1 00:00:00,930 --> 00:00:06,600 Adam Curry: Casting 2.0 for May 31 2024, episode 181 bucket of 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,580 kicks. Hello, everybody. We are back in this little once again 3 00:00:11,580 --> 00:00:15,570 time for the official board meeting of podcasting. Oh, 4 00:00:15,570 --> 00:00:18,930 that's right. Everything going on with podcasting, accept no 5 00:00:18,930 --> 00:00:21,810 substitutes. This is where it all happens. What's going on 6 00:00:21,810 --> 00:00:26,880 with the namespace podcast? index.org podcasting 2.0 podcast 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,570 index dot social. We are the only boardroom that plays music 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,660 and pays the artists. That's right. I'm Adam curry here in 9 00:00:33,660 --> 00:00:36,420 the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. The man 10 00:00:36,420 --> 00:00:39,750 who you always want to join your pool party say hello to my 11 00:00:39,750 --> 00:00:44,370 friend on the other end the One NOLAN Ponce's Mr. Game Jones 12 00:00:45,780 --> 00:00:47,730 Dave Jones: have been found guilty. Guilty, 13 00:00:47,730 --> 00:00:50,430 Adam Curry: guilty. guilty on all counts. What did you do? 14 00:00:50,490 --> 00:00:51,240 What did you do? 15 00:00:51,690 --> 00:00:53,070 Dave Jones: guilty of being awesome. 16 00:00:55,650 --> 00:00:58,140 Adam Curry: Yes, Dave Jones, you are very guilty of being 17 00:00:58,170 --> 00:01:00,780 awesome, my friend. Awesome. And 18 00:01:01,020 --> 00:01:02,910 Dave Jones: I'm sitting I didn't tell you before the show 19 00:01:02,910 --> 00:01:05,520 started. But I'm sitting next to a bucket of chickens. 20 00:01:06,209 --> 00:01:09,329 Adam Curry: A bucket of chickens. Chickens chickens, 21 00:01:09,599 --> 00:01:13,259 like fried chickens or with chickens. Chickens. 22 00:01:13,290 --> 00:01:16,800 Dave Jones: This is pre pre fraud. These are chicks. They 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:17,790 hatch. Oh, we 24 00:01:17,790 --> 00:01:20,580 Adam Curry: are hatching chicks. Oh, that's so cute. See a little 25 00:01:20,580 --> 00:01:22,350 hot heat lamp and everything. 26 00:01:22,859 --> 00:01:27,689 Dave Jones: Yeah, it's a little like this little heat. What you 27 00:01:27,689 --> 00:01:32,669 call it? Sort of like a it's not a lamp though. It's like a It's 28 00:01:32,669 --> 00:01:37,529 a heat. It's like a heat pad. But it's elevated on these 29 00:01:37,529 --> 00:01:40,889 little legs that you screw up and down to raise and lower the 30 00:01:40,889 --> 00:01:44,939 heat towards like, you know to make that a little personal 31 00:01:44,939 --> 00:01:46,019 space for the chickens. 32 00:01:46,049 --> 00:01:49,199 Adam Curry: So not only are you awesome, you're also a chick 33 00:01:49,199 --> 00:01:49,949 Magnus. 34 00:01:51,239 --> 00:01:56,279 Dave Jones: Yes, chick. Beside me. I have 11 Chicks right 35 00:01:56,279 --> 00:01:56,999 beside me in 36 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,370 Adam Curry: a bucket. Has your dog discovered the chicks yet? 37 00:01:59,370 --> 00:02:00,960 That's always fun. We'll see 38 00:02:00,959 --> 00:02:03,899 Dave Jones: they're in the they're in the podcast room 39 00:02:03,929 --> 00:02:06,119 because it's really the only place in the house that we can 40 00:02:06,119 --> 00:02:10,739 kind of lock them up and they it makes sense. So they're they're 41 00:02:10,739 --> 00:02:13,619 right beside you can't they're not peeping real loud yet but 42 00:02:13,619 --> 00:02:17,279 they make them make it go in in a minute. Okay, but there's 43 00:02:17,309 --> 00:02:19,859 there's literally 11 of them down and that's 44 00:02:19,860 --> 00:02:22,740 Adam Curry: so cute. Um, do they know their futures to have their 45 00:02:22,770 --> 00:02:24,300 their necks chopped by you? 46 00:02:26,190 --> 00:02:27,570 Dave Jones: These are, these are egg. 47 00:02:28,620 --> 00:02:29,610 Adam Curry: choppers. Oh, okay. 48 00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:31,740 Dave Jones: We'll keep roosters then 49 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:33,750 Adam Curry: we'll keep these. 50 00:02:34,860 --> 00:02:36,990 Dave Jones: Yeah, hey, man. Oh, cute. Oh, man. 51 00:02:38,340 --> 00:02:40,290 Adam Curry: So we didn't have a board meeting last week. I was 52 00:02:40,290 --> 00:02:44,670 Jones in a little bit. Although most of my Friday was comprised 53 00:02:44,670 --> 00:02:46,440 of travel to nashvegas 54 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:48,570 Dave Jones: on Yeah, missed you, sweetheart. 55 00:02:48,630 --> 00:02:51,000 Adam Curry: I missed you too. Darling. What did you do on your 56 00:02:51,030 --> 00:02:59,490 day off? sheet rock Sridhar, I got drunk drywall baby. I got my 57 00:03:01,140 --> 00:03:09,780 flatbed. Well, so we went to the K love fan awards weekend. K 58 00:03:09,780 --> 00:03:13,740 Love is a Christian music's it's a network really stations all 59 00:03:13,740 --> 00:03:18,750 across the country. And they do they do this one weekend in 60 00:03:18,750 --> 00:03:24,750 Nashville at the was at the the Opryland now the good Gaylord 61 00:03:25,230 --> 00:03:29,670 Hotel, which is right next to the Grand Ole Opry and this 62 00:03:29,700 --> 00:03:31,470 which is basically a BioDome. 63 00:03:32,070 --> 00:03:35,550 Dave Jones: Yeah, it's, it's huge so that that hotel is 64 00:03:35,550 --> 00:03:36,300 gigantic. 65 00:03:37,020 --> 00:03:39,390 Adam Curry: And but the thing is, is like you never you feel 66 00:03:39,390 --> 00:03:42,930 like you leave your room and you walk out and you and they've got 67 00:03:42,930 --> 00:03:46,380 palm trees and there's rivers and waterfalls, but it's all 68 00:03:46,380 --> 00:03:47,700 inside a BioDome. 69 00:03:48,329 --> 00:03:50,369 Dave Jones: Yeah, it's like Pauly Shore is in there 70 00:03:50,369 --> 00:03:51,569 somewhere these you gotta find 71 00:03:51,570 --> 00:03:54,810 Adam Curry: and Pauly Shore of all the names. Probably 72 00:03:55,139 --> 00:03:58,739 Dave Jones: biodome when that is movie but BioDome? I don't think 73 00:03:58,739 --> 00:04:02,129 I've seen it. That's where he had a movie called Biona 74 00:04:02,129 --> 00:04:03,359 wouldn't surprise or something. 75 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,380 Adam Curry: So there's 1000s of people at this event. And it's 76 00:04:07,410 --> 00:04:13,230 all music. I mean, from Friday night, they had a concert in the 77 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,950 what is it the Delta ballroom which I think holds two and a 78 00:04:16,950 --> 00:04:21,000 half 1000 People with and the sound was amazing. I was very, 79 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,090 very surprised by that. And then you have the next day you had 80 00:04:24,090 --> 00:04:28,740 like songwriters, roundtable and emerging artists. And then 81 00:04:29,250 --> 00:04:34,290 Sunday morning, elevation worship played. And then Sunday 82 00:04:34,290 --> 00:04:37,680 night was the actual awards at the Grand Ole Opry. And, man, I 83 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,360 gotta tell you, so first of all, you walk around Nashville, and 84 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,570 everyone's a musician. Everybody's gonna be I mean, 85 00:04:45,570 --> 00:04:49,050 literally, we were in a restaurant. And I said, Look at 86 00:04:49,050 --> 00:04:51,990 this guy who's serving us. I'm gonna say bass player, and I 87 00:04:51,990 --> 00:04:53,490 nailed it. Did you? 88 00:04:55,140 --> 00:04:58,290 Dave Jones: Yeah, this was I forget who I forgot who it was. 89 00:04:58,350 --> 00:05:02,220 Some musician used to say I think Maybe Randy Travis, or 90 00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:06,450 somebody said that like you're the average janitor. Like don't 91 00:05:06,450 --> 00:05:08,790 get too much of a big hit because the average janitor in 92 00:05:08,790 --> 00:05:10,710 Nashville is a better guitar player than you are. 93 00:05:10,739 --> 00:05:13,289 Adam Curry: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And all these guys, 94 00:05:13,289 --> 00:05:15,839 of course, you know, because you really can't make much money 95 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,139 with music anymore. Everyone has to tour consistently, are 96 00:05:19,139 --> 00:05:22,679 constantly and if they don't tour they're working for Dave 97 00:05:22,679 --> 00:05:24,209 Ramsey. I mean, it's like 98 00:05:25,860 --> 00:05:27,720 Dave Jones: Does he have a stranglehold on Nashville for 99 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:28,140 some reason 100 00:05:28,140 --> 00:05:30,630 Adam Curry: does I mean he has a lot of people working for him. 101 00:05:30,660 --> 00:05:33,390 This operation is a huge operation. 102 00:05:33,660 --> 00:05:34,770 Dave Jones: Does he live in Nashville? 103 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,360 Adam Curry: I think so. Yeah. Thank you. 104 00:05:38,100 --> 00:05:40,590 Dave Jones: What's the place? What's the big suburb outside of 105 00:05:40,590 --> 00:05:44,430 Nashville? All the rich people lives at Brentwood. There's 106 00:05:45,150 --> 00:05:50,400 Adam Curry: Well, there's helped me out boardroom there's as very 107 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,040 face on the tip of my tongue. Now Sir Patrick Koba lives 108 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,670 there. A Frank Franklin Frank okay. Yeah, that's Franklin. And 109 00:05:56,670 --> 00:05:58,950 there's another one Murfreesboro, of course, is 110 00:05:58,950 --> 00:06:03,180 another one. But Franklin is, is where a lot of where the where 111 00:06:03,180 --> 00:06:05,940 the, where the touring musicians live, like the Mercy me guys. 112 00:06:05,940 --> 00:06:11,100 They all live in Franklin. Anyway. And so what you notice 113 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:13,710 when when they're all on stage play, and there's there's some 114 00:06:13,710 --> 00:06:17,880 real superstar talent there from the Christian music world. Which 115 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,410 is not like hymns and gospel. But it's been you got Crowder, 116 00:06:23,550 --> 00:06:26,940 Matthew West, I mean, these are like rock and roll songs, 117 00:06:27,690 --> 00:06:30,720 Dave Jones: that I'll just in general say that the quality of 118 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:35,340 Christian music now is so much better than it used to be, like 119 00:06:35,340 --> 00:06:38,640 20 years ago, and it's not even it's not even in the same 120 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:39,240 ballpark. 