Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for July 7 2023, episode 140 shim
theory
Well, Hello once again it's Friday, a brand new month and
welcome to podcasting. 2.0 The official place to find out
everything that's happening with the now and the future of
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index.org We are the only boardroom that is AI free. And
gentlemen, I'm Adam curry in the heart of the Texas Hill Country
and Alabama, the man you can find it in both Latin and non
Latin serve. Say hello to my friend on the other end. Mr.
Dave Jones.
Dave Jones: Total cluster today just like cluster. Yeah,
everything is everything that could go wrong has gone wrong
today.
Adam Curry: Oh, I'm sorry. What? What? What is the problems? I
Dave Jones: usually go. I usually do show prep before.
Before I go to work. Okay. Yeah. On Fridays, because you know,
the day jobs on Fridays are hard. Sure. I get it. But this
morning, I wake up and immediately have a call from the
office.
Adam Curry: Oh, I hate those those mornings. You know, that's
not good. What wasn't working? What wasn't working? What three,
Dave Jones: three hours later, I finally get it solved in just
like okay, I've now got a scramble. It's yeah, it's just
been it's been like that whole day. It's just been that kind of
stuff.
Then I was trying to prep a clip for the show. I got one of them.
But I had another one that I wanted. And I had to resort to
recording do a screen recording on it because I was on a
different machine than usual. And God Almighty I could not get
this thing converted to mp3. I finally just gave up. I mean,
like it was like 1228 And I'm like eff this. I gotta go the
show how I mean, what are you using to do conversions? How
hard can that be? I was on a Mac and
Adam Curry: Nuff said Nuff said Mac, please. I used to be such
an apple boy. I was so I love Mac's I defended them
everything. Man I have the original Newton I stood in line
for it. I was a junkie until they screwed up my USB audio
interfaces. That's when I got pretty mad and then they screwed
up Final Cut Pro. That's when I gave up.
Dave Jones: It's a disaster. The Mac is a disaster. Everything
that you want it especially when they do when they went to Apple,
you know their own processors. Yeah. It's just so well I live
in theory, I lived
Adam Curry: through the Motorola to Intel switch that was
actually an interesting period. They had that really funky
laptop, the black one with kind of the rubbery feel to it. And
yeah, and then that was their whole thing is like, Oh yeah,
we're gonna have all the operating system for work and
Dave Jones: I hate Macs with a passion. And the only reason I
have them at home it was a conscious decision on my part. I
was like, Okay, I'm gonna work my day. And my, my day job work
is 100% windows. On on the user side, its own server side. It's
a mix of lots of stuff, Linux windows, you know, but on the
user side is totally windows. But these kids coming out of
college. They all go through college with MAC's Yeah, a lot
of them Yeah, yeah. In them when they get into when they get into
the workforce, they switch to Windows but they still have
Mac's at home. So we started getting like all these people
that were connecting when they when they VPN to work they were
doing it from a Mac Yeah. So I'm like okay, we we need to be able
to troubleshoot Mac so I'd use the I made the decision I'm like
I'm gonna force myself to use a Mac at home so I can have the
knowledge to help these people and I'm about done with that.
I'm so tired of this and I'm not doing
Adam Curry: interesting you know my my daughter's here visiting
with her boyfriend slash fiance.
Dave Jones: Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Congratulations and
getting to see her Yeah,
Adam Curry: well it took them three days to get here with
canceled flights misconnections it was quite a quite a
nightmare. Especially because it's all happening during no
agenda. I'm getting right he's literally calling me from the
customs you'd like they're gonna send me to the little room
unless I can prove you know that I haven't returned. Little room
is not good. When you come into the country people I've been
there the little room is not fun. But he's a he's a producer
and he uses Windows. He's like now he's I gave up on Mac a long
time ago he said all the all the pro producers that are not all
that's not correct. But a lot of the big ones They've all moved
to Windows for Ableton Live and stuff like that. And they've
just done with Mac they they don't like the expense. They
don't like the problems. It's really it's quite interesting
how Apple's A Of course they have the mobile market. I guess
Hello Dave Yeah, I don't hear you.
Dave Jones: Am I gonna there you are weird Yeah, what happened? I
don't know.
Adam Curry: You're streaming video again aren't you?
Dave Jones: Yeah but that's been going for a while.
Adam Curry: Whenever something's wrong I always blame OBS
Dave Jones: there was no OBS this time I did I did get C I
have h top running so I can make sure that I'm not frozen that if
if as long as the bar graphs are changing I know I'm not I'm not
I'm not in a boot situation
Adam Curry: state of affairs when you have to have each top
running and know that you're on the air. something inherently
wrong about that.
Dave Jones: You're like Dave Dave
Adam Curry: let's start off today with the bang I was
reliably informed that today is the second anniversary of the
booster gram which just started Yes Two years ago on this date
and I believe the first official booster gram was sent from curio
caster if I'm not mistaken.
Dave Jones: What was the first official booster gram?
Adam Curry: Oh, you know, we should not we should know what
it actually is. I don't know what the what the text was of
the first booster gram. Oh, that's huh. I should know that.
I guess. Maybe we should immortalize this Yeah, we need
to know that. Yeah, maybe So Steven became me posted in the
chat room while we play our celebratory booster gram jingle
the very best remember this one is
I will lose them across the land
die there it is. Let me see. It was Sir Chad Pharaoh who? Who
said today it was to what was it? I'm hoping someone can find
out but I was Wait a minute. Wait, Steven. Steven B has a
link here it is what was the
Dave Jones: first Don't click it Don't click it.
Adam Curry: Oh no. Here it is. value m sat 1000 M sat so cheap
boost message sent from curio caster tip jar colong Really?
I've changed Oh can I can't see that. Oh, I've changed my mind
so much. I can't even trust it. My mind changed me so much. I
can't even trust myself. Wow, that's a very much like a Mary
Had a Little Lamb kind of thing.
Dave Jones: Oh, yes. Cuz
Adam Curry: I love that it actually says message sent from
curio casters. Tip Jar. Wow, I squash that pretty quick. Didn't
I?
Dave Jones: can tell that's old.
Adam Curry: And so we've gone from this
Dave Jones: is fantastic. This is like, yeah, we need to make
an NFT out of this.
Adam Curry: And ordinals Sure. Everyone knows Yes. I'm gonna
put this I want to put this into the into the show notes. So we
can immortalize that.
Dave Jones: Do you find that so fast? Stephen? Oh, my gosh. I
mean, this is from 2021.
Adam Curry: Isn't that cool? was first was the Grammys it
actually from the date? Is it from from the actual date to
July 7 20. Oh, wow. How cool is that? Well, so today, I just
view how we've moved ahead in two short years. scissors are
sharp, no rounded edges today. Steven B changed everything.
Cool. Yeah, he changed everything. He took out the most
of the production elements of the value time split from
sovereign feeds, which he felt was getting kind of messy. And
so he moved all of that to a tight integration with the split
kit. So now you you operate your live? Well, basically all your
splits, and certainly the live stuff all from the split kit. So
there are two things with this, which was kind of interesting.
The first one was this work that he had done, rendered sovereign
feeds inoperable Wednesday night was trying to post curry in the
keeper. Like, okay, and and, you know, it's
Dave Jones: always good to always get the signal from you,
hey, you know, Steven bass number,
Adam Curry: and no one has his number. And I always forget to
ask for his number. You know, it's like,
Dave Jones: genius on his part, by the way. Great, great call.
Adam Curry: I can't say I can't say it's a bad thing. You know,
I'm posting on Twitter. I'm posting DMS everywhere I'm
sending an email like, this thing's broken. It's really when
when the interface just is completely non responsive. Do
you click and nothing happens it's, you know that you don't
know if it's you if it's your browser or if it's DNS, you
know, go it was OBS, you go through all these things like
now and that's definitely and then I remembered that he had
made this change like Okay, so that's probably where it came
from. So today I kind of had to learn split kit and he has a
tutorial. And this thing does a lot. It really you can build
blocks, you can search songs, you can do it, you can do the,
you know, the songs can be in a playlist. There's so much to
them. I was a little overwhelmed. Just getting it all
set up, but I think it's working. We'll know because we
are guests. One of our guests has chosen the song for today.
But also I am very excited because it looks like we have
some massive movement in the remote item. Value time split
arena where you and I have both seen a demo from a fountain of
how fountain when I don't want to give it away because you
obviously Oscar wants to surprise everybody with the
ideas that he has. But wow, it's it's I really love what he's
done. Hold on second. If someone vacuuming? No, no, I think it's
I think it's a mind. Vacuum now she's now she's sleeping. Very
interesting way of implementing. What am I hearing now? I hear
feedback. Yeah, no, yeah, no, someone is literally vacuuming
like, you know, I do so many podcasts that just don't give a
crap anymore to
Dave Jones: every podcast. We've never live, this is
Adam Curry: true. Anyway, a very interesting way of surfacing
remote items as they pertain to value time splits. Really very
focused. Well, not just focused on music, but it'd be really
interesting a very cool implementation for music. And,
and along with that, you know, Austin has been talking to the
wavelength guys and so now they've gotten a fire under
there but all of a sudden, and there have you seen any any
action from them, but they putting stuff into the index? or
what have you seen from them? I saw a blog post from them guys
saw that too. Yeah, that's what I saw. How do you interpret the
blog post
Dave Jones: and interpret it as they are getting getting geared
up? Like they're, they're getting ginned up and ready to
you know, I mean, like, like that they feel that they feel
like things have come along or about to come along to a point
where they want to go full, full
Adam Curry: bore, like Yeah, that's that's the feeling I got
to
Dave Jones: I know that that's not very clear. No,
Adam Curry: I think it's that they are possibly considering
doing configurable splits, maybe maybe not.
Dave Jones: did say that they said that in the blog post that
that's on there. Right that that's on their roadmap. Yeah.
Adam Curry: In addition to that, I think they're going to use
people tag tag. And you know, so I'm getting ready now because
you know, I said what I think so we have pod freight curio caster
pod friend pod vers pod versus value time split now I think
right? It's it's still in beta is that being full full blown
mode?
Dave Jones: Pod verse is I don't know if he released it yet.
Adam Curry: Okay. We'll have found and all this coming this
month I think by the end of the month, so I'm getting my music
show ready. And I'm very excited about this um, you know, coming
up with you know, go back and forth you know, I would
initially said I'll do the wave like top 40 But I I'd like to
keep it a little more open. Yeah, I agree. Because we have
all kinds of people who will be hosting music and self hosted
through Ellen, Ellen beats etc. And so I have a couple of things
to discuss with you moving forward that I want to run back
to I want to talk to you about this earlier the week but we
were both busy man they really don't give a crap. They just
hear it now. Mixtures vacuum cleaners are you at a hotel? I
think someone is using a drill for some reason I'm not sure
what they're doing out there. Did the work so a couple things.
Actually, it kind of came to me while I was talking to Oscar but
also I saw what contracts is doing and I'm very I love what
contracts are doing your contract started as you know,
basically a stats package that integrated with the get Alby
wallet, but now they're really becoming a you know, they're
they're marketing themselves as a place to monetize your podcast
to grow your podcast. They tweeting out stuff like short
and practical advice to increase the support you get from
listeners, you can onboard. So they they have, they have access
to the Partner API. And they can, and they can onboard
podcasts into value for value. And I really like what they're
doing. That mean just the, you know, the kind of, in an odd
way, they are filling a void that hosting companies can't
Most hosting companies can't keep up with the demand. You
know, like, just adding features is a big deal. When you have a
hosting company, you know, a lot can go wrong, you can screw up a
lot of feeds, you know, I understand you have to be kind
of careful with stuff like that. So I'm like Lipson literally
can't afford it. I mean, I interview today with the interim
CEO, he doesn't expect to do any real 2.0 namespace tags until
2024, because of market conditions, so IE, they don't
have the money, which is sad. And I thought it was sad to hear
that. Yeah. But they're considering AI. Thank God.
