Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 February 23 2024 Episode 168
Hello, everybody. Hello everybody in the boardroom
Welcome to the official board meeting of podcasting point oh,
everything happening at podcasting index.org That new
fancy website podcasting two.org Of course, all the things
happening with a namespace we have a special guest today. One
of the members of the board and everything happening in podcasts
index dot social. This is the boardroom that runs its own LLM
on local machines. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the
Texas Hill Country and an Alabama the man who is looking
to survive against the ESPYs AI say hello to my friend on the
other end. Mr. Dave Joe.
Dave Jones: Nobody survives against CSB on a did I mean,
we'll just make a mockery of view with his cartoons
Adam Curry: did I see him typing a prompt and it created an RSS
feed with an enclosure is that what is that what I saw? Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And then somebody else said, Hey, try
this. And he's like, No, you do it. Okay, I don't want to.
Adam Curry: Oh, that already sounds super suspicious.
Dave Jones: I've been playing with the NVIDIA chat with RTX
tool.
Adam Curry: Do you? Do you have the card that you need for that?
Yeah, you have an NVIDIA card. Mm hmm.
Dave Jones: Get a 3050 It's not a powerful card, but you don't
need much you'll all you need is is eight, you need a 3000 series
card. And you need which 3050 is like $200 so you can get like
you know a 3000 series RTS card minimum and you need a minimum
eight gigs of RAM on board cards. So that's what this has.
So you can run it nuts. I mean, it's not fast, but it's me but
it's doable. But the cool like the interesting thing is like
use it loads up all the stuff and it's got a pretty beefy
model it's like 30 Gig oh that's quite large. Yeah, it's pretty
big it's the Miss Mistral model Yeah. And it was I don't know
God who knows with all these local these LLM 's they have
like a genealogy tree that's hard to trace now but but it's
got it's got a big model and then you put this guy in a
folder and you drop in PDFs txt files or Word documents into
this folder and then have it regenerate regenerate this ra G
which is like it takes the model and then it applies the model to
your local set of material. So then you're you're basically
it's like an adjunct to training for the for the model itself. So
it only it really only will tell you stuff about this about what
you train it with. Do
Adam Curry: you Do you remember back in the day when we were
talking like a 3050 you would automatically think that means a
carburetor for your motorcycle and a big model a big models
that you were dating a Kardashian I mean, what has
happened to our what has happened to our conversation?
Man? My
Dave Jones: truck has an auto line 1100 Fulbrighter Exactly,
exactly.
Adam Curry: Let me take a look at when I'm so I have the I have
the LLM are running on the Start OS and let me see what models I
have. I have Yeah, the biggest one I have is 7.5 gigs. That's
the new ma llama two and the Metho max which is five so yeah,
that's a that is a beefy model I don't have something that big.
Dave Jones: Oh it's like 32 Gig download huge wow it's huge but
it's a drop the podcast namespace into it back into it
as the only training material and edited
Adam Curry: do you have to say learn this is that we have to do
we just say hey, suck this in. What is the what prompt do you
give when you do that?
Dave Jones: Yeah, you hit the suck this in button.
Adam Curry: Really? There's I'm not even gonna question I'm sure
there is.
Dave Jones: You hit the stop button and it sucks it in and it
regenerates everything it takes depending on how much material
you give it. It can take a long time but like with just that
document it took I don't know a minute and it
Adam Curry: keeps that and it stores that forever.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, it's it trains it retrains the it
retrains the wow. This is the part I don't understand because
there's this thing called an RA G so it's like
Adam Curry: a it's a reg basically. What you get it's a
reg it
Dave Jones: creates the reg of the model and then and then you
and then you wipe stuff with it. But you get but so I asked it
something last data said well, I told it as a generate a podcast
and 2.0 chapters file with chapters at these times at these
time markers with these titles. Just basically gave it a basic
task that it should know how to do off them off the namespace
and, and if the first the chapters file came out good. The
next thing I asked it to do was created an RSS feed item tag
with an mp3 enclosure and, and HLS stream as the alternate
enclosure. And it complete it partially filled. fell down. He
gave what he gave me as a live item, not an item. Okay.
Adam Curry: Impressive is still impressive. No, it
Dave Jones: was good. It was good. But it started making up
attributes like it was a hallucination is attribute
attribute hallucination. And so that it was making it for the
for the enclosure tag it gave it like a a bit rate attribute and
a height attribute and all these weird things,
Adam Curry: correct it or you just say you suck. I'm what do
you do at that point?
Dave Jones: But yeah, I did say you suck. I said that a couple
times. But then also, you could also pull in just I think he
could just pull in more spec. They could just keep pulling in,
you know, like, if, because I didn't pull in the RSS 2.0. spec
itself. I didn't pull in the iTunes namespace like, I think
you could just keep piling material in here to give it more
to work with. And it would give you better answers. But
Adam Curry: oh, man, that's great. So pretty soon just have
that thing show up to the podcast.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that would be good. And then and you wouldn't
even need me. We wouldn't need we can just AI generate the
guest. Yeah.
Adam Curry: That's pretty cool, though.
Dave Jones: It's I mean, it's fun. It's so
Adam Curry: fun is the key word. I mean, would you actually put
something like that under production for any action? Can
you see yourself creating a cron job to do something like that?
Dave Jones: And no, like, I know, I guess, let me talk about
AI for just a second. Because I've been I've got some thoughts
on this. I haven't really, I guess, I don't know, I haven't
really spent time trying to figure out my thoughts on it in
general. And I guess, like the AI tool, I guess I've just got a
couple of thoughts after listening to especially
listening to Todd.
Adam Curry: Todd. I know, I know. Like, oh, it's so great. I
don't have to do it. I don't have to show up. I just throw it
on there. But if we're looking to add the believer he usable
believers definitely as a follower of the Chad G pts.
Dave Jones: And I cannot tell I'm not gonna take that away
from him. I mean, clearly, there's some. I think what we
have to, here's my, here's where I think I stand right now is if
so, I guess number one, two, these AI tools being built for
that are being built for stuff like podcasting, they work, you
can see that they will work well, when they're targeted for
specific tasks, or processes. Yes, yeah. Where in this, I
think this is key, where there's a human approval step at the end
of that pipeline. Yes, which is, which itself is not too time
consuming. So you could say something like, give me a bunch
of chapter, you know, give me chapters for this. Here's the
transcript, give me a bunch of chapters for this with markers
at this, these few key points, and just try to generate some
titles. And then it gives you that thing, and then you can
just quickly scan the title, see if they make sense for you.
Maybe hit a couple of previews and see if they make sense. Like
if it if it can do some of the grunt work, and then give you a
thing to quickly reviewed and make sure for you to sign off on
to me that that's the best use case for the of this.
Adam Curry: I mean, I've used it. I use my old models that I
said, and I'm going to blow my cover on this one, but Mark void
zero, you know, he started his own IT company. And his number
one client is no agenda. That's his first client. Yeah, so we
want we wanted to help them out. Yeah, exactly. And so he said,
Would you mind writing me a recommendation? blow my cover
here. So I went into my, into my, my starred nine. And I gave
it you know, like, I don't know, maybe two or three sentences.
And it pooped out a very decent review. It was flowery. So you
know, I cut out some of the flowery nonsense and send it to
him. He's like, wow, this is so great. And I didn't have the
heart to tell him that. An LM had done it. But for that, I was
like, Yeah, that's actually you know, just looking at it. It's
very, I'd say reasonably close to what I would have done for a
glowing review. It was not bad at all.
Dave Jones: It's really hard to contain to keep in your mind
that this is Is not that when the AI is pre is when the when
the model is giving you results, the language model. I'm gonna
I'm trying to be specific say language model not not AI,
because it's this is, this is different. So when it's hard to
remember this, and when you're using it, but I think it is
actually critical to remember is the LLM is not it doesn't know
anything. No, in the sense that we mean that we all understand
what that term is. And these language models don't know any,
all they know is, is likelihood of a word to come after another
word in a particular context. They're just regurgitating
language patterns. Yeah, it's
Adam Curry: a parlor trick. Your brain goes, Wow, it's talking to
me. Right?
Dave Jones: And you may come out with something very useful.
Adam Curry: You may not, but you may not.
Dave Jones: When I say when I say, give me an item, an RSS
podcast item, with an HLS ID alternate enclosure in it, you
immediately see a thing in your head, because you know what
those words mean? This thing only knows the language models
only know, the text that it seen before and the arrangement of in
the order of the words in the symbols that those texts appear.
And so it's not actually able to give you what you want, in the
sense that it knows what you want. No, it's just
Adam Curry: like, in my in my example. It's it's learned
hundreds 1000s I don't know 10 1000s of glowing reviews
probably sucked it in from Yelp. And, and it knows that Yeah,
okay. Well, it's this kind of business. Here's the next word.
Here's the next word. Yeah. I mean, that's that, I can see
that. And a professional writer sees that. I mean, Tina helps
people out with resumes all the time. And they'll say, Okay,
well, I did a start and she'll get the document just to chat
GPD she'll know right away you can do to me? Yeah, of course.
Of course you can see it. And I think eventually, with, you
know, these co pilots and all this coding stuff, I think
people will also I mean, again, it's like, Okay, God created the
world in six days. And the seventh day, he had to take a
break, because it took effort and energy. That's the part that
cannot be missing from the creative process, the energy and
the effort. And the there's something soulful and spiritual
that goes into creating things. So to regurgitate and create
things that have existed before. And, you know, I mean, I see
this with a no agenda Art Generator, go look at a no
agenda, art generator.com artists have been creating
artwork for the no agenda show for 12 over a decade, there's
35,000 images in there. And ever since Dolly, and stable
diffusion and all these other different programs, many more
people are uploading stuff that is soulless. I'm looking at you
comments from Blogger, it's soulless. I mean, it's soulless.
And it doesn't, it rarely gets picked, sometimes someone has
figured out how to use it and how to, I guess go through
several iterations and inject actual humor, which is very hard
to do. I haven't seen ai do humor very well, or love or
passion or any of this, it just does. So then and when you look
at it on mass, and you see me you can see the the changeover
in the work that's submitted, and most of it that was
beautifully rendered. But no, it's just it's not funny. It's
not there's no it has no soul. That's it. The
Dave Jones: The other thing I thought of was AI tools. Like
the stuff that's being built right now with these sort of
like third party startups that are coming up. Those are all
those startups those I'm sorry, but those guys are toast the
podcast hosting companies Yeah, I think Buzzsprout was the first
one to do it with there was a co co host or something like that.
