1 00:00:00,870 --> 00:00:05,910 Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for January 19 2024, episode 164 2 00:00:06,030 --> 00:00:11,520 Let's get local. Well hello everybody welcome once again to 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:18,510 the official board meeting a 5.0. Except no alternatives. If 4 00:00:18,510 --> 00:00:21,450 you want to know what's going on in podcasting, it's happening 5 00:00:21,450 --> 00:00:24,330 right here. While it's happening here. It's happening in podcast 6 00:00:24,330 --> 00:00:27,120 index.org It's happening on the namespace. It's happening in 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,900 podcasts index dot social, we are the only boardroom that 8 00:00:30,900 --> 00:00:34,560 moves in phases. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,410 Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who builds bridges for 10 00:00:37,410 --> 00:00:40,380 anyone to cross say hello to my friend on the other end the one 11 00:00:40,380 --> 00:00:42,090 and only Mr. Day 12 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,540 you fired up today. Oh, come on. I mean, we have to differentiate 13 00:00:54,540 --> 00:00:57,990 ourselves from all these other podcasts about podcasts. 14 00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:01,800 Dave Jones: Yeah, this starts off, you know. Hey, 15 00:01:01,950 --> 00:01:06,030 Adam Curry: hey, welcome. Welcome your way. Well, how was 16 00:01:06,090 --> 00:01:11,490 How was your week? Exactly? Hey, how was your week? Yeah. Hey, 17 00:01:11,490 --> 00:01:13,830 are you in the podcast Hall of Fame yet? Dave Jones? 18 00:01:14,430 --> 00:01:17,400 Dave Jones: Not yet. You shouldn't be should be. I've got 19 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:18,030 another 10 years 20 00:01:18,210 --> 00:01:20,430 Adam Curry: in the future Hall of Fame. You should you totally 21 00:01:20,430 --> 00:01:21,090 belong there. 22 00:01:21,300 --> 00:01:23,880 Dave Jones: Totally waste says you're not Eric. PP says we're 23 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:24,660 not lit. Oh, 24 00:01:24,660 --> 00:01:27,480 Adam Curry: we're not lit. You know why? Because I didn't hit 25 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:33,600 the lit. Oh, that's why. Sorry about how that works. I was 26 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,660 distracted by all the awesome music and that's what it was 27 00:01:36,660 --> 00:01:37,290 when I second 28 00:01:37,530 --> 00:01:39,810 Dave Jones: your your pet. Your status is still pending. 29 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,780 Adam Curry: I know. I know. I'm a pending full. I'm a pending 30 00:01:42,780 --> 00:01:45,210 fool. Okay. No wonder 31 00:01:45,209 --> 00:01:49,619 Dave Jones: I didn't get I'm sorry, the AP bridge. 32 00:01:50,010 --> 00:01:54,030 Adam Curry: I suck. I suck the cam. Sorry. It should be working 33 00:01:54,030 --> 00:01:55,620 now. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. 34 00:01:55,650 --> 00:01:56,760 Dave Jones: We keep piling on. 35 00:01:57,930 --> 00:02:02,040 Adam Curry: That's the worst. It happens at least once a month. 36 00:02:02,730 --> 00:02:05,970 Once a month is happens. I mean, there's so many things to think 37 00:02:05,970 --> 00:02:11,490 of. No, I gotta connect the split kit. I gotta set the new. 38 00:02:13,290 --> 00:02:16,950 Set the right title on the streaming software. I've got to 39 00:02:16,950 --> 00:02:20,970 make sure I'm not jumping in on people who are just late on the 40 00:02:20,970 --> 00:02:25,380 stream. So many things to think of 41 00:02:25,380 --> 00:02:26,850 Dave Jones: our job. You have a hard job 42 00:02:26,850 --> 00:02:31,200 Adam Curry: and I wouldn't say that's true. At all. It's not 43 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,610 even a job. I've for 16 years. I've not had a job. I just I 44 00:02:35,610 --> 00:02:37,230 just do I have a calling. 45 00:02:38,460 --> 00:02:41,100 Dave Jones: Oh, what is not a hobby? No, 46 00:02:41,310 --> 00:02:43,650 Adam Curry: no, it's a calling. It's a calling. It's a call 47 00:02:43,650 --> 00:02:48,450 Hello boardroom. We are live and lit. Which means everybody is in 48 00:02:48,450 --> 00:02:52,290 the if you're if you're a part of podcasting 2.0 Hopefully you 49 00:02:52,290 --> 00:02:55,140 have an app that to bring you into the boardroom or you know 50 00:02:55,140 --> 00:02:56,670 what we're talking about was 51 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:01,560 Dave Jones: yesterday only sat on a booster. 52 00:03:02,610 --> 00:03:04,530 Adam Curry: Oh, that felt good. 53 00:03:07,290 --> 00:03:12,090 Dave Jones: Let me let me give you give you an update from the 54 00:03:12,750 --> 00:03:16,740 what would you call this the the brave new world? Oh, there we 55 00:03:16,740 --> 00:03:20,880 go. I see. We're okay. The brave new world of what the brave new 56 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:26,160 world of all electric heat. Oh, feels directly in our homes 57 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,140 anymore. Yeah, 58 00:03:28,140 --> 00:03:30,180 Adam Curry: Alex, what is it? I mean, you might as well be 59 00:03:30,180 --> 00:03:32,670 mining Bitcoin, probably. It 60 00:03:32,759 --> 00:03:38,219 Dave Jones: blows chunks. I mean, it is not fun. So, the 61 00:03:38,249 --> 00:03:39,929 Burkman Birmingham, Alabama. 62 00:03:40,170 --> 00:03:43,380 Adam Curry: Now, what did what we had 11 degrees. past couple 63 00:03:43,380 --> 00:03:44,940 of days in Texas. What did you have? 64 00:03:45,630 --> 00:03:52,080 Dave Jones: So rough, roughly the same? We had 13 on Tuesday 65 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:58,800 morning. 13 we had 13 on Tuesday. So silver 15. On 66 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:04,860 Tuesday, we had 13 on Wednesday. Yeah. We get one day of of warm 67 00:04:04,860 --> 00:04:10,740 up. And now tomorrow morning. It's going to be again 15 Yeah, 68 00:04:10,740 --> 00:04:13,590 we get the sun in another morning in the morning after 69 00:04:13,590 --> 00:04:18,630 that is going to be again 15 degrees. So, you know, our our 70 00:04:18,630 --> 00:04:20,520 house is like 130 years old. 71 00:04:21,149 --> 00:04:22,319 Adam Curry: I'm sorry to hear that. 72 00:04:23,670 --> 00:04:26,400 Dave Jones: It's the bones of this house are fantastic. I 73 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,330 mean, like, you know, it I mean, it's every bit the sturdy, you 74 00:04:30,330 --> 00:04:33,180 know, thing that you would think it is? But there's not a lick of 75 00:04:33,180 --> 00:04:38,820 insulation anywhere. And right, right, right. The so we went to 76 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,470 these mini split, like multi head mini split units about five 77 00:04:43,470 --> 00:04:44,550 years ago, multi 78 00:04:44,550 --> 00:04:47,430 Adam Curry: head mini split units. Is that a sex toy? I'm 79 00:04:47,430 --> 00:04:48,120 not sure what that 80 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:52,140 Dave Jones: is. It can be depends on how you use it. What 81 00:04:52,140 --> 00:04:54,690 exactly a little higher off the ground to sit on but I mean, you 82 00:04:54,690 --> 00:04:57,960 could you can make it work if you really want it. Okay, but 83 00:04:57,990 --> 00:05:01,290 So, do you know what is the minimum Blood unit is basically 84 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:06,900 a it's a heat pump, but it has you see these things all over? 85 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,200 Well, they're very popular now. But you see them all over Japan? 86 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:10,770 Well, 87 00:05:10,770 --> 00:05:13,380 Adam Curry: the heat pumps are the are the new climate change 88 00:05:13,380 --> 00:05:14,850 mitigation technology? 89 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,760 Dave Jones: Yeah, yes. Your pure electric, you know, all electric 90 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,320 heat. Yeah. And they 91 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,050 Adam Curry: basically don't work is what I keep hearing. Well, 92 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,960 Dave Jones: you're, so we're good. And because we, the way 93 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,430 this thing works is you have heads in each head and each head 94 00:05:29,430 --> 00:05:33,630 unit in each room. And there's, there's like zones, you know, 95 00:05:33,660 --> 00:05:36,300 right. So you can have different zones be different temperatures 96 00:05:36,300 --> 00:05:40,020 and each, so the four might have four head units attached to one 97 00:05:40,020 --> 00:05:45,690 outside compressor into the compressor outside. And it's a 98 00:05:45,690 --> 00:05:48,480 it's air conditioning during the summer heat during the winter. 99 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,490 And all it does, it's got a thing called a four way 100 00:05:50,490 --> 00:05:54,990 reversing valve. So during the winter, instead of taking the 101 00:05:54,990 --> 00:05:58,350 heat out of your house, it takes the heat out from outside and 102 00:05:58,350 --> 00:06:01,470 dumps it into your house. It's a great, it's a great concept and 103 00:06:01,470 --> 00:06:05,460 it's during the summer, it saves us hundreds of dollars a month, 104 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:11,820 right? The problem is, usually if you think it through, you're 105 00:06:11,820 --> 00:06:16,230 taking the heat from outside so your your inside coil in in a 106 00:06:16,230 --> 00:06:21,180 heat situation, your inside coil in the unit in your house, is 107 00:06:21,180 --> 00:06:26,730 now you know, 140 degrees. Your outside unit is now freezing is 108 00:06:26,730 --> 00:06:31,020 now dumping all the cold out. And so it's going to it's going 109 00:06:31,020 --> 00:06:35,220 to ice up and freeze. So it has to go through a defrost cycle a 110 00:06:35,940 --> 00:06:38,910 couple of times an hour and when that happens ever the whole 111 00:06:38,910 --> 00:06:42,600 thing shuts off. Yeah, it reverses itself back to air 112 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:47,280 conditioning mode to heat the outside coil to melt the ice 113 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,630 then switches itself back to heat mode and begins to function 114 00:06:51,630 --> 00:06:57,060 like a heater again. Yeah, this this is this 10 to 15 minutes of 115 00:06:57,060 --> 00:07:01,380 defrost cycle in an old house with no insulation. Yes, socks 116 00:07:02,010 --> 00:07:05,430 is a killer, especially when you're winning. So if you're 117 00:07:05,430 --> 00:07:10,650 down if you're like, we're good down to like 30 about 30 118 00:07:10,650 --> 00:07:17,910 degrees. It be lower than 30 it starts to drop off. Then if you 119 00:07:17,910 --> 00:07:21,540 get into the teens, you're toast. Yeah, I mean like I hope 120 00:07:21,540 --> 00:07:22,380 they're not toast 121 00:07:22,380 --> 00:07:22,830 Adam Curry: actually, 122 00:07:22,860 --> 00:07:27,600 Dave Jones: you're you're not frozen popsicle. I woke up so 123 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,540 we're in they run all the time constantly. We're running space 124 00:07:30,540 --> 00:07:36,240 heaters. My power bill is like $35 a day right now. Wow. And I 125 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,800 woke up Wednesday and our bedroom was like 48 degrees. You 126 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,950 Adam Curry: know it is you could just be a real man and heat your 127 00:07:43,950 --> 00:07:48,690 house with 17 Terra hash of Bitcoin mining power Yeah, it 128 00:07:48,690 --> 00:07:51,120 Dave Jones: would only cost me $28,000 No. 129 00:07:51,420 --> 00:07:56,100 Adam Curry: Well we have I think we have $9 a kilowatt 99 nine 130 00:07:56,100 --> 00:08:02,550 cents a kilowatt hour. So I have the miners in the garage and the 131 00:08:02,550 --> 00:08:05,250 garage has been okay that mean without it would have been 132 00:08:05,250 --> 00:08:09,630 freezing and so that's how I heat the garage and in the 133 00:08:09,630 --> 00:08:15,330 summer the garage is really warm it's really tasty. But we have a 134 00:08:15,330 --> 00:08:18,720 traditional H vac system and it also does not perform very well 135 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:24,150 under 15 degrees then you have to put in on the fan has to be 136 00:08:24,150 --> 00:08:29,370 on constantly it starts to make this the sound the compressor 137 00:08:29,670 --> 00:08:34,290 makes this weird sound and it's apparently a good brand unit and 138 00:08:34,290 --> 00:08:36,840 I've had the guy overhead I remember last winter I had him 139 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,870 over and he said oh yeah No they just don't work well under 15 140 00:08:39,870 --> 00:08:41,220 degrees so what's the point 141 00:08:42,059 --> 00:08:45,209 Dave Jones: now is yours a gas furnace or is it he pulled its 142 00:08:45,209 --> 00:08:46,769 heat was that with gas backup? 143 00:08:46,980 --> 00:08:54,060 Adam Curry: Yeah well with gas backup yes and we do have a 144 00:08:54,810 --> 00:08:59,130 appropriate well propane not gas we have a propane fireplace so 145 00:08:59,130 --> 00:09:01,650 that heats up the most of the house because it's all open 146 00:09:01,650 --> 00:09:04,650 floor plan that he's the house nice yeah that's okay we only 147 00:09:04,650 --> 00:09:09,600 had one one day where you know we woke up and it was 66 which 148 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,210 is the temperature we have and we sleep and then it went down 149 00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:19,350 to 6360s are going down yeah going back up again. And then 150 00:09:19,350 --> 00:09:19,860 yeah 151 00:09:20,850 --> 00:09:23,910 Dave Jones: going back down into the teens again and this couple 152 00:09:23,910 --> 00:09:27,510 of days and I wake up this morning and the powers going 153 00:09:27,510 --> 00:09:31,560 nuts and lights going on and off thing of you know the that cycle 154 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:35,760 issue they've been here forever finally just finally got an A 155 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,510 power county guy to come out today is World squirrel on the 156 00:09:39,510 --> 00:09:46,290 line know that they found a bad neutral to the transformer. So 157 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,080 yeah, he said they said it should be good to go right now 158 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,230 because I was like, Oh man, if we if we lose power, We're so 159 00:09:52,230 --> 00:09:53,790 screwed. You know? Well, 160 00:09:53,790 --> 00:09:55,740 Adam Curry: that's why I have fossil 161 00:09:55,740 --> 00:09:58,230 Dave Jones: fuel any day of the week. Yeah. Now please 162 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:01,830 Adam Curry: know it's a scam. You know, they they they say oh, 163 00:10:01,830 --> 00:10:04,890 it's gonna be freezing rain I saw no rain no precipitation at 164 00:10:04,890 --> 00:10:07,230 all I said this is not coming and of course it didn't but they 165 00:10:07,230 --> 00:10:13,980 jacked up the prices. So yeah, and and we have a generator and 166 00:10:13,980 --> 00:10:16,200 of course you know the generators to ensure that your 167 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,730 power pretty much never goes out ever again which is what it did 168 00:10:20,940 --> 00:10:24,390 in power didn't go out to the generator just sitting there and 169 00:10:24,390 --> 00:10:26,910 waiting and waiting for it and you know for the big Apocalypse 170 00:10:26,940 --> 00:10:33,060 it didn't come. But that's okay. It was nice and toasty inside. I 171 00:10:33,060 --> 00:10:35,940 eked out a booster gram ball, which I hadn't done in over a 172 00:10:35,940 --> 00:10:38,040 week, which I was really happy about. 173 00:10:38,460 --> 00:10:42,060 Dave Jones: Congratulations. It made me smile to see a drop. 174 00:10:42,089 --> 00:10:44,249 Adam Curry: Did you Did you listen to what he just watched 175 00:10:44,249 --> 00:10:46,229 it drop? No, I just watched your drop 176 00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:47,070 Dave Jones: and then a wind about 177 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,810 Adam Curry: something productive with your 178 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,830 Dave Jones: resume I can of spray foam insulation trying to 179 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:57,180 not die. 180 00:10:59,130 --> 00:11:02,010 Adam Curry: Anyway, there was all kinds of stuff going on. I 181 00:11:02,010 --> 00:11:06,660 think the split kids database provider had some issue and it 182 00:11:06,660 --> 00:11:08,640 was very hard troubleshooting everything. I feel like 183 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,040 Dave Jones: that's going on, you know, code database on the split 184 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,230 kit problem. Yeah, yeah, it 185 00:11:13,230 --> 00:11:15,870 Adam Curry: came back up. Came back. Okay. It worked out. Okay. 186 00:11:16,140 --> 00:11:19,560 But just speaking. What are we drinking show beer. 187 00:11:20,099 --> 00:11:23,879 Dave Jones: Oh, this? No, not at lunch break? No, this is a 188 00:11:23,909 --> 00:11:24,659 mineral water. 189 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:25,920 Adam Curry: Yeah, what kind? What's 190 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,600 Dave Jones: the calorie free? Is a polar seltzer does have 191 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:35,250 natural flavors. It has no flavors. It says its premium and 192 00:11:35,250 --> 00:11:39,810 naturally calorie free. This is the flavor of this is original 193 00:11:40,799 --> 00:11:42,839 Adam Curry: Jazz, but doesn't have the ingredients natural 194 00:11:42,839 --> 00:11:45,899 flavors, because this is the scam that I'm not okay, because 195 00:11:45,899 --> 00:11:47,759 that's anything but natural flavors. And 196 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,630 Dave Jones: the ingredients say carbonated water pay go? Yeah. 197 00:11:51,690 --> 00:11:52,350 And 198 00:11:52,950 --> 00:11:56,310 Adam Curry: following along with the podcast index dot social, I 199 00:11:56,310 --> 00:12:00,090 saw that wavelike all of a sudden, as you say, entered the 200 00:12:00,090 --> 00:12:03,570 room. What did they what did they do exactly. 201 00:12:04,380 --> 00:12:07,920 Dave Jones: But they they put channel level value blocks in. 202 00:12:08,430 --> 00:12:10,680 So they have you know, they've never had channel level value 203 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:14,550 blocks. Everything's been at the episode level. And it had 204 00:12:14,550 --> 00:12:18,000 something I never fully understood. But Michael said, it 205 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,480 just has something to do with the way they were just the way 206 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:27,330 their system was built, did it it was kind of hard for them to 207 00:12:27,330 --> 00:12:35,580 do a channel level value block. And so you know, a try. I tried 208 00:12:35,580 --> 00:12:39,150 to make it work a little bit. I thought I could let me get back 209 00:12:39,150 --> 00:12:42,960 into it and say the problem with that the rent. It's not a 210 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:49,200 humongous problem for most apps, but there's a couple of apps 211 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:55,260 like breeze that that really did struggle with this because Oh, I 212 00:12:55,260 --> 00:12:59,640 didn't know that. Yeah, so the way that the way the podcast 213 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,160 index database is set up with value box, there's two different 214 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:08,130 tables, there's a value box, there's a a new there's a news 215 00:13:08,130 --> 00:13:11,790 feed value blog table, and then there's an item's everything a 216 00:13:11,790 --> 00:13:16,530 slash episodes value blocks table that have relationships. 217 00:13:16,530 --> 00:13:21,570 And so the the way like, for instance, the way breeze works 218 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:28,140 is it only shows value enabled feeds, you know, it's not a 219 00:13:28,140 --> 00:13:31,830 general purpose player, if it doesn't have a value. Oh, 220 00:13:32,190 --> 00:13:35,160 Adam Curry: yes, I get it. I get it. I get it. Yeah. 221 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:41,850 Dave Jones: And so the is the, the API calls for searching 222 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,170 value enabled feeds just wouldn't return anything because 223 00:13:46,170 --> 00:13:49,590 they're the item label. I got Yeah, they technically weren't 224 00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:54,690 value enabled feeds they were value enabled episodes. So that 225 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,350 never really got resolved in so now that's all fixed so now 226 00:13:58,350 --> 00:13:59,940 breeze should have all the music. 227 00:14:00,210 --> 00:14:04,470 Adam Curry: So I was I was listening to the episode one of 228 00:14:04,470 --> 00:14:10,770 waveform that's the podcast. I'll do it yeah. But if you 229 00:14:10,770 --> 00:14:14,430 could look at that feed for a second because you know, I only 230 00:14:14,430 --> 00:14:17,820 look on grants that I'm looking at it podcast guru which has 231 00:14:17,820 --> 00:14:22,500 always been spot on for me. And it has I mean I know they played 232 00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:25,560 at least two songs but and they said that you know they were 233 00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:33,570 splitting the the V for V but I see they have one value time 234 00:14:33,570 --> 00:14:39,240 split one but not the it seemed like they are having some issues 235 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,600 with their value time and I also don't think they have their 236 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,900 podcasts that is medium equals music. No I wouldn't be meeting 237 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:47,400 equals music I'm sorry. That's wrong. 