Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0 For April 21 2023, episode 130
for all the drummers out there. Oh man, it's Friday. Once again,
it is time for podcasting. 2.0 the only boardroom that won't
accept a PowerPoint pitch from anybody. That's what we do hear.
We're running with scissors and scotch tape. Everything
happening in the current day age of modern podcasting, everything
going on with the namespace podcast index.org. And of course
what we're all yapping about a podcast index dot social. I'm
Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in
Alabama, the coolest cucumber in disorganized product
development. Say hello to my friend on the other end, ladies
and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones.
Dave Jones: We get the show is going down. It's going downhill.
Adam Curry: Why were plummeting? What do you mean? We're
plummeting? Oh, we're plummeting in the in the fountain chart?
Dave Jones: No, we're in the OP threes. Have you seen our op
three page? It looks like a stuck look at the stock market.
This is down down down down?
Adam Curry: To be honest. I never look at the OP three
pages. I don't have to that's not how value for value works. I
don't care. Can I pay the rent is the question I ask every
month. That's pretty much it. And if I can't, then then we
have a problem.
Dave Jones: Well, based on the donations today, we can't pay
the rent.
Adam Curry: You know, it has been tough across the board.
It's of course it's tax season. Although people should be
starting to get refunds pretty soon. And we certainly encourage
you to give your refund to the project.
Dave Jones: It's like one of those sleazy businesses or like
we'll give you an advance on you
Adam Curry: know, you don't yet know I mean, you know what we
John and I have successfully asked people to consider their
their their tax return as a bonus, and share some of that
with the show was value for value and people have done it
consistently. It works really well. Not sleazy, you're talking
about
Dave Jones: you know, those like, we'll give you a will
advance your tax refund. And we'll just keep you know, well.
Don't worry. We'll only keep like 15%
Adam Curry: Yes, I know those all too well. And here we go.
And people heard your call and once and we're we're racing.
It's the lid stuff that works and we are indeed lit that's
something you get with the with a with a funky, fresh new
podcast app. Let's see we have podcast attic, podcast, Guru,
pod verse, curio caster two of those at minimum with value for
value in there. But just the idea that you get your your
stream, you get your chat room, you get everything all where you
get your podcasts and of course, in I think any podcasts and to
point out almost every single one of them. You can import your
old podcast subscriptions. Can you actually use you can export
them from Spotify? Probably not. You know, what am I thinking?
Dave Jones: That's crazy talk, there's no way they would? They
would they will do value for value before they let you export
your feeds and OPML.
Adam Curry: Did I read that? Spotify has capitulated.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think they're capitulating across the
board. You hear they were talking about them being? I saw
James's coverage of this and they were like, We're open.
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. We know that they've applied
instead of saying, hey, you know what, we really couldn't make
the money we expected to offer the exclusives. Instead, they
say we've we've applied a windowing strategy,
Dave Jones: like the windowing strategy.
Adam Curry: Now a windowing strategy does it traditionally
comes from I believe, originally from motion pictures, where
you're first in the theater, then then you're on to like pay
movie channels back in the day, maybe HBO or Cinemax or
Showtime. And or maybe even pay per view first, I think you
could do on demand, and then it was one of the one of the
subscription services, then it would be you know, chopped up
into a movie of the week. And then it would be in syndication.
And that's your windowing strategy, but it just doesn't
make sense anymore. I mean, there used to be even reasoning
strategies. Do you remember that when you could buy a DVD? It's
probably still the same way. You could buy a DVD in America, but
then you couldn't play it in Europe.
Dave Jones: Unless you the Blu Ray Blu Ray was saying is the
same way. Yeah, yeah. It's like It's like region encoded or
whatever I mean, which is, which is so stupid because you can buy
a region free player. Yeah, the whole thing is just dumb. And
you only
Adam Curry: allowed to switch regions three times and then you
brick your device. I remember those days.
Dave Jones: These the streaming services though, in general are
just sucking wind. Like music streaming and movie streaming.
Adam Curry: Everybody's losing money. Everybody's losing money.
The Paramount plot lost $3 billion. Oh, just start up. They
own the content.
Dave Jones: My favorite, my favorite, it's so bad. It's so
bad. Now. That so if you if you only have a subscription to HBO
Max. Let's just Let's just do this. You know, hypothetical
sanity check. If you have a subscription to HBO Max. Yeah.
The one thing you would expect to be on HBO Max and available
at all times? Is the content that HBO max that HBO themselves
created? That's your own show. Yeah, that would seem logical.
Yes. That's not the case and why they've now they've now given
exclusive rights to some of their shows to other streaming
platforms and taking it off their own platform. No way. We
only got through mimulus Only got through like, halfway
through season two of Westworld. Yeah, we went just on a on a
rare kid free night. The other night we were like, Hey, let's
let's go. Catch up. Try to catch up on Westworld. Yeah, we
couldn't find it. On Max. They they, they gave it as an
exclusive to some other streaming platform and they've
taken it off their
Adam Curry: pathetic is that money? Yeah, I know. Oh, hold
on.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Oh, nice.
Adam Curry: 88,888 from the Bruce Wayne podcast and Dr.
Scott. Thank you. And there's an anonymous person out there.
Unknown: Shot Caller 20. His blades on him. Paula
Adam Curry: 121212121212. Anonymous. That's big from
anonymous. Thank you very much anonymous, and
Dave Jones: we'd love Yes, Nathan, the MK Ultra chat is
running this week I posted.
Adam Curry: So how do I get into MK Ultra chat? Is that? Did you
post that somewhere?
Dave Jones: Almost just pasted in and hit Enter on my private
key. That was no no, no.
Adam Curry: Although fun, although
Unknown: I would have been a ball. So how
Adam Curry: do people get into that? I mean, how did Nathan get
it? How did you even know about it?
Dave Jones: You put the link in the chat? Oh, I didn't see that.
Okay. Yeah, it's better now. It's better. Still got it's
still rough around the edges. But it's, but it's better.
Adam Curry: It remembers me. That's cool. Okay.
Dave Jones: How'd you get an A? Oh,
Adam Curry: yeah. Remember me right away? Oh, give permission
authorized forever. Okay.
Dave Jones: Oh, you're so this was what was wrong with it last
week is the son the signing from the extensions. From the
extension, the nostre extensions was not working. So that was
throwing everything off, that I had to go deep dive into that
turns out that the nostre tools JavaScript library, which
underpins the nos 2x, browser extension for noster. Those are
two different versions. Well, this
Adam Curry: is Oh, it's not working for me. Actually,
interestingly enough. Let's see, what's it doing? Well, I see my
little icon there. So I'm, I'm in the boardroom. I type
something like Hello. And I click on enter and it doesn't
show up.
Dave Jones: That you logged in. Well, I
Adam Curry: didn't have to log in. It just showed up. My
picture. Was there. Do I have to log in again,
Dave Jones: do no do a hard refresh on your browser do like
a control shift are hard because you may you may have the old
JavaScript code from previous iteration.
Unknown: Okay, let's see. I don't like
Dave Jones: the old JavaScript browser extension talk.
Adam Curry: No, it's not working man.
Dave Jones: Why did you? What a downer? Well, I'm looking for
me.
Adam Curry: Okay, I'm gonna do another hard refresh. Our
refresh. The men's socks is broken. Are you
Dave Jones: already logged in? Yes. How do I log in, log out
and log back in? How do I let you log out by clicking on your
little avatar at the top? Let's
Adam Curry: log out. Okay, bye. Okay, I go back to the rosters
announced this chat to your noster feed. Sure. I'll be fun.
Okay.
Dave Jones: Just Adam curry just entered the room. Yes. Hey, Oh,
okay. Well, hey. All right. There
Adam Curry: we go. All right. Hey, it works nice. So let's
talk about that right away. What what are we doing with this
thing? This is cool. I think.
Dave Jones: Well, it's funny in a funny way, this encompasses a
lot of stuff that we kind of need to talk about. Okay. Um,
Adam Curry: oh, um, hold on one sec. I'm just looking at okay.
I'm just looking at my my nostro account and it says I joined the
live stream chat. Yeah, that's right. Oh, so now people from
the snap store can come in nostril from nostril? Yeah. Oh,
that's kind of cool.
Dave Jones: Yeah, nice. If you have a nostril account, identity
already. You bring it you can bring it to the MK Ultra chat
and just log straight in. And then if you if you go up there
to your next to your profile next to your profile picture at
the top and uncheck that box. Yeah. Then you whenever you post
something, it will not only go into the chat, it will also get
posted back out to your nostril relays. So it's a two way
street. It comes in and out.
Adam Curry: This is pretty dynamite. Dave. I like it. Yeah.
Okay. Okay, now, this is MK Ultra. So Supposedly, this would
also work with IRC when there's a bridge built to it. And then
what I type in here would also go back to IRC and what comes
from IRC would also come in here.
Dave Jones: And, and activity pub. Wow, all of all of the
above. So the way you launch this thing is with Oh, James is
listening live that's rare for him. So there's, the way this
thing sort of works is when you launch the the WebSocket. back
end for this, you give it a unique identifier, which becomes
that Cid equals up in the URL bar. Yeah. And then you also
give it a a private Oh, excuse me a public key. So this, this
would all like you, you can see the linkages that would happen
here. So you could give it an activity pub account you can
give it you give it all these things. And then it begins to
pull all this will start to pull all this stuff in the the final
bit of the nostril part of this I'm doing is trying to get as
the subscribe the nostril subscriber process, which is
which will go out there. And if you hashtag the session ID
that's the ID equals the web, the blah, blah, blah. So if you
hashtag that on a nostril relay, it would pull those posts back
into the chat. Wow. Okay, that's pretty cool. That is proving to
be pretty challenging. I can imagine it's more dis more
difficult than I thought it was going to be. But, so I went I
went to the Bitcoin Bible study Monday night,
Adam Curry: is that what is called Bitcoin Bible study? No,
that's just what I call it. The Bitcoin meter because you know,
there is a Thank God it's Bitcoin going on in Miami. They
keep asking me to come to Christian Bitcoin. Yeah, yeah,
no, seriously is. Yeah, it's the it's the guy who wrote the two
guys who wrote the book, thank God for Bitcoin and they have a
conference and pastors calm and all kinds of people come there.
I mean, if it wasn't Miami, I would you know, I would consider
it
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, like we've already spent way too much
time in Miami for your entire life. Thank
Adam Curry: you. Excellent point. All right. So the Bitcoin
Bible study and let me guess there was a couple of gnostic
dudes there.
Dave Jones: There was there was a really big nostre dude, their
guy named Randy from the Bitcoin what's it called the Bitcoin?
Adam Curry: Park Bitcoin barking? Market? National. Sure,
sure. Sure. Yeah. Which is the old Florida Georgia Line
studios.
Dave Jones: Is that what that okay, they converted it well,
no, those
Adam Curry: those guys broke up the band but basically imploded.
And they just had opened these really cool studio, so they had
to do something with it. So I think it became Bitcoin. Bitcoin
Park.
Dave Jones: Well, the super nice dude. And he's like, he's like
Mr. noster. He's all over it. Mr. noster. Jones brand
ambassador.
Adam Curry: Yeah.
Dave Jones: So we were you know, I got it was great, though. I
got to chat with him and like, pepper him with all the
questions because I'm knee deep in this code. And I found out
some I found out some some things. Okay. So my question
right off the bat was, if I, I'm having, you know, have you have
difficulty finding identities? Yes.
