podcasting 2.0 for December 4 2020, this is episode number
14. We've got stats and facts.
No the board meeting
on another Friday looking at what's been going on with
podcasting 2.0 I'm Adam curry in Austin, Texas and that guy you
see over there the Brad Pitt look like it's the guy for
breakfast, Mr. Dave Jones.
Wow.
This is a special is such a very special episode of podcasting.
2.0 I'm really excited to be here.
What makes it so special just because you're here.
You don't remember. This is the this is the 14th with a 14 week
anniversary of
Oh, honey, I forgot our 14 week aversary I'm so sorry.
It's like when you're when your girlfriend or whatever it is.
Yeah, the young love girlfriends like you don't you don't
remember this is the first place we watched the sunset together.
I remember those. But I often Yeah, if I mess up on the on the
month of bursaries. What don't you remember this is this was
our first date that was that day, like down to the day? Yeah.
Like, well, I can't remember how many years ago and I remember I
remember the date. But I don't remember the you know, the exact
day,
I get a little fuzzy when we get when we had to start parsing
time time zones.
Exactly. Was that in Lake Como in Italy? Darling. I'm sorry. I
forgot. I really can't recall the time zones.
For 1414 weeks into this and we're we're cruising we
are. We are in cruising. I am. I am so jacked about a number of
things that are happening right now. And the first he jacked
about what I was jacked about right off the bat is I the
community chapter idea. with, you know, for, for chapters, and
I'm taking the two apps that that are implement or have
implemented chapters that works for me, in this case is hyper
catcher, and pod friend, because it's like an additional
slideshow to the actual podcast. And I found one of our producers
of the no agenda show. Sir, now, Duke Dred Scott, and he raised
his hand and he said, Actually, he I think he because I'd said
on the show, Hey, can you help out with some chapters? Yeah,
just kind of off the cuff type thing. Grab, grab hyper capture,
and I think I tweeted at once or twice, and a couple people
checked it out. Because in hyper capture, you can actually add
chapters while listening to the show, which is such a, it seems
like such a simple concept that you use the same application for
viewing listening as you do for editing and for adding. Sounds
really nice. Yeah. And so that shows up in the back end. Now my
problem is after three and a half hours, you know, I can just
now barely remember after doing the feed and all this crap,
which comes after, you know, post production, and I need to
get my stuff out quick, you know, I can't wait around for a
couple days. You know, I can drag it over to otter.ai to get
the transcript rolling, which have to remember to come back
because it takes a couple hours. But then it's like if I'm gonna
do chapters like now I can't I'm sick of myself. I can't hear
myself and go listen for another three and a half hours. I tried
writing down time codes. No, none of it works. And I just
don't i don't have that capacity. It breaks your rule of
no post. Well, exactly. I yeah, certainly no editing, you know,
anything, just, you know, patching it up and getting it
out. So he had I think he showed up on podcast index dot social.
And he had a question about the hyper chat app and David was
helping him out and then I sent him a DM I said, you know, bro,
do you want to just get you know, get an account so you can
manage the whole thing and then you can add images and go crazy
with it. And he said, Oh yeah, sure. I'd love to do that. So
now what's happened if you look at the last two no agenda
episodes Holy crap, it's filled with images funny stuff, phone
boy is adding his no agenda quotes with time codes, all of
this fantastic. additional content that's being put in and
anybody can contribute. So you know, anyone can still get hyper
capture and I think Martin may be working on this for pod
friend. I think that it somehow it should be some kind of
requirement that you that you are able to this even just a
small bits of feedback. It makes your app very unique.
I'm looking at it right now.
And I thought of another thing and I think he
knows bill Frank for Microsoft being
See, I mean, there you go, you're laughing because it's
funny additional content. I love that when people can contribute
in that way. And I was thinking, since just as an aside, because
you know, the chapters, it's like, Alright, if you're just
listening and you look at the screen, a funny image pops up.
And you could do to time code and the host could even refer to
it, or, you know, you can use it as Oh, I want to, you know, skip
ahead to this segment, you can tap on it. Well, if a if a
podcast app already has the transcript, can't you then also
in the app, should you be able to perform a search on that
transcript, which I would say presumably, is already sucked
in? I don't know if the app does it progressively. Or if they
suck, if it downloads the whole SRT file? I mean, the Can you
then say, I'm searching for this, and then it says, okay,
tears, five time codes, where that comes up. And here's a
sentence and you just tap it into goes to that spot in the,
in the, in the podcast,
that's complicated. And that that's requires database, full
text search. So you would need something like Elastic Search
server, or we Sphinx, there's a few different Full Text Search
server products out there, you know, open source and various
things. But you have to have something like that, because the
transcript is humongous. And if you're talking about, you know,
lots and lots of transcripts, that's going to get big real
fast. Now, I mean, it's sort of the same problem with the person
search, because you end up having to vacuum up all of the
description fields of every of every episode. And I mean, you
see a 50 million 50 million episodes, and potentially and
let's just, you know, some percentage of them have a
transcript and
they can't we just put this on the blockchain. Yeah. Shame.
Come on, fix at all.
It doesn't even matter which blockchain just the blockchain,
the blockchain, just the blockchain, put it on there. You
don't
have to put it on there. You just say you're going to and
then, okay, I think is fixed.
So in my simpletons, so I understand what you're saying.
And I was immediately thinking while you were speaking, is this
something the index could provide? But now I'm like, holy
crap, no, no, this, this could be a huge additional project,
which I think is basically what Apple is now trying to do with
their transcripts. Yeah,
they're making that search. They're doing it from the full
audio, the way they're meant to tell me if I'm wrong, but I
think they are actually doing the speech to text conversion to
get the transcript, and then they're parsing, like they're
indexing that I don't even think you have to have a transcript in
your, in your feed.
Oh, fuck those guys.
Well, but see, but I think it's gonna, but it's gonna be crap
anyway, because, like, if they're using the same if
they're using the same speech to taste technology that Siri uses,
that's not an exciting future.
No, but even hotter, does a pretty crappy job at a lot of
the transcripts, you know, it's all kind of minimal. It's just I
know how easy it is. Here's the quote, here's how I'm equating
it in my head. If I go to, if I go to the show notes for no
agenda show, I have copy pasted the transcript file into that
page in the outline. And you can do an on page search. And it'll
it'll, it'll basically highlight where that hit is. And it's,
it's, of course, it's not regex. It's just a pure JavaScript on
the page search is very, very fucking basic. So it can, you
know, it'll pick up words that are separated by another word,
but that's about it. And then there's the time code. And so I
do that, if I want to find something in a particular
episode, I go to that page, I do a Ctrl F, and I search for the
words, it's just an on page JavaScript search, I see the
time code, then I go to my app, or play or whatever I am. And I
forward to that timecode. And I'm thinking, well, this is
dumb, because this can be this obviously, this can be
automated. And I was just wondering if it's possible in
that rudimentary fashion, so not an overall search across all of
these things, but in one episode, I just want to search
that one SRT file and then be able to click on that one time
code in that one podcast that I'm playing at that moment, if I
switch podcast, it flushes the cache of the SRT
Okay, okay and understand you now because typically as a
typical it the developer whatever you want to call it,
me Yeah, you first you said it's difficult and then you made it
sound like only you could do it and then it was gonna cost me a
lot of money. Yes, that was
exactly Do warp 8.40
Wait, they
can. This is exactly what it is. This is why CEOs fail because
they don't understand this one dynamic.
Never set, you never tell them exactly how long it's gonna
take, you know, it's just gonna cause you always overshoot. And
then when you come in under it your hero,
it's good to have an edible before the show. This is
I think, no, I see what you mean now. So like that. Yeah, yeah.
Cuz then you're just talking about like a straight, you know,
I don't know how many thousands of lines? Right. That's that's
the
thinking. Because what I've noticed, and this is my job is
to notice these things. Is that the the thrill? The I'm going to
use the word I don't use it lightly the awesomeness of
podcasting 2.0. is these interactions you do with the
app? Yes, that's, that's like Boehner time, because we're
double cream. So where this really shines, both in
excitement in a dopamine rush, and in actual value, which we'll
be talking about in actual digital money. boosting is
phenomenal. I mean, yeah, so especially when people also
listening to a podcast, if you haven't done this, if you listen
to the show, for the first time, get seeds you can get on Sphinx
chat, Sphinx dot chat, and then find some of these podcast
tribes. Because you can boost as a as a seal of approval, a
number your discretion, which is part of the fun. I used to have
1337 for leet. And then I saw my wallet dwindling, and I changed
it for a four shot. That
was a great one. Thank you. And it's very identified. Marty,
that tells from over to the no agenda tribe in did 13 Oh, yes,
I
saw that. I saw that. I saw that. And what's crazy, I saw it
come in on the index node, you know, the one percentage? Yeah,
like what is going on here? This is, that was beautiful. It's
beautiful. But it's that stuff. And then that being of some
value for analysis for the podcaster. So in the in the
chapters case, it's Oh, my God, this is, you know, look at all
this cool additional crap that was just created. In the book,
we talked about the transcripts, which gives the listener
something to do like, I'm looking for this. And by the
way, I'm a heavy user of this, because I'm always looking for
what we're talking about, I gotta go find this. And it's a
huge value. For you,
it could be a value for other. Okay, so just think about, yeah,
no, no agendas, unique situation, because you have an
army of producers that most
isn't really, you know, core, is that what podcasting? 2.0 is?
