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Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0
February 23 2024 Episode 168

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Hello, everybody. Hello
everybody in the boardroom

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Welcome to the official board
meeting of podcasting point oh,

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everything happening at
podcasting index.org That new

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fancy website podcasting two.org
Of course, all the things

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happening with a namespace we
have a special guest today. One

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of the members of the board and
everything happening in podcasts

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index dot social. This is the
boardroom that runs its own LLM

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on local machines. I'm Adam
curry here in the heart of the

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Texas Hill Country and an
Alabama the man who is looking

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to survive against the ESPYs AI
say hello to my friend on the

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other end. Mr. Dave Joe.

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Dave Jones: Nobody survives
against CSB on a did I mean,

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we'll just make a mockery of
view with his cartoons

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Adam Curry: did I see him typing
a prompt and it created an RSS

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feed with an enclosure is that
what is that what I saw? Yeah.

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Dave Jones: Yeah. And then
somebody else said, Hey, try

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this. And he's like, No, you do
it. Okay, I don't want to.

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Adam Curry: Oh, that already
sounds super suspicious.

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Dave Jones: I've been playing
with the NVIDIA chat with RTX

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tool.

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Adam Curry: Do you? Do you have
the card that you need for that?

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Yeah, you have an NVIDIA card.
Mm hmm.

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Dave Jones: Get a 3050 It's not
a powerful card, but you don't

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need much you'll all you need is
is eight, you need a 3000 series

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card. And you need which 3050 is
like $200 so you can get like

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you know a 3000 series RTS card
minimum and you need a minimum

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eight gigs of RAM on board
cards. So that's what this has.

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So you can run it nuts. I mean,
it's not fast, but it's me but

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it's doable. But the cool like
the interesting thing is like

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use it loads up all the stuff
and it's got a pretty beefy

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model it's like 30 Gig oh that's
quite large. Yeah, it's pretty

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big it's the Miss Mistral model
Yeah. And it was I don't know

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God who knows with all these
local these LLM 's they have

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like a genealogy tree that's
hard to trace now but but it's

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got it's got a big model and
then you put this guy in a

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folder and you drop in PDFs txt
files or Word documents into

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this folder and then have it
regenerate regenerate this ra G

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which is like it takes the model
and then it applies the model to

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your local set of material. So
then you're you're basically

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it's like an adjunct to training
for the for the model itself. So

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it only it really only will tell
you stuff about this about what

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you train it with. Do

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Adam Curry: you Do you remember
back in the day when we were

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talking like a 3050 you would
automatically think that means a

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carburetor for your motorcycle
and a big model a big models

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that you were dating a
Kardashian I mean, what has

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happened to our what has
happened to our conversation?

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Man? My

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Dave Jones: truck has an auto
line 1100 Fulbrighter Exactly,

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exactly.

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Adam Curry: Let me take a look
at when I'm so I have the I have

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the LLM are running on the Start
OS and let me see what models I

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have. I have Yeah, the biggest
one I have is 7.5 gigs. That's

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the new ma llama two and the
Metho max which is five so yeah,

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that's a that is a beefy model I
don't have something that big.

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Dave Jones: Oh it's like 32 Gig
download huge wow it's huge but

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it's a drop the podcast
namespace into it back into it

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as the only training material
and edited

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Adam Curry: do you have to say
learn this is that we have to do

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we just say hey, suck this in.
What is the what prompt do you

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give when you do that?

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Dave Jones: Yeah, you hit the
suck this in button.

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Adam Curry: Really? There's I'm
not even gonna question I'm sure

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there is.

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Dave Jones: You hit the stop
button and it sucks it in and it

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regenerates everything it takes
depending on how much material

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you give it. It can take a long
time but like with just that

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document it took I don't know a
minute and it

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Adam Curry: keeps that and it
stores that forever.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, it's
it trains it retrains the it

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retrains the wow. This is the
part I don't understand because

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there's this thing called an RA
G so it's like

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Adam Curry: a it's a reg
basically. What you get it's a

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reg it

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Dave Jones: creates the reg of
the model and then and then you

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and then you wipe stuff with it.
But you get but so I asked it

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something last data said well, I
told it as a generate a podcast

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and 2.0 chapters file with
chapters at these times at these

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time markers with these titles.
Just basically gave it a basic

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task that it should know how to
do off them off the namespace

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and, and if the first the
chapters file came out good. The

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next thing I asked it to do was
created an RSS feed item tag

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with an mp3 enclosure and, and
HLS stream as the alternate

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enclosure. And it complete it
partially filled. fell down. He

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gave what he gave me as a live
item, not an item. Okay.

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Adam Curry: Impressive is still
impressive. No, it

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Dave Jones: was good. It was
good. But it started making up

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attributes like it was a
hallucination is attribute

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attribute hallucination. And so
that it was making it for the

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for the enclosure tag it gave it
like a a bit rate attribute and

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a height attribute and all these
weird things,

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Adam Curry: correct it or you
just say you suck. I'm what do

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you do at that point?

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Dave Jones: But yeah, I did say
you suck. I said that a couple

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times. But then also, you could
also pull in just I think he

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could just pull in more spec.
They could just keep pulling in,

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you know, like, if, because I
didn't pull in the RSS 2.0. spec

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itself. I didn't pull in the
iTunes namespace like, I think

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you could just keep piling
material in here to give it more

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to work with. And it would give
you better answers. But

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Adam Curry: oh, man, that's
great. So pretty soon just have

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that thing show up to the
podcast.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, that would be
good. And then and you wouldn't

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even need me. We wouldn't need
we can just AI generate the

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guest. Yeah.

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Adam Curry: That's pretty cool,
though.

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Dave Jones: It's I mean, it's
fun. It's so

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Adam Curry: fun is the key word.
I mean, would you actually put

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something like that under
production for any action? Can

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you see yourself creating a cron
job to do something like that?

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Dave Jones: And no, like, I
know, I guess, let me talk about

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AI for just a second. Because
I've been I've got some thoughts

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on this. I haven't really, I
guess, I don't know, I haven't

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really spent time trying to
figure out my thoughts on it in

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general. And I guess, like the
AI tool, I guess I've just got a

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couple of thoughts after
listening to especially

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listening to Todd.

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Adam Curry: Todd. I know, I
know. Like, oh, it's so great. I

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don't have to do it. I don't
have to show up. I just throw it

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on there. But if we're looking
to add the believer he usable

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believers definitely as a
follower of the Chad G pts.

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Dave Jones: And I cannot tell
I'm not gonna take that away

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from him. I mean, clearly,
there's some. I think what we

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have to, here's my, here's where
I think I stand right now is if

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so, I guess number one, two,
these AI tools being built for

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that are being built for stuff
like podcasting, they work, you

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can see that they will work
well, when they're targeted for

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specific tasks, or processes.
Yes, yeah. Where in this, I

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think this is key, where there's
a human approval step at the end

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of that pipeline. Yes, which is,
which itself is not too time

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consuming. So you could say
something like, give me a bunch

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of chapter, you know, give me
chapters for this. Here's the

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transcript, give me a bunch of
chapters for this with markers

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at this, these few key points,
and just try to generate some

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titles. And then it gives you
that thing, and then you can

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just quickly scan the title, see
if they make sense for you.

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Maybe hit a couple of previews
and see if they make sense. Like

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if it if it can do some of the
grunt work, and then give you a

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thing to quickly reviewed and
make sure for you to sign off on

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to me that that's the best use
case for the of this.

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Adam Curry: I mean, I've used
it. I use my old models that I

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said, and I'm going to blow my
cover on this one, but Mark void

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zero, you know, he started his
own IT company. And his number

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one client is no agenda. That's
his first client. Yeah, so we

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want we wanted to help them out.
Yeah, exactly. And so he said,

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Would you mind writing me a
recommendation? blow my cover

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here. So I went into my, into
my, my starred nine. And I gave

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it you know, like, I don't know,
maybe two or three sentences.

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And it pooped out a very decent
review. It was flowery. So you

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know, I cut out some of the
flowery nonsense and send it to

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him. He's like, wow, this is so
great. And I didn't have the

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heart to tell him that. An LM
had done it. But for that, I was

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like, Yeah, that's actually you
know, just looking at it. It's

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very, I'd say reasonably close
to what I would have done for a

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glowing review. It was not bad
at all.

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Dave Jones: It's really hard to
contain to keep in your mind

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that this is Is not that when
the AI is pre is when the when

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the model is giving you results,
the language model. I'm gonna

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I'm trying to be specific say
language model not not AI,

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because it's this is, this is
different. So when it's hard to

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remember this, and when you're
using it, but I think it is

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actually critical to remember is
the LLM is not it doesn't know

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anything. No, in the sense that
we mean that we all understand

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what that term is. And these
language models don't know any,

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all they know is, is likelihood
of a word to come after another

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word in a particular context.
They're just regurgitating

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language patterns. Yeah, it's

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Adam Curry: a parlor trick. Your
brain goes, Wow, it's talking to

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me. Right?

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Dave Jones: And you may come out
with something very useful.

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Adam Curry: You may not, but you
may not.

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Dave Jones: When I say when I
say, give me an item, an RSS

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podcast item, with an HLS ID
alternate enclosure in it, you

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immediately see a thing in your
head, because you know what

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those words mean? This thing
only knows the language models

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only know, the text that it seen
before and the arrangement of in

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the order of the words in the
symbols that those texts appear.

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And so it's not actually able to
give you what you want, in the

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sense that it knows what you
want. No, it's just

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Adam Curry: like, in my in my
example. It's it's learned

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hundreds 1000s I don't know
10 1000s of glowing reviews

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probably sucked it in from Yelp.
And, and it knows that Yeah,

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okay. Well, it's this kind of
business. Here's the next word.

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Here's the next word. Yeah. I
mean, that's that, I can see

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that. And a professional writer
sees that. I mean, Tina helps

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people out with resumes all the
time. And they'll say, Okay,

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well, I did a start and she'll
get the document just to chat

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GPD she'll know right away you
can do to me? Yeah, of course.

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Of course you can see it. And I
think eventually, with, you

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know, these co pilots and all
this coding stuff, I think

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people will also I mean, again,
it's like, Okay, God created the

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world in six days. And the
seventh day, he had to take a

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break, because it took effort
and energy. That's the part that

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cannot be missing from the
creative process, the energy and

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the effort. And the there's
something soulful and spiritual

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that goes into creating things.
So to regurgitate and create

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things that have existed before.
And, you know, I mean, I see

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this with a no agenda Art
Generator, go look at a no

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agenda, art generator.com
artists have been creating

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artwork for the no agenda show
for 12 over a decade, there's

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35,000 images in there. And ever
since Dolly, and stable

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diffusion and all these other
different programs, many more

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people are uploading stuff that
is soulless. I'm looking at you

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comments from Blogger, it's
soulless. I mean, it's soulless.

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And it doesn't, it rarely gets
picked, sometimes someone has

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figured out how to use it and
how to, I guess go through

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several iterations and inject
actual humor, which is very hard

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to do. I haven't seen ai do
humor very well, or love or

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passion or any of this, it just
does. So then and when you look

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at it on mass, and you see me
you can see the the changeover

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in the work that's submitted,
and most of it that was

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beautifully rendered. But no,
it's just it's not funny. It's

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not there's no it has no soul.
That's it. The

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Dave Jones: The other thing I
thought of was AI tools. Like

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the stuff that's being built
right now with these sort of

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like third party startups that
are coming up. Those are all

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those startups those I'm sorry,
but those guys are toast the

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podcast hosting companies Yeah,
I think Buzzsprout was the first

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one to do it with there was a co
co host or something like that.

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And then transistors doing it,
but blueberry, they're all in

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rss.com They're all going to
start doing this I mean, they're

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all just because basically all
these third party tools now to

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do AI stuffs for to support
podcasters the hosting companies

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themselves are just gonna pull
that the debt scalability in

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Adam Curry: house yeah, and
those those little companies

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will all go broke because I
mean, right now this is the

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investment climate you know, the
climate This is where all the

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investment money's going into.
Oh,

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Dave Jones: in video, man, I
mean, they're just printing

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money right now is ridiculous. I
would not be. I'm going to, I

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gotta I gotta prediction. I
would not be surprised if in the

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end next three years in video
buys entail. Oh, that's very

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Adam Curry: possible. That's
possible. It will also be the

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best short of our lifetime. Once
everyone figures out what

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bullcrap this all really is.
Whenever they pivot to quantum

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computing, whatever comes next
comes next. I mean, remember it

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was machine learning just a year
ago. Yeah, it's all it's all

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branding. It's all brand new
stuff anyway. It's not gonna

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save podcasting. Yeah, that's in
podcasting doesn't need saving.

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No, no. But I've been, I've been
doing my, my show prep. And I

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have a question, why is there
this? And maybe it's just the

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podcast industrial complex,
which I loved is one of the most

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singularly unhelpful terms in my
vocabulary. This growing your

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podcast. You know, I'm a little
sick of the term. Because the

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whole world seems to be about
growing your podcast. And you

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have to have X amount of
downloads. And I like to people

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grow their tennis game or their
golf game, or just have fun

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playing golf. And playing
tennis. Not everybody has to be

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a pro. Is that I mean, am I
missing something here that,

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that you get into podcasting, it
has to be a profession?

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Dave Jones: It's, it's the math
of CPMs is all about, it's about

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it's all about the advertising.
How

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Adam Curry: about how about
serving a community? I

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Dave Jones: had this issue with
that dude, that was around for a

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while he bailed out of
podcasting. But he was making

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waves all the time about how
Spotify was the future of

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podcasting. I forget that dude's
name we used to work.

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Adam Curry: Where do you come
from?

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Dave Jones: He was like, he's
like a podcast consultant. Man,

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I cannot remember his name. But
he was a podcast consultant. And

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he was like, writing these
articles and arguing with people

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about how part of Spotify was,
was the way that all creators

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and all podcasters in the
future, were going to be able to

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make the most money. Yeah, and
all of his arguments were based

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on on advertising math, if you
have this many. So I mean, he's

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basically a formula like if you
have the I mean, Dolby das would

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love this. It's like a formula
of, you know, math formula of,

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if you put this if you have this
many listeners and this much

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growth rate, and you get this
CPM and this much reach and

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this, this level of engagement,
and bla bla bla bla bla and you

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put it all into this formula,
you're rich,

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Adam Curry: you got a plastic
egg with a ring inside.

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Dave Jones: And I was like, I
was like, Well, yeah, but that

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does any. Anybody stopped to ask
the listeners what? Like if

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they're willing to participate
in this formula? Because I'm not

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sure that it's as easy as all
that. Because if we all did

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that, this formula breaks down I
mean, this

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Adam Curry: Oh, yes. Oh, yeah.
Well, it's this the same type of

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people who are telling you, you
know, what you should do what

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your what your you know, your
how you do a podcast and you got

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to choose your topic. I got a I
got a one idea. Start a music

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podcast. This is an open field.
Don't don't start a podcast

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about talking something,
whatever the topic is. There's

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already one there. Start a music
podcast.

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Dave Jones: I've gotten an even
better, maybe not better idea.

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I've got another idea. Start an
audio book.

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Adam Curry: There you go.

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Dave Jones: I mean, just start
doing audio book podcasts and

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put put value for value tags in
it. I mean, he talks about

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Greenfield like we, every every
third week, excuse me two out of

292
00:18:52,350 --> 00:18:55,500
every three weeks that I
listened to America this week

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00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:59,280
podcast, the short story that
they talk about is not available

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00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,480
anywhere unknown in audio
infuriating. I mean, you listen

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to that show, find out what
audio book there are, excuse me,

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what what short story they're
talking about. It'll take you an

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hour, an hour and a half to
record it. Throw a value tag in

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there and launch it out there
and be and done boom, you're the

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only game in town you that's
that's the only Ste and most of

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these are all very old public
domain stories. They're all

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usually like, like 19th century
Russian literature. They're just

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00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:39,960
old stuff. But it's like you,
you're the only one that at that

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00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,230
point. You're the only available
source of this story in audio

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and you have a value tag where
you can go to

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Adam Curry: what's the what's
the the open source, public

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00:19:53,250 --> 00:19:58,800
domain website the printing
press guy, the printing the

307
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,520
printing press guy What's the
Gutenberg Gutenberg? I think

308
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,580
it's Project Gutenberg Thank
you. You can go to Project

309
00:20:05,580 --> 00:20:10,860
Gutenberg you can find all kinds
of books classics, even that are

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public domain and start reading
and recording. Yeah, I actually

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started I started it with Tom
Swift. Which I at the time I was

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blown away to the Tom Swift
books. You have read those Tom

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00:20:21,210 --> 00:20:24,480
Swift books, and never have no
you know of them Tom Swift and

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00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,330
electric electric grandmother
and all that stuff is flying

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00:20:27,330 --> 00:20:28,050
machine.

316
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Dave Jones: One Tom Swift, kind
of like Hardy Boys. But yeah, a

317
00:20:31,740 --> 00:20:32,310
pretty Hardy

318
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Adam Curry: Boys. Yeah, he was
an inventor. And you know, he

319
00:20:34,380 --> 00:20:38,070
had a flying machine. And then
he has submarine and Victor

320
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:41,370
Appleton, which is not even
that's a pen name that several

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00:20:41,370 --> 00:20:42,180
authors used.

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Dave Jones: And I like Mark,
like Mark Bognor again, Mark.

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Exactly.

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Adam Curry: And I actually
started reading a couple of

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those for an audio book project.
A while back now of course, I

326
00:20:53,190 --> 00:20:56,340
never completed it. But that's
because other things got in the

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00:20:56,340 --> 00:20:59,010
way. But I was like, this is
kind of fun to read all kinds of

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00:20:59,010 --> 00:21:05,430
stuff like that. I was. I was
invited to listen to this crew.

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00:21:05,670 --> 00:21:09,390
I was invited to something
called the V for V roundtable. I

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heard about it was it's a
podcast, and it was so new. I

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00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:17,340
didn't realize it was episode
number one. And they had asked

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00:21:17,340 --> 00:21:23,370
me to be a guest and it was
Jimmy V. Sir Lee Bray. And Sir

333
00:21:23,370 --> 00:21:27,600
TJ the wrathful. And it was
actually it was really it was

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quite it was quite adorable.
Until they got to the part where

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00:21:31,470 --> 00:21:34,290
they're like, Yeah, we want to
do a V for V awards. I'm like

336
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no, no stop now just stop and
they said lady Well, we really

337
00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:42,840
just wanted an excuse to hang
out or they find do a meet up.

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Awards are so Fiat to me these
days is like it's the antithesis

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00:21:48,510 --> 00:21:52,260
of of podcasting. It's really
the opposite

340
00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:55,140
Dave Jones: of the for V for
just they wanted to do awards

341
00:21:55,140 --> 00:21:56,760
for just music just for
anything.

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00:21:56,790 --> 00:21:58,920
Adam Curry: I think for music.
Yeah, I think from us, okay.

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Dave Jones: That's like how can
you do that funny though? I

344
00:22:03,030 --> 00:22:06,000
would watch it I would watch the
music course.

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00:22:06,330 --> 00:22:08,010
Adam Curry: What a train wreck
that would be.

346
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:09,480
Dave Jones: No I would that's
why

347
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,780
Adam Curry: these days award
shows are so wrong because it's

348
00:22:15,780 --> 00:22:19,020
a business model. You charge
people to submit. And I was

349
00:22:19,050 --> 00:22:23,970
never used to be that way used
to be. You know your peers. And

350
00:22:23,970 --> 00:22:27,060
who can be appear in this bit.
It's impossible. All of this is

351
00:22:27,060 --> 00:22:30,210
an arachnid and an arachnid
NISM. What is it

352
00:22:30,270 --> 00:22:33,480
Dave Jones: an anachronism that
I think you're talking about

353
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,970
spiders. I think that's what
yeah, that yes, arachnophobia.

