Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 For April 19 2024, episode 176 angel
number oh hello everybody. Welcome to the board meeting for
podcasting. 2.0 I think this is happening day. I gotta count the
blocks to make sure that means it can be super special
everything you want to know about podcasts, the future of
podcasts and podcasting, what was what is and will always be
podcasting 2.0 The only boardroom that will never be
available on video. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the
Texas Hill Country and in Alabama the man with the plan if
he can't do it, no one can say hello to my friend on the other
end of one building. Mr. Day, Joe's
Dave Jones: podcasting, 2.0
Adam Curry: podcasting I'm sorry. I mean, I'm excited. You
know, it's Friday so havening was supposed to happen on 420
And I think the blocks move too fast and so it's I guess
happening tonight. The Bitcoin happening?
Dave Jones: Yeah, earlier so that it was like 12 hours.
Something approx
Adam Curry: Okay, yeah, that will probably be just before 11
o'clock. block
Dave Jones: number ad something eight 144,000 or something like
that. 808 40 840,848 40,000 Fair warning up front.
Adam Curry: I just I just got a call from the you know, this is
an automated message from the power company. And they have an
emergency. Yeah, they have an emergency scheduled outage today
at one o'clock. Now.
Dave Jones: I love I love an emergency scheduled outage.
Adam Curry: Let me read the email let me read the email to
me because I'm an email to an emergency planned power outage.
How
Dave Jones: can it be an emergency and planned at the
same time?
Adam Curry: How would the dog is more I got so much going on here
with the dog barking.
Unknown: Need to stop this? Yeah, I
Adam Curry: gotta stop. You gotta stop take for one second.
Hold on. Alright, I'm back here. So Miss explain what's going on.
We have we had a Schedule A planned painting of the inside
of the house. Which is great except Tina then decided I'm
gonna go visit my daughter in New York. Have fun. So now Now
Mike and Aaron who are here are great guys. And I've known him
for a long time. But the house is in disarray. The dog is
really good with them. But you know if sometimes like oh,
here's some plastic she's like well plastic I've never seen
this plastic. So she has to go nuts anyway so no broader in the
studio. At least I just don't want you know, who knows is he's
a big dog stuff can happen. So Oh, yeah. I can have pain on the
floor. Yeah, who knows? Who knows. So the plan power outage
1pm which will be here Central Time. And on the on the
voicemail message they said they're replacing a substation
should only take five minutes. Now I've been around
Dave Jones: them replacing that entire substation.
Adam Curry: I've been around sis admins long enough that don't do
that to me. Don't tell me it's going to be only five minutes.
Don't lie to me. It's just a thing we like Do not lie to me
like that. Now, how long will it take? Well, here's the good
news. The studio, including the router and the fiber interface
are all on ups. So that should not be a problem. And and then,
of course, after 30 seconds, my or 20 seconds, my backup
generator will kick in. So there's no problem there. But
when they say substation, I don't know if that's going to
bring down fiber somewhere. Because you know, we have a ring
here in the hill country. And I think it has their own their own
backup power because with outages always kept working. If
it doesn't, then I'll just have to switch to another network. So
you know, I have sky sky net. sky sky, Link. I've got 5g. I've
got everything so it might just take a second or two.
Dave Jones: Oh man so badly wanted when you were saying I've
got this and UPS and all this kind of stuff. And it'll be I
wanted it to just drop right then. Did the signal just vanish
right in the middle of this and as we were saying everything was
going to be fun.
Adam Curry: That would be very funny.
Dave Jones: It would be great for the show.
Adam Curry: It would suck for the show. We don't want that
funny though. The
Dave Jones: really short episode it would be just be humor be
humor. Like it will be fun to watch at 1pm. Yes, yeah, I gotta
keep an eye on the clock because I want to see if we stay in
business or not.
Adam Curry: It should be okay. We'll figure it out should be in
sysadmin world
Dave Jones: things only take. They think things are either
either unnoticeable or very noticeable. There's no in
between. Correct. Correct. Things don't usually take like
10 minutes. 15 minutes. It's either 30 seconds or it's four
hours. Ah,
Adam Curry: how you doing brother? How was I know you had
the most like the stressful week of the of the year the tax time.
That's what your company does. You got through it. Okay. Yeah,
and well yeah, I'm
Dave Jones: on vacation. Oh man, how
Adam Curry: nice is that? Yeah, I
Dave Jones: did. I've been we've been we live in an old house.
Very old. And so we've been ever since we bought it in 20 You've
Adam Curry: been you've been renovating it? Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah. renovating it room by room and we're about
halfway done. And which I look back and I'm like it's been 10
years and we're only halfway done
Adam Curry: we've been here for three the house is only five
years old but the insight you know it's white that we don't
have kids but you know after a while like yeah the scarf and
everything and grimy So yeah, we're doing all that and then
we're going to do our floor next year maybe depends. So we're
doing the same thing this is our forever house I mean feet first
out of this one I'm done.
Dave Jones: We were we might we might be here forever too. It's
it's one of those it's one of those things and like we we
ended up the house was in terrible shape when we first
bought it we got it for a good price but we we had to do a ton
of like emergency stop the thing for falling down work. Like
right out of the gate
Adam Curry: was Was this a bargain this house was dry
Dave Jones: is a bargain basement. But seeing as hell I'm
such a crafty fellow that was able to do that. Do that really
quick get all that stuff done. And then now now it's all just
like cosmetic stuff. So we're just like, it doesn't the house
you walk in it doesn't look bad. It's just that like it has no
insulation in the wall. So in the you know, in the winter,
it's like oh, it's so cold in here. And that kind of thing. So
now we're going back and just gutting a room doing all the
insulation here Yes, I hear it's just all that stuff this like
yeah, so I'm just doing all that stuff myself because I'm not
about to like drop a you know $50,000 equity line instead.
Adam Curry: Oh, no. What at 8% interest? I don't think so.
Yeah, no, no, no.
Dave Jones: I told him Listen, when I first moved here I'm
like, I'm not going into debt to this house. I'm not doing that
we're almost
Adam Curry: out of debt. We we we might own this house but in
two years. So we done pretty good on that. And oh
Dave Jones: yeah, that's right. drabbit My studio is in the
bargain basement it
Adam Curry: is the is the bargain basement studio BBs,
everybody.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think people have been around since the
beginning of the show. Remember the Oh yeah. Days of me. The
room was just nothing but studs, studs and
Adam Curry: and what have fiber packing, you know the
installations, mineral wool, mineral. That's it. Yeah. Before
we have a great guest today. I'm very excited to talk to our
guests. But we have a couple things to discuss beforehand.
And the thing that I realized I really only listened to a number
of podcasts kind of religiously. And I love listening to all I
love the hosting company podcasts. I may not listen to
all of them all the way through but I usually check them all
out. And then of course there's you know, the the daily pod news
I listened to that I stream a lot per minute and and I love
pod news weekly review that, in fact, it came out last night,
and I was in bed or Hebrews. Oh, there it is. And I think I got
through 10 minutes you leaped out of bed and I know it's next
to me in 10 minutes like I can because you know Tina is not
here. I can listen to this embed, fall asleep. The dulcet
tones of Sam Sethi and but I've listened to buzz cast, you know
the what does that Libsyn Cass new media show the future of
podcasting and everybody's talking about YouTube and I have
to take a stand. I gotta say some, okay, say it to first of
all, I realized the reason why everybody's these these people,
not everybody, but the reason why these people talk about
YouTube so much that because podcasting is stagnant right now
that all these companies and the people who are hosting, they all
really need new podcasters to sign up. That you know, because
you have churn and you're hosting companies and, and you
need to keep that going. That's a part of your new business.
And, and Todd is actually much more open than he realizes
talking about ROI on doing conferences and why he's not
going there. Because, you know, he's got to sign up people. And
you know, everyone has different services. They don't talk about
that much. But now you want us to produce your podcasts, we can
do that too. But their business as our most businesses are
reliant upon getting new people in. And I think this big
mistakes being made here, because first of all, to have
YouTube show. The YouTube music, YouTube Music app, there's just
not a podcast app. But you know, I hear Daniel J like now it
could be really great. I hope they make a great I don't I hope
they burn by hope they burn and fail. These people hate us.
Please understand, Google hates RSS, they hate it. They ruined
Google Reader. Then they aggregated everybody in.
Everybody loved it, and that, oh, no, we've got to do
something else because they make money. But if you think that
they are going to really support podcasts, the way a podcast app
does, you've got another thing coming. There's no business
model for them in that. And I understand everybody's like, Oh,
yeah, but there'll be discovery. No, no, they make money by
getting you to watch as many videos as possible. In his in as
long as they can keep you on the product. They're not going to be
recommending to our podcasts, or even one hour podcasts. That's
not their business model. They won't let you bring your own
ads. They hate you. Don't do this is a trap. And it's like,
Are we stupid? These people do and I'm not against video
podcast. But you can even hear what's going on at the
conference is why the buzz cast was quite good about this. Well,
you know, it's like, you know, in addition to a microphone, but
I need maybe some editing software. I need a podcast host
now but I need to do a video right? Everyone's just got a new
video. And you let the enemy into your conference BLET these
these horrible on the people themselves? Not horrible, of
course. But you let this company who does not like the the basic
fundamentals of podcasting, RSS, do not want that in existence.
And you're letting them in, and, and pet you and fawn over you.
They don't mean well, they want to hijack it. Because I mean,
who turns Why did they turn off? They're perfectly good app,
Google podcasts was a good app. But I didn't use it personally.
But it worked. It had all the all the functions and features
you want had a lot of users. And let's just why did they close
it? Because they don't want that being distributed. That way.
They can't make money off of it. It's It's amazing. I mean, Apple
can make money off of Apple podcasts because they sell it
with their phone is a big part of that experience. It's been
that way for, you know, 12 years or whatever. And it was 20.
Whenever no more than that. Yeah, 12 years. So all of this
video talk, which is, it's it's just people who don't realize, I
think because no one's really doing this. No one's malicious.
But you're you're you're trying to get people excited to do
podcasting. And the Borg has literally kind of told everybody
and even, and I have to take a stand on this too. If you're
going to say, well, and I'll say it specifically James, and I
have great respect for James, by the way, I loved his keynote, I
thought his keynote was awesome. I don't know if that URL was
public, for everybody of his keynote at Podcast Movement.
Great. I've never seen him present great energy. It was
funny, you know, he had it was a very, very, very good keynote.
But I'm just not going to say that. Oh, as long as the
audience calls it a podcast? No, I'm going to I'm just going to
be a hardcore douchebag about it. Because a podcast is is an
RSS feed with an enclosure. That's it. Yeah. And anything
else is a video show a YouTube video. It's just it's not the
same thing. And if the audience wants to call that fine, I'm
still gonna say that's not a podcast.
Dave Jones: I'm actually nervous for the podcast ecosystem that
I'm saying ecosystem specifically because I think
podcasting itself as defined by our RSS feed within within with
an enclosure, that's just that simple technology that will be
around forever. But like the the podcasting ecosystem, and people
we know and love within that system, that's actually nervous
for that. I'm in the reason is because so like, Yeah, I'll
listen to a new media show, too. And Rob, so Rob, and Tom, were
arguing about video for the 17th time. And then Todd said, you
know, Todd's like, well, that, you know, when most people
shouldn't do video, I mean, this is not, they're not going to
most people are not going to be successful with video, blah,
blah, you know, and then Rob says, well, then was everybody
was everybody's talking about video.
Adam Curry: Questions. He's doing it. And
Dave Jones: there's a simple question. There's a simple
answer to that. And it's one we've talked about before. The
Isn't, quote unquote everyone is talking about video. It's not
everyone, it's the advertiser is the dish is the digital
advertising brokers, dealers agents. Yeah, that's who's
talking about it, because they see that the the quote unquote
$2 billion within podcasting was always BS. There's not $2
billion in podcasting, podcasting was the last the last
five years of podcasting. Six years or roughly, of podcasting
was an anomaly.
Adam Curry: Yes, it was free money anomaly, a free money
anomaly. It
Dave Jones: was a free money induced anomaly. And that's it.
So they're shifting. So the digital advertisers are shifting
out of podcasting into YouTube. Because Youtube is where all
their that's where the cash cow is for now. That's where
everybody that's where you can get all the metrics and, and all
that it's the, it's the latest version of Facebook, for me for
media for video and audio. They think they can get all the
targeting, they want all that kind of stuff. Everything's
moving that way. Therefore, all the apt because podcasting is
has, has sort of unknown has, like they've unhealthily tied
themselves to the digital to digital advertising. They're
getting pulled along with it over to as this exodus happens
over to YouTube, in its catabolic to the to the podcast,
industry. If you say, YouTube, is podcasting, you are going to
cannibalize podcasting. And so it means that you're going to
pull audience away from podcasting into YouTube. And
then you're you're going to wake up one day, and the you and the
podcasting industry is going to be it's gonna be completely
decimated. I,
Adam Curry: okay, I'm not that fatalistic at all. You're we're
not going to see NPR, BBC PBS, we're not going to see these big
high end productions available in audio moved to video, that's
not going to happen, they have no money for that. They are they
said the same thing about radio when television came along. What
I found and I am this is nothing personal, nothing person. I love
everybody. I love you all like brothers and sisters. But I do
not want you to succeed by building a great podcast app, I
don't, but I don't want them to do and a great podcast app that
is is is a lot of work, a lot of dedication, a lot of listening
to your up to your users. And you have to be you know, it's
it's a lot of work. And a lot of love goes into that you can and
this is why no one's really done it successfully. And since
Spotify couldn't do it, no matter what they try, okay, they
got 30% But whatever, I don't care. It's it's irrelevant. It's
completely irrelevant. Our job here is to make sure that any
type of podcasts whether it's audio or video, doesn't matter.
