podcasting to one over January 6 2023, episode 116 We're Krypto
terian Hello, everybody first board meeting of the new year
2023 Are we already in the three years this thing almost Welcome
to podcasting 2.0 It is your weekly board meeting where we
discuss all things around the new podcast standards, the
namespace, everything happening at podcast index dot social, and
we've got some great guests here with us in the board room. I'm
Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country on
Alabama. The man always prepared to pull your request. Say hello
to my friend on the other end. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave
Jones.
Did you know that I got a deep cut for you here?
A deep Wait, you have a deep cut for me? Yeah, like a lady like a
deep cut is in a deep cut on a record.
Yeah, but this is a fact. This is like a deep cut fact.
Okay. All right. I'm excited already.
Well, I was trying to figure out Oscar ping me this morning and
said that we're getting four threes on the API. And so
for those of you just tuning in, Oscar, Oscar Mary runs the
fountain app. And what did he get on
the API? Some four Oh, threes?
What is a 403? It is an error of some sort. Obviously.
Era. Yeah. So it's it's like, I think is a service unavailable.
It's a 403. I was getting mixed up with a four Oh, yeah.
Forbidden. My bad. So 403 forbidden, which is weird. I'm
like, okay, that's, that's authentication related. I don't
really get and when it gets through Cloudflare you're not
exactly sure. Sometimes either, because it can get wonky. But so
I'm trying to figure that out. And of course, because I'm
listening to my playlist, my Spotify playlist for whenever
I'm doing API stuff, because it's important. It gets me in
the mood.
Oh, wait a minute. I actually have a little peek inside your
Spotify post. This is something you posted just today.
Yeah, a little bit of numbers Jones for everybody. Yeah. In
honor of the Indian Tom Jones Samsung logo. can
help yourself is the title. We know why you posted that. But
okay, let's, let's keep on going.
Well, so unlike this, I'm trying to figure this out. And then
what hits what hits the playlist is sailing, but Christopher
cross.
Oh, yeah. Take me away.
Yes. See me? Yeah. And I'm like, Okay. I don't actually know who
Christopher cross is. I thought he was a one hit wonder. I'm
like, Oh, we
got a couple songs. I think
didn't Yeah, turn. Turns out he had a he had a couple of big
ones. That's about it. I mean, like, evidently the guy he's
from San Antonio. San Antonio.
I didn't know it was from San Antonio. How about yesterday,
Senator. Let me see he had say Arthur's theme that was the big
one from from the movie Arthur and then oh, ride like the wind.
Wait, that's did he do it? Yes. He did. Do what right. Yeah.
Okay, so yeah, it's like three hits.
Yeah, three hits and then going so but then but I believe you
gotta move
you hit. You're gone in comfort. For the rest of your life be
okay. Yeah.
But then I kept I kept reading on the on the book of knowledge
and I'm like, okay. It says that he is such a good guitar player
that he filled in for Ritchie Blackmore in a night in a deep
purple concert in 1970 when Blackmore was sick. Now that's a
deep cut
is a deep, I always liked him. I thought he also did some other
projects he was involved in. But I remember it was the album with
the I'm looking at it right now. This is the Yeah, the album of
the familiar Flamingo on it. Oh, yeah, that was the one we all
had that. 119 79
Yeah, this and I'm like, I mean, he looks like a normal guy. He
just looks like yeah, you know, average Joe. Like you would see
him at, you know, at the Walgreens.
Yeah. He looks kind of like a homely average guy. A little bit
sad. Just a dad. Well, three and a half million monthly
listeners. According to Spotify.
No. Well, um, yeah. Well, he's getting about 20 bucks. That's
good.
Yeah. If that if that. Well, thank you. Yes, yes.
Yeah, we're right. We're back. We're back in business. I just
have no idea. I think what happened was the I'm battling
this in this is probably this is probably something that we
should talk about. At some point. I'm, I'm battling this
batch of signups to the API and it's just like, it's accelerated
and I know a lot of them are just
garbage scammers and Trump people just find this Got a
scrape stuff from us.
I don't exactly know what they're doing. Because most of
the there's just tons and tons of signups. And nobody. And most
of these don't actually do any anything in the API. So I'm just
gonna have to like, and then there's also people that are
hitting us with sample code, channel, the CSS, all you know,
we have the example. Org, in GitHub that's got all the
example code for every language known to man know, on how to hit
the API, it will a lot of people are doing is just taking that
code and just hit and just like, dropping, running, running
going. Well, so we end up with tons of hits with with a user
agent string. That's just right out of the sample code.
Well, I think something else is going on here. This is clearly
open AI chat GPT, which is, is searching through all of the kid
hubs, sucking in the code running the code, probably even
signing up. And I think it's probably even asking for you to
take down some some podcast it doesn't like I'm telling you,
Ma'am, this thing is out of control. The AI is taken over.
Did you
read that? What do you think that's real? What that email? Is
that real up real person
folders that are the email that we got? Yeah. I'm, I haven't hit
Send yet. On the reply. I am 99% certain that it will bounce.
Okay.
I mean, there's no way there's no website associated with this.
No, no, there's no website. It's a GoDaddy protected domain. So
you can't find out who's registered it. Yeah. Sketchy,
sketchy. I have I have my email already. I'm just going to
double check it. Someone wanted to Fox News taken down from it's
interesting to send it to us because it was sent to the URL
refers to his pod friend.
Yeah. And, um, and I'm sure as, as he appropriately should, I'm
sure Martin got first email and he was like, nope.
Guaranteed he didn't get an email. I'm telling you. He
didn't. Okay. It'll be fun. It'll be fun to watch. I don't
mind doing that. But the AI stuff is out of control. I have
to say, it's out of control.
I got tired of hearing people read a Chad GPT stories,
telling me you tell. But here's the AI story from this morning.
that I thought was interesting that Apple has quietly released
AI narrated audio books. So and which is interesting to me,
because you know, I make I make a living speaking so if this is
what my competitor is going to be. And I Chad was Chad F was
kind enough to send me a little sample, which I will share in
the same way I did with my wife this morning. I didn't say
anything. I just played it and waited for her to respond. I
would didn't say listen to this. I just played I just played it.
And here we go. And listen, listen and listen to this, I
should say here
we are trying to relay information that is not always
identifiable by current analytical processes is
sometimes haphazard. But through real life stories and examples
that illustrate how others can achieve the same results
at this point. She said, Why are you listening to a robot? She
heard it right away? Oh, yeah, without me setting her up, which
I thought was interesting.
It's, it's in the this is on the upswing of the uncanny valley.
It's just, it's just, which is almost the worst place to be
like, you want to be you want to be on the ball, you want to be
like on the on the beginning of the upside of the uncanny
valley, not at the not halfway, because then it's like, then is
really irritating and triggering you. Because you can hear it
every now and then. And you're not you're constantly
questioning whether or not what you're hearing is actually is
actually right or wrong. It's like it's like you're
gaslighting yourself.
To me. I immediately just sound soulless. That's what I do every
single time I see an AI generated anything, including
chat GPT if soulless chat GPT is word salad soulless tank, let me
write 50 words to say I can't help you is a bit much that
much. But I did run some code. I write a best I say yeah, I said
write a bash script that lets me check the bitcoin price. And it
wrote a script. And I copy pasted it. Made executable and
it worked. Quite impressive.
It worked well for a while. I mean, what did it actually do
though?
Oh, no. It's like if I type in BTC price and run it then it
comes back and it says you know do it right now. So
what is it like what does the code do? What what what service?
Is it query? Oh,
allow me to tell you. Oh, second. Here we go BTC okay,
what it does it? Okay Does it curl on the coin desk API?
Releases Go routines retrieves the JSON then it uses JQ.
Yeah,
install what is JQ is a JSON Query, I guess JSON, JSON,
JSON decoder for the composer parser. Okay. And then
it, you know, it literally parses for dot BPI dot USD rate.
And then it says echo the current price of Bitcoin is it
even even told me how to install JQ? If it wasn't installed on my
system? That was kind of cool.
So the logical next question is, whose code did it steal?
Oh, of course, it stole someone's code. Of course, what
I discovered yesterday during no agenda, you know, I've been
using Niva and e va as a search engine for oh, goodness, ever
since they came out maybe two years? Using that? Oh, yeah. And
I pay for it. And that's fine. And so I'm searching something.
And all of a sudden, I see on the search results, Neva AI, and
it's literally just like, chat GPT is, is rolling out. You
know, it's typing in real time. But it's also showing you the
sources where it got this information from. And these are
ex Google guys. So what happened is you got this big
organization, Google, who, of course, freaking out over this
stuff, because it's much better as a user friendly way to get an
answer. I'm not saying the answer is correct. But it you
know, to get an answer, and a company like that, it's very
difficult to move in any especially search. I mean,
that's you don't fuck with search a Google man. You don't
touch anything without the board knowing about it, I guess. And
these next Google guys, they went, Oh, yeah, hold my beer.
We'll implement that. No one knows about it. They'll get no
ink. But I was impressed. They did it. I thought that was
pretty interesting.
Well, I think I think he made a good point. At some point in the
past. I can't remember. I can't remember when you said this. I
think it was basically the it's the it's the the sort of
definitiveness of what Chad GPT says. That is that is sort of
like the secret sauce that scares everybody in the search,
right? They don't give you a list of links, list of search
results. Exactly what you say. What's the best barbecue
restaurant in Austin, Texas, and it says it's this one, right?
Like, Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. But if you don't like that, when you
could try these other ones, it's just the way that it's worded.
You're like, Oh, let that's actually kinda and that's Yeah,
exactly. You know it because if from a search engine standpoint,
like that, is that is intoxicating to, to, to most
people is that they just get an answer. They don't have to
actually parse anything.
Exactly. No, people like that. This is exactly what lazy people
love. This is going to be great for people. It's fantastic. It
will ruin society. It will, it will remove all soul from all
art, but man will be happy doing it. For sure. Big day. Today is
the first board meeting of the new year. We have not one but we
have two esteemed and honorable board members who have been,
even though I've had their microphones open. They're very,
very quiet. That's there. We have trained them so well.
Please welcome right away to the board meeting at the honorable
Alex gates official podcasting 2.0 consultant and the honorable
Mitch Downey, founder and developer. Converse. Hello,
gentlemen.
Hey, John. Hey, everybody.
Yeah, everybody. There you go. See, Mitch has got a DJ voice on
paper, buddy. Happy New Year, gents.
Happy New Year. It's been a long journey for us.
Just for today's Board Meeting been a long journey, or just in
general, just a whole long journey, just as is
a bit of both Ah,
yeah. 2022 was a whirlwind of development and lots of exciting
things.
No kidding.