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Adam Curry: That's my problem.
But an arachnid. I can't say the

355
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:39,360
word no.

356
00:22:40,140 --> 00:22:41,640
Dave Jones: anachronism,
anachronism.

357
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Adam Curry: And anachronism.
anachronism. Yes.

358
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:46,230
Dave Jones: Vestigial?

359
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Adam Curry: Yes, definitely.
There you go. Perfect.

360
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Dave Jones: Do we want to dare
venture into this into the fees

361
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:57,000
discussion?

362
00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:00,540
Adam Curry: Why don't we bring
our guests in because he'll be

363
00:23:00,570 --> 00:23:04,230
he'll be more fun to talk about.
He's been waiting patiently for

364
00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:11,070
about 20 minutes here. He is no
stranger to the boardroom. And

365
00:23:11,070 --> 00:23:16,650
he has been in the podcasting
2.0 projects from very early

366
00:23:16,650 --> 00:23:21,840
days. And he is as far as I
know, the first guest ever who

367
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:29,520
sent his own questions. Which I
thought was just great. He's

368
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,140
like, hey, we you're going to be
on the pocket? Yeah, here's some

369
00:23:34,140 --> 00:23:36,930
I have some that was it. Here's
some talking points. I thought

370
00:23:36,930 --> 00:23:40,320
we could talk about tomorrow.
Yes, perfect. We would like to

371
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,260
welcome back to the boardroom. A
fan favorite ladies and

372
00:23:43,260 --> 00:23:47,820
gentlemen all the way from
France. Benjamin Bellamy. Those

373
00:23:47,820 --> 00:23:53,280
rollerball know that Bonjour to
you, buddy. How are you? We're

374
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,250
good. We're good. And we
appreciate you coming on. We

375
00:23:56,250 --> 00:23:59,730
know that it's about eight
o'clock at night. I guess now in

376
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:00,960
it

377
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,520
Benjamin Bellamy: is eight
o'clock sharp.

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00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,760
Adam Curry: I have an important
question. Right off the top that

379
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,080
you are you in Paris? I forget
if you're in Paris. I am in

380
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,710
Paris. Yes. So what's up with
the farmers? How's that gone?

381
00:24:15,060 --> 00:24:18,000
Did they really are they really
pouring a cow poop into

382
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,390
government buildings because I
love that idea. Yeah,

383
00:24:21,390 --> 00:24:23,580
Benjamin Bellamy: but no in
Paris there weren't allowed to

384
00:24:23,580 --> 00:24:29,130
get into Paris. So we haven't
seen them. And actually, it

385
00:24:29,130 --> 00:24:33,000
didn't last very long. So have
their back to their farms now.

386
00:24:33,270 --> 00:24:35,940
Adam Curry: Yeah. But is that
resolved? Are they happy now?

387
00:24:35,940 --> 00:24:37,530
Because they seem pretty angry.

388
00:24:40,770 --> 00:24:43,710
Benjamin Bellamy: Is this a
political podcast? No,

389
00:24:43,710 --> 00:24:46,890
Adam Curry: no. I like farmers.
I'm just purely interested in

390
00:24:46,890 --> 00:24:51,120
because you're seeing these
protests around the world. And

391
00:24:51,150 --> 00:24:53,850
no one in America ever talks
about it and our farmers. I

392
00:24:53,850 --> 00:24:56,430
don't know what they're doing.
They're not pouring cow manure

393
00:24:56,430 --> 00:24:59,970
in anywhere. And you see it all
all over Europe. I'm just

394
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,330
Curious, is that is that fixed?
Are they happy? I mean, do you

395
00:25:03,330 --> 00:25:04,590
guys have food to eat?

396
00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:09,450
Benjamin Bellamy: No, nothing is
fixed, but they got home because

397
00:25:11,220 --> 00:25:21,420
the only thing that they managed
to to get is to, to be allowed

398
00:25:21,420 --> 00:25:27,300
to use pesticides and everything
and to stop all the ecological

399
00:25:27,810 --> 00:25:28,530
loads.

400
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,490
Adam Curry: So the climate
change stuff. Yeah.

401
00:25:32,490 --> 00:25:39,030
Benjamin Bellamy: So like the
climate. Yeah. So they say, good

402
00:25:39,030 --> 00:25:43,200
enough, but they'll probably be
bad, like next year or within

403
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,030
six months, but I'm just
impressed.

404
00:25:45,060 --> 00:25:47,310
Adam Curry: I'm impressed with
the French farmer that impressed

405
00:25:47,310 --> 00:25:49,950
with the Dutch farmers and the
Germans. I'm just impressed with

406
00:25:49,950 --> 00:25:52,260
it. Because we don't have
anything like that. That

407
00:25:52,260 --> 00:25:55,680
Dave Jones: happens now. We did
we put on we don't protest. We

408
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,110
Adam Curry: put on pink pussy
hats and walk around. Yeah,

409
00:25:58,110 --> 00:25:58,320
that's

410
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,400
Benjamin Bellamy: all cool. You
probably have to be really

411
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,540
careful when you're watching the
news, because it's like, a huge

412
00:26:06,540 --> 00:26:07,470
magnifier.

413
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:14,850
Adam Curry: No, no, you're
kidding. No way, Benjamin. You

414
00:26:14,850 --> 00:26:16,710
mean the news is full

415
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:21,120
Benjamin Bellamy: of crap. It
isn't. But like the country

416
00:26:21,180 --> 00:26:28,440
weren't just like a crap and the
fire and it was very localized.

417
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,830
Adam Curry: Yeah. Gotcha. crap
and fire crap and fire. Great

418
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:32,820
show title. Yes.

419
00:26:33,660 --> 00:26:34,350
Dave Jones: Right off the bat.

420
00:26:36,090 --> 00:26:38,640
Adam Curry: Brother, we are so
happy that you that you're back

421
00:26:39,210 --> 00:26:42,120
in the boardroom? Because I
mean, you wanted to give us an

422
00:26:42,150 --> 00:26:44,850
update on Casta pod because it's
been How long has it been? It's

423
00:26:44,850 --> 00:26:47,820
been over a year and a half.
Maybe since we last had you on?

424
00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:51,840
Benjamin Bellamy: I think it's
way more it's I think it's two

425
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,960
years. Yeah, I was here on
episode 29.

426
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:57,450
Adam Curry: Wow. Yeah. So well.
So

427
00:26:57,630 --> 00:27:00,690
Dave Jones: that's very nervous
about, tell us about Cassiopeia.

428
00:27:00,690 --> 00:27:03,750
But I also want to tell I want
you to explain the cast pod

429
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:04,740
index as well.

430
00:27:06,270 --> 00:27:10,080
Benjamin Bellamy: Oh, sure.
Well, castor pod, as you know,

431
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,640
is our open source hosting
platform, which we've been

432
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,830
developing for three years now.
We started exactly when you guys

433
00:27:19,830 --> 00:27:24,600
started podcasting. 2.0. So,
yeah, that's over three years

434
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:31,620
now. And we've moving forward,
we have a huge roadmap, and

435
00:27:31,650 --> 00:27:41,700
many, many things coming this
year. Think we have new new

436
00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:51,930
tags, we just added the medium
one with our contributors. We

437
00:27:51,930 --> 00:27:57,120
have 51 contributors that are
working on Casta bird now,

438
00:27:57,630 --> 00:28:01,710
mainly for other translations,
but also on some book

439
00:28:01,710 --> 00:28:04,470
corrections and features. Now,

440
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,010
Adam Curry: just so not
everybody knows we have cast a

441
00:28:08,010 --> 00:28:12,810
pod.org, which is the Open
Source Self, you can self host

442
00:28:12,810 --> 00:28:15,900
it. And then I think you have
cast a pod.com, which includes

443
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:19,530
hosting for a small fee. Is that
still in place? Yeah,

444
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,710
Benjamin Bellamy: that's
correct. We just like copied

445
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:26,970
what WordPress is doing. We
right, we'd like to, we like to

446
00:28:26,970 --> 00:28:32,400
think that we are the WordPress
for our podcast. In a sense that

447
00:28:32,610 --> 00:28:37,410
we use the same technology,
which is PHP, MySQL. If you want

448
00:28:37,410 --> 00:28:42,660
to self host on a very cheap
shared hosting, you can unzip a

449
00:28:42,660 --> 00:28:46,470
zip file, and then run the
wizard, and you're ready to go

450
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:52,260
and podcasts. And we also have
two websites the.org casper.org,

451
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:59,130
where you can download the whole
server, and on kasturba.com

452
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:04,590
within like one minutes. You
subscribe, you enter your credit

453
00:29:04,590 --> 00:29:09,450
card, and you're ready to go.
And you can use your own domain

454
00:29:09,450 --> 00:29:15,030
name and like it's your home,
your podcasts, right and you own

455
00:29:15,060 --> 00:29:19,590
your data, your audience,
everything belongs to you. And

456
00:29:19,620 --> 00:29:21,750
Adam Curry: can you give us an
idea of how many people are

457
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:25,170
using self hosted versus hosted?
And I just have no you've been

458
00:29:25,170 --> 00:29:27,210
around. You've been doing this
for a while. So I'm just curious

459
00:29:27,210 --> 00:29:29,070
how the how the uptake has been.

460
00:29:32,460 --> 00:29:35,880
Benjamin Bellamy: I cannot give
you the exact numbers for a very

461
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:42,300
simple reason. We don't have
any. Anything within Cassiopeia

462
00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:45,330
that tells you when someone
installs it, we don't know so

463
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:52,050
and they are quite a bunch of
podcasts that are using customer

464
00:29:52,050 --> 00:29:57,000
pod self hosted and that are not
registered on the podcast index.

465
00:29:57,030 --> 00:30:01,110
Oh, really. I've yet found some
of them. And quite often,

466
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:07,860
usually, I'm aware of them when
John Spurlock says, Oh, this is

467
00:30:08,250 --> 00:30:12,570
something that's Cassiopeia
podcasts, but she's trying to

468
00:30:12,570 --> 00:30:18,030
use a p3. But since it's not in
the podcast index, I cannot

469
00:30:18,030 --> 00:30:19,680
process it. Ah,

470
00:30:19,770 --> 00:30:24,000
Adam Curry: is this is this on
purpose is it just don't want to

471
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,000
be in the index, or it's not
known to them.

472
00:30:28,050 --> 00:30:32,130
Benjamin Bellamy: I think we can
call that a bug. Basically, what

473
00:30:32,130 --> 00:30:38,520
we should be doing is, when the
wizard ends, the castor pod

474
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:44,070
installation system, we should
add a button do you wish to

475
00:30:44,910 --> 00:30:50,970
register to podcast index? And
my guess is that most most

476
00:30:50,970 --> 00:30:54,240
podcasts that are not in the
podcast index, it's just because

477
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,330
they don't know what that
exists. Okay, we

478
00:30:57,330 --> 00:30:59,790
Dave Jones: probably got a real,
I got a real easy way for you to

479
00:30:59,790 --> 00:31:04,200
do that, then you can, you can
just send positing the as you

480
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:10,560
send a pod pay we have, we have
the our web sub hub also acts

481
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:16,230
acts as a pod ping generator. So
you can call pub dot podcast

482
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:20,130
index.org Pub notify, and then
just send the pod paying in his

483
00:31:20,130 --> 00:31:23,610
No, there's no authentication
keys required. If you just send

484
00:31:23,610 --> 00:31:28,020
this in that as soon as somebody
rolls in new, a new cast a pod

485
00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:30,240
instance, then we'll pick the
feed up and everybody else

486
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,190
should see it too. Yeah,

487
00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:34,860
Benjamin Bellamy: then we know
that there are many, many ways

488
00:31:34,860 --> 00:31:40,080
of doing that. It's just
something that it we have a huge

489
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:45,630
pile of, of tasks are on our to
do list. And that's something

490
00:31:45,630 --> 00:31:49,410
that we should have done years
ago, and we still haven't

491
00:31:49,620 --> 00:31:54,330
Adam Curry: we know how this
works. Benjamin, no worries. No

492
00:31:54,330 --> 00:31:57,480
worries, Dave and I still have
to go on vacation together. Not

493
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:58,890
this at the bottom of the stack.

494
00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:04,860
Dave Jones: We're very lucky
what but yeah, exactly. Exactly.

495
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,060
What if so. So this is an
interesting, I don't want to

496
00:32:09,060 --> 00:32:11,160
derail you, but I just I'm
trying to make a mental note to

497
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,810
come back to this because Mitch,
Mitch from pod verse is also

498
00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:20,820
trying to transition more into
being a maintainer and building

499
00:32:20,820 --> 00:32:24,210
up a community around pod verse
that will contribute open source

500
00:32:24,210 --> 00:32:30,210
code. And it sounds like Castor
pod has is been pretty slick.

501
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,350
It's been successful to a degree
with getting people to be tasked

502
00:32:34,350 --> 00:32:36,870
with building a code
contribution community.

503
00:32:39,690 --> 00:32:43,170
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, but
it's, we're not there yet. There

504
00:32:43,170 --> 00:32:46,440
are still work to do. Am I
encouraging anyone who wants to

505
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:52,860
get involved to to get on our
GitLab server on the code that

506
00:32:52,860 --> 00:33:00,210
casper.org And there could the
number of issues we have on

507
00:33:00,210 --> 00:33:07,260
GitLab is so long that we could
use a hand so and just to answer

508
00:33:07,260 --> 00:33:11,340
your questions without we forget
about it. I think there are

509
00:33:11,340 --> 00:33:17,370
between 305 100 podcasts using
Castor pod right now to give you

510
00:33:17,370 --> 00:33:24,240
an idea so that's quite a lot
because like a year ago, there

511
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:30,810
were like a dozen or so so yeah,
it's like I think we have like

512
00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:39,150
plus 30% Every month but yeah,
that could be we could have like

513
00:33:39,180 --> 00:33:44,250
10 times this amount if you see
the number of of blogs using

514
00:33:44,250 --> 00:33:51,960
WordPress we're not on the same
scale here. Even if you're

515
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:58,950
looking at podcast generator
which was the the the open

516
00:33:58,950 --> 00:34:04,140
source system that I've been I
was using before we we developed

517
00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:09,030
Castor pod they are more
podcasts using podcast generator

518
00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:17,130
now. So there's still a huge
room for for growth. Are you

519
00:34:17,130 --> 00:34:21,420
Adam Curry: still still funded?
partially or entirely for the

520
00:34:21,450 --> 00:34:29,100
for the project by government
net? And yes Annelle net? Oh,

521
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:35,580
that's that NLnet is that now
European? What like is that now

522
00:34:35,580 --> 00:34:38,700
EU money and l net? Or is L net?
Where did they get their funding

523
00:34:38,700 --> 00:34:39,570
from? I forgot

524
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,510
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah. From
from EU EEA. European Union.

525
00:34:42,540 --> 00:34:49,620
Yeah. Yeah, partly still, too.
So we are still partly funded by

526
00:34:49,650 --> 00:34:56,130
NL net European Union. And
that's just a small part of our

527
00:34:56,700 --> 00:34:59,760
what it really costs in the end,
of

528
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,520
Adam Curry: course. Of course,
they should force all those all

529
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,910
those people at the EU to use
cast the pod for their podcast.

530
00:35:06,540 --> 00:35:09,960
Yeah, I don't think they do. I
know they use all kinds of

531
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,320
stuff. And I follow a lot of EU
podcast, but they're never on

532
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:14,790
cast a pod to my knowledge.

533
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,990
Benjamin Bellamy: Yes, some are
getting there. I think the one

534
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:29,370
of the problem that we have both
Yasin and me is that we're, I

535
00:35:29,370 --> 00:35:33,900
guess, not that bad developing
stuff, but we're not that good

536
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:39,750
for setting them. Even if it's
setting for free. So

537
00:35:43,469 --> 00:35:46,169
Adam Curry: when government I
find if you make it 10,000

538
00:35:46,169 --> 00:35:49,889
euros, that's when they all want
to have as you say, you want it

539
00:35:49,889 --> 00:35:52,139
the wrong way with these
government people. Yeah, they

540
00:35:52,139 --> 00:35:55,319
don't like free, they can't be
good. We need to get something

541
00:35:55,319 --> 00:35:57,629
from Boeing. That cost a lot of
money.

542
00:35:57,930 --> 00:36:00,750
Dave Jones: I like the way you
said that. We're we're not bad

543
00:36:00,930 --> 00:36:05,790
at developing things. But we're
not good at selling things. Yep,

544
00:36:05,850 --> 00:36:08,430
pretty much that pretty much no,
that that's most open source

545
00:36:08,429 --> 00:36:10,259
Adam Curry: projects best.
Right? That's right.

546
00:36:12,060 --> 00:36:15,120
Benjamin Bellamy: Let's we have
pretty good feedbacks from the

547
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:20,190
whole community. We have a local
radio networks that are using

548
00:36:20,190 --> 00:36:29,010
Castor pod now. So we're getting
there. Yeah. The future is very

549
00:36:29,010 --> 00:36:33,390
interesting. I'm very excited
about what this year will bring.

550
00:36:34,770 --> 00:36:39,570
Dave Jones: How much am many of
your, how many caster pod users

551
00:36:39,570 --> 00:36:43,890
do you have a feel are French
versus outside of France? Is

552
00:36:43,890 --> 00:36:46,140
there? What does that look like?

553
00:36:48,030 --> 00:36:50,580
Benjamin Bellamy: I think it
reflects the number of podcasts

554
00:36:50,580 --> 00:37:02,460
that they are like worldwide.
Obviously, we have another maybe

555
00:37:02,460 --> 00:37:08,010
5050 podcast French podcasts
using gastropod. So that like

556
00:37:08,010 --> 00:37:13,920
10%. But if you compare that to
the number in the podcast

557
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:21,960
indexed, I looked this morning,
they were 90,000 podcasts in

558
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:27,240
French. So I don't know if
they're Canadians or French,

559
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:36,120
Swiss, or Belgium. But so that
lets that know 107 compared to

560
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:42,240
like 2 million in English,
right, and I guess like eight

561
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:51,870
800,000 in Spanish, and maybe
300,000 in Portuguese. So the

562
00:37:51,870 --> 00:37:57,450
market, the podcasting market,
for a French language is still

563
00:37:57,450 --> 00:37:59,850
in the very, very early stages.

564
00:38:00,089 --> 00:38:03,419
Adam Curry: i i We were talking
about AI just a little bit ago.

565
00:38:03,959 --> 00:38:06,689
And I have a theory about this.
You know, one of the things that

566
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,439
all it comes is come around like
three times now it's like, oh,

567
00:38:10,439 --> 00:38:16,079
this company will now transcribe
your podcast into five different

568
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:19,799
languages with natural sounding
voices. And when I'm always

569
00:38:19,799 --> 00:38:23,309
surprised by is that it's never
the other way around. I don't

570
00:38:23,309 --> 00:38:26,489
hear any. And this is what my
question would be. Are there any

571
00:38:26,489 --> 00:38:30,809
companies who are saying we'll
take your French spoken podcast

572
00:38:30,809 --> 00:38:33,659
and turn it into English? That
will be part one of the

573
00:38:33,659 --> 00:38:37,349
question. And part two is, are
there actually any podcasts that

574
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:41,159
have been trans morphed into
French from English that are

575
00:38:41,189 --> 00:38:43,769
doing anything in France? I
mean, is this just total

576
00:38:43,769 --> 00:38:45,539
vaporware that no one's using
it?

