1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,580 Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0 for December 29 2023 Episode 161 2 00:00:05,580 --> 00:00:12,570 We're good with sterno all hohoho hello everybody welcome 3 00:00:12,570 --> 00:00:17,100 to podcasting 2.0 The official board meeting that encompasses 4 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:20,310 all of podcasting go nowhere else all you need to be is right 5 00:00:20,310 --> 00:00:23,670 here the only boardroom that has meetings during vacations and 6 00:00:23,670 --> 00:00:26,760 holidays. Oh yes, you want to know what's happening what the 7 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,820 latest is what's going on with the index with the namespace all 8 00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:32,730 the discussion to podcast index on social you came to the right 9 00:00:32,730 --> 00:00:35,610 place I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country 10 00:00:35,610 --> 00:00:39,690 and in Alabama, the man who's prettifying the index one rust 11 00:00:39,690 --> 00:00:43,410 code line at a time say hello to my friend on the other end the 12 00:00:43,410 --> 00:00:45,960 one and only Mr. Day 13 00:00:48,930 --> 00:00:52,470 Dave Jones: barely made it. But I got it. I got a piece I got a 14 00:00:52,470 --> 00:00:56,100 big chunk of tape, copper tape between the road caster and my 15 00:00:56,100 --> 00:00:57,060 USBC cable. 16 00:00:57,150 --> 00:00:59,040 Adam Curry: I gotta I gotta get some of that that sounds like a 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,670 really good idea. Instead of the fair IQs 18 00:01:03,150 --> 00:01:06,120 Dave Jones: there's like a roll it comes in a roll so like it 19 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:11,400 looks like it's the size of duct tape. But it's it's just copper 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,320 foil so here's why I got it 21 00:01:15,390 --> 00:01:17,130 Adam Curry: yeah, I was gonna say what do you typically buy 22 00:01:17,130 --> 00:01:20,670 that for not to not to shield your USB cables no doubt 23 00:01:21,570 --> 00:01:27,270 Dave Jones: about it to line sorry, though to line the inside 24 00:01:27,270 --> 00:01:32,580 of my guitar, electronics cavities where they route the 25 00:01:32,580 --> 00:01:38,910 guitar body out because guitars they're not balanced balanced 26 00:01:38,910 --> 00:01:40,080 input same things 27 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,090 Adam Curry: you got to you got to pick up literally a pickup 28 00:01:42,090 --> 00:01:45,300 that is there to pick up all kinds of stuff. Yeah, noise 29 00:01:45,900 --> 00:01:48,150 Dave Jones: guitar electric guitars are basically noise 30 00:01:48,150 --> 00:01:49,620 amplifiers. Yes. 31 00:01:50,010 --> 00:01:53,160 Adam Curry: We discovered a Dave had a little weird noise how the 32 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,540 road caster and I immediately said move the USB cable. And he 33 00:01:57,540 --> 00:01:59,670 did and it worked was great. It was 34 00:01:59,670 --> 00:02:02,460 Dave Jones: like magic. And immediately it was gone. But the 35 00:02:02,460 --> 00:02:06,660 problem is my USBC cable. Yeah, is always already stretched to 36 00:02:06,660 --> 00:02:10,860 his limit. So okay, wanting to always go back and rest on top 37 00:02:10,860 --> 00:02:15,270 of the XLR jack. So I just put some copper foil there. I feel 38 00:02:15,270 --> 00:02:17,160 like we're in good shape. I know I don't hear any hizzy 39 00:02:17,190 --> 00:02:20,250 Adam Curry: I think I need some of this copper foil tape to keep 40 00:02:20,250 --> 00:02:21,780 my tinfoil hat in place. 41 00:02:23,820 --> 00:02:26,400 Dave Jones: You basically make a build up yeah, what the hell 42 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,480 this thing's what's the rooms that you make out a coil? Oh, I 43 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,850 Adam Curry: mean a Faraday Faraday cage Faraday cage. Yeah. 44 00:02:32,850 --> 00:02:32,940 You're 45 00:02:32,940 --> 00:02:34,140 Dave Jones: gonna Faraday cage your head. 46 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,130 Adam Curry: Well, Dave, here we are. It's the end of the year. 47 00:02:38,130 --> 00:02:44,070 It's another year of podcasting. 2.0 We're still friends. I love 48 00:02:44,070 --> 00:02:48,060 that. We've been friends now. Is this our 13th year 14th year? No 49 00:02:48,090 --> 00:02:51,600 more even maybe? Oh, 14th year I think 50 00:02:52,650 --> 00:02:55,650 Dave Jones: we started to freedom controller what? 2010 or 51 00:02:55,650 --> 00:02:57,060 2009. So I'm like, almost as 52 00:02:57,060 --> 00:02:58,740 Adam Curry: long as two wives put together 53 00:03:01,980 --> 00:03:03,360 Dave Jones: we've never had a fun never. 54 00:03:03,390 --> 00:03:05,700 Adam Curry: We never had a fight. Actually never. I don't 55 00:03:05,700 --> 00:03:07,620 think we've ever had a fight. I 56 00:03:07,620 --> 00:03:10,740 Dave Jones: can't remember one. No, no, it was it was a tiny 57 00:03:10,740 --> 00:03:12,660 one. And I don't remember and I moved on fast. 58 00:03:13,590 --> 00:03:15,690 Adam Curry: Implying that it was my fault. Nice. 59 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:18,150 Dave Jones: You took the bait 60 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:24,660 Adam Curry: was It was fun listening to some of the year 61 00:03:24,660 --> 00:03:30,060 end shows? Listening to Todd and Rob and then listening to the 62 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,780 podcast industrial complex on the although somehow they 63 00:03:33,780 --> 00:03:36,150 slipped you in? How did you get in the door? 64 00:03:37,980 --> 00:03:40,500 Dave Jones: See, I just I've gotten pretty good at that about 65 00:03:40,590 --> 00:03:44,640 just it's like do you remember in the office when that? That 66 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,060 woman she just went and sat in the office and set up all our 67 00:03:48,060 --> 00:03:51,810 stuff in nobody in? She just became the manager just because 68 00:03:51,810 --> 00:03:55,170 she interloper. Yeah, exactly. I just interlocked my way into 69 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:55,800 into various 70 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,690 Adam Curry: podcasts this year. Yeah, that was good. That was 71 00:03:57,690 --> 00:03:59,640 good. I'd like that. But otherwise, like, we don't 72 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,290 Dave Jones: know why he's here. But I guess we'll play him 73 00:04:01,290 --> 00:04:01,740 anyway. 74 00:04:01,950 --> 00:04:05,610 Adam Curry: And then was the the media roundtable which is just 75 00:04:05,610 --> 00:04:08,790 it's become a favorite. Listen, I don't want to say hey, I don't 76 00:04:08,790 --> 00:04:11,820 want to say hate listen, because I don't I don't hate them at 77 00:04:11,820 --> 00:04:14,880 all. No, not at all, you know, but I just listened to him. And 78 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,710 I, I feel I felt bad. Because everyone's you know, kind of 79 00:04:19,740 --> 00:04:23,430 demure, and you know, it's all going down. And we don't know 80 00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:27,060 how to count downloads or impressions or whatever. We 81 00:04:27,060 --> 00:04:31,230 don't know what to count anymore. And it's confusing and 82 00:04:31,530 --> 00:04:35,700 people aren't buying ads. And we have to go I do like the term 83 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:39,600 NTR this is a good one. I think James who was on the roundtable 84 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:45,270 he came with NTR what is that? Oh, non traditional revenue. Oh, 85 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,620 I like to like it. I like NTR Yeah. And TR and they just use 86 00:04:49,620 --> 00:04:53,070 it as an acronym. I had never heard of it before. Well, yes, I 87 00:04:53,070 --> 00:04:56,820 think NTR so basically, that means everything except 88 00:04:56,820 --> 00:05:00,360 advertising and value for value for some reason. It was like Oh, 89 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:11,970 Nick the red. What? Which was interesting, because not nary a 90 00:05:11,970 --> 00:05:14,220 mention of value for value. 91 00:05:14,940 --> 00:05:18,150 Dave Jones: No, no, I was listening closely. And I liked 92 00:05:18,150 --> 00:05:21,990 the media roundtable too, because it's like a it's like a 93 00:05:21,990 --> 00:05:25,470 window into the mind of the podcast industrial complex into 94 00:05:25,470 --> 00:05:25,620 the 95 00:05:25,620 --> 00:05:30,060 Adam Curry: dark soul. The soul is dark hole of the podcast 96 00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:32,340 industrial complex. You're staring 97 00:05:32,340 --> 00:05:35,850 Dave Jones: weakly into complex places hold 98 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,850 Unknown: the abyss. Yes. And 99 00:05:38,850 --> 00:05:40,020 Dave Jones: it's depressing sometimes. 100 00:05:40,050 --> 00:05:45,840 Adam Curry: Yeah. I'm so amazed by again. We'll get to that. I 101 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:48,870 think you have some clips. So I'll reserve my comments, 102 00:05:49,050 --> 00:05:52,050 perhaps until you play those so we can just because we got a lot 103 00:05:52,050 --> 00:05:53,370 of other stuff to talk about. 104 00:05:53,970 --> 00:05:54,840 Dave Jones: Yeah, for sure. 105 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:56,970 Adam Curry: You want to play these clips? Your viewers 106 00:05:56,970 --> 00:05:59,760 because Mr. does that stand for media roundtable? 107 00:06:00,270 --> 00:06:04,110 Dave Jones: It does. C stands for let's just 108 00:06:04,110 --> 00:06:05,790 Adam Curry: get it out of the way so we can move forward and 109 00:06:05,790 --> 00:06:07,230 get ready for 2024. 110 00:06:07,830 --> 00:06:12,480 Dave Jones: Okay, so the, you know, we've been on this on this 111 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:19,320 tip million on the tip of what, what is the real reason why 112 00:06:19,830 --> 00:06:25,380 podcasts wide, the term podcast is getting redefined writing 113 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:31,770 anything, especially YouTube videos. And they sort of they 114 00:06:31,770 --> 00:06:34,080 always dance around when I say they I mean, the podcast 115 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,170 industrial complex, which the podcast industrial complex for 116 00:06:37,170 --> 00:06:42,570 these, for purposes of this discussion, is I'm defining as 117 00:06:43,050 --> 00:06:48,900 the digital the digital advertising, ie buyers, and 118 00:06:48,900 --> 00:06:51,000 brokers and agencies 119 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,690 Adam Curry: and researchers, and researchers and press. 120 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,800 Dave Jones: And press yes. All of the everybody attached to 121 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,720 digital advertising, who is then layered on top of the podcast 122 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:09,120 infrastructure. So they're basically using podcasting as 123 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:14,550 just another digital advertising channel. So they don't have any 124 00:07:14,970 --> 00:07:20,700 really inherent loyalty to podcasting as, as a medium. It's 125 00:07:20,700 --> 00:07:23,400 just, they just happen to be there tomorrow, it can be 126 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,940 something else. So we know that, you know, they say these things 127 00:07:26,940 --> 00:07:32,070 in in this way. But this is like the clearest example that I've 128 00:07:32,070 --> 00:07:37,350 heard they there. They get on this talk about what what does 129 00:07:37,350 --> 00:07:41,880 it wasn't mean for YouTube videos to be called podcast. And 130 00:07:42,870 --> 00:07:46,800 sky Pillsbury, who writes a newsletter was on there. And she 131 00:07:46,890 --> 00:07:47,190 actually 132 00:07:47,190 --> 00:07:49,680 Adam Curry: liked her the best I'd liked her the best of all 133 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,990 the people I heard. Yeah, she was interesting. I'm not heard 134 00:07:51,990 --> 00:07:53,850 of before. Yeah, great name, too. 135 00:07:56,250 --> 00:07:59,910 Dave Jones: So she was saying that, that she's got a real 136 00:07:59,910 --> 00:08:03,090 problem with her, she hates the fact that this the YouTube 137 00:08:03,090 --> 00:08:07,800 videos are being called podcasts. And this in this 138 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:13,740 discussion ensues, which contains basically the clearest 139 00:08:13,740 --> 00:08:20,460 explanation of the way this thing works. And then and then 140 00:08:20,460 --> 00:08:24,810 she she asks a follow up, and it clarifies it even more. So. The 141 00:08:25,980 --> 00:08:32,220 she they ask the host, what, you know what the deal is with with 142 00:08:32,220 --> 00:08:36,240 all that on the buying side? And basically what he says is a 143 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,380 podcast is whatever you need it to be to sell it. Yeah, 144 00:08:40,380 --> 00:08:43,230 Unknown: here's how I would look at it, on behalf of the buying 145 00:08:43,230 --> 00:08:48,810 community is that complexity is not our friend. You know, if you 146 00:08:48,810 --> 00:08:54,060 think about, I think that, that large agencies and large brands 147 00:08:54,060 --> 00:08:56,730 have to create a bunch of rules. And right now they draw their 148 00:08:56,730 --> 00:09:00,750 lines, all different places. So some people put podcasts in 149 00:09:00,750 --> 00:09:03,510 their radio line items, some people put it under digital 150 00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:07,170 because they're streaming heavy. Some people have a digital audio 151 00:09:07,170 --> 00:09:12,270 line item, but how that is coded for a brand when they set their 152 00:09:12,270 --> 00:09:17,190 budgets is really, really significant. And, and so I 153 00:09:17,190 --> 00:09:20,580 remember in the early days, I mean, we're really talking five 154 00:09:20,580 --> 00:09:24,390 to 10 years ago, it was there were a lot of networks working 155 00:09:24,390 --> 00:09:27,180 very hard to go to Madison Avenue meet with the big holding 156 00:09:27,180 --> 00:09:30,750 companies and fight for them to add podcasting as a line item on 157 00:09:30,750 --> 00:09:35,700 their budgets. And I think that that is happening increasingly I 158 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:38,310 think that the momentum is there and it's going to be the rule. 159 00:09:39,630 --> 00:09:45,210 And so So the challenge is if you if you force a new 160 00:09:45,210 --> 00:09:49,110 definition to something that is a podcast that goes on video, if 161 00:09:49,110 --> 00:09:52,140 it's a native audio conversation, that you're now 162 00:09:52,140 --> 00:09:56,250 distributing with a video on a video platform, probably YouTube 163 00:09:56,250 --> 00:09:59,490 possibly elsewhere, you're gonna have some he's gonna have to go 164 00:09:59,490 --> 00:10:02,550 fight that battle all over again or the video impressions will 165 00:10:02,550 --> 00:10:07,500 get neglected. And so we kind of have some infrastructure around 166 00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:10,110 people doing influencer marketing with YouTube 167 00:10:10,110 --> 00:10:14,160 influencers. And then you have podcast and audio influencers, 168 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,460 but when they crossover between the two, it can really get lost 169 00:10:17,460 --> 00:10:22,320 in the shuffle. And if you want creators to maximize the revenue 170 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,740 they could be getting to support their shows. The best way to do 171 00:10:25,740 --> 00:10:30,420 that is to give them simple definitions for the brand 172 00:10:30,420 --> 00:10:31,860 community to buy through. 173 00:10:32,850 --> 00:10:35,280 Adam Curry: Oh, man, hold on a second. A couple of words I 174 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:41,910 wrote down by buying community brands community podcast 175 00:10:41,940 --> 00:10:46,470 influencers and native audio conversations. 176 00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:48,300 Dave Jones: Like knack. 177 00:10:49,770 --> 00:10:52,410 Adam Curry: NTR is knack. Okay. 178 00:10:52,860 --> 00:10:55,590 Dave Jones: Hey, you have a knack for potty podcast 179 00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:57,750 influencers? Who Who would that be? 180 00:10:59,730 --> 00:11:05,040 Adam Curry: It's it's a it's a well informed the whole thing is 181 00:11:05,070 --> 00:11:09,570 what is being ignored here is the actual audience who gives a 182 00:11:09,570 --> 00:11:13,920 crap as long as we got some numbers only got influencers, I 183 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:19,350 think are people who you do native ads, basically. Okay, 184 00:11:19,380 --> 00:11:23,220 Dave Jones: okay. That's funny. He's doing his brand. Yeah. 185 00:11:23,220 --> 00:11:23,550 Okay. 186 00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:26,670 Adam Curry: It's using something or he's talking about something. 187 00:11:27,330 --> 00:11:30,870 YouTube is filled with these, of course, I mean, even in the, in 188 00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:35,430 the, in our space. In our in the podcast space. You see guys who 189 00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:39,900 were reviewing mixers and microphones, their influences 190 00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:42,090 whether they're getting paid for it or not. They're influencers 191 00:11:42,090 --> 00:11:45,180 because they're talking about a brand unboxers all this stuff. 192 00:11:45,180 --> 00:11:48,360 It's all that was all it's all kind of geared towards commerce 193 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,800 and towards the sale of products and services. But But yeah, 194 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,920 there's so there's no, there's no real I didn't want here just 195 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,000 say podcasting, podcasts, influencers, native audio 196 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,170 conversations, YouTube videos, I didn't have just podcasters 197 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:05,400 podcasters. 