podcasting 2.0 for September 2 2022, episode 100 streamers
and dreamers everybody welcome to podcasting 2.0 Your weekly
board meeting for the podcasting next generation. Everything
happening in podcasts index.org Of course any developments with
apps wallets with posts with the most or maybe just stuff that's
going on in podcasts index dot social I'm Adam curry here in
the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. The man
who two years ago today said Sure let's build it. Say hello
to my friend on the other end Mr. Dave Jones one time for the
one time one time for the No, I have removed it I have removed
the air horn oh
you did? Yes. I've divorced ruined it he did overuse it he
did and he screwed it up for the rest of us
he did it was just no good man. No good
are the channels down channels down channel down I think
because the podcast index dot social was blowing up while it
goes like the channels are down. We killed the channels what
happened? I
don't know anything about this is blowing
up bonus up with episode 100.
Oh yeah. Oh my god. Yeah, the stuff that I've seen it all come
in and nothing's broken as far as I can tell. But I do hope
that Tanner helps his listening. Because I don't understand this
value for value stuff. You know, it just doesn't really work.
No, it just doesn't work at all. It's a failed experiment. We
tried. Oh.
Oh, I see what's going on one. Let me just count Let me count
the digits. 1234567
sit Whoa.
1,001,001 SATs from Dred Scott.
Shot Carla 20 is blades on am Paula.
She's got on my channel
status a okay. Oh, we're still we're still five by five we're
in fine as far as I know. Wow. Yeah. And you know, it's so this
is this is a beautiful moment out there's sup Yo sup? One time
for the chimps in the 305 with a 100,000 or one says yeah, this
will go on for this will go on forever.
This is gonna this is not going to end well. This is going to
end with melted nodes is what this is.
Yeah. This is one of the beautiful things of value for
value is the numerology when people it's kind of cool that we
have such large arrays of numbers to play with, you know,
you do 1000 SATs, you can do a lot of fun numbers with that.
Yes, I hear you 15 year olds with the calculator upside down.
But you can do as many as you want. Really, you can have 100
million, that's all fine. But when people just automatically
we didn't say give us 100,000 sat boosts. People just do that
it became a whole thing. This is how it works. Pay attention.
This is how value value functions.
This this is a that is a perfect that's a perfect way to go into
that topic. me because I had I had written this okay. You know,
I wrote a bunch of notes about about a bunch of things but here
here's let's see if you go back to the earliest episodes of this
show compare them to the to what is going on on each episode now.
Yeah. The beat the feedback from the listeners that jingles the
boosts the things that we do none of that was any it was part
of any plan ever. The the the listeners, the producers of the
show, did it they created the show that they want. They know
you have now graduated that I'm curious value for value
University.
Yes, that not including the odd not including the audience in
the show. If you don't make your the audience a part of the show,
then they're your they're never going to feel a part of the show
and they're not going to feel the value connection. Yes,
you're not going
to your mileage will vary significantly. Yes. Yeah.
It's not a gimmick. It's not a gimmick. The listeners create
the show they help you create the show.
And that's where value for value expands from time talent and
treasure because you can you can help in many ways.
See dub says don't consume the content become the content. I
like it. Yeah.
I like it. And you know, I gave it a gave it a stab at bit block
boom on if you had a chance to see it's all He was really,
really low. So I don't know if many people watch the video.
Yes, I saw I watched it in bits and pieces all throughout the
week it was, I couldn't get one consistent time slot to do it.
But no, it was good. It was good. You really
know it's getting tighter, it's getting tighter. You had a lot
you had more
freedom to, to, to do it in there at that conference than
you did at Podcast Movement. You already get such a tight window
there.
Oh, yeah, there was, there was there was no explaining value
for value at Podcast Movement. But this was also a room full of
Bitcoiners. So people who already kind of have an
understanding of time value, you know, these these concepts
that's kind of baked into a Bitcoin owner, which I think is
why it's so attractive to me is like, okay, I get it. So it was
really easy to, I think. Yeah, I mean, it's a big concept for
people. And I think unless you really, that's why I love what
Chiron is doing the value for value podcast, unless you really
pay attention to how this feedback loops work. And I'm
trying to come up with a great acronym. It's basically it's ask
its repeat. Its ask, acknowledge, I want to call
somebody like ours, but I couldn't. So I kind of gave up.
I gave up on trying to name it, once I can name it flow better.
You know, and it's, it's easy to miss what is going on? Because
the main point is, it's yes, it's a way to, if I can just use
the word to monetize. But that's really incorrect because you're
exchanging value, but it's just, you know, it's like, it's like
Venmo just trying to explain something easily monetize, and
it's a content format. And we haven't figured it out for all
for all podcasts, etc. I mean, there's no there's many
different ways of doing it. But the acknowledgement cycle has to
be in there. It's like Texas, slim meat stayed overnight,
whatever it is slim drives from the panhandle to Austin, which I
think is like, like 500 miles or something. And he drives it a
lot. Yeah. So stop off in Fredericksburg. You know, we we
feed his horses and we we we put them up in the bunkhouse
Where does what's the big city in the Panhandle in? Amarillo?
Amarillo. Yes. And with the Cadillacs with the Cadillac,
he's up
there. Yeah, he's up there. And oh, yeah. And so he, you know,
he's, he's running value for value. And this is very
difficult for him because he literally is a cowboy. He grew
up as a cowboy. As a rancher, he rode rodeo and professionally,
he's been around cattle and around just farm all his life.
But he then also got an education in telecommunications,
and he worked in I think telecommunications intelligence
or something. Oh, yes. All Austin is spooky city. And then,
and then after he broke his neck, he got he got into into
food. What do you call foods, what he calls food intelligence
anyway, so he's not a guy that is not in his blood to ask for
money. That's not how it works. But he was able to translate it
to his own personality into a barn raising. Oh, a barn
raising. Yeah, everyone comes out and pitches in. Oh, okay. So
so he got that concept. And then he got $1,000 donation from
somebody, which was the largest he's received so far and said,
Okay, you have to acknowledge this. Yeah, that's a lot of
money. You got to acknowledge it, because that also becomes
aspirational it it sets a bar, it's a community thing. You I
can't explain. We need a psychologist. It just works.
I'm glad you mentioned psychology, because it's so in
this I had a long discussion with with Tanner, he actually
pinged me on or DM me on Twitter. And he does this from
time to time.
You want to explain what what the info the impetus was for
this ping?
You know, I really don't know. I don't, I don't really talk to
him. And we're not
what he wasn't, wasn't it because people were ragging on
his post.
I think this I think he wrote the I think he published the
post, roughly after we had this discussion.
Well, you did a good job,
evidently, but maybe I didn't do as good jobs. But, you know, he
thinks me every now and then just, you know, once in a while
and just talks about being very vague, I think. I think he knows
that he's, I think he knows he's missing something. And I think
there's a there's a mental thing, a disconnect there
because I think he knows him. He's He's missing something
because it's clearly successful. Some and I'm speaking for him
unjustifiably as he sees that it is successful in certain
situations in say, whoa, whoa, why? Well, I think he's being
intellectually honest. You know, as far as his understanding of
the concept will take him. You know, that's as far as I can
say, because I don't I don't
I don't know. I don't I think it's just blockage. It's just
blockage.
I think it is,
I think his bucket and actually, I prayed for Tanner this morning
and like, help him help him see the light. I'm not kidding. I'm
not kidding. I am a leaky bucket on the ship. Now. It's like, I'm
not gonna get mad about this, like, how can I help him see the
light? You know, slim gets it, he had needed a different
paradigm.
I think the hardest part, for a person. Thing who thinks like,
Tanner, as a podcast consultant type in this kind of thing? Is
they say,
there's no money in consulting value for value thing. No, you
answered the questions. You answered the question. There you
go,
is the economics, economics in general, but also, it extends to
podcasting. Economics is not a math problem. It seems that way.
Because, you know, we have to do calculations and keep Ledger's
and stuff
I net. By the way, Dave is an Austrian economist in his spare
time. I know this for a fact.
We, the that is the Austrian principle is the economics is
not a math problem. It's a behavior problem. And when I say
problem, I don't mean like something negative. I just mean
it's a it's a behavioral thing to figure out. It's, it's why of
Ludwig von Mises didn't talk about math, right? Or models. He
talked about praxeology, which is the study of human behavior.
If if I offer if, if I'm a producer, and I offer this offer
this thing or, or this sets, but offer a thing, or this sets of
conditions are true, then what type of behavior is the most
likely outcome? Right? That's the types of questions you ask
about economic things, you don't ask? Well, if you know, p, you
know, p over you know, p over y, you know, on a on a slope of x
equal, that's not the right thing. So when you when you see
somebody who's trying to understand the FBI, and they're
trying, they're putting it into, well, if I have this many
listeners, and I have this meat, you know, and this many are
engaged for this many episodes. And then I can get this sort of
CPM on this ministry. So of course, you've already you've
already met.
Thank you. Thank you, we should have been talking about this. I
know that this is your stance because we talked about it. I
think outside of the show, I'm so glad that you bring this up.
But no matter how much, it's not a math problem, and no matter
how compelling you think the math is, you can write all this
stuff out and it can make perfect sense. I'm telling you,
it doesn't work that way. Ask Michelle Obama, it does not work
that way.
You know, had me up until Michelle Obama, then I kind of
lost shows,
shows that you think you're gonna be successful and have a
certain audience sizes and that Oh, her? Yes. Both the
aggregation in this, again, applies to all of economics.
aggregate numbers are only useful after the fact.
Yeah, it's a modeling trailing indicator,
it is modeling them always fails. That's why central banks
get it wrong. So often, macroeconomics is smoke and
mirrors. It's, it's not something that you can do
forecasting in that way. Is I mean, really, it really all
comes down to this. I think you have to be I'm sorry, go ahead.
I was I was going to say an excellent example of that was
cheerleader Trump. Cheerleader Trump had a way of I believe he
actually moved markets and paths in positive ways because of his
incessant constant reaffirmation and cheerleading of the market.
Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. What you see it in the opposite way. What
happens when the with what was happening predicted yesterday?
was okay, if there's 100,000 print on the jobless number,
then the markets are gonna
fly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And
it's like, that's exactly what you would wouldn't expect to
say. But then the thinking is, okay. Well, if it's a bad print,
you know, on the on the unemployment rate in that means
that the Federal Reserve will be more likely to do quantitative
easing or to go dovish, therefore, stock market, boom.
It's like, right, right, right. That's all behavior. None of
that is math. None of it at all. In it You know, you have, it
really all comes down to us subject, subjective value. These
are the these are economic laws, subjective value, you the value
of a thing is always determined not by you, but by the
individual that's acquiring it. And marginal utility, the more
of a thing you have, the less value you place on each
additional unit of that thing. Those two principles are not
math, their behavior. And if you don't understand that, you'll
never understand value for value, because value for value
relies on those understandings of human behavior to function.
And it's interesting, because what you said there, I would not
have understood if I didn't understand value for value,
because value for value and action, you know, 15 years, by
the way, I was just thinking podcast consultants. I'm going
to start praying for you too, because I have a land I guess
it's a group. I pray for groups come on the podcast in 2.0
people, no agenda, nation, people? I do. Yeah. But you
know, Texas, slim would be separate up, I pray for you all
the time. Keep them alive, Lord. Thank you. But I do I do. But
consultants, I always kind of like because of this problem
that you just highlighted, like, you know, CPMs above I think
becoming a podcasting 2.0 value for value consultant, where you
in perpetuity, or in some scale receive a split of that person's
value block. And I'll take you one step further. You show me
how you teach people value for value as a consultant, and I
will give you an official pod father certification as a value
for value consultant for a sub split of your split, obviously.
But just 1% just one person.
This is like Trump University.
I don't know if it should be offended or not.
