Adam Curry: Casting to one over October 6 2023 Episode 149
spring by Jason all hello everybody welcome once again to
the official the one and only board podcast to join Oh, this
is where the future of podcasting goes down. What am I
saying? This is where it all goes down everything happening
with the podcast namespace all the lovely stuff and podcasts
index and organ of course we're all the creativity happens
podcast index dot social. This is the only boardroom that
splits its revenue with everybody I'm Adam curry here in
the heart of the Texas Hill Country and an Alabama the man
who fills up my hard drive say hello to my friend on the other
end ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones.
Dave Jones: I like how you intro me with a reference with it was
sort of a backhanded reference to bad server management.
Adam Curry: It broke a lot it was fun. You literally you
filled up a lot of people's hard drive. When when the when that
broke lots of fun and lots of things broke. Did you know how
much broke?
Dave Jones: I don't think so. Oh, yeah. Because I was just
getting I was getting like secondhand information from
like, la. The only thing I knew really was Oscar messaged me and
said, Hey, I'm getting a lot of timeouts. And then Steven Bhasin
am getting a lot of timeouts on the API. That was my only clue
that anything was wrong. They said just heard from nobody
Adam Curry: else interesting. So here's here's how it works. One
level down, I get to my, my wife, fountain sucks. I get my
friends, like phone's not working anymore. This and so I'm
very defensive. So I have to be careful. I'm like, Oh, really?
Okay, what what exactly is going on? And so there were two
issues. There was an issue that had been going on for several
days with fountain and that was you know, the the feed you know,
you're just you're just what is it called Feed? On fountain I'm
gonna make sure I call it the right thing here.
Dave Jones: Yeah, like your your timeline thing? Yeah. Yeah.
Well,
Adam Curry: not not just the timeline
Dave Jones: for the stream.
Adam Curry: It's not what it's called. No, no, what's what's
the actual library? So library libraries where your new
episodes? I mean, yeah, you have your home screen. But the
library so new, this is what I always go to. And so the new
episodes weren't showing up and you refresh. And they would
eventually you know, if you refreshed enough or they would
show up. So that was going on for a couple of days and Emma M
and stuff happens. So what's going on so so I just happens
yeah, we just go to the to the show itself and pick it up
there. It's five more clicks, but I get it. So I was hearing
about this and then I'm like, Have any of you pressed the
feedback button? No. To ask her here's what I'm seeing. So he
there was there was something broken on their end an API that
was flaky so he fix that but not mine. No, no, no, fix that right
away. Everybody's happy. Oh, fancy started working again.
It's really It's quite amazing. How many people in my life are
you know, are using these apps? Okay, so then I do curry in the
keeper on Wednesday night. And and I post it and I see it pop
up the so I'm always worried that I've messed up a Gu ID or
done something wrong or you know Believe me it's and it typically
is, but I see it work on on pod verse like Oh, okay pod verse
work. So now and then I can always test the feed itself by
going to breeze breeze because you know, breeze if you do
refresh, it pulls it straight from the feed doesn't go to our
index. But fountains not shown up from like, an I went to it
was intermittent all of a sudden did show up. But it didn't show
up for Tina. And this is her podcast. So now she's like, it's
not showing up. I'm like, oh, maybe it's just your app. Ah,
man. I was like, Okay, I and then the next next morning,
like, I have to delete and reinstall. I said why? Well, our
shows not showing up like don't do that. Let's let's see
Dave Jones: at this moment. Did you choose to tell her that?
That outfit is not great on her?
Adam Curry: By the way, this what you're wearing? Take that
off? That looks no good. It's terrible. No, no, this was not
the moment I did that. I don't do that. But I can do that with
my wife. She takes my advice. She really does. It's hard when
she does it. To me. It's like take that off. You look crap.
Dave Jones: That's more insulting than I've ever thought
before. Sometimes my wife will do that before. She's like,
you're you're not, you
Adam Curry: know, you know, Tina looks at me. And you see the
eyes dart up and down. And what's wrong? Is my fly open
like well, you know, there's a spot or it's wrinkled or really
those jeans. Oh, yeah. And so I couldn't figure this out. And
then I see. Then I sent another message to you to Oscar, but it
is kind of the same time I'm looking at, at the podcast index
dot social. I see oh, okay, hard drive ran up. Okay, I get it. So
that's why the API was timing. So it wasn't too bad. We all
caught it. And it worked. It was just interesting how that works
downstream.
Dave Jones: Because I was balling. When I came in, I was
listening to the boost ground ball, ball on the way. And you
made a comment on there that things were that the index was
getting, quote, creaky.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm sorry, what I meant think that was
that? No, it was not. No was not in reference to that. Okay. No,
that was in reference. So I've it again, this is how you start
to rely on things. So the split kit is incredibly important for
the booster Grand Ball. Because it makes my chapters it does my,
my magic wallet switching technology also known was known
as value time split. So does all of it and and actually, Steven B
heard me on the last episode, now you can download from it. So
that just saved me like, at least half an hour of prep time.
Now you can, you can just as an aside, now you can do your
entire playlists before even sorted. And then you can click
on the on a button and it downloads a whole zip file of
all of the all of the tracks named T so you can then put it
right into your into your playout system. Oh, yeah, this
is phenomenal. Beautiful. But then I'm looking, I'm seeing
songs that I that are in the index, but they don't show up in
the search on split kit. And they're new. So I'm so I'm like,
so I'm I'm pinging Steve, and I'm like, What's going on,
because they have a feed there in the index, they have the
medium to medium equals music. And this is the whole issue
that's been going back and forth with you and him about Max 1000
results because what he's been doing to make it to make search
faster. This, I think he's been downloading all all of the
information. He's been maintaining a separate database,
basically, to make the split kits search when you're
searching for a track, make it faster. And so Subsequently, it
wasn't showing up in less than now. Unless you go in and look
for it as a podcast. It was very complicated. So So then, and so
my way of saying, Hey, this is good, because that's what I
meant by it. And I think people took it that way is there's so
much going on that we're we're running into walls here, which I
think that's good. You were like bastard
Dave Jones: I did not did not drop the beat on you. I did not
say that. No, I was I thought you were referring to the, to
the timeouts, because that that really was like that was a
rookie move on my part. I mean, like first sysadmin.
Adam Curry: A little disappointing.
Dave Jones: I appreciate you digging the knife.
Adam Curry: No, actually, this is where I twist and pull it up.
That's that's this part.
Dave Jones: Now I'm up for air. You. So the infrastructure is
fairly simple. I mean, we have a database, sitting it sitting
behind two front end API servers. And these are just
Nginx. Reverse proxies to a PHP, you know, your
Adam Curry: standard stuff. I set those up daily. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah, no, you do. Yeah. So it's like, we have tons
of log data. We log everything. And we
Adam Curry: owe the the all the log eight my hard drive bit.
Dave Jones: Yes. Yes. And so what typically, so we remove
logs, and, you know, on on a 90 day rotation, so it's typically
never a problem. And I was just like, you know, oh, I'll get
around to throw in a disk space checker on these front ends one
day. Because I've got a script. I've got a source, of course,
yeah, of course. You're a
Adam Curry: pro. You're pro of course you have scripts.
Dave Jones: And then and I'm like, there's always something
else to do. You know? I'm like, Okay, well, this is fun. Well,
Adam Curry: is that the meme of the dog in the house on fire?
This is fine.
Dave Jones: So then, a couple of months ago, I don't even know
how long ago it's been a while now. I had turned off the log
rotation in order because I was troubleshooting a problem. And I
just didn't turn it back on. Now, this thing's growing. You
know, exponentially daily. I mean, some days the gigs. The
logs are two gigs in size.
Adam Curry: This is interesting. I've been my first company was
in 1995. I think maybe 96 on ramp. And then I had one
employee. And I've been I've run multiple companies. And I was
always kind of in charge of technology for some not in
charge of doing it. But I could translate between that and
everybody else and backward and the other way around. And I
would say throughout my career, it's always number one problem
when when a client calls or something's going haywire, is of
course DNS, it's always number one DNS. And the number of times
a log file has eaten the desk had stopped the server, I can't
count on two hands. This is a constant thing. It's really
interesting.
Dave Jones: Yes, and, but this did give me an idea. I mean, so
this, it's funny how these things. Anyone call it like,
Adam Curry: Inspire, Inspire, Inspire inspires
Dave Jones: a good word. I don't think I don't think we built the
index, I think a higher power built the index and just used
our hands to do it. Amen. But I think that got me thinking along
those lines, and I was like, you know, this is, this brings up a
point that we may need to address which is decent. Pushing
more and more towards decentralization.
Adam Curry: Well, isn't that exactly what the problem with
fountain was? I mean, it's not exactly the same thing.
Dave Jones: It's yeah, I think you could call it that. And if
we want I mean, is like we need to number one, let's let's just
take the take this put this on the table immediately.
Decentralization is incredibly difficult. Yes, doing it well,
and maintaining a level of a level of service that is
acceptable stuff that works. Quality. Yeah, like tour,
Adam Curry: like my tour is broken. You know, exactly how
you come to rely on stuff like that.
Dave Jones: In tours, not a baby project. It's been around for a
long time. It's it's got a lot of people working on it. This
stuff is not easy. So, but it just made me think, you know,
hey, we need to continue. I don't, it brought it back up
into mind that my mind that we don't need to have that doesn't
need to get lost. In everything we do. We need to always be
making incremental steps towards decentralization, robust
decentralization. Absolutely. Yeah, I can't really say exactly
what we need to do in concrete terms right now. But as far as
when I thought of logs, I immediately remembered, you
know, hey, Dave, you have not done that pod ping object
storage bucket yet, you need to do that. We need to export our,
it would be great if we exported our logs in a in a D in a like
in an anonymized fashion.
Adam Curry: So people can look at him You mean so people can
help troubleshoot and see the logs? Good idea. Sure. Good
idea. All these
Dave Jones: things. Like we just need to make the and then and
then I probably need to go back to the Rebrov rebroadcasting pot
pings, because we went down that.
Adam Curry: I'm just gonna say it right now, all of this
eventually comes back to the freedom controller.
Dave Jones: A really long, roundabout way to build
Adam Curry: this is really what we should have done. Yeah. It's
so true, though. It's so true. Well, I had my own. Well,
actually, let me back up, I realized how vulnerable be
vulnerable we are now that's not the right way to start. Is there
anything else you want to say about this specifically, because
we're gonna get back to decentralization? I think I
don't want to cut you off mid mid thought pattern here. And I
know our time is limited today. Darling, I know that you have to
get back to your wife.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Get a firm. No, we were both in Texas
this week. And I was in the house in Dallas. You were in
Houston. And I'm assuming that what you're going to tell me is
related to your Houston experience.
