Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0 for September 8 2023, episode
145 value datian Hello everybody once again time for the board
meeting of podcasting 2.0 The only boardroom that has zero
stock certificates and only one heart out today everything going
on with podcasting yeah you know that RSS stuff podcasting,
everything happening a podcast index.org podcast index dot top,
the namespace and of course all the happenings in podcasts index
dot social I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill
Country and in Alabama the man whose middle initials are T L V
Sanbona. My friend on the other end ladies and gentlemen the one
and only Mr. Jones
Dave Jones: this week the road caster is fully operational
Adam Curry: it is we did a quick little
Dave Jones: master.
Adam Curry: We did a little a little tweaking and it sounds
good. Yeah, I mean, it really sounds good. Do you have a noise
gate on this thing? You have a noise gate setup
Dave Jones: that can do it. I got no This thing's been out of
the box for a maximum of 15 minutes. Oh, so we
Adam Curry: can still freeze up is what you're saying? Yeah.
Dave Jones: I'm gonna get I'm gonna get the boot halfway
through
Adam Curry: the show. So this is the this is the they sent you a
new one, I presume?
Dave Jones: Yes, they did. They called the B b&h photo people
and they
Adam Curry: they went Oh, yeah, okay, we know what that is.
Dave Jones: I said I submitted a ticket with Ro And they're like,
Ah, don't don't don't bother with that. Don't just send you a
new one.
Adam Curry: doesn't talk to anybody.
Dave Jones: They they did respond to my email about late
last night. Oh, yeah, that was about a week later.
Adam Curry: Okay, was better No, I mean, I've reached out to many
times nothing just the Oh really? No Yeah, no yeah, no
nothing
Dave Jones: nothing no, you're just the pod father and me well,
what would
Adam Curry: you are the pod sage? You'd expect somebody to
do to respond somehow but I guess I
Dave Jones: guess oddly enough they didn't seem to realize that
Adam Curry: that did you shocking. Did you send out your
tweet and everything to do all that stuff?
Dave Jones: I'm literally doing it well. You felt you felt it?
Yeah.
Adam Curry: Yes indeed. So a lot of stuff going on while you're
doing that. We are letting live Hello chat room. We're not lit
what we're doing what what is someone saying this? This is Oh
I'm in the wrong chat room. Here we go. There we go. People like
you're not go away. Are we late? Yeah, why are you here? Yeah,
what are you doing? This has no agenda go away. Okay. All right.
So are we good here? Yes, we're good. You weren't it says we're
not lit. What do you mean I'm not lit? I am lit I pinged
everything and said good to go. Let me check again. Then let me
see. Says live Yes, I did that. I saved that I published the
fee. I'll just do it again. Just just to prove the point. Why
not?
Dave Jones: You aren't. Quote cotton gin. You are not lit.
Adam Curry: Yeah. It's not a helpful error message. Cotton
Gin. I don't know what that means. Yes, he's mean like I'm
like me personally, I'm not lit. No, I'm not lit. I stopped doing
drugs in November last year. Sam Sethi
Dave Jones: said I was gonna watch rugby otherwise.
Adam Curry: Is he in the chat room? Is he the chat? Yeah,
Dave Jones: no, he's on he's on the mastodon. Oh, good to know
that we preempt the rugby
Adam Curry: now I do not forget to lit I didn't forget to lead I
did it. I lit it up. I lit it up by fire that thing up loud.
Anyway, so there's a lot going on in the world, but before we
sit talk about anything do you have your list from last week? I
had a heart out and and then there's all the stuff that you
want to talk about. We wound up talking about funny enough about
the road caster and a lot about the music stuff. You had some
other important things on the list.
Dave Jones: Let me look at us.
Adam Curry: They were so important. Gotta look at the
list. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Well, you know, I still set I still I still sound
like a robot. But I don't understand. So I'll figure that
out.
Adam Curry: You don't sound like a robot here. That's what's kind
of weird.
Dave Jones: It's actually kind of bothersome because it's
really it's, it's it's distracting me. I don't know.
I'll figure it out. I'm gonna get over it because
Adam Curry: well, no, if it's distracting you we can we can
fix that. I'm good. But because cuz you did hit the robot button
earlier.
Dave Jones: Is that stuck with me that this that makes me sound
like a woman? Yeah.
Adam Curry: Is Is that what you're hearing in your
headphones?
Dave Jones: No, no, no. I mean, the buck like I said, this
thing's been out of the box for 15 minutes and I couldn't even
get it hooked up to my computer through USB but I did manage to
find the sound effects so you can see what's important to me.
Adam Curry: Well, I'm just make sure all other faders are down.
How about that?
Dave Jones: All other faders are down. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So if you look at your screen, there's nothing
else should be open except for the chat bubble and your and mic
one.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I've got Mike one. Okay. Yeah. Mike one's all
the way up at the at the zero. It's like, at the neutral
position.
Adam Curry: Yeah. No, but it sounds feels to me like
something else is open that you're unaware of.
Dave Jones: This is probably true. It seeing is how
everything is unaware of.
Adam Curry: Well, do you see any other white lines on your
faders? Or is is everything down at the bottom?
Dave Jones: Well, okay, so there's over on the right hand
side, there's these three. On the screen. I'm at the screen.
On the screen. There's the you know, there's like USB one, chat
and USB two.
Adam Curry: Right. So chat should be open. Everything else
should be closed.
Dave Jones: Well, USB one has a red, like mute symbol, like,
slash? Speaker. That's good. Yeah, it's muted. Yeah, chat has
nothing. It's good. Like, there's no icons. That's good.
That's good. and USB two has a slash through this to this
speaker. Okay, that's good. Yeah, okay. All right. Well,
then it must be your ears. Just me. I'm just crazy.
Adam Curry: Alright, who knows what's going
Dave Jones: on? Powering forward, but,
Adam Curry: but if it's hard for you to talk, then I want to fix
it.
Dave Jones: It's not hard for me to talk. I'm good with that. You
know, maybe I'm too loud in my own headphones. Okay. Because
the I prefer to for me to be lit for my volume to myself to be a
little bit lower and you to be jacked. Okay. I need you loud
and me soft.
Adam Curry: That's what she said. Okay, so, so bring your
mic down. And
Dave Jones: if I bring my mic down, that's gonna miss you
Adam Curry: know, I'll now raise it up here. It's no problem. Go
ahead.
Dave Jones: So my mic to me now. It's still it's still doing it.
That's that didn't have an effect.
Adam Curry: But you didn't do anything? Did you lower your
mic? I didn't see anything. Yes, I did. Okay, so it's lower and
it didn't get it didn't get less loud in your headphones.
Dave Jones: It did. But I still sound like I'm gonna cough
again.
Adam Curry: That may just be the sound.
Dave Jones: Do I normally sound like I'm in a
Adam Curry: coffee? Oh, you don't sound like you're in a
coffee camp? I think that's because the sound is crazy. No,
I don't I have no idea. But I'll figure this out. I'll get it
figured as long as it's not a delay as long as it's just a
coffee can because you don't sound like you're gonna be a
Dave Jones: delay. IQ. That's a good point. It could be a delay.
It could be a slight delay. That's the issue. That was
Adam Curry: my thinking is like this. You're hearing something
coming back. See, this is riveting. Either way. Everyone's
excited about we could have done this before. I didn't know it
was
Dave Jones: technically could not have though, because I only
unboxed it, you know, 10 minutes before the show. I'm serious. I
can power through this.
Adam Curry: Okay. All right. All right. Well, we will have to get
it fixed. Okay, to two big pieces of news. I'll start us
off with the news of the day. The news of the day, the news of
the day, clubhouse.
Dave Jones: That's, there's news about the club. Yeah.
Adam Curry: I was like I just always like to when when I was
right about something, just like to stomp it in people's face.
Oh, did
Dave Jones: they shut down? Do they
Adam Curry: know they're pivoting from live audio to
group messaging? That's stupid. And I just want to remind
everybody how jacked and Judy you all were about these things?
It's the future of podcasting. Oh, yeah. Scragg is fantastic.
Yes. This is that this is that. This is where all podcasts will
be done.
Dave Jones: clubhouse they, they're basically what anchor
was. The anchor did this to they they have a buddy who's in a
startup. It's, I'm sorry to hear. Well, he wasn't a startup,
but they they pretty much shut down.
Adam Curry: I'm not laughing about them. But yeah, I'm
laughing about it. That's how it goes. And just no more money.
can't feed the beast. Yep. And he
Dave Jones: was like, he was like, we just we've only got
we're supposed to have like 25,000 users at this point.
We've only got 270. And I was like, Well, you know, it sounds
like you're just you just need to switch from this thing to
this, like this other thing. He's like, Well, as I didn't
know, he didn't understand the pivot. He didn't understand how
to pivot. So he's talking to these other guys who were in
start these startup developers and they were like, oh, yeah,
we've we've pivoted like 15 times. He's like our original
product is not like that was that was like 16 pivots ago,
where now he knows like we started as a live streaming
online. And now we're like a, you know, healthcare app.
Adam Curry: The pivot that he should have made it should you
call it one of these 50 companies that will do fake
signups for you. Just before the board meeting this is this is
what Silicon Valley is rife with. It's like, Hey, man, our
metric with our VC is it's either a number of users, number
of x's, you know, whatever your KPIs are, and then you just go
out and buy it, and then you go raise more money.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's what that's that's the, that's not a
whole lot different from the music streaming model. We're
Adam Curry: gonna get to that in a moment. The second piece of
news is, and again, I mean, I could see this coming down
Broadway podcast one, finally. And they didn't really have an
IPO. They spun out of Live was it live something one, whatever
that's called
Dave Jones: Live one, live
Adam Curry: one. So they didn't raise money. Because normally a
public offering is where you, you sell all the stock and you
raise money. So this was all insiders, as far as I can tell.
And, you know, they rang and I was, look, I'm excited for
anybody to go public, I've done it is a it's a very tough path.
Because, you know, you project your numbers every quarter, and
then you have to hit the numbers and you're scrambling to hit the
numbers. And by the time you hit the numbers, like we got to
start working on the next quarter. And it's a net it's
like, just like it's like a YouTube algo only with real
money and lots of angry people who own your stock. And it's
just as bad if you over project so if people think oh, it's
great, we beat our numbers that's actually not a good
thing. Because they say well, how come you couldn't predict
it? You have to be able to be idiots Yeah, if it's you know,
you got to have a good reason for the
Dave Jones: surprise. Or it must have been a fluke. Exactly and
Adam Curry: so I saw them on this all these people are
ringing the NASDAQ Bell this morning. That's cute and and
then the stock was just not hitting the tape of like,
where's it where's it that's always a bad sign. One because
that means there's some issue with the pricing so the they
were priced at $8 to come out at $8 and not hitting the tape
means they haven't started trading that which means the
underwriter whoever is the market maker for the stock
doesn't have the buyers to support the $8
Dave Jones: Oh, oh yeah. If you can't get an initial trade then
you have no price Yeah,
Adam Curry: well so the price so it was I've been I've been
through a pricing is very it's very harrowing. You know, it's
like it because you have all kinds of insiders who have
agreements like hey, man, you gotta cut this got to commodity
dollars. Yeah, but you got to hold don't flip it. Everyone
lies everyone lies in this game. And it's horrible. And these
guys had a rough ride this morning. They finally came out
around see what time they came out? They came out at 1118 1115
is when they hit the tape at $8 plunged immediately to under
five and a half then when they were when as low as $4.10 Yeah,
they had four trading halts last time I looked which means you
know there's it's so volatile that they that you know there's
this is the this is the free market everybody Oh crap. People
are losing their shirts. It's our guys hold it stop the
training. Yes, it's so free. Yeah. Free. Yeah. Complete open
market for free market
Dave Jones: was this pod sees? Yes. Yeah. Pod see?
