Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0 for December 22 2023, episode
160/4 choice. Well hello Better late than never. Hello,
everybody. It's Tim once again for podcasting, the official
board meeting of everything going on a podcast today and in
the future we are in fact, the only boardroom that has red
velvet beanbags after dark. Everything happened at podcast
index.org The namespace all the goings on at podcast index dot
social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill
Country and in Alabama. The man who's got a big stream deck and
knows how to use it. Say hello to my friend on the other end
ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Jones.
Dave Jones: Oh, I've got the sweetest rig. Do
Adam Curry: you have the sweetest rig? Yes, your rig is
so sweet. That
Dave Jones: started the stream the stream deck courtesy of Adam
curry Christmas present app so right in front of the road
caster duo, which now the road caster do is elevated on on a
stand. Ooh,
Adam Curry: it's like it's got his own special little spot.
Well, hold on. I have a I have some special here on my own
stream deck. That's right, everybody. Welcome. board room
after dark. That's right, baby. Enjoy our red velvet beanbags
over the air. We got David sitting down there with his big
stream deck. And down under. You know he's upside down. Ladies
and gentlemen say hello to our friend on the way of the end.
Mr. Kyron down.
Kyrin Down: Hey, I'm buzzing
Adam Curry: you're buzzing you've got you got to chill,
man. You're in the boardroom after dark. It's like we got the
porn music going. It's like, you know. Challenge Challenge
downtown.
Dave Jones: I'm so happy right now. I was hoping that you would
get some after dark music. I hear bones.
Adam Curry: And I see the boardroom is Hello boardroom.
That's right. Steven be kicking back. That's right, man. That's
right. Want to talk? Way to go?
Dave Jones: How hard is it in Australia current is it 1000
degrees.
Kyrin Down: At this very moment. It's not too bad. We've had a
bit of rain coming. So it's I don't know, like high 20.
Something like that. Are you wearing? I don't know what
that's Fahrenheit.
Adam Curry: Are you embrace Vegas or where are you African?
Kyrin Down: I'm definitely embrace Vegas. Yes. Yeah. So
Adam Curry: he is a heatwave there. Yeah, yeah. I
Kyrin Down: mean, it definitely was feeling a bit it's mostly
muggy. It's just the the humidity.
Adam Curry: Weird, man. It's like, Christmas must just be
messed up.
Kyrin Down: I've never I've never had a white Christmas or a
cold Christmas. I've always been in a I was in Colombia for one
of them, which was just motto. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Hear about those white Christmases in Colombia?
Yeah.
Kyrin Down: It actually took about four hours from me landing
there to me being offered cocaine. So it was a little
slow.
Adam Curry: You must not have looked the part.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, that's the thing. Cotton Gin. 20 b 20
degrees C is 68 Fahrenheit. And the screwy thing about about
centigrade is that like every point one goes up, like 5000
degrees. So like, when you go from 20 to like, 20.8 year it
like, you know, you're boiling water.
Kyrin Down: It's confusing. I'd like to Kelvin when we're in
high school doing
Dave Jones: hanging out inside stores. Are you Yes.
Adam Curry: This is our year end. Are we going to do one more
before before the end of the year? Dave? I mean, we're done.
We're not gonna do one next next Friday. What is next Friday.
Dave Jones: Good with next?
Adam Curry: Why are we doing the specialist thing with chyron
right now why are we doing
Dave Jones: this? Because Karen's Great. Okay.
Adam Curry: Yes, Karen. Karen bore you by by any chance able
to watch the V four V Live concert? Down Under?
Kyrin Down: Yes and no. So I caught the firt the first one
the Bitcoin the one where it was where it was just Ainsley. So
yeah, definitely was able to participate in that, funnily
enough, right at this moment I had organized to chat with so TJ
the raffle Oh, sorry, for this exact time. And then you guys
message so I was like, oh, TJ Do you mind putting it a day
earlier?
Dave Jones: Oh, we bought TJ
Kyrin Down: Day a day earlier so we were actually recording that
as a Italy's second one was going on. So no, I didn't. I
didn't
Adam Curry: catch the so so sir. TJ the raffle is going to be on
the mere mortals podcast. Correct? Yeah. Nice. I love that
guy. I don't even know what it looks like. I love that whole
family. There's a lot of them.
Kyrin Down: There's so many like
Adam Curry: a million doorbells. That's, there's so I got an
email from Tom door from like, who is Tom? Like? I know, like
Curtis. I know TJ, then you know, what's the what's the dog?
What's the kid? The kids name? J dog J dog J dog? Yeah. Well,
Dave
Dave Jones: Willis always says, when somebody has a whole ton of
kids, like, they must think that they're really like, the world
needs a lot of them or something. They must think
they're really important. Well, they
Kyrin Down: did a really good, you know, when you list off,
like the alphabet alphabet as fast as you can. ABCDEFG. He did
that with all the names of his siblings, and it took like, a
minute.
Adam Curry: Dave, were you able to catch any of the live shows?
Dave Jones: Yes, I did not. So the first the first one was that
was the one from the meetup Wednesday night. Yeah. Yeah. So
the for the first one, we were at the movies with friends. And
I had a fired up podcast guru checked in like about, I don't
know, about 10 minutes into the movie and looked at it and made
sure that I was getting a video stream set must set to 1000 per
minute and just set it. Cool. So just want to stream sets. I'm
not gonna be able to watch it. But then I saw some of last
night's and it was killer man. It just seemed to be working on
all the apps perfectly. I was so happy.
Adam Curry: I mean, I was on both of them. There was a back
channel telegram group. It was kind of like, like David in the
cave with 400 and Algenol. You know, getting ready prepping for
the prepping to go to war against King Saul.
Dave Jones: lathering up the slings? Yes,
Adam Curry: it was. It was an unbelievable show of camaraderie
solidarity. Like it took me back to the very first cyber casts I
did, which was not even a thing in 1996. And we did the Grammys,
and we brought in T one line into the Shrine Auditorium. No
one's ever heard of that. Before then, and oh, yeah, T one. Oh,
my God, that's fast. That's broadband. One and one megabit,
one megabit per second, but up and down both ways. And it was
just the, the amount of collaboration and we had, yeah,
we had Davi das in Lithuania, because he was I guess back
home, getting his visa sorted out or whatever. He was back. It
was He was up all night until seven in the morning, both
nights. Sam Sethi was in the UK, Oscar marry. In the UK. We had
just it was like iron sharpens iron man, it was so beautiful.
How everybody was participating. And this you know, it's, it was
it was so much learning really, just to see how everything fit
together. I mean, we had a live wallet, switching the value
blocks we're switching which is balanced between Ainsley and
just loud. I'm talking about the second night, you know, so the
so they both got SATs for each other show but they you know,
the, the percentages different whoever was onstage, and it was
let me read because we had a whole portion postmortem today
in the same telegram group.
Dave Jones: And I feel left out of Philly and they what
Kyrin Down: was going on? Yeah, well,
Adam Curry: I mean, there was links all over the place. Yeah,
well, I felt like a blueberry was on site. And, you know, we
finally got a picture of blueberry. He's like, you know,
this like teenager and vans. So I was rapping. So Julie
Costello, Ainsley, his mom. She now she, of course was all over
this thing. And I'll read you what what she wrote, I'll skip
over some of the numbers stuff but she said, Okay. Thank you
all madly, deeply, sincerely, from the bottom of our Costello
hearts. A worldwide team of ragtag developers in both RSS
and noster with a touch of friendly competition, made the
dreams of one young art have made the dreams of one young
artists come true. And maybe just set in motion a music
Revolution like we've never seen before. Filled with lots of
hustle heart and even a little humility. We all pulled off a
Christmas miracle in Minneapolis. I don't have the
visibility into jails numbers by no everyone will eagerly be
awaiting some early results. And so she gave us a call She gave
us a total over between RSS and noster. And I have I have a lot
of thoughts about Nasr after this evening so RSS night one
3,650,868 SATs, but austere 3,000,262 953 SATs, there was a
Fiat donation which converted to 443 970. So I just showed up
with that night one total 7,357,791 SATs night to RSS
2,000,444 976 noster 1,000,824 775. So for a grand
total then she what she did is she, she added the nearly 4000
SATs since Ainsley arrived on the V four v scene in July, she
has made $6,742 compared to so that since July, compared to
$750 on traditional streaming in over four years. And she says we
are incredibly grateful to each and every person that stepped in
with their time, treasure and talent to make V for V come to
life. And it it was I get choked up about this stuff, I don't cry
a death or anything, but when when there's accomplishment,
that's when I get choked up. And when I saw the value block with
11 or 12 splits, everybody was included me Julie made sure that
everyone who was who was even though the apps of course have
their own, you know, fees or, or percentages that they take on
streams and booths, she added everybody in and I was blown
away, like Kuno that video works everywhere. I mean, this what's
what is going on video just kind of works. And it was it was it
was really so the noster side had tuned sir.io
Dave Jones: And yes, which I didn't know was a thing until
yesterday.
Adam Curry: Now I like to answer.io because it does
something that we on the RSS side do very poorly which is it
shows a running total of what you know there's apps with a
message so it just you know so you're watching the video or
you'd be listening but watching the video in this case and you
see a very much like a GoFundMe you know how GoFundMe if you go
there and you see just people with donation amounts and
there's no other interactivity other than someone may be
responding to someone with their with their own zap. And there
were people coming in with 100,000 sat booths there are
people coming in with in fact at one point let me just grab a
little audio here for a second I have they already put it up on
the archive Nice. Me go. So she was doing live booster grams.
I'll just give an example here. Why are you changing over we had
some more booths come through Marty Ben What is this? Is that
talking? I'm not sure 50,000
Unknown: SATs
Adam Curry: Okay, is that Buber? Yeah, thoughts on this
Unknown: 76 From NW through fountain saying live love laugh
lightning. I need a bell out here. Yeah. Reading this thing
is a red flag. Watch yourselves.
Adam Curry: Now let me give you the last thing she had several
segments. We might we might have an announcement. Yeah, so this
was almost that she had one more song. We're gonna do cherry on
top and then this happened.
Unknown: We've had just several I sat here and boosted 50,000
sets for front of house. Thank you. I appreciate you. We had
66 666 from Carolyn saying it's a very exclusive dance party in
the kitchen right now.
So perfect. Here. There have been so many people who have
made this night possible. And again Oh wow.
Let me let me count the zeros it goes Oh God. Okay, so
10203040506 zeros six zeros. How big of a boost is that? I think
that isn't million
Adam Curry: so anonymous came in with a million sat boost at the
end there. I mean, it was an and this is actually was this. I
think this might have been the Minneapolis night I can't
remember. I mean the meet up night regardless this this is
kind of what it was. And the second night just loud came on
was great to see him. He loved every part every bit of the part
I expected total cuz, I mean, it's like James Brown and Lenny
Kravitz had a kid you know, they had an orgy and out pop this
guy. That was that was really fantastic. So value for value
really one because of course, there was a little bit of a, you
know, hey, he's, you know, the Nasir guys are there's more
coming in from Nasir. There's more from RSS back and forth
back and forth. But obviously the whole concept and I think
between nostre and the value for value 2.0 teams if you want to
put it that way. You know, we both love Bitcoin we both or at
least the the mechanism that Bitcoin provides. And of course
we love blue will have value for value. What was I think, really
interesting and a lot of learning here. There was a whole
post more of the kind of just happened today, as everyone was
just reviewing, and then people starting to wake up all over the
place. And you know what, what really happened here? And there
was this question about how do noster and RSS work together?
