podcasting 2.0 for November 13 2020, Episode 11 and we're
streaming sachdeva presets at a time, but it's a start. Once
again, it's a Friday. It's Adam Curry as we run down the latest
developments in podcasting. 2.0 at podcasting index.org and some
column Dave the dev from down south. I call him the dream
maker Dave Jones. He lives he lives.
Man, I'm not. I'm not the man I used to be. But I'm but I'm half
of that. And half the man I used to be. That's gotta count for
something. Right?
Oh man, Dave, Dave. Dave. So are you still home? Are you still
quarantining? what's the what's the deal?
Yeah, it made me and my whole family. So we're a two week
quarantine I was in. I was in one bedroom of my house for 11
days. My wife's a teacher and then my kids go to or two of my
kids go to her her school. And so, you know, like teacher
stuff. I mean, they lock that down. Oh, yeah. If you've been
COVID Yeah. Anybody who has COVID positive you are. You
know, you're in the quarantine. So we were all we were all
quarantine here. Yeah. And I was pretty sick. And so like, not
only shoved me into the wrist.
Now. It was just the rohner that got you sick, or was it writing
the namespace elements that got you sicker? Yeah.
I don't know. And namespaces are fun. Yeah, as me Yeah.
Remember what this show is all about namespace after all. I
mean, that's what draws with drew that huge audience in is it
is our sexy reads of namespaces. So yeah, definitely,
you draw you draw a man with the namespace and keep them with a
bunch of lightning stuff. Want to say this though? I want to
say this right out the gate. We did a half an episode on
lightning protocol and Bitcoin stuff. And as of yet today, a
week later, I have not heard from one bitcoin person who
emailed us and said that we're full of crap. We don't know what
we're talking about. We're jerks. We're noobs. I mean,
like, I was fully expecting to get pounded by the Bitcoin
people of like, y'all are a bunch of idiots. You said
everything wrong. Nothing made any sense. But we didn't. I'm
calling that a win. It's a big win. And of course, now you have
invited the boogeyman. And obviously,
what's it what's good about it is, and I've looked at this too,
because, you know, typically on Twitter, you get some pushback.
And there's been the expected bsv fans, Bitcoin cash, and that
kind of stuff. And basically, they're saying you're, you're,
you're doing it wrong, you should do it with this, to which
my answer is great. I mean, the more systems we can put into
this, the better bring it on. I mean, this is we're just we're
just pushing this stuff, just pushing it to make something
happen. And allow me to say something up front, because I
have been contacted by a lot of people in the Bitcoin are going
to use the word community community, in the community
in the community.
And I've already done a couple of interviews on some Bitcoin
podcasts to see today. Peter dropped and I said it dropped
the you get
you're out of control.
Oh, yeah. Isn't it the what Bitcoin did episode which I
listened to in its entirety and i and i am i'm very happy of how
much of the story I got out in coherent fashion. He's a very
gracious guy and and I enjoyed myself very much. But the more
that comes in, I want to make one thing very clear. Every
single line of code of this project has either been written,
managed or merged by Dave Jones. And there's no team there's no
yelling in team nothing in Sofia, Bulgaria. And, and I
don't think Dave craves Limelight or anything like that,
but it's, I crave giving it to you because you have really, I
mean, we have throughout the decade, this is kind of, we
looked at ourselves and said, hey, maybe this is the one and
just just a throwback to episode one. You know, we've we've been
developing really cool things that pretty much only work for
me. And of course, Dave, you you want to use it Well, I mean, we
both use the tools. And we've never really hit on anything
that would make sense for, you know, for the the public at
large, lots of great ideas. But it's always been Dave doing the
coding, I do the breaking. That's, that's my job. And some
of our devs at podcast index social have seen how deft I am
at this. I don't
think people understood when you said, Give me your stuff. And
I'll break it. I don't think they understood exactly how
efficient you are. Yeah, yes, they know now the so
from your partner here, Dave, thank you so much. It's really
it's incredible. The amount of and and, you know, even working
straight through the Rona man, I mean, that's, that's like danger
pay.
Thank you. I won't time and a half. Let me just say that I'm
so like it? Yes. Um, it's so it's so nice to be able to, like
talk to somebody outside of the house.
This is wonderful, I'm guessing is saving Dave's life. Yeah, I'm
God. And
so, so much just happened. And maybe we just take a little
pause and review where we are, as this all started off with the
creation of the index, and the namespace and pushing that
forward and having implementations on well in the
in the podcast index, of course, but then apps that actually take
this information feeds are now starting to come online. And
with that come, the hosting companies who will support a lot
of these, a lot of these newer features. I just wanted to save
from PayPal, or maybe new the beauty of what's happening here.
And it doesn't matter whether it's adding chapters
functionality, or if it's a value block, which splits up
lightning Bitcoin payments. The beauty of this system is that it
remains decentralized, by nature, in order to make it easy
for developers, that's why the index exists. But all of this
stuff, and we were just on a little chat earlier on the chat
app. And it, it just hit me again, how cool it is that
people can actually control what happens in a more meaningful way
now by changing their RSS feed. So yeah, we're aggregating.
We're providing API services to make it fast and make it
functional. But, you know, I love the fact that we can blow
up and dry away would still work tomorrow. Yeah, that makes me so
happy.
Yeah, yeah. Hundred percent. Yeah, that's the cool part about
about this, about the way that the whole value block thing
works is because you can stick that in there. And then you can
just, you know, like, you can tweak it or whatever you want.
And if it doesn't, you don't have to go ask somebody like,
you don't have to go like, you know, set up your account. Now,
if you don't do any of that I miss your feed, you should
change it, because all we're doing is handing it back. Yeah.
Because that's the thing is, like we wanted to make from the
beginning is we wanted to make this thing. De the API part of
the index, something so that it's easy for app for new apps
to get into the game. Yeah, I think you see that with with
Sphinx, and we really need to talk about Sphinx, and how that
works. Because there's still confusion. Yeah. And it's
understandable.
No, it's very, it's very understandable. And, and I knew
that this would be somewhat of a challenge to have people
expecting a podcast app drop into a Sphinx tribe, and like,
What is going on? You just have to understand how all the pieces
fit together. And what what is the unique and what is the
common infrastructure? But also give it a shot you media? Yes,
I'd like you to but I want to say one thing up front that our
marketing department, my wife, who, by the way, she's a C level
marketing executive from nonprofits, and she's been in
this all her life. She's the one that said read Donate button.
She's the one that hammers into me. The number one reason people
don't donate to nonprofits or to any cause is because they're not
asked. And I just want to explain the value for value
model, which is how the pledge system works just to revisit
that so people understand because I still hear a little
bit of confusion or you know, just you just have to see the
examples to know that it works. When you ask someone to support
your, your podcast, and you do it in a manner which is based
upon the value so this is something you have to say to
your audience, to your listeners, however you address
them is that you're listening right now that clearly has some
value. To you, otherwise you turn it off? What is that value?
And you can provide all kinds of examples of how people spend
their time. But it's really, you're asking them, what is
their time worth? And if they say, hey, that's $1 an hour, and
I'm spending my attention, but I'm also consuming this, I'm
liking this, I'm going to send you $1 an hour. You'd be
surprised if you make that completely open. How many people
will send you $5 an hour. And I've learned this from 13 years
doing this with the no agenda show by making it open ended we
did almost from the beginning. He said, Send me whatever you
think it's worth. And I use the example of if you listened to us
for two hours. If you went to the movies, took a date had a
drink had some popcorn, it cost you 4050 bucks, did you have the
same type of enjoyment, these last two hours was it more was
it less whatever that is send it to us in a PayPal, then a lot of
people send $5, some would send 50 someone said 500. And believe
it or not, some send 5008 is unbelievable, because you don't
know how someone else value something. So we took that
concept, and baked it into this ultimate value for value, which
is time based. That's what I love about it. I'm listening,
I'm sending you value back, it's completely voluntary, there's no
cut off, there's no you don't get the feed 99% guaranteed will
not participate, they will just use just listen to your content
and never send anything. But the more you solidify this message,
the more it works. And in general, people find a lot less
annoying than commercials. And so the entire concept here is
built upon that Foundation, which allows us to cut really to
make shortcuts through all of the How is it served up? How do
you receive the bits when you don't receive the bits, all of
that is just negated by saying hey, you can listen to or watch
whatever you want. Just think about the value return. There's
other proven models such as Patreon, a simple PayPal
donation button, these things do work with podcasting, it's
unique, because you can ask the audience and remind them to do
this. So that's the underpinning of the reason the use case for
the pledge model in podcasting.
And so it really boils down to just don't it's don't put a
price on your own. Own your own stuff. Yeah. Don't, don't don't
say, hey, if you like it, give us X number of dollars per per
whatever. Because then you're you're you're limiting what the
other person's value proposition is. In fact, in Sorry to
interrupt.
I'd like everyone who's listening to us on Sphinx app
right now, the Sphinx chat. I'd like you to tap on the
podcasting 2.0 at the top of the app, and move Hey, crank that
value slider, everybody, we want that up to 100 SATs, crank it
all the way to the right and boost us.
Yeah. I mean, it's like, Whoa, why would you say? If you go to
the, you know, me, I'm gonna make a economists mad now. So I
think that's called subjective value, right? I mean, there's
just know, you. That's why the market has to find out prices of
things. Yes. That's why you don't that's why when you
introduce a new product to the market, they, you can't say, Oh,
well, this is worth 1599. Because nobody knows yet. Right.
