Adam Curry: Casting 2.0 for May 31 2024, episode 181 bucket of
kicks. Hello, everybody. We are back in this little once again
time for the official board meeting of podcasting. Oh,
that's right. Everything going on with podcasting, accept no
substitutes. This is where it all happens. What's going on
with the namespace podcast? index.org podcasting 2.0 podcast
index dot social. We are the only boardroom that plays music
and pays the artists. That's right. I'm Adam curry here in
the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. The man
who you always want to join your pool party say hello to my
friend on the other end the One NOLAN Ponce's Mr. Game Jones
Dave Jones: have been found guilty. Guilty,
Adam Curry: guilty. guilty on all counts. What did you do?
What did you do?
Dave Jones: guilty of being awesome.
Adam Curry: Yes, Dave Jones, you are very guilty of being
awesome, my friend. Awesome. And
Dave Jones: I'm sitting I didn't tell you before the show
started. But I'm sitting next to a bucket of chickens.
Adam Curry: A bucket of chickens. Chickens chickens,
like fried chickens or with chickens. Chickens.
Dave Jones: This is pre pre fraud. These are chicks. They
hatch. Oh, we
Adam Curry: are hatching chicks. Oh, that's so cute. See a little
hot heat lamp and everything.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's a little like this little heat. What you
call it? Sort of like a it's not a lamp though. It's like a It's
a heat. It's like a heat pad. But it's elevated on these
little legs that you screw up and down to raise and lower the
heat towards like, you know to make that a little personal
space for the chickens.
Adam Curry: So not only are you awesome, you're also a chick
Magnus.
Dave Jones: Yes, chick. Beside me. I have 11 Chicks right
beside me in
Adam Curry: a bucket. Has your dog discovered the chicks yet?
That's always fun. We'll see
Dave Jones: they're in the they're in the podcast room
because it's really the only place in the house that we can
kind of lock them up and they it makes sense. So they're they're
right beside you can't they're not peeping real loud yet but
they make them make it go in in a minute. Okay, but there's
there's literally 11 of them down and that's
Adam Curry: so cute. Um, do they know their futures to have their
their necks chopped by you?
Dave Jones: These are, these are egg.
Adam Curry: choppers. Oh, okay.
Dave Jones: We'll keep roosters then
Adam Curry: we'll keep these.
Dave Jones: Yeah, hey, man. Oh, cute. Oh, man.
Adam Curry: So we didn't have a board meeting last week. I was
Jones in a little bit. Although most of my Friday was comprised
of travel to nashvegas
Dave Jones: on Yeah, missed you, sweetheart.
Adam Curry: I missed you too. Darling. What did you do on your
day off? sheet rock Sridhar, I got drunk drywall baby. I got my
flatbed. Well, so we went to the K love fan awards weekend. K
Love is a Christian music's it's a network really stations all
across the country. And they do they do this one weekend in
Nashville at the was at the the Opryland now the good Gaylord
Hotel, which is right next to the Grand Ole Opry and this
which is basically a BioDome.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's, it's huge so that that hotel is
gigantic.
Adam Curry: And but the thing is, is like you never you feel
like you leave your room and you walk out and you and they've got
palm trees and there's rivers and waterfalls, but it's all
inside a BioDome.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's like Pauly Shore is in there
somewhere these you gotta find
Adam Curry: and Pauly Shore of all the names. Probably
Dave Jones: biodome when that is movie but BioDome? I don't think
I've seen it. That's where he had a movie called Biona
wouldn't surprise or something.
Adam Curry: So there's 1000s of people at this event. And it's
all music. I mean, from Friday night, they had a concert in the
what is it the Delta ballroom which I think holds two and a
half 1000 People with and the sound was amazing. I was very,
very surprised by that. And then you have the next day you had
like songwriters, roundtable and emerging artists. And then
Sunday morning, elevation worship played. And then Sunday
night was the actual awards at the Grand Ole Opry. And, man, I
gotta tell you, so first of all, you walk around Nashville, and
everyone's a musician. Everybody's gonna be I mean,
literally, we were in a restaurant. And I said, Look at
this guy who's serving us. I'm gonna say bass player, and I
nailed it. Did you?
Dave Jones: Yeah, this was I forget who I forgot who it was.
Some musician used to say I think Maybe Randy Travis, or
somebody said that like you're the average janitor. Like don't
get too much of a big hit because the average janitor in
Nashville is a better guitar player than you are.
Adam Curry: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And all these guys,
of course, you know, because you really can't make much money
with music anymore. Everyone has to tour consistently, are
constantly and if they don't tour they're working for Dave
Ramsey. I mean, it's like
Dave Jones: Does he have a stranglehold on Nashville for
some reason
Adam Curry: does I mean he has a lot of people working for him.
This operation is a huge operation.
Dave Jones: Does he live in Nashville?
Adam Curry: I think so. Yeah. Thank you.
Dave Jones: What's the place? What's the big suburb outside of
Nashville? All the rich people lives at Brentwood. There's
Adam Curry: Well, there's helped me out boardroom there's as very
face on the tip of my tongue. Now Sir Patrick Koba lives
there. A Frank Franklin Frank okay. Yeah, that's Franklin. And
there's another one Murfreesboro, of course, is
another one. But Franklin is, is where a lot of where the where
the, where the touring musicians live, like the Mercy me guys.
They all live in Franklin. Anyway. And so what you notice
when when they're all on stage play, and there's there's some
real superstar talent there from the Christian music world. Which
is not like hymns and gospel. But it's been you got Crowder,
Matthew West, I mean, these are like rock and roll songs,
Dave Jones: that I'll just in general say that the quality of
Christian music now is so much better than it used to be, like
20 years ago, and it's not even it's not even in the same
ballpark.
Adam Curry: It's almost crossing over with country. So yeah,
totally. And but what you notice pretty quick, as everybody is
writing and playing together all the songs like well, Ethan wrote
that song and that's all I played with him on this and say
it's kind of a small group. And, you know, that's because it's
really it's also the natural vibe is which I would say is the
harder is kind of like LA was in the in the 80s and 90s, where
everyone's just there, everyone's playing that
everyone's writing together. So it's an exciting environment and
no one's making money on their music. We know the problem yet,
which and you know, is a lot of grousing. These artists like you
know, big tour, so they're touring and that keeps
everything alive for them. I say this all in lead up. Because
today on this very boardroom, we will be offering the planetary
world global premiere, a breaking, breaking breaking of
the new Ainsley Costello track, which is a people pleaser. We'll
be playing it later on the show. And the reason why I'm setting
this up this way is because she has, I think three top Nashville
Songwriters who collaborated on this record with her and
Abington and the Costello's put a lot of time into convincing
them that value for value is the way so that you know, they got
their wallets and everything all set up. And so when we play the
track, it would be great if everybody could be using curio
cast or fountain pod verse podcast guru with the stuff that
understands the live and lit, streaming sites and boost
doesn't matter how much you boost, but let's just give them
as many boosts as we can. I want them to have a good experience
if you know what I'm saying. Where's the feed? Where's the
Dave Jones: fee? Or it is I found it index. Okay, people
pleaser here it is. I was just wanting to look at the feed and
see who see who's in it for a split. You know,
Adam Curry: the splits may be on the back end on wave Lake, I
Dave Jones: think. Okay, yeah, it's only going to wave like
okay, but at least I hope so at
Adam Curry: least I hope so.
Dave Jones: There's one Okay, so there's one, I'm just looking at
the value tag. And here there's one split. And it says in the
name of the split value recipient name people pleaser
via wave lake. And then there's an address because of that.
Okay, so Well,
Adam Curry: we are splitting it out back there, I believe. I
believe it's Christian harger And Nathan, dos. Okay. Hey,
Pfeiffer. Yeah. So five versus wavelength. I'm out, bro. All
right, man. If you want to help the value for value, have that
attitude. That's really good. That's the right attitude.
That's really helpful. That's really, really helpful. That's
really going to move the needle for everybody.
Dave Jones: So make artists want to really jump in. They want to
hop in
Adam Curry: and then really get on the D MU train. That's right.
That's right, please. But it was it was very exciting because
there was a lot of people there who were very interested in what
we're doing. And
Dave Jones: did they know about it or do you have to evangelize?
No,
Adam Curry: I had to preach. I had to evangelize Of course.
Okay. Now, this kind of leads up to another thing because I did
have a nice conversation with With, with Jim and Julie this
week, and you know, they kind of flew an upside down flag at me.
Field to mind the pine tree flag, they flew the US flag
upside down. They weren't distress, oh, flag binary flag.
So we had a really great chat. First of all there is, of
course, they are angels, parents, but they're, you know,
they're still trying to figure out navigating their way through
this value verse and trying to onboard people and start a
business, which is what we really need, you know, we have
to create a form of an industry here with the with value for
value music. And of course, I'm only coming from the kind of
radio guy background where what is important to me is that we
can play songs and podcasts and that we have the splits go
through remote items, value, time split, etc. And so they had
a couple of things we need to talk about briefly. Music
license, actually, that's getting pretty close. And I feel
comfortable that we're coming up with a remote item license that
will work for music being played in podcasts. That's already been
implemented in in a in a form with RSS, blue, I believe, and
with true fans, and I think we need to get that license, the
actual license itself on to some place that is where licenses
belong. I'm not sure what
Dave Jones: we have. The phase seven is, is closing tomorrow.
So that's good timing. I can do that as soon as it's ready.
Okay, good.
Adam Curry: They're, obviously they're in for the long haul.
Because things don't you know, just all of a sudden happen the
minute we're all excited, and we'll talk about that, because
things have been happening that are exciting, but takes years.
But the main thing that they were concerned about is wallets.
And I think we need to discuss. Yes, I agree. Yeah. Because it
looks like get Alby is out of the custodial wallet business.
Dave Jones: Can you explain? Please explain if what's going
on with that, because I don't understand. Okay, so I thought
that there was a I thought they were still an onboarding path
through the 2.0 apps, and is that now gone to that's going
away?
Adam Curry: That that is going away, that's my understanding.
And, but maybe even more importantly, is there's also
really no path for someone to easily set up a wallet if you're
a podcaster, or a musician. And so, what the Costello said is
like, but you know, we're only really able to onboard people
into fountain. And fountain, although it's great, you know,
to onboard your your feed, regardless of what your
enclosure is. That, you know, it's it's not it's confusing.
You want to make things relatively easy. And so they've
really been struggling on it. Because of the the the boardroom
was saying, if you can have, you can still send people invite the
getting out of the business. That's my understanding they're
getting out of the business. And they will still work with your
own node, if you want to can, you know, use wass nostre wallet
connected, but it's all stuff that's way too complicated. For
an onboarding. Now, there's, there's two sides to this. So
let's start first, with the easy side, which is the app side.
There are many options now to onboard people into wallets in
your app. And the the one that is the most obvious to me is the
breeze SDK. And by the way, I warned everybody this was going
to happen, we all got really complacent and like, Oh, I'll be
working and then all sudden, whether lb doesn't work, or it's
just it's a centralized thing, you know, it's like, and this is
why lightning service providers have come into existence, which
is what breezes business model has always been. I think voltage
is also trying to set this up. Because the whole point of a
lightning service provider and I've been reading through the
breeze SDK docs, is you really don't need to do much you know,
you don't have to think about as a as a developer you don't have
to think about liquidity or channels all that just kind of
magically appears for a fee obviously. But it really and I'm
seeing testimonials of people saying hey on boarded 100,000
customers through this with just a couple lines of code. So that
sounds optimistic to me, but I think we need to have our both
our well definitely our apps need to look at, at other
onboarding opportunities. Because I think it's, if it's
not already shut down, it's going to shut Alby is not going
to be a solution for us. And so I had some back back channel
conversations, which I don't like. But in this case, the
thing was good, because, you know, so we didn't have like a
whole, a whole back and forth thread on the social.