577
00:38:46,410 --> 00:38:52,020
Benjamin Bellamy: Not that I
know of? And I don't know. And

578
00:38:52,050 --> 00:38:55,980
the Yeah, the podcasting market
is really, really different from

579
00:38:56,010 --> 00:39:04,770
everything else that we know
why. My guess is because it's a

580
00:39:04,770 --> 00:39:08,340
hippie stuff from the beginning.
Like the fact that

581
00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:12,149
Adam Curry: like hippie stuff,
all right, there's another show.

582
00:39:13,290 --> 00:39:18,450
Benjamin Bellamy: The fact that
it's still uses technology from

583
00:39:18,450 --> 00:39:24,360
the 90s, where you can choose
the hosting company, you can

584
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,890
choose the index, you can choose
the app for playing the podcast,

585
00:39:29,190 --> 00:39:33,090
make it really difficult for big
corporations to make money out

586
00:39:33,090 --> 00:39:38,520
of it. And so they tend not to
be interested in it, I think.

587
00:39:38,580 --> 00:39:48,660
And even if you look at the the
dynamic or do insertion markets

588
00:39:48,660 --> 00:39:53,460
for advertising, on podcasting,
it's tiny, really, really small

589
00:39:53,460 --> 00:39:57,420
compared to the radio industry.
It's really small. It's the

590
00:39:57,420 --> 00:40:00,960
beginning and eventually it's
going to grow That's for sure.

591
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:06,510
So, some, some companies are
interested in that. But it's so

592
00:40:06,510 --> 00:40:11,580
difficult because it is
distributed. And it's not like a

593
00:40:11,580 --> 00:40:15,240
closed silo as it can be on
YouTube.

594
00:40:15,749 --> 00:40:18,839
Adam Curry: It's interesting
because I was in Italy last

595
00:40:18,839 --> 00:40:25,079
year, September. And I think it
was, I think it was Spotify. But

596
00:40:25,079 --> 00:40:29,339
something had happened. And all
of a sudden, Italy was crazy

597
00:40:29,339 --> 00:40:31,979
about podcasts. And they had
never really picked it up

598
00:40:31,979 --> 00:40:38,369
before. And I don't know if it
was one certain. My my nephew

599
00:40:38,369 --> 00:40:40,979
and nieces were like, oh, yeah,
no, this this one guy, and he's

600
00:40:40,979 --> 00:40:43,949
doing a podcast and this
comedians doing a podcast, and

601
00:40:43,949 --> 00:40:47,159
somehow it just caught fire. And
all of a sudden the whole

602
00:40:47,159 --> 00:40:51,539
country was all nuts about
podcasting. It seems like, you

603
00:40:51,539 --> 00:40:55,649
need to have that one spark. And
then it takes off. And I don't

604
00:40:55,649 --> 00:40:58,499
and I get I think it might have
been Spotify that that that did

605
00:40:58,499 --> 00:41:03,179
that. And they did something
good. On me, what are the

606
00:41:03,179 --> 00:41:05,609
podcasts? And so there's so few
are there like, you know,

607
00:41:06,089 --> 00:41:09,629
mainstream entertainers doing
podcasts? You mean

608
00:41:09,630 --> 00:41:13,110
Benjamin Bellamy: in France?
Yeah. Basically, the whole

609
00:41:13,110 --> 00:41:26,820
industry here is if it is.
organized and by the radio

610
00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:37,620
networks, right. I was looking
at some numbers. In France 67%

611
00:41:37,650 --> 00:41:43,920
of every audio consumption is
done on the radio networks. And

612
00:41:43,950 --> 00:41:51,420
only 10% is podcasts. Right. And
in this 10 percents, three is

613
00:41:51,420 --> 00:41:57,030
for indie podcast, and seven is
for the radio podcasts. Gotcha.

614
00:41:57,030 --> 00:42:00,000
So the radio industry is still
very, very strong.

615
00:42:01,020 --> 00:42:03,780
Dave Jones: But you trust those
numbers, you trust those

616
00:42:03,780 --> 00:42:06,330
numbers? Where that where's the
measurement for that coming

617
00:42:06,330 --> 00:42:06,750
from?

618
00:42:07,410 --> 00:42:10,260
Benjamin Bellamy: Even if you
don't trust them? The difference

619
00:42:10,260 --> 00:42:15,870
is so so big that okay, yeah, at
some points. And yeah, you can

620
00:42:15,870 --> 00:42:22,440
see that people are still
listening. I think 60% of French

621
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:27,090
people are listening to the
radio, like every day. So we

622
00:42:27,090 --> 00:42:31,260
have a very strong radio culture
here.

623
00:42:32,580 --> 00:42:35,310
Dave Jones: It's funny to me how
that how that works in different

624
00:42:35,460 --> 00:42:39,330
in different in different
cultures, like I had heard

625
00:42:39,330 --> 00:42:45,690
somebody telling me as maybe a
year ago that, like, Japan has a

626
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,050
really intense fax machine
culture, if you go to Japan,

627
00:42:49,050 --> 00:42:52,950
it's just they fax everything.
This is I mean, still to today.

628
00:42:52,980 --> 00:42:55,440
I mean, this is not some, this
is not we're not talking about

629
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,100
two decades ago, like the right
now they, it's just become part

630
00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:02,970
of their culture. And it's like,
almost to an identity level.

631
00:43:03,330 --> 00:43:07,380
There's some things we we just
you go across the border, and

632
00:43:07,380 --> 00:43:12,150
it's like a whole different set
of priorities people have about

633
00:43:12,150 --> 00:43:15,900
how they consume different
media, how they interact with

634
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:20,400
with with other people. That's
pretty, that's pretty

635
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,730
interesting, because from the
outside looking in, especially

636
00:43:23,730 --> 00:43:29,490
looking at the index data,
French podcast, seems podcasting

637
00:43:29,490 --> 00:43:36,810
in France, to me from the
outside seems to be very, like,

638
00:43:37,710 --> 00:43:43,590
insular, I guess, more. And
maybe that's not this. This is

639
00:43:43,620 --> 00:43:46,740
maybe a negative connotation.
What I mean is like, it seems

640
00:43:46,740 --> 00:43:51,990
sort of like they like Radio
France doesn't want their stuff.

641
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:58,620
distributed in this feels like
there's a lot of it's local

642
00:43:58,620 --> 00:44:01,680
first, maybe that's the best way
to describe it. Like we yeah,

643
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,280
probably, like France, like
French podcasts or for our for

644
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,880
the French. They're really not
for anybody else first. Yeah,

645
00:44:08,879 --> 00:44:13,349
Benjamin Bellamy: we don't get
even many Canadian podcasts like

646
00:44:13,349 --> 00:44:16,349
French speaking Canadian
podcasts. We don't get that many

647
00:44:16,349 --> 00:44:20,159
of them. So yeah, you're
probably right. And the thing

648
00:44:20,159 --> 00:44:25,679
is, if you watch Netflix in
France, you'll get many, many US

649
00:44:25,949 --> 00:44:29,459
programs and from everywhere,
but

650
00:44:29,700 --> 00:44:31,830
Adam Curry: it's called
democracy bad. That's how we

651
00:44:31,830 --> 00:44:32,730
spread democracy.

652
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,230
Benjamin Bellamy: The main
reason for that is probably the

653
00:44:37,230 --> 00:44:45,120
closed caption. So this is
probably where the transcript

654
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:55,560
tag will change everything that
Apple is going to use it. Maybe

655
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,990
that will change many things.

656
00:44:58,319 --> 00:45:01,139
Adam Curry: Is there a need Oh,
this is interest. Sing. Now I

657
00:45:01,139 --> 00:45:04,469
grew up in the Netherlands where
I believe people learned English

658
00:45:04,469 --> 00:45:11,129
by watching American and am
British but American television

659
00:45:11,129 --> 00:45:14,459
shows with subtitles. In fact,
I'm really good at watching

660
00:45:14,459 --> 00:45:18,449
anything with subtitles, because
that's just how we roll. And

661
00:45:18,479 --> 00:45:21,779
this is how my daughter's
learned English. Yes. So is it?

662
00:45:22,139 --> 00:45:27,179
Should we be creating? or should
there be services that create

663
00:45:27,179 --> 00:45:29,789
translations of transcripts?

664
00:45:30,540 --> 00:45:32,400
Benjamin Bellamy: Not
necessarily. Because if you have

665
00:45:32,970 --> 00:45:38,970
an English spoken podcast with
English subtitles, usually is

666
00:45:38,970 --> 00:45:43,470
going to be enough. You can
maybe you need the French

667
00:45:43,470 --> 00:45:49,470
transcription and translated if
you're very young, but the you

668
00:45:49,470 --> 00:45:52,560
know, the problem with the
American accent is that we don't

669
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,290
understand anything that you say
really, especially if you're if

670
00:45:55,290 --> 00:45:56,490
you're from Texas.

671
00:45:57,330 --> 00:45:59,580
Adam Curry: Okay. Okay, so keep
going.

672
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:02,610
Dave Jones: So when I say that I
sat down yesterday and played

673
00:46:02,610 --> 00:46:07,530
the guitar across the same way
to

674
00:46:09,300 --> 00:46:12,480
Benjamin Bellamy: but the thing
is, we are there are very, very

675
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:18,000
few person listening to American
podcast in France, because it's

676
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:24,150
really hard to understand. The
underside lists. You already

677
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:27,810
are, you took about a sparkle
and I think that serial was the

678
00:46:27,810 --> 00:46:30,570
one you guys had in the US.

679
00:46:31,350 --> 00:46:33,990
Adam Curry: Yeah, that region,
that region in reignited

680
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:37,290
podcasting in 2015, or
something. 2016. Yeah,

681
00:46:37,890 --> 00:46:42,240
Benjamin Bellamy: 14, I guess.
But yeah. And I listened to that

682
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:45,270
show, and I really loved it. But
I have to admit, like, there was

683
00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:48,570
hard to follow on some, yeah,
some details. And the thing is,

684
00:46:48,570 --> 00:46:54,960
like, I can do the dishes, or
Iran or stuff like that, but I

685
00:46:54,960 --> 00:47:00,690
need, like 90% of my brain, if I
want to listen to a podcast

686
00:47:00,690 --> 00:47:03,540
that's in English, yeah. And I
cannot understand anything else.

687
00:47:03,570 --> 00:47:06,450
Whereas if it's in French, I can
do it. But

688
00:47:06,449 --> 00:47:08,669
Adam Curry: I gotta tell you, I
mean, I would really love to see

689
00:47:08,669 --> 00:47:11,699
French independent podcasts, I
saw this happen in the

690
00:47:11,699 --> 00:47:14,969
Netherlands, it kind of happened
over the past four or five

691
00:47:14,969 --> 00:47:18,779
years. A few guys, you know,
really were pushing it hard. And

692
00:47:18,779 --> 00:47:21,329
then they, and then just
something happened. And he got a

693
00:47:21,329 --> 00:47:23,609
couple of shows. And then all
the kids all sudden, were

694
00:47:23,609 --> 00:47:28,379
listening to podcasts. I mean,
they can happen. It just had

695
00:47:28,379 --> 00:47:31,259
just maybe it's a cultural
thing. But I think it can happen

696
00:47:31,259 --> 00:47:33,749
in every country. And it just
seems like it will be so

697
00:47:33,749 --> 00:47:36,029
enriching for the culture in

698
00:47:37,860 --> 00:47:40,020
Benjamin Bellamy: it, because
there are some really, really

699
00:47:40,020 --> 00:47:44,580
good podcasts in France. The
thing is, you need the audience

700
00:47:44,580 --> 00:47:49,140
to meet the podcast. And that's
something that's not automatic.

701
00:47:50,550 --> 00:47:55,530
And you need probably people to
move from the radio to the

702
00:47:55,530 --> 00:48:00,810
podcast, and there's a
discoverability issue. That's

703
00:48:00,930 --> 00:48:05,070
the program that everyone says,
If I'm a listener, where do

704
00:48:05,100 --> 00:48:08,910
where do I get podcasts? How do
I find them? And if you're a

705
00:48:08,910 --> 00:48:13,380
podcaster, how do I get
discovered, right? And again,

706
00:48:13,530 --> 00:48:17,040
transcription, from my point of
view will change everything.

707
00:48:17,100 --> 00:48:19,890
Adam Curry: Okay? Because tell
us now that Apple is doing that

708
00:48:19,890 --> 00:48:20,460
tell us.

709
00:48:21,659 --> 00:48:25,889
Benjamin Bellamy: The thing is,
if you look at the podcasting

710
00:48:25,919 --> 00:48:30,509
ecosystem now, in terms of SEO,
we are exactly at the point

711
00:48:30,509 --> 00:48:34,859
where we were for the web in
1995.

712
00:48:35,100 --> 00:48:37,050
Adam Curry: You're still using
Internet Explorer.

713
00:48:38,219 --> 00:48:43,139
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, or
Netscape or mosaic how I was

714
00:48:43,139 --> 00:48:45,269
using links, links. Yeah, there

715
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:48,090
Adam Curry: you go. That's a
real man uses links. Absolutely.

716
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,210
Dave Jones: All the way down to
the blood. Yeah,

717
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:53,880
Adam Curry: it does images. Now,
you know, links is pretty has

718
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,230
developed over time.

719
00:48:56,699 --> 00:49:01,499
Benjamin Bellamy: And back then,
we were using Yahoo, and

720
00:49:01,559 --> 00:49:07,319
AltaVista and these search
engine, they only looked at the

721
00:49:07,319 --> 00:49:14,759
title and maybe some meta
metadata. And that sets and this

722
00:49:14,759 --> 00:49:19,829
is what podcasting is right now.
Looking for podcasts in Apple

723
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:23,279
podcasts is impossible. If
you're looking for something,

724
00:49:23,579 --> 00:49:27,089
the keyword needs to be in the
title, otherwise, you're 100%

725
00:49:27,089 --> 00:49:33,359
sure that you won't find it.
Right. So we are still just

726
00:49:33,509 --> 00:49:38,789
looking searching within the
title and some metadata. If you

727
00:49:38,789 --> 00:49:42,779
are lucky. Not that we are
getting the transcription and my

728
00:49:42,779 --> 00:49:49,109
guess is that Apple podcasts
pushing transcription will make

729
00:49:49,139 --> 00:49:53,789
everyone using it. Because so
far it's been three years since

730
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,479
like cassava has been using
transcription and pushing them.

731
00:49:57,809 --> 00:50:02,519
But we know that that's not
enough. And you heard the guys

732
00:50:02,519 --> 00:50:05,609
that eclipsing three weeks ago
when they say yeah, it's useless

733
00:50:05,609 --> 00:50:09,959
because no one is using it.
Yeah, my guess is that yeah,

734
00:50:09,989 --> 00:50:12,149
probably they're looking at it
right now.

735
00:50:13,530 --> 00:50:16,290
Adam Curry: Yeah. Because Apple,
because Apple added it. Now

736
00:50:16,290 --> 00:50:17,670
they're looking at it, of
course.

737
00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:21,210
Benjamin Bellamy: So I'm using
one of our snowball effects Now,

738
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:26,550
regarding the translation, the
transcription, sorry. And, and

739
00:50:26,580 --> 00:50:31,350
we meaning that now, it will be
possible to index everything and

740
00:50:31,350 --> 00:50:35,100
to index the content and to know
exactly what it's talking about.

741
00:50:35,130 --> 00:50:40,230
And the discoverability will
change radically, radically.

742
00:50:41,639 --> 00:50:46,679
Dave Jones: So it how many. So
when it comes to OP three, how

743
00:50:46,679 --> 00:50:50,069
many? Are there any French
podcasts that you have no, of

744
00:50:50,069 --> 00:50:52,349
using op three, because I would
love to see what the

745
00:50:52,349 --> 00:50:56,909
consumption? I would love to see
what the app app breakdown is.

746
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:03,059
And see what what apps people
are using in France to listen to

747
00:51:03,089 --> 00:51:04,199
French podcasts?

748
00:51:05,460 --> 00:51:08,340
Benjamin Bellamy: Oh, yeah,
that's very easy. I don't have

749
00:51:08,910 --> 00:51:14,880
the number is going to be app
already. But actually, no, there

750
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:20,130
is no, there is no rule. It
really depends on the podcast.

751
00:51:20,370 --> 00:51:23,760
It depends also on the country.
But it's Yeah, depends on the

752
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:28,140
podcast, like a podcast talking
about open source. And there are

753
00:51:28,140 --> 00:51:34,020
many of these using castable.
Use usually, Apple and Spotify

754
00:51:34,050 --> 00:51:40,800
are not the first ones. So it
depends on the audience. You can

755
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:41,910
have surprises

756
00:51:41,939 --> 00:51:45,869
Adam Curry: everywhere. No, I
agree with that. I, I love the

757
00:51:46,109 --> 00:51:50,399
individual stats that op three
delivers. I see I see my stats,

758
00:51:50,399 --> 00:51:55,949
I see pod verse and podcast guru
up there very high, sometimes

759
00:51:55,949 --> 00:51:59,789
higher than Apple or any other
app you write it depends on

760
00:51:59,789 --> 00:52:02,759
audience. And that's by the way,
I I'm not a big fan of looking

761
00:52:02,759 --> 00:52:06,059
at, you know, who's number one
across everything. You know, to

762
00:52:06,059 --> 00:52:08,039
me, that's a senseless award
shows.

763
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,150
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, and
that's not the point at all of

764
00:52:12,450 --> 00:52:16,290
Opie three. And I know that
John's said it, he, there's

765
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:20,520
there is no top 10 on the on the
mp3, he doesn't want it good.

766
00:52:20,790 --> 00:52:24,810
Good. That's that's not the goal
for that tool. But nevertheless,

767
00:52:24,810 --> 00:52:29,460
it's interesting to see and to
get numbers on how it's used.

768
00:52:30,330 --> 00:52:35,430
But in the end, you know that if
a host says listen to my podcast

769
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:39,570
on Apple podcast and give me
stars, guess what this is where

770
00:52:39,570 --> 00:52:43,920
the user will go. If you say use
something for a new podcast

771
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:49,230
apps.com That works. In the end,
if everyone says that, in the

772
00:52:49,230 --> 00:52:53,070
end, you know that people will
switch and move to a platform

773
00:52:53,100 --> 00:52:57,300
where they can have more
features. Or

774
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,500
Dave Jones: let me push back on
that for a second, though,

775
00:53:01,500 --> 00:53:06,870
because that's that's it's sort
of it's circular, though.

776
00:53:07,590 --> 00:53:09,930
Because when somebody when
you're listening to a podcast,

777
00:53:10,380 --> 00:53:14,400
and somebody says, listen to us
on Apple podcast, you're already

778
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,740
listening to the podcasts or
you're already listening to it

779
00:53:16,740 --> 00:53:21,600
on something. So now I can see
that you would switch that could

780
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,020
cause you to switch to a
different podcast app. But how

781
00:53:25,020 --> 00:53:29,520
did they even get into that to
begin with? But how? I guess

782
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,240
what's the entry point into
being able to initially even

783
00:53:33,240 --> 00:53:36,360
hear the podcast in order to
hear somebody say I wish you

784
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:37,950
would listen to us on this other
thing?