And that's the whole idea is like, you can't know how much
something is worth to somebody else. And you can and and I can
tell you this. I think programmers will understand this
more than probably maybe more than most is that there's always
been a strong sort of imposter syndrome problem that runs
through developers. And it's been this way for as long as I
can ever remember. And a lot of it has to do with just the fact
that there's blowhard developers out there who like to shame
other people for not knowing something and that kind of
thing. And when you have that, when when that's the culture, in
whatever industry, you you always tend to devalue your own
your own value. And add a friend of mine told me this a long time
ago, is he said it like this. He said, when something was I was
kind of talking along the same lines about you know, what to
do. So that said, Well, I mean, that's not very valuable, or
whatever the terminology I used. And he was like, you know, he
said, You don't need to think that way. Because when things
when you're really good at something, it feels easy to you.
And that doesn't mean that it's not valuable to somebody else
who can do it. Right. You make it look too easy, man. Yeah,
well, that's the thing. It was like it A lot of people have
when you have when you have certain skills, even if they
may, that you've been doing for a long time, whether it's
programming or sysadmin work or whatever it is that or marketing
or anything like that, when you do them because you've been
doing them for so long it, it doesn't feel difficult to you in
and we we incorrectly as, as humans, we we still apply this
labor value this labor. This was the labor idea of value. Right,
right. Yeah. Where it's only valuable when it's hard. But
that's not that's not the way it really works. I mean, we got
away from that with Adam Smith A long time ago.
Well, that's interesting. You say that it was it being an
entertainment. Certainly when I growing up in the Netherlands, I
was on television, very Calvinistic society. You know,
people would come up to my face and say, unbelievable, you make
this money. It's crazy. I mean, it's not a hard job. What the
hell? Yeah. And by the way, I agreed.
Yeah, this
is crazy. But with with podcasts, with the system, we
essentially and I like what you said about the market from a
market perspective, we set the value as zero, it's free to
take, you can pick it right up, it's been that way for a long
time, pick it up, take it, take whatever you want. Now, should
you like it? Should you wish for it to continue. And I think
people have seen during the shutdowns, lock downs, that if
you don't support your local restaurant, your local store,
your local grocer, etc. Certainly in times of trouble,
they go away, they go away. And I know lots of people, ourselves
included, who were doing whatever, we could support a
local restaurant, even though it was takeout, you know, I left
him a tip equal to the booze we drink, you know, that kind of
stuff. So that is a very humane way of dealing with each other.
And perhaps it's, you know, without these without the
necessity for a trusted third party. When transferring value,
certainly when it comes to you know, let's just call it money,
Bitcoin. I think the whole world would look a lot more like, like
a horse trading market. You know, it's like, yeah, this this
No, not that. Okay. By best price. All right. Yeah,
probably.
Yeah, well, you know, we talked about what a couple shows ago,
maybe that the, the number of people out there, there's some
poll that I'd seen the number of people out there that want this,
like, why do you podcast, and it was something like 47%, I can't
remember the exact number of people are like, just basically
for the hell of it. They they're not even trying to get denied
trying to make money. Right. I think that plays into a lot of
things. I mean, not just, you know, the lightning stuff, or
any of that. I mean, that plays into a whole lot of what's going
on in podcasting right now. And I sent you a clip. It actually
plays into something we'll talk about later. But like, I think
that means that has a lot of ramifications for the podcast
industry, it means that not only are people not obsessed with
getting paid, but they're open to just any way of getting paid.
I mean, like, yeah, you know, I mean, even like, if you're doing
a podcast, I've heard so many podcasts now that we've got the
index, and it's easy to just kind of hop in and out of stuff.
I've heard so many podcasts now, where it's just, it's just a
dude talking to us into his phone. And, like, it's so clear
that they just don't, this person just doesn't care about
the monetization aspect. They're not going to go sell ads,
they're not gonna try to get a deal, and Brian's not doing
that. But if that person can get, you know, 20 bucks a month
worth of lightning payments, where they could cover their,
you know, blueberry hosting cost or whatever. I mean, that'd be
great for them. And they'd set up a node, just get that, you
know, it's not like as hard an entry entry point. So Well, I
think it lowers that bar, that that difficulty?
Well, what once once you have the river flowing, and I am
hereby declaring it flowing, because I'm seeing it, then all
it is is just multipliers. How do you make it more? I mean, I'm
looking at the podcast index, and we're getting about three
sets a minute, but it's continuously three sets of
minutes. That's the 1% of whatever is flowing through.
Right now only the Sphinx app and a couple of tribes. Now
there's a lot of people boosting. There's a lot of over
boosting. There's a lot of gratuitous boosting. I see you
Paul and I boost myself from time to time in there, which is
illegal and illegal and
you can't do that. You'll go blind that way.
But, but that even by itself, okay, well we can get into,
because, you know, my head goes crazy when I think of all the
possibilities. You were going to take us yeah, at a talking about
Sphinx and how it all works and fits together.
I just want to go from like, try to do this from start to finish.
And it is, there's still confusion amongst even people
who are, you know, Bitcoin people about what exactly is
going on here. And let me just try to give it a rundown here.
So from start to finish, you're a podcaster, you have, let's
just say you have a Bitcoin podcast, you in your XML feed,
for your podcast, you will put in the value element with value
recipient in it. So it's in the simplest way, it is a value
element. And inside of that is a value recipient element with the
node key of your lightning node in it in a 100% value in the
split. So you've basically declared, here's my net, here's
my even declare to the world, here is my lightening public
node key. And it's going to be in 100% of any donations that go
to this podcast are going to go to that node, that lightning
node key, we aggregate it, we aggregate the value block, along
with everything else that we pull in when we when we do feed
aggregation, we aggregate it, we store it, then when applications
request your your feed information about your feed from
the index, we hand them back along with everything else, we
just hand them back the value block
with the node ID in it. Okay, so that's the basic way. I mean,
it's very simple.
You actually you actually tell that very much like Mr. Rogers,
and it's quite nice to listen to keep going at that pace. I
really do enjoy it.
I, you, I'm changing my shoes right now. So you may lose me.
And I'm gonna bring out puppets.
Sure,
yeah. Okay, so then that is finished. And it's just simple,
straight, straight up there, you put it in your feet, and we hand
it back to whatever apps asked for it. The only app currently
that does anything with it, is thinks and what Sphinx, the
Sphinx chat app does is you can create a tribe, once you're in
Sphinx, you can create what's called a tribe, which is just
think of it like a chat room, you can create a chatroom, which
is called a tribe. And in the tribe settings, you specify your
podcast Feed URL. Okay, if you're a Sphinx user, you have a
lightning node assigned to you. That's, that's the way things
works, things works by layering chat services on top of
lightning notes. Okay, so what you have when you're listening
to user is a lightning node that you that belongs to you. And you
create a tribe and put your podcasts Feed URL in the tribe
settings. And now, every time somebody joins your tribe, and
listens to your podcast, using that tribe, the podcasting
functionality, which will exist because you've now put your Feed
URL in it, anytime somebody listens, it will begin to stream
subsets to the public key that you listed in your XML at the
very beginning of this process. And the reason is because Sphinx
chat uses the podcast index API to get that information. So you
put the you put your Feed URL in the tribe, anytime somebody
refreshes the tribe or enters it or whatever. Sphynx chat makes a
request to the podcast and index API gets your value block keys
there. And that way they know where to send sets. Is it I hope
that makes sense. It's a very, the thing that makes it
complicated to understand initially, is this thinks is
there's a meta idea here within Sphinx that you're not the
Sphinx is not itself, a direct podcast, player app that you're
used to. Sphinx is a chat app who has that has layered
podcasting into the tribe system. They have it's a
beautiful way to do it. Because it's basically like a it's like
a chat room.
Oh, no, it's it's incredible what it delivers in extra
functionality. It's a lot of fun. Yeah, it's just,
it's just confusing initially, because you're like, where,
what? What am I doing? I mean, like, it's just so foreign to
what we're used to as a podcast. We're used to that what you've
talked about before that inbox style podcast. Yeah.
In fact, the way I view the tribes or the way I explain it
to, to people who are just witnessing it, it's like a one
show, App Player to one show podcast player. So a tribe is a
podcast player for one show, the one that you're interested in,
joining the tribe is like subscribing. And this
subscription comes with a chat and all kinds of fun stuff you
can do in that.
Yeah. And great way to describe it. Yeah.
And and what gets really interesting, I don't know, I
mean, just for the stuff that's layered on top, is the way
they've set it up, it's Sphinx chat, is you have the boost
button, you can then you know, just throw 100 or more satoshis
to the show. Now they've put to it their own internal logic in
that to flow that through the same value block and whatever's
in that block so that everyone gets a piece of that as well. So
they're starting to layer on top of the layer already. It's
really phenomenal.
Yeah, I think the one thing that I saw that was African mentioned
this, and may have been somebody in this Pink's tribe for Tales
from the Crypt, as somebody mentioned, and it kind of blew
me away, I don't know if you thought of this before. Somebody
was like, hey, so there should be a value block. And they said
something like, when is somebody going to use the value block to
fund a, like a multi part documentary? And it was like,
Okay, do a video podcast, not need an audit, take a video
podcast, and put the value block in the feed, and like, release
it as a cereal. And then you've got essentially got like, pay
direct, it's like YouTube at that point. But it's like self,
your no your self funding, or self publishing, your nominees
are always well, producing. That's one thing, right?
