Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for May 17 2024, episode 180 serial
churn. Hello, everybody. It's Friday once again, time for the
official, the one and only board meaning of podcasting. 10.0.
Everybody, everything it all gets discussed right here.
That's right. We don't talk behind your back. We are the
only boardroom that doesn't have a booth at a podcast conference.
If you want to know what's happened in podcasting, it's all
here. I'm Adam curry in the heart of the Texas Hill Country
and in Alabama, the man who brings his programmatic Ceman to
your vast say a lot of my friend on the other end, the one and
only Mr. De Jones.
Dave Jones: says I have to tell you to rip it twice. Does that
mean I rip you a new one? Do
Adam Curry: you really mean we're in quite the mood today,
Dave? Oh, yeah, we're in a good mood. So we started off before
we started the show, which by the way, we're live and lit
every single Friday afternoon. You can listen to us live and a
modern podcast app. podcast apps.com. Anyway, we're like I
got a rant. I gotta read I got a rant. But I got something to say
I ran out because Dave was late. He was late. And before we even
start that I want to say there will be no board meeting next
week. I will not be in town and will not be available to record.
Warren I'm so sorry. Yes, I'm going to Nashville.
Dave Jones: Oh, well that's not bad. For the
Adam Curry: for the K love the K love awards.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, this is yes. This is the is the big the
big God the God music extravaganza.
Adam Curry: Big God music extravaganza again Alright, so
what why were you late? What's your Ran brother? What's going
on? What's happening? How can I help?
Dave Jones: I've spoken many times in the past about the I'm
sorry, I'm trying to put down my salami and cheese.
Adam Curry: I wondered what I smelled. But now I know. Cheese
Dave Jones: is my bread breath. Yeah, so I've spoken many times
in the past about the about my my hatred of USB C docking
stations.
Adam Curry: Yeah, so yes, I can. Yes. And I think I've said don't
be a hater. But you have not taken this advice clearly.
Dave Jones: Okay, so I want to
Adam Curry: only read up the hatred is I want to re up the
hatred now.
Dave Jones: Yes. So this is this is a after a couple of hours of
of troubleshooting. The USBC dock. We come up with this
lovely support bulletin from Lenovo. Oh,
Adam Curry: and this was a at the day job. This was a real
support ticket. uptaking
Dave Jones: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And this, these these things are
just, they're just a nightmare. Everybody you talk to these
things have a limited lifespan. They're crap. Ever since they
went from old docking stations you had they had a custom
connector every every, every big one. Really. It was like it was
like
Adam Curry: 70 penises because they knew scuzzy. scuzzy
connector scuzzy.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Frozen guard, you know, frozen garden hose
type, right? Yes. Goes all proprietary. Everybody had their
own dealio Yeah, but you know what they were working every
single time worked. Yeah, every time USBC I have a document that
is like 20 pages. That shows how all of the routing internally
happens. Because what you see on the end of like when you plug in
a USB C docking station, what you see on the on the end is
just a USBC connector, right? But there is so much going on
inside of that thing.
Adam Curry: And ask the question, is this not
essentially like a USB dongle that has no expansion ports?
Isn't that kind of what this is? This
Dave Jones: is no that's it and this is the problem. USB C
docking stations modern USB C docking stations are since our
Thunderbolt. Oh, they are thunder either Thunderbolt three
or Thunderbolt four Oh, system boards. So these docking
stations are a synth are like they have their firmware in
them. They run they run software they are they are almost like a
small computer unto themselves. Oh, it's
Adam Curry: like my LED lights. Yes. Yeah. It also buzzes on
your microphone.
Dave Jones: So there are things that can happen with with these.
Where, where nothing you do on the computer For itself
actually, we'll fix it. You have to reboot the doc because the
doc is acting, it's acting.
Adam Curry: Acting Up. Yeah. Yes.
Dave Jones: So the the what you see at the end of the is the
USBC cord that plugs into your computer. But what's happening
on the inside of that thing is your route you're actually
routing, your routing, USB A USB, excuse me USB one, two and
three, right, HDMI, HDMI DisplayPort potentially, if it's
supported VGA
Adam Curry: video s video tell me RGB RGB s video audio
Dave Jones: networks, gold and Ethernet Ethernet and and and
Thunderbolt potentially three and four Thunderbolt
Adam Curry: Can you plug in your your Nintendo data glove?
Dave Jones: In the Lord little robot, Nintendo robot big. So
you're routing all of this stuff over over, you know, the small
connections, number of pins. The amount of things that can go
wrong with this are limitless. The so they usually always show
up with video first. So like in a in a financial services
environment. Three monitors is like standard standard standard.
Yeah, standard minimum some sometimes four, sometimes five.
You see big like trading houses and stuff they may have 10 Yeah,
on a single machine. So the ability to do more than two
monitors three four monitors is just standard USBC based docking
stations Thunderbolt docking stations, I struggle with this
so bad. Yeah, they they just can't handle it. You because
there's you have different flavors of DisplayPort over USBC
you have passive and active in all of these the end depending
on which configurations if you plug it in, if you have one
HDMI, one display port and one USB C to display port that may
trigger them to one of them to go into a different mode. It's
mind boggling, but then I run across this wonderful support
document. After troubleshooting for a couple of hours. Lenovo
critical Intel Thunderbolt software and firmware updates
symptom sim systems may experience any of the following
symptoms you're ready. Yes, USB C port not working Intel
Thunderbolt controller not visible in the OS device manager
USB C or Thunderbolt docking station is not visible or having
connectivity problems. HDMI output not available system
battery not charging with the USB C power adapter connected to
the USB C port. Until Thunderbolt pop up error message
Intel Thunderbolt Safe Mode error message BIOS Thunderbolt
communication error or hang during post that and here's the
kit here's the kicker, the white is more these symptoms may occur
after six to 12 months of usage. What
Adam Curry: are there moving parts that were or what was
happening?
Dave Jones: Hey, you tell me what does that even mean? That
sounds
Adam Curry: like it's crazy. That sounds like well you know
that that monitor may have a driver update or something else
may change sounds like they're building in some wiggle room for
things changing external to the device.
Dave Jones: What could possibly be inside of these things that
would that would begin to trigger problems 12 months in
the future.
Adam Curry: Oh, I know that Venezuelan immigrants
Dave Jones: each Thunderbolt doc has a has a Venezuelan inside of
it, I
Adam Curry: guess. Wow. Okay, I I feel your pain brother. I feel
your pain. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Now multiply this across hundreds of users in this
you know, so it's
Adam Curry: primarily but it's primarily the multi monitor
users that are experiencing issues.
Dave Jones: What happens is the they seem to work fine. This is
like being going to industry conferences and this kind of
thing that this has turned into the USBC dock podcast. But going
to like industry conferences and talking to my peers. This is
universal. It's not it's not anything with one specific
vendor. Like evidently the Dell USB the Thunderbolt docks are so
bad that like you just go ahead and budgets 12 to 18 months and
they're gonna die. Like you just build that in they they they
swap them out like crazy. So this is my Can we please go back
to the old days standard
Adam Curry: yuck and you know that's not going to happen and
the fact that it's Thunderbolt is kind of trippy is not what I
thought that wasn't Apple only Dang, but I guess it's the
standard. And
Dave Jones: these dogs the old school dogs used to cost $200
Oh, these these Thunderbolt four dogs? They're $400.03 foot a
three foot Thunderbolt four cable is $75 Wow,
Adam Curry: what a gyp
Dave Jones: it's outrageous and we're going to we're going to so
tell me we're gonna have driving cars we can't we can't even get
three monitors to work over USB see
Adam Curry: self driving cars? Yes.
Dave Jones: Well self driving cars
Adam Curry: Well that brings me to your overview of the most
recent presentation by Google at their i o event. To explain the
future of the company. Yeah,
Unknown: I've ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai, ai ai ai ai
ai ai ai, I found the AI really useful. ai ai ai ai ai, ai ai ai
ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai
ai ai, ai, ai, ai ai, ai students ai ai vertex AI
and that's the father of generative
Adam Curry: AI toolkit. Generative, generative,
generative ai, ai ai ai, there it is. Now you know what they're
up to?
Dave Jones: Like the one guy that didn't generate the AI? Is
that a pretend an Indian or pretending?
Adam Curry: No, that's Oh, yes. I heard that part of the podcast
as well. The pretending No, no, that's a real a real Indian.
Yeah, but before that, I need my randlett All right, go. This
morning at eight o'clock. My phone goes like literally 759
I'm about to take the dog out for a walk. I'm gonna NSC. It's
a 512 number. So it's an Austin number. I'm like, no, no, you're
too early. So I just send it to voicemail. Come back in,
actually have a call scheduled at nine and say, oh, yeah, let
me check this voicemail. voicemail from Deputy Sheriff
Jack Barnes Travis County concerning an urgent legal
matter calling back at this number. And I'll be waiting for
your call.
Dave Jones: Oh, no.
Adam Curry: I'm like, Okay, I call back I get him on the
phone. Now, it's clearly Sheriff's Office, just from the
the sound of it. And that's legit. And then well, I mean,
I'm looking at a 512 number then as a whole, I'm gonna put you on
with my lieutenant. So Lieutenant be Neil comes on
badge number 03156. There are two there's a warrant out for my
arrest, because I have failed to appear as a grand jury expert
witness. And I apparently signed on April 15. I signed the
subpoena that came to my door, and he has the numbers and
everything. And, and he says, you know, basically you can be
arrested? Yeah. Because you know, there's a warrant out
because you have ignored the subpoena. And you've ignored the
you're in contempt of court. And, and then a sudden, you
know, we get disconnected. So he calls back. And then he
continues. And they said now, so there's two ways you can handle
this. There's the criminal procedure or the civil
procedure. I mean, this goes on, I'm like, holy crap. And my
heart is pounding. I'm like, what? There's
Dave Jones: the you can there's an easy way and a hard way we
can do this is what he's Yes,
Adam Curry: exactly. And it's like, I'm like, well, I should
probably call my lawyer. No, no, we have a maintain contact
order, which means we have to stay in contact with you as you
drive down to the sheriff's office. So we can process this.
And I'm likely, and so this is going on now. 10 minutes. I'm
like, holy moly. I'm racking my brain. I can't figure this out.
And then he says, so what we need you to do is you need to go
to this kiosk, and then you're going to pay a bond and then
you'll have a bar code and then you bring that data say Oh, hold
on a second. You got me. You got me. I said I'm calling my
lawyer. No, you can't have Oh, okay. It was a scam. 15 minutes,
they had police radio in the background. And it was
sophisticated. They had my address my name, of course, my
phone number. It was sophisticated. Wow. I'm not
wanting to fall for something. But along the way, there are a
couple of things that started to bother me a little bit, but I
was just so blown. I mean, this actually, I've been asked to be
a possible character witness for a friend in Dallas next week.
was like some bullcrap thing, but you know, so I've actually
I've had special agent show up at my door from the inn.
Inspector General's office and I said, I'm not talking to you go
away, you know, because, you know, they're just harassing. So
that was kind of the back of my mind. I'm like, holy crap, what
are they doing to me? Is this a deep state? Finally, finally
they got me. They found Oh, wait, I have that somewhere.
