podcasting 2.0 for December 18 2020, Episode 16 and we're in
the fourth quarter Batman.
Got to add a little baby to it. It is Friday once again Time for
a board meeting of podcast index.org reviewing the week's
happenings in podcasting 2.0 I'm Adam curry in Austin, Texas and
now the man who put Frederick's podcast on the map Mr. Southern
bred himself, James Jones.
Hey, guys.
Hey, guys. Have you been?
Yeah, I've got a complete new direction for the show. We're
gonna fix this show.
And we're gonna we're gonna start by saying Hey, guys.
Yes. So we're gonna turn this we're gonna turn this into a six
figure podcast. overnight. Start with Hey, guys.
Hey, guys. Yeah,
in five minutes of talking inside baseball, just about
stuff that people don't understand about ourselves.
Yeah, then 10 minutes of talking about what we're going to talk
about. Yeah, and then and then an ad roll.
Mid roll.
Mid roll. Yeah. Then Then the content which only maybe like
maybe five minutes. In essence a bunch of times for people to
subscribe.
Yeah, we can't really point to the bottom the screen because
it's smash that subscribe button, guys.
Yes, smash. Smash the subscribe button. You got to do that at
least.
If I might say asking people to boost the podcast on Sphinx chat
is not much different from asking. Smash subscribe. is
pretty douchey it's in the same league. And definitely. Yeah.
How are you doing, man?
I'm pretty good. Yeah, good. Um, I'm feeling good. This is a good
Friday.
Oh, well, that's nice.
It's just the two of us. No guests.
Yeah. And it's hard to catch up when we when we have a guest.
And I guess any of the guests are hanging because, you know, I
don't have a production assistant who could who could
dial them in when appropriate. So I'm very, you know, I'm very
aware that just sitting there listening along, going. Okay,
what is our turn?
She's saying that song. Just the two of the just
the winners. The winners. Okay. That's right. I
was thinking in my head. I was thinking Billy ocean? No, no.
The Fabulous Bill Withers he passed away this year.
Yeah, like, was in March or something like that in March?
During the Rona. I think,
yeah. Yeah. Everybody's posting old pictures of him, like from
the 70s. And I'm like, that's a good looking man right there.
You know, he's, he had it going on. He
was the 70s kind of guy. And he had it all going on. Exactly. So
I hope you well, things are good. It's been really busy with
no agenda, obviously, just, you know, tracking all the stuff
that's happening right now. But in the meantime, I made a very
brave move, and decided to really give graphene OS a go as
my daily driver.
Yeah, yeah. Tell me about that. Because you were you were
texting me saying this is great.
Yeah, there's only one processor. It's loaded. One of
one of our producers loaded this on a pixel two. Now I had
replaced the battery. And I knew that the previous battery was
completely crap, it would run down in like 45 minutes. And I
had the battery replaced, I shouldn't say I replace it how
to replace because you have to be cracked open. And I think
even had to replace it wasn't worth it in the last class to
replace the screen and and get a new battery. And it works never
works, right?
Isn't it like it? Well, it works, right? But when you crack
a phone open and have to like re glue it and all that jazz yet.
Like it never fits back together exactly the way it did for the
factory.
Well, I just didn't i didn't have it from the factory. I
can't speak. But but the but the battery still runs down pretty
quickly. And it didn't because I had this thing in the drawer
just laying around. I'd messed around with it. And I decided
you know what, I'm going to give it a real go. I'm going to
customize it. I'm going to install stuff, see if it'll
work. And I'm I'm blown away by how fast it is. How intuitive
Some things are much more intuitive than than iOS. And for
the first time I can really use some of the web apps, the
progressive web apps that are podcasting 2.0 compliant, not
that I couldn't use them on iOS, but now you play it and you just
put it in the background or you lock the lock the device and it
keeps playing. That's really nice.
What's the screen is it never had a pixel. I don't know what
it's not to be like, Is it a big one? No, no, no, no, no, it's
the size of the iPhone seven. Actually. It's just a little bit
bigger than that.
That's a good size. The gigantic No, I
had those. It doesn't work out. It's like an after you've had a
smaller phone for a while and you put one of those big ones in
your hands like what was I thinking? Yeah, why not? Yeah.
Why did I ever want this?
Especially if you have to take a phone calls like holding them.
It's like holding a laptop to your head.
And iPad. Exactly, yeah. But it's, that's, that's really been
pleasant
to have. Cuz you can't hook it up to a screen though. Right? He
said, You have to get like a. Yeah. hook it up to like a
monitor.
Yes. So it has full on keyboard and mouse support out of the box
through Bluetooth, which is very interesting. Using I use the K
nine email app, which is open source has been around forever,
but it has all the key commands, the shortcuts already pre
programmed. So you hit r goes to reply, you know, even Alt Tab
works if you want to switch between applications. This is
surprisingly good. Yeah, it's really that's well, it's quite
cool. And so in the three and the four, I guess, the five, but
the graphene is not been adapted for the five yet, nor do I want
a 5g handset. Apparently, the HDMI out works and they have
floating windows. So you can drag windows around on your
secondary monitor on a phone. That's pennis. I
mean, now now
you're getting very close to what I was trying to do with a
Linux phone. Because you know, you can you can, there's all
kinds of apps that give you a command line, and I guess it's
some really minimalistic Linux install, you can get some stuff
working, you know. So we'll see. It's fun. And I mean,
even if you used it for just a remote, like, if you had another
machine set up, let's just say you had your desktop running as
a cloud, you know, like a VM and a cloud somewhere. And then you
just use right here like remote access and sure thing from
wherever you were, yes, cool. Yeah, I
already have that I have a remote machine that that updates
automatically with whatever I have in mind, my Linux laptop.
And that works really well. So you just you know, you're
outside, just SSH in good to go. That works surprisingly well.
I'm in and what was beautiful is after so within one week after
speaking about some features that I would love to see from
from all of our apps that Martin had already integrated my my top
two, which was a latest episodes, which is working
beautifully. So I don't have to you know, I can see what
podcasts update he kind of already had that. But now hey,
here's all the new episodes in chronological order. That's very
handy. And the Share, share with the time code. And today we
discovered that he didn't even know about the the share panel
that apparently can be accessed with I guess some CSS or
something. So it's really becoming an incredibly
functional app. Because now I mean, I have all the things I
want all the almost I think everything that overcast does,
and of course, overcast I don't have it on this phone. And so
right now pod friend is looking pretty good.
So it's a pw a so you can just pin it right to your home screen
like a regular app. Exactly. Yeah. In fact, I've
little folder of all of all of the 2.0 app because each one has
something a little different. So I like was it pod verse has the
a lot of clips.
Yeah, I got a clip for barbers today.
Which one is it?
Uh, it is. Well, gosh, what would you ask me? It's the one
that I think is clip. Done. And this is say something about
dynamic ads. A clip to clip. One, maybe? podcasts are cool.
That's not necessarily the one but who are these podcasts and
Mama knows Oh, mama knows best ads? Yeah, no, it's
not. No, it's not that one. It's the other one. Okay. It's what
are these podcasts? That's it. All right, hold
on a second. Here.
We're saying they also of course, have tons of
advertising. The advertising is off the charts on the shoulder.
But what am I mean, it's it's funny you talk about the
advertising because I don't know if you listened to the cats
episode. Maybe you did. I did. I did. It's It's nearly two hours
long. Yeah. So they play this little stingers when ads will
play and I'm wondering if they might be in trouble because
listen to what they left in this show, play my number 12 they
have to add breaks. Can I just bring up one thing here too? Hot
airberlin.
Let's get to the questions here from the crowd
because I'm glad you could edit that stuff out. Like No, no, no,
no. I'm glad you picked up on this because I'll tell you
what's happening here. This is a newer funnel. Now we're gonna
see more and more as we start to review these shows what the feed
that you get is different than the feed that I get. I listened
to it through my app. And that was what I heard as well. And
then I downloaded it from Apple podcasts in order to clip it.