Right. Well, we there's one piece that we skip, or that you
made that you simplified on purpose, and that is the value
block gets. One. It's a percentage for each entry in
that value block. So 100% is how you start with just your key.
And then the index would like to add 1% to the index is key for
processing this since we have no other business model. And we
except for the value for value, which we do need to thank some
people in a moment.
Lots of people, we get to work two weeks worth,
so the app needs to get something and we've suggested
1%. And that's when the podcaster can start adding in
these other percentages. Just like you mentioned, for everyone
who participated in the documentary, or, you know,
whatever, whatever you want it to be whatever you want it to be
actually,
you can have three, you can have the guy who's the who's the
director, the person who's the, you know, maybe a couple of
producers basically
blowing up ASCAP, BMI, all the agencies, all the Performing
Rights agencies, all the publishing company
infrastructure, it is truly that when you see digital money, that
way, it gets exciting, man, holy, you could live,
you could literally have 10 people in that split block all
getting getting money and you don't the cool. Another cool
thing is you don't have to split it up. We'll just get split by
the app automatically. And so everybody just gets their
assigned portion. Not to worry about like, asking for a check.
Because you're just getting into right, like right now the other
thing I thought it was cool, when in the along those lines
was something like substack. I mean, there's no reason that
this should that this has to be tied to just podcast feeds, you
could easily put this in a generic RSS feed. And people
just boost you know, you can have reader apps, then people
just boost it inside feedback or whatever.
So right.
Yeah, I mean, like, what's, what's to keep Feedly and feed
Ben and netnewswire from Dune for doing the same wallet? Oh,
yeah. Yeah. And about that. And actually, you know, it's been,
and I got Paul and particularly Paul, because we've had the most
contact with him. But you know, and Evan, and there's a bunch of
people over to Sphinx who have really been great partners, and
that's we're just like, we just met And when we said let's do
this together, and that's where we're at, we all have kind of
the same goal in mind is to make all these things possible and
push, push this independence further. Yeah. And then he
deflated as he completely lost his train of thought. You may
save you.
Please, eating, eating a chocolate biscuit rather, try
not to cough my brains out. This stuff gets so big, it just gets
down in your ears down deep in you like,
okay, so I know where I was going. I go. Thank you before I
forget. So they've been so nice and so gracious with their
contacts as well. And so next Thursday after the no agenda
show, I'm going to speak at a Bitcoin meetup here in Austin,
this. Ryan from lightning Labs is hosting that. That's cool.
And Ryan has hooked me up with ROI from breeze. So I am excited
about that. Because from what Dave and I have seen, the breeze
mobile wallet functions in a way that it can perform keys and
outbound since it's it's a mobile wallet doesn't have a
watch tower or anything else. It's over that I know I'm not
exactly sure how it works. But it certainly can't receive keys
and at the moment, but unless they buffer that somewhere else,
but as a as a way to bake lightening stuff into an app,
they I think they pretty much already have everything you'd
need. But I'm going to have a chat with him on Tuesday. And
you know, maybe they'll create a reference app for us or
something. I mean, I, I just am so excited about all this code
laying around. And I know that if I just put those bits
together and some people talk for a little bit I know, I know
it would work I can see. Just code learn to code. What's your
problem? People come on, learn to
learn to code. Camp Free Code Camp.
That's my that's the that's my favorite asshole politician
thing to say. But learn to learn to code. Yeah, six, six months?
Don't worry about it. You'll be great. Oh, yeah. That's how
Yeah, it's not poly sigh. You know, it's,
it's more than nothing. If there's a reference app out
there. Like, if there was like a skeleton app somewhere on
GitHub, or wherever it needs to be. And that just kind of shows
the basics of, Okay, here's how you like, here's a wallet.
Here's a wallet and a podcast player app together in one. Just
like, okay, here you go to do this. That would be so, man,
that would be so nice. Yeah, just have a great starting point
for people to just look at it. Because I think you agree with
me. Like the podcast, it's easier for a podcasting. It will
make it easier for a lightning app to put in podcast
functionality than it is for a podcast app to put in lightning
functionality. Yeah, it seems that way to me. Yeah.
From the from the current knowledge base. Yeah, probably.
But the the overarching thing that's really nice here, and I
think that we see it, and I'm sure that Paul sees it and Ryan,
and is that podcasting may just be that application that gets
enough people into bitcoin. And just when not Bitcoin,
specifically, but thinking about digital money, and how you how
everything changes, because it's big. It's so big when you start
to think about it. And exactly as you said, you know, the next
step should be a sub stack. Now, there's already paywalls with
URLs that come that that some wallets have had baked in. But
when you get something that people a podcast app is real
personal, you know, and people get attached to it, and they
like it. And and they have often have feedback loops with the
developers, to you know, these relationships are going to
create more software, more things that utilize this type of
functionality. And because podcasting is pretty broad man's
a lot of people, you, you get one more show online, you're
bringing now maybe 100, maybe 1000, maybe 100,000 people, I
mean, it goes exponential at a certain point, and it markets
itself, so we just need a few more kickstarts. And, you know,
the I'm not sure when Sphinx is going full App Store.
But have it soon.
Yeah. And I and I hope that there's a way to position it. I
mean, this is, you know, the onboarding is all that's we've
we've always said that can't be our problem.
Yeah, it's it has to do that.
Yeah, but you know, we'll see.
But what you're talking about and people's podcasting apps
have been so personal. I was actually reading an article this
morning, it was saying, the title of the article is from is
from back in December of last year. It says, you know, back
when the world was normal, that is Spotify spent the title
Spotify spent a lot of money on podcast, podcasting, so it wants
you to start listening, please.
Was that great? That's in the headline.
Yeah, that's the headlines.
Where was this? What
order would publication? I think it's from TechCrunch. Good one.
Yeah. So it says that basically, it's like, and I don't know
whether they did this or what the deal is, but it says that
they're gonna stick a button in there for people who have not
used their you have not listened to a podcast and the app is
basically like a says this week, Spotify is introducing a new
button to help kick start the podcast habit is basically like,
they the articles talking about how they spent all this money,
and it says 400 500 million spent on podcasting alone in
2019. Now, and they just haven't many people using the app to
listen to podcasts.
Well, is this not something that I predicted? Oh, it is literally
100%. And, and the proof is in the pudding with the megaphone
purchase. And this is just my own analysis. So they have their
streaming ad insertion technology, which works very
well when you're listening to a podcast and the Spotify app.
And, you know, they can really jam something in there with
laser precision on the fly, you know, split second to market
based ad by insertion. They can't do that outside of
Spotify. They have, however, gotten the entire advertising
industry all jacked up about how they are going to be the bomb
diggity, and they can't deliver. And we saw the first signs of
that when they when they put the Michelle Obama podcast outside
of their hallowed halls and let every everyone suck it up. And
now they have megaphone which does dynamic ad insertion
outside of Spotify, and they need it, they need it to be able
to sell the ads and that they arrogantly thought. And this is
beautiful, because this is hasn't been analyzed yet. In
fact, it's really something that Daniel J. Lewis would probably
have some of the data on this. I don't think they can make it
viable by just grabbing a slice of the podcast audience and the
market share. And this is the power of apps. And oh, by the
way, that's what they're coming for next. That's what they're
coming for next. Oh, yeah, they're coming for the apps.
What do you mean? I mean, total,
they're gonna buy the apps they're gonna buy because the
apps is where the audience actually is. They thought the
audience was just with the podcaster.
I say, yeah,
now did they 10 million Joe Rogan listeners just grabbing a
number they convert 8 million, we still have 2 million. That's
a lot of people who are here.
And people yet a lot of people who are not there.
So so you know, the if I were Spotify, I'd be talking to Marco
right now.
I'm sure they have.
Yeah, that'd be talking to him. And I'd be saying we need to buy
you. And, and I think he'll be the first to go. And
are you sure? I don't know. He's these guys.
These guys are desperate. The guys are desperate, though.
You think you think they'll throw 20 million at somebody?
A lot? Yeah. A lot. Yeah. Marco has the audience. And and then
he can incorporate the dynamic streaming stuff. And that's
fine. I'm very happy. A lot of people will like it. And I know
that 10 years down the road, when it's become like am radio,
and you can't stand the the commercial interruptions. Tina's
already complaining bitterly to me, she's, uh, Instagram,
YouTube, Twitter. And, and, you know, she's your typical user,
although she was a hell of a lot. I mean, she's walking
around here, too. Hey, how many sets you know, she's walking
around like she does and she knows what's going on. How many
SATs in a Bitcoin? Oh, yeah, I know this number. So she doesn't
give herself enough credit for how technically evolve she is.
But she doesn't have an ad blocker on her iPad. And you
know, I don't know if she's ever even thought about it.
So she gets the ads. I can't function without an ad blocker
these days is awful,
right? So she gets the ads. And now it's before the YouTube
video starts is 15. Second one, you can't stop. You can't skip
forward and there's at least two more than they have mid rolls.
They have oversold. They literally don't Have the
inventory so they're just, and they're gonna ruin it because
they have to grow. They can't diminish. I mean, if they would
stop D platforming people, maybe they wouldn't have this problem.
I'm not sure in the grand scheme of things, how much it matters.
It's gonna be
tough. It's gonna be tough for them to continue doing this.
They're all look Google's already saying, Oh, you know
that free photo thing? Yeah, you're gonna pay for that?
