Adam Curry: Oh, casting 2.0 for March 22 2024 Episode 172
tantalizing liquid Hey everybody, welcome once again,
Friday is right. It is time for podcasting point oh the board
meeting all the directors are in the board room it's time to look
at the future of podcasting, whatever happened in the past
and all the stuff that's happening right now because it
is here that we discuss it. This is the boardroom that stock sets
and provides liquidity I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the
Texas Hill Country and in Alabama ladies he's the man to
find your spam especially if you pod ping him say hello to my
friend on the other end here he is Mr. Die
Dave Jones: oh crap Hang on. I'll be right back
Adam Curry: all right, ladies. Standby. He's gonna be here in
just a minute. He's missed a day.
Unknown: Jones No.
Adam Curry: Oh, there he is. Just a day.
Dave Jones: I got I got my paper. I forgot to lift my paper
right next to the coffee. Oh, for lunch dropped my keys in my
in my case, notes straight
Adam Curry: into your studio into the Batcave ready to go and
Oh, no. He
Dave Jones: has a lot of sweaty I'm gonna get show D
Adam Curry: did you get your your popcorn did you get your
yet? You got your beef milkshake? I
Dave Jones: got the milkshake. I got the base. No shape. I didn't
get at it. No popcorn today. No, but I did get. Oh, we got a
piece of chocolate and some yogurt. Sorry, I
Adam Curry: did something wrong, too. Oh, boy. I'm sorry, people.
I forgot. Yeah, we got to start showing her. No, but I do that.
We have no time for that. I gotta I gotta hit the piping.
Thank you. Okay, there we go. Okay, that should alert
everybody that we're started now. It'd be like, Hey, man, you
started without telling me.
Dave Jones: I like I like how Eric just posts the tag. Here.
Adam Curry: Like, what is he? Oh, I see it pending. Yeah,
that's my mistake. There you go. Sorry about that.
Dave Jones: Here. Let me make it easy for you. There's the XML
tag fully formed. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Just to let you know, hey, by the way, I just
got to start off. I'm really happy today. I've discovered
after many years of trying it. Thunderbird is awesome.
Dave Jones: This Thunderbird is the thing that frustrates me
every week. It's
Adam Curry: so it just became awesome for me.
Dave Jones: Oh, wait, okay, wait until it eats up 12 gigs of disk
space and shuts your node down? Well,
Adam Curry: well, you got to make sure that you know, you set
your IMAP settings properly that you don't cache all of your
email. What's great is when you which everybody loves which by
the way is a default and is very bad. I'm gonna say that right up
front.
Dave Jones: True. My mind loves to compact your database. Yeah,
it's it's a favorite thing.
Adam Curry: I haven't gotten to that yet. The reason why it's
here's the reason why I'm using an actually we've been using
rain loop on my mind. It's, it's a web client on my on my next
cloud, which I like a lot.
Dave Jones: Or a mil. It's a
Adam Curry: front end. It's basically an IMAP front end. But
what I don't what it doesn't do well at all is GPG or PGP which
I know I like open GPG. So encryption, and I don't know if
we talked about this, but about two or three weeks ago, proton
mail, which a lot of people use, and a lot of people who email me
with no agenda related show stuff. They're like, well, this
is safe, which of course it isn't, I mean, you know, it's
safe, because it's in Switzerland, but because I have
my public key in my signature address protonmail switch
something. And by default, if it recognizes an email address that
they know has a key, it encrypts the email from the sender on
protonmail, which is really a very good thing. Because people
didn't even know it was happening. And all of a sudden,
I'm getting all these encrypted emails from protonmail. But of
course, my my, my web client didn't have a very efficient way
of dealing with that. And you know, and then it would decrypt
it, it would break links, you know, that kind of stuff. So it
was horrible.
Dave Jones: And so you're saying that protonmail now has some way
of like hooking into like a, like a directory of GPG keys.
Adam Curry: Yeah, what they do is if they see if it if the
system sees that you're sending to an email address that has a
verified public key, and I verified my public key with the
key server, then it automatically encrypts any
outgoing email from proton mail to that to that recipient and I
tested it with Mark avoid zero. And because I'm like, wait a
minute, are they encrypting this internally? And it turns out the
minute you type in my email address, it flips on the the
encryption and so anything you put in that email will then be
encrypted end to end. A really good thing.
Dave Jones: No, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Adam Curry: I mean, there's reasons why Gmail doesn't do
that. Hello, three letter agencies, they don't really want
to encourage any of that any of that nonsense going on.
Dave Jones: And I have my I have my doubts about signal encrypted
chat as well. Oh, oh, yeah. I don't know. That that one feels
like there's a lot of reasons to make me think that that is not
as secure as we think it is.
Adam Curry: Well, it's also you know, your phone what's running
on your phone? What's what is our screengrabs being done? I
mean, that's what I always enjoy about a lot of these. A lot of
the lightning the wallet apps is though explicitly turn off all
kinds of stuff, no clipboard, no screenshots. And so that someone
can't steal your, your password, they even will jumble up PIN
code order so that they can't, you know, track pressure
sensitivity, though, I mean, it's, and now and it but of
course, I'm all jacked, and Judy about, about Thunderbird, and I
really am quite impressed with the changes. They they still has
the same old crap under the hood, but there's got some
improvements, but then I wake up this morning, and I'm like, oh,
no, Windows has rebooted and given me copilot.
Dave Jones: You get the widget and the little copilot Oh, yeah.
Do you use it? Are you trying? Have you tried it out?
Adam Curry: Oh, I tried it out right away, and it's sucked
immediately. I'm like, I'm this thing? Because of course, what
do you try it with? You try it with with a question that you
know the answer to? Yes, if I were to ask you. What book has
Jhansi Dvorak been working on for many years, but still not
finished?
Dave Jones: The vinegar? Exactly. Everybody
Adam Curry: knows that. co pilot says Jhansi Dvorak has been
working on a book titled online the book for many years, but it
remains unfinished. And so I say Nope, it's a different one. And
then it comes back. I apologize for the oversight. Thank you for
your patience. The Unfinished book you're referring to is
DeVore ag predicts John C. Dvorak co authored this book
with me then I like. It was a book about liquid if I recall
correctly. Oh, I apologize for the oversight of my previous
messages. Thank you for your patience. The Unfinished book
you're referring to is online the book by John C. Dvorak co
authored with Wendy Taylor. This intriguing book explores the
world of going online covering everything from getting your
first modem or DSL connection to selling something using online
email marketing tricks. Despite his prolonged development, the
book remains incomplete. Much like a tantalizing liquid that
refuses to take a fixed form.
Dave Jones: Give me a break, says says, Oh, crap, biggest
load of made up horseshit.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's hallucinated on my butt right
away. Right away.
Dave Jones: It's too wordy. Like, okay, so
Adam Curry: so wrong. I mean, even you know, you know the
answer to this.
Dave Jones: That's a given. That's a given. But like when,
when you said what, what book has Jhansi DeVore? I've been
working on forever and not finished? My response was the
vinegar, bro. Of course. I don't need us. I don't need a
soliloquy. Paragraph Yeah, exactly. You're gonna have to
stop that. And what everybody wants. What everybody wants from
a personal assistant, LLM enabled personal assistant, is
they want the Star Trek ships computer experience. Hey, there
you go. That's what you want to say. Hey, thingamabob,
Adam Curry: thinking about Hey, Bob, Bob. Hey, Bob.
Dave Jones: What is? Is there anything wrong on the in on the
index infrastructure right now? No, Dave, I don't see anything
wrong. That's what you want. You don't want infrastructure is
something that was coined a phrase that was coined in 1862
by so and so you don't want this a book? Well, here's what you
want a quick, snappy, here's.
Adam Curry: Yes, exactly. Now, what they do is they list all of
the sources and of course, the sources for this is wiki
Wikipedia. Home on Wikipedia, amazon.com and goodreads.com.
Now Reddit hasn't started their licensing yet. Now, it was
interesting when I said, Tell me about the value for value model
of monetization. And it spit back a reworded version of value
for value dot info and I know that because it says it right
here. That the three sources it used are value for value dot
info value for value dot info value for value dot info and
blog dot get albea.com. And it kind of it was interesting
because it it took the literal website and just reworded it
into seven bullet points, etc. And then I asked who invented
it, it came back. I mean, it's in this. So what is really doing
is it's doing searches. And it's it's hoping to hit the right
search engine, which of course, because it comes back with this
long written, now it doesn't let me parse the different hits,
which what we're used to, like, oh, this, this looks like it. Or
this looks most feasible to me. It just comes back and then
authoritatively state stuff. So for search, this is just such a
bad idea. And that, of course, is what the we talked about this
with the whole generation has grown up on is I just need to
search. I'm searching, searching for answers searching for my
life. What should I do? What should I eat? And you get and
you're just getting better worded answers with zero
opportunity for these guys to advertise. This is not going to
sustain?
Dave Jones: No, no, not at all. Now you as Did you see the did
you see the Nvidia? They've gone all in on the new they get their
new chip? It's like the GE something.
Adam Curry: Yeah. And it's, and the NVIDIA CEO is wearing
leather jackets. Now, everyone's trying to be Steve Jobs.
Dave Jones: Yeah, he's a super cool. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Now, you as a as a manager of all things in for
info info technology at your company. Are you allowing this
nonsense on your on your system? This cope? I mean, it could be
it could be scanning my drive for all I know, I don't know
what it's doing.
Dave Jones: Now, we we have, like most firms, we have
internal policies about not using these things. Until Until
the future like
Adam Curry: the future is here. Yeah. But tomorrow never comes.
Dave Jones: You can't you cannot put your stuff into this because
you don't know where it's going. You mean, but basically, we just
have a blanket restriction on all that stuff right now. Yeah,
most companies have this is pretty much across the board.
