Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 March 4 2023 Episode 124 on D flat
formable hello everybody welcome to a delayed board meeting of
podcasting 2.0 preserving, protecting and extending the
open independent podcasting ecosystem that's what we're all
about. And we talk about it once a week with everybody in the
board meeting everything happening at podcast index.org
Of course the podcast namespace and everything at podcast index
dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the tech show
country and Alabama. The man who fills up your generator say
hello to my friend on the other end. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr.
Dave Jones.
Unknown: Adam Clark curry. Yes.
Dave Jones: Don't for one day. Party.
Adam Curry: Why are you being stern with me? You threw out an
Adam Clark curry that triggered me right away.
Dave Jones: Yeah, no, I knew it would.
Adam Curry: David Ashley Jones.
Dave Jones: Yes. There's only one I only have one rule and
then no part no part long gone.
Adam Curry: But we cleaned up. There was only Dame DeLoreans
panties apparently around the flagpole. Everything else was
clean. We didn't do anything. Anything bad. I'm so sorry.
Dave Jones: It was much entertaining.
Adam Curry: Oh, well. You heard it while you're at the office
listening.
Dave Jones: I got a bootleg. I got somebody sent me a bootleg.
Okay, I
Adam Curry: purposely did not record because I didn't want any
evidence that we were breaking the law not only breaking the
law by playing two and a half hours of licensed music on the
stream, but also taking money for it which which is, I think a
super violation.
Dave Jones: There there is there is a bootleg if you know the
right guy down on Fifth Avenue, behind the corner.
Adam Curry: Canal Street is what you're talking about Canal
Street.
Dave Jones: With enough sets you can get a you can get a bootleg
for those
Adam Curry: who are wondering what we're talking about.
Yesterday, we were ready to go for our regular regularly
scheduled board meeting time. And well there were two things
that happen actually, I now the hill country here in Texas had
had a pretty big storm. I have Thursday, Friday and Thursday
and Thursday morning was really bad with golf ball sized hail,
which sounded great against our metal roof. In the morning, I
was crazy. I was I mean the dog was freaked out. I have not seen
our dog freaked out by anything. But this freaked her out. And
then Friday it just I mean, it really missed Fredericksburg and
went right past us. Some prayer was involved, I'm sure. But
Dave Jones: yes, diversionary prayer. Yes, I forgot.
Adam Curry: Yes, but I forgot to add a diversionary tactic for
you. And it hit pretty hard. So So now, somewhere down the line,
my bandwidth was totally crapping out my upstream was
about 500 kilobits per second, which is not the typical
upstream. And that just as as I was figuring that out, you know,
bringing out different access points. I've gotten, you know,
I've got T Mobile Verizon, I have, if all else fails, I've
got Starlink, although that does introduce some latency. So we're
messing around with that. And then Dave goes, Oh, bad signal.
The power went down in the office. What happened there?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, that's so yeah, I guess yesterday was a
total cluster. I mean, like, I got in the car, even going back
before what? What happened with the show, I got in the car, to
leave to go to the office for work. And I get a ping on my
phone. I look down at the phone and it says, you've got a guest,
Mike, Michael and Sam from wave lake at 9am. Oh, right. What?
None, right? No. 30. And so I get to the office and I emailed
them. And I'm like,
Adam Curry: and they're always there. We're sitting ready. They
got the headphones on everything good.
Dave Jones: I was like, Hey, guys, please tell me this was a
this was a timezone mix up. And I didn't actually send you a
load report. And they were like, No, you send it for nine. I was
like, damn it.
Adam Curry: How does it? How does that happen? Because you
use you know, use Google use your calendar for that.
Dave Jones: Now use fast mails, calendar, but it's all through
the iPhone. I don't think I've ever messed that up in in a
mess. I just totally boned it. I mean, like, it was terrible. And
then it turned out it was it was actually good that they didn't,
they didn't that we had to move the interview because then all
that stuff happened with your bandwidth and then the power
went off at work. And so then I was like, I gotta go back. I
mean, I gotta get back to the office now.
Adam Curry: Does it blip or does it fail over nicely to the to
the UPS is that handle the switch over to the generator?
Dave Jones: Yes, it's same. It's seamless. But see, we have for
four reasons. We can't get natural gas. We have diesel
generator. And so
Adam Curry: you are single handedly responsible for climate
change right now.
Dave Jones: If I was and I was I was pouring five gallons of
climate change into the generator with every jug less
than
Adam Curry: five gallons of climate change coming right up.
That's how they should measure it. Oh my god, yeah, pretty
climate change.
Dave Jones: And that's the so I got like, the lightning struck
the power pole that feeds our building and we have three phase
power. So it took one of the lines, it was just gone. I mean,
like it just blew the thing off the pole. And
Adam Curry: what the whole transformer blew right off the
pole.
Dave Jones: There wasn't a transformer it's like it's like
there's it's three phase so you get three lines coming in in one
one of the connector lines that go off the main was just gone.
And so the power of come they came out
Adam Curry: you didn't get your your your gear out and clamp in
the pole and reconnect that thing.
Dave Jones: I don't I don't know. I don't do a lot of poll
work these days.
Adam Curry: These days.
Dave Jones: Now now I'm on all this. Now, because the isobar is
working so well now I'm just feet. I'm trying to feed the
isobar as much as I can I sell
Adam Curry: bought is unbelievable. I love I was just
telling Tina, how that works is that how does that happen? How
do they even do that? It's magic map. They have running, running
some kind of transcript in real time.
Dave Jones: But I got home about one o'clock in the morning.
Adam Curry: Oh my goodness. Power was back on by them.
Dave Jones: Yeah, where they fixed so we had to turn because
it wasn't actually all the way out. It was just it was out of
phase. Only one of the lines was gone. So things were like
flickering lights. were flashing like disco tech. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Phasing. Oh, that's fantastic.
Dave Jones: That was horrible. It was scary. So they were like
yeah, we're shutting the whole thing. We're just shutting the
whole Yeah, make sense. Anyway, so did didn't want that. But it
was it was just a weird, man. It's just a weird weekend so
far. Very strange.
Adam Curry: Well, I'm so hot man. So and you and your work
today as well at the office? I did. Yeah. Because he went right
back in at nine o'clock. No. Was there eight? Yeah. After getting
home at one.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but I'm gonna I'm gonna sleep really good
tomorrow. Okay, I'm making that today. I'm making up for it.
Tonight. I took a shower, before the show to like, wake myself up
getting myself fired up.
Adam Curry: Yeah. You're lit.
Dave Jones: Lit and lit. is lit as I can
Adam Curry: get this show is lit, which is the formula for
for success. As far as I'm concerned. This is a live item
tag where if you use the appropriate podcast app, you'll
actually get an alert for this pod verse seems to be the one
that's doing it the best I think podcast addict has it and don't
is that out of beta yet. The podcast addict alert system.
Okay. And of course, Europe curio caster. I was looking at
the charts yesterday. With me spinning our tunes for two and a
half hours, something really magically happened. And to me,
it was yeah, it happens during a regular show, too. But there's
something about the audience participation that just went
with the flow. And, you know, because of course we have the
chat room when you when you use pod verse, the chat room opens
up, you get the live signal. You go into the live the live item
right there and your list. You can chat along and you can boost
in real time. And I think was Todd Cochran. Mr. Blueberry, he
started off. He's like 25,000 SATs and he wanted a song. And
he said right there, the next request has to be five more. And
it was like, Okay, the next one was 30,000. And then I think,
was Carolyn Blaney. She sent 20,000 requested something, but
blueberry came in and said, I'm gonna add 15,000 to make up so
it's 35 for her request. And people just do things up and up
and up, like 5060 70,000 SATs and requests and I'm like, stop.
First of all, I was embarrassed. Yeah. But also, I discovered
something else. When you open up the stream to requests, you get
a lot of shit. It's not really necessarily in the groove of the
dance party. Metallica Okay, right? Yeah, I like Metallica
too. It's just, you know, and then followed by polka music
from Weird Al Yankovic it was it was a little a little hectic, it
was all over the spectrum. But we had a good very reminiscent
Dave Jones: of FUBAR Fridays with the Dropbox.
Adam Curry: Daily source code. Exactly.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that was all over the map to like some of the
some of those was like, okay, yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah, yeah. But it was it was really fun. And it
was just nice to see everyone kind of go with the flow. And
that's something that we're bringing something really
beautiful back that existed many, many many years ago. I
mean, these days you even have Okay, I should probably play
this chat GPT is now doing radio GPT they're literally pitching
AI voices to run your radio station. And I got to play this
this little demo they have. So as I've done a lot of top 40
radio work certainly in the in the 90s, late 80s, early 90s it
already was very formulaic. Now you had a lot of leeway
depending on who you were what time slot you have, you know
what station, but in general, Steve Kingston legendary program
director who was at GE 100 When I was there, he would say, Hey,
man, and a monkey could do this. Just read the liner cards and
hit the button. And literally, that's it always ended with z
100.
Dave Jones: That's in New York, right? Z. When
Adam Curry: do you want 100? Toby? Yeah, I was brought in by
Scott Shannon, who's the legend who I've you know, had probably
any of my radio career to thank because I emulated him so much.
So the I all the elements that you know, just for the regular
jocks I will say for you know, except for drive time in the
morning, and drive time in the afternoon. everyone kind of has
to follow these rules overnight. You could break some some, some
rules and stuff, but now they still the most expensive part of
any organization is going to be people so screw the DJs get rid
of the button pushers. We don't even need monkeys anymore.
Listen to this promo from radio GPT. And by the way, everything
that they're talking about is something that you are told and
trained to do as a disc jockey. These days eatery
Unknown: is revolutionizing the audio industry with the launch
of radio GPT, the world's first AI driven localized radio
content solution. Ready radio GPT combines the power of GPT
three technology with future ease AI driven story discovery
and social content system Rubik posts, as well as AI voice tech
to provide an unmatched localized radio experience for
any market any format or grid using q3. Link. Topical system,
along with AI voice technology, radio GPT brings a radio station
to life.
Adam Curry: It brings the radio station to life.
Dave Jones: It actually kills.
Unknown: I can see what's in your music log and talk about
the songs or artists on your station. Oh, wow,
Dave Jones: you're dead.
Unknown: I can see what's happening in your local market
right now and talk about it in real time. Right? It looks like
the Dairy Queen is flooded. I can post on your Facebook,
Instagram, Twitter and tick tock during my show. Hey, I'm
Adam Curry: doing a show. Listen
Unknown: to me talk about what's coming up.
Adam Curry: I'm going to record.
Unknown: I am great at teasing and pre promoting content going
into breaks.
Adam Curry: Oh, you're teasing. Oh, yeah. Coming up next on 100.
Unknown: I can talk about the weather or traffic is nice. I
can see how many people are listening right now through
future streaming and say hello to certain locations.
Dave Jones: Oh, Cleveland.
Unknown: I can take open mic audio from listeners using
future immobile and incorporate their thoughts. Oh, yeah, the
Rockies
Dave Jones: go Oh, yeah,
Adam Curry: that'll that'll end well. I think gone are the days
of Shindig, what was your favorite radio station?
Unknown: questions and feedback into my show. I can share news
updates and current events relevant to your audience's
interests and demographics.
Adam Curry: Okay, she knows my interest in demographics. But
Donna had a buddy and plans.
Unknown: I have experienced conducting engaging interviews
with notable guests and experts now.
Adam Curry: This is the one this is the one that I'm like you're
gonna do an interview with notable guests okay?
Unknown: You can give away prizes, tickets, and exclusive
experiences to listeners through on air contests using future
mobile splash contesting
Adam Curry: flash contesting it should be Whoa, would you be
contrasting but okay,
Unknown: I am skilled at creating unique and entertaining
breaks that keep your audience engaged and coming back for
more.