And then transistors doing it, but blueberry, they're all in
rss.com They're all going to start doing this I mean, they're
all just because basically all these third party tools now to
do AI stuffs for to support podcasters the hosting companies
themselves are just gonna pull that the debt scalability in
Adam Curry: house yeah, and those those little companies
will all go broke because I mean, right now this is the
investment climate you know, the climate This is where all the
investment money's going into. Oh,
Dave Jones: in video, man, I mean, they're just printing
money right now is ridiculous. I would not be. I'm going to, I
gotta I gotta prediction. I would not be surprised if in the
end next three years in video buys entail. Oh, that's very
Adam Curry: possible. That's possible. It will also be the
best short of our lifetime. Once everyone figures out what
bullcrap this all really is. Whenever they pivot to quantum
computing, whatever comes next comes next. I mean, remember it
was machine learning just a year ago. Yeah, it's all it's all
branding. It's all brand new stuff anyway. It's not gonna
save podcasting. Yeah, that's in podcasting doesn't need saving.
No, no. But I've been, I've been doing my, my show prep. And I
have a question, why is there this? And maybe it's just the
podcast industrial complex, which I loved is one of the most
singularly unhelpful terms in my vocabulary. This growing your
podcast. You know, I'm a little sick of the term. Because the
whole world seems to be about growing your podcast. And you
have to have X amount of downloads. And I like to people
grow their tennis game or their golf game, or just have fun
playing golf. And playing tennis. Not everybody has to be
a pro. Is that I mean, am I missing something here that,
that you get into podcasting, it has to be a profession?
Dave Jones: It's, it's the math of CPMs is all about, it's about
it's all about the advertising. How
Adam Curry: about how about serving a community? I
Dave Jones: had this issue with that dude, that was around for a
while he bailed out of podcasting. But he was making
waves all the time about how Spotify was the future of
podcasting. I forget that dude's name we used to work.
Adam Curry: Where do you come from?
Dave Jones: He was like, he's like a podcast consultant. Man,
I cannot remember his name. But he was a podcast consultant. And
he was like, writing these articles and arguing with people
about how part of Spotify was, was the way that all creators
and all podcasters in the future, were going to be able to
make the most money. Yeah, and all of his arguments were based
on on advertising math, if you have this many. So I mean, he's
basically a formula like if you have the I mean, Dolby das would
love this. It's like a formula of, you know, math formula of,
if you put this if you have this many listeners and this much
growth rate, and you get this CPM and this much reach and
this, this level of engagement, and bla bla bla bla bla and you
put it all into this formula, you're rich,
Adam Curry: you got a plastic egg with a ring inside.
Dave Jones: And I was like, I was like, Well, yeah, but that
does any. Anybody stopped to ask the listeners what? Like if
they're willing to participate in this formula? Because I'm not
sure that it's as easy as all that. Because if we all did
that, this formula breaks down I mean, this
Adam Curry: Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Well, it's this the same type of
people who are telling you, you know, what you should do what
your what your you know, your how you do a podcast and you got
to choose your topic. I got a I got a one idea. Start a music
podcast. This is an open field. Don't don't start a podcast
about talking something, whatever the topic is. There's
already one there. Start a music podcast.
Dave Jones: I've gotten an even better, maybe not better idea.
I've got another idea. Start an audio book.
Adam Curry: There you go.
Dave Jones: I mean, just start doing audio book podcasts and
put put value for value tags in it. I mean, he talks about
Greenfield like we, every every third week, excuse me two out of
every three weeks that I listened to America this week
podcast, the short story that they talk about is not available
anywhere unknown in audio infuriating. I mean, you listen
to that show, find out what audio book there are, excuse me,
what what short story they're talking about. It'll take you an
hour, an hour and a half to record it. Throw a value tag in
there and launch it out there and be and done boom, you're the
only game in town you that's that's the only Ste and most of
these are all very old public domain stories. They're all
usually like, like 19th century Russian literature. They're just
old stuff. But it's like you, you're the only one that at that
point. You're the only available source of this story in audio
and you have a value tag where you can go to
Adam Curry: what's the what's the the open source, public
domain website the printing press guy, the printing the
printing press guy What's the Gutenberg Gutenberg? I think
it's Project Gutenberg Thank you. You can go to Project
Gutenberg you can find all kinds of books classics, even that are
public domain and start reading and recording. Yeah, I actually
started I started it with Tom Swift. Which I at the time I was
blown away to the Tom Swift books. You have read those Tom
Swift books, and never have no you know of them Tom Swift and
electric electric grandmother and all that stuff is flying
machine.
Dave Jones: One Tom Swift, kind of like Hardy Boys. But yeah, a
pretty Hardy
Adam Curry: Boys. Yeah, he was an inventor. And you know, he
had a flying machine. And then he has submarine and Victor
Appleton, which is not even that's a pen name that several
authors used.
Dave Jones: And I like Mark, like Mark Bognor again, Mark.
Exactly.
Adam Curry: And I actually started reading a couple of
those for an audio book project. A while back now of course, I
never completed it. But that's because other things got in the
way. But I was like, this is kind of fun to read all kinds of
stuff like that. I was. I was invited to listen to this crew.
I was invited to something called the V for V roundtable. I
heard about it was it's a podcast, and it was so new. I
didn't realize it was episode number one. And they had asked
me to be a guest and it was Jimmy V. Sir Lee Bray. And Sir
TJ the wrathful. And it was actually it was really it was
quite it was quite adorable. Until they got to the part where
they're like, Yeah, we want to do a V for V awards. I'm like
no, no stop now just stop and they said lady Well, we really
just wanted an excuse to hang out or they find do a meet up.
Awards are so Fiat to me these days is like it's the antithesis
of of podcasting. It's really the opposite
Dave Jones: of the for V for just they wanted to do awards
for just music just for anything.
Adam Curry: I think for music. Yeah, I think from us, okay.
Dave Jones: That's like how can you do that funny though? I
would watch it I would watch the music course.
Adam Curry: What a train wreck that would be.
Dave Jones: No I would that's why
Adam Curry: these days award shows are so wrong because it's
a business model. You charge people to submit. And I was
never used to be that way used to be. You know your peers. And
who can be appear in this bit. It's impossible. All of this is
an arachnid and an arachnid NISM. What is it
Dave Jones: an anachronism that I think you're talking about
spiders. I think that's what yeah, that yes, arachnophobia.
Adam Curry: That's my problem. But an arachnid. I can't say the
word no.
Dave Jones: anachronism, anachronism.
Adam Curry: And anachronism. anachronism. Yes.
Dave Jones: Vestigial?
Adam Curry: Yes, definitely. There you go. Perfect.
Dave Jones: Do we want to dare venture into this into the fees
discussion?
Adam Curry: Why don't we bring our guests in because he'll be
he'll be more fun to talk about. He's been waiting patiently for
about 20 minutes here. He is no stranger to the boardroom. And
he has been in the podcasting 2.0 projects from very early
days. And he is as far as I know, the first guest ever who
sent his own questions. Which I thought was just great. He's
like, hey, we you're going to be on the pocket? Yeah, here's some
I have some that was it. Here's some talking points. I thought
we could talk about tomorrow. Yes, perfect. We would like to
welcome back to the boardroom. A fan favorite ladies and
gentlemen all the way from France. Benjamin Bellamy. Those
rollerball know that Bonjour to you, buddy. How are you? We're
good. We're good. And we appreciate you coming on. We
know that it's about eight o'clock at night. I guess now in
it
Benjamin Bellamy: is eight o'clock sharp.
Adam Curry: I have an important question. Right off the top that
you are you in Paris? I forget if you're in Paris. I am in
Paris. Yes. So what's up with the farmers? How's that gone?
Did they really are they really pouring a cow poop into
government buildings because I love that idea. Yeah,
Benjamin Bellamy: but no in Paris there weren't allowed to
get into Paris. So we haven't seen them. And actually, it
didn't last very long. So have their back to their farms now.
Adam Curry: Yeah. But is that resolved? Are they happy now?
Because they seem pretty angry.
Benjamin Bellamy: Is this a political podcast? No,
Adam Curry: no. I like farmers. I'm just purely interested in
because you're seeing these protests around the world. And
no one in America ever talks about it and our farmers. I
don't know what they're doing. They're not pouring cow manure
in anywhere. And you see it all all over Europe. I'm just
Curious, is that is that fixed? Are they happy? I mean, do you
guys have food to eat?
Benjamin Bellamy: No, nothing is fixed, but they got home because
the only thing that they managed to to get is to, to be allowed
to use pesticides and everything and to stop all the ecological
loads.
Adam Curry: So the climate change stuff. Yeah.
Benjamin Bellamy: So like the climate. Yeah. So they say, good
enough, but they'll probably be bad, like next year or within
six months, but I'm just impressed.
Adam Curry: I'm impressed with the French farmer that impressed
with the Dutch farmers and the Germans. I'm just impressed with
it. Because we don't have anything like that. That
Dave Jones: happens now. We did we put on we don't protest. We
Adam Curry: put on pink pussy hats and walk around. Yeah,
that's
Benjamin Bellamy: all cool. You probably have to be really
careful when you're watching the news, because it's like, a huge
magnifier.
Adam Curry: No, no, you're kidding. No way, Benjamin. You
mean the news is full
Benjamin Bellamy: of crap. It isn't. But like the country
weren't just like a crap and the fire and it was very localized.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Gotcha. crap and fire crap and fire. Great
show title. Yes.
Dave Jones: Right off the bat.
Adam Curry: Brother, we are so happy that you that you're back
in the boardroom? Because I mean, you wanted to give us an
update on Casta pod because it's been How long has it been? It's
been over a year and a half. Maybe since we last had you on?
Benjamin Bellamy: I think it's way more it's I think it's two
years. Yeah, I was here on episode 29.
Adam Curry: Wow. Yeah. So well. So
Dave Jones: that's very nervous about, tell us about Cassiopeia.
But I also want to tell I want you to explain the cast pod
index as well.