Is it's get do a bunch of stuff. And then I'll give you I'll like
certify you like you're also
Yes, Dave, thanks for blowing my cover. But seriously, I mean,
think about why wouldn't you consult someone help them with
value for value, help them hone their pitch help them with, you
know, the reminder, like a newsletter or some way that you
remind people is coming, you know, the social media as a lot
of different things. And then for X period, or whatever it is,
you get put in the value block. And of course, you get your
value based upon how well your client does. This is not a bad
vocation,
that it's actually a genius idea. That's a really good idea.
It's in it's just like, you're you're trying to find an analogy
to that to happen to something because there's got to be stuff
that works that way already, right?
No, no, no, not at all. No, there's no analogy to this. This
is completely new.
All right, let me try to show you this. Sports.
So I don't know anything about this. But okay, sports. Yes.
You could have maybe the analogy is like a sports. So you at the
elite level, you know, sick take somebody like a tiger, would
they those guys still have trainers and coaches? Sure. And
they pay those guys and they get paid good money. The better they
do, the more they get paid.
This is my this is my mistake. John and I are divorced. And
I've been doing this for free with people for a long time.
We're idiots. Of course, we didn't have we didn't have the
mechanism. Now we have the mechanism. This is this is
really interesting. I you know, I'm, I like this.
I like that idea. It's a it's a really good idea. Maybe
Maybe you call it a value for value coach. I mean, that's
probably a more accurate description of what it is. But
But anyway, it's very it's verifiable, that the person has
you in their in their split, you know? I don't know, man, that
just kind of came to me. I'm like, I'm seeing an exit
strategy for myself. I get to 20 podcasts that I'm coaching
negotiating podcast on podcast broker in
Nice. Shall we bring our guests in because I feel like our
guests can contribute very much to today's program, which of
course is not even a program. It's a meeting of the board. And
so of course, I know our guest and I, I've seen I know his
contributions, but I was thinking that hold on a second.
What exactly does this guy do and Sounds like and I looked at
his LinkedIn and which I put a link to, but I'm going to read
verbatim what Dave said. Because I thought this kind of covered
it all. Host of the causality podcast owner of the engineered
network, the developer of the sound biter app, several
boosting scripts, including the cron boost, I think, has 2.0
integrated across all of his shows an early adopter of two
point stuff. And he's an Australian ladies and gentlemen,
please say hello to John Chingy. How's it going? Good day to you,
sir. Early morning for you. I guess. What is it? 730
it is exactly. 730. Yes. So, thanks for having me on, guys.
It's it's a thrill to be on here. It really is. Especially
on show 100 That's kind of blown me away. From the beginning. Oh,
man.
Did you bring up a present?
I I'll just shove it down the microphone. Hang on.
Yeah, me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He has that Australian radio guy
humor. Were you in radio ever John?
Not not radio. Right. Not broadcast radio? No. But my
radio? Not exactly. I've been an amateur radio operator for
forever.
Bros 20 threes, ya know, right.
I kind of watch. What's your calls? VK 40 Double ly.
Fortunately, K for DWI. You'll have to double i Yeah, you'll
have to go back through the archives. Unfortunately, I had a
long long running conversation with my significant other
regarding putting up antennas in my yard. And it didn't did not
go my way. So yes, some some things may have lapsed, but I
have every intention of reviving them shortly. But that's another
story. Yeah, I
I just I just made sure we got a bigger yard. I haven't set
anything up yet. But that come I think every every Ham has that
has that conversation. I haven't logged into QR zed.com. So long
as you see if you're gonna have photos on your on your profile
page. I'm a nerd. I'm a nerd.
What is the big what's the big antenna? The one that just takes
up so much space? Is that a two meter?
No, that'd be more like 10 meter. I'm sorry. 40 meter or,
God forbid, 80 meter is you have
to stretch to use. They we used to always the way we do a
distress the wire between like two trees in the backyard. It'd
be this bit take up half the yard.
Yep, I used to have a G five RV, which was a multiband dipole.
And it was it was pretty good. And I tried doing an inverted L
for 160 meters because I was truly insane. And I ended up I
grabbed a capacitor out of an old TV set and I was using to
try and shoot it. Yeah, I didn't stop to think that maybe the
voltage there was a little high and I had up on the webbing of
my hand was
gonna say like that can be like 10,000 volts or something some
crazy. Yeah, yes, I
have a little scar on the webbing of my hands. So that was
not a real ham until you've had RF burn or something like that.
We've We've all had that. And we all suddenly if I feel really
weird. It's one of those moments. Like half a kilowatt.
It's like, how do you? What kind of tingly? Okay, let's unki Oh,
okay, maybe we should look
at what's going on here. Something is wrong.
Very funny. Good times.
But anyway, I've been wanting to have you on the show forever.
John. Cuz I mean, you've you went into with both feet like so
early and just you have full on you embrace the running with
scissors ethos. Pretty much right off the bat.
I'm Brian embraced it before you coined the phrase. Yes, you
did. You conceptualized it, if not quite even if you didn't
coin it. So yeah, no, you you started. Let's see we started
Wii for Wii U, or one of the the first Wii for Wii, a value tag
podcasts. I mean, you had to have been in the first, maybe
five?
Yeah, I think it was in the first maybe 10 or so maybe does
first doesn't. So I started I look back, and I was when did I
actually do my first post on it was in December of 2020. And so
I then just for just for the hell of it. I look through my
and I guess that's my position is that I own the whole stack.
So I like I host my own feed. I host in air quotes. I mean, it
goes by Cloudflare. So you know, there's that but you know,
anyway, so I used to go Hugo as a static file generator, and I
wrote all my templates and everything. And so I kind of
control the whole stack. So I don't have to ask or wait for
Lipson or
are you an email? Are you an emacs guy?
Oh, come on,
but but I don't like VI and I much prefer nano but this may
Yes. Sorry. No,
you have to win. You have to understand that I grew up in
Marvel of these guys who would just be their fingers are flying
and I'm just looking at the screen and like, this is like
magic. And I spent years dropping it picking it up
picking it up. And by the time I finally got a little proficient
everyone's like glad nano bitch.
Well, I will have to say, John, I saw a interview with John
Carmack recently. And he is using Visual Studio so I don't
was and he was recently asked about like the Emacs and he's
like, he's like I tried it. I just can't get into it. I'm fine
with the you know, with being a Frou Frou Adiga not? I do not
need that in my life. Okay, I don't need RC files in my life.
So are you doing video? That's because you were fine.
Yeah, I did. Okay, you know, like, like, I have too many
podcasts I've done, I started a lot of them, right, you know.
And so I tried the same thing with video. And I thought, hey,
I could do a video podcast and do value for value on that as
well. And so earlier this year, it was actually over the
Christmas break, I had the brainwave for inspiration. And I
did this little spin off, I guess you could call it a
pragmatic called pragmatic electric. And there are a whole
bunch of very short, like, three to eight minute long videos,
post them on the website, put them up with a with a video
enclosure in the feed, and all the vapor value stuff and such.
And I also put them up on my YouTube channel. But of course,
you know, that wasn't really the intent I wanted to set. So I
test the waters and it got some, you know, downloads I guess, but
really wasn't all that popular. So I haven't got back to
unlimited five episodes and left it there. So I might come back
to it.
You have podcast debris is?
Yes. So I had a I had a look through my XML file and I looked
at all the different tags I've added and actually you surprised
myself. So just to list them out. I've added locked Funding
Value good social trailer license, medium chapter
soundbite images, location, transcript and person. Nice. As
always, yeah, because why not? Right. Yeah. Because I've been
podcasting since 2012. Ish. Although my first efforts were
terrible. That's okay. I've gotten better with age. Anyway,
I'd like to I'd like to think so. And when I came across
podcasting, two point I was racking my brain is how did I
come across this? I just came across it somehow on the
fediverse. I don't know how I'm just glad. It was about I joined
about episode six. And then I listened to the back catalogue.
And I've kept up with every week ever since. And I'm like, Oh,
that's a great idea. I could add that. Oh, that's a great idea. I
can add that. And I just, you know, yeah, it just kind of
snowballed. And yeah, there you go.
When you don't have customers, and you can you own the whole
stack. It's so free. That's do whatever you want.
That was always our business plan.
Yeah, don't have any customer. No customers.
They don't pay us. They're not really customers.
That's right. So what is your so we were talking before you
entered the border and what what is your, on the vif on the value
for value thing? Like? You integrate it into your show?
Your show is your show is different. It's it's unique.
And, like, how do you I don't I don't want to open ask an open
ended question like how do you conceptualize V for V is more
like, I'm trying to understand what how you how you determine
how that you're going to put it into the pitch or make it part
of your show? Because I like, I like how you do it. I mean, you
know, I'm a big fan of your stuff. But what how do you as a
host want. Let me step back for a second. One reason I'm really
wanting to have you on the show is because you're technical, but
you're also a podcast host. And you're a podcaster. And we don't
we don't really hear we don't have podcasters on the show very
often, that we have really more more deep technical, like
coders. And since you're both inhale, it's it's nice to hear
what your perspective is from a podcaster side of things of
value for value instead of just on the technical side.
Okay. Well, I guess the thing is that I I never thought of it or
saw it as value for value by name necessarily, but it's
something that I know that there has been referred to that way a
lot by you guys. And Adam, of course, historically, it's
something that's sort of become a an ethos of sorts, I guess.
But the point is that, prior to me integrating all this stuff, I
did have sort of loose feedback mechanisms, I guess you could
say and like if you want to support Shokan suppose on
Patreon, I started a Patreon in 2015. When I launched the
engineer network, as a concept, I guess you could call it more
than anything And when I did that, I said, Look, I'll give
you guys like anyone who's a platinum sorry, hang on not
platinum, silver producer. And above all, they will get
acknowledgment like so I thank them every episode that sort of
like an acknowledgement, the acknowledgement component of the
vase value. And it when when this VI vi came along, I hadn't
really come across Bitcoin, I mean, I knew what it was, I just
didn't dig into it. And you guys inspired me to dig into it. So I
built my node and, and I started to realize that what I was doing
for the longest time was kind of a very loose, slow, very
platform dependents. Kind of value for value thing. Because
if I'm, if I'm going through Patreon, and Patreon decide, oh,
you know what, John, we don't like what you said on this
episode, because let's say I do an episode of causality. And
it's about, I don't know Exxon Mobil, or I don't know. And it's
critical of them. And they say, oh, you know, we don't like this
guy. And we're just going to D platformed. me off of Patreon.
I've lost all of my patrons, and I've lost a decent chunk of my
income. So when I saw value for value, and I thought about, I'm
like, Well, you know what, this would basically sidestep that
issue completely, because it would be almost impossible. I
say, almost impossible. Anything's possible if you're
really motivated, but far more difficult, which is why I like
it when Adam says it's censorship resistant, is
resistant, yes, non immune, but definitely resistant to those
sorts of deep platforming attempts. And when I brought it
on, I just found it was a natural fit, just to simply
extend that and so I'm, for example, now, Dave, you started
supporting causality through repeating cron boosts. And by
the way, thank you for that script inspired me to write my
domain, we're using our G RPC. But the, the idea is that now
I've added you as well, because I have a script that then looks
for that and says, yep, that's the monthly There you go. And I
add that to every show read now. And that's the feedback
mechanism. So okay, I don't know if that answered the question or
not. But I see. It fitted nicely to be honest with what I was
doing, and it's just made it better.
So was it was the prime motivator there? Because I'm,
there's two parts to the value for value, was the prime
motivator, the censorship resistance? Or do you also see a
benefit to not structuring levels for people and leaving it
free and open?
I do like that as well. I guess I so I saw, okay, it's a really
good question. I have multiple tiers in my Patreon. And I did
that so that people could feel like they could support at any
level that they felt. But the problem is that they're still
predefined levels. And ultimately, you can't tell
someone what something's worth, which is what you've just talked
about before. And so the value of it also gives people the
complete, ultimate flexibility to contribute whatever they want
on an infinitely granular scale, which is brilliant. And you
can't really do that, because you can't have an infinite
number of tears and Patreon. But you can with a devalue, so to
speak.
