Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for November 17 2023, episode 155
landing zone Hello everybody, welcome to podcasting. 2.0 This
is the boardroom that wants to vaporize its corporate
mothership. That's right. We're here to remove ourselves
everything going on with the current state of podcasting the
future of podcasting value for value. Yes, we've got all this
going on with the namespace podcast index.org podcast index
dot social and I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas
Hill Country in Alabama. The man who digs for nuggets in
cryptographic libraries wrapped in saying Say hello to my friend
on the other end ladies and gentlemen the one and only Mr.
day
Dave Jones: that's nugget with a sea
Adam Curry: nuggets in cryptographic libraries wrapped
in sea dog. I read your posts. I know I know what you're doing.
Like yeah,
Dave Jones: that that's we we are going to be we will be lucky
if we make it through the show. Because why is that? Oh, now my
house is freaking out.
Adam Curry: Is it your house? Or is it just Alabama? What's going
on Birmingham?
Dave Jones: Wish I could tell so we had this issue a few months
ago, about two or three months ago, we had this problem where
the lights would flicker just just to be like Berber Berber.
And that was your nose stop. Yeah, well, no, no, actually, it
was not okay. Alabama. The so we I thought it was the house I
thought. So I go you know, my first thinking is we live in So
we live in a really old house and I've replaced a lot of the
wiring our house was built in 1892.
Adam Curry: Oh, the wires were that with the cloth covering
around it the Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. It starts to rot away
slowly over time.
Dave Jones: We had knob and tube if you know what that is.
Adam Curry: I think I had that when I was in college. I'm not
sure if
Dave Jones: that's also an only fans channel.
Adam Curry: That's the line. That's the one I was looking
for.
Dave Jones: Helping you ally. Alright, so we hear you we have
knob and tube which is like these porcelain. Porcelain
standoffs.
Adam Curry: Oh yeah, of course I know it. Yes, I've seen that.
Dave Jones: And then porcelain tubes that go through the
through the joists. And so you like I've gone through there.
And over the last almost 10 years we've lived here, I've
ended up ripping most of that out. And we've only got about
only about 15% of the house left is still not been tube
everything else is up to code with Romex and everything. But
so I'm immediately thinking when this happened a few months ago,
these little blue rubber, you know, lights flickers. I'm like,
well, there must be a bad circuit somewhere. And in then
one LED on the circuit goes crazy and makes the all the rest
of them freak out. You know? Because who knows? I mean, these
LEDs have little computers.
Adam Curry: Oh, they're their own entity of goodness. Those
things are us. Yeah.
Dave Jones: And they're all crap, you know? So they ended up
not being the case. It was actually the transformer on the
pole outside was bad was going bad. Yeah. Because our neighbor
said the things he's like, are you awesome lights flickering?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, is that the whole neighborhood? You know,
essentially Oh, man. So then the power company replaced the
transformer. That was like three months ago. Everything's been
great. And then two days ago this thing started again. Now as
does do the same thing but what's weird about it? What
makes me think is not I don't understand the nature of this
problem. Because when this happens like nothing goes off
it's no no computers are affected No TVs? No no Wi Fi
seems to be affected by this. It's only the lights and in
sometimes you can hear it if you have like a fan running you'll
hear it slow down a little bit.
Adam Curry: Yeah, that that you what that is that's a frequency
issue. So frequency Yeah, so this is an you know, the guy
that talks about this is Steven b He knows about this stuff. But
the grid by itself has to stay in a pretty tight frequency
range. And this is why you know wind power is not that great
because or even solar power because once everything's on and
the sun is shining or the wind is blowing, then there's too
much power. You can't put too much power into the grid it has
to be regulated, which is coincidentally why a lot of
Bitcoin miners are doing well with the with the grid operators
because like Hey, I got all this power. What am I gonna do with
it? Why don't I give it on the cheap instead of shutting it
down given on the cheap to these bitcoin miner guys. So it has to
be within the certain frequency range. And if it dips out Little
too low. It's bad all around, but that's what you're seeing.
And so an electric motor, you'll notice that immediately, because
based on cycle cycles cycle,
Dave Jones: the AC cycle is the 60 cycles, there's maybe
dropping like
Adam Curry: 59 59.9 or something. It's a real tight
range.
Dave Jones: So that all right, that limb, limb, okay, so I
think I understand what you're saying. It's not a voltage
problem is amperage problem or anything like that? It's the
it's the frequency with which the current alternates from
positive to negative. That's
Adam Curry: my understanding. I'm not the guy to give the real
answer. But you know, the yes, that's, that's what and all the
grid stuff is measured in the frequencies, not the amount of
power. Hmm, yeah, I know. There's another guy. Yes, sir.
Ben, the protector of megawatts. He's the guy that can tell you
exactly how that works.
Dave Jones: That sounds like a power company issue again. Oh,
yeah. Oh, yeah. Totally. To me,
Adam Curry: but not not necessarily your transformer
that could be Yeah, that can be at the plant or they're
switching stuff over or don't have enough. I mean, we have
that happen here in Texas. Not because our grid sucks, which
we've been sigh opt into believing.
Dave Jones: Yeah, well, everything sucks in Texas. Yeah.
Well, it's
Adam Curry: because, you know, obviously, they want to
nationalize our grid. And we're quite happy with our grid, but
ERCOT, which is it's, it's basically an exchange, and every
five minutes, they update the prices and people have, you
know, the some of that stuff has been featured out five years in
advance. And that's really what happened with this snowpocalypse
is no one was making any money. It's like, I'm not going to turn
on this coal plant or anything, because, you know, it takes
three days to warm up. And I don't know if I'm gonna need it.
And then the snow hits like, Oops, and we couldn't flip on
gas, because the law says it has to go to the consumers first. So
it was it was it's really basically the earth the Enron
guys. They're running. They're running the exchange, not the
grid, but the exchange where the electricity is all
commercialized. So
Dave Jones: they all they all left Enron, and
Adam Curry: then when they went to prison, no, one or two guys
died in prison or in prison, whatever. And then the other
guys yeah, they all went to to ERCOT. No, it's horrible. It's
horrible.
Dave Jones: It's great gig if you can get it, I guess. Yeah,
Adam Curry: no kidding. No kidding. But anyway, yeah,
Dave Jones: I was looking for squirrels laying across the
powerline outside or something. You know, like
Adam Curry: you said, dripping dripping squirrel juice down on
another lock world's squirrel SAP? That's what we call it.
Yes. Business in the business. Oh, man. Yeah, I wanted to I
wanted to mention something. Something really powerful
happened in my life, something powerful has been happening for
a while. You know, I've kind of turned I got a lot of not a lot.
But I get a significant amount of really ugly emails from time
to time, depending on the topic no agenda discusses. Could we
never take sides or anything like that? We're just trying to
deconstruct media. People get outraged and spawn up and, and
being a new Christian. Yes. Jesus freak, alert. I've, I've
resorted to instead of replying like, Well, what do you think
you are? You are I'm blocking you. So anything like that? I
just say is hey, man, I'm sorry. You seem angry about this. I
don't think I can help anything. But I pray for you. So it's
either you know, I will say I hate to say that, or I forgive
you for saying this to me.
Dave Jones: This is this is the deal, though. This is not that
much different. The old Adam. I've been on. I've been CC on
angry emails.
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. You remember the old Adam? Yes. And
Dave Jones: your reply all would just be like, Why are you so
angry bro?
Adam Curry: Well, but I've replied differently to depending
on the level. But I've really been very consistent. I mean, it
i and i actually, if I write that email before I hit send, I
pray for that person real quick. Doesn't that believe me? It's
not a long drawn out thing. But it just but it's, it's well met.
And what's been happening is when the I mean, I've been
getting emails, they're like, Screw you, you have begged that
and I'll say and I'll reply like that. And within an hour, oh,
man, I'm sorry, you know, personal let me be completely
transformed. So when when Bitcoin magazine didn't publish
my piece, and instead came out with this whole noster the
noster is going to save the music business article, but in
the end, we're talking about the printed magazine. You know,
they'd never reached out to me they would you know, they were
where's the article? Where's the article? Where's it unless sent
the article. And then, you know, after all, this badgering and I
wrote it and I got Tina involved and they didn't publish it and I
was disappointed but I wound up sending the guy an email, which
he never responded to, but I said, Now, I forgive you for
this and not getting back to me and not publishing it. It's
okay. Um, that was, that was literally what I said, in the in
Steven B's emporium of apps telegram group extravaganza,
which has multiple channels. You know, people were mad about
this. So a couple of couple of our guard 2.0 people who were
like, screw these guys. And I said, No, no, just I named
Dave Jones: Spencer, possibly.
Adam Curry: Or Libra. And I said, Yeah, I forgive them. It's
okay. It's all going to be alright, and then moved on. And
lo and behold, now it's on page 80. So yeah, wasn't top of mind.
But in the new Bitcoin magazine, the printed edition, it
appeared, I haven't seen it yet. It appears they've printed my
article. And I just want to say amen, hallelujah. Because it
worked. It worked. Witness preach. I had not expected that.
And I'm really happy because I think it comes at a great time.
Where, tell
Dave Jones: me did is it a date, there's their digital version?
Or is it print only right now?
Adam Curry: I think it's print only. And then once it's out,
and I think it takes several weeks, which is kind of good.
It'll be a couple of weeks until this measles pops up. And this
was mainly about a short history of I've published it on the on
our on podcast index. So so you can find it probably somewhere.
You know, it's a brief history of 2.0. You know, what kind of
what happened and then value for value as it pertains to the
Lightning Network. Of course, I had a heavy Bitcoin slant on it,
because that's what Bitcoin magazine is about. And then I
spoke specifically about music, and about the wallet switching
technology. So it's perfect for kind of the ramp up that it
actually would have been a little too early. I think. In
hindsight, now, we have a lot of tracks that are available,
people have their apps that are doing value time splits. And
with a little luck with and I say luck, this Ainsley Costello
just loud concert will stream live in the in a lit stream on
2.0. And I say a little luck because people aren't doing it
yet. It's all noster was that noster stuff right now. But I
know that Dobby das and I think Alberto are trying to work with
those guys and get it on a live stream.
