Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for March 1 2024, episode 169 We've
got Wi Fi and web apps. Well, hello, everybody. Welcome once
again to this Friday. That means it's time for an official board
meeting. That's right. Podcasting. 2.0 It's not just
2.0 is all podcasting. It all goes down here we tell you
what's going on. Podcast. index.org podcasting to.org
podcast index dot social. Yes. It's the boardroom that actually
replies to your bootstraps. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the only man you want
in your life for those warm migration mornings. Say hello to
my friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Day
Dave Jones: It's always great to have a log of events that tell
you at the exact same timestamp server booted server did not
boot like
Adam Curry: that must have been scary this morning when that
happened. Well,
Dave Jones: so this has been coming for a while the live
migration of our main database it's the biggest VM we have been
coming for a while so they give what they do is they give you a
heads up like heads up. We're gonna live
Adam Curry: literally like heads up heads up now. Yeah, bring it
bring it boys heads up. Yeah, that that quick, okay, I got
you. We're gonna
Dave Jones: live migrate your this, this instance. And I look
at the instance name I'm like, Oh crap, that database. We're
gonna live migrate this on March the first. And if at anytime
before then it when you feel Froggy. You can enter the live
migration the excuse me the warm migration queue yourself. You
can you can choose to enter the queue. If you don't by this
time, on this day, March 1, you're we're going to do we're
just going to do it for you. And so no, no, of course, I've been
putting this off. And lucky and good
Adam Curry: for how long for how long? Have you been putting it
off?
Dave Jones: Oh, two weeks, two weeks. And then I was like in
now get a notice yesterday, you got 15 hours left.
Adam Curry: So what happens if you don't comply? Yeah, they
just want they
Dave Jones: just do it for you. And you get what you get. I
mean, like you don't, you're not you're not aware. I could have
gone to sleep last night. And if it happened to mill the night,
they would have just done it and it would have been like, Okay,
well, I hope it works. So I woke up this morning, I had like an
hour left before entering the queue. And so I was like, Well,
I was lit I was literally sitting on the toilet with the
scroll with the, with
Adam Curry: the, with the Doom scroller, the scroller. Yeah.
Dave Jones: And I was like, well, let's just, let's just rip
the cord off this thing. Let's just see how this happens. And
I'm like, and I log into Linode on the screw on the toilet
scroller and hit migrate. And man's
Adam Curry: like you couldn't even head over to command line.
If you wanted to know
Dave Jones: that. We'll see. I grabbed the Mac. As soon as I
woke up this morning, I grabbed my laptop. And it was out of
battery. And so yeah, and I was like, Well, I would have liked
to have done this from a laptop. But I'll just, I'll just do it
later. And then I'm on the toilet scroller and I'm looking
at as like you have an hour left. And I'm like, crap. Well,
Adam Curry: oh, well, literally crap just yet.
Dave Jones: Okay, well, log in from Linode on safari, mobile.
And, and it's hit and I was like, well, let's just do it.
What the heck, yo, yo, yo, lo. And it worked. And so yeah, so I
hit it. And then I was like, Well, you know, is probably got
to, I'm assuming this. Okay, this is a they're calling it a
warm migration. So I'm assuming that this is similar in this has
to be similar in some kind of something.
Adam Curry: It sounds geeky. I just the warm migration just
sounds it doesn't sound great. It's like, you know, like, like
a warm dish rag or something. You know, luke warm, wet dish
rag in your face in the morning. A warm migration? I don't like
the term. It's not great marketing. What
Dave Jones: is the it's? It's, it's, it's not a migrant. It's a
it's a traveler. Right. So warm travel
Adam Curry: newcomer a newcomer
Dave Jones: a warm newcomer, yes. Moist migration.
That, so I'm assuming that this technology this warm migration
technology is similar to VMware. I'm thinking I think that VMware
may have invented this. So here's what you surprise me.
Yeah, here's the basics, is you. You have you have a virtual
machine and the virtual machine Does it copies the disk for a
virtual machine you have. You have the basically the RAM, you
have the memory state, and then you have the disk state. So it
starts, it takes a snapshot, copies all of the disk over to
the over to the other host, then copies all of the memory over to
the other host, then does what they call a query essence. Or,
or I stun, they'll they'll stun the server, which means pause
it. Copy the delta of memory and the delta of disks that has
changed since the stunt since the snapshot. And then and then
flip the processing power from one host to the other because
this is all shared storage on Right.
Adam Curry: Right. And this should end the show this should
happen within what 15 seconds. Is that the idea? Well,
Dave Jones: on a on a local VMware system, I mean, this is
it's almost instantaneous. It's microseconds, right? Just not
market, it's milliseconds, the stun may may take less than one
second, that users don't even know that any of this is
happening. But they're moving from data center to data
centers. So this is a lot
Adam Curry: longer. Yeah. And does DNS come into play with all
this as well?
Dave Jones: I don't think so. No, I think they I think their
DNS, they got a backhaul between their their data centers. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. So that when you whenever you when I see a stun,
that's gonna take up to a minute, I'm like, Oh, that's not
great. Right. You know, so I was, you know, I was waiting on
this thing to start. And I thought, well, you know, I
better just, it would probably be great if there was not very
many riots going on in the database, because that's, that's
just, you're asking for more failure. If you're in there's
heavy writes all the time on our database. Yeah. It's very write
heavy because of the amount of fees we're aggregating. I
Adam Curry: mean, when it comes to writing, we're heavy, heavy
writing. Heavy, heavy, heavy writing. Yes.
Dave Jones: And so just shut down. All the aggregators shut
down the pod paying watcher, all that kind of stuff. And like,
okay, radio silence on the rights. And then wait and hope
and just cross your fingers. And then it and then John Spurlock
posted, okay. It's days, like, you know, API errors now.
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Expected. Yeah, for a minute or so. Yeah.
And,
Dave Jones: um, as I go in, I'm like, check the log, and I'm
still on the toilet. So I check the log. And I'm like, it
because now I'm enraptured by this thing. I can't, you know, I
can't get off the pot. So I'm like, Well, I look at I look at
the log, and it says, You can't it says a server is a server
booted. But then right after that, it says, server did not
boot or server failed to boot. Oh, crap. Like, oh, man, now I'm
gonna have to, I'm gonna have to, like, get up. And so then,
and then I look but I look at the status and it says the VM is
running. Okay. And then, like, we got check the side I flipped
over. Besides working API looks like it's working like I guess
we're good. And then in then, Gene been gene livermush says,
he's like, oh, yeah, I have had the same thing happen to me. And
they Atlanta data's data center, and it told me the same thing.
I'm like, Oh, come on. Linode. do better than this. Anyway,
that's, that was my toilet adventure for this morning.
Adam Curry: Well, and here's my question. Does your wife like
mine? Sometimes knock on the door and go, What are you doing
in there? You forget that.
Dave Jones: You've been in there a long time ago. migrator
server.
Adam Curry: That's what you're calling it, huh? From now on,
David, gotta go migrator server. All right. I'm writing that
down. This is this is our new code.
Dave Jones: On the command line.
Adam Curry: Hey, before we we got a lot going on the board
meeting today. Hello, boardroom and I see everybody there. I TBR
rest in peace. Bob Heil. He passed away today. Oh, this is
shame from Bob Heil. And I would say that in the very early days
of podcasting, everybody This was this was before the before
the SMB seven. Everybody had to have a Heil. Pr 40 The high LP I
still have one. In fact it's hooked up. A Tina uses that one
sounds great on her voice. And it really Yeah. And Bob Heil
you. He was famous for ham radio microphones and headphones, and
did a lot of broadcast stuff. And so he passed away he said
what we call SK silence a shame silent key. Yes. So
Dave Jones: that's that's the the PR 40 That's, that's The MR
great mic is not a mic a lot of people can use in their house
though is it?
Adam Curry: No yeah it is. No, it's a it's a splitter. It's a
top end splitter
Dave Jones: doesn't it just pick up everything? Oh world? No,
Adam Curry: no, no, no. In fact I'll open right now let me see
if I open it up over here. Let's see what happens it's here it's
wide open and I'll I'll hit it there. No, you don't hear
anything. Oh,
Dave Jones: I thought it was a cardioid I thought it was like a
like a not a cardio like a ribbon mic. No,
Adam Curry: no, no, this is spinner it's a front end spitter
you know even has a people put a you know, it has a little
attachment for a windscreen but I've never used the windscreen
with it. It's great. It's a great mic.
Dave Jones: Okay. I thought Yeah, I thought it was too noisy
for normal normal person.
Adam Curry: And and then the I was very excited today by super
excited I could not believe how excited asked me how excited I
was.
Dave Jones: How excited were you now I
Adam Curry: was super duper excited.
Dave Jones: We're getting I get I get the feel for this. Yes.
Starting to understand.
Adam Curry: Tony Cavanna I'm Tony has a podcast index dot
social idea. I'm not sure where where Tony comes from or what
Tony does. Tony see. Tony see. Yeah, what does Tony see do? I
know.
Dave Jones: I don't know. I follow him on on Mastodon and
I've never fully understood what he does. Well, he has
Adam Curry: an account on our server. And what he has done is
he discovered that rumbled video platform rumble now has RSS
feeds with mp4 enclosures.
Dave Jones: This was this announced anywhere well,
Adam Curry: so I immediately texted him Moe because I know
Moe mirrors his stuff to rumble because he's a YouTube guy
still, he's waiting. And he says no, they he says I received an
email from them a couple of weeks ago. So apparently if you
go into I don't have a rumble account but if you go into your
rumble account and you go into the rumble studio I don't know
if you can just get the URL from there or if you have to enable
it but I without without asking him I added Tony C's rumble fee
to the to the index and was able to pull it right up on podcast
Guru video works perfectly. I mean this nice this is a this is
a YouTube killer.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Oh for sure.
Adam Curry: Pod verse plays video pod verse plays video cue
I
Dave Jones: mean Apple karaoke video. Yeah, isn't Do you know,
but here's the cool
Adam Curry: thing with the with the podcast or wallet or one of
the partner apps. You can now do value for value video. Oh, yeah.
Right through rumble. I mean this this is this blows my mind.
I can't believe they did this. This is exactly what YouTube
should be doing.
Dave Jones: YouTube's doing the opposite their RSS feeds away.
They're
Adam Curry: sucking them in and chopping them up their their
teeth are dashing on the RSS feeds. This is I've been? I'm
just blown away by it. I don't understand. I mean, I understand
what they've done. But I don't know what their business their
public companies. I don't know what their business model is. I
have no idea how that works. But go rumble.
