Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0 for August 4 2023, episode 143
Well hello everybody we are back after one week hiatus. This is
podcasting. 2.0 the industry spots to get your eyes poked out
with scissors. Yes, we're the only boardroom that splits his
time and value. All the news about podcasting index.org Of
course everything about the podcast namespace and everything
happening in podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in
the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. He's
back from the redwoods of California rested ready to rock
a knee deep in ribs. Say hello to my friend on the other end
ladies and gentlemen, Mr. De Jones. What are you doing Bala?
Unknown: Oh, careful Instagram Bolin.
Adam Curry: Okay, if you can't say stuff like that, because
then the AI will block us from having ads.
Unknown: Oh, the racist AI.
Adam Curry: Podcasting while being black I think is is now
something that gets get your D platformed.
Dave Jones: Automatically with no human intervention, no
Adam Curry: human intervention whatsoever. Hey, Dave, how was
your vacation man?
Dave Jones: It was fantastic. It it did nothing to calm the
Luddite ism within me. It just made it so much worse.
Adam Curry: So. So Dave's on vacation, he's texting me from
the airport, he's texting me updates. He's texting. And he
he's literally in the Redwoods of California sending me
pictures. I'm like, Come on, man. Chill, I broke it. Take
yourself some rest. And then it did kind of stop. But then you
know, you sent me an article and you never really kind of got off
the system. Did you?
Dave Jones: I can't fully disconnect from the from
podcasting. 2.0 I feel like there's stuff going on. I need
to know I know what's going on. And, and I don't want to come
back to I don't want to come back to a mailbox of you know,
of, of 300 people say in a month my stuff broke in? Oh, no.
Adam Curry: Well, I understand
Unknown: that. I can't unplug fully.
Adam Curry: Are you still using the light phone? Or have you
given up on it? Well,
Dave Jones: no, I used have was using it. But on the trip. I'm
like, I gotta have access to a full mobile. Yeah, because we're
getting into Maps, all that stuff.
Adam Curry: Yeah, when we go to we're going to Europe next next
Friday apps actually, for almost two weeks. And yeah, I
definitely have to I definitely have to have the full mobile
experience for all the stuff we'll be doing.
Dave Jones: But I find you just switch the switch the SIM and
yes.
Adam Curry: Oh yeah, no, I use the light phone exclusively
anytime. Did I tell you what happened with the car? No. Oh
man. So you know so I've been using the light phone wherever I
go. And we went to see Suzanne Santo which she did it before.
This is when my my daughter was here to a couple of weeks back
and it was in Driftwood about an hour and 15 minutes from our
house and was going to be a dinner as well. It kind of
turned out to be a gig that looked a bit like we were
crashing some old folks home cafeteria
Dave Jones: shuffleboard
Adam Curry: we were pretty much the hippest people in the room.
But it was fun you know and we went there to support Suzanne
and we know her husband too and then we go to leave and it's 110
degrees that particular day and so now it's it's 8pm 830 we get
to the car car won't start to yeah um this this is a fairly
new car to go yeah and and of course what that means is
everything lights up the dashboard lights every light on
the dashboard lights up but it won't start so I think I know
why that happened but it all turned out okay but then you
press this little button you know you got a button that that
will you know put you in contact with the with the company and
then they're supposed to come and save you that whole
experience was horrible. I really Hello, this is Helga from
Mercedes, we have a my buck on the way for you. Everything is
going to be fine. Your dog is fed. We will begin picking you
up very shortly. It's all going to be fine. Just a curry. No,
no, it's like Hey, it's Justin here. How you doing? What's your
phone number? Anyway, so Justin had to send me to get my
location. Biggest part of their process. He had to send me a
link to my phone through text message.
Dave Jones: Oh, oh, you're on the line. This is a curse. Yes.
Horrible.
Adam Curry: So yeah, so that I certainly received it but I
could not tap on it and open a browser or anything like that.
Dave Jones: You're like, Hey, Justin, I got your I got your
Adam Curry: link Justin. So from I decided that from now on when
I'm in the car I will take the the toilet scroll or just turn
it off and just put it in, you know, in the glove box. So if I
happen to need it, then I can get it. And I'm pretty, pretty
disciplined that way
Dave Jones: it has made it's made my smart when I have to
switch back to the fourth smartphone. I'm more disciplined
now. I think, and I may end up in this. I may end up good doing
that gab phone. I may give that a shot the gab phone I'm not
familiar with this the gab foe you know the gap? Oh, no, the
gap phone does that for kids. I think it's marketed for kids,
but it's basically just a smartphone that doesn't do any
apps.
Adam Curry: Cam Yeah, it's marketed for kids. Yeah. Yeah,
give that a shot. It has no internet.
Dave Jones: Yeah. But it's got like but it's got like, you
know,
Unknown: it has maps and stuff. It's got it's got is
Dave Jones: better able to handle the stuff like getting a
link from from dry.
Adam Curry: I like this because I can track you and make sure
you're okay. I like this. You'll be my child.
Unknown: I can track you on the gab phone. They get up. Are you
going to put parental controls on? Better believe it?
Dave Jones: I'm going to be enemies. Toilet scroll. We're
applying a mastodon from the Sequoia National Forest. There
you go. Enough, enough. Yeah.
Adam Curry: I love my graphic. You know, if you couldn't use
graphene OS and make it minimal, you can do that.
Dave Jones: Let me let me tell you what did happen though. And
this is this is a thing that I don't I don't understand. As
soon as I got to California, so we landed in Fresno. Let's see
on the 24th and we landed the American Airlines travel
experience.
Unknown: Yes. subpar
Dave Jones: it is. In the toilet. It is the most horrible
thing ever. I will I will do them all I will do the best I
can never to fly that airline again. Yeah, but so but that's
their they've got a lock on Fresno for some reason. Yeah. So
we got in there to Fresno. And I'm telling you within 10
minutes of landing. I started getting spam calls from
California. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. How is that possible? How do
they know what carrier
Adam Curry: are you using? Verizon. There you go. are
selling you crap?
Dave Jones: Dude, it was
Adam Curry: dude. Yeah. That's horrible. I mean, I'm getting a
slew of pig butchers these days. Yeah, you know, the hay. was
great seeing the other day or, Hey, is this Debbie's number or?
Dave Jones: The tennis coach? Yeah,
Unknown: exactly. The tennis coach. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah, whatever data somebody some scammer, somewhere
has access to a firehose of like, connection. Yeah. Yeah. It
is. it quick.
Adam Curry: I wonder. I mean, I wonder it could be. It could be
a couple of things. It could be like a stingray someone set up
at the airport, you know. So basically a man in the middle
you connect and then it connects you. I mean, it could be all
kinds of who knows? Maybe the airport has a deal. Maybe
American Airlines did it.
Dave Jones: That would not be you know what? That wouldn't be
a surprise because you got you really, you're very prone to at
least I am very prone to signing up for the flight status text
messages. You know, you want to get these. Oh, your seat changed
your, your boarding time.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Are you using the American Airlines app.
Dave Jones: I'm now using the app. I just signed up for the
text message alerts whenever I get a seat change or gate change
or something.
Adam Curry: It's horrible. I use it every everything is
disgusting. Everything just
Dave Jones: is but then when you get out in the middle of, of
Sequoia and amongst the
Unknown: we just have no reception. None at all.
Dave Jones: It's wonderful. It's one.
Adam Curry: Well, the funny thing happened while you were
away. Yeah. Did
Dave Jones: you do any June do anything new? Yeah, I
Adam Curry: did this little thing called Bucha. Grand Ball.
Dave Jones: Oh, I hadn't heard about this. Yes. Yes. Explain.
Explain it to me. This was a fantastic show.
Adam Curry: Thank you. I'm so proud of all of us. And I have
comments. Of course I have some notes on stuff that went wrong.
But I am just so proud of because this was everything.
This was everything. Baltic all the things we've done in the
past three years. All of it in the US through the whole thing,
including IPFS podcast thing which we'll talk about as well.
Dave Jones: When I found out you were doing that's when I started
texting you, I'm like you were doing FCFS You've completely
lost your mind.
Adam Curry: I figured, might as well get the biggest scissors we
got and just run like crazy. Yes. Now. So I did it lit, so
why not right. And actually, Steven, Steven B was so kind, he
did a full on screen cast with me, you know, a couple days
before. So I could really understand how to use this how
to use the Split kit, because I was very confused about it. And
really, it's interesting. It's one of those things. And that's
my downfall, because I'm usually on a lot of this stuff. So
early, you get used to doing something when you get used to
how the flow worked at when it was all baked into sovereign
feeds, and then it gets got pulled out appropriately. So
it's the split kit, and I'm just expecting it to work in a
similar way. And I was over overthinking at all. And as much
simpler. I'm like, man, no one understand no one will
understand how this interface works. But actually, I was just
overthinking how it was supposed to work with. It's so incredibly
simple. So
Dave Jones: you sound it. Let me Can I give you an my initial
feedback on
Adam Curry: a Yelp review? The four out of five stars
Unknown: Oh, four out of five. I'll take it. Thank you.
Dave Jones: So I listened to about half of the show before we
had to go. So and then I went back and I listened to the whole
thing on after it was posted on the face about half of the live
show. How were
Adam Curry: you listening? We're listening on on air pods or
earbuds or what are you listening on?
Dave Jones: air pods? Yeah. Okay. On the air air pods on
through. So I was listening. Okay. air pods through the link
that you sent for the lightning? Like they had the page on it
that? Yeah, I don't know what this thing is the split the
split kid page. Yes. Oh, yeah. So I was listening on Safari on
the split kit page through air pods. Good. That's
Adam Curry: a very that's a very decent way to do it. I prefer
the app of course, but that certainly works.
Dave Jones: So there's okay, this review is going to be split
into two different parts.
Adam Curry: I'm screwed. Bruno Bruno, what did you think of his
dance?
Dave Jones: The the, you know, like you have an Amazon review
where they're supposed to be reviewing the product. Yeah, all
they do is bitch about the shipping. Okay, so I for this is
there's going to be a two part two part. Yes. Okay. There's
gonna be the delivery of the show and the show itself. So the
delivery of the show through Safari through the split kit
page. That that failed frequently. Interim, but what
was in the way that it always failed was it would win if I had
if if I had to do anything else on the phone. It would kill the
audio and I had to get a fully blame Safari for this. I think
this is 100 100%
Adam Curry: because it would go to the background then it stops.
Dave Jones: Yes, yeah. Okay. And then when you try to get back in
it, it loses its mind so you have to refresh the page. Which
is in Yes, set you back to zero. You have to log back into lb
it's a it's a 30 to 45 second process you
Adam Curry: didn't have any of the of the of these modern apps
we've worked so hard on loaded on your phone.
Dave Jones: I don't know what what are these things? I don't
know what's, what's your speaker? Through that, and
because I thought okay, I want to see the album art changed
with the WebSocket and all this. I want, I want that. And I'm
thinking those are my only two options for that. Or the
lightning persuaded me this split kit page or curio caster.
So this was
Adam Curry: live you were listening live. Yes, yes. Oh,
okay. Oh, cool
Dave Jones: in the Airbnb at at Sequoia. So I'm like my only two
options here are the split kit pay HTML page, or a curio cast
are both are web based. So unlike Well, that's probably
about is roughly equivalent about the same either way. And
they're both Steven B products. So Mike is probably going to be
about the same code under the under the hood. So I'm like,
Okay, well, I'll just do the split kit page. And I think
Safari just asked the whole thing up. I just don't think
it's a stable platform.