Dave Jones: Okay. I'm gonna be honest and say that I do not
have seen the talk of that going on. But I'm not up to speed on
what's happening there.
Adam Curry: Okay, so this is first avenue in Minneapolis. But
this is all mostre people. So we're if it's gonna work is
because we make it work, not because they care about us. I'm
going to be truthful about it. Yeah, no, I
Dave Jones: think you'd be an honest You're not bad.
Adam Curry: No, I'm not being mean. That's fine. You mean they
have their mission?
Dave Jones: I don't care about them either. So
Adam Curry: we're, you know, so So we're all pretty excited
about the most recent pod con Mexico that rss.com put
together, and did it live lit live in video which Fantasticks?
Everybody could stream sets? You could boost in real time.
Dave Jones: And did you see Alberto's article, in fact, I've
linked
Adam Curry: to it in, in our show notes. It says here, how to
stream a live event in a podcast interact with the audience in
real time and exchange value.
Dave Jones: Yes, excellent honor. So
Adam Curry: that's a great article that these guys are not
following. And but there's this confusion, you know, it's like
there's a lot of excitement around lightning, and value for
value. Now, they are calling this a value for value event,
which is valid because you can zap while you're watching, but
there's no streaming it's not going to work in the apps. And
hopefully, I think dovie Das, who has just been driving a lot
of this I think he's trying to work it out with them to to get
a stream that we can put lit into the apps I hope that
Dave Jones: you can zap as long as you're not zapping from
mutiny wallet to the Zeus wallet, then then you're out of
luck because those guys because the mutiny wallet people blocked
anybody from using their wallet to zap anybody who's using Zeus.
So no, it was really I didn't know there's yes, we're seeing
zap censorship emerge.
Adam Curry: Oh, really?
Unknown: I'm not kidding me. On Nike.
Adam Curry: It's not that it's incompatible. It's been blocked.
Dave Jones: Mutiny, my understanding is that mutiny
wallet claimed that they are we're getting payment failures,
or HDLC.
Adam Curry: Timeout
Dave Jones: timeouts. And so they just blocked Zeus.
Adam Curry: So there's a bigger thing here. There's a bigger
thing going on. I don't think it's malicious, but I think it's
ignorance. And I would hate to see but you know, to have two
artists that that the pod Kasen 2.0 Music podcasts of supported
Ainsley and, and just loud, not be exposed to the full audience,
which I believe is really providing the most, the most
love and the most value, which is through our apps. So I'm, I'm
just hoping that we that we get this set up. But I mean, I can
tell because I've been in some conversations, and I said, Look,
I'm just gonna answer questions and point you to the right
people. I'm too old and too tired to jump in and go nuts
about this stuff. Because I've been around this, this thing. I
mean, I did the first cyber cast from the Grammys in 1996. You
know, I brought a T one line into the Shrine Auditorium, I'm
not doing this anymore. But
Dave Jones: and so that you're not being an infrastructure. No,
I'm
Adam Curry: not doing that anymore. But you know, here's
all the people who are enthusiastic, and they know how
to do it, and they can get it set up. So I really hope that
that works out. Because it would just be it would just be a shame
if it didn't happen. And it's really, it's because there's
confusion when people hear value for value. Oh, yeah, that would
that's value for value. You know, and lightning, yes. But
it's really two different things. So, again, I think that,
you know, the guide from Alberto was fantastic. And dovie Das,
you know, he's been the first one out of the gate to turn RSS
blue.com into a full service, you know, integrate the music,
he understands all the moving parts, I hope that he can pull
it off. And, and he should take a split for that. For sure. But
overall, there's a, we just want to acknowledge that there's
really a lot of distance between what Nasir is doing and what
we're doing. But from the outside, it all kind of looks
the same. And it's just go ahead.
Dave Jones: Now, I was going to ask what, how? So if they're
gonna live stream this? I mean, not sure doesn't have a
mechanism for that, does it?
Adam Curry: I mean, I don't know if you go no, it's no, it's it's
called Zap Dot stream is basically a streaming service,
not unlike peer tube, I don't know if it uses peer to button
or the hood. And they just pop up a button on the screen and
you click on a mountain, then it opens your wallet. I mean, it's,
it's just a string, you could use do this on YouTube, and put
and put a thing in there. So there's no per minute streaming,
there's no booster grams. It's just it's just a zap with a
name.
Dave Jones: That's, I mean, we know that based on what the
Dominus developer said that 99% of people who use these who use
the app didn't stop using it. There's the other audiences is
limited, me, you're just gonna be limited. If you're if you're
restricting your audience to noster to just a bunch of, you
know, well go
Adam Curry: go look at zapped dot stream and tell me what the
max amounts are that you see on these live streams, you know,
1200 SATs, you know, just not receiving a lot. It's, you know,
it's not the culture yet. And certainly not of live stream. So
anyway, does break since you mentioned the J 65, the
developer of noster. So when he interesting love on Twitter,
posts, idea, use noster for recording track, contract
splits, a lightning Spotify client pulls the splits, which
are cryptographically signed by the tracks, artists, the client
stream sites in real time to them, basically, podcasting 2.0
But for music and over Noster, it's so much better. And so
that's just a it's just ignorance. He doesn't know he's
working on his thing. He doesn't know what we're doing over here.
I agree. People jumped in and went, and I don't and it's fine.
I I wish there was a way that we could integrate Nasr. I haven't
seen it yet. But right now, when I read this from the main
developer of the main app, I got it declared noster is a solution
looking for a problem. The URL is like if if if the main
developers already trying to think of other ways to make it
interesting, that are already kind of solved and working fine.
Then you got to start asking yourself questions. And it hurts
the overall system because people were shocked. Shocked, I
tell you, so learn that. Not only has Mike Newman been the
guy adding wave Lake feeds to the index, but then, you know,
worse the wave the wave? Yeah, the wavelet. Michael from wave
Lake. He said, Well, it looks like the artists are adding it
themselves. So we're not going to do that automatically. It's
low priority for us. So he realized. I know but he doesn't
know it either. So they've deprecated the priority of
basically hitting the pod ping.
Dave Jones: As it was Mike Newman, who we who we lovingly
refer to as the shell script. Yeah. Doing it that was doing
this one, but you're like one butthole
Adam Curry: Yeah, so what's going to happen is eventually
Mike is going to get tired of it, or whatever. And then, you
know, and artists are going to be disappointed.
Dave Jones: I'm already tired of it on Mike's behalf. Me too, My
Adam Curry: finger hurts like now.
Dave Jones: This is, uh, so
Adam Curry: I just want to, there's that we there's no way
really we can integrate. But when it comes to certain things
everybody wins. If we're a little more open and, and, and
include everything. Does that make sense?
Dave Jones: Yeah, this kind of fits into, into some things that
I kind of noted, which, you know, Todd, after the last show,
Todd Cochran popped into the mastodon and said, you know,
hey, I don't understand why in the world activity, pub would be
even a priority or a big deal. And I've been working on it, you
know, off and on all week. I've made, I've made progress. A lot
of it is not visible. But it's, this is one of those things
where progress on this is going to be like, molasses not
watching as dry. Maybe not that. It's, it's like, it's like
nothing changes. And then lots of things change. And it's
because you have to have lots of things in place before any of
the things work. But you have to dispatch spend a lot of times a
lot of time writing code, in order to get one thing to work.
Adam Curry: Can I interrupt you for one moment? Just to read
Yes. Or something I thought was very, very telling. Because
there are people listening who really don't even know what
Macedon is. And, and the reason yes or no, or how it really
works. And and it's, I think it's worth just let me see if I
could find this real quick. I got a note and the question was
mastered on. Here it is. Sorry for the dummy question. I'm
super confused by Mastodon, I have the app on my phone,
perhaps at your suggestion, yes, within an account, which is
always how I start, meaning recreating a precedence and
something new. I can't tell what or where this app lives is that
a nostra thing? Is podcast indexed of social justice? Your
community, not a broader Mastodon community? Can one
boost here? As it relates to private postings? Does that mean
just one person tagged and it's private? So the concept of the
fediverse is not even known to a lot of people didn't know the
the basic, federated distributed nature of Macedon?
Dave Jones: That's interesting.
Adam Curry: Well, you know, we're so it's so natural for us
to know this stuff. But here's someone who's on podcast index
dot social, and it's trying to understand, so how does this
thing work? What is it? Is it just just you guys? And then,
and I think the app actually hurts to be honest. I don't
think apps make it very apparent to see the full spectrum on a
website. So just bear that in mind that people don't really
understand that. It is, in fact, in effect, a bit like noster.
Except you you have an account on a relay and your relay talks
to other relays. Maybe that's a simple way of explaining it. But
even Yeah, even though I'm sorry to interrupt you, no, no, please
do even the noster main guy from Damas T said, I should look this
up, he said about podcasting. 2.0. And this this, I had to I
actually responded to him like what How can you say this? He
says, for podcasting. nostre has the benefit, that it's easier to
query than RSS and doesn't require you to run a server.
Like someone has to run a server somewhere. What is a relay? It
Dave Jones: doesn't require you to run a server either. I mean,
like, blood if you want to simplify it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean,
like, if you want to just just, I mean, everything has to be
served. Yeah,
Adam Curry: it has to come from so it's not like magic. This you
know, that relays are servers and that they're not just magic
things that that make the noster stuff shoot around poorly.
Dave Jones: You don't you don't write your RSS feed. You know,
you don't write your your in pub on your front door and everybody
sees it. It has to be served by a computer.
Adam Curry: Well, to be fair, he's built something called
noster dB. And his app is now you know, you have your app and
it takes up 10 gigabytes of space because you're basically
your own relay. I mean, this is yes, this is what this is what
he's doing. Well,
Dave Jones: this says Why is why is that was activity pub
important? Scale? You can ask the activity pub, as in this is
going to be one of the I can't I found out this week that I can
there are certain there are there are I'm trying to figure
out how to frame this, it is difficult to convince people of
your vision like that is you have, you have specifications
and you have protocols. Those are easy to talk about. And like
those are easy to discuss. And you can hash them about and
that's why people do because you can. It's easy to talk in though
in those terms. When you broaden that out a bit and talk about
and talk about vision of a thing. Like, I'm not talking now
about a specific protocol anymore.
