Oh, podcasting 2.0 for February 17 2023, episode 122 we're
trending. Hello, everybody Friday once again time for the
board meeting. That's not your end, no no. ARD meeting of
podcasting. 2.0 everything happening with the future of
podcasting, which of course is now podcasts index.org the
podcast namespace everything happening at podcast index dot
social. Yes, we are your raft of refuge in a sea of big tech
sludge. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill
Country on Alabama fresh from the API. Battlefield say hello
to my friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, the one
and only podsafe Mr. Game Jones
may have been a little too What would you call it? Like
aggressive? No, no. vulnerable, too much bravado in what I could
accomplish while you were doing the intro? Oh, you were
trying to announce our our liveliness our lateness are
put into posted on podcast index dot social. Yeah, it was great.
And it was like 401401 You're not authorized to log in. Oh,
and then LastPass wants my wants my 27 character master password.
I'm gonna type it in and
wait a minute. You're still on LastPass Yeah, but that thing's
compromised. Brah
notice, but I've got a fantastic password.
It's still raising income. I thought it was I thought you're
getting off that moving away. I thought you were discouraged.
Sad.
I am. But I'm not in a hurry. I'm good. Yeah, no, no, I don't
feel at risk. But I'm still I'm actually literally still trying
to log in as we're talking.
I finally set up. What is that? Vault ward? No. No, not bid
warden. It's the open safes on Umbro. It's an open source
version. Hold on now. I gotta check it.
Keep
KeePass Yes, thank you. Okay. KeePass. So and So KeePass. I
have an app, which is comes from the ever so trusted F droid.
Trust more than anything else, of course, and then I have the
server side on my Umbral that I think is okay.
I'm going to be a huge hypocrite on this. Because it has like
something about the open source aspect of KeePass makes me
uncomfortable. And it's not the code itself. It's not. It's not
the core key pass code that bothers me because I feel I felt
like that's great. I feel really good with an open source,
Password Manager, like the code itself. It's when I go to
install it on my phone from the App Store. And it's like,
there's all these ones that are there, like KeePass apps, I'm
like, oh, no, there's all of these people. Yes.
Remember, I'm running graph, you know, as I use F droid. So
there's a lot you know, there's a lot of checks and balances
going on. i But you're absolutely right. There's other
key pass apps which look exactly the same. And it's that to me,
is the honeypot right there?
Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, Who are you? Where's my sir? Where's
my passwords? Which server they go into? In what country?
Well, I gotta wonder. I mean, for the longest time was just
kind of keeping everything in the brave Password Manager. Is
that a very bad idea?
The brave Password Manager. Seems
it seems to be pretty, pretty. I don't hear I never hear oh, my
stuff got stolen. Although autofill can be a problem,
right? You can have audit, like some JavaScript or something can
call for an autofill and you don't even know it and it's
hidden under something and then before you know it, you know
you've you bought yourself a trip to Kuala Lumpur on your
credit card.
Congratulations on your travel miles. Yes, yeah, no, I think
it's fine. It's just like it stores it locally. The only
attack vector there is if something gets in your machine
or if there's a zero day in, in the Chrome chromium core but I
mean, like that's see that's the whole thing of like once
somebody gets in your machine I mean, all bets are off already.
Yeah, but anyway, we are lit we're living live that means the
show is recorded live to tape and before his live studio
audience there at our in our chat room. If you're using pod
verse, if you're using podcast addicts, you probably got an
alert if you're subscribed, and you ask for alerts and you open
it up you got where you get all your podcasts What do you get
immediately you you got the chat room you got the the live
stream, curio caster could be streaming it live with many more
to come soon. And you can now see all of the new apps at our
handy new URL, podcast apps.com Now, yes, podcast app. So guess
what's not on there. Oh, Apple's not on there. is Amazon's not on
that Google's Spotify. No Podcast apps.com This is where
you go to get your podcast apps.
This is sang to you Marcus couch. Thank
you Marcus couch.
That had to be expensive.
That's why I said don't give it to us, man. Just you keep it.
Yeah, you just forward it. Yeah, I don't know. What do you paid
for it? You won't they'll never tell me.
They didn't give them glad. Because then you can sell it
later. Yeah. And all of a sudden it'll become become a Kuala
Lumpur travel site.
Podcast apps No, not podcast.com No, I know. No, no. podcast
apps.com podcast.com That never turned into any good business as
far as I know who is podcast.com I remember that was like, at
once. Mark. Once Mark Cuban had broadcast.com and got $2 billion
for it. Oh, is the podcast just audible? What is this
podcast? podcast.com goes to Audible
is that audible? I podcast.com I have a simple and affordable all
on one podcast hosting and management platform.
Now when I type in podcast.com He goes straight as a redirect.
What
do you have? podcasts or podcasts? No, just with a T. Oh,
okay. Yeah. podcast.com goes to Yes, of course. Audible. Yes.
There you go.
They should donate it to us too.
Yeah, douche bags. I mean, juice sacks. Juice punctures.
Audible what we're here. Yeah, we're
ready for it anytime. Yeah. Ah, well
well, this base milkshake is not right. I dumped this in in a
hurry. I barely made it here for the show. And I like I did like
10 ounces of milk and I was like, Oh, that's a lot of milk.
So I'm just gonna dump
Oh, you just you just oh no, no, no, no, now it's like a digital.
It's just a big Gillette like I can't this isn't drinking
this is not again there we go up to Dred Scott right away 333,333
SATs it's been so long waiting for a podcast like this Don't be
a juice pouch donate support the index go podcast. Yeah, baby.
Oh, you're in Yeah.
333 threes. Whoa,
it's a super magic number boost.
God thank you Jared.
Yeah, just fantastic. And we have a jingle for that
somewhere. We have.
We have a we have a drip.
No, we should have a drip jingle now we have a magic number
jingle
magic number there you go. By the way, I've only got only
brought one clip boardroom today and I mean it's you can just
fire it will on that. Anytime you feel Froggy.
Oh, well, I'll hold on for a second. Okay, I won't do
anything. Thank you Dr. This is of course the instant feedback
mechanism that is being lit with our booster grams. Mad before we
get started, I want to I want to get a little update from the
battlefields last night all of a sudden you're posting about
you're fighting with with some scraper or some someone hitting
the API over a million times. And I have a question but first
I just like to get the updated for Are you okay? Are you
wounded? Everything? Everything? Functioning? You have all your
limbs still?
Like a little bit shrapnel in the knee than than MRI? Yeah,
I've made it through smell like smoke, but I'm alright. The No
it was this. Somebody. Let me go back. Let's see the origin
story. Oh, John Spurlock said the other day, maybe three days
ago. He's like, hey, something's going on around four o'clock in
the morning every night for like the last couple. Three.
First question. What's he doing at four o'clock in the morning?
That's my question.
I didn't ask him world domination.
No doubt world domination. That's what he's doing. Alright,
so what was going on? And it's not just last night, it's every
night now, I guess or happened before?
Well, I'm like, Well, I don't know. I mean, you know, our
crack system monitoring technology that you know, tells
me anytime there's a hiccup God didn't get an alert and alert.
Me. So this was a sophisticated you know why? Because there's
not one. Oh, okay. Yeah,
that would explain that. So when this happens is this does this
suck up resources that a Gemini thing? Or what is the result to
us? Performance wise?
Well, look, I looked back and I was like, I don't know that
there's something going on. And then I did with no with no
information at all. I did what every good SIS admin does. I
blamed Cloudflare. I said it's probably cloud flares now. And
that was just a buy me time so I could actually go and look and
see what really happened. So then, I went and looked and it
was like, around At times, some started like three o'clock in
the morning went to about five. For the last like two or three
nights and rows, it was just hammer time on the on the API.
And I thought, okay, that's weird. So I look back. And I
have a couple of scripts that I can run that looks at the logs
from the previous, like, 24 hours or so. It'll tell me,
which developer account has hit the most, and how many hits they
had over a certain timeframe. So I just ran that. And it was like
some, you know, it's always the same, you know, people that it's
very, it's a very, you know, a very common pattern. I mean,
it's like always, you know, fountain pod first, you know,
all these kinds of things. So, and then it was just some, you
know, Rando out of nowhere, it was like, 10 times as much
traffic as anybody even close. I was like, Okay, this is this is
out of control. So it was some rando Gmail address with a bunch
of numbers, and no, you know, no constant, you know, no vowels in
it. So I just deleted that guy. And then he comes back under a
different Gmail address. Like yesterday, and same guy random.
Now you are assuming gender, which I think is very dangerous.
If this was a woman, I would actually love to know that
because that would be that would be a first. I've never seen a
NFC I've never seen a hacker, like any of the mug shots or any
of these arrests that Europol does, where they do it and never
seen a woman in any of these groups.
That only happens in the movies. There wasn't literally in
hackers, the movie Hackers, it was our matrix. Yeah, checks.
Yeah, we're in the matrix. Exactly. Yeah. How disingenuous
is that?
Can we get that to happen, please? Because really, that's
great. But it is whoever this woman was that intro started
hammering the API came back, no different by hammering, sorry,
as in and just let us have it again. This time, three and a
half million requests, oh, about an hour and a half.
But now this isn't I presume this is not a denial of service
request. This is just someone who doesn't know that you can
actually download a copy of the database.
I believe that's always what these are. In woman though, even
though it says in, I put in the API response, the win rate,
limit them the response, you can download everything, yes, with a
link to it. And they just keep going, just keep going.
Oh, man, that's now what do you think that they're doing this
for? I mean, I would first of all, if anyone's doing this, I
presume most of them are trying to get email addresses. That
seems to be the the main I love the people who try to encode
podcasts. index.org Hey, hey, you know, I'm I'm experimenting
with something funny. I can't get the email addresses. I'm
just just a little guy over here. Just doing a little thing
on my Raspberry Pi. You know,
I noticed and I noticed the email addresses are missing from
the responses. Am I doing it wrong? Email address is like Joe
Joe at podcast marketing.com or something? Yeah. I think we have
mitigations in place, which I do not want to speak of. I do not
want to give give our adversaries. This top is
classified information. Yes. Highly, highly classified.
Oh, man. That's too funny. Well, I'm sorry. You had to go through
that. But it is what it is. But people please. The we should we
should put it somewhere on the website. Hey, don't put her up.
Right. If you want to use our API to scrape just download it.
Here you go. And by the way, send us a donation. Juice pouch.
I'm digging that that's dred Scott's we're like I'm I'm
digging that his kids aren't allowed to say douche bag at
home. So they use juice pouch, which I think is is a nice PG
version. Well,
when my when my son was little he was like, I don't know if
four five, something like that. He said something happened. He
said, Oh my God. And Melissa and Melissa was like, don't grant
don't take God's name in vain. Don't do that. He's like, can I
say oh my mouse? Yeah, sure. Sure. He's like, cool. Every
year. Yeah, we just looked at each other like, weird.
