Adam Curry: 2.0 for January 26 2024, episode 165 Hashtag
this hello everybody welcome once again to the official board
meeting of podcasting. Oh, that's right. This is the
boardroom it's the board meeting and we are the only board room
that meets on weekends in casual clothing. That's so true.
Everything going on with the namespace podcast index.org all
the happenings at podcast index dot social I'm Adam curry here
in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and at Alabama the man
who's at the root of all your AP bridge posts say hello to my
friend on the other end the one and only Mr
Dave Jones: Oh fresh off the bag of popcorn all finished wait
just in time for the show
Adam Curry: you didn't even pop your own you got a bag of
popcorn
Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't have time to pop I got I got stuff to
do.
Adam Curry: Yeah well your your pod saves you very busy lots of
stuff lots lots going on. What's happening? Yes. The man about
town.
Dave Jones: Well, I mean you're you were flying yourself. Yeah,
I apologize
Adam Curry: out of the border if you go past go check it out. See
what happened. I actually did look to see if there was an
airfield near near Eagle Pass and there is not because I would
have gladly flown down there but now I'm reading that they expect
700,000 trucks Oh, this seems like a lot of trucks.
Dave Jones: I think anything over anytime you get into the
1000s when you're talking about trucks even 1000 It's a lot of
drugs a
Adam Curry: lot of trucks a lot of trucks yeah everyone's pretty
jacked in that Texas about this
Dave Jones: Oh yeah. Ready to fight rolling the sleeves up.
You
Adam Curry: know that's what I'm worried about. What are we what
are we fighting? And all I see the mainstream do is like, Oh,
this is God's army hits white and Christian nationalists. I'm
like, I'm not so sure about that.
Dave Jones: I don't think there's that's that's not
accurate.
Adam Curry: It's not accurate. When you go oh, so my buddy Dick
Pepe. I've known for 35 years he used to be in the music business
he back in the South Jersey days writing and producing for Alice
Cooper Skid Row some Bon Jovi stuff. Baton Rouge you know a
whole bunch of hair bands the Nelson twins
Dave Jones: the nails Oh yeah. I forgot about this great great
Adam Curry: hair that's some pretty good songs that some hit
No, we're okay
Dave Jones: with their his name one of their hits.
Adam Curry: As you know you put me on the spot no and
Dave Jones: see their video their music video in my mind.
Adam Curry: I always like some sort of and let me see the
Nelson was it twins are brothers. I can't remember if
they called I think they might have called the Nelson they
would just Nelson Nelson. Yes. Yes, it was. This is this is
this one of their big hits. Oh, the video video version. Hey,
let's play a song. Okay. Remember this one can't live
without
Dave Jones: get Louis Yeah.
Adam Curry: Hey, check it out, man. Yeah, let's play the song.
Like that. Little studio 2343
Dave Jones: classic
Adam Curry: anthem starts like that.
Dave Jones: Just like that and extreme more than word nor that
yeah, that was confused. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Well, this actually this was also a hit the remember
this one after the rain. Has the concept the concept part of the
video?
Dave Jones: Everybody wants me thriller. Or is this I don't
remember the Native American verb knows
Adam Curry: that has something to do with it. Right Come on.
Come on guys. Play the song. Oh, that looks so pretty. The Nelson
twins are so Freddie. parrot is after his rains.
Dave Jones: I do. You remember this?
Adam Curry: Did this pom pom pom pom pom pom pom? Pom Pom Pom Pom
Pom Pom. Anyway
Dave Jones: And this Ricky Nelson's kids.
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. That's exactly they are they're
really nice guys, by the way. So it was Yeah, so I would be part
of the crew. We hang out there and playing out in the studio
and mess with each other all day long playing pranks. It was
Yeah, so anyway, Vic got a clue and get out of the music
business. Yeah, and he got into, this is a great business he's
in. So he sells it solutions to companies, I guess a probably be
selling to you and the CEO or, you know, maybe this
Dave Jones: foreign guy, this is not the porn guy this year old
buddy.
Adam Curry: That's another one of my great friends. No, this is
not the corn guy. Thanks. No, no, so he'll sell like my
Microsoft Teams, you know, now with AI integration, or, you
know, some other call center stuff. But then channel partner
Yes. And so he, he has the relationship with the company,
takes him out the golf, you know, all the fun stuff. And
then his company managers, the actual implementation partners.
But he gets as long as as long as that company is still
playing, paying, you know, a per seat license for whatever it is,
he gets a piece of that for in perpetuity for, ya know, these
guys, this is a great business,
Dave Jones: holy crap the same. This is the same business that
all the voice over IP guys use. So it's like, they get you in
and they sell you a white label Voice over IP service. And
they're just, they're just like, they don't they don't care. They
have like, 10 different providers on the back end.
Something Yeah,
Adam Curry: whatever you want. Whatever you want. Yeah. So he
told me this unbelievable story. So somehow he got into the
Federal Reserve System, which was like 1215. Banks, who knows?
And, and so he's and the, the request there is to reduce their
overall technology spend by $12 million dollars a year. So he
gets a spreadsheet. Guess how much the Federal Reserve? I hope
I'm not blowing anything here for him. But guess how much the
Federal Reserve System spends on software annually across all the
banks? Their system? On software? Yes, software licenses
and stuff. I'm
Dave Jones: gonna say 75 million $800
Adam Curry: million. Oh, my God. I'm like, 12 million. That's
just what falls on the floor in the morning. Are you kidding me?
You can find that.
Dave Jones: That was off by 10x. Isn't
Adam Curry: that crazy? Oh, my gosh.
Dave Jones: I don't It's like Brewster's millions. I wouldn't
even be able to know. Like, I wouldn't know how to spin that.
What are the use? Here's $150 million. Go spend it. I'm like,
I don't think I can. So then
Adam Curry: I'm showing him you know, Bucha grand ball. I'm
showing, you know, the lit stuff. I'm showing him how the
streaming sites work. And he's like, who implemented all this?
I said, you know, the, the guys and the gals. Yeah, but who did
it said? Well, it doesn't. It's like, you know, lightning was a
bunch of other people over there. And RSS is here, and we
do namespace. And he's been his mind is like boggled. But then
when I when I show how you know, and so you're listening here,
and then the Satoshis come out here. He's like, what? But But
But couldn't you do that with dollars? I said, No, no, you
can't. If we could, I'm sure we would. 10 You can't you would.
Dave Jones: Because every because every 1000 sets that
goes in 900 of those would go to a seat of office 365.
Adam Curry: It's just crazy. But anyway, so yeah, so instead of
driving five and a half hours, I got a Safety Pilot and we flew
up, takes exactly one hour from the airport six minutes from my
house, so you can't beat that. You just can't beat it. It's so
beautiful. This is of course at 16 gallons an hour of gasoline,
the slur brothers slurps a little bit more than the car.
Dave Jones: That's another step. That's a slur.
Adam Curry: We flew out after no agenda on Thursday, so it was in
the dark. That was cool. Yeah, that was very cool. Have you
flown in the dark much? Well, I did to get my initial license. I
haven't flown in the dark here in Texas. It's just beautiful.
It's beautiful.
Dave Jones: Lights and what are you hot? I mean, how hot Are
you? 15,000 No, no,
Adam Curry: it's not pressurized at 9000 feet. Okay, so it's just
you know, just where it's comfortable. We're not like I
feel kind of spacey
Dave Jones: hypoxia, so you don't need pressure. You just
need some heat. That's about it. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah. He was fully air conditioned, you know has
cupholders you name it. Nice Sirius XM Radio. Parachutes
parachute apparently CarPlay and Android Auto, whatever you want.
We actually can sync your your iPad to to the system.
Dave Jones: So that way you can get your you can get your your
pod with your pod verse chat. yours. Yep, yeah. On the
dashboard, the dashboard Yeah. 9000 feet.
Adam Curry: That's right. That's right. Oh, man. So anyway, so
and, you know, just in all the just, I think I've completely
spaced on it to tell you that we need to change everything and so
then on a dime, you flip it around and you contact our
already scheduled guest today. I'm gonna I'm sure bring him in
here. Who was kind enough to flip his schedule around and we
are very proud to have with us the official podcasting 2.0
consultant. Ladies, gentlemen, our other friend on the other
end, Mr. Alex gates.
Alecks Gates: Hello, gentlemen.
Adam Curry: Yeah, you sound so professional. Nice. So great
Alex's number the men the first time we had him on. Yeah
Dave Jones: yeah, yes. Honey tones now. This is great. Oh, I
love it. Oh, you sound great.
Adam Curry: He has kind of, he's got the big bottom sound on me.
What am I doing? You got it.
Alecks Gates: Electro voice already? 320 I believe. That's
Adam Curry: what that's the Adam curry mic.
Dave Jones: And the Dave Jones mic. Yes.
Adam Curry: I thought SM seven B? No,
Dave Jones: no, I'm on the 320 We're all I've always been on
320.
Adam Curry: And we're on kick drum mic as a kick drum mic.
Dave Jones: Is it? Yeah. What do you got? Bass? The Alley you
got? You got a deep voice. You got a deeper voice than I've
ever heard before.
Alecks Gates: Yeah, I used to listen to my Allison myself on
the old mic. And yeah, I definitely didn't hear it. But I
think you're right.
Adam Curry: The old mic that wasn't a mic wasn't as like just
oh, oh, show beer. What are we drinking?
Dave Jones: This is uh, this is a liquid death sparkling water?
Because for some reason I like to spend like $3 a can on
Adam Curry: water. Yeah. Very good. Very good. Sorry about. So
I think we should start off with with this rather interesting
news that that reached us.
Dave Jones: I would like everybody to take out their
Bibles. Yes. Okay. Bring out the book. Then turn to Luke chapter
11. Verse
Adam Curry: five. Okay. And what does it say in 11? Five. Luke
chapter
Dave Jones: 11. Verse five says, then teaching them more about
prayer. He used this story. Suppose you want you suppose you
went to a friend's house at midnight, wanting to borrow
three loaves of bread. You say to him, a friend of mine has
just arrived for a visit and I have nothing for him to eat. And
suppose he calls out from his bedroom. Don't bother me. The
door is locked for the night. My family and I are on the bed. I
can't help you. I tell you
Adam Curry: this real scripture, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah,
Dave Jones: but I tell you this though, he won't do it for
friendship sake. If you keep knocking long enough. He will
get up and give you whatever you need because of your shameless
persistence.
Adam Curry: Say that in the Bible shame. Your shame was.
Dave Jones: I love the NIV says You're shameless. You're
shameless audacity. I think.
Adam Curry: Truer words never spoken. Go
Dave Jones: away. Yeah. So translation is our shameless
persistence will eventually annoy everybody into submission.
Even apple. Isn't
Adam Curry: this. Where if if your son asks you for, you know,
for something to eat, would you give him like a dead fish or
something? Or stinky rock? Bread? Would
Dave Jones: you give him a stone? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Adam Curry: Yeah, there you go. I know. I'm sure. Well, it
happens their foot in the door without basically by ignoring
them. This is very good. I'm very proud. Very proud, very
proud of our accomplishment that you took a meeting with them
yesterday with the Apple team. Can you talk about that? I mean,
you just tell us briefly what happened here because it came
kind of from all directions. First, it was short. And then,
like the floodgates opened up all of a sudden.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Ted Hoffman, it's in an email saying, Hey,
let's listen to him. Let's do a meeting. I need to tell you
something. And then, like, out of 30 minutes later, Mastodon
Tomlin started blowing up apples do a transcript tag. So, you
know, it was just bloody I mean, you know, Todd started, you
know, started the flood and
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Yeah. By Todd is usually the guy who's
like, I can't tell you I'm under NDA.