238 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,900 Dave Jones: Anyway, can at the item level and they have a value 239 00:14:51,930 --> 00:14:54,000 Adam Curry: they value time split in there. They have one 240 00:14:55,410 --> 00:14:58,050 now they have two or they do because I don't only one showed 241 00:14:58,050 --> 00:15:00,750 up maybe that maybe that something with 242 00:15:02,639 --> 00:15:06,749 Dave Jones: that two of them. Yeah. Is they both valid person? 243 00:15:06,810 --> 00:15:09,720 Adam Curry: Are they both valid because I only only one shows up 244 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:10,200 for me 245 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,070 Dave Jones: to thought was weird pod in pod verbs. Podcast 246 00:15:14,070 --> 00:15:15,720 Adam Curry: Guru is what I was looking at 247 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,910 Dave Jones: podcast. Let me check to see me check cast O 248 00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:26,550 Matic because KISSmetrics got a pretty Yeah, clear. That's what 249 00:15:26,820 --> 00:15:27,930 I mean clear and as you are. 250 00:15:28,350 --> 00:15:29,820 Adam Curry: And while you're while you're looking at that, 251 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,540 now, I'm delighted that to do it that they're making these 252 00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:40,290 changes because they can be so important in the value verse, I 253 00:15:40,290 --> 00:15:42,990 keep saying using this word, they can be so important in the 254 00:15:42,990 --> 00:15:49,230 value verse by just being a great music host. Because they 255 00:15:49,230 --> 00:15:51,570 understand how to speak to artists and they have and 256 00:15:51,570 --> 00:15:55,410 they've got the vibe going. Then I was listening to them on the 257 00:15:55,410 --> 00:16:01,260 podcast. And it was, I mean, there was a lot about noster and 258 00:16:01,260 --> 00:16:06,870 like it's just frustrates me because then I then I see 259 00:16:07,050 --> 00:16:11,100 Zebedee, Zebedee is the the big noster wallet guy, right. 260 00:16:11,490 --> 00:16:14,490 Zebedee does it biddies every day. Yeah, that's too and 261 00:16:14,490 --> 00:16:22,380 they're promoting music playlists on on fountain. So 262 00:16:22,410 --> 00:16:24,360 looks like some capitulation there. 263 00:16:25,530 --> 00:16:26,850 Dave Jones: Zebedee is Yeah, 264 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,060 Adam Curry: well the other got video ads running on on Twitter. 265 00:16:31,980 --> 00:16:36,420 Yeah. Which by the way, make make voting fountain. Well, it 266 00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:39,480 makes they make it look like honestly at first I was like is 267 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,570 Aberdeen amended this looks like fountain but it's Zebedee now 268 00:16:42,570 --> 00:16:44,670 was anybody's anybody's liberties? Ebody somebody 269 00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:45,750 somebody's liberty? 270 00:16:46,290 --> 00:16:47,250 Dave Jones: Yeah. And the days they're 271 00:16:47,250 --> 00:16:52,020 Adam Curry: back in? Yeah. And then at the very end, it says it 272 00:16:52,020 --> 00:16:57,240 has the fountain logo. Next, Zebedee. But they kind of make 273 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,240 it look like you create a playlist on fountain you get 274 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:00,780 paid. 275 00:17:02,820 --> 00:17:07,050 Dave Jones: Oh, the you do, right. 276 00:17:08,070 --> 00:17:10,740 Adam Curry: I don't know. Is that but that must be a fountain 277 00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:11,520 specific thing. 278 00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:14,400 Dave Jones: Yeah, I think I think it is. That makes sense. 279 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,310 Yeah. Yeah, I think it is now I think you do get a get a cut. 280 00:17:17,310 --> 00:17:21,390 And then I think Sam Sethi said that true fans is doing that 281 00:17:21,390 --> 00:17:22,560 too. If you make playlists, 282 00:17:22,590 --> 00:17:25,560 Adam Curry: okay, that's me get a cut. But then can I subscribe 283 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:31,230 to that playlist? In a different app? Or is that only is it only 284 00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:36,090 that I don't know when that true fans see that? That's where I'm 285 00:17:36,090 --> 00:17:39,510 like, oh, maybe no, make it available. So you can share it 286 00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:42,180 with everybody. Otherwise, you're kind of making the 287 00:17:42,180 --> 00:17:45,750 Spotify mistake. Spotify thought they could keep it all but you 288 00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:47,340 need the whole ecosystem. 289 00:17:48,420 --> 00:17:51,240 Dave Jones: Now this is interesting. Steven bass as we 290 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,610 found out Zebedee doesn't work in Florida because of state 291 00:17:53,610 --> 00:17:58,020 regulations. How is is that based on Geo IP? Do you know I 292 00:17:58,020 --> 00:17:58,200 think 293 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,760 Adam Curry: it works. But you can't you can't take you can't 294 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:08,610 take SATs out of Zebedee. I think I think I think it works. 295 00:18:10,530 --> 00:18:12,390 Dave Jones: This is so messed up. Yeah. 296 00:18:12,450 --> 00:18:17,010 Adam Curry: Oh, yes. Correct. is messed up. Absolutely. That's 297 00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:24,000 really in Manhattan, New Hampshire. You can't transfer 298 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,420 sets. That's it. Yeah. But you can bet you can send them right. 299 00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:30,300 You can use the wallet to send just can't transfer it out of 300 00:18:30,300 --> 00:18:36,930 the wallet into something. Yeah. Oh, you can't boost. Wow. Wow, 301 00:18:36,930 --> 00:18:39,300 Dave Jones: this is that's crazy. I had no idea that there 302 00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:43,650 was that they have to be doing Jeep geolocation. Well, to 303 00:18:43,650 --> 00:18:46,110 Adam Curry: be honest, who needs Florida? Come on, which is 304 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,060 Dave Jones: the appendix of the United States. Hanging that's 305 00:18:51,060 --> 00:18:52,800 not doing much. That's 306 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,430 Adam Curry: messed up. Oh, that's interesting. 307 00:18:56,730 --> 00:18:58,530 Dave Jones: Um, I guess VPN would work. 308 00:18:59,070 --> 00:19:01,170 Adam Curry: Maybe? Maybe? 309 00:19:02,100 --> 00:19:04,410 Dave Jones: I don't know. It as weird. 310 00:19:04,410 --> 00:19:07,440 Adam Curry: Well, that's that's a that's a that's like, a non 311 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,210 starter almost. That's weird. 312 00:19:10,260 --> 00:19:13,080 Dave Jones: Yeah. Because I mean, it doesn't seem to be the 313 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:14,940 case without be. No. 314 00:19:14,970 --> 00:19:17,850 Adam Curry: Well, they're in Germany. Tell they got a whole 315 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,160 whole different thing going on there. I will run into these 316 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,060 problems. There's no doubt about it. But But anyway, the point 317 00:19:24,060 --> 00:19:28,770 being the music stuff feels like it's working. You know, it's 318 00:19:28,770 --> 00:19:33,450 like people are drawing closer. I love seeing wave Lake, doing 319 00:19:33,450 --> 00:19:37,320 something that makes it better. And I can only presume they're 320 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:43,140 doing more. I'm just not feeling the heat from noster I'm just 321 00:19:43,140 --> 00:19:47,700 not feeling it. I'm not glad I'm granted. I'm a little biased 322 00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:51,630 because we follow Jay 55 on the on the mostre bridge through 323 00:19:51,630 --> 00:19:55,290 podcasts index dot social. And it just seems like he's the only 324 00:19:55,290 --> 00:19:59,160 guy I know he's not. He's the only guy and he's basically 325 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,620 building everything. under that app, everything, you know, the 326 00:20:01,620 --> 00:20:05,100 database, the search, it's all in one app. And that's it. 327 00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:06,780 Unless you have that app, you don't have any of the 328 00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:10,080 functionality. He's like, it's like an app and a relay in one. 329 00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:17,880 Dave Jones: It's the noster is just a, it's it's hanging on by 330 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:24,150 a thread. If enough Domus goes, it's over. Are you sure? Yeah. 331 00:20:24,210 --> 00:20:26,640 Adam Curry: I mean, you say that I just don't know. I just don't 332 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:26,970 know. 333 00:20:28,620 --> 00:20:32,370 Dave Jones: How many. I guarantee you that. 90% of the 334 00:20:32,370 --> 00:20:38,520 people who are on noster are also also on Twitter. Oh, well, 335 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:39,210 because and 336 00:20:39,210 --> 00:20:41,850 Adam Curry: telegram that's where they have a telegram group 337 00:20:41,850 --> 00:20:44,790 to discuss to discuss developments. So yeah. 338 00:20:46,590 --> 00:20:50,460 Dave Jones: It seems like a fun hobby for them. No, that's what 339 00:20:50,460 --> 00:20:54,300 it seems like. It seems like a fun hobby for Bitcoiners to try 340 00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:58,650 to build this thing, and that's fine. But it's not I don't see 341 00:20:58,650 --> 00:21:02,340 this thing having seen I have no I have no confidence that noster 342 00:21:02,340 --> 00:21:03,960 will still be around five years from now. 343 00:21:04,770 --> 00:21:09,960 Adam Curry: In a way it's kind of the same issue that activity 344 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,400 Pub has is no activity Pub is universally seen as the mastodon 345 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:20,940 thing. And, and the the social network noster is seen as what 346 00:21:20,940 --> 00:21:24,030 noster is, even though noster clearly can be much more 347 00:21:24,030 --> 00:21:29,400 universal login. You know, there's there's a lot of benefit 348 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,770 to some of that. 349 00:21:33,330 --> 00:21:37,080 Dave Jones: When we ran in, you know, we ran into we've hit 350 00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:41,850 we've hit the first problem with the whole nostre thing. Right? 351 00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:46,740 You know, this week is so Alex Gleason is Jills. He's working 352 00:21:46,740 --> 00:21:49,200 on nos. He's the one that built the monster bridge and all that. 353 00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:54,450 He's doing a lot of noster work and he was like, Well, how do I 354 00:21:54,450 --> 00:22:02,010 get podcasts? How do I get the value information so that we can 355 00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:07,710 zap podcasts when they come through the bridge? Right? Oh, 356 00:22:08,730 --> 00:22:10,830 Adam Curry: oh, wow. Wait a minute. So so we're going from 357 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,510 the podcast index, to the activity pub bridge to the 358 00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:19,320 nostril bridge, through the nostril bridge sexy. Okay, 359 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,140 that's super interrupt, except when it when it comes out the 360 00:22:22,140 --> 00:22:26,820 other end. On the Nasir bridge, we've we lost everything. We the 361 00:22:26,820 --> 00:22:30,750 resolution is very low because we don't have splits. That's 362 00:22:30,750 --> 00:22:32,850 Dave Jones: it. And that's where it all falls apart is because 363 00:22:32,850 --> 00:22:37,950 you so you have a you have a podcast with six splits in it, 364 00:22:38,130 --> 00:22:41,610 different people getting paid. You can't there's no way to zap 365 00:22:41,610 --> 00:22:46,350 that. You can't. It just all falls apart. They stick because 366 00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:49,770 To my knowledge, they still have no sense of what a true of a 367 00:22:49,770 --> 00:22:55,110 true split. And and all that stuff is just it's just a mess. 368 00:22:55,140 --> 00:22:58,950 Adam Curry: It's so weird, because it I mean, I've seen the 369 00:22:58,950 --> 00:23:03,060 proposals. I've seen the what is it the spectrum proposal from 370 00:23:03,060 --> 00:23:03,750 GG? 371 00:23:04,830 --> 00:23:06,960 Dave Jones: Yeah, but see, that wasn't a real that was just an 372 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:12,300 article saying we need this. Nobody's fully baked it yet. 373 00:23:12,660 --> 00:23:16,620 That in a way, that's not a central US solution. I mean, 374 00:23:16,620 --> 00:23:20,310 that you, you could say like, the prison thing is what you're 375 00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:23,430 talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And so there's been there's been 376 00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:26,730 there's been other things that are like a centralized prism 377 00:23:26,730 --> 00:23:30,210 service where you can send this thing to them, and they'll 378 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,030 they'll do some sort of splitting for you. But that's 379 00:23:33,030 --> 00:23:35,700 like a I mean, it's just a service, that's a product. 380 00:23:36,810 --> 00:23:40,800 Adam Curry: Well, but when the when the podcast comes through, 381 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,710 take it to the bridge comes through the bridge, then goes to 382 00:23:43,710 --> 00:23:48,510 the master bridge, can't it take the payment information along 383 00:23:48,510 --> 00:23:51,270 and just translate those? I mean, yeah, you'd have to zap 384 00:23:51,270 --> 00:23:53,820 them individually. I guess that seems like the only way you 385 00:23:53,820 --> 00:23:55,170 could do that. Well, it's 386 00:23:55,170 --> 00:23:57,840 Dave Jones: all ln URL that see this. And this is another core 387 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,170 problem with with with noster. And zapping and all this kind of 388 00:24:01,170 --> 00:24:05,130 stuff is it was built. It's built by the Ellen URL, people. 389 00:24:05,460 --> 00:24:09,120 So they've made a commitment to Ellen URL over Kison from day 390 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:14,340 one. And so it's a more it's a more complicated that you can't 391 00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:17,490 just grab a note ID and send instant money you have to go 392 00:24:17,490 --> 00:24:21,570 through this handshake rigmarole of getting an invoice for every 393 00:24:21,570 --> 00:24:25,200 payment you want to make. So there's this there's just not a 394 00:24:26,580 --> 00:24:29,430 they've felt like they've hamstrung themselves with with 395 00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:36,090 this dedication to Ellen URL. Where as if it was just a bunch 396 00:24:36,090 --> 00:24:40,860 of key sends a bunch of key sins. Yeah, that's easy. You 397 00:24:40,860 --> 00:24:44,130 just get a list of address and key send it right like literally 398 00:24:44,130 --> 00:24:47,880 the value block is what is all you need, and you can just lock 399 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,800 it out. You can just pop pop up pop up, right 400 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,290 Adam Curry: because the ln URL that you have to have some 401 00:24:52,290 --> 00:24:55,890 interaction with the wallet you have to you have to say yes pay 402 00:24:56,430 --> 00:25:00,690 or Yes. Voice and then you have to enter the amount And then pay 403 00:25:00,690 --> 00:25:02,880 is that is that the that's the difference? 404 00:25:03,150 --> 00:25:04,650 Dave Jones: Yeah, you got to look at you got to resolve the 405 00:25:04,650 --> 00:25:09,990 address, make a call to the make a call to the Ellen URL layer on 406 00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:13,290 top of the node, ask for an invoice for the amount you're 407 00:25:13,290 --> 00:25:18,450 going to send, wait for the invoice to be generated, then do 408 00:25:18,450 --> 00:25:22,260 and then pay the invoice. So you have to ask the receiving party 409 00:25:22,260 --> 00:25:25,020 to give you an invoice before you before you can send the 410 00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:25,680 payment. So 411 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,430 Adam Curry: I saw on the namespace discussion, which I 412 00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:32,070 tried to stay away from because it's really bad for my health. 413 00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:38,340 Just anything, GitHub is like, I want to be there. And I saw 414 00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:43,110 there was quite a discussion about Ellen, Ellen URL PE and 415 00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:47,670 the this, this kind of flows into Phase seven, so we might as 416 00:25:47,670 --> 00:25:51,120 well get ready to talk about that. I saw Roy chiming in there 417 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,000 was all kinds of discussion about how to handle the well 418 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,050 known address. 419 00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:58,650 Dave Jones: No way. Did this happen. This must have happened 420 00:25:58,650 --> 00:25:59,130 yesterday. 421 00:25:59,340 --> 00:26:01,860 Adam Curry: I don't know. I mean, I might have been looking 422 00:26:01,860 --> 00:26:04,920 at something from from two months ago for all I know, let 423 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,780 me see. namespace. Let me just take a look. 424 00:26:10,260 --> 00:26:14,700 Dave Jones: Because I love to comment in there about can we 425 00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:17,790 get some confirmation of Yep. Okay. I see. I missed the 426 00:26:17,790 --> 00:26:18,690 replies. Okay. 427 00:26:19,620 --> 00:26:20,160 Adam Curry: See, 428 00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:25,290 Dave Jones: I had logged in a comment about in order to have 429 00:26:25,290 --> 00:26:30,450 the lightning address in there. We need I just wanted 430 00:26:30,450 --> 00:26:36,600 confirmation of how apps we're going to handle paying through 431 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,460 the lightning address or the keys and address using using 432 00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:46,080 Alby I just wondered if Okay, cannot tell, cannot tell 433 00:26:46,110 --> 00:26:51,300 applications that are going to like cast ematic that don't have 434 00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:56,130 a back end server and depend on albies API cannot tell Franco 435 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:01,860 that he will now or in the future be able to rely on on 436 00:27:01,860 --> 00:27:05,190 Albea to do the keys and address resolution rather than having to 437 00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:06,240 do it on device. 438 00:27:06,270 --> 00:27:09,510 Adam Curry: So what I what I read here is that Roy was saying 439 00:27:09,540 --> 00:27:14,190 that the ln address spec should be extended to support multiple 440 00:27:14,190 --> 00:27:17,760 send options. So this seems like we're going into a little 441 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,700 different realm that just something for the namespace for 442 00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:21,600 our namespace. 443 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:25,650 Dave Jones: See, down 444 00:27:25,650 --> 00:27:26,550 Adam Curry: at the bottom there. 445 00:27:30,540 --> 00:27:34,950 Dave Jones: Well, yeah, so I missed all these replies. And 446 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,870 I'm gonna see in this for the first time, 447 00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:39,570 Adam Curry: what you can parse that and immediately understand 448 00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:41,370 and tell me what's going on. I'm so disciplined. 449 00:27:41,730 --> 00:27:44,400 Dave Jones: Already immediately understand that the boomy from 450 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,650 lb says no, they're not going to do that. They're not 451 00:27:46,650 --> 00:27:50,460 Adam Curry: going to do what? Address Resolution? Oh, so it 452 00:27:50,460 --> 00:27:56,070 has to happen on the on the app on device on device, which is 453 00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:56,550 bad? 454 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,010 Dave Jones: Well, you know, I mean, open to interpretation. 455 00:28:02,220 --> 00:28:05,880 That means are we losing people here? I mean, do we need to have 456 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,470 a? Do we need to bring people up to what this means? Like? 457 00:28:13,170 --> 00:28:15,600 Esoteric discussion where people are like, What the hell they 458 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:16,380 talk as opposed 459 00:28:16,380 --> 00:28:18,540 Adam Curry: to everything else we do on this show? Okay. 460 00:28:19,470 --> 00:28:21,750 Dave Jones: Fair enough. No, no? Okay. 461 00:28:21,810 --> 00:28:24,450 Adam Curry: Yes, update us because it is part of Phase 462 00:28:24,450 --> 00:28:27,930 seven. This is we are now entering the hot namespace talk 463 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:33,030 for and now it's time for some hot namespace talk. Do you want 464 00:28:33,030 --> 00:28:35,250 to just take him in order? I think this is number one, isn't 465 00:28:35,250 --> 00:28:40,560 it? Let me see what now you have an order here. Phase seven. 466 00:28:40,890 --> 00:28:44,940 Phase seven of the namespace? The we see? Well, it's number 467 00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:47,700 three on the list. But what since we're talking about it, 468 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,390 number three of phase seven for the namespace is key send 469 00:28:51,420 --> 00:28:52,080 addressed. 