Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for March 8 2024, episode 170 ones
and zeros. Well hello everybody. Welcome to podcasting. 2.0 the
podcast, this podcast I'm talking about the past the
current and the present of all podcasting. That's right. This
is the board meeting and we are a boardroom that meets every
week come rain or come shine I'm Adam curry here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. The man whose to do
list is longer than his Server migration logs please say hello
to my friend on the other end the one and only Mr. De Jones
you made it you made we're having a show we're barely
having a show.
Dave Jones: It's better than not having a show you're you're
Adam Curry: literally came to the board meeting with baling
wire gaffer tape and crayons. Yeah. gooby gone and stuff.
Whatever. crayons. Crayons.
Dave Jones: Yeah, this was like, I came in here and this is how
it started. All right, great. Grandma beef milkshake. Yes.
Adam Curry: Those
Dave Jones: grab the blended up the beef milkshake in a hurry,
as usual. And then come in here and it's 12:27pm Yes. I first
thing I do is always change crank up the chat room. That's
that started fine. No problems in the terminal client. Then I
opened brave to get into clean feed. So I click brave and I
look away for a minute and I look back and brave is not on
the screen.
Adam Curry: What was on the screen? Nothing. Nothing. Was it
blocked? Like
Dave Jones: yeah, I was like whoa, wait a sec. It's still
just a desktop. Where's brave? I click it again. Nothing? Wait,
what what's going on? So then I go to pull up I gotta check H
top to see if the process is right. This is only been to you
as this podcast which is Ubuntu
Adam Curry: your your Ubuntu install has been nothing but
trouble. It's just as rapid
Dave Jones: is not trouble anymore because it's dead.
Adam Curry: All right, okay. It's
Dave Jones: like went so there's nothing in H top nine. What is
going on? I pull up.
Adam Curry: Like you heartstart H top and there was nothing in
the list.
Dave Jones: No, there was no no brave. Okay, okay. I gotcha.
Yeah. But then I hit I'm like, you know, I wonder if this is
disk space. So open a do a df space in
Adam Curry: a dash H for human readable? Yeah, for human
readable.
Dave Jones: And it says 100% usage. There's 0% free.
Adam Curry: I'll do it every time. Oh
Dave Jones: crap. So I tried to reboot cleaned up some space
cleaned everything out. I could think of clean and I had like
four gigs free. rebooted, and it just would not come back up. It
was completely dead.
Adam Curry: What what is your log file? What what rants Oh,
nuts on your I don't know. Is this is this your your Umbral as
well? Oh blockchain. Blockchain is on a separate vault. Oh,
okay.
Dave Jones: It's on a complete it's on a different physical
disk. Actually.
Adam Curry: The Bitcoin went up so high that is ruined your
display. It's
Dave Jones: 70. And it was like,
Adam Curry: everything melted down when that thing hits 70
It's beautiful to watch.
Dave Jones: It was low. This is like Altamaha, Pfeiffer
syndrome. Oh,
Adam Curry: well, yeah, of course. Of course, there was a
guy who sold or a guy Somebody sold 1000 Bitcoin when it hit,
you know, the all time high two days ago or three days ago,
whatever it was really? Oh, yeah. I mean, okay, that day,
that'll drop the price on did $70 million in one goes
Beautiful. Good Lord have mercy. But even but even more beautiful
as I just love. I love for all our everyone who's a part of
value for value our app developers, people who have
systems, you know, podcasters musicians, everybody is seeing
an increase in in the value they received. It's just got to be a
good feeling for everybody. Yeah, it really has to be. I
mean, it's it's, I mean, my nephew who's was like 24. You
know, I told him two years ago, I said to just buy a little bit
each day, leave it alone. Don't look at it, and he texts me. But
bitcoins going crazy. I can buy a new laptop. I'm like, No,
think about it. You can buy a laptop now. Or maybe you could
buy a boat in two years. He's like, Ah, so yeah, this is this
is the conundrum that Bitcoin brings you. Like it's teaching,
you know, I have now I mean, I just see what's happening and I
see that Bitcoin of people going out some people who are
listening will laugh, but It's like a savings and a saving
technology for the working poor for the middle class. And it's
teaching our new young generation about value. Because
when I was growing up, what are you? What are you knocking
around? Are you building a robot? Or what do you do? In the
middle of my bitcoin pitch, you're like
Dave Jones: you don't understand what state of mind
Adam Curry: I'm trying to calm you down. I'm trying to calm me
down. I'm just trying to change things are you broadcasting from
Jhansi DeVore X office now it sounds like all the CANS on the
ground and stuff.
Dave Jones: I was just trying to move a plate out of the way
after. It was like one thing after another after another, and
all of a sudden, something fell off the shelf and I'm trying not
to die. Please, please continue with.
Adam Curry: I'll go back. So it's, it's a savings technology,
which is how I've been using it. You know, we buy a little bit
every single day when we've been doing that since it was under
$4,000. But it's just, it's so it's this five year cycle. And
so it's great for the working poor, the middle class, and it's
teaching a whole new generation about value about true value
when I was growing up, they would tell us well, you know,
it's like compounding interest. And if you save a penny a day,
you'll be a millionaire. And when you're 40. Of course, what
they forgot to tell us is that while your interest rate maybe
5%, your government is devaluing your money at 10% a year. Right?
Exactly. So Bitcoin really does the inverse of that which is
it's, it's really it's turning into a beautiful thing. Now
that's been legitimized, and people can buy in on Wall
Street. And I think this this, as they say, this bull run this
bull, you know, this bull season, whatever you want to
call it, that it is going to help some people figure this
out. And I really love X. In fact, I wanted to play the clip
from this week in Bitcoin, which is my new favorite weekly. Thank
you very much. You're our man over there. Jupiter
broadcasting. Oh, Chris. Yeah. Yeah, cuz he, I think he boosted
us last week and said, Oh, you know, you should check this. I
love it. I love it. And it comes out on Friday, which is it
competes a little bit with POD news weekly review, but I was
able to make it work. And so there was this big conference
Bitcoin Atlantis, which I didn't even know about until I saw
Intel, I saw some stuff come through. And, and this is about
data. And it's free, you know, kind of forget the Bitcoin part.
But just think about data. And this is really how, when you and
I consented this early on, the idea of value for value is
nothing more than ones and zeros. You know, being sent
through the internet. And it reassembles. It's in an mp3
format. It reassembles into your ears, and you hear it and you
know, from whatever that it's just pure data ones and zeros is
assembles, you would for whatever it is you're listening
to it, you get value from it, and you literally turn around,
hit a button and said ones and zeros back. Right. But the
perception of value is, is something that I think we're
finally coming to terms with in the world. And this is Lawrence
Leppard. I'm not even sure where he's from. But he, I think,
maybe was an investor or is an investor. And he made a very
interesting comparison, which I want to play a clip of, you
know,
Unknown: in the early 80s, I started my business career, the
IBM PC was introduced in 1980. And Microsoft came public in
1986, came public at 14 times trailing and growing 40% a year.
And at the time, if you were in the computer business, you were
at IBM, or prime, or DAC or Wang, and, you know, mini
computer was really the thing and a lot of people regarded
these PCs and toys. And I think it's an interesting analogy that
back at that point in time. Software was regarded as risky,
because it was ones and zeros and people didn't see that there
could be any value in it there was like, How can there be value
in the software, it's just written its code, it has no
value. The values in the disk drives the values at IBM the
values in these hardware, computers, people who are making
real stuff. sounds kind of familiar, right? And I recall, a
little further back, wind it back. I'm on the business school
and I'm with my business school roommate. He's with his roommate
from Harvard College guy named Steve Ballmer are walking along
the Charles River and bomber says we've got this thing called
Doss and the entire world is going to need this thing. The
entire world. Everybody is going to have it that's going to be a
part of everybody's life. This is going to be a multi billion
dollar corporation. I looked at him I thought he was nuts. But
then it kind of hit me. He wasn't nuts. It was the base
layer of the technology that allowed the PC to grow. And 40
years later, it is ubiquitous and bombers obviously a
billionaire and Microsoft's a multi billion dollar company. I
mean, I bought it at the time in In 86, when it came public sold
it three years later to buy a condo was a mistake. There's a
split adjusted price is six cents, and the stock trades at
you know, $290 today. So it was, you know, 47,000 times your
money or 4700 times your money. The point I'm trying to make is,
Bitcoin is the same thing and people don't understand that
they don't understand that it is a bit the base layer of money,
and it is going to absorb the entire monetary system. Given a
long enough timeframe, at least in my opinion.
Adam Curry: I just really liked the idea of of showing that data
ones and zeros can be very valuable just depending on how
you assemble it. And, and the same goes for RSS, the exact
same thing. RSS data is is going to be incredibly valuable move
it already is. Unless of course, you work at Andreessen Horowitz
and you're a douche. Here's another clip. This guy Chris
Dixon, have you ever heard of this guy?
Dave Jones: This name sounds very familiar. Someone
Adam Curry: sent me this sent me a link to the YouTube which I
put in our show notes and and a clip. Excuse me. He's one of the
founders of Andreessen Horowitz. And these guys are all about web
three, dead the future blockchain and he wrote a book
called Homeless second, I have the description here.