Adam Curry: I agree. I agree. Okay, so
Dave Jones: that's the shipping review. The product review is,
like I said, four out of five stars. And I think the only the
only it's not really it's not really a danger. It's just that
you were I could tell that you had so much going on. You were
distracted.
Adam Curry: Really? Yes. Yeah. Well, yes. Big Because the word
things not happening, right? I was trying to, you know,
whenever I start a song, I'd have to simultaneously click the
value block for that song. And there were other things. Okay,
just what? Okay.
Unknown: Thank you for that resume.
Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank you for that review. So the first
thing I did wrong is in Split kit, I did not have the box
checked, that says, automatically broadcast default
podcast when active block ends. And so I'm looking, I'm looking,
I'm like, Oh, hold on a second. It's still showing the song and
it should be stopped by now. So that was the first thing. And
then there was just a lot going on. Once the songs were playing.
I'm okay. In fact, I even did something very cool. And very DJ
ish. I went to the bathroom during a song like, wow, this is
so cool. I'm peeing during a podcast. I haven't done this in
years. So the show itself, I was quite happy with. I'm sorry, you
heard my distraction. That's a professional, that is a
professional thing that I take quite seriously. And, you know,
let me let me be clear, if I don't get five out of five
stars, you know, then Uber will eventually fire me. So he gets
surge prices, surge pricing goes down.
Dave Jones: Let me let me be let me be clear, I could tell some,
I could tell something within the first 20 or so minutes of
the show, I could tell that you were trying to I'm not gonna say
nervous. It wasn't nervousness. It was more like I could tell
that you were just like, you couldn't focus fully on what you
own the things you were trying to say. Because you were getting
so many buttons at the
Adam Curry: same time. You're absolutely right. You're
absolutely right. But about about 20 to
Dave Jones: 30 minutes into the show. Like, it felt like all
that went away.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Okay, that's fair. Settle there. Yeah, fair,
totally fair.
Dave Jones: And then at that point, it was like, it was just,
it was just a smooth, I felt like I was back in daily source
code. It was, well, it was awesome.
Adam Curry: So the first thing, I mean, there's a lot I can talk
about, but I'm so pleased with this songs, I was able to find
the sourcing of the material was actually quite easy, because we
had already played a number of these songs on on this podcast.
So I already had an idea of there's some really kick ass
songs. And then I was trying to do a real Friday, you know,
like, kick ass feel to it, I think kick ass a lot, but I
meant it was all of that went relatively well. And you know, I
had the lineup good. Although, you know, a request came in for
a song. But I figured, you know, since I'm doing everything now,
why just try a request as well. So I added it to the split kit
in real time, and then had to find the song and get it all go
until there's this a lot of things, but it's possible. I
mean, it's back to almost the old school days of DJing, where
you really had to queue up the record, you had to physically
hit cart machines. And so this, there's a lot of that a lot of
that going on now.
Dave Jones: And you kind of liked that, though, you know, I
love that. Oh, yeah, I
Adam Curry: love it. I love it. Um, so once we were done, this
is where it problems started. So I specifically wanted to have
chapters as well as I want the chapters timed, and there is a a
JSON chapter output on split kit, which, you know, so these
are just all the bugs we're finding right. So if you played
if you had something in the order on split kid, it's out of
order, like that request song was all the way at the end, but
it had the correct start time. But instead of that working and
putting it into chapters at the correct start time it put it at
the end. So these were all little annoyances, the thing
that really stood out is the lack of adherence to spec and we
noticed this right away when the value block wasn't switching in
any of the apps and I'm flipping out you know so I've just done
the show I'm like ah, the live stuff was great people a boost
in it's all fantastic all of that works but then in the
replay the two things are not happening the chapters are
staying all the way through until the until the next song
What the what I expected it to do because I had n times in the
chapters is for the the current chapter art to stop and then the
default to come back which I think is spec yes if you have an
end time so that that didn't happen people are ignoring end
times the and by the way, I think the best experience still
would be pod verse because pod verse the art switches while
you're listening and fountain doesn't do that, that I really
was looking at these two apps specific I knew kareoke and
curio caster also had prop everyone had a problem. But the
biggest problem
Dave Jones: with the End Time specifically yeah
Adam Curry: I I don't know if I tested that on curio caster, but
no one had the end times as far as I can tell, here's
Dave Jones: what I was hearing about, here's what I would
expect to happen in this may not be clear from the spec, I don't
know, I would expect that whenever the chapter art, when
if there's an end of time in the chapter section, that at the
when the when the end, he gets hit, and there's no next chapter
this this starting that the original show arcs, it just
flows back to this main album on exactly
Adam Curry: what I expected. Okay, that did not happen. The
second thing was real breakage. Because I set up the booster
gram ball, and the booster gram ball has a show value block just
for the entire show. And when I saw I just added the through
split kid I imported the value time splits. It didn't work on
any app, every single app required there to be a value
block in it in order for the value time splits to work, which
I also don't think is spec.
Dave Jones: That makes sense. Yes. Okay. You're you're saying
that you're saying that that the the lack of a feed level value
block?
Adam Curry: No, I had the feed level block, but I didn't have
the item level block. And we've only tested it with item level
blocks on this show. We've never tested it with no item level
block, just pure value time split block.
Dave Jones: Okay, this is similar to the issue that a lot
of apps had at the beginning, when we started doing the live
item tag where there was yes, when you have a feed that has
episodes, and then you add a live item, when you have feed
that has items, then you add a live item, everything worked
fine. But if you had a feed where there was nothing in it
literally nothing, and you only had a live item, it freaked
everything out. And yes,
Adam Curry: that's exactly what happened. So this, so my feed
did not have value recipients at the item level block. But it
only had the value time split, then not a single app understood
it. And now imagine, I'm done. I'm testing it on apps I'm not
seeing I'm seeing 100% of the booths go to the show level
block. Nothing to the artists like this is this is bad.
Because this is the premiere show and the artists aren't
getting anything. And I have a dinner in Dripping Springs in an
hour with our pastor and his wife and two other friends. And
then I'm just with Steven B and we're trying to troubleshoot at
his daughter's turning six. So he has birthday party stuff. And
I'm just like, oh, yeah, and I'm just like I said Jesus helped
me. days in the forest. Dave's in the forest, I gave it to the
Lord. And I just okay, that will happen. And you know, Steve
said, yeah, man, I probably can't get to it till tonight or
tomorrow. You know, that was that was just what it was, you
know. So I'm like, Okay, I'm a big boy, I just felt so bad
because I knew that. Basically, I'm getting all the Satoshis.
And the whole point was for them to go to the artist anyway.
During the dinner, I get a text from, from Steven beasts. And I
figured it out, he figured out what the problem what we figured
out together. And then I can't even remember, I wound up
putting an item level value block in and that cleared it up.
And then he was fixed. There was other stuff going on. And he
will have to explain what it was all kinds of other things were
happening.
Dave Jones: Okay, so So you, you, you threw in an item level
value block and everything just magically? It started.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I mean, it was probably a combo of two
different things. Steven also said some other stuff. And he
was fixing the chapter issue. So that because I think was also
the one I played out of order wasn't working. It somehow
somehow it mattered, the that I'm not saying this right, even
though the time was correct. In the value time split for the
song I played at that was placed in the value times but block at
the end. Some apps I think didn't pick it up. And also and
to be fair, everyone's in beta on this stuff. And so this was
running with scissors, and fountain I'm using the beta of
fountain and I knew it was wrong there because it wasn't picking
up anything I saw not the References tab wasn't even
there. And so and it wasn't doing it right and it actually
wasn't catching the first block. I mean, there's all kinds of
little things that were happening. But as as time
progressed, as time went on, things just kind of started to
shake out and start to end up doing resets on the on the feed
and the index to make sure everything gets brought back in
again. And then by then it's working pretty well. And I'm
seeing because I have the new heli pad on my start start nine
box, I can see the split, you know, so I can actually see as
it comes in as Okay, that looks like you know, 5% of the entire
boost because it has the it has the the Satoshis that came in
and in parentheses on the new helipad, that shows the total
boost amount. Okay, so now I know, of course, I still don't
really know what it's going to because no one has that encoded.
You know, the the apps aren't telling me what it's boosting is
just it tells me it's boosting my show. And I can see from the
numbers that I'm not getting that I'm getting just a small
percentage. So my presumption is it's going to the right
destination. In fact, I have to say pod verse when you use pod
verse ditch you know when you go to boost it shows you the split
right there and you can be you don't have to like fountain you
have to tap into in to see the split. And I don't think
fountain in the in the betta. I don't think it shows the actual
the top value time split. So there's all kinds of confusing
stuff, but I could see when I hit it on fountain, then it
would come in and it would be a small percentage so I figured it
work but no one is sending along the title of the of the remote
item. That would be really handy if we had that.
Dave Jones: There were so we're just in the spec is only the
remote. The remote feed Gu ID and the remote item Gu ID is the
only two things that come through, right.
Adam Curry: But but from from that they could parse it and say
okay, this is a boost for booster gram ball, the
broadcast,
Dave Jones: but really pad would have to do that. Oh, Haley pad
has to do that. Okay. Yes, yeah, because all you're getting the
only thing they can send unless they just encode it textually in
the in the boost somehow is, is just the feed guid in the in the
item do it. So on the receiver end, we would have to do a look
up and get what what that was. Okay.
Adam Curry: So I found a bug on pod verse in this process, pod
verse was actually sending it reverse. So I'd get the get the
full amount first on helipad. And then in parentheses, the the
percentage that I actually got, and Mitch jumped on that right
away. And you fix that.
Dave Jones: Okay, cool.
Adam Curry: Cast ematic. I saw cast ematic Franco was testing
something and he's only sending total sets TLB he's not sending
the the percentage received. Franco.
Dave Jones: So he's not he's not sending the he's sending the
original amount, not the not the actual or the other way around.
Adam Curry: Now he's not he's not sending the actual he's
sending the total amount.
Dave Jones: Okay, so you're not seeing an accurate
representation of what you got versus
Unknown: Correct. Correct. Correct. So,
Dave Jones: which I need to tell I want to talk about cast
thematic in a bit.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Well, I know because you're, you're you're
building some kind of Shemaiah here. So let me see what else I
had on my my notes here. Other than that, I think it was, I
think that was those were the bugs. I mean, this is very small
stuff comparatively speaking. And, and I have to say that so
this this thing hit big. I mean, I got calls from the Netherlands
people, you know, radio people saying what's going on? want to
interview you? Nice. Sam Sethi called. He says, Yeah, I
Dave Jones: heard your interview. Yeah, it was good.
Was the audio
Adam Curry: doing weird stuff on your?
Dave Jones: It was very Kuti. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Yeah. It's not like there's some kind of encoding
issue they might have had on this particular episode.
Dave Jones: I agree. Yeah. Well, it
Adam Curry: wasn't just my interview. It was it was in it
was throughout the whole show. I was hearing it.
Dave Jones: James said he was trying to edit you down to 20
minutes of cream.
Adam Curry: Honestly, I think he did a pretty good job at it.
Because he got mostly got the most important stuff in there.