Adam Curry: So this this drivel and by the way, they have a
video of this of this AI bot she doesn't blink and trust me to be
a good podcast or like me you got to blink have to read all
kinds of ticks otherwise you just no good you got to have
that
Dave Jones: most that's the bottom bar
Adam Curry: is not blinking. So this of course is atrocious. But
this will this will get get radio airtime people will do
this. And compared to what we had going on yesterday. It's
there's just no comparison that the thing lived it live. And
people were feeding back in real time. The whole thing was just a
beautiful experience. It was so special about it
Dave Jones: as a DJ Yeah. I mean, so this is this was great.
So I'm listening to the bootleg. And, and, and it's it reminded
me so you weren't expecting thing. You weren't expecting for
things to go in that direction? No, I was not like better No,
yeah, back in the day when you would do a daily source code and
things would you came in knowing what you were getting your your
bad rest on,
Adam Curry: that allows stuff. Yeah, good to go. Yeah.
Dave Jones: And so this, this, this evolved at the first, maybe
the first 15 minutes or so 20 minutes, you're kind of like
understanding where this thing was headed. About 30 minutes
into it, you're hitting the groove, I'm gonna like it was.
And then and then an hour in, you were just, I mean, it was
full, it was like it was 2004 all over again. I mean, these
are 2007. I mean, he's been, you're killing it.
Adam Curry: The thing that was that was weird is I, you know,
Spotify, the he used to have. Spotify would allow third party
apps. And you could have two songs or more even. But you
could have two tracks, one playing and one queued up. So
while one is playing, you can then go listen to another one.
But if you only have one, Spotify app, you can't queue
anything up. So I was literally like stopping it clicking on
something while I'm talking clicking on the next one. And
then because it had to load for a second, you know, the
bandwidth was kind of shitty as well. So I was really just, you
know, it was very, very low bar low tech, to do it this way. And
luckily, I had a couple of tracks myself. So, you know, if
I was trying to queue something up, I could, you know, do
something else on a different a pre fader Listen, but it was
definitely not ideal from a, from a music library standpoint,
it's too bad that Spotify doesn't allow you to do that
anymore.
Dave Jones: I've never done obviously never done any of that
kind of thing. So I'm imagining that the way it goes is your the
the track this live is playing and then you and then off sort
of offline or off air pre prefix you okay, you're listening to
the next tried to get up to figure out what's what is going
to be Yeah, and then you cute. You're okay. That's how it goes.
Yeah. The fact that you couldn't do that, and it was still as
smooth as it was. I mean, your brother?
Adam Curry: Totally. Hey, I'm also available for bar mitzvahs
and weddings. boosters, boosters, boosters live. We've
saved yet another life. I'm very happy to. Very happy. Yeah,
well. I think this person wanted to stay anonymous. Okay, thanks
for opening my eyes to the pod fasting side effects, which I
think is called pod speeding. Because sound pod pod fasting
Dave Jones: sounds like you're not lucky like you're listening.
Yes, yes.
Adam Curry: So my use case was this. I tried to listen to the
show live on pod verse. But my wife is in Germany, but my wife
wouldn't let me listen to the whole show. So the next morning,
I would one point 25 bit to re listen to the bits I heard, live
and catch up on the missed out sections. Of course, this meant
that I'd be fidgety the day after now I know why. And I
won't do it again.
Dave Jones: Thank you very much about that. There's a delay.
There's your it takes you a day to come down.
Adam Curry: Yes. Okay, well, how about this? So RTP Richard
Peterson, key cop something when you and I were discussing this,
and it really blew my mind I have to set it up. So when we
were talking about you know that this stuff can hijack your
nervous system and makes you impatient with the people you
around you who you love or nip the office or your kids. It
conditions you to accept fake people like that radio GPT lady,
you know, there's a whole bunch of downsides to it. And you said
that, you know, you had heard me bitching about this several
years ago. And and you stopped doing it and you notice that
immediately you or not like a day or two later you had more
patience, right? Am I my recounting that correctly?
Dave Jones: Yeah, it took a couple of days it took two three
days and then I realized that everything felt more right and
like everything just felt normal. And like like as far as
listening to the speak because I was so used to I've been
listening to you guys for years on fast speed and it took it
took two or three days for me to get used to not hearing you like
that. But then it's like is as soon as my mind adjusted to it,
everything else fell into place to own on like in the world.
Adam Curry: So one of the things you would use is the silence
chopper. From Yes, so now listen to that podcast. So this is last
week's board meeting the minute you start talking about the sped
up chopped silences you actually start talking fast. Listen to it
as a as a reformed
Dave Jones: podcast, multi multi multi XOR I don't know what you
call that multispeed person sick. Yeah. Yeah, as a
Unknown: form, sicko. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I used I used to listen to All my podcasts in one
at one point I speed up speed up with the with the whatever
whatever that thing is where chops out the silences between
them and all that kind of stuff.
Adam Curry: Yeah, the silence chopper. Did you hear what you
just did there? Yeah, I started
Dave Jones: as I just went, boom
Adam Curry: a little bit. Yeah. And then and then right after
that you slow down again listen, listen,
Dave Jones: whatever, whatever that thing is where chops out
the silences between them and all that kind of stuff. Yeah,
the silence chopper. Silence Joe Yeah. And then.
Adam Curry: And then you go back to normal speed. I think that
it's still in you. The programming is still there. You
need you need an exorcism, I believe I believe
Dave Jones: it's a virus
Adam Curry: you're cured, you're healed. Thank you for that.
Fantastic observation.
Dave Jones: This is a good observation because I'm
naturally sort of a stammer because I try to get my brain
goes faster than my mouth. So I have to get them in sync. And if
I I do this, the way I talk on the show is exactly the way I
talk to people in all around me all the time. And I realize that
it frustrates them. And so I tried to talk slower, but then
if it could, because when I talk fast, my stammering gets way
worse. It's not stuttering. It's not like that Nina is not like
that, is because I start a sentence. Realize it realize
that that's not the right way to start it and then go back and
sometimes I'll start a sentence three times in a row. And it
drives Melissa crazy. So like, the faster I get it becomes just
like it turns into mush.
Adam Curry: Oh, that's interesting. Well, actually, I
find the way you talk very engaging I in fact, I enjoy it.
Believe me if I didn't like it, I would be fuck this thing. I'm
not gonna this board meeting for two hours. But I enjoy
personally. I like flaws. I like it when people except the
president, the president, he has no brains left. I mean, that's
different. What he's what he's got going on there. But I like
Cridland has also has a stammer. And it's quite endearing. He is
M's and ELLs. And I like it. I like that kind of stuff.
Dave Jones: I like the humanity of it in Yeah. Oh, yeah. It
makes
Adam Curry: you human. It's the exact opposite of the robo jock.
Dave Jones: That's yeah, that shakes said nothing wrong.
Adam Curry: Right. There's nothing wrong, nothing unique.
Nothing interesting. Nothing that makes you and certainly the
writing was inhumane. I mean, you know, it's like, this stuff,
in my opinion, all that those little nuances will never work.
Unless, you know, people start tricking themselves by listening
to roboticized speech to begin with, which is what pod speeding
is. Your
Dave Jones: I immediately I immediately heard the problem
with that. You know, AI bots? Yeah, the DJ no fake DJ vanilla.
Yeah, it's funny how it like, have you seen the AR RT stuff?
And it always messes up the hands? Yes. Like the floors look
like they're look like a bunch of chopsticks by the way yeah,
that's there's something about you sound like
Adam Curry: she sounded like that. But like chopstick
fingers, yeah, sounds like, this is the value for value podcast.
For those who need an explanation. We have a whole
website for IT value number four value dot info. But the whole
concept is, we give you value, which is free for anyone to
receive. Because of course, we can charge what we want and make
it set up behind a paywall or make it to premium content only.
But only you can determine what something's worth to you. And
maybe a lot of money is 50 cents or $5 a month or a week or
whatever. And maybe $500 is what it's worth to you because of
some incredible tip that we gave you or we made you feel good or
made you laugh or made you feel human, you get to determine that
and send it back to us. And we prefer if you do it in a modern
podcast app, podcast apps.com is where you can find a whole bunch
of someone who had an since we have so many apps and services
now using the podcast index, and the API associated with it that
we should probably put the edge that actually forward you to
podcast index.org/apps We should probably only put apps there now
and then and make a new section for all the different hosting
companies and services. Which probably Yeah, I agree with
Dave Jones: that because you just like you go to podcast
apps.com And you see Buzzsprout
Adam Curry: Yeah, Is that someone something anyone can do
with? With a, with a pull request? That'd be great. That'd
be great. If we can get those TPS reports done by tomorrow,
that'd be great. Just ask me, that's real value there. We
would appreciate if someone did that as value for value that is
valid. valid value.
Dave Jones: The comments, the cross out comments work on the
website continues. Yeah. And gourmet. Nathan, John, they're
continuing, you know, they're just chipping away at this
thing. And I was was going to get the latest pull request out
today into production, but I didn't get a chance to but there
I mean, that they're continuing to do I think they may have
their eyes set on posting, like feedback like replies.
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Oh, right. From the right from the website.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. And so the changelog podcast guys got
in there. And we're pitching in to on Oh, cool, awesome stuff.
So yeah, I mean, it's, it's going somewhere. There's this a
team effort, the website being open source is fantastic. Number
one, because you don't have the amount of
Adam Curry: time to time.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you know, it's funny, it's funny, not being a
JavaScript guy. I learned all the horrible things about
JavaScript after the fact. So these are all new to me. Yeah.
And and I say, Oh, my God date is zero indexed on the month and
everyone's like, Oh, yeah, you can tell the funding this years
to life,
Adam Curry: as well. So since you mentioned that, I have, I
have a comment about the integration of get Alby and
websites. So the experience is as follows. And I noticed this,
it really hit me when I used pod verse on the web, the web
version. Here's the experience. So you have your your wallet
connected, or you're using the lb extension. So let's take
podcast index.org as an example. And there's a beautiful box and
you type it all in and you hit go with the number. And then
I'll be if you're not already authorized, I'll be able to go
through that process. And then it pops up and it says, pay this
amount to this person, sit, create a budget. You know,
always remember, this was all these options, because it has to
go through the splits, it does each one independently. And if
you don't know what you're doing, if you don't say you do
this, then it spits back every single time. It's like people
you don't know it's very confusing. And the whole budget
thing it's like, what we need is an explanation. And the same
goes for when you do it with POD verse on the web. So get Albie,
because I got a very nice boost today. But it didn't go through
the splits. And I know why. Because it was just a user I'd
get Alby and they're using the extension popped it up curry in
the keeper, boom, and then whatever else happened that just
dumped out. So we've that has to be and I understand why from the
get Alby side, I understand, but that has to be looked at so
maybe Bumi. And the guys can can take a look at just making it a
little more clear. You know, what is a budget? Why do I need
a budget? Do I want a budget? Why do I have to remember this
for the rest? You know, just it needs? We need some explanation
there. Just some words that explain to people what's
happening.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I've noticed that too. And I've kind of
forgotten about it. Yeah.
Adam Curry: I have Trillium.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, that thing you're you're
Adam Curry: organizing. Yes. My second brain. Exactly. Yeah,
Dave Jones: admit, to bring that up a few times. Because it runs
you through. It's like, okay, sand, sand, sand. Sand is it
runs through every one of those. Yeah,
Adam Curry: and we know what's happening. But mere mortals and
then we're not talking the podcast, mere mortals will have
an issue. So that will be something that that we could
work on.
Dave Jones: Let me throw let me throw this at you. Maybe at a
left field here or it may not be I don't know where your where
your minds at but what do you think about the Spreaker thing
going free? Did you see that? Yeah.
Adam Curry: I think it's a bit of a red herring. Because it's
not entirely free. Yes, storage may be free. But there are still
different tiers. It's kind of a thing. It's a little bit of a
bait and switch.
Dave Jones: Okay, you may you sound like you know more about
this than me because I tried to figure out what they meant and I
couldn't make their press release make sense. I went
Adam Curry: to the source I went to the guru Todd Cochran.