Dave Jones: Sometimes that's just faster, and it is,
Adam Curry: it is faster in that in that way. And it's, I think,
you can't even get a new wallet through pod bursts. You know, if
you just if you just jump on, just start using it. So if
developers, the app developers are interested in being
continuing value for value, some work will be required.
Dave Jones: I mean, so what's the I mean? I feel a need to
help developers with this. Well, me too, you know, I mean, but I
don't, but I don't know what path to take is the issue. I
mean, that there's,
Adam Curry: well, here's one thing we can do. Regardless of
how you set stuff up, it seems like the one problem is always
liquidity. So the index can help with that, you know, if you need
liquidity and whatever your setup is, but I feel like the
Munis SDK is is a couple of them now that they are the solution,
because all you have to do is just integrate the Yes, I mean,
I'm, hello, this is me, Adam, the developer, all you got to do
is just put the SDK in there, and it works. But I think that
is truly the way forward. So you don't have to worry about it as
a developer. Now, on the other side, on the on the podcast,
hosting side, there's other this this is more of a path, because
I think the breeze SDK, I don't think that's intended for a
hosting company. I mean, it's something you jam into your
apps, right?
Dave Jones: Yeah, so you're gonna have, so you've got to see
you need a you need a wallet on both sides. You need a podcaster
wallet. And you need a listener wallet. Yep. That's that's the
issue. Is that the listener wallet? Is the going to be the
the one that that gets the most direct hit from this? Yes. Off
the bat. Yes. Right. Because they're just not going to be one
available to pick up. Unless, you know, because because the
wallet needs to be on the listener side. So it's on the on
the podcaster. side, the wallet is a much easier thing to to
handle. Because all you just need a wallet that can handle
key send, and you're done. On the podcaster side, excuse me on
the listener side. It's harder because the wallet needs to
integrate with the podcast app. Yeah. Because because the
podcast app needs to be guide it needs to be triggering events
within the wallet. Yes. So that is a difficult, that's a more
difficult problem to solve. And that's why Alby was was good,
because there was a because I had an API and all in all that.
I mean, like, I guess, I guess the ideal solution would be that
there that there's an Alby compatible API? Yes. Basically a
clone of the out of the Alby API,
Adam Curry: and this is exactly why we had our own pay running.
We had Elon pay ramius. And then we shut it down. And then here
we go. Well, well, no, I
Dave Jones: mean, Tim, shut it down. Yeah,
Adam Curry: so okay. Yes, Tim, shut it down. Correct.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So the the, if if there's an ABI API clone that
somebody can layer in front of Elon bits or something like
that.
Adam Curry: So this as I went searching for solutions, and
this may be where some developers can help. I found
that a key send implementation for Alan bits, was actually
created two years ago, now and has been reviewed as recently as
a couple of weeks ago. But it needs I think, two official
reviewers, I've actually put the link into the shownotes. It
needs to know I don't know how GitHub works, but it needs some
reviewers or maybe we need to fork this because here's what
I'm thinking Dave, I'm thinking I'm fine setting up a node for
this and providing these wallets. I mean, at this point,
I don't care I just want it to work. You know, and LM bits is
actually a very, very beautiful system. Because you get a lot of
you know, it has a lot of just as The wallet itself, there's a
lot of things you can do. But it will also pretty much work the
same way that Alby will work.
Dave Jones: This is a strange situation. I mean, just just
just kind of stepping back and looking at this for a minute, is
sort of an odd situation, because you have, at the same
time that you have lightning being implemented on more and
more platforms. I mean, Coinbase is putting in lightning Pay Pal
is putting in lightning stripe is putting in the Bitcoin pet
like, there's, you're getting, there's been a lot of adoption
that is happening very quickly, in response to the increase in
regulatory regulatory, clarity, and ETF acceptance from the SEC
and these kinds of things. So payment platforms are becoming
and exchange platforms are becoming more comfortable with
Bitcoin and lightning. And then you have the players that
provide lightning wallets are just pulling back, like like
Albie, who's the faint like Phoenix wallet. They're just
they're pulling back. And in maybe it's because they don't
feel like they have the chops to comply with the new regulatory
clarity? Well,
Adam Curry: as I as I read the legislation that passed the
House, of course, the last to pass the Senate and get the sign
off from the President. It really says like, oh, you can do
all this, you know, if your pass through, you know, custodial, if
it's the, you know, obviously noncustodial wallets, all of
that is going to be okay. They really want to stimulate the
development of this in the United States. It seems like
it's all very good. But remember, I'll be as German, the
other the other guys are French. And so I think that's where
there's some, some fear, and I understand that it's, and I'm
not mad about it, I'm mad that we have solutions. There's
another thing that's in play here is this noster mania.
Everybody is doing in Austin, Austin, Austin, Austin, Austin,
Austin Nostra, and they're just like, I don't care about Q send
you
Dave Jones: building a social, you're wasting your time
building a social network that nobody wants. Nobody wants that.
Just stop, stop, stop building. The nostre social network is
silly. Nobody wants it. It's everybody has plenty of social
network already in there live. Everybody who's on nostres. Also
on Twitter, what do you need two things. It's just, nobody wants
this crap. Just stop it. Because it's eating up. Everybody's
developer cycles. And they're just spending all of this time
on this complete waste. Like, it's starting to get really
irritating, because there's real problems like this one that
needs to be solved. Like, there's real, like lightning
implementation, dead ends, there are dead ends all over
lightning. And everybody is all the all the developers, these
developers that are that are focused on noster. They're good
developers, these are good programmers, they can be solving
real problems. Instead of wasting their time with this
junk, that it's just silliness. It's complete silliness. And
it's again, another example of the the the Bitcoin ecosystem,
tending to just like, they get going super fast, and then they
just drop off a cliff. But they've completely miss all of
the signs in it and just drive completely off a cliff. Like, we
know one of the reasons I was saying that earlier about
there's all these these platforms are putting in support
for Bitcoin and lightning. Is that now is it is easier now to
onboard people than it's ever been? Yeah. If they had a
wallet, yeah. That's and lightning wallets are like,
super simple. It is, should not this should not be, if we had if
there was enough people working on this, gosh, this would be
solved so fast.
Adam Curry: So that's where I'm thinking we might have to solve
it. I mean, I mean, I know I'm feeling that way too. I mean,
let's just let's fork LM bits and fix it and make it work.
Dave Jones: Well see, you know, here's, here's what I would
love. And I'm just going to say, and this is a little bit of
dreaming, but I am but I want to say it out loud too, though,
because it may not be totally out of the question. When, I
mean, ideally to me, somebody, there would be a bigger player
that can handle this sort of thing like strike. Forget it on
the strike,
Adam Curry: they are doing that. Okay? I'm just gonna say strikes
not going to do it. I'm gonna tell you right now, how many
we've pitched a lot of people in the past three and a half, four
years. Some work, some don't. Jack Mahler's is not good. He
has, he's now selling Bitcoin and eath and Mineiro. And he's
going to go public, he's going to be the next coin base, he's,
he's doing a reverse Coinbase Coinbase is finally delivering
with lightning, he's gone from lightning is going to become a
coin base. That's the it's so obvious to me. And by the way,
he comes from the Fiat world. He's a nice guy, nice kid. But
his parents are Fiat. They're the Chicago commodities gang.
It's all fine. But I'm not putting any, any any trust in
that. guy, he's not going to do
Dave Jones: it makes you think that the so I was having this
thought this morning, actually, as, as Bitcoin develops into,
into just sort of a standard piece of collateral, or a
commodity, you know, standard commodity standard assets and or
collateral with it just it just becomes a theme. And it's that's
what's happening right now. We've, it's sort of our Bitcoin
has outgrown the sort of people that shepherded it initially, it
is, it has outgrown that, it kind of no longer needs, the,
what you might call the maxis, or that that community, it's,
it's now it's just a bigger, it's just a bigger thing. And
because of that, they those, those people don't know what to
do. I mean, they're there, there's no real reason for them
to be out there pumping Bitcoin all the time. And they've,
they've, they're doing silly stuff on the side. And, you
know, I think because, but at this at that, at this point,
though, that these, these things like we, I feel like we could do
something without having to bother with a bunch of, you
know, Ellen URL mafia throwing shade and this kind of thing.
Like, I feel like we could, I felt like we could do a thing,
because I feel like this is just sort of this, this ecosystem has
grown up now.
Adam Curry: And it's a business thing, Dave, I'm happy to do it,
man. I mean, first of all, we've got almost to Bitcoin on our own
node. So we can provide liquidity we have a lot of
income, we get this as a mature node, or node has grown up. It's
a mature node, we can put whatever we want. On top of it,
we have great support from from voltage. You know, there's,
there's, there's many ways we can tackle this. But there's,
again, there's really two ways to two things. And now, there's
also a little bit of that, well, you know, Fountain has VC money,
it doesn't take VC money takes elbow grease to do this. For the
apps, there's some very clear, very well tested solutions. And,
and the green light slash breeze SDK is an obvious solution. And
you can implement it and and you don't have to think about it
wallets are spun up on the fly when your customers need them. I
mean, it will it comes down to, are the apps interested in
continuing with value for value? Or do they just want to hand it
all over to one or two players? That's what it comes down to. On
the on the podcaster side, that's something I feel you and
I probably should be doing. Because it's it's, I mean, it's
just there. I mean, even
Dave Jones: if wait on the podcast or side or the listener
side, podcaster side, because the listener side is where the
real problem is.
Adam Curry: It's both sides. The only onboarding path for
podcasters is fountain
Dave Jones: Yeah, but see, you can have you could, like the,
here's the disconnect the podcaster side.
Adam Curry: This is exactly the problem that the Costello's are
struggling with because because they're trying to onboard
musicians, by the way the people haven't figured out or the
horrible, horrible, horrible, evil people that wave Lake, they
figured it out. They're a host In company with wallets, right,
that's what the hosting company is. That's what I said to and
some of the back channels like, Hey, if you have a problem
onboarding artists because you have to send them to fountain to
get a wallet, and that's complicated. It's your business.
You should be providing that.
Dave Jones: What the issue is, like, okay, so you got fountain,
and you've got wave Lake. You got you got two places you can
onboard a podcaster.
Adam Curry: Yes. Well, before music for music.
Dave Jones: Well, yeah, okay for music. Well, no, I even those
wavelike also, does. They do podcast hosting podcast hosting?
Yes. I
Adam Curry: didn't know that.
Dave Jones: I mean, but but even in that you could go and but
there's lots of things. I mean, you could you could set up, you
can set up, you know, you set up your own. Now I know it's not
easy. I know. It's not easy to set up your own node or
whatever. But, like, the podcaster side, it that's what
that looks like. There are solutions. They may suck, but
they are there are solutions, like setting up your own node.
