Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for November 3 2023, episode 153
Chapter everybody once again for your weekly board meeting of
podcasting 2.0 Everything happening in the modern podcast
space. You Yes, we are the only boardroom where a vote of no
confidence is a good thing. Everything happening your
podcasts index.org with a namespace Of course all the
goings on a podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in
the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama ladies,
he's had 989 days of uptime say hello to my friend on the other
end, the one and only Mr. De Jones.
Dave Jones: The servers ahead of time.
Adam Curry: Oh, I'm sorry. My
Dave Jones: body is down.
Adam Curry: Man, you're still sick, huh?
Dave Jones: Um, for for Tiny Tim, I've gone I've gone all the
way back like that little. I have that little little crutch
the with the stick?
Adam Curry: Under the under the under your your armpit stick?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna blow my nose. Like,
seriously when I'm blowing my nose. It looks like a crime
scene. It's like a murder scene around here.
Adam Curry: I think you have this every year. Don't use kind
of a annual thing for you.
Dave Jones: Oh, yes. My annual health. I got. I got COVID on
Halloween. Oh, no. I got shingles on Halloween. Oh,
Adam Curry: that was that was three years ago. Three years.
Yeah,
Dave Jones: I had, yeah, my annual appointment. So I'm
trying this new thing. Okay, this is great.
Adam Curry: I bet it's great. Okay, what new thing do you have
going on?
Dave Jones: So I go to the I go to the end. User, here's my
typical. Here's my typical strategy. So I'll give it a
week. And then if I'm not getting better by day seven,
Adam Curry: you call 911.
Dave Jones: I just drove to the emergency room. I go to the end.
And it's like, it's always about, sorry, it's a bacterial
infection like sinus infection, antibiotic. You know, Bada bing,
bada boom. So I go. And I talked to him. He's like, hey, you
know, I would like to try something different with you
this year. And I'm like, okay, all right. And he's like, we got
this compounding pharmacy. Usually, usually I like, I like
those guys. Yeah. He's like, we got this combat. And so it's
like an antibiotic. He's like, he gets it. He's like, You got a
neti pot. I'm like, Yeah, I get I love netic. He's like, get
your net. He's like you poured you know, get your distilled
water, put your saline pack and the neti pot. And then you open
a capsule of this compounded stuff and drop it in there and
mix it up in the new neti pot. You're yourself with that. And
it's got an antibiotic and steroid in the, in the, in the
compound. So he's like, do that twice a day for 15 days. All
right. So I start yesterday. And I'm like, you know, do I do it
at it twice yesterday. Once this morning, I get to work this
morning. And everybody's like, man, your face is like cherry
red. What's wrong? Oh, no
Adam Curry: allergic reaction is
Dave Jones: something dude. Oh, no. My face is like, my face is
like bright red. Looks like it's all chapped and red. So I had to
call them the pharmacy and like, Hey, I'm having some sort of
reaction.
Adam Curry: Like you have leprosy.
Dave Jones: So now I'm walking around on the Tiny Tim crud, you
know, with like, the red face. And I'm like, you know, is it's
a disaster over here.
Adam Curry: You're on the prayer list. Brother. This is no good.
We got we got a call on the big guns for this one.
Dave Jones: This is my obituary.
Adam Curry: He was tiny, but his name wasn't him. Hey, man, I
want to start off by saying something. I I saw what Jason
was doing with podcast guru. And I'm like, you know, I really
ought to try podcast guru. Now I'm on an Android derivative,
which is known as Graphene OS. So basically, his android
android derivative derivative. Holy crap. podcast is
phenomenal. Great. Yes. I mean, it's, it's just, I don't know
what everyone else is because I typically I'm using pod verse
and fountain. But podcast Guru is snappy. You know, it really
responds was is it some other programming language is being
used there that's more native to Android or what is that? What
what why, why? Why am I noticing the snappiness difference?
Dave Jones: I don't know what his I don't know what his build,
like environment looks like. I mean, Android is natively Kotlin
I think now, which is better squid Java
Adam Curry: and it's just the May I have a couple may give a
couple of pieces feedback for Jason since I'm talking about it
one I get node lit alerts I don't know if that's the if I
should be expecting it but it'd be live items it does find it oh
Dave Jones: no, it shows I did not get the best signal for this
show by the way. Well, I sent
Adam Curry: it out you didn't get a bad signal Let me double
check make sure everything's okay. Yeah, saves published
Okay, let me double check published all right. Let me send
that again. I've had been having some some weird issues like
Bookstagram ball Okay, Dred Scott didn't get it either maybe
I maybe I messed it up was fine. It could it be you know, gosh, I
don't know who knows. But but I know I haven't been getting lit
alerts. It'll show up fine. Like episode is live in two minutes.
One minute does all that but it doesn't fire off. All the other
alerts work perfectly. I mean, right away, boom. I get I get
alerts. But I just got it. You just got it now. Okay. Yeah.
What do you do? Well, like fired I fired it off again. I don't
know. Maybe. I don't know. But I still don't have one for podcast
guru.
Dave Jones: I just got it on. John. On the podcast index like
Adam Curry: pod pod podcast live. Yeah. Which is a surefire
way to know it's working. A couple of things. And I've
noticed this in general, this is also for that get Albey guys
when connecting my wallet to a podcast app and the only two I
have to do that in is well now it's actually curio caster pod
first partners. And and now podcast guru. This is set up
sometimes man it can take a long time before it finally goes
through. But you know, just sits there gives you no visual cues
that it's waiting to authenticate or whatever it's
doing. It just it fails a lot. It does this they still have
disconnects man the split kit. Sometimes I have to, you know,
I'll be saving stuff. And like it didn't save it because the
login timed out or something. There's there's something going
on with the get Alby times you out. I think I think I'm not
sure.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I agree. It's it's generally like in pod verse
a lot of times I have to read a lot. I had to re log in verse a
lot. Yeah. Quite a bit, because I'll just notice that the boost
buttons not showing up to go reconnect, I'll be well,
Adam Curry: and that's another thing, podcast guru, not my
expected behavior. Maybe it's not a bad thing. But you have to
specifically opt into every podcast to sense that. So
Dave Jones: I'm like, I'll have an account, so to speak. Well,
Adam Curry: well, when you're streaming sets, it'll say it
right there. And you can set it manually for your session. But
that's not it doesn't keep it going for the next session. And
if you're not paying attention, like oh, I wasn't streaming any
Sass, I feel really stupid now. So and I understand that, you
know, maybe not having it automatically. But it means that
if I've gone through the through the time of setting up my
default, streaming sites, and by default boost, I'm thinking like
everything that is a is a V for v should be default on but it's
default off, as okay. Now, there's also no way to see what
my wallet amount is. Is like as guru. Yeah, yeah. So I think
that's something that should be in there. And I'm just spouting
this off Jason just because he happens to be here. I just wrote
down this list. Like, let me talk about this. Also, I think
he's, I think he's batching SATs and so it's very confusing when
I see 500 SATs and I'm like, Whoa, is that per minute because
I set it to 200. And but I think it's a batch which is okay, but
you know, I It doesn't What are you drinking?
Dave Jones: This is liquid death sparkling water.
Adam Curry: Oh, sweet. What's wrong with you? Don't drink
liquid death. This is not good stuff. This
Dave Jones: is leftover from the Halloween party.
Adam Curry: Oh, this is horrible. Is it all caffeine or
amphetamines or something? It's just it's just pure water.
Dave Jones: Okay, but it's got a huge skull on it. Makes me feel
Adam Curry: feel feel good. Makes you feel ready. Ready for
the journey? Yeah. So that there's also no way to see the
splits. And the and here's the here's the big one for me. The
wallet switching? So it'll say in the amounts and it'll say T
S. Which is I mean, I'm like, oh, that must mean time split.
Because I'm listening to a podcast with with music. But
yeah, you mean say something else. I mean, this is wallet
switched or whatever. or, you know, or show me who else it
went to because I want to know the artists got it. So it's just
it's just a minor stuff. But just let me
Dave Jones: let me add that cast. Cast thematic, you know
course, is only that cast ematic like I don't have I don't I
rarely ever have my lb wallet disconnected and cast ematic I
mean, I go into it, I go weeks without having to, like
reconnect my wallet, okay, oh, I'm not sure what Franco's doing
differently than what maybe Mitch and Jason are doing. But
in it, but it's like that, that connection that token or
authorization token unless Franco's just renewing it
silently in the background. Like it is long it seems to be much
longer lived and cast thematic dangerous and the other
interesting
Adam Curry: interesting yeah, and and also if you don't know
it's disconnected you don't know You know, that's another thing
Yeah, I think these are these may be general comments.
Everyone should take a look at it like I know it's not like
you're busy or anything doing stuff. There's nothing going on.
Nothing else you gotta be working on. But these are just
little the I love the way pod verse shows that pod verse
really shows it well, but pod verse Then conversely, when you
hit the boost button, it can take a long time before you get
some you get some satisfaction before you get to your confetti
podcast guru by the way does lightning bolts and all kinds at
all I'm missing is a thunderclap. Yeah, and then I
think it just you know just does that and then does it in the
background and figures it out for you which I think is a
better user experience. That's
Dave Jones: That's what curio caster does to you hit you get
confetti. Yeah, right
Adam Curry: away. You get comfy? Yeah,
Dave Jones: you get satisfied and eat. Exactly,
Adam Curry: exactly. And I want to welcome my buddy Cody from
Kerrville who got his sidestream music podcast up on RSS blue,
without without me having to help him at all.
Dave Jones: That's real man right there.
Adam Curry: I think Dolby does help them out but or if he said
Hey, Dolby das listen to what he said. It sounded great. But ya
know, I love him for doing that. So he's he does the morning
show. On what is it? Now I forgot what the rock of the rock
of Texas rock of Texas and man he knows a lot of these value
for value guys, a lot of them. So yeah, he's doing it. You got
interviews going on all kinds of stuff. So we need a place as a
pipeline then yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, definitely. Oh, he's he's
been onboarding a lot of people. was great. So he's on RSS.
blue.com. I see that pod home.fm just launched today, I think,
which also that oh, yeah, pod home.fm also has value time
split, magical wallet switching technology.
Dave Jones: I've been talking with. I think his name is Barry.
Is that right? Yes. Barry. Barry. Yeah, I've been talking
with him. You know, he's helped him with index stuff and getting
set up with API keys and all that kind of stuff. I did not
know that they launched That's great.
Adam Curry: Yeah. And he has, I think even has a music lookup
thing. Just like ours is blue.com has Oh, yeah. You know,
I just love that. It's working that people get it. It's like,
oh, okay, I understand how to do this. Fantastic.
Dave Jones: It tells me that it's not that of course, it's
calm. It's complicated. But that's complicated in quotes. I
mean, you know, lots of stuff is complicated. I feel this way
about activitypub to, I feel like people get really freaked
out over over sort of a more a more in depth protocols like
that. But they're really at the end of the day if you if you sit
down and really bang it out. It's not that hard, right? No, I
mean, it's still just because if it was that complicated nobody
would do it like caisson, you know, exhibit A, you know, web
monetization or whatever that crap was that you had to have
like a PhD you know, in order to understand the why paper nobody
just nobody does it. The fact that people are doing this
coming in sort of a little blind and doing it kinda off to you
know, without a lot of hand holding is encouraging.