470 00:28:53,640 --> 00:29:01,260 Dave Jones: Okay. The value in the podcasts value block, 471 00:29:01,620 --> 00:29:06,600 currently, where you define who's going to get paid. It 472 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,760 defines the spec defines a value recipient. And the value 473 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:17,370 recipient has a type. The only one available right now as a 474 00:29:17,370 --> 00:29:20,190 type of note is the type node right? 475 00:29:20,190 --> 00:29:22,920 Adam Curry: And then you can have as extra parameters the 476 00:29:23,460 --> 00:29:27,150 special key and the secret code. Yes. 477 00:29:27,630 --> 00:29:30,720 Dave Jones: So you can have the public so there you have the you 478 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,140 have the the node ID of the lightning address the lightning 479 00:29:34,140 --> 00:29:37,560 node you're sending the money to and an optional custom key 480 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,160 custom value for routing if you're sending to a multiple 481 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,060 wallet node provider like Alby your fountain or right whoever. 482 00:29:47,490 --> 00:29:51,960 Satoshi stream whatever so then, that's so essentially you have a 483 00:29:52,350 --> 00:29:57,120 an address, which has a long hexadecimal, it's like a BEC 32 484 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,020 or whatever that code is, which is your note interest. That's 485 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,290 what is currently all that that's the way this all works. 486 00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:08,760 There's no resolving that happens. You're just, you're 487 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:14,910 like, here's the note Id send it this mini SATs done. what's 488 00:30:14,910 --> 00:30:21,210 being proposed is, is changing that to something to where 489 00:30:21,210 --> 00:30:25,500 there's a name instead of a node ID. So that there's a resolution 490 00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:28,410 step that has to have happen, you have to resolve the name 491 00:30:28,410 --> 00:30:36,480 into its corresponding node ID. Right. And that's to, and that's 492 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,830 to make it where in the future if wallet providers like 493 00:30:40,830 --> 00:30:44,400 fountain or Alby or whoever the Well, this was, just 494 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,040 Adam Curry: so we know this was a request from fountain and 495 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:47,520 Albie. 496 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,320 Dave Jones: Yeah, that yeah, Oscar, Oscar tossed the ball up, 497 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,010 and I'll be bouncing, you know, they, they've been bugged, kept, 498 00:30:56,010 --> 00:31:00,390 kept kept in the air. So they, they both need this or, you 499 00:31:00,390 --> 00:31:03,930 know, and understand the need, I think they're legit is a 500 00:31:03,930 --> 00:31:06,390 legitimate need on their part, they do not want to go through 501 00:31:06,390 --> 00:31:13,140 the pain of having to deprecate a node ID, because there's 502 00:31:13,230 --> 00:31:15,990 potentially hundreds of feeds out there that have this that 503 00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:18,990 are hard that people are hard to get in touch with. Makes perfect 504 00:31:18,990 --> 00:31:25,500 sense, I get it. The the consequence, though, of doing 505 00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:29,970 that is not a deal killer, it just means we all need to have 506 00:31:29,970 --> 00:31:32,070 our eyes open. The consequence of doing that, as I've mentioned 507 00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:38,070 before, is that now an app has to do the risk resolution. So if 508 00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:43,260 you have a value block with 10 splits in it, now you have to 509 00:31:43,260 --> 00:31:48,690 resolve potentially 10 Different add in different API, HTTP calls 510 00:31:48,690 --> 00:31:50,670 before you can even start paying. And 511 00:31:50,670 --> 00:31:53,340 Adam Curry: so just, I'm just gonna make it simple because I'm 512 00:31:53,340 --> 00:32:01,740 the dummy. That means there's a Adam at fountain and.fm, and 513 00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:05,610 it's an AC HTTP call would better be HTTPS, otherwise, 514 00:32:05,610 --> 00:32:10,050 Google would get angry. Oh, it will be Yeah. And so Oh, there's 515 00:32:10,050 --> 00:32:14,280 nothing can go wrong, expiring certs. And then that basically 516 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,760 resolves to a text file that said, that gives the information 517 00:32:18,150 --> 00:32:22,800 as previously mentioned, node ID and the custom key and the cost 518 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,930 of the routing information. That's basically what's in that 519 00:32:24,930 --> 00:32:32,400 text file. Or, or it's an Ellen URL PE, thing. That's, that's 520 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,400 the key difference there. No, that's not there. Okay. The 521 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:35,700 Ellen 522 00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:38,700 Dave Jones: URL has nothing to do with this. Okay, this has 523 00:32:38,700 --> 00:32:41,460 nothing to do with this. Okay. Got it. And that was confusion 524 00:32:41,460 --> 00:32:45,030 at the beginning, because we're the proposed name for this was L 525 00:32:45,030 --> 00:32:48,660 and your LP TA for the address resolution, but that it was a 526 00:32:48,660 --> 00:32:51,720 misnomer. That million euro has nothing to do with Okay, got it. 527 00:32:51,900 --> 00:33:00,720 So we moved we got past that. And, you know, the, the issue 528 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:07,140 here is, the ACA thinks the thing I don't like about it. And 529 00:33:07,140 --> 00:33:10,470 again, none of these are deal killers. I still I want to make 530 00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:16,890 put this in the spec, I think it is a good idea. And I'm nervous 531 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:26,460 about introducing HTTP, to what is to what is not necessarily an 532 00:33:26,460 --> 00:33:27,900 HTTP based 533 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,840 Adam Curry: thing. Because right now, all all the apps have to do 534 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,800 is talk to the API and say, here's, here's the split 535 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,980 addresses, go at it. And now there will be an extra step that 536 00:33:40,980 --> 00:33:45,540 has to be put in, which is the resolution, correct? Right. 537 00:33:45,570 --> 00:33:49,830 Dave Jones: Okay. So imagine this is this is a little bit 538 00:33:49,860 --> 00:33:55,230 this concern of mine is obscured by the fact that most all the 539 00:33:55,230 --> 00:34:03,450 apps use Alby or fountain uses a different provider. But consider 540 00:34:03,450 --> 00:34:09,780 a an app like breeze. Now, I know this doesn't necessarily 541 00:34:09,780 --> 00:34:14,820 apply to breeze because Roy is okay with this. He's okay with 542 00:34:14,820 --> 00:34:17,190 Ellen URL and these kinds of things. He's going to make that 543 00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:25,020 work. But what I'm saying is consider a an app like that, 544 00:34:25,890 --> 00:34:34,620 where it speaks lightning natively. And you can so what 545 00:34:34,620 --> 00:34:39,180 you have is a lightning address. Excuse me, what you have is a 546 00:34:39,180 --> 00:34:44,430 node ID for the receiving payment. And you have an app 547 00:34:44,460 --> 00:34:49,170 that can speak lightning natively. And so that is a that 548 00:34:49,170 --> 00:34:52,890 is a not a lightning native transaction from start to 549 00:34:52,890 --> 00:34:59,220 finish. Now, what you've done is you've introduced an address 550 00:34:59,220 --> 00:35:03,120 that has to be reserved oft. So what was a pure lightning? 551 00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:09,270 Native transaction from soup to nuts is now interrupted with an 552 00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:15,690 HTTP transaction? In order to get the lightning address that 553 00:35:15,690 --> 00:35:18,570 you need to finish the lightning transaction, right? 554 00:35:18,570 --> 00:35:20,700 Adam Curry: So it really goes from something that was very 555 00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:27,300 elegant to the two, okay, do we cache these? Do we, you know, it 556 00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:29,940 adds overhead, it can fail, 557 00:35:31,050 --> 00:35:33,960 Dave Jones: the caching would be critical, because you really 558 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:40,020 don't like you can't, most most apps do not want the overhead of 559 00:35:40,020 --> 00:35:44,700 having to make potentially 10 or 20, even address resolution 560 00:35:44,700 --> 00:35:46,890 lookups, every minute that they're going to make, they're 561 00:35:46,890 --> 00:35:48,240 going to be sending payments. Okay, we 562 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,220 Adam Curry: know this for a fact. I'm just paying, playing 563 00:35:50,220 --> 00:35:52,020 devil's advocate, because what do I know? 564 00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:55,170 Dave Jones: Yeah, like caching is absolutely going to be net 565 00:35:55,170 --> 00:36:02,160 necessary that for some period of time, and it's, you know, it. 566 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,160 Yeah. For sat streaming? Yeah, for the streaming per minute 567 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,470 stuff, you're, you're just gonna have to cash the address. And 568 00:36:07,470 --> 00:36:10,650 like I say, it's not, I mean, it's none of this is like, the 569 00:36:10,650 --> 00:36:14,550 end of the world. But there's some sort of purity problem I 570 00:36:14,550 --> 00:36:20,100 have with this where, you know, and I'll get over it, believe 571 00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:23,640 me, but there's just a there's something, you know, it's, it 572 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:30,180 just doesn't feel as clean to me, because I've never really 573 00:36:30,210 --> 00:36:35,490 liked the whole Ellen URL thing to begin with. Because I just, I 574 00:36:35,490 --> 00:36:41,190 don't think there's, it's like we use we bring HTTP in to solve 575 00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:47,310 a bunch of problems that are that might, I don't know, it's 576 00:36:47,310 --> 00:36:52,800 sort of like a band aid, we stick on top of things. And, and 577 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,830 I'm just not crazy about that. I guess the reason I've been him 578 00:36:55,830 --> 00:37:01,200 hauling around and not really and haven't pulled the trigger 579 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,760 yet, is two reasons. One is I don't, I need a story to tell. 580 00:37:06,420 --> 00:37:10,080 To add developers like, like Franco, like okay, Franco here, 581 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,320 you're gonna start seeing these come through, you're gonna, once 582 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,930 this goes into the spec, you're gonna start seeing lightning 583 00:37:15,930 --> 00:37:21,960 addresses, keys and addresses come through. And here's how 584 00:37:22,020 --> 00:37:26,010 you're gonna have to handle it. So there are, I mean, people are 585 00:37:26,010 --> 00:37:30,570 gonna have to make changes to their apps across the board. I 586 00:37:30,570 --> 00:37:34,860 mean, and so that's, it's my, it's easy to propose this bag, 587 00:37:34,860 --> 00:37:37,260 but then I'm the one that has to tell the story to the developers 588 00:37:37,260 --> 00:37:38,760 when they say, Okay, what is this? 589 00:37:38,820 --> 00:37:44,400 Adam Curry: So let me ask you a question. Why? Why? Doesn't seem 590 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,550 like you said Bhumi had answered that Why does an owl be want to 591 00:37:47,550 --> 00:37:51,000 do that? Why don't they want to do the resolution? Because of 592 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,600 the overhead? I'm just presuming it. 593 00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,870 Dave Jones: But he says, I think we should not rely on wallet 594 00:38:00,870 --> 00:38:04,530 payment providers to implement parts of the spec. And you 595 00:38:04,530 --> 00:38:05,760 should be independent, but 596 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:06,990 Adam Curry: they're the ones requesting it. 597 00:38:09,150 --> 00:38:15,000 Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think 598 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,350 like this will, this will happen? I mean, I'm probably 599 00:38:19,350 --> 00:38:22,710 just just do it. I mean, like, it's not, we've been waiting 600 00:38:22,710 --> 00:38:27,090 around too long already. And it just needs a small utility of 601 00:38:27,090 --> 00:38:27,750 this. We need. 602 00:38:27,780 --> 00:38:31,890 Adam Curry: Yeah, I do too. And believe me, and even though I 603 00:38:31,890 --> 00:38:36,720 have plenty of my own nodes, I also hook stuff up to Albie, no 604 00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:40,860 doubt about it. But I'm also prepared to immediately switch 605 00:38:40,860 --> 00:38:44,700 that, if which I don't think most of these apps could even 606 00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:51,000 do. I would happily switch that to my own node, which Yeah, no, 607 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,350 I think I can do it through the lb. Extension, maybe I don't 608 00:38:55,350 --> 00:39:00,330 know. But my fear is I just don't want to lock us into 609 00:39:00,330 --> 00:39:06,660 boxes. That if if lb goes away, then what then we have to create 610 00:39:06,660 --> 00:39:11,640 wallets that if it's wallet side, then none of the wallets 611 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,760 will be in your mind node won't be able to do that at home. So 612 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,140 something will have to be built. 613 00:39:16,650 --> 00:39:19,350 Dave Jones: Will the current the current the where the proposal 614 00:39:19,350 --> 00:39:24,030 currently stands now, in I think it's I think we'll probably just 615 00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:28,860 go with this. I mean, like, you know, maybe I don't know, maybe 616 00:39:28,860 --> 00:39:37,500 even this week, some is that you have the key send address in 617 00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:42,570 there. And then you also have the node ID. And if you can't 618 00:39:42,570 --> 00:39:45,030 resolve the case and address you just fall back to the node ID 619 00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:48,210 and pay make the payment like you always have, or attempt it 620 00:39:48,210 --> 00:39:53,430 as you always have. That seems like the best compromise I can 621 00:39:53,430 --> 00:40:00,360 think of. You know, basically it just allows for an extra to 622 00:40:00,900 --> 00:40:06,300 attribute in the value recipient tag, which is a key send 623 00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:12,540 address. And the keys, if you see the key sender address in 624 00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:16,740 your app supports that feature. You've built the code that does 625 00:40:16,740 --> 00:40:19,740 the caching and the resolution and everything within look it 626 00:40:19,740 --> 00:40:26,160 up, do a lookup. I wish there was some way to do this natively 627 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,820 within the Lightning Network, where we wouldn't have to jump 628 00:40:29,820 --> 00:40:35,190 to HTTP. That's really what I'm that's really what I'm after. 629 00:40:35,220 --> 00:40:38,640 And I just don't know that it's a thing that can be done. I wish 630 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:44,190 there was a native name resolution that can happen that 631 00:40:44,190 --> 00:40:47,280 was native to lightning. I just, just 632 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,680 Adam Curry: well, for sure. I think the one thing we kind of 633 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:56,820 need is some more app developers in this particular thread. We 634 00:40:56,820 --> 00:41:01,710 need to hear from them. No, I don't. I don't see a single app 635 00:41:01,710 --> 00:41:05,040 developer except Roy chiming in on this thread. 636 00:41:05,820 --> 00:41:08,070 Dave Jones: But no, there was a Franco's chimed in. Oh, yeah. 637 00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:08,610 Okay. 638 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,970 Adam Curry: Yeah. What Franco say no problem. He's 639 00:41:12,090 --> 00:41:13,440 Dave Jones: nice that I don't want to do it. 640 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,820 Adam Curry: Okay. I mean, 641 00:41:17,820 --> 00:41:21,780 Dave Jones: which is, you know, which is understandable, you 642 00:41:21,780 --> 00:41:26,280 know. So, it's understandable, 643 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,320 Adam Curry: but I don't want to break things. I don't want to I 644 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,940 don't want apps to fall fall down. Because, you know, we 645 00:41:32,940 --> 00:41:35,490 implement something that someone said up front, I don't want to 646 00:41:35,490 --> 00:41:37,020 do it. Well, 647 00:41:37,050 --> 00:41:38,970 Dave Jones: no, I mean, I think he's saying he doesn't want to 648 00:41:38,970 --> 00:41:41,880 be forced to do all the lookups on device. But if we have this 649 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,030 as if we have the fallback as the you know. 650 00:41:48,030 --> 00:41:49,740 Adam Curry: Yeah. But I don't have that meant, that doesn't 651 00:41:49,740 --> 00:41:52,500 make it. I mean, yeah, if we have the fallback. Sure. But, 652 00:41:52,830 --> 00:41:56,550 but that fall back, people are going to be putting their their 653 00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:59,820 keys and addresses in their feeds, and they're not going to 654 00:41:59,820 --> 00:42:03,150 fall back just going to be oh, here's a, here's your address. 655 00:42:03,180 --> 00:42:06,690 This is what Alby says you are and you use this, well, they're 656 00:42:06,690 --> 00:42:08,940 Dave Jones: gonna fail on some apps, I mean, they'll they'll 657 00:42:08,940 --> 00:42:11,130 have to know that if they're not, if they're not following 658 00:42:11,130 --> 00:42:13,620 the spec, then they're gonna have, they're gonna fail on some 659 00:42:13,620 --> 00:42:19,050 apps. So essentially, the way the way the spec, the way the 660 00:42:19,050 --> 00:42:26,760 spec proposal is now is basically is the key is that key 661 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:31,290 send, there's basically that the value recipient thing does not 662 00:42:31,290 --> 00:42:33,690 change, everything that's required is still required, you 663 00:42:33,690 --> 00:42:38,370 just have a fallback of being able to do a resolution if 664 00:42:38,370 --> 00:42:42,660 paying to the node fails. So it's basically just like turning 665 00:42:42,660 --> 00:42:42,750 to 666 00:42:42,750 --> 00:42:45,330 Adam Curry: enter two values. Now you have to enter, you don't 667 00:42:45,330 --> 00:42:45,990 have to, 668 00:42:46,110 --> 00:42:49,230 Dave Jones: you can, okay, desert that you can enter a 669 00:42:49,230 --> 00:42:53,040 lightning address. Okay. And some providers will do that, you 670 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,850 know, if then. So like, imagine, this is a this is easier to 671 00:42:56,850 --> 00:43:00,360 understand if you imagine a future scenario like this 672 00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:07,890 fountain changes their node. So now all of the the podcast or 673 00:43:07,890 --> 00:43:11,880 wallets that are hosted on fountain, they now have to 674 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,720 change their node address in their feed. 675 00:43:16,380 --> 00:43:19,140 Adam Curry: Yeah, that's why that's being done. For the 676 00:43:19,140 --> 00:43:19,620 value. Yeah, 677 00:43:19,620 --> 00:43:22,320 Dave Jones: right for the value recipient. So in that scenario, 678 00:43:23,310 --> 00:43:26,670 if they if those things, if those podcasts or wallets in 679 00:43:26,670 --> 00:43:31,710 their value recipient tags in their fees, also had a fountain 680 00:43:31,860 --> 00:43:37,440 keys and address defined, then, when apps tried to send a 681 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:42,360 payment to the to the node ID and it failed, meaning the node 682 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,740 disappeared and went away. They could then attempt the address 683 00:43:46,740 --> 00:43:51,330 lookup to find what the new node ID is. Okay. So, 684 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,640 Adam Curry: yeah, I gotcha. I gotcha. Yeah. 685 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,310 Dave Jones: Yes, I think I think this is not something that I 686 00:43:59,310 --> 00:44:02,100 think we're, wait a minute, there's no sticking points. And 687 00:44:02,130 --> 00:44:05,190 Adam Curry: so that that actually sounds maybe I just 688 00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:09,690 want to play back what I thought I think I heard you say, because 689 00:44:09,690 --> 00:44:16,110 you could also make it and this might be the easier way. So I 690 00:44:16,110 --> 00:44:19,770 sign up with get lb get lb gives me a node ID and the routing 691 00:44:19,770 --> 00:44:23,730 information that that information pair. And they also 692 00:44:23,730 --> 00:44:29,940 give me Adam at get albea.com. And then I would say, look up 693 00:44:29,940 --> 00:44:34,080 the node ID first the app just says oh node ID, okay, boom, if 694 00:44:34,110 --> 00:44:39,510 it fails, then do a quick lookup and see is it the correct node 695 00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:45,180 ID? Yes. So instead of lookup always lookup if fail. 696 00:44:47,610 --> 00:44:49,200 Dave Jones: Does that okay? 697 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,410 Adam Curry: So instead of always do the lookup, which is based 698 00:44:52,410 --> 00:44:57,150 the main problem people like to look up if the payment fails, 699 00:44:57,930 --> 00:45:00,090 which could be for a number of reasons, but if the payment Then 700 00:45:00,090 --> 00:45:05,250 fails, then do a look up on the name to see if the node ID is 701 00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:08,940 still correct. Yes, that's exactly right. That Okay, that 702 00:45:08,940 --> 00:45:10,920 seems like a reasonable solution. I mean, it's not 703 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,280 great. People still have to have to add stuff to their app. But 704 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,970 that may be a kind of a good compromise. Yeah, 705 00:45:18,090 --> 00:45:20,250 Dave Jones: I don't see anything that's gonna keep us from doing. 