1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,350 Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0 for November 10 2023, Episode 2 00:00:04,350 --> 00:00:12,120 154, feta find blob Oh, hello, everybody, it's time once again, 3 00:00:12,540 --> 00:00:17,190 for podcasting 2.0 only born from the hazards champagne room. 4 00:00:18,870 --> 00:00:21,600 Here's where we discuss the current state of the art in 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,420 podcasting. What's coming in the future what is happening right 6 00:00:24,420 --> 00:00:28,260 now everything going on at podcast index.org The namespace 7 00:00:28,260 --> 00:00:31,320 podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,800 the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. That's not dirt on his 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,010 hands. It's just a little bit of rust. Say hello to my friend on 10 00:00:38,010 --> 00:00:42,000 the other end ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Jones. 11 00:00:44,460 --> 00:00:49,170 Dave Jones: So, yes, a young discovered tonight at dinner 12 00:00:49,170 --> 00:00:54,690 young people have they don't understand humor? They're afraid 13 00:00:54,690 --> 00:00:55,050 of it. 14 00:00:55,710 --> 00:00:57,360 Adam Curry: They're afraid of it. Yes. I believe they're 15 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,700 afraid of you. They're terrified 16 00:00:59,970 --> 00:01:02,310 Dave Jones: to laugh at things in front of other people. 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,820 Adam Curry: Oh, that's horrible. Yes. You can't do that. Like 18 00:01:05,850 --> 00:01:07,020 they don't understand 19 00:01:07,020 --> 00:01:11,250 Dave Jones: that. Like, jokes about culture. cultural things 20 00:01:11,310 --> 00:01:16,740 are not the same thing as being mean. No, like, no. So we go to 21 00:01:16,740 --> 00:01:19,320 India, we go to the Indian restaurant. Oh, 22 00:01:19,350 --> 00:01:21,510 Adam Curry: and did you go a nice data your head how you 23 00:01:21,510 --> 00:01:24,780 doing? No, I did not say that. Okay, that was that will be me. 24 00:01:25,410 --> 00:01:29,220 Dave Jones: There was a picture. Let me see. Let me send you this 25 00:01:29,220 --> 00:01:33,930 picture. So when we get home, okay. Picture out. There's a 26 00:01:33,930 --> 00:01:35,430 picture on the wall. Yes. 27 00:01:36,270 --> 00:01:38,370 Adam Curry: You took a picture of the picture on the wall. You 28 00:01:38,370 --> 00:01:39,690 did know I found 29 00:01:39,690 --> 00:01:41,250 Dave Jones: it on the internet when I got home because I didn't 30 00:01:41,250 --> 00:01:43,980 know that this was okay. Let me see. Okay, so here's this. 31 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:44,880 Here's this link. 32 00:01:45,030 --> 00:01:47,790 Adam Curry: Something. Okay. Yeah, this looks like some 33 00:01:47,790 --> 00:01:50,970 important dude. It does. Yeah, it looks like looks like Indian 34 00:01:50,970 --> 00:01:52,470 Santa Claus. Is that 35 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:07,560 because we are the same Dave Jones. I'm certainly. So putting 36 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:08,550 this in the show notes. 37 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,140 Dave Jones: At the Indian restaurant in the first thing I 38 00:02:13,140 --> 00:02:15,900 said, I was like, Who is that? Is that Indian Santa Claus. 39 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,830 Adam Curry: Your kids were mortified. My daughter 40 00:02:19,830 --> 00:02:23,940 Dave Jones: was like, Dad, she's looking around like she just 41 00:02:24,090 --> 00:02:29,490 bought drugs. And I was like, awesome. Like, I'm like, it's 42 00:02:29,490 --> 00:02:37,470 funny. Like, I'm like, okay, that's not disrespectful. 43 00:02:37,650 --> 00:02:39,390 Adam Curry: it to make it make 44 00:02:41,430 --> 00:02:44,400 Dave Jones: people laugh at American stuff all the time. You 45 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:45,630 know why? Because? 46 00:02:47,130 --> 00:02:51,270 Adam Curry: Exactly. We're ridiculous. Oh, man, that is so 47 00:02:51,270 --> 00:02:54,750 that's too much. Yes. I totally get that. I see it right away. 48 00:02:55,260 --> 00:02:57,840 Yes. Indian Santa Claus. Yeah. 49 00:02:58,710 --> 00:03:00,900 Dave Jones: This is a very important guy. Oh, yeah. No 50 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:03,870 Adam Curry: doubt. Well, that's as Sam said that he can. He can 51 00:03:03,870 --> 00:03:06,660 tell us we'll put it in the show notes. Ladies and gentlemen. 52 00:03:06,660 --> 00:03:13,380 This is your podcasting. 2.0 board meeting after dark. That's 53 00:03:13,380 --> 00:03:18,930 right. Welcome to the to the lounge where we discuss 54 00:03:18,930 --> 00:03:22,710 everything going on with podcasting. How're you doing? 55 00:03:22,710 --> 00:03:25,530 Mr. Jones? Can I pour you a martini? 56 00:03:26,250 --> 00:03:29,730 Dave Jones: Yes. Better. You have a cigar. You 57 00:03:29,730 --> 00:03:33,180 Adam Curry: know, I gave up the smoking. Right? Yeah, you 58 00:03:33,180 --> 00:03:35,640 Dave Jones: get a new grill. You don't want to tarnish it? 59 00:03:35,790 --> 00:03:39,480 Adam Curry: Do not not and you know what? I am good with my 60 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:46,290 lungs. I think I polluted them for about 45 of the 59 years 61 00:03:46,290 --> 00:03:48,720 that I've been on this earth. I'm pretty good. Now I'm just 62 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,250 going for the liver. I'm going to 63 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,810 Dave Jones: see we can damage the moving target. You've moved 64 00:03:54,810 --> 00:03:56,580 targets down to the liver. Yes. 65 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,840 Adam Curry: But I can understand that. You know, if if you and I 66 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,380 were truly in this in this lounge, and you know, I think 67 00:04:04,380 --> 00:04:07,680 I'd probably want a martini and I think I just might even just 68 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,900 to hold it. I might want a cigarette you know, just like 69 00:04:09,900 --> 00:04:14,250 they just hold it. There's this great documentary about Frank 70 00:04:14,250 --> 00:04:18,390 Sinatra on Netflix. What's it called? Give it to Sinatra? 71 00:04:19,470 --> 00:04:20,760 Dave Jones: It's no creative name. 72 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:25,440 Adam Curry: It's it's mainly about his life in Palm Springs. 73 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:31,290 And, and what I mean for the time, right, it's no longer that 74 00:04:31,290 --> 00:04:34,830 time. But one of the awesome kind of life that must have been 75 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,190 hanging out with his boys, you know, going out every night to a 76 00:04:38,190 --> 00:04:39,210 different restaurant. 77 00:04:39,870 --> 00:04:41,400 Dave Jones: Yeah, the Rat 78 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,890 Adam Curry: Pack the well no, no, he Well, The Rat Pack was 79 00:04:43,890 --> 00:04:46,860 the Vegas thing but this was just his guys okay. And he would 80 00:04:46,860 --> 00:04:50,940 read the Palm Springs newspaper every morning and anyone who 81 00:04:50,940 --> 00:04:53,640 seemed in trouble you call up his lawyers had send them money. 82 00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:57,720 Dave Jones: Well, I just love to be that guy. Oh, yeah. What a 83 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:58,770 stood. Yeah, 84 00:04:58,830 --> 00:05:00,570 Adam Curry: yeah, but you wouldn't tell anybody It only 85 00:05:00,570 --> 00:05:03,060 found out about this way after his death. 86 00:05:03,540 --> 00:05:05,910 Dave Jones: Oh, so he's the Walmart. He's the Walmart is 87 00:05:05,910 --> 00:05:07,230 yes. Secret Secret Santa? 88 00:05:07,260 --> 00:05:13,560 Adam Curry: Yes. From India? Yes. And I want it since we're 89 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,830 here in the lounge. I just wanted to say Dave Jones. Thank 90 00:05:16,830 --> 00:05:20,460 you for all that you do with podcasting? 2.0 Thank you for 91 00:05:20,490 --> 00:05:24,660 all the things that you do. You are not praised enough. I would 92 00:05:24,660 --> 00:05:27,810 have to say your habit dancing girl. 93 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,460 Dave Jones: Thank you, Nan pray I'm praised. Plenty and too 94 00:05:32,460 --> 00:05:33,030 much. No, 95 00:05:33,030 --> 00:05:35,490 Adam Curry: not enough. No, I don't think so. I don't think I 96 00:05:35,490 --> 00:05:38,130 was walking with Phoebe and like, come on. We gotta get you 97 00:05:38,130 --> 00:05:42,630 gotta go. You gotta poop before the show. And you're thinking, 98 00:05:42,630 --> 00:05:46,200 you know? And I think maybe it's because you weren't feeling 99 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:47,700 well. How are you feeling now, by the way? 100 00:05:48,210 --> 00:05:49,620 Dave Jones: Oh, I'm great. I'm like, 101 00:05:49,770 --> 00:05:51,450 Adam Curry: You're not coughing. Okay. 102 00:05:52,140 --> 00:05:54,480 Dave Jones: This cough is this is one of those calls where it 103 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,530 calls for I can tell as it carves, like, that's a plural. 104 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,860 Whatever that is. Yes. That you can just tell it's going to be 105 00:06:04,860 --> 00:06:06,840 around for a month. Yeah, it's Oh, 106 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:08,490 Adam Curry: I hate those. Yeah, those suck 107 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,330 Dave Jones: it up, get rid of it's just like this just niggles 108 00:06:12,330 --> 00:06:13,650 at, you know, I 109 00:06:13,650 --> 00:06:17,310 Adam Curry: think it's the older I get, I just the more I look at 110 00:06:17,340 --> 00:06:21,270 fatality or mortality, I should say, I just look at it. And I 111 00:06:21,270 --> 00:06:25,830 think, dude, I want to be doing this for a long time with you. I 112 00:06:25,830 --> 00:06:29,130 really do. I wanted to have to do less responsibility, you 113 00:06:29,130 --> 00:06:33,780 know, the Fed defying the index is a great mission that we're 114 00:06:33,780 --> 00:06:35,460 on. Now, 115 00:06:35,490 --> 00:06:38,700 Dave Jones: which I have, which I have, I have things to reveal. 116 00:06:38,730 --> 00:06:40,230 Adam Curry: Let's Why don't we why don't we start with that? 117 00:06:40,230 --> 00:06:43,470 Because that's, so people have to understand, although we've 118 00:06:43,470 --> 00:06:47,130 never really discussed it, I think per se as a as a mission 119 00:06:47,130 --> 00:06:50,070 is become an an almost an unspoken mission that you and I 120 00:06:50,070 --> 00:06:59,040 agree on, just in our soul, is you know, we need to eliminate 121 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,630 ourselves. The index has to eventually be eliminated into 122 00:07:03,630 --> 00:07:07,170 something that makes this that everything just works without 123 00:07:07,170 --> 00:07:11,580 relying on us. And when I say us, I mean the index, because of 124 00:07:11,580 --> 00:07:18,720 course without us it all falls apart. But but the index so 125 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,160 yeah, so that's the term I'm using feta fie feta. fIying. The 126 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:23,760 index i 127 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:24,630 Dave Jones: like that term. Yeah, 128 00:07:24,630 --> 00:07:26,940 Adam Curry: that's a good term. Yeah, I wonder if it's is an 129 00:07:26,940 --> 00:07:27,690 actual verb. 130 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,860 Dave Jones: It is now that sounds as you can silicon 131 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,950 Silicon Valley can turn anything into it, but just take just take 132 00:07:34,950 --> 00:07:35,130 out 133 00:07:35,130 --> 00:07:37,710 Adam Curry: the edge take out the vowels. Yeah, for different 134 00:07:37,830 --> 00:07:42,690 for the finger. For the fingers finishing the 135 00:07:43,470 --> 00:07:49,770 Dave Jones: so the ES the eye. And also this is going to take 136 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:54,870 years. I mean, that's just it's clear that because it's so hard, 137 00:07:54,990 --> 00:07:55,530 you know, 138 00:07:55,710 --> 00:08:00,720 Adam Curry: no, that's not true. If you just use hive it'll be 139 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,340 working tomorrow you know that? 140 00:08:02,820 --> 00:08:06,240 Dave Jones: Yes, that's true. We haven't had our call with no 141 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,430 Adam Curry: we haven't we have we have to because he's gonna 142 00:08:08,430 --> 00:08:10,320 show us how to do it. Yeah, right. 143 00:08:11,550 --> 00:08:13,200 Dave Jones: Yeah, that's gonna it's gonna take a long time. So 144 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:18,750 this is like it's I've honestly see this project now as the as 145 00:08:18,750 --> 00:08:27,660 the life that this life mission to to fortify the the index so 146 00:08:27,660 --> 00:08:33,570 that so that podcasting and its data is just this big, amorphous 147 00:08:33,570 --> 00:08:38,370 decentralized fat a fat blob, feta FIDE blob. Nice, yes. 148 00:08:38,370 --> 00:08:39,360 Verified blog. 149 00:08:39,390 --> 00:08:41,010 Adam Curry: It's kind of something we some people want to 150 00:08:41,010 --> 00:08:44,220 be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. We want to feticide blob, 151 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:44,970 you 152 00:08:44,970 --> 00:08:47,370 Dave Jones: get no recognition for that. Like, that's not 153 00:08:47,370 --> 00:08:49,920 you're not in any Hall of Fame's for that. That's just the thing 154 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,000 you do and then you die. 155 00:08:51,030 --> 00:08:52,830 Adam Curry: Yeah, yes. Yeah, correct. You 156 00:08:52,830 --> 00:08:53,550 Dave Jones: have fun doing it? 157 00:08:53,550 --> 00:08:57,300 Adam Curry: Yeah. Oh, have lots of fun. That's the whole point. 158 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,090 Dave Jones: So what I've been what I've been working on this 159 00:09:00,090 --> 00:09:02,100 week. Do you want to see it? 160 00:09:02,820 --> 00:09:04,500 Adam Curry: Oh, you Oh, you wait me you have something you have 161 00:09:04,500 --> 00:09:07,740 show until you have your link. Do you have a PowerPoint for the 162 00:09:07,740 --> 00:09:13,830 boardroom? Widgets. Okay. Oh, all right. What are you gonna 163 00:09:13,830 --> 00:09:14,490 give me here? 164 00:09:14,790 --> 00:09:18,180 Dave Jones: Well, okay, like, let me let me find a podcast 165 00:09:18,180 --> 00:09:21,450 real quick. What? Let's see, what can we do podcasts? Let's 166 00:09:21,450 --> 00:09:25,260 do club random because we mentioned as Bill Maher's. Okay, 167 00:09:25,770 --> 00:09:29,430 podcast because I had been listening to that a lot as it 168 00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:29,880 gets you 169 00:09:31,350 --> 00:09:34,350 Adam Curry: a lot out of it. HBO show and I'll tell you that. 170 00:09:34,650 --> 00:09:36,720 Dave Jones: Yeah, his podcast is actually really good. 171 00:09:38,190 --> 00:09:40,350 Adam Curry: Because he has all kinds of cool people on from all 172 00:09:40,350 --> 00:09:41,340 across the spectrum. 173 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,450 Dave Jones: And he argued, he had Neil deGrasse Tyson. He just 174 00:09:45,450 --> 00:09:46,020 heard that. 175 00:09:47,790 --> 00:09:49,860 Adam Curry: And in that case, the video was kind of fun just 176 00:09:49,860 --> 00:09:53,160 to watch. Neil deGrasse Tyson get all uncomfortable. It's 177 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,300 pretty funny to watch that. 178 00:09:54,450 --> 00:09:57,120 Dave Jones: He was he was like, at one point he sold him he's 179 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:58,080 like You're ridiculous. 180 00:09:59,070 --> 00:09:59,730 Adam Curry: Pretty much 181 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:06,930 Dave Jones: yeah let's see okay so pick podcasting index slash 182 00:10:06,930 --> 00:10:11,430 social no agenda social any any Mastodon instance you have okay 183 00:10:11,460 --> 00:10:17,100 I have one podcast index dot social in the search like you're 184 00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:27,030 going to search for somebody to follow type in 5195196349634 185 00:10:27,030 --> 00:10:30,210 Adam Curry: That would be the podcast index ID for 186 00:10:30,210 --> 00:10:36,450 Dave Jones: club random with Bill Maher okay 99636340 At okay 187 00:10:36,510 --> 00:10:41,040 at AP AP dot podcast index.org 188 00:10:42,330 --> 00:10:44,250 Adam Curry: Wow this is sexy 189 00:10:45,150 --> 00:10:47,310 Dave Jones: AP obviously standing for activity book. 190 00:10:47,460 --> 00:10:48,300 Adam Curry: Whoa, 191 00:10:49,380 --> 00:10:52,770 Dave Jones: follow get home What 192 00:10:52,770 --> 00:10:56,670 Adam Curry: is this? What is this sexy stuff? All right 40 193 00:10:56,670 --> 00:10:57,480 posts 194 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,230 Dave Jones: but we got a lot to talk about here with this 195 00:11:01,260 --> 00:11:03,660 Adam Curry: I have to browse more on the original profile 196 00:11:03,660 --> 00:11:07,740 though. Yeah. Which takes me which takes me to the okay 197 00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:08,880 Dave Jones: a bunch of JSON yep 198 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,710 Adam Curry: I'm still I'm still amazed by what I just saw. So 199 00:11:13,710 --> 00:11:18,360 I'm basically I'm seeing a profile called Club random with 200 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:23,250 Bill Bill Maher it has the app that 5199 64 At apt a pocket 201 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:27,240 podcast index.org It has the show description Bill Maher 202 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,900 rewrites the rules of podcasting the way it did in the television 203 00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:36,240 in the series of one up truncated. It's truncated and it 204 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:41,010 says 40 posts and says bra Okay, so clearly something sexy has 205 00:11:41,010 --> 00:11:41,790 happened in here. 206 00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:47,040 Dave Jones: Okay, so what there is now there is now a server 207 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:52,590 running at a P dot podcast index.org another server it's 208 00:11:52,590 --> 00:11:55,860 actually repurposed so it was with his not add to our to our 209 00:11:55,860 --> 00:11:57,720 monthly bills. Okay, I 210 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,730 Adam Curry: approve all these things immediately, you know, 211 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,010 improve on whatever you want to do. 212 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:09,210 Dave Jones: The Alright, so this is an activity. I'm writing an 213 00:12:09,210 --> 00:12:14,340 activity pub server. Brit bridge, so this is going to 214 00:12:15,870 --> 00:12:17,310 Adam Curry: bridge Yes, yes, the 215 00:12:17,310 --> 00:12:21,960 Dave Jones: index to activity, man. And so this is 216 00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:25,830 Adam Curry: the next alpha the next step is bridging pod ping 217 00:12:25,830 --> 00:12:29,940 to this north that down the line? Well, 218 00:12:29,940 --> 00:12:32,490 Dave Jones: we'll we'll Britt eventually bridge everything's 219 00:12:32,490 --> 00:12:37,890 we'll put the index everywhere that people are man. So but on 220 00:12:37,890 --> 00:12:47,550 but on the back end, pod ping will also be into blood p2p. So 221 00:12:47,550 --> 00:12:51,990 that'll be it'll be in a DHT space. We're, you know, there's 222 00:12:52,020 --> 00:12:54,930 this is sort of the front end bridge, that'll be the back end. 223 00:12:56,130 --> 00:12:58,440 Adam Curry: The back end is the blob that we don't really have 224 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,620 to know about. We just see the front end front end interfaces 225 00:13:01,710 --> 00:13:05,850 Dave Jones: doing his job yet, right. Wow. That Okay, so the, 226 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:15,690 the, the service, what I started with was how do you know how do 227 00:13:15,690 --> 00:13:20,760 you write the most like minimal activity pub server possible? 228 00:13:20,970 --> 00:13:22,170 Adam Curry: Oh, I do that in rust? 229 00:13:22,980 --> 00:13:24,690 Dave Jones: Yes, that's exactly how did you know 230 00:13:25,530 --> 00:13:27,390 Adam Curry: I'm putting two and two together day. 231 00:13:29,460 --> 00:13:35,940 Dave Jones: So this, this, this server I've learned a whole lot 232 00:13:35,940 --> 00:13:43,080 about activity pub this week. One thing I learned is that all 233 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,550 the frustrations of people that talk about activity pub being 234 00:13:47,550 --> 00:13:51,930 too tied in like the the activity pub people that are 235 00:13:51,930 --> 00:13:55,680 frustrated with Mastodon, that is a that is a real thing. And I 236 00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,980 now fully understand it. That's a valid complaint. Okay, it is 237 00:13:58,980 --> 00:14:03,750 very valid. Yes. Because what Mastodon Mastodon does its own 238 00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:10,680 thing, and it's loosely compliant with activity. But in 239 00:14:10,770 --> 00:14:14,550 it's not in what it doesn't do things in the ways that make 240 00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:20,970 sense. So you don't there's a lot of little gotchas. But so 241 00:14:20,970 --> 00:14:25,020 here, here's what's happening when you search in this will 242 00:14:25,020 --> 00:14:28,470 help people understand activity, but because it's actually not as 243 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,300 complicated as it sounds. And under the covers is pretty, it's 244 00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:39,750 a pretty easy thing. So when you quit when you just searched what 245 00:14:39,810 --> 00:14:44,610 what Matt, what Mastodon does, is it immediately sends a web 246 00:14:44,610 --> 00:14:50,970 finger query. So web this this web finger query is web 247 00:14:50,970 --> 00:14:54,750 Adam Curry: finger. Sorry, it 248 00:14:54,750 --> 00:14:59,190 Dave Jones: sing it plays that plays that jingle Yes. Sends a 249 00:14:59,190 --> 00:15:02,880 get request. After it's finished, it sends a GET request 250 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:11,010 to the to API dot podcast index.org/dot well known slash 251 00:15:11,010 --> 00:15:20,790 web finger the end with the with a resource of 5199634. That's 252 00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:22,740 the parameters. You're right, right 253 00:15:22,740 --> 00:15:25,830 Adam Curry: and there and then it then it says, Hello mailbox 254 00:15:25,830 --> 00:15:27,480 what you got? Yeah. 255 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,630 Dave Jones: And it's like, okay, what what it's resolving that is 256 00:15:30,630 --> 00:15:34,080 trying to resolve that to some actual data about this account. 