Where is that?
Dave Jones: Like, so that were they using? Were they using
generated voices or something? Or no,
Adam Curry: no, no, no, no, it was it was actual it was actual
let me see is this it
there you go.
Dave Jones: I mean, that was for real legit like that. So so this
were these were people that had like a believable Texas very
Adam Curry: believable, very believable. The they had the
police radio in the background. It was totally I was in it. I
was like, oh, man, I'm screwed.
Dave Jones: Up. You just knew that you were gonna have to go
buy $5,000 of iTunes gift card when
Adam Curry: it was when it was when you have to go to a kiosk.
Wait a minute, what is the US business? No, no, no, no, no.
I'm calling my lawyer. No, you can't. You. You have to what was
it? You must comply. I'm like, I comply this. But, but hey, 12 to
15 minutes. They really have me Dave. They really really have
me. That's kind of scary. It's social engineering. You know,
it's, it was well done. They had a script and everything. This is
Dave Jones: so I was in on a security. Like a webinar. Not
too long a webinar. Yes. Yes. It was great. And this guy's good.
He does. He's a local guy. Gary Warners has named me from UAB, a
University of Alabama in Birmingham. And he's, he's
really good. He's been in the in the cybersecurity game forever.
And wait, before it was even a thing really. And he he made a
statement in this last, like the annual update from last I think
it was in December. And he said, If you know he said it, is it if
you know, in your family or out or friends with or neighbors
with anybody who's older. I mean, I mean, like, like any
anybody who's let's just say, careful, be careful, careful,
careful. Identify generation, baby. They said baby boomer or
older. You're not baby your genetics.
Adam Curry: You know, there's a big disagreement about this. I
believe I am Gen X 1964. September. There are some places
that say you're a boomer Tina keep because she's definitely
Boomer because she's 1962. And I just remind her I was the face
of Generation X. You were
Dave Jones: Yeah, I'm deaf. I'm definitely Gen X. You're You're
I think you're Gen X.
Adam Curry: Well, I know. I'm Gen X, but there's disagreement
from some borderline boomers.
Dave Jones: Are they on the council? Are they on the Gen X?
Boomer council that my wife apparently Yes. You're one of
us. Don't try to deny. So but he said, you know, if you if you
know anybody whose baby boomer or older tell them about these
things, because they are a target right now. Billions of
dollars is being milked fro
Adam Curry: Yes. Oh, older people. I've actually helped
some people here. Who was going to be Oh, yeah, no, it took them
to the bank and everything like Stop, stop, stop this payment.
Stop this stop that, you know, ah, sad. And we've we've had,
we've had we got a special thing coming up in church for these
people. Oh, that's good. Because then the main thing is, in the,
you know, text messages, they're the you know, that's the big,
that's the big catch all so I got a text message. So that must
be official. And what what these guys got me with was the 512
area code that was sophisticated.
Dave Jones: And in the end, the local accent and and, and, and
Adam Curry: the police radio in the background. That was good.
And it was loud. You know, like there was a dispatcher. That was
quite
Dave Jones: well, let's see this. This is in 2023 total
losses reported by c three to those over the age of 62. Up to
$3.4 billion.
Adam Curry: Dude, it's a bigger industry than podcasting.
Dave Jones: We're the wrong money with these guys.
Adam Curry: We're in the wrong business.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we should do how you it's it says tickets is
value for value. You give me money and you don't go to jail.
Adam Curry: You know, just kind of on that, on that tip. But
where everything's going, the streamers are, are there. It's
all going down. It's happening in real time right before our
eyes. We you know, so first of all the recognition that no one
is watching television anymore. I mean, of course there's the
people watching obviously obviously some shows they'll
have millions of people watching, but not 20 million.
Dave Jones: Quick Adam, name me one television show that's on
broadcast television right now.
Adam Curry: Now the only thing I would guess is NCSI but I don't
even know what the which one Special Victims Unit I couldn't
know I can't name anything
Dave Jones: at all six people in the last week that question not
one of them that name one you
Adam Curry: know, this one, they say how do you go bankrupt
really slow and then it goes fast. All of a sudden this I
think we're in the going fast acceleration phase. And what's
happening now is the streaming companies who of course now you
know, now we got to show profitability. It's not to say
that Netflix isn't successful. Netflix, arguably the earliest,
the quickest to the game. And they've pulled back on a lot of
their a lot of the money they were putting into production.
And of course everyone's now starting with ads. Everybody has
an ad. So we've taken advertising base television off
of cable primarily. And remember, cable was brilliant,
because you got paid per household. So if you just had a
channel on cable, this would Al Gore he bought he bought and
sold the whatever I forget, it became AlJazeera I think I don't
know. Really? Yeah, if you are in a million households, you get
a million bucks a month. That's just because it minimum $1 ESPN,
which is still I think required. You're required to take ESPN by
most cable companies, they get $7 per subscriber per month off
of that cable bill goes to ESPN or slash Disney. So now the now
in so we unbundled everything basically pulled it all apart.
We got Disney over here. And we got Paramount over here. And
we've got Hulu, which was kind of a sad bundling of television
shows. And now, well, I'm going to go to the ditzes at Yahoo
Finance. two clips. The first the first one. The first one
shows you kind of the lay of the land. The second one I think is
actually the meat of what's happening here.
Unknown: Rebbes Lake Alliance has emerged in the intensifying
streaming wars, Disney and Warner Brothers discovery are
teaming up to release a brand new streaming bundle later this
year. So what does this new partnership mean for the
streaming landscape moving forward? We're looking at how to
navigate the big picture with the Yahoo Finance playbook. And
we're joined by Ken Leon, Research Director of equity
research at CFRA and Jamie lovingly, third bridge sector
analysts shaping them start with you. You're here with us in
studio, I really
Adam Curry: want to slap her but
Unknown: man, I just keep getting like so amused by this
discussion, because it's like this new innovation bundling,
which is cable. No,
Adam Curry: it's not cable because these bundles don't get
paid per channel. That's not true finance lady PayPal
Unknown: did right. But do you think that this is the way
forward? And is this going to benefit the various parties who
are doing it?
It definitely is interesting development. And we're seeing
this increasingly in this space. One thing we've been hearing a
third bridge from the experts we speak with just the fact that
what streamers are looking for ways to not only drive growth,
but also manage churn is a huge issue. Serial Turner's are one
of the things which all these platforms have to deal with his
people, either at the end of their show, they decided to
switch to a new platform at the end of a sports season, they
decide to just cut off that service. By having these
bundles, it's a new way that they can both drive longer term
customer value, but also showcasing different types of
content, you know, with the matchup of a Hulu and a max and
it Disney plus, it really covers all the bases of genres and can
appeal to a lot of different audiences.
Adam Curry: Okay, so a lot of blahdy blahdy blah, but the
whole point is, they're churning cereal churn, which is great
show title, actually, cereal churn, because people are doing
exactly what we've heard everybody say, Yeah, I just want
to see this one show. And then I'll cancel the minute I sign up
and I pay my What is it now? Is it 17 $18, which is still pretty
high, but I'll pay that and then if there's something else going
on, I'll catch it later. Now the second guy kind of lays out the
the real bones of this. I
Unknown: think when you look at the bigger picture, it's really
a lot of these media companies trying to figure out how can
they be profitable. So the first step was reducing programming
and content spending. The second was de risking, because they
have no control really, of the customer. Unlike wireless, or
even cable TV decades ago, you had one or two year contracts,
so churn is very high, they will never release that. And also, if
you look at where Entertainment has moved to events to live
sports. So none of these management's will say that they
can get to a 20% operating margin on this business, nor a
50% EBIT, margin like wireless, so it's not a great business and
I think they're all de risking, they're reducing capital, and
they're gonna say, Gee, Netflix is a winner, large technology
companies can play here, what can we do for two things, one,
tried to grow subscribers and to try to get advertising revenue.
There
Adam Curry: it is. So basically, we're going to see consolidation
Paramount is now being ripped apart, the all the parts are
going to be the actually the parts are worth more than the
than the whole. And the sum of the parts individually, it's
going to be ripped apart is going to be you know, typical
leveraged buyout. So you know, the strip all the assets, get
rid of Get out, get rid of all the people with lots of firings
ahead, and there will be some offerings, but it's all going
advertiser base, the big draw of Netflix and all these other
streamers was hey, man, I just pay a fee and I don't have to
deal with ads. It's all going to come back. It's all gonna get
crappier. And yes, you will have still have some big hit shows,
just like in the music business we have. We still have a Taylor
Swift and a Beyonce and there's an even there, I'm starting to
see some actual revenue issues. For Podcasting, value for value
is truly the only way to build up your community. I don't care
if it's 100 people that it is the only way forward at this
point. And the advertise and certainly in podcasting, no,
it's just No, it's not working anymore. Except for per inquiry.
I still like codes. If you get paid on a code bond, Gino, I
still think that works with what they what we call a post read I
think that's still works. And you're nothing like a little
boost. Which was well that's that's a low baller. That's a
7772 Crayon. Yeah. That's correct. Yes, thank you. Thank
you, I'm gonna have to turn that one off. So you guys are abusing
it. You should only be you should only be using that just
to accentuate something with the harp. When you light up the
harp.
Dave Jones: I see. I see Eric pap fixing bugs. So. Yes. And,
you know, you saw I didn't fully understand what Spotify did with
that price floor change on
Adam Curry: their bundling.
Dave Jones: No, they said they said their Spotify Audience
Network span
Adam Curry: lowered the worst name ever. As horrible. Really?
Did you just say spam what? We're just calling it spam. From
now on. We're just calling it spam. The
Dave Jones: marketing jargon here was was virtually
impenetrable. But I think I figured it out. They said that
when it's all got to do with programmatic delivery, like you
know, stitching in the ad as you as you listen. And evidently
they call it a waterfall.
Adam Curry: Yeah, where you're at the bottom drowning.
Dave Jones: It's a waterfall where your foots in the drain.
Yeah. So they have there's like three layers to this thing.
There's direct sale, or direct buy and then there's span the
span Spotify Audience Network, and then there's like
programmatic delivery I guess that's like we don't have
anything else let's deliver a Viagra ad or something needed
bottom of the barrel. Yeah, but but the spec they said they
lowered the price floor on the span part and I think what that
means is that the Spotify Audience Network will take we'll
get more of the of the inventory delivery.
Adam Curry: Yeah, the the remnant the low level fruit the
not even fruit is dried up with dried up. It's like raisins,
Dave Jones: in a way is raisins. Yeah, it'll win it'll win the
bid more often. So things are pulling from span more. And like
this. You know, we aren't we we already have seen this
subscription stuff. That's, that's the only way to make
these things work. The advertising alone can't sustain
it. It's not everywhere you look it's always which You know
Adam Curry: not gonna last long kids use it sparingly.