Dave Jones: I don't know what their business model is either.
I mean, how do they make money? Well, they
Adam Curry: went public and everyone got a whole bunch of
money and their happiness. I don't think they can't right
now. They bought locals. I believe they acquired locals.
And I think it's advertising I think they have advertising on
on the website. But I revenue share type thing with the likely
I mean doesn't rumble has. Russell Brand has a lot of
pretty big names they brought over to their platform, so
they're paying people to do something.
Dave Jones: And so Glenn Greenwald went to rumble. Yep,
they left and went to locals and then local, local. Yeah,
exactly.
Adam Curry: He's back with rumble. But that's a big deal. I
mean, then that so Mo's like Okay, let's get it going. And I
wonder how they publish their live stuff. I'm sure they're not
doing a lit tag obviously.
Dave Jones: Have you looked at the feed like if you looked at
the XML of the feed I have? Is it does it deliver anything
interesting at the top of itself?
Adam Curry: I did not look for declarations. I don't know if it
declared a gender. Let me see.
Dave Jones: This is what is his what is his his thing named Tony
see, well, he
Adam Curry: posted the link on on the mastodon so and he is he
or is what is he? He's Tony. Where is he? He's
Dave Jones: rock flux on the
Adam Curry: rock flux rownum nuoc flux, Roc
Dave Jones: KFLU X.
Adam Curry: Yeah, let me see. I know I replied to him. So let me
see if I can find it. Various rock flux. I got the I got flux
you got the feed.
Dave Jones: I got to feed. Let's see what else you got to see you
got
Adam Curry: the fee you it's been a it's a huge
Dave Jones: layers. It declares iTunes namespace not podcasting.
Not podcast namespace so that's there doesn't need to stay this
number needs
Adam Curry: to change but you know what, there's someone
inside rumble who has who switched on and has somehow I
don't think management went you know we need to have RSS feeds
Dave Jones: Yeah That wasn't a management issue that was not a
top down
Adam Curry: not thinking that so it was yeah so it's very simple
it's just got the basics, but maybe it wasn't a decision I
mean they announced it in their in their email so boy let's find
out who's who's working over that rumble and let's see if we
can get him to declare some namespace stuff.
Dave Jones: Yeah, there's gotta be a sysadmin that can drop that
in the in the in the header.
Adam Curry: There's always a dude named Ben somewhere. You
can talk to
Dave Jones: any caravan? Yeah,
Adam Curry: I just think that's a caravan or Cavanna I thought
was Cara Cavanna is a caravan caravan.
Dave Jones: Caravan caravan Tony Tony caravan caravan.
Adam Curry: I'm break sided by that.
Dave Jones: There's some breaking news. Looks like John
Spurlock just posted that Apple is walking back the decision to
kill PW A's
Adam Curry: I can hear Sam Sethi pouring another glass of wine.
Yeah.
Dave Jones: He got he caught spicy. COVID Evidently because
this is fired up. Taylor Swift. COVID. So what do you said?
Yeah, yeah, he was fired up about like this. I like spicy.
Sam. That was a that was a great read.
Adam Curry: Why? Why were they going to I don't never
understood why they were going to kill off PW A's.
Dave Jones: I don't know if they fully didn't I don't think they
ever said. I mean, people were just trying to infer that I
don't think they ever actually said
Adam Curry: the thing that that makes me laugh is you know, so
we get spicy. Sam, he's all pissed off about the three $2
trillion company, bro, we knew this was day was coming. When
Apple opened the app store. We knew this day was coming. We
knew it. I mean, these days would be here proprietary app
stores? It's like, really? Are we surprised?
Dave Jones: Yeah, that I've avoided the whole apple EU
thing, because it's just the whole thing is a complete joke.
It's a complete joke that I mean, like, the, I don't know,
if you've seen the calculators, you know, they they charge and
they charge a per user amount. If you have an alternate app
store, they charge a per user install fee of like a certain
number of cents per user. And so if you add it up, even if you
had, if you had a million users of your app, even if they never
launched it, it would cost you money, millions of dollars a
year. Oh,
Adam Curry: is this a standard thing? We don't have to talk
about it. I don't care. Why No, it's all things. When I met
Steve Jobs, his whole idea was that the iPhone was the iPod
Touch. And it will be Wi Fi only and web apps. That was his idea.
He told me web apps, he never wanted to do an app store. Now
I'm not going to say that was a bad idea. business wise, it was
genius. But that was always the plan was white, no snow carrier,
Wi Fi and web apps, which is another great show title.
Dave Jones: In the beginning. He was all big on on web apps. And
he wanted to it mean honestly, he did as much the iPhone did as
much to push html5 as as Chrome or anything because he you know,
he wrote the famous letter killing flat or you know, like,
opposing flash
Adam Curry: virus. I remember that. It was It honestly, it
was. It was a real problem. And he wanted he
Dave Jones: wanted to kill flash and move everything out mobile
Safari went in both feet with a with html5. Yeah, I mean, I
think I think you can lay the progress of html5 and standard
web standards. I think you could say make a good argument that
that was as much Apple's mobile Safari as it was Chrome. I'm
there
Adam Curry: I'm there. And then they killed him and then that
was the end of all the good stuff. Yeah.
Dave Jones: This is an add on Abra brought a couple of clips
are now brought a clip. Yeah, I think I brought a clip and I
forgot what you brought a
Adam Curry: clip and an ISO. Yeah, okay.
Dave Jones: I want to I think this is important is speaking of
pod news. I think this clip From. So Paul throt needs he
does Windows weekly. But he also does another podcast, which is
called first ring daily.
Adam Curry: What's it called?
Dave Jones: Don't watch it. It's called first ring daily first
ring Mimbres Ring Ring. First ring is ring daily. It's an as a
reference to the old windows 10 initial idea of when they first
released Windows 10. They were going to move away from from
Windows Update Style releases that everybody got to something
called rains update rain.
Adam Curry: I didn't I don't even know about this. Yeah,
Dave Jones: it's it's a little short lived. It was maybe a year
or two, that they were going to do these these update rings. And
you can define different computers and put them in
different rings.
Adam Curry: Oh, but don't computers do that. Now they look
for something on your network and the update it from another
computer. Yeah,
Dave Jones: that's peer to peer update sharing. But this was
this was like, Okay, I want to have this group of people. And
they're going to be in in the beta ring. And this group
Adam Curry: is like an admin nightmare. Oh,
Dave Jones: it will Yes, it doesn't exist anymore. For this
reason, it was a complete chaos. So beware that. So he does this
show. And it's like 15 minutes in the morning, every morning
during the week. So he starts talking about a something that
happened to him with AI was one of these AI aggregators got a
hold of his content. And it's the clips a little it's a little
longer than I was wanting it today. But I think it's worth
listening to.
Unknown: Someone emailed me from the Netherlands and said, Hey, I
don't know if you know this, but you're the top story, your top
publications cited for this particular topic. And the topic
was Mozilla reorganizing around Firefox and AI. And I obviously,
as a content creator, I've sort of thought about this stuff. I
you know, wonder, you know, you don't know, usually that you're
getting sucked into AIS, whatever. But anyway, it's these
things called perplexity AI, they, they actually have a, you
know, one of the beautiful, sorry, to segue here a little
bit, but one of the beautiful complaints, or whatever about
the New York Times suing open AI was that it's not like anyone's
ever going to use open AI to read the New York Times. And I
was like, not maybe the second, but it's not hard to imagine
this coming. So this particular it's perplexity, I think it's
perplexity to AI. They actually have a newsfeed. And this is
where my thing came from. And it was just a, you, you know, goes
out and grabs seven or eight sources, close together, we're
rewarding. And then here's your topic. So there were seven,
there was eight, eight paragraphs in the story, seven
publications cited mine constituted the first few
paragraphs, they didn't even mix and match throughout the story.
They just like, Let's steal from here, here. We'll steal from
here here, you know. And all they did was reword two
paragraphs of my story, and some of it was quotes from Mozilla.
So they intermingled what I had written. It was it was not like,
you know, in the sense that you could find similes for words and
reward of a sentence. I guess that's technically a
transformation of some kind. But it's also the laziest thriftiest
version of transformation. And, you know, yeah, I guess they
cited me but they cited me with a one pixel high number down in
the corner. And no one would ever go to that publication,
because why bother? You just got a good summary of it right
there. You know, so how do I feel about this? I don't know.
But this is the this is the sad future. Yeah. And we keep
talking about how fast everything's happening. We know
this. It's like, knowing something is coming is one
thing, but then kind of seeing it actually happen so quickly is
like, I don't know it's a little it's weird. Whoo.
Dave Jones: That's like, this is gonna happen to pod news.
Adam Curry: How's it gonna happen? Every
Dave Jones: sounds profitable. Yeah. To all the to the podcasts
newsletters. They're these, these aggregate these LLM
aggregators are going to start sucking everybody's content in
and they're going to just reword it, and post it right back out.
And you get nothing.
Adam Curry: That's the Silicon Valley Way. Give us all your
creativity and we'll give you let me see nothing.
Dave Jones: In his in his sucks. I mean, I hate it for because
that's the dirty secret of all of this is that it none of these
LLM is get trained without content. And where does the
content come from?
Adam Curry: Well read. It's about read. It's about to
license its content to Google for this very reason.
Dave Jones: To go to Google, they're making they're doing a
deal. Yeah. And open AI is getting sued by everybody. Now.
The New York Times thing opened the floodgates now everybody's
jumping in thing
Adam Curry: that bothers me I mean, AI first of all, what is
AI? You know, I see a lot of stuff that just an algorithm
which is called AI. Alright this fine be writing your show notes
and making your chapters Yeah, that's a fine use. That's okay.
Don't use it for searching anything I've been the other
day. I wanted to look up the name of the hotel that we stayed
in during the Moscow music Peace Festival in 1989. And, and I
tried two different AI's and they both spit back very
resignedly. Oh, it's this hotel. Here's a picture. I'm like,
Nope, that's not it. And you say nope, that's not it. Oh, I'm
sorry. This is it. I'm like, Okay. What am I supposed to
believe? No, that's not it either. Because I remember what
the hotel looked like. So this is all it's just all crap. It's,
it's great for images and you know, for prompts, jockeys,
prompts, jockeys, there you go prompt Joe. That's a good one.