Dave Jones: Todd kind of threw rss.com under the bus in his in
his Oh, really? What did he do? Like? He was like, no, he's
like, Hey, I heard Apple's doing the transcript tag because RSS
sent out an email from a thing that they got from Apple. It's
like he was kind of like see like covering his bases like
someone else. Just stuck in the middle guys. But yeah, Oh, it
was but anyway, so yeah, we had we had a meeting and they just
showed me the they showed me the transcript feature. And just
went over some some implementation details talking
about, like some things that their team has has said about
things we should be aware of, with interpretation of the tag.
And then a couple of things that they wanted, that they were
Adam Curry: the number one thing they wanted was to be on the
modern podcast apps list.
Dave Jones: I said last week, I was like, Look, I'm gonna put
you on modern podcast apps.com. I'm not, I don't know if I can
get you to nude podcast apps.com That's,
Unknown: that means specialist. You
Dave Jones: don't just walk it you don't just walk around your
neck, like your pod friend earned that you got to earn
this. So I mean, I think so just in general. They did the right
thing. I mean, it's they they're a big company with with a lot of
resources, obviously, they could have they could have easily just
said look,
Adam Curry: screw it iTunes colon transcript, or they could
have
Dave Jones: just not done anything at all and just auto
generated all the transcripts and said, Do you know that's
what you get? We're not your you can't do your own transcript,
we're just going to auto generate them. It's what Spotify
does. And you and YouTube,
Adam Curry: this is what this is what made me so happy. I even
saw in their spec in their, you know, their spec or whatever
they call it kind of the how to use podcasts Apple podcast, they
refer to the namespace to the GitHub namespace. That was cool.
Yeah, link to it on there. Yeah. So what are the parameters
around this? That if you have an existing transcript that will
flow through, they won't do anything? It'll just happen.
And, and do they, for just from what I've been reading, at 9000
feet, excuse me, I have to read a little person messengers here.
It appears that they will take your name recognition, Speaker
names and stuff, and that'll show up that that'll all work
perfectly.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So there's, yes. Let me go over a little bit
of the technical partners. They so they didn't they did they did
it. It's I don't know if you've seen it, but they did it very
well. I mean, it looks, it looks no I haven't seen it looks
really good. It's got the word by word highlighting that's.
Adam Curry: VTT word by word or
Dave Jones: TT or SRT both both. Oh, cool. Yeah, write custom
font. For for it. Speak. It's the guest speaker labels, if
those are in there, but only in VTT. You can search the
transcript there's halls or music that plays during the show
that you'll get this little icon sort of like, like, three dot
indicator saying, Hey, we're just kind of chillin while until
the words come back. As basically everything you'd
expect in a high quality transcript feature. I mean,
other 2.0 apps go further, obviously, like pod friend. True
friends, go further and show like in show the person tag and
link, you know, link out to the Avid, you know, avatars of the
speaker. But I mean, when it comes to honoring just the
intent of this one tag. I can't really find anything to
criticize. I mean, I think I think there is room for them to
go forward and start to do more of this stuff. And I think
they've, I think by doing this, they've indicated that they that
they're open to do that. You can't really find anything to
criticize because they're mean
Adam Curry: well, they basically accept they've accepted the
namespace that that's the thing that makes me happy on the other
side, I'm also like, okay, so I still want our apps to be super
competitive, which they
Dave Jones: are and they will be so I
Adam Curry: want from my perspective you No, I'm not
gonna like Oh, it's great. Everyone go to Apple nope, no,
no, not gonna not gonna do that. But I really appreciate the
people who were there and who have implemented it in this
manner because that is exactly that's exactly what you'd hope
and it is exactly what we never expected. Because big that not
nothing against Apple per se, but you know, Spotify is is the
is the example. They just go out. No, we're Spotify. We got
it all. And I think it's a big fu to Spotify. It's it also I'm
sure they did this a because it's kind of low hanging fruit.
Seems it also was good because you know they're they're genuine
writing it for every podcast. It. I think it kind of spurs
people on to do it through their hosts, because you have a lot
more control over over what's happening there. And I, I'm sure
their transcripts are great. I don't know what they're using,
and also kind of shows that speaker recognition is hard
business, which is why they're not doing it.
Dave Jones: Well, they Yeah, they're not Yeah, they're not
doing that in this. So they've kind of built to think this is
worth talking about for a second, they built two things
here. They built a transcript generation service. And this
feature into the podcast app, so you can go and grab the
transcript that they auto generate for you. You can edit
it, and then stick it back in your feed with the RSS with the
podcast transcript, right? And you have a VTT transcript that
was auto generated for you. And so you, you can basically just
use that thing for free. And they encourage that. I mean,
they said that during the meeting, they're like, you know,
here's how you do it, you round trip it back through RSS if you
want to do this.
Adam Curry: So could you even automate that from a podcast
hosting company?
Dave Jones: I don't think so. And and I think they're
probably, you know, I think it probably terms and stuff like
that, but I think like, you know, I don't know, that'd be
kind of weird, but but I did ask them does it work on video
podcasts? And this is, you know, someone to talk to you about
Alex? Because I was thinking about peer to does does this
work on video podcasts? They said no. So the transcripts or
audio podcast, only writing it for now, and they said they
really have any plans to make that to make that any different.
But I think VTT does what appear to us is right. Yeah, correct.
Okay, is that does is their, this, this was kind of this was
kind of odd, I think in because I didn't really fully understand
the VTT spec. That well, until this week, when I had to go and
kind of brush up on things. And I didn't realize until a couple
of days ago, that is the how intense this thing is. It has
got so much it's in it's essentially XML in, in, it's
like a sec, you take SRT, and you embed a stylesheet engine,
and XML and all this stuff into it. It is a crazy big spec with
all kinds of stuff like you can make. You can control the style
of the output of all the VT of all the cash, like a markdown
type thing. markdown. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. In like,
it's pretty intense. But from my understanding, I don't know what
peer tube supports when it shows it. But they said they're on
their side that they're only going to basically they're just
doing speaker Speaker Labels. And that's it.
Alecks Gates: Yeah, I don't think peer tube even enforces
the spirit Speaker Labels. And anyway, just kind of converts if
you can upload SRT. So it's like a really basic, basic trans
transcript. I think it only uses VTT, because that's what the
browser supports.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. Because you can just stick that run to
the to the like, video tag or whatever.
Alecks Gates: We do have Mark calls film killing yard has a
VTT transcript that someone could test with. It's really
basic isn't it gets out of sync to I don't even know if Apple
supports HLS video anyway.
Adam Curry: I thought that they pioneered it. I thought they
pioneered they created Yeah.
Alecks Gates: Well, they've created the protocol. I don't
know if they're supporting Apple podcasts. Okay, okay. Oh,
Dave Jones: that's, that was that'd be it?
Alecks Gates: I have no idea. I just don't know.
Adam Curry: Did they say anything else? I mean, did you
say you definitely felt that there was an A A hint of well,
this is based start, you know, the we this is how we'll do
stuff, maybe more coming dot dot dot.
Dave Jones: I mean, I did get I did get that feeling. I felt
like they wanted to play ball. But they with with things in the
future. But there's they're big and they're slow. And they take
a lot of time. And honestly, I mean, that's that. I mean,
that's okay. But it may not understand. I mean, that's the
way things go in a large corporation. And so the, I mean,
they asked Ted I'm like, Well, what, you know, what, what would
your message be to like people in the podcasting 2.0 deaf
group. And he said, I want you know, he's like, if I can say
anything, I would say that Apple podcast is a modern podcast app.
I want them to think of it that way. Wow. That tells me that you
know, they're there want to go forward with other things. So
we'll see what happens
Adam Curry: boosting is next.
Dave Jones: Me I think I think VTT I don't know if you agree
with this, Alex. But I mean, it's hard to ignore somebody
that's got that much. So in an app coming in, that has that
much market share. So it really makes I think VTT probably
become the default. Probably what everybody should be
generating by default, since it's basically, since it's
really not that much more difficult to generate than SRT.
Alecks Gates: Yeah, I would agree with that. There's pretty
much no reason not too. I mean, there, there's an argument to be
made that we could maybe some of the absolute favorite JSON just
because of the word by word timestamps. But otherwise, I
would agree with that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, cuz then you then you just get, you get web
kind of for free. You know?
Adam Curry: I'm just looking to see if otter outputs VTT, I
don't even know I never even looked at it. I say SRT
Dave Jones: and VTT are so close, all relate to each other.
I mean, they're, they're so close to each other as far as
the actual format goes. I guarantee you there's some like,
converter or something like that. But But see, you know, on
the podcast in 2.0, the app side? Well, I guess I can
clarify does that anymore. But so in on the, you know, for the
apps, like from the from that podcast, and on a dev group,
those are going to be probably a lot of times using Steven
craters transcript, dater live. Right, right. So they can just
kind of consume anything in and out, and they're going to
output. Whatever. I mean, I think the developers really even
care at that point what you give them they're just, they
Adam Curry: can they can pick and eat it however they want.
Yeah, but newsflash otter does not do, Vicente. That's what
I've been using SRT. Yeah. So this, of course, begs the
question. Do we now get to say that approximately 46% of all
downloads are podcast 2.0 apps? Let's be honest about it.
Alecks Gates: I think so. It's really, it's really validating,
as someone who works so hard the namespace because I was
listening to pod news weekly review, and they were talking
about Lipson, you know, pretty much not caring about podcasting
2.0 features, and it's like, do you want to change the world? Or
do you want apple to do it for you? And
Adam Curry: and learn there's no coincidences in the kingdom? No
sooner? No sooner had those words been spoken? Or they they
did it? They did exactly that.
Dave Jones: What a great that that's a great way to put it.
Alex is like, are you just gonna sit back and wait for somebody
else to do this stuff for you? Or do you want to have a hand in
creating it? And then right now, I feel you on that, brother, I
mean, like, so. And I think that I think that they're going to be
involved in the way that they can. So one of the things that
they requested
Adam Curry: was an invite to podcasting. Next on social.
We're already there. I mean, I know we got people there lurk,
and
Dave Jones: yeah, they're like, but one of the things that they
talked about was, AI, was tagging. So they're, they're big
on. They're big on AI tagging. So they want things to be
clearly labeled whether or not in there, if you look on their
transcript page, if it's an auto generated transcript that they
created in their system, it's going to say at the bottom, this
was generated, this is auto generated. And they want to, he
was saying that he wanted to extend that if possible, by
adding it's
Adam Curry: he's lurking quick, let me kick them off.
Dave Jones: So he said, he said they want to extend that to, to
the transcript tag, if we can figure out as a group a way to
do that, well, essentially, like put in some sort of generator
attribute or something that was called where this transcript
came from.
Adam Curry: I think I recall a discussion about that on a on
the GitHub, I think, actually, James might have been talking
about that, if I recall correctly. There was something
about that,
Dave Jones: as well, there was a tag proposal for just in general
saying, tagging an entire podcast as this is an AI
podcast, like it. This is an AI generated podcast. And I think
that like this would be you know, what they were saying and,
and I think it's probably a good idea is that if you extend if
you sort of like because that's a little bit too broad. I mean,
like there's certain aspects of the podcast that could be aI
generated Did you may that we may really need to have
disclosed? Like, perhaps the transcript itself comes from an
AI generated come in, it could be that your deck could almost
be like a disclaimer like, Hey, don't you know if we, if this
thing gets wrong? Yeah, it came from it came from AI or
whatever, it
Adam Curry: shouldn't be at the bottom, it should be at the top
of the transcript, honestly, for sure.
Dave Jones: in things like, like the, maybe the person tag it
had, maybe there's a attribute in there this is, you know, is
this essentially some sort of way to indicate whether or not
this was an actual person or some kind of autogenerate? Just
a
Adam Curry: crazy thought. But, you know, the, the GitHub
discussions are open for anybody. I mean, now, it's kind
of going through one person than the next, but I'd love to see
them in there with some proposals. Now,
Dave Jones: they're in there. They're in there sometimes.