257 00:15:35,010 --> 00:15:40,020 And then at that, we're at that web finger address. There's a 258 00:15:40,020 --> 00:15:47,160 JSON document that lists a bunch of URLs, one of which is what's 259 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:54,510 called inactivity pub speak, the actor. So the so the actor in 260 00:15:54,510 --> 00:16:02,520 this instance, is 5199634, at AP dot podcast, index.org. And all 261 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:09,420 the act all an actor is, is just a JSON document describing 262 00:16:09,630 --> 00:16:13,800 specifically LD JSON that describes or JSON LD describes, 263 00:16:14,370 --> 00:16:15,720 in detail, just 264 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,880 Adam Curry: got all the stuff here, we've got followers 265 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,120 following features. It's got all that stuff in there. 266 00:16:21,540 --> 00:16:26,610 Dave Jones: Right. And so the so that's, so that's what happens 267 00:16:26,610 --> 00:16:29,970 next. So it looks up that does the web finger gets the URL for 268 00:16:29,970 --> 00:16:36,900 the actors document it and then and then calls it to get details 269 00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:42,480 about the profile for some reason Mastodon calls with 270 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,530 finger again, I don't know why. I still haven't figured that 271 00:16:46,530 --> 00:16:50,280 part out. I don't know what it's doing under the covers. But then 272 00:16:50,340 --> 00:16:50,730 we wouldn't 273 00:16:50,730 --> 00:16:53,190 Adam Curry: have a public key here to authenticate that it's 274 00:16:53,190 --> 00:16:53,940 the real deal. 275 00:16:54,570 --> 00:17:00,030 Dave Jones: Yes. So activity pub or I don't know that it's 276 00:17:00,090 --> 00:17:03,480 required in the spec but Mastodon for certainly requires 277 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,630 that did Yes, signing, right that the requests are signed, 278 00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:06,810 got 279 00:17:06,810 --> 00:17:09,780 Adam Curry: a podcast, good here, all kinds of groovy stuff. 280 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,700 Dave Jones: So then, next thing it does is when it gets that 281 00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:17,460 actor document, the actor lists out a bunch of URLs, one of 282 00:17:17,460 --> 00:17:23,640 which are is your inbox URL, right, your outbox URL? The 283 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:29,010 Fall, your feature lowers endpoint and the featured 284 00:17:29,010 --> 00:17:33,240 endpoint so you're so the featured endpoint is what are 285 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:38,820 your your pinned posts. So if you call the featured endpoint 286 00:17:38,820 --> 00:17:42,240 you're gonna get back a list of pinned posts for that account. 287 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:49,290 If you call the the outbox you're going to get a list a 288 00:17:49,290 --> 00:17:55,650 list of like a page or five list of all the posts that that actor 289 00:17:55,650 --> 00:17:59,430 has has posted all the notes that they share to ensure 290 00:18:00,450 --> 00:18:04,560 followers as a list of all the followers blah blah blah. So 291 00:18:05,370 --> 00:18:05,790 which by 292 00:18:05,790 --> 00:18:07,710 Adam Curry: itself would be startling and amazing in 293 00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:12,090 podcasting to see who else is following just saying 294 00:18:13,350 --> 00:18:17,250 Dave Jones: so right up front you cannot follow this account 295 00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:21,870 yet. Right? You can click follow and your server will think as 296 00:18:21,870 --> 00:18:24,240 you're following it but nothing is actually happening right 297 00:18:24,270 --> 00:18:32,880 right in the read the reason for that is inactivity pub world and 298 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:39,990 specifically in Mastodon this made me rephrase that inactivity 299 00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:43,440 post world things are posted to inboxes that's how people get 300 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:44,310 things Yeah, 301 00:18:44,340 --> 00:18:46,440 Adam Curry: so if you're following then you get that post 302 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,300 to your inbox right so 303 00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:51,330 Dave Jones: if you follow when you click the Follow button and 304 00:18:51,330 --> 00:18:58,470 Mastodon to follow club random 5199634 It's what it should do 305 00:18:59,250 --> 00:19:09,840 is send a signed request to the 5199634 inbox URL on on AP dot 306 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:15,840 podcast index.org with an action of follow and then apt up I 307 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:21,210 guess index.org should respond and say accepted that's what 308 00:19:21,210 --> 00:19:27,240 should happen for some reason Mastodon is not doing that 309 00:19:27,450 --> 00:19:30,210 Adam Curry: right I even see Council follow because I would 310 00:19:30,210 --> 00:19:34,770 presume that there has to be some handshake here after I 311 00:19:34,770 --> 00:19:38,670 follow it has to say yes, you're following me so it's giving I 312 00:19:38,670 --> 00:19:41,700 just refresh the page to see if it had an extra follow or does 313 00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:46,020 not but it says cancel follow so that means that my activity pub 314 00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:49,590 account is waiting for some confirmation I guess. 315 00:19:50,220 --> 00:19:52,740 Dave Jones: Right it's waiting for a confirmation but it's but 316 00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:55,500 it's never gonna get one because it's not sending it and I don't 317 00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:59,550 know why. Right. So they there's a lot of things. Why not sure a 318 00:19:59,550 --> 00:20:06,060 white man Well it's Bill Maher's. So there's a lot 319 00:20:06,090 --> 00:20:08,040 there's a lot of things that there's a lot of questions I 320 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,630 still have. Because this this, it took me about a week to get 321 00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:13,350 to this point. 322 00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:16,440 Adam Curry: Wow, while you were sick even that's amazing 323 00:20:17,730 --> 00:20:23,910 Dave Jones: of having sort of the framework necessary to take 324 00:20:24,090 --> 00:20:30,840 step two. So here's the here's the things that I'm still 325 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:36,810 bothered by that I don't have answers to. And I think in Allah 326 00:20:36,810 --> 00:20:40,020 and some of this, I found out that mass these are Mastodon 327 00:20:40,020 --> 00:20:47,280 related issues. So. So here if the outbox URL, if you if you 328 00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:54,690 click on that or go to that, you get a list of all of the of all 329 00:20:54,690 --> 00:20:59,880 the posts, which should which are episodes. Now, let me see if 330 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,100 I can actually let me see if I can pull that 331 00:21:02,130 --> 00:21:06,300 Adam Curry: up. I can I can go right now go to let's see. Oh, 332 00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:08,310 Dave Jones: here it is. Eric peepee. actually posted it come 333 00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:09,540 he posted it in the chat. 334 00:21:11,610 --> 00:21:15,150 Adam Curry: Okay, is it? Oh, yeah, yeah, boom, there it is. 335 00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:19,710 Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay. So these are, these are episodes. Okay, 336 00:21:19,710 --> 00:21:25,020 so that part works. Well, okay. And so what is happening is you 337 00:21:25,020 --> 00:21:30,720 hit the outbox URL 45199634 on the AP dot podcast, index.org 338 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,590 server. It makes an API call in the background to get all the 339 00:21:34,590 --> 00:21:37,350 list of all the episodes and returns all the episodes as if 340 00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:43,740 they were Mastodon, or excuse me activity pub posts. That part 341 00:21:43,740 --> 00:21:49,980 works. But what you would think would happen is that when you 342 00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:54,090 search for that podcast, and it shows you his profile of the 343 00:21:54,090 --> 00:21:57,360 Bill Maher show that you see all the posts, see all the posts 344 00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:01,590 there, right, the mastodon doesn't do that. Okay. Now Don 345 00:22:01,590 --> 00:22:04,710 does not read the outbox and show you the old posts. 346 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,830 Adam Curry: Now, how is this different from? Because this is 347 00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:09,750 so we're still hitting our server? 348 00:22:10,650 --> 00:22:12,840 Dave Jones: Yes, yes. For now. Okay. Yes. 349 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,460 Adam Curry: How does this fit in FY 350 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:25,350 Dave Jones: because it makes the it fed if edifies it by with 351 00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:29,370 this, this is this activity pub server software. The repos 352 00:22:29,370 --> 00:22:32,310 private right now because it's got keys and stuff in it. And I 353 00:22:32,340 --> 00:22:35,640 was strip all those out. I'm going to put make it public. Oh, 354 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,530 and then then fetishize is then anybody? You we because there 355 00:22:40,530 --> 00:22:41,820 could be 10 of these. Right? 356 00:22:41,820 --> 00:22:44,040 Adam Curry: Right. Right. And anyone anyone can start what up? 357 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,190 Yeah, I got it. I got it. Right. In fact, there should be 100 up. 358 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:48,180 Yeah, 359 00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:51,390 Dave Jones: sure. Right. And so you would just, we can load you 360 00:22:51,390 --> 00:22:54,420 know, we can load balance it or through Cloudflare and give it 361 00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:57,210 all a DNS round robin, who knows how we're going to do it. But 362 00:22:57,390 --> 00:23:04,470 we'll figure that part out later. So Mastodon does not show 363 00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:12,630 the outbox. Of of old posts, which irritates the snot out of 364 00:23:14,010 --> 00:23:19,470 you know, I understand. That's it. So that's an issue. Also 365 00:23:19,470 --> 00:23:23,520 Mastadon caches profiles of show. So if I search for a show, 366 00:23:23,790 --> 00:23:30,450 now, like you just did with this one. It's not it seems to be 367 00:23:30,450 --> 00:23:36,000 just stuck. It's static until something else happens. I don't 368 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,820 know how it doesn't seem to refresh in on any sort of 369 00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:46,710 timeframe. Like so if something changes, like, I don't know how 370 00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:51,120 to make that, that update? Maybe that change it, maybe maybe it 371 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,450 starts updating when it starts getting inbox notifications? I 372 00:23:54,450 --> 00:24:00,210 don't know. We hadn't got there yet. In order for the following 373 00:24:00,210 --> 00:24:03,300 to work, so that you can follow the show, we're going to need a 374 00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:04,080 database. 375 00:24:04,170 --> 00:24:06,630 Adam Curry: Yes. Well, that's that's the next part. Yeah. 376 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:07,860 Yeah. So 377 00:24:07,860 --> 00:24:11,700 Dave Jones: we were going to need a SQLite database in this 378 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:15,810 thing, so that when follow requests come in, we can note 379 00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:19,920 who it is. And then in the database, and which shows they 380 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:20,430 follow. 381 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:24,750 Adam Curry: So you're talking about a feta FIDE blob that 382 00:24:24,750 --> 00:24:32,610 includes the activity pub server and a SQL database hanging off 383 00:24:32,610 --> 00:24:36,150 of it. That's a Docker, Docker. Well, you 384 00:24:36,150 --> 00:24:39,540 Dave Jones: know what this is, this is just this is how the 385 00:24:39,540 --> 00:24:41,280 same controller 386 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,120 Adam Curry: is what it is. 387 00:24:43,410 --> 00:24:45,990 Dave Jones: Not it? No, this is not this is free to controller 388 00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:50,010 to point to foreigners. Yes. This is this is the helipad 389 00:24:50,010 --> 00:24:50,580 framework. 390 00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:52,320 Adam Curry: There you go. Yeah, I got you. 391 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,570 Dave Jones: I got you. It's literally the same code just 392 00:24:54,570 --> 00:24:58,380 reengineered to be an activity post server is SQLite database. 393 00:24:58,830 --> 00:25:02,040 It's literally the same framework. I love it. We've 394 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,500 already got all right stuff there. And I'm 395 00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:07,230 Adam Curry: already deployed. So we just upgrade my helipad and 396 00:25:07,260 --> 00:25:09,750 and add those bits to it. Yeah. 397 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,050 Dave Jones: Yeah, you just turn your helipad into an activity. 398 00:25:13,050 --> 00:25:13,650 pubs are just 399 00:25:13,650 --> 00:25:15,690 Adam Curry: fine. I'm good for it. I got five gigabits per 400 00:25:15,690 --> 00:25:16,530 second, I'm good. 401 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,129 Dave Jones: So there's, so there's that. So we're going to 402 00:25:20,129 --> 00:25:24,119 need a database next. So we can keep track of all the follows. 403 00:25:26,309 --> 00:25:30,389 And here's, here's, here's a big one that I did a need. I'm 404 00:25:30,389 --> 00:25:34,169 saying all this out. So people hear you and help you and help 405 00:25:34,169 --> 00:25:37,769 me Yes, I need information. If anybody knows why any of this 406 00:25:37,769 --> 00:25:42,299 stuff necessarily doesn't work, and also advice, because right 407 00:25:42,299 --> 00:25:45,629 now you're searching with podcast index IDs, because 408 00:25:45,629 --> 00:25:49,649 they're easy. Maybe they should maybe we shouldn't be tying 409 00:25:49,649 --> 00:25:51,689 these to podcasts indexed IDs, maybe they should be tied to 410 00:25:51,689 --> 00:25:56,699 Google. It's feed URLs or some, like, I don't know how to 411 00:25:56,699 --> 00:26:02,519 address these in a way that's best information, man, new shit 412 00:26:02,519 --> 00:26:08,579 has come to light information. You know, I don't know. I'm 413 00:26:08,579 --> 00:26:11,399 gonna do it's are long and complicated and hard to get hard 414 00:26:11,399 --> 00:26:14,459 to type. You know, somebody is going to be searching for 415 00:26:14,459 --> 00:26:18,209 something that's, I don't know, this, this. That is something 416 00:26:18,209 --> 00:26:21,329 that I think I need people to think about and have suggestions 417 00:26:21,329 --> 00:26:21,749 for. 418 00:26:21,810 --> 00:26:23,850 Adam Curry: This is a great start, though. I'm excited just 419 00:26:23,850 --> 00:26:26,340 by seeing this part. Yeah, 420 00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:30,090 Dave Jones: I get this far. And I'm like, okay, all right, stop. 421 00:26:30,270 --> 00:26:33,750 Let's discuss publicly and come up with some things before I get 422 00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:36,120 too far down a path that we're gonna have to unroll, you know, 423 00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:40,470 Adam Curry: right. Well, while we're on that, then all right. 424 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,540 When it comes to Mastodon as specifically podcast, index dot 425 00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:50,280 social, I would like to make a public appeal. Can we not start 426 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:55,620 threads that are DMS. There's too much of that going on. 427 00:26:56,790 --> 00:26:59,640 People start with red tag a whole bunch of people, and it's 428 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,290 only visible to those people. And here's why I don't like it. 429 00:27:04,740 --> 00:27:07,950 One is rude. Because exclusionary, it's like, okay, 430 00:27:07,950 --> 00:27:10,020 we're in a secret club, we're discussing this in the back 431 00:27:10,020 --> 00:27:14,040 room. Don't like it, too. When you invite someone into that 432 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,880 thread, they can't see the rest of the posts. So if you're 433 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,790 tagged in this, you get no context. It doesn't work. 434 00:27:20,850 --> 00:27:25,590 There's no reason we need to be doing I really, honestly, this 435 00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:29,190 happens on Norwegian the social.com as well, I despise 436 00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:33,840 it. That you know, send me an email if it's an any and even 437 00:27:33,870 --> 00:27:37,530 it's back channeling I don't like back channeling. We have 438 00:27:37,530 --> 00:27:40,500 this this. We've put this in place so that everybody can 439 00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:45,150 contribute. We don't do it in the open. Other people can't see 440 00:27:45,150 --> 00:27:48,120 it. You're excluding people. You may be excluding someone with 441 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:48,780 the answer. 442 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,700 Dave Jones: to true, very true. Yes. So I totally, totally agree 443 00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:55,890 a second this okay. Past 444 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,380 Adam Curry: emotion, emotion emotion is is passed. Yeah. It's 445 00:28:01,380 --> 00:28:05,070 just like, let's not do that. Let's let's not do that. I don't 446 00:28:05,070 --> 00:28:09,240 like I don't like back channels. This is where podcasting went 447 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,980 wrong. 10 to 13 years ago, back channels, Slack channels, 448 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,280 they're still out there. I know, they're out there. Veteran Vitus 449 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,860 to it. I don't lose not mean, I don't know if you've been 450 00:28:19,860 --> 00:28:22,620 invited to any slack channel. Oh, no, 451 00:28:22,620 --> 00:28:24,420 Dave Jones: I have not thank God, I don't want to be in any 452 00:28:24,420 --> 00:28:24,990 of that stuff, 453 00:28:25,020 --> 00:28:27,120 Adam Curry: you know, and then, and then stuff starts to happen. 454 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:29,190 And then people don't know. And then when you know, then we're 455 00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:30,630 in a bind. So it's not I've 456 00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:34,410 Dave Jones: got way too many ways today. To get my attention 457 00:28:34,410 --> 00:28:35,970 already. I need fewer not more. 458 00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:39,240 Adam Curry: Exactly. In public is great. Public is good at 459 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,110 this. That's the way it 460 00:28:40,110 --> 00:28:44,280 Dave Jones: should be. Open it code should be open source and 461 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:45,210 should so should. 462 00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:48,270 Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. 