Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0 for November 10 2023, Episode
154, feta find blob Oh, hello, everybody, it's time once again,
for podcasting 2.0 only born from the hazards champagne room.
Here's where we discuss the current state of the art in
podcasting. What's coming in the future what is happening right
now everything going on at podcast index.org The namespace
podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. That's not dirt on his
hands. It's just a little bit of rust. Say hello to my friend on
the other end ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Jones.
Dave Jones: So, yes, a young discovered tonight at dinner
young people have they don't understand humor? They're afraid
of it.
Adam Curry: They're afraid of it. Yes. I believe they're
afraid of you. They're terrified
Dave Jones: to laugh at things in front of other people.
Adam Curry: Oh, that's horrible. Yes. You can't do that. Like
they don't understand
Dave Jones: that. Like, jokes about culture. cultural things
are not the same thing as being mean. No, like, no. So we go to
India, we go to the Indian restaurant. Oh,
Adam Curry: and did you go a nice data your head how you
doing? No, I did not say that. Okay, that was that will be me.
Dave Jones: There was a picture. Let me see. Let me send you this
picture. So when we get home, okay. Picture out. There's a
picture on the wall. Yes.
Adam Curry: You took a picture of the picture on the wall. You
did know I found
Dave Jones: it on the internet when I got home because I didn't
know that this was okay. Let me see. Okay, so here's this.
Here's this link.
Adam Curry: Something. Okay. Yeah, this looks like some
important dude. It does. Yeah, it looks like looks like Indian
Santa Claus. Is that
because we are the same Dave Jones. I'm certainly. So putting
this in the show notes.
Dave Jones: At the Indian restaurant in the first thing I
said, I was like, Who is that? Is that Indian Santa Claus.
Adam Curry: Your kids were mortified. My daughter
Dave Jones: was like, Dad, she's looking around like she just
bought drugs. And I was like, awesome. Like, I'm like, it's
funny. Like, I'm like, okay, that's not disrespectful.
Adam Curry: it to make it make
Dave Jones: people laugh at American stuff all the time. You
know why? Because?
Adam Curry: Exactly. We're ridiculous. Oh, man, that is so
that's too much. Yes. I totally get that. I see it right away.
Yes. Indian Santa Claus. Yeah.
Dave Jones: This is a very important guy. Oh, yeah. No
Adam Curry: doubt. Well, that's as Sam said that he can. He can
tell us we'll put it in the show notes. Ladies and gentlemen.
This is your podcasting. 2.0 board meeting after dark. That's
right. Welcome to the to the lounge where we discuss
everything going on with podcasting. How're you doing?
Mr. Jones? Can I pour you a martini?
Dave Jones: Yes. Better. You have a cigar. You
Adam Curry: know, I gave up the smoking. Right? Yeah, you
Dave Jones: get a new grill. You don't want to tarnish it?
Adam Curry: Do not not and you know what? I am good with my
lungs. I think I polluted them for about 45 of the 59 years
that I've been on this earth. I'm pretty good. Now I'm just
going for the liver. I'm going to
Dave Jones: see we can damage the moving target. You've moved
targets down to the liver. Yes.
Adam Curry: But I can understand that. You know, if if you and I
were truly in this in this lounge, and you know, I think
I'd probably want a martini and I think I just might even just
to hold it. I might want a cigarette you know, just like
they just hold it. There's this great documentary about Frank
Sinatra on Netflix. What's it called? Give it to Sinatra?
Dave Jones: It's no creative name.
Adam Curry: It's it's mainly about his life in Palm Springs.
And, and what I mean for the time, right, it's no longer that
time. But one of the awesome kind of life that must have been
hanging out with his boys, you know, going out every night to a
different restaurant.
Dave Jones: Yeah, the Rat
Adam Curry: Pack the well no, no, he Well, The Rat Pack was
the Vegas thing but this was just his guys okay. And he would
read the Palm Springs newspaper every morning and anyone who
seemed in trouble you call up his lawyers had send them money.
Dave Jones: Well, I just love to be that guy. Oh, yeah. What a
stood. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah, but you wouldn't tell anybody It only
found out about this way after his death.
Dave Jones: Oh, so he's the Walmart. He's the Walmart is
yes. Secret Secret Santa?
Adam Curry: Yes. From India? Yes. And I want it since we're
here in the lounge. I just wanted to say Dave Jones. Thank
you for all that you do with podcasting? 2.0 Thank you for
all the things that you do. You are not praised enough. I would
have to say your habit dancing girl.
Dave Jones: Thank you, Nan pray I'm praised. Plenty and too
much. No,
Adam Curry: not enough. No, I don't think so. I don't think I
was walking with Phoebe and like, come on. We gotta get you
gotta go. You gotta poop before the show. And you're thinking,
you know? And I think maybe it's because you weren't feeling
well. How are you feeling now, by the way?
Dave Jones: Oh, I'm great. I'm like,
Adam Curry: You're not coughing. Okay.
Dave Jones: This cough is this is one of those calls where it
calls for I can tell as it carves, like, that's a plural.
Whatever that is. Yes. That you can just tell it's going to be
around for a month. Yeah, it's Oh,
Adam Curry: I hate those. Yeah, those suck
Dave Jones: it up, get rid of it's just like this just niggles
at, you know, I
Adam Curry: think it's the older I get, I just the more I look at
fatality or mortality, I should say, I just look at it. And I
think, dude, I want to be doing this for a long time with you. I
really do. I wanted to have to do less responsibility, you
know, the Fed defying the index is a great mission that we're
on. Now,
Dave Jones: which I have, which I have, I have things to reveal.
Adam Curry: Let's Why don't we why don't we start with that?
Because that's, so people have to understand, although we've
never really discussed it, I think per se as a as a mission
is become an an almost an unspoken mission that you and I
agree on, just in our soul, is you know, we need to eliminate
ourselves. The index has to eventually be eliminated into
something that makes this that everything just works without
relying on us. And when I say us, I mean the index, because of
course without us it all falls apart. But but the index so
yeah, so that's the term I'm using feta fie feta. fIying. The
index i
Dave Jones: like that term. Yeah,
Adam Curry: that's a good term. Yeah, I wonder if it's is an
actual verb.
Dave Jones: It is now that sounds as you can silicon
Silicon Valley can turn anything into it, but just take just take
out
Adam Curry: the edge take out the vowels. Yeah, for different
for the finger. For the fingers finishing the
Dave Jones: so the ES the eye. And also this is going to take
years. I mean, that's just it's clear that because it's so hard,
you know,
Adam Curry: no, that's not true. If you just use hive it'll be
working tomorrow you know that?
Dave Jones: Yes, that's true. We haven't had our call with no
Adam Curry: we haven't we have we have to because he's gonna
show us how to do it. Yeah, right.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's gonna it's gonna take a long time. So
this is like it's I've honestly see this project now as the as
the life that this life mission to to fortify the the index so
that so that podcasting and its data is just this big, amorphous
decentralized fat a fat blob, feta FIDE blob. Nice, yes.
Verified blog.
Adam Curry: It's kind of something we some people want to
be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. We want to feticide blob,
you
Dave Jones: get no recognition for that. Like, that's not
you're not in any Hall of Fame's for that. That's just the thing
you do and then you die.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yes. Yeah, correct. You
Dave Jones: have fun doing it?
Adam Curry: Yeah. Oh, have lots of fun. That's the whole point.
Dave Jones: So what I've been what I've been working on this
week. Do you want to see it?
Adam Curry: Oh, you Oh, you wait me you have something you have
show until you have your link. Do you have a PowerPoint for the
boardroom? Widgets. Okay. Oh, all right. What are you gonna
give me here?
Dave Jones: Well, okay, like, let me let me find a podcast
real quick. What? Let's see, what can we do podcasts? Let's
do club random because we mentioned as Bill Maher's. Okay,
podcast because I had been listening to that a lot as it
gets you
Adam Curry: a lot out of it. HBO show and I'll tell you that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, his podcast is actually really good.
Adam Curry: Because he has all kinds of cool people on from all
across the spectrum.
Dave Jones: And he argued, he had Neil deGrasse Tyson. He just
heard that.
Adam Curry: And in that case, the video was kind of fun just
to watch. Neil deGrasse Tyson get all uncomfortable. It's
pretty funny to watch that.
Dave Jones: He was he was like, at one point he sold him he's
like You're ridiculous.
Adam Curry: Pretty much
Dave Jones: yeah let's see okay so pick podcasting index slash
social no agenda social any any Mastodon instance you have okay
I have one podcast index dot social in the search like you're
going to search for somebody to follow type in 5195196349634
Adam Curry: That would be the podcast index ID for
Dave Jones: club random with Bill Maher okay 99636340 At okay
at AP AP dot podcast index.org
Adam Curry: Wow this is sexy
Dave Jones: AP obviously standing for activity book.
Adam Curry: Whoa,
Dave Jones: follow get home What
Adam Curry: is this? What is this sexy stuff? All right 40
posts
Dave Jones: but we got a lot to talk about here with this
Adam Curry: I have to browse more on the original profile
though. Yeah. Which takes me which takes me to the okay
Dave Jones: a bunch of JSON yep
Adam Curry: I'm still I'm still amazed by what I just saw. So
I'm basically I'm seeing a profile called Club random with
Bill Bill Maher it has the app that 5199 64 At apt a pocket
podcast index.org It has the show description Bill Maher
rewrites the rules of podcasting the way it did in the television
in the series of one up truncated. It's truncated and it
says 40 posts and says bra Okay, so clearly something sexy has
happened in here.
Dave Jones: Okay, so what there is now there is now a server
running at a P dot podcast index.org another server it's
actually repurposed so it was with his not add to our to our
monthly bills. Okay, I
Adam Curry: approve all these things immediately, you know,
improve on whatever you want to do.
Dave Jones: The Alright, so this is an activity. I'm writing an
activity pub server. Brit bridge, so this is going to
Adam Curry: bridge Yes, yes, the
Dave Jones: index to activity, man. And so this is
Adam Curry: the next alpha the next step is bridging pod ping
to this north that down the line? Well,
Dave Jones: we'll we'll Britt eventually bridge everything's
we'll put the index everywhere that people are man. So but on
but on the back end, pod ping will also be into blood p2p. So
that'll be it'll be in a DHT space. We're, you know, there's
this is sort of the front end bridge, that'll be the back end.
Adam Curry: The back end is the blob that we don't really have
to know about. We just see the front end front end interfaces
Dave Jones: doing his job yet, right. Wow. That Okay, so the,
the, the service, what I started with was how do you know how do
you write the most like minimal activity pub server possible?
Adam Curry: Oh, I do that in rust?
Dave Jones: Yes, that's exactly how did you know
Adam Curry: I'm putting two and two together day.
Dave Jones: So this, this, this server I've learned a whole lot
about activity pub this week. One thing I learned is that all
the frustrations of people that talk about activity pub being
too tied in like the the activity pub people that are
frustrated with Mastodon, that is a that is a real thing. And I
now fully understand it. That's a valid complaint. Okay, it is
very valid. Yes. Because what Mastodon Mastodon does its own
thing, and it's loosely compliant with activity. But in
it's not in what it doesn't do things in the ways that make
sense. So you don't there's a lot of little gotchas. But so
here, here's what's happening when you search in this will
help people understand activity, but because it's actually not as
complicated as it sounds. And under the covers is pretty, it's
a pretty easy thing. So when you quit when you just searched what
what Matt, what Mastodon does, is it immediately sends a web
finger query. So web this this web finger query is web
Adam Curry: finger. Sorry, it
Dave Jones: sing it plays that plays that jingle Yes. Sends a
get request. After it's finished, it sends a GET request
to the to API dot podcast index.org/dot well known slash
web finger the end with the with a resource of 5199634. That's
the parameters. You're right, right
Adam Curry: and there and then it then it says, Hello mailbox
what you got? Yeah.
