Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0 for October 27 2023, episode 150
to drop the talk. Hello, welcome to podcasting 2.0 It is time
once again for the official board meeting. And we do it in
the only boardroom where everybody has a gavel everything
happening at podcasts index.org with a namespace for the crazy
chapters and all the goings on and podcasts index dot social
I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in
Alabama, my personal calm and any storm and he's high on meds
ladies say hello to my friend on the other end ladies and
gentlemen, the one and only Mr. Dave Jones.
Dave Jones: Hi on mids Hi Ahmed's low on Chapter boosts
the chapter boost thing I mean talk about I mean, that stirred
up a bunch of stuff I was not expecting. Oh, I love that he
hates chapter boosts.
Adam Curry: No, no, no, no, that's not true. I first Okay,
first of all, let's let's just let's take a breath everybody.
Dave, you're not feeling well. So but we have to give you we
have to do you want the comfy chair? Hey, once you take the
beat you want the beanbag?
Dave Jones: Like a stuffed animal.
Adam Curry: You do need a comfort a comfort animal a
comfort story to make you feel better.
Dave Jones: What they call is emotional support emotionally.
Yes. Yes. Emotional support.
Adam Curry: Bear. Exactly.
Dave Jones: There you go. Every all I have is an emotional
support. Beef shake. And it's not it's really cold and not
very fun to hold on to.
Adam Curry: All right, yes, I'll take I'll take this one. I've
been preparing for this one for for a week.
Dave Jones: The chapter boosts envision envision me behind you,
rubbing the shoulders smack in the arms getting you ready.
Like, you know,
Adam Curry: this is this is really, really good. We learned
so much. Now, first of all, these only really happened on my
feet. So, you know, it was amazing to see how far people
took this as we are doing and we're this and we shouldn't be
doing that. And this is ruining everything. And it's like hold
on us. It's just a couple of feeds I maintain. It's not the
end of the world. Nothing has changed. It is though it is the
spec has not changed. Know, what we learned and what I learned
which let me just back up and explain what what happened for
people who are new. Based upon an ad hoc idea, John Spurlock
put together the reflex service, which enables you to reroute or
route booster grams that are sent to a podcast or to an
episode to be rerouted and added to the currently an existing
chapters file with timestamps and they will show up in the
chapters interface, I'm going to call it that for a specific
reason. Chapters interface, yes, because there's two pieces, two
chapters. And this is what I learned. And I'm and I have to
say, I am incredibly happy to learn. Not just that people love
chapters, but that they use them. This was, to me was really
not well known before all this. But there's there's two, when I
say chapter interface, there's what I what I love is chapter
images. I love looking at, I love you know, if I'm driving in
the car, or from just listening, I typically don't if it's a show
that has good chapters, I want to see what images come by so
mere mortals, you know, chyron does great images. And I, to me,
it's like a it's a an extra dimension to an audio podcast.
So to see images come by, and then a boost a booster gram with
a message and then another image of delightful what I personally
never use. But what I think chapters are used for the most
is the table of contents. This is what it screwed up that the
Table of Contents people use to come back to a podcast,
particularly some of the longer ones that that I that I produce
on feeds where people like or to skip certain segments. I think
people use it for that as well, which obviously I'm not a huge
fan of but I understand it and chapters are in there for a
reason. So suddenly, I want to I want to skip this topic. I want
to go to the next topic, so that it works incredibly well for
that. So putting in the booster grams that show up in the table
of contents of chapters, which people say is chapters, no
chapters is a chapter object. I went back I looked at the spec
and I learned something about the spec that chapter object is
ID booster grams with a timestamp are completely valid
as a chapter chapter object, but not in the way people, people
use chapter table of contents. So luckily, with the foresight
of some brilliant people, I don't know exactly who there is
a extra little option you can set, which is to see equals
false, it is true by default, or if omitted. So, in moving
forward in this experiment, and I still consider it to be
experiment, I asked John Spurlock to immediately label
all booster grams as TOC equals false, so that they will not
show up in the table of contents and therefore will satisfy
everybody who had an issue. And it's it's 100% of the negative
feedback was about not the chapters, the table of contents.
Yes. Now, of course, exactly 0% of apps have implemented that.
We're all busy developers, and we all you know, we all have
stuff to do, and it works. And that's fine. We don't have to
look at it. Oops, what do you mean? Oops.
Dave Jones: Well, nobody oops, that nobody did full implemented
the full spec.
Adam Curry: Oh, no, that's okay. I mean, I
Dave Jones: didn't expect Yes, it's totally not a criticism.
No, no, thanks all the time.
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. So based upon a lot of feedback
that I got, because they're my feeds, so I got most of the
feedback. And, and, and most of it, that was negative was
extremely negative, very negative, but it was really only
about the Table of Contents, not about the images that fly by the
images that you would see on your car system. If you're using
an app that does CarPlay or, or Android Auto, which I find
delightful. Then to me, that is I love those chapter changes. I
don't use table if that's not true, even I think on one or two
shows may use the Table of Contents. But it's typically so
it'd be like, a good example would be partners weekly review.
If I'm really bored of the interview, then I'll then I'll
say, okay, boom, let me get past this. And I can easily find the
next spot. And I heard that perfect example. Yeah, the same
thing. And I would totally understand if, and there's all
different, every app responds in a different way. So some, you
know, we don't have to get into it, the table of contents should
be holy. The table of contents
Dave Jones: is for skipping yes through is for skipping to the
end of somebody who's talking about brand uplift strategy.
Adam Curry: That's the only reason for it. It's only for
that. So in my mind, and this is what I would propose the that it
seems like so. So what happened was very interesting, because
there was a very long thread. And it was like, and it got into
cross app comments. And we should be showing these in
different file and all this. No, no, I disagree with all of that.
This is just another chapter object. It's a valid top to
Chapter object, because it's based on a timeline. And it has
data, it isn't, it is invalid as a table of contents. vitam. So
it seems like it wouldn't be a huge, I'm speaking for every
developer in the world, hey, it's easy. Just put it in TOC
flow, you know, filter that out, pull it pull request, yeah, do a
pull request, it's done. I would like to add to that something
that was in a thread that you are on for future uses. And that
will be type equals, because I totally see where there could be
many different types of chapter markers that do not belong in
the table of contents. That actually, again, I feel that the
chapter images what rotates on my screen when I'm listening to
I particularly like it with music shows. When you're hearing
a song, boom, the album art changes, boom, then the next
song that's very enjoyable to see that which is why radio
stations do it RDS does this all the time you drive and you see
the album change. This is a very normal, very, very well
understood type of interface for it for listening. You know, not
all cars or apps are compatible, but I see the work that's being
done. I think pod verse has done a lot of work on that. So I
totally see. A type equals as a valid addition to the spec that
should be considered. But I but the issue it. And I never
thought it's the weirdest thing. I finally understand part of
Dave Winer because Because Dave Winer would say, Oh, your app is
broken. Because it doesn't know how to how to filter out a TOC
equals false. Now he wouldn't have this whole conversation
behind it. Because you've probably been, he would just
say, your apps broken, your app is broken, it's no good, your
app is no good, without giving any explanation. So I would I
would love for the poor podcast apps to, at minimum, filter out
the TOC equals false chapter markers so that sanity is
restored to the universe. But I would also like to continue with
the showing booster grams in the chapter system, because I like
seeing it, I think people who send booster grams like seeing
it, you know, it's fun. And with the type equals, you know, it
can be used for, you know, it can be used in different pieces
of an app interface. And we could come up with more types of
Chapter images, which when you think about it, this is really a
third dimension, as I said, where it's an additional
dimension to podcasting, certainly in automobiles, that
hasn't really gotten a lot of love. But I but you know,
because, you know, even the idea of of rotating images by itself
is relatively new. But it's it's well understood in automobiles.
So we could have all kinds of new things popping up there. And
I think a type equals is something to consider.
Dave Jones: The Yeah, so let me let me add flavor text to what
you're saying. Because I think that or not, I don't really, I
think I think your instinct is correct you the TOC. Toggle is
already there. True False. That solves an immediate issue. If
you implement that, that sort of gets you over the hair on fire.
Oh my god, what are these things do it in my chapters? So that's,
that's that's there. I want to add some flavor to that though,
because there's not is that a douchey thing? If I say I want
to add some flavor that's all said enough. I realize that
sounds kind of like a douche. Are you wearing
Adam Curry: cargo pants when you say it or not gonna hit mute or
shorts on because No, you're in your underwear? Aren't you?
Okay, stop. We don't We need no visuals. Are you streaming
video? Can we see you on? The no agenda to buy? Yeah, okay,
Dave Jones: I'm gonna let me let me back that up. Okay. Let me
add some, some some color.
Adam Curry: Racist. Yes. Okay.
Dave Jones: This is no dairy down here. The type. So the TOC,
really, it solves this problem, but it's not the intended
solution to this problem. Like, you know, and this is, this is
part of this, this happens to all specifications. You you
start where you know, you, you know, you start where you know,
but it's like, Okay, here's the things we have in front of us.
And if you go too far, and try to envision everything that
could possibly come in the future, you get it, you'll
you'll inevitably get it wrong and eff it up. So you really
have to start with what is right in front of you. And that's
that's kind of what we did is like okay, we have two use cases
we have standard chapter modeling which is what has
always been there in like the ID three tags in the in the in in
the audio file and all these all these different chapter formats
like that that's like your baseline we you need to have a
table of contents for different content sections within the
episode. But then we also had this other this other idea of if
T of having the chapters be editable by the crowd, which our
crowd consists of drips got. I mean, like the crowd, the entire
crowd,
Adam Curry: one drip Scott is Drebin to drip Scott's a crowd.
Dave Jones: Yes, yes. So but but the idea there cloud cloud
chapters is what enabled something like this thing to
have to happen. Yes to be get in with. Yeah. So we have last time
I checked a couple months, you know, like, couple of months
ago, we had like, around 13,000 listeners to this show a month.
