Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0 for March 31 2023, episode 127
fortress of freedom Hello everybody, welcome once again to
your board meeting of podcasting 2.0 We've always got better
bagels and big tech in our boardroom, the latest
developments, podcast index.org to namespace and and of course,
all the grubby grimy details of podcast index dot social. I'm
Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and
Alabama the man who will turn your issue into a discussion.
Say hello to my friend on the other end ladies and gentlemen,
Mr. De Jones.
Dave Jones: I feel ill equipped to talk about the latest in
recent and whatever else you said the developments in the
pocket and podcasting. I've been going. I've been out of town.
Adam Curry: Well, I was out of town too. But I was not.
Dave Jones: I was no excuse.
Adam Curry: Exactly Shut up, man. There's no excuse.
Dave Jones: Oh, I get home and promptly. We get home Wednesday
night. Yeah, everything was fun. Yeah. Woke. Woke up. Felt fun
yesterday morning. Yeah. But by lunchtime by lunchtime, Tiny Tim
in full effect. I had a
Adam Curry: really
Dave Jones: hard time in spring months. This is
Adam Curry: getting ridiculous. Are you better now? Or is it
still full on?
Dave Jones: No, I had a fever again today as
Unknown: what is wrong with you, man? I don't know.
Adam Curry: laughing I mean, I'm laughing I'm of course I'm not
really happy about it. But I have to laugh. It was like what
is going on with my man here? Well, I have
Dave Jones: to get I have to laugh to you. Because this is
absurd at this point. It is. It is a bit absurd. It's just not
even talking about anymore and just copying Advil and moving on
with my will. Have
Adam Curry: you been taking your beef milkshake?
Dave Jones: Yeah, every day. Well, I did not on the road. Not
when that's maybe the problem.
Adam Curry: There you go. You need to always bring your your
beef milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.
Dave Jones: Emergency shake. I didn't have it with me.
Adam Curry: Alright, so I was on vacation. While kind of a work
vacation. I still did to no agenda shows.
Dave Jones: Because I did a great, by the way, send a great,
no, thank
Adam Curry: you. You know, some people said if you hadn't said
you're on vacation, they wouldn't have known it. They
would have known I was in a different place. No, I wouldn't
Dave Jones: have the audio quality was what you would
expect. Top notch. Yeah, well,
Adam Curry: it's the road caster, man, if I if I could
have built that thing myself, I would have
Dave Jones: got the rain was fun to turn down for the first show.
Adam Curry: Could not could not cover that one up. I was some
that was some. That's what you get in, in the Caribbean. And
you know, as always, you know, we're, you know, we're there for
exactly a week. And of course, I was basically working, you know,
Tina, when we were laying out by the beach. You know, Tina is
reading on my phone, you know, doing emails and you know, just
collecting all the stuff I need. And as always, you're like, you
know, we could live here, you know? You always do. Yeah, we
could live here. We could live on this. I could live in
Jamaica. No problem, man. We couldn't live here. You always
go through that cycle. Like, oh, this is so great here. You know,
you don't think you totally could? Yeah, you don't but you
don't think about the problems that exist in Ireland. Like
there's there's enough problems. They got problems there.
Dave Jones: Though. We do that to you because we were in we
were in Charleston, South Carolina.
Adam Curry: Oh, which eautiful Have you been there before?
Dave Jones: Never been never been to Charleston. We've we've
been to Savannah, which is like the people in Charleston
probably hate hearing the phrase this stuff does look a lot a lot
like Savannah. And the people in Savannah probably hate hearing
it in reverse. But they really are so similar. I mean, they're
very close to each other and they look a lot like that. Ya
know, we had a good time and it was it's funny because
Charleston is trusted affiliate very wealthy play.
Adam Curry: Oh, didn't historically even that way.
Dave Jones: They know a lot of poor folks in Charleston and I
can
Adam Curry: see Dame Jennifer's eyes rolling right now. You know
she pretty much runs Charleston.
Dave Jones: Forgot Dame Jennifer was in Charleston. She
Adam Curry: would have hooked you up bro. I know she runs the
show there. She she really she's the queen of Charleston.
Dave Jones: This this is a complete faux pas on my part.
Hey, this this is like I dropped the ball really
Adam Curry: is. Oh my goodness. Well, she'll show she'll beat
you out. I'm
Dave Jones: sure that's fine. No. Bring it.
Adam Curry: Speaking of Dame Jennifer. Oh. Oh. What is
speaking of Dame Jennifer so I was listening to the latest
audacity to podcast Daniel J. Lewis, his podcast which he
which he click Beatty titled? micro micro payments. Is it
worth it?
Dave Jones: Yeah, but it goes into SCO gazing this Yeah,
Adam Curry: so So he, of course totally spoiled it says hand
hand Adam, you'll love it. Like, okay, and I listen, it's 30
minutes I listened to this thing. And, and I'm just I'm
jumping up and down. I'm like, every single thing we've wanted
to talk about when it comes to value for value in podcasting.
2.0 is in here, right down to this handy shortcut, which is if
you want to know how much bitcoin is worth, all you have
to do is say, whatever the number is, let's say it's
28,000. Right now. That's 28,000. pennies. 1000 SATs is
28,000 pennies, ie. No, I messed it up already.
Dave Jones: This is great. I can't wait to catch this.
Adam Curry: 1000 SATs is 28 pennies. There we go. That's
okay. That's how you got to look at and it's like, oh, okay, that
makes a lot of sense. So but if it's 30, it's $30,000 1000 sites
is 30 pennies. And like, oh, that kind of is handy to
remember. I like this. But he explains everything right? I
mean, and when I thought I was not going to talk about the
loop, you know, the feet, he had it all in there. There's maybe a
few things that went in a little little deeper than necessary.
And I immediately first of all, I gave him a huge striper boost
77,777 No. And I and I immediately ping Dame Jennifer,
I said, This is it. Can you do this? Can I said we have a
little budget podcast index. We'll pay you a little bit of
money to do this. Because it's not it's not just a simple job.
Can you make a video this is the explainer video for value for
value. And so she'll have that done in the next week or week or
two, whatever. She's she's going to really sit down and do it
like a real job.
Dave Jones: Oh, like some but like, I mean, like somes
actually in the works, like Yes and actually do so yeah,
Adam Curry: this is the thing that we've been talking about,
for forever, like, Oh, if we could only explain how it
worked, people would understand it that much better and damage.
If we if we had sat in it actually we have if we had sat
down and said, Alright, I'm going to write the script. This
is what I was going to be we never and even Daniel's read was
good as we never would have been able to accomplish this. So I
Dave Jones: like as a good player. He's a good pocket
podcaster. He's
Adam Curry: excellent podcaster. And he really, really, really
nailed it right down to the numerology, all of it. So I
mean, there could even be a short edit and longer version. I
don't know. So Dame Jennifer's on it. And I think she can't
start until this weekend or Monday, because she had no
actual work to do. But I said, we want to hire you for that. I
hope you don't mind. I know that's it's a personal personal
privilege and just said we want to hire you for this job. And
and of course, we'll also we will compensate Daniel J. Lewis,
one way or the other. We've seen sexual favors, obviously.
Dave Jones: I'm sure he's looking forward to that.
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, he's jumping up and down. Now.
Dave Jones: He's going to resend that episode. This. Oh, what is
this going to be? I mean, what is she? What is she creating?
Adam Curry: Well, you know, her no agenda videos and no agenda
animated videos that that tool that she uses. She's going to do
use that I guess that's her tool. She knows.
Dave Jones: But you don't actually know that she's going
to use that she could ever call car blog.
Adam Curry: Carte Blanche is exactly the idea. Okay, carte
blanche on a crisp. She's She's, she's so creative.
Dave Jones: Well, this is what this is what Melissa says when
people she's currently working on the on an installation for to
go in the city of Birmingham. Wow,
Adam Curry: she she went a long way since last time. We talked
about her art. Installation for the city of Birmingham. Yes.
Dave Jones: No, she's already got one that she did a few years
ago. That's, that's permanent. So
Adam Curry: I remember the I remember panicle gardens. I do
remember that. Yeah. So
Dave Jones: she now they they love that one so much. They want
her to do want. She's doing one for near the museum near the
Museum of Art. And so she is what she said like the there's
somebody that was involved in it. It was trying to like tell
her exactly what to do. No, no work that doesn't work this way.
Doesn't work that way. And her her her line that she uses all
the time is I'm not going to be your hand. You know, it's like,
Unknown: but yeah.
Dave Jones: You don't hire me to be your hands. You hire me to do
to be creative
Adam Curry: mind. Yes, exactly. To do your thing. Oh, well, this
will be interesting. That's exactly how I view I'm like,
this is this. Jennifer knows, she knows she knows how to do
it. And we've talked about this at nauseam we've said yeah, if
only people could see the flow and they understood it. And as
the voice over which it of course was just an episode, but
when you hear Daniel J do it, it's like, you know, he's it's
like he's just reading a script so casually. So Oh good. So I'm
jacked jazz and jacked at the same time. I really am happy
about that. It's gonna be a really it'll be great. We're lit
right now, of course, live. And it was interesting because I
knew that we were going to be late you had a work thing. So we
knew that we were going to be late for this episode. And I
diligently tweeted and tweeted it out and then who was it
someone was really funny about it because Martin good old pod
pod friend Martin. He he sent me a message on no agenda social by
me podcast index dot social. And he said he had a little
screenshot. When he says Dave and Adam, I don't know when to
tune in for the Live episode, because it still have the
latest, you know, the the last lit tag for the pending live
show, March news 30. Priority and what it was for March 17.
And then Harvey, a hard hat. He says, Oh, if only there was some
kind of way to announce the panting schedule of the next
show.
Dave Jones: Smart. So
Adam Curry: he did do some emojis. So true. Yeah. And of
course, I actually took my My Bride out on a date. We had a,
we had a lunch together and like, Oh, crap, hold on a
second, baby. I'm so sorry. I did. I did. I did. But she so
she said
Dave Jones: what relationship killer?
Adam Curry: But you have to understand the keeper. What are
you doing? I said, I need to update the schedule change
through the lit tag. She's like, Oh, of course. Go ahead.
Unknown: My Bride.
Dave Jones: That's why she's known as the keeper.
Adam Curry: She's so good. So yeah. And I did it on my phone.
It worked out pretty good. That was good.
Dave Jones: And my phone had you do it on your phone
Adam Curry: through sovereign feet.
Dave Jones: So you made that change on sovereign? This? Okay,
this makes sense. Because you made the change in sovereign
feeds in the new
Adam Curry: and we have the webhook webhook. We haven't.
Yeah, exactly. How cool is that? Went? Well, I hooked it and it
was done. I did. You know, of course, the web hook does the
pod pings are updated automatically. But
Dave Jones: this is the problem. This is the problem with with
all the with all the stuff that we have going on a consistent
basis. You forget what you've done and what you haven't done.
Like, like, you know what I mean? Like?
Adam Curry: FTP, the RSS was
Dave Jones: like, Man, did you bring out a laptop on the lunch
date? Man, that's, that is a killer. That is bad.
Adam Curry: No, no, no. And so, and I bring this up, because I
just wanted to say that, you know, every day, we get a, like
a breakdown, you and I get a breakdown of transactions or the
stuff that we know the stuff that's basically on the V for V
stats page. So yeah, what you put in those beautiful graphs,
and so we get kind of daily report. And I just want to
report that it's really it's been so beautiful to watch.