Well, I'm just a sysadmin. You're the you're the media.
Veteran. It does. Does that tell you that? I'm not trying to say
this. Does. Let's see, Christopher I seen let me get
back into this other way. Chris, for icing in the mastodon it
posted the other day, like a list of all the all the Spotify
purchases. He's like, you know, 50 million for this 100 million
for this tailor made for this is like the man He's like, man,
they're just on a spree. Mm hmm. And have they gotten themselves
into a situation where they're having where they now have to
spend money? Is this as a pyramid themselves to where they
have to spend more money to buy the next thing in order to make
the previous thing they spent too much money on pay off?
Yeah, yes. So the answer is yes, their business model is not a
profit making model. When you have to pay, regardless of your
income, you have to pay the license holder for the content,
you are using a fee. It's almost a no win situation, because the
fees are never going to go down. They're only going to go up and
these will be renegotiated and the license holders, which is
the ASCAP BMI, you know, the performing royal Performing
Rights Organizations, they're bringing it in, and they're
distributing it. But also a lot of this is done in direct deals
with record labels. So they, they have Spotify, by the balls,
essentially. And Spotify has to monetize that. So, you know, if
if someone's a monthly user, and they're just banging that stuff
on four machines, at the same time, that's probably a revenue
losing user. Most people on Spotify, have it for free, and
then they get ads. And that's, you know, that's also a money, a
business where the revenue keeps dropping year over year, there's
just a lot of, there's a lot of ads to be sold a lot of
inventory out there. So podcasting is beautiful, because
they saw it in there in the typical corporate way. Here's
all this stuff for free. So we still take this stuff for free
and offer it with a player to our subscribers. And we can sell
ads cost us nothing. If we don't have to sell ads still cost us
nothing. We have a revenue generator, someone spent time on
our site that cost us less, that is a win for them. So I think
they arrogantly thought that they could convert the entire
podcast that universe to using Spotify to listen to after all,
they're number one in music. And it turns out, no, that's for the
same reason people don't use necessarily use the apple
podcasting app. They want other features, different suggestions,
selections, there's a whole plethora of reasons people who
are in the podcast business, and are in the business of
delivering a great experience to you. That's the podcast app
developers. Yeah. And and to just jump in and think, oh, we
can do this, where they've spent most of their time focus and
resources on the streaming ad insertion side and the making
advertisers happy side, they still have a curve?
Well, you know, the thing about it is, I don't maybe they think
that they know something that Apple doesn't know, because
Apple has been in this game for much longer than they have. And
they have, they have more of a lock on the podcast ecosystem
than Spotify. And I don't know about if that's still applicable
necessarily, I'd have to think about that for a while. But I
mean, they've, they're essentially have cloned a lot of
what Apple's the model was where they have, like, you know, they
they're selling subscription music services, and they now try
to have a dominant position in podcasting and that kind of
thing. You have to think that they should have looked at Apple
and said, Okay, well, apples had this podcast ecosystem and been
a dominant player in it for many, many years, and they've
never tried to monetize it. Right? Maybe that should tell us
something. Maybe Maybe they know something we don't know, which
is trying to monetize that is going to be extremely difficult.
Right? Well, Apple's core business. This model is having
people pay for stuff.
So they've never really gone the advertising route. They
facilitated a lot of it. We'll see. But they did it in news
like so like you have Apple news plus, which is a subscription
service, but they've never, they've never, never mentioned
anything about a subscription podcast service. No, and there
is no, and that tells me that tells me that they they may see
it as an as not a viable like, is not a winnable market.
And I agree, I think it's not a winnable market, having run a
podcast network. It's too much hassle, once you're responsible
for people's experiences at that level, with things that are
beyond your control, necessarily. Or if you have a
large stable of programming, it's a nightmare. It's an
absolute nightmare to manage. That's not the case, you can't
even call customer service at Apple. Yeah, that doesn't exist.
Same with Google. And Amazon actually understands that, but I
don't think to understand broadcasting and audiences in
that way necessarily. for Apple, I think there's, there's a
couple directions they could go. One I thought of which would be
a very typical typical corporate response, you know, because the
iTunes namespace is universally used for indexing in many ways,
although I think we're kind of off of that. But it's still used
by most they could file one of those Silicon Valley lawsuits
against Spotify, and anyone else using this to make money because
that they do have a patent on that. So you know, because they
had me in early, I consulted with them a little bit. And they
created that and they put me they were very kindly put my
name in the patent filings. And this is all prior art. And they
only patented the, their own tags. And their own namespace.
And I'm not exactly sure legally, if there was a
copyright, I think it's a patent. But I'm not sure exactly
what the legality is. So they could go that way. The person's
name personally, seeing that they mainly want to spell sell
hardware and closely integrated software, I would say, an
obvious way for them to go is to selfishly I'd say, support
everything the other guys are doing namely us blow it open
wide, NPR is dying. They really want season tags and a couple
other things that we've been solidifying, that'll go into the
namespace. Apple can support those. And just in support, you
know, shoot us us as a buffer, you know, use us as a testing
ground. I don't care. But we'll figure out what works. And then
when it works, then you accept it. And then all of a sudden,
everyone will be super happy. And stuff all the time. Yeah,
exactly. No will break your app. Don't worry about Yeah, yeah, of
course, promises, Promises, promises kept and delivered.
Yeah, we push code to the left side, oh, cross your fingers.
What the hell?
But um, so and in that way. Apple is very dear to me.
They've done this so well. They've been so kind and nice to
the whole concept. That'll be great. And, you know, I don't
know. I mean, I don't know what they're spending their money on.
They may not have time to spend their money on this.
Well, it just seems like and I still think they will do you
know what, these days maybe do a podcast plus thing, which that's
the thing is it? That's That's fine. I mean, no, but there's
plenty of exclusive stuff on all kinds of platforms. That's not a
problem. The problem I have is not with anybody doing exclusive
stuff is people try in this what is seems to be what Spotify is
trying to do is people trying to come in and control the market.
The whole ecosystem.
Yeah, but they're going about it the wrong way. This is this is
their fundamental mistake is that they think that that having
one piece of content that that brings everybody else in that's
just been proven not to be true.
Nobody cares.
No, I mean, well, no, you're right. This there's too much
choice. There's no
choice. That's exactly why nobody cares. And this is and
and this is this is an example from my life, and I think it
applies to almost everybody. Okay, ma. I already have way too
many podcasts subscriptions in my in my podcast app. Yeah, I
can't listen. To them all on a weekly basis, I cannot listen
to, you know, six hours of no agenda. And, you know, three,
three hours of accidental tech, another hour and a half of the
incomparable I mean, I could just go on and on and on. I
mean, I've got on a weekly basis, I've got 30 hours of
programming this sitting on my bucket podcast player waiting
for me to listen to, and I can't do it all. I mean, I got a 15
minute commute to work. There's no way I can listen to all that.
So if you drop an excuse, if you drop a new exclusive, that's who
I mean, who even though he dropped, he dropped some new
person isn't exclusive on your platform. I just can't I don't
care. Because I've already got too much stuff. I can't even
listen to you.
It's not for Apple, I'm saying having run one. It's not worth
the headache. You want to have meetings with the talent, you
don't want to hear their gripes you don't want to eat? And
conversely, no one wants to be in podcasts to be happy. Oh,
okay. They bought my show or whatever. And you got some
money, but it's not really gonna make you. I don't think it makes
anybody happy. Apple wants their users to be happy. They want
people to have a great experiences. Yeah. And and they
hide, you know, they started off the right way for them by
highlighting NPR, a lot of the Public Radio Podcast, classy pie
in production. You know, that's, I think that's kind of the brand
that the apple podcast app got
is a good marriage. Yeah. And they
can continue that, you know, but don't don't let your supply dry
up. Because you don't have the outlets. People want certain
features. I'm not saying you got to put the lightning nodes into
your app, but wouldn't reject it.
All right. Yeah.
But just so you know, if possible, I think that would be
a smart business move to keep up with the trends and not because
these trends right now are being or were until we came along, you
know, with a hold my beer strategy. Innovation was being
dictated for you know, for seven years by will Apple won't do it.
And now for 10 years. Oh, Apple and Spotify won't do it. Don't
let those douchebags dictate what you do apple. Yeah. Look,
it's the developers on the outside brothers. They're the
ones pushing your buttons, listen to them.
Go. Did you get that clip?
Yes, I did
play that global future councils at the forum and convened on a
number of topics from clean air to cryptocurrency and they draw
from a wide network of thought leaders from academia,
government, business and civil society. The United States
global future Council is a group of foreign policy experts who
have met throughout the past year to discuss the principles
that might guide foreign policy over the next decade, I caught
up with a few to learn how US foreign policy could shape the
global recovery. And in this podcast, a few of their members
give us a sampling of recommendations for how the US
can deploy both its thought leadership and its resources for
the global good. their thoughts go beyond the politics of the
recent years, looking from a 50,000 foot view at what major
principles will drive decision making in the years ahead. We
have great opportunities if we're able to get away from
kicked off Twitter, our own front yard, and focus a little
bit on people who actually have needs. That's what the
international community is about serving. Subscribe to the great
reason and Spotify and wherever you get your favorite podcasts.
And please take a moment to rate and review us. I'm Linda
leucaena from the World Economic Forum. And this is the great
reset. Yes, I
subscribe to this podcast,
as you know, is your favorite pocket.
top of the list. They're short, they're half hour. They're
totally globalist. Yes, it's everyone speaks pretty well. You
can chop it up, make clips and laugh with these suckers. It's a
great podcast.