Adam Curry: Yeah, well, yeah, I can start I was going to start
there eventually. We'll get there. So yes, I was at the I
was asked a long time ago by the Focus on the Family guys.
Specifically Rob, you know, focus on the family. They have
huge media. They have like 4 million listeners and they they
used to be they started 37 years ago just as a radio show. Now
they got podcasts and all kinds of stuff. They're very
successful. And Rob is on the border Spark Media and Spark
Media. Um, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I think it was kind
of started because or it was certainly accelerated as certain
podcast conferences were a little triggered by Christian
showing up which is I mean, oh my god imagine and and so not
not necessarily that they were showing up but you know, like,
we can't really have Christians on panel polls and stuff like
that because it triggers other groups. So risky. And this was
very prevalent at Podcast Movement last year in Dallas. So
but this was started during just before COVID, I think. And it
took off. And so there's probably about 150 God casters,
as I affectionately call them who who attend this conference,
and this was this was their biggest year yet, I would say.
And so they asked me to do the keynote on the future of
podcasting, which is always like, okay. But so we went a day
early, and we hung out and what an enjoyable time we had. And of
course, my wife is now podcaster. So this made it even
better ended with you. Yeah. Oh, and I took pastor Jimmy and
Annette from living up in a down world. You know, they're my
protegees they're my they're my podcast protege said it'd be
good for you to come to a conference, we'll see what
Dave Jones: it's like. And I think to this conference, young
Pettaway.
Adam Curry: Exactly, you know, you can snatch the pebbles from
my hand. And the first thing you notice is, what is not at this
conference? There's no talk about how many downloads, you
got none of this, there's nothing it's only you know, how,
how do you get get the word out? How do you promote? How do you?
What do you use? How, how, and a lot of people, you know, it was
really interesting to say I really even people with because
no award show, even people who want awards are saying, I didn't
really know if anyone listened at all, now that the feedback
mechanisms are so poor. And so as I've been telling you about
2.0, and booster grams, and even just the seeing streaming SATs
come in, I'm showing it to him like, wow, that's really
exciting. So he had that feeling, then so this is
something we've talked about before. So it was Dave Jackson
was there, he won an award. I think most influential podcasts
are of course, he's been teaching people how to podcast
for 17 years or whatever. Just as a quick aside, they had a
vocal coach for a lot of big Nashville and gospel worship
singers like really like big names that you'd hear on, on the
radio. And he was really at a really interesting talk about
about diction and what how you can use your voice to create
more engagement with people. And it's the opposite of a vocal
fry. So vocal fry is all as extending the vowels. This has
any had some examples, good diction, where you want to bring
people in you extend your consonance it was really
interesting.
Dave Jones: In Whoa, give me an A.
Adam Curry: I just didn't you extend your constant?
Dave Jones: Keeps it like your T's? Yes. Your G's.
Adam Curry: No, extend them, you almost fry fry frog. Can't do it
on the constant. Anyway, it was just really fascinate this guy,
you know, some of the biggest names in the music business.
They'll call him up three hours before the show, I can't see my
voice. I don't know what to do, and then they'll walk them
through it. Fascinating. The other thing was, a lot of people
understand algorithms. They're like, why are we getting shafted
by algos? You know, and they really understand how bad it is,
then. And this was just just as another quick aside, since I was
I was doing this keynote and I'm looking up stuff and I looked up
the Greek word for churches Ecclesia when it doesn't really
mean a place of worship, it means place where people come
together can be a watering hole, which is why you know the whole
idea of churches just in in the community and not up on a hill
per se is a big holy spot. But then I just by chance I looked
up algos to that I want to know if algorithm algorithm is named
after some Persian mathematician and but algos, which is a
abbreviation if you look up that word, the literal Greek word is
pain and suffering and I just felt that was wow, that's so so
prophetic. algos Yeah.
Dave Jones: algos in Greek is a neuter noun literally meaning
pain. Yeah, pain or
Adam Curry: suffering. Anyway, so as I was just thinking about
in the keynote, explain how I came to all this. But I realized
that these people need protection. And so I went
through the whole history of basically RSS, not just
podcasting. I watched your tone. Oh, okay. So you already heard
some of this. Alright, thank you. And I think it really shows
the true Genesis. For the first time I think I told the story of
podcasting all the way to its genesis, which is not
Dave Jones: that was that was the bet. I think that was the
best version of it. that that I've heard all thanks. Thank
you. I mean, I'm talking about your, your various, your various
permutations of telling the history, I think I think that
was like, I don't know something about it, it was laid out well,
and like, you just kind of went through. It wasn't just a
timeline, it was timeline with like, what, what things meant to
you at the moment, instead of just, you know, sort of like
looking back on it, because when you look back on it, you can
have like, 2020 vision about things. But you were you were
throwing in some stuff about what you what you thought at the
moment, and he didn't, you know, like, at any moment, you didn't
think it was going to be necessarily big, or sometimes
you did. And it's like, it was it was a good version of that
story.
Adam Curry: Thank you. I'll link in the show notes for today's
podcast. And I would say 99.9% of the people, basically, no one
knew that podcasting had come out of web blogs, which had come
out of RSS be like, Oh, really? So there's no understanding. And
I really, and it really solidified for me just going
through that itself, that a podcast is not the product that
you're hearing right now a podcast is not it's a podcast is
the actual transmission system. Yeah, that truly is what it is.
And we've lost that over time. So long way around to say, as
important as RSS is and, and this mechanism that we've
created is, is incredible, the industry, the space that we've
created, is, by its nature decentralized, because we have
all these different hosting companies, and they have all
have a basic set of features and some of more some of you know,
they differentiate and they there's a very healthy
coopetition, which has existed amongst them for a long, long
time. That part is really, really good. Of course, because
of the the sheer size, sheer amount of podcasts that are out
there and fees, you need aggregators, you need these
intermediaries, just to make it. I mean, the new iPhone can't
even run its own software without overheating. So imagine,
you know, having to aggregate all this stuff, just as so and
that's that's it's really a Cluj, we are a Cluj. We're hack,
because, you know, on a mobile device, maintaining managing
pinging, you know, all the feeds so that your search works
quickly, etcetera. And you have to question how much of that is
necessary on a mobile device. But, but all of that you need
something like us in the middle, to make all that work and also
to stimulate the creativity, the forward motion, so we can
implement things very quickly. Of course, the downside is we
come to rely on it, you know, we we in essence, had an Alby blip,
you know, get Albie is going to blip, and it's going to it's
going to throw everybody out off kilter. If it has, I mean, it's
happened like, Oh, we got to reboot a server or Fountain has
to do something, these things happen. But it can happen. It
can be disastrous, ultimately. So you are correct, sir. And I
went back to you know, we got to gateway set up that is no agenda
infrastructure, but Mark Boyd zero, set, set up IPFS gateways
on all of our servers. And is that functions function? Uh,
yeah, so I went back to, to putting Bookstagram ball on
IPFS. And I'm actually, now I will be able to try IPFS with no
agenda because it's on the same servers, it doesn't make any
difference, I know that it's not going to fall down because it's
going through ipfs.io it's going through the thing, it's podcast,
gateway.io or something. So we'll really be able to tax the
system on a future no agenda episode, which not everybody
will receive, I'm sure. But that's a really interesting
first step, I think towards decentralization of the entire
ecosystem. And we're starting from from the end product going
back in so the next piece is what do we do with the feeds you
know, when the next piece is, what else can we can we put in
into a distributed nature and really make a distributed
eventually, where there you don't have to rely on a gateway?
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think I think we the, the infrastructure
itself needs to be distributed and pod ping needs to be more
piping is well is fairly well distributed now. But it needs
to, it needs to be filled out. I think. It needs to be filled out
with more with more data, and I can make that happen. With some
work. I can make it where we talked about this before where
we need I guess to make pod ping more useful to people. It would
be nice to have HOST, THE feeds that are not pod ping enabled,
have those coming through pod ping also, so that we can
broadcast our discoveries of new I have new, right.
Adam Curry: So they so yeah, so we become a pod ping bridge?
Dave Jones: Yes. As I think if you know if anybody has reasons
why that's a bad idea, tell me I'm open to it. But I think I
would kind of like that, because I think about it this waitlist
is what we tell people is sometimes people say, hosting
companies or whoever will say, hey, I need API keys, because I
want to send I want to add our feeds auto ml automatically to
the index. So I want to hit the add in point, right?
Adam Curry: You can do that with Ronnie, hey, can you do that?
Dave Jones: I can do that. Yeah, but you can do that with puppy.
And that's what I always tell him. I'm like, if that's all
your need, then the API for you don't need the API, just use
piping. And everybody sees the feed. And we'll add it. This
this way. If we filled out pod pain with as much data as we
could, then you, anybody could just watch the fire hose, the
piping fire hose. And within a month, they would have virtually
the
Adam Curry: whole index. Yeah, the whole or the 400,000. True
active feeds.
Dave Jones: The active thieves.
Adam Curry: Yeah, the ones that matter?
Dave Jones: Well, interesting. You've just created a database
just by watching the feed. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So it's kind of it's not really glorious work. But
for apps to be able to do this, too. I mean, on their own, just
say, Okay, here's the my user has 20 podcasts, let's just say,
I think that might be pretty fair, although a lot of those
have unread flags on them. And so I'm really only trolling for
these for these 20 feeds. So I could be either constantly
listening, or there could be a lightweight service that says,
maybe this is maybe I'm saying something stupid here. But a
lightweight service that you run somewhere that there is some
something that runs for you, that says, Oh, you're these 20
feeds. Okay, we'll, we'll ping you when we have one of these 20
feeds that you need to update
Dave Jones: is that it's kind of like, it's like push
notifications. Yeah.
Adam Curry: It's a push notification. Yeah, that's
exactly what it is. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Like, Alex already has a proof of concept
work working for an Android slash, like GTK desktop push. I
hope I'm getting that. Right. So I mean, there's, there's already
been work done on that if, you know, push notifications are,
they're cheap and light, like, you could run a $5 Linode. And
set up a push notification server. So I don't think it's a
heavy lift for pretty much any app, right? If they just watch
pod ping. And then they have a list of a list of feeds they're,
they they're interested in, that their users subscribe to, then
they just, all they do is just push it down to the to the app.
And then when the app receives the push notification, they just
knows, it just knows to trigger an RSS feed refresh.
Adam Curry: If we get this right, this fixes a lot of
things in life. Now you can fix this for for what we used to
call microblogging, also known as social networks, you can fix
a lot of things, a lot of broken things, which would be fixed
with this with utilizing pod ping in this way, I think it's
very exciting.