785
00:53:41,070 --> 00:53:45,540
Benjamin Bellamy: The exact same
mechanism. Like when you used to

786
00:53:45,540 --> 00:53:49,140
go on a websites with Internet
Explorer, and they said, Yeah,

787
00:53:49,140 --> 00:53:50,490
you better use Chrome

788
00:53:50,490 --> 00:53:53,580
Adam Curry: or Firefox. Yeah.
Yep. Same. That took years. But

789
00:53:53,580 --> 00:53:55,140
it worked. Yeah,

790
00:53:55,230 --> 00:54:00,180
Benjamin Bellamy: eventually it
works. And also, you also have

791
00:54:00,180 --> 00:54:06,570
to, to know that many listeners,
they discover the podcast on the

792
00:54:06,570 --> 00:54:11,280
podcast websites, yes. And they
click play within Firefox or

793
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:17,610
Chrome or Internet Explorer,
maybe? I don't know. So that's

794
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,570
the entry. Usually that's the
entry points, because still

795
00:54:22,380 --> 00:54:26,790
going back to discoverability,
and search engines, if you

796
00:54:28,290 --> 00:54:33,600
there's that many goods search
engine for podcasting. So if you

797
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:39,660
look by you're probably searched
in Google, and Google will lead

798
00:54:39,660 --> 00:54:41,280
you to the website.

799
00:54:42,540 --> 00:54:46,230
Adam Curry: That's how I've so
no agenda. Yeah, it's been

800
00:54:46,230 --> 00:54:51,840
around a long time. But we have
we've never asked for ratings

801
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:57,150
never and we have as many five
stars as one stars on Apple. We

802
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,800
think we might have been
featured once 10 years ago. But

803
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,100
we've I mean, we've never
marketed never spent a dime on

804
00:55:05,100 --> 00:55:07,890
it. We've just asked our
listeners to do that. I think

805
00:55:07,890 --> 00:55:12,810
that's so underrated. And we ask
your listeners to to tell

806
00:55:12,810 --> 00:55:18,870
people, there's no discovery
really? Yeah, we buy now where

807
00:55:18,900 --> 00:55:26,040
we have a lot of top placement
in in search engines. But I just

808
00:55:26,100 --> 00:55:30,780
I don't know I, to me, it's
like, you want people to tell

809
00:55:30,780 --> 00:55:33,630
other people. That's the best
way, that's someone who's

810
00:55:33,630 --> 00:55:36,030
actually going to go and get it.
I'm the number of people who

811
00:55:36,030 --> 00:55:39,180
said, I was looking for news
with no agenda, I can count on

812
00:55:39,180 --> 00:55:40,050
one hand.

813
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:46,260
Dave Jones: But I was, you know,
I'm thinking that I think pod

814
00:55:46,260 --> 00:55:49,800
roll will help this a lot. It
will help bring, bring some

815
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,670
linkage between podcasting. And
I think publisher feeds, when we

816
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:56,130
get that one across the finish
line, I think those two things

817
00:55:56,130 --> 00:56:00,870
are going to help build a
structure that's crawlable, like

818
00:56:00,990 --> 00:56:04,380
in a way that we've never had
before, where there is actual

819
00:56:04,380 --> 00:56:09,870
linkage between shows, instead
of depending on instead of

820
00:56:09,870 --> 00:56:13,710
depending on Google, and these
are in or for depending on just

821
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:18,330
textual, like machine learning
or something which is really not

822
00:56:18,330 --> 00:56:22,110
going to get you to where we
want to be, we want to use what

823
00:56:22,110 --> 00:56:24,930
you want is recommended as a
recommendation engine that's

824
00:56:24,930 --> 00:56:30,270
based on pure money. That's
yeah, humans in your own sphere.

825
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,100
Like so. Because if I'm
listening to if I'm listening to

826
00:56:35,100 --> 00:56:40,740
a show, I want, I may not, I may
not want to listen to the show

827
00:56:40,740 --> 00:56:46,530
that the hosts of that show or
listening to, but at least May I

828
00:56:46,530 --> 00:56:50,040
probably want to know those
shows exists. So that can give

829
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,230
them a shot. They can try it
out. It

830
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:53,940
Adam Curry: wasn't a
recommendation, a big push for

831
00:56:53,940 --> 00:56:54,570
you, Ben.

832
00:56:55,199 --> 00:56:58,919
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah. It's
something that I wrote like,

833
00:56:58,979 --> 00:57:04,229
three years ago, almost. Yeah, I
remember. Yeah. And if you're,

834
00:57:05,009 --> 00:57:11,729
if you look back at my example,
about SEO, there was a radical

835
00:57:11,729 --> 00:57:17,399
change in SEO when Google
started working and indexed the

836
00:57:17,399 --> 00:57:21,299
whole pages and all the
contents. So that's one key

837
00:57:21,299 --> 00:57:25,049
feature that we need. And my
guess is that that will have

838
00:57:25,049 --> 00:57:29,369
that with the transcriptions.
The other part for Google was

839
00:57:29,369 --> 00:57:33,509
the PageRank. If you remember,
it's impossible to see it, but

840
00:57:33,509 --> 00:57:40,229
it still exists, the page rank.
So like a rates be between zero

841
00:57:40,229 --> 00:57:47,009
and 10, I guess, that allows to
sort the results for the engine

842
00:57:47,009 --> 00:57:51,839
regarding the query that you
entered. And it was calculated

843
00:57:51,869 --> 00:57:56,429
with the links from one page to
another and the more inbound

844
00:57:56,429 --> 00:58:00,989
links you have, the better your
page rank is. And that's also

845
00:58:00,989 --> 00:58:05,399
something that we probably need
on the on the podcasts and the

846
00:58:05,399 --> 00:58:10,049
pod roll. can help for that,
because you can link from one

847
00:58:10,049 --> 00:58:13,589
podcast to another. Because if
you take a step back, that's

848
00:58:13,619 --> 00:58:19,019
something really weird that's
since all these years, there is

849
00:58:19,019 --> 00:58:25,229
no link between podcasts, no
connection at all. We build the

850
00:58:25,229 --> 00:58:32,969
internet on the hyperlinks, but
we didn't put any of them for

851
00:58:32,969 --> 00:58:39,989
the podcasting. So patrol is
about that. The recommendation

852
00:58:40,259 --> 00:58:45,209
tag that I wrote a specification
for so I guess it was three

853
00:58:45,209 --> 00:58:52,619
years ago, was clearly to to
enable that to say this podcast

854
00:58:52,649 --> 00:58:56,759
was based on another one that
talks about the same subject, or

855
00:58:58,469 --> 00:59:04,259
is I recommend this other one or
so that you can have links and

856
00:59:04,259 --> 00:59:09,119
have like a graph of all the
podcasts. Right? I think the

857
00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:14,249
recommendation, recommendation
tag didn't work eventually

858
00:59:14,249 --> 00:59:21,179
because it was too complex. So
probably at some points. I won't

859
00:59:21,179 --> 00:59:25,949
give up. But it probably needs
to be rewritten from scratch.

860
00:59:26,009 --> 00:59:26,249
Well, the

861
00:59:26,249 --> 00:59:28,739
Adam Curry: thing was the thing
with POD roll, which I think is

862
00:59:28,949 --> 00:59:33,719
a start of what of what we're
talking about here is everyone's

863
00:59:33,719 --> 00:59:37,259
busy, but I'm just looking at
the at the Apps page. I think

864
00:59:37,259 --> 00:59:42,149
the only app that supports it is
while true fans and pod friend

865
00:59:42,659 --> 00:59:45,599
and no other app seems to be
supporting it, which is a shame

866
00:59:45,599 --> 00:59:49,919
because it's it's it's so it's
such an obvious good feature.

867
00:59:49,919 --> 00:59:56,039
And we've seen the success of a
blog role and and as just as you

868
00:59:56,039 --> 00:59:58,529
said, you can start to build
these these links and these

869
00:59:58,529 --> 01:00:01,109
connections. Maybe the that'll
come in when we do the

870
01:00:01,109 --> 01:00:06,749
publisher, the publisher tag,
that. I mean, it ultimately is

871
01:00:06,749 --> 01:00:10,169
just a matter of what, what the
app developers have time for and

872
01:00:10,169 --> 01:00:12,989
what they feel like
implementing. So we have no, we

873
01:00:12,989 --> 01:00:14,189
have no control.

874
01:00:14,850 --> 01:00:17,130
Dave Jones: It seems like
something new. as an app

875
01:00:17,130 --> 01:00:20,190
developer, it would not be too
complex. But when you finish,

876
01:00:20,850 --> 01:00:24,690
when you finish an episode, you
know, or you are alongside an

877
01:00:24,690 --> 01:00:27,510
episode, there's somewhere
visually you can indicate, well,

878
01:00:27,510 --> 01:00:29,970
here's here's some other
podcasts that this show

879
01:00:29,970 --> 01:00:32,880
recommends. To me, because the
linkage and everything is

880
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:37,170
pretty, it's there. It's really
straightforward. And I think,

881
01:00:38,070 --> 01:00:40,770
you know, I just doesn't seem
like a, it doesn't seem like a

882
01:00:40,770 --> 01:00:46,950
big lift. That to do that is
like, Well, does. Wait does cast

883
01:00:46,950 --> 01:00:53,850
a pod? Do y'all do pod roll yet?
Ben? No, no. Okay. Any plans on

884
01:00:53,850 --> 01:00:54,090
that?

885
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:01,170
Benjamin Bellamy: It's on the
roadmap, but on top of exactly

886
01:01:01,230 --> 01:01:01,680
in

887
01:01:01,679 --> 01:01:04,739
Dave Jones: the list, right? In
the list. Yeah, I guess you.

888
01:01:06,089 --> 01:01:10,919
What can we talk about? Wait,
let me let me take a detour

889
01:01:10,919 --> 01:01:13,799
here. I want to talk about
social a little bit because one

890
01:01:13,799 --> 01:01:17,159
of the biggest things about cast
apod in this has been from the

891
01:01:17,159 --> 01:01:23,729
very beginning. And I will cop
to this that I early on and one

892
01:01:23,729 --> 01:01:28,559
of the developer roundtables
that that we had, you, you and

893
01:01:28,559 --> 01:01:34,259
your scene got on to the zoom.
And we're saying that podcasting

894
01:01:34,289 --> 01:01:39,239
really did benefit from having a
deeper integration with activity

895
01:01:39,239 --> 01:01:43,109
pub. And I did not understand
activity pub enough at the time

896
01:01:43,109 --> 01:01:47,939
to see to see the power of what
you were talking about. But I've

897
01:01:47,939 --> 01:01:51,869
totally, I've totally changed on
that. I totally understand what

898
01:01:51,899 --> 01:01:57,869
you were saying now. And I think
activity pub, and RSS. I think

899
01:01:57,869 --> 01:02:04,109
they're just perfect bedfellows.
And I think so cast apod has

900
01:02:04,109 --> 01:02:10,199
been from the beginning. And
activity pub centric experience.

901
01:02:10,439 --> 01:02:15,569
I think it's basically designed
around activity pub as a first

902
01:02:15,569 --> 01:02:20,759
class citizen. And what I'm
trying to do now after I wrote

903
01:02:20,759 --> 01:02:25,079
the activity pub, the index
activity pub bridge, what I've

904
01:02:25,079 --> 01:02:31,529
been trying to do is figure out
a way to link a podcast owner to

905
01:02:31,529 --> 01:02:37,049
an activity pub identity. So
that you could say, Okay, this

906
01:02:37,079 --> 01:02:44,609
podcast, which now has a has an
actor on the fediverse. This

907
01:02:44,759 --> 01:02:49,049
other actor is the owner of this
podcast, so that so that that

908
01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:54,359
owners actor object gets a lot
of get some preferential

909
01:02:54,359 --> 01:03:01,589
treatment, I guess, and becomes
important as a link to the, to

910
01:03:01,589 --> 01:03:06,749
the podcast. And so we've thrown
around a bunch of ideas. And

911
01:03:06,869 --> 01:03:09,599
when I was with Nate, like
Nathan gathright came up with

912
01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:14,879
some ideas, and he, you know, we
could say, well, let's just goes

913
01:03:14,879 --> 01:03:17,939
back to your proposal, when you
first embroiled in social

914
01:03:17,939 --> 01:03:23,129
interact, you had a separate tag
for social sign up, and then a

915
01:03:23,129 --> 01:03:28,859
tag just called social. And but
then Nathan said, you know, and

916
01:03:28,859 --> 01:03:31,259
when we could go back to that,
we could say, Okay, well,

917
01:03:31,259 --> 01:03:35,489
here's, here's a podcast, and we
define a tag where you can

918
01:03:35,489 --> 01:03:40,259
explicitly say, the owner of
this podcast, is this activity

919
01:03:40,259 --> 01:03:46,529
pub handle. But you could also
say, Well, let's look in the

920
01:03:46,529 --> 01:03:50,939
person tag. And we could add an
attribute there. Or we could do

921
01:03:50,939 --> 01:03:57,149
a web finger lookup on the URL
that's in the person tag, and

922
01:03:57,149 --> 01:04:01,079
try to discover an activity pub
object from that. Do you have

923
01:04:01,079 --> 01:04:04,859
any ideas around what you think
makes the most sense?

924
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,500
Benjamin Bellamy: Well, I think
you, you need to keep that as

925
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:14,790
simple as possible. I'm not very
comfortable with the fact that

926
01:04:14,790 --> 01:04:19,770
you have many actors, because
you don't know how this will

927
01:04:19,770 --> 01:04:25,050
behave on the other platform on
the fediverse. And we have many

928
01:04:25,050 --> 01:04:29,250
feedbacks from users saying,
Well, I'm a bit lost because I

929
01:04:29,250 --> 01:04:34,020
have, I have an account on the
fediverse forum. For Mastodon, I

930
01:04:34,020 --> 01:04:38,640
have one for pixel fed, and I
have one for a custom bird and I

931
01:04:38,850 --> 01:04:43,170
wish I had only one of them to
group them or so I think it's

932
01:04:43,260 --> 01:04:49,800
the same idea of I need like a
master one or but the thing is,

933
01:04:50,970 --> 01:04:56,880
I like to have separate things
like my podcast is exists by

934
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:02,010
itself. It's a thing on the
fediverse and If I have me as a

935
01:05:02,010 --> 01:05:06,540
user or as a podcaster, and
other accounts on Mastodon, I

936
01:05:06,540 --> 01:05:11,910
think that's great. And the good
thing is that on the favors, all

937
01:05:11,910 --> 01:05:17,070
these actors can talk to each
other and they can share and

938
01:05:17,070 --> 01:05:23,280
like and comments, and talk
together. But if you take a step

939
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:27,210
back and think of what it was
before the fediverse, well, you

940
01:05:27,210 --> 01:05:30,660
had an email address, and you
had a Facebook account and a

941
01:05:30,660 --> 01:05:35,220
Twitter account and a SoundCloud
account exactly the same. The

942
01:05:35,220 --> 01:05:38,700
big difference is that all these
accounts could not talk

943
01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:42,900
together, thanks to the
fediverse, they can talk

944
01:05:42,900 --> 01:05:49,320
together. So you still have to,
to have an accounts for a

945
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:55,590
specific task of road that you
want to do. And I think that's

946
01:05:55,590 --> 01:06:01,110
good that you, you need to have
separate interfaces or stuff,

947
01:06:01,140 --> 01:06:05,310
because it's not the same role.
But in the end, since they can

948
01:06:05,310 --> 01:06:10,980
talk together, well, that's
good. And probably you you can

949
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:16,830
use, like, something that we
don't have in Casper, that we

950
01:06:16,830 --> 01:06:25,380
have to add it in any future
that has mustard on, you can you

951
01:06:25,380 --> 01:06:32,640
can say a who, which website
owns this accounts. So that's,

952
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:40,200
in the end, you'll be able to
proceed on your accounts. You

953
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:41,760
see what I mean? Yeah,

954
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:45,060
Dave Jones: cuz what I could see
is like that right now, the

955
01:06:45,060 --> 01:06:49,770
bridge, you can follow a
podcast, as an as an actor, you

956
01:06:49,770 --> 01:06:52,980
can follow a podcast on the
fediverse through the podcast,

957
01:06:52,980 --> 01:07:00,630
index bridge. But if that was a
cast a pod podcast, then what I

958
01:07:00,630 --> 01:07:05,850
would want to do probably is
forward those requests

959
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:10,890
basically, treat that as as if
the account had moved from the

960
01:07:10,890 --> 01:07:14,040
bridge to the to cast upon
itself,

961
01:07:14,310 --> 01:07:17,310
Benjamin Bellamy: which through
that hassle, I think that's too

962
01:07:17,310 --> 01:07:20,190
complex. Where you're going to
draw, you

963
01:07:20,190 --> 01:07:22,860
Dave Jones: wouldn't, you
wouldn't want to redirect them

964
01:07:22,860 --> 01:07:24,600
to the official cast upon
instance,

965
01:07:26,580 --> 01:07:30,240
Benjamin Bellamy: I would have
the link on my bio and say, my

966
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,220
podcast is here. Subscribe,

967
01:07:32,729 --> 01:07:35,489
Dave Jones: instead of doing it
at the activity level, yeah.

968
01:07:36,269 --> 01:07:39,419
Okay, keep it so yeah, either
way, either way. I just want

969
01:07:39,419 --> 01:07:45,809
like if you have a podcast, and
you have a cast apod so if you

970
01:07:45,809 --> 01:07:50,609
have if your podcast is on the
fediverse. But then you also

971
01:07:50,609 --> 01:07:53,099
have an account on the
fediverse. I just want to know

972
01:07:53,489 --> 01:07:57,479
that you are the one who's the
podcaster. Yeah.

973
01:07:59,159 --> 01:08:02,759
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, so
that's something that we have to

974
01:08:02,759 --> 01:08:07,229
add to gastropod. Like he's, you
know, it, we're

975
01:08:07,229 --> 01:08:09,119
Dave Jones: gonna add that how
would you do it? Like, what

976
01:08:09,119 --> 01:08:11,129
would you bow would your design
be?

977
01:08:12,210 --> 01:08:15,300
Benjamin Bellamy: Or your you
add metadata rail, you know, and

978
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:18,390
to, and that's, it's

979
01:08:18,450 --> 01:08:20,640
Adam Curry: the same set the
method? Yeah.

980
01:08:20,670 --> 01:08:24,840
Benjamin Bellamy: And you do it
both ways. So right, now we've

981
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:29,100
cast it, but there is no way to
do it either way. But that's not

982
01:08:29,310 --> 01:08:31,620
something very difficult to do.
It's just a link.

983
01:08:32,790 --> 01:08:34,830
Dave Jones: But what would it
look like in the RSS feed,

984
01:08:34,830 --> 01:08:37,530
though? So if I'm declaring my
past,

985
01:08:37,649 --> 01:08:40,829
Benjamin Bellamy: that's not
RSS. That's not in the RSS, you

986
01:08:40,829 --> 01:08:42,659
have to put that on the web
page.

987
01:08:43,890 --> 01:08:46,230
Dave Jones: Right now, I
understand. But with from an RSS

988
01:08:46,230 --> 01:08:50,610
standpoint, how do we know? How
do I how does the index, I want

989
01:08:50,610 --> 01:08:53,190
to wait for your index to know?
Oh,

990
01:08:53,190 --> 01:08:55,890
Benjamin Bellamy: you can add
the link in the RSS the same,

991
01:08:55,890 --> 01:08:59,940
you would add it in the HTML
page? You just have. You need

992
01:08:59,940 --> 01:09:05,730
the app, Id the player to look
into the RSS feed and, and

993
01:09:05,730 --> 01:09:08,370
verify if if everything's okay.

994
01:09:09,659 --> 01:09:13,199
Dave Jones: Yeah. So with the
the link, so that you would have

995
01:09:13,199 --> 01:09:16,229
to the link, I think link is an
atom tag, right? You'd have to

996
01:09:16,229 --> 01:09:20,639
declare the atom namespace and
bring that in with the row.

