Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for October 13 2023, episode 150 and
Unification everybody Welcome once again to podcasting 2.0
This is where it all goes down. It is the official board meeting
of podcasting 2.0 the future the president than now we're
podcasting. And of course we are the only boardroom that meets on
Friday the 13th I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas
Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who kills roosters, with his
bare hands, say hello to my friend on the other end of the
ladies and gentlemen, the only Mr. Dave Jones.
Dave Jones: Spencer said The wait is
Adam Curry: over. Hello, hello. Hello, hello. Hey, Dave, how you
doing, brother? How you doing?
Dave Jones: I'm good. I'm reading the mute button little
bit as partaking my beef milkshake.
Adam Curry: Oh, oh, are you? You have a quick quick turnaround
today. You still have a lot of work at the day job, I guess.
Right?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. But I'm good. I'm good. Okay, I'm
hanging in there. I will be a much happier person next week,
though.
Adam Curry: So Well, I actually I'm a happier person now because
I did my taxes. Wednesday. I'm a late file I pay in April, but I
file I'm a late filer.
Dave Jones: I like how you like how you just classify yourself
as that I'm a I'm a late filing late filer. Just a heads up?
Yeah. Everybody at accounting firms hate you.
Adam Curry: But that's why I don't use an accounting firm. I
guess I do it myself.
Dave Jones: Okay. You just hate yourself? No.
Adam Curry: Well, I don't know. And I have to say, Well, the
problem is I have to wait on other stuff. I have to wait on
other people. And you know, because other K ones that come
in from my wife and just all kinds of stuff. So they never no
one ever gets it on time. Which is why I understand why
accounting firms hate people who do that. But I'm a TurboTax guy.
I love it. I love sitting there and it gives that little
counter. It says you owe $5 million. Okay, hold on a second.
Let me see what can I deduct here? Then it goes. Good. It
goes down. Okay. Well, let me see. But there must be something
else. And then it pops up a little dialog. Hey, we can get
you more deductions. Yes, yes. Yes. Click Click. What can you
get me? There might veteran? Can I can I claim myself as a
parent? No, I guess not. Not today? Am I a victim of
hurricanes?
Dave Jones: My favorite part of TurboTax is the thing at the
very end. That's like the audit protection scam. Oh, yeah. No,
I'm
Adam Curry: all in on the audit protections.
Dave Jones: It's like, do you be Be careful, you be careful, you
may get audited. So you probably want to buy our audit protection
service. Well, like,
Adam Curry: let me break. Let me tell you. I have always
purchased the I think they might it was $40. Now it's $60 audit
protection scam. And the end of one year I got audited, which
was nine years ago. Um, do believe me? I was very happy
ahead. So what did they do for you? They give you a lawyer.
Dave Jones: I had to give you one. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So I had a full time lawyer. I could call them all
the time he he came out actually to meet with me and the and the
and the IRS agent. Oh, yeah.
Dave Jones: I thought you're just saying he came out a little
odd relationship with a tax lawyer?
Adam Curry: I it's not, you know, it's I mean, I understand
the scary meter that says, Oh, you have a very high chance of
getting audited? Well, I have that regardless, because I am
self employed. I have k ones. I have a seat schedule. See?
Dave Jones: Oh, you're just begging for it. On paper, you're
just they have a target with your face on it. And the IRS.
All
Adam Curry: right, well, every 10 years is when it's my turn.
And it was a that was 2015. And it really, really sucks. But I
mean, I'm just happy. I didn't have to pay in it. I've had 20
years ago, when the IRS showed up in my business with their
guns, literally with guns. We've been looking for you.
Dave Jones: We depend a lot of a lot of people don't know that.
If you're an American citizen. Yes, leave the country for some
amount of time, let's say yours. You can't you don't just stop
paying taxes. You're supposed to keep writing a check what No,
you don't they will find
Adam Curry: you have to file you don't have to you don't have to
write a check. You have to file file. Yes. And my. And my
accountants had not filed even though they knew exactly what
they should have been doing. And this is when I had a lot of
money back in the day. And so then I come in after you know,
after not living in in the States for like 10 years and
they Hey, and I start showing up on payroll. Man, they put me
through the wringer. And that cost me $40,000 In lawyers fees.
Ouch. You know, accountants and lawyers. So I was very happy
with it with my $40 lawyer. I mean, I wouldn't say he was a an
attack dog by any means. But at least he could he I channeled
the communication between me and the IRS. So this is more like
Dave Jones: the court appointed lawyer that you get when you're
trying to you know,
Adam Curry: step above that a little step above it, but yeah,
whatever. I have
Dave Jones: many accountants in my life, it's somehow my family
and my day job and everything is just dominated by accountants
and accounting. And I will I will say that I predict that you
will not be in the next decade, you will not be audited again.
Oh, really? I just think they're they are they the IRS is so hard
up for people to work. I don't I think all of the all of the
audits are going to be all the in person audits and everything.
They're all going to be just, they're just going to be a
thing, a thing of the past mostly everything. They're going
to try to claim their get their money back through take, like
technical needs, you know, closing loopholes in regulations
and stuff. They're just they just known that people will not
cannot hire enough and I understand that. But they
Adam Curry: they have literally said they're going after LLCs
partnerships.
Dave Jones: That that is going to be Yeah, I think there's it's
all going to be automated. Where where you're gonna have if an
LLC is a member of another LLC, be a trigger.
Adam Curry: I see. Yeah. And that should be a trigger, quite
honestly.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Because you're gonna have things like they're
going after stuff like the environmental easement, scams
and
Adam Curry: yeah, in the end the paycheck protection program.
Yeah, if
Dave Jones: you have an LLC that has more than more than 100
members, yeah, just stuff like that. Yeah. Yep.
Adam Curry: Um, I had I had some I had some Oh, wow. Moments this
past week. Some some big some big Oh, wow. Moments. Well, good
about Yeah, exactly. That I went Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. And it
had it started on Tuesday by I was 2000 miles over due for my
10,000 mile car thing. The first big service
Dave Jones: Adam curry,
Adam Curry: which I financed actually, I find the answer
right into into my into my loan. But the car was very mad at me.
Yeah, it was like, shall we call for an appointment? I can call
for you right now. lights flashing on and off, you know,
dashboard lit up like 181 Yeah, all these TV. Oh, yeah. All
kinds of warnings. Oh, man. You probably your car's gonna spin
out of control. You're gonna die if you don't get this thing in.
Oh, yeah. So that means I had to go to Austin. And I also be I
went to my hairdresser because I had the same one in Austin. I
know we've been friends for 12 years I just love her and she
always has the latest Austin gossip for me which is usually
off the hook and great no agenda show material. So I had to you
know, I started off I'm listening to I'm listening to a
sermon from some pasture and then I'm like yeah, I'm getting
into I was listening to beautiful outlaw audio book I
just love that time alone in the car with this just nobody is can
distract me or anything the car almost drives itself you know
it'd be got to keep your hands on it's not it by the way. It's
not an electric vehicle. But all cars kind of have a co pilot
thing these days
Dave Jones: my car my truck drives itself if you're going
downhill your
Adam Curry: work. Yeah. Your cars the only your truck will be
the only thing left on the road after the Armageddon everything
else will just stop and that's actually hard part of the part
of my big oh wow moment.
Dave Jones: And I was roaches, Velveeta cheese and muttrah
those are the three things that will exist after the fact
guarantee and people
Adam Curry: your truck will actually drive on Velveeta
cheese when it
Dave Jones: is convertible. Yeah. Is
Adam Curry: it diesel? No. Oh, man, that's too bad. Because you
could melt cheese and it would and it would drive on that
Dave Jones: but it could it can't we can go with gas in a
pinch. You know?
Adam Curry: gasifiers baby. They're the future
Dave Jones: from trailer trailer mounted would would be it's
called the gasifier?
Adam Curry: Yeah. They use it in the during the Depression.
Dave Jones: It did which to the great embarrassment of my wife,
but it will work?
Adam Curry: No, because she'll be on the back shoveling wood
into the gasifier as you're driving along. She'll have a
job. Baby, you
Dave Jones: remind me to tell you my misogyny story one day.
Okay. This is not for the show, not for the board meeting. Oh,
no, it's for the boy. So you can be for the board meeting. But I
don't want to interrupt your flow though. Okay,
Adam Curry: well, so, and I get this message. Mio. And I'm like,
this thing that I saw the Smosh probably listen to that. And it
was an interview with Yanis Varoufakis. And Yanis Varoufakis
is actually a guy I kind of never liked. He was for a brief
time about five or six months he was the the finance minister for
Greece. And he not a job anybody wants. Well, this was in 2010 I
think when the banks essentially bankrupted Greece. And then all
of Northern Europe hated them. I mean, people were so mad at
Greece because you guys, you're all the fault of all our
financial problems and people going into Greek restaurants in
Amsterdam and not paying saying, Yeah, you owe me that. I mean,
it was horrible. It was horrible. And Yanis Varoufakis
is an economist, Professor of economy, you've probably seen
them bald head, you know, really kind of deep voice, motorcycle
kind of guy. Then and he's a devout socialist, he, I think he
calls himself a Marxist, but in the most traditional sense of
the word, whatever that means. Whatever that means.
Dave Jones: I love the love the, the degrees and the specificity
by which Marxist proclaim their Marxism. It's, oh, there's
always caveats is I'm a Marxist, but I'm not. I'm not that kind
of Marxist. I'm a, you know, I'm a fourpoint. Marxist or
whatever, you know,
Adam Curry: he was actually like, I love Hegel. But, you
know, I'm a Marxist. And it's like, anyway, so, but, you know,
he's done a lot of he's written books. And he's, I always felt
he's kind of an elitist, douche. But he's written a new book
called techno feudalism. And, yeah, you know, you're having
the same response to vor icad. I couldn't get him to think about
it either. Well,
Dave Jones: it's just the just the name is just so mean. You
already it's like you can already imagine
Adam Curry: what do you when you when you hear the techno
feudalism? What what do you think the book is about?
Dave Jones: Ai? No, no. Okay. All right. Well, I'm wrong. I'm
willing to get you you said that he was an elitist douche, and
I'm making notes as you have. I have an elitist douche
checklist. Oh, yeah. And I'm making notes. I'm like, Finance
Minister of Greece.
Adam Curry: Yes. Motorcycle deck, bald head check. Yeah,
Dave Jones: really low voice like Klaus Schwab. I mean, we're
hitting all cylinders right here. So go ahead.