This, of course, is really only reflections of what people are
doing with value for value in streaming payments. And hands
down without a doubt. Fountain is so off to the races with this
stuff. I mean, there's SATs flying all over the place on
that thing. And the more I've engaged in what is happening,
the more I love how it works. And even with carrying the
keeper our show, we often get a booster gram from someone who
says, Hey, I earned all these SATs. unfound unfounded and and
I'm boosting him to you. It's really lovely. You know, you
have they have the top 50 of which they publish the top 10.
And now we've even got living up in a down world from our pastor,
Pastor Jimmy and his wife who have totally written off the
Korean the keeper format. And and they're now they're now in
the top 10 From time to time. And it's the engagement is
unbelievable. In fact, the engagement is usually about 10
times more than than the number two. And in fact, I will do it
by transaction. So the number of transactions is very, very high
on fountain. But what's super interesting is that pod verse
who really have the lit stuff down, Mitch is real and he spent
a lot of time on the notifications and how it works
and it's it's slick, it really works. In fact, I probably use
pod verse more often because of it. Because I'll be sitting
somewhere being our new media show. I gotta go send some
stupid to Todd Hold on a second. I gotta I gotta tune in. So,
Satoshi wise, amount wise, they often knock it out of the park
on pod verse off the chart, not even close. Yes, because I mean
it's two different things, right. It's two total different
ways of using the value from Are you system but man in
combination with live? It's beautiful and I listened to? I'm
not sure if how they how Darren O'Neil does his live show? I'm
not sure if he's doing it through a feed or I don't know
exactly. But I hear him getting 50,000 Sad boosts I mean, just
consistently. And even curio caster is number three even
though you know it's a web app and doesn't have doesn't have a
notification system, but people use that for the for the live
for the live shows. It's it's it's mind blowing how two
different concepts work so well.
Dave Jones: I think what you said may have gotten lost. Let
me let me
Adam Curry: let me read. This is why there's two of us.
Dave Jones: Let me try to clarify what you're saying is
that fountain is always at the top. Yeah. On a day to day
basis. But on the budget. As far as SATs and transactions use,
yeah. Yeah. But on the day on the live shows for the for the
for the Live episode, pod verse is way above fountain on on on
SATs. Yeah, the transaction count is low. But the set amount
is high. Exactly. And that that shows the power of live Yes.
Shows Yes. But you really get a different. It's some you get a
different, it's different people. Because people that
listen live, don't go back. And typically I mean, so I'm sure
some do. But typically people that listen live, don't go back
and listen to the show. Afterwards, probably not an
audience.
Adam Curry: But it's also to complete. This is what I've
always hoped for. It's two completely different apps. Both
podcasts. Yeah. Both work fine with podcasts. But Fountain has
this massive interaction engagement type thing. It's very
sticky. And it was beauty has been beautiful to see. My friend
Jimmy and his wife start their show, really with no knowledge.
I mean, just, I mean, he's a musician he understands. So he
didn't he was afraid of creating the show. didn't quite know how
to use it. I hooked him up with rss.com You know, where all of a
sudden transcript showed up automatically the split showed
up. So all that stuff really started and he got it right
away. But he sees his community on fountain, which is really
cool, because he's, you know, he's giving little boosts back
to people who comment and stuff. And they see that as a
community. Whereas we have curio Kassar, also just the podcast
app, but really has the community of the live shows. And
I love that because now you have two podcast apps, but it's not
all the same thing. They're using it in different ways. And
I think there's so much more that, that we can do with that
there's so many more things that can be created, particularly in
the live sense, but even but even in the engagement side,
it's it just I'm so happy, you know, and it's so easy at it for
a podcast or to add a split somewhere for some other service
to get fired up. You know, just to be now I put in 1% split that
goes to my wallet on fountain. So other shows shows up there
even though I don't have a wallet, I'm fountain, you know,
that receives all the Satoshis. It's just it's just mind
boggling how much is happening in completely different ways
with the same basic podcast idea. Does that make sense?
Dave Jones: What I'm waiting for somebody to build the live
instead of just like instead of just putting live into an
existing app, like build an entire app around live who Yeah,
you know, because what you're really building is radio,
Adam Curry: or YouTube or YouTube Live?
Dave Jones: Yeah, you're like, you can imagine it, let's just
let's just extrapolate out like, I don't know, three years from
now. You have, let's just say
Adam Curry: three months, three years from now, I don't know if
I'll be alive. You might want to tighten that up a bit.
Dave Jones: You'll be living in the living in Jamaica. But like,
Oh, I remember was gonna say about about Charleston. I
remember why I brought that up. You said you know, you look
around, you're like, Oh, we could live here. We looked
around and we're like, nobody can live here for less, you
know,
Adam Curry: for less than a million dollars.
Dave Jones: Like these houses? No, no, we can't live here. But
anyway, like, if you if you look at three years in the field,
let's just say there's 200 shows doing live. Well. I mean, don't
you at that point, aren't those all like, essentially, you have
radio stations at that point. I mean, you can turn the dial and
there's a deal going on with there's probably a few shows
happening streaming live so that you begin to That becomes this
sort of radio like experience. Well, how about
Adam Curry: the idea that Moe and I have always had his
versus, like, can I have like a live vote? Do you like this
versus that? Okay, you know, click on this button to send
sets to that to that wallet or whatever. I'm not sure how it
works. I'm just talking about, you know, to register your vote
here being or registering. Well, versus the idea of versus is you
got two DJs you know, DJ one, DJ two, or rapper or hip hop,
whatever it is, it doesn't could be country herbs, classical for
all I care. And, you know, with the, with the music stuff, that
we're starting to integrate live music, I mean, all of this is
totally possible. And it's all within the grasp, and people are
making money. I mean, there's real money happening here. You
know, there's like, hundreds of dollars a day 1000s And 1000s a
month. 10s of 1000s. This I mean, just go look at V for B
stats.com.
Dave Jones: Yeah, Nathan says Twitch for podcasting. Yes,
good. Good analogy. There you go. No, you're good. On the
music side where we were. Today's show was supposed to be
my husband's to be Michael and Sam from wave lake for the
second time that got that got derailed. I mean, this is like
dude, like the, the cursed podcast guests. But
Adam Curry: then it got worse, then it got worse, because you
rescheduled them. And then yesterday, I had my my scan for
my teeth. And Dr. Mitch, he's like, Oh, I'm so excited. You
got seven millimeters of bone. Bone edge, man. Yeah. He's like,
26th of April, you're going three hours, it'll be great
then. And by the way, also not on the brochure. After that
three hour procedure, then three months to heal. Then I get the
teeth jacked arm. So I have, I'll still be using
Dave Jones: temporary slippers. seven millimeters of bone.
Adam Curry: Yeah, the group they ossified myself.
Dave Jones: That's a great show title.
Adam Curry: seven millimeters of bone
Dave Jones: the lot like live performances and stuff. I mean,
this is all there. This is all there for the taking. So we'll
we'll talk about we'll talk about all that with them. But
that really kind of needs to your the vs thing made me think
about, you know, a remote.
Adam Curry: Item live. It's all in there, man. It's all in. I'm
so excited.
Dave Jones: Speaking of. So, you know, I've been going through
the the namespace and converting all the issues to discussions.
Which has been a it's been it's one of those things where as
long and tedious but it actually is. I'm really glad that that
I'm going through this because it helps me re read everything.
Adam Curry: And actually, whenever I see the email come
in, Dave Jones has converted this issue to a dense
discussion. I'm like, okay, click. Let's take a
Dave Jones: look. Now wait, wait, wait, we wait. Hang on,
hang on. Are you saying that every please tell me that every
time I do this, people aren't getting spammed with 100 emails?
Adam Curry: No, not 100 Just one every single time you convert an
issue to a discussion, I get an email. Every one.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I'm happy about that. Or is it only the
ones that you've replied to in some way? Or is it all of them?
Adam Curry: Well, I I, I'm subscribed to the whole GitHub,
you know, so you can subscribe to different things. I want to
see it all. Yeah, it's just our baby. I may not know how to how
to use GitHub, but I can read an email. I can I can click in and
reply to someone and say I don't agree with that. You know,
something new
Dave Jones: Eric P paces. He gets all of them, but he's
watching the repo. Okay. So if you're watching the repo, you
get all those? Yeah. So
Adam Curry: I am watching the repo. Correct. Okay. All right.
Well,
Dave Jones: if I spend anybody with conversions, my apologies,
I
Adam Curry: don't care. I like it. I'm cool with it.
Dave Jones: But there's been a lot of been a lot of great
discovery going on here. Like, let's see, where's my sheet
here? Stuff I forgot about like, the sponsor tag.
Adam Curry: Yes, I saw this one.
Dave Jones: And somebody Africa who wasn't me. Was it Daniel, or
no, it may have been, maybe Mitch actually. Yeah, I think it
was Mitch. He wanted a continuous attribute on the live
item. Tag.
Adam Curry: Like oh, yes, yes. Yeah. Like it's a continuous
stream.
Dave Jones: Yeah. For things for for stuff like 100%. Retro, yes.
And then
Adam Curry: that kind of makes sense as far as I'm concerned.
Dave Jones: See, okay. Now this is this is one I mean, Well, I
guess we're going, you got anything else you wanna talk
about? We need to do namespace talk, or do we want to know I
have something that we talk about? Yeah. Okay, go go for
because that was about it that was about to dive into a
namespace not off the off the diving board. No,
Adam Curry: well, actually, this is your fault.
Dave Jones: Please. Alright, I woke up to it, whatever. Yeah,
Adam Curry: the podcast standards project launched.
Well, that makes me explain what you're
Dave Jones: okay. You just like it you just like
Adam Curry: or not the whole thing. Now, let me get to the
year for the podcast. And let me get to your ballpark. Because,
okay, you know, this launch. And of course, I read the blog post,
with all respect a little, a little flowery, a little, just
seemed to be different, different versions of
explanation of what this exactly is about. And, you know, and you
said, Oh, listen to the buzz cast. It's a very good
explanation. And I'll let you know, and you're my partner,
like, Okay, I immediately stopped whatever I was doing,
measuring my bone, and I went
Dave Jones: six millimeters. So we're gonna let me
Adam Curry: listen to the podcast. This is the Buzzsprout
podcast. I know who's on that. Who's on the it's Kevin, Kevin,
Dave Jones: Kevin, and Alvin and Jordan. Right. Okay.
Adam Curry: And so there is a very good explanation. And I'm
like, Oh, okay. Cuz I've heard, you know, couple of varying
things. And then they get into analogies, which was a hilarious
bit, you know, and I think it was maybe album did a did
analogy, which was, which was great. Except that doesn't work
for women. So it was like completely completely
misogynist. And like, Oh, dude, I knew that he was going down a
bad road with that. But then Kevin gave his his analogy. And
I wanted to play that because it really explained what, what
they're trying to do with the core Protocol, or I think RSS is
a format, right? It's not really a protocol. I mean, I forget how
you've been asked that it doesn't matter format. Format
doesn't even matter what you mean to answer. Did you know I
did, I'm sorry, no, don't answer it. It's not worth it. Because
we get a lot of emails, or you can always boost the grandmas.
If you disagree with something. It's not important, but it's
this format. So I want to play that analogy from the buzz cast.
Here we go.
Unknown: Let's talk about email. So email, there has been a
standard that's been around for years and years and years, I
really have no idea how old the email spec is, when I talk when
we talk about email protocols. We're mostly talking about IMAP,
which is pretty much what runs Internet Mail. Nowadays, there
was another one called Pop three, but they were they were
compatible, very similar technologies. And most email
transfers on both of these two protocols. But for for years and
years, when email came out, it always looked the same, whether
you're in Outlook, or Yahoo, or whatever, well, about 20 years
ago, Google said, We're gonna launch an email client, we're
gonna do things a little bit differently. And they organized
your email differently. They organized it by threads. And
they said, instead of trading folders and putting things in
folders, you can just tag stuff and just archive it. And if you
want to dig it up, again, your primary way to do that is going
to be search. This is all proprietary technology that was
built off of the same standard protocol. Since then, in recent
years, we've seen more innovation happen in email, like
now another company came along called superhuman, and they
decided to innovate on top of people with Gmail addresses, but
they're just using that way stuck on the back.