463 00:28:49,050 --> 00:28:53,610 Dave Jones: It's Yes. You know, a lot of people are saying good. 464 00:28:54,030 --> 00:28:57,360 I'm totally fine with that, that, that, you know, we gotta 465 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,450 figure out a way we got to figure out if that's easy enough 466 00:29:00,450 --> 00:29:02,670 for this to be usable. So Well, let's 467 00:29:02,670 --> 00:29:04,890 Adam Curry: talk about guid for a second because that was one of 468 00:29:04,890 --> 00:29:07,590 the long threads. I don't know if that was a private thread or 469 00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:12,540 not. But people like I love Alex gates. He's like me, it's like 470 00:29:12,540 --> 00:29:15,270 I'm going to reply to you and I'm making it now public. That'd 471 00:29:15,270 --> 00:29:17,580 be I'm making it not private boom public. Okay. Everyone's 472 00:29:17,580 --> 00:29:19,620 like, what what is what I don't know, what's the context of 473 00:29:19,620 --> 00:29:23,940 this? So there's a lot of there's a couple of things that 474 00:29:23,940 --> 00:29:27,150 I have my list that have been going I don't even know where 475 00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:29,970 it's a private threat or not, from now on everything is going 476 00:29:29,970 --> 00:29:35,970 to be public goods. There's a question about this goods in 477 00:29:35,970 --> 00:29:41,880 general goods as a centralized system. That would and I think 478 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,440 we're answering this maybe some of this now with do we feta fie 479 00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:51,750 good? lookups do we need lots of good lookups I believe in Gu 480 00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:54,000 IDs, I think it's the right way to go so that we don't have to 481 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,600 rely on me up. So when something changes, you know, to me, it's 482 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,380 like DNS a good is like DNS. Write up, you know, I can have 483 00:30:01,380 --> 00:30:04,320 curry.com And I can hook that up to any server, I want to I can 484 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,640 change it at a whim and go it should be essentially the same 485 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,100 thing except the GUID brings in a whole bunch of other goodness, 486 00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:17,580 good goodness. Do we have a concept for persons? Because 487 00:30:17,580 --> 00:30:21,600 this is part of the conversation is person gooeys for persons or 488 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,820 what do we do? Yeah. Well, I 489 00:30:23,820 --> 00:30:25,950 Dave Jones: want to, I want to talk about that to 490 00:30:28,170 --> 00:30:30,180 Adam Curry: the where are we? 491 00:30:30,210 --> 00:30:31,440 Dave Jones: Are we done with activity? Pub? 492 00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:36,360 Adam Curry: Well, I think it falls into it, doesn't it? As 493 00:30:36,390 --> 00:30:41,220 the as you as you wish. Yeah. Yeah. What I heard was, somebody 494 00:30:41,220 --> 00:30:44,070 Dave Jones: did come back to the let's, let's come back to the 495 00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:49,470 activity. But we'll talk about goo goo, it's in people's. Yeah, 496 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:54,360 this conversation like, this has been necessary for a while that, 497 00:30:54,540 --> 00:31:02,670 that we need some way to. Alright, the person tag allows 498 00:31:02,670 --> 00:31:04,980 you to define all the characteristics of the person. 499 00:31:05,580 --> 00:31:08,670 But it doesn't have a way to sort of like unique globally, 500 00:31:08,670 --> 00:31:13,320 uniquely identify that. Your specific you're specifying that 501 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,790 information in every single podcast. And episode, you're 502 00:31:17,790 --> 00:31:23,280 not. There's no central repository for, you know, if I'm 503 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,980 if I'm Adam curry, and I'm wanting to put myself into this 504 00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:30,180 thing. How does How do we know that this this data query over 505 00:31:30,180 --> 00:31:35,100 here is the same one as the one over there? Brian? Yeah, I think 506 00:31:35,130 --> 00:31:38,490 that some sort of Gu ID makes sense for all of these things. 507 00:31:38,490 --> 00:31:41,910 Like, it also makes sense for these this notion of channels. 508 00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:46,530 Adam Curry: Yes. Which is also on my list. Yes. Yeah. Do you 509 00:31:46,530 --> 00:31:48,600 want a handy one to do all this in one go? 510 00:31:48,990 --> 00:31:51,660 Dave Jones: Well, I think it's all the same. Yeah. It? 511 00:31:52,050 --> 00:31:53,550 Adam Curry: I think I think you're right, yeah. 512 00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:56,700 Dave Jones: So the thing with podcast goo is, is they're 513 00:31:56,700 --> 00:32:00,810 defined in the feed, because the feed is the source of truth, 514 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,030 payment for itself. You know, the feed the feed defines 515 00:32:06,030 --> 00:32:11,820 itself, sort of, like, sort of like an actor in activity pub. 516 00:32:12,510 --> 00:32:16,470 It defines itself, it's got an ID in there. And literally, the 517 00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:21,000 ID is the URL of the page you're looking at. It's like, it's, 518 00:32:21,270 --> 00:32:27,240 it's, it's a atomic entity. So the same thing with with 519 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,250 podcast, if you're gonna have you're gonna have pocket the 520 00:32:29,250 --> 00:32:33,840 idea here with podcast goods, if people are using us for looking 521 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,410 at goods and translating them to feed URLs, but you don't have to 522 00:32:37,410 --> 00:32:40,710 Brian love Brown of London also has a feed, good resolver 523 00:32:40,710 --> 00:32:45,390 service. The ideal, the idea, and the future is that, you 524 00:32:45,390 --> 00:32:48,750 know, a people could download our database today and crank up 525 00:32:48,750 --> 00:32:52,290 have a good resolver service in two seconds. Right? That's what 526 00:32:52,290 --> 00:32:56,160 Brian did. Yes, I think his code is public. We can have as many 527 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,090 of these as we want. It doesn't have to be us. So all you got to 528 00:33:00,090 --> 00:33:03,090 do is read all the feeds and look at their Gu IDs, and then 529 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:09,780 you got a database. Yes. But the persons and so the let's talk 530 00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:17,250 about so like person Gu ID. That's a little different. That 531 00:33:17,250 --> 00:33:21,600 seems to need to be defined outside of it, because the feed 532 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,870 is not the source of truth for a person. The feeds only the 533 00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:30,030 source of truth for itself. Yeah. A feed can't be the source 534 00:33:30,030 --> 00:33:36,480 of truth for Adam curry. So there it has this, the GUID to 535 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:43,500 person relationship has to be it has to be like reside elsewhere. 536 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,060 And I mean, I think just somebody just needs to build 537 00:33:48,060 --> 00:33:48,870 that service. 538 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,410 Adam Curry: Is there anything like it that exists already? 539 00:33:55,170 --> 00:33:57,660 Dave Jones: I mean, like, the closest thing I can think of 540 00:33:57,660 --> 00:33:59,160 would be something like Wikipedia, you 541 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,940 Adam Curry: know? Yeah, but not everybody has a wiki page. And 542 00:34:02,940 --> 00:34:05,340 that's right is not easy to get one you get you used to be able 543 00:34:05,340 --> 00:34:11,850 to set up a setup page up for yourself. Yeah. So we can if you 544 00:34:11,850 --> 00:34:14,580 build a service, you still need a validation. 545 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,310 Dave Jones: You know what I mean? What do you mean by that? 546 00:34:17,310 --> 00:34:18,360 What do you mean validation? 547 00:34:18,870 --> 00:34:21,120 Adam Curry: Okay, I'm Adam curry. How do we validate that? 548 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:21,930 I'm Adam curry. 549 00:34:24,330 --> 00:34:28,230 Dave Jones: Yes. I'm not sure that we even need a validation 550 00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:28,650 for that. 551 00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:32,280 Adam Curry: Okay. Well, go look at go look at Twitter. And look 552 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,430 how many Adam curry fake accounts there are. And tell me 553 00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:38,100 we don't need a validation for it. No, 554 00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:39,450 Dave Jones: no, no, what I'm saying is we don't have 555 00:34:39,450 --> 00:34:43,980 validation for it. You can't nobody. There's no validation 556 00:34:43,980 --> 00:34:50,640 for anything in RSS, right. And so if we, if we, if you say you 557 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,190 know if you say you're Adam curry and you have your profile 558 00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:54,780 picture and your link 559 00:34:58,350 --> 00:34:59,970 Adam Curry: by the way, I could see this and go ahead. Well 560 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,560 doesn't make sense. Okay. So if I have a podcast, and I'm Adam 561 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,850 curry part of that podcast, why can't I put something into that 562 00:35:08,850 --> 00:35:11,940 feed, which by definition is going to so the feed is the 563 00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:16,680 source of truth. And I put into that feed. This is the guy who 564 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:26,820 you hear in this podcast. You know what I mean? No, no, no, 565 00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:31,770 don't think of following. Okay, so a podcast has people working 566 00:35:31,770 --> 00:35:34,890 on this podcast. This? Well, let's take this podcast, 567 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,330 podcasting. 2.0. And in this podcast, I put two person GUID, 568 00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:44,220 Dave Jones and Adam curry. Okay, we are automatically associated 569 00:35:44,220 --> 00:35:47,520 with this podcast. And there's no one who can dispute that 570 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,760 because you're listening to it. This is this is our podcast, 571 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,170 this is our feed. This is our source of truth. So in in that 572 00:35:55,170 --> 00:35:59,520 feed, why don't we have as a part of the channel item, two 573 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,900 person goods. And it's Adam and Dave. And then and then that can 574 00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:07,320 be either a remote item or can be looked up whatever it is. But 575 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,170 that's, that's our we just, you know, it can be whatever, 576 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,260 whatever number it is, doesn't matter. But the source of truth. 577 00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:17,670 To me, this, our podcast feed is more than a source of truth than 578 00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:19,200 anything else for who's me. 579 00:36:20,550 --> 00:36:23,070 Dave Jones: You know what I mean? So your, your say, so let 580 00:36:23,070 --> 00:36:25,260 me, let me repeat this back to you and make sure I understand. 581 00:36:25,290 --> 00:36:30,390 So you're saying that, since you own the podcast, you can define 582 00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:33,630 yourself, and then everybody else respects that because they 583 00:36:33,630 --> 00:36:37,800 know that you're the feed owner? Yeah. Yes. And so then if you 584 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,340 show up somewhere else, with that same as a person tag with 585 00:36:41,340 --> 00:36:45,900 that same good, it's like, well, yeah, that's that's legit. 586 00:36:46,170 --> 00:36:48,870 Adam Curry: Person sounds like this. That's obviously you're 587 00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:54,390 40. Okay. Yes. That idea? 588 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,790 Dave Jones: Human validation through natural means. Yeah. 589 00:37:01,710 --> 00:37:03,210 Yeah. Well, okay. So, 590 00:37:03,810 --> 00:37:06,720 Adam Curry: when we look, I have my banking details, basically, 591 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:11,310 in my feed. Here's my wallet. Send me money. Yeah, that's, 592 00:37:11,730 --> 00:37:16,290 that's pretty important. So isn't it just as valid as my end 593 00:37:16,290 --> 00:37:19,860 is lots of stuff you can validate against? Hey, I just 594 00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:22,890 sent you a payment. Yes, I got it. What was it? 33 sites? Okay, 595 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:23,400 check. 596 00:37:24,510 --> 00:37:27,720 Dave Jones: Verified. Okay. Okay. So here's, here's a good 597 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:30,810 question. What is the problem we're trying to solve? 598 00:37:31,740 --> 00:37:34,980 Adam Curry: I think the only problem? Okay, what are we 599 00:37:34,980 --> 00:37:40,410 trying to solve? I don't know. I forgot. I think I think the 600 00:37:40,410 --> 00:37:43,080 problem was okay, so chances are the couple of things going on 601 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:49,110 here. There's, there's the idea of a publisher channel that 602 00:37:49,110 --> 00:37:51,420 people have been talking about. It's like, okay, I'm a 603 00:37:51,420 --> 00:37:56,370 publisher. And I have a number of podcasts under my channel. I 604 00:37:56,370 --> 00:37:59,490 don't really know why I need that. But people tell me I do. 605 00:37:59,490 --> 00:38:04,500 So maybe I can certainly see how it works for music. How an 606 00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:10,710 artist wants to have a a feed or a channel or a channel, I guess 607 00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:15,390 with remote items. Being your albums, stuff, you've worked on 608 00:38:15,390 --> 00:38:18,720 things, other people stuff, you're a part of, kind of that 609 00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:22,920 web interlocking interlinking thing we've been talking about. 610 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:28,260 Does that make sense? Yeah. So So I think, I don't know. I 611 00:38:28,260 --> 00:38:31,950 don't really know if there's a problem. I think it's an 612 00:38:31,950 --> 00:38:35,820 enhancement that we want to add to make it easier for people to 613 00:38:35,820 --> 00:38:36,870 group stuff. 614 00:38:38,370 --> 00:38:44,310 Dave Jones: If it feels like it feels like here's, let's let's 615 00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:48,330 keep it let's keep it with persons for now. So that we can 616 00:38:48,450 --> 00:38:51,900 because that seems more we already have a tag for that. And 617 00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:58,140 it seems more easy Lasorda easier to get grasp. The it 618 00:38:58,140 --> 00:39:02,430 seems like what the apps are wanting to do. The problem 619 00:39:02,430 --> 00:39:06,990 that's trying to be solved here is something along the lines of 620 00:39:08,010 --> 00:39:12,780 show me all of the podcasts where Adam curry has appeared. 621 00:39:14,010 --> 00:39:15,900 Adam Curry: Yes, that's one thing. Yes. 622 00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:21,150 Dave Jones: So then, in that sort of that solves your music 623 00:39:21,150 --> 00:39:25,080 artists issue as well. Because then you can just say show me 624 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:30,570 all the podcasts where Ainsley Costello Yes. Is the you know, 625 00:39:30,750 --> 00:39:31,320 roast 626 00:39:31,350 --> 00:39:33,720 Adam Curry: right but now it's kind of freeform it can be Adam 627 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:37,590 curry can be a curry Adam Clark curry. You know, anyone could 628 00:39:37,590 --> 00:39:40,860 enter that and if so, to have a unique identifier for that would 629 00:39:40,860 --> 00:39:42,630 be desirable. 630 00:39:43,590 --> 00:39:46,230 Dave Jones: Yeah, so yeah, that's right, Steven. So I think 631 00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:49,110 it is to find all the shows that same person. Yeah. I'm thinking 632 00:39:49,110 --> 00:39:56,490 that if you know if that's the case, you just need you need a 633 00:39:56,490 --> 00:40:02,280 static identifier that just stretches So, you know, the you, 634 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:08,160 Adam curry is defined on the person tag in this show with Gu 635 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:15,420 ID 12345678. And then on the mere mortals podcast chyron 636 00:40:15,420 --> 00:40:19,260 inserts a person tag for his episode interview with you. And 637 00:40:19,260 --> 00:40:27,270 it's also good 12345678. And we just know, across podcasting 638 00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:30,960 that anytime we see the GUID 12345678 That's Adam curry. 639 00:40:31,530 --> 00:40:34,440 Yeah. So there's got to be. That's why. That's why I said 640 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,080 earlier, I think it just feels like somebody needs to just 641 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,380 build that service. Somebody needs to build a service that 642 00:40:40,380 --> 00:40:48,270 says, where you can just you could just go, like, read put in 643 00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:51,870 time, I can just envision a simplistic thing where you just 644 00:40:51,870 --> 00:40:56,670 say, okay, Adam, Adam curry, here's my, here's my avatar, 645 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,980 here's a link to my bio, click, it gives you back a Gu ID. And 646 00:41:01,980 --> 00:41:04,770 then that becomes your first step, because you stick that in 647 00:41:04,770 --> 00:41:08,820 your person tag. And now you're also registered in this like 648 00:41:08,850 --> 00:41:12,720 database. Like there's this centralized database that's open 649 00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:14,670 source that everybody has access to, 650 00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:17,610 Adam Curry: which we can later identify? Yes. 651 00:41:19,290 --> 00:41:21,600 Dave Jones: Like, you know, it's just like, it just, it doesn't 652 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,750 seem to have it, I can see this sort of central place that 653 00:41:24,750 --> 00:41:29,640 people go to, for create these identities. I mean, hell, it can 654 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,290 even give you like a, you know, PGP key or a nostril key or 655 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,570 whatever it wasn't, 656 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,970 Adam Curry: I wasn't going to try it on the N word, but 657 00:41:40,170 --> 00:41:42,270 Dave Jones: but it's just like he could generate those things 658 00:41:42,270 --> 00:41:43,470 for me, right? Well, 659 00:41:43,470 --> 00:41:46,500 Adam Curry: how about this? This is I'm just going off the wall 660 00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:51,300 here. Isn't that what a DNS domain name is? 661 00:41:54,030 --> 00:41:58,260 Dave Jones: Yeah. What? A unique identifier? You me. Yeah. 662 00:41:59,010 --> 00:42:03,450 Adam Curry: My identifier is curry.com. And here's here's a 663 00:42:03,450 --> 00:42:07,380 thing in my TX T field. Record. 664 00:42:08,220 --> 00:42:11,310 Dave Jones: Oh, you mean for vote for proof of a possible? 665 00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:15,420 Adam Curry: Too much like too much. I took it too far. Well, 666 00:42:16,710 --> 00:42:19,740 Dave Jones: see, this is like the Nippo. Five and all this 667 00:42:19,740 --> 00:42:20,820 good. Like, yeah, 668 00:42:20,820 --> 00:42:23,370 Adam Curry: I'm not I'm not I'm not that interested in that in 669 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,550 the validation part is less interesting than just having it. 670 00:42:27,450 --> 00:42:27,900 You see, I 671 00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:30,090 Dave Jones: think, yeah, I agree. That's, that's where I'm 672 00:42:30,090 --> 00:42:35,040 at. I'm just not sure you have to be validated. Like, it's 673 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,980 because you're valid. Like you said, the validation is the fact 674 00:42:37,980 --> 00:42:42,660 that that's in the field, put your feet that you own, right. 675 00:42:42,930 --> 00:42:47,550 And so like if Bill Maher has an identity, a Gu ID of eight, six, 676 00:42:47,550 --> 00:42:53,550 you know, ACM 654321. In his feed, it's like, well, that's 677 00:42:53,550 --> 00:42:58,230 him. That's his news feed. Right, right. And then everybody 678 00:42:58,230 --> 00:43:02,580 else that uses that they're referencing him like you have 679 00:43:02,580 --> 00:43:06,180 this random Bill Maher that has some crazy good that no, but 680 00:43:06,180 --> 00:43:10,200 that doesn't exist anywhere else except this one instance. You 681 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,970 can ignore that because that's bogus. Like it just it feels 682 00:43:14,970 --> 00:43:19,260 like it's easy to ignore the fake ones because there's going 683 00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:22,860 to be so many instances of the right one being used. 684 00:43:23,220 --> 00:43:26,640 Adam Curry: And right now, we're only talking about a person good 685 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,890 as it relates to people who are creators. Because if you're a 686 00:43:31,890 --> 00:43:35,400 guest and you don't have a podcast, then you don't have a 687 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:41,970 source of truth. You're basically not real real person, 688 00:43:42,450 --> 00:43:43,860 Dave Jones: you know what I mean? But you're basically 689 00:43:43,860 --> 00:43:45,960 you're basically Neil deGrasse Tyson 690 00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:48,480 Adam Curry: I think we should keep it does I like this I'd 691 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,720 like this to me is let's keep it simple because I can already see 692 00:43:52,050 --> 00:43:55,800 the 5000 posts thread on this which I'm not that interested 693 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:56,100 in. 694 00:43:57,690 --> 00:43:59,520 Dave Jones: With private with private mentions. Yes. 695 00:43:59,580 --> 00:44:01,830 Adam Curry: Yeah. But just you know, like well, we have this 696 00:44:01,830 --> 00:44:03,990 and we have to have that we could talk about this for a long 697 00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:08,820 long time. But I liked the idea of just having a in your feed. 698 00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:16,710 I'm Adam curry and what is the actual What is the need to take 699 00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:23,310 a look what is the what are the fields what are the tags that we 700 00:44:23,310 --> 00:44:24,180 have right now? 701 00:44:25,110 --> 00:44:25,980 Dave Jones: In the namespace 702 00:44:28,590 --> 00:44:33,210 Adam Curry: now Yeah, well now just in RSS by itself for the in 703 00:44:33,210 --> 00:44:35,280 the feed so in the feed we have 704 00:44:35,790 --> 00:44:37,740 Dave Jones: the like author and stuff Yeah. What 705 00:44:37,740 --> 00:44:41,880 Adam Curry: is the what is the actual webmaster webmaster? Oh, 706 00:44:42,090 --> 00:44:42,810 Dave Jones: that's an old school. 