706 00:45:21,060 --> 00:45:21,420 Yeah. 707 00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:24,030 Adam Curry: Well, I want people arguing in the GitHub, that's a 708 00:45:24,030 --> 00:45:26,730 lot more fun. There's not enough arguing people haven't called 709 00:45:26,730 --> 00:45:29,940 anyone Hitler yet. So we got to get to that point people before 710 00:45:29,940 --> 00:45:32,130 we can make a decision. Yeah. 711 00:45:32,670 --> 00:45:35,160 Dave Jones: We've only had one one person called a prick in the 712 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,220 last 72 hours. So this, we're, we're below 713 00:45:39,390 --> 00:45:42,150 Adam Curry: arable. We kind of step it up people. 714 00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:47,580 Dave Jones: Yeah, we're way below quota. That's reasonable. 715 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,850 That I just, I'm glad you brought my attention this 716 00:45:50,850 --> 00:45:53,340 because I have not checked this morning, man. I tossed that that 717 00:45:53,340 --> 00:45:55,620 comment in there yesterday. And there's a flurry of activity. So 718 00:45:55,620 --> 00:45:58,200 I need to catch up with what's being proposed because there's 719 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,070 some kind of new like, format, so yeah, okay. But I think we're 720 00:46:02,070 --> 00:46:03,720 good. I think we can do that as we'll figure 721 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:07,530 Adam Curry: that out. All right, good. Next point. Let's go back 722 00:46:07,530 --> 00:46:10,650 to the beginning of phase seven. Alright, come on. Come on. We 723 00:46:10,650 --> 00:46:13,860 haven't done a proper namespace chat. And you said, Here's face 724 00:46:13,860 --> 00:46:14,850 seven the plan. 725 00:46:15,390 --> 00:46:16,260 Dave Jones: Okay. It's my fault. 726 00:46:16,530 --> 00:46:19,080 Adam Curry: It's your fault. I mean, unless you want me to 727 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,450 bitch about Sam Sathya can do that for a minute. If you want a 728 00:46:21,450 --> 00:46:22,170 little interim. 729 00:46:23,610 --> 00:46:26,790 Dave Jones: What is that in the namespace? I 730 00:46:26,790 --> 00:46:29,310 Adam Curry: didn't say it's not it. No, it's not. But we'll get 731 00:46:29,310 --> 00:46:32,220 to that. cebiche about Sam city and No, you didn't do your 732 00:46:32,220 --> 00:46:37,560 homework. You didn't listen to the the weekly review of 733 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,710 knotless now okay, which apparently is number one on good 734 00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:47,010 pots. It's the best podcast ever. Yeah. Don't worry, Sam, 735 00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:49,320 for another glass of wine. I'm coming back to you, brother. 736 00:46:51,450 --> 00:46:59,490 publish, publish your medium and feeds. Okay. But all right, what 737 00:46:59,490 --> 00:47:00,600 is that? I forget? 738 00:47:02,010 --> 00:47:04,950 Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, that's this is the this is 739 00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:07,950 the thing that where you have the public, you know, you have a 740 00:47:07,950 --> 00:47:13,380 publisher feed that defines children feeds. So, you know, I 741 00:47:13,410 --> 00:47:16,410 might use your metaphor, you would have an overall no agenda. 742 00:47:16,410 --> 00:47:19,860 You know, you're not like an Adam curry. Publisher, no agent, 743 00:47:19,860 --> 00:47:23,370 you know, yeah. Adam curry is the publisher feed. And then you 744 00:47:23,370 --> 00:47:28,950 would define no agenda, podcasting. 2.0 my FX career in 745 00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:32,880 the keeper always child fades, and then those child feeds would 746 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,490 have a link back to the publisher feeds so that you have 747 00:47:35,490 --> 00:47:37,110 a double confirmation. Now, 748 00:47:37,110 --> 00:47:41,280 Adam Curry: do we have anyone any example of this being 749 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:46,650 created? Who is creating these? Is there so is there a host that 750 00:47:46,650 --> 00:47:47,640 is creating these? 751 00:47:48,330 --> 00:47:52,890 Dave Jones: Who I don't know about hosts? Maybe dovie Das? 752 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,720 Adam Curry: Because what was our kind of unwritten rule one host 753 00:47:57,720 --> 00:47:58,530 two apps? 754 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:05,040 Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, we've got I mean, that on 755 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,740 that part, I don't think that'll be a problem. I think we'll have 756 00:48:08,370 --> 00:48:10,710 two or three hosts in two or three apps immediately. Yeah. 757 00:48:10,770 --> 00:48:12,750 Adam Curry: And this is more for music. Right. So this is 758 00:48:12,750 --> 00:48:15,480 something we'd want we would hope wave leg would implement. 759 00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:16,260 Yeah, 760 00:48:16,260 --> 00:48:18,960 Dave Jones: Adobe does proposed is when Nathan say so that mean, 761 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,690 he's obviously going to do it. And Steven bass probably already 762 00:48:21,690 --> 00:48:24,390 done it. Okay. So but it seems like it's probably already 763 00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:25,230 ready. Done it. Right. 764 00:48:25,260 --> 00:48:27,750 Adam Curry: So it seems like for music, this is really great for 765 00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:30,390 music. I mean, for me, it's like yeah, I don't necessarily need 766 00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:34,050 to have a publisher feed. But I can see this for it for music 767 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:35,760 makes a lot of sense. I can see. 768 00:48:37,470 --> 00:48:40,020 Dave Jones: I mean, it's yeah, for music for sure. That's 769 00:48:40,020 --> 00:48:45,870 that's the slam dunk. But I can see that. I think you might want 770 00:48:45,870 --> 00:48:49,950 to do it more than you think. Because it's it's really good. 771 00:48:50,340 --> 00:48:55,350 For it's really good for discovery, like in a true way. 772 00:48:55,380 --> 00:48:59,520 Because now, now you're not just saying. So we've got this, these 773 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:00,660 attempts at Discovery. 774 00:49:00,750 --> 00:49:03,030 Adam Curry: They were waiting for pod roll to show up. 775 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,880 Dave Jones: We got we got tons of pod roll. Yeah, but 776 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:07,590 Adam Curry: what apps are surfacing them? 777 00:49:09,690 --> 00:49:13,890 Dave Jones: ln URL, I mean, eskimi ln beats? Ellen beats 778 00:49:13,890 --> 00:49:15,450 this is pulling pod rolls, right? 779 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:18,660 Unknown: I think I don't know. 780 00:49:19,710 --> 00:49:22,410 Dave Jones: But bus bus browse show in pod rolls all over the 781 00:49:22,410 --> 00:49:24,630 place. Oh, no. But the true fans is shown pod 782 00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:29,370 Adam Curry: rolls. No, I but no other apps that I use have. I'm 783 00:49:29,370 --> 00:49:33,000 waiting for an app that I use to say, Oh, here's a couple other 784 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:38,910 here's some recommendations from this podcast. I know people are 785 00:49:38,910 --> 00:49:41,370 publishing I mean, I'm publishing cross app comments. 786 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,390 There's lots of stuff that's being published. I'm just I'm 787 00:49:45,390 --> 00:49:48,030 just wondering if the apps if any apps are showing it 788 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,890 Dave Jones: if they are have not gotten feedback, okay, 789 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,130 Adam Curry: well, and I'm a big believer in is is a no yes. I'm 790 00:49:59,130 --> 00:50:03,330 a big believer in publish first. And then you know that 791 00:50:03,330 --> 00:50:07,170 information eventually an app might want to implement that. So 792 00:50:07,290 --> 00:50:11,100 just a reminder that we have these things that people can put 793 00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:14,280 into their UI and the UX and make cool stuff is, when you 794 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,530 say, discovery, that's when I just go, Oh, really? Well, I'm 795 00:50:16,530 --> 00:50:20,040 not discovering anything yet. Because the apps I use, don't 796 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,620 show me the pod roles. Or 797 00:50:23,550 --> 00:50:26,910 Dave Jones: the pod roles, not in the API. But there is, but I 798 00:50:26,910 --> 00:50:30,720 do publish it. Because it's a little bit there's something 799 00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:34,560 Okay, so there's some things like pod roll, that are a little 800 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,190 awkward to publish as an API, they don't really feel API ish. 801 00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:43,620 Because it's just a big long list of like, it's, it's almost 802 00:50:43,620 --> 00:50:47,850 like a it's almost like a database, you know what I mean? 803 00:50:47,850 --> 00:50:54,540 Like, it's just a big humongous list of things. That changes all 804 00:50:54,540 --> 00:50:58,830 the time in a minute. It's, it's not like your I don't know, it 805 00:50:58,830 --> 00:51:02,340 just doesn't it seems odd to publish as an API response to 806 00:51:02,340 --> 00:51:04,530 what I do with luck, things like that. It's almost like it's like 807 00:51:04,530 --> 00:51:08,400 the stats. But the stats thing, I don't publish that necessarily 808 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,170 an API. Just I just publish those to a to an object storage 809 00:51:13,170 --> 00:51:17,370 location with a URL. So you can just ping the URL every so 810 00:51:17,370 --> 00:51:20,820 often, and get the new updated stats, and you can get the new 811 00:51:20,820 --> 00:51:25,770 updated pod rolls. And you can get the new updated value for 812 00:51:25,770 --> 00:51:28,920 value music chart. And just a lot of stuff like that this 813 00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:36,120 digit doesn't feel very API like. So that's, so those things 814 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:41,730 are out there. If anybody, let me see if I need to make those. 815 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:47,850 You know, here's an issue. I need to make the locations of 816 00:51:47,850 --> 00:51:51,390 some of these things because we publish tons of stuff at 817 00:51:51,420 --> 00:51:55,110 different URLs, like undocumented stuff. Yeah. And 818 00:51:55,110 --> 00:51:57,330 it's just I'm like, Hey, here's this thing. Here's where it's 819 00:51:57,330 --> 00:52:00,210 gonna be. And it's just, it's just a toot. Okay. 820 00:52:01,350 --> 00:52:04,050 Adam Curry: That's documentation. Its timeline. 821 00:52:04,620 --> 00:52:07,020 Dave Jones: Yeah, it's like, here's it, here it is. And 822 00:52:07,020 --> 00:52:12,540 that's not really sufficient. So we probably need some sort of 823 00:52:12,540 --> 00:52:17,640 dedicated resource that shows where these non API locations 824 00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:18,660 are. So people know. Okay, 825 00:52:18,660 --> 00:52:22,080 Adam Curry: so. So pod roll is not in the API. 826 00:52:23,940 --> 00:52:26,730 Dave Jones: Pod rolls, not in the API, but we are publishing 827 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,780 aggregated pod roll data that anybody can use in their app 828 00:52:30,810 --> 00:52:33,180 Adam Curry: aggregated. Right, right, right. Okay. 829 00:52:34,230 --> 00:52:35,970 Dave Jones: Yeah, because we went, we went through it. 830 00:52:38,610 --> 00:52:40,980 Adam Curry: Was it not only risky? I don't even remember 831 00:52:40,980 --> 00:52:44,490 where it is. Right. But does it not make sense to add pod roll 832 00:52:44,490 --> 00:52:48,420 to the API? If you really want to do discovery? So you know, 833 00:52:48,420 --> 00:52:53,670 apps that are using the API can say, Oh, here's some data, let 834 00:52:53,670 --> 00:52:55,740 me find a place to put that. Well, 835 00:52:55,740 --> 00:52:58,530 Dave Jones: it should probably be put in the API documentation, 836 00:52:58,530 --> 00:53:01,560 even if it's not in the API itself. Because really, you 837 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,960 know, I mean, these locations, these object storage locations 838 00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:09,900 is they're still part of, it's still the services we offer. And 839 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,130 so it kind of should be all discoverable through the same, 840 00:53:14,820 --> 00:53:18,420 like, would call through the same like channel, which is the 841 00:53:18,420 --> 00:53:19,560 API documentation. 842 00:53:20,550 --> 00:53:22,320 Adam Curry: Right. But there's nothing to document because we 843 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,940 don't have it yet. Now we got it. We have aggregate we don't 844 00:53:26,940 --> 00:53:33,180 have do we have individual? So viral? If I Yeah. So if I ping, 845 00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,680 if I asked the API for the feed information from podcasts and 846 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,430 2.0. At no point does the API return the pod roll that I've 847 00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:42,090 put in there? 848 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,890 Dave Jones: I don't think I don't think it does yet. 849 00:53:49,950 --> 00:53:51,690 Adam Curry: Okay. Well, then that would explain why most 850 00:53:51,690 --> 00:53:54,450 people aren't used aren't aren't adding that. Yes. 851 00:53:55,140 --> 00:53:59,610 Dave Jones: This this. This is gonna sound crazy. But I lose 852 00:53:59,610 --> 00:54:01,170 track of what I do. No, 853 00:54:01,170 --> 00:54:03,960 Adam Curry: that doesn't sound crazy at all. Not not No, no, it 854 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,860 doesn't. No, I seriously, I love you, brother. I'm just, you 855 00:54:07,860 --> 00:54:11,310 know, you know why I'm here. I'm here. I'm here for the chicks. 856 00:54:13,380 --> 00:54:17,610 Dave Jones: Chicks. So there's so many so 857 00:54:20,580 --> 00:54:22,650 Adam Curry: No, I'm just saying that, you know, week so we 858 00:54:22,650 --> 00:54:26,580 return cross app comments in the API, right, we return the route 859 00:54:26,580 --> 00:54:32,430 post. Yeah. Okay. So just like that when we have a feature, 860 00:54:32,700 --> 00:54:36,930 which is something that's in the feed, which is the pod roll. In 861 00:54:36,930 --> 00:54:40,500 order for that discovery mechanism to crank up I think we 862 00:54:40,500 --> 00:54:44,610 need to add that to the information. The API spits back 863 00:54:44,610 --> 00:54:49,200 when a when an app says give me the latest. Then it needs to be 864 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,290 able to see Oh, pod roll. Okay, I'm seeing all because, yeah, 865 00:54:52,290 --> 00:54:57,480 Buzzsprout has tons of pod rolls in their feeds. But and the 866 00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,720 aggregated feed which I should probably look at the That's I 867 00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:03,870 don't know, if there's a if only JSON, I'm not going to be 868 00:55:03,870 --> 00:55:07,440 looking at it. But if there's no looking at the aggregated stuff 869 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,000 is nice. But for true discovery, very similar to this feature to 870 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,740 the publisher. It has to be coming from the API. So the app 871 00:55:16,740 --> 00:55:21,180 developers can put that into their UI. I guess that's Is 872 00:55:21,180 --> 00:55:24,720 that, am I assuming correctly? Yeah. 873 00:55:24,810 --> 00:55:28,950 Dave Jones: It's a wish I knew whether I'd already put this if 874 00:55:31,290 --> 00:55:34,470 Adam Curry: it doesn't matter whether you put it in or not. Do 875 00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:37,560 we agree it should be in the API? So that that that's 876 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:39,540 something that can be used? Yeah. 877 00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:43,830 Dave Jones: For Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. I agree for 878 00:55:43,830 --> 00:55:48,930 sure. Yeah. Let me actually, I can probably check, see me log 879 00:55:48,930 --> 00:55:53,310 in here. I can probably add, I can pry x. And then 880 00:55:53,310 --> 00:55:55,350 Adam Curry: of course, you know, credo would have to document it, 881 00:55:55,350 --> 00:55:58,170 etc. Obviously, all that stuff comes in. And I'm just, I love 882 00:55:58,170 --> 00:56:01,950 these features. You know, and people can always do a look up 883 00:56:01,950 --> 00:56:05,910 on the feed. But I think, you know, you look at probably the 884 00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:10,230 majority of the apps are relying on the API. And, you know, 885 00:56:10,230 --> 00:56:13,380 here's some great data that we should add. Does 886 00:56:13,380 --> 00:56:15,930 Dave Jones: this says Steven Crowder saves me from myself? 887 00:56:15,930 --> 00:56:19,500 Because I'll put something in and he'll be like, Hey, I'm not 888 00:56:19,500 --> 00:56:23,310 documenting this. Yes. Be it because of x y&z Okay. Yeah. 889 00:56:23,340 --> 00:56:28,800 Yes, thank you. I'm trying to find a fee that I know has a pod 890 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,750 robust cast. I know they have a plateau. 891 00:56:31,290 --> 00:56:33,990 Adam Curry: So I get this all stems from you said is great for 892 00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:37,440 discovery. And then that just triggered me in to say, I'm not 893 00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,080 discovering anything. And I'm not just I'm not even 894 00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:45,240 discovering my own my own pod role. Which I have a pod role on 895 00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:48,180 this show and no agenda on carrying the keeper. Yeah, I put 896 00:56:48,180 --> 00:56:52,290 the pod. We've got one. Yeah, yeah, we got pod roll, a pod 897 00:56:52,290 --> 00:56:52,560 row. 898 00:56:53,700 --> 00:56:55,830 Dave Jones: See, okay, well, then I can check our feet then. 899 00:56:56,250 --> 00:57:01,710 On 20666, you know, by heart? Oh, yeah. And no agenda is 415. 900 00:57:01,710 --> 00:57:09,450 Before. There is no pod role being returned in the API. So 901 00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:10,590 that is a negative. 902 00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,240 Adam Curry: All right, but there's one. Let me just let me 903 00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:15,180 just make sure I'm not full of crap here. I'll show info pod 904 00:57:15,180 --> 00:57:19,200 roll. Yes, I believe you do media show pod news, weekly 905 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:20,730 review. Look at this discovery. 906 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,110 Dave Jones: You just discovered, what are you blame? I know, 907 00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,120 Adam Curry: it's in my publishing app. Of course. 908 00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,880 That's where I discovered the stuff I put in there. It works 909 00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:30,450 perfectly. 910 00:57:30,930 --> 00:57:32,220 Dave Jones: It's called View Source. 911 00:57:33,900 --> 00:57:35,160 Adam Curry: Yes, View Source. 912 00:57:36,390 --> 00:57:37,170 Dave Jones: Notepad. 913 00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:42,570 Adam Curry: Okay, so I think everyone agrees everyone likes 914 00:57:42,570 --> 00:57:43,980 the publisher. 915 00:57:46,500 --> 00:57:48,000 Dave Jones: Nobody complained about it 916 00:57:48,030 --> 00:57:51,570 Adam Curry: now. But it will be great to have these things 917 00:57:51,570 --> 00:57:57,540 obviously in the in the API. That just makes sense. 