PJ. There you go. I'm CJ fish. What's your drama PJ? I'm a
prompt jockey. Yeah.
Dave Jones: You know, I don't know if you just saw the debut
article about Yeah, no, I got the clip and I just made up all
kinds of stuff.
Adam Curry: You want to hear the clip?
Dave Jones: You got to clip Yeah.
Adam Curry: Yeah, Harry's. This is it.
Unknown: Last week, Google's much ballyhooed, new AI tool.
Gemini became a national punch line. Company engineers built an
AI that apparently couldn't or wouldn't draw white faces,
resulting in images like Pope Viking in 1943 German soldier
are reimagined as preposterous ly I inspired reboots, I asked
Gemini about controversies involving various famous
politicians. I don't know how to answer that I kept saying, when
I asked the same question about myself, it sped out a long list
of episodes, but articles with titles like the great California
Water heist, and Glenn Beck's war on comedy to describe racist
remarks. I apparently made an accusations of anti semitism
after I supposedly described Nestle executives as having
noses like giant penises. None of this ever happened. I never
wrote any of those articles. They don't exist. Google
explained. Gemini is a creativity tool and may not
always be accurate. Just think Gemini shows the awesome
dystopian possibilities of AI. Forget the funny historical
errors, it creates instant deep fake compromised about real
people like me, and probably like you.
Adam Curry: And then this boots on the ground email that I
shared this with you and and I shared an AI reshard
anonymously. I work at Google and I work on Gemini. In any
case, you're wondering how Gemini produces black
revolutionary war generals and other quote, diverse results.
It's through a layer that rewrites your query. If you
write quote, show me pictures of Vikings, it will be rewritten as
quote, show me a diverse picture of Vikings, including a black
male in a wheelchair. This is he says this is an actual example I
verified via internal tooling. I verified this person. And they
are who they say they are inside Google. And you said that you
didn't you weren't surprised by this at all, that there's
probably a lot of query rewriting going on?
Dave Jones: Oh, for sure. I mean, that's how you would just
thinking as a sysadmin. On it, that's how you that's the layer
you would do that at? You would not? Because that's what you
would do you would take because that's what less what we're used
to it with computer. With systems like this. We're used to
taking what the user gives you. And then you see that there's a
there's a problem, like in this case, it's some sort of social
problem they're trying to they're trying to solve. But,
you know, it could be even just a pure technical problem. You
just take their input, and you're like, Oh, I see what you
wrote. But that's not going to be the thing. That's not wait.
You don't understand the way that this system stupid, you're
stupid
Adam Curry: human. I'm AI, I'm a. So these are all little AI
rules that have to be written? Well, let's listen. Let's go
back to less general
Dave Jones: munging is where you just use search munging. You
know, better, you know better what the system is wanting. So
you just convert what they typed into something that the system
wants? Wow, yeah, that's exactly where you would do that.
Somehow,
Adam Curry: I think I'm not quite sure why. But I think RSS
has a much bigger future than we even realize, for distribution
of content. Now, of course, you know, AI can hook up to an RSS
feed and suck everything in. But the direct connection between a
publisher and an end user is so valuable, and I completely
rescind on my misunderstanding of medium equals blog. Because I
think this is going to be so so much bigger than we even
realize. There's reasons why why RSS feeds keep popping up. It's
just it makes sense. It's the distribution model of the
future.
Dave Jones: And the past and the past is the past. Yes. But now,
let me email like email as a lesson. This is, you know, I
don't know why this kind of popped into my head. I think
it's because because email has been such an irritation for me
this week. Email is a lesson about what technology does to
us. Like I had a, I had a conversation with my wife last
night about this, you know, can I come in and I get the mail out
of the mailbox? When I get home from the office, grab the mail
in the mailbox, there's about five things in there. I flip,
flip through them these these three things are junk, throw
them in the trash. This thing is something I need this letter
for,
Adam Curry: does it piss you off that you get offers for credit
cards that you already have a credit card for?
Dave Jones: I've never understood that. Yeah. And, and,
and credit, I mean, like the credit card offers just every
day is because every but but I can sort that in and triage my
my physical mail in about 35 seconds. And but in so then
somebody thought, well, email is so much Think of how much more
efficient This is. Email is immediate. I was because, well,
the email is way, way worse. What I want on a day, what I
find myself wanting on a daily basis is for people to only be
in touch with me via phone calls and physical mail. Because email
made every this whole concept of messaging quote unquote, superb
which email is why it's a horrible invention. It's
horrible. So when technology comes up with these great things
that are going to make your life quote easy or better or more
efficient, be very scared.
Adam Curry: Well, all I know is Google's Google claim to be the
AI guys, they've got Gemini, the follow up to barf. And they've
got Gmail, if you want to impress me make Gmail better
make the AI learn my habits, what I find really important,
and treat pre triage it for me and then remind me of stuff that
I've pushed to the bottom. That would be impressive, but that's
not going to happen. Because it's not AI. It's not artificial
intelligence. It's large language models running on
expensive hardware. They have no way to monetize. But,
Dave Jones: you know, the Google search is not it's still it's
okay. Google search, still profit are still carries the
same sense that it used to at the very beginning. Yeah. Which
was ranked PageRank PageRank incoming links. And that's still
there. I mean, don't get me wrong, that is still there. But
it's it's still living off that sort of first initial idea. But
that's really not what the main driver of that is and hasn't
been for a very long time. Yeah, Google search is highly
constructed by Google themselves. Yeah. And
Adam Curry: they're rewriting your queries probably.
Dave Jones: Oh, absolutely. They are there they are their rewrite
there. Do you remember the whole thing with the internal
documents came out? And they had to use terms nudging from these?
Sure. So of course, they're doing that. But then, but really
what? The big switch started to change back when Google
introduced Webmaster Tools. Do you remember that? Yeah, I do. I
mean, it's still around when this got a different name now.
But the Webmaster Tools was where you could you as the owner
of a website could go in and tell Google about the structure?
Yeah. And how to treat your website or design millions of
your site. Your sitemap? Yeah. Millions of people did this. Now
Google has this deep understanding of the structure
of millions of websites in a way that would have been impossible
with organic search. Yeah, why they everybody else sucks
compared to them being this way. And they're gonna, in the
problem with AI with his LLM firms, is that they don't have
that sort of model. They can stick on top in order to
restructure the results and get rid of the stuff they don't want
you to see. Right? They're having to just rewrite language
searches into other things, and it makes it come out. All weird,
like the Gemini, but
Adam Curry: also this this is okay. Two things core. First of
all, I've been using C or X and G more often than I even ever
thought I would you know, C or x ng familiar with this as like a
medicine. Yeah, runs on the Start nine. And you can
configure it to a whole bunch of different search engines. And
you can configure importance of results. And it's just it's been
it's been very, very accurate for me, I really like it a lot.
We have raised a generation of young people, then then maybe a
generation half, almost two generations on search. And the
goal is information. Now, it's like a I'll search Yelp, I'll
search this and, and this is not good. There's the people aren't
thinking anymore. They're not researching. They're not using
any critical skills. It's just search gimme information. Does
that make any sense? We have not. Yeah, we have not built up
minds who are inquisitive. You know, think beyond what the
search information is. Just okay. That's it. That's and we
and the reason is, you know, we need to trick you into into ads
into buying stuff. It's, it's very bad.
Dave Jones: As a young IT guys that they, like, if you took if
you take Google away from them, they can't, they literally
cannot do they're dead. They're dead, then they have no basic
troubleshooting skills. And you know, like Google, Google is,
for an for an IT person. Google is a fallback, where you're
like, Okay, look, none of the things I'm doing makes any
sense. This must be a bug. I need to look and see if other
people have experienced this bug. Yeah. It's it's a last step
in the chain. Not the first step. But it's like, okay, no
problem that presents itself. And it's like, you know,
immediately start typing, trying to find it. It's like, No, this
is this is wrong. This is backwards.
Adam Curry: Let's bring in our guests who has been waiting very
patiently and probably wants to weigh in on at least some of
these topics. He is one of the premier podcasts and 2.0 app
developers. He is up late. Well, it's not all that late. I mean,
he's young, so it should be able to stay up very, very late. Just
launched fountain radio, very exciting developments, and along
with the 1.0 version of fountain fountain.fm. We would like to
welcome into the boardroom v one the only Oscar Marais.
Oscar Merry: Hello, guys,
Adam Curry: how's it going? Hey, Oscar. Sorry,
Dave Jones: sorry, to start to roll known and live you in the
lobby for so long. We got on a roll.
Oscar Merry: I enjoyed it.
Adam Curry: Oscar, it's been a while.
Oscar Merry: It has Yeah, it's been I can't remember how long
it's been. But it feels like we would do a bit of a catch up. So
glad to be on. Thank you so much. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I know the last time you and I have had, you know,
some some chat message things over over the past year or two.
You know, especially with the the music stuff that's come in.
I mean, you want to give us a little ketchup on where you are
with with fountain which is it was a whole new release. And
just, you know, tell us what you've been doing. And by the
way, is it still just you just two guys? Is that which fountain
still is?
Oscar Merry: Yeah, so I'll give you a bit of a kind of update of
the last six months. We're actually a team of four now. And
another developer Tom. So it's me and Tom who work on the act
together. And we've got a part time customer support person as
well, who helps us because we've actually had over 10,000
customer support tickets, if you'd believe that number. Wow.
Adam Curry: And what is the what is the top? The top problem
people have? Is it really something stupid?
Oscar Merry: Know, it's all you know, totally valid feedback.
But it's always stuff to do with, you know, importing OPML
specific app that has slightly malformed OPML on or malformed
but just slightly different structure or, you know,
automatic downloads not working on a particular device type that
we then have to go and look into or carplay android auto. Lots of
stuff around that. But yes,
Adam Curry: the answer is always buy a different car. That's
always the answer. If CarPlay doesn't work, you get a good
need to upgrade your automobile.
Oscar Merry: Yeah, it's hard to test as well, obviously, on a
different car system. But no, yeah, we've been, I guess the
biggest update from fountain side is last year, we were
working for about six, almost six months on our 1.0 redesign
of the app, which included kind of a ground up redesign of the
interface, you know, much more space, spacious design. And also
we've re architected a lot of the app as well. So it's much
more performant and stable. And so we put an incredible amount
of work into that and launched it launched at 1.0 in December.