Adam Curry: So I'm going to play a little bit from one of Listen,
anyway, it was great. I was at the at the DIA to wait three
hours. So they have a cappuccino bar. So I sit at my laptop, I'm
doing all my email and listen to these things. And, and this is
just one example of what he says is techno feudalism. And it kind
of hit home for me about the stuff we're doing here at
podcasts index. And, and this, this band of thieves and robbers
that that are surrounded around, you know, this project, this
podcasting, 2.0, RSS, and podcast index, and apps and
wallets and all this stuff. So this is just one minute he
explains a version of techno feudalism. But what has happened
is, if you're Jeff Bezos, if you are the owner of Google, of
Apple, of if you're Elon Musk, then you own this new form of
cloud capital, which allows you to extract from the rest of
society from proletarians. But from everyone else, as well,
huge quantities of rents and surpluses in a manner that
reconstitute is a form of feudalism. The difference is
that instead of the original feudalism, which is a system
based on private ownership of land, which produces rent, now,
it's private ownership of the clouds of cloud capital, because
the cloud is capital, right? It's not some cloud up in the
sky in the sky, which yields again, a form of rent, every
time you buy something from amazon.com 40% of what you pay,
doesn't go to the capitalist who is selling you that stuff. It
goes to Jeff Bezos, that's a cloud rent and he is a new form
of feudal lord. So when I listen to this, I immediately thought
about Apple via we call it the apple tax, but it's really Apple
saying, Hey, you want to be on our platform, we forced you into
apps. Now, if you want to make any money, that's fine, you can
make money, but you got to pay us 30%, which is pretty high
rent. Yeah, Spotify tried to do this, but they didn't really own
their capital. The record companies own their capital of
the record. Companies don't care about what they're doing with
podcasting. In fact, it was their own desperate attempt to
make some money outside of the music business by taking this
free content. But make no mistake, they're charging for
your free content. If someone pays $5 a month, or I don't
think it's $5 anymore, it's probably seven pays for via
Yeah, you're paying for your music. And I'm just looking at
musicians. Now. They're, they're in essence taking money, whether
someone listens to your show or not to your music or not, to
your show or not. This is in a way what Apple had become,
although they never charge money for it, but hey, you want a
subscription? Yeah, we got subscription services for you.
30% We're gonna take that right off the top of all of these, and
it's not just money. Bye, guys. Go, they have tremendous what
Varoufakis here would call cloud capital, because you actually
feed back your data to them in many different ways. Now it's
like time, talent and treasure, thank you very much. Thank you
for all your data, we're gonna suck that all up. And they turn
around and sell you sell, sell, you know, your own body, your
own behaviors to other people. And, you know, there's reasons
why this, you know, that there's no Twitter in the EU. You know,
there's no Google of the EU, there's only these massive
companies, which, for all kinds of understandable reasons have
become, in a way or overlords and control us to the degree
now, that if you look at the digital services agreement, in
the EU, if you look at the Online Safety Act in the UK, if
you look at what Canada is doing with their CRTC, I think it is
beyond their Yeah, you must register. This is all because of
these platforms. And these platforms have so much power
they bring in so much. Why Why does the EU Sue Google and Apple
and want to sue the Twitter ex all the time, because they have
no way of extracting any money from them? They don't get any
tax revenue suits. Yeah, they don't get any tax revenue.
That's all, you know, fussed away in all kinds of different
manners. And as I'm listening to this, I'm saying like, this is
exactly why podcasting is still what it is today. And has not
been sucked up into some. And then Google's still trying it.
They are once again trying because yeah, you can, I guess
add your RSS feed into into Google mute YouTube music. And
and in a way, you know, I guess it's the it's a way to
distribute your podcast, but they are, they won't let you
have ads. They'll extract all value from your, from your
community. The in player stats, you know, that. I mean, once
you're in the app, they even know if you're listening or
watching something laying down walking standing up in the car.
I mean, they know all this stuff. Yeah. So they are taking
all of all the capital. And I realized that what we've created
with podcast index. And with value for value, it's a critical
piece, a crit, this is where Varoufakis, as a socialist
doesn't quite get it. We have a collective cloud. Him and the
members of the cloud, the participants of our cloud, let's
just call that podcast index. They we are distributing value
all throughout this system in and out in the form of the
easiest form is Satoshis. And the more I look at this model,
the more I see what we are doing here is just an easy way.
Because it's podcasting and it has a certain cachet, it has an
independent nature. There. Thank Thank God, we have hundreds if
not worldwide, 1000s of independent hosting companies.
There's ways to host yourself, this is the only the only future
for any type of media distribution. The only way
forward, I don't care what would noster says and this and that.
And that's it's a great idea, but they can't reinvent 20
years. 24 years really, of development and infrastructure,
which is solid, it's just solid throughout all the pipes. It's
there.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's established. It's an it's
entrenched,
Adam Curry: it's completely entrenched. It's an it's
completely I mean, even if you look now. And so this is for a
number of things, it's for unfettered distribution, let's
just you can call it free speech, if you want but how
about unfettered distribution, I don't even believe in censorship
resistant as a as a term. I mean, this is one to one, one to
many. And the it's it's it's unfettered, there's, there's no
interference, there's no model that these big institutions or
governments can come up with to disrupt the RSS distribution at
all. If you look now at the DSA dashboard.
Dave Jones: What is that by the way? Can you just
Adam Curry: Yes, so did the Digital Services Act is let me
just bring it up here. The Digital Services Act is the
regulation in Europe that I'm gonna bring it up where I have
this man here, so
Dave Jones: this is great. I just saw Just search for Digital
Services Act, get the first link in the in the in the Google
result. And it takes me to the Digital Services Act package
page. And it has a promo video on here. And in the promo video
the thumbnail says, protecting fundamental rights and freedom
of expression. This is such a classic government like
reversal, we're restricting your rights and freedom of expression
by to protecting your rights and freedoms
Adam Curry: to protect your freedom. Yes, exactly. Protect
your freedom. So the Digital Services Act is this set of
regulations. It boils down to this hate speech is not allowed.
Violence is not allowed. riling somebody up for violence is not
allowed. Disinformation is not allowed. And they're now going
after all the platforms. The top ones are tick tock Pinterest,
Amazon, Facebook, Google, then ex.
Dave Jones: Pinterest is the one that Pinterest uses me porn
Adam Curry: porn. Pinterest is mainly porn. And so they really
Oh yeah, they have these categories violence,
intellectual property infringement, pornography or
sexualized content as a difference. If so, you know,
what is pornography? I don't know. But when I see it all No.
Yeah. Okay. And, and so they are going after the platforms,
requiring the platforms to delete video and I can go into
all the keywords and categories, I can go in here for a second. I
can give you an example. Animal Welfare data protection and
privacy violations, ie legal or harmful speech. Intellectual
Property infringement, negative effects on civic discourse or
election, non consensual behavior, pornography or
sexualized content protection of minors, risk for public security
scams and or fraud, self harm, scope of platform service,
unsafe and illegal products. That's where Amazon comes in,
and violence. So these are all the top categories that are
being tracked by this digital services. The DSM Digital
Service Act transparency database. So in the eu is eu
only how many takedowns? Because that's what they're tracking has
statements of reasons for takedown per hour do you think
are occurring right now on across platforms? In the
European Union? per hour per hour?
Dave Jones: Let me say only Okay, so you get supposedly
Facebook has banned, let's just say a billion users. Unless
Adam Curry: I'll tell you that tick tock is at the top of the
list, actually, with takedowns. Interestingly enough,
Dave Jones: tick tock, yeah, well, that may, you know, that
kind of makes some sense. How many users did tick tock dab? Do
we know how many monthly and as there's no
Adam Curry: idea that mean, but just what do you think would be
a reasonable number to be to be flagging or taking down per
hour? In the EU?
Dave Jones: Just see is only is only the EU? I would I would it
would probably have to be like 10,000 10,000
Adam Curry: per hour? Currently 147,202 takedowns per hour?
Dave Jones: That doesn't even seem possible. Like what could
this possibly be?
Adam Curry: At all those things I just mentioned, basically,
stuff the government doesn't like. So usually, you said that
your yourself best when you have a big red button. It's hard not
to press it.
Dave Jones: Yeah. When you bid when you build a thing, like
when I think we we did the statics we did this thought
experiment when when Gigi was on the show, and I was trying to
make a point. You know, the thought experiment goes like
this, you know, you build a system. They give let's let's
say the government builds a system where every home in the
country has a lock on as a lock on the door. And this lock is
remotely controllable by a big red button in a government
office somewhere. And they said well, this is only this is only
in case of emergencies, that we're going to use this button
and it's going to lock everybody inside their homes and you build
it and forevermore you're just you're just staring at that
button. You're like man, you know it the definition of
emergency starts to creep lower and lower and lower when you
have the ability to do something like this. Just the point is
that the point of the thought experiment is just to say that
when you if you allow the capability to be built You're
allowed you are you are forcing its usage.
Adam Curry: I have the here's the full list of things that are
being taken down for the following reasons. This is over
the last 90 days. Okay, some of them are repeats of what I just
said. Animal hard adult sexual material age specific
restrictions concerning minors age specific restrictions.
biometric data breach Child Child Sexual Abuse material
content promoting eating disorders, coordinating harm,
copyright infringement, dangerous toys data
falsification, defamation, design, infringement
discrimination, disinformation, foreign information manipulation
and interference, gender based violence, geographic indication
infringements, geographical requirements, goods and services
not permitted to be offered on the platform, grooming sexual
enticement of minors hate speech, human exploitation,
human trafficking, ie legal organizations, image based
sexual abuse, including content depicting minors, impersonating
or account hijacking. In authentic accounts in authentic
listings in authentic user reviews, incitement to violence
and or hatred, insufficient information on traders, language
requirements, misinformation, missing persons ground for data,
non consensual image sharing non consensual items containing deep
fake or similar technology using a third party feature, nudity,
online bullying or intimidating patent infringement fishing
pyramid schemes, regulated goods and services right to be
forgotten. Risk for environment risk for environmental damage. I
mean, this. So any, we have probably, in fact, had five and
fractions just in the 25 minutes we've been talking.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. before the show starts. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So I mean, this is all fine. But there's no way for
anyone to regulate this in the RSS based system, that doesn't
mean that we need to be a free for all for everything. But this
is never going to they want they the collective de governments.
And in the US, we still have this constitution, very
annoying, annoying, First Amendment, very annoying thing.
But even that has, you know, we've got section 2:30am, this,
the regulation is creeping in. You've seen you've seen the
university studies of podcasting how harmful it is, and we this
has to stop and we have to get rid of this. Right now. The only
weakness in podcasting is advertising. That's the only
weakness. That's the only place they can get you at this point.
They cannot quote unquote, get you any other way. And what
we've built here, I believe is a model for to bring back weblogs,
with code, you can turn it into a microblogging service. I mean,
that's easy. Just it's just how you present it in an app. I
mean, that's how Twitter started, it was RSS feeds. This
is the model for video distribution, the model for
books, the model for thoughts, the model for everything that
you want to distribute. And we have built this model and are
showing that it is completed, they have not been able to
penetrate it even with a billion dollars.