You can't use this unless it's built by inter in unless it's
built by us internally. Right, you know, and so then you could
use it, because then we know what's happening with the data
and all that kind of thing. Which, which is Microsoft's play
here. You know, they're going to tie it. They've tied, they're
tying it into office 365. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Day to day.
already.
Adam Curry: It's already popping up on on Word. Use copilot.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but the thing that like, my issue. Okay. I
realized a couple of days ago, what one of the key issues here
is for me? And I think not for me personally, but I think this
is a real issue is that the problem with these MLMs is there
they're not they do not set properly separate the data from
the model. So So the algorithm, it's like the data and the data
and the thing that generates the data is all one big blob. So
like you have to train it, you can't say, Okay, look. Here's
how people talk. And now take that and I want you to iterate
on a set of data that's over here that I give you and I want
you to tell me now I want you to analyze that data and tell me a
bunch of stuff instead what it's it's the model it contains the
data and yeah the link and the the algorithms so to speak, both
in one big blob so you have to just hear your you can't like
separate the two out it's almost like having your your JavaScript
sprinkled all throughout your HTML. This is
Adam Curry: why this is why it only works really well in
certain instances my buddy Vic is selling this like hotcakes to
help desk said phone banks companies that have you know 150
people answering phones customer service is great for that. Oh
I'm sure they just got a monkey and that monkey will be gone
soon enough once it kind of comes believable that you're
hearing a human on the other end
Dave Jones: record if you just record all of your all of your
telephone support staff if you record all those calls Yeah,
exactly six months and then feed it into an LLM. You can make a
bot that would just be just spit this crap out like all day long.
So
Adam Curry: just so we don't become the new media show. I
will say that I think what Todd would Todd has done with
blueberry pie. I think that's what he's calling it. I think
for process Is management, which Barry at pod home already had
set up? I think that's, that's very useful. Agreed. Because,
you know, I, I make mistakes in my process. And if if I could
have an algorithm because it's in your script, it's not AI
really per se, but I make mistakes, there's a lot of
stuff, you know, I shouldn't be cracking the mic and talking to
you without the live pod ping going out, you know, there's all
kinds of stuff like that. Process Management, I think so
called have to say it's so called AI will be very useful.
It's not going to get you more listeners with your with your
generated art and your show notes and all that stuff. I
don't know. I don't see that as, as anything important at all,
but it makes the
Dave Jones: bus. It's like the bus Bronco stuff. I mean, like
this, it just makes things makes things easier. It makes me you
know, it gives you a starting point. Yeah. Yeah. To go with
and so that's good. Those are all good things.
Adam Curry: And I like having 15 to 20 Humans competing to create
art for the for our episode. If you go look at nogen art
generator.com You'll see it for every episode, there's 20
different pieces. People are competing. That's humans. That's
that's souls, souls with humor and insight and ideas. Yeah, a
lot of them are using generated stuff, which usually gets
skipped because just has that look. It has, it has got a slick
look. But it's not funny. There's no insight, there's, you
know, having a picture on the wall on the background is skewed
just a little bit could be the funniest thing. But there's just
no so anyway, soulless crap.
Dave Jones: So, so and and soulless, and wrong. Yes. Like,
just like, the DOJ isn't wrong. I don't know if you heard about
the SLS listen to the coda radio, and they started talking
about the Apple antitrust case.
Adam Curry: John told me a little bit about it yesterday on
the show, it sounded like his breakdown was their phones suck,
and they're responsible for all the problems. And that's why
we're suing them. Does that kind of summarize
Dave Jones: this? I would sum it up like this. We don't like you.
And so we're going to make ourselves feel better by suing
you.
Adam Curry: And why don't they like apple? What would an apple
do wrong?
Dave Jones: I don't know. They were there. And I say I say I
don't know. And I'm being genuine. Because all the things
that they all the examples that you're getting? Don't they're
either untrue. Or they don't make any sense. Like they don't
or they don't follow the narrative that they've laid out.
So coder radio has the latest episode is is is worth a listen.
They had a great overview of this. And excuse me, his pollen,
this pollen? Yeah, yeah. But they had a great overview of
this. And the guy that that was ended up being sort of the
spokesperson for this on the news shows was this guy, Tim Wu.
I know, you know,
Adam Curry: that. What do I know, Tim Wu from? Yeah, I know
him. He's at Columbia
Dave Jones: University. But he used to be in the Biden
administration work. He He's what they're everybody's
referring to him as the architect of their antitrust
policy. He's like the guy. He's like the brain behind the
operation of this.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's rings a bell? Yes. So he I probably
heard about him on pivot where Kara Swisher thinks he's great.
Probably.
Dave Jones: This this, this would follow. That I thought
Chris and Mike occurred radio had a really good take on this
from they called this. Chris called this an emotional
document.
Adam Curry: Oh, well, that says it right there, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Dave Jones: The DOJ into you know, document that lists all
the reasons why they're why they're bringing an antitrust
lawsuit against Apple. They call it an emotional document this
this is I believe this fully based on the way that this guy's
talking. This is to give the end to give the end away. First. I
think this is basically a I think I think this this
administration specifically, but broader just a general thing
that is happening in court and culture in academia and politics
is to try to get a try to do a gotcha on people. To you get
what you want. If you're an up and comers you want to you want
to, you want to scalp to hang on your wall. Yeah, it doesn't
matter if it doesn't matter if, if it ever even worked, like if
it actually functions or works in the way that you think it
will or if any, anything is produced by it, you just need
that you just want to get a scalp. And this what better way
to do it, then through some sort of squishy? We don't you know,
you're, you're not being fair type of type of language, to
take advantage of the squishy nature of current society and
where we're at the first I got, I guess we'll click Ah,
Adam Curry: there it is. And we knew you were leading up to
something. Yeah, I got some clips. So this,
Dave Jones: he lays it out. And you can hear what he says, like
the trajectory of this. From the very beginning, when he says the
reason they're doing it, the reason that they're sued is an
interview on CNBC with Tim Wu, the reason why they're suing
Apple is not because they have hard evidence of all these
wrongs, is because it's part of an American tradition,
Unknown: we idea I think, is to hold America's Best Companies
feet to the fire, that if they're forced to compete, they
get better, that dominant companies become stagnant. It's
an American tradition. We did it with IBM, we did it with AT and
T, we did it with Microsoft. And I'm saying that, you know, suing
Microsoft ended up being the best thing for the tech
industry. The theory is that no one disputes that Apple is a
great phone, a great, great company. But you know, the law
is not a popularity contest. And the idea is that they are got
where they are, they've now built a moat, to prevent anyone
else from getting in there preventing people from switching
new applications. So the idea is in favor of more innovation. And
Adam Curry: I will say that when it comes to breaking companies
up, it's always to the benefit of the incumbent company, and to
the benefit of the shareholders, because that's what they're
going after they want to break it up. They want to break
something up. I mean, look, did it hurt Microsoft in the long
run when they going after them for the browser? No,
Dave Jones: no, no. So his, you know, the examples he gives are?
He's like he said, in a citizen American tradition, basically
Apple Europe. It's
Adam Curry: your turn. Yeah, cuz we got to do some let's, we got
to do our job over here. He
Dave Jones: and He and the examples he gave were IBM, AT
and T, Microsoft, IBM, IBM. We and the reason I'm talking about
this is we you know, we talked about this a week or two ago,
and they're talking about how house, how silly all of this
antitrust nonsense is at least the American version of it. And
IBM, IBM, they started the ante the DOJ started the antitrust
case against IBM in 1969. Yeah. And it was eventually thrown out
in 1982. Nothing happened. Right? That. So that's one
example of we we did that. He said, we did this to IBM, you
have at&t, and they were broken apart in 1982. If you compare
long distance rates after the breakup, they fit the rates fell
less in the US than they did in every other part of the world
where they didn't break up their telephone monopolies.
Adam Curry: And we still have those kinds of
incompatibilities. Yeah,
Dave Jones: the Microsoft case was eventually settled out of
court, because the judge said, this is this is you, you failed,
you failed, you failed to prove your case. They settled out of
court for basically some API concessions, and a committee of
five people that would review the source code for five years.
Like these cases that he gives are worse. They're all failures,
sometimes explicit failures, others, like an 18. T is this is
failures to produce the results. They said they would they would
do. But like the this is, they say, we're going to do this
because obviously we did it to these other companies, but you
failed. The other companies. But and then and that's, that's just
like sort of the framework. The the history of these things that
he then goes on to tell they're all They're all just wrong. Like
the document that they talked about the the DOJ document that
lays all this out, says that that I did the Microsoft thing
was Ness, the Microsoft case was necessary to force Microsoft to
open up Windows to iTunes. Mm
Adam Curry: hmm. That's not that's not that's not how that
works. No,
Dave Jones: Apple. Apple didn't want to put it on On Windows,
Microsoft was begging them to put it on there because that
gives them access to an entire humongous market. And
Adam Curry: Microsoft even invested $500 million into
creating office for the Mac via Steve Jobs. I remember Steve
Jobs was announcing it. And Bill Gates came on behind him on a
giant screen looking like his, his overlord from 1984.
Unknown: Steve That's right.
Dave Jones: And that's that's because that's the famous quote,
where jobs that we have to get rid of this idea that in order
for us to win, Microsoft has to lose. Yeah. And so he goes on
to, you know, he tells this bogus in clip two, he tells this
bogus Microsoft history, explain
Unknown: how you think going after Microsoft was the best
thing that could have happened for the tech industry? Because
Bill Gates has said, it's the reason that they fell behind why
the company lost out on on on going and having its own phone.
Yeah,
I mean, you brought up Europe and Japan, other countries just
sort of leave their monopolist there. And after a while, a very
vibrant competitive company becomes stagnant. They become
less interested in innovation more interested in trying to
keep out the competitors. But back in the 90s, Microsoft had
basically sewed up the operating system market, they were trying
to take on the internet and control it. And they probably
would have prevented the rise of companies like Google, like
Amazon, like Facebook, they had their own search engine. Why
would they let Google win on their explore? It
Adam Curry: was a better search engine.