Well, it was it was a rough, actually kind of a rough week
for for servers for us. The podcast index
node. Yeah, channel pocalypse is what this well yeah,
I'm gonna I calling it the nostrils. Zap zap crash. Okay.
So I noticed I'm not even sure exactly what I noticed. Now I
noticed channels went down which is not a crazy thing because the
Lightning Network just seems to do this from time to time. And I
got I got a post or an email Hey, man, what did I do wrong?
Why did you close the channel on me? How can I improve my
behavior? My Why do you talk to people in websites? What? Right?
When, when a when a lightning node closes, and it has forced
closed, which I don't think I've ever forced close to channel
ever, ever. But you get the message force close and I get
forced because we both get it on each end. And then people take
offense to that, like, Hey, man, what do you do?
It's an aggressive name for force close.
Yeah. Yeah, you're right, it is kind of aggressive. And when you
do a force close, then the predetermined close amount comes
in action. So there's a timeout, which also can be, it can be a
week, in some cases, usually, it's a day or a couple of days,
I tried to set it reasonably low. But this was at the same
time that the Bitcoin transaction fees were in the
high teens and low 20s. Because of this nominals with this
ordinals mining business. Now, people are like, Oh, I'm going
to encode something into the blockchain on this set. And so
the blocks are supposed to be one by one meg in size, and they
seem to be encroaching to quite regularly. But the next block
over will be 300 500 megabytes. So So yeah, so the transaction
fees are just by the way, my two little miners here at home, I'm
doing two bucks a day. I'm rockin and rollin here, I'm
printing money. And
this is, I looked into this a little bit, I'd love to hear
your thoughts on the ordinals thing.
Well, let me get through the ZAP zap crash first. Alright, so um,
so Now luckily, we host this node at at voltage and I love
what and we've had it there from day one. And Graham is the man
who does not sleep. It doesn't matter what time I ping him. It
could be you know, three in the morning 9am 11 At night, he's
always there always.
And I don't understand how he does mean either mean either.
And this I think this is in the morning and I see like this 40
channels close. I'm like, Oh, what is going on? So and in this
just in just to try and get into the node was something like
thunder hub is a lot of joke at this point. And the thunder hub
just crashes we it's we have so many transactions. It's so we
had a 16 gigabyte size database. So I say to Graham said, Hey,
Graham, man, I got a whole bunch of force closures. I didn't do
anything. And so we're looking at it together. And he says,
Huh, says well, why don't we just restart it just for good
measure and see what see what comes back up this thing? After
an hour, it doesn't come back up. So now so now every every
sysadmin knows the trickle of sweat down your butt crack at
this point. Oh man, and you know, it was What day was it? It
was was it maybe a Monday? It was
Sunday? No,
I came on Sunday. Now it was a Monday because I knew and I
noticed that too. You know my one of my pod father unbel node
went down which is not irregular but okay. But also my other node
which I usually use to secure backups everything transpires
the node my
own bro, mambo got stuck here at home too. And I had to I had to
reboot. Yeah,
exactly, exactly. So this was a little uncommon behavior that
the nodes were literally trashed. So, so now Graham's
like, alright, well hold on a second. He's like, let me make a
backup on my end. Now I'm now my browsers is like wet.
Oh, it didn't say the B word.
Because we know we know, we know how fragile all this stuff
really can be. And ultimately, I think Graham has, he can do a
lot on his end. But like if we if we lose the password, we're
screwed. I mean, there's no way you're not bringing that thing
back up. He has no access to that. So and then we go into
compact ng mode. And it's three now but and that's midnight, and
I give up. And it's our it's been going for three hours now.
And so this node has been down almost all day. And I'm not I'm
not having a good time. And so comes back up in the middle of
the night, of course not functional because at 3am I had
to unlock the node which I couldn't do because I was
asleep. I had to go to sleep. And then I just didn't hear that
I did have my phone on but I didn't hear the ping from
Graham. So like 6am I unlocked the node. It's coming back I
have great the database has shrunk. We've compacted from 16
gigabytes to eight. By the way. How sexy is this Tech Talk come
out of my mouth huh? EMR.
I'm gonna go back and listen later.
So we're like, okay, trying to figure out what's going on. And
Graham says, wow, there's like, over 150 channel closes last
night or yesterday across the Lightning Network. And we start
investigating. So what's going on? Well, turns out that damos,
the the Jack Dorsey endorsed Jack and Dorsey noster app
released this zap functionality, which I'm a little confused if
it's ln pay ln URL payment system, or if it's key send, I'm
not quite sure. But I know what happened is we have so we we
have typically about 100 Plus channels open to a lot of
smaller nodes, which were which we love doing, we love providing
the liquidity, which is everything that comes into the
index node is turned around and is used for liquidity to anybody
who needs it. Basically,
we've had as many as like, 145 channels open pretty big.
Yeah, it's been very now that well, that definitely got
cleaned out. With that, so here's what happened. Cuz Graham
would, you know, Jesus, I think this is related. And then he
started digging in. So this was a beta release from from damos.
The app and one bad HDLC can really screw up the note. And as
it turns out, we got a lot there's a high correlation
between people who are connected to podcast index or their node
and who also use noster. Of course there is and so so there
were tons of, of zaps as they're called flowing routing through
our node and at least one but probably multiple HTL sees the
hash time lack of time lock. What is the contract contract?
That were either bogus or corrupted somewhere? I mean,
something is something went wrong. And that crashed our node
hard. And I think actually, Sir, sir, sir Pate, I think in in the
Netherlands. Let me see. He said, Oh, yeah, I had my Nasr
stuff hooked up there was a lot of fun. Why did you Why Why? Why
did you close the my channel? Is it Why didn't close it? Cost
Palin. There we go cost Pinto? Yeah. So and he's like, oh,
yeah, he ran late. Yeah, he ran it last weekend, he had to
nostra relay, you know, just a whole bunch of a whole bunch of
stuff running on routing through us. And I'm not saying was his
node specifically. I don't know. But but it clearly was a noster.
This zap thing that just that just totally, yeah, totally
screwed our node. So I've been very slow to reopen channels,
I'm waiting for people to come on and say, Hey, you closed my
channels. And no, I didn't. It happy to open it up. But please
don't use it as your nostril recipient node, because it's
just crazy. And there are limitations. You know, there's
limitations on stuff. And we had another. So one of the problems
we had, which I found out as people were trying to send
booster grams to carry in the keeper, which, like comic strip
blogger is one of them. And he and he was getting errors on on
my note, which at this point was reconnected to podcast index.
And he was doing it from fountain and he was not getting
through to me. And so I do some more digging turns out one of
the channels that closed which doesn't surprise me, I'm sure
lots of people were using their fountain address as the place to
you know, to zap to I think, yeah, just think,
you know, they would I mean, I would think
so yeah, I would think so. So that channel got closed, and
then whatever routing there was, and they were so intermittent
that, you know, on the day that we do our show every 14 days, on
the day that we do the show, people were trying to boost from
fountain booster grams, and they were failing. And those are just
the ones that who noticed it. So huge cacophony. And then we
started looking into it. Anyway, Oscar opened up a new channel to
us. So that's good. It's just all fragile. It's really
fragile. And it was it was nuts. And honestly, I don't think
noster is worth the trouble at this point. Because I have a
couple apps with noster now it's like, oh, really went offline. I
have a 1500 followers today have 273 You know, it's like, oh,
yes, that 300 You know, stuff doesn't come through it. The
it's not primetime yet. It really isn't. If it ever will be
in this use case of like a Twitter. I'm not so sure. You
know, listening to what Alex Gabe said was who by the ways?
He's 31 he's not he's, he's I thought he was younger. Why do
you think I'm a Zoomer? Aren't you 24/7 Oh, no, man, I was old
is your daughter? Oh, that makes me feel good. Thanks feel much
better.
I think the I don't really understand the use case either.
I mean not noster for that you implement it, I can envision it
certain things it'd be in good for but like that we have
Mastodon and activity pub and these open. I don't understand
why this is really a thing. I mean, I don't ask it for, ya
know, we're asking for a lot of hate. So I'm not really
interested in a lot of hate. And I mean, I'm on it, you know,
I'm, I'm along for the ride. I'm interested. I'm trying to get it
to figure it out. And the experiences vary all over the
map, you know, unless you're on damos, which I'm sure it has
their own relay. And, you know, but that's kind of a closest,
and if you're out on the edge, you screwed.
Well, Spencer said, if an HDLC gets stuck and expires, all the
channels along that route will close. There you go. It's an
Automatic Pro. Yeah,
that's right. That's right. That's exactly what what Graham
said, if it expires and everything along the route.
That's right. That's right.
So I mean, on the on the ordinals thing, though,
before I get to that one last bit, one last bit of data. I
asked Graham, is there a limitation? To how many key send
transactions you can do at one time? I say, is there a, is
there a limitation, the server limitation? Or is there an it
turns out, per lightning channel? There's a limitation of
428 in flight H TLCS. At a time. That's the protocol limit per
channel. It's unlikely we hit that unlikely we will hit that.
But it's I mean, it could it could easily happen from from a
channel like fountain.
If you have 428 Fountain users all sending a key send at the
same time. Yeah, it could happen. It could have for sure.
And that tells me that that tells me that for for the big
channels like like fountain or LNP? Or we should be we should
have multiple channels
channels. Exactly. Alright. Ordinis ordinals? Yeah, so
the ordered, like interest in general, I kind of want to know
your general thoughts. But it to me, to me the this idea of using
the side of using SegWit as sort of this freaky side chain thing
is I don't think it's a side chain thing. Well,
I mean, in quotes, I mean, it's definitely it's the way that as
that I read about it being described how it was working, it
used that term in quotes, but I mean, it is sort of a, you're
stuffing that transaction into a places is really, I mean, by by
protocol design, it could get you know, it's fine. But like
you end up with, so what are we supposed to do, we're supposed
to end up with blockchains that are gigantic, that we then go
back and purge all this stuff out of now.
That's the way I understand it. And I'm probably getting this
wrong, I thought it's more like new mastics where, you know, oh,
this is a very rare Satoshi it's the it's the 33rd Satoshi in the
block, or something like that. And you can mark that and then
you can, you can say, all right, or you can claim it or you can
tag it somehow you can put a URL in there, which of course, is
why that you have to pay for that the more data that goes in,
and then you have you know, just like the just like NF T's you
know, there's some other not on the blockchain thing that has a
frog picture or something that relates to that. And it's, you
know, I think it's just and I think it also seems to be
shaking out a little bit that you know, all of these shit
coins are literally shitting the bed they're you know, SEC is
after the everything's closing down it's you know, the just a
lot of things happening with with alternative blockchain
related coins. And it seems like no, oh, let's do this on on the
Bitcoin Blockchain, which, from what I understand taproot
actually enabled
it did that yeah, that's that's how understanding as well, but
you know, the, the way that it was the way that it was
described in found a pretty good article where they were just
goes straight through it. And I mean, it's not a white paper, it
was just a description, but I mean, it read to me as if, oh,
don't worry about this block size, these block size increases
because this is all just purgeable data anyway, for any
for people who are not interested in this specific
transaction in like, you can just you know, it's, you don't
you don't need to retain this because it's just part of this,
you know, extra space that this thing is taking advantage of.