Dave Jones: But the I think we got our we ended up with a wrong
idea of the way that the monetization of all of this
stuff worked. Because we put your Facebook and Google, which
dominated advertising in May, obviously makes make billions
and billions of dollars. And so I think it left us with this
idea that advertising is, is always in everywhere going to be
a winning strategy for for, you know, for revenue. But
Adam Curry: it's not, but it's not no, it
Dave Jones: only it's only a winning strategy if you are
essentially a monopoly in a business which Google is and
Facebook is. Facebook is, is a is a virtual I hate this. I hate
the term virtual monopoly. Yes, but they but you I think you
understand my meaning and the players within the social media
world. Facebook is as close to a monopoly as you're gonna get a
Twitter's a, that's a joke. I mean, it's an also ran. And it
Facebook, Facebook is the 900 pound gorilla. Nobody even comes
close to second.
Adam Curry: That's because they they're not really in brand
advertising there. They're like the classifieds. You know, it's
like, and that's starting to wane as well be you want, you
want some spam, you want some bots, go and put an ad on
Facebook. I mean, that's podcasting
Dave Jones: is the anti monopoly. Ooh,
Adam Curry: like that is showing that. You
Dave Jones: know what I mean? They're there. It's the
podcasting is by definition, anti monopoly because it is so
diverse. Nobody will ever dominate. In this in this arena.
Even people who have large audiences, there still only one
show in a person's podcast app. That person also has, if a
person listens to doesn't matter if a person listens to three
hours of Joe Rogan a week. That person also has 17 Other
subscriptions. Yeah. And it's net, it is absolutely the anti
monopoly. And so there's no way that advertising is going to
ever become the main player that supports podcasting. It's just
not. I mean, I mean, in order to provide everybody with like,
livelihoods is not happening.
Adam Curry: Well, in addition, in addition to that, we went
horribly wrong many, many years ago in podcasting, I would like
to try and explain and this has come up for me recently, as I am
realizing that the pitch podcasting is making is pretty
much centered around a couple things right now monetization
growing your show video. That's pretty much the pitch. And when
we first started, okay, so when we first started podcasting,
what was so common, I don't use this word easily. What was so
awesome was you were hearing people who weren't professional
broadcasters, they didn't have a professional delivery.
Unfortunately, it was very hard to even get a semi professional
sound. And so somewhere along the line because and I tried it
was 10 years ago, I tried to get the Kastmaster probe out there
and like we need to get people back into just sitting down
recording and then putting that out and because we didn't have
real time processing basically we had musician gear you know
that we were that we had repurposed broadcast gear was
out of control expensive. I mean, the amount of rigs I have
built over the years with DB X compressor limiters with literal
racks with the what I have done processing units 19 inch boards
everything because that was just too much for people to figure
out and and the sound quality was so poor without some of the
basics we resulted to this format where you record then you
or preferably you hire someone who is then going to process
that check you chop out all the arms and the eyes and tighten up
spaces of now you Phil Spector with a wall of sound brighter
eyes, my big baggy as boys and we became and we became
something that is just boring like radio, you know, just we've
kind of reached we kind of recreate He did that. And we
never really got that. In fact, Dave Winer, I think he said,
This might have been an interview he did. I'm thinking
James Cridland had this somewhere. Weiner was concerned.
And it's a valid concern. He was concerned about me being kind of
the face of podcasting, because and I think there's something to
this, because people would hear me and think, Well, I can never
be that professional. Whereas the idea that you can just be
someone who just records a podcast about your the topic,
that's your passion, about your community of interest about your
local community, about your school, your church, your your,
your soccer club, whatever it is. And that that will be Oh,
that's not a good podcast. And I think we actually that happened
to us, we got to that point where, well, that's not a good
plug. And now it's even taking it one step further. If you
don't have headphones on with mics, and it doesn't say rode on
the boom, and you don't have video, you're not a podcast.
Yeah. And along with that comes a need because we have serial
churn, we have serial churn in the hosting business. And as I
was listening, I've only listened to a little bit of pod
news weekly review, but as I was listening about you know, the
the never ending conversation of purse first party data, bliss
and time statistics, etc. A James and Sam both made valid
points that James says, Look, stats are very important because
that's kind of the only thing that the new podcasts are has
that validates what they're doing is okay, I see a download
from from Lithuania. And I'm sure it's Dolby Das, his mom who
sit in there. And you know, I won't go into downloads. You
know, all these weird kind of stats. Interestingly, now that
James has seen that, that his, the Buzzsprout, what does that
thing called?
Dave Jones: Fan Mail fan mail, that
Adam Curry: if he puts that if he incorporates that into a
show, all of Jacksonville, Florida will send him fan mail,
which is of course what Buzzsprout is located. But the
idea that comments will be one way totally valid. And then Sam
pipes him, but it was kind of poo pooed a little bit. But what
I have seen when you put someone on value for value, and they see
Satoshis coming in the mail one person listening is exciting
because you every minute you see five SATs go by I just had this
experience, a dear old friend of mine, Vic Pepe, know from the
music business. He's been a big IT guy now. He started a podcast
called 10,000 miles. And even though he knows me, and even
though I was number two interview on his podcast, it was
all YouTube is all YouTube. And you know, he's got the camera
all set up. And everything is he's done like nine episodes.
And he says, you know, what, do you got any feedback? I said,
Yeah, turd, you're talking to the pod father here. And so I
send them to blueberry to vid to pod any and he gets it set up,
you know, a couple of hiccups and stuff. But Mike Newman
actually very helpful. So he gets a set up, he puts it out
there. Its value for value. And of course, I boost him
obviously, he's all jacked. He's calling me like, I got gotten a
boost for me. But then he sees other people just listening, he
got a boost. He's like, how does this happen? It's amazing. So he
is so excited. Just and it's not about the amount of money. It's
just the validation, which he's not getting from YouTube, on
YouTube, you know, he's got like 100 views, you know, 200 views,
my episode was more i I tweeted it a link or whatever. But in
general, it's just a, it's a handful of views. And so when he
sees that coming in, he's excited. And I feel that podcast
hosting companies. Now, of course, some notable exceptions
who were all in on this train, need to push that because that
is what's going to retain your customer. That is the excitement
that people need. And I think it's great that you know, people
have magic, magic mix music, sound things and all that to
help people I think all of that is fantastic. You know, but but
we need to maintain the idea that just anybody can do it. You
stop with this pressure of OH, you can get out of $10,000 in
advertising. That's not going to retain anybody. It's
unobtainable, actually. And I think that we even and this kind
of gave me a thought that you know, for for comments I hate
using the CAC term, but for activity pub interactions, the
social interact as it's technically known Maybe that
should be something the hosting company should be pushing,
instead of relying on the apps to do all this work. That was
actually something James said. I think so too. And I caught
myself going. Yeah, you know, I think you're right there. I
think that's, that's a really good point we have, because of
the push we have made, because of the integrations we have
done, we actually got something to be done that people said
couldn't be done for a decade was Apple actually did
something. Now, yeah, typical Apple fashion, you know, they do
it their own way. And you know, their shit don't stink, and
they're better with their transcripts for I don't care.
They linked to our namespace, and it's a validation of what
we're doing. I believe we can push many more of these things.
Now, is it unthinkable that they would allow you to connect a
wallet, etc. In the future? I don't know. But I know that my
boy Vic is now pushing 2.0 apps because he loves it. He loves
the idea of seeing validation come in. And his hosting company
is blueberry because blueberry allows that and he was able to
figure it out himself, you know, when he got a wallet and
everything was all set up. Beautiful. And but now and you
know, I pointed him towards Saturn because Saturn relaunched
their stats for what is that it's honestly your I keep
forgetting Saturn dot fly dot
Dave Jones: Dev. Yet wonderful. You
Adam Curry: are now it's horrible. You are I'll be out
contracts is still out there. And then of course for the more
advanced, you know, helipad. And the same goes for for life. You
know, this is the trend people love listening to live, they
just love it. And you know, what do we have? I don't even know
what we have in the boardroom right now. It's like maybe what
20 People doesn't matter. It's that interaction. It's these
things that are going back and forth. It's full. If you and I
just did the show and had nothing but stats and podcast
index dot social, I think it'd be we'd be a lot less motivated.
Dave Jones: Oh, for sure. Totally. I don't know what it is
about. Because Because you're it's no different than just
looking at a spreadsheet. Like, if you get okay, it's it's the
difference between if we just talking about purely financial I
mean, like there's, there's, I think there's a lot more to it.
It's a psychological thing more than financial. But, but let's
just put it in financial terms, just for illustrations purposes.
If you if your company is doing if you just get a spreadsheet at
the end of the quarter, saying well, you just you know, you
made this much profit. I mean, that's great, but it's not what
you would call exciting.
Adam Curry: Spread, but not sexy.
Dave Jones: But if you're a bit if you're a sales guy, and
you're getting those commission checks every month, you that's a
different thing. There's something about I don't know how
to explain some value
Adam Curry: for value, I put this work into it, I got
something back.
Dave Jones: And, but it's more like the I think the difference
with boosts and streaming sets is that you're getting pushed,
you're getting real time communication. It feels like
like if somebody turns when somebody listens to your show.
Okay, here, here's a I think I'm zeroing in on this right now.
Okay, so when I listen to a podcast, I can't control the
show. You hit the play button. In your, in your now you've
turned yourself over to the host. They're in control. You
are now just along for the ride. And you don't and it's there's
an excitement there because you're not sure what's going to
happen next. Because you're you're relinquishing your
control. Yes, you've become passive. And you're experiencing
the the podcast. That value for value is streaming says flips
that back on the podcast or to where now the podcaster is doing
the same thing. They've relinquished control and they're
watching seeing things happen in real time as these events come
back to them. Yeah, it's sort of it's like the most pure two way
street. Because you're it's almost like your your watch as
the podcaster you're watching this event happening the same
way your audience is, you know, I think so. I think it's it yes,
there's a financial aspect to it. And it's always nice to make
some to make some money and that kind of thing. But like when
you're when that when the harp triggered a while ago. Yeah,
yeah, was it we didn't know that was gonna happen and it makes it
fun. Yeah, it makes the whole experience fun because you're
So, now you've engaged your audience and they're able to
bring you on an on an unexpected journey that you can't control.
I think I think that's, I never thought a bill I like like that.