Adam Curry: You're talking to a guy who had to convince the
world that an iPod was for radio shows.
Dave Jones: Thank you, thank you, thank you, you you, you
know this fight because you had to fight to convince Dave
Weiner, what you were what you were fighting to convince him of
let me just I want to reef I want to like reframe that whole
beginning of RSS and podcasting, as the beginning of podcasting
in RSS. What if you go back and you think about it, what you
were trying to convince him of was not really a change to the
protocol, you were trying to convince him of a vision you
had, this change would enable Yes. And because you saw a
future in which this thing that you had thought of produced a
particular outcome or a particular result, and you could
see it, and you can say in your, you essentially had a syllogism
where you're like, if, if, if one, if A is true, and B is
true, then C will be true. And you solve the C, but there's a
lot but it's very difficult sometimes to convince people
that A is true, AND, and OR B is true. Or a plus b will equal see
if that gets lost along the way. And it's not because people are
stupid, like No, not at all. We had a car you know, we had a
long eventually just bailed out of this thread on on the
mastodon server, about the music about the media, the medium tag
equals video. And it was a long thread where you know, James and
some other people were saying I just don't understand why this
is necessary. And and I'm very you know, I'm understanding of
that, because it's difficult to to try to explain to somebody
see this. See I'm even falling victim to this.
Adam Curry: Well, first of all, I had to look up the word
syllogism, which I thought might be venereal disease or
something. But it will make you go crazy. Deductive scheme of a
formal argument consisting of a major and or minor premise, and
a conclusion.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so if I did, yeah, yeah, the basic is a you
know, a, like, if if statement, a statement one is true, and
statement two is true, then statement three, there you go.
There you go. And but but in this particular words involved
are important though, because typically the way this syllogism
is, is talked about is, if statement one is sound. That's
the word that's used, if it's sound, and statement two is
sound, then statement three will be a logical conclusion from
those two. So that is the set and the sound has to do with
your reasons. You know, and as in I fall victim to this and we
all do, it's a natural way of thinking to think okay, if I
explain in say statement, and I say this, and that is a sound
thing, this a sound statement to me, and I also say this, and
then I show a conclusion that everybody else will see what I
mean and agree to it. That's not the way that it was not the way
the world goes. No, no book because it's a sim. And the
reason is simple, is because we don't see people don't see in
the same frame of reference. Like that. When you when I have
if I have a vision of something, what I'm trying to show is not
real. What I'm trying to show is the thing that I see in my head
and that's not is the same as a logical conclusion. It's a it's
a vision. It's not an argument. And so you can argue all day
long, and you're just talking past each other. Yeah, you what
you have to do in this is we've taught, you know, I think we've
talked about this before, as some point where you have to do
this while I appreciate it Alberto's an RSS, Ben and
Alberto. They're just diving going in doing it doing it. Yes.
You know, I think I've said before, when you can't come to
an agreement. After talking about talking things out for a
while, even an open source project, it's time to stop
talking and go build some stuff. Because that's the way that you
express the vision in concrete terms. You build a thing, then
people can see it. And you no longer have to try to explain it
because it's right there in front of them. But I'd say this
Adam Curry: whole project is its roots are based on that. And
props to Stephen B for building sovereign feeds, because every
vision that was discussed whether it was ours, or someone
else's, came to fruition, because we could put it into the
feed.
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah. That Yeah, exactly. That's exactly
right. So like, in the context of the medium, disco, we're kind
of all over the place, but I don't care. In the context of
the medium discussion, this is,
Adam Curry: uh, oh, oh, this, this is, you didn't notice that
Adam stayed away from this one. I'm like, oh, yeah, I
Dave Jones: appreciate that about the, so the tags
themselves must be, they must be definite. And I'm trying to use
terms here. Very specifically. They have the tags that we use
have to be definitive, so that apps know what to do with the
content that the tag is referencing. Like, so just, I'm
not going to make a big a big thing about medium and video
here. But I'm just trying to exemplify something. The MIME
types. Don't do that. MIME types express a format? Or playard?
Adam Curry: Really format? I always always thought it MIME
type defines what player needs to be used what? What was the,
in the old Unix world it was the not the dot something dot?
There's a file that determines what player will open for a MIME
type.
Dave Jones: Yeah, like, you're talking about, like a protocol
scheme. Yeah. Yeah. And so the, the, the MIME type, or the file
type, let's just, you know, whatever video, let's just
generalize it heavily and say video audio, that just tells you
what the format is, it doesn't tell you anything about the
content. And so the meat, the medium tag is trying to teh is
trying to express express a, an opinion about the content. And
so the there there's, it's, it's a hot it's one layer up from
what is happening at the actual format level. And this is a,
this is a thing you can explain over and over and over. And it's
not, it's easy to misunderstand. Because the problem is not a
misunderstanding it. The problem is, we need to see a thing, we
need to see the problem. The problem with medium equals video
is that no apps are doing anything with it. Peer tube is
the closest example of a medium equals video player. But it's
native. That's what it does anyway, in is just producing
that. But that's the experience the YouTube experience, the peer
tube experience. There's no podcast apps that do that
experience. So it's very difficult to understand what the
sort of vision of the tag of that of that particular medium
in the tag is. And it's poorly named, because we're limited in
the English language we got, you know, we're trying to express
the thing that's difficult to express. So the all around, I
appreciate the confusion. I understand it. I know what that
happens in. You know it, but it's it's the thing that if you
take a step back, you also Okay, okay. This is also the reason
that Todd comes in and says, I don't understand this activity
post me know, what was this a big deal? What was the point of
this? The same type of thing. There's a vision here if we you
know what I see in my head and this is the best. I'm going to
start talking about protocol. Just for a second start talking
about what I see in my head is that RSS and activity pub are
like peanut butter and jelly. They they fit together so well.
Because they they come from the same ethos, sort of a, a, a
shared push pull, like polling sort of polling and posting sort
they work the way the web does
Adam Curry: publish subscribe, is that fair to say have
subscribed? Yeah,
Dave Jones: publish subscribe, which is exactly what RSS is.
It's a pub. RSS is Pub Sub. Activity Pub is Pub Sub. These
are they they just activity pub does it with JSON over HTTP
requests, RSS does it with XML over GET requests, that it's
really the same thing. And so since they're so close together,
we can merge we can we can merge is not the right word I want to
use, we can take these two worlds, and they will fit
together well. And then we can bring these these things, we can
bring a sense of community to RSS, that's almost native. Like
the issue with the you know, Michael, and when we talked to
Michael and Sam a few months ago, or maybe a couple of months
ago, I had a phone call with them from WaveLight. And they
told us this, you know, an anecdote about how a musician I
forget who it was, and said, Well, okay, I've published my
music to wave Lake. But I don't do i Where do I tell people go
like to interact with like me and the mute and like, there's
no like landing zone where, where I go in now now I can be
part of something that social that has to do with
Adam Curry: this is exactly the same that I've heard from an
artist saying, okay, I get this, but then where's my fan base?
Where's my community? Yeah, same thing.
Dave Jones: Exactly. So you have if you have a mess, or if you're
a musician, and you have a fediverse account, you're on a
mastodon somewhere. And you also have published your music
through RSS. If we bridge these two things together, you now
have a in your, you just inherited a landing zone, in a,
in a social community aspect, without having to do anything
else. Yeah, it just, it comes to you, instead of you having to go
to it. Like all of a sudden, you have you just you got air
dropped into a party with your content in it. So I think that's
important for RSS because we've always tried to use these things
like you know, in their good services, you know, a pod page
and these things where it's like, okay, I need a place for
my or you know, own your own your own.com but nothing those
are really just static. Yes, pages for you. They're not
they're not social.
Adam Curry: Well, he if I if I can give an example of of the
disconnect and connect at the same time. So because we have
cross app comments still enabled, I still publish doesn't
really matter if it's not taken off, but I still publish that
way. So before every podcast I do, by will post a post on no
agenda social.com So I'm looking here no agenda episode 16 1608
woke up dead not it should actually be the the lit tag when
we start go on. But it's not I do it out when I publish
everything. And because it is posted to our Mastodon server,
that and that's not automatic, you know, I've got to post it.
And I'm gonna get the URL, put the URL and cross app comments.
There is you know, there's anywhere from five to 25 posts
or replies under that post that community knows Oh, here, I can
talk about it. But the connections are poor. And I'm
not really going there myself anymore, because it's not this
automatic meshed in peanut butter jelly experience. And
it's just the post is not really an integrated. The RS is not
coming from the RSS feed is coming from me copy pasting
stuff in. Does that make sense?
Dave Jones: Yeah, it does make sense and so like that's in
that's the experience that this will end up resulting in is that
you won't the podcasters get that for free. And they they
will get they get an audience they have they have their
followers, their subscribers and RSS. Now they can have their
followers. You Who are essentially essentially also
subscribing to the RSS, but through the activity pub bridge,
so that they, the the episode essentially and lands in the
place they already are. And then the party starts there. So
Adam Curry: I like as landing zone as an example. Let's take
your pod page example because I use pod page for two shows.
Basically, if pod page hooked up activity pub to their back end,
it would be dynamite because they got everything in there.
They got all of these all these things and now they're doing a
lot of 2.0 tags from the from the feed. You know, that would
be a perfect place so they know how to present an episode and a
podcast but now give right now is because it's funny because I
went there today just to look around some of the new features
and I see all these people signed up for my mailing list
and like I've a mailing list apparently tops up and there
must be 100 people registered for the mailing list and but yet
there's it says oh, here's these links. You can import this
mailing list into these other programs. I'm like, No, I want
to be right here. I want I want to do from right where I am
here. I've got all these people they've opted in. How can I
communicate to them now right here on this page.
Dave Jones: The magic of the activity pub. outbox is
underutilized because Mastodon in its stupidity does not
backfill posts from the outbox.
