Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for May 19 2023, episode 133
Mike Kadin: It's a lifestyle.
Adam Curry: Friday once again, time for the board meeting and
podcasting. 2.0 the only left boardroom that's got to be. Give
me a beat. That's right. Everything happening in Podcast.
index.org is all about the namespace, sexy, hot namespace
talk. And of course, everything happening in podcast index dot
social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill
Country and in Alabama. Everybody knows his database is
way bigger than yours. Say hello to my friend on the other end.
Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones.
Dave Jones: Perfect timing. Just swallow this sandwich. I'm
clean. I'm ready to go.
Adam Curry: All right. Welcome, Dan. Welcome. You know, you're
it's okay to eat during the board meeting. You know, as long
as you don't smack too much. It's okay.
Dave Jones: It better because I gotta ask Cream Sandwich.
Adam Curry: What are you? What are you eating? What is on
Dave's menu today? And let me just preface this. Dave. Of
course, it takes off time from his day job to do the board
meeting. He normally only has an hour, but I guess he doesn't eat
on Thursdays so that he can take two hours on Fridays. Is that
true?
Dave Jones: Yes. Yes. No, this today's menu was a turkey
sandwich. And an ice cream sandwich which I'm now about to
partake in. Very nice. The the horrible thing that just
happened before the show was I came I came home. And so we got
new chickens.
Adam Curry: Is this a past tense thing now? No, no,
Dave Jones: no, no, we still have we still
Adam Curry: have a couple of years chickens.
Dave Jones: We have our full allotment of chickens stone.
This was not an this was not a circumstance where the chickens
were destroyed or mutilated by some by something. Which
chickens love to do they love to get themselves killed.
Adam Curry: I mean, it's it's pretty much what they do. They
lay eggs and get killed.
Dave Jones: Eggs, like scratching in the dirt and then
like getting themselves destroyed. I mean, horrible
ways. They're not like they don't just die of natural
causes.
Adam Curry: There's always like feathers and blood and guts
smeared out over the ground. That's kind of the end of every
chicken. Yeah, if there's no trauma,
Dave Jones: it didn't happen. So this this is like so I come home
but we have we have new chickens, the little peeps,
Chick chicks. Oh, pizza, we have six of them. And Melissa was
worried about it storming outside today. So she brought
them in and put them in a tub, Rubbermaid tub in the podcast
room because that would be the dog and the cat away. So I come
in and of course what has happened is they have gotten out
of the tub and they're everywhere and around. Yes.
They've been running around in the yes.
Adam Curry: Are they still up the yellow little yellow variety
little chickadees
Dave Jones: Oh yeah, there's little pup
Adam Curry: How come I don't hear him in the background. But
there's chicken
Dave Jones: crap. all over the floor. What but don't little
chicks
Adam Curry: make small to chicken poops?
Dave Jones: Give it there's 100 little piles of it. I mean, I
was just furiously cleaning the floor. He smells horrible in
here. I was furiously cleaning the floor at like, you know 1225
You know, it's like, Oh my God. We got five minutes. It's
Adam Curry: okay to podcast from from chicken poop. It's okay. We
could have done it after the show. Smells like shit in here.
I'll bet it does.
Dave Jones: Which I mean, like I read a thing. So which is a
perfect segue though. Because I was reading this morning. The
the incredible investigative journalism from
Adam Curry: Vox Oh yeah. Yes, yes, the Vox Media Network home
of Kara Swisher and the award winning tech podcast pivot.
Dave Jones: Yes. They have brought us an in depth
investigative report about about that free range chickens. Free
Range doesn't really mean free range.
Adam Curry: No kidding.
Dave Jones: Which is I'm stunned by this revelation. Organic
Adam Curry: doesn't mean healthy or good for you. Really, this is
fascinating.
Dave Jones: This is so here's here's let me just read a little
bit. This says the investigator documented hours upon hours of
the typical horrors found on chicken factory farms 10s of
1000s of birds stuffed into dark warehouse sized barns, many of
them severely injured with gruesome lesions, injuries and
deformities. At more than one point birds are deprived of food
or water and there was also a rat infestation and footage of
bugs crawling in the chickens feed now
Adam Curry: and that's just your studio.
Dave Jones: Do you know what we call bugs? in a context of
chickens
Adam Curry: or your food? Food? Yes.
Dave Jones: bugs were crawling in the chicken feet. No bugs are
the chicken feet and that's not a problem, man. It's
Adam Curry: not an issue. These people they did have
Dave Jones: this this. This article is 35 one 100 words and
they have a really good one. A really good term, a broiler
technician advisor. I like that
Adam Curry: broiler technician advisor yeah I want to be that
sounds like the guy who comes around with a warranty papers.
Dave Jones: But here's the here's a good one says the USDA
says chicken producers using the label free range must provide
birds continuous free access to the outside. Get and get this
here's the kicker for over 51% of their six week lives. What
these things only live for six weeks weeks. And you can they're
big enough to eat
Adam Curry: your gross and everybody out and you just ate a
turkey sandwich. What do you think that was like? What do you
How long do you think that thing lived?
Dave Jones: Oh, it's a long life. hit it out of old natural
causes.
Adam Curry: Okay, good. Well, we did it again. What we did when
we sent another song to the top of the wavelength charts.
Makers. Oh, drab. You're interrupting the show. 20th
blades on am bollocks had mentioned that the new the new
pod friend. I guess we call it 2.0. But it's just www dot pod
friend.com is live. And Dred Scott immediately tested the
envelope by boosting us 222,222 SATs putting his kids further
into the poorhouse.
Dave Jones: He's not gonna have kids anymore.
Adam Curry: You have to hawk the kids to boost because I need to
push more. Take my child.
Dave Jones: Like Daddy, why can't we go to college? Because
I love this show.
Adam Curry: Because podcasting 2.0 is important child.
Goodness, thank you very much drab. And congratulations,
Martin. He's running with scissors today. He he got tired
of saying yeah, maybe next week, maybe next week. It's so hard
sometimes. I've noticed this with certain developers not
saying that. Martin is one of them. But in my career and life.
Some developers have a real it's really it's scary or something
for them to release. It's a hard thing to do. And it's always
like, I can make it a little bit better a little bit better. Just
me fix this one thing. And Martin just ripped it off, man.
Dave Jones: I've never had that problem.
Adam Curry: And that shows.
Dave Jones: Thanks, man. Like,
Adam Curry: like, just kidding.
Dave Jones: There is no barrier to release with me. No, there
isn't no
Adam Curry: but your stuff. It always works. It just your UI is
just simple. You know, Martin's got I mean, this thing. He's got
some really nice stuff going on. Like, even without asking. And
you don't go to a separate tab for the transcript. It just
shows up in little cartoon bubbles. So if you have your,
your person tag enabled, so like on our show, when I'm talking my
head shows up with little cartoon bubble, and then when
you talk your head shows up. That's so cool. It's very cool.
And it's without asking which I like, you know, saw you Oh, do
you want to do you want to follow along no just pops up.
It's just
Dave Jones: there. It gives you the things that it thinks will
make you happy.
Adam Curry: It's a friendly little app. It's called pod
friend. That's why
Dave Jones: I'm drinking out of my WWW dot pod friend.com.
McGraw Hill. Very nice. Yes. This worked out great. Because
on the front, it says WWW dot pod friend.com. Which happens to
be it used to be web dot pod friend.com was the player and
now 2.0 is WWW dot pod friend.com. In a way, it just it
just it just sunk right into the right spot.
Adam Curry: Now she's going to do app stores, you're gonna
stick with a progressive web app.
Dave Jones: I think he's doing apps because he did. He he re
architected it with with with a one of those cross platform
things that would let him in a release apps as well.
Adam Curry: Oh, like swallow or what is it called fallow letter?
Dave Jones: water or water? It's not for a while, like swallow
Adam Curry: better honestly.
Dave Jones: That's not a framework. That's a bad
framework. I used it before I fired it up this morning. And
when I saw you released it and connected my lb wallet boom. Can
Rata Oh yeah, that works. It's totally in all my history, too.
Adam Curry: I saw I saw to My Account Exactly. Well, that's
impressive. You know, when you launch something new and your
old account still works. That's pretty impressive. I like that.
Dave Jones: Because it's not always easy, because you got
different. I mean, you got you got to really think about
pulling that stuff. And I've had to do those before where you go
from an old, you rewrite something and then you you have
to make allowances for that.
Adam Curry: Anyway, so it's also has lit capability. I saw that
so the live shows are functioning and people are
testing it around and doing all kinds of stuff. So it's very,
very, very cool. Martin, congrats on that. And so I'm
proud of him. He just went Screw it. I just got it. I'm running
with scissors. And this is the place to do it you know, we're
the group to do it with no one's gonna be like, Man, your app
sucks. No, we're amazed any of this shit works like wow it
Dave Jones: worked. We didn't believe iSeries Yeah, we need
the gym running
Adam Curry: with scissors Alright, so speaking of which,
let's run with some scissors right now if you're listening
live then you're in for a treat. But also if you're listening
after the fact we're going to push another artists to the top
of the wave Lake top 40 These are these are songs that I have
picked up at kind of at random just poking around listening on
Ellen beats.com you know looking at what's going on a wavelength
but these are songs that have a value block and that are
accessible through through the system it's an I was thinking
about how beautiful this this interrupt used to be back in the
80s and 90s people talk interrupt do have interrupt but
got interrupt got into a yoga interrupt. Well this is cool,
you got to interrupt we got interrupt, and for us it's like
this whole interoperates you know every you can use that Alby
wallet you can use your own lightning node you can use you
know you put your song a wave Lake it's available in the in
the index I mean all this stuff it's it's so beautiful. Through
its simplicity I guess that it just kind of works and no one no
one really has to talk to anyone else just you do it this way and
then anyone else can tie into it.
Dave Jones: Let's see what happens when you build on it
when you build on protocols you don't have to write make
interfaces for things to interrupt they just interrupt
bothered
Adam Curry: by being just by being by exists. Yes.
Dave Jones: Yes. Interrupt through existence.
Adam Curry: Who I like that interrupt through existence. So
I have had I've chosen other Samba what Steven B has now done
remember this is in between, like putting light sockets into
office buildings. Yes. I'm sure he has to tell us what he does.
I'm sure he I'm sure we know isn't doesn't he design
electrical plan for buildings
Dave Jones: or if I'm not mistaken. I think that he told
us before that he does estimates project estimates. Oh, okay. As
I think that he takes the designs and then like tells you
how much it's gonna hurt.
Adam Curry: Well, he's doing all this for the love of Satoshis
which is just beautiful. So he has created within sovereign
feeds now sovereign feeds.com is what I've been using for all of
my podcasts since we started this marry adventure. Which is
always fun because we had a little issue just before the
last no agenda live show. We wanted to svelte libraries shit
the bed or something.
Dave Jones: No, it's this server. The server he was on
wasn't big enough to handle me to handle
Adam Curry: to handle the pod father, I hear yes, of course.
If you want the pod father on your server, you better come
with some girth. All right, there we are. Friday, it's
Friday, everybody we are we are punchy. This is my feed creator.