Dave Jones: It just makes the whole discussion and you know,
you add in there, the Canada stuff, with the candidate
Canadian registration requirements and things like
that. It all just points towards the job's not done. We have it's
done from the standpoint of, hey, there's a database anybody
can download that that parts that parts, but then, like, I
feel like we I feel like we have to push it further and further
and further and never stop. I mean, I don't think there's ever
a point when you stop and say, Okay, it's finished.
Adam Curry: I agree. They gave me they gave me a lifetime
achievement award. And I was like, I have so much more to do.
Dave Jones: Here. You're dead.
Adam Curry: It's very, it's a great honor. It's nice, you
know, of course, it's like oh, well, that's really kind of you
to say, although what did I really do? You know, everyone
else did the work. You know, I just the look pretty like yeah,
that's right. Alright, so
Dave Jones: now that the content the content is so much of the
work though. I mean, like that, you can't discount that either.
Like, you know, yes.
Adam Curry: I've never gotten a word but never gotten award for
the content.
Unknown: No, you never will.
Adam Curry: It someone said You know Adam curry getting a
lifetime achievement award at a Christian podcast conferences
like Caitlyn Jenner getting Woman of the Year and I
thought it was funny.
Dave Jones: Funny thing to say I don't even know what it means
just a good line.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I liked it. I
Dave Jones: did I did kill a rooster this past week you know
on purpose. Yes on purpose. For Why'd it last night?
Adam Curry: Oh, you ate? I thought the roosters weren't
that tasty. roosters are good to eat?
Dave Jones: No, they're great to eat. This thing was delicious.
No they they make you want they must be delicious because they
make you want to kill them. Oh, yeah. So annoying.
Adam Curry: Was not did you kill them just because you were
annoyed by him or you were hungry or combos?
Dave Jones: Is a combo? Yeah. But I never done the whole neck
pop thing.
Adam Curry: I've never done that either. To be honest,
Dave Jones: I haven't. No. Okay.
Adam Curry: Is it satisfying is it No? No. Did you walk around
Do
Dave Jones: you wake me up every morning but and I'm really want
to eat you but this is said but then I get over it.
Adam Curry: Wow, you're that you're real man. Your Trad man
right there. I felt
Dave Jones: like a man. It's so very manly after that's my wife
had hardass for me.
Adam Curry: It's a very primal thing. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Hey, it was like it was like, Yeah, I'm so proud of
you for doing that. Yeah, no, I'm proud of me. I was six the
top 100 By the way, is fixed. Oh, what
Adam Curry: did you fix? What did you do to fix it? Oh, God.
Dave Jones: I told you last week, I knew how to fix it. And
I was gonna fix it. Go visit the page.
Adam Curry: Honestly, I haven't looked today. I'll be quite
honest with you. Because I've been. There's a lot of other
stuff going on. Okay, this chart is heavy. Okay. I'm just going
to scroll down and guess that it's no, no, no, you know, 165
Oh, no, I'm gonna go back up to the top. Yeah. Okay. Right at
the top. That's a great hack. Podcast. 2.0. Top 166.
Dave Jones: Yeah, he changes the couch. Ah, this problem is
solved. This was
Adam Curry: fixed. Yes. You're so right. Yep. Problem solved.
Perfect. All
Dave Jones: right, moving on. Moving on to the next, Larry.
Adam Curry: Like, what did he change? They click on something
No, no. So along with this would come? I guess categories comes
along with with this with the feels like everything comes from
Can we assume that we work now on like, what data? Can we get
into pod ping? Certainly work on both at the same time. So, you
know, to the decentralization quest, at the same time,
upgrading pod pod ping and then adding things in? Can I presume
the categories? It can be a part of this?
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think I think categories. Like once you
have once we have the pod ping sort of thing. I think any of
this stuff can be put on to pot thing like, because pod ping
those mediums. You can you know, there's some kind of
registration service can say, you know, a, I want to be
notified, I want to get pod thing notifications that only
want to get the ones this category.
Adam Curry: This cat is for music. While we haven't already
live, isn't that isn't that? Right. I mean, we have those
things,
Dave Jones: those filter filters as well as your filters. Yes.
Yeah. But But then, if we have a robust category system, then you
could, you know, filter that down even further and say, Well,
I want only pains that have that are music medium and our metal.
Adam Curry: Right? Yeah, of course. Of course.
Dave Jones: What is it shows or whatever. Now,
Adam Curry: I'm sure people have gone through this before maybe
the what was the was the thing that when they get on the
category? Yeah. I mean, how do you how do you create a
mechanism to build a category? Master list? Because everybody
has an opinion on this. Of course,
Dave Jones: this is where it comes down to sort of two
fundamental proposals and or ideas that have been batted
around in the past. And I've always deferred this
conversation because it's messy and complicated. And we had
bigger fish to fry but I think it's I think we're I think we're
getting back around to this where we're this is becoming
something we can work on.
Adam Curry: And we're a family now. You know, we have hundreds
of people. We got a huge boardroom and we're family and
we all know how to work with each other and converse and not
get offended and figure stuff out. I think we can
Dave Jones: power through this. Yeah. But it always comes down
to either you Have a master list somewhere that's curated by a
community. Or it's free for all free form. And really, they both
have pros and cons. The good arguments can be made on both
sides is really is true, I think. But I think we, James
came up or proposed a long time ago to have sort of freeform
freeform tags that are more like keywords freeform categories
where you can, you don't, there is no master list like
Adam Curry: Like just, you know, even though it wouldn't be
something that would be like an APA style guide God caster would
would be a tag that I think a lot of people would understand.
But that you could have subcategories in that where you
know, sermon, you know, readings, etc, etc.
Dave Jones: Right? Yep, exactly. Is it? You know, this? This
makes I think it when it when he first proposed it, I was like,
Yeah, I don't like that.
Adam Curry: There's like tag tags, basically.
Dave Jones: Yeah. But then, but then, you know, we talked about
it. Let's say we, I mean, me and Alex talked about it a few times
and like it. I think it I think it does make sense. I think it
does make sense because you can, you can after the fact see,
like, you can build this out to where it is freeform. Real time
like where people can put put in, in freeform, but then you
can also use what's done what's been done in the past to make
like a hint, hint list.
Adam Curry: Well, there's prior art for this. Okay, prior art is
hashtags on Twitter, prior art is hashtags on Mastodon and the
Autocomplete is exactly what you're saying. Um, so if I'm, if
I'm going to go in and I want to do a hashtag, this is a bot. And
I type in, you know, piece of crap bot, it'll say, oh, hashtag
bot is what you probably want to use. Because here's how many
people are using that hashtag.
Dave Jones: Okay, good. Yeah, good explanation. Yeah, I think
that's, I think that works. I mean, because yes, you're gonna
you run the risk of somebody where you have you know, heavy
metal and somebody spells it heavy space metal, and another
person says heavy metal with all one word. You're going to run
into those issues. But with with the autocomplete you'll, you'll
make that less of a problem.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's human engineering. It prompts people
to think oh, let's just do this for a second if I go to hashtag
explore on Well, if I do search on Mastodon I do bot. The let me
see what it says. It auto completed some stuff for me.
Botani bot D. Bot bots. And it shows me how many people in the
past two days have used this hashtag. That's human
engineering. You know, it tells me like well, if I want to use
if I want to say this is a bot, I don't want to use bots because
only two people have used that five people have used bought or
use bought.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this is this may make sense to
me. But because when you have a master list somebody has to
curate the list in some and then you have you're gonna have
Adam Curry: yours always follow tears always come from this
tears. Tears. Yep. Now,
Dave Jones: in everybody in the categories. The Apple categories
are just they
Adam Curry: limited and unlimited is fine limiting. Yes.
And that's not satisfying to you, but it's satisfying to
people who drink Cupertino water for some reason, you know,
something in the water. Stacy? Just kidding, Stacey. Yeah.
Dave Jones: But yeah, I think I think there's, there's a lot to
the duration we had in the start. I
Adam Curry: like it. And it is I said the prior art is huge,
passionate people search Twitter for hashtags. I see my wife
doing it. Like, oh, I found this hashtag and they follow
hashtags. You can follow a hashtag This is this is a huge
deal.
Dave Jones: We'll see I'm staring at the podcasting 2.0
Top 166 right now and there's there's like, it's so obvious
that right connected to each one of these tracks. There should be
some hashtags of what these tracks are. lambaste should say
metal you know, hashtag metal hashtag, you know. Trance house,
you know, whatever.
Adam Curry: How about hashtag booster gram ball?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. Hashtag radio DJ. What are some? Because
we, you know, we keep, we keep wanting we're struggling to,
because to define
Adam Curry: words, that's fine. Yeah, like, I realized I was
talking to out, you know, I talked to Alex too. You're not
the only one, by the way. Yes. Alex is like this mystery
mysterious man in the middle, he pings everybody. And like, all
of a sudden you realize he's talking to everybody and like,
like,
Dave Jones: his whole his bedroom wall has little strings
connected
Adam Curry: with pictures and flowers picture. Yeah, yes,
that's a very creepy red yarn. And, you know, we were talking
about the definition of radio what, what is what is radio? You
know, and I think you at one point said, Well boosted grand
ball that's, that would be a radio category. So now it's not
radio, you know, but is radio is that a restream of an existing
radio station? Now I personally think radio is the protocol.
It's the it's the transmission system. But that's me. You know,
a lot of people Oh, radio, I know what that means. You know,
why is that? Is that 24 hour weather? Is that radio to you?
So all these things, I think it's hashtag solve a lot. And as
I said, it just seems like a human, it seems to work for
humans. Really does. That's why it took off. That's why you
don't see, you know, that's why you see it working. So well.
Just that feels very good to me.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think I think we can start there.
Because it's so it's such an easy thing for everybody to
understand. And now where the AG, you know, step, step two of
that will be where to aggregate it. So where do you, you know,
obviously, we would, as we, as we see those those categories
come in, we would aggregate that into, you know, into a list
that's public and search in searchable and that sort of
thing.
Adam Curry: Also, it's much more worldly, inclusive, you know, so
people can have Spanish hashtags, you know, different
languages. You know, I think that makes a lot of sense.
Dave Jones: Yeah, the if. So, for if radio is the medium. And
then country is the category. That's pretty self explanatory.
Yeah. Really? You're listening to a country music radio
stations?
Adam Curry: Yeah. Then you could even do hashtag FM. What would
that do? FM. That means it's also on FM.
Dave Jones: Radio. It's Oh, it's as it's like a rebroadcast of
your radio station. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All those those things?