707 00:44:43,350 --> 00:44:47,910 Adam Curry: It's very old school. Says Managing Editor 708 00:44:47,940 --> 00:44:50,370 Wow, there's all this what kind of bullcrap is all this? 709 00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:54,690 Dave Jones: Managing Editor forget about Yeah, we should 710 00:44:54,690 --> 00:44:57,480 just because Dave wonder wanted it to be, you know, one of the 711 00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,490 New York Times New York. Yes. 712 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,660 Adam Curry: So we should we should add a tag for this. 713 00:45:05,580 --> 00:45:07,590 Dave Jones: No? Yeah. Yeah, that 714 00:45:07,620 --> 00:45:10,710 Adam Curry: person person. Good. So anyway, so right now we have 715 00:45:11,070 --> 00:45:16,080 podcast person, right? And maybe we just add a type equals in 716 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,920 this case, how about that? So we don't have to go too crazy but 717 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:27,300 podcast person. And and here we have URL image and then group 718 00:45:27,300 --> 00:45:32,310 role but that's part of the text harmony taxonomy. And then we 719 00:45:32,310 --> 00:45:33,990 just need a GUID equals. 720 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,900 Dave Jones: Is that simple? Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at sort 721 00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:42,840 of the conversation in the chat. And there's, there's a lot of 722 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,880 people talking about with finger and that kind of thing. That's 723 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,990 an interesting idea. Because you could, if you wanted to bring in 724 00:45:48,990 --> 00:45:56,430 a validation piece, what you could do is something like, what 725 00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,720 you could reference like your activity pub account. Because, 726 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,700 you know, like, you could go and say, like your actor, your actor 727 00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:12,000 ID URL. You can say, this is me. This is me, this is my Gu ID, my 728 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:17,310 Gu ID is, you know, we're saying we're using the term GUID. And 729 00:46:17,310 --> 00:46:20,460 we're thinking about these long strings of numbers separated by 730 00:46:20,460 --> 00:46:23,370 dashes. But it doesn't necessarily have to be that I 731 00:46:23,370 --> 00:46:27,450 mean, in activity pub, your identity is not a Gu ID it is a 732 00:46:27,450 --> 00:46:32,370 URL. Right? Right. Right. And so if, if you have, if those 733 00:46:32,370 --> 00:46:40,110 identities were URLs, that's fine, then you could have, you 734 00:46:40,110 --> 00:46:43,800 could also have the ability to then sign with your, with your 735 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,410 public key, I mean, with your private key, and they could be 736 00:46:46,410 --> 00:46:49,860 validated with the public key. So it feels like other people 737 00:46:49,860 --> 00:46:56,520 could say, Okay, you put your actor ID in there, your actor 738 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,850 URL, it's gonna have your public key in it, and you can do 739 00:46:59,850 --> 00:47:04,980 validation that and then the, these, in these end these, these 740 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,450 apps, if they choose to, can also validate you if they want 741 00:47:09,450 --> 00:47:10,740 to go that extra step. How 742 00:47:10,740 --> 00:47:12,570 Adam Curry: do we get the podcast standards group to 743 00:47:12,570 --> 00:47:13,620 accept this? 744 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:24,360 Dave Jones: Begging we beg we beg it is it? I think, I mean, 745 00:47:24,690 --> 00:47:26,580 Adam Curry: you know, what's a great what? A great unique 746 00:47:26,580 --> 00:47:33,660 identifier, an email address. Let's put that that's exactly 747 00:47:33,660 --> 00:47:36,750 what it was. That was that was the identifier. And we had to 748 00:47:36,750 --> 00:47:40,020 take it out. Because a cast was spamming everybody. Good work, 749 00:47:40,020 --> 00:47:41,460 everybody. Good work. 750 00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:44,940 Dave Jones: Yep. And you know, who, and people were bringing up 751 00:47:44,940 --> 00:47:47,790 pod chaser being this, they cast bought them to 752 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,570 Adam Curry: bastards? That was literally the perfect 753 00:47:51,570 --> 00:47:55,710 identifier. Because you had email someone you can, you know, 754 00:47:55,740 --> 00:47:59,970 it's like it was perfect. No, we had to get rid of that. I think 755 00:48:00,060 --> 00:48:01,800 I think we just force it to go back. 756 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:06,930 Dave Jones: Now, and everything's just email 757 00:48:06,930 --> 00:48:08,460 addresses, again, all the way down. 758 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:13,320 Adam Curry: It's perfect. And we're all the way back to the 759 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,830 podcast cars, right? We're all the way back to square one. It 760 00:48:16,830 --> 00:48:19,230 was so perfect. It's exactly what you want. How do you 761 00:48:19,230 --> 00:48:22,920 identify someone by the email address is perfect. And then 762 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,030 we'll get spam. 763 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:30,660 Dave Jones: I think the thing I think if we, if we can figure 764 00:48:30,660 --> 00:48:35,370 out some way to be able to reference an activity public 765 00:48:35,370 --> 00:48:38,190 count. I think that's a pretty I think that's pretty strong. 766 00:48:39,090 --> 00:48:40,860 Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm good with that. Yeah, that's, that's 767 00:48:40,860 --> 00:48:43,290 pretty cool. Because you can take that with you from server 768 00:48:43,290 --> 00:48:44,010 to server. 769 00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:49,020 Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. And then like, I'm actually getting 770 00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:50,100 pretty high on that. 771 00:48:51,690 --> 00:48:53,790 Adam Curry: Oh, hold on a second. Here we go. Ladies and 772 00:48:53,790 --> 00:48:59,160 gentlemen. All right. How are you feeling now? Is that when 773 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:00,510 finger making you feel good? 774 00:49:05,460 --> 00:49:07,560 Dave Jones: You just cruised into some hot namespace talk 775 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,540 without playing the jingle or you get a yellow card. 776 00:49:12,510 --> 00:49:13,710 Adam Curry: Some so sorry. 777 00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:17,640 Dave Jones: I think that would work. 778 00:49:17,970 --> 00:49:19,860 Adam Curry: I'm all Yeah. Okay. I'm good with that. 779 00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:25,170 Dave Jones: open discussion for people to do give ideas. Yeah. 780 00:49:25,470 --> 00:49:29,370 Yes. Fire away. Fire away. Well, there will be plenty. 781 00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:33,900 Adam Curry: Yeah, and from that, I think flows. Everything else 782 00:49:33,900 --> 00:49:39,720 can kind of flow. But it really comes down to and it's it's 783 00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:46,320 wonderful watching Dolby das and Barry. How they put things 784 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,630 together for the artists for music podcasts. Because they're 785 00:49:51,630 --> 00:49:53,640 making it they're making assumptions to hear they're just 786 00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:56,490 they're just doing stuff and I really love looking I haven't 787 00:49:56,490 --> 00:50:02,400 looked at pod home.fm But I want to go through both the the 788 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:06,210 podcasts, path and the music path. But there's a lot of 789 00:50:06,210 --> 00:50:08,760 interesting stuff happening this year if you've been following 790 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,700 this is our C code. Discussion. 791 00:50:13,559 --> 00:50:16,049 Dave Jones: I 's or I don't know, I don't know, this is news 792 00:50:16,049 --> 00:50:16,799 to me. Well, 793 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,710 Adam Curry: believe it or not, there's a GUID for recordings. 794 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,720 It's the internet is RC international standard recording 795 00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:29,430 code, which enables an ISP like an ISP completely, which enables 796 00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:32,040 sound recordings and music videos to be uniquely and 797 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:36,840 permanently identified is RC helps to avoid ambiguity among 798 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,660 recordings and simplifies the management of rights when 799 00:50:39,660 --> 00:50:42,870 recordings are used across different formats. So this is an 800 00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:50,790 open an open database, I believe it has an API, and anybody can 801 00:50:50,790 --> 00:50:54,390 submit their recording, I believe I have not done any of 802 00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:57,660 this work myself. And the idea is that you can register and so 803 00:50:57,660 --> 00:51:00,750 it's not the song. It's not the copyright is the actual 804 00:51:00,750 --> 00:51:08,340 recording itself. So if you add an AI SRC code into your ID, 805 00:51:08,340 --> 00:51:12,240 that will be that will be a unique identifier. That actually 806 00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:17,220 would be a that would be a great unique identifier. For that's a 807 00:51:17,220 --> 00:51:20,040 good it's a good I don't care what you call it. It's a good 808 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,140 right there. You don't need anything else. That's a good 809 00:51:22,170 --> 00:51:25,920 done. That number is a good of course, if you're at pod fans, 810 00:51:25,950 --> 00:51:27,630 it's already a part of the interface. 811 00:51:30,180 --> 00:51:31,620 Dave Jones: As of today, yes, as 812 00:51:31,620 --> 00:51:33,960 Adam Curry: of today, it's you can already go and edit your RSS 813 00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,960 feed at pod fans, and make whatever you want to make. 814 00:51:42,300 --> 00:51:49,950 So I think these are all great ideas. I don't know if ASRC code 815 00:51:49,950 --> 00:51:55,410 has to be a separate tag or if it can just be a GUID. The, to 816 00:51:55,410 --> 00:52:00,330 me it feels like that's a good for identifying a unique 817 00:52:00,330 --> 00:52:01,110 recording. 818 00:52:01,980 --> 00:52:04,710 Dave Jones: So is there a hash that goes with it? I mean, like 819 00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:07,890 does it does it take the recording and somehow hash it? 820 00:52:09,630 --> 00:52:14,460 Adam Curry: The structure of ice SRC comprises 12 alphanumeric 821 00:52:14,460 --> 00:52:17,130 characters, which you'll be presented with the four 822 00:52:17,130 --> 00:52:22,860 character prefix is RC when displayed in printed form? So I 823 00:52:22,860 --> 00:52:29,940 think they you you register and it sends you back a code 824 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,960 Dave Jones: see the code I don't know what that code really is. I 825 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:34,140 was 826 00:52:34,140 --> 00:52:39,270 Adam Curry: like is RCA dash six Q seven dash two Oh dash oh four 827 00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:44,340 seven is okay i SRC code identifier, the prefix code five 828 00:52:44,340 --> 00:52:48,480 character alphanumeric code allocated by the I SRC agency. 829 00:52:50,220 --> 00:52:53,310 And then you get the year of reference. That's the last two 830 00:52:53,310 --> 00:52:56,700 digits of the year, followed by the five digit unique code 831 00:52:56,730 --> 00:52:58,800 assigned by the registrant. 832 00:52:59,460 --> 00:53:02,760 Dave Jones: Brother this is like this is like how you figured out 833 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,860 if your tires are old. You read the code and you 834 00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,300 Adam Curry: change toys and 12 year my beer was born on 835 00:53:12,300 --> 00:53:21,120 November 1. There you go. Right. Okay. Well, it's, it's something 836 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,140 that Julie Costello brought up and Julie Costello is really 837 00:53:25,140 --> 00:53:27,600 interesting. She'll send me an email said, hey, you know, this 838 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,420 might be off the wall. But we had a question about an artist 839 00:53:30,420 --> 00:53:34,320 who wonder if you could put an is our C code into RSS to track 840 00:53:34,620 --> 00:53:37,860 a song has been uploaded. And I go that's interesting. And then 841 00:53:37,860 --> 00:53:41,550 I find out that she's talked to Sir Spencer and Abel Kirby. 842 00:53:41,580 --> 00:53:45,240 She's talked to everybody about she's building consensus in her 843 00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:48,450 own little back channel, which is funny by itself. Yes, you're 844 00:53:48,450 --> 00:53:50,670 getting back channel now. Oh, yeah. And before you know it, 845 00:53:50,670 --> 00:53:53,460 like Oh, Dobby, Das has already put it in. Okay, and now it's in 846 00:53:53,460 --> 00:53:58,170 pot fans. It's not really a tag yet, but okay. So this one's got 847 00:53:58,170 --> 00:54:02,220 it in his TLV. So there there is prior art already, but it's 848 00:54:02,220 --> 00:54:05,310 something that we need to look at. And I would suggest, if 849 00:54:05,310 --> 00:54:10,590 somebody wants that as a tag, then put it in the GitHub but 850 00:54:10,590 --> 00:54:14,430 let's let's do these let's put let's put proposals in if you 851 00:54:14,430 --> 00:54:16,920 got something that you liked, that's working make it a 852 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:23,940 proposal. Or Or yeah, what is it discussion so it can become so 853 00:54:23,940 --> 00:54:27,930 it can become a what's the next What's up from proposal? 854 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:41,850 Dave Jones: Attaboy good job as Dan has been very neglectful, 855 00:54:42,090 --> 00:54:48,030 kind of purposely about the namespace repository because 856 00:54:48,420 --> 00:54:52,560 like, you know, we're not that far removed from from from the 857 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:58,980 last phase and and trying to get some I'm trying to get some some 858 00:54:58,980 --> 00:55:03,570 code written do Yeah. And as to Matt, I can't have split 859 00:55:03,570 --> 00:55:07,590 attention in a million places. So the, at some, at some point, 860 00:55:07,590 --> 00:55:10,230 I'm going to finish, I'm gonna get this code to a good point. 861 00:55:10,230 --> 00:55:13,620 And then just like, flip back, probably towards the end of this 862 00:55:13,620 --> 00:55:17,400 month, just flip back to like, full time for a couple of weeks 863 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:21,210 namespace stuff to get caught up on and get things cleaned up on 864 00:55:21,210 --> 00:55:25,830 that. So yeah, proposals for sure. And if there's no post 865 00:55:25,830 --> 00:55:29,310 commentary proposed, yeah. So I was looking for, yes, there's no 866 00:55:29,310 --> 00:55:32,820 commentary from me Don't don't think it's been, you know, it's 867 00:55:33,060 --> 00:55:36,360 dad or something. It's just that we'll we'll get there in a 868 00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:37,320 little while ago, 869 00:55:37,350 --> 00:55:39,810 Adam Curry: I heard I heard, I was doing the show prep today, 870 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:45,450 listening to podcast, weekly review, pod, Newsweek, Newsweek, 871 00:55:45,810 --> 00:55:51,390 and an hour. And James Cridland said, we should probably remove 872 00:55:51,390 --> 00:55:54,840 some tags from the namespace that are just not being used. 873 00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:58,410 I'm kind of against that. I think if we've, if we've 874 00:55:58,410 --> 00:56:00,780 approved something for the namespace, even if it's not 875 00:56:00,780 --> 00:56:05,490 used, it should just be there. Because there's stuff that that 876 00:56:05,490 --> 00:56:08,640 I've seen in namespaces that was not used, for instance, to the 877 00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,360 media, RSS, for example. Now, it didn't go anywhere. But man, it 878 00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,090 got a lot of attention. Because, you know, it's like, oh, there's 879 00:56:15,090 --> 00:56:17,550 a lot of good stuff in here. That even though no one's really 880 00:56:17,550 --> 00:56:20,610 using it could be used for something else. I feel like, 881 00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:25,200 once we've approved something to go into the namespace, it may be 882 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,290 a next generation that says, Oh, look at this, they because it 883 00:56:28,290 --> 00:56:32,580 also shows an idea. Even if it's not picked up. Now, sometimes 884 00:56:32,580 --> 00:56:35,130 things get picked up, like pod roll, I think is an excellent 885 00:56:35,130 --> 00:56:39,300 example. Actually. You know, it lingered for a year at least. 886 00:56:39,300 --> 00:56:42,810 And then you know, all of a sudden, it gets picked up. And 887 00:56:42,810 --> 00:56:45,420 then it gets implemented. So I'm not I don't think we should be 888 00:56:45,420 --> 00:56:47,580 cleaning stuff up or removing it. 889 00:56:48,450 --> 00:56:51,660 Dave Jones: 1,000% No, I agree with 890 00:56:51,660 --> 00:56:56,760 Adam Curry: you. Yeah. It's like no, just even if I agree, 1,000% 891 00:56:56,910 --> 00:57:00,840 Dave Jones: No, I don't think anything should be to come. He 892 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,780 can just if it's gonna die, it'll just die. I mean, it 893 00:57:03,780 --> 00:57:09,360 doesn't have to be it. I mean, look at activity pub. It took 10 894 00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,210 years for anybody to do much of anything with that spec. 895 00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:14,370 Adam Curry: That's right. It was good. NEW SOCIAL wasn't it 896 00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,040 wasn't that's what it was initially. Yeah. 897 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,960 Dave Jones: And then and then Mastodon picked it up and ran 898 00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:27,210 with ran with it. And now it's a huge deal. I mean, it Live it 899 00:57:27,210 --> 00:57:30,720 really did languish for many, many years before anybody do 900 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,920 anything with it. So like, like alternative closure, very little 901 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:41,700 used hardly at all. But the idea is so solid and so sound that 902 00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,110 one of these days, I host may see it and be like, You know 903 00:57:46,110 --> 00:57:49,830 what? That is? We need to do this because we have a specific 904 00:57:49,830 --> 00:57:52,200 use case. Yes, pod fans in depth. 905 00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:56,250 Adam Curry: We have a use case with POD fans. We need to start 906 00:57:56,250 --> 00:57:58,440 doing that right away. Yeah, 907 00:57:58,890 --> 00:58:03,090 Dave Jones: like you might be the right. The right use meats 908 00:58:03,090 --> 00:58:04,050 the right time. 909 00:58:04,110 --> 00:58:07,050 Adam Curry: That exactly it just is just the timing of stuff. 910 00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:08,400 Absolutely. That's the way 911 00:58:09,870 --> 00:58:12,780 Dave Jones: and once you put something in you cannot take it 912 00:58:12,780 --> 00:58:15,840 back out. Right, you really can't without break because it 913 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,450 might break some people out there using it and also now 914 00:58:18,450 --> 00:58:25,530 they're out of spec. I disagree with that. I also don't think 915 00:58:25,530 --> 00:58:29,670 that I think the podcast Android project is doing a fine job. I 916 00:58:29,670 --> 00:58:31,530 wish they updated anything wrong. 917 00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,540 Adam Curry: I keep looking at the GitHub in the end you know, 918 00:58:33,540 --> 00:58:36,930 they I don't I don't see pod rolling their GitHub. This is 919 00:58:36,930 --> 00:58:38,910 what I don't understand. I 920 00:58:38,910 --> 00:58:43,110 Dave Jones: think their job is to move at glacial speed. Yes, 921 00:58:43,500 --> 00:58:46,350 our job is to move at the speed at the speed of you know 922 00:58:46,380 --> 00:58:51,870 scissors atomic broccoli, broccoli and the bed there their 923 00:58:51,870 --> 00:58:56,940 job is to move very very very slow and they're doing their job 924 00:58:56,940 --> 00:59:00,720 if I don't if they move fast things are going to get messed 925 00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:00,990 up 926 00:59:01,020 --> 00:59:01,530 Adam Curry: I agree 927 00:59:02,730 --> 00:59:08,910 Dave Jones: that they don't know that moving fast is a is a is a 928 00:59:08,910 --> 00:59:14,970 liability for a group like that whereas it's a feature for us so 929 00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,940 yeah, not I don't have any problem with the way they went 930 00:59:17,940 --> 00:59:21,300 the way they went the way they roll. Yes they didn't good 931 00:59:21,330 --> 00:59:21,810 couple other 932 00:59:21,810 --> 00:59:26,100 Adam Curry: things that came up and this it's interesting to see 933 00:59:26,100 --> 00:59:32,010 this okay categories is a is a is a big hot button. And it's 934 00:59:32,010 --> 00:59:35,280 really a hot button for one person. So Libra because he does 935 00:59:35,310 --> 00:59:40,830 show a music podcast about which is thrash metal music and he 936 00:59:40,830 --> 00:59:47,040 can't find thrash metal music. Now, so the idea was, we were 937 00:59:47,070 --> 00:59:50,010 what we discussed last we touched on the so this is not 938 00:59:50,010 --> 00:59:54,570 the same as medium equals type. This medium type equals this is 939 00:59:54,690 --> 00:59:57,750 categories and we you and I discussed in the previous board 940 00:59:57,750 --> 01:00:01,440 meeting and everyone was here. They all heard it They were 941 01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:06,000 sitting on the beanbags. Are you trying to prove this prove the 942 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,760 proof I prove everyone was here knows everybody knows it. Yeah, 943 01:00:08,790 --> 01:00:12,510 everyone knows it. That we talked about freeform 944 01:00:12,510 --> 01:00:13,380 categories. 