Dave Jones: I'm trying to find out so have a have a question
here. Same as a reason issued fall primarily in these
categories. Okay, that was interesting as I'm looking at
what you're what you showing me about the DSA under most active
platforms, yeah. Tik Tok, Pinterest, Amazon, Facebook,
Google, Google Maps, most use categories. The number one is
scope of platform service. So scope of platform service. Am I
too, am I right? And cuz it's a weird, it's a weird phrase. So
that sounds like violations of the platform's Terms of Service.
Sure. Yeah. Is that is the D Is that what that is? I think so.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I think so. Which I'm sure will be all kinds
of, you know, subcategories of impersonating intimidating
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. They might just not they just
report that under this other category.
Dave Jones: Yes. Okay. So this says statements of reason issued
fall issued fall primarily in these three kind of in these
categories, scope of platform service, three main statements
covering age specific restrictions, good services not
permitted to be offered on the platform, nudity, etc. Okay, so
that yes, so this scope of platform service category, of
which there were yesterday alone, there were 2,047,247
record lists for takedown, based on based on scope of platform
service only. Yeah.
Adam Curry: And the platforms are doing that because they're
being threatened by governments, hey, you better take that down
or abuse me. We know this because this court this is right
now went from the Fifth Circuit to the Supreme Court is back,
and it'll take years. But what the the Trump and Biden
administration's were doing, and without I mean, FBI, CDC,
Department of Health and Human Services and Department, the
Homeland Security Department, Department of Homeland Security,
they were all threatening social media companies to take things
down. Then if you don't, you're killing people, you'll be held
accountable. We have ways to get to you all the end, these are in
emails, this is all you will not hear any reporting on this.
Dave Jones: Well, the way and the way they did it, and this
came out, you know, Twitter, follow the Twitter file. Yeah,
the Twitter files. If it's, you know, a lot of Twitter files
were boring. But if there's one takeaway from in one thing that
I think one great service that I think it did was it showed how
this it showed what the method was. And the method is exactly
this is you report a something to the platform. And what you
say is, we think that these posts or these users are
violating your community guidelines. Yes. Yes. Your Terms
of Service? You don't tell them to do you say with when you say
here are a bunch of here's a bunch of content that is
violating your platform's terms. And is that it once you have a
government that tells you that it creates this nice, this this
nice separation of concerns, where where the government can
say, hey, look, we're just reporting your own violations of
your own terms. We're not saying to take it down, right? We're
just saying, you know, and then the but then the platform is
like, Yeah, but it's the government telling me to take it
down. And they're, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on
as section 230. And if I don't take this down like I did, it
creates this very nice plausible deniability of and that's
exactly the way this works. It does not surprise me at all that
statements, scope of platform service is the number one
category. And that's the way it's probably always going to be
probably
Adam Curry: probably, yeah. So this is a long way of saying
podcasting as a distribution mechanism. You know, we all know
what we think a podcast is, but the actual method of
distribution. It's a misnomer. And that's too bad. But we're
just stuck with it. But you the only way forward for humanity
literally for humanity is RSS based distribution. And I'll
take it one step further, we probably have to all focus on
browser based services, progressive web apps, pure
browser based because they're common for all apps, all of
them, all apps are going to be scrutinized, because the
platform is now Apple. And Apple has too much to lose. With all
these governments and all this crap, they mean, they can say,
oh, no, no iPhones in Europe than okay, that's fine. As China
said it, no, no iPhones to be sold in China, unless you do X,
Y, or Z, or unless you remove this from your search or don't
allow that app to show up the web is that it truly the only
frontier we have left. Now the beauty is we have the index
which can be filled to the brim with any any type of feed we
want with the medium tag genius genius. Dave Jones, Alex gates
genius. The this the the saving grace is pod ping, we need to
build that out. And the end, the end the way it works so that
we're not just good Samaritans is the value for value peace.
And that will only work with with consumers of content, who
are who should also be producers of content, if you look at the
way value for value works, to feed back into the system. And
those that have audiences that don't feed back into the system
will probably eventually go away. So this whole idea that
was started with the success of cereal, and then the big money
that was dangled in front of us from Spotify, and other big, big
technology companies mainly it's all gone. It's all gone away,
and maybe that'll come back with with when when interest rates go
back down to zero inevitably they will it may be 10 years, it
may be 10 months, maybe 10 minutes, I don't know. Literally
could happen. This is if you're a creator, it's not you're not
it's not a business model being a creator you meant you're doing
A podcast for some reason, the entertainment, all of that.
Yeah, that's right. You need to be on the platforms, you need to
play by the platform rules, you can probably get platform money.
But the amount of people who are ever going to get to that level
is less than 1%.
Dave Jones: I was listening to show prep on the way in, you
know, yeah, me too. But and his weekly review. And I think James
had a very good way of putting this statement was in discussing
YouTube. He's he said, the way that they the way that YouTube
works is, if you make enough money, they'll let you keep some
of it. I thought that was a great way to describe it. He's
exactly right. So if you make enough money, they'll make it
they'll let you keep a little bit of
Adam Curry: Well, I'm glad you I'm glad you heard that that
episode, because there was a lot of to do about this app that is
using free content and charging $49 for it to put you to sleep
at night. And I'm like, I didn't hear that part I didn't hear you
might have it was on it was a pod news story earlier in the
week, some I forget what it's called. But you know, the taking
content that is out there for free, and charging people $49
For an app I'm like, so that's what Google does. That's what
Spotify does. The like, you know, distribution is
distribution.
Dave Jones: They throw ads in it.
Adam Curry: I get ads all the time and podcasts that that are
on, like Joe Rogan, I pay for a subscription, I still get ads.
But But the bottom line is what we're doing here is not it's
never going to be for big money. And there might be some
exceptions. But in general, it's going to value for value
proposition keeps everybody keeps the engine running. And I
October 26, it'll be our 16th anniversary of no agenda. We are
not rich by any stretch of the imagination. We and it took us
five years of early five years with barely. Meanwhile, we
started just as the iPhone one came out. And then it took a
long time for that to really progress. It takes a long time,
and a lot of dedication and an outstanding product to create a
value flow that you can live on. It'd be and I think I would say
two years, you have to do your show regularly for two years
before you can really build up an audience that will sustain
you but it is possible. Everybody wants the the old way
of doing things. And the old way of doing things is it's not
going to be it's not going to be fun. It's going to be
restrictive. You're going to be very spun up and worried all the
time, if not about A D platforming a D monetization,
but the worst part is D algo. ideation. That's where the true
evil lives is the algos and the algo makes people on YouTube
work. It's like a hamster wheel. Run hamster run otherwise the
water doesn't doesn't dribble in you don't get your little piece
of the money. And long way around of saying we are doing
something that is I think is bigger than podcasting. It's no
you already see I know Stephen B's thinking about it. How do we
do value for value for blogs. The first thing is the model we
have can be replicated forget the per minute streaming
obviously that's not really going to work with you know, you
have to send me 100 sites because I've read your blog or I
scroll down or whatever. But I will say the browser is the only
place and even that I mean I think you can you can you can
load a different browser on an iPhone, but it will never be
your default browser right that's always gonna go to Safari
as of as of now Yeah, as of now as of now you can still load a
different browser I think PW A's are the only way to go and you
probably know you're probably gonna have to go to a different
type of mobile device in the future as well. Just because
they're closing it in and it's all for your protection to
protect your freedoms to protect everybody else's feelings. And
you know and and the people who thought oh, this is so great. We
can get rid of these a holes these these douchebags these
scumbags these white nationalists these racist these
transphobes Guess what? It's going to be used on you to
Dave Jones: always, it always is that it's just if you don't
think it will, it's just it's just an ignorance of history.
Like, like, like, like, like I said, when you build when you
build it, it's there. And it compels it's compels its own
use. You don't build something just for the other guy. It when
you build it, it's it's going to be used again. Is everybody
because because it's it's, it's more than human nature. It's a
law of the of reality that when you have a thing in front of
you, you find reasons to use the thing. You can't help it.
Adam Curry: That's your big red button theory. Yes, yeah,
Dave Jones: you can't help it. And so if you create a math a, a
master, I mean, I'm just gonna call it what is its censorship.
And when you create a master censorship list, you're gonna
earn a censorship regime. That thing is going to be used for
everybody. And
Adam Curry: stop right there. Okay, exactly what happened with
Mastodon, the fediverse. Great idea. borderless lockless. I am
on every block list by default me. It's nice not just no
agenda. No, no, it's me. Oh, curries involved that block
podcast index dot social is on block list because Adam curry is
involved with this. He's from no agenda block.
Dave Jones: Well, we're, we're on if you federate, there's no,
there's there's no second tier list where if you federate with
somebody on the block list, you're on the block list?
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly.
Dave Jones: That's the way this stuff works. So, you know, one
thing that bothers me a little bit about, about this whole
thing is I'm wondering, you know, I want to part of me
thought that we were sort of finished with this endeavor of,
we talked a little bit about it last week, where we thought we
were finished with the whole, let's make a full directory that
doesn't have you know, that the only thing this take that gets
takedowns is, you know, for legal reasons, local legal. And
I'm, you know, I'm now less confident in that, because the
platforms are being targeted directly. Now. Me we, it's right
now it's rumble. They're going, they're going after rumble. And
then it's soon soon, but mark my words, soon it will be substack.
Then after yet, Oh, totally. The day is substack, based out of
Australia. Something tells me that
Adam Curry: maybe could be
Dave Jones: okay. And I think maybe one of the founders is
there. I'm not real sure. Anyway, neither here nor there.
But they will go after substack. Because substack has way too
much on like Seymour Hersh, people like that these people
have, they have got to be dealt with. They're too dangerous to
let them out there and saying the things that they're saying.
So and so that bothers me a little bit, because I'm like,
Well, we're based
Adam Curry: in San Francisco. San Francisco. Okay.
Dave Jones: Part of me is thinking. We I think I think I
described it last week as we need to focus on
decentralization.
Adam Curry: Well, okay, so, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm gonna go
ahead, go ahead.
Dave Jones: It kind of came back up during the week this week,
because we're trying to solve the issue of podcasts getting
sort of de prioritized in the index. for financial reasons, we
cannot pull 5 million feeds every 15 minutes. It's just not,
it's not going to happen. So one of the biggest things that I've
had to do since day one of the index is dessert. Every time it
was every step of the build out of the index for the last three
years, it has been in my mind with each step to make sure
because we have a limited budget, make sure that we are
doing everything as efficiently as possible. That means we can't
fully parallelize because that costs a lot of money. That's we
can't scale out. We have to use time as our biggest factor. The
way that has played out and react in in sort of the reality
of what the index does under the covers, is, if if a podcast goes
for six months with no new episodes, it gets de
prioritized. So it's the index stops polling it very often. It
goes into what I what I usually call this lazy polar, is
basically it gives it we'll get around to it whenever it gets
around to it. Eventually, it'll get polled, but not always. So
this obviously has a downside. I mean, the The downside is, you
know, sometimes podcasts go on hiatus, which is what happened
to this, CNN, Israel, ISRAEL PALESTINE con, you know, thing
it lay, I believe it like went away. And then it came back when
the when the Hamas thing happened in there. That's,
that's not ideal. We we know we need to be better than that. So
the question so then this brought up a strategy that we're
throwing that we're throwing around Christopher ice is doing
some brainstorming on this, which is helpful. He's, you
know, we're trying to decide how can we distribute the load? So
you could run your own
Adam Curry: aggravator,
Dave Jones: right, yeah, your own polling agent, and grab a
copy of all the feeds that have not been pulled in a certain
period of time, like, the feeds that seem to have been de
prioritized. And then you can, you can aggregate some of them,
you can be compulsive of them. If you find a new, if you find a
new episode, you can then ping us, let us know that the so then
we'll reindex it, and bring it back, you know, sort of
resurrected from the from its hypersleep. And this is great.