This is where we totally run with scissors. When we did the
initial test, where we switched literally switched the wallet
from this podcast to the artists were playing so that all the
stats that you're sending in in real time streaming or any
boosts are then switched to the artists when the song ends, they
switch back to us.
Dave Jones: And yeah, so we which has been working because
we've been driving people to the top.
Adam Curry: Yes, we drove Joe Martin to the east number two
after we sent rusty gate to the top. And now I picked us it's a
little shorter today. But it's a it's a crazy song that even
though it's in German, I think everybody will love singing
along to it because you can sing along to this. And what's
happening now is in real time only if you're using curio
caster because no one else has implemented this and that's
going to be kind of my next Ask is not necessarily for the for
the live stuff. But man wouldn't it be nice if we could have one
or two more apps that know how to switch over the value block?
Ie switch the wallet to the artist? Because I'm ready I'm
I'm ready to do a show. I mean I know I don't need another
podcast in my life but I really need to do my music show I'm
ready for it. So I don't know you know, the I know fountain is
coming soon with with their lit capability people are already
testing it. Pod verse does lit and if we can start adding this
about this time value time split is that what we call it? Yes,
value time split, which I know also involves the remote item
being kind of semi formalized in the namespace. If but man if we
can do that then crowd then we're I got I got DJs who have
jobs who are like, I can't wait and then they already bring in
artists on to their onboarding them into Wave lake. And they're
helping them set it up so that they're available through the
index and there's some good stuff coming. Some really good
stuff.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we I mean, this will be ready we can
formalize this quick. I mean, like this will be ready to be
rolled up remote item tags already going to be in in phase
six, that'll be next month and then the value time split.
That's mean, there's really no debate around that. That's a,
that's just a thing that does what it does. So I think it's, I
don't see I don't see any barrier. Okay, you know, what
I'm saying?
Adam Curry: Well, well, the barrier is everyone's busy.
Everyone's everyone's doing stuff. So I know it's just one
of those things. Normalization
Dave Jones: is probably even people you know, that's never
stopped Steven D. No,
Adam Curry: no. Well, he and Alex basically came to me Alex
wrote it up, and Steven just said, Screw it. I'm going to do
it. Oh, screw it, I'm gonna do it. Alright, so he played this
song it comes from the now I have some things simply what it
is, well, let me tell you first what I'm doing. So I have on my
on my launch dashboard. I've got the song and when I started
recording the show I hit start sinking which as sy n c i n g
not sinking like we're going below water although and so now
the idea is when I start the song then I hit the sync button
and that then switches out the value block for now this is from
club rap. This is from the album club rap playlist. Now so I
believe the name of the band is too bit to fail not too big to
fail but too big to fail. And they're clearly German and this
is the anthem money printer go burn enjoy everybody
Unknown: money printing money printing money printing money
printing money print money printable machine coefficient
don't get on in Bitcoin as the feeder money money on the end to
get in touch yet look at printed instantly Bolton was like god
damn fool do you think of some Gallup Colton stock pumped up
veteran fiat money accepted? Oh she's the human cup. Getting in
Boston the foot dog blah And Kobach McAlinden Haley Haley
Haley helicopter money printing, money printing, money printing
money printing money printing money printing machine
coefficient on Bitcoin money printing money printing, money
printing money printing money printing demand your printer
machine coefficient printer printer cost you to get on in
Bitcoin monoprint hobbies into the stock swarm carbon monoprint
up questionable behavior inconsistent throws coffee time
clocks out Wi Fi custom coffee not your cup of tea muscle
disordered monoprint Alloxan and to fly to brand China and flash
bag and test crush life it is tough to test Clickbank motors
excellent enhanced motors that keep me money print money out of
thin air now the bazooka shows to hide shows it in hookah I
invoke talks Brokenshire below two man hours of the machinery
Martin fucking fiat money printing money printing money
printing money printing machines
like coefficient Satoshi some key on in Bitcoin money printing
money printing money printing money printing money print on
demand printer machine coefficient printer printer
crushes okay all in Bitcoin
Adam Curry: I think the point of the song is obvious
Dave Jones: this song is awesome. I love this
Adam Curry: song is great. It's good so it's killer. It's like
the kindest thing you played October fest you know when
you're all hammered you know? Boy money printer girl put her
money printer go. I already know the hook. It's so beautiful. I
love this.
Dave Jones: Allah heard I heard something about a helicopter.
Helicopter money printing money out of thin
Adam Curry: air. Yeah. English in there. Okay. Now, you may
want to keep using your curio Kassar because I did want to
read an email and by the way, so I was looking when I hit this
thing up on the on the value block. Everything happened by
itself so all sudden, the song shows up. The remote value block
shows up. The podcast or value block shows up with no because
we still get 5% and then and because it knows the duration of
the song. It it knows exactly when to stop sync. I think it
knows when to stop syncing. So then it goes finished. It should
just To automatically switch back to us I think I don't know.
Dave Jones: Okay, because I was gonna I was about to boost it
and and I don't know if it'll get to us or it no if
Adam Curry: you boost it now it'd be you're too late now I
think now Yeah, I'm pretty sure now it goes back to us and you
know I need a third screen is what I need.
Dave Jones: Do you need three monitors? Yeah, I
Adam Curry: need a third monitor to be able to do all this good.
We got a really nice note from Matt Bigelow.
Dave Jones: Okay Steven basis it does not automatically switch
back. Oh, how
Adam Curry: do I stop as Steven B?
Dave Jones: He said read refresh sovereignties refresh sovereign
feeds I don't know he's it's this is this is confusing.
Adam Curry: doesn't activate podcast and valuable okay. Oh, I
see. So now just hit Activate podcast has value block. And now
we're back to the podcaster value block. Okay. All right.
Good. So we give them a little extra time their freebie okay.
Oh, Stephen says it didn't work. It didn't fail. Oh no, it didn't
work. He wants me to refresh sovereign feeds Okay, it's
alright. It's alright. It's alright. Of course in the when
we go to the the podcast version of the show, you can obviously
if you're listening to that and you were boosting on sovereign
and a curio caster it is going to that that part we know works.
Dave Jones: Because it'll just happened after the fact now the
live thing didn't did evidently didn't work.
Adam Curry: Correct. Correct. Okay, so I'm back. Oh, I see.
Here's we'll activate value. Oh, okay. Oh, I see what's going on.
It's all right. Well, then let's do this. Since since that didn't
work we'll do a piece of a second one. And then we got to
get to our guests here in the boardroom because we're just
being super rude.
Dave Jones: Man Oh, no, we're not playing that he's enjoying
the tunes.
Adam Curry: We Okay, so I see what happened. I didn't have to
activate he said I could do it with the sync button but I need
to activate value block. All right, so we'll do it now for
the second song. Matt Bigelow sent sent a note he says Thanks
to Dave on episode 132 for mentoring my song fudge on wave
Lake. You say he probably got all jacked like oh yeah, I gotta
put my stop Nope. I'm a musician who has long hated Spotify and
the rest because they make all the money and give artists likes
and a dumb dashboard in return. Yeah. That sounds about right.
You get likes you get likes. I wrote to you a couple of times
about computer vision and tick tock and have produced a jingle
and some Japan oriented clips in the past six years. So he really
loves the idea of of having this in the in the value block and
having it switch over the value time block. So I figure we'll
play a little bit of his song fudge which you turned me on to
and I have activated the value block so it seems like that is
now working I hit the sync I think and if it worked
Dave Jones: even said it's working they said the art
changed the album marching Alright
Adam Curry: here it is. This is Futch travel you need space oh
yo man people most man live
Unknown: shoot him is
no person there we go
Adam Curry: all right. Oh my goodness all right. So it seems
like it works that time.
Dave Jones: Let me see Yeah, I had my curio caster with muted
tab up in the art the art switched oh really album art of
the of the
Adam Curry: badass now what can I do I switch this back Yeah,
and I switch it back to okay now I'm understanding the launch
dashboard too. Oh man. Okay, I got one have to pause syncing
all that's all messed up now. All right. Wow. All right. This
seems like we have a successful test. Very cool. For those of
you not participating in this live test, please do that after
the fact let's send one or both of these songs to the top with
your booths that are really help and of course, we had to meet is
popping in with 101010. Blaze only him All right, that's the
experimental part of the show. I think we should bring in our
guests or we can talk about all things podcasting to point out
outside of the music. Would you please welcome from red circle
co founder and overall head honcho ladies and gentlemen here
in the boardroom. Mike. Kaiden. Sup? Sup, man, where you
participating in the test? Did you
Mike Kadin: know but I was listening and it was it was
quite enjoyable. If you can play more ridiculous Bitcoin songs
like that.
Adam Curry: Trust me, there's a lot of that. That's quite the
genre.
Dave Jones: No, I was too busy cleaning up a chicken disaster
before. I didn't have time to properly, properly say Hey, so
what's up, Mike?
Mike Kadin: What's up, man? How are you?
Dave Jones: Good. Like you were. You were telling me? You sent me
an email or like, Hey, I've got some dia dar chops. Let's talk.
And so we're, you know, is the question. Well, red circle just
rather than me tell everybody about red circle? Sure. Why
don't you just lay it out first?
Mike Kadin: Yeah, I mean, we're a we're a podcast hosting
platform. But there's, as you know, there's 30 Of those,
right? So what we do in specific is that we're really focused on
helping podcasters that want to make money on their podcast,
make money. And so we do that with ads. We do that with more
typical payments, you know, credit card subscriptions,
things like that. And then we have like a full featured
hosting platform with some some cool tools, cross promotions,
dynamic assertion, all that good stuff. So, you know, it's a
monetization focused podcast hosting company. And so we do
have our own homegrown dynamic insertion and stitching
technology. So and I wrote, you know, I put myself in a dark
hole back in 2018, and wrote all that. And so I'm, I'm a good
dude to jam with. If you guys are trying to figure out how we
can make these things all play nice together. Well,
Adam Curry: let me ask right off the bat, since that you must
have been early with the with the dynamic insertions.
Mike Kadin: I think it existed. I mean, I came up with the idea
myself thinking was brilliant. And then by the time I built it,
I realized there was five or six other companies that could
already do it. Because I didn't know anything about podcasting.
At the time. I was just a listener. But yeah, you know,
there's there's not a ton of companies that have their own
technology for it, because it's not, you know, it's not for the
faint of heart.
Adam Curry: No, and I think that's probably what what,
because I know, you do support transcripts. I bet, right?
Mike Kadin: We do. But we don't, you know, I think we should talk
about this today. But we don't like you know, dynamically
adjust them. So it's, it's like a static file for now.
Adam Curry: Okay, so when you have an insert, then it gets out
of out of sync.
Mike Kadin: That's right. And, you know, there's tons of
podcasters that use red circle that don't do ads and don't do
anything dynamic. So it'll work great for them. But yeah, we
have some work to do. And I think the protocol has some work
to do if we're going to be able to support it fully. How was the
limit? Let
Dave Jones: me go
Adam Curry: ahead. No, please. No, please do I have been, I
need to rest my pipes after that jam.