198 00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:09,240 Dave Jones: She so Skye Pillsbury follows up just to 199 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,780 make sure that the because that that was, as you mentioned, that 200 00:12:13,020 --> 00:12:18,360 reply was it was clear in its structure, but it was muddled 201 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:23,070 with a lot of like, you know, jargon, industry jargon. So in 202 00:12:23,070 --> 00:12:27,540 the digital ad space jargon, so she makes a follow up to clarify 203 00:12:27,570 --> 00:12:29,550 and make it even simpler, what's going on. 204 00:12:29,850 --> 00:12:31,860 Unknown: But you're saying it's interesting, because what you're 205 00:12:31,860 --> 00:12:37,470 saying is that it actually what I'm seeing as complicating what 206 00:12:37,470 --> 00:12:42,900 a podcast is, you're saying, actually keeping the term 207 00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:47,310 podcast, even if it's on YouTube, keeps it simpler for 208 00:12:47,310 --> 00:12:51,330 the advertising buyer. And and that makes complete sense to me. 209 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:52,410 So yeah, 210 00:12:52,410 --> 00:12:55,410 because otherwise, they've got to go across the hall and go to 211 00:12:55,410 --> 00:12:59,100 the influencer team and go, Hey, can I get some of your revenue 212 00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:02,160 to put against the video component of this podcast? You 213 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,800 don't want them having to do that the more steps they got to 214 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,880 take, the less likely they are to do it. So 100%? Yeah, so I 215 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,610 think it's actually better for their business if they if we can 216 00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:13,320 forego that. So 217 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:19,200 Adam Curry: here's what I like about this. This shows that the 218 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,690 media, the buying community are idiots, because the idiots are 219 00:13:24,690 --> 00:13:27,000 they don't care that there's probably more like they don't 220 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:32,760 care. Right? Yeah. And I was in this I built a $450 million a 221 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,720 year revenue company with 700. Employee a co built, I should 222 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,080 say, was 700 employees. And we did this I know all the 223 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,670 acronyms. I made up acronyms. The I sold statistics, do you 224 00:13:44,670 --> 00:13:47,640 remember the what was that? There was a stats package early, 225 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,850 early days, maybe it's like web stats, or something you could 226 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,770 was basically a log file analyzer. And it would spit out 227 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,700 charts and you know, it had early days, right? It had hits 228 00:13:59,940 --> 00:14:03,750 and stuff like that. And we could have just given that to 229 00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:09,210 our client, the advertiser who looks to us to be smart. But 230 00:14:09,210 --> 00:14:16,830 instead we we said no, no, we give you are ASAP. Was that? The 231 00:14:16,830 --> 00:14:22,020 Yeah, the advanced statistics analysis package. So so we would 232 00:14:22,020 --> 00:14:25,770 give them the charts. Maghrib Yeah, regular grid, right. We'd 233 00:14:25,770 --> 00:14:30,840 sit down and and we walk them through it and explain your 234 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,440 analysis of what all this meant. And then we could charge for it 235 00:14:34,590 --> 00:14:37,530 just handed out you know, or here's, here's a stats page. 236 00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:40,470 What a loss I actually think Todd does does this pretty well, 237 00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:44,520 blueberry, I'm not sure if there's only one Todd but to 238 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,240 actually walk through your stats and say here here's what's going 239 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,930 on here. Here's what I'm seeing and he has very detailed 240 00:14:51,930 --> 00:14:57,450 knowledge of of the download game but he's he's alone guy, 241 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:04,230 you know, it's like all of this is but they were talking on a 242 00:15:04,260 --> 00:15:11,010 new new media show that some Heather Osgood or someone, some 243 00:15:11,010 --> 00:15:13,170 was moving to impressions because you know, we can't 244 00:15:13,170 --> 00:15:17,190 actually get you listens, or plays, or downloads, the whole 245 00:15:17,190 --> 00:15:20,250 thing is broken. It's 20 years later, If I hear one more person 246 00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:23,850 say we're so no, it's such a new medium, right? The industry is 247 00:15:23,850 --> 00:15:26,940 so young. No, it's not. You've just failed at doing this over 248 00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:29,850 and over and over again. And there was one other thing I 249 00:15:29,850 --> 00:15:34,680 didn't clip it. But they also talked about studios, like, 250 00:15:34,860 --> 00:15:38,520 like, Okay, now at MGM, all of a sudden, the MGM of podcasting. 251 00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:41,910 So you have studios, which were all destroyed and swallowed up 252 00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:45,840 by Spotify. They were they were dying anyway. They, you know, 253 00:15:45,870 --> 00:15:48,390 they really, it has no reason for life 254 00:15:48,390 --> 00:15:50,790 Dave Jones: was prolonged. Yeah, what 255 00:15:50,790 --> 00:15:54,360 Adam Curry: they call networks, you know, and all of that. I 256 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,440 know this because I failed at it myself. It took 10 years, and we 257 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,160 had the video bullcrap come in. It's just a complete repeat. So 258 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,280 it's easy for me to to see what's happening and to predict 259 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,730 what will go down. Because obviously, the next thing is, 260 00:16:08,820 --> 00:16:12,480 we'll just make podcasts for brands. Here's the Acura RDX 261 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,260 podcast. I mean, that's what it always devolves to. But the 262 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:20,100 thing that was interesting, was, they asked, and this is where 263 00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:23,820 you cannot monetize. The network comes in there. I actually heard 264 00:16:23,820 --> 00:16:29,460 someone say, well, hopefully, studios, I think studio slash 265 00:16:29,460 --> 00:16:33,510 networks will be able to fund enough, you know, simple chat 266 00:16:33,510 --> 00:16:37,110 shows, just like we're doing just two people on a podcast, I 267 00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:43,260 heard that in order to put lots of lots of money into, you know, 268 00:16:43,260 --> 00:16:48,240 the long form highly edited, $150,000 producers travel all 269 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,110 over the world podcast. Let me tell you how that's gonna work 270 00:16:52,110 --> 00:16:55,740 out for you with your network or your studio. The people who are 271 00:16:56,130 --> 00:16:57,870 the people who are bringing in the money that you're then 272 00:16:57,870 --> 00:17:00,900 spending on the on the non profitable stuff, we're gonna 273 00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:04,110 get mad and you're gonna leave, like, what do I need you for? 274 00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:08,280 I'm popular. I got my listeners, I don't need you to take my 275 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,860 money and give it to something else. It's not making money 276 00:17:10,860 --> 00:17:14,970 because you can go to the award show. Because that's literally 277 00:17:14,970 --> 00:17:16,320 what it is. They 278 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:21,449 Dave Jones: denigrated. They denigrated radio a lot. And I'm 279 00:17:21,449 --> 00:17:24,449 sure it's not because they hate radio. It's not mean they're 280 00:17:24,449 --> 00:17:27,719 they're radio people. It's because they they think it's a 281 00:17:27,719 --> 00:17:31,949 dying a dying medium. But the thing is radio still makes so 282 00:17:31,949 --> 00:17:36,749 much money. More more money than podcasting. Well, I mean, in in, 283 00:17:36,779 --> 00:17:40,169 like, if you're, if you're saying they use the term, the 284 00:17:40,169 --> 00:17:44,039 radio ification of podcasting and how that's a bad thing. 285 00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:47,549 Well, I mean, it's the radio ification of podcasting means 286 00:17:47,549 --> 00:17:50,729 podcasting can actually make money. Well, that doesn't seem 287 00:17:50,729 --> 00:17:55,649 like it's a bad thing to me. Well, all talking. If you take 288 00:17:55,649 --> 00:17:59,819 me there's only two forms of radio, broadcast radio, there's 289 00:17:59,819 --> 00:18:04,229 music, and there's people talking it that's those are your 290 00:18:04,229 --> 00:18:07,079 those are your two things and plan podcasting. Is people 291 00:18:07,079 --> 00:18:10,259 talking and that makes money. It makes lots and lots and lots of 292 00:18:10,259 --> 00:18:11,309 money. Well, 293 00:18:11,310 --> 00:18:16,530 Adam Curry: the Okay, so here's the issue with radio. Radio, 294 00:18:17,070 --> 00:18:20,550 hear myself back from the I don't know why you have a fader 295 00:18:20,550 --> 00:18:25,740 open or something represent things. It could just be doesn't 296 00:18:25,740 --> 00:18:31,590 matter. One, two to three days ago, that's where professionals 297 00:18:32,670 --> 00:18:36,120 is it? I don't know what it is. It's like it's might become 298 00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:40,620 through headphones. I don't know. Oh, gosh, probably not. I 299 00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:45,210 don't know it could be for me. Radio down, I'll turn it over 300 00:18:45,210 --> 00:18:48,720 there that fix it. Thank you radio practice, but his ruined 301 00:18:48,990 --> 00:18:52,290 radio is ruined because the audiences are ruined, which 302 00:18:52,290 --> 00:18:55,410 podcasting did now that doesn't mean that radio is dead, not by 303 00:18:55,410 --> 00:19:00,000 a longshot. Radio is ubiquitous. You have radio receivers 304 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,490 everywhere. I remember Steve Jobs said to me, Adam, I want to 305 00:19:02,490 --> 00:19:06,240 build radio receivers for you. And that was the iPod. That was 306 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:11,190 that was the whole idea was to have one transmission protocol. 307 00:19:11,580 --> 00:19:15,840 And then hundreds of millions of radios all around the world 308 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,960 doesn't matter what device you have, it should be able to 309 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,670 receive this signal. This RSS signals is a rock solid signal. 310 00:19:25,050 --> 00:19:29,280 The problem with radio is yes, it still makes oodles of money. 311 00:19:29,370 --> 00:19:32,730 Although if you go look at some of the companies that have 312 00:19:32,730 --> 00:19:37,440 consolidated, they are losing money hand over fist they can't 313 00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:42,330 keep up the revenue because they have CPMs which is diluted 314 00:19:42,330 --> 00:19:46,260 across the board for everybody. So it is a race to the bottom 315 00:19:46,260 --> 00:19:49,800 CPMs always are and they've stacked 20 minutes of 316 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,700 advertising into every hour of radio. And this is exactly why 317 00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:58,140 podcasting in the beginning was so exciting and beautiful. 318 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,400 Because you heard heard voices you typically wouldn't hear not 319 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:07,170 your train NPR voices. You heard normal people talking about 320 00:20:07,170 --> 00:20:10,080 normal people stuff. They weren't hurry, they weren't 321 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,900 worried about the program director. They weren't worried 322 00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:15,780 about anything about time hitting the news at the top of 323 00:20:15,780 --> 00:20:19,140 the hour. In fact, I went back, and I got the opening to my 324 00:20:19,140 --> 00:20:23,550 daily source code. Now this is already after, probably after 325 00:20:23,580 --> 00:20:28,200 six months, or maybe nine months of episodes. But this was 326 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,890 literally the opening of the daily source code, something 327 00:20:31,890 --> 00:20:32,580 remarkable 328 00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:35,970 Unknown: is happening. Yeah, radio is springing free of the 329 00:20:35,970 --> 00:20:39,570 regulated gatekeepers who manage what you've been here, since 330 00:20:39,570 --> 00:20:43,740 radio was invented. It's jumping into the hands of anyone at all 331 00:20:43,740 --> 00:20:45,630 was something or nothing to say. 332 00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:48,540 Adam Curry: And that was the beauty of it. You could do 333 00:20:48,540 --> 00:20:51,780 whatever you wanted. No gatekeepers. You don't hear 334 00:20:51,780 --> 00:20:54,930 anywhere, like we can make money now we don't need you and we can 335 00:20:54,930 --> 00:20:58,050 make money your own. No, none of that was there that was never, 336 00:20:58,170 --> 00:21:02,790 never in play, that I fall into that trap, of course. But that 337 00:21:02,790 --> 00:21:09,300 was never the original intent. And then the digital media 338 00:21:10,020 --> 00:21:16,290 industry, decided to call the podcasting, space, an industry 339 00:21:16,650 --> 00:21:20,820 and started and decided to call podcasters Indies. I really, 340 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,560 really grabbed my goat. And so when I see the Hollywood 341 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,760 Reporter coming out with their article, podcasting will grow 342 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,930 and 2024 so they have the opening of this article, 343 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:39,330 Spurlock posted this going into 2020 for podcasting executives. 344 00:21:40,740 --> 00:21:45,180 Dive to pause right there. Who are these podcasting executives? 345 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:45,840 Yeah, 346 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,870 Dave Jones: Who Who are these guys is a podcasting executive 347 00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:49,680 podcasting 348 00:21:49,710 --> 00:21:53,010 Adam Curry: executives remain incredibly bullish on growth in 349 00:21:53,010 --> 00:21:57,240 the sector, with an eye toward creating multiple revenue 350 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,560 streams for creators, and using artificial intelligence and 351 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:09,120 video to expand the audience. So this is bullcrap. This is utter, 352 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:13,230 utter utter bull crap. Artificial Intelligence and 353 00:22:13,230 --> 00:22:16,710 video will expand the audience. There's no evidence for this 354 00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:19,650 other than internal research. And we went through that in the 355 00:22:19,650 --> 00:22:22,770 last show how you can get the answers you want from the 356 00:22:22,770 --> 00:22:26,100 questions you ask. It's all biased. But let's just run down 357 00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:29,520 a few things here what's happening, and for 2024, I'm 358 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,820 going to be a little bit more direct. So first of all, 359 00:22:32,820 --> 00:22:38,100 podcasting is not something you monetize your audience that you 360 00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:41,970 need to grow. It's not something you have to monetize you podcast 361 00:22:41,970 --> 00:22:45,420 because you have something or nothing to say. And you want to 362 00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:48,090 say it without anybody stopping you from say that you may want 363 00:22:48,090 --> 00:22:51,630 to say something to the Rotary Club, you may want it's not a 364 00:22:51,660 --> 00:22:55,440 it's not a it's not a vocation. It's not like blogging. This is 365 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,320 blogging started the same way. I'm going to be a blogger, I'm 366 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,800 going to make that my career, very few people have made that 367 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:07,230 their career. Very few. It's incredibly hard. YouTube is 368 00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:13,020 evil. Google started their entire business by saying, Don't 369 00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:16,530 be evil. You don't have to say that unless you know you're 370 00:23:16,530 --> 00:23:20,040 going to be evil. YouTube was in their prospectus. The s one 371 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:26,070 filing document. YouTube is evil. Google killed RSS once 372 00:23:26,070 --> 00:23:29,490 before with Google Reader. And they came out with failed 373 00:23:29,490 --> 00:23:34,080 product after failed products. And it was actually I realized 374 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,690 now because a Tina use that and she and I was talking to her 375 00:23:36,690 --> 00:23:40,170 about it, too. What was it that you liked about that? She said, 376 00:23:40,170 --> 00:23:44,910 Well, it was really a search engine. Because I could search 377 00:23:44,910 --> 00:23:50,040 for a topic a term and I get a bunch of nuts. You didn't say 378 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,380 feeds but she understands that what they weren't, she did I get 379 00:23:52,380 --> 00:23:57,150 a bunch of blogs and sites that I could then subscribe to. And I 380 00:23:57,150 --> 00:24:01,050 could categorize them and put them into boxes. And I you know, 381 00:24:01,050 --> 00:24:06,630 and because she was a marketing of a mark com communications 382 00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:11,490 specialist. And she really liked that she could follow stuff. And 383 00:24:11,490 --> 00:24:13,410 she could also if something was of no value, she could 384 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,560 unsubscribe, but she was in total control of it. So it's 385 00:24:16,590 --> 00:24:21,270 it's important to note that she didn't have to go find stuff or 386 00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:24,450 if she found a blog, she wouldn't have to hunt. She did 387 00:24:24,450 --> 00:24:30,360 not hunt around for an RSS icon. You know or 5000 Chiclets. 388 00:24:30,690 --> 00:24:34,230 Subscribe with all this, she just went to her her app, her 389 00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:36,750 reader, which was Google Reader and search for it and then 390 00:24:36,750 --> 00:24:40,080 clicked subscribe. That's very important. This is where 391 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,640 podcasting went above and beyond blogs, because we came up with 392 00:24:44,910 --> 00:24:47,250 with places where you could search and that search is 393 00:24:47,250 --> 00:24:51,210 distributed to the apps, but Google is evil. They killed RSS 394 00:24:51,210 --> 00:24:55,380 once before. Anybody who thinks that they are that they're being 395 00:24:55,380 --> 00:25:01,350 kind to RSS, you're fooling yourself. So our struggle I'll 396 00:25:01,350 --> 00:25:04,770 just call the struggle, my fight our struggle for 2024 is not 397 00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:08,280 it's, it's against the so called leaders, the rulers, the 398 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,240 authorities, the executives, it's against the power of dark 399 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,370 worlds of platforms, and the evil forces they run on. greed, 400 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:25,440 vanity, pride and laziness. And that's where AI comes in. learn 401 00:25:25,470 --> 00:25:29,850 a trade, learn to craft, and learn how to edit, blurred, how 402 00:25:29,850 --> 00:25:33,960 to make a good mic sound, go to someone to get some, some 403 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,680 learning, listen to them, ask them questions. AI is not going 404 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,050 to solve everything for you particularly won't make you 405 00:25:40,050 --> 00:25:44,820 human. It will make you less human. And being human is one of 406 00:25:44,820 --> 00:25:48,900 the most beautiful things in the world. I remember when I just 407 00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:55,500 started on television, and I was 19 years old. And props to my 408 00:25:55,500 --> 00:26:00,300 first wife on this one. I was 19 years old. And I was doing doing 409 00:26:00,750 --> 00:26:04,560 half the country was watching me and I was very nervous. There 410 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,740 was it was I'd come out of radio, I'd never done 411 00:26:07,740 --> 00:26:11,160 television. Before I was sudden I've got 12 cameras, I've got 412 00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:15,090 the director's assistant directors, video switchers, 413 00:26:15,090 --> 00:26:17,880 camera, guys, you know, lighting people, I had to make friends 414 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,340 with everybody to understand how what I didn't understand what 415 00:26:20,340 --> 00:26:25,530 the director actually did. So I learned all that. And then I was 416 00:26:25,530 --> 00:26:30,450 trying to be as, as perfect as possible, you know, not fumble a 417 00:26:30,450 --> 00:26:35,310 word. And my wife at the time said, Why are you so messed up 418 00:26:35,310 --> 00:26:39,120 about that? It makes you human people like it when you do that. 419 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,820 And so I started to relax. And over the course of my career, 420 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,630 I've learned that that is true. The more human you are, the more 421 00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:51,570 personal you are, the more people can identify with you. 422 00:26:51,570 --> 00:26:54,960 You don't have to be the perfect NPR voice in the cloud. You 423 00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:02,310 don't. As I said, the concept of indie podcasting, I want you 424 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,150 You're dead to me if you talk that way. If you're a podcaster 425 00:27:06,180 --> 00:27:10,320 you're a podcaster not an indie, you're a podcaster there is no 426 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,680 podcasting industry. We just went through that they can't 427 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,640 even they didn't even say it No, it's this is influencers. It's 428 00:27:17,850 --> 00:27:21,900 buying community podcasting influences that native audio, no 429 00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:27,270 one said podcasting. So they don't care. So they don't get to 430 00:27:27,270 --> 00:27:32,040 take the name and call you an indie in the space consultants. 