The listener side with the with the losing of Alby is just a
complete dead end. Yeah, that's, that's what I'm saying is like,
is the listener side is where the supply is, like the supply
of funds. I'm with you. I'm with you. And that is a that is a
complete wasteland at this point. So if you like the, the
solution hat really has to start with with listener wallets,
before podcast or wallets? I mean, because you can have tons
of podcast or wallets. But if nobody can pay you, then it was
what good is it? If there's no if there's no listeners with
podcast? Well, here's what
Adam Curry: music Mama says in the boardroom. I've spoken to lb
it's a general fear of the regulator's not worth the risk
long term for them, they will stay in the game they are not
going away, they just will be going to a node in the phone
approach that you must set up a 100,000 sat channel to start
them it's just not going to happen. That's not going to
happen that people won't do it it's 50 bucks and people aren't
going to say oh here's 50 bucks I'm now a podcaster I'm now
musician right
Dave Jones: and and I'll just be honest with you, Adam I mean it
if you're talking about handling you know funds and all this kind
of stuff to this degree then I don't see where you're going to
have to have intermediaries right then I don't see what the
difference is why you even use Bitcoin mining fee
Adam Curry: Good point. Good point.
Dave Jones: Because if we're gonna have to set up something
where there's wallets and we're moving funds and all this kind
of stuff around I mean, what what's the point I'm with you
just set up you know just you know, do escrowed you know
escrowed Fiat wallets and just be a money mover and that's the
problem with with the lightning ecosystem right now is they
they're out there all they're over there doing Tarot. And in
in the in noster. And in the the promise, the original promise of
lightning is just dead is totally dead. And it's like, I
don't know what to do about it. Well, I'm not trying to be
Debbie Downer.
Adam Curry: I'm just no no, no, I'm with you. And we that well.
The
Dave Jones: like, well, let's
Adam Curry: let's separate out the issues for a second. First
of all, because music mom was looking for music, mamas camp.
So on the onboarding side for podcasters slash music. That
type of solution needs to come from the hosting companies. And
we can certainly help bootstrap it by providing liquidity to
people because we have enough so we can help bootstrap it but
ultimately, it's it's going to be specific lightning service
providers that are going to have to be in that game. For channel
opens and closes and all that stuff.
Dave Jones: Like, okay, let's, if you go back to the beginning,
and you look at why we did this to begin with, it was for two
reasons. Because the progress programmable money allows you to
send people small, micro small amounts of money A without the
exhort without the crazy fees. So there was a it was a fee,
saying, but the bigger issue was a deep platforming so that you
have a direct relationship from the listener to the podcaster
with zero intermediaries. Yeah. And like, so if if I'm going to
if I if I'm hosting a show on if I'm hosting a podcast, and all
my advertisers bail out on me, because I took a position
against a war or something that was not that was not kosher,
then. And I lost all my money, then I would still have this
other income stream. There was not sort of blockable Yeah,
well,
Adam Curry: she got platform from PayPal or from PayPal.
Yeah.
Dave Jones: So I mean, that was that was the point. If we have
to start putting up intermediaries all over the
place, then.
Adam Curry: Right, but but a lightning service provider is
not really an intermediary, because it's not a custodial
thing. It's it's that self custody. It the lightning
service provider just provides the piping. So it's no different
than having a node voltage, unless you want to call that an
intermediary.
Dave Jones: So, I mean, yeah, see what you mean. That
Adam Curry: I mean, that's exactly what Brees does. You
don't even have to open a channel, you just need to get
your first payment. Then you get your first payment, they open a
channel plus 50,000 sets of whatever that first payment was.
And the channels grow and shrink as necessary. But it does
require some some development work.
Dave Jones: It does. No does. It's gonna hit there too. Okay.
requires work. And the Yeah, I mean, Rando 64 636. Is Brown of
London says overhype. seems promising I mean, yeah, Brown of
London's building stuff. Yeah, that may be waiting Europe.
Yeah, he's building a replacement to Alby?
Adam Curry: Is he doing a drop in replacement with with the
API? I
Dave Jones: don't know how to talk to him about it. I don't
think he is. But he may be able to. Yeah,
Adam Curry: but we just I mean, again, we just need more
solutions. We need more solutions. Then, and this
nostril wallet Connect. I've looked at it over and over and
over again. I can't see making it work. And then there's people
saying, well, why don't we just switch to ln URL? Well, we
looked at that. We'd looked at that early on. That's just not
going to fly?
Dave Jones: Well, I don't see. You know, the we've talked about
the problems with that in the past with the slowness and the
difficulty on the edge node on the edge application. But I
mean, regardless of that, I still don't see how that helps.
Because you're you're Elon URL. I mean, you had the wallet on
both. Yeah.
Adam Curry: So the reason why it's so called helps, because
that's what everybody's doing. All the development is moving
towards ln URL and nostril wallet connect, and everyone's
supporting it with you know, they're supporting themselves
into a hole of doom. You
Dave Jones: know, there again, I get that all that stuff works
fine for the podcaster wallet. The listener wallet. Yeah, none
of that helps.
Adam Curry: Yeah, but there's a solution. There's a solution
right there today it does keys and then it can work you can
implement it. I don't believe there's any costs except for
breeze takes, you know, a piece for the setup.
Dave Jones: Let's have a look at it had to get back in there and
look and look at the you know, it's it. It is a gut punch when
you think some of these things are solved problems, and then
they come back. And you're like, Well, I guess it wasn't a solved
problem. Well, no,
Adam Curry: but I also think it's, it's our people really in
it. You know, our, I mean, I use podcast guru and I still have an
lb Wallet. So that works great. Sometimes I switch the pod
verse, sometimes they use a fountain. But if people aren't
in it, then they won't support it. And then you know, then it's
all gonna go to a couple of players. Right, which is fine. I
know what I'll be promoting. Because I believe in it. I
believe in it, Dave.
Dave Jones: I believe on
Adam Curry: that. On that note. On an up note, the band's in
Bitcoin 24 Nashville is it will be held around the same time as
the Bitcoin Conference. It'll be Let me see. Oh, it'd be at the
they have a Embassy Suites who have generously donated space
and service staff to phantom power media. And they're going
to be hosting just a ton of bands. And they're going to set
all of the all of the bands up with with wallet somehow. They
may be fountain wallets, but the most of them up with something
somehow. And it's going to, they're going to do just these
live shows. And I'm pretty sure they're set to go with a live
stream, which will switch the value blocks as they go. What I
would like to appeal to Eric P P. I don't know if he can do it.
But I'd like to appeal to Eric peopIe. If there could be a heli
pad version. This is what I'd be looking at how LeapPad version
that can display everything that it does now because I love how
love how it looks, how it you know, how it comes through. With
a live stream, so just a page you can send people to and there
it is, you know, so there'll be a split to this one node. And
this one page just displays all the booster grams that come in
with the live because there'll be video, live audio and or
video, so that people can be sent to a page to be a part of
the bans and Bitcoin by remote, so obviously, in all the apps
for sure, because it'll be a feed so it's in all the apps.
But then there's one page, you know, like the guys are always
doing like these crazy pages that the blueberry did for 12
rods, you know, a page we can see stuff happening, I don't
care if it's who does it, but someone needs to do that. Yeah,
and then that'll be the same page they'll display in the
venue on screens. So people can get a real experience of the
round robin of it'll say use these apps to participate to
boost etc that needs to be created.
Dave Jones: Can I add that I would like to add something to
this for and this is this is the Costello's they're putting this
on okay let me add something to that part. Part of the part of
this event needs to be a explanation of the problem that
we just talked about are sort of an appeal an appeal I'm sorry an
appeal to Bitcoin developers who see the vision for for music and
by virtue of that podcast as well. So an appeal and appeal
through this event that this is only things like that event are
only possible and only work and are only successful when there
are listener side wallet solutions. Yes. And because of
that we there needs to be more people jumping in that game. I
mean, that's because I feel like because what will happen the
reason is good to have an appeal at a place in an event like that
is because if there are no listener side wallets, there's
no there's no event right there's no event is won't
doesn't work. There's just simply no event right? Because
there's nobody to pay you so like that's here's here's what
I'm leaning on though like where my mind is keeps shifting is
that there has to be we have to get some success Let me see how
I want to explain this. Um, I'm perfectly happy to build
something but we can't build everything.
Adam Curry: Yes we can. DAVE
Dave Jones: Yes, we can. But we can't you know, we can't build
everything. And the the ideal thing that would happen here is
that Bitcoin some bitcoin. Competent developers get peeled
away from noster the naast the master senselessness, yes, and
begin to provide to build an actual solution that people
really care about. That can actually solve a problem. Right?
So I mean, like this is this is probably the fountain fountain
also benefits from there being an an ecosystem of lightning,
infrastructure podcasting infrastructure outside of it. Of
course, if if fountain becomes the only place this stuff is
happening, fountain will be less successful. That's not going to
help them either. So everybody fountain wave like everybody
did, like the and I use them as examples of, of sort of, not
silos. That's not what I mean, but like sort of islands that
are that have built something that can be self contained, if
necessary. That does, while that does work. It's not beneficial.
It doesn't it is not a healthy ecosystem for them to exist that
way. They also benefit when there's a healthy ecosystem of
lightning payments going back and forth through the podcasting
through open podcasting. And so this is a this is a thing that
we all need to happen.
Adam Curry: And I would I would point to on one hand, for
podcasters, I would point to wave lake as a successful
formula. They take 10%. Yeah, no one seems to be complaining.
Now, it's simple. I got it, I got my hosting, we got
everything all in one go.
Dave Jones: Because as we said before, your alternative is
Spotify, where you get 0%. Right? So if you're a pod, if
you're a musician, and you get 90%, that's 90% More than you
had before.
Adam Curry: Exactly. And you bet you're right. Everybody, we need
much more, much more going on. And it has it just has to be
simple. It has to be simple to onboard people. Because we're a
long way away from people setting up nodes and liquidity.
There's just no way. There's no way.
Dave Jones: If you're an if you're a podcaster. And you see
that you are a music or a musician. And you see that, that
you can have some success within within this within that the
podcasting world as let's say, as a musician, like Ainslie,
it's not too big of a lift to set up, you know, to set up a
node. It's not the end of the world. Yes, it's a little
difficult, but it's not the end of the world. But if you're a
bit if you're a listener in the app,
Adam Curry: it's world ending. Yes, that's obviously yes.
You're just even even going somewhere else to get a wallet
and connect. It is a big lift. Yes, like, what am I doing now?
Dave Jones: Yeah, exactly. Because you're having to, like,
on the podcaster side, you just set up a node, open a channel,
you're good to go. On the on the listener side? What do you you
got to KYC? yourself, you got to do all this stuff. I mean, it is
it's just, I'm not going to keep beating this horse. But the
listener side is where all the problems are. And, and I will,
I'm glad we discussed this, I will start looking in in
brainstorming this for a potential solution. We'll we'll
talk about it. And but you know, I do want, I don't think we can,
I don't think it's realistic for us to have to build for us to be
able to build and maintain everything we do. Other because
the other problem here, here's the other issue. When we build
it, it tends to dissuade other people from from building
things. Good point. You know, I mean, like, it's almost
detrimental to the ecosystem when we build it. So yeah, I
don't want that to happen, either.
Adam Curry: No, no, I'm with you. I'm with you on that. Well,
I, again, I'm just I've looked at the docs over and over again,
of the breeze SDK, it seems like a very elegant solution. But
it's not a drop in replacement. I don't think it's it's a huge
lift. But there's work is required. But you know, it's
something that is self self custody of your of your user.