Now that go ahead, Alex, I was gonna ask you. So the reason I
kind of put y'all together on this show together is because
we've been talking so much about, you know, cross out
comments and that kind of thing. So we put this together the last
couple weeks, because I kind of wanted to see, we've talked a
lot about cross app comments, but then we haven't really, you
know, pod VS is one of the only apps that has it in the app. And
then, Alex, you've got a bunch of knowledge and development,
sort of IP involved in thinking this thing through and getting
it implemented. So I thought it just might be good to have sort
of like the cross that come in executive committee.
Oh, oh, yeah. Is it the same as the comp the compensation
committee?
There's actually no compensation committee at all. So even isn't
it? Yeah,
before we start, want to welcome everybody in the chat room. want
to welcome everybody listening live, we are lit. And you're
probably listening to it on curio caster or pod verse. And
you can find more about that by checking out each of those apps.
And just wanna make sure everyone knows that we love them
in the in the chat room. And of course, there they are already
pre boosting us. So good to have everybody here.
But just in general, like Alex, I guess I want to start with
you. Because what do you think there's been? We've been just
been talking around cross app comments for weeks now. Like,
what were what is your sense of where of where it's at? And then
what what you envision as as what it will look like? Let's
just, I don't want to guide you too much in question. We'll
leave it open. But I mean, what do you think? What do you think
is a reasonable sort of road roadmap? And then where do you
think we could be like, within a couple of years?
Well, short term, I think we're actually in a really good
position. Kind of backup a little bit about the big
picture. I think. Maybe in the beginning, we got a little bit
too caught up on the perfect solution, which is, we didn't
want to depend on on the Macedon API for either hosting or
replying. But I think, especially within the last few
months, we've noticed that was the influx of Macedon that I
think it's a prime time to allow a dependency on the message API
for inap replying. So the way James Crillon explained last
week with the candidate or flow where you'd have popovers acting
as a Macedon client. I think that we can do that today.
There's plenty of examples where I've gone back and forth with
Mitch on some of the available JavaScript libraries to do it. I
think that is easily doable. Right now, obviously, talking
about UX that it's not really my dog, my dog house, but uh,
that's I'll leave Mr. Comment on that. But I think working on, on
understanding how we've had these traditional podcast client
UX for so long, and kind of breaking out of that will be
important.
You're doing me you're doing it already. With peer to write. I
mean, this is just so people understand. I mean, when when
you're you, people, people are interacting with peer tubes
activity pub, went through through Mastodon, I mean, so
this, this is this is doable. It's not theoretical. And this
is actually code that exists.
Yes, that's correct. And I'm actually actively working on
upstreaming, that code into the main Putri project. So
hopefully, within six months, that will be available to
everyone who can run peer to peer to.
And that's the you also posted something to me, I think it was
maybe today or yesterday, and I was looking through it about
giving out chat, having a live chat and then giving out the
live chat details within activity pub messages. And
that's somebody something somebody's proposed, but I mean,
I think I think what you said was it made a lot of made a lot
of sense, which we you know, we can it makes sense to adopt that
not Reapered not just basically piggyback off that work, but
within peer tube.
Yes, although I want to be very clear, I think we should
distinctly avoid confusing live chat and comments. It's a
totally different experience for totally different purposes.
Yeah. And because you corrected me on that couple of weeks ago,
because you were saying that, you know, there's, you have a
live chat if and when you're in I think the perfect example,
sort of mentally that people can, can can envision is
YouTube, and then you have a live chat on the same screen.
You have a live chat and you have comments, you have both and
and I have
three including the Super Chat, you have three really which
would be our Instagrams.
Right? Yes, you really have has it conceptually, two,
technically three things happening at the same time. And
I tend to forget that because when you think of live chat,
you've I forget that the comments are also there.
Yeah, so live chat is definitely for me to just take no agenda as
an example. It's for on the fly. trolling for lack of a better
term.
No, that's exactly what it is when we call it specifically
call it the troll room, not the chat. Room on no agenda.
And for some experiences, I mean, you can go to Twitch for
some of the smaller channels that are, you know, there's
legitimate real time discussion happening. But it's not
mentioned process by any means. It's, it's, you know, it's near
real time as possible. And comments are for more long, long
term formal discussion, I think, well as formal as you can
imagine.
What what I've noticed, and this came up on the last episode, I
think so first of all, the idea that it's all on the same page
is important. And for those who are a little lost right now,
we're talking about the concept of being able to comment on the
podcast episode. And that showing up on that episode in
every app that integrates the cross app comments, or the
social interact tag as it's officially known. When you play
a YouTube video, the comments are static down below, and you
can sort them as well, from newest or most popular, that's
not to be underestimated. I have no idea what people typically
deal with the default is that you can set that. But you also
have the option of playing back the live chat, which honestly, I
kind of like if I'm if I'm watching some, even though I
can't interact with it, and it says this is a this is a pre
recorded, when that's kind of scrolling by on the side. I've
always found that to be interesting.
It depends on the on the stream.
Well, it's a UX decision that they've made that clearly is
working otherwise, I presume they did not do that.
Well, yeah. It's honestly a feeling when you're watching a
lot. That's part of lifetime experience. Right? Just seeing
that the chaos, especially some of the bigger streams going on
in the live chat as as they discuss things and people react
to them, even if it's meaningless.
Yeah, right. Yeah.
I'm saying as it as a playback mechanism, it's, it's, it has
value when you can play if you're coming in. And as it was
live, and it was two different things, I realize it, but to
say, chat shouldn't be a part of this. I don't know if that's
correct, because we're looking at the template at the model
that people like, and having a having that role, that scrolling
thing while you're listening to it, even if it's a week later,
is not without value for obviously for someone.
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, we're saying, Yeah, I think we're
Yeah, we're saying that we're just saying that, like, we're
talking about, about the giving out of the live chat information
in activity pub. So that activity pub, been making the
distinction between activity Pub is the comments activity. Pub is
not the live chat. Agreed, complete. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cuz,
I mean, you gotta have some way to. I mean, I think it's fair to
say that activity pub can be, and can be a carrier of a lot of
stuff. Probably Probably a good carrier of a lot of a lot of
information, rather than, rather than these, these sort of,
rather than the thing itself, it can be a transporter of various
things. Is that am I getting that? Right?
Yeah, let me explain, I guess the history of why that came up.
Okay. Basically, it with work I don't appear to have I'm
allowing a way for pure to plugins to extend the RSS feeds.
So if you host peer tube, and you want to add something to
your RSS feed without having to modify the software, you'll be
able to do that with the plugin. The the live chat thing you're
mentioning is me working with with a live chat plugin
developer for peer tube to work on a specification in parallel
with an activity buff specification. So we can get
live chat, you know, realistically into an RSS feed.
And the parallel there is activity published just as
extensible with as RSS with the namespace work and we're doing
it just, it's just JSON and linked to structures. And
that's, um, that's one of the big reasons activity Pub is so
useful for us, is because we actually have that protocol.
Whereas if we were to try to use an alternative, like Nostrovia,
would have to invent all that.
Yeah. All right. So where are we in the conversation? I'm a
little lost. I mean, I'm here to find out how I can get the
comments that I've been posting in the way I've been told to do
it to surface in apps and for people to be able to comment in
the app.
short answers, make your map make your package client a
message on client and allow the user to sign in.
Well, I would I don't have a podcast client. I'm dependent
upon podcast apps that are being created. So I'm just trying to
follow the spec and see if we can get something to surface
Well, there'll be a lot of talk from a front end perspective.
These. So, cross app comments and live chat are two totally
distinct features. You see this on youtube today, there's
comments that are left asynchronously just reply to
people's posts. And then there's also a separate live chat
experience. So with regard to Macedon implementation, I'd like
to say that the reason that we haven't seen faster adoption
from the app side so you can actually get in and start
replying within the app is just a knowledge, issue.
implementation details about activity pub, all of this is
possible today, with the social interact tag. And it has been
possible for over a year, it's just a matter of, for us to
learn the implementation details, which Alex has been
helping us with, and there seems to be at least one good library
we can use for this purpose. Ah, so. So right now today, in pod
verse, we have a read only cross app comments experience. So if
the podcaster provides a link to their Macedon post, it doesn't
doesn't have to be Macedon, it could be other activity pub
services, then, what our app will do is we'll use John
Spurlock's Threadless, or Fred cap library, and that will pull
in all of the replies that are associated with that activity
pub posts. And so we have this read only you can't reply
directly in the app. But that's only because we haven't done the
work to learn how to do the OAuth process to let you log
into your Macedon account, basically, within pod verse and
then begin replying. So there's no technical limitation to why
we haven't done yet. It's simply we haven't had the time to do
it. But with the surge in popularity of Macedon, which was
quite unexpected to me in 2022, it's becoming a high priority
quickly.
Yeah, so you can just take instead of about think that's
probably what what Alex was saying earlier as we get to
hooked on vanilla activity pub as being sort of, okay, every
every implement every client implementation is going to have
to roll and roll and activity pub solution. Whereas probably
the best way forward net right now with the popularity of
Mastodon in the in the flood of Mastodon people is just to say,
okay, oh, auth out to your Mastodon account, and just do
and just go that way. Now
a question Will that will that them work? If you so you, you
authenticate yourself once? And and then you won't have to go in
and do all the dance of oh, I have to copy this find it go to
go to my instance. And then only then can I reply to it? Um, you
know what I'm talking about this, this kind of loop around
that has to be done at this moment.
Yeah, that doesn't work. And the reason I know it'll work is
because you already use a client use pin for even for his doing
this already.
Ah, yeah. Okay. That's how they do that guy.
Yeah. So what will have to happen is the partners, for
example, will have to do that search step for you. For some
stupid mess on reasons. But yeah, it'll be it'll be a
seamless experience.
Well, then we're all done. It works.
short episode.
Yeah, I'm actually gonna put pin of war in the, into the, into
the show notes so people can see how that works. So is it? So
okay, so this is really well, there's a couple of other things
that I think are non technical that have been an issue. One is,
how does this show up in the UI? Is it is it something that will
move to the front? Now that seems like people are using it?
Is it something that app developers want to see it on all
the shows and don't want to have an empty spot? And because
that's, that's clearly UI UX decisions that have to be made.
So if there's no comment, or no rude post, or just just a random
podcast, do you still we still want to have comments there? I
mean, there's a lot of things that I remember from almost two
years ago, I think, when we started talking about this, that
that were raised as issues and I'm just not sure how, you know
how we can motivate people to to start thinking about it and
start implementing or not implementing or coming to some
kind of consensus because right now we basically I think doesn't
curio caster also do comments. Read Only comments? I don't
think so. No. So it's only pod.
Think it's only pod verson pod friend?