431 00:27:32,190 --> 00:27:36,840 Bullcrap, stay away from them. Ai production has already said 432 00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:40,020 this is this is not something you need in your life. 433 00:27:40,620 --> 00:27:45,960 Obviously, computer computers and I just I'm not going to use 434 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,770 AI, obviously, it's great to have a transcript run. Is that 435 00:27:49,770 --> 00:27:54,300 really the generative chat GPT for AI that everyone's promising 436 00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:58,620 us will take over the world and eat us? No, it's it's it's an 437 00:27:58,620 --> 00:28:02,940 algorithm and runs and works pretty well. Now it's It's okay. 438 00:28:02,970 --> 00:28:07,080 It's not great, but it's okay. And it works. Can you some have 439 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,280 your your podcast summarize? Yeah, you can, you're still 440 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,850 gonna have to look at it's like a dishwasher. Dishwashers they 441 00:28:14,850 --> 00:28:17,400 seem like they're really a good deal but you're handling the 442 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,200 dishes twice. You beard, you're you're rinsing it off putting it 443 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,990 in and you're drying them off via with the last remnants when 444 00:28:24,990 --> 00:28:28,110 you take it out and putting it away. You could do it all in one 445 00:28:28,110 --> 00:28:32,010 fell swoop. So AI is the dishwasher of Silicon Valley, 446 00:28:32,010 --> 00:28:32,490 how you go. 447 00:28:33,780 --> 00:28:35,790 Dave Jones: This is an interesting comp. This is an 448 00:28:35,790 --> 00:28:37,770 interesting line of line of thinking. I'm just sitting here 449 00:28:37,770 --> 00:28:41,070 listening to you talk about this and it reminds me so last night. 450 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,660 So I listened to this podcast called The Lord of spirits. 451 00:28:45,930 --> 00:28:49,710 Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. I've subscribed to those guys. Yeah, 452 00:28:49,710 --> 00:28:49,980 since 453 00:28:49,980 --> 00:28:53,010 Dave Jones: you a couple episodes. And it's a couple of 454 00:28:54,450 --> 00:28:59,490 Greek Orthodox priests who just kind of you know, chew the fat 455 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,590 about biblical topics and Philly and ain't your family. Yeah. 456 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,150 Ancient Faith. Yeah. Flood, you know, all sorts of flotsam and 457 00:29:09,150 --> 00:29:14,040 jetsam. And they discuss all kinds of things very, very 458 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,660 knowledgeable people and some it veers off often into other into 459 00:29:18,660 --> 00:29:22,800 other topics but so there's this episode leasing found a time 460 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:23,370 while you're fighting 461 00:29:23,370 --> 00:29:25,890 Adam Curry: that I just want to respond meatus BS your 462 00:29:25,890 --> 00:29:28,890 dishwasher, cleans and dries really well. You're still 463 00:29:28,890 --> 00:29:33,270 handling the plates twice. You put them in, you take them out 464 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,030 where it could go in one fell swoop and you're done for the 465 00:29:36,030 --> 00:29:39,360 night. Nothing Just nothing to do in the morning. 466 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,440 Dave Jones: This let's see where is it? 467 00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:48,660 Adam Curry: I'm sorry. He says our dishwasher cleans and dries 468 00:29:48,660 --> 00:29:56,370 really well. But I buy her flowers often. Wow. Wow. Well, 469 00:29:56,550 --> 00:29:58,800 Unknown: there was a punch line. Shaggy Dog, wouldn't it Well 470 00:29:58,800 --> 00:29:59,520 played sir. 471 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,710 Dave Jones: Yeah, enjoy your new year. Tell me how the couch is. 472 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,180 Let's see where am I can can find that oh, here it is here. 473 00:30:09,780 --> 00:30:12,900 It's the art inside the name of this episode is The Art and 474 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:19,320 Science of techno Mansi. So, techno Mansi is an interesting 475 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:24,600 word. This is about this episode was about technology. And so you 476 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:30,690 know, last year I read the book, the technological society, by 477 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:36,060 Jacques Aaloo. And one thing, he's what he said in that book 478 00:30:36,090 --> 00:30:39,180 mates up really well with what they were talking about in this 479 00:30:39,180 --> 00:30:43,380 episode. And they, they did it because he talks in that book 480 00:30:43,380 --> 00:30:50,310 about how technology with we think of it today, in terms of 481 00:30:50,370 --> 00:30:52,380 when we hear the word technology, we think of 482 00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:57,990 electronics, primarily. But mostly, it's mechanical, 483 00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:04,800 physical technology, in some so in some sense, but the 484 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:10,620 definition of technology really, is, anytime anytime you apply 485 00:31:10,620 --> 00:31:16,860 technique to solve for a problem, right? Or to effect 486 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,660 effectuate outcomes that are deterred determined by you, the 487 00:31:21,660 --> 00:31:26,580 person who's employing technique. And so in that sense, 488 00:31:26,940 --> 00:31:32,790 technique is or technology is, is just a form of knowledge. So 489 00:31:32,790 --> 00:31:35,250 they discuss this and there's like, well, you know, there's 490 00:31:35,250 --> 00:31:38,100 different types of knowledge and moral knowledge or ability to 491 00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:41,340 reason morally, and say, this is a good thing, this is a bad 492 00:31:41,340 --> 00:31:48,210 thing. There's philosophical knowledge, there is emotional 493 00:31:48,210 --> 00:31:52,350 knowledge, like the knowledge of, of loving relationships, 494 00:31:52,350 --> 00:31:55,860 things like this. There's all different forms of knowledge. 495 00:31:56,220 --> 00:32:01,530 And many words to describe these forms of knowledge. In tech, 496 00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:05,040 tech, Gnosis is just another technology, technological 497 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,650 knowledge is just another form of knowledge, this event in so 498 00:32:10,650 --> 00:32:13,740 if you look at all these things, that one of the prop were the 499 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:22,740 primary, pre industrial forms of, of, of technology was 500 00:32:23,310 --> 00:32:27,990 spiritual technology, or what you may even call magic. Do you 501 00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:36,780 know, so, this this spiritual technology is, are things like, 502 00:32:36,990 --> 00:32:42,120 you know, some sort of incantation or ceremony or or 503 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:49,050 liturgical process or even even certain types? Oh, that's the 504 00:32:49,050 --> 00:32:55,020 Thiele. theological knowledge, theological theories about 505 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,640 atonement and things like that, where you plug in, you plug in a 506 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,530 formula, and you get out this this thing. So you may, you may 507 00:33:04,530 --> 00:33:10,620 pray to a to a God, and that God has been bound to answer your 508 00:33:10,620 --> 00:33:14,250 prayer in some specific way, as long as you do the process or 509 00:33:14,250 --> 00:33:19,800 the ceremony correctly, or you sacrifice in a certain way and 510 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,760 Right, right, right, some outcome. And this was a real, I 511 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,180 mean, this was normal, this was just a typical thing that 512 00:33:27,180 --> 00:33:34,710 humanity did. And we like to, we like to think that we left we 513 00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:38,010 have this sort of progression myth of the progress of the 514 00:33:38,010 --> 00:33:43,110 progress of human human, you know, society as if we were old. 515 00:33:43,110 --> 00:33:48,540 And if older generations were, were dumber, or are somehow less 516 00:33:48,540 --> 00:33:52,980 informed, and we are now we've been on the slow march forward, 517 00:33:52,980 --> 00:33:57,990 this ascent of knowledge and intellect for 1000s of years. 518 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:04,080 When really, it doesn't work that way at all. There's no slow 519 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:09,570 linear progress forward in anything in humanity. We, it's a 520 00:34:09,570 --> 00:34:14,490 big, it's a big shit show of ups and downs and forwards and 521 00:34:14,490 --> 00:34:19,770 backwards. And what we've gotten now as far as I'm concerned, is, 522 00:34:21,240 --> 00:34:27,570 is a return of sort of spiritual, techno techno Mansi 523 00:34:28,170 --> 00:34:32,370 AI. In the rigor in terms of what you were talking in the 524 00:34:32,370 --> 00:34:35,970 context, what you were talking about, is some is a form of 525 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,830 conjuring. Yes. You're trying to, you're trying to say, Okay, 526 00:34:41,730 --> 00:34:46,680 I want to develop a way to conjure material out of out of 527 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:53,340 thin air so that I so that I look better. I don't I don't 528 00:34:53,340 --> 00:34:57,870 have to work as hard. It's a it's a sort of magic. In that 529 00:34:57,870 --> 00:35:01,260 sense. We've we've returned to spirit To all technology because 530 00:35:01,260 --> 00:35:10,110 ai, ai is just as fuzzy as any sort of incantation or, or for 531 00:35:10,110 --> 00:35:13,620 spiritual ceremony might be, you don't know what you're gonna get 532 00:35:13,650 --> 00:35:16,080 you think you're gonna get something? If you do it the 533 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,290 right way you think, Okay, well, the income, the outcome is going 534 00:35:19,290 --> 00:35:25,050 to be predictable, but that that spirit that you just conjured it 535 00:35:25,050 --> 00:35:28,740 could aid you in your in your endeavors or it could eat you. 536 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:30,480 You don't you don't actually know. 537 00:35:30,750 --> 00:35:35,160 Adam Curry: Well, there's a first of the moniker AI is just 538 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,660 wrong. I mean, I have a road caster, you couldn't call the 539 00:35:39,660 --> 00:35:43,860 processing that it does AI. I understand what it is I can 540 00:35:43,860 --> 00:35:46,020 create a noise gate from a competing limiter and 541 00:35:46,020 --> 00:35:48,900 compressor. I know how to do it, I understand it. I've done it 542 00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:56,580 with tube products. I understand what it is. And this is it's 543 00:35:56,580 --> 00:35:59,970 been baked into a tool. This is very old technology. If you want 544 00:35:59,970 --> 00:36:04,140 to call that AI fine, call it AI. But when I when I tried to 545 00:36:04,410 --> 00:36:08,640 fix some audio, like, oh, I'll just throw it in the Adobe 546 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,600 thing. Now by go back to filtering and doing because it 547 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,100 can't do it doesn't give me the predictable results. And learn 548 00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:21,510 the art. It's an art. Yeah, I mean, if you don't want to learn 549 00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:25,320 how to do images, you could create it with some words and a 550 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,520 generator is great, but I see it. Now. It's it's not really 551 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,760 fooling me. It's like, okay, it kind of looks what it is. And 552 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,480 you all look like you came from the same school of arts, or 553 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,320 Schools of Art. And so learn how to do this. Get an 554 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,930 apprenticeship with somebody who say, Can I can I want you to do 555 00:36:42,930 --> 00:36:44,820 this? Can I can I see how you do it? 556 00:36:45,450 --> 00:36:47,850 Dave Jones: I would you plug in you plug in a bunch of prompts 557 00:36:47,850 --> 00:36:52,920 to plug in a bunch of wording to stable diffusion or what's the 558 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,550 other thing the other? The other big image generator? Dolly? 559 00:36:57,030 --> 00:37:00,720 Yeah, you plug in a bunch of stuff to that. And it gives you 560 00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:04,860 something crazy that you didn't expect. And in the AI advocates, 561 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,010 the will they'll just say well, your your prompts weren't right. 562 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,310 But go to he didn't You didn't we didn't word it correctly, 563 00:37:11,310 --> 00:37:14,700 because your incantation was right. You said one of your he 564 00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:17,340 said one of your words wrong. Yeah, go 565 00:37:17,340 --> 00:37:21,870 Adam Curry: back. Go to the no agenda, art generator.com Go 566 00:37:21,870 --> 00:37:25,350 back 20 pages. And you'll see when these things came into 567 00:37:25,350 --> 00:37:30,930 play. And guess we choose some of them. But in general, the art 568 00:37:30,930 --> 00:37:34,830 has gone downhill. Because it's all kind of the same thing kind 569 00:37:34,830 --> 00:37:40,020 of as the same look of the true artists. Hopefully they come 570 00:37:40,020 --> 00:37:42,450 through the I think they're even discouraged from time to time. 571 00:37:43,050 --> 00:37:46,170 Don't even upload any more because you know, this AI stuff 572 00:37:46,170 --> 00:37:50,280 and everyone's faster than I am. And you know, so it's it's 573 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,850 reductive. It's it's reductive in my world. Journey. 574 00:37:53,850 --> 00:37:55,590 Dave Jones: That's what I was thinking that in the journey 575 00:37:55,590 --> 00:37:57,900 stuff looks identical. Charts 576 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,800 Adam Curry: and Rancors are bull crap. This is not the world of 577 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,980 tomorrow. It's not even the world of today. It's a dying 578 00:38:04,980 --> 00:38:09,990 world, that it doesn't matter anymore. Joe Rogan biggest 579 00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:16,260 podcaster in the world, he's 5% of everything, and 5% and you 580 00:38:16,260 --> 00:38:20,640 don't need to be number one anymore. We're our little 581 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,330 project here surviving just perfectly on a couple 1000 582 00:38:24,330 --> 00:38:28,380 people who support it. We don't need to be number one of iTunes. 583 00:38:28,380 --> 00:38:31,410 We don't need iTunes promotion. We don't need to be. We have the 584 00:38:31,410 --> 00:38:35,460 worst searchable name in the universe. Podcasting. They point 585 00:38:35,460 --> 00:38:39,420 out whoever whoever came up with that stupidity, you can see oh, 586 00:38:39,420 --> 00:38:48,030 it's stupid. Now, dai dai, the inserted advertising, go ahead. 587 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:51,060 This a race to the bottom. Yeah, this is that's radio 588 00:38:51,060 --> 00:38:55,110 suffocation. But you know what it is, is bad for podcasting is 589 00:38:55,110 --> 00:38:58,890 bad because people see their apps as the platform, and 590 00:38:58,890 --> 00:39:02,970 they're blaming the apps. They're blaming the apps for the 591 00:39:02,970 --> 00:39:06,180 ads that you're putting into your podcast as a pre roll. 592 00:39:06,810 --> 00:39:12,150 Discovery is bullcrap. That's not how people discover pot. We 593 00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:15,900 don't need algos. And you don't need to be in the YouTube with 594 00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:19,230 the funny little links and everything. If you think that's 595 00:39:19,230 --> 00:39:21,030 how you're going to get discovered and how you'll build 596 00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:23,940 an audience of people that are interested in your topic. You're 597 00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:29,070 fooling yourself. You don't need that. Those proclaiming YouTube 598 00:39:29,070 --> 00:39:34,650 is the way in the future are Satan's helpers. I mean, this 599 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:39,180 view are you are really it's bad. You're a podcaster you have 600 00:39:39,180 --> 00:39:43,710 a feed. That's your source of truth. That is you under your 601 00:39:43,710 --> 00:39:49,140 control. We have an entire ecosystem over 20 years. Your 602 00:39:49,140 --> 00:39:54,270 children aren't even that old 20 years, the who have built this 603 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:59,250 ecosystem for you to use very cost efficiently. God bless 604 00:39:59,250 --> 00:40:02,850 those who have Created podcast companies and the new ones who 605 00:40:02,850 --> 00:40:06,540 are coming in who are 2.0 native. And the ones who are 606 00:40:06,540 --> 00:40:10,020 catching up. God bless you all, because you have created you 607 00:40:10,020 --> 00:40:15,450 truly have created the the tools that we need. And you continue 608 00:40:15,450 --> 00:40:19,350 to retool over and over again, it's not easy this stuff now, 609 00:40:19,740 --> 00:40:23,610 can the beauty of podcasting and your feed is you can host it on 610 00:40:23,610 --> 00:40:26,700 your own little server somewhere. You can write it with 611 00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:30,690 a notepad. That's what makes podcasting great. You can't do 612 00:40:30,690 --> 00:40:34,830 that with YouTube. So when you think that YouTube is taking 613 00:40:34,830 --> 00:40:38,700 your feed and greatest and the YouTube Music app is the best 614 00:40:38,730 --> 00:40:43,860 podcast app out there, you are Satan's helper. Go away. Potty 615 00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:48,000 Dave Jones: Kevin, we have an actual satanist who donates to 616 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:55,140 the show we could add, probably concur. Was that? The Trevor guy 617 00:40:55,140 --> 00:40:57,510 from Australia? Oh, is this five bucks a month? Oh, thank 618 00:40:57,510 --> 00:40:58,770 Adam Curry: you. Thank you say yes. 619 00:41:00,150 --> 00:41:03,480 Dave Jones: Let us know if Satan is in is in favor of giving RSS 620 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,410 to Google and YouTube. 