945 01:00:14,070 --> 01:00:16,710 Dave Jones: We did, yes. Now this vouch for this. So 946 01:00:16,710 --> 01:00:21,030 Adam Curry: there seems to be some some, this is where you 947 01:00:21,030 --> 01:00:25,410 have. Okay, so apple won't accept that. And what that 948 01:00:25,410 --> 01:00:29,160 means? I don't know. I don't know what that is. Well, it's 949 01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:34,470 like, well, Apple categories don't work that way. So I'm not 950 01:00:34,470 --> 01:00:38,310 quite sure. I don't know. I don't know what that means. I 951 01:00:38,310 --> 01:00:41,880 just feel pushed back about, there's people I'm in favor of 952 01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,850 it. I'm like, Okay, there's couple things I'm in favor of 953 01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,930 tagging stuff however you want to tag it. Hashtags have worked 954 01:00:48,930 --> 01:00:53,610 great. Yes, there's hashtag abuse. And there's you know, and 955 01:00:53,610 --> 01:00:55,830 that's a separate I'll put that over here for a second because 956 01:00:55,830 --> 01:00:58,680 there's people me Oh, if I see hashtag abuse, that's usually 957 01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,480 something I block. I'm like, I'm not interested in what you're 958 01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:04,800 doing. Because you're doing you're just spamming but I 959 01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:09,510 personally feel hashtag free form categories are a good idea. 960 01:01:10,170 --> 01:01:14,190 Is that something we need to codify? What do we need to do to 961 01:01:15,570 --> 01:01:17,100 to get that solidified? 962 01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:27,330 Dave Jones: That's see this. This is the same sort of 963 01:01:27,780 --> 01:01:35,010 discussion as person and channels and did you introduce 964 01:01:35,010 --> 01:01:36,030 crack open a cold one? 965 01:01:36,060 --> 01:01:38,430 Adam Curry: Yes. Pabst Blue Ribbon, you better believe that? 966 01:01:41,820 --> 01:01:42,840 PBR baby, 967 01:01:44,100 --> 01:01:50,580 Dave Jones: the so there's a there's a sense here in which 968 01:01:50,610 --> 01:01:53,940 this is all okay. Um, so I'm trying to wrap my head around 969 01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:58,980 this, this category of issue. Because these, this really is 970 01:01:58,980 --> 01:02:05,340 the same sort of thing as a person identifiers, channel 971 01:02:05,340 --> 01:02:11,310 identifiers. And and then we can also say, freeform categories. 972 01:02:11,820 --> 01:02:15,750 So there's going to, there's going to exist in this in this 973 01:02:15,750 --> 01:02:22,260 world that we envision there's going to exist somewhere a list 974 01:02:22,860 --> 01:02:28,890 of these freeform categories as people use them. So that's what 975 01:02:28,890 --> 01:02:33,720 happens like on Twitter and Mastodon, you go to tight you 976 01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:37,110 start typing a free freeform hashtag in it gives you 977 01:02:37,110 --> 01:02:40,980 suggestions of like, this is what other people have done that 978 01:02:41,010 --> 01:02:44,760 are like what you've typed in, so then you usually look at it 979 01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:49,140 and you're like, Oh, I was about to type, you know, hashtag a 980 01:02:49,140 --> 01:02:54,780 Olympics 2024 But it's actually you know, 80 million people are 981 01:02:54,780 --> 01:02:56,100 using a Olympics 20 982 01:02:56,130 --> 01:02:58,800 Adam Curry: Right, which Okay, so let me read the post that 983 01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,010 triggers us because what I am doing here is I'm just your eyes 984 01:03:02,010 --> 01:03:05,040 and ears on the street. I mean, the gutter. I mean, the podcast 985 01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,890 gutter laying down looking at the mud that people are slinging 986 01:03:07,890 --> 01:03:09,240 all over the place. You 987 01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:11,340 Dave Jones: get it? You're get you were in a ghillie suit? 988 01:03:11,370 --> 01:03:11,820 Exactly. 989 01:03:13,170 --> 01:03:15,690 Adam Curry: Certainly, we desperately need a mechanism to 990 01:03:15,690 --> 01:03:19,620 signal music genres, the sooner the better. Each day more albums 991 01:03:19,620 --> 01:03:23,520 get added that will need to be modified after we figure it out. 992 01:03:23,850 --> 01:03:26,910 I know only a small percentage will go back and add genres to 993 01:03:26,910 --> 01:03:29,880 their feeds effectively orphaning them from futures on 994 01:03:29,910 --> 01:03:34,380 genre searches. I was hoping that category tag would be on 995 01:03:34,380 --> 01:03:42,630 the way, by the way, a private post. Dumb and then okay, so and 996 01:03:42,630 --> 01:03:49,650 then here is the discussion. Quote, Apple will never extend 997 01:03:49,650 --> 01:03:53,580 their categories. Okay, so this is where this is all backchannel 998 01:03:53,580 --> 01:03:58,710 stuff, this is what I despise. So much so this wasn't out in 999 01:03:58,710 --> 01:04:03,120 the open, so we really should just ignore it totally. But I 1000 01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:08,280 think I understand where this is coming from. Because we're we 1001 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:12,750 are running at a very fast speed with music. stuff is coming in 1002 01:04:12,780 --> 01:04:17,790 and, and as a guy who played does as a podcast filled with 1003 01:04:17,790 --> 01:04:24,390 music, not necessarily music cast, that's the next topic. I 1004 01:04:24,390 --> 01:04:27,540 understand, you know, it's like, okay, people just throwing stuff 1005 01:04:27,540 --> 01:04:30,690 up. And I have to listen to everything before I can figure 1006 01:04:30,690 --> 01:04:34,470 out what it is. Which for me is okay. I mean, there's not that 1007 01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:37,020 much. I mean, I listen to everything new that comes out. 1008 01:04:37,380 --> 01:04:44,340 But having having categories that people can use when they 1009 01:04:44,370 --> 01:04:48,840 when they're uploading either podcast, and I agree that I 1010 01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:52,170 think podcasts there's more hashtags or categories that can 1011 01:04:52,170 --> 01:04:56,700 be used for podcast descriptions, and for music. So 1012 01:04:56,700 --> 01:05:00,930 I guess the question is, is this a tag that we declare reform. 1013 01:05:01,290 --> 01:05:05,520 And then again, you're right with this our lookup service 1014 01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:08,070 that sends back hints. I mean, I'm not sure what to do here, 1015 01:05:08,070 --> 01:05:08,460 Dave, 1016 01:05:09,570 --> 01:05:13,620 Dave Jones: this is this is this category of problem is there 1017 01:05:13,620 --> 01:05:17,850 seems to be it, you'd need to make this work, you'd need a 1018 01:05:17,850 --> 01:05:19,020 lookup service, right? 1019 01:05:19,590 --> 01:05:22,080 Adam Curry: We don't want to be there for all of these. We don't 1020 01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,030 want to be that. Well, 1021 01:05:24,030 --> 01:05:26,820 Dave Jones: I mean, we will always be all of these things, 1022 01:05:26,820 --> 01:05:36,270 you know. But really, it needs to be something that is it, it 1023 01:05:36,270 --> 01:05:40,410 needs to be something that's doable by more people than just 1024 01:05:40,410 --> 01:05:50,790 us. And that, you know, I don't mind. So, this gets back to sort 1025 01:05:50,790 --> 01:05:53,370 of, okay, we get front, you got front end, you get back. And so 1026 01:05:54,000 --> 01:06:01,860 the front end of interface to podcast data. We're working on 1027 01:06:01,860 --> 01:06:05,700 that with these things like activity pub bridge. And the 1028 01:06:05,700 --> 01:06:12,960 API, you know, the the back end needs to be federated, I'm using 1029 01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:18,060 that term loosely, into something that is more like 1030 01:06:18,060 --> 01:06:25,020 IPFS. Where this data doesn't have to reside in the podcast 1031 01:06:25,020 --> 01:06:32,040 index. It will, in will always reside there. But it's more like 1032 01:06:32,370 --> 01:06:36,000 the podcast index is a participant in a system where 1033 01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:37,680 everybody has this data. 1034 01:06:37,980 --> 01:06:40,770 Adam Curry: Right? So okay, so you're right. So we, in essence, 1035 01:06:40,770 --> 01:06:43,710 we have to be at first in parallel, we're running to 1036 01:06:43,710 --> 01:06:46,740 distribute this so everybody can be the lookup service. 1037 01:06:47,820 --> 01:06:50,010 Dave Jones: Yes. And like I would love for the lookup 1038 01:06:50,010 --> 01:06:55,020 service to be something like some sort of DHT distributed key 1039 01:06:55,020 --> 01:06:57,450 value store. Paging expera. 1040 01:06:57,450 --> 01:07:00,570 Adam Curry: Locks, paging, Spurlock new services needed. 1041 01:07:01,890 --> 01:07:03,780 While five cleaned up. 1042 01:07:06,420 --> 01:07:08,040 Dave Jones: It'll be done by Fridays, but 1043 01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,890 Adam Curry: How about how about this? I do I do. I do. How about 1044 01:07:16,890 --> 01:07:21,450 this? Can we back it into? Can we Okay, so we have lookup 1045 01:07:21,450 --> 01:07:23,730 service. There's a couple we have lookup services that we're 1046 01:07:23,730 --> 01:07:28,440 talking about. Good lookups services. Category lookup 1047 01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,820 services is called a hashtag. Activity pub actually does this. 1048 01:07:34,290 --> 01:07:40,860 Yeah, if I go and look for a hashtag, I do hashtag let me see 1049 01:07:40,860 --> 01:07:48,480 Thrash. So I'm doing thrash for thrash metal, and it's giving me 1050 01:07:48,510 --> 01:07:53,730 some crappy options. But if I hit thrash is going to show me, 1051 01:07:54,090 --> 01:07:58,380 thrash, thrash, metal thrash or thrash Thursday, should we not 1052 01:07:58,770 --> 01:08:03,720 Fetta fie this first and back it into the index or, or make that 1053 01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:07,200 a later part of the feticide index. And I'm saying it's like 1054 01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:12,810 if, if this this is I'm seeing it here. It's on activity pub. 1055 01:08:13,530 --> 01:08:17,040 Right now. I just I did thrash and it shows me thrash metal 1056 01:08:17,070 --> 01:08:21,960 Thrasher thrash Thursday. These are categories that I can use, I 1057 01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:26,580 can use them bait and has little graph tells me how many people 1058 01:08:26,580 --> 01:08:30,060 use it in the last graph tells me how many people use it in the 1059 01:08:30,060 --> 01:08:34,140 last two days. I mean, this is exciting. So is this something 1060 01:08:34,140 --> 01:08:36,690 that we can then reverse into the index? 1061 01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:39,900 Dave Jones: Do you know I mean, possibly, yeah, yeah, no, I 1062 01:08:39,900 --> 01:08:41,670 don't know where you're going. So now we're 1063 01:08:41,670 --> 01:08:43,470 Adam Curry: going now we're going to directions, we want to 1064 01:08:43,470 --> 01:08:47,010 take the index and put it into activity pub. And we want to 1065 01:08:47,190 --> 01:08:51,510 take the activity pub existing categories, ie hashtags, we just 1066 01:08:51,510 --> 01:08:54,780 call it what they are. And we can reverse engineer those back 1067 01:08:54,780 --> 01:09:00,510 in. Or, in fact, if someone tags, their song podcasts, or 1068 01:09:00,510 --> 01:09:05,970 audio book, whatever it is, with a certain type of hashtag, that 1069 01:09:05,970 --> 01:09:09,840 now fortifies into the fediverse through the bridge, take it to 1070 01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:10,530 the bridge 1071 01:09:16,140 --> 01:09:19,050 Dave Jones: is we're getting to spread out here. This this is a 1072 01:09:19,050 --> 01:09:24,360 Fanta like the problem that we're running into now is we're 1073 01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,990 we're thinking about way too many things at once. But it's 1074 01:09:27,990 --> 01:09:32,490 all the same thing. It is all the same thing, but they all 1075 01:09:32,490 --> 01:09:37,680 have different credit different implementations, you know, so, 1076 01:09:37,950 --> 01:09:42,690 but you like a person a person, a person identity is one thing. 1077 01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,620 A channel identity is another thing a freeform category data 1078 01:09:47,070 --> 01:09:51,210 list is another thing. They they all have functionally different 1079 01:09:52,350 --> 01:09:59,970 intents for us given the distribution mechanisms. So as 1080 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,960 Think? I think we're right. And I think what we're doing right 1081 01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:07,440 now is defining the problem as defining the domain space, if 1082 01:10:07,440 --> 01:10:11,250 you want to call it that, where we say, okay, these types of 1083 01:10:11,250 --> 01:10:15,900 categories are going to need lookups. Yeah, that's an 1084 01:10:15,900 --> 01:10:18,240 important conclusion to come to. 1085 01:10:18,390 --> 01:10:20,880 Adam Curry: Right. And we just, we just discussed the person 1086 01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:26,820 good being a web finger lookup, that's, that's activity plug in 1087 01:10:26,820 --> 01:10:27,630 that what we did, 1088 01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,260 Dave Jones: yeah, but I'm just, it's like, I'm just a teenager 1089 01:10:31,260 --> 01:10:33,180 at web finger. 1090 01:10:33,690 --> 01:10:36,720 Adam Curry: Believe me, when I had to go to Reebok and say, 1091 01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:40,830 Hey, you can finger my account to see what, what my profile is. 1092 01:10:40,830 --> 01:10:45,060 They were like, what? From my dot plan from my dot plan file? 1093 01:10:45,090 --> 01:10:49,770 Oh, I remember all this. I'm old. But But what, here's what 1094 01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:54,510 overall, here's what I find exciting. So while we're talking 1095 01:10:54,510 --> 01:10:57,870 about fortifying the index, there's all this stuff that 1096 01:10:57,870 --> 01:11:01,890 Yeah, we could create an API endpoint and do all this stuff 1097 01:11:01,890 --> 01:11:05,640 and create good lookups and create good person looks up and 1098 01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:10,800 create category lookups. Meanwhile, it's all here. And 1099 01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,740 you've created that you've created a rudimentary bridge, 1100 01:11:13,740 --> 01:11:18,540 it's more like a rope bridge, that you know that one person at 1101 01:11:18,540 --> 01:11:23,550 a time over the bridge. But this connection, I think, is really 1102 01:11:23,550 --> 01:11:28,530 critical. So activity POV has critical mass. It just does. It 1103 01:11:28,530 --> 01:11:33,060 does. It has a critical mass is beautiful, it works. It's almost 1104 01:11:33,060 --> 01:11:37,170 a problem looking for us. In fact, it's almost like this, 1105 01:11:37,170 --> 01:11:40,680 like noster in a way only is much further down the road. The 1106 01:11:41,070 --> 01:11:47,850 the the solution has created a social network. But really the 1107 01:11:47,850 --> 01:11:51,480 problem is this. We have all these problems that we need them 1108 01:11:51,480 --> 01:11:54,600 for edifying, this, this centralized service. And all 1109 01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:56,910 these beautiful things have been created here, which is 1110 01:11:57,120 --> 01:12:02,220 outstanding for what we're looking to solve. Does that make 1111 01:12:02,220 --> 01:12:02,700 sense? 1112 01:12:03,450 --> 01:12:09,300 Dave Jones: Yes. So yes, go ahead. Yeah. Well, go the nasty, 1113 01:12:09,330 --> 01:12:15,630 nasty Eurasia video of Alex Gleason's talk. Now he's, he's 1114 01:12:16,410 --> 01:12:23,490 the guy that created so box activity pub server client. He, 1115 01:12:23,910 --> 01:12:27,360 he gave a talk in Australia, because he's now funded by some 1116 01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:32,520 Noster, you know, thing, whatever. And so he's all on 1117 01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:36,090 that bandwagon. But he does a good talk to listen to, because 1118 01:12:36,090 --> 01:12:41,940 he talks about, about a lot of these interrupts. And he, he 1119 01:12:41,940 --> 01:12:46,710 shows a graph on there. And it's like, you know, the number of 1120 01:12:46,710 --> 01:12:50,760 people that are on these different services. Twitter is 1121 01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:56,010 like, you know, a bazillion people. Activity pub, you know, 1122 01:12:56,040 --> 01:13:01,980 is is a million, BM millions of people. And then noster is like, 1123 01:13:02,010 --> 01:13:03,750 one, you know, a couple of dudes. 1124 01:13:05,370 --> 01:13:07,740 Adam Curry: A couple of dudes in a Bitcoin. Yeah. 1125 01:13:09,030 --> 01:13:12,210 Dave Jones: And so, like, the graph that he showed really made 1126 01:13:12,210 --> 01:13:15,030 it clear that you're you're right, the critical mass of 1127 01:13:15,030 --> 01:13:19,860 activity activity Pub is you can't overlook that. 1128 01:13:20,310 --> 01:13:23,880 Adam Curry: No, so easily the ROI. I mean, for five bucks a 1129 01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:28,440 month, you deploy your own Mastodon instance, which, by 1130 01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:31,050 definition is an activity pub node. 1131 01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:36,150 Dave Jones: Yeah, and that, like, let's jump back to this to 1132 01:13:36,150 --> 01:13:41,640 the AP dot podcast index.org. That, you know, that is going to 1133 01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:46,440 be an open source thing that anybody can run once. And so 1134 01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:51,810 then we can have lots of people running nodes in front of 1135 01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:59,760 running a P nodes in front of in front of the index. until such a 1136 01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:07,050 time when the index itself can be distributed. Then those nodes 1137 01:14:07,050 --> 01:14:13,230 become district they become more like IPFS gateways, right. It's 1138 01:14:13,260 --> 01:14:16,800 so that that is the ultimate goal. I mean, that's like, you 1139 01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:19,410 know, we started off talking that at the beginning of the 1140 01:14:19,410 --> 01:14:22,980 show, talking about how long this was going to take years. 1141 01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:23,640 It'll 1142 01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:25,530 Adam Curry: take a while. Yeah, I'll take a while. Yeah, that's 1143 01:14:25,530 --> 01:14:29,640 okay. Because yours because we got music to go with our work. 1144 01:14:32,190 --> 01:14:35,190 It's no problem. I just have Benny over here, play the piano 1145 01:14:35,190 --> 01:14:43,770 and we'll work on that feta phi and Vidya 20. Slit Benny 20 will 1146 01:14:43,770 --> 01:14:52,440 give you some weed bag. Me done back Benny. Taco Well, this is 1147 01:14:52,440 --> 01:14:56,850 good. So I'm excited by this because this is it's like we 1148 01:14:56,850 --> 01:15:00,210 naturally bumping up against this problem. You know, Because 1149 01:15:00,210 --> 01:15:03,540 the last thing we want, I know, I know you, you know me, we've 1150 01:15:03,540 --> 01:15:10,230 been friends for forces now. 13 years for 10. Yeah. Like we 1151 01:15:10,230 --> 01:15:13,230 don't want to, we don't want to actually do work. We're not 1152 01:15:15,030 --> 01:15:17,970 We're not interested in running a company or anything like that 1153 01:15:18,030 --> 01:15:21,090 this is all bad. We don't want that. We just want to make 1154 01:15:21,090 --> 01:15:25,140 things better for the world than for ourselves, quite honestly. 1155 01:15:26,190 --> 01:15:29,820 And so this is a natural thing that we're that we're that 1156 01:15:29,820 --> 01:15:33,780 we're, that we're hitting here. And it's a confluence of 1157 01:15:33,810 --> 01:15:37,620 streams, it really is. The whole activity pub, which has been in 1158 01:15:37,620 --> 01:15:42,060 our life for a long time is, is naturally flowing into all of 1159 01:15:42,060 --> 01:15:45,570 these problems, which means podcasting. 2.0 is also 1160 01:15:45,570 --> 01:15:49,200 maturing, these are very mature problems to have, we're talking 1161 01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:54,360 about recording fingerprints, and we're talking about licenses 1162 01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:58,500 and an identification of ownership. These are really 1163 01:15:58,500 --> 01:16:02,820 great things to have as problems, and to be able, and at 1164 01:16:02,820 --> 01:16:06,810 the same time to want to move that out to something that is 1165 01:16:06,810 --> 01:16:10,410 more distributed than it then podcasting already is, man, 1166 01:16:10,410 --> 01:16:14,190 that's exciting to me this like, Yeah, I'm good for another five 1167 01:16:14,190 --> 01:16:16,680 years, whatever it takes this this is great. 1168 01:16:17,580 --> 01:16:20,100 Dave Jones: Yeah, we found out this week that we had to file 1169 01:16:20,100 --> 01:16:25,320 some sort of tax thing and what the hell we were. You were like, 1170 01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:27,360 Please tell me your brother in law could do this. We don't want 1171 01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:32,700 to do like, begging my brother in law to do that. Like, this is 1172 01:16:32,700 --> 01:16:33,750 business crap. 1173 01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:37,020 Adam Curry: I love that he built us right away for 200 bucks. I'm 1174 01:16:37,020 --> 01:16:39,180 like, Thanks, Greg. I'm good, man. Thank you. You should have 1175 01:16:39,180 --> 01:16:43,050 built 300. Egypt yourself, man. We were so happy. 