Adam Curry: Yeah, and that's and I think there's there's also a
general thinking that no one will ever do this is to vie for
V is too hard and makes no sense. People don't in fact, Oh,
yeah. A little bit of feedback for the podcast weekly review
boys. All right, I was doing my show prep. School. This is
ongoing, because I mean, I'm boosting I'm boosting and I'm
saying you can't do micro payments with Apple Pay. And
Apple can't do them. Then James is just like Adams wrong. I'm
sorry, Adams wrong here. But I'm not wrong, because you have to
the whole reason lightning exists in a way bitcoin is
because they can't do that. They can't, they would have to have a
bank charter, which will probably never be approved by a
regulator. Now, this is why I'm curious to see how Elon Musk
will do it. The only thing I can think he can use is fed now, but
even then he'll have to piggyback on some other bank.
Because you can't Apple can't just start doing micro payments
because you gave him all your money. You know, there's a
there's money laundering, there's all kinds of stuff that
they then have to do. And it goes on their balance sheet. No,
the hard No, it's not going to happen. This is why lightning is
such so beautiful. And so to keep hammering on, no one will
ever do it until it's dollars and fiat money. No, it's just
not going to happen. Be won't go look at how the money system
works in America. It has to be you know, the Buy Now pay later.
That's MasterCard, and the apple credit card that's Goldman Sachs
and boy they want to get rid of that business is so bad
everyone's defaulting.
Dave Jones: Well, Fred said, you know, fed now came out with a
with a with a bang and it's just like, I've never seen nothing. I
mean, is there any adoption before there
Adam Curry: was at a conference in Vegas? Like the money 2020
conference or something like that? Oh, yeah, I think it'll
show up. It may be what what x implement but just so you know,
it's like it's not it's not a matter of that apple technically
couldn't you know, do your account but they don't do your
account that's all banks that do that they are only middleware
between you and your own bank. They don't have an account has
to
Dave Jones: be a bank No, I think what x wants to be is a
bay Yeah. Are they wants to be good luck. That's but that's
different than Google and Apple those there. Those things there
Google pay Apple pay all that stuff? Those are Yeah, like he
said those are using banks the same way that cash app does
Adam Curry: Yeah. And exactly they got they have a banking
license, a bank charter, by the way, things are really cracking
wide open. Did you see strikes announcement?
Dave Jones: Now strikes? thing to me is what is how this
evolves into the thing that James was talking about with
using dollars, Yes, you bet you pay because I mean, strikes
whole thing really, ultimately is sin money, but use Lightning
as the as the substrate. And that that is very, that is
doable.
Adam Curry: But also you can do direct deposit to strike. You
can you can wire money, you can do all kinds of things with
strike. Now you can set it up so that it be you can pay in
lightning payments, and it's deducted immediately from your
debit card. I mean, of course, he's on the inside, right? His
parents are big in the financial industry. So he's got all the
connections in the legality. I'm talking about Mallory. Sorry,
Molly. Yeah, so he's got he's got all that set up. And it's
great, you know, so but this is really mainstreaming and if
you'll see what's happening with Bitcoin, and I, I pay attention
to these things part of what I do and all you're hearing now
from the financial markets is well bitcoins a safe haven you
know, they're treating it as a legitimate I'll say asset but
really it's a commodity but they're they're treating it as a
legitimate investment or use vehicle they still haven't
figured out that people are actually using it as money. I
buy beef with it. We are using we have a complete microcosm
economy with with the Lightning Network there. Yeah, we're
boosting back and forth, but it's value. We're boosting it
back and forth between podcasts. Okay, maybe it's not going that
far out of the system just yet. But Tina, who has CloudHealth
she says, Oh, in January, I can start paying my bi monthly
CloudHealth bill with lightning. It's like okay, beautiful. So
yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I got a buddy that does CloudHealth that's
pretty sweet service. Yes,
Adam Curry: it's fantastic. It's really good.
Dave Jones: He's not had any any trouble with it at all.
Adam Curry: Only good, good experiences.
Dave Jones: So yeah, I think this like the strive to be to be
clear, if people didn't keep up with that as the strike thing.
Like what the feature that I was talking about was, you can with
the new version of strike you can you know, is like you can
attach a debit card to your Stripe account and then you can
pay a lightning payment. And you don't have to already have a
balance right? It will just it will pay the payment. It will do
it will immediately deduct enough cash out of your debit
card right then do the conversion sin the lightning
payment and you never have to like transfer money out of your
bank account into the into your Bitcoin balance ahead of time.
Right? It's just It does all the conversion in one. One swift
motion. Yeah. That's like, that's how we get to that thing
that they were talking about.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Yeah. And that that is the way forward and
Apple might be able to implement that. I don't know if they will.
I don't care. I really don't
Dave Jones: you told James Boggs, two and a half years,
three years ago, they should have
Adam Curry: told them a lot of things. And many left. He's
like, Stacy, can do it all. Let her do it.
Dave Jones: He was like, How about what do you think about
this new Plaskett podcast subscription thing that we're
about to do? Like it's stupid.
Adam Curry: So I want to talk about Apple in a moment, because
two other things I want to mention to our developers. Right
now, the breeze SDK, along with green light, these are full
noncustodial very simple to implement wallets that are
really full nodes that you can use might want to consider
looking at those, because we're all on Albie right now. I love
to get Alby guys, please don't get me wrong. But it's it's
going to be a sad day, when you're going to be answering 100
emails an hour of people saying it doesn't work. And the breeze
is doing with their SDK, which is actually I think, may even
become a part of get Alby. I think that Roy mentioned that
I'm not quite sure how they're working together. But also, and
you get the you get your 12 words, you know, so you can
backup your account, you can recover your account from
anywhere, it's fully noncustodial. I think it's worth
looking at, because we're so reliant on really one player is
just something I'd like to mention. And they will
eventually have key send incoming mail. So it'll be two
way and it might behoove you to have that as a part of your app.
So you can go up as
Dave Jones: the green light just went public. Yeah. They just
released like, what, couple of days ago? Yeah, as they
Adam Curry: say, it's all really simple. And you don't have to
worry about stuff. And you don't have to worry about liquidity or
any of that any of that stuff. It's worth having a look at, you
know, just we should we should have more options available. And
I think they're available, but we haven't really talked about
him and was just like, Okay, it's implemented, it's good to
go. But, you know, and then back to Apple and podcasts, Pocket
Casts, I just wanted to say how incredibly disappointed I am in
these people. Seriously, I mean, we even have antenna pod now
implement implementing transcripts, there's so much
richness being published. After about three years, such rich
content. And you really, I think, you all know that your
business model is not going to be in providing this for people
who only use your app that the content is being created freely
for you by wonderful podcast hosts. You know, it's there, he
all you have to do is just implement it. And I have high
hopes for Apple. Because of Stacey now being over there. I
hope that she can push through some some of the newer modern
features, but it's just like, What are you guys doing? I mean,
what is wrong with you? Do you know where this came from? Do
you know who your daddy is? Daddy
Dave Jones: Apple told us to podcast moments ago that they
were about to do transcripts in the podcast in Apple podcasts
and they still haven't done it. Scripps is not that mean? Like
that's, that's they've already done it in in Apple Music is not
like it's not gonna be able to like copy and paste right.
Adam Curry: I don't understand why I
Dave Jones: did enjoy this. I did enjoy reading the podcast
industrial complex, trying to. Yes, I did enjoy reading All of
the explanations that we worked with Apple to convince them that
their way of doing downloads, automatic downloads was bad for
the advertising industry. Therefore, they said that they
were going to change and update their tool and they did so we
had this we all signed this letter and blah blah. Sure. And
then and then it comes out later Apple says we made this change
to improve battery Live? Yes.
Adam Curry: Well, that is a bring up a good point. And you
have some good opinions on this. I would like to say that this
latest change in iOS 17 shows how fragile your business model
is in the podcast industrial complex, just wait until ipv6,
and we're going to talk to our boardroom guests today, when
ipv6 become real, and it will eventually mean it's showing up
more and more, and you're going to be gone, it's going to be
done, whether it's ipv6, or Apple flipping on their VPN, or
just, you know, more VPNs in general, the EO. And immediately
I thought, how can I spin this into something good? And well,
first of all, why don't you talk a little bit about you wrote a
great blog post about this, I should probably put that in the
show notes. That the writing is on the wall, it's coming. It's
like a freight train. And the pic is standing on the tracks
going with what like a deer in the headlights going, Whoa,
what's those motorcycles, Lincoln?
Dave Jones: Cat?
Adam Curry: Do you not see that this is going to run right over
you the image and you know, just like Apple waited for a reason
to do out this download thing was oh, save battery life.
They'll wait for another reason to switch on the VPN. It's
coming.
Dave Jones: I've got a lot of thoughts about Apple's role in
things in you know, app. So Apple, we've all been myself
included, have been irritated at Apple for not allowing you to
specify a default podcast app on iOS. Yeah, for a very long time.
And so, and I have railed about it
Adam Curry: anti competitive, really, I mean, if I had enough
money, I'd sue them over. It's anti competitive.
Dave Jones: It feels that way. And but I've actually started to
shift, I've started to see this in a different way. It's still
to be clear, is still irritating. And but I think I
may understand why they're doing this.
Adam Curry: Okay. And why they're doing what?
Dave Jones: Why they don't allow that. Oh, okay. So I think it's
all has to do with the competitive landscape. So they
their apples in the business of, you know, they have Apple Music.
They have Apple TV, and they have Apple podcasts, let's just
say those are their three media in media centric apps on the
phone. And you have Spotify, who has music and and podcasts. And
now they're trying to do get into video. You have YouTube,
who has music pot, you know, video, obviously, and now
they're trying to get into podcasts. So you have these two
players that over here, YouTube and Spotify. I'm speaking as
apples. This is this is an apple. I won't even say I'm an
Apple executive or an Apple guy. I'm not gonna say I'm somebody
in the Apple podcast team. And those people have been there
forever. And they have a different perspective. They tend
to care about open podcasting. They may not always do
everything, this ride for open podcasting, but they do care
about it. There's a there's a history there. And they look at
spod cast at Spotify, and YouTube and they say okay, these
are two walled gardens that if we let them they are going to
take over pod of they're going to try to put a moat around open
podcasting. There, they will try to capture it.
Adam Curry: Oh, and I know exactly how they're gonna do it.
You're I think you're right.
Dave Jones: And if and if we Apple began speaking as an apple
podcast insider here, if we Apple allow people to set a
default pod, their own default podcast app, they lose people,
they lose, they lose the ability to force podcast, open
podcasting to be a thing on in the Apple ecosystem. Right now
if you want to play in the Apple ecosystem in the podcasting
world, your your 99% of the time forced into the apple podcast
app, which still uses RSS as his primary mechanism. If you allow
that to to change, immediately, immediately. You run the risk of
having 25% or plus of the podcast world, maybe switch over
to become confined behind Spotify. And I think they care.
I think they care about that not happening. They don't make money
off. Apple doesn't make any money on podcasting. No, but
they do care about not giving. I'm not saying this is all
altruistic, I think it's I think it's enlightened self interest
on their part. They don't want to give YouTube and Spotify,
more leverage in the worlds of music and video correct, either.