You can purge that out of the actual the transaction room
mange in your in your database, we can purge out the other stuff
that's been jammed in there.
Yeah, that was my understanding of it because like you mark this
market UTX Oh, and then you have this this SegWit space that is
being stuffed with this
inscription kind of like our TLVs in a way.
I think I think so. Yeah. Much more Mia, but at the base layer
and a whole lot bigger. I don't know, I feel like we I feel like
Roy will have all the answers to this. Well, I
like seeing that really. It's like, okay, Bitcoin just goes,
Okay, whatever do that. And then it basically an attack. The way
I see it, I think it's an attack. And Bitcoin goes okay,
it'll cost you more. There you go. You paid now it sucked at
the minute This happened for us because closures as channels
didn't close because it wasn't enough predetermined fee. It's
expensive. It's expensive to open channels. But that I've
seen that even out quite a bit over over the last couple of
days. But wow, you know, holy crap. That's just it just it's
amazing to watch what's going on. We live in very interesting
times. Dave Jones?
Well, lots of things. I think it's worth saying this. I mean,
lots of things. The fragility that you see in a lot of these
things, there's a in like lightning and this sort of,
there's a lot of stuff, a lot of technology that is just that is
easily this fragile. Oh, yeah. But you just don't see it
because it's stuffed in a datacenter. Somewhere, like this
is all just playing out in public. But I mean, we, you
know, people in this at a sysadmin level deal with this
source of all the time where you where you're like, you're trying
to put a new technology to use and it's got some real funky
stuff with it that has to be worked out over time. I mean,
it's just that this looks, it just looks, it probably looks
more scary than it really is. On the outside. You know,
what the one thing I enjoy about the noster experience, though,
is that people have an of course, we know how this works.
People have substituted likes for zaps. So someone likes what
you wrote, then all of a sudden, you get 1000 SATs from them.
I've gotten 10,000 from people before. And that is kind of
really broken. Because I don't know, it's my setup, I guess. I
don't know who's sending it. It doesn't show up in Albi who sent
it, because that's that's the that's the address I use for
that. But it's kind of fun to see people parting with value in
that way. But at the same time, you know, they'll post donations
don't work here have had 1000 sites.
My my thinking on the Bitcoin space in the space of all this
from the beginning has been like anything that we can do. As a we
loosely just mean in general, anything that people can do to
make people part with with their coin and spend it instead of
just this sort of like, I don't know, toxic huddle thing where I
mean, yeah, I mean, sure, hold hold hold on to your assets. I'm
not saying that but I mean, like the the the problem with Bitcoin
for a long time with the culture of Bitcoin has been people are
not people don't spend the money. So you're sort of like
feeding Gresham's Law by by not doing anything. And so like, if
we can get people through booster grams, or, you know,
zaps or whatever, I mean, as long as as long as the thing
that we're doing is to get people to, to actually transact
with this stuff, and we can so that the mechanism of price
discovery, and it can form a market the problem with Bitcoin
is it's not financialized like there's there's a lot of things
that you wish you could do with Bitcoin, there's just no way to
do it. There's no financial instrument or facility to do
things with it. So like in order to make that happen, Now, step
one, like the first step you have to take is to get people
comfortable with actually spending it. And so I think that
any of that stuff, ultimately, maybe the protocol isn't, won't
work out or shake out, you know, the way people hoped. But as
long as we it's more of a mind game to me, it's about getting
people to actually be okay and get used to spending this stuff.
Well,
the way I see it, you're soaking in and maj because podcasting
2.0 I mean, what what's happening is people are
receiving, they're earning in Satoshis they're re spending it
on other podcasts. I use I've connected my my Alby wallet to
pod verse, which is great because I have oh man I might
have 2 million SATs in there now. And that's really just from
you know, bits and pieces coming in because that's that's a 1%
split on the shows I do and I've had it for a while but you know,
I use that the other day to to pay for some holy cow beef you
know, they're they're coming through town to go into Austin
and an always sends me an email she says Hey, we're coming
through anything you want know I ordered some breakfast sausages
and some chicken thighs which they have and I can't remember
all this I'm tallow thing, it was like 96 bucks. And, and she
just sends me she knows me. So she just sends me a QR code
through ibex, which still is not doing Kishen. And, you know,
it's just like copy, paste, boom, done, you know, and it
felt good. And it was from my earnings from earnings that I
that I got into into my wallet. And so it really is happening.
And I agree, whether you do the podcast in 2.0 is a great place
to transact was a great place for people to get comfortable
with it. When you buy it, you know, the hodler Sure they buy
it, however, they're buying it from an exchange. And I can
understand why you know, that culture is still there. But
things like podcasts in 2.0 things like the beef initiative
and and noster are changing that culture. And I think it's very
it's a very positive development.
A real market. A real currency has holders as savers and
spenders. Correct. You can't it can't just be one or the other.
I heard
her James Cridland is taking all the SATs. I've boosted the pod
news weekly review with and he's going to buy drinks for
everybody at Podcast Movement. No, which would be it would be
it would be better if he was paying for those drinks with
Satoshis.
That wouldn't be bad. I wonder if they if they have clothes, if
they have those Clover Point of sale terminals might that might
work.
Yeah, we can put you know. What is it to Cash App, strike,
strike, strike, strike, strike. There
you go. Yeah, they're doing that partnership thing. That would be
cool. And then he said you could go button right here, boom,
right in there, which I
was okay with bunnies like, and then we'll have to invite
British people. I'm like, No, I didn't donate for Brits. No,
that's no good.
We fought a war for that.
So before we bring in our our fellow board member for the
board meeting today who's been waiting in the wings very
patiently. And I have a heart out by the way. I got a heart
out. I love Hey, got a heart out at like, three o'clock. I have
an oral emergency procedure taking place today. You can you
can hear me slipping at all. I don't know if that's
a little bit. It's not it's not terrible. It happens.
When I get more tired. It's worse anyway. There's some it'll
only be sore for one or two days. Okay. That's like, I
don't. My first wife had some plastic surgery done several
times. And
like that phraseology. She has some plastic surgery done
several times
I paid for that Miss Potato Heads anyway. And it was always
the same. There'll be some bruising for a couple of days.
Lie. lie. Lie. Weeks. Yeah, exactly. So our guest will be in
a in a moment, our fellow board member, I just want him to react
respond to all of the negative Spotify articles that are that
have been out there. I think two big ones really, that the people
are talking about. And it's you know, it's about the bets not
paying off and all this stuff. So at first, I wanted to say
that, you know, when McKinsey came to called me to interview
me for the research they were doing for Spotify, podcast
strategy, I said, you cannot monetize the network. Now, I
don't know what McKinsey did. They probably didn't put that in
the final product. And I thought and this is my I mean, it took
me 10 years and $65 million to realize that it doesn't work.
And it's truly because of the decentralized nature thank thank
you thank God for RSS for thank you all to all the hosting
companies big and small alike who are still there. Most of
them still they're very impressive. This is the main
reason and I think the protection you and I built in
initially with as our as our mission was the the ability for
independent developers to develop on a database that that
didn't cost anything that they had influence on by being a part
of the of the community. And and for them being able to
participate in the money flow. Those two things were set up
from the get go specifically with value for value so that the
developers and other parties anyone who is doing something
can participate in the value block splits. So I do not think
it'll be very easy for Spotify. They have an activist investor
now in the company. This is this is some bullshit if you have a
company I ran a public company we took up my own company
public. When you if you get an activist investor, your life is
hell. The Board Meetings Suck. It's depending on the level of a
of investment they've made. And I think this was even a little
bit. So Spotify didn't really go. I mean, they they're a
public company, but they didn't do an IPO in a traditional way.
I think we talked about that, didn't we? Yeah, they did raise
billions of dollars. Now, they got all the early investors out
on their pay day, which was mainly record companies, etc.
And some banks, with hundreds of millions of dollars by going
public, so then they could monetize their, their their very
early investment. So they've raised money, but they didn't
raise money with the IPO. And so clearly, they have to raise some
new money. And now comes the really smart money. And that's
an activist investor. And the activist investor, I think that
that the original shareholders will dilute. They're not just
buying shares on the open market, I think they're buying
shares from existing holders inside, like inside shares.
Yeah. Or it could be a shares that were set aside for
employees a lot of a lot of different ways to do it. But
that's real money that they can convert into, into cash that
they can spend. And, and I just wanted to say, in this forum,
this is a tremendous opportunity for Spotify, because they can
blow the activist investors away by showing the way the showing
the world that the way to go, is not in the way that everyone
else is trying. But be completely open, join the open
system. Join if you know, build your app to be a better podcast
app. Let's start with that. It's an OK app. And you have a great
audience, you know, so it works. It's an okay app, that's like,
we were just on podcast.com. That's audible. All right. So
you know, they mesh it in with their audio books, but but
really invest in building a great app, and you can kick
everyone's ass at your level, Apple, Google or whatever
Google's doing. Amazon, anything else? By showing Oh, look, we
have we've enabled all this hundreds of 1000s of feeds that
have 2.0 named namespace, podcast namespace content, that
no one else is surfacing. You can do it, you could even do
lit, you have the infrastructure for that. If you really wanted
to, I would advise against it. But you could even reboot the
albatross known as anchor. And we'd be so happy to have you on
board. We really would, it would it would lift everybody, it
would lift all of podcasting. Now, I know that this will
probably fall on deaf ears. But I just wanted to say, this is
the opportunity. This is a tremendous opportunity for
Spotify. And if they if they if they just start to tamp down, I
just see, it's I went through this is a 10 year process of
shutting everything down. It's sad. The employees become sad,
you know, the stock code. It's just it's a sad Scituate sad,
sad situation. The Elton John came up. And, and and go open,
go open, go big. People will love you for it. And you will
create a better product and you can participate in massive flow.
And Joe Rogan will be a part of that too. I know he would love
to do it. Go open. Stop the insanity.
I can imagine that have obviously never been in that
position. But I can imagine having an active activist
investor is just like, you just wake up every morning
immediately and self defense mode and you're just trying to
keep your head above water trying to not make you know, and
then yeah, no, I agree. That's it's just a great, it's this
moment in in the market. Is it Todd, the other day said
something on one of his shows where he was like, you know,
hey, with the way that podcasting is now if you want to
have a podcast and get your show out there and have some have
some make some waves, now's a great time just because
everything's a little bit depressed. So it's probably the
same thing with Spotify. This is a such a tremendous like this
right now, with Google sort of bowing out of the podcasts,
space and all this kind of stuff. Like it is a great time
to go and just sort of like really shake that, because they
made all these investments. But the app didn't change very much.