And for me, the most important again, is this is everybody this
is every every single person who has worked on this project from
the beginning. All these pieces came together. And you know,
it's it's a shining moment for all of us and then to see and
this is the thing that that I love the most to see James jump
in and immediately do his own music show. Just made the I was
beaming. I'm so so happy. That is so cool, because I want to
see 1000 of music shows 1000s 10s of 1000s of music
shows, and, and for a number of reasons. But another one is, is
like, Oh man, where do you find that song? I want to play that
song. You know, it's discovery upon discovery. And the artists
feedback has been fantastic. That means just that, you know,
they're making, they're getting value. They're, they're feeling
appreciated. They're excited. I have a whole inbox filled with
Play my song, you know, stuff like that.
Unknown: Oh, well, that's, that's what you want. That's,
that's really what you want. And
Adam Curry: then to top it all off. IPFS podcasting worked. It
works. And not just a little bit
Dave Jones: perhaps the most solid part of the hoax. Yes. I
mean,
Adam Curry: I screwed something up. Because as we were, you
know, me, it's like, I'm so frustrated trying to get the why
is it not working? Why am I so I did a good change. Yeah, that's
always smart. So if you got episode one twice, that's what
it is. And but so, and then, of course, cameras like, Hey,
what's going on? Did you do a good change? I'm sorry. But but
that was that. And the splits. I've just got to explain this
for people who haven't heard about this. So IPFS network, the
interplanetary file system, which has been around for a long
time. We've talked about this many times over. We talked about
implementation. And Cameron has been so diligent just working
there in his shack in the woods. And he will IPF podcasting,
dotnet, which has been running for months and months and
months. I have all my podcasts on there, I can see that people
are definitely downloading them from there. Thank you to rss.com
they have is rss.com. Yeah, they have a huge node that they that
they maintain that
Dave Jones: yeah, Alberto is a big IPFS Yeah, he he loves it.
Um, so
Adam Curry: you know, he he's he's pinning everything, which
is incredibly important. And the thing that was always the dream,
you know, the web three dream, web tois has always been that
you would be compensated for your participation in hosting
some media files. Yeah, that was the file that's what file coin
was and file coin was a shit coin. And it was just an you
know, the guys who owned all the coins, were always trying to get
up in our knickers. Hey, do you like that? You still so
Brittany, they're trying to get met with my betta. They were
trying to get up on our upper skirt basically. And we just
weren't having it's like, no, no, it's I'm just not interested
in that. And so Cameron put and I didn't even know it was going
to be fully automated. I had no idea how he's going to do this.
And so if you're a participant and the the podcast is put IPFS
podcasting dotnet into the value block, and I have it in for 5%,
which was recommended. Then, whenever either enough SATs come
through or a stream or a booster, I don't even know what
it is, you get this wonderful message. Like a really I'm gonna
bring it up. It's a very pleasant message that says thank
you so much for hosting the let me just give you the exact
wording in a second to open up a second helipad here. And it's so
friendly and you see it just coming in continuously. Now it's
the way he's he's done this is whatever comm whatever that 5%
Is that comes into IPFS podcasting.net. It gets split
amongst all the peers that are that have pinned that episode so
it's not necessarily if it came from you or not, it's the fact
that you're participating and you get a split whether it came
from you or not. So here's an example. Go down here. So eight
SATs booster gram ball booster gram ball episode one thank you
from booster grid in parentheses. Thank you from
Bookstagram ball for hosting Bookstagram ball Episode Oh one
via IPFS podcasting and you feel so good about this.
Unknown: You do it just feels good.
Dave Jones: So I got my notes set up last night. Of course
Paul piled it onto the same box that I'm podcasting and also is
the Umbro doors.
Unknown: Yes. Does. Yes.
Dave Jones: So the is I got to sit up. I'm currently I
currently have eight to 864 peers. And I'm hosting about 200
Meg's of of episodes nice. I have not received I've not
received any, any of the warm greetings that you've had. Have
you just talked about having? So I haven't gotten any payments
yet.
Adam Curry: You have? Well, and you just got it up set up today
or yesterday?
Dave Jones: Last night, okay, yeah. I have only only got a
couple of episodes today. So I mean, this is real.
Adam Curry: Right? I'm hosting pod news as well. And I've
gotten payments from pod news. So I
Dave Jones: went in and I did a don't tell me if I did it.
Right. I went in and, like favorited shows that I wanted to
be a part of, of hosting,
Adam Curry: did you make it a red heart or a gold heart? I
think red. Okay, that means you only start hosting stuff from
that moment forward, you don't go back and index the whole
catalog.
Dave Jones: Okay, so if it's gold, it does the whole thing.
Yeah. Oh, I need I need to gold it up, then I need to switch
month. Yeah, as long
Adam Curry: as you have disk space, that's no problem. And
you know what this what I love about this is, yes, this was
probably the most solid piece of the whole thing. We did it
because I was completely sovereign. Basically, I output
my sovereign feeds RSS feed, I put it onto my own server, added
that to the index, and added it to my, to my IP fester
podcasting node added to my own lightning node for for my own
payments, and IPFS. Just hosting it. I mean, you, me yeah, you
could get it from somewhere else, the original place I
uploaded it. But that's that's not in the that's not, that's
not the enclosure URL, the enclosure URL is to IPFS
podcast. And so he's rotating, I guess, rotating what exit node
comes off of. And honestly, I was a little worried that it
just might be too overwhelming. And I mean, except for the very,
very beginning, there was not a single failure. No one's
complained about it not playing. James I think saw some cores
issues, which we couldn't replicate, not sure why that
happened. And then it fixed itself. It did kind of fix
itself. But it's also really solves the main problem of
broadcasting on the internet. With broadcast, you have an
antenna, and every new listener you get is actually more revenue
for you. Whereas with podcasting and streaming, and all these
other things, every person you add is more cost, because
ultimately, it costs more bandwidth to add more bandwidth
to distribute it. And now, it's just split up amongst a whole
bunch of other people.
Dave Jones: Well, this some we're gonna have, we're gonna
get Cameron on, as soon as you get back from vacation, and
discuss this and probably have Alberto on as well. He said,
he's good to go. So we're gonna have to we're gonna deep dive
into this, but I think I think you're right. And also had this
thought that you know, this assault. I don't know if you saw
that news this week, about Amazon starting to impose this
30% fee.
Adam Curry: Damn. Does anyone have a podcast app on Amazon?
Dave Jones: I don't know. But I'm thinking so these these
players, you can generally call these platform taxes. You know,
they're they're these that you're gonna pay us for the for
the privilege of being hosted on our platform? Well,
Adam Curry: to be fair, what I heard was the way I understood
it, is they say, either use our advertising infrastructure, or
you pay 30% is like a cork fee. Yeah, and Amazon's advertising
infrastructure is quite good. So if you're in the advertising
game, and they had advertising, I can see where they might do
that. Where they might do something for me, they want to
get people. I don't think it's about taking the 30% for them. I
think it's about getting people to use their advertising
platform, which is just as evil obviously.
Dave Jones: Well, that IPFS IPFS podcasting solves not only the
problem you talked about, where it's like the you know, the the
more of successful the show is the heart, the more it costs, it
solves the platform tax issue as well. Because now now you're
baked into baked into this whole thing is pay is you're paying
for the plot, you're you're paying for the platform. No,
it's better.
Adam Curry: The people who are listening are paying for the
platform. Yeah, it's not even the list the list. Yeah, this is
the beauty. This is value for value straight up.
Dave Jones: They're paid. They're paying for the delivery
of the content. Yeah, they're
Adam Curry: using. Exactly, exactly. Now,
Dave Jones: I think it ended I think it doesn't end around
across on all of this stuff, hosting hosting companies that
are not at least looking at this You've got to
Adam Curry: well, this is this is the best part, this is the
best part. Because Alberto is in the conversation. And he says,
Man, I'm really looking forward to getting paid for hosting
files. Yeah, and I don't even have to I don't have to have
customer service for these people.
Dave Jones: It turns if it turns it from a cost center into a
profit, yes. But let me let me I mean, you can have, you can buy
a, you can buy a $10,000, HP deal 360 with about, you know,
10 terabytes of data or something like that, or let's
just say 40 terabytes of data, of storage, and just host a
humongous IPFS node in your in the game. Now here's,
Adam Curry: here's the thing, though, there's, there's, I
think, a downside to this that we haven't discussed. So when I
started with booster grand ball, I'm getting me I'm getting a
sizable amount of Satoshis. Now the more nodes that come on, the
less I'm getting, which so the question is, does this remain a
split equally amongst everyone who's pinning the show? Or do
you balance it out? Based upon who's node actually supplied
that particular download? I don't even know if you can do
that. I mean, I don't know. But the more nodes are online, the
less you're going to get, of course, that also means the less
you'll be, you'll be I just don't know if, if that's a real
business, I guess?
Dave Jones: Well, it's a real business from the standpoint of
it take the take the money part of a way of the getting paid for
the delivery. Okay. And just in just look at the just the peer
to peer nature of not having to serve all of it yourself. Right.
You know, that that alone is worth? I mean, because if you
think, you know, I don't know how I don't know what the
typical bill is for CD ends for hosting companies, but it's got
to be in the 1000s of dollars a month? Oh, you know, I don't
know more more than that. 1010 grand a month, I don't know,
you, you take 110 1015, I don't know it's got it's got to be a
lot. So you take, let's just take you to Isa, you take one
month of of CDN hosting cost, dump that into a into a fat
server at a colo and just in host as much as you can. And if
every host does that, and they all begin to share the load. And
all the peer and all the community and the peer to peer.
I mean, I would
Adam Curry: you were you remove the big you remove the biggest
problem they have.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And I mean, like I've got, I would run us, I
would run a decent sized server at Linode. For this,
Adam Curry: I think I think this will be a very interesting free
market experiment, we're going to see what happens, we're going
to see so you know, what, if I switch? No, not that I'm going
to because we're pretty happy with our setup. But if I switch
no agenda to this? I mean, where would we wind up? I mean, would
I be we start pushing a terabit per second, the minute we
release, you know, so this will be very interesting to see what
falls down. If we did something like that. But for 99% of all
the podcasts out there, this is a solution. And I'm not saying
that you need to go full on sovereign and not use your
hosting company. Quite the opposite. The hosting companies
can get into this game. Like I think that's what you're saying,
too.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Just I'm thinking, well, Todd Todd just
said 35,000 a month. I mean, like, there you go, you're,
you're mainly what I'm saying is you as a hosting company, Todd
being a baller, 35k month, man. There's a, as a hosting company,
you have to look at this before the future, you know, for the
future. And at least say, Okay, this is worth considering some
sort of investment. I mean, let it play out, let it you know,
let it play out for the next few months and see no stability and
how it progresses. But be ready be ready to make to spend a few
$1,000 to make an investment in a in a box or in something to
get you into this game because it will like I mean, just just
think about that. That's That's true decentralization that we
said this before the hosting company, the CDN, the delivery
of the audio part. That's not the fun part of doing what you
do as a host, right? That's just a thing. It's like the dirty
thing that you just have to do if the plumbing of your hotel.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, you thing could be that all the audio and
the delivery of it is so commoditized and has been
commoditized for 25 years. That's not the value, add. The
value add is all the software and support and user interfaces,
tooling and all that stuff that you layer on, the delivery of
the audio is just pure cost to you. I'm feeling a need to make
that better, isn't
Adam Curry: it. So I'm so excited about this, because we
can also start to create, um, there's just a lot that can be
created out of this. Now the main thing we need is we need
write ups, we need people to be writing up how it works. I mean,
I've been sending people to music side project.com, there's
the there's a pretty decent tutorial video that shows how to
do it with a with a with the pod press plugin. wavelength.com is
probably still the easiest at this point. But you don't get
the benefit of the splits. I mean, I know that they're going
to work on it, I would expect there will be more more music
based hosts popping up. And now you can actually add IPFS on
that end as well. You can use IPFS podcasting.net for a music
hosting service. In fact, it's probably very valid to do it
that way. Because you know, that's going to be relatively
low. You know, number of accesses will be different than
a podcast. Oh, I did. So just as a side note, James Vaughn, his
random music project thing. He thought that he should be a
music tag, which made him unfindable in the index.