Cochran told me now this is bait and switch, they've got they've
got they still have different levels and you don't get
everything. It is definitely a nice offering. To me. It's a
Hail Mary. It's like what are we going to do now? This is I heart
I believe, right? Do they own Spreaker?
Dave Jones: Yes, and I've got So, I would like to dig in on
that, after you say this, because I've got some, I've got
some art stuff.
Adam Curry: Oh, good. It seems like some Todd didn't seem
overly concerned about it. I'm very concerned in general,
because I just don't believe in free. Because there is no such
thing as free. And you're gonna get screwed somewhere down the
line. If anything by by getting the rug pulled from under you, I
don't like it because I know how much goes into running a good
host and the I don't know much about Spreaker I believe back in
the early days, Spreaker was caching the content early, early
days long time, I may be wrong, but that was Stitcher. I'm
sorry, write your stitches, a scrap that I know what goes into
making a hosting company work, especially with customer
service. And I want all of our, all of the hosting companies to
prosper, and I want them to be able to, to, you know, to
provide good customer service and good service in general at a
fair price. And something like this comes along. And you know,
it's kind of like anchor so it may also pollute, you know, just
get a lot of pollution out there, I think is probably to
jack up their numbers. Look how many podcasts we've got. So I
did I just don't hold them in high regard for doing this. And
it just doesn't seem like I mean, I feel and then I'd love
to hear what about the I heart stuff, I feel personally that
there should be a way for podcast host to bring people on
at a quid pro quo of value for value. It's like, we're gonna
take 20% Split until a certain amount, or whatever, if you want
to pay, you know, you can pay instead of doing that it's all
enabled right out of the gate. Something like that, I think
would be a great offering. And I think that people would pick up
on it. And I think that you'd probably make more than 20 bucks
a month that you that you do normally from these podcasts. So
it would be a net win in my mind.
Dave Jones: Well, that's the only way I can make this make
sense. And this is before I've fully understood that it wasn't
free across the board. Because I was thinking at first I was
thinking, Oh, this is a Charles Schwab type deal. You know what
I mean? Where they? Schwab was about three years ago, dropped
their commission fees on trades. Oh, yeah.
Adam Curry: And everyone dropped? Yeah, everybody had to
drop it. Yeah.
Dave Jones: And so I thought it was free across the board. But
this is a little it changes a little bit. But I still I still
think some of this may apply. Maybe they are looking out and
they know something ever, I think, at least on our show me
and you both believe that anchor isn't going to last forever.
It's going to fold at some point. It's too much of an
albatross around around Spotify neck. And that's completely
free. Maybe the the ease of use of the of the anchor app and all
that stuff was you know, the thing that made it a train
wreck. I mean, maybe they just think that their ad dai ad
offering is enough to make up the difference of all this. You
know,
Adam Curry: what, how about that maybe? Good point. Maybe they're
thinking, Hey, as long as we get enough people, jump folks with
with a with a podcast feed will actually be able to fulfill the
inventory.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah,
Adam Curry: that makes sense. That makes sense.
Dave Jones: Okay, well, that leads me into this. I brought
some clips. Do you have my clips? I do. The lets you know,
there was some talk about Marcos discussion on I guess it was
MacBreak. Weekly, which I did not watch. Yeah, I didn't watch
it initially. And then I and then I did and it, you know,
it's fine. I had, I really didn't have much of a problem
with I think there was some misunderstanding with chapters.
But other than that, I mean, basically, Marco at least he
basically just said, I don't want people telling me what to
do.
Adam Curry: And you know, I hear you. I don't want people telling
me what to do either.
Dave Jones: I don't either. And so I'm like, Okay, I mean, I
really wasn't bothered by anything that he said. But the
more interesting part of their conversation that was about
advertising, and the display, Lea one ad market is life
threatening.
Unknown: We're going through I don't know about you, Marco and
I don't know, we've heard from other podcasters. We're going
through an advertising downturn that is existential, it's life
threatening.
Oh, yeah. It's not that bad for our show. But it's, it's this is
the worst ad market we've seen in probably a few years. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Well, that is only accentuated by NPR, who say
they have a $30 million deficit and it's pretty much from the
podcasting department.
Dave Jones: Yeah, not So I think there's a clearly there's shows
out there that are doing they're doing just fine. And as the
Independence shows they have kept their in markets that
they're doing. They're doing okay. That mean they're not
doing great but they're doing if I
Adam Curry: may, and I don't know much about it but but what
I know from the past with AD markets, if you have a brides
magazine, you're always going to get DJs venues dressmakers, and
and you know this this was the PC Magazine, you know, back in
the day, you know, you're gonna get Dell and HP and everyone's
gonna advertise because it's just kind of built into their
budget. If you're a general program, a general podcast, and
you're looking for BMW and and and T Mobile, etc. Get that's
where you're gonna get cut. So a specialist tech podcast or we
like a Bitcoin podcast, I'm sure there may be some some pullback
on the on the overall numbers. But that's pretty much what
you're, you're still going to get that it may even involve
more host reads I don't think that the dynamic inserted ad
market is probably the is really being affected. But apparently,
even in Leo's network, he says existential. I think that's
because he just has too many people too many shows. And as we
all know, you can't you can't monetize the network. If it's
just twit itself. I'm sure that's doing fine. I'm sure
security now is doing okay. But everything else yeah, it may
just be a pullback, because just too much
Unknown: play Lea to it. This is normal. This is normal behavior.
And when you're at the bottom of the down, it might feel like the
world's never going to come back. But it will eventually.
Good tell that to my AD team. Okay. Actually, we have a we
have an unusual problem, because foolishly we built something
that has high overhead. Yeah. And I mean, we have a two and a
half million dollar a year. Not. So we don't have the luxury of
saying, well, if advertising, Stan will just weather it and go
through it. Thank goodness that we did do that. And I think
everybody who's in podcasting, for real understands that the
only thing that keeps podcasting and live as the community, the
listeners, the people who you have a relationship, direct
relationship with, and clubs, Patreon, that kind of thing
really give not only give you that little extra income, but
they make a big difference in bonding the audience to you. So
we two years ago, we created club twit, and that was that was
a huge part of it. But it's still I mean, it's still 1/10 of
1% or something, maybe it's I would love if I get 5% of the
audience to subscribe, we wouldn't need advertisers. But
right now it's not even 1% Most people will getting something
for free aren't gonna start suddenly paying for it, I'm
afraid.
Adam Curry: I'm afraid you're wrong. I'm afraid you're wrong.
Dave Jones: You know, clearly he's wrong. But that that is
that speaks to what you're saying these in specific shows
are going to do okay, can't monetize the network. But they
these middle sort of middle weight columns like a I don't
know the term middle weight where this kind of like a fat
over hedge, you know, network or show with those dread ads? Yes,
you're in trouble. Yeah.
Adam Curry: It's also I'm sorry, podcasting. The only reason it
works. I have one example. Well, actually, this podcast was a
great example. But it's slightly different because we have a
project attached to it. So we do have a specific ask for specific
thing. But without the podcast, believe me, we wouldn't be
getting anywhere near what we're what we're getting now. But no
agenda is the example. And you'd have to keep asking, we ask
everybody we had a newsletter before the night before the
show. We had the newsletter has content in it, but we it's
definitely a an ask. The overhead is incredibly low. And
that is partially because of the we've we've followed the whole
model all the way through time, talent, treasure. So voyage zero
mark up in the northern part of the Netherlands for almost 13
years, maybe longer. He's been running our infrastructure,
keeping that overhead incredibly low. Considering the amount of
bandwidth we push. Every website was built by someone else who
just jumped in to help. And we acknowledge them and give them
credit for it. And they give him props. And by the way, they they
sometimes put a little donate thing on their own work for
that, which we're fine with. So keeping that this that show was
run out of the vortex top drawer, basically, you know, I
do all the production stuff. He handles all the money stuff.
Now, we we of course we have an accountant and you know, we do
have to pay a little extra and they're, you know, someone puts
together the spreadsheet. It's from his family, so we're
getting pretty cheap labor there. But that's only because
it really grew out of just too much for us to handle In
addition, but we've kept the overhead just it's us It's
actually and, again, time talent, treasure. I have three
four people who reliably, reliably send me clips that are
perfectly produced and we credit them for it. In fact, the clip
custodian is in the value for value split gets a split. He
does, yes. Jeff Smith, who has created all of our sound imaging
and whenever we say she, we need jingle for that just miss shows
up. You're not gonna send us a bill, the art. Now not all of
the audit, we changed the art for every single show. Not all
the artists have a wallet. I've encouraged them to get one. The
winning artists whose art is huge in the show gets a split. I
wish
Dave Jones: people would send art for our show. Just say.
Adam Curry: Yeah, we'll be fine. The overhead low is incredibly
important. And this is what Spotify screwed up.
Dave Jones: Well, this is affecting I want to I want to
throw a curveball at you in a second. But I gotta set it up.
Okay, I gotta set it up. And then I'm gonna I'm gonna
curveball the spit ball at you. It's gonna be a breaker.
Adam Curry: All right. My bad is quarks. I'm ready.
Dave Jones: Okay, the. So I think this is also affecting,
it's affecting the big guys too. But they've been able to do
something that the middleweight mass, say the big guys, I mean,
like our heart and the big the big players, the big ones. So
they have tactics that the small guys don't have, or the smaller
guys don't have. So this is a interview on decoder with Conal
Byrne, the CEO of ahart, digital. And so I heard is split
into sort of two components. They're split into their digital
audio group and the multi platform group. The digital
audio group has podcasts, the multi platform group has
broadcast radio, and in turn, sort of traditional broadcast.
So play 101, how you hide the numbers,
Unknown: we felt at I heart that a lot of the value that we had
as a company, we wanted to unlock and make more transparent
to the investor community, to audiences, to researchers to
analysts. One way to do that is to create different operating
segments in your company so that you can talk more about how well
you're doing inside certain divisions and businesses, as
opposed to it all getting lumped together into one big overall
set of numbers.
Adam Curry: Right, which Spotify doesn't do very well actually
read.
Dave Jones: They're not very good. So when I say hide the
numbers, I don't mean that like they're doing anything
nefarious, because all companies do this. It's just normal. No,
they're
Adam Curry: just trying to trying to show the Wall Street.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, this is this. This is just normal. But
but the smaller, the smaller groups that can't do this sort
of financial trickery. But the so if you look at there's a
document in there with the I heart financials that you may
want to look at, yeah, I got it. I mean, look at this. I'm
looking at I'm looking at accountant here. You're like
Adam Curry: a stock guru. This is like DHL plugged all of a
sudden, okay. I'm looking at a revenue stream in a table. My
eyes are swimming.
Dave Jones: All right. Yeah. So the I'm thinking that the
middleweights? Well, let's just look at our heart thing. So they
said they say on here that they grew in their, in their podcast
group, they, it says that they grew 44.3% for the three months
ended December 22. December 2022. Year, in your footnote,
though, correct. In says, it says this, absent excluding
political revenue, ah, it was only six and a half percent,
right. It was an election year. It was an election year and 22.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Which is billions of dollars billions of
dollars.
Dave Jones: The same thing with broadcast broadcast that it grew
point 9% in the third quarter and the fourth quarter, it
actually seemed to exclude political ad revenue. It was a
loss of 2.8% Yeah, you go in it's the same thing for the hope
for the full year. The full year goes from a 22% growth and
podcast revenue to only a 5%. The
Adam Curry: beauty of political ads is they don't give a crap
they don't care what you're on the more crazy you are the
better
Dave Jones: and they blast it across everything. They let do
like the most broad spectrum by good catch. So this to me what
what was what was bothering me or a little weird was why 2022
was a very hard financial economic year. But the
advertising wasn't as down as much as you thought it was. A
bit of money came in for the cause of the political
advertising but then at 23 Now you're starting to see the pain.