Dave Jones: The so the, I think the first time I heard of red
circle was when we had open the guy out of Nairobi on and he was
talking about told us, right? He's right. Yeah, he's, uh, he
used I don't know if he's still there. But he used red circle at
the time. And he said that he had trouble getting like he he
couldn't afford the hosting somewhere, wherever he was. And
so he moved it to red circle. And he said the trade off with
the free hosting with ads. We know ad programmatic was, was a
good choice for him. And so then we in a menu net taught later, I
guess, it's, it's great to have you the fact it's great. The
fact that you rolled your own, because I feel like there's a
dis there's a disconnect there. When when hosting companies that
have that are using a third party for dynamic ad insertion.
Discuss it, I mean, they I know they understand the technology,
but you can talk about what the issues are from more
authoritatively, I guess,
Mike Kadin: I got the feed and and I'm byte for byte
constructing these mp3 files on the fly. I can definitely tell
you all about it.
Dave Jones: Okay, so So tell me tell me like I guess first of
all, let me just let me just though, something that you real
quick. Sure. Is there a difference in your mind between
some of these terminologies, which is programmatic versus da
i dynamic ad insertion, like a no streaming ad insertion, then
no, that's its own thing. But those two things, do you think
those are equivalent terms?
Mike Kadin: No. Okay. Um, so let me let me let me first of all,
let me say this that, you know, we have a free tier on red
circle that's free and very permissive, doesn't have any
like, Episode limits and stuff like that. that, and you don't
have to use our ads or anything like that either. It's just, uh,
you can only have one podcast, that's the main restriction on
our account set of having multiple podcasts, you can, you
can only have one, if you use the free tier that's like the
main, the main restriction. So it's a good option for people
who like maybe don't want to use anchor or want some of the other
tools that we have that they think are better as an
alternative to anchor. But anyway, going back to sort of
what the difference is. So first of all, like, forget about ads
altogether for a second, the red circle, lets podcasters stitch
together dynamic audio files of any type, right, so I'll give
you a really good example, we have like a podcast on there,
that's a tabletop RPG sort of podcast. So they have all these
characters. It's like scripted stories and stuff. And then at
the very end of every episode, they have like an outro, where
they, you know, suggest you follow them on Patreon or go to
their website or whatever. And they actually have like eight
different versions of that outro recorded by the eight different
characters. And every time you download that podcast, because
we have like random as an option in our dynamic concert insertion
configuration, you get a different outro at random of the
eight, right? So and that's that's every single download
that happens. We're sort of making that decision in the
moment and giving you a stitch together podcast with that with
that outro. And you can extend that and imagine like, yeah,
various parts throughout the episode, whether it's ads,
whether it's your own dynamic configuration, you know, we're
stitching together a custom version of the episode every
time a listener hits play. Does that make sense? Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So that's, that's, that's,
that's. So that's done dynamic audio insertion, maybe?
Mike Kadin: Yeah, I just call it dynamic search. That's just
dynamic insertion, right? And podcasters tons of podcasters.
Use that they don't do anything with ads, or they do that and
they do their own ads host read, and they use our tools to put
them in and out. And they don't have anything, we're not part of
the value chain of that or anything. It's just their own
dynamic audio configuration, right. And then if you want you
can intersperse like red circles, both programmatic
advertising demand, then we do our own, like host read
advertising in an automated way as well. And so like, you can
say, like, run my ad that I'm running for my like mastermind
group, or my, you know, my book that I'm selling, and once that
hits 10,000 impressions, and I don't want to bother my audience
with it anymore. I'm gonna fall back to like, whatever
programmatic ads are out there in the market and red circle
does all that like decisioning and stitching, again, like on
the fly.
Dave Jones: Okay, so the programmatic the programmatic
advertising insertion stuff, then does that come from your
own internal, like, DSP type thing? Or are you are you
calling out to a third party to get to at both? Yeah,
Mike Kadin: we have like the third party stuff, and then we
do our own like host read thing, which is very similar to like a
DSP.
Dave Jones: Okay, so you may be you may be calling out to grab
the ad audio, but you're but you're stitching it in house,
Mike Kadin: correct? Yeah. But but not a lot of people are
doing all those things. Yeah. Okay. All right.
Adam Curry: When we did when we had pod show in 2006 2007. And I
don't think anyone has done this, because he had all the
technologies there, we did something called the golden
ticket. And we gave away five golden tickets at random. And so
what would happen was, that would be a specific spot within
within the show, and five people out of the you know, whatever,
how many 10,000 downloaded the show would here then all sudden,
you've got a golden ticket? That's cool. Has anyone done
anything like that? Because I've always wanted to see that come
back. I thought that was a fun thing that we did, then.
Mike Kadin: I don't think we could support that. Because
unless it was the first five downloads, but But yeah, I would
say the coolest and most creative thing I've seen is a
guy that basically has like, a choose your own adventure story
podcast. Go okay. Yeah. It's not really choose because you don't
actively choose it. But basically every download like
mixes and matches different different versions of the
chapters of this pod and of this story. Well, you say, that
hurts.
Dave Jones: It's like a knife in the gun.
Adam Curry: Oh, it's just like, yeah, exactly. Thank you. Nice.
Me. It's okay. I'll get over it. I'll get over.
Mike Kadin: I come from like the traditional tech industry. And I
remember like a year ago, you guys like totally ripped the
Facebook product manager on the show, like desperately trying to
avoid learnings or some buzzword that you guys are? A little bit
in? It's okay, hopefully I'll make it out. Okay,
Adam Curry: it's okay. Sorry about that. It's like Pavlov's
dog and I can't stop myself.
Dave Jones: So you're so your red circle is in the podcast
Standards Project. Okay, right. Am I've got that right. You're a
member. Okay. So, so you so we have now established your boat,
your bona fides where you can't you are you are in house,
baking, dynamic ad insertion or dynamic audio insertion, and you
are also a member of the podcast Andrews project. Now tell us why
it's all All broken and it won't work.
Adam Curry: And Dave, you asked the question, that's so cool,
man, I appreciate that.
Mike Kadin: This is like one of those. The way I want to frame
this for you guys, it's like, Have you ever had the
experience? You're listening to a podcast? And you're like,
doing the dishes or mowing the lawn or whatever? And you find
yourself kind of like, yelling to nobody about what the people
are saying on the VA? No, no, not how it works.
Dave Jones: Yep, that's what booster for? Yes,
Mike Kadin: I know. I got it. I got a fire fountain backup. But,
but yeah, so so I've been having that experience for the last
little bit. Let me just try to break it down. So you guys get
it right, every single download we do is unique to that specific
listener, right, that that specific time that listener hit
play, we are constructing that audio file dynamically. For each
specific download. I think we just covered that before. If we
had, what we have now is we have a URL in the feed that's shared
across all downloads for, for the transcripts and for for
chapters, right. And because the feed is the same across all
downloads, but the download itself is where we do all this
dynamic stitching on each individual download the fact
that one's kind of at the feed level. And the other is that the
download level is that is the fundamental sort of disconnect.
And that causes this problem. Now we all get a little bit
technical, right? So when you hit play on on a an episode,
right, you're gonna hit that enclosure URL and download the
file. But like most apps, you know, do that in a couple
chunks, right? So we do have to like, like, they'll they'll make
range requests for the first 100 Bytes, the next 1000, and so on,
right? So we do have to like, hold on to something about
streaming, not downloading. Yeah, most of the apps are going
to do progressive downloading, right, they're going to they're
going to, they're going to request it in a bunch of chunks.
That's the way most of the apps do it. And so because of that,
we already have to, like persist and say like, if you if you ask
me for the same episode twice, in like five minutes, I'm going
to make sure that episode comes back with the very same
stitching. Otherwise, if you asked me for the first half, and
the second half, and I put in different ads and stuff,
everything's gonna get messed up and offset, there'll be funky
spots in the middle where we, where we are out of sync. Does
that make sense?
Dave Jones: Yeah, so that's and that's across all download
requests. That's not like so you have you have a understand what
you're saying. This is good. This is good. By the way, to
understand what you're saying. You have a let's just say five
minutes sliding window.
Mike Kadin: Across all the downloads for a specific URL,
no, for specify a specific enclosure URL? No, it's It's
tied specifically to the user who puts the IP address the user
agent that requested it, and it's 24 hours for us. So if you
ask me for a file, I'm going to stick something together for
you. If you ask me for that same file five minutes later from the
same IP and the same user agent, I'm going to give you back the
same the same one, regardless of what byte range of the file
you're asking.
Dave Jones: Okay, so Okay, so if it's a so if it's an IP address
that happens to be net for an office of 5000 people doesn't
matter, you're still getting that same? Yeah,
Mike Kadin: those those will will, you know, that's that's
that we won't treat those as unique downloads, because that's
kind of how the IB decides it. And then also, we'll serve the
same content to all those people.
Adam Curry: All right, now, I have a business question. Sure.
Does this make any money for you? And how and how I mean, so
this is kind of unclear to me. I think some, some hosts, they
just leave it all up to an ad network. And they outsource
that, and they might get a piece of it. If you do that. I mean,
so do you sell the ads? Do you have another network selling for
you? How does that all fit together?
Mike Kadin: Yeah, we have our own in house ad sales team and
the programmatic world. We're connected to a bunch of source
of demand that just sort of comes into us from those
vendors, sales teams. And yeah, you know, we are we are a
profitable business. We've been around for five years we got out
I'll save the numbers for another conversation. But, you
know, millions and millions of dollars we paid out to
podcasters over the years.
Adam Curry: What? Millions and millions. Yeah. Oh, that's
pretty good. And have you seen a decline? As everyone claims that
thing? Well, actually, the pod podcast, industrial complex
press as everything is doubled and tripled will be $15 billion.
By the time my mike my grandchildren are in college.
But have you seen a decline year over year? Seems like in
general, that's what I'm hearing from the advertising market.
Mike Kadin: Yeah, I think the programmatic demand in general
is, is a little weak. And that just kind of flowing with the
overall I think investment in advertising from all the big
codes that are out there putting money into into programmatic.
You know, we've been able to grow, but that's because we're
such a small slice of a Very large pie. I know you don't
believe it's billions and billions but it's it's
definitely a lot bigger than what we're doing. So I'm
Adam Curry: happy for you. I'm gonna believe me. I'm happy. I
want everyone to make money. And speaking of that, for one
moment, please, oh. Only Impala when we get a 444,444. Satoshi
booths, we got to interrupt. Oh, that was Martin's Martin. That's
right from his very own pod friend.
Dave Jones: He's stress testing it, what
Adam Curry: is stress tested? We'll read his a as a long boost
in a moment, we'll read the boosting ground later, just need
to stop and say thank you. And yes, we got it, Martin. Well,
this is very interesting, because I if anything, I thought
the I thought that programmatic was really just not working all
that well. But you're seeing your experiences, it is
certainly at scale. I'm sure how many you can you give us an
indication how many people are using dai on how many feeds are
inserting ads?
Mike Kadin: Yeah, we have a little about 1100 podcasters
that we monetize right now.
Dave Jones: Okay. All right. Yeah. So that then when you when
you say that you live in 100, that you monetize that. So
that's 1100. And then everybody else is on some sort of free
plan is that
Mike Kadin: we have free plans. And then we have like regular
paid plans, just depends on what Oh, you do have paid plans? Oh,
yeah, no,
Adam Curry: they definitely have the paid plans. Yeah. What do
you what do you get extra for the paid plan?