My my app that I use does video too. And it seems to work just
fine. I'm not that interested, mostly. You know, the only video
I've really watched these concerts, which work fine. But
in general, I'm an audio guy. And I would wager that a lot of
the so called podcasts, everybody watches, I think a lot
of them listen to it. Now on the on the on a YouTube app, click
Close the screen doesn't matter. This is a beautiful medium is
very cost effective to produce. That's not going to go away. I
don't believe the audience the audience is used. This is like
religion. People who use overcast love it for the
features that overcast delivers to them. But which is not
specifically podcasting 2.0 features. In fact, there's none
of those, the new audiences that we've been bringing into 2.0 I
mean, man, when we changed a little bit of the function about
chapters, which changed the table of contents, and that has
been since corrected. It was like it was like, you know,
Jihad had been committed, like what my chapters are. It was
amazing, amazing what took place. But even even so, I use
the apps that I use for specific and actually I use different
apps for different reasons for different shows. But that's all
very it's a very, very personal experience. And the go ahead me
Oh, go ahead. Google. Go ahead YouTube, try and build a great
app that does Music and podcasting and video and audio
Good luck, it's not going to be very easy. Our job here and our
guests, I'm looking forward to speaking to our guests today
about it. Because I think we can also help the add the mark, I'm
going to call it marketing, not advertising, I'm going to help
the marketing side. Because there there are opportunities
that the all these other platforms and and the agency, I
want to remove all of that. I would love to remove all
agencies, all middlemen, all everything in almost like a
value for value, man. We'll get to that later. But we're wasting
a lot of time and energy. I would much rather talk about
activity pub and the how we're fed defying these apps. And wow,
what a beautiful energy I saw after the board meeting last
week, everybody's posting links and we got ideas and there's Oh,
this guy's doing that. And we've had some private emails, like
you know, here's what I'm thinking about. Then we have
podcast a P, which Stephen released. And, and I finally
figured out the right way to to promote it. And I did it on
Twitter. And man, I got so much feedback.
Dave Jones: Good. Great positive feedback. Only
Adam Curry: positive people like wow, this is so cool. I can't
believe it. Like I can search for my favorite podcast and now
I can follow it in on my on my Mastodon server, very positive
feedback. Just so positive, in fact that I'm like, oh, there
goes the power. Okay. Am I still on? Yeah,
Dave Jones: we're good. Okay, good. So we cut were cut over.
Yeah, we wound up as right now on ups
Adam Curry: now. And we should be no sheets did exactly one
o'clock and generator coming on? Takes about 20 seconds. So I'll
go check in a minute. Because I don't know if I can hear it in
the studio. It's outside obviously. The where was I? Oh,
the feedback. SAP? Yeah, it was so positive. That people give me
credit. I'm like, Whoa, stop. No, no, that's Steven. That's
Dave. You know, it's everybody. Everyone's a big part of it. But
that's no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just here to promote it. And
I have to say, it's, it's a very exciting feature. Okay. I think
that's yeah, all right. Generally, yeah. Can you hear
me? Adam? Yes. Hello. Hello.
Dave Jones: Adam. Can you hear me?
Adam Curry: I can hear you. Johnny came on
Dave Jones: here. And I'm just messing with you, Dave.
Adam Curry: Are the generator just kicks in beautiful.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we're five by five. Sounds great. Awesome.
There's no, there's no generator.
Adam Curry: I'm literally sitting. I'm literally sitting
here going like, wait a minute, if I hear him. I'm like, is this
what sometimes it can be? It can be a buffer, right? It can be a
buffer in the in the software. I'm like, maybe it's buffered
and clean feed day. Anyway, and so what I said and here I think
I don't have in front of me. But my boost was something to the
effect of now you can comment, like, rate and review. Not
entirely true. Your favorite podcast apps on any Mastodon
server. And as I was typing that out, I'm like, by the way,
that's kind of true.
Dave Jones: Like, if you just insert not entirely true, and
then you can say anything you want. You're welcome. I make
millions of dollars. Not entirely true. But well, I mean,
you can
Adam Curry: rate and review was just it would be tax, it
wouldn't be anything that's aggregated.
Dave Jones: No, I think okay, before before I get before I
lose this because I will lose it if I don't say it right now. The
I'm thinking that other other services could put this into
their products. So like, the first thing that popped into my
head was Nathan with episodes.fm. Yes, when you
listen to like when somebody gives you an episode.fm Link,
one of the things on the page where that is could be
subscribed to the podcast on Mastodon yes, we're activity
your whatever your activity pub client is, like, like that could
be integrated into multiple different things to get sort of
like the flywheel going.
Adam Curry: Yeah. There's, there's one thing that I'm
struggling with. Okay. Because when I publish now, I go back
and I publish again for many reasons, you know, if the
chapters have the chapters have to be created after the RSS feed
is created, because hyper hyper catcher, which I use requires
that you know that it has the feed before it can add common
chapters to it. So that's worked fine. I put a dummy chapter in
there and just updates. I also put a dummy. I put a dummy
transfer transcript file, but, and then I also go after the
fact and put in my route post, because I'll post and say,
Alright, here's the episode. And then I'll take that route post
so that people posting on that can immediately start to comment
on it. But what I think should really happen is the post that
goes out and is available on activity pub, I think that
should be the route comment.
Dave Jones: Maybe I'm wrong. Say that again? That again? All
right.
Adam Curry: So when I when I post this episode of podcasting,
2.0. Eventually, what pops up on your federated timeline? If
you're subscribed? Is the post birth right, the episode post?
Should that be the root post? For the social danger? Are
Dave Jones: you talking about what comes from the bridge? Yes.
Adam Curry: Should that be the root post? I mean, it doesn't
have to be I understand what if people start if people start
subscribing to to a show on activity pub, the natural
inclination is to comment on that post. If not, maybe on the
one where I announced the show. Does that make sense?
Dave Jones: In the AP in the AP bridge, when a new episode gets
posted, if there's a comment thread, oh, it there's a link.
Adam Curry: Okay, there's so much information in there.
Probably hadn't seen it.
Dave Jones: Yeah, if you click through to that, it will take
you to the root post and you can come in there. Kind of like them
being separate.
Adam Curry: I mean, yeah, okay.
Dave Jones: It's not it's not like a real I'm not religious
about it. But I kind of, I kind of do think that it feels better
to for me, it's for some reason that I can't really describe.
Yeah, let
Adam Curry: me let me just take a limit. Take a look at what a
post looks like. I'll comment. Okay, no, you're right. You're
right. You're right. I actually I posted something. I don't know
if you saw that. It would be great if you could add a hashtag
podcast to each individual post. So that when I'm in my Mastodon,
I can just say, find me all hashtag podcast posts. So I can
look at everything that's come in. Does that make sense?
Dave Jones: It does what this feels like. Do you want to be on
bringing the guests because of a this? He's
Adam Curry: but I figured the longer we leave him waiting, the
more wine who lived had fun or is the fun, he's got more fun.
He's going to be
Dave Jones: like, This is wrong to talk activity public.
Adam Curry: You're right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are very proud
and happy to welcome to the board room of podcasting. 2.0
The man who is not just the I think he's more of the producer
and co host but co hosts of pod news weekly review. CEO of true
fans, ladies and gentlemen, the one and only Mr. Sam sevi. Oh,
wow. Thank
Sam Sethi: you for that. Thank you. Thank you.
Dave Jones: He left out. You left out titular head of the
podcast. Oh,
Adam Curry: yes. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. spokesmodel. For the
podcast Standards Project. You're I'm sorry. That was full
power. On my part. Sam. Well,
Sam Sethi: most important role. Yes. Thank you very much. Good
evening.
Adam Curry: Good evening. Good evening, sir. All right. Now
he's here. What do you want to do with them? Dave? Well, what
do you want to do?
Dave Jones: Well, I mean, this, but the reason I thought I'd
bring him in, because this was brought up once before about the
hashtags. And it was debated out a little bit whether it should
just be podcast, which kind of ends up if your federated could
end up being a bunch of stuff. That's not actually podcast
episodes, or if it should be some unique hashtag, to like the
AP bridge or something that says, like this is, this is
actually an episode of a podcast.
Adam Curry: That's, that's a point. And
Dave Jones: I don't know what the answer to that is. Do you
have thoughts? Yes. Am
Sam Sethi: I on that one? No, but I do have thoughts on what
Adam was saying. I'd actually like to see the social interact
tag attached to the follow tag, which I think because you're
going to be putting out a graphic which is the episode Alt
or the podcasts are and then nothing below that would be
great because you're otherwise going to have two posts and
people are going to look at that and go, Where do I start? Well,
it should be me
Adam Curry: me just makes a very good point over there in the
boardroom. You says that then you won't be able to moderate it
if it comes from the bridge. Which I think which I think is a
very fair and I'm okay now that I haven't actually seen it but
now there's the common thread right there and hyperlinks. I
think I'm okay with that. I understand where you're coming
from Sam. But I hadn't even thought about the moderating
point and I think that that's a very fair point.
Dave Jones: Well, I've got to make some changes to this
anyway. Change Yes. Those kind Yeah, I'm getting that because
where it says so I'm gonna change eventually as soon as
Nathan gets his episodes.fm updated to handle things that
are non on iTunes. Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to put that in
and take out all of those individual links. Ah, perfect.
Perfect. Yeah, but somebody else had a good a good comment the
other day saying that the posts that are coming from the bridge
did if there's if the episode art is just the same thing as
the album art as the fee level or the production posts that it
should probably should not be immediate attachment within the
post because it just makes it kind of bigger and more you know
a bigger deal
Adam Curry: I'd love to see my art that because I have new art
for every episode.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like if if you have
a show that doesn't have Oh, I see what you're saying. I see
what you're because right now in that case it just the episode it
just posts the same art every single time. The body of the
Adam Curry: post still kind of caches my art but
Dave Jones: oh, is it still? Yeah, I don't know how to change
that. It's mastodon. I don't know how to invalidate a remote
mastodons cache. Or if you can even Well, it's
Adam Curry: funny because it's art from three episodes ago.
Dave Jones: I've noticed that there's a lag it'll be for a
while and then it'll catch an update.
Adam Curry: It's not a huge problem because I see you're
right. The episode art is right there. Actually, you know it's
almost like a feature now. Just like has has has has old art as
the as the badge and then it hasn't had the new art on on
below. It's a feature like
Dave Jones: in the release notes. It says hold old art is a
feature Yeah. Did so when you got when you got elected as the
SAM as the head of the of the podcast, Project grip
Adam Curry: meeting, LLC, I was thinking is this meeting.
Dave Jones: It's like a ceremony where that what like, if, if
you're elected, like the white smoke comes out of the chimney,
not elected the blacks, not like
Adam Curry: any had to lay down like that he had to lay down in
a casket and confess his deepest secrets to them first, like
Skull and Bones.
Sam Sethi: Now, this, this all came about because when the PSP
was formed, what 18 months ago, I thought it was a good idea. It
was going to be all the hosts the apps getting together and I
recommended a couple of other people forward for it other than
myself and my thought, you know, somebody else needs to step
forward. Because it was a case of all the other people we get
were really excited to do, but nobody had the job of actually
doing it. And so I recommended other people and nothing
happened from that. So over in LA, I spoke to a couple of posts
and and I said look, okay, if if everyone's okay with that are
happily step forward and try and do it for a year. And then
someone can take out from from me in a year's time, whatever.
But I've enjoyed the last two weeks, I've been having a call
with nearly every host or every app, and talking to them about
what tags they got, had they get certified where they are in the
cycle, what's coming out with 1.1. So it's been pretty busy.
But I think it's been good fun. I
Adam Curry: want to thank you. You are uniquely qualified for
this job for this position. Of course not a job because you are
uniquely qualified. Although I am not on the mailing list. The
the fact that you sent out a press release, about transcripts
two and a half million transcripts, beloved, that that
is exactly what this group needs. So I hope you're able to
build that up and and actually, I think you will, I mean, you've
been product manager, marketing manager, you know how to do this
stuff. You're good at it. I like that. I think it's a very good
choice. Did they know how to do this? Did you say hey, I want to
do it or Yeah, yeah. Everybody finally we got a sucker to say
yeah, sloping
Sam Sethi: shoulders everywhere else. Yeah, he'll do it. Well,
okay, fine. I actually had been frustrated. You probably heard
me talking to James. No, I
Adam Curry: never noticed. I never noticed it. Never Noticed.
Yeah.