Adam Curry: Yeah.
Dave Jones: Is it $4.14?
Adam Curry: Yeah, for 49 right now. So that's so that's a fair
price, then that would be the price but a lot of people got
screwed. Especially if they knew because I think that they were
trying to lure a lot of podcasters in like, hey, you
know, we'll give you the stock and who knows what the insider
price was? I guess we could figure it out. But for people
who were thinking they got it at eight bucks. You know, that's
that's quite a hurtful day. And it just doesn't look at this
will take many quarters to get this backup over the IPO price.
Dave Jones: Well, they're still 10 times more than BuzzFeed. So
they're all good.
Adam Curry: Plus, are they completely bankrupt? Are they
completely gone?
Dave Jones: There's stuck is it 36 cents? Just interesting to be
on the side of my screen? Yeah, yeah.
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's too bad. Well, they should do what
what apparently what apparently everybody is doing is scam Hey,
I mean, holy crap, you and I had a, we've had some conversations
with some artists and people in the music business and who have
kind of flocking to us. Which is is beautiful to see and and the
excitement in value for value music being played on podcast,
there's a there's certainly excitement from podcasters who
are like, how do I do it? How do I do it? I don't understand
split kids so hard. What? Which is all true.
Dave Jones: All true. 100% True, yes.
Adam Curry: 100%. And I'm just getting email after email on
hey, how do I get considered how can I how can you? How will you
play my song? And so I said, Well, here are the four places
you can get your music up. And, and along the way, holy crap,
and we gotten a look into what's happening, how it works. It
let's put it this way. Value for value music on podcast, there is
no competition. It is a complete blue sky open field. There's no
Greenfield, Greenfield blue sky, there is nothing stopping
anybody from being successful. Because Spotify and the
streaming platforms is a humongous scam. And, I mean, the
takeaway is, if you want to even be considered to hit the
algorithm, you've got to have 10,000, what they call streams,
which I guess is listens, people listening. And who knows if that
means for one second for a whole song or whatever. But with
Spotify, I'm just using Spotify as the example of which Spotify
will disqualify any at random what they say, oh, no, that's
not a valid stream. Because of course, the minute you're an
artist, you get all kinds of emails from all these companies,
the same ones that have been doing this for Silicon Valley
companies for years, hey, you know, we can we can get your
5000 streams and get you and get you 50 streams, we'll get you on
a playlist, it's important to be on the playlist, the top
playlists will get you blogs, and everything costs money. And
then you still have to release a new track every five weeks,
five, every five weeks, you have to release new music, otherwise,
the algo drops you This is horrible.
Dave Jones: So we already know that we already know that the
streaming companies like Spotify, did they down? They
don't want you streaming the big stuff. Because they have that
they have to pay for that. Right? So they want they what
they want is for playlists that we saw were like I think cash is
probably been about a year ago that we watched a video where
this guy kind of went through it. And he said, if you start a
playlist, let's just say fame, like a jet hot jazz. And then
the first four or five songs will be songs that you didn't
you know, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know that I know, these bands.
By the time it gets to like Song 10 it you don't know any of
these artists anymore? They're,
Adam Curry: they're just, they're all people who have paid
to be on that playlist. Right? And that
Dave Jones: that's so that's the streaming company not they don't
need to. This is my opinion. They don't need to. They don't
have to pay out for that. Correct. So they they want.
They're getting paid. Yeah. So you don't like they don't have
to pay the royalty they're getting that like the money's
coming back to them. It's they don't they're not they're giving
out their let's say, what would you what would you call that
they're giving preference to the lower tier artists that are
having to pay to get in the game. So they don't have to make
a payout. Instead, they're getting paid. Yeah, it's such a
scam. If you
Adam Curry: look at really what's going on here, Spotify, I
think they do about $3 billion a quarter in, in in revenue. And
something like $800 million is left over in gross gross profit.
So this you know that the people who own Spotify who own the
shares and who have all the back end deals are the labels. So you
know, if you're if you're signed to a label, which by the way you
label will not even consider you unless you have a million social
network followers. Because they need that to trigger all the
algos. I mean, it's all so insidious, that actually the
labels they control the money flow, they control everything.
Oh, it's just time to suck out 800 million Yeah, a time to suck
out a billion dollars. It's this month and they just spin up the
algos and then it's all their stuff. And then you know,
they're artists, they have the publishing they, they own all of
it. And that's why people are left with nothing. Right? The
whole thing is basically a business huge scam that people
are very tired of. And now I understand the enthusiasm.
Because, you know, here, it can imagine if Shawn had 10,000
streams of a value for value song. It mean, even even at
today's low sat level just streaming out even booster
grams, you'd be doing pretty good.
Dave Jones: You know, I think that this has got to do more
with that I want to say this, I mean, people coming, getting
excited about value about value for value and about podcasts and
people to music. I think it's got more to do with it. It's got
less to do with money and more with appreciation. Yes. And just
the straightforward nature of it. Yeah, like, there's no, the
lack of games. Here. You just you just like, Okay, you, you,
you put it you put your music up. And then it goes out and
people either listen, or they don't know, there's nothing.
There's no brokers in here trying to broker traffic. And
it's just, it's a pure peer to peer like, like creator to
listener connection. So like, if you're for us, like we're on
the, you know, like on the top 100 chart, what we've been
building here is that I was noticing you can you could lie
in boost in, like send a whole bunch of booths. But you can't
lie about the amount. Right? Sats are what they are. Our our
lightning node gets the gets a lightning transaction. So there
was some there was there was there were Satoshis there. And
you can't pretend that there were more or less what it is, I
mean, like the transactions is just what it is. So there's no
gamesmanship, because there's no way if you run your own, like in
the most pure sense of this, if you run your own node, and then
you publish your own feed with your own music, you either get
paid or you don't write, there's nobody telling you, oh, well, we
paid you off of this amount of streams. But really now we
figured out that you that you had 1000 Less streams. So we're
going to we're going to take a chunk of your money away.
There's no brokerage.
Adam Curry: But besides that, we've you don't have to, to get
airplay on today's radio stations. Forget about it. First
of all, all these stations are owned by heart. You know, so you
have to go through the iHeart system if you want to be added.
You know, it's like oh, every Tuesday there's a that's when
all the labels and they're independent record promoters if
there's still any left that calling all the stations Hey,
man, you got to add this record, it's really important is great.
It's popping in and people are talking about it in Idaho. And
you know, the artist is going on tour and there's stuff that
stopped bubbling under added added added added. And there's
only room for a couple of ads. Now of the 100,000 new songs
that come out every week. In reality that people add to
Spotify or whatever or per month I mean, it's huge amount of
tracks. There's only so much that that you can get added to a
limited number of radio stations within your limited format.
Imagine you can't just be putting your hip hop record on
the country station now so it's all very segmented it's all in
it's all they're all in it. They're all in the it's much
worse than I imagined it was I had no idea how bad this gotten.
And I think that probably some Spotify podcast business maybe
working the same way but with fake streams and gosh knows what
else.
Dave Jones: He made a comment about the being so attached to
social media like yet to have, you know, a million Tik Tok
followers or something like that. That was johnsburg like
yesterday in the podcast indexed a social I posted a clip from
Mark ask Mark Asquith podcast where he's lamenting, you know,
I don't want to get into these lamenting how people are so
belligerent about a podcast.
Adam Curry: Oh, he was clearly talking about now. He's clearly
talking about me.
Dave Jones: And no, I don't think I listened to the whole
episode. Oh, did you specifically
Adam Curry: Oh, we did because I made a comment. I boosted the
new media show. The reason why I thought it was about me is
because he said snark and I, and I had listened to the I'll get
into it for a second. Anyway, I listened to the new music, the
new media show as I do all the time. And Todd wasn't there. It
was Rob and he had some someone on I forget. She was from some
podcast company. And and Rob was doing his shield dance. He's
like, Well, you know, it's generational, that you have to
have RSS people consider YouTube a podcast. And I boosted like,
who are you? That was cool, are you? And let's just separate.
Let's just separate it out. I don't I don't care what people
call a podcast. I'll go on Joe Rogan. And I will say, Yep,
you're a podcast even though he's not. But if you're in the
business, the whole point is to protect what we're doing. And if
you're teaching people Oh, yeah, YouTube's a podcast. Oh, yeah.
Spotify is a great place to put your music. No, you won't be
running around in a hamster wheel there. You're doing people
a disservice. That's my point. And I got a little I forgive
Rob, but I get a little irked when he says, it's generational.
IE, you're an old fuck. That's what that's what that means.
Generational.
Dave Jones: This is the prediction. Urban Dictionary.
Generational means your your
Adam Curry: give my language?
Dave Jones: Yes. Well. Yeah. So he's, so mark specifically
excluded you he said, about two thirds of the way through, he
said, No, I'm not. I'm not talking about, you know, the
podcasting. tuple No, people gave in. Okay, all right. All
right, you're doing stuff. They're actually doing stuff.
You know, all the time. They're working to make this big. But
you know, he specifically
Adam Curry: wasn't Donald, okay, because I started listening to
it. And I'm like, I just, I just gonna get mad. So I turn it off.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but, but I think your point is my point as
well, which is, and I think Mark was, was confusing, a whole lot
of different topics all together.
Adam Curry: It's also easy to do that when you when your company
has been bought, and you're getting a salary. I just point
that out. It's a lot easier to talk and to criticize.
Dave Jones: Well, the heat. So you know, one of the, one of the
points he can make him was if he told if we want this to be an
industry if we want this industry to get talking. It
sounded like he's talking to industry people. Yeah. And if
that's the case, then I'm sort of I'm sort of of the opinion
that there actually is no podcast industry.
Adam Curry: Where do you there's no industry? That's the podcast
industry industrial complex. Yes. But that, but there's no
industry. I agree.
Dave Jones: And that is all. So what, what has what happens is,
people begin to allow the definition of what a podcast is
to be changed in order to follow the digital advertising your
money, the money. Exactly. If, if the if the people in the
podcast industrial complex, who are responsible for doing these
reports, and these surveys in and there's a whole ton of them,
there's, you know, Edison of Signal Hill inside Magellan. I
mean, there's just there's these
Adam Curry: people who say it's a $2.3 billion business, which I
can't find the money.