Adam Curry: Because because they don't post the relays don't
crossover. Right.
Dave Jones: He said, That noster dot wine. Do you know that?
Really? No. Okay, it's nostrud dot wine, like the drink Wi Fi.
He said that relay cross posts, amongst other relays. Oh, cool.
Yeah, that's basically it looks for and it looks for users that
come in, and it finds new user identities and reel in and
reposts those metadata events to all the other relies it knows
about. So it's sort of like it's, it's, we call it spreading
the, the identities around the network as best it can. This is
obviously this is a good thing, you know, for sure. But it's
also very centralized. It's a single Oh,
Adam Curry: no, of course, and, and it's bound to fail because
unlike what we did, there's no you know, there's there's no
incentive model. It's just not built got into it. Yeah, you can
say, oh people, would you please zap me. But there's not really
an incentive model.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And so that's. So that was kind of my first
learnings. That was this. This thing is kind of what we thought
it was. It's it's got, it's got weak points, for sure. And
they're being shored up by sort of kind citizens and instant and
single points of failure.
Adam Curry: And single points of failure. If anyone else was
Noster, hips, kind citizens and single points of failure.
Dave Jones: But it was funny because this this is like I get
it sort of touched with my journey with within this entire
thing, because I've been struggling to figure out exactly
what it is that I'm trying to accomplish with this. I mean,
there's an immediate there's an immediate thing, which is
obviously live chat room. For for a podcaster. That's easy to
spin up and down. Right? That's, that's the obvious and that
there's a bigger issue.
Adam Curry: It's still running on the podcast index.
Infrastructure.
Dave Jones: Yes, yes. This one is because it's a test server,
but this could be Dockerized in five minutes and spun up
anywhere you wanted to spin it up on Umbral wherever it doesn't
matter. Cool. Very, very low,
Adam Curry: not really on an umbrella because you need to
then have SSL certs and all that stuff. It's not that simple.
Dave Jones: Yeah, well, you could Yeah. True. I mean, if you
had if you have us, you could run it on a is running on a $5.
Net.
Adam Curry: Yeah, okay. Got ya got it.
Dave Jones: Very, very low resource. So, you know, this,
this, the broader thing here, that goes beyond just this
immediate use case of of live chat? is where do you Central?
Where do you decentralized or centralized things? And I think
this is sort of a theme of what we're of what we're kind of
dealing with across the board. A lot of various issues. Yes.
Adam Curry: Yes. A lot of things being discussed on the GitHub.
Yes.
Dave Jones: So, you know, a thing can be here. So here's
the, here's the first sort of like, piece that, because I was
talking, I was chatting with Alex and I was like, trying to,
you know, he was saying, you know, what exactly is it that
you're trying to do? And I was like, you know, I know what I'm
trying to do, but I don't know how to explain it to you. And
I'm glad he asked me the question because otherwise I
would I would just be still living in my head. So this is
this idea of where does the centralization or
decentralization happen at what point in the in the stack so to
speak, if you think about it, noster really isn't that much
different. It wants to be different. But in practice, it's
really not that much different than an activity than a mastodon
server. You could have so look at what MK Ultra is, or is about
to be a private relay. With chat. Okay, so that's not much
different
Adam Curry: than an activity pub server with lying around.
Dave Jones: Yeah, sure. Mastodon Yeah. So that's the, if you
think about it like that. What what Matt, what noster wants to
be in this is sort of the weakness of the way that that
has been talked about and sold is right out of the gate. It's
always, you know, censorship resistant.
Adam Curry: Pura Pura Vida, Pura Vida.
Dave Jones: Yeah, right. It's not it's not answerable. I can
guarantee you if China wanted to censor and get rid of all of the
noster relays they could do it in two seconds. It's just not
that's not that's not the way to talk about this thing. And it's
also not It's not Bitcoin no noster doesn't have anything to
do with Bitcoin it's a completely different thing. So
it's just happens to be that a Bitcoin guy wrote in so all the
Bitcoin guys it's
Adam Curry: it's like the beef initiative is not really
connected to Bitcoin just happens that Bitcoiners
gravitated towards buying beef from ranchers with Bitcoin you
can buy with your credit card. It's the same as the same thing
it's just associated and then but they did add the zaps and
that you know, which is all Lightning Network and that kind
of they are. That's something that we discovered early on is
when you give people a way to use their Satoshis, or the
Lightning Network, they will use them.
Dave Jones: Yes. Yep. Good point. That that's like that's
the the first thing that sort of like hits you is the identities
part is what drives the whole thing. That's that's sort of the
key. Yes. Genius part of this. Yep. And it's not that nobody
else thought has thought of distributed identities. It's
just that I think that nostril made it very easily, ballistic
system.
Adam Curry: And I would add to that, that exactly what you did
here. And I think this is one of the coolest things built with
noster. So far, if you don't mind me saying, because what I
don't mind you saying? And I'll say it a couple more times one
of the coolest things ever built for Nasir. And why is it cool?
Because the minute I'm signing into this chat room, which is
you know, connect to something else, I can immediately post
that to my nostril feed, you know, so you can you can post to
a different relay a different community, a different group,
whatever it is, that I find that incredibly cool, because I did
it without a whole lot of rigmarole and cross posting, I
just I just checked the box and say, yeah, oh, yeah, let
everyone know that I'm over here. And then people can use
that same identity and come in or they can spin up a new one,
of course, and they can come over and come in here. So it's I
think I've always said it's like the idea that I don't have to
sign on to everything. That's just the stuff that it works
with. It's almost like like a booster gram split by out of
split, boom, I got stats, you know, this world that I like
living in.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's a good point. So like the throwaway
nature of the identities is what concerned me at the very
beginning, I was like, you know, I'm very I'm worried about the
these these digital identities, the encryption encrypted, I
don't want you know, I don't want that it's kind of freaky.
And so the fact that you can throw them away guy who
Adam Curry: uses LastPass I mean, come on.
Dave Jones: Well, like there's I don't know if there's this old
episode of Robot Chicken, you know, Robot Chicken. No. Like
the I forgot what she was on Comedy Central for a while. But
there's this old Star Wars Episode of Robot Chicken where
he's like, where the, the employees of the Deathstar.
They're like, they're talking to the new guy. And they're saying,
okay, look, if Darth Vader acts like he's choking you like with
his forced choke thing? Yeah, just just go with him pretend
that you died. Because he really doesn't have that power, but he
thinks he does. And if he knows that he doesn't have it, then
he'll just kill us with his lightsaber. So pretend to die
when he tries to fit in like choke you in the air with this.
I got it I got the and then go out of when they when the gas
come and take drag you out of the room. Then you can read you
can dress up in different clothes and put on put on some
glasses and come back in the room and change your name and
you're good to go. Right. That's what this that's what this is
this yester identities exam.
Unknown: Shot Carla 20 blades on am Paula.
Adam Curry: You said magic words. Dave? We're not paying
the rent this week. Yeah, there's a 101 a 1010. From Mike
Newman. Thank you, Mike. Still here on my boostin keep on
keeping on sally forth. This is the way.
Dave Jones: Yes. Thank you, Mikey. Mike. Appreciate it.
Yeah, but see me with that. So you're communicating with a
single server in this instance. And that is really not that's
not a bad thing. I think that's really where where this comes
down to is like, where in the stack? Are we going to
decentralize podcasts. Let's just take a step back.
Podcasting is a very centralized thing. We don't we don't think
about it that way. But there's very few CD look, take a look at
John Spurlock's analysis of how many CD ends there are
Adam Curry: like eight or something is that's
Dave Jones: yeah, and not a no and probably 70% of podcasts are
served out of about three. There, there's very little. So
once you get back past there and get down into the sort of like
bottom 5%, then you start to get a lot of dispersion. But for the
most part, podcasting is very centralized on the delivery
front. And it's something we're not going to change and we don't
necessarily need to change that. We really don't like that.
Changing that if you want to go let's say you wanted to go fully
decentralized all the way down the stack to the bottom. That is
difficult, very difficult. You're gonna have to start using
like a DHT type system, and that kind of thing and you're, you're
going you're not we're not going to get anywhere with that in the
current The landscape because the need is not there. Right
now, if, if the need ever became severe, like if there was ever a
huge like, you know, I don't know government crackdowns or
whatever you want to say something like that, well, then,
then those other solutions are there to be rolled and we could
roll them. But for the what for the way that things are now
Adam Curry: really don't have to worry about it too much. No. And
Dave Jones: so I think that the the sort of, I'm thinking of it
is more or less in terms of decentralization than sort of re
centralization. And what I mean is like, if you it's not like
oxygen, where it's just available in the air everywhere
around you. That's not really what we want to go for. We want
to go for more of a model of like gas stations or libraries,
where if this one's closed,
Adam Curry: you can move on to down. Here's, here's me
immediately when I want from this, is, I want the IRC bridge.
But that's not even the most important thing, strangely
enough, I want the boost bot. So and here's a way actually, that
here's a money making opportunity. These things pop
into my head, I will gladly put a split into my value block in
order to have a chat set up and hosted, which includes any
booster grams that come into that split? How about that?
Yeah,
Dave Jones: well, that was the original idea for MK Ultra. So
they didn't like it in booster grams as well. I like it. So it
becomes a huge supercharged so remember, the ultimate goal also
of MK Ultra is that, at the end of the chat set at the end of
the show, you export the transcript of all the comments
out and it becomes a super chat, a super chat dialogue that can
replay along with the published episodes so that you can see in
real time where the booths came in where the chat right comments
happened. Right, right, right. And I love that by the way that
that control is also controlled by the check box. So by default,
everything's checked, the check box is checked. And if that's
checked, then your comments will not be output in the final
transcript. If it's unchecked, and then they will go that
you're telling you're letting the chat room know I'm okay with
my comments being part of the published
Adam Curry: God transcript God Oh, yeah, that's a femoral. Got
it. Privacy by default
Dave Jones: is what this is. And then then you you can control it
by the checkbox. But, but I think this, this also like, sort
of like, step in and stop me if you want to jump in here. I'm
just I'm kind of Soliloquy homeless.
Adam Curry: And I'm just listening. I'm loving. I'm
seeing people coming in from noster. Because I yeah, I
announced it and I did I unclick the box for a moment found a bug
too. We'll talk about that later. Okay. You know, me
breaking stuff.
Dave Jones: That's what you're valuable.
Adam Curry: Oh, I'm valuable. Thank you.
Dave Jones: Values.
Adam Curry: I mean, useful wagon. Yeah, I mean, I
immediately like this, I immediately am drawn to it, not
just back to the centralization. This stream is centralized.
There are like 25 shows that run on no agenda stream.com and run
on the same IRC server, which is void zero server. It's been that
way for 14 years. And it is entirely centralized. We're just
using a different room. So I really dig the idea of of
spawning this out. And brother I have if we're done with this, I
can move on to the next thing I've been thinking about. Okay,
unless there's more you want to finish this up.
Dave Jones: There there I want to talk about Daniel J. Lewis,
his comments thing, but but I can probably fit it in anywhere.
So go ahead.
Adam Curry: Let's do that. Let's let's move from that. And I'll
come in, cuz I got stuff about music, but it also is related to
that. It's just been a lot going on. And what happened was, we
had a meet up, and I flew to Nashville.