Yeah, that's one of the things that we're talking about in, in
this conversation that I had with the, with Tanner was that,
you, you it's about eliminating the floor and the ceiling. It
really is like, when you I don't think this is hard for people to
I think get their head around is that when you have a set price
on something, it's not like, there's an illusion of control,
where you can say, where you say, Well, I'm extracting this
value from the from the listener, or from the, you know,
consumer would or whatever. But this really doesn't work like
that. Because if the price isn't right, they just won't buy it.
And so, like it within the market, that's, that goes back
to the marginal utility aspect. And that, that I think, is part
the subjective value part of it, I think is easy to understand
them where the listener assigns the value, the marginal utility
part is harder to understand, I think, you know, in the concept
there for people that don't know that term is that when you ask
yourself the question, not why would you buy something? But why
would you keep buying? Why would you keep buying more of a thing?
So something like, let's just say that you have, you go to the
grocery store, and the hot dogs are on sale, and you buy in
there on sale for half price? So instead of buying one pack of
hot dogs like you normally would you buy two? The question is why
wouldn't you buy three or four? Or five? Like why would you stop
buying them if they're a really good price? And the answer is
because every time with every additional pack that you buy
every additional unit, your your value, your your perceived value
of that thing, or your value you place on every additional unit
goes down. That's the marginal utility and In the the fact that
there's 4 million podcasts out there, there's always something
this, there's always something you can listen to next, there's
no lack of content. So how do you get your listener to not
only value your content, but see it as unique as something that
is, it's not just another pack of hot dogs in that's, that's
where removing all the barriers, removing this sort of artificial
ceiling and artificial floor pre creates a range, this huge
window, where any perceived value can be rewarded, not just
predefined levels where you say, okay, in order to get, you know,
in order to show me value, give me value back, you have to hit
this threshold or this other threshold, which are arbitrary,
you, you remove the barriers, and then you show the listener,
the uniqueness and the value proposition that you have. I
think that's probably the harder part to understand. But when you
when, like, when you do like the cron job, here's here's the way
I saw that when I wrote that thing, and started sending out
cron job boost. I was a hand Magic Mouse with you. I love
causality. It's one of my favorite podcasts is moment on
top three. And I was afraid that you would stop. I was afraid
that if I don't support John, because they because I know that
you Your show is very unique, it gives gives information that I
can't get anywhere else from an expert in the field. And also,
that it takes a long time and a lot of prep. I mean, it takes
you I don't know how many hours to prep in an episode of
causality, but it's clearly a lot. And I'm like, You know
what, this will burn somebody out. If I don't reward him, he
may stop doing it at some point. And the longer it goes, the
reward is actually going to go up, because I'll get more afraid
of that.
Yeah, it's yeah, I look, I really do appreciate it. And I
appreciate I'm grateful that I have people that are fans of, of
causality, you know, as much as you are. I hear what you're
saying and the situation with why would I give what I stopped
doing or what I get burned out? The truth is, I already had kind
of had that burnout moment back in early 2015. And I actually
stopped podcasting for nearly six months. And because I used
to do pragmatic every week and ice do similar at similar levels
of prep, my record was 40 hours of prep for an episode. And I
was doing a day job and I had young kids. And it was it was
not a good situation. So I had to just sort of like take a
pause. So the cadence I've tried to go for is every month and
doing a monthly show, because weekly at that level of detail
that like the level of quality I want to have in my in my shows,
I need to put that time in. I feel like I need to I sorry, I
can't not do it. So but yeah, I mean, and the great thing about
the way that they value has been set up with booster grams and
streaming sets. And now we've got, you know, cron boosting,
for example, for regular repeated boosting is you've got
the ultimate flexibility you can choose how to support your shows
the way that you want to. And I think that that is something
that is just not available anywhere else.
Oh, man, I love listening to you nerds. I wanted to throw
something on the table that kind of hit me it's really simple.
And I think kind of came bubbling up for me during our
time in Dallas. Like wow, we need more people developing apps
and we need to somehow communicate that they're there.
This is the hard part. I believe there's a market for some other
podcast listening experiences. And one that comes to mind is
what I'm calling the OMA app. And if you speak old Texan,
German Texan, OMA is the grandma. And and it's an when I
envision this because I see it all the time on on TV. It's like
look at this phone. It has huge buttons and has a really loud
speakerphone. Like the jitterbug. Yes. Yeah. Like that,
like the jitterbug. Okay. There's a significant audience
that is just struggling a little bit. Because it's still just a
little bit too. Most of the screens are busy, there's clips
and there's all kinds of features. I'm talking something
really, really simple. Yeah, like, just simpler than anything
we have. I just feels like there's there's a market there.
And I kind of know this because there's there's people who are
60 and up there trying to, you know, they listen to a Korean
zookeeper which is surprising it DNS turns out, and they're
really struggling in the trial. And as I can see, it's just
there's just too many options too many triple button, you
know, triple dot menus that are hidden. It's just not a normal
discovery mode for I think, a very large group.
What? what's your what's your daily driver podcast app? John,
to put you on the spot?
Well, I actually have two now. So Brian to podcasting 2.0 I
used overcast. But since podcasting 2.0 apps have
essentially matured and support the whole value of anything I
now run to so anything it's a as a streaming value app, I play
through cost thematic, and anything else that isn't goes
through overcast because yeah, I just, yeah, just thematic.
Yeah, I'm the same way a go up pretty much live in cast ematic.
And then I bounce over to overcast when I need to. And I
think I think what I like about caster Matic may be what you're
talking about Adam. It's the the touch points. And a real big in
its it just feels less cluttered and busy.
Crap. Yeah, this is the one I really don't use because I'm no
longer I have no longer have apple in my life project at
Apple for my life. Interesting, okay, that I can dig one up
somewhere and check it out. But besides that, I just feel that
there. It's unexplored. I don't want people to get caught. I
don't want to be bashful about you know, some other crazy idea
you might have, particularly as we're gonna hopefully talk about
music.
Yeah. I'm gonna make you want to talk about that. Let's go. Let's
go for it. Have you had some ideas this week? And I talked to
the dystopia guys, last week, and I feel like we have a lot of
I feel like we have a lot of routes to music in. I'm not sure
how to make it go faster.
Yeah, this is what I've thought about. Okay. So first of all, we
have as far as I know, one app that has a music interface,
curio caster, I don't know if there's any other and I also
don't, I think this should be a separate app. You know, Spotify
is having a hard time putting podcasting into music. Why would
music into podcasting be any any easier? That's just me. I'm not
a developer. So I'm just laying out what I think would work for
a really didn't hit me until I realized how big how over
capitalized and what a shit show. SoundCloud is, man, you
gotta look at the you gotta look at him we
keep talking about they're like corporate structure was messy or
something. Oh, my God, this so much. So much money has gone
into this. And of course, what happened is he had let me just
look it up for you. SoundCloud, Spotify, it is perhaps one of
the largest collections of music in the world. But as it was,
it's been completely mismanaged. As I said, over capitalize, it
just listened to it's like, so many so much money went to this
hundreds of millions of dollars. And it was got huge. When it got
really big. When not then the record labels they tried to get
in, they bought another 75 million here 75 million their
purchase, but not now. It's just a thing that just sit there sits
there. And it's kind of has no future here, but what they have
is RSS feeds with enclosures. So here's this thing. And shoot, I
just close it. If you look at the stats of how many artists
and I mean, it's kind of like everybody, I think every artist
still has one or they still upload their. You know what I
mean? It's like one of those things. You still have one,
don't you?
Yeah, it's like it's like a, it's like a MySpace account or
so. Exactly.
Exactly. But you know how it works, you know how to upload
it. So if someone wants to 2.0 enable their music, and this is
hundreds of millions of artists. It's crazy how many people on
this thing. If they haven't already. In their settings, they
have to enable RSS feed, enable the RSS feed. And then the next
step would be an onboarding similar to podcast or wallet
except two things have to happen. And this is what I
wanted to discuss because, you know it's a shim, but unlike
Like, when we started with podcasting 2.0, you know, the
hosting companies, they had the RSS feed, they had the
enclosures, we put the shim in the value the value block shim
into the into the index. If we can add a shim, that when
someone claims their, their music wallet, that then we flip
the bit on the medium tag to music, so every app now can
recognize Okay, and then hopefully, that would drive if
not SoundCloud itself, other places like this topia and other
music sites to start generating 2.0 compatible feeds with the
medium tags set to music, and then then I think we're off to
the races. Then how hard is it for when amp to implement some
of this stuff? You know, I was like, Come on people, let's get
some energy into this shit.
Well, the the problem, the only problem?
The only issue is why there's two of us. Yes.
The only the only issue is that there would have to be some sort
of you can't assume that everything on SoundCloud has
music, because it's not. So the SoundCloud can be anything. I
mean, there's lots of spoken word podcasts that are on
SoundCloud. Just
then you can say, you can say it does. Does your feed contain
music tracks? And then you I mean, yeah, you obviously you
make it a choice? Because yes, some people actually use that as
a podcasting platform. They have entire instructions on how to
get your SoundCloud podcast into iTunes. So I think we if we hand
them that one extra bit at their responsibility, of course, then
we can start developing music apps or start integrating music
apps from from the index.
What would that look like? So that would that look like on
onboarding them in the same way? There's like a podcast or
wallet? Yeah,
exactly the same way could it could be an app itself, we just
like, like fountain does it interacting with us? And then
you say, and then there's just this extra question that says,
Is this a music podcast?
Yeah, and explain it. You know, this means each each. Each entry
in your, in your feed is a music track.
Okay. There's something out there. There's also something
out there that can, by the
way, why don't we put that into input into podcaster wallet to
just add that right in there? If someone has a podcast that using
a podcast host and they want to flip the bit to to music? Give
them that opportunity?
Okay, yeah, so you're saying leave it, almost like leave
everything the same? And then just say,
under the hood, yeah. But we need a different hood. We if we
go down the road of now you can do music and podcasts is it's
not a good story. I don't believe that's the way to go. I
think we need fresh ideas, fresh music, music players, music
apps. Don't try to confuse the two don't make it podcast or
wallet now also for music. Drive everyone towards the music
stuff. It's the same thing on the back end. It's just you
understand what I'm saying? If we're gonna do music, it has to
be it has to be kind of divorced from podcast. For it for people
to understand.
There needs to be a different app. Yeah, well, different
apps, but also a different way to to claim your wallet is just
a different music to point out whatever whatever we call it
music wallet.
As musicians wallet. Yeah, it's
doing the same thing underneath. Yeah, with a split editor so
that they can put their writer composer musicians who played
etc. Yeah, it'll need explaining. It'll need writing.
None of which we're good at.
Speak for yourself. We're great. I'm great at it.
No, no, your job is to build terrible Your job is to build
snazzy UI. That's your jobs.
Yes. It makes you well then well,
wow factor that UI wow factor.
There's like 140,000 Spotlight just posted. There's like
140,000 SoundCloud feeds in the index. That's, that's a large
corpus of the material to
that would be pretty good. Now. Now if we can reach out to those
people or, you know, once we need an app, someone needs to, I
mean, I think Steven B is working on something dedicated.
It can be a web app, you know, as long as we get started with
something, this is what we saw. We saw podcasting 2.0 and all
its glory really start to take off Very early on, actually. And
we had Martin from pod friend, he gave it a try, and it just
didn't work. And it's very hard to build an RSS feed generated,
particularly one that imports an existing feed. And Steven B, he
fucking grinded through it.
And then he went through all the terrible parts and got to a
finished product peak.
And he got he got out the other end. And he's got some scrapes
and bruises smells a little funky. But but it's it's that I
think once we could create our once we were eating our own dog
food on the on this show in particular, then it really
started to work, it really started to sing. And once
anybody could just check out a feed and mess with it and create
a pirated, feed and put chapters in it and upload it to anchor.