Benjamin Bellamy: Oh, sure. Well, castor pod, as you know,
is our open source hosting platform, which we've been
developing for three years now. We started exactly when you guys
started podcasting. 2.0. So, yeah, that's over three years
now. And we've moving forward, we have a huge roadmap, and
many, many things coming this year. Think we have new new
tags, we just added the medium one with our contributors. We
have 51 contributors that are working on Casta bird now,
mainly for other translations, but also on some book
corrections and features. Now,
Adam Curry: just so not everybody knows we have cast a
pod.org, which is the Open Source Self, you can self host
it. And then I think you have cast a pod.com, which includes
hosting for a small fee. Is that still in place? Yeah,
Benjamin Bellamy: that's correct. We just like copied
what WordPress is doing. We right, we'd like to, we like to
think that we are the WordPress for our podcast. In a sense that
we use the same technology, which is PHP, MySQL. If you want
to self host on a very cheap shared hosting, you can unzip a
zip file, and then run the wizard, and you're ready to go
and podcasts. And we also have two websites the.org casper.org,
where you can download the whole server, and on kasturba.com
within like one minutes. You subscribe, you enter your credit
card, and you're ready to go. And you can use your own domain
name and like it's your home, your podcasts, right and you own
your data, your audience, everything belongs to you. And
Adam Curry: can you give us an idea of how many people are
using self hosted versus hosted? And I just have no you've been
around. You've been doing this for a while. So I'm just curious
how the how the uptake has been.
Benjamin Bellamy: I cannot give you the exact numbers for a very
simple reason. We don't have any. Anything within Cassiopeia
that tells you when someone installs it, we don't know so
and they are quite a bunch of podcasts that are using customer
pod self hosted and that are not registered on the podcast index.
Oh, really. I've yet found some of them. And quite often,
usually, I'm aware of them when John Spurlock says, Oh, this is
something that's Cassiopeia podcasts, but she's trying to
use a p3. But since it's not in the podcast index, I cannot
process it. Ah,
Adam Curry: is this is this on purpose is it just don't want to
be in the index, or it's not known to them.
Benjamin Bellamy: I think we can call that a bug. Basically, what
we should be doing is, when the wizard ends, the castor pod
installation system, we should add a button do you wish to
register to podcast index? And my guess is that most most
podcasts that are not in the podcast index, it's just because
they don't know what that exists. Okay, we
Dave Jones: probably got a real, I got a real easy way for you to
do that, then you can, you can just send positing the as you
send a pod pay we have, we have the our web sub hub also acts
acts as a pod ping generator. So you can call pub dot podcast
index.org Pub notify, and then just send the pod paying in his
No, there's no authentication keys required. If you just send
this in that as soon as somebody rolls in new, a new cast a pod
instance, then we'll pick the feed up and everybody else
should see it too. Yeah,
Benjamin Bellamy: then we know that there are many, many ways
of doing that. It's just something that it we have a huge
pile of, of tasks are on our to do list. And that's something
that we should have done years ago, and we still haven't
Adam Curry: we know how this works. Benjamin, no worries. No
worries, Dave and I still have to go on vacation together. Not
this at the bottom of the stack.
Dave Jones: We're very lucky what but yeah, exactly. Exactly.
What if so. So this is an interesting, I don't want to
derail you, but I just I'm trying to make a mental note to
come back to this because Mitch, Mitch from pod verse is also
trying to transition more into being a maintainer and building
up a community around pod verse that will contribute open source
code. And it sounds like Castor pod has is been pretty slick.
It's been successful to a degree with getting people to be tasked
with building a code contribution community.
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, but it's, we're not there yet. There
are still work to do. Am I encouraging anyone who wants to
get involved to to get on our GitLab server on the code that
casper.org And there could the number of issues we have on
GitLab is so long that we could use a hand so and just to answer
your questions without we forget about it. I think there are
between 305 100 podcasts using Castor pod right now to give you
an idea so that's quite a lot because like a year ago, there
were like a dozen or so so yeah, it's like I think we have like
plus 30% Every month but yeah, that could be we could have like
10 times this amount if you see the number of of blogs using
WordPress we're not on the same scale here. Even if you're
looking at podcast generator which was the the the open
source system that I've been I was using before we we developed
Castor pod they are more podcasts using podcast generator
now. So there's still a huge room for for growth. Are you
Adam Curry: still still funded? partially or entirely for the
for the project by government net? And yes Annelle net? Oh,
that's that NLnet is that now European? What like is that now
EU money and l net? Or is L net? Where did they get their funding
from? I forgot
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah. From from EU EEA. European Union.
Yeah. Yeah, partly still, too. So we are still partly funded by
NL net European Union. And that's just a small part of our
what it really costs in the end, of
Adam Curry: course. Of course, they should force all those all
those people at the EU to use cast the pod for their podcast.
Yeah, I don't think they do. I know they use all kinds of
stuff. And I follow a lot of EU podcast, but they're never on
cast a pod to my knowledge.
Benjamin Bellamy: Yes, some are getting there. I think the one
of the problem that we have both Yasin and me is that we're, I
guess, not that bad developing stuff, but we're not that good
for setting them. Even if it's setting for free. So
Adam Curry: when government I find if you make it 10,000
euros, that's when they all want to have as you say, you want it
the wrong way with these government people. Yeah, they
don't like free, they can't be good. We need to get something
from Boeing. That cost a lot of money.
Dave Jones: I like the way you said that. We're we're not bad
at developing things. But we're not good at selling things. Yep,
pretty much that pretty much no, that that's most open source
Adam Curry: projects best. Right? That's right.
Benjamin Bellamy: Let's we have pretty good feedbacks from the
whole community. We have a local radio networks that are using
Castor pod now. So we're getting there. Yeah. The future is very
interesting. I'm very excited about what this year will bring.
Dave Jones: How much am many of your, how many caster pod users
do you have a feel are French versus outside of France? Is
there? What does that look like?
Benjamin Bellamy: I think it reflects the number of podcasts
that they are like worldwide. Obviously, we have another maybe
5050 podcast French podcasts using gastropod. So that like
10%. But if you compare that to the number in the podcast
indexed, I looked this morning, they were 90,000 podcasts in
French. So I don't know if they're Canadians or French,
Swiss, or Belgium. But so that lets that know 107 compared to
like 2 million in English, right, and I guess like eight
800,000 in Spanish, and maybe 300,000 in Portuguese. So the
market, the podcasting market, for a French language is still
in the very, very early stages.
Adam Curry: i i We were talking about AI just a little bit ago.
And I have a theory about this. You know, one of the things that
all it comes is come around like three times now it's like, oh,
this company will now transcribe your podcast into five different
languages with natural sounding voices. And when I'm always
surprised by is that it's never the other way around. I don't
hear any. And this is what my question would be. Are there any
companies who are saying we'll take your French spoken podcast
and turn it into English? That will be part one of the
question. And part two is, are there actually any podcasts that
have been trans morphed into French from English that are
doing anything in France? I mean, is this just total
vaporware that no one's using it?
Benjamin Bellamy: Not that I know of? And I don't know. And
the Yeah, the podcasting market is really, really different from
everything else that we know why. My guess is because it's a
hippie stuff from the beginning. Like the fact that
Adam Curry: like hippie stuff, all right, there's another show.
Benjamin Bellamy: The fact that it's still uses technology from
the 90s, where you can choose the hosting company, you can
choose the index, you can choose the app for playing the podcast,
make it really difficult for big corporations to make money out
of it. And so they tend not to be interested in it, I think.
And even if you look at the the dynamic or do insertion markets
for advertising, on podcasting, it's tiny, really, really small
compared to the radio industry. It's really small. It's the
beginning and eventually it's going to grow That's for sure.
So, some, some companies are interested in that. But it's so
difficult because it is distributed. And it's not like a
closed silo as it can be on YouTube.
Adam Curry: It's interesting because I was in Italy last
year, September. And I think it was, I think it was Spotify. But
something had happened. And all of a sudden, Italy was crazy
about podcasts. And they had never really picked it up
before. And I don't know if it was one certain. My my nephew
and nieces were like, oh, yeah, no, this this one guy, and he's
doing a podcast and this comedians doing a podcast, and
somehow it just caught fire. And all of a sudden the whole
country was all nuts about podcasting. It seems like, you
need to have that one spark. And then it takes off. And I don't
and I get I think it might have been Spotify that that that did
that. And they did something good. On me, what are the
podcasts? And so there's so few are there like, you know,
mainstream entertainers doing podcasts? You mean
Benjamin Bellamy: in France? Yeah. Basically, the whole
industry here is if it is. organized and by the radio
networks, right. I was looking at some numbers. In France 67%
of every audio consumption is done on the radio networks. And
only 10% is podcasts. Right. And in this 10 percents, three is
for indie podcast, and seven is for the radio podcasts. Gotcha.
So the radio industry is still very, very strong.
Dave Jones: But you trust those numbers, you trust those
numbers? Where that where's the measurement for that coming
from?
Benjamin Bellamy: Even if you don't trust them? The difference
is so so big that okay, yeah, at some points. And yeah, you can
see that people are still listening. I think 60% of French
people are listening to the radio, like every day. So we
have a very strong radio culture here.
Dave Jones: It's funny to me how that how that works in different
in different in different cultures, like I had heard
somebody telling me as maybe a year ago that, like, Japan has a
really intense fax machine culture, if you go to Japan,
it's just they fax everything. This is I mean, still to today.
I mean, this is not some, this is not we're not talking about
two decades ago, like the right now they, it's just become part
of their culture. And it's like, almost to an identity level.
There's some things we we just you go across the border, and
it's like a whole different set of priorities people have about
how they consume different media, how they interact with
with with other people. That's pretty, that's pretty
interesting, because from the outside looking in, especially
looking at the index data, French podcast, seems podcasting
in France, to me from the outside seems to be very, like,
insular, I guess, more. And maybe that's not this. This is
maybe a negative connotation. What I mean is like, it seems
sort of like they like Radio France doesn't want their stuff.
distributed in this feels like there's a lot of it's local
first, maybe that's the best way to describe it. Like we yeah,
probably, like France, like French podcasts or for our for
the French. They're really not for anybody else first. Yeah,
Benjamin Bellamy: we don't get even many Canadian podcasts like
French speaking Canadian podcasts. We don't get that many
of them. So yeah, you're probably right. And the thing
is, if you watch Netflix in France, you'll get many, many US
programs and from everywhere, but
Adam Curry: it's called democracy bad. That's how we
spread democracy.
Benjamin Bellamy: The main reason for that is probably the
closed caption. So this is probably where the transcript
tag will change everything that Apple is going to use it. Maybe
that will change many things.
Adam Curry: Is there a need Oh, this is interest. Sing. Now I
grew up in the Netherlands where I believe people learned English
by watching American and am British but American television
shows with subtitles. In fact, I'm really good at watching
anything with subtitles, because that's just how we roll. And
this is how my daughter's learned English. Yes. So is it?
Should we be creating? or should there be services that create
translations of transcripts?
Benjamin Bellamy: Not necessarily. Because if you have
an English spoken podcast with English subtitles, usually is
going to be enough. You can maybe you need the French
transcription and translated if you're very young, but the you
know, the problem with the American accent is that we don't
understand anything that you say really, especially if you're if
you're from Texas.