Dave Jones: He said they had their own search engine. Why
would they let Google when on their Explorer
Adam Curry: is a guy who has no idea how the internet works? Did
Microsoft
Dave Jones: have a search engine in 1995 or four? No,
Adam Curry: no, they bought something though, didn't they?
Didn't they buy Infoseek or they bought something?
Dave Jones: Well, that eventually became Bing. But I
don't That was way after. That was way after the antitrust
lawsuit stuff. Yeah. He's got his timeline completely wrong.
He said they probably if we didn't let him go, and we hadn't
done this, which again, the case was settled. For now for almost
no
Adam Curry: pen and say why are you so mad about all this?
Dave Jones: Because it's so stupid. Like, like, it? It? I
guess I guess I'm worked up about it because it makes me
your spine out, man. It may. It makes me irritated when I'm just
lied to go. Okay. Old face like, yeah, these are these are not
like what does that thing? What did they is there's some kind of
like, thing where it's where like you you hear somebody talk
about something you know about and they it's
Adam Curry: the man Gelman amnesia effect. Okay, yeah.
Which is and I'll give the definition. When you read
something in the newspaper, you're an expert on and you see
that it's wrong, then you usually don't, but you should
realize that the rest of the articles are also probably
wrong.
Dave Jones: Yes, that's, that's what has me spun up about this.
Because when I hear it, there's lots of things that Apple does
that are that are just, yeah, like,
Adam Curry: like dropping podcasts from their index. Yeah.
But
Dave Jones: that's not what we're told that that's not the
issue at hand. The issue here is a bunch of stuff that's made up.
Yeah. And they're just flat out lying to lie. Here's another
exact clip three. Another example about we talked about
the about air airplane manufacturing in the in the
automobile industry.
Unknown: I think in even inside this country, we have former
tech industries that get very stagnant. Let's take aerospace.
We allowed the airline industry to merge into basically a
monopoly centered on Boeing, you know, competing with Airbus.
How's that going? We you know, when you think about the current
history, you know, we've said okay, this big three can have
it. I think we've done a lot better when we
40 have been completely disrupted by Tesla. Yeah,
companies that come in and
buy and buy inputs. No, I hear that. But what I'm saying is if
we had if we had taken antitrust action in the 60s, we would have
had a more competitive car industry. Bull crap.
Adam Curry: Okay, so I see what he's doing. This is bullcrap. In
fact, it's better if you have the, what we're doing right
here. Case in point. There was no innovation because this is
actually a very good example. There was no innovation in
podcasting. Partially because Apple was the default on ramp
they had become that they were the, you know, the 400 pound
gorilla in the room. But partially because no one put put
their big boy pants on and said, You know what, we're just going
to compete with Apple. Because Oh, they're too big turns out,
doesn't make any difference. We're thriving without them.
We're thriving just fine. In fact, there's never been this
many independent podcast apps as far as I know. Now, are our Do
we have the same market share? No. But also does it matter? No.
Dave Jones: Yeah, now you're splitting up. So yeah, man I
love it. I love the hand waving of, you know, blah, blah, blah,
some about Boeing. Okay,
Adam Curry: what's wrong with Boeing? Boeing has a lot of
problems right now. And that's, that's not because of lack of
innovation. That's because what's her face? Nikki Haley
moves him to South Carolina and let him do whatever they wanted
to do. And the whole corporate culture changed overnight.
That's what happened there. may even
Dave Jones: I love the love the how how he undercuts his own
argument, she says seems like totally disrupting. Yeah. And
imports. Yeah.
Adam Curry: All right, buddy. Okay, so that was a fail on his
part a big fail. Yeah, yeah. And
Dave Jones: but the real clincher, though, is this is
clicked for him. This isn't she asked him. She asks him of what
I think is a really good sort of question. If you're thinking
about, like, what's the endgame here. And I think she rightly
spots that there probably, is, there's nothing Apple can do.
And this is what I started, you know, this office saying that
these are a bunch of people who they just want to scalp and
they're going to prey on other people's emotions, to get some
sort to get something in the books where they can have their
name attached to it in the future. So and so, you know, was
the person who brought an antitrust action against Apple?
That's that's all is it's about. It's about extraction, not
remediation. When you
Unknown: describe it like that, it makes me think that there is
not much that Apple can do to settle to make these claims go
away. They agreed and made some concessions to the European
Union, would it be as easy as saying, Okay, we'll make those
changes here too, or is the entire goal of the Department of
Justice to bring them to their knees and not allow them to be a
strong competitor in their own right now,
the goal of the Department of Justice is to protect
competition. And their theory is that Apple has monopolized this
market, and has prevented competitors from from
challenging Apple through means that are illegal. So if Apple
agrees to do all that,
like describe what what would actually take I mean, are you
talking about saying the App Store is no longer going to be
protected? be its own ecosphere.
But I think that just for it's going to want to know the
difference between what is actually privacy protection? And
what is something they say that can protect their monopoly?
Look, I don't this Justice Department is not into easy
settlements. So they can't wave a magic wand and say they want
to understand that they need to be you know, that blocking on
contempt, petition illegally won't be tolerated anymore.
I think that's the key. And what you're saying is that this
Justice Department doesn't want to settle easily that there is
much bigger, there are much bigger issues like for Apple,
it's not going to be able to settle and go away unless it
basically hands over the keys to the kingdom. I
mean, Jonathan Cantor was saying the other day, the biggest
change between us and the old days is we don't settle for like
five cents on the dollar and call it victory. Yeah,
Adam Curry: you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say this. There's
something else going on here. You for this guy. Yeah, probably
a scalp. But this is much bigger. This is Bure you're
allowing people to have protected encrypted
conversations, you're not opening that up. And I'm pretty
sure that they they make it very difficult before they actually
do something. If you store something on iCloud, you could
be screwed. But if you're just doing stuff, and this may be
related to the new, the ICS standard, you know, with with
iMessage. And more importantly, Tim Cook probably hasn't donated
enough money to Biden's reelection campaign. That's
that's ultimately, that's what these guys are all about. That's
this is a worker bee. He's been sent out to pester Apple,
because Apple is not dancing to somebody's pipe somewhere. And
it's usually in an election year that this kind of stuff happens.
That's the same thing. Right now we have in the Supreme Court. We
have Missouri V. Biden. And the question is, did the
administration violate the First Amendment which for those of you
not living here? The Bill of Rights is not rights that you
get from the government for for your free speech? It is the
opposite? It is a you have free speech, and the government
cannot interfere in it. It's a it's a restriction against the
government. And what the both the under the Trump but more the
Biden administration, they would go to the show social networks
and say you have to take down this post. And this is where it
this is the crux of the issue. Was it coercion and just
coercion violate the First Amendment when they say if you
don't, well, you know, there's that section 230 We could take
that away from you. So it's all about power of the federal
government which of course, is exactly what we don't want in
America. So this guy should be ashamed of himself. And there's
a special that he has a, a front row seat in hell, that's where
Dave Jones: every every every administration has. It has a
flavor to it has a character with the Trump administration,
that flavor was complete chaos and back backbiting and people,
you know, it
Adam Curry: was the same people. It's the same people, it was the
same thing. Only Trump was different. Everyone else was the
same. No,
Dave Jones: I mean, you had people like, you know, people
backstabbing him and leaking things. He didn't know what he
was doing. He can't you know, he couldn't hire anybody worth a
crap to save his life. There was there was all the it was this,
there was a there was a culture of disarray in their
administration. This the culture in this administration is of
coercion. It's academia, the people that, that the people
that are in positions of power, within this administration, are
all very come from the academic world. Especially in the FTC.
You know, the DOJ, like people like this guy from Columbia
University, spent some time in the administration, he's not in
there anymore. But these are the things in this administration
and getting crafted by people who are Egghead policy wonk. And
those, those people can be very dangerous because they don't
live in the real world. They live in the academic bubble. And
when they and when you let them out and start, they start
creating policy. That's where you get some pretty nasty
results. That's that's a technocracy and this like,
you're me. You're right. I think you're right. This is like the
CNBC had an had a article from January of last year, talking
about how Apple still trails everybody else in lobbying
money. No, no. Yeah. We know when we already went over a
while back a few months ago, how Microsoft started off the
beginning when they first got sued by the DOJ. They had like
one lobbyist in a, you know, in an office above, like a Denny's.
And then by the end, you know, by the end of the end of the
thing that we're like one of the biggest lobbyists in Washington,
you're right, this is a pay up thing, for sure. But I also
think that there's a, there's an academic Egghead thing that goes
on in this particular administration, where people
like this, who don't, who really are out don't know, they have no
practical experience in the in the, in the real economy.
They're making decisions that are potentially very dangerous.
Adam Curry: All right, now I'm going to switch you back to
podcasting. Dave, is it out of your system? Yeah. I want to
congratulate Andrew Gromit. He nailed it. He got the T O V
records working.
Dave Jones: That was that was a switch holy cow. This. Congrats,
Andrew. Very
Adam Curry: happy, because he's he's building this framework for
web apps kind of ties into this because you never know. You
know, app stores are not something that we can depend on.
Right long term, and he's building this this what does he
call it? It's the whatever app I think and it's he's he's really
building this whole framework, that everything. I mean, he has
some cores issues, of course, but that everything will just
work. And then you can spin up a web app and have a framework to
create whatever you want. It's I think it's really important
work. And I'm I'm really pleased he's doing it.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's he he's, this is part of his PWA
library. Yes.
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. And he
Dave Jones: submitted some, some correction language to heli pad.
No to the blip.