Dave Jones: And it's like, okay, what what it's resolving that is
trying to resolve that to some actual data about this account.
And then at that, we're at that web finger address. There's a
JSON document that lists a bunch of URLs, one of which is what's
called inactivity pub speak, the actor. So the so the actor in
this instance, is 5199634, at AP dot podcast, index.org. And all
the act all an actor is, is just a JSON document describing
specifically LD JSON that describes or JSON LD describes,
in detail, just
Adam Curry: got all the stuff here, we've got followers
following features. It's got all that stuff in there.
Dave Jones: Right. And so the so that's, so that's what happens
next. So it looks up that does the web finger gets the URL for
the actors document it and then and then calls it to get details
about the profile for some reason Mastodon calls with
finger again, I don't know why. I still haven't figured that
part out. I don't know what it's doing under the covers. But then
we wouldn't
Adam Curry: have a public key here to authenticate that it's
the real deal.
Dave Jones: Yes. So activity pub or I don't know that it's
required in the spec but Mastodon for certainly requires
that did Yes, signing, right that the requests are signed,
got
Adam Curry: a podcast, good here, all kinds of groovy stuff.
Dave Jones: So then, next thing it does is when it gets that
actor document, the actor lists out a bunch of URLs, one of
which are is your inbox URL, right, your outbox URL? The
Fall, your feature lowers endpoint and the featured
endpoint so you're so the featured endpoint is what are
your your pinned posts. So if you call the featured endpoint
you're gonna get back a list of pinned posts for that account.
If you call the the outbox you're going to get a list a
list of like a page or five list of all the posts that that actor
has has posted all the notes that they share to ensure
followers as a list of all the followers blah blah blah. So
which by
Adam Curry: itself would be startling and amazing in
podcasting to see who else is following just saying
Dave Jones: so right up front you cannot follow this account
yet. Right? You can click follow and your server will think as
you're following it but nothing is actually happening right
right in the read the reason for that is inactivity pub world and
specifically in Mastodon this made me rephrase that inactivity
post world things are posted to inboxes that's how people get
things Yeah,
Adam Curry: so if you're following then you get that post
to your inbox right so
Dave Jones: if you follow when you click the Follow button and
Mastodon to follow club random 5199634 It's what it should do
is send a signed request to the 5199634 inbox URL on on AP dot
podcast index.org with an action of follow and then apt up I
guess index.org should respond and say accepted that's what
should happen for some reason Mastodon is not doing that
Adam Curry: right I even see Council follow because I would
presume that there has to be some handshake here after I
follow it has to say yes, you're following me so it's giving I
just refresh the page to see if it had an extra follow or does
not but it says cancel follow so that means that my activity pub
account is waiting for some confirmation I guess.
Dave Jones: Right it's waiting for a confirmation but it's but
it's never gonna get one because it's not sending it and I don't
know why. Right. So they there's a lot of things. Why not sure a
white man Well it's Bill Maher's. So there's a lot
there's a lot of things that there's a lot of questions I
still have. Because this this, it took me about a week to get
to this point.
Adam Curry: Wow, while you were sick even that's amazing
Dave Jones: of having sort of the framework necessary to take
step two. So here's the here's the things that I'm still
bothered by that I don't have answers to. And I think in Allah
and some of this, I found out that mass these are Mastodon
related issues. So. So here if the outbox URL, if you if you
click on that or go to that, you get a list of all of the of all
the posts, which should which are episodes. Now, let me see if
I can actually let me see if I can pull that
Adam Curry: up. I can I can go right now go to let's see. Oh,
Dave Jones: here it is. Eric peepee. actually posted it come
he posted it in the chat.
Adam Curry: Okay, is it? Oh, yeah, yeah, boom, there it is.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay. So these are, these are episodes. Okay,
so that part works. Well, okay. And so what is happening is you
hit the outbox URL 45199634 on the AP dot podcast, index.org
server. It makes an API call in the background to get all the
list of all the episodes and returns all the episodes as if
they were Mastodon, or excuse me activity pub posts. That part
works. But what you would think would happen is that when you
search for that podcast, and it shows you his profile of the
Bill Maher show that you see all the posts, see all the posts
there, right, the mastodon doesn't do that. Okay. Now Don
does not read the outbox and show you the old posts.
Adam Curry: Now, how is this different from? Because this is
so we're still hitting our server?
Dave Jones: Yes, yes. For now. Okay. Yes.
Adam Curry: How does this fit in FY
Dave Jones: because it makes the it fed if edifies it by with
this, this is this activity pub server software. The repos
private right now because it's got keys and stuff in it. And I
was strip all those out. I'm going to put make it public. Oh,
and then then fetishize is then anybody? You we because there
could be 10 of these. Right?
Adam Curry: Right. Right. And anyone anyone can start what up?
Yeah, I got it. I got it. Right. In fact, there should be 100 up.
Yeah,
Dave Jones: sure. Right. And so you would just, we can load you
know, we can load balance it or through Cloudflare and give it
all a DNS round robin, who knows how we're going to do it. But
we'll figure that part out later. So Mastodon does not show
the outbox. Of of old posts, which irritates the snot out of
you know, I understand. That's it. So that's an issue. Also
Mastadon caches profiles of show. So if I search for a show,
now, like you just did with this one. It's not it seems to be
just stuck. It's static until something else happens. I don't
know how it doesn't seem to refresh in on any sort of
timeframe. Like so if something changes, like, I don't know how
to make that, that update? Maybe that change it, maybe maybe it
starts updating when it starts getting inbox notifications? I
don't know. We hadn't got there yet. In order for the following
to work, so that you can follow the show, we're going to need a
database.
Adam Curry: Yes. Well, that's that's the next part. Yeah.
Yeah. So
Dave Jones: we were going to need a SQLite database in this
thing, so that when follow requests come in, we can note
who it is. And then in the database, and which shows they
follow.
Adam Curry: So you're talking about a feta FIDE blob that
includes the activity pub server and a SQL database hanging off
of it. That's a Docker, Docker. Well, you
Dave Jones: know what this is, this is just this is how the
same controller
Adam Curry: is what it is.
Dave Jones: Not it? No, this is not this is free to controller
to point to foreigners. Yes. This is this is the helipad
framework.
Adam Curry: There you go. Yeah, I got you.
Dave Jones: I got you. It's literally the same code just
reengineered to be an activity post server is SQLite database.
It's literally the same framework. I love it. We've
already got all right stuff there. And I'm
Adam Curry: already deployed. So we just upgrade my helipad and
and add those bits to it. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you just turn your helipad into an activity.
pubs are just
Adam Curry: fine. I'm good for it. I got five gigabits per
second, I'm good.
Dave Jones: So there's, so there's that. So we're going to
need a database next. So we can keep track of all the follows.
And here's, here's, here's a big one that I did a need. I'm
saying all this out. So people hear you and help you and help
me Yes, I need information. If anybody knows why any of this
stuff necessarily doesn't work, and also advice, because right
now you're searching with podcast index IDs, because
they're easy. Maybe they should maybe we shouldn't be tying
these to podcasts indexed IDs, maybe they should be tied to
Google. It's feed URLs or some, like, I don't know how to
address these in a way that's best information, man, new shit
has come to light information. You know, I don't know. I'm
gonna do it's are long and complicated and hard to get hard
to type. You know, somebody is going to be searching for
something that's, I don't know, this, this. That is something
that I think I need people to think about and have suggestions
for.
Adam Curry: This is a great start, though. I'm excited just
by seeing this part. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I get this far. And I'm like, okay, all right, stop.
Let's discuss publicly and come up with some things before I get
too far down a path that we're gonna have to unroll, you know,
Adam Curry: right. Well, while we're on that, then all right.
When it comes to Mastodon as specifically podcast, index dot
social, I would like to make a public appeal. Can we not start
threads that are DMS. There's too much of that going on.
People start with red tag a whole bunch of people, and it's
only visible to those people. And here's why I don't like it.
One is rude. Because exclusionary, it's like, okay,
we're in a secret club, we're discussing this in the back
room. Don't like it, too. When you invite someone into that
thread, they can't see the rest of the posts. So if you're
tagged in this, you get no context. It doesn't work.
There's no reason we need to be doing I really, honestly, this
happens on Norwegian the social.com as well, I despise
it. That you know, send me an email if it's an any and even
it's back channeling I don't like back channeling. We have
this this. We've put this in place so that everybody can
contribute. We don't do it in the open. Other people can't see
it. You're excluding people. You may be excluding someone with
the answer.
Dave Jones: to true, very true. Yes. So I totally, totally agree
a second this okay. Past
Adam Curry: emotion, emotion emotion is is passed. Yeah. It's
just like, let's not do that. Let's let's not do that. I don't
like I don't like back channels. This is where podcasting went
wrong. 10 to 13 years ago, back channels, Slack channels,
they're still out there. I know, they're out there. Veteran Vitus
to it. I don't lose not mean, I don't know if you've been
invited to any slack channel. Oh, no,
Dave Jones: I have not thank God, I don't want to be in any
of that stuff,
Adam Curry: you know, and then, and then stuff starts to happen.
And then people don't know. And then when you know, then we're
in a bind. So it's not I've
Dave Jones: got way too many ways today. To get my attention
already. I need fewer not more.
Adam Curry: Exactly. In public is great. Public is good at
this. That's the way it
Dave Jones: should be. Open it code should be open source and
should so should.
Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Dave Jones: It's Yes. You know, a lot of people are saying good.
I'm totally fine with that, that, that, you know, we gotta
figure out a way we got to figure out if that's easy enough
for this to be usable. So Well, let's
Adam Curry: talk about guid for a second because that was one of
the long threads. I don't know if that was a private thread or
not. But people like I love Alex gates. He's like me, it's like
I'm going to reply to you and I'm making it now public. That'd
be I'm making it not private boom public. Okay. Everyone's
like, what what is what I don't know, what's the context of
this? So there's a lot of there's a couple of things that
I have my list that have been going I don't even know where
it's a private threat or not, from now on everything is going
to be public goods. There's a question about this goods in
general goods as a centralized system. That would and I think
we're answering this maybe some of this now with do we feta fie
good? lookups do we need lots of good lookups I believe in Gu
IDs, I think it's the right way to go so that we don't have to
rely on me up. So when something changes, you know, to me, it's
like DNS a good is like DNS. Write up, you know, I can have
curry.com And I can hook that up to any server, I want to I can
change it at a whim and go it should be essentially the same
thing except the GUID brings in a whole bunch of other goodness,
good goodness. Do we have a concept for persons? Because
this is part of the conversation is person gooeys for persons or
what do we do? Yeah. Well, I
Dave Jones: want to, I want to talk about that to
Adam Curry: the where are we?
Dave Jones: Are we done with activity? Pub?