And there was an ad in there. It's dynamic insertion. So
they're putting in timestamps. And then if there is an ad to
serve to somebody based on who you are, they'll put an ad in
there if there isn't, that's really a weird, obnoxious thing,
where it's just like this empty ad spot.
Oh, my goodness. I wonder, I wonder who's, who's selling that
I wonder who's doing the dynamic insertion?
I don't know. wasn't clear from what they were saying. But like,
you can see the he can see the danger of putting the stinger on
either side of your ad of your ad roll. And then there's no ad.
It's, like, mentally jarring thing. Whoa, what just happened?
Yeah.
So so. And I've been thinking about this. And you know, the
conversation is everywhere. Is there a way that we can do
anything with the index to make this easier or to benefit? to
benefit anybody who wants to do ads? I don't want if there's a
way for the index to help if there's something that can be
provided, that would make stuff easier? And I'm just throwing it
out there. I mean, I don't want to add the whole idea of Bitcoin
lightning is perpendicular to that, but I want to stay open to
being able to help. Well, there's something about stats.
Was there something you were telling me
that was going on about stats? Yeah, we've been telling you
that I had had conversations, a couple conversations this past
two weeks with some posters, and they were both just expressing
frustration about stats about just the whole IBC process. And
how that how difficult it is and how stupid expensive it is.
Well, that's,
that's, that's how it works. That's I mean, that's the
Nielsen model is come up with the standard, get everybody to
buy in, and then have them pay you to be member of the
standards group that so you get the reports, right.
Yeah, I mean, that's totally what this is. And you if you're
a host of any size, you're paying well into five figures.
Wow. I don't know how high that goes. Is it based on on your
What? How do they base that?
I hadn't really had no idea. And, you know, I don't I don't
want to give any real, real fate. Well,
we can't we can't even ask any of our hosting buddies about
this publicly, because I'm sure it's all sensitive.
Yeah, yeah. But they were. They were like, Well, you know, the
guys are talking to is like, it's just, it's just kind of the
whole thing is a little bit disconcerting, because for what
you get, it's like, what you get for the money? Is, is kind of
not. And let me let me stop. I don't I don't I'm not throwing a
baby or any nest. I mean, I don't know when even enough
about it. I'm still making my way through the IB. spec. So I
mean, I'm not going to speak competently enough to criticize
or anything like that. But, you know, we know already. So I'm
coming at it from a couple of standpoints. We know from recent
experience, that standard by standards bodies and working
groups in podcasting, or slow roll, and they never get much
accomplished. Yeah, it's fairly obvious. Yeah. Yes. And I think
there's not I think there's a very good reason for that. It's,
whenever you put together a standards body, and especially
when there's money involved, a lot of money involved, and
there's memberships and all these sorts of things. There's a
natural tendency for gatekeeping Mm hmm. And the gatekeeper. When
you start gatekeeping, you have older established players that
are in that market. They're usually the ones who are on
these boards and these working grants, they are experts
at gatekeeping.
experts in every field, this is not just podcasting, every
industry is this way. And once you have a group of sort of old
established gatekeepers that are running these these nonprofits
and these working groups and that kind of thing. There's
really not that much impetus for progress. Because they're kind
of steering the whole the ship and so the young, the sort of
younger and more in smaller and more aggressive competitors in
that in whatever market that's in, they're always going to want
to move faster. But they can't you know, because the the sort
of whales are in or driving the ship. And so I think I mean,
podcasting is is, is prominent that just like every industry is
there's going to be large working groups that take forever
to make decisions. I mean, you, you know, with the namespace,
it's, we're, you know, half halfway to phase two already.
And that's something that probably would have taken
Working Group, you know, five years.
Well, no, it took working groups multiple years. And that didn't
happen. And I've been told in confidence. So I, I don't want
to bust anybody. But it'll be news eventually, that another
large podcast host is going to jump on board and add in support
all of the namespace tags.
Now, that's great. Yeah.
So so we know, that's the kind of stuff where
we already have almost 100,000 feeds out there in the wild that
are supporting the namespace tags. So another big host jumps
on board. I mean, that's just you're talking about now you're
on that roll, you know, momentum rolling.
Exactly. And and then it's up to any podcast developer, whether
you're doing a progressive web app, or whether you're Apple,
and honestly, Spotify, but I don't think that that nimble
that they're trying to figure out the ad stuff, make that all
work trying to get the audience side working. Yeah. Which brings
me back to my community features, because that's where
we're going to crush it. Once we have that, we can really, really
crush it if we can figure out how that would work. Did Did you
see that?
Did you read that article? Has independent podcasting. Pete,
did you read that?
I skimmed it. I the minute I saw it, I was like, what's the
what's the gist? Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's probably what you think goes
to the money go to the money's Don't Don't be independent.
It's not it's not No, it's not that bad. It's it's not that bad
really isn't? It's, it's more. It's something that caught my
attention was, he says in here in the podcasting ecosystem, has
enormous strengths. It's open, it's flexible, it could easily
become interactive. And I think that's what we're trying to do.
We're trying to make it interactive. And whether it's
lightning or whether it's just something as simple as chapters
and all that kind of stuff. The interactivity has always been
there. It's nice to see somebody, you know, write that
in print in a way that's clear.
Did I see someone on podcast index post about some, some idea
of sending input data from one app to the other?
I think what Yeah, okay, if you're talking about how you
talk about like, x, or not exporting, but like, where you
are in a podcast, if you're, if you've listened to 30 minutes of
this podcast, to a different app, pick it up? Yeah.
Well, if we have no, we have if we have that, how does that
mechanism work?
I have no idea. Like, that's work, you just got to figure it
out, you know?
Well, somewhere you're gonna we're gonna need services.
Correct. We're gonna need a service. If you want to have
community chapters that can be input to from any app, you're
gonna need some some service that does something in the
middle. Mm, link linkers. Link blink services like glue, a way
to glue things together. Okay, just had I had a brain fart,
here you go. All right. Daniel J, pay attention. Isn't this
something that would be new, that would make sense to create
some kind of standard? Maybe it's a tag, I don't know. But
it's a community server. And maybe this community server is
no more than Here comes a JSON file. That that has pointers to
a whole bunch of different things. So for instance, I
believe it will be incredibly simple. Here's this is Adams
dumb thinking, if I had a web app, a web podcast web app, I
would probably fire up an IRC server, which means I have a lot
of experience using them not setting them up and not running
them. That could literally have a different channel for each
individual podcast. And there's so much web code available for
IRC that you could easily create and, or someone could host
themselves, an IRC server that you tie every single app into.
And that could be referenced or you know, whatever data you need
that might come from one external JSON that is like
third, third parties, third services or something, we need a
way to create communicate, how to tie into something that can
that can make these dysfunctionality happen. So
whether it's an IRC server or a Sphinx chat tribe, it shouldn't
matter the feature or something should be able to tell an app.
Okay, here's how we do chat.
Oh, okay. So your light cross, so I can have I guess I threw
in all the JSON crap, just for effect, but I guess you don't
really need it. But you understand what I'm saying? It's
like an act. I think I do IRC is the is the simplest, anybody can
set one up, you can rent them everywhere, you can set it up on
a crappy ass box that runs on five bucks a month. And it's
universal interface into it, which any app developer can
modify. I mean, for me, I mean, and it has registration. There's
all these benefits to it.
So that, okay, so on, that I know, we're getting off topic of
any sort of topic. But I don't understand why slack took over
rcma. slack is basically IRC. I don't I guess I really just
don't understand why slack became what it is when you work
as a
UX. It's all it's all the user experience. I mean, why? Why did
follow, take off over subscribe? Pam is better is just a much
better understanding. Oh, I get it. I'm following that, when of
course, you're actually doing something completely different?
Well, if that's the case, and I think what you're talking about,
is this ability for multiple apps to coordinate their
experience their podcast user experience, together, Mm hmm. So
that you have so that I know, as an app, the, you know, there's,
as I know, there's a pod verse, I can somehow look at this feed,
and see that that pod friend, excuse me, is pod verse and look
at the feet and say, okay, they're chat servers here. So
then pod friend can also look at their feet and say, the chat,
you know, the chat servers there. Exactly. They can both be
feeding back to the same thing from within the app. Yes. Okay.