Dave Jones: Yeah, exactly. It's, there's so many people who are
sort of tracking, podcasts, podcast, podcasting, as if it's
an industry as if it's an industry that is solely
dependent upon digital advertising revenue. If that's
your mindset, if that's your model, that if you're one of
these companies, and that is your model that the podcast that
podcasting consists of media distribution, that is supported
monetarily by digital advertising revenue, if that's
your definition of podcasting. It makes perfect sense to be
aggravated when people say that YouTube is not a podcast. Yeah.
Because actually, you need that you need YouTube to be a
podcast, because you're red, because you're, you've defined
it that way. Yeah, but so but the danger here and this is the
danger here is what has happened to the music industry. Exactly.
The music industry is now attached to social media, like
tick tock in a way it has become it has evolved to have a
umbilical cord
Adam Curry: it's a plantation. Yes.
Dave Jones: to So to social media, specifically tick tock in
such a way that the music industry literally cannot
survive without social media. Now,
Adam Curry: the guys who used to give the early Stax record, even
probably early mode, I would want to have a motor but the
early early music guys who had the distribution, which was
trucks, and who had the recording facilities who would
give their artists a catalog Back, they would have loved what
is what this has become. It is so sophisticated. And I'll bet
you the music, the music, the labels, they probably own the
scam companies that by you that by YouTube streams and playlist
positions have wouldn't put it past them at all. Now or their
or their cousin or their brother or someone else owns it's so
it's so it's so sad. Because I mean even if you if you get some
so forget the fact that you get paid on streams, you have to
have 10,000 A month every month. The fact that his
Dave Jones: stream was removed happens to be the same number as
what YouTube required for monetization. This 10,000
Number. Isn't that
Adam Curry: interesting? I think it's also downloads on podcast
if I'm not mistaken. Yep. I think it's the same
Dave Jones: 1000s Yeah, just arbitrary number that follows
everybody around the digital advertising about that.
Adam Curry: Whereas, I mean, I saw it with a relatively new
artist, Jeff Smith. Jeff's not a new artist. But Jeff has been
around Jeff is in Nashville. Jeff knows everything Jeff has
seen it all. And he's a performing musician. He does
crazy pianos. Sometimes he tours with the band. He drives to I
think Cleveland once every two weeks to do like four days of
crazy dueling pianos there. I mean, he's a working musician.
Now, when Jeff sees SATs coming in, he knows he's not going to
feed his family off what he just got. But he's super excited.
He's like, people are listening, I can see this, this coming in
in real time. For people who are hearing the pew pew in the
background, that's that's heli pad. That's people who are
listening and sending Satoshis in real time, that is actually
booster grams. So that that, yeah, that its value. Dacian.
There you go. There's my term, value Dacian I gotta write that
you just do that. validation, I'm writing it down, like
infotainment, only different value datian It makes you feel
good. And then when you see hey, wait a minute, there's, you know
if, and this, this is the beauty. Because it'd been many,
many, many projects where people put their music up and solicit
payments, I think the Patreon you can still do that on
Patreon. There's been crowdfunding for albums, all of
that works, but at scale to be able to create something this is
where podcasting comes in. This is this is where it happens. We
there is no competition. Radio guys can't do this. They will
not understand it. Radio can't pivot they they're stuck in
their ways. The traditional music business it's does not
compute to them that people can listen to a song enjoy music and
not pay for it only only send value if they want to that it's
just not it's not it doesn't it's not in their DNA. It never
will be. It never will be. But when you have Ainsley Costello,
who, you know shows up on podcasts and is talking about
her music and they play her music and the wallet switches
and then she's although I don't think that happened on Putnams
weekly review, but only played a little bit. But you know, that's
Now you're talking. Something that that really works.
Dave Jones: Well, if you so you sent me a video the other day
trying to remember
Adam Curry: that was at the rap guy. Yeah, yeah. rap guy. Yeah.
Dave Jones: And so he made a comment in there. I don't know
if you remember this, where he he talked about this phenomenon
of rappers that get millions of streams, but they can't sell
out.
Adam Curry: You know, what, if no one shows up at their shows?
Yeah.
Dave Jones: You literally have to cancel the shows because they
didn't sell any tickets. Exactly. That's a scam. We we
already see this in podcasting to the like, you might call it
like paper popularity or their sequel, their sequel, famous,
you know, they're just famous in a database somewhere. They're
not they're not actually. So they don't actually have like
this. They don't yeah, they don't actually have real ears
that they care about lists don't have a real audience, right,
that will follow them. And that's what happens if an
industry gives up. Its independence. If the if the
podcasting, quote unquote, industry, gives up its
independence and lets some and just follows whatever the
current definition of digital advertising is, if that happens,
it's going to give up its future. It's gonna give up it's
a humongous chunk of revenue, and any illusion of control that
it ever had over its own destiny,
Adam Curry: and they'll be slaves and will be slaves. As
slaves,
Dave Jones: you're just gonna You were just going to plug
yourself in to the digital advertising ecosystem in
whichever way that wind blows, that's going to drag you right
along with it. And you're going to have no more control over it.
None.
Adam Curry: But the but the beautiful thing is and this is
where we can end this argument is I don't care because RSS RSS
will exist. RSS is is. You know, it's like what is I'm gonna say,
bear don't give a crap. Honey Badger honey badger, honey.
Yeah. Honey Badger. That's what RSS is. And I always love Well,
you know, the industry is so young. It's 20 years old. We're
talking about it's not young. That's code for we're not making
money yet. No one's making money. Everyone's losing money.
Stop.
Dave Jones: Stop already, television had already had his
own mob in his mind, you know, the mafia was already sold out
to us long term. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah. So we're on the right track. And I'm very
excited. And, and I would love to see the tools coming online,
I saw a semi angry email from Todd, which I always love when
he gets off, because that means he's doing something like this.
So hard. Yeah, this has died on and we know this. Not to be
separate, right? Let's make it happen. That means Todd is
working very hard on trying to get the value time splits
working into blueberry or something installed. Right,
right before he shifts. But just so we can make make clear what
needs to happen. And I'm so delighted that what at what
seems to be working is people are feeding into podcasting
decks. That's what the indexes for the index is supposed to be
the neutral place where you can put put all the feeds in. And of
course, you can download the database and have your own copy
and do whatever you want to do set up as a separate one next to
it if you want, it's all fine. So if I'm just gonna say
blueberry just make it easy. If someone played a song in their
in their podcast, so you don't have to be doing a show, like
boost to Graham ball, let's just say your chat and say, Hey,
let's play it. Let's play Jeff Smith for a second, you know,
like we do on podcasting 2.0, then all you have to do in the
post production is in your little interface there. Go and
say, Okay, we played this song, Jeff Smith, and it'll search the
podcast index. And with the API and music medium equals music
pops up, you add that and you just put the start time, and
then everything else is done, then you're done, then you don't
have to change anything else. Of course, under the hood, that's
where the value time split has to be put into feed. But it's
not super hard. That's what split kit basically does. That's
it. There's no step three. I know I make it sound really
easy. But But that's, that's what has to be done. And then
and then people will do that. And we're going to create a I
mean, now is the best time to become a podcaster. And a best
time to get your music, podcast value for value enabled, whether
it's on wavelength or music side project or dystopia, or RSS
blue.com. Wherever you are in your sovereign feeds.com You
know, all of this stuff, you can do so many different ways to do
it. And, yeah, is it complicated right now? Yeah. But that's
that's what people are, are simplifying.
Dave Jones: We'll meet music is just, that's just step one. I
mean, audio books are next. Podcast hosting companies. I
boosted into new media show the other day, and I don't think
Todd read any booths on the show.
Adam Curry: He only read mine
Dave Jones: during the show on with him and Rob
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's the beginning. Yeah, that's that's
like, oh, Adam snarky. Okay. Generational old man.
Dave Jones: Well, the, you know, what I'd written in was that
podcast hosting companies. They had they hold in their hand, the
RSS is a district edits core. RSS is a content distribution
mechanism. That's all it is. It is a content delivery method.
Correct. And it exists right now with a pipeline from podcast
hosting companies, even if you run it yourself. Podcast hosting
companies down to millions of what you would call radio
receivers. In Adam curry parlance. Yes. The system is
already there. It is fully baked with one tweak of the medium
tag. Podcast hosting companies have the ability to have in
their hands the ability to blow up malt Four industries. Yep.
Adam Curry: What? It's not immediately let me just say it's
not even blowing up an industry. It's a whole total zig zag.
You're not even in there. You're not even in their in their wake.
It's not important. You're not competing with them. You're on a
whole different level. It's that's why I say it's blue sky
green fields is all open. No one's doing this. Nobody.
Nobody's doing it's so it's so obvious to me.
Dave Jones: It's not a blow up. It's a circumvent Yeah, that's
right. Yeah, it's
Adam Curry: totally oh, we're just gonna stand over here with
it. We're over here putting our tents up with our little lean
tos and our shanties. Yeah, we continue
Dave Jones: deciding our opting out of this. Yes, yes,
Adam Curry: yes, exactly. And we've proven that we've proven
that it can work. And you know, and within the next few years,
we'll see podcasters, sustaining on value for values. Boosts and
booster grams and streaming, and we'll definitely see it with
artists. Definitely.
Dave Jones: Did you? Did you see, by the way, Spurlock's
chart of
Adam Curry: option Yeah, that was beautiful. Tell everybody
about it, there was there was a proud little moment for us.
Dave Jones: Is that that was great. Like, let me see if I can
find that post. Because he,
Adam Curry: he basically he did. He did a chart of declared and
declared namespaces and then namespaces that are actually
used in feeds.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Meaning in the usage means, like, are they? Did
they just declared in their head? Or are they actually using
tags? Right, right. And so you have the items namespace is sort
of the benchmark is what is that that is the 100%. So everything,
every podcast RSS feed, currently in his body of
research feeds, is using the iTunes namespace, every feed has
it and what
Adam Curry: that what that means is that the RSS feed just for
people who are listening in and don't know what the heck we're
talking about, that means the RSS feed is signaling, hey,
there's special functionality in here in this RSS feed that is
inherent to iTunes. And because it's iTunes and podcasting, it
really blew up with with iTunes and the iPod. Pretty much
everybody uses the you know, all these tags since it was
compatible with Apple.
Dave Jones: And if you break it down, that obviously iTunes is
going to be is going to be the number one there. It's not
that's not an not a surprise at that. If you break it down a
little bit further, if you say, Adam, the Adam namespace is
pretty much declared by default in most content in most CMS is
because you get it's, it has been that way for a long time,
because you get certain features with it's, you're what you're
doing is you're overlaying the atom ability to do links and
stuff on to RSS. It's just that got adopted years and years ago.
You still you see that in all of RSS that's not specific to
podcasting in any way. No, that was does does it? Yeah.