Adam Curry: Well, I think it falls into it, doesn't it? As
the as you as you wish. Yeah. Yeah. What I heard was, somebody
Dave Jones: did come back to the let's, let's come back to the
activity. But we'll talk about goo goo, it's in people's. Yeah,
this conversation like, this has been necessary for a while that,
that we need some way to. Alright, the person tag allows
you to define all the characteristics of the person.
But it doesn't have a way to sort of like unique globally,
uniquely identify that. Your specific you're specifying that
information in every single podcast. And episode, you're
not. There's no central repository for, you know, if I'm
if I'm Adam curry, and I'm wanting to put myself into this
thing. How does How do we know that this this data query over
here is the same one as the one over there? Brian? Yeah, I think
that some sort of Gu ID makes sense for all of these things.
Like, it also makes sense for these this notion of channels.
Adam Curry: Yes. Which is also on my list. Yes. Yeah. Do you
want a handy one to do all this in one go?
Dave Jones: Well, I think it's all the same. Yeah. It?
Adam Curry: I think I think you're right, yeah.
Dave Jones: So the thing with podcast goo is, is they're
defined in the feed, because the feed is the source of truth,
payment for itself. You know, the feed the feed defines
itself, sort of, like, sort of like an actor in activity pub.
It defines itself, it's got an ID in there. And literally, the
ID is the URL of the page you're looking at. It's like, it's,
it's, it's a atomic entity. So the same thing with with
podcast, if you're gonna have you're gonna have pocket the
idea here with podcast goods, if people are using us for looking
at goods and translating them to feed URLs, but you don't have to
Brian love Brown of London also has a feed, good resolver
service. The ideal, the idea, and the future is that, you
know, a people could download our database today and crank up
have a good resolver service in two seconds. Right? That's what
Brian did. Yes, I think his code is public. We can have as many
of these as we want. It doesn't have to be us. So all you got to
do is read all the feeds and look at their Gu IDs, and then
you got a database. Yes. But the persons and so the let's talk
about so like person Gu ID. That's a little different. That
seems to need to be defined outside of it, because the feed
is not the source of truth for a person. The feeds only the
source of truth for itself. Yeah. A feed can't be the source
of truth for Adam curry. So there it has this, the GUID to
person relationship has to be it has to be like reside elsewhere.
And I mean, I think just somebody just needs to build
that service.
Adam Curry: Is there anything like it that exists already?
Dave Jones: I mean, like, the closest thing I can think of
would be something like Wikipedia, you
Adam Curry: know? Yeah, but not everybody has a wiki page. And
that's right is not easy to get one you get you used to be able
to set up a setup page up for yourself. Yeah. So we can if you
build a service, you still need a validation.
Dave Jones: You know what I mean? What do you mean by that?
What do you mean validation?
Adam Curry: Okay, I'm Adam curry. How do we validate that?
I'm Adam curry.
Dave Jones: Yes. I'm not sure that we even need a validation
for that.
Adam Curry: Okay. Well, go look at go look at Twitter. And look
how many Adam curry fake accounts there are. And tell me
we don't need a validation for it. No,
Dave Jones: no, no, what I'm saying is we don't have
validation for it. You can't nobody. There's no validation
for anything in RSS, right. And so if we, if we, if you say you
know if you say you're Adam curry and you have your profile
picture and your link
Adam Curry: by the way, I could see this and go ahead. Well
doesn't make sense. Okay. So if I have a podcast, and I'm Adam
curry part of that podcast, why can't I put something into that
feed, which by definition is going to so the feed is the
source of truth. And I put into that feed. This is the guy who
you hear in this podcast. You know what I mean? No, no, no,
don't think of following. Okay, so a podcast has people working
on this podcast. This? Well, let's take this podcast,
podcasting. 2.0. And in this podcast, I put two person GUID,
Dave Jones and Adam curry. Okay, we are automatically associated
with this podcast. And there's no one who can dispute that
because you're listening to it. This is this is our podcast,
this is our feed. This is our source of truth. So in in that
feed, why don't we have as a part of the channel item, two
person goods. And it's Adam and Dave. And then and then that can
be either a remote item or can be looked up whatever it is. But
that's, that's our we just, you know, it can be whatever,
whatever number it is, doesn't matter. But the source of truth.
To me, this, our podcast feed is more than a source of truth than
anything else for who's me.
Dave Jones: You know what I mean? So your, your say, so let
me, let me repeat this back to you and make sure I understand.
So you're saying that, since you own the podcast, you can define
yourself, and then everybody else respects that because they
know that you're the feed owner? Yeah. Yes. And so then if you
show up somewhere else, with that same as a person tag with
that same good, it's like, well, yeah, that's that's legit.
Adam Curry: Person sounds like this. That's obviously you're
40. Okay. Yes. That idea?
Dave Jones: Human validation through natural means. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, okay. So,
Adam Curry: when we look, I have my banking details, basically,
in my feed. Here's my wallet. Send me money. Yeah, that's,
that's pretty important. So isn't it just as valid as my end
is lots of stuff you can validate against? Hey, I just
sent you a payment. Yes, I got it. What was it? 33 sites? Okay,
check.
Dave Jones: Verified. Okay. Okay. So here's, here's a good
question. What is the problem we're trying to solve?
Adam Curry: I think the only problem? Okay, what are we
trying to solve? I don't know. I forgot. I think I think the
problem was okay, so chances are the couple of things going on
here. There's, there's the idea of a publisher channel that
people have been talking about. It's like, okay, I'm a
publisher. And I have a number of podcasts under my channel. I
don't really know why I need that. But people tell me I do.
So maybe I can certainly see how it works for music. How an
artist wants to have a a feed or a channel or a channel, I guess
with remote items. Being your albums, stuff, you've worked on
things, other people stuff, you're a part of, kind of that
web interlocking interlinking thing we've been talking about.
Does that make sense? Yeah. So So I think, I don't know. I
don't really know if there's a problem. I think it's an
enhancement that we want to add to make it easier for people to
group stuff.
Dave Jones: If it feels like it feels like here's, let's let's
keep it let's keep it with persons for now. So that we can
because that seems more we already have a tag for that. And
it seems more easy Lasorda easier to get grasp. The it
seems like what the apps are wanting to do. The problem
that's trying to be solved here is something along the lines of
show me all of the podcasts where Adam curry has appeared.
Adam Curry: Yes, that's one thing. Yes.
Dave Jones: So then, in that sort of that solves your music
artists issue as well. Because then you can just say show me
all the podcasts where Ainsley Costello Yes. Is the you know,
roast
Adam Curry: right but now it's kind of freeform it can be Adam
curry can be a curry Adam Clark curry. You know, anyone could
enter that and if so, to have a unique identifier for that would
be desirable.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so yeah, that's right, Steven. So I think
it is to find all the shows that same person. Yeah. I'm thinking
that if you know if that's the case, you just need you need a
static identifier that just stretches So, you know, the you,
Adam curry is defined on the person tag in this show with Gu
ID 12345678. And then on the mere mortals podcast chyron
inserts a person tag for his episode interview with you. And
it's also good 12345678. And we just know, across podcasting
that anytime we see the GUID 12345678 That's Adam curry.
Yeah. So there's got to be. That's why. That's why I said
earlier, I think it just feels like somebody needs to just
build that service. Somebody needs to build a service that
says, where you can just you could just go, like, read put in
time, I can just envision a simplistic thing where you just
say, okay, Adam, Adam curry, here's my, here's my avatar,
here's a link to my bio, click, it gives you back a Gu ID. And
then that becomes your first step, because you stick that in
your person tag. And now you're also registered in this like
database. Like there's this centralized database that's open
source that everybody has access to,
Adam Curry: which we can later identify? Yes.
Dave Jones: Like, you know, it's just like, it just, it doesn't
seem to have it, I can see this sort of central place that
people go to, for create these identities. I mean, hell, it can
even give you like a, you know, PGP key or a nostril key or
whatever it wasn't,
Adam Curry: I wasn't going to try it on the N word, but
Dave Jones: but it's just like he could generate those things
for me, right? Well,
Adam Curry: how about this? This is I'm just going off the wall
here. Isn't that what a DNS domain name is?
Dave Jones: Yeah. What? A unique identifier? You me. Yeah.
Adam Curry: My identifier is curry.com. And here's here's a
thing in my TX T field. Record.
Dave Jones: Oh, you mean for vote for proof of a possible?
Adam Curry: Too much like too much. I took it too far. Well,
Dave Jones: see, this is like the Nippo. Five and all this
good. Like, yeah,
Adam Curry: I'm not I'm not I'm not that interested in that in
the validation part is less interesting than just having it.
You see, I
Dave Jones: think, yeah, I agree. That's, that's where I'm
at. I'm just not sure you have to be validated. Like, it's
because you're valid. Like you said, the validation is the fact
that that's in the field, put your feet that you own, right.
And so like if Bill Maher has an identity, a Gu ID of eight, six,
you know, ACM 654321. In his feed, it's like, well, that's
him. That's his news feed. Right, right. And then everybody
else that uses that they're referencing him like you have
this random Bill Maher that has some crazy good that no, but
that doesn't exist anywhere else except this one instance. You
can ignore that because that's bogus. Like it just it feels
like it's easy to ignore the fake ones because there's going
to be so many instances of the right one being used.
Adam Curry: And right now, we're only talking about a person good
as it relates to people who are creators. Because if you're a
guest and you don't have a podcast, then you don't have a
source of truth. You're basically not real real person,
Dave Jones: you know what I mean? But you're basically
you're basically Neil deGrasse Tyson
Adam Curry: I think we should keep it does I like this I'd
like this to me is let's keep it simple because I can already see
the 5000 posts thread on this which I'm not that interested
in.
Dave Jones: With private with private mentions. Yes.
Adam Curry: Yeah. But just you know, like well, we have this
and we have to have that we could talk about this for a long
long time. But I liked the idea of just having a in your feed.
I'm Adam curry and what is the actual What is the need to take
a look what is the what are the fields what are the tags that we
have right now?
Dave Jones: In the namespace
Adam Curry: now Yeah, well now just in RSS by itself for the in
the feed so in the feed we have
Dave Jones: the like author and stuff Yeah. What
Adam Curry: is the what is the actual webmaster webmaster? Oh,
Dave Jones: that's an old school.
Adam Curry: It's very old school. Says Managing Editor
Wow, there's all this what kind of bullcrap is all this?
Dave Jones: Managing Editor forget about Yeah, we should
just because Dave wonder wanted it to be, you know, one of the
New York Times New York. Yes.
Adam Curry: So we should we should add a tag for this.
Dave Jones: No? Yeah. Yeah, that
Adam Curry: person person. Good. So anyway, so right now we have
podcast person, right? And maybe we just add a type equals in
this case, how about that? So we don't have to go too crazy but
podcast person. And and here we have URL image and then group
role but that's part of the text harmony taxonomy. And then we
just need a GUID equals.