Sam Sethi: But like I think the way I look at it is The group
that we are podcasting to to our group, I think if the r&d group,
you know, we're coming up with face sevens and crazy stuff, the
phase evens popping up. And it's just fun. And it's great idea.
Not all of them will make the cutting floor. But I
Adam Curry: prefer I prefer skunkworks. Yes, that's more,
that's more of a skunkworks.
Sam Sethi: But the the group that's in the middle should be
more of the marketing and PR team going out internally,
between each of the hosts saying, look, here's what's
happening, you're in the group, you should be doing this catch
up or slow down, or whatever it may be. Don't slow down, but and
then I'm also working with the podcast Academy to do a series
of web seminars. Because the thing I noticed was, there was a
whole bunch of people who went to this thing called the
zombies. And I wouldn't know one of those people and they
wouldn't know what podcasting 220 was, but we all pulled
Adam Curry: very smart, very smart, and I love that because
that will actually make them more useful because I find them
highly unusable, may end up and I'll say it, Sam, so you don't
have to in the in the podcasting space. It's great to have, you
know, an award ceremony. I'm against them. I think it's an
anachronism, a rack no RISM an inaccurate help me Dave, an
anachronism anachronism in general. And, and I despise
Awards where you have to pay to to get in, but okay, that's
fine. It's a business model. But you're absolutely right. They
they have is the people who are there have visibility. They need
to it's really for them. I think the podcast Academy, the members
themselves, the board, they are the ones that really need to do
this, because they're all wrapped up in their own stuff.
Sam Sethi: Yeah, and they've been really supportive and
wanting to do it. So we're gonna run through in the next month.
Yeah, we'll see how they go.
Adam Curry: So put me on your mailing list. I want to promote
this. Because I didn't have I didn't have a press release to
point to about the transcription. And this is good.
It's good stuff. I'm excited
Sam Sethi: to take it as given.
Adam Curry: I want to get back into activity pub, because you
were very instrumental in getting me really excited about
it. And so first of all, you're right. Kudos. Good job. You were
pushing it. And I was keep pushing back. Lightly but it
really just because I was ignorant didn't understand it.
By the way, did you know that? Another word for nice as
ignorant. just learned that the other day?
Dave Jones: I know a lot of nice people. Exactly.
Adam Curry: br You are the CEO of true fans. And true fans is a
web app, which functions very well as a progressive web app. I
mean, if I can just have one little bug report that I think
I've mentioned before, but I'm one of those guys who uses a
password manager self hosted Password Manager. And it doesn't
always work that well, for automatically, you know,
fulfilling, but even if it does, because for some reason was true
fans, I'm always being asked to log in what am I doing wrong?
Sam Sethi: Me to find out
Adam Curry: for certain? Because, yes, go ahead. No, I
Sam Sethi: think you know, one of the things I'd say with true
fans, we we've accelerated to try and support so much, we need
to go back and have a look at some things that probably have
rough edges, and hadn't been fully completed are
Adam Curry: good, because it deters me from using it. And I'm
just telling you, because I love seeing all the features and
stuff you're using. But I'm like, Ah, I log in again. So I
gotta now I gotta go to my my app, I gotta you know, have to
authenticate and then he won't autofill for whatever reason I'm
not saying that that's true fans, so Okay, good because it
seems like other people have that issue as well and and so
I'm glad I'm glad you can take that back. I heard you on the
very nice to be usurped who what show were you on two days ago?
All about home pod home thanks Barry thanks very apt to Barry
like oh let's let's have him on before podcasting. 2.0 right
Dutch man Dutch boy got swept yeah we did. We got swept we got
we got scooped scoop actually was great because it was you
know as a nice long form interview. And I love hearing
about mo your developer. I thought that was a fascinating
story. Which we don't have to read discuss. Go everybody
listened to is it all about podcasting, I think is what it's
called.
Sam Sethi: Just about thinking about what about podcasting? And
I
Adam Curry: listened to it every single episode. I love the
people he has on it's a great show, but he did scoop us and
I'll never forgive him for that. Two things I want to ask you
about your viewer your now you probably won't disclose it. But
you're one click top up ads. SATs seems to be something
genius that no one has figured out. And, and you wouldn't tell
Barry how you did it. But I need to ask are you do? Are you a
money transmitter? Because I'm worried about, you
Sam Sethi: know, I'm gonna I'm gonna reveal it like, I thought
about it very carefully. Should I tell other people how I've
done it? And the answer is yes. Because the more apps that do it
the Thank you, brother, thank you get involved. I don't need
to keep that as the secret sauce. So look, one of the
really interesting things it actually came from this show
when I was listening to Oscar and Oscar was talking about
primal and I, oh, my god, primal cadet, how are they doing it?
Okay, so I looked at primal. And it's basically stripe has got a
really cool Apple Pay integration API. You don't have
to go to apple and do anything with the Apple people. You can
go straight to stripe, they do all the work. We took the API.
And we basically do a straight transfer through. So if you say
I want $10, we take whatever that $10 is in SATs and we then
use the OB API. So it comes out of the stripe API, we confirm
the payment, and then we do an instant transfer straight
across.
Adam Curry: So it's running from your account. In essence, yes.
Sam Sethi: Now we're going to OB have got two new products coming
out. One is called OB Pro, which allows you to go over the 1
million sat level, and then they've got a cold of wallet
node that's going to work on Start nine and Umbral and that's
unlimited. And so yeah, it is us doing very,
Adam Curry: very smart idea. But are you are you worried?
Legality wise, are you worried? Because I don't want I don't
want anyone to get in trouble.
Sam Sethi: See right now. We all have permission rather than and
forgiveness later? I don't know. Because nobody, who would I ask?
That's where I get Janet Yellen.
Adam Curry: The President Yeah, the president. Yeah.
Sam Sethi: And he's basically I think he's,
Adam Curry: I think is genius. I love that hack. I think it's a
great idea. And thank you for telling everybody how you did
it. Thank you. That's, that's very, very cool.
Sam Sethi: No worries,
Adam Curry: very cool. There's so much I want to ask you about
but since we're talking about the, the quote unquote, digital
advertising world. And you even boasted about this on the last
show, and then I have some updates of my own. And I'm going
to try and describe what you're thinking about, or what you put
into some degree have implemented. And the and it's
one of the big promises of the internet. And there's really,
there's, I used to say there's two, but there's three promises
that the internet had in the in the late 90s. And that we're
never delivered on the first one was, your refrigerator will know
when you're out of milk, it will automatically order new milk. So
that's, that will never happen. Good luck. You all lied about
that. The second one was micro payments, we fulfilled that
micro payments are here we're doing it, it's we call it
something different, but that's what value for value streaming
Satzes, it's micropayments beautiful. The third one was you
will be in control of your time, and you will be compensated for
your attention. This was the attention economy never
delivered has never been delivered on it, because you
need the previous micropayments to really do it properly.
Correct. Now, the idea is that and I have all kinds of
specifics in my mind, but it's going to outline it. And the
idea is that you can ask your audience to participate for
their time to listen to a marketing message. I'm
specifically not saying advertising because the I don't
like that marketing, message marketing. And, and you can
decide if you want to do that or not, and you will be compensated
for your time. And maybe if, if the marketer is lucky, then Oh,
okay. I'm interested in that product. Correct. I'm just
worried. I'm just gonna say up front as I go through this
because I'm coming at two with an agenda. A friend of mine is a
very successful product marketer. He has a product that
he that 55% of North America, everyone in North America uses
this product, the ACE they are a the category product. This is
eligible for this product. And now it is a subscription based
product or something that comes every six weeks or every you
know, like almost like coffee. It's not coffee, but like that.
The end he wants to play ball. He says he's all in that he
loves the idea. Yeah. And he actually said, can we then also,
the compensate the hosting companies and the app
developers. So this is the kind of guy I love, then, and while
we are value for value mindset and find advertising to be a
problem, I love to zig when others are zagging. And if
everybody is running around the aisle complaining about iOS 17,
aganda, if everybody is complaining about pixels, not
loading and all this horrible attribution stuff, if we can
offer marketers, people who have a product service, board, the
Word of God to market, whatever you want to do, without having
to go through agencies and spreadsheets and all this stuff,
I would love to make it available. And in particular,
for the longtail everybody who has under 10,000 downloads a
month, whatever that means. I want them to be the ones that
benefit from this. How does that sound?
Sam Sethi: Great to me.
Adam Curry: All right. Now, can you explain what the heck you're
doing?
Sam Sethi: Yes, so Well, as I said
Adam Curry: yesterday, this adult diaper subscription is
possible. That's not the one but it is possible.
Sam Sethi: So about a year ago, I came up with a concept called
negative SATs. And I did that because I thought it would be a
great way for creators to pay their listeners fans for their
time and attention. So it might be you've got a brand new
podcast and you have a trailer. And you want to promote that.
And so you might put a small marketing budget aside, you
know, 10,000 SATs, 100,000 SATs, and by putting it as a negative
SAT, the flow of money goes from the Creator to the listener for
the time they listen, the minute they stop listening, the flow of
money stops. So that was the original Genesis of the idea.
And then whoever, and whoever created the genius of remote
item. And finally, time splits over the summer, last year was
increased listening to this and all the pennies dropped. Because
by wallet switching the music, which was the flow of money from
the listener goes to the artists wallet, I thought well hang on a
minute, I've got negative sides, can I get an advertiser in the
same time slot in the reverse way. So I'm listening to this
show, and you've got a marketing message or an advert. And
instead, that of the money switching to the advertisers,
while it like a music artist, the flow of money changes to now
we've split, you know, Adam and Dave, you could say we're gonna
keep 50% and 50% goes to the listener. So now the listener
goes, Okay, I'm getting paid for my time and attention from this
advertiser. They listen to a little bit of it. And if they
don't like it, they skip and the minute they skip, the advertiser
doesn't pay any more. But if the advertiser out, sorry, if the
listener keeps listening to however long they want, to the
advert, they get paid. And then the final part of that is in
your user settings, you can set your sets per minute. So you
might say, Well, if the advertiser is offering 100,000 a
minute, play me the ad, but if they offered me 10 cents per
minute, no, my time and value has much for so now. I tell you
what, skip this ad, and that's it. Now, I hadn't worked out how
it works.
Adam Curry: I love that it's very app specific. How so? When
just from a technical level and Dave chime in, to actually make
this work, but by the way, I think that this that this
offering should originate from the hosting companies, that's
where a lot of the advertising comes from anyway, and so Okay,
fee, and they understand the logistics of selling that and
reporting back. It's okay baby, come here. Come here. Oh, how
does it technically work with value time split? Where? Okay,
so Phoebe. So, my friend de says, I pay he expects to pay an
average of 30 to $50 to acquire one customer on the subscription
service, which is a lot of money nowadays. And I said, dude,
dude, we should be able to do much much better at that how on
a technical level do we do we switch things around where the
payment is actually coming from the so the way I envision it,
the payment comes from the I'm just gonna ignore her comes from
the the marketer. So the marketer has their budget, and
there's a lot of parameters we got to put Phoebe okay, hey,
getting your bed. The marketer has their budget, which also has
to be finite. And everything has to be He switched around. So
everybody's getting a piece. I liked the idea of skipping below
a certain amount of SATs, how that skipping works is a huge
issue, how does it mess up chapters, transcripts, etc. But
just the pure value times, and I hope everyone takes this. I can
feel eyes rolling. I just want to stop, I can feel eyes
rolling. But if we want to really help podcasting up, take
it away from all these eight holes in this horrible industry.
And bring it back to the ecosystem distributed without
anyone being in charge is what I love about it. We don't need to
have one central buyer one system, it can be your podcast
host, you can go direct all of this can be beautifully run. So
please stick with me. Can we even do that on a technical
level? Dave Jones? We can. Sorry? Yeah. I was just waiting
to say yes.
Dave Jones: We have. Yeah, you can definitely do that. I think
on the marketing side. Like on the on the advertisers side? It
makes more sense anyway, because you're only paying
Adam Curry: for what's actually listened to for what's actually
yes, yes.
Dave Jones: You're not throwing money, you're not blindly
throwing money and then waiting for a spreadsheet to say that
maybe this thing got in front of people, you're not sure. I mean,
like, it seems like you would spend less money to reach more
people. And I think I mean, on the on the technical level, it
doesn't seem difficult at all, now that we have the now that we
have the source. And it was wallet in the TLV,
Adam Curry: you know, in a way, fountain is already doing a
version of this. Yeah, they are they're paying, they have the
mechanism of paying SATs already kind of built in. I just don't
know how much of it can really be controlled by the feed how
much of is controlled purely by the feed. But both of you said
yes. So I'm excited to hear that big. And I really want to say
marketer, I don't want to say advertiser,
Sam Sethi: to Adam, when you put booster grand bowl together,
right? You you record the show, and you just play the music
tracks, you did the whole thing in one hit and then you go back,
and you then do the valley time splits into whatever app you
use.