Well, I've been kicking around ideas with Alex and Korean, our
co founder. And so right now today the experience is if you
go, if you open the player in pod verse and you swipe to the
left or right, it'll show additional features. One of
those features is comments. However, there's no indicator
when the player appears, if a show has comments or not. So
that is a UX problem that we need to solve. But it is
solvable. And now that you know, comments are gaining a bit more
traction. So we're thinking of how we can add it. So at a
glance, you'll know if comments are available. I have two ideas
we've been talking about one that people seem to like the
most. So we could have one comment show. Like if comments
are available, just one truncated comment appears on the
screen. And then you tap it, and then the full list of comments
could appear. So that would be in prime real estate on the
right when you load the player. The other alternative I was
thinking about this would take up less vertical real estate,
which is the advantage but I'm not sure if this is a way go up.
So Spotify has a feature where if a if a song has lyrics,
there's a little card that peeks up from the bottom of the
screen. And if you scroll down, it will reveal the lyrics. This
design pattern could work for other things. Maybe it could
work for comments. So if a podcast doesn't have comments,
there just would not be an indicator on the screen.
Realize a common idea like that is similar to
streaming, streaming payments and booster grams if if the
podcast doesn't have it, the UI doesn't show the buttons.
But I actually think we should say comments are disabled for
this podcast. I think that will actually help drive adoption and
reduce confusion.
That's a cool idea too. Because then then just din the negative
of saying there are no comments for this podcast indicates that
some podcasts actually do have comments.
Yeah, I would suggest saying instead of have been disabled
say not enabled. Not a little little friendlier. No, not
enabled, I think is the right word. Because it's the podcast
who should be enabling Correct.
I was going out to YouTube verbiage. But
please don't make me speak Silicon Valley language. Let's
just do an upside down version.
That's, that's sort of like an end what's what's the opposite
of a dark pattern? It's it's a light pattern. That's this an
anti dark pattern is your tip. It's like you're saying this,
this thing doesn't have this thing. But wink wink, this thing
is available to all yes,
yeah. Not enabled. And that's up to any any podcast app how they
want to do it. I mean, yeah, I'm so happy that we've gotten to
this point. Because if I can summarize, because there's a lot
of technical stuff. Summarizing, we got slowed down a bit,
because we were looking purely at activity pub, it's a big
learning curve. There's a lot to it. And you know, every single
developer here obviously has millions of dollars and a whole
staff to do whatever they want all day long. They just chose
not to do it. So but now is the consensus, at least amongst the
board here today, as as we count them, that going the Macedon API
route may be the way to go as long as it's open for anyone to
you know, obviously, you can use any activity pub client. Is that
what we're what we're looking at now.
That's my understanding, but I'll defer to Alex.
Yeah, I think that's the way I like to see it. From a
developer's perspective, is the mess on API for better or for
worse is sort of becoming like the s3 of a social network, at
least for activity, but then s3 s3 being the storage.
Yeah, that's a good analogy. And because it's like, we can all
wish that things were more generic and more sort of higher,
higher level but then it's sort of like it's wishing versus sort
of accepting reality as it is and that the the one extra the
one benefit that I can think of on top of that is the fact that
if you if you are just Oh thing out to to a mastodon instance,
to an account on a mast on it says it didn't didn't matter.
THE MODERATOR Shouldn't have those comments becomes the
instances problem, not the ads problem. So so it really solves
that big time. And it's easy to point podcasters to a $5 a month
solution, you know, to host their own Mastodon client to set
it up. I mean, that becomes almost a non issue. That's
really cool.
Yeah, I mean, if if Mitch has to build his own activity pub
stack, then I mean, it's, then he's just, there's no way to get
around that having to be responsible for the moderation.
But yeah, and early on, that was part of the thing. That was one
of the things that kept us from really moving forward with it,
which is people were suggesting that we would create our own
Macedon instance, and help people sign up for it. And that
would be great. But we have to operate on a very lean budget as
an open source project. And we're we're not interested in
the amount of work that we'd be involved in, in moderating
people's comments, because, like it or not, people can post very
awful things, or illegal things. And that's, that's not something
we want to be responsible for maintaining.
So the experience would be, I opened up a podcast, I'm just
just going through this from a listener perspective. And
there's an indication Oh, that you can comment on this or there
may be comments, maybe you can comment. And there's already 10
comments, a counter. And then if I want to interact with that, I
will, I will log in with my own app Mastodon account, if I don't
know what that is, then a pointer, go over here. Get a
mastodon account anywhere you want to get a mastodon account,
because they're pretty easy to get now with all the press about
it. Is that is that? Is that the flow?
Yeah, that's basically it. And it is getting easier for people
with adoption. So you would get a read only experience by
default, you can just scan and you'll see whatever the comments
are. And somewhere in the UI, there'll be a login button. Or
maybe you press the Reply button. And first it prompts you
to log in, then it redirects you to the to our own inap. Macedon
login flow.
Beautiful.
Alex, what are you using for your A gates at activity pub dot
a gates.io? What? What is the backing of that? Is that
something you wrote? Or is that a Corona or what?
I wish I had time for that. It was Paul Romer. And then I moved
to a fork of it called rebased. Which is, it's very based in
soap boxes is, honestly, the UI is better than mastodon. So
definitely check it out.
Is it a multi user type thing? Or is that just sort of like a
single user instance type, do
my mind is single instance. But by default, it's multi user. And
I'm posting on a $5 month window.
Because the the started, we talked last week about you know,
get sort of bridging some of these things over to just get
more, did just get more content to start to start the just start
the activity post comment stream and kind of started outlining
that writing it out on paper this week and looking at the
activity protocol. And I mean, really is coming, looking at
Mastodon it looks at the, the weaknesses and master the
Achilles heel. And if somebody I'm sure there's more than one,
but to me, the big Achilles heel of Mastodon is this dependence
on sidekick for all the notifications that happen that
that thing seems to be the really the thing that kills that
kills it and makes it hard because you'll end up with, you
know, 10s of 1000s of queued sidekick messages for all of
this activity that's going in, you know, when things start to
federate. And I feel like if you could take that thing out and
make it where it was put it into a more efficient language or a
more efficient structure. Things would be you could do it on a
much smaller scale without all the huge overhead of Mastodon
Yeah, not to get too nerdy, but Macedon. The main difference
between messily on imploring for support Rama is Macedon doesn't
like us, it's its own internal data structure, which
complicates things significantly. Whereas the
simplest activitypub implementations just store the
the JSON in the database and use it that way.
Yeah, cuz I was thinking you could even do that with me. You
could even do it with just object storage. I mean, to you
could go for I guess, one transit, you could go far with
just object storage until you needed to do the note the
federated notification, like you can really put something
together. That's very, very lightweight. Which is what I'm
what I'm hoping to do. But the anyone just went went off the
rails.
I like it. You're fixing mastodon? That's a good idea.
Right? That's not?
Well, I mean, I'll just say that we federate heavily on podcasts
index dot social. All I do is I pay Masto dot host a fee every
month, I pay them a little extra for the amount of users and for
full site search. But you know, I've never seen has that thing
ever gone down really, I don't think I've ever seen an outage.
And it's Federation, everything seems to work pretty well. So I
mean, if you're talking millions and millions and millions of
people like Mastodon dot social, yeah, that's a whole different
whole different ball of wax. But it seems like that wouldn't be
too much of an issue for for what we're doing here, would
it? But no, I think if you get the, the way I understand it is
if you get somebody on your own your instance, who has, you
know, potentially a million followers
waiting on your instance, who certainly I'm going to post on
my own instance, isn't that the idea that the podcasters
responsible for either, you know, getting their account
somewhere or, or setting up their own server?
Yes. Okay. What and yeah, and that's what it's what I'm
talking about, sort of like inter internal to, to Mastodon
itself. So, you can just imagine if you had an, let's say, if you
had a podcast that had that was extremely popular, you know, and
had 10s of 1000s of followers, then it would be the same sort
of potential problem, as if you had somebody like, I don't know,
Stephen Fry, who has 100,000 followers on Mastodon, Mastodon
on the fediverse. Will. Now every time he posts, you're
gonna have notifications going out in in the 1000s. As feta as
that federates. So that's, that's where you hit a snag with
Mastodon is that process takes a huge amount of load that's
directly that's directly the ability for the instance to
handle that is, is basically proportional to how much compute
it has. Because I don't think that's a efficiently parallel
operation.
That said, it's a problem that would affect what like point
00 1% of podcasts who would be interested in this sort of
feature. And assuming that you have a big enough show, you can
solve scaling problems with more money and resources, I would
think
it's a good problem to have, honestly. And there are there
are actually ways to optimize it. The people that critique it
generally don't know about the optimizations.
Did that right, Alex?
So um, that's only really the case. If, if each one of your 1
million followers each has their own instance. Because if you
have, you know, 500,000 followers on one instance, you
know, that the activity pop servers can generally optimize
that because they know that they're all at the same place.
Gotcha. Because you always you have sort of a single inbox or
whatever.
Yeah, I mean, it's very, very, very similar to email in that
regard. Okay. But you're talking about like the Reply All
scenario, honestly. Which,
yeah, premature optimization. Sorry.
Okay, and I was gonna, I was going to interject something
else, just to just to make it more complicated. May I? Go
ahead. So the next question is, we have an app out there that is
doing lightning comments. I don't know how these are
integrated. I find them interesting. I don't know if
it's the same thing. All and there's, you know, there's
questions and maybe we can't solve this here. But if I look
at my own booster grams, they are pretty much comments
account, and certainly in this show, they're calm. It's always
a comment, actually, it's pretty much always common, or nine out
of 10. Our comment, is that something that we integrate into
this, is that something that that should and is separate, if
it is separate, how the heck do we make it work on all apps
instead of just one? Is it something that we can consider
at all? I throw that out there?
Yeah, I mean, it's def, to me, it's definitely separate. And
that's, that's why I'm starting starting to write the thing that
I'm running is to pull, pull that over so that it can be so
that it can exist as an activity pub comment without having to
mix the two together so that they can keep their distinct to
their distinctiveness without, but but also use the fact that
people meet some people and people who will do do lightning
comments. I mean, it's part of founds a popular app. And so
people who do that are they do it a lot. So that's a lot of
content. So if we could use that kind of, if we could use those
comments, to pollinate, you know, the activity pub route
post, I mean, that's, that's what I'm trying to do, I want to
mix the two, I just don't want to mix the two together, like on
it on the technical side,
if I could try to explain my understanding of this problem.
So lightening comments exist within the metadata that is
transmitted in the lightning, the Bitcoin Lightning Network.