You know, that's when stuff, I think that's really when stuff
took off. So to have just as easy conversion for SoundCloud.
And then moving forward, I can see hosting companies doing
this, it'll be this, it'll be the same path. But this is this
is the way forward for a lot of this stuff. And I think people
are just now starting to see we're really at the cusp. I
thought we were not we're really at the beginning of this if
people getting it.
So the SoundCloud thing is is there. Do they on their side, go
through the process of making sure that it's not copyrighted
content? And yeah, they do all that work. Yes,
this is the beauty of it. That is the beauty as a police it,
you know, but they also have licenses and they have licenses,
I think, where you can add stuff to your mix your hip hop mix, or
your samples that you put in. And that's, that's what's so
great about it. And they already went through all the I remember
this too, they went through all the hassle of setting up the
somewhere I even I was interviewed, I think for the New
York Times, I said this is great. This is great what
they're doing. And then you know, I don't know what
happened, but it was didn't get bought, get bought resold
refinance is a shitshow. But it's sitting there as this big
behemoth just waiting to be tapped 140,000 feeds man, if all
people had to do is just claim their wallet and and say yeah,
music boom, you got a pretty good, a pretty good base there.
And musicians, they inherently understand value for value, I
think.
On a certain level there used to there used
to be a core. So yes, this is
as all artists are, in some way.
So I'll just keep revisiting this. Because until someone does
I know we have what maybe you have a 3030 feeds in there that
have medium equals music set.
Yes, not a lot. So once that goes up is a good, it's a
sandbox. I mean, we it's enough to work with that to say thank
you, you know, I think this can be I think there may be a chance
to automate this. And I mean, to a certain extent that I don't
mean I don't mean getting I don't mean going crazy with it.
No but snip snip as you get. I'll be Flippity flop flop.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking flippety flip flip
snip, like there's your lb Flippity flop flop.
So there's gotta be a way to to look at the sound file, the look
at a sound file and say, Okay, this is spoken word. This is
music. I mean, the waveforms are completely different, right?
There's got to be a way to automate that.
Yeah, but why not just do it. Just having it work is missing
the point. If we don't have someone getting in there,
getting into a wallet and setting that up and starting to
see the beauty of plays coming in, then I think we
I get you on that point. I'm just saying that like if
somebody to take if you can onboard a person, and then they
don't have to make a decision. Like you don't have to go
through the process of explaining is this mute? Is this
music and when I say Music What I mean is Is it a music? Is it a
show that has music as tracks instead of a show about music?
You don't have to go through all that stuff. It's just like boom,
boom, boom, no, or whatever. You know, I
disagree. We need to turn it around. We need to we need to
put that up front. This is for music tracks. Yeah. That's it
don't ask convoluted questions don't this is from music tracks.
Okay, here's here's a better intro better explanation. It's
basically
it's just it's just a it's like a button you have to press after
you've already asked to come in. Okay. I mean, it's you don't you
don't need to explain at all if you're coming from SoundCloud
just ordered for this.
It's already down this hill. So what Yeah,
clearly.
What I say what I'm trying to say is can Could you could you
like To double check them or something and say you onboard
them and you're like, this music pod, wallet something.com or
something, you bring them you bring a person in, and then it
says, or podcast or wallet itself says, Oh, hey, this these
tracks looks like music. Is this a music podcast?
Oh, okay. Oh my god, where did you go to Silicon Valley on your
way back from Dallas? Did you stop off at the at the Frou Frou
farm?
Yeah. Okay, I get understand that you're now insulting me
because I insulted you by calling Trump University. So
here's what I'm trying to say. Okay. In order I believe I could
be wrong in order for this to be successful. This needs to be
divorced, not technically, not developmentally, but but
musician and listener wise, has to be divorced even from the
word podcast. Yeah, it's not a part of the podcast index. It is
under the hood. But it's it's, you know, value for value eyes,
your music already on soundcloud.com? Oh, okay. What
do I do? You get this wallet over here. Okay. And now, how do
I prove that this is me? And you know, we have to see if they
have owner emails. I don't know. I haven't even looked that far.
And then good to go. Yes. One last step. Make sure that this
is only music tracks, yes, click boom done. You're working. It
has to be if we if we roll it in to podcasting, and podcasting
2.0 I think it's a mistake. It doesn't mean that I see these
coming together later in my grand scheme, where I can play
music on my podcast, and put a portion of that into my value
split to pay. The artist is going to come back together.
That's the vision I see.
Yep, I agree. I've just been sitting and thinking about this
on the side as you've been describing. No, I'm sorry.
We had a guest. Yes. Oh, Hi, there. I'm sorry. I'm passionate
about this.
Oh, no, I love it. It's all good. I mean, this is just a
paraphrase. There's two gaps. The first gap is how do you
enable any musician to get a musician wallet on any hosting
platform that start with SoundCloud, as easy as possible,
we have a shim for that we reuse it, but we have to rename it.
And then the second one is, the problem with the apps at the
moment is that they're all podcasting focused, it would not
be too much additional work to take an existing app that's
focused on podcasts and just clone that and rebrand it and
then focus it a little bit more on the features you're looking
for out of a music app. One of the things and if you do both of
those things, then you enable you close both of those gaps.
And then that, that inspires more musicians to give it a
shot. And I think that that is necessary for us. We have to
solve both problems. Before it will really take off but without
the shim, you can't even you they have to, you'd have to say
them. You have to host on this platform using these tools.
Otherwise, it's the only way to get a wallet. So yeah,
absolutely agree.
It may go further than that, though, John. And may it may go
to the point of I'm not sure that this even is you almost
have to you have to have the app first. Yeah. This this music app
has
to yes, you're absolutely right. And which is why I say we have
you know, Steven B and curio caster, and I think he's working
on something but I completely it kind of has to. I mean, let's
let's retrace our steps. What was the first app that came
online? Well, we had was the first one that came online. Day
was it as opposed friend pod friend? I'm thinking with
with all we had we were with value failure with that? Yeah,
that was wild.
swings, of course, was the first one. Yes, yes. Yes. So we had an
existing system, which, well, there's an excellent example of
something that should have worked had all the elements, but
it was never branded as such. It was, well, this is something
else. This is not a podcast later. Yeah. Yeah, it was a
channel. Yeah, exactly. So. So that's why it was hard to make
that it had all the right data, you could have rejiggered that
thing, and put everything upside down and made it a podcast app.
And I think, forget about the issues of how they manage
channels and wasn't really set up to do this with
micropayments. But you're absolutely right, someone has to
really hunker down and get something that is compelling.
But also, I mean, I see these, like when HAMP, you know,
they're still developed that thing. Yeah, there's great
install base and lots of older software that can just
completely come back to life. Does that make sense? I didn't
mean to insult you, Dave. I'm sorry. I
didn't know he didn't know I did not feel that was just
I felt like I had to make it clear that it's weird because
where are we going to talk about it here who's going to be
working on it? Same people You
know, if I'm talking if I'm talking like a Silicon Valley
douche, it's all with this. Well, you're well, within your
rights to call me doesn't go into the floor for that. I fully
expect, I would think less of you if you did not. I think that
the app, this is a big ask because the apps are secure. And
he has to write them. Somebody has to write a, a podcast music
app. And like, I think you could do it. You could get a head
start on it, because there's already open source code. That
part of the other side, and this sort of gets back to. To John to
you as well. Is part of the beauty of part of podcasting.
2.0 is a project is that it has spawned so much open source
code. So pod verse is completely open source and go. What is the
any anytime podcast player is completely open source? That's
what is that your dog is mine letter that your dog? Oh,
that's, that's my dog. Okay, that's banjo. In the meantime,
player is also completely open source is based on flutter. And
so that's what breeze used to pull in. There's a lot of code
out there that could be taken and repurposed into a podcasting
music app. And
I'd say that the choice you'd want to make early on is do you
just want to make a kick ass app that understands what to do? Or
do you want to also do the onboarding part. And I would
personally recommend not to do the onboarding part just yet.
But if I mean, I can't speak on your behalf day, but I think we
could certainly fork off the podcaster wallet into something
that then also sets the music, the medium flat tag to music,
that could be ready to onboard we can test it I mean, you know,
we get a SoundCloud account, if we can test it, if it works,
then you know, we'll do our job and hopefully someone else will
will jump in or find somebody or upgrade an older player. There's
gotta be stuff out there that can do this.
Yeah, there's I think so. You know, I'm never gonna we're
never gonna write an app or anything like that. It's just
not we're not No No, the only thing we're ever gonna do we
need we need somebody else to do we're going to do index the
stuff and in in ideas and but we need somebody else to do this.
Oh, yeah,
definitely. My grand vision and it's really comes into view is
if we have that part if we have musicians understanding value
for value 2.0 feeds the reason the what we're missing in the
music industry today is what the radio industry got for free.
Radio doesn't yes, they pay ASCAP BMI blanket license, you
know, it's a portion of their revenue. That's all they pay the
not to pay artists and not to pay record companies. It's only
the Performing Rights Organization. And that's how
music is brought to the forefront. It's it's promoted by
people who are either part of like a top 40 format and you're
you're you're playing what's what's popular anyway. Or you
have your college radio, you know, kind of experimental
alternative, these are all things that used to live within
our culture, and that with Spotify and, and really with
file sharing, that role went away. And that has now been
picked up by two companies. But the main one is tick tock. And
all they do is they're in you know, they I think I'm going to,
I can't prove it, but I'm pretty sure they make deals to promote
certain things over and over again, but you just go ahead and
look every single, even you know, like Diana Ross has to
have a tick tock these days, the record companies demand it. So
we can bring that back and say, Hey, and we can put these
mechanisms to some degree into verifiable stuff like I played,
I played your song on my show to anybody who either listens to
the whole show, or maybe just that, that segment of time,
which I could map to your value block. I mean, these types of
things will become really possible and then we can really
promote music again. Music podcasts are non existent for
this very for this simple licensing reason, which we I
think we'll be able to solve with some of this.
I can tell you, I had any experience the other day, we
were in a sandwich shop. Me and my family went Monday night to
little sandwich shop down the street and ate. And they were
playing we were the only ones there. They were playing some
music. And I was talking to tell them listen, my wife was like,
you know, oh, this is your jam. You know, this is a band she
liked. And then it hit me all the sudden I'm like, Oh man, I
hope they're paying their license out their pain and ask
because at least two other restaurants around town recently
within the past year I've gotten hit hard. You Yeah, for play for
playing it over the piece and I'm like, man, what? And it just
made me so aggravated like, wow, sucks, man, the state of things
sucks. And if, if there was a,
okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make you happy. I'm gonna make you
real happy. Sweet. Okay, so instead of looking at your file,
oh, I think you meant music. So we will get to a point where
people are streaming value for value music in their bar. And
people will be able to sit there and go, Hey, I really liked this
song. Your phone will be able to identify what song it is. And
then you can boost them right away.
That Silicon Valley, you said I was went through so
I'm trying to see JaJuan cool. He didn't say cool about your
shit. Yeah, of course, because I'm a dreamer would be very, why
not? But think of, can we talk about the stats package? We saw
that someone showed us, Dave. Talk about that. I get I'm
sorry, man. Are we under NDA? Anyway, we saw a value for value
statistics package, which showed a timeline and showed how many
people know what was listening were dropped off boosts with
booster grams, the whole exactly what you'd want to see. I mean,
now just imagine if you shift some of these ideas, and you've
got that timeline. And you can see what song was popular
because you know, there was more more boost to gram or boost
activity during that time is mind boggling what we can do.
But we have to bring the music in. And if you think podcasters
are tedious, and they don't get shit and try musicians.
Yeah, I can only imagine. But here's here's the thing I still
have yet to understand is do any actual human beings work at
SoundCloud? Because
they probably not. Very few think. I
think it may just I think it may just be on autopilot at this
point. I think there may be. Yeah, yes. It's AI. It's like
two guys. Yeah,
it's very possible. And it's a big accounting office. I'll tell
you that. It's
all accountants, it's all accountants. There's nobody in
tech anymore. And they don't know that they're not there.