So I guarantee you some people have no idea what we're talking
about the worst simply talking about when people send a boost,
should it show up as an event, a time marker in the chapters of
the show? So without cloud based chapters, things like that
wouldn't even be possible. Correct. So that's the two
things we know. We have, we know that. You need chapters,
attached chapter bookmarks within the file within the
episode, and you also needed them to be editable. Now there's
this other thing that came in from the TOC thing actually came
in from when we imported the format from the previous
namespace right. Now it was it was Frederick Buurman. He has
the he had this app, this Mac app called Chapter The Mac
chapters, I think is what was called Oh, basically just what
in he had, he had a JSON format already. And ours when we looked
at them, it this is like God, this is like three years right
in the beginning. Yeah, right. In the beginning very early.
Yeah. So we looked, we found this sort of prior art, if you
want to speak about JSON cloud chapters, where he was saying
where he had this format that long almost exactly matched the
format that we had been working on, right? So it's like, okay,
well, why don't we come by reached out to him? And like,
why don't we combine and make these formats? mesh together?
That way, we immediately have a tool that already produces this
format, which is your tool. And then you pay, we can say, okay,
hey, you won't cloud chapters go and use this tool. Now, this is
before hyper capture. And so then he had in there, this idea
of this table of contents flag, which ended up but you look at
it, oh, that's a great idea. Sometimes you want to have a
marker that happens in the chapters. That isn't visible as
a bookmark, but it's good isn't isn't event placeholder almost.
So you could imagine something like a location tag or a or a
picture change, right?
Adam Curry: Yes, exactly. Or the an ad or a or sponsor message?
Or could be, you know, a an MK Ultra zap? It could be yes. If
you look at it, then you get you get mind controlled any of that.
Yes.
Dave Jones: All valid. And so then that so this, this idea of
having a table of contents, a table of contents, visibility
flag, true false, was very appealing. So we'll Yeah, let's
pull that right, in. That, that is, that's what the intent was
to have invisible things show up only in the podcast UI and not
in the chapter Table of Contents,
Adam Curry: which is what and that's the disconnect, just to
add some color to your color. When people say color, when
people say you mess chapters up, what they're saying is you
because I they sent me screenshots. No one sent me a
screenshot of the UI of a square image and saying this is messed
up now. They said, I can't skip ahead. I can't find where I was
all. Absolutely one. I'm going to say it 100% Correct feedback,
correct feedback? That's completely correct. And that
table of contents to me, the literal is the table of contents
of the content of the podcast.
Dave Jones: Right. But here's where I don't think that
ultimately the Table of Contents toggle, I think this is a short
term fix that needs longer that needs a correct fix, which is
the type parameter right. So the because the table of contents is
a hammer, you you are you are saying as the creator of the
chapters, you are saying, I don't want this visible, but
some people might want it visible. I enjoy the chapters. I
like the boosts in the chapters. I like them in the table of
contents. Huh, I enjoy that. I don't know. And I think, see,
the only reason I've can say why I like it is because it's fun to
me to actually use chapters a lot because I go back and forth.
I skip and then I go back. You know what it became for me after
using it for me,
Adam Curry: it became like a helipad. Yes. Like, hey, who
boosted what's and then you click in it to get the message.
I understand what you're saying. Absolutely. It
Dave Jones: was fun in to listen to last week's no agenda. And
then I flipped open the chapters and see all all these boosts in
there. And those boosts never get shown in no agenda. Because
they're not it's, you know, because of Jhansi Dvorak,
because it was fun to see that people are boosting and what
they were, what their messages were, and all that kind of stuff
it to me, it adds to it. I like it. But that's just me
personally, to see there. I like it. But sir, Libra hates it.
Adam Curry: The end with a with a capital H. Right. There's no
Jesus in that mofo. I hate this.
Dave Jones: And the heat, so he hates it, I like it. That tells
you that, that that tells you that the podcaster should not be
controlling whether those things are visible in my app, it should
be me that controls whether they're visible. Therefore Table
of Contents isn't the isn't the appropriate long term fix. If we
put a type parameter in there and say, Okay, this chapter
object is of type boost, then I can go and toggle a flag in the
settings of pod verse and say I want to see boosts in my
chapters. But I but in Libra can say that he does not right. And
and now it's our decision, not the podcasters decision. The
podcaster can still make that decision if they want to. But
they probably don't want to. You know, that's that's a part that
is a personal preference. Like I'm saying that I'm saying I'm
saying that you there are some things that should be controlled
from the source. And they're shown some things that be should
be controlled on the end user. And I think this is one of those
things that most of the time should be controlled by the end
user. And once we have a type parameter, then we can go in and
do this for all for other things that inevitably will pop up.
Adam Curry: So looking at the at the chapter namespace entry. It
feels like with what you're saying waypoints may be
misplaced as an optional attribute, that might be a type
equals waypoint. Instead of it being an optional attribute
equal to author title, podcast name, etc.
Dave Jones: Say that again.
Adam Curry: So you look at the chapter object. And I'm just
taking it very literal. So the chapter object has a start time
and has a title, optional image URL, table of contents, and time
and location. So location feels to me like if you're going to do
a type equals, that should be one of the types instead of a, I
don't know if anyone has implemented it as, as an
optional attribute? I'm not sure. Good question. But it
seems like you know, because that could be something that if
it's a location, and I'm looking at the interface, not the Table
of Contents, the interface they've made, it may pop up and
show me a map with that actual location, or, you know, show me
distance to that location or any of these different things, but
that are linked back. So that to me would be an X excellent use
of type equals location.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I agree. That's this. That's a good
that's a good one that then that that is probably a good thing to
ask. We need a pole.
Adam Curry: Oh, God. Oh, no, we know it was me. I'm Paul.
Dave Jones: We need we need to know if any ad developers have
any bad developers are using the location spec in there. I
suspect that they are not just ever seen it.
Adam Curry: But also I can imagine where you would have a
table of contents, but you might actually have in between two
markers, visible and thus clickable and navigatable. In
the table of contents, you might have 20 images in between the
just flipped real fast. I mean, yeah, you might you might have
video I mean, let's why not
Dave Jones: have like a flipbook the why not?
Adam Curry: Yeah, have a stick figure going, hey rotoscope
rotoscope red is hope. Yeah. And, and I really like this
because we've and again to me, I learned so much from this
exercise and thank you all for your passionate feedback,
because I really learned how important that table of contents
is for a lot of people. But I'm, I'm more like you. Were I as I
said, I kind of use a heavy Pat Oh, who boosted? And who would
they have to say? But there's that can be all kinds of
information in that that is an entirely new dimension. Now I
know. And I don't even have to look at the chat room to see
Daniel J. Lewis saying this needs to be in a completely
separate thing it has to be, but I'm what I'm worried about is we
have something that's working, it's just the interpretation of
what a chapter is, is what we're hung up on here. I mean, I'm not
hung up on it. But to me, everybody who uses chapters in
the traditional ID three tag manner, which included the Table
of Contents optional. Boolean, is using it in a very specific
way. And the display in the UI. That's where all the magic can
happen. And chapters for me, is it's an exactly what what it
says on the package. There's a title and a timestamp. It
doesn't matter. It's any any content in there should be
valid, not in the table of contents. Because we know that's
a use case, that's a use case that you know, we'd be breaking
we we broke people. People got broken from this.
Dave Jones: They did a lot more than I thought it was they have
a lot of negative feedback. I did not anticipate the negative.
I did not anticipate the volume of people that did not like
this.
Adam Curry: But I loved that because it immediately showed me
what was wrong. Within a week of I went away within days, like
Oh, I see what's wrong. I immediately pinged Spurlock, I
said, Would you please add TOC equals false to every single
Bookstagram that you put in the chapters? And you did that
immediately? It dropped
Dave Jones: the talk? Yeah, yeah. Dropped the talk.
Adam Curry: Like that dropped the talk.
Dave Jones: On Daniel, on your, you know, on Daniels, you know,
he really wants this thing to hold it to be completely
different. We're not going to rip the chapter spec out and
start from scratch, it would be so disruptive. Yeah, it's not
it's just not it's not happening. But I don't think but
that's not incompatible with what you want. See, like, in the
evolution of chapters into a font into a file that contains
lots of different things
Adam Curry: that is happening. It's a natural evolution, it's
Dave Jones: here it is, yes, it is a natural evolution, the only
thing that is the the the that's what this is doing right now,
what happened is we hit it, we hit a new use case, we see that
the spec isn't handling this in an ideal way. So now we're going
to go and add the probe, extend the spec to make it fit the use
case. So that know that developers don't have to rip and
replace all they had to do is now go in and tweak their
implementation right for this new this new town. And I imagine
over to 10 years from now, there's probably gonna be tons
of stuff in the chapters. Yeah, yes. Yes. Major and calling it a
chapter is it completely irrelevant? Right, it doesn't
matter what it's called. That's, that's only in in this document
that no end user ever sees. Right? So the, you know, the
the. So as far as Daniels proposal, Dana's proposal is
going to happen. It is happening as time goes by. But and that's
why, but you can't anticipate what you need in the future. And
go ahead and put it in now, because we would have never been
able to anticipate this
Adam Curry: case. Never, never would have gotten this far. No,
we there's no
Dave Jones: way we would have known this what happened three
years ago. So you just have to respond. You just have to
respond to this thing. And I think the spec is the format of
the file is flexible enough to handle. I mean, if we do it in a
responsible way, is flexible to handle tons of stuff.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Which I think is what Daniel was talking
about, and I can And I can envision several use cases and
again, brought to you by messages sponsor messages
scrolling lower thirds. I mean, this could be an entire new
interface for the people that pretend they watch podcasts
instead of listen to them might actually enjoy. You can just
have to have you and me a picture of you and me animated
with headphones on in front of me. I like like Dame Jennifer
does for animated no agenda. I mean, you could do all kinds of
stuff with that.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And so the Yeah. So that is the chapters is
it's interesting. I've been thinking this week. One thing
that we've talked a lot about is super chat. And having a
timestamped way of playing back events that happen in the
podcast, went upon playback upon later playback. So we're having
a live show right now. People are boosting, people are talking
in the chat room. You know, when you go to replay that podcast
later, that podcast episode, how are you going to pull that
information back in so that it looks like what you know what
YouTube does during during a live broadcast, when you watch
the replay, right, and you have the comments coming in the
boosts whatever they call from chat, the super chats come in.