And and if anyone needs me to set up an IRC server to test
this, let me know. I'm just saying that it's universal. I
mean, all of these chat type apps have a form of web hook
into it. So you know, you can, you can always create a an
interface around the functionality as long as and
maybe it's a tag that has to be, or that should be in the system.
But that's why I'm saying maybe we do need some kind of cool, I
don't know what belongs in the in the feet and what doesn't, I
don't know how that works. Some things are there. Some things
aren't?
Well, you can't eat all these things have cost games anyway.
So you're, it's like IRC colon slash slash, win. Right? Right.
You know, and that tells you Okay, it's an IRC server, or if
it gotcha, maybe Sphinx, thinks chat, colon slash, Lina. Uh huh.
That just that data in a link, tell you what you need. Okay.
Well, something like that back. You know, I can see that being.
And that's just one. That's one step. You know, now you've
created a connection between all these app now you've created
something that Apple and Spotify probably will never do.
I can't know. Okay.
But yeah, no, I mean, and no, I just don't think that they,
they. I mean, they can do anything they want, but I don't
think they'll ever focus on that. And this is, and this is
big. I mean, for no agenda. There's the troll room. No
agenda stream.com. And that's just a really bad page that I
just created with the freedom controller is nothing there and
just has a link and you can open up a, a web interface to the
chat room. It has a little player for the live stream. So
it's no different, you know, just take that code, or take
those those that pointer to that IRC channel and log them in.
Yeah, I mean, I think that chat rooms have become like an
integral part of a lot of podcasts. So I don't see that
it's necessarily such a stretch to have a task, some sort of tag
for that. Because you've like, I mean, I can probably there's
probably five I can name off top my head that have chat rooms.
And if you had some, I guess we get to a certain size and you
want to have a chat room. You just spin up an IRC somewhere
and then you just stick it in Your feed? I don't know where it
would go or how it would be present. But it seems that seems
like a good deal to me. I mean, it seems like a worthwhile thing
to me. All right, at least you have everybody in it, because
because there's our C apps on phones. So you have, you know,
if you tap the little chat room chat room link on your podcast
app, it could kick you over to the IRC for that room.
And here's another Adam Curry idea. If you are an IRC app
developer, consider baking some podcast into your IRC app, you
can reverse the process and some lightning. Yeah, well, I'm on
the lightning. And this is for streaming, streaming payments,
streaming value for value. We've had some interesting preliminary
conversations. And I think we're going to wind up with I don't
know, the timeframe or whatever, is a way to lightening of phi,
almost any podcast app, really with just a couple of API calls?
Am I am I correct in saying that?
Yeah, I think is so what what it'll what it'll be if this
works out the way we think it will, will, what it'll be is a
lightning app, there's, let's give me a lightning wallet
provided by a wallet provide a lightning wallet provider. And
so then there's an API that you could hook into, that just says,
the key that just tells you tells the add the podcast, app
basics, some basic stuff about what's in the wallet, like your
balance, your you know, an address, book type deal, just as
a couple of bare bones things is really all the podcast app would
have to do is just call the API, maybe set up a new Wallet for
somebody who doesn't have one. And these are all just some
simple API calls. And all the heavy lifting is done on the
provider side, then, so when then all the app is doing the
podcast app is doing is as you listen, it just pings
periodically to the wallet provider and says, Hey, this
person's wallet needs to send this mini SATs to these, these
these, these addresses. Or probably what's going to happen
more likely is it will say here is there needs to be a send and
this is what I was thinking about over the weekend. There
needs to be ascend, ascend needs to happen or excuse me, like a
payout needs to happen. And you will, you know, you call it
something like you there's an API pain that where you will
wear that podcast app says, okay, trigger the trigger a
payout, a permanent payout for this feed ID. And then the the
lightning wallet provider has linkage to the podcast index,
which will say okay, that feed ID represents these addresses
running it does the payout, right, because what you don't
want? Okay, well, let me step back. Because what you further
from the podcast apps developed the app developer side. This
makes it where they don't have to bake any lightning stuff in
right? sake.
It's just it's a it's a two day's worth of work.
Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Yeah. It's just the the user interface
will be harder than the natural implementation of the lightning
stuff side. Right. So and then the reason it would not do
DIRECT address sins from the app? And is because the podcast
index has all the addresses and everything in there. Because
we're aggregating the actual fee, we have we have the the
current split split information.
Yeah, exactly. And we're doing some verification, like, we
don't take value blocks from feeds that aren't HTTPS, right?
Things like that. Because so we're, we're, we're sort of
like, what you want as a trusted source, so that you make sure
that an app is not going to go rogue, and just decide to drain
your wallet to some God knows where, right. So really, the
only action the app can take is to tell the lightning wallet
provider to send a payment into this feed. And then at that
point, that feed gets verified that that is legit, and that the
address is match what we have and then it triggers it. I think
that's the safest way to do it. I
like how you know you thought about that. You've been thinking
about that. That's good. I like it. Yeah, there
was so we're talking about it last weekend, you know, when
this came up, and there's something that was bugging me
about it because I kept drawing it out on paper trying to figure
out how the linkage was would work. And I think that's the
missing piece is that I think the thing that was bugging me is
this There's too much potential control on the app side to do
what they want. Right? Which you really, you know, that's, that's
sketchy.
It can it can be Yeah, it can be I like this. I like how you
separated this in from just from the user experience side, the
way it will probably work is, you know, you you bring up a
page or something. There would be a, there's a better way to do
it on mobile, I think. But in general, you'd have this
lightning provider wallet, you scan a QR code, and immediately
you've verified and linked your lightning wallet to that app.
And then you could start using the the interface and we can
also do boost then as well.
Oh, that'd be great. Yeah.
Yeah, super easy. Yeah, super easy. And we can send in the
memo field, you send the timecode.
Yeah, in that netlist, you have it. So for people who may not be
following all of this, but you understand the whole Sphinx
model, think about things in the way it's set up. So currently,
if you have a Sphinx tribe, and you host a podcast, they're
yours. Thanks, tribe. By default, your thinks node is the
receive receiver of all the permitted sass that you stream,
right. So this would make it where let's just say you have a
Sphinx tribe. And you that's your node that's thinks that
thinks tribe is your thinks lightning node is your node, you
don't have your own personal one, off, off off site
somewhere, you could then just list your list your sinks node,
in your value block in your feed, right, and then these
other apps that are out there that are straight, and that are
going to become lightning enabled this other way that we
were talking about, they can they can see because the index
lists that they can see that happen in in all those payments
from these other apps will just continue to go back to your
things node. Because this makes node really is just a lightning
node. And it can accept payments. So you're having you
can sort of keep your home based on things if you like that with
your tribe and your chat and all that jazz. And that's that's
sort of the best the beauty of, of the lightning network is that
you any, any node can can talk to each other, there's no
barriers. They're just siloing. So you could you could move your
note off site if you wanted to. But you could also just exempt
status. Thanks. You've already got maybe, you know, 100
followers on your thanks, tribe. I mean, you don't want to ditch
that and go to some other provider for your notes. So you
just stay there and then redirect everything that yours.
Thanks, note, and this other app now is streaming back to that
too. And that also may, if you had if this is this Thanks, guys
would do integration with chat. Maybe they maybe somehow that
could link back in
bridge, a bridge?
Yeah, like an IRC bridge
with the with the relay with a relay software. Yeah. I love
this. And you know, we have we have such a forward motion we
got we got momentum on this. And I love seeing, you know, people
collaborating and thinking about it. So you know, here we go.
There's a lot of work left to be done. And and we can do whatever
the hell we want. We can turn left or right whenever we want.
Yeah, it's fun. It's it's fun it. I wonder if they would if
they could do that, because he thinks could easily integrate
with our senior. I don't mean to say easily. I don't mean that
unless
you had your developer hat on. Yeah, I heard you
write. You know, a bit a bit. That'd be a fun project for
somebody. Definitely write a write some sort of bridge over
over there to that. Mm hmm. And then then you're then you're
basically you have a window into into, into your things? Well, I
mean, I know there's encryption and all that good stuff. I'm
just dreaming.