Dave Jones: Is that simple? Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at sort
of the conversation in the chat. And there's, there's a lot of
people talking about with finger and that kind of thing. That's
an interesting idea. Because you could, if you wanted to bring in
a validation piece, what you could do is something like, what
you could reference like your activity pub account. Because,
you know, like, you could go and say, like your actor, your actor
ID URL. You can say, this is me. This is me, this is my Gu ID, my
Gu ID is, you know, we're saying we're using the term GUID. And
we're thinking about these long strings of numbers separated by
dashes. But it doesn't necessarily have to be that I
mean, in activity pub, your identity is not a Gu ID it is a
URL. Right? Right. Right. And so if, if you have, if those
identities were URLs, that's fine, then you could have, you
could also have the ability to then sign with your, with your
public key, I mean, with your private key, and they could be
validated with the public key. So it feels like other people
could say, Okay, you put your actor ID in there, your actor
URL, it's gonna have your public key in it, and you can do
validation that and then the, these, in these end these, these
apps, if they choose to, can also validate you if they want
to go that extra step. How
Adam Curry: do we get the podcast standards group to
accept this?
Dave Jones: Begging we beg we beg it is it? I think, I mean,
Adam Curry: you know, what's a great what? A great unique
identifier, an email address. Let's put that that's exactly
what it was. That was that was the identifier. And we had to
take it out. Because a cast was spamming everybody. Good work,
everybody. Good work.
Dave Jones: Yep. And you know, who, and people were bringing up
pod chaser being this, they cast bought them to
Adam Curry: bastards? That was literally the perfect
identifier. Because you had email someone you can, you know,
it's like it was perfect. No, we had to get rid of that. I think
I think we just force it to go back.
Dave Jones: Now, and everything's just email
addresses, again, all the way down.
Adam Curry: It's perfect. And we're all the way back to the
podcast cars, right? We're all the way back to square one. It
was so perfect. It's exactly what you want. How do you
identify someone by the email address is perfect. And then
we'll get spam.
Dave Jones: I think the thing I think if we, if we can figure
out some way to be able to reference an activity public
count. I think that's a pretty I think that's pretty strong.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm good with that. Yeah, that's, that's
pretty cool. Because you can take that with you from server
to server.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. And then like, I'm actually getting
pretty high on that.
Adam Curry: Oh, hold on a second. Here we go. Ladies and
gentlemen. All right. How are you feeling now? Is that when
finger making you feel good?
Dave Jones: You just cruised into some hot namespace talk
without playing the jingle or you get a yellow card.
Adam Curry: Some so sorry.
Dave Jones: I think that would work.
Adam Curry: I'm all Yeah. Okay. I'm good with that.
Dave Jones: open discussion for people to do give ideas. Yeah.
Yes. Fire away. Fire away. Well, there will be plenty.
Adam Curry: Yeah, and from that, I think flows. Everything else
can kind of flow. But it really comes down to and it's it's
wonderful watching Dolby das and Barry. How they put things
together for the artists for music podcasts. Because they're
making it they're making assumptions to hear they're just
they're just doing stuff and I really love looking I haven't
looked at pod home.fm But I want to go through both the the
podcasts, path and the music path. But there's a lot of
interesting stuff happening this year if you've been following
this is our C code. Discussion.
Dave Jones: I 's or I don't know, I don't know, this is news
to me. Well,
Adam Curry: believe it or not, there's a GUID for recordings.
It's the internet is RC international standard recording
code, which enables an ISP like an ISP completely, which enables
sound recordings and music videos to be uniquely and
permanently identified is RC helps to avoid ambiguity among
recordings and simplifies the management of rights when
recordings are used across different formats. So this is an
open an open database, I believe it has an API, and anybody can
submit their recording, I believe I have not done any of
this work myself. And the idea is that you can register and so
it's not the song. It's not the copyright is the actual
recording itself. So if you add an AI SRC code into your ID,
that will be that will be a unique identifier. That actually
would be a that would be a great unique identifier. For that's a
good it's a good I don't care what you call it. It's a good
right there. You don't need anything else. That's a good
done. That number is a good of course, if you're at pod fans,
it's already a part of the interface.
Dave Jones: As of today, yes, as
Adam Curry: of today, it's you can already go and edit your RSS
feed at pod fans, and make whatever you want to make.
So I think these are all great ideas. I don't know if ASRC code
has to be a separate tag or if it can just be a GUID. The, to
me it feels like that's a good for identifying a unique
recording.
Dave Jones: So is there a hash that goes with it? I mean, like
does it does it take the recording and somehow hash it?
Adam Curry: The structure of ice SRC comprises 12 alphanumeric
characters, which you'll be presented with the four
character prefix is RC when displayed in printed form? So I
think they you you register and it sends you back a code
Dave Jones: see the code I don't know what that code really is. I
was
Adam Curry: like is RCA dash six Q seven dash two Oh dash oh four
seven is okay i SRC code identifier, the prefix code five
character alphanumeric code allocated by the I SRC agency.
And then you get the year of reference. That's the last two
digits of the year, followed by the five digit unique code
assigned by the registrant.
Dave Jones: Brother this is like this is like how you figured out
if your tires are old. You read the code and you
Adam Curry: change toys and 12 year my beer was born on
November 1. There you go. Right. Okay. Well, it's, it's something
that Julie Costello brought up and Julie Costello is really
interesting. She'll send me an email said, hey, you know, this
might be off the wall. But we had a question about an artist
who wonder if you could put an is our C code into RSS to track
a song has been uploaded. And I go that's interesting. And then
I find out that she's talked to Sir Spencer and Abel Kirby.
She's talked to everybody about she's building consensus in her
own little back channel, which is funny by itself. Yes, you're
getting back channel now. Oh, yeah. And before you know it,
like Oh, Dobby, Das has already put it in. Okay, and now it's in
pot fans. It's not really a tag yet, but okay. So this one's got
it in his TLV. So there there is prior art already, but it's
something that we need to look at. And I would suggest, if
somebody wants that as a tag, then put it in the GitHub but
let's let's do these let's put let's put proposals in if you
got something that you liked, that's working make it a
proposal. Or Or yeah, what is it discussion so it can become so
it can become a what's the next What's up from proposal?
Dave Jones: Attaboy good job as Dan has been very neglectful,
kind of purposely about the namespace repository because
like, you know, we're not that far removed from from from the
last phase and and trying to get some I'm trying to get some some
code written do Yeah. And as to Matt, I can't have split
attention in a million places. So the, at some, at some point,
I'm going to finish, I'm gonna get this code to a good point.
And then just like, flip back, probably towards the end of this
month, just flip back to like, full time for a couple of weeks
namespace stuff to get caught up on and get things cleaned up on
that. So yeah, proposals for sure. And if there's no post
commentary proposed, yeah. So I was looking for, yes, there's no
commentary from me Don't don't think it's been, you know, it's
dad or something. It's just that we'll we'll get there in a
little while ago,
Adam Curry: I heard I heard, I was doing the show prep today,
listening to podcast, weekly review, pod, Newsweek, Newsweek,
and an hour. And James Cridland said, we should probably remove
some tags from the namespace that are just not being used.
I'm kind of against that. I think if we've, if we've
approved something for the namespace, even if it's not
used, it should just be there. Because there's stuff that that
I've seen in namespaces that was not used, for instance, to the
media, RSS, for example. Now, it didn't go anywhere. But man, it
got a lot of attention. Because, you know, it's like, oh, there's
a lot of good stuff in here. That even though no one's really
using it could be used for something else. I feel like,
once we've approved something to go into the namespace, it may be
a next generation that says, Oh, look at this, they because it
also shows an idea. Even if it's not picked up. Now, sometimes
things get picked up, like pod roll, I think is an excellent
example. Actually. You know, it lingered for a year at least.
And then you know, all of a sudden, it gets picked up. And
then it gets implemented. So I'm not I don't think we should be
cleaning stuff up or removing it.
Dave Jones: 1,000% No, I agree with
Adam Curry: you. Yeah. It's like no, just even if I agree, 1,000%
Dave Jones: No, I don't think anything should be to come. He
can just if it's gonna die, it'll just die. I mean, it
doesn't have to be it. I mean, look at activity pub. It took 10
years for anybody to do much of anything with that spec.
Adam Curry: That's right. It was good. NEW SOCIAL wasn't it
wasn't that's what it was initially. Yeah.
Dave Jones: And then and then Mastodon picked it up and ran
with ran with it. And now it's a huge deal. I mean, it Live it
really did languish for many, many years before anybody do
anything with it. So like, like alternative closure, very little
used hardly at all. But the idea is so solid and so sound that
one of these days, I host may see it and be like, You know
what? That is? We need to do this because we have a specific
use case. Yes, pod fans in depth.
Adam Curry: We have a use case with POD fans. We need to start
doing that right away. Yeah,
Dave Jones: like you might be the right. The right use meats
the right time.
Adam Curry: That exactly it just is just the timing of stuff.
Absolutely. That's the way
Dave Jones: and once you put something in you cannot take it
back out. Right, you really can't without break because it
might break some people out there using it and also now
they're out of spec. I disagree with that. I also don't think
that I think the podcast Android project is doing a fine job. I
wish they updated anything wrong.
Adam Curry: I keep looking at the GitHub in the end you know,
they I don't I don't see pod rolling their GitHub. This is
what I don't understand. I
Dave Jones: think their job is to move at glacial speed. Yes,
our job is to move at the speed at the speed of you know
scissors atomic broccoli, broccoli and the bed there their
job is to move very very very slow and they're doing their job
if I don't if they move fast things are going to get messed
up
Adam Curry: I agree
Dave Jones: that they don't know that moving fast is a is a is a
liability for a group like that whereas it's a feature for us so
yeah, not I don't have any problem with the way they went
the way they went the way they roll. Yes they didn't good
couple other
Adam Curry: things that came up and this it's interesting to see
this okay categories is a is a is a big hot button. And it's
really a hot button for one person. So Libra because he does
show a music podcast about which is thrash metal music and he
can't find thrash metal music. Now, so the idea was, we were
what we discussed last we touched on the so this is not
the same as medium equals type. This medium type equals this is
categories and we you and I discussed in the previous board
meeting and everyone was here. They all heard it They were
sitting on the beanbags. Are you trying to prove this prove the
proof I prove everyone was here knows everybody knows it. Yeah,
everyone knows it. That we talked about freeform
categories.
Dave Jones: We did, yes. Now this vouch for this. So
Adam Curry: there seems to be some some, this is where you
have. Okay, so apple won't accept that. And what that
means? I don't know. I don't know what that is. Well, it's
like, well, Apple categories don't work that way. So I'm not
quite sure. I don't know. I don't know what that means. I
just feel pushed back about, there's people I'm in favor of
it. I'm like, Okay, there's couple things I'm in favor of
tagging stuff however you want to tag it. Hashtags have worked
great. Yes, there's hashtag abuse. And there's you know, and
that's a separate I'll put that over here for a second because
there's people me Oh, if I see hashtag abuse, that's usually
something I block. I'm like, I'm not interested in what you're
doing. Because you're doing you're just spamming but I
personally feel hashtag free form categories are a good idea.
Is that something we need to codify? What do we need to do to
to get that solidified?
Dave Jones: That's see this. This is the same sort of
discussion as person and channels and did you introduce
crack open a cold one?
Adam Curry: Yes. Pabst Blue Ribbon, you better believe that?
PBR baby,
Dave Jones: the so there's a there's a sense here in which
this is all okay. Um, so I'm trying to wrap my head around
this, this category of issue. Because these, this really is
the same sort of thing as a person identifiers, channel
identifiers. And and then we can also say, freeform categories.