Like that's something that you they if you curate a list, what
you would do, of course, yeah. It's hard to think of those edge
cases all at the beginning,
Adam Curry: of course, what what you'll see then is, and this has
always been an issue is people will put 50 hashtags, remember
that, and then the beginning with Twitter, people like 50
hashtags, just to get picked up by the hashtag searchers to
theirs. But again, I think there's all prior art on this
that we can look at.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we just have some, you know, limit. Well,
well, that that works. I mean, it's the same issue with
keywords in the in iTunes namespace now. Because people
put keywords in there. And you already know ahead of time that
you're, they're never going to look past I think it's like 10
or Sure, sure. And everybody just understands, you know, if
you put more than 10 in there, you're, you're wasting your
time. So that that would emerge to from the way this thing is
used. I don't know if we want to put you know, I don't know if we
want to put these things in pod pain, or just let them be
discoverable out. That may be too much. We may just discover
them from the feeds. I don't know. All this stuff's yet to be
determined. But
Adam Curry: sounds like a good way to go. Sounds like a good a
good way to start.
Dave Jones: Yeah, in May, and we have. So here's the plan for
phase seven. From my standpoint, let me get over there and let me
get over there on the hub. He's
Adam Curry: on the hub Everybody watch out. Watch out. Have you
roped ready he's
Dave Jones: by the way, Eric peepee yeoman's work getting
getting hell the new version of hell pad on the Start nine
Adam Curry: I know you want you want to be totally blown away. I
had sideloaded heli pad. So then out shows up in the marketplace.
It says update available. It updated my side loaded, install.
Nice, impressive, very impressive. Very impressive. And
it works it's killer. And now if you do a value time split the
remote item good is resolved in the in the entry. So you see the
song name. Now you can click on it and it takes you right to the
I guess to the link. The length is in the see if that's right.
Now
Dave Jones: we need to figure out if this new version of hell
pad is showing so now you have strange you have access to the
streams right?
Adam Curry: Oh, I already had that in his in his version.
Dave Jones: Okay Did you do you see any of samsat these boosts
come through only through the streams or the boosts from pod
fans
Adam Curry: I believe I've seen a pod fans entry I'm not sure
there was probably under boost it was for one sat so obviously
I didn't stay looking at it for very long You didn't let it
later on. I did not linger let me see I've got a I'm looking at
streams right now. And let me see I have pod verse fountain
breeze cast thematic I do not see a pod fans yet. I don't know
if Sam's listening they've had a pretty busy week you know he's
he's all star and everything. British Podcast Awards. He's
celeb nice influencer
Dave Jones: if you can take a break from your wine
Adam Curry: from your caviar from your caviar now I don't see
it yet. I have hot Well, you know I could I could look at my
export. I have a feeling that I there was a pod fans that came
in.
Dave Jones: Eric AP is asking what the pod stands issue is the
pod. The issue here is that helipad. I think I'm filtering
on just for the action in the TLV. I think I'm filtering on
just boost and stream. And some of the pod fans TLVs were coming
in with with other things that were not in the protocol. So
they were getting they were just there. They're just getting
disappeared into the into the into the memory Hall. And I can
see them on our node because I can see the database directly
and I can part reparse the TLV has been in hell Upad I think is
not even pulling them in to the DB.
Adam Curry: By the way. Sam Sethi great job on the
Progressive Web App.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, your
Adam Curry: pod fans really enjoyable. I used it. I couldn't
find the boost button though. It was just me. And it's an icon. I
know I was streaming sites but I I'm like where's the just wasn't
apparent and sometimes you're so used to something that you that
something new comes along? You don't quite understand it yet.
Dave Jones: I love the Yeah, only Yeah, that's right. Eric
can only does boostin stream. I love the installable PW A's. I
mean, which is a true PWA to begin with. You know, it's not
just a web app.
Adam Curry: It's a progressive. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Dave Jones: It's like it's when you when you go that extra step
and make it sort of into an installable item. Like music
side project. And that can or LM Bates. I'm sorry. It's like it
makes a huge difference if it just feels good. It feels like a
native app.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah, no. Drip. I haven't put. We haven't done the
Umbral update of a helipad. Yet I just. I met. I met this weird
point. I had a great I had a great meet up with Spurlock out
in Dallas. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we had beers. And you know, he was
we're just talking over things. And I mean, I'm in this weird
point right now where I've got it's a probably feel like Steven
B, where there's so many. There's so many avenues of
things to roads to go down. I'm not sure which one to tackle
next. Because like hell Upad needs love. The index needs. You
know, API needs love. The namespace needs love.
Decentralization pod paying. There's so many potential
avenues that you can just go down.
Adam Curry: I have a pod fence, I found a pod fence. previously
ran ball episode nine.
Dave Jones: So nine is less reason.
Adam Curry: Now 10 is the most recent I just I was just looking
and it was eight SATs though but it was a booster gram. I think
they'd have a message. Just see
Dave Jones: in did it show up in the boost section or the most
stream so it
Adam Curry: was number two. Boost. Taylor Williams. Okay. So
that was mystery solved. Did it does come through Sam's just
drinkin. He's not listening to us.
Dave Jones: He's not listening to the show. Yes, I'm not I'm
not sure which avenue to go down. At this point. I don't
know where to focus my efforts because we the top 100 It's
mostly stable. It's working. Yes, it needs it needs stuff
too. But then everything else needs stuff. I'm not real sure.
You got an opinion?
Adam Curry: Well, we just got we just okay. I'm okay. Yes, I do
have an opinion. But okay, but it's more from the podcaster
perspective podcasts or listener, etc. I would like to
whatever we do, I would like it to help solve or work towards
solving one of the big issues of podcasting with and this is one
of my aha moments, which is discovery. So the best way to
promote a podcast is to have another podcast or talk about
it. Or if it's an interview show to be on that show, and this is
this has worked consistently. I go on other podcasts, and then
the numbers go up, and people will show up, show up and start
to listen to my work and vice versa. Which is I think what CSB
is so brilliant at is, you know, he's promoting other podcasts
out of the goodness of his heart, which, which I really
appreciate. And it's a very, it's a very important mechanism.
And it's, it's serendipity. So, you know, obviously, pod roll is
something that that does that. But I being in my music mode
right now, I really want to be able to surf the grid to go from
song heard on podcast, also heard on these podcasts, because
that will eventually be email snippet of podcast, also hurt
played on this podcast, here's that podcast, here's although
it's the linking of it, it's kind of the, it's the web grid
connection. It's the it's, it's a huge idea, the remote item.
And in the end, including that, in feeds is a mind boggling
feature. And its infrastructure. And so if there's any way any
whatever we do, if it can facilitate that, and of course,
we have an easy, an easy way to start, which is with music.
That's something I would love because I know that that will
accelerate the amount of people doing podcasts that include
music. So it will, it will both create new podcasts and it will
invigorate older ones. And it will kickstart something that
is, is clearly music in feeds is podcasts. I don't care what you
call it. It's a podcast. It's a very short podcast, it's a three
and a half minute podcast, it's a podcast, no one can tell me
that there's a real difference between an RSS feed with an
enclosure of 120 megabytes that includes two people talking, or
three megabytes that includes two people singing I mean, you
know, it's like it's the same thing. It's a podcast. So now I
understand the the the surface differences. But that connection
that surfing around has me very, very, very excited because
that's me. Oh, that's that's the web. That's That's what life is
that's connection.
Dave Jones: Okay, so where do you think I know where that I
think I know where I need to start then. Okay, because so
remote item is still not in the index. So that's the, that's the
place to start there. Put the remote item but the remote Items
table in the index so that we can begin to properly capture
that from the feed, then then we can start to do the linkage
there. Then we can pump that stuff out into other in not just
through the endpoints but through or not just the the API
itself, but we can put it into the chart. And all that I'm
assuming that's where this ends up right in the chart and in
Indian ln beats and pod fans and pod verse And
Adam Curry: yes, I think that that's an important. I think the
apps I mean, this is something that the Oscar sent us a screen
recording of something which looked really cool and was kind
of a version of what I just said, when I was like hey, you
know this, this this podcast played this song, click on this
song you can now you now you're in the artist, you can see
everything the artist is doing. Then he had a version of that.
Again, I think that the the top 100 which currently let's see,
this is the top 100 This week is 166. Let's see what are we up
to? We're still 166 Oh yeah, it takes an hour to update. That
needs to be in apps. This is the I mean, we went through this
last week. We don't want to be the destination. This is just a
play out which is good to get us looking at what it does to have
something to look at. But on the last booster grand ball, I said
top 100 Go to Ellen beat now and I want to be able to say, Gosh,
look at your look at your app. It's in there. Yeah.
Dave Jones: So okay so that yeah, all right. So we you want
to be you want podcast, you want podcast guru to be able to say
it to be able to show you know you listen to a song and then it
says you know hey here's the for DJ shows that that song was
played on.
Adam Curry: I mean, I can see it going even further than that but
yes, because ultimately
Dave Jones: will go go further. Okay. All right. So
Adam Curry: I heard a song on a podcast I heard a play it on a
podcast. Wow, that was a song. Remember that? That song? Yeah.
That was the first the first version of this song. Yeah, I've
heard it on a podcast. Brother Love wasn't it brother love
Brother Love. Current podcast? Yeah, I think let me just see if
I can find this. Okay, so I'm listening to I wish I could find
that song.
Dave Jones: Tell me that's not the song for today?
Adam Curry: No, no, otherwise was the song I heard it on a
podcast. It was good. It was a good song. So I hear a song on
the podcast. Then my app is saying here are the songs that
were played in this podcast. Oh, I'm going to click on the song.
Boom. Now I can follow the artists so that when the artists
releases something new, I'll get it I can see other songs that
this artist has released as a part of this collection maybe or
you know or tap in to see their collections albums etc. I can
and then this song was also played on these podcasts I can
click to that, but I can also in the future see this song
includes a sample from this song Okay, or this song includes work
by this person. I mean, this is where the whole index comes into
play right? This artist you know this this guitar player? I know
this is not remote items are but I'm just giving you the
overview. Oh, Sir sir sir Spencer played on this well,
what else? It's there Spencer do this is this we have all the
data. And it's not all the same thing. It's not all remote item.
But I think you understand what, what I'm what I'm talking
Dave Jones: I do? Yeah, yeah. Do in this. Yeah, this is very,
this is doable. Because we can begin to link these we begin to
link those things together with the person tag and other things.
I mean, like because we haven't really put you know that that
second sort of like, what would you call like second level?
Connect connections or inner interop? Where where you have so
you have a DJ show? It was okay, so booster grand ball. The
booster grand ball you're playing? You're playing songs by
let's say you play able in the wolf? Yes. Well, then sir
Spencer's person tag is in the remote is in the feed is
referenced by remote item. So you can go get it. And now show
that now show his picture. And, you know, and that kind of
thing, and then also pull in the other albums that his person tag
exists in?