Yeah, they were, you know, they worked on the txt tag with us.
Adam Curry: Right, right. Okay, good. Good.
Dave Jones: Yeah. But I think I think it's something that will
well,
Adam Curry: now I'm gonna go buy an Apple vision Pro. I feel good
now. And while we're on the topic, anyone who might be
listening over there, I am very gung ho on creating a virtual
podcast studio, here's an opportunity, just say, where
Dave Jones: you can fly now without leaving your home. At
the border. I live in Fredericksburg.
Adam Curry: Now I want to be flying and doing a podcast at
the same time.
Dave Jones: He's got the Patriot app, he just load up. So yeah,
but it's good. I mean, that's great. Good thing. Yeah.
Adam Curry: And congratulations to everybody. Congratulations to
everybody in the podcast and 2.0 orchestra. And enter the apple
team, I'm really very happy about this. Because this is one
of these moments. And I think we've talked about this
Meantime, just someone's gonna happen. And then and, and there
will be a bump. And this is although this is maybe not a
huge public facing bump. This is something that shows it
completely certifies what we're doing, it validates what we're
doing.
Dave Jones: I just think it's hilarious to have podcast
apps.com and apple at the very bottom of the list, one tag.
That just makes me so happy.
Adam Curry: Speaking of lists, so and I see you have some
clips, of course, I haven't listened to anything you sent
me. But there wasn't a discussion. I also have not
unfortunately listened to pod pod news weekly review, I feel
like I haven't done my homework this week yet. But I saw the
topics. And so this was a conversation that well, you
know, and I if I recall, the the people of podcasting 2.0 They
won't really tell you that it's only 1% of apps. Like okay, and
then so I started a little a little thread. I said, Well,
this all depends, you know, we can all wait around for, you
know, some some marketing firm to come along and promote the
benefits of podcasting 2.0 Or do what people are already doing is
I promote to my slightly less than 1 million no agenda
listeners an app, you know, podcast apps.com, but I always
talk about an app that I'm using. And then I went and I
looked at the OP three stats, and I see that, you know, I've
got 30% using pod verse, I've got 15% using fountain, then
chyron pops up his op three list, he's got 60% of his
audience using fountain. This is this is how the marketing works.
And, and to me, it was just kind of like, I like to remind
everybody, podcasting isn't a platform. You know, it's not
like one big monolith where, you know, it's only the aggregate
that counts. It's just not true. So I have a million people,
there's 300,000 that are using pod verse. That's not bad.
Dave Jones: No, that's not that's not bad. That's, that's
not just not bad. That's great. Yeah. Like,
Adam Curry: then, and a couple of people were putting up their
stats. And I was like, No, yeah, you can look at it that way that
it's less than 1%. But for my world, which is only important
to me, it's a much higher number, and I'm super happy and
I and I get those people to use those apps. And they try
different ones out. And you know, there's a lot of there's
15 of them now. And and I promote the I promote the
benefits and for my money. The number one thing that I'd love
to see Apple use is pod ping. I mean, that wouldn't actually you
could actually send out a press release that Apple is saving the
environment by polling less, and we have hundreds of 1000s of
feeds that are that are hitting pod ping
Dave Jones: with you, if you Yeah, I mean, Alex brought up so
you know he is talking about Alex, you were talking about
what Rob said he's you Just just to catch everybody up in case
they don't know what we're talking about. This is Rob Walsh
from the feed, which he works at Lipson, and he's they have a
podcast called the feed. And he's talked to him about on
there. He had a question from a listener about what is
podcasting? 2.0? Like, how do I get involved? And this was his
answer.
Adam Curry: Which one is this? Internet? Rob? Rob, what
Dave Jones: is podcasting? 2.0? I'm
Adam Curry: sorry, yes, I see it here at the bottom. Alright,
Unknown: podcasting. 2.0 is not one thing. It is many, many
different items, none of which are supported by Apple podcasts
or Spotify. Actually, less than 1% of all downloads to
aggregator apps come from apps that support any of the podcast
2.0 specs, this is something you do not hear the podcast 2.0
proponents mention, there's virtually no support on the
listener side per aggregator apps, which is where it's posted
matter most.
Dave Jones: You put that in there, that was not me, you're
trying to serve me. I'm gonna ignore the the fact that, you
know, now this is this is incorrect. That's not fair. But
Adam Curry: But hold on, hold on a second. You can ignore it. We
talked we talked to Libsyn, two years ago. And yeah, we're gonna
do it, we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it. I felt personally,
I felt there was like, You're, you're the one of the first
companies that was out there, you've had a rough ride with all
kinds of vO company issues. But that felt that felt like you're
kicking us a little bit. Take it. Right. And if you were
implementing one tag, then I would take the criticism. Read
it. But if you implement nothing like that, that just that just
seemed a little bullish. bullish. No,
Dave Jones: it did it. It will we I mean, we yeah, we had a
meeting with them. And, you know, it's one of their lead
developers. And I think the president of that company, and,
you know, they told us that they were like, Well, we're here we,
you know, we want to dive in, send us all the documentation
that you've gotten us put together and spend time putting
together a bunch of documentation and emailing it to
them, and then they didn't do anything. Right. And, you know,
which is, is fine. I mean, evangelism is the hardest part
of any open source project and 99% of the time, it doesn't
produce any results. Just
Adam Curry: ask Jesus. It was really difficult. I just had a
hard time getting the word out. Yeah, it's very spiritual
podcast today. Yes, I was you started it. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I did. I did is muffled. So if we like, if I
don't really care about criticism, if I did. We, I
Adam Curry: mean, we were
Dave Jones: a long time ago. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but, you know,
I guess. I guess it's, you know, we're not hiding anything. And
the biggest issue with what he said, as far as I'm concerned
is, and I kind of want to move on to something else. The that
ALC said it but my biggest thing with him with what he said was
that he's talking about podcast stats as if they are one thing
that indicate that is yeah, like you said, is if the entire
industry is one monolithic thing, yes. It's it's like, it's
like talking about the economy in terms of GDP. Yeah. The GDP
went up two and a half percent in quarter, you know, in in
2020.
Adam Curry: My step kid in Brooklyn, she's starving. Kids,
there's waiting tables. Exactly. Yeah,
Dave Jones: your GED, your your two and a half percent GDP did
not, you know, doesn't help the guy who lost his gig. Who got
laid off? Yeah, it's irrelevant. It's an irrelevant number, the
stat those kinds of stats don't mean anything. Because like you
said, the biggest podcaster in the world, Joe Rogan has one
app. Yeah,
Adam Curry: one. And he's maybe four or 5% of all downloads.
Yes.
Dave Jones: So these, saying this is just, to me indicates a
misunderstanding of the nature of the podcast ecosystem at a
fundamental level. Yeah. And I think, you know, when people say
when people say this, when people use these kind of
arguments, I think, what they're, what they're saying is,
you know, companies that are heavily invested in and making
money from pot in advertising, digital advertising, basically,
podcasting. I think what they're really saying is these features
are boring because they don't allow me to make any money off
your podcast.
Adam Curry: Yeah, Yeah. Although people do move hosts for these
types of features.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And I'm not being ugly. I'm just saying that
I mean, I think that's true. I think there's a there's because
these these companies, they sell advertising on these shows. And
so like, if they look at that chapters, and they're like,
Well, I don't give a crap about chapters. I mean, how does that
help me make money? Like, I think there's, I think it gets
clouded like that, right? Yeah. Well, in that Yeah, absolutely.
Adam Curry: Absolutely. It's the same thing is, you know, hey,
there's $2 billion dollars going around and podcasting. Okay.
Dave Jones: Yes, but, you know, the other thing, I think, I
think what ALC said, was more interesting to me. She talked
about being intimidated by the technical nature of 2.0. I am
Unknown: not negative about podcasting 2.0 features, and I
really find them exciting. But I'm at a loss as to how to
communicate a lot of this in a simple manner, with the
demographic and psychographic that I serve. And also, if I
want to participate in a lot of this stuff, a lot of the
conversations I've seen around podcasting, 2.0 is very
technically centric. And I feel like I don't understand it
myself. And I kind of feel overwhelmed. And, like, I'm not
smart enough to know this stuff. Like, that's just a personal
feeling that I get when these conversations come up.
Not that they're trying to make people feel that way. No, no, I
mean, I, I actually feel like I don't even know what to say
about that. Because in all honesty, I get confused by a lot
of the conversations, I feel intimidated by you being in the
in those rooms, or in rooms, as in like not actual rooms, you
know what I mean? Like in communities that are really pro
podcast 2.0. Because a lot of the conversations are really
technical. And I feel like I don't even know what to say, I
wouldn't even know like, all I would be doing is going so what
is that? Wait, what? What is that? Like? What's, uh, where
does that go? How do I see that again, like, and so I feel like
they'd be explained, like explaining way basics. And
Adam Curry: oh, well, that's a very good point.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and I'm glad he threw in there that, you
know,
Adam Curry: that we're not doing our purpose. Yeah, exactly.
Dave Jones: I thought that I thought that was a good thing
that he threw in,
Adam Curry: well, this will this is good. And this conversation
comes back from time to time. And then it happened again. The,
I think we can agree now, if not, I think it was said quite
clearly, podcasts. index.org should not be the place to
explain podcasting. 2.0. No, first of all, the podcasts,
hosting companies. They're the ones that speak to the
podcasters. And I think they've done a pretty good job of
explaining some of these features. That's their job they
and walking people through these features and how they have
helped desk when people get stuck. I want to see 2530 4050
websites that explain it if you if you go looking for the
official podcasting website, it doesn't exist. But there's 1000s
of YouTube videos and hundreds of podcasts, Dave Jackson School
of podcasting that explain what this is, I mean, there's 20
years of explanation. And you know, Daniel J. Lewis, he's, you
know, he's, he has ideas and I think he should put them out
there. And I'd be the first point to say, hey, if you're
looking for an explanation of of these features, check this out.
Listen to this podcast. Whenever someone says to me how to get
started with the podcast, I send them to school of podcasting.
Always like go there Dave Jackson gets it and I think you
can also get some some episodes and lessons on podcasting 2.0
that we need more of that and so I just want to make sure we move
away from the notion that you know that somehow we need to be
the marketing site because it'll never be good ever. It won't we
tried it we had a guy who was trying to do it and and he left
because we were like, No, this is not this is not is not good.
It's not and he laughed. He's like, Oh, you guys no good Yeah,
that's right. But this is this is not it. Now and I hope that
Dame Jennifer she she sent me a note the other day she says I'm
working on the on the video explanation of this, like that's
fantastic. It will happen. I mean, it took a while. Then,
four to four to happen. Initially, I mean, in the
beginning, we had to tell listeners to go find an orange
RSS icon, right click copy, go to your app to hit some,
subscribe, don't worry, it's not going to cost you a subscription
doesn't cost you anything, I just explained that paste, and
then then it's in there. You know, these things take time and
the end, people will start to, you know, create lessons and
information.
Dave Jones: Let's step back, let's step back for a minute and
just look at what podcasting itself like actually consists of
multiple locations of HTTP objects delivered over IP, one
of which contains an XML file, describing metadata of a show,
and a bunch of episodes, in part in other HTTP locations,
describing potentially mp3 files, WAV files, other audio
file types, I mean, explaining this setup to any normal person.