So there's going to, there's going to exist in this in this
world that we envision there's going to exist somewhere a list
of these freeform categories as people use them. So that's what
happens like on Twitter and Mastodon, you go to tight you
start typing a free freeform hashtag in it gives you
suggestions of like, this is what other people have done that
are like what you've typed in, so then you usually look at it
and you're like, Oh, I was about to type, you know, hashtag a
Olympics 2024 But it's actually you know, 80 million people are
using a Olympics 20
Adam Curry: Right, which Okay, so let me read the post that
triggers us because what I am doing here is I'm just your eyes
and ears on the street. I mean, the gutter. I mean, the podcast
gutter laying down looking at the mud that people are slinging
all over the place. You
Dave Jones: get it? You're get you were in a ghillie suit?
Exactly.
Adam Curry: Certainly, we desperately need a mechanism to
signal music genres, the sooner the better. Each day more albums
get added that will need to be modified after we figure it out.
I know only a small percentage will go back and add genres to
their feeds effectively orphaning them from futures on
genre searches. I was hoping that category tag would be on
the way, by the way, a private post. Dumb and then okay, so and
then here is the discussion. Quote, Apple will never extend
their categories. Okay, so this is where this is all backchannel
stuff, this is what I despise. So much so this wasn't out in
the open, so we really should just ignore it totally. But I
think I understand where this is coming from. Because we're we
are running at a very fast speed with music. stuff is coming in
and, and as a guy who played does as a podcast filled with
music, not necessarily music cast, that's the next topic. I
understand, you know, it's like, okay, people just throwing stuff
up. And I have to listen to everything before I can figure
out what it is. Which for me is okay. I mean, there's not that
much. I mean, I listen to everything new that comes out.
But having having categories that people can use when they
when they're uploading either podcast, and I agree that I
think podcasts there's more hashtags or categories that can
be used for podcast descriptions, and for music. So
I guess the question is, is this a tag that we declare reform.
And then again, you're right with this our lookup service
that sends back hints. I mean, I'm not sure what to do here,
Dave,
Dave Jones: this is this is this category of problem is there
seems to be it, you'd need to make this work, you'd need a
lookup service, right?
Adam Curry: We don't want to be there for all of these. We don't
want to be that. Well,
Dave Jones: I mean, we will always be all of these things,
you know. But really, it needs to be something that is it, it
needs to be something that's doable by more people than just
us. And that, you know, I don't mind. So, this gets back to sort
of, okay, we get front, you got front end, you get back. And so
the front end of interface to podcast data. We're working on
that with these things like activity pub bridge. And the
API, you know, the the back end needs to be federated, I'm using
that term loosely, into something that is more like
IPFS. Where this data doesn't have to reside in the podcast
index. It will, in will always reside there. But it's more like
the podcast index is a participant in a system where
everybody has this data.
Adam Curry: Right? So okay, so you're right. So we, in essence,
we have to be at first in parallel, we're running to
distribute this so everybody can be the lookup service.
Dave Jones: Yes. And like I would love for the lookup
service to be something like some sort of DHT distributed key
value store. Paging expera.
Adam Curry: Locks, paging, Spurlock new services needed.
While five cleaned up.
Dave Jones: It'll be done by Fridays, but
Adam Curry: How about how about this? I do I do. I do. How about
this? Can we back it into? Can we Okay, so we have lookup
service. There's a couple we have lookup services that we're
talking about. Good lookups services. Category lookup
services is called a hashtag. Activity pub actually does this.
Yeah, if I go and look for a hashtag, I do hashtag let me see
Thrash. So I'm doing thrash for thrash metal, and it's giving me
some crappy options. But if I hit thrash is going to show me,
thrash, thrash, metal thrash or thrash Thursday, should we not
Fetta fie this first and back it into the index or, or make that
a later part of the feticide index. And I'm saying it's like
if, if this this is I'm seeing it here. It's on activity pub.
Right now. I just I did thrash and it shows me thrash metal
Thrasher thrash Thursday. These are categories that I can use, I
can use them bait and has little graph tells me how many people
use it in the last graph tells me how many people use it in the
last two days. I mean, this is exciting. So is this something
that we can then reverse into the index?
Dave Jones: Do you know I mean, possibly, yeah, yeah, no, I
don't know where you're going. So now we're
Adam Curry: going now we're going to directions, we want to
take the index and put it into activity pub. And we want to
take the activity pub existing categories, ie hashtags, we just
call it what they are. And we can reverse engineer those back
in. Or, in fact, if someone tags, their song podcasts, or
audio book, whatever it is, with a certain type of hashtag, that
now fortifies into the fediverse through the bridge, take it to
the bridge
Dave Jones: is we're getting to spread out here. This this is a
Fanta like the problem that we're running into now is we're
we're thinking about way too many things at once. But it's
all the same thing. It is all the same thing, but they all
have different credit different implementations, you know, so,
but you like a person a person, a person identity is one thing.
A channel identity is another thing a freeform category data
list is another thing. They they all have functionally different
intents for us given the distribution mechanisms. So as
Think? I think we're right. And I think what we're doing right
now is defining the problem as defining the domain space, if
you want to call it that, where we say, okay, these types of
categories are going to need lookups. Yeah, that's an
important conclusion to come to.
Adam Curry: Right. And we just, we just discussed the person
good being a web finger lookup, that's, that's activity plug in
that what we did,
Dave Jones: yeah, but I'm just, it's like, I'm just a teenager
at web finger.
Adam Curry: Believe me, when I had to go to Reebok and say,
Hey, you can finger my account to see what, what my profile is.
They were like, what? From my dot plan from my dot plan file?
Oh, I remember all this. I'm old. But But what, here's what
overall, here's what I find exciting. So while we're talking
about fortifying the index, there's all this stuff that
Yeah, we could create an API endpoint and do all this stuff
and create good lookups and create good person looks up and
create category lookups. Meanwhile, it's all here. And
you've created that you've created a rudimentary bridge,
it's more like a rope bridge, that you know that one person at
a time over the bridge. But this connection, I think, is really
critical. So activity POV has critical mass. It just does. It
does. It has a critical mass is beautiful, it works. It's almost
a problem looking for us. In fact, it's almost like this,
like noster in a way only is much further down the road. The
the the solution has created a social network. But really the
problem is this. We have all these problems that we need them
for edifying, this, this centralized service. And all
these beautiful things have been created here, which is
outstanding for what we're looking to solve. Does that make
sense?
Dave Jones: Yes. So yes, go ahead. Yeah. Well, go the nasty,
nasty Eurasia video of Alex Gleason's talk. Now he's, he's
the guy that created so box activity pub server client. He,
he gave a talk in Australia, because he's now funded by some
Noster, you know, thing, whatever. And so he's all on
that bandwagon. But he does a good talk to listen to, because
he talks about, about a lot of these interrupts. And he, he
shows a graph on there. And it's like, you know, the number of
people that are on these different services. Twitter is
like, you know, a bazillion people. Activity pub, you know,
is is a million, BM millions of people. And then noster is like,
one, you know, a couple of dudes.
Adam Curry: A couple of dudes in a Bitcoin. Yeah.
Dave Jones: And so, like, the graph that he showed really made
it clear that you're you're right, the critical mass of
activity activity Pub is you can't overlook that.
Adam Curry: No, so easily the ROI. I mean, for five bucks a
month, you deploy your own Mastodon instance, which, by
definition is an activity pub node.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and that, like, let's jump back to this to
the AP dot podcast index.org. That, you know, that is going to
be an open source thing that anybody can run once. And so
then we can have lots of people running nodes in front of
running a P nodes in front of in front of the index. until such a
time when the index itself can be distributed. Then those nodes
become district they become more like IPFS gateways, right. It's
so that that is the ultimate goal. I mean, that's like, you
know, we started off talking that at the beginning of the
show, talking about how long this was going to take years.
It'll
Adam Curry: take a while. Yeah, I'll take a while. Yeah, that's
okay. Because yours because we got music to go with our work.
It's no problem. I just have Benny over here, play the piano
and we'll work on that feta phi and Vidya 20. Slit Benny 20 will
give you some weed bag. Me done back Benny. Taco Well, this is
good. So I'm excited by this because this is it's like we
naturally bumping up against this problem. You know, Because
the last thing we want, I know, I know you, you know me, we've
been friends for forces now. 13 years for 10. Yeah. Like we
don't want to, we don't want to actually do work. We're not
We're not interested in running a company or anything like that
this is all bad. We don't want that. We just want to make
things better for the world than for ourselves, quite honestly.
And so this is a natural thing that we're that we're that
we're, that we're hitting here. And it's a confluence of
streams, it really is. The whole activity pub, which has been in
our life for a long time is, is naturally flowing into all of
these problems, which means podcasting. 2.0 is also
maturing, these are very mature problems to have, we're talking
about recording fingerprints, and we're talking about licenses
and an identification of ownership. These are really
great things to have as problems, and to be able, and at
the same time to want to move that out to something that is
more distributed than it then podcasting already is, man,
that's exciting to me this like, Yeah, I'm good for another five
years, whatever it takes this this is great.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we found out this week that we had to file
some sort of tax thing and what the hell we were. You were like,
Please tell me your brother in law could do this. We don't want
to do like, begging my brother in law to do that. Like, this is
business crap.
Adam Curry: I love that he built us right away for 200 bucks. I'm
like, Thanks, Greg. I'm good, man. Thank you. You should have
built 300. Egypt yourself, man. We were so happy.
Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Yeah.
Adam Curry: What is this? This tax you talk of this?
Dave Jones: Like this? Yeah. Anything to avoid real you know,
real business. He crap is good in my bag.
Adam Curry: I mean, you know, cotton gin, we don't have
payroll, there's no payroll. There was, what's it called?
Like, operating? What is it called? What is that particular
tax called? It's like a franchise to franchise tax. We
don't owe anything. We still have to file you don't have to
file.
Dave Jones: Yeah, there's no, there's no payroll. Nobody gets
paid. No. You
Adam Curry: don't need franchise tax. And this is a million bucks
a year or something like okay, well, we still got a file. You
Dave Jones: say you to file and say, Hey, we don't have any
notes. We get a pain. You got to pay an accountant $200 To file
something that says you don't owe anything is the most
American thing.
Adam Curry: America. That's right, baby America taxes.
Dave Jones: In Alabama, they call it the business privilege
tax. It's got the same thing. The privilege of doing business
in
Adam Curry: Alabama. Exactly. Exactly. Well, we're happy to be
doing business in Texas. Yes. But yeah, that's exactly. Right.
It's so right. Amen. We
Dave Jones: will solve these problems. But I liked the way
it's
Adam Curry: going. I like this bridge. The bridge is an
important piece. It feels good. It really does. It feels like
Ah, okay, so now we can we reverse engineer these tags?
backwards, you know, or is when we just think about it for a
second. So in essence, you want to if you're if you're building
your RSS feed, so it's going to be a weird crossover to how this
works. But if you have your categories, your lookup should
almost should be your your most it should be your local activity
pub. You know, so Ivan so I think so, for instance,
sovereign feeds, which I which I use, I will be logged in. And
maybe instead of a my lb login, which I think it is now I'm
logged in through my activity pub, and I know it's not but
anyway, I'm logged in through my activity pub. And that
identifies me, that automatically goes into my feed
and then when I'm doing tags for my podcast, it's doing activity
pub lookups on those on those hashtags. And that's what goes
into the feed my source of truth. Am I saying that right?