And yeah, really happy with the results. The feedbacks been
great. And I think we're kind of you know, we've been, we
launched fountain in, I think August of 2021 on iOS and
Android and I feel like with the 1.0 release, we finally got the
app and a place where people can Buying from, you know, Spotify
or Apple podcasts, kind of, you know, feel comfortable using it
and design and the user experience is there to match
their expectations. So yeah, really happy my
Adam Curry: comm that my compliments when the the 1.0
came out. And it also felt like you took this big, wet ball of
spaghetti code and threw it out. It the app just snaps. It's so I
mean, it's really responsive. It was kind of bogging down at the
end there.
Oscar Merry: Mm hmm. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, it wasn't just
the design and UX, we also just re architected the entire app in
terms of how we manage your library, how we do the social
features, everything. And yeah, it's much more performant. Now.
So really happy on that side of things as well.
Dave Jones: Did you? Did you before writing fountain had you
ever written an RSS aggregation app at all?
Oscar Merry: No. And I'd also never built a mobile app as
well. So actually, I don't know if I've spoken about this. But
the first version of fountain was built just as a side
project, partly because I wanted to just learn mobile
development. And I'd always been kind of interested in, in audio,
and was working on that just to see if I could, you know, build
a mobile app. And then just that that time is when I came across
you guys, and probably listened to the first episode of
forecasting 2.0. And, you know, heard about the lightning spec.
And so it was kind of good, good luck that
Adam Curry: it's no coincidence came across the there's no
coincidences in the in the kingdom here, Oscar, that's
that's not, that's not luck, brother.
Oscar Merry: That, whatever it is, I'm glad it happened.
Dave Jones: If you I mean, if you've never written an RSS
based, you know, aggregators based app there is, it seems so
simple, but it's not. You, you end up, it's not, it doesn't
surprise me at all, that you would hit a point where you're
like, Okay, we're gonna have to re architect because it's, you
learn what not to do very quickly, over the over a few
months period of time, you know, that that year mark, I can
imagine that you would have hit a wall and said, you know, okay,
now we know, let's go back, fix it, and then we're good.
Oscar Merry: And it's difficult to take six months, and, you
know, not really released anything and kind of rebuild a
lot of stuff from the ground up. But I think it was really worth
it. I think also, what you learn is, you know, you have a big
long list of edge cases that you end up, you know, having scripts
to deal with, I'm sure you have that pig on this day. That's
also helpful, because it means you can you know, you know, fix
duplicates, you know, fix repassing issues.
Adam Curry: We remember those from the freedom controller
days, Dave, can I ask you, Oscar, you see have four people
currently working on or at fountain. Now, if I recall, you
are one of the one of if not the only 2.0 app that is, has gone
out and gotten funding? Do you mind talking just to us about
the business side? How things are going for whatever you want
to let us know.
Oscar Merry: Yeah, sure, happy to talk about that, I guess, you
know, from the business perspective, the most important
thing for us is revenue. And, you know, to give you a sense of
that we we have, we do have about 4% of our users pay for
our premium subscription, which is 299 a month. You know, we're
definitely a long way away from that being, you know,
sustainable for us. And then we also have our promotions feature
which brings in, you know, a similar amount of revenue, I do
think that we can get to a sustainable business with the
premium subscription. I think 1.0 is a big part of that.
Because I think people are comfortable paying for a podcast
app, they you just really have to deliver on everything. And
then also come up with the list of premium features that are
going to kind of you can package up nicely into that premium
subscription, even now, our premium subscription. So what
you get for that is transaction fees reduced from 4% to 1%. You
get unlimited transcripts which we generate for you on the fly
for any episode that hasn't included it in the feed. And
then you also Yeah, that in fact, those are the two the two
benefits of premium so we can still do a lot more there to
improve things. But yeah, happy to talk about anything else that
you want as well
Adam Curry: is the value for value of which you you take a
portion for the app is that A, is that worthwhile for you now
is that working the value for value split?
Oscar Merry: I would say. So we've always kind of not
prioritized taking a big fee, both on the listener side and
the podcast aside for our podcast or wallets, because, you
know, this stuff is new enough for new podcasters that want to
get involved. And I think part of the benefit that we can sell
to them is that the fees are lower. So for example,
podcasters, that use the fountain wallet to receive their
SATs, we charge them a 4% split, which is, you know,
significantly lower than any of the kind of traditional podcast
monetization tools. And so that that I would say, out of the
premium subscription, the promotions and the transaction
fees, the transaction fees is definitely the lowest in terms
of our revenue, I do think it will be a massive part of the
revenue, you know, a long way into the future. But I think,
you know, because this is also new. And because of the
onboarding challenges of lightning, I think we try and
kind of, like, minimize that as much as possible. By the way, I
really enjoyed the podcast, you were on Adam, the value for
value roundtable. And I thought that, you know, that captured
perfectly what we are seeing every day when we're talking to
podcasters, which is, you know, despite how far we've come, it's
still so, you know, confusing and intimidating for a lot of
people, we still got a lot of work to do there.
Adam Curry: And I wanted to say, I was so wrong about two things,
which you did and I think are just really turned out to be
really, really helpful and really good. One is publishing
the booster grams. I thought that would detract from the
value from booster grams, I was wrong. People really like that.
And, and the one that is just is mind blowing every single time I
like to promote all apps equally, wherever I can. But for
onboarding people into the whole concept of Satoshis, the earning
SATs through fountain is just such, it's such a big win I have
had the real experiment for me was carrying the keeper. And
because we knew this audience would not be technically adept,
and we kind of focused on we'll get the fountain app, import
your your existing podcast into it, that's probably 5000 of the
support calls you got come from us. And so once they did that
they'd like you know, I Oh, I have I have 1000 SATs after a
month or so. And then they and they would send them to us. And
that, um, and then and then they like well, okay, I feel good now
about getting my bank card. And, and buying some. And it really
is a path that I think other apps should look at. I'm sure
it's not simple to do the, you know, earn a set per minute,
you're listening, I'm sure if that's an entire architecture by
itself. But for onboarding people into the Satoshi based
value for value, it is hands down a big win for value for
value podcasting, and for Bitcoin I guess as well, because
people just get interested in it. And, and I did not think
that was good in the beginning. But it turns out, I think you
did really smart stuff there.
Oscar Merry: Oh, thanks, Adam. I appreciate you saying that. And
yeah, I think, you know, the earning feature. You're right,
it is a challenge. And it's a whole nother you know, piece of
the architecture both on the back end and in the mobile app
that is incredibly complex. But what we found, because
especially with the streaming sets per minute, which is you
know, the more unique aspects of the payments that we have within
podcasting 2.0 And it's the, in a way, you know, people love
sending boosts, but there's something about knowing that
you're streaming money every single minute that you're
listening, but it's really unique and people really seem to
enjoy. One of the things that I'm always really, you know,
excited about to see is the percentage of our payment volume
that is from the streaming sites versus the booths because, you
know, we've done so much as you say, to surface the booths and
fountains so that people can see them but the streaming setups is
kind of hidden and it's kind of personal to you as listener, but
the volume of streaming services is consistently around 40 45% of
the total. Yeah. And I think that's really, really exciting
just in terms of the passive transfer of value based on
people listening. Yeah. And
Adam Curry: I like how you portray it down at the bottom of
the of the listening screen. You know, when you see, it's an
exciting thing to see if it actually makes me feel good. You
know, I don't have to go in and see, you know, how much did I
send or whatever. It's just, it's telling it right there. For
me. I'm like, Oh, I feel good about, you know, the value for
value feedback loop is there in my face all the time? And I feel
good. Like, yes, yes, I've sent 1200 sets so far. Yeah, this is
good. It's worth it. You know, and it's not like, I wouldn't
change it. If I felt it wasn't worth it. Like, well, I should
stop listening to this, because it's really not worth it to me.
I mean, it's, there's something that does to my brain that I
enjoy very much.
Oscar Merry: Yeah, me too. And that's, you know, with the
earning features, we want people to, you know, experience the
fact that money is moving as you listen. And we felt that it was
a good way. But yeah, I think that there's still I think, not
just within fountain, but within the wider podcasting 2.0 kind of
community, I think there's still so much we can do to surface,
that feedback loop and kind of show people what they've
contributed and how much of a difference it's made. Yeah, I
still think there's so much more we can do there. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Well, I mean, that's perfect. timing for I don't
know, if you tried to nail the release of fountain radio for
the being on the show. Clearly, clearly. Yeah, I mean, it's a
three pointer from half court. So that was a pretty that was,
that was a pretty big release. Yesterday, I spent some time
listening to it last night. It's like, I mean, it's like Elon, it
reminds me of Elon beats, but also with the ability for me to
jump ahead in the like, I can go, I can just pay my way to the
top. And so I was doing that a couple of times last night and
throwing some stuff in there. It's pretty genius. Like, what
was your? Did that kind of just come to you? Or Did y'all draw
that up in the room? Or what? How'd that go?
Oscar Merry: Yeah, so it was actually quite a last minute
thing. We didn't put that much time into it. And but there are
a few reasons why we wanted to do something. And it's at the
moment mountain radio is only on web, because yeah, obviously
normally with fountain we have to go through appstore review
and approval, and we have to be quite careful about that. So we
thought we'd just throw it up on a subdomain. And we could be
more kind of experimental, try different things out and not
really worry if we, you know, break stuff or change things.
But the reasons that we wanted to try something like this, I
guess there's like two or three separate ones. The first is that
I think the music podcasts have been an amazing way to introduce
value for value of music to existing podcast listeners, and
you know, just new people coming to value for value. But what we
found is that there's still quite a few steps from you know,
hearing about value for value music to actually going through
finding a music podcast that you kind of, you know, you you like
the show you like the genres of the music, and you decide to
follow it and then you find a track and then you make through
one of the apps, you save that track and then you listen to
music, there's just quite a few steps in in going through that
journey. And we just wanted something where we could just
send people that they could open a URL and start seeing value for
value music. The other thing was that I think that you know, the
music podcast hosts and obviously Adam you do an
incredible job with booster groundball. You know, they have
the, they're the best at surfacing new value for value
music, but there's plenty of other people out there that are
also discovering these tracks and, you know, also have a part
to play there in terms of, you know, find making people aware
of new music and that was the reason why we wanted to do the
cue feature. And, you know, let anybody cue something and let
anybody boost tracks you
Adam Curry: have, you've done something here, which has been
talked about since 1996. I have heard people say, Oh, we're
gonna make it like radio jukebox, and people can upvote
and, and you did it. I've heard so many people talk about this
and T Oh, no, we it's one of those. It's almost as rare that
this was created as micro payments that we're doing, you
know, it was one of the big one of the big promises and my fav
bid, which is your refrigerator will know when you're out of
milk, it's going to automatically order it for you,
which also has never happened. This is one of those things that
I, I could not believe it like, wow, someone actually did it.