Adam Curry: Okay. Okay, so keep going.
Dave Jones: So when I say that I sat down yesterday and played
the guitar across the same way to
Benjamin Bellamy: but the thing is, we are there are very, very
few person listening to American podcast in France, because it's
really hard to understand. The underside lists. You already
are, you took about a sparkle and I think that serial was the
one you guys had in the US.
Adam Curry: Yeah, that region, that region in reignited
podcasting in 2015, or something. 2016. Yeah,
Benjamin Bellamy: 14, I guess. But yeah. And I listened to that
show, and I really loved it. But I have to admit, like, there was
hard to follow on some, yeah, some details. And the thing is,
like, I can do the dishes, or Iran or stuff like that, but I
need, like 90% of my brain, if I want to listen to a podcast
that's in English, yeah. And I cannot understand anything else.
Whereas if it's in French, I can do it. But
Adam Curry: I gotta tell you, I mean, I would really love to see
French independent podcasts, I saw this happen in the
Netherlands, it kind of happened over the past four or five
years. A few guys, you know, really were pushing it hard. And
then they, and then just something happened. And he got a
couple of shows. And then all the kids all sudden, were
listening to podcasts. I mean, they can happen. It just had
just maybe it's a cultural thing. But I think it can happen
in every country. And it just seems like it will be so
enriching for the culture in
Benjamin Bellamy: it, because there are some really, really
good podcasts in France. The thing is, you need the audience
to meet the podcast. And that's something that's not automatic.
And you need probably people to move from the radio to the
podcast, and there's a discoverability issue. That's
the program that everyone says, If I'm a listener, where do
where do I get podcasts? How do I find them? And if you're a
podcaster, how do I get discovered, right? And again,
transcription, from my point of view will change everything.
Adam Curry: Okay? Because tell us now that Apple is doing that
tell us.
Benjamin Bellamy: The thing is, if you look at the podcasting
ecosystem now, in terms of SEO, we are exactly at the point
where we were for the web in 1995.
Adam Curry: You're still using Internet Explorer.
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, or Netscape or mosaic how I was
using links, links. Yeah, there
Adam Curry: you go. That's a real man uses links. Absolutely.
Dave Jones: All the way down to the blood. Yeah,
Adam Curry: it does images. Now, you know, links is pretty has
developed over time.
Benjamin Bellamy: And back then, we were using Yahoo, and
AltaVista and these search engine, they only looked at the
title and maybe some meta metadata. And that sets and this
is what podcasting is right now. Looking for podcasts in Apple
podcasts is impossible. If you're looking for something,
the keyword needs to be in the title, otherwise, you're 100%
sure that you won't find it. Right. So we are still just
looking searching within the title and some metadata. If you
are lucky. Not that we are getting the transcription and my
guess is that Apple podcasts pushing transcription will make
everyone using it. Because so far it's been three years since
like cassava has been using transcription and pushing them.
But we know that that's not enough. And you heard the guys
that eclipsing three weeks ago when they say yeah, it's useless
because no one is using it. Yeah, my guess is that yeah,
probably they're looking at it right now.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Because Apple, because Apple added it. Now
they're looking at it, of course.
Benjamin Bellamy: So I'm using one of our snowball effects Now,
regarding the translation, the transcription, sorry. And, and
we meaning that now, it will be possible to index everything and
to index the content and to know exactly what it's talking about.
And the discoverability will change radically, radically.
Dave Jones: So it how many. So when it comes to OP three, how
many? Are there any French podcasts that you have no, of
using op three, because I would love to see what the
consumption? I would love to see what the app app breakdown is.
And see what what apps people are using in France to listen to
French podcasts?
Benjamin Bellamy: Oh, yeah, that's very easy. I don't have
the number is going to be app already. But actually, no, there
is no, there is no rule. It really depends on the podcast.
It depends also on the country. But it's Yeah, depends on the
podcast, like a podcast talking about open source. And there are
many of these using castable. Use usually, Apple and Spotify
are not the first ones. So it depends on the audience. You can
have surprises
Adam Curry: everywhere. No, I agree with that. I, I love the
individual stats that op three delivers. I see I see my stats,
I see pod verse and podcast guru up there very high, sometimes
higher than Apple or any other app you write it depends on
audience. And that's by the way, I I'm not a big fan of looking
at, you know, who's number one across everything. You know, to
me, that's a senseless award shows.
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, and that's not the point at all of
Opie three. And I know that John's said it, he, there's
there is no top 10 on the on the mp3, he doesn't want it good.
Good. That's that's not the goal for that tool. But nevertheless,
it's interesting to see and to get numbers on how it's used.
But in the end, you know that if a host says listen to my podcast
on Apple podcast and give me stars, guess what this is where
the user will go. If you say use something for a new podcast
apps.com That works. In the end, if everyone says that, in the
end, you know that people will switch and move to a platform
where they can have more features. Or
Dave Jones: let me push back on that for a second, though,
because that's that's it's sort of it's circular, though.
Because when somebody when you're listening to a podcast,
and somebody says, listen to us on Apple podcast, you're already
listening to the podcasts or you're already listening to it
on something. So now I can see that you would switch that could
cause you to switch to a different podcast app. But how
did they even get into that to begin with? But how? I guess
what's the entry point into being able to initially even
hear the podcast in order to hear somebody say I wish you
would listen to us on this other thing?
Benjamin Bellamy: The exact same mechanism. Like when you used to
go on a websites with Internet Explorer, and they said, Yeah,
you better use Chrome
Adam Curry: or Firefox. Yeah. Yep. Same. That took years. But
it worked. Yeah,
Benjamin Bellamy: eventually it works. And also, you also have
to, to know that many listeners, they discover the podcast on the
podcast websites, yes. And they click play within Firefox or
Chrome or Internet Explorer, maybe? I don't know. So that's
the entry. Usually that's the entry points, because still
going back to discoverability, and search engines, if you
there's that many goods search engine for podcasting. So if you
look by you're probably searched in Google, and Google will lead
you to the website.
Adam Curry: That's how I've so no agenda. Yeah, it's been
around a long time. But we have we've never asked for ratings
never and we have as many five stars as one stars on Apple. We
think we might have been featured once 10 years ago. But
we've I mean, we've never marketed never spent a dime on
it. We've just asked our listeners to do that. I think
that's so underrated. And we ask your listeners to to tell
people, there's no discovery really? Yeah, we buy now where
we have a lot of top placement in in search engines. But I just
I don't know I, to me, it's like, you want people to tell
other people. That's the best way, that's someone who's
actually going to go and get it. I'm the number of people who
said, I was looking for news with no agenda, I can count on
one hand.
Dave Jones: But I was, you know, I'm thinking that I think pod
roll will help this a lot. It will help bring, bring some
linkage between podcasting. And I think publisher feeds, when we
get that one across the finish line, I think those two things
are going to help build a structure that's crawlable, like
in a way that we've never had before, where there is actual
linkage between shows, instead of depending on instead of
depending on Google, and these are in or for depending on just
textual, like machine learning or something which is really not
going to get you to where we want to be, we want to use what
you want is recommended as a recommendation engine that's
based on pure money. That's yeah, humans in your own sphere.
Like so. Because if I'm listening to if I'm listening to
a show, I want, I may not, I may not want to listen to the show
that the hosts of that show or listening to, but at least May I
probably want to know those shows exists. So that can give
them a shot. They can try it out. It
Adam Curry: wasn't a recommendation, a big push for
you, Ben.
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah. It's something that I wrote like,
three years ago, almost. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. And if you're,
if you look back at my example, about SEO, there was a radical
change in SEO when Google started working and indexed the
whole pages and all the contents. So that's one key
feature that we need. And my guess is that that will have
that with the transcriptions. The other part for Google was
the PageRank. If you remember, it's impossible to see it, but
it still exists, the page rank. So like a rates be between zero
and 10, I guess, that allows to sort the results for the engine
regarding the query that you entered. And it was calculated
with the links from one page to another and the more inbound
links you have, the better your page rank is. And that's also
something that we probably need on the on the podcasts and the
pod roll. can help for that, because you can link from one
podcast to another. Because if you take a step back, that's
something really weird that's since all these years, there is
no link between podcasts, no connection at all. We build the
internet on the hyperlinks, but we didn't put any of them for
the podcasting. So patrol is about that. The recommendation
tag that I wrote a specification for so I guess it was three
years ago, was clearly to to enable that to say this podcast
was based on another one that talks about the same subject, or
is I recommend this other one or so that you can have links and
have like a graph of all the podcasts. Right? I think the
recommendation, recommendation tag didn't work eventually
because it was too complex. So probably at some points. I won't
give up. But it probably needs to be rewritten from scratch.
Well, the
Adam Curry: thing was the thing with POD roll, which I think is
a start of what of what we're talking about here is everyone's
busy, but I'm just looking at the at the Apps page. I think
the only app that supports it is while true fans and pod friend
and no other app seems to be supporting it, which is a shame
because it's it's it's so it's such an obvious good feature.
And we've seen the success of a blog role and and as just as you
said, you can start to build these these links and these
connections. Maybe the that'll come in when we do the
publisher, the publisher tag, that. I mean, it ultimately is
just a matter of what, what the app developers have time for and
what they feel like implementing. So we have no, we
have no control.
Dave Jones: It seems like something new. as an app
developer, it would not be too complex. But when you finish,
when you finish an episode, you know, or you are alongside an
episode, there's somewhere visually you can indicate, well,
here's here's some other podcasts that this show
recommends. To me, because the linkage and everything is
pretty, it's there. It's really straightforward. And I think,
you know, I just doesn't seem like a, it doesn't seem like a
big lift. That to do that is like, Well, does. Wait does cast
a pod? Do y'all do pod roll yet? Ben? No, no. Okay. Any plans on
that?
Benjamin Bellamy: It's on the roadmap, but on top of exactly
in
Dave Jones: the list, right? In the list. Yeah, I guess you.
What can we talk about? Wait, let me let me take a detour
here. I want to talk about social a little bit because one
of the biggest things about cast apod in this has been from the
very beginning. And I will cop to this that I early on and one
of the developer roundtables that that we had, you, you and
your scene got on to the zoom. And we're saying that podcasting
really did benefit from having a deeper integration with activity
pub. And I did not understand activity pub enough at the time
to see to see the power of what you were talking about. But I've
totally, I've totally changed on that. I totally understand what
you were saying now. And I think activity pub, and RSS. I think
they're just perfect bedfellows. And I think so cast apod has
been from the beginning. And activity pub centric experience.