Mike Kadin: Just some better analytics stuff. You can have
multiple podcasts per account. The dynamic stitching, if you're
not using ADS is behind our paywall. So if you want to
stitch in your own ads, you want to get stuff like that, then you
have to pay. But it's a pretty permissive free tier. But you
know, it's sort of the the monetization part is
disconnected from whether you're paying us that's like related to
other features, you can be on the free plan. In fact, our
biggest podcasts are making the most money is on the free plan.
Adam Curry: And and do you reserve the right to put ads
into the free plans?
Mike Kadin: No, we don't, we're never going to put ads unless
we're paying you. Right? That's not the model. Okay. And you
know, right now, and I don't see this changing, we're not going
to like force anybody to monetize this. That doesn't seem
right.
Adam Curry: There was pod news had that pod news database blew
up, which was I'm so happy and not because I'm happy for James.
Well, let me explain. Let me explain. I'm happy because he
when he when he fixed the database, I started getting
emails again. And you know, and for some reason, we weren't sure
if it was my, whatever was happening, my email address was
getting blocked somewhere, whether it was my server
blocking him or something on his end, blocking me, whatever, it
cleared it out. So that's when he did a reboot, it did or
something happened. And I started getting the pod news
again, I'm very happy. So I appreciate that James, and I, of
course, appreciate what you went through. I've had those morning
wake up calls, no doubt. And so the podcast Business News news,
had an interview, which is now also part of the James Cridland
Empire, which is very incendiary. And I want to share
this with you and get your response. This was from Patrick
Hill, CEO and co founder or founder of dystopia. And you can
read the full interview and podcast Business Journal today.
He says, quote, right now, the podcast industry is growing from
a copycat standpoint, instead of from innovation. The industry
doesn't grow from every single company doing the same thing.
Your response?
Mike Kadin: Well, I think what you said before, I want to
preface with and say the same thing, which is that I want
everybody, I'm very happy to see as many people as possible make
money with either their business or their podcasts in the space.
So I'm going to preface with that. But I think there are like
multiple business models that exist from podcast hosting
companies. And you know, there's there's anchors, which doesn't
have one, and it's my favorite. That's just, that's just real,
but they're definitely losing money. But the and then there's
like companies like ours that are focused on monetizing and
making money that way. And then there's a lot more companies
that are primarily focused on you know, software as a service
revenue by charging podcasters tend to $20 a month, right? And
those businesses are all competing for a relatively
static pie. Right? There's, there's not there's not
bajillions of new podcasters showing up anymore. There was
some of that in the beginning of the pandemic, but not so much
anymore. And so yeah, they all have to kind of chase each
other's bells and whistles and compete on price and it's a
tough game, but it's hard to do all that and then also be
innovative, right? Yeah.
Adam Curry: Interesting, because I saw on on red charcoal, like
everyone else, I think does. It's never been easier to take
your business away from the other guy and join us, sir. It
seems like that goes on a lot. I just you know, I hear the tally
on pod news. Like you know, Bo, there's 4000 and I know that
they the 4000 new podcasters this week had to come from
somewhere. So they probably came from another host. Is there a
lot of this switching? And is that mainly on price? Or is it
sometimes features? What what is the main reason people switch
from host to host?
Mike Kadin: I'm probably not the you should ask the Buzzsprout.
Guys that because I feel like they'll probably have a better
picture of it, we tend to focus on, you know, because we focus
on like, making money through through ads and through
payments, you know, we tend to focus on like larger podcasters,
which is a smaller set than then the overall podcast or user
base. So we kind of Yeah, we still there are hobbyists that
have 100 listeners and convinced 20 of them to pay $10 a month,
and that's still a great customer for us, and we'd love
to have them. So I don't know if hobbyists is the right term, but
it's either like they have to have a committed audience or
they like a very committed audience that wants to throw
money at the Creator, which, which like yours, or, or they're
large enough to be interested in advertising. And so our user
base just a little different. And yeah, we do mostly grow by
plucking folks from other hosting companies, but I suspect
a lot of the hosting companies are happy to see them go because
they're the larger podcasts with the larger bandwidth bills, and
they're still paying the same 9099 There's this guy with his
five downloads, this is always
Adam Curry: bugged me about the hosting model is when you get a
successful podcast, it's actually bad for your business.
It's so weird, and, and so now I'm gonna make my pitch to you,
because we'd love to see you do a lot more with value for value.
And just as an example, this show gives 10% to sovereign
feeds for all intents and purposes, our hosting company,
because sovereign feeds creates the feed in essence, now we have
our own our own actual storage. So you know, that doesn't hurt
Steven B. But, you know, on this on this episode alone, yeah, we
have dedicated listeners, but it's not very big. But we have a
community. And you would have made more from this show from
this one episode than you would from us as a paying $20 A month
customer. Sure,
Mike Kadin: right. Yeah, I mean, I am super interested in it.
When you guys were originally kind of forming it, I went a
little bit nuts. And I spun up my own server, and I had my own
lightning node going, I think that's all between.
Adam Curry: Now that's dead.
Mike Kadin: I stopped paying attention to it, and it died.
Like a certificate expired. And I think I lost a couple 100
bucks somewhere on that machine.
Dave Jones: It's like a chia pet. If you don't, you're gonna
come back and it's gonna be yellow. Yes.
Mike Kadin: That's exactly what happened. I hope it was, I think
it was just a couple 100 bucks, but maybe I can still recover it
anyway, I think it's really interesting. And I mean, that
authentically, I've put my own time into understanding the
technology and a pretty deep level. And I think it's awesome.
And I think like, like many things, I have a relatively
small group of engineers, we have to be really choosy about
the things we pick. And, you know, I, I haven't seen, I can't
be the first movers, just given the size of my business and how
much we have to focus on the things that currently make us
money. But I can totally see us, you know, doing more than just
like making it possible to paste in a lightning address. But, you
know, also helping podcasters sort of, you know, the original
idea I had was to just let me set up a node with my own custom
keys and just, you know, collect it for podcasters and pay them
out the way I'd pay them out for ads. Right. And if I did that, I
could turn it on for 1000 podcasts, you know, with with
one button or something like that I think could be in our
future is a question of like, how much how much, you know, how
much can can red circle make for the amount of engineering
investment and like I said, we're quite different from the
others, we don't necessarily have to compete as much on who
has the most bells and whistles as some of the other guys. But
like, at some point in the future, we will do it. It's just
a question of when and I think that's just about sort of, we
want to be an early enough so that we get to be a part of
growing it. But also not too early, where, you know, we have
to invest, you know, months of engineering time and don't
expect to see much dollars. On the other side.
Adam Curry: I got an email from Erica corn, bla, corn, blah,
corn, blah, car and do you h kornblum which of course was and
by the way, I'm one of those guys who loves having his email
address in the feed because I'd get all these interesting emails
with you. And so I want to read this and then we'll laugh about
it and then I'll ask you about this. Hi there. Couldn't even
couldn't even plug in my first name. My name is Erica, I work
on a team at YouTube that helps podcast launch and grow on our
platform. I would love to partner with you and your team
on building out your YouTube presence. We recently launched
some really incredible new podcast features on the
platform. Can we chat next week to further discuss good English?
Let me know let me know some days and times that would work
best hope to speak soon. Cheers, Erica. She from
Dave Jones: Butte the terminology incredible new
features. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Well, so first of all, they're obviously trying to
I don't know I don't even know what they're trying to do
because they don't create RSS feeds. Just your general take
being in the industry on YouTube. Entering the space as
they have
Mike Kadin: i You think that since they're not RSS feeds,
it's not that interesting. I think they could figure out how
to make it more interesting in the future. Well, I mean, I
mainly see this as like, they see Spotify, messing around with
video. And they are just trying to be as directly competitive as
possible. And I think that's like, that's the main
motivation.
Adam Curry: It's also I thought, pathetic. I mean, there's, if
they don't, my answer to her was until you actually ingest RSS
feeds. There's no reason for me to call you. Yeah, which
snorting even
Mike Kadin: if they do ingest RSS feeds, but then they don't
have what we call like, passthru, where like the word
Spotify calls password where like, the download request
actually gets back to your hosting provider. Oh, yeah, for
sure. For sure. If that doesn't happen, then then it's not
really podcasting, in my view.
Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank you. Let's,
Dave Jones: let's get back to the to dynamic ad insertion,
because we want to make sure we're a bunch of squirrels and
we just run off the all over the place this Okay, so dynamic ad
insertion. What what is the main, you began to describe the,
the disconnect there, where you are going to say why it's so
challenging to keep the transcript and the chapters in
sync with the dynamic with the stitch together audio?
Mike Kadin: Yeah. So I think, going back to what you said
before, right, each individual download where the listener hits
play is unique to that specific listener at that time, right for
that episode, right. And that is unique to them. But the
transcript URL and the chapter URL is at the feed level right?
Now, like I said, before, we do like store or cache, a
configuration that says like, we serve this IP address and user
agent, this audio file at this time, so that if they come back
five minutes later and download the second half of it,
everything remains in sync, right? So we do have some
concept, it's temporary and time of like, you know, if you asked
me like, What did i What did I stitch together? In this episode
from this IP address five minutes ago? I can answer that
question. Right. So theoretically, right, then,
like, if you asked me for a transcript, I can use that same
configuration and stitch the transcript together, right? Same
thing for the chapters, right. So I think the only thing that's
missing with our current setup is just kind of like a
specification that details how those URLs for the transcript
and the chapters should be requested. They have to be from
the client, they have to be close within time for when the
download was requested. And they have to be, you know, from the
same IP address, same user agent, everything else is same.
So we can identify that and say, Alright, that's the same thing
that just downloaded this podcast five minutes ago, now I
can give you the transcript. If they download the transcript on
the server side, that's not going to work. It's going to
come from the server's IP, if they download the transcripts,
like when the RSS feed updates, but then the listener downloads
the podcast two days later, those are going to be out of
sync, right. So like, either that's one option is to just
kind of specify what the client's behavior should be with
respect to downloading those things. Right? That's one
option. I don't like it as much, but that's an easier option.
Dave Jones: Okay. And Nathan geth, Nathan, Catherine has
boosted in a question. So I'll let you finish your train of
thought.
Mike Kadin: Yeah. So that's, that's like, you know, one
option, right. And then the other option, which I think some
folks have proposed on Macedon, Twitter and stuff is, is to put
the URL to that unique version of the episodes transcript and
that unique version of the episodes, version of the
chapters in headers that come back with the download, right?
So you can say, give me that mp3, we give you back the mp3
content, but in the headers is a link, here's where you can get
the transcript for this, here's where you can get the chapter
file for this, that would tie it specific to that specific
download, and make it a lot easier to keep everything in
sync. So that's the gist. It's like a disconnect between per
download stitching, but per feed URLs for the other things.