Adam Curry: Blip itself, okay. Yeah. Cuz he was having troubles
trying to figure out the remote item. But now he's got remote
items working. He's got reply working. I mean, the app I mean,
if you if you look at the the app, it's like, whoa, you know,
it's got a lot of buttons and boxes and stuff. Because just
the framework by man, you can spin up a progressive web app,
something Hello, roofie. We know you're back. roofie. I'm just
saying yes. All that you might want to do. You might want to
take a look at this thing. Andrew is building man. And he's
got some interesting going on there. I like it a lot. I like
it a lot. And
Dave Jones: I've got I've got problems to fix. I've got bugs
to fix on the index. This this episode. Response this episode's
by feed ID response on the
Adam Curry: API. Yeah, it's not, it's not spitting back all the
all the episodes, it's just spitting back and fix them. I
like 64 Instead of all of them. No,
Dave Jones: it's different. Something different result set
every. So you give it. here's the, here's what it looks like
in practice, you asked for a maximum. So pretty much every
API call in the index has a parameter called Max. So it's
just basically just a limit, you know, I don't want any more than
this number of result. If you give it a max of, let's say, 50,
it may give you 22. Oh, if you give it a max of 100, you're
running this on a 70. Or you're running this
Adam Curry: on an LLM. This, is that why they're happening?
Dave Jones: Here like that's the incorrect number of results. And
you tell it that and it says, Oh, yes, I apologize. 94.
Exactly. But yeah, but I asked for 100. Oh, my apologies.
Here's 86. Exactly. The so you get these weird results in I
finally figured it out. It's, it's because Okay, let's go.
Let's talk about databases for a second.
Adam Curry: Yeah. Whoo. Does that does that qualify as hot
math talk or anything like that? No, I guess not. That's a
Dave Jones: stretch. Okay. Because this year, we got
databases
Adam Curry: religion, brother has religion.
Dave Jones: We got no jingles.
Adam Curry: Hello, damn, Jennifer, we need hot database
talk.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, this is just gonna suck for the next two
minutes. So when you do a SQL query, you can't like, what
we're asking for is episodes in a podcast, that's that query is
super simple, super fast. Select these fields, where the, where
they feed ID is x in the items table. Done simple. There's, but
then we had everything is separated into different tables.
So the chapters are in their own table. The sound bites are in
their own table. The transcripts are in their own table, bla,
bla, bla, bla bla. So all the things that go along the value,
time splits are in a different table. Each little bit of data
in the 2.0 namespace is housed in a different table. And those
all tie back to the items table with a item ID record, or field.
So now you have to say, give me all select all the all the
episodes, where the feed ID is, is this. And then you have to
start doing joint what they call joins. So then you say join,
join transcripts on Item ID equals this join chapters on
Item ID equals this and you I mean, there's like, I don't
know, eight or nine of these joins. So you're basically
pulling you're now saying pulley and also, in addition to all the
all the fields, in the items table a pull in all these fields
in these other tables. Right? What that is also fine, and
usually doesn't slow things down too bad. But the issue here is
that then you get into a minute you get into a many to one
problem. So you have exactly. Let's say one of the episodes is
episode 171 of podcasting 2.0. Episode 171 may have multiple
value time splits, yes. So when I say Bring, bring back, this
result is when I say also join in the results from the value
time splits table. Now what I'm going to get in my result set is
I'm going to get, let's say if there was five value TimeSlips
I'm gonna get five duplicate records. Back where the only
difference is just the value time split data. Because what
you're getting what you're asking for is a list of all the
episodes. Yeah, but you're then joining another table, which may
have multiple values for the same episode. I'll stop doing
that. So. So what's the result set going to look like? There's
a guy list. Yeah. So so then what you basically have to do a
post processing. So you get your whole flat list back and you
post process and you run through and say, Okay, you, you just
attach your system, essentially you build the structure. And you
build the structure that you're going to use that you're going
to use, and then hand it off to be encoded into JSON To this,
this slows things down this this process
Adam Curry: enormously. I'll bet
Dave Jones: a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So when you so then so
what the bottom line is, it's a con, it's sort of a become a big
complicated query, and I'm going to have to figure out how to
refactor it in order to get the speed that we need. And, and the
accuracy. Wow. Because this this is, this is an example of one of
those things that grew up over time.
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. What I mean is like, this is why it's
religion. You you've you've put yourself in a box, not because
you're, you're dumb, but because that's what it was in the
beginning. Now we have all these others or other requirements
people want, and decisions you made two years ago are now
making more complicated. Is that a fair assessment?
Dave Jones: Yes, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. So now
now you just have to figure out how to get your stuff out the
box.
Adam Curry: Um, I have a couple of things on my agenda here
because this stuff that we didn't get to last week. And
this is something I was so disappointed because I don't
know if you've if you've caught up with your partners weekly
reviews, the one from last week. But Sam interviewed one of the
co authors of the activity pub.
Dave Jones: I haven't listened to speculates, I suppose
Adam Curry: is a spec. Activity is spanned expand and activity
streams. And I'm so sick and tired of hanging Sam Sethi now
make no Oh, no herb in my life live boo, boo, boo. Okay, so I
want to delve into activity streams for a second. Because I
understand what he's saying. He's, let me start. Let me skip
back. He has a huge problem with using the lightning split, in
order to activate some other thing throughout. And he somehow
he believes that, that I think, or if there's a general
consensus, that booster grams or cross app comments, they're not,
it's never been the intention. I liked the idea of being able to
put those different places I like, I really liked the reflex
service from Spurlock, that automatically puts it into the
chapters, everyone seems to have gotten used to that. There's no
more pushback, everyone's fix their app. So because it's a TOC
equals false. So it doesn't ruin people's experience of using
chapters to jump to different spots. So that's worked out. I
understand, though, that he is looking at activity streams,
which is a double three standard, which means it'll suck
to change anything. As a way to provide feedback from an
individual user, back to publisher, whomever. And and
it's basically just a JSON, I've looked at it and um, I can I can
read some stuff is basically just a JSON format, and then has
all these different verbs. So if you hit play, or if you put a
comment, I mean, it's what Facebook, I guess use early on
and MIB everybody probably use it for social networking. The
Dave Jones: the verb might be follow exactly the lead or
whatever. Yeah, like
Adam Curry: all this different stuff. Yeah, yeah. And so. But
what he didn't ask or what he asked, and the guy didn't
answer, and Sam didn't either didn't catch it, or whatever it
didn't, it was so disappointing, because this is the one thing I
wanted to know, where do you store that data? And what Sam is
saying, on the mastodon on the podcast, index dot social is,
well, the index should just store that. I'm like, No, I want
nothing to do with user data like that. I mean, you might
have a different opinion. But to me, it's like, no, that's the
worst thing you can you can well, it's just a feed of that.
Yeah, sure. We're just storing data. But now you're in privacy,
right to forget the European Union. And you're talking about
people's individual, what if, you know, some rogue actor comes
in and steals that data, it's still it's very valuable,
because that's how Facebook makes billions of dollars.
That's how Twitter makes billions? Well, whatever they're
making, is by selling that data. That is exactly the valuable
data that we want to stay away from. However, this is what I
wanted to know. Because I wish there was the perfect guy to ask
and it didn't happen. Is there a way to store activity streams
data in activity pub in your actor or whatever it's called?
Is that not the most logical thing here? Or am I mistaken? Do
you know who
Dave Jones: what is the actor in this scenario? You would have to
ask him Is it the user
Adam Curry: I would say the user You have to have an account.
Dave Jones: Right? Yes. I mean, well, you're not. You're going
to be having any. Yeah. I mean, the that's the way, let me ask
the way most of activity pub, which uses activity streams as
its, you know, action language. That's the way that most that's
the way that works typically, as you have,
Adam Curry: why do I keep hearing that we have to store it
in the index? It makes no sense. Well,
Dave Jones: I mean, if I guess maybe they're talking about
restoring the, the thing that we would receive, if we're liking a
podcast or following a podcast, will mean we store, we don't
store anything on the bridge. I mean, the bridge will be a good
example of this. I mean, we don't store anything there other
than follows. Because you have to, because we have to know
where to send the updates to data when somebody is somebody
likes a cat, which would be another verb, if somebody likes
the podcast. We're not storing that. Right.
Adam Curry: But I think, okay, maybe maybe I'm misunderstanding
here. Because he's talking about aggregating that data for use
amongst other apps. So if you put it, let's just keep it
simple. That cross app comments that he sees that that should be
activity streams, which to me is like we already have this
working with activity pub, the me we have that basic stuff
working. So if you put a comment in on a podcast episode, it
shows up underneath that, that base base URL. Now, if you want
to like it, if you want to, you know, provide some other active
some other data shouldn't also just show up there then to be
can that then be accessed by other apps? Or is that the
problem? I don't know if I'm making myself clear.
Dave Jones: I don't I don't think that you. I don't think
that you're well, okay. Let me let me try to think of this in
terms of the activity pub world. The pub, the other entities only
know about what you've done with them. I mean, there's no What's
your do, your actor only stores its information on its system,
right. So my imaginary my Mastodon account knows all of
the things I've done and knows what I've liked, what I've
applied to follow knows what
Adam Curry: you did last summer.
Dave Jones: It knows, it knows all these things. Because it's
me essentially. But, but a podcast I follow only knows
things that I've, that I've posted to it, like a like, or a
follow or something like that, or, you know, or the other
option. The other the other potential there is if there's if
there's a shared inbox idea. And, and I'm sending my likes or
my other actions, to this other thing that knows about lots of
lots of podcasts or actors could possibly know all those things
and store those, like Daniel, in the chat said something about
pod engagement, his his product, might be able to speak this. And
then, you know, if I, if I like seven podcasts, then perhaps pug
and I make that, quote unquote, public into us activity pub
speak, then, because there's because with every activity,
with every action, there's also a sort of a way to denote what
this is for, is it for just this actor? This receiving actor is
it for everyone. Is it like a public post? Or a public like?