997
01:09:21,239 --> 01:09:25,139
Okay. Yeah, we've got some
options here. I mean, that's

998
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:29,279
because that's really where I
want. It's really where I want

999
01:09:29,279 --> 01:09:32,819
things to be. Because the social
interact stuff is working really

1000
01:09:32,819 --> 01:09:40,169
well. I mean, I think that tag
is great. It's just, it's, it's

1001
01:09:40,169 --> 01:09:44,729
lacking this one bit of
information, which is where are

1002
01:09:44,729 --> 01:09:48,179
the people who host the show?
Like who are they on the

1003
01:09:48,179 --> 01:09:53,099
fediverse M, we have to be able
to we have to be able to go from

1004
01:09:53,099 --> 01:09:59,009
a podcast that declares its its
its presence on the social on

1005
01:09:59,009 --> 01:10:02,189
the on the on the phone refers
to who are the people who are

1006
01:10:02,189 --> 01:10:05,369
involved? And I think, I think
that probably ends up landing in

1007
01:10:05,369 --> 01:10:06,269
some point

1008
01:10:06,270 --> 01:10:09,000
Adam Curry: that person tag.
Yeah, person tag with a rel

1009
01:10:09,030 --> 01:10:11,880
equals Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like
the easy way to do it.

1010
01:10:12,300 --> 01:10:15,810
Benjamin Bellamy: In the HTML
page, it's just like a h ref.

1011
01:10:16,050 --> 01:10:21,780
And then the link to your, your
a mastodon account rel equals

1012
01:10:21,780 --> 01:10:28,470
me. So you could put the same in
the RSS exactly the same. Yeah,

1013
01:10:28,710 --> 01:10:33,720
but the thing is, if you do
that, it's you have to, it's not

1014
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:40,200
going to be very symmetric, you
have to think of which app we'll

1015
01:10:40,230 --> 01:10:46,020
try to verify and how those
that's going to work. But that's

1016
01:10:46,020 --> 01:10:49,980
how I would do it. Just to say
I'm the owner of this.

1017
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:52,200
Adam Curry: Right? I

1018
01:10:53,850 --> 01:10:59,400
Benjamin Bellamy: am, sorry,
just together make to step backs

1019
01:10:59,430 --> 01:11:05,040
about the whole fediverse and
activity web stuff, because we

1020
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:09,270
know it's complex. And not all
users understand why we're doing

1021
01:11:09,270 --> 01:11:13,860
that. The whole point of Castile
pod when we began working on it,

1022
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:22,020
was to make sure that podcaster
stay in control, and Ghana don't

1023
01:11:22,020 --> 01:11:25,320
get ripped off of their their
value. And the value of a

1024
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:29,850
podcaster is the content and the
audience. So the fact that

1025
01:11:29,850 --> 01:11:34,080
caster pod is open source and
can be self hosted, ensures that

1026
01:11:34,170 --> 01:11:39,690
you can self host your content,
your mp3 and metadata, and no

1027
01:11:39,690 --> 01:11:46,560
one can remove that from you.
And for the audience, the

1028
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:50,970
activity pub stuff, the failover
stuff ensures that you have a

1029
01:11:50,970 --> 01:11:56,520
direct contact between your
podcast and your audience. And

1030
01:11:56,520 --> 01:12:02,940
your audience can talk, share
like and and comment your

1031
01:12:02,940 --> 01:12:09,480
episodes from your podcast with
no middleman. And there's no

1032
01:12:09,480 --> 01:12:15,420
one, no one that can cut the
connection between your podcast

1033
01:12:15,420 --> 01:12:18,750
and your audience. That's
something really important. So

1034
01:12:18,870 --> 01:12:22,410
it's not just for fun, because
we thought it's a cool feature

1035
01:12:22,410 --> 01:12:26,610
to have little stores on the
castor pod websites. And in that

1036
01:12:26,610 --> 01:12:30,960
you can see the comments on the
gastropod. website. It's it's

1037
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:35,370
really important that there's no
middleman between the content

1038
01:12:35,370 --> 01:12:38,700
and the audience. So great
content. Yeah,

1039
01:12:38,730 --> 01:12:40,260
Adam Curry: no, go ahead. I'm
sorry. Finish your question.

1040
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:40,950
Finish your thought.

1041
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:45,300
Benjamin Bellamy: When you when
you when you create a podcast on

1042
01:12:45,300 --> 01:12:52,800
Casta pod no one can steal what
you created. Neither the content

1043
01:12:52,830 --> 01:12:53,970
nor the audience.

1044
01:12:54,420 --> 01:12:56,760
Adam Curry: Day Have you been I
know you've been looking at? Oh,

1045
01:12:56,760 --> 01:13:00,930
I saw some threads about blue
sky. What am I now to understand

1046
01:13:00,930 --> 01:13:06,210
that there could be a bridge
between a podcast through the

1047
01:13:06,210 --> 01:13:10,290
index activity pub and then
ultimately bridge through to

1048
01:13:10,290 --> 01:13:10,980
blue sky?

1049
01:13:12,300 --> 01:13:14,370
Dave Jones: That the I think
people are making Blue Sky

1050
01:13:14,370 --> 01:13:16,470
bridges. Okay, I don't

1051
01:13:16,530 --> 01:13:18,210
Adam Curry: because that doesn't
mean it's real federal That to

1052
01:13:18,210 --> 01:13:21,780
me is real. fediverse when that
stuff happens was

1053
01:13:21,780 --> 01:13:23,580
Dave Jones: that I think the
blue sky stuff that I saw this

1054
01:13:23,580 --> 01:13:27,750
week was about them federating
amongst themselves Okay, all

1055
01:13:27,750 --> 01:13:29,880
right, like because you said
that you could have other

1056
01:13:29,910 --> 01:13:34,290
personal data servers within
blue sky but I don't and I know

1057
01:13:34,290 --> 01:13:37,350
there are projects going that
will that will bridge

1058
01:13:37,350 --> 01:13:40,260
Adam Curry: Federer I sure hope
so. I sure hope so because I

1059
01:13:40,260 --> 01:13:43,650
really enjoy the the nostril
BRIDGES I mean, I love following

1060
01:13:43,650 --> 01:13:49,740
people who are on nostra except
for the long numbers or whatever

1061
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:54,510
but but I it to me it's like I
see more and more of a you know,

1062
01:13:54,510 --> 01:13:58,320
the and I have my own my own
Mastodon instance. I love having

1063
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:01,110
it kind of the hub of all these
different social networks to me

1064
01:14:01,110 --> 01:14:03,540
that's that's That is the true
fediverse There.

1065
01:14:04,110 --> 01:14:07,920
Dave Jones: It feels like the
activity pub. It feels like

1066
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:11,790
activity pub fediverse is sort
of the hub that these other ones

1067
01:14:11,790 --> 01:14:14,910
are attaching detaching to Yeah,
yeah it's like it's like you

1068
01:14:14,910 --> 01:14:18,330
have you know, imagine it as
like Mickey Mouse's head with

1069
01:14:18,330 --> 01:14:21,090
the Fed or you know with
activity pub as the as the as

1070
01:14:21,090 --> 01:14:25,290
the face in the the blue sky is
one of the ears and nostrils the

1071
01:14:25,290 --> 01:14:29,730
other ear. Got it? That's what
it feels like.

1072
01:14:30,119 --> 01:14:32,399
Adam Curry: Let's let's take a
little break here gentlemen,

1073
01:14:32,399 --> 01:14:34,679
let's play a little bit of music
as we'd like to do here on the

1074
01:14:34,679 --> 01:14:37,769
so we can keep our stats up
there and that our says blue.com

1075
01:14:37,799 --> 01:14:44,189
stats page. Nice. Benjamin, I
will tell you, disappointingly,

1076
01:14:44,189 --> 01:14:47,909
I could not find or nor do I
have a way to find any French

1077
01:14:47,909 --> 01:14:53,099
songs in that are up on value
for value. I would love to have

1078
01:14:53,099 --> 01:14:57,809
some Shawn songs to play. I've
found some Japanese should have

1079
01:14:57,809 --> 01:14:58,199
told me

1080
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:01,410
Benjamin Bellamy: I would have
looked for it

1081
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:04,590
Adam Curry: I mean there's
unfortunately there's no way to

1082
01:15:04,620 --> 01:15:09,330
really find out I don't think if
a song is in the French language

1083
01:15:09,510 --> 01:15:12,630
is there I don't think there is

1084
01:15:13,020 --> 01:15:15,510
Dave Jones: but it's the
language tag in the RSS yeah so

1085
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:16,860
certainly

1086
01:15:16,860 --> 01:15:19,650
Adam Curry: now with music Well
if you find any Benjamin I love

1087
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:20,850
I love short songs

1088
01:15:21,540 --> 01:15:23,160
Benjamin Bellamy: yeah I think
it's if I have to

1089
01:15:24,540 --> 01:15:27,690
Adam Curry: that's okay thank
you that's fine take it away

1090
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:32,100
we're gonna play new artists
Emily Rana nice and short this

1091
01:15:32,100 --> 01:15:39,540
one I think people like it this
is called someone else clothes

1092
01:15:59,970 --> 01:16:04,110
Unknown: as a stranger in my
house in my house

1093
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:35,130
own house in my house someone
else someone else

1094
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:07,950
there's a stranger in my house
in my house but it's easy

1095
01:17:08,970 --> 01:17:11,460
someone else someone

1096
01:17:38,430 --> 01:17:42,780
wish I could kick you and change
the lungs

1097
01:17:55,140 --> 01:17:57,210
will make excuses

1098
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:20,910
Adam Curry: Emily Rana, someone
else I'd like this song for a

1099
01:18:20,910 --> 01:18:24,660
number of reasons one because
it's it's kind of like the

1100
01:18:24,660 --> 01:18:28,770
Ainsley Costello Poppy vibe. And
you need that these days too,

1101
01:18:28,770 --> 01:18:32,790
because I believe this is an
artist who assigned with phantom

1102
01:18:32,790 --> 01:18:36,480
power music. And I really like
what those guys are doing

1103
01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:39,780
because they're they're taking
some very simple concepts of

1104
01:18:40,110 --> 01:18:44,820
record promotion, they email me
with, you know, three, three

1105
01:18:44,820 --> 01:18:47,490
songs a week, this is what we
recommend. This is who we're

1106
01:18:47,490 --> 01:18:51,690
working with, you know, it's
called promoting, as marketing.

1107
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:55,800
I really enjoy that because that
we need that kind of stuff to

1108
01:18:55,950 --> 01:19:01,770
build to build more of a, a
system and ecosystem. And I will

1109
01:19:01,770 --> 01:19:05,550
make my plea once again to the
to the app developers, I would

1110
01:19:05,550 --> 01:19:09,300
love for you to look at your TLV
records. What you're sending, I

1111
01:19:09,300 --> 01:19:15,480
have no idea if you're boosting
for a song for many of the apps,

1112
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:20,370
and if you feel like it, adding
that reply to in your TLV record

1113
01:19:20,370 --> 01:19:25,410
is just so joyous. I love
sending SATs back to people I

1114
01:19:25,410 --> 01:19:27,810
know it's a it's another one of
those things you put on your

1115
01:19:27,810 --> 01:19:32,790
list but man and I think the
split kid only sends the artists

1116
01:19:32,790 --> 01:19:36,750
which is completely unhelpful.
But I know Stephen, Stephen P is

1117
01:19:36,750 --> 01:19:41,730
very busy. So yeah, that's my
that's my weekly plea to look at

1118
01:19:41,730 --> 01:19:44,550
your TLV records because it
really makes a difference to see

1119
01:19:44,550 --> 01:19:47,010
what and for the artists to
because they get a boost to

1120
01:19:47,010 --> 01:19:50,160
grammar they don't know. They
don't know. They just see

1121
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:52,650
booster Grand Ball. They don't
end they don't know what song it

1122
01:19:52,650 --> 01:19:53,700
was for anything.

1123
01:19:54,540 --> 01:19:56,550
Dave Jones: I'm gonna I'm
resisting the urge to get into

1124
01:19:56,550 --> 01:19:59,340
fee discussions here because I'm
afraid everybody would just draw

1125
01:19:59,340 --> 01:20:00,690
their forehead into the wall.

1126
01:20:01,169 --> 01:20:03,869
Adam Curry: I don't know I think
activity pub got me ready to

1127
01:20:03,869 --> 01:20:05,429
shoot myself. But you know, a
few

1128
01:20:08,519 --> 01:20:10,649
Dave Jones: will say it will say
I want

1129
01:20:10,650 --> 01:20:16,470
Adam Curry: to say where? Let me
see. Then I wanted to just

1130
01:20:16,470 --> 01:20:19,470
because you were so kind to send
through a bunch of questions, I

1131
01:20:19,470 --> 01:20:23,640
wanted to roll through your
needs, you had three we need.

1132
01:20:24,270 --> 01:20:27,030
And so we just walked through
those for a second. Because, you

1133
01:20:27,030 --> 01:20:30,030
know, seems like seems like it's
something you want to talk

1134
01:20:30,030 --> 01:20:34,230
about. I don't know.

1135
01:20:36,270 --> 01:20:38,190
Dave Jones: Worse and an ad,
yeah,

1136
01:20:38,189 --> 01:20:42,329
Adam Curry: analytics tags
source tag and a tag to create

1137
01:20:42,329 --> 01:20:45,929
an ad ecosystem. Or we could
talk about why affiliation is

1138
01:20:45,929 --> 01:20:49,289
the only solution to save the
internet from online ads.

1139
01:20:50,670 --> 01:20:52,740
Benjamin Bellamy: How many? How
much time do we have?

1140
01:20:53,190 --> 01:20:56,610
Adam Curry: Well, we got we got
two minutes.

1141
01:21:00,390 --> 01:21:08,310
Benjamin Bellamy: I'd be very
quick. No. Since fade seven is

1142
01:21:08,310 --> 01:21:13,140
closing on June. The First I was
thinking that maybe we could add

1143
01:21:13,500 --> 01:21:20,910
a little, little. Yeah, a few
more tags so that they don't get

1144
01:21:20,910 --> 01:21:21,420
bored.

1145
01:21:21,780 --> 01:21:22,620
Adam Curry: Oh, okay.

1146
01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:26,820
Dave Jones: Yes, thank you. All
right, thinking of maybe Okay,

1147
01:21:26,820 --> 01:21:28,560
Adam Curry: so All right. Let's
talk about him.

1148
01:21:30,420 --> 01:21:32,550
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, so we
talked about the recommendation

1149
01:21:32,550 --> 01:21:37,710
tag that's probably need
complete rewrites. I was

1150
01:21:37,950 --> 01:21:42,450
thinking about an a podcast
analytics tag, because the other

1151
01:21:42,450 --> 01:21:47,370
day I was looking at some
podcasts in mp3, and you have to

1152
01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:52,140
find the UID and see if it
exist. And if you get a four,

1153
01:21:52,140 --> 01:21:56,940
four, it's mean that it's not
there. So maybe just add a link

1154
01:21:56,940 --> 01:22:01,320
to the OP three page for this
specific podcast. So that you

1155
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:06,660
know if it's worth looking
there, if it's here, and that's

1156
01:22:06,660 --> 01:22:12,420
very easy to do very cheap. And
that will help promoting or p3,

1157
01:22:12,420 --> 01:22:19,320
I guess. I was also thinking
about adding, and this was not

1158
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:24,360
in my email, because I've been,
I found a diver a dozen other

1159
01:22:24,390 --> 01:22:29,760
tags, where I was asleep last
night. I think we need a country

1160
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:36,810
tag because we know what
language is. Is a podcast which

1161
01:22:36,810 --> 01:22:41,370
language it is, but we don't
know from each country. So we

1162
01:22:41,370 --> 01:22:45,660
don't know if it's in English.
If it's for US, UK, or Australia

1163
01:22:45,660 --> 01:22:49,860
or wherever. If it's French, we
don't know if it's from Africa

1164
01:22:49,860 --> 01:22:55,380
from Belgium or Canada, Canada
or France.

1165
01:22:55,950 --> 01:23:00,030
Adam Curry: Are you talking
about using the ISO 3166? Code?

1166
01:23:00,060 --> 01:23:01,650
Exactly? Yeah, yeah.

1167
01:23:03,030 --> 01:23:06,840
Benjamin Bellamy: That would be
cool as well. Even if not

1168
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:12,360
everyone uses it, it will give
you a real idea of the numbers.

1169
01:23:12,930 --> 01:23:19,110
Because we really can tell now,
unless we know that all of them.

1170
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:22,020
And so

1171
01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:26,370
Dave Jones: something like the
location tag location tag is

1172
01:23:26,370 --> 01:23:29,580
what the is what the is the
location that the podcast is

1173
01:23:29,580 --> 01:23:32,370
about. But the country tag would
be where it's originated.

1174
01:23:32,370 --> 01:23:32,820
Origin.

1175
01:23:32,850 --> 01:23:36,750
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, exactly.
Because if you use the location

1176
01:23:36,750 --> 01:23:44,010
tag, to specify where the
podcast was recorded, James

1177
01:23:44,010 --> 01:23:47,010
Cridland will get you. And yes.

1178
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:52,410
Adam Curry: Because yes, which
is why no one uses it. I'm

1179
01:23:52,410 --> 01:23:56,280
afraid to do it wrong. I don't
want Cridland to slap me. Yeah.

1180
01:23:58,980 --> 01:24:03,780
That's, I'm a fan of that. I
mean, people, people use it, or

1181
01:24:03,780 --> 01:24:09,120
PayPal, uses the 3166. And I
always appreciate that when we

1182
01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:12,450
have donations for no agenda.
Because no matter what we are

1183
01:24:12,450 --> 01:24:17,070
town, and believe me, there's a
lot of Paris. You know, then you

1184
01:24:17,070 --> 01:24:20,010
can really see what country it
is. And I I'm all for that. I

1185
01:24:20,010 --> 01:24:22,350
think it's a good idea. And I
know most of them by heart, you

1186
01:24:22,350 --> 01:24:25,440
know, just because of the
country stickers and that your

1187
01:24:25,470 --> 01:24:29,340
Europeans use. Yeah, on the
cars.

1188
01:24:31,140 --> 01:24:32,820
Dave Jones: As I like to two
letters like is that the two

1189
01:24:32,820 --> 01:24:33,570
letter codes?

1190
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:36,870
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, it's
exactly what I guess. Okay.

1191
01:24:38,790 --> 01:24:43,260
Benjamin Bellamy: I think we
also need a source tag to know

1192
01:24:43,290 --> 01:24:49,200
where the podcast was originally
broadcasted, or published. So

1193
01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:54,840
if, if before being a podcast,
it was a Twitch live, or it was

1194
01:24:54,870 --> 01:25:02,280
a live item, or it was maybe on
YouTube or on A radio network so

1195
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:06,360
that you know where it was
before being a podcast. Or maybe

1196
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:12,960
it's a rerun. And that could be
very useful in France, where,

1197
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:15,060
you know, we don't do everything
the same way.

1198
01:25:17,609 --> 01:25:21,479
Dave Jones: Oh, you mean that if
if, if there's a podcast episode

1199
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:24,269
you're listening to, you would
want to know whether that

1200
01:25:24,269 --> 01:25:26,279
originally was like a radio
program?

1201
01:25:26,910 --> 01:25:30,030
Benjamin Bellamy: Exactly if
what we call native podcasts,

1202
01:25:30,060 --> 01:25:35,370
which means it was published as
a podcast first, or if it's a

1203
01:25:35,370 --> 01:25:44,520
rerun or not. are a few radio
podcasts? Yeah. And it would, it

1204
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:49,590
would provide useful information
to know where it was published

1205
01:25:49,620 --> 01:25:54,450
in the first place. Yeah, okay.
So it's a URL. And if it's

1206
01:25:54,450 --> 01:25:58,470
empty, it means it's what we
call in French. Podcasts.