Yes, I think that's Yeah, okay. It's a good point. Because
podcasting 2.0 the whole paradigm could mean what we're
trying to do we talk about it in terms of our you know, value for
value, and in, in flipping that model in and you get, you get
kind of sidetracked into the money part of value for value.
But if, if, if our goal is to revolutionize podcasting, into
podcasting, 2.0 across the board, yep. And that would
encompass like every show, having a small or some various
size army of producers that are related, are able to do those
things.
I speak from some modicum of standing, that every podcast has
listeners who are doing stuff for that show, which I just for,
for simplicity, say they're a producer, whether it's promoting
the show, this is, you know, you should be able to wish in, you
know, in most podcast apps, hey, I can promote this at this time
code. And I can tweet it right away. And, you know, you get in
one case, you get Martin, snazzy little timeline player, which is
just a piece of joy. You know, these are all differentiating
factors of cool features that you can do with this app, that
that helps out. So these people just like Dred Scott, you know,
there's always going to be someone who raises their hand
and says, Yeah, I'll do some chapters. And you know what, he
might burn out? They usually do. And then there's five other
people who will jump in and maybe he'll come back and you
know, that, that I'm not worried about that at all. In fact, I
see it as a necessary part of expanding what we're doing Is
this okay? Other media ecosystem has this.
Well, that's the strength of. It's interesting because that
that is the strength of podcasting. And one of the
differentiators of podcasting from other forms of media is the
direct engagement between the podcast and the podcaster. And
the audience. Like there can there's a level of engagement
there that just doesn't exist in really any other form of media,
you see it a little bit when you get like a little bit of a
popular was it morning Dr. Show, in a certain in a certain
market, and you don't get a tribe of people who are, you
know, like in trying to engage with the show, but there's
really, there's not, there's a limit, you can't do much. I
mean, because it's really audio only. And there's, there's
limited avenues for interaction to come back to the podcast or
from that, excuse me back to the radio host from that tribe.
Well, in this regard, you have it's interact, it's it's
internet native. So it's
built into it, it's built into it. And you know, and the
simplest of simple things like tapping on Periscope and sending
hearts, or, you know, likes or super chats on YouTube, which
involves actual money. These are all interactive features that
have a playback feature as well, which is really cool. And one
thing I know is should be possible, is regardless of of
how the value was flowing, if we're talking about the
lightning, network payments, case and payments, it can be
compiled into something for everyone to use as, like a
timeline. So no matter where it's coming from, I should be
able to tell if someone has boosted of certain segments on
my show, from any random app. And I should be able to say, oh,
someone like this right here. Whether whether an app will will
play that back for me, such as the Sphinx chat, where you can
go back and you can start the podcast and you see exactly
where everyone boasted. I mean, these are very valuable
interactions between the audience and the and the
Creator.
What I would love to say, I don't know if you saw the Mitch
Downey from pod verse had some comments on mastodon and he was
talking about sound bites, when
that's my next that's my next thing. I'm gonna hound people
for to create those sound bite. Yeah,
yeah. And he was talking about, Well, why don't we just pull
the two chapters in sound bites? I saw that I was like, Oh, well,
that's fucking smart. Because you should do it anyway, just by
ending, but in tag right or length
behind just put your just take, just take your your sound bites
out of you know, and he just published your sound bites as a
chapters file. And then it's just like, boom, boom, you know,
you can have as many as you want.
But could you also, could you also publish your chapters file
as a sound bites file?
Those no sound bites file? It's just,
yeah, it's just URLs and time or time codes and duration. Yeah.
Right. So, but I guess what I'm asking is, will it be
interchangeable?
Should be Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if he had if he had, because you
can have as many sound bites as you want. So if you had,
because I would, the reason why I asked because I wouldn't mind
as an option, being able to toggle the image off on a
chapter after X amount of time, or at a certain time code.
Because after a while, it's just you know, if the next chapter
Mark isn't, until 45 minutes later, and I'm still looking at,
you know, at a Gina haspel. Dead or Alive. I mean, that gets a
little annoying, I would maybe could switch back to the default
image after you could set a just as long as you can set an out
time. That's kind of cool.
Yeah, there's an end time in the change bag. Oh, there is well,
then we're done. It's, it's optional. But it makes most of
these systems are gonna be automated. So it should be
fairly quick to put it in there. And then the apps just as
they're consuming, and, you know, they just, they just go
out at that point. I've done something to wake up hyper
capture on my phone when I looked at it earlier, because
it's just, it's sending me note push notifications of bookmarks.
Like, as they're added, I guess,
also just hyper catch. Oh, that's cool. you're logged in.
So it's sending you the notifications that someone did a
chapter.
Yeah, and I got it. I got a push notification that said John's
cream, sex. Evidently the title of one of the bookmarks, and so
of course, I had to click on that. Like there's
Yeah, I'm getting wait. So like you're getting notification
notifications of podcasts. you subscribe to this. No one puts a
chapter marker in. Yeah. Holy fuck. Excuse me. That's
fantastic. I didn't know it did that.
Yeah, I've got like, Oh,
shit. So you get notification from the community. They've
added a bookmark. Evidently. Oh, man. This is what I'm talking
about. All right, we're our work is done here.
Of course. not stopping.
Alright, so good to know because I'm gonna, I'm gonna see how I
was as this soundbite is implemented, right that.
Okay. So is implemented it like, yes, it's implemented and is
being used. I'm looking at the tables on the exact
same JSON.
No, no, no sound standbys, purely an XML tag? There isn't
there's no JSON component to it at all. So it exists, it exists
in the feed. Whereas the Trent transcripts and chapters, but
the tag references an external JSON file.
Okay, ah, okay, so how are those two interchangeable, then? Well,
if you had an if you, you could come? Well, it'd be
interchangeable Not, not within the feed itself. But you can you
do the conversion, you know, you go back and forth in software.
It Like, like, what Mitch is doing is he's putting as he's
pulling in sound bites. And as people are creating sound bites
in pod verse. He outputs them as a chapters file as a JSON file.
Oh, okay. I
get it. I got it. Yeah. So you just
because they're roughly equivalent in their
specifications, even though they're not really intended for
the same purpose, right.
But the time codes all match up if you want to?
Yes, that's right. Yeah. And you and instead of doing a start
cut, start time and a duration, you should just start timing in
in time, which is easy, because you just add the duration to the
start time and there's your income. And
user. Okay, so the conversion. So if I had that in, in the
freedom controller, I could start adding that manually
myself. the click of a button. Okay. Well, I have to talk to my
my roadie, yeah. Don't Don't bother. He's tuning guitars.
Yes.
He's really busy. There's 6785, transcripts and database
currently in there, or just clicking through here and
looking at stats. There's 30,600 chapter files in the database.
Okay. That's a good metric. That's a good metric to look at
over time.
5946 sound bites? Not bad. That's not bad at all. I
really didn't. I see someone had an idea to create a feed or
something out of just the sound bites.
Yeah. That was really cool. I like
that idea. Has anyone did that wind up getting done? Is that Is
there an end point for that?
No, no, there's an input for the soundbite. Yeah, you can, you
can subscribe to the sound bytes endpoint. And it just every time
there's a new one that pops up in the system. Cool. You get it?
Oh, cool. That would be a great virtual virtual feed to
subscribe to subscribe to it. Yeah.
Yeah. You can just leverage how do we do this? Is it done yet?
Yes. Does it work yet? Dave? Over there. Yeah.
I was on. Frederick dormans. podcast.
Yes. I was going to ask you how that went. This is great. Yeah.
Now you're. I just want to say yeah, you're real podcaster. No,
go. Yeah. Oh, yes. Your mo Yeah. And certainly for a dude named
Ben. Man. You talk well.
Well, that is the dead. And you smell less than you straddled
that so good.
No, you really do. You're a natural podcaster. And you look,
you're the guy who has the donation set. You got the clips.
I'm just like, I'm your roadie here. No showing up to the
party.
I saw one. I think I know what I saw. One is I saw
one. Okay.
Thank you. Um, and it's so annoying.