Dave Jones: Yeah. How
Adam Curry: was that go by so I flew, right. And we took my
instructor and Tina she knows Tina had never been in a four
seater before. Now this is a very you know, you're I rented
this plane, I could not afford to buy it. This is like a $1.3
million plane has a parachute. It's like a you know, it's like
a luxury sports car in the air. And now Nashville, turns out
it's pretty far. Three and a half hours. And the whole point
for me was it was a I saved up all of my a lot of my instrument
instruction lessons and took this because I actually had, you
know, three and a half hours to really look at this The Garmin
1000 You know, just flying, you know, a lesson for an hour and a
half every couple of weeks, you don't really get into it. It's
like, like a Chinese menu on a phone. You know, it's like you
got, there's a lot of menus and sub menus and a lot of stuff
going on. So once I'd figured that out after an hour, you
know, it's pretty boring. By the way, I just have to tell you one
thing. So on departure Monday morning, we're at Gillespie
airport, which is five minutes from our house. Everything's
beautiful, right? Amy Lynn has brought the plane she's my my
instructor. It's all filled up. We're good to go. We get in Tina
has done her like okay, it's pretty small. It's roomy,
actually in the back. It's quite roomy, his leather seats, you
know, it's comfortable. And so there's one runway, and it's a
it's a pilot controlled airfield, so there's no tower
and you basically talk to each other. And the wind was
variable. So was five knots one this direction five knots, that
direction moved around. So we decided we're going to take off
07. So we're at the end of the runway, not on the runway, but
you know, you're holding short of the runway, and we're waiting
for this one lady who's coming in from Austin, I think to land
and she decided to land the opposite direction, which is
okay, but when then you have wind at your back. And you know,
it can be a little tricky. You want to land and take off into
the wind. We're watching her because we're gonna we're gonna
line up and take off once she's off the runway. We're watching
her land, she bounces bounces up 30 feet and crash lands right in
front of us. Like, oh, no GearSlutz than it knows that it
didn't go all the way over noses over the prop hits the ground,
lot of dust. And Tina goes. I didn't need to see that.
Dave Jones: Okay, yeah, that's bad to say, this is not a good
thing. I mean, kudos that she did not bail out.
Adam Curry: Oh, man. She is the bravest passenger I've ever seen
in my life. She actually said, No, it's in God's hands. Let's
go. But we had to wait for an hour. And it was a whole bunch
of stuff going on. But I've never seen a crash land in my
life. Neither of my instructors like one of those things. And
when we're on our way for this long trip, and Tina sees as
like, holy crap, can't believe that. Anyway,
Dave Jones: man is like, what she's what she inside, like
really kind of freaking out who she was she nervous?
Adam Curry: She said this. And that doesn't make me happy, I
think is what she said. She said, No, I'm good. I'm good.
What are the chances of something happened again?
Anyway, so the night before, we had just been to see Mercy Me in
San Antonio. And I'd never really quite been to a show like
that. And there was a lot going on with screens. And the
audience was fantastic. These guys are all no agenda fans of
them. It was a whole love fest. But it's been a while since I've
been to a concert with 3000 people. So as always impresses
me, you know, the live concert. And then in Nashville, we're in
Nashville. I'm talking to Jeff Smith. So I came back and we had
headwind on the way back, so it was even a longer trip. So my
head is just filled with music ideas. Now, back to the
comments. Back Back to the comments. Daniel Jays comments,
because what's happened here is my eyes glazed over the same on
the GitHub, and it took me a long time to kind of parse
through it and figure out maybe it's a good starting point. I
forget all the reasoning, because I think that's actually
the biggest distraction. The the reason why nothing has been
implemented, why activity pub isn't all the way there or
hasn't been done all the way yet. I think it has nothing to
do with technology. The way I see it is, of course, there the
podcasts or creates, in essence, a rude comment and uses some non
existent API server that adds these comments to pretty much a
single file. So an app then only has to do two things. It has to
suck in that file to display the comments, then it has to provide
a web hook from the app to the API server, which does not exist
yet the same as this, you know, same as the this chat server
doesn't exist yet. Yeah, we have one. But the podcaster would
have to have that or have access to that. And that's what you
post, it adds to the file and then the file is parsed. It
seems like a pretty simple idea. Is that is that kind of the way
and is that a correct view of it?
Dave Jones: Yes, I think so. It's Yes, it's not it's an API
that is just in the IDF are in the build phase at this at this
point. But it's supposed to be a simple. The podcast app just
sends a single API request to post the comment. It gets stored
in an in a JSON file after it allows for moderation by the
podcaster. And then it's immediately available that JSON
file is immediately available to be sending. Yes.
Adam Curry: And and luckily There was a flag in there that
you can go back to moderate it later and not have to moderate
every single post. I would not want to do that. That sounds
sounds pretty simple. I don't know exactly how much different
it is from what you know. Or if it's something we need to stop
and do that instead of the activity pub, which seems to be
so close yet so far away. So what are your thoughts pod sage?
Dave Jones: Well, I mean, what are your thoughts first?
Adam Curry: My Well, I have different thoughts. Because what
I'm really, and I put this on the social and no one responded
to it, which means I'm probably right on the mark. It appears to
me that the biggest problem with this particular feature is that
is being talked about as if it's a podcast, podcast or feature.
And I, I have to kind of disagree. It is a podcast app
feature. And, and and, and I remember from over two years
ago, when when we started cross app comments, this is how long
it's been. It's it's not worked. And I think I remember Martin
pod friend Martin saying, Well, I don't want my app, which is
called pod friend. i It's unfriendly if you can't comment
on every single podcast, and he feels and I completely
understand. And I think I agree with him, that comments are part
of his platform, not necessarily the podcasters platform, because
it's his app. And with that come comes all kinds of issues like,
well, what if am I going to get emails now saying, I don't like
what this guy said, kick him off, this is a bad word, who is
who is the moderation part is going to be interesting, because
ultimately, it is displayed on his app. And I believe that is
the reason why we have not seen it implemented. Because
everyone's a one man band. Everyone's strapped for time.
This may be just too much for a, an app developer to take on. And
also, I also heard what Marco said, and you know, like him or
not, he said, I don't want people telling me what to do.
And it's a little bit of telling people what to do in this
conversation. And I'm, I'm pulling back, because I don't
think it's a technical implementation problem. I think
it's the I know some of the personalities here. And I think
that people like well, you know, I'm not so yes, I did look at
the GitHub while flying. Okay, I'll answer your question.
Dave Jones: You also texted me, scared me to death pictures.
Adam Curry: From 9006, it actually works. I was quite
amazed how T Mobile baby works at 9000 feet. So I think we're
having the wrong discussion.
Dave Jones: There, yeah. Maybe not the wrong discussion, maybe
just two different discussions. And in one of them, maybe not
even being spoken. But there's the text. There's the technical
aspect of of the of the thing. And then there's the then
there's the the sort of political ethical stuff on top.
And this is very like, like I said, this is one of those weeks
where it's like, everything is loosely connected to each other.
And yes, in a weird way. Because there's another aspect of this
that I don't want to muddy the water with, but I want to talk
about it.
Adam Curry: In the dirt.
Dave Jones: It's also all up in there. That so the technical on
the technical side of things, I had no problem with what Daniels
do. And I think I think it's fine. I mean, what we want for
an app is simplicity. Yeah, we see that we see the struggles of
decentralization that are happening with the noster apps.
They're killing people's battery life, because they're they're
keeping WebSockets open to 12 different servers at the same
time. There's that sort of decentralization is difficult.
And I get and I get that. So from that standpoint, anything
that can be done to simplify and this is this is what I was
talking about, with Where do you decentralize? We're in the
stack. And I think we need to sort of come come to terms with
where this is supposed to be. Because if you push the
decentralization, all the way down to the mobile app, that is
a big burden for that for that app to carry. Not only in terms
of have to have resources, and complexity, but also in terms of
App Store review. Oh, yes, absolutely. Yeah, there's a lot
of challenges there. So if you if we can move this thing up the
stack a bit to where we envision this okay, envision envision
that Daniel J. Lewis is API concept is full, it is
functional. And transistor implements it. Transistor now
offers this API solution for its podcasters. And they podcasters
then can can allow comments to happen on their own on their
shows. And they they can have some sort of moderation if they
want or whatever. And then the podcast app, all it has to do is
Adam Curry: just add a web hook and parse that JSON file
Dave Jones: was not even it wasn't even web hook like the
app can, I mean, jumping from the posting site? So from so the
listener can just post a comment, it goes to a REST API,
boom, done. Easy, simple.
Adam Curry: That's what I'm that's what I mean by web hook,
you press a button and it goes on that API server. Right.
Dave Jones: Exactly. And so this thing is you, you do need some
sort of, there's, there's, there are challenges with this. Yeah.
And they can
Adam Curry: have some kind of identity. You need an identity,
what you've just built. You just built the entire identity piece
to that the way I see it.
Dave Jones: Well Nasir built it we industrious guy. Yeah, yeah,
the identity can be it. But their spam control. There's all
the things that
Adam Curry: there's a lot of bull crap to go to go down. Oh,
yeah. Absolutely.
Dave Jones: Yep. And just because you have a throwaway
identity doesn't mean that you're going to solve any of
those problems. Right. So So I like I think the simplicity of
it is, is is perfect. And
Adam Curry: it holds me, let me stop you. And the point. And I
think the point you're making suddenly, is that all of those
problems have already been addressed on activity pub slash
mastered on a lot of those problems.
Dave Jones: I guess I am saying that, but I'm not saying it on
purpose. Okay.
Adam Curry: I know I know. But but the fact is, spam issues
have ordered em blocking and moderation is a very rich
moderation interface. You can block and you know, all kinds of
things activity pub through Mastodon has all of that.
Dave Jones: It also has. Yeah, yeah, James is right. Those
problems have been addressed at baster games, too, with a
different a different sort of bar to jump over, which is the
pay pay part. Yes. The
Adam Curry: pay part, which I also agree with, which is, which
is probably why Fountain has not had, as far as I know, is zero
problems with boosted grants, because people just don't know
pay to spam that much. It's just not a very good business model.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So I think what the so you have these
different bar these different sorts of bars you can set to pay
for people to jump over to to help the spam issue. One of
those bar in the bar and the fountain comment system is
money. The bar and the mastodon system is things like a private
registration. Moderate you have moderators,
Adam Curry: you can get kicked off. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All that.
Yeah. Amen. Pure Vita. If you're
Dave Jones: on the bar that was implemented on the noster side,
or is being implemented. It's getting better is the stir fry.
Adam Curry: It is getting better. And there's something
that I've noticed, there is a community aspect. And I don't
know how to implement I'm sure it's some nip somewhere that
people can block a post and then it'll show up in your timeline,
but it says, you know, blocked by these 3000 people and then
basically you don't look at it. Okay, so there's there's fun
stuff like that being developed. It's like, create like a
crowdsource crowdsourcing time. Yeah, of course, of course. And
there's also the thread from hell, which I've been put on,
which never goes away, and then you know, you have to deal with
that. Right, right.
Dave Jones: So then I think I think in Daniels mind what he's
what he's envisioning is the bar. The the bar for keeping
that stuff at bay within his idea is the moderation part that
things won't show up until it's approved by the podcaster. Now,
that's, that's a very, that's gonna have to take it's gonna
take a lot of work. Well, it
Adam Curry: also it won't work that way. Because people want
instant gratification if you post a comment, and it doesn't
show up because it has to be moderated. People won't use it.
If and then you get into exactly what you're saying. Then you
have to get into well who's approved to post so you get into
all that stuff and you ultimately get into some kind of
sort of registration. These are these are problems that are so
this is why discus never really worked, you know, turn into a
spam thing, then they actually became a spam company
themselves. It's comments are very, very, very hard they are.