You know, they they own it, you don't have any responsibility
over it. And you don't have to worry much about it not working.
I mean, they've been in business for a long time. Yeah. And
there's others who are either doing this or we'll be doing
this because it's the business model for lightning is the
lightning service provider. It just is the business model.
Dave Jones: I mean, it is, well, Nathan asked is the breeze SDK?
Is that mobile? Only?
Adam Curry: I believe so. I believe so. I think it is, is
it? I think so. But block block has a has their own version.
There's lots of versions out there, of this idea of the
lightning service provider idea. And it has been my understanding
that that's what voltage was going to be doing as well, I
don't think there's far along and they were going to be doing
it more for, you know, with air flow product or whatever. So you
can just get get inbound liquidity on demand. But you
know, but what is, and again, that's not, that's probably not
going to work for the for the listener side, but I'm with you
on that there's a huge opportunity for the listener
side, make it easy for apps to integrate, or at least, you
know, make something available. And the apps will put it in if
if they're interested in being part of the ecosystem.
Dave Jones: The other problem with us doing it is I don't, I
don't like I don't like the way it looks.
Adam Curry: I mean, I'm with you, because it
Dave Jones: makes it look like it's like all of this is just
us. And I don't know, I just liked the separation of, of
seeing that other people are doing stuff and making making
money off these things. And it's not. Yeah, it's not us, you
know? Yeah. Well, but again, I don't want to make money off of
this, because it's not. I mean, if we have to, if we have to, we
have to, but I don't, I don't want to do it. The way that
makes me think
Adam Curry: you're so right, because the whole reason we kept
LM pay going because the index paid for it was Yeah, to make
sure that, that we bootstrapped it and then everyone just went
Oh, great. And then no one built anything.
Dave Jones: Yes. As the summer says, it's it's it's way he says
his wave Leakey for Pei Pei to offer wallets and the index and
namespace Yeah, I
Adam Curry: agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree.
Dave Jones: But, but we could we could build something as a
reference, I guess, and then say, okay, we're not somebody
here. Somebody else, please run this, I guess. And I don't know.
Adam Curry: How to think about it. Yeah. All right. Well, thank
you. Should we play a song now just to get our heads clear,
Dave Jones: though? Yes. Is the world premiere this is it's not
Adam Curry: just world premiere. It's planetary premiere, my
friend, galactic galactic galactic premiere, but I really
want everyone to get ready. I really would appreciate it. If
you boosted this song. No matter what the amount is, we just want
as many boosts as possible I'm actually going to close the
channel so doesn't interrupt the track. So we can show these
musicians who are making nothing on Spotify. That value for value
has a place in their life
Dave Jones: that I set that up right. Oh, you nailed it. Okay.
So
Adam Curry: here it is a people pleaser Ainsley Costello, this
is the planetary premiere everybody
Unknown: was watching.
Adam Curry: You can break through it no more mistakes
Unknown: going down.
Back Relax
Adam Curry: yo, nice that's what we call an ending All right,
thank you all very very much.
Dave Jones: I guess people were pleased and yeah, it was done.
Yes. People were pleased.
Adam Curry: And everybody boosted. I even boosted.
Everybody boosted. Everybody boosted. Good job, everybody.
Thank you. Thank you. That's Ainslie with the Nashville
collaborators. Let's make them happy. If you're listening to
this as the podcast, you can always stop, go back and boost
again. It all works. It's magic that way. It's magic.
Dave Jones: The track I like it. No, I
Adam Curry: was great track. I'd it's it's Poppy, man.
Dave Jones: It's good to hear a new Ainsley track.
Adam Curry: Yes, it is indeed. Been well. My left ear kind of
blew out on
Dave Jones: Oh, crap. Yeah. It blew Well, is it smoking? No.
Adam Curry: So like, it happens to you when you get to my age.
Dave, you'll know what I'm talking about.
Dave Jones: You get the high pitch squeal.
Adam Curry: Thank God no, no, thank God. Although at night
when I'm in bed, I do hear just like General was that from? No,
it's age.
Dave Jones: Old man old dude. Yeah, just
Adam Curry: an old by the way, the bands and Bitcoin. They also
have I put it in the show notes. They have a geyser fund
fundraiser. I also boosted that before because they obviously it
cost money. So they're looking for help on setting up that
event. So that's all in the band.
Dave Jones: Lighting. Yeah, yeah,
Adam Curry: I did it. I actually use breeze. It worked
beautifully. So we had a big win today or this week with the
Pocket Casts.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so that said they're gonna support transcript
and pod roll.
Adam Curry: Well, as I was listening to the pod news,
weekly review, I actually heard the young woman what's her name?
Because we pitched this to them two years ago. We pitched the
match two years ago. And she referred to that as Oh, we knew
about this two years ago, because I remember you and I did
a zoom with Matt. And then we met Matt from automatic. They
own their own pocket cast. And we pitched it. And I think I
followed up with Matt. And then we got another talk to the
project leads. And they've started to implement their small
team, but they started to implement but as I heard her
speaking, I heard her slip in V for V. Oh, well, she said V for
v. So they didn't hear
Dave Jones: that I missed
Adam Curry: the Hey, I heard it. I heard it. But this is this is
uh, this is great. This is a great game changer for
podcasting to have a an app of that size to validate that it's
a real thing. It lives in all boats. Very, very happy. Very
happy with that.
Dave Jones: agreed and like they they are ones that could you
know, the thing I want most from Pocket Casts specifically, is
cross app comments over activity pub. Yes. I think they are
positioned better than anybody else to make that happen. Yes.
Because Because automatic
Adam Curry: bots. Yeah, they're all in on activity pub, right
Dave Jones: activity pub. Yeah, they bought that WordPress
activity pub plugins, and they can integrate it directly. So I
mean, they I think they have definitely the resources to go
in and put activity pub into into a yes app like Pocket
Casts.
Adam Curry: And on that note, true fan Sam and, and Benjamin
caster, PA, they're working on integrating their activity
streams through activity pub, which is great.
Dave Jones: You know, a clip. So a clever podcast app,
Adam Curry: only the clever ones now.
Dave Jones: Could could simply follow podcasts on the bridge.
And inhale and just always be up to date. That's right. You also
like you could have a podcast app that that built activity pub
into its core. And then they follow it when you follow
podcasts. It's using the the index to do search. And then
instead of instead of using the API to pull more data, it could
subscribe to the podcast feed obviously like normal, but then
look for updates through activity pub, wait for the push
is basically that you would have want you would have a simple
back end a little $5 a month back end. That just does nothing
at all it was you just have no no it's not even sniffing they
know they there's not even any sniffing it. It just open it
opens up a shared inbox. It has a shared inbox URL through
activity pub. And then it follows into treats each each of
its users as an actor. Do you hear that chicken? Yeah,
actually,
Adam Curry: I just did my headphone offices and on my end
what I have no fear your checks baby's Dave's chicks.
Dave Jones: These chickens are going nuts. I sent you a picture
of them in the bucket. The so you would have you would have
each each listener would be an actor. On your activity pub back
end, in as when somebody follows a podcast it follows the bridge
for that podcast. And then it just waits to be notified when
there's a new episode. By the way, just push it all the way
through.
Adam Curry: Your chicks are cute. What's the bowl with the
Roxanne? What's that all about?
Dave Jones: Well, since they're there, they're so tiny that if
they drown they've they'll drown in the bowl. Yeah. Rocks. And so
they came to the bottom.
Adam Curry: Have you already found one dead?
Dave Jones: No, no. No dead ones. Yeah.
Adam Curry: What's What's the vacuum hose there? What's the?
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's one of the legs that the heaters like
threaded rods with the low heat past. Oh, cool. Yeah. cubes.
They're all up under that heat thing right now. I can't see any
of them. They're just Yeah. Do
Adam Curry: you mind? post this in the in the board meeting in
the boardroom? Oh, no, go ahead. Yeah, that's cool. I want people
to be able to see this.
Dave Jones: But you could you could do that you could build
your app with with an activity pub core. And then not have to
really do any feed polling at all. Period. None. And then
you're already set up with for cross out comments.
Adam Curry: I love it. By love it only clever, clever, clever.
Clever. Has. I have a have a namespace question that makes
sure because if it doesn't do it, we need to figure out how to
do it. And so I've been working on this on this product on this
project to return local radio to Well, so what radio? This all
kind of comes from a couple of things. One is the the cumulus
media 2024 audio scope. Data that pod News reported on
Dave Jones: miss that I didn't see. Well,
Adam Curry: it basically says radios dead. It's not exactly
what it says. But it does say podcast audiences have scale
among 25 to 50 fours, which is very important because the
concept that only young people listen to podcast is clearly not
true. So up to 54 is not in the young person range. As old
dudes, if you listen to podcasts, they are your number
one audio platform, you know so. So podcast, people who listen to
podcasts and that number is increased increasing listen to
32% of their listening time this podcast 22% Is is am or FM
radio. The median age of podcast audience is about 34, which is
actually quite good. Now here's the one that that kind of the
think is interesting because it's happening to all
traditional media distribution platforms. The podcast audience
is 13 years younger than median age of am FM radio listeners and
22 years younger than linear television where audiences have
a median age of 56. TV is what's playing in God's waiting room.
Wow.
Dave Jones: Did you see the average Did you see that? I
don't know if this is same report. I don't think it is that
that listed the average Oh, oh yeah, that's yours. Yeah, MTV
that everyday just. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I know. It's not immediate. It's median age. Not
average median age, but
Dave Jones: average. The median age of an MSNBC viewer was like
70 to
Adam Curry: 70 Yeah, no, no. So it comes on so I believe that
you can't save radio with towers. But what we lost with
radio is local programming. Now why did local program so you
know, a even New York I mean, I've I was in New York for many
years. And the whether it's Elvis Duran on Z 100 Or if it's
the Charlemagne to God, and he's on Z on camera what he's on. But
you know, they're not New York local shows. anymore. They're
syndicated nationally. Yeah, sure. In between songs. Yeah.
It's Elvis Duran, z 100. New York. Okay, sure. But they're no
longer talking just about it's all national issues. And we
still have some like Cody, who works in Kerrville, which is,
you know, old school rock station, the rock of Texas, no,
small signal. We have Hill Country FM out here, but they're
dying. And why are they dying because all the local
advertising has been slurped up by Facebook. And it's
successful. Now, if if you want to sell something locally, it's
going to be you know, it's going to be done on on Facebook and
stuff like that. But we still need local programming. In fact,
we need it now more than ever. So my kind of this thing I'm
working on with some people is to recreate that, too, bring
back local programming. And this is where that playlist thing
that I was talking about two or three weeks ago comes into play.
And I just want to make sure I understand how the playlists
work, because I think I think I'm incorrect, or I was my
assumptions were wrong. Okay, but what I'd like to see, if I
have a playlist, and I put in that playlist, can I put in that
playlist shows? Or do can I only put episodes in that playlist?
Dave Jones: Episodes? Ah,
Adam Curry: what I think I'm looking for, is what an OPML
subscription list used to do. Okay, so if I wait,
Dave Jones: let me let me let me get back Hang on, say, the
remote, the remote item, doesn't it? The remote item allows
either a feed or an episode to be
Adam Curry: it does allow a feed. Right? Okay. So it does
allow a feed but but
Dave Jones: that's it's the context that matters that
dictates what those things are. A play list is expecting items.