Yeah, like the first quarter of 23 has been brutal. And that
that's where I think that this may, this may explain Springer's
move here. Because being being part of I Heart, they may be
feeling feeling the hit. And they may this may be a push
across the entire company eventually to go full in dai
dynamic ad insertion. And if that happens, those done, the
more inventory space you push onto the market, it's going to
push those CPM rates way down. Oh, yeah, you're just gonna have
too much, you're gonna have too much ad space to be filled. And
that's going to affect that's going to drive everything down
for everybody across the board. I think this the Latin the fact
that the last year was a political year and going into
2023. This could be bad, though. It's
Adam Curry: bad. It's guaranteed to be bad
Dave Jones: on because everybody thinks da everybody thinks oh,
listening to leet Leo, everybody's like, Oh, well
spoke, you know, the baked in ads, the host reads, those are
struggling right now. But Dai is where that's okay. But I'm
thinking the AI is about to take a hit to
Adam Curry: I think it was about $13 billion spent political
advertising and all medium. That's a lot of money. It's a
crapload of money. It Yeah. And but yeah, that's why you know,
all the numbers, you know, they're down. You know, like,
revenue numbers. What I hear is like, 23% growth in the first
quarter, and then you know, six.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think so this, the Spreaker thing feels
like if they if they actually have enough people take them up
on up on this offer. And it's all based on Dai. This could end
up being a pretty bad thing across the across the industry.
Oh, it's gonna suck. This is what everybody doesn't
understand that dai the more the more people you have the sign up
for Dai, the lower the CPMs. Get for everybody.
Adam Curry: Also. Yeah. And I think the CPMs of the inserted
ads are quite low. Actually. They're probably in the 8% 10%.
I'm just spouting because I don't really know. I did enjoy
something Cridland posted on the podcast index dot social. It was
a screenshot of some, I guess tweet and it was a tweet or
remastered on doesn't matter. Podcasts are the new am talk
radio. Have you heard the ads on am talk radio, which like
reading your junk folder. And, and that's true. And you know,
it's ad load really is just, you know, putting as much in as
possible so they can actually pay the bills.
Dave Jones: This this Conal Byrne guy. Yeah, he actually had
this play a heart too, because he adds something that I think
is relevant to this,
Unknown: there was a moment on YouTube, where we all sort of
realized the same thing around like, 2010 or so there's like,
no, the optimal video is this length, and you have to open
with this kind of thing, and then close it with that. And to
some extent, you kill creativity and true innovation when you
start to reverse engineer what an asset should be for the
content platform that it's going to be distributed on. In fact,
you almost certainly kill, I think, true creativity when you
hit that moment. Podcasting, just as a side questions, not
your question, but as a side answer to it real quick.
Podcasting has bucked that a lot. To date. It has resisted
this notion of a podcast episode is supposed to be 28 minutes
long and have to add brakes. It's actually a lot of different
kinds of things. It can be a true crime limited series of
eight to 10 episodes that are 30 minutes long. It can also be
Stuff to Blow Your Mind episode that sometimes three hours long
of just two guys talking about stuff. And both are completely
okay, and really perform well, actually. So it hasn't yet hit
this moment of reverse engineering from the platforms
that it's on.
Adam Curry: Now, where was this? It was just part of that
hodgepodge thing. Yeah, it
Dave Jones: was Yeah. Because it was
Adam Curry: really interesting. I read a what I thought was a
very honest rundown from the Hollywood Reporter. And it
really explained, you know, this hot pod Summit. I'll read just a
couple pieces here from this article, which to me was like,
you know, the Hollywood Reporter is going to give you the
Hollywood angle, which means it's all about the money. That's
it's always all about the money in various conversation with
studio executives and creators a common refrain with the
difficulties of turning a profit on podcasting alone, even
Spotify, which recently revisited its podcast leadership
again, and had layoffs and show cancellations in his podcast
division is reevaluating its spending after pouring more than
$1 billion into licensing deals with acquisitions in the past
few years. As such, repackaging audio content and seeking out
derivatives like film and TV adaptations could be the key to
actually making good money in podcasting, especially now that
the mega deals of recent years are getting rare. And podcasters
are feeling the pressure to seek out more ad dollars from bigger
buyers to keep the lights on long term. And all of this isn't
even to acknowledge the creative ambitions around podcasting,
where creators want to produce expensive, Buzzy narrative
projects that can have a tangible impact on policy or
public conversation, but may have a harder time receiving
funding and support compared to the more assured success of
cheaper always on chat shows. And this is where a lot of stuff
has gone wrong. You know, the, in fact, I think the short form
or you know, the limited Ron eight episode, true crime,
fabulous format, but you just got to have a couple of really
good people who get together and do this as almost as a theater
troupe. You know, someone's got to be able to do the editing,
you've all got to be in it for, you know, for the love of what
you're doing. Because there's just not enough money to go
around to be funding these projects, which from what the
Hollywood Reporter is saying are basically pilots is basically a
pile. And I know that Dana Brunetti, who was a you know,
big no agenda guy. And he also got he got very interested in
podcasting 2.0 with the transcripts and chapter
features. He did 50 Shades of Grey, and was the producer on
House of Cards, top notch guy, top notch guy. And he he's, I
want to do a podcast network. I said, No, you don't. But okay,
so I want to do a podcast network. Basically, it's all
scripts, it's all pilots, it's all pitches. And of course, it
became a very expensive proposition because people are
now trying to make audio dramas out of them. And there's really
only room for a few and a few that will be will be big hits,
and it just is limited and who can do that stuff. And all the
other podcasts, it's just like blogging. When that started, I'm
gonna be a millionaire. I'm gonna be the next Joe Rogan.
It's just it's not that simple.
Dave Jones: I'm glad you brought that up, because this this is
the perfect time for me to say dai you suck. I mean, like it is
Dai is, and this is the part of
Adam Curry: dynamic add insert insertions. Yet
Dave Jones: this, it needs. This feels like shouting in the wind.
But it needs to stop stop sucking before it ruins
everything. The part of what Marco was saying on there was
about chapters was that the dynamic ad insertion messes up
the timing on chapters. Right and the so if you look at the
tray, if you look at the namespace, you've got
transcripts, chapters and soundbites, the out of let's see
20 to 20 out of 20 tags in the namespace. Three of them can be
affected by dynamic by lousy dynamic ad insertion. So if, if
we think about dynamic ad insertion for what it it will,
first of all chapters can be done and transcripts and sound
bites, all three can be done and take dynamic ad insertion into
account. Perfectly fine. Buzzsprout does it right now.
All of their time spent stamps are modified when the ads go in.
Yeah,
Adam Curry: bus bras, the only one I think that really pays
attention to that.
Dave Jones: That is it can be done if you if you care about
it. End to End soup to nuts to make this thing to make it stay
consistent. Dynamic ad insertion into your audio that results in
screwing up the timing of your other metadata points is like
inserting dynamic banner ads into your website which randomly
screw up your CSS and change the way your website layout
Adam Curry: tortured, hallelujah.
Dave Jones: This is what we're going to run into. We would not
tolerate that on the web. We would not tolerate an ad coming
in dynamically and changing the entire look and feel of the
website or the or all the sudden making the web making the font
bigger.
Adam Curry: We tolerate so much. I mean, just the other day I was
listening to pod news weekly review and it just cuts in the
comments. Session, let's take a break tu tu tu tu tu. And then
it comes back in and I forgot what they were talking about. It
was brutal,
Dave Jones: brutal. If you let a dynamic ad insertion, blow up
your website layout, you've chosen easy money over and over
content quality. In that, that is the the problem here. The
point of podcasting is audio. If you let a dynamic ad provider,
just blow up your audio and and your feed and make your fan
screw that it is a poor experience all the way around. I
mean, I, in some ways, I don't
Adam Curry: say we should not allow.
Dave Jones: I agree Satan, I think you're exactly right. We
should not allow this is that wasn't appropriate voice for
what Dai is
Adam Curry: the evil. Evil is a tool of Satan show title.
Dave Jones: It is a tool of Beelzebub. And that should be
it's a darkness a dark tool. Yeah, and here's what's gonna
happen. Everybody's everybody's dar implementations that went in
with no care about any of the supporting structure, like the
trap chapters, transcripts, all this because it is going to end
result in things being screwed up from here on out. And then
the DA market is going to tank when everybody floods in to try
and do dir because host raids aren't making any money. The
CPMs are going to go down and we're going to end up with punch
the monkey banner ads. In audio,
Adam Curry: I forgot all about punch the monkey. That's what's
gonna happen once the monkey and whack a mole. Remember that rock
and roll?
Dave Jones: You're gonna have the equivalent that is what
we're going to be left with this disgusting audio as
Adam Curry: well. Honestly, when it comes to the ad market, we're
still basically counting hips. I mean, yeah, it's all bullshit.
It's not without any it's not real IAB is is bullshit,
bullshit numbers. I mean, I love that's why I love op three, op
three, at least it's open, everyone can see what it is. You
can agree you can disagree. But it's all the same for everybody.
Now, but when you get all these different ways of counting and
not counting and who cares? A download or listen, time spent
list? I got all those steps. I got all the time spent
completion rate. Yeah, my completion rate here at home was
100%. Let me know. I mean, I'm just telling you.
Dave Jones: I think you mean it's a whole five
Adam Curry: by five.
Dave Jones: Oh, no cat
Adam Curry: and all counts, baby. Exactly. Yeah, I feel bad
about it. But I understand because there was such a hype.
Certainly in the last couple of years, so much free money. So
much. D E is going into podcasting. Cuz that's what the
you know, all that money's dried up. Now. Notice there's no more
Africa podcast day and, and bipoc podcast day, that's all
starting to fade away because the money is kind of drying up.
Now.
Dave Jones: Right?
Adam Curry: mean, it just seems to me that, you know, money in
money out I mean, it, there's just less of it. And it was a
lot of people were riding high on the hog. The podcast
Industrial Complex was there. And now you know, you get
YouTube saying they'll do something or soft toss or toss
away stuff. They don't really care.
Dave Jones: They really don't do things like inclusion
initiatives when you have lots of money. Yeah, but then, you
know, but then when you have, when you're cutting, even the
people you have, that you see how important those things
actually are to people. Because they, you know, they're like,
Oh, well, you know, we got to let you know, we don't care that
much. We get this money thing, you know?
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's like, they're not even they don't even
talk to Cridland. I mean, we want to do anything in podcast
and you gotta at least talk to Cridland,
Dave Jones: we care enough and we care a whole bunch until it
affects the stock price. And then we don't care about
Adam Curry: the exact the people that care for the podcasters is
right here in this group. People who care the ones that podcast
index dot social, they actually care. Now, I still truly believe
the reason why this project is working is because everybody has
a shot at at a cut of the money flow. Everybody's got a chance
at and everybody can include themselves. I really believe
that that's a big part of the of the of the of the I mean that
it's exciting to me every day. I wake up
Dave Jones: go ahead with value for value. All that matters is
the is the quality of the content. Yeah, yeah. If you make
a good product, you get value. That's there's no other. There's
no other secret sauce. You don't you
Adam Curry: don't have to buy adds in games that you know that
start auto downloading or convince people to click on
stuff now you're absolutely right. And I get great
statistics. Speaking of which, by the way,
Dave Jones: you have statistics. Yeah, I
Adam Curry: got lots of stats, contracts, contracts CLN, sh a x
dot app, it is doing something very interesting. I wanted to
pitch this to other people who listen to this podcast. So they
are statistics company, I guess their company was really, it's
really just an app. And that app loads in your browser that it's
without a server, I think, almost server lists. And all
your stats are loaded up and they run in your browser. And I
think they're doing with that with web assembly, that was not
the way what it is web assembly. And so they said, hey, you know,
we want to, we want to be a part of the flow. So can we have
access to the podcaster wallet, which we had done previously for
fountain? And you don't have to tell me who else who else. So
you can actually stream Satoshis rather the first ones. So
contracts is now actively out there. Marketing to podcasters,
Hey, come on in, look at all the stats we'll give you give you a
wallet, we sign you up, we make you value for value enabled. And
and you can manage your splits right here. And we're a
statistics provider. And of course, they I don't know
exactly what they take, but you know, but they've they have, you
know, the wallet can wherever they are getting Satoshi
somewhere in the flow. I want to pitch to anybody who wants to do
this, we have what I think is called a Partner API. Some
special access anything you even if you just want to be an
onboarding partner, you know, you can you can do a deal with
Alby or possibly with breeze coming up or you know, or
voltage or, and there's so many different people you can do a
deal with a pot with with wallets. Or maybe your wallet
provider I don't know. Or maybe you just do a an arm's length
deal and connect people into get Alby doesn't matter, you can
onboard people into value for value and get a piece of the
action for doing that. And I really want to encourage people
to think about doing that. It's a great way to move value for
value forward when we're growing at about 100 new podcasts a day.