And weirdly, doesn't surprise me that you, as you could say that
you kind of just threw it together. And I think it's a
perfect companion to stuff like booster gram ball, because, you
know, I'm seeing stuff that I've played, I'm seeing people
throwing those in there, I'm seeing them being upvoted this
is this is something very new. And and of course, I also knew
that you do it, you did adjust to impress us for coming on the
show today.
Dave Jones: Obvious podcast index.is clearly working because
podcast index dot top music chart that everybody follows is
100 is now what is now 361.
Oscar Merry: Honestly, the so we launched it on, yeah, two days
ago. And I ended up staying up till about three in the morning,
because I was just watching what was happening because we didn't,
you know, we did no, you know, user testing, or we didn't
really think about it that much. We just were like, We think this
will be cool. But really, we have no idea. So I was super
curious to just see how people were using it. And there was a
point maybe about two in the morning, where the number of
SATs to play next was starting to creep up, you know, normally
it was about 100 or 200. And it started to creep up you know,
1000 2000 3004 kind of like, you know, songs, sniping each other,
you know, 10 seconds left to play and then someone sends a
boost and jumps to the top and it plays next that just stuff
like that was fascinating to see what I'd like
Adam Curry: to get some of this round robin discovery stuff
going. So I'd like to put a couple things in your ear one.
If you can take a look at your TLV records just in general so
that when someone's boosting a remote item on a music podcast,
that I as a music podcast, you can see what they what they
boosted what I think you need you need to send the remote item
good or something I'm not sure what that is. But other other
apps seem to be able to do it like curio caster and Casta
Matic and someone with some other one, just so that I as a
music podcaster have that information like what what are
people boosting? Because I can't see it? And the this Wyatt and
of course the reply function, I'm just gonna throw that out
there every single time because that's so cool. I mean, I'm
literally sending SATs back. And in some of the stuff that
Dahveed US did with RSS blue.com. I love the idea of Ma
and I don't know, I mean, I mean, he's obviously got scripts
running to do it. But I would love to see oh, this song is
played on and then you know, show the playlist that it's on
or be able to expand it to show what podcast has been played on.
I mean, this is the stuff that I can just feel, we can really
start creating discovery, if we can add all these things I know
I'm asking for a lot. But minus will ask.
Oscar Merry: Yeah, definitely on the TLV. I thought we had
already done that. I thought I'd done that. But I'll double check
that for you. And yeah, I also totally agree with you in terms
of surfacing the, I guess, Discovery connections between
all of these pieces of content and also, between all of the
apps as well, I think the more that we can, you know, surface
our own data so that other apps can consume that and try and do
it in a standardized way. I think that's really powerful.
Because really, you know, if it's just, you know, fountain
that has, whether it's, you know, charts or you know, what
happened within the fountain app, it's much more powerful to
have it have a view across all of the different app.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think music is probably the I think that
maybe you you have an instinct for music being a good entry
point to getting people comfortable with value for value
in general. Because it's the thing where we're all used to
paying for music. We all understand that. It's it's
heavily copyrighted, it's heavily protected, I guess, is
the best way to say it. And me No, you can't listen. It's very
hard to listen to music without the outside of radio, but you
have a sense that okay, well, we're getting hit with ads every
two seconds. Somebody's making money somewhere. There's just a
sense that music is a thing you pay for, that may have not have
been native to podcasting itself, because there's so many
shows For a long time, but podcasting was born too early on
without advertising, you know, advertising came in, but there's
still so many podcasts today that don't have it. And I think
we get used to that we've gotten used to that fact. And you know,
music doesn't really lend itself to ads. So you can't, you can't
just drop an ad in the middle of a of a three minutes on. So
there's really, I think music is probably a great introduction to
value for value in general. So that so that you bring the value
for value mentality, it may start with V for V music, but
then people bring that mentality back to podcasting. aimez sells
Serrano, with stuff like the fauda with with stuff like
radio, and that kind of thing. It just makes sense. People get
used to this. And then they come right back into a podcast app.
And they're like, Okay, well, this is just the same thing. I'm
just doing the exact same thing.
Oscar Merry: Yeah, I think as well, you know, is, is a
slightly different is use case or time of day, you know, we
were thinking about, like, you know, you're sat in the office,
right, you're probably, or you might listen to a podcast, on,
you know, on your headphones at the office, but there's so many
people that listen to music in the office, and they don't
really necessarily mind what's playing, they just want to have
something on in the background. And so yeah, the ability to just
have a kind of endless feed of, of music where, you know,
obviously, you know, I've been monitoring it over the past
couple of days, and there's not always people queuing it up, and
then we just pull random tracks from, you know, podcasts index.
But the idea that, you know, hopefully, on some level,
there's like a layer of the community that is, you know,
putting cool stuff in that they find. And then that goes out to
everybody.
Adam Curry: I've been, I've been a radio guy since I was 13 years
old. This is the first music radio without disc jockeys that
I'm excited by. And I don't know if this is something that other
people feel, but inherently, I know that this is not just
someone's playlist, one person's playlist, because I, you know, I
listen to people's playlists. Okay, I know what this playlist
is kind of about, it has, in a way, it has some of the
excitement of a Pandora radio station. But but the, the
random, the randomness of Jack FM, you know, it's like it can
go Oh, and there's this and it goes from that. And I just know,
that there's that there's a human being. Not always, but I
know that there are human beings who are influencing this. And I
love listening. I never have music on in my, in my studio
when I'm working. Now I have this on the background. And then
I hear something Oh, let me go check. And I can see the chat.
And I can see if it was pulled randomly or upvoted. There's
something uniquely human about this that I can't explain. But
it's it's very appealing. It really is great. It's just hands
down. I'm so happy you did this. This is great, great idea.
Oscar Merry: Oh, thank you, Adam, I really appreciate you
saying that. And, you know, hopefully, I mean, one of the
other reasons we did it as well is because the Ainsley Costello
concert, which, you know, at the time, we didn't really have the
ability in the fountain app or on web to really like play a
live stream. At that point, we didn't even have live video, but
obviously NZs concert was coming up. And so I very quickly threw
together that page that you guys probably saw on fountain where
we were tallying up the booths and the total sets from all the
apps and but it was, it was, you know, really basic, and it
didn't look very good. And there was no real interactivity. It
was just a list of the booths. So another reason that we wanted
to try this is that we think a lot of the elements, especially
the chat kind of feature, we could hopefully at some point
reuse for you know, regular podcasts live streams, and we
can figure out okay, how does chat work, you know, what kind
of things do we have to do? Because I think also, you know,
if I was comparing the fountain live page to what Zap Dot stream
had for the or sorry tunes that had for the AC Costello gig and
I was like, Okay, we need to you know, we need to raise the bar
here in terms of what people want from a live experience and
so hopefully, we can test that out with bouncing radio and you
know, break things and mess around because it's, it's not as
critical as, you know, someone's concert that you know, yeah, or
Yeah, or in app so that was another reason we wanted to do
it.
Dave Jones: So are you is the fountain stack is that still
flutter
Oscar Merry: Yeah, so the mobile app is all built with flutter,
which is the programming languages Dart. But flutter is
Google's cross app development framework. And yeah, it's really
good. I would highly recommend it. There's, there's a few
quirks to it, especially when you're trying to do stuff like
CarPlay and Android Auto, which, yeah, taken up a
Dave Jones: lot. You have to fall back to the, to the native
API's for that, or just flutter allow for that. Yeah.
Oscar Merry: Yeah, you have to fall back to the native API's.
So you know, you have to go into the Swift or Kotlin, and figure
out all of that aside. What,
Dave Jones: how does that how does that work? Because I've
never, I've never used flutter. I mean, do you have to like
build a Kotlin, or Swift native library, import that in and then
call into it with flutter?
Oscar Merry: Yeah, so you use something called a method
channel, which is essentially, you just you build the interface
and all of the method calls on the dark side, and then you
build the exact same thing on the native side, and then you
kind of like communicate over the method channel. So it is a
little bit fiddly and and that's, that is the downside,
but I mean, you know, what's great about flutter, and I'm
sure, React Native offers this as well. But it for example, our
clipping to a new clipping tool that we released in 1.0, we have
like a wheel, and you can drag the start at any time. And you
can then drag the position. And there's loads of complicated UI
complicated maths around figuring out the circle for the
clear. And, you know, for us to build that twice in Swift and
Kotlin would just be you know, it would just take too much
time, whereas that's all just in flutter one programming
language. And Dart is very similar syntax syntax to
JavaScript. So it's like, pretty easy to get your head round.
pretty intuitive.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot of
sense. Is there? So on the on the, the app, it's on fountain
app itself? Have you seen a lot of Evie seen? Have you seen
stickiness with your users? Like when users begin to use fat when
you have a new user to fountain Do you? Do they tend to? Do you
see a lot of people trying it out and then leaving? Or do they
stay with it?
Oscar Merry: Yeah, so it's definitely a challenge to get
people to stick with it. But there's so clearly two groups of
people, there are people that send a boost to a podcast, and
there are people that don't, and the people that send a boost,
they are really, really sticky. And they come back and they use
the app again and again. And so for us, always the biggest
challenge has been, how do we give people the experience that
we all know, and everybody probably listening to this knows
there's a great experience of sending your first boost and
feeling that you've contributed back to, you know, the podcasts
that you've been listening to, you know, for, for years,
probably? How do we allow people to do that, you know, easily on
the first time they download the app. And the reality is that it
still really sucks and it's not. You know, you download the app,
you've heard about, you know, value for value from your
podcasts, because that's where most people hear about it. And
you have a wallet, and yes, you can earn a few sets, but not
really enough to send a boost. And then you're like, Okay, how
do I top up this wallet? And you can top up with a bank card,
which was a big improvement when we introduced that a year ago,
but you still, you know, the partnership removed pay, you
have to do it depends on jurisdiction, but you have to do
KYC or you have to go and figure out this whole Bitcoin lightning
world do I download Cash App? Or no cash apps not available in
the UK? Strike? Oh, no, that's not available, either. You know,
what's the wallet noncustodial custodial invoice? You know that
all of that stuff is sucks. There's so many points where
people can drop off. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, it sucks. So I
think, you know, I think there's a way that we can do it, though.