Adam Curry: Explain that to me, I was laughing about the
stupidity comment. I'll explain
Dave Jones: you. Yes. When Mastodon when you go to
somebody's profile, if you look, if you search for them, pull
them up. Follow them. Mastodon by default does not look at that
actors outbox to get all of its old posts and show them to you
that the the only way a server gets posts is if somebody else
has already gotten them. And so the but the outbox holds, it's
like an RSS feed, it holds everything. Everything that
you've ever posted is in your outbox, and you can just go in
and pull it. So like,
Adam Curry: ah, forever, it's just in there or less pruned, I
guess, oh, no, it's
Dave Jones: just there. Like it's just there. Like every if
you go to like podcast index dot social, slash users slash Adam
slash outbox, you will see all of your everything you post is
there. So you can have you can read that data and just backfill
onto a page. So the, you know, like pod page or somebody, any
of these apps that do this sort of thing, can if you have you,
if you have your social interact in in your feed, you know, just
defining your defining your activity pub user account, they
can just go grab your outbox, and it just, it's there. So
there's just so many integration points here, that makes so much
sense. And again, I'm not going to try to convince, I'm not
going to go to the mat to try to convince everybody of these
visions, because the vision will be expressed to the things that
we ultimately build. And then, that I'm happy to talk about it.
But I don't want to risk making people angry or anything like
that, through through arguments. I think we we all just kind of
state our state our case, express our visions as best we
can and then we build something. And then it either works or it
doesn't. You know, I think ultimately, that's what it comes
down to. And I think that the like, that's that's where
that's, you know, back to Alberto been doing the lit
thing. That's what they did, essentially, they're like they
took they saw enough of the vision and they're like, Okay,
well, I'm gonna do this. And now, through the doing of the
thing, the vision became clear and coherent to them enough to
where Alberto's like, I can write a whole article about
this, right? It's in showing it and if you read that article, it
is an expression of the lit vision. It's probably the best
one I've ever read. Better than this better than myself stack
that I wrote about it a year ago. You know, I think I think
this is all very instructive with because it directly relates
to the nostra thing noster voice versus RSS, which doesn't, you
know, to me seems like a silly battle, but whatever. But if we
express if we express these things, in terms of here, let me
let me let me just keep going down this rabbit hole for a
second. Like one of the diff most difficult things that I've
run Then two so far, and this is really the last step, once this
step is done in the activity pub bridge, then we're kind of down.
It's all kind of downhill from there. And that's a signing HTTP
request with a cryptographic signature. The activity pub
requires is, you know, and actually, I don't think the spec
really requires it. I think it's and they get say it's in the
spec. But I think Mastodon is the one that made it sort of
mandatory, if you want to play with them, which you have to
the, the an HTTP HTTP request, that is asking for some action.
So for instance, when I've when you follow somebody with an
activity pub, what I follow is, is a post request, if I follow
you, I'm sending a post request to your inbox. By cast index dot
social slash user slash Adam slash inbox, it's a post
request, with a JSON body, this that of type follow. That
request has to be, quote, unquote, signed with a
cryptographic signature is an RSA Sha 256 signature. So it
requires hashing the body, excuse me hashing the headers of
the HTTP request, then taking that hash, including it in the
body, hashing the entire thing together, and then signing it
with your private key. So first, first step, this past week was
determining what signatures are going to be scheming the keys,
public keys, private keys, you know, last week, we discussed,
you know, just read the whole search of the whole bridge, just
use the same keys or whatever, no, we're not going to do that.
What we're doing is, every time some if somebody searches,
somebody hits an actor's inbox, so they hit an inbox for, excuse
me, an actor document for a podcast, it's going to add that
moment is going to generate a set of keys, save them in the
database. So now every podcast will get its own set of keys.
The those keys will then be used to sign requests to accept a
follow. So in the case where I follow you, my instance of Matt,
my Mastodon instance is going to send your is going to send an
HTTP POST request with follow to your Macedon instance, then
yours is going to respond with a type of except so it's gonna
say, you know, hey, I want to follow you follow except this
accepting of this exception request accept request has to be
signed. So that except request is what we're working on working
on signing, right now, we get to the point where we're into
cryptographic libraries. And that's what I was talking about
in in Macedon this week, where once you get here, you're you're
in the land of wrapped, uh, libraries from other languages
that that have the most confusing documentation on
Adam Curry: the land, Red Dragons and demons is there.
This
Dave Jones: way, there'll be you know, what, there be dragons or
whatever. Like, it really is bad in the exam, then I'm tying this
all back into the example into where we talked about the
vision. Because when you can see plenty of example code. The
example code may be in a written in a way that is completely
foreign to anything that you are used to. Cryptographic libraries
have this. They have the strangest ways of expressing
things. I'm a declarative programmer. And I don't mean
that in the sense of declarative versus reactive. I mean, like,
in the sense that I'm just like, mostly, line one, line two, line
three, line four, line five and being like, I'm just blow
through a thing, a break everything down into the
smallest bite sized chunks, and string them together.
Cryptographic libraries tend to not do the head. They do very
strange control flow. And so you have to every time you you're
looking at a spec, you're looking at a spec that's right
in front of you. And it says it says here's how you do this. And
you're just scratching your head like What the eff Am I looking
at? Like, you have to to implementing a protocol is
always an exercise I in reading and reverse engineering, you
have to read the spec to understand it enough to begin
the process of doing the thing, but that's not enough. It'll
never be enough. You'll never blindly write a rhotic write
things to a spec. Step two is always go see if it works.
Adam Curry: And now I'll just guess here that activity pub
spec. You know, bang equals Macedon. Like there's, it's not
the same thing.
Dave Jones: It is. I don't know if it is. I can't. I can't say
one way or another. I think it mostly conforms to the spec. But
I think they have their own. I think the only difference is the
headers that it requires you to, to digest. So like, I
Adam Curry: guess, I guess I mean that differently. I mean,
that in the realm of like, what Mastodon does is not necessarily
what you can do with activity pub, the same way someone looks
at Mastodon and says, Hmm, what is this, like, this is a closed
off thing. You know, there's no way for a new user to come in
and know that, you know, what that what the other servers feed
is? Or that you can follow someone from another server.
There's just no way for someone to see that and understand
what's going on under the hood. Is it one big thing? Is that one
big giant database somewhere? That's kind of what I mean?
Yeah,
Dave Jones: I think you're right. Yeah, I think that's a
good Yeah, I think that's good. Yeah, they the Yeah, cuz Macedon
has this weird thing where all the HTTP, all the HTTP requests
are required to be signed. But how do you talk to one first,
without knowing one of those initial signatures, that you
can't verify things that you something you've never talked to
before? Right? It was because you don't have the key in
advance. Anyway. So there's, there's these there's always a
little weird things about mastodon. The, the, the way, the
reverse engineering part, is sort of how you take your like,
you write the thing, you try it, you see it break, and then you
and then you're like, Huh, that's weird. Why did that
happen? You go back, you look at the spec. You're like, Okay,
well, maybe I misunderstood that they gave me this block of stuff
I'm supposed to hash, maybe, maybe this block of stuff was
just for demonstration purposes, maybe, maybe the line breaks in
it aren't actually supposed to be there. So you take out the
line breaks. And then you rehash it, and you redo this thing
again, you'll still fail. You go through this, you over over over
and over and over until you finally get something that
almost works. And then you see Ah, okay, this is what I was
missing. And by the time you're finished, what you have is your
version of the spec.
Adam Curry: Your marriage is broken. Your kids have left the
house,
Dave Jones: yet power surges.
Adam Curry: Realizing, Kaczynski, you're living in a
shack.
Dave Jones: Big old beard. Yeah, so that I'm just trying to
express this idea that this is an overarching thing that we
deal with in all realms of of programming, namespace respect,
development, interpret, just interpersonal trying to work
things out between different parties, like with with RSS, and
mass, and noster. All of these things suffer from this same
sort of fundamental problem, which is, you have wishes,
there's a spec and a vision. And then there's your understanding,
and my understanding. And those, those are all four separate
completely separate things. And there's hopefully a Venn diagram
where there's some overlap. And you look you try to live for,
you know, open source software. It is hard open source projects
are an attempt to live in the middle of the intersection of
Venn Diagram of many different things. And if you do it well,
and don't get burned out, and live there as much as possible,
good things happen. If you end up living in the edges where
there's no overlap, you either leaves the project or nothing.
Nothing fruitful happens. Or you just end up talking to yourself
on a Google group all day. I love Venn diagram. If you if you
want this my so I brought a whole basket here that
Adam Curry: I saw. I haven't listened to him yet. I'll just
I'll just grab one and I'll just grab one BAM magic. Yes. See?
Beautiful.
Dave Jones: Thank you, Carrie. Well, let
Adam Curry: me ask you a question. So not going to Okay,
so the programming side, I barely hung on by a thread and I
understand what you're saying. But of course, I get lost the
vision part, making this peanut butter jelly sandwich work
perfectly. Is your vision now? Because they started off with
the desire for certification of the index. Does this mean that
everybody can have their own part of the index all of the
index? Do I, as a podcaster? Have? Have my community activity
problems, specifically staying away from Mastodon server type
names? Is it something that I have an account on through an
ISP? Is it both? Is it can I will I be following podcast
through this and my app actually talks to my own index? Can by
going too far?
Dave Jones: There that's I think, ultimately, the vision is
to is to fortify things to the point. But I guess we say four
to five things and decentralized. By
Adam Curry: definition, with edification, to me is is
decentralization.
Dave Jones: I guess I'm deep meaning it is like,
decentralizing the actual ownership. So that there because
what I think what we eventually want is, like different. You
know, I mean, what we want is what I Potter was, where you own
your part of the directory on my part?
Adam Curry: Well, then what are we? Freedom controller? What are
you gonna buy? We're back to the freedom controller.
Dave Jones: I mean, it it really, we get I can, you know,
we can envision Jane know, James owning Australia, Sam owning it,
you know, Northern, you know, Western Europe. I mean, like,
that's what, like, I guess what we want, and what I mean, is
what I'm gonna say own, I mean, like, be actually authoritative.