So they on the app side of things. They never really, they
haven't pushed any real potential. Like they haven't
shaken any of that up. Like if they really changed the app and
embraced, like Buzz cast. That was hearing. Kevin Finn talking
about the person tag and how Apple has stopped taking
submissions for those images like host images used to you
would email it to them and they would put it in there and then
the host Which picture was show up? And I'd have all this
connectivity and that kind of things, totally proprietary
thing to them. And then, you know, now we have the person tag
this open system is, he's like, Well, you know, they're having
this big debate, well, you know, Apple would never do that,
because they want to control you know, everything, which I
disagree with, I think they would do it. But then, you know,
a company like Spotify, they could come in, and they could
immediately just boom, boom, boom, they just start throwing
features out left and right. And just
really remember that around the same time. Now, it was our buddy
over there at Apple who left?
Oh, yeah.
I've already forgotten his name. He's gone. Out of your life?
Yes, you did. You know, he said, No, we had a call. We talked
about on the show, we had a call scheduled. And he said, you want
to talk about what we're doing? I want to hear about, you know,
because he had even said, you know, maybe come talk to the
team about 2.0, which never materialized. I think COVID came
in there to just to MIT to be fair. And I said the same thing,
do this, this is how you will be legendary. We're going to do
we're going to do subscriptions. Okay, fine. And that's because
they have an internal mechanism that is called accounting. And
they have to show that all the work they're putting into it
results in something and it's okay, what they did, but you
know, now you're uploading stuff to Apple itself. So they're,
they're really creating their own little ecosystem, which is
fine. James, James Bugs, bugs, exactly. Sorry, James. Now,
what's even cooler about this, and we really got to bring our
guests and what's even cooler about this, is that when I look
at what wave Lake is doing, who now have over 100 songs placed
into the podcast index with value blocks, and I see what our
very own Steven B is doing. Music side project.com. Spotify
can this finally they can start, they can start making some money
and making musicians and artists and music owners, not the people
who've signed deals with ASCAP BMI, the music that is owned by
the creators can can start making some actual money, they
will be the darlings of the business. And there are now
hosting companies who are getting into this and dystopia,
I think is the one wave lake. And many others could basically
flip a switch and make this happen. And I'm looking at this
and it's cool. I am and there's a lot more not more to be done,
obviously. But I'm just looking at at what, there we go at
what's out there already. And it's you know, and there's music
that is playable, it's bootable. You have immediate feedback, all
of the 2.0 namespace, the podcast, namespace features can
be used for the your bring back the liner notes, people, I mean,
it's all kinds of stuff that can be done in phenomenal ways. It's
ready made for and Spotify could be. I mean, they would go from
pretty much hated by the music community. If I'm honest about
it, if they're honest about it really, to endeared. And you
know what, then instead of waking up and thinking, oh, what
does that activist investor doing? What backchannel calls am
I gonna get? Who are the Who else are they talking to? That's
on the board. I gotta call everybody keep my keep my eye on
who's doing what, who's saying what? Instead of that life? Wake
up to Glory.
Glory.
That's my plea. There you go. I've said what I have to say.
You pled
I have. Oh, all right. Let's bring in our guest. He is it
Well, funny enough. He worked at Spotify, but now he's out there
doing stuff for himself. One of the things is a steno stenosis.
And first we got to ask how he pronounced it, I would say 10
out out FM. Ladies and gentlemen, please give a big
podcasting 2.0 board. Welcome to Nathan gathright.
Hey there, Nathan.
How's it going? Yes. And it is steno. Like you're
somehow geographer you know, when I when I hear this last
name gathright. I expect to Britt somehow I'm not quite sure
why.
I'm texting born. A really? Yeah. Oh, I also lived in
Belgium for a couple years and then back to Texas and now I'm
in Chicago. Really? What
were you doing in in Belgium?
My dad was working out there when I was in high school and
just pick up the family moved over there for two years for my
last two years of high school and then oh, entering back to
the US for university.
Because that was kind of my story. My parents have had to
work in the in the Netherlands. They picked us up I was seven.
How old were you when you when you were in Belgium 16 to 18.
Okay, so how long have they been in the CIA? Are your parents so
you went to the International School?
Oh, yeah. We're where we Antwerp abroad. I was I was down in
Waterloo.
Oh, okay. Wow. So you were speaking more French than
anything I was. Yeah. Yeah. With the Walloons. We don't like
them.
Belgium, Belgium, Dutch, French. And was there a third an
alien? Mars? Yeah. So we have the Flemish and the Walloons,
and they ended that's like family feuds from two centuries
ago. I mean, they that's just crazy. They do not like each
other the Hatfields
and the McCoys, pretty much Europe.
Yeah, pretty much.
I was told if you're if you're in the, you know, the French
speaking part of the country, take a shot at speaking French,
even if you're gonna mess it up, for sure. In the Flemish
speaking part of the country just start with English,
they'll, you know, they'll start on a better foot with them
for exactly much safer now. Well, we're glad you came out
alive, my friend. So, the when were you when did you leave
Spotify?
Just with this recent round of layoffs. Oh, you
were asked to leave? I didn't realize that. Okay. Yeah. All
right. Well, I hope you would endorse my concept for them.
Yeah, I think I think I would love to see more open stuff
coming out of all the corners of the podcasting.
Yeah. And you've really embraced this with your project.
steno.fm. Tell us about it.
Yeah. So steno FM sort of was inspired by the, the projects
that sort of were coming, you know, before the namespace came
around like D script, starting with, you know, transcripts
based editing and other sort of transcript based search tools.
But obviously, the challenges of transcribing everybody else's
shows legally and monetarily, we're something that I knew was
never really going to be viable. So when the transcript tag came
around, I got real excited to revive some of my older, older
designs. I'm a product designer by trade. So I'm just thinking
about the way UX challenge
is great. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, that's great.
So the visual, you know, the visual challenge of like, I'd
want to make a better experience than just the equivalent of like
closed captions, I want to make it, you know, searchable,
readable, all of that. So, you know, for shows that provide a
well formatted, SRT file, VTT file, JSON file, whatever, I do
the best that I can to give it you know, a good formatting and
a good listening experience alongside that.
So this is really a listening. Podcast experience is what's
done. Oh, okay. All right. By the way, have you seen the new
Hindenburg Pro to sing? Because I let me just give you a quick
review. Holy crap. Why did you guys change the interface? Why
did you change the colors? You freak me out? There's no I hate
that. This is your review this review. And and there's one
other part of my review, why if I buy this? Do I have a timer
that says you have 10 hours of transcript time is doing the
processing on my machine. But yet somehow I'm I'm I'm, I have
to buy ours. I mean, it's very, it may not be that way. But that
was a real turnoff, just seeing that like what I mean, and we're
still processing no agenda.
So so I know, you've been building steno for a while,
obviously, but then. But it's it's sort of been live. I mean,
was this today was a sort of like a soft launch. I mean, what
would you call this?
Yeah. So today are basically just push a new homepage. And a
new trending page. trending page is actually only discoverable if
you like, hit the little menu on the top left hand corner, but
it's a op three powered page with trending episodes that have
a podcast and D have transcripts and have the OP three prefix. So
if you're supporting both of those things, hey, I'm trending
the trending page, I'm
trying mascon A bottle no agenda trending?
Am I trending? Or is it just, you know, way down the page? I'm
down the page. Oh, yeah, you're trending down there.
We're trending. Well, what
is so so when I was looking at this the other day, it says
Power BI op three, and I'm assuming that means that let me
ask you some questions. So I'm assuming that that means that op
three is where you're getting the sort of, kind of lack of a
better term popularity data or downloads. Yeah. So that's how
you get your your ranking type of thing.
Yeah, for lack made me made a little custom endpoint for me.
That's specifically you know, filtering down
to just what are you just
asking you shall receive,
okay, and then. So does that mean that you have to be only if
you're Show is not using the Opie three prefix you you won't
show up in steno,
you won't show up in the trending page. But from the
homepage, you can search literally any show. I'm my
search box pulls from both the podcast index API and the apple
API.
Okay, so in the in the, in the, in the main discovery page, it's
the popular shows with transcripts. How are you
determining if they're popular? What's your factors there?
This is just manual. This is in that case, that's just a
manually curated page for now. If Cena doesn't really have any
sort of usage, yeah.
Okay. Yeah. If books could kill podcast is great podcast. Yeah.
They, so you're, you're not using any other algorithm?
You're just kind of hand curating that list? Yeah. For
now. Okay, do you have any, like, are you going to change
that you're gonna make it some sort of automated thing?
Yeah, I've spent Oh, gets enough usage to pull from my own data,
then that I can switch to that. But for now, it was just looking
at top ranking charts and crawling feeds trying to see
what has transcript tags. I was talking with Dan Meisner, and he
said, You know, I think familiar cover art is would do a lot for
steno. So the more popular the show in the general public, the
more curious somebody will be more engaged, they will to poke
around the app and give it a shot. So try to find the most
recognizable shows I could and put it on this.
Here's something interesting, and it's probably a bug. It's a
bug. But I it may be a bug on my side, which is actually really
good. Because I think no, it's so I searched for curry in the
keeper, which is show I do have my wife, curry and the keeper.
And so you have three results. Your Apple podcast, podcast
index, what is RSS? It doesn't show up there. But what is RSS?
So if you just want to put in an RSS Oh, okay. Precisely. So
podcast index, it shows up. I click on podcasting. This is
creating the keeper teen and Adam curry. I click on it. And
it gives me no agenda. And I believe that is because for some
reason that we're still working on the podcast. ID is the same
in Korean the keeper as it is in no agenda. The good The Good,
The Good, the good. Yeah, the good. So this is searching based
on good, which is cool, actually.
Yeah. So all the show pages are good results. So send out Auto
Show slash guid will take you and at that point, I am then
hitting the index to look up that Gu ID and
oh, that's I mean, so I mean, I Nationally it's my it's my
problem. I know. But it's excellent. You're doing that.
I'm good. I love that. Yeah. Excellent. You little techno
man. You
know, I'm a, you know, I'm an A plus student, I tried to check
off as many of the boxes on the namespace that I did in short
order.
Well, this is this is great for a lot of reasons. But so to veer
off for a second, which is something we never do but to
veer for a second, like, So Todd had this comment the other day
on? On his show, where he said, See, I wrote a note and he says
he said he hoped that we haven't run out of ideas with
podcasting. 2.0 like goodness, like we're like, what comes next
sort of thing. And it's, I just want to, it's felt like a time
to do that to talk about that. Because I mean, there's tons of
ideas, I mean, like playlists, open subscriptions, channels,
bonus items, shared soundbites. Just looking down the list of
their sponsor, stage, guests, you know, has guests remote
item, but there's that's just those just like an initial
cursory glance. So but the thing I think they were talking about,
they felt like there's a general slowdown. That is on purpose. I
mean, that that is a thing. I've talked about this before. Like,
I don't run the namespace. I mean, it's not my project, to me
belongs to the community. But, but I do. And I'm conscious of
the fact that I do have the ability to sort of set the speed
of things in the tone, because I'm the one that mostly does the
pull request, you know, approvals and things like that.