121 00:06:39,270 --> 00:06:43,500 Adam Curry: It's almost crossing over with country. So yeah, 122 00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:47,370 totally. And but what you notice pretty quick, as everybody is 123 00:06:47,370 --> 00:06:50,340 writing and playing together all the songs like well, Ethan wrote 124 00:06:50,340 --> 00:06:53,250 that song and that's all I played with him on this and say 125 00:06:53,250 --> 00:06:58,770 it's kind of a small group. And, you know, that's because it's 126 00:06:58,770 --> 00:07:02,190 really it's also the natural vibe is which I would say is the 127 00:07:02,190 --> 00:07:06,030 harder is kind of like LA was in the in the 80s and 90s, where 128 00:07:06,030 --> 00:07:07,890 everyone's just there, everyone's playing that 129 00:07:07,890 --> 00:07:13,590 everyone's writing together. So it's an exciting environment and 130 00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:17,910 no one's making money on their music. We know the problem yet, 131 00:07:17,910 --> 00:07:21,450 which and you know, is a lot of grousing. These artists like you 132 00:07:21,450 --> 00:07:24,300 know, big tour, so they're touring and that keeps 133 00:07:24,300 --> 00:07:28,320 everything alive for them. I say this all in lead up. Because 134 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:33,540 today on this very boardroom, we will be offering the planetary 135 00:07:33,540 --> 00:07:39,000 world global premiere, a breaking, breaking breaking of 136 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,560 the new Ainsley Costello track, which is a people pleaser. We'll 137 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,430 be playing it later on the show. And the reason why I'm setting 138 00:07:47,430 --> 00:07:52,830 this up this way is because she has, I think three top Nashville 139 00:07:52,830 --> 00:07:57,660 Songwriters who collaborated on this record with her and 140 00:07:57,660 --> 00:08:02,010 Abington and the Costello's put a lot of time into convincing 141 00:08:02,010 --> 00:08:07,140 them that value for value is the way so that you know, they got 142 00:08:07,140 --> 00:08:10,770 their wallets and everything all set up. And so when we play the 143 00:08:10,770 --> 00:08:14,040 track, it would be great if everybody could be using curio 144 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,850 cast or fountain pod verse podcast guru with the stuff that 145 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:22,350 understands the live and lit, streaming sites and boost 146 00:08:22,620 --> 00:08:24,660 doesn't matter how much you boost, but let's just give them 147 00:08:24,930 --> 00:08:28,920 as many boosts as we can. I want them to have a good experience 148 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,430 if you know what I'm saying. Where's the feed? Where's the 149 00:08:32,429 --> 00:08:34,829 Dave Jones: fee? Or it is I found it index. Okay, people 150 00:08:34,829 --> 00:08:37,109 pleaser here it is. I was just wanting to look at the feed and 151 00:08:37,109 --> 00:08:40,289 see who see who's in it for a split. You know, 152 00:08:40,980 --> 00:08:43,230 Adam Curry: the splits may be on the back end on wave Lake, I 153 00:08:43,230 --> 00:08:45,960 Dave Jones: think. Okay, yeah, it's only going to wave like 154 00:08:45,990 --> 00:08:47,820 okay, but at least I hope so at 155 00:08:48,180 --> 00:08:49,200 Adam Curry: least I hope so. 156 00:08:49,950 --> 00:08:51,750 Dave Jones: There's one Okay, so there's one, I'm just looking at 157 00:08:51,750 --> 00:08:56,190 the value tag. And here there's one split. And it says in the 158 00:08:56,190 --> 00:08:59,190 name of the split value recipient name people pleaser 159 00:08:59,190 --> 00:09:03,150 via wave lake. And then there's an address because of that. 160 00:09:03,150 --> 00:09:04,290 Okay, so Well, 161 00:09:04,290 --> 00:09:08,700 Adam Curry: we are splitting it out back there, I believe. I 162 00:09:08,700 --> 00:09:16,050 believe it's Christian harger And Nathan, dos. Okay. Hey, 163 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,870 Pfeiffer. Yeah. So five versus wavelength. I'm out, bro. All 164 00:09:18,870 --> 00:09:21,450 right, man. If you want to help the value for value, have that 165 00:09:21,450 --> 00:09:24,930 attitude. That's really good. That's the right attitude. 166 00:09:25,020 --> 00:09:29,490 That's really helpful. That's really, really helpful. That's 167 00:09:29,490 --> 00:09:31,350 really going to move the needle for everybody. 168 00:09:32,790 --> 00:09:35,160 Dave Jones: So make artists want to really jump in. They want to 169 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:35,700 hop in 170 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:38,520 Adam Curry: and then really get on the D MU train. That's right. 171 00:09:38,550 --> 00:09:43,290 That's right, please. But it was it was very exciting because 172 00:09:43,290 --> 00:09:46,020 there was a lot of people there who were very interested in what 173 00:09:46,020 --> 00:09:47,640 we're doing. And 174 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,910 Dave Jones: did they know about it or do you have to evangelize? 175 00:09:50,940 --> 00:09:51,120 No, 176 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,240 Adam Curry: I had to preach. I had to evangelize Of course. 177 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,110 Okay. Now, this kind of leads up to another thing because I did 178 00:09:58,110 --> 00:10:03,630 have a nice conversation with With, with Jim and Julie this 179 00:10:03,630 --> 00:10:09,330 week, and you know, they kind of flew an upside down flag at me. 180 00:10:10,590 --> 00:10:13,740 Field to mind the pine tree flag, they flew the US flag 181 00:10:13,740 --> 00:10:20,400 upside down. They weren't distress, oh, flag binary flag. 182 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,720 So we had a really great chat. First of all there is, of 183 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,510 course, they are angels, parents, but they're, you know, 184 00:10:27,510 --> 00:10:30,780 they're still trying to figure out navigating their way through 185 00:10:30,780 --> 00:10:35,430 this value verse and trying to onboard people and start a 186 00:10:35,430 --> 00:10:39,300 business, which is what we really need, you know, we have 187 00:10:39,300 --> 00:10:43,470 to create a form of an industry here with the with value for 188 00:10:43,470 --> 00:10:46,890 value music. And of course, I'm only coming from the kind of 189 00:10:46,890 --> 00:10:50,010 radio guy background where what is important to me is that we 190 00:10:50,010 --> 00:10:53,550 can play songs and podcasts and that we have the splits go 191 00:10:53,550 --> 00:10:59,100 through remote items, value, time split, etc. And so they had 192 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:03,630 a couple of things we need to talk about briefly. Music 193 00:11:03,630 --> 00:11:05,970 license, actually, that's getting pretty close. And I feel 194 00:11:05,970 --> 00:11:09,570 comfortable that we're coming up with a remote item license that 195 00:11:09,570 --> 00:11:15,180 will work for music being played in podcasts. That's already been 196 00:11:15,180 --> 00:11:21,090 implemented in in a in a form with RSS, blue, I believe, and 197 00:11:21,090 --> 00:11:25,020 with true fans, and I think we need to get that license, the 198 00:11:25,020 --> 00:11:28,650 actual license itself on to some place that is where licenses 199 00:11:28,650 --> 00:11:30,390 belong. I'm not sure what 200 00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:36,000 Dave Jones: we have. The phase seven is, is closing tomorrow. 201 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,510 So that's good timing. I can do that as soon as it's ready. 202 00:11:39,540 --> 00:11:40,470 Okay, good. 203 00:11:41,550 --> 00:11:45,150 Adam Curry: They're, obviously they're in for the long haul. 204 00:11:45,150 --> 00:11:48,930 Because things don't you know, just all of a sudden happen the 205 00:11:48,930 --> 00:11:51,000 minute we're all excited, and we'll talk about that, because 206 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,370 things have been happening that are exciting, but takes years. 207 00:11:54,210 --> 00:11:57,600 But the main thing that they were concerned about is wallets. 208 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:03,480 And I think we need to discuss. Yes, I agree. Yeah. Because it 209 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:08,730 looks like get Alby is out of the custodial wallet business. 210 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,760 Dave Jones: Can you explain? Please explain if what's going 211 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,040 on with that, because I don't understand. Okay, so I thought 212 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,190 that there was a I thought they were still an onboarding path 213 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,180 through the 2.0 apps, and is that now gone to that's going 214 00:12:24,180 --> 00:12:24,540 away? 215 00:12:25,890 --> 00:12:28,290 Adam Curry: That that is going away, that's my understanding. 216 00:12:29,610 --> 00:12:35,610 And, but maybe even more importantly, is there's also 217 00:12:35,610 --> 00:12:39,720 really no path for someone to easily set up a wallet if you're 218 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,940 a podcaster, or a musician. And so, what the Costello said is 219 00:12:44,940 --> 00:12:48,360 like, but you know, we're only really able to onboard people 220 00:12:48,750 --> 00:12:53,100 into fountain. And fountain, although it's great, you know, 221 00:12:53,130 --> 00:12:56,250 to onboard your your feed, regardless of what your 222 00:12:56,250 --> 00:13:03,510 enclosure is. That, you know, it's it's not it's confusing. 