621 00:41:04,590 --> 00:41:07,920 Adam Curry: So here's what no one talks about. Is the 622 00:41:07,950 --> 00:41:12,960 interactivity. This is this is where podcasting differentiates 623 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:19,650 from radio, we, we have tools, we have ways to let the audience 624 00:41:19,650 --> 00:41:24,090 be a part of the programming. And quite honestly, you need to 625 00:41:24,090 --> 00:41:27,750 do that. The reason why radio is so expensive is because you 626 00:41:27,750 --> 00:41:30,480 can't just have everybody producing, it doesn't work that 627 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,320 way that IT systems not set up. But if you want people to create 628 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,250 artwork for you, if you want people to create the sound 629 00:41:38,250 --> 00:41:42,060 things for you, if they want them to create chapters, or even 630 00:41:42,060 --> 00:41:45,390 just boosted grams, that's being an integral part of the 631 00:41:45,390 --> 00:41:48,480 programming. That is what the value for value model has shown. 632 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,580 Not non traditional revenue. Now, obviously, I believe in 633 00:41:53,580 --> 00:41:57,090 value for value, because we have two families who for 16 years 634 00:41:57,090 --> 00:41:59,490 have put children through schools, we're happy 635 00:41:59,490 --> 00:42:04,710 individuals, we have nice lives. We have two cars per family, we 636 00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:08,910 have roof over our head. And no matter what the ups and downs, 637 00:42:09,210 --> 00:42:12,990 it's pretty consistent. At the end of the year, we did it 638 00:42:12,990 --> 00:42:17,310 again. We'll do it again. It works. But it's not something 639 00:42:17,310 --> 00:42:19,890 that you start overnight, and I've started building value, 640 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,040 where's my money? How come I can't live on this? It took me 641 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:29,640 years I sold stuff. I ate my airplane. I mean all the I did 642 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,330 everything I could I had to scam around for health insurance. One 643 00:42:33,330 --> 00:42:36,510 of our producers actually gave me health insurance from to fit 644 00:42:36,510 --> 00:42:42,510 to 2015. No, from 2012 to 2015 helped me on his company's 645 00:42:42,510 --> 00:42:47,880 health insurance. You know, this is this is what an interactive 646 00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:51,870 audience does. If you have here's clue, an outstanding 647 00:42:51,870 --> 00:42:55,230 product just because you're there doesn't mean that anyone 648 00:42:55,230 --> 00:43:01,110 cares about you. But But you can start with two people. And then 649 00:43:01,110 --> 00:43:04,110 those two people will tell other people about that's how it 650 00:43:04,110 --> 00:43:08,040 works. Discovery, the way we've thought of traditionally by the 651 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,720 media roundtable people is not applicable. But something that 652 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:17,550 I'm not against advertising, I'm not against selling products. We 653 00:43:17,550 --> 00:43:22,260 have an AI in the NTR category, we obviously have value for 654 00:43:22,260 --> 00:43:26,400 value streaming Satoshis, please, we've overlooked booster 655 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,390 grams had become such a thing even for me. People are now 656 00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:33,690 seeing like, hey, wait a minute, somebody's streaming me 200 SATs 657 00:43:33,690 --> 00:43:37,980 a minute data adds up. That really adds up and is good. 658 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,860 Dave Jones: Yeah, does it does we need to start figuring out we 659 00:43:40,860 --> 00:43:42,630 need to figure out a way to highlight that better on the 660 00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:43,710 show. Well, it's 661 00:43:43,710 --> 00:43:46,440 Adam Curry: also a way for it to be easier for people to see it 662 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,930 and calculate it. You know, that's that's a part of it, 663 00:43:48,930 --> 00:43:52,710 because all stats packages helipad included are kind of 664 00:43:53,010 --> 00:43:56,220 built for just seeing what the booster grams are and you can 665 00:43:56,610 --> 00:44:06,210 output stuff for that. Some, I believe direct response and and 666 00:44:07,170 --> 00:44:12,750 what is it called? Forget the other term. When call to action. 667 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,850 I believe that works. So forget the counting of downloads, no 668 00:44:17,850 --> 00:44:21,900 advertisers gonna care about that and 2024 anymore. They they 669 00:44:21,930 --> 00:44:25,830 are they're onto it. The media buyers are not going to stand in 670 00:44:25,830 --> 00:44:28,560 front of their clients and say, oh, yeah, these people listen to 671 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:32,430 it. Because it's all over the media. Everybody knows anyone 672 00:44:32,430 --> 00:44:35,520 who was who was in on the brand side is gonna say how do you how 673 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,380 do you know they actually listen to it? Can you prove it? They're 674 00:44:37,380 --> 00:44:40,860 gonna they're gonna get in your face about it. Because the other 675 00:44:40,890 --> 00:44:45,810 and even for YouTube and Tiktok this very fuzzy, you know, what 676 00:44:45,810 --> 00:44:48,600 is the view? Well, it's 30 seconds, one minute so it was my 677 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,530 ad listen to I don't know, but if you want to be a podcaster, 678 00:44:52,530 --> 00:44:57,510 who has people support your program? You say listen, this is 679 00:44:57,540 --> 00:45:00,900 this is brought to you by geek vape I want you to pause right 680 00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:04,080 now and click on the picture that you see in your app, it'll 681 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:09,720 take you to Geek vape.com. That's all you need. And we can 682 00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:13,320 do that with chapters, there's a space for a link, there doesn't 683 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:18,840 just have to be a picture only, go back later on, go into the 684 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,380 chapters, and find the picture of the geek vape and click on 685 00:45:22,380 --> 00:45:25,470 it, and then go check it out, see, if you want to buy it, you 686 00:45:25,470 --> 00:45:28,950 can get compensated for the person going there. And you can 687 00:45:28,950 --> 00:45:31,200 get compensated for somebody buying something. 688 00:45:31,890 --> 00:45:33,990 Dave Jones: And I have cloud and you have cloud chapters, the 689 00:45:33,990 --> 00:45:36,240 ability to update in real time without having to touch the 690 00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:37,320 audio, it 691 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,800 Adam Curry: can update later on all if they change the product. 692 00:45:40,830 --> 00:45:44,940 All of that is totally possible. And it's honest. 693 00:45:45,540 --> 00:45:47,760 Dave Jones: It's in the tracking pixels, because you're going to 694 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,440 the site. Yes, response. Yes, 695 00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:52,590 Adam Curry: direct response. So I believe in that that works. 696 00:45:53,010 --> 00:45:57,270 Now I agree when again, now I'm gonna wind up this rap. So 697 00:45:57,270 --> 00:46:02,550 again, YouTube is evil. For Podcasting, it's fine for 698 00:46:02,550 --> 00:46:06,870 whatever it wants to be, stay away from it. We do video just 699 00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:10,290 fine. If you think that that's what you need to do. I don't 700 00:46:10,290 --> 00:46:14,700 believe so. I think I'll and I like Sky's take on that. She 701 00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:18,660 says her heart breaks every little time a little more every 702 00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:22,530 single time someone says that podcasting is YouTube videos or 703 00:46:22,530 --> 00:46:28,680 whatever. We have a couple of really awesome things that are 704 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:34,020 happening right now. Pod rolls, is a great mechanism for your 705 00:46:34,020 --> 00:46:38,310 quote unquote, discovery. We need to surface them. We need to 706 00:46:38,310 --> 00:46:42,660 show these in the podcast apps. I believe booster grams are 707 00:46:42,660 --> 00:46:47,400 another great way. I'm not sure what what the way is or how 708 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,580 we're supposed to do that yet. But I want to I mean, I'm not 709 00:46:50,580 --> 00:46:53,280 developing an app and other people are much, much more 710 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:58,380 creative and smarter than I am. Think about that. And now, what 711 00:46:58,380 --> 00:47:05,970 I saw happen this past week, my socks are blown off. When I saw 712 00:47:05,970 --> 00:47:10,800 that I could search for mo facts with Adam curry. On my own my 713 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:17,310 own I have a secret little mastodon. And up pops the feed 714 00:47:17,340 --> 00:47:22,410 the item mo facts with Adam curry, which has an index ID. 715 00:47:23,010 --> 00:47:26,610 And somehow through the magic of the Federation, which I think 716 00:47:26,610 --> 00:47:29,340 means someone already if if someone hasn't already sought 717 00:47:29,340 --> 00:47:32,100 for it and follow it or something it doesn't. It won't 718 00:47:32,100 --> 00:47:35,760 show up in the fediverse. But once it has it showed up and I 719 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:40,920 could follow it. And you my friend or a wizard. 720 00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:44,310 Dave Jones: You want to get into that you want to go through it. 721 00:47:44,610 --> 00:47:45,600 Yes, please, 722 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,190 Adam Curry: because it's progress this week. 723 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,730 Dave Jones: Let's see. I guess I'll start this by saying if you 724 00:47:53,730 --> 00:47:57,300 want if you want to stressed if you're building anything, 725 00:47:58,380 --> 00:48:01,680 activity, if you're building any sort of activity pub software, 726 00:48:02,730 --> 00:48:08,310 job and you want to stress tested, just make a post and 727 00:48:08,310 --> 00:48:17,040 reference an add an account. So like just make it you know, 728 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,970 account accounts on Mastodon lactase layer, activity, Council 729 00:48:20,970 --> 00:48:26,520 and activity pub or are actors. So I'm just going to use that 730 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:30,810 term, you if you have an account, you are an actor. So my 731 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:37,830 like my actor on the fediverse is Dave at at is at Dave at 732 00:48:37,830 --> 00:48:42,360 podcast, index dot social. So that's my actor, when I interact 733 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,210 with other servers, other accounts, anything else on the 734 00:48:45,210 --> 00:48:49,920 fediverse that's who I am. So if you if you want to stress test 735 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,800 any of your software, just make a reference back to your 736 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:57,810 software as an actor, and you will get that you will get 737 00:48:57,810 --> 00:49:03,570 slaughtered with traffic, like so I made the mistake of of 738 00:49:03,570 --> 00:49:08,280 asking for some beta testers, you know, like, hey, things are 739 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:13,830 working, try to try to follow our show. So the way this is set 740 00:49:13,830 --> 00:49:18,930 up right now is there's a server running this software, the 741 00:49:18,930 --> 00:49:24,270 activity bits, let's just call it the podcast index. Podcasting 742 00:49:24,270 --> 00:49:28,620 to activity pub bridge, let's just call it that. This software 743 00:49:28,620 --> 00:49:32,430 is running on a server called AP activity pub dot podcast. 744 00:49:32,430 --> 00:49:39,330 index.org. So that's the bridge. And basically, the bridge just 745 00:49:39,330 --> 00:49:45,480 converts a podcast into an actor on demand. So if there's a 746 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:50,820 podcast that's never existed, that you want to follow in your 747 00:49:50,820 --> 00:49:54,420 Mastodon or, or your plough Rome or whatever activity pub 748 00:49:54,450 --> 00:49:58,680 software you use, if you want to follow that that that podcast 749 00:49:59,550 --> 00:50:01,800 for now. Now, and this is something we need to discuss. So 750 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,700 we're gonna we'll get into this. For now the way that it works is 751 00:50:06,180 --> 00:50:12,870 you the podcast index ID at a P dot podcast index.org. So our 752 00:50:12,900 --> 00:50:19,800 podcast index ID for this show is 920666. So if you follow at 753 00:50:19,830 --> 00:50:25,950 920666, at AP dot podcast index.org That is the actor, the 754 00:50:25,950 --> 00:50:33,060 activity pub actor for this show. What that means is what's 755 00:50:33,060 --> 00:50:37,320 happening behind the scenes when you do that. You're querying the 756 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,610 activity pub bridge for the actor, it gets the data from the 757 00:50:41,610 --> 00:50:48,780 podcast index, and then hands it back to the bridge. The bridge 758 00:50:48,810 --> 00:50:54,180 then gives it gives back the metadata about the show through 759 00:50:54,180 --> 00:50:58,830 web finger appropriately, and then gives its Act gives its 760 00:50:58,830 --> 00:51:04,770 full actor object back to the requesting server. So your act 761 00:51:04,770 --> 00:51:08,430 your master that your private Mastodon server asked for this, 762 00:51:08,430 --> 00:51:11,850 you asked for our show, or asked for Mofaz, whichever one it was 763 00:51:11,850 --> 00:51:16,560 you're looking for, as remote facts. It gave back the data, 764 00:51:16,590 --> 00:51:20,580 the profile data you said follow. So then your Mastodon 765 00:51:20,580 --> 00:51:26,130 instance sent a request to the bridge to follow. Giving it your 766 00:51:26,130 --> 00:51:35,220 actor ID and your private mastodons shared inbox, URL, 767 00:51:35,310 --> 00:51:39,210 right? So we take that in so that under the covers activity 768 00:51:39,210 --> 00:51:42,990 cloud bridge is using SQLite database. So there's a table in 769 00:51:42,990 --> 00:51:48,030 their followers table here requested a follow. We wrote 770 00:51:49,290 --> 00:51:53,910 that bread bridge sent verified all the data that had all made 771 00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:58,020 sense and was sane, and then sent back an except 772 00:51:58,170 --> 00:52:01,650 acknowledgement, saying yeah, cool. Now you're you're 773 00:52:01,650 --> 00:52:06,120 following now and then inserted a record in the data in the 774 00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:12,120 followers table for that show that you're following your 775 00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:17,340 actor, your actor ID and your shared inbox URL. So now, the 776 00:52:17,340 --> 00:52:23,850 activity pub bridge knows that if a show ever updates, you want 777 00:52:23,850 --> 00:52:27,690 to be notified about it. In the cool one cool thing about 778 00:52:27,690 --> 00:52:31,800 activity Pub is this. This notion of a shared inbox on a 779 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:37,620 server makes the trip lessens the traffic load. So if if 400 780 00:52:37,620 --> 00:52:43,230 people on the podcast index does social Mastodon Follow Follow at 781 00:52:43,230 --> 00:52:50,670 one show we don't have to post for highest in 400 posts every 782 00:52:50,670 --> 00:52:54,570 time the show updates we just send it once to the shared inbox 783 00:52:54,570 --> 00:52:58,680 URL and then podcasting is social sees that sees all the 784 00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:03,180 followers and distributes it accordingly. So it it really is 785 00:53:03,180 --> 00:53:04,530 very traffic efficient. 786 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:10,380 Adam Curry: One One quick note just to put slip in the tab. 787 00:53:11,010 --> 00:53:15,810 When I followed mo fax with Adam curry on my own Mastodon, my 788 00:53:15,810 --> 00:53:18,480 private Mastodon server he brought it up because I'm 789 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:22,800 federated so you know, it knew about it already. Because I had 790 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,290 already someone else already followed it to what it was 791 00:53:25,290 --> 00:53:28,530 before I even follow that on podcasting next out social and 792 00:53:28,530 --> 00:53:31,440 it brings it up but it doesn't bring up at least what it'd be 793 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,740 great if it brought up one episode. It brings 794 00:53:34,740 --> 00:53:38,760 Dave Jones: it Okay, clean. This is a limitation of mastodon. 795 00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:43,740 Okay, because Master is a mastodon. This is where we 796 00:53:43,740 --> 00:53:48,510 talked about a couple of weeks into three weeks ago. inactivity 797 00:53:48,510 --> 00:53:53,880 pub world there is this notion of an outbox, and the outbox is 798 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:59,190 everything you've ever posted. So if you go to the outbox, for 799 00:53:59,190 --> 00:54:04,080 mo fax activity pub on the activity pub bridge, if you go 800 00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,350 to the outbox, you'll see all the previous episodes as posts. 801 00:54:08,190 --> 00:54:15,960 But Mastodon will not show you the outbox of a remote actor. It 802 00:54:15,990 --> 00:54:20,370 will only show you the posts that it has previously they have 803 00:54:20,370 --> 00:54:25,080 previously been sent to the shared inbox URL. So if it 804 00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,650 doesn't have a cached copy of a post from that, doesn't that 805 00:54:28,650 --> 00:54:30,660 show it won't it won't show you here's 806 00:54:30,690 --> 00:54:34,440 Adam Curry: here's a weird question. Got the if i pod 807 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:39,420 pinged mo facts, right now, would that trigger that an 808 00:54:39,420 --> 00:54:42,210 episode updating to the mastodon AP bridge? 