But then, um, you know that then this leads me sort of further
down this mental path of saying, Well, okay, if you if we're
going this direction. Yes, that's right, Eric push into
popping, if we're going this direction, then why don't we
keep going this direction, and distribute load, not necessarily
distribute load, but distribute the index. Now, this is a much
bigger issue. I mean, like, this is not, this is a, this is a
much more complicated thing. But But I want to think about this.
I mean, we're doing this same thought process. And we're doing
this same discovery with IPFS. And you built out some some
gateways, and we're trying to, we're trying to trying to start,
we're going down this path of distributing this thing to where
there are not single points of failure. Yes, or single points
of takedown. If you want to say that, yes. And I think we need
to fully explore that. And the reason I'm saying all this is
because I'm thinking about it daily, and coming up with some
ideas, I've already got a few, you know, and but I want other
people to think about this as well. And it has to be even if
it's as simple as just, you know, what the the sort of the
technique we've always relied upon is okay, we're going to
make the down the database downloadable. If something
happens to to us, and we're forced by some government entity
to take down something that everybody did you know, that
there's massive disagreement about whether it's, it should
have been taken down?
Adam Curry: Well, the categories are well known. They're right
there, but I would say, probably 10% of the index and violation
today, right now, hands down, including no agenda.
Dave Jones: Oh, you own the EU terms? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same
with the UK
Adam Curry: terms. I'm not sure eventually with the Canadian
terms. Yeah. So I'm, so you and I are thinking exactly like, and
I know. That's a that's a huge undertaking. It is. And I think
that's something we need to work on long term, but I'm seeing
others. So I don't like saying this. But I know I can. I know
that they're gonna go after hosting companies. I know,
they're gonna start saying, Okay, we're sick and tired of
this. This is showing up. They're gonna go to Apple for
the apps. Take down that up. That's literally what Canada is
going to do. But Apple, you have podcasts, okay. So you have to
register and then that means that we're going to tell you,
you have to take this this podcast out of your app. And
it's only a hop skip and a jump from there before they go. Okay.
Buzzsprout Okay, blueberry. Okay, Lipson, you know,
eventually as a business, you're gonna you're gonna buckle you're
gonna have to choose and I'm not blaming anybody for doing that.
Dave Jones: No, they don't. They don't have a choice. I mean,
they don't they're, they're victims of this. Yes,
Adam Curry: yes. But I want to be out in front of it. And so
really, it's we need to just going to come down to produce
things like IPFS things like Tor. We have to start baking
that in now. All
Dave Jones: right about PW A's Yeah, the PW A's. I think, as
I'm just gonna lay my cards on the table I've always been. I've
always been skeptical of PW A's. Because I've always felt like
the platforms, the mobile platforms, iOS and Android would
kneecap them.
Adam Curry: They still, they still mind.
Dave Jones: They might, they might, but I'm, I'm thinking,
but I'm thinking this is probably right. I mean, you
know, the PW A's is the way, it's the way you get around. All
of this really is fun. I mean, because it's funny because the
web, the web is where we started in the web is what we're going
back to.
Adam Curry: It's all it's all that is for the people, because
the only thing and it'll take a while because there's just like
there's no not enough, not enough IRS agents to do audits
everywhere. There's just not going to be enough EU police to
go after everything they're gonna go out. It's easy for
them. It's like, hey, look, we can do this. We can, you know,
it's easier and more fun to go after Apple or Instagram, or
YouTube or Tik Tok? Because we can also find them. We get lots
of money from that. You're not gonna get a lot of money at
Todd.
Dave Jones: Yes, right. Yeah.
Adam Curry: I mean, again, no disrespect anywhere. But yeah.
And, and by the grace of God, we have lightning, the Lightning
Network, that we have a value for value system that enables us
to spread value. It's not a lot now. But what are we even doing
this really three years seriously. I mean, the whole
Lightning Network is only a couple of years old. This is
built, and all the naysayers and all the detractors and all the
anti crypto people. And I mean, it's it just slowly keeps
building is building and building and building. And maybe
we're only doing this for 3% of humanity. But that 3% will be
okay. And this is not just for developers, and Adam and Dave.
Now this is for podcasters. This is for podcast, people who enjoy
podcasts, who like their the podcasts they listen to who want
to keep hearing that who need to support that. And what that
means you have to run some kind of service at home on a
computer, people will do it. But you know, it's going to be for a
small percentage and don't expect, you know, podcasting to
be a $2 billion industry. Not that it ever has been in my
mind. But it's it's it's a human thing. Like what's happening
right now, in the Middle East. There's a lot that is not
getting out. There's I mean, do you want to talk to this
information? I'd say governments are doing more than the people
right now.
Dave Jones: By a by a factor of of something by a huge factor.
Yeah, for sure. And I
Adam Curry: mean, I really just want to go back to wow, I wish I
could find a couple of blogs that are updating and I can, you
know, I got I got feed readers, none of them really function the
way they except for the freedom controller. None that really
function the way that's that's handy, you know, and there's
another thing we need to do. And it's this all exists. If that's,
you know, we're going to have to move to the content being
published in structured data, so not just your feet. This is
like, I just have experience with this, the fact that I
publish all my show notes and all information and OPML has
been an incredible rich experience. Because time and
again, developers come along and say, Oh, look at this structured
data, I can read that. I can do something cool with that.
Dave Jones: There's no need for LLM or anything like that. It's
all right there. Yes, me
Adam Curry: and why wouldn't I have my own algo that does my
own shuffling of content based upon my rules? I should I should
and that's really the main thing. That's what social
networks I've right now. I despise no agenda social. I
gotta say it I started this thing. I love that I love that
Aaron or took over because a tremendous amount of work. But
now it's like I I just want to subscribe to People and read
what they have to say and I want to be I don't want to get into
arguments. I don't want I don't want to have comments back and
forth in the feed. It's all wrong. It's all it makes me
unhappy.
Dave Jones: So I think this is a you know, this, this is
interesting. I've got a clip from Paul throt this clip number
one, I think so. I think it's worth playing this real quick
just just to see okay, so the issue here is the what we've all
seen we all know about this this in certification of the internet
Unknown: I think,
Adam Curry: sorry, I thought that was
Dave Jones: No, no, yeah, no hit it hit.
Unknown: I think like I create content, we all create content,
right? This is one thing. So not surprisingly, I see the value in
content. And I see the value in paying for good content. I try
to support content sources that I think are high quality.
There's a podcast that I listened to that I really like,
and for the most part, and the problem is there's not enough of
it, and I'm running out of stuff to listen to, and I wish there
was a thing, and they have a patron. And so that so they have
little excerpts from like, these Patreon episodes. So I went, I
was at the gym. And between sets I literally went to because I
ran out of stuff to listen to I was like, what are they? How
does this work? And the thing I wanted to figure out was, if I
pay them, can I use the the app I use to listen to that content?
Right, I think it's four bucks a month or something for this
particular thing. And I couldn't figure it out, I think I have to
go to the Patreon website, frankly, however, and this is
the part where you would be very familiar with Apple, maybe not
alone, but somewhat unique among podcasts, platform providers,
has subscriptions in their podcast app that you can do on a
per subscription basis. So the podcast, if I pay them directly,
it's four bucks a month. If I pay through Apple, it's only
through the apple podcast app, which I don't want to use
because I prefer cross platform. And it's more expensive, right?
Because Apple has their 30%. Yep. So it's five bucks. Right?
That's the that's the cost. And is like, that is a great
example, something that should just be easier, right? It
shouldn't matter what app I use it, I should be able to sign
into the account of the app and get that content through any
podcast app. And I don't think I can I could be wrong, but I
don't think right.
Adam Curry: Well, he's right there. He's actually talking
about two different techno feudalist, which is Apple, and
also Patreon. What do they do like 10% these days? And then
they'll kick you off? If they don't like you if they get
complaints about, you know, a t shirt your war? Yeah, right.
Dave Jones: I think this is this is an interesting is an
interesting way. You know, I think as people who write stuff,
they write code and sort of build out systems that do
podcast delivery and podcast support. Let's just call it
podcast infrastructure. I think it's always interesting to hear
people who are not, who are technically literate. I'm not
talking about you know, your grandmother. I'm just talking
about people who are technically literate, but who are not in the
same milieu that we're in. And hear them describe what they
sort of expect to happen. And what their confusions and
frustrations are. And, you know, what he's describing is
something that is not new to anybody who built our podcast
infrastructure. We all understand this is an enormous
mess. And what and it should, he said, he says, this should be
easier. Hey, everybody, over here on this side of the
podcasts, infrastructure world, we all agree, this should
absolutely be easier. The reason it's not has nothing to do with
technology, because the technology exists and has
existed forever. I mean, you could do this very easily. I
mean, we we got on the on the horn, you know, we got Tom Rossi
on this show and banged out a subscription model and you know,
in a show, and that was based on stuff that we had actually done,
but way earlier. And so this is not it's not that it's difficult
or complicated. It's that these technical, would you call them
technical aristocratic, techno feudal,
Adam Curry: techno, techno feudalism.
Dave Jones: The Techno feudalist? Yes have have put
barriers in front financial barriers. And those financial
barriers are not just purely financial, they lead to deep
platforming. So you
Adam Curry: you violate enslavement that leads to
enslavement. Yeah, look at
Dave Jones: Dominus. They violated they were deemed to
have violated the terms by allowing people to send
lightning payments directly to each other and they were taken
down. They were deep platformed off of the app, the app store.
This this is what this is why the podcast app developer.
Community is so afraid. How many times have we heard over the
years that you I would love to support that. But I'm just a
little nervous that I'll get that I'll get rejected by app
review,
Adam Curry: or or Yeah, App Review, Apple, Google, Google
has some weird rules too. Yes,
Dave Jones: for the day store. And that, in some ways, Google's
are even more arbitrary than iOS, me, because you'll go long
periods of time with no feedback, everything's fine. And
then just out of the blue. And so please, go ahead and play
part two of that. Paul, throughout,
Unknown: this is something where this is going to come up again
and again. The answer is really, no, there's no, that's the
problem. And it's gonna, hopefully, through regulation
and customer pushback, some of this stuff will revert or get
better, right?