Or is it private? That's how you get things like direct
messaging, and that kind of stuff over activity pub, is by
limit limiting that visibility section. So, I mean, I could see
how I could see how if in the right context, there might be a
platform or a service that could sort of collect things like that
into, like a feed. If that's the terminology we want to use, but
I mean, like, I don't think that it would have to be something
purpose built for it.
Adam Curry: Right? Well, Sam Southie just boosted 10,000
SATs. He says, Adam, I don't have answers. I'm asking the
questions. Okay. Activity Stream is the data activity above is
the protocol for the apps true fans will be publishing user
activity stream verbs to their activity pub client, with
permission. Okay,
Dave Jones: so But what this what we're okay So that makes
sense. Right.
Adam Curry: But we were switching now from doing stuff
with podcasters. With the with the publishing podcasters to the
users. I have I have some problems with that.
Dave Jones: I don't know what you mean, like, what would the
problem? No, no who say that against they say what you said
again? Okay. Because I didn't and I'm not sure I fully
followed what you meant.
Adam Curry: But let me read Sam's thing again. Okay. True
fans will be publishing user activity stream verbs to their
activity pub client with permission.
Dave Jones: So, okay,
Adam Curry: so Okay, so that could mean how long you've
listened, what podcast you're listening to right now? Did you
press play? Did you skip an ad? All of this stuff. I just don't
know. If we can ever that's not been the culture of podcast
apps. In fact, quite the inverse has been true.
Dave Jones: Sam, Sam is going to have already reached out and
he's going to be on the show in April. Okay. Because then we
cannot do this. Yeah, we just have to figure out a date. But
yeah, he's gonna be on the show soon. But the the way that the
way that I understand this is this is that true fans has made
the decision to as well to
Adam Curry: publish their users data with the user's permission.
Yeah.
Dave Jones: And so, you know, he's these these verbs that,
that he's talking about? I mean, we know a couple of them off the
bat. I mean, it's gonna be follow and like, and, I mean,
there's, there's some others, but I mean, there's like a
couple of like, default ones that we all we all understand.
But then that there is a facility to create custom verbs,
Adam Curry: right? It's open. It's like a namespace you can
add to Yeah, yeah,
Dave Jones: you can extend it. And so those custom verbs may be
a can be other things like a review, you know, right.
Adam Curry: Right. Right. Right, right. Or something
Dave Jones: else. So like, if I can see how, if they want to be
a, a sort of activity, pub first activity stream first platform,
that they could, I could somehow hook that back into my standard
activity, pub identity. And then and then like, the things I do
on true fans, them, they also are reflected like, like I did
them in my activity pub account. Like there, you know, it's not
like a net is trying to not have two different presences.
Adam Curry: We're trying to tie this right. So there's our kind
of requires every user to have an activity pub presence.
Dave Jones: I think, if I understand what his platform
does, you, you are an activity pub actor already. But then, but
it's just on his system, unless you also tie it out to this
other to another identity.
Adam Curry: And, and I'm for that i The more I look at
activity pub, the more I like it, really like it. I mean, you
could hook up your washing machine to activity pub.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you know. Yeah. And then it could use 12
gigs of data a day.
Adam Curry: Well, there's that. But as a as an as a bridge
between all kinds of different applications. I think it's
wonderful. I'm just trying to understand, is it something how
do we use it within the context of podcasting 2.0 Is it I mean,
we haven't been able to get really a single app developer to
really, really integrate cross app comments. You in this
podcast publishes our base URL everything every single time.
The closest I've seen it is the curio Kassar basically pops open
a web page. And I think well, the the 2.0 website does a nice
job. But no one has really gone the full circle where you can
just click Reply. Now then you go through all these hoops and
you back out to a mastodon website. And it's not a it's not
a seamless process. I think it's because education, honestly, I
think it just, you know, developers are busy. You got
other stuff to deal with. And then, you know, really diving
into this as a deep one.
Dave Jones: You know, like, Daniel was like, No, and and he
was anti activity for a long time. But now he's a believer, I
think. I think it just takes it takes doing it. It takes writing
some software, some activity pub based software first to see that
it's really not as intimidating and bad as is, as it appears on
the outside activity. Pub. Has a it's got an image problem for
developers. Yeah, because it looks like a big bunch of goo
and it looks very weird and hard to understand. And math.
Mastodon made it worse, because there's a lot of undocumented
stuff in the mastodon world. And if you're gonna build activity
pub, you have to play nice with Mastodon because it's 100 pound
gorilla. So there's a lot of stuff like that that makes it,
you know, and I'm speaking from experience now, because I just
wrote this right.
Adam Curry: And it was not easy. It was hard. There was some
weird stuff, a lot of
Dave Jones: the lots of debugging, lots of staring at
the screen debugging, because there's no documentation to tell
you what
Adam Curry: is right. Maybe if I take it up one level, there is
my belief after many years of talking about this with you, and
with the group, that activity pub can connect the 2.0 apps, ie
podcasting, in a way, that will be very exciting. If we can
figure it out, you know, cross app comments, forget the way,
just the idea of something that you comment here, it shows up in
another app over there. And we went through early in the early
days, you know, people were just like, and I remember Martin from
pod for me, like now I'll just publish mine with POD friends.
And we'll go back and forth. And we'll, we'll just share that
data. So that obviously is not the right way. Clearly, the
fediverse activity Pub is clearly the way to connect all
of these different data points. And I think that we would be as
a group of applications and services, we would be formed
formidable, formidable, even if we found out a way to connect
our apps, maybe it's not comments, maybe it's something
very simple in the beginning. With the caveat that I didn't do
not think podcasts index should be some centralized repository
of this information. No, no, no. So but and in my mind, isn't
that exactly the point? If does that mean maybe that every app
has to spin up an activity pub instance, for its users, which,
of course brings in a whole other host of things, because I
can already see Franco in there and Italy going Mamamia, you
know, he talks like that, actually, me to
Dave Jones: do is literally every time we talk, because
Adam Curry: I'm sold on the idea. I love the interview with
that guy, and it was cool as he was like, I can't believe that
you guys are putting podcasts into activitypub What a great
idea. So you know, for one of the co authors of this to see
the power that we're bringing to the NCAA, right, it has a is a
huge marketing problem with activity pub, because everyone
immediately thinks, depending on where you're standing in life,
oh, lib tardes or Nazis. I mean, that's, that's all we can think
of when it comes to activity pub and blocking. Blocking.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but that denialist Yeah, so there's gotta
Adam Curry: be a way that we can use that to our advantage, not
something you and I can solve here, but it just feels like
there's something so big there that would leave every other big
app, which let's face it, there's only a couple really
just standing there with the proverbial thing in their hands,
because they're not a part of the group. And this would just
it would be something very cool. But it's but we have to think
beyond the the single features of comments or you know, it has
to be how do we connect these apps together? You know, how how
can I have my How can I tell my washing machine that I'm
following this podcast? You know that that kind of stuff? That's
how big it is? I believe in the realm of what we can do. Does
that make sense? That guy has a great
Dave Jones: mustache by the way he does
Adam Curry: it has its own activity pub actor accounts
Dave Jones: should if it doesn't, it should. Is it the
left is an outbox the right isn't it? My
Adam Curry: My hair has its own Mastodon account it's got an
acting as an activity pub actor Adam Curry's hair. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Yeah, not. What did you mean by us? Each podcast app
or platform would have to spin up its own activity pub
instance.
Adam Curry: Oh, my simple thinking. The the beauty of I'll
just use the mastodon example of activity pub. So no agenda
social blew up. It became no authority, social and I didn't
want an account there. I could have had an account there,
obviously, but I already had my SIOP, shop.com and I've
integrated perfectly with the conversations that I want to be
a part of, because of course, there's no blocking between us.
And, and so I'm still a part of the group even though I have my
own my own instance. If that's just me on that instance, but I
could add a couple of other people, to require your users to
all find an activity pub account, whether it's, you know,
what, regardless of the front end, that I think is a heavy
lift, as an app to say, Hey, you're signed in. And under the
hood, you also now are an actor in the fediverse. The I think
that's what I'm saying. And therefore, now we can integrate
all these things, all of any verbs, you choose to publish
whatever it is, and you can have all kinds of other things flow
into it, and especially like, what you said, reviews, ratings,
etc, all that stuff can flow into it. But I think it requires
the app developers to take a huge plunge and a huge ban. And
I think there's risk there too. I mean, if you have 50,000 users
of your app, you have 50,000 bits of information, there's all
kinds of stuff we got to think about. That may or may or may
not, maybe we do it in the same way as Hey, bring your own your
own account, you know, use your own activity, pub credentials,
or use use the one that I have built in.
Dave Jones: Yes, that, yeah, we took for the activity pub
podcast index bridge, I took that, you know, second approach,
which is it, and I think it's the right way to go if you can
swing it, which is you have every per every user is also
just, you can just assume you can just treat them like an
actor in your platform. And then they get they get a
Adam Curry: they get an inbox and outbox. I want to show an
episode would be an actor with an inbox and outbox and to that
actor, that episode actor you can send a review verb, a listen
to verb, a comment, verb etc. Is that how that works? Okay.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so you could do it that way? Yeah, we don't
go. We don't go down to the episode Level A probably should
have I didn't think about it. We just go to the podcast show
level and treat that as the actor. It would be it would have
been cool to go to the episode level. But that's, that's yeah,
that's for sure. Another way to do it like that. And that. And
that's the better. I don't like using judgmental words like
that. But that to me, that's a good way to do for developers to
think about this stuff. Because you look at your own platform,
you look at your own app, and you say, Okay, what, what am I
doing here? Where's the where are my actors at? Where am
actors at? Because they were, you know, which one of you like,
what, what is what is an actor in my system? Is that the user?