809 00:54:43,290 --> 00:54:49,320 Dave Jones: No. So okay, so this the interactions here took took 810 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:52,500 a lot took a lot of time for me to understand because it's not 811 00:54:52,500 --> 00:55:01,770 intuitive. Imagine a clean Hedlund to describe this. Okay, 812 00:55:01,770 --> 00:55:05,430 so imagine that your mastodons your private Mastodon server had 813 00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:11,460 never followed the math demo facts show. Right? Nobody on the 814 00:55:11,460 --> 00:55:13,530 on your server had ever done anything like 815 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,660 Adam Curry: I don't have to imagine it because that's true. 816 00:55:16,890 --> 00:55:23,550 Dave Jones: Okay, all right. The Okay, so what should what 817 00:55:23,550 --> 00:55:29,970 normally happens in that case is you follow it, initially the 818 00:55:29,970 --> 00:55:35,040 profile will be blank. So when you pull it up, your Mastodon 819 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:41,010 server has no previous posts that it knows about, right. And 820 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,550 it will initially show that there's been disabled no show no 821 00:55:44,550 --> 00:55:50,580 previous history, you have follow. And then that puts the 822 00:55:50,580 --> 00:55:54,720 fact that puts the app puts mo facts into the database. Okay? 823 00:55:55,860 --> 00:56:01,650 If nobody has ever followed that show before. Then what happens 824 00:56:01,650 --> 00:56:06,840 is on the next cycle, which is every, every 60 seconds, it will 825 00:56:06,870 --> 00:56:11,400 check the podcast index to see what the current latest episode 826 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:16,920 is. And if it finds one, if it grabs one, it will then post it 827 00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:18,240 as a new post to 828 00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:21,210 Adam Curry: your server. Okay, so an actual new episode has to 829 00:56:21,210 --> 00:56:23,850 come out for that to happen. Right? 830 00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:28,800 Dave Jones: Yeah. And so this and so you'll you will see the 831 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:35,130 next one got in when it when it posts going forward, the next 832 00:56:35,130 --> 00:56:39,870 person on your server who follows that will see any posts 833 00:56:39,870 --> 00:56:44,490 that they have accumulated. So you're now your Macedon server 834 00:56:44,490 --> 00:56:48,150 going forward will begin to get those posts. Then when somebody 835 00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:51,210 goes and looks at the profile profile, they'll see all that 836 00:56:51,210 --> 00:56:53,520 previous stuff. It'll be like a filled in profile. 837 00:56:53,550 --> 00:56:57,630 Adam Curry: Oh, so that will happen? Yes. It 838 00:56:57,630 --> 00:57:01,230 Dave Jones: begins to fill things in as it goes. Ah, yeah, 839 00:57:01,230 --> 00:57:04,110 it's a little it's a little aggravating because the outbox 840 00:57:04,110 --> 00:57:09,420 thing is right there. It could in there are there there are. 841 00:57:09,810 --> 00:57:17,310 There's a big thread on the GitHub issues for Mastodon with 842 00:57:17,310 --> 00:57:21,720 people begging for them to backfill those outbox and 843 00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,680 Adam Curry: yeah, because we never don't you click on the the 844 00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:30,930 way that Mastodon works when you click on the go to what does it 845 00:57:32,100 --> 00:57:37,560 go to this? What does it say here? For older posts from other 846 00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,170 sort of poses, if you want browse more on the original 847 00:57:40,170 --> 00:57:45,540 profile at the bottom, when you click that, it just gives you 848 00:57:47,310 --> 00:57:48,660 like, code. 849 00:57:49,830 --> 00:57:54,300 Dave Jones: Yeah, JSON? Yeah. I don't know if you see this in 850 00:57:54,300 --> 00:58:00,210 ERIC PP, posted a link to the outbox thermofax. And if you if 851 00:58:00,210 --> 00:58:03,450 you go and check that JSON out, what you'll see is all these 852 00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:04,050 these are all the 853 00:58:04,050 --> 00:58:06,990 Adam Curry: previous Yes, yes, yes, yes, I see it. Yeah, it 854 00:58:06,990 --> 00:58:08,130 would be very easy for 855 00:58:08,130 --> 00:58:10,560 Dave Jones: a mastodon server to just look at this and just pull 856 00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:15,840 it and just pull it in, but they don't. So that is what it is the 857 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,720 thing you're talking about where it has, where you click on the 858 00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,560 More, you know, more on this profile. So one thing that 859 00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,590 Mastodon does, I don't know about other activity pub 860 00:58:25,590 --> 00:58:29,640 servers, I think they probably do something similar. But for 861 00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:34,530 sure Mastodon does this is it uses what's called the accept 862 00:58:34,530 --> 00:58:41,250 header in HTTP request. So if I request a, if I request the 863 00:58:41,250 --> 00:58:49,620 actor's URL, so in this case, podcast index dot social, slash, 864 00:58:50,610 --> 00:58:57,570 C slash Dave, slash at Dave, then or user slash ad, Dave, I 865 00:58:57,570 --> 00:59:00,630 can't remember, if I if I request that in the accept 866 00:59:00,630 --> 00:59:05,070 header is set to activity slash JSON as the MIME type, I'm going 867 00:59:05,070 --> 00:59:09,420 to get back my the JSON. If it's set to text HTML, I'm going to 868 00:59:09,420 --> 00:59:14,940 get an HTML a nice, pretty HTML page. Okay. So I don't have the 869 00:59:14,940 --> 00:59:18,960 HTML part of the bridge built. And I'm not sure that I'm even 870 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:23,070 going to because what I think may need to happen is those 871 00:59:23,070 --> 00:59:27,870 requests probably need to get forwarded to the podcast index 872 00:59:28,110 --> 00:59:34,230 website for an HTML request, like if you're wanting the HTML 873 00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,280 of a show, just go it just put an end to end up on the website. 874 00:59:38,340 --> 00:59:42,030 Right? Not in not in a weird other. 875 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:43,980 Adam Curry: I mean, you already have the web you already have 876 00:59:43,980 --> 00:59:47,370 the website in there. I mean, you have I liked the joined I 877 00:59:47,370 --> 00:59:52,980 like that field showing up. So the promo fax it shows Joe in 878 00:59:53,010 --> 00:59:57,390 November 8 2023. Oh, that's just want to join okay. It has the 879 00:59:57,390 --> 01:00:01,590 index page and has the website. Take Then from the, from the 880 01:00:01,590 --> 01:00:04,470 feed and the podcast good. Yeah. 881 01:00:04,470 --> 01:00:07,800 Dave Jones: And that you can put it you can tag put anything in 882 01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,830 here that needs to be in here like, you can stack up. These 883 01:00:10,830 --> 01:00:13,680 are just key value pairs. So if we want to put other stuff in 884 01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:14,790 there we can. So 885 01:00:14,820 --> 01:00:18,480 Adam Curry: what what I love about this, what is so logical 886 01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:25,860 is I will now i will post my feed, update my feed. And then 887 01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:34,170 I'll go to the mastodon and I will boost boost the post of 888 01:00:34,170 --> 01:00:42,720 that episode and use that that URL as my base URL for comments. 889 01:00:43,230 --> 01:00:45,630 For social interact for socially interact. Yes. 890 01:00:45,930 --> 01:00:49,320 Dave Jones: Yeah, for sure. Yep. And, yeah, that you're you're, 891 01:00:49,410 --> 01:00:52,140 you're, you're seeing, you're seeing what I'm thinking. 892 01:00:52,470 --> 01:00:54,600 Adam Curry: Oh, totally. Totally seeing it. 893 01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:00,180 Dave Jones: Okay, so. Yeah. So this is this is working well. 894 01:01:01,740 --> 01:01:05,610 We've worked with Alex to make sure that it was going to did it 895 01:01:05,610 --> 01:01:11,160 was everything was kosher with Pleroma. And so the program is 896 01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,610 working, working as well. If anybody if anybody is using 897 01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:21,480 other software besides Pleroma and Mastodon, check this out for 898 01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,150 me and do and bug reports so that we can get these things 899 01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:29,550 fixed. Most of the problems come down to JSON deserialization 900 01:01:29,550 --> 01:01:30,120 problems. 901 01:01:31,110 --> 01:01:32,790 Adam Curry: Yeah, I hate when that happens. The D 902 01:01:32,790 --> 01:01:35,910 serialization always bites me in the ass. It 903 01:01:35,910 --> 01:01:41,370 Dave Jones: does. It's an ass butter. So everything is 904 01:01:42,450 --> 01:01:46,230 everything is just jaded. activitypub is just pushing JSON 905 01:01:46,230 --> 01:01:49,620 around everywhere and, and the good thing about rust is it has 906 01:01:49,620 --> 01:01:55,140 wonderful JSON deserialization module called SerDe. That is 907 01:01:55,290 --> 01:02:00,480 amazing. And it's good, but you but it is it does take a lot of 908 01:02:00,540 --> 01:02:05,340 fiddling to get these things correct. So we need to just make 909 01:02:05,340 --> 01:02:09,150 sure that all of these things or all these different types of 910 01:02:09,150 --> 01:02:15,120 software or are working are playing nice now. The thing that 911 01:02:16,380 --> 01:02:19,830 the thing that we did I did last night and I was up late last 912 01:02:19,830 --> 01:02:21,810 night till I when I know 913 01:02:21,900 --> 01:02:24,600 Adam Curry: you kept restarting your stream or something's like 914 01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:28,260 a million Dave's going live again. They are still not 915 01:02:28,260 --> 01:02:30,150 sleeping. He's live again. 916 01:02:30,870 --> 01:02:36,450 Dave Jones: I was so close this, this is this is interesting. You 917 01:02:36,450 --> 01:02:41,940 know, we we talked, we went back and forth. A little bit about 918 01:02:41,940 --> 01:02:48,810 this. JB 55 on noster. He's the guy that writes Domus. Yeah. And 919 01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:55,230 he made a post or Serie A lot of lot of posts yesterday about 920 01:02:55,950 --> 01:02:59,910 basically how Domus is, is just bleeding money. And this is 921 01:02:59,910 --> 01:03:04,410 probably the end of the road for 2024 is probably gonna be the 922 01:03:04,410 --> 01:03:08,400 last year for Dominus. At least for his development. Yeah, yeah, 923 01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,980 yeah. Cuz it's just not. It's not financially sustainable. 924 01:03:11,010 --> 01:03:13,800 Adam Curry: I did send him 100,000 Set zap and said, 925 01:03:14,100 --> 01:03:17,940 consider this. Yeah, it was funny. He actually replied. He 926 01:03:17,940 --> 01:03:20,850 said, I love that about no agenda. I'll consider it as 927 01:03:20,850 --> 01:03:22,890 like, Please, man. All right. 928 01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:29,250 Dave Jones: Well, so the the Nasus. See, another post that he 929 01:03:29,250 --> 01:03:34,740 made that was interesting was that noster noster is from what 930 01:03:34,740 --> 01:03:39,780 he said is about 10,000 users. And about 50% of those he 931 01:03:39,780 --> 01:03:42,600 estimates our own dominance. Yeah, I would say that's 932 01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:46,680 probably right. Yes, if Dominus disappears, 50% of nostre 933 01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:49,710 disappears, and many of them probably will not come back. 934 01:03:49,710 --> 01:03:50,880 They'll just Bell back to Twitter. 935 01:03:52,500 --> 01:03:54,000 Adam Curry: You know, what's funny? Sorry to interrupt. 936 01:03:54,150 --> 01:03:54,720 Dave Jones: No good. 937 01:03:54,990 --> 01:03:57,450 Adam Curry: A lot of the development discussion about 938 01:03:58,170 --> 01:04:03,000 noster happens on telegram that tells you something. Yeah, 939 01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:06,120 that's interesting tells you something that is pretty 940 01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:06,450 interesting. 941 01:04:08,460 --> 01:04:10,320 Dave Jones: But then, but the reason I'm the only reason I'm 942 01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:15,870 bringing this up is that last night, I saw him posting that he 943 01:04:15,870 --> 01:04:18,540 was doing a whole bunch of stuff with nostrud DB, like a bunch of 944 01:04:18,540 --> 01:04:20,190 like, low level. Oh, yeah, he's 945 01:04:20,190 --> 01:04:23,460 Adam Curry: building a huge database to circumvent the whole 946 01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:25,290 relay going away issue. 947 01:04:26,220 --> 01:04:29,820 Dave Jones: And so and I was, it was interesting, because you're 948 01:04:29,820 --> 01:04:33,870 like, in the one hand, you post, you know, this software is going 949 01:04:33,870 --> 01:04:38,340 to die. I can't sustain it. But then you you spend hours 950 01:04:38,790 --> 01:04:41,910 building low doing low level coding on this product that's, 951 01:04:42,450 --> 01:04:48,960 this is aimed for the grave. And I think it's because, like, like 952 01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:53,880 me, he's, he's addicted to interrup. Yeah, like, you know, 953 01:04:54,150 --> 01:04:58,800 there's, this is a thing people get addicted to enter up, and 954 01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:05,790 I'm one of those people So if I go back to if I go back to 25 955 01:05:05,790 --> 01:05:10,170 year old Dave is the whole 956 01:05:10,170 --> 01:05:13,290 Adam Curry: we're on a second hold on. If you're gonna if 957 01:05:13,290 --> 01:05:14,730 you're gonna do that let's do it properly. 958 01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:16,560 Dave Jones: Oh Tom machine here we go 959 01:05:19,980 --> 01:05:22,800 Adam Curry: back in time to 24 year old Dave 960 01:05:24,330 --> 01:05:28,740 Dave Jones: 24 year old Dave was messing around was deep into 961 01:05:28,770 --> 01:05:34,650 assembly language and discovering the joy of 962 01:05:34,650 --> 01:05:40,380 networking for the first time in the first time that you are able 963 01:05:40,380 --> 01:05:49,530 to bring up a TCP socket and send a message from one computer 964 01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:55,410 across the land to another computer and have it show up. I 965 01:05:55,410 --> 01:06:01,980 mean like it's orgasmic I cannot explain the joy that you feel 966 01:06:01,980 --> 01:06:05,280 when you see that you've you've got you get this one machine 967 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,560 playing by these rules and you've got another machine 968 01:06:08,220 --> 01:06:12,270 playing by a common set of rules and you send it's like 969 01:06:12,270 --> 01:06:18,030 teleporting you send something in through this side in it pops 970 01:06:18,030 --> 01:06:19,680 out the wormhole on the other side 971 01:06:19,710 --> 01:06:23,220 Adam Curry: that's like booster grams for me yeah same thing 972 01:06:23,220 --> 01:06:26,160 it's like I can do it on this thing and it shows up over there 973 01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,190 been a complete different thing and we didn't even know who we 974 01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:30,000 are where we were 975 01:06:30,900 --> 01:06:36,750 Dave Jones: that that was being addicted to interrup was what 976 01:06:36,750 --> 01:06:45,030 created the internet it's It's why people like Dave Weiner got 977 01:06:45,030 --> 01:06:50,640 so addicted to to internet technology is because it's it's 978 01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:55,770 all it's just all an expression of of interop and it's so much 979 01:06:55,770 --> 01:07:00,000 fun and even if you know that your product is basically doomed 980 01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:06,150 you still you still you're doing it because you're addicted to do 981 01:07:06,150 --> 01:07:08,610 that you're not addicted to the product you're addicted to the 982 01:07:08,610 --> 01:07:14,280 experience of it and the experience of creating it so 983 01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:19,110 like in this was what this is why I was up till at one o'clock 984 01:07:19,110 --> 01:07:22,050 in the morning last night couldn't stop because we were I 985 01:07:22,050 --> 01:07:24,630 was I was so close to getting 986 01:07:25,290 --> 01:07:27,180 Adam Curry: Where are you are you are you back you're back in 987 01:07:27,180 --> 01:07:27,960 the future now 988 01:07:28,110 --> 01:07:29,190 Dave Jones: yes, I've traveled I've 989 01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:39,180 Unknown: read from this day going back to the only America 990 01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:41,940 first 991 01:07:54,900 --> 01:07:56,850 Adam Curry: sorry I didn't expect it to be that I thought 992 01:07:56,850 --> 01:07:58,140 it was a different time machine 993 01:07:59,460 --> 01:08:01,440 Unknown: we're in a weird dimension that we go through 994 01:08:01,500 --> 01:08:03,780 we're in a weird dimension now yeah 995 01:08:03,780 --> 01:08:12,690 Dave Jones: we popped out so yeah, so if I was so close to 996 01:08:12,690 --> 01:08:13,950 getting pod ping working 997 01:08:15,660 --> 01:08:18,720 Adam Curry: I feel you I feel you because 998 01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,690 Dave Jones: what we know obviously what you want the the 999 01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:25,950 new episode posting that was working fine. You haven't you 1000 01:08:25,950 --> 01:08:29,580 posted new episode shows up as opposed on Mastodon or own 1001 01:08:29,580 --> 01:08:35,910 activity pub. No problem. Now it's not complete without live 1002 01:08:35,940 --> 01:08:41,610 right? I mean, if you if your podcast goes live you are the 1003 01:08:41,610 --> 01:08:44,370 one you really want to know about in one place you really 1004 01:08:44,370 --> 01:08:47,190 want to know about it is we want to know about it on your own 1005 01:08:47,190 --> 01:08:54,540 Mastodon of course on social media. So this required work, 1006 01:08:54,780 --> 01:08:59,640 right. The initial so the initial structure this what is 1007 01:09:00,270 --> 01:09:01,290 is working now. 1008 01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:03,960 Adam Curry: I love it. So I mean, you basically build the 1009 01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:07,920 world. You build the world's biggest podcast app. 1010 01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:11,700 Dave Jones: If it's automatic like that, that's pretty fun. 1011 01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:16,980 Yeah. Yeah, it's that's that's pretty funny. So if you if you 1012 01:09:16,980 --> 01:09:22,590 look on see if I can read this if I can to read to this. Yeah, 1013 01:09:22,590 --> 01:09:27,690 I just did. Okay. So on the podcast index dasa, so I just 1014 01:09:27,690 --> 01:09:36,090 reposted what I got when we went live earlier. Okay. And it's. So 1015 01:09:36,420 --> 01:09:39,870 the way it works is it's using for now it's using John 1016 01:09:39,870 --> 01:09:45,840 Spurlock's website, pod ping WebSocket. So, he has a 1017 01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:48,540 WebSocket where he publishes every pod ping event that 1018 01:09:48,540 --> 01:09:55,260 happens as it comes in. So I'm just the the activity pub bridge 1019 01:09:55,260 --> 01:09:59,070 is connecting to his WebSocket and then watching for pod pings. 1020 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:06,810 When the pod pins come through, it looks for looks and sees if 1021 01:10:06,810 --> 01:10:11,550 it if it's got a reason code of live. If there's one that does 1022 01:10:11,550 --> 01:10:15,360 it sees if it, what it does is it takes that URL because 1023 01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:19,860 because bad things is usually URLs, takes that URL does a call 1024 01:10:19,860 --> 01:10:27,870 to the index to the live by a live by Feed URL endpoint. And 1025 01:10:27,870 --> 01:10:31,680 to end checks if the status is live, so 1026 01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:33,150 Adam Curry: what what is this account? 1027 01:10:34,740 --> 01:10:39,690 Dave Jones: So I know it's just add 9200666 at AP dot podcast 1028 01:10:39,690 --> 01:10:40,380 index.org. 1029 01:10:41,490 --> 01:10:45,120 Adam Curry: Oh, our show. Okay. Right. Yeah, I gotcha. 