Adam Curry: Well, it's even better than that. Because the
magician known as Steven Bell, Steven B has hooked up my
playout system, which is m err list. So I put the I put all of
my songs that I'm going to play into the split kit. I download
all he then he zips him up, I download all the songs in a zip
file, put that into my my bucket for play. And then regardless of
what song I play, it'll automatically trigger that in
the split kit and put the appropriate start time blank etc
into the split kit. And then all I have to do is go to sovereign
feeds. I say import. And it does it does the chapters it does
everything all in one go. But yes, you're right, I record and
then it later is all put into the RSS feed.
Sam Sethi: And so an adverb or a marketing message is simply an
mp3 file potentially, that you would play just as you would a
music track. And then later on in Split kit, you will just have
a reverse sat element
Adam Curry: can do. Do you like that? And I don't like negative
sides reverse. That's a bad like to come up with another name.
Personally,
Sam Sethi: I'm happy for another name. But that's the only way
I'm negative sounds so negative.
Adam Curry: reversed, so I'm not sure and I'll take it one step
further at that moment in time. So I can imagine, hey, here's
this great product that I know you want this. Here's why you
want it. I have it. I love it. I'm lying. What doesn't matter.
And right now, you're you're being you're being compensated
to listen to this, if you want it, tap on the chapter right
now. I mean, can you imagine how marketers cream over this stuff?
They really do they cream over this. And then it's anonymous.
Nope, at the top there, chap. That's different. I'm not quite
sure if we can like to keep that anonymous. But it the whole
thing is anonymous. You know, there's no attribution unless
you want to give it and then as as you rightly said, now we can
get into activity streams with you for more compensation, which
complicates the technology even more, you could offer more
information to the marketer.
Sam Sethi: Yes, and get paid for it. And I
Adam Curry: am not against this. This is value for value for
marketing
Dave Jones: company. This is very, very platform specific. I
don't because I don't I don't know that you can do this From,
you can't you obviously can't do this from the feed. Because if
I'm a listener, like, if I'm a listener, and I'm listening to,
okay, let's let's just say I'm listening to an to boost ground
ball, and then booster green ball and I'm doing it on cast
ematic, histogram ball, then all sudden, there's an ad that comes
in for a subscription adult diapers, and then eyes and there
will they signal, there's a signal in the feed, at a value
time split that this, that this ad is going to pay, let's say
150 sets for anybody who listens to it. That's fine. My threshold
maybe is 100 sets. But then I don't know how to signal to the
advertiser that I've actually listened. Now now on the on a
platform like true fans, or fountain, it's a difference is a
different story, because the listening is happening in real
time. And so you see, you can, you know, Sam can jump into and
see that transaction as it's happening and do a payout. Yes.
But on an off on an offline scenario like like cast Matic or
overcast or something like that. I don't, right, know that
there's an unnameable way to make that happen.
Adam Curry: That's a good point.
Dave Jones: I think it's I mean, like, Is it doable? Obviously, I
have a second phone.
Adam Curry: I have a secondary mission here. It's also meant as
a marketing tool for podcasting. 2.0 apps. Being that's that's
like booster Graham ball is like, why are you not listening
to this on a modern podcast app? What are you doing? What's wrong
with you stop? You're missing out on half the fun.
Dave Jones: So yes, I think we were like, we built the raw
materials. There. And now, now, it's just a matter of if if a
platform wants to build something out, like tree fans
has, or fountain or anybody else wants to build that out? I mean,
they can do it. And I think I don't think there's anything
else we need to do, I guess? Well,
Adam Curry: there may be like, a special remote item, which might
be necessary a tag in in remote item that says, Okay, this is
this is a marketing block. So, couple things need to happen.
The, you know, whatever the the payment, direction flow is, and,
and receiving app equals local user wallet, and it probably
needs to be connected to a chapter so that the app can
otherwise skip right next to the next chapter. Does that make
sense? What I'm saying? So if it doesn't trigger your threshold,
then seamlessly go to the next chapter. bypassing the ADD?
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah, that makes sense. And because all
that can be defined, I mean, it could be defined in the value
times split to
Adam Curry: Well, that's where I think it belongs. Yeah, cuz
Dave Jones: you're, I mean, this is a value transaction. So if
you're, if you're, you're essentially doing a value time
split, in the opposite direction. So you define that
split. So then you don't have to worry about the chapters
necessarily, you just go back to when the splits the split ends,
everything just goes back to where it was. Yeah, cuz then,
you know, and, you know, you know, where the splits going to
end?
Sam Sethi: Yeah, you have the time marker, as well. So, if
it's skipping, then it just skips forward to the next time
marker?
Adam Curry: Well, I think what you need is, is a speck of this,
Sam, you know, then you're really good at building it all.
And then saying, here it is, it works. But we need a spec that
is understandable. So that, you know, we can we can really so
that app devs can look at and say okay, I believe that the the
by so to speak has to occur with the value time split, you have
to be able to signal to everybody at the same time. So I
think that you know that that has to be something that is
evident in the in the in the remote item, the value time
split has to be evident. This is what's going to happen at this
remote remote this this value time split. And then so the apps
will know Oh, okay, if I want to handle that I need to do X, Y,
Z.
Sam Sethi: Yeah, happy to do I mean, yeah. Again, the way I do
things, you've seen it before I go and build stuff, throw it out
in the world and then wait for everyone to look at it and then
give me feedback. So but I'll happily put us back together as
well. Now conversely,
Adam Curry: if we don't do this, I also have a great example of
what you can do for your advertising problems everybody.
As I was listening to the DNX VR podcast because I always listen
to sportsball podcast. And I heard the hosts do this, okay,
we
Unknown: have a really important ask for everyone which is going
to help you but also help us as well. Apple podcasts did
something at the beginning of this year, I think, where
typically it will just automatically download your
podcasts for you. And that helps us out helps you out by putting
it in there. They stopped that. So now you have to go in and
automatically or in turn on either automatic downloads or
download every podcast individually. If everyone
watching on YouTube, listen to the podcast would go to Apple
podcasts. And please turn on downloads for our podcasts. It
really, really, really would help us out. It's easy to do
just open up our show on Apple podcasts. top right hand corner,
there's a little button. If you click it, it says podcasts have
been paused, turn on automatic downloads hit that it'll help us
out so much. I know Cody is the ultimate champ for everyone
hitting the like button on YouTube. If everyone would go
and do that on podcast, it would help us a ton. Please. Okay,
that was a great conversation. How
Adam Curry: gross is that? How gross is that? Like it's
Dave Jones: yours. But it's basically please please turn on
downloads so that we get downloads candidate whether you
listen or not. Well,
Adam Curry: they're not easy. If you're everybody who's watching
us on YouTube, please. Please commit fraud. Yeah, exactly. And
inflate our numbers. Thank you. DWeb. Thank you. Yeah, exactly.
It's gross. It's gross. Yeah. And that's what everyone's doing
now. Yeah, it makes you turn on automatic downloads. Yeah,
they're
Dave Jones: gross. It's a good it's a nice alternative to
actually doing the real thing. only takes about five minutes is
Adam Curry: an alternative. Yes, it is.
Dave Jones: I think the you know, I was thinking about
because when I remember you who sat
Adam Curry: back, Stephen be nice. SAS SATs back and love it.
Okay.
Dave Jones: So that your the thing you're doing with Apple
Pay. kit, you know, there's there's this constant sort of, I
don't know, drumbeat of we need to do something other than SATs.
Something with with actual Fiat dollars in in, in the, you know,
the that's? I've got a lot of I mean, that's a lot of thoughts
on that. But really, I was thinking about thinking about
it. And if you're doing if you're enabling Apple Pay. So do
you take? Do you get the do you get a fee for that if you're
paying through Apple Pay? Or does that? Since you're using
Apple Pay? Does it pass through with no fee?
Sam Sethi: No stripe tank 2.9% and 30 cents on every
transaction?
Adam Curry: Do you get airline miles?
Sam Sethi: Should they need to link it? You know, for
transparency, we take one person, that's what we're doing.
Right? We need to make some micro payment ourselves right
for feature. So
Dave Jones: Apple doesn't they don't hit you on that payment?
Sam Sethi: No, no, we're not even touching Apple, Apple's 30%
x doesn't affect us at all. So this I couldn't believe when I
looked at the stripe and it's legit. And you can go and read
all the docs and it works. And it's like, wow, this is amazing.
So you know, we've been cautious about it. So we're limiting it
now at the moment to $10 or 10 pounds because, you know, we
don't want to go mad. Sure, there's no limit. There is no
limit, we've set an arbitrary limit right now. Now, what
you're gonna say I spoke to EVO Tara about audiobooks. And one
of the things that we're working on with airhead as well is that
audio books are a one off purchase potentially. So instead
of streaming per chapter or episode, they might want to buy
the book in totality. While in true fans, we show both the SAT
value per episode and the fear conversion in your local
currency below it. But as of Monday, because we've been
working with EVO will show you the total value of that audio
book. And so now we've got integration to stripe, we can
offer you pay with that if you've got that in your wallet,
or pay with fear if you want to as well. So, again, we're going
to experiment this is early days. But now we've got this
mechanism of payment both ways. We're going to try seeing what
we can do with it.
Dave Jones: Okay, so that that answers some questions then.
Let's see Nathan says stripe pays apple 2.15% out of their
cut. Okay. That's a pretty small percentage. Okay, yeah. That was
that was going to be method if there could be moved I'd bet
this there could there could be basically a hiding of the hole
under lying, not hiding in malicious ends, but a, a hiding
of the, of all the underlying plumbing of this. I mean, I'm
thinking about strike with a K. And how they do things,
essentially, you can, you can put money in, move it around,
the money comes out. And if you don't want to, you never see the
lightning aspect of that. You never see any of that any of the
sort of guts. And that really could happen in value for value
as well. You could say, Okay, I'm going to put money in here
into my wallet into fans, or fountain or pod verse or
wherever it is. And then the it just shows up as an ad just as
always denominated in dollars, then moving that around, like,
then if you're paying out to the podcaster, it's in dollars main
cast, thematic kind of already does this a little bit. I had
Adam Curry: a thought on this. Okay. Which which plays right
into this, I'm seeing as streaming sat seems to be much
larger than is really discussed or accounted for because of
booster grams and the nature of booster grams. The original, the
original thought behind stream, I think it's if if the UI UX
experience would change, where instead of how many sets do you
want to stream per minute? I mean, I mean, I just I'm like, I
just 200 sets a minute. That's kind of my standard is like, if
it's something I listen, I have less pleasure. That's 100 sets.
But the original idea was podcast says, Oh, you're Oh,
you're subscribed? Me? Do you want to send value for valley?
Yes, how much per hour $1. And then under the hood, it does all
those calculations for you, it takes care of all that it may
have to recalc on an hourly basis, or whatever, based upon
bitcoin price. But I've always felt that that is something that
might be kind of the easy side or the remote control. You know,
what I mean? Like the big buttons, versus the smaller
buttons and really help people to say, what is the show worth
to you? Well, it's it's an hourly basis is simple. Oh, it's
five bucks an hour to me, okay, boom, will take care of the
rest. And then you can watch it in SAS, you can watch it because
you know, a certain point. You know, Satoshis, I don't even
know if you can calculate that low amount on $1. Denominator.
Dave Jones: Yeah, if I mean, if you're doing that, then you're
in sec, I don't know, it seems like it kind of simplifies
things. But without having to, because we know you can't really
move dollars in that way. It's too clumsy is too costly, you
can't you just dial the dollar, the banking system doesn't move
money like that. That's that's just not the way it worked. You
may have one bank that has something special setup, or even
a few networks, but it's not universal. You can't go You
can't go from here to the UK in that fashion. So if you had, but
you can with lightning. And it just seems like it doesn't
necessarily have to be it just doesn't have to be now no
strike. And this gets into the weeds because strike is using
stable coins and that kind of thing to to facilitate this. But
I don't know if I feel like there's a there's an opportunity
to sort of not really not drive people into having to know what
Bitcoin necessarily is. Yeah, it's a big turnoff. It is and
in? I mean, honestly, do we know what it mean? If you think about
what's happening in the Fiat world with with with government
currencies? I mean, some of that is that's backed by various
different things. Anyway, some of that some of those things,
you know, that those are the bank, the banking system runs on
Treasury bonds and that sort of thing. Magic, it's magic and
magic, magic, rubber and magic. Yes. And so, I don't know, I'm
just kind of thinking out loud, because Todd mentioned it at the
end of Numidia show. And it kind of always comes up. Now, I just
wonder if there's a way to know because I so in my cast
thematic, in my experience, my daily driver in when I go to
deposit some some, some sets in there to boost podcasts. It's
always in dollars, except at the point when I have to load it.
And then I have to think about 50 that, you know, 50,000 SATs,
I'm going to put 100,000 SATs. Well, how much am I going to
load this up with? And then I don't know it just seems like it
may be if you're doing Get with Apple Pay or Google Pay, or
something like that. You wouldn't even have to do that
part. The
Adam Curry: genesis of this is a bit of the Bitcoin Max ethos
when we first started this, there was like, wow, yeah,
everyone's got to live in a Bitcoin standard, you got to be
thinking in Satoshis? I do, I literally do. And the way I do
it is this house would have cost me 60 Bitcoin five years ago,
and now it would only be for Bitcoin. So I do think in those
terms, but I'm in 100% agreement that if, if we can, if we have
an Option, Escape mode, it would bring a lot more people in, and
particularly this genius, genius hack that Sam has invented. I
mean, the so my wife and I have a podcast, and it's called
currying the keeper. And the people who listen the most are
from our church, and they love listening to it, and every
single Sunday, and this, they pull out the phone, can you help
me? I'm trying to figure out how to get these Satoshis into this?