Well, to bring it all around to is independent, podcasting.
peaking?
No, we were talking about stats where we
Yeah, well. So a, we're just getting started on it just
getting started. So I don't think so at all. And the only
thing we've been missing is great app experiences and value
flow. So we're solving these issues. And once we have this if
we can we get one of these wallet providers integrated. It
can scale pretty quick. And then it's just a matter of saying,
Oh, hey, do this. You know, the swing swing stuff is fantastic
for that. I see that as a lot of future in there. I'm very
enamored with running stuff over the blockchain and no secret
there. Yeah. But we can scale up and get people going really
quick. And yeah, if there were an IRC bridge from the Sphinx
chat, oh my goodness but
I was messaging you about the sad stat stuff the other day.
And you said, your spouse was like, he can't spell stats
without SATs.
Yeah, exactly. Well, and that that's the other thing is if we
just come around to the, to the stats talk. What a great
anonymous. Well, it's kind of an attribution tracking system. But
it's completely anonymous, which for real, completely anonymous.
Yeah, but caveats for, obviously, because there's all
kinds of ways to track people doing all kinds of stuff. But in
general, and having an actual listen time, and having an
individualized by each listener is incredibly valuable.
No, yeah. No. 100%. And that's, you know, it's probably easier
with the API method from an app. And it is Oh, yeah, even with
things because then you have, you know, then the apps, how
about this thing? Wait about? Yeah,
the app could provide stats to the to the feed owner.
Okay, well, that's a good way to get. That's, that's a good segue
into into this idea.
Okay, good.
I'm actually I brought the ABS sheet here.
By the way, for those of you who've been following our sexy
namespace talk and talk of Bitcoin ever since we started
this, Bitcoin is now effectively doubled. Yeah, it surged 23,000.
I mean, it's it's no coincidence that this is because of
podcasting. It is. out there, just putting it out there.
Yeah, I need a GIF of us on top of a Bitcoin. Precisely. So this
is I'm looking at the ib 2.1. spec, like I said, or like I
began to say earlier, I'm not, this has nothing to do. I'm not
criticizing it at all. And we got just not. That's not the
goal here. But the definite it says, I just kind of some stuff
stood out to me. This is a podcast advertisers, this gives
me a podcast offer advertisers, a hyper focused audience that
chooses to listen to the content podcast listeners, have been
shown to be the most loyal and engaged audience of any digital
medium. That's 100%. Right.
I believe that's true.
Yeah. And so the the IB spec, and this is 2.1 that I'm looking
at, says this document offers a set of metrics that establish a
mutual understanding in podcast advertising negotiations. To see
and for the foreseeable future, log based log based measurement
is the only way to achieve comprehensive measurement of all
podcast usage. So that's, that's the way this that's the way this
stuff works. This is all these podcasts, stats, download
metrics, and those kind of things are all done based on
basically grip and the locks.
Very little has changed in 25 years. We're still grepping, the
logs everybody.
It's just the regex is are different. Yeah. It's it. It
says, currently, less than 3% of the market share enables client
side tracking, as it exists in other forms in digital
advertising. So you essentially have less than 3% of the podcast
application of the podcast apps. Have any sort of client side
tracking exposed back to advertisers? Sure. Essentially,
zero. Yeah,
I mean, Apple App, Apple's the only one that I know that that
does any of that.
Yeah. So you have, see, what you have is a is a is a system where
very, there's hardly any stats to be given back from the player
side. And then, so what you're left with is trying to grip
stats out of the logs. And this gives you a situation where
people gamify it, like crazy. So you if you go from if you move
your pie, and these are some some of this, I'm not going to
talk about who I talked to this past couple weeks. But if you
move from host to host, let's say you're you started out at
Lipson and then you moved your podcast, you lose all that
debate and then you moved it to blueberry. Well, you not only
lose your stats, this you don't just lose them. They're
completely different.
Oh, yeah. So presentation everything. Yeah, of course.
The numbers, the numbers say okay, Let's say that you took,
you know, for a fact that you moved 99 99% of your audience
from, from your home from your feed at a cast over to your feed
at at Lipson. When you made the move, you know that your
audience followed you. But for some reason, your stats show
completely different numbers now than they did on the previous on
the previous host. is because they track numbers differently
even between IB compliant hosts. The stats don't come across
right all the time. They don't come across matching.
That doesn't surprise me obviously.
Yeah. And so. And the reason is because everybody treats things
slightly different. So, for instance, there are some bots
out there that download a lot of mp3. Do you know this because
the show notes gets hammered all the time. So there's bots out
there that are constantly downloading this stuff? Well, if
a bot happens to parse your feed and downloads it in the user
agent string is something like FFmpeg or some Yeah, some mod.
Right. You, you could there's hosts that do count that as a as
a an eye Bay compliant download.
Wow. Okay, I can see the discrepancies and where they
come from.
Yeah. And so then there's other hosts that say, That's not
legitimate traffic. So we're going to exclude that from the
stats. So then, so each host is making their own decisions about
within the confines of the AI based ads, rules. There's lots
of leeway to make those decisions. And then to separate
what is an apple podcast download? What is apple core
media? What's an Android download all these kinds of
things, right? So um, and here's another way, it was explained to
me, let's just say that you have an office building with view and
five of your buddies all sitting in a cave together. And you all
listen to the same, same one
one na t address? Exactly. You're gonna guess always been
the problem?
Yeah. So how do you differentiate this? And the I
this the idea? We came up that the fix for this, and I think
it's brilliant. is for podcast downloads for podcast apps, to
put an extra query parameter on the end of the URL when they
download the file. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, we're doing
something similar with with appending. A, because we had,
there's a similar problem with web apps. So like, pod friend,
when pod friend or pod verse shows up in a download stats and
a log for a podcast, they show up as like Firefox or
Chrome, right? Mm hmm.
So what what we've had to do is put in an extra query parameter
on the end of the download, it says, it's like underscore from
equal pod friend got it that that way, it shows up in the
logs that this is not Chrome, this is actually a web app. This
is something similar, but it works a little bit different.
What you would put on the end of the query, as you'd put an
additional query parameter on the end of the download, that
would be something like underscore, Gu ID God equals
such and such. And I've, I've already implemented this on the
podcast index website, website, player. So if you go to the
podcast index, play website and click on any and just search for
podcasts and click play it, it is already doing this. It is
attaching the underscore gu ID to the end of the download URL.
So like James Cridland, if you go check your logs right now,
for pod news or pod land, you should be able to find some
downloads in your logs with the underscore gu ID parameter on
the end of it. Right, and the underscore get parameter is made
this way. When some when a when an app wants to play or download
a file. You just create a random gu ID. It doesn't matter. It
doesn't have to be based on anything. It doesn't have to be
the hash of anything. Just create a sufficiently random RFC
compliant gu ID string. Then you pin it to that download. He pin
it to that URL.
I see so
every time That app plays that your plays that URL or downloads
that URL. It always has the same gu ID attached to it. That tells
you that tells you exactly how many times each person, each
specific person downloaded or played that that episode. But
without ever, ever compromising any sort of privacy because the
value is completely random and made up.
Yeah. And it goes away.
Yeah. So I, for instance, so
let me ask you a question. Because if I come back, and I
play that podcast again, does it maintain my that, that, that ID
that that we're sending? was to create a new one for a new
session?
No, it creates the same one every time.
Okay, no matter what podcasts you as long as you
know, that note note, this is per, per, per, per enclosure?
Ah, perfect. Okay. Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, so if my if every time I play Episode 14 of podcasting,
2.0. Me Dave Jones, every time I play that from pod friend, it's
gonna send the exact same good to, to our, to our CDN, to get
that thing. So if you play the same episode, it's gonna be a
completely different good. And when you when you start playing
Episode 15, you'll get a new good, yeah, it'll always be the
same for that episode, too.