You've already it's completely hopeless. You've already RSS
based podcasting itself is already hopelessly difficult to
explain. Yeah, people's eyes glaze over. So podcasting 2.0 is
not unique in this way. If you're trying to explain the
guts, of RSS based podcasting, you better stop because you're
not going to do it to a normal person. Yet, somehow. We have a
thriving podcast ecosystem. Amazing. And you Yeah. And you
know why? Because programmers and developers take these
complex schematics. And they translate them into something
that nobody has to understand. The Alec Alex's work on peer
tube, he took all the 2.0 stuff, and baked it into peer tube so
that somebody who knows nothing about video podcasting, can fire
up the channel, have a to podcasting 2.0 compatible feed
with a ton of features. Yeah, and they can go live stream and
they don't know anything. So I guess, like, well, the same,
Adam Curry: the same. The same can be said for pod home. Pod
home. Yeah, upload your your file, and it says, Oh, here's
your here's a suggestion for your chapters. Here's your
transcript. Here's some other, you know, whatever other things,
title, all of those come suggested. And so it's
interesting that, you know, LC works at Lipson she should know,
I mean, Lipson have they launched Lipson five yet. It's
difficult to build UX that explains to people what they're
doing, but yet companies are doing it Buzzsprout has made it
pretty simple. I think I think that blueberry has, you know,
has effectively communicated to their customers, hey, here's
what they call features, or whatever they call them. And
here's new stuff. And here's the apps that show them. So I mean,
yeah, but this these things take a little bit of time, if you're
only looking at podcasts index dot social, or the GitHub. Yeah,
I mean, I mean, I can't even put up with the GitHub.
Dave Jones: Like, it's just that. I guess what I'm trying to
say is it is Robin, Elsie probably should stop trying to
explain to porn, though it's really not. Yeah, exactly,
exactly. It's
Alecks Gates: not there. They shouldn't, they shouldn't have
to hear they should be paying someone to tell them what it is.
That's the other hosted. But I worked for a lot of people who
don't know what I do. And I explain it to them in a higher
level. And they're just not making the investment.
Dave Jones: Yes, I would imagine in your day job, Alex, that
you're probably you know, you, you explain the high level
stuff, and then you go build the build the solution. And then
they don't have to know how the solution works. It's just you
told you told them that the rough idea, and then you have a
finished product and that's what they paid you for.
Alecks Gates: And how much it cost. Yeah, yeah. And how much
it costs?
Adam Curry: Well, Alex, I'll have you know that Mo Mo facts
is coming your way. Okay, he is ready. He is ready. He has his
basic understanding. You know, he has a YouTube understanding
and I think that what you've done with peer tube I think
you've you've given us enough hints there in the interface and
what you need to do that's like hey, you connect it up here. And
then you start streaming here it recording is here. And here's I
think you even Jeff to hook up a wallet or is that built in? I
don't remember up
Alecks Gates: so just to be clear, most of that's not even
my work. That's just the pure to developers. They're really
great. But you I mean you just have to saw the lightning plug
in and add like a lightning address or whatever. So cool.
And thanks, Eric or head for that work. So yeah, I mean,
it's, there's a couple things that you have to install
afterwards. But yeah, I'd be happy to help him with that.
Yes,
Adam Curry: I'm sending him to you. I'm sending him to you.
Dave Jones: Just be speaking of YouTube. There's another.
There's another clip I want to play because I think this is
actually pretty appropriate. Where she's talking about the
YouTube Music app lacking basic features,
Unknown: quote, I've been asking for the ability to mark episodes
has played since May, and Google in December, said to expect that
in the coming months, it's really a basic podcast client
feature to help manage your library, playing a podcast and
dragging the scramble all the way to clear it from that new
episodes playlist is a ridiculous hack. A more minor
ask is support for podcast chapters, which I'm actually
hopeful for given that there's an equivalent video feature.
Meanwhile, YouTube music needs new episode notifications. One
underrated feature of Google podcasts was that the parents
company's vast server cloud infrastructure meant episode
alerts were instantaneous YouTube music needs per show
notification instead of just relying on that your new
episodes carousel and the home feed. Surprise, YouTube decided
to expand internationally without something as basic as
this since it would encourage people to keep using the app for
podcast and quote. So back to kind of just wrap the
conversation we had prior to the promo. We're still here. Yep, we
are still at them. marking an episode played part of the game.
Adam Curry: Yeah, good point.
Dave Jones: But see that, that that is a direct contradiction
to what they're talking about earlier. Yeah. It's the these at
these apps. These if the, if the YouTube app sucks this bad. The
YouTube Music app sucks this bad for podcasting. Tell your
audience not to use it. Tell your audience to go and use it
and use a 2.0 app. Yeah, it's it's so easy. You don't have to
know what podcasting 2.0 is. Just tell them to go use a
modern podcast app that is decent. I mean, the YouTube
Music app doesn't even have new episode notifications. WTF?
What? Yeah,
Adam Curry: they don't they don't. They don't seem very
serious about their effort in this. No,
Dave Jones: it's, it's terrible. It's a, that's a terrible day.
So like the Devitt. We depend on developers to take these to take
all of these things, and translate them into usable
software, that the listener and the podcaster, use a buzzer,
like Buzzsprout Buzzsprout created the transcript tag, they
brought that to the two point is to this two point space. They
brought that to the 2.0 namespace. Then you have
rss.com, who's now auto generating transcripts. So they
picked up something that another host used auto just started auto
generating transcripts in their system and providing those now,
and then you had 2.0 apps starting to show them in the in
the player. Now you've got the apple podcasts app, showing
transcripts in the player, for a huge portion of of listeners, no
listener, and no podcaster had to ever know about this. Never
had to be explained. It just happened organically. As
developers, there's gonna there's gonna come a point
there's gonna come a point in every day in the life cycle of
every app, that's an I mean, every podcast app, where the
bases were so many of the basic features are covered. And the
developer is looking for new ideas and new things to do. And
they're going to see and this this goes back to why we focused
so hard on developing relationships with the hosting
companies from the beginning, is if you can get all if you can
get as if you can get tons of feeds to have these features in
them. And this is what hurts so bad about Lipson not being on
board. Yeah, because Lipson has tons of feeds. If you can get
the content out there, eventually in the lifecycle of
each app, and when the developer is looking for new things to do
in new features to bring to their audience. They're gonna
look at all of these feeds, and they're gonna say, oh, you know,
what, what is this? Interesting, this is the PERT, what does the
person tag do?
Adam Curry: Or in fact, they look at our API and say, Oh,
look at this. We got pod rolls coming out.
Dave Jones: Yeah, what's a pod roll? That's this. This is
interesting. What is, uh, you know, here's a transcript, no,
they had transcript, all you're gonna, you're gonna see, whoa,
chapters, there's a whole chapters file, you're going to,
they're going to begin to see all of this content out there in
hundreds of 1000s of feeds. And they're just going to reverse
engineer backup to the spec, and start building these and showing
them, but they would never do that if the spec existed in a
vacuum. And there was no content there. And so what I'm saying
is, this is an inevitable rollout slow rollout of new
features. And this is the way it
Adam Curry: always Oh, and it always takes time. Yes, it takes
takes a long time. It's like value for value takes a long
time before. It's like oh, and then all of a sudden everyone's
kind of seeing it. Everyone's seeing value dripping into their
wallets.
Dave Jones: It part of what they used was the jeans mom argument.
You know, I can't explain to to jeans
Adam Curry: model but she died. So that's kind of a bad. It's
not good to use that anymore. It's no, no, no. Jeans. It's an
honorary honorary title. I think Jean is very happy with us using
it still. In Memoriam Memorial jeans mom in memoriam GMM
because
Dave Jones: the whole idea of the jeans. Now, this is an
honoring thing, because you know, the idea of the jeans mom
argument was that was that it was not fair to jeans mom. Like,
the Jim's mom was smarter than everybody who gave her credit.
And so that's the thing is like, you know, we keep being told I
can't recommend some other app, or or some other feature
somebody go seek out another feature or something like that,
because it's too hard to explain. Well, you don't have to
tell you. I can tell you that. If you look at Chrome's market
share lately. No. It's like 85% of the entire internet is Google
Chrome, as Google Chrome is not delivered by default on any
operating system. Somebody has learned somewhere that they're
supposed to go download an app. I mean, the the argument that
people don't are not willing to try new things. Yeah, he's not
specious. I don't think that's true. So everybody, people are
willing people will try new things.
Adam Curry: They do. I don't want to belabor what the proof
is in the pudding. But it has to come from the podcast or when a
podcaster says, Hey, try this app. Yeah. And I always use one
or two features. The main one, I said, Hey, you know, you'll be
updated within 90 seconds of me publishing it, you get an alert.
Is that something you're interested in? Everybody's
interested in that? I'm sick and tired of seeing on Twitter that
something was released, and it's not in my app yet? Well,
Dave Jones: I think I think Apple got to that point, their
lifecycle there locally at work, you know, what can we do looking
around for new features and that kind of thing? Here's, here's a
feature. 2.0 feature we can do? Yeah. And then they put that in
there. And it also helps them because people want, they are
less likely to bail out and go to a different app. But I mean,
it benefits everybody. And I guess my biggest thing here
would, you know, my biggest message to to Lipson would be to
just repeat what, what Alex said, Stop letting everybody
else do this job for you, like getting the game is
Adam Curry: so true.
Alecks Gates: Well, I think I think the the tyranny of the
default is worse than Apple, I just maybe argue against that a
little bit. And Apple knows that. And that's why they that's
why they're adding features.
Adam Curry: The Tyranny of the default? Yeah,
Alecks Gates: I will, I mean, it's the default apps, right.
Most people probably use the apple podcast app, because
that's what they have. And I think Android users are just
more used to finding new apps.
Dave Jones: Yeah, speaking. Okay. Speaking of Andrew, I
thank you for saying that because it jogged my memory.
Speaking of Android, so this, one of the things that they were
telling me in the meeting yesterday was that this is about
and I've got a GitHub post on this post on this. They were
talking about the MIME types. And I think we have we have it
correct for the MIME type is for VTT is text slash VTT The
MimeType for SRT is like unobtainium, I cannot figure out
what the real one is. I don't think there actually is a real
one that's defined anywhere by any sane human being. But Apple
says that it should be text slash SRT. But I just don't
think that's right. Because everything I can find says it's
got to be either text plain or applications X sub rip. And
we've got in our documentation that is supposed to be
application slash x dash sub rip. But so I'm not I'm not
exactly sure what to do about that. Because you know, if we
put in at text SRT, XR t, if we started recommending that, and
that's not the actual thing, then. You know, it's because
then they deprecated those x dash, whatever I thought, so I
don't know, this is it's above. This is out of my comfort zone
at this point,
Adam Curry: Alex.
Alecks Gates: I think if there's no standard, we just have to
allow both. There's no way to enforce it anyway.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I mean, I don't see how
that we'll see any other way to slice that.
Alecks Gates: A tax plan is dumb that, no.
Dave Jones: I'm trying to avoid the the inevitable. You know,
every time you're in an open source project, and you do
something, there's always which what you might call the MIME
type smartass. That where you define something, and somebody
pops up and says, you know, that's not the right MIME type.
And it's like, oh, okay, fine. And then there's an inevitable
flame war about what MIME type to use.
Alecks Gates: So I'm actually Dave.
Dave Jones: I'm trying to avoid that here. But I'm afraid I'm
afraid. I don't, I don't want there to be like a, you know, 12
Page GitHub discussion about what MimeType to use in this
scenario. So I'm not against what I'm saying is I don't think
we can change anything at this point. I think. I think we gotta
leave it alone for the moment.
Adam Curry: I'm fine with leaving it alone for the moment.
Dave Jones: You're not opinionated on the MimeType
format?
Adam Curry: No, no, no, I want to move on to rising. I want to
move on to the helipad update.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. What would you do, then i,
Adam Curry: t, Eric VP, sent a an update to heli pad, a beta,
which I had to sideload. Now when you side load onto this as
the start nine that I'm running, that was very interesting. It
required a restart of the entire box. That's not necessarily
because it it was stuck or anything. It was like I was out
of ideas, because it installed and then it was throwing an
error, and then was trying to stop and I couldn't stop the
service. And like, I'm just gonna reboot it. And then I was
very interesting, because lnd took about full 3540 minutes to
sync to the graph and sync the channels and it may be had
gotten, I don't know what that was. And I have a feeling it may
have been out of sync, something may have happened. I didn't look
at it honestly before I installed but it doesn't matter.