And it works. For most use cases, if you want to send a
short message to a podcaster, it can generally fit within the
metadata that's sent. However, Lightning Network also has
something beyond my understanding that involves
onion routing, which leads to an unpredictable amount of
characters that you're allowed to send with a message. And for
a messaging platform, that's a very, that's a very big
limitation. So in pod verse, For example, we say a limit of 400
characters in your booster gram. But that's just a guess I can't
predict how many characters you actually have before it'll get
cut cut off, because apparently, as the transaction is sent
between different nodes, if I'm saying that right, each address
will get concatenated in the message, so we can't predict how
much room we have to send. So that is one major limitation of
a purely Lightning Network based chat, or commenting system.
Whereas something like activity Pub is designed for this
purpose. And we can reliably use it.
Right? So this is where if I understand Alex, you had ideas
about separating that out and having the message being maybe
still carried in the TLB or not, but I know you've got something
in mind.
Yeah, basically, there's ways built into both activity pub and
lightning to one activity pub extend the specification, which
is non trivial, just want to make that clear, upfront. But
long term, we can add things to these, you know, activity by
messengers. If we're you know, if the work of Macedon or
whatever to do, so we can, we can attempt that. What we, what
we do is, we would essentially attach what I'm calling a
payment proof proof of payment, which would work with any
system, not just lightning. But Lightning has a way to sign
messages. I mean, you can go into your lightning node and do
it right now. And what we can do is define a specification to a
predefined message format, that says, hey, I paid this amount to
this person does address and here's my mind, you can write
and you can attach that to your activity blog post, they could
all cryptographically sign so you can prove who it is. And we
have to work on ways of verifying that's accurate. But
that's I think it's the best way forward, even if it wasn't
actually I think the proof of payment or concept is important
to just get get speech out of
payments. So maybe baby steps versus what I'm hearing. Yeah,
we
can I mean, at first, we'll probably just say, hey, this
person boosted this amount and you know, it can be faked. But
you know, that's a long way away.
Yeah, I'm Hope I mean, hopefully this hopefully this bridge work
will become something will become that you know, so that we
can Hey as Okay, these things, these things are coming over
these comments that originated as lightning comments are coming
over here. Okay, now they're coming over as activity pub. Now
logical next step. Let's have them as let's split the
activity, pub comment and the payment and then add proof, add
the proof of payment. And then, you know, and then actually make
the split over time. I mean, that to me that makes makes
logical sense as a as a sort of a roadmap.
So we got a 10,000 stat boost from Sam Sethi, who doesn't know
him, and Sam says pod fans, which is his super secret
project, which is now just boosting about openly is working
to make itself a mastodon client. We already support the
activity stream standard ie X verb object, we can see, the ad
says, We can post on behalf of the user, when they comment on
pod fans, the difference between a comment and a booster gram is
only the payment part. So that he's already thinking along the
same the same line. So it will be great if we can get pod verse
and, and maybe pod fans and maybe one other to support the
cross app comments to surface those? I tell you, I will
promote the crap out of it.
Sure, well, we're interested in it. And Alex and I have talked
about it quite a bit with is a JSON payment token spec. And I
think it can happen in parallel with lightning comments as they
exist today. Lightning comments, just they have their
limitations, because it's not intended, intended to be a
messaging system. But there's no reason we couldn't send the
message to two places simultaneously, we can include
the message in the booster gram lightning data. And we could
also post the message to activity pub at the same time.
And I think the feature advantages of activity pub over
enough time would allow it to replace strict dependency on,
you know, the Lightning Network, which isn't intended for this
purpose. Alright, for this purpose,
I like
it. The simplest solution for for fountain would be to just
post a message on server and post the lightning comments as
messages for those users.
That is, yeah, that is a good idea. As I wonder, I wonder if
Oscars thought about doing that, because that's, that's a good
solution. The Mitch, I guess you had brought something up a while
back, and I hadn't written down here to talk to ask you about it
was the you said you were having trouble with the shim aspect of
of the podcaster wallet stuff. And I think it was specifically
related to Episode level splits. Can you run through that real
quick, because I want to make sure that I'm not leaving you
hanging on something?
Sure. So as a podcast app, we get all of our data from RSS.
It's the adopted standard provides all of the show
information that every podcast app needs to give the full
experience all the features that that podcast has. Now with the
value tag, you guys have created the monster that the shim is the
gentler word
that you get, you can replace a letter in there if you wants to.
Which is a temporary stand in, which allows people to get the
same experience as if they added their podcast value tagged to
their RSS feed, but it's actually hosted is it podcast
index is that
it's in the AP is in this comes out of the AICPA API, right.
Yeah, that's right.
Right. So what we have to do, we have to add an extra step in our
database in our API and parsing system, so that we request from
podcasts index, the value tag information for every podcast,
that's fine for now, like, and it I think there's like 10,000,
podcasts or something, which is pretty cool. There's that many
that support it. Now, if we want to apply that to episodes, we
have to also scrape that data from podcast index for every
episode. So now that you know if there's like 100 episodes per
podcast, now we're at a million points of information, we have
to scrape from an API. If that was in the RSS feed itself, we
wouldn't have to even go to podcast index for this purpose.
So I think it makes a lot of sense that the shim has been
used to get lift off with this feature. But it is something we
would want to move away from rather than consolidating this
dependency on the API for this information. And it seems like
RSS hosts are increasingly adopting.
So the, the whole concept of a shim is is exactly what the word
means. It's just a temporary fix to because we were very
skeptical about doing this at all, but we wanted to launch and
get the get the value for value system running, which is very
successful. It's 10,780 podcasts on reading here. So question
number one is so I know you maintain your own database you
read from your own database. What is exactly the reason
behind because you're one of the few I think, who does that?
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like You know, you're, like
you're unique in in having your own database
that does well, for a lot of the 2.0 apps. I think that's true.
Well, I mean, we existed before 2.0 was even a thing. So we
needed to have our own infrastructure for a podcast
database. And we decided to keep it because just in case, there
are other features that we want to support that potentially, the
index doesn't support, and also just for resilience, I guess,
and to be able to support ourselves, you know, in a self
hosted way, if for whatever reason, the index wouldn't be
available. So currently, we have our own standalone parsing RSS
parsing system and database. But we also sync with the podcast
index regularly to get feed update notifications, or if a
new feed was added or deleted. So we sync continuously,
but But you don't you don't you can't sync the the value block
information.
We could, it's definitely possible. It's just there's, for
the episode, specifically, we do support podcast level. So to be
clear, if it's in the if it uses podcasts or wallet, we provide
the value tag information for the podcast level, we don't
provide the episode. So show specific splits, we can do that
it will be more work for us to do that.
So hold on a second. So if if I put you guys in the value block,
which I'm which of course we do with all of our guests, you will
actually not get that if someone uses pod verse.
If you have it in the RSS feed, which I think you do, of course,
yes, then we do support it. We we have just prioritized native
RSS support over the episode level API integration, it's
entirely possible, it just either will require a much
larger syncing operation, maybe on a daily basis, with the index
for on the fly in an app, we make a request to podcasts index
and say, you know, this person just tried to play this episode,
before playing it grab the value information, which which is
fine, but it's you know, it's it's more interaction that has
to happen, potentially more waiting time for a network
request. So it's not our preferred approach
would it would have helped Mitch, if I published, if I just
dumped all of that episode level data out into just a big, just a
big file. And you know, just did it every, I don't know, five
minutes or so. That was something, grab something once
and not have to be, you know, polling
yet that something like that could definitely help. Okay,
it's a solvable problem on our end with the existing resources.
I just like to nudge people towards being aware that these
limitations exist. And this is part of the reason why you would
want to prefer to have it in RSS.
Ultimately, ultimately, we all want it to be an RSS, but that's
just going to take another five years, I can tell you right now,
it's just gonna take a while before everybody before
everybody has that. That's just the nature of the beast. I think
it's been so hard just to even get people to transfer. Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
It's been great now, Mitch, by the way, congratulations. With
all of the releases, you've been doing all the bug fixes. OPO,
OPML import works. Again, it's been fantastic. I'm on graphene
OS which is an oddball thing. I'm still don't worry about it,
I'm still having issues. From time to time it forgets that
it's connected to the Albea wallet. I'm not sure what the
problem is. But I wouldn't worry about it too much a live issue
that is cropping up on lit. And it's weird, because you're the
guy that that has all of these features that are so exciting.
You've got notifications for when a show goes live on, you
know, unplugging the heck out of pod verse. So of course I have a
vested interest on asking about a couple things that are our
little troublesome or that are bugs. And the big one is images.
For lit. There seems to be some caching going on. And like when
I if I do no agenda, and I do the lit hits the pod paying
everything flows, it'll pop up. And I'll see on the live bot on
Mastodon it will have the correct image but the
notification and sometimes even the actual image on the on the
live on the Live episode will be the older image. Is there a way
I can bust that cache and there's something that I can do.
It's difficult I'll have to look into that more the it there
could be caching things that They're out of our control at
the time that a feed is parsed and also when the user plays the
show. So if they get a notification, they immediately
press play, whatever image we have at that moment is going to
hang around in the player and not correct itself. Magically,
if unless, you know, but maybe 15 minutes later, we reparse and
we get the correct image that can work, I will have to look
into it more. And if this is like a finer, finer tuning,
something we lack is maybe a good environment to run our own
tests like this with to be able to reproduce the steps that the
podcasters are using. So these sorts of bugs can can crop in
there, because in my tests, it's working fine. But I'm doing a
much more limited test, then. You know, in the case of no
agenda.
Alex, what what do you are you supporting live pod pings in
peer tube yet?
No, which is I know very ironic, supporting live, live episodes,
live streams. But I've done all the work in general with
ParaType is to allow that to happen.
That's part of your RSS work.
And part of the plugin work.
Okay, I just wondered how you were planning on? Like, do you
have a strategy for that for because caching is just always
it is, you know, one of the fundamental issues? Do you kind
of have a theoretical idea of how you're going to handle that
with images and such.
And I've already got, I've already got the handle.
Basically, whenever the live state changes on a video live
stream, I'm clearing the cache. It lives in the server side. So
where are you what what kind of caching do you use? Is it behind
a CDN
now appear to be using a built in cache in memory cache? So
basically, it doesn't have to recreate the RSS feed every
request. So to me, Misha, it sounds like a race condition
where you might be sending the notification before you finish
parsing.
Possibly, I think in the sequence of things, it's
supposed to wait to send the notification until after that,
but you know, there's lines of code for me to the way that
we're all through
the place, you can see it perfectly is in 100%, retro the
live stream, which by the way, is phenomenal how it works. And
Dave, thank you so much for coding up their their electronic
programming guide. So I get about 10 lit notifications a
day. And it's for the show, and it's always the wrong image.