And so this is their way of maintaining a fragmentation to
Spotify and YouTube can't, can't overcome. Well, I
Adam Curry: can already predict what's going to happen. And I
will make a prediction and a recommendation. One, they're
going to expand their own names namespace to add transcripts,
maybe chapters. Oh, god, oh, yeah, they're going to add it to
their namespace. My recommendation would be to also
recognize the podcast namespace. And by the way, if they do that,
I'll start a lawsuit. I will, I will, I will sue them. Yeah. I
think we can't wait.
Dave Jones: As long as they're assholes.
Adam Curry: illegal. It's illegal in America to be in a
hole
Dave Jones: that's what I got. That's what got Alex Jones.
Yeah.
Adam Curry: Exactly what happens in
Dave Jones: boys what it boils down to people, like, why do
these just nail
Adam Curry: we'll see, but it will be beautiful. If they just
said, You know what, there's this. There's hundreds of 1000s
of feeds that have transcripts, hundreds of 1000s of feeds that
have chapters, maybe start, you know, easily and I understand
they want to control the experience. And, you know, but
play with us play with us become our friends again. To Steve
died, it became horrible. He wasn't the best. He really
wasn't. But the initial, the initial start, the initial
openness that Steve Jobs had, and how can we help you guys?
How can we make this work for you? was beautiful. And okay,
you know, yeah, so you still started off by promoting NPR and
PBS and BBC. It's okay. We get it. But the his, he had a Kismat
about him. You know, he had a Louis that he understood that,
you know, these are the people who are making it work. We don't
have to do anything. We can only benefit people want our devices.
That's it. Anyway, we may have done I'm getting to be as bad as
Todd Cochran talking about YouTube, by the way. We have I
wish I think we should bring them in and we're going to do a
drinking game. Instead of a drink every single time Todd
Todd Cochran says YouTube you have to boost boosts every
single time Todd mentions YouTube you have to is that a
good game? Should we try that for today?
Dave Jones: And I don't wait. Let me refill my wallet.
Adam Curry: Let's bring him in because we're already way into
their into their territory. Welcome to the podcasting 2.0.
board room. We have Mike Dell and Todd Cochran from blueberry.
Hello, gentlemen.
Todd Cochran: Happy podcasting, gentlemen.
Mike Dell: Yes, it's a nice nice boardroom. You must have
painted.
Adam Curry: Thank you. It smells a bit so it's a little kind of
freshly painted vibe. Yeah. Good to have you guys back. It's been
a while.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we've been busy. Very busy,
Adam Curry: very busy. Very busy. Tired, of course, is my
crack dealer. Every single time that new media show comes on.
Like, I'm gonna do some crack. I'm gonna do some crack. I'm
gonna sit there and be aggravated and get sick from it.
But I want the crack. I want the crack. But I
Todd Cochran: could offer to fill your Satoshi bucket today.
But let's not talk about the company that should not be
talking about
Adam Curry: Good luck. Good luck. Good luck with that. Good
luck. Hey, I had a question for you right off the bat. Just you
know, since we're in the transparency of the boardroom
Sure. You mentioned about a month ago I think that your
value for value numbers you reverse engineer it because you
know you got a split from from every payment that your
customers get and you said that podcasters had received about
$10,000 value for value. Yep. Which is phenomenal I thank you
for thank you for mentioning that number. What's interesting
is you were talking about this being a fraction of your ad
numbers and then you had all right I can't I can't tell
anybody or I can't talk about why can't you tell us what your
podcasts are making with advertising is why is that a
secret?
Todd Cochran: My board just fire me I'm still accountable I you
know, there's certain things we don't talk about.
Adam Curry: But value for value numbers are okay but add numbers
are not okay. Like you know, because I talked about the
payout I mean not not the total amount but the payout to
Todd Cochran: to podcast, I suppose we could I think the
challenge is, is that we? I tried to be careful. Yeah, no.
And you never know what's going to trigger a board member to get
upset at me. The the podcasting 2.0 stuff, they kind of let me
run with scissors with it. I'm sure when that
Adam Curry: is it is 10% The number of value for value versus
ads? Is it less than 10%?
Todd Cochran: I will say that the programmatic ads is many
multiples of value for sure. Yeah, six times
Adam Curry: seven. Come on. Next question.
Mike Dell: Todd just joined up or something?
Dave Jones: What did you think about my, my apple opinion,
Todd?
Todd Cochran: You know? Yeah, here's the thing about Apple.
Over the years, I've learned how to how should we say, as Apple
nicely for things because they never talk whatever people say
about Apple making a decision. It often comes from gentle
persuasion, say, hey, we'd love to see you guys do this, it
would help us this way. And then they kind of go, Oh, that's
cool. They'll never they'll never say anything committal. I
call it contractor talk. It's just like, you know, they're
very, very careful. But then every once in a while, they'll
throw us a bone and something shows up. And, and I kind of
smile. And, you know, I'll silently send off an email to,
you know, 10, or one of the guys or one of the folks over there,
say, hey, thanks. And of course, they never respond. But they do.
But
Adam Curry: they can't respond either. You know, that might be
culpable in some Whoa. But part. It's really, it's really, it's
really sad. It makes me sad. But also, it just makes me want to
position them as your granddaddies app, you know,
because that's what it is, at this point. I mean, look at the
magic of, of some of these podcasts, apps, look at the
phenomenal things are being done. And by in no small part,
thanks to blueberry. Now, there's content that wants to be
published. It's there, you know, it's like, why wouldn't you want
to take that content? It's there. It's free.
Mike Dell: There was, you know, there, they are definitely what
I call a legacy app, you know, there. There's still a big
player, but not much changes over there. As far as, you know,
the customer experience, I should say, I
Adam Curry: think it'd be, I mean, think about that. Because
what what would Dave just said that, you know, they want to
have that competitive, and they want to keep it fragmented. So
Spotify is over here. Think about what happens the minute
Apple says, Oh, by the way, we've implemented all of these
new features that are available to you on all these podcast
hosts and look at all the cool stuff we have now. Spotify, you
know, they'd be they'd be caught with their pants down.
Todd Cochran: If they did announce that champagnes on me.
So yeah, but you know that. That's what we can hope for. And
And how about Pocket
Adam Curry: Casts? What's wrong with those people? Seriously?
What's wrong? Matt? I don't understand. We had meetings, we,
we laid it out, there was interest, we showed everything.
And then you know, it's like, nothing, nothing. You bought a
product? And here's a great way to differentiate.
Todd Cochran: Yeah, I talked to some of their team members over
there, too. They were talking to us about power press a little
bit, and then they just kind of go silent.
Dave Jones: I think you know, the people, the listeners do
choose podcast apps, based on features. Like, you know,
there's yes, there's a large portion of podcast listeners
that did obviously just go with whatever the default app is.
That's, that's that is a thing that happens for sure. But there
are a sizable number of of people who they tried to take
indica switched to a different app. And they're like, well,
this new app doesn't have this feature that I have fallen in
love with on this old app. And so like for you think about
things like sleep timers and stuff like that. Some people are
really in bed, you know, they're really attached to a particular
feature of an app. And I feel like if Apple started
implementing some of these some of the podcasting two point of
features in a way because otherwise if you look at it it's
a great it's actually add the pie Apple podcasts out is a good
app. It's a quality piece of praise a quality product. It
doesn't look like crap, it looks great. If they started adding
some of these features, it would give people even more incentive
not to go to youtube Spotify. Others are there because the
YouTube and Spotify YouTube doesn't give a crap and Spotify
they add features nobody cares about you mentioned like YouTube
Yeah, but I'm not talking Yes, I'm
Adam Curry: sorry. You're right. My mistake my mistake you get a
pat Todd is crackling though man you got like some discharge have
Putting and I mean, that's electrical discharge.
Todd Cochran: Benson weird. We're on fire here. You know I,
Apple though they're fully about the listener experience. And we
understand that all these new features are added to the
listener experience. But they do things their own way at their
own pace, and they're never committal. So your guess is as
good as mine. But a TED in the rest. I know you guys are
listening. But meanwhile,
Adam Curry: may I make a recommendation? Next time Apple
decides to do something just revolts like the removal of
email addresses and whoa, whoa. No, stop, stop. Just we got to
we have to start fighting back.
Mike Dell: And as a fellow support guy, yeah. I feel
Adam Curry: it's, I mean, at this point, it's gotten to the
point where delete my podcast from your platform, like, Okay,
done. If someone else says it was, if it was wrong, we'll
bring it back. We'll bring it back.
Dave Jones: Fine bounds checking.
Adam Curry: All right, you good done. All right, but don't like
you
Mike Dell: were talking about listeners picking an app, you
know, I, I use overcast as my kind of daily driver. But for,
you know, value for value shows and all that I use pod verse and
there's things in pod verse that, yeah, that don't exist.
Exactly. You know, exactly. I have auto playlists. And it's
really hard. To do that in covers,
Adam Curry: all I do is I just pick it, I pick an app and I
just promote it on no agenda promoting podcast guru now. It's
taking away actual Apple market share no problem.
Todd Cochran: It's just like podcasters move into different
podcast hosts, they don't once they get into a podcast, so so
pretty comfortable on a small percentage might move at some
point is something really supercharges them. But listeners
the same way they get an app, they get comfortable. So what I
really go after those brand new listeners saying, Hey, if you're
new, you know, go over there to podcast apps.com and grab
yourself a new modern podcast app, they don't know any
difference. Training from
Adam Curry: I agree, that's the most not to call yourself
previously on the training business that we don't train our
audiences. But it makes sense to just say, hey, use this app,
because it's, and I think still, one of the top reasons to use a
modern podcast app is pod ping. Like how many people are like,
Yo p will be posting screenshots on acts like oh, great show,
look at this art, and people go, Hey, man, it's still not an
apple. And I was like, Well, yeah, because Apple doesn't
implement the the beautiful pod ping system, which is their free
for use. A Todd will save the mice.
Dave Jones: Why do you think that is that people don't switch
podcasting hosts more often? Because you're obviously right,
it's a small percentage that makes this switch. And then you
have people that switch and this switch back? Like, what do you
is it that they just come forward the UI with the payment
with the way the payments work? Like what do you what do you
think that's all? Well,
Todd Cochran: oftentimes, and Mike can probably speak this
more than I can, they will leave us because they've been told by
a advertising agency, they have to host a specific platform and
say, well, we'll leave the lights on for you and about 75%
of them come back. But those that come to us are our Georgia
technical podcasters podcasts that understand all of these
features. So again, it goes back into literally educating
podcasters about these features that that are now being
available to them and how it can make how and we have to just
continue to press that story at least at blueberry and and that
word Buzzsprout and RSS blue and everyone else this our job is to
talk about these new these new great features but you know when
Mike has to teach someone how to right click their mouse that
tells you why they don't move
Adam Curry: Sure. And what what percentage of your customers do
you think are using really using the 2.0 features and know their
habit and and are actively engaged in in even telling
people about modern podcast apps is it best subtenants More
Mike Dell: and more I've noticed you know I'm getting more
questions I know what do I do for this you know I've I've
shown people how to do value for value and you know live God
bless you they put a whole network on that's live 24/7 And
I put that lit tag in there for him or helped him do it and
they've been getting a lot of traction with that
Todd Cochran: I should run the numbers but again I would say
sub 10% For sure you know
Mike Dell: it's not much more than that Yeah. If that yeah, it
new incoming customers I know so yeah, in fact people moving to
us there's a higher percentage because the you know we do get
some moves big specifically because of these features
Dave Jones: in his that come in. I'm guessing that's coming into
like podcasts mirror and podcast and power press more than
blueberry proper are
Mike Dell: good, you know a little of everything you know
lot of the mirror the new mirror customers are are there for that
reason. But, you know, just it could be their way or publisher
system or how's that? How's
Adam Curry: it going in general podcast mirror? Do you? Are you
seeing uptake of that?