918 00:57:58,260 --> 00:58:01,260 Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. When the publisher stuff goes down? Well, 919 00:58:01,590 --> 00:58:06,870 yeah, well, for sure. Like, if we'll fish this, this will be 920 00:58:06,870 --> 00:58:10,080 like a big circular karate chop. We'll just do all this. You 921 00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:13,230 know, we'll pod roll publisher, we'll just Yeah, okay. 922 00:58:13,740 --> 00:58:17,010 Adam Curry: All right. All right, good. Then authorization, 923 00:58:17,310 --> 00:58:20,670 which used to be known as an effing email address in your 924 00:58:20,670 --> 00:58:28,410 feed. Okay. So now we have podcast verify ownership. What 925 00:58:28,410 --> 00:58:29,040 is this? 926 00:58:32,790 --> 00:58:39,300 Dave Jones: This is this is a mostly developed spec that never 927 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:45,690 got views dished. You never got proof of concept, proof of 928 00:58:45,690 --> 00:58:52,860 concept ID. So, basically, I think where we're at with this 929 00:58:52,860 --> 00:58:57,780 one is we just need to, I start I got halfway through Oh, more 930 00:58:57,780 --> 00:59:01,800 than halfway like 75% of the way through, building a proof of 931 00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:07,200 concept. book after I had a long conversation with Tom Rossi one 932 00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:13,110 day as he drove down the coast of Florida. And we hashed this, 933 00:59:13,140 --> 00:59:16,410 Adam Curry: we were you playing Barry Manilow on the radio and 934 00:59:16,410 --> 00:59:18,000 while you were having this little chat, 935 00:59:19,410 --> 00:59:25,560 Dave Jones: Mandy? No. So we, we hashed it out. And then I had to 936 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,290 wait. We had a way forward. Because he's the one that 937 00:59:28,290 --> 00:59:31,950 proposed like the spec and the discussion thread. It's kind of 938 00:59:31,950 --> 00:59:36,630 a mess, but but we did get us get sort of a consensus out of 939 00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:40,830 it. And then I got about 75% of the way through this proof of 940 00:59:40,830 --> 00:59:44,010 concept where I was going to bake this into podcast or 941 00:59:44,010 --> 00:59:48,120 wallet. I don't know I got really excited about that 942 00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:58,050 wallet. And so the it's it's like almost finished in there. 943 00:59:58,740 --> 01:00:00,780 But as you need to get back and finish it So I can find and make 944 01:00:00,780 --> 01:00:07,860 the podcast or wallet. The proof of concept for the authorization 945 01:00:07,890 --> 01:00:12,900 spec, then we're good. We're good. 946 01:00:14,580 --> 01:00:18,300 Adam Curry: And is this worth explaining how that 947 01:00:18,330 --> 01:00:21,990 authorization will work? Is that what is what is the workflow? 948 01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:22,950 No, 949 01:00:23,580 --> 01:00:28,530 Dave Jones: I forgot. Just get really. But it's there's some 950 01:00:28,530 --> 01:00:32,580 details that I'm not prepared to discuss. Because the it's 951 01:00:32,580 --> 01:00:36,840 basically it's not. You just have it's like a handshake. 952 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,110 You're you're passing a token back and forth. To just prove 953 01:00:40,110 --> 01:00:43,920 that you are who you are. You are who you say you are. That 954 01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:48,390 will like when I get off of the API bridge, 955 01:00:49,530 --> 01:00:52,110 Adam Curry: yeah, that's got you. That's got you're pretty 956 01:00:52,140 --> 01:00:54,690 pretty engaged. So just to 957 01:00:54,690 --> 01:00:56,220 Dave Jones: talk about that, too. Yeah, no, I 958 01:00:56,220 --> 01:00:58,680 Adam Curry: have it on the list. I have it on the list. But I 959 01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:02,730 just wanted to mention on true fans.fm, I go to podcasting to 960 01:01:02,730 --> 01:01:06,270 point out, I go to the recommendations tab, and there's 961 01:01:06,270 --> 01:01:06,990 my pod roll. 962 01:01:08,490 --> 01:01:09,240 Dave Jones: So what No, 963 01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:14,220 Adam Curry: and Gordon's TRUE fans.fm TRUE fans, the SAM Sethi 964 01:01:14,220 --> 01:01:19,620 platform, and and I go to the to our show podcasting to porno, 965 01:01:19,650 --> 01:01:22,470 um, there's a tab episodes, which is default. And there's 966 01:01:22,470 --> 01:01:25,650 one recommendations, I click on recommendations. And there are 967 01:01:25,650 --> 01:01:29,370 the four shows that I have in the pod roll. That's discovery. 968 01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,520 That's exactly now Sam is pulling that from the feed. 969 01:01:33,300 --> 01:01:37,380 Yeah. Right. So for apps that don't pull from the feed, that's 970 01:01:37,380 --> 01:01:39,960 great. I love this. That's exactly what I'm talking about. 971 01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:40,890 That's discovery. 972 01:01:43,170 --> 01:01:46,290 Dave Jones: No, it's easier than view source. It's a little 973 01:01:46,290 --> 01:01:49,590 prettier, which also works, but it's a longer process. Yeah. 974 01:01:50,070 --> 01:01:53,370 Adam Curry: So that's cool. But and, yeah, I'd love for apps to 975 01:01:53,370 --> 01:01:55,530 have that for sure. For sure. 976 01:01:58,230 --> 01:02:02,040 Dave Jones: Yeah, so So authorization. I think we're, 977 01:02:02,430 --> 01:02:04,830 that's the thing with phase seven. There's a lot of stuff in 978 01:02:04,830 --> 01:02:05,610 here that we've 979 01:02:06,690 --> 01:02:08,460 Adam Curry: we've talked about, we've talked about a lot of 980 01:02:08,460 --> 01:02:09,870 these. Yeah, 981 01:02:09,870 --> 01:02:14,070 Dave Jones: like these are things that are like half half 982 01:02:14,070 --> 01:02:19,170 or more than halfway baked already. And we're gonna have a 983 01:02:19,170 --> 01:02:25,080 get Alex coming on the show next week to discuss categories so 984 01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:27,720 that we can get like music genres and these kinds of 985 01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,990 things. So this is in this is a thing that we've we've hashed 986 01:02:30,990 --> 01:02:34,950 out a lot. We've also got the content links back to discuss 987 01:02:34,980 --> 01:02:36,960 I'm gonna think I'm gonna grab an eighth and have him on the 988 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:40,350 show if we can figure out a good time for him. So what can I ask 989 01:02:40,350 --> 01:02:41,190 content when I asked 990 01:02:41,190 --> 01:02:43,320 Adam Curry: you things about phase seven before we before we 991 01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:52,650 move on? Yeah, sure. So chat. Now because chat, as far as I 992 01:02:52,650 --> 01:02:57,990 know, there's one or two apps that just take the IRC version, 993 01:02:57,990 --> 01:03:02,190 but the O'Casey there's XMPP is in there. Okay, so So there, 994 01:03:02,340 --> 01:03:05,520 there are, this is pretty well fleshed out it just no one has 995 01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,480 really implemented an XMPP chat as far as I know. Yeah, 996 01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:11,760 Dave Jones: that's another Yeah. Chats. Another one. That's like, 997 01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:17,370 I mean, it's like, at least 75% done. I mean, it's not isn't a 998 01:03:17,370 --> 01:03:19,920 it's not, you know, like you can you can put a toothpick in that 999 01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,080 thing, and there's nothing sticking to it. It's almost 1000 01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:27,210 ready. Okay. So I think a lot of phase seven is gonna go when 1001 01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:31,140 it's gonna go fast. When we get to that point where we start, 1002 01:03:31,350 --> 01:03:34,800 you know, pulling the trigger on things. Okay. 1003 01:03:36,300 --> 01:03:39,930 Adam Curry: All right. And then the other one was, I saw a large 1004 01:03:39,930 --> 01:03:41,640 discussion about categories. 1005 01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,430 Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't want to I don't want to talk about 1006 01:03:44,430 --> 01:03:50,400 categories. And I don't want to talk about content link. Because 1007 01:03:50,460 --> 01:03:51,690 Content link is not in 1008 01:03:51,690 --> 01:03:55,380 Adam Curry: phase seven is no. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Oh, it is. I 1009 01:03:55,380 --> 01:04:00,030 didn't see it. Maybe I'm not I don't see it in line. Now. It's 1010 01:04:00,030 --> 01:04:04,620 not in phase seven. Please. No, there it is. No, I see. 1011 01:04:05,970 --> 01:04:11,850 Dave Jones: You're right. Wait, it's not? Yes, it is. Yes. It 1012 01:04:11,850 --> 01:04:17,940 is. No, it's not. Okay. Yeah, let's, yeah, I think I think 1013 01:04:17,940 --> 01:04:21,000 it's not in there. Because I worked on everything last night. 1014 01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,090 I think it was not in there because a read. By the time I 1015 01:04:24,090 --> 01:04:26,880 got finished reading through all the comments, I had new less 1016 01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:27,660 than when I started. 1017 01:04:29,220 --> 01:04:31,860 Adam Curry: All right category seems to still be up in the air 1018 01:04:31,860 --> 01:04:37,770 about I guess the main the main discussion is predetermined or 1019 01:04:37,770 --> 01:04:38,310 not. 1020 01:04:39,870 --> 01:04:43,980 Dave Jones: Right. And I think I think what everybody, everybody 1021 01:04:43,980 --> 01:04:47,700 who has a real interest in this, I think wants it to be not. 1022 01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:50,760 Yeah, they want these things to be freeform. 1023 01:04:52,500 --> 01:04:55,500 Adam Curry: Right. And if I recall from our discussion, we'd 1024 01:04:55,500 --> 01:04:59,760 like that because when you take it to the bridge, and you look 1025 01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:04,350 at Activity pub. The hashtags are not predetermined, but 1026 01:05:04,350 --> 01:05:07,290 they're searchable. There's a whole universe of them already. 1027 01:05:07,290 --> 01:05:13,140 There's an infrastructure that accepts the concept of, although 1028 01:05:13,170 --> 01:05:16,350 you could argue whether it's a category or a topic, I think 1029 01:05:16,350 --> 01:05:19,230 that's probably something we could argue forever. But that 1030 01:05:19,230 --> 01:05:20,940 was kind of the idea, right? 1031 01:05:22,260 --> 01:05:27,120 Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. So the idea was that if you the 1032 01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:29,970 problem, the problem with the category with categories as they 1033 01:05:29,970 --> 01:05:33,810 stand right now, like I said, I want to get too deep into this. 1034 01:05:33,810 --> 01:05:36,450 But the problem with with them is they haven't asked some 1035 01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:41,910 there's a there's a secret counsel, you have to go to to 1036 01:05:41,910 --> 01:05:45,330 petition to get new categories. Right. That's always a problem. 1037 01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,450 Yeah. And then we don't want to, we don't want to just recreate 1038 01:05:48,450 --> 01:05:52,200 that same problem, you know, we want this thing to function as, 1039 01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:57,390 yeah. Like activity pub does where, you know, things. 1040 01:05:57,450 --> 01:06:02,070 Consensus builds naturally around a hashtag. Yeah. 1041 01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:06,000 Adam Curry: Which is what the whole world kind of has moved 1042 01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:07,380 towards his hashtags. 1043 01:06:08,190 --> 01:06:12,600 Dave Jones: Yeah, even. Even email, like Gmail has just 1044 01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:13,080 labels. 1045 01:06:13,110 --> 01:06:14,940 Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. There's the late Yeah, 1046 01:06:14,970 --> 01:06:18,270 precisely. All right. I'm sorry. I thought you wanted to talk 1047 01:06:18,270 --> 01:06:20,490 about namespace. It sounds like I made you uncomfortable. 1048 01:06:21,030 --> 01:06:23,760 Dave Jones: No, no, no, that's not at all. It's just there was 1049 01:06:24,090 --> 01:06:27,810 the stuff we did talk about. I think it was good to talk about 1050 01:06:27,810 --> 01:06:31,470 the other stuff. I think it's too complicated. They, like each 1051 01:06:31,470 --> 01:06:36,450 one of those really needs its own, like full show. Oh, boy. 1052 01:06:36,900 --> 01:06:41,340 Okay, you know, because because the whole show, categories, like 1053 01:06:41,340 --> 01:06:44,610 we need, we need Alex on here, because he's gonna He's, he's 1054 01:06:44,610 --> 01:06:45,180 always coming 1055 01:06:45,180 --> 01:06:46,890 Adam Curry: right through the month route. We got him at the 1056 01:06:46,890 --> 01:06:49,920 end of the month, coming next week. Okay, so that's the end of 1057 01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:54,900 the month. went fast and went real fast. All right, let's talk 1058 01:06:54,900 --> 01:06:56,760 about the Fed suffocation, because that's what you've been 1059 01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:58,800 working on. That's where your head's at. I mean, I know it, I 1060 01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:02,550 see it. You've been doing you were doing so many tests that I 1061 01:07:02,550 --> 01:07:05,910 zoned out. I'm like, I don't know what to test. I don't know 1062 01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:09,810 what's working. Just I'll stay away. And I could only make it 1063 01:07:09,810 --> 01:07:11,640 worse by jumping in and saying something. 1064 01:07:13,020 --> 01:07:20,100 Dave Jones: Yes, the the, the latest that we that I put in 1065 01:07:20,100 --> 01:07:25,740 was? Well, what I did last night was I made some changes to add 1066 01:07:25,740 --> 01:07:31,890 deep links to the apps. So now, when a new episode post comes 1067 01:07:31,890 --> 01:07:34,050 through, oh, 1068 01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,620 Adam Curry: that's what that was. Oh, okay. Yeah, no. And 1069 01:07:37,620 --> 01:07:42,120 that's why you asked if the apps could make Mastodon profiles. 1070 01:07:43,410 --> 01:07:46,200 Dave Jones: Or somebody Yeah, somebody else was among humans 1071 01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:46,560 now. 1072 01:07:47,790 --> 01:07:50,070 Adam Curry: Even B or Chad F or one of those dudes 1073 01:07:50,100 --> 01:07:57,660 Dave Jones: chat F Yeah. So that's thanks to Nathan's long 1074 01:07:57,810 --> 01:08:03,120 list of of deep link URL spec. On GitHub, I was able to put 1075 01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:07,860 that in there. The deep linking to episodes directly is a 1076 01:08:07,860 --> 01:08:13,830 complete mess. And most most apps use some sort of internal 1077 01:08:13,830 --> 01:08:18,540 ID as the way to do that for the episode why they don't use an 1078 01:08:18,540 --> 01:08:23,340 episode guid at, I don't know, some sort of hash of the, of the 1079 01:08:23,340 --> 01:08:27,300 feed URL plus the good. I mean, it just seems a little odd to me 1080 01:08:27,300 --> 01:08:29,940 that there's so many that you use platform dependent 1081 01:08:29,940 --> 01:08:31,860 identifiers, but whatever. Okay, 1082 01:08:31,860 --> 01:08:42,150 Adam Curry: so, so I'm just looking here Okay, so, where's 1083 01:08:42,150 --> 01:08:47,640 the podcasting? 2.0 Did we get a live thing hold on podcasting? 1084 01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:53,040 2.0 Let me just take a look at the Nerdist podcasting 2.0 It 1085 01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:57,690 has now we didn't get a live item 1086 01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:02,910 Dave Jones: that must be something that broke 1087 01:09:04,019 --> 01:09:08,729 Adam Curry: so the idea is that in that in that post from that 1088 01:09:08,759 --> 01:09:16,679 podcast is 9206668 PETA podcast index.org That would have deep 1089 01:09:16,679 --> 01:09:21,629 links to the podcast apps that's going to be loaded 1090 01:09:22,350 --> 01:09:29,250 Dave Jones: Yeah, look at look at the one from pod News Daily 1091 01:09:29,250 --> 01:09:34,140 this morning. The post that came through because that has an also 1092 01:09:34,140 --> 01:09:37,950 there's image excuse me episode image art in there and not just 1093 01:09:37,950 --> 01:09:43,080 feed in image art. Oh, nice. Okay, album art. Let me signal 1094 01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:43,620 No, wait, that's 1095 01:09:43,620 --> 01:09:44,520 Adam Curry: not the right one. That's 1096 01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,170 Dave Jones: not there we go. I just sent it to you through 1097 01:09:46,170 --> 01:09:53,550 signal. Look at that and you'll see what it looks like. Okay. 1098 01:09:56,070 --> 01:09:57,960 Oh, yes, LPP just posted it. 1099 01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:03,150 Adam Curry: Nice. Yeah. That looks cool. Yeah, so that's very 1100 01:10:03,150 --> 01:10:04,590 cool. Okay, 1101 01:10:04,620 --> 01:10:07,080 Dave Jones: it's got lots of links to each of the individual. 1102 01:10:07,770 --> 01:10:17,160 What I did was put in links to 2.0 apps, open source apps, and 1103 01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:19,950 apps that we have a relationship with. So like, even though 1104 01:10:19,950 --> 01:10:23,190 overcast is not a 2.0 app when Marco donates to the show, and 1105 01:10:23,190 --> 01:10:26,910 he's supportive of what we're doing so we've got put them at 1106 01:10:26,910 --> 01:10:27,450 the bottom 1107 01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:36,510 you know, Pocket Casts we've had, you know, we've got a 1108 01:10:36,510 --> 01:10:38,400 decent relationship with those guys, even though they're not 1109 01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:42,480 doing a whole lot yet. So we, we've, so that's, that's in 1110 01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:46,170 there. And then if you just fall back, you can just fall back to 1111 01:10:46,290 --> 01:10:50,760 you know, listening to the enclosure in the browser. At the 1112 01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,220 bottom at the at the very bottom, so 1113 01:10:53,220 --> 01:10:55,590 Adam Curry: Yeah, listen, that's the listen. Yeah. 1114 01:10:56,220 --> 01:10:59,880 Dave Jones: So that's, that's where that's the latest thing 1115 01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:03,390 that that I've added. But we had a bunch of stuff this midweek 1116 01:11:03,390 --> 01:11:06,810 and I kind of wanted to delve into this for a second because 1117 01:11:07,860 --> 01:11:11,880 the developer is His name is his handle is silver pill, he 1118 01:11:11,910 --> 01:11:17,610 develops the activity pub software written in Rust called 1119 01:11:17,700 --> 01:11:18,270 Mitra, 1120 01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:19,230 Adam Curry: I follow it. 1121 01:11:21,420 --> 01:11:27,000 Dave Jones: Super helpful dude helped a lot with getting stuff 1122 01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:34,380 working. Because we were not the bridge was failing to he was 1123 01:11:34,380 --> 01:11:37,890 trying to follow from Maitre a podcast, it just wasn't working. 1124 01:11:38,700 --> 01:11:41,160 And it ended up being two different things and ended up 1125 01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:49,620 being a signature validation bug on his side, and a and a type A 1126 01:11:49,620 --> 01:11:56,460 D serialization problem on the on my side. And, you know, so 1127 01:11:56,460 --> 01:11:59,520 we've, we hashed it out over a few days and got it got it 1128 01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:04,740 working. But you know, it, it made me start thinking about a 1129 01:12:04,740 --> 01:12:08,400 lot of things with the bridge, in my original intent going into 1130 01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:15,060 this week was, and when I got it half way built, was to start 1131 01:12:15,060 --> 01:12:19,590 recording a reply, you know, like, noting replies, so did you 1132 01:12:19,590 --> 01:12:23,100 so we record the replies that happen, so that we can give the 1133 01:12:23,100 --> 01:12:26,040 replies back so people use these as route posts. 1134 01:12:26,070 --> 01:12:27,180 Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. 1135 01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:33,300 Dave Jones: The and I think I'm, I think I'm backing out of that 1136 01:12:40,050 --> 01:12:46,290 step put up, put out the orange cones back. Okay. And so the A 1137 01:12:46,290 --> 01:12:51,150 think so, there's a, there's a bunch of stuff going on here. I 1138 01:12:51,150 --> 01:12:54,360 mean, number one, and not to be discounted as what you what's 1139 01:12:54,360 --> 01:13:00,990 going on with no gender social. There's, you know, I think the 1140 01:13:00,990 --> 01:13:07,050 activity pub fediverse world is going is seeing the need to go 1141 01:13:07,050 --> 01:13:13,440 more towards much smaller instances Totally agree. People 1142 01:13:13,440 --> 01:13:21,690 need to have more, either see, they need to have and or more 1143 01:13:21,690 --> 01:13:27,870 ownership over their own presence, or their own profile. 1144 01:13:29,970 --> 01:13:41,820 And smaller tribes is, it's these, these, these monumentally 1145 01:13:42,570 --> 01:13:47,730 large instances, I think, are more, they're causing more 1146 01:13:47,730 --> 01:13:52,860 problems than they solve. And so there's the potential and then, 1147 01:13:52,890 --> 01:13:57,780 you know, I'm already thinking in this way. And then Spurlock 1148 01:13:57,780 --> 01:14:00,450 throws in this thing, and I'm talking about replies and 1149 01:14:00,450 --> 01:14:05,190 getting this stuff to work. And he says, he said something to 1150 01:14:05,190 --> 01:14:10,500 the effect of you know, the thing where the brain like, 1151 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:14,340 where you begin to get it with with activity Pub is the when 1152 01:14:14,340 --> 01:14:20,040 you realize everything is local. Primary primarily everything is 1153 01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:26,160 local first, then things get federated out between instances. 1154 01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:30,930 And you know, and my reply to that was you know, that's the 1155 01:14:30,930 --> 01:14:33,540 issue with the with the activity pub bread with the with the 1156 01:14:33,540 --> 01:14:37,530 podcast index, AP bridge is that there is there's nothing as 1157 01:14:37,530 --> 01:14:41,640 local. I mean, there is no you don't have nothing gets, there's 1158 01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,160 no even there's not even a sense of local if 1159 01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:50,280 Adam Curry: I if I follow it on my my instance, SIOP shop.com 1160 01:14:52,170 --> 01:14:55,650 Then it's just it's in the inbox. They're on my machine. 