Dave Jones: superhuman,
Adam Curry: I've never heard of this shit. I don't know what
this is. It sounds like something I want to check out
though. It's great. Yeah. So again, it's all analogy about
things built on top of IMAP, there was pop three as well, but
by maps far superior,
Unknown: people with Gmail addresses, but they're just
using that same protocol in the background. They're saying, we
don't actually have to serve the email, let Google do that. But
we can improve upon Google's interface around it. So we're
leveraging a protocol that's been delivered by another
company. And we provide our own UI, again, all innovation that's
happening on top of a standard protocol. And then just even
more recently than superhuman, you have Basecamp, which is now
called 37, signals to the company behind Hey, they
launched their own email product. And they say we're
gonna thread messages as well. But we have some new ideas
around the interface, and we're going to strain stuff out, we're
not going to let people into your inbox by default, you have
to get give them permission to land in your inbox. Like, again,
more innovation that's happening upon layers of a standard
protocol. And that's the same thing that can happen in
podcasting. But we don't have to change the original protocols
like RSS is great. The extensions and the namespaces
that are built on top of them are great. So the podcast
interest project, we're not going to come out and say, Hey,
we need a new namespace. It's going to be the new podcast
standards namespace. No, there are great namespaces that exist.
All we're doing is trying to figure out the best of all of
them and putting them together and saying, Hey, if you're gonna
build technology in the space let's all agree to support these
things as table stakes, and then innovate on top of that, and
create great experiences for on both sides for the podcast or
for the listeners, for advertisers for whatever, but
like we need some set of ground rules to be able to all work
from so that what we build works for a lot of people. I think
that
Dave Jones: going forward toward we should have an ongoing
segment of Kevin and I try to think of different areas where
there's I've got some,
Adam Curry: okay, so you understand the basic idea is,
they're not trying to recreate what podcasting 2.0 has done, or
what, what Apple's done with the iTunes namespace, not trying to
rewrite RSS 2.0. We're trying to create an industry group that
says, hey, this is the place you come to, if you want to know
what kind of the baseline is, for a podcast hosting company
for a pack, podcast client. And it's also the place you can say,
hey, if only where could I if I've already seen them say, oh,
no, you wanna if you want to propose a tag over the podcast
namespace, I like that a lot. And I'd like to give my own
analogy. So
Dave Jones: which I think I also have an analogy, and I will, but
I will do it after your analogy.
Adam Curry: Oh, good. Oh, no, it's the analogy show. What two
and a half, three years ago, open podcasting came under
attack from big tech had been brewing for a while. But as one
of the creators of podcasting, I considered it my duty to defend
to protect what we ended up with Dave Winer, but you know, what
we initially created and a lot of people, a lot of stakeholders
and open podcasting built on RSS. So Dave, you and I, we
built a fortress, around the freedom that was created almost
two decades ago. Regardless, I
Dave Jones: like this good analysis,
Adam Curry: the fortress of freedom you like that?
Regardless of any agenda from Apple, Spotify, Amazon, Google,
we ensured that there will always be a free and open home
for podcasting at podcast index.org and assure its
longevity by publishing the entire database, which we we
dropped one every single week, anybody can down, anybody could
could replicate what we're doing and set up a new index. If we've
keel over. Whatever happens, we if we say, Oh, we're done when
you don't want it anymore, anybody can do it. So that
fortress of freedom for podcasting and podcasting, on
that end is done. Now, we also decided to fix a problem for the
development of improvements, and modernization of podcasting. And
we did this. I think this was, honestly I think this is the
genius. We did this by enabling participation in the value flow
of podcasting, by creating an incentive that allowed anybody
including application developers and service providers any to
benefit from its success. That meant mistakenly seen by some as
crypto bro stuff, the value for value system created a simple
and elegant way for anyone providing value to the system to
receive value in return. That was really a counter attack on
the big tech companies, who always always expect content
creators and software developers to give up their work for free
or 99 cents. You know, it's not very incentivizing in the big
tech model, to our weapons in this, you know, fight for
freedom, if you will, our software and content. And by the
way, I don't see much difference between someone writing content
for a podcast or writing code, it's all writing, it's all
creative. It all comes out of human beings. And we put it into
computer one way or the other, whether it's digital audio or
digital bits of code podcasters in their audience now today have
over 70 apps and services to choose from, that really created
this formidable front that consists of I think, over a half
million modernized views of which 12,800 now are sharing
value is kind of the right number. Yep. So inch by inch tag
by tag, we are gaining territory. And we do this by
creating podcasts enriched with new forms of content
implementing features far faster than any big tech companies
could ever dream of. Now as with any conflict, and I think and
I've we I've always felt this conflict with certainly Spotify
and to a degree Apple more recently and and YouTube and all
those guy conflict. So we have conflict, you need fighters on
the front lines, that's podcasting 2.0 and the
podcasters and their audiences using the modern ecosystem. But
with conflict you also need a vision of resolution no war
lasts forever. So for that we need diplomats and right on cue
the podcast Standards Project you like it Do you like my
analogy?
Dave Jones: I like this tourney turned so like it.
Adam Curry: So we need the diplomats here comes podcast
standards project that was really willed into existence.
And I want to personally congratulate the founding
members for publishing this monumental task, which has been
tried many times in the past, but they never had the fighters
on the front line, warriors armed with scissors and gaffer
tape. I'm glad I'm making you laugh. So the product, the
podcast, Standards Project, its goals, as I understand them,
will help bring peace to the open podcast ecosystem. It also
is critical when it comes to conflict, give big tech away
out, not capitulation, but they can participate participation.
So recently, the big tech podcast Industrial Complex has
been somewhat crippled by a cyclical soft advertising market
and a very unattractive investment climate, imagine how
much value they can participate in and create if they adopt
pieces of a namespace. Now in every society, we have military
and diplomats, right, it's two sides of the same coin. Now,
typically, the diplomats and politicians, they fund the
military, we are flipping that script. And to kickstart it, I
personally am going to add a split in every value block I
control to help fund our diplomatic front, because no
one's talking about how they're going to fund what they need to
do. And that way, we can also avoid power struggles and
corruption. And if everyone who uses value for value puts a 1%
split for the for the project standards, for the podcast
Standards Project, I think it will really make a difference.
As soon as they have a wallet set up or added to all my feeds,
I'll promote it to other people to do it as well. I am now
understanding what we have here, which is a totally different
from the traditional world. When you have the military and you
have the diplomats on politician. I'm excited about
the future of pot open podcasting. I welcome our new
brothers in arms. I think it's gonna be fantastic.
Dave Jones: You are proposing a is a version of like the NDA.
But for your defense authorization?
Adam Curry: Well, here's really how I was looking at it, like,
yes, Ukraine and Russia and along comes China. And she is
like, hey, that would have stopped this war. But I didn't
like the idea of calling anybody China, Ukraine or Russia. So I
left all of that. But yeah, so but instead of the politicians
funding the NDA and slipping in all kinds of bull crap, we
flipped it around the people on the front line, like, Okay,
we've we have value coming in, we're gonna pass I am I hope we
get other people to do it, I want to pass off some of that
value to the politicians who will need this, they will need
some kind of funding for things. It's small right now. But you
know, it, everyone can see it. It'll be open, it'll be clear.
You know, it doesn't have to come. We don't have to go
sucking off some big tech company will be able to fund
their own little initiatives. And maybe they say, hey, hey,
fighters, you guys got any more? We want to do something. We need
some more. I'll be the first one to step up.
Dave Jones: As I see this, and I don't know, I don't know if this
is what they intended. But I think this is what they are one
of their missions, is not just standardization, but advocacy.
Yes. Oh, yeah. To my understanding that right,
Adam Curry: I believe so. Yes, I believe so. Well,
Dave Jones: I was gonna give my analogy but you I mean, yours is
like, so over the top and blew me out of the water. I mean,
look, I like likes, like following Dave Chappelle. I
Adam Curry: can't really do this. I would very much like to
hear your analogy. Well, I
Dave Jones: mean, my, my analogy is more along the lines of on
the on the email side of things, the the IMAP thing that's a good
that's that's that's pretty good. That to me, the better.
The better analogy here is on the email side of things. Is
HTML email. Every marketers worst?
Adam Curry: Very good point. Very good point.
Dave Jones: Every there every email app supports a subset of
HTML tags and attributes. Every one of them are different. In
fact, don't you literally their services that will literally pay
to show you how your email looks different in every single app.
Adam Curry: I believe that's even one of the first things
they put into their into the Standards Project is how you do
HTML in the in the podcast feed.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so currently, currently, I wouldn't looked so
right now if somebody wants to know how to properly format
their show notes. Like if you have a, let's just say a new
hosting company or a podcast or something. And they just or you
know, whoever and they just want to know okay, what is the right
way to form mesh show notes. You literally have to go. The pretty
much authoritative answer is an amalgamation of two are
different articles on pod news. How podcast one is titled How
podcast show notes display in podcast apps. The other one is
titled, How to Make Your episode notes work in all podcast
players. I mean, James is a great guy. No, but I don't I
mean, like,
Adam Curry: that's no place to go. That's not no shouldn't be
the place to go. Right?
Dave Jones: This is silly. I mean, there should be in like
something just taking that analogy. How should I format my
show notes to make them display correctly? How should blink be?
How long should they be so that things don't get cut off? So you
take all of those things, you can design the base standard, so
that it covers all of the different podcast apps, so that
the podcast apps themselves don't actually have to change?
Right? You can say you can say, okay, the the podcast app,
there's,
Adam Curry: the hosting companies would presumably take
care of that. And they'd hide all the things we're talking
about behind their UI.
Dave Jones: Sure, sure. But then the pup, but the published spec
has to be somewhere. Yes. Oh, no, it's not
Adam Curry: anywhere. Exactly. And
Dave Jones: it Yeah, no, go. Yeah. And it, we'll see what
else it like. So you could say and I think this is, I think
this is important to the podcast Standards Project. Ethos, is
let's just say that in this is actually the case. But let's say
that you have, you know, 10 different podcast apps, and
three of them support up to 4000 characters in the show notes.
Five of them support up to 3200, blah, blah, blah. So what you do
is you just take the one, that's the that's the lowest. And you
build your standard around that. That covers Everybody see what
I'm saying? Yeah, you're doing it in such a way to where the
pot the standard is, you only have it this long, because then
Adam Curry: no one works for everybody. No one has to change
anything. Exactly. Right. So
Dave Jones: I think I think that I guess what I'm trying to say
is that I think that the podcast, Anders project, can
design a whole bunch of out of the box, sort of standard doc
standardize document
Adam Curry: that are good to go. If you take if you take that
that. Yeah, and the most common,
Dave Jones: and they don't end up. They don't end up say,
arguing the industry arguing Well, or saying, Hey, you
podcast that developer, you got to go change your craft to
adhere to our stand. Right.
Adam Curry: Right. Exactly.
Dave Jones: He's important. Good point.
Adam Curry: Good point,
Dave Jones: because we already told her heard Marcos, they I
don't want people telling me what to do. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So anyway, so I'm this, now that I understand
from, you know, from the bus, and I think, I don't want to say
I know it, everyone's worked on this. Look, for over a decade,
this has been tried and beat and just always kind of resulted in
the same thing. And that's because they didn't have
fighters in the form on the front line. And we just went out
said, Okay, we're gonna go kick some ass over here. And we're
doing this, and we're building our own our own apps, and we're
gonna do what we want to do. And now it's perfect time to have to
have this come in. And then hopefully, remember, content is
is the most powerful weapon we have, if you have an entire
collection, which we already do. But let's expand that even more
of the hosting companies and apps that are producing content.