And is this okay? You know, I'm a little worried about all these
questions. Who are the who's Moonpig? Who are these people?
They, they get through it, a lot of them really get through it.
But man, if I could just say just to press that button for
Apple Pay or your or your Google Pay? They would they would be
all over it. Yeah,
Sam Sethi: I mean, what I'm trying to even get to is why
they just say, Look, I just want to put 10 pound recurring every
month into my wallet, we will deal with the SAP payments from
that, we will do that.
Adam Curry: Can you do that with Apple Pay, you can set them up
on a recurring,
Sam Sethi: recurring, we are implementing that. Beautiful,
beautiful this is. So this one we're implementing is a payment
out, by the
Adam Curry: way didn't want to insinuate the church people are
dumb. But it's older people.
Dave Jones: This is the other issue that, you know, I have no
problem with any of this. I'm experienced with Bitcoin and
that kind of thing from a long way back. So I was going to pay
my and did pay my brother in law for doing my taxes this year.
I'll pay I was gonna pay him in, in Bitcoin, just because he
didn't have any. And then he was like, Yes, he did. You know, he
doesn't usually how
Adam Curry: come? We didn't? How come? We didn't take any bitcoin
from the podcast index k one. Is this true? Dude, I have to write
it. I have to write a check to him. That's no good.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it was like, Hey, he doesn't usually charge
me at all to do my taxes. And he's just that kind of guy. But
I was like, Look, I've got to pay you something. I mean, this
things are getting more complicated. And I was like, let
just let me give you a couple 100 bucks a bit. Just for fun.
And he was like, Yeah, okay, listen, this sounds fun. And so
I said, so I got him to sign up for Cash App. He verified
himself went through that whole thing. And just because of our
ad sin in the past Bitcoin to my kids through cash app, and it
was pretty simple. And I didn't have to get into full full with
them having some sort of dedicated wallet. And so he
says, he said, now he gives me his cash app handle. And then I
say, okay, 200 bucks worth of worth of bitcoin. I'm gonna send
and I and I said, here send this to them. Well, they rejected it.
I was like, wait, what? They rejected the transaction. This
is weird. I mean, I've been I've never had a problem with this
before. And as like Did did you verify your case? Uh, yeah. Like
showed him a picture of my job. And I was just
Adam Curry: because he's a new they thought it was fraud. Yeah,
Dave Jones: and so I open up a customer service request. And
I'm like, Hey, I just tried to send some bitcoin and my brother
in law and rejected it and they said, We cannot help you with
this. With this, this case is closed. And I was like, Okay, I
was like, well, can can you give me any indication as to why they
said I'm sorry, we can't give you any more information this
case is closed is there anything else we can help you with? They
will refute would not tell me why it was rejected. Anything
like that? And I was like, You know what? This sucks. So we
switched over to strike. And I sent him and it worked fine. But
this is the problem is that there's if you're dealing in the
world of Bitcoin, this stuff is not always it just doesn't It
doesn't just work. There's stuff like this that gets rejected all
the time. Now this happens in the Fiat world to mean things
get rejected. We know PayPal does weird things that not this
doesn't always go smooth there either. But when you're in the
Bitcoin world, it just seems unnecessarily convoluted. And,
and I think I just think there's a real opportunity here for that
to change.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm with you.
Dave Jones: Because you, because, I mean, it was it was
frustrating. The trips are trying to get through that. And
if you have somebody who you're trying to guide through that
process as a podcast listener and they hit a wall like that,
they're just done. I mean, like, I don't have time for this.
Life's busy. You know that it's just, yeah, no, no, just there's
something to think about.
Adam Curry: Sam, hello, hello. How many wines have you had?
Sam Sethi: In teetotal? Since LA? So? What's wrong with you?
Oh, fat boy, Sam over here. I've been told to lose.
Adam Curry: Fat Boy Slim brother. Nice. Yep. Okay,
version. Do you want to talk? activity streams?
Sam Sethi: Yeah, let's do that. I'd also if we get time likes
talking about the medium tag?
Adam Curry: Well, let's do it. Let's do medium to medium first,
let's
Dave Jones: do medium that said on my notes. Anyway, that's a
Adam Curry: broad, it's a broader, and I have something
for that, too. It's broader, medium tag.
Sam Sethi: Okay. So I think the medium tag is a real opportunity
for all of the podcasting, Tito apps and hosts to extend beyond
just podcasting. Agree. And we've seen Spotify announced
courses, and audio books and all sorts of things, right. And I
feel we're not taking advantage of the technology that we've
already invented. So on true fans, as an example, we already
support all the current mediums. And I've been working in the
background with Michael wave leg. And I've been talking to
Patrick at this, def topia, and I want to talk to Davi Das, and
Oscar and everyone else. So tonight, we literally did it, we
created a brand new music category list. wavelike started
it, and it's very extensive. And I want to share that out. And
what we do is when we see medium equals music, we switch the
category list from the Apple category list to the wavelet
category list. Now wavelength is now allowing all of their
artists to self define their genre. And so what that's good
for us is that we are now seeing only a couple of that we've
started tonight, but we're seeing now a couple of artists
are now saying I'm r&b and rock and soul or whatever. Of course,
they're all clickable. So now you can go and get discovery on
the categories. So we're bypassing the apple category
list, which isn't ever going to be extended, and creating a
specific music category lesson that's just using music equal
medium equals music. And then this week, I spoke to airhead
and to EVO about audiobooks, so we have name equals audiobooks.
And, you know, we have episodic and serial, so that all works in
the process. And so we did a test and we've now got
audiobooks from EVO in true fans and Airheads got a massive
library of them as well. And what happened was we created a
publisher feed for books so it's live, you can go in and look at
it, it's already on there in true fans. And so we've been
able to use the medium tag to extend to courses with POD home
Barry is doing it is supporting that medium equals courses.
We've got music, we're Davi das and wavelike and dystopias that
we are beginning to see if the hosts would support the medium
tag beyond just podcast as a default, that we could extend as
a group to much more quicker, but they're not doing it for the
Adam Curry: for the D MU people who are very dear to me, will
wave Lake if they are maintaining the the tag
repository? Will they allow other other music hosts to also
add to that list? Yes.
Sam Sethi: And they don't want to retain the list. They've got
it on a GitHub right now. Good. And they want to share that out.
And I think where it lives, it could be on the PSP. It could be
anywhere right? Yeah, it's not owned by wave lake. They are
well aware of that. But they they've done a really good job
of creating an extensive list. I think that's a good starting
point. So yeah.
Adam Curry: Excellent. I love it. I think it's a great idea.
Dave Jones: So if you have Okay, so this is a good discussion
that there was this idea of having a different list of
categories or visit a different genre category keyword list for
for each medium, and this fits right into that because they
really don't, they don't cross pollinate at all in any
meaningful way. A music a music genres are really not going to
touch audio books at all. Pierre so so it makes sense to have
different repositories
Adam Curry: from different mediums Types. Yeah,
Dave Jones: and these are countries like, as we discussed
on the GitHub, there's like controlled, you know, what they
call controlled vocabularies, where you say, well, here's,
here's the things that are the most common things that you
start with. So if as you're searching to add a tag,
autocomplete thing to help you autocomplete Yeah, and then as
you and if it's if you just if the thing you're doing is truly
unique and doesn't fit into a pre existing tag, you just add
that and it's fine. But like I do, I do think there's, there's
some, I don't know whether that needs to be defined somewhere.
Or if that's purely just a per platform thing, where the
platform is just No, I mean, we can document it and say, Okay,
for the, if the medium equals Music,
Sam Sethi: start with this this already, Dave, we have a
taxonomy for the person tag right. beyond what we did, it
was created by a third party group. And when you add the
person tag, you look at that taxonomy, as a defined list.
That list is now static, and it needs to be updated. But
fundamentally, that's what we work off. And we have the same
one with Apple categories. It's a defined list, and we will work
off it. So I think we as a group can then say, Okay, well for the
extended categories for audio books, and music, and film and
courses. And whatever else we want to add, we know we want, if
you want me to talk about events, as well, but the whole
thing can have a very simple and it's easy to do, because all you
do is look in the feed for medium equals and then you pull
in the category for it. Now, a lot of people want free form.
And that's fine, you've got a key word listing within the RSS
feed. And that can be user generated by the No, if you want
to enhance or add to that defined category lists as a
individual podcast creator, we'll put them in the keyword.
And that's fine, we will look at the keyword for additional
listings that you want to be known for.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and I think that can just be thinking about
where to put it in the namespace definition, it could just be in
the medium tag, a reference to where those two those lists.
Say, here's here's the list for this, for this tag, start with
this list for this text, em or for this medium, start with this
list, blah, blah, blah. And then where the lists are the
definition of the way the listings work, could be some,
you know, that that would live somewhere else. So like, the
tags, the TAT, the the categories tag, can define the
behavior of, of the categories and the way they're defined in
the feed. And then the medium tag defines which category lists
go with each medium, to anything. I think that all makes
sense. I'm looking at you're looking at true fans at the
audio books. I'm looking at Seventh Son Book Three
destruction, and click
Sam Sethi: on click on that. And then you'll see just below the
title in the next page, you'll see published by Scible.
Scribble. Scribble. Yes, yeah, click on scribble. That is an
audio book publisher page. So it's a publisher feed for
scribble based on the audio books that they have. So that
was a test we did with Evo.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And I see Evos here as the person tag is the
booking coordinator. Yeah, we just did is a very quickly.
Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. So like, so here's the question,
though. The biggest gripe about audiobooks in podcast apps is
the order of the episodes. Right now see that the order is, is
being chronological, new to old? Yeah,
Sam Sethi: yeah. So we know that's a bug. And we're fixing
that. So although in the RSS feed, we correctly read cereal,
rather than episodic. What we did was we didn't change the UI,
because we haven't had a reason to up until now. So we are
changing it to be based on the series and episode numbers
rather than the date chronology, which is what we've done in the
past. And
Dave Jones: are you going to see that in here's, like you said,
this is where there's, there's this is where it's fertile soil
as a greenfield because and getting a good looking UI where
it feels like you're in an audio book app. Is is that's a that's
a game changer. As soon as you have that it feels good people
start like I listened to tons of audiobooks like the last couple
of weeks, I've listened have completed probably for
audiobooks. My my heavy audible user, and if I had been if I had
a killer app for audiobooks for podcasting, a podcast based
audio book medium, I would be a heavy user of that, but it's got
to feel like the feel is everything. It's got to feel
right I agree with the WaveLight guys in this, because they were
really sensitive to the feel of the app and making sure that it
was a good experience, it felt that make sure you felt like
that the podcast app felt like a music app. And that that's a big
deal. It's a bigger deal than we, then we may think, because
then you go to use it. And it can become frustrating because
you don't know how to get everything in the right order.
And you shouldn't have to kind of tinker around with it and get
to get it to play right, it should just be it should just be
right from the beginning. You know,
Adam Curry: on the medium tag front, I have a remark and a
suggestion and business for anybody who wants to do it. I
was reading a post which showed up on podcast index dot social
from polymesh. I'm not sure who that is. Polly mash wrote a post
is a no equipment podcast feasible with synthetic voice
technology. And it was a whole thing about I should just be
able to type it in and the podcast and I don't need to
bring any gear don't need to do anything. And it'll just create
this podcast. And I can do it from anywhere. I can just kind
of script it out and it'll work and it'll be beautiful. And then
the bottom was like, I know, a lot of diehards will hate this.
And I thought to myself, whoa, this is actually the reverse.
What if medium equals blog was used for web blogs. And that
your app would it now this is assuming that one day this
magical AI technology will really work and you'll have a
voice that will sound so natural, it'll trick me. But
that your podcast app can subscribe to a blog, or a sub
stack may even be more appropriate just to start with.
And in the morning, I said that on purpose, you'll get a new
podcast and it will be a blog or just keep a sub stack on RSS
that is then read to you by your podcast app in a voice that is
comfortable to you the way you like the pacing. You could set
the format read this energetically read this with a
doom voice, etc, etc. And I just wanted to throw that out there
for those interested in AI. If that actually gets to be
something at some point, I think that would work. And
subsequently, I thought to myself, I should probably start
a business where I pay people these millions of podcasters to
read popular posts from people for a fee, which could be value
for value. I asked I asked her I said hey, what do you read the
more conservative Treehouse was one answer, which is a very, you
know, political right wing. You could also say, Politico, I
mean, it doesn't matter, right wing, left wing, if you got that
in the morning, and you could just listen to it with a voice.
A comfortable voice read that to you. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'd love
that. So I'm just throwing that out as a business idea.
Sam Sethi: Have a look at startups daily, I met the guy,
Podcast Movement in LA. And he's basically it's not quite the
blog, or substack. But he's taking a article, and he's
turning that article into an AI voice, and then putting out a 15
minute daily show.