1207
01:25:58,470 --> 01:26:04,080
Native, native. Native native.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You speak

1208
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:04,590
French?

1209
01:26:04,890 --> 01:26:11,550
Adam Curry: May we? Speak of
James Cridland? For just a

1210
01:26:11,550 --> 01:26:16,080
moment. You interviewed him for?
What magazine? Was

1211
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:19,350
Benjamin Bellamy: that for?
Loop? Podcast? Magazine? Yes.

1212
01:26:19,380 --> 01:26:21,810
Adam Curry: The podcast
magazine, which is a? I mean,

1213
01:26:21,810 --> 01:26:23,250
that's a beautiful product.

1214
01:26:23,700 --> 01:26:26,910
Benjamin Bellamy: Actually, it
is. Yeah. 200 pages as a

1215
01:26:26,910 --> 01:26:29,130
Adam Curry: real? What's the
circulation of that? There's a

1216
01:26:29,130 --> 01:26:31,500
lot of people and how do you
even distribute that? Do you

1217
01:26:31,500 --> 01:26:35,340
have to order it? Or can or is
there put them at newsstands? Do

1218
01:26:35,340 --> 01:26:39,000
you throw them out? Your car
window? How do people get those?

1219
01:26:39,900 --> 01:26:41,460
Benjamin Bellamy: Know you
subscribe on podcast.

1220
01:26:41,460 --> 01:26:43,260
magazine.fr.

1221
01:26:43,380 --> 01:26:49,590
Adam Curry: And then you get it
in the mail? Yeah. And yes,

1222
01:26:50,310 --> 01:26:51,030
it's,

1223
01:26:51,510 --> 01:26:54,150
Benjamin Bellamy: it's published
by a guy named Philip chapeau.

1224
01:26:56,070 --> 01:26:57,360
Who is also

1225
01:26:58,500 --> 01:27:00,570
Adam Curry: like, that's like
Phil hat. Is that his name?

1226
01:27:00,570 --> 01:27:02,310
Philip? Chapeau. Phil hat.

1227
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:07,680
Benjamin Bellamy: Exactly. Yeah.
Actually, James Cridland calls

1228
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:08,850
him Mr. Hats.

1229
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:15,630
Adam Curry: There you go. Mr.
Hat? Yes. You sent me some

1230
01:27:15,630 --> 01:27:21,390
clips. Which I did. I didn't
know that. That you recorded it.

1231
01:27:21,510 --> 01:27:24,360
Was that from the interview that
you recorded? And then you just

1232
01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:28,260
transcribed it? Or did you
publish these somewhere? No,

1233
01:27:28,620 --> 01:27:31,560
Benjamin Bellamy: no one. Ever
heard that before?

1234
01:27:31,590 --> 01:27:33,930
Adam Curry: Oh, well, can I play
the one where you ask James

1235
01:27:33,930 --> 01:27:36,690
about me? Because obviously,
it's about me. I think that's

1236
01:27:36,690 --> 01:27:38,940
the most important clip, please.

1237
01:27:39,030 --> 01:27:41,040
Benjamin Bellamy: Oh, here we
go. Oh, you know,

1238
01:27:41,070 --> 01:27:44,850
Adam Curry: wait a minute. I had
it set. You did? Left. Right.

1239
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:48,990
Really? One second? You did you
on left and him on?

1240
01:27:48,990 --> 01:27:50,550
Benjamin Bellamy: Right. Yeah.

1241
01:27:50,850 --> 01:27:53,550
Adam Curry: You have to play it
on mono? Yes. Okay, that takes a

1242
01:27:53,550 --> 01:27:55,710
second here. Here we go. Let's
see if this works.

1243
01:27:56,430 --> 01:28:00,480
Benjamin Bellamy: You know, Adam
Korea doesn't mince his words

1244
01:28:00,480 --> 01:28:07,020
when she disagrees with someone.
And that includes you. Are you

1245
01:28:07,020 --> 01:28:08,010
getting along?

1246
01:28:09,210 --> 01:28:11,850
Unknown: Yes, I think so. Yes, I
think so. Absolutely.

1247
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:17,340
Absolutely. He and I are both he
and I are very similar.

1248
01:28:17,340 --> 01:28:22,410
Actually, we both are very
obsessive about, about what we

1249
01:28:22,410 --> 01:28:27,090
are interested in. And that
means that if people either

1250
01:28:27,090 --> 01:28:31,980
don't get it or are, you know,
willfully not getting it, then,

1251
01:28:32,550 --> 01:28:35,820
you know, we will be we will not
be particularly happy about

1252
01:28:35,820 --> 01:28:42,480
that. But no, you know, I think
what is what is exciting about

1253
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:48,150
the whole podcasting 2.0
ecosystem is that actually,

1254
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:53,850
people are incredibly passionate
about what they are, what they

1255
01:28:53,850 --> 01:28:57,180
are doing. And sometimes that
means that people that people's

1256
01:28:57,180 --> 01:29:00,750
ideas clash, and that's actually
great. I would much rather that

1257
01:29:00,750 --> 01:29:05,340
than interminable. You know,
meetings, people saying one

1258
01:29:05,340 --> 01:29:07,680
thing and doing the other and
blah, blah, blah, at least you

1259
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:09,660
know, where you stand. So that's
a good thing.

1260
01:29:10,260 --> 01:29:15,330
Adam Curry: Oh, that was kind of
him. Yeah, I agree. I'm totally

1261
01:29:15,330 --> 01:29:17,160
on board. That's, I

1262
01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:19,770
Dave Jones: agree to Yeah, agree
to it's better. Like, it's

1263
01:29:19,770 --> 01:29:23,160
better to have people get super
pissed off. Yeah. And then gripe

1264
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:25,890
at each other and figure it out,
and then figure it out, figure

1265
01:29:25,890 --> 01:29:29,280
it out. Yeah, figure it out and
move forward. And then you're in

1266
01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:31,740
then everybody's fine. I mean,
that's one thing. That's one

1267
01:29:31,740 --> 01:29:35,220
thing that defines this group
more than any other open source

1268
01:29:35,220 --> 01:29:40,440
project I can ever remember.
Exactly. Yeah. The passion and

1269
01:29:40,440 --> 01:29:43,920
the disagreement, but then
everybody just moves on and

1270
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:47,520
gets. We just push stuff out.
It's more it's wonderful.

1271
01:29:47,730 --> 01:29:50,310
Adam Curry: That's why I say we
I was gonna say Sam Sethi you

1272
01:29:50,310 --> 01:29:53,070
didn't have to send a note of
apology for what you said about

1273
01:29:53,070 --> 01:29:57,870
me this week. He sent me he sent
me an email. I'm sorry in

1274
01:29:57,870 --> 01:30:00,990
advance for my passion. was like
I Have a curry. There's Adam

1275
01:30:00,990 --> 01:30:03,870
curry that was like, brother you
don't? I've given up my right to

1276
01:30:03,870 --> 01:30:06,960
be offended long time ago. It's
all good. And I love your

1277
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:07,530
passion.

1278
01:30:08,190 --> 01:30:11,730
Benjamin Bellamy: And you have
to say when you disagree to, to

1279
01:30:11,730 --> 01:30:18,570
find meaning point in the end.
Yeah. Yeah. Which leads me to my

1280
01:30:18,570 --> 01:30:27,540
last tag. We go because this one
I think it's it's something on

1281
01:30:27,540 --> 01:30:33,540
which Adam and I strongly
disagree. Beautiful here we go I

1282
01:30:33,540 --> 01:30:38,040
think we need a podcast add tag
for advertising. Oh,

1283
01:30:38,310 --> 01:30:40,740
Adam Curry: for a very Why would
you think I would disagree with

1284
01:30:40,740 --> 01:30:43,800
that I'm already interested I
like this I just the fact that

1285
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:45,660
you're thinking about it makes
me interested.

1286
01:30:48,630 --> 01:30:50,820
Benjamin Bellamy: I think you
disagree because you're not so

1287
01:30:50,820 --> 01:30:57,720
much in the advertising.
industry or a that's not the way

1288
01:30:57,720 --> 01:31:03,870
you you wish to promote
podcasting. My point of view is

1289
01:31:03,900 --> 01:31:11,040
that we we cannot let YouTube
and we cannot abandon the

1290
01:31:11,070 --> 01:31:17,430
podcast advertising to YouTube,
or to Spotify or to anyone. And

1291
01:31:18,630 --> 01:31:24,120
there's something I was quite
surprised when I first looked at

1292
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:30,840
it, the numbers of the how many
YouTube channels they are? I

1293
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:35,760
don't know if you know that. No.
Yeah, because no one knows.

1294
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:41,850
Because obviously YouTube's they
keep these hidden and secrets.

1295
01:31:42,150 --> 01:31:51,900
But we think they are around
30,000 youtube 30 million,

1296
01:31:51,930 --> 01:31:57,990
sorry, 30 million YouTube
channels, which compared to 4

1297
01:31:57,990 --> 01:32:03,000
million podcasts is quite
impressive. And the reason why

1298
01:32:03,030 --> 01:32:10,560
is, I guess that people try and
build channels on YouTube,

1299
01:32:10,590 --> 01:32:14,760
because they have a dream that
they will be able to monetize

1300
01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:18,330
and to make money out of it.
Even if they don't know there is

1301
01:32:18,330 --> 01:32:23,910
no number of how much money you
can get from a YouTube channel.

1302
01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:28,080
Like not if you're the first one
or in the top 10. But if your

1303
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:34,320
average, what's the median
income from a YouTube channel

1304
01:32:34,770 --> 01:32:44,310
$2. But the thing is, the dream
works. And YouTube manage to get

1305
01:32:44,340 --> 01:32:51,780
everyone on on its platform. And
my fear is that, even though so

1306
01:32:51,780 --> 01:32:57,240
far, it doesn't work at all.
Eventually, they managed to get

1307
01:32:57,270 --> 01:33:01,230
every podcaster in the world on
their platform, because it's

1308
01:33:01,230 --> 01:33:05,880
easy. You don't pay for the
hosting, you get all the tools

1309
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:10,290
you need. You get the social
network, you get the search

1310
01:33:10,290 --> 01:33:13,530
engine, you get the player, and
you get the monetization

1311
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:20,100
monetization parts. And as soon
as they get everyone on board,

1312
01:33:20,190 --> 01:33:25,290
and it's across silo, and they
have a monopoly, it's game over.

1313
01:33:26,070 --> 01:33:32,400
Probably some of us will still
fight for an open and

1314
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:38,040
interoperable podcasting across
system. But you know, that

1315
01:33:38,070 --> 01:33:44,430
doesn't wait very much. myself,
when I'm looking for a video on

1316
01:33:44,430 --> 01:33:51,060
the internet, I'm going to
YouTube. So that's a huge risk.

1317
01:33:51,210 --> 01:33:59,340
So I think we need a really open
an interconnected advertising

1318
01:33:59,340 --> 01:34:04,680
system for the podcasting
industry. And one, we're all the

1319
01:34:05,700 --> 01:34:11,280
counterparts all the actors can
share the same goal, because so

1320
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:15,900
far, if you're looking at how
things are working, if you're a

1321
01:34:15,900 --> 01:34:22,380
podcaster, you can add inserts
an ad like audio ad, but the app

1322
01:34:22,410 --> 01:34:27,120
will get nothing out of it. And
on the other end, if an ad puts

1323
01:34:28,350 --> 01:34:33,900
an advertise an advertisement on
the app, like podcast addict

1324
01:34:33,930 --> 01:34:36,930
does, the podcaster will get
nothing. So

1325
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:40,080
Adam Curry: let me jump in here.
Are you suggesting just let me

1326
01:34:40,080 --> 01:34:44,340
see if I'm following along and
add tag that is an open call

1327
01:34:44,340 --> 01:34:49,530
that says you can add an
advertisement to this podcast

1328
01:34:49,530 --> 01:34:52,350
and then there's here's some
parameters, etc. So that

1329
01:34:52,350 --> 01:34:55,830
everyone knows. So you're
building an open ecosystem so

1330
01:34:55,830 --> 01:34:59,310
that advertisers and advertising
companies could come from the

1331
01:34:59,310 --> 01:35:01,710
outside and just utilize that

1332
01:35:03,060 --> 01:35:07,470
Benjamin Bellamy: and share
revenue between the host, the

1333
01:35:07,470 --> 01:35:09,360
app, the podcaster.

1334
01:35:11,759 --> 01:35:16,589
Dave Jones: So this sounds like
this sounds sort of like what

1335
01:35:16,589 --> 01:35:21,239
Google is trying to do in the
browser with their new would get

1336
01:35:21,239 --> 01:35:23,429
the name of it with this new
thing where they're essentially

1337
01:35:23,429 --> 01:35:28,859
turning the browser into the ad
auction platform. But you're

1338
01:35:28,859 --> 01:35:33,509
saying that so instead of having
a centralized ad,

1339
01:35:35,189 --> 01:35:38,189
Adam Curry: or host only, or a
hosting company only, that's

1340
01:35:38,189 --> 01:35:40,739
kind of how I see it working
now, as the hosting companies

1341
01:35:40,739 --> 01:35:41,909
are doing a lot of that work,

1342
01:35:42,330 --> 01:35:44,430
Dave Jones: or sandbox. Thank
you. Thank you.

1343
01:35:45,870 --> 01:35:51,780
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, but the
thing is, we need to be first to

1344
01:35:51,780 --> 01:35:56,070
write down this specification so
that it meets what we need, what

1345
01:35:56,070 --> 01:36:00,300
we think would be the right
thing to do. For one thing,

1346
01:36:00,870 --> 01:36:03,750
there's something really cool
that I like a lot about the

1347
01:36:03,750 --> 01:36:08,160
podcasting ecosystem, is that
there is no cookie. There's

1348
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:14,010
never been any cookies in the
podcasting apps. So right now,

1349
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:19,170
if you're listening to a podcast
with audio insertion, maybe it

1350
01:36:19,170 --> 01:36:25,590
will be geo localized. But
that's about it. Because the

1351
01:36:25,590 --> 01:36:30,450
attack doesn't know anything
about you as a listener. When

1352
01:36:30,450 --> 01:36:36,090
you go on the websites, they
have your whole history for the

1353
01:36:36,090 --> 01:36:39,150
past six months, when you're
listening to a podcast in a

1354
01:36:39,150 --> 01:36:42,900
podcast app, they know nothing,
which is a really good thing in

1355
01:36:42,900 --> 01:36:49,680
my point of view, because I
think that advertisements should

1356
01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:50,970
be contextual,

1357
01:36:51,780 --> 01:36:52,740
Dave Jones: for energy, here's

1358
01:36:52,740 --> 01:36:53,790
Benjamin Bellamy: what I hear
rely.

1359
01:36:55,680 --> 01:36:59,730
Dave Jones: Here's what I would
like to see. If if this is

1360
01:36:59,730 --> 01:37:03,930
something that the advertising
we we hear all the time from the

1361
01:37:03,930 --> 01:37:12,390
ad people from media roundtable
was sounds profitable. I mean,

1362
01:37:12,390 --> 01:37:15,780
there's there Magellan, there's,
I mean, all endless numbers of,

1363
01:37:16,350 --> 01:37:20,760
of advocates and advertising
agencies within podcasting and

1364
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:25,050
audio in general, if this is
something that they want to have

1365
01:37:25,050 --> 01:37:30,450
as an open specification for,
for this type of thing, if the

1366
01:37:30,450 --> 01:37:34,110
if they're sear if if like, if
that's something they want, I

1367
01:37:34,110 --> 01:37:36,570
would like that, I would say
they should write it, they

1368
01:37:36,570 --> 01:37:39,420
should write the specification,
submitted to the net to the

1369
01:37:39,420 --> 01:37:41,220
namespace and let everybody hash
it out.

1370
01:37:41,250 --> 01:37:43,860
Adam Curry: And the part that I
like Benjamin, and that's where

1371
01:37:43,860 --> 01:37:47,610
you where you grab my attention
is that everybody shares in it,

1372
01:37:47,610 --> 01:37:52,200
the host, the podcast, and the
app, that part I like, I like a

1373
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:55,650
lot. But I'm with Dave, like,
hey, you know, you guys are

1374
01:37:55,650 --> 01:37:58,200
always talking about it. Here's
your opportunity. Go build it.

1375
01:37:58,440 --> 01:37:59,430
Right it Oh, yeah. But

1376
01:38:00,750 --> 01:38:03,840
Benjamin Bellamy: I don't think
if we wait for the ad tech to

1377
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:07,890
write that. I don't think that's
going to go well. They're

1378
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:12,270
probably tried to reproduce what
they've been doing on the

1379
01:38:12,270 --> 01:38:16,980
internet for the past 20 years.
And I don't like that as, as a

1380
01:38:17,400 --> 01:38:19,920
as a user. Ad

1381
01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:22,530
Dave Jones: Tech is abandoning
podcasting. Anyway, eventually

1382
01:38:22,530 --> 01:38:26,010
on the long term, then, I mean,
they're, they're gonna bail out,

1383
01:38:26,010 --> 01:38:29,640
they're already trying to create
a narrative of transition that

1384
01:38:29,640 --> 01:38:35,430
podcasting is is converting to
video. Which is completely not

1385
01:38:35,670 --> 01:38:38,880
completely not true. That but
it's because the money is

1386
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:43,230
leaving podcasting and going to
YouTube. So the ad agencies and

1387
01:38:43,230 --> 01:38:46,260
the digital advertising market
is trying to create this

1388
01:38:46,260 --> 01:38:49,920
narrative so they can follow the
money over to YouTube and bail

1389
01:38:49,920 --> 01:38:53,550
out of podcasts. And I think I
think they're leaving anyway. So

1390
01:38:53,550 --> 01:38:54,810
I don't think we're choosing any
of that.

1391
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:57,450
Benjamin Bellamy: Which is
exactly my point. I don't

1392
01:38:57,480 --> 01:39:01,050
abandoned everything to YouTube.
So

1393
01:39:01,050 --> 01:39:03,030
Dave Jones: I guess but I guess
what I'm saying is that if they

1394
01:39:03,030 --> 01:39:06,690
all leave there won't be anybody
to even run this system anyway.

1395
01:39:09,990 --> 01:39:10,830
Benjamin Bellamy: I'll be here.

1396
01:39:14,220 --> 01:39:15,600
Dave Jones: You already I mean,
you add

1397
01:39:17,189 --> 01:39:20,129
Benjamin Bellamy: I'm fine.
We've 100% of the market shares.

1398
01:39:21,689 --> 01:39:25,409
Adam Curry: Yeah, you write it
up. I vote yes. I vote your

1399
01:39:25,409 --> 01:39:28,289
vote. I'd love to see it. Yeah,
I'd love to see it. We'll call

1400
01:39:28,289 --> 01:39:28,949
it the cast to

1401
01:39:28,950 --> 01:39:31,230
Dave Jones: add tag. Yes.

1402
01:39:34,500 --> 01:39:38,670
Adam Curry: Let's thank a few
people as we near the end of our

1403
01:39:38,670 --> 01:39:42,000
time here today in this board
meeting which has been just

1404
01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:45,870
lovely to to catch up with our
our good old friend there.