Okay?
Adam Curry: Let me explain what I want. Okay, then we'll figure
out how we make it happen. Because it's important to me. So
I'm just going down, it means I'm just going to be hammering
on it. What I want is I want to be able to say I want to
subscribe to Adam curry station. And I can go into a podcast app.
I mean, I can look for Adam curry station. And it'll be
something I can subscribe to. And that station may include
similar to a pod roll. The five shows that I think are great,
but when you subscribe to my station, you will get the most
recent episode from those five shows that I think are great.
Okay. Do we have something that does that now?
Dave Jones: Okay, so let you let you have W, W K. RB. And you're
going to be searching for that state. You know that local
station in your podcast app? Yes. And then when you find that
you're going to subscribe to it. Yes. And what you're gonna get
is a list of the IS is the each episode is a program in their
programming lineup. The last in reverse chronological correct
with the rest recent to the oldest
Adam Curry: correct. And then I'd also like to take a
percentage of that as my radio station on the ministry
Dave Jones: of I mean, off the cuff. That's just a feed. That's
just a part. That's just a podcast feed.
Adam Curry: Yes, it's a podcast. It's a dynamic podcast feed.
Right?
Dave Jones: Right. Yeah. Which is not a problem we did that
with with 100% retro.
Because 100% Retro underpinned retro was live. You know, we we
were updating it every I think it was every, every time the
programming every time the programming grid change to the
next. Okay, yeah, broken. Okay, we updated the fee.
Adam Curry: All right, but it's not a linear radio station. It's
not a stream. It's not a linear radio station. It's literally so
as a part of my syndication, I'm going to be promoting atom,
Adams local station, that I'm going to put up billboards. I'm
gonna say, go to Edit, go to your podcast app, your modern
podcast app and subscribe to my station, because I have the best
programs. And I'll probably have my podcast in there. But I'll
also have five others that I think are and hopefully I have a
relationship with them. But that I think are these great
podcasts. So when you subscribe, you're actually subscribing to
the podcast that I recommend. But the Are all appearing under
my feed my station feed and what you're seeing is the most recent
episode. That's why I say it was like an OPML when you subscribe
to an OPML that's how that would work.
Dave Jones: Okay. So, okay. So what you want to happen is use
is I searched for W ADM, yes assigned, assigned it. And
inside that Thiede is a list of is a are references to other
fields.
Adam Curry: Yes. And therefore, when I subscribe to it. So just
like you described a podcast in 2.0, I mean, and you click on
the podcast and two point o podcasts in your podcast list,
there's a list of episodes. Now you're subscribing to K, Ada M.
And then what you see in the episodes is the most recent
episodes reverse chronological order of those feeds that I have
referenced. Referenced
Dave Jones: feeds Yes, yes. So it's following the trail for
each feed and getting the most recent index sorting them all
background. Yes.
Adam Curry: And then for extra bonus points, I want to make my
station que ADM that I produce, I want to make that sticky at
the top. So my EPS, my most recent episode is always at the
top.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's all just, this is all just
programmatic feed generation stuff like so is there a reason
why you're wanting it? Because, Okay, couple things. Is there a
reason to do this app side rather than back inside and just
surf the generated feed? No.
Adam Curry: Back end side is perfect if I was just a little
confused, because we had publisher feeds and, and and
playlists I'm now now that we're talking about it's I love you so
much, Dave Jones. Now that we're talking about it, it's just a
back end generation. I think so. Perfect. That's even better.
That's that's the best. Yay. I love it.
Dave Jones: I love it. Like, there can be a feed like a
publisher feed like yeah, this would be you could create a
publisher feed or a playlist of feeds, but not in but here's
Adam Curry: the trick. Now, here's the trick. The trick is,
when you subscribe to K ADM, my feed, and you listen to one of
the episodes, I want a piece of the split, and then I want the
remote item of that episode to flow through. Does that make
sense? So just just like podcasting, 2.0 we take 5% We
play Ainsley. And the rest is all split however she
determines.
Dave Jones: Right? So you're okay, so you're wanting K ADM
gets gets a percentage and the rest goes to the source? Yes,
correct. I think I think the best. I think honestly, the best
way to do that is just with back end fee, generate Perfect,
perfect, you've solved my problem. The back end ingests
the playlist and then assembles a feed in dynamically every so
every few minutes or however long many times it takes it
assembles a feed with the proper value recipients and all the
stuff in it. Yes. Yes. So that so that the app doesn't have to
do a ton of
Adam Curry: work. Yes. The app just does what it does. already.
Yeah.
Dave Jones: Perfect. Yeah. And then and then there's just
centralist or there would just be didn't need to be some server
that is doing all these this feed generation and either in
the either hosting is centrally or farming it back out. Yes.
These stations can host themselves. Yes,
Adam Curry: yes. Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Hallelujah.
Hallelujah. Yes.
Dave Jones: All right mag.
Adam Curry: I'm very happy about that. I am tasking myself with
creating 1000 local stations in America.
Dave Jones: Yeah, can Nathan's right Katie and would be a feed
filled with items pointing to third party hosted enclosures,
but includes a value station in cut. Yes. That's it. That's it.
And which is basically exactly what we did for 100%. Retro.
Adam Curry: Okay, that's it. I've got it. I'm done. I'm
happy. I am a super happy man. Because we don't have to change
anything.
Dave Jones: The only thing the only thing that has to happen
here are the the the local station the local stations. Need
to figure out their playlists. Yes,
Adam Curry: exactly. By the way, our Marcus Yes, he says sounds
like a man who just got back from Caleb. Yep, you're right.
You're right. That's exactly right. Exactly. What Oh, this is
perfect. That is perfect.
Dave Jones: That was me happy. That doesn't Yeah, that's that's
that doesn't sound like a difficult project.
Adam Curry: I did want to mention just because I love the
guy so much this guy Fernando. He has made this pod mobile
project product, I should say. Pod mobile things that pod
mobile. Fernando Fernando is I What'd I say? They said,
Fernando. Yeah. Pod mobile Missy. It said What's it that it
said in this email? Now I've been I've been talking to him
ever since for about a year now. It's audio sigma.com. And he has
made a device. Which
Dave Jones: Oh, that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And I've been
testing
Adam Curry: and now he's moved it to with a DSP. So it's
digital signal processing. And this is a device that you just
plug in a mic, you plug it into your phone, or you plug it into
your computer, and it just works. And the sound of this
thing is Adam curry approved. He has because this Dean he calls
it a D noiser. So you literally just Oh crack your mic, you
don't talk the press the button until the back it's kind of a
noise gate filter and all in one. And the preamps on this
thing aren't just like delicious. They're delicious.
And you could mix in you could mix in your your your computer
or your phone audio. And you can also use it with someone on
remote you know, so it's got a where they call it a loopback
interface. It's dynamite
Dave Jones: and it's no is this is this road caster pro
replaceable.
Adam Curry: It depends on what you're doing. I think so yes. I
mean, well that well road caster do Oh replaceable, I would say
because it he has a single single mic version as well.
Which is the mic hero I think it's called. Yes. But you know,
so you'd have to have your if you do sound effects and stuff,
you have to have a soundboard something that's on your
computer, or on your phone. But even it's powered by USB. You
don't even plug it in. I mean, I've sick. I've been I've tested
it. And I've had three generation of units here. And
this thing is just it is amazing.
Dave Jones: This really is the the what was that device that
you Yes,
Adam Curry: the Catchmaster probe. This is what I was trying
to build back in the day. When I was coming out at at road caster
prices. It was just too expensive and was complicated.
But he solved a lot with this and it's it's just a dynamite
device.
Dave Jones: Me 289 For a single mic. That's pretty doable.
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That is it. He's got a lot of
smart things to views. If you scroll down, you see the back.
Those are touch buttons. So it's capacity capacitive buttons. So
it's not actually a physical button but you touch it and the
adjust that. The LED turns different colors for your
equalizer D noise SiC is the right word. It's it's an amazing
device. And this guy he comes from I think Brazil came to
America with 100 bucks in his pocket. He just been grinding
away at some job and he's been building these in his spare
time. I'm so proud of him. He's really doing something
beautiful. And he's the engineer guys everything these marketing
He's He's everything. Yeah, the mic hero DSP. That's the one.
That's the single mic version.
Dave Jones: Does he know how to create Alby Wallace?
Adam Curry: You don't know these Fernando.
Dave Jones: Need to have a call with Fernando.
Adam Curry: Make sure it's Fernando Now why am I think it
is Francisco
Dave Jones: it's for NASA
but your bus route has that just want to mention Buzzsprout has
that they came out with that podcast backup thing. I don't
know what they didn't like what is that? Like you can point you
can point their tool at a at your podcast and it'll back it
up like backup all the audio and all that kind of stuff. Just for
safekeeping that I just wanted to point out heard about that
I'm just gonna mention there's a tool that we built a long time
ago called sucky. They'll do the same thing from the command line
so you can just like pointed basically just use key space and
then and then the feed URL and it'll suck all the the
enclosures down if people want to automate you know downloads
them an automated backup to like your own to your own storage or
whatever. Completely there's a bunch of like it's a must have
happened last couple weeks Stephen crater added episodes.fm
and podcast AP links to the website.
Adam Curry: I use episodes FM all the time. I unfortunately
can't use it without an iTunes ID so I have which I think he's
working on. But man do I love that I see a lot of uptake.
Because I just send out the or even when it's The if it's a
live show I always said that on episodes FM Ling and people like
oh, this is great. I can just select my favorite app and then
it remembers it or I can play it right there on the page is
fantastic. What a smart smart idea.
Dave Jones: Have you seen the podcast a paid link?
Adam Curry: No,
Dave Jones: let me see. So if you go to you know, just any
podcast on podcast index.org There's a there's a follow
there's like a little little thing next to the lightning icon
where you can click on it it'll take you to podcast AP to that
feed and you can you can follow it in Mastodon or whatever your
Adam Curry: upline. Oh, cool.
Dave Jones: Yeah, cuz we're gonna, you know, we're gonna put
this onto the page itself, then I figure I mean, this Steven
already built it. So I'm like, we'll just link out to that.
Adam Curry: So he has a mystery. Oh, okay. So there's episodes
dot F m link there as well. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Nice. So you can click out to eight to either one
of those, like the replacement for the Chiclets. Yeah, that
keeps us from having to like, have all those stupid badges.
Yes. Yes, Nathan. Nathan says he's up to 99,000 500 million
monthly active users
Adam Curry: already is. That's all from me. You're welcome.
He's even used the ma us so boy.
Dave Jones: Yeah, the I don't know. What do we
Adam Curry: you listen to our hatless and we got to do our
hate. Listen. Oh, you wanna do the hatless? Yes, of course. The
hate listen was great this week. It's a thin line between love
and hate people.
Dave Jones: Yes, but where's my clips? Out there? Okay. I've did
not have a copy of my own clips to look at. So yeah, the I was
I've been reading this book showing the full room you open
this up when anyone there this? I've been reading this book
called. So do you know a guy named Matthew Crawford?