You know, it's like, Should we be working together? Should we
not be working together? Oscar Mary jumped in with no pointer
to his noster nip 32 proposal about connecting zaps to booths
and having these translations for the splits in the middle.
Which was really interesting. But, and this is, so I kinda
want to take the discussion here, because I've been thinking
so much about that, and comments and booster grams and all these
things that we've been looking at for the past couple of years.
And And considering that nostre right now is basically a social
network, although the noster we call it a protocol, or what do
we call the protocol is political. Yeah. Okay. Although
that can be used for many other things. It's a social network. I
mean, that's even in an Oscar Mary's proposal. It's a social,
it's a social network. And we've been publishing what's the
actual tag called for comments, we call it social interact,
social interact. So we've been publishing social interact. And
you know, it's some of the apps show it you can't, you can't
actually respond from the apps. And I've also been doing this
soul searching and analysis of social media in my life and in
general. And so there's two parts to it. One is I saw
Twitter from day one, when it started was supposed to be a
podcast company. And they launched but they launched as
this microblogging site, all the way through what it is today,
with a transfer of ownership. You know, once they got rid of
the fail whale, and all that stuff, it became this, you know,
the social media. But there's a change of ownership and things
have changed. And I've also, you know, six, almost seven years
ago, I think I started no agenda social.com, which is a mastodon
social media site. And I've come to the conclusion that without
an obvious adult in the room, someone with power, who or you
know, some rules and regulations, it all becomes
shit. It really does. It becomes toxic. It becomes it's just,
it's horrible. And, and no agenda social. This has
happened, you know, the I gave up all control. And you know, we
have Aaron er, who's running it, he doesn't do anything. And I
can't post anything, because people just know, they think
it's funny. And whatever. It's all it's all. It's not really
nice. And it's the same as any comments. And I kind of
understand Dave Winer. Never wanting to have comments on his
blog, it would trigger him.
Dave Jones: Yeah, he would, he would always he would do it for
a little while, and then turn it off and say go right and go
write your own blog post. Right.
Adam Curry: And, and Twitter is kind of the same thing. I mean,
I, I've gone I've really made a study of Twitter over the power
x over the past few days. And I see people killing each other
shooting each other. Playing mean jokes, you know, trolling,
yelling, it's, it's shit. It's unchecked. It's just shit. And I
don't want I've I'm really stepping back from the comments
idea. You know, you have to have moderation. There's all these
things that come into play. And I think inherently the app
developers feel this and that's why they really haven't taken
that extra so we have it all there. It can work. You know, we
can blame act we can blame activity pub, but it's not
activity pub.
Dave Jones: Well, I mean, it's already it's already fully
operational own no agenda today. I mean, the pieces are there you
I mean, you have this experience that the it's it's not like
there's a lot ACC, at all
Adam Curry: correct. And so right now noster so the thinking
is, well, we Nasir can be the social piece to podcasting 2.0
And I'm just going to say no, nothing should be the social
piece. Because right now noster is everyone is kind of like
minded. Everyone's in the same vibe. But go ahead and go on
there and talk about pod ping built on hive and see what
happens. You will less fun. No, you won't last five minutes. So
as that grows, that too will become toxic unless they keep it
what it is. And that's very possible that it just remains
that but that's not really growth. And then so but what I
like is they've got wallets, you know, the and the promotion they
were doing for this concert was spectacular. They were promoting
eight people were were you know, I don't know what the what you
call it there. But they were reposting you know, they were
jacking each other up. And of course, with your nostril login,
you could go to tune sur.io And you know, the mechanism flowed
right over and people could zap now there's no concept of
splits, which I think is a problem. I've looked at I've
looked at at Oscars proposal. And its proposal includes a
payment verification, which references a payment
verification by some semi trusted provider, like podcasts
index fountain, lb curio, caster pod verse, wave, Lake, rss.com,
etc. And I will say, No, that's a very bad idea. But I've never
really heard of this proposal. So I'm just now diving into it,
that you don't want to be a money forwarder at all, from a
regulation standpoint, and you don't want to be Juden, you do
not want that, when a payment fails, someone's going to blame
you. This is not the way to go. noster if they want to do
splits, they should figure out their own splits. What I liked a
lot was the experience they showed with with you know, their
version of booster grams on a page and man, do I want this for
our apps? I really think doing it, what fountain does when
you're able to comment on it doesn't really matter to me. But
the idea that under as an episode is playing, right? So
right now I've I've kind of hijacked booster grams into
chapters, it's 5050 people who are on apps where it shows up as
a as in the table of contents when it shouldn't, they're
pissed off. They're actually people who see it, you know,
switch when they're driving in the car and they get pissed off.
But the idea of surfacing boosts booster grams, I think is a
very, very powerful idea. I think that that is what the
nostre people showed us how powerful that is. Just like
GoFundMe, you know, it's just a little acknowledgement you'd put
your little note in there. And it just kind of scrolls off. And
I think we should really, and I have ideas about it, but I'll
stop talking. I think that was very, very powerful. And as far
as nostalgia and and and podcasting 2.0 I think it's
great that we can do projects like this together, I think it's
great for value for value. It's great for the artist, if you
want to send booster grams, zap your wallet, zap your, your
podcast app and send the booster gram, I don't see this, this
connection working at all, and I think it's unnecessary. And I
personally, I don't want social social comments in my connected
to my podcast, I It's all triggering me just thinking
about it.
Dave Jones: As it was, I think we also need to make a
distinction between between things between live things and
and podcasts. Yes. And totally, you know, because Because luck
live events like this, you will I think a lot of this has been
worked out slowly over time. It out in other on other platforms.
So, like YouTube, let me like, you know, we can like YouTube or
not that it's they've, they've been through a lot of these
things. As far as user experience goes. The the user
experience of YouTube, is if you have a live stream, there's
there's there's ephemeral chat in the live stream, and I love
Adam Curry: chatting, I love chat and no one's implemented it
really. Right.
Dave Jones: And so then well, that we're, we're gonna do that.
And I mean, phase seven is chat is that XMPP
Adam Curry: is that because you know, the IRC chat? Yeah, is
great and but you know, people need to set up IRC chat for it
to work. Yeah, I
Dave Jones: mean, I think XMPP is going to be the first class
citizen and I agree, like with all this stuff, With all these
tags, you know, we try first and foremost to make the tag except
future proof. So they accept any protocol. Yeah. The problem with
namespaces in the past with with with podcasting is they, they
they tied themselves to a specific protocol and a lot of
instances. So we really got to avoid that this, the chat tag
has to be just like social Interact has to be flexible
enough to when the next big thing comes along, you just rip
and replace, you just plug that thing in. And it goes, yeah, so
but as far as like, you need that you need a sandbox to start
in to prove the things work. And to test and do all that kind of
stuff. And XMPP is probably the first class citizen for that it
makes most sense to me that, you know,
Adam Curry: what I felt about what I felt the chat, because we
had an ANZ hash Aynsley live room on the on the IRC server
that we that everybody uses. That was very exciting. It was,
um, that's a lot of what that Twitch does that that's what
your YouTube Live does. And this is this is available. I'm curio
caster has it, I believe, as the only one. But I think for live,
that is almost a requirement to have that. And I love that
because as you say it's ephemeral. And I don't mind it,
when like, when we do no agenda, people are like saying horrible
things, but it scrolls away, you know, it's not there forever,
it's gone. And that's fine. So I would love I would love to have
chat included in, in all of the live stuff. And in the apps
themselves. I think that's something that everybody could
come together on it.
Dave Jones: And it could be nostre too, if the nostril
people want care to do. Just like the value tag, the value
tag, the social interact, tag, the chat tag, all these tags are
if somebody cares enough about their pet protocol, to put it in
there and make the proof of concept and show that it works.
Go for it, there's nothing stopping you. Right that the the
focus that, you know, Bitcoin, and activity pub and XMPP these
sorts of things that we choose to have as proof of concepts out
of the gate to show like a sort of the first class citizen
stuff. Those are because they're, they're the things that
are most, you know, most time tested. They've been through the
wringer. And we know they work and there's lots of experience
with their development. But and it's stuff that we know as a
community. So that that stuff is, but nothing stops you so
like, eventually, over time ever, what's going to win. As
far as a protocol, what what becomes the protocol for
podcast, ephemeral chat will be whatever the community shifts
towards it, whatever the community puts his weight
behind, that's what we'll win. And we can't control that mean,
you know, it's like diverting for a second, the feeling of
hey, it was an interesting feeling watching these live
streams happen. Because, like, I wasn't really involved at all.
Adam Curry: Dude, I love this. We had nothing to do with it was
all other people that was a win, win, win.
Dave Jones: And like, like, it's like we it's like we birth a
child in the child lot
Adam Curry: like that. I grew up and did some stuff and Training
we call
Dave Jones: in like, we're like, oh, the you know, and we went
and watched the graduation ceremony. It was told but at the
same time, it was such a weird experience to have such a
monumental event where, where it wasn't a bunch of people,
depending on me for like, support and doing all this. It
was a sort of a brain twist. But I loved it at the same time. And
that's what if your project and if the project is successful, in
all of its different endeavors, and attempts and goals, one of
the things we can expect is that things are going to happen and
people are going to begin to use these things in ways that we
can't, can't
Adam Curry: even dream out. We don't want to dictate it at all,
Dave Jones: and we can't control it. Yeah, we can't say, you
know, this is the protocol you're supposed to use. Because
like we can say we can say this is the protocol we use, as far
as like me personally my protocol that I that I prefer,
but if somebody wants to go off and do something different, I
mean, we can't stop them. Open Source.
Adam Curry: Here's what it felt like to me. It felt to me like
tune sur should have been the video source inside the apps
with their with their chat except the chat would it would
be a split on the boost button does that make sense?
Dave Jones: I think as the I think a falling so if
Adam Curry: I hit a boost to Graham so I would be watching
this video in an app and then I hit a boost to Graham and the
splits fire off and there's an extra split there that hits the
tune sur.io system which I don't know if they accept key send or
not. So they so because they got nothing to this is the thing.
The nos Nasir it's all 100% to the to the artists wallet.
Tombstone got nothing out of it, which breaks my heart.
Dave Jones: Oh real well, it
Kyrin Down: was that chat appearing in the video it was
Adam Curry: underneath. No underneath right underneath
right underneath me. Just I mean, just like a GoFundMe you
know, and very similar to fountains. Although fountains
switches the screen, this is just video right in the middle.