And that is, ultimately, let's make no mistake, the goal has
always been for people to say, Hey, Apple, Spotify, can you
want to play nice, that's always been the goal. So there's now a
standardized way to say, here's what you should do and look at
all this content. You're crazy, because, okay, it's 1% now,
well, maybe 2%. But for some shows, you know, 10% like, no
agenda has 10% of the listeners on apps is pod verse. That's
pretty big. Yeah. Considering the size of the show. So is it
that high? No. But yeah, Spurlock sent me that grace from
another another great thing, you know, we have real numbers that
at least we all have the same number. Like, it doesn't matter
how accurate it is necessarily, but we have the same number and
we can all look at it on an equal basis. This is this is
truly beautiful, and I only want to contribute to making it work.
And I'm quite sure that that we can there's always going to be
bumps and hurdles and stuff like that. And nothing changes for
us. We keep running with scissors and doing our thing. I
mean, we're already reading verses in our head. And that
will happen but I also truly think, you know, I had a chat
with Steve Leeds. He has a remind me who that is. Steve
Leeds is actually the guy who called me when I was in Holland
in 1986 and said, Hey, Steve leaves a want to come work for
MTV. I said in New York, he said, Yeah, yeah, okay. Sure.
And, and I was like, four months later, I was in Manhattan, and I
was getting ready to do MTV, which I was there for seven,
seven years. Steve isn't has been in the music business for
all of us. He's now in his early 70s. And Steve, he goes, he was
the a&r guy for Led Zeppelin. If that gives you a little bit of
an idea how far back Steve goes. And he has these contacts. Steve
is the guy to be say, Steve, this old colleague of mine,
Julia, she's in Ireland and she really would love to see if she
can you know, it's been hard for her to get tickets to see you to
shoot a huge YouTube fan. Can you hook her up anyway she's
willing to pay for and what happens and as Steve puts in the
call, she doesn't get tickets now. She gets the full on come
to the office, which is a huge warehouse they have in Dublin
gets to see all the sets for the what was the youth the TV tour,
whatever that one was, yeah, this new TV takes us through
ever. You get to meet everybody gets free tickets, backstage
passes gets shuttled with a limo. That's what's that Steve
leads is connections that's directly from the guy the
manager. And he was at Sirius XM for the past 18 years. He built
a huge talent artists relationship. department within
Sirius XM. Just like everybody else, Sirius XM was firing
people. Hey, is an old white guy. Let's get rid of him. So
Steve gets canned. And, and it's interesting because I get a call
from him from a command. What's his name? The bird. I got a call
from a bird. Roger McQuinn. Roger McQueen calls me Do you
know the birds?
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Adam Curry: The guy with the you know, who had the extra string
on his guitar? With a seven string guitar. Nice. Crazy. So
McGuane calls me says dude, Steve got got cans of serious.
Oh, shoot. I'm gonna give him a call. So I call and Steve's
fine. It actually his wife passed away a year ago.
Horrible. Ms. Like a horrible lengthy says. But he's but no,
actually two years ago. But he's had a girlfriend now she's age
appropriate. She's 66 You know, the going down to the shore.
He's happy has he has money. But enough, but he's a guy who needs
to work. You know, he's like this guy. You know, he can't
just sit on his ass. He's not not dead.
Dave Jones: Fully. Age appropriate girlfriend. Yeah,
that's that's important.
Adam Curry: Of course. And so. And I'm talking he's like, and
he's like, No, I just, I can't really bring myself the music
business is so broken. It's so messed up. Mr. Steve, let me
tell you what we're doing. So I'm telling this stuff. He's
like, Oh, holy crap. And then he starts telling me about the
business. He's like, it is so broken. He says Spotify will
never ever, ever make any money. The way the fees are structured
with the record companies. They'll never even break even.
It's impossible. That's why they went all in on podcasting. And
he said to be to his credit, he said, you know, Sirius XM or
iHeart? Whoever was they? They bought like Tim Coco. He says,
yes, your wolf or whatever, faster spent, like $75 million
for like repeats. He says, Who gives a shit?
Dave Jones: That's bad.
Adam Curry: He says, Who gives a shit about all that stuff?
Because I don't know. I don't know where the value is. I don't
get it. And so we're talking about this. I'm like, you know,
what an awkward and it's I'm trying to pull them over. I'm
like, Dude, can you maybe this is something that you can help
bands with it because he knows everybody, everything even you
know, especially radio. I mean, he knows radio really well. But
he knows everybody in everything. He knows where all
that just he knows where all the buried. The bodies are buried,
but knows all the opportunities. I'm trying to get him to be a
consultant or something to work with. Yeah, with 2.0 bands, you
know? So I sent them a whole bunch of links, and I'll follow
up with them. But it was really interesting to hear that this
guy who knows everybody in the industry doesn't even want to do
anything in the industry that he comes from. He says so shit. And
it's just it's broken. But he got really excited about what
we're doing and how it would work. So I'm just putting that
out there and then you know in No two years, we'll have our
interview with the WaveLight guys, and we'll be able to talk
about
Dave Jones: the, I don't know if you've noticed this kind of out
of subscribe to, in my free micellar I just grab this
subscribe to, I don't know, some music, business thing, music,
business feed or whatever. And it's just now it's become just
this, the music industry has now become like a trading desk, of
all of the like, like there's no really great powerful music
coming out anymore. It's timeless. Everything is just a
product of it's sort of very quick and
Adam Curry: most format life has become really fought the hips
have become very formatted the Writing teams, you know, they're
all from Sweden, they all come in with seven writers, you know,
it's like it's all split up. And then it just goes into the big
bad void. I think personally, I've dealt with BMI but ASCAP,
BMI, or big black boxes, you know, you you your stuff gets
sold and play or played in that case. You know, 48 months later,
a penny drops out, you know, where's the rest? You got to
always Sue everybody. You know?
Dave Jones: MPP says, Oh, it all feels disposable. Yeah, it feels
totally dispensing you take that again, you know, I was were
talking to him before the show. Listen to some tunes. And I was
talking about Jerry Reed. And like, I can say this about Jerry
Reed, that guy can eat the frets off a guitar. I mean, like,
like, I mean, he can just tear up a guitar. And I'm like, you
can't really say that about people today. Like those kinds
of phrases. The musical, the music is not timeless, but you
do have this timeless that you have a catalogue of timeless
music that has character. And it has and it's powerful. And so
what the music business is seems to be doing now is they have
their disposable Tiktok tunes. And then they have this, these
various catalogs of old music that people actually go back and
listen to all the time. And they in is become sort of just a
trading desk where they just got rights from each other. Right?
Yes.
Adam Curry: So the rights here, so the rights there, you also
sell the rights to tick tock sell the rights to YouTube. So
you know, and the artists, the smart ones who've been around
long enough, but here's my $20 million payday, I'm gonna sell
my catalog the whole thing, you go and market it and hoard out
whoever you want.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but it's like, it's like the office. It's like
that show the office. Everybody just keeps trading that thing
around and whoever's the most recent buyer of the REITs and it
just makes me think that that's it. That's all it is. Now, we
there's no fixing it until you put it back in the hands of the
people.
Adam Curry: Well, we needed a new way of packaging a new way
of selling something that's outside of the model. Just like
podcasting, which you know, radio went through the same, the
same cycle, I mean, radio has become completely homogenized.
It's 20 minutes of commercials per hour. It all comes out of
Gillette or some of these other playout systems DJs are just I
mean, shoot, we got the chat GPT DJs eventually in Oh, that's
cheaper. Just shut up. Read the liner card. I mean, I come from
a place where I used to pick the songs I think about my show Oh,
it's just kind of weather today I'm gonna play bill where
there's lovely day, you know, or whatever. That is all gone long,
long, long gone. And podcasting has brought that back now
because of the licensing regime that we've always had. You know,
I technically I legally cannot play bill with this lovely day
on the podcast for a whole bunch of reasons and please don't
convince me otherwise not true. You can if you have a radio
station you'd have a stream I mean there's they made it so the
old guy the old guard could still could still use the
internet in that in that way. But I want to play you know
stuff I want to play something from wave like I want to play it
all from waves I want to play from SoundCloud I want to play
it from from a dystopia I want I want to do interviews I want to
make sure that they when they come on my show that the remote
item gets the whole band and everyone paid with splits and I
want it offline over the place and I want people I want to do
it live we do live you know i i hunkered for that. And I know
that we can recreate this whole business overnight, particularly
with the lit stuff. I can I can smell it almost
Dave Jones: as this is a good quote. You posted that Vanity
Fair article. Pretty good. dumb money is gone.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it got some point some valid pushback.
Actually it was I think Spurlock made me laugh the loudest. So
the title of the article in Vanity Fair is on a second. The
title is the dumb money is gone is the podcast boom going bust.
And Spurlock replies, the dumb money isn't truly gone until
Vanity Fair stops writing above average good. That was pretty
good.
Dave Jones: Okay, that's a good point. By the end of that
article, I thought it was I thought it was was good and
depressing at the same time. He says, I want to see I think, I
wanted Heidegger's had Heidegger, I had decanters, I
don't know how to pronounce his name. I wanted his thoughts as
someone who had just launched a podcast company at the very
moment, when it's starting to feel like maybe the party's
over. Quote, I think it's bleak right now for a lot of people in
podcasting, podcasting, he said, and it's really unfortunate that
so many people have lost their jobs. But at the same time,
there were a lot of, there was a lot of commissioning of mediocre
content, in places have really been reluctant, reluctant to cut
things. I do think that two years from now, the advertising
is advertising is going to come in, and they're going to be
better ways to target audiences, the companies that can build in
these two years will be will be successful in the end. Right? I
think that is the most delusional thing. Well, there's
gonna be two, it's like, the advertising is gonna come back
in two years. And in that time, and by then we will have better
ways to target people. No, you won't. All the ways to target
people that exist have been pretty already exists,
Adam Curry: pretty much been been hollowed out all the way.
Dave Jones: You can't, it's you can't conceive of a way to
target people that doesn't already exist, right? But,
Adam Curry: but also, it doesn't fix the core problem. The value
flow, everyone has to benefit. You can't We can't go back and
say, All right, podcasts have the right, you've got money.
Again, we've got ads running, but no one else in the system
gets some of that value. And I want to really, we need
marketing and advertising in our life. No doubt about it. You
need to be able to find out about products and services. But
that homogenized system of veils and filling slots is boring is
boring to me. I think it's boring, the audience's I hear
people complaining about it. People tune it out. They try to
ignore it, I think in show you know, kind of like endorse
endorsements, paid endorsements is fine as appropriate. I love
bridesmaids magazine, because you get great ads in there for
wedding dresses for DJs for venues. That makes total sense.
Did you just crumble up $100 bill out of a barn. So there's
plenty of things to do. But I think the timeline two years is
probably appropriate. But it's not going to be what they're
thinking. I think I think this is our moment. This is where we
strike. This is where we go all in. And especially with new
music will really, really really make a big difference.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and we have been working on I've been
talking to Alex a little bit privately, about, about what to
do with channels. And we just we discussed OPML versus RSS,
primarily around how it's gonna relate to pod pink. But by the
way, pod ping dystopias coming on board with POD ping, nice.