Like, that's always been the kind of a dream, a dream and a
complicated build out, you know, you you go back and forth. And
you say, well, maybe we could do it this way. Maybe we could do
it that way. And this is the first time I've seen something
that sort of meets that, that go on, because now what you do is
you take you take it, you can take this and drop it into a
super chat. And now you are sort of replaying the events back as
they happen. Totally. You could. Here's what I'm saying. And this
goes along again with Daniel's proposal. Now you're using the
chapters file, not as the podcast app could use it. The
podcast app could use like pod verse or podcast guru could use
the chapters file for displaying Table of Contents. A replay of a
Super Chat version of this live show could use it and just
ignore the cont the cloud chat the table of contents and only
show the boosts you can do. It's it's sucking out whatever it
needs. And if you make that
Adam Curry: user definable, that's even more fun.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and then so here's so let's go further with
this. In order to make that happen, we could in order to
make that more reliable, what we could do is I'll also add a UTC
timestamp into the boot into these boosts. So that when the
boost comes into the chapters file, it comes in with the
original timestamp of when the boost happened,
Adam Curry: I think reflex is already doing that. It says this
boost was sent six hours 32 minutes after the show was
released.
Dave Jones: Okay, so that if I'm looking at I'm looking at it
right now. That's what I saw wrong raw JSON of one of, of one
of our episodes. And there's not what we need is a property like
a ctoc False. What we need is another property it and this is
just me spitballing Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we, if we had
another property that was like this, like, let's call it
universal time, or you know, UTC colon, and then a Unix timestamp
of the UTC of the moment that the boost happened in in real
world time. Then, if you had that, then when you play it
back, you can say okay, the lava event started at this moment.
And then the boost happened at this moment and you just do you
just diff the seconds out and know when to show when to show
it the other than the start rather than this because the
start time. You may not always match.
Adam Curry: Right universal right and and that goes for
shows that are recorded live before a dead studio audience.
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah. So I mean, you know, these are these
are all spitball ideas, but this is the idea. This is. To me.
This shows the power of what's possible with with doing this So
I'm with you. This is fantastic. I mean, this is the spirit of
what Daniel want. And yes, I think it's, you know, it's
happening naturally.
Adam Curry: So Daniel says in the chat room, why separate
booster grams from comments? I know, I would I want to say
right now, this has nothing to do with comments. I agree. Cross
app comments is a spec. I implemented, I publish it. And,
and it's never taken off. For whatever reason. There's, I
believe there's multiple ways to do it, not just activity pub,
I'm I'm publishing to activity pub. It's in most of the app
somewhere, or some of the app somewhere. And for whatever
reason, it hasn't taken off. I disagree fundamentally, with
putting comments. These are not comments, booster, grams are not
comments, they're booster grams.
Dave Jones: Maybe I took his comment to mean, wash it and
they go not in the chapters file. But then this other
comments file. There were comments thing, instead of the
chapters? And that's, that's a messy answer. But I think that
the the issue for now, is that chapters are something people
use comments or something that they do that nobody uses. Right?
Adam Curry: Yeah, for whatever reason, for whatever reason, you
know, it's just it is what it is. If there's anything, then go
with
Dave Jones: what works, I mean, like it when people tell you,
you know, you can't make people use the thing. Now, and when
people, you have to, you have to, you have to get like skate
to where the puck is, instead of, you know, trying, instead of
trying to always go for the goal, I mean, for your idea of
what the goal is going to be. Ideally, ideally, all of these
things would be distinct streams of data that are coming in and
accessible at any period of time. But the podcast apps, I
mean, it's a struggle just to get the podcast apps to support
chapters, that we have a good batch of apps that do support
chapters, that
Adam Curry: almost every single one supports them. This point,
oh, yeah, this is what's so beautiful about it. It's an E,
it's easy. And, and that's what I that was what was so powerful
to me, is without the app developers doing a single thing,
we made it worse.
Dave Jones: They got it, they got they got a they lost a star
for free.
Adam Curry: It was, you know, it was it reminded me of one of the
biggest complaints that I hear that I find so sad, is people
say to me, you know, I tried that to fill in the blank app
out there. And it gave me an ad before the show that I was
listening to. Yeah, you know, and so the apps get blamed for
these things. And, and, of course, in this case, it has
nothing to do with the app, it has to do with you know, with a
with a hacking away, but a completely valid hack. But I
pissed off my audience. And I And of course, I think in
general people, you know, the apps got blamed in an odd way,
even though most people who complained understand that,
like, you know, whatever it is, this sucks. But, but but I
really, really evaluated what was going on. And I we don't
have to hash over it again. But I think this is this is an
excellent idea. The quick fix for everybody is to see equals
false is now being published. And I say that with the utmost
respect, because I'm not a developer, and I know you have
to publish a new version. There's all kinds of stuff that
goes on with that. There's not It's not like, you know, presto,
it's done. It's fixed for everybody. No, yeah, it's a
pain, it's definitely a pain. So perhaps we can we can add to
this the, you know, get an all in one, go and start with the
type equals as an addition to the spec. So we can at least put
a couple of things in there. So booster ground would be one
location would be another so that we can at least start to
build out our list of things that can then be parsed out and
the app can either decide to let the probably let let the user
decide what they want to see or determine how they want to show
it. You know, it'd be easier if like, Oh, this is a booster
gram. I think it's cool. If in my app, it shows up this way.
Whatever that may be. But I think we can really build this
out so chapters to me is just you know, The table of contents
is clear it's defined the what a chapter marker is is blue skies.
Dave Jones: But yeah, that's it. Reading from rules for standards
makers remember which is the develop the developmental bible
of podcasting 2.0. If pressed if practice deviates from the spec,
change the spec in writing the spec for RSS oh point nine one,
I found that a lot of the limits imposed by the earlier spec were
being ignored by developers. So I left those limits out of the
point 191 spec, nobody complained. Right? That that's
that's the thing. You can't force developers to do anything.
You have to watch what they do. And then adapt your desires to
meet the reality of what they are doing. The defense is wrong.
Thanks. Like Rand Drescher. You got like a completely wrong the
defense he's wrong.
Adam Curry: Wrong. That's that's what's your face from? Ticking,
ticking, ticking my cousin Vinnie. Yeah, okay. Marissa,
Marissa Tomi. So, so, to me that, like, we learned a big
thing. I'm incredibly happy, we learned this. I love that
everybody gave such Animated Feedback. And to me, I think
this is a much bigger turning point than we all realize,
because we have the framework. Now we can expand that. And, and
the sky is the limit. And I'm going to revisit Daniel J's
proposal for all the other stuff that's in there. That can become
a type A type of Chapter object. With the quick fix being
respected, toc equals false.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And that's and that, that should be in there
anyway. I mean, that kind of that. That's, you know, that
should is a dirty word. So I try not to say that, but that I
mean, if you it is part of the spec, and has been there since
the beginning. So it, it is a good idea. I won't say should it
is a good idea to follow the full spec and support TOC.
Adam Curry: Right? And we and we know that this can happen
because we went through a couple of weeks of everyone upping
their game on to V's same thing, you know, people are sending
basic info, not everyone. And we have that lovely grid that
Spurlock put together. So there's, you know, there's a lot
of unfortunately, a lot of work to be done. But you know, we all
get up to speed. Man, we're really, we're really good
cooking with gas, as you would say.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think it's I think this has been a learned
this has been a great learning experience, because we we don't
know what all can happen. Here. This is like I said, while good.
This is a thing I was not prepared for to see. Then I saw
it. And I loved it. Then saw that other people hated it. And
the whole thing was just, it was just vast. It was a fascinating.
Like, experiment.
Adam Curry: Like yes, wonderful. Yeah, I agree. It was it was
like a real aha moment. Then for me, as I said, like, wow,
people, you really rely on these chapter markers. That's a huge
deal. Now, I had no idea. I've always wondered, you know, how
much people care about chapters will now we know. He's very
passionate, very passionate. Very, very passionate. So Okay.
Cool. I'd like to move on to another topic here. For a couple
of reasons. The headline is, Spotify is changing how it pays
artists with a new streaming royalty model.
Dave Jones: Oh, I thought you were going as I thought you were
gonna go to Spotify as profitable high five.
Adam Curry: Well, I mean, yeah. Okay. If you take out costs,
payroll taxes, yeah. Okay. Operational profit. The headline
reads is very cute. But no, if I really look through all the all
the podcasts Industrial Complex news from this week, what I'm
seeing is advertising is up, but it's really only inserted stuff.
And that's like, it's 15% of all advertising. Ed, what it tells
me is, advertising sucks. Things are not going well with the
podcast industrial complex, my personal opinion. And I'm not
sponsored by Spotify. So, to me, that was actually Paul throt,
who had a pretty good breakdown. I'll put the link in the show
notes. He says this is a very interesting way of of of
reporting profit.
Dave Jones: Yeah. If we If we suspend for the moment the idea
that profit is having more money at the end, then you did all
Adam Curry: your fu paid your mortgage and all that.
Dave Jones: Yes, yes. If you take that out for the moment,
then yes, they were profitable.
Adam Curry: Now, of course, you have to add to that they fired a
lot of people that and literally the, the EC and the CFO were
saying, Well, you know, we reduced the excess fixed
expenses, which is always people, and we raised our
monthly rate. Okay, so yeah, so you got a little bit of a
difference there. But I but just skipping over that, because it's
more interesting to me, in light of remote item and value for
value music shows, which I want to talk about for a second. So
this, and billboard kind of put a negative spin on it, but it's
easy to see the negative spin, I'll just read the opening
paragraph. Spotify is changing how it pays artists new
streaming royalty model, a new threshold of minimum annual
streams that attract must meet before it starts to generate
royalties, the threshold, according to en BW, I don't know
what that is, Will music business worldwide Thank you
will D monetize tracks that had previously received 0.5% of
Spotify is royalty pool, which I can only imagine is a very large
amount of people who are just putting stuff up there and
hoping that something happens from financial penalties for
music distributors and labels when fraudulent activity on
tracks when they have uploaded to Spotify has been detected. So
they are now admitting that they're scamming going on
surprised as gambling going on there. And a minimum play time
length that non music noise tracks such as bird sounds, or
white noise must reach to generate royalties. So I asked.