1161 01:14:56,970 --> 01:15:01,560 Dave Jones: Right? Yeah, you got Have you got the post delivered 1162 01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,910 to you? And there's never like the pot, the different podcast 1163 01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:08,220 actors on the bridge, they don't talk to each other. Right? 1164 01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:12,660 There's nothing local about it. Everything is remote. These are 1165 01:15:12,660 --> 01:15:15,270 just pod, these are just posts that are getting delivered to 1166 01:15:15,270 --> 01:15:21,030 the instances where where the people live. Yeah. So in that 1167 01:15:21,030 --> 01:15:25,740 sense, that's kind of a great position to be in really, 1168 01:15:26,250 --> 01:15:29,580 because what's happening is the episodes are getting, let's just 1169 01:15:29,580 --> 01:15:33,510 talk call these posts episode, the episode posts are getting 1170 01:15:33,510 --> 01:15:37,680 delivered to all the instances. And then the instances the 1171 01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:40,470 people on the instance can do whatever they want with them. 1172 01:15:42,030 --> 01:15:49,200 It's now it now becomes up to the individual tribe to react 1173 01:15:49,260 --> 01:15:52,590 and deal with that post whichever way they want. And so 1174 01:15:52,590 --> 01:15:57,990 like if you have a post, if you have a an A instance, and 1175 01:15:57,990 --> 01:16:04,560 activitypub instance, with a whole bunch of people who are, 1176 01:16:06,150 --> 01:16:09,660 you know, a whole bunch of people who are anti anti climate 1177 01:16:09,660 --> 01:16:15,390 change, or climate change, advocate AdvoCare and I know 1178 01:16:15,390 --> 01:16:19,740 what deniers No, not the opposite of deniers, confirm 1179 01:16:19,740 --> 01:16:21,150 errs climate change. 1180 01:16:22,590 --> 01:16:26,520 Adam Curry: Wait, hold on. Let me let me short let me shortcut 1181 01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,060 maybe, let me see if I understand this. What you're 1182 01:16:30,060 --> 01:16:36,660 saying is it makes more sense that if podcasting next out 1183 01:16:36,660 --> 01:16:43,530 social, publishes an episode, and then I'm subscribing to that 1184 01:16:43,530 --> 01:16:51,240 on my own instance, then people responding to that to that quote 1185 01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:56,820 unquote route post that those responses are primarily for them 1186 01:16:56,940 --> 01:17:00,210 for that local instance. And there may be a whole different 1187 01:17:00,210 --> 01:17:05,700 set of conversations going on on Mastodon dot social on that same 1188 01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:06,960 episode, essentially. 1189 01:17:07,470 --> 01:17:11,130 Dave Jones: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So So yeah, that's 1190 01:17:11,130 --> 01:17:14,550 interesting as Michael Michael Shellenberger who's on who's on 1191 01:17:14,550 --> 01:17:19,590 a podcast as a guest, that podcast in you have somebody on 1192 01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:24,090 climate accelerationist dot social, who follows that podcast 1193 01:17:24,090 --> 01:17:27,060 and you have somebody on climate deniers does social he follows 1194 01:17:27,060 --> 01:17:29,070 that podcast? And so that 1195 01:17:29,670 --> 01:17:33,300 Adam Curry: that's two different common threads? Yeah, that 1196 01:17:33,300 --> 01:17:35,970 Dave Jones: are not even related to one like they don't interact. 1197 01:17:36,300 --> 01:17:42,690 Why? Whereas if we sort of bridge the gap between him start 1198 01:17:42,690 --> 01:17:46,860 recording all these all these replies and giving them back, 1199 01:17:47,460 --> 01:17:53,280 all we're doing is becoming the the flashpoint for for for crowd 1200 01:17:53,820 --> 01:17:57,540 for Yeah, for problematic. So, garbage. 1201 01:17:57,570 --> 01:18:02,370 Adam Curry: I'm with you here. Okay. So okay, I'm not quite 1202 01:18:02,370 --> 01:18:06,180 sure how the where the how, what the what route posts I put into 1203 01:18:06,180 --> 01:18:10,320 my feed, that's kind of irrelevant for the moment. But 1204 01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:14,160 okay, so you have two distinct different instances, Mastodon 1205 01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,880 instances, just just making an amp Neo Pleroma doesn't matter. 1206 01:18:18,330 --> 01:18:22,350 So the acceleration is they have their thread. And then so one 1207 01:18:22,350 --> 01:18:26,250 person, I guess whoever subscribe, someone subscribe to 1208 01:18:27,270 --> 01:18:31,770 that podcast on their on mastodon.so. The deceleration is 1209 01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:37,590 thread. And they comment. Is there ever a moment where those 1210 01:18:37,590 --> 01:18:42,000 comments can crossover? Or does that mean that someone has to 1211 01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:46,830 comment from the deceleration is on the acceleration thread? 1212 01:18:47,940 --> 01:18:50,550 Dave Jones: If the only time there would be a crossover is if 1213 01:18:50,550 --> 01:18:54,840 somebody was intentionally mentioned, if somebody's handle 1214 01:18:54,900 --> 01:18:57,750 so if somebody from the climate? I think I 1215 01:18:57,750 --> 01:19:00,030 Adam Curry: think this is the most genius thing I've ever 1216 01:19:00,030 --> 01:19:05,910 heard. And I'll tell you why. This is exactly why tick tock is 1217 01:19:05,910 --> 01:19:09,870 successful. Tick tock is successful because their 1218 01:19:09,870 --> 01:19:16,620 algorithm bundles people who are in agreement instead of what X 1219 01:19:16,620 --> 01:19:21,150 does, which is throw in people who disagree and create activity 1220 01:19:21,150 --> 01:19:27,000 of people fighting. I like this a lot. Because now you you can 1221 01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:31,260 have two different conversations in quote unquote, tribes. You 1222 01:19:31,260 --> 01:19:35,580 can always tag somebody and then you can you can bring the you 1223 01:19:35,580 --> 01:19:40,620 can bring stuff in. But I think it will be much more successful 1224 01:19:40,650 --> 01:19:44,220 in the way you just described it. That's really mind blowing. 1225 01:19:45,420 --> 01:19:50,280 Dave Jones: Yes, I think by default, if we if we do not 1226 01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:55,650 track replies and return them as part of the poster as part of 1227 01:19:55,650 --> 01:20:00,570 the post request, we don't then we don't become we Never we do 1228 01:20:00,570 --> 01:20:03,810 not get involved in the moderation cycle at all. Right? 1229 01:20:03,810 --> 01:20:07,770 We don't actually contain any of this content. And there's no, 1230 01:20:08,010 --> 01:20:12,120 there's by default, no cross pollination between these 1231 01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:15,720 different tribes, unless they intend, but I think 1232 01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:20,310 Adam Curry: that's, that is genius. Because it removes so 1233 01:20:20,310 --> 01:20:24,870 much of the problem. The hostility, oh, yeah, you just 1234 01:20:24,870 --> 01:20:27,300 gonna get that, I mean, just gonna get tons of it, then you 1235 01:20:27,300 --> 01:20:30,900 can still create that if you know people do that anyway, 1236 01:20:30,900 --> 01:20:35,730 cross instance, I mean, hello, milk, milk made dot dot post or 1237 01:20:35,730 --> 01:20:39,420 dot club, whatever, you didn't even know what they don't want 1238 01:20:39,420 --> 01:20:44,640 to know. But, you know, so people can still, you know, can 1239 01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:50,100 still have that true cross community comment thread, but 1240 01:20:50,100 --> 01:20:53,730 they don't have to. I think that's really interesting. Now, 1241 01:20:53,730 --> 01:20:57,180 I don't know how podcasters will feel about that. I personally, I 1242 01:20:57,180 --> 01:21:00,930 love it, you know, I probably won't even be able to know what 1243 01:21:00,930 --> 01:21:02,730 people are saying somewhere else. 1244 01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:06,150 Dave Jones: Well, here's, here's how it would look, in practical 1245 01:21:06,150 --> 01:21:11,130 terms for a podcaster who's, who's doing something like this 1246 01:21:11,130 --> 01:21:13,620 with cross app comments, he was employing this with cross out 1247 01:21:13,620 --> 01:21:21,660 comments. There, they make a they, they make a post to their, 1248 01:21:22,140 --> 01:21:25,500 to their instance. So they're going to be, you know, they're 1249 01:21:25,500 --> 01:21:27,900 going to be in control of this and make a post to their local 1250 01:21:27,900 --> 01:21:34,110 instance. And they follow the, their own podcast on their 1251 01:21:34,110 --> 01:21:40,560 activity pub bridge. So then they they set that as the route 1252 01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:48,150 post on their episode. And now their, their copy of their copy 1253 01:21:48,150 --> 01:21:52,290 of that episode is now the route post. So now everything, they're 1254 01:21:52,620 --> 01:21:57,150 their income, they become the owner in effect of everything, 1255 01:21:57,540 --> 01:22:01,140 of everything, everything that's attached to that. So you are 1256 01:22:01,140 --> 01:22:04,500 attached to the AP bridge. Now. It's right there instance. 1257 01:22:04,530 --> 01:22:07,440 Adam Curry: So I'll see everything in my instance. 1258 01:22:08,670 --> 01:22:12,660 Dave Jones: Right. And you can moderate everything to because 1259 01:22:12,660 --> 01:22:13,680 you're there. It's your 1260 01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:17,730 Adam Curry: it's my instance. Right. Oh, interesting. Yeah, 1261 01:22:17,730 --> 01:22:20,760 Dave Jones: that everything is local thing was just an offhand 1262 01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:28,500 comment. It by bus Burleigh. But it really does. It's, it's the 1263 01:22:28,500 --> 01:22:32,070 answered to the way all of this needs to happen. Because 1264 01:22:33,090 --> 01:22:36,510 Adam Curry: the answer to the question that's been on my mind. 1265 01:22:39,990 --> 01:22:43,410 Dave Jones: Yeah, so you can't? Yeah, I think that's I think 1266 01:22:43,410 --> 01:22:46,410 that's the way we need to go. I think I'm just gonna bail out of 1267 01:22:46,500 --> 01:22:50,010 of applause. I think I don't think we need to be involved in 1268 01:22:50,010 --> 01:22:50,160 but 1269 01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:54,660 Adam Curry: this is this is actually, almost by definition, 1270 01:22:54,660 --> 01:22:58,470 this also solves the solves everything this solves all the 1271 01:22:58,470 --> 01:23:02,130 problems we had with cross app comments. Granted, it's, it's 1272 01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:05,460 quote unquote, limited to activity pub. But I think 1273 01:23:05,460 --> 01:23:09,510 activity Pub is one of the most important technologies, cross 1274 01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:12,930 application technologies that has ever been developed in my 1275 01:23:12,930 --> 01:23:13,590 lifetime. 1276 01:23:14,490 --> 01:23:19,950 Dave Jones: A fully agree and I think if we if we do things 1277 01:23:19,950 --> 01:23:25,830 right, I think that RSS and a to me RSS and activity pub, or 1278 01:23:26,850 --> 01:23:30,270 native bedfellows, I think they are complementary to one 1279 01:23:30,270 --> 01:23:34,110 another. And I think that we can sort of glue these things 1280 01:23:34,110 --> 01:23:36,870 together in a way that's pretty kick ass. 1281 01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:40,110 Adam Curry: Man, I love it. I'm sure 1282 01:23:41,370 --> 01:23:44,400 Dave Jones: that because because you met imagine, so what, here's 1283 01:23:44,430 --> 01:23:50,460 because the next step, the next step beyond this is, you know, 1284 01:23:50,490 --> 01:23:55,650 is putting things into your feed that you want to be expressed in 1285 01:23:55,650 --> 01:24:01,440 activity pub. So the feed is the source of truth, that activity 1286 01:24:01,440 --> 01:24:05,160 pub bridge will just express the truth things that are in your 1287 01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:10,320 feed. Yeah. To in a way that makes sense to activity pub. So 1288 01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:18,690 if you have, like, for instance, we there's a, in the, in the 1289 01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:23,730 social interact tag, you have that, that notion of a user 1290 01:24:23,730 --> 01:24:27,090 account, you know, where it's like, you know, what's your user 1291 01:24:27,090 --> 01:24:32,430 account? Well, that that can pass through, right? And now you 1292 01:24:32,430 --> 01:24:38,850 get now you get mentioned in there, or you become like when 1293 01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:42,390 it's like okay, you now you're the owner of this feed and 1294 01:24:42,390 --> 01:24:44,670 you're in that's being expressed, so now you could do a 1295 01:24:44,670 --> 01:24:46,380 rel equals me. Yes. 1296 01:24:46,410 --> 01:24:49,830 Adam Curry: Your site, your ownership right there. Oh, man, 1297 01:24:49,830 --> 01:24:49,980 this 1298 01:24:50,190 --> 01:24:51,270 Dave Jones: ownership. You know, I 1299 01:24:51,270 --> 01:24:53,160 Adam Curry: think the kids call this based. 1300 01:24:54,150 --> 01:24:57,120 Dave Jones: Is this. This is that's what the kids are saying 1301 01:24:57,120 --> 01:24:59,400 it is this. AP is based Hey, 1302 01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:01,530 Adam Curry: you want it take a little breather and play a song 1303 01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,170 you did say you missed that on the last show so 1304 01:25:04,170 --> 01:25:05,250 Dave Jones: yeah brought love the song. 1305 01:25:05,340 --> 01:25:12,090 Adam Curry: Yes this is a new a new hotshot on the scene is it's 1306 01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:17,820 a yet again a young woman in the in the arena of Ainsley Costello 1307 01:25:18,210 --> 01:25:18,720 and she's 1308 01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:20,580 Dave Jones: skipping all the issues skipping all the bases no 1309 01:25:20,580 --> 01:25:20,760 this 1310 01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:23,670 Adam Curry: is not the skipping all the bases girl this is Abby 1311 01:25:23,670 --> 01:25:30,870 Muir and mu IR. She's from Sweden Sweden, and the song 1312 01:25:30,870 --> 01:25:34,290 starts off right away so I will kick it in just a minute if 1313 01:25:34,290 --> 01:25:36,750 you're listening on the split kit you can boost if this thing 1314 01:25:36,750 --> 01:25:41,550 and curio caster and what does I think just fountain and podcast 1315 01:25:41,550 --> 01:25:45,030 guru they do live boosts now as well with value time split thank 1316 01:25:45,060 --> 01:25:49,890 you thanks so this is the song aptly titled Stockholm 1317 01:25:56,430 --> 01:26:05,400 Unknown: to do that for me I was so stuck just tell me love me 1318 01:26:06,090 --> 01:26:11,400 came to play Amina was your 1319 01:26:22,770 --> 01:26:23,820 calling you 1320 01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:58,230 your screen things are saying and I'm over my head in time 1321 01:26:58,230 --> 01:27:07,410 that I spent but again you could live with your 1322 01:27:16,890 --> 01:27:17,550 alpha 1323 01:27:39,900 --> 01:27:40,740 gold 1324 01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:48,720 Gold 1325 01:28:57,240 --> 01:29:00,060 Adam Curry: Now tell me that song didn't open up 1326 01:29:01,170 --> 01:29:02,100 Dave Jones: that's a recipe 1327 01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:05,760 Adam Curry: she reminds me Taylor She reminds me of it was 1328 01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:10,680 the chicks name Dora remember Dora think she was German Dora 1329 01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:13,620 she had kind of those songs would just start off like a 1330 01:29:18,390 --> 01:29:21,270 Dave Jones: backhand just bait you in and get your backhand 1331 01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:27,450 Adam Curry: exactly exactly your Stockholm yeah everybody and 1332 01:29:27,450 --> 01:29:32,160 that will of course hit the podcast index dot top chart what 1333 01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:32,580 are we up to? 1334 01:29:33,450 --> 01:29:34,560 Dave Jones: isn't on the chart yet? 1335 01:29:35,310 --> 01:29:39,660 Adam Curry: Let me see we are today 129 With the top 2020 29 1336 01:29:39,690 --> 01:29:43,500 Oh April in the Wolfers top of the chart today. Look at like 1337 01:29:43,830 --> 01:29:46,470 Stockholm is number six. Okay, 1338 01:29:46,470 --> 01:29:50,730 Dave Jones: we'll just drag that one up. Yeah. La sugar. 1339 01:29:51,210 --> 01:29:54,270 Adam Curry: Yeah, I played la sugar. I played la sugar the 1340 01:29:54,270 --> 01:29:59,250 other day. And Marina Earth is also very cool. This I love the 1341 01:29:59,250 --> 01:30:01,980 wow I can't believe Wind man got some plays. 1342 01:30:02,610 --> 01:30:05,640 Dave Jones: Yeah, that's excess pretty red 111 booth. Yeah, 1343 01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:06,090 that's 1344 01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:09,630 Adam Curry: for events, events, events, events, events events. 1345 01:30:10,140 --> 01:30:13,710 Very cool. Very, very cool there the value versus alive and 1346 01:30:13,710 --> 01:30:16,380 kicking people alive and kicking out 1347 01:30:16,620 --> 01:30:18,030 Dave Jones: now available on breeze 1348 01:30:19,980 --> 01:30:22,800 Adam Curry: saw that Andrew grommets? PWA was boosting? 1349 01:30:23,970 --> 01:30:27,420 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. I don't think people. Can you explain 1350 01:30:27,420 --> 01:30:30,930 who Andrew Gromit is because there was confusion. There was 1351 01:30:30,930 --> 01:30:33,750 confusion, Sam and James did not know who he was, 1352 01:30:33,780 --> 01:30:36,120 Adam Curry: Oh, my God, Andrew, but they should have Andrew 1353 01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:39,840 Grumman on their show. Andrew Grumman was one of the first 1354 01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:44,370 guys to show up when I started daily source code and put out 1355 01:30:44,370 --> 01:30:51,840 the the apple script. And he came in and I think he was part 1356 01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:56,070 of the iPod or lemon group. And they were building that. And 1357 01:30:56,070 --> 01:31:00,840 that was a Windows app. And Andrew was, you know, I kind of 1358 01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:04,110 a lead developer. I mean, I don't It's so fuzzy. For me, I 1359 01:31:04,110 --> 01:31:07,170 don't really remember. But Andrew was such an important 1360 01:31:07,170 --> 01:31:09,960 part that when I started pod show, he was employee number 1361 01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:15,750 one. And brought him in and we did a lot of fun stuff together. 1362 01:31:16,050 --> 01:31:20,580 The Andrew is a great guy, and kind of you know, we we check in 1363 01:31:20,580 --> 01:31:22,890 from time to time and kind of lost track of him, then all of a 1364 01:31:22,890 --> 01:31:26,040 sudden he shows up. And he's interested in progressive web 1365 01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:28,770 apps. And so he's been building a whole progressive web app 1366 01:31:28,950 --> 01:31:33,120 system. He's a guy that I'm telling you, partners weekly 1367 01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:37,650 review. May I suggest Andrew grommet as a great guy to have 1368 01:31:37,650 --> 01:31:42,510 on for little before the a piece of the podcast history that has 1369 01:31:42,630 --> 01:31:43,830 been poorly told. 1370 01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:48,840 Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Good. And he, and he was around, I 1371 01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:52,230 remember him, because he also bounced around a little bit with 1372 01:31:52,230 --> 01:31:55,260 the Dave Winer circles and that kind of thing. And I remember 1373 01:31:55,260 --> 01:31:59,910 him from that I met him later. Just through, you know, chats 1374 01:31:59,910 --> 01:32:03,870 and stuff like that, but I didn't realize that he had been 1375 01:32:03,870 --> 01:32:05,220 with you and Pasha. Yeah, 1376 01:32:05,250 --> 01:32:07,170 Adam Curry: yeah, he was the first guy hired. I'm pretty sure 1377 01:32:07,170 --> 01:32:09,330 he was number one. Yep. 1378 01:32:10,830 --> 01:32:13,140 Dave Jones: Let me say one more thing about the bridge, check it 1379 01:32:13,140 --> 01:32:20,070 to the bridge. The so the way the formatting looks right now. 1380 01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:27,870 On the posts, if anybody would like to tackle making that look 1381 01:32:27,870 --> 01:32:30,990 better, because clearly, I mean, as I've said, 1000 times I'm not 1382 01:32:30,990 --> 01:32:34,620 a designer, I don't know how to do very good at this. If you 1383 01:32:34,620 --> 01:32:40,200 want to, if you if you can, if you can take because there's 1384 01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:45,420 formatting issues here like title and description that gets 1385 01:32:45,420 --> 01:32:51,180 truncated and there's just, it's just kind of messy. And I would 1386 01:32:51,180 --> 01:32:53,610 make I would like to make it look good. 1387 01:32:53,670 --> 01:32:55,800 Adam Curry: Is there a place they can do a PR? 1388 01:32:58,230 --> 01:33:00,960 Dave Jones: Well, yeah, you could, you could do wouldn't be 1389 01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:04,920 a really, you'd have to know Russ to do PR, but you could do 1390 01:33:04,950 --> 01:33:05,190 so 1391 01:33:05,190 --> 01:33:07,590 Adam Curry: problem. I know. Ross. Oh, that's right. That's 1392 01:33:08,460 --> 01:33:09,360 Dave Jones: right. You're good. You're 1393 01:33:10,890 --> 01:33:12,420 Adam Curry: dead man now. Okay. 1394 01:33:12,450 --> 01:33:14,910 Dave Jones: All right. So you just send your changes to Adam 1395 01:33:14,910 --> 01:33:20,790 how to do a PR on the reef. And But yeah, if you if you send it 1396 01:33:20,790 --> 01:33:23,940 as like an issue or something like that in the in the bridge 1397 01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:27,600 repo, just what it Yeah, just make it look good. And then 1398 01:33:27,750 --> 01:33:30,660 because there's a limit of what happens, there's a limited set 1399 01:33:30,660 --> 01:33:37,980 of of HTML that Mastodon supports. So if you take as a 1400 01:33:37,980 --> 01:33:40,770 boy, whatever comes out of the show notes has to be sort of 1401 01:33:40,770 --> 01:33:44,580 like morphed into this acceptable HTML in a way that 1402 01:33:44,580 --> 01:33:45,000 doesn't. 1403 01:33:45,090 --> 01:33:48,660 Adam Curry: Oh, that's gross. That's always tough with the 1404 01:33:48,690 --> 01:33:51,780 beef. Right? Yeah. That's always difficult to make that look. 1405 01:33:51,810 --> 01:33:56,130 That's one of the main problems all the all the websites have, 1406 01:33:56,160 --> 01:34:00,330 like pod page, I think struggles with that all the time. How do I 1407 01:34:00,330 --> 01:34:03,180 take what someone just jacked into their feed and make it 1408 01:34:03,180 --> 01:34:03,870 usable? 