Todd Cochran: Yeah, we're seeing. I ran revenue report on
it the other day, and I'm pretty happy with month one. And the
goal, I have a goal number, you know, in the first quarter on
it, so we'll see where we hit. And we're, you know, we're
watching where people are coming from and we have had some
SoundCloud people move.
Adam Curry: Yeah, good. Good. I love that you have that guy.
Todd Cochran: But but mere Yeah, they're mirroring there's,
there's
Adam Curry: no, yeah, yeah. And do they do use the value tags?
Or the what are they using it for?
Todd Cochran: Yeah, they're using the value tag. So you
know, it's and again, it's, it's really about word of mouth of
getting that information out there. Because, again, you
probably have 99.9% of people that put stuff on SoundCloud,
they had no clue what value for value is. So
Adam Curry: what I'm seeing is everybody needs if you have a
musician in your life and artists in your life, and you're
listening, and you know what's going on, you know, these are
the people you need to help and it's very effective. I mean, I
saw Steve Webb, who's an OG God caster, onboard, like four
different artists. And yeah, he's walking them through it,
you know, he's like, Okay, here's your, here's your wallet.
And he sets it up for him and does all that stuff. And you
know, and he's helping them with either but I think actually
helps them with music side project, or I don't know why he
was putting off maybe RSS blue. And the and you can I get I get
emails like, hey, you know, this guy helped me and I'm seeing the
stuff come in, and like, this is cool. It's like, they're really
blown away. That that just you know, something's happening.
They're seeing something something's returning. And it's,
it's beautiful. When when people just see that and feel good
about it.
Todd Cochran: Yeah, Steve is in my email every once awhile
saying, hey, when's value time split? And so where am I? I am
I'm getting grumpy
Adam Curry: about them. Release. Release. Release time.
Dave Jones: They can't let me so but Buzzsprout released pod
roll. today. Are you are y'all doing pod roll?
Todd Cochran: We're doing we're doing pod roll. We're doing
Valley time split. We're doing remote item. What else are we
doing? Okay. I think there was one more Yeah, fourth,
Mike Dell: block block. We're doing the bottle.
Dave Jones: Okay. Yeah, cuz, because but because the pod roll
tag is like, I'm, I'm just chomping at the bit for this.
Because that,
Adam Curry: that's that that's the of the discovery mechanism
we're looking at, right,
Dave Jones: man, it's just gold, it's the discovery gold, like
the, the the listener side of the equation is more difficult.
Because apps don't want to share, you know, listen, even
and not they have this weird thing. They don't want to share
it anonymized listener open, you know, feed lists and things like
that. And plus, you know, it's a little clouded too, because you
have all these feeds that people subscribe to, that they never
really listened to anymore. So they're just like, they may be
in their feed list, but they hadn't listened to the show in
five years. So like to be able to get podcasters to, to go
through and say, Hey, these are the shows I recommend, even if
it's their own shows, I mean, doesn't matter. You know, or
even if the podcast hosting company says, here's 510 15
great shows that we recommend from our net from our network of
shows. Like, to me that is a strong signal of that I want to
use for discovery. Yeah, I want to push that out in an API, that
we're where podcast app 2.0 apps can grab it, and have an instant
way of having some clean, very usable recommendations to start
with.
Adam Curry: I'd love to have it in sovereign feeds. Even though
even though
Todd Cochran: the we got a demo on Wednesday of everything,
except for Valley time split. So now the Dev is working on that.
So I don't know if we're gonna release pod roll and remote item
first, and then very time split. I don't know what how they're
gonna sequence it out. But I made a couple of weeks. I'm got
my fingers crossed.
Dave Jones: Sweet, sweet. Awesome. Yeah, I'm looking
forward
Mike Dell: to that. And we got to get back to the top of that
list, you know.
Dave Jones: stopped trying to compete with Samsung, I think
that's possible.
Adam Curry: But you know, it's what I love that what's
happening is we're seeing more it's small right now, of course,
but I truly believe the music. The value for value music
podcasts is a category and it's a category that will bring in
people, new people. It'll bring in existing people like Cody
from Kerrville. It'll bring in you know, it'll enable people
Hold to just play a song, I think particularly for hosts as
the music look up stuff, which seems to be the way to go, you
know, even just for people to, you know, to even just discover
music, I mean, ln beats all this stuff, this is going to happen.
I mean, it's it's unseen. I've never seen this much enthusiasm
of people who are willing to sit down and break their brain
trying to figure out how does this work? What do I do? I want
to do it, how do I how do I make this work within the interface
or whatever? It's, it's, I think it is a will be a boon for
podcast hosts? Yes, let's get you to the top.
Todd Cochran: You know, our, our challenge is always we have two
development tracks, we have to update power press. And then we
also have to update our dashboard. So we actually have
to do twice the work to deploy
Mike Dell: an eternal level mirror now so the area
Dave Jones: mirror to Yeah, that is your, um, I'm going to I want
to ask this general question about your hosting customers.
When or not, maybe not, it's not your customers on ask about
your, the feeds in the podcast that you host. Do you have a
sense for? What what would be a breakdown? If you had to just
guess of people that just do podcasts like this couple of
people talking? People that do more highly produced podcasts?
People that do maybe audiobooks? Like? What do you think the
brain? What is your sense of the breakdown of how your podcast
base at blueberry? What is the types of content they're being
put out?
Todd Cochran: Oh, they're definitely either solo, or have
a guest or they're two hosts and have a guest. It's really good.
And we've never really ran the numbers that way. I often look
at it as a split between what we call dashboard customers and
those who are in power press that runs about 70 3070 to the
power press side, and not all those hosts with us. So I don't
know, Mike, you talk to the customers every day what what I
would say?
Mike Dell: I would say probably 80 to 85% are hobbyist
podcasters is what I call that, you know, aren't really that
interested in making money. I mean, yeah, a little a little
going out to dinner money be good, but that's not their main
focus. And then, you know, we got another 10 or 15% that are,
you know, more serious about it and trying to make a living and
her try, you know, are doing it for some corporate reason, or
government debts reason.
Dave Jones: So there's just some some folks that solo or some
folks talk in or maybe a guest interview show,
Adam Curry: I bet you How about your corporate a bit corporate
is bigger than we think over there. Yeah, we have
Todd Cochran: a huge corporate,
Mike Dell: corporate and some government entities
universities,
Adam Curry: is that is that usually private feeds or is it
like internet type stuff? No, we
Todd Cochran: have DOJ, we have Senate House Representatives
Voice of America. We got it. And there's a pile. There's our
pile. Yeah. Bunch. Most most of those are public podcasts. Let's
get DOJ
Adam Curry: on value for value. That would be
Mike Dell: why not Oh, VOA should do it.
Adam Curry: Propaganda arm of the US government. Why not? Let
them promote something for us for a change?
Todd Cochran: You want an eye opener? They have an incredible
large number of shows. I mean, I know I
Adam Curry: know. They're doing Oh, I knew that. Yeah, for sure.
You know, you could also tell them like this is a great way to
track stuff you know, this is a great way to see who's really
listening percentage but
Mike Dell: it was it was a list might close to 400 shows like
yeah, right close to 400. And I bought war my elbow pushing the
monster on the desk getting them set up.
Dave Jones: Is it the Department of jet US Department of Justice?
They're
Adam Curry: paying the rent Nice. government paying nice.
Dave Jones: A the DOJ is already selling Bitcoin. So they've got
they've got away
Adam Curry: their confiscated Bitcoin. What
Mike Dell: if we get a little hobby?
Dave Jones: Is this justice.gov? Is that what we're talking
about? Because
Todd Cochran: I don't I don't look up there. We just they just
have justice.com?
Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay. So you don't look at it because you
don't want anybody to know that you're Googling for justice.
Justice.
Adam Curry: That many podcasts.
Todd Cochran: You guys said something earlier that you guys
said something earlier that triggered me the ipv6 you want
to talk about that?
Adam Curry: Yeah, I do. Kind of. Yeah, yes. Yes. Yes. So the
challenge
Todd Cochran: with ipv6 is originally ipv6 was designed
that everyone would get an ipv6 for life. Well, yeah. gonna
happen and now they matter of fact, they those ipv6 addresses
get reassigned. I mean, like, it could be every 10 minutes. You
get a new ipv6 extension. But what we've found, and I think
I'm not an expert, Dave, you can correct me if I'm wrong. I call
him ochils. The if you have like, the fourth, Octo, that's
the one updates like rapidly, and but the three prior articles
do not. So did I say that?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, that's the first do the first section
is the ASN and then everything else 228 bit address?
Todd Cochran: Yeah, so the if you had like,
2001 2001 2001 1000, the 1000 changes and 807 65 Boy 43 on a
daily, really regular basis. But those first three, pretty much
lock in those don't move too much. So yeah, it's gonna, it's
going to change the Istat systems quite a bit.
Dave Jones: And that's, I mean, that's mostly mobile right now.
Yeah, the
Adam Curry: road has three mobile needs, they have to move
to ipv6.
Todd Cochran: It's mostly outside the United States to its
UC Asia is picked up by V six, huge. I mean, it's, you know,
because I'd be before there. If you didn't have an ipv4 block,
you know, you can't get them no more.
Adam Curry: Right. Yeah. Right.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and that's gonna I mean, all of these
things, like, I mean, it's just the, the way that the, the,
it's, we've been talking about this lately, the podcast
industrial complex, really is just the digital advertising
industry. And they, they're clueless about how to get off
being so dependent on IP addresses. Because this this is
going it's the writing has been on the wall for so long. And all
they do is just gripe about it. They have, they have no actual
solutions.
Todd Cochran: They kick the can down the road. But I know from
discussions I've been in with the IB, and so forth, there are
people that are panicking.
Dave Jones: Yeah, they shouldn't be panicking. Because the, the,
in the specifically I was talking about the IB at their
last conference, the keynote, Nga was just talking about he
was just bitching the whole time about about Apple private relay
didn't know
Adam Curry: what keynote was, what keynote was
Mike Dell: released in Chrome two.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and this is going to become more and more of
a thing. Where, because if you think you can, you don't even
have to, you don't even have to think very hard about it. If you
just look at Apple, Google and Microsoft, you can you can know
ahead of time that they're not going to want to let that data
escape. They want to use it. But they're not going to want to let
third parties use it. And so it just embed the hooves them to
put some sort of wrapper around the content that goes across
their platform, so that they're the ones that get the benefit of
being able to see it. But then it also but then when it exits
onto the open internet, all that's gone. So there's just no,
there's not going to be oh, there's no way to stop this
train in the UK. If you're, you know, so you have to start doing
the difficult work. I think that's what this all boils down
to honestly, it's just laziness.