Adam Curry: Well, hold on a second, because the just so
everyone understands. I potter.org was initially a world
outline, you'll have to look that one up. But it was the
concept of OPML, outline process process or markup language,
where you can use includes. And so I potter.org, the I made up
my own top level, which I did by geographic region, it could have
been by interest or anything. And I said, Okay, I'm looking
for someone from Australia, that actually Germany was probably
the first one or the Netherlands or whatever. But this person
would say, oh, I can do that. I'll maintain it for you. If
they would put an OPML file an outline on their own server
somewhere, which is part of the beauty and part the weakness, of
course. And then they would put underneath that some did it by
region of the country, some did it by interest group, there are
all these different all these different ways that people were
organize it. But it was, if you're familiar with gopher
spring back, Gopher, it was very similar to that where you just
it was just meant you click OK. Now I'm in Germany, click what's
in Germany, and the person in Germany might have said, Okay,
I'm including outlines from this guy. He's going to do all these
these types of podcasts. And this lady over there, she's
really good at tracking hobby podcasts. So she would maintain
that outline episode, there's no real defined structure. So it
never became like Yahoo was originally a directory with real
defined topics. But what was beautiful about it is you could
walk the tree. And so I built this really horrible script that
would walk the tree and go through everybody's node
overnight and sometimes took a really long time, especially if
it broke somewhere. And it would bring back what was new ale and
then I would pop that to the top of the stack and be so but it
was a very, I thought beautiful way to connect all podcast
together.
Dave Jones: It is it that is beautiful. And of course it
breaks. It breaks with scale. Same way DNS, like used to be
just a big a single file of names and IP addresses.
individually. It's like, okay, well, this has to become a
decentralized thing where everybody owns their own chunk
of DNS and serves it. That that's the same type of thing
that I think we are headed for. Wow, that's pretty big. I, I own
my like, we could probably do it to a certain extent, in an ugly
way quickly, which is not an attractive thing to do, and we
won't, but I mean, it could be done. If you hadn't listed
imagine right now you have seven people And one person runs an
index that handles feed IDs, zero through a million person
number to 1,000,001 through 2 million, you just had seven
different indexes. Oh, there's only there's less than 7 million
podcast in the database right now. So that would work. You
know, that's, that's too ugly, we're not going to do that. But
that's that's sort of the idea. There's like you, you shard the
database and have different ownership. And then it comes in
through various income points, those can be HTTP REST requests
to a front end API that just load balances to whichever
appropriate database is going on in the background. It could be,
you know, some sort of like DHT IPFS style gateway.
Adam Curry: So the way the way to bootstrap that, if I
understand you, is to have people start their individual
indexes, which are actually landing pages for these
podcasts, landing pages and community areas. So for
instance, all know, agenda stream podcast could be handled
by the no agenda social.com activity pub?
Dave Jones: Possibly, yeah, that could be one way to do it, I can
see a few ways to slice it, that would be one way. And that's if
this activity pub bridge is generic enough. And that's the
goal is that that's how
Adam Curry: you that's how you distributed. So have a repo
Yeah, and you just pull it in from so then you build a bridge
that comes in from the index into your activity pub server,
Mastodon or not. And that becomes a landing pages. And
Dave Jones: then you're, you're talking to the actual index
itself, right? Until you have until you
Adam Curry: eventually are getting your updates from the
RSS feed or pod paying or somewhere else.
Dave Jones: Yeah, because you can have you could have, for
instance, you know, and right now it talks to the index, but
maybe you want it to talk directly to your feed. And not
and not in not include not have to go do do an HTTP. That's,
that's right. Another way to do it. Because if you wanted to
have like your description, if you want to download, download
the repo, run it and have it just talk to the no agenda, RSS
feed, then you can have an activity pub.no agenda
notes.com. And it's just an interest in all that is is a
gateway to your feed. But somebody else may want to be a
gateway for the whole index. And they can do that
Adam Curry: too. Right. So right, right, right. Which is
and that's perfectly fine. Yeah,
Dave Jones: or blueberry, or Buzzsprout can run AP, you know,
activity pub that blueberry.com. And all their feet. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Which is actually probably a great way to do it.
But you can still have your own for your own feet and not have
to use their system, even though they'll have it. Right. And how
do you work with dupes? And in that case,
Dave Jones: no, don't stop talking. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
duplicates.
Adam Curry: duping guy. I mean, they come in to the to the email
box. And I can see something like two days old. And when I
get to it at the bottom my box like Oh, Dave didn't want to
deal with that one. Okay, I got it.
Dave Jones: It's I had a wish list of two things that I could
like that somebody would come up and say, you know, hey, I'm
going to do a volunteer to do X. One of them would be you can
write some stuff that would look at the downloadable weekly
database and try to find
Adam Curry: a do try to D dupe it. Right.
Dave Jones: And then another one would be write some code that
will monitor our API and send me a bad signal. If something goes
wonky. There's those are if anybody if anybody wants to pick
either of those two projects, I would love that. Like I would
love I need an early warning system like something that hits
some some of the critical API endpoints like search, and in
some of the other ones, like I don't every three or four
minutes doesn't have to it's very low volume. And just if
something doesn't return, right or if somebody would get a
timeout, then shoot like shoot me an email or a push
notification or something. Or or actually or post it to the
mastodon or send me like do some sort of automated alerting
because I'm not a need some of that.
Adam Curry: In the meantime, if you find a dupe just email it to
me
Dave Jones: in So that's the
Adam Curry: no I don't mind it, but I, what I have a problem
with is people saying, Hi, I'm John. There's three versions of
my podcast in the index, can you please remove the older two
ones? And thanks, you know, you got no URLs you know, is I can
usually discern if I think someone is the real deal of
their owner. That's, you know, that's usually pretty easy to
see even though it's not foolproof, but even then it's
like, well, I'm not gonna think I'm not even going to try and
think this is the older one now you tell me what you want
removed. I'll do that for you.
Dave Jones: But yeah, like I have a feed that it's missing
some of the episodes in it's called Daily News. Like Oh dude,
do you like 100 of those in the index? Come on,
Adam Curry: allow me to just read quick two quick booster
grams because I think it's, it's not the same but it may be and I
just so we're all on the same page. We don't get ahead of each
of ourselves. Assam Sethi boosting Hello Sam in in the UK,
cold cold UK. Can't believe you guys brought Cameron back. So
10,000 SATs from Sam Sethi pod fans was of course pod fans was
built from day one. To support activity streams. We use actor
verb object as the structure we have 30 plus verbs. And we can
track user behavior using gamification. And second, we
have a vision to export or publish people's activity like
RSS feeds or other apps can import this activity feed. This
is how we get Prasat boost clips, subscriptions follows
etc. That sounds like it's something else from what we're
talking about here. Or is it something that happens down the
road?
Dave Jones: I think it's I think it's a layer on top. I think
it's like fade, I think not fade but like like, that sounds like
layer two, like I'm I'm T I'm talking about like layer like a
layer one. Sort of a more fundamental. And then then that
sort of adding once you have that, that's that's in his app.
And then once you have this, then those you can always
Adam Curry: come alive, right? It's a little bit the cart
before the horse in this net.
Dave Jones: Well, now it's didn't then once we if we did
that, then we then we can talk to pod fans better, like
everything starts to jive, you know,
Adam Curry: right.
Dave Jones: Okay, that's if they understand what he's saying
correctly.
Adam Curry: Well, Sam's building his own little Emporium. He's
building his own podcast index over there. He's importing feeds
and validating them.
Dave Jones: He's compete. He's competing with Steven V for the
most the most apps. What? He's having a real hard time with
valid with feed validation. Yes. And what us? You know, my first
thought is, welcome to The Club, man. They're really
Adam Curry: we've been doing this for FinTech for 10 years.
12 years, Dave, we've been doing validation.
Dave Jones: It is a complete nightmare. It's the amount of
times
Adam Curry: that I that I would that I would be using the
freedom controller, certainly in the early days, early years, and
I say Hey, Dave, I subscribe to this feed. But you know, look at
how it shows up or it didn't show up. Or why is it doing
this? I mean, you built a set of rules that is astronomical.
Dave Jones: I have seen God I think I've seen every verb. What
do you think podcast feeds are bad. Go check out blogs. Yeah.
Oh my gosh, they are a nightmare. You will see. I've
seen an RSS feeds with 25,000 items in them. And they only
have a validate. Validate. There's no pub date. There's no
Gu ID. There's nothing except a title tag. And the title tag is
the exact same on every one.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just more fun. Oh, those are the
worst. Yeah, that's the worst. Like, Hey, can you for this
particular feed? Can you take this tag and put that in the
title tag to make it work? I remember. I remember all that.
Sure. Like, I can't discern anything from this thing. Yeah,
Dave Jones: the broader RSS ecosystem is it makes the
podcasting RSS ecosystem look tame. It does.
Adam Curry: The does. Well, I'm excited. I mean, I know it's a
slow build. And it's, it's infrastructure level. You know,
I'm kind of like Sam, I guess I'm like, okay, so what did we
do on the top here? I'm already at landing pages communities.
Oh, wow. But we got a lot of stuff to do under the hood
first, and then it seems like the first thing is figuring out
this cryptographic handshaking stuff, which is a is a complex.
Dave Jones: I'm close. I'm close on that. I've, uh, found a found
a few libraries that I can work with. And then I found you last
night that I want to, I think I found the last piece of the
puzzle that one of the Another problem with cryptic
cryptographic stuff is they return crazy types. So instead
of, they don't work like humans expect. So, for instance, we're
storing in the database, we're storing a public key and a
private key. And the, we're storing for simplicity to avoid
type messes. I'm just storing them as PEM encoded strings. So
that's like, you know how you Yeah, when you see the
signature, it says, like, begin RSA key, and it's got the
dashes, and then it has a big base 64 encoded thing. And then
at the end, it says End Mino string, like, that's just text.
So it's okay, we're just going to store that as text. And then
I'm going to convert that from the PEM encoded text back into a
private key so that I can then sign the request. Well, the
functions are the methods that return that do that. They were
they don't necessarily return a type that is in any way useful
for any other library. So they may return just an array an
array of bytes. And like, what do I do with this? I mean, like,
it's actually, it's not that it's not that it actually would
be pretty useful. It gets worse because they're what they return
is their own custom type, their own custom structure with all
these members, but what ends up really being at the heart, just
an array of bytes. And it's like, just give me the array,
just give me the array of bytes. I can do what I want to with it
that, you know, like, it's just the whole, it's, so I finally
think I figured out the chain that I need. And if I can get
that done, we may be able to actually start following some
podcasts next week.