And so, it was a very conscious decision on my part to slow down
the pace of things a little bit because we I mean, we outran
everybody with 100 different tags. And people had only
implemented like three. We just didn't it didn't make any sense
to just keep going and going and going. And the reason is because
and I'm bringing this back around us where the reason that
this is important, is because of things like Gu ID. So so we're
gonna do one of the things that we've got, we've got in the in
the pipe that's just been sitting there. Dormant is to
channels, podcasts channels. Podcast channels is going to
depend on GUID. This the same thing that the same mishmash we
ended up with with with, with lit lit depends on pod pain. So
the pod pain had to be had to be fully formed in you know before
lit could be fully formed. So there's a lot of things guid is
actually a really important piece of the overall puzzle
going forward. Because this idea that we need to take URLs are
impermanent, people move their shows all the time, it is not an
uncommon thing for this to happen. People move from host to
host, they go to self host, and they go back, blah, blah, blah,
they get bought. So the idea that you that your URL, is your
universal identifier really just doesn't work. So the idea of the
podcast Gu ID, that can be your your actual permanent ID and
your show, oh, in the show result, the good resolves to the
URL that is in something that's that is critical for a lot of
things that come downstream. So the fact that you're doing this
nation is phenomenal, beautiful, phenomenal.
I love that. And by the way, I don't know what this is. Have
you ever heard the ISO baht?
In the chat room? No,
no, literally someone's typing in? No, I'm an A plus student.
And that has a link to an mp3 And you
know, I'm a you know, I'm an A plus student, I tried to check
off as many
this is this is this is some space age stuff going on here.
People are some bot that can do ISOs in real time. All right,
I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm just I'm going nuts. So we got we got
goods being used. We got ISO bots, I feel like I'm back in
the stone age.
Your that? I think this may be the first I think this may be
the first app that uses do it as Yeah, its main main index.
Let's see who else is out there think? Yeah, maybe. I think I
think I know fountain URLs are just using the podcast index ID.
And a couple other people, pod, pod pod verse and curio caster
and fountain are all using the podcast index ID. But the GU IDs
sort of came probably after they got all that set up?
Well, it makes me think that I need to, then I need to sort of
prioritize the, you know, an easier way to resolve it, to
resolve these to read this an open open way, you know, rather
than forcing everybody to have a key. Because that would probably
be probably be a bit better. I mean, there's just some things
that probably make more sense being outside of the API. But
you're, you're, you're well qualified to do this. I mean,
like you, if people don't know, your background, you. You got
your part, you had an app that got bought by pods sites. Yeah,
right. Yeah, that's
how I ended up at Spotify was two acquisitions deep in selling
pod dot link to pod sites. And then pod sites was acquired by
Spotify. And I went along for the ride both of those times,
but pod dot Link was trying to sort of solve that problem of
everybody only really wanting to promote one link for their
podcasts not fill a tweet with, you know, five different apps.
And Pocket Casts was my app of choice, which had, you know,
around 1% market share, it was never going to be anybody's, it
was always gonna get cut out of the tweet if they're going to
link to even more than one podcast app. Right. So I was
just sort of tried to address that problem where people say,
find us wherever you download podcasts. And I, you know,
remember reading somebody saying that find us, wherever you
download podcasts is, you know, a good is a green flag. It's a
sign of that open ecosystem, but it does make it harder for the
podcaster to motivate a, you know, slightly curious listener
to go to the trouble of, you know, okay, how did they spell
that long show name or whatever. So product link was sort of
trying to be that Lincoln bio landing page solution that
automatically linked to Apple and Spotify and Google and
overcast and all of them, because I just looked at the
deterministic nature of how all of them created their URLs and
auto generated pages based on that. So the podcaster didn't
even have to go and set it up. A listener could go promote their
favorite show by finding the public page for it and sharing
it with friends.
Yeah, this, do you have any immediate? Like, what's your
immediate roadmap? So your stint of standards like law is
launched. Now? What do you do you have like a short term set
of features that you think are are sort of imminent, that
you're going to look at putting in?
Yeah, so right now, looking at your own sort of stats package.
We're at 24,000 podcasts with transcripts, nearly 600,000
episodes of the transcripts. That still is only 0.6% of all
podcasts in the index. So I really want to see what I can do
to advocate for more use of the transcript tag. And and you
know, richer use of the transcript tag, a number of the
hosts right now are really sort of sort of going to like a
lowest common denominator and supporting just txt transcripts.
I think on a recent episode, y'all just ran in within grade
into this with rss.com. There is no file upload, you can't upload
an SRT, you can only paste something in there. It's coming.
Yeah. Um, but you know, Captivate and transistor, some
of them are, you know, are not really thinking about
transcripts as like a multi format thing in the RSS feed.
They're sort of thinking about, well, how does it look on the
landing page for this episode on our own site? More than, you
know, what can I have, you know, making sure that it's a properly
formatted file for other apps to do something interesting with
I'm kind of digging the design choice you made here on the
transcripts, where the, although my transcript is not well
formatted just one big block of text. But as you play the
podcast, it's bopping down line by line highlighting it in a
kind of a yellowish orange. And then if you just scroll down,
you click on something the audio jumps to that. That's nice,
ma'am. That's rude. Yeah, and that's, that's exactly something
you could put on a on a podcast page.
Ya know, I would love to see a whole bunch of hosts copy this
and add it to their own, you know, all the other end websites
for their own podcasts. So give that experience to everybody
on what's the what's the end goal here, Nathan, you're
obviously cruising on your Spotify millions. So what are
you going to do with?
I don't know, I don't think I have delusions that it's going
to be a competitive podcast app, I haven't invested in making
user accounts or, you know, a mobile app or anything like
that. So we'll see. It's mostly trying to advocate for the
transcript, like further adoption of the transcript tag
and think about beyond the transcript tag, how can we, you
know, bring transcripts to more podcasts, even if that the
transcript tag is not available to them. So I've been having
discussions as people trying to figure out if shows that have
dynamic ad insertion can ever adopt transcripts in a
meaningful way. If their transcripts don't have
timestamps, then they might as well just link to it in the
description and not bother with the transcript tag is, you know,
there's no point in you know, integrating it into the player
if it's equivalent to opening up a web view anyway. If it does
have timestamps, then, you know, all their dynamic adding in
their dynamic add ins, injection tech gets in the way, because
then they don't ever, ever guarantee
except Buzzsprout Buzzsprout figured that out, they figured
out really
once you did their their Buzzsprout advocates for is the
podcast app, when it downloads the episode downloads the
transcript at that point, and not when the listener goes to
listen to it a second time. So if the listener goes to listen
to it two weeks later, they're dynamic. And they're dynamic
block has changed in some way upsetting the timestamps, the
transcript URL will have changed at that point. So they really
want you to just cache the transcript at time of download.
I tried out this podium page. Have you heard of this podium
pal? Yeah. Which I think is that they also have an app, I think,
and yeah, it seems like they're a company that is using
podcasting to display their incredible artificial
intelligence prowess. But I did, I did throw a podcast into it
into the system. And so I saw it came back. So it does
transcript, but it also does, chapters. It does, it takes it
makes an attempt. shownotes not bad.
I mean, not great, because I was very impressed with the show
notes feature. Yeah,
it's a starting point. And you know, it has timestamps, and I
mean, I would never use it. I mean, I love human intelligence.
So you know, our chapters like I love Dred Scott doing it, but it
was a but even for drab, it might, it might be a great way
to just get a like a little idea of okay, here, you know, here's
some things that I that I might look out for, because he
basically just listens in real time. And just, you know, taps
it and says, Okay, here's a chapter, here's a chapter,
here's a chapter. But it wasn't horrible.
Yeah, back to David's point about like, you know, feature
development. Whereas feature development going, I really want
to see the podcast events tag, enable more of a Wikipedia like
experience, where if you want to improve the transcript, if you
want to improve the chapters, or suggests something that
listeners have a way to communicate that back to the
podcaster, and that the host can mediate that if the host is
managing all the web hooks or something like that, and say,
like, Oh, hey, looks like you know, you left a typo. There's
podcasts I know that have their transcripts on GitHub, and I've
totally gone in and, you know, put down a pull request to fix
some things that I saw.
You are an enormous asset to podcasting 2.0 This is
fantastic. You Appreciate that. No. I mean, you are, you're just
developing stuff that you think could be better and can be
implemented and show and leading by example. I love it. Thank you
so much. It's really it's awesome that I don't use that
word lightly.
Do you have any sort of gut feeling as to what has been a
little? Just kind of baffled by how few podcast apps have put
transcripts into the app? They just it doesn't seem that I'm
not. I'm not gonna say the trivial, because it's, I mean,
it requires work. But it's also not. I mean, it's not like
groundbreaking ly difficult to track an SRT file. I mean, I'm
just I'm just a little I'm just a little interested in that. I
would. There's so many out there now, like you said to me,
600,000 episodes with, with transcripts, it feels the
content is there, I guess I would just see, I don't know, do
you? Do you have a feeling as to why people aren't doing more of
this? Because it's an accessibility thing. It just
makes so much sense.
I think, like in even just in launching it today, I saw people
like, oh, I checked out my favorite show, and it didn't
have transcripts. And there's not much I can say to them,
like, well, I don't need to run a whisper server and create a
bunch of, you know, copyright, dubious transcripts that the
podcaster didn't sign off on and, and approve. Is that what
you're asking me to do here? And they're like, I guess not. And
you're like, alright, so. So from the point of view of like
delivering a good user experience to your listeners, if
you're making a podcast app, you know, I think a lot of people
feel sort of in a bind that they can't promise transcripts for
everything. And so they're left saying like, well, it's kind of
enabled, if you listen to this subset of shows, and it's the
subset of shows that are not doing dynamic ad insertion. So
it's not the shows in the top of the apple charts. I was like
crawling apples charts to see how many they had, I think five
real five shows in Apple's top 250 have transcripts. And
there's actually probably like five, and there's five more that
have, they're using the transcript tag, but it basically
just pasted in their description into a text file. There's a
couple others that are using it dubiously.
That's to me, okay, so trick, dynamic ad insertion is the way
that it came down the pipe seems to be responsible for a lot of
the a lot of these sorts of things where, oh, we would want
we'd like to do it, but we can't figure out how to do it because
there's all this dynamic ad insertion. And to me, this just
seems like an eminently solvable problem. But if if we if we step
because we already talked to I don't know, if you were in on
that conversation, Nathan, I think he may have been, where,
you know, we sort of had this back and forth with, with some
various people about how to make these timestamps line up in a
good way. Because you, you submit, the way it seems to be
happening is these these, the audio gets submitted to sound
stack or some third party ad insertion provider. And then
there's, there's slots that are marked in the fee in the in the
mp3. And then those those slots go in to the mp3 from sound
stack, and then it gets delivered dynamically back when
you download it. To me, I mean, they're just that those, those
ad slots can come back in as markers in the ID three tag,
they can come back in, in a download in headers in the
download, where now he's like, Okay, well, I've got offsets.