Sometimes it's the same image for several hours. So it's
whatever in general, I know, this is a problem with podcast
apps. I think podcast addicts. I mean, I see people who are who
will tweet out an episode and it's an image from three months
ago. I mean, there's even though it was in the spec to be able to
have different channel level images, item level images, it
really never got the attention that it should have. Because
most people don't do that. But I think more people would do it,
if they can see if they actually see the result of it changing on
a regular basis. It's just it's a general issue. And any way we
can resolve that would be great. It's just it's too bad because
everything else works beautifully.
Sure, I wasn't even aware that 100% Retro didn't always have
the right image artwork. So that's a great test case that I
can.
Yeah, that's actually really good. Because it rolls like
every two hours, but anything, any man, I'd be happy to do any
any type of test anything that I can help with anytime.
Tell me what you want. Mitch, I can always make adjustments to
that feed generator, because it's real simplistic. So if you
want me to test different, like cache busting, or whatever I
can, maybe that will help you pinpoint where the issue
is. Okay, if the image always has a different URL, I would
expect us to always get the right image. So I doubt that
100% Retro was using the same image URL and alternating the
image.
Well, they would know because they
know it's not it's a different it's a different URL. Yeah, it's
a different URL. But yeah, we'll work together on it. See if we
can figure it out.
Cool. Oh, 100% retro, by the way, it's great. Because it's
like my sanity check. Because I'm subscribed to notifications
for it. And late in the night, if I'm like, worried, how is our
live stream still working? So can I see all these
notifications?
A little anecdote? No. So this is just a guy I know, from 100
years ago, he's in Belgium, he's put all his own money into this.
He has, you know, some investors and so now he's now he always
planned to go down the advertising route. So he's he's
finally a opened up advertising. And of course, a new stream
without any marketing, you know, these he's gonna have to do some
marketing to get people to listen. But just as an anecdote,
in the first month of him running with ads, he actually
made more money with value for value streaming. Even though
it's from me you I think Cleveland may boost it from time
to time Dave probably he actually made more money and it
was more exciting to everybody to see the money coming in. In
real time, he just got a an lb lb wallet hooked up to it, it
was really is really quite interesting to see that we're
shaking asked there. It's really nice. Speaking of which, of
kicking ass, Dave, if I may, just to interrupt the
conversation for a moment. Is it possible to hand off some of the
incoming stuff that you deal with? Because I saw your you
said, Hey, I actually spend more time with email with podcast
index than anything else. Is it possible to hand off something
so that I can help reparse a feed when someone hits I get the
same emails, but I really don't know what to do or how to help.
One is, I need you to remove this one. Because I'm now here.
The other one is, not all my episodes are showing up. Are
there things that you can hand off to me or and I'm really
available for that, or any other person so we can alleviate some
of that, because it's an incredible waste of your time.
And I I really, I'm happy to do anything. I mean, I can I can
perform commands, you know, just tell me what to do. And I can I
can make stuff happen. I seriously, I mean this, I hate
that you're bogged down by that. I mean, I was able to wrangle
the takedown notice out of your hands, like except that you
shouldn't be dealing with that crap. But he's more on let me do
that.
Man I appreciate it's just it's one of those things, like, you
know, like, with all projects like this, you have, you have,
you can solve the issue by writing the software that allows
people to help. But that requires hours and hours of work
to write the software to allow people to help. So it's just,
you know, you get in this catch 22, where you're like, Okay, do
you? Do you spend all this time writing the tool that's gonna
save you time later? Or do you just do the thing now and get on
with it? And so, I mean, at some point, I'll just have to buckle
down and solve this problem, which is kind of what I'm having
to do with the API at the moment. Because, you know, after
looking at what happened this morning, you know, it's it's
just, there's things, there's technical debt that goes back,
literally all the way to freedom controller, August of 2020. We
win, wait, you know, when I rolled the API in six weeks,
right, and so like, there's things that that I still have to
crawl out from under for that. And that's just, it's just kind
of it's time for that stuff to happen. So yeah, I mean, I'll,
yeah, it's solve that issue at some point. But I mean,
or how about this? How about this? How about when those
requests come in, we set up a process, where I make sure that
these people get a reply and tell them that it's in the queue
and will be on the way, and then you can just, you know, there's
a stack that comes in, and you can deal with it whenever you
want. I mean, anything to get you out of the out of the
squirrel moment of oh, yes. If someone wants this, Oh, someone
wants that, you know, just even if it's just to say, you know,
expect, expect your answer in 48 hours or whatever, you know,
something that we can do. It's just,
it's now I was grumpy because I just dug out of like, you know,
over 100 emails of having to go through there. So, but no, I
need I need Mitch his brother. That's who I need. I just need
to forward all my emails to Michel's brother.
Wait a minute, am I missing something here,
but my calendar helps, Kyle helps. With a lot of day to day
I throw basically all kinds of different tasks at him. We try
to respond to people within one to two business days. And most
of the requests we get through are for related to podcasts
request, either a feed is missing, or the feed hasn't been
parsed for recently for one reason or another. And those are
things we want to be able to respond to immediately. And
they're pretty easy to do. But you know, when I'm constantly
doing programming problems, it gets to be quite a burden to be
replying to all these. So I'm just
gonna have a T shirt that says talk to Kyle.
You correspond with him quite a bit. I don't know I could ask if
he's if his services are available to get a price.
I literally offered the same thing for free.
I think Dave needs a ticketing system and you have to find SLAs
SLAs we know the ticketing system. Alex's is you get an
auto reply that says, Here's your ticket number and then just
nothing ever happens. Please
get a ticket number I read the riot act to someone the other
day.
You did. Yeah, I'm in an email box like, hey, stop being rude.
Yeah, Dick, cuz you were like, Oh, looks like your feed is part
really Dave, who really are all the episodes in really? Have you
checked it out? Now I'm adding the emphasis of the voice that I
heard at the time,
he taursus slave level agreement SLA,
he did come back and said, Oh, man, I didn't know you guys were
just volunteers and I positioned at something like that. Oh, I'm
sorry about that. But in general, the attitude that
people have about how technology works sometimes gets me very,
very angry. And I had a very shitty experience and it was all
my fault. Where you know, the show that Tina and I do curry in
the keeper going to keep her.com Everybody, which is which we
only accept value for value through podcasting. 2.0. And of
course, people send us bottles of wine. So okay, well, Oh,
crap, we'll have to take that. But, you know, I've always said
they have to read the instructions that the app gives
them. And I could always tell by, you know, and so people will
message Tina on Instagram, there's a very unsophisticated
users. And they're like, Okay, we really want to do it, and
we're really motivated, but we can't figure it out. And I was
like, they have to read I can tell they're not reading and
people don't read. You'll never get them to read. But then I
said, Tina, why don't we sit down and we'll go through you
have not been through the process yourself. You have not
set up a podcast app bought Bitcoin, put it in figured out
how to get it onto lightning and and then actually boost to show
that she's okay. This is a good idea because it was it was
causing tension between us because I get all huffy, like,
oh, people don't read. They don't care. And they don't they
don't we just have to admit that. And so she's like, well,
you know, they don't understand they're just trying to help. So
we went through it. I was it was a ghastly experience, we have
zero, good me even get Alby if you say, Oh, just use get LB and
hook it up to pod verse, PA, there's no information flow is
just an IP sucks. And we need to create some kind of project
again, something I'll be happy to spearhead whether the apps do
it themselves, you know, I had a Oscar Mary came back and said,
Oh, you know, it's gonna be much easier in version six, I presume
they're going to integrate the Bitcoin purchase right in there.
But even you know, the idea of I was saying to people, oh, just
go to cash app, and then you cash app, you can transfer it
Well, dude, it took a little while to figure out how you can
actually do with cash app, there's no no explanation of
that. So we need overall, we need to make sure that we're at
it. I am just as guilty of thinking, hey, you know, you
just have to follow the instructions. There's no
instructions anywhere really, that are of any use to anybody.
How do we do this? Is this something that should be a
central point should be something on podcasts index that
we explain different ways to purchase Bitcoin different ways
to get it into the Lightning Network? Is that something the
apps will do can do, since I only have you here, Mitch? I
mean, do you feel that you have an adequate explanation of how
this works? Or do you kind of dump people off and get Alby and
rely on get lb to help people understand because get LB is, is
unless you're a podcaster. If you're just someone who wants to
hook it up to pod verse, there's some gaps in the steps.
I think with the process of just connecting your lb wallet, it's
pretty straightforward, but the big knowledge gap is creating an
LV account and loading it with Bitcoin. And big strides were
made this year around a few months ago. So Alby previously
only allowed you to send send using the Lightning Network to
send sets into it. And that I wrote a tutorial myself and it
turned into like, like five pages of like needing to use a
third party app intermediary like you go from your exchange,
you go to this third party app, you send your SATs here then you
send it to LB and it was a big, it was just way too complicated.
But they have added unchained deposits. So now you can go
directly from wherever you buy bitcoin, and just send just
withdraw directly to your lb account so there's no Lightning
Network intermediary needed to get the the exchange doesn't
even have to support the Lightning Network for you to
load your wallet with SATs.
Wait a minute, wait a minute, don't you have to hook up an app
to your Alby wallet first.
What I believe it'll give you one by default, I didn't have to
connect a node I just signed up for lb. And they gave me a
wallet.
That you can that you can. Oh, that's ending right now. That is
new. Okay. That's cool. All right. All right. Oh, okay. So
might
have been one of the earliest adopters and this that
I hadn't actually seen this, this screen because when I went
maybe three days ago, I went to Aldi and I said, Okay, I want to
I want to receive into the lb wallet, it said, Oh, you have to
get a get Zeus and connect it this way. That that that was
like, What I haven't seen this top up either. Okay, this is
good. I think I'm just gonna write some stuff. And it may be
people can use it as a template, because I understand that
everyone's kind of like, well, you know, you do it there. You
do it there. But then everyone has all these pieces, and they
don't quite connect. And it's, it's just, it's just a shame,
because we're so close to everything.
Let me say anything, anything crypto that has to go through
KYC. I mean, it's just across the board. I mean, it's always
going to be
I'm always I'm not even, I'm not even talking about it. Just we
need to tell people what's going to happen. And Cash App is the
worst. I mean, and this is a big corporation, this is a public
company. Let me just tell you how Cash App went. Okay, Tina
installed Cash App. Great. Congratulations, you have cash
app, now figure out how to buy bitcoin, Oh, hold on a second,
we need to approve you to go through a process. Good. You'll
be verified very soon. So she got verified within 30 minutes
and just kept saying, verified. Now, this is when she was
sending a payment. And so the first thing she thought was, oh,
I'm verified. So the payment was sent, right? No, of course not.