Adam Curry: Yes. Precisely all of that stuff. And then it's,
and this solves the big problem of discovery. It really does. I
mean, it makes it so much it's so much better. Also, I promised
everyone in my keynote we were going to do that. Just saying
Dave Jones: I made a special promise. Just
Adam Curry: say I did make a special promise. Because no one
else can. This only works with with RSS. No one No one else can
do this. It's It's so unique. is incredibly unique.
Dave Jones: I've got a I've got an ISO you can fire well on that
one. No.
Adam Curry: Okay. I mean, right. Yeah. Congratulations to Mitch.
Mitch Downey. quitting his JD day job for three months. That's
some dedication right there, man.
Dave Jones: He's, he's been dedicated since day one.
Adam Curry: I know. But he was born dead. I know. But he's just
like, I'm gonna I'm gonna focus on this for three months and
just go go go. I love that. Yeah, and that's balls. That's
balls. I love that. Can I say it again? How much I love. I love
it. I love that. That's great. Mitch. I've my most exciting
moments of life has been when I've quit things. Yeah, to do
coding to do something else.
Dave Jones: Yes, the Mitch is hardcore. He when He He believes
and something he goes, he goes for it. He doesn't just, you
know, he's not he's not a half assed person. That I think,
yeah, you know, the the pilot that the other thing means
Spurlock talked about was just the podcast ecosystem in
general. I mean, it's so messy right now with you know, all
even I mean every week it's it's layoffs and and stuff I mean
it's it's nerve wracking time to be making a business that is
dependent on podcasting for your main source of revenue. I mean,
like you can make it, if you really think it through and you
and you have a plan and you do a good job. And you don't, you
know, you don't, you're not thinking exit strategy, you're
thinking about your product, not your exit. If you if you think
things through that way, I think you can, you can for sure, make
money in providing a service or a product and podcasting, but
it's not I mean, we gotta be honest, it's not. It's scary.
It's a scary time. And anytime somebody sticks their neck out
and says, you know, hey, I believe in I believe in my
product and my I believe in myself and I'm going to make
this happen. A kudos man. I got mad respect for
Adam Curry: that. Absolutely.
Dave Jones: Absolute mad respect. And he's a no puffers
has been around. People forget that. You know, I'm just gonna
geek on pot first for a little bit run out. Commerce has been
around for, like 10 years, quite a while Oh, yeah, way before
podcasting way before we came along. Like it's been up. I
don't think it was fully open source. I think that came later,
maybe in the last maybe two years ago. But pod verse has
been around a long time. And he's, that's dedication. And
that's what you see with podcasting apps in general.
Typically, podcast apps that are written by individuals, small
shops, you know, think think about Franco, Marco. Jason over
podcast, Guru, Xavier, a podcast addict. These these apps, they
typically they are not the developers don't bail out on
them. You don't see these these things just going kaput. No,
they stick around. And the developers hate they they leave
even Martin from pod friend. His his life has been messy the last
couple of years. And he's had to he's had to leave and then come
back to development and that kind of thing. But that thing
just keeps running. You're still working? Yeah, it's got a
dedicated user base that use pod friend all the time, and he just
keeps running. And it makes it's just it's important, man,
because you can I have a bad habit of the demon I fight on a
daily basis is cynicism. I'm not gonna if I'm not careful, I can
just be overcome with cynicism. Really, and, and just be like,
it's all bullshit. This is all everybody's, you know,
everybody's in it for themselves. And I'm not talking
about just podcasts I'm talking about in general, you know, with
with life and government. And, you know, when I see things like
the Canadian registry stuff, I'm like, you know, thinking it's
just ratchet effect. Of course, they're gonna screw everybody,
you know,
Adam Curry: that gets me really excited. I'm like, Oh, wow, look
at oh, we're gonna circumvent all this. They get they're gonna
have to come and take take my podcasts from my cold dead
fingers. I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna I'm gonna stand in
front of this whole group with my with my AR ah, oh, no, I get
excited by it.
Dave Jones: I get such motivation and intemperate
tempering, from seeing the people in 2.0. That just, they
plug away at it every day. They don't get discouraged. They just
get or they do everybody does sometimes but they they, you
know, the the measure of of character. One measure of
character is you get discouraged, and you get down.
But you still keep doing the thing. You don't stop. You don't
let it overwhelm you. You keep plugging away at the thing that
you you may not even believe in it at the moment. But you know,
you should because that's where the character is. The character
is in believing in a bigger idea believing that something can be
bigger than you are. It's correct. Correct. That is
inspiring.
Adam Curry: So elephant in the room for a moment. There was
over on Stephen B's emporium of apps. The curio? Yes. Well. He
has the he has the telegram. My like a telegram house. I really
don't like Telegram, but I kind of hate it. It's not my favorite
app. But you know. So that's where Steven B has set up his
six different groups that we've talked about his different
products. And after some waiting and some promising wavelengths
came out with their wavelength artists splits.
Dave Jones: Yes. Okay. I want to know your thoughts on this,
because I have thoughts that I think may not may, I think may
be different than yours. Okay.
Adam Curry: So first of all, there's there's a lot of
disappointment, anger, resentment, that, that I was
reading and feeling. Ranging from in well, and you know,
we're going to be talking to those guys soon. So it'd be the
same thing I'd say to him on a call. The thing that one of the
things is, you know, they just ripped off the idea if they kept
kind of like a Spotify vibe, like they ripped off the idea of
splits, but didn't do it in this in a way that's compatible with
what we're doing. And just for context, when we talk about a
value block split, that is something that is published in
the feed for the artist, or podcast, I should just say, in
this case, talking about music. And so you can see what
percentage goes to which which person and that's, that's
important for a number of reasons. One is it is
transparent, which is something I've been very adamant about,
because this is how you circumvent ASCAP BMI and record
labels and shady backroom deals and who gets wad and publishing
and all this stuff, you put all up front, everybody can see it,
then it also enables you to use a distributed systems for
payments. So it doesn't have to be one, one wallet or one
system. So that's kind of our open way of doing things. And
then everyone expected wave lakes artist splits to show up
in the feed. And then it showed up best something behind there.
There, they'll just call it a wall for for lack of a better
term. And it really is still it's going into the wave Lake
bank, and then wave Lake splits it up. There's, you know,
there's some superficial limitations, like you can only
have four, but you can't be you can't really put us as an
artist, you can't put a split in for someone who is non wave
lake. And it felt very music industry ish. Like a label,
basically. And I and I think that they come from that world.
And that's how they're thinking, and that's why they came up with
it. But it was kind of it was a disappointment, because people
thought that they were going to be part of the the open system.
I'm not, I'm not, it was disappointed because I I felt
like when someone says we're going to do splits, this is what
I expected. We got something else. He basically they became
an Aldi, you know, and then so that, you know, you can share
your account with somebody, which is okay, but I don't think
it's long term. I don't think it's great for any type of
podcast, whether it's because they're a podcast host,
basically, their podcasts are short ones, with music and, and
they're, and I think they are very focused on their playout
system on their website. And I believe that doing an app, and I
think it's very limiting for them. Doesn't hurt me that much.
Because there's I think there's enough alternatives that we had
Dobby das who was just set this up for artists with a true path
for artists on RSS blue.com. So people can I think it's good to
have choices. Um, so as usual, Freedom always requires an extra
step. If you want freedom, then you go you then you don't go to
wave Lake.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. I think you hit I think you hit it
appropriately when you said they're a hosting company. They
are. That's what they are. They are a podcast hosting company,
with very short podcast with a very short, very short podcast.
And I think that's really, that's that's the proper context
for this for this discussion. So I had to through sort of initial
reactions. One was, it's understandable that they've that
they've only serve actually, they are a hosting company. And
if you will, Have not seen any hosting companies so far include
wallets include wallets, so they are not just a hosting company
wavelike is, is an as you can imagine they are if rss.com
merged with Albie, that's that's what wavelike is?
Adam Curry: Yes. But it's
Dave Jones: their hosting company that was also version
Adam Curry: zero 0.01.
Dave Jones: Yes, because also do not have nearly the resources of
rss.com or blueberry or Buzzsprout. You know, they don't
have they wavelike is microarray. And now, very, very
recently, one other developer that may be part time, I'm not
sure. And that's very reason I think that's within the last few
weeks. So it really is a one man show, essentially, for the most
part.
Adam Curry: So it was RSS, blue, but they're doing, they're doing
three things. Right. And that, and I think that's the issue. If
you're a hosting company, if you're a podcast hosting
company, you're i Your mission is to get your, your clients
distributed as far and wide as possible. That is the inverse of
what they are doing. Although, after much requests from us,
they are adding, I think automatically now adding feeds
to the index. So that's, you know, so they're succeeding
somewhat on that, I believe they're also they're trying to
be like, like a pod bean, or they're trying to be the, the
distributor, or the publisher and distributor, and the at the
client all at the same time. And I think the, you know, it's hard
to do great hosting, and have a great app with user experience.
And you know, and do all of those things.
Dave Jones: Right, that that's, that's where my comment about
just having one developer, that's where that comes in.
Because I feel it, man. I mean, when you got a day job and a
bunch of different products to manage, you feel like you do a
terrible job at all of it. And I think in the only way that you
manage those expectations for yourself and your product, is by
going slow, and taking time and doing very incremental
improvements over time. And I think that's exactly what
wavelengths doing. I don't, I think I think this is step one
of this process. And they're also trying to, they're also
trying to integrate, we may, we may not like this or understand
this, but they're also trying to integrate with noster on their
back end. And so that they're having they're having their feet
are in two different worlds. There's the fetus URSS, and
nostra both. Yep. So whatever solution they come up with, to
make it work for both, yes. So if that may, that means that
they can, at any one moment, they're going to be writing to,
they're gonna be writing to the, to the pot to the publishing
side, or the money side, or the app or the consumption side. And
it's really hard to do all of those at the same time. So if
you, if you do if you do one, if you do the publishing side, and
get that, get that working in some fashion, in a way that's
easy for the person, perceived easy for their users, for the
artists who are their users to add splits. And then you make
sure that it works, it goes out every it finds functional. Then
you go and now you go step two, and now you can put those make
those things open. You just you can't, it's very difficult to do
all of this all at once.
Adam Curry: It sounds like you know more than we do. I'll be
very honest with you.
Dave Jones: No, that's not true. I don't know anything more. I'm
looking at this purely as a solo developer. And I'm looking at
the amount of stuff that they they are doing, because look at
okay, think about this way. Use the I use the example of rss.com
or bus route. They have many developers. They have many
developers and they're all in there. And they still take weeks
or months to bring out a new feature. Sure. This is one dude,
Adam Curry: I hear you. But they're basically programming.