Adam Curry: Is this this is Dave, is this not the very
reason why Google is going for the VPN, so that they still will
be able to track the ads. Isn't that the that has to be the
nobody else will be able to? Well, no, but they don't care.
So but they're gonna give you a free VPN, basically, I guess, as
a part of your experience, and you'll get used to it and you'll
like it. And it'll be fast and reliable. And you'll feel good.
But then they they and only they will be able to track the the
advertising that runs through it. I presume that's why they're
doing this.
Todd Cochran: Now it's so crooked
Mike Dell: in my or maybe maybe they'll try to sell it back to
the advertisers. How about
Adam Curry: this idea? It's a it's a very old idea. But maybe
it's time to consider. So we have this wonderful system, we
know exactly when someone's listening down to the minute.
And if you gave your listeners the opportunity, but if I said,
All right, you know what, I want to try something, I'm gonna give
you all a wallet, then here's an app with a wallet and start
using this. And by turning it on and sending me one Satoshi view
will be signaling to me that you're interested in
advertisements that I select for you. So I'm just I'm turning
that model on its head now instead of interruption based,
instead of forcing in your face. I like ads. I mean, there's
there's lots of shows where I'm like, oh, I want I want to hear
the ads that you have if you the podcasts are selected them for
me. And that doesn't mean that I don't necessarily want I mean, I
might want to an insurance company ad, but okay. And then
for every ad that I listened to, you'll actually cut me in on
that. Yeah, and then and the advertisers have to be in this
as well. I think there's a way that we can do this because we
have this mechanism, which shows the attention is there that the
play button has been pressed that someone is listening in
real time. I mean, it. And I understand this. There's ways to
game the system. But I feel like there's something in there that
enough people would probably it would jack, your CPM rates up to
150. Believe me, if she if you could use that, look, I've
proven these people want to hear your ad, they're listening to
your ad. Is there something there? Do you think that would
ever be possible?
Todd Cochran: Oh, there's something there because they're
so hardcore on attribution right now.
Mike Dell: For value for attributes, and that's what
Adam Curry: I'm talking about. But you determine what the
attributes are. I determine what I'm going to send along, I can
be completely anonymous, I can give you my email address, and
all this stuff can can be sent in the to V record, I see Alex
gaze, rolling his eyes. But all of that can. Maybe me, maybe
it's time to talk about his guaranteed payment record or
whatever. I'm just thinking some payment tokens. Can we get out
ahead of this? Because I'm not anti advertising at all?
Todd Cochran: Adam? So do you want to get back on the media
buyer training, go to New York and start briefing him because
I'm sad, this is what's going to take it's going to take someone
going to them and saying, okay, hey, we got a new way of doing
attribution. And do you want on this on this train? I'm sure
some would say yes. But you know, we have a hard night hard
enough time telling them. You know, the story we've been
telling them for 19 years. You bet.
Adam Curry: Yeah. But listen, I come into the room. And the
first thing I say is, do you know who your daddy is? And then
we're done. And that's, that's it? We're good. We're good.
Dave Jones: I'd rather just see it fail because it's fun or for
the show.
Adam Curry: No, I'm not anti advertising. I enjoy hearing
certain ads. And it should be a way to turn it off to like, you
know, for some reason, Spotify still gives me ads, even though
almost subscribe for premium subscriber, whatever it does is
still get ads. And I'm not interested in Joe Rogan's ads,
Mike Dell: I'm not gonna gotta pay Joe, though. So they have to
do something. Well, but you
Adam Curry: had, something has to give, because the system is
broken, the gatekeepers idea is broken. We broke that it's done.
It's over that that's not going to, you know, this is nonlinear
media. I read by heard on pod news that now what is it to
audio boom, we have 1 billion impressions. Well, there goes
your CPM rate. Yeah, yeah, hello, that's obvious.
Todd Cochran: I think you're on this stuff that I'm gonna have
to grind to that, you know
Adam Curry: what, I'll tell you something. And I have enough
shows that I could do this with, I'd be very interested in giving
it a shot that I'd be interested in. And yeah, I'll go to New
York with you. And I'll go in front of up to one trip in front
of the media buyers. And if we can really show an example of
how it would work. You know, of course, the CPM rate would have
to be outrageous. That's right. And it will have to send value
back to the people who are self identifying that I think there's
something there, I really do. That's if people know that I am,
because already, that's a lot of podcasts, I don't want that ad,
I don't want that. I don't want that. So if I'm in charge of
selecting the ads, just as I'm in charge of my topics, or
whatever else, and people trust me, they're listening to me for
that reason. And if they say, I love you out on what I don't
want to hear it, then don't attribute yourself you won't get
you won't hear anything. But if you do, then you're gonna get
the ad, and you're gonna get a token of appreciation back,
we're gonna send some value back for you. Thank you for being a
part of the system.
Todd Cochran: It's it's definitely something that's got
me thinking here. So yeah,
Dave Jones: you're right, Todd, but because the attribution
piece, that attribution piece tells me that there's a problem.
The fact that everybody is now that was at BetterHelp, is now
forcing all all their people to use a tracking pixel. You know,
this is becoming more of a thing, we hear more and more
shows talking about how their advertiser reached out and told
them they want them to start using track tracking pixel
Adam Curry: and Dave, check it out. With value for value, you
just add a split to the advertiser, they can track it,
then there's no third party. It's it's the listener
determines. Everybody knows the people who are involved in in
the in the agreement, it's an open agreement
Dave Jones: and pixel it's a tracking Satoshi it's a it's a
track oshi
Todd Cochran: backtracks once trucks he goes, that's nice. It
goes back to one simple thing. It's the problem we've had since
the beginning, did they listen? Because we don't have the
clients I don't that's all it is. That's what they're trying
to get the answer did that person
Adam Curry: and would also removed the data brokers because
you know, what people really want is that why do they want
your IP address? That's very, we know what curry does look at all
this traffic that he's looking at what he's doing. Oh, See what
he does? Oh, he, he sends traffic to American express.com
Oh, this is where guy now,
Mike Dell: things get things get big enough though even that much
data who's gonna sift through all that stuff?
Adam Curry: Well, the Oracle, they have a whole business and
they have a whole business doing that they sell your time and
time again,
Dave Jones: I'll tell you exactly where it gets super
creepy for me in we had a local, we had a local special election
because the house the Alabama State House and see that from my
district that I live in, the guy got kicked out for corruption.
So they had a special election. And it was between two people.
And the that now the district that I live in, is the most
crazy drone district you've ever seen in your life? I mean, it
looks like, you know, it looks like a spiral graph. It is crazy
all over the place. It makes no sense. So the only way that you
would determine. So I'm watching YouTube and watching a YouTube
video on my phone. And I started getting ads for one of the
candidates from House District 55. Which is my district. The
only way that you would know that, that I should get that ad
is if you know how your mind Xact if you know my exact house
address this tied to my IP address at that moment, and
Adam Curry: that's so that's so well known Dave. Yeah, no.
Dave Jones: And so I'm like, but it's most of the time you get
like local ads for car dealerships and things like
this. And it doesn't really, it doesn't show you how creepy the
tracking is. But then every now and then you'll get something
like that. And you're like, oh my god, they know exactly who I
am and where I live. Yeah, like the
Todd Cochran: day that it creeps you out day they know who and a
household listen to an ad. Okay, so that's, that's, that's the
crazy part. But I saw some demos before that. I mean, really,
this is why we are hardcore privacy, blueberry, I would
never employ any of that.
Mike Dell: That's so creepy. There's a new version of Wi Fi,
where they're able to map out the inside of your house, using
your Wi Fi router.
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. See where you're walking? Yeah.
Well, no, you need what you need as an anchor club advertiser to
do this, you know, fast moving consumer goods type type deal.
And someone who's willing to try it with you, you could, I guess
probably the smartest way to do it is to be nice to team up with
an advertising agency and make it there when you know, cut them
in for their for their 15% or whatever it is, you know, their
their media buy fee. But I think there's I've been in this
business. And I understand I understand it. And I also
understand that there is a real need for first of all this a
desirable audience is it just is it you could think about it, you
can say, how about this, along with my payment record, I'm
gonna leave that open for Alex guys to develop. It would say
I'm interested in political ads. I'm interested in food ads, you
know, you could tick some boxes, use the Google topics thing,
whatever. It's
Dave Jones: a good list,
Adam Curry: you can use all of that it's time. The only problem
here is we're treating our listeners are our troops and
customers as dirt as stupid dirt like you don't count Shut up.
You're not supposed to know what we're doing with you. Ah, we're
gonna throw this in your face. You're stupid dirt. We don't
care about you. And if you because people are smart people
like oh, right, you know, hey, look, give me a little bit of
value back for letting you this has always been the dream, opt
in, it'd be great. Okay. I mean, I've heard all of these, there's
been so many different versions of this, but we actually have
one. And we have, you know, 16,000 feeds that are using it.
And I would presume most of them are active. So, let's just do
times 10. Just to make it simple. That's how many
listeners there are. It's probably a lot more than if
people have the opportunity to opt into something and I get 10x
on my SAT that I send or whatever it is. I think I think
people would be amenable to it because they people want to
learn things they really do and you wouldn't have to be so
insulting with your ads either.
Dave Jones: Okay, I'm I'm allowed to talk about YouTube
retards. Not at this hour. I'm going to toss this as an ally.
Adam Curry: Let me just answer one thing Ice Cube soup. It's
less creepy because they don't have your IP address. They only
have what you just give them. Well let me spin on a lightning
payment is an animus there's no way to track where that came
from. So it turns the creepy upside down. Go ahead, Dave.
Dave Jones: So I still just don't think that YouTube is a
profitable company. I'm with you. And I don't think they're
profitable. I think they make tons of revenue. And I don't, I
don't see that they've made it. If they've made any profit it
has, it's so small that they're not willing to talk about it
publicly, because they don't release the numbers. And if
that's the, if that's true, then there that is the largest walled
garden of digital advertising that exists. It is a completely
captured platform, it has no competitor, YouTube, on the
video side of things is it has no competition. And if they
can't even make a decent profit or any profit at all, then this
is not this is not a this is not a workable system. Now their
overhead
Adam Curry: is huge. The overhead is huge. And you know,
you have to just the ingest, and the transcoding of all those cat
videos. But even then, it's you know, think about it just think
about, think about the Lightning Network, just as an opt in
identification system. And who said this, Spencer says his
people love getting 14 SATs a day from fountain when they
don't get it. They're all up in the telegram screeching about
it. Yeah. People like getting stuff for free. You know, that
one of the the most tried and trued ways of getting someone to
respond to a piece of mail you get in the mailbox, if someone
says here's $1. And they put $1 bill in there, it works. It's
still working radio
Mike Dell: stat system.
Adam Curry: The river, yeah. Yeah, for the Arbitron ratings.
But what's beautiful is there are tons of SDKs. There's all
kinds of, there's all kinds of programming bits and bobs around
for anybody to implement this into any system, any system. And
then, you know, people can maintain their own wallet, they
can maintain, you know, and it can just be an app means it
maybe it's just the advertising app, you know, all of this stuff
is totally possible. If we, if we take it, if we look at the
value for value as a identification mechanism, or an
opt in mechanism for a second instead of as, as a payment
mechanism. The thing I see it,
Todd Cochran: you know, I the company that shall be not named
and you know, they're raising their prices for ad free. Yeah.