Of course, they don't send that just because they verify you,
then you want to send bitcoin, then they all hold on a second.
Now we need your driver's license, we need a picture of
you. So it's very scary to people when they don't know. And
Moon pay does the same thing. I think when they don't know
what's happening, it's like, you know, you see something called
Moon pay the fact I have to get my driver's license to moon pay,
you know, it's scary to people. So we need to have some legit,
right? Sounds like crap like Moon pay? No, what is this
Russian. So I'm going to start a I'll do it on the GitHub so
people can can contribute to it. So we can just write something
up. That that is general for everybody. And then we can pick
and choose integrate that into your own FAQs or whatever. And
again, a handle on my own heart here i I really thought it was
much better explained.
Well put part of the problem is been that what is required is
changed on an almost monthly basis. And things are evolving.
So if I write a tutorial from three months ago, yeah, there's
now a much easier process today than there was three months ago.
So we've been boring.
Or Mitch, honestly or harder, because I mean, the Cash App
didn't used to be that hard. And it's harder now than it was six
months ago.
Let me tell you the thing about cash app. So we've got all this
set. And then we're now we're going to copy the invoice to
fund the wallet. And I say oh, yeah, just you don't have to
scan it, just copy it there. You go to Cash App. And cash app
doesn't have a paste this code. It has only the scan. And I'm
like, I can't undo it. And then and then I we saw a video from
three months ago. Ah, you can paste the code, if you go into
it to back to the homepage of the app and click on Bitcoin,
but not, not if you go, and I think it's a bug on there and
not if you go to the pay screen, it doesn't have that option. So
there's so much going on. And ultimately, I mean, I'm even
looking at this Alby. And this is actually quite good. I mean,
anybody could use this, because you can buy it right there and
you have an enlightening and then you can fund a wallet with
it. And I'm actually thinking I'll be is, is a very good
onramp at this point.
Yeah, I kind of buried the lead when I said the on chain
deposits, because that was a step forward. But this new moon
pay integration. Yeah, you can use a credit card. I haven't
gone through the process. I guess there's some KYC Of
course, of course, of course. However, you just go to LB and
then your the whole process is there. Once you create a wallet,
you put you buy some SATs, you put it in it, then you open up
pod verse go to the value for values scream
the authentic. Yep. And I do that twice. I do that twice,
three times. That is
unfortunate. I think there might be a graphene OS related
100% 100% 100% Don't worry about it. I don't mind because all I
have to do is just hit the V for V again and then just connect
and then it works. And it remembers the amounts I put in
there just forgets the connection for some reason. I
don't know why.
Yeah, I have to look into that. That's some the token.
Could it be IE, perhaps my MAC address changes every single
time I connect to a different network. Is it one of those
security things that's screwing it up? That might be an Al B
question.
It would depend on what type of so right now the wallet will
auto disconnect in pod verse if it gets a unauthorized response.
Which makes me wonder if there is extra security happening. I
don't know what changing that. Honestly, if somehow I find
myself reconnecting to Alby in contracts in a browser, I have
to reconnect regularly with the Saturn stats. So it's probably
the I have too much security in my life. I'm running more
dangerously.
I'm running any graphing OS to Adam and I don't think I have
the issue. So it's for strange.
Your pod verse and graphene. Right, Alex?
Yeah, that's not my primary efficient just using 10 up.
Okay, but I'll give a shout out.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it. I just don't want to bother Mitch,
if it's something that's completely on my side, you know,
so don't have to deal with that crap.
Now, you're an expert at breaking things.
I am so good, valuable service. Steel, a speaking of such, I
want to promote the value for value dot info. website, which
I've been trying to get it out there, but not a lot of
traction. It's, it explains what value for value is and how it
works in context of podcasting. 2.0. So I'm putting that in the
show notes. Pass it on, let people know. And we finally were
able to make HTTPS work with new podcast apps.com.
So is it is it we're new? Yeah. Yeah, of course. Now,
after I paid pay for, for certificate.
Oh, he had to pay for certificate?
Well, if you do it through DNS, simple. I mean, ultimately, you
wind up paying for something somewhere. I mean, yeah. Don't
worry about it. It's I'm happy. It worked. I didn't know that
was possible. And so that that was a big, that was a big win,
because I think that was breaking everywhere.
Hey, Alex, can you give me an update on what you're like and
where you're at with your managing have no agenda tubes,
like, I guess I want I want to say moderation. But that's not
really what I'm talking about. You did a bunch of cleanup and
got rid of a bunch of crap accounts and that kind of thing.
But then also, like, what, how do you manage in general, the
comments section and all that stuff? I mean, like, what, what
do you do there?
Yeah, so basically closed open registration. Because the most
of the signups after the initial kind of announcement, but his
bot accounts like linking to looking outside of the site. So
I ended up cleaning up like maybe 30% of the accounts. So
that was fine. And then as far as comments, I don't there's
not, there's not a ton of comments. But it goes in line
with the traditional, I believe the traditional activity pub
reporting mechanism. So if someone reports a common ocular
notification, and I cannot act upon it there, I can either
ignore it, or I can, you know, delete the comment from no
agenda to I can't delete the comment because I don't have
access to other people's servers. I can also block
domains. So I mean, it's just like you'd see a mess. I think.
Oh, speaking of we got we got Fetty blocked hashtag Fetty
blocked on pasture podcasting index dot social, for the for
being, quote, libertarian and crypto.
Who who did that? I don't know. How do you know how do you know
we got blocked gooery posted
a screenshot from some other incidents that blocked us.
Hashtag city block. And the reason libertarian slash crypto.
That really sums everything up. Well, that's whatever you
whatever you're doing, Alex, I want to do that, too. I mean, I
think I think I just want to close. I think I just want to
close registration. I mean, do people have to email you to do
it? Or do you have some sort of trickery that they have to run
through? What are you doing? To register? Yeah, to get an
account?
Yeah, right. Now they would have to contact me with an email
address and create their own account.
Okay, because I think that's the way I'm going because the open
signup is just I feel like it's a losing battle. I feel like
didn't No matter what I do, there's going to be some bot
tree out there. They can defeat it.
I also have sign in with no agenda social, which just uses
OAuth.
Oh, no, you can that's basically how comments are work,
right? It's not the same thing with peer to peer. But yeah,
that's, that's a good flow if, if you want someone to sign and
it was like, you could you could assign on GitHub for if you
want. So,
so if, okay, so now since you're here, we're talking about no
agenda to, if I wanted to ask Mo, for mo facts, to start using
no agenda tube, what are the pieces he needs? And what is
missing? Or what do what do we need to do? Because the
disconnect I'm seeing is, well, one he would need, he can send
an RTP s stream, which I know that works, I've done that, then
what comes out, you have your own RSS feed. So that will be
separate from the RSS feed we already use.
Yeah, although you could take that item and put it in yours if
you want.
Right, but that would be that would require manual
intervention.
Or a script? Yep.
Is there something that you're that you're thinking about in
that way? I mean, obviously, want to keep your, your your
split in there. And all that working? is just how do we, you
know, we have our RSS feed, we want to have a user lit tag, we
want to go lit when people to pop up there, what is the best
way to do that.
So what I'm working on is targeting people who want to
stand up their own peer tube instances and use it as their as
their feed. Okay, yeah, kind of like, I want people to be able
to replace YouTube or Twitch, and not have to know how to host
an RSS feed. I mean, you saw, there's two ways you could do
it, you could have a permanent live stream. And just put that
in your feed and keep it there forever, just like you do with
icecast or more, or whatever you do for your mp3 stream, but no
dentistry. That would work.
Otherwise, so that would just be our own our own video server
basically.
Well, if you want to just know, genitive, it would be a put your
your live stream no agenda to your own there.
Okay, but then you don't necessarily get your split,
unless we put it in specifically.
Right, you'd have to add that. Okay. Which I mean, that's the
case with any external links and RSS feeds. I don't think that
gets all that problem. Okay, so we are working, there's a
camera, his name, there's someone working on a lightning
plugin for peer tube. And what I want to do is, hook in with
that, so I can put the value block into the feed too. But
then, I still you'd still have to have some kind of script to
pull it in.
And Mitch to you. Does pod verse do video? We'll do that kind of
video. I should say.
We do support video. I don't I'm not aware of any live streaming
video podcasts unless maybe Todd Cochran is has done one. We have
a limitation currently, which is we don't support HLS video
streams. Alex is well aware of this. He's the one who told me
about it.
Everything you dropped everything but HLS. Right, Alex?
Yeah, basically, the way peer tube works, I cut my storage in
half. Most supporting HLS right now it caught my paying
significantly less.
Yeah. And the good news on our end is that over the holiday
break, I created a branch for the mobile app where I'm
upgrading our video and audio library. It was a big, big
undertaking, and we need to do a lot of testing this is gonna be
a longer because yeah, if if the audio player or video player
have issues, that's the whole app. So we're going to I've been
delaying the release into beta until we have like a feel good
about our stable, you know, our version that we have live that
will beta test deeply for a couple of weeks. all goes well,
then we should be able to support HLS video pretty soon.
Killer. That's awesome. In your how health? how responsive has
appeared to been to your upstreaming in on all that. Do
you think that's gonna go pretty well, Alex?
Yeah, I can work on that this weekend. Obviously, they wanted
some changes. It's always it's always more difficult to work
with someone else's software than your own because you it's
as much politics as is developed. Yes, it is. I think
they're open to it. And I think some of the people understand
that. Having an RSS feed is very beneficial. So um, there are
many users asking for it. So, yeah, I think it's going well.
May I suggest we thank a few people. Now that were a buck 30
into this yet, let's go. We've had some. We've had quite a
number actually. Quite a number of live booths coming in. We'll
start with Mike Newman. The most recent 123,456
shot caller 20 blades on him Paula.
I think anything over 100,000 Is that Is that a big baller every
100,000 Plus we're gonna have to up the ante here on what's
down the ante with with the Martin. Way prices are
great hearing a full board boardroom to start the new year
today I'm creating I'm streaming with curio caster and boosting
from pod verse small right. Cheers. Wow, cheers to a
productive and collaborative 2023 for the PC to o community.
All right, Mike. Thank you very much. 10,000 SATs from Sam Sethi
again. Who says my lightning address Sam had Get out b.com is
also my noster account. Oh yeah, we haven't even talked about
that thank God as lb hold my public and private keys could
well be also integrate to Mastodon the same way. So I
could use my lightning address to post to Mastodon the same way
I can today with noster to any relay that I'm logged into. Who
I don't know Alex yes or no.
Sorry. Can you repeat the question?