That's a really cool idea. It's,
Adam Curry: it's important because it, and I'm saying this
for our hosting company partners, they're the most
stable part of the entire ecosystem. And the, you know,
the amount of time and energy may be nothing for him, I don't
know, but what, what Buzzsprout put into the fan mail app, I
mean, I wish they would have put that that energy into, you know,
a social interact, they're there. They're a big player,
when they do something, when in fact, they were instrumental in
moving a lot of these things by adopting transcripts and
chapters and all these things early on. And, you know, as one
goes, so go the rest. And then I love seeing the 2.0 native
companies. I mean, these guys, I think that there, if you look at
them on a pure profitability scale, they're probably out
doing percentage wise, bigger companies, because it's, you
know, it's one guy, right, one guy who can do everything, and
can still handle the relatively low amount of, of customer
support. But they're really pushing the envelope really
moving the needle on things. I see what Sam was doing with true
fans, I mean, he's out of control. He's out of control, is
out of control, you selling books, and there's all kinds of
stuff happening, which is great. I mean, it's beautiful. It's not
all quite, you know, there's not a lot of ecosystem behind him
yet. But he's worried
Dave Jones: that it's madness. Yes, it's pure madness. But the
Adam Curry: idea that you want to give somebody joy for just
being themselves, I'd like to get back to that. That's what
the podcast industrial complex, it kind of kind of clicked for
me. I was having a couple of conversations with people. I'm
like, you know, what, where do we go wrong with, you know,
here's, we kind of talked about this last week, but radios main
function. And I've been in radio since I was 15 years old with a
five watt transmitter in my little village south of
Amsterdam. Radio has always been a local medium. So whether it
was the kids in my neighborhood going, Hey, man, I heard your
signal and my mom drove me around the block to the closed
hospital radio station at the tulip Hospital in I'm still
Fein, where it was literally a captured audience. They could
not leave. And we're basically just playing requests for them
from their family, etc. For people who are in the hospital
Dave Jones: that has a really fun hobby. It
Adam Curry: was great fun. To the pirate radio stations. Yeah,
we had 150 Watts, we were only covering Amsterdam, we called
ourselves the rhythm of the Capitol, you know that we were
just playing dance music, but really for a dance oriented city
at the time. But to dizzy 100 in New York, even though that was
you know, 50,000 watts at the Empire State Building 50,000
Watts, you know, who did a flame thrower, who? New York. He was
still local radio. I was talking about the local events about the
mayor, you know, all these things that were local. Now
Elvis Duran, who I know really well. I've known Elvis when he
was still in radio and Austin in like the in the late 90s. That
he became the morning guy in New York. It's 100. Of course,
everything got consolidate. He went to I think they've got
bought by I heart. And so he now is the morning show guy in eight
cities, eight top markets. And yeah, they've localized stuff,
you know, in between record. Hey, it's Elvis Duran in New
York. Hey, it's almost ran in Houston. Yeah, so they've
localized that, but it's no longer local, and we've lost our
way in radio, and I'd like to bring that back. And now we have
all of that capability. In fact, I've been toying with the idea
of really just starting a local Fredericksburg, a Fredericksburg
local show that and it should be live and I don't know if it's
every morning or whatever, but it needs to be live. It's a
podcast you can listen to whenever you want
Dave Jones: to please do a morning show. For greater
Fredericksburg weather.
Adam Curry: There's a lot going on in Fredericksburg and we only
have one weekly newspaper. And it's very politically motivated
and it's very left which is you know, contrary to a lot of live
around here. But it's
Dave Jones: per se that pollen counts up to 2500. Today you'll
be careful out there. There's
Adam Curry: a lot going on in Fredericksburg that is not
discussed that there is no end all the all the towns and cities
really have as a Facebook page where everyone yells at each
other and is useless. So
Dave Jones: college it just a local college
Adam Curry: Thank you even just a local call in show. So I've
given myself the the edict to lift 1000 voices across America.
I haven't figured out what that means yet, but I'm working on
it. Because and it's actually you know, this guy, Fernando.
Hold on a second. Let me grab this
Dave Jones: fernet. Feta net, Fernando.
Adam Curry: Fernando is Where'd that come from?
Dave Jones: Did that come through?
Adam Curry: What was that? Sorry. That's that was
Dave Jones: the Bluetooth does work actually.
Adam Curry: I was looking I don't think I put that into the
into helipad. Again,
Dave Jones: I forgot that I looked up the road caster the
Bluetooth. Okay.
Adam Curry: So he so he's a kid who he came to America from
Brazil with 100 bucks in his pocket. And, and so he has a
full time job. But he started this company audio sigma. Let me
see if I can find the audio signal here. Sigma. Yeah, here
we go audio sigma.com. And actually, Todd turned me on to
be and so you know, we got to talking. And so he's now built
this thing called, Oh, these are pretty Yeah, the pod mobile. And
it was all analog, basically transistor base. And now he's
done a DSP version. And he's actually sent me one I haven't
tested and tested on his other ones. So here is a device that
is about 300 bucks. And it really does everything it does
everything your road caster can do, but limited, you know, it,
it's for one or two mics it has does have the loopback for your
computer, you can actually power it from the computer doesn't
even have an external supply. But my point is, here's here's a
an entry level device, and maybe I have to do some courseware or
something. Thank you Sam Sethi and Dobby das for getting that
set up because now that now there's a way to do it to do
courseware to help people just use your own voice to have a
good sound I just need people to your sound just has to be good.
This device I've tested these other ones of his there
dynamite. I mean, I said you should be handing this out to
Ray Ray roving radio reporters could you can clip it on your
belt, plug it into your phone, it sounds fantastic. But you
know, like we need to get back to that place and stop with the
it all has to be professional. It all has to sound big. It all
has to be perfectly you listen. I love James Cridland. The way
he speaks. I love his imperfections. I know he's I
know he has a stutter. I love that. That that makes him a
human being to me. And he and he doesn't edit it out and he could
easily do it but he doesn't. And
Dave Jones: Todd, I love I love to deliver Todd has taught
Adam Curry: us voice that is I mean, if you would go to a radio
station, they laugh you out of the building that voice No. But
that's what makes it so beautiful. And we've had these
guys who do stuff live Todd and Rob they do stuff live. And even
when they're boring me to death, I can listen to him live. It's
exciting. I can send a boost. I can I can rag on him I can. This
is where we need to get back to with podcasting. And we need to
just take a breather on this incessant non stop advertising
video. Got it? I mean, this is why no one's making money in
podcasting is because you all gotta hire an editor, Jan briny.
I love her DeVore I trained her I would say she does value for
value, but she gives away a lot of her value. Because she has
someone edit
Dave Jones: for her. Yeah, that's, that's steep. Whereas
this, if
Adam Curry: we just learned to be a little bit better, you
know, by doing it, go ahead and stumble and make mistakes. This
is this was the I have to credit my ex wife with my ex ex wife my
first way when I was just starting out 19 years old is on
television for the whole country is doing radio, but the
television mainly, you know, and we do the show was once a week,
half the country watch and we'd be watching at home. And I'd be
I can't believe I flubbed that I hate. Like I'm mad at myself
because I flubbed a word. I stumbled over something and she
would look at me and go, you're not a robot that makes you
human. And then I took that to heart and ever since I've just
I've given up on it and and I think I've been pretty
successful in my career. By leaving that stuff in
Dave Jones: there, they send my daughter we had this exact
conversation with my daughter last night so she's, she's in a
band. And she they had A gig at an art auction in this it was
basically like a just a background gig for these high
high dollar art auctions at this local gallery. And people were
drinking and stuff and it was his her and four of her buddies
and they played the see they played boozer made his base made
for walking
Adam Curry: as Nancy Sinatra classic. Do
Dave Jones: they play creep by Radiohead.
Adam Curry: Creep I'm doing a little
Dave Jones: they played well, what's the the Jets?
Adam Curry: Nana nana nana da. Well, I found out that one
Dave Jones: day didn't their dad and
Adam Curry: dad. were sucking really bad now that 123 Take a
look at me. That's the one.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I can't remember they played that one. I
can't remember the name escapes me. But they they played a nice
little set. And so after it's over, she's like, you know,
she's like, Oh, I messed up. Mr. Fong crepe. I didn't. I didn't
come in at the right at the right. Part. And I was like,
we're like, you're, you're. That's that's the beauty here.
Are
Adam Curry: you gonna be my girls language? Here we go.
Yeah. Yeah, who just hit us with a baller boost. Throw on a
second. Someone hits with the baller boost. Hello, phantom
power media. Dave, this is phantom power media. Hello,
Dave, tell your daughter to apply for our bands at Bitcoin
stage in July. It's an ad. It's a native ad.
Dave Jones: I will I will deliver this message
Adam Curry: I'm gonna remove it. If you guys don't stop that.
Dave Jones: Miss, she'll have to, she'll have to pay for cover
band or a cover music rights. Right? Mechanical
Adam Curry: rights. Right? Yeah, if she does that one. Yeah. But,
you
Dave Jones: know, we're telling her like, Hey, this is your
you're playing with a band, you've only been playing for the
band for a couple months. This is part of this is how you learn
by failing. Yes, you know, you learn you, you you go out you.
Because that's another thing with
Adam Curry: auto channel. That's another thing that screwed
everything up. Oh, so
Dave Jones: much giving up control, when that's another
time that you give up control. And that's one of the things
that makes playing live with a band. So exciting. Yes. And Eric
peepee literally said the exact same thing. Same Time I Saw
that's what makes it exciting is that you don't know what's going
to happen. And you're putting your own performance in the
hands of other people. Because the drummer may screw up. And
you know what, it's your job to save that to save the drummer.
Yes. And everybody's in it together. play bass, play bass.
This band is kind of cool, because they all swap out and
play everything. Oh excheap The one of the songs she plays drums
one song she plays guitar once on that she plays bass. And they
all kind of like in between songs. They all shuffle. Which
makes it even more complicated. Of course, you're gonna miss
out. But good drummers now. Yeah, right. But anyway, that
now I think I think you're right. I think the return to
load. Podcasting is perfect for local. Because yes, like
imagining that, that, especially now that we can do live over
podcast apps. I mean, that's perfect. You. I'm just imagining
a return to that to your hospital DJ. Yep, scenario where
it's like, you know, Hey, man, floor three Myrtle and room 302.
You know, we were here he is, you know,
Adam Curry: did I ever tell you what we would do with when we
had a coup, we had our show on Friday night. And I was I was
the NG I was 15. I was the engineer. So what you do is you
go before the show started, you'd hand out request forms,
which are just pieces of paper. I was 15. So that's 45 years
ago. And, and they would fill it out. And then we take those back
and we'd start the show. But the studio was in the corner of kind
of a an auditorium not huge, but you know, where they would have
like small, like a bit like a three times a conference room
just put and the window. The Double Glass was right there. So
it was in the corner so you could see people in the studio,
and the studio could see out. So what we would do is we would
actually get the kids and we would roll their beds down into
the auditorium. Oh, that's cool. And then but we were playing I
remember it well. Iggy Pop lust for life. Remember that song? I
got a lust for life. A little bit like the Jets actually. And
so while that was playing, we got and we put we play bumper
beds with the kids we'd be bummed. The beds again. I
actually learned how to reinsert an IV from that experience,
like, crap. I can't come over here. Like, we're not all over
the place. But yeah. And it was arguably one of the most fun
times of my career and was, yeah, it was. It was unpaid. It
was a, you know, it's just a volunteer work. But yes, there's
local communities of interest, community, geographic
communities, but I think we've come the open, wide open
opportunity. And I'm going to tell you something, I'm going to
prove this. If I even if I'm not hosting, if I'm just exec
producing, or whatever I am doing because it's that's part
of my mission is I need to find new people to do stuff. I think
it can be run, where it would pay for itself and that people
would, you know, maybe it's not a full time gig, but I think a
local community would support a local station, a local, a local
show, I think it would support that it really would. Well,
Dave Jones: you already did in a in the the now lost to history,
the last episode of podcasting 2.0 That you did a you did a
request a music request show. And that was arena over boosts.
Adam Curry: That was the most highly boosted episode ever.