Dave Jones: That brings up that's that actually makes me
want to bring up Daniel J. Lewis, his comment about the
fees?
Adam Curry: Yes, please. Well,
Dave Jones: I think I mean, it's not it's not too much to get
into. But I think that, here's the way that I look at the My
reasoning for lightning based value for value is really
simple. It's undie, platform mobile. If that's a word,
Adam Curry: we prefer to say censorship resistant,
Dave Jones: it's okay. Also known as on D platform,
Adam Curry: let me just write that down another show title.
Dave Jones: No middlemen, the payment goes from directly from
the listener directly to you. There's nobody in between. And
the fees are small, very tiny networks, you run it yourself.
But in order 123, those are the way those are the order of
importance that I see those that correct. The higher fees that he
is talking about, all come from add on services. So if if I
haven't, if I if I run a number on myself list, I'm just going
to give a scenario. If I run an umbrella in my house, and I also
run a podcast zone, those lightning value value payments
coming from the listener to me, the fees are virtually non
existent. Correct, they're very, very small, way less than
anything else you can get. Now, if I have a custodial wallet
somewhere, let's just say with blueberry, or Alby or some other
place that okay that they're going to take a percentage
because you've given you're now using their service and also you
add on a cot, you know, contracts for staff. But
there's, you know, you're you're now using somebody else's sir,
all these serve all these fees, they're coming from additional
services that people are offering, but those aren't, but
at the low of this, that's the difference is at the at the most
fundamental level, in the lightening value for value
ecosystem. I can run it myself and avoid all that. Yes. But in
the other system, the Patreon the the you know, these other
papers, you can't you don't even have that option. You were
excluded in the Fiat world from from participating in that
whatsoever in
Adam Curry: addition, so that I think a good example. And now
apps will charge what apps want to charge. And I, and it's
unfortunate but the fee, label, you know, the network fee, for
actually transferring a payment is not the same as a fee that is
taken by an app or a service, yet, they're both called a fee.
Voila, it is what it is. But if you take the plugin, the pod
press plug in, I think it is power press. So there's a 3%
fee, they tack on for that. If you don't like it, it's a free
market. It's a free market, you can you can go to some other
servers who do it for less. Same, we were saying with
podcast apps, if a podcast app is charging 5%, and your
listeners don't like it, your listeners can use a different
app, you can recommend a different app. This is this is
the open market this is you know, and it's we're already
getting close to having enough competition out there that it
will naturally kind of drive the prices down. It's beautiful that
way. And ultimately, as you point out, you can have an
umbrella at home on your cable modem. And wherever, wherever
you want to host host your files. And you can keep that
really within your own realm, which is the beauty of
podcasting. And you'll still be listed right up there with all
the big boys and podcasts. Next, it comes out of the same API.
Dave Jones: In the end, there's an M M, I'm not saying that
everybody can run an umbrella. I'm, that's not at all what I'm
saying. I'm saying in this in this framework in this scenario,
you you could if you wanted to, if you wanted to go learn it,
and you or if you have the the ability, or if you know somebody
that can help you, you can do it yourself. In the other world you
can't. That's that is to me that is the fundamental difference of
what's better everything else. Everything else is just sort of
like gravy on top of that,
Adam Curry: including the the fact that micro payments
themselves are just not feasible in any other system. In a Fiat
Fiat world is just not possible. Right. Right. We're so smart.
Dave Jones: That's the same thing. You know, do you see red
circle started popping? No, I didn't cool. Yes. Yeah. They
started they started and there's so he might Kayden over at Red
Circle started the pod pain flow a couple of days ago, and he's
easy said he's got about 13,000 feets he thinks Wow. Fantastic.
Yes. So that's coming on board. We've got there's somebody
there's another host, a larger host that is about to start
popping in that I cannot reveal yet.
Adam Curry: Oh, Todd Cochran, all of a sudden, I just, I
can't. I had a very interesting conversation. I can't talk. You
can't say it yet. Don't worry. It's coming. In the crowning.
Sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry.
Dave Jones: I like to just say, give a heads up, even though I'm
being coy. I like to give a heads up because I'd like I like
people to hear that things are happening. So they, they realize
that they're the things move slow, you know, things in the in
open source projects. Prior and then podcasting, especially
things move slow. So I like to let people know that there is
momentum and things are happening and don't get
discouraged. Even even because they're going oh, this
Adam Curry: is so much happening. I mean, I have to say
especially blueberry, big props. I listened to their podcast
insider, all about namespace all about the new features, that
Todd has seen the writing on the wall, them and I really
appreciate that about him. He's just gone. I know, everything's
flat. So we got to go, you know, everyone's zigging, you ever
we're gonna zag. We'll go over and do this. And he's really
pushing and he's educating. And he's, he's doing it himself. Now
he's, he's eating the dog food, which is important. It's really
important. And, you know, this is the difference between making
bold, especially value for value work, is by following you know,
the general guidelines, the general format of explaining
value, you want value back, there's a feedback loop, you got
to thank people. You know, you got to do it consistently. And
for my money, you should also be mentioning the amount of
Satoshis that you're receiving. Because it first of all, is very
transparent. People love that. It's also very aspirational. And
we've seen that ourselves. Like, just with that live thing we did
with the dance party. If I didn't tell people to request I
didn't tell people to boost 5000 SATs more for each song. I
didn't come up with that. But I accepted it.
Dave Jones: As you're breaking, you're breaking the rules based
podcasting order.
Adam Curry: This international international rules of
podcasting rules based order.
Dave Jones: Yeah, exactly. In the in the internet in the
international rules based podcasting order. We're like
North Korea.
Adam Curry: Yeah, we're lobbing missiles everywhere. There does
Dave Jones: that. Fancy Japan mostly. They were in the air at
one point.
Adam Curry: I just want to do a couple of quick boosts that
we've been receiving since since starting Dred Scott who of
course we love 33,333 He wants a birthday shout out. Well, of
course. Happy birthday. Happy birthday drab. I think was his
panties that were left on the turntable yesterday. I'm
Dave Jones: not quite sure. Hey, now Hey,
Adam Curry: thank you to phone boy. Cuz I I did interrupt his
show, or we interrupted his show on the stream. 6969 sent that
twice. Actually. He said never thought I'd be a lead in for the
pod father on a Saturday, Phoenix and I appreciate all
you're doing to advance podcasting. Come experience the
Lotus effect for yourself at oops, at Lotus effect dot show.
And thank you very much for letting us letting us break in
like that. We just shot in here sir Spencer 16969 Thanks again.
Dave. For the wonderful time Sunday. I'm bowls with buds.
Thanks, Adam for the club 30 throwback in the rowdy boardroom
dance party. Yes, anyone can run an unbroken, not everyone is
willing but for minimal effort. Everyone is capable. I think
that's actually kind of true. They do minimum, a man's just as
much to learn how to set up a podcast is to set that up.
Dave Jones: People set up a stereo system. That's not easy,
either. I remember
Adam Curry: those days. You got to strip the wires for the
speaker connectors.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And your mom would always call you and ask
you wouldn't How do you turn it on? You
Adam Curry: turn it off? Are you connected properly? Watch cable.
Okay, let's see. Well, we'll do more, we'll do more boost in a
second.
Dave Jones: Added enclosure. So dad was working with Dan
Benjamin on a on a project of his and he needed he needed a
way to
Adam Curry: are you an advisor?
Dave Jones: Yes, yeah. I'm an 8am, an unpaid adviser. The the
API, he needed a way to call the API and say, Okay, I've got an
iTunes ID and an enclosure URL. I don't know any other way to
reach outside. He's like I got I want. I know the enclosure URL
of the episode I need to get. And I know the iTunes ID of the
feed. So I given those two things. I want to be able to
give them to the index to the API and have in Have you
returned the show the episode. So we did that. So that's
interesting. That's in there now. So if you have if you hit a
scenario where you're like, I don't know the episode GUID, or
any other the title or really anything else about the episode,
all I know is the enclosure URL. You can now submit you can now
add that on as an extra parameter to the episodes by
iTunes ID your episodes by feed ID endpoints. And it will give
you back the correct episode information.
Adam Curry: Okay. Yes, that sounds like a cool endpoint.
Dave Jones: That's pretty neat. We hang in
Adam Curry: that all night. Oh, episode.
Dave Jones: We were moving forward then. The API.
Adam Curry: Good. pretty rich, getting pretty rich there, Dave?
Dave Jones: stuff with it? Yeah, you can do a lot of stuff with
it. I don't think I even talked about on the show that you can
now get live items back from the episodes endpoint. So if you
call the episodes by feed ID endpoint to give it a feed ID or
a feed URL. It will hand you back the episodes and the live
items. If if the show is live, has live out of scheduled or
live currently, you will get those back to there's there's a
lot of stuff that I only post about, like when we change the
API. I'm only posting about it on podcast index dot social, and
I forget to talk about it on the show.
Adam Curry: No, this was good. There was something else I saw
on the GitHub. An author tag you were talking about. I think just
some So you're
Dave Jones: ready to talk about publisher?
Adam Curry: Publisher? Yeah. Publisher author. Yes.
Dave Jones: So there's a proposal for a tag. This is
namespace talk. You want to drop that? Oh,
Adam Curry: I'm sorry. We haven't done that in quite a
while. And now it's time for some hot namespace talk. Yeah,
so I heard the dance party last night. Yeah. Jennifer came right
in, man. She's like, she's partying down.
Dave Jones: It is 730. On Saturday. Nice. I mean, that's
appropriate.
Adam Curry: It's okay. For now. Yeah.
Dave Jones: So that there was a proposal for a publisher, a way
to track publishers of shows instead of just simply the, the,
the host of the show. So if you have, like a way to for you to
go in and say, Okay, I want to see all of the podcasts by I
don't know what at wondery or luminary, or NPR just made NPR,
NPR is NPR. Some of them are tagged correctly, or tagged in a
way that you can do that some of them aren't. If there was a tag
there that was specifically for that. In the so he gives the
reference of the iTunes author tag, which is supposed to kind
of be that way. But it's, it's a little too freeform. And so the
freeform of the of it. Again, not a word, but the free form 80
of it is a little problematic, because you can't it gets messy.
Is it? You know, if you have to, if you have two publishers,
let's just say it's a joint effort between the New York
Times and cereal Yeah. Are you just gonna have freeform text in
their New York Times and cereal? And then another one may say
cereal a New York Times? No, that's
Adam Curry: not that's not that's not structured data
Dave Jones: is not structured data. So he proposed a way to do
it by, you know, will in a more structured way where you have
multiple entries there where it's for each publisher,
enclosed in sort of a parent tag. And then you can ease more
easily aggregate that and then go back after the fact and say,
show me all the podcasts by the New York Times and you get them
all. Together. think there needs more comments on that though?
Adam Curry: Okay. I have a link to it in the in the show notes.
Dave Jones: Because I'm a little I think it's not. It needs that
it. I see what he's doing. And I like it, but it does need some
work. And I think there just needs to be more voices in there
commenting on it would be good. Also in the namespace. On that
side of things, let's see what actually didn't me. I didn't
have another namespace you get anything else I get find this?