Dave Jones: Why did it make him findable to be music?
Adam Curry: Under? Under fountain? Fountain?
Dave Jones: Oh, because fountain segregates that separate tan?
Yep. Oh, yeah. Okay.
Adam Curry: And I also think is just incorrect. I mean, if it's
a I think all of even playlists should be should not be music,
music should be music.
Dave Jones: Yes, it should be pure. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So I actually reset in the index to make sure that
that got reindex because he had made the change in his feed, but
it wasn't going all the way through a couple of ideas. If
you are in an app and view I want to boost the song, it'd be
great if the boost button reflects that. You know, maybe,
you know, maybe we need to think about boost the show or boost.
And then title of the song, just so people have a visual cue
there as to what they're doing. That makes no sense. I don't
know what you mean. Okay, so um, I'm just I'm using pod pod
verse. But I'm listening to the show that I want to I want to
boost and the boost button title has actually changed to boost.
You know, Sarah Jade.
Dave Jones: Oh, like it's calling out the where the where
the
Adam Curry: dynamic change the dynamic change, just as a
thought. I mean, anyway, everyone's interface is
different. There was one just an
Dave Jones: After Effects after the fact like fade out pop up.
This says, you know, a boost sent to Sarah, Jake, Bob,
Adam Curry: something like that. Yeah. I don't know about after
the fact. It would be nice for people to have a visual cue
right there. Like when you hit this boost is going to this
artist. I mean, it was wonderful to watch Tina, because she was
listening to the show. And the song ended. In the end. She's
like, Well, I really liked that song. And I said at that moment
on the show, I said, Hey, if you'd like a song can always
rewind and go back. And she actually did it. I saw her do
it. Oh, I can do that. She went back to the song and then
boosted it. And yeah, so these types of things are important
for people to understand. Because it's just not really I
mean, sewer still so new in the communication of this. That's a
request that came in, I thought was interesting. Someone said, I
would like to boost all the artists all at one time. So all
the songs in the show all at once. But I don't know how we do
that. If it's crazy if that's just one person, but I wanted to
mention it because I thought it was an interesting, an
interesting, interesting thought,
Dave Jones: well, you know that so I like seeing what we're
seeing with the different apps trying different interface
styles like fountain asker put a lot of thought into that into
that interface. It absolutely would. So you can go into too.
As you're listening to the show. You can go in and look and it
will show you all the referenced song songs in Yes, yeah. And you
can boost them individually. So I like that a lot. I like that.
Yeah. That would be a place where you can sort of roll that
up to and say okay, do you want to boost each individually or do
you want to boost them all at once? So yeah, there's a lot.
There's a lot of user interface. Since this is so brand new and
so out there as far as like, what is actually happening?
That's a that's a field that's ripe for, you know, for playing
all kinds
Unknown: of stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Dave Jones: I mean, I mean, so if you got something else to go,
go ahead, but I want to talk about cast Matic.
Adam Curry: Now let's talk about casting Matic.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So like that, that sort of plays into the
thing with with cast, Matt. And this is going to apply to any
app that doesn't have a server back end. So that would be
antenna pod. So they, those apps have unique constraints, but in
a in a sense. So I love these types of apps, podcast apps. In
a sense, they're the most pure,
Adam Curry: let's just let's set the stage here. Again, we, we
you, we've always said, Whatever we do, it has to work for
everybody. We can't just work for a couple of apps, if there's
a serverless app that has all our stuff has to work for that
as well. So that's the that's the driving factor behind this
specific conversation.
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah, in in, there's a sense in which they're
the the serverless apps, you could think of like if you want
to go old school things like dog catcher in an apple podcasts at
one time was, in a sense, they connected to a directory, but
they didn't that's about it. So the serverless apps are really
some of the like, they're they're pure podcast apps there
are. So they have built in RSS aggregation. And they just do
everything on device. And there's so many benefits to
doing it that way. It's very, it's a great experience. And
it's easy, and it's cheap. So whatever has this this lot,
though, everything has to work for that type of app. The live
experience has to work for this type of app, the value time
splits have to work. And so so far, most of it has, but there's
a couple of things that are an issue in one of the in. One of
them is the value time splits, referencing remote items. So so
first of all, referencing the remote item is the exact correct
way to do all of this completely agree. Because you add any if
you here's what you could do. So let's think about this. You what
you could do is you could do you could have done your live show.
It's an after the fact you could have hit a magic button. I love
those that would have resolved all of these remote items into
hard coded value time splits with the with the value blocks
pulled in from those remote items directly into the feed and
and now it's static,
Adam Curry: which is basically what the split kid does.
Dave Jones: Okay, so that that's, that would be one way
but you then you lose the ability to track over time later
on. Let's just say you post that episode and six months a year,
two years from now. Ainsley Costello changes her value block
to reference a different wallet.
Adam Curry: Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Yes. The Gotcha. Yes. This is
where the this is where the GUID ID the GUID comes in.
Dave Jones: Right. And this is this is confusing, because this
is the part of the confusing nature of what value time split
does in this this.
Adam Curry: And let me throw something in there for you.
Because there's a huge bit of confusion just so you can
address this and then I'll be quiet. Sure, there's a lot of
confusion between the value time split and chapters. There's a
lot of people thinking well, so it's tied to the chapters
because what they're seeing is album art rotating as part of
the chapters, while the value block switches. It's two
independent things. Right, but just adjusting I mean, I think
Sam Sethi was also confused about it.
Dave Jones: The reason will to divert for a second the reason
that we talked early on in Chapter seemed like a natural
place to do these value time splits. But there's an
ideological thing here where you want you don't want a major
feature You're dependent on another major, major feature.
Yeah, right, these things and I thought Sam Sethi made this
point, really good. And in the episode, where he interviewed
you, which is the whole idea of these things from the beginning
has been that they're modular, yeah, you can take various tags
and plug them in in different places to create new feature
structures of things that can do things that the previous things
could not do by themselves. Imperfect example here is remote
item, remote item can be can be a standalone element in the feed
if you want to make a playlist, or it can be a child of the
value time split tag, where now it means go pull in a specific
piece of data. So these, these are all of these, these elements
are modular, so if you think of this as features, so if you go
like let's say, ideologically, you go one, step up the chain
here and say, okay, value time split represents a feature. And
that feature is the ability to change a value destined value
block wallet destination on the fly. That feature should not be
dependent on some other feature, let's just say. Let's just say
alternate enclosure. You don't want you don't want one of these
brands to be dependent ideologically on another thing,
so. So book a call. And then the reason is because an app, you
don't want them to you don't want them to you don't want to
require them to write a chapter parser in order to get the
ability to switch wallet, right, yeah, concurrently, perhaps,
yes, some apps don't want it, maybe, maybe they don't want to
support chapters.
Adam Curry: Right? Well, they will be pushed off the cliff,
but okay.
Dave Jones: Yes. So like, maybe here's a, here's an example.
Maybe they don't feel a need to support chapters, because they
target devices that don't have interfaces. Maybe it's an iPod
Shuffle. Okay, there's no, there's no benefit. They see two
chapters, right. But they still want to list these, they still
want to be able to switch remote wallets. So there's, there's a
reason you don't want to force that. So anyway, that we've
we've just established that. So that this decision was made to
put this information in the XML of the feed itself. And so
that's when Alex came up with this value, time split element.
Yeah. The value time split references, it can reference two
things it can reference, it can you can put a value block
directly into the value time slip, where you just have value
recipients defined statically, just like a value block. Or,
instead, you can put in remote, a remote item tag, which means
app. When you see this, go look up this feed its current version
of the XML, go grab a copy, extract the wallet data out of
it and use that. So one is a live lookup in real time. The
other one is static forever data that never changes,
Adam Curry: right? And so the live lookup is the issue.
Dave Jones: Right? So the live look. Like I said before, you
could make it where the post production tool, extracts it all
at, at at at production time and create static items, that's less
than ideal because you don't track these things changes over
time. But then the burden of a remote item reference is that
things like antenna pod and cast Matic have to do live lookups
and potentially, the deck. That's a ton of traffic.
Adam Curry: And a lot of a lot of things that can go wrong.
Dave Jones: Yeah, because they have to pull the whole feed down
and parse this in parse it.
Adam Curry: Yeah, in real time, while someone's waiting for the
show to play.
Dave Jones: Yeah, they would have to be sort of like reading
ahead for or doing it, or looking just the same way they
do chapters, right, grab a copy of the file is sort of like
whenever you hit play, and recheck everything and see. So
really, I see that as a burden on us with API to provide more
efficient, look up tools to make this easier on those sorts of
apps. So that they can get this data quick and with with a lot
of efficiency, so that would be something like an API endpoint,
where cast ematic They can call they can call out to this
endpoint and just get a real time list of all of the value
splits with their wallets resolved in one go.
Adam Curry: Right. But it's unlike the value block. It's not
a shim, because it has to exist in the feed initially, in order
for it to be stored in the index.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's the same is the same thing is if it's in
the feed, it's the feed, if it's in the feed, the feed is the
source of truth. If it's not in the feed, because it's been
shimmed, with, you know, with the partner APR the podcaster
wallet, then then that's that was the podcasters choice. And
we're honoring that too. So that, but if you some thinking,
Okay, well, when you call, it should be as easy as loading a
chapters file. Right? So and that means we would do all the
resolution on our side ahead of time. Maybe pretend? I mean,
every time the feeds parse Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that's been
behind what I've been trying to think through with the schema
for the database. I'm getting, I'm trying to model what that's
going to mean for us with the way the date the tables are
going to be laid out. And so there's like, you could you can
think about it this way. I posted the database schema
online, if anybody wants to look at it. Yummy. is not nearly as
yummy as you think it is. So it's unpacked, it's on the
namespace as you meet the GitHub repo. There's a there's a repo
for database. And it's just called database. And so there's
the current here. We get the namespace we get the exact
reference, if anybody wants to check it. Out, it was
disgusting. Oh, is the old grimy? Yeah, I
Adam Curry: just cleaned it up. Let me see. sounds it sounds
better to I can
Dave Jones: tell you real into what I'm saying here, as you're
cleaning
Adam Curry: nose is actually with my eyes closed in a zen
mode, just just using the corner of my shirt to clean the bell
while I was listening and visualizing the database.
GitHub.
Dave Jones: You polish in your dome? Yes, I, there it is.
Unknown: I make the jokes around here.
Dave Jones: It is called. It is in the podcast index. Org
database repo. And the file is called PC API underscore schema
dot SQL. So and that's just a, that's just the table structure.