I asked Julie Costello to respond to have a quick text
from her. This is my trick with her, I send a question on text
message. So she's limited. The thumbs. So they've been talking
about this for some time. Theoretically, this would help
artists like Aynsley, quote, a professionally aspiring artist
who gets lost in the 100,000 tracks a day noise. I really
can't give an opinion until it's in play interpretation. I
believe it when I see it, they've been talking about
artists first for years. Yeah, the music business has always
talked about artists first. But we have not experienced any
artists first relationship with either distributors or Apple
music players, the label still holds the purse strings. So they
get the attention without a deal or label, we won't get noticed.
And I think that's true. And this plays right into the, I
think the opportunity that has just been exploding of value for
value music in podcasts, which you can call a music show or
whatever you want to call it. The other day, I just, I played
one track in encouraging the keeper, we've played a track
before. And RSS blue is the first out of the gate to include
this in their hosting service. And I was I was hoping that I
know that there was an interview done that Sam did for podcasts
weekly review, but for whatever reason, it didn't make it into
the show. But Dobby Das is announcing it today. So I want
to make sure that we help him. And I'm going to start sending
music over there. I went through a demo account. And it's a very
it's a very cool way to have you seen it was a very cool way that
he did on this not saying yeah, so he was second when there's
actually a link. So the way he's he's done this is he has the
music lookup, which is very similar to what Steven B did
with split kit. He has the music lookup so you can look for an
artist you can then tag him book okay, this is this is either
before you make the show or after you've recorded the show
either way doesn't matter if you do it before you do the show is
very similar where you get a you can download all the tracks it
zips it up for you so you can download them and then put them
into your show. And the way he's done the interface for adding
the value time splits aka the magic wallet switching
technology is through the chapters files, surprise,
surprise, just just to make things more interesting. So you
so you download the chapter file a JSON, which then has all of
those tracks inserted, and then you upload and I may be saying
this wrong for the flow. But basically, you can upload your
chapter file which will include all the VTS time splits in there
and you can add it to an existing chapter file. So if you
know that does it doesn't mean it has to dominate your
chapters. And then you manually enter the time to start Time,
and I think the end time of each song. And then you publish, and
it has the value TimeSlips baked right into your feed. Yeah,
there's no, there's no step six.
Dave Jones: Oh, okay. That's, that's an interesting way to do
it.
Adam Curry: Well, I liked it, because chapters are familiar.
You know, are familiar for two, basically, you're uploading a
chapter file, which has been semi created for you. And then
you can add to that, or do whatever you want. And then you
just have to hit the time codes. Yeah. So it's in a process that
his customers already understand with the chapter file just now
with the addition of music and setting the timecode.
Dave Jones: Okay, so that that just makes it Where are they?
It's not a new thing to learn for them. They already kind of
Yeah, exactly. Already. Exactly.
Adam Curry: Exactly. And I'm going to be sending people over
as of today, because I got deejays banging on my door, who
already have produced shows and they're ready to go. And I told
them, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Halt? Yes. So
I think that's dynamite. And in general, what and of course,
he's very nimble, because you know, smaller Adobe Das is doing
is he just knocking it out of the park? Man is fantastic. The
stuff he's doing
Dave Jones: this? That's it? Yeah, this this is I'm sorry, he
Adam Curry: just he just boosted n times for value times points
are calculated based on audio duration. Okay. So you're gonna
have to do the start time it does the end time
Dave Jones: automatically pulls it pulls that information from
it.
Adam Curry: Exactly, exactly. And it does, you know, in the
chapters, you have nice little Albemarle, the link to the
whatever is in the link of the of the value time split. And as
I said, you can add it Oh, yeah, you can set the value the share
value. Just like just like the big boys do it. It's it. Yeah.
And you can add one, basically, you can edit the chapters, and
you could set that in yourself. You know?
Dave Jones: So where's the I guess the lookup is using the is
using us? I guess?
Adam Curry: Yeah, I think so. He has a song lookup. I don't know
if he's
Dave Jones: on dates or something?
Adam Curry: No, I think he's either. Well, he's gonna, he's
gonna boost the grandmas in a minute and tell us he's either
using directly from the API or maybe, maybe he's doing maybe
he's getting a copy and doing some more local for quicker
lookup? I don't know. Okay, thank you, by the way, Steven
Bell. In the split kit, he has now made it so that you can
quickly peruse through all the most recently added reverse
chronological order songs. So I don't have to go to five
different places to try and find everything.
Dave Jones: What do you mean, are you talking about across all
a split kit or just you.
Adam Curry: So he queries the index. So also, if it was added
from wave lake, or added from, from music side project, or
someone doing if it's in the index, it's now immediately
available in the split kit for my workflow. So my workflow is I
want to I want to check all the new songs that come in. So I
have to go to all these different places to find the new
songs. Now. There's one place for me it's a split kit. I've
been there and the most recent additions are at the top.
Dave Jones: Oh, I see. So he's Yeah, so he's looking at that's,
that's probably why he wanted to filter on recently added music
shows.
Adam Curry: Here's Dolby das paying us to give us answers.
5000 SATs again, I have a local copy of the DB to enable fuzzy
search. I also resolve fountain and pod verse track links, if
that's how DJs find their music. There you go.
Dave Jones: Low beautiful view of the DB. Yeah. The local copy.
Adam Curry: Yes. dB R dB, I guess.
Dave Jones: Is that Yeah, that must be the weekly download. And
so then he's he's making a fuzzy
Adam Curry: and he may he may be doing he may be checking
periodically to update.
Dave Jones: That's, I love that. Okay. So I love that people love
it when people grab the database and do their own thing. Yeah,
it's more. It's more decentralized than everybody
just simply pointing to us. Which which I don't mind people
using us as well. We It was while we're here while we exist,
but it is very cool to see people just grabbing the
database and running their own thing. Yes, exactly. That's a
great thing to see.
Adam Curry: I'm so tickled by all of this. I really am. It's
fantastic.
Dave Jones: Yeah, they're good. They're gonna there's gonna be
there's there's gonna be a lot of people For that, that just
stopped making any money at all once pot Spotify puts those
things in.
Adam Curry: Well, people already aren't making any money. I mean,
if they're spending money five bucks,
Dave Jones: they didn't now they're gonna get zero. Yes.
Adam Curry: So here's a question that neither of us are really
well, you're more qualified than I am. To answer, but this is one
that I've detected out there. And it's part of this is part of
remote item. And, and I'm not, I'm not quite sure, let me see
if I can frame the issue. Okay, first, I want to thank Mike
Newman profusely, because the automatic submission from wav
lake to the podcast index appears to be Mike Newman. Yes.
I had no idea.
Dave Jones: I saw I saw him in their release notes, though, we
Adam Curry: did a pull request that Mike Newman showed up. So
artists, if you know if Mike Newman is not has not added you,
you may not show up in my workflow. I may not be aware of
your music and therefore may not be able to put it into my shows.
Dave Jones: You may want to boost him so that he knows that
you exist. Yes,
Adam Curry: yes. And that seems like something that hopefully
wavelike would just do on their own accord.
Dave Jones: He's He's the distro kid of podcasts.
Adam Curry: That's a horrible thing to call anybody. You don't
want to be a distro kid of back, Mike, I take it back. So I've
been thinking and because there's this, this this
conversation of. And I think it's a lack of understanding of
RSS in general, because artists are coming to the project and
saying, Well, considering how I put I need different splits for
different songs should I have? And this is only because they
have poor interfaces and don't have per item. Value block
splits on wavelike as an example, or, you know, just a
general lack of understanding
Dave Jones: per fee per feed me?
Adam Curry: Well,
Dave Jones: wavelength has split, they do have per item.
They don't have splits per feed.
Adam Curry: So no wavelike
Dave Jones: they don't have value blogs in the feed. They
have them only in the item.
Adam Curry: Are you sure about that?
Dave Jones: Yeah, they don't they don't put value blogs at
the channel level. They only put them at the episode level.
Adam Curry: Okay, but I thought it was exactly the opposite.
Maybe I'm crazy.
Dave Jones: That's That's why their feeds don't show. That's
why their feeds don't show up. When under the new value enable
feeds API endpoint because they only value blog, the episode or
the track. They don't value blog, the feed itself.
Adam Curry: It's all as part of the same problem. At any rate,
the question is, how should music be assembled? How should
it be? How should it be connected to an artist and how
should be connected to the participants of each individual
track? And there's valid reasons to have a feed level volume.
Well, if item level overrides feed level, which is it does
right item overrides feed level i Okay.
Dave Jones: What's one of the what's the problem? Okay.
Adam Curry: Here's what I'm here's what I'm trying to figure
out. Okay. The way I see this moving forward, what I think
should happen is Ainsley Costello just just use her to
make it simple, should have an Ainsley Costello RSS feed. And
that RSS feed should I believe, have remote items that point to
feeds that either are an album or perhaps even single tracks
that if she has participated on someone else's music, but she
has a split in that, then she should be able to put that
remote item into her personal feed, because I want to
subscribe to Ainsley Costello the artist. Yes, so that when
when she releases something, or does a collaboration with
someone else, that that can automatically flow through to
her feed that that will autumn it's not happening anywhere yet.
So this is just me. spitballing as usual. Sure. I'd like to
subscribe to her in an app. And then and then I'll see okay,
here's this album or collection that has five songs in it. And
that shows up as a remote item because those splits may have to
change some somewhere down the line for recruitments etc. So I
just want to get the most Recent validate information. But also,
I think this is where it's important. If she participated
on a SAM means track, then I want to see that show up in her
feed. Yeah. But then it has to bring in the SAM means track
value block and album art, etc. is is is that the right way to
think of these things?
Dave Jones: No, I think that is I think that's a good, I think
it's a really good idea. Because you. So here's, here's how I
could see that happening, you would have, you know, for lack
of a better term since aesthetic feed me in in that I tend to use
that term to mean, a feed that just has content from other
feeds in
Adam Curry: Yes. Like an OPML file. Oh, no, we're there again,
hello, Freedom controller.