And underneath it, you see the zaps coming in? And like that,
that is a good, that's a YouTube like experience. That's an
experience and people like that. And I saw people zapping and
saying something to another person who just just happen to
kind of scrolls off. So that was very chat like, although I don't
think he personally I like our chat because people can chat and
just say stuff. And then when you hit a boost, then the
booster grab the boost bot comes to life and it shows it in the
chat. I love that. That to me is the perfect way to do it. It's
just all the IRC
Dave Jones: experience of what happens on this show is
excellent. It just needs to be ported over to think something
that's well portable. I mean, like, you know, that's that's
that. So I like to finish that thought on YouTube, the YouTube
thing evolved into live live videos having a femoral chat,
and then non live videos. It's it's comments, right? And we
already have comments. But we don't, you don't have to see
them if you don't want to. But they're like the way that I like
the sort of ethic that evolves when when Geller May and in the
in that crew put comments put activity post comments into the
podcast index side, this sort of ethic was there, they're not
visible by default, you have to, you have to choose to go into
the comments. Right? And that doesn't mean everybody has to do
that. Maybe that doesn't fit with your app idea. But it's
just that, like, I think I think it sort of blunts some of those
concerns you have, with the comments stuff that I did. You
can you can live with this stuff all day long. And, and you never
see the comments, mostly until you choose to go there. Right.
But then within a femoral chat, like it's, it has a lot of it.
It doesn't have the downsides, that long term commenting social
networking, Gary agreed. So so it feels more safe in a sense,
when you're doing something like a live stream. That, you know,
is the the chat thing to put like the podcast chat tag, is
going to have to sort of have that in mind where this is
primarily a live stream mechanism. It doesn't it doesn't
mean that it has to be exclusively but it's primarily
that's where the idea live. So
Adam Curry: then there's the second part. And this is unique
to podcasting 2.0. And I was very wrong about this. I really,
really, really want to surface my booster grams in the app in
every app, I really want to surface them. I see that as a
huge benefit. I think it's, I've I've been looking at fountain
for a long, long time. And this, there's no toxicity, I don't
need to you don't I don't need to be able to comment on it.
That's okay, I just want people to see the booster grams that
have come in. I want them to be available on all of the podcast
apps, which to me, and you know, there's a lot of ideas floating
around. I love a boost bot service, you know, and actually
it should be, it should be just like chapters or just like
transcripts, it should just be yet another tag where there's an
external file and whether I pay someone as a service, like hyper
catcher, or whether I rip it out of helipad or do something
whatever it is. I would and I I would I think I'm gonna have to
propose a tag for that because I freely really enjoy that
experience.
Kyrin Down: Well, do you think it's worth distinguishing
between the two different ways of using the podcasting apps as
well because the when I first came to podcasting 2.0 And I
heard about cross cross AP comments. I was jazz because I
thought it would replicate an experience kind of like YouTube
and their comments, which I think are really cool. But then
I was thinking about it. And you know why you go into the YouTube
comments? It's probably because you're, you're slightly bored
with the video. And so you're, you're looking for something to
do. And so you see you go down now. And I don't think that's
how most people use a podcast app. But, you know, they'll
they'll turn it on, and even if it's on, the phone is still on,
and they're in their kitchen cooking, which is something that
I do. It's not like I'm needing a board and I'm needing to go
down to try and find some, whether it'd be more information
or someone else's reaction to it, or anything like that. The
live stuff is completely different, obviously and that
because that is so active and you're you're wanting to
participate you're trying to do something so obviously having
you know a live chat something that's really visible but yeah,
I'm I've kind of changed my tune on that as well, which is
booster grams and people willing to pay money to write something
and you notice with the booster grams as well, the very
different than the YouTube Variety Performance very they're
not, they're not chasing clout by writing the funniest joke or
the wittiest thing to get more up likes or anything like that
on it. So yeah, I definitely think that Mr. Graham's are
good. What
Adam Curry: was interesting was interesting last night, is that
people will be sharing screenshots of fountain and
fountain had only had a web experience, and it was audio.
But people were sharing that screen because it showed you the
booster grams coming in, and it showed you the total. You see,
there's something there that is different from comments. It's
different from chat. It's a third, a third thing, it's
something different. And it's unique. It's unique to our apps.
And I I'm gonna have to propose this tag I don't know if when I
figured out how to write a proposal
Dave Jones: well you know what's interesting with this so I'm I'm
part of the reason I livestream best started live streaming
video during our show just kind of as a learning experience and
also really primarily to help Alex test No no,
Adam Curry: I thought it was to pick up chicks not working
everybody There's Dave Jones on the live streams look at him
ladies. Is he hot? Or what? He's smoking at board room after?
Dave Jones: Yeah, and so like to help Alex with test no agenda
tube and have that be a sandbox. But then like, as I like doing
it I thought sort of started to have like more or less respect
for I can we can hear that. And I'm
Adam Curry: sorry yeah, I'm sorry. I was killing I was
trying to open the the booster grams and curio caster was still
running. Sorry.
Dave Jones: So like I started with a started to understand
sort of the complexities around around all this and have a
little bit more respect for how much of a challenge it is, you
know, when so and I'm on no agenda tube right now is in
their chat room. I have that pulled up in a separate window
on the screen. And I'm seeing it is just like IRC. It's the the X
there's an XMPP booth spot in the chat room on the agenda
tube. Yep. And when somebody booths, it shows up, it's right.
It's It is super chat. It is literally doing the thing that
that we want
Adam Curry: now it's not connected to the IRC or is that
also connected to it? Because you connect that with XMPP,
can't you?
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think so. But that's like, it's it's being
fed, these things are being federated into through Britt,
you know, they're being bridged, right. So we, you know, the
things that we this experience, okay, so, this is something I
was thinking about today too. The other the other thing that I
took away from from this whole week was if it was the right,
let me say it this way, it was the right decision to slow down
the namespace. Amen. It really was because we we ran fast for
like two solid years without any lead up. And then for the last
six months or so, or more, really slowed things down and I
think that was that was fruitful because they let everybody just
concentrate on the thing that they needed to concentrate on
catching up and refining like look at what fountain did with
their 1.0 release. Yeah, like what podcast Giroux is done with
their value time with their value support. Look at what pod
versus done by getting out yeah There's, there's so much that
they have now begun to refine, because we slowed down the
frantic pace, though think that these all these pieces are
there. Now, it's just a matter of the giving the apps time to
put these things put the pieces into play. They can, you know,
because that, that takes that takes time. What exactly I
thought the Oscar interview on the latest pot news weekly
review was really good because he said, even he was like we
were frantically adding features. And the interface the
UI just got it became a mess. So we had to, we had to, we had to
go into basically rewrite the entire UI to make all of this
make sense. Because if you're just adding it's like when you
know, a house that you just add on to overtime, it looks like a
big, you know, freaky weird thing. You have to you have to
renovate and then just kind of start from a fresh template. I
think I think that's really important. And what I mean, we
will, I think 2024, we need to head into Phase seven and look
at some of these things. But I see the face seven tags, like
the chat tag. That's real. I think some of these things we're
going to be doing next year, are going to be things that are
complementary to what's already there. I don't think it's going
to be any more of this frantic pace stuff. I think we can I
think we're gonna have time to work these things out in a way
where people where the app developers can catch their
breath. But like, like say, I'm looking at no agenda today. I'm
looking at our see both on the same screen. And they're
literally doing the thing we want. Chiron
Adam Curry: so it's their current weight weigh in here,
Roman.
Kyrin Down: Yeah. I mean, like, with the social media stuff, I
was just gonna say like, I can't add much, because I had none
from 2013 to 2019. And then the way I use it is just is just, I
use it to, like, advertise post. I'm not I'm not big into to that
whole world. But yeah, yeah, I think the live chat and the
focusing on that, at least for me, personally as a podcaster
has been really fun. And I'm really enjoying doing that. And
it's kind of completely changed how I run my podcast now instead
of recording them seven days in advance and, and really trying
to clean them up and put them out. Not that I was doing too
much editing anyway. But that was that was just due to video,
and I've changed my tune on video. So
Dave Jones: dig in on that, Karen, because you you've done
video for a long time. So you've, you've been in this,
you've been in the video world how how do you? Like what if
you're going to take I think let me ask this questions for figure
out how to ask this. Your video what you expect from video is
probably like it is with all of us. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
it's probably in your head, you just see the YouTube experience.
Do you if you were to sort of translate that into what you
would expect the experience to be as a podcaster? Or in an app?
What would would it be? What would you see?
Kyrin Down: I think you just have to realize that different
things like if you if you want to be a YouTuber, you sure go
for it and go ahead. But it's really hard to be a good
youtuber and a good podcaster at the same time. I'm not even sure
you can is some people can kind of get away with it, kind of the
the LEX Friedman's to the Joe Rogan's, but it's you know,
that's, that's really, really hard to do. And it's almost I
think, for most people, like you have to kind of pick one of
them, to be honest. And so then if you're doing that, I'm not
sure you'd actually want a lot of the YouTube replication in
podcasting apps because it is different. So so just for
example, like doing a live episode with the with the
YouTube, you have to focus on a lot more things like the video
can get out of sync with the audio. There's, there's it's got
its own separate chat system if you're trying to do it on
YouTube or Twitch or anything like that. And this is where
it's just like I would I would kind of say you have so many
aspects of video that are great, but they're probably good at
just being video. And so when it comes to replicating things of
the live chat, for example in a podcasting app, I just don't
know if you need as much as as is there I think kind of like
you're saying an IRC chat is pretty good and and some booster
grams. That's something that we do really well obviously and
that YouTube doesn't have as much you know, they've got the
super chats, I guess. But I don't really see that used as as
much as, as the podcasting apps Do.
Dave Jones: Do. Do I want to hear I do want to hear Tom
brought clips of a new media
Adam Curry: show. I don't know if you heard it. You know, I was
in the car. Driving back. This was this. Can I just let me just
wrap this up for one second. I have one more thing to say. Oh,
yeah, sure. I have such deep appreciation for Julie Costello.
Jim Costello. Of course. Ainsley just loud, his team who I don't
know. Thank you. Thank you for trusting us. Thank you for the
hours of phone calls with everybody. That's Julie, mainly,
thank you for the 10,000 word emails. Thank you for trusting
one of the most precious things you have your daughter to this
group of nut jobs. That could have gone horribly wrong in so
many ways. Also, thank you to the venue. Thank you to open
mic, of Avenue one. Thank you to the nostre people who we're all
a part of this, it for me personally, this was a huge,
huge thing that we are. This was like Moon guy launch. The I want
my V for V is what I was all I could think of the whole time.
It's like I've seen this revolution happened. I've been a
part of this than the 80s and now something new is happening.