1176 01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:44,730 Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Yeah. 1177 01:16:46,470 --> 01:16:49,050 Adam Curry: What is this? This tax you talk of this? 1178 01:16:51,930 --> 01:16:55,560 Dave Jones: Like this? Yeah. Anything to avoid real you know, 1179 01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,560 real business. He crap is good in my bag. 1180 01:16:58,830 --> 01:17:00,420 Adam Curry: I mean, you know, cotton gin, we don't have 1181 01:17:00,420 --> 01:17:04,350 payroll, there's no payroll. There was, what's it called? 1182 01:17:05,250 --> 01:17:08,040 Like, operating? What is it called? What is that particular 1183 01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:13,560 tax called? It's like a franchise to franchise tax. We 1184 01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,530 don't owe anything. We still have to file you don't have to 1185 01:17:16,530 --> 01:17:17,010 file. 1186 01:17:17,670 --> 01:17:19,980 Dave Jones: Yeah, there's no, there's no payroll. Nobody gets 1187 01:17:19,980 --> 01:17:21,480 paid. No. You 1188 01:17:21,480 --> 01:17:24,060 Adam Curry: don't need franchise tax. And this is a million bucks 1189 01:17:24,060 --> 01:17:27,240 a year or something like okay, well, we still got a file. You 1190 01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:28,920 Dave Jones: say you to file and say, Hey, we don't have any 1191 01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:32,430 notes. We get a pain. You got to pay an accountant $200 To file 1192 01:17:32,430 --> 01:17:35,610 something that says you don't owe anything is the most 1193 01:17:35,610 --> 01:17:36,540 American thing. 1194 01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:40,260 Adam Curry: America. That's right, baby America taxes. 1195 01:17:42,030 --> 01:17:44,760 Dave Jones: In Alabama, they call it the business privilege 1196 01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:48,690 tax. It's got the same thing. The privilege of doing business 1197 01:17:48,690 --> 01:17:48,810 in 1198 01:17:48,810 --> 01:17:51,930 Adam Curry: Alabama. Exactly. Exactly. Well, we're happy to be 1199 01:17:51,930 --> 01:17:58,170 doing business in Texas. Yes. But yeah, that's exactly. Right. 1200 01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:00,360 It's so right. Amen. We 1201 01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:03,510 Dave Jones: will solve these problems. But I liked the way 1202 01:18:03,510 --> 01:18:03,630 it's 1203 01:18:03,630 --> 01:18:06,180 Adam Curry: going. I like this bridge. The bridge is an 1204 01:18:06,180 --> 01:18:08,970 important piece. It feels good. It really does. It feels like 1205 01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:14,730 Ah, okay, so now we can we reverse engineer these tags? 1206 01:18:15,780 --> 01:18:19,050 backwards, you know, or is when we just think about it for a 1207 01:18:19,050 --> 01:18:25,260 second. So in essence, you want to if you're if you're building 1208 01:18:25,260 --> 01:18:30,180 your RSS feed, so it's going to be a weird crossover to how this 1209 01:18:30,180 --> 01:18:33,930 works. But if you have your categories, your lookup should 1210 01:18:33,930 --> 01:18:37,380 almost should be your your most it should be your local activity 1211 01:18:37,380 --> 01:18:43,500 pub. You know, so Ivan so I think so, for instance, 1212 01:18:43,500 --> 01:18:46,980 sovereign feeds, which I which I use, I will be logged in. And 1213 01:18:46,980 --> 01:18:51,480 maybe instead of a my lb login, which I think it is now I'm 1214 01:18:51,480 --> 01:18:55,140 logged in through my activity pub, and I know it's not but 1215 01:18:55,140 --> 01:18:57,900 anyway, I'm logged in through my activity pub. And that 1216 01:18:57,930 --> 01:19:01,650 identifies me, that automatically goes into my feed 1217 01:19:01,650 --> 01:19:07,770 and then when I'm doing tags for my podcast, it's doing activity 1218 01:19:07,770 --> 01:19:13,200 pub lookups on those on those hashtags. And that's what goes 1219 01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:15,840 into the feed my source of truth. Am I saying that right? 1220 01:19:16,590 --> 01:19:16,830 Yeah, 1221 01:19:16,830 --> 01:19:20,490 Dave Jones: can see. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cuz cuz you, you just need 1222 01:19:20,490 --> 01:19:26,640 a list somewhere and like that. The list can come. They'll see 1223 01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:29,850 the list has to live somewhere. But it already lives can 1224 01:19:29,850 --> 01:19:32,220 originate somewhere as well. That's 1225 01:19:32,220 --> 01:19:34,890 Adam Curry: my point. It lives though. It lives so hashtag 1226 01:19:34,890 --> 01:19:39,270 right. See if I do bull crap. Is that a hashtag? Let me say there 1227 01:19:39,270 --> 01:19:42,540 is. No one's used it in the past few days where it's a hashtag. 1228 01:19:43,020 --> 01:19:45,360 Dave Jones: As your graph down you gotta Yeah, hockey stick 1229 01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:46,350 negative hockey stick. 1230 01:19:46,620 --> 01:19:49,290 Adam Curry: Well, bull bull bullshit bullet bullet with an 1231 01:19:49,290 --> 01:19:55,770 ITT I mean, see all I mean, there's a huge list. This lookup 1232 01:19:55,770 --> 01:19:56,640 is instant. 1233 01:19:57,780 --> 01:20:01,230 Dave Jones: All right, here we go. So In the activity pub 1234 01:20:01,230 --> 01:20:06,660 bridge, the podcast and index activity pub bridge can take on 1235 01:20:06,660 --> 01:20:11,280 the elite, here's the circle of life here so you you go on your 1236 01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:15,420 your post about post an episode, we can aggregate the hashtags 1237 01:20:15,420 --> 01:20:21,690 that are being used to then push a list did provide a list you 1238 01:20:21,690 --> 01:20:26,760 pick one then it goes into your episode as the genre or whatever 1239 01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:31,080 we're gonna say this category whatever category whatever then 1240 01:20:31,410 --> 01:20:35,880 it gets posted as a as an episode. The index picks it up 1241 01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:38,550 and posts it right back to activity pub posted right back 1242 01:20:38,550 --> 01:20:41,730 to activity pub now it's feeding back to the system and now it 1243 01:20:41,730 --> 01:20:46,320 goes back into the list and then becomes re yes, you're one more 1244 01:20:46,350 --> 01:20:46,920 your view of 1245 01:20:47,820 --> 01:20:50,340 Adam Curry: the graph is up the graph is up and to the right 1246 01:20:54,690 --> 01:20:58,710 yes, thrash metal Yes, exactly. Exactly. So the bridge feeds 1247 01:20:58,740 --> 01:21:02,220 back into the system. This is cool. 1248 01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:06,660 Dave Jones: And wouldn't that be the same with activity with 1249 01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:10,020 actor as identifiers 1250 01:21:10,020 --> 01:21:12,870 Adam Curry: do exactly same thing look it up right there. 1251 01:21:13,530 --> 01:21:16,320 Dave Jones: It feeds it feeds back into the system and then 1252 01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:21,450 and then we Trent we can translate to the bridge we can 1253 01:21:21,450 --> 01:21:26,760 translate the activity the actor URL as the identifier back into 1254 01:21:27,270 --> 01:21:33,330 the back into the the actor ID with the with the episode. Yes, 1255 01:21:33,390 --> 01:21:36,360 yes. So now it's attributed to this person and 1256 01:21:36,390 --> 01:21:39,960 Adam Curry: hit the pod ping how do we how do we respond to this? 1257 01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:46,170 Come on. Come on. Come on. It's gotta be in there. I don't know 1258 01:21:46,170 --> 01:21:51,480 brain brain. I'm excited by this. This. I think this is a 1259 01:21:51,570 --> 01:21:54,930 really I hope Alex gates likes it. Is he is he does he like 1260 01:21:54,930 --> 01:21:57,630 activity pub. Oh, yeah. Sure. 1261 01:21:57,630 --> 01:22:02,340 Dave Jones: He runs his own server that little. That's, 1262 01:22:02,490 --> 01:22:06,450 that's I've been testing against his activity pub. So bucks 1263 01:22:06,450 --> 01:22:10,350 instance, per week does validate because I wanted to validate 1264 01:22:10,350 --> 01:22:14,280 against something that was not Mastodon so that I can make sure 1265 01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:17,490 that we're trying to speak as generic activitypub as possible. 1266 01:22:17,550 --> 01:22:22,350 Yes. And so I was I was vowed I was building it to work on 1267 01:22:22,380 --> 01:22:25,290 against his instance. Nice. Is it then I'm like, then I'll 1268 01:22:25,290 --> 01:22:27,630 bring it over to Mastodon and see if it works there. 1269 01:22:29,100 --> 01:22:31,530 Adam Curry: Yeah, I think there's this there's something 1270 01:22:31,530 --> 01:22:34,260 here, Dave, this is this is I think this is a breakthrough. 1271 01:22:34,260 --> 01:22:36,570 I'm not quite sure why I feel that way. But there's a 1272 01:22:36,570 --> 01:22:38,790 breakthrough going on here. It 1273 01:22:38,940 --> 01:22:41,070 Dave Jones: it just feels important. For some reason. I 1274 01:22:41,070 --> 01:22:44,880 think it's because you like you said I think activity Pub has 1275 01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:49,110 critical mass, you know who spotted this? Very early on? Was 1276 01:22:49,110 --> 01:22:53,130 this sort of like this idea of integrating podcasting in with 1277 01:22:53,130 --> 01:22:57,120 activity? pub was Benjamin Bellamy. Yes, because yeah, I 1278 01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:59,580 suppose does that Right? Exactly. 1279 01:22:59,580 --> 01:23:01,710 Adam Curry: You're so right. He's probably jumped out and 1280 01:23:01,710 --> 01:23:06,090 sees probably jumping up and down going. I told you this was 1281 01:23:06,090 --> 01:23:10,920 riots. You stupid Americans. I knew it already. Socialism. 1282 01:23:11,100 --> 01:23:16,590 Dave Jones: Yes. This is this is. This is a he spotted it. And 1283 01:23:16,590 --> 01:23:22,290 I didn't see it at the time. And, and I think I think he's, I 1284 01:23:22,290 --> 01:23:26,130 think you have the right idea. Absolutely. Because activity 1285 01:23:26,130 --> 01:23:30,300 activity, pub and RSS are sort of like, you know, two 1286 01:23:30,300 --> 01:23:33,720 Adam Curry: sides of the same coin. Yeah, they're like, Dan 1287 01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:40,320 says 40 posts. Wow. So dynamite. 1288 01:23:41,640 --> 01:23:44,640 Dave Jones: But I do have a do still have a couple of you have 1289 01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:50,940 a couple of issues. In that we need to figure out that okay. 1290 01:23:51,690 --> 01:23:52,920 Adam Curry: Clearly something. 1291 01:23:56,370 --> 01:24:01,500 Dave Jones: How to handle the key pairs. So activitypub needs 1292 01:24:02,100 --> 01:24:07,950 assigning keys. And typically they are per user. So you know, 1293 01:24:07,950 --> 01:24:10,710 you you have a private public private key pair. Now what 1294 01:24:10,710 --> 01:24:12,840 Adam Curry: do you need these? What do you need these for? My 1295 01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:15,300 help me out? What do you need? Why do we need keys? 1296 01:24:16,050 --> 01:24:21,420 Dave Jones: So that each each user account has a public 1297 01:24:21,420 --> 01:24:26,520 private key pair that they use to sign the requests to other 1298 01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:31,020 activity pub servers when doing transactions. So if I if I go 1299 01:24:31,020 --> 01:24:37,500 and subscribe, excuse me, follow you on your server, I have to 1300 01:24:37,500 --> 01:24:40,530 sign it with my key pair to prove that is me actually doing 1301 01:24:40,530 --> 01:24:44,370 it. Right. And so there has there has to be a signing thing. 1302 01:24:45,690 --> 01:24:49,500 You know, I don't know how to handle these keys necessarily. 1303 01:24:50,820 --> 01:24:55,110 Should there just be one key for the whole server that everybody 1304 01:24:55,200 --> 01:25:00,960 uses? When I say everybody I mean every podcast asked, since 1305 01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:04,500 it's really since they're really all essentially bought accounts 1306 01:25:04,500 --> 01:25:12,060 anyway. Or should it be that each one, as soon as it's the 1307 01:25:12,060 --> 01:25:16,020 first time it's searched for a public key pair is created, 1308 01:25:16,290 --> 01:25:20,550 that's creating a key pair is a is a mathematically is 1309 01:25:20,550 --> 01:25:24,990 mathematically hard. So it's a little bit of a delay when that 1310 01:25:24,990 --> 01:25:28,710 happens, so I don't know I need advice on that, too. Can 1311 01:25:28,710 --> 01:25:32,010 Adam Curry: you run that by me one more time? The key the key 1312 01:25:32,010 --> 01:25:35,250 generation key pair was just run it by me one more time. Let me 1313 01:25:35,250 --> 01:25:37,020 see if I can grok this. Oh, I said 1314 01:25:37,740 --> 01:25:42,840 Dave Jones: it. Oh, can you give me the so the key pair, it's 1315 01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:45,720 pretty much just like PGP. You know, you have a public key and 1316 01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:50,040 a private key. The private key, you're gonna sign your message 1317 01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:54,420 to other when you send. So club brand, you're in the future, 1318 01:25:54,420 --> 01:25:57,240 you'll be you know, you subscribe a club random Yeah. 1319 01:25:58,110 --> 01:26:02,130 Then, when the club random gets a new episode, the AP dot 1320 01:26:02,130 --> 01:26:08,160 podcast index.org is going to send an event to your inbox. Or 1321 01:26:08,190 --> 01:26:11,700 it really to the shared inbox on your server, right saying, 1322 01:26:11,910 --> 01:26:16,800 saying, Here's a new post, right? That that message to your 1323 01:26:16,830 --> 01:26:22,170 shared inbox is going to have to be signed by his by, by his 1324 01:26:22,170 --> 01:26:26,400 accounts public, excuse me, private key, so that you can 1325 01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:30,450 then validate it using the public key that is present, is 1326 01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:30,570 what 1327 01:26:30,570 --> 01:26:33,210 Adam Curry: you're saying? Actor proof. So you're saying, Do we 1328 01:26:33,210 --> 01:26:38,520 have the index just has one, one key that signs everything? Now, 1329 01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:42,120 you can't do that? Has to be individual keys, doesn't it? You 1330 01:26:42,120 --> 01:26:44,880 Dave Jones: could there's no rule that says you can't. And 1331 01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:47,400 that's what I'm wondering is this, if there should just be 1332 01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:51,480 one public private key pair? On the index that signs everything 1333 01:26:51,480 --> 01:26:55,890 for every one of these podcast accounts? Does that? Or if they 1334 01:26:55,890 --> 01:26:56,970 should all be separate? 1335 01:26:57,750 --> 01:27:01,560 Adam Curry: Doesn't that come into the follow? Bit? Isn't that 1336 01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:08,280 unique to the follow? Me I don't know. I'm just guessing. 1337 01:27:08,970 --> 01:27:12,930 Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't know. I am open to advice from the 1338 01:27:12,930 --> 01:27:13,410 activity. 1339 01:27:13,710 --> 01:27:16,770 Adam Curry: I mean, quite honestly, it Is it crazy for me 1340 01:27:16,770 --> 01:27:21,810 to think that in the future podcast apps when you follow 1341 01:27:21,870 --> 01:27:26,910 slash subscribe to a podcast, that that would actually be an 1342 01:27:26,910 --> 01:27:28,230 activity pub event. 1343 01:27:31,410 --> 01:27:32,490 Dave Jones: Are you talking about when you actually 1344 01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:34,440 subscribe to the feed? Yes. 1345 01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:37,830 Adam Curry: Well, no one where it says very few podcast apps 1346 01:27:38,070 --> 01:27:43,020 when you subscribe to the feed. Haha, man, I'm my brain is 1347 01:27:43,020 --> 01:27:51,450 hurting right now. Yeah, okay. So if you take activity pub as 1348 01:27:51,450 --> 01:27:57,660 the subscribe pubs Pub Sub mechanism, does that not solve a 1349 01:27:57,660 --> 01:28:02,070 lot of back end stuff that individual apps are doing with 1350 01:28:02,070 --> 01:28:05,970 their own database as their own user database? Who's following 1351 01:28:05,970 --> 01:28:09,780 what et cetera, et cetera? Right? Does that not replace 1352 01:28:09,780 --> 01:28:13,080 that in a way? Um, so that in future actually, you'll 1353 01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:16,620 subscribe to a podcast you will subscribe to your follow up lets 1354 01:28:16,620 --> 01:28:21,330 us follow. You will follow a podcast be in your app or on the 1355 01:28:21,330 --> 01:28:27,960 mastodon server or wherever you get your mastodons and, and you 1356 01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:31,200 literally you could sign into every single podcast app with 1357 01:28:31,200 --> 01:28:37,830 your Mastodon slash activity pub. Key credentials. Bright. 1358 01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:43,020 Wow, think about how Trent that that just obliterated OPML Yeah, 1359 01:28:43,050 --> 01:28:45,780 Dave Jones: pretty much yeah. Because yeah, because you've 1360 01:28:45,810 --> 01:28:48,000 there's all your stuff right there will 1361 01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:52,380 Adam Curry: be serious. Whoa. That 1362 01:28:52,380 --> 01:28:54,480 Dave Jones: will conjunct said all your shows would sink to 1363 01:28:54,480 --> 01:28:55,890 Yeah, you 1364 01:28:55,890 --> 01:28:59,340 Adam Curry: could take your followers with you, man. It 1365 01:28:59,340 --> 01:29:01,320 brings in cross app comments. 1366 01:29:01,980 --> 01:29:05,190 Dave Jones: Well see that's very interesting. Obviously cross out 1367 01:29:05,190 --> 01:29:07,560 comments is is is baked 1368 01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:10,920 Adam Curry: in Yeah. Because 1369 01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:14,460 Dave Jones: that's being you know, as like I said when you 1370 01:29:14,700 --> 01:29:20,370 when you have a list of posts, the outbox is the list of posts 1371 01:29:22,020 --> 01:29:27,000 list of episodes and the each episode is just is also has the 1372 01:29:27,090 --> 01:29:32,250 the social interact tag data in it. Okay, devil's advocate comes 1373 01:29:32,250 --> 01:29:36,240 along with it devil's advocate, the devil's advocate. Yeah. 1374 01:29:40,500 --> 01:29:43,530 Adam Curry: What reasons would podcast apps have to not want to 1375 01:29:43,530 --> 01:29:44,160 do this? 1376 01:29:47,340 --> 01:29:49,410 Dave Jones: You do the double negative. I'm confused. 1377 01:29:50,460 --> 01:29:54,450 Adam Curry: Okay, so we so we basically are coming up with a 1378 01:29:54,450 --> 01:29:58,710 system here. Oh, man, you could almost publish from your podcast 1379 01:29:58,710 --> 01:30:02,640 app. Oh, my brain hurts to like 1380 01:30:04,440 --> 01:30:05,460 Dave Jones: 930. 1381 01:30:07,770 --> 01:30:09,870 Adam Curry: Maybe we're going too far. Maybe we're going to, 1382 01:30:10,110 --> 01:30:15,360 Dave Jones: we need a better way to back it up. I see where 1383 01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:20,700 you're going, though, and I like it. It's it's very far down the 1384 01:30:20,700 --> 01:30:24,960 road, though, as I say, but I see where you're going. Yeah, I 1385 01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:27,570 still don't know why follow the Follow button doesn't do 1386 01:30:27,570 --> 01:30:32,520 anything on Mastodon with trend, why was it not sending me? 1387 01:30:32,550 --> 01:30:34,380 Adam Curry: Well, that's just some kind of handshake that's 1388 01:30:34,380 --> 01:30:36,240 not completing that we'll figure that out. 1389 01:30:38,010 --> 01:30:41,340 Dave Jones: I'm not seeing a hit. Not seeing the hit on the 1390 01:30:41,370 --> 01:30:48,090 on the on on the AP server. But and then and then status IDs. So 1391 01:30:48,180 --> 01:30:52,110 the unit statuses like episode statuses are episodes. 1392 01:30:53,310 --> 01:30:55,260 Adam Curry: Yeah, this is Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but 1393 01:30:55,260 --> 01:30:58,560 Well, it's it shows up as a post but an activity problem. Sure. 1394 01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:00,120 It's called status. Yeah, 1395 01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:01,980 Dave Jones: it's called a post. It's called us. Yes. Yeah. 1396 01:31:01,980 --> 01:31:03,180 Adam Curry: Just to make it simple. 1397 01:31:04,620 --> 01:31:09,120 Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Let's go stat, the insert these every 1398 01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:13,770 one of these things has an ID. And I'm not sure where you would 1399 01:31:13,770 --> 01:31:17,640 think that the Episode Episode ID within podcast index would 1400 01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:20,340 make a perfect status, because it's just a big lump on number. 