Adam Curry: Obviously, the thing I don't like about that, though,
is that it's very difficult to satisfy everybody. If I have
control over the voice in my app. Now you're talking like I
want a woman to read this I want I want it to be this, this
pacing I want et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I don't think
AI will actually get there where people like it that much. I
can't stand AI voice books. I've tried those like I can't it's
just it's too robotic.
Dave Jones: Anyway, use. I have used it though. Like once. I
didn't think I ever would. But I was I was in the gym. And I was
there was this long article, gosh, this this article was like
6000 words long article that I was trying to get through. And I
just read I really wanted to get through this thing and I'll and
I did the like read it to me function on the iPhone and just
lit and I knew it was gonna get stuff wrong. And he was gonna
mispronounce stuff. And I was like, you know, it's it got more
important and, and it was fine. I mean, it was it was mostly
okay. You know, yes, it gets stuff wrong. But, but he was
able to figure it out, you know, and it worked for me. Here's,
Adam Curry: here's the two thoughts about that. So if you
could control the voice yourself. And I believe it would
belong in medium equals blog. A medium was, you know, type mp3
or whatever. So that, you know, so you know it's an mp3. Well,
two things. One, we said, I said the same thing about mp3, ah,
it's such a degradation of quality. No one will listen to
music like this. It's horrible. It's sucks if the encoding is
bad, no one cared. Everybody know, we're so used to
listening. I mean, I do this, this, this podcast and 96
kilobits per second is low. No one really cared, it didn't
matter, everyone you know, and they've tried all the high, the
high end, high quality, those things really don't work out
that well, that's really for people who have, you know,
people with earbuds generally don't care about the mp3
quality. The second thing I like about this is if it could be in
the podcast app. And this is a way for writers, blog writers,
Article writers to participate in value for value. That I think
would be the big the big revolution. Because everybody
wants to get paid for their for their blog work. Well, I think
that there's a lot of people, but just my my little bit of
market research, most people would be very willing to listen
to a blog post or an article instead of read it.
Dave Jones: Do you? Do you have any plans to support the medium
equals blog? On truth?
Sam Sethi: I think you've seen it already. Dave, when you go to
our feedback, and you can see the blog, we've we've done zaps.
We've done, boost comments, and then you can pay, you get paid
every time you give us a bug report or a feedback or a
suggestion. And in the blog, we've actually just put comments
there and with with payment, but when it's not been designed
exactly to what you're talking about, we didn't have that plan.
But I don't see any reason why. Because it's RSS why you
couldn't do it in the same way. But no, we haven't done it
specifically.
Dave Jones: Because I mean, I can I would love to have you
know, that's it's it's funny this, this is actually a bigger
deal than I thought when I first heard you talking about it,
because I would love to have that. Have my podcast app be my
RSS reader? Yes.
Adam Curry: Well, that's it's exactly the same thing. I would,
I would use it all day long. And I think I could probably get
used to a crappy voice or a synthetic voice the same way I
got used to NP threes. Are you kidding me? I would love and
people. I mean reading I hate to say it but you know, reading is
kind of less of a thing these days. And, and listening. And by
the way, you can still have the transcript running along all
kinds of good stuff like that. I really think that it would take
off. I mean, I know. I know people's Oh yeah. If I could
just listen to this article that comes out every day or sometimes
twice a day, when I'm doing my makeup, not saying it's teen on
or anything. You know that would that would work and value for
value. Sure. Happy to compensate that way.
Sam Sethi: So we we know publisher feeds take a news feed
from James and we filter it by the name of the publisher. So we
take an RSS feed from pod News Daily. And if you're on one
Drees publisher feed, we will show you a tab which has news
related to wandering so that it's not an RSS reader Dave, but
it is a filtered RSS feed based on the name of the publisher.
Dave Jones: That's interesting. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I think I
think that just it just feels like it feels like a greenfield
to me. Yeah. You know, because it, they they're just not,
they're just not that much different. If you think about
it, I mean, it's content in well, everything is some so I
think it's part of partly that. That thing of raw that Rob and
Todd talked about, were they ever raised like everybody is
talking about video. When everybody in an industry in an
ad supported industry is talking about one thing it usually means
you probably want to go the other way.
Adam Curry: The Adam curry rule of technology.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So if everybody's talking about video,
maybe the actual correct thing to do is even less Yeah, even
less media, you know, friend, even even like non non
multimedia go to text. I
Adam Curry: mean, Apple Apple. I'm sure Google has same thing.
But Apple has all kinds of voice since its synthesis on board,
you can tie into those libraries.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and like I said, it was it was a it was a
fun experience. And I chose the voice I wanted and and like I
said it was fine. It was fine. And I'm sure the Google version
of that's the same
Adam Curry: it was fine and And it's still a podcast. It's just
an art.
Dave Jones: I mean, like these are, I mean, they're just posts
and articles. They're not. I mean, you're not expecting, I
guess, you it's different than
Adam Curry: the bar is low, the quality of the expectation is
low. Yeah. Because
Dave Jones: you're half, you know, you're rushing to get
through that thing anyway.
Adam Curry: And how about this, see, once we get there, if we
ever do, I will pay extra to have Adam curry read this to me,
though, I will pay and you're just like, just like we had the
that was, it was a big thing back in the day where you could
change the voice on your GPS navigation, or celebrity voices.
That could be an extra feature. I'm available, by the way.
Dave Jones: Cuz speak to me age,
Adam Curry: value for value. It all fits in the I would just
love to get writers into this value ecosystem. And I
appreciate what you're doing Sam with, with the zaps and the
comment boost and everything. But this is such a non brainer.
And if if AI really is so good, I mean, my goodness, James,
every five episodes of pod news weekly review. He's like, Oh,
Bob, and he plays a synthesized voice. And says, well, it still
sucks. But you know, it's out there. Clearly, people are doing
it. But they're doing it the wrong way around. There's more
content in the written word than you could ever imagine just
waiting to be synthesized and delivered to podcast apps.
Dave Jones: And honestly, the best. I'm gonna bro I'm gonna
broad brush this, you know, but the best content right now?
Probably is written. Sure. I mean, there's a there's a lot of
people that are writing a lot. And I'm not sure why. As far as
like a renaissance of that, but there's a lot of a lot of people
writing that there's a lot of good content out there that if
that I find that I'm I miss if I just get sucked fully into
podcast world.
Adam Curry: But you can also multitask you know, when when
it's being read to you. I mean, how often the only my wife and I
read stuff to each other all the time in the morning. There's Oh,
let me read this to you.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and the one thing that Tybee does that I
think is cool is that he pays a guy to read to read his posts.
Yeah. And he has a feed an RSS feed of that. Yeah, it's like
here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna write my stuff. And then there's going
to be a narrator that narrates each post, and they usually come
out. The posts come out a couple, sometimes a week or two
after the original post piece was written. But I find that
wonderful because I now I don't have to there it is read the
stuff to hit some new mailbox.
Adam Curry: Yeah, you just confirmed it. I
Dave Jones: just wait for it. I just wait for the podcast
version. And then I have a specific playlist just for that
feed. And when I get ready to hear those headlines and read
and have those articles written to me read to me. I just hit
that play list. And I start and I just start at the top and go
down it's a it's an idea. It's a good idea. It's a good idea.
Like we need more of those more ideas.
Adam Curry: Yeah, should we take a little break play some music?
I'd
Dave Jones: love it. If Sam choose this
Adam Curry: to know Sam didn't do that. I'm sorry. I didn't ask
you. I'm sorry. At least I got your wallet. I got that part.
Right. Well this is it was fortuitous. As I'm like oh we
should play a song and before I even thought of asking Sam. I
went to the split kit and saw right at the top of brand new
track from the door falls. Well, you know me I have a weakness
for the door foals. They are part without the door folds
there probably would not be a burgeoning value for value music
value verse because they put out so much content they do their
own podcast into the value verse and I'd like everybody to boost
away for this song remember to tell the artists where you heard
it. Put it right there and your booster Graham telling you heard
on podcasting 2.0 It's their brand new one. And it is titled
Love is a war the door full so podcasting 2.0 I got myself
Unknown: in two years ago let me add you to you promise me I
promise. Is this fighting for You're seeking it was Manson
you set out to be the owner is this logo
is to the slogan was
soldiers in a dangerous
this is True
a gamma selfie
is good money
you promise me a promise
Adam Curry: is worth fighting for lovers award that door falls
on podcasting 2.0 Let's be honest. Who went to go to the
bathroom? Oh,
Dave Jones: I'm much lighter now. Oh, no.
Adam Curry: Turn the speakers on everybody. Yeah. All right.
Great song though. Yeah, I'd really opens up I'd like it.
They got some screaming guitars in their door fools, man, those
guys are great. We appreciate them in the valley verse.
Dave Jones: I want to talk briefly just run through this
real quick about the couple of issues I'm having to work on on
the API. The API, there's a just finished up a new endpoint for
transistor. And they're working on a 2.0 feature over there that
they're going to release. And I had promised John Buddha that I
would get him some an endpoint. And that's done now. So I've got
a couple of things to go back and fix in the API has been
neglected for a couple of months. And one of them is this
stupid bug. The it's, it's a bug with the max parameter in the
episodes in point. So if you tell it if you give it a max, so
the way it's supposed to work is you asked for episodes by
podcast ID. And you hand it a podcast ID and you say I want
the episodes and then say max equals 100. So you get back 100
episodes. Oh, this
Adam Curry: one? Yeah, we kept getting the wrong amount of
episodes back. Idea. So minor bug.
Dave Jones: It's a big bug. And so if it's like we, Steven B,
God bless him, figure it out, somehow had this. It became
really ridiculous to the point where he figured out if he puts
in the magic number 2750 for the max parameter. Did that gives
him what he wants?
Adam Curry: Oh, sounds like a math issue somewhere.
Dave Jones: This is now I know what the I know what the issue
is. And the issue is that if you there has to be some sort of
range, okay, because there's So many episodes. In the episodes
table, there's 120. Well, there's more than that now,
there's probably pushing 140 million records in the episodes
table. And if you're pulling in, if you're doing a table join it
at some point, if you don't range the request, with, with
some sort of like, low lower bound, MySQL really does not
like that, and it will slow, it will get slow. In the end, it's
believed me the tables are properly indexed, it's nothing
like that. This is not an index issue. This is just some sort of
issue where if you don't, if I don't put some sort of a lower
bound on the range, it just, it just gets slow. And we're
talking about it. So if I just say an unbounded, like an
unbounded range, and just say everything, and just show me the
episodes from this podcast ID on this table, but also join these
other seven tables, you'll end up with a request with an API
call that doesn't return for 12 seconds. And that's just
unacceptable. You can't I can't have that. That's an outrage.
It's, it's outrageous. And so it was not my fix for that has
always been to, to bound it with a time parameter. So I'll put on
there, like two years, just just some arbitrary number where it's
not having to worry, it's not having to do to look at the
entire index, the entire table of episodes table in order to
find this, these values. And that that speeds it up, that
speeds it up significantly. But the problem is, you end up with
these weird things. Because if you have a podcast that's been
going for 10 years, well then, and you ask for or some
arbitrary, there's a what this ends up being a bug with is this
dance between a time bound. And the actual number of episodes
you want, creates these bizarre results that don't make any
sense. But most of the time, it's okay, but some nonce non
inconsequential amount of time. It's bizarre and weird, and it's
stupid. So and I don't know what 2750 has to do with anything,
that's a new one. Okay, that's that I don't know what that is.
So I'm gonna have to refactor. The reason this has taken so
long to fix is I'm gonna have to go back and refactor. The low
level, this is a this is a function that goes back to
literally August of 2020 27.
Adam Curry: Like 50 is an angel number,
Dave Jones: an angel number, what does that mean?
Adam Curry: I never heard of an angel number. No. Angel numbers,
a potent symbol of spiritual awakening enlightenment.
Dave Jones: Well, it works. And I agree with this definition of
the 2750 is accurate. This goes back this I mean, this code was
written in August of 2020. Like in the run up before before we
even launched podcast index.org. So it was like, basically one
month of converting freedom controller into podcast index
API. And it's always been gross, it's always been an ugly piece
of code. So I'm going to have to go back and refactor that, but
let you know, this function is touched by widely all throughout
the API. So I cannot just change this thing lightly. It has to be
extensively tested before I replace it. So that's going to
be the issue. I'm gonna have to set up a dev environment
locally, import the full database. So this is going to
take some time to fix. But I but I am going to fix it. And it
does need to be fixed and it will be fixed. So you demand
that's yeah, you demand. Not? Not really. I mean, the stupid
bugs. It was It wasn't a bug. It was like one of those things
where, you know, I just needed a quick and dirty fix for it at
the moment. And the quick and dirty fixes are always the one
that the ones that last for five years.
Adam Curry: Yeah, gotcha. Yeah.
Dave Jones: So anyway, that'll that'll be fixed. The other the
other issue is we're getting a lot more traffic these days. And
I'm going to have to do some stuff to take some pressure off
the database itself. It's not really of is it can handle it.