And I am what I'm for one. I'm with you, Dave. I'm like, the
kids are off to college. This is great. We're here. You know,
when you're out of money and you know you're hungry, we're gonna
send you a care package. We're gonna send you some clothes for
the winter rent. Okay, money you know, we're here we're here for
you. But I think I think everyone's graduated and
congratulations to everybody. And believe me when I say that
the this the value block and the splits is that is what keeps us
all together. That is what has made this successful. Because
even if it's just 1% When I when I saw that, that value block
that that Julie was very specific, she wanted to make
sure everybody was in there. And and how Dolby Das was popping,
boom, switching the value block live, my head was exploding. How
beautiful that wasn't that it worked everywhere perfectly. No,
not yet. But we have created something really, it look, MTV
sucked in the early days was all kinds of things wrong and all
kinds of, you know, black black screens and stuff not starting
and I could go into how that why that all happened. It was all
basically, you know, Betamax tapes, and the whole thing was
was chewing gum and the gaffer tape and we're kind of in that
same place. But man, do we have a future and I'm so
appreciative. Everybody who worked on this, and and it was
just I was just jumping for joy. I mean, there were tears coming
down my face. When I when Ainsley is reading off booster
grams, I couldn't believe and the video working everywhere. I
mean, who needs What's this bowl crap about video. It works. I
don't know how that happened. But all of a sudden video works
in my apps. Like, okay, it just is there. It was beautiful.
Dave Jones: It didn't just work. It was like, crisp, beautiful.
Like yes, spotless.
Adam Curry: Yes. And the audio Thank you. The audio was killer.
You know, just everything was stellar. I can't wait for what
everyone's going to do next. And and really the whole, the whole
music side of this you guys I love you. I love you so much for
for taking this taking this leap of huge faith. And I'm glad that
it worked. You know, we all know that. It's Dred Scott,
basically, who funded the whole thing. We know how it works. We
know you know he was boosting everyone. One
Dave Jones: one 100 100k says 1000s 100,000 SATs after another
just boom, boom,
Adam Curry: boom, boom, boom. And you know, and don't discount
those streaming stats. You know, there's more people like Dave
Jones sitting in the theater streaming 1000 SATs a minute,
you know, this, it's not just about the boost anyway, is
Kyrin Down: the biggest difference. You think the value
for value component is what really differentiates it from a
YouTube experience or a twitch experience or hopefully even
just a podcasting?
Adam Curry: Well, totally because, well, there's it
differentiates it from Nasir differentiates from everything.
The whole idea that everybody who's participating gets a piece
of value sent back directly from the people who are enjoying the
content or the value they're receiving. That's it. That's why
we're still together
Dave Jones: that's why he misses everybody misses not everybody.
Many people miss a component of value for value because it's
it's it multiple things all at once and ever is a lot of people
miss one piece or the other
Adam Curry: even Burberry says the lighting designer even got a
split.
Dave Jones: I see that's the thing is like you that. And
that's the part that I won't say the quote noster people because
I don't think that's fair. But that's that's on the nostril
side of things they haven't they haven't caught the importance of
that yet, which is the full stack, everybody gets a cut.
Yeah, if you can't do it that way, it doesn't work. It doesn't
because people give up. If you can't, the value flow doesn't
always have to be monetary. But that's one clear expression that
you can do with because if people just if people are
participating, this happens, this happens with everything.
People come and go in a project. In open source, you'll have one
person that just works their their butt off for months. They
don't get anything for it other than the enjoyment of doing it.
When the enjoyment fades, they go they fade, they disappear.
And then we
Unknown: get them forgotten.
Dave Jones: And they're gonna and then you Yeah, and then you
get next cloud or whatever. The but but when you can have the
split where everybody can share in the in in the revenue. It
changes the game. Now it's no now it's no longer people just
doing it simply out of the out of the kindness of their
Adam Curry: heart. Oh, and one other thing. I loved how the
homegrown hits gals. They come to the live feed during their
live show. Oh, that's cool. And yeah, but also the promotion.
That and this is this is where a pro like Julie Costello comes
in. I heard Bo Cody Christopher with music sidestream podcast.
He did a quick interview with Ainsley. There was a shoot of
Sam Sethi had Ainsley and just loud on pod news weekly review.
I mean, it was it was like a real, that's an industry. Right?
That's an industry. That's how an industry works. That's the
podcast industrial complex. That's how an industry works
together to promote things to work together. And you know,
when when Ainsley is on the sidestream music podcast with
Cody, he streaming value, he gets value, she gets value, it's
just value flying everywhere. I get up sometimes in the middle
of the night. I'll be honest about if I wake up, maybe
sometimes I'll wake up at 3am I'm old now. So that happens
like
Dave Jones: oh, yeah, you gotta pee. Yeah.
Adam Curry: And, and I will open up my zap, I think it's zap,
well, that changed the name of it, they change it to bit
banana, whatever. And I and I use that one because I can bring
up the podcast index node. And I will just watch and see one
Satoshi at a time streaming in. And it makes me incredibly happy
now.
Dave Jones: It's like watching a fish. I can just your I can
imagine you at three o'clock in the morning, staring a helipad.
Adam Curry: It was it was it's like basically helipad. But you
know, but I see the whole index. And I don't see, I don't see
booster grams or anything. It's just I see the, I just see one
set, you know, 20 SATs, because we're just getting a percentage
of stuff. And some of its for our for this podcast. So maybe a
higher amount. But I and you know, every minute there's
1215 20 Different payments per minute. And I just know that at
that moment. There's people 20 people around the world sending
value to podcasters musicians, apps, services, da
Kyrin Down: didn't give you my slight an early prediction,
which was for the pod Newsweekly. And my prediction
for 2024 was it's just going to be all about collaboration you
because you get so much access to not not need to trust
somebody for this payment is gonna go here and then it will
get there eventually and and that all that sort of just, I
don't know, what was call it wasting of time or just the non
directness of it. And so even when like looking, if you're on
like Tiktok or something and someone's got music, and they're
dancing, and that that becomes really popular, like the
musician gets nothing of that. So it's just yeah, with with
everything being connected like that and And then being able to
verify it and see it. That's at that's, that's a real game this
Adam Curry: morning, as I woke up at six, and I'm still jacked,
and and Tina asked some really good question. She says, So how
does it really work? The music business? How does it get played
when a song is on the radio? And, you know, just running
through all that, and you know, and basically the end of the
day, after 48 months, you know, a penny drops into your into
your piggy bank there. And that's it. And she has and she's
went holy crap. And I wish I'd recorded it because I was really
lucid, lucid. And I said, Holy crap, no wonder everyone's so
excited to Yes, exactly. And that's the magic that is that is
created here. And it's like even even advertising. And this will
pivot into I think, what is your clips, Dave? So advertising. And
a, an advertiser A brand wants to advertise their product or
service, they call their advertising agency, they say we
want to do this. Now, you know, what includes some podcasts,
okay? Then the agency has their media plan, or the media planner
is going to look around is going to figure out what the best
thing is. And then the media planners, because Okay, when
they come up with a plan, we have some more meetings, the
advertiser signs off on it, they sign off on a budget, then the
media buyer goes out. And then the podcast whether the it let's
just say its host reads a mix of some host reads and some
dynamically inserted ads, of course, creative has to be made.
All of that has to be approved and go through that process are
mistakenly, oh, let's just repurpose the radio ads doesn't
matter. Then all of the podcast networks or the podcast shows,
they have to sign affidavits and say, okay, these these ads were
delivered. This was delivered this many times. You know, and
this is through the metrics, and here's the proof, it's ay ay b,
and then that goes back to the agency. And the agency tallies
that all up. It goes into their accounting. And then the
accounting sends a bill to the client net 90. So 90 days later,
they're going to pay their agency, the agency takes a fee.
There's all these than the network takes a fee. And then
finally, somewhere down the line. 456 months later, the
podcaster gets a couple of dimes. Yeah, that's literally
the process. And then I only have one clip that I'll play
here. And I believe that we are going to see agencies on behalf
of their clients going to podcast networks, podcast shows,
and they're going to say they want money back or they want
make goods because Rob Walsh of Lipson said the quiet part out
loud. Literally said this,
Unknown: if shows have over 300 episodes, they could and should
expect to see their total weekly downloads at the end of November
be greater than a 25% drop below where their weekly numbers were
in early September. Here's the thing, and I want people to
remember this. Your audience size did not change those
numbers. That was extra downloads that were happening to
your back catalogue weren't being listened to. It's just
right sizing your downloads your monthly and weekly downloads to
what's more realistic, and what's really happening. Well,
thanks
Adam Curry: so you overcharged me by 25% for the same amount of
people. He literally just said
Dave Jones: that is called right
Adam Curry: sizing. Oh, right sizing. Okay, there you go.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's not you didn't get ripped off. You got
you got wrong size. So that you need to right size that
Adam Curry: I mean, that's her rific Well, this
Dave Jones: is the same thing that causes in this is the joy
that I have right now is to share with you that Todd, Todd's
F bomb.
Adam Curry: That's the second clip. Okay. Okay,
Dave Jones: well, well, let's we can we can tease the F bomb
because the Kratt the I'm proud to say that in that we I
predicted on the last show that we would that we would wear Todd
down. And in that it he would he would indeed adopt the Austrian
enclosure because we
Adam Curry: didn't take more than 20 hours.
Dave Jones: When Todd discuss discussing things with Todd is
more is more of a negotiation than anything else we eat when
he says no, that doesn't really mean no. it mean it means I'm
just not ready yet. Like you can use it means you need to change
tactics. And he's and I'm happy to report that the cracks are
forming.
Todd Cochran: While there is there is a little bit of
initiative over at podcasting. 2.0 No, it's early on what
they're gonna do. And so the
Unknown: large thing is, yeah, it was thought of you.
Todd Cochran: But what you know the idea that spin surface that
seems to be pretty good is Yeah, sure rock, blueberry supports
video podcasting, you want one traditionally you can have one.
Okay, if you want one. Number two, if you decide to put your
video over at wherever it may be Twitch, Twitter, Spotify,
wherever now, YouTube, wherever you're going to close, you can
put in the list, okay, whatever. So if you want to put your video
over there, you know you can. But what we're going to do is do
the alternate enclosure tag, which I vowed not to support
from the main purpose of it, but I can see a use case going
forward where we just link to the YouTube video. In the often
enclosure, we just basically provide a link to the episode
link. So then when they're in the podcast app, they can still
get their audio version. Or if they want the video version that
served up from YouTube, they can do that as an embed right in the
app. And it still keeps it in a podcast app.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so welcome to the party. We love Utah. And
this we will see you with full video Ultraman enclosure support
in the near future. Good.
Adam Curry: I was gonna say I love the show so much. I was on
my way back from Austin. I get in the car to drive back. I see
the notification. It's only two minutes old. I'm like, Oh, this
is great. So I pop it on the on the on the car Bluetooth, and
I'm driving and I am just booster grabbing like nuts. I'm
like, I'm disowning Rob. Like, they're like, Hey, who's gonna
do chapters and said it's very easy to do chapters for your
show is just chapter one through 10 Rob shields for YouTube. You
know,
Dave Jones: this was the greatest episode of new media
show I've ever heard. It was so funny. Without a doubt. I mean,
and so I mean, in that vein, I mean, we please F bomb it.
Todd Cochran: We need to we need to put some some brakes on why
there's less than one half of 1%
Unknown: We'll talk why. Why do we need to put brakes,
Todd Cochran: we quit. We need to, we need to quit. We need to
quit pumping it up. There's very few people on podcasting site
that has actually switched to video. It's not that big a
numbers. It's not. It's not that many as compared to audio folks.