1405
01:39:45,870 --> 01:39:51,780
Benjamin bellick Bellamy from
from France. We have a number of

1406
01:39:51,780 --> 01:39:55,200
boosts that came in Dobie das
RSS blue with 1000 SAS just came

1407
01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:58,860
he says I just sent a booster
Graham about how I hate fees and

1408
01:39:58,860 --> 01:40:00,240
all of it went to the artist To

1409
01:40:05,819 --> 01:40:11,459
Bouverie 808 a boob burry booths
this time next week. Homegirl is

1410
01:40:11,519 --> 01:40:15,809
an ad. This this is how I like
advertising. This time next week

1411
01:40:15,839 --> 01:40:19,799
homegrown hits featuring Dame
DeLorean Mary Kate altra and

1412
01:40:19,799 --> 01:40:23,999
dacb Cooper will have the first
ever bootable disco ball. I

1413
01:40:23,999 --> 01:40:28,049
found a guy who's got a big big
rehearsal space in Minneapolis.

1414
01:40:28,049 --> 01:40:31,949
He wants to host an onboard day
where we bring in all the bands

1415
01:40:31,949 --> 01:40:35,129
that use the space onboard them
and get them on stage for a set

1416
01:40:35,129 --> 01:40:39,149
during the live stream. And he
says I'm going to need V for V

1417
01:40:39,149 --> 01:40:44,909
music videos. And blueberry is
very, very jacked up about all

1418
01:40:44,909 --> 01:40:48,899
the music stuff. I love that. Of
course he was a big part of the

1419
01:40:49,559 --> 01:40:54,629
Ainsley and just loud concert he
has phantom power phantom power

1420
01:40:54,629 --> 01:40:58,829
music our 2000 SATs boosting for
the Dutch Duke of decentralized

1421
01:40:58,829 --> 01:41:04,739
music thanks Adam and Dave love
you to rove ducks from anonymous

1422
01:41:04,829 --> 01:41:08,039
you're seriously simple
podcasting WordPress plugin is

1423
01:41:08,039 --> 01:41:13,109
very easy to use for an average
user like myself What are you

1424
01:41:13,109 --> 01:41:15,959
saying who has the seriously
simple podcasting WordPress

1425
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:21,960
Dave Jones: a simple that's a
cat that's what is the name of

1426
01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:25,020
that forgot to totally forgot
the name of the host it's it's

1427
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:28,830
escaping me. It's a guest host
Thank you Nathan.

1428
01:41:29,220 --> 01:41:33,600
Adam Curry: catch those. Another
808 from blueberry dramatic been

1429
01:41:33,600 --> 01:41:36,690
adding all the music feeds we've
hosted to our pre show feed for

1430
01:41:36,690 --> 01:41:39,330
pod roll can't wait to see it
display fully somewhere. There

1431
01:41:39,330 --> 01:41:42,810
you go. People are publishers.
We have a pod roll. I got a pod

1432
01:41:42,810 --> 01:41:49,650
rollin on my podcast now. D wave
DW ev 1789 Mercy Benjamin for a

1433
01:41:49,650 --> 01:41:53,040
fantastic platform so proud to
be contributed to the project.

1434
01:41:53,820 --> 01:42:00,990
Are you familiar with D wave?
Yeah. Okay. And Matt madeiros

1435
01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:04,770
1000 SATs coming in from true
fans. He says you're thinking

1436
01:42:04,770 --> 01:42:09,390
Dave about Tanner Campbell.
Tanner, can. Whatever happened

1437
01:42:09,390 --> 01:42:10,320
to him? Whatever

1438
01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:13,290
Dave Jones: happened? Yeah, he
calls waves for a long time. And

1439
01:42:13,290 --> 01:42:18,000
then he just he waves away to
substack and he said one day he

1440
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:20,310
said I'm not going to do this
anymore by

1441
01:42:23,580 --> 01:42:26,850
Adam Curry: Joe Martin music
with 2100 sets and he says SATs

1442
01:42:26,850 --> 01:42:31,440
greater than streams. Hear that?
Sir Brian of London 1948 This

1443
01:42:31,440 --> 01:42:34,710
week's episode better be full of
Janessa quoi? I think we had

1444
01:42:35,190 --> 01:42:41,850
beaucoup Shanice ACWA kala Mona.
I listened to striper boost 7777

1445
01:42:41,850 --> 01:42:44,400
listening live while preparing
for my long drive back to

1446
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:48,570
Missouri from California this
weekend. This is her libre i

1447
01:42:48,570 --> 01:42:51,810
love playing here in value verse
thank you all for your hard

1448
01:42:51,810 --> 01:42:55,020
work. Where are we with
categories? Also Are we ever

1449
01:42:55,020 --> 01:42:59,190
going to get more Tor con seven
May God bless you my brothers

1450
01:42:59,190 --> 01:43:04,590
sir libre. Yes, where's your kid
man? northmor torque on now

1451
01:43:04,620 --> 01:43:08,640
Dave Jones: my my my son is
currently trying to find a

1452
01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:12,990
welding gig so he has no time
for for torque on paint. You

1453
01:43:12,990 --> 01:43:15,510
Adam Curry: think you think that
the there'll be plenty of

1454
01:43:15,510 --> 01:43:17,250
openings for welders is

1455
01:43:18,540 --> 01:43:21,660
Dave Jones: there is yeah there
is he's just he's a PCB and he

1456
01:43:21,660 --> 01:43:26,340
doesn't have his certification
yet. Okay. Fully Certified. So

1457
01:43:26,340 --> 01:43:30,330
he's trying to try to find a gig
where he can work and still go

1458
01:43:30,330 --> 01:43:32,130
to school to get his finisher
certification.

1459
01:43:32,580 --> 01:43:35,760
Adam Curry: Dred Scott, the
Bruce Wayne podcast in 2.0 with

1460
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:40,650
a nice Rav ducks 22,222 Who says
boosting MC boost boost boost

1461
01:43:40,680 --> 01:43:44,160
back at you drip and drip of
course also does our chapters we

1462
01:43:44,160 --> 01:43:49,770
appreciate that salty Crayon
1111 here on upbeats ranch doing

1463
01:43:49,770 --> 01:43:52,320
things a little differently
going forward might hurt some

1464
01:43:52,320 --> 01:43:56,610
feelings, but Bitcoin basic
education is needed. We got too

1465
01:43:56,610 --> 01:43:59,970
many clueless cattle running
around with no border collie to

1466
01:43:59,970 --> 01:44:05,670
guide them where to go wave Lake
is Cargill. Okay he's cargoes

1467
01:44:05,670 --> 01:44:10,650
like the big big big ag we don't
get from there anymore next the

1468
01:44:10,650 --> 01:44:14,430
bucket of Lb eggs in one basket
is to fall from now on it's

1469
01:44:14,430 --> 01:44:17,190
grassroots grass finished
musicians that get to come into

1470
01:44:17,190 --> 01:44:18,930
the ranch ITP

1471
01:44:19,770 --> 01:44:22,590
Dave Jones: like grass finished
moose musicians

1472
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:26,370
Adam Curry: Yeah, well we
definitely need if we need to

1473
01:44:26,370 --> 01:44:31,650
get Royer we need more more
solutions for wallets for sure.

1474
01:44:32,430 --> 01:44:35,940
For sure. I have resorted to
telling people that you know

1475
01:44:35,940 --> 01:44:38,490
what you can't do have to be
afraid of Bitcoin you can buy it

1476
01:44:38,490 --> 01:44:41,760
right through you're right on
Wall Street right through your

1477
01:44:41,760 --> 01:44:47,100
broker through your your for
your your ETF. It's official.

1478
01:44:47,100 --> 01:44:54,540
It's real. It's not to it's not
a scam. And let me see I think I

1479
01:44:54,540 --> 01:44:58,110
think that's it. Yeah. Then I
hit the delimiter. So Dave over

1480
01:44:58,110 --> 01:44:58,680
to you know,

1481
01:44:58,980 --> 01:45:01,920
Dave Jones: yeah, we got some
Guess pay pals this week? We got

1482
01:45:02,460 --> 01:45:08,160
Buzzsprout our friends over
there with $1,000 monthly

1483
01:45:08,160 --> 01:45:08,550
donation

1484
01:45:09,899 --> 01:45:13,619
Unknown: Sakala 20 is played on
EMTALA.

1485
01:45:14,070 --> 01:45:17,280
Adam Curry: Thank you so much,
guys. That's I mean, Trent.

1486
01:45:17,820 --> 01:45:19,800
Dave Jones: You're trying to get
them back. Yes. Still trying to

1487
01:45:19,800 --> 01:45:22,650
get them back back on the show
can't Yeah, but we this like,

1488
01:45:22,830 --> 01:45:24,570
scheduling chaos. So it's

1489
01:45:24,930 --> 01:45:25,950
Adam Curry: not on our end.

1490
01:45:27,330 --> 01:45:32,160
Dave Jones: History. Yeah, we'll
get them on soon. And right,

1491
01:45:32,400 --> 01:45:36,180
right behind that Marco arm and
$500 Yeah, another.

1492
01:45:37,229 --> 01:45:42,059
Adam Curry: Saqqara plays only
Impala. There was an interesting

1493
01:45:42,089 --> 01:45:46,529
remark on the podcast weekly
review that we don't give Marco,

1494
01:45:46,529 --> 01:45:53,309
any shit for not adding any
podcasting 2.0 features that I'm

1495
01:45:53,309 --> 01:45:58,109
paraphrasing. And I would say
that the genesis of what Dave

1496
01:45:58,109 --> 01:46:03,689
and I are doing here is the
podcast index, which is to keep

1497
01:46:03,689 --> 01:46:08,459
a free and open ecosystem for
podcasting, specifically podcast

1498
01:46:08,459 --> 01:46:12,689
apps. Marco supports us with not
just treasure but time and

1499
01:46:12,689 --> 01:46:15,779
talent, we have a correct me if
I'm wrong, we have a

1500
01:46:15,779 --> 01:46:18,809
synchronization with his
database and our database. And

1501
01:46:18,989 --> 01:46:22,169
he uses us as a fallback. And
whenever he finds something we

1502
01:46:22,169 --> 01:46:26,459
don't have he automatically
plugs it in. And, you know,

1503
01:46:26,489 --> 01:46:29,579
there's all these features that
just came along, and we've just

1504
01:46:29,579 --> 01:46:32,219
stuck it in for the ride. I
mean, that was not anything in

1505
01:46:32,219 --> 01:46:37,499
our initial mission statement.
You know, for the same reason,

1506
01:46:37,709 --> 01:46:41,519
I'm sure. Podcast weekly review
doesn't call out Buzzsprout for

1507
01:46:41,519 --> 01:46:45,869
not adding several features. We
appreciate Marcos support.

1508
01:46:46,470 --> 01:46:48,990
Dave Jones: Well, I'm not going
to call out any indie app

1509
01:46:48,990 --> 01:46:52,980
developer for anything. I can't,
I can't run their business, and

1510
01:46:52,980 --> 01:46:56,880
I can't tell them what to do.
But he also Yeah, he provides

1511
01:46:56,910 --> 01:47:01,230
time with syncing and giving us
a constant stream of new feeds.

1512
01:47:01,260 --> 01:47:06,060
And he donates $500 a month.
Yeah. So that his own

1513
01:47:06,060 --> 01:47:09,210
competitors can have an index to
use. I mean, it's like it's

1514
01:47:09,210 --> 01:47:13,800
really hard to criticize that.
Exactly. I mean, it's, I don't

1515
01:47:13,800 --> 01:47:15,420
know what to say. I mean, you

1516
01:47:15,420 --> 01:47:17,400
Adam Curry: said exactly that.
No, you're exactly right. I

1517
01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:21,870
mean, it's. And yes, he's
funding his own competition. So

1518
01:47:21,870 --> 01:47:24,330
that's beautiful. I love that.
Yeah. kawaman where

1519
01:47:24,330 --> 01:47:26,370
Dave Jones: his mouth is, yes.
Really hard to criticize

1520
01:47:26,370 --> 01:47:31,080
anything about that in front end
in likewise, Franco Celerio $100

1521
01:47:31,260 --> 01:47:31,590
on when

1522
01:47:31,590 --> 01:47:34,530
Adam Curry: you hit him a big
ball to Sakala

1523
01:47:34,529 --> 01:47:37,259
Unknown: 20 blades on him Paula

1524
01:47:37,860 --> 01:47:40,110
Dave Jones: cat from CAST
ematic. And you just says thank

1525
01:47:40,110 --> 01:47:42,240
you. I mean, there's another
there's another app developer,

1526
01:47:42,720 --> 01:47:46,170
giving money to the index to
support us so that other app

1527
01:47:46,170 --> 01:47:50,460
developers, one of which I
emailed with yesterday, who's

1528
01:47:50,730 --> 01:47:57,510
creating a sermon like religious
podcast based app. Oh, and he's

1529
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:00,210
trying to figure out, you know,
what, how to use the index, and

1530
01:48:00,210 --> 01:48:04,290
I've been helping him. Oh, cool.
And it's like, cool. You know,

1531
01:48:04,290 --> 01:48:10,230
there's, there's Marco and
Franco, and Mitch and all the

1532
01:48:10,230 --> 01:48:13,950
all these app developers that
are providing the money to fund

1533
01:48:13,950 --> 01:48:16,800
the index to help other people
who can't afford it, who are

1534
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:19,650
just starting out, and I just
think that's, I mean, that's

1535
01:48:19,650 --> 01:48:24,480
great. Yes. And let's see, we
got Oh, Thomas homestead

1536
01:48:24,720 --> 01:48:29,370
homestead media $25 And he says,
caught my four year old running

1537
01:48:29,370 --> 01:48:31,800
full speed with an open pair of
scissors. Yeah, that was a good

1538
01:48:31,800 --> 01:48:34,020
reminder to sense of value. Yes.

1539
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:35,820
Keep up the great work Thomas.

1540
01:48:36,479 --> 01:48:38,579
Adam Curry: Nothing like
teaching your kid Good. Good.

1541
01:48:38,819 --> 01:48:40,139
Good practices early on.

1542
01:48:40,740 --> 01:48:44,640
Dave Jones: Yeah. Let's see we
got some boosts we got. Thank

1543
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:49,530
you, Thomas. De Jackson. The
legend 2000 says three true

1544
01:48:49,530 --> 01:48:54,030
fans. Oh, great tune. Yeah, sure
which to

1545
01:48:54,030 --> 01:48:58,320
Adam Curry: do which Sam we need
some to V record info brother. I

1546
01:48:58,320 --> 01:48:59,190
know he's working on it.

1547
01:49:00,089 --> 01:49:03,359
Dave Jones: Pot home berry or
buddy over there. 20,000 SAS

1548
01:49:03,359 --> 01:49:06,719
through podcasts guru says great
timing. Live is currently in

1549
01:49:06,719 --> 01:49:09,809
beta for select users and pod
home it's almost ready for the

1550
01:49:09,809 --> 01:49:14,609
mainstream including an ice cast
server hosted by adding the chat

1551
01:49:14,609 --> 01:49:17,369
tag is something that will make
this a more complete feature.

1552
01:49:17,369 --> 01:49:21,479
Yes. Nice. Yep. Nice. We didn't
even talk about that a funnel as

1553
01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:24,179
the chat tag over the past
weekend so no,

1554
01:49:24,179 --> 01:49:26,819
Adam Curry: I saw it you asked
for eyes on I looked at it and

1555
01:49:26,819 --> 01:49:28,829
went okay, I looked at it I hope
it's okay.

1556
01:49:29,490 --> 01:49:33,870
Dave Jones: We had what I asked
for feedback and I got one reply

1557
01:49:33,870 --> 01:49:39,270
which was Barry saying looks
good. I consider that to be

1558
01:49:39,750 --> 01:49:44,550
successful deployment. Yes.
Okay, good. Our W Nash 2000 SATs

1559
01:49:44,550 --> 01:49:47,100
through fountain he says still
missing the Delta Sierra.

1560
01:49:48,840 --> 01:49:51,180
Adam Curry: Well, to Delta
share, Charlie, is that what he

1561
01:49:51,180 --> 01:49:51,630
means?

1562
01:49:53,189 --> 01:49:55,529
Dave Jones: A decent Delta
Sierra I'm not sure what he

1563
01:49:55,529 --> 01:49:55,979
means.

1564
01:49:56,549 --> 01:49:58,769
Adam Curry: Well, it used to be
the daily source code was also

1565
01:49:58,769 --> 01:50:01,649
known as the Delta Share.
Charlie I'm not sure what the

1566
01:50:01,649 --> 01:50:02,849
delta shear is.

1567
01:50:03,870 --> 01:50:08,430
Dave Jones: I don't know. Gene
been 2222 He says another great

1568
01:50:08,430 --> 01:50:11,310
boardroom discussion Keep up the
good work well Thank you Jean

1569
01:50:11,310 --> 01:50:14,430
for your monitoring and all
everything else you do. Oh,

1570
01:50:14,460 --> 01:50:17,700
there's elite boost from Gene
137 to cast ematic he says also

1571
01:50:17,700 --> 01:50:20,490
the fountain boost bought in the
splits it seems broken it's

1572
01:50:20,490 --> 01:50:21,570
showing no route

1573
01:50:22,859 --> 01:50:24,899
Adam Curry: that may be
something I have to change me

1574
01:50:24,899 --> 01:50:29,879
right down my list because they
changed the LG nodata Yeah, I

1575
01:50:29,879 --> 01:50:32,279
think I have to change that.
Okay, found some boost.

1576
01:50:33,899 --> 01:50:37,439
Dave Jones: We got Oscar coming
up here in the next good weeks

1577
01:50:37,439 --> 01:50:40,229
and we're gonna discuss a lot of
that type of stuff with him

1578
01:50:40,259 --> 01:50:45,569
good. Kevin Bay 50,000 says Oh,
thank you guys. God verse. Says,

1579
01:50:45,569 --> 01:50:48,599
Dave, watch Guys and Dolls if
you haven't seen it yet. One of

1580
01:50:48,599 --> 01:50:52,049
my favorite musicals of all time
Sinatra and Brando is a classic.

1581
01:50:52,079 --> 01:50:59,519
i We watched it three weeks ago.
And and and I did technical

1582
01:50:59,519 --> 01:51:02,399
theater, the lighting for guys
and dolls when I was in high

1583
01:51:02,399 --> 01:51:02,759
school.

1584
01:51:02,820 --> 01:51:06,030
Adam Curry: Did you like it? So
did you like the music? Great,

1585
01:51:06,210 --> 01:51:07,020
Dave Jones: great musical.

1586
01:51:07,050 --> 01:51:08,190
Adam Curry: What are you
watching this week?

1587
01:51:09,270 --> 01:51:13,410
Dave Jones: Let's see. This
week. We watched we actually we

1588
01:51:13,410 --> 01:51:18,210
watch something that wasn't a
musical. We watched. Oh, no. We

1589
01:51:18,210 --> 01:51:23,520
watched Roman Holiday be seen
that movie. Ah. Is that where

1590
01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:29,610
you pick and who's the who's the
Breakfast at Tiffany's?

1591
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:35,220
Adam Curry: Audrey Hepburn?
Audrey Hepburn? Sure. I've seen

1592
01:51:35,220 --> 01:51:36,780
it at some point. Yes, she's

1593
01:51:36,780 --> 01:51:39,030
Dave Jones: the British princess
who goes to

1594
01:51:40,229 --> 01:51:42,899
Adam Curry: they wind up riding
around on Vesper scooters a lot.

1595
01:51:43,319 --> 01:51:44,639
Yeah, okay. I've seen it

1596
01:51:46,500 --> 01:51:49,710
Dave Jones: as a good movie, but
then we also we also watched

1597
01:51:50,430 --> 01:51:53,730
Julie Andrews in Sound of Music.
We're about halfway through that

1598
01:51:53,730 --> 01:51:54,210
sound of

1599
01:51:54,210 --> 01:51:57,360
Adam Curry: music. I love that.
I can watch that over and over

1600
01:51:57,360 --> 01:51:57,810
again.