It's just running hot. So real quick Another side effect of of
this of the podcast is index API being being built very fast, is
that there's too much stuff hitting the database. And I
don't want to go into what all that is. But there's a lot of
stuff that could be cached, that doesn't need to be being pulled
from the database every single request, right? So I'll be, I'm
going to be rolling a Redis instance, actually, I probably
won't do Redis, I'm probably just going to write something
custom. And, and load that in in memory, it just seems it just
needs to be a simple key value store. Just a hash table lookup.
And I've already got that for the GU ID for the GU ID lookup
code. So I'm just going to take that rust code and pull it over
and repurpose it for this for this tool. And then it can run
on a $5 Linode. And in where it'll, it'll take a lot of
pressure off the database. So that's another thing that's
going to be has a lot of API work in the next couple months.
Adam Curry: Maybe, Sam, instead of talking specifically about
activity streams, you've also been looking at podcast index
social, where does it seem to you that people are most excited
about into? Because obviously we need to integrate? Yep. Activity
pub in order to do the streams? Have? Do you have a feel on what
people are looking at? Is it comments is it follows is
anything that you've seen anyone look at specifically?
Sam Sethi: I don't think Well, I think all the excitement is
around what Dave and Steve did with with the bridge. I think
that's a great sort of intro for everybody to go, Oh, I didn't
realize you could do this. So I think I described it on pot
newsweeklies saying that the metaphor we all need to get our
heads around is that activity Pub is an inbox outbox, back end
messaging system more than a social network. And what we're
trying to do, or at least I think we're trying to do is get
a signal out of the apps into the social networks that we have
or master. But What's lovely about the social interact tag is
not limited by activity pub, actually, we could do it to
LinkedIn, Twitter, we could do it to anywhere, right. It's just
I think the best place to start is with activity pub. And I
think what Dave's doing is allowing people to follow the
verb. So that's the the activity stream, verb follow. And then
when they do that, Dave's outbox gets a notification that some
episodes been updated. And he then relays that message to the
person's inbox to say, yep, that podcast has been updated. There
you go. metaphor is useful.
Dave Jones: So, Sam, how, how, at a low level how and
integrated with activity Pub is true fans if I if I sent you a
custom action or verb like, would you? Is that something you
could accept?
Sam Sethi: We don't like your element yet, Dave. So we don't
know we're building it. But we don't have it. Do we have the
outbox element. So we have every profile, we have a set of
activity verbs. And what I want to do is publish those so that
we can all agree on them. But that, that would be like Dave,
played pod news weekly, and then the attributes to that we can
add it as an extension, such as the amount of value you actually
gave, or the percentage of time you completed. So time listened
percent completed and value paid are three metrics I want to add.
And that could then be shared from your account. And again,
whichever app eventually to your activity pub client, and then
anyone who follows you on that activity pub client is then
going oh, wow, Dave, I didn't know that. Okay, you've boosted
Oh, I must go and see what that episode is about, or whatever it
may be. Now, the inbox element is this social interact tag. So
for example, if you if Adam or you have given a activity pub
endpoint as your social interact tag, and we all then are placing
our comments within there. Now, if it's come from fountain or
pod verse into that same activity pub note, and I've got
one coming out from true fans, I need to listen to the other apps
in that social interact tag and then bring that into the user's
inbox. The inbox happens to be the episode this time, so it's
not an individual. And so that's how you can aggregate now that
could be the same for ratings. But we can extend that you know,
Adam follows a podcast in Fountain new follow podcasts in
podcast, we should still be able to know that within truth and
therefore, you don't have to come and redo that follow when
you come into our app as well. Lots of things we can do. I
think step one right now is I think, my Okay, let me step
back. I think all of us as apps, podcasting, tutor apps have to
become eventually full activity pub clients might now have to be
part of the Fetty verse. I think Adam mentioned that a couple of
weeks back when he said, you know, we probably need to have
it in true fans case, you know, use that at true fans.fm as a
activity pub client, just, I am Sam Sethi at podcast index dot
social. So I think that's where we have to go again, I'm still
treading lightly. So we've got an outbox element that all
works. We know that works. We have tested internally pushing
that out to someone's inbox in their activity pub client.
Great. And with a link back into true fans, so that, you know, if
it's an episode you've played, and you want to go and see who
else has done that, the inbox elements, the second part will
work on which is listening to the social interact tag and for
verbs. So, again, it's baby steps, but I think that's the
way we're going.
Dave Jones: So if you so in your world, in the true fans world,
you really have multiple actors. You have the you have the user
and the podcast episode. Okay, and then you have sort of do I
have an out in my much I'm logged into true fans right now.
Do I have an outbox?
Sam Sethi: Yes. So if you go to your profile on the you click on
the activity tab.
Dave Jones: Okay. Yes, yeah.
Sam Sethi: That is your outbox. Okay. So that's all the
activities you've done. Within true fans, whether you've played
suggested followed, boosted, whatever you've done, you can
see all the verbs in the drop down. There's a list of all the
verbs there. So
Dave Jones: is it simply an outbox, or is it also an active
Push? Push?
Sam Sethi: No, we haven't done the push, pull is going to come.
Okay. Okay.
Dave Jones: So that so in the future, okay, in the future, I
could follow myself on true fans from a mastodon account. And
then or from another activity pub client, and then I can get
notifications of of my outbox activity as pushes to the shared
inbox, right? That's fine.
Sam Sethi: And if I go to your user settings and scroll down to
privacy, you'll see that we've already said, hide all my
activity, or just make my these verbs public. Right. That was
the next step we worked on the step after is what you're asking
is, Can I now publish those automatically? Or when we have
no idea how we're going to do it? Totally? Can I publish those
activities to my activity pub inbox? And the answer is yes.
And that's what we're going to work on. You'll see that next
week, I'll send you both think that's why because I would
Dave Jones: love I would love to add, you know, somehow aggregate
this because the thing that we don't have, in every, every
directory is going to have the same issue. We we may, you know,
people may act, the other directories of podcast
directories may act like they have some top secret information
in a way that nobody else does. But that's not true. We don't we
have the same problem that everybody else does is we don't
have first party data. So we don't know what we don't know
how many. How many people follow a podcast, we don't know how
many people we don't know, download numbers, we don't know,
we don't know anything. So we really are guessing at
popularity of things. To make some intelligent decisions.
We're guessing at it based on just sort of like these weird
inferences about how many requests to the API, we're
getting in that kind of thing. But if I could, if I had a way
to subscribe to, you know, a hose of of the of it activity
pub information coming through about plays and that kind of
thing. Man, that would be valuable.
Adam Curry: Yeah, for a lot of people.
Sam Sethi: Yeah. So the way that we've done it is if you are a
creative, the owner of the podcast, right, or a music
artist, you go into your creators admin dashboard, and we
will show you all the activity streams from the people who are
fans of your music or fans of your podcast. And that's an
aggregated activity stream, you can drill down to that's the
data you want, which is per podcast, you don't want the
individual data, per se. You might do but you would then have
to do the aggregation yourself, right? Whereas what we're giving
the creators is that aggregated view of their podcasts or music
app or book eventually, and that's the data that's valuable
because then it tells them how long did Dave listen to the
show? What how much did he pay wind Did he drop off? And then,
you know, we've got concepts of leaderboards and gamification.
And the reason we have that is because then you want to know
who's the superfan who's listened to his show the most,
who's paid the most, or all these different aspects then
come out, but we can't build those elements until we've done
the basic building blocks, which is what we're still working on.
Dave Jones: That enables the followers. You know, the, the
followers in endpoint activity pub, like in a traditional
activity pub in point has an inbox and outbox featured? I
think one of the and one of them, I think, is called
followers. So you can put probe that as well, I mean, like that,
that opens up a whole lot of stuff. That is, that is super
valuable. And I think that like, it also helps to cross pollinate
between podcast apps completely in a way that's like a it's just
not happening right now. And it doesn't have to it's not an it's
not a competition. Issue. Really. I mean, I think it
really is a rising tide lifts all boats scenario, the more
these apps, you know, if I'm doing something in true fans,
and then found in our pod verse shows that activity, I don't see
that any different because I'm hopping back and forth between
apps. I don't see that any different as I would cross out
comments. Dice is just saying Chad
Sam Sethi: F posted just now on to Mastodon that somehow Oscar's
showing all of the boosts from true fans and from other apps
coming into fountain tonight. Right? So I assume you're
listening to any any. I'm guessing. He's listening on the
OB dashboard, for example, for any payments, and then he's
aggregating it on to the episode for tonight show. So again, that
sounds really cool. But I think we can do it. Instead of
scraping all the dashboards and doing all that stuff. I think we
can do it, as you described Dave, with an open starts, where
we all have a set of agreed verbs. And then when we publish
those verbs, and those verbs can be listened to. It is like a
reverse pumping. I don't think that's the right word. But it's
apps, other apps listening to other apps for signals of
activity from those apps, and then aggregating them around an
episode or a podcast or a user, whichever the object is, or the
person actor.
Adam Curry: I'm very excited by this. I really am excited.
Dave Jones: Yeah, this, this is a must step aside
Adam Curry: into your excitement. If I want to get any
of your excitement on me. Yes.
Dave Jones: I'm in I'm in sync mode.
Adam Curry: I know. I know, you. I know you, honey, I know how
you think.
Dave Jones: Yeah, this is a, this is a big deal. Because if
you have Yeah, this is the share. This is the sharing of
this is the sharing of data across apps. And this is hard.
You know, we talked about this a little bit, Alex jumped in. And
we're kind of hashing some of this out about pod ping and how
some of these activities go across the wire. And piping
insignia specifically, I mean, these are things that they're
not easy. But, but they, I don't want to shy away from them, just
because they're not easy. We're, you know, we're, we're gonna
think about them. And if we can start simple, then maybe, maybe
a better solution presents itself down the line. If you
start, you know, we start more simply by something like, the
activities that you define them into fans play, you know, Dave
became a fan of, you know, or like a follow or a day followed
this podcast, Dave boosted this podcast. And like you said, it's
already been, it's already been distributed, we can already see
the boosts coming out of fountain this is not, this is
not anything that's, that's problematic. Now,
Sam Sethi: it's just adding structured data to it. So the
way I think about it is the activity stream is a user
generated RSS feed of what they've done, right? And that
activity stream, then becomes something that they can share.
Now, I said it wrongly a couple of months ago when I said, Oh,
why wouldn't the podcast index aggregate the activity stream
centrally? That was totally wrong? Because actually a
decentralized system like activity, pub doesn't need a
central database, or what I was trying to think of at the time
was, could I could all the apps send it like the host send you
the RSS and you aggregate it in the podcast index, and then
poorer and pushes it down? And I was thinking that way, and I'm
wrong. But that's how I was thinking. All the apps actually
would send user generated feeds up to the podcast index, and
then other app We'd listen to a central repository. But actually
with activity pub being decentralized and relayed, we
don't have to do it that way. So yeah, yeah, that was how I was
thinking originally.
Dave Jones: And I'm, I'm overdue for a, for a blog post about
this so that I can just give app developers a little bit of a
primer on how on how the basic endpoint structures work,
because it's really, activity Pub is really not that hard.
It's pretty simple. And I think a lot of people have been scared
of it, because it seems like because it's, it's not well
documented. So I do need to just write something about this so
that people see how there's, you can get activity pub servers out
there, that you can find them on GitHub, that are like that are
like 1500 lines of PHP. It's It's like nothing man there is
so simplistic, because really, all it is, is just it's a dot
well known endpoint, which can be static even. And then like,
then then like three URLs, like three endpoints. It's really not
complicated. So I think any app can put this in there.
Sam Sethi: To John Spurlock school, something he's working
on, or has worked on called mini pub, which takes the weight of a
full blown mastodons server, and just does the reeling element of
it. Now, John and I spoke and I don't know if this is going to
come back to life. And that's up to John, but he has something
available there that could work as a relay. Because actually, if
all the apps become full blown activity pub clients, then all
you're using is the activity pub protocol. Mastodon doesn't
become part of the conversation is just happens to be another
endpoint for publishing activity, but it doesn't have to
be specifically the mastodon API that we use, it will be the
activity pub protocol use so
Dave Jones: you know, that's good for the and that's good for
activity pub for the whole ecosystem, because it takes the
you know, it blunts this monopolistic dominance that
Mastodon has ended up with.
Adam Curry: Exactly, shall we? Thanks. Some people were two
hours seven minutes at this point. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah. And
And as an aside, we are at block height 33 blocks left five hours
30 minutes and 35 seconds until the habit Oh,
Dave Jones: how many how long until the heavens five hours?
Five hours. Okay. So we will see we need to need to keep the show
going for until seven till eight o'clock tonight.
Adam Curry: We can have breakfast with Sam.
Dave Jones: That's the title of the show. Breakfast was Sam. Oh,
Adam Curry: goodness gracious Goodman. Well, how about I do
the booths that have been coming in? Yes, I start that off. We
are value for value of course. So the whole project everything
Dave and I do here is value for value. Keeps everything running.