Okay, I totally understand that develop And they're developing
for to distribute it. Let's go back to the to the to the
basics, this is really a problem of developing for two
distribution mechanisms that have a payment model included in
it. And they are chasing one more than the other, I believe,
or they are trying to set it up. So both work that if you're one
developer, I think that's very, very precarious. I mean, this is
why we, I pushed I pushed very hard, let's, how can we
integrate Nasir, and nothing happened, because the people
over here in the RSS world like now, then and I'm not
interested, you know, I've heard Oscar say he's doing something
but you know, build it, and I'll believe it. This is an when you
have something functioning, then. I mean, it's just it's
your point is incredibly well made. But what happened is that
a lot of people were pushing and helping and very excited about
wave Lake, and they felt like they got sold a bill of goods,
because their splits is not what they were expecting. And you
that broke something not in me, per se, but it broke something.
There was a there was a community breakage.
Dave Jones: I know, I know that. I know, this bizarre and people
are gonna be mad at me for for defending this and, but it's
just I can I can look at it and know that I put myself in their,
in their shoes. And I can see myself as Michael and trying to
manage the rollout of features that you that you need, you need
them to work and you need them to be easy. And you're also
trying to do all these things at once. The thing that the only
way to its self defense as a programmer, self defense as a
programmer is incremental, small changes that you know, that you
can be confident in. So when so
Adam Curry: Waveland was was this incremental?
Dave Jones: This is very incremental, because wavelike it
imagine, okay, look at the complexity of what albies doing.
Now B we can say is, is, quote unquote, open. You can they have
put like sort of public wallets, okay? That's the only thing they
do. Imagine if Albie then decided to start hosting music.
Now, all of that extra complexity goes into becoming
now they're going to become a podcast host. All of a sudden,
Bhumi over there is pulling his hair out. And he's got to make
decisions on a daily basis about where to put his where to put
his effort. And when you make those decisions, you have to do
it in a way that you are confident in the thing you're
doing. Like you have, you can't just that we run with scissors
here, you know, and we're winging stuff all the time. But
value
Adam Curry: value blocking an RSS feed is, is defined, it's
not it's not risk a
Dave Jones: but wavelength doesn't the wavelength doesn't
Host Open wallets, you have to have an account. So that's what
I'm saying. When you have an account as a creator, you that's
where they're starting. The next the next step, once they've
gotten to that, um, when we talk to them this week, we're gonna
have a call with them. I guarantee you, they're gonna say
yes, that's on the roadmap, because that's the way this
works. You you do the thing that you do the thing you're
confident in first, then you add the extra thing on to that,
like, so. That that was sort of one line of thinking. And then,
okay,
Adam Curry: I'm with, I'm with you on this. Okay, it does not
feel that way. If you're, you're approaching this from a one
developer standpoint, which either you know, that's true, or
you just feel it that way. Doesn't really matter. If a
hosting company had done this, we would have been like, what
are you doing?
Dave Jones: I just want to make sure there's not a double
standard because like if, if ban it, let's say Bandcamp tomorrow,
said that they're gonna start doing RSS feeds for all their
for all their music, then that's all they said. They weren't
gonna they're not going to do they're not doing value. Don't
do anything like, Oh, they're gonna use RSS feeds. We would be
like, yes. Rock on. But they didn't go all the way with it.
They only went part they only went step one, but we would be
excited. And I'm saying that.
Adam Curry: You're okay. The double standard is calling it
splits. saying we're gonna do splits, yep, splits are coming.
If that's not true, these are not splits in our vocabulary
that we're saying we're going to do. You don't have to tell me
your strategy or your or your roadmap, although everyone else
does. It just didn't, you know, just it's not a double standard
if you want to play with us play with us. And if you say, Hey,
we're going to do artists splits first and then, but the X, the
expectation was, we're going to do splits. And that is what we
have here is a failure to communicate.
Dave Jones: I think my I think Michael and Sam have been, they
have clearly told us who they are from day one. They are
people that care, first and foremost, about the
presentation, and the quality of the product experience. They
clear I mean, to such a degree that they did not even some auto
submit feeds to the index, because they were afraid it
would be messy. So this is great. This is app they are they
are the I don't I mean, this is a I don't mean this is not
derogatory. They are the apple of podcasting. 2.0 is they're
going to take a long time to do something so that they can get
it exactly the way that they want it.
Adam Curry: Yeah. But if you're the apple, you don't also
develop for Android, you know, this, I can we can take the
analogy, because they're doing that they're developing for
Android, which is noster. From my perspective, and again, I
want them to succeed. Wavelength took off when we started sending
when we start including songs and podcast. Anyone who tells me
differently is full of crap. But I agree with Nick and to be very
specific, Dred Scott. All right. That's why it's that's why
Ainsley Costello took off is because Dred Scott was boosting
a million SATs during podcasting. 2.0 then booster
Graham ball, now things are popping. And, and that's what
got the action going. So everyone was excited. And this
doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like they're, they're
sharing the excitement. It feels like, Hey, we're great. And this
is all us. And we're going to have an app and no other only
our artists are in this app. It's the opposite of the open
nature of our group. So it doesn't feel genuine. When
you're expecting something called splits. And it doesn't
show up, it splits EB EB. So now we're in an in a, in a situation
where we have musicians and artists are very excited. And
they're and if, for me, personally, when I say this is
going to remove all of these antiquated music industry
institutions, because we have this contract, which is
transparent, and you can see it, this is not that I was expecting
that. Because we have that we're, we're going on that
presumption. So when when that shows up, and it's an it's an it
feels like old the old world, like Well, no, we're not really
going to do that. Yes, you're right, it feels like something
Apple would do precisely.
Dave Jones: That, you know, I'm not gonna say I have no
irritation about it, because you know, like that the very top of
their announcement is talking about zaps and noster. When when
we know that, that it's podcasting in it that is driving
revenue across the board on music, right now that do things
like that do irritate me, but I'm putting, I'm trying to set
that aside because it like an understand. So here's what I'm
reading directly from their article. It says in order to
ensure payments are made consistently. splits are
currently limited to four participants, all of which must
be a registered wavelike user. However, we have plans to expand
these options in the future in future updates to accommodate a
broader range of participants. This, I think they just exactly
said what I'm what I'm saying. They are they did this. Here's
let me bring in the other part of this because I think this is
important. We, we've been bothered for a while because the
ecosystem is essentially Alby and fountain LLN pay has largely
gone away from the ecosystem, although we still run a node. So
we have, we have two participants. You could say most
of us, so you know, we only have two legs here. We really need a
third leg. to prop these things up, lb is doing most of the
heavy lifting. But But fountain is also large to having a third
wallet provider is, to me is a big deal. And I, they are the
third wallet provider. They that to me cannot be overlooked that
they are doing a huge service by just hosting wallets, which is
something that's critically important and not a trivial and
not a trivial thing to do.
Adam Curry: Maybe I'm misunderstanding I thought
Zebedee was their wallet provider.
Dave Jones: It I don't know who their wallet provider is on the
back end, but I believe is okay, it might be that. But what I'm
saying is like they just they're here's another here's another
destination I nobody's ever been clear to me who's their
providers of what?
Adam Curry: Well, if you look at Zebedee is marketing materials,
Zebedee, basically invented fountain and wavelike.
Dave Jones: Now, which is not true, but okay, I'm just saying,
yeah, yeah, right. Right. So that's what I'm trying to say
here is there's they have, to me that says, I'll just read that
paragraph, I just read from their from their thing says,
this is a this, it says, literally, to ensure payments
are made consistently, that that is language that I read. And
that tells me I, as the developer, am worried about
failed payments, and things, which we then have to explain to
our artists and try to make sense out of this stuff. And I
can't deal with that right now. I just want to get the feature
built first, with the UI, and with all this stuff, and I do
not have the bandwidth mentally to handle payment failures and
all those kinds of things now, I will do that later. Okay.
Adam Curry: I hear you. I hear Yeah.
Dave Jones: That's that's the way it feels to me open splits
are. They're critical. They're absolutely critical. In but but
every step in the process, like like, like blueberry, blueberry,
and rss.com, they both have the ability to put your wallets in
there. Well, they don't. They may in the future, you know,
okay. Well,
Adam Curry: I'm just looking at, you know, Zebedee fountain
podcasts, almost doubled their user base after Zebedee launch.
Really, I'm so glad that was because of the wallet. It's
great. Yeah, this fee feels icky. That's all just feels
icky. You know, Zebedee should be playing in the space with us.
Like Albie is my personal opinion. But they're not because
they have a different model. Their model is you pay us to use
us and no one has the money for that. And Ron,
Dave Jones: is also VC involved in all this. And I mean,
Adam Curry: this is my fear. This is my ultimate fear. Right?
Because that that makes people make certain choices that
sometimes aren't necessarily good. But I'll go with you on on
this. But other people are further ahead. And and I have a
vision in my head for what value for value, by the way is there
but he has value for value all over their website. never talked
to these guys ever. But I like to say there's tell him that
telling me what value for value is. My vision, my personal
vision, not not Adam and Dave's are podcasts and 2.0. My
personal vision is music in podcast and the wallet switching
technology which all of a sudden people made happen. And I could
not be happier. Now as a part of that vision is this open
contract. So I will be advising people to go the open contract
route. Because and when WaveLight comes on board, then
then I'll include them again. But right now that hey, if you
will just want to get it up down and dirty. And you want to want
to see how it works. This is a great place to go. That is it's
always if you want freedom, it's always one extra step. That
means you're going to have to figure out RSS blue.com or music
side project.com You know, there's all kinds of all kinds
of places you can stumble and fall. So making it easy is one
thing, but for me for what we're doing, it didn't actually feel
great. It felt like oh, okay, that's kind of, you know, kind
of the world that I'm trying to move away from.
Dave Jones: I was disappointed to I don't I don't want to act
like I wasn't. I mean, I was disappointed. For sure to see Do
that need to see that I could not upload my music and then put
in then put a separate wall you know, and then put somebody
who's not a wavelike user in the split. I mean, this is like, I
mean, here's the critical here's the critical from Dave part.
This is lightning this is supposed to be open lightning
wallets are supposed to be reachable from anywhere but that
the whole spirit of lightning is paying invoices, you know,
receiving sets through keys and it's it's open mon is open
borders money and these are borders and so that doesn't feel
good to me. But you know if that is that's how i That's how I
felt in my heart. But then my head was like, when I read that
thing that said we have plans to expand these options the future
in that can I just feel like I understand why it wasn't that
way right now and and I'm trying to if if two years from now it's
still this way well then you know, I was wrong in that and
this wasn't cool. But you know if if six months from now they
they they expand this then I think it was okay to wait for
that.