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. Don't worry, the government's here to
help. They'll take care of it for you. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yes. This is this is the this is the answer that
people think we'll have is, oh, if we just sue. If we just get
the EFF the the, you know, the FTC. And if we just if we just
said anti anti anti trust, that all this stuff will sort itself
out? No, no, no, no, no, that's that's absolutely not the case.
Antitrust, anti competitive ministries of anti
competitiveness, these things around the world. They don't
exist to make. They don't exist to make the marketplace more
fair. They exist
Adam Curry: to give advantage to the to the big
Dave Jones: to the incumbent and the big incumbent. Exactly. They
are moat their moat builders.
Adam Curry: That's exactly why you're seeing AI regulation. No
one knows what it is. But we can't have people doing this
stuff at home. Now, we can't have that which, of course, is
already the genies out of the bottle.
Dave Jones: But I think this I think this really solidifies
that that idea that PWA is really are probably the the only
thing that that the only thing that makes sense long term for a
free for a purely free experience
Adam Curry: a question about PWA? Is, is it possible once
you've can can you load an entire podcast app being a PWA?
Local, on your in your local browser? And I mean, I
understand there's a lot of things you can't get without the
platform itself, without the machine itself, per se, but the
virtual machine that is a browser? I mean, can it? Can it
do enough? Visit? I mean, I started to look into it a little
bit, it seems like it is. So I know that, for instance, cast
ematic. Is it a serverless? App? Can you do the same and a PWA.
And I understand that an index or a place a light does have a
lightweight client, meaning you can't be actually I would say
that the only reason we have indexes is for search. I'm just
gonna go out on a limb here. There's a lot of other reasons
that are that are handy to have one. But it's really like I want
to it removes that the age old problem of click right click on
the RSS button and add it to your feed. That's really what it
removes.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but ya know, yeah. And that's actually
bothered me in the past. I'm like, you know, the only thing
the only thing we really are here for is search. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So I understand that and search can be distributed.
There's lots of different, you know, thinking about that. But
can you create a PWA that just has it all in one bundle, you
load it once, now, and you load it from the server, you know,
there's a command service and here's the latest version, kind
of like a jar file back in the day, if I remember how Java used
to work, like, like you started up brings in a new JAR file,
okay, everything's good to go. Can Can that actually work in a
PWA? Can you build a podcast app that that is not just a web
front end, but actually has the logic in it?
Dave Jones: I think what you're saying is, can you could you
build an app where the essentially the index was in the
app,
Adam Curry: bar, whatever relevant, whatever relevant?
Well, not just the index, but the logic of all the logic that
an app has, you know?
Dave Jones: I guess. Yeah. You mean You mean like aggregating
feeds itself, not
Adam Curry: the ones you subscribe to storing,
downloading storing stuff, there's enough space and all
that within its machine, whatever that is. I mean, I
thought that used to be a problem while you only have so
many, so much room to store stuff. Can you store it in a
download to your drive? Can it talk to your logical file system
and all these things that I've not kept up on over the years?
As PW A's have progressed? I think
Dave Jones: my understanding is that PW A's My understanding is
Pw A's have an Access outside of the browser cross origin
sandbox? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's, I
think that's the case if I don't think they're restricted by the
same origin policy. Okay. If that and if that's the case,
you, you definitely could do what you're saying. That, you
know, think like, like Ben Ben. Benjamin Bellamy, you know, he
had talked before about, about building apps with the whole
directory just in it. Sure. You grab a copy of the of the index,
and yeah, it's
Adam Curry: only what's 60 gigs or whatever.
Dave Jones: 60 Gig app download? Yeah,
Adam Curry: well, I mean, you download the ones?
Dave Jones: You don't? Yeah, it's definitely doable, because
you could actually I know, this is a really interesting idea. If
you had if you had like a seat, I can envision a service, okay.
And I can envision us doing sort of like a build your own
directory function. So that you could say, Okay, I want I want
all of these, I want all of these feeds. Let's say you had
some way to efficiently select large quantities of feed, like,
like, I don't want any of I want all of blueberries fades, I want
all of us browse fades, I want all of RSS dot coms feet. I
don't I'm just making stuff up. You could large swaths of feeds,
you could curate and say, Okay, I want a database with just
that. And then you down and then you download a custom database,
to throw into your app into as a as a built in feed database. And
then as you and then, then you be your app could then sort of
poll the index to get fresh content, whenever it needed or
download the weekly full dump or whatever. I don't know, I'm just
I'm just brainstorming here. I'm trying to think of ways where
you could have a fully self contained app that didn't suffer
from like, potential deliverability blocks,
Adam Curry: right? Well, that's another thing you can miss
always blocks, there's always roadblocks, there's always
things that that that'll happen. But I mean, it really, if you
just take it back to this simple RSS just blogs, just for site
just microblogging. Just real simple. A progressive web app
should be able to subscribe to feeds, pull them, but also
create and modify your own feed, and upload it to IPFS or, you
know, something else. And then you just basically created a
competitor to every social network out there, and how you
present the content. That's what determines what it is. So, you
know, I've always advocated for different types of podcast app
experiences, it's still kind of the it would still email I mean,
we're still doing email. The here's, here's your, here's the
people have sent you stuff. Here's a, an indicator that says
there's new stuff. Now. Most of them have kind of the river of
news idea, like, like pod verse and fountain you have a
scrolling list. Yeah, that's, that's the thing that is
enjoyable about a podcast app, is I see what's new in
chronological order. And it's not determined by some algo as
to what I'm seeing first, or what's being pushed in my face
or below a comment that I can't control it not showing up, you
know, that we could mean the same infrastructure applies the
exact same infrastructure and probably eventually will doesn't
mean that posting companies have to go away at all. But we're
gonna have to start thinking about creating these things.
Dave Jones: There's just a difference. There's a difference
in purpose between, you know, fundamentally between what I
would say open source and the witching which is us is trying
to do and what the podcast industrial complex what their,
what their endeavors are.
Adam Curry: So there's they're fundamentally absolutely open
source. The web is open source. RSS is open, it's open. Anybody
can use it, anybody can create it, the minute it's not, they're
creating cloud capital, and it's meant to keep you out and it's
meant to make money on it, which is fine. But unfortunately, the
world is so connected now. That it's not just about money. It's
about power. It's about information. Power of
information, the power of words, you know, that we need to
create, we need to continue to create we're doing it, we need
to continue to create that parallel universe the same
thing. We had a very lovely call with Sam and Michael from wave
lake on. And it was good because we cleared a lot of things up.
And, and it really dawned on me so so the same thing applies, by
the way. I mean, eventually, someone's gonna go to wave Lake
and say, hey, you know, this song has this lyric in it, which
I accidentally played on boosted Grand Ball. Which
Dave Jones: which condolences, okay?
Adam Curry: Which, you know, is against European rules, it's
violence towards women, it's, you know, it. It's, it's
provocated, which, by the way, is what art sometimes is
supposed to be if not always wavelength, you got to take that
off. Now, that's going to happen, you just know what's
going to happen. Doesn't mean that that that company's that
handhold. And boy, I got a real I was humbled by my
misunderstanding of the difference between a podcaster
and musicians, artists, artists have had to have a very
different back end business model that has been created for
them, but they've all had to adhere to. And it's all
regulation, that all behooves the incumbents of not the
creator, if you will, at all. And all for, you know, for
industry and for publishing companies and record companies
and all stuff that is actually no longer needed. But you don't
just twist someone's mind overnight and say, Oh, you don't
have to do it that way. It's not that simple. The handholding
that will be necessary for for artists have to be brought into
the system, the understanding even just purely of what is an
RSS feed and what what do I actually own with it and what
what hangs off of it is miles behind where we are with
podcasting. And so I underestimated how important it
is what the company like wave Lake is doing to try and end
they're learning themselves. They are definitely learning
themselves to to bring that in. And and it really was apparent.
This was quite a phenomenal experience. So Ainsley
Costello's manager, Julie, so she loves Sam that wavelength
she loves what they're doing. She's so happy that you know
it's working and things are are taking off, but she completely
understands the future necessity of sovereignty. Because she's
been through the label lying the you know, the bullcrap the money
stealing, she's seen it all. And she's also seen it from the
modern platforms, the scam that just to get played the whole
thing. She understands that,
Dave Jones: but love to have her on the show if she would ever be
willing to talk about it.
Adam Curry: I'm sure she will not. The Julie is phenomenal,
because you can't just have a chat with her. I've had two
phone calls each one three hours. She said she sent me a
night she said no, but here's what's in she sent me an email
last night. I haven't responded to it yet. This is one of the
longest emails I've received in my life. Actually, let me do a
word count on it. This is hilarious homage.
Dave Jones: Does it come with a link to check GPT
Adam Curry: want to be able to summarize it? Yeah, it's
literally titled thoughts. Okay, hold on a second.
Dave Jones: Love one one word subject and 5000 word even
Adam Curry: though it may let me just see for it. And this isn't
an I love it. And my first opening and my reply to her is
going to be I love that you did this. Just let me just see Hold
on a second. No, let me just paste this. Let me get a word
caps. Let me get enough says it's a sub stack. Oh, no, it's
it's like it's two sub stack accounts. Is there there's got
to be a word I'm looking at notepad plus plus surely they
have a
Dave Jones: yes. And there is at the bottom on the status bar.
Oh,
Adam Curry: thank you my one Words 9779 Words. Whoa, yes.
Now,
Dave Jones: what do you fear for the mere fact the mere fact that
somebody okay, this when somebody sends me a one a one or
two sentence email. I'm very appreciative when somebody sends
me a five paragraph email I am annoyed when somebody sends me a
9000 word email. I'm like, I will print that thing and spend
a Sunday morning reading it. Because I mean, that is a person
who has something to say, and you better listen. Correct.
Adam Curry: So the first thing she goes into his US law about
what is a podcast? And you know, should it be deemed under? Me?
Oh, the radio guidelines? And so, you know, I'm going to set
her straight on that. Because if, if the industry, the
Haddaway, to license music and podcast, they would have done
it. Are you kidding me? They would love to do that. But they
can't, because they're all fighting against each other?
Because is it a performance? Is it a stream? Is it a download?
is a mechanical copy? Is it a? Is it a derivative work, I mean,
et cetera, et cetera. But what's interesting is that in this
quest for her, by her to, to fit the existing system of
publishing rights master and rap master recording, splits,
there's all these different things that go and this is just
for existing work and how she's had to work with with Ainsley in
her in her. In her career, she sees the need for a sovereign
way to do this. Now, here's what's an everyone has only been
helpful. So I'm not being negative about anybody. But I
also saw because she's in the telegram group. And she has had,
so she had a meeting with voltage and voltage said, Oh, I
know what you want, do you want your own node, then you want to
have BTC pay server. And, and so she's there, she's swimming in
the sea of information goes into the telegram group, you know,
the music part, music side project, which she's got music
side project running successfully. Because I'm having
this problem with the node and the first answers that come was
oh, no, you should run your own node on the laptop at home. Like
no, no, no. So now she's confused about liquidity. And
you know, we have to have liquidity. So all these things.