Dave Jones: Market conditions don't affect that.
Adam Curry: No, evidently not. So this is what I've always
thought would be cool. I see. IPFS podcasting. Now. You know,
if you if you put a 1% split in your value block, they'll
they'll pin you, they'll scan you. I mean, people are starting
to use this kind of, I've always called it the podcast or the
podcast creator API. You know, you don't really need to do
anything, but just have to know how to put a split into your
into your value block.
Dave Jones: Yes, the plug is the plug in model, the podcaster
plug in podcast, API. Exactly. Yeah. You just plug somebody in
your valuables
Adam Curry: are working. Exactly. I love it. Now. Here's
what I want to talk to you about. So the by far the
biggest. I would say the biggest opportunity for music is we've
talked about this before SoundCloud. And SoundCloud does
not enable their RSS feeds by default, but they have RSS feeds
with enclosures. If you do a search on the podcast index,
you'll just do for SoundCloud. You'll see a lot of results. I
don't know how many, but there's a lot of results for SoundCloud
a lot. So in this whole onboarding mechanism, here was
my thought. If someone onboards a podcast or the podcast
presumably has already has an artist, the music The artist has
an RSS feed. And whether that's through wave lake or but
Melissa, for argument's sake, let's just say SoundCloud
because that's truly what I'm targeting here. So you can say
to an artist, hey, click this thing in your in your SoundCloud
dashboard, that turns on your RSS feed, add it to the index,
everybody can pretty much do that. It's clear because people
have already done it, then go to an onboarding partner. In this
case, I'll use fountain as an example. Fountain will onboard
them will onboard them with the wallet the way they do podcasts
currently. And then give someone the option to flip a switch to
say this is music. And that would then feed back into the
index to set the medium equals music tag. I know it's a Shem
but I think it would blow everything out of the water
Dave Jones: yeah,
Adam Curry: the enthusiasm is so much I have to backup so doesn't
splatter me in the face.
Dave Jones: Man, I don't like the shim part. I mean, I know
what you're saying because we went down this route with with
transcripts to
Adam Curry: write but I see the difference here
Dave Jones: why like? Yeah, yes, no, I see what you mean. And I
see what you mean because your day
Adam Curry: we're not asking for any remote information. We're
not hosting anything. All we're doing is setting a bid in our
database. Right just and that would be I guess the only way to
do it unless you know people start bugging their their
hosting companies like SoundCloud to make that a
feature.
Dave Jones: See that? That's what I that's what it should be
on the obvious. I mean, let's just go again say that I mean
that they should have an option there absolutely, absolutely.
Make this music in the feed itself in like the we need a
Shem theory.
Adam Curry: Title. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Dave Jones: We need a shim theory this here under these
circumstances. It's an under certain under conditions. X X Y
and Z. That's when you shim Yes, yes, if x y if x, y or z do not
obtain don't shim.
Adam Curry: So the the reason why I thought this was, we have
not come up with a shim theory yet. The reason why I thought
this was acceptable is because this is an onboarding
specifically to enable value for value. And value for value music
doesn't work unless the medium equals music tag is set. So
there's so there would not be a different way to do it, we
wouldn't just give everybody the opportunity to set that only if
you go through an onboarding process, you know, I guess, in
theory, podcast or wallet, but I don't think anybody will do
that, because of the podcasts or moniker. But this on the
onboarding part, is the same for hosting companies. They're not
going to do this for a long time. Because they're not set up
to host music. They're not. They are not, it's, you know, because
it's not just flipping a bit for them. It's setting a whole new
path, writing a whole writing new language, and to have
contracts or Well, blueberry, I think would probably do it. You
know, blueberry would would probably with the WordPress
plugin would probably create the secondary path, I would imagine.
Seems like that's a logical partner to do this. Because you
can self host it, you don't necessarily need, you know, you
don't necessarily need big hosting, so you can get a very
inexpensive hosting plan. It's really, it's really the setting
of the bid for someone who's serious about monetizing their
music. That's, that was my hope. I understand your apprehension.
You are in fact speechless for a moment that doesn't happen
often.
Dave Jones: So yeah, I mean, Steven B says it ends up hurting
wavelike, who's already hosting music and Wallace? Yeah, I mean,
that's true, too.
Adam Curry: Well, hold on it. Did. I mean, did the shim not
hurt other people who set up value blocks?
Dave Jones: Well, the shim exists, like the shim existed
before the shim existed before anybody did vote me like it
literally was the true truth strap. And so that that
continued, because it was very for a long time, because it was
almost impossible. Honestly, we could probably get rid. At this
point. We almost could get rid of podcasts or wallet.
Adam Curry: Yeah, no, I'm in total agreement. But before we
go, talking about that, the four to eight minutes. I mean, the
difference here is we we really don't have a big pool. I'm going
to be able to do five, five episodes of my show. And I'm out
of wavelengths songs. I gotcha. Yeah. And if I'm, if I know I
can do it, because if I do a call out to everybody, if you
want this to happen, go to wave legs. I think that's just as
dangerous as saying all your wallet should be Albie, because
we're going to it's all going to bite us in the ass, believe me,
I'll be will go down, there will be an incredible crisis. It's
all it's you can you know what's gonna happen? I'm not trying to
manifest. But this, this will happen. So we need this
diversity. And I'm not sure where the dystopia guys are. I
don't see anything from them. Honestly, that's coming into the
index yet.
Dave Jones: There's some there's some stuff here. There's some
stuff.
Adam Curry: Anyway, why it's so interesting, because I think
that we're at the point where, if you think about the Okay,
let's go back to my original premise. If you think about the,
the podcast or plugin, labs now have the ability to offer so
many more features, through, you know, the basically plugging in
lightning splits, that they will far surpass what hosting
companies can never do to make any sense. Yeah, so the only
thing this is going to hurt all hosting companies long term
because they're just slow. And, you know, like, I see Buzzsprout
who of course, we love Buzzsprout, the one of the first
to implement almost every everything that was important to
us. But they focus on very different things. And they're
focusing on their subscriptions and advertising and that you
don't really hear them, you know, yeah, from time to time to
talk about value for value. But then they're, they're never
really going to be focused on it. And I think if we, and
maybe, maybe that maybe this is where shim theory comes in. Now,
because no one's really set up for the A documentaries or film
or any of the other medium tags, and they're just going to be
lingering there. Because, you know, we've seen that we so
since we implemented the medium tag for music, we really only
have one, one outfit that's doing it.
Dave Jones: Another another not opposed to shim, I'm just I want
to make sure that you can shim and vary in different places,
and an own make sure that the shim happens at the proper at
that at what we would all consider to be the proper place
graders like, which
Adam Curry: is why I said it would be like podcast or wallet
or through the because that's where the original Shem was put.
Dave Jones: Right? Yeah. So there's this is there's a few
different ways you can do. You could do this, like initially,
it's going to be very much a trickle. I think we can agree
with that. Right? I mean, we're gonna get there's not a whole
there's not music is not flooding into the podcasting.
Adam Curry: But this is, okay. This is why I'm suggesting it
because I believe that if I can say you can self host through
music side project, you can use Wave Lake, and I don't know
where wave Lake is with their splits, you know, they I saw the
blog post. I'm not sure what this topia is doing. But if I
can say, Oh, you already have the music on on SoundCloud.
Click this bit, go into this go into this app, whichever one it
is, I'm going to use fountain as an example. Because you know,
they're they're going to do they will be ready to do this. And
there you can set up your splits your wallet and and make sure
your music is discoverable as playable music in the index. I
think I think that actually will create a lot of music coming
into the index.
Dave Jones: Couldn't they just like, Okay, you take the amount
lunch bumper, I'm gonna play devil's advocate. Sure. So you
have that amount of work, whatever, you know, X amount of
work this is that you just described is that that actually
probably is not that much more work, or the workload is not
probably much different than if you just grabbed your music and
re uploaded it to wave Lake.
Adam Curry: No. Well, yes, that's correct. And I can
certainly do that is wavelength prepared for that? Do we want to
put it all onto one host? Do we want to make it will they have
I'm not a big fan? Or dystopia? I mean, I see nothing from
dystopia.
Dave Jones: There's stuff in there. I'm looking at a feed
right now. I mean, it's got a place got the medium tag in its
there is to me, we've I don't think they've been they haven't
been as vocal about it as as wave Lake. But I mean, it is.
I'm just thinking, if if we if you start if you start doing a
music show, and in then you know it because like, Okay, well, if
you want your music here, you're gonna have to take grab your 25
tracks, that you upload it to SoundCloud.
Adam Curry: Absolutely, I don't think it's the same amount of
work. But I absolutely agree that that is a perfectly good
path for people to go down. I was just trying to make it a
little faster. And bigger with more because people it I truly
believe it's easier for people to say, Oh, I have to do this,
this and this. I already have everything up. Now, it's a new
feature, which I think would ultimately I mean, the
alternative is I just go and bitch and moan about SoundCloud
every single day. I mean, it's fine. But I just want more, I
just want more music, I will need more music. And, and so I
understand if the Shem has not if if it's not desirable, I
understand that and I am not going to fight to the death for
it. But I just thought it was because I'm so so high on the
whole idea of the podcast or plugin, you know, of stuff being
enabled by me, you know, adding a split or doing something in an
app and not necessarily my hosting company. Because just as
I can't rely on any other hosting company, except you
know, the one or two that are just starting, and I'm not a fan
of the of the wave Lake non split system right now. And I
think they have work to do.
Dave Jones: They did for sure. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Where's that system is already set up. And maybe
they can implement the API, the Partner API and get it going
quick. I mean, that'd be fantastic.
Dave Jones: The point I was starting to make a while ago
about how this would be a trickle initially, is I don't
mind instead of creating A a shim mechanism in the Partner
API. You know, where I wonder if it's enough to just say, you
know, okay, you, you onboard yourself through, be a fifth of
a fountain or whatever, and then just let us know. And when wolf
flipped the bid for you, and I just put it in it, and it's it's
manual initially. And just to get the thing off the ground,
Adam Curry: why would now that's, that seems like a worse
idea to me. Okay. I mean, why would we be flipping the bid for
people? We know, I mean,
Dave Jones: I'm concerned about it. I guess my bigger concern
about the shimming is that once you create, once you create
this, it's very fuzzy when you turn it. Dave, Dave Winer has as
good advice here, you know, he always said, he always said you
never take a feature away. Right? You're you always add,
you don't want it, but you got to be careful what you add,
because you, you don't, not that you can't take it away. But you
should never, you know, quote unquote, should never take it
away, because people become dependent upon it. And if we
have, if we put that feature in theirs, I don't ever want to be
in the position where we have to announce that we're going to
take something away. And we I don't know, it just this, this
is the same. I don't know.
Adam Curry: We don't need an answer, per se right now.
Dave Jones: I'd rather have some real I would rather really push
like this. If you've if you've uploaded your stuff to
SoundCloud, and it's music like it's actually music.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Which I think is 99%.
Dave Jones: And you and you give a crap about it. Like meaning
that you meaning that you care, you didn't just upload a couple
of tracks five years ago and don't and don't think about it
anymore. Like if you're if you're an active participant in
in getting your music out there for people to hear. And you've
managed to upload it to SoundCloud. If you're probably
pretty. I mean, you're probably technically sufficient enough to
also throw that thing up on wave Lake. He got to be I mean, like,
it's got you got to be Yeah, no, I
Adam Curry: mean, no, I mean, no disagreement, but I just don't
like the idea of relying on one company.