1401 01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:24,750 But then again, it's tying it to that to that to the index, which 1402 01:31:24,990 --> 01:31:28,200 doesn't seem right, it seems like it should be tied to like 1403 01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:28,800 the GU ID, 1404 01:31:28,980 --> 01:31:31,980 Adam Curry: maybe maybe if we just we stick to the publishing 1405 01:31:31,980 --> 01:31:35,370 side first, just to make it simple. To the publishing side 1406 01:31:35,370 --> 01:31:39,210 is where the biggest problems are right now. So the publishing 1407 01:31:39,210 --> 01:31:43,590 side, we have what is a GUID? How do we look up goods? And 1408 01:31:43,590 --> 01:31:47,340 that's it as its publishing. It's also of course, it's also 1409 01:31:47,430 --> 01:31:51,870 the receive side, but how do we look up goods? Okay, activity 1410 01:31:51,870 --> 01:31:56,610 Pub has a has a way to do that, as a way to register goods as a 1411 01:31:56,610 --> 01:32:00,840 way to authenticate goods, which can be people can be all kinds 1412 01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:05,010 of things. How do we do categories? We have a lookup 1413 01:32:05,010 --> 01:32:10,200 service built right into it, which requires apps, I think, on 1414 01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:16,050 the back end. So perhaps it's that the apps would have to have 1415 01:32:16,050 --> 01:32:19,800 a way to talk to their own activity pub. This is that what 1416 01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:27,180 we're down to now. hosting companies creation tools, will 1417 01:32:27,180 --> 01:32:30,870 need access to an activity problem now, 1418 01:32:31,230 --> 01:32:35,100 Dave Jones: not initially. I mean, initially, we we can just 1419 01:32:35,220 --> 01:32:40,980 Britt, you know, we can be the bridge. Okay. It, I think what's 1420 01:32:40,980 --> 01:32:44,520 going to happen is this, this code, once we get it to a work 1421 01:32:44,580 --> 01:32:49,140 working state where it's doing a lot of the things that we want 1422 01:32:49,140 --> 01:32:56,100 it to, and it's reliable, then it's open. And I think at that 1423 01:32:56,100 --> 01:33:01,620 point, there will it'll be easy for people to look at it, see 1424 01:33:01,620 --> 01:33:05,490 what it's doing. And because one of the goals that I have with 1425 01:33:05,490 --> 01:33:12,480 this code is in the next phase of this is add the database, 1426 01:33:12,990 --> 01:33:17,520 clean it up, make it open, hope I'm hoping by the end, but by 1427 01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:21,990 this, the end of this week, this coming week, the repo will be 1428 01:33:21,990 --> 01:33:25,620 open and everybody can just see it. At that point, I feel like 1429 01:33:27,630 --> 01:33:30,900 more eyeballs on it will be able to show we'll be able to sort of 1430 01:33:30,900 --> 01:33:35,970 flesh out some of these things. And say, here's what these days 1431 01:33:35,970 --> 01:33:37,800 should look like, here's what this should be, here's what this 1432 01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:40,800 should be. We can all just sort of like, collaborate on this. 1433 01:33:43,020 --> 01:33:49,680 But you know, and remember, ultimately, what's the goal 1434 01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:52,890 here, like we talked about a couple episodes ago is the 1435 01:33:52,890 --> 01:33:59,790 podcast. The bridge is going to make it where you could follow a 1436 01:33:59,790 --> 01:34:05,730 podcast on an activity pub timeline. And then when you see 1437 01:34:05,820 --> 01:34:10,650 when that post comes through, you get links to all the 1438 01:34:10,650 --> 01:34:15,090 different apps on it. So you have you and I have we have the 1439 01:34:15,090 --> 01:34:17,760 links, links to all the different podcasts. Right 1440 01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:19,710 Adam Curry: you just click on that link click boom, it opens 1441 01:34:19,710 --> 01:34:21,480 up the the appropriate app. 1442 01:34:22,170 --> 01:34:25,710 Dave Jones: Yeah, you're in pot. You're in pod. You're in your 1443 01:34:25,710 --> 01:34:30,360 Mastodon client. The post comes through, you just you know, you 1444 01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:35,100 say okay, I'm on pod verse or I'm on podcasts guru or pod fans 1445 01:34:35,100 --> 01:34:38,940 or whatever and you just tap it fountain and it kicks you over 1446 01:34:38,940 --> 01:34:42,270 to your to your app like it's not meant to be a destination is 1447 01:34:42,270 --> 01:34:44,160 meant to be a bridge, 1448 01:34:44,250 --> 01:34:47,250 Adam Curry: a bridge literally. Just to address Eric PPS COMM 1449 01:34:47,250 --> 01:34:50,340 And he says Who needs RSS at that point episodes are posted? 1450 01:34:50,340 --> 01:34:54,810 No, because we know that activity Pub is not not a great 1451 01:34:54,810 --> 01:35:00,480 system for high volume polling and high volume follows So you 1452 01:35:00,480 --> 01:35:03,060 want to just general want to just reiterate why that is? 1453 01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:07,620 Because of the subscription? overhead? 1454 01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:12,450 Dave Jones: Yes. The way that activity pub works, you know, is 1455 01:35:12,450 --> 01:35:18,870 it posts? It's a push, it's a push based system is relying on 1456 01:35:19,890 --> 01:35:22,740 on the server that creates the content to let you know that the 1457 01:35:22,740 --> 01:35:27,330 content is there. And that that's, that's okay. That's 1458 01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:31,380 actually that's efficient, in the sense that you don't have to 1459 01:35:31,380 --> 01:35:37,470 poll is inefficient. In that you can, the receiver can get 1460 01:35:37,470 --> 01:35:42,600 swamped. Yeah. Easily. And this this is what we see this all the 1461 01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:46,140 time with Mastodon servers where all of a sudden one famous 1462 01:35:46,140 --> 01:35:49,170 person joins and they have 10 million followers, and then 1463 01:35:49,170 --> 01:35:52,800 every now they're getting it in their server. Could you just 1464 01:35:52,800 --> 01:36:00,390 follow crawl? Yeah, yeah. So I think that that mean, this is 1465 01:36:00,390 --> 01:36:04,620 just this just bridges RSS bridges back to what RSS is 1466 01:36:04,620 --> 01:36:08,760 doing natively. We don't want to make the same mistake that Nasir 1467 01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:12,780 made. Yeah, we're exactly replace RSS, which is x DOM. 1468 01:36:12,810 --> 01:36:15,660 Yeah. So we're not we don't want to make that mistake. We're this 1469 01:36:15,660 --> 01:36:22,050 is basically a way to bridge RSS over into activity pub. In a way 1470 01:36:22,050 --> 01:36:25,620 that makes sense. But the source of truth is and always will 1471 01:36:25,620 --> 01:36:27,600 remain the RSS feed. Yes. 1472 01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:31,830 Adam Curry: I'm just looking at the podcast index dot social, 1473 01:36:31,830 --> 01:36:36,960 the sidekick Syo is killing it. Oh, man. If you see how many 1474 01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:42,090 failed there are over 2 million CI Oh, yeah, that's in one month 1475 01:36:42,090 --> 01:36:45,060 time and failed 2 million, 2 million fails. 1476 01:36:45,450 --> 01:36:48,360 Dave Jones: Sidekick for people that don't know is the task 1477 01:36:48,360 --> 01:36:52,440 server that runs on with Ruby on Rails that takes care of sending 1478 01:36:52,440 --> 01:36:56,550 all that into Mastodon in the mastodon world decide cake 1479 01:36:56,550 --> 01:37:02,370 process is sending all those outbox rules, excuse me sending 1480 01:37:02,370 --> 01:37:04,380 all those inbox pushes. Yeah, it's 1481 01:37:04,380 --> 01:37:06,570 Adam Curry: insane out everywhere. It's insane. It 1482 01:37:06,570 --> 01:37:07,260 really is. 1483 01:37:08,130 --> 01:37:12,390 Dave Jones: If it was more pool, if it was more pull. To me, it 1484 01:37:12,390 --> 01:37:14,760 would make it would be more like ours. So it would make a lot 1485 01:37:14,760 --> 01:37:15,510 more sense. Yeah. 1486 01:37:15,870 --> 01:37:16,530 Adam Curry: But it's not. 1487 01:37:17,910 --> 01:37:20,910 Dave Jones: Yeah, this could be NC we have the benefit of pod 1488 01:37:20,910 --> 01:37:21,330 thing. 1489 01:37:21,480 --> 01:37:22,620 Adam Curry: Yes, exactly. 1490 01:37:22,710 --> 01:37:25,350 Dave Jones: Everything is so much more efficient, because 1491 01:37:25,500 --> 01:37:29,310 we're not going to, we're not going to send out you know, 1492 01:37:29,550 --> 01:37:32,430 we're not going to be polling all over the place. If you get 1493 01:37:32,880 --> 01:37:37,530 if you subscribe to a podcast to the bridge, you know, you're out 1494 01:37:37,530 --> 01:37:42,090 you're gonna get you're gonna get one shared inbox paint hit. 1495 01:37:42,210 --> 01:37:42,750 That's it. 1496 01:37:43,980 --> 01:37:46,830 Adam Curry: I think this is this is a good this is I'm excited by 1497 01:37:46,830 --> 01:37:51,270 this. I mean, I know it's still kind of fluffy. But I can say 1498 01:37:51,270 --> 01:37:55,140 fluffy. It is fluffy. But I can see it. I can I can see how it's 1499 01:37:55,140 --> 01:37:58,950 how it's going to work. I can see that this is the it's just 1500 01:37:58,950 --> 01:38:02,250 sitting there activity Pub is it just sitting there ready to be 1501 01:38:02,250 --> 01:38:06,900 used for whatever abused, really abused by us for whatever we 1502 01:38:06,900 --> 01:38:11,940 need it for. And as its as such, it has such mass that it's I 1503 01:38:11,940 --> 01:38:14,430 think it's really good. Now of course, 1504 01:38:14,430 --> 01:38:16,650 Dave Jones: he's gonna talk about discovery to you. This 1505 01:38:16,650 --> 01:38:18,360 really helps discover Yes, 1506 01:38:19,020 --> 01:38:20,820 Adam Curry: of course his block lists, which will be 1507 01:38:20,820 --> 01:38:25,590 interesting, but that's a whole nother thing to deal with 1508 01:38:25,590 --> 01:38:27,120 eventually. It's 1509 01:38:27,120 --> 01:38:31,320 Dave Jones: surely we initially won't be on on any because this 1510 01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:34,680 is a new domain that won't. We won't have a prayer because 1511 01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:38,670 podcasts index dot social is on block list, but podcast 1512 01:38:38,670 --> 01:38:42,120 index.org is nice. So maybe we'll have a we're on block 1513 01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:46,860 lists. Social Yeah, we're on block lists. Why? Because it's 1514 01:38:46,860 --> 01:38:48,240 affiliated with you. Oh. 1515 01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:55,680 Adam Curry: Really? That guy? That guy? Really? I'm uh, we're 1516 01:38:55,680 --> 01:38:58,410 on BlockLess because of me. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, 1517 01:38:58,410 --> 01:39:00,510 Dave Jones: we talked about on the show of a long time ago. It 1518 01:39:00,510 --> 01:39:04,740 was like, all these stupid reasons. You know, the reasons 1519 01:39:04,740 --> 01:39:09,270 are hilarious that they give us all is like a you know, no 1520 01:39:09,270 --> 01:39:11,490 agenda social adjacent or something. 1521 01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:18,360 Adam Curry: Man. That's amazing. That's crazy. Shall we thank a 1522 01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:21,390 few people, man. We just we went through a buck 40 There. That's 1523 01:39:21,390 --> 01:39:23,610 pretty good. All right, let me see what we got coming in Dred 1524 01:39:23,610 --> 01:39:27,780 Scott. It's a lot less than normal, of course, because this 1525 01:39:27,780 --> 01:39:34,710 is the boardroom after dark. Dred Scott bread 23456 Missed 1526 01:39:34,710 --> 01:39:38,430 the Go Live as I've been canning pumpkin butter. Well, we all 1527 01:39:38,430 --> 01:39:44,280 have priorities. We all have priorities drag. Catch you on 1528 01:39:44,280 --> 01:39:46,770 the flip side when I'm working on chapters. Please be careful 1529 01:39:46,770 --> 01:39:50,490 where you put your web finger when dealing with Gui gewiss. 1530 01:39:51,330 --> 01:39:54,720 Sorry, could not resist he says yes, I got your brother. As 1531 01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:58,260 Great. Thank you. Chad f is this the booster Graham lounge 1532 01:39:58,260 --> 01:40:01,890 Karen's always talking about Yes. This is the one you got it. 1533 01:40:02,850 --> 01:40:09,840 We got 12345 from primitive one. Interesting. When you do in in 1534 01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:15,150 helipad 12345 is See No Evil Hear No Evil speak no evil 1535 01:40:15,150 --> 01:40:20,280 monkeys as is the emojis that pop up as usual happy to be part 1536 01:40:20,280 --> 01:40:25,050 of the revolution we got there is chyron mere mortals podcast 1537 01:40:25,080 --> 01:40:29,070 1111 I lied. I can actually join for a bit. I'm let your lead 1538 01:40:29,100 --> 01:40:33,900 we're all met. Yes we are. We are we are well, yeah. Well let 1539 01:40:35,160 --> 01:40:38,670 me see I just did a boosted ground ball this afternoon. So 1540 01:40:38,700 --> 01:40:42,300 there's a lot of stuff here is chyron pre boosting and 1541 01:40:42,300 --> 01:40:45,150 bemoaning fate the one time you guys change your schedule just 1542 01:40:45,150 --> 01:40:48,480 for me. Right? I have other obligations. Okay. So he was 1543 01:40:48,480 --> 01:40:51,150 able to listen to a little bit obviously, I guess he's, he's 1544 01:40:51,150 --> 01:40:53,880 just getting up. You must be morning there in Australia. 1545 01:40:54,510 --> 01:40:58,800 Think I can't remember. And those were our those were our 1546 01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:01,590 booths that came in during the live Dave, what do we have in on 1547 01:41:01,590 --> 01:41:05,610 the on the schedule from us since our last board meeting? We 1548 01:41:05,610 --> 01:41:09,570 Dave Jones: have we got we got one. Pay Pal for the week, we 1549 01:41:09,570 --> 01:41:13,410 get Oscar marry $200 from the founding guys, and that deserves 1550 01:41:13,410 --> 01:41:13,590 a 1551 01:41:14,700 --> 01:41:18,420 Adam Curry: stock call off what is blades? Only him? Paula, 1552 01:41:18,420 --> 01:41:21,540 thank you so much, Oscar Mary. That's very much appreciated. 1553 01:41:22,170 --> 01:41:27,780 Dave Jones: Yeah. And we'll I think we discussed his proposal 1554 01:41:27,780 --> 01:41:31,860 and we're well, towards the end of the month, we'll get back I 1555 01:41:31,860 --> 01:41:35,280 think we can hopefully if we can get we can get some consensus 1556 01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:36,540 and everything around that. 1557 01:41:36,900 --> 01:41:42,090 Adam Curry: Adding a new type to the the, the value block. 1558 01:41:42,870 --> 01:41:46,200 Dave Jones: Value recipient, recipient, yes. Okay. So that so 1559 01:41:46,200 --> 01:41:51,480 they can have Lightning Lightning addresses in the value 1560 01:41:51,480 --> 01:41:54,900 recipient deck? And I really don't, you know, so many people 1561 01:41:54,900 --> 01:41:57,090 are using Alby. Now, I don't think it's going to hurt 1562 01:41:57,090 --> 01:42:02,040 anything, because it's gonna it'll be the apps can just hand 1563 01:42:02,040 --> 01:42:06,090 that lightning address to Alby and let it resolve that itself, 1564 01:42:06,540 --> 01:42:09,150 Adam Curry: which works fine. I mean, sovereign feeds does that. 1565 01:42:09,150 --> 01:42:14,370 And so we don't have to resolve with that'll just be a wallet, a 1566 01:42:14,370 --> 01:42:17,640 wallet provider resolution? Yeah. 1567 01:42:18,120 --> 01:42:20,400 Dave Jones: Yes, right. Yeah, no, I don't think you'll have to 1568 01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:25,200 resolve all in app that. I don't think this is a scary change, I 1569 01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:27,240 think it's, I think it's going to be fine. It's going to make 1570 01:42:27,750 --> 01:42:30,300 it will make things easier for them. Because if they have to 1571 01:42:30,300 --> 01:42:35,040 change infrastructure, if they have to switch their nodes, lb 1572 01:42:35,070 --> 01:42:39,150 and fountain hosts so many nodes, is difficult for them to 1573 01:42:39,150 --> 01:42:41,520 track down all these podcasts that are still going to be using 1574 01:42:41,520 --> 01:42:45,630 the old pub key. So and it doesn't, it doesn't prohibit 1575 01:42:45,660 --> 01:42:48,060 anybody, you can use pub key. If you want, you can use lightning 1576 01:42:48,060 --> 01:42:51,900 address if you want. I think it's fine. So hopefully we'll 1577 01:42:51,900 --> 01:42:54,390 get that done by the end of the month so that they can we'll put 1578 01:42:54,390 --> 01:42:58,710 that in the spec so that they can move on. Okay. Thanks. 1579 01:42:58,740 --> 01:43:03,570 Thanks, Oscar. Appreciate that, that that support. Mike Dell, we 1580 01:43:03,570 --> 01:43:09,030 get the guest boost. Mike Dale 1701. He says now My name is on 1581 01:43:09,030 --> 01:43:09,210 it. 1582 01:43:11,640 --> 01:43:13,470 Adam Curry: He was I think it was boosting to be in the 1583 01:43:13,470 --> 01:43:16,800 chapters, which was by the way, oh, that's kind of nice. It 1584 01:43:16,800 --> 01:43:20,130 seems like everybody kind of resolved that. Seems like most 1585 01:43:20,130 --> 01:43:23,970 of the apps have gotten the TOC equals false working for them. 1586 01:43:23,970 --> 01:43:28,140 And I don't think I think it's the problems have kind of kind 1587 01:43:28,140 --> 01:43:30,150 of gone away. It's nice. I'd like that. 1588 01:43:30,750 --> 01:43:32,760 Dave Jones: Yeah, I haven't seen any complaints about it lately. 1589 01:43:32,790 --> 01:43:35,700 Adam Curry: So I think podcasts the guru still needs to 1590 01:43:36,030 --> 01:43:40,410 implement a change maybe but I've only gotten one complaint. 1591 01:43:41,460 --> 01:43:45,030 So in the end that that guy was like, Okay, that's cool. You 1592 01:43:45,030 --> 01:43:48,420 said hey, the chapters are all messed up. No, it was it was it 1593 01:43:48,420 --> 01:43:52,410 was an app that we didn't even know about I caster has never 1594 01:43:52,410 --> 01:43:56,640 even heard. Yes. And I cast her apparently is doing chapters and 1595 01:43:56,640 --> 01:44:01,830 from what I understand the web version at least of Pocket Casts 1596 01:44:01,830 --> 01:44:05,070 also does cloud chapters now. Yes. 1597 01:44:05,730 --> 01:44:08,520 Dave Jones: Another another reason why it's It's okay. We 1598 01:44:08,520 --> 01:44:13,050 pause here for a little while with the namespace because three 1599 01:44:13,050 --> 01:44:16,170 years later answers is just coming on board. 1600 01:44:16,170 --> 01:44:19,110 Adam Curry: That's a big deal, man. That's a big deal. I think 1601 01:44:19,110 --> 01:44:21,570 that's phenomenal because booster grams we've been showing 1602 01:44:21,570 --> 01:44:23,760 up on Pocket Casts according to Dame Jennifer. 1603 01:44:24,390 --> 01:44:27,930 Dave Jones: I hope that pre stages some more some work on 1604 01:44:27,930 --> 01:44:29,580 the actual native apps. Yeah, wouldn't 1605 01:44:29,580 --> 01:44:30,630 Adam Curry: that be nice? Yeah, 1606 01:44:30,660 --> 01:44:35,310 Dave Jones: that'd be wonderful. Yeah. Every piece is podcast 1607 01:44:35,310 --> 01:44:40,620 indexed as social as 82 blocks and then a social has 920 1608 01:44:42,690 --> 01:44:45,750 Adam Curry: Yay. We're number one. 1609 01:44:46,620 --> 01:44:48,870 Dave Jones: All the blocks on the podcast index dot social, 1610 01:44:48,870 --> 01:44:51,090 just say Indian Santa Claus beside them. 1611 01:44:52,380 --> 01:44:56,400 Adam Curry: We just added 15 blocks to our to our Mastodon 1612 01:44:57,420 --> 01:45:00,240 Dave Jones: gene been 20 to 22 Row ducks to customers. A 1613 01:45:00,300 --> 01:45:02,730 cosmetic he says Bring on the ipv6. 1614 01:45:05,790 --> 01:45:12,030 Adam Curry: Isn't it amazing that the a cast was the CEO? I 1615 01:45:12,030 --> 01:45:15,900 was really baffled by this. It was pod news was reporting on it 1616 01:45:16,290 --> 01:45:22,500 that the CEO said, Well, you know, our list our downloads are 1617 01:45:22,500 --> 01:45:27,510 down. Because Apple changed the automatic downloads like what do 1618 01:45:27,510 --> 01:45:31,590 you just say the quiet part out loud dude. What did you just do? 1619 01:45:31,590 --> 01:45:35,430 Really? You didn't just say that. Did you? Yeah, that's even 1620 01:45:35,430 --> 01:45:38,310 funnier to hear James had no I can't be Apple yet. It'll be 1621 01:45:38,310 --> 01:45:45,570 Apple next month. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't just prove that is 1622 01:45:45,570 --> 01:45:49,410 kind of bogus. Am I Am I seeing that wrong? 1623 01:45:49,890 --> 01:45:52,230 Dave Jones: No, no, I think you're 100% Right. That's 1624 01:45:52,260 --> 01:45:53,940 Adam Curry: I thought that was funny. 1625 01:45:55,200 --> 01:45:57,270 Dave Jones: The other the other one I love this week with 1626 01:45:57,270 --> 01:46:01,230 everybody reporting their earnings. You know, is like we 1627 01:46:01,350 --> 01:46:06,060 were you know, they always report revenues up and it's 1628 01:46:06,060 --> 01:46:08,310 like, still not making a profit. most 1629 01:46:08,310 --> 01:46:11,550 Adam Curry: profitable. If we only fire five more people will 1630 01:46:11,550 --> 01:46:13,830 be profitable. Uh, come on, guys. 1631 01:46:15,300 --> 01:46:20,700 Dave Jones: pesky payroll. Chat F 10,000 SATs. Great episode 1632 01:46:20,700 --> 01:46:22,650 today. Thank you, Chad. Appreciate it. Thank you, 1633 01:46:22,650 --> 01:46:28,860 brother. See RP. 1984 4000 SATs through fountain he says 1634 01:46:28,860 --> 01:46:31,320 currently using fountain and even after digging through the 1635 01:46:31,320 --> 01:46:35,400 menu, I did not see how to bring up the artist info. Thanks for 1636 01:46:35,400 --> 01:46:38,070 the heads up, Adam. I'll dig in some more this weekend and find 1637 01:46:38,070 --> 01:46:38,370 that 1638 01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:42,150 Adam Curry: I think what he's talking about is when we have a 1639 01:46:42,480 --> 01:46:47,010 magic wallet switch, also known as value time split. And if 1640 01:46:47,010 --> 01:46:50,130 you're in Fountain you when you're listening to a podcast 1641 01:46:50,130 --> 01:46:54,690 that has in this case, as you're talking about music, you go to 1642 01:46:54,690 --> 01:46:58,860 the References tab on that episode and then the References 1643 01:46:58,860 --> 01:47:02,280 tab will show you all of the artists all the tracks that were 1644 01:47:02,280 --> 01:47:06,690 played in the song and on that podcast guru it's the V four v. 1645 01:47:08,610 --> 01:47:12,810 Logo works really well. It's very cool. 1646 01:47:13,770 --> 01:47:15,990 Dave Jones: Did you Did Mr. Graham ball live right? 1647 01:47:16,020 --> 01:47:18,420 Adam Curry: I did. I did like an hour and 20 minutes I couldn't 1648 01:47:18,420 --> 01:47:21,870 stop. Oh, wow. I love that. I 1649 01:47:21,900 --> 01:47:27,600 Dave Jones: love the image check the top. The top 1x x it 1650 01:47:27,600 --> 01:47:33,540 Adam Curry: was top 156 for me today. Oh top 159 Actually let 1651 01:47:33,540 --> 01:47:37,140 me see what is it right now? 167. Um, we got a lot of tops. 1652 01:47:37,710 --> 01:47:41,730 pirate radio number one. We got shrooms. By the way. I want to 1653 01:47:41,730 --> 01:47:46,680 say hi to Barry from pod home.fm Just a Dutch guy. 1654 01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:49,650 Dave Jones: Oh, yes. He and he 1655 01:47:49,650 --> 01:47:51,540 Adam Curry: was interviewed if you haven't listened to it yet 1656 01:47:51,540 --> 01:47:54,750 was interviewed on pod news weekly review. And he said 1657 01:47:54,750 --> 01:47:59,280 something to me in Dutch is he will do seller base it here. 1658 01:47:59,550 --> 01:48:00,300 Okay, so 1659 01:48:02,430 --> 01:48:07,020 Dave Jones: now now who's this is like an audio DM. That's 1660 01:48:07,020 --> 01:48:08,250 exactly what that was. 1661 01:48:11,160 --> 01:48:14,610 Adam Curry: He apparently has his service you. You just throw 1662 01:48:14,610 --> 01:48:17,700 your podcast in there. And it does everything and it comes 1663 01:48:17,700 --> 01:48:20,760 back after like a minute and says, Here's your transcripts. 