We appreciate all of the all of the support we've been
receiving. Doesn't matter how much how little but of course,
outside of pay pals and onchange no one ever does. We are rarely
ever does. We really want you to get a modern podcast app and
boost us so we have a row of ducks 2222 from Jason from
podcast guru. And he says thanks Sam for increasing my backlog.
Dave Jones: Sorry. Very nice. That's that's Sam's middle name
backlog.
Adam Curry: Mike Dell with a row of ducks. 2022 no censorship
brand safety RSS is podcasting. Freedom. That's right. Gene
Everett says boost with 3333 chatter for the row of ducks AI
articles read by AI voices. Oh brother. Yes, right. So the dead
internet. Salty crayon. He says boosting from the secret
squirrel office through true fans boost with 333 and another
row of sticks or riches sack of Richards from salty crayon
Flashback Friday in the boardroom lighters big hair and
bandanas rockin go podcasting? Yes, indeed. Chat F was another
row of ducks. Phoebe hates ads. She was barking a lot during
that 1652 From let's see fountain user. Oh, no, that's
that's a different podcast. I'm sorry. That makes you that? Mere
Mortals podcast. Here we go row. Satchel of Richard's felt wrong
boosting not using true fans. It's not my favorite app to use
on a desktop. And if you guys celebrating the halving in some
way, yes, we're gonna keep on the air. Just heard? Yeah. Kyron
1000 SATs from fountain user 21398871. Change it. Sam in the
house is right. He podcasts over the 1000 SATs preach podcasting
is an RSS feed with an enclosure. And there Sir Brian
of London down there in Tel Aviv is in Tel Aviv, isn't he? Aggies
Intellivue chug Samish happy Passover to all Oh yeah, that's
right. Happy Passover. Think we eat? What is it? Apple with
honey on Passover. I can't remember.
Dave Jones: The sheep hoof Yeah, there
Adam Curry: you go blow the horn. Mini yes striper boosts
777 Just listening first time listening live couldn't get
found to work live before and he's boosting from phantom so
you got it to work Mike Dell with popcorn ready? He says 1701
Chat F with another row of ducks. I TBR in the boardroom to
you. Blitz see we have anything else that came in. I have one
before the delimiter I'm not sure but all I'll do this one
just in case you didn't get a day. 5000 SATs from Linkin Park
rules. Hey, curry in the pod sage. Adam, I've noticed those
eye catching gifs recently in your no agenda chapters. Yes.
That is the work of the Bruce Wayne of podcasting. 2.0 Dred
Scott, I'm glad you've come to the dark side. Check out the
latest episode of ungovernable misfits to see our GIF game gifs
in Chapter an episode art or the real video podcast, pew pew.
Alright, Dave, would you have dragged
Dave Jones: her? Just we're okay in Chapter art and consequently
went berserk?
Adam Curry: Of course he did. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Oh, Steven crater, the developer of podcast AP the
hottest thing on the net. Sliced bread. Yes. since sliced bread.
Gave us $100 Brother.
Adam Curry: Wow, that does I need a wise my thing working
here. There was a podcast
Unknown: shot called 20 is blades on the hem Paula.
Dave Jones: I blame the power outage for the AP bridge. He
says podcast ap.com brought some extra pressure to the bridge
server. It did but we're holding up good. Good. I've got we're
still getting periodic reports of follows not completing.
There's like a three way handshake that happens when you
do a follow and on an activity pub where it has to you request
to follow then it verifies and then it completes sends an
invoice
Adam Curry: checks the house.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. So then sometimes that thing is getting
interrupted and I don't know exactly why but I've got I'm
going to sign up for an account. There's some there's a AP client
called Sharky is evidently I think it's a fork of miski and
it's evidently that's got a problem. So we've had a couple
of days we've ironed most of them out but that one seems
problematic. I don't know why but you are going to fix it.
Thank you Steve. Appreciate that brother. See, we've got almost
plays out here it is. Oh $300 from the boys and girls a
blueberry podcast. Oh
Unknown: boy. 20 is Blaze own. I am Paula Wow. Thank
Adam Curry: you so much note,
Dave Jones: I had a note Hey Gents, the team here at Hey Jen.
Hey, Jan's blueberry. Podcasting has our head down working on
products to reduce overall costs for podcasters. By replacing
third party services, they're paying big bucks. That is
causing them to question while they are why they are
podcasting. Yes, you get that but that bill for big bucks. You
ask yourself why?
Adam Curry: Why am I podcasting? Why am I doing this again? Yeah.
Thank
Dave Jones: you. Very nice. Thank you. Appreciate that. That
helps a lot Buzzsprout that they also help a lot $1,000
Unknown: My 20 is blades only Ambala has it been a month since
their last $1,000 donation?
Dave Jones: We're old. That's the problem. We're old. What do
you mean going by incredibly fast.
Adam Curry: Really? Really? It's been a month? Yes. Wow. Yes,
dude, thank you so much Buzzsprout you're really keeping
this rollin to its appreciate Yeah,
Dave Jones: they never put a note in but we we
Adam Curry: know we know we know there's love dripping off it
everywhere is just
Dave Jones: dripping it there's we're also a seen a big decrease
in the amount of spam feeds coming from Buzzsprout. And I
think they have been talking to Tom I think he's doing some good
blocking now on IP at the IP level. And so I'm keeping an eye
on that but they're they're trying to get things under
control. Appreciate you guys. Listen, I'm having trouble. Oh,
you're here this up Beats Music podcast $4.20 Thank you
afternoon board. room just a pre havening donation before
tomorrow, or tonight by the time of which, by the time of this,
which this sounds like a rebel by the time of this, which is
only 49 blocks away according to Clark moody dashboard, Dave,
here's some value for the effort to fix the by medium endpoint.
According to Steven B. Max equals 3000 broke it. So go
Adam Curry: sorry, when you
Dave Jones: 750 Is your
Adam Curry: 50 your angel
Dave Jones: number, remember? Yes. And we got a new
subscriptions subscriber monthly subscribers, silicone florist
and dollars a month. Thank you. So call florist, you
Adam Curry: silicone florist.
Dave Jones: We get some boosts. Let's see if I can pull up the
the booster dashboard. Here's the matting the booster Monica
Jean been 1024 killer boost. The cast Matic he says if a podcast
app has activity pub client functionality under the hood,
and pod cat and pod ping is bridged to activity pub, then
even serverless apps like cast emetic could receive and benefit
from pod pings. Yes, yes. But you still need a notification
mechanism. And that's what we're trying to hash out. Alex was
hashing out the some of that stuff on the on the social last
week, you still need some sort of really a push notification.
Because the app in my own modern phones, if they're native apps.
Now true fans wouldn't have this problem I met Well, I guess
that's not serverless. So but on a native app, you can't be
guaranteed to be always running in the background. So you would
have to have some sort, the only way to get timely notifications
is through some sort of push. And each platform grows. But
each platform has its own way of doing things and get unified
push Apple, Firebase, it's just it's, it's a lot. So one of
these days. We'll get there. We'll get there. Mike Dell, from
over blueberry 1701 That's a Captain Picard boost. You found
a nice as shown off boosts.
Adam Curry: Always fun. We're gonna shoot. We're gonna boost
Dave Jones: gene bein again. 1337 elite boost, he says Dave,
instead of writing an audio book app, it'd be awesome if you
expanded the audio book shelf app. No idea if that's
practical, but it'd be awesome.
Adam Curry: Must when you open an app I think it's open source.
Dave Jones: Oh, is it no no, I didn't know that.
Adam Curry: I believe so.
Dave Jones: That's cool. All right. Yeah, that's okay. I
looked at it.
Adam Curry: I think you can do that Sunday night between 11 and
one you still have some time leftover on your calendar. Yeah
Dave Jones: squeezed in between dinner and dessert. Mike Dale
1701 He comes in again he says grow your show lame and create
creations and desert buddy Andy over there. 3000 says crook
asthmatic. He says he's a grower and to show thank you all for
you. This is Andy Lamma creations. 3000 says he says
thank you all for all you guys do. Thanks to Adam. I have been
working on my V for V ask on my podcast Answers podcast and
thanks today for well, just being Dave and doing all the
tech work. He does your podcast
Adam Curry: you go go podcast.
Dave Jones: Thank you, Andy. Up in 1984. Three found a nice to
see 4000 says he says back in September, I wrote a blog post
in response to a discussion Chris Fisher over at Jupiter
broadcasting had about advertising in the podcast
space. It's not exactly what you were talking about. But maybe
some ideas can be pulled from it and refined to fit in with your
idea. Here's the address for the post https colon slash slash opp
y 1980 four.com/sets. For ads.
Adam Curry: I read that I read that good article.
Dave Jones: I've not read it because I just saw this sets for
cash. Bill Prague, he's a hive guy through fountain 2000 SAS.
He says protocol that you use for pod paying as optional for
decentralized communities everyone can access. It also has
accounts that everyone that everyone can access. What you
were talking about apps is exactly what it is. What is
happening with apps on the protocol. I use one when I want
this is either autocorrect
Adam Curry: No, it's Brian. Brian bill is drying of London
writing under a pseudonym. Okay, Bill, Bill, yeah, Bill.
Dave Jones: I use one when I want to post something. Other
one for comments because as easy reply system, one that's better
for notifications, but all of them have access to the data and
are connected. Clearly a hive endorsement they're 20 to 20 Do
road ducks from car and it's no more just mere mortals podcast
they found he says apologies I've been MIA no you don't have
to apologize car and I'm trying to spend as much time as
possible learning Portuguese while whilst in Brazil. Dave
must have been a civil engineer in a previous life with the
amount of bridging he's doing.
Adam Curry: You can work in Baltimore anytime.
Dave Jones: Todd Cochran big T 50,000. Says the fountain been
listening but have been busier than a one legged man and ask
kicking contest. Sometimes you just got to put your head down
and work headed to pod fest Asia shortly to spread the Gospel.
Happy podcasting.
Adam Curry: That's right. That's right. Have a good trip, man.
Dave Jones: Thank you brother to see. Yes. And I do see the
Linkin Park rules. I get that one. So I'm going to jump over
here. delimiter limiter, calm straight blogger 24,000 SATs
through fountain he says Daddy Phillip Bitcoiners Adam and
Dave. Happy Bitcoin having to you. I would also like to
recommend the complex candour podcast. You're welcome to
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CSB.
Adam Curry: Yo brother thank you always promoting other podcasts
lovely.
Dave Jones: We got some monthlies. We got yarn,
Rosenstein $1 Derek J. Vickery, the best name and podcasting.
2.0 $21. Paul Salzman. $22.22 Thank you Paul. Damon Cassie,
Jack $15 Thank you, Damon. Jeremy. gerdts $5 New Media
Productions that's Todd and Rob without Rob's permission $30
Wow, Michael Hall $5.50 And Satan's low you're down under
$5.
Adam Curry: Thank you. So thank you all so much. It's value for
value go to podcasts. index.org. Down at the bottom you'll see
two red donate buttons one for your entre on chain coins. Tally
coin, check. We had nothing. The other one for your Fiat fund
coupons at through PayPal and of course, modern podcast apps.com
In order to send us boosts that work. Well. We love reading your
notes. I want to thank all of the developers. We have a lot of
developers many behind the scenes who don't necessarily get
as much exposure Thank you Alex gates, Sir Brian of London. I
also want to thank Oscar for doing a great job on what is it?
Peter McCormick show? What happened was it what happened
with Bitcoin now what is it called? WhatsApp was Bitcoin
this No it's
Sam Sethi: right now and what happened with Bitcoin?
Adam Curry: But he has a soccer club. He has real Bedford Oh,
Dave Jones: oh, yeah. Yeah.
Adam Curry: The Oscar was on the show did a great he actually
said I want you to critique my appearance. And be honest. I
don't know if he's recovered. But he did a really he did a
really good job, and really appreciate what you do Oscar.
Thank you also to develop Remo from true fans who I don't even
know if he has time to listen to podcast but his work is also
appreciated. And of course, our guest today in the boardroom Sam
Sethi. Sam, thank you so much. You're You're really a guiding
light. I love that you're stepping forward to lead the
PSP. Thank you for being completely reckless and crazy.
We appreciate you for that. We really do. I mean, it's you know
sometimes Dave and I'll get Did you can see that email from Sam.
We're like, Yeah, do you understand now no idea what he's
talking about. So much, so much. But, but now this this is
exactly what we need. When we are the Skunk Works. We are
reckless. We do run with scissors and you're a fine
example of it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for
staying up late for being with us today.
Sam Sethi: I'm going to pop off this. I'm not drinking. I'm
going to the pub. Yeah. Look at other people,
Adam Curry: observing people being drunk. Okay, there you go.
Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, have yourself a great weekend and
happy happenings.
Sam Sethi: Thank you for inviting me guys. I loved it.
Adam Curry: Of course we'd love to have you back. Thank you very
much boardroom you guys. Were great today. Dave brothers.
Thank you so much. What are you laughing?
Dave Jones: Eric PPC is dedicated the activity pub.
Whoa. All right. I'm back right under the wire. Beautiful.
Adam Curry: All right, Dave. I'll talk to next week brother
have a great vacation. Thank you so much for being with us here
in the boardroom. We look forward to doing it next Friday,
everything and more right here on podcasting 2.0
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