It takes every buck so you're sure does that. Excuse me? Rona
said that there's a couple of things in this clip that, uh,
that light, which was the last one first is they said, Be sure
and follow us on Spotify on Apple and Spotify. Yeah, you you
go back five years ago, it was only apple. Mm hmm. Now
everybody says apple and Spotify and sometimes they just say
Spotify.
Oh, really?
Oh my god. If you go to the rip to the great reset website,
which interestingly is hosted by Lipson. If you go to the great
reset spot site, his podcast site, it says like up at the top
you Have a like email yet three links, you got email us, RSS
feed, and Spotify. Wow. Does your does your three, listen on
Spotify, there's no apple. There's nothing up there except
Spotify. They're the only private silo company up there.
So let me say that silo apples not really a silo. They're,
they're not, they're not locking anything in So, but they're the
only private company out there,
right? If you write his email has the raw feed, and then
Spotify?
Yeah. I wonder why. Now, I wonder why that is. I mean, I'm
not gonna say there's, you know, a anything in this context? a
conspiracy was I think that just may be maybe a default or
something like that. But I think that it's it's very curious.
That, to me, this Spotify, I guess just just through all the
money they spent, they have put themselves in this dumb in this
position this to be this monster in the podcasting space. But
it's, it's obvious this, they're still struggling here.
Yes. And and so I know that Spotify is a media company. So
they have marketed themselves. They've spent significant money
on chiclet campaigns and buttons and banners and all kinds of
stuff. They do a lot of outreach. And they have the
budget for it, because you know, they raised a lot of money in
their IPO. And, you know, they have cash. But the writing is on
the wall I I've been looking at some analysts and seeing if
anyone can see what to me is clear as day is they are going
to have a longer path converting their existing music users to
adding podcasters a life or moving away from wherever they
use their podcasts. Because even that, even though we've had
these portability, ways to export your subscriptions into a
different podcast app. It's it's not that easy. And this is a I
think there's a there's a little bit of arrogance at play here.
They did they did it all right. You know, they got the big.
What's the the big consulting firm? Mackenzie? Mackenzie? No,
yeah, they got me. Yeah, got McKenzie, there's a big report,
which showed that this was a genius idea. And this is the way
to go. You know, they they did the all the corporate stuff,
right? they they they said it's going to cost a lot of money.
They made the acquisitions that acquisitions, they promised. I'm
not sure megaphone because they were dancing around megaphone
for a while. I think that was to me, that was the move that
showed, oh, yeah, we can't quite deliver it yet. We don't have
the audience. So we might as well buy this piece. And as I
said earlier, I'm quite confident that we'll look at
acquiring some apps thinking that that's the audience and and
that may very well be so that may be the way it goes to but I
think you and I will always be on the outside.
That's what pretty comprehensive comic strip bloggers on the on
the mastodon was like, What if? Spotify buzz podcast index? And
you said, What if podcast index? Exactly.
Yeah, yes, yes.
And I should go through their offices, start putting some
posted notes on some of the gear there. My initials on it. As
well, while you're coughing the lung out Dave maybe now is the
time to thank people who have been supporting the entire
project to date before sat started streaming and flowing.
This is the value for value model. This goes into podcast
LLC, it supports all of the index 100% and we've had we
didn't we weren't able to thank anyone on the last show since we
had Tom and Kevin on from buzzsprout Have you heard from
those guys recently, we scare the shit out of them and they
don't want to talk to us anymore. It's been very quiet.
They're just busy because we're like, like hey, this is a great
talk. Let's talk about lightning. Seriously, oh crap.
Okay, what
was this and I would like to say that with all of the lightning
talk looks like thanks to you. And of course thanks to help
from Martin my feeds are getting all sorted out. And and and this
show will be published with chapters and a transcript by
which I like in the in the caption format. And even with
the Peter from what Bitcoin did. T is so excited about All these
features he said, Yeah, I can't wait, you know, for the
streaming for the for the streaming sets, said, but
chapter seasons Ah, this is exactly the stuff I've been
waiting for. And yeah, you know, so as, as we drive forward, you
know, we're still doing this in order, you know, and and even
I'm getting into it now and I'm very excited to start, you know,
getting people to help contribute to my chapters, and
maybe doing some integration with no agenda show dotnet,
which already has this kind of this functionality. So these
things are super important. And, and this will drive a lot more
value to app developers, just by I mean, gosh, this pod verse, I
hadn't really played with that much, man, that's pretty damn
complete.
It's a great app. And, and,
yeah, and pod Bay, is that also tied into the index? Are they
not tied into the index? Yeah, they are. Yeah, it's another
another fantastic weather app.
The web apps are really bonkers. Yeah, they like if by us
providing the Corps access so that they said that web apps
function properly with the API that really helped a lot of
people Ah, I mean, a cuz that I don't Well, I mean, there's
really not I don't know how many other API's there are any way
but I don't think there's there's much out there this
Well, there's there's not any this free besides right. And but
the other thing you know, just not have not been able to query
it from a web app is killer. I mean, it's bright you can't we
can't function that way. So we actually fixed a course problem
yesterday. Oh, cool thing but yeah, I think I was having
problems with the course. Course headers not being returned. When
when there's a non 200 error message that should be Oh, I
hate it. I hate
it when that happens. Especially not 200 error Damn.
Then that messes you up every time Okay, let's see.
So we've received donations some of them are recurring at this
point which keep our machines going which is highly
appreciated and and we have a nice buffer to to keep moving
forward. But the the work does not stop and look at all you get
you get a mastodon server by the way. If you if you already are
on a mastodon server, you can just follow us You don't have to
join it can be at Adam at podcast index social and at Dave
at podcast index that social and we're federated so you get all
the other toots and bongs and everything. A
full cast of characters and indexes. Yes.
And and of course, no agenda social.com flows into that from
time to time, which confuses me. I'm like, What are these guys
doing on my timeline? Oh, yeah, it's federated. Now I get it
throws me off every time crazy,
isn't it? It's like, Oh, yeah, of course. And well, I Why do I
because I'll reply on no agenda. And it'll it'll show up in my
pockets index time. I'm like, how did that what side Am I on?
Like, holy crap, man.
Yeah, he does. He does face Joe is confusing.
But you get that you get the podcast, you get the innovation,
you get the love. And we're trying to put as much value out
there as possible. So who do we have to thank Dave?
We got Charles current. Who? Let's see, he gave us $5. And
pay says PayPal refused my automatic payment this month. So
I'm sending it manually. Thanks for all your hard work
very much. Yeah.
That is something to say is if if you papers bad to cancel
automatic subscriptions,
oh my god, and they'll and they'll say it was the show's
fault. Yeah, no time. Yeah.
So if you have an automatic subscription. If you don't mind
checking it from time to time, just make sure it's still work.
Like Wait, we've got a few automatic guys and I want to
make sure Jeremy knew Cameron rose Mitch downy cold acid,
Keith Gibson, David Norman, Derek Fisker, Soren, Miller, and
Martin. And we've got a few anonymous. thank thank you guys.
I want to make sure just because you're all around automatic
subscriptions automate Sure. I don't miss thanking you guys
from time to time. And
yes, they really appreciate you. Thank you for keeping individual
machines up and running. Absolutely.
Yeah. See Scott? Scott jabber. He says they said the red button
works. I didn't. I did not see a place to enter a note on paypal
though. This is important work. And I love hearing what you all
are doing with this project on the podcast. I wish I had some
talent to donate but I'm a mere user. So I'm going to hang out
on mastodon and see what's going on. Cool. I'd love to support a
server at this level supports it. Thanks guys. And he says
scotch Alber. The tea is silence A deck successfully. Yeah, yes
Got you. You got you got our object storage bill.
Oh nice. Oh yeah, you
don't get a server you get the object storage that's where
that's where all the backups are. That's critical function as
critical functionality. Once one of these days when something
goes down you're gonna pay for it to come back to life. Say Ben
Benjamin Bellamy oh yeah from Casta pod. Ah love Benjamin $45
and 70 cents and that's a cool number two says love great
number. Yeah. Did it love from si si 457 o. p od aka Casta pot.
Oh, lakes p
o Thank you cast pod
you guys are saving podcasting.
We're working on it brother.
Go back Yes. See, Paul love and he sent us 50 bucks. Love this
concept looking forward to getting more involved sir daddy
cast from dead cast rewind.
He's been around for a long time. Nice to hear from him.
Daddy cast Yes,
exactly.
All right.
Now here's some This is there's some naming challenges this week
because lots of international donors and it's gonna strangler
Strobel here. Daniel Vesey check as soon as five bucks Thank you
Daniel. See oh we get an automatic $1 $1 a month donation
from Mark grant you make you know it's like oh you know one
buck $1 a month no every all of this is absolutely
absolutely and hey man you assign you assign the value that
for you is valuable so 100% take that is 100% valuable Thank you.
Yeah Nothing Nothing is scoffed at everything is appreciated as
much as we
say in the old country we had client in ear just throw the new
beard yeah got that he who does not honor the small is not
worthy of the large
like it Yeah, but this bringing it bringing the old world
I try.
Okay, now this is this is a good one.
Yeah, Eldar,
CAD, CAD de Burgh Eldar coup de Burgh off.