They just left. And all the accountants think that the data
guys are still there. They're
just little little simulators on their mouse and keyboards that
makes it looks like they're still alive.
It's like the you know, wiggle the mouse every now and then. I
think this No, I'm 100%. I'm 100% SoundCloud
has evolved from a traditional online streaming platform to an
entertainment company with premium offerings, including
advanced Audience Insights, playlists, pitching tools, and
promotional marketing resources for its users. SoundCloud was
the first streaming service to adopt the and implement a user
centric payment model for artists called Fan powered
royalties. No la fan power fan, five, I found
a way to say second,
I know I'm bad.
The plot is, but this article does say Did they hope to be
profitable in 2023? Yeah,
good luck. So they got a Series A was two and a half million
euros and then somewhere down here, SoundCloud announced in
January 2014. It had commenced licensing negotiations with
major music companies to address the matter of unauthorized
copyrighted material regularly appearing on the platform.
denouncement followed a round of funding in which 60 million was
raised resulting in a $700 million valuation. So they're
not so they're not even a unicorn you suckers. Let me see.
2017 SoundCloud announced layoffs went wrong wrong. It had
to reach $170 million greement for some bullcrap. Let's see
where they are now. 2021 They announced a new pay model. Oh,
that is the fan powered royalties. Let me see.
I think a couple of months ago they Annette or maybe last month
they announced layoffs. No, no doubt. Well, that's where that's
when the rest of that team people.
Canadian electronic music producer Vincent earnings jumped
to $600 a month up from 120 a month under the pooled revenue
model. Hey, that's a rip off that whole thing sucks. You can
do better with value for value than 120 bucks a month. Oh yeah.
Oh my goodness. For sure. And and they they've I mean, we
don't have to worry about anything everything else it's
all set. So I think we just figured out how to entice
people. You know what, once it's up and running, we go into those
wiki pedia and we just edit this wiki pedia trust me it works.
Put in there and podcasting 2.0 music
the wood. So John, I can imagine sound biter. Yeah, for for me
for music. I mean, like, you know, that whole idea where you
take, you've got your catalogue, there you go. And you'd let your
fans create sound bites and give them splits. There you go for
for snippets of music that you can use for discovery.
Hardly, yeah, why not? Why don't
we solved all problems with the world? Gentleman, this is great.
It's so proud.
I just, I just want to add one more thing, Adam to the idea of,
of making sure it's a music focused app, because I was
thinking as you're talking about what, and I don't want to hold
apple up necessarily as the this is what we should all do kind of
thing, but cast your mind back to when everything was in
iTunes. And if you wanted to do music, podcasts, you know, file
transfers, absolutely. Everything was in iTunes. And
then they split it out to a music app and a podcast app and
an end and they separated them all out. And the research
suggested that people when they want to go and do something,
they want to go to the app that is specifically tailored for
gas, because listening to music is subtly different from
listening to an audio book, which is slightly different from
a podcast, like I was thinking speed skipping, for example, you
don't want to do that. And in music, that's a function that
doesn't make any sense. Right, you know, is a pig's eye
absolutely needs to be tailored?
And actually, oh, no, totally. And, you know, there's things
that need to be worked on such as, you know, chapters, that's
now of course, covers, and it can be include lyrics, captions,
or transcripts, you know, we need to I don't know how the
services do with getting lyrics, but you need to be able to
simply throw your lyrics in somewhere and synchronize it
with with the song I mean, there's all kinds of stuff that
can be worked on. But everything is there, the namespace once we
the medium tag is what really did it as genius. That is, that
is the thing, and we've got all the infrastructure set up
everything is good to go. And man, can we have a lot of fun
once we figure this out?
Will you take this Alex Alex for solve this problem? Yes, a long
time ago, and yes, it and solve this with for no agenda tube,
and saw that this was also going to be a music issue, because we
can, you know, two years from now or a year from now, or
whenever this happens, we can say the we can just take this
exact discussion and rehash it for audiobooks. And just do
like, because it's going to be the same thing. Yep. It's going
to be you know, audio, movies,
documentaries, books, you know, we'll we'll need PDF readers, e
readers, whatever, totally, it works. Well. Now, when I'm not
when I'm unsure of is how the Ask will work in music. You know
how you reward people, but I think that's where we can.
That's where groovy little widgets like leaderboards and
super fan posters, and that's where it boosted grams, making
them public may make sense. I mean, there's all kinds of stuff
has to be experimented with is there's no there's no right or
wrong way to do it. Because if you're not getting any SATs,
you're doing it the wrong way that I do now.
Well, so play, play buzz cast, clip one. I think when people
are voting with their wallets, we can see different types of
shows come up to the top. Because all you really need is a
small audience that really loves your content, rather than a
really large audience that is just like, hey, being informed
about the news is worth 20 minutes of my day, one of the
things I always keep coming back to is if we want to avoid some
of the negative things that happened with the rest of the
internet, like because everything was sucked into, like
the monetization strategy for everything was ads. YouTube is
ads, news is ads. Everything that we do is ads. Were trying
to keep us on platform all the time and give up tons of
attention. So they can sell little pieces of it to an
advertiser. And we've just seen so many ways that that goes
wrong. But if we want a different world, we have to pay
for a different world. And we actually have to vote for that
different world. I know my three favorite podcasts I pay for him.
Okay. Yeah, that that's, I think that applies as well. Sure to
music, because we're going to you know, the idea here,
actually, we can go
well, it can if I can if I can just say one thing. Yeah, sure.
What I love about the music idea is that I know in my heart, I
will set a rate that makes the three minute song worthwhile for
the person who gave it to me. Yep, that's exactly where that's
that's where it gets beautiful. I mean, I stream typically 200
sets a minute to any podcast I've listened to, and which I
think is a good number. But if I'm if that's my time, like
Yeah, I'm this I'm listening to this and it adds up at the end.
You listen to an hour what is that? To
what is that tuner sets a minute to under time? 60? This year the
engineer will we have an engineer in the boardroom? So
yeah, what can you do the math for us there? You should add up
all the zeros and
calculate an account.
Is it 12,000 12,000 SATs? Am I saying it
right? 20,000 rent? was 120,000 for an hour test, would you say
200 times 60?
That's 12,000. I
got my calculator 100. That was 82.
So how much is that in in fee and Fiat fun coupons to have
that as about as two bucks delivered dollars dollar? buck
and a half?
I think I need to update a bit. But I read for music, like all
day long, you know, it's like and some and some I would even
want to set it hey, if if something comes through on a
playlist, and it's from this artist or this band, automatic
up the SATs.
Okay, that's that's the part that we don't get yet. Because
I'm not trying to say that. But what I mean is, like, there's
going to be experiences of ways to pay and ways to do these
things that we can't envision, of course, and so we're taught.
So you know, you brought up what about the pitch and how the VC
they're very different from music, very different, very
different, very different. And but but it will evolve, it'll
happen.
And here's where the where the lit comes in. You know, some it
will be appropriate for some artists or bands or some
performers to use the lit tag to go live to maybe use that as
fundraising or use that as a weekly here's what I'm doing or
progress report or whatever. With you know, with with live
booster grams. I mean, this is it's a lifestyle. It's the new
international lifestyle of value for value, and we're living it
and everyone's gonna start to realize it's, it's a pretty good
way to do it. Because you can't be Jay Z and Beyonce anymore.
You can't be Joe Rogan. You can't be Megan Markel. But you
don't need to be. You don't need to be number one, the charts are
ridiculous that it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter? And if
and if, and if you're able to get 1000 people who will only
use this one particular app, then you're golden. You know
what I mean? It's like, do you need to be able to survive? I
think I told you right away, Dave, this is gonna be a lot of
fun. Some of the best work we ever done, we're not gonna make
any money off this, we certainly won't be millionaires, let alone
billionaires. If anyone has a billion out of this, then we did
something very wrong. That's the whole point is value for value.
Yeah. Yes, I think the I think the streaming per minute thing.
That's really, we get caught up in the booths. And they're,
they're fun. But I think the streaming per minute thing is
really where the rubber meets the road for some of these other
things like maybe audiobooks or music. In podcasting, it works
because there's a quick, there's a real fast feedback loop. Yeah,
it especially if you have like a weekly show or something like
that. But but on music, the per minute, and that's going to be a
lot of meat there. Because you can really set you can say,
Okay, I'm going to budget this much actually play buzz cast,
clip three,
clips, three,
but the value for value model gives you the option to either
stream SATs while you're listening, like so many per
minute, or you can just boost and so that is every month, you
could just deposit like $20 into your podcast or wallet, and then
you could boost it out as you're listening to episodes. When
you're out of money. You're out of money for the month, like I'm
not gonna refill this wallet Until next month,
I'm gonna discipline podcasters who was speaking?
That was Kevin, Kevin. Kevin,
I want to kiss you on the lips, man.
That that per minute, that's a great. It's just it's, it's not
very, it's not very talked about, I guess it's the per
minute side of podcasting. Because the booths take the take
the limelight, that per minute side on a music app. If I were
to be like, Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to take that 10 bucks
a month that I spend on Spotify or 15 or whatever. And I'm going
to put $15 You know, not too into the podcast music side of
things and it's just always streaming in every if, you know
if everybody if that becomes the lifestyle, then that's real
money,
but I also absolutely, and I also see, you know, like Merkle
tree type stuff where if I if I turn someone on to a band, I can
get some reward for that. I mean, I know we can go deep on
this stuff. I know it it's what it's actually probably what they
wanted pink to be number apples, social network ping mean, I
think these these things are possible. I just get really
jazzed by the idea and there's so much this. You think there
was pent up energy for podcasting, waiting to see With
the musicians are ready to do, and they understand kind of
being, you know, they understand asking for sure. But then once
we have that flying man, we can integrate it and I look out.
Look,
what's what's your John, what is your split with him when it
comes to like this versus straight streaming says I'm
imagining that your streaming is probably higher. But that's just
a guess.
No actually I tend to do I tend to do it the other way around, I
tend to do a lower average streaming, but then I boost when
at Well, I used to boost at strategic moments versus a you
know, like, oh, yeah, that's awesome. And I didn't generally
send booster grams, because when you're in the moment, you just
want to boost you don't want to sit there and compose something.
And but I was actually talking about your income, like your
pocket? Where I'm sorry,
I always lose when I'm in the moment too.
Anyway, okay, so sorry, the other way around it you have
stats on this? I'm not in front of me. No, I have held up and I
should probably download a CSV and have a look for you. But I
tend to get so I will get regular boosts oddly every week?
I'm not sure. Anyway. So but I do get this background
streaming. And the thing is, you can tell whichever comes from
based on how it's grouped together, because different apps
will give you a different because they don't all stream at
exactly the same per minute they'll bundle it up and then
send it in one hit in a transaction. So like batching
Yes, batch it. Yes. Well, the answer the question
the having an umbrella at home and watching value for value
come in and then realizing that you're getting more Satoshis per
month and from your two s nine mining machines says a lot.
Yeah, says a lot. That'd be cool. It's true. Yeah, shall we
thank a few people because we're just rambling on here and they
want to read some Yeah, I'd like to read some of these that came
in some of the some of the booster grams from our lips. We
got everyone there in the in the in the chat room. Okay, okay. My
goodness is a lot that came in 100,100 Satoshis from chyron.
Mere Mortals podcast. I've been blessed a special number episode
and at a time I can join I was actually explaining P two o at a
crypto meetup recently and people really got it when I
related how splits could be used for musicians and app to show
them at the same time would be amazing. Nice. That's right.
There's Mary Oscar blowing 100 at us. 17,776 from blueberry.
hella hella boosts CLI pilled. Man. Okay, that is from the
boost CLI. Billy Bones comes in was 233 threes and he says thank
you all for creating podcasts and 2.0 You need to thank
everybody including you ability bones, D Dubs. 1010. Boost CLI
supports nano vi Max emacs or whatever you have set as
default. Yes, I will have to try the boost CLI with Emacs. source
D vim for life. Okay, now we're getting into the jihad. Eric p p
at 100,100 SATs happy 100 show thank you very much. Pay tar
123456 1 million Satoshis.