1409 01:34:04,500 --> 01:34:05,880 Dave Jones: Yeah. And when it's coming out of freedom 1410 01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:10,860 controller, it's being mailed right? In that HTML. 1411 01:34:11,130 --> 01:34:12,300 Adam Curry: It's beautiful. It's beautiful. 1412 01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:17,070 Dave Jones: chop and drop. I mean, so like, and I know, one 1413 01:34:17,070 --> 01:34:20,130 thing I know about designers, web designers, is they love to 1414 01:34:20,130 --> 01:34:23,310 show their chops. So why not throw it out there and say, hey, 1415 01:34:23,310 --> 01:34:25,290 if somebody wants to make this look good, everybody's like, Oh, 1416 01:34:25,290 --> 01:34:27,180 yeah, yeah, the revenue hands. 1417 01:34:27,540 --> 01:34:29,610 Adam Curry: I just wanted to bring one quick thing up because 1418 01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:33,120 on pod news, weekly review, Sam Sethi had what was going to be a 1419 01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:37,800 rant and then it turned into a tisk tisk. So British thing, and 1420 01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:40,500 he had kind of a backwards way of promoting the idea of 1421 01:34:40,500 --> 01:34:46,770 activity streams. Which, I mean, it actually made me go back and 1422 01:34:46,770 --> 01:34:50,970 look again at the activity stream spec or from the activity 1423 01:34:50,970 --> 01:34:57,690 streams working group. And he really seems to want this. But 1424 01:34:57,690 --> 01:35:02,010 the way he brought it was kind of odd. because he said he hates 1425 01:35:02,730 --> 01:35:06,300 the idea of which is I'm gonna just on the opposite opposite 1426 01:35:06,300 --> 01:35:10,830 side of this, of people adding services with a split in the 1427 01:35:10,830 --> 01:35:15,270 value block. And which was interesting because he accused 1428 01:35:15,270 --> 01:35:20,580 me of having 25 splits, which I don't I think my max is 10. But 1429 01:35:20,610 --> 01:35:25,800 it came from what Spurlock is doing with Opie three. And I'm 1430 01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:29,940 not doing so Sam wants it to be activity streams that's shared 1431 01:35:29,940 --> 01:35:33,270 with everybody. And I don't know, I mean, maybe I'm just 1432 01:35:33,270 --> 01:35:35,610 misunderstanding activity streams and seems like it's 1433 01:35:35,610 --> 01:35:39,000 something all the apps would have to implement it what I love 1434 01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:44,940 so much about the value block is I can add a service in there. 1435 01:35:44,940 --> 01:35:48,780 It's like it's I called the API for podcasters. I'm an idiot. I 1436 01:35:48,780 --> 01:35:51,990 have no idea what how an API works. I mean, obviously, I'm a 1437 01:35:51,990 --> 01:35:56,880 rust expert, but I don't know how, you know, API's? Oh, auth, 1438 01:35:56,880 --> 01:36:01,920 all that stuff. If I just want to add a service where, okay, so 1439 01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:06,750 it's, it shows up and fountain Fountain has a way of surfacing 1440 01:36:07,410 --> 01:36:11,400 booster grams, I add the boost bot. Now, I don't see it unless 1441 01:36:11,400 --> 01:36:16,080 there's some problem with adding splits that way. I mean, to me, 1442 01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:19,860 it's the way the whole system is supposed to work. I'm just like, 1443 01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:27,390 Spurlock gets paid for a service that I enjoy having. Now, the, 1444 01:36:27,540 --> 01:36:30,000 in fact, when I send it to fountain, it goes to my own 1445 01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:33,420 account, I think or whatever, I bet it doesn't even matter. I 1446 01:36:33,420 --> 01:36:37,680 want everybody I want to share, I want to share in all of the 1447 01:36:37,740 --> 01:36:41,580 all of the value. And it just seemed I just want to make sure 1448 01:36:41,580 --> 01:36:45,570 that I'm on the right track here. I love the idea of adding 1449 01:36:45,570 --> 01:36:49,020 services and things that come along with a split in the value 1450 01:36:49,020 --> 01:36:53,040 box, because it's literally a way for me to pay for a service 1451 01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:57,840 no matter what it is. And with activity streams, I just don't 1452 01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:01,440 see how that how you can have that value. Someone has to run a 1453 01:37:01,440 --> 01:37:05,310 server somewhere. And then surface activity streams that 1454 01:37:05,310 --> 01:37:10,620 show me I don't know what I've done. I don't know this. I love 1455 01:37:10,650 --> 01:37:13,980 I love what's happening here. Am I on the wrong track? Am I 1456 01:37:13,980 --> 01:37:15,300 seeing this the wrong way? 1457 01:37:16,620 --> 01:37:18,900 Dave Jones: I don't I don't notice this. I didn't hear it. 1458 01:37:18,900 --> 01:37:24,510 I'm not sure. What. Yeah, I don't know how to frame. I don't 1459 01:37:24,510 --> 01:37:26,040 know what the framing is, you know, 1460 01:37:26,640 --> 01:37:28,470 Adam Curry: that's what was weird. I think he I think he 1461 01:37:28,470 --> 01:37:31,080 wants to promote activity streams. But he was doing it by 1462 01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:35,970 saying it's dumb to use splits for this. It is great to use 1463 01:37:35,970 --> 01:37:36,930 splits for this 1464 01:37:38,010 --> 01:37:42,180 Dave Jones: was my mind show. Why? Because you get him on the 1465 01:37:42,180 --> 01:37:43,410 show. Let's 1466 01:37:43,410 --> 01:37:45,330 Adam Curry: get him on that he wants to be on the show. We 1467 01:37:45,330 --> 01:37:46,290 should get him on the show. 1468 01:37:46,830 --> 01:37:48,630 Dave Jones: Let's get him on the show and hash it out. Because we 1469 01:37:48,660 --> 01:37:51,990 maybe there's something maybe there's something we're missing. 1470 01:37:51,990 --> 01:37:56,340 I mean, at I guess the only thing I can think of that would 1471 01:37:56,340 --> 01:38:05,100 be a downside to the split thing as a way to enable an API. Is 1472 01:38:05,130 --> 01:38:09,510 that sort of you're kind of limited to the sort of minimum 1473 01:38:09,510 --> 01:38:15,030 you can do so I mean, like, you can't really go. It's hard to go 1474 01:38:15,030 --> 01:38:20,010 below 1%. I guess for some shows that could end up being your 1475 01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:22,920 sort of overpaying? I don't know. 1476 01:38:23,430 --> 01:38:26,280 Adam Curry: No, it wasn't about that. But he just felt it's not 1477 01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:29,400 a smart way to use the value block. And I'm like, that's 1478 01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:30,810 exactly what it's for. 1479 01:38:31,710 --> 01:38:33,630 Dave Jones: Oh, Nathan says the other factor he brought up is 1480 01:38:33,630 --> 01:38:40,470 listener permission to share that data. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I 1481 01:38:40,470 --> 01:38:44,130 guess I could see. Well, as you're sort of passing through 1482 01:38:44,130 --> 01:38:44,250 to 1483 01:38:44,280 --> 01:38:47,580 Adam Curry: no one or no one seems to have complained about, 1484 01:38:47,760 --> 01:38:52,650 you know, booster gram showing up on fountain. People seem to 1485 01:38:52,650 --> 01:38:56,820 see it as a feature. I think we're I think we're beyond that. 1486 01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:04,380 Yeah, I don't I don't see. I mean, it's really anonymous. To 1487 01:39:04,380 --> 01:39:06,420 me really is no 1488 01:39:06,780 --> 01:39:08,220 Dave Jones: way there's no RPS or any. 1489 01:39:08,700 --> 01:39:10,560 Adam Curry: I mean, that's that's, I mean, that's another 1490 01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:14,940 beauty of it. But no, I don't know, I think that we'll get him 1491 01:39:14,940 --> 01:39:17,310 on the show with us. Definitely get him on the show. Because and 1492 01:39:17,310 --> 01:39:21,330 I just must say, I love the new. I mean, now I go to OP three 1493 01:39:21,330 --> 01:39:24,300 like now I have a reason to take a look at this stuff. Yeah, I 1494 01:39:24,300 --> 01:39:28,140 don't care about how many people are or know accessing. 1495 01:39:28,620 --> 01:39:31,890 Impression ng downloading, listening, whatever, I don't 1496 01:39:31,890 --> 01:39:35,310 really don't care. Also, there was there was I think it was 1497 01:39:35,310 --> 01:39:39,210 something beautiful that happened the other day, when, 1498 01:39:40,410 --> 01:39:44,880 you know, I stream I stream my SATs to to all the podcasts and 1499 01:39:45,030 --> 01:39:48,840 I listened to pod news pod news every single day and I don't 1500 01:39:48,840 --> 01:39:52,230 think I skipped a single one. And yes, sometimes when I hear 1501 01:39:52,230 --> 01:39:55,140 the music change bumpers, you're probably like, okay, here comes 1502 01:39:55,140 --> 01:39:58,350 the ad and I'm done. But I may have my gloves on. I'm outside 1503 01:39:58,350 --> 01:40:05,520 and so And then I heard James had some copy about Hindenburg 1504 01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:09,540 and I'm a Hindenburg, customer, Hindenburg Pro. And there was 1505 01:40:09,540 --> 01:40:12,300 you know, and we were talking about the big knob and I lived 1506 01:40:12,300 --> 01:40:16,230 in the UK, I get the joke. And so I boosted I'm like, Hey, I'm 1507 01:40:16,230 --> 01:40:19,440 boosting for the big knob. And he sent that to the to his 1508 01:40:19,440 --> 01:40:22,800 advertiser. And the advertiser loved it, me. And they posted 1509 01:40:22,800 --> 01:40:25,350 on, I said, post that on Twitter, you know, I'll retweet 1510 01:40:25,350 --> 01:40:30,180 that. So it was kind of a fun crossover, where boosting, I 1511 01:40:30,180 --> 01:40:35,730 think, made enhanced, so the value for value enhanced, a 1512 01:40:35,730 --> 01:40:41,070 podcast that is inherently value for value and sponsored. So I 1513 01:40:41,070 --> 01:40:44,460 think we've just been talking about that advertiser also over 1514 01:40:44,460 --> 01:40:48,270 there. Yeah, you know, and I think that I happily sent my 1515 01:40:48,270 --> 01:40:52,140 money to James and whoever that goes to, but also to give 1516 01:40:52,140 --> 01:40:56,820 feedback on the ad. And that can be really can be really good. 1517 01:40:58,470 --> 01:41:02,730 Dave Jones: Yeah, that's, I think that's great. I mean, this 1518 01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:06,570 this, I think, I think people have to just become comfortable 1519 01:41:06,570 --> 01:41:11,850 with the fact that and when I say people, I mean, podcasters. 1520 01:41:12,150 --> 01:41:17,220 Think podcasters had to become comfortable with sort of opening 1521 01:41:17,670 --> 01:41:20,670 things up a little bit. I think things of this has been an issue 1522 01:41:20,670 --> 01:41:25,230 in the in the podcast world forever. Is that everybody's 1523 01:41:25,230 --> 01:41:30,240 super secretive. Nobody wants anybody to know their stuff. You 1524 01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:34,830 know, I mean, like, I mean, Chad F literally, you know, does our 1525 01:41:34,830 --> 01:41:39,780 books in the open on the you know, like, you know, on 1526 01:41:39,780 --> 01:41:40,740 Mastodon Yeah, we 1527 01:41:40,740 --> 01:41:43,050 Adam Curry: were gonna discuss that this show. I had that as a 1528 01:41:43,050 --> 01:41:46,740 to do item and we didn't. But here we are. Here we are. We're 1529 01:41:46,740 --> 01:41:48,930 discussing it now. Yeah, 1530 01:41:48,930 --> 01:41:53,460 Dave Jones: I mean, that's, that's the thing is you, when 1531 01:41:53,460 --> 01:41:58,200 you, when you sort of embrace me, no, but when you when you 1532 01:41:58,200 --> 01:42:03,840 embrace this idea that things are open. And you don't try to 1533 01:42:03,870 --> 01:42:08,640 be secretive about things and you let you let your audience 1534 01:42:08,640 --> 01:42:13,230 pass through to your sponsors or so to you know, or your 1535 01:42:13,230 --> 01:42:18,090 sponsors. I mean, like, I think everybody is just like 1536 01:42:18,090 --> 01:42:21,150 everybody, the world we live in now is just kind of suspicious. 1537 01:42:21,900 --> 01:42:25,350 And rightly so. Because you're you have, did you see the EU 1538 01:42:25,350 --> 01:42:30,090 thing with Margaret with the new Microsoft Outlook? No, no. Now, 1539 01:42:30,090 --> 01:42:32,910 this is not the this is not outlook.com. This is the desktop 1540 01:42:32,910 --> 01:42:38,520 installed version of Outlook. In the EU, now, they have to have a 1541 01:42:38,520 --> 01:42:42,930 disclosure about third party tracking. And there's a pop up 1542 01:42:42,930 --> 01:42:46,920 that happens on the desktop version of Outlook. A pop up 1543 01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:57,900 comes up and says Microsoft and 737/3 parties are based are 1544 01:42:57,900 --> 01:43:04,770 scraping your data for the advert for ad tracking. It's 1545 01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:06,750 based on that email 100. 1546 01:43:06,780 --> 01:43:10,230 Adam Curry: Oh, Outlook has to so outlook is disclosing that 1547 01:43:10,260 --> 01:43:11,310 they're tracking. 1548 01:43:11,970 --> 01:43:14,160 Dave Jones: Yes, they have to disclose to third parties 1549 01:43:14,160 --> 01:43:18,630 they're tracking in the 100. Yeah, it was it was it was like 1550 01:43:18,630 --> 01:43:24,300 737 different ad trackers. Search give me third parties. 1551 01:43:24,300 --> 01:43:27,150 Let me see if I can find this because it was That's insane. 1552 01:43:27,570 --> 01:43:30,030 This is the new version. Like I said, this is not 1553 01:43:30,060 --> 01:43:32,670 Adam Curry: where's this the rock? Did throt do an article on 1554 01:43:32,670 --> 01:43:33,750 this? He 1555 01:43:33,750 --> 01:43:36,600 Dave Jones: did? Yeah. Okay, here it is. Okay, I've got 1556 01:43:36,600 --> 01:43:37,080 screenshots, 1557 01:43:37,110 --> 01:43:41,580 Adam Curry: 172/3 parties process data, to store and or 1558 01:43:41,580 --> 01:43:44,400 access information on your device development. You're 1559 01:43:44,400 --> 01:43:45,750 paying for this products? 1560 01:43:46,350 --> 01:43:48,390 Dave Jones: Yes, you're installing a thing that you're 1561 01:43:48,390 --> 01:43:52,170 paying for through Office 365 subscription. That's crazy. It 1562 01:43:52,170 --> 01:43:55,650 says by clicking the All button you agree to the use of these 1563 01:43:55,650 --> 01:43:58,650 technologies and processing of your data for these purposes. 1564 01:44:00,450 --> 01:44:03,720 Yet, so many people 1565 01:44:03,750 --> 01:44:06,240 Adam Curry: think that anyone has a problem with their booster 1566 01:44:06,240 --> 01:44:06,630 gram. 1567 01:44:07,710 --> 01:44:10,530 Dave Jones: Right? This is why I'm saying becoming comfortable 1568 01:44:10,860 --> 01:44:15,300 becoming as a podcaster becoming more open and becoming a lot 1569 01:44:15,300 --> 01:44:19,860 more transparent. It just makes everybody more confident in who 1570 01:44:19,860 --> 01:44:24,270 you are and your character. When you can show that you're not 1571 01:44:24,690 --> 01:44:29,070 that you're not hiding anything. That's crazy. So then if you 1572 01:44:29,070 --> 01:44:34,140 have an ethic, it builds your legitimacy with your spa with it 1573 01:44:34,140 --> 01:44:38,340 makes people trust your if you're advertising based or 1574 01:44:38,340 --> 01:44:42,420 sponsorship based, I think that lens makes people even more 1575 01:44:42,420 --> 01:44:45,900 comfortable when you're when you're more open. Because 1576 01:44:45,900 --> 01:44:50,100 anything advertising based is just so inherently skeptical 1577 01:44:50,100 --> 01:44:50,550 these days. 1578 01:44:50,580 --> 01:44:53,160 Adam Curry: I mean, I can tell you from experience with no 1579 01:44:53,160 --> 01:44:57,120 agenda, you know from time to time, there's going to be 1580 01:44:57,120 --> 01:45:00,180 someone that shows up and says you're pretending that You're 1581 01:45:00,180 --> 01:45:04,950 poor and you're not okay? Because you know we have a very 1582 01:45:04,980 --> 01:45:08,340 blatant ask or like date, you want the show to keep going, you 1583 01:45:08,340 --> 01:45:12,240 got to support it. We also call everybody a producer. And we and 1584 01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:15,630 we we also credit people for other things time and talent, 1585 01:45:15,660 --> 01:45:18,720 not the treasure part. And from time to time, amazing wonder if 1586 01:45:18,720 --> 01:45:23,160 it's still around. There was a website, no agenda numbers.com 1587 01:45:23,250 --> 01:45:27,570 Let me see some guy went to the trouble of doing that. Too bad. 1588 01:45:27,570 --> 01:45:33,360 It's gone. And you know, and and this, this guy would count the 1589 01:45:33,360 --> 01:45:36,570 numbers and publish spreadsheets and look at all this cash. 1590 01:45:36,570 --> 01:45:40,530 They're making these people suck. A you know what, nobody 1591 01:45:40,530 --> 01:45:45,450 cared? Nobody cared. There was always care. No, no one nobody 1592 01:45:45,450 --> 01:45:49,710 cared. In the beginning. I like the kind of kind of weird but 1593 01:45:49,740 --> 01:45:53,580 nobody cared. Nobody is ever cared. They like and you know, 1594 01:45:53,580 --> 01:45:55,740 and people who care who thinks that's a problem, they don't 1595 01:45:55,740 --> 01:45:58,560 support it, that's fine. That's the that's the whole beauty of 1596 01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:03,510 it. It still is, hey, it took five, six years before. I mean, 1597 01:46:03,510 --> 01:46:06,120 I want to quit no agenda, Episode 100. I'm like, 1598 01:46:06,120 --> 01:46:08,460 literally, we had a good run, John, let's quit this thing. I'm 1599 01:46:08,460 --> 01:46:08,760 done. 1600 01:46:10,950 --> 01:46:16,590 Dave Jones: What, I've got this weird idea that if you if you 1601 01:46:16,590 --> 01:46:23,340 really love a podcast, you want you don't want the podcaster to 1602 01:46:23,340 --> 01:46:26,790 be struggling and barely scraping by every every episode. 1603 01:46:27,870 --> 01:46:33,900 You want them to see that it is worth their time. And it's a 1604 01:46:33,900 --> 01:46:37,890 rewarding experience financially for them. Or else, they're not 1605 01:46:37,890 --> 01:46:41,550 going to stick with it. If you really want it, you don't want 1606 01:46:41,670 --> 01:46:45,690 that you want the podcaster to be rewarded as much as you as 1607 01:46:45,690 --> 01:46:50,940 much as possible. And you know, like, for like us on with this 1608 01:46:50,940 --> 01:46:55,950 project. We said from the very beginning where this is all 1609 01:46:55,950 --> 01:46:59,400 about our the donations we receive, especially the PayPal 1610 01:46:59,400 --> 01:47:03,090 donations we receive on this show is all about building a war 1611 01:47:03,090 --> 01:47:09,540 chest because this there is people come and go in there is 1612 01:47:09,540 --> 01:47:12,960 going to be a time when donations are going to drop down 1613 01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:13,470 to nothing. 1614 01:47:13,500 --> 01:47:14,700 Adam Curry: And we're or when we die. 1615 01:47:16,830 --> 01:47:18,840 Dave Jones: One of those two, what's going 1616 01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:19,800 Adam Curry: to happen eventually, 1617 01:47:20,490 --> 01:47:27,330 Dave Jones: we in perfect example, a a $500 a month donor 1618 01:47:27,420 --> 01:47:31,380 this month, cancel their student canceled their donation. Oh, so 1619 01:47:31,650 --> 01:47:37,530 we did not wait. Yes, and we did not miss a beat because we have 1620 01:47:37,980 --> 01:47:43,410 saved all of that money, it costs us typically about $1,300 1621 01:47:43,410 --> 01:47:50,220 a month have to run everything that we run. And so that's we 1622 01:47:50,220 --> 01:47:55,230 just we just ditched the ln pay notes. So that saves us 450 a 1623 01:47:55,230 --> 01:48:01,140 month. So that that 500 that dropped off is going to is okay 1624 01:48:01,140 --> 01:48:02,640 we can we can eat it. And it 1625 01:48:02,640 --> 01:48:06,690 Adam Curry: might might add that you and I personally pay taxes 1626 01:48:06,750 --> 01:48:08,850 over the money that comes in even though we don't pay 1627 01:48:08,850 --> 01:48:09,600 ourselves. 1628 01:48:09,930 --> 01:48:13,380 Dave Jones: We do this because it cost me three grand last 1629 01:48:13,380 --> 01:48:13,800 because 1630 01:48:13,830 --> 01:48:16,170 Adam Curry: it costs money. We're not crying, but that 1631 01:48:16,200 --> 01:48:19,530 that's just how it works. You know, that's just what it is. 1632 01:48:19,560 --> 01:48:21,210 And we're happy. We're fine with that. 1633 01:48:21,810 --> 01:48:23,460 Dave Jones: And I'm scared of what is going to be this year. 1634 01:48:23,460 --> 01:48:26,130 But um, I'm hoping I did my math right? It's 1635 01:48:26,130 --> 01:48:29,490 Adam Curry: gonna be $500 less per month, that's for sure. If 1636 01:48:29,910 --> 01:48:31,980 Dave Jones: if under less so you know, because we're about to 1637 01:48:31,980 --> 01:48:34,200 have to do this. We're about to have to get my brother in law to 1638 01:48:34,200 --> 01:48:36,060 do our taxes for the LLC. And he and 1639 01:48:36,060 --> 01:48:38,820 Adam Curry: he doesn't work for every nice family member you got 1640 01:48:38,820 --> 01:48:39,450 there? No. 1641 01:48:40,680 --> 01:48:43,140 Dave Jones: Nobody, nobody. Nobody works for Nobody, not 1642 01:48:43,140 --> 01:48:49,410 even family. Except us. That because because we have what 1643 01:48:49,590 --> 01:48:53,400 what I've always wanted and you concur is to have at least five 1644 01:48:53,400 --> 01:48:55,740 years of cushion built up to where you have the donations 1645 01:48:55,740 --> 01:48:58,890 dropped to zero. Yeah, we could keep on truckin and not miss a 1646 01:48:58,890 --> 01:49:01,980 day for five years. Yeah, because we made a promise. And 1647 01:49:02,010 --> 01:49:06,690 in order to keep the promise, we have to have enough, just flat 1648 01:49:06,690 --> 01:49:11,520 out cash to pay the bills. So that's and we're on track. We're 1649 01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:14,490 not there yet. We can I think last time I checked, we could 1650 01:49:14,490 --> 01:49:22,170 run for about 18 months. Yeah, yeah. Two years, roughly in that 1651 01:49:22,170 --> 01:49:22,710 timeframe. 