Dave Jones: Okay. All right. I got I got I got it now. So So
here, so let's talk about a spec, then let's Let's hammer
this hammer this out for a second. So there, Nathan's
Nathan's thing, and I've got another idea here. So Nathan,
Nathan said, why Kelsey would just love the discussion around
da triggers, if apps were supporting Uli days, then hosts
could provide the same audio and transcripts to match. So yeah,
that is that that goes back to sort of like your client. Client
level specification. Yeah,
Mike Kadin: that's okay. If I think that solution is good. The
idea behind the URL ad is like, I'm uniquely identifying like
this, this app for this download, right? And that way I
can distract it over users.
Dave Jones: Yeah, each user so every, just to rehash it, every
user down every download, generates a unique URL ID,
right. And if the app ever downloads that same enclosure,
again, it won't use the same URL ID otherwise it always generates
a new one.
Mike Kadin: if that would work, that would work. Yeah, it also
is one solution. I think that header one is better. But I
think that can totally work that basically, we need some way to
know that the person who downloaded this thing is coming
back, right for either to download the episode again, or
to download the files that have this metadata.
Dave Jones: So a Uli D solution, would that cause you to have to
save state
Mike Kadin: that we saved the state anyway, I think we would
just have to save the URL ID and build an index off it too. I
think that'd be okay. We'd have to make sure that like, you
know, I think that'd be okay.
Dave Jones: Because Because the other option here is in is, if
there was some sort of, if there was a way to describe the
breakpoints, and the length, the Start Times and the durations
within some sort of like string or something. Then when the when
the enclosure is delivered, you deliver a header that says,
here's where the breakpoints were. Like, you're you're you're
you're delivering with the enclosure, also an extra header
that says, here's a list of all the breakpoints and how long
they lasted. And that way, then whenever you download any
transcript, it's going to if the if the client saves that, save
the saves the breakpoints in there, when it goes back later,
it doesn't you can just get the transcript ID and then it can
look up and say okay, when I downloaded this thing, it had a
breakpoint starting it at you know, at second this x y&z and
they lasted this long.
Mike Kadin: My only thing with that is that I don't always know
how long the breaks are going to be in advance
Dave Jones: that you stitch the mp3 together, so you wouldn't
know. Right?
Mike Kadin: I know at the time when I give it to you. But But I
guess what I'm saying is across downloads, I don't know. Right?
So where are you suggesting I put that, that brake
information.
Dave Jones: So that would be like when the client, let's just
say that it's cast ematic When cast ematic requests the
download, yep, to download the enclosure, you return it, you
stitch the mp3 together and then return a header with the with
the with, with the breakpoints in it.
Mike Kadin: I mean, that can also work. But I think if we're
going to do the headers, we might as well just give you a
URL where you can go fetch the transcripts specifically for it.
You know, I will say as the ad guy that like a lot of AD,
people will not be pumped to tell the client where the breaks
are gonna be mixed feelings about that from add people that
might help you skip them. Which, you know, there are pros and
cons to obviously a lot of pros for the listener. But But yeah,
you know, that's what you're saying would would work as well.
I think it's easier to just let us stitch the transcript of the
chapter is for you, based on on what we know about that
download? Right?
Dave Jones: Okay, so that that would be that would be a Uli D
type solution and or what you said like the head, the header?
I mean, the way in true 2.0 fashion, I mean, the way this
probably would work is you just you do you'd start doing the
thing that makes the most sense. And then we'll, we'll just all
look at it and say and, you know, hash it out. Play it. If
you say if you think you have a good solution, start delivering
that solution, if it's not too much trouble, and then we'll all
start playing with it. It is trouble,
Mike Kadin: but I think but I think I think I'm interested in
it. And I think that the the like header based solution is
one that like, as I heard from a few other folks that do dynamic
insertion recently, they seem to think that was like best. So
yeah, I would love to mess around with it. Right now. We
let you upload a transcript, but we don't like parse it and mess
around with it. So we'd have some serious work to do. But I'm
definitely interested in doing because I think transcripts are
a big important new thing for podcasts that have right and a
good example of where you guys are doing the innovation while
other guys are not right.
Adam Curry: Can I ask a question about the advertising and really
only because I see that Dave bought brought clips today.
Dave Jones: To me Oh, I MTN
Adam Curry: Yeah, because there's been a lot of talk
about, you know, what is brand safe, although I've heard this
all my life, what is brand appropriate, and then we have
the new news guard. Have you dealt with these folks?
Mike Kadin: I have not. Okay.
Adam Curry: Dave, that's your cue, I bet.
Dave Jones: Well, I'm trying I'm trying to look at my sheet here.
Well, the I did a little bit of research. I didn't get too deep
into it because I figured out really quickly that it was
boring. ring. So just kind of kind of moved
Adam Curry: your ISO shitposting There you go.
Dave Jones: But this here, I thought this was an interesting
interview. This is an interview with this C co CEO of newsguard.
In the AdExchanger podcast, which was evidently just
recently, but he it was pretty good interview. And I mean, you
know, I'll, I'll told you learned a lot. But I thought
this this was sort of an interesting his concept here. I
don't, I don't have a problem with the overall concept I
really don't as described. It doesn't bother me that they've
they veer, they have veered off into the intelligence stuff,
which does bother me. That's, that's, that's not great. So but
they've their their whole idea of giving like a nutrition that
was like, whatever I mean, ultimately, this thing is going
to that I think this is a company that's not going to be
around for you know, forever, because everything's gone one
day, and they even talk about it in this interview, this tick
tock tick tock is gonna eat everybody's lunch anyway, that
on that side of things, and so the, but he did talk about, and
I wanted to get your take on this. He talks about never
wanting to advertise on disinfo sites. That's clip one.
Unknown: We've been on several conversations with CEOs, you
know, where we say, You sure you don't didn't know this, but your
ads are appearing on Russian disinformation sites. The CEO
literally turns to the CMO and says, to look at all the
websites where our ads appear. And the CMO, of course,
responds, well, you know, in the old days, of course we did. But
there's this thing called programmatic advertising. And
you know, we don't really but our verification company told us
that they protect us from the really bad stuff. But the only
way to be protected from the really bad stuff, is to know
what the really bad stuff is. And the verification companies
use AI, primarily around keywords. We can talk about this
later, perhaps we're writing at the domain level. Do you ever
want to have an ad on our T or Sputnik, the Russian
disinformation sites? Do you ever want to have an ad on
Infowars? Even if it's about the weather? Of course, you don't.
You don't want to be in the position of supporting those
sites through advertising. We did this report with comScore
where we found there's $2.6 billion a year unintentionally
being spent through programmatic advertising, on misinformation
websites,
Adam Curry: I gotta get me a slice of that.
Dave Jones: The funniest part of that thing to me was
unintentionally, yes, yes. You're sure. Okay. But then, but
he nailed it. He brings it home. And then I want to make a point.
Oh, in about he's talking about Warren Buffett. In clip two,
Adam Curry: oh, I'm sorry. I got 15 things going on.
Unknown: We reported one year, for example, that the largest
advertiser on Sputnik News, one of the Russian disinformation
sites was Warren Buffett. Because GEICO that year happened
to be its biggest advertiser. And of course, Warren Buffett
doesn't wake up any morning thinking to himself what can I
do to support Russian disinformation?
Oh goodness.
Dave Jones: Here's, here's the this this is all such bullcrap.
Because of course there when you when you're an advertiser, you
What do you want more than anything is to sell is to is to
advertise in a place where you can sell your where your
products will increase in sales and peep even people who read RT
they also have cars in the car insurance. So the idea that that
oh, you never eat you would never want to want to advertise
your stuff on RT or Nick he's
Adam Curry: not baloney he's not he's not he's not being he's
being disingenuous. The reason why he doesn't want that is
because of the pressure groups who are out there and we'll go
and look at RT and say, Ah, your ads on there you're horrible
you're supporting Russian disinformation that's what they
want to avoid this year. That's the problem.
Dave Jones: Sure, but that's so so the so the real the real
issue there is not that you don't want to you want to but
you just don't want anybody to find out about it in that way
Adam Curry: yeah, there you go. That's right.
Dave Jones: Because there's that's a whole there's a lot of
people that they read that what would be classified as
disinformation sighs that needle that need car insurance and
would love to sell to those people because their money
spends just like everybody else's does. That's where That's
where tick tock is is is killer in that regard. Because
everybody's newsfeed is so personalized. Yep, those
advertisers You don't even you wouldn't even know that they
were advertising on in certain sections in certain
demographics. It's almost like a completely like curated,
privatized feed. And the ads don't even like you don't need
what
Adam Curry: are you? Are you a Chinese spy? Dave Jones? What
are you pro China? What's wrong with you, man? What do you do?
Would you have balloons in your garage?
Dave Jones: This is the listen to clip, clip three. This is a
what I thought was a nice little nugget here.
Unknown: I realized that if you called somebody and said that
you were representing a news organization, they would very
often almost always answer whatever question you had.
Dave Jones: Thought that was pretty easy. Like, if you if you
call them up and say, Hey, hon Dave, I'm from Homeland
Security, they're probably not going to answer your questions.
But if you're if you're a journalist, they will answer
your questions. That's a nice little nugget. Yep.
Mike Kadin: Journalists love to talk about each other.
Adam Curry: Right? And themselves and themselves.
Dave Jones: But that, but here's, here's where it here's,
here's sort of where the rubber meets the road, PLAY CLIP floor
clip for about programmatic.
Unknown: He came to me one day, and he said, Gordon, how would
you like to get all of Jaguar? Right? It's
Adam Curry: kind of sounds like Alec Baldwin is crazy. I mean,
he's so
Dave Jones: hard to clip.
Unknown: He came to me one day, and he said, Gordon, how would
you like to get all of Jaguars digital advertising this year in
the US? And I said, that'd be great. How much of Jaguars
advertising have we gotten in the past year? And he said,
about 20%. And I said, I'd love to get 100%. And I let a little
pause, go? And I said, Mike, what's, what's the downside of
what sounds great? And he said, Well, there's this new
technology, it's going to drop some cookies on Wall Street
Journal readers, and we'll get all the Jaguar advertising this
year, put these cookies might allow them to find Wall Street
Journal, readers somewhere else next year. And you know, Wall
Street Journal readers account for a large percentage of Jaguar
purchases in the so I said, Oh, in other words, they might stop
advertising and the journal next year and advertise someplace
else, like, you know, back then it was sites like auto buy, tell
and know the versions of Kharbanda from that time period.
Mike said, Yeah, that could happen. And I said, Well, that
sounds terrible. And Mike pointed out that if we didn't do
it, you know, somebody else would do it. And I said, Yes,
that's That's right. So we enjoyed 100% of Jaguars
advertising in the US digital advertising in the US at a CPM
that the Wall Street Journal felt like we deserved. And
beginning the next year, we did not have 100%. And what we did
have the CPMs were not the same. And programmatic has been a
great solution for advertisers. It's driven pricing down, it's
made advertising, so efficient. But like so many things. It's
not been good for publishers, and the news industry is
suffering from many revenue ills. That's certainly one of
them.
Adam Curry: Hmm.
Dave Jones: So this is my question that I've brought up
recently is, with everybody piling into dynamic ad insertion
is specifically programmatic advertising. Yep. That has to
drive CPMs down across the board. Right.