We've got you know, red circle came on board with POD pain. We
have another host that I was asked not to talk about this a
large host is going to come on pod being I think he's just
because they want to do their own press release and stuff. So
I mean, pod pod ping is becoming a it's it is widely adopted now
that I think I think it's fair to say that it is becoming
widely adopted. Yeah. Completely. Yeah. So that that
having that as a resource, this messaging system for events
within podcasting is so nice. So my quit at some odd you know,
questioning to, to Alex was, you know, how, what do we what
should we do? Should we do RSS or do OPML for for or for
channels. And because, you know, this directly relates to music
in law, I mean, lots of stuff and because you know, your
channel can be, you know, for a particular artist or whatever.
And he was like, Well, you know, if we're gonna pod ping this, it
really has to be RSS, because we don't have, we don't have a
mechanism within pod paying to denote different MIME types.
Basically, everything. Everything is a default
assumption of application RSS, right? And if we're going to be
putting in something else, it's just a OPML, JSON, whatever, it
really has to be a you have to have some way to tell people,
this thing that you're about to consume is this type of thing.
And so
Adam Curry: well, you know, we need I'll just say it right now.
We need an MPSP. Music podcasting Standards Project.
I'm not kidding. I'm not gonna you need, you need the same
thing. And it actually solves a lot of problems. Because it's
very
Dave Jones: serious.
Adam Curry: I'm very serious. Thanks for thinking I'm always i
That's
Dave Jones: a no, no, no, no, you said, I mean, like podcast,
podcast, Anders project, and then a music podcast. And
Adam Curry: the reason they can be part of the, you know, it's a
subgroup or whatever it is, but instead of having to explain to
people how you shoehorn music into the podcast, namespace,
etc. Yeah, you just have a group that says, Oh, you're a
musician. Here's how you do it. Here's how it works. Here's the
minimum that you're a hosting company that wants to you you
have a music community. Here's what you need to do here. And by
the way, that should be the wavelength guys and and, and
dystopia, etc. And maybe get SoundCloud if you're lucky. It's
the same thing. And that will actually make it a lot easier
than having to explain, re explain everything. Do you know
what I mean?
Dave Jones: Yeah, and I didn't know what you mean. Because
yeah, that's a good point. Because you have sort of the
podcast, let's just say, you know, Kevin and Tom and Todd
and, and Mike Caden and AKs guys and transistor and all these
these hosting companies, they're their podcast no focused she
really Debbie they I don't know that they have the bandwidth or
the or the will but I fight and
Adam Curry: nominate, nominate Steven b No, he's he he
understands already he's weighed in you know put blueberry in
there and and who all who was put off put some music guys in
there. You need to obfuscate all the all the all the technical
stuff push that day and then and those in those two groups
coordinate and we just keep running with scissors and
creating cool shit that works
Dave Jones: well they could if if a podcast standards
subcommittee
Adam Curry: steering committee
Dave Jones: the steering committee if the steering is the
podcast music standard steering committee wants to you know form
this this document this is okay for a track is this yes a
channel is here's here's how you do it. Yeah, well then that
could be that could be something that the podcast standard
project could adopt. Yeah. As a as a proposal as or as you know
a here but how about this? I will give a will I will donate
to the podcast Android project the pimp denomination system
Whoa that we never actually use
Adam Curry: know that fully formed easy to give away.
Dave Jones: Yes. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So we will give we
will officially give the podcaster Android project if
they want it we will give them pimps.
Adam Curry: Perfect. That is very excited. We have all the
pieces we really we have so many piece Abel Kirby put him make.
And by the way, we need to somewhere in here in we are for
the lit crew, which is which is eventually going to be a part of
the podcast Standards Project. I'm sure you know, we need the
IRC wizards. You know, look at it, look at all this great
stuff. I mean, I personally think every hosting company
should have their own IRC lip server, with ISO bot and all
these crazy things. I mean, it's amazing what they've got going
on, you know, the boost bot. This these are all super
enhancements that make the lip stuff just saying
Dave Jones: that hit the hit the nail we get a decent namespace
target to hit the thing.
Adam Curry: I'll be hitting the thing.
Unknown: And now it's time for some hot namespace talk.
Adam Curry: By the way, we have a you have a note on pod Casting
next on social from Notre Dame Jennifer of the pimp DB who says
no. You were here shaking my head.
Dave Jones: Oh, is that what SMH means? Yes. Okay. I've never
know what that means. Yeah. I'm sorry. Damn, Jennifer. I deserve
every bit of that scorn
Adam Curry: kind of. Yeah.
Dave Jones: The I forgot why hidden while I wanted you
Adam Curry: to talk about the namespace we were talking about,
about the IRC, or the Bruce bot.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but I had a specific one. I can't remember
what it was. Well, I've got I've got others back. Man. I can't
believe I dropped.
Adam Curry: Oh, hold on. Let me I'm gonna prove you are
remembering you are remembering you are remembering you are
Dave Jones: because I closed a task. Oh, I remember. Okay,
okay. The closed some. I'm trying to be very careful about
closing issues because last time the first time I closed an
issue, the French got furious.
Adam Curry: You started off riots in Paris.
Dave Jones: Yeah, guillotines, security came out. Yeah, yes. As
Benjamin Bellamy said, I do not. I said I quote, I closed the
issue. And I said, I'm closing this is it looks like this is
resolved now. Posted says this is not resolved. I was like,
Adam Curry: okay, with americanas is not reserved?
Dave Jones: No, it was a clearly not resolved. So I've been
trying to be very judicious about closing issues as they get
moved. So I've only closed a few. But the the one I did today
was about chat. And so Steven B had a long time ago. You know,
he came up with this idea of
Adam Curry: I saw this quote this closed issue, by the way.
And I went in to look at it to understand what you had done.
Yes, I got it. Go ahead.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so like that. That's where this idea of a chat
attribute on the live item tag came from? Haha. And so that
that's like, you know, it's always it's always been, it
serves this purpose, but only but it's only to open up a web
UI. Because you have no, you have no idea what this thing is.
I mean, this chat URL could be, it could be anything. So we
really need a formalized way to do chat. And I think it's
probably time to start building that. So this part, you know, a
podcast, colon chat, tag, what like it needs to be, it needs to
be in the mix. So that it can specify the protocols, I think,
most you know, it would need for they would need to be an IRC.
There need to be an IRC definition in there, just
because so many podcasts already use IRC as their main thing. But
as far as a new, you know, a new thing going forward XMPP makes
probably the most sense as a chat protocol. So think like, I
think it's time that so what I did was I closed that issue
today. So that week two, and made a note to myself to
propose, like get give a first crack at a at a chat, nice tag,
and it will be modeled after the social interact.
Adam Curry: Right? Yeah, that's what I saw you put in there.
Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Because I mean, this social interact is a
great is an elegant solution. It, you know, you define the
define some key attributes and the protocol that you know, what
protocol is going to be and you're good. I mean, it's very,
it's very simple, elegant way to do it. Nothing, that it just
makes sense to have that as chat as well. And then, and then we
can tag on, you know, things on top of that, for stuff like live
chat replay, you know, like the time timestamping and that
kinda, yeah, you know, and that doesn't need to be necessarily
in the spec, like you, you know, that shouldn't be in any way
trying to be required, because that that can just be up to each
individual implementation of whether you want to do something
like that. But it can be done when you have something like
XMPP you've got those attributes in there that you can pull from
Adam Curry: me I just like the fact that we're doing a chat app
just as perfect. As perfect. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah, there's, I mean, in a perfect world, you
would you would say, you know, hey, IRC is not is not it's not
great for lots of reasons. And so you would go for with a new
one, but I'm not I don't know if we can because there's just
going to leave so many existing stuff behind. So I think we're
gonna have to support both. But but that's what the that's what
the discussion is for. Yes. What's the where's my Oh, yeah,
here it is. The other thing that came up and I had sort of had
forgotten about this
about not sending boosts boost messages to certain parties in
the feast Blitz.
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, I'm very opinionated about that.
Dave Jones: Okay, so let me lay it out. So the idea there is
you, you have a bunch of people on your splits. And some of
them, specifically the fee based providers as just just them off
the top. You say, Okay, well, I'm paying for this service. I
don't want a do or do not want them to see the booster gram
messages. And so you there would be an Andrew and additional
attribute on the value recipient tag added. The by default,
everybody gets the message, but then you could add on an
attribute that says, you know, something like, No, you know,
booster gram equals no, or whatever message equals no. And
to say, Okay, this, I don't, I don't want the message being
included in this specific split. So what is your opinion?
Adam Curry: Well, obviously, if the default is everybody gets a
message. I'm okay with it. I think it's a very small set of
people who who think that's important. I have reversed my
opinion, I'm open to change. I thought this all of this that
fountain was doing initially, with the booster grams kind of
showing up a bit like comments. I thought that was bad. I
thought it would hurt us. I completely was wrong. I repent.
It is one of the most exciting features. And no one no one that
I see interacting on fountain certainly seems to have any
inkling that this is a private message. I don't think I've ever
received a message that was so private that I would be
embarrassed, I wouldn't want anyone to use it. So for me, we
can put it in. But I think it's overkill. I don't think anyone
to use it. In fact, I think it's much more exciting to allow
precisely the apps to be able to see it because I think the app
should be used. I want the app developers to use my booster
grams in any way they see fit. I want them I want them to create
leaderboards and scrolling messages. And you know, I've
really because of the the study I've done of tick tock with
what's going on with the you know, with the legislation and
just in general, I've really analyze what's going on. I even
loaded it for a bit on my phone. I did delete it, because it's so
addictive.
Dave Jones: But you put tick tock on your phone. Oh, I
Adam Curry: did. I was dangerous. Well, it's graphene
OS and it's kind of sandbox. But as it came to tools, if we
talked about this two week, probably didn't talk about two
weeks ago. So I was just looking at the tools that tick this is
why I think tick tock is kicking everybody's ass besides the fact
that they, their algorithm seems to be Hey, I'm gonna put
everybody who loves each other over here because they all agree
on one thing. And I know this because I went viral. I went
viral was two topics one about tick tock itself, I'm gonna
ignore that. The other one about my faith journey, which I talked
about on Joe Rogan.
Dave Jones: And he went you went viral on tick, I went super
Adam Curry: viral. I'm talking eight 900,000 views 1000s of
comments also on YouTube. Millions of views on YouTube.
What's the difference? On tick tock. They suppress dissent.
It's like everyone's just like oh great, brother. I love it.
God is good, you know, or whatever. You can't imagine how
great the this These comments were. No one's pushing back.
It's all fan fabulous. Can't wait, you know, all the things
you would want to hear on YouTube. On YouTube. It's like
the amplify a man it's a hoax. God is not real. You of course,
because the American media model is strife and divisive pneus and
outrage. That is the model. It works for social media. It works
for politicians. It goes straight through to mainstream
media, that everyone's yelling at the news and you know, the
most recent thing is, oh, trans versus Christians, you know, and
AWS, you can see it everywhere and we're just fighting over
this instead of, you know, everyone's going to their corner
and everyone's gonna have their opinion, but when algorithms
purposefully make people fight, that's where the money is made
in the American media model and what a tick tock do by the way,
it is a very Chinese thing. No, no, Paul, you people over here,
but you can go to tick tock, you can get all the blue haired
purple hair, you can get all kinds of people. And, and I
learned this because I saw messages of people saying, you
know, the reason they don't want Tik Tok is because that's where
all the Magga is, man, the Patriots are on Tik Tok. They
want them off. And then I saw the same message. LGBTQ they
want to kick us off because we're powerful on tick tock one.
Whoa, whoa, someone's smart. They put all the purple hair
over here. They put the church people over here, put
Republicans over here. And and advertisers love it. So
Dave Jones: it's not. It's not one tick tock. It's like It's
like 800 Mini tick tock.