Dave Jones: I don't either. Yeah, we need to we need at
least two. Like, I'll talk to the Asha. Talk to the dystopia
go, we need to have more than podcasts anyway, we need to do
that forever. Like, I can reach out today.
Adam Curry: No, sure. We're Devin, I am being very clear
about it. I would like to get everyone on SoundCloud to be
able to be available for playing in podcast. That's, that's truly
what you know. So there's people who are already in the index,
and they can't be played on podcast because they don't have
the music bitset I can find him and I can find some. But it's
not the same thing. They're not you know, they don't show up in
the split kit. You know, this, all these things don't work
without the medium equals music set. That that's that's really
the you know, and there's ways around it. Right now, the music
business is in a very, like in a dead zone. People are
disillusioned by Spotify, that you know, what's happening is
they're, they're going to noster honestly, if anything, I feel
like we're fighting noster because and you know, people Oh
Nasir is a great place to go. And then you know, they get some
kind of zap or whatever. And they're going to end they're
going to miss all the all the beauty and all the marketing of
what we're doing. And of course, I've had lots of people on board
through wave Lake already, you know, in anticipation and I've
got people out there who were telling people to go to wave
Lake, right? I just want to create a revolution by making it
something that people already have and upgrading it for them
and not doing it. The honestly, to me it feels like the more we
can't we don't do with the hosting companies do better.
Because they're just slow. They just don't get stuff done. And I
don't want to do it as as as podcasts index. But you know,
there are even people who are doing apps who are saying hey,
why would I just become a hosting company? Which I which I
definitely advise against? wavelength will go through the
me already there's there's songs on there. See SoundCloud has a
lot already figured out mainly the legality. And my biggest
fear, didn't really want to i, this almost sounds like
manifesting when we just talk about it. My biggest fear is you
get songs that are covers, etc. And they're gonna get in
trouble. It's gonna be it's gonna get in trouble. Of course,
you can't you can't do cover songs. You can't, you can't. You
can't just publish cover songs without proper without, you
know, without proper licensing and going through the proper
institutions. And that's something that SoundCloud has
figured out a long time ago. So wave Lake will go through the
growing pains, and as well as anyone who does this from from
the get go.
Dave Jones: Well, you know, one thing that we did when Alex and
I did the the long, multiple months of AI, detailer, machine
learning detection of music in the index, what we saw was that,
yes, there's tons of music on SoundCloud. But so much of it is
like, remix. It's like, House Trance music type, where it's
just the it'll be like one track. And I'm not denigrating
and saying this is not valid. I mean, it's just fine. But it'll
be but there's just so much of the same type of thing. That's
like one track. That's 30 minutes of just do. I mean, you
like, and I don't know, that it's not that that's not valid.
That's not what that's not the point I'm making. The point I'm
making is I don't think you can make a show out of that.
Adam Curry: Well, where you need to get out more. This is not
your kind of not mine. No, no, I agree. But not my kind of show.
But this is I'm listening to what Kevin's doing here. He
that's, you know, that's that's his music. And so I can't you
know, that almost goes back to what is a podcast, you know,
what, should we just cut off a cast? Because this shit? We
don't always we don't we don't consider it a show.
Dave Jones: I'm not really trying to not make that type of
argument, I guess. Because I'm thinking about, that's just not
the type of show I don't I don't think that's the type of show
you want to make.
Adam Curry: No, no, I don't. But I know that there's going to be
other people who will there's going to be people who are doing
entire five hour dance party podcast, why not? You know, and
they're just mixing all of those different tracks together. I'll
tell you what, why don't we Why don't we bring in some other
board members and get their opinion on this. These people
are very smart. I agree. I think it's time to bring in our board
members. They are very major podcasting 2.0 contributors.
We'd like to say hello to the two men who are currently
working with Dave on the pier to plug in no agenda tube we
welcome into the podcast and Tupelo boardroom Alex gates and
Don Kimberlin known as airhead. Hello, gentlemen. Hey, all
right, weigh in. You've been listening. paladin, Alex, you
always have something
Unknown: just to weigh in. On the last point. I have a buddy.
Actually, the official detox music guy, he wants to do a
dance party show, usually value free value. So he's actually big
into sancha, too. So I mean, maybe get him to talk to them
and modify their RSS feed. So you don't need the shame in the
first place.
Adam Curry: He has poor with I
would say as poor that he's a customer.
He pays 20 bucks a month. I mean, that would obviously be
the way to go. But we've talked about it. You know, we've we've
sent out messages. I mean, I don't know if they're, if
they're, I mean, to me, it's like I don't even know how
they're surviving. SoundCloud. I don't know, I have no idea what
they're doing. I don't know anybody there. I do remember
them putting RSS feeds in and calling themselves a podcast
company when it was really hip to do so.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and, you know, there's also we forget about
band camp as well. Yeah.
Adam Curry: I mean, well, obviously, this would work for a
whole bunch of already existing music services. That's, that's
so I'm not just talking about SoundCloud, but the capability
for someone who is a musician to say I want to do this. I've
already put it into that they have to, they have to have an
RSS feed with enclosures, they have to put it into the index.
But then once you're serious about value for value, that's
one you have the opportunity to set the flip the bit that that
was my idea. I don't know Alex, do you have thoughts?
Alecks Gates: Yeah, I mean the execution there's no issue issue
there.
Adam Curry: Sophocles, perfectly as clearly one. Yeah, I
Unknown: think attribution like even if you're not into the
whole Dj Mix that thing, just attribution to songs is a big is
a big issue. And that's why, like, if you do a DJ set on
Spotify, you can't just publish the whole thing, you have to
divide it into a whole album playlist and, and give credit to
all the different artists that are part of that mix. So
Adam Curry: now I'm talking more about that the concept of a Shem
for the medium tag your thoughts on that? Oh,
Unknown: well, I don't know how valuable would be without the
value for value and integration. And I think we can do that
automatically. They would be good to have the information to
reach out to artists. But that's,
Adam Curry: I'm not quite sure what you're saying?
Unknown: Well, it would be good to just understand just to have
the data there, even if, even if it's not all value value, but it
would limit what you can do with it without the value value
automatically. One
Adam Curry: was okay, my specifically my proposal is, if
you want, you can put your stuff in the index. And preferably
that would be if it's music, you want to find a way to make that
music. But if you want to put your existing music that's on an
RSS feed into the index and value for value, that then the
Partner API would have the capability for setting the
medium tag in the index so that it can be used with value time
split. So it's a philosophical idea of us creating a shim for
people who want value for value enabled music and don't have
that available at their host.
Unknown: That's that's a hard one.
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's why that's why we asked you the hard
question, brother.
Unknown: Yeah. I mean, if, if they have to opt into it? Yeah,
I don't see the issue. I mean, it'd be, it'd be just one step
below moving to wavelet. And some of that might be in both
wave like in SoundCloud as it is.
Dave Jones: Well, Nathan G said in the chat. He's like, in this
goes back to something that you envisioned that the whole reason
really you made the remote item tag. Initially, Alex was he
said, Nathan said, What about a service that generates a new RSS
feed filled with remote item tags, pointing to SoundCloud
feeds medium equals music and his own pay for Facebook is an
interesting idea. Yeah, I mean, you could you could, you could,
you know, Brett, you can make make a synthetic feed that does
what we want it to do,
Adam Curry: which I'm not a big fan of in general. But it right,
it can do it. But you know, then you get into the what was the
damn service called? Feed burner feed burner? Yeah.
Unknown: Well, and one issue with that is yes, you can do
playlists that way. But I would not recommend doing play it like
a remote item that points to another playlist isn't supposed
to have a remote item with a good if you don't, I mean,
because there would just be a whole mess. So I mean, you could
pull it off, but I would not recommend it.
Dave Jones: It could also be in podcast or wallet, I guess. They
could go claim their feed and then set the bit themselves
there
Adam Curry: was not the same as doing it to the Partner API.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is, as this I keep going back
to this idea of I don't want to make people dependent on things,
you know, like, I did it for the value for value, because it's
literally like nobody, nobody's ever going to do it. But we're
so I guess my trepidation was we're so close to the medium
tag. And it's such a simple tag that I feel like with a little
bit of like, you know, marketing or or, or, you know, selectively
applied pressure, that, that we might be able to flip out and
get somebody to just do this thing. Like, it is such a simple
thing to do. It's not an overwhelming hurdle to jump over
like it was with the right value tag where you had to learn
lightning and implement nodes and this kind of stuff. That's
true. That's true.
Adam Curry: I mean, I'm with you on that. I'm with you. I think
that's a whole bunch of things came in succession for me, where
I heard this really disappointing interview with the
interim CEO of Lipson saying, you know, well, market
conditions don't allow us to add any more namespace tags until
2024. I'm like, holy crap, how bad is it?
Dave Jones: That doesn't make that that's just weird. No,
maybe
Adam Curry: it was bullcrap. I don't know. Mark and also and
also, you know, we just, you know, we have these apps coming
online, but we have to proceed we have another problem or
another challenge, I should say. Is right now pretty much the
only feed generator that does this stuff is sovereign feeds.
So there's a whole nother issue. You know, and and we're well
it's not true. We the split kit kitten takes care of a lot of
it. I don't know So we're we're kind of we're almost in a
chicken in the egg situation, but we do have some eggs, I just
don't want to break them.
Dave Jones: But Alice is anybody publishing music on no agenda to
Unknown: the rubbish. But the problem is there's no medium
equals music without extending that in some manner.
There is
Adam Curry: what you say done.
Dave Jones: Oh, the lightning plugin does supplied an RSS feed
that allows you to set the music tag, I've got a couple bands set
up self hosted already peer tube, and you can listen to him
on ln beats, they show up properly, still need to do some
refinement on the mp3 information and encoding
optimally for audio only. But we're most of the way there,
Adam Curry: well, why don't we do this? Why don't we table
this. And, you know, fountain is definitely going to target
artists to, to onboard them. And, you know, for now, they'll
point towards, you know, whatever's there. So that would
be wave, Lake dystopia, self hosting, music side project,
which, you know, Steven B has open source, which is great, but
I really would recommend against anybody who is not prepared to
deal with all the logistics and legalistic of hosting music to
start a business with that, because that can be you know,
overbearing i i wouldn't do it. And then help here too. But I
mean, just when maybe what you say is marketing, which we're
really good at?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah.
Adam Curry: We're great at marketing. Maybe we just let the
market well, we just let the market ride and see how wave
like does, I'm just impatient, honestly, I just see this whole
universe of people who want to, we want to do it, and we just
have to go find him.
Dave Jones: But when fountain that's the thing is we're fat
fountain is where the Bitcoin people live, is like that's,
that's where they're going to live for. So when fountain comes
out on that side of thing, and when fountain comes out of the
gate, with with support for this, then people will
understand what's required. And that that really may move some
blockers on the needle Samba, if we wait until if we will wait
and see. If it doesn't move the needle very much, then we can
always do the shim and just say, and just let everybody know from
the beginning, hey, this is very temporary, please understand
this is gonna go away as soon as there's as soon as we have, you
know, more than one player here, right? I mean, like, we could
just be very upfront and say, Please don't depend on this
being around for the next 10 years.
Adam Curry: or anything for that matter. What right might not be
around for 10 more years, it'll be almost 70 Are you kidding me?
I'll tell you what, we have a lot to talk about with with Alex
and Don about the peer to plugin about the stuff you guys are
doing with streaming and I actually have a couple questions
myself as it pertains guy and I'm delighted to hear that the
plugin will do. Man Don, you are making a lot of noise brother.