Dave Jones: Yeah, ever of all time. Yes. And this like so
there's no you now have in 2.0 ABS you can now do live streams
and boosts and you can get that's there you go. You have
you have a call in request show right there. So I think you
know, the other thing like is my daughter, my oldest daughter,
she's 22. She you're the last to face her work show. Yeah, that's
right. We she's in she's in communications, like, mass
communications. And so she was told recently, basically, that I
forgot who this was no future kid. It was almost like that.
She she's made. She's majoring currently in, in mass
communications. And the person told her basically do not go
into do not think that you're going to go into local
television because it's dead. Oh, yeah, that's exactly what
you've been saying the last couple of weeks. He said local
local affiliates shutting down or shutting
Adam Curry: down. You know, chat, if just the post in the
boardroom, you said you just described homegrown hits. You've
never heard that show. It's exactly right. Also, the no
agenda stream which is now that's been around so long that
that's really become its own entity. And that is 24 hours a
day. But people literally tune in to hear Darren Oh, on
Thursdays and Sundays they tune in to hear nick the rat on
Wednesdays they tune the tuning in. Then you have in the smoker
you've got oh my goodness, beers with buds, but you know, buds
with buds beard and smoking buds. There's all these
different shows. And it's all within that same ecosystem of
very simple chat room, the booster grams have become super
important. And it's not. It's not that Darren O is retiring?
No, it's It's the feedback mechanism is the hey man you
boosted cool, you see it in the chat room, the host responds to
it. This is stuff that that actually will. That is working,
the proof is there. And we need a little more engagement, I
think from the hosting companies, not all and I'm not,
I'm generalizing to a huge degree. And I'm also extremely
grateful with all the hosting companies have done so far. But
we can do more. And
Dave Jones: I don't see why these local reporters for local
stations couldn't just strike out on their own and do and do a
local oriented podcast. And
Adam Curry: we'll see we'll see some of that. But a lot of that
a lot of that culture and attitude is not easy to break. I
mean, the idea that you're going from we'll be right back after
these messages to begging for money grifting you know, all the
stuff that gets thrown at your head. That's a very tough change
for most people. Now I wanted as a part of this since we have the
Phantom the Phantom people in the nmpa National Music
Publishers Association sent a very damning letter to Spotify
and this is important that pertains to us. And Jim actually
posted on podcast index social about this. They say let me see
where this is. It has come to our attention that Spotify
displays lyrics and reproduces and distributes music videos and
podcasts using musical works without the consent of or
compensation to the respective publisher and or administrators.
are members in Perkins, who control the copyrights in the
musical compass compositions. As such, these uses of musical
works on the Spotify platform are not licensed or will soon
become unlicensed. So this is very interesting. I'm not so
this is probably more about lyrics and the music videos, but
the fact that put podcasts in there is important because
you're going to see podcasts come down very quickly from
Spotify. And a lot of them because people are using music
in in so many different ways that is unlicensed, because you
literally can't license it from from the traditional systems.
And Spotify will not think twice, it'll be hooked, gone,
quick, gone, hook gone hook, it's gonna be they're gonna be
running algos on it, it's going to be gone, gone, gone. And even
if it's just mute, they're not even going to check and see if
they if it's licensed, I just going to remove it. Big
opportunity. The main thing we need to shore up and we have a
version of it, we don't have everything perfect. But I would
think we need to implement the music license, the remote item
license, whatever we call it for inclusion of a bit of someone
else's work in your podcast, I'd like the remote item licensed
better than a music license. That was the same thing. So this
this is not not I'm not talking about an RSS feed of songs. Now.
There's a whole bunch of issues that have come up that that we
need to discuss but purely remote item. License. Yes, you
can use this under the value for value auspices. The it's been
written, it's out there, I think it just needs to be added to the
namespace and link so people can include it.
Dave Jones: Is that the case? Honestly, no. So I feel so ill
equipped to deal with something like this, that I feel like I
need somebody else to just give me the wording to put
Adam Curry: to put I'm gonna, I'm gonna carry this, I'm going
to carry this. I'm going to carry this the
Dave Jones: I think the lat to me where it fell off a cliff was
all of a sudden it took a turn into. Yeah, and we need to be
able to block certain apps from being able to play certain
music. And I was like, Whoa, I mean that
Adam Curry: the Exactly. So the, the way I don't carry this Dave
and I will I'll get the consensus and everything. So
there's a couple things one, I in this is the main thing we
have to understand. If you have an RSS feed, and you have an
enclosure, and that enclosure is an mp3, there is no difference
between it being dry, dred Scott's ISO, a feed, no agenda,
three and a half hour shows, or a three minute song. In the
world of podcasting, they are equal, ergo, therefore, if
you're going to like that, as my lawyer talk, you sound like a
philosopher is Raha ergo, therefore, the remote item
license is how I view this. So it's not because it's a song.
Because I feel that what if I make a great joke, or there's a
great a great bid, and someone wants to include that in their
show, just as valuable to me, as someone who spent three years
writing a song, you may not think that's fair, but in the
world that we're dealing with, they're equal. And so we need
the mechanism, if you're going to include something in your
show, and it's in the realm of value for value, you should be
able to say from this moment in time to this moment in time,
switch the wallets. It's coming from over there. And I think we
can add into that, a minimum requirement. So you got to give
me minimum 50%. You know, of the value block, take more if you
want. I mean, I think that's and it's always all going to be
gentlemen's agreement, general woman's agreement, Gen Zers
agreement. But we need that at a minimum to protect ourselves.
Even though we're all going to get kicked off a Spotify and AB
it's all coming. This is why we built this Dave, because they
will not discriminate. You got music and your podcast, you're
done goodbye. They're not going to check. They don't care. They
got no infrastructure to see. It's just like YouTube, as you
know, like tick tock, it'd be muted, all the all these
problems are coming, but we can solidify for ourselves that we
have the agreement and we're all cool with each other.
Dave Jones: So you think they're gonna start taking down stuff
that's not even guaranteed? There's not even related to
this, you know, an
Adam Curry: example our church which I believe so our church
has a worship team, which as we all know, is Christian for band.
So they were worship teams. And the worst is
Dave Jones: to drummer have the plexiglass you better believe
it?
Adam Curry: Yes, you better believe it. Yeah, he's got the
cage. So the worship team licenses music, from you know,
there's a whole industry, and it puts the words up on the screen.
So everybody can sing holy, holy, holy, and hands in the
air, like, we just don't care. And it's license, they pay
rights. And those rights are also for use in recordings on on
YouTube. And every month, at least once YouTube takes down
one of the sermons because they say you got to strike because
you use the license work, even though they have the right to
use it, they have the paperwork, it's backed up, it's, it's an
established system, which has been going for decades, the
system still takes the whole thing down. So that's going to
happen at Spotify now. It's just going to happen. So we need our
stuff to be tight. So that when content producers, whether they
make music or audio books, or whatever it is, we need a system
that is fair, and and and and open and everybody can
participate in. Hey, I made 100, I made 100 SATs on this. Here's
your ad.
Dave Jones: So in and the license in the feed is a signal.
Yes, yes. This is this has this has been covered.
Adam Curry: Covered. Yeah, it's just it's just like Creative
Commons. Except, you know, we do it under this this particular
license. Now. I know that we're going to run into all kinds of
problems down the line and disagreements, et cetera over
music itself. I can't deal with that right now. All I can deal
with is the inclusion of a remote item. That part I want to
shore up so that when when the Exodus takes place, people know
they can come here. They can come into this ecosystem, and
they can promote the apps that understand and do this and
promote the apps that give the pass the value through. We will
we will overcome may pleasing Grace
Dave Jones: shall over.
Adam Curry: We will we will. So remote item license is what I'm
looking at. Okay, remote, so you can use this content no matter
what it is at as a remote item. Here's my here's my my baseline
requirement. And the technology actually handles most of it. The
technology handle, you know if it needs to be surfaced what
this is, you know, just like when I look at I'm at podcast
Guru, I look at the sidestream music podcast by the way, Cody's
a great great episode this week was music Tony Hawk screwed up
on and didn't put it in his in his game. Really good as read
all the funny music. Yeah, it's very first great promotion. I
can go on, I hit the V for V tab and I see all the songs. I could
save those songs to a playlist, I could boost them separately, I
can play them separately, I can get into the arts and that that
stuff that technology, that remote item Thank you Alec says
is taken care of, is taken care of all that is done. So our
stuff will be tight. So that whenever anybody thinks they're
gonna come and mess with us, they won't even come be that let
those guys play over there. They're not the real music
industry. Okay. Well, we've we've got, we've got some kind
of, you know, what, what is the
Dave Jones: remote item license actually protect against
Adam Curry: protects against nothing. It's an agreement the
EU. It's just like a Creative Commons. If you really want to
take someone to court, you can create and I've, I've, I've
proven the Creative Commons copyright works in court for
that very reason. But it still comes down to a basic
understanding and agreement like everything, it's only as good as
the paper it's written on.
Dave Jones: And this is
Adam Curry: this wood. It's not protecting against it really
doesn't protect you against anything except someone using it
and not passing on any payment to you. But we have no cops.
We're never gonna have cops to go out there. But you can say,
Hey, man, this is under the remote item license. So would
you please make sure that you put that into your feed
properly? That's really all that you can do in
Dave Jones: that, so so it's a matter of if you're going to use
this, you need to use a remote value split.
Adam Curry: Yes. And to answer cotton gins question. Yes, the
splits. The splits accomplish this, but it's it gives you a
little bit of backup with a legal document and I think we
should have a minimum requirement and the minimum
should always be baseline 5050. But as you can say, You know
what I'll I'll say I'll settle for or do I want 90%? Now, can
you stop someone from doing it? No, you'd have to bring action
against them. But guess what? This isn't a world. This is
about just making it clear what I'd like and what that I want
this system in play, it's solidifying, what splits are
it's solidifying what the remote item is? Yes, please use my
content in this manner. Here's the requirements that I have. If
you want protection code, ASCAP, BMI, sia EA
Dave Jones: keeps you from built. I think I'm understanding
this now because it was just, I think, kind of what you're
saying is it keeps you from having to build essentially the
exact same structure that already exists exactly. Again,
which which has which will have the exact same problems as the
other system course. It's centralized and, and punitive.
Yes.
Adam Curry: Very punitive. Now, if you think you're gonna get
rich by anyone thinks they're gonna get rich, by all means,
don't have your music played on podcast, don't get it played
anywhere, you know, put it into iTunes and have fun. Good luck.
Absolutely. If you want to have an audience, and you want to
have value returned to you. That's why you're with us. Yeah,
there's not enough room in the world for all the people to be
successful and making you know, quit your job money. Look at
this podcast 180 episodes not quitting any job. For sure, but
I love what I do and I love my truck.