Dave Jones: It's called why I'm better than you. Pretty much
Adam Curry: Chris Dixon has been a general partner at Andreessen
Horowitz since 2012. He founded and leaves a16z. Crypto, which
invests in web three technologies. Through four
decades funds with more than $7 billion under management, this
has got to be the smartest guy in the world. Previously, Chris
was the co founder and CEO of two startups, site advisor,
never heard of and hunch and also never, but they were
acquired. So it makes sense. In this wide ranging conversation,
that Chris discusses the evolution of the Internet, the
current relationship between AI and cryptocurrencies, and how
the web three movement could inspire a new political
ideology, okay, whatever. But he said this thing about RSS, which
is so, so tone deaf is what I'll call it.
Unknown: And then I think specifically, you had kind of a
horse race. For those who were really in the weeds back then
there were there were things like RSS, which is a open
protocol for doing social networking, which in the mid
2000s, seemed like a credible competitor to some of the
proprietary social networks. Of course, that lost, you know,
it's still around, but it's, you know, most people you talk to on
the street don't say they use RSS as their social media. A
lot. One of the critiques of my book so far has been that RSS is
actually very successful. Why is successful?
Adam Curry: The guy interviewing or whatever is
Unknown: successful, why is not successful at its original
vision at all? Yeah, I mean, it's like HTTP two there uses
transport layers in some cases, but they're not, you know,
they're not the you don't ask an average person, how you get your
social media, and they say RSS, right? They go through a
company. And so anyway, so that kind of led my argument is that
led to the current state today, where you have a small number of
companies who through these, these network effects have now
consolidated power. Right? Right. So in the context of what
a blockchain is, blockchains are they basically my core argument
in the second half of the book is they provide a new way to
create networks. Yeah,
Adam Curry: run with your money away from that guy as fast as
possible.
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah.
Adam Curry: I mean, that shows you the complete ignorance,
which we could call nice. I learned that the word nice in
Latin also means ignorant to he's a nice guy.
Dave Jones: Like this, like this play on words. Yes. He's
Adam Curry: a very nice guy. And, and he he's completely
missing the point as to what I mean. Does he even know that RSS
powers podcasts? And what do you think does he think is YouTube?
I'm not sure. And then, yes, go ahead.
Dave Jones: No, I was gonna say if the if the podcast industrial
advertising complex, if they had their way he would think that
YouTube is podcasting is exactly
Adam Curry: exactly. So then show
Dave Jones: bear. But
Adam Curry: yes, this is actually this show beer today is
a gigawatt Coffee Roasters, Ethiopian Yirgacheffe. Snack,
snap to coffee. Yikes.
Dave Jones: Yes. Yes. That sounds impressive. Yes,
Adam Curry: I will be trippin balls by the end of the show,
for sure. So then, I go to the new generation, the generation
who gets it, who understands what we're trying to do with
value for value, and he's on a little stage at the Bitcoin
Atlantis. You know, I think it's called the Open Source stage,
which you know, The it irks me to no end because Bitcoin
Conference does that as well. What is the big Bitcoin
Conference?
Dave Jones: They have the Bitcoin magazine thing Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
Adam Curry: That tent over there where it's 150 degrees. That's
the open source stage that's where you belong little boys and
girls, but
Dave Jones: it's like the it's like the podcasting 2.0 session
Podcast Movement in the bag next behind behind the lunch, you
know the cafeteria or whatever. Yeah, they will
Adam Curry: they will rue the day they did that by the way.
Yeah, sure. And who is there explaining value for value but
none other than fountains very own Oscar Mary. So,
Dave Jones: how do you approach this? What are what are your
Adam Curry: by the way the conversation at this point has
been not so nice in Austin, Austin, Austin, Austin, Austin,
Austin Austin not Nasir Nasir
tools, tools, tools, tools. noster noster. Thank you. Here
comes Oscar. So
Unknown: how do you approach this? What are what are your
views on that if
Oscar Merry: a value on the other side of the equation?
Yeah, I think just one thing I'd like to mention quickly, before
I talk about the tools that we're building is that there's
actually three components to value for value. The first is
the monetary component. But often people think that it's
just that that value for value is just about how much money you
can from your audience. But there's actually two other
really important parts to this. And the way that we like to
frame this is with the concept of time, talent, and treasure.
So as an audience member or somebody that gets value from
the content that you listen to, or watch, you can contribute
value back, not just through your money through your stats,
but also through, you know, sharing that content, providing
feedback, adding to the content. So time, talent and treasure is
really important. And when we're building tools, we need to
enable that not just the monetary flow. To answer your
question specifically, though, I think that, you know, the state
of the tools that enable value for value, you know, is only
just starting to emerge to mainstream mainstream audience
can actually use it and use it in an enjoyable way. Like, if
you take the fountain app, you know, maybe some of you have
used it before, but only in December did we have our 1.0
release. And now, we're comfortable saying that, okay,
this is a podcast app, where if you're coming from Spotify, if
you're coming from Apple podcasts, the UX is there, the
design is there. And also the features that highlight value
for value, encourage listeners to contribute, give users
feedback, positive feedback, when they do contribute, we're
only just starting to kind of surface these features. And
feedback is a really, really important part. When you send
those sites, if you don't kind of receive some kind of response
from the content creator, then you're probably going to drop
off and never do it again. And I think if you look at Noster, you
know, just zapping the posts, I don't think that's enough to
really drive significant amounts of revenue. Talking about the
ANZ Costello example, that you mentioned, Avi, that was an
example where the tools, the feedback tools did exist. So you
had, you know, a ranked list of all of the booths. And what that
did was encourage all of the live audience to support more
and more to try and get to the top. I think those kinds of
features are only just starting to be introduced. And we need a
lot more of them. That kind of encourage people and give them
that positive feedback that they're making a difference.
Beautiful.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, totally. beaut
Adam Curry: it's amazing. It's been 15 seconds and Sam Sethi
has not yet boosted in that. True fans is doing all of this.
I'm surprised because he is because he is That's why That's
why yes, he is.
Dave Jones: This. So this this is kind of in line with some
things I've been thinking about because the big thing this week,
or one at one of the big things this week has to really last a
few weeks, honestly is the Apple for Apple versus EU.
Adam Curry: Oh, yes. PWA is versus everything else.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And you know, part of the problem with with
this is, it's very hard to follow, because there's a lot
going on at once. And you end up I think Sam and James ended up
sort of crossing some wires on this too when I was listening.
Oh wait, there's
Adam Curry: MCFD Let me check. Is this Oh, no, no, no, not yet.
Sorry. Okay. It's
Dave Jones: given to him. He's he's on In this first class of
one. So, you know, the issue has been a couple of things happen.
And there's, there's the, the DMA, the digital markets act in
the EU, which told Apple effectively that they had to
open up and allow alternative app stores. Yeah, that those
rules are not those rules are not fully in effect yet. And
Apple released their plan for what they're going to do and how
they're going to comply. And that was one thing, then you had
this fine that came out of this $2 billion fine became out for
their behavior in relate in, in relation to music, the music
industry, digital rose,
Adam Curry: specifically from Spotify for it, right.
Dave Jones: Yeah, the Spotify, you know, attack is, essentially
is what that was. So you've got, you've got these two things
happening at the same time. And these, we haven't talked much
about this and fairly for good reason. Because I mean, it's not
really what, what our thing is, but it does affect ad
developers, I mean, affects true fans with the data in the here
and here's the third thing, they they said, Okay, we're gonna
enroll in response to the PWA. As far as response to the DMA
thing, and you're in Europe, we're going to not do PWA
support on iPhone anymore. And then they and then they
backtracked on that, right. This is a bit, this has all been a
very, very messy thing. And that it affects app developers, for
sure. Specifically, podcast app developers, I mean, all of them.
But podcast app developers, for sure. It affects the affected
Sam with true fans. Anybody that wants to create a podcast, web
PWA, all the work that Andrew grommet is doing. Also, anybody
who just simply wants to make a living writing an app or having
an enhanced selling it, which is quite a few podcasts that do a
lot, a lot of them don't care, they do it for the fun of it.
And they do it for the for the giggles, but in the edification
of coding, that a lot of them do want to make some revenue off of
it. I
Adam Curry: think everybody wants to be valued. No matter
what, that's a good way to put it. And can I just interrupt you
for one second? Yeah, sure. Wow.
Unknown: Sakala 20 is Blaze on am Paula
Adam Curry: 100,000 SATs from Sam Sethi. Whoa, I have given up
telling people what we are doing smiley face. Okay. That's how
you do value for value people. That's how you do you ask? And
he delivers?
Dave Jones: Don't? Don't give that up. Sam, keep doing it.
Yeah, of course,
Adam Curry: don't give up at all. Absolutely.
Dave Jones: Yes. So this has all been very messy and haven't
really but then then this thing happened this week with the two,
you know, the $2 billion AWS customers just start thinking
when it comes to when it comes to monopoly and competition, and
antitrust. And these sorts of things, I think that it's
important to keep some kind of some stuff in mind. You gotta
kind of read, what's the best way? So you gotta you have to
read your brain of the idea. First of all, that is that these
are left right issues. This is not it has nothing to do with
that. But people on every political side of things will
will alternatively support or not support. The various aspects
of antitrust and monopoly legislation is really it does
not fall cleanly to plenty of people on both sides that are a
staunch advocates of hardcore government level regulation. And
some that aren't. The but then the other thing is, I think this
is critical, you have to remember that government
regulation is just another is just a product like anything
else. So if, you know if you're a company,
Adam Curry: that's very interesting way of describing
it. And government regulation is just a product. I like it. Yeah,
Dave Jones: it affects the market in the same way that any
other competition does. So if you're apple, and you have a
hard time getting something, getting a supplier to provide
you with a with a part with a part that you need for a price,
this is not going to affect your your cost adversely. That's
really at the end of the day, no different than what a government
regulation might do to you. Your it's still just different ads.
aspects of the competition that you face on a daily basis.