Sorry. public shaming, just like who is that? I'm looking at the
meters like it's done. Should we play this? We played the
requested song first just so we can get the scissors out of the
way. Let me see if this is the split kit works. Let's play a
song so people can even understand what we're talking
about. Yeah, now let's do it. Alex, you wanted to tell us
about your choice I chose right in progress. Although uh now I'm
kind of sad because you actually mentioned the other guy there
with the techno song.
Unknown: Oh, that's well that's okay. Yeah, there is a I heard
this and it reminded me as the first or second time I was on
the show, when you were playing Rage Against the Machine in the
pre show and it just gave me the kind of vibe so that's why I
picked it.
Adam Curry: Well, for those of you who are listening if you are
not listening in pod friend or curio caster and perhaps pod
verse, please switch for this and boost these guys after the
fact or go back and listen to the show again, because it
really makes a difference when when musicians see Satoshi
showing up and they start to get value it really sparks something
and gets them really excited. So here we go. Hopefully everything
switches automatically I now have activated the riot in
progress. Value block by request. This is heads up a
podcasting 2.0
See
Unknown: always do
Adam Curry: face
Unknown: it again
right to see this through the live show no to it again
Dave Jones: ACL is being used you?
Adam Curry: RIGHT IN PROGRESS heads up here on podcasting 2.0
that works quite well and split kid automatically defaults back
to the podcast or block after the song is over Nice.
Dave Jones: Oh yeah cuz it ended immediately like the artwork
went back
Adam Curry: that is sexy man I liked that and I was looking at
the heli pad and Steven B was boosting from the split kit even
though I didn't publish anything so I guess he knew but I guess
he knows how to get that and it comes in as heads up so it shows
me the title yeah that's very cool and I saw you boosted Dave
Dave Jones: I did nice the Eric PP has been making pull requests
on Hello Pat he's he's changing some stuff so Oh, yeah, I'm
really appreciative of that. He's He's going in there he's
he's making the making things better.
Adam Curry: I am I'm by the way I'm taking suggestions for the
name of the music show. Oh, if anyone has any boosts that to
me. And I'm going to get started pretty soon I'm probably going
to start before fountain comes out so I can kind of get my feet
wet and get it going and I'm not quite sure I'm going to have an
idea of what I want to do but I I want to do a variety of music.
And not in you know, not just the wavelength top 10. But
there's other stuff I want. And I actually I'd love to be able
to get music from all different hosts. So everyone gets a little
piece of the action, a little piece of the fun. So it'll be
like podcasting. 2.0, for value for value music.
Dave Jones: Are you? So are you going to do this? What What kind
of schedule Are you going to be on? You're just going to do it
whenever you get enough stuff in the hopper, I'd like to,
Adam Curry: I'd like to do it weekly. But my rule is always
you got to do it weekly, you got to do it more or less the same
day more or less the same time? That's, that's what I'm hoping
for. Because I need more podcasts in my life.
Dave Jones: To date. I mean, daily source code was not
regular for a long time. And you still had tons of listeners.
Yeah, that's
Adam Curry: true. That's true. But I and I considered just
resurrecting daily source code. But that feels wrong. For some
reason. Just this is new. This is a new thing. It definitely
won't be daily that will just confuse people. It always did.
Yeah. Anyway, I'm excited. I'm very excited about this stuff.
And it's going to unleash a whole new category of
podcasting, podcast hosts will, will want to be a part of this.
And I would say, you know, look at Sovereign feeds for an
example or split kit. Really, we're really just integrate with
split kit. I mean, that thing is it's pretty mature. I mean, it
takes a minute to figure it out. But it's got groovy icons, and
you know, it's got a it's got a real UI that you know, that.
Yeah, makes sense. And it integrates with the index for
the music that's available a minute and for for someone who
just wants to do a music podcast, or other things. It's
it's in there. So maybe they would only have to really
integrate with split kit. Just take those parameters for your
remote valid remote item, I guess. Is that is that the way
it works?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. And we, in order to make this more
palatable. For apps, though, we need some sort of solution for
this socket issue.
Adam Curry: Well, that's for the live stuff for the live stuff.
Right? Yeah,
Dave Jones: man. But I mean, that's, I feel like a live event
I live is a big component of this. Oh, you're gonna have a
lot of people want to listen live?
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's where you get the boost to? Yeah, if
you if you really want to do some value for value, you do it
live. People love live shows. It's just the fact they love it.
They love the pew pew, which I turned off during the songs.
Hello.
Dave Jones: Alex, what? Like, do you have any? Do you have any
strategy for that on no agenda tube as far as like how you're
going to communicate, you know, changes with the with the value
time split? I guess just WebSocket? Or what are your
thoughts there?
Unknown: Yeah, we'll probably so Stephens got a experimental tag
in his in the sovereign feeds feed already. It's like live
values. I don't remember what it is exactly. But it's, it's using
the Socket IO, Socket IO protocol. And we'll probably
just get together I've been going back and forth with him,
since he started will probably just document that schema and
implemented in in the same way. So and that would be done via a
plugin either either donkey with lightning, or I'll probably make
a podcast in 2.0 plug into for some separate functionality. So
Dave Jones: how do you do this? The question really, I guess,
for for both of you had, how do you figure out when you have a
when you have a function out late? So let me try to explain
this so that people understand and then you can correct me if
I'm wrong. And then I'll ask my question. The peer tube is a is
a sort of is a core, it provides a bunch of core features and
then everything additional, like RS like RSS feeds for
podcasting, 2.0 and the lightning value, boosting that
Don did all those things. It's all plugins. So you write a plug
in to add a new feature on top is this pretty straightforward?
explanation?
Unknown: Yeah, yes or no, for the most part, without getting
too technical, I had to add to upstream the RSS changes we did
for the podcast RSS feature for peer tube because that modifies
some core functionality. But what I did it in the process was
I made it I get I give I give plugins the ability to modify
the fields and add extra features to which is how Dan's
lightning plugin is adding the value blocks.
Dave Jones: Okay, so that's what you upstreamed is the ability
for plugins to make those changes.
Unknown: Yeah, along with it with a default podcast RSS feeds
that has the medium Miko video and in the live items for live
stream. Okay, so
Dave Jones: now with so let me see if I understand. So starting
with Pierre to version 5.2. The default RSS feed that you get is
a better quality feed, and it's got the median in there.
Unknown: Yep, it's got the medium, it's got a live item,
it's got alternate enclosures, which will probably expand upon
a lot. It's also got the activity palette for cross F
comments. So it's got the, it's got all the basics, you need to
talk about packaged application.
Dave Jones: That's excellent. So when you have a situation like
that, like, like, Don, when you're looking at it thing like
the remote, like value time split? How do you figure out
whether that's going to be a, you know, something that you put
into your plugin? Or if there's overlap with some other plugin?
And like, is it just a crapshoot? Or how do you figure
out how to put that in?
Don Kimberlin (Errhead): I usually just try to implement it
first, myself. And then if somebody else better implemented
I move over to there and implementation. Yeah, but the
lightning plugin, I put in my own RSS feed so that it would
work better with podcasting 2.0. And then Alex's upstream changes
came in and I was able to just move that into there. So we can
start with a plugin and the slower process for the upstream
changes eventually will subsume it.
Adam Curry: Dave, maybe you can just explain to people who are
new to this exactly what peer tube is when you because you've
been I mean your knees deep in this and and I've only scoffed
at it. Because I love because I love now I'm just not a video
guy. But um, now I'm seeing that there's a lot of cool stuff we
could do with this not just video, obviously, but just
explain what's going on with it, what the experimentation has
been and where we're at. And so then you can plug in Don and
Alex in that conversation.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, I'll just I'll give a nice deep in
using it. There, you know, Alex's knees deep in actually
doing the work to get the podcast in 2.0 stuff in there.
But I it like me peer to peer tube is open source, self hosted
video, you can spin up a peer tube instance and high level
overview here, spin up a peer tube instance. And self host
videos for multiple users. I mean, it's basically YouTube at
a bar,
Adam Curry: what do you need to self host? What what are the
requirements?
Dave Jones: I mean, just out of the box, all you need is a
server. But then if you have if you are going to do it in a sort
of a better, like more efficient way you would do it like an
Alex, you can explain this, you have your setup. You could you
can offload your HLS chunks to object storage in and do it
better like that. It's sort of like having the peer tube, the
peer to software does the transcoding. And the UI delivery
and that sort of thing. But then the the content is coming from
somewhere else sort of like the fee sort of like serving RSS
feed comes from the hosting company. But maybe the enclosure
comes from some other CDN can you get is that fair? Alex?
Unknown: Yeah, and that's that's really for when you get into
larger instances, like no agenda to where you have a lot of users
and a lot of video, you need to start doing a lot of that. But
if you're just doing this on your own, you're just using a
small, probably two core gigabyte RAM VM. And you're good
luck to mine. Yeah, yeah, even for live streaming, it's where
if you want to do like, if you want multiple resolutions when
he lies to me, alternatively p 720. P, then you need a lot more
horsepower. And I spin up a new VM every time every time a new
live stream starts. So that's technically costly, but you
don't need that on your own. And the idea is to build the tools
make it easy for people to self host. So right now if you want
to do live streaming, no peer tube, you just spin up a peer
tube server and then install the pod ping plug in which I have
which just does the piping that cloud integration and then if
you want a live chat in the next version of live chat plugin that
will be available in the RSS feeds and then if you want
basically super chat support Velious really support you and
the lightning plugin
Adam Curry: Alright, so is this something that I can set mo up
on because he's been wanting to migrate away from YouTube Live
and have all the same functionality obviously with the
with the booster grams as as the super chat functionality? Can he
just point me set up an account point stream yard to no agenda
tube and what else does he need? Does he just need a lightning
address that to make it all work?
Unknown: Yeah, lightning I mean, nobody's obviously isora
particularly works with you on node two. And Don can speak more
to that. But yeah, that's all you should work with anything
that produces RTMP. Which stream yard does. So yeah, we're fine.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I set up a guy with a live streaming system
with a $50 a year. EPS, it doesn't take much nowadays. Oh,
Adam Curry: nice. And now with the with these streams, this is
one of the big things. Can you rewind? Can you go back and or
start at the beginning? Can you do that kind of stuff?
Unknown: None. Yeah, it would break some of the ways it does.
Peer to Peer bandwidth sharing, which, honestly, if you turn on
low latency doesn't matter anyway, which I think a lot of
people are going to do. But if you haven't, if you haven't
saved the VA, then it will save it just like on YouTube, and
then on the RSS feed as well. So.
Dave Jones: So, Alex, when you're the peer, that's the part
that's one part that I that I didn't attempt to describe as
the peer why it's called peer to peer to peer part of it. That's
is that's done through Web. Web torrent. Is that right?
Unknown: It's a modification of web torrent. So it's okay. Well,
yeah, yes, I'll just say yes. Because it's complicated.
Dave Jones: I guess you don't really have how often do you get
the benefit of that? I mean, in the real world, you would only
really
Unknown: get it if you're having if you start getting hundreds or
1000s of people. At that point, yeah, you may or may not be
interacting with a child much anyway.
Dave Jones: That p2p only really kicks in if there's a lot of
people watching at the same time, which is mainly live. The
peer to node is what really helps with the stored videos. So
if you're watching it, no agenda tube animated on no agenda tube,
you're getting like one eight, that video data from no agenda
tubes, object storage, and the rest is coming from other peer
tube servers that are sharing that redundantly.
Unknown: Cool. Yeah, and just to explain some numbers here, when
you talk about live streaming, I think I did some numbers for
Dave, the other day, we were talking about Bitcoin in
Amsterdam, if we were to do a traditional attendee to p stream
would be like 6000 kilobits per second. That's roughly 4000
users without any p2p bandwidth sharing. But what do they say?