Dave Jones: So the feed is like, yeah, there's this synthetic
feed, which the most, the biggest use of this concept is
sermon audio.com. So you have all these sermons being posted
all the time, under their initial source, which would be
the preacher or the church that where they come from, but then
you also have tons of the sermon audio podcasts. That's a
separate podcast feed, but it's just called something like
forgiveness. And it's, it's just got episodes from all across
their catalogue of sermons that are being posted, that are
tagged with that with that keyword. And so it's just
pulling in, you've got you've got the original feed, it came
from over here with that sermon in it. And now you've got this
forgiveness, synthetic feed that's also got that same exact
sermon in it. And they're pulling from that. And so like I
had to discuss, like, Todd posted on the on the mastodon
this week. He's like, I'm having trouble understanding what the
point of remote item is, outside of the context of a value time
split. In the concept is exactly
Adam Curry: this. Yeah, it's a symlink.
Dave Jones: symlink Yeah, exactly. It's it's an alias an
Adam Curry: alias for those of you from the Mac world?
Dave Jones: Or are a hyperlink and hyperlink hyperlink? Yeah,
it's just saying, hey, there's a thing over here. And rather than
me recreating it in it's good, just go get it from the original
source. You're telling you that way. You don't have to worry
about the metadata going stale or getting screwed up? Right. So
that's, that's the concept here. So you would have the word to
envision what you're saying? I was, I would say see there being
an Ainsley Costello Oh, FPP set a CNAME Yes. CNAME
Adam Curry: name is another good one. Yeah. So
Dave Jones: honestly, we could have we could have called that
the attribute. Well,
Adam Curry: you know, what it is, what this tells me is we're
on the right track because all these versions of it exist in
the computing world. So we're on the right track with this idea.
Dave Jones: The company computer science name for all of this is
is an indirect reference.
Adam Curry: And and I have to correct myself the remote item
was in fact conceived and birthed by Alex gates. I said
that incorrectly on the on the mere mortals podcast. Oh, yeah,
my three years I had the genesis of it wrong. So I apologize.
Great interview by the way, the you know, Karen's it was good
because I had just been in the car for four hours taking Tina
to the airport and driving back and I'd traffic and I jammed
down you know, to two water burgers. And then before I got
in, so we did and I even texted was like the can't do eight.
Let's do nine. So it was like 930 at night and I was tired. So
then I've just slower. I think it's better for me.
Dave Jones: It was
Adam Curry: it was very, it was I was dope, man. Yeah, very
chill. Yeah, but it was it was fun to do. I really enjoy the
content. Such a good guy.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it was on Andy laymen's podcast answers which
I've cued up. I'm
Adam Curry: excited to hear it. I saw the you know, I saw the
sound bites that were being published. You know, it was like
RSS is the gate breaker the Gatecrasher I love that. I also
used your big red button the other day. I use that on no
agenda.
Dave Jones: Oh, nice. Well, the the the my interview with him
was exactly the opposite of yours. Mine. Sounded like a
hamster. That was talking. I was all jazzed up.
Adam Curry: I'm not so sure about that. You sounded pretty
cool to me. Okay.
Dave Jones: Well, that the the idea here so is that there would
be an Ainsley Costello feed that just consists of room load items
to her actual feeds, whichever ones they are, whether it's an
album or a single or whatever, and can I make it even crazier?
Adam Curry: Please do would so there would be top level Ainsley
Costello the hustle, beautiful NZSL feed synthetic feed where
you want to call it, boom, there's an album, go tap on that
there's the tracks. Then from there, you might be able to see
music from artists, so I might be able to see Oh, there's the
SAM means song. And I can then hyperlink into SAM means or the
it was as played on booster Grand Ball. Go into booster
Grand Ball, oh, here's other tracks and the episode. If you
have like your app, all of a sudden becomes a media browser.
Whoa.
Dave Jones: I'm gonna I'm gonna support I'm going to support
you. You throw me an alley oop, I'm going to dunk it. Here it
goes. So starting from the top down in this feed, and let's
just call this what is it? This is a defeat as a playlist. Yeah.
So it at the top. It is a it is a medium type music l it's a
play. There you go. There you go. You and and it's a and at
the channel level. You also have the person tag with Ainsley in
it. Yeah. With a link to her stuff. Yeah. And a picture of
her Yeah. Then you have all your remote items have have links to
her feeds, in her tracks. Then at the end, you also have a pod
roll tag, linking to all the places that she showed up
booster Graham ball. Sam means all these different plays, and
then a bunch of perhaps, suggested albums that she likes.
Yes. to recommend to you. Yes. And that that is the fleshing
out the so what's your vision? That's what the XML would look
like.
Adam Curry: You know what it is right?
Dave Jones: Share your up email. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Yes, it is. Share your OPML always, always OPML at
the end. Are we ever gonna ever gonna get that done? Are we?
Dave Jones: Well, I mean, CRISPR I seen has a shirt that says
that on it. It's all up.
Adam Curry: I need that shirt. That's a great shirt. That's
exactly what I need. Yeah, that's
Dave Jones: okay. So now that's beautiful experience is what
that is.
Adam Curry: So the the challenge, of course, is for
feed creation interface. Which, right now the top two guys doing
this, in my mind are Steven Bell and Dolby Das. Yeah, so I'm
excited to see what they come up with if they liked this idea if
they liked this basic premise, because the app should just be
able to easily adapt to follow those, you know, follow that
that trail, like a breadcrumb. Basically, the boom in boom, in
boom, in click play, listen was here. And you're moving around?
Um, you know what that is? Discovery?
Dave Jones: Yeah, there could be. There could be apps that do
just this, you know, yeah, it really could be apps that just
do playlists.
Adam Curry: I just popped a boner.
metaphor, metaphorical metaphor.
Dave Jones: Please don't make the show title. metaphorical
Boehner.
Adam Curry: No, no, I already got dropped the talk. I mean,
that's already beautiful.
Dave Jones: Yes. I mean, that this is this is. This is the
vision. I mean, like I love this vision. I didn't because that's
how that's how you get discovery. That's how you get
organic discovery. Yes, people begin to put recommendations
into things and people not algorithms and
Adam Curry: people will stick in their apps. And it's just as you
said,
Dave Jones: put a stick in your
Adam Curry: head. It can change the entire dynamics of of apps.
You know, just like you said, you may just have apps that are
purely meant to browse through the RSS space.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah, that's, to me, one of the most exciting
tags that has come up is remote items. Well, I mean, we already
know that. That is a powerful tag that links thing that's
glue, that's a glue tag and links things together. It's
that's like DNS. Yeah. As far as a thing that's sort of
underrated. A feature feature tag is pod roll. I really want
to see people start using this. Yeah, because that is a That's,
that's a recommendation engine just waiting to happen. Yep,
totally. I mean, we just need tools for it. Because, like, I
hope Buzzsprout Buzzsprout invented the tag, basically. And
I hope that they put in something in their UI. Because
as soon as soon as they put that in there, I'm gonna start
slurping that stuff up and creating and I will immediately
create an endpoint called recommendations. And it's gonna
be nothing but pod rolls.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, like, why not? That's, that's organic
recommendation engine without algorithms.
Adam Curry: I love it.
Dave Jones: See, I've got, you know, I started to ask, started
to raise the podcasting 2.0 to threat level alpha,
Adam Curry: level alpha.
Dave Jones: What does that mean? Like, and then I saw what
YouTube came out with. And I decided no, it's not it's
different. There's no threat? Well, now we're still like,
we're still at Green. Everything's green.
Adam Curry: I somehow, it's like, it's like I'm a crack
addicts. But when I've listened to the new media show, because
like, I know, I know, I should not light up this pipe. I know
that it's going to make me puke at the end of this. Hi, I'm
going to have, but I can't stop myself from listening to Todd
and Rob argue about YouTube. Is so wasted right now, man, like,
oh, no, I'm getting sick over this crack, but I can't stop it.
And then another hit. And it was it was interesting to hear Rob,
do almost a one ad on YouTube pretty much flubbed it all. And
I don't know what's going on. But my takeaways were the
following thing that's really important. And it's something
we've talked about before, but podcasting is not all about
making money and a career. And it's, it's just not. And this
and I was thinking, you know, like, first of all, you cannot
serve two masters. You know, either you're making a great
product, and people and you can monetize that, or you're just
out for money, and you're going to make a product have to
reverse into it. This is no different than blogging, this
and blogging became micro blogging became social
networking, and 99% of all people oops, sorry, just will
not make any money on social media or blogging, or you know,
and then we went down to the lowest common denominator, which
was banner ads, and clickbait and stuff. And that brought down
the CPM to me Oh pennies and this is where podcast
advertising is headed now that we have dai and it's just it
because there's there's unlimited inventory. So there's
no scarcity. So it just, you know, there's beauty You name
it, how much do you want is not a problem, it's just going to go
it's a it's a race to the bottom. And what value for value
has done is a couple things. One, it has given people a
metric for motivational engagement and then that's very
Dave Jones: civilizational engaged it's very specific.
Adam Curry: So knowing looking at an lb wallet or a hella pad
and seeing people listening in real time. And seeing feedback
and and value being contributed irrelevant irrespective of, of
the amount of money it is, in Fiat terms is just a number.
Right? Even more exciting is to row a duck's Ben, what does that
even mean? It'd be I don't know, how much is that in pennies or
dollars or whatever. It's an it's an engagement system that
motivates people when they're doing something that they're
doing in Todd's metric is always 98 or 97% of people don't do it
for money, I believe that I think is probably close. But you
can also this podcast this very podcast is an excellent example
of a podcast that exists not to make money. It is a podcast that
exists to support a community. That's a community resource view
and I take no money out of this that goes into keeping the
community going with the with the systems that we need. We're
the reserve to make sure we stay alive and to continue to provide
liquidity and low low cost routing etc. That's that's that
this is This is a type of podcast that I think a lot
without value for value when people use to support their
hobby, their club, their whatever it is. And the podcast
industrial complex is just so insane about making money and
making money making money making money Nene, Nene Nene. And
that's not what podcasting is. But you'd think that's all that
it's about. If you if you listen to that to video, podcast, news
shows or podcasts, industry information, you know, it's all
about the advertising is up, this is up and this is up and
this is, who cares. Most people just want to do a podcast
because they want to be heard. And with value for value in the
digital sense of podcasts and 2.0. You have this beautiful
metric that makes you feel good. It's what's what what has always
been the differentiator in podcast hosting companies has
been statistics. We've got great stats. He's got real time stats,
we've got better stats, we've got stats with maps, we've got
stats with charts, and this is an unbelievable stat. Oh,
someone's listening right at this very moment. I see it every
minute they listen, I see something that tells me
someone's listening. It's much bigger than than what the
podcast industrial complex is selling people. It's a shame
really, it's a shame. Because people always say, well, but I
can be an influencer. I could do a podcast. I'll make some money.