Yeah,
Dave Jones: can see. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cuz cuz you, you just need
a list somewhere and like that. The list can come. They'll see
the list has to live somewhere. But it already lives can
originate somewhere as well. That's
Adam Curry: my point. It lives though. It lives so hashtag
right. See if I do bull crap. Is that a hashtag? Let me say there
is. No one's used it in the past few days where it's a hashtag.
Dave Jones: As your graph down you gotta Yeah, hockey stick
negative hockey stick.
Adam Curry: Well, bull bull bullshit bullet bullet with an
ITT I mean, see all I mean, there's a huge list. This lookup
is instant.
Dave Jones: All right, here we go. So In the activity pub
bridge, the podcast and index activity pub bridge can take on
the elite, here's the circle of life here so you you go on your
your post about post an episode, we can aggregate the hashtags
that are being used to then push a list did provide a list you
pick one then it goes into your episode as the genre or whatever
we're gonna say this category whatever category whatever then
it gets posted as a as an episode. The index picks it up
and posts it right back to activity pub posted right back
to activity pub now it's feeding back to the system and now it
goes back into the list and then becomes re yes, you're one more
your view of
Adam Curry: the graph is up the graph is up and to the right
yes, thrash metal Yes, exactly. Exactly. So the bridge feeds
back into the system. This is cool.
Dave Jones: And wouldn't that be the same with activity with
actor as identifiers
Adam Curry: do exactly same thing look it up right there.
Dave Jones: It feeds it feeds back into the system and then
and then we Trent we can translate to the bridge we can
translate the activity the actor URL as the identifier back into
the back into the the actor ID with the with the episode. Yes,
yes. So now it's attributed to this person and
Adam Curry: hit the pod ping how do we how do we respond to this?
Come on. Come on. Come on. It's gotta be in there. I don't know
brain brain. I'm excited by this. This. I think this is a
really I hope Alex gates likes it. Is he is he does he like
activity pub. Oh, yeah. Sure.
Dave Jones: He runs his own server that little. That's,
that's I've been testing against his activity pub. So bucks
instance, per week does validate because I wanted to validate
against something that was not Mastodon so that I can make sure
that we're trying to speak as generic activitypub as possible.
Yes. And so I was I was vowed I was building it to work on
against his instance. Nice. Is it then I'm like, then I'll
bring it over to Mastodon and see if it works there.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I think there's this there's something
here, Dave, this is this is I think this is a breakthrough.
I'm not quite sure why I feel that way. But there's a
breakthrough going on here. It
Dave Jones: it just feels important. For some reason. I
think it's because you like you said I think activity Pub has
critical mass, you know who spotted this? Very early on? Was
this sort of like this idea of integrating podcasting in with
activity? pub was Benjamin Bellamy. Yes, because yeah, I
suppose does that Right? Exactly.
Adam Curry: You're so right. He's probably jumped out and
sees probably jumping up and down going. I told you this was
riots. You stupid Americans. I knew it already. Socialism.
Dave Jones: Yes. This is this is. This is a he spotted it. And
I didn't see it at the time. And, and I think I think he's, I
think you have the right idea. Absolutely. Because activity
activity, pub and RSS are sort of like, you know, two
Adam Curry: sides of the same coin. Yeah, they're like, Dan
says 40 posts. Wow. So dynamite.
Dave Jones: But I do have a do still have a couple of you have
a couple of issues. In that we need to figure out that okay.
Adam Curry: Clearly something.
Dave Jones: How to handle the key pairs. So activitypub needs
assigning keys. And typically they are per user. So you know,
you you have a private public private key pair. Now what
Adam Curry: do you need these? What do you need these for? My
help me out? What do you need? Why do we need keys?
Dave Jones: So that each each user account has a public
private key pair that they use to sign the requests to other
activity pub servers when doing transactions. So if I if I go
and subscribe, excuse me, follow you on your server, I have to
sign it with my key pair to prove that is me actually doing
it. Right. And so there has there has to be a signing thing.
You know, I don't know how to handle these keys necessarily.
Should there just be one key for the whole server that everybody
uses? When I say everybody I mean every podcast asked, since
it's really since they're really all essentially bought accounts
anyway. Or should it be that each one, as soon as it's the
first time it's searched for a public key pair is created,
that's creating a key pair is a is a mathematically is
mathematically hard. So it's a little bit of a delay when that
happens, so I don't know I need advice on that, too. Can
Adam Curry: you run that by me one more time? The key the key
generation key pair was just run it by me one more time. Let me
see if I can grok this. Oh, I said
Dave Jones: it. Oh, can you give me the so the key pair, it's
pretty much just like PGP. You know, you have a public key and
a private key. The private key, you're gonna sign your message
to other when you send. So club brand, you're in the future,
you'll be you know, you subscribe a club random Yeah.
Then, when the club random gets a new episode, the AP dot
podcast index.org is going to send an event to your inbox. Or
it really to the shared inbox on your server, right saying,
saying, Here's a new post, right? That that message to your
shared inbox is going to have to be signed by his by, by his
accounts public, excuse me, private key, so that you can
then validate it using the public key that is present, is
what
Adam Curry: you're saying? Actor proof. So you're saying, Do we
have the index just has one, one key that signs everything? Now,
you can't do that? Has to be individual keys, doesn't it? You
Dave Jones: could there's no rule that says you can't. And
that's what I'm wondering is this, if there should just be
one public private key pair? On the index that signs everything
for every one of these podcast accounts? Does that? Or if they
should all be separate?
Adam Curry: Doesn't that come into the follow? Bit? Isn't that
unique to the follow? Me I don't know. I'm just guessing.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't know. I am open to advice from the
activity.
Adam Curry: I mean, quite honestly, it Is it crazy for me
to think that in the future podcast apps when you follow
slash subscribe to a podcast, that that would actually be an
activity pub event.
Dave Jones: Are you talking about when you actually
subscribe to the feed? Yes.
Adam Curry: Well, no one where it says very few podcast apps
when you subscribe to the feed. Haha, man, I'm my brain is
hurting right now. Yeah, okay. So if you take activity pub as
the subscribe pubs Pub Sub mechanism, does that not solve a
lot of back end stuff that individual apps are doing with
their own database as their own user database? Who's following
what et cetera, et cetera? Right? Does that not replace
that in a way? Um, so that in future actually, you'll
subscribe to a podcast you will subscribe to your follow up lets
us follow. You will follow a podcast be in your app or on the
mastodon server or wherever you get your mastodons and, and you
literally you could sign into every single podcast app with
your Mastodon slash activity pub. Key credentials. Bright.
Wow, think about how Trent that that just obliterated OPML Yeah,
Dave Jones: pretty much yeah. Because yeah, because you've
there's all your stuff right there will
Adam Curry: be serious. Whoa. That
Dave Jones: will conjunct said all your shows would sink to
Yeah, you
Adam Curry: could take your followers with you, man. It
brings in cross app comments.
Dave Jones: Well see that's very interesting. Obviously cross out
comments is is is baked
Adam Curry: in Yeah. Because
Dave Jones: that's being you know, as like I said when you
when you have a list of posts, the outbox is the list of posts
list of episodes and the each episode is just is also has the
the social interact tag data in it. Okay, devil's advocate comes
along with it devil's advocate, the devil's advocate. Yeah.
Adam Curry: What reasons would podcast apps have to not want to
do this?
Dave Jones: You do the double negative. I'm confused.
Adam Curry: Okay, so we so we basically are coming up with a
system here. Oh, man, you could almost publish from your podcast
app. Oh, my brain hurts to like
Dave Jones: 930.
Adam Curry: Maybe we're going too far. Maybe we're going to,
Dave Jones: we need a better way to back it up. I see where
you're going, though, and I like it. It's it's very far down the
road, though, as I say, but I see where you're going. Yeah, I
still don't know why follow the Follow button doesn't do
anything on Mastodon with trend, why was it not sending me?
Adam Curry: Well, that's just some kind of handshake that's
not completing that we'll figure that out.
Dave Jones: I'm not seeing a hit. Not seeing the hit on the
on the on on the AP server. But and then and then status IDs. So
the unit statuses like episode statuses are episodes.
Adam Curry: Yeah, this is Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but
Well, it's it shows up as a post but an activity problem. Sure.
It's called status. Yeah,
Dave Jones: it's called a post. It's called us. Yes. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Just to make it simple.
Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Let's go stat, the insert these every
one of these things has an ID. And I'm not sure where you would
think that the Episode Episode ID within podcast index would
make a perfect status, because it's just a big lump on number.
But then again, it's tying it to that to that to the index, which
doesn't seem right, it seems like it should be tied to like
the GU ID,
Adam Curry: maybe maybe if we just we stick to the publishing
side first, just to make it simple. To the publishing side
is where the biggest problems are right now. So the publishing
side, we have what is a GUID? How do we look up goods? And
that's it as its publishing. It's also of course, it's also
the receive side, but how do we look up goods? Okay, activity
Pub has a has a way to do that, as a way to register goods as a
way to authenticate goods, which can be people can be all kinds
of things. How do we do categories? We have a lookup
service built right into it, which requires apps, I think, on
the back end. So perhaps it's that the apps would have to have
a way to talk to their own activity pub. This is that what
we're down to now. hosting companies creation tools, will
need access to an activity problem now,
Dave Jones: not initially. I mean, initially, we we can just
Britt, you know, we can be the bridge. Okay. It, I think what's
going to happen is this, this code, once we get it to a work
working state where it's doing a lot of the things that we want
it to, and it's reliable, then it's open. And I think at that
point, there will it'll be easy for people to look at it, see
what it's doing. And because one of the goals that I have with
this code is in the next phase of this is add the database,
clean it up, make it open, hope I'm hoping by the end, but by
this, the end of this week, this coming week, the repo will be
open and everybody can just see it. At that point, I feel like
more eyeballs on it will be able to show we'll be able to sort of
flesh out some of these things. And say, here's what these days
should look like, here's what this should be, here's what this
should be. We can all just sort of like, collaborate on this.
But you know, and remember, ultimately, what's the goal
here, like we talked about a couple episodes ago is the
podcast. The bridge is going to make it where you could follow a
podcast on an activity pub timeline. And then when you see
when that post comes through, you get links to all the
different apps on it. So you have you and I have we have the
links, links to all the different podcasts. Right
Adam Curry: you just click on that link click boom, it opens
up the the appropriate app.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you're in pot. You're in pod. You're in your
Mastodon client. The post comes through, you just you know, you
say okay, I'm on pod verse or I'm on podcasts guru or pod fans
or whatever and you just tap it fountain and it kicks you over
to your to your app like it's not meant to be a destination is
meant to be a bridge,
Adam Curry: a bridge literally. Just to address Eric PPS COMM
And he says Who needs RSS at that point episodes are posted?
No, because we know that activity Pub is not not a great
system for high volume polling and high volume follows So you
want to just general want to just reiterate why that is?
Because of the subscription? overhead?