Adam Curry: No. Can't say that. I
Dave Jones: do. So he wrote a book called shockcraft as
SoulCraft that
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, we've talked about that. I think this
is the guy who didn't he build a motorcycle or something or did
something? Yeah, he's
Dave Jones: a motorcycle mechanic. Yeah. So I know about
him. Sure. Sort of motorcycle mechanic turns philosopher type.
I think he was a journalist and stuff in the past. I'm not sure.
I don't know all of his history. But shop craft is SoulCraft is
his big work. But he also wrote a book called Why We drive which
is a car book. He's a gearhead. So this is a car book that I was
I was reading. I was reading him. And he was reading this
book while we drive. And currently, in a couple of days
ago, he said this. He said future futurism which I like, I
like this term futurism. Because it's, it's got a you know, you
can't really say that word without it being a little bit.
tongue in cheek like, you know, these guys, this is there's some
shading is there. futurism is a genre of mythmaking that seeks
to generate a feeling of inevitability around some
desired outcome. A picture that is offered as though it were a
prediction, this is a good way to attract investment. And
reciprocally, the flow of investment dollars is a good way
to attract public speech of fires, like journalists, thought
leaders, etc. Who will lend their voices to the chorus of
inevitability, one must accept the future rather than cling to
the past, which often means simply accepting the present,
which presently exists, that's perfectly adequate. Do you
prefer to wallow in the comfort of self delusions of nostalgia?
Like, I like this description, because this perfectly described
he's talking. He's talking here about Uber. Yeah. And how the
they're not really a technology company. You know, the thing,
like it's sort of it always reminds me about avoid when you
said that Apple and Google and these are not really technology
companies, they're law firms that make some apps. Like
that's, that's essentially what he's saying about Uber is like,
Uber is not really a technology company. They're a they're a, a
regulatory buster. They're more of a political entity that
happens to make a profit that happens to make an app to enable
their pulling up sort of political and financial means.
And you know, the whole the whole thing is there. The Uber
model is never going to make is never going to turn a profit is
this We all know that or at least I hope we do. But it also
ends up creating just like Airbnb. It creates tons of sort
of like what you want to call supply side bloat. The reason
I'm bringing this up is because I think this same thing has
happened with Spotify. I read barabar letters article on
Spotify as leaving the IB. And I think basically, Spotify is
essentially done the same thing to the podcast industry to a
certain degree. You have companies like Uber and Airbnb,
which have created tons of supply side bloat, like fueled
by this exit strategy, desire combined with political sort of
us versus them marketing. I mean, that's the secret to
technology to tech industry innovation. Now, if they
Adam Curry: even had a walled garden at the most recent
podcast conference, you literally couldn't come in.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. And so the so you now what you have is
you have a because of Airbnb, you have a housing market where
most of the houses are not most, but a humongous percentage of
the houses sit empty all the time. 25%
Adam Curry: of our housing supply in Fredericksburg, Texas,
is air b&b.
Dave Jones: And I guarantee you at any given time, there is a
great majority of that
Adam Curry: is empty, except on weekends. Yep. Yep, it's
literally
Dave Jones: empty all the time. And he makes the same. He makes
the same statement about Uber. He said, most of these Ubers sit
empty all the time. That's how they that's how they maintain
the illusion of tap a button and have a car show up. Yeah. Is
because most of the time they're empty. They're just sitting
doing nothing. It's created this huge bloat and the same thing is
happening in AI.
Adam Curry: My favorite topic, yes,
Dave Jones: it same thing is happening with AI and the Bloom
is starting to come off the rows on the whole thing when you have
the hatless and on the media. Looking at it, which and so a
couple of things he what what got me is I had read this thing
in in while we drive about the about this futurism. futurism is
a genre of mythmaking that seeks to generate a feeling of
inevitability around a desired outcome. And then on the media
talks, there it is about inevitability. All this
Unknown: while technology companies push the public along
a path that they and members of the press say is inevitable. We
know that generative AI that chat GPT is the image
generators, things like that are much more computationally
intensive than the types of tools that we were using
previously. So they require a lot more computing power. And as
a result of that Amazon and Microsoft and Google are in the
process of doing a major build out of large hyperscale data
centers around the world in order to power what they hope
will be this major demand for these generative AI tools into
the future. That obviously requires a lot of energy and a
lot of water to power it.
I think we have paths now to a massive energy transition away
from burning carbon.
And so in this interview in January, with Bloomberg, Altman
actually directly engaged with that when he was asked about it,
does this frighten you got this because the world hasn't been
that versatile when it comes to supply. But AI, as you have
pointed out, it's not going to take its time until we start
generating enough power,
it motivates us to go invest more in fusion and invest more
in North new storage. He
said that we're actually going to need an energy breakthrough
in nucular technologies in order to power the vision of AI that
he has, he didn't kind of hesitate and say, Well, if we
don't arrive at it, then maybe we won't be able to roll out
this vision of AI that I hope to see but rather that we're just
going to have the power with other you know, energy sources,
those often being fossil energy sources, and that would require
us to geoengineer the planet in order to kind of keep it cooler
than it would otherwise be because of all the emissions
that we're creating.
Adam Curry: The Messiah has spoken
Dave Jones: Yeah, the these people are insane. Yes. They are
literally they are insane. He's what he's saying is we're going
to need so much Jeep like forget Airbnb. Forget the way the
wasted space of Airbnb forget the wasted gas and time of Uber.
This is going to be so much wasted GPU compute, that we're
going to need to RIT to re engineer the world's energy
systems to be able to handle the massive the massive quantities
of power needed for Google to tell you that you need to put
glue on your pizza. that that these people are insane. And
they're also this. So can
Adam Curry: I just stop you? Yeah, just looking at Sam
Altman, just if you remove yourself from a moment from the
technology realm, he's acting insane. He's acting like an
insane person. Just talk to him. Look at him. He acts like he's
nuts.
Dave Jones: He's got dead eyes. Yes, yes. So the this emergent
properties, idea that it's awesome. What they did here
because they went back and checked on some of these. Some
of these things that we've been told. And remember, this is all
about the tech industry is all about is futurism. It's all
about the myth of inevitability. And one way you do that is what
he just did by saying, okay, look, this is so this is so
crucial to humanity, such a game changer, that we're going to
have to invent cold fusion, or whatever to to power these
things. And then the other part is, look, this, this technology
is doing things itself, you can't even stop it. Like it's
got. It's got emergent properties that we don't even
understand. So one of
Adam Curry: them. Oh, man, I had it so perfectly timed. Oh, yeah,
sorry,
Unknown: one of the biggest problems, there was not just
what Sundar Pichai was saying, but that the hosts of the
program, who were, you know, interviewing him and conducting
this, we're not really pushing back on any of these narratives
that he was putting out there
of the AI issues we talked about. The most mysterious is
called emergent property Scott Pelley of 60 minutes, some AI
systems are teaching themselves skills that they weren't
expected to have. For example, one Google AI program adapted on
its own, after it was prompted in the language of Bangladesh,
which it was not trained to know. After
the peace came out AI researcher Margaret Mitchell, who
previously co lead Google's AI ethics team posted on X saying
that according to Google's own public documents, the Chatbot
had actually been trained on Bengali texts, meaning this was
not evidence of emergent properties. Oops.
Adam Curry: Good show title though. emergent properties. I
like that.
Dave Jones: The other so that, you know, that was the one that
we that we heard from the 60 Minutes interview, they sort of
propelled this, there's, you know, it's like there's always
this, there's always this media propellant. Like with COVID. It
was a poster home on Rogen. That lit the fire of COVID. That that
60 minutes thing, I think, was a flashpoint that lit the fire of
MLMs. But that, you know, so we everybody knows about that one,
but the the other one you hear all the time is it passed the
bar exam. This is a classic. Yeah, and that was BS, too.
Unknown: Here's another exaggeration that made its way
into a TV news piece. The latest version chat GPT. Four can even
pass the bar exam with a score in the top 10%. And it can do it
all in just seconds chat GPT four scored in the 90th
percentile on the bar exam. Was that legit?
Yeah, so that claim was debunked recently,
Julia Angwin is the founder of proof news. She recently wrote
an op ed for the New York Times titled press pause on the
Silicon Valley hype machine.
And MIT researcher basically reran the test and found that it
actually scored in the 48th percentile. And the difference
was that when you're talking about percentiles, you have to
say, who are the other people in that cohort that you're
comparing with, right. And so apparently, open AI was
comparing to a cohort of people who had previously failed the
exam multiple times.
Open AI compared its product to a group that took the bar in
February, they tend to fail more than people who take it in July.
And so when you put it compared to a cohort of people who had
passed it at the regular rate, then you got to this 48
percentile. The problem is that paper comes out. It's peer
reviewed, and it's like goes through the academic process
that comes out like a year later than the claim.
Adam Curry: This is if I can just if I can interrupt your
flow for a second. This is part of the reason why I believe the
twit network is dying once phones came out, although what
happened before that for many, many years, and this is
something I learned from Dave Winer, because he always
complained about this, and Dave's good at complaining the
He, that the technology press became cheerleaders. And the
reason they became cheerleaders is because they would get early
access to something, then if they weren't a cheerleader,
their early access would go away. And of course, the hunger
for the coolest latest widget, the new phone with, you know,
with the latest cameras in it or whatever the whatever the widget
is, and they really became instead of critical, because
they get free, you know, evaluation devices and early
access and they all work under embargo. And whenever I hear
embargo, I'm like, Okay, you're just you're promoting something
because you know, if you get some new if there's news is
news, and you report on the news, otherwise, you're just
doing embargo you just really a flowered over pr agents. And so
everything is always cool and awesome. It doesn't always work.
See the apple vision Pro, but in general, and boy, by the way,
Kara Swisher is a huge shill in this way. I mean, I remember her
saying for months, Apple's thing is going to suck. Who needs it?
Ben, she got an early demo. This is the future. This is
fantastic. This is great. So it's that early. The technology
press is not press anymore. And that started with the twit
network with the phones. When phones came out it was always
the new phone. We got to new cool this the cool. That's so
cool. It's so cool. And everything became cool and
awesome. And um, they actually became the SAM Altman's the
people on the panel. Well, you could use it for this. Imagine
this Imagine that? Well emergent properties?
Dave Jones: That, you know, I'll put this back to on on Apple as
access journalism has always been a problem to like put in,
especially in politics. Yeah. But in the in the tech world, ag
access journalism was, I think it was refined into an art form
by Apple and Steve Jobs specifically, I agree with every
Yeah, everybody wanted to interview him, everybody wanted
access. And so in order to do that, you had to suck up, you
know, to the to the Apple corporate machine, and get and
get in their good graces, because they would cut you off.
They'll cut you off, you wouldn't get invited to their
exclusive, you know, new product launches and these kinds of
things. You know, you couldn't sit there in the audience and
blog as they were talking on stage. And like this goes back.
So that goes back to another thing. They talked about this
interview in this piece about the coveted tech founder
interview. Today, we're
Unknown: seeing so many fun, we got
Adam Curry: to we've got to work on our transitions day, if I'm
not sure if I'm jumping the gun on Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah, I'm getting carried away. And I'm just like
running off at the mouth.
Adam Curry: You're literally giving me the what I think is
the cue and I'm like, Okay, hit it. Let me run again.
Dave Jones: Okay. All right. And so that brings us back to
another thing they talked about in this piece, which is the tech
founder interview. Today,
Unknown: we've seen so many fawning conversations with tech
leaders who are at the forefront of artificial intelligence.