223 00:13:04,380 --> 00:13:06,870 You want to make things relatively easy. And so they've 224 00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:15,630 really been struggling on it. Because of the the the boardroom 225 00:13:15,630 --> 00:13:18,780 was saying, if you can have, you can still send people invite the 226 00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:22,470 getting out of the business. That's my understanding they're 227 00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:27,000 getting out of the business. And they will still work with your 228 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,630 own node, if you want to can, you know, use wass nostre wallet 229 00:13:30,630 --> 00:13:34,860 connected, but it's all stuff that's way too complicated. For 230 00:13:34,860 --> 00:13:38,760 an onboarding. Now, there's, there's two sides to this. So 231 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,030 let's start first, with the easy side, which is the app side. 232 00:13:42,570 --> 00:13:48,960 There are many options now to onboard people into wallets in 233 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,560 your app. And the the one that is the most obvious to me is the 234 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:55,890 breeze SDK. And by the way, I warned everybody this was going 235 00:13:55,890 --> 00:13:59,250 to happen, we all got really complacent and like, Oh, I'll be 236 00:13:59,250 --> 00:14:03,600 working and then all sudden, whether lb doesn't work, or it's 237 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,540 just it's a centralized thing, you know, it's like, and this is 238 00:14:06,540 --> 00:14:12,180 why lightning service providers have come into existence, which 239 00:14:12,180 --> 00:14:17,310 is what breezes business model has always been. I think voltage 240 00:14:17,310 --> 00:14:22,170 is also trying to set this up. Because the whole point of a 241 00:14:22,170 --> 00:14:24,630 lightning service provider and I've been reading through the 242 00:14:24,660 --> 00:14:32,880 breeze SDK docs, is you really don't need to do much you know, 243 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,150 you don't have to think about as a as a developer you don't have 244 00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:38,880 to think about liquidity or channels all that just kind of 245 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:44,970 magically appears for a fee obviously. But it really and I'm 246 00:14:44,970 --> 00:14:48,360 seeing testimonials of people saying hey on boarded 100,000 247 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,810 customers through this with just a couple lines of code. So that 248 00:14:51,810 --> 00:14:57,240 sounds optimistic to me, but I think we need to have our both 249 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,640 our well definitely our apps need to look at, at other 250 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,100 onboarding opportunities. Because I think it's, if it's 251 00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:11,100 not already shut down, it's going to shut Alby is not going 252 00:15:11,100 --> 00:15:15,660 to be a solution for us. And so I had some back back channel 253 00:15:15,660 --> 00:15:20,010 conversations, which I don't like. But in this case, the 254 00:15:20,010 --> 00:15:22,080 thing was good, because, you know, so we didn't have like a 255 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,320 whole, a whole back and forth thread on the social. 256 00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:29,250 Dave Jones: Sometimes that's just faster, and it is, 257 00:15:29,340 --> 00:15:35,820 Adam Curry: it is faster in that in that way. And it's, I think, 258 00:15:35,850 --> 00:15:40,350 you can't even get a new wallet through pod bursts. You know, if 259 00:15:40,350 --> 00:15:43,830 you just if you just jump on, just start using it. So if 260 00:15:43,830 --> 00:15:46,860 developers, the app developers are interested in being 261 00:15:46,860 --> 00:15:50,160 continuing value for value, some work will be required. 262 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,960 Dave Jones: I mean, so what's the I mean? I feel a need to 263 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,310 help developers with this. Well, me too, you know, I mean, but I 264 00:16:05,310 --> 00:16:08,850 don't, but I don't know what path to take is the issue. I 265 00:16:08,850 --> 00:16:10,020 mean, that there's, 266 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,630 Adam Curry: well, here's one thing we can do. Regardless of 267 00:16:15,660 --> 00:16:23,760 how you set stuff up, it seems like the one problem is always 268 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:29,250 liquidity. So the index can help with that, you know, if you need 269 00:16:29,250 --> 00:16:33,930 liquidity and whatever your setup is, but I feel like the 270 00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:39,120 Munis SDK is is a couple of them now that they are the solution, 271 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,730 because all you have to do is just integrate the Yes, I mean, 272 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,450 I'm, hello, this is me, Adam, the developer, all you got to do 273 00:16:45,450 --> 00:16:49,770 is just put the SDK in there, and it works. But I think that 274 00:16:49,770 --> 00:16:53,460 is truly the way forward. So you don't have to worry about it as 275 00:16:53,460 --> 00:16:58,230 a developer. Now, on the other side, on the on the podcast, 276 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,390 hosting side, there's other this this is more of a path, because 277 00:17:03,450 --> 00:17:07,530 I think the breeze SDK, I don't think that's intended for a 278 00:17:07,530 --> 00:17:10,170 hosting company. I mean, it's something you jam into your 279 00:17:10,170 --> 00:17:10,950 apps, right? 280 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,590 Dave Jones: Yeah, so you're gonna have, so you've got to see 281 00:17:16,590 --> 00:17:18,870 you need a you need a wallet on both sides. You need a podcaster 282 00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:21,330 wallet. And you need a listener wallet. Yep. That's that's the 283 00:17:21,330 --> 00:17:24,450 issue. Is that the listener wallet? Is the going to be the 284 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:29,190 the one that that gets the most direct hit from this? Yes. Off 285 00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:32,550 the bat. Yes. Right. Because they're just not going to be one 286 00:17:32,550 --> 00:17:37,950 available to pick up. Unless, you know, because because the 287 00:17:37,950 --> 00:17:42,270 wallet needs to be on the listener side. So it's on the on 288 00:17:42,270 --> 00:17:45,510 the podcaster. side, the wallet is a much easier thing to to 289 00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:49,170 handle. Because all you just need a wallet that can handle 290 00:17:49,170 --> 00:17:53,190 key send, and you're done. On the podcaster side, excuse me on 291 00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:57,870 the listener side. It's harder because the wallet needs to 292 00:17:57,870 --> 00:18:01,530 integrate with the podcast app. Yeah. Because because the 293 00:18:01,530 --> 00:18:06,870 podcast app needs to be guide it needs to be triggering events 294 00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:11,370 within the wallet. Yes. So that is a difficult, that's a more 295 00:18:11,370 --> 00:18:20,100 difficult problem to solve. And that's why Alby was was good, 296 00:18:20,130 --> 00:18:24,390 because there was a because I had an API and all in all that. 297 00:18:25,020 --> 00:18:30,240 I mean, like, I guess, I guess the ideal solution would be that 298 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:36,480 there that there's an Alby compatible API? Yes. Basically a 299 00:18:37,050 --> 00:18:39,720 clone of the out of the Alby API, 300 00:18:39,810 --> 00:18:42,330 Adam Curry: and this is exactly why we had our own pay running. 301 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:46,380 We had Elon pay ramius. And then we shut it down. And then here 302 00:18:46,380 --> 00:18:48,060 we go. Well, well, no, I 303 00:18:48,060 --> 00:18:51,270 Dave Jones: mean, Tim, shut it down. Yeah, 304 00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:53,520 Adam Curry: so okay. Yes, Tim, shut it down. Correct. 