Dave Jones: Yes. The way that activity pub works, you know, is
it posts? It's a push, it's a push based system is relying on
on the server that creates the content to let you know that the
content is there. And that that's, that's okay. That's
actually that's efficient, in the sense that you don't have to
poll is inefficient. In that you can, the receiver can get
swamped. Yeah. Easily. And this this is what we see this all the
time with Mastodon servers where all of a sudden one famous
person joins and they have 10 million followers, and then
every now they're getting it in their server. Could you just
follow crawl? Yeah, yeah. So I think that that mean, this is
just this just bridges RSS bridges back to what RSS is
doing natively. We don't want to make the same mistake that Nasir
made. Yeah, we're exactly replace RSS, which is x DOM.
Yeah. So we're not we don't want to make that mistake. We're this
is basically a way to bridge RSS over into activity pub. In a way
that makes sense. But the source of truth is and always will
remain the RSS feed. Yes.
Adam Curry: I'm just looking at the podcast index dot social,
the sidekick Syo is killing it. Oh, man. If you see how many
failed there are over 2 million CI Oh, yeah, that's in one month
time and failed 2 million, 2 million fails.
Dave Jones: Sidekick for people that don't know is the task
server that runs on with Ruby on Rails that takes care of sending
all that into Mastodon in the mastodon world decide cake
process is sending all those outbox rules, excuse me sending
all those inbox pushes. Yeah, it's
Adam Curry: insane out everywhere. It's insane. It
really is.
Dave Jones: If it was more pool, if it was more pull. To me, it
would make it would be more like ours. So it would make a lot
more sense. Yeah.
Adam Curry: But it's not.
Dave Jones: Yeah, this could be NC we have the benefit of pod
thing.
Adam Curry: Yes, exactly.
Dave Jones: Everything is so much more efficient, because
we're not going to, we're not going to send out you know,
we're not going to be polling all over the place. If you get
if you subscribe to a podcast to the bridge, you know, you're out
you're gonna get you're gonna get one shared inbox paint hit.
That's it.
Adam Curry: I think this is this is a good this is I'm excited by
this. I mean, I know it's still kind of fluffy. But I can say
fluffy. It is fluffy. But I can see it. I can I can see how it's
how it's going to work. I can see that this is the it's just
sitting there activity Pub is it just sitting there ready to be
used for whatever abused, really abused by us for whatever we
need it for. And as its as such, it has such mass that it's I
think it's really good. Now of course,
Dave Jones: he's gonna talk about discovery to you. This
really helps discover Yes,
Adam Curry: of course his block lists, which will be
interesting, but that's a whole nother thing to deal with
eventually. It's
Dave Jones: surely we initially won't be on on any because this
is a new domain that won't. We won't have a prayer because
podcasts index dot social is on block list, but podcast
index.org is nice. So maybe we'll have a we're on block
lists. Social Yeah, we're on block lists. Why? Because it's
affiliated with you. Oh.
Adam Curry: Really? That guy? That guy? Really? I'm uh, we're
on BlockLess because of me. Oh, that's nice. Yeah,
Dave Jones: we talked about on the show of a long time ago. It
was like, all these stupid reasons. You know, the reasons
are hilarious that they give us all is like a you know, no
agenda social adjacent or something.
Adam Curry: Man. That's amazing. That's crazy. Shall we thank a
few people, man. We just we went through a buck 40 There. That's
pretty good. All right, let me see what we got coming in Dred
Scott. It's a lot less than normal, of course, because this
is the boardroom after dark. Dred Scott bread 23456 Missed
the Go Live as I've been canning pumpkin butter. Well, we all
have priorities. We all have priorities drag. Catch you on
the flip side when I'm working on chapters. Please be careful
where you put your web finger when dealing with Gui gewiss.
Sorry, could not resist he says yes, I got your brother. As
Great. Thank you. Chad f is this the booster Graham lounge
Karen's always talking about Yes. This is the one you got it.
We got 12345 from primitive one. Interesting. When you do in in
helipad 12345 is See No Evil Hear No Evil speak no evil
monkeys as is the emojis that pop up as usual happy to be part
of the revolution we got there is chyron mere mortals podcast
1111 I lied. I can actually join for a bit. I'm let your lead
we're all met. Yes we are. We are we are well, yeah. Well let
me see I just did a boosted ground ball this afternoon. So
there's a lot of stuff here is chyron pre boosting and
bemoaning fate the one time you guys change your schedule just
for me. Right? I have other obligations. Okay. So he was
able to listen to a little bit obviously, I guess he's, he's
just getting up. You must be morning there in Australia.
Think I can't remember. And those were our those were our
booths that came in during the live Dave, what do we have in on
the on the schedule from us since our last board meeting? We
Dave Jones: have we got we got one. Pay Pal for the week, we
get Oscar marry $200 from the founding guys, and that deserves
a
Adam Curry: stock call off what is blades? Only him? Paula,
thank you so much, Oscar Mary. That's very much appreciated.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And we'll I think we discussed his proposal
and we're well, towards the end of the month, we'll get back I
think we can hopefully if we can get we can get some consensus
and everything around that.
Adam Curry: Adding a new type to the the, the value block.
Dave Jones: Value recipient, recipient, yes. Okay. So that so
they can have Lightning Lightning addresses in the value
recipient deck? And I really don't, you know, so many people
are using Alby. Now, I don't think it's going to hurt
anything, because it's gonna it'll be the apps can just hand
that lightning address to Alby and let it resolve that itself,
Adam Curry: which works fine. I mean, sovereign feeds does that.
And so we don't have to resolve with that'll just be a wallet, a
wallet provider resolution? Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yes, right. Yeah, no, I don't think you'll have to
resolve all in app that. I don't think this is a scary change, I
think it's, I think it's going to be fine. It's going to make
it will make things easier for them. Because if they have to
change infrastructure, if they have to switch their nodes, lb
and fountain hosts so many nodes, is difficult for them to
track down all these podcasts that are still going to be using
the old pub key. So and it doesn't, it doesn't prohibit
anybody, you can use pub key. If you want, you can use lightning
address if you want. I think it's fine. So hopefully we'll
get that done by the end of the month so that they can we'll put
that in the spec so that they can move on. Okay. Thanks.
Thanks, Oscar. Appreciate that, that that support. Mike Dell, we
get the guest boost. Mike Dale 1701. He says now My name is on
it.
Adam Curry: He was I think it was boosting to be in the
chapters, which was by the way, oh, that's kind of nice. It
seems like everybody kind of resolved that. Seems like most
of the apps have gotten the TOC equals false working for them.
And I don't think I think it's the problems have kind of kind
of gone away. It's nice. I'd like that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I haven't seen any complaints about it lately.
Adam Curry: So I think podcasts the guru still needs to
implement a change maybe but I've only gotten one complaint.
So in the end that that guy was like, Okay, that's cool. You
said hey, the chapters are all messed up. No, it was it was it
was an app that we didn't even know about I caster has never
even heard. Yes. And I cast her apparently is doing chapters and
from what I understand the web version at least of Pocket Casts
also does cloud chapters now. Yes.
Dave Jones: Another another reason why it's It's okay. We
pause here for a little while with the namespace because three
years later answers is just coming on board.
Adam Curry: That's a big deal, man. That's a big deal. I think
that's phenomenal because booster grams we've been showing
up on Pocket Casts according to Dame Jennifer.
Dave Jones: I hope that pre stages some more some work on
the actual native apps. Yeah, wouldn't
Adam Curry: that be nice? Yeah,
Dave Jones: that'd be wonderful. Yeah. Every piece is podcast
indexed as social as 82 blocks and then a social has 920
Adam Curry: Yay. We're number one.
Dave Jones: All the blocks on the podcast index dot social,
just say Indian Santa Claus beside them.
Adam Curry: We just added 15 blocks to our to our Mastodon
Dave Jones: gene been 20 to 22 Row ducks to customers. A
cosmetic he says Bring on the ipv6.
Adam Curry: Isn't it amazing that the a cast was the CEO? I
was really baffled by this. It was pod news was reporting on it
that the CEO said, Well, you know, our list our downloads are
down. Because Apple changed the automatic downloads like what do
you just say the quiet part out loud dude. What did you just do?
Really? You didn't just say that. Did you? Yeah, that's even
funnier to hear James had no I can't be Apple yet. It'll be
Apple next month. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't just prove that is
kind of bogus. Am I Am I seeing that wrong?
Dave Jones: No, no, I think you're 100% Right. That's
Adam Curry: I thought that was funny.
Dave Jones: The other the other one I love this week with
everybody reporting their earnings. You know, is like we
were you know, they always report revenues up and it's
like, still not making a profit. most
Adam Curry: profitable. If we only fire five more people will
be profitable. Uh, come on, guys.
Dave Jones: pesky payroll. Chat F 10,000 SATs. Great episode
today. Thank you, Chad. Appreciate it. Thank you,
brother. See RP. 1984 4000 SATs through fountain he says
currently using fountain and even after digging through the
menu, I did not see how to bring up the artist info. Thanks for
the heads up, Adam. I'll dig in some more this weekend and find
that
Adam Curry: I think what he's talking about is when we have a
magic wallet switch, also known as value time split. And if
you're in Fountain you when you're listening to a podcast
that has in this case, as you're talking about music, you go to
the References tab on that episode and then the References
tab will show you all of the artists all the tracks that were
played in the song and on that podcast guru it's the V four v.
Logo works really well. It's very cool.
Dave Jones: Did you Did Mr. Graham ball live right?
Adam Curry: I did. I did like an hour and 20 minutes I couldn't
stop. Oh, wow. I love that. I
Dave Jones: love the image check the top. The top 1x x it
Adam Curry: was top 156 for me today. Oh top 159 Actually let
me see what is it right now? 167. Um, we got a lot of tops.
pirate radio number one. We got shrooms. By the way. I want to
say hi to Barry from pod home.fm Just a Dutch guy.
Dave Jones: Oh, yes. He and he
Adam Curry: was interviewed if you haven't listened to it yet
was interviewed on pod news weekly review. And he said
something to me in Dutch is he will do seller base it here.
Okay, so
Dave Jones: now now who's this is like an audio DM. That's
exactly what that was.
Adam Curry: He apparently has his service you. You just throw
your podcast in there. And it does everything and it comes
back after like a minute and says, Here's your transcripts.
Here's your title. Here's your here's your chapters. It doesn't
all in one go. Yeah. Oh, crap. He said I have no, he was a
great term. And I have no not code legacy. But oh, there's a
term for it that I really liked. Like, no, because when you have
when you have old code that you just have to deal with and you
can't implement and that there's nothing to say yes. Yeah, I have
no debt. I have no technology debt. It's exactly what you
said. It's like wow, that was very cool. These interesting guy
that's why I want to check it out what he's doing, because
seems like he kind of leapfrog with the AI stuff. Instead of
being a strap on. Add on. Sorry, an add on. My wife isn't home
okay. Dana, come back and come back like yeah, you just you
just upload it and it does all this stuff for you. I have to
check it off to see it, though. Nice. Sounds cool. Oh, sounds
cool.
Dave Jones: See, we get 31 night is a 319480. That's 319 48.
Israeli
Adam Curry: Israeli. Yes. Hey, how you doing brother?
Dave Jones: Cast? emetics is sorry for live boost apps. It's
been a little distracted here.
Adam Curry: Just a little distracted with it was a war.
You guys are next
Dave Jones: door. Yeah. I'm still around and pod ping is
still pinging? Yes.
Adam Curry: And is Broyles Okay, I see Roy's on the telegram so
he's still alive. Everyone's still good. Let's go our friends
are alive.