Probably not.
Dave Jones: The podcast industrial complex is a selfless
it's a self licking ice cream cone. It is a PSP is a is a it's
really it is the it is the digital advertising industry.
With podcasting as like an add on module. Yes, they just
they've just just plugged in the podcasting on the side. If they
don't really care about a good organic discovery, sorry, sorry.
They don't they don't really care about podcasting as
podcasting. It's just another way to siphon off a percentage
of an of an advertising revenue stream. Yes. And so podcasting
itself is irrelevant. I mean, podcast consultants, they need
to get their clients into the YouTube ecosystem in order to
get a cut of that sweet YouTube money. Yes, yes, yes. So
therefore, they define a way the meaning of what podcasting is
using some sort of like George Bush, fuzzy math. And, like, you
know, I mean, like, they're not, they're no longer they're no
longer soldiers. They're enemy combatants. Yeah, we just, we
just changed the terminology. And that's good. And now
everything becomes podcasting. In this, it's a joke. And so
they do these, they do these ridiculous, inconsistent, they
did these ridiculous surveys with inconsistent results. And
extrapolate always at the end of them. This that is obviously
beneficial to be to have more YouTube. So like, you know,
they'll say, Oh, well, everybody listens to their podcasts on
YouTube. And then they'll say, Well, we know how many of the
top podcasts are on YouTube, you know, other top out of the top
100? Well, five, right? Well, then this is an inconsistent
result. This shows that your surveys full of crap. Yeah. And
like, it's the whole thing. I don't know, this kind of goes
back to this debate that I really don't want to get into.
But it's just to bring it up about whether something is quote
unquote, government funded, or whether it just gets funding
from the government. Yeah, they have in again, you know, we had
this there's this, of course, this newsguard organization is
getting sued, because they, they've taken government money
to do it to do a project for the government. And the, you know,
they did more research on this this week, and it was 20, they
had a $25,000 advance to do a pilot program to provide initial
AI work using their misinformation, fingerprint
database supplied to the Defense Department. And then the idea is
if this was a good product, and they get the full award, so
it's, it's clear to me that this was, you know, a project that
they did for the government. But you know, that there's this big
debate around whether or not something becomes quote unquote,
government funded. And, you know, I understand that. The
reason I'm attaching this to YouTube is because this is also
very similar to this idea of digital advertising, whether
something is whether or not the, the money you get from the
advertiser is a corrupting influence on the content of the
show, or the content of what
Adam Curry: you're delivering by definition. Yes.
Dave Jones: So you and you have these, there's, you have these
ideas there, it's like, well, I just get a portion of my money
from the government. Therefore, you know, it's because I
delivered such an such a project or product. And I got paid for
it. Therefore, you know, it's not fair to call me government
funded. Because that implies that I did, I'm literally I
wouldn't exist without government. And I can understand
that. I understand the distinction there that is trying
to be made. I always come back to this, there's this old.
There's this old sort of thought experiment that goes like this.
You're walking down the alleyway, you're walking down a
dark alleyway in Chicago with your wife. And you just left a
restaurant at two o'clock in the morning, you're walking down
this alleyway. And at the other end of the alleyway, you see
three figures in hoodies walking towards you.
Adam Curry: Wow, hold on a second, I think we need some,
some spooky music with this.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we're walking down the alleyway. So you're
going down the alleyway, and you see these three fingers
approaching. And they emerge out of the out of the smoke that's
rising out of the manhole cover. You can't you, you, you, you
catch your breath and your throat. And you look at your
wife and you're scared. Would it make a difference to you? If you
knew that these three, these three men just came out of a
Bible study? Wow. Of course, if the answer is, of course, it
wouldn't make a difference. It would make all the difference in
the whole world. So the idea that that you did the the QA the
the context of a thing is corrupted or determined by small
inputs like that, like a little a little bit of context, can
flavor an entire interaction. And so it's not, I guess what
I'm trying to say here is that it doesn't matter if you're
government funded, or if you're funded by the government, the
mere fact that you get your money, did you get any portion
of your money from the government taints, or gives
flavor to all of your content? Yeah. And whether it's fair or
not, it is a thing that you are going to have to live with.
Because it's, it is an unavoidable aspect of human
nature that they're going to those interpretations are going
to be made. And the same, it's the same way with digital with
advertising. If you get your money, any portion of it 1% From
an advert from advertisers, people are always going to from
time to time, not always, not always. But from time to time,
people are going to question whether or not your content has
been subtly pushed in the direction that is favorable to
an advertiser. It's an it is unavoidable,
Adam Curry: just by definition, that you're not going to talk
about a competing product. That's censorship right there,
bro, self censorship.
Dave Jones: Right. And, and, you know, I see people that fight
against this. And they they try to push, they they try to push
through it and say, Look, I'm not going to censor what I say.
And they have varying degrees of success with it. You know,
sometimes an advertiser pulls out sometimes they don't. But
the the idea there is that in both cases, the perception is
all that matters. And that's, that's what me like when those,
you know, when it's at night, and those three guys are walking
towards you. The perception your fear is determined is driven
purely by the perception of the situation. And that's always the
case perception is reality in every one of these cases,
whether that's fair tea or not, is sort of irrelevant. Exactly,
yeah.
Adam Curry: So I guess what I'm saying is what we are doing here
matters. It's important. The N value for value is not about
money per se, it's not an alternative to advertising. It
can be competitive with the with the with the payout it can be.
But at its basis, I'm just excited by I'm still excited
when I hear pew. Pew and then sometimes I leave it open, you
know, the the speaker still on I have pew and I run back. Oh, let
me see. What did they say? What's what's what's the
numerology of it? You know, and or it's never about, oh, I made
another buck. Never about that. Conversely, we celebrated 16
years of no agenda yesterday.
Dave Jones: Congratulations, happy anniversary,
Adam Curry: thank you. And go ahead and listen to the donation
segment. It blows me away. It blows me away that people, not
one not 210 Pulling $1,000 out of their pocket Happy Birthday.
But besides, besides that, what they're saying in the notes is,
you know, I would have I might have been dead. Literally, we
get that quite often, I might have been dead. If you hadn't
influenced my thinking. Where I got out of a bad situation, or
I've determined to change something in my life based upon
the way you looked at a new story. Or I'm not all freaked
out about new stories. There's a whole bunch of different
reasons. Those, that's what excites me. It really does like,
Oh, wow. And that's been that that value for value. And we
look, I don't care. Look, I don't care what you're doing. It
took us a long time to get to a place where it could support to
families. It took us years, years and years probably. Now
early days, I think it might be easier now. Because we have more
tools just in general to communicate. We didn't have we
had PayPal, that was the only thing we had. But we didn't have
we didn't have what do you call it MailChimp didn't have these
easy, easy mail, you know, a newsletter things. We didn't
have all these different. We didn't have. We barely had
social media as a thing. But it took years and years and years
and whether you're, you know, to, for it to be sustaining. And
that's you know, it's good can be done with people. So yeah,
but you had to name bull crap. Now, if anyone's go ahead and
walk around, say Adam curry by huh.
Dave Jones: It started if you had started a music show that
may have pulled over, but not for what you did. I mean, that's
you are starting from scratch.
Adam Curry: And we've never done video. Never never contemplated
it. And we're not on Spotify.
Dave Jones: But the YouTube, the YouTube podcast industrial
complex, like, just, just just don't, you know, just just don't
just don't go that direction. I mean, like, it's, and honestly,
just did digital advertising in general. I mean, just be
prepared. If that's the route you choose, just be prepared to
have always that, that perception that's attached to
your TV content. And, you know, I mean, hey, I go and I read
news, I had to figure out we had a special election in our album
House District, you know, the other day and I have no problem
going to aol.com or the local news and seeing who won the
election. That's an objective thing that I go and check out.
Not a problem. I don't think they're compromised, that I'm
not going to find out who actually won the election or
not. That's not that's not an issue. But But am I going to go
and, you know, read a piece from them about, you know, about a
local advertising, excuse me about a local business, when
that business may have been an advertiser, I'm gonna be a
little bit skeptical of that. I'm probably just not even going
to read the article. Right. So I mean that and that's what you're
that's what you're gonna have to fight. I mean, the the
podcasting is a long stay staying power. staying power is
is 90% of of podcasting. Every say I mean look at James every
single day. Yep. And you've got I mean, I, I couldn't do it. I'm
already telling you I could not do it every single day podcast
for how for year after year.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's is a real commitment.
Dave Jones: It is it is and but in the commitment eventually
does pay off, if you try to shortcut and just say I'm going
to do YouTube, yeah. You're you're just cheapening your own
product.
Adam Curry: And you and you don't have control over
discovery of you don't have control. You just don't have
control. That's right. And all of this. I love this RSS. Deep
Dive that we're doing right now the whole group. And because
this will lead to better RSS content distribution in general,
and discovery through RSS and it Yes, it will work with written
word. I mean, there's no reason why you can't have a remote item
for blogs.
Dave Jones: Totally. Yeah, totally. You know,
Adam Curry: and I think ultimately, and, and welcome
again, Andrew Gromit good to have him on podcast index dot
social, progressive web apps, you know, because that's, that's
the next thing. The actually Todd said that, you know, we
still have the World Wide Web, if anyone still knows what that
means. And I'm like, Yeah, you know, a lot of people don't.
They think they have a Google.
Dave Jones: Yeah,
Adam Curry: I got Google. I hit this button. And I searched and
I get answers. And I find stuff. But that's Google right. Now,
that's the web
Dave Jones: that that's in in the web, we forget that the web
is the the original decentralized. Yes. Like,
there's so many times where we look at these other protocols.
And we're like, you know, we think, Okay, well, this, this
protocol is going to meet my needs for decentralization.
Really, the web is the most decentralized things, that thing
that exists. But look, look at the number of aggregation points
for feeds. It's huge. It's all over the place. If you look at
the weekly stats, hosting stats dump that we do. I mean, that
thing has 2000 entries. That's it, that's equivalent to
something like, you know, 2000 IPFS nodes.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah. Is it really that many? It's 2000.