That'd be like, $15 an hour? Or something like
Dave Jones: that? 1350, I think is what you said.
Unknown: Yeah. So the cost isn't as high as it used to be. That's
what Linode object storage costs. So it depends on their
layer a
Dave Jones: little bit higher. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Yeah. But,
so just looking at the service, that is no agenda tube. How do
you have the setup? So if someone wants to use no agenda
tube for live, but also for the recorded stuff that stays up
there or live in his later, retrievable through recorded? Do
you have a put yourself in that value block immediately? Or by
default, so that, you know you're getting? You're getting
some some value for the service? What is the I mean, I know
you're doing because you just love doing it. But then if
someone really wants to make this into a service, what do you
have set up for that?
Unknown: Yeah, by default, using Don's plug in every feed, I know
generative has a I think it's 20%. But for no genyoutube Right
now, which is probably high, but we don't really get anything
anyway right now. So I'm going to lower that to if if I believe
it kicks off, but I'm also considering having a separate
service that isn't free for everybody. So
Dave Jones: yeah, that probably makes no probably makes sense to
because it means that whole thing of whenever you kick off
something that's free for free forever, you know, open
registration, that kind of thing is just such
Adam Curry: everybody always wants. They all want. Once free.
Unknown: We disable open registration, was it last year.
So now now you have to request an account. So it's not just
something that's good.
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah. Well, I haven't heard back from the
email Chris over at MC one Amsterdam, with the specs we
talked about, and just I was going to get back in touch with
him, but he hasn't emailed me back. So I don't know about that
one yet. But I mean, as far as like it at that level, and with
I think he said, you know, they're expecting roughly 1000
online streams. I mean, that's, that's really not too. That's
really not too bad. I mean, that's doable. From that's what
that's I guess what I'm trying to say is that that's within
almost everybody's conference budget. Have something of that
scale?
Adam Curry: Yeah. And if you're doing a conference, you're
turning on high latency, you're doing as much bandwidth sharing
as you want. Because you're interacting. Yeah.
Dave Jones: That's true. Yeah, that's true. Talk about that,
too, because you, you have the you have XMPP. Now, in the, in
the in the rooms, is that still only on my room as an
experiment? Or is that everywhere?
Unknown: That is on all of nogen YouTube live streams. But it's
done through the through live chat plugin. Through a lovely
French developer. I think his name is John. And he's adding
support for the RSS feeds in his next version as well. So with
any, anyone who who live streams will have that automatically
under generative and
Dave Jones: we need to finalize that then.
Unknown: Yeah, yeah.
Adam Curry: What apps what? That of course, the using the web
page works perfectly fine. What? What apps currently work well,
with with the peer tube stuff for video.
Unknown: The only one that I know that works is pauvres
Dave Jones: against guru works to Alex.
Unknown: Okay. Yeah. catches it needs. It needs support HTTP
Live Streaming? which not many do because they don't do video.
So and then I don't even think Padre supports the podcast chat
tag yet. Okay, so you basically have to go to the website if you
want to interact.
Dave Jones: I spoke to Jason every podcast guru the other
day. And he, he's, he's totally on board with, with, with XMPP.
And like to put that in, and they they also support video
which they, they they don't get. They fly under the radar a lot
because they they just came on board with the value for value,
but they have they have video support. And they're, you know,
that's a good that's a good podcast out. So you know, that's
I want to make sure they get the credit they deserve because
they're they're really doing a lot of stuff over there.
Unknown: Let's check it out.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so we'll have to, we'll have to formalize. I'm
just making a note, we need to go and formalize the chat tag,
because it's not a complicated tag. I mean, it's basically just
social interact with a couple of different attributes. Yeah, I
Adam Curry: realize I've been telling so many people on no
agenda, like, oh, you get everything in these apps. Go
ahead. And but there's no chat. The only one has chat is curio
Kassar, I guess, to pod versus chat as well.
Unknown: I think it does the old version, not the new version.
Adam Curry: What's the old version?
The that was the attribute on the live version tag. Okay, so
what I'm using I think you're using both now. He's just so
I'm, I'm by?
Yeah, well, go ahead.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I was just gonna say Nathan G asked in the
chat. He said didn't someone mentioned switching to
broadcasting that alongside the ice cast brokers? So what? Let
me just talk about that for a second. Because we spoke with
Jason, about that the other day when that puck has guru, and I
was telling him, we're talking about life support for socket,
you know, the socket, the whole socket thing? Yeah. And I was
like, Well, you know, we've discussed putting embedding that
stuff into the ice cast dream, or whatever the, you know, HLS,
or whatever, trying, trying to do this stuff in stream instead
of out of band. And he, his response to me was that, at
least on the Android side, and I'm assuming this is probably
true on the iOS side as well, that that that extracting data,
arbitrary data out of that out of a stream, a media stream, is
very difficult. He said he's done it once in the past. And
what he had to do was create basically a local host on
device, a local host, proxy, oh, then and so that he gets first
hit so that he gets first dibs, to parse the stream. Extract the
data. Yeah, and then pass it and then re re host hit, essentially
to the local to the app, and he said it's just a complete mess.
Do I keep
Adam Curry: forgetting pod fans and all the stuff we're talking
about? I think I have the thing that pod fans has everything
working
Dave Jones: properly probably says so. So Sam submitted a PR
this morning and it's literally every tag.
Adam Curry: tech guy so amazing. He defends value for value like
like, like a warrior. I'm doing it I really love Sam for that.
Dave Jones: Me too. The only thing we have. The only thing we
need for pod fans. I think they're really dependent on this
and we probably need to talk about is the authorization tag.
Yeah. For onboarding there. Yeah. In in trying to get that
done. I was in the chat in the discussion thread this morning
on it trying to get that.
Adam Curry: Mother, she's at the GitHub GitHub threat thread that
I stay away from. Yes, it is. Yes. Yes. Dangerous for my
health. I missed the email addresses, it was so easy. Just
want to say that's all I'll shut up about it. I missed it. I
didn't need enhanced private privacy. I was fine.
Dave Jones: The. So yeah, I've got to basically write something
up. That's more formal for this. Here's the way this here's the
way this this works. Just to run through it again, because
there's seems to be this. There seems to be this
misunderstanding. Got, I don't want to call it a
misunderstanding. maybe I'm misunderstanding. So I'm just
going to throw this out there. There seems to be this, this
thing that comes back that these this flow can be intercepted.
And so just just for the record, here's here's what we have. So
far. There is an authorization tag, that would happen in the
feed. So I'm going to, I'm going to in in this in this scenario
that I am about to lay out, we're going to say that the
hosting company is RSS blue, in the app is pod fans. So RSS
blue, publishes a feed. And the owner, the podcaster, who owns
that feed is going to claim that feed on pod fans. Pod. So
there's an authorization tag that RSS Blue has put into that
feed with a URL pointing back to the location on the web that
they are going to do the authentic the the verification
of the verification app. So this thing may be verification dot
RSS blue.com. The pod fans sees that URL. Kick when when the
podcaster says I'm going to I'm going to verify this Dammit, I'm
the owner of this feed, pod fans, kicks, pod fans server
creates a nonce, a one time code attaches to that URL as a query
parameter and redirects the the podcaster to that page at our
says blue bar says blue receives the parses out that query
parameter and and also the feed you're on needs to be attached
to that as well. So another there would be another parameter
on there with the with the feed URL, or Gu ID or whatever. So
now RSS blue knows. Okay, I've got a token. And I've got a
random token. And I've got the feed URL. A verify the feed URL
is one of our feeds. Yes, that is it is. And now I'm going to
force the user to log in with a username password. They
authenticate with their username and password proving to RSS
blue. They are the one who is the owner of the feed, parses
blue sees that in pops up, sees that there was a successful
login pops up a thing that says a pod fans is trying to wants to
authenticate you as the owner of this feed. Do you want to do
this? Yes or no? Yes. Barr says blue now takes the token that
pod fans sent to it in the query parameter. Places that into the
feed into tech into the podcast TXT record invalidates the cache
and republishes the feed with the with the token in it and
kicks them back to pod fans. And then podcast pod fans begins to
pod fans sees that they've come back with a success message.
Paul M stars polling the feed and once they see their token
pop up in the feed. They say okay, verification is
successful. This is the same essential process that happens
with DNS verification for domain ownership. We do this all the
time. When you when you go and create in and claim ownership of
a domain. Let's just gonna say you're migrating your business
to office 365. You're gonna go through this exact same process.
Sometimes it's manual. Other times they have an integration
with with a with DNS registrar's, and you can you can
automate this but this is essentially the same function.
So I'm not I'm sure I can. I can't see any danger here. M M.
M, I guess my question is, am I missing something? Because the
the this can get hacked things seems to be coming back. And I'm
like, where? Where's the hack happening?
Adam Curry: Oh, so unique is no one said.
Dave Jones: Well, Mike Hayden at Red Circle said it could be and
I thought James was saying that too but I miss maybe I'm
misunderstanding. I don't know Now could it be fished? For
sure, but everything can be fished. Yeah, I mean like, you
know, unless you have two factor authentication like you can if
you have a man in the middle scenario, you can get fished all
day long, but I'm not. But we're we've got to set that aside
because that's not we're not we're not solving that here.
This is a I'm talking about like, Could I don't understand
if there's something I'm missing in please somebody tell me if
there is.
Adam Curry: All I'm hearing is some people saying Why don't you
just do Oh auth which I have no idea, which is easier
Dave Jones: to see Oh, office, if people want to do Oh auth
that's fine. But we don't need to write a spec for that. But if
people want to do Oh off, if, if let's just say if rss.com wants
to do Oh off the go. I mean, like they can just go do that.
And then they can just say here's how we're going to pick
they can publish that themselves and say, here's how we're going
to do it. If you want to verify here, you can do it. And maybe
other hosts adopt that same format? I don't know. But that
oh auth is an established mechanism already. Right? My
problem with OAuth is really just that it leaves it leaves a
small hosting out of the picture, because you have to be
able to host Reuter to support a no authentication mechanism, you
have to be able to support an OAuth flow. And you can't do
that if you're using sovereign feeds or WordPress, you know,
that's not available to you, right, I
Adam Curry: can just, I can just put it into the appropriate
field. And I can put the token into the appropriate field in my
feet, and it would work to Right.
Dave Jones: Right. And with the authorization flow that I
described earlier, what what can happen is you can say, all
right, there's an all three pot fans could make this decision.
Pot fans could do this, it could say, I see an authorization tag
in your feed. Therefore, I'm going to kick you over to auth
to verify at the at the hosting company. Or I don't see an
authorization tag in the feed. Therefore, I'm just going to
give you the token and you can go put it in yourself. Like it
doesn't change their flow very much they can support both very
easily. See, Nathan said I think they were concerned that pod
fans would permit the podcaster to claim the feed just by
visiting the URL redirecting back to pod fans without waiting
for the token to appear in the TX T tech. Yeah, but that that's
they would. That's bad. They don't need to do that. Right.
Yeah, they know they just getting this a success message
doesn't that's only half the flow. You can't skip. Right. The
authorization part. Yeah.
Adam Curry: All right, let's Let's just touch on a few others
that might know that everybody's asleep. And we just touched on a
few other things. Loving transcribe.fm Which who set that
up again?
Dave Jones: Nathan? Nathan Yeah, gathright.