I don't understand the question. So it's lightning and he's he
has a lightning address. It's Sam and get alby.com. It's also
his Nasr. Public Key. I guess that's what he says when he says
my noster account. Yeah, so if you use his public and private
keys for that could Alby also integrate into Mastodon in the
same way, so I could use my lightning address to post a
Macedon? I don't know if that's possible. I think so.
That's a difference between identity and service. So no, I
mean, you could log in with it. Maybe if they supported that.
Okay, I don't think it does. They would have to, they would
have to run a message on service.
Okay. Martin, Linda's cog row of short row of ducks. He says,
Hey, thanks for going for the flow for the user of a pod
catcher and listener to a podcast I think he means for the
comments. There Sam Sethi again, which we talked about with his
super project. Pod fans. That's the 10,000 SATs 33,333 from
cotton gin. Happy New Year go podcast podcast. 20,023 from
last stock Calavera first boost for the New Year from my own
node. Congratulations you full node owner you here's my two
saps on cross app comments fine for live stuff. But boost should
be the main mechanism for regular releases. I like
chapters I like boosts I'm not wanting I'm not wanting for
comments. I am curious to see how the value tag evolves this
year. Could a big player like Venmo get involved? They could
do Fiat but they also buy and sell Bitcoin and shit coins to
their users. Maybe it will be possible for someone to use a
service like that and bring it mainstream there's a lot there.
So I mean, that's your that's a personal preference. About boost
versus comments. I think we we kind of went through that I
think we have some consensus on that and how that could be
integrated but clearly separate. And yeah, any player can get
into this the spec is open so I don't see why not the problem is
typically with Fiat systems that they don't do very well at small
amounts for transactions. Then he comments
for the idea that booster grams and comments are separate. I
don't think it from a user experience they have to be all
that separate. If you look at YouTube live streams today they
have a chat and the super chats which are paid comments appear
within the chat they just have you know a value next to them. I
think a comparable experience is possible with booster grams and
process.
I look forward to it Mitch, you know me I'll be the one
promoting it and breaking it at the same time. I'm very happy to
try that. Big players Yeah, big players are already getting into
the to the to the value space, which in general is good as long
as you know they can adhere to the way it works, I guess. I
mean, that seems to be an open I don't know if we have time to go
into that. Dave, if you want to comment on that.
The moment on which specific though it's like Venmo
or anybody coming in, I guess.
I don't know. I don't I don't know. That's just that's not
really I hate to say that I don't care. I guess because I
mean anytime some big player does something it has the
potential to you know, make waves and do all this stuff for
good and bad I guess but I just I don't know that I'm just not
focused on that. I mean, like that, to me, the, the, to me,
what matters is that you're able to do things direct, directly,
peer to peer. I mean, and, and I don't think we I think so much
of so much of everything that we do today is built in these on
these big platforms that I just want to minimize that. I mean,
you can't get to be realistic and say, Well, you can't ever
completely get away from it. Maybe but I don't know. I just,
um, through caring about what about what the big players are
doing?
No. There you go. I'm not implementing I'm excited. 33 333
from Eric P. P. Pew pew. He says thank you very much, Eric.
Appreciate it. The 6969 from a citizen fountain is great and
all but it's absolutely proprietary software sent to you
from pod verse powered by get Alby. Okay. Wow, that's an odd
one.
Well, thank you. Yeah, we are free and open source software.
And, you know, we love that some people appreciate that.
10,000 from Borlaug. Thank you. 17,776 from blueberry a big
freedom boost excited for this one. Mitch has come to chew
bubblegum and kick ass and he's all out of bubblegum. Go
podcast. Martin Linda cog. Linda's cog. Also very happy to
hear Mitch his voice 1776 And we have 1999 from the tone record,
please explain the Pugh sound trigger setup or share link
slash INFO. Looking to implement one here with music specific
boosts a sounds for boosts 808 SATs for triggers. Oh, he's got
a whole bunch of different tech. Well talk to blueberry about
that. And Sir Spencer and those guys because they've set all
that up. I'm not even sure how it works. We do have the pew pew
sound this one is in heli pad. Which I have been going through
my old domains or my hundreds of domains and trying to reduce
some. Some of these are pretty expensive. It turns out if it's
not a.com And we have heli pad dot cloud still do. Does anyone
know that? Yeah, it actually it points. It points to the GitHub
for helipad. The helipad is still a great program. I mean, I
use it every single time I'm doing stuff with the show. I
know it's like it might have dropped off everyone's radar for
a bit. But man, it's a great great little program
particularly for live stuff. And, and I see Todd Cochran is
next with 125,000 SATs, Todd Bala
Sakala. 20 is blades only Impala.
And Todd is using the lb related Saturn live view of the package.
Todd, I would say if you can get heli pad running, it only goes
off with boosts. Because I was listening to the live stream
from NAB. I think that's where they're at this week. And he's
doing a nine hour live stream. And so I'm listening and I'm
sending 200 SATs a minute. That's my standard.
And I'm a data controller. Okay,
I keep hearing every minute what it was like blooming, whatever
that sound is from, from Alby. We're, like oh, man, I should
stop sending the money, because it's annoying now. It's
like a 70s game show. Yes,
it does. So helipad is still a fantastic piece of software. If
you have Umbral, then it's right there in the in the store. I
love it. I think it works great. I use it to export my booster
grams from so I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows
heli pad dot cloud $50 a year but I'm happy to keep using it.
And Todd says hey guys, blueberry is really close and
releasing a bunch of podcasting 2.0 features. We'll be doing
final testing on our dashboard next week. Then we work on power
press. Go podcasting. Yeah, Podcast. I'm very excited about
that, Todd. So happy to see you jump in. And we had to pull you
in. We had to take your clothes off. We had to put your bathing
cap on but you're in in the deep end. We love that
and know where you're going with that.
It's true. Let me see. I think those are what No, I have a
couple more and other breweries. 1776. Thank you very much. Do I
have anything else here? Well, then I have the delimiter which
means it's time to hit it over to you Dave. So what do you
have?
We got a we have a pate. We have a Pay Pal. One Pay Pal this week
from blueberry $150 Whoa, whoa,
hold on a second. It's a baller.
Play on the Impala.
Does he already have a coveted t shirt?
No he does not but I will be I will be glad to send Todd and
Mike
cinnabar T shirts if they will make sure you let us know guys.
Yeah, thank you very there was no note. So I guess I guess the
boost was the note. Okay, the we got some histograms though.
We'll see. Blueberry row 611 111 through pod Verse eight says
keep it skanky.
That's also known as a satchel of Richard.
Oh, okay. All right. What does this term mean satchel of
Richard Well,
that's the British for bag of dicks. 1111 is a statue of
Richard it's the polite way to say it.
Okay, this in company in polite company
came up the other day. Like, oh, okay, I got you. Okay
in for VX 3333 through curio castering He says PC 2.0 To the
moon 2023 and beyond.
Thank you. Is that a boost? Or as a boost? Yes. 808 I'm
guessing no. 33330 That's different usually does. 808 All
right. Thank you.
Martin lenscoat He says it's a roadex tu tu tu tu and he says
cheers. What do you drink? James? You should drink tea.
Martin, Linda Scott. All right.
That's from our our year end episode.
Martin sent us a Russia 2112 boost and he says the Asian
market is the way to go. Is contro is a good ingredient for
Margarita.
This is all boosting basis. All boosting from that show. Yes.
Let's see. We got Mike Dell said 5555 through pod verse. He says
last boost to 2022
Nice one Mike Thank you. Blueberry.
Again at with boost CLI 33 333. And he says next week makes 100
Live episodes of behind the schemes in the can going live
with IRC and a voicemail line is such a killer combo 10 out of 10
would recommend Yes.
I'd love to understand how you're triggering all those all
those sounds with different amounts.
The goat slaughter Yes. Yeah,
I mean it's I'm sure it's documented somewhere but I just
love to see if I can do it myself. I love it. I love the
idea.
Net Ned sent us 10,000 SATs through fountain and he says not
DJ not VJ PB and J pod boosted Jackie. Boost tone records and
is 1999 1999 through curio Catherine says appreciate the
later live session today. A chance to sit in and chat
finally while logged out of work now. Oh, James Cridland oh this
this is your boost. This is your 100,000 Boost. Am I am I am I
overlapping do we do already do
Yeah, I don't think no the 100,000 book. Yes you overlapped
these were we read these while live? You got the 100,000
though. Yeah, that was for the bet. Now interestingly, it
should have gone to me alone but okay. And he actually he
actually sent like I think 10% back to Himself because we put
them in the split but okay. All right.
That wasn't that was a little sneaky. Yeah.
He did it last year too. And I'm sure for the next 10 years as I
remained correct on my with my bet that Apple will never
release Apple podcasting to Android. Just we'll just keep it
going to the indexes fine.
Let's see so I gotta I gotta make sure that I am in the right
thing. So we did
so Burberry says that all those sounds are triggered by IRC
okay? So it's a combine yes of the boost bot and IRC Well it's
good to know I mean, I'd love to understand I can get into IRC
stuff
um let's see okay. Oh, we got Peter sent us I don't I don't
think we did this way. I don't think so. Peter gave us 333 333
What? Through fountain
33 333,333.
Blades on am Paula no joke HR
Thank you.
He says thank you pod father postage and the mini mini pod
fluence errs out there making podcasts and 2.0 reality
including Alex and Mitch onward and upward boost boost boost
yay. 2023 sets through from Matt candle through fountain needs to
Happy New Year. Great meeting you at Podcast Movement. Great
meeting you to elite 1337 through gene from gene B. And
through fountain he says so glad to hear Dave say he's going to
build the bridge between Mr. Graham's like this one and
activity pub. Well, that's the plan.
Hey, are you are you going to pod fest? Me?
Yeah, no,
no, I just want to show you. I don't think I can handle it
anymore.
I can't it's too close to tax season. Is this whole? Yes, of
course.
Of course.
It's already started to season. Another one from Jean being the
problem with podcast apps running a mastodon server that
provides users With accounts is that the app owners now
responsible for moderation and all the other overhead of
operating a mastodon instance, just talked about.
I think we're good. I think we fixed that.
Social proof is also from Jean Bailey boost. He says social
proof social proof is just such a great way of describing
comments. Okay, is it something that we said?
I'm trying to think what that was? I don't remember saying I
don't feel. I like it. I'm not sure what it is. But I like it.
That's it. There you go. That's the show title. Social proof. We
got social proof. Nice. Thank
you probably relates to your nostril key.
Oh, that's right. That's right. Because I was saying that the
Jack was messaging me on noster he was like, that's not Jack. Ma
It was
it's it's a Jack It's not Jack and listen to this. It was the
it was the jack. Sir Michael 2020 says through fountain No,
no, thank you, sir. Thank you. Jean bein back with to 22 to 22
through fountaining says putting out a shameless plug for the
volunteer technologist podcast, where we dive into the many ways
people who are technically inclined voluntarily put their
skills to use outside of their primary job. That's interesting.