Yeah, she's just, she, she's, she can't see the forest through
the trees. And so that really made me realize that wow, you
know, we have a whole lot of work and an explaining to do and
even the she the fundament, she doesn't fundamentally yet
understand that she thinks that splits come from the split kit.
I mean, this is all so convoluted. And no one's to
blame. Everyone's really trying to help and she's gotten
incredibly far for where she is. But she now is things Okay,
well, it's actually good that every song has its own feed,
because that's the ownership of that song. And we can we can
split that underneath that. And she doesn't even fundamentally
yet, understand that a feed has a channel level and item level,
and that the ownership and
Dave Jones: and why would she? And I No, of course not. No, no,
no human should under should have to understand
Adam Curry: exactly, exactly. And again, everyone's just being
super helpful. It's just the eye and I'm sitting there, my eyes
are swimming, like, I'm 100. I'm gonna think about this for a
second and come exactly do we need to do this? So there's so
much thinking that has to go into this, that I'm very happy,
we're able to onboard artists and all through this quagmire of
just stuff because we've been dealing with liquidity of nodes
for three years when we started, there was ln pay. We that was
it. That was it, you know, and and voltage that was ordered for
roll your own and all that stuff was breaking left and right as
well. So while al B is not sovereign, per se, you know, I
thank God that we have Alby and now I see the breeze SDK is
starting to gain some traction. So we're building all this. At
the same time people are coming in at a level of understanding
that is very far behind ours. I think that that Sam and Michael
at wave Lake, you know, they're just kind of coming up to speed
on this stuff. And you and I both kind of half right on on
the splits there. But really, I'm gonna take some blame for
this because I misunderstood what they were saying. there was
miscommunication everywhere. The good guys, they really want to
try and artists have been jerked around for really, since day
one, if you think about it. From day one of the Ahmed Erdogan
selling the records out of the trunk of his car. Artists have
been jerked around mainly on money. And, and if you screw it
up, the artists gonna say okay, that was great. That didn't
work. Screw those guys. I'm not interested in this V for V
music. I don't Right, and even just what is value for value,
you know, this, this, this, we need a lot of time, and a lot of
love and care amongst each other to make this all fit together
and work. And I'm certainly guilty of running, running boom,
let me do I took the Bookstagram ball off this week, I was like,
I just got to notice that I just got to recollect my thoughts
here for a second. Yeah, just and also I wanted to, you know,
just look at everything I've played, and, you know, evaluate
what I'm doing. So, I'm just taking this took a little
breather, and it was really good, because this is when I saw
that we are so far on the path of good, good not just for meal,
forget commercial goodness, just good for people and humanity,
and distributing joy and information, and happiness and
sadness and all emotions and, and words of all kinds. You
know, Scott Tate, you know, the the Middle East thing happened,
like, Oh, my God, look, everyone's spun up and their
people want to go to the movie theater, they're so freaked out
by what they saw on social media, they're afraid now, you
know, so all these things come into play. And like, whoa, we
are being controlled. We are so controlled by this whole system
and ourselves. Now, we still have tail bones, we have no
business, trying to communicate with each other on a social
network. That, you know, I'm so happy that we have this group of
people who are thoughtful. And and, and, you know, yeah, I
think I stumbled I think I got a little, a little weird about
wave Lake, you know, being one of us or whatever. But really,
we're all in this together. And we have to all open up and
listen to where we're all coming from sometimes, you know, Alex
gates, I'm like, he'll say something like, here's a good
example. And I'm saying you know, I really love booster
grams the way they are on on fountain, you know, that all of
a sudden, there's a there's a people are, you know, they're
reading the booster grams on fountain, they can't read it
anywhere else. And so we get into this, you know, the kind of
old cross app comments, which just hasn't taken off, and I
still publish them, it just hasn't taken off, they're not
showing up and after whatever. It's okay. And, you know, his,
his demeanor is, I think it's wrong for people to have to pay
to comment on something. Right, which is totally okay. And so,
it was good, because instead of thinking now, screw you, Alex
gates, I thought, okay, how do I, how can I work around this to
get what I want? Which is not really the same as comments, I
realized it took me a minute to think about it. And I have a
request for service actually, that goes along with this. Now,
if someone wants to create this service, I will give you a split
and you can you can receive value for this service that I
would like I would like to have a service that takes my booster
grams for each episode, and creates a dynamic chapter file.
So that booster grams appear in a chapter at the minute they
were sent during the listening of the podcast. So instead of
images preset, and even if if that boosted Graham, because
it's all sent in the TLV. If that boosted Graham has a link
to a remote item such as a song I want that to be the link.
Dave Jones: Oh, okay, so you're saying that the the chapter,
let's just say chapters in chapter or chapter title,
Adam Curry: yeah, the chapter title and then something in the
art you can dynamically generate something. So just like a
timeline, you know, like the timeline on SoundCloud when
people leave comments that so instead of the timeline, the
minute someone says Now of course, you know, you'll have to
you know, it'll be different each time you load up the
podcast or whatever I mean, I'm not I'm not a bit chapters seem
to work pretty well. I start off with a dummy chapter and then
dread puts chapters in later and then they show up for people who
get it later and everyone seems to be pretty happy. I would love
to have the option to say okay, my chapter file is here and that
chapter file is generated dynamically from a split that I
send to a service then the service then takes the booster
Graham takes the timestamp, you know does like let's just like
heli pad with Eric p p is done is is cool. Like, you know, put
some duck emojis in there if it's a to to and show that as a
chapter. perfectly valid use of chapters, right?
Dave Jones: Well, I mean, I think you could probably make I
think he could probably make Hello Pat do that, right? I
mean, because you could take your take
Adam Curry: Yeah, you could have an export from hell it Well, the
thing is it would kind of have to be dynamic because people are
there listening to the show. Forget the live show just I
released a show there should be no booster grams. So once the
booster grams come in, for the next person should be able to
see that when they load up the episode. Or may or may or may be
there's a pod ping event that goes out at the same time and
then the app knows to refresh that or whatever. So but anyway,
my point being because I took a step back and it wasn't my
hackles are weren't hackles weren't all up because of a
philosophical difference we have. It led me to something
that I think is a fun way of doing it that that has nothing
to do with cross app comments. I guess I'm saying we need to
listen and love each other more.
Dave Jones: I know, sweetie,
Adam Curry: I'm really I'm on. I'm on a love trip here, baby.
Dave Jones: As I think this is important for a couple of
reasons. It's a good discussion, because we're between phases on
the namespace. We got a lot of good ideas. Yes, there's some
things we need. We want to go in, we get we want. We want to
continue going forward, you know, undeniably. But there's
also we don't here's a there's a risk here. The risk is
piggybacking off what the discussion was with what Paul
throughout was saying. Because he went on, he said a lot more
that that episode was there was a lot more than that I cut out
about just this idea of the modifications of the internet
and about overload of social media and all these things. The
risk, I believe, is that we don't want podcasting to get
caught up. In what I think is an inevitable walk away. Or
pullback from the insurify to internet all around.
Adam Curry: Can the title of this episode be and should
ification
Dave Jones: I think it should be yes. Robert's Rules of orders. I
vote I make an MA so. Yeah. So the fully and certified internet
is going to make people walk away from it. Yeah, I think
that's already happening. There's no other explanation on
a large scale for some of the things we see. Now, now some
some things are just sort of like a downturn, their
financial. But I think post let's start with this. The
pandemic broke everybody's brain.
Adam Curry: Oh, we're all very, very traumatized by it. Perhaps
we're broken. Yeah. We're broken people.
Dave Jones: We are in in the brokenness, I think is
manifesting itself. What one thing you've seen is massive
travel. People are vacationing, they're getting away from in
mass getting away from the internet more. I've done this
this week. The last two weeks. I've had times like I would
qualify myself as a heavy podcast listener. Yeah, I'm
probably listened to, I don't know, two to three hours of
podcasts a day. Minimum. And I've that has changed for me, I
find it very, I'm finding it more and more difficult to
listen to that quantity of podcasts. I just want to take
the earbuds out and go and go do something else besides plug into
sort of the technology. And it's like the the internet needs the
internet is going to eventually become like, like the like your
electricity provider is just going to be a thing that you
need for certain tasks, but you're not going to live on it
like you used to. Right. But because we were just I think
we're adapting to what this thing is now and so we don't
want podcasting in general to become wrapped up in this I
think was driven the frustration now with technology. Try you
know try just doing something simple. And then it's like
somebody brought me this morning on an iPad that they they bought
a new one they want to they want to just set it up like their old
one. banging my head against the wall. This is should be a simple
process. It was like it took an hour and a half. Yeah. Oh your
passwords now you forgot your password. You gotta reset.
There's got to reset that. To get oh, that didn't work got a
bubble. It's like, you know what, at that point, there comes
a point of frustration where you're just like, you know, I
don't even want an app anymore. Just forget, I thought I did.
This is not worth it. This is not making my life better. It's
making it worse. Right? And so this walk away sort of, from
things. The the advertising base podcast industrial complex, is
if it's going to velcro itself, to the insurer edified internet
in a way that when people walk away, they're going to walk away
from podcasting, also. And that we don't want that. And if we
are not careful about driving the technology to levels of
complication, and going too fast, then we're going to also,
you know, we got a Velcro suit, and we're going to jump on that
thing, too. And we don't want that either. No, there's no,
just stay on it. Yeah.
Adam Curry: And that's a real danger. I agree. It's a real
danger.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we don't want people like, Julie, to be like,
hey, you know what, screw this. I've spent all day on this. And
I can't even get on I wrote
Adam Curry: in the 10,000. I wrote 10,000 words.
Dave Jones: 1000 words, and I still don't have a lightning
payment. I can't I don't know how to open a channel. You know,
this is we don't want this
Adam Curry: no stuff stuff she should never have to deal with.
You're not a banker.
Dave Jones: Right? So I think the answer really is a general
slowing down and focusing on the quality on tightening up the
things that already exist. And in enhance, you know, making
this thing work, making it away, because we still have podcast
hosts that have only done transcripts. They owe them that
they haven't taken step two,
Adam Curry: by the way. I mean, it's what's really funny is I
realized, that podcast mirror, which is the blueberry service,
I realized they have entire instructions on how to value for
value, enable your SoundCloud feed. I mean, it's like I don't
even want to tell people about that. But But I mean, how cool
is it, you could literally hook up an Albea wallet, to your
SoundCloud today and add an add it to the index and you're good
to go. I mean, that's another way of onboarding. But I, I I
have learned like No, no, that's not a good idea. We want these
people, these podcasters known as artists, they need hand
holding, they need a different way of getting in. And be right
slowing down is good. I mean, we've we've we've gone so balls
to the wall with value for value in you know, I think we have,
you know, what do you what, how many feeds that we have now?