And I don't know if you guys saw there's enough the app called
Primal. And what they've done is, you actually top up your
wallet with an in app purchase, you give Apple the you give
Apple the 30%. Which means that the stats that you're topping up
with you're getting ripped off by Apple, basically, yeah, but
they've done that without requiring KYC and it's a limit
of $5. But that's the type of thing that I think could make
the first you know, experience of using a value for value app
way better, because you don't have to go through the loops of
you know, figuring out Bitcoin or lightning or buying or
anything like that. It's just an in app purchase with which Most
people have done and they're comfortable with.
Adam Curry: So they get started Max 555 dollars and then Apple
takes a buck and a half.
Oscar Merry: Yeah, yeah.
Dave Jones: Well, that's that's actually pretty. That's actually
a pretty cool idea. Because you,
Adam Curry: you get you get people started, that's for sure.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, you get you get five, five bucks, you
know, it's the easy entrance and then once they once people learn
about it, then you're like, Okay, well, there actually is
another way you have a wallet that exists outside you can do.
You
Adam Curry: can take them down a path. Yeah, right. Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah. Yeah, that makes How about,
Adam Curry: how about strike? Is that because yeah, I think you
can you can use strike now as well.
Oscar Merry: Did I see? Yeah, so you can top up? What? Yeah,
we've got an integration with strike. Where if you have a
strike account, you can top up your fountain wallet with one
tap. It's like an O auth. Integration with strike. So that
works well. But obviously, if you don't have a strike account,
then you're still stuck in no man's land. You know, trying to
figure it all out. So yeah,
Dave Jones: are you? You know, I don't know about it. I know,
this is all I know. It is though. This is very annoying.
And I know it. It does. It does. But you know, I keep coming back
to this idea of like, it sucks in real life with Fiat too. In a
lot of ways. I mean, just trying to get somebody money. I mean,
we have to have the same app. And then okay, I'm gonna pay you
back for this thing. Do you have Venmo? No, do you have cash out?
Yeah, but I don't have that. So I'm gonna have to go cash out.
Now I'm gonna have to KYC my bank. I mean, like, we already
jumped through a lot of hoops and Fiat to I think we just were
more used to it. And so we kind of give it the benefit of the
doubt. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I think there's something to that. And remember,
all of this stuff, has had its own paths, you know, it's like,
it's just that this is a payment thing. And people are very used
to payment systems working. But I find as a podcaster, when I
explain it to people and say, hey, guess what, you know,
Freedom requires an extra step. That always works, by the way.
Oh, okay. There's no one in the middle. It's just you and me,
baby. And that, that that typically works quite well. Are
you? Are you planning on? Enabling video playback?
Oscar Merry: Yeah, we definitely want to support video for live
streams, that's the kind of first step in which we don't
support right now on mobile. And further than that, I guess, for
me, you know, I've always just tried to build the features that
I want to see into fountain and for me, I've never really
understood the appeal of watching the video version of a
podcast, I totally get it for live streams. But I think the,
me the magic of podcasting and audio is that you can be, you
know, doing the washing art stuck on a bus in London
traffic, or, you know, just walking to the shops, and you
can be, you know, listening to incredible content. So, I think
for that reason, video is a different thing when you need to
have the app open to actually use that. So but but we
definitely support it if that's what people want it and I think
definitely for live, we're going to add that soon to the mobile
app. Cool.
Dave Jones: Is is correct me if I'm wrong, it is the Rogan
video, Spotify only and only the audio is in the feed as far as I
know.
Adam Curry: Okay. But maybe he may be doing a deal with with
YouTube. I gotta tell you all these Spotify deals, you know,
everyone's out in the market. I think they they really went
like, you know, we'll give you a guaranteed minimum of almost
nothing. I'm not sure about Rogen. It's in which he now so
did we see his feed? Move to megaphone? So I guess they're
getting serious now? About ads, of which there have been none.
So I'm not sure I'm not sure what's going on with with all of
that. I mean, I think there's a lot of a lot of big talk about
big numbers, but I'm not sure the numbers are really all that
big.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's just I'm just wondering if some at
some point, it will cause a show like Rogan's that does, just
kind of defies explanation that may be the only podcast that
people really crave the video first experience for or if
Adam Curry: they really do. I'm not I'm still not even sure
about that. Yeah,
Dave Jones: that's true. Who knows? I mean, there's there's
no way to know. No. I hate to do this. But do we need to talk? We
don't We need to talk about fees. I mean, like throw cold
water away.
Adam Curry: We need a jingle like horrible feeds Aw.
Dave Jones: I think I think you need to pop that. I think you
need to pop the math jingle. And I think we just need to take
this pill. All right, here we go.
Unknown: It's so hot. When you talk math run. That stinks. Dry.
Math to me. Oh, yeah,
Adam Curry: we're talking about math.
Dave Jones: And we're talking math. I love this, the fact that
that jingle still references thanks.
So the the proposal and the namespace that to remove there
to change the way that the the fees work and in the value
recipient. So for currently, the way it is now. The the fee, if
you if you have an attribute on a value recipient tag a fee
equals true, that means that the split value is now no longer a
share. It's now a straight percentage. So fee equals true
and then the value recipient, the value split is one that
means 1% off the total. This is got this is there's problems
here the biggest problem I see. Right off the bat, it was not
really something anticipated in the beginning, when we first
worked this stuff out, the biggest problem to me is you
cannot go less than a 1% split, right? Well, that's fine. If you
have you know, it's we're talking about 100 bucks a month
for about $20,000 a month, well then, you know, if you're
sending a transcription service, Ito, you don't you may not want
us to listen to change kitchen service to you know, $200 a
month for a couple of shows for a couple of the transcripts. So
the the fact that you can't go below below a 1% is to me the
biggest problem, do you do you agree with this initial premise?
Oscar?
Oscar Merry: Yeah, definitely. I think that, for me, the reason
that I was, you know, hesitant about that wording change is
because I think that there's, well, there's two things going
on really, I think the first is we actually never adhered to the
like spec as it's written out on podcast index in terms of I
think it's treating the fee splits as percentages first,
yes. And then tallying up the rest of the splits as quote
unquote, shares, and then splitting those are equally
based on that total. And that was something that, you know,
maybe it was an oversight, or maybe, in fact, it definitely
was an oversight. But we just never took that into account.
And I'm not sure that other apps did, either. I think it was just
something that was never really looked at with much detail. And
it was only when David asked kind of like, try to clarify
that. But I thought to myself, I'm not sure you know how
intuitive it is. Because I think another thing that we've found
over the past couple of years is just the confusion around
splits, is there's a lot of confusion. And I just from my
perspective, I think, you know, we should prioritize simplicity
for both the listener and the podcaster. Over, you know, these
fee service bits that maybe want to, you know, have some minimum
or you know, have a fixed percentage split. And so that's
why my perspective on it would be we should just treat all
splits as equal and kind of like forget about the fee aspect to
it. Yeah, that's kind of my high level view on it.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so yeah, that makes that makes sense. So I
think I think the proposal is basically remove the idea of a
percentage and just treat the fee splits. Just as if their
shares just they're just shares just like everything else is so
split, everybody gets everybody gets the same split. It's not
this not this one values, priority,
Adam Curry: no prioritization.
Dave Jones: It's not treated differently. Yeah. It's not like
you somebody jumps ahead of the line or somebody gets you, you
have to do special math for this split. And then and then do
another round of math for the other. I mean Dobby dos. I mean,
God I love you Dobby doesn't mean that the the math problems
that he did in latex in order to lay all this out, just, it just
made me angry. Like, it made me angry.
Adam Curry: Is there anyone pushing back on? This is a man,
I haven't looked at the GitHub proposal. But is everyone kind
of cool with this battle? Because it was it was it was
really only app developers. I think you were getting the
preferred splits. Now I know. There. Okay, so where this comes
into play, where that terms? Are you okay, there? Oscar feels
like sounds like you've fallen off the chair.
Oscar Merry: Yeah, no, I'm okay. I'm okay. Can you hear me?
Adam Curry: Yeah, I can hear you, I think is IPFS
podcasting.net, which I want to talk about anyway. Because you
know, what happened with with IPFS podcasting, which actually
is not really IPFS podcasting. It's, you know, it's not like
everyone sharing bandwidth, you know, you have a whole bunch of
copies of your episodes, and it's all going through one or
two gateways. And people started thinking that this was a
business model instead of value for value. And, you know, and
IPFS podcasting requires a 5% fee, in the old calculation
model, and you know, it's still all manual, it's not really set
up the way I think it should or could work. I'm not sure if we
can ever make it work perfectly. By the way. I'm publishing
today's episode, through the IPFS gateway, so that Jason at
podcast Guru can work on testing his native IPFS client in
podcast, which is awesome. That's what I think it should
be. Because right now we're dealing with gateways. But I
think Cameron may have some some feedback, because, you know, he
was very adamant about, hey, people need to get paid. And I'm
like, you know, that's never really going to work. If people
want to compensate their bandwidth and storage with the
with splits, and you want to have fees on top? I just, I
don't think it's, um, well, it's proven people aren't really
using it. It's unreliable. It just hasn't worked well enough
yet.
Oscar Merry: Yeah. And I think that if, you know, this would I
would feel a little bit differently if we didn't now
have remote items and remote value TimeSplitters. Because I
think then it would be easier for everybody involved to
understand that, okay, this is a service fee, and therefore, you
know, we can't reduce the percentage, and then the rest
can be treated as shares. But when you start to add in the
value times, Blitz, as you said, day that, you know, you start
doing equations, and I think that the simplest thing for
everybody would just be to, you know, just just treat them
equally. And I think that any fee, service provider and you
know, fountain does this as well, we provide the boost bar,
or 1% fees, but I think we're still so early with this. And I
think the more we can prioritize simplicity for the listener and
the podcaster over what is probably just going to be a
small amount of incremental fee revenue. I think it will be kind
of better for everybody, but also I will say, I'm not like
I'm happy to go with whatever the community want to go with.
Adam Curry: Here's here's a question about the boost bot.
Does the boost bot take remote items into account? And let me
see if I can give you the use case maybe I'm thinking
strangely so if someone if someone boosts Abby Muir on
boost the gram ball the remote item gets a split does Would
that also show up under the Activity tab on Abbe Muir song
in Fountain
Oscar Merry: No, it doesn't do that yet, but that's something
that we could definitely add in I think I think that so good.