What did you say the beginning?
I keep saying, um, and it's so annoying.
Oh, back up. And it's so annoying.
I'm the king of that. It's just a bridge.
I'm trying. I'm trying to do better. I feel like I did better
on on Frederick's podcast it was.
Tell me about Frederick's podcast. That was great. Well,
it was it was the name of the but it's not called Frederick's
podcast is it and
it is not called fresh cast. In. embarrassingly, I
don't know what the title is. But I can for purposes of this
show, it'll be known as Frederick's podcast
is Frederick's podcast. I have
to put a link in the show notes. So we'll look that up.
What I don't know this time. Got it. Yeah, now I can't be Fred
draping it. Yeah, he's literally looking at Frederick
flippin Frederick.
If only there was a place on the internet, you could go to look
up podcasts.
Let me see. This is sad. Dave Jones.
Okay, all right. I've got it I'm now I'm redeeming myself because
this what we have in the index is a thing called doormen calm
podcasts. That's the title of it.
Really.
But that can't be right because there's no episodes is Borman DJ
o r e. m A in Frederick. I'm saying Bjorkman. Right that. And
I think that's the right pronounce this
one episode from 2013. Yeah, but that can't be right. can't be
right.
Oh, here it is. Okay, I got it. It's called cut snack. That's my
Swedish. Cut. Yeah. Okay.
And how do you spell that?
KOD is in a ck.
cod snack. cod snack. This is Swedish.
Is that hey, is that your cod snack
and English?
Yeah, also the letter? Yes. Okay. Dino Swedish.
I just said that the only thing I know he else could
use a cousin Agnes.
caught that new two. I know two things in Swedish now yellow sky
and cod snack and cousin egg. So you're not on it. This is not on
yet. cod snack.
Now. He said it would drop on 1215
No, no, it's gonna drop a nice Oh, yes. Drop it like is hot.
What is this show about a podcast by developers about
anything interesting to developers. So let me guess.
Yeah, you talks about developing. These are real
developers.
Okay, these are fake. These are not
like the phoneys over podcast indie. Yeah.
These aren't it guys. They pretend to be. These are like
real ones. Oh, whoo. Okay. I was out of my league.
I was gonna say you, you're marrying up now. I see very
nice.
posnick like a punching above my weight.
Yeah, that's it.
But it was a great talk. And it was just me is is me and him.
And we were all over the map. I mean, like, wait, yeah, we
talked about, you know, obviously programming stuff and
index and all that stuff. But we got into COVID. And the
difference between the mind and the brain and Oh, my. Yeah.
Well, we were all over the map. It was great. He's He's really
easy to talk to Craig.
It's nice. So weird.
Well, he's the developer of the Mac chapters app.
Ah, right. Right. Right. Right.
Yeah. And we found each other, reached out to him and got him
involved into into the namespace. And we were able to
merge our chapter formats together and right. I remember
beautiful, happy experience. And it was great. Yes.
And they ever had a fight.
Yeah, not yet. Beautiful. But but that gets that gets me Do we
get we get any more namespace? Well, we get namespace stuff. We
don't talk about a Yes, I know. This is the exciting part of the
show.
Yes, the pace. pays the day. Hello.
Hello, ladies. Welcome to the namespace corner with Adam and
Dave and we're gonna talk dirty namespace to you
to female donors. Oh, over the last 14 weeks. And we know for a
fact it's namespace abroad. No doubt about it. Oh, man lady.
just heard them cancel their subscriptions. Okay. Yes.
Well, yeah, any other nice day like I because I've got the only
thing I've got on mine. Well,
people is still a thing. I mean, this seems like a lingering
thing that hangs out there. And then we get some energy and we
yap about it. And then it kind of goes away. Where's people
because people is in trouble.
If people is in less trouble than location.
Look, is last What can I say?
is off the radar? Nobody can find it. People. I feel good.
Real good about people. I had a phone call. Oh, God, When was
this? Well, we did. We talked with it. Then. From the father
five or farside. Dan Benjamin. Dan Benjamin last week. So it
was actually last week that I had a call from the pot with the
pod chaser guys.
pod chaser.
Yeah, pod chaser. And if you look, if you look at pod chaser,
they have a database. I think I posted it the other day. In the
mastodons. Have a database of appearances. Oh, yeah, shows.
Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay. So this is
an external service and we're trying to integrate with them or
be compatible.
Well, yeah, we're trying to make sure that we're compatible
because I mean, if you think about it, you got IMDb in places
like that.
You're This is this makes sense. This is definitely the I didn't
even realize this is exactly what I did. This is great. Okay,
yeah. Tell me what we're doing.
Yeah. So if you see, honestly search for Adam Curry, there's
Adam Curry that guy, and it lists all the pod fodder.
Let's see if it's any good. pod father. And guess what? fail?
fail? Well, they clearly they suck.
Obviously.
If you look at if you look at Adam Curry there, there's you. I
mean, it shows all your appearances. You see that?
I'm looking at him now. Let's see. Oh, yeah. I appeared on no
agenda buzz cast Joe Rogan two episodes. Very good. New Media
show one episode. I think I've done two.
It's got you been on Adam Carolla.
Yes, long, long time ago.
And on Austin sessions for 2013 possible Yeah.
Yes, no, of course, I know exactly. When that was. I've
been on more since then. But okay. Yeah, the people aren't
using the people, tech people are people.
So this, like, what what this would be is a, what we're going
to recommend in the namespace tag for person is a URL link to
that, right there where so. So if you have a person needs to
Adam Curry, and you also have a URL, this is pod chaser.com,
slash creator slash Adam Curry, blah, blah, blah. Okay. It's a
canonical sort of canonical reference to insist there may be
more than one Adam Curry. This is the differentiator, to say
I'm now I'm talking about this Adam Curry. And then they can
vary. And then you also have the built in verification that
they're doing on their back end, which is sort of their bit, you
know, their whole business is to do this type of stuff, where
they do verification, that people when people say they've
been on a podcast that they actually were on that episode,
okay? And alternatively, what can you link to from the people
tag, you can link to anything you want? It's really just comes
down to a matter of wording.
So if you had, what we're what we're going to recommend is that
people link to the pod chaser.com profile for the user
for the person there in question. And then as fall
backs, you could link to Wikipedia, their blog, you know,
a project, you could link to anything as a fallback, just to
have something. But But if you have the pod chaser Comm.
reference, it would be considered, you know, better,
more authoritative because you have their whole work behind it.
Right. And they're working with good, they're working with
companies to provide this service to ensure Sure.
Interesting, okay, so that's just a people tag, and then
infinite number of names and URLs. Yeah. And spelling and how
is that handled? If it's Adam see curry Adam Clark curry.
As long as your link is cleared to the purchase contract to the
Creator, then you can
report this. I support this 100% actually 99% if pod chaser will
link my profile to pod father, then I'm 100. I don't want to
spike anything. But how cool would that be? I wouldn't pay
for like a like a custom domain name.
So the vanity, your vanity? Yeah.
vanity profile? Hell yeah. Excuse me. Isn't that exactly
the same thing? vanity profile? Well,
maybe it is. Yeah, that's exactly right. pod, pod father
in there. And as long as it links to
Adam Curry your goal? Cool. Very good, sir. And this is nice.
Yes, I
think and there's also an extra piece. There's optional stuff in
there, as well. And I think what we settled on is the name,
clearly, link, whatever that happens to be. And then you're
going to have a role and a type, excuse me a role and a group.
And so the role would be like, guest hosts, you know, co host,
producer blah, blah, blah. And then the group is just very
optional, if that's even a thing can add on if things can be very
optional, but group is as long as
were we satisfying with this group nonsense that you can't
explain.
satisfying the honest potential. No, no, no, no, no, it's not
bad. The potential for people to get very specific with who they
credit on their podcast. Yeah, and I would think there are
probably Probably some people out there, they want to get very
specific I do.
Yeah, I'm one of them. So I'm very interested in wanted, they
want to think so I could say executive producers as a group
and associate executive producers as a group. And could
I also say, end of mixes as a group, and your show mixes?
These the groups listed are the official groups within the pod
cast taxonomy project. And that's what we talked about
once. Yes. Okay. And this is only a White House or something.
It is, yeah. And we're in it's being finalized. Right, now that
I've got a preliminary list. So that's why the group thing is
very optional, because like, the way they listed out as they say,
you know, they give like a group, producers. And then
there's, there's various sub titles within producer and then
they may say, audio engineer, or engineering, and then there's
various ones in there, and blah, blah, blah, blah. So they're
these little groups. If you just leave the group thing out all
together, in that, then it assumes you're talking about
caste, which would give you host ghost blah, blah, blah, almost
all the 19 Yeah, which is what 99% of people are going to use.