305 00:18:53,610 --> 00:18:59,190 Dave Jones: Yeah. So the the, if if there's an ABI API clone that 306 00:18:59,190 --> 00:19:04,440 somebody can layer in front of Elon bits or something like 307 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:04,680 that. 308 00:19:04,980 --> 00:19:08,730 Adam Curry: So this as I went searching for solutions, and 309 00:19:08,730 --> 00:19:11,550 this may be where some developers can help. I found 310 00:19:11,910 --> 00:19:16,500 that a key send implementation for Alan bits, was actually 311 00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:22,410 created two years ago, now and has been reviewed as recently as 312 00:19:22,410 --> 00:19:28,080 a couple of weeks ago. But it needs I think, two official 313 00:19:28,110 --> 00:19:32,130 reviewers, I've actually put the link into the shownotes. It 314 00:19:32,130 --> 00:19:37,050 needs to know I don't know how GitHub works, but it needs some 315 00:19:37,050 --> 00:19:40,530 reviewers or maybe we need to fork this because here's what 316 00:19:40,530 --> 00:19:44,640 I'm thinking Dave, I'm thinking I'm fine setting up a node for 317 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,840 this and providing these wallets. I mean, at this point, 318 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:54,450 I don't care I just want it to work. You know, and LM bits is 319 00:19:54,450 --> 00:19:58,650 actually a very, very beautiful system. Because you get a lot of 320 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,170 you know, it has a lot of just as The wallet itself, there's a 321 00:20:01,170 --> 00:20:06,090 lot of things you can do. But it will also pretty much work the 322 00:20:06,090 --> 00:20:08,130 same way that Alby will work. 323 00:20:09,389 --> 00:20:15,329 Dave Jones: This is a strange situation. I mean, just just 324 00:20:16,979 --> 00:20:21,119 just kind of stepping back and looking at this for a minute, is 325 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,749 sort of an odd situation, because you have, at the same 326 00:20:24,749 --> 00:20:30,179 time that you have lightning being implemented on more and 327 00:20:30,179 --> 00:20:33,869 more platforms. I mean, Coinbase is putting in lightning Pay Pal 328 00:20:33,869 --> 00:20:37,889 is putting in lightning stripe is putting in the Bitcoin pet 329 00:20:37,889 --> 00:20:44,189 like, there's, you're getting, there's been a lot of adoption 330 00:20:44,219 --> 00:20:48,269 that is happening very quickly, in response to the increase in 331 00:20:48,269 --> 00:20:56,249 regulatory regulatory, clarity, and ETF acceptance from the SEC 332 00:20:56,249 --> 00:21:00,419 and these kinds of things. So payment platforms are becoming 333 00:21:00,449 --> 00:21:04,709 and exchange platforms are becoming more comfortable with 334 00:21:04,709 --> 00:21:10,229 Bitcoin and lightning. And then you have the players that 335 00:21:10,229 --> 00:21:14,489 provide lightning wallets are just pulling back, like like 336 00:21:14,519 --> 00:21:20,519 Albie, who's the faint like Phoenix wallet. They're just 337 00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:25,199 they're pulling back. And in maybe it's because they don't 338 00:21:25,199 --> 00:21:29,879 feel like they have the chops to comply with the new regulatory 339 00:21:29,879 --> 00:21:30,599 clarity? Well, 340 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,030 Adam Curry: as I as I read the legislation that passed the 341 00:21:33,030 --> 00:21:36,720 House, of course, the last to pass the Senate and get the sign 342 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,430 off from the President. It really says like, oh, you can do 343 00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:45,180 all this, you know, if your pass through, you know, custodial, if 344 00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:50,490 it's the, you know, obviously noncustodial wallets, all of 345 00:21:50,490 --> 00:21:53,520 that is going to be okay. They really want to stimulate the 346 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,340 development of this in the United States. It seems like 347 00:21:56,340 --> 00:22:00,060 it's all very good. But remember, I'll be as German, the 348 00:22:00,060 --> 00:22:03,780 other the other guys are French. And so I think that's where 349 00:22:03,780 --> 00:22:06,900 there's some, some fear, and I understand that it's, and I'm 350 00:22:06,930 --> 00:22:10,860 not mad about it, I'm mad that we have solutions. There's 351 00:22:10,860 --> 00:22:14,670 another thing that's in play here is this noster mania. 352 00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:18,240 Everybody is doing in Austin, Austin, Austin, Austin, Austin, 353 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,850 Austin Nostra, and they're just like, I don't care about Q send 354 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:21,870 you 355 00:22:21,870 --> 00:22:24,540 Dave Jones: building a social, you're wasting your time 356 00:22:24,540 --> 00:22:29,310 building a social network that nobody wants. Nobody wants that. 357 00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:35,580 Just stop, stop, stop building. The nostre social network is 358 00:22:35,580 --> 00:22:41,370 silly. Nobody wants it. It's everybody has plenty of social 359 00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:44,940 network already in there live. Everybody who's on nostres. Also 360 00:22:44,940 --> 00:22:48,900 on Twitter, what do you need two things. It's just, nobody wants 361 00:22:49,260 --> 00:22:53,160 this crap. Just stop it. Because it's eating up. Everybody's 362 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,970 developer cycles. And they're just spending all of this time 363 00:22:56,970 --> 00:23:03,150 on this complete waste. Like, it's starting to get really 364 00:23:03,150 --> 00:23:06,180 irritating, because there's real problems like this one that 365 00:23:06,180 --> 00:23:10,710 needs to be solved. Like, there's real, like lightning 366 00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:16,350 implementation, dead ends, there are dead ends all over 367 00:23:16,350 --> 00:23:21,000 lightning. And everybody is all the all the developers, these 368 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,630 developers that are that are focused on noster. They're good 369 00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:28,380 developers, these are good programmers, they can be solving 370 00:23:28,380 --> 00:23:32,730 real problems. Instead of wasting their time with this 371 00:23:32,730 --> 00:23:36,630 junk, that it's just silliness. It's complete silliness. And 372 00:23:37,290 --> 00:23:43,710 it's again, another example of the the the Bitcoin ecosystem, 373 00:23:44,580 --> 00:23:50,640 tending to just like, they get going super fast, and then they 374 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,290 just drop off a cliff. But they've completely miss all of 375 00:23:55,290 --> 00:24:01,770 the signs in it and just drive completely off a cliff. Like, we 376 00:24:01,770 --> 00:24:03,600 know one of the reasons I was saying that earlier about 377 00:24:03,630 --> 00:24:08,790 there's all these these platforms are putting in support 378 00:24:08,790 --> 00:24:14,370 for Bitcoin and lightning. Is that now is it is easier now to 379 00:24:14,370 --> 00:24:18,180 onboard people than it's ever been? Yeah. If they had a 380 00:24:18,180 --> 00:24:23,250 wallet, yeah. That's and lightning wallets are like, 381 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:29,790 super simple. It is, should not this should not be, if we had if 382 00:24:29,790 --> 00:24:33,240 there was enough people working on this, gosh, this would be 383 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,530 solved so fast. 384 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,530 Adam Curry: So that's where I'm thinking we might have to solve 385 00:24:37,530 --> 00:24:40,140 it. I mean, I mean, I know I'm feeling that way too. I mean, 386 00:24:40,140 --> 00:24:44,910 let's just let's fork LM bits and fix it and make it work. 387 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,740 Dave Jones: Well see, you know, here's, here's what I would 388 00:24:49,740 --> 00:24:53,850 love. And I'm just going to say, and this is a little bit of 389 00:24:53,850 --> 00:24:57,300 dreaming, but I am but I want to say it out loud too, though, 390 00:24:57,630 --> 00:25:01,470 because it may not be totally out of the question. When, I 391 00:25:01,470 --> 00:25:09,780 mean, ideally to me, somebody, there would be a bigger player 392 00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:14,850 that can handle this sort of thing like strike. Forget it on 393 00:25:14,850 --> 00:25:15,420 the strike, 394 00:25:15,450 --> 00:25:18,930 Adam Curry: they are doing that. Okay? I'm just gonna say strikes 395 00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:21,600 not going to do it. I'm gonna tell you right now, how many 396 00:25:21,930 --> 00:25:24,750 we've pitched a lot of people in the past three and a half, four 397 00:25:24,750 --> 00:25:29,070 years. Some work, some don't. Jack Mahler's is not good. He 398 00:25:29,070 --> 00:25:33,300 has, he's now selling Bitcoin and eath and Mineiro. And he's 399 00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:35,760 going to go public, he's going to be the next coin base, he's, 400 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,930 he's doing a reverse Coinbase Coinbase is finally delivering 401 00:25:39,930 --> 00:25:43,380 with lightning, he's gone from lightning is going to become a 402 00:25:43,380 --> 00:25:47,130 coin base. That's the it's so obvious to me. And by the way, 403 00:25:47,130 --> 00:25:51,750 he comes from the Fiat world. He's a nice guy, nice kid. But 404 00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:58,110 his parents are Fiat. They're the Chicago commodities gang. 405 00:25:58,140 --> 00:26:02,730 It's all fine. But I'm not putting any, any any trust in 406 00:26:02,730 --> 00:26:06,390 that. guy, he's not going to do 407 00:26:07,470 --> 00:26:12,360 Dave Jones: it makes you think that the so I was having this 408 00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:19,170 thought this morning, actually, as, as Bitcoin develops into, 409 00:26:21,180 --> 00:26:25,620 into just sort of a standard piece of collateral, or a 410 00:26:25,620 --> 00:26:28,470 commodity, you know, standard commodity standard assets and or 411 00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:32,640 collateral with it just it just becomes a theme. And it's that's 412 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,360 what's happening right now. We've, it's sort of our Bitcoin 413 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:45,720 has outgrown the sort of people that shepherded it initially, it 414 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:51,750 is, it has outgrown that, it kind of no longer needs, the, 415 00:26:52,590 --> 00:26:56,550 what you might call the maxis, or that that community, it's, 416 00:26:56,550 --> 00:27:02,280 it's now it's just a bigger, it's just a bigger thing. And 417 00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:07,140 because of that, they those, those people don't know what to 418 00:27:07,140 --> 00:27:13,080 do. I mean, they're there, there's no real reason for them 419 00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:16,830 to be out there pumping Bitcoin all the time. And they've, 420 00:27:16,860 --> 00:27:21,000 they've, they're doing silly stuff on the side. And, you 421 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,090 know, I think because, but at this at that, at this point, 422 00:27:24,090 --> 00:27:32,010 though, that these, these things like we, I feel like we could do 423 00:27:32,010 --> 00:27:38,550 something without having to bother with a bunch of, you 424 00:27:38,550 --> 00:27:42,090 know, Ellen URL mafia throwing shade and this kind of thing. 