Right? So government is just another competitor. In a sense,
the biggest the biggest competition large companies have
is themselves. Their internal problems are their biggest
issues see
Adam Curry: Google who can't launch a new product for their
life? Exactly.
Dave Jones: So okay, I've got a theory on that out, but I'll,
I'll put
Adam Curry: a pin in it. Put a circle back. Yes.
Dave Jones: The end. So the these huge, these huge company
and I think the reason I thought about all this was because I
didn't expect you to go straight into the Bitcoin angle
immediately. And when you did, it made me think in these terms,
and so the, these huge companies they fight against their own
laziness, their own entrenchment. Their, their own
hubris, hubris, their own pilfering of people out of
important parts of the company into parts that are not
important. There's so many things internally to accompany
that cause it to go towards dysfunction. It's sort of like a
well, it's just
Adam Curry: like an open source project, except people hang in
there because they're getting paid.
Dave Jones: Because they have a 401k Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah,
if we had 401 K's people would be geography,
Adam Curry: very mad at each other all day long.
Dave Jones: And so the, the history of monopoly law, and
because of this reason, because of that, truth, the history of
monopoly law, and antitrust is a history of short sightedness.
And you can just see it the the whole history of antitrust is
littered with it sounds like I'm defending apple here. It's going
to but I'm not really this is I'm just kind of talking in
general in general terms here. Breaking up Standard Oil, when
they had already failed to make the transition from kerosene to
gasoline. They were at antitrust legislation was they missed the
mark. Yeah, they breaking up Microsoft or a talking about
breaking up Microsoft when the web was about to eat their
lunch. And democracy was all the applications off of the PC and
onto the onto the web. That the again day late and $1 short you
know, talking about breaking up Google when the when search is
about to fail. These are these are hitting breaking up AT and T
when they missed the mark of switching from landlines, but
they were about to get their lunch eaten by wireless and when
they were all in on landline. There's every day trying to
break up IBM when everything was when they had a dominance in
mainframe, but they were about to get their lunch eaten by PCs.
This antitrust in college and monopoly and competition law
always always fails to see the next sea change that's about to
happen. In fact, I
Adam Curry: would based on your argument, I would say they're
going hand in hand. It actually benefits these companies. Yes,
yes. Yeah. And the shareholders and the shareholders.
Dave Jones: Yeah, companies are dumb. That's the other part of
this you know companies are dumb they chase things remember?
Remember clubhouse and how everybody wants to say for about
six months oh
Adam Curry: six months it was longer than that and we sat here
and went no, no, no, no, no, we had no dog in the hunt because
we have no money or product and we went No that's not it. Before
Dave Jones: that it was it was blockchain. It was machine
learning. It was self driving cars. It was augmented reality
on cars
Adam Curry: flying cars is next time I love the flying cars.
Look it has 6060 miles of range Okay, okay. Before you need to
charge for five hours okay.
Dave Jones: The bigger the well you know Apple just get they
just can't finally canceled their smartly smartly car thing
but they
Adam Curry: were they were hiring people for a salary of a
million dollars and bonuses of millions of dollars in stock
options.
Dave Jones: And a bet they're doing the same thing right now
with their we're gearing up for large language models for sure
for sure. And the bigger the company the worst this effect is
the biggest companies are the ones that always shoot
themselves in the foot. And your companies are just groups of
people. governments are just groups of people. Oftentimes
they're the same people. In government people groups aren't
any smarter than company people groups. So, Fred, I don't know
if you've ever read the law, about Frederic Bastiat?
Adam Curry: No, I have not French
Dave Jones: economist. He? I think he was 1870s 1880s,
perhaps. Yeah. So he is, the law is a fantastic thing is a very
short book. And his basic premise is very easy to
construe. His premise is that if it's not moral for you, for you,
as a person to do it, to do a thing, then that thing doesn't
become moral, because you get a bunch of friends together and do
it as a group. So he's basically saying you do more morality does
not follow whether or not how many people are involved. If a
if an individual cannot do if it's immoral for an individual
to do a thing. It's also immoral for a group of individuals to do
the same thing. That's his whole theory of government basically
boiled down into one sentence,
Adam Curry: I asked Chad GPT
Dave Jones: would you like the quick summary? Oh, yes, please.
In
Adam Curry: the book, he argues that the purpose of law should
be to protect individual rights and property rather than to
redistribute wealth or regulate people's lives. He criticizes
government intervention in the economy, arguing that it often
leads to unintended consequences and violates individual's
natural rights. He advocates for limited government that respects
individual liberty and allows for voluntary cooperation in
society. Sounds like Trump.
Dave Jones: Yes, he's nice. He's 19th century French. But that
it's like this, this. This, you can't you can't go, you know,
you can't can't go string somebody up in in in response to
something, you know, vigilante justice, you can't get you go
string and people up. And then as an individual, but you also
can't then get a bunch of people together and do it. And then it
becomes okay. And right. And it's like, and you end because
you call that group government. Yeah. Doesn't also doesn't make
it okay. Just magically, because you've changed the name of the
group to something that we all understand. Yeah. So this, this
is the this is the whole basis of a sort of the framework I
think we're finding ourselves in right now is the the EU
specifically, but this is also happening in the US. The FTC is
very aggressive right now. Oh, yeah. They are always going to
miss the mark. So this is what I'm trying to say. If you if you
are attempting to, if you find yourself rooting for these
legislative bodies, to give you some, some redress, or to fix a
problem that is harming you, as an app developer. Please don't
hold your breath because you're gonna, you're gonna pass out.
And
Adam Curry: this is playing out in the US as we speak, in a very
underhanded way with tick tock. As the legislation has been
reintroduced or tick tock, we it's malware, it's digital
fentanyl. It's, oh, no, it's spyware. They're taking its
national security, no more or less than Instagram. Give me a
break.
Dave Jones: I love that,
Adam Curry: in fact, comes from Gallagher the guy who introduced
the get rid of tick tock bill, which conveniently forces tick
tock to make all data and videos exportable in machine readable
content. So it can be imported into I don't know, Google. The
guy's top donor is Google. I mean, it's so transparent.
Dave Jones: Okay, so this fits in with let me go to my let me
go to my Google thing real quick, because I think, I think
I think all these companies that are going all in on AI, and
large language models, I think they're all They're crazy.
Adam Curry: Rude. They're crazy. They're crazy.
Dave Jones: They're going to rue the day that they did this. So
Matt Taibbi recently went, went through and talked about that he
looked himself up didn't we
Adam Curry: play this on the last show? No,
Dave Jones: this was different. This is different. He does a
different thing. He said that what he did was he got into to
Gemini everybody got distracted by the images. Yeah, the gym but
they they missed the larger problem, which was the thing is
completely unreliable in every aspect. Almost. So he, he said,
he said in last week's podcast, they said, Well, I went in there
and I said, what are some controversies involving Matt
Taibbi, he just basically asked it about himself. Yeah, exactly.
And it just made up all kinds of racist things that he had
supposedly said articles he never wrote. It basically just
completely libeled him and gave these references that were
completely bogus. And so I was like, Well, I wonder, I wonder
what so I looked at I said, I asked Microsoft copilot.
Adam Curry: I have a clip for when you're ready. Okay.
Dave Jones: So what are some controversies involving Adam
curry? Oh,
Adam Curry: no. Oh, no. Yeah,
Dave Jones: copilot said, Adam curry, often referred to as the
pod father due to his early contributions to podcasting has
been involved in a few controversies. One notable
incident was the removal of his podcast no agenda from Spotify.
The removal was speculated to be for commercial reasons as
Spotify was planning to launch ads, but some believe there
might have been other reasons behind the decision Oh to toe.
Additionally, there was an instance on the Joe Rogan
Experience podcast where Curry was sidetracked when trying to
discuss the concept of a digital dollar. This led to discussions
within the community about whether certain topics were
being avoided intentionally. These incidents highlight the
complexities and challenges that can arise in the world of
digital digital media and podcasting, so I
Adam Curry: can literally remember the tweet where someone
said that one tweet where someone said Doug curry got
sidetracked he was talking about Bitcoin and then Joe Joe
sidetracked him. I can remember that tweet, I know exactly where
this comes from. Yeah,
Dave Jones: you know where it can't you know, the references
it gets read it, though
Adam Curry: it read it there you go. Oh, yeah, well read
licensing their their content.
Dave Jones: Every reference that it gives in the footnotes are
all from Reddit. They're
Adam Curry: all Reddit threads. What could possibly go wrong?
Yeah,
Dave Jones: breaking this Reddit thread breaking Adam Curry's
podcast removed from Spotify.
Adam Curry: I removed it. I know
Dave Jones: this was this is this thing is a misinformation
machine the likes of which we have never seen before and is
created by the people who are supposedly policing the
misinformation. And I here's, here's my, here is my conspiracy
theory. So we know for a fact that Google Brain is the is the
origin of all of these trends, large language transformer
models. I don't know if they necessarily invented it. But
they definitely gave it their r&d to develop it into a real
thing. So all this stuff, all these large language models in
the current crop of AI, they originated from Google's labs.