Dave Jones: Yes, some breeze is working on stuff. One of the vet
developers at breeze the enemy on podcast index dot social is
Adam Curry: working on VTS right now your time listen I think so
you and I saw that some of our devs are looking at the breeze
SDK.
Dave Jones: Yeah, Alex is he's he's been digging into it. Yeah.
Yeah. Cool for Greg Greenlight. Let's see. Where did I lost my
cursor? There it is. Circus media sent 167 of 3333 Oh, that
was a that was a VTS boost? says our mateys. I guess he's talking
about pirate
Adam Curry: pirate radio Sure.
Dave Jones: As a Karen mere mortals podcast 2222 Tiny Tim
you missed the perfect episode to play my ISO. I know a lot I
know I forgot it. Um, see the ISO there's an ISO ISO and I
forgot to get it out of my email. Oh, I'll get it for next
year. Jacobson is 2222 as of BTS boost he says excellent track.
Thank you, Jacob. Balderdash boys and 22 to 22 do Felton. He
says great episode in the last few months I switched to
blueberry because they seem to really want to embrace 2.0 And I
haven't been disappointed. Thanks for all that you guys are
doing to revolutionize podcasting. Go podcasting. Sir
Wes of beer bourbon and balderdash. Yeah.
Adam Curry: This guy's are pretty funny. Oh, yeah. Got a
lot going on. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Mitch, D as Mitch downing for your uninitiated.
10,000 SATs through pod versus new and pod verse turbo confetti
dopamine boost.
Adam Curry: I know what that means. I do I do. Because when
you use pod verse and you boost it because just whatever the
overhead is, whatever you know, you know because a lot of splits
it would do all the splits before pod verse would give you
some gratification and now it's just like here take this spurt
here's some confetti trust us the payment went we think check
later. I guess it's the way to go premature
Dave Jones: it's a premature confetti I guess. That's
Adam Curry: That's what pod verse does. You know, you hit
the pod verse was the whole screen shakes, lightning shows
up confetti goes and like check later to see if it went through.
You're good. You enjoy your listening experience. Trust me.
Which honestly, I think is the way to go.
Dave Jones: Thanks, Mitch. Appreciate it. Comic Strip
blogger. The delimiter the delimiter 30 915 C. Wait,
Adam Curry: do I 30 915 No,
Dave Jones: don't miss one. Oh, wait, wait. I'm 31 it threw me
It threw me off e podcast or sent 10,000 SATs. Thank you
through fountain 10,000 SATs because we are on day 10 of
national podcast post month aka net not pod Pomo oh yeah, this
Adam Curry: is I don't know what that thing is. No more podcast
post month. I have no idea who made this. Omo is someone's
making money off of that. No doubt. scam.
Dave Jones: I can tell. Thank you e podcaster. And now comic
strip blogger nearly 30,915. Yes. Yes. Through fountain.
Howdy, David. Adam. Check out unrelenting. The podcast where
Jean and Darrin make sense. And a few jokes about everything
from Tech Trends. Taylor Swift, how to get rich quick to
political twists, tune in laugh and maybe learn something at WWW
dot unrelenting dot show or live on no agenda stream one or two
hours before podcasting. 2.0 live stream yo CSB.
Adam Curry: That's right, they usually on right before us.
Dave Jones: Get some monthlies. Get Joseph maraca $5 Emilio can
Oh Molina $4 you by the way I think Emilio is a Mexican
podcaster or Podcast Producer I'm not sure. But did you see it
on live stream I
Adam Curry: podcast is pod con.mx Live It was very good.
Now. What was weird is the balance was a little bit off for
me. So I wish I could have balanced between hearing James
talk and and the Mexican Spanish translation. Okay, so that got a
little you know, I was like I got a little nutty. But that's
the whole thing. The fact that it worked. The fact that you
could boost I watched it pod verse on the web. Did you watch
it in an app?
Dave Jones: Not just about it was during work hours. So I was
I was checking the curio I looked at it and it was a curio
caster. Yeah. Okay. We're in we're Murphy. I'm sorry. I'm
sorry. Pod verse.
Adam Curry: Yeah, the pod verse on the web version one. It's
great.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it was it was perfect. Like God bless you.
Roberto and Ben for like doing some sort eating your own dog
Adam Curry: food. Yes, yes, exactly.
Dave Jones: That is we need more of that people in people in
podcasting, using podcast apps to do the stuff. Don't you know,
instead of jumping over to, to YouTube or something else, yes,
use the apps use the apps in your own ecosystem. I
Adam Curry: thought it was. It was really cool. I love that
because it's one of those things. Now, did they organize
this podcast? That was RSS as deal? That was their own? I
think?
Dave Jones: I think so. Yeah, they have a big presence in
Mexico. They're real big push down there. You
Adam Curry: know, those kinds of things. It's like risky, and it
could be you could wind up looking like an idiot. So I for
the same reasons, Dave, I appreciate him like, Oh, that's
so cool that you guys did that. And yeah, you know, and there's
this there's this. I know that Alberto is going to write it up
because there's a there's a live show that's going to be taking
place I think in December or January in Avenue one I think it
is it's in Minneapolis be like Prince's old club or something.
And just loud and Ainsley Costello will be performing
live. And, and the guy who owns the club, I think of the venue.
You know, he's been like, yeah, I wanted I want to do value for
value. And I know he's talked to Alex and I know but I've talked
to him. I don't know why. They haven't even mentioned noster
Asia. Yeah, I don't work with Adam curry. Okay. You know, it's
just to do this thing live. But I think for some it feels to me
like, like, they don't want to do it or it's not nostre are
something which is just whatever it is, you're making a mistake.
This is the way to go. This is the way to go. But it works
people can can connect their wallets, they can they can they
can booths, they can stream it works. Bitcoin, Amsterdam. You
guys are losers, you should have been doing this. We told you
we'd help you you didn't get back to us. And here's rss.com
Just doing and you know what, I'm going to tell you what's
gonna happen. They're gonna do this with Crowder, louder with
Crowder like him or not doesn't matter piece on rss.com You
know, after he left, whatever the left YouTube and all these
guys whatever. And I said you should go with the with one of
our guys. So they went with rss.com. You watch they're going
to be streaming live with this live stuff and they're going to
be getting boosted grams. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm not
a wall. I
Dave Jones: don't listen. I've never listened to his shows. He
does a live show.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I think he does alive. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I think the crew Crowder, go, yeah, that that
that would be killer, that we just need more. More than just
need more of this. We need more of people in the podcast world
using podcast apps to do their stuff. Because I mean, if you
say your pot, if you say if you talk up if you say podcasting is
where it's at. Prove it.
Adam Curry: Yeah, Todd. Todd. Whoa. Well, come on. They they
do it live doing it. He's
Dave Jones: doing it live.
Adam Curry: He's doing the audio. He's doing the audio, but
I don't think he does the video. I don't think he does video that
that's on. I believe they do that on YouTube. I
Dave Jones: want to see the podcast. What are the words that
he does? Well,
Adam Curry: that Well, I don't want to wait another year for
the next new media show.
Dave Jones: But these conference type things where do you do you
know, like these events? Yeah.
Adam Curry: You know, maybe, maybe, you know, I'm gonna get
mad one of these days and I'm just gonna do a conference. No,
Dave Jones: you're not no. Yeah, that's all Yes. Okay. All right.
Tina, come back. This is how
Adam Curry: we keep each other and you
Dave Jones: just raised this Absolutely. You're losing it.
Adam Curry: Come home quick. a month. Rest
Dave Jones: of the Muslims got basil. Philip $25 Thank you,
basil. We appreciate that very much pod verse. Mentioned the
boys $50
Adam Curry: Thank you Lauren ball. $24.20
Dave Jones: Thank you, Lauren. Christopher horrible. Eric $10
and Mitch Mitchell Downey again $10. Yes.
Adam Curry: Thank you all so much. We appreciate the support.
You're supporting our our Obliteration and we really
appreciate that our mission is to you support us until we don't
need support anymore. And then we just gone and then everything
works. It will be verified and then Adam and Dave just we just
peace out. We just sail off we just go into the sunset, like to
cowboy hat. Christopher Christopher cross, say Lin, take
me away too. Where the latency doesn't work with our harmonies?
Yes, Chris, criss cross as we say, Yes, criss cross,
Dave Jones: this criss
Adam Curry: cross. Let me see if I have anything else on my list.
Pom Pom Lucy. Well, just even though we passed the topics
Mozilla is working on fare defying in the browser, I guess
was that the article we have in the browser here activity pub in
the browser? Curl now does IPFS
Dave Jones: yep, that's the deal. But
Adam Curry: they use a gateway, right? It's not really an IP, it
is not doesn't have an IP Fs client. And it magically you can
just define a gateway.
Dave Jones: You can you define a thought you define the Default
Node.
Adam Curry: Okay, so it doesn't include a node you can you can
define a node on your own machine. I
Dave Jones: think that's right. I did. I don't think it's using
a gateway I think is native. Because it's talking about I
mean, I think it's native. I'll have to reread it but I thought
it was native.
Adam Curry: Well, I thought I thought it could breed the
native IPFS and then it would retrieve it from the gateway you
define. Maybe Maybe I saw that wrong. Maybe I saw that as
Dave Jones: a basis for get merged into curl. I love curl
with you. I'm a curl guy over wi yet it's got way more way more
capable. At the first input there are various ways to access
data one such ways to conserve gateway. Or Lani, Evie, there's
integration curl hides this gateway logic for you. So
instead of providing a full URL to a file on an IP Fs like this
you can provide it with the FAA as a protocol Yes, you're right
you're
Adam Curry: my SIR wins again. Yeah, yes, yes. Anything I'm
good at it's man. Man Man curl. And thank you very much Spotify
for pushing more people towards value for value music pushing us
toward the value verse. New term New term I came up with today.
The value verse Yes. By no longer paying people any money
great. We're so appreciative. Like, you have to be played at
least 1000 times a month before you get any money and the money
if so if you have 999 streams, they give it to Taylor Swift.
I'm telling you these guys these guys got great marketing come to
us we'll rip you off.
Dave Jones: It's hilarious that it was it was Twitter or
something? Where did I see that check of somebody who had like a
whole ton of streams and it was like 1000s and 1000s 40 bucks.
Adam Curry: I think that was I think it was on I might have
been on the mastodon I saw it and then I love and Sam Seth he
was doing some great math I love that. He's like you know for all
that you know if you'd done it by this and divided by 15 Square
root you make more on value for value. That's right. always
true. It's always true. All right, brother thanks for giving
up your Friday night this was well worth it. I love being in
the in the boardroom after dark with you
Dave Jones: yeah that's that's yep conflict today day jobs
happen so now's this was good.
Adam Curry: We should just plan this in from time to time just
do I love I love doing a podcast at night. Nice and dark and get
everything off. I got the green visor on.
Dave Jones: gamma gamma lamp on the road casters. I'll pretty
well,
Adam Curry: you could see that. You could see the lights. Yeah,
yeah,
Dave Jones: we need to yeah, we'll do we'll do a brad every
now and then once in a while. That
Adam Curry: board room after dark everybody. All right. Thank
you very much. Chat Room for being with us. And thank you for
attending the board meeting. We'll be back next week with the
board meeting of podcasting 2.0.
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Adam Curry: Go podcast. Clearly something sexy is happening
here.