Because I got it installed. I got it working works perfectly.
And so now it has a an extra tab. So for those who don't
know, heli pad is a piece of software. It has a great
interface. And I mean, I love the interface is so simple. It's
so beautiful just works. And you can see in real time when booths
come in, and it has a timestamp, it shows you the logo of what
app, it shows you the total amount of the booths sent. The
name tells you the episode or in some cases, what song or what
remote item if it's a if it's a value time split, then you can
click on the timestamp, it'll bring you all the TLV all the
info about what was sent along with it. And with two apps to
two apps that will be curio caster and cast automatic or who
have a reply to as per the spec. They have implemented reply to I
think it's in the spec, little Reply button surfaces and so you
hit that then it says recipient which is basically the I think
we should cast the Matic just shows me a a node address. So
it's you know, I think curio caster showed me the name of the
person who sent it as Yeah, yeah, that shows you the name of
the person who sent it. Then you can fill out your own name as
sender which is open for interpretation, number of sets
and a message and hit boost, a boost it right back and I tried
it with curio caster tied into my lb wallet. And I replied, and
it went right back to my lb wallet and with the message and
it had my name there that I had filled in at the top. And I was
able to reply to the boost with 1000 SATs. And so now I have a
sent tab you have boost, you have streams so you can see the
per minute streams that are coming in. It's also fun to
watch from time to time. And then the sense and it. And right
there. It shows me the boost that I sent back. It's the Round
Robin and I would love for other apps to implement this.
Dave Jones: This have essentially turned over helipad
to Eric peepee. At this point I gave him like maintainer rights
on that repo. So he's like, I'm not I'm not even involved
anymore. It's like his app now. He's he's rocking and rolling
with it.
Adam Curry: It is fant I mean, it's a very exciting. It's just
exciting that, you know, I can send it back. Hey, thanks for
your boost. I really appreciate it. And here's 1000 SATs back,
SATs back
Dave Jones: says that's bad. I wonder Friday.
Adam Curry: I wonder. So this is cool export option, which I
really love the export option. I wonder if that also works on the
sent booths? Oh, yes, it does?
Dave Jones: No way. Sure looks in there, too. Let
Adam Curry: me just double check. I'm gonna save this. I
think so. It came up really fast on the sent tab. So um, that
seems like that would work. I mean, this is becoming something
really useful. Is heli pad is a is a is a very useful wagon at
this point. I mean, I run everything on it. Every show
runs on I'm exporting all the booths, you can start. There is
a little problem, though. I think it's I think the split kit
doesn't send the show it sends a song if you're if you're if it's
a time split, so that I can't do that. I can't sort that doesn't
show up on my sword. Does that make any sense? If I'm sorting
the spreadsheet, and I want to know, you know what that and so
I'm just sorting it for one podcast, like Bucha gram ball.
Then there'll be in the in the pivot table. So the song Yeah.
So then I have Yeah, so that doesn't that becomes unusable.
Yes. And there it is. Let me see. Yeah. That seems to work.
tirelessly, like
Dave Jones: because of my of my elegantly modular code base that
allowed this very just plugged right in.
Adam Curry: Yes, yes. And the interface of Karis right
through? It's great.
Dave Jones: He's been working on that for weeks. Yeah, I mean,
like, I don't know, he, I think he started it last year, like
before Christmas. But he's been working on that for a while.
Yeah.
Adam Curry: And just so people know, for him. Yeah, just so
people know how I use it, I just send a small split to my own
node at home so that I can because you get the full amount.
So you can you can manage all of the boosts coming in, whether it
goes to Alby or wherever found to wherever your wallet is, just
get a little little bit at home. I mean, it'd be great. If this
could integrate into Alby. I'm sure people would love that, if
that was possible.
Dave Jones: But I don't know how Alex, Alex has been, you've been
playing around with, with the, you've played around with the
breeze SDK lately, right.
Alecks Gates: Not too much, but I've looked at a lot.
Dave Jones: Because I wondered, you know, because I've always
wondered if we could hook. Like, if you read if you just fired
up, I've always had this vision, you know, like, you could just
fire up a helipad with nothing to connect to
Adam Curry: a heart. It just has it has a wallet right in there.
Dave Jones: And then it just spins up a green light.
Alecks Gates: If breeze SDK supported case, and that would
solve so many of the custodial issues we have is that you could
just you could just run and you could just run your own node
like that.
Dave Jones: He's not only Elon URL right now.
Alecks Gates: I mean, you could generate invoices, but I don't
know about oh, new URL.
Dave Jones: And we're gonna have to get Roy back on the show. So
we can figure that out. Because I mean, that that would be I
can't think of an easier solution. I mean, you you just
we, we put, I mean, we could really Jamelia
Adam Curry: apps would be born. Amelia,
Dave Jones: let me because you mean, you could think I mean,
think about it, you could just download. You can install
helipad. If I even threw a Docker image or something, you
could install helipad. And then it comes up and you're like,
Okay, I want to I want to node and bam, you just have one if if
it could do keys and that would be wasn't a perfect solution
wasn't
Adam Curry: the whole point of of green light that there was a
cloud element that would stay kind of like a watchtower that
would stay online and then will receive your key send, but it
can't send anything and then the minute you fire up your, your
green light portion that it then connects to that Watchtower?
Wasn't that the idea that I misunderstand that?
Dave Jones: Yeah, let me like, I don't know if the what I don't
know if it's the Watchtower concept came through or not. But
the idea is that as soon as you Yeah, when when you when a
payment was coming in, it would spin the node up, except the
payment and then and then pass it through, right?
Alecks Gates: Yeah, I do. And the only issue right now is to
use green light, you have to sign up and get a certificate.
And I don't know how accessible that will be for the average
user I want, I'm gonna find out. Because that would be really,
really great. But it's not just a plug and play solution yet.
Dave Jones: Because I mean, that that would apply to peer tube as
well, because you're in a tube. I mean, you could just, like
spin up, spin up a node and then you know, you're it's like, it's
not your keys. I mean, you're not managing anything. It's all
on the user side.
Alecks Gates: Mm hmm. Yeah, I'm waiting for the day. I can get
rid of my my Raspberry Pi note, because I just don't want to I
just don't have the time for it.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, my channels have been messed up for
a month now. And
Adam Curry: I can't let me help me help you. I can help you
Dave Jones: purchase index channel. It won't. It's not in
there offline all the time. Yeah, it's broken. Oh, yeah.
Adam Curry: No, that's but you're still on the Umbral.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I'm on the umbrella. Yeah, because it's my
podcast rig. Broken the doing too many things on one box roll
here.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I have no idea. I
had problems with Umbro and torx. And that always seemed to
be
Dave Jones: I'm not on tour. I'm on. I'm on clarinet, clarinet. I
got a clarinet channel to you. Yeah.
Adam Curry: I don't know. It's broke. It's broke. is broke. All
right, anyway. RPP you are a man of many talents. I appreciate
you.
Dave Jones: Yeah, this Yeah, that's a pretty that's a pretty
badass feature. Alex, you're on top categories?
Alecks Gates: Oh, absolutely.
Dave Jones: Because, I mean, I think we're there. I mean, think
we we were at this point where we need so we've got we've got
music medium now. And obviously other mediums, audiobooks, all
this kind of stuff with film. So the, the iTunes categories,
they're just not sufficient anymore. Because you need you
know, if you're going to be looking for music, that's, you
know, a specific genre. This, the, the limited set of Apple
categories are not going to help you much at all. So we I mean,
we're gonna have to have something. And I mean, I guess I
guess I can say it this way. I mean, like, it seems like
there's just to lay it out as best I can for for the
uninitiated here that we've thrown this tag around for what
a year and a half, two years, something like that. Three,
yeah, three, some kind of category tag. And I mean, you
could do to me, it really comes down to we need I don't see a
difference between reusing the podcasts reusing the RSS
category tag. But let me look at let me let me lay it out this
way. You got three options. You could literally hijack the
iTunes category tag itself and start sticking stuff in there
this noncompliant To me that's completely No, no way. Not gonna
do that. I think that will be cause mass confusion. And it's
not right. Somebody recommended using the RSS 2.0 category tag
itself. Honestly, that's the spec is confusing to me. Because
it's got all these references to like a domain attribute and a
taxonomy link back in all this stuff. I think that tag is
weird. And I don't like it. Well,
Alecks Gates: those are same issues hijacking the iTunes tag
because we don't know, what would break. Yeah,
Dave Jones: no, I agree. That's great. Yeah, yeah. I agree with
you. Because if, if we don't fully understand this tag and
how it's being used, well, then you can't just go in and start
doing Wild West stuff with it. No, I agree. And then you have.
So and and that's not really in podcast feeds anyway. So you're
going to feed generators and have to make a change,
regardless. So you might as well go with podcast with a podcast,
category tag, podcast, colon tag category or something like that.
And so there's not you know, so then, so then I think that's
where we landed in, it's like, okay, who, who wears these?
Where these categories are gonna come from? Are they going to
come from some preordained list somewhere? Are they going to be
free form? And I think, I think we're all I think we're both in
agreement. And James, and I think is also agreed in
everybody who involved in the discussion, that pain, it really
needs to be a free form thing, because we don't want to just
repeat, you know, redo the same. Here's a master list that
somebody else is in control of.
Alecks Gates: Yeah, and I understand. I mean, the main
argument against it is how do you know which categories to
surface? And I think my there's, there's two? I have two answers
to that, I think. And the first is, I think we should think of
them as hashtags. Just because that seems to be the most user
translatable idea to what we're actually doing. Whether or not
you call them categories, topics from the name doesn't matter.
But I think, I think it's a concept people are used to, and
it will directly translate to some of the other other things
we have going on, such as activity pub idea, and people
already used to being able to subscribe to a hashtag, and from
you know, Twitter, Mastodon, or whatever. And secondly, I'm
going to the discovery has to be done. But I think we can do it
in a way where you could build it and do the the podcast and
the index API to show me the trending, trending hashtags,
trending categories or something. And also, the pod
ping service I'm working on for, it's gonna have a unified push
and what push notifications for apps. I want to be able to do
notifications by hashtag as well. So we could we could have
some kind of decentralized, cool method of apps being able to
discover what hashtags are available and what's what's
trending.
Dave Jones: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
Alecks Gates: Yeah, good. Well, yeah, yeah. I think people are
confused. I think calling it a category just causes too much
confusion. It's like the yahoo, yahoo keywords like, I get it.
But you don't have to, you don't have to use them as categories
in your UI, right? You can use them as small like filters.
Dave Jones: Or labels. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. How would
you think how would you call them? Oh, really? Oh, yeah.
That's right. Because they had the topics thing in the, in
their dinned directory. Did you see Nathan's post about using
the Wikimedia identifiers?
Alecks Gates: Yes, and I'll be honest, I think it's, I don't
hate the idea. But if it gets too complicated for the average
user, including me, it might be better for you know, a host or,
or whatever to do it behind the scenes. And we would just use
natural language as it is. And I think I think it would be
important to like have a language attribute to and then
if people want to provide a service that has that translates
them to the wicked data identifiers that they gave me
might be a better idea.
Dave Jones: Sort of translating the translation in both ways.
What
Adam Curry: exactly is the wiki data stuff? What is that? I
didn't see the post.
Alecks Gates: If How do we explain it? I would call it a
data scientist way of analyzing natural language. Okay, it's
basically a way of classifying words using a human made agenda.
hers don't
Dave Jones: fully understand it. And no, I don't I don't
understand you. But I read a read the linked the linked URL.