So why did Google themselves never do anything with this
successfully because they knew because they knew it was it was
utterly broken.
Adam Curry: Can I play this unreliable one minute clip from
CNBC where you don't want your company talked about negatively
with the big with your big 10 billion so called $10 billion
investment? Here is the latest on Microsoft co pilot
Unknown: well another example today of AI gone rogue and gone
wrong. Microsoft's AI image generator creates violent and
sexual images as well as ignoring copyright CNBC dot coms
Hayden field wrote that story for us and spoke to the engineer
who is making these issues public. She now joins us on sat
along with our own technology reporter Steve Kovacs. So
Hayden, if you would just give me a little bit of a rundown for
viewers that haven't been able to get to your full story yet
about what actually happened here with Microsoft. Thanks,
Courtney. So it is a crazy story. This weekend, I heard
from a Microsoft AI engineer who was really concerned about what
he was finding in the copilot tool. He had been testing it for
months. And he said that all the violence, sexualized, just crazy
images that it had been generating. He had reported to
Microsoft over the last three months to no avail. He wasn't
happy with how they had been handling his reports. And the
craziest part is I myself was able to recreate these same
images that he was concerned about just yesterday, so
violent, sexualized, just inappropriate images. Think kids
with guns, demons and monsters next to abortion rights
terminology, sexualized images of women in car accidents, you
name it, just want to see from an AI image. That's the
Adam Curry: one that got me sexualized images of women in
car crashes.
Dave Jones: What kind of sickos are they In the world, this is
this world is broken brother.
Adam Curry: Well, have you ever been on? On Twitter? Recently?
All I see is people hitting each other punking each other beating
each other up. It's horrible. It's horrible.
Dave Jones: I think Google, because Google had so much
experience with this. Do you remember? Do you remember when
they vert? Okay, so when the first open AI stuff, Google
Adam Curry: guys all went no, no, no, no, no, no, no, because
we're gonna get forced into it. We don't want to do it. That's
exactly what it when we that's how we called it. Yeah,
Dave Jones: they open open AI came out with it. Everybody
started freaking out and saying this is great. How to Google
missed the mark. And Google's first response was, this was
always unreliable. Yep. They said it this technology does not
is not up to the task. Yeah, I think that Jim, I think the
entire Gemini thing was on purpose. I think they rolled it
out on purpose, knowing it would be completely broken. So that
they would essentially throw a stick in the spokes of the whole
thing. That they if if now everybody looks at Google and
says, Okay, wait, if Google who has all the data, and basically
invented LLM, and has some of the smartest data scientists in
the world, if they can't get this thing to work properly,
hold up. Maybe this is not what we thought it was. Yeah,
Adam Curry: that's not how the market is interpreting it. The
market is saying Google, you're passe. You're over there, the
valuation is dropping, and I think the same will happen with
Microsoft.
Dave Jones: Yeah. I'm sticking with my theory. I think they
intentionally threw a letter through a grenade. The whole
idea, okay, and WinPE. And as soon as the these like that
story, you played these little, these little dings that keep
happening where it's like, okay, it did this. Now I got this
wrong, not messed this up. People are gonna start to
reference back to Gemini and say, okay, okay, wait, this
thing is broken. This thing does not they, they were showing us
that this thing was broken. That it wasn't that it did it
completely was unreliable. Okay.
Adam Curry: So now I want to bring this back to podcasting.
Dave Jones: I was getting there. Oh, can Oh, no. Okay, I'll, I'll
punch you up. When you get when you say what you need, say?
Well,
Adam Curry: what I was going to say is that all of these
companies are crumbling around us. I've been in media since I
was well, officially since I was 19. But you know, pirate radio
when I was 1415, but really getting paid for doing it since
I was 19. I have seen I've seen it all. And I know exactly I can
I can see the landscape before me and it is crumbling. The
streaming systems are crumbling, the whole, you know, subscribe
to, you know, 15 different apps that are on your Roku or on your
television, the model is not working. And it could take a
week, a month, it could take 10 more years, but RSS distribution
is the answer. And those of you developing applications, whether
they're whatever the application is, however, it's distributed,
you are the future and stick with it. Stick with it. Because
it's this is going to be so big. I'm seeing the music stuff it's
gonna take years it's gonna take a long time, but it is changing
the reason why Spotify is doing all this is they have no
business model. They don't have a model they are at the beck and
call they are the music industry's bitch seriously, they
know it's like oh we're gonna raise our prices good we're
gonna raise our the cost to you we're gonna raise our licensing
fees it's they have no chance and of course they they really
doing their reverse IPO you know where they were they really
didn't raise any money they're going to have problems going
forward unless they want to dilute the stock has all kinds
of problems and when you dilute your stock your employees
options are underwater and it's it's a mess. It's just another
it's just not as you say group of people. The answer especially
when I hit when for me signal is like the the 16 Z guy the
Andreessen Horowitz guy that signals to me Bing Bing Bing big
red flashing lights. Oh RS says I had no good blockchain. No,
no, no. This is the way forward and value for value is the only
way forward. Of course you can do I'm advertising and you know,
there will be people that it works for. But sure, small
groups, being number one is charts. It really doesn't matter
anymore. Having a group big enough to support what you're
doing is what the future is. And those groups may be I mean, we
were just watching. The Chosun is a great, great example. You
know, they crowdfunded everything three seasons. Now,
this was not a big Hollywood money. Yeah, this is this
complete value for value. Have you ever seen the the credit
roll at the end of a season? It goes on for 10 minutes?
Everybody's on there? Yeah, then everybody feels good. And they
had some vague gamified it you know, if you put an X amount,
then you could do a set visit and all the stuff that people
always talk about these guys actually did it?
Dave Jones: Yeah, this. So the, the, the minute, if you so
circling back to the monopoly and competition thing. If, if
you're a if you're if you think about it, the brow any any
platform, or, or a part of the tech sector that came up through
the browser has sort of maintained its roots, it's
maintained, its openness. It, it maintains its, its sort of ethos
of openness. So and podcasting is one of those things. Because
of RSS, it came up on the open web, and it's sort of it is, is
entrenched is so hard to change. The reason the App Store side of
things and the native app side of things is the way it is, is
because that was a that was sort of a clean slate build from
nothing. And when that happens, there's always the inclination
to lock it down and silo it by if you look at Apple podcasts,
Apple podcasts is I would say the only part of apple that
continues to have a spirit of openness to it. Yeah, they they
not only have a dot out adopted part of the namespace now that
they continue to allow to, to care about RSS and make it from
happen. That would never happen anywhere else in the app and the
Apple platform, things like micropayments, if you think
about if you think about Apple podcasts, where they're where
they are allowing things to happen that the rest of the
company would never allow to happen. So the micropayments,
and the value for value streaming, Satoshis. And these
kinds of things, that, that we've already seen that be be
kicked off through Dominus, because he has problems that has
been happening in the other parts of the Apple platform. But
for some reason, Apple podcasts has a spirit of openness in it
that they're bringing to the platform. And that is because of
RSS is because it's because the product was born from the open
from the open web. You any has maintained that ethic
throughout. Spotify was never born on the open web. It was
born in the basements of music labels in the recording
industry.
Adam Curry: Well, the original Spotify was actually quite cool.
Yeah, it was a peer to peer sharing system for about half a
minute. Yeah. Then and then it got reborn and rebirth into into
what it is today
Dave Jones: into a DRM laced black box. Exactly. Right. So
it's never going to be it. It will never be anything other
than that. Unless there's a humongous change of leadership
and and, and all these, basically unless the company
completely turns out.
Adam Curry: I don't think that can you. You can't even do that.
I don't think it's possible either. And I thought it was
kind of hilarious. As James pointed out on pod news weekly
review how Daniel Eck is like, yo, it's an open open systems we
believe in open and open. Bull crap. We saw what you do with
podcasting, you blew a billion bucks. Right?
Dave Jones: And so people don't want to see they they don't want
to pay 30% And they want to be able to make to do payments off
platform. Those are really the things that developers want. If
you boil it all down, they don't want to humongous fee, and they
and they want to be able to for to use their own payment systems
in their apps. Because Because most device Lubbers came from
the open web. And that's what we expect. But that's not your
you're basically asking Apple and Android to become web
browsers, and they're not going to do No,
Adam Curry: no way. No way that you're not going to do it. No,
they're not, they're not
Dave Jones: going to do it. But I think ultimately, in the end,
it doesn't matter. Because RSS will continue RSS will continue
to exist independent of these platforms. And when when, when
the EU and when antitrust regulators and these people,
sort of these regulatory bodies begin to make begin as soon as
they begin to get aggressive, that tells me that within a few
years, there's going to be some sea change. Because they're
always late to the game. They're always late to the party, they
start doing this right when the person that the right when the
company they're trying to regulate is about to get the rug
pulled out from under, yes, yes, by the market, not necessarily,
not by regulators, but by the market itself. I guarantee you,
there's something coming down the pipe that no but none of us
can imagine right now. There's something comping coming, that
is going to level this playing field on its own independent of
what any of these regulators are trying to do. And we don't even
know what that is yet. Because you can't. It's impossible to
know what's happening next, that Microsoft never saw Microsoft in
1994. They thought the web was a joke.
Adam Curry: Yes, I remember consulting for them. Yeah, they
they didn't
Dave Jones: take it seriously. No, they did not. And within 10
years, they were fighting for their life. And they thought
they also thought Linux was a joke. Now, most of their Azure
cloud revenue comes from Linux, and I don't know,
Adam Curry: 4% of all desktops in the world of Linux. Now,
that's not bad. No,
Dave Jones: no, that's not bad at all. That's not bad at all.