As you can see, there's a there's a news feeds table,
which is podcast, the podcasts. And there's an episodes table,
which is called NF items. So there's just for, for people who
aren't database people, there's this notion within databases of
what's called a foreign a foreign key. Or you could call
it a foreign key, foreign key constraint. So if I have a table
with pod, if I have a table called podcasts, and then I have
another table called episodes, what I want is for the episodes
table, for all the ever all these rows in the episodes
table, to reference back to an ID of the podcast that they
belong to in the podcast table. Okay, so there's a column in the
podcast table called ID. And then there's a column in the
episodes table called podcast ID. Well, that podcast ID column
in the episodes table needs to be tied to the ID column in the
podcast table. They need to be tied together in such a way i
Yes, I say that if you were to do something like delete the
podcast out of the podcast table, all the episodes with
that podcast ID linked to it in the episodes table also get
deleted. So in don't get orphaned. So that's what you
call a foreign key constraint. So what you do is you're telling
the episodes table, hey, I have an index on this column here,
which is podcast ID and I have an there's a, there's also an
index over here on the podcast table under the ID column. I'm
going to I'm going that's a foreign key. So I'm going to go
and reference that in here's what I want to happen. I want if
the podcast ID over in the podcast table gets deleted, I
want to take this action. And that action could be do nothing
We'll leave it there, the action could be updated to change to
reflect the new ID, pour, it could be cascade. So you can
have, you can have these cascading actions that happen
across a foreign key set. This this is the typical way that you
set up relationships in a win is why it's called a relational
database.
Unknown: It's how I've always done it. Yes, it is. It is. All
your databases are relational. You bet. So
Dave Jones: when you're thinking of through this, this is this is
a complex set of tags. We know that we all know this. Where do
we know that value, time split and remote item IDs? These are
these are not easy tags to model know. So there is a table in our
database called NF Gu IDs. In the NF Gu IDs table is simple.
It's just a Gu ID column and a feed ID. Right. So the podcast
ID is there. And it says, Okay, this podcast ID is this Gu ID.
And there's a foreign key that relates back to the podcast
table to the end to new state stable. So that there's linkage
there. So the issue is where to make these links.
Adam Curry: What sort of bemrose is foreign key is antiquated.
They're now known as migrant keys. Thank you, I needed that
bemrose.
Dave Jones: Okay, you got me bemrose. That was good. Yes.
Thank you for making this not boring. So you could you could
do it that way. So would you say alright, should there be a
foreign key constraint on the goods table? For the remote
item? Is that the right place to link it? That would mean the
good? No, I mean, the good is has to exist. You can't link
right if you can't leave something blank. So that's not
good. Because some fields don't have a good before they need to
end up in in, in this as a rule with a remote item. So but so
what that does that mean that you're just going to break the
linkage and say, Okay, well, you don't, there doesn't have to be
a foreign key constraint, because that's not good. Because
if without foreign keys, then you you have slow joins, then
you have to do full table scans. So there's things like, I
started drawing this out. And there's just things that
they're, I don't think it's going to be possible to avoid
trade offs. Here. The value time split itself is pretty
straightforward. That tag looks a lot like the sound bites tag.
So it's pretty much like the sound bite table. But when you
bring in the remote item, that's when it gets messy. And like
because you end up with you can end up with duplicates, if you
don't have if you don't have the unique index. But then unique
index seems to not really work for this. So I I'm trying to be
as honest as I can.
Adam Curry: Sounds like you really don't know what you're
doing. Well, I mean, you haven't made a choice yet. Let's put it
that way.
Unknown: Putting the blame out wrong. Hold on
Adam Curry: on lease offering it for you, you know
Unknown: what's really hot? Open Source. Send your pull request
now.
Dave Jones: Old school you had dug deep in the back? I did. I
got ISOs by the way, so far it will go Okay.
Unknown: I see what you got here. Okay, yeah.
Dave Jones: So anyway, that I'm going to be honest to say that
I'm not sure exactly what structure this is going to take.
I think there's going to be trade offs. But I'm committed to
get something working. Of course, for for this, because
because they need to these apps need to be first class citizens
in podcasting. 2.0 it is it's not fair to leave any of these
apps where they can't do these things. Part of that, but part
of that is going to be a good resolver. And brands already
written the code for that. Oh, and he's running one. As soon as
I get these. Since I get the value, time split and all that
stuff. It seems like get that schema stuff settled and get an
API endpoint written. That's the thing I'm working on right now.
But then next, I'm going to switch to the good resolver and
we're going to run one, two, because it's cheap. And we're
going to load balances sort of like we do with piping dot
cloud. And that'll give everybody the ability to have
quick good lookups So anyway that we're we're building this
stuff and it's going to be a little messy but I think it's I
think once we sort of get a little bit further into it we'll
be able to have something that doesn't leave anybody out but
Nanos crazy
Adam Curry: that's what we're looking forward. Wow. Okay, big
big changes here at the index long way to get sorry for that.
No, no, no, I'll tell you what, why don't we take a breather one
play song and I'll play song I'd love to Yeah, okay I'm going to
switch the block right now as we're going it Sam means listen
to Kalina
Dave Jones: Leo fan
Unknown: it's just a matter of pee
live television
season
Kareena?
Go back
to two see
way
so much easier than sit in any way you want to go.
Adam Curry: Kalina. What a great tune isn't that I love Sam means
his games got chops? Yeah, he's got he's got a whole album out.
I think maybe even more than one album. And of course, if you're
listening on a modern podcast app, your Satoshis were switched
to his wallet. And if you boosted during that song that
went to him as well, thank you for supporting value for value
music.
Dave Jones: It's like that you're still playing songs on
our show. That's Oh, yeah.
Adam Curry: Well, we also me people still need stuff to test
with. I mean, I'm, I'm going to drop another booster gram ball
tomorrow. Oh, yeah, I'm trying to do like Saturday. I mean, I
need it has to be a day that I'm not already doing a podcast.
Dave Jones: As you're getting harder to find. Yeah, but
Adam Curry: you know, I had some fun this morning. It's I'm
trying to make Friday kind of my Sabbath. I'm not doing I'm not
doing any Gitmo nation stuff. You know, I'll skim through the
emails. Everything that looks no agenda related. I'll just leave
that for for Saturday when I do show prep. So
Dave Jones: today's your Sabbath. It's like we're it's
like we're in church together.
Adam Curry: I know. Yeah. We are in church because this is not
work. The drill Yeah. Yeah cathedral thank you the podcast
YouTube for don't get the draw because this is all fun and I
picked out a number of songs I think I might have heard that
one on James's show not I think about it you know just and I'm
running through Ellen beats and running through wave lake and
then look at through email people suggesting songs and
people sending in stuff and the show it's Yeah, but of course we
need to do on our show. This is where we still run with scissors
so people can always know there's something to test on our
show.
Dave Jones: So you're gonna be live on set? Yeah, I'm
Adam Curry: gonna drop it live drop it live job. Yeah, I think
around 1230 Probably. That's just a little side note about
all this stuff. This could not have come at a better time. When
I think I mentioned that on the on the ball. When this Vanity
Fair article come out and this Susanna, I think her name is she
was on. On the pod pod news weekly review. No rubbish.
Rebecca. Rebecca sounds good. Yeah. And like this word, the
title of the article was after the podcast Gold Rush is audio
to corporate to be cool.
Dave Jones: Yes, she's an ISO canon. All of my assets are from
her. She's no, she's amazing. And amazingly clear and concise,
in like, pungent voice. It's Yeah, I kind of feel like that
too.
Adam Curry: pungent, pungent voice a good way of describing
it. And, and for me, it's like we just opened up a whole new
category of podcast. And I think it's golden days now for
podcasting. This is the moment to get into this is the moment
to start music shows like this, the ultimate discovery is to
have you know, someone you listen to who's who picks songs.
You may not like them all. But hey, we've made a fast forward
button. We got chapters, all these all these handy little
tools. But you know, it's the ultimate discovery tool for
music. And I know people will be listening to the Musa Graham
ball to see you know what I'm playing. And believe me, I plan
on playing songs I played last week again, because I like them
so much. But you know, it's not like it has to be new music
every single show. No, no, I want people to think oh, yeah,
let's let's do some groovy tunes. But we should have 1000
Music podcast 10,000, especially at this very moment. And two
things are happening. Two things happen. First off, Spotify is
hiking their price. We'll see how that goes for them. That's a
tough one. They're in negotiations with the music
industry now. And yeah, so those guys want a bigger piece of the
pie. So so the whole business model of Spotify is complicated.
Did you see what the what Ainsley Costello posted about
how the performance was a value for value versus the 60 other
platform? She's on? A herd? Is Sam
Dave Jones: quote her but I mean, it sounded like it was
like a 3x time. Yes.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it was 100 More than $100 value for value,
versus $36 on 60 other platforms. And she, I mean, it's
astounding, and I think it's just gonna keep on going.
Because people just love supporting music and the value
for value is exactly is exactly the way you want to go. Because
you'll be surprised how many people will send you more than
you thought you ever deserved. Now the second thing, and this
is sad. This is almost like the Pay Pal pocalypse Patreon had a
super meltdown. When they changed their their, their
processing their merchant processing to an Irish company.
And it's been denying payments of Patriot patrons. You have to
do go through a lot of hoops you have to call your credit card
company because they're seeing all of a sudden a foreign
payment coming through is being blocked. I mean, it's canceling
multiple patron Academy. It's a mess. To medicine.
Dave Jones: This is the Pay Pal pocalypse all over again. Yeah,
except this was not intention. People just don't come back.
Adam Curry: No Oh, absolutely. Oh man. It hurt no agenda real
big. People just went screw PayPal and they just stopped you
know, then they stopped and probably not even thinking that
they had monthlies or, you know, some kind of ongoing sustaining
donation payment going through it. Oh, yeah, that costs us
quite a bit. But understandable. So value for value. Man you I
mean, now we have to take note that not if but when lb goes
down because it'll happen. Oh, yeah, it'll happen. There's
gonna be blood on the moon. And there'll be a lot of unhappiness
for however long it will take for because you know, they're
gonna have some massive nodes thing they'll have to do and
it's going to really suck. Luckily, things can be switched
out relatively easily. And, you know, we don't wish this on
anybody we know that we were we've been around long enough,
this will happen. So we always have to be careful with
centralization.
Dave Jones: But you, but the thing about that, though, is
that nobody's subscriptions are affected by that, because there
are no subscriptions. No, no, I know. All of this stuff is just
it's purely voluntary is it's it's manual, the booster, the
booster grams are manual. The streaming sets are automatic.
You might you would have a temporary ID. Let's just say the
lb pocalypse happens. And now b goes down for you know,
adolescence, say two days. You then then it comes back up. And
the listener just never really knows. It's not a thing that
true not like you get an email that says, Hey, your credit
card, your prescription to x podcast just got right was
denied. Right right. Here, you gotta go do bunch of stuff to
set it all back up. Again, there's a lot of listeners that
aren't going to that are just going to be like, You know what,
I wasn't really listening to it all that much anyway. Yeah. So
yeah,
Adam Curry: it's the inverse. You're so right. I had another
thought. You know, there's still been this. No, because of
course, I pop back on nostre, which might Nasir usage has gone
down by 95%. I don't know. This is just not that interesting, I
guess. But I hopped on to promote the boost ball booster
Grand Ball figuring people would be interested. And that, you
know, I think there was definitely some interest but in
that I saw that. The, I guess I had a thread going with the with
the damos developer, Domus damos, whatever it is,
Dave Jones: oh, he actually responded to you. He Yeah, he is
like I don't exist.