Adam Curry: Adam was actually a group, which I think was
Microsoft related. I'm thinking, who who looked at RSS and wait,
no, that's not right. We need to make it complicated.
Dave Jones: I thought it was Google. It might have been it
might have been
Adam Curry: Google might have been Google. Yeah. But well, we
have to make it more complicated and all these weird features.
And so they competed with RSS, and I would say RSS, arguably
one
Dave Jones: in that. It's very much the same. So the top, we'll
see 123456. So the top six are iTunes, Adam, the Content
namespace, the Dublin Core namespace anchor in the podcast
namespace. So declare, declared use over 25% of podcast feeds
are now declaring the podcast namespace Wow. To me, that's
giant.
Adam Curry: Within a couple of years from zero, yes, yes. Yeah.
Dave Jones: And then Adam is in there, by default, the same
content, the Content namespace. The it's declared a lot, but
it's actually not used, right. As much as it used to be because
iTunes used to Apple used to recommend that for the content,
it just really only for one purpose is for to get the
content encoded tag. Right. And that was For show notes. Right.
So that was that's an old recommendation that is just
continues to exist in a lot of CMS is Dublin Core, very similar
to Adam. It's been around for many, many, many years. It's a
standard RSS namespace. It's not, it doesn't have much to do
with podcasting. Yes. So the first others so next to iTunes,
the first namespace you get to that really has anything
specific to do with podcasting is anchor in its own in its a
specific proprietary thing and the only reason it makes a blip
on this radar is because anchor pumps out a bazillion junk feeds
all the time. Yeah, crap saying I'm tossing that out because
that one's not you don't exist to me anchor.
Adam Curry: You don't exist to me You're dead to me You're dead
to me.
Dave Jones: So I'm I mean I can make a great case that as far as
like podcasts specific namespace adoption we're number two. Yeah
Rabbana twins baby.
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, but but it's not a competition with this
is my entire point like Rancors all this doesn't matter it
doesn't matter. It's it we only have what 15,000 value enabled
feeds look at the money that's flowing around, look at the
value look at the blips and the pings and the bloops and the and
the and the and the integration, the interop between all these
things. That's what matters. That's what matters.
Dave Jones: It makes me happy. This makes me happy because it
it it obviates the argument of well, we're not going to adopt
it until we see it gained some traction. Right. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah. Yeah, that was off the board. Now it is, takes
up except for the people who are afraid of it, who want control
who wants to maintain control and don't want the Wild West
coming into their, into their publicly listed company? And
that's, and that's Apple, Spotify, Google, Amazon, etc.
And I don't think they'll ever let it in.
Dave Jones: dribs cuts it foam finger number two.
Adam Curry: Should we bring our guests in because they're just
sitting here listening to us Yap away, and they've got some
interesting things that that they've been working on. Yep.
And I just realized that I don't even know one of our guests last
name, but since he lives in a shack in the woods, maybe that's
intentional. I'd like to say hello to from rss.com, Alberto.
botella and from IPvs podcasting.com. We have Cameron.
No last name. Guys.
Dave Jones: Last Name redacted. Yeah. The the turnover. I have a
I have something specific though. I have declared that you
live in the forest. Adam said you live in the woods. And what
do you say?
Cameron: I'm on the edge of a national forest. So um,
Adam Curry: yes, but that's not the point. Do you live in a
shack? Do you have like a Ted Kaczynski like shack is the
question.
Cameron: No, it's bigger than a 12 by 12. But it's it's just a
retirement place.
Adam Curry: Over retirement place. Seville? Yeah. Okay,
Dave Jones: now bear two lives in a villa. That's Yes. No,
Alberto: not yet. But whatever question for for Cameron because
we spoke so much on through email, Cameron. When I heard
your voice for the first time a couple of weeks ago with some
salary in the interview. When you said you were retired. I
would imagine you being very old. But it seems as you sound
Young. I'm puzzled.
Cameron: I call it involuntary retirement. Okay, you're back in
2000 with the it bubble and
Adam Curry: he made money there you go. Nice.
Alberto: Well, you have a VLAN maybe you have a villa.
Cameron: lost the money or lost it Oh, okay. Oh
Dave Jones: it's a 12 by 12 Check and outside as a sign on
it this hanging this says villa. That's was what Yeah, it's the
money. Yeah,
Adam Curry: no, I like the camera. You like me? He's like,
we made all this money and then we blew it all in something
stupid on me. It was hookers and blows and helicopters castles.
You know, I had a good time I spent it all. Well. Believe me,
it's not worth it. It's way overhyped. So now Roberto, are
you in Spain? Yes, I'm
Alberto: in Spain. Okay. Well, thank
Adam Curry: you for staying up late with us this evening.
already. So you guys have been working together. And something
kind of exciting happened. Cameron started IPFS podcasting
dotnet A while ago, and all of a sudden he came up with some some
scheme I'm not I'm still not sure how we're going to you and
you are already you already set up a node. So I'll let you guys
speak for yourselves about how y'all connected and I started
doing this. And IPFS for people don't know is the interplanetary
file system. We've talked about this ever since we started
podcasting 2.0 as a possible hosting solution. All cut there
was always an issue that popped up or something didn't work and
I I think Dave and I would revisit it from time to time,
it's, you know, it's like, and then they had, they had a, like
a file coin that was attached to it. And it just all became kind
of achy. But that, you know, the IPFS basics, were still out
there. I'm on the newsletter, so I always see it coming in. But
then Cameron somehow hooked in a payment scheme with lightning.
So that when someone hosts or pins, a podcast on their node,
they can participate in some of the value flow, which was mind
boggling am and really works. There's some minor issues, but
maybe, maybe Cameron, if you wouldn't mind, giving us the
backstory to what you set up? How long ago this was and how
you and Alberto started to work together.
Cameron: Yeah, it'll be almost three years this fall, I think
that I started it. I was trying to figure out a use for IPFS. I
mean, a lot of people wanted to backup their websites and files
and things like that. But it was just so unstructured. So
podcasting, you know, if you talk about RSS, it seemed like
it was structured perfectly that I could know what I'm getting
into, you know, as far as importing the feeds and knowing
what the files would be. So, yeah, I went with that. And
Alberto saw it right away. And he's like, this is great, you
know, we should all be sharing this, you know, trying to donate
our bandwidth, you know, to help hosting. So now
Adam Curry: the event started about a year in the hosting
business, you charge people for hosting. So what drove you to be
a part of this?
Alberto: Ah, well, I can explain. Are Are we in the
hosting business? That's a question, I think that we are
defined as hosting platforms. And but that's, that's really
commoditize, in my opinion. So that's something we've been
thinking for a while. When you leave. When you check the pot
scape from Magellan, for example, we are defined hosting
platforms. You guys were talking about, you know, hosting a
couple of weeks ago, and how bandwidth is expensive, I think
even thought sent a message talking about how much it spends
every month for bandwidth.
Adam Curry: Yeah, like when I sent here 30 grand or something.
Amount.
Alberto: Yeah. 30 plus. So the reason why I saw it right away,
or at least I wanted, we as in our sister calm, wanted to offer
some resources to Cameron. And so a big node, dedicated, easy
to instance, on AWS that he's actually maintaining. So it's
very nice because we offered the resource but Cameron is using
it, I believe Cameron also for some tests, when he did. So the
point is, we don't feel these would jeopardize the hosting
industry because I at least for our says.com, we our business
model is not based on excess bandwidth, we feel we offer a
set of tools for publishers, we are working with AI now thinking
about the next level of feature, the features. And when I think
about hostings it's such an old concept. And think about Wix and
Squarespace. Why nobody says their house they're hosting, of
course, they're hosting your assets if you upload an image on
Squarespace, but nobody cares. They're publishing tools. So the
reason why we are interested in IPFS, we see the potential even
more now with the value for value splits. But even before,
it would be a way to the centralized hosting, to really
rely on CD ends, which we still need, because they are because
of their redundancy and reliability, but just for
fallback. So it was very natural to me. And I was I was puzzled.
Because you, for example, Dave, you were a bit skeptical a few
times you mentioned over the past year until recently. I
don't know if it works. But for me, it was really right away. I
thought we need to explore this and and we're very, very excited
about what what it can become.
Adam Curry: I think it makes sense. Yeah, this is very
interesting, because I've always seen the hosting business as a
heavy overhead of money for the bandwidth. Actually, storage I
think is is always under estimated how large that can
grow. I know storage becomes cheaper and cheaper every year.
But I've always seen it as a very intense human business for
education and teaching and of course, the better your your
tools are, the easier they are to understand the less you have
to miss handholding you have to do? I think Dave, the reason we
kind of got disinterested in IPFS is because we were trying
to distribute the database, the weekly database and it kept
breaking.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So we have for a long time we distributed this
for over a year or more, we distributed the database only on
IPFS. Like it wasn't even, it was not even available for as an
HTTP download. So then we had to add the HTTP download later,
because the IPFS just kept getting so many emails of people
saying I can't it's not working, the IPFS downloads not working.
So we were randomly random in parallel for a long time. And
IPFS daemon on our VM and Linode just kept, just kept breaking
and just kept, I had to eventually write a script that
would resurrect that, that process, you know, don't ever
try to resurrect it every five minutes, because it was just
going down multiple times a day. And that was so like, that was
where my sort of disenchantment with it came from, but I think
like that was, and I really am starting to think that that had
more to do with the size of the file. Because what was
happening? I mean, we were hosting, you know, a gigabyte
file size download, if you're, if you're only talking about
smaller assets, like podcast size, is probably not nearly as
taxing on on a system, I would think. And, you know, the other
thing is like, I feel like, it makes more, I agree with you
better, I think, I think hosting companies. I think it's just an
unfortunate relic of the past that podcast hosts are still
called hosting companies. I really think I don't think that
the value that you guys offer comes from the fact that you
provide bandwidth, I think most of the, like, 99% of the value
that the hosting companies provide is tooling. I mean,
look, I mean, nobody, nobody goes in and says, Hey, I need to
build a website. Where can I get the best bandwidth? I mean,
like, nobody asks that question. It's not even, it never comes up
in somebody's mind. Everybody's like, what the question you ask
is, what's got who's got the best, you know, interface? Who's
got the best content management system? Really, what the best
stats, who's got the best stats? It's all that stuff. I mean,
where the bandwidth, every podcast hosting company would
love to get rid of their bandwidth bill. I mean, that's
the thing that they hate the most. You know, what, what's
fun? And what's the count? The real competitive landscape? Is
what, who has the best tools for a particular, you know, brand,
or sector or podcast or whatever. That's really where
the competition is.
Cameron: Dan, Dave, I think the distributed part doesn't a bit
might be what, gotcha. You were the only node hosted that file.
Yeah, noticed? Yeah, I've noticed, my first iteration of
this was, I was thinking, Oh, I only need two nodes per file,
because that'll get me consensus, you know, that both
nodes match. And that's all I'll ever need. But that wasn't true.