1030 01:10:46,019 --> 01:10:52,469 Dave Jones: And so the what? So if if I if it if it's live, if 1031 01:10:52,469 --> 01:10:55,259 it's got a live show that's going on right now, in relation 1032 01:10:55,259 --> 01:11:04,319 to the pod ping that is saw, it then sends out a new post, from 1033 01:11:04,319 --> 01:11:09,029 that account, to all its to all the followers saying, you know, 1034 01:11:09,449 --> 01:11:15,839 podcasting 2.0 Episode 161 is live now. And aniline to listen 1035 01:11:15,839 --> 01:11:21,929 to the live stream, at with album art. So that's, that's we 1036 01:11:21,929 --> 01:11:26,309 got that working. Got that working finally, this morning, a 1037 01:11:26,309 --> 01:11:30,179 little before, before I went to the office. And then Alex helped 1038 01:11:30,179 --> 01:11:35,459 me double check that the media attachments were working for the 1039 01:11:35,459 --> 01:11:38,879 album art. So then. So that's all working now. So basically, 1040 01:11:39,269 --> 01:11:44,639 the basics of the activity pub bridge are functional. It will 1041 01:11:44,639 --> 01:11:48,989 post new episodes, and it will post when, when for when it goes 1042 01:11:48,989 --> 01:11:50,999 live. Yes. So 1043 01:11:51,690 --> 01:11:53,790 Adam Curry: as I said, you just built the world's biggest 1044 01:11:54,270 --> 01:11:55,320 podcast app. 1045 01:11:56,610 --> 01:12:00,870 Dave Jones: He really did. Yeah, it's it's funny. It's like a 1046 01:12:00,870 --> 01:12:04,980 bunch of pieces. It's like a skeleton of an app. This 1047 01:12:05,970 --> 01:12:09,270 Adam Curry: Mastodon is an app. But now anybody can create an 1048 01:12:09,270 --> 01:12:16,170 app. And use activity pub, if I'm just following along here, 1049 01:12:16,740 --> 01:12:21,240 as as their connection to the index, thus, the hence the Fed 1050 01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:23,790 ification of the index. So you're not hitting our API 1051 01:12:23,790 --> 01:12:28,080 directly. But you're getting the same data for shows that are 1052 01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:30,270 subscribed to. Right. 1053 01:12:31,230 --> 01:12:34,320 Dave Jones: Right, you can say that it's kind of like, it's 1054 01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:37,290 kind of like pod paying in the sense that it becomes if you 1055 01:12:37,290 --> 01:12:42,210 follow shows this way. And this apps can follow shows as well as 1056 01:12:42,210 --> 01:12:45,780 people like if you follow shows in this way, it becomes push 1057 01:12:45,780 --> 01:12:47,250 instead of pool. Right? But 1058 01:12:47,250 --> 01:12:50,640 Adam Curry: pod pod ping and RSS feed are all published side. 1059 01:12:52,710 --> 01:12:53,460 Dave Jones: Right? Yes, 1060 01:12:53,490 --> 01:12:55,830 Adam Curry: I mean, that's, that's that's all I mean, and of 1061 01:12:55,830 --> 01:13:01,380 course, anybody can circumvent the index by using pod ping. At 1062 01:13:01,380 --> 01:13:07,110 least for those shows that you don't have to pull. But it makes 1063 01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:11,970 man my head is is like I almost want to open up a whole new 1064 01:13:11,970 --> 01:13:17,160 Mastodon private Mastodon, just for podcast now. Well, we didn't 1065 01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:19,770 hashtag it needs to have we need a hashtag to flow along with 1066 01:13:19,770 --> 01:13:23,430 this. So Oh, yes. Cool. So I can filter Yeah. 1067 01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:26,400 Dave Jones: What is the hashtag neat there. We've got the we've 1068 01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:29,040 got some some things to talk about. What what is the hashtag 1069 01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:29,550 need to be? 1070 01:13:31,410 --> 01:13:34,110 Adam Curry: Podcast? Hashtag podcast index? 1071 01:13:36,210 --> 01:13:37,200 Dave Jones: Well, maybe 1072 01:13:38,550 --> 01:13:41,490 Adam Curry: podcast bridge hashtag podcast bridge. 1073 01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:44,880 Dave Jones: Okay, that could work. We can always change it 1074 01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,820 later. If we've done it with someone else. Let me see if 1075 01:13:48,330 --> 01:13:51,930 that's something you can filter on. Yeah. 1076 01:13:52,980 --> 01:13:55,650 Adam Curry: Yeah, well, it's not being used that I can see off 1077 01:13:55,650 --> 01:13:58,290 course. Stuff that I've got. 1078 01:13:59,550 --> 01:14:03,810 Dave Jones: Well, so one of the things that I want to do and I 1079 01:14:03,810 --> 01:14:08,850 want your you know, I want you to give me your advice here is 1080 01:14:08,850 --> 01:14:16,110 that so right now, it just gives a link to the episode in which 1081 01:14:16,110 --> 01:14:21,990 is fine, but, you know, clearly, I feel like it needs to have 1082 01:14:21,990 --> 01:14:27,810 links to to the apps Yeah, it needs to have links to like me 1083 01:14:27,810 --> 01:14:32,640 know, pod verse podcast guru. You know, found fountain native 1084 01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:36,990 links. Yeah, native native links. So that's because people 1085 01:14:36,990 --> 01:14:37,320 don't 1086 01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:43,440 Adam Curry: we need shows Chiclets, Chiclets. What Sure. 1087 01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:46,650 Dave Jones: I mean, I think that needs to be on there because, 1088 01:14:46,770 --> 01:14:50,190 like, it's, if you're in a pinch, and you have to listen to 1089 01:14:50,190 --> 01:14:52,230 it, because all it's going to do right now is is gonna 1090 01:14:53,550 --> 01:14:57,060 Adam Curry: open up an mp3 file in a web browser. Sure. 1091 01:14:57,120 --> 01:14:58,920 Dave Jones: And that's kind of lame. I mean, like, No, you 1092 01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,980 don't you don't be You're going to lose that position. And it's 1093 01:15:01,980 --> 01:15:03,600 just not a good experience that something, 1094 01:15:03,690 --> 01:15:05,970 Adam Curry: this is something that you could set or configure 1095 01:15:05,970 --> 01:15:11,640 yourself so that it has those links that you want. I'm not 1096 01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,670 sure I'm just shooting around. I'm not sure if that's possible. 1097 01:15:15,630 --> 01:15:18,540 Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, I think it would be, I think it would be 1098 01:15:18,540 --> 01:15:21,840 possible via the interaction to get that set up would be a 1099 01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:24,930 little awkward. You'd have to interact with it as some sort of 1100 01:15:24,930 --> 01:15:28,800 bot, you know, where you send it, you know, hey, here's what I 1101 01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:33,660 want. And it's sort of records that in some way. I think it 1102 01:15:33,660 --> 01:15:38,310 would probably over time, we could figure that out. But I 1103 01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:44,070 guess I would ask that the app developers, send us the dog send 1104 01:15:44,070 --> 01:15:48,570 me documentation on how you generate your links. One 1105 01:15:48,570 --> 01:15:52,020 Adam Curry: other thing I'm just gonna mention real quick. album 1106 01:15:52,020 --> 01:15:57,390 art is not changing. For whatever reason, 1107 01:15:58,320 --> 01:15:59,730 Dave Jones: on what, so 1108 01:15:59,730 --> 01:16:04,320 Adam Curry: if you go to no agenda for 1504, but you can 1109 01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:08,910 just search no agenda, it's already in there. They have two 1110 01:16:08,910 --> 01:16:14,190 episodes. 1619 which is the one with Santa Claus with a naughty 1111 01:16:14,190 --> 01:16:18,420 and nice list. And then 1620, which had a different which also 1112 01:16:18,420 --> 01:16:22,770 has the Santa Claus and the the profile image is also still the 1113 01:16:22,770 --> 01:16:28,530 Santa Claus. And it should be a poop emoji with the recycle 1114 01:16:28,530 --> 01:16:29,490 arrows around it. 1115 01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:33,270 Dave Jones: Okay, so that's, let me see what 1116 01:16:33,270 --> 01:16:35,220 Adam Curry: you don't know if that's caching or 1117 01:16:35,820 --> 01:16:40,080 Dave Jones: it probably is. Yeah, the caching Mastodon 1118 01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:43,410 caches the hell out of everything. There, there might 1119 01:16:45,300 --> 01:16:47,820 that's probably I'll probably need to put that on the bug list 1120 01:16:47,820 --> 01:16:50,100 to figure out if there's a way to invalidate the cache and make 1121 01:16:50,100 --> 01:16:54,930 it pull a new one. Okay. Eric, PP says the bridge has the new 1122 01:16:54,930 --> 01:16:56,910 art. So it's it's Mastodon 1123 01:16:56,940 --> 01:16:59,280 Adam Curry: caching, okay, because yeah, I followed it on 1124 01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:02,670 my private server. And even though I don't have a post 1125 01:17:02,670 --> 01:17:05,460 there, because I just subscribed to it. It does have the new art 1126 01:17:05,460 --> 01:17:06,690 as the profile art. 1127 01:17:07,590 --> 01:17:11,220 Dave Jones: Okay, Nathan, Nathan says he has. He has some tricks 1128 01:17:11,220 --> 01:17:16,050 up his sleeve to get to fix that problem. Okay, cool. With 1129 01:17:16,050 --> 01:17:17,670 Portland, he's talking about the lanes. Can I just 1130 01:17:17,670 --> 01:17:19,470 Adam Curry: stop you for a second? Okay. Yeah, sure, 1131 01:17:19,530 --> 01:17:23,790 brother. What a great job you've done here. This is I'm so 1132 01:17:23,790 --> 01:17:29,460 excited by this. I too, am excited by interrupt. Because to 1133 01:17:29,460 --> 01:17:33,240 me, it's broadcasting. And I was like, Oh, look, another huge 1134 01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:37,470 radio just appeared. Look at this massive radio that now 1135 01:17:37,500 --> 01:17:42,180 everybody can follow my shows in. And they'll be notified, 1136 01:17:42,180 --> 01:17:46,620 they can click the alarm bell. It can pop up. There's, there's 1137 01:17:46,620 --> 01:17:52,590 apps for it. I mean, obviously, we have a way to go. But the the 1138 01:17:52,620 --> 01:17:56,040 I mean, even the notification system by itself is cool. And 1139 01:17:56,040 --> 01:18:00,300 the fact that the comments that the comments will show up under 1140 01:18:00,300 --> 01:18:04,980 these posts under the profile. That's sexy. That whole thing is 1141 01:18:04,980 --> 01:18:07,350 sexy. Thank you so much for putting that work in. Man. 1142 01:18:07,350 --> 01:18:11,220 That's great. And thank you to Alex and Spurlock and everybody 1143 01:18:11,220 --> 01:18:11,790 else who helped 1144 01:18:11,790 --> 01:18:15,540 Dave Jones: you. Yeah, that. Oh, thank you. Thank you, first of 1145 01:18:15,540 --> 01:18:21,330 all, and then, you know, think I think this is this is, uh, this 1146 01:18:21,330 --> 01:18:25,440 is the beginning of the end of the bridging thing that we 1147 01:18:25,440 --> 01:18:29,400 talked about. And this is, this is how we begin to decentralize. 1148 01:18:30,030 --> 01:18:37,470 And if, if apps begin to interact, here, I feel like 1149 01:18:37,500 --> 01:18:41,310 okay, so I feel like we need to, we need to exempt we need to 1150 01:18:41,310 --> 01:18:51,480 exemplify what it means to be able to in interop. So API's are 1151 01:18:51,480 --> 01:19:00,930 fine, but bring in a public bridging is activity Pub has 1152 01:19:00,930 --> 01:19:05,910 shown that it's better. I mean, it's it is better. It's, it's 1153 01:19:05,910 --> 01:19:06,420 broad, 1154 01:19:06,420 --> 01:19:10,050 Adam Curry: it's supported. Yes. It's battle tested. It's been 1155 01:19:10,050 --> 01:19:13,980 out there a long time. Luckily, we now know. Thanks to our 1156 01:19:13,980 --> 01:19:19,620 friends over there from the the right wing hackers. We know, we 1157 01:19:19,620 --> 01:19:24,300 know how to go past blocks. You see that article? You sent it to 1158 01:19:24,300 --> 01:19:25,950 me? Yeah. I love that. 1159 01:19:26,430 --> 01:19:28,200 Dave Jones: You just signed it with a different domain. 1160 01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:31,590 Adam Curry: Hilarious. 1161 01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:37,740 Dave Jones: So is this the code I will put live here in the next 1162 01:19:37,740 --> 01:19:41,100 couple of days. And it made me I mean, the public, I will make it 1163 01:19:41,100 --> 01:19:45,570 public in the repo. It's got a it's got a key only thing 1164 01:19:45,570 --> 01:19:48,360 keeping me from do it. Way. The only thing keeping me from doing 1165 01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:52,320 it is I was lazy. And I hard coded the podcast index API 1166 01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:55,650 tokens into the code, but just need to pull that out. Yeah, you 1167 01:19:55,650 --> 01:19:58,140 might want to pull that up. Yeah, pull that out, put it in 1168 01:19:58,140 --> 01:20:01,050 an environment variable and then we'll help I'll open it up and 1169 01:20:01,050 --> 01:20:04,200 people can go nuts. So here's here's the run your own bridge. 1170 01:20:04,230 --> 01:20:07,170 Adam Curry: here's the here's the immediate question I have. 1171 01:20:07,170 --> 01:20:11,940 So right now if I'm searching for a show, let me just I'll do 1172 01:20:12,330 --> 01:20:18,330 D. H unplugged. Home, you do that on the podcast index. Let 1173 01:20:18,330 --> 01:20:24,930 me see th, unplugged. So that doesn't show up. So in order to 1174 01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:33,120 get that I have to know, the index ID in order to add that, 1175 01:20:33,150 --> 01:20:37,020 you know, so it'll be at index ID at AP dot podcasts. 1176 01:20:37,020 --> 01:20:43,260 index.org. Is there? Is there an easier way more is? Do you have 1177 01:20:43,260 --> 01:20:46,950 you already architected in your mind? How do we fix that? How 1178 01:20:46,950 --> 01:20:53,130 can I search and get that ID if no one has followed it? It 1179 01:20:53,130 --> 01:20:55,950 hasn't fed ified? It hasn't flipped around for a bit. So 1180 01:20:55,950 --> 01:20:58,080 that's just it's not in the database anywhere. 1181 01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:01,290 Dave Jones: Yeah, and that's that's the biggest issue right 1182 01:21:01,290 --> 01:21:03,720 now. I haven't figured out Oh, 1183 01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:07,950 Adam Curry: I know. We I know how, okay, you surface a link on 1184 01:21:09,210 --> 01:21:10,290 on the index page. 1185 01:21:11,430 --> 01:21:13,560 Dave Jones: Oh, link to the account of the bridge account. 1186 01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:14,100 Yeah. 1187 01:21:15,450 --> 01:21:17,460 Adam Curry: So I can so I can search for it on podcast 1188 01:21:17,460 --> 01:21:20,850 index.org. And then just click the link and it'll take me where 1189 01:21:20,850 --> 01:21:25,800 it's copy link if I want. But just click the link and it will 1190 01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:29,430 take me to my Mastodon account, supposedly. And I just click 1191 01:21:29,430 --> 01:21:29,880 follow. 1192 01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:33,120 Dave Jones: As I've gone back and forth about this in my head, 1193 01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:41,100 because on the one hand, our shows account is 920666. I mean, 1194 01:21:41,220 --> 01:21:48,150 that's unintelligible nonsense. But on the other hand, if you 1195 01:21:48,150 --> 01:21:53,910 were to come up with some other means of, of naming the actor, 1196 01:21:54,420 --> 01:21:58,680 so let's just say that it was podcasting to podcasting to Oh, 1197 01:21:59,100 --> 01:22:05,010 at a pod dot podcast index.org that okay, that may work for us. 1198 01:22:05,310 --> 01:22:08,340 But what about shows with complex names? I mean, yes, a 1199 01:22:08,340 --> 01:22:11,550 show that like I mean, some of these like Spanish shows from 1200 01:22:11,850 --> 01:22:17,130 from Avox God that I mean, that's a paragraph in the show. 1201 01:22:17,190 --> 01:22:19,620 Adam Curry: Yeah, we're naming the show with with number that 1202 01:22:19,620 --> 01:22:22,230 was number five under the sea and stuff like that. That's no 1203 01:22:22,230 --> 01:22:25,680 good. I don't know how to get make that on my keyboard. Yeah, 1204 01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:25,830 no, 1205 01:22:25,830 --> 01:22:29,100 Dave Jones: I don't I don't have the antsy layout for this or 1206 01:22:29,100 --> 01:22:29,820 whatever this is. 1207 01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:32,520 Adam Curry: Well, it just, you know, 1208 01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:35,910 Dave Jones: I don't I don't know if it matters. 1209 01:22:35,940 --> 01:22:37,710 Adam Curry: I don't think I don't think it matters at all. 1210 01:22:37,710 --> 01:22:42,750 Honestly, I really don't. If you don't even know if you're slash 1211 01:22:42,750 --> 01:22:45,960 Dave were slash user slash Dave because no one thinks of it that 1212 01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:48,960 way. It's just I searched for Dave and I and a pop pops up a 1213 01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:52,950 bunch of Dave's and I click that Dave. Yeah. Now that's 1214 01:22:52,950 --> 01:22:57,750 interesting. If I do what I say when I search not just search 1215 01:22:57,750 --> 01:23:03,390 for no agenda up pops it actually takes a bit Dame 1216 01:23:03,390 --> 01:23:07,290 Jennifer animated no agenda Mike Miller no idea why and then it 1217 01:23:07,290 --> 01:23:12,840 says no agenda. And and if I hover it it says 401504 at apt 1218 01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:17,670 up podcast, they peed a podcast. index.org tells me what's inside 1219 01:23:17,670 --> 01:23:18,240 the can? 1220 01:23:20,220 --> 01:23:24,780 Dave Jones: The label? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's disenchanted. 1221 01:23:25,020 --> 01:23:28,050 Yeah. See what you mean about this? Just? Because the 1222 01:23:28,050 --> 01:23:28,770 invalidate I 1223 01:23:28,770 --> 01:23:31,500 Adam Curry: mean, we all have to Yeah, that's that's one thing. 1224 01:23:31,710 --> 01:23:35,910 But we all have to, I mean, shows will start to populate the 1225 01:23:35,910 --> 01:23:39,990 fediverse as people start to follow them. So we'd love to 1226 01:23:39,990 --> 01:23:43,470 build up my list, just for the experience just to see what it's 1227 01:23:43,470 --> 01:23:48,990 like and how that works in Dave's podcast app. And then, of 1228 01:23:48,990 --> 01:23:52,170 course, of course, I think having links to your favorite 1229 01:23:52,170 --> 01:23:59,370 podcast player is a must. I mean, absolutely. So to and I'm 1230 01:23:59,370 --> 01:24:03,300 pretty sure that for most of those apps, if I'm mobile, and I 1231 01:24:03,300 --> 01:24:08,340 hit it, it will open up the app. Or with the my Android, my 1232 01:24:08,340 --> 01:24:11,670 Android phone knows how to do that. My graphene OS says, oh, 1233 01:24:11,670 --> 01:24:14,010 it's pod verse. Okay, I'll open up the app, it knows how to do 1234 01:24:14,010 --> 01:24:14,400 that. 1235 01:24:15,450 --> 01:24:19,500 Dave Jones: Nathan's Nathan link to a GitHub repo, where he's got 1236 01:24:19,530 --> 01:24:22,170 a bunch of research on how to generate the different podcast 1237 01:24:22,170 --> 01:24:25,980 app links. Oh, cool. So I'll look into that he's gonna email 1238 01:24:25,980 --> 01:24:28,710 that to me. I'll look into that and see if I can't come up with 1239 01:24:28,710 --> 01:24:32,460 a quick way to do that. Right off the bat. And the you know, 1240 01:24:32,460 --> 01:24:37,200 the other thing is if it's video, like if I go if it's a no 1241 01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:39,960 agenda tube show and I and somebody you know, goes live 1242 01:24:40,530 --> 01:24:45,000 with video, then it needs to be able to open up in a way that 1243 01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:51,330 you can see it not just hear it clearly. So that, you know, it's 1244 01:24:52,650 --> 01:24:55,710 I think we're, I think we're the basics of what we're trying to 1245 01:24:55,710 --> 01:24:58,230 do are there there's a few question marks about what the 1246 01:24:58,230 --> 01:25:02,790 ideas need to be like you said, do that The packets index IDs 1247 01:25:02,790 --> 01:25:05,730 are what Nathan centers are the GU IDs, are they? You know, are 1248 01:25:05,730 --> 01:25:09,390 they some munging of the name who do knows? I mean, I think 1249 01:25:09,390 --> 01:25:16,110 all that's probably not that big of a deal. pretty squishy since 1250 01:25:16,110 --> 01:25:19,590 this is a bridge but other people. The other thing is that 1251 01:25:19,620 --> 01:25:22,680 of this as other people can run bridges if they want to, right. 