And that's going global. At the same time. You know, I know
Adam, you can roll your eyes on some of this, but the AI search
is going to change Google's complete model on display
advertising, and
Adam Curry: they're gonna lose more money, they're gonna lose
more money, because it's very expensive to have everybody
using that kind of CPU power.
Todd Cochran: And at the same time, I'm afraid those of us
that have our own dot coms or FB work that much harder to be to
be found, because I think searches is about to be
completely destroyed. Now may
Adam Curry: ask your question about this. Do you really
believe most people find podcasts because of a search?
Todd Cochran: Do well, we know that we know that
Adam Curry: what's not What do you know what? What is? So it's,
it's definitely
Todd Cochran: not number one. It's, you know, it's me telling
my friend about podcasting. 2.0 Yes, but what happens, and I can
only use my show my tech show as a as the example. I pick up of a
percentage of people that come to the website, because they
have landed there because I've optimized the search results,
and being able to be from my episodes for that episode be
found. But again, it's it's a long term gameplay, it's it's
like, it's not the 1% No, not at all.
Adam Curry: It's not the most. This is why, and let's go right
back to pod roll. Let's go right back to remote items to the
interconnected RSS. Web of content that Dave is baking up
API's for. This is the future of discovery. The discovery is I
heard it on a podcast. This is a piece from a podcast, my app
lets me tap in. This is the best place to discover stuff. And
it's not just search. It comes from recommendations, it comes
from linked content, the way the web has always worked. That's,
that's what is the discovery mechanism.
Todd Cochran: Anytime I recommend a show in my podcast,
you know, I have audience members say hey, thanks for the
recommendation. So it's same thing with the pod roll if I if
I had 10 shows I said these the shows that I listened to that I
love. If my audience loves and trust me, they're gonna go try a
few of them.
Adam Curry: Allow me to give everybody an example. I was
listening to my buddy Cody. And he's tied into the music scene
in a way I had no idea I thought he was you know, kind of a rock
popular rock guy, but he seems to be very clued in and He plays
a song I'm like this is a great song. You know what, I'm going
to play it for y'all right now with a value time split watch it
show up in the chat room boost them vertigo kid very
appropriately titled pirate radio
it's dance break on podcasting 2.0.
Todd Cochran: Candles
Unknown: in the show?
Adam Curry: lot of booths thanks everybody. Vertigo kid pirate
radio just to prove we can still put something on the top of the
charts
Dave Jones: on the top but what do we have top
Adam Curry: 175 to 142 today top 140 Does it update every minute?
How often does it update? Our Oh, every hour? Okay, yeah.
Dave Jones: I've got a whole box of butterfly bandages and
smelling salts here. So I may have showed up with these
because I thought we were going to talk about alternate the
alternate feed alternate enclosure. I'm
Adam Curry: sorry, I you know, I, I here's the gavel. Okay, go
ahead.
Dave Jones: So, you've laid down the the gauntlet, Todd said,
alternate enclosure? Hell no. The the, but there's, there's
decent discussion about. So your your, I will let you have
opening comments. To say why you think this is a no, a no, no do
Todd Cochran: so it's simple. I understand the reason that you
did alternate enclosure, I understand completely understand
the argument. But we have trained podcasters for 19 years,
to ensure that they have a listing on Apple podcasts, or
their audio and video podcasts that they have to have to RSS
feeds. And no matter hate to say it, no matter what we do, it'll
be a cold day in hell, before Apple will implement alternate
enclosures. So we have a simple fix. Our and Mike actually came
up with this idea, just allow us to add a remote item that is an
alternate enclosure as an alternative. For those of us
that are not going to implement alternate clicks, what will
happen is if if I tell podcaster today, okay, so you got an audio
podcast, you got a video podcast and in you go ahead and put your
media file in for a one you put your media file and three other
do all your media data. Now, you need to do that work twice. By
putting it for your audio feed, you need to put your video feed
and for your video feed you need to put your audio con, it's very
It just adds work, where I can haven't set a remote item one
time they're done. And from that point forward, you will know
that geek News Central has a video feed on this other feed
without me ever having to do double the work and do double
the posting because I'm going to do I may continue to post my
episodes the way they are now. So that they can be compatible
with all the non podcasting 2.0 stuff. I understand what
podcasting 2.0 So we can do that we can have the best of both
worlds and all it takes is a remote item saying alternate
enclosure, boom, we're done.
Mike Dell: And I'm not totally against altered enclosure but,
you know, additive to this would be alternate feed that gives you
the option to do it alive you know and that's more compatible
way.
Todd Cochran: Yeah, that's what it should have been alternate
feeds excuse me, not alternate enclosure.
Adam Curry: Okay, I understand. Now I understand what you're
saying. So what you're saying is create two feeds but implemented
for podcasting 2.0 apps as a remote item, so people don't
have to subscribe to something additionally, they can select
that the app would know and would select it internally,
Todd Cochran: it would without having to actually do the
alternate enclosure because we're going to just continue to
do enclosures like they've always ever been. It was it was
decided a long, long, long long time ago that there would not be
two enclosures in a single feed I know things change podcasting
2.0 has changed that. But if I can have a podcast alternate
feed and the remote item, you'll know what my alternate beat is
Nick could only it could also be lower bandwidth, alternate
language, video, whatever we want to come up with.
Adam Curry: You know, I was I was very anti your thinking and
but now I understand what you're saying is like give the the two
point the modern apps, the capability to make the switch
with the existing subscription by just saying Oh, check it out.
There's an alternate there's a remote item here, this is for
video.
Todd Cochran: And it will allow the podcasting 2.0 apps to see
those of us that just stay on the one enclosure per deed
model. That ability to say okay, this show has five extra
alternate beans.
Dave Jones: Okay, let me okay, let me let me ask questions.
Just q&a. So, this really your main concern is alternate and
closure as a video audio mix. You're I'm assuming that you're
not opposed to alternate enclosure for those specific use
cases where people need a lower bandwidth version of the same
media type. So you would have the standard you know 96 or
128k. mp3 delivered through the enclosure and then possibly
inserting like a Every low bit rate source for like, chi iOS
phones or something like that as odd as an alternate audio
downgrade, so to speak.
Todd Cochran: Now, that at all?
Mike Dell: Yeah, there's no reason why we can't have both.
That's the thing.
Adam Curry: You want to keep your existing customers who have
two separate feeds, and you want to keep them that way, because
you've trained them that way. And I presume you're also
getting paid for two accounts. Maybe I'm wrong.
Mike Dell: You're not all hosting with us. But yeah,
Adam Curry: okay. All right. Well, that's understandable. And
I honestly sounds like a pretty good use of remote item.
Dave Jones: Well, okay, so the question to the is this a
problem that can be solved with just software so that somebody
uploads? A, they have their audio feed, they have their
video feed, just in the audio feed, as when they post to the
video feed? The audio of the two can cross pollinate? enclosures?
Yes, yeah.
Mike Dell: Well, we do that. Together. We do that with power
press already. You can have one blog post, and put as many media
files in different channels, which is different feeds as you
want. Okay, so it keeps the workload down when you're doing
audio video, the same show,
Adam Curry: right, so remote item on the video feed can point
to the audio feed Dave? Sure.
Mike Dell: And vice versa.
Dave Jones: Right, I guess what I'm saying is if the alternate
if adding a video source to the audio feed, is is more work?
Could you take away the work? By doing it for them when they do
when they're already doing the work?
Todd Cochran: Yeah, well, what will happen is, is again, this
will be a set and forget, we'll just say to Hey, do you want
your video feed to be a remote item in your audio feed, and
I'll click the button one time and what we'll include it
forevermore, and it'll just happen when they publish the
episode shows like Mike said, when people at least in our
system, when they published, when I push publish an episode
of Geek News Central, I do one blog post, but there's two feeds
tied to the blog. So it's
Adam Curry: really it's really using a modern system to fix a
legacy problem. Because there's already so many video feeds that
people have created. In addition, I presume, in addition
to their audio feed. So you implement the ultimate
enclosure, which will be the way for the way forward personally,
I think, but you can also do it this way.
Todd Cochran: Yeah, there's no item would be for folks like us
that don't want to retrain our audience. And again, the and
then that will allow the apps to pick either or,
Mike Dell: then in theory, you could have it so that it does
both.
Adam Curry: That's what I'm saying. Yeah, it can, it can be
either been an alternate enclosure, or it can be a remote
item, alternate feed, which is video or audio or
Mike Dell: all those antique apps working, you know,
backwards compatibility.
Dave Jones: So there's, you did not propose an actual tag spec.
You just proposed it as an idea. Yeah. So
Mike Dell: it's an idea. I'm not a bride a dove. So I
Dave Jones: went, you know, I went looking for prior art in
this pod in a pod love has an alternate feed specification
going back to like 2012. It uses the atom link thing, which is,
you know, they're gonna get pissed off, because we already
were in swap chapters on him.
Todd Cochran: But Davey, you're already re going to revise
remote items so that anything in the remote item is going to have
a type. So why don't you just make this a new type gear that
goes along with that revision?
Dave Jones: Yeah, and I'm just, I'm just thinking, I would read
I think long term, looking at in the future, and importing the
atom namespace into the unknown. It's done a lot. But, you know,
the whole, the whole goal for the podcast namespace is to get
is to have something that's holistic and self contained. You
know, I hate to bring in a spec and say, Okay, well, yeah. Okay,
now go get the Adam namespace and do it this way. Like, this
just doesn't seem to be there doesn't seem to be fitting this
and I'm not seeing this alternate feed used very much.
Same this this goes back to potluck chapters. Now, I love
those. I mean, I really love what pod love does, except, you
know, the chapter spec that they that they invent, it just never
got any traction. And it's the same it seems to be the same
thing with their alternate feeds back and it's like
Mike Dell: our namespace didn't get a whole lot of traction
either other than amongst Yeah, yeah,
Adam Curry: there's one reason why you know who your daddy is.
I mean, that's why you got to know your daddy.
Dave Jones: So if you get some, I'm just thinking, you know, I
don't want to just willy nilly Throw away prior art. But there
just doesn't seem to if it's not used, I don't see that as very
much of a big deal.
Todd Cochran: James is throwing his headset down right now. So I
wouldn't, I wouldn't get rid of all no closure. No, no, of
course not. No,
Adam Curry: I think this is. But I love this idea because it's a
complete valid use of the remote item, which is really from for
me, the remote item is the future of RSS, podcasting, and
RSS in general, the remote item is critical, critical to
everything we're going to do moving forward. It's just, it's
beautiful. You know, once we get the tools in, where I mean, even
playing a clip from we talk about it, but we don't actually
have an interface or anything. If I play a clip from a
different podcast, boom, remote item, all of this stuff should
should be, it should be part of our normal workflow. And
crickets,
Todd Cochran: you know, the remote item, that remote item
piece, really, I made my whole dev team listen to the last
podcasting to Pinocchio from about the 45 minute mark,
because, people but yeah, you guys,
Mike Dell: you know, you don't like namespace, namespace? You
beautifully
Todd Cochran: explained. Me? Somehow I'm given feedback
today. I don't know what's going on. I'm gonna have to check the
knobs. It basically is a I think it is I think this remote item
is the key to a lot of stuff.