You know, I had, once I started adding more nodes, you know, I
don't know about 10 or 15 nodes, then the playback would work
better and better. And now, you know, with the value splits,
everybody wants to, you know, host booster and ball and things
like that. There's no problems, you know, you have 50 nodes with
the file. It can it'll find it, you know, so your one note, I
think, was the problem.
Dave Jones: Yeah, cuz at that point is just, it's no, it's
really no different than than just serving a web serving and
over HTTP. I mean, you're just, it's just like straight
downloads.
Cameron: So you're just serving the file.
Adam Curry: This is really interesting. So is Steven Bell,
basically in competition with rss.com?
Alberto: I don't know what, what do you think?
Adam Curry: How about this? I'll say yes, because he has all the
tools I need. And now I have my own bandwidth. But I
successfully used IPFS for a booster Graham ball. And, and I
don't pay him I pay him a split. I give him a split for for
everything I do.
Alberto: Yeah, in that, in that sense. It could be a competitor.
But again, it really depends on on the needs of the user, you
you may be labeled as a Pro user.
Adam Curry: Oh yeah. I'm I'm a very bad customer to have
because I will text you would 11pm and say shit doesn't work.
Come on, man. Fix it.
Alberto: Yeah, think about the majority of people they you
know, we said before RSS is is The content delivery method. But
most of the people, the longtail the creators that are starting,
and even professional podcasters. They don't want to,
to write RSS feeds. They don't want to make syntax errors, they
want that GUI they want the graphical user interfaces.
Adam Curry: You know, I'm in total agreement with you. I
mean, so I love that you think this way, because this is, you
know, Steven, I've told Stephen Bell many times No, do not do
not get into the hosting business. But it was never for
the bandwidth. It was always you don't have the physical human
bandwidth to hold everybody's hand all day long. Because
there's such a huge, not even support. I mean, you I think if
your tools are good, the support kind of takes care of itself.
But it's the education part. Now, you I mean, this is why all
the hosting companies go to all of the the podcast conferences,
they're not necessarily part of the podcasting industrial
complex, but that's where they can talk to people and educate
them. You know, it's like, oh, here's, here's how it works
here, you know that people are new, they don't know what to do,
or they have questions, or they don't understand the difference
between one tool and the other tool it and that's a no, can we
do you mind? If I ask Roberto? How many? How many people do you
have in customer support? Or is it all just you? Oh,
Alberto: no, no, we have, we have Michael, which is, who is
the head of CX customer experience, we like to call it
experience. And then we have four people in different
counties. So we have five people. So one, on the one hand,
customer support is really important. It's the one of the
added values. But again, also publishing tools like
transcripts, and other features we are building in the
backstage. These are the parts. These are part of the unique
service proposition app, how many people are using sovereign
feeds. I don't know the number. But these are a specific niche
of users. And that's why it works so well, because it
targets and caters to those users. But if you want the
longtail or you want to make sure everyone has the
opportunity to start a podcast. That's where a product that's
that's extremely simple can work. And that's why hosting and
bandwidth, it's secondary to us. It may not be for other
companies that have been in the business since 2006. Or, or
earlier than us. But we never designed our company to rely
where our revenue would rely on excess bandwidth or bandwidth in
general.
Dave Jones: to only ask you what, what specifically is it
that you're that you are hosting? Are you hosting hosting
an IPFS node or a gateway?
Alberto: I don't know that. I wish we had that gateway. It was
a great conversation in the in the last in your last episode.
Gateways should be probably there should be a dedicated
gateway for IPS IPFS. Podcasting, absolutely just a
node. So the node is running the Python code that Cameron
provides me the only difference from other nodes that we just
put some money and, and put a terabyte of data, there are
storage. And it's now hosting. At the moment, it has more than
700 peers hosting. I'm not sure how many episodes, but we have
up to 350 gigabyte of storage that are delivering the head to
deliver IPFS podcasting shows. So let's get right on. Did they
forget anything?
Cameron: Sorry, no, last I checked, you had about 6000
episodes.
Adam Curry: You're supporting the whole podcast industry.
Cameron: Oh, that's why it's been a godsend. Because, you
know, the nodes they come and go. But his has been there the
whole time. So there have been times when you know, I lose a
bunch of nodes. And like thank God Alberto was there because
he's got most of the files.
Dave Jones: I find this fascinating for this reason that
Albear or sis.com. They're known as hosting shows from other
podcast hosts.
Adam Curry: Right. That's right. I love that. That's fantastic.
Is
Dave Jones: this something that in that sense? Is this something
Alberto, the podcast standards group? could do? Could they
could they encourage their their members to spin up a IPFS
podcasting node?
Alberto: So let me tell you, it could, we could do that. But
we'd never spoke about IPFS at least not yet. We speak on the
main conversation is about podcasting. 2.0 tags adoption
and how together we can move the industry way towards innovation.
Yes, it could be some conversation we should have at
the moment, just to be very clear, we host these episodes.
And for us is an r&d project. Perhaps we came around one of
the first conversation to me so that my original, perhaps my
naive vision at the time, was, if we want to offer free
hosting, free hosting, then you can pay for publishing tools or
for free per transcripts for for for AI summarization. But if we
want to offer free hosting, how cool would it be to have a
client that you install in your computer, and everyone
participates to IPFS? Podcasting? So if you want your
Show, hosted for free, then you have this client running. And
you just
Adam Curry: you, you participate in the network? Yes, yeah. So we
were discussing this. Alright, so So now let's get to what I
think is the interim step. And maybe it's not, which is the
gateway. And so when I started booster, gram ball, I decided to
go balls to the wall, I'm gonna throw this thing on IPFS right
out of the gate and out of the gate, it worked. It worked
perfectly. It works beautifully. The last week, I started to get
some, some well, okay, let me just step back for a second.
James Cridland appropriately said that really what's
happening is all this guy is going to the IPFS, labs gateway
ipfs.io. And, which means they can shut stuff off. In fact,
there was an episode of something. I can't remember what
it was Cameron, you might was one episode of the no agenda,
one episode had been blocked by ipfs.io. And they unblocked it
when you email them. But that's kind of the problem is that they
blocked it. So they'll everyone's kind of like, well,
anything can be blocked at any moment. And then just the nature
of one gateway has been blocked by some network somewhere,
certainly, some corporate networks are like, Oh, no,
anything coming off of this ipfs.io has got to be, you know,
like, basically treating it like a torrent site, which I think
something else may have been added, because I got a couple of
reports in the past week. I can't play it. And they and then
you know, like, I send them a direct link that goes through
the redirector Oh, that works. But then it doesn't work on any
of the apps. I don't know if there's cause issues. I don't
know all of that stuff. But when you get four or five people
saying it doesn't work, then all of a sudden, it's like, that
seems like 5000. To me, it's not and you did a wonderful report.
And you You broke it all down was probably really only four or
five people out of the 6000. Maybe that that downloaded it.
But is is the gateway the final step. And the taking into
consideration, we might be able to do the splits in a way that
the gateways get more money, or more value from the value for
value splits? Or should really all the apps be IPFS. Native? Is
that something that's even possible? These are all the
questions I have?
Cameron: Yeah, I think the ultimate would be the native
IPFS. Could they've been they could grab straight from the
nodes, currently, you know, and there wouldn't be any way to
block it. But I did seems pretty difficult. As far as getting it
on Android and iOS.
Adam Curry: Why? Why is that difficult?
Cameron: JSON a podcast guru was trying it. And he was having
issues where I guess it used a lot of resources running a node
on your phone. And then he had to download the entire file
before he could hand it off to the audio system. So you get a
huge delay. Yeah, yeah. So you couldn't stream it? You could,
you'd have to download the whole thing before you started
playing. So I don't know if there's a workaround for that
yet.
Adam Curry: There's no way to just have a light light node
that just understands the IPFS protocol. I guess not. I guess
I'm asking things that people thought of.
Cameron: Yeah, I don't know, either. I mean, you've got to
talk that protocol. Yeah. And you got to get get your peers
going and have enough peers. So you can discover the files, you
know, because I know there's 1000s of peers out there.
Dave Jones: Let me just say don't have them that breeze runs
into with running an lnd node on the phone is right, okay.
channels open. Okay.
Cameron: Right. Gateways are the backup, you know, so we can use
HTTP. So it'd be nice to have volunteer gateways that could
convert from IPFS to HTTP.
Adam Curry: So I've asked void zero to set up a gateway or
gateways on the servers that I have, which he's still working
on, I guess. Is there now? Is there a way to reward gateway
nodes? For being a gateway?
Cameron: Yeah, my, I guess anything's possible. I just, we
were trying to figure out how to decide which gateway gets paid.
You know, so when a boost comes in, you want to send the portion
of that boost to the right gateway, multiple gateways. So
currently, I don't know who's using it right now everybody's
using IPFS. Io. But if there were multiple gateways sharing
the load, I'd have to know where to send that payment.
Dave Jones: Well, if we, I thought I had a conversation on
the phone with Alex gates a few days ago, and we were kind of
hashing some of this stuff out coming to try to come up with
ideas on how to do that. And his, I think, you know, he
posted some stuff on the mastodon about it, and, you
know, are two sort of, well, I guess, you have three, you can
have sort of three methods, you know, you could put multiple
gateways in the RSS feed. The problem there is, you get like,
imagine all this is in like the alternate enclosure, you can
have multiple gateways defined in those, just say, five random
gateways described in there. And then you'd have fall backs, you
try one, if it doesn't work, try the next one, try the next one,
whatever. So you could do that. But then then you have the
problem of having to keep the RSS feed current. And, you know,
if one goes away, Oh, fine. Yeah. So then you could have,
the other option would be to do, you know, do like a redirect,
but then have a have a, like a response header that says, oh,
like, like the IPFS gateway that ends up responding out of like a
round robin or something like that could could respond with or
you can give a response at her. Say, you know, with the wallet
address in there, so that if it's successful, if you
successfully download it from there, you could send sin SATs
back. That would be one way. And we had a third way that I can't,
that he came up with, and I can't remember off top my head.
What are your thoughts on that? Camera?
Cameron: Well, I think I can do what the TLV record somebody's
analysis mad at me or doesn't like me? Yeah.
Adam Curry: No, I think that's just Alex, I don't think you'd
take that personally. Well, I'm
Cameron: sure it's a source code issue. He wants to view the
source for the algorithms and all that stuff. The prefix that
you use now, it determines, you know, where you're, if the file
exists, and who hasn't, and all that stuff. So, I mean, I could
use that to figure out which gateway and do the round robin
through the prefix. The only issue with the payment is the
boost coming back. And he did like, I was thinking I have in
the domain of the host. So viruses.com has a gateway. When
the player gets sends the boosts back, they'll say, Well, I was
playing this via rss.com. Then that would come back to the IPFS
split. I would know to go send that boost to the RSS I can.