Oh 20 is Blaze on am Paula happy
100 Go podcast. Wow. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you see
Brooklyn 3333. Then we have Mike Newman. And Mike comes in with
133,333. He says I hear John Chinggis in the lobby. He was
yeah he I think he knocked over a trash can or something people
got his causality show is great. And it makes sense he guest on
episode 100 Great use of 2.0 Cheers, John. One of my goals is
to implement as many tags as I can in my little jalopy of a
podcast that Mike Newman show. That's Mike Newman Dutch knife
Mike Newman dot show. Mi ke n e u m a n n dot show I've enjoyed
testing all sorts of tech this year alone and meeting so many
of the PC two Oh crew in Dallas last week.
This was great St. Joseph Gracie and Mike in the in Dallas.
That's always what a conference is great for. This thing is just
getting started. Thanks to y'all. I like this ship says
Mike. Blueberries mic 100,000 Satoshis air horn air horn air
horn one of the first things I asked myself beginning 2020 was
what the hell is RSS feed?
It's well you now know okay, it's
doomed. It's been a sick ride. Thank you both and everyone for
the deep well of knowledge pew pew MoPhO Oh there we go pew pew
mofos and then he has a oh he hasn't URL here with an mp3
file.
Yeah Lord
yeah well I mean we might as well do it this way Come on.
course I'll do it what was the oh here it was hold on does that
name Jennifer hola que think that was dead Jennifer. Okay
that was highly inappropriate blueberry thanks 1000 from Chad
F Steven B 222,220.
Shot Caller 20 is blades on am Paula Steven
B from Kira caster says Happy second birthday. Thank you.
Thank you brother. 1000 SATs again from blueberry. See dubs
it's 2133 a boob from source D Yeah 808 We got you. Then we I
think we did this one. Sup? Sup? Yo, sup? Yes. Time for the
champion the 305 that is 100,001 SATs. We have our podcast
listening live during my mic during my kids taekwondo
practice on pod verse 8675 SATs thank you for the upcoming
hackathon. I'd be eager to lend my data science visualization,
visualization skills. Congratulations, Episode 100.
And my son Darren says go podcast podcast a
Dodge defeat dodge the feet in the hands. Yeah,
then of course we got the 1,001,001 SATs from Dred Scott
another 33,333 from Carolyn lyceum. 100,100 Congrats to your
milestone 100 episodes. I am all for the boost drive. That's
That's what they call it. They call it the boost drive. They
were driving the boost like a cattle drive of boosts playing
up into our into our ranch.
We had nothing to do with this.
It was no no this is of course not. This is why it works. So
well. We had another we had nothing to do with it. Thanks
for your work and for introducing me to the value for
value model. Thanks for participating in it. Best
premises. Oh, this is Martin Linda's code. There you go
former second place fountain leaderboard for baller boost
with rands date number of 221,905 Satoshis Yeah, we'll try
again this month game on go podcast. And then there's
another Mike Newman 100,033 sets cast dramatic boost rolling the
dice to see if it gets through go podcasting? Sure did. He sent
another one another one from CAST ematic one from fountain
also 100,033 90. And there he is with 300,033 SATs Hello, Mike
Newman simply stated, The goal here is to boost you all a
million SATs in a few days. Now less than an hour. This is about
two hours ago, before the 100th episode completely abusing
channels near and far using as many apps and services as I can
to demonstrate it at a small but essential part of what y'all
have accomplished here since episode one. Ah mazing thank you
for preserving, protecting and extending podcasting for years
to come. Mike, thank you, man. That is so kind.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. All right. I think I got just about everybody there
in the in the the lit boost the club. Thank you all so much.
That is this is
that's incredible. I
mean, normally having, what DeVore Eken I would do is we
pick numbers. Right? So what do you have a number? Well, because
people showed us the way hey, it's Pi Day 314. Hey, it's it's
April 23 420. Hey, is your birthday 58? We don't have to
think this. This came organically and that's that
means it's really working.
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of humbling.
And it also just means that people love us. Yeah, yeah.
Everyone loves you guys.
You know, I feel like I really do feel love. Very much. So
the, you know what, I wonder? I wonder about, you know, the
different ways of different ways of connecting, like we were
talking earlier, about, you know, music has sort of it gets
its own thing, and it needs its own app. And then something came
up this week on podcasts index is social, about being able to,
like present a request to the user, so that when they follow
the pot, like I think the way it was explained is if if somebody
follows a podcast, and that podcaster also has something
like a newsletter, there could be some sort of tag or something
in there that would say, in the feed that would say, Okay, I
also offer this newsletter, and then the app could could show
that to the, to the listener, where they could say where they
could subscribe to the newsletter, like right in the
app.
sure that that sounds like something useful.
Yeah, I think they, you know, David Norman from hypercare
explored some of this in the hyper Capture App. Very early
on. Yeah. He remembered this marriage between podcasting and
newsletters. And I wonder, how will that we could codify that.
Here's here's the here's the only issue. What? Maybe not,
it's just newsletters. I love newsletters, but man, that
pretty much the only thing I would even touch these days
would be substack. Everything else seems tainted crap and no
good. And I'm sure problems will come everywhere. It's just you
know, there's just we don't really have I'm not familiar
with all the external resources for news newsletters.
I don't know it's your I don't know, either. I said
it's it sucks. So bad, the way things don't arrive or filtered
away or put into promotions tabs, and it's just, it's a real
nightmare to manage.
And everybody wants to own your inbox. You don't use letters or
anything that you don't
actually do. But my newsletters, yeah, yeah, I bought it as a bi
created a year special RSS feed that combined podcast episodes,
as well as blog posts on the engineering network. So if
there's anything that's new, that's happened in the last
week, it automatically sends out to a mailing list using
MailChimp. But some people do actually subscribe to it. And
when I heard when I was watched, because I followed that exact
thread that you're talking about. And it's to me, it's
like, well, how deep do you want to go? How tight you want to
make that integration? Yeah, because like, right now, we have
I think funding and the funding when you when you tap on that,
and most apps, it'll just take you to the website. And it's
like, oh, here's how you can support like a shortcut to that.
As opposed, you know, we could just do the same thing with the
newsletter, because the only way people know I've got a
newsletter is to go to the website, I don't even pimp it on
the shows because, well, that's my bad, I probably should that,
you know, irrespective, it's like they gotta go to the site,
have a look newsletter, oh, look, I can sign up for
newsletter. So how many people are going to take time out to do
that? And this shortcut might make a difference, but it
doesn't have to be baked completely into the app, you can
jump out just like we do. Why not?
I would personally I would rather focus our effort and
energy on implementing XMPP with a bridge to IRC to get chat
working or something like that.
Yeah, that that needs that needs to be probably next up on the
list. There's, there's always, you know, what makes things
complicated is there's always sort of two, two things going
on. There's one that's code heavy and one that spec heavy,
right and in in an just and technical. And then there's and
then there's, like, evangelism that's going on? Yeah. So
there's, there's like the the music stuff. That's, that's
really more evangelism than code. Yeah. And, you know, the
XMPP stuff and the chat stuff that that really is more more
code than anything else. I do like so. So John, you don't have
any live, you don't do anything live right?
Now, not anymore. Back in 90, more mid 2014 in with pragmatic,
actually had five or six episodes live, streaming them
using icecast. Put sort of, like, stitched a bit together
using liquid soap. And I used to update the website with a live
flag that scrape the status, x x s l file from icecast. And I had
a chat room in IRC, you know, much like, like ATP, do it. The
relay guys, you know, five by five, and a lot of them do that.
So it's like, it's a thing I used to do. But I got, oddly
more complaints than I got compliments. It because people
would say, Oh, why can't you do it at this time? I can't
possibly make it at that time sort of thing. And when I had,
like, probably two thirds of my audience in the United States,
I, I would I tried a few getting up at ridiculous hours of the of
the morning to try and suit and satisfy the North American
audience. And even then, people would then complain from Europe
and say, Oh, well, you know, that's a really big time. And
I'm like, Oh, my God. Okay, so the joy of live is that there
are many time zones, and we live in a ball. And so yeah, more
people were annoyed that I couldn't do it at their
preferred time and the audience level and feedback and
engagement just wasn't there. So I stopped doing it. And no one
seemed to care that I stopped. So that's
well, okay, so you did so you did an ice cast server. This is
what I'm trying to get some just want to try to get at. So
there's, there's a couple of breakthroughs that need to
happen here. There's there's the ability for people to do live
streams. And when I say people, I mean, I mean hosts hosting
companies, hosting companies need need a way forward for live
streams. And we talked about it a lot in Dallas last week. with
people and just trying to brainstorm things. My, my idea
is maybe wacky or too much. My idea was you, you know, if your
hosting company you spin up, you spin up a and n A icecast server
in a Docker container or something whenever you need it,
dynamically assign it a DNS, DNS name. And then for the life of
that live broadcast, that thing is running, and then you spin
it, and then you just destroy it when it's finished, like a
dashboard on voltage. Exactly the same. Exactly. I like that.
Now, there may be much better ways to do it. And this is why I
bring it up, because I want to hear where I'm going overkill on
this. But I mean, I could see that. If you had like, I don't
know, if you're, if you're a large host, and you had like 10
of these things running, they're probably not costing, if they're
sitting there doing nothing, they're probably not costing you
anything, it's just a container. Especially if you're a
Kubernetes or something like that. I mean, it wouldn't
probably, it's meant the cost is minimal until you start the
bandwidth going. And then I was thinking of it just like it like
an Apache server, you know, like you have a minimum spares that
are running, and then you just spin up a few more whenever
somebody whenever those begin to get used, and you kill them. I
don't know, I'm trying to think of a way. But so then on the
backside, let's let's say that you have that model, then on the
back side, you got to have a way for the podcaster to connect,
and take and start sending to the stream. And so then there
would have to be some sort of, you know, you display back to
them. The, the connection string or the the URL that they need to
connect to? Is, is that how you do it currently, Adam, when you
take over the stream, do you just connect to a endpoint and
go?
Yeah, so I have the luxury that the no agenda stream is up 24/7
It's ice cast server. I have God power. So the minute I hit
Connect is like whoever's there is just sad. Because I
want to look like I mean, like what is the connect to and when
you say connect,
I'm sorry, I use radio caster small app. And all you do is
just have the you have the one endpoint, you got a password,
you fill that in, you put your bid rate, you do all that once,
and then from then on out, it's just click, you're on click,
you're off. But it is it is a separate app that I use.
Okay, and that just hooks into your rig is that, yeah,
it just hooks into the output of my, I mean, anyone who streams
kind of knows this stuff.
And I'm thinking about people who don't stream who are not
used to it, like how
we need to kill them, they just need to kill them. If you don't
stream you don't dream, okay, get out of get on my face, as
if like it would be it'd be nice to have some sort of guide, or
something that said, Here's in clear, clearly, the hosting
company would would want to do this, you know if they're going
to support this feature. But for those who want to get their feet
wet with it earlier than waiting for host implementation, it
would be nice to have some sort of concise guide that could say,
Okay, here's, here's how you could go live. But you know,
quickly or whatever.
For fun, even though it's so specialized, I don't think
there's a lot of podcasts that go live with audio only, there's
just not a lot what most people will be very comfortable with
his stream yard or OBS. And connecting that to some, you
know, everyone kind of knows, oh, I need this kind of data, I
put it in here and send it, it would be easier to use something
like that and just take the audio that way. Also, if it's
multiple people, they can still use the video to communicate
with each other. I think the tools are out there. I think
they're usable. But I don't know if if this is something the
hosting company should solve. I'm not sure that the lit tag is
a big deal for everybody. I think it's a huge deal for a
very small subsection who will be able to use it effectively.