I think that's something Joe Biden said the other day.
confetti.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay, so he sent us $10 Hi, Adam and Dave. My name is yell dark
could have Burger King the burger ash? I can't
you want to spell it? I might be able to give it a shot.
KU di Excuse me? KUDAIBERG in a V.
Qu di bariga. An Avi. Could be better off code. I'd have to see
it. Was he from
Kazakhstan?
Oh, that would be the reason why neither of us can decode it.
Okay.
Well, yeah, it's
okay because he probably knows a hunter Biden. From his
Kazakhstan travels.
He's on the board if he's on the board of the podcast, hosting
company. I Adam and Dave My name is yell Dart, CUDA. Bergen off.
I am a podcaster from Kazakhstan. Very nice country
cool. At the moment, there are only about 100 podcasts and
kazakstan and your project helps me to properly develop
podcasting my country. Thank you for really developing
podcasting. I enjoy listening to podcasting 2.0 every week.
That's great. And I want to make sure that we get him lightning
enabled as soon as possible. there's a there's a side that
hasn't been exposed too much yet. In this realm clearly in
the podcasting room. I'll bet you that know a crapload about
Bitcoin though. So
yes, you can be very interesting. And you can do
something else for me Eldar, you said that there are he said in
your note at the moment there are about 100 podcasts in
Kazakhstan. If you know what those are, can you put them in a
list and send them to me just to make sure that we have them all?
Yeah, exactly. And I want to thank my gosh, I forget who all
those people are air quotes, who have been just delivering pile
after pile after pile of podcasts that aren't listed
anywhere that don't exist. They just in the ether, man, but this
some crazy stuff that people show up with. It's really cool.
Yeah, so Send us a list of 5000 Polish podcasts.
Right? I mean, and how many were dupes in the database?
I don't, I don't even know. It's only about a third of the way
done. When somebody gives us a whole ton of stuff, I have to
like trickle them out slow. Otherwise it takes forever to
like, catch up. Right. Right does that. I don't have the I
don't have the slick aggregator chops that like Mike Kelly does.
So my mic, I shouldn't say this about Mike Kelly. He's like a
database freakin wizard. And I have like half, half of unlike
half of he is who he is. So I really appreciate him jumping in
there and well, and
he's got a new name now. He's now machine gun. Mike Kelly,
Michigan like everybody machine gun, Mike Kelly here on the
index.
He's, he's offered a he's offered to help and in a couple
of different ways. The guy doing podcast images.
How's that coming along?
I have no idea. And I think he's been tied up with some stuff
too. But he's offered to help in 100 ways and right about the
time that I got that I got hit with the Rona. So I hadn't
really planned on catching back up with him because we need he's
always been involved since day one. Yeah, it
would be great if we can get the the images server set.
Yeah, yeah, I think I think he'll, he's gonna roll back
around to that at some so I gotta, I gotta call him on the
phone. I need to call him on the phone.
Oh, my God, how 1980's of you.
I'm gonna throw them on there. Now I wrote. Greg Thomas dabbled
in a $5 a month subscription. Thank
you, Dave. And Greg. Sorry.
Do you see that? Do you see that? segue? I
do. Yes. It was very slick. Nothing. You know, you're you're
a natural born podcaster. I've, I've recognized this.
I'm gonna bro.
Yeah, you you have all the chops? Maybe you grew up around
around Country radio. I can tell. Cuz you're
bcck Birmingham.
Let's see. Got it.
Greg Thomas gave us $5 a month. Thank you, Greg. And that is
that is good for the beta search server that I'm doing right now.
Oh, excellent.
Yeah. And we need support. Asian characters.
So we need a separate server for that.
Yeah, it's a it's like a whole different set of Unicode ranges
then and LA is not supported out of the box by default with our
search server so it's gonna be a little tricky to get it. Wow.
That is interesting.
All the little things you don't think about? It is it's a ton of
stuff like if you search in Japanese right now you get
nothing. Well, that's no good mean. Yeah, we got Deborah
Deborah Slav Slevin Scott Sullivan's coach. Is that Tony's
gonna be a train wreck? dub dub or slow Slevin? slovensko gave
us $5
Thank you. Yes. Thank you very much. I think I recognized the
name of the okay
then maybe I know it in a garden.
Yeah, I think so.
Okay, this is a good one. I like Leann Manzini, Leanne gave us
$100 change this
our first female donation can we
No, No, it didn't. No, no, no, this is the second female
donation
because the sausage fest over podcast index gotta stop people
is is not acceptable.
We need we we could seriously use of female energy about that
would be helpful.
Leanne Manzini gave us $100 She said she said that she heard
about the poquoson index from Todd at blueberry. Oh, cool.
During the spark Christian podcast conference. Oh,
evidently he mentioned the project and in what she said Is
he he asked people to donate money if they could.
Oh, that's so sweet.
Yeah, I really appreciate that. That is great.
Well, and it paid off. Thank you very much, Leanne. Thank you for
supporting us and and Ben, the future of podcasting. You know,
I
think there's, yeah, thankfully. And that's and I think there's
really some synergy there. Because just like I think we
talked about this a few weeks ago, the winds of censorship and
freedom, anti free speech. That stuff changes all the time. And
and it's a slow pendulum, but it does move. And I think there's a
lot of a lot of concern amongst religious circles now about belt
censorship, whereas it used to be, you get back 25 years it was
the exact opposite.
Well, yes. And again, the corona lockdowns prove that all kinds
of things can take place that may not even be constitutional.
So and that is that right to practice your Religion is in
fact in the same amendment about the freedom of speech. So it's
so the buttressing up against that. Yeah, absolutely. And in
Christianity in general is still persecuted so many countries
worldwide and dare I say the pope is even acting weird.
The Pope is acting weird. Yeah.
That's right. That's a marquee for you. Yeah. Right. That'll be
the clip. I'll make that as the soundbite for the soundbite. The
Pope is acting weird.
Donald Donald Winkler gave us $10. I could not find an open
dog. So thank you. Just Justin's Justin zeltser gave us $25
donation. Thank you, Justin. I found a note from him. He raised
raid. raid Jacobsen gave us $33 33 cents.
We know where he's coming from. Thank you very much, Ray. It's
appreciated.
He says in the morning from sir Ray. Yes, in the morning to use
her magic numbers always appreciated. And I mean, like,
the magic numbers are an overdrive with the lightning
stuff. And the like that is just off the chart. Isn't that
everybody? Everybody wants their? You know, everybody's got
their certain magic number sets?
for boosting? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can even see streaming
a certain number SATs as well just identify myself. I mean,
there's gonna be all kinds of stuff you can put in that. But I
kind of like it. It's, it's fun to see what you know, I'm
looking at at the index side of it. But even on, you know, in
the Sphinx app, you just see, okay, clicks, and you can just
see who's listening. And it's very exciting. It's something so
exciting about seeing that value flow, it doesn't matter how big
or little it is, it's completely irrelevant. It could be you
know, jelly beans.
I love the I love the shaming that goes into people who do
Yeah.
What a week boost.
Somebody comes in a boost, like 20 sets. everybody's like, well,
I get that out of here.
But also, man, it's a very interesting dynamic. Sorry to
come back to this. But Tales from the Crypt has a 500 set
join fee.
And I know it's like 10 grand.
It's like 10,000 10,000. I literally sat there like, I
don't know, man. I don't know. Seriously, I'm like, that's a
buck.
And I'm in this like, of course, I want to be in it. And I see
messages like 150 SATs. I'm like, Oh my goodness, in that
many messages. Were talking about fractions of a penny. It's
an interesting dynamic that goes on in
your head. I saw that I saw the 10,000 entry fee on the tribe.
And I was like, I was like, Okay, well, let me check my
balance. I was like, wait, okay, I only have 27,000 sets in here.
That's like half of what I got.
But as, as Paul said, which I told him on steel free is so
expensive. That's what we've learned, you know, the free
stuff Silicon Valley that that what has been taken away from
what we've willingly given up is so expensive, compared to a
10,000 sat join fee. Yeah, it's really, just if you think about
it, your life will be richer overnight by stepping off of
those platforms and onto something like this.
And the FOMO of not being in the tales from the crib tribe got
me. I was like, of
course, of course. You gotta be in there. Yeah.
They get the icon the creep. Yeah. Could I
actually find myself like someone does it like a paid
graph to look at him like 50 cents? No, I'm not that
interested in the chat. You just hide it though. You shouldn't
have the big box enticingly. It's just saying message. You
know, whatever. And I know that big box looking at me.
Now Paul knows what he's doing. David Langford gave us
1234 $12 34 cents. Oh, beautiful. Thank you. Oh, and he
said that the reason? I have a note, okay. But no, he said that
the reason that he donated was because he heard us talking
about the jello and greencare. He's like, I'm
that guy. Yeah, we always have one or two.
Okay, this is a donation from bumstead media. And I don't, I
couldn't find a name so I'm just going to create it that way. But
he says he or she says when sermonaudio has the same episode
on multiple feeds, it's a way of organizing content. If a
listener is grieving, they may want to subscribe to an RSS feed
on the topic of grief with various pastors on the feed.
Other listeners may only want to subscribe to their own pastor,
this isn't spam. But there may be better ways to solve this
with any any Keep up the great work, you guys. You guys need to
buy podcast index.com before the price goes up, or before Spotify
buys it just a spiky
summit, someone clearly already has that.