Dave Jones: Transmit is good,
Alberto: Cameron, statistics and analytics? If would there be a
way for gateways to share analytics so that you can have
an overview as a as a podcaster running here or distributing
your show through IPFS? Could that's what that's what always
concerned me a bit if I have a concern is the analytics you can
extrapolate from IPFS.
Cameron: Yeah, that's that's an issue because you're only going
to see the plays that you're like, go through your gateway,
you're not gonna see the other gateways.
Adam Curry: Isn't that worse, but what comes in because we've
been using Spurlock braid, basically for for the stats for
the shows, right with the his redirect.
Cameron: Yeah, that's actually good point. Spurlock. He's got
everything because he's going to get in the redirect before it
comes to IPFS. Podcasting. So he has all the data. And then I'm
storing some data to, to
Adam Curry: kind of just stop for a second and just realize
that here we are for guys who have never met each other in
person. Well, Dave and I have met. There's people all over the
world who are working on this and look at how we're doing.
This is so cool. And then Oh, yeah. Spurlock he's got the
data. I love this. I just got I just got goosebumps for a second
here. Now. Like, no offense to the podcast, working group, pod
standards working group, but dude, look at what we're doing
here in the boardroom. This is amazing.
Cameron: Yeah, Alberto, if you wanted to duplicate something
like a like Spurlock, you know, you have your own prefix for
stats for your hosts or your podcasts. then you would be able
to see everything.
Alberto: Yeah, that's the point perhaps if there was a prefix
from IPFS, podcasting, then everything would be centralized.
And then you could offer the stats through, you know, J zone
or an API. Something that must be centralized, I guess,
meaning, for example, we run everything through a Python
script you offer, and you still keep track of who has what?
Correct. So if that's the case, why don't you build the prefix?
This way, you can also get back the stats. And I'm not saying
the short term, but like the long term for this to be a
viable solution. Wouldn't it make sense?
Cameron: Yeah, I'd be duplicating what Spurlock's
doing. But yeah, that's basic. Why don't
Adam Curry: we just want to just get whatever it's for luck. And
when we just get it from John's,
Dave Jones: his stuffs open source? Yeah. Right. It's there.
Yeah. That. So let's see here, I found I found I was supposed to
say, so he said, move forward, putting the gateway URLs in
Austria enclosure, see, and he said, Oh, this is what it was.
So the other option, the third option would be to have the
gateway that's chosen, have like a dot well known URL so that you
could have, so that you could query the gateway. And know,
this was what we did with no agenda tube in the early days.
So with no agenda tube, before, it's supported before, Alex got
all the podcasts and tube Windows support in their, their
RSS stuff, and peer to was pretty limited. So what we did
was, he created a dot well known URL on the agenda tube, where it
would, it would just it just had a JSON version of, of a wallet.
It had it specified in that JSON, the fee, essentially. So
any, so you could query the URL of whatever donate domain name,
you had FTD. And you had, and see what they what their, their
fee was. So I could see it being the same way here. You could
just query the dot well known and find out what this IPFS
gateways fee is. And just use, you know, wow, you can
Adam Curry: get the algorithm sophisticated. I like that idea.
Dave Jones: You choose the cheapest one or the one that's
most reliable or whatever. I mean, that's an option.
Cameron: Right, but who makes the payment, then the player
would be making the payment? Right? That's not a part of the
IPFS. Split? That'd be a separate
Dave Jones: split. Yeah, the play? Yeah.
Cameron: And then another question, Adam was who defines
the fee? God, God,
Adam Curry: Jesus, Jesus determined? I mean, that's
certainly the free market. You know, the, the free market
determines that. He's not the beauty of it. Like if you can
have competing nodes, and just like Dave said, you know, it's
like, Well, this one's reliable, or this one has is fast, or this
one's you know, my body or whatever it is, and then, you
know, then the fee comes into place, or what does that cost? I
mean, I'm not, I'm not I'm less worried about that. About who
determines when you say, Who determines the fee is wouldn't?
Okay, I'm presuming the node operator, the gateway operator
determines the fee. I think that is that your question? Because
that can't really be determined, because it's coming from the
app?
Cameron: Well, currently, the way I understand all the splits
are defined by the podcaster. You decide how much right hey,
right, you know, to IPFS? Or Stephen or whoever. So if a
gateway comes by and says, Well, I want 10%. Is that coming out
of yours? You know, or then are we doing the fee thing? Where
you add it to this?
Dave Jones: Say, that's why the fee thing exists? Yeah. Because
because there's a recognition here that there's there's going
to be costs. If for certain services are provided, there's
going to be costs that are fixed that can't they, they can't be
sort of like bartered in real time. So you have like for bet
for bandwidth if you have people providing it, they've got this
fixed cost, so they have to do like a fee instead of a pay what
you want type scenario. They it's more binary. So they're
like well, I mean, I can either serve you this file and it's
going to cost this or I can't because I'm going to because I'm
having to pay somebody upstream
Adam Curry: Okay. Let's knock away for the enthusiasm on that
one.
Alberto: I think thinking but at the at the moment with nodes,
Cameroon, you choose the fee, right? We put our wallet, and we
just you explain how use you split. But we cannot say, you
know, I want X percent or I can specify a value. So why not
starting for gateway with a with a similar rationale, and maybe
with an algorithm or just some some rules, given on how many
episodes you serve and some other criteria, you increase or
decrease the fee? It wouldn't be easier.
Cameron: Well, the fee right now is optional. You don't have to,
Adam Curry: I think he's talking about the split that you do the
IPFS
Alberto: split the split I mentioned. So if you have you
explained that, if you get a certain number of sets certain
value, then the nodes get, I think it's a 5% split for a PFS
broadcasting, right. And then this is distributed to the
nodes. So why not doing
Cameron: five to 5% is optional. If the podcaster gives the 5% or
10% or 1%. I take whatever I get, and then I just divided up.
Ryan stole it? No,
Alberto: that's what I'm saying. I would start like that. That's
proportional to whatever is the boost.
Cameron: Okay. Yeah, that was my thought too, was to say, like,
if you say, 1%, if you want to say half of whatever I get goes
to the gateway and the other half day, you know, there you
Adam Curry: go. That's our thinking. Yeah, I think that's
and then move and moving forward, I would say. Yeah, I
mean, the way I view it is, if you want IPFS podcasting
hosting, then it has to be a minimum of x. This is And now,
for instance, if I want if I want all my booster grams to
show up on fountain, I have to put in a minimum of 1% split so
that they receive that it goes to my account over there, which
is kind of interesting, because it actually comes back to me.
But the service I've envisioned moving forward will say, Well,
you want this service, if it's not this amount, if it's not
this number of split, then the service doesn't work for you. I
mean, I don't see any problem with that. If that makes any
sense.
Cameron: Yeah, it does. I mean, I'd like the idea that it's
optional, just to onboard people to test it out course, of
course, without forcing them to, of course, what. Again, the
gateway part, you know, if I say whatever I get, I'm gonna give
half to the gateway. The gateway is not deciding how much they
need. It's whatever the podcaster defines as a split,
and then half of that, or whatever it ends up being.
Adam Curry: I'll tell you what, why don't we all take a little
breather. I'd like to bum rush the chart for a moment and play
a song. So we all can just click Collect our thoughts. And then
also, once again, demonstrate the magical wallet switching
technology with a song that I think is perfect for Friday for
a boardroom there. When I was in radio, we used to have a song
that he played with, there'll be a number of songs that we play
every Friday at five o'clock into the five o'clock whistle
and then you play Oh goodness. Just like five you know, take
this job and shove it and you know all these different work
quitting songs for it's time for the weekend. Oh, yeah. And one
of them was Todd Ron grins. I don't want to work. I want to
play bang on the drum all day. You'll hear it on every bad top
40 radio stations, I'm sure. So I want to play a value for value
podcasting version of that Todd Rundgren song which was done by
a guy named John Ross. And I think he did a perfect perfect
version and use your curio caster or live kit to boost his
song if you don't mind. Work sucks John Ross on 2.0.
Unknown: I go to work today.
Another day, another dollars all my co workers Alright I got out
of
stocks
up another day
until the day you can leave this place
and under on I can't stress
oh my god oh my bosses sucks
Adam Curry: John Ross work sucks thank you sir Spencer Dred Scott
Mr. Robot Mike Newman for boosting through curio caster so
you know that when the played the track the artist gets the
SATs beautiful and everyone's dead?
Dave Jones: Oh no I don't know how to work this thing yet I
muted myself physical buttons screwed me up.
Adam Curry: I gotta I gotta give you a little tutorial. There's
all kinds of cool stuff you can do don't worry, it's you're
gonna love it. You're gonna love that that road caster you're
going to love it.
Dave Jones: Yeah, let's talk in a way that nobody here. So just
before
Adam Curry: we get back to the IPFS stuff, Dave TLVs. And what
because we need some we need our apps are beautiful brothers and
arms have the apps to be doing some stuff to their TLVs for
regular podcast. And then I'm not even sure if we can talk
about boosting songs while we're lit yet because that's that's a
whole nother can of worms but please tell us what what are
what are our apps need to be sending so we can really crank
up the discovery mechanism of podcasts index dot top.
Dave Jones: Yes, I think I'm working with the app developers
individually. I'm posting if I see something that's needed I'm
just going through there one by one and like Oscar, he's already
posted some stuff to him he's like yeah, I got it. We're good
to go. Okay. Franco a cast Matic. He's good. I think he's
good to go now. He knows he knows what is needed. Sam said
the over pod fans a shot we exchanged a few emails and he's
and gave him some examples and he's like, Yep, got it. We're
good to go. I understand now. So I think I think we're in good
shape. Okay, it was just a matter of now. You know, we just
had to wait for it to sort of play out through the like beta
and all this I think we're good and so I finished the sequel
finish the sequel stuff on on on the charting and oh my gosh is
so much faster. The chart builds in about about three minutes. So
if wow, that's cool way faster. Yeah, verse Just 45 So I rebuilt
it right before the shows.
Adam Curry: No, I see it. I see it. Okay, I sent you a note to
change the wording at the top. There's a little discrepancy
there.
Dave Jones: Okay, I just took out all of that big paragraph,
Adam Curry: ya know, the only thing is yeah, this is the
chart. This chart is a ranking of the music podcasts that have
been boosted the most over the last seven days. Well
technically it is the music played on podcasts that have
been boosted Yeah, so just so people understand what that but
I like it a lot. It's so fun to see Fletcher and Blaney who have
a tremendous audience very dedicated they're all over this
chart.
Dave Jones: They are in just the name having this name of a song
be battled trance.
Adam Curry: We just want to see that on the chart. And I love
the layout. Thank you Nathan Garth Garth, right. That's
that's really did a great job on that. And I love that the top
100 actually is like 115 Yeah, that just makes so much sense.
That's That's who we are.
Dave Jones: It's 100 ish.
Adam Curry: I'm gonna call that the top 100
Dave Jones: wrestle Beer. Beer root rag. That one is always
dead last every band. I mean, banjo music
Adam Curry: man is banjo music.