1252 01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:28,350 So all this is this, the basic structure of this, of this code 1253 01:25:28,620 --> 01:25:34,800 is the same old framework that it runs hella pad and pod ping 1254 01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:38,460 dot cloud culture, it's the same. 1255 01:25:38,970 --> 01:25:41,370 Adam Curry: Love it. So that's, you know, there's my next 1256 01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:45,240 there's my next thing is, if I so choose, how do I get my 1257 01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:47,760 booster grams to show up under each episode? 1258 01:25:49,050 --> 01:25:50,910 Dave Jones: Yeah, okay. Well, that's, that's interesting. 1259 01:25:51,330 --> 01:25:51,570 That's, 1260 01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:53,370 Adam Curry: that's another bridge, right? I should be able 1261 01:25:53,370 --> 01:26:00,120 to bridge or my node to the, to an account or somehow forces, 1262 01:26:00,150 --> 01:26:03,660 whether I'm replying or whatever it is, I should be able to put 1263 01:26:03,660 --> 01:26:05,910 that under there. Well, 1264 01:26:06,930 --> 01:26:09,630 Dave Jones: that could be that could be something to put in the 1265 01:26:09,630 --> 01:26:15,210 helipad. It could be something in health. So. Right. So what 1266 01:26:15,210 --> 01:26:20,400 helipad could do is see the DPC the episode Yeah, 1267 01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:22,440 Adam Curry: it knows the account. It knows the episode 1268 01:26:22,620 --> 01:26:26,040 and say, Okay, well, I'm going to post the AP to the activity 1269 01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:32,970 pub. I'm going to post to that episode post these booster 1270 01:26:32,970 --> 01:26:34,560 grams. Yeah. 1271 01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:37,170 Dave Jones: So when so the way Okay, so the structure, that's 1272 01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:41,580 okay, let's talk about that for a second. The structure of a 1273 01:26:41,580 --> 01:26:46,500 status or what you know, as a toot. In Mastodon parlance, it's 1274 01:26:46,500 --> 01:26:53,790 a status in our note in activity pub world that has an ID as well 1275 01:26:53,790 --> 01:26:57,510 and the ID is just a URL that links to what the links directly 1276 01:26:57,510 --> 01:27:02,010 to the post. So as the permalink, the permalink and the 1277 01:27:02,010 --> 01:27:08,220 permalink for these takes the form of the apt up podcast 1278 01:27:08,220 --> 01:27:15,660 index.org/the actor, actors ID as a parameter, and the episodes 1279 01:27:15,690 --> 01:27:20,970 do ID as a parameter, right. So, if the episode good is coming 1280 01:27:20,970 --> 01:27:26,220 through in the T O V. Then helipad should be in other 1281 01:27:26,220 --> 01:27:31,050 software should be able to look at should be able to look at the 1282 01:27:31,440 --> 01:27:40,530 the feed ID in the episode Gu ID and construct what the post your 1283 01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:46,500 post what the post id is and then put in then do a reply in 1284 01:27:46,500 --> 01:27:50,700 reply to what's in inactivity pub parlance is called an in 1285 01:27:50,700 --> 01:27:55,590 reply to property. So you could just post the boost to Graham 1286 01:27:56,700 --> 01:28:04,260 and set that episode ID as the in reply to field and it should 1287 01:28:04,260 --> 01:28:09,360 show up as a reply. Under the thread where Brian post is the 1288 01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:09,720 parents 1289 01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:12,720 Adam Curry: are Eric, Eric p p already posted in the in the 1290 01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:16,020 boardroom. Yep, add a web hook thing to heli pad. Yeah, that's 1291 01:28:16,020 --> 01:28:18,210 the technical term. Exactly. That's what you just said a web 1292 01:28:18,210 --> 01:28:23,280 hook thing. To heavy pads. Man. I'm so excited by this. 1293 01:28:24,480 --> 01:28:26,730 Dave Jones: Yes, I think I mean, I think I think we're, I think 1294 01:28:26,730 --> 01:28:27,450 we're cooking here. 1295 01:28:27,570 --> 01:28:31,830 Adam Curry: One one question. So if more people run bridges, what 1296 01:28:31,830 --> 01:28:34,950 is the what is what is the advantage? 1297 01:28:36,900 --> 01:28:40,710 Dave Jones: And I just fruit The advantage for now is just 1298 01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:42,990 decentralization, you know, 1299 01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:46,680 Adam Curry: it's the same thing. You're, you're running a bridge. 1300 01:28:48,840 --> 01:28:50,010 Well explain to me 1301 01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:53,460 Dave Jones: Tell me what a muddy block is somebody blocks them? 1302 01:28:53,970 --> 01:28:57,900 Right now. moster is the only bridge that bridges activity 1303 01:28:57,900 --> 01:29:02,910 puck to noster. And if somebody blocks that bridge, you're 1304 01:29:02,910 --> 01:29:06,990 toast, you can't get any posts from one side to the other. But 1305 01:29:06,990 --> 01:29:10,050 if there's 15 different bridges, we just flipped to a different 1306 01:29:10,050 --> 01:29:14,640 bridge. So like, there's no there's no way to guarantee it. 1307 01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:18,030 Guarantee that nobody ever blocks any of them. Right? 1308 01:29:18,030 --> 01:29:20,250 Somebody could just be a cat and mouse game and just always be 1309 01:29:20,250 --> 01:29:22,770 blocking bridges. But those people 1310 01:29:22,770 --> 01:29:24,870 Adam Curry: hate all those people hate life who do that if 1311 01:29:24,870 --> 01:29:27,150 they if they will. If you're blocking podcast bridges, you 1312 01:29:27,150 --> 01:29:28,710 hate yourself. What are you doing? 1313 01:29:29,070 --> 01:29:33,990 Dave Jones: Yeah, you're Yes, Satan's helper. Like so if you 1314 01:29:34,290 --> 01:29:38,250 but if you could run your own bridge, and then keep it quiet 1315 01:29:38,250 --> 01:29:41,040 like you run your own private Mastodon, you could run your own 1316 01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:43,890 private bridge if you are so inclined for you and a group of 1317 01:29:43,890 --> 01:29:47,910 people course and you know, so the, it's just having that 1318 01:29:47,910 --> 01:29:54,690 software out there is having a software out there and the 1319 01:29:54,690 --> 01:29:57,600 ability to have multiple bridges. I think just gives a 1320 01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,330 little bit of it makes it it gives us It's 1321 01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:02,850 Adam Curry: so Nathan G asked correctly if there's multiple 1322 01:30:02,850 --> 01:30:06,180 bridges when a user search for mo facts get multiple results, I 1323 01:30:06,180 --> 01:30:09,690 guess the answer is yes. Yeah, for sure. By the end, you just 1324 01:30:09,990 --> 01:30:11,940 you subscribe to the bridge of your choice. 1325 01:30:12,570 --> 01:30:16,770 Dave Jones: It just like if you had just like if I have multiple 1326 01:30:16,770 --> 01:30:20,940 accounts, multiple ad Dave accounts on different yesterday, 1327 01:30:21,570 --> 01:30:22,170 they would show 1328 01:30:22,170 --> 01:30:24,600 Adam Curry: up. So you could always do your search will be mo 1329 01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:30,420 fax, AP, or podcasts index. And we'll probably parse through it 1330 01:30:30,420 --> 01:30:33,360 and find the right one or if I did want my own search, I'll do 1331 01:30:33,480 --> 01:30:36,480 mo fax Adams private bridge. 1332 01:30:37,230 --> 01:30:38,580 Dave Jones: Yeah, okay. Yeah. 1333 01:30:40,140 --> 01:30:41,790 Adam Curry: Yeah, we are cooking. We're cooking with 1334 01:30:41,790 --> 01:30:42,420 propane. 1335 01:30:44,460 --> 01:30:46,380 Unknown: sterno, baby sterno 1336 01:30:46,590 --> 01:30:49,590 Dave Jones: sterno. Is that like the camping thing? Yes. I 1337 01:30:49,590 --> 01:30:50,490 Adam Curry: love sir. No. 1338 01:30:53,280 --> 01:30:55,020 Dave Jones: Alcohol jelly is always turnover. 1339 01:30:55,050 --> 01:30:57,360 Adam Curry: Yeah, you can drink it. It's, then it's called 1340 01:30:57,360 --> 01:31:02,100 Thunderbird. Mad Dog. 20. Right. That's right. 1341 01:31:04,110 --> 01:31:06,540 Dave Jones: Okay, well, I think we're Yeah, I think that's 1342 01:31:06,540 --> 01:31:09,750 pretty much the basics. And wow. So the other the other thing 1343 01:31:09,750 --> 01:31:14,880 that I would like to happen with this, and I'm committing myself 1344 01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:21,630 to do this right now is in the near in the near future in in 1345 01:31:21,630 --> 01:31:26,580 January, at some point in January, I'm going to write a an 1346 01:31:26,580 --> 01:31:33,120 explainer and go through the basics of what the bridge is 1347 01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:38,970 doing. But with the aim of explaining activity pub, to 1348 01:31:38,970 --> 01:31:43,980 podcast developers, because it's actually an extremely simple 1349 01:31:43,980 --> 01:31:50,400 protocol. Like it, when you start when you went, if you get 1350 01:31:50,430 --> 01:31:54,300 started to get started with activity pub, what most people 1351 01:31:54,300 --> 01:31:57,660 do is Google around for the spec. And when you see the spec, 1352 01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:02,490 you're like, Oh, crap, because it's just, it's just a bunch of, 1353 01:32:02,700 --> 01:32:06,450 it just looks like nonsense. And it's like, you know, pages and 1354 01:32:06,450 --> 01:32:12,180 pages and pages of stuff. But if you boil it all down, the basics 1355 01:32:12,180 --> 01:32:18,780 are extremely simple. And really an an activity pub server can 1356 01:32:18,780 --> 01:32:24,300 own. You can write an activity pub server. And with only like, 1357 01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:29,430 three endpoints that deliver JSON that that's all you need. 1358 01:32:29,790 --> 01:32:33,570 So it's actually an extremely simple protocol and very easy to 1359 01:32:33,660 --> 01:32:36,300 to understand conceptually, if somebody explains it to you 1360 01:32:36,300 --> 01:32:38,670 correctly. Now, how I'm going to do that? How 1361 01:32:38,670 --> 01:32:42,660 Adam Curry: do the app devs there's something they even need 1362 01:32:42,660 --> 01:32:45,960 to think about? Is there reasons for them to start looking at 1363 01:32:45,960 --> 01:32:49,170 this? If so, what if not? And 1364 01:32:49,260 --> 01:32:51,300 Dave Jones: I think I think so. Yeah, I think so. Because, 1365 01:32:51,930 --> 01:32:57,210 because activity Pub is the open source. It's now settled, I'm 1366 01:32:57,210 --> 01:33:00,540 gonna say it is settled. Activity, pub is the king of 1367 01:33:00,540 --> 01:33:04,380 open source commenting protocols. And remember, we're 1368 01:33:04,380 --> 01:33:08,940 not on that chat, we're talking about, about, about commenting 1369 01:33:08,940 --> 01:33:14,430 and activity. And it's the it is the is the king of those 1370 01:33:14,430 --> 01:33:20,850 protocols. And it I think it makes a lot of sense for podcast 1371 01:33:20,850 --> 01:33:26,610 apps, to be able to pull in this data, that the data that's 1372 01:33:26,610 --> 01:33:33,600 happening around podcasts that their users listened to, in a 1373 01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:37,650 native way, so that they don't have to depend on sort of like 1374 01:33:37,650 --> 01:33:40,200 web views and all these weird things. So if they, if they 1375 01:33:40,200 --> 01:33:44,070 speak a little bit of activity pub natively, they can do some 1376 01:33:44,070 --> 01:33:48,750 really fun stuff. So I think that's what that's sort of my 1377 01:33:48,750 --> 01:33:53,070 goal with the explainer is to show how is to go through, go 1378 01:33:53,070 --> 01:33:57,960 through my go to the code of the bridge. And then just boil it 1379 01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:01,230 all down to a few simple ideas and share and hopefully get 1380 01:34:01,230 --> 01:34:03,060 arised juices flowing so they can interact. 1381 01:34:03,090 --> 01:34:07,380 Adam Curry: So let me let me let me squeeze your your creative 1382 01:34:07,380 --> 01:34:16,230 fruit. No. You're now Ainsley Costello then there's apps that 1383 01:34:16,230 --> 01:34:22,830 have your music. And how do you use this with activity pub 1384 01:34:22,830 --> 01:34:30,780 slash? Mastodon? How can you use this? Or what do you need extra 1385 01:34:30,780 --> 01:34:35,010 to build your community around your music? 1386 01:34:37,170 --> 01:34:39,840 Dave Jones: I think you have it. I mean, like you This is we 1387 01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:42,750 talked about this before where you had this idea where the 1388 01:34:42,750 --> 01:34:46,560 musicians are like, where do we send people? Like where do 1389 01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:51,060 people go to interact with Yeah, music is posted now. Now the 1390 01:34:51,090 --> 01:34:53,520 music it just it just posts itself. 1391 01:34:54,630 --> 01:34:56,550 Adam Curry: And so really like really you want your own 1392 01:34:56,550 --> 01:35:01,680 Mastodon server for eight bucks a month. Yeah, so you want to 1393 01:35:01,680 --> 01:35:07,020 send people to a mastodon dot Ainslie costello.com Then people 1394 01:35:07,020 --> 01:35:10,710 can you know and you met you have your your songs already 1395 01:35:10,710 --> 01:35:16,620 there right do you have your dog already pre pre loaded followed 1396 01:35:16,620 --> 01:35:20,100 every every followed everything so it all shows up and then you 1397 01:35:20,100 --> 01:35:23,790 show up underneath your song saying oh here's here's how I 1398 01:35:23,790 --> 01:35:27,180 made the song or I mean stuff like that okay okay 1399 01:35:27,210 --> 01:35:29,820 Dave Jones: yes definitely that or or somebody can grab the code 1400 01:35:29,820 --> 01:35:34,350 once I posted and create a music specific bridge Stop 1401 01:35:34,350 --> 01:35:37,230 Adam Curry: it even be not yet the codes not up yet slow down 1402 01:35:37,470 --> 01:35:38,430 slow down slow down 1403 01:35:41,820 --> 01:35:45,600 Dave Jones: yeah we get you music specific bridge wow where 1404 01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:48,870 it's artist focused for summary that who knows. I mean, that's 1405 01:35:48,870 --> 01:35:51,180 the thing is the gig. Yeah, we 1406 01:35:51,180 --> 01:35:53,040 Adam Curry: don't know. We don't know. But we don't know. All the 1407 01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:55,410 possibilities are out there. This is dynamite brother. This 1408 01:35:55,410 --> 01:36:00,600 is so cool. Thanks. This is it makes me excited about Mastodon 1409 01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:01,920 Yeah, 1410 01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:05,220 Dave Jones: Mastodon got boring. Yeah, makes it not boring. Yeah, 1411 01:36:05,250 --> 01:36:05,700 yeah. 1412 01:36:06,540 --> 01:36:08,880 Adam Curry: For bit for a bit here for a bit. Let's thanks 1413 01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:12,900 some people. I gotta get you out on time. We have rove ducks 1414 01:36:12,900 --> 01:36:17,340 here. 2222 from salty crayon. And he says hello boardroom what 1415 01:36:17,340 --> 01:36:21,480 an exciting 2023 was in the podcasting 2.0 universe. I went 1416 01:36:21,480 --> 01:36:25,560 from onboarding I am Texas slim, to creating my own V for V music 1417 01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:29,340 podcast, which is upbeats You gotta listen to it. All. Thanks, 1418 01:36:29,340 --> 01:36:31,680 everyone that is running with scissors that made this all 1419 01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:34,950 possible can't wait to see what we do in 2024. We're at the top 1420 01:36:34,950 --> 01:36:39,840 of the mountain and we're only halfway up. Happy New Year five 1421 01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:47,310 by five in the pipe and go podcast. 17,776 just came in 1422 01:36:47,310 --> 01:36:50,340 from blueberry. That's the pew pew you heard and Ainsley and I 1423 01:36:50,580 --> 01:36:52,980 are going to be reading through all the boosts and zaps from the 1424 01:36:52,980 --> 01:36:57,030 live concerts last week at 7pm Central tonight will be live and 1425 01:36:57,030 --> 01:37:00,240 lit on the BTS feed. I've also started chewing on some 1426 01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:03,750 potential gear for a show in Nashville so far. I've tracked 1427 01:37:03,750 --> 01:37:08,550 down possibly 62 intelligent lighting fixtures. Oh, wow. 1428 01:37:08,550 --> 01:37:14,820 Okay. Oh, I mentioned. So pod fest is coming up. And I believe 1429 01:37:14,820 --> 01:37:18,750 they will be streaming some things live. I have no idea 1430 01:37:18,750 --> 01:37:21,870 who's in charge of what or anything but I would love to 1431 01:37:21,870 --> 01:37:25,440 follow a pod fest feed. And I would I'm not going to go to the 1432 01:37:25,440 --> 01:37:28,800 conference. I would love to follow the I'd love to follow 1433 01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:31,170 that if there's something live and you know, I don't know 1434 01:37:31,170 --> 01:37:33,990 anyone feels like they want to jump in there. But these are the 1435 01:37:33,990 --> 01:37:38,760 types of things that we should be doing for our for our own for 1436 01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:42,690 our own community. And there's 10,000 SATs for music Mama. 1437 01:37:43,440 --> 01:37:44,760 Unknown: Oh, mama. Yes, I 1438 01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:46,710 Adam Curry: think I know who that is. Yeah, angels mom. 1439 01:37:48,780 --> 01:37:51,480 Dave Jones: And Julie Mom's got it go in. 1440 01:37:53,190 --> 01:37:55,830 Adam Curry: That you just made it creepy Dave. Oh, sorry. 1441 01:37:56,190 --> 01:37:58,920 Dave Jones: I meant Stacy's mom's. Okay. Thumbs up. We're 1442 01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:01,170 Adam Curry: talking my language. Yes. I asked the question for 1443 01:38:01,170 --> 01:38:04,980 you specifically music mama. We got circus media. Happy New 1444 01:38:04,980 --> 01:38:09,240 Year. Adam and Dave go podcasting. And we have Dred 1445 01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:14,700 Scott 4567 from Dred Scott. He just says head over there and 1446 01:38:14,700 --> 01:38:24,060 boost boost. And another one from Dred Scott 45678 45,000 I 1447 01:38:24,060 --> 01:38:25,830 think these days most of the 1448 01:38:27,570 --> 01:38:30,540 Unknown: blades on the Impala and 1449 01:38:30,540 --> 01:38:33,660 Adam Curry: let me see if we got anything else. Then I hit the 1450 01:38:33,660 --> 01:38:35,370 delimiter so over to you. 1451 01:38:36,660 --> 01:38:41,700 Dave Jones: Well, first of all the boys that rss.com 1452 01:38:42,630 --> 01:38:45,240 Adam Curry: Send us a night I got a nice email from a nice 1453 01:38:45,270 --> 01:38:46,410 email. The 1454 01:38:46,410 --> 01:38:50,190 Dave Jones: email included a Pay Pal of $2,024 1455 01:38:50,460 --> 01:38:52,350 Adam Curry: Holy crap 1456 01:38:53,400 --> 01:38:57,240 Unknown: Sakala 20 is Blaze Oh on the hem Paula 1457 01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:08,910 Adam Curry: it works better I can't do it that well. Anyway, 1458 01:39:08,910 --> 01:39:12,450 thank you. So that's that's a New Year's boost a New Year's 1459 01:39:12,450 --> 01:39:13,710 baller boost 1460 01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:17,250 Unknown: Are you record I am we can we can we go and get ya 1461 01:39:17,250 --> 01:39:18,960 boost. Boost boost. 