But then if you wanted to get more specific, you could put the
group in there, and then say, okay, audio engineer, a lighting
guy that, you know, that kind of stuff.
There's no link to the podcast, taxonomy project.
They have not officially finalized. Okay, list. Yes, I
didn't link to it. Okay. We can roll. We can roll it out without
that since the group. But I think I don't think it's sacred.
I think they'll let us publish it. And I don't, when I talked
to them the other day, they said this is basically just
I have to see it to know if I like it. Is that weird? No, not
at all. I could afford it. I'll send you a code that mean
because I'm just looking at it should be linked to the
namespace docs.
Yes. I just first whatever. Yeah. And get that funny. They
I'm having some back and forth with Ben slinger from pod chaser
and their bins slinger.
Yes. Great name.
Yeah. And meet his brother gun.
Sounds like a DJ. In a soft,
everybody been slinging around the big w h Cz 100. That is a
great, great DJ name. I just tested the ticket for a ride,
etc. etc.
Alright, so I get it this I think this is very clear. Now we
just have to, you know, I think we just need to know the, the
actual roles and groups, I'm sure they've got it down. Yeah,
taxonomy means they took it apart. So they understand. And
then the the last bastard child of locate location.
Yeah, location is completely off the rails. And it, we're, we're
gonna rewrite this thing. It's funny, all the pieces are there,
it's just that trying to get location, the really hard thing
is trying to get the specification of how you want it
documented. You know, and I mean, there's like 10 different
ways you can give a location. Well, and so everybody's got
their everybody's got their preference, and we're gonna
settle on something. I mean, that you know what it does?
Ah,
let me think about this for a second. Because I think what
appears to me the issue at the core, besides How do you
document it, how do you write it down? Is everybody has a
preferred way of location? Hmm. And, you know, so I like the
Maidenhead locator, of course, which is, you know, amateur
radio, satellite type. So I think satellite people use it
too. Okay, because it's footprint, I think. But then we
have GPS, you know, GNS s type stuff. We have zip code country
codes. So there's all these different ways latitude,
longitude, Latin long. It's like, so what we don't really
have is a good example of a use case, I would posit that that
drives that decision.
I think the problem is there's two use cases, they compete with
one another. And they both have total validity, like so. The
first use case would be a podcast player that wants to
show you the location. And for that, for the podcast, what
would be best for the podcast app is if it's just a name, like
Stockholm, you know, or Brussels. That would be the
simplest because I use rip it out of the tag and put it right
into the to the to the user interface. You don't have to do
any API lookups or any of that kind of job. But then you have
this other use case. You're talking about. gaiters and
indexes in directories where they want to assemble a lot,
they want to start to do more complex data where they figure
out who's in a region and help, you know, interest in discovery
and all this kind of jazz. And that's also a valid use case.
But for that flatline, maybe better OpenStreetMap IDs may be
better, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it seems like
there's two perfectly valid use cases. One is simple ones
complex, and you want to be able to support both in a single tag.
So dot dot, dot.
Yeah, I see the issue. But what you didn't really give me is, is
a real use case example. I understand. You know, why? Why
do you want just? What was your example Brussels or whatever?
Why, why do you want that? What is that? What is the point? What
are we using this for?
To find a local podcast for Association? So and here's the
other issue is does the location refer to where the podcast where
the podcast is recorded? Or what is referred to what the podcast
is about? And I think 90% of the time, it's going to be what it's
about. I mean, because nobody cares where the podcast coming
from necessarily. I mean, I'm here in Birmingham, Alabama,
but, I mean, that's not where the podcast has nothing to do
with Birmingham, Alabama. And the podcast is about every
summer melt. So I don't even know what to put in podcasting.
2.0 as far as the location tag, do we put Boston Birmingham?
Let's see, there's this other class of or maybe we don't put a
location tag, there's other
classes. Go ahead. No, please continue.
There's this other class of podcasts where it's very
applicable. I mean, like, it's, it's extremely important, you
know, relevant to the nature of that show as to whether, where,
you know, like a location specification. So, you know, I
don't know, what would you put down? What would you put down
for no agenda?
Get mo nation? That's my location. If you're looking from
podcasts, for podcasts from Gizmo, nation, that's my
location. That's what I would put in the feed. No joke.
Okay, well, okay, that that's, that's great. That's, that's
important information, because that means that that name, that
name tag, is, like it's critical. Like just just a
straight string location. Is is important. And the other stuff
is less so.
Well, all right, let me approach this from an odd podcaster.
standpoint. Go, if I had any, I agree with you that the only
reason for me to put a location into my feed would be for search
purposes of people looking for a particular podcast that either
was from or about a particular place. And in my mind, that can
be fictional or nonfiction. And I would say get mo nation. And I
would expect there to be many other podcasts would be almost
like a tag. But why not say moonbase? alpha is just as
valid. And we do want to build for the future, actually.
So what's the last line of moonbase? alpha?
You can't get that. It's not important. I mean, hey, you ever
hear of Google Maps? bitch? Look it up? That's my point. I think
we fixed it.
Yes. Okay. It's done. All right. Next step.
So again, but it should I think it should be. Yes, I understand
the documentation problem. I totally get it. So maybe
approach it from the reverse and say, This is a code that can be
used in search for a in a geographic search. of podcasts.
It would be more podcast content. Maybe that's maybe
that's your out instead of podcast creation, say, you know,
based upon just like people, I think you have to handle just
like people. You know, just like a person is in this a place is
in this and that can be the place that is made or the place
that it's about. Hmm.
And,
you know, that next level of granularity? I don't know, I
think you have to know the person has to do something
themselves at some point because they have better AI than we can
build. Is this really about Stockholm? Or is it from
Stockholm? Or is it both? But I think I think you approach it
from it's it's a search code. It's something that will be
searched. Prop likely, yeah, a search. And when instead of
here's what you use it for, you know, you get this information
and here's what you get. And then you can do all kinds of
stuff with it. If you know stop calm, you can get the lat long,
you can get the Maidenhead, you can do all that stuff, you can
get the nearest airplane, navigation beacon. Um, you can
do a million things.
At some of the the location tag is suffering from from, from
Tech overthink? Yes, exactly. Which is always going to be the
case. And some of it is is truly kind of tricky to figure out.
But I think I'm falling down on this on the scale. I think I'm
falling on the side of making it more flexible. So he says, Sure.
It's always the right answer to make to make your requirements
very, very small. And to make everything else as optional as
possible.
Right. So that is, that's why you have country locality lat
long and OS mid OSS, mid OpenStreetMap. Id. So I could
choose what I want to put in there. If I can, if I say okay,
just want to put in country. Yeah, then I would use the
country code. Us I guess.
Yeah, that's right. Or gn forget monition
gs sheet. Well, so here we go. You've just no locality, human
readable place name is preferred by the cod podcast publisher, or
display in an app valid values are House of Parliament or North
Michigan. So yeah, so Stockholm would be valid. And I could do I
guess, what is Sweden? s?
Oh, shoot.
se. I think it's se i think it's se thing. Yours. That's
right. Yes. The se. Now you know that this se
things I learned today? Okay, so I could easily TLD Yeah, I could
use the country ISO 3166, one alpha two country code. And I
could use the locality by saying Stockholm and I could forego the
lat long and the awesome ID. Yeah, it's fine. publish it.
Yes. I think that's fake, because there's a recommendation
for having a type. And there are Wait,
wait, wait, wait, this element must contain at minimum a
country code na, when it goes my get mo nation?
Well, I mean, you can have see that that's where the type comes
in. So you get it's always you always have a name. And the name
can be anything but then you can also like, this is where we're
gonna have to rewrite it because the the issue the comments that
we've been getting that we've been plowing into that thing,
that the what you're seeing in the spec doesn't match what the
current thinking in the comments is. So the current thinking in
the comments is you have a type identifier, where you say, okay,
you have a name, and that name could be Stockholm, then you
have a type. And the type specifies what location
information you're going to give it. So this the type is country
code, then you give a country code, and if the type is OSM ID,
then you give an OpenStreetMap, Id type is this other, you know,
lat lon, and you get a latitude longitude. So you can you can
leave all that out and just say, oh, here's a name. Mm hmm. But
you can also put in type equals whatever. And then you're
expected to give to give it what you what you declared in the
time. You got it? That seems fine to me. And, I mean, I think
that's where we're gonna end up as a starting point. And I mean,
I don't see any other way to do it. Honestly.
Yeah. Do you think that Who else has a Who else has a dog in the
hunt?
As is five or six people in the in the comment threads? So yeah,
and they're and none of them are bad suggestions. They really
not. They're, they're all trying to account for various things.
But I guess what I don't want to end up with is just something
that's used pure. I don't want to put a tag in there. It's only
going to be useful for metrics.