Now, if I just have a list of a list of ad insertion points and
their lengths for the transcript, I can just go and I
can just know what those offsets or whatever. To me, just seems
like, this seems like a solvable problem. To me. That's, that's
not technically challenging. But for some reason, it's just like,
we're done with that dai works. I'm just, you know, I'm not
going back there. It's, it's annoying.
I felt like my first stab at this problem was looking at how
Marco Arment built forecast. And in short order mp3 chapters,
were in a lot more apps, including Apple podcasts. And
even I had Spurlock look at what was the total adoption of
transcripts or of chapters. And when he first looked at it, it
was something like you know, 1.6% or something like that. So
I was thinking okay, there's all the hosts that haven't adopted
support for the transcript tag yet what if I put the transcript
into the ID three tags so I started working on that there's
a ID three marker called synchronized lyrics and text
which is perfect for putting you know timestamps text for really
for like karaoke mode and music but perfectly suitable for
putting a whole train script inside an mp3 file, very small,
it's just text. It's not like the people who put a 3000 by
3000 image inside the mp3 file and was going down that route.
But enough podcast hosts mess with the ID three tags and throw
away anything they don't immediately see as irrelevant
that that idea sort of died on the vine. But I think something
that like Dred Scott is saying in the chat is it might be
helpful if transcripts served other purposes as well, such as
searchable content on a website to, I think really is
transcripts are a means to an end, you have a job to be done,
that is not read the transcript, but your job to be done is
recall a thing that I you know, heard on something that I
listened to this week, or, you know, bookmark something or make
something, you know, share something more easily. They're
always a means to an end. And they sort of need to be
ubiquitous before you can start building the features on top of
them
linking into that, something that I'm seeing a little bit
more of the machine learning AI people are showing up on my
doorstep and saying, Hey, can I get all your transcripts? And I
say, oh, yeah, here's this directory. And it's on an FTP
server, you can anything this dot SRT is a transcript. And
what I, I think that the what has not worked very
successfully, is apps using the search for the transcripts for
and the main reason it works is chicken in the egg as usual with
the stuff we're doing. So to me, it seems like someone can build
a service that searches transcripts without you know,
but does it with real machine learning type stuff. So you can
say I'm looking for something like this instead of, you know,
or I want to hear when curry said that. And it seems to me
that that would be an incentive. Because one of the thing about
podcasters, we know that they don't like spending money, but
they also don't want to be left out of something. So if Oh,
YouTube, I'm on YouTube, oh, it's on AOL, they're back with
with a floppy disk, I'm on the floppy disk. Doesn't matter. It
doesn't matter podcast want to be everywhere. And not to have
to have kind of what you're doing. Honestly, like, okay, you
don't have a transcript, here's how you can get a transcript one
bug, your host, your hosting company, too. You could hear
some commercial services, including otter or whatever, or
the even Hindenburg, where you can use what's the, the do it
yourself package, forget the name, whisper, you know, and
someone build an actual resource around that, I think that would
entice podcasters to do that, and not necessarily, because
it's, you know, the biggest problem of of the transcripts
for me in a way is I like getting a show out immediately.
And the transcript usually goes up two hours later, because it
just takes that long to transcribe, but having a
resource that could I mean, I think there's ways to make that
have money flowing, you know, or value for value blocks throw. So
that was a whole bunch of things that could be done. Even
advertising for all I care. If we had a place where that was
actually being done this everyone's everyone's got a man,
I'm looking at you comic strip blogger. I mean, there's people
who are doing so much ml AI LMNOP, this is a great
opportunity, and you already have quite a stack. And if
people are searching for topics, and the only thing that that can
show up is podcasts that have transcripts, I think that would
kick off people being interested in actually doing it.
Yeah, I definitely want to see the podcast events tag, enable
people to contribute back, like, Hey, I get random whisper
transcript, you know, as downloaded and, you know, here,
I'm sending it to your host, you can read over it and approve it.
So that the podcasters putting their stamp of approval on it
before it, you know, goes out to your listeners.
That's a cool idea. Because then you have people that can begin
it's almost like when you put somebody Yeah, but but in an
automated way. Like you don't even have to ask permission. You
just you don't you just do it and then send an event just
like, hey, I did a transcript
that's like this. Drag has been you know, he's on his own dime.
He's like, Oh, I'm going back every single mo facts with Adam
curry episode. I'm running through a transcript. Yeah,
yeah. Yeah. You're right, that needs to be an automated
fashion. So it just kind of flows back there. That what is
it? What does that tag called? deep bench tag. Yeah, that spits
back my system somehow knows to reattach it or whatever click
it's now attached to that podcast. This is these are
really good ideas. Hello, Spotify.
It just it just feels like I think people don't maybe don't
appreciate how difficult it is to do good search on anything on
debt on data like this. So what I mean is like Google, you say,
Well, Google indexes the entire web. Yeah. But they have, they
have a clear signal, the PageRank would signal that link
based on incoming links. That was a clear signal, that of
quality, that this this thing rises to the top of the stack.
As you have incoming links, there's no, there's nothing like
that in podcasting. You can't say, Okay, this episode is
great, because there's so many, what attached to it, the best
you can do is say, Well, there's a whole bunch of downloads,
well, guess what, most people don't have access to that. The
podcaster themselves have access to it. And that's it, that
nobody else knows that. So you're left within independent,
each independent app knows how many downloads are in are
happening for each one of those shows on their platform,
sometimes, like in the, in the circumstance of cast ematic.
Franco doesn't know because that's all happening on device.
So you just have a whole lot of unknowns within within part. So
what you're left with really as like I'm looking through steno.
And I'm going through these transcripts, you're left with
just massive amounts of blob, just huge amount. And I'm
talking about this from from a search ability standpoint, but
you just huge, huge, massive event of just words. So you
really have to have something like an A AI type approach in
order to even make anything meaningful out of all of this
stuff. Because this would you end up I mean, if you're like
the Brookings Institution, you want to be the Hans Blix of
podcasting, then you have to really like, you know, you'd
have to do something like this. Because otherwise you can't,
you're not going to get a Google search of podcasts. It's just
never this is this is the problem with discoverability.
The problem that, you know, people want better
discoverability and podcasts in a hand and it's never, it's
never gonna be that,
you know, here's an opportunity I'm gonna reach out to SRIDHAR
RAMASWAMY. He's the he was the CEO. He ran Google search
product. And he started Neva and e va.com, which is search engine
without ads that I've been using for years, a couple of years
now. And the EO they the minute chat GPT became a thing they
already had, you know, the same parlor trick on their homepage
actually doing what chat GPT does, like, Oh, you want that
your hold our beer? Here you go. They just implemented it. These
are the guys that, you know, that would be perfect for this.
But why wouldn't they have a tab that says Search podcasts, they
could do all of this.
You're you're not gonna get a, you're not gonna get a ranking
that's ever real in a way of sort of like popularity, the
best you can do is find you can mined the data for a specific
piece of information, like, I want podcasts episodes about a
topic, but you can't you can't pair that with any sort of
independent thing that says, Okay, now. Now out of all these
results, this is quote unquote, the best one is just unless I'm
missing something, I don't see any way
you need that feedback loop from Okay, which one's got clicked
on? Yeah, that's how you get back around to that PageRank
thing. So this is actually, you know, this is the job to be done
that Dave, you've repeatedly failed to articulate when
pattern was snow. Why? Why you want data from all the different
perhaps why you want popularity? It's really as weights for
things like search. Yeah, than it is. You heard me?
Yes, yes. Somebody heard me. Yes. You're exactly right. Like,
that's yes. Thank you, Nathan. I feel so validated and heard
right now.
Yeah. Another feature idea that I think can be built on
transcripts is if you are going to have some sort of like ask me
anything a portion of a show. If you're a longtime listener, and
you hear somebody asked a question that's been like, I
know, they've answered this before, it would have been great
in the Ask Me Anything form in the same way that like, if
you're gonna go submit a new post on StackOverflow it's like,
oh, by the way, this has already been asked like, you're writing
up a question right now that you think is novel, but I promise
you we've actually already addressed this and you can get
the answer immediately instead of waiting for the next episode,
and hope that they pick your question. So using transcripts
to enable search just have a specific show or if you just
want to search things I've listened to before I think that
is my personal like most interesting use that I want to
see built and maybe I have to do it myself but you know, I don't
like limit restrict my search to things you know, I have listened
to in this app because I'm trying to recall some thing
right now I'm not trying to like, oh, what's the world? You
know, I'm curious about some topic. And I want to know, I'm
just gonna go into the search box and hope that I find a host
that knows what they're talking about.
That's yeah, that's an interesting concept sort of like
email at that point. It's like, well, I read this email, but I
know it's in there somewhere. But I don't I don't know which
folder it's in. Oh, sounds
a lot like the freedom controller.
It does. I was trying to explain to Alex something about how I
use the framework early the other day, and I was like, yeah,
well do it. Like, I like this. And I'm like, Screw it. It's not
gonna make any sense to anybody. Yeah.
Yeah. I also want to see booster grams alongside the transcript
at the point when you'd like using the timestamp element, not
just you know, nobody is really using the timestamp element in
an interesting way.
Well, the stat and I think that's guys are the stats
package. Just use it, you get a good, nice timeline. And I do
look at I do look at that. Yeah.
But when, when the activity pub, like boost crossover thing that
Dave's working on is out there, I want to you know, display that
to listeners so that they can see you know, where a boost is
showing up along with the episode maybe, you know, in a
Google Docs comment style experience, where you can spark
a whole conversation thread off of, you know, an initial booster
gram, something like that. So I think there's plenty of new
features to build in the space couldn't
you? Couldn't you take a 1% could not add you as a split
into Yeah, or episode in the new see, because then you'd get the
boost. And you would see the timestamp and you just bid and
you'd be able to mark mark it
my favorite way of adding services to podcasts. Just
do that just as well. You will you start taking
splits. I've designed my own booster Graham interface. And
we'll see. We'll see when I will see where that gets right now
I'm, I'm I got more time on my hands to work on steno for now.
We'll see.
By the way day, we need to thank some people I think for the
podcast index.org website, which was recently upgraded with
Yes, and Nathan is part of that ball.
So explain explain what we've done here because it's
beautiful. Alright,
play along at home. Everybody got a podcast? index.org and
Nathan will tell you what happened.
Yeah, so you we added cross app comments. I wrote down the
pronunciation of gear gillerman. Yamo. I don't know at the end of
the name. Yeah.