1601
01:51:58,349 --> 01:52:01,259
Dave Jones: Julie Andrews
playing the guitar that's now

1602
01:52:01,259 --> 01:52:04,829
Adam Curry: that part I could do
without but I just like the you

1603
01:52:04,829 --> 01:52:07,079
know, like when they're running
from the Nazis, and they're all

1604
01:52:07,079 --> 01:52:10,469
hiding. It was spooky and scary
when I saw it as a kid and I

1605
01:52:10,469 --> 01:52:11,189
still love it.

1606
01:52:11,969 --> 01:52:14,189
Dave Jones: Also bonus points
for using the phrase

1607
01:52:14,339 --> 01:52:18,959
flibbertigibbet which is always
a good turn Liberty Jouvet. Yes.

1608
01:52:19,619 --> 01:52:27,179
Are you are you a fan of
musicals? Benjamin? Yeah. Is are

1609
01:52:27,179 --> 01:52:29,369
their French or their French?
They're

1610
01:52:29,370 --> 01:52:31,800
Adam Curry: miserable. And baby.
Lamb is

1611
01:52:33,090 --> 01:52:38,430
Benjamin Bellamy: true. Yeah,
many of them are. Regarding

1612
01:52:38,430 --> 01:52:46,410
movies. Check Domi if you heard
of him was very famous. And he

1613
01:52:46,440 --> 01:52:49,890
inspired like lala land. And
really

1614
01:52:50,400 --> 01:52:56,670
Adam Curry: interesting. When I
was a kid, when I was 13 or 12.

1615
01:52:57,270 --> 01:52:59,790
I live in a very small village
outside of Amsterdam. And on

1616
01:52:59,790 --> 01:53:06,600
Sundays, they would have a movie
for the kids at like the kind of

1617
01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:10,680
town hall ish was what it was.
And the movies I liked the most

1618
01:53:10,680 --> 01:53:16,440
were Louie, Louie funa Yeah, and
I mean, he had the like the the

1619
01:53:16,440 --> 01:53:21,420
crazy Citro n ds that I think
that thing could fly. If I

1620
01:53:21,420 --> 01:53:24,090
remember if I recall, did you
ever watch any of those movies?

1621
01:53:24,090 --> 01:53:24,330
Louis?

1622
01:53:24,960 --> 01:53:27,870
Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, yeah,
sure. Sure. That very famous,

1623
01:53:27,870 --> 01:53:32,400
probably most famous. funny
movies in France. Yeah.

1624
01:53:33,899 --> 01:53:37,469
Dave Jones: The only a somehow
French is it. Francoise Hardy.

1625
01:53:38,579 --> 01:53:42,359
As she was dubbed in my ear, she
she ended up in my Spotify

1626
01:53:42,359 --> 01:53:45,209
playlist and I'm, I'm a huge
fan. Now. I don't know what

1627
01:53:45,209 --> 01:53:51,629
she's saying. But yeah, we need
you to send me some French

1628
01:53:51,629 --> 01:53:54,449
musicals because my wife has
been learned. She's, oh, she

1629
01:53:54,749 --> 01:53:58,799
speaks French. She speaks French
very well. And she's been

1630
01:53:58,799 --> 01:54:02,039
learning French for years now.
And she's, she's very, she

1631
01:54:02,039 --> 01:54:06,089
speaks it very well. So but she
was just saying today that she

1632
01:54:06,089 --> 01:54:10,619
wants to do a more immersive
French on Fridays. And so she

1633
01:54:10,619 --> 01:54:14,579
wants to basically start
listening to French podcasts.

1634
01:54:14,789 --> 01:54:18,269
Basically everything French on
Fridays so that she can get get

1635
01:54:18,269 --> 01:54:22,379
deeper into it. And need some
musicals for I think she would

1636
01:54:22,379 --> 01:54:22,949
like dicey

1637
01:54:22,950 --> 01:54:26,820
Benjamin Bellamy: Stinky Cheese.
Cheese. Yeah, she got she can

1638
01:54:26,820 --> 01:54:30,450
watch crystal Funabashi movies.
Record good.

1639
01:54:32,340 --> 01:54:35,340
Dave Jones: Let's see we get say
that was Kevin Bay. Thank you.

1640
01:54:35,340 --> 01:54:40,950
Kevin guna Gomez into pod verse
3456 sets congrats with the

1641
01:54:40,950 --> 01:54:44,100
impressive stats guys. Hopefully
we can get over the 69 million

1642
01:54:44,100 --> 01:54:49,890
sets in 2024. Thank you, man,
Franco. Oh, this is Frank. Yeah,

1643
01:54:49,890 --> 01:54:54,120
this is Franco from cast. ematic
10,000 says coming in, cat suck.

1644
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:57,450
You have a chance go see Rocky
Horror Show hands down my

1645
01:54:57,450 --> 01:54:59,490
favorite musical Cats.

1646
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:02,100
Adam Curry: And I hate the
animal cats. He just hates the

1647
01:55:02,100 --> 01:55:03,870
musical Cats. Yes. Yeah,

1648
01:55:03,899 --> 01:55:07,199
Dave Jones: I agree. Thank you,
Frank. Ah, sir Brown of London

1649
01:55:07,259 --> 01:55:12,779
11 948 Mega Israel boost cast
ematic he says definitely saw

1650
01:55:12,779 --> 01:55:18,209
Mamma Mia in the West End to Oh,
yeah. No, I think it originated

1651
01:55:18,209 --> 01:55:22,589
there. Maybe a comic strip
blogger that delimiter 30,000

1652
01:55:22,829 --> 01:55:27,089
Different and he says, How do
you Dave and Adam? Oh boy, hold

1653
01:55:27,089 --> 01:55:30,689
on to your dentures for grumpy
old Ben's podcast. Join our two

1654
01:55:30,689 --> 01:55:34,349
grumpy hosts Darren, the
unemployed O'Neill from the

1655
01:55:34,349 --> 01:55:38,399
windy city of Chicago and Ryan,
the Amazon delivery driver

1656
01:55:38,399 --> 01:55:42,119
bemrose from the land of
caffeine and rain Seattle, as

1657
01:55:42,119 --> 01:55:45,359
they dive headfirst into the
madness of today's world from

1658
01:55:45,359 --> 01:55:48,929
their cozy bunkers. It's like
listening to Statler and Waldorf

1659
01:55:48,929 --> 01:55:53,069
from the Muppets, but with
sarcasm and less felt more info

1660
01:55:53,069 --> 01:55:56,939
www dot grumpy old bands.com Yo
CSB Thank

1661
01:55:56,940 --> 01:55:59,250
Adam Curry: you comics for
Blogger always promoting other

1662
01:55:59,250 --> 01:56:02,100
podcasts that's really
appreciated. That wasn't that

1663
01:56:02,100 --> 01:56:03,240
should have had an add tag

1664
01:56:05,850 --> 01:56:08,880
Dave Jones: add tag next time
CSP funny news your use chat GPT

1665
01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:09,840
to make it whenever

1666
01:56:09,870 --> 01:56:13,530
Adam Curry: whenever people do
like adds in value for value

1667
01:56:13,530 --> 01:56:15,210
notes. It didn't never bothers
me.

1668
01:56:16,290 --> 01:56:19,050
Dave Jones: No, not me. Never.
It's funny because they're fun.

1669
01:56:19,080 --> 01:56:22,980
They take they care. Yeah, they
like it is personal. And

1670
01:56:22,980 --> 01:56:24,600
Adam Curry: we don't have to
wait for the advertising

1671
01:56:24,600 --> 01:56:26,910
company. Just send us a check.
You know, it's immediate.

1672
01:56:28,649 --> 01:56:30,539
Dave Jones: It doesn't have to
it doesn't break in halfway

1673
01:56:30,539 --> 01:56:31,319
through a word.

1674
01:56:31,410 --> 01:56:33,720
Adam Curry: Yes. And we don't
have to have a meeting with the

1675
01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:36,270
client. I love it. It's really
good. It's very good.

1676
01:56:36,300 --> 01:56:39,960
Dave Jones: We got some monthly
see. We got we got Satan's law

1677
01:56:39,960 --> 01:56:43,770
your five $5 from Down Under,
which seems appropriate.

1678
01:56:43,800 --> 01:56:47,550
Adam Curry: I have not listened
to his episode yet. I've been

1679
01:56:47,550 --> 01:56:50,280
resisting I've been resisting
Satan.

1680
01:56:51,030 --> 01:56:53,670
Dave Jones: I just I just love
that Satan's lawyer lives down

1681
01:56:53,670 --> 01:56:59,250
under this. Thanks so much.
Michael Gagan $5 Charles current

1682
01:56:59,250 --> 01:57:03,030
$5 Thank you guys. James
Sullivan. $10 Christopher Raymer

1683
01:57:03,030 --> 01:57:08,250
$10 Sean McCune $20 Think shone.
Cohen glotzbach Which I'm sure

1684
01:57:08,250 --> 01:57:11,700
I've also mispronounced 1000
times please tell me if I'm

1685
01:57:11,700 --> 01:57:16,950
wrong. $5 Kevin Bay $3.81 from
the 2.0 Endowment Fund. Thank

1686
01:57:16,950 --> 01:57:20,640
you. Thank you. And Jordan
Dunnville $10

1687
01:57:21,780 --> 01:57:28,440
Adam Curry: Wow, good reads
Dave. Oh, and right on time

1688
01:57:28,440 --> 01:57:35,550
beautiful. It now being? What is
it? 10? No. 930 in Paris, the

1689
01:57:35,550 --> 01:57:39,840
beautiful lights of Paris over
the sand as lovers stroll by the

1690
01:57:39,840 --> 01:57:43,440
waterway. Can you see any of
that where you are?

1691
01:57:44,159 --> 01:57:47,009
Benjamin Bellamy: No, because I
had to shut down the corroding

1692
01:57:47,009 --> 01:57:50,699
to make sure there is no April.
So I see nothing.

1693
01:57:51,330 --> 01:57:53,640
Dave Jones: Then just cinder
blocks and calling in plaster.

1694
01:57:54,450 --> 01:57:55,050
Benjamin, we

1695
01:57:55,050 --> 01:57:57,150
Adam Curry: appreciate you so
much, man. You've been you've

1696
01:57:57,150 --> 01:58:00,600
been at this very, very early in
the game. Well, as you said, we

1697
01:58:00,600 --> 01:58:04,080
kind of start at the same time.
And you've just been a great

1698
01:58:04,080 --> 01:58:07,200
supporter and we love what you
do with Casta bot. One last

1699
01:58:07,200 --> 01:58:10,170
question I had for you Has there
ever been or have you considered

1700
01:58:10,470 --> 01:58:14,220
Docker rising this and getting
it onto Umbral or my preference

1701
01:58:14,220 --> 01:58:15,090
start nine

1702
01:58:16,320 --> 01:58:21,540
Benjamin Bellamy: it is Deckard.
I think you can install custom

1703
01:58:21,540 --> 01:58:25,140
pod on the you know host Docker
we have a Kubernetes

1704
01:58:26,700 --> 01:58:33,840
installation and Sybil scraped
everything so we have a

1705
01:58:33,840 --> 01:58:38,100
wonderful community doing all
that stuff borrows so we don't

1706
01:58:38,100 --> 01:58:45,300
have to do and regarding the
umbrella I think it's I don't

1707
01:58:45,300 --> 01:58:50,520
know if someone did it but there
there are official Docker images

1708
01:58:50,520 --> 01:58:53,310
so should be pretty easy to do.

1709
01:58:53,880 --> 01:58:57,210
Adam Curry: If anyone out there
as it knows what to do, I mean

1710
01:58:57,210 --> 01:59:01,200
if you start nine I would love
to have cast the pot and start

1711
01:59:01,200 --> 01:59:05,310
nine because they're going to do
open networking soon so you

1712
01:59:05,310 --> 01:59:09,300
won't have to deal with just Tor
and I and I I would love to try

1713
01:59:09,300 --> 01:59:11,550
that out here at home so if
anyone wants to take that

1714
01:59:11,550 --> 01:59:13,980
Dockerized stuff and package it
up which is a little bit beyond

1715
01:59:13,980 --> 01:59:16,980
my paygrade I think it'd be
great I will promote it that's

1716
01:59:16,980 --> 01:59:17,490
for sure.

1717
01:59:17,910 --> 01:59:21,360
Dave Jones: Cast a pod on our on
the on the on the umbrella or

1718
01:59:21,360 --> 01:59:24,780
the start nine plus IPFS
podcasting for distribution

1719
01:59:24,780 --> 01:59:27,300
Adam Curry: really a great win,
win win win it will be

1720
01:59:27,300 --> 01:59:29,130
phenomenal. Absolutely.

1721
01:59:29,130 --> 01:59:32,280
Benjamin Bellamy: PFS won't be
that easy. On the other hand,

1722
01:59:32,340 --> 01:59:32,670
yeah,

1723
01:59:32,730 --> 01:59:34,770
Adam Curry: we already have IPFS
podcasting.

1724
01:59:35,460 --> 01:59:37,020
Dave Jones: It already works you
know Yeah, so

1725
01:59:37,050 --> 01:59:37,830
Adam Curry: where are you been?
Man

1726
01:59:43,109 --> 01:59:47,099
Dave Jones: we got it. Have you
Yeah, have you seen that working

1727
01:59:47,099 --> 01:59:47,429
been?

1728
01:59:49,979 --> 01:59:51,209
Benjamin Bellamy: I had a quick
look.

1729
01:59:52,110 --> 01:59:54,930
Dave Jones: Yeah, you check it
out. It's it's good but like for

1730
01:59:55,470 --> 01:59:58,740
for somebody who's hosting out
of their house and can't afford

1731
01:59:59,070 --> 02:00:03,150
it would just fall down on the,
you know, the bandwidth demand.

1732
02:00:03,600 --> 02:00:06,300
That's, that's a great solution.
Yeah.

1733
02:00:07,649 --> 02:00:13,229
Benjamin Bellamy: The thing is,
it requires quite a bunch of

1734
02:00:13,259 --> 02:00:19,559
refactoring castparts which is
why we had a deeper look into

1735
02:00:19,559 --> 02:00:20,369
that yet.

1736
02:00:21,060 --> 02:00:22,890
Dave Jones: So with Pell You
mean for you mean to put the

1737
02:00:22,890 --> 02:00:29,040
prefix in? Yeah. Oh, I see what
you mean. Okay. Yeah. That makes

1738
02:00:29,040 --> 02:00:31,890
it well, I guess the Yeah.
Because you're, you're uploading

1739
02:00:31,890 --> 02:00:35,250
directly, okay. Yes. What you
make is you'd have to, you'd

1740
02:00:35,250 --> 02:00:39,270
have to put the D enclosure on a
CDN and then put the prefix in.

1741
02:00:39,300 --> 02:00:40,440
Yeah, we'd have

1742
02:00:40,439 --> 02:00:44,459
Benjamin Bellamy: to change some
stuff. First. Yeah. But we'll

1743
02:00:44,459 --> 02:00:45,089
get there.

1744
02:00:45,600 --> 02:00:47,970
Adam Curry: No doubt. I mean,
this is what's so beautiful.

1745
02:00:47,970 --> 02:00:50,610
It's like there's no rush. We'll
get there. When we get there.

1746
02:00:50,640 --> 02:00:54,030
The podcast is gonna be around
for a long after we're gone.

1747
02:00:54,060 --> 02:00:57,600
That's the part that I love,
love knowing. And

1748
02:00:57,600 --> 02:01:00,480
Dave Jones: don't ever feel bad
or apologize for having a long

1749
02:01:00,480 --> 02:01:03,300
to do list. Because if your to
do list is too short, that's

1750
02:01:03,300 --> 02:01:04,050
when you burn out.

1751
02:01:06,600 --> 02:01:08,400
Adam Curry: All right,
gentlemen, Benjamin. Thank you

1752
02:01:08,400 --> 02:01:09,810
very much. We appreciate you.

1753
02:01:10,440 --> 02:01:12,540
Benjamin Bellamy: Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. I'd like

1754
02:01:12,540 --> 02:01:16,710
to add two things. If, of
course, follow me of course.

1755
02:01:17,370 --> 02:01:21,390
First, there's one subject that
we couldn't talk about is the

1756
02:01:21,390 --> 02:01:25,260
podcasting 2.0 logo, so we'll
have to do that some other time.

1757
02:01:26,340 --> 02:01:31,800
Because Daniel JD always asked
me if I could have a look and

1758
02:01:31,800 --> 02:01:35,820
make a nice logo for this. I
don't know if you could see the

1759
02:01:35,820 --> 02:01:46,620
thread on Mastodon I have not
Yeah. And last I do eat snails

1760
02:01:46,710 --> 02:01:47,610
and frogs

1761
02:01:50,670 --> 02:01:52,470
Adam Curry: you know what we
actually eat snails here in

1762
02:01:52,470 --> 02:01:57,120
Texas. It a Bavarian restaurant
Believe it or not. So I'm with

1763
02:01:57,120 --> 02:02:00,270
you on that. I'd like to ask our
go the frog we've

1764
02:02:00,270 --> 02:02:03,660
Dave Jones: been we've been in
frogs and Alabama Yeah. Before a

1765
02:02:03,660 --> 02:02:04,290
year before

1766
02:02:04,290 --> 02:02:06,000
Adam Curry: France Yes. Exactly.
Oh

1767
02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:10,290
Dave Jones: yeah. With frog frog
gig frog Gagan is a Do you know

1768
02:02:10,290 --> 02:02:16,410
frog Gagan? Do you know that bit
now? Frog gigging is you take a

1769
02:02:16,410 --> 02:02:20,880
little it's like a spear and it
has like a trident on the end of

1770
02:02:20,880 --> 02:02:25,710
it with three prongs. Yeah, you
get frog gig and then you get

1771
02:02:25,710 --> 02:02:29,190
you go and you just pop one of
them in great and throw them all

1772
02:02:29,190 --> 02:02:31,170
in a bucket and then you come
back and cut their legs off and

1773
02:02:31,170 --> 02:02:31,500
eat them.

1774
02:02:32,640 --> 02:02:38,460
Adam Curry: See See we're not
barbarians here. No. I knew that

1775
02:02:38,490 --> 02:02:42,690
we get we eat snails we eat frog
we also eat squirrels. But

1776
02:02:42,690 --> 02:02:47,460
that's maybe for the foreign for
another another episode. We have

1777
02:02:47,460 --> 02:02:51,420
been known to eat a squirrel or
two roadkill. Roadkill frog

1778
02:02:51,420 --> 02:02:54,060
Gigan Alright everybody. Thank
you so much, brother, Dave.

1779
02:02:54,060 --> 02:02:57,570
Thank you have a great weekend,
my brother and don't worry about

1780
02:02:57,570 --> 02:03:02,220
that to do list. I'll see you
guys okay. Viva la que viva la

1781
02:03:02,220 --> 02:03:06,060
podcast. Thank you very much
Benjamin. We love you, man. And

1782
02:03:06,060 --> 02:03:09,300
of you too. Thank you very much
to everybody in the chat room,

1783
02:03:09,930 --> 02:03:12,810
which is known as the boardroom
we convert it. We'll be back

1784
02:03:12,810 --> 02:03:16,500
next week with another episode
of podcasting 2.0.

1785
02:03:33,000 --> 02:03:37,560
Unknown: You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcasts

1786
02:03:37,590 --> 02:03:40,320
index.com. For more information,

1787
02:03:40,740 --> 02:03:41,700
go podcast.

1788
02:03:43,170 --> 02:03:45,480
Benjamin Bellamy: James Cridland
will get you