1664 01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:24,540 Here's your title. Here's your here's your chapters. It doesn't 1665 01:48:24,540 --> 01:48:29,490 all in one go. Yeah. Oh, crap. He said I have no, he was a 1666 01:48:29,490 --> 01:48:34,110 great term. And I have no not code legacy. But oh, there's a 1667 01:48:34,110 --> 01:48:38,070 term for it that I really liked. Like, no, because when you have 1668 01:48:38,280 --> 01:48:40,770 when you have old code that you just have to deal with and you 1669 01:48:40,770 --> 01:48:43,800 can't implement and that there's nothing to say yes. Yeah, I have 1670 01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:46,680 no debt. I have no technology debt. It's exactly what you 1671 01:48:46,680 --> 01:48:50,610 said. It's like wow, that was very cool. These interesting guy 1672 01:48:50,610 --> 01:48:52,800 that's why I want to check it out what he's doing, because 1673 01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:56,070 seems like he kind of leapfrog with the AI stuff. Instead of 1674 01:48:56,280 --> 01:49:04,140 being a strap on. Add on. Sorry, an add on. My wife isn't home 1675 01:49:04,140 --> 01:49:11,490 okay. Dana, come back and come back like yeah, you just you 1676 01:49:11,490 --> 01:49:13,950 just upload it and it does all this stuff for you. I have to 1677 01:49:13,950 --> 01:49:17,280 check it off to see it, though. Nice. Sounds cool. Oh, sounds 1678 01:49:17,280 --> 01:49:17,580 cool. 1679 01:49:19,320 --> 01:49:25,440 Dave Jones: See, we get 31 night is a 319480. That's 319 48. 1680 01:49:25,470 --> 01:49:26,070 Israeli 1681 01:49:26,130 --> 01:49:29,040 Adam Curry: Israeli. Yes. Hey, how you doing brother? 1682 01:49:29,460 --> 01:49:31,980 Dave Jones: Cast? emetics is sorry for live boost apps. It's 1683 01:49:31,980 --> 01:49:33,180 been a little distracted here. 1684 01:49:34,650 --> 01:49:36,930 Adam Curry: Just a little distracted with it was a war. 1685 01:49:37,410 --> 01:49:38,670 You guys are next 1686 01:49:38,670 --> 01:49:41,580 Dave Jones: door. Yeah. I'm still around and pod ping is 1687 01:49:41,580 --> 01:49:42,930 still pinging? Yes. 1688 01:49:42,960 --> 01:49:45,930 Adam Curry: And is Broyles Okay, I see Roy's on the telegram so 1689 01:49:45,930 --> 01:49:48,270 he's still alive. Everyone's still good. Let's go our friends 1690 01:49:48,270 --> 01:49:48,960 are alive. 1691 01:49:49,740 --> 01:49:53,340 Dave Jones: Yes, some breeze is working on stuff. One of the vet 1692 01:49:53,370 --> 01:49:57,690 developers at breeze the enemy on podcast index dot social is 1693 01:49:57,690 --> 01:50:00,840 Adam Curry: working on VTS right now your time listen I think so 1694 01:50:00,840 --> 01:50:06,540 you and I saw that some of our devs are looking at the breeze 1695 01:50:06,540 --> 01:50:07,260 SDK. 1696 01:50:08,429 --> 01:50:11,069 Dave Jones: Yeah, Alex is he's he's been digging into it. Yeah. 1697 01:50:11,129 --> 01:50:17,879 Yeah. Cool for Greg Greenlight. Let's see. Where did I lost my 1698 01:50:17,879 --> 01:50:25,019 cursor? There it is. Circus media sent 167 of 3333 Oh, that 1699 01:50:25,019 --> 01:50:29,849 was a that was a VTS boost? says our mateys. I guess he's talking 1700 01:50:29,849 --> 01:50:30,449 about pirate 1701 01:50:30,870 --> 01:50:32,100 Adam Curry: pirate radio Sure. 1702 01:50:33,870 --> 01:50:37,890 Dave Jones: As a Karen mere mortals podcast 2222 Tiny Tim 1703 01:50:37,920 --> 01:50:41,700 you missed the perfect episode to play my ISO. I know a lot I 1704 01:50:41,700 --> 01:50:46,470 know I forgot it. Um, see the ISO there's an ISO ISO and I 1705 01:50:46,470 --> 01:50:49,530 forgot to get it out of my email. Oh, I'll get it for next 1706 01:50:49,530 --> 01:50:56,460 year. Jacobson is 2222 as of BTS boost he says excellent track. 1707 01:50:56,580 --> 01:51:02,580 Thank you, Jacob. Balderdash boys and 22 to 22 do Felton. He 1708 01:51:02,580 --> 01:51:04,980 says great episode in the last few months I switched to 1709 01:51:04,980 --> 01:51:09,090 blueberry because they seem to really want to embrace 2.0 And I 1710 01:51:09,090 --> 01:51:11,670 haven't been disappointed. Thanks for all that you guys are 1711 01:51:11,670 --> 01:51:14,430 doing to revolutionize podcasting. Go podcasting. Sir 1712 01:51:14,430 --> 01:51:17,190 Wes of beer bourbon and balderdash. Yeah. 1713 01:51:17,430 --> 01:51:20,040 Adam Curry: This guy's are pretty funny. Oh, yeah. Got a 1714 01:51:20,040 --> 01:51:21,240 lot going on. Yeah. 1715 01:51:22,290 --> 01:51:25,800 Dave Jones: Mitch, D as Mitch downing for your uninitiated. 1716 01:51:25,830 --> 01:51:30,360 10,000 SATs through pod versus new and pod verse turbo confetti 1717 01:51:30,360 --> 01:51:31,620 dopamine boost. 1718 01:51:34,500 --> 01:51:38,970 Adam Curry: I know what that means. I do I do. Because when 1719 01:51:38,970 --> 01:51:43,560 you use pod verse and you boost it because just whatever the 1720 01:51:43,560 --> 01:51:47,280 overhead is, whatever you know, you know because a lot of splits 1721 01:51:47,550 --> 01:51:51,360 it would do all the splits before pod verse would give you 1722 01:51:51,510 --> 01:51:55,620 some gratification and now it's just like here take this spurt 1723 01:51:55,620 --> 01:51:59,640 here's some confetti trust us the payment went we think check 1724 01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:03,240 later. I guess it's the way to go premature 1725 01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:05,700 Dave Jones: it's a premature confetti I guess. That's 1726 01:52:05,730 --> 01:52:07,470 Adam Curry: That's what pod verse does. You know, you hit 1727 01:52:07,470 --> 01:52:11,190 the pod verse was the whole screen shakes, lightning shows 1728 01:52:11,190 --> 01:52:14,490 up confetti goes and like check later to see if it went through. 1729 01:52:14,490 --> 01:52:18,120 You're good. You enjoy your listening experience. Trust me. 1730 01:52:19,680 --> 01:52:21,720 Which honestly, I think is the way to go. 1731 01:52:23,100 --> 01:52:25,740 Dave Jones: Thanks, Mitch. Appreciate it. Comic Strip 1732 01:52:25,740 --> 01:52:33,780 blogger. The delimiter the delimiter 30 915 C. Wait, 1733 01:52:33,810 --> 01:52:36,300 Adam Curry: do I 30 915 No, 1734 01:52:36,330 --> 01:52:40,500 Dave Jones: don't miss one. Oh, wait, wait. I'm 31 it threw me 1735 01:52:40,530 --> 01:52:43,620 It threw me off e podcast or sent 10,000 SATs. Thank you 1736 01:52:44,220 --> 01:52:48,030 through fountain 10,000 SATs because we are on day 10 of 1737 01:52:48,030 --> 01:52:54,990 national podcast post month aka net not pod Pomo oh yeah, this 1738 01:52:54,990 --> 01:52:59,340 Adam Curry: is I don't know what that thing is. No more podcast 1739 01:52:59,370 --> 01:53:03,030 post month. I have no idea who made this. Omo is someone's 1740 01:53:03,030 --> 01:53:06,300 making money off of that. No doubt. scam. 1741 01:53:06,570 --> 01:53:09,960 Dave Jones: I can tell. Thank you e podcaster. And now comic 1742 01:53:09,960 --> 01:53:15,960 strip blogger nearly 30,915. Yes. Yes. Through fountain. 1743 01:53:16,890 --> 01:53:20,880 Howdy, David. Adam. Check out unrelenting. The podcast where 1744 01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:24,150 Jean and Darrin make sense. And a few jokes about everything 1745 01:53:24,150 --> 01:53:28,260 from Tech Trends. Taylor Swift, how to get rich quick to 1746 01:53:28,260 --> 01:53:33,990 political twists, tune in laugh and maybe learn something at WWW 1747 01:53:33,990 --> 01:53:38,610 dot unrelenting dot show or live on no agenda stream one or two 1748 01:53:38,610 --> 01:53:42,000 hours before podcasting. 2.0 live stream yo CSB. 1749 01:53:42,030 --> 01:53:44,130 Adam Curry: That's right, they usually on right before us. 1750 01:53:45,510 --> 01:53:51,570 Dave Jones: Get some monthlies. Get Joseph maraca $5 Emilio can 1751 01:53:51,570 --> 01:53:58,170 Oh Molina $4 you by the way I think Emilio is a Mexican 1752 01:53:58,170 --> 01:54:05,370 podcaster or Podcast Producer I'm not sure. But did you see it 1753 01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:07,170 on live stream I 1754 01:54:07,200 --> 01:54:12,630 Adam Curry: podcast is pod con.mx Live It was very good. 1755 01:54:12,630 --> 01:54:15,780 Now. What was weird is the balance was a little bit off for 1756 01:54:15,780 --> 01:54:19,140 me. So I wish I could have balanced between hearing James 1757 01:54:19,140 --> 01:54:23,970 talk and and the Mexican Spanish translation. Okay, so that got a 1758 01:54:23,970 --> 01:54:29,340 little you know, I was like I got a little nutty. But that's 1759 01:54:29,340 --> 01:54:33,480 the whole thing. The fact that it worked. The fact that you 1760 01:54:33,480 --> 01:54:38,220 could boost I watched it pod verse on the web. Did you watch 1761 01:54:38,220 --> 01:54:38,970 it in an app? 1762 01:54:39,870 --> 01:54:42,960 Dave Jones: Not just about it was during work hours. So I was 1763 01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:47,460 I was checking the curio I looked at it and it was a curio 1764 01:54:47,460 --> 01:54:51,450 caster. Yeah. Okay. We're in we're Murphy. I'm sorry. I'm 1765 01:54:51,450 --> 01:54:52,200 sorry. Pod verse. 1766 01:54:52,260 --> 01:54:54,630 Adam Curry: Yeah, the pod verse on the web version one. It's 1767 01:54:54,630 --> 01:54:55,080 great. 1768 01:54:55,830 --> 01:54:59,970 Dave Jones: Yeah, it was it was perfect. Like God bless you. 1769 01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:04,680 Roberto and Ben for like doing some sort eating your own dog 1770 01:55:04,680 --> 01:55:06,900 Adam Curry: food. Yes, yes, exactly. 1771 01:55:07,410 --> 01:55:11,430 Dave Jones: That is we need more of that people in people in 1772 01:55:11,430 --> 01:55:17,610 podcasting, using podcast apps to do the stuff. Don't you know, 1773 01:55:17,730 --> 01:55:21,570 instead of jumping over to, to YouTube or something else, yes, 1774 01:55:21,570 --> 01:55:25,380 use the apps use the apps in your own ecosystem. I 1775 01:55:25,380 --> 01:55:27,960 Adam Curry: thought it was. It was really cool. I love that 1776 01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:31,170 because it's one of those things. Now, did they organize 1777 01:55:31,170 --> 01:55:33,960 this podcast? That was RSS as deal? That was their own? I 1778 01:55:33,960 --> 01:55:34,380 think? 1779 01:55:34,680 --> 01:55:36,870 Dave Jones: I think so. Yeah, they have a big presence in 1780 01:55:36,900 --> 01:55:39,120 Mexico. They're real big push down there. You 1781 01:55:39,120 --> 01:55:42,000 Adam Curry: know, those kinds of things. It's like risky, and it 1782 01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:46,800 could be you could wind up looking like an idiot. So I for 1783 01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:49,290 the same reasons, Dave, I appreciate him like, Oh, that's 1784 01:55:49,290 --> 01:55:52,860 so cool that you guys did that. And yeah, you know, and there's 1785 01:55:52,860 --> 01:55:56,610 this there's this. I know that Alberto is going to write it up 1786 01:55:56,610 --> 01:56:01,110 because there's a there's a live show that's going to be taking 1787 01:56:01,110 --> 01:56:07,020 place I think in December or January in Avenue one I think it 1788 01:56:07,020 --> 01:56:10,740 is it's in Minneapolis be like Prince's old club or something. 1789 01:56:11,220 --> 01:56:16,980 And just loud and Ainsley Costello will be performing 1790 01:56:16,980 --> 01:56:22,170 live. And, and the guy who owns the club, I think of the venue. 1791 01:56:22,530 --> 01:56:25,620 You know, he's been like, yeah, I wanted I want to do value for 1792 01:56:25,620 --> 01:56:30,270 value. And I know he's talked to Alex and I know but I've talked 1793 01:56:30,270 --> 01:56:36,120 to him. I don't know why. They haven't even mentioned noster 1794 01:56:36,120 --> 01:56:41,100 Asia. Yeah, I don't work with Adam curry. Okay. You know, it's 1795 01:56:41,160 --> 01:56:44,910 just to do this thing live. But I think for some it feels to me 1796 01:56:44,910 --> 01:56:49,200 like, like, they don't want to do it or it's not nostre are 1797 01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:52,110 something which is just whatever it is, you're making a mistake. 1798 01:56:52,170 --> 01:56:55,920 This is the way to go. This is the way to go. But it works 1799 01:56:55,920 --> 01:56:59,760 people can can connect their wallets, they can they can they 1800 01:56:59,760 --> 01:57:05,820 can booths, they can stream it works. Bitcoin, Amsterdam. You 1801 01:57:05,820 --> 01:57:09,690 guys are losers, you should have been doing this. We told you 1802 01:57:09,690 --> 01:57:13,770 we'd help you you didn't get back to us. And here's rss.com 1803 01:57:13,770 --> 01:57:16,110 Just doing and you know what, I'm going to tell you what's 1804 01:57:16,110 --> 01:57:20,370 gonna happen. They're gonna do this with Crowder, louder with 1805 01:57:20,370 --> 01:57:27,750 Crowder like him or not doesn't matter piece on rss.com You 1806 01:57:27,750 --> 01:57:30,780 know, after he left, whatever the left YouTube and all these 1807 01:57:30,780 --> 01:57:35,190 guys whatever. And I said you should go with the with one of 1808 01:57:35,190 --> 01:57:38,400 our guys. So they went with rss.com. You watch they're going 1809 01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:40,800 to be streaming live with this live stuff and they're going to 1810 01:57:40,800 --> 01:57:43,710 be getting boosted grams. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm not 1811 01:57:43,710 --> 01:57:44,070 a wall. I 1812 01:57:44,070 --> 01:57:46,230 Dave Jones: don't listen. I've never listened to his shows. He 1813 01:57:46,230 --> 01:57:47,070 does a live show. 1814 01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:49,830 Adam Curry: Yeah, I think he does alive. Yeah, 1815 01:57:49,860 --> 01:57:53,070 Dave Jones: I think the crew Crowder, go, yeah, that that 1816 01:57:53,100 --> 01:57:57,060 that would be killer, that we just need more. More than just 1817 01:57:57,060 --> 01:58:00,720 need more of this. We need more of people in the podcast world 1818 01:58:01,050 --> 01:58:06,120 using podcast apps to do their stuff. Because I mean, if you 1819 01:58:06,120 --> 01:58:11,310 say your pot, if you say if you talk up if you say podcasting is 1820 01:58:11,340 --> 01:58:13,530 where it's at. Prove it. 1821 01:58:13,620 --> 01:58:21,030 Adam Curry: Yeah, Todd. Todd. Whoa. Well, come on. They they 1822 01:58:21,030 --> 01:58:22,320 do it live doing it. He's 1823 01:58:22,320 --> 01:58:23,010 Dave Jones: doing it live. 1824 01:58:23,220 --> 01:58:25,530 Adam Curry: He's doing the audio. He's doing the audio, but 1825 01:58:25,530 --> 01:58:28,530 I don't think he does the video. I don't think he does video that 1826 01:58:29,190 --> 01:58:31,950 that's on. I believe they do that on YouTube. I 1827 01:58:31,950 --> 01:58:35,850 Dave Jones: want to see the podcast. What are the words that 1828 01:58:35,850 --> 01:58:37,200 he does? Well, 1829 01:58:37,200 --> 01:58:38,970 Adam Curry: that Well, I don't want to wait another year for 1830 01:58:40,410 --> 01:58:41,610 the next new media show. 1831 01:58:42,030 --> 01:58:44,310 Dave Jones: But these conference type things where do you do you 1832 01:58:44,310 --> 01:58:45,630 know, like these events? Yeah. 1833 01:58:48,120 --> 01:58:50,010 Adam Curry: You know, maybe, maybe, you know, I'm gonna get 1834 01:58:50,010 --> 01:58:53,460 mad one of these days and I'm just gonna do a conference. No, 1835 01:58:53,460 --> 01:58:56,400 Dave Jones: you're not no. Yeah, that's all Yes. Okay. All right. 1836 01:58:57,930 --> 01:58:59,610 Tina, come back. This is how 1837 01:58:59,610 --> 01:59:00,480 Adam Curry: we keep each other and you 1838 01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:03,300 Dave Jones: just raised this Absolutely. You're losing it. 1839 01:59:04,830 --> 01:59:07,950 Adam Curry: Come home quick. a month. Rest 1840 01:59:07,950 --> 01:59:10,770 Dave Jones: of the Muslims got basil. Philip $25 Thank you, 1841 01:59:10,770 --> 01:59:13,860 basil. We appreciate that very much pod verse. Mentioned the 1842 01:59:13,860 --> 01:59:15,330 boys $50 1843 01:59:15,390 --> 01:59:18,210 Adam Curry: Thank you Lauren ball. $24.20 1844 01:59:18,210 --> 01:59:21,090 Dave Jones: Thank you, Lauren. Christopher horrible. Eric $10 1845 01:59:21,300 --> 01:59:24,390 and Mitch Mitchell Downey again $10. Yes. 1846 01:59:24,450 --> 01:59:28,710 Adam Curry: Thank you all so much. We appreciate the support. 1847 01:59:29,010 --> 01:59:33,300 You're supporting our our Obliteration and we really 1848 01:59:33,300 --> 01:59:37,710 appreciate that our mission is to you support us until we don't 1849 01:59:37,710 --> 01:59:40,320 need support anymore. And then we just gone and then everything 1850 01:59:40,320 --> 01:59:44,880 works. It will be verified and then Adam and Dave just we just 1851 01:59:44,910 --> 01:59:48,900 peace out. We just sail off we just go into the sunset, like to 1852 01:59:48,900 --> 01:59:58,170 cowboy hat. Christopher Christopher cross, say Lin, take 1853 01:59:58,170 --> 02:00:04,440 me away too. Where the latency doesn't work with our harmonies? 1854 02:00:06,930 --> 02:00:10,410 Yes, Chris, criss cross as we say, Yes, criss cross, 1855 02:00:10,980 --> 02:00:11,400 Dave Jones: this criss 1856 02:00:11,400 --> 02:00:14,670 Adam Curry: cross. Let me see if I have anything else on my list. 1857 02:00:15,600 --> 02:00:20,040 Pom Pom Lucy. Well, just even though we passed the topics 1858 02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:24,480 Mozilla is working on fare defying in the browser, I guess 1859 02:00:25,050 --> 02:00:28,230 was that the article we have in the browser here activity pub in 1860 02:00:28,230 --> 02:00:34,290 the browser? Curl now does IPFS 1861 02:00:36,300 --> 02:00:38,820 Dave Jones: yep, that's the deal. But 1862 02:00:38,820 --> 02:00:40,770 Adam Curry: they use a gateway, right? It's not really an IP, it 1863 02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:43,860 is not doesn't have an IP Fs client. And it magically you can 1864 02:00:43,860 --> 02:00:45,090 just define a gateway. 1865 02:00:46,680 --> 02:00:51,360 Dave Jones: You can you define a thought you define the Default 1866 02:00:51,360 --> 02:00:51,870 Node. 1867 02:00:52,170 --> 02:00:54,780 Adam Curry: Okay, so it doesn't include a node you can you can 1868 02:00:54,780 --> 02:00:58,050 define a node on your own machine. I 1869 02:00:58,050 --> 02:01:01,680 Dave Jones: think that's right. I did. I don't think it's using 1870 02:01:01,680 --> 02:01:06,360 a gateway I think is native. Because it's talking about I 1871 02:01:06,630 --> 02:01:09,840 mean, I think it's native. I'll have to reread it but I thought 1872 02:01:09,840 --> 02:01:10,500 it was native. 1873 02:01:11,010 --> 02:01:12,870 Adam Curry: Well, I thought I thought it could breed the 1874 02:01:12,870 --> 02:01:17,760 native IPFS and then it would retrieve it from the gateway you 1875 02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:23,490 define. Maybe Maybe I saw that wrong. Maybe I saw that as 1876 02:01:24,030 --> 02:01:28,740 Dave Jones: a basis for get merged into curl. I love curl 1877 02:01:28,740 --> 02:01:36,330 with you. I'm a curl guy over wi yet it's got way more way more 1878 02:01:36,330 --> 02:01:40,410 capable. At the first input there are various ways to access 1879 02:01:40,410 --> 02:01:46,800 data one such ways to conserve gateway. Or Lani, Evie, there's 1880 02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:49,320 integration curl hides this gateway logic for you. So 1881 02:01:49,320 --> 02:01:52,860 instead of providing a full URL to a file on an IP Fs like this 1882 02:01:53,490 --> 02:01:57,240 you can provide it with the FAA as a protocol Yes, you're right 1883 02:01:57,240 --> 02:01:57,390 you're 1884 02:01:58,860 --> 02:02:03,420 Adam Curry: my SIR wins again. Yeah, yes, yes. Anything I'm 1885 02:02:03,420 --> 02:02:11,250 good at it's man. Man Man curl. And thank you very much Spotify 1886 02:02:11,250 --> 02:02:14,790 for pushing more people towards value for value music pushing us 1887 02:02:14,790 --> 02:02:19,650 toward the value verse. New term New term I came up with today. 1888 02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:24,300 The value verse Yes. By no longer paying people any money 1889 02:02:24,330 --> 02:02:30,000 great. We're so appreciative. Like, you have to be played at 1890 02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:33,540 least 1000 times a month before you get any money and the money 1891 02:02:33,570 --> 02:02:37,860 if so if you have 999 streams, they give it to Taylor Swift. 1892 02:02:38,100 --> 02:02:41,190 I'm telling you these guys these guys got great marketing come to 1893 02:02:41,190 --> 02:02:42,480 us we'll rip you off. 1894 02:02:43,530 --> 02:02:46,590 Dave Jones: It's hilarious that it was it was Twitter or 1895 02:02:46,590 --> 02:02:49,080 something? Where did I see that check of somebody who had like a 1896 02:02:49,080 --> 02:02:54,510 whole ton of streams and it was like 1000s and 1000s 40 bucks. 1897 02:02:55,020 --> 02:02:57,870 Adam Curry: I think that was I think it was on I might have 1898 02:02:57,870 --> 02:03:01,410 been on the mastodon I saw it and then I love and Sam Seth he 1899 02:03:01,410 --> 02:03:04,380 was doing some great math I love that. He's like you know for all 1900 02:03:04,380 --> 02:03:08,520 that you know if you'd done it by this and divided by 15 Square 1901 02:03:08,520 --> 02:03:12,510 root you make more on value for value. That's right. always 1902 02:03:12,510 --> 02:03:16,650 true. It's always true. All right, brother thanks for giving 1903 02:03:16,650 --> 02:03:19,230 up your Friday night this was well worth it. I love being in 1904 02:03:19,230 --> 02:03:21,780 the in the boardroom after dark with you 1905 02:03:22,410 --> 02:03:26,070 Dave Jones: yeah that's that's yep conflict today day jobs 1906 02:03:26,070 --> 02:03:28,020 happen so now's this was good. 1907 02:03:28,230 --> 02:03:30,360 Adam Curry: We should just plan this in from time to time just 1908 02:03:30,360 --> 02:03:33,990 do I love I love doing a podcast at night. Nice and dark and get 1909 02:03:33,990 --> 02:03:36,330 everything off. I got the green visor on. 1910 02:03:36,870 --> 02:03:41,580 Dave Jones: gamma gamma lamp on the road casters. I'll pretty 1911 02:03:41,580 --> 02:03:41,760 well, 1912 02:03:42,510 --> 02:03:44,970 Adam Curry: you could see that. You could see the lights. Yeah, 1913 02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:45,900 yeah, 1914 02:03:45,930 --> 02:03:48,060 Dave Jones: we need to yeah, we'll do we'll do a brad every 1915 02:03:48,060 --> 02:03:50,040 now and then once in a while. That 1916 02:03:50,040 --> 02:03:52,320 Adam Curry: board room after dark everybody. All right. Thank 1917 02:03:52,320 --> 02:03:55,620 you very much. Chat Room for being with us. And thank you for 1918 02:03:55,620 --> 02:03:58,140 attending the board meeting. We'll be back next week with the 1919 02:03:58,140 --> 02:04:00,960 board meeting of podcasting 2.0. 1920 02:04:18,030 --> 02:04:22,590 Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast 1921 02:04:22,590 --> 02:04:25,350 index dashboard for more information. 1922 02:04:25,770 --> 02:04:29,430 Adam Curry: Go podcast. Clearly something sexy is happening 1923 02:04:29,430 --> 02:04:29,640 here.