That Okay, that. So
what I would just say to that in response is not necessarily a
function of the index. I mean, it will be very easy to. And I
say that in my non developer voice to create a Web Player
that focuses only on a certain category or is curated. All of
this can be can now be done. It doesn't have to be the you get
everything in this app. I mean, especially now with
pw A's.
Yes. And I am kind of waiting for the my grandmother's podcast
player I it's, I actually have Martin kind of pegged as the guy
who would pick that up when remote controls came out for
televisions and it's still that way today, the more advanced
ones. I think Sony was the first you could flip it over and had
what we call the granny interface and the big ass
buttons. You know, you can get the phone now
like jitterbug.
Yeah, the jitterbug? Exactly. You can get that phone with the
huge buttons. Yeah, you know, there's a whole market of people
who are 60 plus 65. Plus, gosh, I'm so close to that has ever
had to say but it's but the reason I say it is because
there's a generation that didn't quite grow up with the same
technology curve. And so they're a little behind a little
intimidated. And I think that's what I like. Because I look at
pod verse like holy crap, this got all the dials and buttons
and widget and bells and whistles. And look at pod
friend, and it's smiling at me. Oh, it's helping me find my
stuff. So you know, there's another version out there for
the seniors app. I'm sorry to put it that way. But that's the
truth. It's a market it's a huge market and you know, and then
put senior stuff in there.
Get no give don't give your grand mall quanta TV seen that
thing? Yes. little clip from Calais. Oh, my goodness. Clay
said he doesn't claim that he doesn't even know how it works.
It's like It's like like, oh, like a wiki pedia had sex with a
podcast player. And, and they and out came JSON glue. I'm not
quite sure what it is. It's crazy. It's got
blood in it. Like I don't know what that thing does.
It's like a Wolfram Alpha. You know, you got like, filters and
things flows is very interesting. It's
that's what used to happen when somebody is like, hey, I want to
use freedom controller and it's like, what what exactly does it
do? And I'm like, Yeah, all this. I'm like, just don't worry
about it.
Good point. That's probably the same experience people had
coming into view freedom controller like what does this
do?
Like? You know, if I have to explain it to you, then just
don't worry about it. Forget. Okay, last last, you got to help
me here. He actually sent
a Pronunciation Guide pronunciation.
Let's see here. This is
Alvarado mud.
I can't do spelling. I can't see this out. ARCA here See? He says
let me see if I can spell it phonetically. It is Munoz short
z. What is the short z
windows? windows instead of windows?
I don't know it's ay ay Quinn's AI as in AI letters. Or AI? And
then humans as in queue with a long s. ai ai man I got no idea.
It doesn't help. Yeah, cute. A Quinn's? What's this public key?
Just use that that's easier. might recognize and vice public?
Good. We got it. We got a donation from 032 cents. Oh,
thank you, Elvira. And I'm so sorry that I butchered your
name. I told him an email. I was like, I'm gonna butcher this.
Well. You set yourself up for that brother. Okay, I'm gonna
have to get involved with these names pretty soon.
Yeah, I know. I'm wrecking it. You're the language guy. I
know. I know. I don't have it in front of me. You know what we'll
do better. We'll be better.
Really excited. He says really excited about the vibe going
across the free podcast world to improve and protect podcasting
for us all. So here is some treasure for the index. On a
side note, I have to point out that we the weekly PCs 20 is
like a scrum of scrums in the Agile world but in a podcast
form the index is innovating on so many fronts. And understand
what Scrum of scrums is.
Well the scrum is if I understand Scrum is like a
technology department thing and then the boss They'll come in
and they say, Okay, we'll do a scrum and first we do a stand up
meeting. And, and then we and we go off and make some happen real
quick. And we come back and we talk about it. Something like
that. I think
I think so too. Yeah. it like a sprint or something. Yeah, they
strategy
agile development. Okay.
Yeah, that's what we are. Yeah, we're all about.
We're all about being agile. Yeah.
We had no idea what we're doing at the dump. And we're agile, we
are agile with it.
We are the antithesis of Silicon Valley programming and
development.
He is right though, because we are. We are spray week and we're
tackling a lot of stuff here.
Oh, well, this we rarely
talk. We do this once a week board meeting. Yeah,
that's exactly right.
He gave us $40 Thank
you. Wow.
Thank you. Yeah, that's it. That's what we got nice.
The value for value system very simple. Uh, were you the value
is right there on the index. We are providing all of this to
move podcasting forward to preserve it as a platform for
free speech. And we are in the process of retooling it as a
platform of value all of this taking place before your very
eyes, you can join in both the podcast index.org if you'd like
to support us, we accept time, talent and treasure the three
T's treasure is always appreciated. You'll see the big
red Donate button on that. And if you want to sign up as
developer there's a menu button and you can also anyone can join
the podcast index dot social. If you're already on mastodon you
can just follow Dave Right over there. And thank you very much
for supporting podcasting. 2.0
Yeah, this is there's no g English like podcast index.org
slash blah, blah. It's like this. I keep my my brain wants
there to be
like something to just shorten. Well, now that you said it, you
never know. stuff does come rolling in string like that.
Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad that that NPR is getting involved in
the namespace because Yeah,
I saw that what what's the what's her name? who showed up?
Stacy, Stacy's name? Yeah,
yeah, Stacy goers. She's popped in and said that they that
they've been needing some stuff for a while. And so I'm glad to
see. I'm glad to see some of that. Because there. We know,
there's need out there amongst a lot of a lot of players. And we
just want to make sure that there's voices there because
those those are those are important. Ultimately, the
namespace, you know, is going to encompass lots of things. Is it
at the beat this beginning phase, which will which will end
on the 15th? Which is what is that two days from now? Yeah.
But will we've already got lots of stuff wrapped up? I mean,
there's, there's phase one is pretty much
you want to just run down phase one quickly. So we know what's
in there. And then this will be locked in and deployable. Right?
That's the idea.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But we can get there too, to get her. Um, but
the whole, you know, in all do that first. And then we'll talk
about that other part. But the see the, what we get so far is
the lock tag, podcast locked me out, get transcript funding
chapters, a person and soundbite.
And first person, is that equals guests equals host, or is it
that does that not make it in that way?
Yeah, no, it, it is, we're gonna, that'll be the only tag
that we're going to have to talk about, because we may end up
having to punt that to two to two phases. Because yet, there's
there's just still talk going on. And, and, and things don't
need to be finalized. If they're still being talked about. Right?
We may end up putting that phase two, we'll just have to see,
however, how that rolls out after the 15th. Because what'll
happen is on the 15th, we will we'll we'll just say, okay,
phase one is closed. And here's the ones that are finalized,
which at this point, is everything but person, right?
And then all those will be good to go. And then we'll talk about
person and say, Well, yes, no, maybe blah, blah, blah. And
we'll we'll punt that if we need to. And then we'll start. We'll
start with phase two. And we'll set a closing date for it. And
we'll just work towards that. So I have a request we're doing
what we need is we need a page on podcast index, which lists
that I know we have something on the GitHub, which could flow
from that potentially, but we need a list of who's what you
can get for what so what apps, what hosting companies etc. who
are supporting what we're just gonna need it and especially for
the apps because now we don't really have a full list of all
the apps that have the features they support. That's something
that someone if you want to donate one of the First two T's
time talent treasure that will be fantastic if someone can
maintain that maintain a page, maintain which features work on
each one links, all that beautiful stuff. Same goes for
hosting companies have. I'm very impressed with the work
buzzsprout has done. Yes, that I've seen on their chapters and
their transcripts. And I've given them some feedback. And I
understand a little bit better now that how their process
works. And so they, they those guys are fast. They're just
gonna keep innovating Casta pod, I think supports everything at
this point.
I don't know about other hosting facilities. A lot of them have
implemented the lock tag, that's good. Blue blueberry is they
said that they just don't have a ton of development time to
spare. So they're prioritizing stuff right now. I think they're
just gonna, they're gonna hit. They're just going to hit them
as soon as they can as they get right list.
Okay, and then that's understood and
comprehended. Yeah, the, for anybody who wants to add a page
for the supported stuff, there's two, and I'm going to make this
a call out as well, because I want people to submit themselves
to the GitHub, if you look in the docs folder, the GitHub,
there's an element support file there. And anybody can do a pull
request, just add, add your either your app to it, or an app
that you know that functions to it. Ryan, there's, it's just a
list, it's a list of each of the tags, and which apps support it.
So please add yourself or somebody or some other app there
that, you know, you can add hosts their app, anybody that
supports a tag at any layer of this chain, put them in there.
And also the other part is the contributors. There's a
contributors dot txt file on the GitHub as well, if you if you've
even had one comment, on podcasts index, or social, or on
the GitHub, it at all, add yourself to contributors,
because everybody who has had comments and has spoken up about
anything, you are a contributor, stick yourself in the file, so
that you get recognized as because that's, that's
important. So anybody who wants to make like a page for the site
or something like that, to keep up with this stuff, okay. All
listed there. Yeah, it's all listed there. So you won't have
to go digging for stuff. It's just right there. But the one,
one thing about the namespace is that there's, I think we
mentioned we've touched on this before. There's the idea that
eventually, this is meant to be a self contained namespace. So
and what I mean by that is, the goal here is to have a podcast,
quote, unquote, namespace with everything neat that's needed
for podcast hosting. And that means that there is going to
come a point where we're going to start duplicating tags that
may be in other namespaces. Right. The what, what Stacy for
NPR was mentioning the other day, it was a perfect example of
this stomata season, season to actually what what they want is
the ability to have non numeric seasons so that you just don't
say, season one, season two, season three. Right, right. So
that you can have a season that's called 2020 election,
right? Yeah.