No, no, please
Adam Curry: go I'm sorry.
Oscar Merry: Yeah, I was just gonna say I think that the way
that we are using the boost bot to You know, surface the boosts
from other apps, we kind of did that as a, you know, quick fix.
But I don't think it's the right long term solution, because what
would inevitably happen is that every app or service that wants
to display the boosts would have to add a 1% split. And then all
of these app specific boost bot splits would add up. So here
we're seeing that we need a better way here
Adam Curry: is, so I was listening to Sam Sethi on pod
news weekly review, I think I heard him say something
different. Or, or it's because he has activity streams. He's
pushing very hard for this. And I think I heard him say, maybe
I'm wrong. I don't know. Dave, if you heard this part of the
conversation, I think I heard him say, wouldn't it be
interesting to put the activity screen values into the to V
record? That maybe I'm wrong?
Dave Jones: I don't think I'm that far in the show. So I'm I
can Okay, can help.
Adam Curry: Okay, because Because ultimately, I mean, I
can hear him screaming right. Now, what, what he's saying is
we should all be using activity streams, which means somehow
there's another, there's a, an XML stream that comes out of
every user's behavior that they can manage, but it still needs
to be published somewhere for other apps to get at, I don't
know. And I thought he said, What if we put those that
information in those values into into the streaming sites? And
then maybe the hosts get that? I don't know, the hosting
companies. It's, there's something there. I can't quite
figure it out yet. But I agree with you, obviously, Oscar is we
need a way. And I always thought it would be a service that you
could do a 1% split to a service and that service, would then
publish that information to for other apps to grab is what I
thought might happen.
Then everyone died. Yeah.
Oscar Merry: I guess no, sorry. I was just I was thinking I was
thinking through. I mean, my view on this is, you know, the
dreaded noster word, which I know people have different views
on. But I also, I saw that latest proposal on the nostril
repository that, you know, wanted to replace RSS entirely,
which
Dave Jones: I think I talked him off the ledge
Adam Curry: did. You did yeah. You brought up brought up the
book, you brought up the book, the New Testament. Like you're
going against God. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Paraphrase LLM paraphrase, yes.
Oscar Merry: But yeah, I do think you know, and whether it's
nice or something else, personally, I think NASA would
work quite well, is that just not for anything to do with the
media hosting, but just for the comments. Because then, you
know, all we need to do is just agree on the way that we
reference and we've got the podcasts GUID, we can just stick
them in as tags. And then it's not a service that we're using.
It's just, you know, the comments live on nosto. And
every app can pull them in.
Adam Curry: I think dude actually suggested that Dave, I
mean, or, you know, but maybe not doing it specifically that
way, but for the chat or, or the social interact.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that will make Yeah, my thing was just put in
if if the nostril people want to do it, don't try to replace RSS.
Just lay it just use the existing RSS tagging that we
that we have in integrate that way, because that's what it's
for. Yeah, there's no, there's no reason, there's no reason to
get rid of get rid of a thing and try to replace and I
Adam Curry: think you I think it would, would provide quite a
boost to noster if you were to implement something like that,
Oscar, because they're clearly I always say, naast there seems to
be a solution looking for a problem. You know, when people
are like, yeah, we'll replace RSS. I'm like, Okay, you got
nothing better to do. House like, no, no, no.
Oscar Merry: I think that, I think that that, you know, I
understand that there's been some kind of like, you know, I
guess maybe it's a strong word, but animosity between, you know,
people who and I just don't see it that way as some kind of RSS
versus noster thing. I think that's a crazy way to think
about it. I think that, you know, both in noster and in
podcasting 2.0 We have, you know, the big, big issue of
onboarding people to lightning. And that is I think the real you
know, blaka in onboarding more podcasters to value for value
like that's what we see week in week out when we speak to
podcasters. And I think the noster community of developers
and users and you know, it is an active community, they have that
exact same problem. And every single person that they onboard
to a lightning wallet is someone that we won't have to, and vice
versa. And we can also learn from each other in terms of how
we do that, you know, I gave the example of primals onboarding
earlier. And so I think that, you know, we shouldn't be
framing it through this RSS versus noster. kind of paradigm.
Instead, it should I think noster is a great option for you
know, across that comments in podcasting, a great option for
live chat, and because of the way the spec is framed, it
doesn't have to be the only one on the podcast that can decide.
But I think that's something that we should try and explore.
Here's
Adam Curry: my view, because now we'll just leave aside the
discussions of RSS and replacing podcasting. I don't think that's
ever been the issue. The issue is key send versus Ellen URL or
Ellen ballon URL, pay whatever zap versus boost, this is the
issue. That's the only issue in my mind. And I'm not quite sure
how we solve it. Because you're right, we're onboarding people
into two different basically, we're onboarding people in both
sides are noster. And a 2.0 are onboarding people into Bitcoin.
But very different functioning wallets, I'll be actually has,
you know, as doing a little bit of both, but the mechanisms are
just seem kind of incompatible. If we could make those work
together somehow, then we have magic because there's no
animosity. We're, we're all nerds. We're all developers, we
all want to we all want to make this stuff work, you know, and
I'll just brush aside the, you know, the people who are like,
Oh, we're taking them over, okay, fine, whatever. But also,
you know, what are you really good at, you're good at
messaging, and payments, we're just, it's, it's, you know,
Twitter can do just as good zaps just as well. It's not anything
special. It's just you putting it into the app. So if we can
marry those two somehow, that, you know, even the fact that we
talked about zaps versus boosts if we can marry those two into
2.0. I think we have something really beautiful. And that can
just be another thing. noster does. That's where I think we
need to be not like and or but make noster do a cross app
comments, make Nasr your profile for login for chat, we already
have demonstrated that it already works. And then somehow
we need to integrate the ZAP and the boost function into doing
what we need it to do. Yes, Sam Sethi I know that you already
have that, I find that I find the language is the biggest
barriers zap versus boost. And under the hood, we know what a
boost does. We know how it works with splits. We figured this
out? Can we get them to utilize what we've already figured out?
And I've implemented for three years.
Dave Jones: Yeah, this is my this was wasted. Yeah. Sorry, go
ahead. No, I was just gonna say that was my that was my point to
them. I was trying to make that point. Whether I did or not, I
don't know is just is don't wait, there's so much wasted
effort trying to trying to, you know, move this boulder up a
hill, don't don't do that. Do something new, do something
different. Figure out look, look at the tags that are written, it
will be so much easier rather than trying to reinvent
podcasting to pull the RSS in these apps. And then if you want
to go do stuff over noster and allow them to zap through to the
value recipients and stuff that are already there, then
basically, you've turned noster into just a big podcast app. And
that's fine. I mean, that that works fine. Do that if you want
to just don't it's no, there's just so I just dread this wasted
effort of trying to reprove, like reinvent everything,
especially in an industry that is not going to budge.
Oscar Merry: Right? Yeah, I completely agree. And I think
that the language point, Adam is really, really important,
because you're right, that they are conceptually different. And
I actually think that we can, we don't have to, it doesn't have
to be boozed versus that they can be conceptually different
things. So I'll give you an example. We actually have in
Fountain right now, when someone sends a boost or leaves a
comment on an episode that is from a show that's not value
enabled, or somebody creasing, or somebody replies to a boost
or a comment. We have paid likes, where you send Sass in
the form of a like. And to me, that is the equivalent of a Zap
on Noster, which is, you know, more light touch there isn't,
you know, it's less thought through. Whereas a boost within
podcasting 2.0 is something that you do, you know, because you
really enjoyed that content, and you're sending, you know, a
message along with it. And so I think that we can kind of
maintain that difference. And I actually think the boosts are
much more powerful because they are more considered by the
listener. And then there's apps can still be there in the cross
app comments or chat spec, but there's apps apply at the
comment level rather than at the episode or show level like the
boost do. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So where does that job go?
Oscar Merry: So that would go to the person that left a comment.
So for example, if I said, Okay, I got 100,000, stat boost to,
you know, this show, and then somebody else and they could be
a fountain listener, they can be a pod verse listener, or on any
of the apps because those comments will be visible
everywhere. They could zap my boost, and then, you know, by
receive maybe like, 10 cents or 20 cents.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, that would definitely work. I'm just
looking for deeper integration. I don't know. I think it may be
Bolt 12. Jesus help us bolt to bolt 12 would solve a lot of
this. I think it's to me, it's really just a wallet problem.
It's just, it's just
Dave Jones: it is I think we can go we can firmly say that
lightning, that lnd specifically, but like lightning
in general, l&d specifically, is still a very real limiting
factor. Yeah. It has problems that are difficult to overcome,
and their lack of support for some of these basic things like
Bill 12. It is a problem. I mean, we our node is still a
very complex thing to run. You know, they're transmitting
transitioning to sequelae. They still have, you know, all this
channel in a soft channel called force channel closures that
they're trying to deal with. I mean, I just want to be
realistic here. I mean, let's not paint too rosy of a picture
and say that l&d is is a problem. I wish it was better.
Hey,
Adam Curry: I'm gonna I'm gonna stop the math talk here. I think
we should play a song just so we can take a breath. Yeah, so we
do that. i No one gave me any suggestion. Shall I just pulled
something that fits right into the Bitcoin ethos. This is Joe
Martin man like quacks and Richard and Joe Martin who you
know sounds like he's from Nashville normally all suddenly
as his Birmingham accent is back and they did a killer track
which is climbing up the charts everywhere kids this is called
Rising free
Unknown: Grace guys try to see the bright side fighting hard I
tried awake but I gotta choose cancer bills and the last for
the last man one stone it's possible for anyone and now
to be saved to the system and then a break free will not be of
money because BTC my money is orange now used to be green and
x now got a new team. A new blockchain is my new crew gamma
Intel for my boy Q w is my free event. No don't trust banks
anytime I walk in feels like quicksand. Yeah, clap. My hands
got 24 words and a piece of land them a piece of a piece of
freedom piece of time and that Piece of Eden stone or dream and
wide awake hug a piece of freedom that they can take
now that's it. If I blink, it's gonna pass me make the most
moves. faster than the past so hear me when I say
the last West man was it's impossible for anyone Oh
most
shy of clubs This is our time rise for you for the bond and
the shackles that they made for us guys for you from the path
that they've forged and paid for us. Rise free from the deep
depths and appear that is severs rise free every day until we
have the restless rising free with his 24 little words and
rising free from slavery no longer and I serve the system
created to keep them down rising free to the day they carry me on
my shield and in the ground. Riser for me rising free from
the lie they told us they showed us for free from Owens control
this rising free no one can hold us. Free man Are you are you?