We don't have to tell him to stop. But we need to quit hyping
it as this new fucking frontier and everyone is gotta be on it's
not true. I would say less than 5% less than maybe less than 3%
of podcasters currently are doing any video.
Dave Jones: So this is this is. This was to me the best part is
this discussion between and I've tried to make this. I've tried
to make this point before it recently is that this whole?
Like, it's become obvious to me that this schism between AD AD
research and digital advertising research in the podcast
industry. And in the hosting company slash infrastructure. Is
this is a this is destined for for a reckoning here. Yeah,
because they're the digital advertising industry is leading
Korea's leading podcasters down one path in the hosting
companies just like Todd is talking about here is the
hosting company see it for what it is, which is BS. But the
digital advertising companies they're just dying to get
everybody focused on video and YouTube. He talks about that in
clip three about the tension between those two. What
Unknown: I'm saying is what we need to recognize is that this
is a unified audience that is I am audio and video had no
Todd Cochran: doubt that we meet we need to set expectations
realistically for the average podcaster on what's going to
happen when they go invest and do a whole bunch of work on
video. Very
Unknown: few are pastor pastor figure that out for them so that
Todd Cochran: we need to okay, if I'm sitting here and saying
video, podcasting is the next biggest thing and this is where
you need to invest your money. I'm doing a disservice to
podcaster I have to send the expectation level of what's
going to happen when you do video. If you You're gonna do
Unknown: have to set a low expectation for what somebody
might expect, because
Todd Cochran: that's what's gonna happen to 99% of people.
Adam Curry: I appreciate what Todd is doing here, because this
is exactly what happened in 2008. My balls were not as big
as his. It was, it was the venture capitalists, we had pod
show. And we went so because they were like, look at YouTube,
YouTube just launched that's a $2 billion, you know, blah,
blah, blah. Look at juice remember juiced? And you know, J
O S T?
Dave Jones: O, what a terrible name.
Adam Curry: Oh, no, you gotta be more like, juiced? Oh, yeah,
this was, this was like some video thing. The I mean, I don't
think anyone even remembers it. But it was hot for like five
days. And we not only went all video, we changed the name to me
VO We changed it away from pod from pod show, we did all of
that, and failed spectacularly, because it was the wrong thing
to do. And if we kept that company going for 10 years, 10
years, $65 million, it'd be we met revenue. But you know, the
burn was just eventually the burned, it just overtook the
revenue. Because it was just it wasn't there. And the costs were
too high of a network, you can't monetize the network for a whole
bunch of reasons. And if we had only done just audio, then had
them had had gone to a different monetization model. If we had
figured out value for value earlier, we might have made it.
But now,
Dave Jones: now, the whole time during this discussion, Rob,
Rob's whole point was based on on this, this research survey,
done by sounds profitable. And he just kept saying the
research, the research the research, and like an antenna,
the top end clip for Todd tall is he's trying to say look, I
don't care what your research says. I know what the reality of
this is in the research is wrong. And so he keeps He keeps
talking trying to convince him and Rob can't see outside this
research thing, which is the thing that is the problem. All
Todd Cochran: I'm saying is that if we keep hyping video.
Alright, let's start hyping video every day you have to do
video. Then someone about a year from now is gonna say, Todd Rob,
why did you tell me to do video? I've had no success on video.
But I've had great success with my audio program.
Unknown: I didn't tell anybody to do video. Well,
Todd Cochran: it sounds like you are. Well, this
Unknown: research is showing that for
Todd Cochran: a segment of very big shows. Okay,
Unknown: but if you look at these overall numbers that that
Tom shape that
Todd Cochran: listening to very big shows what where is the
distribution amongst smaller shows on YouTube? It's not
there. Dave
Adam Curry: Jones, I love you for so many reasons. I'm going
to tell you why I love first of all, I love you to rob. And
don't worry, Todd and Rob will have this conversation next week
and the week after and the week after and the week after. That
will keep on going and it's
Dave Jones: this this one catch the reruns.
Adam Curry: And just when I think I'm mad, and I can't
listen to it anymore, it gets entertaining. I was planning for
my Sunday no agenda show to clip for similar reasons. But you're
tying it together beautifully here on the media, which now I
understand what what you because it's my hatless. You know where
I'm going. Oh, of course. I know where you're going. You're going
to the research.
Dave Jones: Yep, yep. Yep. And the so the on the media which
you this is a thing that you created within me. See, yes, the
hate listen. No, Karen, you don't have the joy in Australia
of listening to on the media.
Kyrin Down: No, well, I don't personally have to. Do
Adam Curry: you have a hate Listen, though? Ah, no.
Kyrin Down: There's nothing that I particularly do know. There's
there's tons of things where I I'll go to it intentionally
because I think it's dumb and want to see like if there's a
reason missing now. That's
Adam Curry: a hatless. I always wish that I could send boosts to
these shows.
Dave Jones: Oh, I do too. I
Adam Curry: would understand that I would be boosted now. I'd
be boosting so big to these people. Like this is stupid.
Here's 100,000 SATs I wish I could do that. What
Kyrin Down: my hate listen then would be this scammy list crypto
crap that I can find to see if there's anything like any reason
I should be focusing on anything really than Bitcoin. That's not
Dave Jones: a current if you don't have a hatless and I
highly suggest you go and get it's good for you. It's good for
fantastic. It's wonderful on the media is now I mean like it hits
my my podcast app and it's Immediate right away. Immediate.
And so like the the so on the media this week at the beginning
of it is like is the all A's just quoting all of these these
these, these surveys that our saying that Trump is beating
Biden in like everything? I mean, like swing states, Israel,
conflict, economy, mortar,
Adam Curry: anything anything Yeah, boy
Dave Jones: y'all are blue, whatever. It's just whether
cilantro tastes good.
Adam Curry: Everything kale is no good. Yeah. So
Dave Jones: then so they bring on they're like, Okay, well
let's dig into this let's find out about surveys. Let's let's
do this research this a little bit. And the Whoa, this they get
this lady from I think she's from the New York Times because
they did a joint poll with Siena College. And they they started
going over how they do these, these surveys. And this, this
ties in with what Rob is basing his thing on, which is surveys.
And they start off by talking about how the wording in surveys
is crucial. So
Todd Cochran: let's talk about the way a question is framed
because it can mean anything, and it can mean everything.
We're there debates about the wording of any questions in
these particular polls,
Unknown: in any poll, but in particular, this poll, we wanted
to be very careful and conscientious and how we worded
the questions because, you know, we know that the conflict
between Israel and Gaza right now is very complicated. And
even that choice of words I had now is really complicated,
right? We had to really think carefully about when we're
saying Gaza, when we're saying Palestinians, when we're saying
Israel, when we're saying the Israeli government, each of
those decisions was very, very careful. And with any poll, we
spend a lot of time thinking about question wording with sort
of two main goals. I
Adam Curry: was literally cooking burgers outside when I
was I hate listening to this. I'm like, Oh, this is so good.
This is so good.
Dave Jones: So what do you think the two main goals are?
Adam Curry: Well as chyron go higher, and where did I already
heard it? Oh,
Dave Jones: you already heard it? What are the two when it
comes to wording of survey questions. Karen, what are the
two main goals you can think of?
Kyrin Down: Jays that probably want some sort of participation?
Like I imagine if you're listening to a poll and you and
then you're ambivalent, then it's then it's not good. They
want to definite yes, or a definite no. So participation,
and then I mean, like they'd have their own bias, right. So
they'll probably be leaning at one way or another. It's very
hard to be truly neutral. So yeah, turning it to their what
they kind of want to hear. Okay,
Dave Jones: all right, let's, let's see what she has to say.
Unknown: The first is that a question feels fair to anybody
who's being asked it. We want to represent every single voter in
America, no matter their opinion, no matter where they
sit on the political spectrum. And so that means that every
voter in America should be able to look at these questions and
say, I see myself in those answer choices. There is an
answer choice there, that represents how I feel. So that
requires a lot of debate on the second thing that we spend a lot
of time doing is trying to ensure that the questions are
interpreted the same by everybody who's answering them.
Oftentimes with polls, we can get something what's called
measurement error, where we think we're measuring something
but different respondents interpret it different ways. And
so we again, spend a lot of time being very careful and very
precise. Can you
Adam Curry: imagine that meeting? Imagine working there
and sitting in that meeting? I
Dave Jones: love the I love these words. We it's like they
like they say, you know, we call that fill in the blank. And it's
always something you expect from instructing? Yeah, you're
expecting it to be some really fancy term, but it's the what do
they call it measurement error? Yeah, it's like, it's this thing
we call being wrong wrong. Just wrong, is not a fancy term. It's
just what it is. But so they go into this discussion about the
example of how it's super critical that you have, so that
you define the term ceasefire, right, if you're asking about
Libya, for Israeli Gaza conflict, and you define Gaza
correctly, and you and they give you an example of like, five
possible work, questions you should ask in order to encompass
all of the different points of view, and all of the political
spectrums and all of the nationality and all of the
different backgrounds so that nobody else and genders,
genders, genders, yes, everything you have to encompass
everything. So that takes at least like five or six different
questions, but they does not actually what they did they use
the thing called forced choice in clip three. So for
Unknown: me, as an analyst of polls, I wouldn't know how to
interpret that data because everybody's bringing their own
perspective to it. So instead, we had a forced choice option,
either Israel should stop its campaign in order to protect
against civilian casualties, even if not all the hostages are
released, or Israel should continue its military campaign
until all the hostages are released, even if it means
civilian casualties in Gaza might continue. Now, a lot of
people might disagree with those answer choices. And I think it's
very reasonable to disagree with those as the only two answer
choices. But in doing that, we actually saw that the public is
fairly split on that question, which I think is interesting. I
think a good survey question does split the public more
evenly?
Adam Curry: answered? I love this. It's like, do these guys
killed those guys baby worse than those guys kill those guys
babies worse? Give me your answer.
Dave Jones: Everything that they said before about the
carefulness of questions and the wording, the criticality, and
the pause and the 15 possible different answers you could do?
Forget all that. Forget all that. We're just gonna give them
two. We're gonna give you two things to choose from, but which
of which nobody probably agreed. And you know, and you know, why?
Why did they do that? Click for?
Todd Cochran: Did you consider having more than two choices? We
Unknown: did, we debated that pretty heavily. And there were
times where we got close to having that as options. In the
end, it makes it a lot more difficult to analyze the data,
the more options that you provide. Oh,
Dave Jones: that's because it's hard. That's why they didn't do
it. Because it's hard. And it makes it really difficult. Yeah.
So when you when you when you're talking about surveys, in
research and research from these from these agencies, you're
getting, you're getting nothing from them, you're getting
absolutely zero
Adam Curry: worse, worse, you're getting what they want the
answer to be? Yes. forced
Dave Jones: choice. Now we know the term forced choice. We did a
forced choice question.