That I think and I think those are valuable content creators
who know how to use it and will use it but I just don't see it
as a big mainstream thing. But it's important I want it
it will I'm just thinking you know, brought up the chat in the
chat really is only it's kind of only the last not only live
knows it could be the things
I mean it The room is open. You know, people are in there all
the time to like, an IRC chat. I mean the troll room.io Where no
agenda stream.com is open all the time that said the community
lives there of trolls, but they do live there under bridges and
stinky garbage heaps.
I guess. I mean, I would love XMPP. That that seems like the
way to go for for a built in chat. In in the app. It's more
you know, it's
seem a lot easier to get going the comments
here. Yeah. And because it's because it's because it's
synchronous.
Yes. And we and we are and of course I didn't come up with
this myself. I got this from Alex gates. He said, XMPP were
the bridge to IRC. I said, I heard chef, I'm on it.
Okay, can you put that in? Like, is that something that can be
hooked to the no agenda?
Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The x Oh, yeah. IRC and XMPP.
worked very well together. Okay. Yeah, I think there's all kinds
of existing stuff.
I feel like I did a lot of XMPP programming years ago. I know
nothing about IRC. I feel like I just don't know anything about
the way it worked. Well,
luckily, we have some very skilled people in our group.
Yeah, there's people doing I mean, when when you're at the
bot level, I'm sure you can help us with XMPP bridge to IRC.
That would be great. I would love to build some sandboxes and
stuff around that to try to just try it out. You know, because I
still have I still got MK Ultra this sitting there that needs.
There's another
thing you know, we just need to shut everything down. Just you
just got to work through your list. Yeah. Yeah, you said yeah.
Let's take some more people. Dave. We're running on a buck 45
here so let's
Yeah, all right. Let's see we got we got some
I don't mind doing the show late for our guests in Australia. But
you know, just because we ruin his breakfast doesn't mean he
gets to ruin our dinner you got time, John, you can hang out
with us some more.
I am making time for you guys. Oh, good. Keep rolling. You
know, also
you have an amazing set of pipes. Oh, well, thank you for
Yeah, you really really sound good. You know, because
Australians can have a certain I'm just saying it's like you
have all kinds of opinions about American accents. But yours with
the voice it just it has something really comfortable.
It's really nice to listen to.
Thank you. Thanks Adam actually means a lot coming in from you
especially Thank you
You're welcome. I mean it
we guess that fountain on screen Nick of their fountain is $200
Whoa I think we get the
ball them Bala
shot Carla 20 blades on am Paula it's
It's everybody's just so generous today.
We get Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you. Oscar and I've
got a bug I need to squash for Oscar and nationally not squash.
I've got to introduce this to gay. I get it No, no. No,
investigate. Let's see. Steven, Steven crater, send us $100 And
he says for episode 100.
Thank you so much, Steven.
Steven. I really appreciate you man. I really do. He, he is one
of those people that jumps in there and just does things that
need doing. Like, you know, he's a person that just sees that.
This something needs like something needs to be done like,
like this bucket of you know, mop water needs to be refilled
or the sort of the dirty jobs that are just like time
consuming. He jumps in there and doesn't. And I really appreciate
that. So more than more than I can
you give us an example. So so we all know
what mentation Yeah, that's number one. When I put when,
when I roll up a new endpoint or something, he documents it. And
when he goes in there to document it if he sees bugs, or
misspellings or something. He's like, Hey, this is messed up.
And I go fix it. Or somebody says, hey, what's the GU ID for
my podcast? And he jumps in there posted before? Before I
do. I'm like cool. It's just it just takes you just take stuff
off my plate all the time and I'm so appreciative of it
one time for the one time.
Fire $558 from Prem Lee barber Barbosa Prem Lee Barbosa $50 No
note, thank you very much. Thank you. primly, we get some
histograms.
We get oh by the way, I would like now I would like to say to
James Cridland, you've begged for it enough times I've put the
big baller jingle into our show notes for today's episode so
someone can go put that into the repository. I just want you to
know it wasn't necessarily an open source thing. It was
originated in the MO facts with Adam curry podcast. Then slowly
stolen slash adopted by the no agenda podcast, then it moves to
podcast 2.0 And now we set it free.
It's now it's been released. It's been released released
into the wilds back to the elements from which it came.
We have a good ISO as speaking of James Kirtland, and if you
want to drop that one in there, please
come and talk to us please. Wow, that's genius. That is not just
an ISO that's and a show ISO baby.
That reached the top of the mountain.
The pinnacle has been achieved.
Chad Pharaoh 3333 No notes. Thank you. Let's see Auburn
citadel. 49 490 Boost me JC destock
you got it boost boost boost. Yay.
8888 from Chris last as Chris from Jupiter broadcasting says
thanks for going to Podcast Movement, so we don't have to
dodge the bullet. Although it was really nice hanging out with
everybody. That was the main thing. And once we'd hung out
with everybody, it was time to leave. This is very
tailored. Regarding your live chat discussion we do most most
of our shows live and based on listener demand, we're moving
our live chat to matrix. So far, it's working out great. IRC can
be bridged into matrix in many cases might be possible to have
the best of both worlds.
can we bridge XMPP to IRC back to matrix hey now
can and should
use your free dance. Yes, I guess
the only thing that I'm bought that concerns me about matrix is
I've heard that the back end is very heavy. And I would like to
hear input on the
hell was going on? We're going to have a standoff because the
Alex gauge the official podcasting 2.0 consultant, not
to be confused with a value for value coach, the 2.0 consultant,
he's pushing very heavily for XMPP. And I believe Roy over a
breeze would be pushing very hard for matrix. So if we could
make those two meet somewhere in the middle and connect them
that's all good. That the
middle that would be like middle of the Atlantic. Yes, somewhere.
I'm not quite sure how we have these types. Maybe there's no
conflict at all. Maybe it all fits perfectly together.
Okay, you guys meet in Greenland and fight and whoever wins,
right? That's right. See 717 73 sets from Mike Dell says Dallas
moves from room 1773 Well, three, go ahead. No, go ahead.
Go keep on Yeah. 12 345 from hard 12345 from hard hat. No
note.
Thank you. Very nice. Booze. Roy scheinfeld
No, there. There he is. He's for episode 99. Excuse me. This is a
this was a mess up on my part. I did. He boosted last week and
this week and I missed both of them. And then I figured out
this afternoon that it was and because I message you and I was
like I can't find Roy's boost is driving me nuts is concerning.
And
yes, we were we were we were combing how sad or we were
combing through heli pad and through I was looking at CSVs
like I got no wikis in here somewhere.
Show yourself Roy show yourself. He's a bit he had boosted two
booths two weeks in a row with no note. And I had filled my
script was filtering. Oh no, no,
it's Yeah, reading on the show that's the epitome of lazy is
given a big boost and I'm you know I'm gonna give 54,003 and
20 on SAS but you know, I mean my silk robe I got my floppy
slippers on. It's so tiring to type a note.
I said I message him I said so good. All good. I found him.
Here's, you know, here's the bug. And fixed. We're all we're
all good. It's like
do you say Roy do you send your would you send your wife a card
with just just a card with no writing on it? I feel I feel our
relationship was better than that.
It's a box of chocolates. It's just wrappers and no extra
chocolate
so He essentially debugged my code from like, what 3000 miles
away, which was Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Yes, that's good. Next
time, I'm just gonna print all the code out and mail it to, to
to John and Roy and have them decode it from their respective
locations. Okay. What one let us see 1111, George Orwell and
Orwell Nietzsche says boost
yo, yo, thanks George Jordan rose big supporter, big channel
opener to everybody appreciate it.
Big row sticks 11 111 from mere mortals podcast. He says I think
the best I think the biggest problem with the for V, is it it
takes a while to get going. In the latest V for V podcast
episode, I talked about how pod land required a while until new
people joined in on the boosting. But I think the rush
of the highest impact dopamine jacking, heart racing
extravaganza of a message with monetary value attached is worth
it.
Die can concur. I completely agree. Absolutely.
RDK 519 Send us 1010 SATs and he says Adam and Dave, thanks for
all you're doing with podcasting 2.0 Our shows aren't yet in the
2.0 universe, but we're working to get them there as quickly as
possible. Keep up the good work. Rob Kirkpatrick
Thank you, Rob. Look forward to
Jean Everett's in his 1001 SAS he says cheers. Cheers to you.
Cheers back at you. Uh, Chris, you know, send us 3570 SATs and
no note. Sir Doug sent us 10,000 SATs and he says value for value
boost the yo yo,
love that.
Is the Amit Sharma dog
I miss I'm missing the TOS. Where's the ducks today?
I don't know. See?
I feel so you know, I haven't heard any ducks. Little
concerned about the dogs. All right. What's your dog? Okay.
He is I had to mute myself and yell at him. Oh, I don't know if
it's gonna help or not
wasn't buying any dogs was he?
He's he sees the chickens outside and he really wants
chicken tonight.
Like right now pronto. Yeah, immediately. Chicken
1234 from SLC. I can't I can't view boosts only this show no
problems on na.
Oh, yes. We have comments this in Fountain we requested no
comment boosts our podcast. So I could have an A B and then not
the show. But next show. Um, this also was part of Tanner's
problem, the comments do present opportunities and they present
issues. But that's for another show.
So Pete 21,500 says To cast a magic is this the talk about
making features appealing or making them better? Better known
on its own is kind of weird. I think the total experience of
listening to a podcast is key. When podcasters say in their
podcast, quote, check out the image in your app to see what I
mean. Or skip to the next chapter to get the results.
Yeah, those two calls will pull people to both use and ask for
the new features. You might also awaken the call for so for
support of new features. Completely
agree completely agree. Good one.
That's the that's the other part that I'd written in my notes
earlier is that part of the value is the podcaster has to
use his or her voice in the podcast to talk to the listener
that you have to you your podcast the content of your
podcast is the way that you do it. It's you don't it's not you
don't just flip a switch. It's not technology. All the
technology in the world can be there. But if you don't if you
don't engage your audience in that way that it doesn't is
useless. Sir Shona, the Allegheny Valley, aka Sean
McCune 50,000 SATs he says boosting while listening to the
last episodes boosts
Oh nice. Thank you. Nice boost boost boost boost the boost
boost.
Timmy tweet 23 8315 1000s As he says just updated my years old
d&d tabletop gaming podcast to 2.0. Hoping we won't offend our
long term, our longtime Patreon subscribers by moving to value
for value for anyone interested in longtime friends playing
tabletop RPGs. Reviewing project products and not being serious
about it. Check out GG no ri that's GG space in O space R E.
Go podcasting. Yo Cool.
See 11 111 from Martin from pod friend.
Hey Martin How you doing?
He says 100th Episode Wow feels like just yesterday since I
wrote to Adam about accessing the index and then creating that
first early open source app implementation. I've been quiet
for a while but I'm having so much fun right now working on
pot friend two ah which is going to be better than ever.
It's coming to theaters this summer.
Happy episode aversary and rock own nice boost. Pod friend too.
I'm excited I'm excited pod friend to it's like the iPhone
14
Martin back again 100,000 SATs and he's Oh again because 100
Yes,
just Blaze on am Paula.
So happy he's still on our orbit.
Straight up. Yeah, it can't wait to see pocket pod friend 2.0 I
didn't know he was working on that he's been keeping it
download
pod friend and 2.0 it's your friend.
No bigger than ever. These laughs since 838 SATs and he
says show was lit.
Yeah. laughs
sin is 25,000 SATs he says go podcasting. Nice.
I'm so humbled by these numbers. This is so great.
It's incredible. Steve, that was Steve in Bradenton, Florida.
slewed send a 1611 SATs and he says 1611 equals King James
boost go podcasting?
I'm not quite sure what to play. I don't have a King James thing
but don't just stand there. Oh go podcast.
Let's just pretend that was kJ.
Yeah, it sounded just like him.