And the more I look at what you've built here, the more I
like that we could actually have boosted Graham's flip flow
through here. And, you know, this may be a version of
something that works even just for comments, not just for chat,
you know, ephemeral or not?
Dave Jones: Well, so then that's, that's worth pointing
out here. This, this this chat, the MK Ultra has the same
problem. It can it can it's also subject to spam, you know, spam
bombing. Yeah. And the the bar for entry there is ephemerality
so that it, it, it only lasts for a certain period of time.
Yes. That's, it's still not immune from it. So that's got to
be it's got to be dealt with here. So I guess I'm not I'm
not. So I'm not trying to diss, talk these things down and just
say, I'm just trying to be, let's be honest about all these
difficulties. Yes. And then the bit that's, that's on the
posting side on the console. So then you have this C, which
we've done here is moved this up the stack to the word so the
center it's centralized. At the at transistor now, in this
hypothetical future world, transistor is running the
service. It's, it's, it's, it's a single call to them for this
for posting to one of their podcasters the comments. Then,
at that point, you have you have a de json file of full of all
these comments that you can then distribute. So so what I'm what
I'm envisioning, is this youth. You're not You're not, it
doesn't have to just because it's centralized. Oh, you
Adam Curry: just blew my mind. Did uh, yeah, keep going? I like
it. Yeah. Blew my mind.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So you're, you're, you've moved the
decentralization up one step to where now, transistor or some
third party can come in, read those comments and distribute
them to other systems? Yes. Activity pub noster. You know,
all the different commenting systems, yes. out there. Like,
and that that is in they can also go back that way. If the if
if you wanted to continue to expand the system and say, Okay,
well, we're going to put just just like MK Archer, we're going
to, we're going to send things out. And then we're also going
to pull things back in. If, you know, if we choose as you choose
to plug these two these these things in. I just think that I
think they just it's going to be just very, very difficult to
decentralize things all the way down to the app level. Oh, and
Adam Curry: I agree, and I'm not sure who's pushing this
decentralization talk.
Dave Jones: Well, I don't think there's anybody pushing it. It's
just that I think that's what we as technical people in private
and privacy minded people, and we don't like, you know, nobody
likes to be censored. I think we want the decentral just just
like the nostril people are just infatuated with saying that this
is censorship resistant, and it's decentralized.
Adam Curry: I think it's, you know, that's a marketing bit.
That's, that's mainly that who never says that developers. I've
never seen a developer say that. That's the people who are in
there and are infatuated and happy and jacked and pura vida.
Dave Jones: It's a trick. It's an attractive thing to want.
Yeah. It, it's just, it's just very, very hard. And it doesn't
really fit with what podcasting that like the infrastructure
that podcasting exists in right now. Anyway. I mean, like, I
mean, same thing, same thing with POD ping, we've done the
same thing. Pod ping is decentralized across across a
public blockchain. But 99% of the people that's in pod pings
do it through pod ping dot Club, which is a single point exactly.
It's like, where you you need a reliable single point in a lot
of in a lot of cases, you need a reliable single communications
point to receive this this item, and then send it out right to
various so that it becomes decentralized. It's not it's not
necessarily born decentralization,
Adam Curry: this kind of fits with everything we've been
doing. It's the same thing as a wallet. You know, and certainly
in the beginning, there was a lot of pushback on us in
particular, well, you guys are just centralizing the Lightning
Network here. And so there was a big push all get your own node,
get your own umbra, which turns out to be quite complicated for
most mere mortals. Sorry, Carmen. And, and then of course,
you know, along comes and out it like get Alby and there's all
there's more. And you know it no one complains. While they're
Satoshi. You know, there's, we have all these centralized
solutions for the Lightning Network and no one's
complaining. So there's all this idealism, but then it always
comes back to reality. And now I operate on my own wallet to my
own nodes, with, you know, with the predictable experience, from
time to time, I miss a huge boost. Why, because something
went wrong and went offline or something happened. This is just
what it is. So there's going to be the same for if this is the
way we implement cross app comments. It isn't in fact, the
same for your transcripts, it is the same for your chapters, you
can host it somewhere else host it yourself. The option, I think
is what makes it interesting. And that, to me is ultimately
the when I think censorship, I don't think China, I think
transistor didn't like me, or someone called transistor and
said, Hi, where the IRS we're going to, we're going to audit
you in less you kick curry off your system. So I will be able
to take my little comments or my transcripts and put them on a
different server, and everything would continue as normal. That
to me is censorship resistant.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. You're You're that's, that's go. And
that's arriving at the gas station, finding out that
they're closed and then driving down the street to a different
gas station.
Adam Curry: Now. Can I move to music?
Dave Jones: You will? Let me
Adam Curry: I'm waiting for you to wrap this up.
Dave Jones: Yes, yes, you are allowed to move to music?
Adam Curry: Well, because we can't we can't thank you point
of personal privilege. Granted, we can't. We can't do anything
more here than I mean. So we are at an interesting crossroads. We
have an implementation of cross app comments, which I think is
pretty much good to go. I think there's some core issues still,
maybe there's some issues. But really, app developers are not
surfacing this. And they're not enabling the the posting part.
Am I correct? That's how close we are.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's very close. And just to maybe to
maybe throw one more thing in is it and you just kind of jogged
my memory on is I want I want to reach sort of re emphasize the
fact that this is not the point where the point where the app
communicates the comment, or, or gets the car, like I don't want
to change the way we do things. I like our comments, existing
activity pub. And so but we could still benefit from this
JSON version of comments, which is create a tool that that wraps
everything up and creates in sucks at all and creates a JSON
file that makes it easy for the app that way, the app doesn't
have to communicate with potentially 27 different
activity post servers. Like that's what I mean, again, about
like, decentralizing upstream, that you're making it easier on
the apps, but you still get the decentralization that makes us
all warm and fuzzy.
Adam Curry: That's good. For me, that's called interrup.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we like we can still do it the way we want to.
And, and, but then boil it all down for the apps to be easy.
Adam Curry: I love that. And I want this chat thing
immediately.
Dave Jones: To watch as I want
Adam Curry: it immediately, I want I want to have this chat
server I want I want to use this is fun.
Dave Jones: Okay, it's as close to done.
Adam Curry: But once once we get the IRC part, that bridge I
think has to be made.
Dave Jones: Well, the good thing about the about boost bot and
everything is they can just, you know, speak noster as well, if
they want to go straight in and they'll they'll be able to talk
to the relay. Interesting.
Adam Curry: Let's seem that seems that sounds like a
something for the IRC boys to put together.
Dave Jones: Now, but it will definitely suck in IRC. That's
That's next on the list. I love that.
Adam Curry: Well, Daniel Jays idea about the whole discussion
around you know, having these individual files which we have,
we have an individual transcript file, we have individual
chapters file. And so I was racking my brain, you know, also
looking at the remote item tag, which is, it's really confusing,
because I think we're all talking about something no one
no one's ever going to just put an episode of someone else's
show into your feed. I'm not going to do it. I don't know why
anyone else would ever do it. But it's built for playlists for
music. That part I understand. Is that right? Am I correct?
That I think everyone agrees that everyone's just talking
about it. But are you really going to put someone else's
episode in your feed? Really?
Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't think that I think it can do That's
the thing it can do. But it's its primary intent is for is for
other means mediums, right? Because playlists become more
important with other mediums.
Adam Curry: Yes, exactly. So playlisting. Fantastic. So I was
thinking now again, so I'm out, you know, I've just seen a
concert, I'm digging these guys. I'm seeing all these different.
These are guys who still sell their CDs for $5 at the venue,
you know? Because, you know, what money are you making off
of? Off of music sales? Nothing. So that's, you know, but of
course, merch, a lot of merch stuff. It's hard to see you
commenting in the chat while I'm talking to you. It's like that,
like, I immediately feel like you're not listening to me.
Dave Jones: heard everything you said.
Adam Curry: I know. I'm just saying it's weird.
Dave Jones: This is what happens when you you know, look on your
wife's talking to you. You're not really listening. And she's
like, are you listening?
Adam Curry: That's exactly how I felt just there for a moment. I
felt like your wife is like, You're not listening to me, Dave
Jones. But
Dave Jones: then I'm like, you but what you do is you just
repeat the last word that she said. You said, you said play
live. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So I'm also out in Nashville. I'm talking to Jeff
Smith. And I'm talking to him about you know, about value for
value and how it's working. And you know, what wave Lake is
doing. And you know, basically how we've set up the whole 2.0
standard with the medium tag equals music so that we can do
music was split. And believe me, musicians get it. Musicians go
Oh, hold on a second. When I say we get rid of ASCAP BMI, the
ears perk up, you know, and I and I know the best joke now
it's like, yeah, we can even give the drummer a split. And
everyone finds that joke. Hilarious. Everyone in the band
thinks that's funny, except for the drummer isn't for the
drummer. And then it hit me. We need possibly so what I so why
is the music business so broken? The music business is broken for
a number of reasons. But I would say the number one is radio
sucks, radio was corporate radio was controlled. The radio is
tight playlist is very hard to get your record played. And
there is no way that you can really do a music based show
legally on a podcast, you just can't do it. Because unless you
have unless the artist has the rights, and I said okay, you can
you can play my stuff on your show. It's okay. It's
downloadable. And that's a lot of okay, there's a lot of
giveaways that artists you know, when you're in the ASCAP, BMI,
sound exchange, Harry Fox publishing world. No, it
doesn't, that's never gonna happen. Yeah, you can do it. But
eventually, you're gonna get railed for it. So we need a way
that incentivizes everybody that's always been my model. So
I want to do a show. Now, we talked about the wave Lake, top
10, and all that. But let's just say I want to do a show. And I
want to play music, they want to interview some people. But when
I play music, I want the value block for that music to be
activated. And I want all streaming, SATs and all booster
grams to go to that value block. I would like to have a piece for
myself, because it's still my show. But then when that song is
over, then it comes back. Now this would work for interviews,
it would work for a whole bunch of different things, as you can
imagine, even for you could even use it as a voting mechanism.
Oh, this person is speaking. And now everything is going through
this one, two, this one booster gram interface for this show. is
now going to that entity. You with me? Yeah, that's the dream.
The way to do it, I think is very similar. have instead is
have an option on the value tag for to be remote. And that would
be Believe it or not here, I'm going to say it would might be a
JSON file that has that has my my standard splits for for the
for that episode. But then has time codes just like chapters.
And then for this, God this guid this. And then the app looks at
that guid and pulls it and pulls in the value block for that
entity which I hope would then be an album a song or an artist
etc. And does that make sense?
Dave Jones: Okay, so you're talking about a show, you've
done a show and you've published it. Now when the app is is
reading through the show structure,
Adam Curry: it's picking up so it's these remote value block.
I'm just I'm not a developer clearly, I'm just shooting from
the hip. So in the value block of six oh remote, okay. They say
goes looked at this remote and it says, Use this valid these
splits this, these values throughout the show except for
this time code from here to here, use this shows value
block. And in my mind is just a referral code so that you're not
pulling in the actual value block, but that maybe it's the
GUID for for that for that particular song or that
particular album. And I'm just using good loosely here. Or you
could of course, use a URL, but we know how shitty that is long
term. So if somehow is the GUID, then then the then the band
whose music I played, they can change their fuck you think
activity Shut up, I'm talking about
Dave Jones: want to sing the crap out of me?