Adam Curry: Yes. So an advertise like, oh, I want to sell my
shoes. I want to sell them to people on the left and people on
the right. Magic Johnson famous who said this? And when I'm
sorry, Jordan. And so you can you can message to people on the
right hey, right, right, right thinking people. Here's my
shoes. And no one on the left is going a man that shit or your
shoes are no good. You're selling to people on the right.
And the people on the left, go, Hey, left people. Here's some
shoes. And there's no one in there going, man you've targeted
I'm tired and you can't get the shoes. Awesome.
Dave Jones: This was true. This is a fascinating, psycho
psychological thing here. Because when you when you when
you segregate these communities, to where they can only hear
their own voice. They're happier. And they and they don't
know that they're supposed to be mad.
Adam Curry: Yes. And as a business, it's working very
well. Now. Make no mistake, centralized media, social media
is a bad idea. Regardless, bad idea. It's much better if you
have a feed. And it's reverse chronological order. By the way,
I'm going to say it, I'm going to put it right here I have it
on my nose noster there's something to it. There's
something to noster that cannot be poo pooed. I am. I'm from the
future. I have identified things in the past. I'm usually 10
years too early. That's why I'm not a billionaire. So maybe I'm
10 years early on this, but there's something to noster
that, that, that there's power there that I can't quite
explain. I don't know exactly why. But noster as a social
media, where you own your own identity. And I know there's all
the problems with relays. And, and I can Alex Gates has
probably just turned off the live stream. Um, there is
something there that is functioning. That is working in
a way that is interesting, exciting. It's far from ready
for primetime. But there's something there. And it's, it's
different from mastodon. It's different. It's certainly
different from any centralized social media. I'm just saying
there's something there. So centralized social media, is a
bad idea. It's a health hazard. Anything that has an algo is a
health hazard. And you should protect your children from it.
Regardless, this is what is killing people. I think it's
it's evil. But right now, tick tock has figured out that people
are happy on tick tock, because they're not being injected with
opposition.
Dave Jones: And I did not I didn't know this. This is this
is a very this is very interesting. I didn't know that
they actively suppress dissent.
Adam Curry: I don't have proof. But I haven't gone viral twice.
I saw the difference on two different platforms.
Dave Jones: I don't know that. I mean, I think the proof is the
observation because you what other what other social media
platform ever would you not see any opposing views? I mean, like
that awkward. Yeah. That just almost can't it almost, is
either they're actively either it's an act of suppress
suppression of dissent, where they're doing something like
looking negative. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I think it is. And the reason why pastor Jimmy is
the one who pointed this out to me. He said, the people who are
always the people who are going to push back on you as a
Christian the most are Christians, the Christians or
you're not worshipping right, you know,
Dave Jones: and that is 100% true.
Adam Curry: And so that did show up on YouTube, but not on tick
tock. So somehow, even the people who are in the group
didn't we're not, did not surface to me. With you're doing
it. You're doing it wrong.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that hasn't been under some sort of
suppression. I mean, we know that there's sentiment, and
there's like sentiment scoring. I mean, that that NLP processing
that's been around for a long time where you have like, sure
you can feed it some text and it'll spit out is this negative
or positive? mean that it's, it's been around for a long time
and is really accurate? Yes, this is a negative. So then you
can very easily just say, well, we're just gonna hide, throw
that down. Yeah, exactly. Those are filter, you boza filter the
negative stuff. And this is
Adam Curry: also why you have Bozo filter. This is also why I
have never built an I can almost articulate but I've never
believed in podcast recommendations. Because that,
by default requires a very centralized system that knows a
lot of things about you. And that's kind of the opposite of
what podcasting is podcasting. Now, I think it's a great place
to find podcasts currently, he's on tick tock. Know, we get a lot
of people Hey, man, someone posted a clip of no agenda on
tick tock. And, and that bubbles to the top and it's within that
group, you know, and it doesn't flow over somewhere else where
people are gonna go, you know, yell about it, or it becomes a
very positive thing.
Dave Jones: I'm glad you're talking about glad you brought
this up. Because just like, I've been thinking about this a lot
discovery. Discovery is not a, it's not a flat thing. What I
mean is, it's not like an own off. You don't you don't go you
don't just you, you don't go into discovery mode. There's a
there, it's more like there's like a pressure to discover
discovery. It's sort of, there's something that's pushing you
over the threshold into discovering a thing. So I know
this all sounds a little bit weird. But like, like, it's very
rare. It's rare that you would discover something without being
ready to look for it. Like, but it's like, so in that regard,
it's it is sort of like a mode, but you don't choose to be in
it. It's something that you get almost pushed into while you're
doing something else. It's probably easier to understand
with analogies like so if you when I go into my podcast app,
I'm not looking for discovering new podcasts. No, like, I'm
going in there to listen to something I already want.
Something I already know. Like, I'm going in there to listen to
something I've already chosen to download and to subscribe to. So
like your podcast app is not ever I don't think going to be
the place where discovery happens. That's one
Adam Curry: disagree with you a little bit. Really? Yeah.
Dave Jones: I mean, I thought I was I mean,
Adam Curry: no, no. Well, I just want this one thing. The
difference is the activity feed on on fountain. When I see a
Dave Jones boost show up in the air for a podcast. I know Dave
Jones, but no one else the app doesn't know I know Dave Jones,
I see this activity feed I scroll through it. Now what's
going on, you see what's going on, or I see a clip or something
like that by other people. When I see Dave Jones has boosted an
amount of SATs to a show. I want to listen to the show. It may
not be for me, but I tried it out. So that is the one time the
one the one and only time. I've gotten a recommendation from an
app.
Dave Jones: I can see that's almost like bringing in a it's
almost like bringing in an external was you it was it was
you? Yeah, no, I'd like you're like I'm paying for it too. And
it's like, I mean, I'm actually there's like a double when
that's like your that's okay, well, that that's actually I
think fits into the pressure model. It's so because you're
you're being sort of overwhelmed into a sense of discovery that
you're being pushed. No, no, no, no, I disagree by an external
force, which is if you if you had me, Yeah, huge.
Adam Curry: Exactly. If you had made a clip, it would have been
just as interesting to me or if there was a comment that surface
as long as I know that you and serendipitous, right, as long as
I know that. Oh, that's Dave, he did this. Oh, that's
interesting. I'm going to check it out. Now other ways I
discover as you say, Hey, Adam, check this podcast out.
Dave Jones: And so I think discovery most often happens
with something like like, this would be a scenario. You are
listening. You're listening to some old music you're listening
to some Jerry Reed we talked about Jerry Reed he listened to
that he was Moses and you liked you get you're getting it.
You're getting into it. And then you are like, I wonder if
there's any podcasts about Jerry Ray, like, I would like to know
more about his life or whatever. before. Before you know it, you
end up you're listening to cocaine and Ron stones. Yeah.
And you're into, you've gotten into discovery mode through
something put sort of pushing you into it. And and like, I
guess that's what I'm trying to say in this sense. Like, I'm not
sure that the difference I think with fountain is, you know, you
know, me, and that's probably and that's a good daddy, I
admit, that's a good way to do it. If if the people that you
are if you know, the other people on your timeline, like if
you have some sort of connection, of course, yes, of
course. Yeah. And you trust Now, if you're just a Rando will, you
know, download and found those that may not be
Adam Curry: free, you know, and found and you can follow people?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. But the, but if there are people you
don't know, it's not the pressure may not be
Adam Curry: there. Oh, there's zero pressure? Of course not.
No, yeah. No, but I'm just saying it's not like YouTube or
Tik Tok. Where you know, where it's very short, the throwing
stuff in your face or trying things out there checking out
what you're scrolling? I mean, yeah, that's a recommendation
engine, which, which is not appropriate for podcast. Now,
here's the number one way I get new listeners. Know, there's two
ways. One is, I saw you on Joe Rogan talking about your
podcasts. I saw you and Tom, I heard you and Tom was talking
about your podcast, I heard you on. Fill in the blank. That's
one. The other one is I got hit in the mouth by my friend. My
friend. That's what we call it. For no agenda. My friend said
you gotta listen to this. Took me three lessons. Now I'm
listening. That's how that's how it's always worked for me.
There's never been we we do not show up on lists. We're not an
apples top anything.
Dave Jones: I don't you're not even on Spotify.
Adam Curry: We're not even on Spotify. We purposely not funny.
Yeah, we went 850,000 unique listeners as per op three. built
over time, of course. But people will send in messages like, Hey,
I got hit in the mouth by so and so by so and so by someone. So
there's a feedback mechanism where they can tell us and we
repeat that on the air, of course. But that's just smart
programming. You can't fix everything with a tag and
technology. Some of it is know what the hell you're doing on
the podcast.
Dave Jones: It's yesterday, this I'm sure we probably need to
Thanks for people's good for well, but but I do but I want to
say this with regards to the podcast, Anders project. And
their role as advocates, if I understand that role correctly.
I would suggest strongly advocating directly to
advocating slash agitating Call it what you will directly to
Apple and Google or the Android platforms directly to these
platforms for the things that are fundamentally needed. And
that would be out right out of the gate. A universal way to
subscribe to podcasts across apps. Oh, yes. So and that
involves the ability to set a default podcast player on your
device. So that you so that we can all get away from the
million little badges of all these Chiclets. Yeah, and we can
just have a you know, pod play colon slash slash the the link
to the podcast. And it just always opens in your default
player and subscribes we do this it's complete silliness and
nonsense that we don't have this yet. I would, I would advocate
for that right out of the gate. The other thing I would advocate
for is this is on my Christmas list is for somebody to just
call up some someone at Spotify and say, Hey, Spotify, will you
please support the person tag? Like some I feel like somebody
just needs to call them on the telephone and say, Hey, will you
please ingest these these X number of tags and just have a
in person phone call with somebody at at that play?
Because I would like them. It would be great. I agree. I'm
gonna go with your model. And say that we war can last
forever. We need to we need to seek peace. And peace, to me
involves the diplomacy of calling a calling them up and
saying hey, Can you all support? We would like add we as the
podcast Android project would like you to support. It's
Adam Curry: funny you say that we all know who the people are
because pod news reports on them daily. We know we know exactly
who the people are in charge, it changes a lot. We know exactly
who's in charge. I completely agree. We have their names. If
we add their names, we can probably find their their phone
their phone number. And before we get into thanking people, I
would like to advocate once again that someone helped
Courtney Kocak. thinks I pronounce your name. Yes. As a
private parts podcast. She heard our podcast, she I'll read this.
I had been talked about on podcast. She posted this on
Twitter. She did Yes. I've been talked about on podcast for
better or for worse, but I've never been clipped up and
discussed for the better part of a 15 minute segment. And by Adam
curry, no less. Apparently invented podcasting is pretty
hilarious. I wish I wish every time I'm talked about was so
good natured. You'll have to listen for the details. But long
story short, I'm now inspired to start doing V for V for my
podcast. And of course, I'll be taking you along for the ride.
No one has been allowed to this woman a HUD Damn.
Dave Jones: I mean, this is that's money
Adam Curry: in the bank. The bank someone has to go help and
she's got a Twitter. Now Rob Greenlee apparently didn't reach
out. I gave him first dibs. Don't make me go to Steve leaves
and make him do it.
Dave Jones: Rob doesn't like money. Not a money.
Adam Curry: Let's thank some people. Let's thank the people
who have diligently been boosting during this late night
board meeting. And we really appreciate all of you being
here. Who were in the chat room. Blueberry, the most recent one
one minute ago. With 33,999. He sends a link and of course I am
foolishly going to open this link to an mp3 file to see what
it is. And it's loading let's see. Seems to be a pretty big
file. I don't know what is the Lord. Oh, it's crunching the
connection for some reason. All right. Well, that's not working.