And I thought, I thought I understood it until about like
this third section down. And then I like I don't I clearly
don't know what this means. So I can't. Yeah, I don't know. I
mean, it looks. I mean, it can't it can't be that difficult. I
think I think the idea was to use like, to put some sort of
guardrails around the possible, you know, the possible values
that could be in these in these, I'm just going to call them
topics just to keep us all sane instead of categories. When you
have a seed, then I don't want to get caught up in naming
whatever. So like, the, the topic names, just
Adam Curry: just call them what they are. They're hashtags that
the whole world understands what a hashtag is.
Dave Jones: Okay, hashtags. So well, Nathan says about
deduplication. Yeah, and I think that's where it was. It's about
guardrails. And so if you can, if you can classify the possible
values that would be contained in these things, sort of, like,
I guess you could, my understanding through reading
through that document was that it was sort of like a Dewey
Decimal System. For possible words, that go with that go into
a overall like taxonomy of, of things. So it's like, okay,
music. If you're in the music, if you're in the Music Section
of the Dewey Decimal catalog, the taxonomy would say, Okay,
now your subcategories are going to be or your your sub, you
know, indexes are going to be metal, rock, easy listening,
these kinds of things. But then if you switch over to the
literature, category of the wiki, data identifiers, or
whatever, now you're talking about, all of a sudden, now
yours now your subclasses are English literature kill, you
know, Celtic literature, the ancient Chinese literature. So I
think, I think that's really the idea. If you had sort of a
premade list of those things that you could like seed with,
which I don't, I don't think it's a bad idea to have like
something that automatically some sort of hybrid approach
where you have this automatic suggestion sort of table to help
guide people to the thing that they're looking for,
Adam Curry: is that external service that would just make
sense for that to exist?
Dave Jones: Again, I mean, if we all agreed on the same sort of
bootstrap list, it doesn't prevent anybody. Do you agree
with this? Alex? It doesn't. I mean, if we had something like
that, it wouldn't prevent anybody from putting new things
into it. It's just that it sort of like, it's trying to guide
you towards an agreed upon value.
Alecks Gates: Yeah, I mean, I would, I would argue that all
languages, but it doesn't have to be part of the spec. You
could just have it you can have lists.
Dave Jones: LSVT. What you mean? Yeah, yeah, you, we don't have
to define where these things come from. But there could just,
it could just be an agreed upon like, this is which you can use
the list that you want. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I
mean, I think we're on the right track. How do you if you're
going to implement like, imagine you're implementing this in peer
tube? What do you think? What do you think it would look like
from a UI perspective?
Alecks Gates: I actually did, and then I removed it. We
already have tags in peer tube and you could just type in
whatever you want.
Adam Curry: And does auto auto complete with something that
already exists?
Alecks Gates: I don't remember I haven't looked at it in a while
but you just edited the video and there's a whole you actually
got the column tags if you look at Dave's live live channel
right now. He actually he literally has PHP podcasts,
index podcasting, podcasting, 2.0 and rust shadows
Adam Curry: are really dumb tags that you can play using those
tags.
Dave Jones: You can't or not a creative
Adam Curry: messing with you brother.
Dave Jones: Okay, cool. Well, maybe maybe that's what we go
for. Maybe we say podcast, maybe this maybe the name of this tag
is podcast. And then you know, just for just for giggles here
and then we and then we start because what I feel like it's
what's going to happen here is the the first people that
implement this obviously appear to have already got it but
you're going to make gets more exposed and stuff is done like
is from a hosting perspective the first people that are going
to go into this is going to be like Dobby das and wave lake
that have music I mean that I'm sure they're gonna probably jump
on this pretty quick because they need and Steven B because
they need they they're really that's really the place where
there's the most pain right now but then this is applicable to
way more than just that but as far as like immediate use case
this is the this is the place where it's needed the most
because it's it's really a discovery issue
Alecks Gates: I think we all want to look for music.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yes. Speaking of music Oh, shall we play a
little ditty?
Dave Jones: Yeah, who chose this day? It was a you Yeah,
Adam Curry: I mean I'm sorry Alex I should have asked you.
English subterfuge unless unless you want to give me a name right
now and I can look it up real quick and I got nothing Yeah, I
got nothing. I'm going to be on this guy's podcast I think this
week or next week because he reached out to me and a number
of other music podcasts are very upset respectful I want to make
sure he was very respectful but very upset about playing songs
and podcasts including his and using compression and it's it's
very familiar complaint to me because ever since am radio that
your song will not sound the same as when you mix it in the
studio. And if you listen to today's top 40 radio they even
spin up the songs add some reverb Believe it or not to and
and compress it and a lot of that was done early on because
the harder the more compressed and the harder the sound is the
more output you get out of the transmitter literally but he was
like He's really upset and so I'm looking forward to to
discussing that with him and meanwhile I want to play one of
his songs lots of compression here on the show if I have not
turning off my compression he's Jimmy V he's from the valley
verse This is sweet time on podcasting 2.0
Fall God forever
Unknown: so bad all the sweet thing good luck
suddenly it happened
Sweet
Nachi
everybody Y'all
Adam Curry: if you are not using a modern podcast app, what is
wrong with you go and get a modern podcast app that does the
magic wallet switching the super chapters that are also known,
because any stats that you were streaming anything you boosted
during that song, go to the artist, we switch the wallets
and everything goes to Jimmy V. And whatever splits he has, in
his system. He male, he gave me this analogy. He said, Imagine,
I build a hot rod in my garage. And then I take it to your car
show. And then you spray paint all over it. And I said, let me
let me give you this analogy. You come to my car show I take
it onto the track. I get it really muddy. And then
everyone's flocking to your stand to see how beautiful your
hot rod is. Remember when you go home and you say you you bought
the record, he was like oh man, this there's all this stuff I'd
never heard before. That's because radio compresses stuff.
And there's reasons for that.
Dave Jones: It's I mean, I think this not a great analogy. I
don't think we spray painting cars. No, no,
Adam Curry: but But what we're doing is we're changing the
universe is what's happening here. This I mean, we have 20
shows now I think that at least I know of music shows Yeah 20
music
Dave Jones: shows while the wave wave like themselves are and
they got a music Yeah, they
Adam Curry: got a music show out. Yeah, Powell man is Yeah, I
was listening
Dave Jones: to booty call or whatever that was that Mike
Newman put out earlier booty call. No, that's not it. It's
some though.
Adam Curry: It's a mood wave.
Dave Jones: booty shaking.
Adam Curry: I haven't heard it.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, there's a bunch of stuff
out there. That's why we need this like we need because, like
saw like lightning thrashes. Yeah. Homegrown handle show, he
has an easy way to find metal. Yes, exactly. Find the middle.
Right
Adam Curry: now. You know, the influx of the inflow of music is
manageable enough. So every week I'll go in, I'll listen to all
the new stuff. Find your stuff. I go into split kit, which are
ln beats, but split kit is easy, because then I just start
building my songs. I want a little list. And it's
chronological order. So right at the top, it'll show you the most
recently added and I think now wave Lake is adding them
automatically. I think. I don't know that. Yeah, I think you're
right. Yes. So Mike Newman is on break. And he's got a reprieve.
Yes, he does. And I've just listened to him. You know, just
click on the artist, then sometimes just one song.
Sometimes it's a couple of songs. And you know, I just
can't it's like needle dropping and like, oh, okay, like this.
Click, I'll add that to my list. And just go on. Now, sometimes I
can see like, if it's, what's an example today to go into music,
and you'll see something like, you know, awesome techno snazzy
songs. I'm like, okay, I can probably just check it for a
second. I might not have to listen to all of them. That's
Dave Jones: just in and out. I
Adam Curry: mean, yeah, it's just not for me. The door. Yeah.
Oh, by the way, Abby Muir who I played last week she's not from
Sweden. She's from Australia. I was notified
Dave Jones: were you notified by sweet Yes, we did. The Australia
Adam Curry: the Australians called yeah they were pissed
Dave Jones: let me she's number one on the
Adam Curry: number one gets indexed out top how many what is
the top what are the what is the top today's top two honoree
today? Of 203? Yes, but here I see something I don't know yet.
The flat dancer the unusual cats project so I love these cats
project is a usual usual the usual Yeah, I know. Alan see
Paul. He seemed number four serenity. As I told him, that's
another instrumental track. I played his track. He put on
Instagram he said perspective. Two weeks on value for value. I
made more money than 10 years. Perspective. Yeah, instrumental
than he plays instrumental last time I played an instrumental
song on top 40 was Axel F with a theme from Miami Vice or Yan,
holler. Whatever, Yan Hummer? Yeah, yeah, no, it was Beverly
Hills Cop was Axel F. And then after that came on Hummer with
theme from Miami Vice. That was the last time I played anything
instrumental,
Dave Jones: though, dude, you've got to put you've got to play
some of this. The flat dancer thing. Like that's a pretty
killer track, jazz or something? Yeah, like the usual cats.
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. I don't have I don't have it. Which one
the flight
Dave Jones: was played like this biggest puppy hitting the door
just picking picking on it for a second.
Adam Curry: Okay, I got you
Dave Jones: to stand up bass is what that is.
Adam Curry: Bom bom bom bom bom. Nice. Alright, cool.
Dave Jones: That's it. It's a mood waiting to happen.
Adam Curry: Got it. That's a booty. shakin right there. All
right, let's check that out for sure. For sure. I gotta do a
boosted ground ball this week. Okay, yeah.
Dave Jones: Alex pod ping over activity pub. Does that fill you
with the with, with dread? Or does that sound interesting?
Alecks Gates: Can you elaborate?
Dave Jones: Yes, I can. So I had this, I had this idea because
I'm in my head is in activity pub mode right now. And I'm, I'm
trying to get away from that. So they can get back to doing index
work. But it's like, I'm just consumed with it. So I was
thinking, if if pod pings were also deliverable over activity
pub, then we could use activity pub as, as, as another medium to
get in Pub Sub ability so that you could subscribe to something
like to you could subscribe to the show.
Adam Curry: up on me. How about how about, can I just trip your
mind? About subscribe to a hashtag? That comes through on
pod ping?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. Okay, yeah, like
that. You could, we could do that too. Like you say, if we
combine them say, hey, you know, hashtag but so that you can say,
okay, these shows I want to get pod pings for. And they would
have like a custom activity po type object type for the pod
pain. And it could serve as a sub subscription mechanism.
Through the data bridge.
Alecks Gates: The only issue I can see would be this is not
globally deliverable. It's not like it's not it's not a global
message bus, right. Some things could be missed. Maybe instances
might start blocking things. I don't know if that's really
relevant. Because if you follow something, that's all you would
need. I have to think about it. But I'm not totally against the
idea.
Dave Jones: Can I Can I ask hey, that's all I need. For Alex to
say. I'm totally against the idea. That's, that's the
daylight I was looking for.
Adam Curry: I need to ask a question day. Four. So
publishing today's episode, what do I use as the route posts?
Because I'm still a little confused. Anything, anything?
Well, how does that how does that integrate them with people
who are following the show?
Dave Jones: Okay, so the latest version of the bridge will just
take whatever is in the route, post, whatever's in the social
interact tag URL. And we'll just put that as a link in the post.
Oh,
Adam Curry: god. Okay. Now I understand how it works. So we
can just click right when you subscribe to the show. So you
know at what is it 249966 Whatever it is at a P dot
podcast index.org then when that pops up, it'll have a link and
that's the and that's the link that I put in as the root post.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and it can be linked to any activity. Okay,
Adam Curry: thank you all right. Now I understand like oh, well
good. Well, this solves oh man love that. By the way. Lex
Friedman is using pod ping turns out you know, Lex Friedman is
huge. podcaster. So Andrew Brown Black Tiger. Yeah, the Brandon
black. Andrew Gromit just posted on the on the social and he's a
screenshot of Lex Friedman's URL, and it says pod ping uses
pod ping equals true. Really? Yeah. I don't know. I don't
know.