Are you? Are you? Are you
Adam Curry: revel revolutionary?
Dave Jones: There's a good there's good discussion. In the
in the in the chat room about boardroom Yes, in the boardroom
about about it's like well not noster or activity pub for cross
up comments in its you
Adam Curry: don't have to choose one. You can use whatever you
want. You can choose either one. Yes, so social
Dave Jones: interact tag, you can have more than one. And it
has a priority field in it in the priority attribute where you
could even say, Okay, I want I'm going to support I'm gonna put
three of them in here. One is going to be activity pub that
will be nostril want to be something else. And you can say
I prioritize activity pub, but I've also going to put a Nasir
thing, it doesn't mean it's going to work because apps don't
have to support it. And the most support is around activity pub.
But it doesn't mean like the all these tags that we're putting
into the namespace. First and foremost, priority number one is
to make them open. Yeah, where they're flexible enough to
support any protocol right now or in the future. So you can
define it in there, then you can put it in there and then maybe
apps will evolve to support it. But, but you can you're not live
I mean, the namespace is not constraining you to a specific
protocol. You can do whatever you want. And I think that's the
way it should be. Yeah. Yeah. Ah,
Adam Curry: shall we Yeah, thank you few people.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, for sure.
Adam Curry: Let me see we K we got a couple of booths that came
in live. I think we have most of them so let me see what we have
here. We have sir Shawn riser with 1000 SATs. He says I am
boosting as I quote migrate a server podcast. We know what
you're up to. Wink
Dave Jones: wink I understand. Understood
Adam Curry: check your logs 3033 Check your logs sued. Eric p p
3333. No message dribs got 23,456. He just says booze.
Thank you very much. The tone record was 10,000 SATs and he
says testing the live feed and fountain today on the lunch
break. Dobby das you just heard him come in RSS blue.com.
Boosting London from London. You go. Yes, of course. That is
true. We do have Oscars in our split for Crosstown boosts that
is from Northland in the South London. Who knows? Let me see
Dred Scott with 1111 D Let me see. I think that's that is all
that I have for the live booths. Yeah, I think that's it.
Dave Jones: Oh, we get get a couple of one off pay pals this
week, which is fun. We get to see where's that? Yeah, there it
is. We got Jesse Hunter. No note but Jesse send us $10 Thank you,
Jesse. Nice. Appreciate that. And from Oak Kyle Bondo. A
gaggle pod is $50 gaggle, punky Colin, goggle and he says
messages greetings. With every 10 developer questions I asked
Dave, I will send in my swear jar earnings. So, my hosting
platform once told, is almost podcasting. 2.0 ready? And it is
thanks to you both keep writing the boost lightning cheers Kyle
Bondo from gaggle pod.
Adam Curry: Where's the writers writing the booth let that one
go
there it is. Oh,
Dave Jones: we got some. I got some booths we got Jean Everett
Jean been 3333 through fountain he says, Man, this guest is lost
on his YouTube take so many holes can be poked into there.
But
Adam Curry: this is this is from last week. This is
Dave Jones: Benjamin Oh, Benjamin. Oh, he's talking about
Benjamin. Yes. So many holes can be poked into there. You should
have known this would be my least favorite guest on here.
Ever when they couldn't answer a simple question early on in his
dead got rude and said what is this a political podcast? Hey,
no, he's French. He's French. Yeah, that's
Adam Curry: just how they talk. Yeah, you don't have anything
nice to say don't boost at all.
Dave Jones: Yeah, the French always sound like their pistol.
It's just what they do. This is
Adam Curry: just fringe. No, there was no offense anywhere
and I'm taken and I thought it was an interesting point that he
made about not, you know, okay, we're not all fans of
advertising. But he said you know why? His point was Why let
one company take all the advertising when we could have
an open system. I didn't think that was a bad thing to say at
all.
Dave Jones: And Benjamin is a sweet, sweet human being this
Don't ya for Frenchie for French. I think he may have
misunderstood. Jake so to satchel Richards in the morning.
He says fountain 1111 Boost. Okay, well thank you in the one
morning Nicholas be 58 10,000 SATs fountain he says boosting
from my road trip to a local Bitcoin meetup. Oh, wow. Yeah,
the he's going to the to the Bitcoin Bible study. Oh, Mere
Mortals. 1111 our buddy Kyron satchel Richards over there. He
says to fountain he says we eat kangaroos here. But they put up
a fair fight. You need to you need to become a decent boxer
first. I've had kangaroo.
Adam Curry: It's tough. Any good? No, it's tough. It's
really tough. I had to the kangaroo and I had the EMU egg
was that you want you don't want to ask for scrambled emu egg in
Australia you'll never be able to finish it. Yeah, the thing is
Dave Jones: there's like a football so that's pretty much
Adam Curry: yeah, like as like a nerf football. Exactly. Oh, look
Dave Jones: at look who's here. His name Jennifer 33 seats 333
Oh, hello. Hello. She says boosting to try and keep myself
accountable for doing an audio book this month. Ah This idea
has been marinating for a while and has been too low on my to do
list shout out to the RSS blue for making it so easy. Also
still making progress on the V four v explainer hopefully next
week. Kisses and hugs named Jennifer
Adam Curry: kisses and hugs back Thank you.
Dave Jones: Chris last Oh, it's our buddy Chris over Jupiter
broadcasting through podcast index. He says Adam Oh 21,000
stats he says Adam Yeah, I caught you're listening to The
Breakdown. I'd love to have you check out my new show this week
in Bitcoin. Yep. Oh 12
Adam Curry: trim. Yes. All right. All right. I'm gonna I'm
going
Dave Jones: for it brother. I want to make the go to Bitcoin
news podcast for the podcasting 2.0 Community First focused on
the Bitcoin signal, not ship coins, and I will pack as many
2.0 features as I can into this new show. The website is still a
work in progress, but the show is listed on the index and
hosted on pod home. Go podcasting. And
Adam Curry: I am podcast subscribes. Episode number one.
Why Bezos is buying your bag. Okay. Um, I'm subscribed,
brother. I'm subscribed and I am hitting you up right away. I'm
locking it in with the streaming sets. Beautiful.
Dave Jones: Cool. Nice. Cool deal. Thank you, brother.
Thanks, Chris. Oh,
Adam Curry: cool. Mister
Dave Jones: blogger, 25,000. SAS the delimiter is through
fountain. He says hello, Adam and Dave. Are you ready to
embark on a wild and wacky journey through the minds of two
Texans? Well, buckle up buttercup. Join us as we dive
into the hilarious and informative podcast hosted by
none other than gene, the enterprise consultant and been
the InfoSec expert who's got more security tips than a secret
agents Secret Diary. You can find that interesting podcast at
WWW dot just two good old boys.com Yo cspo CSB.
Adam Curry: Thank you very much. We believe it believe it or not,
Dave we have a tally coin. Donation. Yikes. Yeah. Right.
From Eric BP. He sends it why Last week he says fees are so
low so time for an on chain donation 33,369 SATs Thank you
brother that's beautiful Oh appreciate it good to see that
happen
Dave Jones: that that should also look at me putting stuff on
every piece play on chain sins could be in hell a pad just
saying could be a bad feature Did you read this chyron
metamodels booster
Adam Curry: I did about CSB. No I did not I did not satchel
Richards the
Dave Jones: fountain he says just all CSBs boost in it
reminded me that I hadn't sent through my other one can I do
this? Is it legal to send after his will the board beef? Will
the board find me delimiter the board is okay comes through as
an error. Yeah, orders okay. It's divided by zero anywho
value for value season for a starting live again on Sunday
midnight at UTC plus zero. Nice. You get the that's one. You get
that one time. That's the only time next week you have to send
in sooner. monthlies. These are made to get to make goods
because I had 600 unread emails in my inbox and podcast index
and a modern no unread. No. The most the unread emails were two
from February the first that donations that I missed from
Chad Farrow $20.22, and Cameron Rose $25. And I'm sorry, guys.
Sorry, make good. Michael Kimmerer. This week 533. Thank
you, Michael Kaymer, dribs got $15 Pedro Goncalves, $5 Chad
Pharaoh again $20.22, that's for this month's donation. And
Cameron Rose $25. Thank you guys. Thank you so much.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Wonderful. Reminder value for value for the
entire project, not just for for the for the podcast, but really,
for everything we're running. For all those warm migrations in
the morning, go to podcast index.org. Down at the bottom,
you see two red donate buttons. One is for your Fiat fun
coupons, through PayPal. And then of course, you have the on
chain donation through tally coin. But we'd really want
everyone to go to podcast index, podcasting to.org, which has a
very nice page of all of the apps. I think it could do with a
little more marketing for listeners as to what they're
actually getting into. But it has it's all the all the apps
sorted by feature and you click on it children features they
have fill up your wallet and send us a boost. We really
appreciate that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, no, you can't you can't put you can't put the
message in the on chain transaction. But which I guess
what you could do is you could put you could send an on chain
transaction through helipad. Yes, it did send a boost with a
reference to the on chain transaction, a boost for like
maybe one set with a reference to the transaction number.
Adam Curry: There you go.
Dave Jones: See, that's not complicated. How
Adam Curry: about the UX to I mean, let's let's really get
into it. Be a little pro about it. Dave, I think you gotta go
man, you're probably late for forgetting back to because we
started late. I apologize. Apologies for that. Oscar,
brother, thank you so much for all that you're doing for 2.0
We're so so proud to see all of your work, and how you're
growing and just wish you nothing but continued success.
Oscar Merry: Well, thank you guys, you know, we couldn't have
done anything with fountain without what you guys have
created with the index. So you know, we're just hoping that we
can push this thing forward over the next couple of years. So
yeah, thanks so much for having me on again. And hopefully we do
it again soon.
Dave Jones: Yep, Marathon brother. We're all in there.
Adam Curry: Yes. Right. And it's the journey, not the
destination. Remember that is the journey, everybody. Y'all
have a great weekend. Thank you, Brother Dave. Thank you, Brother
Oscar. Thank you everybody in the board room. We'll be back.
Next Friday, we'll do it all over again. Please join us then
for podcasting 2.0 The board meeting edition
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.org. For more information,
Adam Curry: go podcast.
Dave Jones: Yikes. Right