So so what you need now is you just need all apps to adhere to
that.
Yes, you need all the apps to begin to epin to do that
technique and append that string. And then instantly, you
have perfect stats. And there's nice No, it. So here, and here's
the way that it's implemented for the developers, if you want
to kind of help me jumpstart the things through on this is that,
so what we're doing is, I've made it where, when you when you
begin, when you hit the play button on the download on, on
the website, we hit the play button on an episode on the
website, it will create a random gu ID and then save it in
browser local storage. With, with the key being a hash of the
URL, that's being that's being played just the enclosure URL,
just to make this hashing it just to make sure that no funky
characters get in there. Because Rocky, right, he take is going
to make a hat makes a Sha 256 hash, saves that into browser
local storage. and the value is that good. So every time you
play an episode, it checks first in local storage to see if that
value exists. If it does, it just grabs it out of local
storage and sticks it on the end, if it if no value exists,
it creates a new wind it sticks it on the end and saves that one
in local storage for the future.
Oh, nice.
I like it. So that's how this works. And the only the only
time that would ever get screwed up is if somebody clears their
local storage, which is not, which is not frequent enough to
really put that big of a margin of error on it. Right? That
this, this is to me. In in as we go forward out, I would like to
push this as we go forward.
The person who outlined this technique to me he's gonna write
a white paper about it and that kind of thing.
And so it'll it'll become a fleshed out more. This technique
to me. I think it solves stats. 100% is completely anonymous.
It's not it to me, it's it's, it is the proper fix.
Why has no one come up with this before? It seems simple,
elegant, easily easy to implement?
I don't know. That's a good question. And
will I be look at this and say, Hey, finally we got something
good or?
Oh,
well, we'll find out I guess.
Yeah, I hope they will. I mean, because to me this this belongs
sort of in the world of the open podcast, analytics Working
Group. Yeah. I feel like those guys would read would be the
proper place for this stuff to land. So the only the question
the the natural question that comes up to me is it's not a
question. They see how to express this. What I think is
probably obvious to most people, hopefully it is. It there are
there are plenty of podcasters out there. They're don't want
accurate stats, right? Because their own the beneficial side of
bad stats. Yeah,
this is you're nailing it with this. Yeah, not everybody wants
to actually have the real numbers. It may be
disappointing. Yes.
Yeah. And this is this,
by the way is always the issue. This is why all these systems
exist and why they're closed loop and closely guarded and
protected because no one wants to know the actual numbers.
No, no. Okay. Play does play the mama Knows Best thing. But in
this episode, we're talking about adjusting to fame. We'll
discuss when it all started, how we've dealt with it as a family
and some of the pitfalls that have come along the way. Let's
get into it.
Before this episode, a quick question, how do you spend an
urn at the same time with Chase freedom unlimited 3% of
drugstores and 3% on dining including takeout and eligible
delivery services? Plus 5%.
Does it just keep going with the Add?
Yeah, keep keep gravel purchase through Chase.
Chase. Make more of what's yours. Learn more at chase calm
slash mama knows best.
Okay, wow, the interesting. This is my favorite. This is my new
favorite pot. My new favorite not a podcast on Spotify. Yes.
Yeah. So number one, because it's it's so bad. You know, but,
but I like hearing the ad. So they had an ad for Chase Bank.
Yeah. And followed by Folgers followed by McDonald's at
three in a row.
Yeah. So as the as the resident podcast advertising expert.
Well, what does that say? Who is your audience when you have an
ad when you have three ads when you have Chase Bank, Folgers and
McDonald's? Who exactly is your audience?
She's Folgers? Yeah, well, these are? That's a good question.
Clearly, they have some data on you, Dave, since you're the one
that got it. You obviously eat McDonald's you drink Folgers
coffee and you use Chase Bank
as three the the only one of those three I've ever done is
McDonald's. So like this is a podcast about chicks promise
this doesn't just apply cast. About a tick tock superstar like
this this 19 year old girl who's the like number two around take
time? Why is there a Folgers add in there? I don't get it.
Somebody
that could be that they're just filling up the inventory that
they promised to put out there. This is what I had. This is just
randomness.
Yeah, well, just the same thing with political ads. During this
last cycle. The kids were getting a five year old kids
were getting Joe Biden commercials for their little,
uh, you know, Sesame Street or something. The the trickery
works on all ends. I mean, I've been in that business long
enough to know if we can shove some stuff into someone else.
And it won't really get noticed as not being the demographic to
do it.
So here's my pitch. The obviously there is I'm canceling
obviously, because it's not it's not that obvious. It's not that
obvious. Here. My pitch is if the open podcast ecosystem has
accurate stats, it may hurt initially. It may suck for some
podcasts where all of a sudden they're reporting, you know, 10
million downloads, and now they've, they've actually got to
fess up and report two and a half million. Mm hmm. I don't
know. It may hurt. But the alternative for advertisers is
that advertisers are in a closed system with with somebody like
Spotify, where there's potential skullduggery going on and what
you don't exactly know what you're you don't exactly know
what you're getting. I mean, like can you trust those
numbers?
I'm shocked Yeah,
like so I guess what I'm trying to say in a roundabout ways that
this could be a way with accurate stats. I know people
are making a lot of money. Some people are making a lot of money
on bogus stats probably. But with actual Curious stats, it
can make the podcast, the open podcast ecosystem more
attractive to advertisers because they feel like they're
getting a better, they feel like they're getting a better deal
or even direct relationships podcasters have with sponsors
for live host reads, which I think is still a lot of the
power of a podcast is how you can promote a product. And you
can do it quite transparently. But to be able to say, Okay,
here's how many people are actually listening to that
segment, that part of it. Not fast forwarding, this has always
been a big issue. I think it's a great idea. We should we should
push this, we need to give it a name. Give it a name and push it
and it's open. I put their link in the show notes. Is it the
open podcast? analytics working group? Yeah, they're
that dia James. And about and a bunch of the hosts are involved.
I smell James all over this.
Yeah.
I'd like it.
Another thing that in the end, I mean, as the index i think we
because yes, we are committed to a feature. Without we are
committed to the value for value model a feature without
advertising. We want because we we, we definitely see that as a
feature. We see advertising is censorship, all of that, you
know that. But also, I mean, I think there's a realization and
there's a bridge that has to happen between how do I get
from, from where I'm at now to there, and you can't necessarily
just cut it off. And so people are, there's gonna be a
coexistence that needs to happen in the podcast industry is
better if the stats aren't a bunch of shenanigans. And, you
know, like at the end of that, that mama knows best thing that
was playing. So here's, again, here's Spotify, who's supposed
to have, you know, surgical precision, advertising and
light, and they're supposed to have all the stats. Yeah.
Well, now now remember that, that what they're doing is
they're linking their user profiles to the stats. So yeah,
so yeah, and they know a lot about a user's musical
preference, which they claim tells them a lot about a person,
which I believe, I don't know how they break it down. But
yeah, so you know, they they have all kinds of cross
references to know what's going in there. I've never liked that.
I've never liked programmatic ads for this very reason.
Most of my question is, why did they have to throw at the end?
On the Chase Bank commercial? What did they have to throw at
the very end of that? Find out more at Chase Bank, blah, blah,
blah, slash mama knows best. What do they have to get the
follow up confirmation there? Do they not trust this? Oh, that's
a good point. Yeah, it's a good point. You're saying that? Well,
I guess that's for conversion? I mean, you can you get the stats,
but the conversion to an actual someone going to a service?
Which is there separate deal there that the conversions pay
more?
Yes. If so if someone hears the ad, that's one thing. If they
convert, and they go there, and they identify, they heard it on
slash radio or slash tv or slash mama knows best? Yeah, that's
the conversion fee. And that's, that's better. And we're clear
reasons. Well, yeah, I like, I like this idea a lot. Okay. And
I wouldn't mind having it just for myself. But this doesn't
have to be an advertising play. I just like to know for myself
who's listening where I mean, I've seen stats on Apple, I
enjoyed looking at those. But let's blanket it. Let's get
everybody to implement this. This is This seems relatively
easy, something we can all do. And we'll push it really hard.