Is? Is it the show? Is it the episode? I mean, is it the
comment, I mean, like, because it's gonna be probably this, we
answered different ways for every developer. And then you
can make those decisions and the adding sort of activity, pub
Ising, a thing is really not that hard. You're just
publishing a couple of endpoints, you're, you're
publishing three endpoints. And that's it. I mean, you're kind
of you're kind of done. And those endpoints don't actually
have to do anything. They don't have to, don't have to exist.
They don't have to exist as static entities. Like they can
just be dynamic, and only respond as, as necessary. So
like, that's the way the activity, that's where the
podcast index bridge is. There's no, there's no static stuff
living anywhere. It just rode the actor is just one endpoint
with a with a parameter, which is just index ID, right. And so
we just have one, one piece of code. I mean, the bridge is very
simple. There's not a lot of code there. I don't know, a
couple 1000 lines of code. I mean, in the grand scheme of
things, and a lot of that is just, you know, infrastructure
code that's built in, you know, for the web app itself. So
there's really not a lot there. I think this is a thing that is
important going forward. I like Well,
Adam Curry: I've been just just imagine because, okay, so I'm
just thinking outside the box, you know, like and subscribe,
you know, leave it, leave a review, leave, you know, hit
five, give me five stars, all this stuff that people always
saying the discovery mechanism would be would be hyper, if we
were able to pull this off. Because if I leave a review, is
plus and minus of course, if I leave a review on on an episode
and that flows over and there's, you know, 50 reviews on one
episode and you see that in your podcast app. Oh, wait a minute.
I'm sorting by Reviews. Oh, look at this. I mean, I have no idea
how that works in practice, if that's easy, what I'm saying,
but it just, I can just feel it in my bones, maybe,
Dave Jones: well wait wave lake or what's Steven bass, hosting
thing, music hosting, music side project, music side project, you
know, those kinds of platforms that the, the artist could be an
actor. And so that you're being hosted on that on that platform.
And that artist is sort of that's the official account or
the official actor for that artist. That's where they're
hosting their music. And then, you know, that's so like, are
these other other platforms see that in internet and can
interact with that, and it makes sense.
Adam Curry: And this kind of makes me realize that me oh,
this noster RSS thing. It's not about Nasir nostra is competing
with activity pub. That's the competition. That's the real
competition. And I think we're honestly, I have no personal
vendetta against nostre I think I think we're, we're hung up and
spinning a lot of cycles on trying to do nostre stuff. When
activity Pub is sitting there. It's been there for what 13
years. It's sitting there going use me cuse me. I'm ready. You
know, it's just it just seems like such an obvious thing to
do. And boy, look at the look at the people who are here who
could do it. 10 Yo one owns it. I love this. I love this so
much, you know, no one owns it and you still have all your
models. In fact, you have quite sophisticated moderation tools
that can be that can be implemented.
Dave Jones: Which is always VC money and activity boom.
Adam Curry: So yes, exactly. And then I think then we there's 25
more cool things we can do with our apps and the beauty is
everybody gets to use them
Dave Jones: this as a little bit of a tangent in that direction
has kind of gotten me thinking about this and about how sort of
interactivity between between different players in the
podcasting world that we've been having a there's a real problem
with spam feeds right now. Yes, yes, I know. And to the tune of
hundreds a day that are being that I'm having to remove
manually from the database and I'm working on my side to try to
click to filter those out so that they don't come in
Adam Curry: these are coming in through pod ping mainly
Dave Jones: Yes, yeah. Yeah, through pod pain but other other
ways as well. So they're originating on the hosting
companies and then they're getting pod pain down and we're
picking them up I've had to do I've had to put in a lot of
defense code to try to keep those things out special
Adam Curry: military operation
Dave Jones: the SS the smoke the podcast index smo and the U
which is which is fine. But like I need these things change they
morph all the time. They're shapeshifters you know what
today it's this one Korean spam thing that is just like below
and things up? I mean, hundreds a day
Adam Curry: and are they coming in from one hosting provider?
Multiple
Dave Jones: and but but a couple of a couple of months ago it was
this Vietnamese gambling side and before that, it was the
escorts you know, and before that, it was movies, streaming
movies and always constant is a constant battle. And what I
would love is to somehow make this an interactive a
cooperative thing with us and the hosts and everybody all of
us together Yeah. To identify these things and and give a
heads up and build out the things to keep to get this
because what what this is about is SEO you you create a you use
the trial account on a on a podcast host he's not you you
hit sign up for the 714 day trial what the whatever that is,
yeah,
Adam Curry: this is this is where it all comes from, of
course, is exactly
Dave Jones: where it comes from you you open up a hosting
account with a free under the free trial. You and then you put
a bunch of links back to your website in all over the place in
the show notes and the title and all this kind of stuff. Yeah,
that gets posted out as an HTML page. Because every you know,
most of these hosts also have a page for your account. And the
instant SEO, some, some hosts some hosting companies properly
set their HTTP response headers and robots dot txt and that kind
of thing to block to block the search their search engines from
ingesting these free trial account pages, because so many
of them don't get in they they still get hammered even if they
do that properly. So this is all about SEO abuse. And I think it
this needs to be a multi pronged effort. I think the hosting
companies are going to have to crack down on this, yeah, can
either make these pages private? Until until it goes live. So
yeah, here's a preview of what your page would look like. But
this is not going to go live until, you know until your
account in this count goes not I can
Adam Curry: track and see where that's a that's a tough lift
with the hosting companies, they want people to get an experience
get hooked and stay. I mean, I understand from their
perspective, what
Dave Jones: the because the other thing is, I mean, like so
the only other way to combat that is once these once a
pattern is identified of abuse, is to document that pattern
somewhere. So that all the hosting companies can see it and
they can all take action at once right and put in a filter and
say like what's been happening for the last week is this one
seemingly Korean based spammer is putting is creating free
trial accounts on all these hosting companies with the term
o p s, s, s i t, that's the string. And that string is in
every single one of these and it's 1000s. And I
Adam Curry: presume that the reason what because the I'm
always looking for why why are they doing this? What's the
benefit? The benefit is probably the landing page that is
automatically created on this host and then that gets picked
up by Google and that's how they use it for SEO or something
else. Yes,
Dave Jones: that's right. They're looking for backlinks.
Yeah, it's a backlink strategy. And so like, because this like
and this is very common, these these strings that they're using
are very easy to identify. So if we had a central place like a
report like maybe a private repo on GitHub or something where we
could people could all participate and say look I've
identified this spam this spam campaign going on right now.
Here's a string I'm gonna put it in the list now you know when
you see that string in your like a fingerprinting easy that
string in there now blocks this block people from creating
graterol
Adam Curry: a crazy idea how about we create a mastodon
account that that everyone could post to?
Dave Jones: That would that would that'd be okay. Except if
it's public, it's more likely to you know a will to see it and
know how to evade evade it.
Adam Curry: Well, here's here's another idea. How about a prayer
circle, but we all pray that these guys stopped doing this.
Dave Jones: This is probably more effective with what we have
now. Hey,
Adam Curry: hey, hey, asking you shall be answered. Hey
carefulness
Dave Jones: this is this is what we have now is not as effective
as prayer
Adam Curry: at the moment at the moment I hadn't learned yet I
haven't started yet.
Dave Jones: Oh, get get cracking brother.
Adam Curry: I will I will be so sad. Yeah. We need
Dave Jones: to send Yeah, with some we're gonna have to the
spammers are out of control we're gonna we're gonna have to
send them and send them to the cornfield. So we just need to
figure out a way to make that app fair. And I'm and I'm open I
just want this to be an open discussion let's talk about it
on the on the mastodon and come up with some sort of game plan.
Yeah, good. Because I'm waiting because I want to be I want to
facilitate this. Like if I like right now I'm logging all of
these things as we block them. I can if I have something as
simple as an abuse email address for each host so that I can say
okay, here's an here's an email address when I see identify spam
campaign and begin to block it I can sindelle a log daily to the
to Buzzsprout to transistor to Spreaker to all the hosts and
let them give them all in early warning so they can then handle
it in their system I'm totally fine to
Adam Curry: do all that because they want it they want to get
rid of it to its resources on their into his bowl no one needs
that Oh, it's
Dave Jones: a pain in the butt Yeah. It's a pain in the butt as
manual work and it's just it's just the work was
Adam Curry: just block Korea was blocked Korea. All right IP
Block.
Dave Jones: Man based on their population, numbers, everything
they've gotten blocked themselves. They have you seen
that they've got the The lowest birth rate in the entire world.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it'll we just wait long enough the spammers
will die off. Yeah. They have like 1.3 Children, you know, per
per per marriage. No, they're dying. They're dying like Japan
and China to China eventually will be will just disappear and
the US keeps growing because our borders are open.
Dave Jones: That's great. Hey, man, we had three kids, we did
our part you did know, between the replacement value
Adam Curry: between Tina and I've, we have three but you
know, that's a combined six marriages. So we didn't do such
a great job. Yeah, you're below the fit. We're very below that.
I feel bad about that. You should. Sorry. Well, that
answers a lot of stuff. I'm I'm kind of Yeah, okay. Good. We got
you got some stuff on your list?
Dave Jones: Yeah, I've got stuff on my list it will the iTunes
block tag? Oh,
Adam Curry: yeah. Yeah. This, you know, I'm, I'm kind of all
in with you. It's like, there's lots of stuff that just gets
ignored over time. And the iTunes block that they ignore
themselves, why should we respect it? You know,
Dave Jones: the only reason that I respect it, because I know. I
know her hosting companies that use that as their primary
identifier of the things they don't want listed. And so I'm
like, you know,
Adam Curry: we have a block tag, we have a block tag for that.
And we will respect our own block tag, and people just need
to start using that.
Dave Jones: That's a good point.
Adam Curry: I mean, it's, you only have to change the words
iTunes to podcast.