I think it's basically designed around activity pub as a first
class citizen. And what I'm trying to do now after I wrote
the activity pub, the index activity pub bridge, what I've
been trying to do is figure out a way to link a podcast owner to
an activity pub identity. So that you could say, Okay, this
podcast, which now has a has an actor on the fediverse. This
other actor is the owner of this podcast, so that so that that
owners actor object gets a lot of get some preferential
treatment, I guess, and becomes important as a link to the, to
the podcast. And so we've thrown around a bunch of ideas. And
when I was with Nate, like Nathan gathright came up with
some ideas, and he, you know, we could say, well, let's just goes
back to your proposal, when you first embroiled in social
interact, you had a separate tag for social sign up, and then a
tag just called social. And but then Nathan said, you know, and
when we could go back to that, we could say, Okay, well,
here's, here's a podcast, and we define a tag where you can
explicitly say, the owner of this podcast, is this activity
pub handle. But you could also say, Well, let's look in the
person tag. And we could add an attribute there. Or we could do
a web finger lookup on the URL that's in the person tag, and
try to discover an activity pub object from that. Do you have
any ideas around what you think makes the most sense?
Benjamin Bellamy: Well, I think you, you need to keep that as
simple as possible. I'm not very comfortable with the fact that
you have many actors, because you don't know how this will
behave on the other platform on the fediverse. And we have many
feedbacks from users saying, Well, I'm a bit lost because I
have, I have an account on the fediverse forum. For Mastodon, I
have one for pixel fed, and I have one for a custom bird and I
wish I had only one of them to group them or so I think it's
the same idea of I need like a master one or but the thing is,
I like to have separate things like my podcast is exists by
itself. It's a thing on the fediverse and If I have me as a
user or as a podcaster, and other accounts on Mastodon, I
think that's great. And the good thing is that on the favors, all
these actors can talk to each other and they can share and
like and comments, and talk together. But if you take a step
back and think of what it was before the fediverse, well, you
had an email address, and you had a Facebook account and a
Twitter account and a SoundCloud account exactly the same. The
big difference is that all these accounts could not talk
together, thanks to the fediverse, they can talk
together. So you still have to, to have an accounts for a
specific task of road that you want to do. And I think that's
good that you, you need to have separate interfaces or stuff,
because it's not the same role. But in the end, since they can
talk together, well, that's good. And probably you you can
use, like, something that we don't have in Casper, that we
have to add it in any future that has mustard on, you can you
can say a who, which website owns this accounts. So that's,
in the end, you'll be able to proceed on your accounts. You
see what I mean? Yeah,
Dave Jones: cuz what I could see is like that right now, the
bridge, you can follow a podcast, as an as an actor, you
can follow a podcast on the fediverse through the podcast,
index bridge. But if that was a cast a pod podcast, then what I
would want to do probably is forward those requests
basically, treat that as as if the account had moved from the
bridge to the to cast upon itself,
Benjamin Bellamy: which through that hassle, I think that's too
complex. Where you're going to draw, you
Dave Jones: wouldn't, you wouldn't want to redirect them
to the official cast upon instance,
Benjamin Bellamy: I would have the link on my bio and say, my
podcast is here. Subscribe,
Dave Jones: instead of doing it at the activity level, yeah.
Okay, keep it so yeah, either way, either way. I just want
like if you have a podcast, and you have a cast apod so if you
have if your podcast is on the fediverse. But then you also
have an account on the fediverse. I just want to know
that you are the one who's the podcaster. Yeah.
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, so that's something that we have to
add to gastropod. Like he's, you know, it, we're
Dave Jones: gonna add that how would you do it? Like, what
would you bow would your design be?
Benjamin Bellamy: Or your you add metadata rail, you know, and
to, and that's, it's
Adam Curry: the same set the method? Yeah.
Benjamin Bellamy: And you do it both ways. So right, now we've
cast it, but there is no way to do it either way. But that's not
something very difficult to do. It's just a link.
Dave Jones: But what would it look like in the RSS feed,
though? So if I'm declaring my past,
Benjamin Bellamy: that's not RSS. That's not in the RSS, you
have to put that on the web page.
Dave Jones: Right now, I understand. But with from an RSS
standpoint, how do we know? How do I how does the index, I want
to wait for your index to know? Oh,
Benjamin Bellamy: you can add the link in the RSS the same,
you would add it in the HTML page? You just have. You need
the app, Id the player to look into the RSS feed and, and
verify if if everything's okay.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So with the the link, so that you would have
to the link, I think link is an atom tag, right? You'd have to
declare the atom namespace and bring that in with the row.
Okay. Yeah, we've got some options here. I mean, that's
because that's really where I want. It's really where I want
things to be. Because the social interact stuff is working really
well. I mean, I think that tag is great. It's just, it's, it's
lacking this one bit of information, which is where are
the people who host the show? Like who are they on the
fediverse M, we have to be able to we have to be able to go from
a podcast that declares its its its presence on the social on
the on the on the phone refers to who are the people who are
involved? And I think, I think that probably ends up landing in
some point
Adam Curry: that person tag. Yeah, person tag with a rel
equals Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like the easy way to do it.
Benjamin Bellamy: In the HTML page, it's just like a h ref.
And then the link to your, your a mastodon account rel equals
me. So you could put the same in the RSS exactly the same. Yeah,
but the thing is, if you do that, it's you have to, it's not
going to be very symmetric, you have to think of which app we'll
try to verify and how those that's going to work. But that's
how I would do it. Just to say I'm the owner of this.
Adam Curry: Right? I
Benjamin Bellamy: am, sorry, just together make to step backs
about the whole fediverse and activity web stuff, because we
know it's complex. And not all users understand why we're doing
that. The whole point of Castile pod when we began working on it,
was to make sure that podcaster stay in control, and Ghana don't
get ripped off of their their value. And the value of a
podcaster is the content and the audience. So the fact that
caster pod is open source and can be self hosted, ensures that
you can self host your content, your mp3 and metadata, and no
one can remove that from you. And for the audience, the
activity pub stuff, the failover stuff ensures that you have a
direct contact between your podcast and your audience. And
your audience can talk, share like and and comment your
episodes from your podcast with no middleman. And there's no
one, no one that can cut the connection between your podcast
and your audience. That's something really important. So
it's not just for fun, because we thought it's a cool feature
to have little stores on the castor pod websites. And in that
you can see the comments on the gastropod. website. It's it's
really important that there's no middleman between the content
and the audience. So great content. Yeah,
Adam Curry: no, go ahead. I'm sorry. Finish your question.
Finish your thought.
Benjamin Bellamy: When you when you when you create a podcast on
Casta pod no one can steal what you created. Neither the content
nor the audience.
Adam Curry: Day Have you been I know you've been looking at? Oh,
I saw some threads about blue sky. What am I now to understand
that there could be a bridge between a podcast through the
index activity pub and then ultimately bridge through to
blue sky?
Dave Jones: That the I think people are making Blue Sky
bridges. Okay, I don't
Adam Curry: because that doesn't mean it's real federal That to
me is real. fediverse when that stuff happens was
Dave Jones: that I think the blue sky stuff that I saw this
week was about them federating amongst themselves Okay, all
right, like because you said that you could have other
personal data servers within blue sky but I don't and I know
there are projects going that will that will bridge
Adam Curry: Federer I sure hope so. I sure hope so because I
really enjoy the the nostril BRIDGES I mean, I love following
people who are on nostra except for the long numbers or whatever
but but I it to me it's like I see more and more of a you know,
the and I have my own my own Mastodon instance. I love having
it kind of the hub of all these different social networks to me
that's that's That is the true fediverse There.
Dave Jones: It feels like the activity pub. It feels like
activity pub fediverse is sort of the hub that these other ones
are attaching detaching to Yeah, yeah it's like it's like you
have you know, imagine it as like Mickey Mouse's head with
the Fed or you know with activity pub as the as the as
the face in the the blue sky is one of the ears and nostrils the
other ear. Got it? That's what it feels like.
Adam Curry: Let's let's take a little break here gentlemen,
let's play a little bit of music as we'd like to do here on the
so we can keep our stats up there and that our says blue.com
stats page. Nice. Benjamin, I will tell you, disappointingly,
I could not find or nor do I have a way to find any French
songs in that are up on value for value. I would love to have
some Shawn songs to play. I've found some Japanese should have
told me
Benjamin Bellamy: I would have looked for it
Adam Curry: I mean there's unfortunately there's no way to
really find out I don't think if a song is in the French language
is there I don't think there is
Dave Jones: but it's the language tag in the RSS yeah so
certainly
Adam Curry: now with music Well if you find any Benjamin I love
I love short songs
Benjamin Bellamy: yeah I think it's if I have to
Adam Curry: that's okay thank you that's fine take it away
we're gonna play new artists Emily Rana nice and short this
one I think people like it this is called someone else clothes
Unknown: as a stranger in my house in my house
own house in my house someone else someone else
there's a stranger in my house in my house but it's easy
someone else someone
wish I could kick you and change the lungs
will make excuses
Adam Curry: Emily Rana, someone else I'd like this song for a
number of reasons one because it's it's kind of like the
Ainsley Costello Poppy vibe. And you need that these days too,
because I believe this is an artist who assigned with phantom
power music. And I really like what those guys are doing
because they're they're taking some very simple concepts of
record promotion, they email me with, you know, three, three
songs a week, this is what we recommend. This is who we're
working with, you know, it's called promoting, as marketing.
I really enjoy that because that we need that kind of stuff to
build to build more of a, a system and ecosystem. And I will
make my plea once again to the to the app developers, I would
love for you to look at your TLV records. What you're sending, I
have no idea if you're boosting for a song for many of the apps,
and if you feel like it, adding that reply to in your TLV record
is just so joyous. I love sending SATs back to people I
know it's a it's another one of those things you put on your
list but man and I think the split kid only sends the artists
which is completely unhelpful. But I know Stephen, Stephen P is
very busy. So yeah, that's my that's my weekly plea to look at
your TLV records because it really makes a difference to see
what and for the artists to because they get a boost to
grammar they don't know. They don't know. They just see
booster Grand Ball. They don't end they don't know what song it
was for anything.
Dave Jones: I'm gonna I'm resisting the urge to get into
fee discussions here because I'm afraid everybody would just draw
their forehead into the wall.
Adam Curry: I don't know I think activity pub got me ready to
shoot myself. But you know, a few
Dave Jones: will say it will say I want
Adam Curry: to say where? Let me see. Then I wanted to just
because you were so kind to send through a bunch of questions, I
wanted to roll through your needs, you had three we need.
And so we just walked through those for a second. Because, you
know, seems like seems like it's something you want to talk
about. I don't know.