Adam Curry: Oh, and he said quite adamantly, oh, they're
coming for podcasts and two point I don't sure where they're
coming. They're coming, which they haven't. But I was thinking
it's so different. What we're doing it is just because it's
Satoshis. It's completely different. Because this is not a
quick quid pro quo, where you you make a post, you get zapped,
or people say if you post this, I'll zap you. Right? That's,
that's not really this mechanism. Our mechanism is also
the words we use value for value. But as I was I forget, I
was talking to someone about this, about how the Satoshis
this value is really often the numerology. Now I'd say the
numerology is as important as the as the words itself. I mean,
if I just go through and look at 9999212122223333808, your
favorite 2112? You know, 777 1776 1948? I mean, there's a
lot of this. And you know what that is? This has been
determined by the Supreme Court of the United States and
Citizens United that speech money is speech. Oh, value for
value, canceling that from the App Store is a constitutional
violation. Now granted? Granted, they're not granted they're not
the government. But you can make a real case that you're
canceling speech not not payments. But it is boosts and
value for value streaming payments are speech. Go look at
Citizens United that's that's why you know, campaign.
Dave Jones: Is that the one that said like company companies or
people?
Adam Curry: No, I don't think that. Citizens United
conservative nonprofit group called says United challenge
campaign finance rules after the FEC. Thus the federal action
committee stopped it from promoting an airing of film
criticizing presidential candidate Hillary Clinton too
close to the presidential primaries. five to four majority
of the Supreme Court size sided with Citizens United ruling that
corporations and other outside groups can spend unlimited money
on elections because it's speech.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's the one I'm talking about. Yeah, it's
they determined they determined that corporations have unlimited
donation capacity to
Adam Curry: create money, they speak with money money, they
hedge their
Dave Jones: because they're for the for the purposes of yeah,
they are they basically function as People they are persons yeah
in it they have space just like a person then
Adam Curry: they've and they have speech through campaign
finance but ours are so clear because we are literally using
Satoshis as speech Shall we thank a few people while we're
at it while we're let's see what they had to say. Oh yeah sure.
Or do you want to do you want to do another topic first?
Dave Jones: No, no go ahead. Because this will come back I
guess more stuff.
Adam Curry: Okay, because we got a lot a lot that came in while
we were just this shy everyone's happy to see us back.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's true.
Adam Curry: 50,000 from Dred Scott boosting Kalina by Sam
means nice to beautiful so that went to Sam and he did it from
curio caster Dave Jones 800 That must have been to Sam clean as
well. I presume unless it was an imposter.
Dave Jones: well ahead of my lb wallet I feel like a cheapskate
Adam Curry: Wait What happened to your lb wallet man?
Unknown: No, it's dry.
Adam Curry: No more powder 7777 from Mike Newman striper to
boost value times with boosted groovy kuleana on a Friday
afternoon. That's right hard fat 3333 We got sir TJ the raffle
9999 And he says boosting is loving let me see I have that
somewhere. Boosting is loving There you go. Thanks all
involved in the making of podcast 2.0k TLD keep the lid
down
Dave Jones: that's right. I forgot about that. Yeah, I think
we actually in church especially here in church.
Adam Curry: Yeah, we yes in church is down. 2121 from
McIntosh Oh, you had to 2120 ones Dave I looked at the
schema. What's the name of the super busy table thought it was
an episode but I don't see it. And then he says you literally
answered the question. Go podcasting. Boom 808 for Mr.
Robot sending some Bob's over here for testing my man boobs
but I don't know running with scissors. 9999 for Mr. Robot,
the boys are back in town between podcasting. 2.0 and the
boosted ground ball five by five nostrils got nothing on this. Go
podcasting. Todd Cochrane 10,000 sets can IPFS scale to petabytes
per day. Only one way to find out Todd? Probably not right
now. I don't think
Dave Jones: I don't think it can scale.
Adam Curry: Unlimited. I mean, technically.
Dave Jones: It's like lightning in that in that regard. Yeah. I
mean, there's not there's not really an upper limit. As long
as the nodes are there. It's because it's shared bandwidth.
It's, it's shared like it's now shared is not the
Unknown: right word. Distributed.
Dave Jones: I am unsatisfied with all these terms that I'm
trying to use. I have
Adam Curry: a five gigabit fiber connection. And so it'll it'll
come down to machine performance and drive performance I guess
before before I saturate that 17,776 From blueberry can't
speak highly enough of the split kit the split kit.com We can
drop new art on the fly build new chapters for the topic at
hand play bootable music all it will. It's fantastic. Thank you,
Steven B for allowing me to feel like I'm back out on tour
running shows. No, that's right.
Dave Jones: I didn't know bourbon. Or is it okay to have
blueberry here in the sanctuary? That's a little.
Adam Curry: Here's Cameron with 55,555 Who knew value for value
was all it took to make self hosting slash crowd hosting
possible. There it is. Magic Cameron, you created magic
brother, Chad F 3650. This is how many sets I made for my IPFS
node. Wow. That's your bed. A buck. Sweet. Love that. Sir.
Brian have London PhD. 41,948. Israeli boost. I have to talk to
Dave next week about IPFS. Meantime, I'm Mark saved from
exploding lithium batteries on a boat and back to Israel. We're
glad you're alive. Good. Good to hear it. Yes. There's the clip
custodian coming in with 100,000 SATs. Hey, Neil, nice, man.
Thank you, Neil. Thank you. Hey, just says has no note just the
boost.
Dave Jones: That's great guy. We had lunch one day. He is a
Adam Curry: great great guy. 10,000 SATs from see Brooklyn
112 I liked this stuff. Go podcasting. Then we have Mike
Newman. Whoa, Mike Newman gets a big ass baller boost.
202 111,120 is Blaze. Only him Paula. Great having the band
back together. That's it. That's the moose go podcasting. Man.
Thank you. Wow, that's it. That's the boost. That's the
boost right there was 12,121 from dreads Dred Scott pew pew.
Boom, you got it to 33,333 from Eric peepee and there's Dred
Scott with 121,212 pre show boosts hope you guys are well go
podcasting. Thank you drip always there helping us out.
Pfeiffer 6666 Go cod Pat Codd passing trying to mess me up
aren't you? absurdity and with 3333 the pod sage so now be
called the Oracle of knowledge. Dave dropped some knowledge on
the last show go podcasting is Oracle College.
Dave Jones: Don't know about that.
Adam Curry: And let's see. And then the last pre show booth
17,776 from blueberry the elites don't want you to know. But the
goats in the green room are dead. You can massacre them as
we have 761 Dead goats. Okay, yeah, you're right, blueberry. I
don't know if we can have min sanctuary's you're not allowed
if you want to thank some other people that we had come in, or
what do you want to do? I would love
Dave Jones: to Yeah, we can. Let's do a full let's do it.
Yeah, the boys from Buzzsprout BSB $500.
Adam Curry: Oh, man. Thank you so much. Play on I am Paula
highly appreciated. The boys from butterscotch proud. Thank
you.
Dave Jones: They gotta be cooking up something they've
been 2.0 silent for. I didn't too long.
Adam Curry: I did an interview with for the Buzzsprout podcast.
Dave Jones: Oh, Alban. With Alban? Yeah, yeah, how'd that
go? I haven't listened to that episode yet.
Adam Curry: It's actually one of those interviews where he got a
lot out of me that I haven't told before on shows just
different stories. That's kind of hard to do. I mean, I know
Tina is like, so you tell all your stories again, to know
these were some new stories. Funny enough? Yeah. I like he's
a nice guy. sweet guy. Yeah, a lot. A lot. It was all about
podcasting. So if you're interested in that.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So bottom up podcast from being out of town.
Yeah, thanks. Thanks. Jesse Anderson $33. Thank you, Jesse.
Very nice. That's a one time around the pay pals. And we got
Brendan at pod page. Ah, $25 a month subscription, which really
helps. Thank You page.
Adam Curry: Thank you, Brendan. Yep. So I just funny story, I
had Korean the keeper running over on pod page, which actually
cleaned up nicely. And then because it's so easy, you just
have to have an RSS feed and you create a website, you can
connect your your domain name to it. And so I did that for
booster Graham ball. And you have to when you want to connect
to a domain name, it's like there's an extra fee because of
the SSL bull crap they got to put on there. And so you
actually send an email and then like, half of the companies
emailing me back like hey, so cool. We love this. And then
Brendan's like, Hey, man, you know, this is motivating me, I
gotta I gotta step up and put some tags into this. And so we
came up with a whole bunch of tags that are supported. I
haven't messed around with them yet. But now also supporting the
show and the project. Thank you so much, man. Appreciate it.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it was nice to see it's nicely cut. I mean, it
was oh my gosh, six or seven eight tags. I'm like that not
not a bad quite a few. Yeah, routing. Yeah. See, we've got
Oh, we got some boosts we got 1001 set from absurd. Audient
Thank you. There's gonna be a bunch of booths here. No notes.
Thank you. I am robot 3333. A little pre show booth for the
board meeting. Get 22 to 22 big road ducks from Eric BP through
the booths CLI. Thank you to old school 20 To 22 from the
tricolor that's probably the sweet reader Strickler. He says
go podcasting tag. You're it? Yeah, thank you. Oh, here's a
2222 from blueberry. He says spend a summer at Middleton
plantation in Charleston South Carolina. Blacksmithing 10 out
of 10 would recommend if you'd like it hot, heavy and dirty.
Adam Curry: Just give some ducks for these people.
Dave Jones: 22 to 22 a big row of ducks from Uber he says
speaking speaking of chapters based off the testing I did over
the weekend you can take one sick one second just as stack
them one he's
Adam Curry: he's doing animation kind of like a cinema Tron. So
we do a chapter image a new chapter every one second and
then it animates. Nice he's having too much fun with a split
kit is my is my idea.
Dave Jones: Okay, I think I think we've met a read that one
on the last show. Actually. We might have Yeah, on the oh, here
we go. Oh Nitin. Edie 10,000 says he says cuz it's Friday you
ain't got no job and you ain't got shit to do. Doesn't says
they can? That's awesome man. Yeah sir TJ the raffle 9999 says
they bought versus so excited for value for value music it's
all about the value not the money.
Adam Curry: That's right sir. It's just feeling the value.
Dave Jones: Oh he says so here Sir Alex gates, the podcasting
2.0 consultant he says 12,000 SATs and he says already
considering adding PGP keys to feeds for pod bean verification.
Unknown: Sexy
Adam Curry: Can I email you can I email the pod ping the
encrypted
Dave Jones: you can send email yeah pipe things by email that's
a great idea. 17 717 776 from blueberry to fountain he says
Adam I was wanting to hook up boost bot to a shot caller that
we you already read we we did. I'm trying to find the cut off
point here and let's see cuz it was the time zones got messed
up. See 2222 from calm McCormick's is cherry on top
gives me Avril Levine vibes. Total hit boosting is loving.
Interesting. Welcome, Steve.
Adam Curry: I think I think we I think we played that one too.
Yeah, thanks. So
Dave Jones: this is like 7:45pm Oh, maybe I'm wrong. I don't
know. Steve Wilkinson. Great song go podcasting. 2.0 music
2.0 Yes. Podcast. 41st 67 says thank you. Steve Wilkinson,
John's BRT, 25,000 SATs through fountain no note 50,000 SATs
from Khalil, nice to fountain he says love the response to the
Google guy with the podcast definition. My observation in
Germany is that people in general now define a podcast as
a talk show on YouTube, in which the people talk into podcast
mics and have headphones on instead of being miked properly
for video.