Right? Yeah, exactly. I agree. I agree wholeheartedly.
Because who cares if somebody I mean, ultimately, who cares if
there's some database somewhere where a guy is enjoying looking
up? How many podcasts are in a certain region? Because what you
really want to know if it's useful for discoverability?
Let's do it was useful for user happiness.
Yes, yes. Do it. Exactly. Exactly. No,
but But no, I don't care about database nerds. I just want to
know stuff. So anyway, that's my thinking. But we're, we're
getting there.
Yes, yes. Ladies and gentlemen. Oops. I was gonna play some porn
music and say this concludes our our namespace segment. It wasn't
the right porn music
coming into the fancy namespace
I had this way, maybe this was it. This is what I wanted to
play. I'm gonna get ahead, dammit.
Yeah, you mess it up.
Yeah, no, I had that one all queued up. But it was the it was
YouTube, man, those guys are so out of inventory. They got to
put 15 ads in front of Ron Jeremy. There we go. You're
sued by everybody in the course. That is
namespace talk with Adam. Casting 2.0. It's bigger than
ever before. Maybe.
Yeah, it can just jump into shipment. And, yeah, so I mean,
I think we're getting okay to wrap up namespace. I think we're
going I'm going to, I'm looking at like at the end of January
like January 31. To close phase two. But I mean, that's totally
flexible. I just want to get through the holidays.
Yeah, we need extra time. Yeah. Well, I'm excited. And value
will be in there.
As long as there's a lot of discussion going on with value.
Yes, I've seen Brian of London. He's doing a valiant effort to
get hive developers into using the value block for their chain.
Yeah.
And web, the web monetization,
the web. monetization is an interesting one. I let me tell
you about this. Because
I don't get any research on it. Because I did a
little guy sent me an email, someone reached out to me from
the web monetization project, someone who works there. And,
and said, Hey, you know, we've heard your podcast. It felt a
little for me to me. But I could be wrong. It felt a little bit
of No, and the guy's high enough from the I just haven't. I'm
glad we brought this up, because I haven't replied to him yet. So
I said, so he said, I hear Whitney, I heard the podcast I'm
listened to with a link I about your project, but link to
podcast index. org, which to me felt a little form form ish. And
he said, You know, this is this is what we're doing. We're
creating a web monetization standard. And this is the
company I forget the company name coil coil. Thank you. And
you go look at coil and it. What it seems to be is a couple of
one or more Silicon Valley, people who made money, maybe in
PayPal, I'm not sure or they were in
ripple.
There we go. See how good my story is. Thank you ripple. So
that and it may be an offshoot of ripple, I'm not quite sure
how connected those two are. And they have a grant and the grant
is 100 million dollars. And to be honest, my first impression
was Oh, okay, they want to create a standard, the money, I
think the conversion runs through them, or they have some
part of the fee to whatever web monetization is, that wasn't
really clear from the consumer marketing side. And they're, in
essence giving out hundred thousand dollar grants to small
companies who either have websites with content or content
creators, as long as they adopt the standard, which is a
JavaScript meant to send payments, micro payments in real
time to the creators through this through this system. Do I
have that kind of right?
It's what it seems like to me. Yeah.
So the part I don't like, is the grant part.
Yeah. Yeah, it's this. I watched three videos of Stephan Thomas,
I think is his name. He's the CEO of coil. What three videos
of him explaining how interledger works, which is
evidently the backbone of the way the web monetization thing
work. Is
it is it quote, unquote, just another blockchain? Or is it
something else?
It's different. And honestly, I can't. I still don't know. I
still can't grasp entirely what's happening there. I gave
it a valiant effort. And I'm still not real sure. But you
know, the, the thing, the thing that gives me pause about it
like, is that he, he's, he used to be the CTO at ripple. And it
seems very tied to XRP. Mm hmm. And I'm just not like i'm not
i'm not saying I'm not saying it's a scam or anything. I don't
I don't think that that's the case at all, but but I'm not
doing I guess what concerns me is that it seems this web
monetization, quote unquote, standard seems very tied to coil
the company.
Yes, that's what that's what I introduced as well as like, all
the conversion goes through them, and then everybody can use
it. But it Yeah, and I'm sure that I'm sure this is some chain
and ledger that's open that anyone can look at. I'm sure.
It's just adopting a standard. And I've been a part of, well,
one, really, and you know, we're doing some some additional work
on it on a standard now. But if you drive it through incentives
of cash, to me, that's no different than I'll pay you 1500
bucks to take the COVID vaccine, you know, it's like, yeah, now,
it's like, people gotta want this, they gotta want to do it.
And, and see, I mean, I'm sure people see the benefit, but once
you're tied to any organization with a grant, and grant is, you
know, it's not like, Here's your money, enjoy. There's always
stuff tied to it one way or the other. You have a master and,
you know, and with Bitcoin, no Master, certainly, there's no
grants. I mean, I'm sure there's grants, but you know, what I
mean? is like, write grants shouldn't be tied to the, to
what your to the, to the protocol, or whatever it is,
they're they're doing, I mean, just who's driving that? Who
was, uh, who showed up and start talking about you remember?
I think it was been forecast upon, because we
may be way off base. We may. And I and I don't, I'm just giving
you my impression, I think you're doing the same.
Totally. And I'm totally just speaking from first impressions.
And, and I could be completely wrong about all of this. But I'm
having such a difficult time understanding how it worked and
how it exists outside of the outside of coil the company
that, I mean, based on what they said in their presentations. It,
it should, like there should be multiple people involved, other
companies can get involved in it. But I'm not sure. Like, at
some point, you're going, you're going fee, you're doing
conversions here. And so somebody's got to pay fees
somewhere. And the only way I can imagine that this works when
you're going from when you're doing these micro transactions
across a ledger and then doing a conversion back into Fiat is
that these things get batched together in some way. And then
there's a convert, there's a large batch conversion process
that happens, so that you get the fee as low as possible. And
then there's an arbitrage somewhere for the for the
company that's doing it to make a profit. And, like, so. So this
sounds extremely difficult to set up. I mean, and I don't
know, I guess it just strikes me as one of those quote unquote,
standards that they kind of did just kind of always limps along
and never gets beyond one company. Hmm, yeah. Because I
think it's been around for a couple years now. And I'm not
sure that it's like, Okay, well, if coil folds, then the standard
folds, right? I don't know. And let's just write the whole thing
sounds a little strange to me, maybe somebody else can clear it
up? Well, um,
you know, really, with the, since I dove into lightning, and
of course, I've been ramping up to this for a couple of years
with my conversion to to really be, you know, seeing the value
in Bitcoin, just by itself. And as I dig deeper into the
material, I see that Bitcoin still is the mama you know,
it's, it's, it's the Big Mama of the whole kit and caboodle.
Everyone converts out of Bitcoin, essentially, into the
secondary coins. But really, we're just now and I think, and
this is just my view, and you know, if you don't agree, fine,
you don't need to call me out. Because I don't know what I'm
talking. Yes, you do. Yeah. You
must call.
Yeah, call me up. Because I don't know what I'm talking
about. But my view is that we needed this secondary layer,
which I see is lightning. Because lightning is Bitcoin.
And it makes so much sense. So we can, you know, write do all
these faster transactions, real time transactions, write funky
contracts that can be handled at execution layer. You know,
instead of doing it with yet another blockchain with with,
you know, a conversion to XRP I think everyone's trying to
incorrectly I think solve the problem of all well, how are we
going to, you know, get people to understand, you put your
credit card in here and then you've got Bitcoin there. And to
me, I look at this from a different perspective. Now, I
don't need the company to hold my hand You know, with with some
web monetization that looks official, I don't, I don't need
any of that. What I need is a reason for Bitcoin to be fun to
me. So, if I go and get a podcast app, it has a wallet in
there. Okay, well now I understand at least when I'm
doing okay, I need to get some kind of money into this. So I
can send money through this app to podcasters. And I can boost
stuff and do other things. I think podcasting will make
learning Bitcoin fun. For a lot of people give them something to
do instead of changing money and trying to figure out how did I
lose what what feels good to get taken, you know, this is the
stuff that hangs people up,
because that's all you're doing. We're not we underestimate the
excuse me, we overestimate the onboarding problem, I think a
lot of times, because that's where everybody gets hung up.
And Bitcoin is the onboarding problem. But I mean, if you go
back, okay, think about 10 years ago. Did you ever think that
your grandma will be downloading chrome and installing it on a
Windows computer? Oh,
exactly. These things do take time. They do take time. Yeah,
absolutely. I Yeah, of course. Your grandma struggled more with
Web TV. If you remember that. Crap. Oh, yeah. With the remote
control trying to try
to hit letters. That was Microsoft when that Microsoft? I
think
they bought it. They bought them. They bought them. I think
I think Chris Jacob was involved in that deal.