16,000 17,000?
Dave Jones: Oh, I haven't even looked at pencil long.
Adam Curry: And where do I find that? I
Dave Jones: have? It's on the it's on the index? Stats, maybe?
No, it's not. It's on the value for value page. It loads
progressively.
Adam Curry: Yeah, not have my here. I have stats. 15,004 88
Yeah. So that's haven't gotten a report from our guy, Ron, about
the growth. But I think the 50s We've gone from 15,000 to 15,015
and a half 1000 has been pretty slow. Probably.
Dave Jones: Not sure. Yeah. Yes. He Brooklyn said we should get
back to mailing out physical newsletters.
Adam Curry: I am all for it. You know, I got a catalog in the
mail the other day. You read it. It's this huge catalog of mainly
for office supplies, but they have all kinds of stuff in it. I
had an enjoyable experience. I'm like, Oh, what about this chair?
Oh, here's a cabinet. I never knew I needed it just just
thumbing through the catalog. Like wow. And I don't think
these guys probably are onto something. They're not old
school. This is new.
Dave Jones: It's I subscribe. I now subscribe to a newspaper.
Adam Curry: Alright, somebody needs to do a wellness check on
Dave. No,
Dave Jones: just it's Walter Kearns newspaper. He is a
frequent newspaper. Yeah, it's called County Highway. And it is
a newspaper of of just well written stories that don't the
in and there it's not digital in any form. You cannot get this in
digital format. It doesn't exist. It only exists on paper.
Adam Curry: Bring back zines. Now,
Dave Jones: I mean, you talk I love reading this newspaper. It
is a fantastic experience. It makes you want a cup of coffee.
Adam Curry: Yeah. ULINE is called Uline
Dave Jones: Oh, I've seen this. Yeah. The online catalog man
that well it's like a phone book. It's super fun. You can
get if you need. If you need about 7000 feet of plastic wrap,
you can they they're your they're your paper.
Adam Curry: But there's a lot of other cool stuff in there, like
a gun rack for my car like, Oh, I didn't know I needed that.
Yeah, I don't.
Dave Jones: Or one of those giant tape.
Adam Curry: Those, those are hotspots. Like, Hey, baby, I got
this huge toilet bottle dispenser.
Dave Jones: Bubble wrap this as your head?
Adam Curry: Should we thank a few people since we're here we
can because I know you need we'll have some some time
leftover after we do that.
Dave Jones: I do but but I want to. I want to say that you are
right. I just want to throw you a bone here. Say you are 100%
correct about about you've all either the thing you've always
said is 50% of our advertising dollars are working. But we just
don't know which 50 We just don't know which half you have
for advertiser is that the rest for advertising? You
Adam Curry: know, half of my advertising money is working. I
just don't know which half I don't I didn't come up with. By
the way. That's not my it's not Adam curry original.
Dave Jones: The title of this article for at age, nearly half
the data used for ad targeting is wrong. Surprise. And it goes
on to describe the complete farce that is data that is data
ad targeting one provider, that average only 44% email postal
match accuracy. Overall had, you'll see oh, no, here it is.
Average accuracy, accuracy among data providers ranged from 32%
to 69%. Wow, they don't know what they're doing now. Is this
all a big force? So thanks for people.
Adam Curry: Yes. And, and I will say value for value works
doesn't all have to be Satoshis. But as we heard Paul throt say I
just want to be easy. We have created this easy way. In the in
the new podcast app. So I was appreciative of James his
explanation, that it's just a fair ground token. Value for
value. It's it's not crypto. It's a fair ground token.
Dave Jones: Okay. corndog fun, okay. Hey,
Adam Curry: I actually take the SATs that I earned and we buy B
from Kane c capital with it. You know, I feel very powerful each
time I do that say thank you boosters. I really do. I was
very
Dave Jones: zoomed in. I can see cattle ordering their shipping
went through the roof for about two months. And then then now
it's come back down to delivery.
Adam Curry: That's a direct pass through. That's up I don't know
what
Dave Jones: happened. I don't know why when afraid when I went
from like 100 bucks up to like 400 or something. I was like,
Yeah,
Adam Curry: but if you go to if you go to beef initiative.com
You can find an exact similar rancher near you in Alabama, and
they'll ship it there'll be much cheaper shipping, you could even
go there and pick it up yourself
Dave Jones: and have to leave the house and stuff.
Adam Curry: Your truck would make so much sense driving onto
the ranch. Like hey,
Dave Jones: there's one of us. That may give me a discount.
Adam Curry: What came in during this live show for some reason I
didn't hear any pew pew is I don't know why that what
happened there. We got 5000 SATs from Eric and love you guys
trying to make my own music podcast. Thanks for the
inspiration. We need those we definitely need. Oh, just quick
little update question. Have you had any any chance to work on
the remote items stuff in the API?
Dave Jones: I started to and then I had to I had to try to
figure out if I could do this
Adam Curry: distributed distributed polling
Dave Jones: yeah the x yeah export a copy of the non sure
feature. It is right around the corner like I'm going to start
it within the next day or so as
Adam Curry: always this just go go as you can brother. I have
learned now easy slow, steady as she goes.
Dave Jones: Steady. It is it is it is right it is on the
immediate do list yes okay.
Adam Curry: 6333 from shred word who says I'm boosting for Dad
door full who is listening from the roof of Sir TJ the raffle
he's putting on a new roof for us. I and shred word I shred
word live in the top floor apartment of T Jay's house
because he's got capital.
Dave Jones: That's an Isaac Asimov book right I should
Adam Curry: Oh, I guess you're right I didn't I didn't even
connect that
Dave Jones: I Robot. That was an AI robot.
Adam Curry: Like it. Actually I wanted to play a doorbells.
We're running out of time. Dobby daSun whoa dwelve let's get
through these Dobby das 5000 SATs I've been working nonstop
on bringing music shows to RSS blue. Most of the prerequisites
are ready hoped to have it finished in two weeks time ah
Adobe does love you love you love you love you. I can't wait
to send all my DJ friends to you. I really can't that'll be
that I'm so excited by that. Adobe does send us another
10,000 sets and says Happy Birthday podcasting. 2.0 Is it
our birthday?
Dave Jones: 100 video episodes. Oh, hey,
Adam Curry: happy birthday.
Dave Jones: It's our 150th birthday.
Adam Curry: Happy birthday. And then we're sad. Oh, I bet you
know it's funny when you when you attend a party and don't
even realize this for you, as Dred Scott says 150,000 SATs to
celebrate episode 150
Unknown: Sakala 20 is Blaze only Impala.
Adam Curry: He says thanks for letting this non developer find
a way to be involved go podcasting. Thank you Drib gets
it Thank you brother so much. Thank you so much man. And
that's what came in during the live show. Oh, we got one last
one up is a donut my my jingle here it is. 777 77 We call that
a striper boost from Sir TJ the wrathful says and I love the
little Eric peepee inspired Hallo emoji there for the 7777 I
freaking hate you lines please stop. Now V four v magazines I'd
be happy to do oh he's a mail carrier V for V magazines. I'd
be happy to deliver your friendly neighborhood music
making make mail carrier wrathful doorsill Should we play
should we play this little doorbells? I think we should.
Yeah. Because I love their podcast into the door full verse
and they are just sitting around as a family as a family imagine
that it still happens sitting around as a family and they say
you know why don't we just do one of our songs live we'll just
do bloodshot lies live and we'll just sing it live and we'll play
it live and and they did and I'd like to share that with
everybody because it blew and they're in the garage like
plugged in unplug the door falls unplug one two
Unknown: it was mom and dad you're on your phone now welcome
all the voices saying that you're not too many too many
causes when you lose yourself getting known and and fine can't
believe in all the filters that you've chosen through can hide
the real inside the person that so many story lines tangled up
inside with what you think is true
I don't even grow with you now
get you get you keep telling me all these birds shot you
any livan away to see through all the broken glass to all
those Saturday Friday as the storms blew by it was just I
don't even now
because
a minor was it goodbye
You can tell them all these guys shot
Do all the promises you wasted on your youth You told so many
lies you believe it it's the truth you gonna be if that's
more important is that more important I don't even
know good bye
all these
Adam Curry: things oh yeah, other than me stepping on
yourself. Oh, it was great that shit gives me goosebumps, man.
Love it just goosebumps.
Dave Jones: It just reminds you of the old of like Eric Clapton
and blood they'll do what MTV
Adam Curry: Unplugged. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Love it, but I
love this a family. You have to do it together. The whole story
is just so good. So good. That's what I want. We need more of
that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I love it, man.
Adam Curry: And back, back to the booster grabs. Here we go.
We're gonna pick the hell out. Oh, okay. Yes, indeed. We get.
Dave Jones: We get a big one. From Benjamin Richardson and
Alberto botella. From maurices.com. these's they send
us $1,234
Adam Curry: whole Lee macro.
Unknown: Sakala 20 is Blaze only Impala.
Adam Curry: You guys, thank you so much. You keep you guys the
hosting companies, man. They do so well on keeping this rolling.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And as you know, they're the IPFS stuff in
there. They're not just insular. They're not just looking into
themselves. I mean, don't know exactly what they're looking at.
They're looking, you know, the reason they the reason that
rss.com sends us you know, $1,000 is because they see
they're they're marching beside us towards what we're just
talking about on the show. Like we've got to have a we got to
push this thing broad it's got to go it's got to go wide
instead of
Adam Curry: and I was I was just thinking you know, it's like
just jumping ahead three steps of course, but it's like that
service I just talked about or even even sovereign feats, you
know, if I could run that on my own start nine, I'd still cut
Steve and be in for 10% You know, sure. Just because it's
you know, it's not about bandwidth anymore. It's about
the creativity the service you know, the updates the upgrading
keeping it you know, the the features it's like that's how it
works about this point my my shows I give away more than half
of the value.
Dave Jones: Yeah. If you got like 20 splits in there. No,
it's gonna
Adam Curry: know so far it hasn't. That's the beauty of it.
As far as I know. Now, you know, it's it's fantastic like 50% of
most of my shows now are going somewhere else and I love it.
Dave Jones: Benjamin Richardson says, Adam and Dave we are
grateful to everyone in the podcast and 2.0 community for
all the time talent and treasure they freely give back to the
project we love what it means to be a two way loves love what it
means to podcasting podcasters and listeners from your
friends@rss.com go podcast go
Unknown: yeah
Dave Jones: see we've got and we've got an autumn a new
subscriber automatic payment $1 from Yaren Rosenstein thank you
for the subscription
Adam Curry: you yarn Yeah,
Dave Jones: we've got some booster grams for sure we got
3658 from the tone Rick, thank you Tom record it if you found
any says a value amount amount determined not to have any
associated references or messages other than things.
Adam Curry: Thank you. And don't numerology involves
Dave Jones: Todd Cochran 100,000 says he says Ask and You Shall
Receive we are working on adding more 2.0 features go podcasting?