And I think there's something I guess from from an app, you
know, our focus here is as podcast app developers, and
specifically independent ones, but every but all of them. And I
just think that I guess my message would be none. You know,
I wouldn't worry about these things too much. Because I think
they I think they are going if history is a judge and it is
these things will play themselves out and you will be
in a better position and a few years. Yes. We can't say what
that's going to be and how it's going to play out until the
future but I'm not worried about it. I think it's self
correcting. Or I really due for it. And that's for PW A's and
native apps too. I think I think there's going to be something
that causes this to self correct.
Adam Curry: Pod sage has spoken.
Dave Jones: You take it to the bank. Yeah, but I mean like, so.
I don't know if you saw Hello, Pat now has webhooks
Adam Curry: Oh, no, I did not see this. In the spirit of
openness. I did not see this. No. Did that mean that you can
receive something on heli pad and you can make it post
something or do something cool. Yeah,
Dave Jones: you can. You can have helipad send a web hook in
response to some event that happens. Oh,
Adam Curry: wow. You mean like triggering a flashing light in
your studio? Like I was at Burberry, who has been doing
that?
Dave Jones: Anything like that, um, anything that can receive a
web hook? You could watch him wired up. It's okay, Eric.
pushed to Umbral start non yet, but it's in the code. Okay. Oh,
that's awesome. Mr. Eric P. P. Yes. This is gonna get really
fun.
Adam Curry: Oh, you kidding me? It's gonna be fantastic. Yeah.
Oh, man. Well, this is exactly. So I can I can publish that as
an activity stream. Yes, you could. Yes, you could. Now
you're talking now you're talking? Oh,
Dave Jones: we need a web hook receiver. Somewhere on the
other. You know, the other end?
Adam Curry: Oh, that's fantastic. To do crazy. How did
I miss this? Um, must, was it in the GitHub? I didn't see it on.
He
Dave Jones: published it. I think last night. Oh, here was
my first thought. You don't need this is sort of like you a built
in boost bot.
Adam Curry: Yeah, you don't need to split anymore. You can just
tie it into something. Right?
Dave Jones: Yeah, you set up a set up a web hook to go out to
some sort of receiver and then it posts wherever you want it.
Adam Curry: To do ah, this is me. orgasmic ah, If I leave you
to that is cool by the way thank you thank you Oscar for fixing
your T O V records now I can see what songs people are boosting
Can you reply it? No not yet he wants to think about that which
is fine
Dave Jones: doesn't have a thing he's gonna have a think
Adam Curry: when he has a thing interesting things come out I
have for some reason and you grommet can't get it to work
right? I'm not sure. And I it's way beyond my my knowledge. I
see him trying. But it's not coming through yet. And I'm not
sure why. He's
Dave Jones: just not he's not pushing hard enough.
Adam Curry: Exactly. Exactly. Try harder.
Dave Jones: Spreaker Spreaker Yeah, about pod. They flipped
the switch on pod thing now.
Adam Curry: It's been interesting because I've been
watching pod Pink Dot Watch. And they got a lot of foreign
podcasts. I see a lot of Spanish language see all kinds of stuff
flying through a lot of Arabic too. Yeah, I've seen that as
well as I mean, are there is any of the like the big networks
like any of those guys on it?
Dave Jones: What do you mean big networks?
Adam Curry: I don't know like I heart or something like that is
it feels like I'm the one of those big companies is using
Spreaker I could be wrong.
Dave Jones: Maybe that was it? No. They've got a lot of feeds.
They like 350,000 feeds now, how
Adam Curry: did they? How did they come to this decision? Who
was it Spurlock who was pushing them? Because I know that he was
the first one to know about it.
Dave Jones: Oh, earpiece was Spreaker is IRC.
Adam Curry: Yes. My thought is our company.
Dave Jones: The unknown unknown. Spurlock had talked to him, but
then I think this originally I think it originated with Franco.
Celerio actually, really? Because they're I think they're
an Italian company. Maybe wrong. List. I think Brooker knows
them. Oh, I know he knows somebody that works there. I'm
not I can't say for sure. They're an Italian company. But
I know Franco that's buddies with a guy who is sort of high
up there. And he because he got me in touch with him. Because
this has probably been about a year ago Spreaker started
blocking our aggregators, right? I remember that for giving us 14
nines is our re asked for him. I had a contact Franco's like oh,
yeah, one of my friends is works there. So he hooked me up. And
we started talking. And the guys are the guys there are super
nice.
Adam Curry: And why were they blocking us? Because they just
didn't know what we were. Yeah,
Dave Jones: they just it was just a automatic thing. They saw
too much traffic and it started blocking. So I asked him, I was
like, Can you whitelist us? And they did, which was fine. And I
said, Well, you know, it would be great if you could do pod
paying, because then I would I wouldn't have to pull you at
all. And then they were like, yeah, we'll do it. And I didn't
hear back from them for months. And then all of a sudden they
were they sent me an email the other day, and we're like, yeah,
we got it built. We're ready to flip it on. Can we go? I was
like, yeah, yeah, go what's so what's so
Adam Curry: cool. And I I promoted this on no agenda
yesterday, is that all those podcasts now can tell their
audiences? Hey, if you want to, if you want to know within 90
seconds of us posting the new show, instead of waiting 30
minutes, 15 minutes, 45 minutes. Get one of these modern podcast
apps. Totally. That's the beauty of it in my mind.
Dave Jones: If for people who may not know how pod ping duck,
so pod ping runs on the hive blockchain in that's all that's
all set up. It does. Brian's got a set to do resource allocation
as needed. And these kinds of things much a bunch of voodoo
that I don't understand. But essentially, it runs on the
public health blockchain. But what most the way most people
interact with POD paying is through piping dot cloud. So
that's where all the big hosting companies are. They're sending
their pod pings to piping dot cloud, which then posts it to
the blockchain, which then everybody can read. So it's sort
of like you get a, you get a you get an authentication token. And
then you can post to pod bean dot cloud and we take care of,
of the
Adam Curry: who's running that. Are we running pod pod Pink Dot
cloud? Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah. So it's code. The Hive writer is code that
that Alex run the Alex built in then. Then I built the web layer
on top of it. And so it's just basically a web webservice that
takes people's pod pings and converts them to the hive writer
and then writes it to the blockchain.
Adam Curry: So it's also on IPFS. Right. IPFS version, I saw
Dave Jones: what that was, that was a test we were doing of IPFS
of Pub Sub overloud p2p, that's that they actually rip that
feature out of IPFS. Oh, really?
Adam Curry: Good way to go, guys. Yeah.
Dave Jones: And so, but we're looking, we're, we're actively
thinking about ways to get around that and do some sort of
gossip or p2p. But the reason I bring that all that up about the
structure, the way it's built is that pod ping dot Cloud has five
servers. It's got one in the western US, Central US, eastern
US, one in Europe and one in Australia. So there's five
global servers, those
Adam Curry: are servers like, yeah, podcasts index. Oh, wow.
No idea. Awesome.
Dave Jones: You don't get the Cloudflare bill every month.
Adam Curry: No, I see it, I see it.
Dave Jones: I see it. Okay. The so then, so there's five of
those servers. And they're, they're very cheap. They're only
each one of them is only a $5. NANOG is the face to $5 a month
Linode. VM, very cheap. And they can handle like, a gazillion pod
pings. You know, an hour. I mean, it's just like the, the
headroom that they have is, is amazing. And then there's a load
balancer in front of it through Cloudflare. So that it gets geo
geo location load balanced to the closest pod thing server for
whoever sending the pod bay. And what was interesting is when
Spreaker came online, historically, one of the one of
the slowest pod things servers and globally is the European
server. And it it just never had much traffic. But as soon as
Spreaker came online, like that thing is just killing it. Oh,
Adam Curry: it's doing over 1000 pod pings an hour.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's it it lit up like be like a Christmas
tree. I mean, like it's now. So now Europe. Yeah. And that was
just cool to see. Because it's like, now there's even
distribution going on. Now. Now, Australia, Australia doesn't
have a whole lot of traffic. But it's, it's always had more than
Europe. And now there's this nice even load that's going on
across across things. Anyways, it's just cool to see it's cool
to see the whole thing function. I mean, in the last year,
there's only been one hiccup. And it really wasn't that big of
a deal. We the I forgot I forgot even what the problem was,
though. I had to reboot a couple of servers and one server ended
up picking up a lot more load than it should have. I'm gonna
give you the whole load. Control European load couldn't resist.
And anyway, it's just the thing is rock solid. Yeah, that's
beautiful. Congratulations
Adam Curry: to all you guys for putting that together and keep
Makino for you. And Brian and Alex, Alex. Yeah, that's, that's
so cool. That's so
Dave Jones: in the hive watcher for people who want that's. So
that's all the publishing side of the people who want to watch
pod paying for, for changes like the way pod painter watched us.