Adam Curry: sounds right to me.
Dave Jones: And many of these shows are only available on
YouTube. It's understandable to an extent because how would they
know but also infuriating because YouTube is pushing this
on purpose? Because it's more shows for them for cheap.
Adam Curry: Yeah, but it's not working. No one's having any
success with that. It's just not and now tick tock is doing
something tick tock. You don't stop.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and that'll it least that's RSS based. So yeah,
Adam Curry: it's a promotional tool. I guess that would work.
Yeah, yeah.
Dave Jones: Mere Mortals podcast. 2222. Our buddy Karen
found through found nappy says Adam, just FYI. Joshua Dennis
has an IPFS podcast called podcasting for value. He's on
the PI Mastodon, I believe. I remember he was having to
troubleshoot a lot. So I have some useful info if you walk
into some scissors.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I remember looking at it, but I don't think
it has I don't know where to look at it again.
Dave Jones: Kevin Bay 10,000 says great rock pop tune as a 20
to 22 from Gene Everett says boost
Unknown: Yeah, we got to boost right here. Boost.
Dave Jones: Jake l Jack. Jake l str is send us a big long row of
Richards 11111 Whoa. Boosting the song username is pronounced
Jake Lester Oh, where it is pronunciation and then Jake
Lester. Dave. All right. Boost. Thank you, Jake. In WD and 5000
says like the song cherry on top Yeah, Instagram. Small Sehgal
Richard sorry Joe. Joel who do fountain know note. Boost boost
boost 3333 from bad career advice. Chad. He says AI is not
innovation. It is supplication. It's begging you not to give up
and exit the system. Dave Jones The extreme split that went up
having Amsterdam Boomer 626 500. SAS go podcasting fee for V go
podcast.
Unknown: Yeah, baby V from V.
Dave Jones: Becker vice Chad back again. 10,000 Saasu found
he says absolutely incredible. V four v needs a lot more quality
music like this. I don't know what song that was. Yet. Yeah,
this is the problem. We're getting there. Down there. Of
course. Jeff 10,000 sets the pod verse he says Welcome to pay for
value Ainsley.
Adam Curry: I think she had a good experience. is
Dave Jones: clearly Jean being 2222 Row ducks these cast Maddix
is bring on booster Graham ball. Well it was brought yes it was
Jean beans another 10,000 says I love the value music. We all do.
Gene we all love it man. And he gives another 10,000 It says
enjoying the song and glad to see more people taking a chance
on value for value. Boost Captain egghead 18 110 SATs
through pod versus this time splitting boosting with POD
verse F droid 4.13
Unknown: Yeah, baby F droid stream
Dave Jones: Halleck 1000 SATs the founder says never apologize
for the downer talk Dave. It really resonated with me. Okay.
I feel like I go on and on sometimes and I get boring.
Unknown: No, no, no, no, no, no, no not not at all.
Dave Jones: My only problem with pivot is I want more pivot. Yes,
that's, that's everybody's problem. Nomad Joe 1000 SATs
through. Fountain he says antiwar.com Megan. Thank you.
Oh, Ron Plouffe? The the app for mentioned on the previous show.
That's right. Creator of the stats pages. 50,000 SATs. Oh,
nice, man. Thank you. The family says not related to David
Plouffe.
Adam Curry: We're sorry about that. I'm so sorry.
Dave Jones: Not related to David Plouffe but glad to be the
podcast and people know stats guy
Unknown: yeah, yes. That's guy. Give
Dave Jones: Dave Ronnie's a t shirt. People know stats guy.
Yes. Jean been 4096 to 4k killer boost to gas man. He says I'm a
big fan of log SEC blog seek also Dave. They also have an
open collective based paid tier that enables thinking too hard
to look back at that and then Jean being 2222 says PGP is
great but not for the non techies average people will not
be interested in dealing with it. Well, I think that that
could be obscured right?
Adam Curry: I mean, say
Dave Jones: again you PGP putting that in the in the feed
for the authentication stuff? Yeah. I think that could be a
string Nomad Joe 1000 SATs he's just a sweet thumbs up.
bombshell. Just listening five devices want to look at splits
it hasn't changed in the fountain nap. A we're getting
there man. Okay, we're getting there. We are. Mere Mortals
podcast 2222 says along the lines of Dave's reading. Another
decent book I'd recommend is amusing ourselves to death. Of
course. Postman postman is very book slightly older 1985 But
accurately paints a picture of how various mediums such as TV
by their very nature allow or don't allow for serious
discourse, disrespect the audience and are trending
individuals to a Huxley into dystopia has given me lots of
food for thought to use on the V for V podcast. If Thanks,
brother. Thanks, man. Oh, whoa. Cal a bear 350,000 says
Adam Curry: double baller What is this? What is going on or
booze? What is going on?
Dave Jones: While my intergalactic boombox podcast is
on hiatus, I wonder what conspiracy would my resident
conspiracy theorist would say? I wanted to boost my support to
this show and express my excitement for booster Graham
ball as submitted some vo stingers and look forward to
hearing some more awesome tunes through podcasting 2.0 Kyle a
bear
Adam Curry: he did let me see I had the ground where do you put
what do you what he gave me? He gave me some really cool ones.
Of course I'm falling down on the job now trying to give me it
was funny because he sent me he said hey, I got some stingers
for you. So he sent me the Stingers as all booster Graham
corner. I'm like, hey man, I really appreciate it. But you
know that's kind of James's thing is like and he said Oh no,
I'm I'm I'm a total Dumbo I can't believe it. I was just
confused for a moment so he sent me stuff like this booster grin
bull.
Dave Jones: Booster gram ball Hey guys got
Unknown: pipes. And then this one this one oh stone stone
screws to grab ball. Yeah, I love that. Great stuff, man.
Thank you love it.
Dave Jones: That's killer. See, oh, I hope you didn't pay him
for those because that means he would be a scab. He would be
violating the Oh,
Adam Curry: no, no, no can't do that. No, never never. I never
pay for anything keep us safe knowing pay for gas.
Dave Jones: Anonymous 13,000 says the gas medics is loved. I
loved Dave's talk about AGI but I think the discovery of Bitcoin
is demonstrated that a small amount of code arranged right
can still discover world changing technologies.
Unknown: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Dave Jones: The podcaster says great morning track 500 says
thank you podcaster. See baba, baba BombBomb and 10,000 SATs
says from a Chris You know, I know him but yeah, we all know
Chris. The pod versus is awesome. Hope to hear more.
Thanks. Thank you. Welcome 5151 from River City mystery through
fountain he says go podcasting alien face.
Adam Curry: Alien face.
Dave Jones: More log 11 711 through pod verse no notes.
Thank you Borlaug. 1000 from our Davis at seven to boosting for a
day with Dave Jones. Thank you for your courage,
Adam Curry: which includes lunch and a massage.
Dave Jones: Yes, yes. Massage, not by me.
Adam Curry: 1 million Satoshis lunch and a zoom lunch and a
massage.
Dave Jones: You need to bump that number of Cochran 100,000
sets.
Unknown: Todd, thank you, brother.
Dave Jones: Do the found nappy says hey, gents just finished up
attending a pretty comprehensive artificial intelligence
conference. Don't worry, the world's not ending. The
marketing folks are worried about their jobs. Go podcasting.
You guys heard
Adam Curry: about an hour of the new media show was about that
about?
Dave Jones: I listened to Yeah. Yeah. That was it was good. It
was informative. It
Adam Curry: was very informative. Yes, it was. And to
me, it's just, this is all bull crap. Who cares? It's like, I
don't see any value in. I mean, yeah, as a tool for some things.
But no,
Dave Jones: my favorite is see, I go back to this mental model I
have where so So Todd said that he wrote a blog post by giving
it say, Okay, here's, like, one of the chat GPT like, like
system SeeSnake you know, here's, here's, here's a fact
here's a fact here's a fact these are the points I want to
make now write a blog post and then he went and cleaned it up
and everything. So this this whole model of doing things
wasn't was exposed because James said that he takes these press
releases and and then puts them through jet GBT and says this
short animation of what this means so you've got the guy on
the front end say you know, saying write me a blog post and
then you got the gal on the other end saying take this blog
post and tell me what it means. And basically it's just the the
actual blog post is just an envelope.
Unknown: That's right. It's so true.
Dave Jones: Scott is Cora give us the Van Halen boost 5150
through fountain he says great voice run and catchy. Thank you.
Whoo anonymous 10,000 Sastra Casta Matic no note, Franco Oh,
Unknown: there's your buddy France Franco
Dave Jones: 1000 says his baby says this is the very first
value time split boost tip Oh,
Adam Curry: he's got to work and
Dave Jones: this is the very first value time slip boost test
from Casta Matic running blind on a wet floor with very pointy
scissors
Unknown: Vamsi Oh, nice. I told you he was doing it.
Dave Jones: Okay, I'm getting there. Frank. I'm gonna make
this easier for you man. Give me Give me Tom This is amazing. I'm
so glad to see him working on that.
Adam Curry: What was it what was that mind you said again running
on a wet floor what
Dave Jones: was he a runner a wet floor with very pointy
scissors.
Unknown: That's very cool. Yeah.
Dave Jones: 11 711 from Borlaug no note we got see oh, we
already got one. Oh, we got to delimiter various comic strip
blogger 30 3015 through fountain says howdy Adam and Dave. One of
my top five hobbies apart from a i is drawing cartoons. So I
kindly invite everyone to visit website with my cartoons at WWW
dot CSB dot lol and if you have ideas for cartoons that you'd
like me to draw, please send them to me via Twitter. Direct
Message at Twitter handle CSB. Yo CSB. God extra
Unknown: blog.
Adam Curry: Thank you CSB. And that's the monthlies. Yeah,
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you. Camera cash. He Chad Pharaoh $20.20. Thank you, Chad.
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Dave Jones: did you hear? I read this article? The future of TV
briefing how top streamers ad prices have trended in this
year's upfront negotiations?
Adam Curry: No, no. Did you send me this? I don't think you sent
me this article.
Dave Jones: I thought it did. Maybe I didn't. Okay. It says
Netflix isn't the only streaming service to have lowered its ad
prices during the years upfront negotiations. It's ad prices.
Oh, interesting. In fact, major ad supported streamers across
the board brought down their rates according to agency
executives. agency executives estimated that the amount of ad
dollars committed to streaming in this year is upfront,
increased by five to 10%. But how much advertisers stand to
pay for each ad impression is trending in the opposite
direction. For the agency executives major ad supported
streamers rolled back their ad prices by five to 10%. Wow, more
like 10% for premium products at one agency executive. Wow. So
this this goes there's a lot of good information in here. So
this so before this is like this is last year, so Disney in the
summer of 2022 Disney plus was paying was was getting $50 CPM.
That's okay. Now they're in the 30s to mid 40s.
Adam Curry: I've heard from quite a reliable source that the
streaming companies are delighted with the writer and
actors strike strikes, because they Oh yeah. Oh, yeah, but
could not have come at a better time for them. They're
rejiggering they're using this time to figure out what's
valuable in their already existing catalog and from my
information. The strike could last well into the new year.