Mike Kadin: Well, programmatic? Yes, I agree. Those are usually
lower CPMs
Dave Jones: mean that okay, but I'm being very specific here.
You know, they are generally lower already. But what I'm
saying is, for every, let's say, for every 100 podcasts that
enable programmatic advertising, yep. That you now have a larger
available ad ad space. Yep. So that would buy me to just supply
and demand is going to drive rates down because you have a
larger set to sell against agree. Yep. So ultimately, this
feels like a ray. The programmatic programmatic
advertising just seems like a race to the bottom now.
Mike Kadin: I mean, one way to think about it is race to the
bottom. And another way to think about it is like the value is
the market is going to determine the value, right? It's like the
if this is what publishers are willing to take for this, then
that's what an advertiser should I don't know, I used to work at
Uber. We did. You know, I understand surge pricing and
things like that. And like that's the way things things
should work. Oh, yeah. So
Adam Curry: I have a question about that. Sure. When you were
Uber, and you can be dodgy if you want, but I'm sure I'm
pretty sure that Uber knew who I was and priced me more expensive
than someone else for the same ride from the same location.
True or False?
Mike Kadin: As far as I know, false when I worked there, you
know, six years. All right. All right. Dave, your point is a
good one like programmatic and doesn't really take advantage of
all the good things that podcasts have, right? You have
this like listener base that comes and listens to your
audience every week, you have this really close relationship.
And then you play some like Sunday, Sunday, Sunday, you
know, advertisement, and you know that as more and more
podcasts turn that on, if they do then, then yeah, like that
value is like is pretty weak. I agree. What red circle does is,
you know, we have credit cards that you can collect payments
from your fans from we have programmatic advertising, and
then we also have host Read, Write some podcasters turn on
any mix of those different things. You know, we're not
like, oh, programmatic is the future, just like we're not
like, payments or the future? We're just trying to give
podcasters all the tools they want to use?
Dave Jones: Yeah, the Yeah, right. So the see this here,
here's a good example. There's ad exchanges. So this, that
interview took place on the AdExchanger podcast as
AdExchanger clear clearly a market industry ad industry.
Products like,
Mike Kadin: yeah, so it's a it's a it's a journalistic. Right.
Dave Jones: Yes, then. So you would think that this ad focused
industry product would have would be sort of a pinnacle of
creative when it comes to the ad, like ad, you know, ad
creative content. The Ad Exchange or horrible drop in ad
would prove would say that that is not correct.
Unknown: Speaking of podcasts, and of course, you're on our
podcast, I feel like okay,
Adam Curry: stop. She's killing me already. Who is this woman?
Podcast?
Unknown: podcast, and of course, you're on our podcast. I feel
like so many advancements have happened within podcast
advertising in the past year. What are some of the major
highlights for you?
As we all know, content is what makes podcasts so engaging, and
to podcast ad tech advancements leverage the power of podcast
content. One is predictive audiences would use his podcast
content signals, to better identify audiences in a way that
is scaled and future proofed when it comes to the ever
changing landscape of identity and privacy. Another content
driven advancement is brand safety targeting, which is based
on analyzing podcast transcripts to enable brands to run against
the type of content that matches their brand safety guidelines.
Adam Curry: Man, I've been hearing this forever. Does
anyone actually do that with transcripts? Yeah.
Mike Kadin: There's some vendors that are out there doing that
these days.
Adam Curry: I'd like to give a content signal that the lady was
talking about. Everybody knows that's our content signal.
Mike Kadin: There's not a dad though. What was that?
Dave Jones: That was an ad. That was a that was that was that
were what? Yes. It for ads. Wiz. This, just dropped that right
in. Yeah, it was sort of a fake interview segment, infomercial,
or others you said it was like, you know, oh, yes, this is this
is great. And number two, I'm like, well, there was no number
one, pre written ad creative. And this is horrible.
Adam Curry: And we got to talk about something else. Now I'm
going to shoot myself.
Dave Jones: In the butt. My point for playing that was that
this is from this is from the ad industry itself. Horrible. Yeah.
Yeah. But anyway, the DA, the the Dai thing, I think, I mean,
I think we can solve it. But really, it does have to be
though. It does have to be that people have to stop being so
insane to some degree. So so afraid of people skipping the
ads?
Mike Kadin: Yeah, I'm not worried about that. The reason I
brought that up before is I think other people will be what
I just kind of, like, bring it back for a moment. You know,
first of all, dynamic insertion doesn't have to be ads. And we
have lots of examples where that's the case. And so I think
we should figure out the technical solutions to make this
work regardless. And then more importantly, like we're not like
deep believers in in the future programmatic it's a part of our
business. But, you know, our business is also super focused
on host read is super focused on payments. And I think, you know,
it should be up to the publisher to decide like, what do they
want to do? What do they want to turn these things on or off and,
and let them decide like, what their audience should be
comfortable with and how much or how little they want to charge
and how much money they stand to make for it. And that's kind of
the tool set that we try to provide.
Adam Curry: And I'm going to beg you again to go value for value
because I think it would be so accretive to your business and
you know you clearly have a good head on your shoulders you know
business. There's still time to get in still time to get in on
the ground floor. Particularly with these music things. This is
this is going to burst wide open the first podcast host to offer
pod Hastur has the ability to search a library of songs. And
this is this is the model that Tik Tok use, by the way to
search a library of songs that they can then use in the context
of their podcast, just play the songs, I think will be a big
winner. I
Dave Jones: do allow musical on the platform.
Mike Kadin: We not just like straight up music. Because it's
too hard for us to handle the guy.
Adam Curry: No, I don't think I think that's why wave Lake and
dystopian. These guys are great. That's what they they know how
to do that even if SoundCloud gets their crap together, they
don't have they're very close. They have RSS feeds. That that's
their business. But to write like sovereign feeds, I have the
catalog right there. I searched for it right there. And you
know, I can plug it in that I think that's the kind of stuff
that that will be differentiating for a podcast
hosts, and podcast podcasters who want to add music, I think
though flocked to it.
Mike Kadin: I think it's, I think what you're doing with it
is very smart. You know, and it's a good example of like, you
remember, there was all this, this drama, a couple blog posts
from Spotify, about how like RSS is bringing us down, and we
can't build these protocols that are capable of moving the space
forward. And like one of the things that's only available on
Anchor is being able to put a Spotify music file in the middle
of your podcast, and yeah, we've got all the licensing and stuff
worked out. Right, but like maybe with what you're
describing, you know, again, that all of these things that
they claim are only doable in a closed ecosystem are possible in
I was gonna say open podcasting, but I'll say it. Thank
Adam Curry: you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, speaking of
speaking of that, you were at the infamous dinner in in
Dallas. And the podcast Stan was project has launched I believe
red circle is part of it. You know, it's been like the silence
is deafening. What have you heard on the inside? Is anything
going on? I mean, I know. It's hard. But have you heard of
anything? Any updates?
Mike Kadin: I don't have anything for you. I think I'm
I'm like the not not the leader. And I think right now
everybody's busy. We should like step up and make sure the ball
keeps moving forward. That's really all I can say. Okay, like
right now, it's just everybody did a bunch of stuff to get that
initial pump going. And you know, we shipped, you know, pod
paying and fun. You know, a bunch of new tags ain't
Adam Curry: gonna break. Thank you for that pod ping is super
important, super important. After
Dave Jones: all the aggregator headaches I had this week. It
just reinforced the idea of why potting is so much better than
having to just hammer feeds all day long. It's sucks. I want to
Adam Curry: thank James Cridland for giving us an updated feed
image. He correctly identified that that was wrong.
Dave Jones: No, did you drop it in? Yeah, of course. Of course.
Adam Curry: Also, correction blogger created a chat GPT
plugin for the podcast index. I haven't used it yet. Have you?
Have you messed around with it? Dave? Some people have been
looking at it.
Dave Jones: I don't have a chat GP refused to have a chat GPT
account so I can't play with it. But it because ended this
requires the pro version. Do you have chat? GPT mic?
Mike Kadin: I don't like I can't wear it. But I just played
around with it.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I don't. I don't know anybody that pays for
it. Well, I'm gonna I guess I'm gonna have to do that. But I've
seen some other people this this, like all kinds of the
reason why is there's so much so much data that we have, it's so
beautiful. You could train an AI model on our database alone and
just follow the links. I mean, the transcripts, everything, I
think it will be a wealth of information. And I say this
because I know that we don't have to rely on on Google barf,
and all these other all these other products because people
are doing this at home now. I mean, I got Jay J. Donnelly, who
I've known for gosh, he's been a podcasting. Since the beginning.
He has, what is it? I think it's 507 dot AI, I'm saying this
wrong, probably. He's got his own thing running. And and I was
able to just ask no agenda specific questions. And it was
answering them based upon you know, we have everything in
OPML. So basically, XML data. To me this is there's something
here. I'm not quite sure what but there's something there's
something cool going on with all this. Yeah, I
Mike Kadin: mean, transcripts has a lot of value. I think just
for kind of like providing folks with the text as they're
listening and the accessibility aspects and stuff but like once
it gets broad adoption, and we have huge this huge corpus of
just what podcasting altogether represents, like there's just a
lot of value there that people will be able to tap into to
search for the things you want to recommend other podcasts all
this good stuff.
Dave Jones: You know, I'll say this in sort of speaking about
transcripts and their act like their time, time sensitivity
within the within the playback. You know, if you've watched to
broadcast television in any way, I mean, the closed captioning is
often way out of sync. I mean, like, way out of OH,
Adam Curry: REALLY disturbingly, so.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Like, like minutes behind. Yeah. And so
like, we're already better than that. So I don't think, you
know, even if you have a non time adjusted transcript, you're
probably still fairly close to what you mean, like, you're
probably still way better than broadcast television, honestly.
Mike Kadin: Well, you know, perfect is the enemy of good or
whatever the saying is, that's why we shipped it knowing Yeah,
that wasn't sick.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I agree. This, can I got a couple of, I've got
a couple of I've got a couple of requests for the, for the
website. Okay. In, like, so the, the person search in the API is
so killer, that it needs to be more exposed, and I'm what I'm
what I think. But if if somebody would hit this is why I have to
come begging with, you know, holding my hat to people because
I don't understand how to code react. So I don't I can, I can
basically can't even code our own website, I have to depend on
other people to do it for me. So like some way to modify the
search box on the site, maybe with a with a checkbox or some
sort of like prefix where you could say like person, person,
colon or something like that, if you to where you can, instead of
just searching for a podcast in the background, it would hit the
person search API, instead of just the search by Term API. I'm
telling you, I use a started using this person search all the
time, it is so killer, because you you can find studies, not
just person, like basically, it just excludes almost every
English word from as a stop word list. So what you end up with is
a search that searches for things that are not, that are
not like English words. So you have it includes all and I
removed all the common English names out of that set to. So
basically, you have a thing that searches for persons or unusual
words. So when I just got in there, and I just searched for
newsguard, using the person search and boom, it came up with
like every interview about that guy that hit me I had ever been
on a podcast. It's so it's so good that I think it should be
more exposed on the side. And then the other one is this, this
goes back to the aggregator trouble ahead this week. And I
know you're gonna you're gonna like laugh at this. Mike is the
the the idea of peep these people that put their WordPress
sites behind Cloudflare. And so then as I'm trying to aggregate
as the index is trying to grab the feed, it's given me a
JavaScript challenge page. Oh, yeah. So there's a new there's a
new status code, status code HTTP status code 986. So if the
tree if the API returns 986, there really needs to be some
wording or something on the page, to where it says, hey, you
need to turn your Cloudflare off or you need to turn it you need
to put an exception and because we can breach your feed because
we're being blocked, because people people oftentimes will go
to the podcast index website, search for their thing and say,
hey, my much my podcast messed up. Why don't you have my latest
episodes? It would be nice if it just went ahead and told them
why because, hey, it's not us as you like,
Mike Kadin: basically, like, I've never heard that before.