425 00:27:42,090 --> 00:27:45,540 Like, I feel like we could, I felt like we could do a thing, 426 00:27:45,540 --> 00:27:48,780 because I feel like this is just sort of this, this ecosystem has 427 00:27:48,780 --> 00:27:49,740 grown up now. 428 00:27:50,099 --> 00:27:52,559 Adam Curry: And it's a business thing, Dave, I'm happy to do it, 429 00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:56,309 man. I mean, first of all, we've got almost to Bitcoin on our own 430 00:27:56,309 --> 00:28:00,359 node. So we can provide liquidity we have a lot of 431 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:08,249 income, we get this as a mature node, or node has grown up. It's 432 00:28:08,249 --> 00:28:11,369 a mature node, we can put whatever we want. On top of it, 433 00:28:11,369 --> 00:28:16,409 we have great support from from voltage. You know, there's, 434 00:28:16,439 --> 00:28:18,809 there's, there's many ways we can tackle this. But there's, 435 00:28:18,869 --> 00:28:22,769 again, there's really two ways to two things. And now, there's 436 00:28:22,769 --> 00:28:26,729 also a little bit of that, well, you know, Fountain has VC money, 437 00:28:26,729 --> 00:28:32,609 it doesn't take VC money takes elbow grease to do this. For the 438 00:28:32,609 --> 00:28:40,079 apps, there's some very clear, very well tested solutions. And, 439 00:28:40,289 --> 00:28:48,029 and the green light slash breeze SDK is an obvious solution. And 440 00:28:48,029 --> 00:28:51,539 you can implement it and and you don't have to think about it 441 00:28:51,569 --> 00:28:56,159 wallets are spun up on the fly when your customers need them. I 442 00:28:56,159 --> 00:29:00,899 mean, it will it comes down to, are the apps interested in 443 00:29:00,899 --> 00:29:03,359 continuing with value for value? Or do they just want to hand it 444 00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:09,269 all over to one or two players? That's what it comes down to. On 445 00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:14,069 the on the podcaster side, that's something I feel you and 446 00:29:14,069 --> 00:29:18,119 I probably should be doing. Because it's it's, I mean, it's 447 00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:19,379 just there. I mean, even 448 00:29:19,380 --> 00:29:22,110 Dave Jones: if wait on the podcast or side or the listener 449 00:29:22,110 --> 00:29:25,740 side, podcaster side, because the listener side is where the 450 00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:26,550 real problem is. 451 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,790 Adam Curry: It's both sides. The only onboarding path for 452 00:29:29,790 --> 00:29:31,230 podcasters is fountain 453 00:29:34,829 --> 00:29:39,179 Dave Jones: Yeah, but see, you can have you could, like the, 454 00:29:39,809 --> 00:29:42,749 here's the disconnect the podcaster side. 455 00:29:44,910 --> 00:29:47,910 Adam Curry: This is exactly the problem that the Costello's are 456 00:29:47,910 --> 00:29:51,990 struggling with because because they're trying to onboard 457 00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:55,020 musicians, by the way the people haven't figured out or the 458 00:29:55,020 --> 00:29:58,740 horrible, horrible, horrible, evil people that wave Lake, they 459 00:29:58,740 --> 00:30:02,700 figured it out. They're a host In company with wallets, right, 460 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,080 that's what the hosting company is. That's what I said to and 461 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,840 some of the back channels like, Hey, if you have a problem 462 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,870 onboarding artists because you have to send them to fountain to 463 00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:16,410 get a wallet, and that's complicated. It's your business. 464 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,480 You should be providing that. 465 00:30:20,220 --> 00:30:26,850 Dave Jones: What the issue is, like, okay, so you got fountain, 466 00:30:26,970 --> 00:30:30,870 and you've got wave Lake. You got you got two places you can 467 00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:32,010 onboard a podcaster. 468 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,400 Adam Curry: Yes. Well, before music for music. 469 00:30:36,420 --> 00:30:39,360 Dave Jones: Well, yeah, okay for music. Well, no, I even those 470 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,130 wavelike also, does. They do podcast hosting podcast hosting? 471 00:30:44,130 --> 00:30:45,360 Yes. I 472 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:46,050 Adam Curry: didn't know that. 473 00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:49,770 Dave Jones: I mean, but but even in that you could go and but 474 00:30:49,770 --> 00:30:52,410 there's lots of things. I mean, you could you could set up, you 475 00:30:52,410 --> 00:30:55,320 can set up, you know, you set up your own. Now I know it's not 476 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,480 easy. I know. It's not easy to set up your own node or 477 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:02,790 whatever. But, like, the podcaster side, it that's what 478 00:31:02,790 --> 00:31:06,420 that looks like. There are solutions. They may suck, but 479 00:31:06,420 --> 00:31:09,930 they are there are solutions, like setting up your own node. 480 00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:15,180 The listener side with the with the losing of Alby is just a 481 00:31:15,180 --> 00:31:19,230 complete dead end. Yeah, that's, that's what I'm saying is like, 482 00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:25,860 is the listener side is where the supply is, like the supply 483 00:31:25,860 --> 00:31:30,030 of funds. I'm with you. I'm with you. And that is a that is a 484 00:31:30,030 --> 00:31:35,160 complete wasteland at this point. So if you like the, the 485 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:40,110 solution hat really has to start with with listener wallets, 486 00:31:41,130 --> 00:31:46,710 before podcast or wallets? I mean, because you can have tons 487 00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:50,490 of podcast or wallets. But if nobody can pay you, then it was 488 00:31:50,490 --> 00:31:53,880 what good is it? If there's no if there's no listeners with 489 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,410 podcast? Well, here's what 490 00:31:55,860 --> 00:31:59,280 Adam Curry: music Mama says in the boardroom. I've spoken to lb 491 00:31:59,310 --> 00:32:02,220 it's a general fear of the regulator's not worth the risk 492 00:32:02,220 --> 00:32:04,980 long term for them, they will stay in the game they are not 493 00:32:04,980 --> 00:32:08,790 going away, they just will be going to a node in the phone 494 00:32:08,820 --> 00:32:13,710 approach that you must set up a 100,000 sat channel to start 495 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,890 them it's just not going to happen. That's not going to 496 00:32:16,890 --> 00:32:19,770 happen that people won't do it it's 50 bucks and people aren't 497 00:32:19,770 --> 00:32:22,920 going to say oh here's 50 bucks I'm now a podcaster I'm now 498 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,840 musician right 499 00:32:25,980 --> 00:32:30,060 Dave Jones: and and I'll just be honest with you, Adam I mean it 500 00:32:30,570 --> 00:32:36,390 if you're talking about handling you know funds and all this kind 501 00:32:36,390 --> 00:32:39,810 of stuff to this degree then I don't see where you're going to 502 00:32:39,810 --> 00:32:43,140 have to have intermediaries right then I don't see what the 503 00:32:43,140 --> 00:32:48,690 difference is why you even use Bitcoin mining fee 504 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,220 Adam Curry: Good point. Good point. 505 00:32:51,329 --> 00:32:52,949 Dave Jones: Because if we're gonna have to set up something 506 00:32:52,949 --> 00:32:55,559 where there's wallets and we're moving funds and all this kind 507 00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:58,829 of stuff around I mean, what what's the point I'm with you 508 00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:04,739 just set up you know just you know, do escrowed you know 509 00:33:04,739 --> 00:33:10,349 escrowed Fiat wallets and just be a money mover and that's the 510 00:33:10,349 --> 00:33:13,649 problem with with the lightning ecosystem right now is they 511 00:33:13,679 --> 00:33:19,319 they're out there all they're over there doing Tarot. And in 512 00:33:19,319 --> 00:33:25,559 in the in noster. And in the the promise, the original promise of 513 00:33:25,559 --> 00:33:33,809 lightning is just dead is totally dead. And it's like, I 514 00:33:33,809 --> 00:33:40,139 don't know what to do about it. Well, I'm not trying to be 515 00:33:40,139 --> 00:33:40,799 Debbie Downer. 516 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,500 Adam Curry: I'm just no no, no, I'm with you. And we that well. 517 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:45,600 The 518 00:33:49,020 --> 00:33:50,220 Dave Jones: like, well, let's 519 00:33:50,220 --> 00:33:52,590 Adam Curry: let's separate out the issues for a second. First 520 00:33:52,590 --> 00:33:56,070 of all, because music mom was looking for music, mamas camp. 521 00:33:56,730 --> 00:34:05,700 So on the onboarding side for podcasters slash music. That 522 00:34:06,390 --> 00:34:11,700 type of solution needs to come from the hosting companies. And 523 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,780 we can certainly help bootstrap it by providing liquidity to 524 00:34:15,780 --> 00:34:21,360 people because we have enough so we can help bootstrap it but 525 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,640 ultimately, it's it's going to be specific lightning service 526 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:32,250 providers that are going to have to be in that game. For channel 527 00:34:32,250 --> 00:34:34,380 opens and closes and all that stuff. 