Adam Curry: I would like you know, so they have complete
control over their value block and change that at any time. But
I'll still refer to them from my remote value block. Does that
make sense?
Dave Jones: Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. I think like this
is just chapters, right? If we put the value Yes, block into
the chapter markers that would solve this,
Adam Curry: that actually that, of course came up in my mind as
well, we already have the tools, all we need to do is just add
the referral code for another value block. I just didn't, what
I didn't want to do as I didn't want to start off a let's put
pod roll and all these things in one go. I didn't want to start
that off. So if it belongs in chapters, I'm fine with that. I
just want to get going, I just want to do a show because I got
Jeff Smith saying, I know a lot of musicians who have bought
back all their music, they own the publishing, they owned
everything. And they and there's an high level of interest to do
this.
Dave Jones: Well, it's it's a good timing to do this. Because
I've got as ethnic, though, would for sure work. I mean, now
you know, we're gonna have to make it where it needs to be a
reference, it can't really be hard coded because you're gonna
have exact Yeah, you you because you need to be able to call out
to that other feed and see what its current value block is
rather than, like, sucking it in hard coded into recurrent
chapters.
Adam Curry: Right. So maybe this is even a smarter way to do it.
Maybe, since we already have chapter files, maybe there's
some tag in there, or maybe just when it reads the chapter files
if it comes across a value, value block reference guid for
that chapter, which has a start and an end. Maybe just overrides
whatever, whatever it's using from the feed and uses that and
then come and pops back after it's done and then goes back to
the feed.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yes, yes. For sure. Something like that. Yeah,
we'll
Adam Curry: call it chapter value split or something chapter
value block or something like that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, we've talked about doing this, there
may even be already be a proposal for this in there. I
haven't looked in a while. But it's good timing to do it.
Because we're out. This fits with. Again, everything's
fitting together this way this fits with what we need anyway,
which is, which is reply addresses in the value block
addresses. Yeah,
Adam Curry: you go, there you go feel the need
Dave Jones: need to have a way to reply back to reply back in
boost some boot, you know, you need to know where if it's
course by choice. If they want to include this in the to v,
then the person receiving the boost can then reply back to
that person with and with a boost. So, I mean, if we're
already in there making these changes anyway. I mean, what one
I just, you know, come up with, with having just proposed both
at the same time. No, I think it's it makes perfect, perfect
sense. I would I wouldn't I wouldn't do it.
Adam Curry: I would I would love to have this. And I think that
possibly the app devs I think anyone everyone who has V four v
and the apps probably have chapters as well, I think it
will, I would love doing this because we will we will spawn we
will I guarantee it will spawn a whole generation of people
playing not so I'm so sick for 20 years now. It's all been the
only way you can do is playlist, set up your playlist put it on
your shoutcast server I'm so sick of it. I want and there's a
lot of good music out there. And, and and the artists are
ready bands are ready performers are ready. They're ready to get
paid. They're just sitting there getting jerked around by
everybody. And if you can say get your Albie wallet just to
make it easy, you know, we can't rely on all only on apt get Alby
but you know what I'm saying? Get your Alby wallet because
this is what what Jeff Smith sees. He sees 5% from a lot of
different and shows certainly mine going to him. And he sees
that, you know, in a certain point you'd like to 3 million
sets you pay attention like well, that's kind of nice. Yeah,
for sure. You know, so I want artists to have that feeling I
want them to fire up, you know, contracts. I want them to see
that the SATs dripping in. I want them to get that that
feeling of oh, there's love someone's listening to my show.
Where's it coming from? Oh, it's coming from that podcast. Oh,
that's great. I mean, the one thing in in American country
radio and I would say Christian rock radio. There is a love
affair between artists and radio, watch any country show
you can stomach because I love country. But the show the award
shows are sickening to watch any country watch or you can't. And
then all the artists go and thank you country radio. I want
I want to take that away. I want to take all that away. And I
want it to be thank you this podcast. Thank you that podcast
because the artists can see it. There's accountability. And
there's actual money of value being shared from people who
like what they're hearing. And then they can go over and then
right away and start listening to all your stuff. And then and
then sending value for that the ecosystem is there. Let's get it
done.
Dave Jones: It belongs in the chapters
Adam Curry: for sure. Okay, good. Well, that's a great place
for it.
Dave Jones: I don't want it I don't want to have a discussion
about whether it's a metadata file or chapters. It's a
chapters file. Yeah, it's
Adam Curry: that we're not having that we're not having.
I'm going to talk to Steven B. And we're going to make it work
in curio caster and sovereign feeds first. But anyway, if
that's the that'll be our reference app.
Dave Jones: Well, I'll propose it into the namespace because
I've already got to be in there doing the proposal for reply
addresses anyway. And we'll have
Adam Curry: we'll have pod fans doing it right away too. Because
you know, so yeah, Sam was like, what? Oh, wait, wait. Oh, wait
there, ladies and gentlemen. Sakala blades on am Fallout
101010 from Sam sefie.
Dave Jones: Well, I mean, like, like a third of the tags that
Sam has in pod fans don't need or not even finalized. I don't
even know what you're doing Sam's like
Adam Curry: what he says, I really need to walk the dog
while the show is live. It's Friday night, the wife keeps
interrupting me. Just telling you just to pretend like you're
listening, Sam. She doesn't understand why I want to listen
live because it's cool. As for cross app comments, I'm looking
to use noster not activity pub. Sorry, don't worry, it looks
like we'll be able to do all I've implemented pod rolls and
playlists which really work well for podcasts and music. I don't
get the remote item tag. While we've worked through all of
that, Sam, we've already fixed it all for you. Don't worry.
Yeah, it's no SAM. SAM will implement the chapter splits.
I'm excited. And but it does have to be and can we do that
with the GUID Can you reference with a good edge of this pocket?
This this this artist or this album? Or this collection of
songs? Can you can you reference the actual item level? Value
block split? Yeah, with an abstraction what would that be?
What's that? Is that good? Good?
Dave Jones: Yes, good. Good.
Adam Curry: Item. Good. Is it?
Dave Jones: I mean, that's what the remote item thing. That's
what remote item is? It's a reference to a feed. Good. And
then a Episode Good. Oh, well,
Adam Curry: okay, then there's a reason for that thing to
perfect.
Dave Jones: You go that, you know, the chapters is the where
you what remote item can't do is give you time, like this section
of this, of this show has to be this than this other section has
to be that, like, if you're doing a single show that has to
be chopped up into into bits. It can't do that. But it can it can
reference that show.
Adam Curry: It can reference a show and an item within the
show. Yes. Okay. So the chapter value split, can reference a
remote item and use and say okay, the value block from this
remote item, correct? Yes. Good. Steven B isn't built yet.
Dave Jones: Like this. Yeah, so check. So the chapters. Thing is
the chapters. That's what it's for.
Adam Curry: I'm Jack. I'm Jack. I'm jacked and ready to go.
Let's do it.
Dave Jones: I want I want to switch gears for a second and
discuss made for kids. Yeah, sounds exciting. You said
Adam Curry: no, but I'm all yours. Well, I'm sorry honey. We
were talking about something I'll playlist I'm sorry. What?
Something about the kids
Dave Jones: The Kids Are the kids in trouble. Are they? Okay?
The so the kids they made for kids. There's been this okay,
the longest running well, how do I how do I lay this out? Okay,
all right, the longest running thread on the podcast names the
issue issue on the podcast namespace repo. Is this mother
effing censorship thread?
Adam Curry: Wow. Is it an F bomb? How about that? Yeah, I
did. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Is in it's like 1000 comments long. Like, in there is
absolutely no better sense of what to do at the end of this
thing than there was at the beginning. There may be a lot
more confusion on the last post than there was at the at the at
the first post. It's this content ratings. This is not
censorship. It's content ratings. Like, how do we label
these things? As this is safe for kids? This is not safe for
kids age, which should it be by age? Should it be by content?
Should it be by this? It's like it's it just goes round and
round and round? And everybody hates each other? And everybody
comes out with blackouts? Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah, that's what usually happens in those
conversations. It's why stay out of them.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Town records that bring in Tipper Gore we
need tipper That's right. Yep. So hear you, Tom. At some point
on Rossy popped popped in a couple of
Adam Curry: weeks, because he's a masochist. Yes, he popped in.
He did. Everybody.
Dave Jones: He popped in with a new tag that just has a single
purpose, which is podcast colon made for kids. And it would just
be true or false. And, as usual, with these types of things, I
was like, Well, I'm just gonna give this some time to bake. And
think about it. And the more I think about it, I think it's a
great idea. At first I didn't, I was just, I was calling in, I
think it's a really good idea. In here, here, let me try to do
my best to explain why. The, the idea of who the podcast is made
for and what is in it cannot coexist. That is that is now
obvious from the from the 1000 posts, long issue of content
ratings, you cannot combine a notion of who the podcast is
intended for, and what the content is into the same thing.
As usual tags, the tags that go into the namespace, they have to
be boiled down to their ver to their to their most basic
essence. It has to do it's just like a Unix command tool. It has
to do one thing and it has to do it well. And only one thing and
it is so easy. It is so tempting to bring in 234 or five other
things. And that's what is going on with the pod roll and all
this stuff in it is it's a don't like it. And I'm I'm not going
to participate in in the construction of tags that are
these multi layered beasts.
Unknown: Spoken.
Dave Jones: It's just it's destined for failure because
it's complex, conceptually complex, and technically
complex. The the simplicity of pod roll in the reason why that
everybody immediately liked it. Or many people immediately liked
it as enough to even begin implementing it is because it's
very simple. It's you is just a reference to another to another
to other shows. It's just there's no ambiguity there.
There's no complexity there. That's all it is. The made for
kids thing is very similar. It does one thing it says the
podcaster do they think that they they intend for this show
to be listened to by children? And we all know what we all know
what a child is. Okay, well, there's we that's universal. Now
I'm and I'm purposely not thinking about ages and things
like this. If you're an adult, there's a time where you see
Stop calling them a kid. Or you stop thinking of them as your as
your children as a child, and you begin to think of them just
as your children, as you know, adults or young adults or
whatever. We all know, in this context what a child is. So that
when I say is this made for children? Universally, everybody
knows roughly what that means. And so a podcaster, if they say,
Look, my podcast, this podcast I'm developing, it is made for
children I want it's the intended audience is children.
That's not ambiguous. It's a very easy thing to understand.
And it's purposefully separate entirely separate from the
content of what is in the show. I may say, My show is made for
kids. And in this show, there is things about sex education, or
what bubble herb, just name name 15 Different companies as a
content that I've just described two different things. My intent
is that is that my show be listened to by children. My in?
That's enough, that's enough on its own. The content question
that I don't know if we will ever get to that resolution, I
don't know if we'll ever come up with something that makes
everybody happy. I mean, we probably won't you
Adam Curry: made your point, I think the biggest point you make
here is the Unix tool example. And I appreciate that. And I
think that I'm fine with a made for children. And what I don't
know why this was proposed, or who was looking for it, I have
kids, I still call them kids. If I had little children and I saw
made for kids, I would not trust that to be listened to by my
kid, I would listen to it first, which is ultimately where the
responsibility lies. Because yeah, I wouldn't might want my
kid listening to drag time, story hour or whatever. You
know, there's a lot of content made for kids, and a lot of
content made for kids that I don't find appropriate for my
children. And so using this as an example of maybe a larger
issue, what I'm seeing here, in the discussions on the GitHub,
it is painfully obvious to me why there was 10 years of
inactivity in podcasting, because all the same agendas and
ideas and thoughts and people all come around. And they all
have these endless conversations. And ultimately,
we have 10 developers. If I'm in that may, that may be even more
than we have who actually implementing these things. So I
find there's so much energy being put into arguing over and
odious things. And here's how we should do it here. So I think a
lot of I think, I think i think i think i think i think i think
and when and when someone can say, here's something very
simple, it does this. I'm all for it. I don't care if it's
made for kids, I don't care if it's I don't care what it is, I
that's the analogy I'm going to hold on to I like that a lot.