Yeah, I'm gonna give that a listen. Mister Mister. Not the
band from the 80s as soon as seven 674 sets through fountain
no note that what was their big hit? What was Mr. Misters big
two big
hits. I think the guys live out here actually carry a liaison
and broken wings of really nice guy. So can we
show these brains when we
stop? We're killing each other.
Five hat 10101 binary booster curio caster no note Sachtler
Richards from Joel Debbie. You go. No note 1555 from nomadic
coder, no note 2023 from Borlaug through pod verse says wanted to
start the new year right. You too are a gift and an
inspiration. Oh,
all Thank you. Thank you so much.
From me 26,000 sets use through the app use social don't see
that very much. I forgot about use social. Is
that the one that's on umbrella? Yeah. Oh, very cool. That's one
of the first ones overseen from eusocial.
Me too. And I don't know who me is. But whoever you are, you
know who?
Thank you. You
build up Prag 2500 SATs through pod friend. I think he's a hive
guy. Right? I think you could be says there's a simple solution
for comments. But it would be decentralized and forever. It
already works on 20 Plus social friends that I know this year.
Okay, this is the way that I've got started is there is a
solution for this. And then they go on to describe it and then
they end up with the punch line. It's Hi everyone can send a rate
a pod thing everyone can send or see a comment. Yes. Thank you,
Bill. Appreciate that. 6969 through pod verse from a citizen
sending GNU Linux and Software Freedom karma your way for 2023
The year of Linux desktop.
I'm going to save you and I'm going to say I heard you say
good new Linux I'm pretty sure you didn't say GNU I heard you
say good new canoe? Yes. Let's because if you don't say good
new Richard Stallman will come over and fart in your room or
something. It's like very, very paranoid about pronouncing that
correctly.
Get yes said that. Yes.
I heard you know. Yeah.
Another 6969 from a citizen. The pod verse he says boosting
because I love it when Dave says hey, citizen. We'll keep it up.
Let's see you got a couple lowball SC 54321 from Roy. Phil.
Hello Roy. And he says this He says this is bug bounty for
Adam.
Made some bug bounty.
Thank you Roger one.
Please stop calling me just stop is too much. I can't handle all
the calls.
All the all the nonexisting call he keeps avoiding
me. I don't know he only wants to talk to you and I don't want
to happen. It's gonna make fun of his slippers.
Mint lion through. This is one of breezes random Rando names.
6666. And he says are the beautiful Aussie drawl of James
filled me with national pride. Great guest to kick off the new
year Karen. Guessing this for Mere Mortals.
Thank you Kira, buddy.
I also have a make good from Karen. Last week and he called
me out on it. I got the timing wrong when I dumped the boosts
and it says he sent 148,000 SATs last week that I missed Hold
on a second
follow up shot How long 20 is blades? Only him. Paula
goodness.
Thank you.
Yeah, and I'm really I'm sorry about that, Karen. He says
regarding ethics, I'm certainly more generous care more about
making a great product for my audience. And most importantly,
didn't have to sell my soul through advertising or paywalls
or x before finding out about the V four V model. And that's
all due to YouTube and podcasting tip window. Happy New
Year to you both and I'm super excited for podcasting in 2023
value for
value dot info.
I'm sorry about missing that current. Let's see Brian of
London in the hive Dao 118,801 sets.
Shot call our 20th blades on am Paul out
some good boost today.
He says bit of a catch up donation though my main hive Dao
funding has reduced quite a bit. But as Freddy saying The show
must go on. I'd
love to understand how that works. I mean, what why did the
funding reduce? Do you have any idea how that works? Or what the
deal is? I don't like he's doing more work than ever. I don't
understand.
I can explain. Okay. Basically, the funny he got was voted on by
the have community. And I think his his renewal of that project
is either up for grabs or it didn't happen.
Does that mean he loses all the funding? Or does it just reduce
it? He loses the thickets daily or monthly income? Hmm.
What but I don't want Brian of London funding pod ping hive HBD
stuff out of his own pocket?
No, no, he doesn't. Just when you send a pod paying, you don't
actually spend any currency. So he's already got all that. The
only we're the only word we would have there as if piping
usage increased in. We had to help contribute to that.
Brian, let us know.
Which I'm happy to do I mean, you know, we Yeah, I'm happy.
We're happy to do that. Let's see. Oh, here we go. Blueberry.
17 776 through boost CLI and he says he gets a link here. He
says I don't know what to do with or where to use these
audiograms but they are fun to make. He gives a plug verse
link. I don't know how to. Maybe we can post this in the show
notes or something.
I'm seeing if I can find it.
Okay, and the delimiter comic strip blogger 33,015 SAS through
fountain he says dearest Dave, and artful Adam cumin kind is
indebted to your rejuvenation of podcasting, which will have a
lasting effect upon the fate of our children's children. Well,
your ingenuity will even cross over into emerging technological
sentience. So do keep tabs on the blossoming spirit of
artificial intelligence with AI duck cooking the podcast recited
by your boy Guth, yo.
Well, that link leads to a clip on pod verse and that clip is
why use pod verse. I will put that in the show notes. How nice
is that? Oh, that is nice.
You might want to listen to it for I think I heard this clip.
I agree I
would really is that what the screenshots
so would you like me to not post this clip? Mitch?
Oh, it's up to you. I'm just blueberries a prankster.
So okay, well, it's it appears to be from our show. Yeah,
Alex said I concur.
Cookies, blueberries always doing innovative things with the
show art. Their show behind the scenes, like just has these
really cool animated gifts that they they make themselves and
they you know, he puts them in as the chapter artwork and
stuff. It's really something to see if you
I mean, I just I just saw it. I saw the V for V logo dancing
around.
He did yeah. Yeah, he did that. And you should play an episode
of Behind the scheme some time and on the website and or the
mobile app and check the chapters because he has a lot of
animated gifts that I think he makes himself.
Yeah, very cool. It's it's a feast for the eyes for sure.
I love those guys. Man. That's insane. The stuff they're doing
really is they've grabbed the lip stuff by the horns.
And we've got let's see, we've got some monthlies. We get Chad
Pharaoh $22 Excuse me $20.20 Caught Jalbert $12 Martin Linda
scope would $1 Mark Graham $1 Joseph maraca $5 Jeremy knew $5
And Cameron Rose $25 And that's our group.
Thank you all so very, very much and today's booster grams and
streaming payments will be split between The usual suspects who
have helped us out with this program, including Dred Scott
for the chapters, and obviously, our two guests here in the
boardroom, Alex and Mitch. And so you guys have to make sure
that you send me your lightning addresses, so that I can
implement that upon publishing. Sure, value for value. That's
how this whole project works. If it's something of value to you
determine what it is, according to your own pocketbook, send it
back to us, you can do it in a number of ways you could the
number one way is to go to that now functioning new podcast
apps.com. The website and then you can find many different
podcasts, apps, you heard one here today, pod verse that
actually will send this value back to the to all the people
involved in the project. You can also go to podcast index.org at
the bottom, the requisite red donation button, which leads you
to our Fiat fun coupon, PayPal link and also tally coin,
believe it or not that Tina and I got a tally coin donation the
other day as someone actually was able to do it. And it
worked.
I'm just glad the site works.
Glad anything works. Really. It's amazing. any of this stuff
works. All right. Should we wrap this up gems anything for the
round table?
Yes, I just want to say how much I appreciate, I think. And I
hope both of you Alex and Mitch, hope both of you know how much I
appreciate you all and what you'll do. Just glad. Just glad
to be a part of it. It's just fun.
Yeah, yes. Small, small request.
roundtable question for the gentleman. Yes.
So the one thing now that the popping news is kind of you
know, in the past, one thing that we didn't talk about was a
new version of pod Ping was playlists. I know I'm, I'm
always like a year ahead on this stuff. But if you're a
developer, you're interested, reach out to us so we can test
it out. Now before we finalize the spec for the newspaper.
And playlists would be most usable for the medium tag music,
music and maybe video, I'm going to do it for peer tube as well.
So do playlists that gonna is that going to be in your code
for the for the new stuff that you're you're pushing into peer
to do not know yet. Okay.
What what specifically, are you do you have a concern that
you're trying to tease out?
No, I just I it's a brand new idea. And I would like feedback.
I know it's President space.
And where do they go?
To they go to the remote island proposal, I think, in the
GitHub. Yeah, and the list, mediums and remote item and get
up yet. All right.
And of course, you can always post something on podcasts index
dot social or if your client is not banned because of our
libertarian crypto ways. We should be able to federate just
fine with you.
sipto Tyrians.
Oh, wait a minute. Hold on a second. crypto. Terrans. Dang,
that'll get you blocked everywhere.
I need to have that domain name. That's what I need. One last
thing here. Martin, Linda's Koch asked if we got his late 2022
boosts ram of 123456 Satoshis.
Did you get my late 2022? histogram of 123456? I don't. I
don't
know. Know if we got that one I'm looking for well, we weren't
for sure. I'll give you a
blade on am Paula.
There you go. No,
I just wrote it down. I'll go find it.
We'll go find it. Gentlemen, thank you very much appreciate
all of you. And it's going to be another stellar year as
certainly as advertising falls apart. There's a number of links
in the show notes that we didn't discuss today, but interesting
to watch regardless. And I'll be on Rogen this month. I'm really
going to see if I can get him interested in talking about
podcasting. 2.0 This time, I'm not sure. But I'm gonna try. I'm
gonna try. We just
need to get him moved over there notes in the tube and in Watch,
watch the Linode meltdown.
Zone peer to that's what I'm doing.
Let me let me tell you, it's unwatchable on Spotify. They I
pay for Spotify. They interrupt the video every 10 minutes with
an ad that has audio those people are stupid over there. I
don't know what they're doing. But they don't understand user
experience is really really debilitating. If you notice that
have you ever watched this video with those interruptions?
No, I haven't defined it and Rogen show yeah. And I don't I
don't really listen to it unless you're on it. So I don't I don't
have any experience
with it. Well, don't worry, you'll be experiencing that
within a few weeks. You'll see every 10 minutes Hey, I use you
know some great vitamins.
If he shows up on in a tube now let's just sudo shutdown dash H
now. Walk away.
Alright everybody. Thanks again guys really appreciate it. Have
yourselves a great weekend.
Thanks so much. You too.
All right, Dave. Take it easy brother. See you man. Give me
some tools I want to help out. Make it as you're on. Yeah.
That's it for the board meeting everybody. We'll see you next
week right here for podcasting 2.0
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