Adam Curry: Yes. I wanted to give another plug for the
transcript search tool, which Steven B put together. He needs
a domain name right now. It's transcript das search dot versal
dot app. Not a great name. No, but it's it's how we started
everything off. And he uses that kind of as his building place.
This thing is outstanding. And I'm not sure how to integrate it
into public life. I use it all the time. I mean, you literally
type in A C podcasting. 2.0 and you can search the directory,
that was my request. Okay, there it is podcasting. 2.0. And then
you can say Alright, now I'm going to do a search term. So
let's give me a search term. That's crazy. Dave, what's
something that we could use in our
Dave Jones: show?
Adam Curry: Yeah, in our show, yeah. Something that's gonna
show up once or twice.
Dave Jones: Just only once or twice. Oh my gosh. Okay, cake.
See, aka Jenkins
Adam Curry: Well turns out episode 118 one occurrence, and
I can click on the timecode and then I can hit play these things
that was just icing on the cake for a corporation to score
brownie points. Oh, come on. That's pretty rad. Episode 100
streamers and dreamers 158 17
Unknown: craft services table eating cake and drinking
Prosecco.
Adam Curry: Even got it from from a clip. This is good.
Dave Jones: That is red. is rad. Correct? Yeah,
Adam Curry: let's see if RAD is in there. Let's see rad. Rad.
Seems like there's a lot in there. Also picks up rod Do you
know the traditional way maybe if I do it in quotes, I wonder
how well that search is. Let me see. Yeah, nothing when I do it
and in quotes nothing. How about radio and now it doesn't,
doesn't do the Boolean unfortunate Ellie just says it's
beautiful something something needs to be done with this tool
other than just, I use it. I use it all the time, particularly
when divorce acts as a dad. Now I can just go Yeah, you did. And
I boom, click click, you saw a fast I did that.
Dave Jones: That's really very
Adam Curry: impressive is very, very impressive. And firstly, it
needs a domain names to even be first of all these domain name.
It's just it's it's fantastic. It's a great tool.
Dave Jones: I found Okay, so I found this the so we have we
have phase six here. And we've got a few tags, I think we need
to start to coalesce around what what we think is going to get to
has a chance to make it in there.
Adam Curry: Okay, what was the
Dave Jones: list? There is? Value see the secret message.
There's the state tag, which I'm sure Daniel has a comment about
the name of that. The state tag is just some way to identify
where weather this some things about this feed that don't
really fit into other categories. So things like is it
free? Is it premium? That kind of that kind of thing? As it is
a paid for feed? Let's see what the let's see what I've got in
there already. Yeah, so is it? Is it true? Is this under a
trial? Is the podcast on hiatus? Is it a subscription only? Is
it? Is it an under a trial period by the published by the
hosting platform, sort of some stuff about the feed that you
might want to know. But it's you could group them together. And
this may not be a great way to do it. I'm just I just threw
this out there for comment, then you have John Spurlock's events.
Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Well, that really needs some
work the events tag.
Dave Jones: It's got a lot of commentary on it right here.
Okay. And, and I feel like we need to start trying to decide
whether or not that can actually get get refined to in a way that
everybody's happy with to get into Phase six. The C D has
guests, James grillin. proposed a tag. There's just a simple
Boolean tag. Patek podcast co lon has guests, yes or no,
right. And it's just, it's just what it says on the box. A lot
of people seem to like this idea.
Adam Curry: Yeah, sounds good. That sounds good to me.
Dave Jones: My first thought when I saw it was math. And then
like, and then I thought about it. And I'm like, you know, that
actually is pretty good idea. There's really not another way
to get that. And a lot of these tags are about it seems like in
phase six, there's a lot of stuff around just giving
information that is not, maybe it's not necessary, it's not
critical to the show. But it's helpful to have Dara say,
discovery. Like, I can see this feeding. So these fall under a
category to me of, of bits of information that you as the
podcaster may want to let other let the world know. It's it's
not. It's sort of like, like, like the person tag, or the
location tag, it's it's just, I can put this into my show, I can
mark this in my show at my hosting company that gives a
signal to the world about what they can expect to find in my
show. I found those sorts of things to be valuable, because,
you know, some people just don't, they don't like interview
shows. They're just not that like, it's I'm never gonna
listen to an interview show. I don't really listen to hardly
any interview shows. I guess it's just not my thing. And so
if it's a show that has guests, I'm probably not gonna listen to
it. And I can see that being just more you know, ways to let
the universe know about what are the sort of the framework of
what your show is? Again, not not critical, but helpful. Um,
hold
Adam Curry: on one second. Let me let me tell you, like, let me
test this.
Dave Jones: My first thought when I saw it was math
Adam Curry: They go long live the ISO bought
Dave Jones: the ISO but thought I said, Man, they thought that
was the most the right way to say, man.
Adam Curry: Doesn't matter. I'm still loving it.
Dave Jones: And the remote item tag, I really think out of the
whole batch, the remote item tag is the one I want to get in
there the most.
Adam Curry: I'm with you on that. I like that idea.
Dave Jones: I think if nothing else, we need to get the remote
item tag in there. Events. To me, it goes in this order remote
item events. And then there's list mediums. And I think those
list mediums need to go in there as well.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. Because we need we
need. We need a lot. We need something for that. I'm looking
at the music side project.com. And the search is just not
music. The search populates with everything. It doesn't. Yeah,
that's inherently not right. And I think that, I don't know,
maybe if you just search for any term in them, that you think
would be music, I get podcast.
Dave Jones: Oh, what if you search for podcasting today? No,
yeah, you get a podcast. That's not That's not the way I think
it should be. No, he intended that.
Adam Curry: Is there a way to only search for music?
Dave Jones: That I thought that's what it would do? Yeah.
But
Adam Curry: how do we have an API endpoint?
Unknown: I thought we did.
Adam Curry: Maybe not. Yikes. Maybe we do. Here's another
question. Is wavelike Tada. We
Dave Jones: do we do, don't we?
Adam Curry: I don't know. I'm not in charge of that.
Dave Jones: Wave. Wave like is not pod pinging? They're not no
Adam Curry: but they but they are adding stuff to the to the
index.
Dave Jones: Hmm Yeah, well, we're Yeah, we're picking it up.
Okay. They submit Yeah. That their Gosh, net now you know
what now I feel caught off guard because they may be pod paying
me who runs this
Adam Curry: a I don't know who runs anything who runs the show
here?
Dave Jones: Podcast? No idea. Wow. I have no idea what
anything. That's good. This is good. Good question. I'm
literally ever saw Michael ever wave like a potty.
Adam Curry: That's so funny. That's so funny.
Dave Jones: I see. No. I see no pod paying that I've ever sent
to Mike. I think he's just submitting. All right.
Adam Curry: Because I'm super pumped. And we're going to have
these guys on pretty soon, right?
Dave Jones: Yeah, the after we after we screwed them. After I
screwed them over. We're
Adam Curry: gonna have on eventually. Right. We'll fix
that. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Okay. Yeah, I am kind of glad that they did. I
screwed that up. And they didn't show up.
Adam Curry: And that would have been even worse. Yeah. Would
have been worse. We had sorry, by the way we
Dave Jones: understand Adam,
Adam Curry: so I was just Yeah, right. Well, I switched to a
different a different internet connection. That worked. Okay.
But the amount of people who said hey, I'm available, I can
do it like Sam Sethi like hey, I can do I can jump on right now.
I couldn't do anything that Dave can do. I'm like, no.
Dave Jones: Let's see how it is. Sam you can be okay. Exactly.
You know, my back.
Adam Curry: And I'm like, No, this is not gonna happen. That's
not ever gonna happen. This is the show.
Dave Jones: Hey, James Sam's ever ever out of town? Give me a
call
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's what your for your friends as well.
The duty you read in
Dave Jones: the back. So that's right.
Adam Curry: You got thanks for people I do have. I do have
another small item that I'm not quite sure. I just want to bring
it up. Because, you know, I've been looking at noster I've been
on noster I have a you know, my key is there whatever. I go on
from time to time. And I'm sensing hostility. I don't like
it. And I'll tell you what it is. It goes like this.
Podcasting to point out value for value stocks, everything
should be zaps and wishes okay, because you know, like whatever
people can say whatever they want, because now this
Dave Jones: thing they you just said is this a tone that you're
picking up? Or is this something that was actually said?
Adam Curry: No, it was said it was said that way? There was
there was a thread? Yeah, I mean, of course I am
interpreting the actual tone of voice, which is what I
translated to appropriately. Yes, yes. And of course, Oscar
over the fountain immediately makes zapping available I'm on
fountain, to the fountain wallet. And I'm, I'm just not
feeling good about this. I'm not sure what it is, other than it
feels like Ellen, Ellen URL mafia all over again. You know,
like Henry, there was even a thread like, you know, noster
should replace RSS feeds or whatever. There's all kinds of
stuff and and I'm just like, I'm not worried about any of that.
But I want to be able to harness the the excitement over zaps. If
there's a valid place for that in, in podcasting value for
value streaming stuff, I just don't see it. And it's kind of
bugged me.
Dave Jones: I mean, it's been irritating me too. And it's so
this, I saw the RSS thing. There's this cult, this,
Adam Curry: who used to use the C word C word you may use cult?
No.
Dave Jones: Maybe Maybe I started to say culture. Oh,
cool. Maybe called is a root word of culture is called. It is
a twofer. I get them both. Yes. Right. So there's this, there's
this sort of like, I feel like there's a I've been spending
time on nostra to, to, I need to understand this thing and what
and what's happening over there? And what's being said, and I
just want I don't like, don't like, there being all this
motion. And I don't understand what's happening.
Adam Curry: Yeah, there you go. That's exactly it. Yeah, it's
like,
Dave Jones: it's like this, like a bunch of loud things, driving
by your house, you know, for 15 minutes, eventually, you're
gonna get out and look out the window. So this spending time to
me, I feel like there is this culture of the sugar daddy
culture in Austria, and I think it comes from Dorsey the fact
that that Dorsey is bankrolling a bunch of stuff over there.
Yeah. Agree. And that that's where you get this sort of like,
I'm going to pay a bounty of, of a million sets, if somebody
makes RSS feeds on noster. It's like, why this is, it's just a
dumb idea. To me, it's the whole it's the it's just dumb. I mean,
there are, so you're going to ingest an RSS feed, and then
post it on noster. Like, what is it? What's the point? And I
don't even know, I just don't understand this. And we've
already we already went down this road. That is, I think
people, people in the not in the Ellen URL nostra group may not
understand that we've already thought a lot of this stuff
through. Yeah, we've fought the battle to get some to get this
stuff the way that it operates now, and that is, you, you it is
not the right solution to force some to force the listener to
create an invoice every time they want to pay you. It's key
send is much as much as people may not like he said it is the
right answer to this problem. And being able to, and there
should not have to be any name resolution, that putting a a
node ID into a feed with key send is the lamest and meanest
solution. And it solves this problem perfectly. The app
doesn't have to do hardly any work at all. It just, it just
looks at the node ID and boom, it's done. You don't have to do
all this crazy Ellen, your LP. Look at your nip 50 sevens. And
all this guy's like, you got to do all that. And so that's 10
splits in their feed. I mean, look at Think about how hard
that is for the app.
Adam Curry: How about this? Is there a way to make a bridge so
people if they're really want to send a zap, they can zap a
podcast and it hits the bridge, and that splits it into keys.
And that's something Brian of London would build, by the way.
It's one of those Rube Goldberg things.
Dave Jones: I'm just I'm just not interested. Okay. I'm not
interested in the, to me. Here's not noster has a people that I
respect like Alex Gleason have some interest in noster. And so
I'm not going to say that it's a pile of crap. But I just feel
like the use cases they're trying to put it to my opinion
is the the social media use case was the worst.
Adam Curry: It's probably the worst one they could have used.
I totally agree.