Kyrin Down: Have you seen that recent meme of a it was a guy
wearing like an hour long earphone or air pod or something
like that? And he's been trying to some months? I think it's on
a college university campus or something like that. And a guy's
trying to force him to answer one of the questions and he's
just refusing like blatantly to, to answer it. And then it was
there was something related to
Adam Curry: that was Palestine. It was real. I
Kyrin Down: think it was. Yeah, yeah. And it's, that's exactly
that. No,
Adam Curry: I can't answer. I can't speak about Palestine. I
can't speak about Hamas. No, I can't talk about that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, like that. So your quit your, whenever it
comes to research, you're getting the forced choice of,
because she said, it's just like bedding, you know, the bed. They
always say that the bedding lines are created in order to
get even money on both sides of the bed. Yeah. Like, and so it's
just it's the same thing with this. She said, she said we did
a forced choice question so that we could get an even split. This
is all useless people come on, like and what Todd is cutting
through all of that Gordian knot, and saying, I don't care
what the research says, I know what reality is. And reality is
if a bunch of podcasters go off and try to do video, they're
going to fail, and they're going to be pissed. Yeah.
Kyrin Down: I can attest to some of the video stuff, which was
when the I think like, one of the reasons people are like,
what what are the reasons that podcasters are being suggested
to go to video? And it's, it's typically because you feel like
you're talking into the void, you're not getting any like
reaction, you don't you don't know what's happening, you see
download numbers, and then they reduced by 25%. And then you
realize, oh, wait, people weren't even, like they weren't
real anyway. And so video is, I think, being kind of touted as
that because you can see, you have to stop playing the game of
algorithms, of course, but and virality but you can look into
it, in essence, and this is where I was like, you know, I
did video of yours and I was half kind of like half half
doing audio half half video in terms of where my focus was. And
when you do it like that, you're not going to succeed because you
need to be a YouTuber. So you need to think about your
thumbnails more how you're going to title things. The first 30
seconds needs to be super snappy, so you get retention and
and all of these sorts of things. And so then that
ultimately gets through like well, if you if you go in there
to try and get that has Some sort of audience petition
participation, what's linked to that, you know, then then that's
probably related to the whole advertising and, and how you
make money from that as well. And that's just why I felt like
visa vie captured me, which was just it just cuts through all
that bullshit. And solves those super easy, but not super the
problems that I was having was like, What how do I know that
anyone's even listening? And, you know, getting a boost in and
a message just just cut through all of that.
Dave Jones: That's what was interesting because yeah,
Adam Curry: what other things have you learned? Because you
have mere mortals Of course. And the value for value is have you
done two seasons the value for value podcast?
Kyrin Down: Three now? It's
Adam Curry: fine. So what have you What have you learned? I
mean, you you have been in the midst of it you've talked to
value for value people non value for value people, you know, you
doing views on video? Do you have just pure audio? I mean,
tell me what what you really learned when what will you be
focusing on for 2024?
Kyrin Down: It's great. You asked that because the the
latest episode was was pretty much just covering all that. And
so I can give you the highlights. There's, I still
notice that with book reviews, for example, they tend to that
there's definitely an audience more on YouTube for that I think
then interested then slowly the audio so for that one, I'm kind
of optimizing for the video. And going. Still, it's still because
I don't like the virality chasing spending all my time on
thumbnail sort of thing. Like it's I don't know, I could still
be swayed from that. But I am doing a lot more live, which
makes things a lot easier. Why
Adam Curry: do you think that books book reviews work better?
Or in video? Or specifically YouTube?
Kyrin Down: I have no idea. Yeah, this is the this is just
like the weird things where it's just perhaps because maybe a bit
more timeless in terms of being people would would willing to
look up like a stoic book written from the early BCS? And
maybe it's a bit more. Yeah. Evergreen in that how
Adam Curry: are you measuring this? Are you measuring it by
views versus views,
Kyrin Down: but also just like even the booster grabs for
example, they don't really come into the the book reviews. And
I've kind of talked about that as much as I have on across my
other shows. So that's one thing leaning into the audience and
where they're actually already at. So if you heard on the pod
news, weekly review this last one, they got a couple more
booster grams in from from people that have never heard of
before, which was ironic considering the week before they
were saying how they it's all just the same, the same people
showing up and one of those guys was was I boosted him just
before it was the late bloomer actor. And he was saying, you
know, I'm doing this I'm doing VP on my show, but no one's
boosting in or, or commenting or anything like that. And so I
went over to it, and I just said, like, Hey, by the way, you
probably need to go where the people already know about this
stuff is so yes, it helps if you have a Bitcoin show because and
you see that in the fountain charts, for example. Because
they kind of already know it and that that experience is big
bitcoins hard to get it takes a long time to kind of be
convinced by it or use it but as these things get easier, I
definitely see leaning more into using true fans using fountain
using the clipping on pod verse of the interactive features that
all these things have. Going going to where people are
already starting to use stuff you know, it's it's pretty,
pretty obvious but it also bears repeating. So going on to the
podcast index website, and and to the mastodon as well and
interacting there. So those are the kind of big ones and yeah,
just with video, it's very much it's, I just want to reiterate
just how completely different it is from podcasting. And it's,
it's worth not trying to even with just just putting a pretty
big distinction between the two. If you think you can just start
a video podcast and your your workflow, the end product is
going to be similar to the audio it's it's not it's going to be
it's going to be completely different. And so you just have
to take the consequences of that. So if you want to be a
YouTuber, you know, go for it. Go ahead, but that's that's
pretty hard game some and takes a lot of time.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that that's the, the video thing. But I
think that it took me a little bit to sort of get used to, to
get used to it now. Now I don't like, I have a workflow and it
just doesn't, it doesn't really bother me anymore because I
know, I know that I don't have to think about it 99% of the
time, until the only time I ever even think about the fact that
I'm doing video on this stream for for no agenda tube is when
it when it gets towards the end, I have to do the donations and I
used to have to go and make sure I had my screens email up and
that kind of
Adam Curry: thing. You don't want to show all the spreadsheet
in the email. Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah, there's the email, you know, like everybody
has a nice to see my email and stuff. So but but like, now with
the stream deck, it's even easier because there's a button
and my admin screen. So it's like, I don't even really, I
don't even think about that the fact that there's video until
like an hour and a half into the show. So it's fine but that but
that learning, but at the beginning that's just all you're
thinking about your split brain.
Kyrin Down: Yeah, but you're like you're not trying to grow
your video are you? Yeah, like yeah, you're not No, no, no,
it's you get and
Dave Jones: in some weeks I don't even do it. I mean, I'm
tired or something. Yeah.
Kyrin Down: And then also your monetization even though I hate
that word is not linked to how many views you get on YouTube
whereas then that's what a lot of people are like, Oh, have I
got my 4000 hours for the year have I got my 1000 subscribers?
Car video, the ad payouts better you know, all that sort of
thing.
Adam Curry: You're my my brother in law in Italy. My sister has
lived there now for 28 years, I think. And he is a quite well
known comedian. He's He's my age, like couple years younger
and he was very famous for in Italy you work for either check
a gory or used to be Berlusconi, of course, it's still the
Berlusconi organization even though he's dead in check, a
glorious kind of they're both they're both gangsters. You
worked for this gangs, he worked for that gangster. And so he
worked for the Czech gory gangster and he did a movie,
Pinocchio, but it was kind of like a, an r slash almost X
rated version, you can imagine when the nose grows, and it was,
it was kind of like, a cult hit. Like every young guy in Italy,
like, oh, yeah, I remember that one, you know, kind of like
faces
Dave Jones: of death, the most Italian thing ever.
Adam Curry: But he's done. You know, he's on many, many small
features and things and he hit all of a sudden, he hit really
big on YouTube. And he would just do like, like a joke a day
or something. And it just and you know, he got the whole, you
know, the plaque, the little the YouTube award thing and
everything. And, and now, you know, he of course, he got busy.
So he had no gigs and he's going to gigs and then his numbers
really dropped off really quickly. And Willow, my my
sister, who just got her her degree. She's a professor of
psychology, specifically online media. So she did a whole
dissertation on social media video and on Tik Tok and
YouTube, she taught me a lot about this stuff. And of course,
she had Italian numbers. And she had good in with the Italian
YouTube, which is very specific, you know, so it's kind of a
segregated market. So you can, you can strip out a lot of stuff
that isn't important because it's not an Italian. And what
she learned was a you have to feed the algo. But she also
learned that if he the title of his video, if it was something
like his joke was the broken umbrella. And he would title it
the broken umbrella, the views would go through the roof, and
she went to an analyze, and it's because people are on Google
looking for a broken umbrella. How to fix a broken umbrella.
And then they wind up at his video and that was the nut
that's the number one driver is is Google Search dries views to
video of course people then click on it. Oh, that's a funny
joke. But that's, that's really ovo
Dave Jones: place. Yes. It's a Google SEO juice. This is also
gross.
Adam Curry: Not as gross as this baby. Come on. Let's talk about
it for a moment. You want to see my Pinocchio video? Just tried
to wait.
Dave Jones: Wait. That's just that's just like so good. We
don't we don't want podcasting to be that. No,
Adam Curry: of course not. Of course they won't be it won't
be.
Dave Jones: We're smart.
Adam Curry: We're smart. We're intelligence over here. We're
intelligent,
Dave Jones: man. So I've been I'm going to have to post this
code publicly. Because I'm beating my head against the
wall. TRY TO GET HTTP soon signatures working in
activitypub
Adam Curry: is for the edifying of the index? Yes,
Dave Jones: I admit it, I am, I am almost close to defeat on
this. I cannot figure it out. I'm at the point where I've been
looking at it for too long. And I can't see my own mistakes at
this point of that I've got I'm comparing. I'm comparing my rust
code to John Spurlock's mini pub code. And I cannot see what I'm
doing different. And like his his in JavaScript mods and Russ,
I'm having to do some translation there. But it's a,
it's a fairly straightforward thing. You hash the body of the
request. And when so this, so here's where I'm at. The
database is the database is mostly there, it's functional. I
can accept follow requests. That's been fine for a long
time. But then when I tried to accept the follow request, that
involves sending an accept message back to the originating
server, in order to make that function, there has to be an
HTTP signature, which there has to be for a lot of interactions.
But this is the first interaction that's needing it.
So I'm doing that part. Now. When I send back the
acknowledgement to show that, yes, the follow is okay, you're
now following properly, the HTTP request has to be signed, which
means it just needs a signature header. The signature header can
consist of hashing the body of the request, with SHA 256, base
64, encoding it, then including it in the digest header, then
taking the digest header, and including that with some other
headers, and hashing all of that with SHA 256 And then signing it
with the private key. That's, and then inserting that as
what's as the signature header. I don't know what I'm doing
wrong, because I
Adam Curry: can't Oh, I know, I know what you're doing wrong.
All of it, what all of it. Okay, you should make love to your
wife do something else.
Unknown: Stop this is Christmas.
Dave Jones: What am I doing? I've got I'm just gonna have to
post publicly and have somebody look and say, Hey, idiot,
you're, you're missing a newline character here or something like
that. Like, I think bracket,
Adam Curry: bracket, there's got to be a bracket. It's something
Dave Jones: like it's something simple because like, it's just
not, I can't figure it out. So I'm going to do that. This
weekend, I'm going to post it. And then I'm appealing for help.