FYI not grumpy yet.
Adam Curry: I think we played I think we read that one on the
last show actually. Might have come in live. Yeah. Might have
come in live. We did that one. possibly.
Dave Jones: Possibly. Maybe it was alive. Okay.
Adam Curry: Thank you, Josh. Thank you so much. I know you're
not grumpy yet. If Todd celebrated 19 years Oh, wait,
I'm gonna have podcasting and he's on. He's on the Todd
Cochran the you know, she's a big value for value. promotor
man, he was on that pod news weekly review. Good interview
with Sam.
Dave Jones: haven't got there yet. Oh, it's great, like 15
minutes into a certain part. He
Adam Curry: said, I'm sitting here. Listen, I'm getting ready
for the show. And he's like, I mean, alpha Valley Valley,
you've got to train your audience. And he's, oh, hold on
a second. He says, I think people just cringe when I said
that you don't train your audience. And I was just yelling
at my at my phone. You don't train your audience taught and
he corrected
Dave Jones: himself. I love the trimmer in the pores.
Adam Curry: No, but he's he he's he's he gets it. $10,000 in like
four months to blueberry podcast podcasters to value for value
with Satoshis it's pretty amazing.
Dave Jones: To see drips, God said, Did we get the row of
ducks Inception boost? 22 to 22?
Adam Curry: I'm not sure. Well, we
Dave Jones: got it through pod verse. Thank you, Dr. Scott.
Thank
Adam Curry: you so much, Dr.
Dave Jones: Jean bein 2222 through cast ematic he says if
you all could solve some of the linking and indexing of person
tags, I think that would remove some barriers of adoption by
hosts like bus route. Well, bus route does the person tag. They
do that already?
Adam Curry: Maybe it's talking about cross referencing and
linking and like how many times what other podcasts is this
person appeared on? Or do they host kind of remote Remote
Reference a remote item or not? I guess not. Yeah, I don't think
so. No. Okay. That
Dave Jones: okay, maybe Yeah, I think you're right talking about
the stuff we were talking about last week where you link between
the where you pull the remote you follow the Remote Reference
get the person from it and then pull it back in. Although
Adam Curry: if the curry.com RSS feed, technically could be a
remote item What do you mean? If my if my identity was an RSS
feed? Am I Am I taking this too far now?
Dave Jones: Oh, I see. SAE like where's the link in the the link
in the tag goes to an RSS feed? Not
Adam Curry: Yeah, I would have eyes a person. I would have a
GUID. Yeah,
Dave Jones: this is the I mean, this is this is SOP ml. Yeah.
Adam Curry: All over again. Back to freedom controller. Right?
Yes.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay. One day
Adam Curry: One day, we know we do and I know eventually we'll
wind up there eventually we're all going to be freedom
controller. Yep. In a PWA
Dave Jones: in a PWA Jean being 2222 Again, thank you, Jamie
says Busuu I think I've heard Mitch talk about the indexing of
person tags being a problem for the pod for pod verse. I think
that may have to do with just the lack of a Gu Id like a sort
of a universal identifier for the person tag which I admit is
is something you know simplicity was the was the driving force of
the the early tags and if you have to have you know if you
have to think about those things boom, but we may need to revisit
that I agree. All right. Karen is a mere mortals podcast also
2222 Road ducks nice big, big one today. To found he says Just
to clarify Adam, it wouldn't be on the mere mortals podcast but
obviously would talk a lot about V for me. Oh,
Adam Curry: that's right. No, yes. No, I'd say that would be
on the value for value podcast was mere mortals I
Dave Jones: got okay. I'm nowhere near ready to attend a
live interviews. Don't think I ever would want to actually that
seems like a nightmare of complex.
Adam Curry: Oh my goodness, it's so easy for you Kira. And you're
a great conversationalist. You don't have to edit anything.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, next week Tina's out of town let's do it
next week. We'll and we'll do it live
Dave Jones: there you go. There's your practice around the
Chris You know 19 810 says through pod verse says 1981
boost for the year Trivial Pursuit came out my wife non
trivial pursuit with the answer of Adam curry tonight from
hearing this podcast on in the in the background often enough.
She had to teach her dad what a VJ was. Oh, okay.
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, I'm a trivial pursuit question. This
happened a long time ago. That's right. Oh, are you Yeah, you
know you've got a made when your Trivial Pursuit question unless
it has something to do with your death
Dave Jones: that's no good. Yeah. Karen again for the mere
mortals podcast. He says boosting as a test for the V for
V app show running through. Okay.
Adam Curry: Okay. Tests received and worked. They weren't five by
Dave Jones: five. Franco 10,000 sets. The song on a podcast was
from cruise box. All this music. Oh, switching technology stuff
makes me think about rebooting rock cast Italia.
Adam Curry: Cruise box.
Dave Jones: What is that? Oh, the
Adam Curry: Oh, hold on Santa Cruz box.
Dave Jones: He's got a link here. Do you want me to get
this? Yeah. Oh,
Adam Curry: send me the link. Are you kidding me? This is the
song that I was singing that I couldn't find. You gotta keep
Didn't signal real quick. Yep, it was so but this was pointed
up when we had the pod that we had the podsafe Music Network
which was you know, pre V for V obviously, but see if this oh my
goodness, okay, you gotta gotta just listen to this for a second
oh my god, I can't believe I'm hearing this. This is from like,
2006 when we were thinking of rebooting the music industry, it
was all a practice run everybody
Unknown: remember, way back last summer when mainstream radio was
such a fucking
music nothing's funny. Clear Channel buggers
Adam Curry: here's the here's the hook
Unknown: now you should have heard it on a rock and fucking
just download the
podcast no one's gonna stop it. FCC to stick in
Adam Curry: the revolutions on I'm so happy I found that Oh, we
got to get that we got to get that up on value for value
someone reached out to was Lucas Lucas. Lucas I think who did
that song. Wow, man. Thank you. I needed to hear that.
Dave Jones: Did you get home did you get that bundle of ISOs I
say
Adam Curry: yes. You mean grab bag of ISOs I don't even know I
don't even know what to use is so much. I haven't listened to
all of them yet.
Dave Jones: AGIS we've done 150 episodes I went back and pulled
all the ISOs that we've played in the past we've used these
Adam Curry: yes yes my favorite was this one. I just got five
Satoshis
Dave Jones: bundled that together for you because
sometimes on no agenda you Oh show up and you don't have any
so this is you break the glass. The handle and grab a randomizer
Unknown: Oh, I love this giving people power and expecting them
to be disciplined about it is completely insane. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Thank you. I like appreciate that.
Dave Jones: Thanks, Franco. Appreciate that. Man. That's a
blast from the past comic strip
Adam Curry: blogger areas delimiter limiter
Dave Jones: 30 3015. Through fountain he says. Now the
podcast index LLC team Dave and Adam. Get unplugged with my
Slavic bro John C. Dvorak and his multimillionaire pal Andrew
Horowitz. On DHA unplugged podcast, your weekly digest of
market antics, and economic musings. It's available at www
dot d h unplugged.com. Stay ahead of the market curve with d
h unplugged. Yo CSB.
Adam Curry: Thank you CSB. Oh, I love the HM plug. That's first
one of my most listens.
Dave Jones: Yeah. In the the fact that he's still not valued
for value. Just you.
Adam Curry: I mean, they do donations. I know they do
donations. Now. No. I mean, he keeps saying hey, I should do
that. But his eyes glaze over. I'll get to one.
Dave Jones: Is he still on? Feedburner? Yes. Yeah, that's
Adam Curry: the main problem. He's on Feedburner that's
exactly the problem.
Dave Jones: He can go to podcast mirror now because they that's
that's the feed burner killer. Right?
Adam Curry: I'm going to forget it. I'm gonna suggest it to but
then he'll probably be like five bucks. Just stick it Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Is 27 F bombs
Unknown: on a podcast?
Dave Jones: Basil fill at $25 Thanks, basil. Pod verse. $50
Thank you, Mitch. much, brother. Yeah. Lauren ball. $24.20 Thank
you, Lauren. At Michigan. $10. How Mitch? Christopher
hyperbaric $10 So
Adam Curry: we need to forbid Mitch from from putting any
money in right now. He's quit his job to do this. Now. Save
it. Yeah. Three months come back in three months. Yeah, come back
in three months and three months? Yeah.
Dave Jones: Christopher Harbach. Hara Barak $10. Terry Keller $5
Chris Cohen. $5 Jeremy Kevin. All $10 Daymond Cassie Jack $15
Derek J Vickery. $21. Thank you, Derek and Paul Saltzman $22.22.
Thank you. Oh,
Adam Curry: yes, thank you all very much for contributing value
back to the podcast time, talent or treasure. Obviously, most of
the people listening are contributing with time and
talent. The treasure you heard Dred Scott he says this is a
great way for me as a non non developer to still be able to
participate in the entire process. So we really appreciate
you and everybody else. You can also go to podcasts index.org.
Down at the bottom, we have our own to read buttons. But you
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us. Thank you so much for supporting podcasting. 2.02
hours on the nose, Dave Jones,
Dave Jones: I think we need to elite I think we need to play
this up talk. Clip,
Adam Curry: we can't leave without some mob talk.
Dave Jones: It's a new version of a talk. Like it's not just
your straight normal talk, oh, this is sort of it starts
normal. It's a bad this is a clip about how podcast
advertising is all BS, it doesn't work okay. But then if
you notice towards the end, it begins to become like a sine
wave up talk where sine N and N and N and O okay.
Unknown: And I run the E commerce business but also all
of our growth marketing and had been there three and a half
years so pretty long time and I'm super excited to be getting
kind of back into the audio space after a while. I think for
the last call it eight years or so I've been at companies where
we've kind of been limited with budget and availability to grow
in channels. And I think we're at a time right now where even
if we don't have incremental budget I think all of us
probably feel pretty comfortable pulling from Facebook and and
reinvesting in other places. And so I'm super excited to be
working with this man oh
Adam Curry: man, that is a sine wave. It's like a very low hertz
though.
Dave Jones: What it for it is happening everywhere.
Adam Curry: What company was this young woman speaking of?
Dave Jones: I don't remember. Don't remember she basically
said nothing works with it and nothing works. But Facebook has
Adam Curry: rollercoaster That's right. Eric P pace. Brother.
Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day. I
know it's a really tough time workwise it's busy and and for
giving up your lunch. I still feel bad that all you had chips
and onion dip. There you go and your hands are all greasy. And
now it's on your keyboard and as discussed I did have
Dave Jones: a beef shake though. wrangled one of those beef
shakes and Tredwell.
Adam Curry: Nothing like beef shake. Thank you very much chat
room. Thank you boardroom for being here for podcasting. 2.0
our anniversary 150 episodes. Looking forward to the next one.
We come back next week. We'll do another board meeting right here
podcasting 2.0
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.org for more information.
Adam Curry: We need to listen and love each other more.