Adam Curry: Zebedee is noted that it's apps new featured here
I'll just type this is where it comes from. Zebedee announces
alpha for new social layer powered by noster. Okay, so so
this is their wallet provider is focused on noster
Dave Jones: it because it's Bitcoin because it's the Bitcoin
Maxy bursts. Yeah. But
Adam Curry: he noted that it's apps new features have attracted
partnerships with prominent industry players, such as from
games, wave Lake, fountain and gesso. So, so they're not,
they're not a wallet provider. They wavelike is using a wallet
provider. I would love to have Zebedee in the 2.0 crowd.
There'll be fantastic. Can you imagine?
Dave Jones: Yeah, sure, but they won't because they're, they're
infatuated with Bitcoin bro culture?
Adam Curry: Yes. Yes.
Dave Jones: And that doesn't do anybody any. It doesn't do
anybody any service.
Adam Curry: I need to get you out of here. Because it's 10
past two. And I want to I want to be respectful of your time.
This is what you say in the meeting. Everybody, I want to be
respectful of Dave's time. So if you want to, I mean, we can do
we can do booster grams and thank yous, we can do that on
next show if that's easier, because now I
Dave Jones: know, it's not a heart out. It's a firm. So I'm a
little squishy.
Adam Curry: Alright, so the good news is we'll be talking with
with Sam, and who else will be on the call? Michael Michael.
Right. Yeah, we'll be talking to them this this coming week. So
I'm very excited to have something to report. And we'll
and we'll get some true information. If anything, this
is just this is the worst part of any organization is
communication. Yeah, that that is the I've been and I've failed
at that. So many times in my own companies, you don't communicate
and people don't understand. So if, if this was an incremental
move, then it just was interpreted differently. And it
was communication was not good. Because when you say we're doing
splits, and it's and something else shows up, the then that's
just how it works. That's how communications work. Like I love
you well didn't really mean like, I love you, because like,
I want to have sex with you. Not the same thing.
Dave Jones: I just meant, I just meant I could go for some ice
cream.
Adam Curry: That's exactly it. So value for value podcast, true
value for value, which this you know, we don't have VCs here,
what we have is people who support the project who support
what we're doing, who support the node. We open up channels
and liquidity to anybody who needs it. Don't be bashful. Just
hit me up a note on the podcast index dot social or, or email me
or whatever. We're happy to open channels to you. We got a lot of
them. This is where all the Satoshis go to. But we have
servers we have, we have infrastructure. And all we ask
for is that if if this is of any value to you one way or the
other that you send that back, I heard something really
beautiful. At the wasn't my voice. Yeah, that was very
beautiful. When I hear this, I did I did a speech at the Rotary
Club. What Yes, yeah. And was one of the hey, I want to be
mayor here one day, you know, so everywhere in the round, that
asked me many months ago, so the Rotary Club, which is if you
don't know, I mean, it's usually old people, but there's some
younger people, but they do a lot with basically value for
value. People supporting organizations. Blow local, all
locally based. And this one lady who's in charge of volunteer,
she said something which to me was like, perfect value for
value. She said, You know, she was asking people to like bake
pies or whatever she says, May you just may you never be some
become so poor, that you can't share your riches. Because
that's truly time, talent and treasure. You know, so May you
never become so poor of spirit and of heart that you can't
share your riches in what you do to support this and it just and
it felt so good for me. I'm turning you into a bumper
sticker.
Dave Jones: That's your campaign.
Adam Curry: That's me, baby. All right, so we want to thank some
people. Who do we have? Oh, anyone? Let me let me thank some
people who've been boosting. During the show. We got quite a
few here on the homeless second. Mike Newman 7777 enjoyed your
keynote Adam similar to Dave's impression I heard humility
gratitude and a sense of we're just getting started here.
Scaling is always the next stage love and go podcasting. Sir
Brian of London 1948 hive wallets behind V four v dot apre
also hosted but uniquely the keys are not held by me. I also
I will also offer a set native wallet option the future no VC
money. It's this is no VC money. Yes, Dred Scott 123456 Dred
Scott You are killing me brother
Unknown: Bala. Sakala 20 is blades on am Paula.
Adam Curry: Hi guys. Appreciate all you do. Sorry. If my big
booths of angels music cause any of these issues? Yes, it is your
fault. Dread curse yo, it's all your fault. That's funny. There
Sam Sethi one set. Pod fans payment says it right there. It
came through 30 minutes ago. It's a SAM Sethi baller boost.
Dave Jones: Micro says
Adam Curry: it's coming through it's coming through Sam, we've
received your signal. Then we have Hey, citizens 6960 And I
boosted a little prayer but forgot to change my name back
from earlier I was masquerading as comics trip lager which is
here it is This is so I thought this is Chrome. I'm glad you
told me hey citizen because I thought this was from comic
strip blogger. Oh, interesting. I just see you if you mouse over
the Satoshi amount. It shows you what your Oh my goodness. This
is so good. Eric TP I'm sorry. I'm just obsessed with this
beautiful interface. He says here's a prayer. Dear God, thank
you for the index. Bless all the podcasters and musicians and
continue to deliver us from evil. We are grateful for your
app developers who give us this day our daily source code.
Please continue to guide them so they may lead us to your
eternally heavenly feed at the supper of the of the mighty one.
Amen. Amen. Sir Brian against buying blood and 31,948 a super
Israeli freedom boost must admit we had a bit of blow in court
last week. A bit of a blow in court last week during the
board. He says he says a bit of blow he forgot the a must.
That's why that didn't go well. Yeah, you were doing blow in
court. We will continue to fight with a new case. Good man. Don't
give up. Don't give up if you're right. Todd Cochran, to
Dave Jones: you Brian. We need you. endowment really.
Adam Curry: 10,000 SATs from Todd Cochran. Oh my listeners
want fountain to start supporting live videos seeing
you're doing tech support for fountain. Hey, Oscar. There you
go. And 100,000 SATs from Todd Cochran. Asking you shall
receive we are working on adding more 2.0 features go podcasting?
FYI, I'm not grumpy yet.
Dave Jones: That means it's not ready to ship.
Adam Curry: Yeah, we know blueberry is doing a great job.
Fantastic job. And, and yeah, that's what I have. That's what
I have.
Dave Jones: Well, I've got a Pay Pal from Oscar Oscar Mary, also
known as Mary Oscar $200.
Adam Curry: Oh, thank you. Thank you, Oscar. Appreciate that.
Brother.
Dave Jones: Thank you for keeping the focus on RSS. Oscar.
Yes.
Adam Curry: Thank you very much. We know we know how hard it is.
We know how hard it is.
Dave Jones: It's a hard world to navigate. Thomas goose DOT says
it gave us $25. And he sizes daily. What daily wire is an
example of a company that has profitably monetized the
network. But they don't do it with ads. Yes, they run ads, but
they have their own form of V for V called Daily wire plus,
most of their value comes directly from listeners. I don't
know anything about daily wire plus. Yeah, daily? Well,
Adam Curry: I don't when I say you can't monetize the network.
I'm specifically talking about advertising, really. And they're
closed network. I do not believe all of their podcasts are open.
So it's a club. It's like the blaze. I mean, that's to me.
That's not monetizing the network as in the open network.
Dave Jones: The reason you can't monetize the network and an
AdSense is because there's no there's no artificial scarcity
of space.
Adam Curry: Correct? Correct me And I know they they put stuff
out there with ads. But yeah, they do. Huge if they had, if
you have a million people sending you 10 bucks a month,
you're doing great, but that's not monetizing the network.
Dave Jones: You're doing great. You also have to register in
Canada. But
Adam Curry: don't worry, don't worry, everyone comes value for
value eventually, it'll all happen.
Dave Jones: Mere Mortals podcast chyron. Over there. As soon as
20 to 22 Row ducks at the fountain he says, in the Ellen
beats app, I clicked the option to boost a certain amount after
the end of every song. This counts toward the top 100 plus
change. Right? Yes. So when I listened to his top 100 tab on
there, am I just reinforcing the top 100 order? Not necessarily a
problem? Just curious. The order? I guess, because because
he's pulling his order from us. And so if you just run through
the list or you just read, reinforcing
Adam Curry: recursion.
Dave Jones: The answer is this will all break.
Adam Curry: That's a good question. Actually. I'm gonna be
on the value for value podcast. Coming up this week, I think,
Oh, you're great. Yeah, I caught them live the other day. I
boosted them live. It was fun.
Dave Jones: Like what time does he go live? I have a feeling
it's like it's a n
Adam Curry: a. m, it was 10am Australia time and it was in the
evening? Yes, the day before here. So it was 8pm Yesterday,
when I was doing I was sitting by the pool in the garden. You
know, the sun was going down this trickling of the water and
I'm listening to him this morning in Australia, boosting
him I'm sending notes through booster grams. It was almost a
transcendent experience because it was live and and then he read
my booster gram and I am 59 years old. I've been in
broadcasting all my life. And I still get excited by stuff like
that. It's like Oh, Mr. Graham.
Dave Jones: Mere Mortals podcast again 1548 To do pod fans this
time. The action here is booster Graham. So that's that's the
issue. So that the action verb here is booster Graham where it
should be boost. Fixed. That is from September 30. So that may
have been fixed. I don't know. But as of this boost is not
testing out the new pod fans PWA on my mobile, what are you
laughing?
Adam Curry: I'm just laughing that we get one set from pod
fans.
Unknown: They just love it. It's funny.
Adam Curry: I'm not sure why but
Dave Jones: it's pretty slick and worked well right out of the
box would recommend giving it a try to everyone listening.
Alright, so it gets some pod fans love. There's Mary Oscar.
He says Oh 10,000 10,000 SATs, the fountain. Of course. He
says, Adam, Dave, could we get an API for the top 100? Well,
there's not an API for it, Oscar, but it's the URLs right
there. So there's a little JSON at the top, there's a little
icon on the top 100 chart. So icon for JSON, just follow that
JSON. Yeah, and it updates every time the chart does. Yeah, you
don't need a you don't need an API.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's much easier than an API or does that
add complexity? So we have to now parse and do something with
it. No, it's
Dave Jones: It's easier and it smells better.
Adam Curry: Smells? smells real. Strawberries really?
Dave Jones: Oh yes. Bed Bath and Beyond. Cast VLAN 3693 found a
nice a streaming SATs with an empty wallet does not work. So
at last moment boost this time. Oh, thank you, Cass.
Adam Curry: So you're saying scrape my JSON is that we're
basically the message
Dave Jones: t shirt. Scrape by Debbie mash. Or Debbie Nash 3333
through fountain he says raising a glass to CSB and his trance
music. He's got the Polish flag and a beer there. Nice. Good.