Adam Curry: hurting a little bit because of the speaker support
issues. Because man, I don't want to screw up Martin's pod
friend the way he's implemented, you know, the person tag in the,
in the transcripts. And so we know almost no matter what I run
it, it confuses me with multiple speakers. It doesn't it's
apparently it's a lot more challenging to identify speakers
consistently than I thought. Cuz I really love the speed of the
service is outrageous. I mean, I'm waiting sometimes for an
hour for a no agenda transcript to finish. And, and then, you
know, with the, with transcribe.fm It's like, it just
is done so fast. But, you know, it's I've been trying to find a
predictability in it, but it's just not there yet. Is that I
didn't know. Is that an AI issue we need to look at.
Dave Jones: I don't I mean, I would is, is the speaker
recognition. Is that just slow it down? Is that what they don't
do? I don't
Adam Curry: know. I don't know. It's I mean, I'll tell you what
otter.ai they transcribe and then you have to wait after the
transcriptions on you have to wait Wait for it to do the it
does the speaker stuff later.
Dave Jones: Okay, so that must be Yeah, it must be. It must
Adam Curry: be hard. I mean, it slows down. But I mean, it's not
accurate. That's the problem. It's not accurate.
Dave Jones: Alex, what do you think about like? I don't? Do
you think there's, it's possible to do transcription like a
transcription plugin and peer to?
Adam Curry: I think there already is one. I just don't
know how
Dave Jones: there is one slight. I tested it, it did not work
well on podcasts longer than like, 1020 minutes. And the
results were really inaccurate. But they're working on it. And
it should be coming along better hopefully.
What Don? Do you know, like, was that running on server? Or was
that calling out somewhere else?
That was running on server, it downloaded everything it needed
and ran it directly on the server? That was part of why it
was having trouble.
Yeah, I guess you're on CPUs at that point. Yeah, that sounds
like Yeah, sounds messy. It because that would be really
mean not to do real time. But I mean, just to be able to have
that in the feed after the fact that would be pretty, that'd be
pretty killer. Or, you know, like, I could envision a plugin
where you have the ability to call out to different services,
like you could call out to transcribe that FM or you could
call that the otter, whatever service you wanted to use, you
know,
Adam Curry: hey, that's where the podcasts or plugin comes in.
I've just from, from what I understand sovereign feeds will
have a way to just be you know, it'll just work. It'll, it'll
talk to transcribe.fm and pop it back. And then it just kind of
there.
Dave Jones: Yes, pretty. That's, that's a rad idea.
Adam Curry: I just, I just, I really don't want to do away
with the, with the speaker tags. Because that's so cool. And pod
friend, I think other people will do that. Looks so good. The
little, little chat, chat bubbles with our heads. Yeah,
it's really it's a fun experience. Just look at like,
wow, I can hear these guys speak. And I can see their
heads. It's I don't know, it's something hypnotizing about it.
Dave Jones: In the the person tag admission, talk to Oscar
about that the other day. That's, that needs to be in
there as well. Like, yeah, that needs to be a higher, a more
broadly supported tag on the on the app side, because still, I
don't see very many apps. Showing that information. And,
you know, Mark Martin uses it to great effect with with the
transcription and putting it right there prominently on the
podcast page. I mean, that's a, that's a pretty killer little,
you know, tag to just ignore, I wish more people would suck that
in.
Adam Curry: That's what she said. Hey, I have two more
things on my list here. The one is just because you know, I do
the triage on info dot podcast index.org. I have been enjoying
the API Dashboard. Thank you very much.
Dave Jones: I've had a fixed a couple of things in there, too.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I tried to reset someone's feed and it
didn't really do anything. Or maybe there's no real way for me
to know if a reset is done properly. And I don't know,
people do show up and they just they just throw stuff out there
like this, this that. Right, wrong. You know, it's like, oh,
man, I really do think I'm a mind reader. So I'm not always
sure that I'm doing the right thing for people but I have I
have, you know, nuke defeat or two. And I be I think James had
a, something that I just blindly trusted him like, Okay, I'm
nuking that feat. Because you said so.
Dave Jones: Yes, I saw that. Yeah, keeping
Adam Curry: this one. But I love it. I love I love it. Other than
just some feedback stuff. I'm not quite sure if if
everything's working properly, but I'm happy, happy to have it.
Some dude named Josh showed up and he I just want to read his
note. He says, Thanks for this awesome project. I'm attempting
to create a neural network based ad blocker for podcasts, your
database is invaluable sources, annotate training data, like why
that's interesting. I don't know if I'm a fan of that. But I
guess you could use it for that. Well, you know, why would you
want to block podcast ads? Just as a as a as a philosophical
thing.
Dave Jones: You can you can just hit the skip button. Yeah.
Adam Curry: That's what everybody does. We all know it.
Everybody does it.
Dave Jones: You just skate read through those jokes. Yeah.
Adam Curry: And I want to mention that I heard something
very well, not concerning, I think is the dumbest business
decision I've ever heard. Spotify. See Since they know
they're scrambling for revenue, clearly, Spotify Premium min,
but members can no longer pay via Apple's App Store. Because
they, you know, they, they don't want to give up the 30% cut the
the App Store tax. So people's premium subscriptions will just
expire. And they're hoping everybody will sign up again
through their own system@spotify.com with a credit
card or PayPal, I'm thinking you're going to be very sorry,
you're doing this. I don't think I don't think a lot of people
are going to do that it'll be such an opportunity to not re
up. Is that just me?
Dave Jones: Man? I don't there has to be this stuff like this
has to happen. There has to be market movement away from apple,
the apple walled garden of 30%. That that tax day. There has to
be because my understanding was they were charging. So it's like
non is like nine bucks a month if you if you went and
subscribed directly on their site, but it was like 12 bucks a
month. If you subscribed with Apple Pay because of the tax.
Adam Curry: Same same thing that Twitter did, I guess? Yeah.
Which is another mess. Because people are the things are
changing very quickly around us all these models of payments.
They're all breaking.
Dave Jones: They are breaking. I don't know if you saw this. This
was very interesting to me. Perhaps the most interesting
thing that flew under the radar, the heard of a company called
Media math. No, I have not. medium medium medium math file
for bankruptcy. The demand side platform medium math file for
Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in Delaware. On Friday, the
company owes between 100 million and 500 million to between
209 199 companies including Google Macknight, open X
PubMatic, Zander, and ads Wiz and I know ads Wiz is a big
company like digital marketing company that's that does podcast
stuff.
Adam Curry: What does MediaMath do?
Dave Jones: It says they're a demand side platform. I think
that means they're one of the bit they add digital ad bitter,
like DSP platforms, where, where the bidding takes place. For
digital, like a service, like where there's like this dynamic
auction system at ad surf time. If I'm not mistaken, this is
their valuation. Let's see. They had raised like $600 million or
something. And then now they just went out of business and
they still owe like hundreds of millions of dollars to companies
they just vanished.
Adam Curry: So they owe it to all the ad companies who were
serving ads that they basically were Booking and Scheduling for
the advertisers.
Dave Jones: That's right, it says the bankruptcy will have a
wide ranging effect on the advertising technology industry
with many well known companies being owed more than a million
dollars. The top five include Macknight at 12 Point 6 million
PubMatic at 10 million snowbee at five never
Adam Curry: even heard of these companies. Are these the
companies that just snooping on me and throwing ads up
everywhere.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and ads with 3.4 million Yeah. Wow. This
feels like the whole ad serving DSP digital. Yuck. Is like about
to blow up.
Adam Curry: Sorry, I'm laughing
Dave Jones: No, I mean, it's hilarious. Wow, I mean,
Adam Curry: this whole thing is falling apart, man.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, Nathan. Nathan says a programmatic ad
bidding platform Sirius XM owns ads with AD Wiz and MediaMath
owes them three and a half million dollars. Oh, yay. This
thing is about to blow up.
Adam Curry: That's not good. What's this clip you got here?
Do you thought this was the
Dave Jones: new this is the new FTC influencers guidelines. This
is like they released this a few days ago. They're cracking down
on social media influencers. That on how they have to
disclose their sponsorships. And in advertising.
Adam Curry: I thought you already had to do that. I
thought I thought that was like a prerequisite that you had to
let people know.
Dave Jones: They did. But the guidelines were vague. So now
they've like beef them up and give him some juice. You wanna
you want to listen to this nice young lady explained it to him
of course.
Unknown: Hi, I'm Amber Lee. Attorney. Mission.
Adam Curry: Okay, this is my attorney. Shoot, I'd fire her
for that voice. You can't represent me You don't sound
like a bulldog.
Unknown: Hi, I'm Amber Lee, an attorney at the Federal Trade
Commission. Do you recommend or endorse things on social media?
If you do, here are some tips to help influencers like you
comply. With the law, whenever you endorse a product, you have
to tell people if you have a relationship with the brand. So
if a brand pays you, or gives you free stuff or discounts Wow,
tell people about that relationship. When you promote
anything from that brand. Make sure people will see and
understand that disclosure. Tell people about your brand
relationship along with your endorsement, not in your
profile, not in a bunch of hashtags. But it early in the
message or superimposed prominently on the picture. In a
live stream, it should be repeated often enough that
people will catch it, make it plain and simple. You can say
your post is an ad advertisement, or sponsored with
or without a hashtag. You can say thank you to the brand for
the free product. If the product is all you got. Or you could
label yourself a partner or ambassador. Again, make sure to
put your disclosure where people can't miss it. Want to know more
about how you can be an influencer and stay on the right
side of the law? Go to ftc.gov/influencers.
Adam Curry: Wow. So if you're an advisor to accompany you need to
disclose that too, I guess.
Dave Jones: Yeah, there's a bunch of they have this like
what we call like a fac that tells you, here's what you need
to do under certain circumstances. Like, it's like,
Can I do this? No, can I do this, here's what you got to do.
So this was they'll see this guy ran it down, he says adding
adding hashtag or hashtag add or hashtag sponsor or similar
disclosure in the caption of a tick tock is not enough, it
needs to be overlaid in the video itself. D influencing
campaigns require disclosure. So you can't you can't talk down a
competitor. Oh, wow. Without disclosure, a post does not have
to mention anything positive about the brand to be considered
an endorsement. So this is like it says, simply posting a
picture of a product on social media such as Pinterest or a
video of you using it could convey even without words that
you like or approve the product and has to be disclosed. Foreign
creators may must also comply with the rules. If you review
many different products on your blog or social page, you need to
specifically disclose which content is sponsored in which
content is not. You cannot hide disclosures behind links, even
if the link says disclosure. Thank you, or thank you brand is
not enough, you must make it more prominent. Like there's
just a whole bunch of they like they're they're really they're
really cracking down and making you and forcing you to make it
like up front and center that you're doing that you're that
this is sponsored content. But the part that I love is that
this all leaves a gaping humongous loophole for
traditional media. Because all you have all you have to do in
order to get around that is you can you Right, right, before you
do a big ad buy. You just have a little bit of fun, nice jump on
the phone with somebody say, hey, yeah, we're gonna do that
ad buy. But we're, you know, we also, once you push to talk us
up a little bit, you know, on the before it like, see, you
could have, you could have essentially a native ad that was
never a continent was never contracted in imprint, or signed
on the dotted line.
Adam Curry: If I'm looking, I'm looking at what they're saying
that I'm not, I'm looking at their their rules.
ftc.gov/influenza. And, you know, even if it's a family
relationship, you've got to disclose it. I mean, so even if
you just have a phone call, you kind of got to disclose that.
Really? Yeah. And do you know how big this market is? I was
reading habit here from McKinsey, I guess McKinsey would
know something. Ads for apparel, to clothing are part of an ever
growing body of sponsored content that people consume
daily alongside regular video and social media posts. And they
are part of an influencer marketing economy that hits 16
point 4 billion this year.
Dave Jones: Whoa, that's so much bigger than I thought it was me
to me the entire music industry is what 5 billion?
Adam Curry: Well, we're chipping away at it. It's 4,900,000,000.