Dave Jones: There's no there's not there's not a the Creator
middle class is just, it's never going to be a thing. No. Well, I
Adam Curry: don't think you can I think you know, touring I
think you can do a lot. You know, a lot of people have a lot
of love for what they do. No doubt about it. I mean, we're an
unrestrictive system where you know, the traditional systems
are all that Why is everything failing because they no longer
control the distribution once podcasting came in distribution
was open Why does everybody wants to the move to YouTube why
because they control the distribution move to Spotify,
because they control the distribution they controlled it
but that's the way it's always work and those days are just
oversee the billion dollar Spotify blue
Dave Jones: at this, this actually sort of tend sort of
tangents into a kind of wanted to talk about that Jack Dorsey
interview. Did you read that? I did. The one in pirate wire.
Adam Curry: I did. I read the whole thing. You bet.
Dave Jones: That he said this has some stuff in there. That
was pretty pretty noteworthy to me. I think they're all so let's
see. The you talking about this? It kind of reminded me of, of
him. He talked some about blue sky. He says, here's one thing
he said. He said what is the anti Twitter? He's talking
about? Blue Sky says what what happened is people started
seeing blue skies, something to run to away from Twitter. It's
the thing that's not Twitter. Therefore, it's great. And blue
sky saw this exodus of people from Twitter show up. And it was
a very, very common crowd. It was designed to be controlled by
the people. But little by little they started asking J she's the
CEO. Yeah. And the team for moderation tools and to kick
people off. And unfortunately, they follow through with it.
Everything we wanted around decentralization, everything we
wanted, in terms of an open source protocol suddenly became
a company with VCs and a board. That's not what I wanted. And
that's not what I intended to help create. Around the same
time I found noster. We don't know who the leader is. It's
like this anonymous Brazilian guy. It has no board, no company
behind it, no funding. It's a truly open protocol. The
development environment is moving fast. I gave a bunch of
and I gave him a bunch of money to them. Okay, so that's, that's
the quote. And he seems to be defining. I've got a few things
to say about this. But he seems to be defining openness as a
protocol that is not backed by any company. To him it if it's
if it has a company and control of it, it's not truly open.
Adam Curry: I find that to be true. This is why I liked
Bitcoin no CEO. Right? This is why I like RSS no CEO. But
Dave Jones: do you think that that's is that always the case,
though? And I'm gonna bring this back around to what we're
talking about
Adam Curry: tell you why I think it's always the case because
it's never been the case. Bitcoin Bitcoin was the first
for me, even though I've come to appreciate RSS equally when you
have something that is truly just a format or a protocol,
either way. And I and to a degree, I think activity Pub is
that as well. These are the things that are being
implemented and used by people because they can, because they
don't need to pay a developer fee or do any of this stuff.
Anybody can do it. That was That was always the the idea behind
RSS and you people will come to me, man now. So do you have your
own plane? We're talking about God, you invented RSS. You
invented podcast, and then a podcast to bro, if we had done
that it would have gone nowhere. No one would be using it. The
whole point is that it just is. It just is.
Dave Jones: And now and when you're talking and he started,
he started talking about licensing fees, and these guys,
NAD that's understand that. But is like blue sky doesn't have
Hold on.
Adam Curry: I didn't talk about a licensing fee. But you mean in
regards to the music stuff?
Dave Jones: No, no, I'm talking, you said, you know, royalty like
fees for implementation. And like developer
Adam Curry: like API access developer, you have to toolkit
and all this kind of stuff. But
Dave Jones: that's see that's in that's where I'm, that's, that's
the interesting issue here is blue sky is a published
protocol. You can implement it yourself just like you can
activity pub. It's a it's just an it's an open specification.
And in that sense, it's no different than noster. You know,
but he has, he's saying he has a problem with it.
Adam Curry: Okay, well, can we separate a couple of things
because I also see stuff in the boardroom being discussed.
There's a difference between a protocol and the implementation.
So when I say activity piled right away, yeah, but there's
all kinds of lib tardes are Mastodon Mastodon is not
activity, pub nostre. The Social Network is not Nasir the
protocol to see the the the mistake, the big mistake of
nostre was the social network. Because only people in this
boardroom and not everybody even understand that there's more to
that than the implementation. So the implementation of RSS was
initially only blogs. I think if you say RSS people still think
blogs, they don't think podcasts, they certainly don't
think music distribution, or audio books, or courseware, or
any of that stuff. If that's the hardest thing we're doing right
now is we're we're moving people away from thinking this is just
for blogs, we're just for podcasting. And this can be for
all kinds of distribution. That's the hardest thing we're
doing.
Dave Jones: See, okay, so he says to backup at the second he
says, he says in another prices. So what if we created a team
that was independent to us, he's talking about when he was at
Twitter that built a protocol that Twitter could use and then
build on top of, then we would wouldn't have the same
liabilities because the protocol would be an open standard, like
HTTP or SMTP. Twitter would become the interface and we can
build valuable business by competing to be the best view on
top of this massive corpus of conversation that's happening in
real time. And, you know, he says, he says, I know it's early
and noster is weird and hard to use. But if you truly believe in
censorship, resistance and free speech, you have to use
technologies that actually enable them to change arise,
blah, blah, blah, because these, those are technologies, no
company or government can compromise. The corporations can
be compromised, and they have been, I
Adam Curry: think there's a difference between Okay, let me
take mercy because I hear what you're saying. I hear what he's
saying. And I think he's incorrect in some things. I do
to Twitter started as an RSS based system. Where and that's
why that failed all the time, because they tried to centralize
RSS, where if they came out of Mike, the first term was
microblogging. So we all had blogs. And it was kind of a
groovy system, because we had a product called Google Reader,
but there are many others. And when that never got to flourish
that business online Like podcast apps that enable that
that created the product out of the protocol. Dorsey is
interspersing, the censorship resistant nature of a protocol
that allows you to communicate with social media, which is a
shit product. Yes, that's the problem. Social media is a
horrible product. It's a horrible product. I can't put it
any other. Now. You take activity pub in the context of a
reasonably close system, like podcasts index dot social, it's
an okay product. And I have an account, just podcast index dot
social, and I have ad server level have blocked certain
instances. And from time to time I go through it and go nope,
nope, I go to the public timeline. Nope. Because I
protect our community. So it actually functions as a
reasonable product for for the mission that we have. But are we
really doing social media there? No. In fact, I've asked some
people I said, Hey, could you not post that here? Because
that's just going to create a whole conversation that has
nothing to do with what we're doing here. It's
Dave Jones: more in podcasting index dot social is more like
just a big version of GitHub discussions. Yeah, yeah. Oh,
Adam Curry: yeah. A little less stringent, I think but yeah,
Dave Jones: it's very, it's just so hyper specific to one to kind
of one topic that it keeps some of the and and your moderation
on the back end. Keep some of that away.
Adam Curry: So what Dorsey's mistake is, in my opinion, this
he is equating free speech and censorship resistant speech with
a social network. No, the hard No, because it's not it's a crap
show, as people arguing, then, you know, it's like comments,
comments, depending on how you on how they're displayed, even
that determines the product of something that can be censorship
resistant. So podcasting is censorship resistant. And it's
but it's very different. And you can use RSS for a social
network, the see what Twitter did in the beginning, but that's
a crap product. Podcasting is a podcast apps are outstanding
product, people like them. People use them. Wherever you
get your podcast, it's a great distribution mechanism. So we
have to, we have to make a distinction between the protocol
and the product. Whoo, there you go.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Well, I think I think and I think that's, I
think that's where I'm struggling with what he's saying
and where I disagree with him is you can have, you can have open
protocols that are developed by private companies. I mean,
that's just the protocol itself. I mean, it's take the iTunes
namespace was open, we're all allowed to use it. It's not like
the it's not like the USBC. Right, but you can't get one
kangaroo.
Adam Curry: But it holds everybody back. Because I like
the podcast namespace. Where there's no, there's no, there's
no other incentive other than just to keep the servers
running. Yeah, and no one. Well, I guess, technically, it's all
it's only as good as the people but when you have a corporation,
corporations have boards, corporations have targets
corporations have to make money corporations have a reason for
existence, podcast index, dot LLC podcast index, LLC, that has
one mission to make itself unnecessary, to destroy, destroy
itself. That is that is our ultimate mission. In the
meantime, keep everything running, but have a backstop. So
if we all keel over, then the servers keep running on AutoPay,
etc. But the mission is to make ourselves obsolete. And I think
we stated that clearly. With all these, all these censorship
resistant things, which protect us mainly from corporate
corporate from the corporate world.
Dave Jones: They said because, okay, he says, He's talking
about Blue Sky says it was the anti Twitter. And he's talking
about how why he left blue skies. So he deleted his
account. He left blue sky. He says it was the anti Twitter
people were literally running from Twitter to blue sky. And
that's not a way to build something successful, sir. So he
says,
Adam Curry: but they weren't running from they weren't
running away from Twitter to blue sky, the protocol. They
were running to the product, blue sky product. Yeah.
Dave Jones: And so he talks about surviving. And this is
where it this is what really, this is where I'm bringing it
back around a little bit because he says, he says, All that said,
I really respect J she's the blue sky. As CEO, she was under
a lot of pressure to survive. Yeah. And he's talking about,
you know, when they started doing moderation and this kind
of thing. It it's like he says, he says it's such a crazy thing.
It seems like the core leadership team at Twitter
around you was just told this is the question the the guy asking
Dorsey the question. He says it seems like the core leadership
team at Twitter around you was just totally opposed to elements
throughout the company from the sales team to the board. It's
almost as if the company were fundamentally in conflict with
itself. He says it was also pretty reactive to what was
happening the world well,
Adam Curry: because sent to be censorship resistant, there has
to be zero financial incentive. And by definition, if you have a
company, you're going to have financial incentive one way or
the other.
Dave Jones: And, and I want this idea, he said that she was under
a lot of pressure to survive as a company. I think you said it
fine, earlier. But I mean, just to state it more clearly. Let's
set a goal to never try to survive as a company.
Adam Curry: No, we actually our goal is to destroy ourselves
that yeah, that's even better. That's the best goal ever.
Dave Jones: If podcast index dies, they just dies. I was
Adam Curry: talking to someone today. And you know, who want to
use the podcasts index as a back end? And which, you know, a lot
of a lot of people in this boardroom do. And I think
because there's a relationship, and there's several years of
history, now, people know what, you know, know, us know, how we
operate, know what we do and what we don't do. And they trust
us, there's a trust, there's a huge trust factor there. And I
don't think we've ever violated that trust. And I don't know,
there's just that we're just, we're good guys, now. But
someone from the outside says, hey, you know, so what happens?