Because I understand that more grep into something else, you
know, if as long as I can pipe these commands, like we're doing
now, literally, with remote item and chapter. That's the way we
need to look at it. And I'm I'm actually disappointed with how
much drivel is being posted on the GitHub, and back and forth.
And that, and then, and that, and that. And although I find it
humorous, when James comes in and says I'm disappointed, then
I'm like, Oh, my God, like, where are we with all this?
Yeah, now well, and so um, so I, once again, I pray and praise
for the developers, I praise you. Thank you. Thank you for
coming in. Thank you for coming in early. Thank you for getting
all the basics. And you are ultimately going to implement
what you want what you feel is right for your users, for the
people who are using your app. And I cannot thank you enough
for getting getting us everyone else. And I'm just as guilty of
it at times. But getting all of us out of this endless loop of
horseshit that just goes round and round and round. People want
to listen to a podcast. It's hard enough for me to get them
to understand that you can look at chapters. So it's a slow boil
people. It's a very, very slow boil. And the simpler we make
things and the simpler we the things are that we implement the
better.
Dave Jones: The the reason that made for children thing kind of
piqued my interest was because there is a use case there. You
know, it's hard. I've taught I've personally had a zoom call
with a person who's writing who was writing I don't know if
they're still doing it, but they were involved with a podcast app
for kids. And it was very challenging to figure all that
out. It's a very manual process. If you could take the if you
have to sort through 4 million podcasts and figure out the 500
that are made for kids, right, but
Adam Curry: that's about wanting, but you know what your
point is made? We can go because all the exceptions are obvious.
I'm a pedophile, I'm going to make a podcast called made for
kids. I mean, it's obvious, it's obvious, it will not work for
content. It's what's clear is it does one thing, it tells a
parent, this is for kids, this I made this for kids. You can
listen to this and see if it's appropriate for your kid. That's
it.
Dave Jones: Right. That's, that's it? Yes, that's it. And
so, just to finish, just to finish my thought, though, if
like, is at least a flag to say, you don't have to sort through 4
million podcasts to to find those that you will then whittle
down. You can start with, you know, a couple 1000. Yeah, I'm
at agreement. Yeah, like, it's just me. That's why I think it's
worth doing. Because, I mean, otherwise, who cares? You see,
I'm saying, I mean, like, there's there has to be some
reason for it. And I just want I just want to the light exactly,
like you said, if you a responsible parent is going to
listen to the content no matter what. First, so it doesn't
matter what the content ratings are, there's hope I never see
the word content ratings ever again.
Adam Curry: No, it's not a content rating. And I'm just
saying yes, to have everyone shut the fuck up over it. I'm
tired of it. Seriously, it's like fine habit for kids. It's
not going to change anything said whittled down, something
that parents have to look at look through, you cannot do? It
does nothing. It does absolutely nothing other than give parents
a feeling of oh, I can look at these things and see if it's
appropriate. That's all. And most good kids content will
never be open and free. It'll be behind a paywall anyway. So I'd
much rather focus on adult topics.
Dave Jones: One? Well, I mean, James James is saying that the
only reason this exists would exist was for you to well, I'm
well, I mean, maybe but there is there is you. There are US laws
that you know about, was it COPPA and all that kind of
stuff. I mean, there's there's a legal reason to do it. It goes
beyond YouTube. I understand. I understand your point. But I
mean, it is. I mean, it's worth it's worth doing. Well, that may
be what Tom's for asking for it. But that's not it doesn't mean
that it's pointless, or it's only for YouTube.
Adam Curry: All right. All right. Now, I'm now leaving the
chat because this chat is now used exactly what happens with
chats and comments and get hubs, it turns me into an irritated
man.
Dave Jones: You've dropped the F bomb twice. You are here. I'm
very
Adam Curry: irritated by all this talk.
Dave Jones: I want to build you up at once.
Adam Curry: I want more building. I want to work with
app developers. I want Martin to Martin Where's pod friend to
man, I want to have my account on pod fans. I can't retrieve my
account. I want to get going I have stuff to do. I want to I
want to make cool shows. I want to play music. I'm the academia
is killing me. It's killing me. It's killing me.
Dave Jones: I don't want you to die. I mean, let's like, risky,
this or something?
Adam Curry: No, no, no. But I mean, we just talked for 15
minutes about made for kids. And and I and I don't I don't care.
I mean, I think it's I don't I care, I care that you want it
and that you think it's a good thing to do. And I think okay,
great. I don't make content for kids. And if I had kids, I
wouldn't trust them and made for kids thing anyway. And it's just
I think there's this is the same problem that was going on for 10
years without developers. And now we're just now just bullying
developers into these long drawn out conversations about what
they should do and what what what is important for them to
do.
Dave Jones: Look, everybody gets pissed at me when I close an
issue on the on the on the namespace. I'm gonna close this
issue and I just want everybody to understand why when I do it,
don't Why didn't you just say that? Because I don't want to
get nasty emails. I'm tired of it. Yeah,
Adam Curry: that just is just how it goes. But, but now I see.
i It's, it's frustrating at times. He says all this back and
forth. You know, hey, pod roll, great idea. Boom, put it in,
someone implements it great. I probably I'll probably use it.
You know, this, this is where we're going wrong. And a lot of
people are guilty of this round and round and round. And he I
think and I think and I think and I think you know, it's just
like let's just get something going let's get something done.
The lid tag was the best thing we ever did very complicated and
boom, it's just working. And you know, what, if if crosstab
comments if, if the app devs don't don't feel like it is too
complicated. I'm fine with that too. And not going to get To me,
yes, nothing is not the end of the world. You know, I'm okay
with that I do a podcast, I'd love to, I'd love to do more
podcasting, or podcaster no one's asked me what I want. But
I'm gonna tell you, I want to do music and I want to artists to
be compensated. And I think we can kickstart a huge revolution
by bringing music radio to podcasting the way it's never
been done before. Because unlike a radio in the United States, at
least, when your record is played on the radio, you don't
get paid for it. No one gets paid for it. And I want that I
want everyone including the drummer to get paid when I play
it on my podcast. That's what I want. I think people can get
behind that.
Dave Jones: Which is always surprising to me that
Adam Curry: and I always point out, I bring the SATs to your
door developers, I bring the Satoshis everyone could get up
and do a podcast I get up do a podcast and bring you SATs.
Dave Jones: So how do we how do we make it? How do we make this
happen? Why do we need we made for kids? No, no, no, no, no,
I'm done with that. I'm about to go close that.
Adam Curry: Close it now. Close it live on the air. I love you.
We think so like except, except you're so kind when you say it.
I don't know. How do you do it? There's something about you.
Dave Jones: This? No, I mean, like, the chapters, like I mean,
like we just need Okay, so we need we need the we need to get
remote with the mirlo value. We need the value block and the
chapters. And we need we need reply back, which would be
pretty spiffy.
Adam Curry: Do we need that? Or are you just let's do it while
we're doing this anyway. Yeah, let's do it while we're doing it
anyway. GLV isn't doesn't mean we don't need anything any reply
back for doing this at this point. But your your Well, hold
on. I liked this actually. So then the artist can see who sent
the booster gram and can reply back.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so here's what here's what I want. I wrote
these things down. This is what I want in the in the TLV. I want
this is my wish list. I want to I want to return a dress, which
this is it's got to be a J It's gotta be a JSON blog. So it's
got to be here because it's got to have all the stuff, it's got
to have the node address, it's got to have the custom custom
key custom value, it's got to have that stuff in order to
support things properly. We got I want that I want an identity
key, like a nostre key that can go into the TLV like a public
key so that you can again by choice. I like that, because we
were talking the other day about potentially like Alex had a good
idea about putting a nostril identity into XMPP and other but
basically layering these nostra identities onto other protocols,
so that they're so that they're portable. So if if we, if we can
do that, we could take it we could have a key pair option in
the TLV and optional entry where if you wanted to attach an
identity to it, you could and I also want you to JSON payment
tokens, Alex's proposal for proof of payment that I want I
want those three things in the to V and I'm going to bet now
that Alwyn from contracts now that he has put he's brought
blipped in over into the namespace. We can more it'll be
much easier to control the TLV on on our own repo instance we
you know, rather than having to wait for merging right from
Adam Curry: from can we can do whatever we want, right? We can
just put it we want okay. All right. So that's what you want.
We know what I want. That meeting adjourned. Great meeting
everybody. Thanks for being
Dave Jones: with us. This qualifies minutes.
Adam Curry: The first thing I have to do is I have to get a
Steven b a motherboard. And she said he said no development
happens. I get my motherboard. Oh man.
Dave Jones: Steven, tell me tell me what you want.
Adam Curry: We'll get your motherboard man. We'll buy you a
motherboard.
Dave Jones: I'll buy you a laptop.
Adam Curry: Laptop. I'm in Dave we're pitching together.
Dave Jones: I mean if it as long as it doesn't have to be
anything super brand new I mean get a laptop for you know 50
bucks
Adam Curry: Wow, you're man, you're just the man aren't you
today give away 50 podcasting 2.0 Giveaway $50 laptops,
Dave Jones: like like a like a Lenovo like a five year old
Lenovo T 15 which is still a great machine. You can find
those on eBay for like painty 75 bucks my go
Adam Curry: to is the surface Go version three with running mint
Dave Jones: that's why I'm saying these I mean these older
lads well super run great
Adam Curry: Dred Scott as he has a he said, I wonder if we could
use chapter values for NA image art when using art from the Art
Generator? I'm not quite I think I know what I'm what he's saying
but just so you know, whenever we use an artist that will use
album art from the Art Generator for no agenda if that artist has
a get Alby address or any lightning address in their, in
their profile I use it give him 5%. And you know, you notice
that the artists don't talk about that much. Because they
know is like, Wow, if I get in the blog, I mean, the no agenda
blog, get some action. Get some action, lots of action. Lots of
action happening there. It doesn't even go to no agenda. It
goes to everybody else, which is why I love it so much. I'm
excited about this. And I really have already been thinking about
a name. You know, there's tons of content, there's tons of
music, there's tons of artists. And you know, I'm very excited.
I'm so excited about leading the way and let's let's have 1000
music shows. This is what we're missing. Do you have your at the
artists are at the mercy of the algo
Dave Jones: boost? So are you waiting to start this show until
you get these chapter values?
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's that's all I need. The minute I have
that I'm off to the races. The minute I have that and the end
as I said, there's a lot of artists who bought back their
royal their their rights, they have the rights and they're
happy to they're happy to do the experiment. I'm not sure what
difference does it make not making money off it any other
way? So yes, I'm waiting for that and the minute that's
there, then then we're good to go.
Dave Jones: Shred it in. So I'm going to a comic cons route
after the show. What up and hunts have in Huntsville, you
actually go into a Comic Con. Yeah, it's up in Huntsville,
Alabama. I'm like a huge, make no apologies. I'm a huge Star
Trek nerd. And I want to go get my picture made with William
Shatner.