Oh, that is a that's your buddy.
Yeah, yeah, I think okay, sir. Chris, I think he was involved
in that.
Because that was all like their big push was that it has MSN
network. You know, you can get to
see how you can just look towards history and see that
none of this is permanent. And I'm looking at you Spotify.
Yeah, no, no. You want to hear it the Spotify release. They're
like, shows. stash something as my this pot podcast of 2020.
Oh, yeah. Now lists. Of course. I'll have to ask devore act
explain again, how these lists are made in corporate America.
It's hilarious. It's a lunch basically.
If you Okay, so we had a we did a one clip of this show last
week with Dan Benjamin. And if we're out here on the outside,
we're outside of Spotify ecosystem. We can't get to the
you know, we can't listen to the Spotify exclusives. Yeah,
they're all locked behind the silo past a wall. If you want a
taste of what you're missing, of how good the quality of
exclusive shows is. Clip two as a shoe is is a show with Addison
Ray, who is the number two earning tik tok influencer.
Oh my,
I think she's like 1819 years old, something like that.
That's according to yet another list.
Yes, yes.
Yes. By the way, people these lists are crap. You know that,
right? Like these lists are compiled according to interests
involved in the list? People?
conception
Yeah, of course, this list is very Yes. It's the list of
lists. Exactly.
By the way, the tick tock thing is, and like when I should be
more specific, and not just a thing, the TIC Tock culture
amongst top influencers is very weird. Oh, it's gonna it's gonna
get old. Did you? Have you seen this stuff where they have some
sort of like company that rents mansions to top Tick tock, of
course. So that's their set. Man that is? Oh, yeah. So whole
industry. Yeah. But it's all based on one of the basic sins
vanity. Yeah.
So Oh, well, we'll then that play clip too. So let's see
here. What you're what we're all missing. Oh, Mom. Let's
fill everyone in on my 20th birthday. So my 20th birthday.
Big number because 20 is no longer a teenager. My friend
Bryant set up a kind of like a little birthday dinner for me.
You know, it was really sweet. And we went to a restaurant. We
all sat at like, small tables. It was like four people at each
table. Really small event. Probably there was like 12
people there. But there was only four people at each table. Plus
my family. My mom and dad and brothers were there. So it
wasn't really like a lot of people.
This is some exclusive stuff there.
But we all kind of just sat they wrote little notes on like these
cards. I got to read them when I got home. And then we cut the
cake. Oh, I do much besides eat that was it. We weren't like
steaming up and like dancing or anything. It was just like a
restaurant. You know? So we the French Laundry with gaffers.
Yeah, the candles. I blew up my birthday candles. I had so many
cakes on my birthday. The best one was the one Courtney got me
to flower one from flower
I am just realizing we're doing this podcast all wrong. Dave. We
should be talking more like this. So when we talk about the
namespace, you know, it's just namespace, but we didn't have a
you know, we have location issues and issues problematic.
problematic the namespace especially when it comes to
location.
It was so good the heart one
yeah, that was
really tastes like cream cheese icing. Oh, but the entire cake
is cream cheese. Oh, wasn't it? Yeah, it was mushy like it was
like fondant and cream cheese icing mixed together into a mix
with a little bit of cake. So good. It was so pretty. And it
was beautiful. Yeah. And I kind of liked the crunchy outside of
the
day. Yeah, that
was the best cake ever. But the view the view at your birthday
was amazing on that. I was so pretty. Yeah. So my favorite
gift I got was probably either the stage or stop. Really? Yeah,
it was a really good gift actually. Because it was
thoughtful.
It was It
was great. I guess a
nice gift. Yes. Overall, it was a really good birthday. I think
this is one of my best birthdays yet.
Wait a minute. Wait a minute, Dave. Let me just fix myself
here. Feel better now shot myself.
Yeah, so after you go rinse your brain out with soap. That is
okay. So I went through and listened to some shows on there
over the last few weeks. And they're all this way. They're
also boring. They're just boring. Yeah. I can't explain it
any other way. So if you listen to the same thing with Bernie
Brown, we played some of her first shows before before she
went exclusive. So then I went back and I listened to her
exclusive show. And it's boring. And it's something about like,
there must be something psychological about guaranteed
money, losing control of your content script being scripted.
All this stuff that makes your stuff boring.
Yep. Yeah.
What's the message to the way your take your cake tastes?
I mean, this is why I have no issue with what Spotify is
doing. Yeah, keep doing caitli can't do more of it. I go back.
And look, there's a million examples of this. I'm going to
give it one more time the America Online example. It was a
safe, well protected, but you can get a little risque here and
there. Oh, yes. This is a great place to be You've Got Mail,
huh. But then people heard about this thing called the internet.
And out there somewhere is all the dangerous stuff, all the
cool stuff. We want that AOL and AOL but grudgingly said, Well,
okay. But you have to click on these five screens to say I
understand the risk of using a browser. And people use the
browser and they found the porn, and they never came back. And it
will became a dial up company.
If you took their son, so when we get ready for this show you,
you know, we're like, okay, Hey, what's up, blah, blah, blah,
alright, kick it in. And we just start recording and everything
just comes out? Well, I mean, if we were to take this show and
stick it into Spotify, and put a Folgers commercial at the
beginning, and then a mid roll for, you know, Prudential live,
I don't know, I'm just making crap up. I mean, like, and then
you say, Okay, we have this segment, we're gonna talk about
this. In this segment, we're gonna talk about this. It's
like, it just loses any sense of entertainment whatsoever.
Well, it's all subjective. And I'm sure there's a there's a
market for the for these podcasts, otherwise, they
wouldn't be investing in it. But the world is big. And while
we're on that, there's two things. Well, there's three
things we need to do. We thank some people. But also we were
going to give some stat, why don't we thank some people.
First, I want to run through some stats with you, which will
take us into the final wrap up of lightning and value block.
Yeah, sure.
See here. Okay. stack of paper, get some good donations.
I'd like to remind everybody that we operate under the value
for value system with the entire podcast index.org project.
David, no one, none of the three partners including Eric, we
don't take salary. We don't know if it'll ever come to that. But
the index does run on the value that we receive from the people
who have who perceive the value of what we're doing. That is
sometimes developers it's fans of podcasts as podcasters it's
people who understand and like technology and like seeing
things move forward. And all we ask is that you consider how
valuable this is to you. There's no other charge for the use the
index shared, the API is open. We're, we're clearly putting
time and effort and energy into it. So all we ask for in return
is some value. It could be time talent, treasure. Now you see
the developers, what they're putting into it is, of course,
astronomical. But we also have people who just need to support
us financially. And we love thanking them because often a
recurring donation can mean an entire server that runs to
complete the mission of preserving podcasting as a
platform for free speech and retooling it into a platform of
value for everyone,
like the pod pod, calculate the value perception, their
reception for perception. I know I just I just came up with that.
Yes. Yeah.
These are some little things some value perception engineers,
how about today? You go,
we got a first donation is anonymous. $200 aussage. Yeah,
it says no notes and no credit wanted. just happy to
contribute.
Thank you very much anonymous.
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you very much.
very appreciated.
Yeah, absolutely. That was a single donation. 200 bucks is
just, I mean, $200 is, that's a third of our hosting fees for
the month. I mean, that's, that's almost an entire month
right there.
It really is. It's fantastic. It's awesome. Yeah.
I mean, they were out of order here. I'm gonna get there's
another one that was a little bit big. See if I can find Oh,
yeah, here it is. So I'll kind of do these in a little bit
better order. This one is make sure it's not anonymous note is
not. This one is Brian Pollack. And he donated $100 Wow,
thank you, Brian.
Yeah, no, no. Yeah, no, he's got a message says contributing the
value I can to support an important project to help make
sure podcasting evolves in the future as an open medium of
communications. I tm
it him to you my brother. Nice. This is why I need the tag get
mo nation. Because I got I got people who live there.
With this btn That one goes with that one. Okay.
Here it is. I'm not hearing you crumple them up and throw them
on the floor like he usually do. Am I not? I didn't hear it.
No. Crumpler, okay.
folder, your risk cruncher.
Somebody gave us a donation. This is this is a one time pick
paper crinkle sound donation. I really enjoy the sound Keep up
the good work. As a podcast listener, I would benefit from a
list of podcasts that are using 2.0 features and tags so that I
can check them out. Awesome to every podcast that Adam is on at
one point to speed and I refuse to stop. He says r&b dance.
All right, all right.
I'm not. I'm not trying to rush through episodes. It just sounds
more natural to me how he sounded Luke. Okay, so Luke,
where's Luke? Yeah, I'm just out of control. Like
your code, actually.