If podcasts index goes away, there goes my business, because
I'm trusting that to be the back end. And I always say, Well, let
me tell you, first of all, we have $28,000 in cash in the
bank, and that money is on auto pay than that. And you know, it
costs real money to keep everything running every single
day, every single month. And we're expanding, and we'll need
more over time. But in general, we think three to five years,
this, if we got no, if the money stopped today, we could have
three to five years, it would continue, there'd be no extra
development, et cetera. But that would be it. Dave and Adam,
don't take any of that money for personal use. But I said within
that three to five years, we hope that there's just an index
space is just out there, then and you don't have to rely on
us, it will be just like, Tor, you know, or hash space, or
whatever it is, it will be, it will just be the way to get in,
there will be will be the way to get it out will be and this is
what things like pod ping and activity pub and we're figuring
all this out and things will know it's our mission, it's our
ultimate mission to make ourselves obsolete. So
podcasting will just be it won't be a place where accompany it
will be podcasting. It's just there, tap in
Dave Jones: it, to podcasts and to 1.2 point oh will survive
because it doesn't need any money. Right? The indexes,
podcasts index does need money. And if and if the market
determines it should die, then
Adam Curry: it'll die. That's fine. It's not gonna, it's not
gonna. And
Dave Jones: here's why. And here's what happens that the day
that the day that that does happen, I cut everything down to
the bone. We can run, we can run just we can run core services
for about $300 a month. And, you know, with with, with
Adam Curry: restricted restrictions on API access, I'm
Dave Jones: sure right, yeah. And that'll and that'll take
along for a long time. Maybe
Adam Curry: we just put out a database every week. I don't
know. It could be any number of things. We could
Dave Jones: do that for I could do that paying for it myself out
of my own wallet. So the unknown I'm not worried about that the
it's just we're you know trying to survive as a company and like
Keep it keep yourself from dying. I mean, that's where all
the bad stuff starts. You know, that's that's yeah, that's where
things start to always go wrong. Yes,
Adam Curry: that's exactly right. It's always goes wrong.
Yeah,
Dave Jones: so I'm just like, you know, the world the world
moves on things go away. So if we are you know, if for some
reason, the the economy just completely The tanked and
everybody's in the funding for the index data. This one we'll
move on. But, you know, he, he said something else about brand
advertising. He said, But this is this. I do agree with him. He
says, I think the core critical sin was choosing the advertising
model to begin with brand advertising is not like direct
advertisements, right, which is more programmatic. It requires
something like a Disney to essentially do you a favor,
because the only because the only players that matter to them
are Google and Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, everything
else doesn't matter. And these are ads, they're essentially
throw away money for them. But we made that choice in order to
go public. Yeah,
Adam Curry: that's right. These are and that was to satisfy the
initial investors and you go all the way back up the chain.
Dave Jones: He said, we needed a model, Facebook's model was
really good. So we came up with an ad program and ran with it.
And I came back to the company a year after the IPO, and we were
seeing a decline in growth. And that manifested in the decline
in ad revenue. So our first focus was to rework the product.
So we were growing again. And then second was to get off this
dependency on advertisement. And when you're entirely dependent
on that, if a brand like Procter and Gamble, or Unilever doesn't
like what's happening on your platform, you're totally
threatened to pull the budget with accounts, which accounts
for like 20% of your revenue, you have no choice. Yeah,
Adam Curry: in that interview, he also says that it was easy
for Elon to fire half the company, because half the
company was in sales. You know, and all and trust me when I say
that the largest military contractor in the world, Elon
Musk, because that's what he is looking at his real businesses.
His mission is not to give you freedom of speech is just the
cost of doing business for him. By the way, he's giving you
freedom of speech, not freedom of reach. That's also in that
article, which is true. And I see that all the time. Hey, no,
no, I get no numbers on this post. You know, okay, fine. I
wonder why. All he's doing is making sure there's enough
excitement and action around x to keep everybody engaged as he
rolls out. His Kwazii podcasting infrastructure is make money on
your writing infrastructure. So he's trying to be substack. He's
trying to be trying to be Patreon, but not really not
really with subscriptions. But he'll roll that out. And it all
comes down to he wants to be your bank. He's got 38 Money
transmitter licenses, he'll have them all. And if there's not
enough action around his his x.com, he'll post something
outrageous to start up again. He just needs to keep everybody
engaged and on Twitter all the time, until he has everything
rolled out so he can be your bank. That's it. That's it. He
wants to be your bank.
Dave Jones: It here's the quote you were talking about. He says
it was a brand advertising business and a brand advertising
business needs a huge sales staff. Over 50 to 60% of Twitter
employees were in sales. Yeah,
Adam Curry: there you go. There you go. But, but But make no
mistake, this is not about Ilan trying to give you freedom of
speech. No, no, no, no. By the way, can I just do a quick
namespace thing here? Oh, yeah, sure. Well, I'm not going to
play the jingle. Leslie Leslie has been emailing me. We got a
long distance dedication from Lesley Lesley says that she is
working on audio books. And she has a request for the season
tag. Which I thought was quite reasonable. Because I'm like,
Oh, by the way we updated season, we got season taxes.
Yeah, but it's not enough. I will quote from her
correspondence with me. I know that most hosting companies
support season numbers. But what would also be helpful is if we
could get a season level art and titles. Oh, she says I think
that would be a great help for audio books. And maybe even for
musicians, as they could put multiple works out as seasons
within a single feed and distinguish between them, rather
than having separate feeds for each.
Dave Jones: I think that's a neat idea.
Adam Curry: I think it's an interesting way to look at it.
And we were just because she says you know, I can't afford to
have a new RSS feed for every single audiobook. So you gotta
Dave Jones: get people to subscribe to. Yeah. Because that
should just be an attribute on the optional attributes,
Adam Curry: optional attributes. So optional image and title I
think is what she's specifically asking for. And I said we
already have titles and titles we have but she wants art. Do we
have because I looked at it. Are you sure we have title?
Dave Jones: We have name you can name a season or you can name a
season. Like as names. Let me go to the GitHub brief thoughts on
point o season man
Adam Curry: that James Kerguelen his podcast namespace.org Sure
pops up at the top of the OGS now I liked that let me see
because I have season
Dave Jones: it's the name attribute.
Adam Curry: Okay let me see
Dave Jones: in the examples like podcast season Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah yeah name equals yes name. So episode art
Dave Jones: Yes. So we just need an image URL attribute and
Adam Curry: hosting companies apparently are still only
offering the old iTunes namespace I guess the number the
season yeah for the season number but the people want names
and name title and image
Dave Jones: so I think we shouldn't want it to get against
people what they will go on it there's
Adam Curry: a customer to customer customer waiting for
you right there. Podcasting 2.0 podcast we deliver customers to
you. You're gonna play a song. Oh yeah, let's do that right
now.
Dave Jones: Thank you for reminding write this up as a as
an issue on GitHub while you're playing while I'm playing the
song.
Adam Curry: Okay, good. I think I got this one from either the
Phantom music power hour I got it from the side street music
podcast another banger for a Friday everybody Tony Salamone
with red light of podcasting live
Unknown: on offense to the sky affair face first into the
concrete.
Logging into my brain
changed and shaped?
Supernatural it's
the days Baby
Adam Curry: Tony Salamone red lights podcasting. 2.0 if you
boost if you didn't boost go back, rewind boost. Tell him you
heard it on podcasting. 2.0 That's a good one. That's a
great song. I love that track.
Dave Jones: Add an image href attribute to the season tag for
SC Have
Adam Curry: you got it in? Alright, you nailed it, I
Dave Jones: get it in, I got it. That's
Adam Curry: how we write one song. And we've updated the
namespace Beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. I love it.
Cool. Good. Anything else for the board meeting here?
Dave Jones: I got some stuff that we can wait. We always push
Adam Curry: every now next week, there's no board meeting because
I'm on the road. I can't do it next week. So that's true that I
need to do is I'd rather go long today. And then
Dave Jones: that's alright, I've got I didn't get much
accomplished this week, I'd planned on getting the resolver
built for the I didn't get much of a chance to code this week.
But I want to get the that we need a resolver for translating
a key send addresses? Oh, you know, so that you can look up
like, David Get out b.com and convert it back to a to a note
Id we need that. But I want to make it where apps like cast
ematic can just send one request for a whole bunch of addresses,
you know, and like we do the resolution for it. You could you
could just do send off like 10 of these addresses, we would
resolve them back in one call. Yeah. And do the caching and all
that nice. Nice. I want to make that easy for everybody for
lists. Yeah, apps. Yeah. But before we put cuz I want to get
that key send address thing into the value recipient tag on June
1. But I don't. But I don't want to do it without giving the
serverless apps a fallback? Yes, as we always do. So so that's
the next thing on my list. And we'll talk about that. Okay,
I'll get it done while while you're
Adam Curry: gone two weeks. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sorry,
everybody. And Alex is working
Dave Jones: on a top secret project for us. So. Yeah. Put
for pod payments.
Adam Curry: Do you put them under NDA? Indie. So we can't
talk about it. So we can't talk about it. And yeah, it'd be fun,
Dave Jones: but sign the document. Here, Alex on this. I
know what
Adam Curry: you'd say sign this. Yes. I was just as I was playing
that song. I'm just I'm just like jamming out to the song. I
remember because the last episode, when you lost power at
the office, and I played tracks for two or three hours. That was
more fun. I had just because we've been talking about I've
been reminiscing My mind has been going back and forth in
history. That was more fun. For me as a music disc jockey than
any shift I ever did on Z 100 The biggest radio station in New
York at the time. In fact, I wasn't. Why because I was almost
it was like it was lonely. You know, you're just talking into
Mica. Hey, I live in New York. But there's nothing coming back.
There was no there was no chat room. There was no booster grams
there was you know, we had requests and so on the back
would take a request and wasn't really a request anyway. We just
pretend to like yeah, okay, this, this is what's next in the
computer. So we're playing this.
Dave Jones: You don't even have Buzzsprout fan mail.
Adam Curry: Let's, let's thank a few people, shall we? Let's use
our own fan mail here. We have lots of live booths that came in
3438 from Billy Bones. says thank you for the boardroom
meetings. It makes me excited for podcasting. 2.0 Well, you're
welcome. And you're a part of it. Billy Bones. We're all part
of the Billy Graham anonymous 3333 We got Mike Dell 1701
hamvention booths from Dayton Ohio. 70 threes, keto eight Lima
Mike Juliet at the hamvention forgot all about that. Yes, 73
is kilo five Alpha Charlie Charlie beaconing every 15
minutes on bar ac 20 meters. We got the heartburn we got the 777
from Sam Sethi. True fans has the remote item license working
for example. She does for example, we have it working for
all phantom power music artists. We have plans to use it with
clips next so you grant a license for other podcasts to
use your audio in another podcast and get paid like music.
Beautiful Sam. Thank you let's let's can we can you post
somewhere short. Just to document how that how that
showed up like hub that pops up so other apps can see it. That
would be great. This is perfect. See, I told you I would carry
this it's so easy. The work is done for me. Done. Shred word
part of the dorsal verse 1000 SATs genuine variety and organic
goodness is King not perfection and sounding like everybody
else. We call it here in the Dorko verse Nashville called
when you stick to the template Amen brother
Dave Jones: That's right is that the is like the NAM when you're
Nashville Nashville sound when
Adam Curry: you're perfect. Last night, this is another another
writing on the wall. So we were going to tune in to our favorite
show. Cheers. We're on season nine, we're almost done.
Dave Jones: Oh, you're close.
Adam Curry: We've been binging. And so I pop open, because you
know, you can get it on Paramount plus through Amazon,
whatever. And right at the top, oh, there's the American Country
Music Awards. Live on Amazon. So we pop it, you know, it's like,
okay. And it was just uncomfortable to watch. It was
so because it's so like, structured and you know, they
have ads, of course. And so it's all tight on a timeline. It's
unnatural. You know, I love Reba McIntyre. But, you know, she's
hosting again. And you know, and it's just, it's they're trying
to make this tight, tight show. And it's this, this, you know,
robotic, doesn't feel like podcasting where it's crazy to
control.