And if he doesn't like it, then we'll start our own alternative
advertising agency.
Yeah, the PA baby united podcast.
podcasters. United pee the poo. poo. And and as an addition, if,
if app developers would consider looking at some of these
community chapters, this is the main reason I use pod friend is
that's a whole additional piece of content. If you say hey,
visit, visit the website, Chase bank.com. Slash mama knows best.
That would pop right up in a chapter window with a URL link.
Click it right there. Click it, tap it, whatever you want to do.
Yeah, these
these conversion, these
things work.
I mean, it really works. that converts right in your face,
man. It's like boom, and you can't get any easier than ever
convert than that. I mean, is it because it's right there on the
screen.
Interestingly, the podcast app can also start to create his own
statistics for things like conversion
Yeah, true. Because it's because it knows because it's right
knows it knows the conversion. Yeah. It knows. You got some guy
in Denmark, who knows?
There's either like there's a lot of there's, there's, I think
that the market, that piece of the market that overcast and
podcast addict has carved out for themselves are based on a
few things, and one of which is privacy. And they're very
privacy focused. And that's, that's good. I mean, that's
fantastic. Yes, that's absolutely a good thing. And for
that reason, they have resisted the constant calls for them to
open up their their stats. So this would be a way for those
guys not to open up their stats, but still give meaningful
intelligence to other podcasters. They don't have to
open up anything at all. They just tack that string on the
end. It's completely anonymized. And that shares in this system
so that other podcasts so that their fellow podcasters can
benefit from it. Yeah. But without without breaking their
own, you know, without breaking their own private policy, you
know, their own
whatever you privacy. Privacy Policy.
Yeah, without violating their integrity. Yeah, there you go.
Yeah. It's I think it's in, you know, I've already done it. It
took me seriously, like less than less than 30 minutes. Well,
we're
calling it anybody. Can we have a name?
It's the open podcast statistics. We're calling it
ops.
Ops. I just made that up to do it. That's the parameter. Yes.
Good.
The ops good, which has been determined by the Pooh as
podcasters united.
Is that the show title ops do it by the
I put fourth quarter in there dumb dumb enough. I come up with
my titles beforehand for this show. trying something
different. sad about it now?
No, I like it. When you talk sports. It's great.
Hey, let's think it was thanks some people unless yet
to say the ad stuff makes me feel
gross. Yeah, dirty. So now let's thank some people. This is a
value for value podcast. The entire project podcast index has
value for value. outfall, there will be enough for Dave and I
and anyone to take a salary. Although it would be great as we
move forward. In the meantime, we like keeping everything
running. And the way it works is if you get any value out of this
podcast, but out of what podcast index is doing, as we continue
to preserve podcasting as a platform for free speech and
retool it into a plat platform of value for all participants
for the entire ecosystem. And I should say uninterruptable
value, we need help, then we need help by you supporting the
entire project. And you can do that by going to podcast
index.org. Scroll down to the bottom there's a big red Donate
button you can also donate to a lightning app. And well, we had
a sad puppy on the last show.
The sad Puppy was gold. I mean it was
so yeah, in our when we were talking about only two donations
that came in boom up on the on the chapter image is a sad puppy
giving giving us that look like Oh
no. Sad puppy send a trimmer through the forest. And yeah,
there's like so many donations this week. It's been fantastic.
Oh, cool.
Oh, it works. Oh my goodness. Well, this is Yeah, that you
just need to remind people it's what I always say. Just need to
remind people.
Okay, whenever look, people whenever donations go down.
You're gonna get the guilty puppy. That's
just gonna pop out. Yeah, now we need a little Tinker Bell who's
happy and flying around. We have donations.
Oh, yeah, we get a lot of some good ones too. So the first one
is from RSS calm. And Benjamin Richardson. Oh, who
helped us already with a with a pod news sponsorship, which was
fantastic.
Yet while he followed it up in a big way. $1,075 donation and
Whoa, whoa. Holy moly. That that is that doesn't deserve a
podcast or cool person.
does deserve what?
The podcasts are cool. I so I mean, I
know. Yes. We go
podcasts are cool.
podcasts are cool. Wow. Did you have a note? He say anything?
Yeah, he's got a note. Yeah. Yeah. And I made sure it was
okay to read. He said, David Adam, this is given an
appreciation for the hard work and foresight podcast index
represents. We're excited for the future because of the work
being done in the present. Thank you for your leadership and
dedication. A special thanks to all those folks in the trenches
making it happen without the time and talent of Martin, James
Tom CSB. Kevin and many others. We know this wouldn't be in.
This wouldn't be anywhere. Oh 2021 and all the possibility it
holds your friends@rss.com ps we put some extra money in there so
you guys can have a drink on us. You deserve it.
75 bucks for drinkin. Yeah. That's really nice. That is
that's humbling. I really appreciate that.
Yeah, me too. I emailed him back. I was like, hey, like,
this is your
fat finger. This What happened? Yeah.
Like, we want to buy you a drink. Let's make that happen.
Thank you. Thank you for the very kind. Thank you. So rss.com
Yeah, and we're happy. We're gonna have those guys on the
show in January.
Yeah. So the booking you're like producing this thing now, man.
Now I'm doing everything. You got the crumble notes. You could
use booking the guests. You're, you've got the one liners up,
man.
You need me at least some stuff for you.
Okay, I hit record. Let's
see. Let's see. We got another one. This is from Dred Scott.
Oh, my goodness.
And he said his note was answering the call Keep up the
great work. And he donated 333.
Dred Scott, he's doing chapters for us already. He's doing
chapters for no agenda. I mean, this guy's phenomenal.
Do we have them in? Don't we're gonna get him like a Sphinx
node. So you can get some some cut in?
Yeah, I'm getting a whole bunch of Sphinx node codes from Paul,
so I can start handing them out that they're working on spinning
up a crap ton of nodes.
And tried to create one this morning. And is that delayed?
No, it's all too late. And it's probably a bad time right now.
starting up these nodes channels have to be created. So it takes
some some on chain off chain processing. Okay. And that cost
cost a little much now with the the fees are high at this
moment.
Oh, yeah. Like,
there's a lot of a lot of stuff in the mempool. He said sounding
like he knows what the hell he's talking about.
I don't even know what a mempool is.
Yeah, trust me. You don't?
That's that's the backlog of transactions waiting to take
place. Right?
Well, it's stuff competing to get into the block.
That's right. Okay. So it's back. The higher the higher the
mempool backlog, the higher the transaction fees, because people
are wanting Yes,
they want to get it. Exactly.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that's Dred Scott. Thanks.
Thank you very much dread. And he's doing the chapters and
doing a great job. I just, that's what I saw. Someone else
was trying to integrate or something else?
I don't know.
Anyway, I got to catch up and show you I get so behind one on
Thursday. I just can't catch up. Because I'm doing the show. And
and I get behind like, oh, man, what's been going on
we talking about? Yeah, it's you get lost? Yeah. Let's see. This
one is. Okay. So what's what's the naming protocol here? If you
got a C this is from sir dude named Ben defender of megawatts
this donation is from Shai uses real name to produce keep him
sir. Yes, sir. Do name Ben.
Yeah, that's probably better.
All right. So this is from sir dude named Ben $100. And he
says, keep free speech alive. We need it now. More than ever,
sir. dude named Ben, defender of megawatts. Ah,
thank you. The megawatts feel good. Yeah.
Yeah, that this is a good. It's just it makes you just makes you
feel good. When everybody jumps in there and just gives you it's
not just the donations. It's the nose,
nose. Yeah. Of course. It's the beauty of the model, man. And
you could be reading a note that goes by gold now.
Or motherfucking
cashapp. Or
Casper mattress Ed says right? Hey,
hey, you know, for Christmas. I got David pair of Tommy John's.
Because I want Dave to be comfortable when he's
podcasting.