Good emoji work. Jean been 20 to 20 tends to cast Matic. He says
I feel like if it's a top 100 chart, it shouldn't be 100
songs. Not more, not less. Well, we fix
Adam Curry: that problem is let's see if it's still a Top
100 Top 166 Where are we at right now? Whoa, ladies and
gentlemen, the chart has changed. We're now top 151
Dave Jones: We're going the wrong direction.
Adam Curry: That's great. That's great. I love it podcast. This
is the best fix of all time Dave.
Unknown: Fix of all time.
Dave Jones: All the C 1701 Star Trek boosts his top 100 Plus.
Thank you so stay Yogananda another 1701 books he says the
podcast index.org is the reference implementation. Oh, I
like that
Adam Curry: 1701 That's is that well how does that How is that a
reference number
Dave Jones: that says no no, no, he says the podcast index.org
Oh, oh further people? Yes. Yeah, roll their
Adam Curry: own. Yeah, exactly what we are
Dave Jones: 7777 striper boost from spam proof. He said As he
or she says Hillsong owns most Christian evangelical music
being played in mega churches today. Elevation worship is big
too. But historic liturgical hymns is not owned in that way
issues, etc. is a podcast that frequently does music using
hymnal songs and weekly chapel service recordings without any
copyright worries. I assume they should they should set up set
themselves you
Adam Curry: know, shred word, you know shred word. Yeah. So
shred word. He just sent me a track. It's on LM beats. Psalm
54. He and his wife then now they're doing songs, and then
they're making up the music. And then they're singing the song
for literally from Psalm 54 If you said that was from
elevation, you know, worship I would have believed it. It's so
good. It's like mind
Dave Jones: blowing that's that's an index.
Adam Curry: Yes in the AI but he is his value blah his splits are
wrong. He needs to put a split in for God I think it's for the
word. King David King David split.
Dave Jones: Yeah, for publishing rights.
Adam Curry: Can I just I'm sorry to interrupt with just one thing
about the heli so I thought people were putting these in
themselves when they send like in like a row of docs like Oh,
that's cute. They put in a couple of ducks. No, no no. heli
pad does that by itself.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's one of the things Eric pap did I didn't
Adam Curry: realize that was automatic because I'm seeing
these the satchel of Richards I'm seeing the the eggplant
emojis. I thought people were putting that in the in the
boosted gram, but that's good. Man Herrick. PPU slay me,
brother. That is.
Dave Jones: Yeah, he's he's really picked up the torch and
run with Hello, Pat. And I just thought of it about once a week
he drops a merge request pull request, and I just merge and
I'm like, yes, yes. Yes. Yes. So good.
Adam Curry: That's so good.
Dave Jones: Bring it. Ainsley Costello. Oh, 500 said hello,
Adam Curry: Ainsley. Thank you.
Dave Jones: What up girl?
Adam Curry: What is this Dave Jones. That's a side of you. I
haven't heard before.
Dave Jones: I would love to see a chart for all the new podcasts
music shows. Thank you, Adam and Dave, for all you're doing to
make this new music world a reality lightning emoji?
Adam Curry: Well, that'll be that'll be part of the cross
referencing system that'll show up. Somehow we'll we'll be able
to find that automatically. Or even if someone played to play
the song, not necessarily a podcast music show. But for now,
LM beats has a pretty good list.
Dave Jones: spit and polish does not slow us down at all. We just
roll stuff out there. So we will. We will make that we will
we'll be having something going forward. 100% 100% Becker advice
Chad 6969 through fountain. He says board meeting 147 felt a
bit obligatory and frankly, fell under the category of quote
meeting that could have been an email unquote Wow. realist.
Well, that's hard. Yeah. Read listened to 146 twice because I
picked out a few exit strategies from it. Anyone with any
aspiration to be someone in the podcasting 2.0 ecosystem should
listen to the episode at least a few times. Also spicy pod sage
never gets old. I might have to train an AI on days voice and
have it recite the Christmas vacation. Bonus rant. It's
funny. Well, that he he complimented us and roasted us
the same
Adam Curry: time. Yeah, it's it's a talent when you do it and
it's Bert stung a little bit.
Dave Jones: Thank you. Thank you. Slack careered.
Adam Curry: No, please.
Dave Jones: Becker advice Chad fallin up 1616 91 He says laugh
out loud listening today's day wished gunnery on people never
get old literally in the tough moments of podcasting to put it
on auto replacements as the only episode. Gene being 20 to 22 to
cast Maddix is Dave, when you were talking about categories
and mediums and how they work together to describe what a show
actually is. It dawned on me that the podcast in 2.0 spec
isn't just an XML specification, it seems to becoming a full
blown domain specific language, AKA a DSL and I think that's
amazing.
Adam Curry: Oh, is the DSL interesting? DSL, domain
specific language that sounds like something pretty meta,
like, you know, like kernel like the kernel of Linux, DSL.
Dave Jones: And now I have to look at domain domain specific
language. The slide and a specific country programming
language with a higher level of abstraction optimized for a
specific class of problems. Wow. DSL uses the concepts and rules
from the field or the domain. Whoa, yikes.
Adam Curry: Whatever it is, sounds like a big
responsibility. Dave That's on you.
Dave Jones: That's dropping the ball. Macintosh 2100 SAS the
founder says thanks for your leadership gentlemen, Macintosh
Well You're welcome. Anonymous podcast guru user send us a
satchel Richard 1111 This must be Jason. He says, testing out
some new podcasts guru goodness there's an app explosion going
on I
Adam Curry: pop props for podcast guru notifications.
These things are fast, little known.
Dave Jones: Little known. fact that podcast Guru is one of the
few apps that does video. Um, so if anybody's you know a big
video user, please check it out. Oh, we got Comstor blogger got
301 limiter loader. Here we go. How do you Dave and Adam. Today,
I recommend embarking on a whimsical journey with Jean and
Ben in the just too good old boys podcast, both from Texas,
both avid and experienced international travelers,
transitioning from political satire to biblical banter and
peppered with a touch of tech troubles. They offer a mixture
of hearty last and thought provoking discussions discover
their podcast at WWW dot just two good old boys.com Yo CSB. Yo
guess monthly got Scott Jobert $12 Chad Pharaoh $20.20 Cameron
Rose $25 pod page Brendan over there. $25 Thank you Brendan.
Mark, gram. $1 Joseph maraca $5 and Emilio Kendall Molina. $4
Adam Curry: Wow, thank you very much. Sorry, we didn't play a
song today. Oh, you want to watch so we just leave with a
song so that you're okay. I chose this song because now you
know, let's not play song. Let's just not play it. What No, no,
no, no, it's the wrong song. No, I've this will be stricken from
the record.
Dave Jones: I feel like I got rug pulled What did you have
queued up
Adam Curry: Bobby shell.
Dave Jones: Was that the wrong song? Well, I this this feels
feels like tooling problems.
Adam Curry: Can we get Can I just let's let's just not play
song but you gotta go. It's, it's 152 this one it would be
too polarizing for too many people if I played that song.
Okay, that's how powerful this song is. It's so powerful. That
if I played that song people it'd be it'd be too polarizing.
I don't we may not the people might drop dead in the
boardroom.
Dave Jones: Okay, you're gonna have to go back and edit all
this out.
Adam Curry: No, I'm leaving all of this in so people will go and
listen to that song. Okay, I'll play it. The reason why it's
Polaroid. I liked this song because I like it when you have
a new. New a new like, hip hop when hip hop first started.
People be talking about the radio stations that were that
were playing the songs they'd be talking about the DJs they'd be
talking about the mix tapers, you know, very cultural. So
Bobby Schell who I like a lot. He did this new track beefsteak
and Trad wives which is totally up my alley. I love it. And in
it. He's singing about value for value. Except what he says is
I'm just getting my 99% on wave Lake. Okay, now I have to play
it. Everybody can hear
Dave Jones: it. Yes, this is a must. This is a must play now.
It's definitely
Adam Curry: a must play brother. I'm sorry. We kept you so long.
You gotta you gotta get out of here. You gotta get out. You get
BM save those accountants.
Dave Jones: I was still firm.
Adam Curry: All right, everybody. Thank you so much.
This was the podcast in 2.0 board meeting. We will be back
next week, same time. With a lot more to discuss. We hope to see
you here until then. Adios.
Unknown: Thank you, everyone for being here tonight. To close out
the evening. We have Bobby Schell. He's going to be
performing a originals. And I think it's gonna be very
tasteful for the crowd that
we have here. We heard some of you are based. You have
traditional families, and you believe in sovereignty. So
everyone who's on the fringes and not for that. You might be
one of the clown world people So Bobby, take it away. Wake up in
the morning salt and pepper. ribeye cook. That's the life
that I live in the city traffic outskirts where I sit grocery
store in about a shopping Farmer's Market I'm living
based. I'm based in raw sauce no poison, I'm tasting home grown,
ribs blazing speaking truth on the peak got the whole world
pray. Yes. Bring back the good life. Why these politicians
losing their act right? wife and two kids is quite nice. Life is
so great when you get yourself a Trad wife Yes Lord, I got the
good life. Let these politicians know they better act right wife
and two kids sitting quite nice. Life is so great when you got
yourself a Trad wife what up freaks to b2b state supercharged
with the flow of gas and no breaks I live at this pace I
thrive in the face of many challenges slip your hands and
pray bring back the good life why these politicians losing
their act right wife and two kids sitting quite nice like the
so great when you get yourself a Trad wife. Yes, Lord, I got the
good life. Let these politicians know they better aggravate wife
and two kids sitting quite nice. Life is so great when you got
yourself a Trad wife don't forget the first thing before
breakfast 123 Gotta get a bench press never skip a leg day now a
little princess I don't cut corners for my son's I've never
been brick. Oh my gosh is that the stat slinger earning 99% on
wavelength the cash bringing in cash is trash and I'm the
beekeeper the SIBO Hornets are loud enough to be libre wake up
in the morning salt and pepper my eggs I got my ribeye cooked
that's the life that I live I hate the city traffic outskirts
where I sit grocery store in about a shop and farmers market
based I'm based in raw sauce no poison I'm tasted homegrown risk
blazing speaking truth on the beat got the whole world Bragin
what up freaks the b2b state supercharged with the flow while
gas and low brakes I live at this pace I thrive in the face
of many challenges slip your hands and pray bring back the
good life. Why these politicians losing their act right? wife and
two kids sitting quite nice. Like so great when you get
yourself a Trad wife. Yes, Lord, I got the good life. Let these
politicians know they better aggravate wife and two kids
sitting quite nice diapers so great when you got yourself a
Trad wife
you hope you have been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit
podcast in this dashboard for more information. I mean, right