528 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,620 Dave Jones: Like, okay, let's, if you go back to the beginning, 529 00:34:40,860 --> 00:34:45,720 and you look at why we did this to begin with, it was for two 530 00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:51,900 reasons. Because the progress programmable money allows you to 531 00:34:51,900 --> 00:35:02,100 send people small, micro small amounts of money A without the 532 00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:06,240 exhort without the crazy fees. So there was a it was a fee, 533 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:15,720 saying, but the bigger issue was a deep platforming so that you 534 00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:20,970 have a direct relationship from the listener to the podcaster 535 00:35:20,970 --> 00:35:28,080 with zero intermediaries. Yeah. And like, so if if I'm going to 536 00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:36,960 if I if I'm hosting a show on if I'm hosting a podcast, and all 537 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,340 my advertisers bail out on me, because I took a position 538 00:35:41,370 --> 00:35:45,870 against a war or something that was not that was not kosher, 539 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:53,340 then. And I lost all my money, then I would still have this 540 00:35:53,370 --> 00:35:58,530 other income stream. There was not sort of blockable Yeah, 541 00:35:58,530 --> 00:35:58,650 well, 542 00:35:58,650 --> 00:36:02,070 Adam Curry: she got platform from PayPal or from PayPal. 543 00:36:02,070 --> 00:36:02,370 Yeah. 544 00:36:03,330 --> 00:36:10,410 Dave Jones: So I mean, that was that was the point. If we have 545 00:36:10,410 --> 00:36:13,830 to start putting up intermediaries all over the 546 00:36:13,830 --> 00:36:15,000 place, then. 547 00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:18,090 Adam Curry: Right, but but a lightning service provider is 548 00:36:18,090 --> 00:36:22,560 not really an intermediary, because it's not a custodial 549 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:29,190 thing. It's it's that self custody. It the lightning 550 00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:33,450 service provider just provides the piping. So it's no different 551 00:36:33,450 --> 00:36:36,900 than having a node voltage, unless you want to call that an 552 00:36:36,900 --> 00:36:37,740 intermediary. 553 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,830 Dave Jones: So, I mean, yeah, see what you mean. That 554 00:36:43,830 --> 00:36:45,600 Adam Curry: I mean, that's exactly what Brees does. You 555 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,430 don't even have to open a channel, you just need to get 556 00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:50,910 your first payment. Then you get your first payment, they open a 557 00:36:50,910 --> 00:36:54,900 channel plus 50,000 sets of whatever that first payment was. 558 00:36:55,590 --> 00:37:00,300 And the channels grow and shrink as necessary. But it does 559 00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:03,180 require some some development work. 560 00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:08,880 Dave Jones: It does. No does. It's gonna hit there too. Okay. 561 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:15,210 requires work. And the Yeah, I mean, Rando 64 636. Is Brown of 562 00:37:15,210 --> 00:37:17,760 London says overhype. seems promising I mean, yeah, Brown of 563 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,580 London's building stuff. Yeah, that may be waiting Europe. 564 00:37:20,850 --> 00:37:22,890 Yeah, he's building a replacement to Alby? 565 00:37:23,940 --> 00:37:26,100 Adam Curry: Is he doing a drop in replacement with with the 566 00:37:26,100 --> 00:37:27,630 API? I 567 00:37:27,630 --> 00:37:30,090 Dave Jones: don't know how to talk to him about it. I don't 568 00:37:30,090 --> 00:37:33,240 think he is. But he may be able to. Yeah, 569 00:37:33,450 --> 00:37:36,390 Adam Curry: but we just I mean, again, we just need more 570 00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:43,020 solutions. We need more solutions. Then, and this 571 00:37:43,020 --> 00:37:45,750 nostril wallet Connect. I've looked at it over and over and 572 00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:49,140 over again. I can't see making it work. And then there's people 573 00:37:49,140 --> 00:37:52,290 saying, well, why don't we just switch to ln URL? Well, we 574 00:37:52,290 --> 00:37:56,220 looked at that. We'd looked at that early on. That's just not 575 00:37:56,220 --> 00:37:57,000 going to fly? 576 00:37:57,750 --> 00:38:01,500 Dave Jones: Well, I don't see. You know, the we've talked about 577 00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:04,740 the problems with that in the past with the slowness and the 578 00:38:04,740 --> 00:38:09,210 difficulty on the edge node on the edge application. But I 579 00:38:09,210 --> 00:38:12,030 mean, regardless of that, I still don't see how that helps. 580 00:38:13,140 --> 00:38:16,380 Because you're you're Elon URL. I mean, you had the wallet on 581 00:38:16,380 --> 00:38:17,160 both. Yeah. 582 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,500 Adam Curry: So the reason why it's so called helps, because 583 00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:23,160 that's what everybody's doing. All the development is moving 584 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,060 towards ln URL and nostril wallet connect, and everyone's 585 00:38:27,060 --> 00:38:29,250 supporting it with you know, they're supporting themselves 586 00:38:29,250 --> 00:38:31,980 into a hole of doom. You 587 00:38:31,980 --> 00:38:34,650 Dave Jones: know, there again, I get that all that stuff works 588 00:38:34,650 --> 00:38:38,970 fine for the podcaster wallet. The listener wallet. Yeah, none 589 00:38:38,970 --> 00:38:39,660 of that helps. 590 00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:42,120 Adam Curry: Yeah, but there's a solution. There's a solution 591 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,600 right there today it does keys and then it can work you can 592 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,810 implement it. I don't believe there's any costs except for 593 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,920 breeze takes, you know, a piece for the setup. 594 00:38:56,220 --> 00:38:58,080 Dave Jones: Let's have a look at it had to get back in there and 595 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,940 look and look at the you know, it's it. It is a gut punch when 596 00:39:02,940 --> 00:39:04,950 you think some of these things are solved problems, and then 597 00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:08,460 they come back. And you're like, Well, I guess it wasn't a solved 598 00:39:08,460 --> 00:39:09,240 problem. Well, no, 599 00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:12,420 Adam Curry: but I also think it's, it's our people really in 600 00:39:12,420 --> 00:39:17,130 it. You know, our, I mean, I use podcast guru and I still have an 601 00:39:17,130 --> 00:39:20,460 lb Wallet. So that works great. Sometimes I switch the pod 602 00:39:20,460 --> 00:39:25,500 verse, sometimes they use a fountain. But if people aren't 603 00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:28,950 in it, then they won't support it. And then you know, then it's 604 00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:33,600 all gonna go to a couple of players. Right, which is fine. I 605 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:40,200 know what I'll be promoting. Because I believe in it. I 606 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:41,310 believe in it, Dave. 607 00:39:43,650 --> 00:39:45,840 Dave Jones: I believe on 608 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,250 Adam Curry: that. On that note. On an up note, the band's in 609 00:39:50,250 --> 00:39:57,510 Bitcoin 24 Nashville is it will be held around the same time as 610 00:39:57,510 --> 00:40:07,890 the Bitcoin Conference. It'll be Let me see. Oh, it'd be at the 611 00:40:08,010 --> 00:40:12,990 they have a Embassy Suites who have generously donated space 612 00:40:12,990 --> 00:40:17,220 and service staff to phantom power media. And they're going 613 00:40:17,220 --> 00:40:22,470 to be hosting just a ton of bands. And they're going to set 614 00:40:23,100 --> 00:40:28,890 all of the all of the bands up with with wallet somehow. They 615 00:40:28,890 --> 00:40:31,440 may be fountain wallets, but the most of them up with something 616 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,010 somehow. And it's going to, they're going to do just these 617 00:40:35,010 --> 00:40:40,500 live shows. And I'm pretty sure they're set to go with a live 618 00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:47,280 stream, which will switch the value blocks as they go. What I 619 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:53,520 would like to appeal to Eric P P. I don't know if he can do it. 620 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,270 But I'd like to appeal to Eric peopIe. If there could be a heli 621 00:40:57,270 --> 00:41:02,670 pad version. This is what I'd be looking at how LeapPad version 622 00:41:03,210 --> 00:41:08,220 that can display everything that it does now because I love how 623 00:41:08,250 --> 00:41:13,470 love how it looks, how it you know, how it comes through. With 624 00:41:13,470 --> 00:41:16,920 a live stream, so just a page you can send people to and there 625 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,560 it is, you know, so there'll be a split to this one node. And 626 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,160 this one page just displays all the booster grams that come in 627 00:41:24,420 --> 00:41:27,870 with the live because there'll be video, live audio and or 628 00:41:27,870 --> 00:41:33,420 video, so that people can be sent to a page to be a part of 629 00:41:34,170 --> 00:41:40,170 the bans and Bitcoin by remote, so obviously, in all the apps 630 00:41:41,070 --> 00:41:44,190 for sure, because it'll be a feed so it's in all the apps. 631 00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:48,000 But then there's one page, you know, like the guys are always 632 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,170 doing like these crazy pages that the blueberry did for 12 633 00:41:52,170 --> 00:41:55,530 rods, you know, a page we can see stuff happening, I don't 634 00:41:55,530 --> 00:41:59,640 care if it's who does it, but someone needs to do that. Yeah, 635 00:41:59,790 --> 00:42:04,260 and then that'll be the same page they'll display in the 636 00:42:04,260 --> 00:42:08,610 venue on screens. So people can get a real experience of the 637 00:42:08,610 --> 00:42:13,590 round robin of it'll say use these apps to participate to 638 00:42:13,590 --> 00:42:16,830 boost etc that needs to be created. 