Dave Jones: I mean, that, wow. That's
Adam Curry: as big man.
Dave Jones: It's kind of shocking and
Adam Curry: that have to come after podcast pretty soon, too.
I mean, they're only talking about social media. But this
it's got to be the same. You have to have the same. The same
rules for podcasting, I would presume.
Dave Jones: Yeah. The word podcasting did not appear in any
of the new guidelines.
Adam Curry: No, of course not idiots. There's your loophole.
I'm doing a podcast.
Dave Jones: Well, there's your there's your A incentive for
other services to call themselves podcasts. or YouTube.
There you go. yourself a podcast. You're not a social
media influencer. You're a podcaster.
Adam Curry: Man. Yeah. So, so I need to ask, you know, what is
this? This peer tube? Is that a podcast? Because Todd Cochran
wants to know.
Unknown: I mean, technically, it's not an audio file in the
enclosure. Yeah. It's just a text file.
Adam Curry: A text file. Oh, man, I love those guys arguing.
It's so
Alecks Gates: that's what, that's why the medium title is
valid. Like, I see people who have things that they call
podcasts on YouTube and Oh, good. They're not always maybe
they have not really RSS feeds. But the medium is the podcast.
And then that's kind of where the whole idea started. Which is
why we're here today. I
Adam Curry: love that go medium tag.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's it's crazy. It's critically important
to go where we need to go.
Adam Curry: I'm with you, brother. Let's do this. Let's
thanks some people because we got been getting a lot of boost
coming in during this during this lit lit version of the
show. And I want to thank people appropriately. We have a white
mic is what he's called. A white mic booster to booster grams or
3333. I guess he's coming up with names for the for the show
true audio party, tap tap into the party to audio party with
redundant word party. But what but what did from pin number
apps all involving tapping in apps? Good work on it. Actually,
I wanted something like the boost bin or the boost box.
That's I was thinking along those lines. Of course none of
those domain names are available, so it kind of
precludes it. We've got our Davis 87 with 10,000 101 He says
music side project top 40 Friday night at Easter no agenda
stream.com Go podcast is that the new name? Yes, yeah, it's a
great one. Dave Jones 10,000 SATs went to the heads up per
track he actually said killer tracks so hopefully the ride and
progress band will receive that we've got Tom tomsky 777 Mini
striper boost split and music test. Go make music there Steven
B with 3333 doing that from the split kid heads up it's a live
music boost in the split kit. Nice promotion, cotton gin
posting 3333 Four right in progress. Let's see hardhat 3333
No note another 3333 from cotton gin 5000 from Steven be posting
for the song during the split kit for heads up Eric p p
33,333. Very nice. Yo OS we're using both music side project
and wave lake side by side makes it weird in podcasting apps to
feeds and cast thematic and others but this far MSP is
proven more popular. Well that's interesting. Blueberry with
11,111 and was able to conform the split kits were split kid
works with at least this many song and live chapter blocks.
He's got a link there. I think the final count was 21 that
included an intermission block with custom durations for our
mixes live GIF art changed seamlessly it was beautiful
Steven B. Yeah this split kid man Holy crap. Yeah, this this
something to me see what this what this link looks like with
this. Second one. Here we go. Let me see. Show me the split
kit value block because you can you when you when you do it. Oh
my goodness. Oh, that's hilarious. Hold on. I gotta put
that in the chat room. That's hilarious. Look at look at this
list. That is very cool. So this must have been that must have
been all songs then. I guess. Let me see. And I think that
song Holy crap. That's. That's a lot. stuffs working man. I love
that. We go to tone wrecker. Hola, 1333 Bookstagram two year
anniversary of July 7 is wild. Thank you to everyone putting in
the work and making the effort to make such progress. Of course
we love everybody has been doing that. We got Cole McCormick with
5492 What up live boost cotton gin with 3333 it br Thanks for
the pod ping help earlier. I don't know if you did that you
might have we've got Dred Scott boosting in the split kit.
22,222 very nice official rows. Super cool. Our Davis 87 again
boosting podcast and 2.0 for the tour of sausage making factory I
love the inside baseball field go poskitt podcasting episode
boost yesterday. Steven B II with the split kit which is a
boost for you Dave it says boost for date I think it went to your
node somehow
Dave Jones: what is it
Adam Curry: I don't know it just says Dave Jones so maybe just he
just put you in there I don't know what he's using but your
wallet receives something I'm sure boop donation to eight
double oh eight from I am Mr. Robot just noticed the animated
logo and fountain live for this episode definitely is the first
one I've seen would love to see it implemented more five by five
in the GIF. Yeah, that's our beautiful, our beautiful lit
arch which is indeed animated and works. We love it. Courtesy
of bloom of blueberry. Then we have anonymous who just before
we started the show decided to come in and do a massive baller
duck boost 20 222,222 boosting for when this is over by Ally
Mitchell so not entirely to us, but definitely give you $1 For
that Blaze only Impala beautiful Dred Scott with 1000 SATs and a
second Dred Scott with 123456 boosting for the boost busco
podcast Thank you shot 20 his blades on him very much
appreciate and that does it for our live boost except for the
one that might have just come in. Oh, there it is. Oh, boy.
Oh, of course. Darren O'Neal. 110,416 Satoshis. Hey, you need
a shouty voice rhyming sidekick for that new music show. Blaze
only Impala. We need a name first. Darren. That's what we
need. Get us a name. That's what we got to start with artwork is
hints of artwork and some jingles and yeah, we got a lot
to do. Yeah, but I'm pumped. I'm getting ready. I'm very excited
about it. Very excited about it.
Dave Jones: We got one. Baller Pay Pal. Oh, right. Yeah, we
did. From the boys@rss.com. Ben and Alberto, in the gang of
$555.
Adam Curry: Dude, thank you so much. rss.com. Man, keeping us
going appreciate that so much. Appreciate your
Dave Jones: location, location, location. Thank you, Adam, Dave,
and all other contributors to the location tag from your
friends@rss.com they released four tags supported now things
look better look this up. Location liasons episode and
season so they get there. They're coming on there and
they're rolling them out.
Adam Curry: Nice. Steven B just sent a suggestion. For name,
which I'm going to first see if it's available for I mentioned
it.
Dave Jones: Only send a send in boost. Boost form.
Adam Curry: Yeah, hold on. Let me see if it's available. What
do you think of boost bangers ball?
Dave Jones: I like it. I like boosts mayor's ball. That
Adam Curry: boosts bangers ball might be cute. We could also do
boosters ball but boost bangers ball kind of fits with me a
little bit although I want people to think it's only one
type of music. True boost bangers my wife registered it
just in case you never know. John the list even thank you
very much. Good one good idea.
Dave Jones: Let's see here. Okay, I guess Mr. Graham's Thank
you, Ben and Alberta. Appreciate you guys. Yeah, thank you. I
guess Mr. Graham's 3333 from harm head times to no note thank
you hard hat. Oh, there's Blueberry. Blueberry said oh, he
said he sent his animated GIF to me. Nice. Sorry. I couldn't get
his in before the show. No, no problem. I've I was gonna I was
gonna send him his 100k sat bounty and ran out of liquidity.
Oh, no. On your no guest index channel. So I had to. I didn't
have enough liquidity to send the whole thing so I didn't open
a new channel. But it seems that opens I'll send it this
afternoon. Joel ws central Richards. 1111. No note. Thank
you, Joe. Debbie. froze ear 25,000 SATs he says thank you.
Thank you. Ro ducks from anonymous. Thank you. No note on
that. 20 To 22 from UPS Chris. Oh, this is a UPS guy right UPS
Adam Curry: Chris? Oh, yeah. He gives us all the inside dirt on
the strike on the pending strike. Which by the way, if UPS
goes on strike, this is going to be a problem in America.
Dave Jones: Yeah, Mirka is going to cease to exist
Adam Curry: will be a problem.
Dave Jones: UPS Chris and 2222. And he says thank you for that.
Thank you, Adam for constantly telling the truth.
Adam Curry: My pleasure
Dave Jones: to see DS last and 777 He says I love These
meetings. You too are doing the Lord's work. Well, thank you
these last Expo RIT A resume XORESME xo XO Resnick so resume.
Adam Curry: Resume. I don't know.
Dave Jones: 10,000 says no, no, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
So resume, Chris from Jupiter. Jupiter broadcasting that Chris
Vickery says a monster satchel a huge satchel Richard, it has to
be huge to fit his social Richard 111111 fountain. Very
nice.
Adam Curry: Boost. Thank you. Beautiful
Dave Jones: boosting for that road duo talk. I'm also keeping
my eye on it near tax time.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I set up my whole duplicate system. I got
everything everything is now in duplicate. But you know, the duo
was 499 all the other stuff my MIDI keyboard by Yeah, I got
another mouse I got another mouse pad I got a regular your
wireless keyboard of course I hook it all into the what do you
call it into the surface, which I take on the road, which I also
updated. It's always fun when you open up a Windows machine
three months since the last time you use it. It takes about three
hours to update itself and all that crap that goes on. It's the
worst thing ever. And that cost like 150 bucks to do all that.
So my whole road kit is good to go. And I'm gonna be maybe I'll
test it next week. Just use the whole duplicate system. That duo
caster is some sweet sweet joy, man. I'll tell you.
Dave Jones: I'm beautiful. Get it? I'm gonna have to get it.
It's a
Adam Curry: beautiful box. And I'll give any if you want my my
settings, we're happy to send them to you.
Dave Jones: Yes, absolutely. I'm gonna have to get it because I
think I'm going to start a new podcast at some point. Oh,
Adam Curry: are we are we breaking up? Are you cheating on
me?
Dave Jones: No, this is an open relationship.
Adam Curry: I don't know if I'm poly? I'm not so sure. A poly
podcaster
Dave Jones: or you don't want to be in the lifestyle? No, I
Adam Curry: don't think so.
Dave Jones: No, this is not this is not that kind of fun. This is
a solo operation here. Oh,
Adam Curry: what are you going to do? When do you want to lift
a little tip of the veil?
Dave Jones: Oh, it's just it's nothing big. It's just something
to read a ton. tons of books like I just finished the
technological society by Chaka law. Great book, Fantastic book,
big book. And as I'm reading these books, I highlight a lot a
markup a lot. And I'm like, you know this. So take a deck of
book like the technological society. Very dense, very thick
book. Yeah, it's a lot to ask somebody. There's so much
information in there this valuable but it's spread out
through the whole book in little nuggets, you know, you don't you
don't necessarily want to have somebody want to ask somebody to
read 500 pages of a book in order to get like, you know, a
dozen good little chunks out of it. So I thought why don't I
just have like a little thing where when I hit one of those
chunks, just record just record it. Oh, and throw it into
podcast, no discussions, no book reviews, none of that just like
Adam Curry: I like that. Yeah, that's kind of what you do on
signal you send me little blurbs from from some of your books.
Dave Jones: Yeah and then like I could thread it like it's a way
to get through and hit the all the highlight the cliffnotes
version of a book in in Episode form over you know over a few
weeks
Adam Curry: into that I'd subscribe for sure. Count me in
count me.
Dave Jones: Well, I need to do I need a road caster do Oh,
Adam Curry: yes. Yes. Then count me in.
Dave Jones: Okay. Brian is bigger. 500 says that's a fun
song boosting Thank you Thank you. Be mozzie Brian mozzie
through fountains and it's 3333 says go podcasting podcast your
uncle Uncle Laurent sent us satchel Richards go podcasting.
Adam Curry: There you go. I'll do it.
Dave Jones: remake. remake. Rhema King. I don't know these
names. Remaking Oh, here it is remaking Eden. Oh yeah, remaking
Edison 5000 SATs no note that that one. Made my eyes crossed.