It's Yeah, I'm wearing them all the time. It's my favorite. It's
my favorite underwear now or whatever. Yeah. I forget See,
that's the part of my model I forget to put in here. We need
to change the podcast we get to throw in a native ad once in a
while got to do it. Got to do it that we don't disclose. Yes. So
Benjamin Bellamy from caste departure, sir donation. $45.70.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, he
says congratulations for what you've accomplished in 2020.
blocked funding transcript chapters sound bright sound by
previous URL ID value and cast a pod has them all. Yeah,
I was gonna say cast the pot is a very interesting product. If
you want to sell hosts, that's the way to go, man. That's the
badass dashboard. And he would probably be interested in in the
stats conversation as well.
And knowing how fast he puts stuff in there is probably going
to be done by the end of today.
That's the crazy thing is like, when you're dealing with, I'll
just call them the web guys. They're able to do stuff so
quickly.
Yeah, because, you
know, like with hyper capture, which I really like that app, I
think it's of the app apps. It's very advanced, certainly with
its chapters and and the feedback loop, which I love. You
know, he's got, he's got to put it in for another update. And
it's just painful.
Yeah, I had a couple guys, buddy, say dinner with on
Wednesday, and hadn't seen in a while, too. We're catching up.
And I was telling him about the index and the wild stuff we were
doing. And they're both Android guys. And so they were like,
what the one of my one of these guys runs podcast. And I said,
Well, you know, you need to get on Sphinx. And I was, you know,
I said, I'll set you up a node and all this stuff. And here's a
what, what podcast app should I be using as my main app or
whatever? So what do you have now? You like stitcher?
Oh, no,
no, no. Get off.
You need to go to upgrade.
Yeah, so I get and had him go get hyper catcher. Yeah. They
were like, Oh, this is cool. I'll show them the chapters and
all that stuff. Oh, nice. To me, and I'm just I'm sorry. Not
hyper catcher.
podcast addict. Okay. Also, guys.
Yeah. applicators only on iOS. Yeah. They're both Android guys.
But let's see. Benjamin said. Congratulations, what you
accomplished in 2020 locked funding transcript chapters,
soundbite previous URL, Id value and cast a pod has them all.
We're already working on podcast location. I can't wait to see
you guys. What do you guys will bring in 2021. We have a few
surprises for you as well. Oh, okay. All right.
Nice. surprises like we'd like surprises.
A says thank you. Really. I mean it from cast upon.
Thank you. Casta pod Benjamin. Fantastic. Thank you.
We had
a reminder, for those of you on savings chat. If you haven't
pegged that value slider you better do it right now. All the
way up all the all the way to the top please. A th
Okay, so we got a donation from see Cameron. Cameron white, he
says for $33.33 and just says no note.
I thank you very much magic numbers all around love it.
That that exclamation point was not actually in there. That was
an editorial. Let's see. Make sure there's no that's not a
moment. Okay. So David Langford gives doll $20 and two cent
donation. Oh, and a palindrome the next Yeah. The next one is
$20. So he barely edged out the next donation. He did this. He
did it. He did it. Yeah. It's like he knew it. It's like he
knew what he was doing.
Was there no.
Yes. Yes. Yes. long note. I want to see this is David David
Langford. I wonder if maybe you're thinking too small with
podcasting. 2.0 I've been listening to and you're gonna
tell me if you recognize any of these names, because I've been
listening to an indie pop singer songwriter, Mindy Gledhill.
ringabel know, me. I've been listening to an indie pop singer
songwriter Mindy Gledhill a lot lately. Her rabbit hole album
has been helping me go through my faith crisis turned
existential crisis turned to divorce. Yes, I had already paid
the $12 for her mp3 album from amazon music, but I wanted to
send her some extra value for the value of her music and her
value her music has been given to me. Guess what? There's no
mechanism to give music artists more money.
Ah, there you go.
And they aren't touring right now. I had to. I had to internet
stock her and send her a check in the mail. I hope it's the
correct address. Well, but I was thinking about your lightning
Bitcoin payment system for podcasters. Couldn't you do the
same thing for musicians? Yes.
Yes. And and to reiterate, I think this is where this whole
value block comes in. If we look at the basic mechanism Have an
RSS feed in an odd way. If you put an album in there and we had
the per episode splits, you could actually do the royalty
payments for anyone who worked on the song The writing the
composing down to musicians down to the tape op if you want the
engineer and they can get payments for every single time
someone listens to it. Absolutely. I track Yeah, I see
a lot. A lot of possibility for this system. It is not in my
mind. None of it is regulated to it has to be a show or anything
like that. And you want to use this mechanism, please. It's
perfect for it.
Yeah, I mean, you could go per track.
And you could do your bonuses. You know, you can move some
extra extra SATs like ah like this, this actual this this
lyric in the song I like this boost it right there.
I didn't know evidently Dolly Parton has like the greatest
publicist ever because she is all over the place right now.
harden is an American institution.
Yeah, I mean, like she there's a PR push for her going on right
now. This is off the train. Oh,
she probably has a Christmas special.
Yeah, so a documentary of her a few weeks ago, and I didn't
realize that one of her big songs where she's first sort of
broke out a country and went crossover. I came into the night
it's a it's the core spot and popular but Jolene, know when
Jolene, because she wrote that one. This is one that she didn't
write, but people think nine to five. Now she wrote that one
too.
I was gonna say there's not a lot of songs I know that she
didn't write.
That's what I drew attention to this one is because this
particular song everybody thinks she wrote it, but she didn't. It
was somebody else. That she picked it because it was like
her first crossover non country hit. And so she specifically
chose it to kind of get a feel for what that would be like. And
oh, okay, okay, I'm reading I'm reading through the Wikipedia
now all I can do was the album and let's see what was the big
hit from that she had Sandy gallon as her manager Sandy
gallon is a living legend it now that's that's not a publicist.
But Sandy Gallin knows everybody.
That's the guy from New York, right?
I even know the guy or gal. Honestly, the name is super,
super well known. trying to think what was it? Was it No, it
wasn't the stuff she did with Emily Emmylou Harris.
Huh? No, wasn't that this was? Gosh, this was maybe late, my
girl
higher and higher. No. 76 probably. heartbreaker
heartbreaker. Here you come again. How about that one? Yeah,
that's it. Come
again.
You go. That's it? That's exactly right. Yeah, it was that
one was not written by her. Ah, so this is a long way of saying,
yeah. You could give royalties to the writer. per, per track.
Mm hmm. You know, you split that thing out anyway. Anyway, you
want to? That was a long way of talking about lightning. I'm
glad we did that, though. Yeah.
See More, more from David Langford. He says, Can you do
the same thing for musicians? Yes, you can treat each artist
like a podcast and each song like an episode.
You bet each season like an album. Yep.
I think you should fly to Provo, Utah and have a meeting with
Mindy about getting indie pop artists on board with music
streaming. 2.0. Love your main David Langford. wildon.
Love you mean it. And thanks for the note, man. I hope
everything's okay. I'm glad I was able to help you through the
hard times. That's what music does podcasts do it too for lots
of people.
If anybody wants to fly me to Provo, Utah game, just say I
want to turn it down. Okay. Do you know the beautiful the state
with the highest percentage of swingers in the whole country?
Yes, that has been a no agenda topic. Thanks for reminding me.
Oh, is it?
For ACC knows these kinds of stats for some reason I'm not
sure why.
Also very always very well represented on the Pornhub stats
to break it down. by state. It's true. Let's see. The last one is
anonymous, a single donation for $20. And he just says no shout
out native just want to support your efforts. Thank you for your
courage. Thank
you. We appreciate it. Thank you for your courage, great value
for value. That's how it works. All you got and we're pretty
darn transparent. There's There's our income. It's been a
good week though this was fantastic, especially with the
with the Benjamin at RSS calm. Yeah, very very much appreciated
but doesn't matter how much it is, is the value that you
attribute to it that we appreciate. And for the entire
podcast index.org project which as Benjamin already alluded to,
in this note, it's a whole lot of people contributing their
time, their talent and their treasure. If you got some
treasure to part with and we really appreciate it, podcast
index.org scroll down to the bottom, there's the big red
Donate button. Yes, smash that. And I think also if you have a
funding tag compliant what podcasting 2.0 compliant podcast
app, there should be a little Donate button in the app right
now. Which pops up smash that to smash it, smash that
we get for this. For the time being we are making more revenue
on this podcast than Harry Prince Harry and Megan. Because
they had started they're
not even they're not allowed to use the the Royal Highness
monikers. But I think Spotify is ignoring that and just using it.