Dave Jones: Worse and an ad, yeah,
Adam Curry: analytics tags source tag and a tag to create
an ad ecosystem. Or we could talk about why affiliation is
the only solution to save the internet from online ads.
Benjamin Bellamy: How many? How much time do we have?
Adam Curry: Well, we got we got two minutes.
Benjamin Bellamy: I'd be very quick. No. Since fade seven is
closing on June. The First I was thinking that maybe we could add
a little, little. Yeah, a few more tags so that they don't get
bored.
Adam Curry: Oh, okay.
Dave Jones: Yes, thank you. All right, thinking of maybe Okay,
Adam Curry: so All right. Let's talk about him.
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, so we talked about the recommendation
tag that's probably need complete rewrites. I was
thinking about an a podcast analytics tag, because the other
day I was looking at some podcasts in mp3, and you have to
find the UID and see if it exist. And if you get a four,
four, it's mean that it's not there. So maybe just add a link
to the OP three page for this specific podcast. So that you
know if it's worth looking there, if it's here, and that's
very easy to do very cheap. And that will help promoting or p3,
I guess. I was also thinking about adding, and this was not
in my email, because I've been, I found a diver a dozen other
tags, where I was asleep last night. I think we need a country
tag because we know what language is. Is a podcast which
language it is, but we don't know from each country. So we
don't know if it's in English. If it's for US, UK, or Australia
or wherever. If it's French, we don't know if it's from Africa
from Belgium or Canada, Canada or France.
Adam Curry: Are you talking about using the ISO 3166? Code?
Exactly? Yeah, yeah.
Benjamin Bellamy: That would be cool as well. Even if not
everyone uses it, it will give you a real idea of the numbers.
Because we really can tell now, unless we know that all of them.
And so
Dave Jones: something like the location tag location tag is
what the is what the is the location that the podcast is
about. But the country tag would be where it's originated.
Origin.
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, exactly. Because if you use the location
tag, to specify where the podcast was recorded, James
Cridland will get you. And yes.
Adam Curry: Because yes, which is why no one uses it. I'm
afraid to do it wrong. I don't want Cridland to slap me. Yeah.
That's, I'm a fan of that. I mean, people, people use it, or
PayPal, uses the 3166. And I always appreciate that when we
have donations for no agenda. Because no matter what we are
town, and believe me, there's a lot of Paris. You know, then you
can really see what country it is. And I I'm all for that. I
think it's a good idea. And I know most of them by heart, you
know, just because of the country stickers and that your
Europeans use. Yeah, on the cars.
Dave Jones: As I like to two letters like is that the two
letter codes?
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, it's exactly what I guess. Okay.
Benjamin Bellamy: I think we also need a source tag to know
where the podcast was originally broadcasted, or published. So
if, if before being a podcast, it was a Twitch live, or it was
a live item, or it was maybe on YouTube or on A radio network so
that you know where it was before being a podcast. Or maybe
it's a rerun. And that could be very useful in France, where,
you know, we don't do everything the same way.
Dave Jones: Oh, you mean that if if, if there's a podcast episode
you're listening to, you would want to know whether that
originally was like a radio program?
Benjamin Bellamy: Exactly if what we call native podcasts,
which means it was published as a podcast first, or if it's a
rerun or not. are a few radio podcasts? Yeah. And it would, it
would provide useful information to know where it was published
in the first place. Yeah, okay. So it's a URL. And if it's
empty, it means it's what we call in French. Podcasts.
Native, native. Native native. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You speak
French?
Adam Curry: May we? Speak of James Cridland? For just a
moment. You interviewed him for? What magazine? Was
Benjamin Bellamy: that for? Loop? Podcast? Magazine? Yes.
Adam Curry: The podcast magazine, which is a? I mean,
that's a beautiful product.
Benjamin Bellamy: Actually, it is. Yeah. 200 pages as a
Adam Curry: real? What's the circulation of that? There's a
lot of people and how do you even distribute that? Do you
have to order it? Or can or is there put them at newsstands? Do
you throw them out? Your car window? How do people get those?
Benjamin Bellamy: Know you subscribe on podcast.
magazine.fr.
Adam Curry: And then you get it in the mail? Yeah. And yes,
it's,
Benjamin Bellamy: it's published by a guy named Philip chapeau.
Who is also
Adam Curry: like, that's like Phil hat. Is that his name?
Philip? Chapeau. Phil hat.
Benjamin Bellamy: Exactly. Yeah. Actually, James Cridland calls
him Mr. Hats.
Adam Curry: There you go. Mr. Hat? Yes. You sent me some
clips. Which I did. I didn't know that. That you recorded it.
Was that from the interview that you recorded? And then you just
transcribed it? Or did you publish these somewhere? No,
Benjamin Bellamy: no one. Ever heard that before?
Adam Curry: Oh, well, can I play the one where you ask James
about me? Because obviously, it's about me. I think that's
the most important clip, please.
Benjamin Bellamy: Oh, here we go. Oh, you know,
Adam Curry: wait a minute. I had it set. You did? Left. Right.
Really? One second? You did you on left and him on?
Benjamin Bellamy: Right. Yeah.
Adam Curry: You have to play it on mono? Yes. Okay, that takes a
second here. Here we go. Let's see if this works.
Benjamin Bellamy: You know, Adam Korea doesn't mince his words
when she disagrees with someone. And that includes you. Are you
getting along?
Unknown: Yes, I think so. Yes, I think so. Absolutely.
Absolutely. He and I are both he and I are very similar.
Actually, we both are very obsessive about, about what we
are interested in. And that means that if people either
don't get it or are, you know, willfully not getting it, then,
you know, we will be we will not be particularly happy about
that. But no, you know, I think what is what is exciting about
the whole podcasting 2.0 ecosystem is that actually,
people are incredibly passionate about what they are, what they
are doing. And sometimes that means that people that people's
ideas clash, and that's actually great. I would much rather that
than interminable. You know, meetings, people saying one
thing and doing the other and blah, blah, blah, at least you
know, where you stand. So that's a good thing.
Adam Curry: Oh, that was kind of him. Yeah, I agree. I'm totally
on board. That's, I
Dave Jones: agree to Yeah, agree to it's better. Like, it's
better to have people get super pissed off. Yeah. And then gripe
at each other and figure it out, and then figure it out, figure
it out. Yeah, figure it out and move forward. And then you're in
then everybody's fine. I mean, that's one thing. That's one
thing that defines this group more than any other open source
project I can ever remember. Exactly. Yeah. The passion and
the disagreement, but then everybody just moves on and
gets. We just push stuff out. It's more it's wonderful.
Adam Curry: That's why I say we I was gonna say Sam Sethi you
didn't have to send a note of apology for what you said about
me this week. He sent me he sent me an email. I'm sorry in
advance for my passion. was like I Have a curry. There's Adam
curry that was like, brother you don't? I've given up my right to
be offended long time ago. It's all good. And I love your
passion.
Benjamin Bellamy: And you have to say when you disagree to, to
find meaning point in the end. Yeah. Yeah. Which leads me to my
last tag. We go because this one I think it's it's something on
which Adam and I strongly disagree. Beautiful here we go I
think we need a podcast add tag for advertising. Oh,
Adam Curry: for a very Why would you think I would disagree with
that I'm already interested I like this I just the fact that
you're thinking about it makes me interested.
Benjamin Bellamy: I think you disagree because you're not so
much in the advertising. industry or a that's not the way
you you wish to promote podcasting. My point of view is
that we we cannot let YouTube and we cannot abandon the
podcast advertising to YouTube, or to Spotify or to anyone. And
there's something I was quite surprised when I first looked at
it, the numbers of the how many YouTube channels they are? I
don't know if you know that. No. Yeah, because no one knows.
Because obviously YouTube's they keep these hidden and secrets.
But we think they are around 30,000 youtube 30 million,
sorry, 30 million YouTube channels, which compared to 4
million podcasts is quite impressive. And the reason why
is, I guess that people try and build channels on YouTube,
because they have a dream that they will be able to monetize
and to make money out of it. Even if they don't know there is
no number of how much money you can get from a YouTube channel.
Like not if you're the first one or in the top 10. But if your
average, what's the median income from a YouTube channel
$2. But the thing is, the dream works. And YouTube manage to get
everyone on on its platform. And my fear is that, even though so
far, it doesn't work at all. Eventually, they managed to get
every podcaster in the world on their platform, because it's
easy. You don't pay for the hosting, you get all the tools
you need. You get the social network, you get the search
engine, you get the player, and you get the monetization
monetization parts. And as soon as they get everyone on board,
and it's across silo, and they have a monopoly, it's game over.
Probably some of us will still fight for an open and
interoperable podcasting across system. But you know, that
doesn't wait very much. myself, when I'm looking for a video on
the internet, I'm going to YouTube. So that's a huge risk.
So I think we need a really open an interconnected advertising
system for the podcasting industry. And one, we're all the
counterparts all the actors can share the same goal, because so
far, if you're looking at how things are working, if you're a
podcaster, you can add inserts an ad like audio ad, but the app
will get nothing out of it. And on the other end, if an ad puts
an advertise an advertisement on the app, like podcast addict
does, the podcaster will get nothing. So
Adam Curry: let me jump in here. Are you suggesting just let me
see if I'm following along and add tag that is an open call
that says you can add an advertisement to this podcast
and then there's here's some parameters, etc. So that
everyone knows. So you're building an open ecosystem so
that advertisers and advertising companies could come from the
outside and just utilize that
Benjamin Bellamy: and share revenue between the host, the
app, the podcaster.
Dave Jones: So this sounds like this sounds sort of like what
Google is trying to do in the browser with their new would get
the name of it with this new thing where they're essentially
turning the browser into the ad auction platform. But you're
saying that so instead of having a centralized ad,
Adam Curry: or host only, or a hosting company only, that's
kind of how I see it working now, as the hosting companies
are doing a lot of that work,
Dave Jones: or sandbox. Thank you. Thank you.
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, but the thing is, we need to be first to
write down this specification so that it meets what we need, what
we think would be the right thing to do. For one thing,
there's something really cool that I like a lot about the
podcasting ecosystem, is that there is no cookie. There's
never been any cookies in the podcasting apps. So right now,
if you're listening to a podcast with audio insertion, maybe it
will be geo localized. But that's about it. Because the
attack doesn't know anything about you as a listener. When
you go on the websites, they have your whole history for the
past six months, when you're listening to a podcast in a
podcast app, they know nothing, which is a really good thing in
my point of view, because I think that advertisements should
be contextual,
Dave Jones: for energy, here's
Benjamin Bellamy: what I hear rely.