Go there. ngModel. Augustine. The front pod station puts it on
dude,
pod Dev. He
did the vast majority of the work and I just contributed some
design help and some front end code. But we made a view only
cross app comments experience on the podcast index website. So if
you go to podcasting 2.0 scroll down, you know, find an episode
and hit show comments. We use John Spurlock's thread cap
library to pull in all the stuff attached to the root post on
this episode.
Now, how do I how do I get to how do we get to actually
responding from
nerves? Never. That's never on the line? Well, that's down the
line that that's that's gotta because, yeah, that's when you
do. I mean, the thing we came up with recently is Oh, off, you
know, off to a mastodon server, and then, but that, I mean,
that's like step two, you know, to me, the so this sparked a lot
of, you know, predictable debate about content moderation. I
guess I want to just just comment on that for a second.
This to me the most important thing about this whole page and
the way this is done, and kudos to to you or gillerman that that
did this is the show Comments button. The comments don't show
unless you go and ask for them. To me, that's critical. Because
otherwise you're you're just at the mercy of the of the moms is
also how YouTube does it. You have to click to get comments.
Yeah, and I think that's, I think that's critically
important because it takes 90% of the of the worry of I don't
want this stuff. I don't want X thing X and comment associated
with my content. You know, that when you have hide it behind a
user action, the same way that Mastodon does with a no content
warning that you're right. Okay, you were warned. You and you did
it anyway. So I mean, you're you're kind of you kind of know,
it, it, it sort of in a real way puts the expectation of, of
policing the user's eyeballs onto the user and not on to To
the Creator. I don't know, maybe maybe I just feel like it's
important is an important piece of the discussion. Because I
don't know that wherever, what, what people started talking
about, you know, or is, you know, I don't want one comment
out of all this stuff to not show up if it was like it had
something, profanity in it or something like that. I just
don't, that's just not the way that's not the way that Mastodon
or activity Pub is just not like that, you'll never you will
never have that level of control. There may be there may
be this, excuse me, let me rephrase that. It may be that,
for reasons of that are peculiar to Mastodon or certain
activitypub implementations, that when you retrieve a thread
of comments, like Nathan said, when, when the when thread cap
asks for the root post, and all the posts that comes with it, it
it might be that just by a vagary of the way that Mastodon
does things, that you that sometimes you could get rid of
one of those comments with hiding it or muting or something
like that. I don't know. We I don't think we know for sure
yet. It but it might be that. But that's a different thing.
That should not set the expectation that that's always
possible across all of activity, public permutations. Because I
guarantee you, I don't think that's part of the spec. And I
guarantee you that there are going to be implementations of
activity pub, that do not honor that sort of thing. They're just
going to show you everything that they know about whether
it's been deleted, or any of that is that you're feeling as
well, Nathan,
I think the podcaster is opting in to the set of moderation
controls they want by what route posts, they put in the URL. So
if they want to host their own situation, host their own
activity pub server, where they have full control over what
replays are visible, they can, you know, go that far. And if
they want to just put a link to a podcast index, not social
thing, they're leaving it up to you, all right. So they are
choosing their own moderation controls. Based on you know, at
that point when they decide the route post, and that's the,
that's the moment when they have control to decide how much
moderation they want. Anything like after that point is, you
know, if you're trying to, you know, ask other people's service
to be managed, the way you want it to be managed than just run
your own service. And, you know, different people can provide
activity, both servers that suit your own tastes for moderation.
Yeah, I think that's the best you can hope for. I just think
it's a different. It's a different world and you can't,
this new world of Mastodon where everybody left, everybody left
the centralized thing of Twitter and they hated it. They had you
they just absolutely despised it. But and it had all the
moderate it had all the moderation tools there. But it
but they hated it. And they went to Mastodon and the, the
mastodon universe is such that if somebody comments on your
post, and their server is not blocked, you're gonna see it,
you're just gonna see it, that's just the way that it goes. And
so I mean, if really, it's just, I hate this is the bomb, you
know, we talked about, you know, to get to nuclear subs, you had
to go through the you had to blow shit up. But this is the
bomb Gehrman Gehrman. And Nathan, they invented the bomb.
Now. Now we have to, you know, down the line, step two, step
three, where as we're going down the line, and then then we get
to nuclear subs and you know, in the in the stuff that actually
is useful for society. But this stuff right here, this is just
step this is step one, and I don't know that. I don't know
that we're at the point yet, where control is the proper
discussion, maybe that's going
well, but this is very typical in podcasting land, where, since
we didn't have both sides of the equation with hosts and apps,
people just throw up roadblocks all the time on Slack channels,
and then nothing got anywhere. And so now we have running with
scissors. That's how you get stuff done.
Yeah, yeah, no, I think I mean, I think the this additional
thing, there's a way there's just not a way at this point in
time to be sure that any specific sort of moderation is
gonna happen. I think that I think that just that idea needs
to be left no off the table for the time being, you know, down
the road, we'll see. But I mean, as far as interest, just
generally speaking, the website is beautiful. I mean, Dark mode.
We know with dark mode. I mean, like, it's fantastic. The dark
mode is fantastic. The comments are fantastic. I think somebody
was I think Guillermo was saying that he's also working on, on
performance, like to get the comments to load a little bit
faster, because there is a delay there.
Or maybe give me a little spinning wheel. Oh, yes. A
little a little a
little spinny. Yeah, yeah, that's already that's, that's a
UI decision. That's next Nathan Lucia. Talk to him about that.
Shall we? Yeah, he
has a little spinner.
Shall we thank a couple people. I'm sorry to say I just have a
hard doubt coming up.
You're not sorry to say that you like saying the MO Horta.
I love saying it. I hate people who say that I'm kind of hard
out before the meeting. I'm sorry, I have a hard out. Well,
why don't you go fuck yourself that you don't have the meeting
with me. So, so it's nice. I'm happy to say it once. By the way
want to make note that we now have 12,044 feeds with value
blocks in the index is cranking like at at almost eight 910 x
what it used to do, we'd have a couple a day now we're talking
3040 a day. And I'm not exactly sure why. Other than we just
rock, but I'm not sure. It's not. There's no other
explanation that we're seeing it in transactions on the index as
well. It's it's up. We're trending. We're trending up.
It's it's very exciting.
Very exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When thanks me, was that. That's
it. We were gonna thank some people.
Oh, yeah. Okay, let me let me get the booster grams that have
come in so far, because people are always boosting live. We
have Todd Cochran. Now who was boosted multiple times 25,000
isaps. Here this challenge improved. And he would know, the
challenge of programmatic ads is that the ad fill rate is about
80% and changes by the second so the transcript offset signal
would be from Download to download and needs to be in the
download metadata to signal the offset. We've been working with
our ad delivery partner to have a solution. I have a solution.
Cool. I'm glad because right on it. Yeah. Oh, you can use my
solution. Just get rid of it. Like Sockeye the horse 1000 SATs
Thank you, Eric P P. 33,333. There's Todd Cochran again
100,000 Satoshis Bala
Sakala 20 is Blaze on the Impala
I've been adding liquidity to my personal lightning node ugh such
a pain in the ass with channels so much fun lol but thank
goodness Albion pod verse fountain etc making this easy go
podcasting. You know, I heard Todd talking about that. Yeah,
I'm doing stuff with liquidity. I'm like no, stay away. Don't do
it. Stop it. Stop Todd stop. It's a hole. You do not want to
go down there you don't I'm just saying I love brother. I love
it let's there Spencer. Just get on with such bizarre let him do
a ring of fire with you and you'll be done.
Ring of Fire 6666 from blueberry mainstream conspiracy podcast
and bitching about suppression on Spotify go together like
peanut butter and spoiled Mayo for the love of all good things
and natural make it stop? I have no idea what he's talking about.
I had no idea either.
Sir lurks a lot. With a super leaps will 13,370 Lalala lit
boost Thank you very much. Steven Be a satchel Richards
11,111 Shameless plug music side project.com is now live listen
to and boost your favorite RSS music feeds. I'm also working on
an MSP studio, MSP Microsoft Project managed service provider
I don't know, which will be a simplified version of sovereign
feeds. Oh, oh, a music service provider studio. I missed it.
What is MSP? What does MSP stand for? Which will be a simplified
version of sovereign feeds which I use focused on making a music
feed Oh decentralized music for the win. No music side projects
studio da MSD Yeah. Oh. We got a drip Scott. There were the
333,333 we thanked him for that. Blueberry was in early listening
to some of the we were playing we always start off when we when
we hit the lip about 1015 minutes before we before we
start with 100 Personal retro sing along and he was boosting
along a boost along to Shakira and he boosted oh baby when you
boost like that nice 13,369
Blueberry here's secure fan.
Beautiful. Let me see. Pfeiffer 3800 breezes stubbornly refusing
to refill my curio caster wallet boosting remaining balance go
podcasting Dobby does who I heard on he's our says blue.com
Right you A very interesting guy doing is starting off from
scratch with a hosting company all to point out love at 25,000
SATs Thank you. And there's Martin Linda's code with a nice
row of ducks. 22,222 He says he says I wonder if Apple podcasts
app is searchable for the ducks in the row. I doubt it. I've
added chapters with my images that my co host Karina Rubinius
has created in Canva by use visit RFM studio to add the
images could it be that captivate is not supporting
chapters yet? I don't know. I don't know. And then I think SLC
no that's for no agenda. I think that's it. The rest would be on
your output of the booster grams Dave.
Oh, yes, we have no PayPals there's no weekly session
complete. It's done.
Overnight. Hold on here to here it is me now. Yeah. Nice. I like
it.
Real Estate's from Joel wo 1111. No Nope through fountain and we
get a Hardhead one a 101 binary boost through curio caster note
from hard hat Thank you hard hat 438 SATs for Sir Michael's low
bid at those good No. Hey Dave, would you please approve my pull
request Okay, thanks bye. Yes, I'm just always
that's always a weird thing for guys to say to each other just
approve of it. Copy 1980 40,000 sets through fountain This is
100%
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
No what I think you mean RP is painstakingly
or I say five by five is my new 105 by five five by five
in the pipe in the Satoshi stream 5552 through fountain it
says 25 years of XML and he has a link to the RFC for a
nice happy birthday. XML was right yes,
Satoshi Strange is really fired up about XML chat F 1000 SATs
through pod verse he says test boost from the Orion browser on
iOS using pod verse.fm and the lb extension.
Wow. Oh, that's right. You can run you can run the extensions
in the Orion browser. That's right.
Chad F is doing the is doing the AES the official bookkeeper now
off the bucket of I guessing 2.0. And going back and doing
every accounting on every single episode. I'm
not sure exactly what the point is. But it's interesting. It
shows the value for value works. That's for sure.
Yeah, when we will. When you when you go when you're done,
send it to us or send it to CPA for taxes.