Dave Jones: It's like, it doesn't matter how many times
are on the chart is always dead last buddy. It's like it's just
hanging in there, Caboose. I love it.
Adam Curry: We have Cameron and Oberto here in the boardroom
Cameron. If you could push all the buttons, man, what do you
want to have happen? What can we what can we make? What can we
visualize for you materialize? Oh,
Cameron: I don't know, I've got a big list of things I need to
work on. Alberto knows there's the algorithm has been?
Alberto: Why don't you give a heads up on the algorithm?
Cameron is so interesting. Yeah. Well, you cannot myself
Dave Jones: music chart.
Alberto: But what, uh, what the algorithm is about and how to
find the most of the Middle Way of storage? And I think it's
extremely compelling, if you will.
Cameron: Yeah, well, I've got all these nodes asking for
something to do, like, what do I work on? So I've got to come up,
you know, I'd have come up with a way to tell them, you know,
hey, you should pin this show. First, this one next, or, you
know, based on your favorites, or your disk space available?
And Alberto, in the beginning, he was asking, well, I want to
host everything. So just use up all my disk and just keep
shuffling through files. So that's part of it, too, is
trying to figure out how to, you know, if somebody just sets a
percentage of their disk, say I want to use 50% of my disk or
80%.
Dave Jones: What is the camera? What is it currently?
Cameron: Currently, it's just looking at your favorites, and
looking at expiration dates. Because I've got that 48 hour
option for if there's no favorites, that you'll, it'll
stay on IPFS. As long as this gets plays, and once the plays
go away, then it'll get unpinned from all the nodes. So it's
really I don't know how to I don't know how to explain,
you're asking what is it? It's a mess of code. So yeah, that's
part of the
Dave Jones: Now Phil Yeah. So it gets that way with, with with
algorithms sometimes where you just kind of step back and
you're like, you know what, I know something's happening here,
but I'm not really exactly sure what it is.
Adam Curry: I forgot how I did that. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I know what I know what I thought I know what I was
thinking at the time, but I'm not sure it's actually doing
what I thought it was good.
Cameron: Yeah, another big problem for me right now is
consensus between all the nodes to make sure they all have the
exact same file. Oh, yeah. So when someone has a podcast with
dynamic EDS, what do you do?
Dave Jones: Man, I never thought about that. What how do you hear
the nodes
Cameron: kind of get in fights? The nodes are fighting back and
forth and say, No, this is the file.
Adam Curry: Because yeah, right. And this is wrong hash this.
Right. Oh, man. I got a Spanish ad the other day. Well, listen
to new new media show. I'm like You racist. Just because I'm in
Texas, just because I'm in Hill Country. Texas doesn't mean I
speak Spanish.
Dave Jones: Well, they'll start serving those in New York soon.
Here. Right. and Russian, all kinds of Russian. Yeah.
Cameron: Yeah, so I get a better algorithm going on. Every day.
I'm kind of tweaking the database every morning to see
which files are stuck or which No, how
Dave Jones: does that get loop? How does it get resolved? So if
if, if my node gets one gets a copy of this episode that has a
dynamic ad and the note in Adams node gets one and they don't
match? What like how do you resolve that? Less
Cameron: than one of you guys have to be declared invalid. So
right now I'm just saying, Well, Adam got it later. So Dave's
must be different. So I tell you to delete yours. And then I
might tell you to go get yours from Adam. Wow. And then there's
the issue with the nodes and the peer accounts that you might not
be able to talk to Adams node directly
Adam Curry: on purpose of talking to mind, right away, so
my node.
Cameron: So these, sometimes there might be a weak node out
there that gets a file, and it can't share it, you know, what's
the only one with the file right now, you know, when you're first
pinning. So then I've got to go in and kind of kick that node
out. So he doesn't have the file, so another node can kill
it. And I kind of secretly open which I haven't used your node,
because you got a good note. I'm like, okay, so that one's a lot
better just node. To him. Yeah, that's my
Alberto: point. So Cameron, sorry, then go ahead. No, go
ahead. Dave. My point was that, think about when I think about a
node, it doesn't use a CDN, it doesn't use CloudFront, for
example, so in our case, you have an AWS easy to instance.
And when you create an instance, you have to choose the storage,
like solid state drive, how much do you want, and you pay monthly
for the storage, then you pay for data transfer. So let's say
we have a terabyte, and now we are using 38%. of of those. That
was my, my feeling of you know what, why we are paying for a
terabyte just fill it in now. How you feel it in? It depends.
We have to favour it. Some shows, for example, we have 37.6
gigabyte have no agenda I was reading now, we have we have
tight 10.5 gigabyte of podcasting 2.0. But for those
shows where we are open to host, for example. Well, those shows
with data that are verified that they don't have the dog tag
activated because the IPF is very important to explain our
FFS podcasting honors the dog tag as well. So for those shows,
will be willing to host them for for a while or forever without
having to favorite. So as long as the show is, let's say, Save
to host. So we know there is the consensus from the for also from
the podcaster, then why not filling up our terabyte, and
then when it's filled up, there should be an algorithm that
says, Okay, we need more space from that node, what do we free,
which are the episodes that we remove? I think that's where my
standpoint was just, we are paying one terabyte, and we're
filling it in only partially, that's all that that's where it
came from?
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's like, it's like buying, it's like
buying a box with a with 200 gigs of RAM, and your database
only uses 16 that you want to get you want to get your money's
worth. Yeah.
Alberto: Right. And that's where I think the algorithm would be
would make the difference?
Adam Curry: Well, I, I'm gonna check in with Void zero again,
and ask him where he's at with a gateway, because I want to get
that up as soon as possible. We don't have a bandwidth issue, we
can certainly help with, I think pretty much everybody. Because,
you know, we have very specific bandwidth uses, it's very
periodic. You know, we get these huge bursts twice a week, and
that's kind of it. And everything else is, is just
sitting there. So we'd love to be the gateway and the one you
can experiment on and figure it all out. You know, all this
stuff. You know, we don't require payment to do the
experimentation. Let's just get it rolling. I just want to get
it away from ipfs.io. Because I'm worried about that. I just
don't want everyone to jump in and be like, Oh, it's great. And
then it's the same fear I have of, of Alby, you know, when I'll
be goes down, because they will. Everyone's going to cry. You
know, hopefully, it won't be too long. But these things happen.
So it, you know, but when it's within our group, that's
different. Because, you know, one, one posting and more says,
Yeah, we got some crap going on. All right, good. We're cool.
We'll figure it out. But if it's ipfs.io, we don't, you know, we
don't have that kind of relationship with them. Yet.
Okay.
Cameron: Well, that's a good first step, because it'd be easy
just to replace IPFS data with your gateway. Yes. And then I
could send you the 1% Because you're the only one using it.
Eventually, I want to have just like you run a node now that you
could run a gateway, so there'd be multiple gateways. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I mean, I have five five gigabit fiber to my home
that's literally sitting here. Let's fill that thing and it's,
it's a synchronous, I five up and five down, you know, I'm
happy to fill that pipe up. Oh, yeah. 100 bucks a month baby.
Go, Texas.
Cameron: So when there's multiple gateways, that's when
we run into Who do you pay? You know, so. But before that before
we figure that out, yeah, we could switch over to your
gateway,
Adam Curry: which is I mean, but even that, don't worry about the
payment part. First, let's make sure we can get the gateway
working, switch it over, then then you can start experimenting
with all that stuff. And there's plenty of people who have nodes
who will be happy to set up gateways if you have something
baked into the code.
Cameron: Right? Yeah, the payment partner. I think it'd be
easy in the first hanging over to one side. I was thinking the
other day, what if we offered IPFS? Did I owe a split? Would
they be like, hey, maybe wait a minute, you know, they might,
they might, they might change their mind.
Adam Curry: But the problem is, they're still they're still
blocked. They're blocked on? Yeah, there's just there's an
issue there. Right. Sorry. Go ahead.
Alberto: Oh, yes. And? Well, I was thinking, because you have
to set up a gateway, if you could create. And you said that
before, a way to instantiate or to spin up a gateway. As easy as
with the nodes, like a Python script. Right, we would run a
gateway like this. You see the point, like the moment you make
it reproducible? It's very easy to spin up, maybe we would be
super surprised. We would have 10 gateways.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I agree. Right. I think there's a get a
get gateway code.
Cameron: Right? Yeah. Like Adam said, He's Kansas Fiber Internet
at home, you could run a gateway. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I would, I wouldn't run where it'd be a lot of
Cameron: people like that.
Dave Jones: It's like, if I could control the gateway to
such an extent, if I had a couple of controls in place
where I could turn it off when I needed to, so that it doesn't
kill my bandwidth during a show, or limit your limit. And also,
if I could say, Okay, over this time period, let's just say 30
per month, go up to this amount of usage and then stop. Like, if
I could do those two things. Because if if I could use if I
could determine like a cap, a monthly cap of usage, then we
could run one on Linode as well, because we have lots of spare
bandwidth each month. Each month, we use less than 25% of
our bandwidth. So we could, we could also serve a gateway. But
then I would want to just to make sure that we don't do
overages, I would want to make I would say, Okay, we're going to
be able to serve, you know, four terabytes. And then and then the
the node stops, or per day or whatever, if you had those two
controls in place, I like it would be very easy to dial up a
gateway that can be used in lots of scenarios.
Cameron: Right? Yeah, I'd have to come up with a way to kind of
rate the gateways to like who's who's better than the next and
not to send it to a horrible gateway.
Dave Jones: I believe and you can sort of like that.
Cameron: Kind of like we've got with the nodes that you know,
the peer counts is what I'm going off of. If you've got a
big red large peer count then you're better node than the ones
with too because they're not communicating very well.
Dave Jones: Oops. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Adam Curry: How about we thank some people Dave You have a soft
out
Dave Jones: it's not hard out as a self doubt.
Adam Curry: self doubt. Which means we have we have what do
you have like five minutes 10 minutes? You got a couple
minutes here.
Dave Jones: I'm neg I'm at negative 20 minutes.
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. All right. I'm sorry. So let's thank a few
people who have been live boosting because it's been quite
beautiful on the booster grams. And then we'll go through all
the other people we thanks so value for value if you are new
to the concept whatever you're getting out of this project out
of the podcast and the back to us in time, talent or or
treasure, we love the treasure we'd love the booster grams,
particularly the message part which is even better than the
money part. All of it goes on to our node. We open up channels
for you whatever you need, we are here to service the entire
2.0 community and thank you to see dubs for his one on one a
one was just came in Mike Newman with Wow holy crap. We need a we
need he has a massive striper booth 77,777 Yikes. Yeah. Yikes
is right. I didn't even expect to have to use the striper
donation but it is Friday afternoon sat slinging in the
board room and y'all don't forget to check out the it's a
mood music podcast. I love doing it. You might like listening to
a go podcasting podcast guru Jason. Will 1776 We'll try to
get back to some IPFS app experiments after we finish our
V for V work Great show he says thank you, bully steed with a tu
tu tu with a test. We got sir Spencer 16,969 work sucks.