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. This is this is moving quickly. That's
nice. One
Dave Jones: delay of this and is that, Nick? I'm long overdue to
get back to the namespace. Because there's a lot of there's
stuff happening there that that needs. chaperoning,
Adam Curry: you want to talk about that for a second I want
to talk about I can't
Dave Jones: I don't even know what's going on over there.
Adam Curry: All I know is that James Cridland still wants
podcasts images gone is no good. Get rid of it.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's what I didn't even know what tag you
wanted. Did. Wasn't
Adam Curry: that a drop in for iTunes? Wasn't that the whole
point of? No.
Dave Jones: Oh, no. So there's stuff happening over there that
I need to go to get into enough of dedicated next week to
Thanksgiving week is namespace week. I'm going to live in the
namespace. Oh, get up to speed on what's happening. There
Adam Curry: I go. So we'll have some hot namespace talk next
week in the boardroom. I'll alert the dancing girls.
Dave Jones: With Friday I have a family thing so I don't think I
can do the show Friday at normal time now. Okay. Well, we have
family thanksgiving and Fred.
Adam Curry: Well, who says you're allowed to have that?
Dave Jones: The lady that owns the house?
Adam Curry: It's called a Friendsgiving. Dave but keep up
with the kids will Yeah, it's Friendsgiving it's not
Thanksgiving. We can't thank anybody. It's just friends
giving.
Dave Jones: I think I think that's the case. Without that
we'll check. Well, we didn't figure that out on signal.
Adam Curry: Wow, okay. Well, that's a lot. That's a lot.
You've been you've been deep in that brother real deep.
Dave Jones: was yeah, I need air. See, was
Adam Curry: there anything else that that popped to the top of
the stack I'm trying to think of, of any things that we needed
to discuss I mean, right now I'm I'm still just riding high on
the music podcasting. I am so loving it. I'm seeing guys come
in this guy Cody from Kerrville he got Adobe Das has been just a
gem. You know, of course, he's is a pretty small with RSS.
blue.com. But, you know, I sent this guy radio guy said, All
right, now you got RSS blue.com You'll figure it out. I I can't
be doing this support for everybody. But you know, all of
a sudden, boom sidestream music podcasts on the 1000 really
helpful and really worked out and I got it all rockin. And
he's onboarding musicians. And we got to Steve Webb is
onboarding people from the 70s who own their music again, and
are just blown away like you know, they're, they have either
they're retired and have some some savings or, or they were
super successful, but they're just amazed to see that they
actually see value coming in as like, people are liking my
stuff. It's so beautiful to watch. It's just phenomenal.
Dave Jones: Is when you're when you're small, like Devadasi
you're shifty. Yes, you're agile. Then you can do whatever
you want. Pod
Adam Curry: home.fm is another one.
Dave Jones: Barry pushed a put Barry and a couple other people
had some stuff. They had some PRs on the main website that I
pushed to production today, so that should be caught
Adam Curry: up, though in the podcast app on the Apps page.
Cool. Cool. Yep. Yep. Yep. So
Dave Jones: that think that should be all good. Yeah, I
think I think the there's nothing I think of anything else
pressing time for
Adam Curry: nice. Oh my god. There we go. Um, time for Nisa
that always helps a little bit helps a little bit.
Dave Jones: Did you listen to that on the media thing? So the
without, I guess
Adam Curry: you mean, the one where they erase two years of
podcast history. Yeah, that nothing happened between this
and then I met apple that but what was really interesting to
me is it really solidified what had happened. I mean, we're in.
We're in a podcast winter. And I've been through a podcast
winter before. And it was really right after podcasting exploded
with it. It was an iTunes and what happened there is Twitter,
and Twitter. Because podcasting, what was happening in 2007 2678.
Of course, we had a couple of things. The main, I'd say beyond
the iPod was the iPhone that came out and beyond the
excitement around what could be done with that. But Twitter
didn't launch as odio as a as a podcast company, but launched as
a microblogging site, because that's truly what it was. And
was initially based on RSS feeds and got real smart, real quick,
like, you want to be the aggregator of all things feeds
and the publisher, goodbye, that's not going to work. It's
not efficient. That's hence that the fail whale. But then, you
know, remember what the reason why Twitter really hit big time
is because well, one, the genius of the term follow. Instead of
subscribe, they came up with follow, which I think was just
still genius genius idea because then you could follow Ashton
Kutcher and Demi Moore who were tweeting back and forth their
love affair was on Twitter. You know, the artists, they all
started to get on Twitter and had followings. And then when
you have follow up, this is all this is all the old world, you
know, like, oh, how many followers and how many likes and
it became this whole thing, and then Facebook and then YouTube
came? And, and I'd say YouTube is probably was probably the
most destructive or the most, the biggest freeze for
podcasting. Even my own company, bomb I got I had meetings board
meetings with, with the venture capital investors, like, be more
like YouTube. Yeah. And so we wound up doing a lot of video,
it was it was pretty much all video. And what happened. And
this is why I always say you can't monetize the network is
when you try to aggregate everything. And and you know,
it's kind of normal for people to settle into. Alright, this is
not pirate radio anymore. We need executive producers and
producers and Associate Executive producers, and we need
people to get lunch and we need to studios and bigger studios
and nicer studios. And we need ad sales. And we need podcaster
relations, to talk to the people when they were upset that they
didn't get an ad buy and you need people to talk to the
advertisers. And just when when Spotify came in and said, here's
our huge companies with a billion dollars, everybody, I
don't care who you are, you were hoping for a buyout. You were
hoping for Spotify to buy your hosting company for Spotify to
buy your podcasts or Spotify to buy you. There's it's normal,
it's just normal. And they made a huge bet and ran it like
Hollywood and ran it straight into the ground at what happened
at NPR, which is really accents on the media as an NPR, you
know, that runs on NPR stations and WNYC they had people on
podcasts that had a million dollar budget. And, and you
know, there was and here's the weakness of it all because I
also listened to that a CEO of The New York Times who was on my
hatless and Unpivot. And, you know, the question was, you
know, so you know, they've they've purchased so the New
York Times, and I don't fault them for this because print, the
newspapers are dead. And the reason why is newspapers used to
have news of do journalism, but it was paid for by classified
ads, and I went through this whole history, and they laughed
at me when I said, you know, this thing called Craigslist,
it's going to take away your revenue. It's never gonna
happen. So it did. And you know, so the New York Times has 10
million subscribers. Do you know what people really subscribe to
The New York Times for? Word a word? wordles? Yes. Wordle
Wordle. So they bought word Oh, they also now sports is another
thing that they bought. The athletic, I think is what it's
called. So that's fun
Dave Jones: video game company. Yes. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So that and the CEO is honest. She says, you know,
the way we the way we run our companies, every the first
dollar of every dollar you make goes into the newsroom, which
Okay, yeah, money is pretty fungible. But I'll take your
Dave Jones: word. I'll tell you the first one, the first note,
so
Adam Curry: it's just $1? No, but I'll take our word for it.
So once again, it's other things funding the news business,
which, which is just fine. But the what is, and so the question
was, I should have clipped it actually, because it was very
subtle, like, so what are you going to do with podcast? Well,
we'll continue to innovate with audio. Okay, that's code for
nothing. So that the daily is a top podcast. And she was very
clear, she says, the advertising market for podcasts collapsed.
Now, is it a broader issue? In advertising? Sure. I mean, that
it's digital advertising in general. I mean, I've only
recently learned that the true CPM you get so number of
dollars, you get per 1000 People who have watched the video on
YouTube, and that has to be of a certain amount of time, because
the view is also very subjective, is really down about
a buck and a half. You know, it's three, it's $3, that they
may sell it to the to the advertise it's, it's, it's, it's
not very high. So and that's because there's no artificial
lack of supply, you know, how many YouTube videos do you want
to advertise on? And, and I truly believe that the party's
over, the music has stopped, we all better sit down on a chair
really quickly. Because you can't, advertisers are not
stupid. And when I hear the CEO of a cast, who clearly is kind
of thick minded, say, Well, you know, obviously, our our numbers
are down because Apple changed the way they download stuff in
the background. It's like, wow, how could you How can you say
this stuff? So advertisers are not dumb. And they're very me to
wish, particularly the media buyer. So, hey, podcasting is
not hot anymore. Okay. We're advertising on Tiktok. Yeah,
we're out. We're out. We're out. So it's over. And the biggest
problem is, the podcast industrial complex cannot prove
listeners, they just can't, hence the ad nauseam. Talk about
YouTube, because you can go to YouTube and you can get, you
know, put your stuff on YouTube and you'll get numbers but then
you'll be up to YouTube's advertising machine. The it's
over and and more and more over. And God bless. Mitch, I think
the ipv6 is really happening. You're not going to be able to
track IP addresses anymore. It's just over
Dave Jones: the the I got a clip, I grabbed a clip from
there's a couple of things in that show that that I thought
were interesting. One was the I mean, we kind of we already knew
this, really. But it was, I don't know, the way they put it
was pretty stark. I mean, basically, in 2018, the podcast
industry was already collapsing. correctly. gimlet was starting
to they'd never made
Adam Curry: money, you never made money. It was a Hail Mary
leading bleeding
Dave Jones: to death. And they were about to go under. And they
got the Spotify, Hail Mary. Like they just caught lightning in a
bottle. People made money. I mean, it was like, it was almost
like, you know, 2019 people. A lot of people don't realize that
2019 was a recession. We were in an economic recession in 2019.