That's crazy. So like that must be doing that to like, clients
and stuff, too. Is it something specific about you, and you're
scanning a lot of things or
Dave Jones: now? No, I've seen Marco. I've seen Marco complain
about it, too. He tweeted about it a while, like, if you if you
hit it sufficiently enough times, it just it challenges you
and you won't let you they won't let you go any further. In the
book, you become like, blacklisted or something.
Mike Kadin: Yeah, I mean my opinion about that it's going to
be controversial around these parts, which is that like I
think most people shouldn't be hosting their own RSS feeds.
But, but I'm happy to debate that if you want for things like
that, right? We got a lot of folks who are hosting their own
WordPress their own WordPress RSS feeds that are in dire
trouble for a lot of reasons either they can't handle the
load or they don't understand they have four different feeds
on their site they don't understand it and you can get
yourself in a situation where if you screw up and lose all your
audience you know
Dave Jones: my I don't disagree at all I mean if you if you're
if you with what you're saying is most quote most people know I
agree with that. I guarantee you most people shouldn't be hosting
a lot of their own stuff.
Adam Curry: My favorite is just the animosity and the rudeness
that people come to app developers and podcasts index
demanding, demanding why this is not working. And your platform
is no good. And what is wrong? I can't the play button doesn't
work. Wow. Holy moly people.
Mike Kadin: A small tech company, I've done my fair share
of frontline support for many years. And it's, I always have a
lot of respect for for support reps now that I'm on the other
end of it,
Adam Curry: indeed. And I even had to shoot an email back.
Someone copied me on a very angry emailed to pod verse. And
I'm like, Hey, calm down, simmer down down a summer. And let me
tell you what's going on here. was really rude. People give you
so rude. So we thank a few people. Dave, since we're about
a buck 26 Here. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, look, that's because we
got so many, so many booths coming in. It's really it's been
a good day. I'll tell you. Let me let me just run through what
we have here. So far. We have Scott with 75,000 SATs, native
ads work. First line, cold podcast. That's all about. And
now listen, listen to this. We've got Mike Newman with
333 330 333 stats, live test booths from fountain beta on
Android.
Dave Jones: Oh, I have the sound pulled up fountain a while ago
and it has a head it did not notify me. But if you pull up
our show in the fountain app, it has a little Live button at the
top of it and I can tap it and listen live.
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Well, I'm very excited about that. 70,776
from blueberry Dave How would I generate generate a GUID for a
live item I've been putting in the episode number every week
and something tells me that's not the correct way to go.
Dave Jones: Do it for the live. I mean, you just you just put it
in a stomach the gua tag you just got to do it. I
Adam Curry: think it means like the GUID for the for the
episode. I mean, you can put anything there as long as you
need go to Google
Mike Kadin: and search for the UU ID generator and you're all
set. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I mean, I've been banned on this
Adam Curry: show. I just use the episode number. That's that's
valid, right?
Dave Jones: What's Yeah, yeah, the enclosure you can use the
enclosure URL like that.
Adam Curry: I think there may be maybe a confusion with the with
the podcast good, which is different. There's Nathan
gathright. We of course, we discussed his his question about
the UL IDs 20 to 22 Short Row ducks. Stephen B public service
announcement. Curio caster has switched to lb wallet and he
SATs left in your legacy wallet after June 15 will be donated to
the podcasting 2.0 Summer pizza party. Well
Unknown: please
Adam Curry: log into curio castle to transfer your legacy
sounds to lb wallet. All right. There's the foreign 44,444 from
Martin here's his note. He says I promised to match dribs baller
boosts let's double it instead so much to fix and improve but
feels awesome for pod friend 2.0 to be out in the open already
got so much great feedback and notice so many bugs desktop
client and apps are coming as soon as humanly possible. Okay
desktop client even Wow
Dave Jones: congratulations. That's launching a new app is
always a huge deal it sure is grasp brother
Adam Curry: yeah we and we've been just waiting and watching
and seeing you be I'll come back into the community we really
love seeing you back I love sushi 10,000 SATs a girl like me
test boost oh that oh, okay, that's from the previous
episode. All right. slipped in here. Very good. Sir Brian of
London 31,948 is real boost. The problem with the live show time
is a clash with Shabbat dinner in Israel. No, that is a
problem. We are very very Jewish insensitive here on the show.
Yes, what is Shabbat? Shabbat is Friday night it's like no
technology the Sabbath? Yeah. Yeah, you got nothing. But I'm
I'm reliably informed from the Durham report that this podcast
is kosher. Appendix it is it's in the Durham report. Eric p p
short road ducks fudge he says got it hard hat and this is all
booths from the song and meet us 101010 Sakala 20 is play. He
indeed informed us to live art is changing. He says that's hot.
Chimp with 55,026. Boosting with scissors. Another one 112 12 106
boosting with scissors. Another short row of ducks from hard hat
and a millennial with 7777 Burr. There we got a whole bunch of
both up there's another Dred Scott 12345 520 is blades only
Impala I'm pretty sure he was sending that during during the
money printing go Burr. I might play that after at the very end
of the show after we say goodbye just play it again just to see
the Alkmaar change again. I want to see that work.
Dave Jones: And that's my ringtone now
Adam Curry: it's a drinking song. Eric p p 22,222. Now
that's what we call a row a duck's Thank you very much. 808
from anonymous lit in the words of weird outlets all about the
Pentiums baby running with scissors. Very much. Then we had
there's the big bear the big super big row of ducks from Dred
Scott that we thanked him for earlier. Where are we loving the
tunes on my cycle home from fountain HQ. That was from Nick
2100 SATs a whole bunch of tests booths from from people. P shin.
Now that's a sorry, wrong one. Oh, and then I hit the
delimiter. So I will let you take over from here, Dave.
Dave Jones: We've got three. We got three weekly papers. We got
a from see Mike $123.45 Wow. Thank you, sir. Yeah, he says
please keep the music going. Or better yet revive the daily
source code with the personal split tracks and bring back
FUBAR Friday, even if it's only a bug a bonus segment of the PC
2.0 boardroom soundtrack to my life with much love sir Mike in
Kansas City
Adam Curry: did did James Cridland did he read did someone
revive the daily source code? Is that now a feed back in the
index that I did? I
Dave Jones: found that really nananana he revived that old
thing with
Adam Curry: Oh no with Dave Weiner. If someone would revive
let me just see daily source code me see if it's still need,
though. There's Adam courage daily source code and it's in
there.
Dave Jones: Is it is it is it legit? Does it work?
Adam Curry: Let me see if probably I wonder if it has
files attached to it. Let's see. Now it doesn't seem like the
files are now the files are all missing.
Dave Jones: I seen there's no telling what that got me He
resurrects things from the dead all the time, because the
Adam Curry: last episode was February 16 2009. Now that
doesn't sound right. Maybe it was I don't know. All right. But
anyway, yeah, I'm ready. I just need one or two more apps that
can switch the blocks and I'm good to go. There it is. That's
my promise and
Dave Jones: formulas. Yep. Tyler Weitzman, $75 no note Thank you
Tyler. appreciate ya. We get Jesse $110 No note thank you
just that's our this are PayPals
Adam Curry: we are so we have so successfully transitioned from
from Fiat to Bitcoin I'm so proud of us.
Dave Jones: Are our Davis 87 700 SAS A says boosting the hot web
hook talk yay Yeah, chaos 99 1200 SATs keep up the work
the Add pressures is turning more towards your vision to add
pressure pressures. I don't know I don't feel add pressure.
Adam Curry: I don't feel any pressure at all. Actually.
Dave Jones: I don't really I'm loose. Way drips god. Wait, when
does this oh, this was this was last week at five o'clock in
Central Time. dribs got tu tu tu tu tu
Adam Curry: tu mandrup Thank you so much.
Dave Jones: A mad log a gigantic duck. He's a boosting for the
Mirga
Adam Curry: here with the Bruce Wayne of podcasting. 2.0
Dave Jones: boosting for the boost boost enjoy the music. Is
this him again? Is him again another 222,200 Just follow
Adam Curry: him again. 20 is only Ambala Thank you man.
Appreciate that so much. Does he have a T shirt? Have we sent him
a t shirt has even asked for a T shirt?
Dave Jones: I don't know if he's even asked for one.
Adam Curry: You better send us your details. We want to send
you a podcast and 2.0 t shirt.
Dave Jones: Yep. Jean bien. Tu tu tu tu tu fountain he says
seeing Satoshis come in it is amazing feeling. It is it is a
great feeling. Auburn Citadel to two booths of 49,000 SATs no
note thank you Auburn Citadel Jean been at 649 again through
Felty says I'm loving hearing more emphasis on doing one thing
and one thing well when it comes to tags keeping keep embracing
the Unix philosophy it's what we're here to do. Yes, Jean been
4096 That's a four kilobit boost through curio Castries at
Android rusty gates, a girl like me enough to set up a curio
caster so they'd get some extra sets, boosting an artist from
the podcasting 2.0 show is just cool. Yes, it is. See, we get
1024 as a one kilobyte boost from Gene base and maybe you all
could add a song at the end of each episode after the normal
outro almost like a poster. Oh, you just
Adam Curry: that's exactly what we're gonna do today. And make
sure you you boost them live. We want to see that then go to the
top of the charts.
Dave Jones: It would be easy to skip for anyone not interested
but also likely get sets for many of us. Mike Newman 33 333
says catchy tune thank you for your courage. We're welcome.
Thank you, Mike. Thank you again. Elissa. He's doubled that
he's just sent two of those. So 66 666 Mere Mortals podcast 22
to 22 through family said this was one of my favorite episodes
yet. Informational. Funny, inspiring, revolutionary,
innovative. I'm just out of adjectives. I love you guys.
Adam Curry: Love you too, man.
Dave Jones: 3000 SATs from SC Ott, native ad free phones and
more.
Adam Curry: Are you still using the lite phone?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yes, my daily driver.
Adam Curry: I'm amazed there's a lot of little pieces of
functionality in there. I wasn't that's not in the brochure. I'm
quite a mammoth closets.
Mike Kadin: I think it's so interesting.
Adam Curry: It's 299 which is not cheap. That's what most
people buy that's too expensive but I mean this the it's really
quite chicks dig it. Let me tell you
Mike Kadin: I'll put 299 down to have my attention back. Yes, it
sounds
Adam Curry: not only do to get your attention back, but I'm
telling you you flip you put this on the on the table in a
restaurant. And chicks go Hey, what's that? Let me see that
thing. That's really cute. What is that is my phone baby.