Unless we're working on podcasting 2.0 and
decentralizing Music Publishing, then we're kind of kicks ass.
Yes, that's true. Dred Scott boosting John Ross. He says
boosting work socks by John Ross 44,333 Mr. Robot boosting for
work socks value for value it just works 1945 There's Mike
Newman boosting the value split loving it. John Ross 7337. Nice.
Lead moose there. Are teat depends on how you look at it.
Blueberry 17,776. Big shout out to cotton gin and Steven B for
their work of this week with a new split kit IRC bot. Hmm, who
didn't even know
Dave Jones: Oh, I saw that. No, I saw it just a minute ago. It
came through when? When you played the when you played the
song it came through in the IRC.
Adam Curry: Oh, God so can I control that too? Is that
something that I like it shit so undeniably lit. He says You bet.
And there's Ben from rss.com with 1000 SATs and he says
Netflix is a hosting platform. Yes, yeah, we can put them out
of business to no problem. Get this IPFS podcasting thing
working sir TJ the raffle come as in with that now he's from
the dorsals and that banjo stuff at the bottom of the chart
17,777 Spotify is a scam and a part of me almost likes not
knowing stream play counts. People listen or they don't. The
music grabs you or it doesn't. It's the connection to people
who did good music and interact to them with that makes it the
magic V for V is real. It's real life. Getting people to try
boosting and trying Peach 2.0 apps is the hardest part. We
just got to keep encouraging people to try it. Thank you
brother that and you're the people to do it. The artists
will do it. net net with 10,000 SATs I love your audio blog.
Like your net net. Dred Scott 1234560 man we got a baller
blades on am Paula boosting for the boost boost Q with the DJ
horn. Go podcasting anonymous with satchel Richards 11,111
Eric p p with 33,333 There's RSS Ben again 1000 stats 100%
Banana, okay, whatever we got Carolyn with Whoa. 100,020 is
Blaze only Impala. The future is right here with podcasting. 2.0
podcasters can put out a podcast for themselves and succeed with
the V four V model. And there's Ben again with 1000 SATs bad
sign is right 19 People turned tuned into ring the bell Oh,
he's talking about the podcast one. And there's Sir Brian of
London 71,948 a massive striper Israeli boost. jiggle the
handle. I'll be in Rosarito, Mexico a short drive from San
Diego the 20th through the 30th September if anyone wants to say
hi. Okay, all right. Hey, guess he's doing the only fans meet
up. Cotton Gin with 3333 Aces. I forgot to let mom we did not not
sure what happened but it finally did work. And that is
it. Dave What do you have on your Bookstagram list and on the
PayPals
Dave Jones: see servos at this date have an air horn but I do
not have an air horn button. I don't know. I've got lots of
weird stuff, but I do not. Stop it. You're making everybody
crazy. We should just do a show like this. Hi, I'm Adam curry.
That this is not gonna work. This is this dueling horrible
things. It's not gonna happen. Oscar Oscar. Oscar marry $200
Thank you Oscar through the Pay Pal.
Adam Curry: Yay. Okay,
Dave Jones: much appreciated.
Adam Curry: Was that big piece of paper roll up?
Dave Jones: Yeah, these are these are large sheets of paper.
Thank you Oscar. Really appreciate that. Nico klein $10
No note thank you, Nico. See who got Charles say a sailor is S E
yle
Adam Curry: we think is saili Sounds right.
Dave Jones: Yeah. $10 Thank you Joe. No note there we get Travis
halls since seven $7.17 He says there's a donation only station
in San Francisco. So my fm.com that could possibly fit your
amazing live stream radio garden app is actually how I found the
in a stream thank you for all you do.
Adam Curry: Interesting. No contact them. Let them know. Let
them know we're out.
Dave Jones: See we got Some booths we got. Oh, LT ng store
that Sam means. So Sam from wavelength 934 SATs through
fountaining said WaveLight. Top 40 is based on SATs and time
splits are coming.
Adam Curry: Nice. And by the way, nice interview on the pod
news weekly review with Sam and also with Ainsley Costello
definitely worth listening to. Okay. Great. I listened to both
of them last night in bed. It was fantastic.
Dave Jones: In typical samsat the fashion of millions of of
booths. What I say tests pod fans, various configurations.
Thank you, Sam. Thank
Adam Curry: you, Sam. Appreciate it by
Dave Jones: Jean been a big row of ducks. 2222 says b&h would
likely just replace it for you, Dave. Then they did. They did.
They did. They didn't They not only replaced it. They upgraded
it to expedited replacement for free.
Adam Curry: They know who you are. They know they know what
side their bread is buttered.
Dave Jones: Anonymous podcast guru user 1200 SATs a whole
bunch of times. Thank you anonymous podcast guru user. see
who we got? Jean been again? 20 to 22 through cast ematic says
so. Can the top 100 chart also be a playlist that I can
subscribe to?
Adam Curry: That is nice. Yeah. Nice idea. Yeah. Well, the whole
idea is exportable. I saw it on lm beach.com. And I said, David,
you already make an API so that Stephen could import that didn't
know just scraping the HTML. The poor man's API, but it works.
Dave Jones: It would let me find new music and keep up with
what's trending maybe something related to the music playlist
example at Yes, that is that is a fantastic idea that I will do
this. Okay. So as soon as the chart is finished, I will make
also a downloadable version of it that conforms to the list
medium.
Adam Curry: Oh, nice idea.
Dave Jones: I like Yeah, and so then an app can just read the
feed suck in all the and just suck it in as a playlist. This
great idea GP. Excellent. Natty 48. Sir Brian of London. See no
aces. Gravity is making me Get down. Get down, Brian. Thank you
for that. Chat. F no note 3333 seed said that a couple of
times. Big last. Big last. I don't know the sexual Richard
11111 There Fountas is I can't get any of Adams podcast while
running my VPN? Probably the IPFS thing I would think.
Adam Curry: Yeah, well, VPNs I mean, key word VPN. It messes
every day. Correct? Yeah. Can mess kinds of stuff up. Yeah.
Dave Jones: You don't know what you're gonna get? Joelle w 1111.
Sasha Richard. Thank you. Joel for fountain note. Gene Everett
roadex 2222 through fountain uses boost. Boost. Nicholas B
58. A big road dogs. 22,222 SATs. Wow. You found any niece's
birthday boosts?
Adam Curry: I'll give you a little cup Thank you,
Dave Jones: Franco 10,000 Sastra Casta Matic No, no thank you,
Franco appreciate that buddy. Sam Sethi at 503 through pod
fans. Thank you, Sam. Dobby das 15,000 SATs I'm getting Dobby
das on the show. not next week but the week after he's
Adam Curry: RSS blue.
Dave Jones: Yep, that's right cool. Devadasi found in 15,000
SAS he says after an hour of unsuccessful attempts I have
finally gotten my Satoshis out of breeze and into your wallet
so let's go
Adam Curry: I know I'm supposed to have a chat with Roy today
he's he's sort of resurfaced always plan late landed very
late. So we're going to talk tomorrow but I need desperately
need to get I need to get briefed on the value times blitz
man, we've got to get this stuff upgraded.
Dave Jones: Oh, sweet. Yeah. Billy Bones 3438 No note thank
you Billy Bones and the delimiter comic strip blogger
30 3015. Through fountain he says howdy podcast index LLC
team David Adam. I'd like to recommend a podcast called curry
and the keeper. Oh very to what the name might suggest. It's not
about Indian spicy food. Instead, it follows instead it
follows Adam curry in his native born American life okay, as they
navigate life in a vibrant Texas City, you can listen to the
podcast at WWW dot Currey and the keeper.com Yo CSB.
Adam Curry: Well thank you, brother and remember k TLD live
down
Dave Jones: monthlies. I forgot we got out of here last week and
uh forgot to do the monthlies oh so double ups I've got double
have got. Emilio Kenna Molina $4 Jeremy new $5 pod verse, boys
over there $50 Basil Philip $25 Lauren ball $24.20 Mitch down at
$10 Christopher horrible Eric $10 Terry killer $5 Jeremy Kevin
all $10 Chris cow and $5 Paul Saltzman has a long list. Yeah
$22.22 Yep. Derek J Vickery. $21. Thank you Derrick. Damon
cast Jack $15 Jeremy Garrett's $5 zener zoom. Trevor's. You
know, we're limited $5 Paul Erskine $11.14 Michael Goggin $5
Charles current $5 James Sullivan $10 Sean McCune $20
Cohen glotzbach $5 Christopher Raymer $10 Jordan Dunnville $10
Michael Kimmerer $5.33 dribs got $15 Pedro gonna calvess $5
Cameron Rose $25
Adam Curry: Scotch. These are great. are so kind really
fantastic.
Dave Jones: Because we were out so long, it's almost the entire
monthly subscribers in one show. Chad Farrow $20.22. Kevin Bay
$3. From the endowment. You know, the Kevin Bacon?
Adam Curry: Yes. Yes, the endowment? Sure. Sure. Mark
Graham and
Dave Jones: Martin lindskog both gave $1 each. Thank you, Brenda,
never a pot page. $25. And that's our group.
Adam Curry: Wow, what a great group. Thank you all so much.
Really, really appreciate you really appreciate that.
Dave Jones: I feel like my paper crumble is overpowered now with
this new these new preamps
Adam Curry: actually, it's, it's okay. It's powerful. It's very
powerful. It it gives you a feeling of power somehow I like
it a lot. Thank you. Look, I'm
Dave Jones: dominating the show.
Adam Curry: Thank you all so much for supporting podcasting
2.0 podcast index. It goes directly towards running all the
infrastructure. And thank you, of course, everyone who provides
a time and talent as well you know who you are a lot of them
in the in the chat room and a lot of listening. A lot of you
are listening from around the world. We're doing amazing
things. I'm very, very, I'm just I'm just so humbled by what is
happening here. And special thanks to our guests, Cameron
and Alberto for being here today. And for all the work you
guys are doing on IPFS podcasting, and it's really
appreciated. And I think this is going to move the needle and
especially Umberto I love the I love your insight coming from a
holster how you just look at that from I think you might have
rattled a few people with this today.
Alberto: I hope not.
Adam Curry: What do you mean that we like it when you rattle
people? That's good. That is good. It's good. Anything else?
Anyone else? For the final final go round here at the table? Damn
good.
Cameron: Just. Yeah, just Thanks, Adam, for being the
master scissor guy. When you talked about running booths here
and while I was nervous to
Dave Jones: when when Adam starts a new show, everybody
gets nervous.
Adam Curry: It somehow it all just kind of works. It's really
phenomenal. Thank you all very much, Dave. Have a great weekend
brother. That made you do Okay, everybody in the chat room.
Cameron Oberto, thank you all very much. And tune in next week
for another board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 We'll see you
then.
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