The GitHub repo has the code in it. It's the pod ping dash
watcher repo. And it's got instructions and everything.
It's very stable. Now, Alex made some changes to it recently. And
it's very, it's very stable.
Adam Curry: Now you can do if you're a developer, you can do a
lot of cool stuff with this. You could build your own index, I
guess you'll be missing. Lipson, but now
Dave Jones: there's a few Yeah. Lipson is two weeks. There'll be
done in two weeks. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah. sometime next year. Oh, that was last year.
I'm sorry.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so anyway, that's cool.
Adam Curry: That's very cool. I I met a guy two weeks ago, he
came through the I was interviewed on the thank God for
Bitcoin podcast. And, and Jordan over there said how you got to
meet this guy, Zach. He's got something going on. And so Zach,
this was amazing. Because it came to Jordan like yeah, I'll
talk to the guy and he set up this thing called indie hubbed
dot studio. And and so you know, he has he has a story. He's out
in LA and
Dave Jones: he started spell it is indie e Yeah, i
Adam Curry: n d e Hu b dot studio. I don't know if it's
publicly available yet. Let me see in the hub.
Dave Jones: There's a page there. Yeah. Let me see. I mean,
it helped liberate the art of filmmaking. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So He, he, he did this demo for me and it was
phenomenal. So he says, Okay, here's your, you know, here,
here's your film. And of course, it was a dummy film. And he
showed me on on screenshare. Right on on a zoom. And, and he
said, you have an lb wall. Yep. He said, Okay, what's your lb
wall and he was adamant, get lb.com. And then he, he hits
play. And you literally see his wallet on the screen start to
receive SAS and mine. I'm like, this is genius. This is exactly
what we've done. Only a little differently. So he around the
same time that we came up with, you know, the value blocks and
everything. He came up with this idea out of frustration, because
he says that the amount of people the amount of independent
films that are submitted to what's the big one there in
Colorado? blanking on it now. The big one. Yeah. The big
independent movie, Film Festival.
Dave Jones: Come on Sundance,
Adam Curry: Sundance. Do you how many movies are submitted each
year?
Dave Jones: Oh, gosh, it's got to be so many. What do you think
just
Adam Curry: just as a
Dave Jones: that's a I would say probably 2500.
Adam Curry: More like 14,000 Oh,
Dave Jones: my gosh, how he there's no way you could ever
show that many movies. And
Adam Curry: you know, and I know filmmakers and you know, it's
it's horrible. They, you know, especially documentarian, they
can't get listed. Amazon takes all your money. I mean, it's
it's horrible that it's really there. It's worse than the music
business. Yeah, it is. Yeah. So he set this up out of
frustration around but you know, so he went a little. He
basically outsourced all the development. And so they are
running everything through the strike API. Which is
interesting. So but it's very centralized, because you you you
submit your your wallet details to him, you upload to him. He
does the splits everything. And so I say, Oh, look at our demo.
And I show him the exact same thing basically goes like what?
I said, Yes. I said, here's the difference. You can or less
Yeah, I said with some retooling you kit. I mean, it was like a
replay of wave Lake. Like an exact replay. Yeah. And what's
cool is, and I explained, I said, you know, this is what
happened with Wave lake. And then we said, look, you need to
get this into RSS feeds, you need to get into the indexing to
put in value blocks, you know, we've pulled them along, and
they've got they've come quite far.
Dave Jones: Medium equals film. Yeah,
Adam Curry: exactly. And, and I said, you know, beauty, you know
how to talk to filmmakers. This is why you're perfect. So
here's, you know, I would recommend, Zach, don't try to do
everything yourself. But leave it up to the apps to ingest all
this, you know, to be the playout system. We already have
four or five to do video very nicely. And you just talk to the
filmmakers and help them set up the splits and everything and
he's on board.
Dave Jones: Yes Is ways wave lake for for independent
Adam Curry: fulfilling? Yeah. So I mean, this is why I'm why
going back to the conversation, the beginning, this is
happening. And most of you out there who are developing X apps
are young enough to see the success Dave and I will be dead.
When it all comes to fruition. Remember when we put them out?
Why do you say you know, this is happening? Concerts, all of this
is taking place in our lifetime? And you know, don't worry, don't
worry, be happy. Don't worry about the you know about the big
mass and everyone has to know about don't worry about it's
gonna happen. A took years for podcasting to grab hold. It'll
take a while. Yeah, but just like you said, with whatever's
coming next for the technology industry, this will happen,
something will happen. Some piece of undeniably cool content
will be available through this system. And everybody will flock
to it, is it this is life. This is just how it happens is how
things work. I've seen it happen time and time again.
Dave Jones: And it's usually a secret ingredient to something
that already exists. You have no
Adam Curry: idea you really have no idea what it is. Yes, it's
amazing to me.
Dave Jones: You look back and you're like Oh, dammit What
didn't I see? What it always the way it always works? Yeah.
That's cool. I'm liking this because, you know, because Alex
is trying to lead this charge with no agenda to for a long
time in But I mean, it's like that's it, the technologies
Adam Curry: are there. And this and this guy will need no agenda
tube like functionality, because you know, he doesn't know what a
bandwidth bill is yet more storage. But the cool thing is
he understands how to talk to filmmakers.
Dave Jones: That's what that's the ingredient. Yeah,
Adam Curry: wavelength guys know how to talk to musicians and
artists. Right? It doesn't mean that that doesn't discredit RSS,
blue, or pod home, or self hosting or or music side doesn't
discredit that
Dave Jones: at all. No, no, no.
Adam Curry: I mean, I use graphene OS because I want to
have different things working on my phone the way I want to, but
there's always going to be a market for that. But to
kickstart things off to get things going you and these
people are coming to us that come to coming into our system.
Dave Jones: The the the radio receivers, the podcast apps are
already there. It's just it makes things. It just makes
things a lot easier when you want to write that side of it.
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. And you know, James wrote a very
thoughtful article as a radio futurologist. Which I, which I
did want to say something about the title of is why overcast is
more than just a podcast player. And I think he really hit it on
the head with something that I hadn't even really considered.
And that's the voice boost. And I just want to put out there
that I think he's right. See, I'm a I'm against silence
choppers. I'm against speed listening, I think it's bad for
your health. I'm against all of that. However, he wrote in this
article. Voice boost by itself is an excellent feature. Because
of podcasting is open nature, the app is literally playing the
sound file direct from the podcast hosting company. So
there's no opportunity for podcast apps to do any form of
quality control. This is not something fully understood by my
broadcast friends, who assumed there is some form of ingestion
process. Yeah. And and his answer is for you to this is a
very good point. I, I use podcast guru as my go to lately,
and it has a voice boost. And but but it's I think the voice
boost on overcast has little more processing than just a
volume boost. And I guess my point is, there's more to why
people use apps than just your UI. Yes, view is super
important. Don't get me wrong, but there's a lot of subtle
things that I hadn't even considered. And, and I know from
my own experience, that for a while for the last 10 years, for
sure. People say to me, no agenda has the best sound. Now,
if you listen to no agenda on the radio, you'd go nuts. But,
but I process it for earbuds this is this is my and I use
similar processing for this podcast. I process it for
earbuds and I process it so that you know it's you know, I don't
want background sound which is you know, we don't have
professional studios. So I use noise gating and there's always
people like, the noise gates sucks. It's Poppins. I don't
like it. But in general, people say wow, you know, you've ruined
You've ruined my podcast listening by the sound that you
that you produce. So I just want to tell people who are creating
apps that's important too.
Dave Jones: That's a good point because the is the voice. The
voice boost in overcast, I believe is compression.
Adam Curry: Thalia? It's compression, EQ, there's some
there's some. I mean, I don't have an iPhone, so I can't
evaluate it. But I know I know that. It's doing something
beyond just, you know, plush 3d Bees.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's yeah, it's more than just jacking the
volume up. Because when you just check the volume up the you make
the loud guy too loud. And the soft guys actually is okay. But
if you what you want is for them to be both at the same volume.
And I don't know. I know overcast, is one of the maybe
only if not very few. I want to say maybe the only one who runs
the app has its own audio engine
Adam Curry: doesn't cast thematic everyone cast
Dave Jones: thematic may as well you have Franco Yeah, you're
right. I think Franco also has his own. So like, so when you
play when you play an audio file back using using overcast it's
actually decoding the mp3 directly thrown frame by frame.
Oh, wow. So it gets it's it has a chance. It's it's in the
pipeline and it has a chance to do some of those magical things.
Adam Curry: I think James really nailed it here. I mean, this
Yeah, people don't realize why they like that app. They don't
realize it, but it just feels good for some reason it feels
good to them. And I think that's a big part of it.
Dave Jones: Well, in your in going back to the India thing
and the WaveLight thing, that's, that's one of the things that
you that you get the advantage of there's somebody already has
a built an app that they like, you don't have to convince them
to change, you just publish through RSS, right? And you
don't you don't have to, you don't have to write your own
app. And then you don't have to put you don't have to convince
somebody to change apps. Now somebody may want to change apps
eventually to something else for a specific piece of content like
somebody may think this this other app is better at playing
music or but better to playing film. But they can start where
they're at Yeah, they don't have to Yes Yeah, nothing that's a
really good point. And in this again, the power of RSS is that
these it does not force everybody in the one thing
exactly.