Jean been 4096 a 4k killer boost. Said they said the new
XMPP enabled boost bot that also post activity pub sounds really
nice. And he sent another 4096 Thank you. GMB. Alex. What
exactly have you done? What did you do with the with the boost
bot as you hooked it into the room on or the channel on no
agenda tube?
Unknown: Well, that's kind of the beautiful thing about XMPP
and activity buffers. It matters. You don't really hook
it into the room so much is you have an account that you connect
to the erection PP server and it will post it whatever room is in
the feed. So whenever a push comes in, it listens to l&d. It
finds the XMPP room and the chat tag and it posts to that room.
So that's all this.
Dave Jones: So you just you took, you can boost byte code
and just written in added that in there.
Unknown: And the benefit of that versus IRC is you don't need an
account on every IRC server. You just have one account
Dave Jones: Okay, and that's Ivan's code Yep. Python
Unknown: I don't think he's I believe it's running in his his
yet so we'll have to help him with that. Okay, so I run it
myself.
Dave Jones: Oh, killer awesome. We got Jean bean again with
10,000 says boosting the tunes and podcasting 2.0 from pod
verse while flying home for vacation. Oh, post 5000 SATs
from Nick it says good too and one of the better V for V tracks
as the 3333 from I love sushi says test boost from pod verse
we got you I love sushi. Bill Prague. Think he's a hot thing.
Bill's a hive guy. 5000 SATs they found he says not sure
about using about the using apps thing. Seen some apps kicked out
from the store because of crypto tipping option could be
important to have a good browser alternative. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah, we've we've thought of that and we're just
crossing our fingers and our legs.
Dave Jones: Yes, right. Anonymous 10,000 says he says
coupon coupon codes are bullshit. Okay, bad career
advice. Chad says hello Richards through Felton. He says boosting
for the protection of listeners from the homeliness of their
favorite podcasters on jump 13579 through pod verse he says
boosting from pod verse did it go through? Did it go to the
time value split boost it did it did it did? Yes sir twin screw
1893 through fountain no note Captain egghead 2222 through pod
verse no note Kyron 1000 sets he says testing in front of a BTC
meetup nice very cool. Those on episode 136 Good one card oh wow
I was podcast Kyron tu tu tu tu tu tu
Adam Curry: There you go three and one nice
Dave Jones: through found he says I truly believe that value
for value will change the world digital content creators of all
sorts music podcasts art written word in their audience are going
to learn why this is important. It's a win win for both sides.
Both feel better after the value exchange added a V for V
presentation at a Bitcoin meetup last night in the excitement is
palpable. When combined with programmable money, it is such a
is so killer. A cover the philosophy of this all in the
value for value podcast. Season Three is now lit. Oh, that's
right. He's
Adam Curry: right. Yes, yes. Yes. I'm sure you heard about
it. It was kind of interesting to see. Larry Fink douchebag
think ESG Fink of Blackrock on what was that? The Fifth of
July. So it was right after? Right after Fourth of July,
obviously, on on Fox Business. He was interviewed for about 15
minutes and he was just say he was singing bitcoins praises
Dave Jones: that the ETF thing I think is is a much. It's a big
deal. Well, it's actually a big deal.
Adam Curry: I mean, I don't know if that's good or bad or
whatever. But I have I think
Dave Jones: well, let me see. I don't know if you remember this
as well. That's a stupid thing to say. Of course you do you
remember all this stuff? The Z and I'm serious about that.
Because you remember you have a clip memory. That's crazy. Yeah.
Do you remember about a year and a half ago on this show? You
played a clip from Larry Fink talking about Bitcoin. And your
comment at the time was that you thought that these dudes like
him? Were in the background? building their own
Adam Curry: horse? Oh, no, in fact, think it was this one.
It's quite it's
Unknown: still a very small market. And it can move in very
large increments with small movements of money. And so it's
not a market for the for the for the calm. I understand the
enthusiasm.
Adam Curry: When you were talking about maybe
Unknown: the Murata. This asset category is so small relative to
other asset The category and the preponderance that is being
discussed on Bloomberg and other sources of media tells you that,
you know, people are fascinated about it. So I would say
Business Media believes it's going to have a huge future. But
but let's bring it down to the investor side, everyone is
focusing on it, it could be another store of wealth. But
right now, it's still untested, and has huge volatility and
moving and five and 6% increments with small dollars,
investments moving. And so for, for anything like that to be. To
be truly successful, it's going to have to have a broadening of
the market. And you could invest large sums of money without
moving the value. To the extent it's doing it. So we're watching
it, we're enjoying the conversation is my instinct, it
may some form of a of a digitized currency is going to
play a bigger role in the future and it may be in Bitcoin, or
maybe something else that has developed, but there is a
fascination and that fascination is really
Adam Curry: fun to watch. So that was June 24 2021. I have 45
seconds of him from this earlier this week. And also
I do believe the role of crypto is it is it's digitizing gold in
many ways. It's instead of investing in gold as a hedge
against inflation, a hedge against the onerous problems of
any one country or, or the, for the devaluation of your
currency, whatever country you're in. Let's be clear,
Bitcoin is an international asset. It's not based on any one
currency. And so it can represent a asset that people
can play as an alternative. I would call the foundation of
Blackrock is about hope. You invest for retirement because
you believe tomorrow is better than today.
That last bit means but whatever they say an international asset
like gold
Dave Jones: in that earlier that earlier thing, it's clear he
said we need to we need to, it could be a store of value. We
need a broadening of the market. That's what the largest that's
the ETF. I've seen ETF
Adam Curry: Yeah, well, at least is recognized as something real.
Yeah, we see it as real as real value.
Dave Jones: Borlaug. 10,001 sets the pod verse, no note, thank
you for log, and we got the delimiter comic strip blogger
30 3015 through founding says, howdy, Dave and Adam. Are you
seeking intelligent, provocative conversation on the topics
shaping our world? Dive into the unrelenting podcast, your weekly
enlightenment with hosts Jean from Texas and Darren from
Chicago area from sorry, they again, from politics to
technology and societal issues, they fearlessly tackle it all
delivering sharp insights and engaging debates. Find it at WWW
dot unrelenting dot show. Use USB boost boost boost
Adam Curry: CSV, man it's so nice. He's promoting all these
other podcasts and I think that's very commendable. Very
nice of him.
Dave Jones: Let's see. Did you get drips gots? 123456 I did.
Adam Curry: I did a few more that came in just now. Steven B
says boost bangers ball was cotton gins suggestion credit do
and then TJ the raffle 70,000 SATs. Thank you very much TJ
exciting music talk today I want to help even more but as a
recovering musician and struggling just to survive I'll
boost when I can. Everyone supporting and working on P 2.0.
V four v music Thank you see people excited.
Dave Jones: I don't know what this is a Boris Celski. He sent
this notice that you really want to go the kim.com path
Adam Curry: kim.com path. Oh, is that about influencer stuff?
Dave Jones: I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure what
he's talking about those decent 10,000 SATs but I don't know. I
don't
Adam Curry: know for sure. We got 1000 SATs from our Davis 87
book talk weekly with Dave Jones dynamite. There's your name book
talk weekly.
Dave Jones: book blurb not blur. But blur.
Adam Curry: Beautiful, beautiful.
Dave Jones: Oh, we get the monthlies. Yeah, we got it. We
got a few of those may run down. We'll see. We got Cameron Rose
$25 Thank you, Cameron. He's been with us for a long time.
Scott Jalbert $12 Chad Pharaoh. Thank you, Chad. $20.20 Mark
Graham. $1 new media that's Martin lindskog. $1 Thank you
Martin. Joseph maraca $5 Jeremy new $5 and Emilio Cano Molina $4
Adam Curry: Thank you all very much this is a value for value
product the entire project is value for value if you ever
wondering if this stuff works just sit here and listen to the
boosted gram and the donation segment it does people like to
support things that they're a part of they'd like to be a part
of the community and you can be they are with booster grams with
Fiat fund coupons as well we've got the chat room we've got the
you know the podcast index dot social this started from zero
from 03 years ago it's been three years three years now to
grow almost three years army you know in August okay so three
three years in August and it's not because of Adam curry and
Dave Jones is a huge brand names.
Dave Jones: The Dave Jones brand was epic.
Adam Curry: So you know, it's because we pushed and we pushed
and we and we asked them we said here's the value return it to us
and people do in many ways, but the three main ones are time
talent and treasure go to podcast index.org down at the
bottom you can find two ways to send in your your donations or
what we always really likely to see you do is get one of those
podcasts apps ditch the legacy ones go to podcast apps.com
Thank you Marcus for getting us that domain name. It really does
work people love using it to hear more and more and get a
modern podcast app that includes the opportunity for you to
stream value for value sets as well as boost and thank you all
for supporting podcasting 2.0 Okay Dawn is cooking I think I
just hear pots and pans rattling and
Dave Jones: that was me that was through see I have put my
clipboard on. On this radiator.
Adam Curry: Oh okay,
Dave Jones: that was mouths making radiator noises Don may
be cooking on his servers that could be he's in the server room
literally while we're podcasting
Adam Curry: so to make up for feeling bad Alex why don't I
play after we end the show? Why don't I play your buddy There
The Official detox music guy cuz I got it lined up. I got it in
the split kit might as well right?
Unknown: Yeah, show legit shout out to Jameson.
Adam Curry: Okay because he's gonna go and talk to the
SoundCloud people so he's going to change SoundCloud mind, I'm
sure. Anybody else any any other things we got to do before we
get Oh, stop. What is this? What is this? No, this isn't that
this? I can't believe this. This is I mean, I've seen some
Richards in my day.
Dave Jones: How many Richards is it?
Adam Curry: We just got five Richards plus three, eight in
total from Stephen B. Play 1 million. No. 111,111 SATs a
massive satchel of Richard's
Holy moly. He says Enjoy your summertime pizza party from
everyone who used curio caster. The LM pay wallets are now
officially closed out.
Dave Jones: Damn, Stephen. Whoa. swinging his riches all over the
place.
Adam Curry: I mean, slap my Richards in my face. Man. That
was beautiful. Oh, man. Thank you so much, brother. Oh, there
you go. What else do we need to say about the value for value
model?
Dave Jones: So that's a close out on Elon on his LNP Yes, it
is. Yeah. Okay, sweet. Because it will. I guess we'll talk
about that next week. Because we're gonna we're gonna start
trying to phase out Elon pay. Yeah. Because we it is costing
us almost 500 a month. So that's, that's expensive. So
there's not much usage going on look this morning. And the usage
was like, Yeah, last thing, the last sets that came in, were
from like, June.
Adam Curry: Okay, we're really close. Well, thank you, Steven B
and everyone else who boosted in stream sets. You also gave that
to that value to Don and Alex who are both in the in the block
in the live block for today as well. And they'll go into the
into the block for for the episode. So that's very much
appreciated. Thank you so much. Thank you, chat room. You all
have been very kind to us today. Don. Alex, thank you very much
for being here with us. And thank you so much for all the
work you're doing especially on the plugin and no agenda tube is
really fantastic.
Alecks Gates: Yeah, just just don't just want to make the
ecosystem better. So
Don Kimberlin (Errhead): then we know they can the world better
and protecting free speech.
Adam Curry: They're so humble. I love these guys. Brother Dave.
Thank you, man. Thank you for keeping me on the straight and
narrow. You're right We're just gonna do the only shim we're
gonna use as in the title today
alright everybody coming up right after we're done we'll
bring you official detox music when I can be be make sure you
boost and we'll see you next week here on podcasting 2.0
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcasts
and die for for more information
Dave Jones: it's bigger than I thought it was.
Unknown: Most