Dave Jones: It finally brings in links. Yeah, which, which is
what makes the web the web and what makes it decentralized.
Because if you don't have linkage between between
different pieces of content, then you don't have you don't
have a truly decentralized way to crawl from one place to
another. So the remote Adam just is it allows you to do what the
web's done is it links things together. So like, I heard James
on pod news, weekly review, asking, what is, you know,
what's the point of putting the data and say it that way? Um, he
said it better than that. But he didn't understand necessarily
why we were putting the value time splits in the API
responses. And it's for this reason is because once you see
it, now you have linkage. So I can say, okay, here is a value.
Here's eight, a feed that also has links to other feeds the
same things is the same thing with POD roll. Yeah, here's a
feed that now links to other feeds. When you when you begin
to build this web Oh, man showed? Yeah, like now you've
got real. So the whole reason you can't do proper podcast,
excuse me proper searching and podcast is because so Google
PageRank. Google PageRank is built on inbound links. That's
always been the core of PageRank is you can look at how many
links point to to a source to determine some desert term, it's
a measure of its popularity or its relevance. Pocket, there's
no way to do that in podcasting. There's no there's not. But now
you can if you have remote items, you can have this notion
of inbound links. If if 100 podcasts reference, a remote
item pointing to new media show, well, then that's a really good
indicator that there's something going on and new media show that
should up its game in the Discovery Trail.
Todd Cochran: If you go back to the blog days, we all had blog
roles on her website, because it's the folks that we read. And
that was our that was our signal that we thought this is a good
source of content, always. inbound links to
Mike Dell: stuff we liked
Adam Curry: is the is the current implementation.
Buzzsprout is doing a pod roll. They're doing that as a remote
item Dave? Remote item type equals pod roll.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it was it's the pod roll tag with the remote
item as a child. Yeah. Okay.
Todd Cochran: All right. And I like what they did over there,
if you went look at their interface, the page and how
they're displaying that to listeners, and then you know,
that's the first step. And then the apps are going to be able to
surface that to listeners as well within the app, keeping
them in the app. This is it's this is beautiful. There's gonna
be
Adam Curry: a developer out there who's going to create the
pod browser, even though I hate to put your word pod but pod
browser is going to be an app where you just go from one to
the next from a song to this to that to a lecture to whatever to
a book. I can, you know, we need the hosting companies to add the
interfaces, but we'll get there.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we'll get there.
Mike Dell: But I think a lot of this is, you know, going to get
away from apps in general, but you know, there's things get
cranked down tighter and tighter. It's gonna move a lot
of this stuff's gonna move to the just the plain old web. You
know, as far as
Todd Cochran: our PWA is
Mike Dell: PWA To You know, because at some point, you know,
Apple's gonna say, well, we don't like, x or whatever, and
they're out of the app store.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Well, yeah, well, that yeah, that's that's
in that, you know, we are inevitable. We gotta you know
what, what we got from Mitch this past week was that some was
the podcast or had complained to Apple's App Store, about Mitch
having one of their podcasts on his app. Like they didn't go
throughout, you know, they they complained to app review or not.
Yeah, yeah. And so they and then Apple reached out to Mitch and
was like, Hey, we got a complaint that you have
unauthorized content on your app. And it was a big, it was a
big pain in the butt.
Adam Curry: Yeah. By the way, Andrew Gromit. This is for you,
brother. There's your project. The pod, pod browser. Good idea.
PWA pod browser, pod attitude.
Todd Cochran: There's a product we offer to our podcasters. It's
called Quick Links. And it's basically the ability for them
to kind of have a link tree type of page just kind of shows up
other stuff. We're going to add pod roll to that in various
different places within the platform. Oh, yeah.
Adam Curry: I'm sure pod page will roll it out. Sure. The this
is good stuff. I don't know where to go from here. So we
thank some people because I've just been getting lots and lots
and lots of booster grams. I want to give a couple of top
2100 SATs from Macintosh. Can I throw something out? Please? No.
And the next boost I'm sorry. As a podcaster an avid listener, I
want one thing to whomever needs to hear this app dev app
developers, I believe stop the futzing around, implement cross
app comments. The other podcast 2.0 Abs are not your enemy. If
anyone has an enemy it is Apple and Spotify and such it will
make a huge difference in developing communities and
creating a better experience. I have no interest in hacks to
make this stuff work as Nike says just do it. Thanks,
Macintosh. There's your listener feedback. Thank you Macintosh
10,000 SATs from Sam Sethi coming through on that pod fans.
Loving this. Loving this alternate enclosure chat. We
already support the alternate enclosure and pod fans and
support video but remote item is good to support legacy feeds and
and it's going to be the way forward as we just discussed.
Salty crayon freedom boost 1776 boosting is loving. Yes it is.
Another 10,000 from Sam Ceci Sam Sethi pod fans. Is your
advertisement from Sam Sethi for today. Pod fans was the first to
support the pod roll and we have created an admin for creators to
build their own pod roll while we wait for host to catch up
indeed. Very good. big proponent of the pod roll 20,000 SATs from
Absa verdient we're all pirates. Yes, thank you. I was for the
pirate song. And then we have Max space Luke 50,000 SATs this
is this is my second booster Graham Ever After sending one to
Chris at Linux unplugged on the Jupiter broadcasting network
from Chris's unfilter show and did Chris hit me in the mouth on
unfiltered way out as a place we could go now that unfilter was
no more I'm a total fanboy for no agenda. And now of course
that leads to podcasting 2.0 and Mo facts and boosted Graham both
thanks for you all Adam, David, the whole team do for everybody
that what you do for everybody day in day out? Go podcasting.
Thank you. Sam Sethi is feeling flushed today. Another 10,000.
No tracking set needed. We have time listed, percent completed
and value paid. The advertiser puts in a budget and the
negative set flows goes from the advertiser to the listener. We
already do this with trailers. Yeah, there's pod fans specific
to pod fans. Yeah, any app can do this. I just think we're
thinking more of it on a bigger basis. But Sam, another 10,000.
We'll take as many 10,000 sat booster grants from us. You want
Sam? I'll keep reading them. Adam, we have created that ad
model. Do you want to demo we already we are ready to release
it. We will use negative SATs with value time splits to pay
users to listen to ads and split the payment to podcast creators.
If you skip you get nothing. Yeah. Yes. And I'd love to see
if it works. Because then we can do it from a more decentralized
way and not just one app that does I think that's perfect,
unless I'm misunderstanding and interesting to the value times
that you put you put that in on top of the feed. We'll have to
get some information from Sam.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we need Sam back on the show anyway, yeah,
Adam Curry: we do. We do. If he but then you know he'll have two
booths during his own show otherwise we know we don't have
the income. We guess it's better than I'm Sam on remote taking a
nice row of ducks 22,222 from salty cray on how to pod sage
slash pod father putting together a value for value music
podcast is a lot of fun and a lot of work but I'm having a
blast doing it. I was able to use the magic wallet switching
technology with RSS blue for my first show. I found out from
Dobby Das, I was the first person to use it in that way. I
love it. Thanks for putting in all the backend work so we can
create these podcasts and it's the upbeats podcast. Well Don't
thank us ma'am. There's there's a whole crew of gypsies out
there who are responsible for this.
Dave Jones: And we can say that we've been given authors we have
yes from the actual jibs from the
Adam Curry: actual gypsy says it's okay. Eric p p 33,333. We
have su pipe pipe CD 4444 sets freedom eagles. Sir TJ the
wrathful with 1953 Guru is great, please you want to see
yes, he's on podcast guru. No bad signal for any apps for me
today. They normally work in pod verse and Guru and addicts. And
I just got it to if Guru can make it so I can share playlists
and it controls like shuffle and repeat for all when music is
playing. Oh baby, go podcasting. Alright, stay off the pipe. TJ
thanks 71 from anonymous using pod verse love in the boardroom.
And I think that's it. That's what we have so far. You want to
read what we have. What's coming during the week Dave?
Dave Jones: Dow it gets pay pals in this one ought to be
familiar. Because it's $250 from blueberry podcasting our very
own 20
Adam Curry: is blades on am Paula thank you. Blueberry.
Podcasting. Thank you. Thank you fellas. Thank you guys. It's
really good
Todd Cochran: to hit your API more we need to send you some
money.
Dave Jones: My API get it we've got to speak the devil Franco
Celerio we talked about gas medic earlier $100 back
Adam Curry: thank you Franco supporting everything. We
support each other. I love it.
Dave Jones: And we've got a $25 debt no note between $5 donation
from Brian Mosier. I don't know who that is. So thank you,
Brian.
Adam Curry: We appreciate it.
Dave Jones: Brian, appreciate that. You got to note shoot me
one more we did get some boosts we got 10,000 sets from Star I
think star is associated with the web's podcast Right. to I
think that's I think that's you know Whitney Webb
Adam Curry: oh sorry. Yeah, she's Whitney Webb Yeah, she
produces Yes. Okay. Yeah, good 1000
Dave Jones: says from store said Table of Contents sanity
restored laws.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I noticed a number of apps actually handled
Table of Contents properly.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. Those it's it's happening. Yeah. Pod father
asks and people give you
Adam Curry: Well, I only got one message this week from one
person who said chapters are messed up that's a good sign.
But yeah, they sent me a screenshot I don't know what the
app to show what app is it showing what app that is so we
can work on it. Thank you. Thank you Dev is perfect. I love it
Dave Jones: up in 1984 4000 says two fountains that being able to
remove booths from Chapter image would be a welcome feature I
mainly listen to booster green ball either while at work or
when driving if I hear an artist like I like I just screenshot
the chapter art and then look them up later my free time. Oh
that's a good idea.
Adam Curry: Well right now depending on the app you use,
you can just go into the podcast guru it's the V for V logo it
gives you all the songs right there so you can play them boost
them screen them I think save them soon fountain does this
that's the way to go. Yeah, it saves your screenshot
Dave Jones: Jean Everett 3333 through fountain he says got a
hard agree I don't want anything but the podcast are displayed I
really do not like the booths popping up in place of art cover
well, so here's we have talked about this gene been and Franco
had a discussion on email that I was included in about
Adam Curry: back back channeling
Dave Jones: back you know Jean beanies back Chandler you back
channeling from the from the lander, Jimmy Carter. So, he's
he said, if you have a chapter that has an image, this table of
contents equals false. Do you still include The chapter title
along with displaying the chapter or do you just display
the current chapter title? Should the titled also be
hidden? If it's Table of Contents faults?
Adam Curry: Oh, good question, I
Dave Jones: guess. And I'm not talking about in the chapter
list I'm gonna be played on the display. Hmm. And I kind of
think it should because you may it may be a link but that's but
I think that's a point of clarification that we need
people to
Adam Curry: Dred Scott literally just a yes no. What is that? He
says he's the chapter title should be easy. Yes. No. chapter
title should be shown. I think the chapter title. So if it's a
boost, should it? Should it have a chapter title if it's not a
TOC?
Dave Jones: Well, I'm gonna say this. I mean, Dred Scott is the
previous chapter Meister Yeah, he's the chief chapter
architect. And I mean, when he speaks, we listen that that
counts for much weight so I'm gonna say yes, no.
Adam Curry: If TOC false chapter title and link need to be shown.