Hey, that hurts. Okay. Luke gave us $10 Luke Presley. Luke,
here's your
nice paper.
very satisfying. All right. Then.
The next one we got here. Oh, this is $20 donation from Yorn.
And he just have note. I don't see one where now it looks like
it's just a $20 donation. All right. Thank you. Yorn. Shar,
thank you. You're. And then we have there's a good note here
from David Metis. He, he did a $10 month subscription. And he
says, David Adam, hey, this is Metis rounds. No, I'm sorry.
metus rounds. What he says rounds with fetus. Yeah. Got it.
Okay. From this is a mitas from Fun fact, Friday with Lila and
David. Oh, hello. And this is great. He says I heard y'all
lost a $10 a month donor. So I decided we should replace it for
you.
Ah, that's fantastic. In that sweet?
Yeah, in my very long term goals are to be a full time value for
value podcaster vow of poverty. I know. I want to ensure that
there's a place for independent podcasters and the big companies
don't set a lock us all out. Well. Now I got to figure out
how to get all of this code implemented in my feet weekend
project.
Fantastic. And if you were the host, now we have to go to new
podcast. apps.com new podcast apps calm. There's a list there
of apps that support the 2.0 features in you can search for
by function and also the hosting companies who support this and
hosting applications because cost apart I think, is there an
app application?
Yeah. And that was fun fact, Friday looks like the name of
his podcast.
Nice. Get a roll and brother get some SATs.
So here's a I guess this one was out of order. This was a
Christopher Tomkinson gave us $50 single time, one time
donation. Nice. And his message was rock on gas.
back at you, right on. We commit to rocking Yes. For those about
to rock We salute you.
And finally, we get a new automatic, monthly subscription
from Kevin Rola for $5 a month and I could not find a note from
Kevin.
Kevin, I think is a no agenda guy.
I think his name sounds good. Yeah, does.
Thank you, guys, very nice.
And that is it. So those are the donors.
But listen, hold on a second. I'm sorry. Because before it
scrolls off, I'm looking at the no agenda troll room. And I see
people chatting, I use regex to change season and episode stuff
on video files. And it's like, well, it's because iTunes is
messed up and like, well, at least they're working on a
namespace.
Yeah,
just talking about us right in the chat room. And this is
completely unrelated. They're not listening to us.
It's not on the stream. No, no, no, not at all. Not at all.
That's funny. So that was the donations from what we call
this. Fiat donations that
are made. These are all fee donations that come through our
PayPal. Now we do have a lightning widget a podcast
index.org. And you can use that or just click on that big red
Donate button. It's red for a reason, people. And if you're
listening to this show, and you're listening right now,
still the Sphinx chat app, crank up those value sliders, hundred
sets a minute, keep it common, boom. 11 most most.
Okay, so we got lightning stats. We've had almost a full month of
lightning.
Three weeks, or it's almost not quite four weeks, I don't think
have we? Well, the report I ran was for November, and we only
have three weeks in November.
Yeah. It started in the November 11. Mm hmm. So he Okay, that
makes it. Alright, so this for three weeks from the 11th
through the end of the month, what I found interesting, it'll
say, Well, if you just add up the dollar value of all the SATs
from per minute, I didn't include like, boosts or anything
like that. I just thought these were more interesting. per
minute, SATs, they hit the index node that's then as 1%. The
total dollar value of those SATs is $7 and 50 cents.
That's without the boosts without the boost. Yes. And with
the boosts because I think boost is a part of it.
Yeah, I don't have in front of me. for it, I
think it goes up to $11 11.
Okay, double digits. Well,
this is important because this is so just to explain what we're
talking about here. On the Sphinx chat app that have
implemented the value block with the lightning nodes, lightning,
lightning IDs, and the splits, please see the sexy namespace
for more details. It's very sexy namespace of each minute
listened. 1% goes to the Sphynx chat app, which will be our
standard default. For the app that you're listening to
listening to the podcast on 1% goes to the index, and 98% goes
to the podcast. And all of this is voluntary, any podcaster can
change these, these splits and these destinations at will in
their. In their RSS feed, we suggest a portion for the app
and for the index because its value for value. And all the
other stuff you can cut up amongst your buddies, your
friends, your co host, whatever you want. So when 100 satoshis
goes through 1% goes to the app 1% goes to the index. So the
overall value flow in three weeks has been about $1,000 has
been transmitted while enjoying podcasts, either playing them in
real time. Or, or enjoying extra pieces in boosting. Am I saying
that right? Yeah,
I think so. So you could say well, if you're only talking
about per minutes and not boost, then roughly $750 has floated
flow through the system.
That's I mean, and that's what six podcasts. Yeah,
well and Okay, so the more interesting aspect of To me,
then they didn't even the money part was the number of
transactions. Then there was 12,160 minutes of podcast
listening through Sphinx. In three weeks, that translates
into 202 hours of listening,
which is how many days? Gosh, four days?
Not me. 72 hours, three days, so roughly
200 Yes, of course, almost eight 910 days. So holy crap
worth of worth of podcasts time spent listening. Now, that's
what i said i excluded the boost. So that's only per
minute. Split transactions. So that's an accurate count of
there. There was 202 hours of podcasts listens to through
Sphinx chat.
So we're gonna start surfacing this number.
Yeah. On the side.
Yeah. Because that is so sexy $1,000 has been running through
just a handful of podcasts.
Yeah, it's really only a, it's just a few. I mean, like,
there's,
and, and, you know, so, okay, here's my experience with this,
because this is blowing my mind. It's, it's gotten so regular,
that and that, you know, I use Thunder hub for the index
lightning node, and you can see a running, you know, it's kind
of like a feed of when a payment comes in. And it'll tell you
know, how many seconds ago how many minutes ago how many hours
ago, and more often than not, I'll see three payments. And
it's just the 1%, three payments come in, at the same timestamp,
or within the same minute. But it's always one always doesn't
matter. When I watch when I look almost always and then all of a
sudden, the other day, I think two days ago, all payments
stopped around 4pm Central Time, and didn't really start again
until 11. And I got freaked out. I'm like, something, something
cuz i, this is what I do. I analyze trends. And I've kind of
a neural networking capability, like, something's wrong
texted me, you're like what, hey,
something went wrong. Now, we think that a channel got full
and closed. And I do have some evidence of that on my node. So
it might have been an outbound outbound channel that just got
exhausted and wasn't, you know, autopilot didn't do its job for
those who understand. And there was no other route or something
like that. But that's how regular these payments are. So
imagine you have an app, and you just see money coming in, in the
form of satoshis every minute of the day, multiple entries. And
then just imagine what we have to do as a group to magnify that
and multiply it times 1000. Yeah, well, now all of a sudden,
we're all in business. And, again, I'll run through the
numbers. 100 million people in America, listen to one hour of
podcasts a day, we convert 1% of those hundred million people to
donate or pledge and use one of the apps that were that are
lightning enabled. It's a million dollars a day flowing to
the ecosystem gets your slice of it today. And while stocks last.
And I'm very happy to say that I've had ongoing conversations
with Roy scheinfeld from breeze wallet. And those guys are a
heads down and they are they are working on integrating
podcasting into their wallet. I think I think they may even
release it just as a podcast app that happens to have a wallet.
That would be the ultimate I think
we we talked a little bit about that in Frederick show they did
I understand correctly that they have that they're going to do a
release like a skeleton app or the source code for that.
Yeah, they will. Okay, yeah, the integration for it so they've
already the the breeze wallet code is already on GitHub and
available. So that gets they're gonna create rappers and stuff.
And I believe they're all doing it in HTML or maybe even react.
I don't know what the hell they're using. I need
to get back with Paul and Evan overs Thanks and see and we
can't talk to those guys. And well, we need to, but he didn't
hook up and have a meeting with them. And just see where
everything's at. What No, no, no, no, no, no,
no. Dave What
are you talking about? We need to bring him on the show. Oh,
yeah. Idiot. Yes. Boost boost. You get a boost sound.
Verbal boost. Yeah. We need him.
Let me see if I can get a boost to sound away.
There's There's got to be an audible boost on the because
this is too fun.
Let's see boost sound effects Hold on a second. Let me see
what I got here. Central. mucking around anyway. Let's
just see if I got a boost in this. I need to boost. Yes.
Boost baby. Yeah.
What was that? preview? Yeah, yeah, we need we need to we need
to get Jennifer Buchanan to do a boost sound at the top of it
you've boosted? Yes I'm like that That's awesome.