Yeah, absolutely. One of the ones that really stands out, of
course, is an interview that Sundar Pichai, the CEO of Google
did with 60 minutes back in April of 2023. And in this
interview, Sundar was talking about how these AIs were a black
box, and we don't know what goes on in there. Let
me put it this way. I don't think we fully understand how a
human mind works either.
Adam Curry: By the way, know that on the transition, that was
great, that was
Dave Jones: Z. So this goes back to remember principle number one
is to have tech now of the tech Hype Machine is that these
people are insane. They smoke crack, actually,
Adam Curry: they're micro dosing the ketamine,
Dave Jones: ketamine the I love I love the reason I put this in
here is because I love what Sundar Pichai the way the thing
he said, I think it's easy to escape if you're not listening
close and thinking about what he said. He said, We don't
understand fully the way the human mind works either. There
is a real equivocation there between LLS limbs in the human
Adam Curry: mind, this is quite a bit of space in between the
two can we
Dave Jones: just say that if you think if you even attempt to
equivocate on those two things you're you're literally smoking
crack Yeah, you are insane. Yeah. But the this one the what
I love the best part of the whole the whole on the media
which we sort of bring it brings it back around to the to the to
his hate listen core. Is this awesome groundbreaking idea.
Unknown: Journalists shouldn't believe just a video that claims
to show something how running without actually taking a minute
to even carefully watch the video or ask to have access to
the tool themselves. Oh,
Adam Curry: it's no, it's the demo. It's the demo. The demo.
Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, the sad thing is that governments
are all over this. And I know why. Because the government so
like, hey, wait a minute, if we can control what's in these
MLMs, we can control the output and we can have, or what goes
into these MLMs or we can control the companies through
legislation, they will be able to control the masses who have
been taught by the access journalist that this is real.
And that this is reasoning, and that this is the human brain.
And so now of course, it's backfiring. Specifically,
though, particularly for Google is backfiring. Big time, because
you Yeah, it's now they're just a mean, they're just an ongoing
meme about the latest, crazy thing that Google search is
throwing back at people. You know, I don't have to mention
them all. But the cockroaches is a fun one. Oh, that's great.
And, and the glue on?
Dave Jones: My favorite one is the dog in a hot car. Did you
see that? What's that? Is it okay to leave in a dog in a hot
car? And the answer was, yes, it's perfectly fine to leave a
dog in a hot car. And it kept going. And it said there's even
a Beatles song called dog in a car and they started giving
lyrics. I love that's great. I love it. Because when you it, it
takes away the mystery of all this. When you can follow the
the answer it gives and see the Reddit post that it pulled from.
Exactly, exactly. And and makes it where it's no longer
mysterious. And
Adam Curry: this whole thing is circular. Because the news
business who is always looking for a daddy, they've been ever
since the internet, the news business has been dying because
they mistakenly thought that people would pay for news. And
it was always been a loss leader. Back in the days of
Cronkite and CBS and the Tiffany network. It was literally a loss
leader. The newspapers found out that oh wait a minute, people
weren't actually paying to read our news. They were they it was
the classifieds that were paying for them to print the news,
along with the classifieds. And now it's come full circle where
these news outlets, the latest being the Atlantic are like,
yeah, we'll sell you our data for your LLM. So it's a circular
thing now. So it's gonna be their crap being fed right back
into their crap. It's just it's going to go on forever and ever
and ever. And, and I've predicted this, I'm going to say
one more time, the future is dark, it's a dark winter. And
there will will be a pivot to the next hype, which will be
quantum computing. That's the next pivot. The pivot is quantum
my sister is in this business. And she says her customers are
already asking for Quantum. They've heard it and Google is
has products they are now they're unaffordable for
shopping sites, etc. Because that's what most of this stuff
is being used for. She has clients who know they and she
integrates AI into their shopping systems. So that
there's never an an empty answer. It never comes back and
says no, I don't have that product for you ever. So it's
it's built to lie and say no, but you might want this. And her
customers are already saying well, can we get quantum because
we see Google as a as again, a very spiffy demo. But once you
actually add on the features, it's unaffordable to me there's
no way it just it'll never the numbers never work out. But that
will be the next hype. And this is the this is the issue.
Because you look at the stock market right now in video makes
up a big part of the s&p 500 Spike. Oh,
Dave Jones: yeah, it's like something like 5% of the index
by itself.
Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Oh,
Dave Jones: it's it once this but when this bubble pops, it's
going to be bad.
Adam Curry: So I have a clip that I played I think we could
go on no agenda is from a New York University professor who
was on CNBC and I love CNBC because they kind of have to
report some truth because it is financial. And a lot of it is
this numbers you know this real income and you know, once you
get past the EBIT, da and all that, all that kind of fuzzy
numbers which actual market participants understand very
well,
Dave Jones: this Becky on Squawk Box.
Adam Curry: This is the result of this guy kind of tells it as
it is.
Unknown: You've consistently offered gut checks about
hallucinations, lack of progress, the way in which this
is not the pipe dream that some envision. Have any of the recent
product introductions changed your mind? No, I
mean, we're still basically working with With the same
technology, it's still designed in the same way. It takes a lot
of statistics from a lot of words and tries to predict what
happens next. And as soon as these things come out, people
start playing with them on Twitter and so forth. And you
see a lot of examples where they're still making the same
boneheaded mistakes as they were before. Nobody has actually
solved to loosen nations. And I don't think we can with large
language models. I think we need genuine innovation here. So what
happens is we have a trap right now where people propose things
like the humane AI, then imagining that AI is solved, and
then they put it out in the world. And we realize, no, it's
not solved. And I'm afraid that hasn't happened yet.
Are you going so far as to argue that the wave of investment that
very smart companies are making right now is misplaced?
I think people are putting in too much money too fast. I do
think it's kind of premature. Sam Altman talked about raising
$7 trillion. That's like series H money, or something like that,
when you've really established your business model, and so
forth. And that just hasn't happened here. I will publicly
predicted that open air, I might turn out to be the WeWork of AI,
people might scratch their heads and say, Well, this is a
solution. In search of a problem. We haven't really found
the problem. The whole industry spent something like $50 billion
last year made $3 billion in revenue, that is not sustainable
in the long term. So either they have to make it better, which is
proven really difficult, or they have to find some killer use
case, which they haven't really because the performance is
unreliable. So yeah, my guess is that a lot of investors are
going to be left holding
Adam Curry: back 50 billion and 3 billion out. Wow, that's
Dave Jones: not that's not sustainable. Unless it's a war.
Adam Curry: This is fine. Yeah, the thing is, this all stems
from really a math sex cult called Effective Altruism. Oh,
Dave Jones: yeah. The the, that that, that Australian chick that
sounds like she's from America. Yeah. She's she's in that too.
Yeah.
Adam Curry: This is they were all in they thought they could
solve the world's problems through math. And but it's
really a sex cult. And that's what that's what look at Sam
Altman.
Dave Jones: And and what's his name of SPF?
Adam Curry: It's same also Effective Altruism, the another
sex cult, with a nicer apartment.
Dave Jones: Cisco was better dig? Yeah, it's
Adam Curry: much better digs. Exactly. Exactly.
Dave Jones: This, you know, bring it back around to to
podcasting for a second spot. This is what I just get echoing
when I was reading Brian Bartlett, his piece on Spotify,
which I which I think is a good piece I think everybody should
read it is from if you're thinking about podcasting from
his frame, which is advertising, so selling and selling ads. He's
seeing the result of, of this same process that happened in
the podcasting world, Spotify, I keep thinking back to a couple
years ago, James had mentioned he said, that Spotify as press,
their media department was just an absolute machine pumping out
press releases, like two or three a week. And it's that same
process of trying to manufacture a, a myth of inevitability, that
that pot, you know, the future of Spotify is, it's going to be
you know, it's, you're going to come everybody everything's
going to be first party data, everything's going to be going
through our app, where the Kings, you better to get on
board, or you're gonna get left behind. And now that they've now
that they've gotten once they got religion, and decided to
turn a profit, they've just cut everything and now they're just
getting now they're ruthless. They're cutting out the they're
cutting out direct sale, they're gonna be they're gonna start
undercutting all of their publishers on the advertising
side. It's about to get ugly, because they, they saw, and I
think they got emboldened by YouTube coming into podcasting.
YouTube was like, that was like, no, no, we're not doing passthru
we're just going to host everything ourselves. Yeah. And
you get nothing. Yes, right. Yeah, we're gonna do that, too.
Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if if it's vodka if Spotify ditches
pass through in the next Oh, here.
Adam Curry: And the end, the only way RSS works is if it
works everywhere. Yeah. And that's, you know, wherever you
get your podcast is one of the most powerful statements and
media ever created, ever created. Then you can't just
have it work on one in one place. It just it's that's what
we've learned is 20 years of experience here. It has to work
everywhere.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and that's and that's what we talked about the
very beginning of the show. I mean, if if this stuff, if we
can't fix the lightning thing, if it doesn't work everywhere,
then it doesn't work. That's right. It's got to work
everywhere.
Adam Curry: Let's make it work everywhere, everybody Let's make
it work everywhere well thanks people yeah I'll kick it off
with the boost that came in during the show during this
board meeting these laughs with 1000 SATs I'm late to the
meeting what did I miss? Oh cool the cool the planet yeah that's
right cool the planet 11 11,948 years Israeli freedom booths
from Sir Brian of London. Cuz I'm back on track. I'm beating
the flak nobody's gonna get me on another rap. Glad to have you
both back. Hey, you made another brass. Surprise. Beautiful 606
from blueberry to small boobs boost from pod verse. Tune in
June June 30. To catch the hot lift Tyler managed by Carolyn
Blaney. Frankie paint the first boost of a lightning designer, d
mu d j's Mary Kate, altra, and DeLorean have homegrown hits to
get tuned turned into cartoons and MC a live Battle of the
Bands featuring $2 Holla Delta OG Survival Guide, Emily Rana
Hey citizen mellow Cosette Empath eyes and herbivore that's
going to be a hootenanny. Like $2 Holla. I like that a lot. I
like it a lot. That's exactly the stuff that we needed to be
doing with music on podcasting to porno, more wallets. Sam says
the 1000 SATs, his usual opening line, we already do this. For
playlists, if you create a playlist and someone plays it,
he's coming in from true fans. Of course, we pay the creator of
the playlist, the percentage we paid the podcast episode. In the
playlist, we just need to add V for V splits the publisher
feeds, we're doing this for our new event feed. And another 1000
sets. Oh, that's this Oh, he sent it twice a message twice.
He sent it and the origin of the 1000 SATs. says this is a
publisher feed we do this already. So you have a radio
feed. I don't think it's the same thing was what I described.
It,
Dave Jones: it's it is the same thing, but it depends on how you
handle it. But that's the thing is that is how you parse it. You
know, are you expecting to parse it as a pod roll type, right
linkage or are you expecting to follow the feeds to their
sources and then grab the items out?
Adam Curry: Okay, so that's an app specific way of parsing?
Dave Jones: Yeah, it can it can do whatever you want depending
on you know, the on the medium or whatever.
Adam Curry: Got it. Yeah. 2222 from lavish row of ducks Ainsley
galactic premier boost Thank you, brother that will help.
Dave Jones: Daniel Lewis in the chat says Sam says he needs a t
shirt. We do this already.