Dave Jones: Doesn't say where to get investigative investigate
this.
Adam Curry: Likes to show that I mean, yeah, these are
interesting little tidbits. By the way. Andrew Gromit. I see
your I see your boosts I see your tests boost their show.
What
Dave Jones: is it What's he cooking up?
Adam Curry: I don't while he's he's he's still cooking up the
podcast as well wonder what's the RSS feed? Let's take a look
at his feed. What is he using?
Dave Jones: Oh, he's Oh no. Here we go. Yeah, no. Oh,
Adam Curry: he's on Bloomberg. Bloomberg. Powerful. Read our
press. Oh, how about that?
Dave Jones: Todd delivering the good? Yes. Bang,
Adam Curry: bang. Alright, very cool. We go. Very cool.
Dave Jones: What? What's new users pod things? Like cool.
Todd. What's new on the pod pain front? Alex?
Alecks Gates: Well, nothing really. That's a good thing,
right? Yeah, running. This version has been running for
Adam Curry: over a year. Now, what's the uptime? How many how
many hours up to how many minutes uptime?
Alecks Gates: Well, Dave had to, actually there's no downtime,
which centers on hive, technically, but they've had to
do some updates, I think last year, but otherwise,
Dave Jones: I actually rebooted everything about a month ago.
But before then it had been like, I think a year while since
that service.
Alecks Gates: I'm really proud of that. It's so stable, and no
one really even thinks about it, which is what you want guy
Adam Curry: precise, just stuff that works.
Alecks Gates: Yeah. So. But in reality, we do have to think
about an update for the mediums, particularly, or the publisher.
So if we want the publisher medium, or whatever we decide to
call it. I think we're, we need to add that to pod ping. And
then there were a couple others, I think, who wanted the, I can't
I can't remember what it was. But there's a couple, there's a
couple of meetings we have to add. And that's it. There's,
Adam Curry: like
Dave Jones: course, or whatever. Yes, of course. That's
Alecks Gates: right. Okay.
Adam Curry: So, sir de nonnamous, who created being
at.io, which is basically he's ingested every transcript from
no agenda, every show notes, because I published an OPML. All
the image is he's got everything in there. And he has a search
function. Hey, I gotta read it. Well, he's, you know, it's a
search function. And, but it would be great to have some kind
of large language model baked out or as they call it now
extended? No, is it? Yeah, I think it's called extended
language model. This is a new hip term. So when he was when,
when I published, so when I so what comes after the fact I
publish the the transcript comes later. Right, I put a dummy file
in and then a dummy file, and it put one chapter in. And then
Dred Scott goes and does the chapters. And then after 30
minutes, or whatever, I upload the full transcript. And so I
hit update. But I don't think when I hit the pod ping, does
that just create an update? Reason code?
Alecks Gates: Yes, yes. And it won't. apps won't know that
there's no update to the chapters without checking the
zero. Right? I do I do have a solution for that. Okay. It's
called if you go to the page or go to the pod pinning hive
writer, GitHub. I think it's the the update, external reason
code. And it basically, basically, the idea is to take a
hash of the of the URL, and send a pod pain when you update
something external to the feed, that note that notifies apps
that something has changes. So it would be chapters, images,
transcripts, all the above Ah,
Adam Curry: beautiful. Well, that's exactly the answer he's
looking for. We just have to make it. So
Alecks Gates: that would be I'm all for doing that as soon as
possible. If we agree to do it.
Adam Curry: I would love it. Because that's, you know,
there's just certain things that come after the fact chapters.
You know, there's all kinds of different types of chapters that
add even with the reflex service with the often disputed reflex
service of adding a you know, putting the booths not at the
table of contents, but into into a chapter marker. You know, that
updates on the fly as well.
Dave Jones: See, this is the update. exe. Yes. An indication
that an existing RSS feed with a defined podcast good has changed
externally available resource given good must be okay. Yeah.
Yeah, this makes sense. Makes sense of
Alecks Gates: doing it that way. Is it woodworkers some some like
IPFS as well. So I'm not trying to try and keep a future proof.
Adam Curry: Nice.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, right. Okay. Yeah, this might Yeah,
this makes sense. Yeah, we'll have to get it we're gonna have
to get back to pod paying whenever, maybe, maybe, maybe
timeline on that, for me would be to kind of get back into the
after face seven, because then we can figure out if we, which
published like which mediums we need, and then we can just
revisit it and do it. Kind of hit that all at once. If you're
ready for it.
Alecks Gates: Let's do it. Part three is my favorite subject.
Adam Curry: is shall we thank thanks a few people. Oh, yeah,
sure. I'm gonna run through some of the live boosts we've been
receiving on my fancy new heli pad by the way Eric P P. It
still shows the install was version Oh dot one dot 11 But it
shows Oh dot one dot 10 on the interface just FYI little little
bug feedback inside baseball bully steed 4444 Ah podcasting
2.0 homegrown hits variety show v Furby little promo there yeah
70 and 76 Freedom booths from blueberry I'm loving podcast
guru and the live value time split so cool. So very deeply
legal. Enjoying some Jimmy V in the boardroom and there's Dobby
das with 3000 SATs and what's he boosting from podcast guru as
well boosting Jimmy V LIVE via podcast guru with live wallet
switching 19 value recipients he really has 19 value recipients
Dave Jones: you want to know why lb goes down? That's this
blueberry that's
Adam Curry: I wonder if that's that's that Jimmy V i don't have
no we don't have 19 dogs so I guess he so we switched to 19
value recipients love it. Geez. Dred Scott 4567 from pod verse
and he says love you Adam hashtag SATs back. Boost me
boost me on cast thematic and I'll send you some back 8888
from a Chris You know, on pod verse with Alex gates on the
show. For those who are anti noster I challenged them to
build a competing solution to nip 47 Pull requests 685 which
allows any podcast player to push payment out info out into
any wallet, including non custodial wallets. This includes
keys and splits custom key custom value and any TLV
records. LB is fantastic. But having backups is a good idea.
Okay, Does anyone understand what that is?
Dave Jones: No, no, no.
Adam Curry: Nip 47 685 47
Dave Jones: net 47 And what was the 685
Adam Curry: nostre wallet connect extensions?
Dave Jones: Oh noster wallet connect okay describes a way for
clients to access remote lightning wallet, their
standardized protocol.
Alecks Gates: Don't Don't Don't get me started on Nastar. It's
just
Dave Jones: they think he's kind of want to
Adam Curry: see what happens when you poke the bear. All
right, but
Alecks Gates: yes, it's just it's just a way of using
centralized servers to publish HTTP endpoints. It doesn't solve
anything new.
Adam Curry: Moving on to blueberry with 6666 I'm happy to
move on. It should be noted we have a severe overpopulation of
goats in the greenroom. And we need your help all boost. A
goats are getting dropped from 666 to six six this coming
Monday on beyond the schemes. That's right fools. This is an
ad Episode One
Dave Jones: snip 47
Adam Curry: That's right fools episode 187 We'll see a fire
sale on goats they've got to go okay and blueberry comes in with
17,776 That's shout out to Hey citizen for the tip on how to
get lightning control going off the computer. Oh yeah, that is
kind of cool. So be sent a video when a boost comes through then
all of a sudden some lights flash in the studio. I like
that. You saw those videos.
Dave Jones: Did you see that Alex that he did you see what he
posted?
Alecks Gates: No, but I want to
Adam Curry: Yeah, he's using DMX protocol to fire off lights
right? This is quite literally gonna be lit we got another
crazy idea for new type of boosts So be watching for to
debut on homegrown hit soonish Okay. Salty crayon comes in how
do you boardroom with the road ducks 2222 from pod verse. How
do you from the northeast corner of the Texas Hill Country the
fountain split percentages are out of whack I don't have over
1,000% on my note for splits. This is this is something Dobby
Das is working on with fountain to correct no errors on my E
they're coming through break new flag release for Texas to the
Biden administration F around and find out in the pipe go
podcasting. Whoa. I saw a lot
Dave Jones: of is a lot of drunk donations gonna It's Saturday,
Adam Curry: you know it's a different crowd in the
boardroom. It's like everyone came in their casual slacks you
know, like came in jeans, little buzz, you know, like, hey, we
coming in from podcast Guru 500 SATs from Sockeye the horse and
cue another salty crayon with an Abby boost. Then there's a test
boost from me and And I think well, there's one from five
hours ago. So you have that one. That was a question a topic for
Alex. So I think we can move it over to you, Dave.
Dave Jones: Okay, well, let me let me hit some papers first,
because we've got. I mentioned last week we lost a big donor.
And yeah, I was I was incorrect, because, but Buzzsprout can't
cancel their $500 a month donation. Because they were
going to add a news monthly donation of $1,000. So
Adam Curry: we just got $2,000. From from bessborough. Yes.
Sakala 20 is blade only Impala, guys, thank you so much. Yeah,
that that. That really, that is big. Thank you. Yeah, that's a
massive value that you're giving us there. And
Dave Jones: congrats to them. Because that blog said the
transcript tag was what?
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, they brought it to the party for
sure. Because
Dave Jones: I think that was the first tag we worked on in the
namespace. And it's because they were already trial running it
when, when when the namespace was created, they were already
trial running that tag with podcast with Xavier from podcast
addict. So they were doing some testing with it. And they had,
they had just kind of rolled it out the door. And then the
namespace came along and they're like, Hey, let's just go ahead
and put this into the namespace. Thank God since there Yeah, what
Adam Curry: was the wasn't chapters from a different
namespace
Dave Jones: chapters, we inherited the format from an app
called Mac called podcast chapters for the Mac.
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. Right. That's what it was. Yes. Yeah.
Dave Jones: We also the party's not over because of Marco
Harmon. He's back with $500 again this
Adam Curry: man we are just hammering it with the value
Thank you. And just because it was kind of slow the past couple
of shows. So this is very welcome. And
Dave Jones: I'm hoping that I'm hoping that another benefit of
of Apple adopting 2.0 tags it's gonna be that that guy over cash
Yeah, yeah. will become more comfortable with with doing
these things as well. And so we'll get more broad adoption
that
Adam Curry: he might want to, you know, surpass them by adding
just the thought. We got
Dave Jones: one we get one weekly pay pal from Travis
halls. He says thank you $7.17 Thank you.
Adam Curry: Thank you Travis.
Dave Jones: Appreciate it gets a boost. We get 10,000 SATs. Yeah,
me too. Nathan I get the Pocket Casts is there another one that
said that they were going to be putting in a bunch of stuff and
then they did that ever truly. Yeah, that's yeah.
Adam Curry: They and they rolled out subscriptions for themselves
for themselves.
Dave Jones: Anonymous five 500 SATs as a great song that was
for during the song last week all right. Yep, just listening
send a 1776 through fountain and he says I need that Bill Gates
AI clip boosting episode 163
Adam Curry: It's published it's on it you can go to Bing it.io
and look for Bill Gates and then look for Eclipse and you'll find
it
Dave Jones: Chris last oh this Chris from Jupiter broadcasting
68 848 through fountain he says great work guys really cooking
with clean burning propane these days? Most appreciate it. Chris.
Let's see who got 1701 through my from my Dale cast thematic.
He says alternate feed tag.
Adam Curry: Yes. Alternate feed tag. Boost. Alternate feed tag.
Yeah.
Dave Jones: We're We're on it. Mike. I'm posting in the in the
GitHub back in the namespace now. munei Gomez 4321 says
through pod verse. He says you guys are making so much sass.
Here's some more says
Adam Curry: Yeah. Give me some sass. Give me some sass streams
stream no SATs.