Adam Curry: Oh, he's gonna be there. Yeah,
Dave Jones: it's like 1000 years old. Wow, I
Adam Curry: didn't Yeah, that's interesting. Dave for all all
the years I've known you I did not know any of this.
Dave Jones: You didn't know as a Star Trek nerd. No. It's I keep
it to myself, but you know, it's no secret
Unknown: you certainly have your sensory definitely a space
vessel of some type. Origin unknown could hardly be an
Earthship there have been no flights into
Adam Curry: this sector for years now named the episode
Dave Jones: that no there's there's no way there's no
Unknown: Chinese this week launched something called a
quantum communication satellite
Adam Curry: something different I'm just going through my all my
clips. He lives for Star Trek stuff. I've all kinds of stuff
Dave Jones: we can dive into but I had to write it down run race
right what down the chapter level value blog so well. Okay.
Adam Curry: Yeah.
Dave Jones: What is there a bed of space music going on here?
Adam Curry: This is Star Trek. This is the Cincinnati pops our
orchestra. This playing on battle theme.
Dave Jones: That is the Klingons battle. Yes.
Adam Curry: As you recognize it immediately. Battle Royale Yes.
Put your glasses up on your nose Hello nerd
Dave Jones: a you call nerd now but in a couple of hours. I'll
have a picture with William Shatner. And you
Adam Curry: can I just say some I love you Dave Jones all
aspects of you all facets. There's nothing wrong with you
my brother. So we thank you for people here so so we can just
take a breath. We shall and boy do we have some people to thank
we got some nice booster grams 55,555 What's the five five by
five? I guess five by five boost? Oh, nice from HR and he
says for all the drummers out there. Yeah. Drummer gets paid
Yes. drummers. Oh,
Dave Jones: by the way that I've got I've got to throw this in
here. So there's a guy here in town that teaches guitar lessons
and drum lessons and he's just a great great dude. He runs a a
nonprofit thing for inner city case was right down the street
from us to teach kids how to play music, and lots of great
volunteer work and everything. But he's just a cool dude. And
so he he played and toured with bands for many years. And so I'm
Oh, he invited us over me and Melissa overdose house to eat
dinner and wherever they're eating, and he said, because we
donate to their to their thing and he was like, he's like,
saying something about it about country music. I said, Well,
I've got I've got to admit to you that my, my secret shame is
that I'm a huge Janata Twain fan. And he was like, he was
like, Dude, we had he said, we're doing a concert in October
where we're doing nothing but should not wine covers. And he
was like, he was like, you play drums? writessay Yeah, he's
like, our drummer is super flaky and in in tends to bail out
you're gonna bail us out. Can you please play drums for our
hotline concert? So there's a chance that we'll be playing
twinset
Adam Curry: dude and October you what you need is you need that
Tommy Lee cage flips over you need to wear the little Speedo.
Dave Jones: spins around goes upside down. Yeah, one
Adam Curry: little Speedo underwear. Yeah, man. You could
be telling me you got a gift tattoo. You have no tattoos?
Dave Jones: No, no, no, don't do that.
Adam Curry: We should get a tap together. Like the heart. Yeah.
We got 77,777 from Mike Newman. He says a striper boost for
mercy. He says love Bart and the boys. I love him too. Man. Those
are those are really nice. Guy's super nice guys. Great show two.
Good music. Curtis Peterson 50,000 SATs we eat this week
Dave. Thanks for Thanks for the great discussion and all your
work as a consumer of pods. Is there a way to aid podcasters in
keeping channels open and ensure inbound capacity? Well,
Dave Jones: we do that's one of our jobs.
Adam Curry: That's what we do. I mean, you know, we're still
suffering from from the Zappa Palooza where people I got a
message the other day, you you, you first close my eyes and my
channel. No, we didn't force closing on purpose. In fact,
I've never force closed everything, anything on purpose.
That's just the nature of what happens sometimes. So hit us up
where happened to we're happy to if it closes, let us know. We'll
open it again. That's what we do. Have had 1111 Sir Spencer
33,333 It says music splits is a life changer. I love the idea of
some dynamic value tag that listens to what's now playing
for a live stream that plays music, which even be made with
the split kit is a piece of the puzzle just looks just something
that looks at a dynamic value block that is changing
throughout a live item. I love the chapter level value block
idea. Well I think we've kind of figured out we're gonna do and
it's live streams are great. And, and I intend to do some
shows lit but I'm gonna have to do some production because we
have to, we can't release a podcast before with music and it
before all the chapter value blocks are in. So we're gonna
want to take this one. I'm gonna do some little extra work on
this, not just ram it out live and get it done. But it's gonna
be for the ages and I'm very excited. There's our Sam Sethi,
which we read Thank you very much Sam Brian of London.
7100 71,948 So a super Israel Israel boost. 1948 being the
date there. Of course hive has decentralized identity and
comments smiley face with laughing tears. And here's my
boost is about two times what I pay for chat. GPT which I've got
to say has become very useful to me learning view and JavaScript.
Well, good. I'm glad chat GPT that I love what's happening
with chat GPT it's too funny.
Dave Jones: Never, never never gonna know not a champion.
That's not
Adam Curry: interested. It did write a cool shell script for
me. That was interesting. Steven B 1111. Oh, yeah, yeah, why was
a very base if I could have gone to Stack Overflow,
Dave Jones: and got RM dash RM dash RF slash. There's your
There you go.
Adam Curry: Martin Linda's coke. 1776 More power to Martin apod
friend best premises. Martin Lee does coke. Absurd observations?
Oh, hold on him sir. Observation
Unknown: Sakala 20 his blade only Impala. 100,000
Adam Curry: Satoshis. How does one whoa not know the intro to
Baker Street? That's from our pre pre show. Running with
Scissors emojis, love these lit conversations and agree with DJ
about nostril. Go podcast. All right. Circus media 12345
Elementary booths. Good work. Gentlemen. Thank you for your
courage. Thank you very much circus media. Pete's bawling.
That's it Ah guy 11,111 Nice satchel Richards my first live
boost Welcome to the club ma'am. We got the mike Newman one on
one on one. Oh, thank you. We got the Dred Scott Satoshi slam.
Eric p p 33,333. We got the anonymous boosting for the boost
thank you with you one to one to one to 8000 SATs from our Davis
87 and boosting for Dave Jones in concert
Dave Jones: man a woman
Adam Curry: go podcasting and some service goat karma I
thought was the goat no karma but a goat goat. Let's see then.
This is all from the pre show. Tone record. 1111 Murata wrote
Donna Summers hit I feel love. Yes, indeed he did. 2222 from
tone record Friday is live day way to kick off the afternoon
neverending story written by Giorgio Moroder for limahl and
we were doing a lot of illegal stuff earlier, weren't we?
Anonymous testing the booths terrific boosts chat F 3333. Got
my pod burst notification all systems go. And, yes, lyceum. I
got a needed positive push from one of my co hosts on one of my
podcasts. Martin colong. Talk to our incoming guests about the
value of new podcast apps and features like clips making from
an episode if you're a guest. You are known from internet
radio and Here's an excerpt a teaser from the conversation
I've no idea what I'm reading, thanks to fountain fountain pod
verse at all for making it possible. And now with POD fans
going from Alpha stage to Running with Scissors, scissors
emoji upside down smiley emoji from Martin Linda's code. And
let's see, then I believe there's one more here. Dobby das
Dobie das
Dave Jones: na ws Rs This blue
Adam Curry: 29675 message encrypted in the SAT amount to
96752967
Dave Jones: What would the would the code be?
Adam Curry: I don't know what the code 29675 Upside Down PSL G
known as not upside. work if you stumped you stumped the band.
Dave Jones: Basic 64.
Adam Curry: No idea. No idea what you're talking about. Hey.
No, no, that's a delimiter delimiter delimiter. Okay. Go
over to you, Bob.
Dave Jones: Eating at me up. Okay.
Adam Curry: You're good to go.
Dave Jones: We got we got exactly one Pay Pal this week.
And that was from Marco $500. Oh, we'll
Adam Curry: take that. Thank you very much. Mark.
Unknown: Sakala 20 is played on him, Paula.
Adam Curry: I love how we don't have to tell him anything. Don't
we don't tell him what to do. And he supports us.
Dave Jones: That's what he said. I don't want to be told what to
do. So and we don't
Adam Curry: we don't? We don't. It's a very simple
Dave Jones: relationship.
Adam Curry: Yes. It's one of the best ones we have. And we
appreciate it so much. We really thank you, Marco go overcast.
Dave Jones: I'll read the I'll read the monthlies first because
we only get we've got four of those and then we'll read the
booths. All right, we got monthlies where Michael Gagan $5
Charles current $5 Trevor zener $5 and Paul airscale $11.14
Thank you. We
Adam Curry: got six servers running for that we appreciate
that. So that's those are the monthlies. I think a lot of
people gave up too. I mean, I really feel that this tax season
hurt us.
Dave Jones: It hurt me.
Adam Curry: For sure. I'll tell you it hurt me too. Yeah, I'm so
mad because I could have given money more money away turns out
you can give you can give away more than you used to this year
for some reason. Oh, really? Yeah. I thought it was 10 grand.
And but now you can give away more. I'm like, and I could have
traveled more because I can write that off. Now instead of
sending it to Ukraine. It's like
Dave Jones: a 111 hamara at a time yeah. See, so we got some
booths we got anonymous central Richards go podcasting thinking
on this thank you get the trickler since 1234 That would
be the Swedish trickling through fountain he says go podcasting.
Adam Curry: Yes won't give them one
Dave Jones: we'll see total recur sent 9999 through fountain
he says worlds colliding an episode with quality people
building things, exploring ideas and even multiple chat rooms
running in the curry countdown teaser idea tossed out at the
end boom.
Adam Curry: Yes. Well, and we're taking we're taking it beyond
the countdown. The countdown was just one you know. There was
some valid feedback about the countdown and The, you know,
this is always the problem with countdowns with charts, which is
why don't like him? Obviously, we can't just do it on amount of
SATs received because then anyone could boost themselves
into the into the top, top 10. Right, Joe, you know, we have to
avoid that.
Dave Jones: It's I mean, they would essentially do what Taylor
Swift does. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So we want to avoid that. So that's why I'm so
excited about just starting, just starting a show with
artists who are valued for value. Everybody gets paid, by
the way, so does your app, your app your app gets everybody gets
a piece. You know, I gotta say one more thing. So someone on on
nostril mostly, if I'm loaded up here, created something called
zap worthy. And immediately went to no agenda on an episode and
shows that Oh, no, I can zap your show. I'm like, please
don't do this. You're cutting out everybody who's in the value
block split. Right? Now it's like ah,
Dave Jones: this this is a problem. I don't understand.
Yeah, I don't there's no and this is a frustrating thing
about about the nostre development community that
they're not they're not seeing they're not seeing all these
things and they're not cutting everything this okay, I'm not
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go Jihad them. I'm gonna get back
to booster grand. Okay, because I'm going to end up spending 15
Min. I everybody will leave.
Adam Curry: What who's watching? Is anybody still here? Pauling,
Dave Jones: P.
Adam Curry: Pauling.
Dave Jones: Do you know Pete Pauling?
Adam Curry: Well, it's a Dutch name and Pete would be Pete and
Pauling is eel is piling is a very Dutch like eating their
eel. Yielding eel pilings, we say hey, like a bottling kit?