1652 01:49:22,740 --> 01:49:25,410 Adam Curry: And all the stats stay on the node. And if you 1653 01:49:25,410 --> 01:49:29,730 need liquidity, let us know now, but happy to open up a nice fat 1654 01:49:29,730 --> 01:49:30,480 channel to you. 1655 01:49:31,470 --> 01:49:34,320 Dave Jones: But um, I'm totally cool with Chad F doing that. I 1656 01:49:34,320 --> 01:49:39,600 think it's great because it it shows. It shows I mean, it's 1657 01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,990 pretty accurate. I mean, that's his math is pretty spot on as 1658 01:49:42,990 --> 01:49:47,160 far as I can think he is. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, yeah, I think 1659 01:49:47,160 --> 01:49:51,270 it's great. I think I think just this, this sort of like spirit 1660 01:49:51,270 --> 01:49:55,830 of openness. I think I think the podcast industry as a whole 1661 01:49:56,100 --> 01:49:59,190 would benefit from that there's way too much secrecy and going 1662 01:49:59,190 --> 01:50:02,670 on. So Debt stats and everything is just oh, that's falling 1663 01:50:02,670 --> 01:50:04,890 apart. It is it is, 1664 01:50:04,980 --> 01:50:09,270 Adam Curry: you know, like, they never really needed the IAB. The 1665 01:50:09,270 --> 01:50:12,690 advertisers aren't stupid. They have spreadsheets they know who 1666 01:50:12,690 --> 01:50:16,830 know whose numbers are what and they discounted. Your numbers or 1667 01:50:16,830 --> 01:50:21,210 X, Y or Z. I know what they are. So the IAB is just a farce. 1668 01:50:23,040 --> 01:50:24,480 Dave Jones: Yeah, basically it is. 1669 01:50:25,830 --> 01:50:29,010 Adam Curry: Let's thank a few people. I'm going to thank the 1670 01:50:29,010 --> 01:50:32,550 people who came in with live booths pod home 30,000 SATs. 1671 01:50:32,550 --> 01:50:38,670 Thanks, brother. Very nice. The Dutch guys up late. Sam Sethi. 1672 01:50:38,700 --> 01:50:41,910 10,000 SATs glad to hear that REL equals me is now part of the 1673 01:50:41,910 --> 01:50:45,000 conversation activity streams will be soon I hope we need to 1674 01:50:45,000 --> 01:50:48,000 discuss this smiley face. Yes, we will. We'll have you on Sam. 1675 01:50:48,540 --> 01:50:52,830 Blueberry. 7777 Please send good vibes decided on top of 1676 01:50:52,830 --> 01:50:55,860 everything going on right now that this was the weekend to get 1677 01:50:55,860 --> 01:50:57,390 a freedom controller going? 1678 01:50:58,380 --> 01:50:59,340 Dave Jones: No, you good luck. 1679 01:51:01,320 --> 01:51:04,710 Adam Curry: Brother. Okay. All right. Well, 1680 01:51:04,740 --> 01:51:06,720 Dave Jones: you're on you're on my prayer list. Yes. 1681 01:51:07,890 --> 01:51:11,190 Adam Curry: Top of the prayer list, blueberry. Dred Scott 1682 01:51:11,190 --> 01:51:17,730 4567. Don't cross the streams. Lol. Chad F with 333 This is the 1683 01:51:17,730 --> 01:51:21,030 TIC tock model keep the tribes separate. Yes, exactly. He came 1684 01:51:21,030 --> 01:51:24,450 up with the same conclusion I did. Another 4567 from Dred 1685 01:51:24,450 --> 01:51:30,120 Scott says pew pew pew pew pew another 4567 Sass from Dred 1686 01:51:30,120 --> 01:51:32,670 Scott testing que pues not hearing them on the live stream 1687 01:51:32,670 --> 01:51:38,070 Yeah. What I opened up the pew pew pew pew and then he comes in 1688 01:51:38,070 --> 01:51:43,170 with 45,678 Dred Scott going crazy says don't get your finger 1689 01:51:43,170 --> 01:51:48,510 stuck in your nostril bridge go podcasting. I will get you got 1690 01:51:48,510 --> 01:51:54,240 it. Blueberry with a long, long note here sent on pod verse 1691 01:51:54,240 --> 01:51:58,140 333 33. I'm fairly confident by the end of tonight I'll have a 1692 01:51:58,140 --> 01:52:03,120 lighting fixture that will shine when a boost comes in. Of course 1693 01:52:03,180 --> 01:52:07,620 I love this course picked up a sick little USB to DMX box from 1694 01:52:07,620 --> 01:52:11,370 my computer been salivating at the idea of making a big ass led 1695 01:52:11,370 --> 01:52:15,840 neon sign that is pixel mappable for the best music 2.0 homegrown 1696 01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:19,140 hits homegrown hits as the absolute tits jacked follow that 1697 01:52:19,140 --> 01:52:22,320 sweet homegrown flavor it would be set to build them a giant 1698 01:52:22,320 --> 01:52:25,410 lighted sign that changes effects based off of booster 1699 01:52:25,410 --> 01:52:29,850 mounts. Dude, I want one of those. I'll buy one when I want 1700 01:52:29,850 --> 01:52:34,140 one in my studio. I just want that pew pew I want to change 1701 01:52:34,590 --> 01:52:37,560 with the numbers whatever I love that idea. Was 1702 01:52:37,560 --> 01:52:39,480 Dave Jones: DMX is it what is that? 1703 01:52:39,810 --> 01:52:45,090 Adam Curry: I don't know. Okay. Oh, I think DMX is a lighting 1704 01:52:45,090 --> 01:52:46,230 protocol. It's like 1705 01:52:47,580 --> 01:52:50,340 Dave Jones: okay, like to control RGB stuff. Yeah, I 1706 01:52:50,340 --> 01:52:52,740 Adam Curry: don't know if it's RGB but it's DJs use it to 1707 01:52:52,770 --> 01:52:56,910 control lighting rigs, I think. Okay. Yeah, it's kind of like 1708 01:52:56,910 --> 01:53:02,580 MIDI MIDI for for lighting lights. Yeah. Let me see what 1709 01:53:02,580 --> 01:53:06,330 else we have here. I'm scrolling through a lot of a lot of 1710 01:53:06,330 --> 01:53:11,040 different boosts here. No, I hit the limiter. So that's it for 1711 01:53:11,040 --> 01:53:12,660 the live boosts and you're up. 1712 01:53:14,190 --> 01:53:18,450 Dave Jones: We've got we've 01 off papers this week. Good work. 1713 01:53:18,450 --> 01:53:23,010 Everybody goes apropos to the discussion we 1714 01:53:23,310 --> 01:53:25,800 Adam Curry: There you go. Thank God we have a little kitty. 1715 01:53:26,850 --> 01:53:30,840 Dave Jones: That's right. That dip into the pot James Crillon 1716 01:53:31,020 --> 01:53:34,320 satchel Richards through fountain he says wait a sec. 1717 01:53:34,710 --> 01:53:38,040 Those activity pub postings mean that every podcast can get 1718 01:53:38,040 --> 01:53:41,820 crosstab comments if there isn't even a social interact then just 1719 01:53:41,820 --> 01:53:45,330 use the posting that's correct James Yeah, the red and it's 1720 01:53:45,660 --> 01:53:46,020 tribal 1721 01:53:46,050 --> 01:53:50,280 Adam Curry: that yes, that mean when I saw that I went Oh, holy 1722 01:53:50,280 --> 01:53:52,650 crap. That is very smart. 1723 01:53:53,820 --> 01:53:57,540 Dave Jones: That up in 96 was a lot of things actually. That'd 1724 01:53:57,540 --> 01:54:01,950 be 1984 4000 SATs through fancy says last 10% listener boost. 1725 01:54:03,630 --> 01:54:07,950 Oh, he made it past the 90% mark. Thank you. I'll be mere 1726 01:54:07,950 --> 01:54:12,600 mortals podcast as everybody Kyron 2223 foundations will know 1727 01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:16,560 $30 million marketer but I would like to claim the V for V 1728 01:54:16,560 --> 01:54:20,730 consultant title. Courtney finally just released our Convo 1729 01:54:20,760 --> 01:54:23,190 on podcast bestie recorded six months ago 1730 01:54:23,220 --> 01:54:23,730 Unknown: yes 1731 01:54:23,730 --> 01:54:26,580 Dave Jones: I didn't talk about V for V music much would be 1732 01:54:26,580 --> 01:54:29,100 great to stream boost that episode to give her a taste of 1733 01:54:29,100 --> 01:54:32,670 authentic peer to peer real time no dodgy statistic feedback. 1734 01:54:34,650 --> 01:54:36,990 Adam Curry: So we so we got to stream that episode by the way. 1735 01:54:36,990 --> 01:54:41,130 I just got 2000 from from Barry from pod home he says it seems 1736 01:54:41,130 --> 01:54:43,650 you still have me in the splits. That's a mistake. Probably 1737 01:54:43,650 --> 01:54:49,500 right. Yep. It was. may enjoy a bonus. Bonus. bonus for you 1738 01:54:49,500 --> 01:54:51,360 brother bonus. Yeah. 1739 01:54:51,450 --> 01:54:53,640 Dave Jones: Kudos to Barry for saying that because he could 1740 01:54:53,640 --> 01:54:55,920 have just remained silent. He may. He may have stayed in there 1741 01:54:55,920 --> 01:54:56,550 for weeks. 1742 01:54:58,260 --> 01:55:01,500 Adam Curry: No, that's the next guest would have changed that 1743 01:55:01,500 --> 01:55:02,940 but yeah, that was my mistake 1744 01:55:03,090 --> 01:55:06,360 Dave Jones: History podcast bestie let's see. Oh, here it 1745 01:55:06,360 --> 01:55:11,190 is. Yeah, okay, I'm downloading that right now. I got to see 1746 01:55:11,700 --> 01:55:14,640 what else we got here we got 1701 Oh, that's Mike Dale's 1747 01:55:14,640 --> 01:55:19,830 gotta be Yep. Mike now through cast Matic he says hi from the 1748 01:55:19,830 --> 01:55:25,440 snow globe of Michigan well hello from the freezer of 1749 01:55:25,440 --> 01:55:26,130 Birmingham Alabama. 1750 01:55:26,160 --> 01:55:27,570 Adam Curry: Yeah chilly in the hill country. 1751 01:55:28,770 --> 01:55:31,710 Dave Jones: Balderdash boy is 33 333 through fountain he says 1752 01:55:31,710 --> 01:55:33,930 thank you for all your help and all the great info weekly go 1753 01:55:33,930 --> 01:55:36,570 podcasting sir west of beer bourbon and molar. 1754 01:55:38,190 --> 01:55:39,420 Adam Curry: Yeah, those guys are cool. 1755 01:55:40,320 --> 01:55:47,040 Dave Jones: Yeah, good guys. Sir Brown of London 21 948 through 1756 01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:50,580 cast magic is is remember what I'm aleck Google Facebook Apple 1757 01:55:50,580 --> 01:55:51,300 did to you. 1758 01:55:54,450 --> 01:55:57,660 Adam Curry: Always Always bring what does that noise? 1759 01:55:58,710 --> 01:56:02,580 Dave Jones: And Emma like that's the Jewish Yeah, the 1760 01:56:02,640 --> 01:56:07,890 Adam Curry: the enemy. Family. Enemies. Yes, we got it. 1761 01:56:08,430 --> 01:56:13,740 Dave Jones: Thank you, Brian. Unite Gomez 3219 through pod 1762 01:56:13,740 --> 01:56:17,310 versus boosting from the Basque Country. Now what is Basque? 1763 01:56:17,340 --> 01:56:18,240 Basque? That's 1764 01:56:18,510 --> 01:56:24,210 Adam Curry: in Spain. Boom. So the Basque Country. Your 1765 01:56:24,210 --> 01:56:26,820 Dave Jones: name? You're near Albert Alberto. I guess from 1766 01:56:26,820 --> 01:56:29,400 maurices.com. Give me Give a shout good lunch. 1767 01:56:30,780 --> 01:56:33,960 Adam Curry: Very, very first sentence and 10,000 SATs back to 1768 01:56:33,960 --> 01:56:37,560 us. Didn't have to do that. And to do that. 1769 01:56:38,400 --> 01:56:43,680 Dave Jones: Yeah. Go buy a beer. source D send a 1701. As our 1770 01:56:43,680 --> 01:56:46,320 buddy Archie says only a technician don't think I can get 1771 01:56:46,350 --> 01:56:50,670 on 20. Get on 20 in. Say 1772 01:56:50,670 --> 01:56:52,230 Adam Curry: again? Oh, 20 meters? 1773 01:56:52,530 --> 01:56:53,010 Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay. 1774 01:56:53,040 --> 01:56:56,880 Adam Curry: No is the tech wait as a technician? You can? I 1775 01:56:56,880 --> 01:56:59,910 think you know, the 120 meters. But yet, you may not be able to 1776 01:56:59,910 --> 01:57:05,460 do I forget this a ham radio talk? I'm not sure exactly 1777 01:57:05,460 --> 01:57:08,640 anymore. But you can look it up. But I think you can go on 20 1778 01:57:08,640 --> 01:57:12,840 meters, but not like at some others you can't go on. But you 1779 01:57:12,840 --> 01:57:15,030 want to get general just go for general, you could 1780 01:57:15,030 --> 01:57:17,490 Dave Jones: do it. How big is a 20 meter antenna is pretty big, 1781 01:57:17,490 --> 01:57:20,610 Adam Curry: right? Well, a full length antenna will be 20 1782 01:57:20,610 --> 01:57:28,680 meters. 60 feet. Yeah, that's huge. But I have an n fed Zeplin 1783 01:57:28,680 --> 01:57:34,530 antenna, which is just a wire as an end fed zip baby, a wire 1784 01:57:34,530 --> 01:57:39,750 would that transformer on one end. And it's about it's 1785 01:57:39,750 --> 01:57:43,440 probably about 20 feet, something like that. I mean, you 1786 01:57:43,440 --> 01:57:46,830 got I got an antenna tuner, you can take a clothes hanger. And 1787 01:57:46,830 --> 01:57:48,570 you know what the bet the coolest antenna is a loop 1788 01:57:48,570 --> 01:57:53,340 antenna. What does that so a loop antenna is literally a loop 1789 01:57:53,340 --> 01:57:57,510 of wire with a loop of wire inside of it. And I'm going to 1790 01:57:57,510 --> 01:58:01,260 have a big capacitor on the front and you tune the antenna 1791 01:58:01,260 --> 01:58:05,760 with that. And those things are amazing. You can have it inside 1792 01:58:05,760 --> 01:58:08,940 and you can reach all over the world. But it's very, I mean, 1793 01:58:08,970 --> 01:58:10,950 the minute you move to a different frequency, you have to 1794 01:58:10,950 --> 01:58:15,600 retune, it's very, very critical in the tuning. But loop antennas 1795 01:58:15,630 --> 01:58:18,960 have been you can go back in history, World War One and World 1796 01:58:18,960 --> 01:58:23,460 War Two. All the wars that they use them in the military loop 1797 01:58:23,460 --> 01:58:26,190 antennas are just amazing what they can do. 1798 01:58:27,690 --> 01:58:30,180 Dave Jones: So it's so it's a 20 meter antenna, but it just in 1799 01:58:30,180 --> 01:58:30,750 the loop. 1800 01:58:32,460 --> 01:58:37,140 Adam Curry: It's the loop can be pretty small. Look at chameleon 1801 01:58:37,140 --> 01:58:41,850 loop chameleon loop they sell and it's basically just a loop 1802 01:58:41,850 --> 01:58:45,060 wire with a loop on the inside and in a big box. And that box 1803 01:58:45,060 --> 01:58:50,040 has a huge capacitor. air gapped and you just tune it and you're 1804 01:58:50,040 --> 01:58:50,640 good to go. 1805 01:58:51,360 --> 01:58:53,370 Dave Jones: Because I think I think we I think I certified my 1806 01:58:53,370 --> 01:58:55,680 novice license on like to meter. 1807 01:58:57,210 --> 01:59:00,450 Adam Curry: Well, novice doesn't exist anymore. Right? Yeah, that 1808 01:59:00,450 --> 01:59:03,120 mean this is back in? Yeah. Two meter. Just Yeah. Two meter just 1809 01:59:03,120 --> 01:59:05,190 on the handheld stuff. Yeah. Yeah. 1810 01:59:06,030 --> 01:59:08,580 Dave Jones: That means 60 feet. That's your whole backyard. 1811 01:59:09,120 --> 01:59:09,270 Yeah, 1812 01:59:09,270 --> 01:59:11,520 Adam Curry: but maybe you don't you don't need a full 1813 01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:15,030 wavelength. No one uses a four way link. Hit me up on Vare. See 1814 01:59:15,030 --> 01:59:17,040 everybody keto five alpha, Charlie, Charlie. 1815 01:59:18,030 --> 01:59:22,200 Dave Jones: We get oh, the delimiter Comstor blogger 4000 1816 01:59:22,200 --> 01:59:26,070 sets through fountain he says that he fell a bit corners Dave 1817 01:59:26,070 --> 01:59:29,700 and he's calling Asus fellow Bitcoiners that he's calling 1818 01:59:29,700 --> 01:59:30,540 himself a bit 1819 01:59:30,600 --> 01:59:33,930 Adam Curry: of Bitcoin. Okay. Well, welcome. 1820 01:59:34,080 --> 01:59:38,070 Dave Jones: Call Mr. Bhalla. Yes. Hello. How do you feel a 1821 01:59:38,070 --> 01:59:40,740 Bitcoiners David Adam, please invite your listeners to listen 1822 01:59:40,740 --> 01:59:45,900 to just two good old boys podcast at WWW dot just two good 1823 01:59:45,900 --> 01:59:49,350 ol boys.com. Join Ben and Jean in their thought provoking 1824 01:59:49,350 --> 01:59:52,770 podcast as they tackle a wide range of topics from the 1825 01:59:52,770 --> 01:59:56,580 complexities of politics and global events in 2024 to 1826 01:59:56,580 --> 01:59:59,490 personal anecdotes and technological musings. This 1827 01:59:59,490 --> 02:00:04,110 podcast offers a candid and unreservedly discussion. Yo CSB. 1828 02:00:04,950 --> 02:00:07,770 Do you think? Thanks Ben and James would describe their 1829 02:00:07,770 --> 02:00:10,410 podcast as a candid and unreserved discussion. 1830 02:00:12,120 --> 02:00:14,880 Adam Curry: Listen, comics. Your blogger does everything with 1831 02:00:14,880 --> 02:00:18,570 Chad TPT these days. He just he just said right to boost the 1832 02:00:18,570 --> 02:00:22,650 gram for this podcast and that's what Chad GPT did they give him 1833 02:00:22,650 --> 02:00:27,780 that? That's how he rolls. I'm telling you, I can see it I see 1834 02:00:27,780 --> 02:00:32,310 his post is all Chad GPT when he comes up with some like, this is 1835 02:00:32,310 --> 02:00:35,430 how I feel today. It's like a whole Chad GPT output You're not 1836 02:00:35,430 --> 02:00:36,150 fooling me 1837 02:00:36,660 --> 02:00:42,510 Dave Jones: CSBG PTS Are we sure CSB still exist 1838 02:00:42,540 --> 02:00:46,260 Adam Curry: no he auditory AI. He's just he's just become AI. 1839 02:00:46,260 --> 02:00:47,760 He does not exist anymore. 1840 02:00:47,820 --> 02:00:50,280 Dave Jones: He's been AFK for like a year and a half probably 1841 02:00:50,340 --> 02:00:55,770 at this point. And the other one I know we get a monthly 1842 02:00:55,800 --> 02:00:59,940 conflicts right? Got Paul Saltzman $22 2016 Thank you, 1843 02:00:59,940 --> 02:01:05,010 Paul. Daymond Cassie, Jack $15 Derek J. Vickery, the best name 1844 02:01:05,010 --> 02:01:11,940 in 2.0 is $21 Er and Rosenstein $1, Jeremy Garrett's $5, Michael 1845 02:01:11,940 --> 02:01:17,220 Hall, $5.50, and Trevor at zener out of Australia $5. And that's 1846 02:01:17,220 --> 02:01:17,700 our group. 1847 02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:20,550 Adam Curry: What a good group a good looking group. Also, thank 1848 02:01:20,550 --> 02:01:23,160 you very much for supporting this value for value projects 1849 02:01:23,160 --> 02:01:26,880 and podcast. If you'd like to learn more about value for 1850 02:01:26,880 --> 02:01:32,130 value, go to value number four value dot info. And to support 1851 02:01:32,130 --> 02:01:35,370 this value for value, podcasts and project go to podcast 1852 02:01:35,370 --> 02:01:40,320 index.org Scroll down to the bottom there are two red donate 1853 02:01:40,320 --> 02:01:43,770 buttons. There's one for your Fiat fund coupons. That's the 1854 02:01:43,770 --> 02:01:46,800 Pay Pal which we of course, accept and we appreciate that. 1855 02:01:47,070 --> 02:01:50,700 The other one is for tally coin for all you fellow Bitcoiners 1856 02:01:50,700 --> 02:01:55,170 who never give us on chain coin, but I still check it and still 1857 02:01:55,170 --> 02:01:59,400 nothing since the 27th of October 2023 What we really want 1858 02:01:59,400 --> 02:02:04,170 you to do is go to podcast apps.com Modern podcast apps.com 1859 02:02:04,170 --> 02:02:09,450 new podcast apps.com Nude podcast apps.com and grab a new 1860 02:02:09,450 --> 02:02:13,050 podcast that almost all of them now do value for value in some 1861 02:02:13,050 --> 02:02:16,620 form of another. I think it's I'm seeing 16 different apps 1862 02:02:16,620 --> 02:02:20,280 now. I think 16 Maybe 17 What? 1863 02:02:20,970 --> 02:02:22,890 Dave Jones: Do them all do them all? 1864 02:02:23,670 --> 02:02:26,790 Adam Curry: Well, yeah, load up your wallet and send us some 1865 02:02:26,790 --> 02:02:29,040 boosts and a booster grant we'd love to read them we'd love to 1866 02:02:29,070 --> 02:02:31,650 thank you personally on the show and thank you for so much for 1867 02:02:31,650 --> 02:02:34,860 supporting podcasting 2.0 The whole kitten caboodle 1868 02:02:35,670 --> 02:02:39,480 Dave Jones: but we just had just got the live the podcast and tip 1869 02:02:39,480 --> 02:02:41,880 window live from the AP bridge eight minutes ago. 1870 02:02:42,360 --> 02:02:44,010 Adam Curry: Way to go all right. Hey, it works. 1871 02:02:44,850 --> 02:02:47,310 Dave Jones: We barely met we made it technically still like 1872 02:02:47,310 --> 02:02:48,300 you're considering 1873 02:02:48,330 --> 02:02:49,590 Adam Curry: I forgot to send it 1874 02:02:50,730 --> 02:02:53,130 Dave Jones: technically still love it, brother. 1875 02:02:53,160 --> 02:02:54,900 Adam Curry: What's coming up for this week for you over this 1876 02:02:54,900 --> 02:02:57,210 weekend. Anything I think from fun, you're hanging out with the 1877 02:02:57,210 --> 02:02:59,790 family just trying to stay warm. Trying 1878 02:02:59,790 --> 02:03:04,620 Dave Jones: to stay warm primarily got got Christmas, 1879 02:03:04,740 --> 02:03:07,080 celebrating Christmas with the in laws that we were not able to 1880 02:03:07,080 --> 02:03:10,380 do very late Christmas celebration. So yep. 1881 02:03:11,220 --> 02:03:12,120 Adam Curry: You have gifts. 1882 02:03:13,320 --> 02:03:16,500 Dave Jones: Yeah, we got gifts. We did have gifts. We're not 1883 02:03:16,500 --> 02:03:17,430 coming empty handed 1884 02:03:17,670 --> 02:03:19,650 Adam Curry: stuff that you that you got from somebody else. Like 1885 02:03:19,650 --> 02:03:21,570 I really don't want this. I think I'll give that to my in 1886 02:03:21,570 --> 02:03:22,380 laws. And this is probably 1887 02:03:22,710 --> 02:03:25,290 Dave Jones: the best the best habit. Because he just picks 1888 02:03:25,290 --> 02:03:27,900 through and just get you just get rid of all the stuff you 1889 02:03:27,900 --> 02:03:29,310 don't like. boardroom. 1890 02:03:29,310 --> 02:03:32,130 Adam Curry: Thank you very much for attending everybody there in 1891 02:03:32,130 --> 02:03:35,220 the chat. Thank you all so much. Thank you for all that you do. 1892 02:03:35,460 --> 02:03:39,570 This is a cast of hundreds who who really work on this project. 1893 02:03:39,870 --> 02:03:44,970 It's app developers, its allies, allies of the app developers. 1894 02:03:45,180 --> 02:03:49,020 It's podcasters it's not jobs. It's a crazy band. I love all of 1895 02:03:49,020 --> 02:03:53,940 you Dave my brother, thank you so much. And we'll be back next 1896 02:03:53,940 --> 02:03:57,600 Friday for a another board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 will 1897 02:03:57,600 --> 02:04:00,150 be here and I'll let you know when we're live and Lindsey then 1898 02:04:00,150 --> 02:04:00,600 everybody. 1899 02:04:17,070 --> 02:04:20,970 Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit 1900 02:04:20,970 --> 02:04:24,360 podcast index.org. For more information, 1901 02:04:24,810 --> 02:04:29,010 Adam Curry: go podcast. I think the kids call this based