Dave Jones: He's both been 1337 leet boost through cast Matic.
He says, Could you make an API endpoint that returns a JSON
hash of all the bucket like things where each object has a
title as the key and a sub object with the URL and a
description of what it is aka something like stats URL, this
description URL, this other thing? Oh, okay. That's actually
an
Adam Curry: what is that? I don't understand. So
Dave Jones: he's wanting an A, he's wanting an endpoint in the
API where he can record where you can request all the various
bits of stuff that we published an object storage. They're just
sort of like single downloads like a stats file is located
here. The podcast, let the value provider stats page is here,
that
Adam Curry: info endpoint. Yeah, it makes
Dave Jones: sense. I can do that. Yeah. Because I've been
looking for a way to make that stuff more easily, easily
findable to Yeah. They make a note of that.
Adam Curry: Info API endpoint.
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah, sure. Gene that sounds like a great
idea. Cole McCormick 3333 through fountain he says the
wave Lake talk is interesting. I just had an interview with an
artist who considered wavelike to be posting his music on the
Lightning Network. Had to lay him in on the podcasting
revolution noster was never a thing in my opinion. So
hopefully they stopped talking about it and be a modern music
host similar to pod home. Oh,
Adam Curry: that is kind of my dream.
Dave Jones: At just feel like honestly, with with all of the
Bitcoin based companies I feel like nostra has just been a
gigantic distraction of time and money.
Adam Curry: There was a interesting interview on the
power the Phantom phantom power business hour, I think and they
had they had on Jay 50 fives wife, who does marketing. And it
was kind of interesting, because it became more and more apparent
that you know that they're really a solution looking for a
problem. Yeah, and everyone sees it, you know, the Bitcoin thing
is just, it's just like, you know, it opens up a wallet when
you click on the on the ZAP thing. It's like, okay, you
know, can't we do that on Twitter too?
Dave Jones: Let's liquid this liquid. You said Alex is like,
it's not bringing anything new to the table. It's just the same
old thing.
Adam Curry: And so Domus has 25,000 users that download I
don't know if that's active users. It feels when I look at
Nasr. It feels like 5000 tops. Just doesn't doesn't feel like
much of me. And then the the unique selling point is, you
know, censorship resistant. Okay.
Dave Jones: But I would argue that I would argue that activity
Pub is more censorship resistant than Nasri all day long. I mean,
yeah.
Adam Curry: I would not take the other side of that argument.
Dave Jones: Yeah, because you're right. It's because it made us
centuries, like, like Alex said, is centralized HTTP. So
Adam Curry: this age has spoken.
Dave Jones: This age has repeated what Alex said. Gene
been 111 SATs says I'm digging the sound and feel of this song.
Nice find Adam.
Adam Curry: Oh, that is that Abby again? Probably Yeah,
probably. So she's already at the top of the chart.
Dave Jones: I tried Bootsy gene, again, 2222 pieces, I tried
boosting about value blocks and broke stuff because it was over
700 characters IE, here's a link to the content of the original
boost, instead, you're gonna get a link to something.
Adam Curry: Here we're gonna have there's limits to what you
should be doing in boosting Graham's. He's the people who
sang the same gene being is the kind of guy who sends me a one
gig movie through email. Cool, man, look at it.
Dave Jones: Gene bean has a lot to say say, I wonder I wonder if
this is too long. So speaking of value blogs, what became of
making an API endpoint that provides a version of my RSS
feed enhanced with value blocks shown via podcast or wallet? Did
we say we were going to do that? I don't
Adam Curry: think so.
Dave Jones: He said something about training pot home and we'd
love for them to be able to import my fee that doesn't have
oh, I know what he's talking. I know what he's talking about.
And he's talking about like what we're having. Where for podcasts
to quality if you wanted to move the splits for the old episodes
wouldn't be there. Yeah. Oh, right. We're we're gonna export
it out. There yeah, I forgot to do that. And I don't like this
episode is hashtag Dave to do. I got home. Yes, seriously, I got
homework now. Was the XML.
Alecks Gates: Maybe we should put that hashtag in the item.
Oh, there's actually every episode.
Dave Jones: You're right. Because every episode, my list
gets longer. I think this is this is correct. It will ruin
your list though. Yes, I'll just ignore it like I always do. 2022
Jacob, do pod verse. Fantastic idea to use time splits and
through them direct messaging to advertisers.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, it worked. It looks like looks like
pod pod news. Got more advertising just keeps on going
with the with Hindenburg.
Dave Jones: Yeah, Franco, that's Franco Celerio for cast ematic
is sent 500 says he says Girls Rock.
Adam Curry: Okay, Frank. I replied to him, actually, that
showed up his reply. I replied to him in helipad. Alright, so
yes, here's the 1000s That's yes they do.
Dave Jones: You're out of control now
Adam Curry: I'm sending money back send me money I'll send it
back.
Dave Jones: Now you're gonna you're this is just another way
for you to lose first to send lots of money to people.
Adam Curry: I love it so much fun. Franco again
Dave Jones: 15,000 SATs this time he says Love and SATs
thanks Franco. Oh, and we got a we got comic strip blogger to
deliver an order 34,000 new fountain he says howdy bros,
David Adam. Ah, no agenda social, a little server that
could until it couldn't shared memes, please. That's like
saying you contributed to culture before wedding chain
meals. But hey, thanks for the memories nodes into social
you'll be remembered like that one song everyone skips in their
playlist but never deletes what now? fallacy is be just three
letters on X formerly known as Twitter for cartoons without
baboons or visit his blog at www dot CSV dot lol exclamation
point. Yo CSV
Adam Curry: All right. CSV and we have a too late booster grams
coming in from Nathan g 2222. Dave came here to build a bridge
and work on phase seven. And he's all Outerbridge. Yeah.
Dave Jones: And I've never had a bridge I've always got more
bridge
Adam Curry: and DS laughs came at DS last he's my man DS laughs
He's he's in the valley verse Valley for value music little
cool little bits of show mixes for no agenda. 1000 SATs he says
Since leaving my corporate jobs this is the only board meeting I
can sit through. Much love to the podcasters. Understandable.
All
Dave Jones: right, Lincoln sent a note in his 20,000 says that
he says well regarding question for Alex forgot to edit my boost
amount. But I don't see a question for Alex anywhere. Do
you? Yeah, I
Adam Curry: have it here. Hold on a second. Hold on me scroll
down. Question topic for Alex. to opine on. The use of a
specific boost bot has been contentious. Boy, Alex get
ready. As it has been. And I know we all know Alex. I love
Alex. But I know that he's right. Get Rudy Alex, the use of
a specific boost bot has been contentious as it is seen as a
hack and not aligned with open source and decentralization.
Instead, it will be preferable to share boost messages and
amounts to an open protocol like activity pub for transparency,
interoperability and sustainability in the podcasting
ecosystem. Oh, podcasting
Alecks Gates: found on fountain boost. Some comments? Yes, I
Adam Curry: think that's what the what is meant they could
Alecks Gates: they could publish to the activity problem. They
don't. That's all there is to it. And also, if you
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, that's another they can do. So tell me
about what yeah. Tell me about that. Alex, because you're
messaging him up at the about that earlier about playlist?
Alecks Gates: Yeah. Typically, we should probably check again.
But my understanding is they don't make their they don't
publish their playlist as RSS feeds, which would be really
easy to do. And that would allow the players to be shared across
to apps.
Adam Curry: Well, you know, what's interesting, is we're
seeing both fountain and true fans kind of emerging as
platforms, which I'm, I have thoughts about because, you
know, there's so there's no take true fans as the example. Sam
Sethi says, Oh, look, your publisher feed is here. And so I
have not published anything. He has made a reasonable estimation
of which shows I am the publisher of and they show up in
their platform, and I can go into some back end admin and I
can change those. And I think they are exportable or they will
be exportable as an RSS feed. It's just interesting.
Interesting how he is in I think he actually calls him that calls
true fans now a platform. But the the playlists what I don't
like about what I've seen in the playlist on fountain is they are
the getting a split that doesn't really go through the split
system.
Dave Jones: Oh, it's like an internal allocation believe so
yeah.
Adam Curry: Which is not correct. Really the transparency
that we desire? Because I think podcast I think music playlists
are going to be very big. We have a medium and we have a
medium type forum. Is that music L is that a playlist? Is it
music? L is that what it was? Yep. Yep, music L so publishing
those back would be great. And then and then put the split in
from the person who created it so they can they can start Uh,
as more apps can ingest this, the artists do better and your
quote unquote customer gets money back into their, into
their wallet on fountain. So yeah, exploitability would be
nice. I agree. And we
Alecks Gates: could do it for clips to say yes. So they live
clips. They could publish them if they wanted to.
Adam Curry: Well, I think we should nominate you to their
board. I'm gonna buy some shares and put you in as an activist
investor.
Alecks Gates: Oh, that I'd have to like Master so. Wow.
Adam Curry: will take over. Do we have any? Any one offs?
David?
Dave Jones: Yes and monthly. Definitely do. drips got $15 Big
Bruce Wayne of podcasting. He's got Michael Kimmerer $5.33 Thank
you, Michael Jordan. Dunnville $10. Think Jordan. Kevin Bay
$3.43 from the monthly endowment fund. Yes. James Sullivan. $10.
Christopher Raymer $10 Shawn McCune $20 Thank you. Shawn
Cohen glotzbach $5. Michael Gagan $5 In Charles current $5
group,
Adam Curry: very good group thank you all for supporting
podcasting 2.0 The podcast is the gateway to your support for
the entire project. Everything goes towards servers etc David
Adam take nothing we will give away some liquidity if you need
it, if you need a channel from because we definitely want to
support people using other types of wallets. Just to decentralize
more and more hit me up Adam at podcasts index.org and
mccurry.com If you need liquidity happy to help you out
people like no I don't know where to get liquidity. This is
what we're here for. It's all on the node it stays there for that
very reason. You can go to podcast index.org down at the
bottom there's two red donate buttons one for your on for the
massive amounts of unchained Bitcoin people have been wanting
to send us and never do. And the other one is for your Fiat fun
coupons for PayPal, we really appreciate all of our
supporters. And appreciate you Alex gates for all that you have
done since pretty much day one Haven't you been here from day
one? I forgot what When did you come into our into our orbit?
Alecks Gates: I was a little late. I started the episode 2021
Oh, really after after I sort of know genitive actually, that's
kind of when I wanted to make the podcast into an oil fields.
And that's kind of when I started with Dave was mostly
about the alternating closure and I fixed it
Adam Curry: Oh, I gotta fix it gotta fix what he's doing.
Dave Jones: I mean, it's most less mostly how this goes. I
have something than an Alex fixes pretty much the way this
this. We
Adam Curry: appreciate you very much brother for all all that
you're doing for for the project and for podcasting because it
really is you making a huge difference in the world. A lot
of people take it just take it.
Alecks Gates: I just want to build the apps I want to use. So
what's all this?
Dave Jones: That's how you get the best stuff.
Adam Curry: Sure is. Brother Dave, thank you so much.
Appreciate you. And thank you both for for coming to the board
meeting on Saturday. Thank you everyone else in the in the
board room for being with us. And we'll have a regular regular
board meeting next Friday. So please join us there. Thank you
so much Gent.
Dave Jones: Yep. Thanks, man. Happy happy. This. It's been a
good week.
Adam Curry: It hasn't been it has been a good week. Everybody.
Congratulations on the progress. It has been a good Yeah,
Dave Jones: I think Alex is right. I think it's valid. I
think I think the thing with Apple was validating for for
everybody in the project.
Adam Curry: They said they said the big boys will never come in.
We showed them didn't wait. See you next week on the board
meeting till then adios.
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.org For more information, podcasts. Oh my gosh.