Yes. So now the beauty of what they're working on is they have
an app that is that is I think it's a neutrino app. So it's a
very lightweight Bitcoin lightning node that functions by
itself and has keys and outbound enabled. So in order to receive
satoshis, you need to have something that's online all the
time. But to send them you only have to be connected to be able
to send to whatever the whatever receiving node is programmed for
the for the value split. So this scales infinitely, at least
until we break the lightning network, but it scales
infinitely for people to use. And, and yeah, so even if
you're, if you're a podcaster maybe have a look@voltage.io or
raspy Blitz or Sphinx chat for me, you can use that perfectly
fine to use a node that you have over there to receive your
satoshis on
did a voltage node light node this past week?
Yeah, experience was great. Yeah, not fantastic.
Mm hmm. Once the light node works fine. Yeah.
I got the full blown big note. I didn't know at the time, just
like I'll just take the big note because I figured we got big
stuff coming in. Well, I almost wanted to I
almost did the big node then I was like, you know, I want to
get the light neutrino node just for a test run to see how it
works. Right. So far. It's been good rock solid. Yeah,
excellent.
Yeah. Yeah. Good over there. I like it.
By the way, you know, we were talking about we talked a little
bit about substack. Last week.
We agreed, yeah.
How they felt like how they do fees. Mm hmm. I found there's a
really good article called the substack irati. From the
Columbia Journalism Review, and it's says in here that they take
10% Yeah, it says the guys devised, guys she's referring
Guys, guys, is the guys that started. By the way, it's very
interesting article if you if you're
putting it in the show notes right now.
And it's worth a full res very long, but it's worth reading it
for a lot of different reasons. So the Clio,
the Clio Chang article.
Yes, exactly. Right. Now part of the part of this article feels
feels different feels defensive of the J squad. The It feels
like a journalist trying to contain one. Yeah, yeah. But
there's also political Anyway, there's this very interesting
article, but she she says that this is the guys talking about
the founders of substack devised a system of taking a 10% cut
from subscriptions. stripe, the credit card service that
processes the fees would take an X would take 2.9% plus 30 cents
per transaction, which they felt tied down to the riders. Ah, so
I don't it's a little difficult to decipher issue means 10% cut
and in stripe is an additional 2.9%. Or, I'm not sure how they
But anyways, 10% and then minimum, perhaps 12.9%. So I
don't know. But that's not it, so that you do that compared to
compared to the value block. And there's there's potentially
nothing if you don't want it to be or you know, if you're
stingy. Or if you want to you know, if you're willing to split
out some for other things like the podcast app, and the index
or, you know, all these other things. There's there's other
ways to slice it, but it's definitely well south of 10%.
Oh, no kidding. No kidding.
Oh, my good not to worry about being d platformed. It's
cheaper, and you don't have to worry about D platform.
And it helps create an ecosystem. Yeah. Yep. It really
does. And I think if only if we start with the, with lightning
payments for work that's being done and for value splits and
credits, you know, it it's priming the pump, and I'm just
seeing this the this machine is rolling it Is it is just
running. It's like, as an entrepreneur, there's different
moments in it. And I've started several companies and taken one
public. And so there's all these moments that you kind of come to
recognize. And when all of a sudden, you spin the wheel and
the flywheel keeps going. And this is an incredible moment,
and that's what's taking place here. The flywheel is spinning
in perpetual motion by itself. Okay, we had some kind of slow
down the other day between 4pm and 11pm. But the thing is
spinning, it's really happening. And all we need is just more
apps to support this. And the podcasters. And everything will
come I mean, the Bitcoin guys, they're having a ball. Yeah,
Bitcoin podcasts aren't the jack, Jack's man. It's
fantastic. Yeah,
there's so I looked it up, there's 10 podcasts total, with
a block enabled in the index so far. So if he didn't match, you
just imagine, you know, if you go, you know, if you multiply
that, that times, you know, if you go up to 100, podcasts, we
know what they're doing, you're talking about, all of a sudden,
you that's meaningful money that begins to support, like, for our
standpoint, begins to support. Let's just go up to 1000
podcasts. Now you're talking about 70 $700 a month. Now
you're talking about being able to cover all the hosting fees,
all of our stuff. Yep. All of the infrastructure with 1000
podcasts. And that's, that's at 1%. And if the app takes 1% now
the app guys are getting paid. Significant. Yeah. I mean, a
decent amount of money. I mean, like, that's what, there's no,
if you take somebody like hyper catcher, I'd love to he would
love to be getting $500 a month. Sure. And he can get it he can
get it being worth his time.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, no, so we'll publish that. I think
we also should add to the new podcast apps, maybe someone we
have to surface I know you've made an endpoint for it. We need
to surface the value block enabled the shows
yet Trent is redoing the website. Ah,
drug Play Doh to the rescue.
Yeah, I had a GSE meeting with him the other day. And a great
guy, man.
Oh, no, I've had coffee with him here in town. He's a fabulous
guy.
He's in Austin. Hester.
Yeah, he's, uh, he recently moved here. You know, he's, he's
like, younger than my daughter. But you wouldn't know it. I
mean, the guy is just like wood. He's very worldly, super smart,
and very, very talented. He's,
he's an old soul.
Mm hmm. There you go. That's it.
Yeah, but he's, he's redoing the website. And so he's just, it's
not gonna be a major change. But he's just like restructuring it
and reformatting some stuff. So I'm gonna let him finish that
first, before I make any big changes to it. And then once he
gets that done, then I'm going to put up the do the feats page
and all that.
So let's get you Paul on Evan from Smith's chat for next week
if they can make it. Well, we already got next week. Oh, who
do we have next week? next week. Dave?
The guests from transistor. Oh, cool.
Okay. All right. Don't do it after them. Do we have another
week before Christmas?
We got to figure out what to do about Christmas because
Christmas Friday falls on the 25th it is Christmas Day. So we
need to pre record something I think.
Yeah, well, I don't know. Yeah, we'll think of we'll think of
what to do. I wonder if we could get James Cridland on for? Let's
see if it's Christmas for us. It'll be New Year's in
Australia. So
yeah.
I'd love to have James on. I'd very much want to have James.
Okay.
So let's say 6pm. His time isn't known. 6pm Our time is 9am his
time?
Oh, well. We can do it at 6pm.
Yeah, the ethics. Especially if it's an off day. Yeah, it is not
a Friday. Yeah, we can do that.
We'll work on James but so we got a transistor next week. And
then can we do Paul and Evan, I want to get ball on Amazon.
The week after? Yeah, yeah. If you think and then
you mean my wine.
Okay, we can
talk namespace
when you have to clean your room first. My room is clean as a
whistle. It is man. That picture your studio was bombed.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I realized later that people look at like,
oh, okay, it looks cool. But they don't really understand.
This is custom made for me for the way I set up my gear which
is portable. So I mean, it's, it's, it's so perfect. I'm so
happy here.
Now. I like that they is this LED string lights.
That's the cheapest addition to my studio and I have little
remote control. So I like the blue kind of purplish blue.
harem look when I'm doing now often when I do show I'll, I'll
do a little orange to get it because it gives you energy. And
you can do it all you can do it all from from the remote
control. That was literally like 20 bucks before the stream in
there all the time all the time. Yeah, I'm Uh, I'm the guy that
has the dark studio. I don't want the outside in. So I can
totally my, my space right now is the screen in front of me to
the left is where I see your meter go up and down that
represents you. And to the right is jingles or, you know, like
this stuff. And I'm just in my little world, man. I don't see
anything outside of it. I
love it. That's perfect. I'm currently podcasting from my
hallway. I'm in the flub sitting in the floor.
This is one of your better studios.
It
sounds very good. I'm very nice. And I got a lot less of the fire
truck going by this time.
Yeah. I'm perfectly enclosed in here now. It's it knows good.
Yeah. So like, and I've also got Todd and I talked to Mike. Mike
from blueberry blueberry. Yeah, and I've got Todd and Mike are
gonna be on with us in January. Ah,
super. Oh, man. Now we're cooking with gas. And we got to
get Martin on. Yes, absolutely. Well, everybody, we need to get
everybody on. Party. Just like a potty. Exactly. All right. Uh,
yeah. I think we've we've, we've the board. We had a quorum, we
can close it out. Yes. Anything else you need that I can conjure
out of air for you.
And I need to talk about the Amazon outage. But another do
that today. We're gonna talk about that in the next week. I
guess. Next time we have a non guest we will talk about the
Amazon. There's a lot to learn.
Ah, okay. Well, that is important to do. So let's let's
make sure we remember that because I have my own theories
about the Amazon outage. Okay, it may surprise you.
I have a printout of their post mortem. Ooh, that is marked up,
but we'll save that for the next show. Yeah, I think that's
great. All right. Dave. Have a great weekend. My brother, you
too man. And everybody else. This has been podcasting. 2.0
Episode Number 14. We'll see you again next Friday. Take it easy.
Everybody. See you next time podcasting 2.0
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit podcast
in this Zack Hall. For more information.