Then COVID happened. Screwed out or you coincidence. We printed
trillions of dollars. Yeah. And then had this boom. And now what
we're doing is we're reverting after the party's over reverting
to the mean. Yes, going back to recession, which is where we
would have been in 2019. And that is the same thing with with
podcasting. You had this artificial expansion by this
essentially money printer coming into the market. Yeah, and
screwed everything up for a few years and now we're going back
to what it was before. And I think the like so but I got a
clip where they he describes the problem with the advertising
problem in tied to podcasting he describes it exactly why USC was
jazz to public radio stations had long been limited to just
three ways of bringing in the dough. Sponsorship, what we call
radio ads, membership donations from listeners and grants from
foundations. WNYC is a little different. We also have a
distribution arm and we collect syndication fees for nationally
distributed shows like Oh, TM. Now WNYC could sell podcast ads
without having to jostle for a slot on the crowded radio
schedule. Yes, that's it. And that's your that's your
unlimited inventory problem.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah. Well, how much storage can add space?
How much? How much podcasts Do you want to buy?
Dave Jones: You can buy when, when these, when the ad space is
unlimited, there's no floor to the CPM. There's no floor to the
rate, it can just go.
Adam Curry: It's a race to the bottom. And, again, lack of
trust in the metrics, which is in the marketplace, and I'll
take some credit for that. Lack of trust for the metrics, always
ruin stuff. Because there is no trust in the metrics. There just
isn't, you know, the attribution part is complicated. And even
Spotify who know stuff, they know, again, money's fungible.
So you're looking at AI hearts like, oh, yeah, podcasting is
doing this for us. Well, you know, if you do a buy on, on I
Heart across radio stations and podcasts, it's just up to their
internal mechanism as to what they attribute to the podcast
side of the equation. You know, then that's, that's been going
on for a long time. And a lot of those deals were also by, you
know, a sponsorship on the radio and an ad on the podcast. But
the CEO was honest, she says, you know, does the market just
collapse collapsed. Now, what I truly still believe in is
advertisers who are a part of a program again, I always use
Linux, the Linux today, guys, was Jupiter broadcasting. I
enjoy listening to them talk about products, and say, oh, you
know, here, these guys are sponsoring us. We use them
whether it's true or not, they usually do. And they talk about
how they integrate that gets a little tough when, you know,
Linode pulls out, this is always the danger of having sponsors.
But like bridesmaids magazine, you know, that you don't buy it
really for the articles. You know, you buy it to find your
wedding band, you buy it to find your, your wedding venue, you
buy it, you know, for ideas about your wedding. You know,
that is that works great. And that's valid. And there's all
kinds of ways you can you can show an advertiser that works.
It's really per inquiry. That still works. It still does, but
this programmatic ads ruined everything that ruins it all.
Because now it's just oh, you know, buy some remnant inventory
for 50 cents CPM. bed was looking at her. And now and the
next thing you're hearing is I'm seeing these articles pop up.
Well, you know, this whole brand safety thing was a little
overblown. We went a little bit too far, because, you know, the
people who listen to those podcasts, you're still reaching
real people who buy stuff, you know, just because they're Nazis
doesn't mean that they don't buy stuff.
Dave Jones: But this night Nazis wipe their butts.
Adam Curry: But the problem is, it's no it's not about that. We
just saw this. This week with Elon Musk, where it's maybe IBM
didn't wake up and go, Oh, the horrors. Oh, my. There's an ad
for IBM near to a post about you know, someone who hates Jews.
No, that's not what happened. Media Matters, trolls, Twitter
all day long, looking for looking for, you know, some mess
up exactly like this. And then they immediately start posting
and start shaming IBM. Who, by the way, you know, it was IBM,
who created and maintained the machines that counted the Jews
in World War Two with the punch cards. I'm just saying, there's
a book about it. Yes. JC these buddy wrote the book about it.
See, this is a fascinating book. But that's that's the problem.
That is the culture that has been created. So forget about
it, you know, the genies out of the bottle, but unless you're
really strong as a brand and which comes down to the CEO,
you're not gonna do it. I think the Bud Light the lesson is
another reason why Oh, we got to be very careful because even a
brand like Bud Light, the number one beer brands in America can
be destroyed.
Dave Jones: And when has been then what it's been yes and what
is the VP
Adam Curry: of Marketing and now a second to executive has been,
has been has left to pursue other interests outside the
company. So now it's people themselves, no one's going to
take that risk. It's we blew it all up. And I really truly think
that algos and ad insertions and programmatic ads. That was the
find that was the final. That was the death knell that was the
that was the final cut. That just ruined it. I don't think
they can come back from it. And why should it really
Dave Jones: well, that there's nothing else to do though? I
mean, like, there's no there's nothing that it's built. Yeah,
it's built now. And so now the race to the bottom begins. Yeah,
well, it's
Adam Curry: well underway.
Dave Jones: It's well, I'm here. There's no There's no more
innovation. That's good. So now it's just this is all we're just
gonna roll downhill.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's become banner ads.
Dave Jones: We're, we have a problem here because I did not,
uh, fired off the the boosts to the boost to email, and I didn't
get any of the email. This was
Adam Curry: interesting. You say this, because I didn't even get
our regular morning emails either. Now that think about it.
I
Dave Jones: didn't either. I think there's an email issue.
Clearly there is that I'm gonna have to check Mailgun and make
sure, I think so. I can't read boosts because Well,
Adam Curry: luckily, luckily, what I can do, if you'll indulge
me, I was indulge, I can do a quick export of my helipad. And
we can get pretty close. Okay, all right. Hold on a second. Let
me do this. I love heli pad. I can't wait to reply to people in
heli pad. That will be the next best thing ever.
Dave Jones: They do the Lord's work.
Adam Curry: I know he is I know he is. There's something else I
wanted and how LeapPad I can't remember what it was. But it's
it's so good. Okay, let's see, um, books. So the way you do
this if you're using helipad on your podcast, because this did
come up on podcasts index dot social the other day the you and
I learned this from Dave because I'm by no means am I an Excel
guy. So you want to open Excel first. Then you click a blank
workbook. It's all these great names so you hit data. And then
from data you go to import data from text or CSV file. Because
the reason you want to do this is because then you get a pivot
table. Pivot Tables pivot when our pivot tables are badass I
love some pivot table. So hold on I'm just doing it now. So I'm
going to select this exported boost file from the last week
and a half so I know I'll have our data you can hear I'm
covering for the covering for your stream slowness. For some
reason being Excel it then it tells me it's connecting to data
source, it's a file Come
Dave Jones: on, it's a data source. Just doing
Adam Curry: like an ODBC connection or something in my
file system
Dave Jones: or whatever very large it is many boosts
Adam Curry: well it contains all my boosts so I have to know
that's big I now have to select podcasting 2.0 I
Dave Jones: think there are parameters where you can filter
that yeah,
Adam Curry: no, of course I can't and then I need to check
to make sure that the app so I want to remove IPF podcasting.
Okay, boom. All right. Here we have the table. Yes. From the
pivot table. And now I go back to
Dave Jones: what do you love? This is like a webinar on how to
use Excel
Adam Curry: if I flipped on the camera Format Cells, okay, so so
I can see the message, boom, tax Wrap Text. I've done this so
many times. Okay, now I scroll down. And all I need to look for
is comics for Blogger and I found him because he is a
delimiter and here we go.
Dave Jones: Oh, there's magic. Bam. Yes,
Adam Curry: it's super magic. Okay. We have to we do e
podcasts are 10,000 SATs because we are on day 10 of national
podcast post month. Okay, we did that. We did that. And then we
had here's chyron that was also okay. The 11th I think almost
second was when was the last show the 10th right so the 11th
Here we go. Now was Pyron the bird was around
Dave Jones: the flow is all messed up because I usually
we're so used to doing this in a batter it
Adam Curry: is it is okay. Sir Sean riser, Kevin Bay. Okay. All
right. I think this is good. I think I think we're on a path if
50,000 SATs I'm listening. This is from Kevin Bay. I'm listening
to the person Good talk. I'm wondering what would stop
someone from using someone else's good say I put Adams good
as a person in my podcast, but he has nothing to do With my
show, wouldn't I be able to hijack his persona to drive
people to my podcast? He wouldn't be able to stop me.
Yep, yes, you could. You could, but you can never really
replicate me brother. No one's gonna fall for that was gonna
fall for your tricks.
Dave Jones: You can also create fake websites that do things.
Yes, true. So of course
Adam Curry: that's possible. 3333 from Sir truck driver. No
notes. We thank you for that though. We have 1111 from Joel
who no note chyron with a row of ducks, a beautiful rendition of
criss crossed there at the end. We were singing sailing, yes.
Aside from their cowboy music, also known for their 1992 Smash
Hit jump, Adam is definitely the daddy Mac. So that would make
Dave the mack daddy okay, yes, perfect. It's on our business
cards, Jean being 2222, the central database of person tag
registrations could easily be a Git repo that contains the
results of each registration and stores the GUID profile picture
and any other relevant information if that Git repo was
public, anyone could clone it, and present it as desired. Yep.
Well, yeah, but that's Yeah, but then you're centralized and you
just basically centralizing it on a GitHub Right? Or a Git
repo.
Dave Jones: Yes, it is. It's, I mean, it's centralized in the
sense that it exists one but I mean, you can fork it a million
times into whatever. But
Adam Curry: the whole idea the whole idea is to decentralize
this at the same time that we do this activity pub RSS mindmeld
Dave Jones: Yeah. lots of moving parts, like slowly falling
together. Yes.
Adam Curry: We got Mike Dell 10,000 SATs My head hurts, but I
think I understand mine to Mike gene Bing again with elite boost
1337 can't help but wonder how we convince all traditional
podcast hosts to embrace activitypub Hopefully that will
be easier than I think it will be. Well, I don't know. I mean,
we convinced a lot of hosts to add the namespace.
Dave Jones: There's a lot of there's a lot of people in
activity insurance I mean, there really is and
Adam Curry: then gene being again with elite boost another
piece of prior art you should look at is funk whale dot audio.
Dot audio. They do music and activity pub plus RSS.
Dave Jones: Oh, I think you have heard
Adam Curry: of it. Funky so they do activity? Well, let's take a
look at that. That's interesting. They are anti
Bitcoin. Okay, so they don't want to adopt the namespace.