Yeah, I want to can you do it in QuickBooks,
QuickBooks? korkin send us 10,000 sets through Felty says
thanks, guys. Keep up the awesome work. wishing there was
an easy way to get normally listeners converted to vie for V
and BTC. But it seems they still want to default to Pay Pal and
cookbooks. Hard to break through the years of bad education and
government money propaganda.
It is indeed very difficult. But if you keep at it, and you don't
give the easy way out, which created the keeper has done
which really been very hard. Most people just turns out love
to just click on the link when you tweet it out. I just
listened to the browser. So we've actively actively said
please do this, get the get the we promote a different value for
value app each time. And the only the ones that do refills in
the app. It's hard is very hard to start with any listener group
who are not already clued in, but it's well worth it because
people when it comes through when you read their booster
gram, everyone's kind of jazzed it's a good feeling. It's worth
it's worth hanging in there.
Dave Jackson 10,000 SAS Hall of Famer do fountain net. I
remember Lilian acts on the ball. Love them. Play. Cool
played the day that I met you for the keeper. You'll thank me
later.
I did. I did. And you know what, Dave? Thank you. You get a hard
out. Very hard out on that one.
Go prove your pull request.
You want to go into one step too far.
And we have had the horse had did it to me. It's his fault.
Mere Mortals podcast 8008. Boot donation through fountain he
says, Oh, I know how to explain the split. Simply imagine there
are eight and a half people and we want to evenly split the SATs
according to the ratio of their good mic technique divided by
the square root of their filler words. If we assume an
exponential Keynesian model, there's infinite incoming step
sets. Knowing this each person will receive a percentage that
adds up to 100 Wait, what? Okay, wow, yeah, baby. It's 37 ad from
anonymous to get automatic. No, nope. I think give
notice to cast ematic getting a little more action lately.
I have yeah yeah it's come it's coming up if people haven't
tried if you're on an iPhone you haven't tried cast Matic if you
haven't tried to send a booster away it's I would recommend it
like go do a boosted cast ematic and look at the way Franco if
there's a problem and one of the splits Fails of the screen that
comes up it's really cool I mean you can see exactly what's going
on like it's He's done a lot. He just keeps doing a lot of work
there and he just never He never tells anybody what he's doing it
just keeps getting better silently under the covers like
all of a sudden I just noticed new things pop up all the time
so cool. Good app. Yeah. I'm robot 8008 The Fountain he says
shout out craps crippled apps go podcast crap.
Got about that.
SLC 7777 striper boost through fountain he says casting off the
God of Mammon with podcasting turbo boost Oh yeah. Boost some
quack 111 says I love this show. Do my low set boost also cost
you money will save and boost bigger if rare and so okay.
Just boost bigger all the time. Boost boost boost
almost
always the answer? Yeah. Mere Mortals podcast row does 2222
through fat and he says some quack asked an important
question. But it was beneath the cut off. So I just wanted to
make sure it got read. To quote. Love this show. Demopolis Okay,
I will save up and boost bigger. Wait, what? This must be on the
quote. This must be on the comments on fountain. That must
be where this stuff is happening. Oh, okay. That went
through me for a loop. Oh, yes. Comment? Yeah. Okay. See? Oh,
okay. So that was his way of boosting his comments so that it
would come through and I would read it. Oh, interesting. Okay.
5000 SATs there from anonymous on pod version of note 25,000
SATs from Borlaug through pod verse and he says just wanted to
send my gratitude completely enninful For what the two of you
are doing well. Thank you Borla appreciate it. Sir Brian of
London 169,000 SATs index website
Wow.
Sakala 20 is Blaze only Impala.
Whilst my new recurring donation system via hive is in
development, I'll send my ketchup boost this way via the
POS. Mr. Nice IV sir, thank you, Brian. appreciate them recognize
the same Oscar Mary 30 3015 Howdy David Adam Oscar busco on
behalf of Mr. BlogHer as a test to make sure all the splits are
green.
He is our canary in the coal mine doesn't work happy app not
working.
Fe happy he's like his comment that Yoda was wrong there is try
tone wrecker one on one on one the binary boost the pod verse
he says something new to test music side project.com thank you
Steven V. Always the king of the yes
yes, Doc king of the iKOU
record one Oh Big Dig satchel Richards 11 111 through fountain
he says wave lake.com helps nearly 100 artists sharing their
music.
They have 100 100 artists on the put I've been put into the
index. Is that how I interpret that?
I don't know. I don't know. Oh, see? Or say well, let's come
back to that later. Let's see them. 22 to 22 they're found he
says I wonder if Apple podcasts app is searching for the ducks
in the row you already read that is did you already read that?
That came in just a second ago?
Yes. Yes. We've been through that one Well, where's comments
or Blogger? Was he the was that the delimiter? No.
Did you read Dobby? Das is 25 though yes I do. Okay, all
right. So I hit the bottom bottom of your rock by hit
bottom comic strip blogger 30 3015 through fountain and he
says Adam and Dave I priests a top the black box Mystery School
of the podcast pyramid. Please accepted this offering of sets
as our initiation fee is tectonic plates of ingenuity
continue to shift. We beseech the boardrooms, attendees to
reconcile the colliding of manufactured sentience and free
speech by downloading the AI doc cooking podcast. Read by TV show
deviser Gregory Forman yo CSB second try
thank you so USB and we had a late comer hear from someone
named Hal was write a short row of of sticks 1111 I saw the live
tag on pod bursts felt compelled to boost see how that works.
Yet, just the life of them hit just the life tag at dopamine
hit exactly. All right, we have any monthlies to account
for we do we get to your killer at $5 Chris Cowan $5 Jeffrey
Rutherford $5 Jeremy Kavanaugh $10 Derek J. Vickery. $21 Paul
Saltzman 2222 Daymond Cassie Jack $15 David Norman, our buddy
hypercare $25 Jeremy gerdts $5 Timothy Hudgins my buddy $25.
And David would find $3 in them.
Thank you all very much. This podcast as a long with the
entire podcast and 2.0 Podcast. index.org project is value for
value, no creepy corporate money, no VCs, no advertising,
just the people who participate in the project. And if you're
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welcome to contribute. Go to podcasts. index.org go down to
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give one or give all of them a try. It's well worth it and just
remember to boost boost boost often boost hard boost deep
boost. just made that up.
So but coming up.
Really. I gotta we need to get one of those nut jobs from the
chat room on the show in the boardroom Dave. Whoever's doing
this, whoever is doing all these. We've got booths, bots, I
saw bots. I mean, there's that there's something called gal gal
gal
and serious gal, blueberry.
Whoever it is we didn't go to we need to bring them in. They
probably use blueberry. All right. What
else? I don't know. You got to heart out and I got a hard doc
coming up.
Hey, by the way, we you we reused a title from no agenda.
We did. Yeah, lawful but awful is like Episode 14, something
you already used with lawful but awful we need. We need a search.
We need a title search. So we don't do we don't?
Oh, my goodness. Well, that is yeah, that's on me. I usually
I'm pretty good catching that stuff. Got it. We've even used
titles on no agenda that we've used before on no agenda. Again,
for the second time, I mean, 50 130 gets a little fuzzy,
that's a little fuzzy. I just want to congratulate Zion, Zion,
who launched something. And they initially were trying to, I
think that they they took the whole of sphinx was that thing
called, again, the Sphinx relay. I took the open source code and
turn it into whatever it is, they rebranded as web five app,
and now they got $6 million. So congratulations,
Nathan, you should do that. Just read Web.
Web five man web five app. It's a web five experience.
You've got so much blank space at the top of steno that if you
can easily fit the words web five up there.
I agree. Web five. But hey, maybe that's our title web five.
What do you say? Yeah. Oh,
yeah. There you go website. And you get $6 million.
I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna nuke the titles. Either we're
trending, which I like or web five. Which What do you want?
Which one do we choose here? Yeah, we're trending is pretty
good to actually,
that's actually pretty good. Because we are trending on. I
mean, that's literally true. There's not a lot.
And he finally figured out how to explain why you wanted
popularity stuff. So
that's true. Yes. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
And one thing I wanted to throw out there, which I thought was
interesting, this podcast, one is spinning out of what is it?
Radio One on one, live, one live live. But what did what they're
doing and I just, I just want to make sure that I'm not the only
one smelling this. So here's the release podcast. One is
partnering with vs game to offer listeners a way to engage with
the network's podcast host through gamification. Many games
have been launched on the platform that enable listeners
to watch and answer prediction and opinion based questions to
win rewards. Does this sound like one of those scams where
people are playing a game and it plays a little bit of the
podcast?
I think it's more like Google opinion rewards plus podcast
listening.
What does that have? No.
Have You Ever Have you ever heard of Google opinion rewards?
It's basically like, Hey, would you like to take a survey? And
we'll give you a little bit of Google Play credit?
Ah, all right.
That's so when I heard when I heard their numbers. They were
like, man, podcast. One had a great revenue this quarter. And
it's like, well, yeah, they're about to IPO.
Like, but they had like $3 million or something. Yeah.
But they're literally about to IPO as a separate company. Of
course, they're gonna say that they had a bunch of money
for their total revenue, annual revenue if I if I didn't
misunderstand was $12 million. That's not I mean, and that's
not profit, that's revenue they expect. I've read some of their
documents. They don't expect to be profitable for quite a while.
$12 million, and revs Come on
people. Where's all the dollars? You could get half of that with
web five?
I think John Spurlock has all the billion dollars in
podcasting. I don't know if someone has it.
It's only sold in John's basement.
Exactly. Oh, man. Hey, Nathan. Thank you so much, man. This is
great. You're a great board member to have on they have a
lot of a lot of cool stuff thank you for your contributions very
impressed. Me and it's and you know, I don't want to disparage
anybody was really it's really are a huge benefit to us. To the
to the community to the community. It's fantastic really
love having here
and thanks for bringing everybody Starbucks to the
border. And that was that was
really appreciate that next time. I'd like the the croissant
though. I'm one of those.
Sounds it cheese Danish, please. All right. Thank
you very much chat room for being with us. Thank you to all
the boosters, Nathan. Thank you. The place to be is steno.fm.
Yep. And and I put the your blog posts, which I think you posted.
Was that Trump today? The blog post? Yeah. Put that in the show
notes. So we're gonna take a look at that. And if you
wouldn't mind emailing me as soon as you can. A wallet to
lightning wallet or do you ever get Alby or something that
leads in G apt get? Get? I'll be out. Thank
you. That helps a lot when we put that right. And by the way,
people can boost him directly now. Nathan G. That's quite
handy. Dave. We need Adam had podcasts index.org and David
podcasts index.org.
That can make that happen. Really? Yes. Oh, that's
exciting.
That's the keys end result. All right. Well,
let's do it. I love it to just walk around so you'd like me out
of my
index? No, thanks to the Ellen URL, guys, but we just did it.
Exactly faster. All right. That's it. Everyone. Have a
great weekend. Dave. I love you, brother. Nathan, thank you so
much. We'll see you next Friday for the board meeting of
podcasting 2.0.
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