Really, that's amazing. It's a lot. That is huge. And that's
all hosting companies, individual servers, etc.
Dave Jones: Right? Yeah. Actually, let me pull that up.
I'm kind of curious. Now. Let me see if I can get to my, to the
last version of that ahead.
Adam Curry: And it's a great way to to hide it. You know. You're
so right. It is so that's so beautiful. That's all
decentralized.
Dave Jones: Well, we're gonna have we're gonna have Todd and
Mike Dell from blueberry on next week, next week, next year, next
week, so that we can talk about one of the things we're going to
talk about is their proposal for what they call alternate feed.
Yep. And, and I've been thinking a lot about it, and I dig it. I
think it's very, I think it's very useful, but they in it, it
relies on this idea of decentralizing just using the
web itself. I'm all for that. There is so yeah, so there's,
you know, you have anchor Spreaker. These are just this is
this is rent, ranked and this is these are ordered by the number
of feeds they host Okay, so currently, anchor Spreaker
Buzzsprout. iBook, SoundCloud, rss.com pod bean Lipson.
PodOmatic castbox I'm gonna get down a few
Adam Curry: you're gonna want to hear the names.
Dave Jones: Blueberry Librivox a cast cast those red circle
Islaam house Allah walk by Cambridge University Captivate
transistor hub Hopper simple cast Omni content, okay, and it
keeps going and it gives you go scroll script PAGE PAGE PAGE
PAGE all the way down so there's a once you get down to less than
100 There's just a bazillion of these things so there's what
kind
Adam Curry: of names I want to hear the names catwalk cash fly
Dave Jones: the guardian.com Listen notes. You remember they
had they have no hosting service? Yeah. My See, my I know
church.co.uk The chain how many?
Adam Curry: How many feeds from feeds.no agenda notes.com. What
is it? No agenda?
Dave Jones: What is our feed in a show notes?
Adam Curry: Is that any show notes? Yeah, probably is an
issue. How many are coming from? Seven?
Dave Jones: Yes, seven from in a show. notes.com Right. Right
after na shows.com is web geeks pc.com Catholica pedia.net
Adam Curry: This Yeah, that's your decentralized web right
there.
Dave Jones: That's it. Mockingbird network.com whenever
that is pod cast edge.com there's I mean, there's a
million of these in Mississippi state.edu. Yeah, that's That's
it. Podcasting is already decentralized. It really is. I
mean, anything we'd add to it is just sort of, it's like an it's
an overlay. Right? We're not, we're not enhancing it. And you
know, we aren't what it already is,
Adam Curry: when I think about it. You know, if you look at
like, talking about news like Google News, then wonder they
hate RSS. Because there's not enough we scrape, we organize,
and we rank it, and we show it, because that's what they do.
Now, now, that may be under the hood, I'll bet they're picking
up a lot more RSS feeds, and they'd be willing to admit, but
Google News, you know, they're, they're pulling it in from all
these sources. They want to be your news reader. And they don't
want you to know how to do it yourself. They don't want you to
do it yourself. They don't want people who are creating news or
reporting news or whatever it is or what content they don't want
you to self organize. And that's our job.
Dave Jones: But ASCII assume that the web is the web is
decentralized, it's its DNS, its URLs, its links, there's no
everybody hosts their own thing. That's the ultimate
decentralization just just just because just because something.
This is why this is why
Adam Curry: thing. No, this is why the app ecosystem was built
was to obfuscate the web. And there was never Steve Jobs, his
vision. His vision was progressive web apps. If I'm not
mistaken
Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't know those those that wasn't paying
attention to. When the iPhone came first came out, I thought
it was one of the ones that was like, Oh, this is bullcrap. This
is gonna listen, this is a joke. This isn't gonna last. Because I
was like, that's, nobody's ever gonna type on their screen.
You're gonna want to look people okay,
Adam Curry: my wife, she is the best canary in the coal mine. As
long as you do the opposite. Her two famous claims one who's ever
going to use a credit card? That makes no sense.
Dave Jones: The next one that was better than mine.
Adam Curry: The next one is cool. Want to make a phone call?
While they're standing outside? Who wants a phone in their
pocket? I love it. Whenever she says who wants that? I'm like we
have a winner. This buy stocks now? Yeah, well, good. I'm very,
the only other thing I just wanted to put on people's radar,
just want to keep it on the radar is for the live shows. You
know, the WebSocket I don't know if that's been written up yet.
As a as a part, I don't know if that's a part of the namespace
or how we do that. But I always feel super crappy. When I do a
booster Graham ball live. And people are listening on fountain
and pod verse, which has great lit lit functionality, but then
they're boosting and it's not going to the artists.
Dave Jones: I'm waiting else sort of waiting on podcast guru
and Steven B to figure out what what that spec was going to be.
But if you guys need my help, I mean, like if you if you want
everybody getting involved in that, you know, send out the bat
signal. So we all know what to do.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I mean that to me the remote item and the is
much more important but it's a part of it I guess in a way but
you know the interface is for the synthetic feeds and you
know, like the fountain is doing a good job and I've seen the
podcast guru stuff of you know, tapping in you see booster
Graham ball, you can find the song. I want to subscribe to
artists I want to follow artists. That's what I want that
you know, that's just that mean just like a podcast. I want to
follow authors for their audio books. I all this stuff, all of
it. If anybody
Dave Jones: likes metal that lightning thrash
Adam Curry: that yeah, you gotta be I gotta be in the right vibe
for that. You know,
Dave Jones: you have to get yourself jacked up for metal and
I'm ready for it all the time.
Adam Curry: Let me see what the most with the most recent shows
are. I go to my desktop web app. ln beats love. Love the desktop.
So we're still at 1313 shows that we're aware of right now.
Homegrown hits. I like that one a lot. DeLorean like home home
grown hits. And I bet Sam still a big fan of what is it? It's a
it's a mood. Yeah, it's a mood. That's cool. I get ideas for the
show from it's a mood. Let's good. Shall we? thank a few
people.
Dave Jones: Yeah, my voice is starting to go
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah. Gotta get you back under the covers
with a hot toddy. T 500 SATs hear from radio Pete boost first
ever boost Hello we've D virgin as your boost edge. You have the
main head of my boosting he says go podcasting 2.0 Not listening
live as I have my head under a grubby bath sorting out a leak
shall catch up tomorrow with board's permission of course you
can always catch up tomorrow 33,333 from cotton Jim Pugh we
got your pew Dred Scott with 5555 which is according to
Johnson of Warwick a row of swans. Oh, even though it's
valid. Yeah, even though Well, you know him. And Dred Scott
says question about the TOC. Will there be issues with TOC
Inception weirdness when using the relay and your own chapters
or hybrid chapter, hyperkinetic chapters with its own TOC? I
think the answer is no. If you mark something as TOC in your
own chapters, or I don't know if hyper capture has a toggle for
that. It'll just be respected.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it should just come straight through. Yeah,
it's
Adam Curry: going to be any problems. And by the way, via
drip, thank you for hanging in there. Some people might have
gone if this man did blip. I'm not gonna do chapters anymore.
Some people are like that. You're not. I love you for that.
Brother. Thank you for hanging in and keeping with it. Yeah,
because we're basically messing up his art right now. Which is I
take seriously, I didn't realize how much it would mess it up.
Now we know sir Sean riser, go podcasting with 1000 SATs or TJ
the wrathful with 3333 artists check with Mike to see if your
artists check with Mike to see if you're on the index or just
don't use wavelike. Use music music side projects. Thank you.
Dave Jones: It's my bell. Check with my show title is check my
mic
Adam Curry: right now and check with my
Dave Jones: mic. The pull request of the wave Les Paul
request.
Adam Curry: Sir Libra 2112 We got I wish I could listen live
unfortunately working in the Fiat mines. Thank you for all
the support. There's dovie das with 10,000 SATs. If anyone
would like to do their own RSS music show, find a link to our
guide at RSS blue on podcast index dot social. It's in the
show notes as well. Or email info at RSS blue.com. I'll help
you get started 3333 from Chad F new tracks also show up at the
top of search and LNBs Yes, of course it's part of the Steven
Bell emporium of apps. So that makes nothing but sense. There's
the two from Dobie das about the DB and the value time splits
which we read and a millennial 4200. Shout out to Eric PP and
Dave for the Hello Pat update 10 fold improvement stay on the
offensive.
Dave Jones: Oh no. I had nothing to do with this. I literally
just approved just merge pull request. Doing all of it. Yes.
Adam Curry: It's a beautiful tool. It's fast.
Dave Jones: It's basically his app. At this point. I'm just I'm
just moral support.
Adam Curry: Well, I'm loving it. I run it on Start OS and it's
fantastic. 1000 from Sam Sethi, CEO of pod fans. And he says but
boosting the boost tab. He has a boost. And if extra events put
them in a new Events tab, but leave the chapters tab alone it
makes a mess up the UI and conflicts.
Dave Jones: Well you can split it or you can split it your own
way. Yeah, exactly. It's in the same file. But when you were in
your UI you can you can just rip me a rip it out and stick it
somewhere else. Rip it and stick it
Adam Curry: to rip it and stick it 10,000 SATs from Sony salty
crayon. This is salty crayon and we know a salty crayon. Salty
crayon says how the boardroom just want to say a big thanks to
both Adam and Dave for getting me to take the plunge into V for
the music podcast and got something I'm putting together
and after the developments of the chapter boost and the split
kit. I'm doing it. Y'all motivated me to dive in and give
it a shot much appreciated. Go podcasting. Well what's the name
of your show, bro?
Dave Jones: Let us critical mistake yeah.
Adam Curry: 13,579 from chimp who just says tallyho tallyho to
you says it twice with twice that amount. Thank you meet us.
5000 SATs loving the helipad update. Thank you brother. Thank
you Eric P P again chat F pod verse is a go. Okay, I guess.
dribs start Gribbs up with a super oh he is can't remember
what JCD called this booth booths a row of swans geese. Any
just 55,555 sets. Thank you Brother Go podcasting. We got
let me see. I think I think that's it. That's it for the
live booths and thank you all very much for supporting the
live and lit show of podcasting 2.0 With your value in return
for the value you obviously are receiving
Dave Jones: the two the two Archangels of The casting 2.0
Marco Arment $500 Whoa 20 his blades on the Impala and Kevin
and Tom from Buzzsprout $500.
Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you rose.
That's so appreciated that always makes us feel good at the
end of the month that we know that we we can pay the bills.
Dave Jones: I had had beers with Tom. He was in town here in
Birmingham couple weeks ago. Oh, cool. It was great. We went and
had some brews and talked about everything in the world for a
couple hours. It was great to see him again.
Adam Curry: What was he doing in Birmingham? So you have family
there?
Dave Jones: It was a family thing but like him, I think is
his daughter was visiting a college up here. Oh, okay. So it
stopped me I stopped by to say hey, and hang out for a while.
Oh, very cool. Yeah. See we got some that was it for PE pals. We
got some booster grams. We get up to speed devil. Ainsley
Costello 2500 SATs, pod fans. Love the show this week. So
excited to be such a big part of solving for a new music
industry. Big solving for music
Adam Curry: like that. Definitely, definitely. Big part
a
Dave Jones: mere mortals podcast Kyron 2222. Through fountain he
says it's true. It really is all my fault. To clarify, to
clarify, mere mortals is where I do all the interviewing
conversations. The value for value podcast is for education
and explaining the ethos practical implementation,
boosting dis at the appropriate section to see how it will show
up in the comments. They will hate you for it.
Adam Curry: You're a hated man now. Boasting everybody you're
ruining it.
Dave Jones: Gene bein good job on pod on the pod news weekly
review gene. Yes.
Adam Curry: That was funny to hear him. I liked that. It was
it was cool to hear him do the alley loops for for for James.
Dave Jones: There's rumble that he has radio chops from the past
but he didn't talk about that on the show. But there's lots
Adam Curry: of rumble. He's doing well. He's got some new
things coming out. Like some sermons or something. I'm very
interested to hear what he's what he's got coming out.
Dave Jones: 2020 teeth or cast Matic he says I had an idea
about the deep the deep kinks. I think he may have seen deep
links but he said deep key Okay. I've got to click on this
interesting
Adam Curry: autocorrect What have you been texting people?
Dave Jones: You know, it is a I had an idea about the deep kinks
David Dave talked about. But figure the details made more
sense on Mastodon and he has a link to a post to on Mastodon
what does he say? He says, me it doesn't already exist. Could you
all define a podcast deep link spec? That says deeplinks? Dot
podcast? index.org. Channel good item good should prompt opening
any podcast app somewhere now. Yeah. Okay. So we've had lots of
different goes at this in the past? And here's the the quick
answer is yes, we could do this. We could do what you talked
about, which is have a linking service where we where you link
to a podcast episode on the podcast index, and then we
provide a bunch of links to open them up in the corresponding
apps. The reason that I haven't done it is because there are
podcast services out there that already do this. That also use
us. Yeah, we don't want to compete our our ethos is never
compete, right? We just don't want to go out and do something
and, like, like plink, or you know, these services, they
already do it and I'm not gonna go in and start doing things
that other people are already doing.
Adam Curry: Right. We do not want to be a DNS destination. We
just want to be a playground. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Gene if you want to build it, yeah, you should build
that and then and then make it available. And then we'll, you
know, we'll talk about and promote and all that kind of
stuff, but we'd we're not going to do it. No. Gene been again,
what was the 13372 caspases. Okay, that was cool. I pause the
show, boosted, hit play and saw my boosts show up as Chapter
art.
Adam Curry: Wow. That's very cool. That is pretty cool.
That's it that fast. Um, what is what is my Franco doing over
there? I don't know. It might very cool.
Dave Jones: I think he pulls the fresh chapter file every time
you hit play. Wow. Oh, that's cool. RP 1984 4000 says do
fountain he says FYI, office hours. 2.0 has been playing V
for V music recently. Okay, office hours. That's Jupiter.
Chris. Over there. Jupiter broadcasting cool. Cameron 9999,
I'm assuming This is the Cameron
Adam Curry: the Cameron of IPFS. Podcasting. dotnet
Dave Jones: Yes. And this Depop verse he says, hell yeah for the
split calculator. Oh, yes. Sounds like something he would
say. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's on the to do list. Todd from
Northern Virginia 22 to 22. Well, the voices really crack
and
Adam Curry: you're almost there, brother. Hang in.
Dave Jones: I see the light.
Adam Curry: You like remember that episode, The Brady Bunch
where the kid's voice starts to change. Greg. Greg one of them.
Can't sing was the partridge with May was the Partridge
Family. I can't remember. No, I know it's Brady was Brady Bunch,
Dave Jones: because the song was changed
Adam Curry: that you're just like that. Oh, thanks. Yeah,
you're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome.
Dave Jones: You only you can see my braces. Todd from Northern va
22 to 22 through pod verse he says. Road ducks go podcasting.
Adam Curry: Man you are really on the last party. I know what
this feels like.
Dave Jones: fussy. slewed. 54321 through fountain he says, I my
wife is a gypsy and I'm a Romanian and you talk Yes. And
using the word Romani as the new word for gypsy is cultural
appropriation by the gypsies. Okay. Also the stereotypes you
were throwing out as far as envisioning a gypsy are mostly
accurate
Adam Curry: with a blouse and the gold earrings and the nose
ring Yes. All right. We Nailed it. Nailed it.
Dave Jones: CASP eland 3693 Found any says fix the license
thanks for the work. Guys Kyron 1111 a satchel Richards the
podcast indexer says Could you explain what the MK Ultra chat
is? Again, please, I want to start looking at getting a chat
room for my podcast. Is this something that would suit my use
case? The answer is eventually Yes. Right now No. Because it's
it's still in pieces. Chat Room for the the MK Ultra chat is is
a ephemeral chat where you spin up a chat room and it just lasts
as long as the show so that's the way that works. I will
eventually get back to that project but I would say for a
chat room look at something like I mean just use activity pub
honestly just be it throw it through as a that's my chat
room.
Adam Curry: Oh, that's an IRC channel.
Dave Jones: Yeah, if you jump on IRC
Adam Curry: I think you can use the void zero.net and create a
channel Yeah, great. I think you're free to do that they're
not gonna last mortals will have severe void zero to hook you up.
Okay, and be just like just like we're just like the big boys
just like the pros Carmen
Dave Jones: the Pro. Let's see 33 over 10 69,000 SATs breeze Oh
through breeze Oh, he says my boost was short probably
lightning liquidity things so here's the rest JC days lost his
Dave Moses his game.
Adam Curry: Okay, yeah, thank you. I saw that come in, as
well. I appreciate that. You 33 Thank you.
Dave Jones: Nicholas B 5822 to 22 found and he says listened on
web needed to boost Yeah, boost. Thank you brother. And the
delimiter which threw me a curveball this week because he
sent 30 2015 instead of 30 3015
Adam Curry: Yes, this is because of the value of Bitcoin has gone
up versus fiat money so he's keeping it in check.
Dave Jones: Okay, he's got a skis recalc he recalculated?
recalc
Adam Curry: recal
Dave Jones: Okay, cool Mr. Blogger says howdy non Slavic
Caucasians days and add. Ever wonder how much rage you're
packing to Planet rage. Okay. All right. Let me I gotta
swallow here. To an end to Planet rage. Where two
Caucasians one of them half Slavic. Rate Your theory on the
latest world blunders. This week. Biden as a war president,
and why Keith Oberman is our rent radar. Celebrating 100
Fiery episodes. Join the rage parade because misery loves
comedy visit WWW dot Planit rage dot show and let boil some blood
together. Yo CSB.
Adam Curry: Thank you all very much for your contributions.
I'll do a quick a quick check of the tally coin but that's just
an afterthought because no one uses it. Nope. Oh wait, I'm
wrong. Whoa, whoa. Get up. Chimp. Chimp. Yep. 95,564 I'll
call that a baller boost. That's tap tap. Is this thing on? Yes
it is. It works. You did it
Dave Jones: wasn't wasn't the gym pool fees? That is a baller
boost. Wasn't
Adam Curry: that chimp the same one that did we see chimp
earlier on?
Dave Jones: Yeah, he sent one. Yeah, yeah.
Adam Curry: Oh you said tallyho maybe that was the key the code
word tallyho go to tally coin. I got it. Okay, well, it nailed
it. Dude. You can find the tallyho for on chain, Bitcoin at
podcast index.org Scroll down to the bottom two big red buttons
not to the platform somebody but to donate. One goes to the Fiat
fun coupon gateway which is being used less and less each
day which is good. Although we always appreciate our hosting
partners and Marco and people jumping in with some some good
coinage at the end of the month is highly appreciated. Also,
we've got a link there to the tally coin and of course we
recommend that you get a podcasting 2.0 app. It is the
wave of the future and we appreciate all the support you
give us your time your talent and your treasure and there's a
lot of the the first two T's going around and you can find
that podcast index dot social you can follow Dave at
podcasting. Next is social adamant podcast index dot
social. Or if you really feel you need to be on the server hit
us up. We'll be happy to send you an invite link. Brother, I'm
gonna let you go. Get some monthlies though we get. Oh, I'm
sorry. Yes, please do the monthlies.
Dave Jones: You got Michael Gagan $5 Charles current $5 Sean
McCune $20 Thank you. Shawn Cohen glotzbach $5, Christopher
reamer $10 James Sullivan $10 Jordan Dunnville $10 Dred Scott
$15 and Michael Kimmerer $5.33.
Adam Curry: These matters. These are really sustaining monthlies.
We appreciate that. We can always count on those. Each one
of those is one or maybe two or sometimes three servers. So
believe me, it really does matter. Brother now I really do
have to You gotta stop. You gotta stop. You gotta stop.
Thank you chat room. We love you. thank everybody who's
listening our live studio audience. Dave, thank you so
much. My brother will be talking feel better. He'll he'll he'll
Thank you, man. No, he's supposed to sit when I say he'll
lie. All right, everybody. That's it for the board meeting.
We'll be back next Friday on the board meeting right here
podcasting 2.0.
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.org. For more information,
Adam Curry: go podcast
Dave Jones: to stick in your app.