Dave Jones: You know, I hear songs. Sometimes I'll ever and
honestly Taylor Swift's catalog is like this. You just know that
in five years minimum AI will be able to recreate songs this
dinner just exactly like that. They sound no different. They're
just like, like vacuous. Couldn't
Adam Curry: do it already. You can do it already. And there's
no love. There's no soul. It's soulless. Yeah,
Dave Jones: there's, do you know what's, you know? What is it?
Well, so we've been rewatching X Files.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yes. You're done with the with the musicals.
You're onto X Files now.
Dave Jones: Now we're intermixing we're mixing it up.
Now. We've heard we've been watching musicals too. But do
you know what's great about those old shows from 80s 90s?
You don't see any computers anywhere?
Adam Curry: It's all analog.
Dave Jones: That's right people people's desks have like pens
and paper and a phone
Adam Curry: Sam Sam Malone in cheers has a little black book
with all those babes all those babes in it? Yes.
Dave Jones: All the babes so true.
Adam Curry: It's awesome. Blueberry 77 777 member berry
booths for Dave Oh, then we had the phantom power media 10,000
SATs we read that one Dave tell your daughter to apply for bands
at Bitcoin stage in July. Good idea. Eric peepee was sent the
boob boost which did come through 808 CELTA Crayon 777.
Howdy boardroom Dave don't get me started on docking station
firmware. Weekly we are updating those because they are well past
the 12 month mark. The Thunderbolt ones are the worst
culprit so far job security, right go podcast and contests.
We love job security as a chat F with his 777 boosts and I hit
the delimiter There we go. Oh,
Dave Jones: we got a new subscriber $10 a month from
Timothy voice well then
Adam Curry: haven't used that one in a while. You've been deep
fried
Dave Jones: midribs kid right?
Adam Curry: Yes it is.
Dave Jones: That's a little drip this dribbling. We got a Z
that's our only one off Pay Pal this week but we guess boosts
get Steve Wilkinson aka CG works. striper boost 7777
through cast ematic skillet boost. Maybe we can get a John
Cooper screen skillet
Adam Curry: boost. That's our semi striper boost. Yes. Okay.
Dave Jones: We got Andrew Gromit. No 2222 Road ducks hello
and wherever app nice this top secret app I've
Adam Curry: ever tried that thing out. It's amazing. It's
basically wherever Yes, basically a framework of every
everything that we have in podcasting. 2.0 just smashed
into one web app.
Dave Jones: We're gonna get him on the show, do you? Yes, of
course.
Adam Curry: Of course. Of course. Andrew, you're up, bro.
You're up. You're on. You're gonna be on the show. I can't
wait to catch up with him. I can't wait. We got some we got
stories a bit. You hear stories that I have forgotten? No. In
fact, I guarantee you he has stories that I've forgotten.
That'll be a good one. Let's get him on.
Dave Jones: Okay, we got Andrew Andrews on deck. He says he says
this rocks heard on Podcast, episode 179.
Adam Curry: Yes. And Andrew Thank you. He's got everything
set. You know, the wherever app booths come through, and I can
see what song it was for and I think he I don't know that that
yeah, has the reply function working which is great. I love
that too. I love replying to boost i Every morning I come and
say oh, can I reply to this? Oh, can I reply and because it's
split Usually I'm sending people back more than I received.
Dave Jones: You're losing money.
Adam Curry: I'm losing money on it, but I love it.
Dave Jones: To 237 That is the number of unread emails I have
in my podcast index mailbox. All
Adam Curry: right, I'm plugging along, brother. I'm taking care
of most of them when I can. Oh, yeah.
Dave Jones: I'll say Jacob J, K, ob 1234. Booths through pod
verse, he says, great tunes. Thank you, Jake. By
Adam Curry: the way, the the update ability of the dashboard.
Now the control dashboard is great, because now I can change
someone's Feed URL
Dave Jones: that's working for you. Yes,
Adam Curry: yes. And now, if the if the feed is already in there
double, you have to resolve that first. I've even done a couple
of successful merges, which did my head and well did my head and
because I'm like, What's merging into what you know, like, I'm
merging the wrong way. Oh, restore, reset. Okay. merge them
back the other way. All right. There we go. Undo Ctrl Z. is
great. I'm able to I'm actually able to do a lot for people. So
I feel quite powerful with the capabilities I have.
Dave Jones: It will I'll continue to refine that. It's
still rough.
Adam Curry: Give me Give me root access. Give me RM dash RF.
Yeah, I don't I've actually done that. No, yes. Back what own
what folder? Okay, back in the onramp days now. Something
similar. Here's what I did.
Dave Jones: So wait, they get tilde dummy. Somebody in onramp
gave you root access to anything?
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. No, I had root access to everything. So we
had a son with a Unison five maybe. Spark station. Spark
station. Yeah. And Neuromancer was the machines name, I
remember it well. And so there was a ragtag, we had like one
client, and we were just trying to do stuff. And, and, you know,
I was trying to figure something out. And so I go in, and I'm on
the machine, right? So I have root access on the machine, that
I'm seeing all these errors being thrown. And I'm like,
well, there's something wrong here with this sh. So why don't
just RMS H for a second I removed the shell. Nice. was
interesting how we brought that back to life. That was my that
was my big aha moment. Oh, don't give me that access anymore. I
Dave Jones: used to work at an insurance brokerage in it. And
we ran a big as 400 system. This is a this is 1000. Person.
Company. Yes. 400. Man classic. Millions and millions and
millions of dollars of insurance premiums going through this
company. And then all the night everything ran as a batch job as
400 to print all the debt, all the premium notices and all this
kind of stuff. The COBOL we do in COBOL? No is RPG? Yeah, is
the native language on is 400. So it was said the we had a new
guy in it. And he he was just he just needed a job. Like he had
an history degree like he didn't know hardly anything about about
anything with computers. And they hired him. And then like a
week later, all the all the MIS people you know, it used to be a
separate department in my es mi Yes, yes. Yeah, of course, all
the MIS people were like, nobody wanted to stay the regular night
operator guy was off and none of them wanted to stay late. So
they're like, hey, we'll just give this this guy with a
history degree a crash course. There was 400 job management
with RPGA. Yeah, with and so they gave him a 15 minute,
here's a here's how you do this. You run this command, you wait
to this other thing happens. You run this command, and then you
do these things. But whatever you do, don't do this thing at
this time, because that'll screw everything up. And he did that
thing. It two o'clock in the morning. The thing was so
screwed. They had to just start they just had to punt and
restart restoring from backup. Oh no. He started running batch
jobs on top of each other. And deleting stuff. It was a it was
like a almost business ending event.
Adam Curry: And I'm like, what did you think was gonna happen?
Fantastic. Ah, Dave, there's another podcast in here for us,
ma'am. Yes. tales from the trenches.
Dave Jones: Magnolia mayhem, do 7777 to fountain Magnolia mayhem
says there's already a good number of audiobooks on our set.
That's podcasting. Yes, there there are, that's for sure.
Mostly creepy pasta stuff like Tales from the gas station.
Several productions of Bourassa last known position etc. but
it's a foot in the door. I wish I could think of some non horror
examples. But outside of that I just have custom RSS feeds on my
NAS for my own audio book ribs. It's pretty easy. Yeah, either
way. We're already heading in that direction. Right? Oh, it is
creepy pasta. What does that mean?
Adam Curry: It's a good band name.
Dave Jones: Yes.
Adam Curry: Not everybody with creepypasta.
Dave Jones: See, Jean been 2222. Hey, Jean to cast magic. He
says, I think Dave is right about the K God. K God feed
being a podcast l feed. But do any apps actually support
podcast l playlists? They
Adam Curry: will? They will, they will. They will. Because
that that project will that will happen. Somehow that's going to
happen. Someone's going to do if it's not me, it's going to be
somebody's going to happen. Sam Sathya also sent me a very
thoughtful email with all kinds of ideas about that. I'm still
processing everything. He thinks that should be the publisher
feet. I'm thinking the podcast so I think the list is the way
to go. But we're working on it. We're working on it. There's
plenty figured out whenever we will figure it out. Of course
Dave Jones: do stuff, see what works, and then go yep, yep.
Yep, comic strip blogger, the delimiter. Here we go. 23,000
SAS through fountain CSB says, howdy, David Adam. I'd like to
recommend a podcast about important things in life,
literal quote from the last episode. Quote, I am so happy
with my new exercise regime, also called having a job. I
don't know if I'll let you know if I can see my junk in the
shower someday. Unquote. Said Ryan bemrose. The delivery
driver for Amazon's subcontractor from Seattle other
co host is some unemployed Irish guy called Darren or Darren from
a shoe rack Wars era. Check it out at www dot grumpy old Ben's
dot com comma yo CSB. So
Adam Curry: Devora divorce. Darren O'Neill always does the
Rock and Roll pre show complete copyright violation before every
it's the copyright or copyright violation show before every no
agenda live show. And John was ragging on him. He says Darrell,
I'm like Wow, man. The guy has been doing this for years and
you still know his name. You call him Darryl now instead of
Darren. So that's what I think we should just in the knife that
we should play commerce or bloggers jingle. We haven't
played that in a while. Yeah, do it hit a
Unknown: comic strip.
Dave Jones: Comic Strip,
Unknown: Comic Strip,
strip.
Comic Strip. Comics jam comic strip.
Adam Curry: Classic has been around for 15 years that that
jingle probably gets
Dave Jones: the monthlies. Alright Terry Terry killer $5
Thank you, Terry. Silicone florist. $10 Chris cow and $5
Damon Cazal Jack $15. Yarn, Rosenstein. $1 Derek J. Vickery,
the best name and podcasting. $21. Jeremy gerdts. $5. Michael
Hall $5.50. and New Media projections. That's Todd and Rob
$30. Go
Adam Curry: thank you all very much. You know, I read somewhere
I think tally coin. Did they shut down the tally coin shut
down?
Dave Jones: No.
Adam Curry: You wouldn't know because nothing ever comes in
through tally coin. So we wouldn't know. That's right.
Dave Jones: If a tree falls in the woods, nobody's around to
hear it. And
Adam Curry: we'll tally coin have a receipt. Nope. They
won't. Hey, good board meeting everybody. I feel like we we fix
the we saw a lot of stuff once again. That's a board did you
who's doing the meeting minutes?
Dave Jones: Somebody's got it. Somebody's
Adam Curry: got it. My
Dave Jones: name. And Mike's got it.
Adam Curry: Yeah. All right. Brother. Have a great weekend.
Dave.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Have a good trip to Nashville. Yes.
Adam Curry: Yes. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it's going to
be a lot of fun. Okay. boardroom Thank you very much for being
here. Once again. We'll be back in two weeks for another
probably extended edition of the podcasting 2.0 podcast See you
then everybody.
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcasts
index.org. For more information, go podcast.
Adam Curry: Podcasting
Dave Jones: is the anti monopoly