Dave Jones: It should have been something it could have should
have come out of the gate with a different use case. And because
this this thing is just not compelling to me. I get on my
app And I don't want to be like Debbie downer, like, beat this
thing down. Because I don't want people doing that to the early
work of of what we're doing here either things that we're running
with scissors, they're running with scissors. I want to be
fair. But it's just I don't see the point of a lot of this. A
lot of these use cases as the way they're being implemented
because you have the I get on my noster app. I mean, I forget
what the Damas and half the time I've got, I get on there, I
start to scroll my timeline, and then things begin are popping
up. Like after the fact, like, there were five seconds
Adam Curry: the relay start to kick in.
Dave Jones: And then and then I don't know where I'm at in my
timeline anymore, and no. Okay, so let's scroll back up to the
top, scroll by start start again. And then people's names
are showing up as just pub keys and generic avatars. They're
just permanent that way. And then, and I tap on, then it does
the name resolution to find out who they are. It's just not a
great experience
Adam Curry: I'm seeing in the chat room or head saying no, no,
no, it's easy to do. It took less than a weekend to add Ellen
Euro fall back. If Kishen fails, the guys that get Alby are
suggesting it if we need to stop something, I need you to say it
now. Why exactly is it not? Is it too too much overhead for
apps to do this.
Dave Jones: So So if if you have if you have to force breeze to
on a show like ours, which which has nine splits, if you have to
force breeze, to do an Ellen URL p resolution nine times every
minute, and boosts on top of that. That's not That's not just
a lot of a lot of load on the server. Imagine if you have 100
listeners at all listening to your podcast at the same time,
which is where we want this thing to be Yeah, imagine,
imagine no agenda. You have Oh goodness. 700 people listening
live at the same time. 2000
Adam Curry: Let's make it 2000. Again,
Dave Jones: let's say 2000 people listening live on breeze.
Every one of those breeze apps is sending a streaming payment
once a minute and having to do pretend potentially nine or 10 l
in your LP invoice generations and look up processes through
nip 57. That's a that's called a DDoS attack.
Adam Curry: Thank you. That's exactly that's exactly what it
would be. Yeah, it's just not both ends. By the way. You'd be
dossing your own app,
Dave Jones: your is too much overhead. You can't you can't do
that. And the nature of the streaming payments is is
critical booster great booster grams are awesome. But the
streaming per minute payments, that's where the lifeblood of
the future lightening value for value economy comes from,
because that is how people I forget to boost it. And I'm
listening to the show. But I always know that that 100 SATs
minute that I selected, that's always going to be ping, ping,
ping, ping ping, right. And I don't have to, I don't have to
remember in people, once a minute you the podcasters
looking at their dashboard is Ping, ping ping to get income
coming in. And then also it's
Adam Curry: okay, that's a good point. People who who want to
integrate and this arrowhead is not going to stop who thinks
zapping is important, that's great. But your your fucking
everybody else because you can't do splits. You're not going to
do that no one's going to be zapping nine different times and
nine different values. So you're circumventing the whole process.
And I would I would also encourage other apps and
services to consider that you're really undermining it.
Dave Jones: You're podcasting is not social media. They're
correct.
Adam Curry: And I love zapping as as a replacement for like I
think that's a great idea. It's fantastic to I mean, and that's
where it's appropriate. Makes a lot of and I liked it that it's
getting people into the into the habit of returning some value
for something I like that a lot. I really do. But stay in your
lane, because it's an it's not a we put a lot of work into the
whole infrastructure. And you know, when I hear the get Alby
and everyone wants to do this, I think they're riding a train and
they're screwing themselves and other people with it.
Dave Jones: I agree to and I think that I fully understand
what you're saying. I think you're right. The zapping is a
great mechanic for returning value for a value for value ecos
system in general, it makes sense. The way that the way that
noster it the social media aspect of nostrils designed the
zapping makes sense. That's Yes, podcasting. They're not the
same. keep them separate. This just doesn't make sense for
podcasting. We've, we've, we've been through this we've done
this is where two and a half years into this noster is brand
new. This is not the same thing.
Adam Curry: Yeah, and the main thing, and this is what I want
to say to our head who's saying no, it's the same as a boost.
No, it's not. Because we have a split flow is not the same as a
boost. I'm just I, you know, as a wallet provider get Alby makes
total sense. They can do whatever they want, you know,
they want to do Aaron, what is the what is the API payment
thing? Was LSAT? Yeah, they there'll be many applications
for LSAT. Absolutely. Fountain, questionable. So I'm just saying
if you want to break the system by by having people circumvent
the splits. Have at it, but you're going to lose out in the
long run in the long run.
Dave Jones: I think there's a general issue here where this
has always been the word and I just want to be, I want to step
back and be gracious to everybody for a minute. I think
there is a a, there's always been within this project. There
have been Bitcoiners coming to podcasting and podcasting coming
to Bitcoin. Yeah. And so the those there's a natural sort of
missing a natural, a natural, like a Venn diagram. And they
overlap in the middle, but there's a lot of places they
don't. So there's there's going to be a natural tendency for one
side to do things one way the other side to do things the
other way. And in podcasting 2.0 We have to make we have to be in
the middle of that of that Venn diagram and make those things
mesh. Yeah, because the Bitcoin people are gonna see things one
way and be like, Yeah, let's do that. To me, this is the
fundamental mistake of of, of forcing alien URL. Elon, you RLP
down and down podcasting, throat, it's not gonna work
we've already thought this through. So just
Adam Curry: just know that we have looked at we have looked at
it is not necessarily going to be a great idea.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and podcasters also have ideas that don't fit
within the other side. So we have to mediate that as well. So
yeah, I think I think there's just a bit especially the bit
the Bitcoin people, because there's money involved. And what
you see it with these bounties and that kind of thing, that
they, they just want to run off and do something and it's like
you guys, you mean you can't, she's not the way it works. And
you got to slow down and get some consensus here. And think
about, think about the the industry and the audience that
you're trying to address with the technology that you're
making. If you're, if you're trying to address problems
within podcasting, or music, or other types of things, you need
to understand that industry fully before you dive in and
start building something and trying to propose a standard
standards aren't bad, but you have to at least understand what
the audience needs before you make it.
Adam Curry: I guess now, I know how Marco feels. Right? Because
I really felt like people were bullying. You know, it's like,
Nah, man, this is the way to go. This is the way it is right now.
I don't think so.
Dave Jones: Anyway, you know, I know some people did that to
Marco that I you know, we we told the people early on to
chill out and stop being that way. You know, I don't think I
think his problems over those people not not with yes, no,
Adam Curry: no, no, no, I know that. I know.
Dave Jones: He made he made a comment about standards. And you
know, we
Adam Curry: do we have a standard there's lots of
there's,
Dave Jones: I think those are gonna be the other thing I said
we we we briefly entertained calling things standards and
made
Adam Curry: by requests from from hosting companies, by the
way, it was a request to do that. And I think we even tried
to I certainly tried to pick that up and it just died on the
vine. And And honestly, I'm happy.
Dave Jones: Their specs, these are these justifications and you
can either do them or not, you don't nobody's forcing anybody
to do anything.
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. You're all podcasting. 2.0 It's
just more podcasting is not breaking anything. It's not
changing anything. It's not making a new standard. And we're
gonna we have some interesting meeting scheduled with people
who are kind of into that I'm not sure I would even be for
calling it a standard or W three C. You know, I love the way
everything works. Now. We're the boss, and everyone else can
pounce like that. I like that system I mean it's so far it's
worked out really well it's been a very open process and it's
been fantastic you know and the minute you bring you know like
official structure into it I was like oh that's gonna ruin it
Dave Jones: you can Yeah, that's right. Oh airhead says landing
addresses are no longer only Elon URL that's right because
because we booked that system initially to get key sand in
there as well so that's right I said I mean this this stuff has
been thought through
Adam Curry: Yeah. Anyway, let's take a few people as we move
towards a buck 45 here okay, we got the SIR Spencer stuff we got
blueberry 17,776 Big freedom boost sending boost pilling
karma. Tonight I will attempt giving comedian Sam Tripoli the
PC 2.0 equivalent of telling someone that 911 hijackers were
identified by the passports found at the base of the Twin
Towers. Okay, sounds great. Oh, and there's Phoenix. The better
half of a phone boy. Also 6969 SAS Thank you pod father for all
you're doing lady Phoenix and Lord phone boy the Lowe's
effect. Come for the shenanigans stay for the party. We really
appreciate you guys letting us bust in here. Eric P. P 33,333.
About an hour ago Dred Scott 5555 says Adam was really having
fun yesterday was great to witness. It was great to have
you all there as well. Dred Scott also, the only guy I'll
check it again, but the only guy ever to use the tally coin
unchained payment system that we have so proudly displayed by
request. He did send us let's see. Holy crap. drab. I see
nuts.
Dave Jones: When did he fall in the keyboard?
Adam Curry: 224,035. saps
Unknown: sock 20 is blades only Impala
Adam Curry: shouldn't add to the tally coin yesterday.
Dave Jones: JB you do too much.
Adam Curry: I really do much. And we give him we only give him
like a 5% cut on the split for chapters. Well, I do give it on
every single podcast I do. So maybe he's able to recycle some
of it. And let's see, chat F 3333. Hey, I only requested Ride
the Lightning after someone requested milkshake. Yeah,
that's right. That was for you a special milkshake. Milkshake. So
yes, chat F No. 3333 A Chris, you know 9013 You can't just go
out there do pole work whenever you want. You first have to call
up and put in a poll request. Yeah. Dred Scott boosting Dave's
poll works 5555 your poll work was outstanding. I've been told
and there's dread with a pre boost 55,555 or dread.
Dave Jones: I'm gonna start sending this back. Yeah. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah, we got your and that's another beautiful
thing. We don't need any permission to send him money.
Dave Jones: That's right. And he didn't even stop us. That's the
beautiful thing about Kison
Adam Curry: lyceum. Which of course is Martin Linda's Coke, a
replay of yesterday's Liberty boost regarding and those 2112
Regarding the song 55 million Frenchmen. And Benjamin
Bellinis. Post music tip. This is always so cryptic, happy
music. radio.com. Okay, thank you very much, Martin. Let's see
what else do I have? I think I think that's all it is. I know,
you'll of course have all of the all of the booths from
yesterday, I think I think pretty much everybody so we can
run through them pretty quick, because a lot of requests there.
So
Dave Jones: I grabbed the boosts. I didn't try to get the
boost from today or anything. I'm just gonna stick and read
the boost that I had prepared for Friday's show. Yeah, that's
probably good. Because I got everybody else. Yeah. And then
we'll sort it out later. Yeah. Well, we had a we had $200 from
Oscar Mary over fountain. Oh,
Unknown: wow. 20 is Blake on am Paula thank you, Oscar.
Dave Jones: Very kind enough always to support us monthly.
Appreciate Oscar. Thank you, brother. And we got some booster
grants. We got 22 to 22 big road ducks from Todd in Northern
Virginia. Just boosting it to eggs can't stop won't stop
Adam Curry: don't stop don't stop
Dave Jones: don't let anybody make you stop. Don't
Adam Curry: ever ever,
Dave Jones: ever mere mortals podcast. 2222 Road ducks he says
no secrets between board members spilled Buzzsprout beans Dave
Buzzsprout being Buzzsprout
Adam Curry: beans. That's about boost boost boost.
Dave Jones: I didn't know I had bus route beans
Adam Curry: must have must be something You alluded to
somewhere
Dave Jones: okay, I don't even remember I'm sorry. I don't
remember. more memorable character back again 5555
through found and he says, Congrats on getting to your
first Bitcoin meetup. Dave, Texas slim will be at the one
here in Brisbane next week. I'm super pumped on my birthday as
well. Oh, cool. I'm going to Brisbane,
Adam Curry: Brisbane, Brisbane, Brisbane, Brisbane, Brisbane,
Dave Jones: Brisbane, this was it. Yeah. Whoosh. 12498 the
fountain nappy says bye podcasting. 2.0x go podcasting
just keep it at the suggested speed.