Because if I can get this, this has been owning me for a week
now to every bit every bit of every bit of coding time that I
get. I'm going back to this. So I built a whole a built a new
project with just that with with just the signing code in it. And
then I've compiled you know, so I can compile it and rapid,
rapidly just iterate on just that where I'm taking Okay,
here's a J here's a JSON body. And here's my private key. I
just want to do this. And it just gives me the weird
Adam Curry: result. Have you tried Chad GPT
Dave Jones: have not tried yet to be chatty. Why not kick on
Adam Curry: the free chat. Okay,
Dave Jones: I'm not giving them a phone number. I need a local
LLM Well,
Adam Curry: I got one I got an LLM. Can you ask that question
for me? If you if you send me the question, I can sure
Dave Jones: just take the transcript of this show.
Adam Curry: Okay, somebody says all right, minds rather slow but
yes, I will.
Dave Jones: So that if I can get past this then like, then
everything will fall into place because the the activity pub
bridge is going to is is going to be important. I had a long
conversation with my buddy Tim the other day about about this a
bit. We're talking about nostre and activity pub and all kinds
of things. And I just think that activity Pub is WordPress is is
got the new activity pub plugin. I feel like activity Pub is I'm
about to blow up. As far as adoption goes, it
Adam Curry: sure seems that way.
Dave Jones: It's coiling is about to coil load. Yeah. Yeah.
So I really think this is important for people to be able
to natively interact with podcasts, you know, stuff over
activity pub, so I'll post it, and then everybody can tell me
where I'm doing it.
Adam Curry: Shall we thank a few people. Oh, yeah, sure.
Dave Jones: Let's thanks for people.
Adam Curry: And we've got we've been getting some live booths
during this boardroom after dark. Now can code has showed up
and I you know, I have my helipad open all day long. And
he's a hayver. So he's got a lot of a lot of boosts and I'm not
quite sure exactly. Hive tube. What exactly is hive tube?
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's hive tube is the fork of a peer to
two with with all of Alex's stuff in it.
Adam Curry: And does it do is it does it work on hive, or does it
work on? Enlightened not?
Dave Jones: I don't think it's high specific. I
Adam Curry: think it's just called hive tube.
Dave Jones: thinks of it. Well, okay, I may be wrong. Well, he
Adam Curry: has a lot to say. 1000 SATs from ENCODE cast dot
garden. A podcast host powered by hype tube pushes the p2p live
streaming cross app comments and syndication hardcore. Now the
1000s that to look forward to way less ads or more boosts and
hive rewards. Okay, so that's definitely hot. There's
definitely likes and tips. Oh, that's how I get to and
podcasters then we have three five to one from Renee caneta.
Hello, Renee says woke up to walk our new puppy at 330 in the
morning he's in Holland, sleeping on the couch to keep
her company great to hear you guys live.
Dave Jones: Get a hate Listen, it's easier.
Adam Curry: It's better. It's better than that. 12345 from
hard hat Merry Christmas. Thank you hard fat. Sup Yo sup? Short
Row ducks. He gave to karma pluses to blueberry with 2222
Salty Crayon 1976. Love the hotspot. Love the hot namespace
talk in these hours get offended. I'm saying Merry
Christmas. I love what Adobe does. I love Adobe does has
accomplished in the V for V Live Concert I'm loyal to building
with those IT structure I love what we are building I'm all in
five by five Ford support your local independent party
independent artists go podcasts. And various Dred Scott like he
hasn't supported the entire industry enough. He comes in
with 60,000 SATs super boost, he says we get 11,111 from
blueberry. There's so much that's been running through my
mind over the last week. It's an experience that will close hold
closely for a long, long time. And to finish what I started on
the next before the schemes, I will be reading off every single
boost that came through. In the words of Alex Jones. I have to
do it all.
Dave Jones: Is that did Alex say that I
Adam Curry: guess? More like I have to do it. Eric peepee
33,333 No, nope. Thank you. We have Chad F with 1000 SATs pod
verse has IRC chat. But on mobile if you switch apps for
too long you get kicked out of the chat room ah yes this is
another thing that we've seen the iOS seems to be really
crappy with stuff going in the background that's for sure.
Dave Jones: really crappy dot dot dot now.
Adam Curry: Let's see herbivore band. 300 SATs Thank you
anonymous podcast guru user 2222 says go chyron as 6000 SATs when
kind of courses in our our value block today. 6000 SATs from Dred
Scott cleaning Why Boost cannons after the last two days of V For
me music boosting Oh, he just cleans his cannon and it's 6000
SATs that's how it goes. Sometimes it just squirts out.
Tone record 5150 scraping together some support SATs after
last night's Minneapolis music streams was a great night props
to the builders who made it possible. The I had to reload my
my wallet a couple times to was fun.
Dave Jones: I loaded I loaded it up with about 50 bucks on
Adam Curry: Yeah, it was fun to load load load. Let's see Dobby
lost 20,000 SATs. I won't be able to listen live will be busy
sleeping I bet. But Merry Christmas Adam Dave and Karen
Thank you brother for your Christmas. And I think yeah,
that's that's where we are with the live boosts.
Dave Jones: Okay, well, Marco Arma gave us $500 through PayPal
20 is Blaze on him. Paula,
Adam Curry: thank you Marco. We so appreciate that you support
us brother.
Dave Jones: Thank you, Monica. That's appreciate that and Merry
Christmas to you and yours. Thank you for all support every
month forever. Appreciate that. We've got Some boosts we've got.
Oh, Chris from Jupiter broadcasting Chris last. Do
fountain 68,848 booths nice
Adam Curry: thank you.
Dave Jones: He says Dave checkout bit focus, bit focus to
go with that stream deck on Linux. We use it to control OBS
soundboard, our da W and run scripts via SSH connections.
That focus is worth the 15 minutes to try with the stream
deck on Linux. Happy Holidays, guys. You sent me a screenshot
of this. Yes,
Adam Curry: if right after some helipad? Yeah, exactly. Because
I'm like, Oh, this is what instead of Dave going off to
build a Windows box and like this one nightstand,
Dave Jones: which I did build a Windows box. And then I and then
you sent me a screenshot of this that night after I had already
built it. So I said, Oh, screw it. I'll try this. As what I'm
using right now. I'm using bit focus on you. Right, it's
awesome. Cool. Cool. What? Do what,
Kyrin Down: what booths number was that? 6868 848 848 Because
they do um, zip code boosts over
Adam Curry: there. They do cool stuff like that. I like the zip
code boost. That is cool.
Dave Jones: See what zip code 68/8 Lincoln,
Kyrin Down: Nebraska. Nebraska.
Dave Jones: He's in Washington. Maybe coincidence?
Adam Curry: The stream deck should I get one just to have it
in my house? I mean, is the dog is a cool? Is it something I
just need in my life? The stream deck? Yeah. From not streaming.
Dave Jones: What I mean? It's it does so much like it's killer
because it doesn't just do it's basically an outboard macro.
Macro runner. Yeah. So you can you can make it do it. You can
make it do automation stuff. So you can have it turn on wall
outlets. You can have it send SSH commands to servers. Oh,
nice. Oh, it dude, it's badass. It is so cool. It's fairly yeah,
I've barely scratched the surface with it. But it as long
as you have the right so so the software runs as a daemon on the
computer and then you in the new habit connect to like a web
socket, or something like that. So OBS as a web socket, and then
the day the daemon connects to OBS through that and then
monitors the connection. So then you can have it connect to other
daemons that do other things so you can have at launch software
on your computer trigger sounds it could be a MIDI control it
he's like do everything Wow. Yeah, it's it was it was yeah,
it's badass. Thanks, Chris. Appreciate that. We get Sir
Brian of London 21 940 Super Israeli is 21 948 through cast
ematic he says I think I'm lucky here in Israel. I get rockets
from Hamas. Sure, but I have a bomb shelter. No ads. Meantime,
I get no ads and news Ah
Adam Curry: well, there's that there's no ads in newsagent. But
yeah, there's rockets you know, it's mine. Yeah, that's
Dave Jones: a trade off
Adam Curry: I love how there's no reporting on the rockets
because the rockets just keep coming. I
Dave Jones: mean, like every few hours Yeah, I think I hear where
they're supposed to run but straight back to the show. VPN
to Israel for that ad free experience. Merry Christmas.
Adam Curry: Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah was over now.
Dave Jones: Or as we say in the south Chaka Chaka y'all. Up in
1984 4000. SAS through family says I apologize for
apologizing. lol Merry Christmas.
Adam Curry: Merry Christmas. It's okay. Apology accepted.
Yes. Both of
Dave Jones: them. Mark Lundgren, essentially Richard 1111 through
1000. He says boot. Didn't have a boot. Oh, I did have a boot
last week.
Adam Curry: I went silent. Where's my booze? Is it? Oh,
somewhere.
Dave Jones: There's I got a slew of ISOs. I
Adam Curry: know I already have. I want to know. Thank you. I
have one queued up. I haven't even heard it, but I think it's
good.
Dave Jones: Okay, Mary Oscar, also known as Oscar marrieds.
10,000 SATs do fountain Thank you, Mary Oscar. He says
resolving the case. And address is really not that big of a
lift. In my opinion. Apps can cache the results just like they
already cache lots of other information about the podcast
episode feed. But another note fountain point 1.0 live next
week. Yeah, it's
Adam Curry: killer. All the new versions of the apps are killer.
They're just all great. Like you said earlier like we've we've
grown up our children have grown up. Oh, yes, yes. Blonde
Dave Jones: Jr. They they've all crossed the threshold. into
being very stable, reliable, fast apps fast.
Adam Curry: Yeah, fast and just easy to navigate. Things are
working. It's beautiful. It's beautiful.
Kyrin Down: I wish I'd taken more screenshots of the of the
apps just to be able to look back and you know, two years ago
what it looked like, just like when sometimes on Macedon, I'll
go back and see, you know, Adam, you talked about having 58,000
SATs throwing flowing through the podcast index per day.
Adam Curry: Oh, that's great. Yeah. 50,000 a day ladies and
gentlemen, can you believe how long ago was that three years
ago? to
Kyrin Down: two years?
Adam Curry: That's fantastic.
Dave Jones: Let's see we've got over the last seven days I'm
looking at my dentist
Adam Curry: sent me before and after my teeth that was scary.
Hey, oh yeah,
Dave Jones: you probably want to just burn now. I
Adam Curry: totally I'm not posting it over
Dave Jones: the last seven days 18,004,632 says
Adam Curry: Wow, wow. Wow. So
Dave Jones: it's about it's a little it's it's a little over
$1,000 A day going through? Gene been 1337 through cast Matic he
says Adam for what it's worth Chris Fisher at Jupiter
broadcasting has been talking about the podcast winter for
quite a long time now. I mentioned this simply to say
it's not just you that sees it. Did it
Adam Curry: does he call it the podcast winter though the actual
podcast winter that's interesting. No,
Kyrin Down: ad apocalypse or something like that. Okay, well,
Adam Curry: same. But podcast Winters is a is a bigger flows
from the ad pocalypse and from Spotify is failure and be just
bad news all around. No bad news. Meanwhile, it's not bad
news. The bad this is a great time to be a podcast and
especially to be have music in your podcast. Oh, what an
exciting time.