Wow, they do not want us now. But the underlying tech seems
very relevant to this episode. Jay Moon 3333 with the boost
just listen and 1776 Freedom boost. Thank you for all you do
shout out the fountain. Love the music stuff going on there. I'm
actually loving having my podcasts and music in the same
app. Shout out also to phantom power music, our loving being
able to find a track that he plays in the References tab and
go at it to my library without switching apps. That's the dream
brother right there. Now I got a call from a reporter from
Fortune Magazine. And he wanted to talk about open source value
for value and mastodon. And they said and he's a Bitcoin right
off the bat, you know, Bitcoin. I said, Well, do you know about
value for value in the podcast as well? I know about fountain.
Two. Oh, brother. Do you have a couple minutes? Let me sit down
and tell you sort of story. And after I told them you know how
everything comes in he goes wow, that's awesome. Said Yes. Yes.
Fortune Magazine. Boy. Go read some stuff it
Dave Jones: he'll go read then go right. Yeah, please.
Adam Curry: Looks like comic strip blogger. Even though he's
the delimiter he's not the dilemma because I'm going to do
the live boosts after this. Adam and Dave, and this is 32,015.
I'd like to extend an invitation to your audience. So listen to
the just to good old boys podcast. You can find it at www
dot just two good old boys.com. The show is hosted by two
Texans. A dude named Ben and Jean, who is an in person friend
of Adam. In person, friend. What does that even mean? Yes, he's
been in my house. This podcast stands out due to the host vast
experience in the corporate world and business travel yo
CSB. By the way, Sergio been instrumental in developing the
value for value model. I might add. He helped a lot and really
did Yes, he did. Okay. He he helped with the gamification.
Yeah, he came up with some really good ideas. I wonder back
in the old days when I still didn't in my first house and the
second house in Austin
Dave Jones: Sergej and the Sheriff of Sheriff Texas is
telling
Adam Curry: record 4444 Getting a pre show. Thank you boostin
here before heading out of town again for a gig in Wisconsin
this weekend. Looking forward to spreading the V for V model
capabilities and information to any other musicians there during
dinner Saturday night. The signal Keep spreading us right?
We all have to do nice satchel of Richard's 11,111 from
blueberry for three to count it down that's how many songs we've
gotten to upload with Thunder Road dot media to the index if
you got music and want someone to host it hit me up. I will
also set intentions to go back on tour as the split kit tech
and Broadway shows are so yesterday. Live V for V
conference will be pure magic. So yeah, so Thunder Road media.
What Buber is doing is he'll help you he'll set you up. Hill
host your music and your feed. And he takes I think a 3% split
off of everything.
Dave Jones: That seems reasonable. I
Adam Curry: love this. This this is the economy I'm talking
about. No. And then people say yeah, no one uses Bitcoin. Oh
goodness. See, this, we have an ecosystem of proof dripping with
proof. Chat F 3333. We just need to put STR on the end of
everything we built. Oh, now introducing ln gangster Okay.
Podcasts says I'm just gonna be Adam curry stir, and I'll just
change everything. 10,000 SATs from Dobie Das. RSS blue.com
There have been instances of RSS blue music show DJs not being
able to reference wavelength tracks because they weren't on
podcast index. So now, when someone pays a wavelength URL
that doesn't have an entry in the podcast index, RSS blue will
send out a pod ping with that wavelength Feed URL.
Dave Jones: Thank you, brother.
Adam Curry: Beautiful. What a beautiful hack.
Dave Jones: Interrupt. Interrupt.
Adam Curry: Yes, it's one way but we're interrupting where the
good guy hack I call it interim. Yeah, we're the good guys. were
the good guys. There's those 210 1000 SATs from Sam Sam Sam
Sethi we read earlier. Thank you, Sam. Appreciate it. Go
check them out at pod fans.fm 15,500 from see Brooklyn
112 Thank you for all your work and the vocabulary lesson. Yes,
I learned all kinds of things like cyclomatic complexity.
Yikes. Salty Crayon 3333. How do you board room looking forward
to hopefully talking to other V four v music podcasters tomorrow
love this way of playing independent artists and seeing
the value go back to them. See you there tomorrow. Go
podcasting.
Dave Jones: Go podcast now. Where's
Adam Curry: he going to be? Let's OYSTEIN bariga OYSTEIN I
love that the Oh with a slash through it comes through on my
spreadsheet.
Dave Jones: It's not always easy Dutch, right. He's Dutch.
Adam Curry: I think no, I think he's Norwegian. Scandinavian
country I believe. Yeah, that's
Dave Jones: that's not a Dutch name. And
Adam Curry: he does the mutton Mead music podcast one a one a
one. Okay. And he just says educate me. Daddy. Educated.
Assaults crayon back with a short row of ducks. 2222 Did I
hear hot namespace is Dave breaking out the red light next
week for a late board meeting? Bow. Bow. Wow. Yeah, you better
believe it and Dred Scott, we'll figure it out. Dred Scott winds
up the whole list here with 45678 Dred Scott, thank you so
much, brother. He says just boosting for the boost boosts
and because that's what that's what dribs got does. Let me
check that something else didn't come in after the fact now that
we've gotten through every single one of them. heli pad
rocks, it rocks.
Dave Jones: I feel neutered just was sitting back watching you do
do that in my job. I'm like,
Adam Curry: can you do the paper towels? You can do the paper
towels. I can do paper towels. Yeah, once Yeah.
Dave Jones: We got we got a new subscriber $5.50 a month from
Michael Hall. Thank you, Michael. Yeah, Michael says
beginning monthly support. Thank you for your service.
Adam Curry: Thank you, Michael.
Dave Jones: We work hard. And then we got some monthlies. We
got Terry Keller $5 Chris cow and $5 Paul Saltzman $22.22
Derek J. Vickery. Great name. I love it every time $21 you're on
you're on Rosenstein $1, Damon Castle, Jack $15 and Jeremy
gerdts $5.
Adam Curry: Thank you all very much. This is a value for value
proposition. If you don't know what that means. Forbes magazine
will explain it to you soon, or go to value for value dot info.
That's a pretty good overview of of how it works in the history
of it. But really, the idea is, if you like the project, if you
like this podcast, if you want it all to continue, then you can
send value back to us in three ways time, talent or treasure.
Most people will hand back time and talent in big ways. And a
lot of them also provide treasure which is so incredibly
appreciated. You can go to podcast index Start org. Go down
to the bottom you'll see two red donate buttons, one for your
Fiat Pay Pal Fiat fun coupons. The other one is taken as a
tally coin in case you just happen to have a Bitcoin laying
around. Oh, these guys, they could use a whole Bitcoin. I'll
send that to them. I think I'll do that on chain. We'll accept
that.
Dave Jones: Please do that.
Adam Curry: But we'd love for you to go to new podcast
apps.com or podcast apps.com. Grab a modern podcast app,
you're going to need it eventually. And remember one of
the big features besides the fact you can boost us and send
us a booster gram and have it read in the in the thank you
segment is that you also get updated. The app updates within
like 90 seconds of us publishing. People forget that
and I still have so many people say why haven't you uploaded to
Apple yet? That's not how it works. Apple is just old
fashioned. Do you want to consider something new?
Dave Jones: Yeah, we're like a pack. Yeah, like a podcast app
that actually cares about efficiency.
Adam Curry: Before we go, you want to play song.
Dave Jones: Oh, love the song. Yeah, song. That would be
fantastic. I didn't know you're gonna do that. Yeah,
Adam Curry: well, I just had one just in case and this is from
one of those guys. This guy actually, when we did the
podsafe music networks, and now we're talking back 2007 I think
he uploaded a lot of his tracks. And he's been around for a long
time. Do you remember Jimmy Bratcher you may be you may be
too young to remember Jimmy Bradsher Bratcher atcha now you
probably don't remember him. No, no, no. Well, you're going to
hear him right now. And there we go. If you want some bluesy kind
of down home funky music Jimmy Bradshaw is your guy.
Unknown: I went to the doctor the other day the doc said, Boy
you got to quit cut out the cheese and what's the brother
supposed to do? The I went home and told my wife. She said baby
you gonna take his invite? We came sick in bed. Don't relax.
Don't be sad. Mom cried No. Mama Wolfram knows. That ain't gonna
be in your mouth. Brad was when? By Mosuo I get tempted and I can
drive by and searches Popeyes KFC this guy goes you can go and
get a piece and sweet be fried chicken marble fries boyfriend
today we're gonna be
your fried chicken is the best I've ever had and without it it
just makes me mad so get out the skillet through some dark lead
in the paint and some gravy. I'll be happy man Mom Mom mama
Wolfram no chicken the a goat would be no fingers because mama
whoa Fran Oh chick No. No chicken I said Mama will crack
nose Don't be finger naked. Mama Fran no to crime is darkly
breathing.
Adam Curry: That's the kind of stuff we play out here in the
hill country man
Dave Jones: Anything that says gravy and biscuits in it? I'm
down.
Adam Curry: I know did you did you kill your rooster?
Dave Jones: Killing three of them tomorrow.
Adam Curry: For Thanksgiving.
Dave Jones: We have a trio in the backyard that is about to
drive me insane in the morning,
Adam Curry: but are you killing them just because you hate him
or because you're hungry or is it a combo? Combo?
Dave Jones: combo and they work out they work together
perfectly.
Adam Curry: Oh, man. All right. Well, listen, we'll figure out
what we're going to do. I mean, maybe because here in America,
we have Thanksgiving. It's Thursday. And then you have your
your family affair on Friday. So we'll have to see what we do.
Dave Jones: Let me I'll get the times from from my wife, their
boss about what time yeah, for the balls and what times we're
doing stuff. And now we'll figure it out. I'll say well, we
might be able to still pull off a show. Okay, well, maybe just a
little earlier. Something.
Adam Curry: Oh, brother. Let me just hold on a second. Let me
just check because I got my boss and she goes, Let's synchronize
calendars. Never that happens. No, Friday the 24th Now I can do
it anytime you want. Anytime you want a Friday. Okay. Maybe we
just did a little little early. Okay. All right, brother. Have a
great weekend. Happy Thanksgiving. You too, man. All
right. And chat room. Thank you very much for joining us here in
the boardroom for another board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 We'll
see you next week. Take care everybody.
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.org. For more information, go podcast. Yeah, it's pretty
cool.