I have to stop that. By the way. I ordered a five gigabit gigabit
line Dave. Oh, you ordered a five gigabit. Yep, fiber is here
in the hill country and they have a 500 megabit they have a
gigabit they have a two gigabit and a five gigabit and I went
for five honkin gigabits baby.
Dave Jones: Holy cow. How did you get that out in the middle
of nowhere?
Adam Curry: Texas brother, Texas. Big pie. everything's
bigger in Texas. Don't you know that?
Dave Jones: I mean, I'm in downtown and
Adam Curry: 2222 from Nathan G alternative to a default podcast
app on iOS podcasting. 2.0 apps could provide a way to sync
subscriptions, progress play states between apps. Okay,
blueberry with a 33 666 with another. Another link Dave,
there's a Tiktok for everything he says. And then he sends in a
6666 the boardroom needs at least one goat. Okay, and it's
33,330 I'll give you a goat. Okay, he wants to hear a goat
and a 33,333 Where's my goat? I gotta go to here somewhere.
We're gonna go I'm gonna go that splits a little baby splits. Mr.
Robots, Mr. Robot checks in and he says just topped off my lb
with some climate change. Health karma for Dave oh, by the way.
10,000 SATs probably get that garlic off your nightstand at
night. Oh, that's the book you've been reading. Before the
works that my Hill appreciate where you and Adam have created
a bunch of emojis. We have elite boots elite boost 33 13,013 137
from envy for N for v XP 2.0. Getting lit on a Friday night.
Thank you for your coding. Gene being 2222 Seems I'm not
destined to Listen Live pod verse web is not playing nice
for me either. I guess I will catch the release version
tomorrow could be the the bits and bytes. Sorry about that.
Meet us with 50,000 SATs Thank you very much. metus another
gene being 1337 Check out the live show on pod verse for the
first time pretty cool. He says hard hat with 2222 Oh that was
the test boost I asked for earlier and Eric peepee 33,333
also with a test boost and Gene being again with a 1337 chimp
while we were starting off the show we had a test boost we were
singing to The Style Council. Shout out to the top he did a
boosted to the top with a row of dogs with a tail 22,223 The
trickler I'm thinking that oh he just trickler 500 SATs go
podcasting he says lie see Am 2112 Rush boost says running
with scissors on the oh yes running with scissors or needles
and pins Carolyn's monkey correct Martin Linda's Kirk all
the way from Scandinavia He gives us Depeche Mode Have a
listen
Unknown: back cold winter jarka That comes Caroline's
monkey it's hungry again. Running with Scissors on
needles.
Yeah
Dave Jones: okay I'm familiar with
Adam Curry: Guy airline I know the debate and one of them is
dead now. I knew that Depeche Mode guys pretty good ladies.
Let me see. I think that's Mike Dell 21,000 SATs pre show. busco
podcasting.
Dave Jones: Thank you,
Unknown: Mike. And
Adam Curry: me see then we have tone wrecker. 4321 bummed to
miss the board meeting chat room this week after last week's
break. We'll we'll catch the recording while watching our
high school robotics team compete this weekend. They did
qualify now to attend world finals in Houston next month.
Let me hear your holla Nightcrawler Holla Holla Holla
Holla That's right. And one late one that just came in sir lurks
a lot 13,370 Live booths from pod verse by Alby and Mike
Newman 21,112 Mega Rush boost just turn this thing on heard
Adam talking about big pipes go podcasting. All right, and now
it's over to you Dave because I hit the delimiter so it's time
for you to take over
Dave Jones: no I've got a Marco Arment it $500 And
Adam Curry: pay pal Hello everybody
Unknown: Wow Sakala 20 hit play on am Paula Thank
Adam Curry: you Marco always appreciate appreciate your
support of the index and the work we do. Oh hold on a second.
I'm sorry. Did I How did I miss this? Mr. Robot just came in
with his first live boost. Thanks for the love of my life
Mr. Robot for the help. Oh, anonymous I'm sorry. My first
live was thanks for the love of my life. Mr. Robot for the help
go podcasting. 100,000 SATs.
Unknown: Sakala 20 is Blaze on him.
Adam Curry: That's the love of Mr. Robot's life. All right.
Well, Johnny works.
Dave Jones: Word that is an entrance into the boardroom.
Adam Curry: That's a you just barging into the boardroom with?
Dave Jones: With a with a four pack a turbo Buzzsprout? Also
$500
Unknown: Sakala 20 blades on the Impala. Yes, thank
Dave Jones: you. Congratulations to you. To to you guys for
sticking with that podcast understanding and putting it
together. Yes. That is not an easy thing to do.
Adam Curry: Get in the way politics is not easy.
Dave Jones: Yes, not and just get just getting. And getting
five people on the same page is hard and much less 15 or 22
group. Thanks, guys. And while we're while we're there,
fountain, Oscar marry $200. Man,
Adam Curry: we are just Blaze laminate this value for value it
works.
Dave Jones: And, and I have a will get this whatever this
mystery 502 At five o'clock at 5:02am in the morning is. I
don't know if this is some sort of a joke. But I will find out
what this problem is and fix it on the API.
Adam Curry: Oh, and and I just want to thank everyone who's
who's supporting us this week over the past two weeks, Dave
and I actually had to pay taxes.
Dave Jones: That was not fun. But it was
Adam Curry: not fun. So we appreciate you filling it out.
Because you know, even though we don't take money out of the
index for anything, we do pay taxes over everything that comes
in Yeah. So
Dave Jones: I don't know if it's this way in other countries, but
in in the US if you have a partnership, you the income from
the business goes, Pat is what they call passes through to
directly to your personal return. So it's like you made
it's like you made all of the money that the business made.
Even though that money is not in your bank. It's in the hands of
business. Yes. So your that tax bill is not fun, but
Adam Curry: we thank you. You've helped us with that.
Dave Jones: I've got guests who this is somebody gave us $100
Okay, and this is an this is somebody this is I want you to
guess
Adam Curry: while you're getting any hints no Just someone I
know.
Dave Jones: personally know it someone's been he's been on the
show though. And he writes an app I the podcast
Adam Curry: Franco? Yes. Yeah.
Unknown: Sakala 20 is blade on I am Paula
Adam Curry: has automatic baby. Yeah,
Dave Jones: the reason I did that the reason I said I wanted
you to guess, is because you have this uncanny ability to
guess stuff like this with with almost no information. No, you
know, you have this gift right? Yeah, I guess I heard you do
this for years where? Where somebody will say, you know,
we're John will say, a guest this and it'll give you hardly
any information to go on. And you will nail it.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Or come pretty close. Come pretty. I don't know
how you. I don't know, either. I don't know. But you said when
you said app, I'm like,
Dave Jones: it could have been so many people miss Steven B.
Could have been Martin could have been Jason from
Adam Curry: I don't know why. And I don't know. It's neural
networking, because Casta Matic was also pretty high on the list
of transactions recently. He's wired into it and I guess I
guess I don't know. It's crazy. I'm sorry. It's talent. They're
raw.
Dave Jones: That was a click Beatty, you know, mere mortals
pie. We're going to submit your graphs caring for the mere
mortals podcast 2222. He says, fuck it. I'll step up and try
this out. You've mentioned the V for V consultant idea before
Adam and if the guy who runs the V for V podcast won't do it,
then who will? Ah Oh, Aaron's gonna dip his toe There you
Adam Curry: go, man. She's at Courtney Kocak on on Twitter.
And I replied to her so you can find it from my timeline and
just tell her I sent you
Dave Jones: the pod father sent you Yeah,
Adam Curry: she's ready for it man. She just needs a little bit
of help and look listen to the content listen to the content.
It's stuff that people will boost they'll boost
Dave Jones: Oh, I like that. This is this is a very
appropriate the chyron would take this mantle V for Vega.
Adam Curry: Yeah, what a great great great guy. Go go go go.
Dave Jones: Gene mean 1337 lead boost he says having my deviated
septum thanks made me so much healthier. Dave Dave's health
podcast is what this is. I like this. Okay. So, Jean bean again.
1337. He says, I vote to keep the dollar amounts in the
charts, Dave. Okay. All right. We'll keep it we'll keep it.
Karen again. 20 To 22 pieces. And Aussie swear a lot in
general. Or at least use a fair bit of slang that's just British
crudeness. A try typing in Australian prude in Google and
it tries correcting it to pride. Thanks, Google. Jean Bane.
10,000 says he says my contribution to the Balian Oh,
okay.
Unknown: Thank you very good.
Dave Jones: froze ear at 80 8080. He says, Janet Yellen
sounds like a female Verner Hertzog floored Jo Jo W. Sasha
Richards. No, no, thank you, Joe. Thank you Joe Clark in my
buddy 25,000 SATs, he says octogenarian kleptocratic
oligarchs are looting the system in the collapse stage of the US
Empire. Mid wits who failed up because of a broken system and
money thank God for Bitcoin the orange pill that is also a white
pill. Boost boost boosts right
Unknown: nice
Dave Jones: as a good note, Brian mozzie 33 333 through
fountain he says double check the tally coin a donated on
chain March 12 Boost Oh,
Unknown: I will check on will check um she says March 12.
Adam Curry: Well, that would have been before that one before
I last show.
Unknown: Did I read?
Adam Curry: I think I have a feeling I read that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think you read it. I remember you talking
about about mozzie I think he really wants
Adam Curry: to take it sweet sweet time to load. Oh, here it
is. Tally coin. Let's see. March 12. No, that was that was Drib
No, no testing tally coin was Drib be Mossy. 48,865 And that
was March and I was positive. I think I meant mentioned but if
not thank you again. Thank you again. Yes, thank
Dave Jones: you. Color Mona 6969. Through fountain and he
says saying a YouTube video is a podcast is like saying a comic
book is a TV show called mana sir Libra moon.
Unknown: I totally agree.
Dave Jones: Ahlborn Citadelle 50,000 SATs and he says boost
boost. Oh, here we go. Chris last. Chris from Jupiter
broadcasting 222,222 sets
Unknown: Sakala 20 is Blaze on I am Paula.
Adam Curry: Wow. Thank you. Thank you, Chris.
Dave Jones: He says, Hey, gentlemen, some good news. Linux
fest northwest, the best and largest open source community
event in the country is back in October after COVID break. I'm
putting the word out that we're hoping to get someone in the
podcast in 2.0 community to hold a talk call for papers is open
now details at Linux Linux fest northwest.org. It's like a
party. Hey,
Adam Curry: are those guys doing live shows? Yeah,
Dave Jones: I don't think so. I think they're, they're zeroing
in on it though.
Adam Curry: Because I can just imagine I listen to their to
their show often, frequently, and I haven't boosted in a while
but yeah, but man if I was listening to a live show, it's
it's made for boosting live. No, it totally would have been total
fun with it.
Dave Jones: Thank you, Chris. Appreciate that, bro. Oh, Roy
scheinfeld Yeah, 54321 no note. He just says podcast. index.org
Adam Curry: Whoa,
Unknown: whoa, okay, well,
Dave Jones: how you doing booster. Thanks,
Adam Curry: Roy. I got a call Roy.
Dave Jones: Let's see. I've got I've got a double delimiter
here. So I'm just gonna read the first delimiter from comic strip
blogger. 30 3015. This was the shortened delimiter from last
week. God says how do you Adam and Dave since Adam wanted me to
boost also when you don't have a show that you actually said
that?
Adam Curry: Here's a commission blogger always lets us know if
if he got if all the splits work, which I appreciate he does
it for for carrying the keeper as well. Okay. And he says, Hey,
are you guys doing the show or not? And I want to know if I
should do so I said, I think I said Well, you know the server's
still work while we're while we're even though we don't have
a show. And you took that to heart and I appreciate that.