We'll see. We'll see how long before that just like the
Michelle Obama podcast has to be opened up and will show up in
the index. Yeah, it won't take long. There was a guardian
article that I just wanted to touch on briefly called sinister
sounds. podcasts are becoming the new medium of misinformation
with a big picture of Joe Rogan
insinuation that the guilt by association is so gross.
It truly is and and what this article is saying. And they
highlight a couple of podcasts something I listened to
coincidentally. And they say well, this is a problem here. We
don't have this. They're literally saying and who wrote
this article.
Hey, why don't
Ariel Bogle Ariel mogul is really calling for more
gatekeepers and more ways to shut people down who's who speak
bad. It is the antithesis of this entire project and go to
the what should be done.
better and more moderation is only a partial answer to a more
difficult question. They don't really have an area doesn't
really have a conclusion. They're about what really should
it be done. But it's about moderate. But ultimately, it's
about the content has to be moderated. We have to have
trusted sources to moderate moderate the content. Well, I
disagree. I mean, we are the trusted source. So you know that
what shows up in podcast index.org is 100% not moderated.
That's what you want to know. And if you want to create some
moderated thing, then go to podcast index.org sign up sign
up as a developer and created a query so you get only the thing
that podcasts that you approve, or an exclusionary one if you if
you need any extra API calls, we'll help you out. But man
you're selling yourself short. You really are selling yourself
short.
If you want to if you want to screw over your customers and
they will help you do it I guess but yeah, I mean it's not gonna
be any fun. My answer to that whole thing is that Matt a BS
article Do you read his article about the YouTube ban? No, I
didn't know I missed it
was really good and he's the his his comment was you know because
you know
oh it was Oh yeah, I did see come through and substack it was
it was all about canceling wasn't it wasn't just about
YouTube was about
it was about YouTube's blog post where they said they were gonna
write in in you know, any was it ban any election and
misinformation about that the
vaccine any of that?
Yeah, so his this line got me said if you want a population of
people to start thinking and election was stolen from stolen
from them, it's hard to think of a worse method than ordering a
news blackout there's just been demonstrated that the last major
blackout was a fraud he's absolutely right. Well, you want
to pay if you want people to stop believing that you like
your if you think there's a certain category of information
that is that is quote unquote, misinformation. The worst thing
to do to try to fix it is to do is to moderate it and then add
or remove it. It's like trying to sit tell your daughter that
she can't date somebody some gas.
Yeah, that always works. Yeah, that works out.
Yeah. Me and your mom disapprove of john, you know, or whatever.
I mean, it's usually been going off with john immediately. Yeah.
Out the window. Yeah. Well, we're against that. That's why
we created it. Mission number one, very much achieved.
Preserve podcasting as a platform for free speech.
There's no feed that that we is no feed that will that will push
out. Everything is welcome. All as long as it's valid, valid
XML. We're good to go on all that. And we continue our quest
in retooling podcasting, as an uninterruptible supply of value
to the entire ecosystem. And we'll have more next week. No
doubt there'll be all kinds of maybe it's next week. Is that
Christmas?
Yeah, we're, uh, we're, we're gonna be recording early so that
we can, so we can do a drop on Christmas Day.
What are we doing again? Do I have that in Mike, do I have
that? Uh, do I have you on my schedule? Let me see.
Yeah, I'm so busy. With your guy. Yeah. Let
me see. I have a week.
Early with James and Sam sets set the I think,
yeah, what do we do?
I think it's Tuesday. Tuesday. 22nd.
Well, I'll make sure I have any mic. Maybe I'd maybe I got
confused. Well, we'll make sure it happens. Because that's
the one we're doing his time zones Australia. So he's, we're
gonna be right. Yeah, okay. Yeah. But it'll be the 23rd for
him. Yes.
Yeah. The 23rd of 2021. He's actually a whole year ahead.
It's crazy, though. So
we're gonna we're gonna record with him. And then he wants us
to stick around for a bit and record. They want to interview
us for pod land. sex. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But we'll do that.
We're doing that one on. And then that'll come out on the
Christmas Day. And then we'll do the next week is New Year's Day.
Yeah. Oh, we
got doing okay.
So we're gonna do another another Tuesday.
I'm excited. I'm excited to talk with James. I'm very excited to
see what he's got going on.
We don't stop for Christmas, folks.
We we really don't do just keep pushing ahead. What, what to see
what else is on deck? Do we have any other any other business to
take care of any other namespace talk just as well. Before I do
anything, please tell us where we could find Frederick's
podcast that is featuring the one and only Mr. Dave Jones,
because I say Frederick's podcast, but I should actually
put it in the show notes. What's it called? podcast?
Cut snack. cod snack. Yeah. KOD s ma ck. Yeah. Christopher I
seen posted what it meant, but I can't remember what he said.
Like he's Swedish like a little snack. Is that what it is?
I thought so.
It sounds good to me. Let's go with that. No, yeah,
I saw the translation somewhere as well. Okay, could snack. I'm
gonna put that in right now. Good snack, make sure that's in
the show notes. I'd love I'd really love the is this a
change? Is this something different that happened to the
website?
For what, when we noticed
did? I don't know. It just seems spiffy Etsy. And maybe it's
because I'm on desktop right now.
It looks so good. Oh, it does look good. Yeah, we did. We did
some changes to her, I say we don't plan to do some changes to
it and push it he just restructured the back end to
make it easier to maintain going forward. And it was it did make
it a lot better. Because I made those changes with the good, the
stats good. And it was a lot easier to handle. So I'm
thankful he did that. It didn't change the way it looks or
functions. But on the backside. It made it a lot easier to deal
with.
I just think it's kick ass looking. I like the whole thing.
It looks great. And we get to make the developer site look
like that because the API dev site looks like garbage.
Let me see developer.
Yeah, they API podcast. index.org. Looks like it's
not much there. Is there? Any man. All right. Anything else I
can do for you, Dave? How can I make your life easier?
Oh, no, I'm good. I just I'm having fun just thinking about
dance. I'm having fun
thinking about SATs. Set. Hello, everybody. I made that. He can't
spell stats. Without SATs. You got it. That's right. Special
thanks to Ruth rofi who created a little end of show mix for us.
He does Casco for Trent
MCs. I'm sorry Brophy does cast covers cast coverage.com which
also has rotating chapter images. We saw a demo of that
the other day. It looks very cool.
Yeah, and He's a jazz we got some in the show next.
Yeah, he's got too much time on his hands. I really it's
fantastic. I love this. All right, everybody. We will be
back again, with the Friday show. It'll be done a little bit
earlier, as you heard and we'll have James Cridland on from pod
news. So that should be that should be super exciting. And
we'll have lots of things to talk about. We'll unveil which
host is supporting the tags this week. Everything all coming up.
And Dave have yourself a great weekend, man.
I mean, you haven't ever built one.
Yes. As we get ready for Christmas. We're continue to
work on podcasting, podcasting. 2.0 We'll see you next week
everybody right here Till then bye bye.
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 podcast in this
dialogue for more information.
Play cast coverage, I'm not ashamed
of the gospel nice.
I'm not ashamed of the gospel.
Did a drop, drop, drop, drop, drop, drop, drop, drop, drop,
drop.
Cut it up man.
fast
fast fast.
Fast
drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip,
drip.
Laser precision surgical. Staff man laser procedures surgical
drop. Top to bottom we get the full stack man laser precision
surgical drop. Man laser precision surgical laser
precision surgical laser
precision surgical.
We have to be fearless and we have to move ahead with big
brass balls.
Brass balls,
brass balls, brass balls.
Brass balls. Drop.
pockets are cool.