639 00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:22,530 Dave Jones: Can I add that I would like to add something to 640 00:42:22,530 --> 00:42:27,510 this for and this is this is the Costello's they're putting this 641 00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:36,690 on okay let me add something to that part. Part of the part of 642 00:42:36,690 --> 00:42:44,310 this event needs to be a explanation of the problem that 643 00:42:44,310 --> 00:42:48,540 we just talked about are sort of an appeal an appeal I'm sorry an 644 00:42:48,540 --> 00:43:02,130 appeal to Bitcoin developers who see the vision for for music and 645 00:43:02,130 --> 00:43:07,260 by virtue of that podcast as well. So an appeal and appeal 646 00:43:07,260 --> 00:43:12,720 through this event that this is only things like that event are 647 00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:18,330 only possible and only work and are only successful when there 648 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:23,970 are listener side wallet solutions. Yes. And because of 649 00:43:23,970 --> 00:43:31,230 that we there needs to be more people jumping in that game. I 650 00:43:31,230 --> 00:43:35,370 mean, that's because I feel like because what will happen the 651 00:43:35,370 --> 00:43:40,110 reason is good to have an appeal at a place in an event like that 652 00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:44,790 is because if there are no listener side wallets, there's 653 00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:48,870 no there's no event right there's no event is won't 654 00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:51,840 doesn't work. There's just simply no event right? Because 655 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:58,470 there's nobody to pay you so like that's here's here's what 656 00:43:58,470 --> 00:44:03,030 I'm leaning on though like where my mind is keeps shifting is 657 00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:11,880 that there has to be we have to get some success Let me see how 658 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:16,560 I want to explain this. Um, I'm perfectly happy to build 659 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,890 something but we can't build everything. 660 00:44:20,460 --> 00:44:21,810 Adam Curry: Yes we can. DAVE 661 00:44:23,130 --> 00:44:27,810 Dave Jones: Yes, we can. But we can't you know, we can't build 662 00:44:27,810 --> 00:44:37,470 everything. And the the ideal thing that would happen here is 663 00:44:37,470 --> 00:44:44,400 that Bitcoin some bitcoin. Competent developers get peeled 664 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:52,170 away from noster the naast the master senselessness, yes, and 665 00:44:52,170 --> 00:44:57,300 begin to provide to build an actual solution that people 666 00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:01,680 really care about. That can actually solve a problem. Right? 667 00:45:02,940 --> 00:45:09,930 So I mean, like this is this is probably the fountain fountain 668 00:45:09,930 --> 00:45:15,570 also benefits from there being an an ecosystem of lightning, 669 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,980 infrastructure podcasting infrastructure outside of it. Of 670 00:45:19,980 --> 00:45:24,960 course, if if fountain becomes the only place this stuff is 671 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,250 happening, fountain will be less successful. That's not going to 672 00:45:29,250 --> 00:45:34,770 help them either. So everybody fountain wave like everybody 673 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:40,950 did, like the and I use them as examples of, of sort of, not 674 00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:45,360 silos. That's not what I mean, but like sort of islands that 675 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,690 are that have built something that can be self contained, if 676 00:45:48,690 --> 00:45:55,320 necessary. That does, while that does work. It's not beneficial. 677 00:45:55,350 --> 00:45:59,370 It doesn't it is not a healthy ecosystem for them to exist that 678 00:45:59,370 --> 00:46:04,500 way. They also benefit when there's a healthy ecosystem of 679 00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:07,050 lightning payments going back and forth through the podcasting 680 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:13,410 through open podcasting. And so this is a this is a thing that 681 00:46:13,410 --> 00:46:15,780 we all need to happen. 682 00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:21,690 Adam Curry: And I would I would point to on one hand, for 683 00:46:21,690 --> 00:46:24,750 podcasters, I would point to wave lake as a successful 684 00:46:24,750 --> 00:46:30,060 formula. They take 10%. Yeah, no one seems to be complaining. 685 00:46:31,530 --> 00:46:35,310 Now, it's simple. I got it, I got my hosting, we got 686 00:46:35,310 --> 00:46:36,480 everything all in one go. 687 00:46:37,950 --> 00:46:41,580 Dave Jones: Because as we said before, your alternative is 688 00:46:41,580 --> 00:46:45,570 Spotify, where you get 0%. Right? So if you're a pod, if 689 00:46:45,570 --> 00:46:49,500 you're a musician, and you get 90%, that's 90% More than you 690 00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:50,100 had before. 691 00:46:50,130 --> 00:46:54,240 Adam Curry: Exactly. And you bet you're right. Everybody, we need 692 00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:58,800 much more, much more going on. And it has it just has to be 693 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:03,210 simple. It has to be simple to onboard people. Because we're a 694 00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:06,330 long way away from people setting up nodes and liquidity. 695 00:47:06,330 --> 00:47:08,190 There's just no way. There's no way. 696 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,990 Dave Jones: If you're an if you're a podcaster. And you see 697 00:47:12,990 --> 00:47:18,000 that you are a music or a musician. And you see that, that 698 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,960 you can have some success within within this within that the 699 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,380 podcasting world as let's say, as a musician, like Ainslie, 700 00:47:26,340 --> 00:47:29,820 it's not too big of a lift to set up, you know, to set up a 701 00:47:29,820 --> 00:47:33,090 node. It's not the end of the world. Yes, it's a little 702 00:47:33,090 --> 00:47:36,930 difficult, but it's not the end of the world. But if you're a 703 00:47:37,140 --> 00:47:39,690 bit if you're a listener in the app, 704 00:47:40,770 --> 00:47:44,160 Adam Curry: it's world ending. Yes, that's obviously yes. 705 00:47:44,220 --> 00:47:47,580 You're just even even going somewhere else to get a wallet 706 00:47:47,580 --> 00:47:53,400 and connect. It is a big lift. Yes, like, what am I doing now? 707 00:47:54,210 --> 00:47:56,550 Dave Jones: Yeah, exactly. Because you're having to, like, 708 00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,390 on the podcaster side, you just set up a node, open a channel, 709 00:48:00,780 --> 00:48:04,440 you're good to go. On the on the listener side? What do you you 710 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,830 got to KYC? yourself, you got to do all this stuff. I mean, it is 711 00:48:07,890 --> 00:48:11,310 it's just, I'm not going to keep beating this horse. But the 712 00:48:11,310 --> 00:48:17,940 listener side is where all the problems are. And, and I will, 713 00:48:18,540 --> 00:48:21,870 I'm glad we discussed this, I will start looking in in 714 00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:26,490 brainstorming this for a potential solution. We'll we'll 715 00:48:26,490 --> 00:48:31,740 talk about it. And but you know, I do want, I don't think we can, 716 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,370 I don't think it's realistic for us to have to build for us to be 717 00:48:35,370 --> 00:48:43,320 able to build and maintain everything we do. Other because 718 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,260 the other problem here, here's the other issue. When we build 719 00:48:46,260 --> 00:48:49,410 it, it tends to dissuade other people from from building 720 00:48:49,410 --> 00:48:54,540 things. Good point. You know, I mean, like, it's almost 721 00:48:54,540 --> 00:49:01,350 detrimental to the ecosystem when we build it. So yeah, I 722 00:49:01,350 --> 00:49:02,520 don't want that to happen, either. 