So a lot of these things that are going to be sort of like
expansions to existing tags within let's say, the iTunes
namespace or something like that is going to be a natural is
going to be a duplication. So they're not, they're not what we
started off with. And Phase One is, is the idea of trying to
address needs that weren't met. That pent up demand things like
transcripts, things like captions, and chat and chapters
and stuff like that. Those are things that are like they add
new functionality. And those are things that have that it felt
right to put in from the beginning because people wanted
them for a long time. And they also serves another purpose,
which is making the open podcast ecosystem putting it on a level
playing field or even going beyond what the silo people can
do with their functionality.
I like that the silo people
It sounds like a horror movie from the
Yes, yeah, it kind of is.
And so once we get some of that stuff taken care of and I
wouldn't, we really need to try to get this person tagged on
does I think that's important. Everybody wants it. We just got
to nail that thing down. So is four, and then location is
another one that's coming up in phase two.
Now the value block will be in phase two, I
presume it's in there. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know how much,
Paul, there's going to be about it, because a lot of people
probably won't really even understand enough about it. Know
how to comment on it.
Not much the comment really,
it just does what it does. Yeah, very straightforward.
I have two things. One for chapters. Anybody implementing
chapters, I'd like to stress how I love the idea of image URLs.
Because I'm starting to use this as a slideshow feature, in my
shows, really like that I can you hear someone talking about
something, and up pops a picture with an optional link to tap
through to whatever that website is. So I see that now is the
inverse of why I why I really disliked it is people tapping
into chapters to skip ahead. Now, it's something that may not
even have a link, you know, it's just it's it's an image that
goes along with the content. It's a little different use
case. From the how most people display chapters. So especially
for the app developers, I think there's a lot of opportunity
opportunity there. And I think it's very fun. The other day,
did you say opportunity? I like that.
Did I say that?
You almost did. I like I like the opportunity opportunity.
It's kind of like douchebag Silicon Valley thing, though, if
I said it that way. Like, I'll try to debate it. I'll try it at
Ryan's Bitcoin meetup. Here's an opportunity, everybody got a
great opportunity for the Bitcoin community.
keynote take sets back.
Okay, so chapters and captions, transcripts, my process and is
here's what I'd like. And here's what I'm doing. And here's what
parts are working in aren't working. I published my RSS feed
my file is up. It takes depending on which show, but it
takes a little bit of time to finish the transcripts, but I
want to get my show out. That's just my process. So I publish
everything. And I put it in dummy values or no values for
chapters and transcript. And then once the transcript is
done, then I add that to the feed, and I republish, I changed
the pub time, or pub date on the episode, and then just pray that
it works, then, and I hit the web pub sub thing, whatever I
pick that and I saw that after the fact the captions were
picked up by pod friend, which I consider a pod friend picks it
up, then we're in good shape chapters is very interesting
problem, because I kind of in every tool that's available
except for before I publish it, the show has to be online in
order to create the chapters. So chicken in the egg. So I so if I
were to use the pod friend tool, or or just do it manually or use
it internally with buzzsprout. After publishing, it doesn't get
picked up everywhere. And I don't know exactly what to do to
trigger it or let people who have already access the file.
When published without the updates to the URLs, I How is
that possible that I can say, you know, Hey, take another
look. Because now the chapters are working, or the chapter file
is there. It's just it's frustrating, because I don't
know how to how to make it happen.
So were you saying that? I posted this morning that the
chapters URLs don't 404? Yeah, it was and that's good. You and
you published it before the chapters file was there in order
to avoid that problem? Is that right? Like you put you publish
a file, you if you publish the feed item, if you publish the
podcast, the
files were empty the files were there, but the files were empty.
Okay, that that's to just make sure that the aggregator
is aware that it has the URL. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's what I
would that was my simpleton thinking. That's good.
Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.
Right. So how exactly is that the handoff to pod friend for
chapters, we hand off the URL or the actual JSON,
do URL
okay. So the for some, somehow I just have to let all these this
is always the problem. How do I Let the app know that I've
changed something significant in the item in my feed, that you
want to grab that without triggering a download of the of
the enclosure. Because we all know how to do that.
There's no universal way to do it that I know of like, for, you
know, for instance,
well, this is a horrible chicken in the egg.
It is Yeah.
Well, but you, but even if it's a 404, will the app pick up
those those URLs? Even if it throws a 404? Will that still be
in the in the database? What what gets surely would?
Yeah, I'm sure they would, we would we would pick it up?
Because I don't I don't check that it's a valid URL before I
just stored in the database. Okay. I think that's, that may
be a good way to do it. Because then probably what the app would
do is it's going to download is going to download the JSON at
when it when it gets ready to show it. And if it just gave it
before it just won't, it won't show anything.
Well, so here comes a fun, fun issue. So in order to so if I
use hyper catcher, which I like because hyper catcher, okay,
because hyper capture, allows for the community to use the app
and add chapters. And they have an there's an API that spits out
a JSON endpoint. But you can't create that JSON endpoint into
the file is published. But now now that I'm looking at it, I'm
looking at the URL, I think I can anticipate what the next
episode URL will be. Since I have a pretty strict naming
convention.
Now, are you referencing that URL or you?
Well, I've been referencing that URL? Yeah.
That seems that seems scary. Because you may end up
destroying David's web service with all those with all that
traffic. Yeah,
let's rewind the show an hour. That's what I do, brother.
Okay,
some people get up in the morning and make hit records. I
get up and I break your fucking code. I bring your servers down.
Hey, he's providing this as a feature a service to me.
There's 150,000 downloads. In 20 seconds. Here you go. Good luck.
He's about he's about to witness that. So buckle down.
Have fun. I mean, like, I don't know, any other way to do it.
And I think I think that probably should be a way to do
it. Yeah, and I think that should be in the thing, like, in
the thing, you
know, the thing.
I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, that that should
be in the docs for the for the namespaces. Like, okay, if the
thing is there, then just, but it's given a 404, or whatever,
or there should be some instruction about like, hey, it
for apps, you know, expect that this may not, you know, show up
and draw, you just fall back to non chapter functionality. If
that's the case. I'll write that up in the docs, just to make
sure that it's clear that because I think there's some of
these things, where it's like an image. It's like a podcast, man,
you can reference an image. And it may not show it may be a 404.
But if you fix it later, it'll show
up
if you show up. Yeah. I mean, because the aggregator can't
check all that stuff. I mean, oh, my God, that would slow
everything. Right.
Right. Right. Right. Okay. you've answered most of my
question. Thank you. I think it's important to add that in
there, because not everyone, laboriously puts in chapters and
works on it for hours and post processing and then publishes a
snappy Go, go, go go. And I make lots of mistakes, which is why I
like having community based tools. You You make mistakes,
I'll catch him. When I'm when I've had a coffee.
Has anybody done any community chapters for you, they have,
I prove I tweeted out twice, and a couple people came in did some
chapters. But we didn't really have an app to show them in yet.
And that's when I started breaking David's code left and
right. So budino just slowed it down a little bit than the than
the Sphinx guy showed up. So now I'm kind of circling back around
and I want to I want to be a big publisher using these features.
And I intend to do so
in the year intending to turn the node node agenda feed into
the testbed feed for for or not test but I mean into the into
the sandbox feed for for these new tags just because Oh, yeah.
Starting Sunday, was Sunday show I'm gonna I'm gonna promote.
I'll talk to David because I'd like to tell everybody to use
hyper capture. I wanted to be aware. Yeah. And let's, you
know, let's see what happens so that they can make some
community features the community chapters. Then they should just
I mean, I have to approve them. But I don't mind checking any,
any set up a notification system, which is very cool.
So with the email, so,
yeah, so that, you know, if something is changed, then you
know, oh, wait, because I didn't have three shows on there. And
so I don't have to check into every single one. It just oh,
this show this episode updated. And you can go in you can see
him You can approve them and let them go. Yeah, yeah. So that's,
that's how things get adopted. Man, this show,
you know, podcast addict. released.
Yeah, you should, it should be fully compliant. So yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's not beta anymore. So issue, you know that that's a good
testbed right there to pull the feed down. Excellent.
That's all coming. Anything else you got Dave?
No, no, I'm good. I think. I think we just have to finish up
these finished up some of these important tags. And I think, I
think we'll be good. And then we'll switch gears for we'll
switch gears at some point within the next month or so,
from from adding new pent up functionality to trying to
improve things that may already exist, but just weren't that
aren't meeting everybody's needs by the seas, like the seasons
stuff and everything. So hopefully, I think by the end of
the year, we'll have a good solid base to work from and we
can start trying to whittle away at some of these other things
like like NPR is talking about and I know if they're having
this problem now I'm sure this other
people having the problem. Yeah,
and yeah, hundred percent.
Another benefit to all this work is it keeps your mind off of
elections and other crazy crap. I find it very cathartic. Very,
very enjoyable. Dave, is there anything else I can get for you
anything that within my powers that can make happen? cough
drops, cough drops on the way, my friend, I love a lozenge.
Just a lozenge from time to time. Hey, Dave, thank you so
much, man. It's great catching up. Great
board meeting. Yeah, you too, man.
All right, and have yourself great weekend everybody else. We
are building the future of podcasting together podcasting.
2.0 we'll see you next Friday. Adios, everybody.