Adam Curry: Yeah, we will go podcast
Dave Jones: close to Texas slim going all the way down to
Australia for
Adam Curry: he's doing beef initiative down under. He's
doing the same. He's been really getting a lot of attention.
Dave Jones: And he's preaching the gospel. Like to the far
flung reaches of the Earth. It was a
Adam Curry: pretty cool article about him and ABC, which is
Australian Broadcasting Corporation, M M, five M. And
they said, A man who's who's who goes by Texas limb. And we asked
him for his full name. He said that's all you need to know tax
asleep. Like you don't need to know I'm Texas slavers. My Mama
knows me by Texas. flim that's enough.
Dave Jones: Takes us asleep. But it
Adam Curry: was interesting to see because you know, of course
there was Bitcoiners there and you know, like a typical beef
initiative meetup and talking about purchasing, you know, the
beef with Bitcoin and what the Australian media but glommed on
to is, you know, this undertone up feels a lot like the
sovereign man movement, like no, no, no, no, no, I did have to do
something negative.
Dave Jones: They always do that. Yeah. Clark in 25,001 SATs
through fountain switching from Fiat cookbooks to boosting every
episode up the good work and see it the next meetup Dave, that's
my buddy.
Adam Curry: Oh, nice. He was at the Bitcoin meetup
Dave Jones: that we wrote together that's powered Oh nice.
Adam Curry: You take the flatbed you don't drive that outside
you're 15 minutes city is that the
Dave Jones: Yeah, nothing in Birmingham is 15 That's not even
you can't even do 15 minutes in so I went from contracts
13579 13 festivity now through pod versus finally time again to
listen to the podcast and boost alright, we agree on the
listening speed it somehow feels wrong to listen faster than 1x
and cut pauses boost believer Thank you 16 969 From Hey
citizen through pod verse. He says another great show fellas
when I grow up I want to be just like you too.
Adam Curry: Oh, oh how you doing booster just like us.
Dave Jones: So sweet. Mere Mortals podcast to 2222 from
found through fountain he says Bitcoin meetup update takes a
slam is awesome. And I need to analyze some of my food choices.
Also bitcoin is awesome. Go Bitcoin ing. We so I see. We had
to lead up to the meetup. Yeah. And then the
Adam Curry: actual meetup themselves. I think Slim is now
on his way to Thailand.
Dave Jones: Wow. Yeah, this world tour. Well, he
Adam Curry: he was he intended to retire to Thailand before he
kind of came out of retirement to do this beef initiative.
Because Thailand is interesting. I'm not talking Bangkok.
Although that is that is fun for some things. But more like Shang
Mei Xiang. I've been to Thailand in a documentary. They're really
nice, really nice people. A very just sweet population very
giving very open. They love their royal family, you know, so
they're, they're very, they're nationalists. Food is fantastic.
It's cheap, cheap to live there. It's, I understand you, the Thai
culture is really wonderful.
Dave Jones: I've got a friend of a friend who lived in Thailand
as a teacher for gosh, seven or eight years. And every time he
came back to the US, he was like, Oh, my God, things are so
expensive here. He said it was very cheap there. Lady said you
could you could have a big meal with five of your buddies Jen.
You know, it would cost you as much as like a meal for two here
Adam Curry: unless you go to the no hands restaurant in Bangkok,
which is a whole nother story. Okay, you know what, you know
what the no hands restaurant is so so so the food is in a table
is kind of like it's a round table. And there's to bench
seats comfortable, you know, pillows and everything. So you
and your friends sit near the food and behind you will be your
servant. Who then who then will get your food prepared and feed
it to you?
Dave Jones: Whoa,
Adam Curry: typically naked. Oh, it's that kind of it was a long
time ago. But it was a documentary. Funny enough
Dave Jones: is it sounds like a plot of a movie is what it
sounds like. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah, that's when you know well if you remember
faces of death they actually don't remember that the monkey
head sticking out and they chop the head off and they ate the
brains from the live monkey remember that?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, that was VHS tape.
Adam Curry: 15/50 generation VHS tape. Exactly.
Dave Jones: I was convinced that was real. Like this is all real
man. This was great Yale, our buddy yell from Vienna. sent us
155,555 sets
Unknown: Sakala Dias Blaze on am Paula. Thank you. Thank you.
Dave Jones: He says hey, gents, thank you for your courage from
Vienna but disgusting native ad with Austrian finance journaux
Nico jilts. We've got a new 2.0 enabled podcast using substack
fix the money.net with interviews, prophecy tutorials,
and commentary from the Bitcoin lobbying world. Thank you both
for your encouragement and patience in GitHub and Mastodon
mercy and Dunker Nice. Thank you yo, appreciate it. 6969 from a
citizen to pod verse he says. Do you think sites like no agenda
social.com will have a way to receive boost the way Podcasts
can.
Adam Curry: I don't see why. Well how about zaps?
Dave Jones: daps Yeah, yeah, that's That's great. There
again. That's that's the thing zaps find for social media. It's
slow motion. It's it's fine. Yeah. Not good for podcasts. No.
Yes. Don't don't put boosts into your into your social. Don't put
yourselves into podcasting. Matthew says
Adam Curry: I'm with you all add my two cents right to it.
Dave Jones: Another another 6969 from Hey, citizens, he says a
feature request for the podcast apps, streaming sets using the
DeVore act multiplier. You listen at one and a half speed
you stream one and a half.
Adam Curry: I agree with that. I think that's the way to go. This
is a great idea. Now you're cooking.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you pay for it. Yeah, boy logs and it's
100,000 SAS through pod verse. He says thanks for all your hard
work. I'm showing my partner how V for V works by sending this
one now. Thank you. Oh, cool. 100,000 sets.
Adam Curry: Wow, you know what you get for that? Bolo.
Unknown: Sakala 20 is Blaze on I am Paula
Dave Jones: Ameet to SC 32,023 cents Palindrome there 3202335
vs. Podcasting live from floss conference in Tel Aviv. A P dot
C A P dot a hammock or H A. Okay, I'm gonna have to read
this as a website. A P dot h amakor.org. dot i l go
podcasting.
Adam Curry: Okay, go podcast.
Dave Jones: Thank you. Todd Cochran. 150,420 sets
Unknown: off 20 is Blaze ohm am Paula.
Dave Jones: He's you're showing off now. 50% of what was said on
the last show was seriously deer in the headlights discuss. What
did we say?
Adam Curry: I don't know all about about I don't know. That
all he said is not only wrote
Dave Jones: now he says growth in podcasting is flat as a
pancake. And based on calls. I've been having podcasting
companies are in trouble. That said best time ever to be a
podcaster as audience numbers are growing amongst fewer shows,
but go podcasting?
Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm with you on that. Okay, when he says mean
when he says flat? I mean, that's the growth of the
companies I guess.
Dave Jones: I guess. I don't know. Maybe he just means the
number of the number of new shows outside of the free.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, that's a bit yeah. New customers for
podcast hosts. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're gonna have churn.
You're gonna have people leaving you need to get new people in. I
don't know. I always hear Buzzsprout always has another
5000 people every week.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it must. It must be. If it's like yeah, I
guess they're tied together. I mean, you're it's a beautiful
thing. Because you're, there's that direct your customer,
you're the growth of your company is the growth of your
customer. There's funny money in between. Exactly. It's a very
natural thing. Thank you, Todd. Appreciate it. I don't even
remember what we said at the beginning of this show, much
less last year.
Adam Curry: We talked about our own lives of ourselves as usual
as you do on a podcast. Let's talk about herself.
Dave Jones: lyceum. 1776 He says Adam and Dave, I listened to
Sophie Tucker singing 50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong. After
reading Benjamin Bellamy's blog, yeah,
Adam Curry: like I just read that one. I think a religious
one we had Yeah, we had that one.
Dave Jones: Okay, yep. All right, we got it. Well,
chemistry bloggers.
Adam Curry: I was gonna say I was waiting for him. Where is
he?
Dave Jones: Dignified, Dave and abiding Adam. Building a medium
that provides the environment for humanity to coalesce around
since making broadcasters is no easy feat if you ever want to
take a load off, after all that digital heavy lifting, kick back
with the AI doc cooking podcast, inspired by the best
infotainment purveyors in the realm and hosted by Kentish rock
and Rolla, Gregory Forman, who always keeps it three by four,
yo CSB whoosh
Adam Curry: moves. Thank you CSB. He's always there, man. You
can count on him. He's very consistent.
Dave Jones: They're getting more and more complex every time
Adam Curry: now. It's okay. We'll take it we appreciate we
we appreciate everyone who has been boosting us now you have
some monthlies before we close out the segment. Yeah.
Dave Jones: I've got I've got a Michael Kimmerer and $5.33 I've
got a drip Scott at $15 The Unstoppable drip Scott Lesley
Martin it $2 Christopher Raymer $10 Aaron Renaud $5 Pedro gun
calvess $5 Scott Jalbert $12 Chad Pharoah 12 $20.22 Martin
Linda scope $1 and Mark Graham $1. And that's our group.
Adam Curry: And thank you all so much for delivering the value.
It is really appreciated, especially yesterday show but
also everyone who showed up today and in the chat room that
has been contributing if you want to support podcasting 2.0
the podcast and of course, the index, go to podcast index.org.
Scroll down to the bottom you'll see two red donate buttons. One
is for your Fiat fund coupons via PayPal, and the other one is
that tally coin that only Dred Scott uses. But of course we'd
love for you to try a modern podcast app works with all your
old podcast, no problem, you can export from Apple export from
any podcast, including overcast whatever it is, even from one of
the newer podcast apps, you can try them all. Export your OPML
file or your podcasts, whatever it's called. It's different per
app, and just import it into the new one. And you got Presto
Wallah. You've got like a rabbit out of a hat. You've got all of
your subscriptions right there. And you can now actually
purchase little bits of Bitcoin Satoshis in think for apps we
have breeze we have fountain we have pod verse. What am I
forgetting here? I know I'm forgetting something. Dave
helped me. What the Where you can you can buy SATs in Fountain
pod verse. Anything with get Alby I guess? breeze to freeze?
First one, I'm sure there's a fourth one you can buy by SATs
right through Moon pay right in the app? I don't remember that.
I you know, we need to we need to do Apps page. Yeah, I'm
drawing a blank. I don't think there's a there's not a fourth.
There's no. There's no step four.
Dave Jones: I don't know what you may be. I think I know what
you're talking about. Oh, no, I think I know what you're talking
about. I don't? Yeah. It's not out yet.
Adam Curry: What am I talking about? I mean, I'm not Todd
Cochran. I don't have secrets.
Dave Jones: Because I can't Well, I can't think of anything
else that is
Adam Curry: it doesn't matter. Just go ahead and figure it out.
Go to new podcast apps.com and get some things you can boost us
you can join in the fun clearly. It's a lot of fun, because you
get your name mentioned a lot in your in your message read. And
you get to have standing amongst everybody else in the listening
audience. We appreciate that. Thank you for your thinking. I'm
not thinking your desire. We've received exactly zero SATs from
Zion ever. But he raised $6 million. Yeah, there you go.
There you go. That's how it goes. I wouldn't want that. That
albatross around my neck. No way. No, not at all. Hi,
brother. 8:14pm. It's been a late one. I'm going to finish
this up. Get everything out. Get it going. Roll it out. So
everyone can enjoy that this evening or tomorrow morning
before no agenda. Just stick it in, stick it into your into your
Sunday morning. And hopefully everything stays up where you
are and you don't have to go back to the office. You're gonna
have a nice day off tomorrow.
Dave Jones: I hope everything stays up where you are.
Adam Curry: I'm gonna see if we're gonna get back and keep it
say enough. That's alright buddy. That'll do it. Thanks for
joining. Is this late night boardroom meeting where we get a
little punchy. We'll be back next Friday right here
podcasting 2.0
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.org For more information podcast.
Dave Jones: Hey, James Sam's out of town give me a call.