Meet us. Send us 2222 through fountain and he says the boost
below nice. The boost below me says indirect. This is like an
Excel column Excel formula indirect. open parenthesis
address open parenthesis row parenthesis plus one column
parenthesis.
And you have solved our secret puzzle. Congratulations for
boosting us in the row.
What was that? No idea. Okay. Steven B sends 100,000 SATs. Oh
man at the 100th episode. Thank you so much. Brother. Bissau
used screenshots of curio, curio caster in my preferences Tasha
on Yes. Dame Jennifer sent us 100,000 Sask cue up. Jingle
congrats. One 100 For this Oh,
that'll surprise here.
Happy episode aka board meeting 100 que that obnoxious air horn.
Please come and talk to us. Ready for her?
That was the obnoxious air horn was James.
I don't know how that happened. Muscle memory. Long COVID All
right. So we hit the congrats jingle here. Yeah, hit it.
Hey, guys. Congratulations on episode 100. You've managed to
build an incredible team who are all doing amazing things. I'm
looking forward to what we'll see in the hackathon. I'll be at
the craft services table eating cake and drinking Prosecco out
of plastic cups of course. See there are boost people boost
boost boost.
Dave Jennifer best she she's a big part of it. Man. You're a
big part of it. Dame Jennifer.
She says she wanted it to sound like those obnoxious
celebrities, you know, congratulating each other.
It's hard for her to pull it off entirely because she's just so
nice.
Yeah, there's no underlying note. Yes, back there.
No, no, not a hint of douchebaggery no smugness no
jealousy. It's just pure open honest and we'd love your name
Jennifer. We really do everybody does your fantastic. You should
be making a million Satoshis a day being a value for value
consultant.
Oh, that's a good idea. Oh, look at both look at boosted this it
was John Chingy no way you're 61 says no,
no.
No that guy. Hey, John,
do you need to before I forget you need to immediately email me
your your node ID so I can put you in our splits. Notice how we
put him in the split after all the million million set booths
come in? Yeah, we're not totally stupid. Boy.
We and guess what? We didn't have a guest last week. Oh, so
no split goes to that. That's true, because that does mean
that you stay with us until the next guest is on to kind of
happy
birthday to us. Yes. Hi, Dave and Adam and listeners podcast
2.0. Brian of London's in Python example code with attitude.
Hopefully that helped me make this VISTA grande possible. It
feels like Have some kind of hive mind and dig it. Anyway, I
encourage anyone that isn't already listening to causality
to visit engineer dot network as we analyze what went wrong, or
excuse me what went right and what went wrong and we discover
that many outcomes can be predicted, planned for and even
prevented and you too can decide if the listener that called me a
dreamy narrator was right or not. Nice.
Thank you. Yes.
Hard Hat 100,000 SATs boost, boost. Boost. Thank you hard
hat. There's just so many of these is nuts. Mac. Macintosh is
in its 10,000 SATs and he says Happy 100th Episode What an
accomplishment. I'm looking forward to the next 100 episodes
and the next dozen or more podcasts and 2.0 features go
podcasting your podcast. I am to Macintosh. We're just getting
the last slide of the presentation was we're just
getting started. And that's that is it feels like that's 100%
True. Yep. Jason unit sent us 103,099 sets through pod verse
and he says please defragment me, Adam.
Oh, yes. Love to do that. And we'll throw in a boost. Thanks.
I'm glad people are asking for that.
He says Adam, if I boost more than $333 with a Bitcoin to the
no agenda show. Well, I get credited as an executive
producer.
No, don't do it. Don't do it. Do it now. It's just an ongoing
conversation I'm having with my partner so don't do it. Don't
Ask Don't Don't rock the boat.
Brian of London in the high Dao 49,524 SATs do the V for V out.
Thank you, Brian.
I'm not he's okay. Thanks. Thanks for Thanks. in advance
for this Brian. He says I'm not a pheasant plucker I'm a
pheasant pluckers made I'm only plucking pheasants because the
pheasant plucker is late. Usually,
Ryan, thanks a lot. By the way. I did want to say that, you
know, the booths that come to no agenda go of course, the clip
custodian and they go to to Dred Scott. And I think we're far
enough along the road and I think we have enough 2.0 value
for value podcasters who are also do album art. If you put
your your Alby address or your node ID in the information where
your your images if, if, if we choose you, I'm going to put you
in the value split of the no agenda feed. Does that make any
sense? Yeah, that's cool, because everyone I could just go
sign up and get an Alby right now being you just said here's
my details and then all I have to do is plug it in was let's
get these artists some stuff and some sets
if anybody wants to do show art for this for our show do for a
second thing oh yeah, great idea. Well, we'll give you a
split yeah absolutely. Def
a sound bites to Oh yes.
Easy for you to spend our money gently. Down man.
10,101 says and he says IRC plus plus okay, we gotta vote for is
this is gonna be a grudge match.
No, I'm sorry. I
protocol grudge match, a grudge match. Let's see. 333,333 SATs
from crimson deer.
Show shot caller 20 years blades on am Paula.
Third time's a charm. All the threes. Thank you, Adam and Dave
and the whole podcasting. 2.0 team. Mike Newman. Oh, that's
Mike again.
Matt and Mike you're out of control. He has a he reached a
million. No doubt. Did he? Yeah, probably more than a million.
Holy cow. Oh man. Thank you, Mike. And bombshell, sir Speth
sir Spencer 100,000 SATs through curio caster and he says Happy
100th episode thanks for all you have done for Valve favor value
podcasting, decentralization and protecting freedom of expression
in the podcasting environment. He restored our passion for bowl
after bowl and helped us improve our value proposition in our
show over these past almost two years. We are ever grateful sir
Spencer and Dame DeLorean de la.com. Thank you guys
so nice. Really appreciate the support.
Let's see we got Chad Ferro. 100,000 SATs 100k for show 100
Boo.
Nice 100 Fire
Fire Fire one time for the one time.
Jeff arrow dropped 3333 and another 100,000 says 100k for
the Washington
You guys are crazy. It's just so cool.
And did you read sourced? So congrats on episode 100? Yes, I
think I did the 100k
if not hundreds just to recognize it there you go.
Yeah as you pipe pipe CD. All right. Thank you source let's
see God's out one Macintosh and is for 1000 Set boosts. And he
says listen to Thursday's listened to Thursday episode and
note oh no agenda about died laughing at the old man boost.
Give me an old man boost and again congratulations on 100
episodes boost boost boost. I
know what that is.
Oh, man. I'm exhausted. We finally get the delimiter comic
strip blogger. There he is. 15,033 sets and he says how do
you David Adam, on September 3 in 1939, the United Kingdom, New
Zealand and Australia declared war on Germany after the
invasion of Poland. Exactly. 25 years later, inventor of
podcasting, Adam Curry was born. So, happy birthday to you, Adam.
Yo,
thank you for connecting me to Nazis. I really appreciate it.
CSB. highly appreciate it. Thank you for supporting podcasting.
2.0 You've been doing it generously every single week and
with code to thank you all for boosting. That's really great,
really great bunch
of shadowy super coders. That's what y'all are. Yes, right, any
monthlies, guest monthlies, Aaron Reno $5, Pedro gun calvess
$5. Chad Ferro $20.22 Sister Loretta Vandenberg. $10 Scott
Jalbert $12 Martin, Linda Skog, $1 and Mark Graham $1. Thank you
to everybody and thank you to everybody who's ever donated to
the show, even if it's just interest just $1
more towards your time, talent, treasure.
Yeah, all you took you took time out of your schedule to help and
it's greatly appreciated.
And we'll, we'll tally this up. We'll see how we did let
everybody know but the numerology word really? I mean
100,000 SATs is $20 and just have like just 20 thrown out.
Yeah, me I feel a little dirty like a stripper. But come on.
This shit is good. It's working. But also just thank you for I
mean, this is not just Adam and Dave but everybody knows that
this is everybody working together. This is some some kind
of groovy formula that we've stumbled upon and it just seems
to work I personally think it's because there is a monetary
thing involved everybody can share a piece of but who knows
regardless, I'm very very very grateful for this everything
that's happening.
And thank in really, thank you, thank you to the big to the
ballers with Nina Drib and ITAR and Mike Newman, or, you know,
this million sad I mean that we mean going to Dallas wasn't
cheap. And that comes out of the so far it's still on my card.
And we
you got to pay yourself back. But you
didn't you didn't have to pay anything, right? It was all on
my card when you checked out.
Yes, it went to your card. Okay, so you'll, you have to transfer
that over. And somehow I've got to figure it out. This goes back
to your thing, John. You know, when you're talking about being
D platformed. And the potential for that I'm not so I had this
experience this week I'm trying to pay for I'm trying to pay
myself back from the pet from our Pay Pal for the cost on my
card to pay Tim, Tim K for the LMP node. And I'm trying to pay
this back and it's like, okay, well you can't you can't send
money unless it's for goods or services because it's a business
it's a bunch of disability
so fucking complicated these a
nightmare. And then I go in there and I'm trying to link a
bank account because Okay, gonna do transfer. I won't I won't do
a PayPal thing I'll just do a transfer try to link my bank
account to do it over here and it's like, you can't do this
because it's not you have to set the name on the account supposed
to be the name is same as the name and Pay Pal. And do this
whole thing. I'm looking I'm like, Okay, I'm afraid to doing
all this stuff. They're just gonna see like shenanigans going
on and they're just gonna close the account like not not even
that it's content they get gets me the platform. But that is
this this flaky, finicky Trigger Happy financial system can just
be like, You know what, you're too much trouble got done. Like
or you did one thing wrong. You tried to link something that
wasn't that we don't like through AI or something and
we're just gonna shut your whole account
down. Yeah, there is a real risk for that. It's really sucks.
I'm afraid to do too much to it. Because I'm afraid that they're
just going to be like, you know, you know what, this is weird.
You're done. And that that that alone is worth the price of
admission for lightning or some alternative system because you
can you know if I need reimbursement for some expense
it's
how about this? Why don't we Why don't we set up I can set up I
think I can set up strike on a on the podcasting 2.0 account.
And then we could just transfer it and SATs. Yeah, maybe not,
which we'll think about but we'll come up with something. I
love working around these systems is so stupid.
Ya know, it's so add a man so
maddening. What do we give this cIgi guy who didn't? 10%
Yeah, 10% 10% Do you want him to go? You don't want to negotiate.
John
just sounded like that. Look, I'm just, I'm a rollover on this
sort of stuff. I'm just stoked to be here. So you know,
whatever you think is fair.
Saturday morning, whatever.
Straight? That's it. Okay, you're in the block. Good to go
there. Thanks. Yeah, no, of course. Genesis long, long board
meeting. Do we need to do anything else before we wrap up?
I don't think so. I've got I have other things I want to talk
about that we will push into next week.
Oh, yeah. Oh, there's so much to talk about so much to do. So
little time. John. God, thank you so much, man for getting up
early for being a part of this community as well. And a big
part of it. And very active participant. And thank you for
the financial support. It's really easy. It's like comes on
for free. Takes a cheap split.
Thank you for sharing all your code. Thank you for putting all
that up and sore. So we're really rip I know, that's you
didn't that wasn't something that you were used to doing
right? You didn't really do a lot of open source before. But
now when you get out of your comfort zone and started doing
that, I appreciate
that's okay. I'm just hope that everyone anyone that can get
anything useful out of it, get something useful out of it. And
and thank you, both of you for actually pulling this together
kicking this off and it's developing a life of its own the
whole podcasting 2.0 thing is just getting better and better
every week. So it's exciting to be a part of it. Thank you.
We're just getting started. Just getting started. Have a great
weekend. Great Saturday for you. Great weekend for you, Dave.
Thank you everybody in the chat room. Thank you all so much.
Thank you for commenting on the mastodon thank you for being
around. And we'll see you next week with another board meeting
podcasting. 2.0 see us right here. We'll be late as usual.
Listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org For more
information
please come and talk to us please