Dave Jones: This so the key is you're buying a lifestyle. Not a
phone, though. Oh,
Adam Curry: there's the marketing. That isn't native.
Add your lifestyle. Well done. douchey. No, no, no. That's it.
299 That's right. But you know what? I'm buying a lifestyle.
Dave Jones: How much would you pay? Attention? Yes,
Adam Curry: yes, it's good. I'm completely weaned off. I rarely
use the the graphing novice.
Dave Jones: I've gotten most of my problems licked now. So I've
got the two factor authentication thing. I've
solved that by having the key No, no, I have a phone of an old
phone and that I found in a drawer at work with my with my
two factors on it. Sitting next to the computer. And then I've
got my phone here at the house. The iPhone is still the iPhone
still sitting there on my bedside table. I usually never
touch it. Only touch it once. Once a day. For the morning
constitutional with toilet toilet roller
Adam Curry: scroller. What are you going to do?
Dave Jones: Exactly. I just stare at the wall Mike. But then
the so I use have got that for the backup. But otherwise, other
than that, I'm LifeFone 99.9% of the time. Yeah, me too. It's
nice because if I have to walk the dog or something, I'll I'll
grab. I'll grab the light phone if I'm going to be listening to
a podcast that's not value for value and neighbor.
Adam Curry: Same thing. That's exactly what I do if it's not
value for value. I grabbed the light phone Oh, listen to it on
that. Yep, yep, yep, exactly. And I'm happy I'll be able to
use a pod friend. Now again on the desktop about you've been
using curio caster I do use the toilet scroller here at home if
I'm listening on my headphones to something that's value for
value. I gotta keep boosting, but not but I don't. But I don't
answer anything. There's nothing to answer. There's really
nothing to answer.
Dave Jones: And I like the fact that my kids text me they'll
text me like a link to it to a like tick tock video or
something like this, you know, in and I can't actually even
open this I'm just
Adam Curry: Oh no. And then it goes to your email. You can look
at it later. And so it's funny because just a minute ago,
today's our anniversary so I have a dinner plan to the rest
of the anniversary. Thank you. And so Rashard Rashard from
vaudeville. He texted me and he's he's got all the plans
ready. And so I muted my mic. And I because you know, it does
voice to text. And so I'm responding to him. And I stopped
talking and the thing keeps typing, it was literally hearing
through my headphones. And it was it was, it was typing out
all the stuff you guys were saying,
Dave Jones: Mike, this the minute the talk to text on the
light phone uses Rev. And I don't know what sort of black
magic is in this thing, but it is extraordinarily good. It's
really good. Yeah, the hardest part is to free is to stop
saying
Adam Curry: like automation mark, question mark, comma. You
don't have to just does it? Yeah, and
Dave Jones: I'll say sometimes I'll say New paragraph and then
it'll just say it'll type out new paragraph like you have to
stop giving it grammar but other than that, like it is killer.
Yeah, it's just no monthly
Mike Kadin: costs. The phone because that must be pretty
expensive for them. Description.
Adam Curry: I don't know what they're using. Rev you said Dave
What is Rev?
Dave Jones: That was my understand rev rev is like a
like a talk to text transcription service.
Adam Curry: No. Well, there's no there's no there's no cost for
that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't know how they're doing it. No no.
Cole McCormack 25,000 SATs through fountain he says here's
my regular shilling for found on FM because found this fire yay
also in the last month as seen an increase of value for my show
America plus, feeling very blessed shout out to Sir drip
Scott for giving me my first baller boost. gamify everything
go podcasting?
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, podcast.
Dave Jones: 25,000 SATs from fountain through fountain for
Mary Kate Ultra. Very excited for the future of V for V.
Adam Curry: Web. I'm yes, we're obviously pumped.
Dave Jones: Joel Doug, you gave us a special Richard. Thank you
Joe. Let's see 3333 from Chad f no note Chad. Thank you another
3333 from Chad F. A monkey gave us 3333 says boot. No, no, no
boot today. Scott Sikora 10,000 Sassy say great song. Got a
bunch of have no note booths. These look like booths through
fountain from Alwyn from CAST ematic Thank you Alan. Be mozzie
5000 SATs through fountains a streaming and boosting for
music. Yay it's a hit Thank you Alan Allen's dunes bus much
testing Jason from podcast Guru 31 337 through through the
podcasts guru episode yeah yes guru I guess guru beta boost
Adam Curry: beta boost
Dave Jones: so I was Jason said that initially the I don't know
if we talked about this boom podcast Guru is out right now
only boosting the valuable arcs that are in the feed in the
Adam Curry: not from the not from the Shem
Dave Jones: for not from the shear but he said that's coming
so cool, man. We're Cool cool cool. Marks 31 111 through
fountain he says y'all discussed pod stir for like 82 seconds.
I'm good with that. As he says appreciate the honest feedback
on the idea definitely don't want to be a corpse on the
replace RSS trail. But definitely do want to go get an
Austrian podcasting two point I'm making sweet deal say love
more to come.
Adam Curry: It makes so much sense to just create a nasty
podcast client that does boosts just forget the ZAP part. That's
what everyone's hung up on. That's all
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. And also marks I mean, it's not I think
you can integrate nostre in podcasting in a lot of ways that
are not the replays RSS part. Like if you if you just
integrate with RSS as it is, you can still do like, I think you
can still do most of what you're wanting to do. It's just the the
RSS is going to be just honestly impossible to replace. It's just
not going to happen.
Adam Curry: So Honey Badger man, it's just a honey badger. It's
like you can't you can't get rid of it. It's not going to Spotify
Mike Kadin: has put billions into trying and yes,
Adam Curry: thank you. Yes, excellent point. Excellent point
my perfect
Dave Jones: point perfect point and but but but like there's so
much cool stuff that you could do that I would love to see you
do. And like I do want, like I would love to see you do this
stuff. jpg send us. Satchel Richards Thank you JPEG 1776.
Just listening says so excited for fountain going lit. The
musical development is amazing. Thank you for all your work. And
thank you to all of the developers go podcasting. Yeah,
go developers. Bore logs and 20,000 SATs. I can't thank you
enough for all that you're doing strong work, gentlemen. Thank
you Borlaug. Thank you. Chad F 5000. SAS from pod friend
sending a test boost from pod friend to Electric Boogaloo.
That's a movie prep anybody younger than 41? We understand.
Right? And we got the delimiter covestro, blogger 30 30152 found
and he says darling Dave, and admirable Adam, what champions
are you who take upon yourselves cues of universal divine
inspiration to provide the Earth and all its things a clear and
defined pathway to undiluted conversation, an art so ancient
that without it, all of our shared futures would be in dire
peril. Look forward to the episode of our podcast AI dot
cookie, wherein we report upon the union of artificial
intelligence and podcasting for it is never further away than
the current moment. Yosi is being worth behold.
Adam Curry: Thank you. cspn Wolf. Have any monthlies Thank
you before
Dave Jones: we do we guess we get David Norman $25.
Adam Curry: Thank you, David for putting HTTPS into the into
hyper catcher. And I believe that got sir. He got a cert. I
believe that now all works. And now our podcast and 2.0
transcript is showing up in the appropriate places that require
to assert.
Dave Jones: Nice, yeah. Paul Saltzman $22.20 Derek J.
Vickery. $21. Damon, Cassie, Jack $15, Jeremy Gertz $5. And
Trevor and Zeno are $5 in that circle.
Adam Curry: And thank you all very much this has value for
value you you're supporting the podcast, but you're really
supporting the entire project, the index, all of the machines
and of course, liquidity on the node anyone who needs a channel
that includes you Mike, if we need to Rio, we're probably
going to have to reopen the channel if you're still
interested in in reviving your Chia Pet otherwise, I'm glad you
opened up again, lb Wallet. So we'll be able to put you in the
split for today's show. Thank you. If you go to podcast
index.org at the bottom, you see two red donate buttons, one for
your Fiat fund coupons. And we also have a tally coin. And of
course 49 minutes ago, Dred Scott send us 37,188 Satoshis
through the tally coin with a tallyho. message telling Oh rip
just make sure the machinery is running. He's like, Oh, I need
some oil over here. I need some oil over here crooked or
whatever we tested yet. gloup gloup gloup Everything?
Dave Jones: He's like Pingdom.
Adam Curry: Yes. Oh my goodness. So again, we're gonna play the
our anthem or money printer Gober after the after the
closing credits after the end tune and I will be switching the
artwork and the value block if you want to test that with us
one more time. So we can see if we can get get that song to the
top of the wave Lake top 40 Before we even released the
podcast. I was looking at rusty gate. They have Baumann since
since last week, 328,000 Satoshis
Dave Jones: Ooh, nice.
Adam Curry: Joe Martin. Let's see high gravity. Well, he's on
the chart twice. 185,000. But he's, for some reason, it's in
there twice. What's the second one? I'm not sure how that
works.
Dave Jones: There is some kind of thing going on with Wave lake
and then wavelet. Guys, if you're if you're hearing this,
you check your feeds, because some there's two different feed
URLs being used. And it's outputting different ones. One
is like Playa dot wave lake.com. And the other one is just wave
like da
Adam Curry: and that'll screw up their stats. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Michael or Samuel need to like check that and see
what's going on. Because some of it must be wrong. Right. Yeah,
Mike, do you? Do you have anything coming down the pipe as
far as 2.0 tags or support for anything?
Mike Kadin: Not immediately. Some of the stuff that we're
planning to do next is some of the other kind of low hanging
fruit stuff like person and a good, which we don't have, you
know, there's just a couple form fields, things like that. And
then yeah, like I said, you know, I can see us working on
value value at some point in the future, just kind of waiting for
my moment to pull the trigger.
Adam Curry: Excellent. I just saw that rusty Shackleford just
posted a link. There apparently is a daily source code podcast,
GitHub. We're, we're assembling we're reassembling the show on
GitHub. Good. Well, maybe I have all the jingles so maybe I
should I should just I should react to it and looking for a
name anyway. Are you back reactivate that mic man, I want
to thank you very much for hanging out with us. Thank you
for giving us this was fun, giving us all the insights and
the Dai stuff and I think we saw some stuff actually that we can
turn into something we can codify right Dave?
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think what I would like
to do is just try to try to document what we discussed with
maybe try to first crack with a U lid or or the header and then
just read you know, read the spec and then let you have a you
know have a look at it and see what you think. Yeah, sounds
good because we do need a spec okay yeah cuz I agree we do need
a spec so if you if you want to work with me on that a bit
that'd be awesome and I'll pull Nathan into sure
Adam Curry: All right. Thank you very much chat room for being
with us for boosting us remember to stick around live on curio
caster to boost the money printer go birdsong. Dave back
to the chicks man.
Dave Jones: No, back to the mob. This was gonna have
Adam Curry: horrible I'm gonna see if I can take my drug dog
out for a walk. We have a not a good animal day today. Buddy,
thank you very much for being here for the board meeting.
We'll be back next week with another one on Friday. Until
then we'll see you here on podcasting 2.0
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
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