Adam Curry: Oh, boy, I'd love talking just with you sometimes.
Dave Jones: It's it's nice if as long as they don't come home and
have to rebuild my computer within 15 minutes to play on
Windows 11 The whole thing just feels
Adam Curry: so weird. We play a song for a minute just take a
little breather for a second
Dave Jones: let's do it all right
Adam Curry: all right. I know I like this yeah I don't know if
I've played these guys on our show before but I played them on
boosted grandpa I really like what they're doing and their way
into value for value playing now in podcasting 2.0 This is the
trusted Millennium remember to boost
Unknown: cells to give children around a one that just no one's
cry just cry with
ease is one of these awards such as just
want to be seen
one ever want to see you tonight?
was so much to do not enough to teach
Hi, this is Amy
Adam Curry: I just love that. I love those guys. And I was
right. I played it on February 2 Dobie das popped into the chat
and he of course has been tracking all these things on RSS
Buddha comm slash top. And that's another thing. You know,
I love these what I call 2.0 native podcast hosts. Yeah,
Dave Jones: yes. That's pretty rare. It's pretty rare because
you have somebody who's like, hey, I want to do an audio book.
It's like, oh, well, here I got a host for you. Exactly.
Adam Curry: Exactly. Yeah, is read. Yes. That's the right
word. That's the right word. It's Read. Read. Totally read,
bro. Exactly.
Dave Jones: Oh, well. Thanks for people.
Adam Curry: Ah yeah hold on a second what is going on here?
Why is this thing
Dave Jones: is my is my computer NO NO
Adam Curry: NO NO my No my for some reason let me see if I can
reset this that's odd
Dave Jones: one thing I've been trying to be careful of is that
I'm afraid that my I'm afraid that my computer audio may be
may come back through to you and I don't but I don't know for
sure so I've been trying not not to touch anything because on the
on the on the on the Ubuntu box it would not do that. I'm not
sure if this does or not
Adam Curry: something really weird happened for some reason
it's the split kid is now is now broadcasting songs we're not
playing but yeah, I know I know right? What what Okay, no, I
have no idea why it's doing that let me see if I can stop this
nonsense that's very very odd All right. Why don't you want to
start boy this is bad I don't know how to stop it. Stop stops
Dave Jones: getting somebody's getting set up right?
Adam Curry: Yes, we are value for value. I'm going to kick it
off with Let me see. Oh boy, we got some live books which are
worth mentioning. herbivore band 3333 They also recently did a
live lit and value for value gig thanks Adam for fixing up winds
of change in the index and and playing on boosted Rambo
returning back some value. Thank you. It's my pleasure. Blueberry
3333 Adam glad you mentioned the credit roll at the end of movies
that was the chosen probably the thing I'm most hands down
excited for about our concert is right blueberries doing Google
he's doing a concert where he's gonna He's gonna come in on the
show in April to talk about it
Dave Jones: Yeah, we Yeah movies coming on the show cool.
Adam Curry: Most thing um, hands down I'm most excited about for
our concert as the stream will conclude with a full credit roll
with all producers are donated being listed as associate slash
executive producers very nice. Nice, lavish with 11,111. A
boost is a thank for the Aynsley show being as sharp as it was
time and talent indeed. And then of course is the $100,000 booths
from Sam Sethi. We appreciate you Sam 1111 from upbeats salty
crayon as usual. The noster farts sniffing Bitcoin bros.
Taking a crap on V for V and time talent and treasure because
they never did the ask great points for Oscar. Indeed.
There's another blueberry 11,111 There's so much to say about
this upcoming concert stream of 12 rods April 6 Aygo,
scoreboards disco balls. It's going to be lit in app fam. We
need help getting funds together for lightning package. The more
info and the substack article by a bank. I don't know what that
means. can be found at live is lit.com. All right. Okay,
dutiful. Eric p p 3333. Just came in. Thank you very much.
Dave Jones: It's webhooks. Ready? Yeah.
Adam Curry: And Steve Webb, you get the Steve Webb one. I'll
read it just in case.
Dave Jones: Maybe
Adam Curry: he sent 33,777 sets. That's like a lucky slash
striper boost. Thanks Adam and Dave for helping me sort out the
magic wallet switching glitch on the feed for my Lifespring music
show. 2.0 Kudos also to Mike della blueberry. It took a lot
of back and forth emails but with all us guys help the go
sign is lit May God bless you richly and go podcasting. And
then we have one more that came in from Mike Newman Millennium
as debuted on phantom power music our and it's a mood on
January 26. Love was let go podcasting indie boy. It's a
mood go podcasting. Thank you very much.
Dave Jones: Get a Pay Pal from Oscar Mary. On the show last
week. $200.
Adam Curry: Nice.
Dave Jones: Thank you Oscar. He knows he explained value for
value and then he did value for value.
Unknown: Okay, I'm gonna give him a big Bala. Sakala 20 is
Blaze on am Paula shoot you both. Thank you so
Dave Jones: much. And then we got pod verse. Mitch and the
boys over there. $50 Mitch,
Adam Curry: thank you, boys. Thank you so much.
Dave Jones: And then I hope you're doing well. Mitch,
wouldn't you need to have Mitch on the show? So definitely rent.
Randall black we get a new $5 month subscription from Randall
no note from him. Thank you, Randy. Thank you. I appreciate
guests and booths. We got Gina Ever it through fountain nice
3333 Says Joe Rogan videos on YouTube again. We could go every
episode posts starting five days ago, and there's a way to figure
it out as people, all my friends like Rogan and nine out of 10
Watch not listen, even though it's annoying to get video while
it's been Spotify only they all watched last. They all watched
last on YouTube. That's,
Adam Curry: I guess where they were talking about if he was
back on YouTube.
Dave Jones: Yes, right. Oh, we got 3333 from herbivore band.
Oh, fro through fountain he says Would Love Live video support
through I would like that too. And
Adam Curry: yeah, we did we ask Oscar about that. And he was
like, no, no, no, he wasn't too sure.
Dave Jones: He wasn't big on it. But I mean, you developers, they
do what they're,
Adam Curry: they do what they want to do. They do what they
want to do. That's right. Yeah. And
Dave Jones: if when it if there's content there, there's
enough and compelling enough and people need it. I'm sure he
would do it. Yes. Jean been 2222 through cast Matic. He says Jean
Everett isn't me. I enjoyed last week's show quite a lot. Wasn't
me though. I apologize gene being I get you I get gene bein
and Gene Everett mix up. Oh, my apologies. Oh, boy. See
anonymous. 500 SATs says this song slaps. Whatever it was,
we're happy to like to. Yes. Source de 1701 Star Trek boost.
Thank you. Source day. Appreciate that. Again, Sir
Brian of London a 11948. A super Israeli found founding boost.
It's a big Lucasta Matic NaVi says, I'm in Hadera in the
middle of Israel at a robot competition, but my phone is
telling me I'm in Beirut at the airport again.
Adam Curry: They're messing with GPS over there, man. They're
doing a lot of weird stuff.
Dave Jones: IP address geolocation is so sketchy. We do
so as part of part of Office 365. And these kinds of things
that most enterprises use, it will alert you when somebody
which is extremely beneficial, it will alert you when somebody
logs in from a new location. That's not that's out of the
ordinary for them. Sort of, it'll say it'll, you'll get an
alert that says, you know, hey, this person's never, you know,
is always in the same late place. But now all of a sudden
they're logging in rip RIP, RIP rip danger. Will Robert Wingham
Yeah, now they're logging in from Rotterdam. He's like, whoa,
okay,
Adam Curry: problem problem.
Dave Jones: But this hat, but this gets triggered false alarms
all the time. Because these geolocation just know, moved.
Yeah, the IP address blocks get moved around a lot and they just
like, Yeah, you can't trust this stuff at all. To see another
anonymous five 500 says thank you for the for the song we
played last week. 20 c 23,000. Set Wait. Whoa, is this the
delimiter?
Adam Curry: Yes, I think it is. I saw it come in Yeah. From CSB.
Dave Jones: Okay. You read the okay. You read the Steve Webb.
Yeah, gotcha. Yep. And then we got one from Chris last 10,000
SATs through fountain he says great chat. I'm really impressed
with the direction of fountain they're building. I'm really
impressed with the direction of fountain they're building.
They're building something special. But what he wrote was
what autocorrected probably was their building trumping special.
Oh,
Adam Curry: yeah. Well, we know what you're doing. Yes, we know
what you're typing. Uh huh. Yeah, and camp can't fool us.
Bruh
Dave Jones: busted. Okay. Comic Strip blogger 23,000 sets.
Fountain is the delimiter he says, howdy, Dave and Adam,
complex candour podcast at WWW dot complex. candour.com is the
place where armchair philosophy meets the Liberty minded lady,
Vox and Sam tackle a variety of topics from both historical and
strategic standpoints discussing how we got to this place and how
we might think our way out of it. Welcome to the complex yo
zsp.
Adam Curry: Joe CSB.
Dave Jones: Thank you enjoy the sunshine CSB.
Adam Curry: But he was enjoying this this sunshine. I saw you. I
saw you talk to him about that. It's brighter in Poland. Thank
you all so much. Do we have anything else or is that all of
our that's
Dave Jones: all of our booze monthly? Have you noticed the
boosts slow down and become smaller when Bitcoin goes up to
70,000?