Time to start a podcast people
Dave Jones: brutal Yeah, that is brutal. That see. Net see
Netflix. Last year was $55 CPM. Now they're in the low to mid
40s
Adam Curry: Well, there's only one way there's only one way
it's all going to go down I mean that's the problem with the CPM
model it's like how many CPMs Do you want you know it's there's
so much
Dave Jones: let's see the motion the risk
Adam Curry: is too much inventory is not enough being
being filled up I'm sure how much inventory
Dave Jones: yet what it says For starters, this year's upfront
market overall was softer than last year is given the economic
downturn as sellers were more concerned with securing an
overall volume of dollars as opposed to pushing up their
prices per ad. Moreover, in accordance with the law of
supply and demand sellers simply have more streaming inventory to
sell. We thought we seen that pricing come down as they grow
some scale set a second exit agency executive Yeah, I mean
the more the more you produce the like the the I think the if
you try to take these seasons and go from like six episodes
that they are now back up to like 2527 episodes like it used
to be just make the problem worse.
Adam Curry: And that's the problem with the writers than
not getting you know the too many writers first of all,
everyone look everybody loved it. When the streamers were
flushed with cash they had all the cheap money now the cheap
money's gone and oops, there's a problem there's too many writers
it's probably too many actors for the amount of work that
there is and and the streamers are Silicon Valley guys we know
their model give us your creativity. Here's nothing.
That's that's the model they've thrive on. And for late night
TV, you know, that's all gone. I think people have not already
switched over to look watching Tik Tok and ignite embed, but
whatever. No, I think there's never been a better time to
start a podcast. I mean, you maybe even a video thing. I
mean, I wouldn't ever advise anyone to go over to to YouTube
just because of the way they mess with your head. And I was
like, Oh, you're popular. Good. Now we're going to be we're
going to push you down in the algorithm. If you don't create
more content, you know that they put people on a hamster wheel.
So
Dave Jones: no those those guys look ragged the ones that have
to produce content yes times a day everybody
Adam Curry: has to once you to get started over there, you have
to do it. Otherwise the algo just punishes you. It's
horrible. It's slavery, digital slavery.
Dave Jones: This. So I've got this idea and we've briefly
discussed this on and off, like, for a while. Okay, but I think I
finally have an idea of what I'm going to do
Adam Curry: for your show for your show.
Dave Jones: Oh, n n n n, and this is on the API. Okay.
Adam Curry: Are you going to do your show while I'm on vacation?
Dave Jones: I don't know. Okay. I don't know. I feel like I need
to do something. Because I mean, you're you're gonna be a
vacation for three weeks.
Adam Curry: Tina actually said, can she just sneak one in? I'm
on vacation. She wants me to work. Like, you know, you should
you should speak on.
Dave Jones: sneak one in. He's just sneak one in.
Adam Curry: That was my overall plan on vacation, baby. Trust
me.
Unknown: One, why don't we go? There it is. There it is.
Dave Jones: Okay, so my idea is it here's Okay, here's the
problem I'm trying to solve and hold on.
Adam Curry: Let's let's do this. Right. Okay. Since this is a
secret thing you're talking about?
Dave Jones: Are we in a skiff?
Unknown: Where the skiff Yes. Short Skiff.
Dave Jones: Robert hours, Bobby, the k must be in here. We can't
have him talking where everybody else can hear. So if here's what
there's a problem I'm trying to solve. I want to get I want to
have a popularity score. I don't like this word. I'm gonna say it
from the beginning. This is a shitty word. Okay. I don't care
about necessarily about popularity. Okay. Let me log in.
Let me start over. It's not popularity that I'm one of
these. Okay, these are these Rancors and branch.
Adam Curry: I was just about to say, You mean a rancor? Yes.
Dave Jones: I don't want a rancor. Uh, but but there is
there is value in finding out what people listen to, you know,
on the regular? Because, if, I mean, if 50,000 People listen,
or subscribe to a podcast, I mean, it's, it's probably pretty
good. I mean, it's, it's probably decent content. So, you
know, versus something that's been around for 10 years and 100
people subscribe to it. Just like you, you can get you can
glean some stuff from this is what I'm trying to say. Okay.
So, we and that's thing, that's a thing that we have never been
able to have, we don't know, in a direct way, what shows are
actually being subscribed to. So my, you know, I've talked about
this before, I want a way to get some of that information. So
that we can begin to make the index feel the feel better and
give data back, like, hey, what's popular? What are people
listening to? What are the, you know, what are these, like, give
some notion as to what other people are doing?
Adam Curry: Can I Can I ask you a philosophical question? Since
we love since we're in the skiff. This is a new idea. I
love that by the way. Who are you creating this score? I'm
just gonna call it the score for apps. Okay, that is
substantially different from anything else. So I'm liking
that.
Dave Jones: Okay. And here's, here's why. It here's why it's
important to me right now. Because of music. Music and
here's a problem that I ran into over over the weekend. And I
feel like this would have helped. So I listen. I subscribe
to this podcast America this week with Matt Taibbi and Walter
Kern and it's one of my favorite shows. He every week they
discuss a short story. This week. They discussed the story
Bartleby the Scrivener by Herman Melville. And each week when
they discuss this, I go through the same process. I look first
on the pod cost index. And I look to see if there's any open
source like Librivox, or any audio books that have already
read this, because a lot of the stories they talk about are in
the public domain. Okay? And then if I go, if I can't find it
there, then I will go to Audible. Because they're usually
pretty short. So what I do is they say, Hey, what's this
week's story? Let's talk about it. I hear what the story is. I
pause the podcast, go look for the story somewhere else and on
the index. If you can't find it there, then go to Audible.
Listen to the story first, and come back and listen to them
discuss it.
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Cuz you want to hear you want to
read it, quote, unquote, Here, read it. And then you want to
hear the discussion?
Dave Jones: Yeah. Yep. And it's fun. I love it. So that's,
that's my typical day. So when I went to the index and searched
for Bartleby, the Scrivener, it came back with a lot. A lot of
results. Probably 10 or 12. I don't remember. You know, and
just like any audio book thing, the narrator is done is 99% of
the experience. I mean, yeah, that matters, right? Yeah.
Especially when it comes to open source, like Librivox type
stuff. There's a lot of bad readers. Yes. Yeah. Thank you
for doing that taking the time, but you're not great. So it
would be wonderful to have some sort of popularity score, that's
real. That would say, they would tell you, they would at least
rank now, the first let's just say it ranks them in order of
popularity, based on subscriber count. Let's say that the first
one that you you don't like that narrator. But there's a good
chance that they at least the ones on the bottom are not going
to be good. You might just want to skip them. So this is what
I'm saying. Like we need I feel like we need some sort of way to
organize these results.
Adam Curry: The situation input is the input something we get
from the apps like in Yeah, event.
Dave Jones: Yes. So that's, that's what I was wanting to do.
And so the, here's the idea. Here's my initial idea that
there's just an endpoint, that an app can submit just a submit
a file, essentially, like a CSV file. And I will prescribe the
format that this that this file takes. And it's just a list.
It's just feed ID, subscriber count, feed ID subscriber count.
And it could be feed ID, it could be good. It can be Feed
URL, it can be hell, it can be iTunes ID, I don't care. So
there would be this this list. And it can be something other
than a CSV I'm not, I'm just describing a concept. But then
that they would submit that file to the index. And there's no
user data in anywhere in this. It's just purely such a list of
here. Here's here, all the feeds that our system currently shows
and how many people are subscribed to each one. If we
had that, and we could aggregate that from any apps willing to
give that back. It could create a truly open source. Popularity
rank ranking type. Pizza database didn't, did we haven't
had? Yeah. Because all these all these existing rankings and
popularity is nonsense. They're all tied to. They're all tied to
like Apple and Spotify and all these other companies. So here,
this would be something. Go ahead.
Adam Curry: No, no, go ahead. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to
interrupt. I'm done. I'm done. So yes, VB VB is looking at me
like dude, is two hours already I gotta pay I got Okay, so what
I've the way I think this would work best because what I would
hate to see is all of a sudden there's a page and someone says
here's the most subscribe to podcasts. Right? Because then
you've just basically created an Uber rancor that everybody would
love and me that's going to have people jacking the system is
like subscribe, you know, as then you get the Everyone views.
You got to subscribe that ascribe discovers gotta I you
know, just all of that crap. If it is something that is
incorporated in the way the API so I don't want a rancor on
podcasts index either. It can return results in the API
endpoint, which could be just search or search by but that at
no point can someone aggregate all of this data and say, here's
the rancor. What are you laughing at?
Dave Jones: Me this drop a new Cold subscribe button.
Adam Curry: Exactly. John, do you know what I mean? is like,
yeah, this would be very, very good to have a an API endpoint
that returns search results by subscription count. But that you
can't just go to the index and say, give me all the Most
Popular The Most subscribe to podcasts.
Dave Jones: Yes, that's okay. You, you've said that better
than I did. The, because that's the one thing that we've always
struggled to provide, since we don't have first party data is
like the, what's the what's the goal of the index? If the index
itself is to? When somebody searches for something, we want
them to find it? And that's what this would do?
Adam Curry: It Right. It makes it makes our search better. And
also, and and honestly, I, I don't even want that search to
work on our site to be quite, I don't want to be the place. That
would, to me, that's, it's all philosophical, right? It's all
about who we are. And what we do. I want apps, I want the apps
who use our API, I want them to be able to return kickass
results. I don't want people coming to him. I mean, it's a
double edged sword, because of course, I want people to use the
index, I want us to be able to use the index. So you know,
that's up for discussion. But the ultimate goal of this and we
also it's we won't export that table. I just don't want anyone
to create the rancor. I don't want all these apps and all
their the trust that their users put in them to be create someone
else's business. That Silicon Valley nastiness, you know what
I mean?
Dave Jones: For sure, yeah, that's so the idea exactly. The
idea here is when if an app will give us back the subscriber
counts,
Adam Curry: then they get access to better search results, better
search results.
Dave Jones: I love that nobody else gets it. Everybody else
gets better search results too. Yeah, they're just contributing
to better it makes the it makes us better for them
Adam Curry: to be better. That's that would be I think that's a
great idea. Yeah, and
Dave Jones: there will never be rancor. Yep. Let's let's get
Adam Curry: into warm it's getting warm in here. Hold on.
Cool Breeze SQF is warm business man. All right, Phoebe's gotta
pee to $2.07 here on the clock it's good to have you back Dave
I'm so sorry. I'm going to be gone for the next couple of
weeks I think I would like to slip on in for you baby. So I
will I will let you know if we can slip on in cuz they will I
will have the rig with me there will be there will be production
going on. But it sounds like you're going to be mando busy as
well with your your schema and all this stuff. So we'll see.
We'll see how it comes along. How it feels I mean I'm honestly
I can't believe that I just started boosted grand ball. I
won't be doing that either. Maybe off the slip. What I mean
why don't I just pretend I'm on vacation. Just sit in the
studio.
Dave Jones: That's what I did. Just you know if you if you feel
Froggy. Heads up, give me a heads up,
Adam Curry: brother. I love you. I love doing this with you. I
love what we're achieving. And everybody who's who's listening.
Thank you all so much for being a part of this grand scissor
scissoring experiment. We saw a lot of fun. All right. Have a
great weekend, brother. All right, everybody in the chat
room. Have a great weekend. Thank you all we will see if we
can slip on in stay tuned. We'll be back soon with more
podcasting 2.0
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