Dave Jones: Here's what I would like to see. If if this is
something that the advertising we we hear all the time from the
ad people from media roundtable was sounds profitable. I mean,
there's there Magellan, there's, I mean, all endless numbers of,
of advocates and advertising agencies within podcasting and
audio in general, if this is something that they want to have
as an open specification for, for this type of thing, if the
if they're sear if if like, if that's something they want, I
would like that, I would say they should write it, they
should write the specification, submitted to the net to the
namespace and let everybody hash it out.
Adam Curry: And the part that I like Benjamin, and that's where
you where you grab my attention is that everybody shares in it,
the host, the podcast, and the app, that part I like, I like a
lot. But I'm with Dave, like, hey, you know, you guys are
always talking about it. Here's your opportunity. Go build it.
Right it Oh, yeah. But
Benjamin Bellamy: I don't think if we wait for the ad tech to
write that. I don't think that's going to go well. They're
probably tried to reproduce what they've been doing on the
internet for the past 20 years. And I don't like that as, as a
as a user. Ad
Dave Jones: Tech is abandoning podcasting. Anyway, eventually
on the long term, then, I mean, they're, they're gonna bail out,
they're already trying to create a narrative of transition that
podcasting is is converting to video. Which is completely not
completely not true. That but it's because the money is
leaving podcasting and going to YouTube. So the ad agencies and
the digital advertising market is trying to create this
narrative so they can follow the money over to YouTube and bail
out of podcasts. And I think I think they're leaving anyway. So
I don't think we're choosing any of that.
Benjamin Bellamy: Which is exactly my point. I don't
abandoned everything to YouTube. So
Dave Jones: I guess but I guess what I'm saying is that if they
all leave there won't be anybody to even run this system anyway.
Benjamin Bellamy: I'll be here.
Dave Jones: You already I mean, you add
Benjamin Bellamy: I'm fine. We've 100% of the market shares.
Adam Curry: Yeah, you write it up. I vote yes. I vote your
vote. I'd love to see it. Yeah, I'd love to see it. We'll call
it the cast to
Dave Jones: add tag. Yes.
Adam Curry: Let's thank a few people as we near the end of our
time here today in this board meeting which has been just
lovely to to catch up with our our good old friend there.
Benjamin bellick Bellamy from from France. We have a number of
boosts that came in Dobie das RSS blue with 1000 SAS just came
he says I just sent a booster Graham about how I hate fees and
all of it went to the artist To
Bouverie 808 a boob burry booths this time next week. Homegirl is
an ad. This this is how I like advertising. This time next week
homegrown hits featuring Dame DeLorean Mary Kate altra and
dacb Cooper will have the first ever bootable disco ball. I
found a guy who's got a big big rehearsal space in Minneapolis.
He wants to host an onboard day where we bring in all the bands
that use the space onboard them and get them on stage for a set
during the live stream. And he says I'm going to need V for V
music videos. And blueberry is very, very jacked up about all
the music stuff. I love that. Of course he was a big part of the
Ainsley and just loud concert he has phantom power phantom power
music our 2000 SATs boosting for the Dutch Duke of decentralized
music thanks Adam and Dave love you to rove ducks from anonymous
you're seriously simple podcasting WordPress plugin is
very easy to use for an average user like myself What are you
saying who has the seriously simple podcasting WordPress
Dave Jones: a simple that's a cat that's what is the name of
that forgot to totally forgot the name of the host it's it's
escaping me. It's a guest host Thank you Nathan.
Adam Curry: catch those. Another 808 from blueberry dramatic been
adding all the music feeds we've hosted to our pre show feed for
pod roll can't wait to see it display fully somewhere. There
you go. People are publishers. We have a pod roll. I got a pod
rollin on my podcast now. D wave DW ev 1789 Mercy Benjamin for a
fantastic platform so proud to be contributed to the project.
Are you familiar with D wave? Yeah. Okay. And Matt madeiros
1000 SATs coming in from true fans. He says you're thinking
Dave about Tanner Campbell. Tanner, can. Whatever happened
to him? Whatever
Dave Jones: happened? Yeah, he calls waves for a long time. And
then he just he waves away to substack and he said one day he
said I'm not going to do this anymore by
Adam Curry: Joe Martin music with 2100 sets and he says SATs
greater than streams. Hear that? Sir Brian of London 1948 This
week's episode better be full of Janessa quoi? I think we had
beaucoup Shanice ACWA kala Mona. I listened to striper boost 7777
listening live while preparing for my long drive back to
Missouri from California this weekend. This is her libre i
love playing here in value verse thank you all for your hard
work. Where are we with categories? Also Are we ever
going to get more Tor con seven May God bless you my brothers
sir libre. Yes, where's your kid man? northmor torque on now
Dave Jones: my my my son is currently trying to find a
welding gig so he has no time for for torque on paint. You
Adam Curry: think you think that the there'll be plenty of
openings for welders is
Dave Jones: there is yeah there is he's just he's a PCB and he
doesn't have his certification yet. Okay. Fully Certified. So
he's trying to try to find a gig where he can work and still go
to school to get his finisher certification.
Adam Curry: Dred Scott, the Bruce Wayne podcast in 2.0 with
a nice Rav ducks 22,222 Who says boosting MC boost boost boost
back at you drip and drip of course also does our chapters we
appreciate that salty Crayon 1111 here on upbeats ranch doing
things a little differently going forward might hurt some
feelings, but Bitcoin basic education is needed. We got too
many clueless cattle running around with no border collie to
guide them where to go wave Lake is Cargill. Okay he's cargoes
like the big big big ag we don't get from there anymore next the
bucket of Lb eggs in one basket is to fall from now on it's
grassroots grass finished musicians that get to come into
the ranch ITP
Dave Jones: like grass finished moose musicians
Adam Curry: Yeah, well we definitely need if we need to
get Royer we need more more solutions for wallets for sure.
For sure. I have resorted to telling people that you know
what you can't do have to be afraid of Bitcoin you can buy it
right through you're right on Wall Street right through your
broker through your your for your your ETF. It's official.
It's real. It's not to it's not a scam. And let me see I think I
think that's it. Yeah. Then I hit the delimiter. So Dave over
to you know,
Dave Jones: yeah, we got some Guess pay pals this week? We got
Buzzsprout our friends over there with $1,000 monthly
donation
Unknown: Sakala 20 is played on EMTALA.
Adam Curry: Thank you so much, guys. That's I mean, Trent.
Dave Jones: You're trying to get them back. Yes. Still trying to
get them back back on the show can't Yeah, but we this like,
scheduling chaos. So it's
Adam Curry: not on our end.
Dave Jones: History. Yeah, we'll get them on soon. And right,
right behind that Marco arm and $500 Yeah, another.
Adam Curry: Saqqara plays only Impala. There was an interesting
remark on the podcast weekly review that we don't give Marco,
any shit for not adding any podcasting 2.0 features that I'm
paraphrasing. And I would say that the genesis of what Dave
and I are doing here is the podcast index, which is to keep
a free and open ecosystem for podcasting, specifically podcast
apps. Marco supports us with not just treasure but time and
talent, we have a correct me if I'm wrong, we have a
synchronization with his database and our database. And
he uses us as a fallback. And whenever he finds something we
don't have he automatically plugs it in. And, you know,
there's all these features that just came along, and we've just
stuck it in for the ride. I mean, that was not anything in
our initial mission statement. You know, for the same reason,
I'm sure. Podcast weekly review doesn't call out Buzzsprout for
not adding several features. We appreciate Marcos support.
Dave Jones: Well, I'm not going to call out any indie app
developer for anything. I can't, I can't run their business, and
I can't tell them what to do. But he also Yeah, he provides
time with syncing and giving us a constant stream of new feeds.
And he donates $500 a month. Yeah. So that his own
competitors can have an index to use. I mean, it's like it's
really hard to criticize that. Exactly. I mean, it's, I don't
know what to say. I mean, you
Adam Curry: said exactly that. No, you're exactly right. I
mean, it's. And yes, he's funding his own competition. So
that's beautiful. I love that. Yeah. kawaman where
Dave Jones: his mouth is, yes. Really hard to criticize
anything about that in front end in likewise, Franco Celerio $100
on when
Adam Curry: you hit him a big ball to Sakala
Unknown: 20 blades on him Paula
Dave Jones: cat from CAST ematic. And you just says thank
you. I mean, there's another there's another app developer,
giving money to the index to support us so that other app
developers, one of which I emailed with yesterday, who's
creating a sermon like religious podcast based app. Oh, and he's
trying to figure out, you know, what, how to use the index, and
I've been helping him. Oh, cool. And it's like, cool. You know,
there's, there's Marco and Franco, and Mitch and all the
all these app developers that are providing the money to fund
the index to help other people who can't afford it, who are
just starting out, and I just think that's, I mean, that's
great. Yes. And let's see, we got Oh, Thomas homestead
homestead media $25 And he says, caught my four year old running
full speed with an open pair of scissors. Yeah, that was a good
reminder to sense of value. Yes.
Keep up the great work Thomas.
Adam Curry: Nothing like teaching your kid Good. Good.
Good practices early on.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Let's see we got some boosts we got. Thank
you, Thomas. De Jackson. The legend 2000 says three true
fans. Oh, great tune. Yeah, sure which to
Adam Curry: do which Sam we need some to V record info brother. I
know he's working on it.
Dave Jones: Pot home berry or buddy over there. 20,000 SAS
through podcasts guru says great timing. Live is currently in
beta for select users and pod home it's almost ready for the
mainstream including an ice cast server hosted by adding the chat
tag is something that will make this a more complete feature.
Yes. Nice. Yep. Nice. We didn't even talk about that a funnel as
the chat tag over the past weekend so no,
Adam Curry: I saw it you asked for eyes on I looked at it and
went okay, I looked at it I hope it's okay.
Dave Jones: We had what I asked for feedback and I got one reply
which was Barry saying looks good. I consider that to be
successful deployment. Yes. Okay, good. Our W Nash 2000 SATs
through fountain he says still missing the Delta Sierra.
Adam Curry: Well, to Delta share, Charlie, is that what he
means?
Dave Jones: A decent Delta Sierra I'm not sure what he
means.
Adam Curry: Well, it used to be the daily source code was also
known as the Delta Share. Charlie I'm not sure what the
delta shear is.
Dave Jones: I don't know. Gene been 2222 He says another great
boardroom discussion Keep up the good work well Thank you Jean
for your monitoring and all everything else you do. Oh,
there's elite boost from Gene 137 to cast ematic he says also
the fountain boost bought in the splits it seems broken it's
showing no route
Adam Curry: that may be something I have to change me
right down my list because they changed the LG nodata Yeah, I
think I have to change that. Okay, found some boost.