Dave Jones: That's true. We built it to be completely
backwards compatible.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's a drop in replacement almost. And then you
can actually list exactly, I think we have the list. I know
that that let me see I have it on this show. Not nothing. I
mean, ha ha ha ha, of course, if I look at show info, show info
we have where's my blocks, your block is blocked on Apple,
Spotify and Amazon. Apple didn't respect that. I didn't put it in
there. It just showed up in their index. Someone else puts
it in there.
Dave Jones: For clarity for people who don't know what we're
talking about. There some call over it pod verse, send us an
email and said, Hey, we got a request for this podcast, but
it's not in the index. Or it's in the index, but it seems to be
hidden remark. Do
Adam Curry: we have a lot of those? Because I get several
requests. Hey, I'm not showing up. I tried to add it didn't
work. And then you go look, and now I'm trying like, oh, block
tag? Who was putting these? It seems like a lot comes from
anchor? Or?
Dave Jones: Okay, megaphone? Yeah. I think I think a couple
of things are happening here, I think anchor may have because
all of a sudden we started getting a lot of these from
anchor. And I think anchor may have changed some sort of
default or something is what it feels like. Yeah, it does.
Anchor may have changed the default to where now there's a
block tag. I don't know what
Adam Curry: they're doing. My thought is, they're not playing
nice. They set the defaults so that they will have a Spotify
advantage. And your podcast doesn't show up in Apple
automatically. That's my thinking. And Apple is sitting
there going look at these efforts. They're putting a block
tag in Hey, you come over here, you add it will add it.
Dave Jones: Yeah, they're like, they're like you think you're
doing something but we ignore that tag anyway, so it doesn't
matter.
Adam Curry: Yeah. So you know, why shouldn't we just start a
revolution use the podcast blog tag?
Dave Jones: And it's not most of these are not that huge of a
deal because they're very, very small podcasts. And so they of
course, we fix it every time. But then you hit a you hit one
note the other one did today they call emailed about was a
big it's a big podcast is forgot which one it was some kind of
health scientist guy. But it was a big evidence. He's got a lot
of he has a big podcast, it gets popular. And and I look and it's
got blog tech sector, yes. And its own megaphone, which is
Spotify. And it's the iTunes block tag is set to Yes, get it
but it still appears in Apple's directory. Yeah, but because we
respect the tag it does not appear every time the aggregator
pulls the feed. It doesn't matter if I unblock it if a if a
resurrect that feed is just gonna get read read dead and
again, read died again. And so now we only have one choice,
which is ignore the tag. I mean, in I'm like you I think you're I
think you might be right I think I think for the podcasting 2.0
hosts hosting companies we have relationships with we may need
to say okay, iTunes Since this iTunes tag is not reliable,
because the because Apple will not is not respecting it,
therefore, we can't properly respect it because it's messing
things up. And so if you want your if you want to feel
blocked, you're going to have to use the podcast blog tech. Yeah.
Adam Curry: I'm just chuckling thinking that back in the day,
the early days, we got pissed at somebody would send them an
email flood who are paying for paying flood. Now, it's like a
flood. Yeah. It's like, Hey, if you if you don't take care of
this, then we're just going to reroute every single spam
account that comes in through you. We're going to create an
account on your service.
Dave Jones: Do you know about tar pit? And what was?
Adam Curry: What was tar pitting? Again? I
Dave Jones: don't remember it's you purposely make your TCP
handshake delay for like,
Adam Curry: yes. Yes, I remember that, though, man. And there was
also there was another cool thing we had if you had
someone's IP address. And they were using Windows, you could
send this really complicated command. And it would
immediately blue screen them. Remember that one?
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's the one where you like con pipe one.
Where
Adam Curry: are you overflowed some buffer somewhere? Yeah, am
I doing though? Yeah.
Dave Jones: That's, you know, I was. I don't think we have time
to talk about it today. And I don't want to get in. I do want
to talk about it next week. Is all the stuff with the pod verse
and the
Adam Curry: metadata drama? The Mel
Dave Jones: yes, that I want to talk about that next week. But
there's
Adam Curry: just just a simple misunderstanding.
Dave Jones: I think it's more than that. Well, I've got my
own. I've gotten my own thoughts
Adam Curry: about it that while we've delayed this for three
weeks now, but you know, in, in another week, who will want to
talk about it's gone. It's and people aren't talking about it
anymore. It's done.
Dave Jones: Dad, I've, I've got I've got an extensive set of
notes. Okay,
Adam Curry: but so do I. So we'll talk about it next week.
Dave Jones: It really reminded me of that, because you remember
hot linking to images. These nasty you're stealing
Adam Curry: my bandwidth?
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah. How dare you, you know, stop me and they
you? Oh, man. That was like the biggest thing back then. Oh,
Adam Curry: I remember it. Well, I remember it. Well, people
would steal my red ball dot GIF.
Dave Jones: Or your little gas with the shovel.
Adam Curry: dirt under construction. Oh, goodness. I
guess one more thing that came up, which I thought was
interesting. Steven B is looking at making landing pages for
music for artists. And yeah, it was a productive conversation, I
think where it landed to coined the phrase no pun intended. was
to use medium equals publisher.
Dave Jones: Yeah, do we need to? I feel like I feel like we have
enough consensus around the publisher feed idea to to
formalize that,
Adam Curry: I think I think we're pretty close. I mean, I'd
like to see if that works for Steven B in what he wants to do,
but feels like a good idea. Feels like we're there. I've
really seen
Dave Jones: no pushback of any magnitude on the publisher feed
idea. Everybody that has looked at it seems to be pretty much on
Yeah, on the ball. And it's already get it's kind of already
getting built out. So I mean, I'm,
Adam Curry: I'm good.
Dave Jones: I'm good. Yeah, I'm kind of thinking maybe in the
next couple of weeks, go ahead and stick in that. We're at
least writing writing it up so people can review it. You
Adam Curry: know, we're coming up on tax season, the nature of
your of your real job that actually keeps the lights on in
your house and keeps you filled with beef milkshakes. Yeah, you
have to leave on time. Oh, wow. And we're already there aren't
we?
Dave Jones: That's good. We can we can go ahead and start
thinking some people know I was gonna play a song but if we
don't have time, Oh, good. No, hit it hit. I want to hear a
song. I mean, I got my blood pressure was up. Antitrust.
Okay, we'll
Adam Curry: play a song. It's a mellow song. This is coming from
wave Lake and they've assured me that all the rights have been
taken care of so it's on them but it's just the classic. I
love this version. John Peterson. We were singing it
before we started the show sitting on the dock of the bay.
Watch feel free to boost everybody
Unknown: Dark watching
dark
free school
a slightly
darker
way
wasting time
cheers change
wrist in my bones
is wrong
long ways to
Adam Curry: go John Peterson sitting on the dock of the bay,
podcasting 2.0 Thank you to the anonymous podcast pod verse user
who boosted 10,000 SATs. Oh, nice. All right, nice. I liked
that version.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's a good one. That's a great song. To
classic.
Adam Curry: Let's thanks people. So besides that anonymous pod
verse user Sam Sethi comes in with another 10,000 SATs Dave's
activity bridge is an activity stream with a single verb called
follow. This then publishes a new post or action every time a
new episode is published that I follow. Okay. I'm even more
confused by think I think I think I know what we're doing
here. Cotton Gin 3333 boosting for sitting on the dock of the
bay. Thank you cotton gin and we have that 3333 from anonymous go
podcasting. Let me see we have Cole McCormick. Short roll of
ducks. 2222 I see more reason to be aligned with podcasting two
point every day. 2.0 every day. Thank you. He says God bless
podcasting. I think he has. There's a 10,000 from Sam.
Blueberry 5555 Rose swans Oh, Eric peepee that's, that should
be swans in the helipad. 5555 I have feeds Oh, yes. I feeds
ready for April 6. Taylor sound live and he's got some links
here. Today I'm flying out to tour with REO Speedwagon. Whoa,
no. Ah, blueberry man. So yeah, they're doing the big show on I
think it's April 12. And blueberry will be on this show.
Talk about it. April 5, April 6, I think we look fifth April 5.
He also did a big goat drive right after no agenda on Sunday.
And he's spending another 5555 this was to to boost and to
raise funds for some of the stuff that needed for that
concert. It was a bloodbath. We broke Eric p p scoreboard so
happy that went well. Yeah, they made the fountain top 10 Oh,
yeah, that was they raised a lot of cash. That's so cool. I love
it. Rove ducks from the tone record. Another lunch break
listen moving sets between nodes and POS podcast app wallets
keeps getting easier. Thanks devs and builders. It's very
kind. And let me scroll down here. I think I hit the
delimiter. So that's when we see one more came in live here,
Alberto. There he is Alberto rss.com boosting from true fans
5000 sets and it says love that version of the song. I don't
know if he did it during the song, but I didn't get any
remote item. So maybe it came in late, but that's the way it is.
But thank you very much. Oberto a good day. Good to see you're
listening brother. Yeah. Congratulations with the
acquisition of the Beisa half of Mexico. Bison. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Not half more like a you know,
Adam Curry: they bought they bought Mexico. Yeah. Yeah, I
think Albury is cheap right now. Umberto is the cartel. Just so
you know.
Dave Jones: Yeah, the kingpin? Yeah, well, we'll stay
Adam Curry: nice. We'll be real nice though.
Dave Jones: We got $1,000 for the boys Buzzsprout
Unknown: podcast a bolo. Whoa, Karla. Play on am Paula keeping
Adam Curry: it alive. Thank you. Thank you so much. Buzzsprout
appreciate that. Tom
Dave Jones: Rossi just sitting around snow ski and all over the
place. Get back to work, man.
Adam Curry: Get back on that spam.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you spam is out of control. More Marco
Arment coming right in $500 Man
Adam Curry: love it. Oh, much marks. 20 is blamed on the true
value for value. We love it. I should have reminded everybody
that this whole project everything is is no corporate
creepy corporate money. No advertisements, nothing. It's
just Adam and Dave running it running with scissors with a
band of crazy people over it. No, podcast, index dot social.