Kyrin Down: I'm gonna pull my shows. That was baffling value
for value music because like the intros and pre live stream
echoes livestream.
Adam Curry: Excellent.
Dave Jones: It's a podcast winner but it's a music summer.
Ellen see Paul 2000 sets the fountain he says spot on the
music analogy is very appropriate. And it's the same
thing that happened in the music industry. Individuality was
squashed in an effort to make masses follow along.
Adam Curry: I think Alan C. Paul, I think I've met him at
the SPARC media conference.
Dave Jones: Oh, interesting. Yeah, I was I don't recognize
that name. He's a new booster. Yes.
Adam Curry: He sent us a he sent Tina and I send us a a 21 day
devotional for creatives, which is pretty interesting. Just been
following. Yeah. I think that's I think that's alizee Paul.
Yeah. Oh, man.
Dave Jones: Cole McCormick 7777. Through fountain striper boost.
He says if you want to continue the discussion of the alternate
enclosure and what hosting companies can do better at check
out episode 101 of America plus the creator of pot home Barry
spoke with me about his vision and plan for the company. He's
legit go podcasting. I
Adam Curry: heard that interview. I listened to that
interview. It was great. It was it was also deep about about
Barry himself and his background and, you know, mushrooms and Oh,
yeah. Oh, yeah. That was an interesting conversation. That's
a pretty fun podcast. Listen to Oh, okay,
Dave Jones: podcast, hosting and shrooms. Alright? We need to get
baryons here.
Adam Curry: We do. Yeah. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Gene Everett 3333 through fat and he says boost
the dude. Okay. whooshed Kevin Bay. Oh, baller bass 122523
through pod verse.
Adam Curry: Whoa. Whoa, nice. Thank you.
Dave Jones: Thank you, Kevin. He says Christmas boost. Merry
Christmas, gentlemen.
Unknown: Merry Christmas.
Kyrin Down: Merry Christmas.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate that. Kevin has been
around forever. He's a longtime John. See if we got some from
John as JC 2233 through pod verse says Merry Christmas guys.
By the way, Adam, how is Texas slim doing is he's still around.
Adam Curry: Oh, good question. Texas. Slim was in Thailand for
several months. And, you know, he had intended to retire there
before he got dragged into into saving American children by
getting to eat American beef, grass fed grain finished beef.
And he was basically doing a tour through northern Thailand
on motorcycle. If he's badass. Okay, yeah, yes. But I think
he's he may maybe he might have come back today or two days ago.
So I think you'll see Texas limb start to crank up some stuff
again.
Dave Jones: I rode a motorcycle for many years. And I like as
like every day to work and back. And I wrote a Add a BMW 650
Adam Curry: GS. Oh, was this with a cylinder sticking out on
the side? No, that's
Dave Jones: the 1200 job I loved I had 650 this thing got set up
over 70 miles to the gallon. That's why That's why I wrote
it. But it was it was a cross country just like the 1200 gs
like it could go anywhere. Yeah, but but the guy that bought it
from me. And when I finally sold it at the guy that bought it
from me he was he worse up in the defense in the defense area
up in north Alabama. So he would work for I don't know what I
think he's the Texas them stuff reminded me this he would work
for like three years, and then build up enough cash. And then
he would him and his dad would go and buy motorcycles and like,
spend a year going across some continent and wow. And then they
would come back and he would just do it all over again. He
just did this cycle. Like it. Yeah, it's crazy, man. It's like
he was going he was buying my motorcycle to ride across West
Africa
Adam Curry: was so like Texas slim. No wife. No kids. Pretty
much. Uh huh. There's a correlation there for something.
Yes, there is.
Dave Jones: J Moon 5033 says the podcast index he says Merry
Christmas, gentlemen, to you and your families. Thank you. Thank
you, Jay moon. Dobby does do 20,000 SATs through fountain he
says it won't be able to listen to live. We'll be busy. So you
already got that stream?
Adam Curry: Not that one.
Dave Jones: Did you get homewrecker?
Adam Curry: I think I got tone wrecker. What a tone records
Dave Jones: scraping together some support sas after last
night's Minneapolis music stream. Yes.
Adam Curry: Yeah, we got that one. Okay. All right. To a
couple new ones that came in Cook 2112 Hey 21 told that's a
rush, rush boost. But this is from Getty is God.
Dave Jones: Oh, I don't know if he's God. But he's, he's really
good at the base.
Adam Curry: And it's from the from the podcasts index. The no
Eddie node pub key and custom data in the RSS feed value split
is the cache. If it sucks, if it succeeds, that's what they call
a cache hit and everything is golden. If it fails, then you
fetch from the key send value. Does that make any sense to you,
Dave?
Dave Jones: It does. Yeah, yeah, he's saying try a saint. Try
that first, then fall back to resolving the address if it
doesn't work. Got it. It makes sense. And
Adam Curry: Jeff, Jeff, Ron, see 777 Merry Christmas. Thank you.
And Jeanne Everett, boost boost boost my first time catching it
live. And there you go. Those are those alive boosts. Thank
you very much, Angie. Thank you.
Dave Jones: And we got some monthlies. We get zener Trevor
Zeno are $5 He's from Down Under Thank you, Trevor. Charles
current $5 Michael Gagan $5 Christopher Raymer $10 Shawn
McCune $20 Thank you. Shawn Cohen glotzbach $5 James
Sullivan $10. And we got a new monthly subscriber Michael Hall.
$5.50 Thank you, Michael. Thank you Michael. And we got an in
Kevin Bay also sent us $3.54 From the Parkinson's endowment
fund.
Thank you, Kevin.
Adam Curry: Thank you. That's truly isn't Donald let me check
the tally coin real quick. You know, we just do it because this
is where I say that you can support us value for value
supporting the whole index the whole project. It all goes into
the project nothing in the tally coin but if you want to go look
at nothing on the tally coin, you can go to podcast index.org
down at the bottom two red donate buttons one for your Fiat
fun coupons through Pay Pal which we appreciate the other
one for your on chain Bitcoin. Everyone told us I'll be sending
you I'll be sending you full coin. Okay. And of course what
we really want is for you to get a modern podcast that podcast
apps.com and grab one there, they're mature, they're good
they rock they you can integrate now with all kinds of different
payment systems strikes seems to be working well for people cash
app still a way to to get money in and working. It gets as Karen
said earlier, it's getting easier and easier. And we really
appreciate that as a way for you to send us value for the value
that the show and the whole project provides. Thank you
again for supporting podcasting. 2.0. Kira,
Dave Jones: we have we got a we got to talk next week. Next next
week. We got to get into more of a get started talking about 2024
And what we're going to focus on.
Adam Curry: Yes, well, you're going to tell us you're the pod
sage. You're going to tell us what we're going to focus on
which you will We'll probably be this serializing, your HTTP s
signature for the fediverse whatever that whatever the thing
is that you need done, that'll be that that'll be the first
thing that needs to be done.
Dave Jones: Yes,
Adam Curry: we've got to fix that. chyron Any closing words,
my friend?
Kyrin Down: Oh, I just wanted to thank you guys so much for
everything that you do like it, it needs no repeating. But it's,
you've completely changed my life in terms of like the
podcasting and the direction I wanted to focus on and go down.
So yeah, just coming across. What both of you have done is
just was spearheaded along with everyone else, of course, as has
been truly, truly amazing. So an early Christmas for me,
definitely appearing on the show as well. I have one question I
did want to ask was the Bitcoin meet up? Meet Up Bitcoin event
in July? Has there any news on that as you still got a slot on
the stage? What's What's the guy with that?
Adam Curry: Well, they reached out to me, and it was a very
weird conversation. They said, you know, we'd love to have you
on stage. Okay, here's the idea. I'm happy to do like a, you
know, a speech, a keynote, you know, whatever. And then I'd
like to do is, we'd like you to do panels at Great. I'll do a
panel. And I'd like to have a musician or podcasts or app
developer, and they said, great, and we want to have a politician
and a nasty guy. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, I says
podcasting. 2.0 Well, but you know, the draw of someone like
Tucker Carlson like, no, no, I don't want Tucker Carlson
onstage. I don't know. It's like, well, you know, we want
the PR values like, Oh, okay. And, um, that was the last I
heard from them. So I am, I have to say, Dave, you're going
right? Do you have tickets? They've you get tickets?
Dave Jones: No, I don't have tickets. Because I've been
trying to. I've been waiting to see if we even needed them.
Because I just don't know what, I don't know what's happening.
Man, I plan on going because it's so close to my house. I
mean, it's only two hours away, right? It's in Nashville, and
I'm in Birmingham. And so I plan on going but I'm like, Well, I
don't know if any tickets because I don't know if we're
actually going to do a presentation or anything.
Adam Curry: I'll reach out to I mean, I think there's enough
people are going to be going chyron that it's it's always fun
to meet up with people.
Kyrin Down: That was my plan, no matter what. Yeah. And the
Adam Curry: fact that if you're coming, and I'm sure Oscar is
going to be there. Dave if you're there, I mean, you know,
I'm not quite sure what days it is. Because, you know, like
producing stuff on the road. Because I have to keep kind of
my day job going. But you
Kyrin Down: know, I'd stay through Saturday is of course,
the horse
Adam Curry: couldn't be any worse. Yeah. So um, I'm not sure
but I will get an answer from those guys. Because I think it'd
be fun to do that. I think we could, you know, with we could
we could we could do the V for V LIVE I'd like and I was telling
was like, we have all this cool stuff. And we can have booster
grams that show up on the screens. We can have QR codes
for people to participate in the audience. It was like yeah, and
Tucker Carlson. Ah
Dave Jones: this is such a weird thing. Very weird.
Adam Curry: Well, you know, because we need it. We need a
big names. Like, what do you want? You want to have a
conference that is, informs people and show something that's
some stuff good stuff that's going on? Or
Dave Jones: did you tell them currents coming?
Adam Curry: There you? And I just said Hey, baby, we're gonna
have a nice little sesh on stage. Parents come in. That's
right. We got the pod sage on the stage. Yeah, baby.
Dave Jones: Please don't ever say sesh against like, says no.
This role.
Adam Curry: Thank you very much. boardroom. Thank you, everybody
who showed up at this late hour. Thank you. For those who are
tuning in late from overseas, baby. Yeah, you made it so extra
special tonight. Kyron Are you will? It's lunchtime for you.
Kyrin Down: It's just past it. But yeah, yeah. Okay.
Adam Curry: Well enjoy your enjoy your lunch day. My
brother. Do you have yourself a great weekend?
Dave Jones: You too, man. And Christmas. Yeah. Oh, that's
Adam Curry: right. Merry Christmas, everybody.
Kyrin Down: Merry Christmas. Right. We
Adam Curry: said Merry Christmas. And that'll do it for
podcasting. 2.0 for our pre Christmas Show.
Unknown: You guys are cool. You hope You have been listening to
podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org for more information.
Don't forget the beer podcast.