Adam Curry: Well, I'm not sure if that's I mean, having done
value for value for 16 years. After Christmas. It slows down
to around around this time it starts to pick up again. I don't
know if it's related to the price per se, I'm not sure.
Dave Jones: monthlies pod page. Oh, $25
Adam Curry: Thank you, ma'am. Yeah, no, I use this stuff a
lot. I love it.
Dave Jones: Pfeiffer's right tax returns it. That's a killer to
new media $1 Thinking new media. That's Martin Landeskog. Mark
Graham $1 Thank you Mark. Just maraca $5. Emilio Kendall Molina
$4, Lauren ball $24.20 and basil Phillip $25.
Adam Curry: Well, thank you all very much your group we are
value for value, would we talk about it throughout the whole
show, but I'll just remind you, that the podcast, the servers,
everything runs on the value returned to the project. And
Dave, and I take none of it. We just keep it in on the node,
particularly the Satoshis. And we keep everything on AutoPay.
So the servers will keep running if we fall down dead. We hope
it'll be
Dave Jones: fun to see once we die. How long have the servers
were run until like, we're just not getting we're not giving
anybody any passwords?
Adam Curry: No, he's just gonna No, no. Hey, you know, you might
as well download that database just in case. You never
Dave Jones: know grabbing it until at the very end, go to
podcast. Curious I Voyager One, it's still it's still taken out
there.
Adam Curry: Yeah, barely it, send them pings. Go to podcast
index.org. Down at the bottom you'll see two red donate
buttons one for your Fiat fun coupons. We we of course, accept
your pay pals. But we love your arm on chain, a tally coin. No
one today. But you know, maybe one of those guys who are
getting rid of 1000 Bitcoins. And we're on our way you never
know, which is good karma. Good Karma. And of course, what we
really love is when you boost us because that is the full circle
of value for value with the feedback loop. We'd love reading
your booster grams. And you can get a modern podcast app at
podcast apps.com.
Do we need to talk about fair defying at all?
Dave Jones: Fair to saying yeah, you
Adam Curry: know the activity pub stuff and you know where
we're at? Because, you know, we kind of stopped talking about
it. Because basically, you know where it's working? Is it just
do we need to is there anything we need to do about it, just
just let it run? What's the next step in this process?
Dave Jones: I think from now, I had, I think I just paused it.
Because this is a busy time of year for me. And it was mostly
done. And it just runs. And then also needed to do some bigger
things as I need to, to to return to the index and to the
namespace to do some stuff. And that was kind of getting
neglected because I was over there in activity pub world for
so long. Like one of those things I've been needing to do
is make a way for you to change a feed URL and the index. Oh,
yeah, I
Adam Curry: saw that. Thank you so much. That's one of the few
things that I was frustrated about that I couldn't help
people with. Yeah, that's really good.
Dave Jones: Is it like it's like little niggling things like
that, that are just like, you know, they really need to be
done. But it's always been like at the bottom of this long list.
So I got I'm doing those things. Yes. Therapy, right keys and
addresses. Gonna take care of the fee stuff. And then
Adam Curry: what's the queue send out? Oh, you mean? Yeah. In
the namespace that change? Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah, yeah, some of those things that are just like,
they're not big, huge changes, but they they're just they just
to do thing, their to do list items.
Adam Curry: You know, I love having, of course, I'm on the
info at podcast index.org email alias. So I love it when people
send stuff and like, hey, how do I fix this? And then I have the
power to fix it. And I'm like, Oh, thank you. I'm so happy.
This is so awesome. You guys rock. Yeah, always makes me feel
really good. So now that I can, you know, I was like I was
helping Steve Webb with his with his 2.0 feed. I did that on your
list as well to show values time value splits. I know. It's like
not like you don't have enough to do already.
Dave Jones: It's not on my to do list. And now it's somebody
else. Someone else could put that on the to do list. I'll
tell you one thing with the website that is on my to do list
is following and podcast in, in the fediverse from the website
to where you can like,
Adam Curry: oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
Dave Jones: Because the code and everything is already there
based on what Nathan and Geller me and those guys did back then.
So you can just like, I'm just gonna have to rearrange some of
that code to get it to where you can say like, I want to follow
this person and activity, this podcast activity pub, and then
it pops up and asks you for your instance and all that and
Adam Curry: yeah, back and forth. Now that's cool. That's
cool. Yeah, yeah, I mean, with that, combined with the pod
ping, people can basically build their own index. Just so it in
by
Dave Jones: which we can talk about this.
Adam Curry: And before you do that, I want to say two things.
One, I'm looking for web hooks, so I can point our podcasts and
2.0 helipad feed to it. Or web hook thing, whatever. So if you
got an idea, send that to me, too. I've written down exactly
zero show titles. No. So I need to show title boardroom. All
right? Well, you want to talk about
Dave Jones: I had somebody contact me through podcast
index, email, and somebody from a one of these large language
model AI companies that ever I think most people would know the
name, I'm not going to say it. But they contacted me about
getting all the episode data out of the index. And so, you know,
typically, we don't do that, because it's 120 million
episodes, it's 150 Gig database table. So we don't make that
available. But if people ask for it, I will give it to them. And
typically, we'll ask them, you know, for at least some sort of
donation to cover the fee, the egress fees. Because it's big,
it's a big, yeah, it's big. And if somebody if somebody started
says, hey, you know, I want this an ongoing basis, you know, I
want to support it. We've done that for people before where,
you know, I'll make it available to them in an object storage
bucket. And they can, what do they want? Why
Adam Curry: did they want that? What what did they want to do?
Dave Jones: I'm sure they just want to, I don't know, for a
fact, but I'm sure they want to ingest it into their large
language model. Descriptions and transcripts and all that kind of
stuff. Got it? Sure. That's what it's for. And I guess, you know,
and of course, I mean, I'm, I'm not going to say no, I mean,
this, we give this We exist to give this stuff away, and it's
free out there. So, you know, if somebody wants it, I'm glad to
get him. I'm not gonna say, Oh, we don't like you. That's not
gonna do.
Adam Curry: But you still don't you still don't give them the
email addresses in that right? Oh,
Dave Jones: no, no, no, no, we don't get that stuff. So anyway,
I just told him, I just told this person what I tell
everybody and like, Well, hey, you know, if you want, I'm glad
to give it to you. You know, if you want it on an ongoing basis,
you know, I'd appreciate some sort of donation to come nib to
cover our costs and value for value and that kind of thing.
And because obviously, if you want it on a repeated basis, it
must be valuable. So think about, you know, consider
donating. But I guess I just wondered, Is there is that cool?
I mean, is that is, you know, to
Adam Curry: do that? Do you mean to ask us for a donation? Or
what what do you
Dave Jones: not ask for a donation? But no, I don't have a
problem with that. But because I mean, we can't make them and I'm
still gonna give it to them regardless. I mean, it's not
like that. But I guess, is it cool to give all this data to
one of these large language model? Companies like that? Is
there any mmm missing an ethical thing here? I don't think I am.
I mean, it's just is what it is. Right? I
Adam Curry: don't think so either. I mean, the best thing
that could happen is, someone says, I'm going to set up a
better index. Yeah, that's, I guess the best thing that could
happen?
Dave Jones: Well, if they set up a better index, I'll start using
it. Yeah, exactly.
Adam Curry: That's my point. That's my point. So I mean,
that's, that's kind of the beauty. The beauty of it. I
don't know, well, if anyone has any.
Dave Jones: It was just an interesting thing. Because it's,
I mean, this is I think this is a well funded company. I don't
know how much they're valued at. But I mean, it's, it's a big,
well known company. And it's all public data. I don't feel like
there's anything
Adam Curry: weird about, they're going to train an LLM, they're
going to spend a lot of money building that LLM. So good luck
to them, I guess. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's who knows what
will come out of it. I'm sure it won't be any better than Google
barf, or Gemini, whatever. It's called now. Copilot. I mean,
czar, right. If you know, but yeah, you would hope that they
would support us for that.
Dave Jones: Yeah. I mean, if they don't, they probably didn't
find it valuable. moved on. Yeah. Yeah, I would think I
mean, this stuff is difficult. There's so much data in those
podcasts, show notes and all that garbage. Man.
Adam Curry: I could just good luck with that. That's really
what you say. Sure. Good luck. Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah. And I don't you know, I don't ever want to
like facilitate somebody doing something creepy, but this does
have, I guess, system and feel that way.
Adam Curry: Now do they say that worse for an LLM?
Dave Jones: Do I mean that's the whole thing this company does.
Okay. All right. Yes, their whole business model so I'm
assuming that's what it's for. I mean, if it was for some if it
was like a you know, some kind of like newsguard A Global
Engagement centers and doesn't like that this like this. We're
gonna look for misinformation. Yeah, no, no, that'd be like, go
get it yourself. Yeah, but, but that didn't feel like what this
was.
Adam Curry: Well, we trust you. We trust your judgment
Dave Jones: is a terrible thing to I don't even trust much.
Adam Curry: Hey, brother. We started late, but I know you got
to get back to the office. It's a busy time for you. So shall we
call it? Let's call it Okay, everybody. That's right. We're
gonna end it right here. That's it for the board meeting. Love
to see you back next week on Friday, same time, same place
podcasting 2.0.
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index dashboard for more information,
go podcast.
Adam Curry: You blew a billion bucks.