And all of this keeps the machines running and builds up
the builds up the supply. So we keep can keep it running. If we
fall down. Before we've figured out. Alex Gates has figured out
how to build the consensus chain, or whatever it sounds
like he sounds sexy to me. I like it. I liked
Dave Jones: it as a good. It's a good show type of consensus
change the Yeah. And I like to remind people, I mean, the
hosting companies, and all the podcast apps, they all compete
with each other. And they all support it. Also, they all
support the index and 2.0. So that because me and the rising
tide lifts everybody
Adam Curry: is almost like communism is great. Is a
socialist utopia. It is it works.
Dave Jones: And thank you guys appreciate that. Kevin Bay $3.83
from the monthly payment from the podcast index and official
endowment fund. How much $3.83 Thank you. We may need to look
at putting our cash reserves for the index into some sort of like
interest bearing account, because it's just basically
sitting there losing inflation on a consistent basis.
Adam Curry: Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point.
Dave Jones: Okay, ma'am. We're not getting any interest. No,
no,
Adam Curry: I'm sure we can buy a certificate of deposit CD.
I'll talk to I'll talk to my man Josh over there at the bank.
Dave Jones: Yeah, maybe we can do some work. We're just
Adam Curry: small community bank here in Fredericksburg. So we
know our money safe. We guess we should buy Monero Yeah, bet it
all on crypto. Nathan. G there's a good
Dave Jones: plan. Yeah, all in all, Chip. Yes. Yes. Fully
Adam Curry: Dogecoin
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, yes, Alana. Jean been 3013 37 Lee
boosts he says you mentioned Roku basically being an app
store. They're also in the advertising game because of the
data they know about their user. Yes.
Adam Curry: In fact, they they probably use activity streams
and they spy on everything out if you I set up a network I set
up a network trap one time just a sniffer. You pick up the
remote you just pick it up fires off all kinds of commands back
to HQ. Yes, just picking up the remote not touching a button
just picking it up. They know the angle you're holding it they
know everything so they know they even know the angle I'm
yelling Yep, we tilt it it starts sending off data. Oh yeah
it's disgusting.
Dave Jones: Why why do I just want an ISO of you saying they
know the angle you hold it
Adam Curry: was just one that's where we have the ISO bought.
I'll get that for you. No problem. debased
Dave Jones: ghost 21,011 says through fountain he says DJ my
DJ app of choice that is DJ a Why is made by algorithm. The
app allows users to use their local music library recording
enabled, or log into Beatport Apple Music SoundCloud title
recording disabled using streaming service tracks
Beatport and SoundCloud offer DJ subs to enable using the
library. Oh, now
Adam Curry: I understand. Okay. Yes. So it used to be, you could
use these apps you used to be, you could use them on Spotify,
and it was an app that you could have on your, on your desktop or
on your, on your phone, and it would tap into your Spotify
account. And you could basically mix records, mixed tracks, from
the Spotify. Library and Spotify, of course, turn that
off, because oh, gosh, DJs are using it. It's on a It's not
approved use. It would be fantastic. I don't see why, why
that wouldn't be possible. It's just there's no interface for
it. But I see I don't see why DJ app couldn't tap into that. And
just pull up the songs have the library like split kit or LM
beats has and you select and accuse it up and just makes it
reading just stream right over the pipe. I see no reason why
that wouldn't work.
Dave Jones: He says Can the V for V library be made available?
DJ creates a playlist for recorded sets using track
history. Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, it was great.
Adam Curry: I mean, the trick is the mixing part. But otherwise,
yeah, I don't see why that wouldn't work. Definitely.
Dave Jones: Does. That must been what you use back in the day for
me theoretically. Back in the day, when there was, you know,
daily source codes. Then you're using that Spotify thing, right
for a little
Adam Curry: bit and then they turn it off because it was
great. Okay. Yeah, it was great. It was Oh, so cool. That's why
they turned it off. Because it's great. Yeah, of course. Oh,
Curry's using it turn it off. Loan
Dave Jones: loan Yank essential Richards 11112 Fountain he says
go podcasting.
Adam Curry: Yes, we can we can go podcast.
Dave Jones: Farscape Ian 10,000 says through founding says we
need to expose RSS feeds as pair endpoints. What is pair? PE AR
what is that? Parian.
Adam Curry: PE I don't know. This is This is yours. To me.
This is not something I understand.
Dave Jones: Is one of those things where in about 10 seconds
the chat room is gonna blow up saying what periods and I'd be
like, Oh yeah, duh. I don't know. Mike Dell 1701 Star Trek
boost through cast man. He says I have looked at Netflix and
Paramount. Plus, Wi Fi likes Netflix. And I like Star Trek.
As do I like marks 3111 SATs through fountain he says content
greater than network.
Adam Curry: Agree. Yes.
Dave Jones: Jean Everett, who is not Jean been?
Adam Curry: Yes, we've established this. We establish
this sent
Dave Jones: 10,000 SATs through fountain in Reno. What he says
comic strip blogger is our delimiter he sent 24,000 SATs.
Whoa, mountain.
Adam Curry: Thank you so much for blogger. I can't wait for
this booster Graham.
Dave Jones: He says hold on we get my voice Yeah. How do Jesus
fans Adam and Dave. I'd like to recommend shows and podcasts of
Ben Drew. He has the excellent YouTube channel for microphone
reviews, which you can find at www dot youtube dot coms forward
slash podcast EJ. Additionally, he hosts a personal podcast at
WW dot band Drew says.com. If you need comprehensive
information about all microphones, I encourage you to
watch bandroom YouTube channels. His YouTube channels are also
available as audio only podcasts. Andrew is also an avid
guitar player, yo CSB.
Adam Curry: coordinator co pilot in networking an endpoint pair
represents the communications endpoints for network
connection. I don't think that's what we're looking for copilot.
Dave Jones: That seems weak. In
Adam Curry: client server communication. The client and
server each have their own local endpoint and together they form
an endpoint pair for the connection Okay, okay,
Dave Jones: let's figure that out yep. Yep, I don't know I'll
figure it out let's see yes subsea sup Yo sup it is
pronounced guitar
Adam Curry: yes it is get guitar or get fiddle even suffices.
Yes.
Dave Jones: I don't know why. But again for the second week in
a row have post delimiter booster grams and a 50,000 from
Kevin Bay. Oh, I just see this. No, I did not. He says thanks
for making it possible for me to play DJ with my podcast sets and
sounds. It's too much fun and so shocking every time I get a
boost. So here's a boost back.
Adam Curry: Oh, thank you. Luckily,
Dave Jones: I don't know. I've gotten my algorithm algorithm is
mixed
Adam Curry: algorithm algorithm out of sync. Yeah,
Dave Jones: it's not right to have post delimiter text that's
that's an error things wrong there. Pot home also sent Barry
there buddy Barry in the Netherlands 50,614 sets the
podcast guru. Whoa. He says thank you for all your support
guys. I really appreciate it.
Adam Curry: No thank you. Appreciate it. I've been sending
customers shoes way. Yeah, people from the Netherlands like
hey, I'm Dutch. Oh, meet the Dutch meet this guy.
Dave Jones: Do you get a lot of emails like that? Hey, I'm done.
Oh, yeah,
Adam Curry: very, very much so.
Dave Jones: That's funny. And finally Nicolas be 58 5000 SATs
to fountain he says Bitcoin Association Switzerland is lit
back on back on the way home from the meetup boost
Adam Curry: no boosts or as we say, You go,
Dave Jones: I will fix my delimiter problem next week.
Adam Curry: Okay, thank you all very much. We got some
monthlies.
Dave Jones: We got some monthly so that Satan's lawyer down
under $5.
Adam Curry: How can we not sending 666 I'm so disappointed
what an opportunity.
Dave Jones: Something to know about Satan. He's diabolical,
but he's not exactly forward looking.
Adam Curry: And he always overplayed his hand is is my
experience.
Dave Jones: Very small time horizon. Thank you. Yes. $5.
Charles current $5 Christopher Raymer $10. Thank you, Chris.
For James Sullivan. $10. Thank you, Cohen, glassbox $5 and
Shawn McCune $20 Thank you. So wonderful.
Adam Curry: Thank you all so much. As I said earlier, it's a
value for value project and podcast. We put all of our
Bitcoin bits and bobs our SATs onto the node provide liquidity
I still so many people don't know this. If you need a
channel, I'll open one to you. That's why we have it and we
have plenty of capacity there to open up channels. So just let us
know. And of course, we keep all the rest in a non interest
bearing account. In an inflation, losing money losing
account, we got to change that is a good point. I hadn't
thought about it. But that's really to to keep the index
running should harder times hit upon us, Dave and I take
nothing. We're very happy to do this. We love it. We love being
a part of this community. We love that it's been here if you
want to. There's been here this long and continues to flourish.
If you want to support us go to podcast index.org at the bottom
to read donate buttons, one for your Fiat fun coupons through
PayPal, the other side of Tally coin, nothing on the tally coin
today for your unchained donations. And of course we
recommend that you check everything out at podcasting.
to.org Daniel J. Lewis still looking for more marketing
information for listeners, I'm sending people there. And you
can see all the apps there or go to podcast apps.com And thank
you so much for supporting podcasting 2.0 And that wraps it
up. You gotta get back to the day job. You gotta you gotta
hustle, bro. Gotta get going. I
Dave Jones: gotta hustle. All right, hustle never stops
everybody in the boardroom. Thank
Adam Curry: you for attending. I think we we got into some big
stuff today. Looking forward to next we do have a guest next
week on the show.
Dave Jones: Do What did you ask me that was wrong? Where's my
calendar? Sorry. Oh, sorry. No, it's just it's
Adam Curry: the first topic will be metadata drama.
Dave Jones: Yay.
Adam Curry: Great weekend Dave. Get into growth my brother Take
care everybody see you next Friday for podcasting?
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