1462 01:39:18,990 --> 01:39:23,490 Adam Curry: Thank you so much. Wow, guys, thank you. Note 1463 01:39:23,490 --> 01:39:25,620 Dave Jones: from Ben over there. He says hey, admin, Dave, we 1464 01:39:25,620 --> 01:39:28,290 want to wish you and all contributors have time, talent 1465 01:39:28,290 --> 01:39:32,100 and treasure. A very happy, successful and productive 2024 1466 01:39:32,460 --> 01:39:35,190 We're so excited for the future of podcasting is see so much 1467 01:39:35,190 --> 01:39:38,730 more to come over the horizon. Your friends@rss.com 1468 01:39:39,840 --> 01:39:42,390 Adam Curry: Thank you friends@rss.com. You guys are 1469 01:39:42,390 --> 01:39:48,570 great. I appreciate that so much. There it is. As I said, We 1470 01:39:48,570 --> 01:39:51,660 exist the whole thing is because of the decentralized nature of 1471 01:39:51,660 --> 01:39:55,860 the podcast hosting companies. That's your ecosystem. Again, 1472 01:39:55,890 --> 01:39:58,860 YouTube is evil. Yes, 1473 01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:02,940 Dave Jones: Satan's helper. We have We have booster grand. That 1474 01:40:02,940 --> 01:40:06,390 was our only pay pal. And it was a nice one. Thank you guys and 1475 01:40:06,390 --> 01:40:10,770 we have boost though. We have chyron for one to eight. Do the 1476 01:40:10,770 --> 01:40:14,070 podcast index, he says, listening to podcasts and 2.0 1477 01:40:14,070 --> 01:40:16,800 I've always felt like a security guard tuning into the boardroom 1478 01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:20,100 the next day on grainy black and white security cameras. What 1479 01:40:20,100 --> 01:40:23,610 shenanigans did they get up to the day before? Oh, Adam has 1480 01:40:23,610 --> 01:40:26,820 some as broken someone's app. And Dave must be sick because 1481 01:40:26,820 --> 01:40:30,180 everyone is keeping their distance was an absolute 1482 01:40:30,180 --> 01:40:33,750 pleasure to get the experience firsthand. Essential one of that 1483 01:40:33,810 --> 01:40:35,730 Merry Christmas to all and 1484 01:40:35,730 --> 01:40:38,400 Adam Curry: to all good night. Thank you. Kira. And we had a 1485 01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:40,830 good time. That was a fun episode. I like that it was it 1486 01:40:40,830 --> 01:40:44,280 was great to have you on and great to get your take was was 1487 01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:44,940 really nice. 1488 01:40:45,900 --> 01:40:49,050 Dave Jones: Sir Brian of London 101948 baller boost. 1489 01:40:49,830 --> 01:40:53,460 Unknown: Hello Bala Sakala 20 is 1490 01:40:53,460 --> 01:40:55,950 blades on the Impala 1491 01:40:56,400 --> 01:40:58,980 Dave Jones: through cast Matic he says Merry Christmas boost. 1492 01:40:59,010 --> 01:41:03,810 He's a Christmas Jew and wishing for a peaceful New Year of 2024 1493 01:41:03,810 --> 01:41:06,450 for the whole podcast in Tupelo family even when I mentioned 1494 01:41:06,450 --> 01:41:11,070 hive runs pod ping on noster that we find where you're 1495 01:41:11,070 --> 01:41:13,830 getting your gang tackled on the 1496 01:41:13,830 --> 01:41:16,260 Adam Curry: only the only guy where I'd say I hope you have no 1497 01:41:16,260 --> 01:41:17,880 fireworks on New Years. 1498 01:41:18,330 --> 01:41:21,300 Dave Jones: Amen to that. Yeah. Thanks, Brian. Appreciate you 1499 01:41:21,300 --> 01:41:25,620 buddy. Bad career advice. Chad satchel Richards 1111. He says 1500 01:41:25,860 --> 01:41:28,680 regarding social comments, this was an interesting conversation. 1501 01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:31,650 But it sounds like what was settled on was YouTube super 1502 01:41:31,650 --> 01:41:35,580 chats with SATs, but decentralized and no requirement 1503 01:41:35,580 --> 01:41:39,000 for a money transfer license. I think there is a recency bias on 1504 01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:43,140 the part of Adam with his growing tired tiredness of NAS 1505 01:41:43,440 --> 01:41:48,840 and social media in general. The problem was you get See, the 1506 01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:51,750 problem you get is when people want their interaction to be 1507 01:41:51,750 --> 01:41:56,040 stored as I was here in motion. I think there needs to be a 1508 01:41:56,040 --> 01:41:59,640 balance drive between user interface and user experience 1509 01:41:59,640 --> 01:42:01,560 and pod father sage vision. 1510 01:42:02,730 --> 01:42:09,390 Adam Curry: Absolutely. And let me just quantify that. So it's 1511 01:42:10,050 --> 01:42:13,470 no agenda social is just as gotten boring for me because 1512 01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:18,060 it's just like this game to troll me. And so when I go 1513 01:42:18,060 --> 01:42:21,510 there, it's not fun. It's like yeah, I can obviously a very 1514 01:42:21,510 --> 01:42:24,270 thick skin but it's like I'm not going if I want to see 1515 01:42:24,270 --> 01:42:27,960 interesting art I'm so I find myself going to the the live 1516 01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:30,840 server button more than anything just to see what other people 1517 01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:33,420 are posting, but I won't interact because if I interact, 1518 01:42:33,540 --> 01:42:37,380 then someone's gonna say something. And I'm okay with 1519 01:42:37,380 --> 01:42:41,430 trolling. But I like trolling in a chat room. And I want people 1520 01:42:41,430 --> 01:42:45,510 to troll as hard as they can against me. Because I go, it's 1521 01:42:45,510 --> 01:42:48,150 like there's only 20 lines and it scrolls off and I don't see 1522 01:42:48,150 --> 01:42:50,940 it anymore. And it's gone. So it can't hurt me. It can't come 1523 01:42:50,940 --> 01:42:54,540 back. It's like okay, you said something funny. It's and I can 1524 01:42:54,540 --> 01:42:58,950 handle it like that. And it's this the ephemeral versus that 1525 01:42:58,950 --> 01:43:01,380 it's there forever waiting for me to show up. 1526 01:43:02,490 --> 01:43:06,210 Dave Jones: Yeah. Versus the slow motion train wreck troll 1527 01:43:06,210 --> 01:43:09,720 that happens in a in a mastodon chat. Yeah, see? Yeah, 1528 01:43:09,780 --> 01:43:12,870 Adam Curry: that's all and of course, once I brought it up 1529 01:43:12,870 --> 01:43:17,130 now, you know, that was the cardinal mistake. Oh, now we're 1530 01:43:17,130 --> 01:43:21,630 gonna troll them all the time. He hates memes. Look, I've 1531 01:43:21,630 --> 01:43:24,720 created Adam curry meme account, Hagner tag you and every meme I 1532 01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:28,170 send. That's fun, and I don't want to be blocked and all the 1533 01:43:28,170 --> 01:43:30,870 time. You know, it's like, sometimes things are funny, but 1534 01:43:30,870 --> 01:43:35,280 people that's just the nature of this human nature. So, but to go 1535 01:43:35,280 --> 01:43:39,630 to an Ainsley Costello account where you know, there's people 1536 01:43:39,630 --> 01:43:44,070 talking about her music. Yeah. Yeah, I think that would be 1537 01:43:44,100 --> 01:43:45,000 that'd be great. 1538 01:43:47,070 --> 01:43:51,780 Dave Jones: That's this is a basically. Mastodon or any 1539 01:43:51,780 --> 01:43:55,530 social media. It's it's your mom. It's your parents house 1540 01:43:55,530 --> 01:43:56,640 when your parents are gone. 1541 01:43:56,940 --> 01:44:00,690 Adam Curry: Yeah, basically. Yes, exactly. I mean, so and I 1542 01:44:00,690 --> 01:44:05,220 would expect Ainsley to have her own Mastodon server, and if she 1543 01:44:05,220 --> 01:44:08,580 feels like there's someone out of control, she can take action. 1544 01:44:09,150 --> 01:44:11,460 Yeah, yeah, whatever she needs to do. 1545 01:44:12,930 --> 01:44:15,210 Dave Jones: Bad career advice chatter again. 1111 through 1546 01:44:15,210 --> 01:44:17,550 fountain he says regarding Karen's view of booster grams. 1547 01:44:17,790 --> 01:44:19,950 That is certainly one experience. The problem is that 1548 01:44:19,950 --> 01:44:23,280 you don't want to project your thoughts on how podcasts should 1549 01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:26,400 be experienced. Karen washes dishes never looked at the 1550 01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:29,400 player. Bet career advice Chad for the sake of this example 1551 01:44:29,400 --> 01:44:31,980 likes to burn his retinas with blue light staring at the same 1552 01:44:31,980 --> 01:44:35,100 podcast art. Both experiences should be a common as should be 1553 01:44:35,100 --> 01:44:38,460 accommodated. Else podcasting 2.0 takes the same tack as 1554 01:44:38,460 --> 01:44:40,560 noster and dictates the experience. 1555 01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:44,580 Adam Curry: You can argue with Ken No argument of course, of 1556 01:44:44,580 --> 01:44:45,060 course. 1557 01:44:46,380 --> 01:44:48,630 Dave Jones: Bad career advice jab me he's burning up the 1558 01:44:48,630 --> 01:44:52,110 airwaves, a 1111. He says that developers should be creating 1559 01:44:52,110 --> 01:44:55,290 the experience that they think their customers would like the 1560 01:44:55,290 --> 01:44:59,490 most popular will economically dominate podcasting 2.0 as he's 1561 01:44:59,490 --> 01:45:02,250 composed 2.0 is a protocol should allow developers to be 1562 01:45:02,250 --> 01:45:05,730 able to compete in an open marketplace. It does experience 1563 01:45:05,730 --> 01:45:08,430 it does. It does. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. 1564 01:45:10,469 --> 01:45:13,469 Adam Curry: It does. Of course it does. I mean, yeah. And we've 1565 01:45:13,469 --> 01:45:16,769 seen lots of differentiators between apps I love I use 1566 01:45:16,769 --> 01:45:18,329 multiple apps for that very reason. 1567 01:45:20,400 --> 01:45:26,070 Dave Jones: This Oh, he says a few. A few more. Satchel 1568 01:45:26,070 --> 01:45:30,360 Richards he says, I'm going to drain my wallet 11111 at a time 1569 01:45:30,360 --> 01:45:34,740 shitposting listening to this episode. We saw you both Thank 1570 01:45:34,740 --> 01:45:35,160 you. Thank you. 1571 01:45:35,550 --> 01:45:36,840 Unknown: I saw him to believe me. I 1572 01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:38,700 Adam Curry: got helipad open 24/7 1573 01:45:41,190 --> 01:45:45,540 Dave Jones: see oh music mama 100,000 SATs Whoa. 1574 01:45:47,010 --> 01:45:49,140 Unknown: She be big baller music mom. 1575 01:45:49,860 --> 01:45:53,430 Dave Jones: It Truly Madly Deeply grateful boosting is 1576 01:45:53,430 --> 01:45:56,100 loving. Thank you music mama appreciate you. Thank 1577 01:45:56,100 --> 01:45:59,850 Adam Curry: you. We appreciate you. You You gave your baby girl 1578 01:45:59,850 --> 01:46:05,670 to us to to throw her into the RSS pool works and we gave her 1579 01:46:05,670 --> 01:46:07,290 back better than ever. 1580 01:46:08,040 --> 01:46:10,230 Dave Jones: That career advice chat again with a bachelor's she 1581 01:46:10,230 --> 01:46:14,820 says boosting one more time because Christmas. George 1582 01:46:14,820 --> 01:46:18,660 Orwell's road dogs 2222. He says Merry Christmas. Thank you, 1583 01:46:18,690 --> 01:46:25,050 George Orwell appreciate that. Cole McCormick sent 5492 through 1584 01:46:25,050 --> 01:46:27,900 fountain he says I need to share how I'm running with scissors in 1585 01:46:27,900 --> 01:46:31,710 this moment. I really want to build up the for the cinema. I 1586 01:46:31,710 --> 01:46:34,470 just posted my new little short film magic mushroom fun time. 1587 01:46:34,470 --> 01:46:35,100 Did you see that? 1588 01:46:35,940 --> 01:46:36,480 Adam Curry: Yes. 1589 01:46:36,960 --> 01:46:37,860 Unknown: Oh yes, I 1590 01:46:37,860 --> 01:46:42,330 Adam Curry: did that. Alex sent it to me. I was crazy and I love 1591 01:46:42,330 --> 01:46:46,230 that it just popped open and pod verse played right there. 1592 01:46:48,240 --> 01:46:51,240 Dave Jones: See I posted in my new short film, magic mushroom 1593 01:46:51,240 --> 01:46:55,110 fun time oh no agenda tube and giving my team splits. I was 1594 01:46:55,110 --> 01:46:58,290 heavily inspired by Fantasia. The whole movie is one homeless 1595 01:46:58,290 --> 01:47:02,490 Moses song with me dancing and seeing wild shapes and colors. A 1596 01:47:02,490 --> 01:47:06,480 combined V for V music, AI imaging traditional filmmaking 1597 01:47:06,480 --> 01:47:10,380 techniques and magic mushrooms. This comes from the purest place 1598 01:47:10,380 --> 01:47:13,770 in my heart please check it out if you have seven minutes. We 1599 01:47:13,770 --> 01:47:17,700 Adam Curry: do. Oh Phoebe's Phoebe is Andhra magic 1600 01:47:17,700 --> 01:47:18,330 mushrooms. 1601 01:47:20,070 --> 01:47:24,240 Dave Jones: Attack mode. Let's see CASP eland 3693 found and he 1602 01:47:24,240 --> 01:47:30,270 says no. Wait. No strolling sets. Oh, he 1603 01:47:30,270 --> 01:47:31,950 Adam Curry: must make me scream screaming 1604 01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:36,900 Dave Jones: no streaming sets on. Fountain. He says so many 1605 01:47:36,900 --> 01:47:41,070 typos on fountain one point x. I think I need to update my 1606 01:47:41,070 --> 01:47:45,810 profile. Cast. You're drunk. Yeah, 1607 01:47:46,500 --> 01:47:48,060 Adam Curry: that's right. You're drunk. 1608 01:47:48,090 --> 01:47:49,050 Unknown: That's That's it? 1609 01:47:49,080 --> 01:47:49,920 Adam Curry: You're drunk. Sorry. 1610 01:47:50,490 --> 01:47:54,930 Dave Jones: Forged fo 7777 Happy New Year. Well, Happy New Year. 1611 01:47:54,930 --> 01:48:00,990 Do you forge folk? Jean Benson is 2222 through cast Matic he 1612 01:48:00,990 --> 01:48:03,870 says Dave mark on the Linux matters podcast has been talking 1613 01:48:03,870 --> 01:48:07,080 about fortifying his static blog. And I think he may have 1614 01:48:07,080 --> 01:48:09,180 solved some of the same challenges you're talking about 1615 01:48:09,180 --> 01:48:14,340 here. Here's the show and Mark is any links me to them? Okay. 1616 01:48:14,580 --> 01:48:17,910 Well, thank you. Thanks, Jean. Appreciate that. Yeah, I'll 1617 01:48:17,910 --> 01:48:19,020 follow him on mastodon. 1618 01:48:19,530 --> 01:48:24,390 Adam Curry: A late entry from DS laughs 20,000 SATs love you too, 1619 01:48:24,420 --> 01:48:26,700 even though I don't understand most of the tech. 1620 01:48:30,360 --> 01:48:32,040 Dave Jones: Ernest, Ernest 1621 01:48:32,970 --> 01:48:37,140 Adam Curry: ball he's a V for V music artist. So he's he's here 1622 01:48:37,140 --> 01:48:39,090 for the ride. Yep, in the 1623 01:48:39,090 --> 01:48:41,880 Dave Jones: mushrooms. Comic Strip. Bugger. 10,000 SATs 1624 01:48:41,880 --> 01:48:45,600 through fountain that limiter he says Happy New Year 2020 for 1625 01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:49,380 podcasting 2.0 team but your audio be crisp your content 1626 01:48:49,380 --> 01:48:52,560 engaging in your subscribers multiplying faster than Tribbles 1627 01:48:52,560 --> 01:48:55,920 on the Starship Enterprise? Yo, CSB. Yo 1628 01:48:56,880 --> 01:48:59,100 Adam Curry: he's posting stuff now but he's that he's clearly 1629 01:48:59,100 --> 01:49:04,050 he's I saw him on podcast index dot social. He posted something 1630 01:49:04,050 --> 01:49:07,950 gave a rationale. He was like, this sucks. rationale, colons. 1631 01:49:08,910 --> 01:49:10,680 Now it's all chat GPT output. 1632 01:49:12,390 --> 01:49:14,790 Unknown: Come on, man. We see what's going on. We see what 1633 01:49:14,790 --> 01:49:15,360 you're doing. 1634 01:49:16,140 --> 01:49:18,630 Dave Jones: Every everything CSB says is in the form of a 1635 01:49:18,630 --> 01:49:19,230 syllogism. 1636 01:49:21,360 --> 01:49:23,340 Adam Curry: He's in Georgia, okay. He's important to us. 1637 01:49:23,970 --> 01:49:26,520 Dave Jones: Thank you CSB. He's clearly emerged from his 1638 01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:28,680 hibernation of December hibernate. Yeah. How 1639 01:49:28,680 --> 01:49:32,340 Adam Curry: did the I want to know how your test went? He was 1640 01:49:32,340 --> 01:49:34,830 he was doing a test he had like some big tests he had to study 1641 01:49:34,830 --> 01:49:39,330 for for AI certification or something. Let us know. The 1642 01:49:40,830 --> 01:49:43,350 Dave Jones: month Okay, monthlies, Jordan Dunnville $10 1643 01:49:43,350 --> 01:49:49,650 and dribs got $15. Michael Kimmerer $5.33 Pedro gan calvess 1644 01:49:49,680 --> 01:49:52,050 $5. And that's our group. Beautiful. 1645 01:49:52,050 --> 01:49:55,020 Adam Curry: Thank you all so much for another year in the 1646 01:49:55,020 --> 01:49:59,310 podcasting 2.0 value for value ecosystem, as someone say 1647 01:49:59,340 --> 01:50:03,000 ecosystem It's all value for value, you deliver your time, 1648 01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:06,030 your talent, your treasure, and we keep moving the project 1649 01:50:06,030 --> 01:50:09,090 forward. Thank you all so much for your input. And in this 1650 01:50:09,090 --> 01:50:14,070 case, for your booster Graham's people in the boardroom, and, 1651 01:50:14,520 --> 01:50:17,490 and for the code that you slaying and for the booths that 1652 01:50:17,490 --> 01:50:22,590 you're sending, we have such a great, great, great collection 1653 01:50:22,620 --> 01:50:26,700 of people that have come come to this project, it goes directly 1654 01:50:26,700 --> 01:50:30,030 towards the project. Everything is for the servers, keep 1655 01:50:30,030 --> 01:50:33,270 everything running, we keep all of the stats on the node. If you 1656 01:50:33,270 --> 01:50:35,940 need liquidity, let me know happy to help you out. Go to 1657 01:50:35,940 --> 01:50:39,990 podcast index.org. At the bottom you'll see two red donate 1658 01:50:39,990 --> 01:50:43,890 buttons. One is for your Fiat fun coupons. And as usual, I 1659 01:50:43,890 --> 01:50:47,010 will go one more time to check the other one which is for your 1660 01:50:47,010 --> 01:50:49,920 on chain member of you're going to send all those big Bitcoin to 1661 01:50:49,920 --> 01:50:53,160 us and nothing at all. So thank you for that. But of course, we 1662 01:50:53,160 --> 01:50:57,360 really want you to go to modern podcast apps.com and pick up one 1663 01:50:57,360 --> 01:51:00,630 of the apps that you can send us a boost with stream SATs not 1664 01:51:00,630 --> 01:51:05,760 just us but all of the almost 16,000 podcasts and now also 1665 01:51:05,760 --> 01:51:09,810 artists with songs that are part of the big podcasting 2.0 1666 01:51:09,810 --> 01:51:12,300 experience. Thank you all so much. We really appreciate it. 1667 01:51:14,070 --> 01:51:19,260 Dave Jones: Got you got to get to try out that. That ISO. Do 1668 01:51:19,290 --> 01:51:21,630 they see the asset says yes, that's a good one. 1669 01:51:21,750 --> 01:51:26,550 Adam Curry: Okay. Yes. I'm gonna see you got a couple more. Do 1670 01:51:26,550 --> 01:51:28,140 you mind if I check them all out for a second? 1671 01:51:28,440 --> 01:51:30,900 Unknown: run and run it run? 100% Yeah, 1672 01:51:30,930 --> 01:51:33,030 Adam Curry: I knew you were gonna do that one. Goodbye. 1673 01:51:33,450 --> 01:51:41,550 Goodbye is good. Good. Okay, I think I have a good one for the 1674 01:51:41,550 --> 01:51:45,600 end here. I'm gonna say that. Okay, but there's another one 1675 01:51:45,630 --> 01:51:46,890 that I missed one. You 1676 01:51:46,890 --> 01:51:52,740 Dave Jones: missed one you missed well. Oh, wow. All right. 1677 01:51:53,670 --> 01:51:54,900 Every surfer gun 1678 01:51:54,930 --> 01:51:58,770 Unknown: Wow. Wow. Man. Wow, baby. 1679 01:51:59,340 --> 01:52:03,000 Adam Curry: All right, Dave. Hey, brother. Have yourself a 1680 01:52:03,000 --> 01:52:07,680 great, great new year. We say in Holland in the old country say a 1681 01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:11,730 year change have a great year change sounds sounds better in 1682 01:52:11,730 --> 01:52:12,870 Dutch yard whistling 1683 01:52:13,620 --> 01:52:15,750 Dave Jones: Yes. Sounds more like you're going to the to the 1684 01:52:15,750 --> 01:52:17,460 audit. You know, it's like to get your tires. 1685 01:52:19,350 --> 01:52:22,470 Adam Curry: Have a great year change? Yeah, a year rotation. 1686 01:52:22,470 --> 01:52:25,830 There you go. Man. Thank you. I love you so much, brother. So 1687 01:52:25,830 --> 01:52:30,090 much fun to do this with you. I enjoy my Fridays. I really do. I 1688 01:52:30,090 --> 01:52:32,100 always look forward to Friday, always, 1689 01:52:32,310 --> 01:52:34,500 Dave Jones: always do get excited, especially when there's 1690 01:52:34,500 --> 01:52:36,090 something to share. That's good. Well, 1691 01:52:36,120 --> 01:52:38,220 Adam Curry: great job on this. I can't wait to see where this 1692 01:52:38,220 --> 01:52:41,010 goes. Wherever the whole group takes it. It's up to you guys 1693 01:52:41,010 --> 01:52:44,190 and gals. Happy New Year boardroom. Thank you for being 1694 01:52:44,190 --> 01:52:49,200 here for podcasting. 2.0 Episode 161 We'll be back in 2024 with 1695 01:52:49,200 --> 01:52:52,440 more of your very own podcasting 2.0. 1696 01:53:08,580 --> 01:53:13,170 Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast 1697 01:53:13,170 --> 01:53:17,220 index.org. For more information, go podcast. 1698 01:53:18,420 --> 01:53:20,040 Dave Jones: Wow, it's orgasmic.