Yeah.
Dave Jones: Good. So you must know him right? Of course.
Adam Curry: Of course. I'd probably I probably slept with
them. It's
Dave Jones: it's like, it's like that old the old some old
episode of The Roseanne Barr show it was Roseanne Episode
Episode of Roseanne, where it was like one of their like, her
balls or something was was gay. And he's like, Yeah, I'm he's
like at Poker Night. And he's like, yeah, he's a young guy.
And nobody knew it get a price get super uncomfortable. All
these you know, dudes, and they're like, Oh, I know a guy
who's gay. He lives in Chicago. You must know. His name's John.
He's Oh, yeah. Yeah, no engage John from Chicago. Everybody
knows gauge for Chicago.
Adam Curry: Sir bemrose says something in the in the chat
here says addict perhaps David data could publish more
information about how the index helps to provide podcasters with
inbound SATs. That's what we do wasn't a very good explanation.
I'd said literally, send us your node and we'll open a channel. I
don't know what more explanation if someone knows they need an
inbound SATs than they know what they're talking about. Yes, that
but okay, maybe it's confusing for so you can use a custodial
service, like get Alby or even fountain or any other type of
system out there. Or you can set up your own. And if you set up
your own, we're happy to open a channel to you so that SATs can
flow to you. And otherwise we're getting into explaining how the
Lightning Network works. I don't think that's what we want to do.
Dave Jones: Yeah, if if you are having trouble maintaining
enough liquidity, ask us for a bigger channel and we will give
you a bigger channel. I mean, that's pretty simple, right?
Yeah, yeah. Pizza the pizza doesn't send a donation on chain
but somehow is not showing up on the tally coin page.
Unknown: No, hold on a second
Adam Curry: here. Tada is your tally coin broken tally bomb
banana.
Dave Jones: Let me say I hope it's not broken. That's the
chain baby.
Adam Curry: It's on Shane. Man. We'll see we got I have ninth of
April but that I thought we read that one. I don't see anything
else on the Yeah, that was the 33,330 Sam is super cool. He's
like yeah, that's from that was from chyron. Something must have
gone wrong. I don't know when you sent it. Something was a
chain. You broke he broke it man. It's
Dave Jones: Fleetwood Mac with it. Oh, another one for pay.
Pauling 4321 Ah, see now was not showing up on telecoil I sent
the wrong amount.
Adam Curry: Okay, thanks. Yeah, I guess
Dave Jones: to solve a problem by doing nothing at all. Chad F
3333. Can't wait for Adams top 40 radio show. Same here Comac.
Formic 9999 through fountains to celebrating growth my show
America plus has been in the top 50 shows on fountain for two
weeks in a row got nice boost in show's history. Value for value
is real. Yeah,
Adam Curry: podcast All right man. Congratulations. Another
valuable value story success story.
Dave Jones: Are Davis at seven with a boob donation 8008
through pod verse he says in the morning after trying to correct
my original boost boosting this is what I had originally meant.
I'm looking forward to a wave link wave Lake top 40 Friday
nights at eight at eight o'clock. Industry
Adam Curry: Okay. Eight o'clock. All right. Sure. Yeah, there you
go. I mean, I already have no Sunday module given my Friday
night. Yes, sir. You don't need dinner. I don't need a life. No,
Dave Jones: no, no. JDP 10,000 says no note. Thank you. JDP
Clark, Ian 25,001 SATs with a beep beep boop boop. Thank lucky
Thank you very much. Renee. nega 3521 is the data do their
Adam Curry: job. Very good.
Dave Jones: Get off conifa. Sneaker, can you can you love
the podcast? Let's have a beer. If one of you guys are in
Utrecht, the Netherlands
Adam Curry: if I'm lost Yes. From last nowhere no, no, no,
no, not at all. No, it's actually pretty cool. Pretty
cool town.
Dave Jones: Mere Mortals podcast 2222 aroa Ducks through fountain
nice a super fired up for music in the value blocks.
Adam Curry: Yeah, we're getting cheap. What are people excited
about? What are they excited about? Yeah. music music of
course.
Dave Jones: Sir. Bill 25,000 SATs through fountain says love
the music chats keep it up.
Adam Curry: Yep, yep. Yeah, we struck a nerve. We struck a
nerve.
Dave Jones: But Borsen Borsen Glaber 100 sets through fountain
he says Adam and Dave, you have one of the best intros within
podcasting universe just wanted to state that keep on rockin
Adam Curry: Thank you. We paid for it. We paid for it. Yes, you
paid for it.
Dave Jones: Debellis Zack into Bozak another big donation 808
through fountain no note. Thank you to Bozak absurdity it gave
us 3000 SATs through fountain he says V for V scissors. Gene
Everett a big row of ducks. 22 to 22 through fountain says
boost loves the music end of this. I look forward to posting
my own music via podcasting. 2.0
Adam Curry: This is going to be so huge, Dave. Yeah. Because
what do we have? We have? What is the number one category of
podcast right now? True Crime true crime. After that, it's
news. I'd say news ish type talks off. And then for kids.
Yeah. Well, you get that tag. It was gonna be making podcasts for
kids. I think I think music will be huge, because it's been so
impossible to do. And I know that people gravitate even even
though I'm, you know, I like playing the hits. The hits that
I know. I'm looking forward to playing New hits and making new
hits. That's the dream of every radio guy. I broke that record.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, good. That's
Adam Curry: what you want. I broke that record, man. Come on,
man. I broke that. And, and we all made money on it. That's the
point.
Dave Jones: That's like, I heard this Cleveland, Cleveland, Ohio
DJ, there was I think it was a I think it was a woman that she
was like she to this day tells the story of how she was the
first one to play rush song and like broke them out to the
American market.
Adam Curry: And you and there will be three other DJs across
the country who will claim the same thing. But in this case,
everyone has receipts, which is kind of cool.
Dave Jones: literacies 22 to 22 through fountaining says
boosting for Sam means been loving his music since the days
of the format sending V for V his way on wave Lake. Nice.
Nice. Jean been to 22 to 22. Another big row of dogs to cast
thematic Jean says Wasn't there some talk a little while back
about cast ematic or someone working on presenting a
different interface when the feed is medium equals music.
That could certainly kickstart some V for V music playback.
Yeah, I'd suggested that to to Franco and he said that. He said
that that was a great idea. So I don't know if that means he's
going to
Adam Curry: do it. Say that say that again. What's the idea?
Dave Jones: So the idea was just specifically in cast thematic on
this, in this instance, that Franco would make a change so
that when it detects that a feed is medium of music, oh, he would
reorder it would set the player up to do the right thing.
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly what Spotify tried and reverse and
pretty much failed up.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but the Franco will succeed Of course, as well,
man.
Adam Curry: He's Franco Yeah,
Dave Jones: that's right. Todd Cochran 10,000 says Adam and
Dave love the show doing an in a beat demo boost.
Adam Curry: Oh, nice. Thank you very much. A booth boost. Booth
post. Booth booth babe. Nice.
Dave Jones: Yes. He's the boost baby. Yep, thank you, John. Joe
ws satchel Richards No, no thank you, Joe.
Adam Curry: I wonder if I wonder if the person who was who was
getting the demo went mad towards like a tight ass man.
Tend to
Dave Jones: Todd that 10,000 That's a lot and don't worry
about it's only like 50 They're like, Well, okay, do me 5000
SATs thanks. Through the podcast on this website. This is demoing
V for V payments. We got demos going.
Adam Curry: Demos everywhere, baby love it.
Dave Jones: Another one Mike Dell 1000 SATs through pod
verse. He says hi guys showing off V for V.
Adam Curry: Cool. This must have been at NAB, I guess.
Dave Jones: Yeah, must be Todd Cochran. Again, what have you
got baller boost. You get your finger on there. Yeah. Todd
Cochran? 100,420 sets.
Adam Curry: Yeah, we know what that's for.
Unknown: Sakala 20 is Blaze on am Paula.
Adam Curry: Right brother. Thank
Dave Jones: you. Go podcasting. Happy belated for 20 Day boost.
pricy pants citizen sent us 500 says thank you, Percy pants,
Borlaug. 42,091 sets of strong work, gentlemen,
Adam Curry: Chris, thank you. Also for 20 I guess and 91 I
don't know what now I'm just seeing 420s everywhere.
Dave Jones: Thanks, George. Oh, Roy scheinfeld Go back 4321 He
Adam Curry: loves us again. Hello, Roy. Hello Roy Hello
Don't just stand there boost Thank you Royce from breathing
from breathe
Dave Jones: 675 message encrypted in the I have
Adam Curry: no no idea what that's about.
Dave Jones: Okay, well, we've got the delimiter here though
who
Adam Curry: calmly stripped it is here he is ladies and
gentlemen. Yes 30 3015
Dave Jones: through fountain he says dearest Dave and
accountable Adam. If imitation be the food of flattery podcast
on should at some time your current point of view on that
which is called artificial intelligence change from the
distraction of in five in bluster to one of informed
consent do consider AI dot cooking podcast show where
granular Gregory Forman they provide handy ciders as to the
navigate the coming Fourth Industrial Complex yo CSB and
goof Alright, so
Adam Curry: Chad GBT AI you know what it is? It's the Segway.
That's what it is. Yeah, GPP is the new segway.
Dave Jones: Didn't somebody die on a Segway? Yeah, the
Adam Curry: CEO of the company. fell off a cliff. Yeah, pretty
much. But I just remember all l that was the same all venture
capitalist. Everyone had one all the VC were riding around their
offices on the Segway. I had one I have a castle, I drove the
Segway through the castle, and people's cities are going to
change life is going to change. Nothing will be the same. The
Segway is the future. That's what Chad GPT is to me.
Dave Jones: Is the Segway the Segway of, of cloud 2.0.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Segway of web three, or something like that.
Yeah. Good luck, everybody. Good luck. Good luck finding a
business model Silicon Valley.
Dave Jones: Let's regroup. Regroup for this week.
Adam Curry: So good news, bad news. Wednesday, I have my final
oral operation. Okay. This will be a three hour knock them out
operation so not as bad as the first one. It is of course,
entirely possible. Friday may be a no go for me. That all depends
on swelling, etc. Yes, sir.
Dave Jones: Okay. Not to be dealt with. I mean, well, we
don't have a guests. Next week. Okay. I think is is two weeks
from now on May the fifth? I think
Adam Curry: it is. Yes. Yeah. Because that'll be the 26th.
Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dave Jones: We got Sam Sethi on May the 14th. We don't have a
guest next week.
Adam Curry: Oh, Sam Sethi. Come on. That's right. Oh, that'll be
fun. You can explain to us how pod fans work. Because man, when
when he when he sends me an email is like, a lot of
screenshots. I'm afraid
Dave Jones: to actually like if I have an idea for a tag. Yeah.
I'm afraid sometimes to say it out loud because you're afraid
he's going to implement right away.
Adam Curry: Yeah, he'll do the music though. I know how to
build the music. He'll there'll be all over that right away.
Dave Jones: All right. Okay, go. I'm gonna go get my picture made
with William Shatner. I
Adam Curry: am so excited for you. We are going to post that
post it on the social let us know that we want to see it.
Well, and tell him I said hey, we'll do you Note William
Shatner, absolutely not, but just tell him I said, Hey Dave,
have a great weekend, man. Have a good time at the Star Trek
convention chat room. Thank you, along with the nostril bass chat
room. We'll be back. Hopefully in a week, right here podcast
2.0
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