Dave Jones: We got Oscar coming up here in the next good weeks
and we're gonna discuss a lot of that type of stuff with him
good. Kevin Bay 50,000 says Oh, thank you guys. God verse. Says,
Dave, watch Guys and Dolls if you haven't seen it yet. One of
my favorite musicals of all time Sinatra and Brando is a classic.
i We watched it three weeks ago. And and and I did technical
theater, the lighting for guys and dolls when I was in high
school.
Adam Curry: Did you like it? So did you like the music? Great,
Dave Jones: great musical.
Adam Curry: What are you watching this week?
Dave Jones: Let's see. This week. We watched we actually we
watch something that wasn't a musical. We watched. Oh, no. We
watched Roman Holiday be seen that movie. Ah. Is that where
you pick and who's the who's the Breakfast at Tiffany's?
Adam Curry: Audrey Hepburn? Audrey Hepburn? Sure. I've seen
it at some point. Yes, she's
Dave Jones: the British princess who goes to
Adam Curry: they wind up riding around on Vesper scooters a lot.
Yeah, okay. I've seen it
Dave Jones: as a good movie, but then we also we also watched
Julie Andrews in Sound of Music. We're about halfway through that
sound of
Adam Curry: music. I love that. I can watch that over and over
again.
Dave Jones: Julie Andrews playing the guitar that's now
Adam Curry: that part I could do without but I just like the you
know, like when they're running from the Nazis, and they're all
hiding. It was spooky and scary when I saw it as a kid and I
still love it.
Dave Jones: Also bonus points for using the phrase
flibbertigibbet which is always a good turn Liberty Jouvet. Yes.
Are you are you a fan of musicals? Benjamin? Yeah. Is are
their French or their French? They're
Adam Curry: miserable. And baby. Lamb is
Benjamin Bellamy: true. Yeah, many of them are. Regarding
movies. Check Domi if you heard of him was very famous. And he
inspired like lala land. And really
Adam Curry: interesting. When I was a kid, when I was 13 or 12.
I live in a very small village outside of Amsterdam. And on
Sundays, they would have a movie for the kids at like the kind of
town hall ish was what it was. And the movies I liked the most
were Louie, Louie funa Yeah, and I mean, he had the like the the
crazy Citro n ds that I think that thing could fly. If I
remember if I recall, did you ever watch any of those movies?
Louis?
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, yeah, sure. Sure. That very famous,
probably most famous. funny movies in France. Yeah.
Dave Jones: The only a somehow French is it. Francoise Hardy.
As she was dubbed in my ear, she she ended up in my Spotify
playlist and I'm, I'm a huge fan. Now. I don't know what
she's saying. But yeah, we need you to send me some French
musicals because my wife has been learned. She's, oh, she
speaks French. She speaks French very well. And she's been
learning French for years now. And she's, she's very, she
speaks it very well. So but she was just saying today that she
wants to do a more immersive French on Fridays. And so she
wants to basically start listening to French podcasts.
Basically everything French on Fridays so that she can get get
deeper into it. And need some musicals for I think she would
like dicey
Benjamin Bellamy: Stinky Cheese. Cheese. Yeah, she got she can
watch crystal Funabashi movies. Record good.
Dave Jones: Let's see we get say that was Kevin Bay. Thank you.
Kevin guna Gomez into pod verse 3456 sets congrats with the
impressive stats guys. Hopefully we can get over the 69 million
sets in 2024. Thank you, man, Franco. Oh, this is Frank. Yeah,
this is Franco from cast. ematic 10,000 says coming in, cat suck.
You have a chance go see Rocky Horror Show hands down my
favorite musical Cats.
Adam Curry: And I hate the animal cats. He just hates the
musical Cats. Yes. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I agree. Thank you, Frank. Ah, sir Brown of London
11 948 Mega Israel boost cast ematic he says definitely saw
Mamma Mia in the West End to Oh, yeah. No, I think it originated
there. Maybe a comic strip blogger that delimiter 30,000
Different and he says, How do you Dave and Adam? Oh boy, hold
on to your dentures for grumpy old Ben's podcast. Join our two
grumpy hosts Darren, the unemployed O'Neill from the
windy city of Chicago and Ryan, the Amazon delivery driver
bemrose from the land of caffeine and rain Seattle, as
they dive headfirst into the madness of today's world from
their cozy bunkers. It's like listening to Statler and Waldorf
from the Muppets, but with sarcasm and less felt more info
www dot grumpy old bands.com Yo CSB Thank
Adam Curry: you comics for Blogger always promoting other
podcasts that's really appreciated. That wasn't that
should have had an add tag
Dave Jones: add tag next time CSP funny news your use chat GPT
to make it whenever
Adam Curry: whenever people do like adds in value for value
notes. It didn't never bothers me.
Dave Jones: No, not me. Never. It's funny because they're fun.
They take they care. Yeah, they like it is personal. And
Adam Curry: we don't have to wait for the advertising
company. Just send us a check. You know, it's immediate.
Dave Jones: It doesn't have to it doesn't break in halfway
through a word.
Adam Curry: Yes. And we don't have to have a meeting with the
client. I love it. It's really good. It's very good.
Dave Jones: We got some monthly see. We got we got Satan's law
your five $5 from Down Under, which seems appropriate.
Adam Curry: I have not listened to his episode yet. I've been
resisting I've been resisting Satan.
Dave Jones: I just I just love that Satan's lawyer lives down
under this. Thanks so much. Michael Gagan $5 Charles current
$5 Thank you guys. James Sullivan. $10 Christopher Raymer
$10 Sean McCune $20 Think shone. Cohen glotzbach Which I'm sure
I've also mispronounced 1000 times please tell me if I'm
wrong. $5 Kevin Bay $3.81 from the 2.0 Endowment Fund. Thank
you. Thank you. And Jordan Dunnville $10
Adam Curry: Wow, good reads Dave. Oh, and right on time
beautiful. It now being? What is it? 10? No. 930 in Paris, the
beautiful lights of Paris over the sand as lovers stroll by the
waterway. Can you see any of that where you are?
Benjamin Bellamy: No, because I had to shut down the corroding
to make sure there is no April. So I see nothing.
Dave Jones: Then just cinder blocks and calling in plaster.
Benjamin, we
Adam Curry: appreciate you so much, man. You've been you've
been at this very, very early in the game. Well, as you said, we
kind of start at the same time. And you've just been a great
supporter and we love what you do with Casta bot. One last
question I had for you Has there ever been or have you considered
Docker rising this and getting it onto Umbral or my preference
start nine
Benjamin Bellamy: it is Deckard. I think you can install custom
pod on the you know host Docker we have a Kubernetes
installation and Sybil scraped everything so we have a
wonderful community doing all that stuff borrows so we don't
have to do and regarding the umbrella I think it's I don't
know if someone did it but there there are official Docker images
so should be pretty easy to do.
Adam Curry: If anyone out there as it knows what to do, I mean
if you start nine I would love to have cast the pot and start
nine because they're going to do open networking soon so you
won't have to deal with just Tor and I and I I would love to try
that out here at home so if anyone wants to take that
Dockerized stuff and package it up which is a little bit beyond
my paygrade I think it'd be great I will promote it that's
for sure.
Dave Jones: Cast a pod on our on the on the on the umbrella or
the start nine plus IPFS podcasting for distribution
Adam Curry: really a great win, win win win it will be
phenomenal. Absolutely.
Benjamin Bellamy: PFS won't be that easy. On the other hand,
yeah,
Adam Curry: we already have IPFS podcasting.
Dave Jones: It already works you know Yeah, so
Adam Curry: where are you been? Man
Dave Jones: we got it. Have you Yeah, have you seen that working
been?
Benjamin Bellamy: I had a quick look.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you check it out. It's it's good but like for
for somebody who's hosting out of their house and can't afford
it would just fall down on the, you know, the bandwidth demand.
That's, that's a great solution. Yeah.
Benjamin Bellamy: The thing is, it requires quite a bunch of
refactoring castparts which is why we had a deeper look into
that yet.
Dave Jones: So with Pell You mean for you mean to put the
prefix in? Yeah. Oh, I see what you mean. Okay. Yeah. That makes
it well, I guess the Yeah. Because you're, you're uploading
directly, okay. Yes. What you make is you'd have to, you'd
have to put the D enclosure on a CDN and then put the prefix in.
Yeah, we'd have
Benjamin Bellamy: to change some stuff. First. Yeah. But we'll
get there.
Adam Curry: No doubt. I mean, this is what's so beautiful.
It's like there's no rush. We'll get there. When we get there.
The podcast is gonna be around for a long after we're gone.
That's the part that I love, love knowing. And
Dave Jones: don't ever feel bad or apologize for having a long
to do list. Because if your to do list is too short, that's
when you burn out.
Adam Curry: All right, gentlemen, Benjamin. Thank you
very much. We appreciate you.
Benjamin Bellamy: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'd like
to add two things. If, of course, follow me of course.
First, there's one subject that we couldn't talk about is the
podcasting 2.0 logo, so we'll have to do that some other time.
Because Daniel JD always asked me if I could have a look and
make a nice logo for this. I don't know if you could see the
thread on Mastodon I have not Yeah. And last I do eat snails
and frogs
Adam Curry: you know what we actually eat snails here in
Texas. It a Bavarian restaurant Believe it or not. So I'm with
you on that. I'd like to ask our go the frog we've
Dave Jones: been we've been in frogs and Alabama Yeah. Before a
year before
Adam Curry: France Yes. Exactly. Oh
Dave Jones: yeah. With frog frog gig frog Gagan is a Do you know
frog Gagan? Do you know that bit now? Frog gigging is you take a
little it's like a spear and it has like a trident on the end of
it with three prongs. Yeah, you get frog gig and then you get
you go and you just pop one of them in great and throw them all
in a bucket and then you come back and cut their legs off and
eat them.
Adam Curry: See See we're not barbarians here. No. I knew that
we get we eat snails we eat frog we also eat squirrels. But
that's maybe for the foreign for another another episode. We have
been known to eat a squirrel or two roadkill. Roadkill frog
Gigan Alright everybody. Thank you so much, brother, Dave.
Thank you have a great weekend, my brother and don't worry about
that to do list. I'll see you guys okay. Viva la que viva la
podcast. Thank you very much Benjamin. We love you, man. And
of you too. Thank you very much to everybody in the chat room,
which is known as the boardroom we convert it. We'll be back
next week with another episode of podcasting 2.0.
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Benjamin Bellamy: James Cridland will get you