He does. Yeah, okay. Okay. All right. All right. Well, there
you go. What IMHO it is your H O. U R. H O chapter Whoa it's
your
Dave Jones: it's your it's just your Oh Your opinion is Oh,
Chapter ho Great show the cert okay sir truck driver 3333
through fountain says if you look at the times when booths
come in after show is uploaded you can use that info to see
when listeners actually listened assuming they boost while
listening that's trackable info for listener demographics it
absolutely yes. And well anonymized. Be mozzie Brian
mozzie says 44/44 of fountain he says don't love the boost images
but don't hate them. Talk the toggling would be appreciated,
or at least reduced duration agree 6969 from ASA doesn't he
bought verse. Hey, Adam. Okay, drunk drink. Quick drunk a gram
asking, what is V for Vela?
Adam Curry: gotta read a drunk. Drunk.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Have the as had been my people have said to
value splits for covers samples. Are we still the persecuted
minority doomed to be mocked by the people who would keep us on
our knees?
Adam Curry: What is he asking?
Dave Jones: I don't know. He said drunker Graham.
Adam Curry: Thanks for more, do more. Drink more. Send more.
Dave Jones: Roy ROI ROI is bad. Roi. scheinfeld
Adam Curry: ROI. There you go. What does ROI say?
Dave Jones: 543213. Bracy. Just says Dave, please check your
telegram.
Adam Curry: That's the way that's the way to get our
attention.
Dave Jones: That's a way to get a boost. This is a good boost
strategy. Just don't ever check my email or telegram. And then
make people boosts me to promote me to check it. I
Adam Curry: had a quick back and forth with Roy. And they're
starting on wallet switching technology for the breeze app
next week. Sweet. Yes. Nice. Nice. I'm very appreciative of
that. Because, you know, they're focusing much more on being an
SDK company. And I said, Hey, man, just so you know, I use the
breeze app as my actual payment app. That's my app. So I love
it. And I'd love to be able to still listen to podcasts on it
with music. It's because I got a lot of dough sitting in my
wallet there. Want to give it away.
Dave Jones: But to do dope, Jean been 2020 to speak of the devil
cast ematic he says do any app support playing any of the list
of medium feeds full of remote items yet? AKA feeds like you
described for Ainsley? I don't think I'm going to assume that's
one of Stephen B's apps does because his apps do everything
so but he would have to tell us which one I'm thinking LNBs
probably does. But Stephen will
Adam Curry: that's an app I actually use me to I mean I just
pop it open and just hit play on some top item and it responds
beautifully again, I see a lot of disconnects from from Aldi
which sucks because you know, like, oh, how long has it been
disconnected? You know?
Dave Jones: And then maybe the nature of PW A's two.
Adam Curry: All right, we need some info on that. Yeah,
Dave Jones: the anonymous 5000 SATs through pod verse. Add
luchar is the stumbling block, though does cast. But add luchar
is the stumbling block thou dost cast before thy brother when
thou does fail to return value for his works. Calculations 3333
Adam Curry: No false idols here. A
Dave Jones: mere mortals podcast or buddy Karen 2020 through
fountain nice, thank you. Thanks for the chat tips very helpful.
I've also been slightly disappointed with Buzzsprout
adoption of new tags, even ones they asked for aka pod roll.
Well, they fixed it. They do. And that problem is solved
that's the whole reason I moved my shows to them was for the
exciting new things. The same reason I'm now moving Show's
over to blueberry. Viva tags.
Adam Curry: Viva la tags
Dave Jones: as I've had beers with Tom and he said they've got
they've been backed up with a big projects. I think they're
gonna think they're gonna start coming out soon. Cool. Yeah.
Let's see we got 5150 from Orange frog. Did you get down?
non-stories again?
Adam Curry: I've seen orange frog
Dave Jones: bounced into breeze again for this past week's
listening time. Always a delight to jump into different podcast
apps. Thanks. Yeah, yeah, it's
Adam Curry: a great app.
Dave Jones: Oak man delimiter comma street blogger 30 215
through fountain. He says Howdy, Dave and Adam. Please invite
your listeners to visit my blog at www dot CSB dot lol for my
cartoons with buffoons into follow me on Twitter slash x et
et Cie SB just three letters C S and B. I will follow back yo
Adam Curry: sbsp Yo, yo back at you, brother. Thank you
Dave Jones: we we got some monthlies thanks. Call Mr.
Bulger cousin mother's you got to pay dragon cat was it $5 That
you had Pharaoh at $22.20. We've got a Cameron rose at $25. Thank
you. A Scott Jalbert at $12. And Speak of the devil Brendan at
pod pod page $25. New media that's Marcus lindskog at $1.
And Mark Graham was $1. And that's our group.
Adam Curry: Oh, thank you all so much value for value is the name
of the game. If you want to learn more about add value for
value dot info value number four value dot info. It even has some
handy guides there. If you want to learn about it. We appreciate
everything that you send us it keeps the machine running it
keeps a nice, a nice buffer for us in case we hit some harder
times so we can keep everything running. Keep the podcast index
alive. And of course, everything that we have in Satoshis goes on
to the node and we use that for liquidity for anybody who needs
it just hit me up. Adam mccurry.com or Adam at podcast
index dot social. And if you want to give us some Fiat fun
coupons always appreciated as well go to podcast index.org
down at the bottom. Big red buttons one for tally coin. I
know we we did it seems like there was another tally coin
that came in on the last show. Because one was 95,564 from
chimp. And then there was a 211,273 from anonymous. Oh, I
don't think we mentioned the anonymous. Oh, thank you for
that.
Mike Dell: Thank you latterly Anonymous is from pod vs.
Because every time it disconnects, you got to put your
name in there again.
Adam Curry: I was that true? Yeah. That's
Mike Dell: earlier that was
Adam Curry: oh, I didn't know that. Oh, interesting.
Dave Jones: Bug. I bet Mitchell fix. Go. Yeah.
Adam Curry: I love Mitch is like, hey, you know what, when
did this happen? When did we do this? He's been so busy. It was
dinging is that you Todd? Who's dinging?
Todd Cochran: I'm sorry.
Adam Curry: All right. You've been craquelin and all kinds of
there's something weird with your your setup, which is odd.
I'm not sure. Well, When
Dave Jones: is Halloween?
Mike Dell: Not how was a full moon a couple of days ago.
Adam Curry: That'll do it every single time. So anything you
guys want to share with us before we before we leave? And
by the way, thank you for being here in in the boardroom. We
always appreciate you here.
Mike Dell: Yeah, my pleasure. For sure.
Todd Cochran: We got one thing you know, Dave, last week or
week before he said there was you aren't ready to go to war. I
think what we need to do is battle armor up because Nick
Adams, right, you know, every time and I'm gonna say it. So
get your boost ready? Anytime someone says they have a YouTube
podcast boost, you immediately asked them either in a comment
or wherever he says, Okay, where can I find you on a podcast app?
And if they look at you weird, then say, Hey, I'm not going to
listen to your show until you're in a podcast app. And and maybe
we'll get these folks over some time to understand that they
need an RSS feed. Oh, good. And I've been telling my audience
the same thing. You know, I actually said my auntie to
someone tells you they've got a podcast on the name that won't
be named. Ask them if that you know if they're on a podcast app
because you want to subscribe. And if they don't then maybe at
least trigger them to say oh, what is this RSS thing? So maybe
we can do it subtly without having to beat them over the
head with a hammer.
Dave Jones: I think you're I think you're right. Because I
mean that Here's the whole thing. The whole thing is, I'm
of the opinion that the whole YouTube thing in general is a
scam cooked up by the by the PSE. I agree because the the
whole, you read these, read these studies, and they say,
YouTube is the biggest app for podcasts for people listening to
podcasts. And then you read the next study that says, we know
how many podcasts how many popular podcasts are on YouTube,
like five. Now, these obviously don't mesh. So somebody's lying
here. Because if you can't find any of your podcasts on YouTube,
but your YouTube is the biggest thing for podcasting, I'm just
gonna have to call bullshit on that.
Mike Dell: The average person doesn't know the difference.
Today, I was physical therapy. And I, you know, I told him, you
know, he asked me what I do for a living. It's I worked for a
podcast company. Oh, I watch a lot of podcasts. And I know he
wasn't talking about, you know, wasn't talking about an actual
RSS feed video.
Todd Cochran: So I follow a couple of YouTube channels that
have so called podcast and I've sent them a note said, Hey, I
can't find you on my podcast app where you guys had and they they
finally responsive. What do you mean? And I told him so it's
again, I think it's a crater site it's a little education
listeners are gonna do with listeners are going to do But
may we get the the what I would call from a white term Akamai,
the smart listeners to be able to start to help us in this
crusade?
Dave Jones: And let me tell you why. Let me tell you tell you
why that matters. in the broader sense for for for things like
this show and for the podcast community is that these studies
that are show that are trying to conflate YouTube with
podcasting, though, they be sure the listeners are going to do
what they're going to do. But these studies are aimed at pot
the podcast, quote unquote, industry. Yes. And it is it is
convincing podcasters of something that is not accurate.
It's telling a lie to the people who are actually doing
podcasting. No other industry does this. No other industry
tries to convince its members that the thing that they are is
not what they are. And we listen, this doesn't work,
Adam Curry: except in the pharma industry.
Todd Cochran: We should not be fooled, we should not be fooled,
they are trying to lock us back into walled gardens. I have to
remember that
Adam Curry: all right. So here's my recommendation. Stop talking
about them. Stop talking about this only behooves them this is
the divide and conquer strategy which is as old as the road to
Rome. Stop talking about them. That's it You know you want to
talk about that. I've nothing to say the here's my i This is my
podcast app. This is what I use. This is what I like about it.
And here's the other podcast apps I use as the podcast
industrial complex is designed to have you Todd specifically
you talk about this stuff. And the more you talk about it the
more interest there is
Todd Cochran: no I definitely have been super positive to help
that.
Adam Curry: But it doesn't Alright, Thank you Mitch D for
5000 SATs. He says anonymous bugs should be fixed in the next
release been talking with CSP about it's 7777 from Mike
Newman, who sent us a Tod you to boost our morale. And then we
got to 23,456 satoshi 23456 Was that you again Mike says
boosting MC boost boost armor up
Mike Dell: that wasn't me. Oh, that's
Adam Curry: injured. How that doesn't happen often you get
armor up to in a row. Well, thank you for anonymous or
someone who's who had a name but the budget to anonymous. Just
and there's Dred Scott 23456 Dang it pod verse change my
boost MC boost. donemus. There you go. He's up to 50,000. All
right. Hey, we got to stop doing this. People are sending us too
many Satoshis. Gentlemen, thank you both very much for being in
the board. And we always appreciate you having you here.
And thank you for all that you're doing to move the needle
forward. I think you're really smart. Because I know Todd, you
had a revelation. This was about a year and a half ago. And I'm
very glad you followed your your gut instinct on this. I think
it's bids and made a huge difference. And Mike thank you
for for the yeoman's job that you do with teaching everybody
this all of the individuals who who show up at your door wanting
to know which mouse button to click to what is value for
value. I know it's not easy. I know it's not easy to export.
Alright everybody Thank you everyone in the chat room. Thank
you everyone to podcasting next out social, your board meeting.
We will return next week on Friday again if Tiny Tim is
alive, we'll see you then everybody.
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit
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