Adam Curry: 3333 from cotton gin, people pleaser beautiful
5000 from see Brooklyn 112 and also for people pleaser.
Beautiful people. Ainsley Costello boosted 5000 from
fountain now she busied herself I think it's illegal in some
states. Dirty Jersey whore 19,760 Boost y'all be good
boosted from the podcasting 2.0 boardroom meeting
Dave Jones: owner of a shiny new Apollo to money,
Adam Curry: bro, are we starting our pool? Now? I
Dave Jones: think I'll have one shortly. though.
Adam Curry: I love it. I love it. It's a waste of resources.
By the way it is. I like wasting resources. I waste a lot of
resources in my life. This is one way I love doing it. 77 7777
from it's a mood Mike. Also for people pleaser as first heard on
podcasts in 2.0. The value for value a great tune Ainsley.
Nice. We've got a 12,621 from chimp and also heard it on
podcasting. 2.0 and he adds with the pod sage. Do you don't count
guess not. Sorry, man. 50,000 SATs from Adam curry for Ainsley
that couldn't resist. Oh, nice. Yeah, I want to make sure
something nice came through there. 5000 received Brooklyn
112 For Ainsley people pleaser, this great guys. And another
2500 from Ainsley. This is for Nathan DOS and Christian harger
the collaborators as I think that's music mama music mama
doing that. Billy Bones 333 friendly tone record 333 33 For
Ainsley This is great guys. This is gonna this is gonna make some
people pay attention 5150 from the tone record adequate
catalogue count of artists on wavelike platform the other
night it showed over 900 accounts now seems like a big
recent jump. I don't know it's possible makes sense than a
millennial. Hope this helps cover your doom hole 5000 sets
does the does tone record with a row of ducks Kachin show live
today always a treat Alberto from rss.com with 1000 SATs with
a whole bunch of really happy fun emojis. Alberta
Dave Jones: rss.com they're lit now. Yeah, you could do it. Yes.
There. There's
Adam Curry: Yeah, their platform. That's another thing,
ma'am. The live and live stuff is a future for sure. For sure,
Nene.
Dave Jones: I'm gonna get them on the show here. Yes.
Adam Curry: We have Andrew Grumman next week, right?
Dave Jones: We do. Yep. Yep.
Adam Curry: excited. I'm excited. I'm excited to have him
on. Seventh seventh central Dred Scott. Dave, he says 3000 days
weaksauce we really heard that earlier. 70 777 from Dred Scott
pre show booths got the bat signal. And then we have the you
get Eric, our podcast Eric on your list. You might not have
came in just before we started. I'll do it. I'll do it just in
case. 32,768 which is an interesting number. How do you
Adam and Dave at least you had a perfectly logical reason for
your break last week. As for me, I forgot to hit the record
button from my our weekly highlights podcast last week. Or
you only do that once or twice in your life. Even with my show
notes doc having press record everywhere, no AI bot overlords.
I've taken over this guy yet. Man. I'm sorry. I know how that
hurts. That hurts so much. It's the worst. It's the worst. And
that's what I got from the live
Dave Jones: use. Have you ever done a whole show? And it's not
recorded? Yes, I
Adam Curry: have. Now luckily, it actually happened in the 1664
episodes I've done have no agenda. It's happened probably
twice. And luckily, there are many producers out there who
automatically spin up recording stream recording devices and and
actually make a link of that it's all automated. So if that
happens again or if I have some disaster, I can always go to
that link and and grab the show from the stream which granted
has a little different sound processing once it comes back.
But it has been a save saving grace couple of times. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I think I think I remember one time a long time
ago or maybe Darren O'Neill had to send you a copy or somebody
liked
Adam Curry: and back in the day when I was on wi TB FM Salem
West Virginia at the college radio station sunrise to sundown
everybody I did a whole show in the morning before I realized I
forgot to turn the transmitter on
yep cavemen all groggy you know, college kid came in all groggy
and like, start the show, Mike. Oh, no. Oh, no. There's a nice
row of Doc's. In fact, it's 22,000 to one and 22 from lavish
who says good meeting. Good meeting. I thank you. I
appreciate you. What else you got on your list there Dave?
Dave Jones: Oh, I got some paper towels. I guess I'm these did
not have time to print these. So there's gonna be a mix of Okay.
Have everything in one batch get Paul Saltzman 2222. Thank you,
Paul. Oh, get oh, the boys from Buzzsprout. Tom, Kevin, Alvin.
All the other guys. John. Eric, everybody. $1,000
Adam Curry: Sakala 20 is Blaze on am Paula. Man, I can't thank
you guys enough. You are really keeping it going for us. Thank
you so much. That's big. That's big as huge, huge. much
Dave Jones: appreciate it. Thanks, guys. Send us some fan
mail goes. away when we have to send no it doesn't work that
way.
Adam Curry: We got to put a link, we need a link with a fan
mail link and your family link.
Dave Jones: Trevor Satan's lawyer from Zeno are down in
Australia $5.
Adam Curry: I appreciate that Satan at least is listening to
us. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I mean, I just hope he doesn't sue us. But see, oh,
yeah. Paul airson longtime donor to the show. He's he said I'm
just a cynic. No doubt. Just want to Yeah, sure. Read a
little bit of he said, I'm just listening to the 180th for the
boardroom where you're talking about local podcasting. Sorry if
this comes up, but I'm only part of the way through. He says we
were just on vacation with a rental car and wanted to find
some local stations. So we hopped on the radio in the car
and started searching. That was very easy. And everyone knows
how to do that. How do we do this for podcasting? Is there a
geography tag or something similar that there that that is
there or could be added? Then podcast apps could use location
or zip code or something like that to find local bottom line
thought if local discoveries easier than the local digital
distribution may allow for faster uptick.
Adam Curry: When we changed the the geolocation tag to reflect
that if if that is something that someone is doing in that
tag? Well,
Dave Jones: the location tag is still for what the podcast is
about. Not What Yes, where it's I thought I
Adam Curry: heard James relenting and saying we should
change that to have an option to be where it's from. Who didn't
hear that? Yeah, yeah. Which I think is a good idea to make it
an option. That way, there's no confusion. It's either about
where it's about or where it originates from.
Dave Jones: Maybe there's maybe we need an attribute in there
that will toggle that. Yeah, I
Adam Curry: think that's what he was talking about. Okay, there
may be there may be a GitHub discussion about this.
Dave Jones: No, I'm gonna go look. Yeah. Michael Gagan $5
Thank you, Michael. Appreciate that. Charles current $5 Thank
you, Charles. We got a new monthly subscriber for $5 a
month Jorge Hernandez. Thank you. Appreciate that. We've got
Christopher reamer $10 The Chris Cohen glotzbach $5 James
Sullivan. $10. Jordan Dunnville $10 drips got $15 Thank you,
Joy. Thank you. Michael. Kimmerer $5.33 Pedro gun compass
$5 And that's all of our papers. Now. We got some boosts. See?
Here's some boosts. It sounds a boost. Chat F 33 333. That's a
big and three shout and he says great discussion on bringing
podcasting back to his roots. We try it we do try Sam Sethi. This
is from May the 18th 2625 through true fans he says true
fan support from Episode 180 serial churn Okay, so that it
must be an automated message.
Adam Curry: No, that's that's that is auto message his and it
shows up here my helipad as well so whether he listens to it or
not the way true fans works is it automatically sends a payment
when an episode drops that you've set up auto payments for
with
Dave Jones: with a message saying yes like the automated
boost. Yeah, cool. Cool.
Adam Curry: That's very cool. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Anonymous podcast guru users. 5000 SATs do podcast
guru he says I so love where all this is headed. This is what
gets me firing on all cylinders forward motion, progress and
dreaming all while recognizing the reality of just how fast
this is all materializing. Plus, Adam is speaking my language
today. NanHu NanHu.
Adam Curry: Progress is a process.
Dave Jones: Gene been 5000 says to cast Matic gene says y'all
are spot on podcasting is perfect for local. I think
that's one reason it works so well for church sermon podcasts
like the one I put out for my church called encouraged and
emboldened at E does CBN podcast.org.
Adam Curry: Nice. Yep. I believe in that. Brian
Dave Jones: Ensminger 1701 That's what you call a Star Trek
boosts. He says, Wow, the Google AI clip
Adam Curry: was hilarious. I don't remember what was it? That
Dave Jones: was two weeks ago. I don't remember either. 44 or 44
sets through from dwelve he's part of the social cast pod crew
Ah yes. Through cast Matic he says talking about scams is a
good time to promote one of my favorite listens darknet diaries
by Jack reciter Oh, yeah.
Adam Curry: Show Yeah.
Dave Jones: Jean been 2222 through cast ematic he says I
absolutely love the idea of titles and images for seasons.
Cool. Yep, we're gonna do this. Yes, yes. Alan see Paul striper
boosts 7777. To fountain he says this is a deep dive into the
nature of intellectual property in the way it will work in this
new system.
Adam Curry: We tried that too. Yeah. Everything's coming
together it but progress is a process.
Dave Jones: In the delimiter, comic strip blogger 23,000 sets
says it was a long one. It says Howdy, Dave and Adam. I'd like
to again recommend a podcast by two Texans. Been the
cybersecurity expert in gene the corporate efficiency expert, the
good old boys. They talk about fun stuff, quote from the latest
episode. Gene. I really wish they'd focus on some Linux stuff
but they haven't done that yet. Then Hey, you know, it's the
year of Linux. This is the official year of Linux. Find
their podcast at www was that a transcript? By now what it
really reels you in and makes you want to listen to the show.
Find their podcast@www.ge Just two good old boys.com or search
for it in podcasting 2.0 apps to use their transcript yo CSB.
Adam Curry: Yo,
Dave Jones: yo Thank you CSB. Yeah, brother,
Adam Curry: thank you. Help. He's mad when we slag off AI.
Believer, he's a believer. He's a believer in AI. And he'll
Dave Jones: be a believer in it in take yours.
Adam Curry: Well, I think we were jam packed with a board
meeting. Let's build some wallets. Everybody. Yes, let's
come up with some stuff that we'll be looking at when we see
if we can offer some some ideas and solutions. And if you have
them, let us know if there's anything out there, so we can
keep this going. I think it's a good idea. It does work. It does
work. You see it right here, right here on this program.
Dave Jones: I'll send that way late. Just send me an email
saying there's a duplicate feed for Ainsley that
Adam Curry: may the I may have done that. Did you? Okay, I
might have but the question is, which one do we delete?
Dave Jones: He's shows me the one to delete. I'll take care of
it. But
Adam Curry: will that screw up the boost that we've done here
on the show?
Dave Jones: No, no, I don't think so. Well screw up
Adam Curry: my value time split that I'm going to put in after
the fact. No, no, no, because it points to the feed right? Yeah.
Okay. All right. You'll take care of it. Again. Yeah, I think
it was my fault because I needed to grab the track with the value
time split stuff. And it wasn't in there yet. And I didn't know
if they were going to put it in on time. So I think I dropped
it. I dropped it. I'm sorry. Both of these.
Dave Jones: They both did. They have the same good so they
should okay,
Adam Curry: I duped it. I'm sorry. I created a dupe I try
not to do the power of the good. Let's have a great weekend
Brother Dave. And thank you everybody in the boardroom.
We'll be back next week Friday podcast 2.0.
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.org. For more information,
Adam Curry: go podcast. TV is what's playing in God's waiting
room.