Appreciate it, man. Thank you.
Dave Jones: Okay. He says it's just a funny way to say it.
Since Adam wanted me to boost also when you don't have this
week. So here it is. Yoast.
Adam Curry: Thank you combinator blogger.
Dave Jones: Thanks. ESB. 6969 from a citizen. Blessings to you
saviors of the universe. Maybe not the universe, maybe podcast.
Macintosh 20 103 found in and he says Eurodollar University is a
great podcast. Okay. It's not a podcast. Oh, wait, it actually
it is a podcast. I think he does have a Python is good. But I
watched it on YouTube. You're right Macintosh, I hope noster
sorts out V for V type support soon. The protocol and the basic
ideas, decentralized free speech that is censorship resistant and
can even provide semi private communication is very important,
in my opinion, is early days, early early days. We will see
how it works out on a completely different thought. Could we get
returns implanted in boosts? Returns?
Adam Curry: Oh, so you can boost back up somebody?
Dave Jones: Okay, on a completely different thought.
Could we get returns and planted in boosts? I would love to be
able to have separate paragraphs. Oh, man. Oh, well,
that
Adam Curry: depends what app you're using. Yeah. And
Dave Jones: you've and remember Macintosh, you've only got a
very limited amount of message space. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah. Yeah, that but I do find that a problem as
well. When I use I think almost any, any app. Except curio casts
or because it's a web based. There's no spellcheck. There's
no no autocomplete of like, you know, I'm you have to put in the
apostrophe yourself. Yeah, yeah, I understand. I understand the
problem, but yeah, it's limited space to true
Dave Jones: Yeah, you were the TLV piggybacks inside the onion.
In the lightning payment. Hey, baby,
Adam Curry: can I can I put my T O V on your onion? I piggyback
my TLV on your onion.
Dave Jones: There's seven millimeters of bone. So yes, he
says have some paragraphs he says go podcasting. Yes, I hear
ya podcast 8008 Boob donation from our Davis 87 He says in the
morning gents ITM love see love the stet talk please defrag me
Oh,
Adam Curry: that for a while. You got it.
Dave Jones: Sir. I think that strips got Little one, Sir
Michael 10 case that's 10,000 SATs he says where's the new
episode? I need my Friday fix upon namespace talk real time
might start listening to more net casts.
Adam Curry: Sorry we weren't here. We weren't here. No, don't
Dave Jones: do that. Jay Moon 5033 He says at work on a Friday
night it's just not the same without the boardroom meeting
from earlier library.
Adam Curry: Same for me. I missed it too. I was doing it. I
miss doing it.
Dave Jones: I love sushi. 1000 SATs through cast semantics is
test boost from CAST Matic Well, I love sushi.
Adam Curry: Yeah, she is boosting a lot and boosts other
shows as well. Thank you. I love sushi.
Dave Jones: Nicholas be 58 50,000 says ooh, Nicholas
says boost
Unknown: got it boost.
Dave Jones: Just listening 1000 SATs and just listening says GE
Griffin in the Creature from Jekyll Island, quote, Secrets of
the temple was critical of the Federal Reserve because of its
failures. But according to greater these were not caused by
any defect in the system itself. But were merely were the result
of economic factors which are so complicated that the good men
who have struggled to make the system work just haven't been
able to figure it all out. But don't worry, folks, they're
working on it.
Adam Curry: That's streaming I'm sure they are.
Dave Jones: I I agree. Oh, he has a follow up here he says
this is post quote he says that is exactly the kind of
powderpuff criticism which is acceptable in our mainstream
media. Dave I'm slowly working my way through 60s at the temple
and I'm loving the occasional tidbits when you mention it
maybe we could hear roundup of your thoughts when I'm reading
it
Adam Curry: yeah exactly. Make us make us all completely into
Unix
Dave Jones: the I agree in this like I'm not reading it for
incredibly harsh criticism of the Federal Reserve it's really
history to me like I want to hear what was going on at the
time from somebody who was there get a little pig militant but ya
know there's I'm sure that's fair. C dubs one on one a one
binary boost he says I say boosted boosted good things to
say sir looks a lot 1337 lead boost he says oh Lord, bass haze
me begin series of boosts and then how many is this? Oh my
god, this is like seven boosts.
Unknown: Wow.
Adam Curry: So let's see seeing this. Yeah, we're actually
looking at it now. 1-234-567-8588 gifts 1234567 I
get eight.
Dave Jones: Okay, we'll see. Let me try to skim the low because
this too much is like like seven paragraphs of material here. The
folks at Jupiter broadcasting are killing it right now. And
more of you should know about it. JB and their audience, an
army of highly technical computer geeks are building the
tooling and workflows necessary to automate instead of
generating not only their website as shows release, but
eventually also spit out a podcasting 2.0 compliant RSS
feed, complete with advanced features like alternate
enclosures chapters lit tags for live shows and AI generated
transcripts JRB JB are building a completely self hosted back in
infrastructure to automatically process shows using available
open source tools like Hugo whisper and peer tube and tying
them together with their own tooling which they also released
as open source. This can become a monumental if not Cornerstone
public good for the PC 2.0 ecosystem. They have a very
talented community, but I think they might welcome help and
input as this could be such a great boon for podcasters
everywhere. They do a live video stream of shows one of their
listeners create a Docker container
Adam Curry: beautiful Borlaug.
Dave Jones: No this was Sir lurks a
Adam Curry: lot. Oh, because Borlaug did this how many how
many was each boost?
Dave Jones: 1337
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Alicia booth. Yes, got it, got
it got it.
Dave Jones: The hitless peer tube that you could spin up on a
$5 virtual host in the cloud and minutes on demand. The
implications of this are truly monumental. hitless peer tube is
what he's saying, yeah, if you can automatically spin up peer
to peer. It's also
Adam Curry: a good show title, headless peer tube, headless
Dave Jones: periods. If you can automatically spin up peer to
peers in data centers in the geographic regions, where
they're most needed during a live show you have a real viable
alternative to relying on platforms like YouTube with
their massive content delivery networks, you can spin up your
own lightning infrastructure. Light infrastructure on demand.
Adam Curry: I'm sure looks a lot might want to do his own
podcast.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's what Yeah. So this two lane are
working on become if you can't support JB directly, they
consider supporting projects like peer to mean, I agree.
They're doing great stuff. And all that is. I mean, it's just
so important as talking about office hours, okay, so office
hours is the show that where Chris over there goes into sort
of like the back, the back end. That's a good show. Yeah. And I
gotta do I think people should listen to that. Yeah, thank you,
sir. Looks like that. Thanks for just pointing out all of that.
It seemed more okay. So Borlaug, is when you're talking 10,000
SATs several times, several times. He says, I'm trying an
experiment ready dot dot dot and then say nothing else. Yes.
Thank you for putting up with that test. Yep.
Adam Curry: But he has seven times 10,000 SATs or eight times
10,000 steps 80,000 says what really love that and then I just
got a boost coming in 3333 Dave forgot to read my second fat
booster gram. I haven't forgotten it's coming. I know if
we're doing it in order CSB. He's up early. He's up early or
late.
Dave Jones: Let's see. Okay, you already got tonne Rick or you
got Mike. You got less. Yep. All right. So we're good. We're good
there. Did CSB this there's the delimiter Yep. 30 3015, DJ and
AC. Your magnanimous approach to the field of podcasting propels
the medium beyond stratospheric popularity. Let the in five in
be cut to death by the shattered shards of the glass ceiling you
blast through each week. There in the remnants of your wake,
you'll find AI dot cooking podcast, a podcast documenting
that which they call artificial and intelligent. Hosted by
ardent Beatles champion Gregory Forman. Yo.
Adam Curry: So CSB does the as has really been, and I don't
know if he writes it or, or Gregory Forman writes it I
accused him of using chat GPT which he adamantly refutes. But
his boosts have been so I mean, it's every single show, every
single show I do. Now Tina even said, I'm gonna listen to this
damn show. I'm gonna listen to AI doc cooking. I gotta listen
to it. Now. I don't know if she has yet but she threatened to.
So those are and we have some monthlies. Maybe.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that is called that is the biblical strategy of
the baker going and beating on the door until you come to the
door. And so,
Adam Curry: yes, it works. It works. It works. It works.
Dave Jones: We do have some monthlies. We've got Trevor from
Xena where if $5 Paul Erskine $11.14 Michael Gagan $5 Charles
current $5 Shawn McCune $20 Thank you, Sean James Sullivan
$10 cone glotzbach $5 Christopher Raymer $10 Jordan
Dunnville $10 Lesley Martin $2 Michael Kimmerer $5.33 Dred
Scott the Bruce Wayne of podcasting $15 Aaron Renaud $5,
and Pedro gun calvess $5.
Adam Curry: Wow, thank you all so much. This is two weeks worth
that's why he's a little bit longer. But you're listening to
the value for value model in its full glory. This is how you do
it. If you want to learn more about value for value, we have
value for value dot info, which Gigi and I have put together
with some help from others, by the way, GitHub for that as well
if you want to contribute to it. And of course you can support us
through your Fiat fun coupons by going to podcast index.org Not
the bottom of red donate button for PayPal. There's also one for
the tally coin for those who want to send us humongous
amounts via on chain. And of course we appreciate anyone
using a modern podcast app you can find it a podcast apps.com
look for anything that has value for value in it and boost boost
boost boost boost away. We really appreciate it. Thank you
so much. You keep the server's running. You keep everything
motivated. You keep the boardroom stocked with bagels,
we are very grateful.
Dave Jones: Somebody somebody needs to hire Stacey goers. She
lost her job.
Adam Curry: I sent her a message today. Yeah, I did too. I didn't
quite I mean, we know where I didn't quite feel comfortable
enough by saying hey, you should help this. This woman out with
with private parts. I don't know where
Dave Jones: Karen's got that one in the bag now but I
Adam Curry: did say hey anything we can do she said she got a lot
of people from the podcasting community reached out to her
which is always nice it shows course because it is a community
and connection is production. People got it. We got to stick
together because we're always under assault from somewhere.
Dave Jones: So she you know, she was our man on the inside that
NPR data at a headache at NPR than at a gas. Yeah. Yeah. So
she's never actually stayed anywhere long enough to see that
to see 2.0 Produce fruit. So when cash is gonna bail? She No,
no, I'm saying like she was at NPR was a big advocate for 2.0.
And she left him with a cast before that came to fruition.
Yeah, I know. And then the same thing here some of our hope a
cast follows through on their yes on the journey PSP.
Adam Curry: Exactly. And if anyone's, you know, Stacy that
she's at Stacey on podcasting, next on social if you're looking
for it, reach out. All right, brother Dave, you know, almost
well, actually two hours on the nose. Not bad for this board
meeting. I'd been in much longer board meetings that were a lot
less fun.
Dave Jones: It's almost time for my next round of Tylenol.
Adam Curry: Tylenol and your beef milkshake. Yes.
Dave Jones: I've already been milkshake to myself to death
today. Filled with beef
Adam Curry: feel better brother. I'm sorry. Thanks for Thanks for
coming to the coming to the board meeting despite the fever
and all that get some get some rest fluids, etc.
Dave Jones: plenty of fluids. Yep, some. Some, some love some
love. You've got an issue.
Adam Curry: Okay. All right. All the love baby. I love you so
much. All right. Have a great weekend, brother. We'll talk to
you next week to everybody else. podcast 2.0 The board meeting.
Thanks for attending. See you next week right here
Unknown: have been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit podcast
index.org For more information on the show