723 00:49:02,550 --> 00:49:04,710 Adam Curry: No, no, I'm with you. I'm with you on that. Well, 724 00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:08,130 I, again, I'm just I've looked at the docs over and over again, 725 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,120 of the breeze SDK, it seems like a very elegant solution. But 726 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,080 it's not a drop in replacement. I don't think it's it's a huge 727 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:23,370 lift. But there's work is required. But you know, it's 728 00:49:23,370 --> 00:49:31,380 something that is self self custody of your of your user. 729 00:49:32,310 --> 00:49:36,270 You know, they they own it, you don't have any responsibility 730 00:49:36,270 --> 00:49:42,270 over it. And you don't have to worry much about it not working. 731 00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:47,040 I mean, they've been in business for a long time. Yeah. And 732 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,490 there's others who are either doing this or we'll be doing 733 00:49:50,490 --> 00:49:54,030 this because it's the business model for lightning is the 734 00:49:54,030 --> 00:49:58,290 lightning service provider. It just is the business model. 735 00:50:00,329 --> 00:50:05,159 Dave Jones: I mean, it is, well, Nathan asked is the breeze SDK? 736 00:50:05,159 --> 00:50:06,299 Is that mobile? Only? 737 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:11,910 Adam Curry: I believe so. I believe so. I think it is, is 738 00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:17,760 it? I think so. But block block has a has their own version. 739 00:50:18,450 --> 00:50:22,290 There's lots of versions out there, of this idea of the 740 00:50:22,290 --> 00:50:28,860 lightning service provider idea. And it has been my understanding 741 00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:32,010 that that's what voltage was going to be doing as well, I 742 00:50:32,010 --> 00:50:34,140 don't think there's far along and they were going to be doing 743 00:50:34,140 --> 00:50:38,340 it more for, you know, with air flow product or whatever. So you 744 00:50:38,340 --> 00:50:42,900 can just get get inbound liquidity on demand. But you 745 00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:48,300 know, but what is, and again, that's not, that's probably not 746 00:50:48,300 --> 00:50:51,420 going to work for the for the listener side, but I'm with you 747 00:50:51,420 --> 00:50:54,090 on that there's a huge opportunity for the listener 748 00:50:54,090 --> 00:50:58,470 side, make it easy for apps to integrate, or at least, you 749 00:50:58,470 --> 00:51:02,550 know, make something available. And the apps will put it in if 750 00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:04,770 if they're interested in being part of the ecosystem. 751 00:51:05,460 --> 00:51:08,130 Dave Jones: The other problem with us doing it is I don't, I 752 00:51:08,130 --> 00:51:10,200 don't like I don't like the way it looks. 753 00:51:11,550 --> 00:51:13,770 Adam Curry: I mean, I'm with you, because it 754 00:51:13,770 --> 00:51:16,440 Dave Jones: makes it look like it's like all of this is just 755 00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:21,630 us. And I don't know, I just liked the separation of, of 756 00:51:21,630 --> 00:51:24,870 seeing that other people are doing stuff and making making 757 00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:28,950 money off these things. And it's not. Yeah, it's not us, you 758 00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:33,210 know? Yeah. Well, but again, I don't want to make money off of 759 00:51:33,210 --> 00:51:37,110 this, because it's not. I mean, if we have to, if we have to, we 760 00:51:37,110 --> 00:51:40,560 have to, but I don't, I don't want to do it. The way that 761 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:41,310 makes me think 762 00:51:41,610 --> 00:51:44,010 Adam Curry: you're so right, because the whole reason we kept 763 00:51:44,010 --> 00:51:49,080 LM pay going because the index paid for it was Yeah, to make 764 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,110 sure that, that we bootstrapped it and then everyone just went 765 00:51:52,110 --> 00:51:54,570 Oh, great. And then no one built anything. 766 00:51:55,140 --> 00:51:58,350 Dave Jones: Yes. As the summer says, it's it's it's way he says 767 00:51:58,350 --> 00:52:01,980 his wave Leakey for Pei Pei to offer wallets and the index and 768 00:52:01,980 --> 00:52:02,700 namespace Yeah, I 769 00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:05,700 Adam Curry: agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. 770 00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:09,780 Dave Jones: But, but we could we could build something as a 771 00:52:09,780 --> 00:52:13,470 reference, I guess, and then say, okay, we're not somebody 772 00:52:13,470 --> 00:52:17,160 here. Somebody else, please run this, I guess. And I don't know. 773 00:52:19,110 --> 00:52:20,970 Adam Curry: How to think about it. Yeah. All right. Well, thank 774 00:52:20,970 --> 00:52:23,790 you. Should we play a song now just to get our heads clear, 775 00:52:24,270 --> 00:52:27,750 Dave Jones: though? Yes. Is the world premiere this is it's not 776 00:52:27,750 --> 00:52:29,520 Adam Curry: just world premiere. It's planetary premiere, my 777 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:33,330 friend, galactic galactic galactic premiere, but I really 778 00:52:33,420 --> 00:52:36,720 want everyone to get ready. I really would appreciate it. If 779 00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:41,670 you boosted this song. No matter what the amount is, we just want 780 00:52:41,670 --> 00:52:43,890 as many boosts as possible I'm actually going to close the 781 00:52:43,890 --> 00:52:49,290 channel so doesn't interrupt the track. So we can show these 782 00:52:49,290 --> 00:52:53,640 musicians who are making nothing on Spotify. That value for value 783 00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,320 has a place in their life 784 00:52:56,340 --> 00:52:59,190 Dave Jones: that I set that up right. Oh, you nailed it. Okay. 785 00:52:59,730 --> 00:52:59,910 So 786 00:52:59,910 --> 00:53:02,190 Adam Curry: here it is a people pleaser Ainsley Costello, this 787 00:53:02,190 --> 00:53:04,320 is the planetary premiere everybody 788 00:53:10,260 --> 00:53:11,160 Unknown: was watching. 789 00:53:55,080 --> 00:54:00,570 Adam Curry: You can break through it no more mistakes 790 00:54:17,790 --> 00:54:18,900 Unknown: going down. 791 00:54:58,140 --> 00:55:00,450 Back Relax 792 00:55:21,090 --> 00:55:27,780 Adam Curry: yo, nice that's what we call an ending All right, 793 00:55:27,780 --> 00:55:29,430 thank you all very very much. 794 00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,010 Dave Jones: I guess people were pleased and yeah, it was done. 795 00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,050 Yes. People were pleased. 796 00:55:34,290 --> 00:55:36,240 Adam Curry: And everybody boosted. I even boosted. 797 00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,480 Everybody boosted. Everybody boosted. Good job, everybody. 798 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,960 Thank you. Thank you. That's Ainslie with the Nashville 799 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,080 collaborators. Let's make them happy. If you're listening to 800 00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,720 this as the podcast, you can always stop, go back and boost 801 00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:52,830 again. It all works. It's magic that way. It's magic. 802 00:55:54,420 --> 00:55:55,590 Dave Jones: The track I like it. No, I 803 00:55:55,590 --> 00:55:58,920 Adam Curry: was great track. I'd it's it's Poppy, man. 804 00:55:59,790 --> 00:56:01,350 Dave Jones: It's good to hear a new Ainsley track. 805 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:06,300 Adam Curry: Yes, it is indeed. Been well. My left ear kind of 806 00:56:06,300 --> 00:56:06,930 blew out on 807 00:56:08,310 --> 00:56:12,690 Dave Jones: Oh, crap. Yeah. It blew Well, is it smoking? No. 808 00:56:12,690 --> 00:56:17,220 Adam Curry: So like, it happens to you when you get to my age. 809 00:56:17,220 --> 00:56:18,840 Dave, you'll know what I'm talking about. 810 00:56:18,990 --> 00:56:20,850 Dave Jones: You get the high pitch squeal. 811 00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,180 Adam Curry: Thank God no, no, thank God. Although at night 812 00:56:24,180 --> 00:56:31,980 when I'm in bed, I do hear just like General was that from? No, 813 00:56:31,980 --> 00:56:33,240 it's age. 814 00:56:34,110 --> 00:56:35,670 Dave Jones: Old man old dude. Yeah, just 815 00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:38,250 Adam Curry: an old by the way, the bands and Bitcoin. They also 816 00:56:38,250 --> 00:56:40,440 have I put it in the show notes. They have a geyser fund 817 00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:46,140 fundraiser. I also boosted that before because they obviously it 818 00:56:46,140 --> 00:56:49,410 cost money. So they're looking for help on setting up that 819 00:56:49,410 --> 00:56:51,810 event. So that's all in the band. 820 00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:53,760 Dave Jones: Lighting. Yeah, yeah, 821 00:56:53,820 --> 00:56:55,830 Adam Curry: I did it. I actually use breeze. It worked 822 00:56:55,830 --> 00:57:00,360 beautifully. So we had a big win today or this week with the 823 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:01,470 Pocket Casts. 824 00:57:02,670 --> 00:57:05,340 Dave Jones: Yeah, so that said they're gonna support transcript 825 00:57:05,340 --> 00:57:06,000 and pod roll. 826 00:57:06,030 --> 00:57:08,190 Adam Curry: Well, as I was listening to the pod news, 827 00:57:08,190 --> 00:57:12,030 weekly review, I actually heard the young woman what's her name? 828 00:57:12,060 --> 00:57:15,360 Because we pitched this to them two years ago. We pitched the 829 00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:18,360 match two years ago. And she referred to that as Oh, we knew 830 00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,250 about this two years ago, because I remember you and I did 831 00:57:20,250 --> 00:57:23,580 a zoom with Matt. And then we met Matt from automatic. They 832 00:57:23,580 --> 00:57:27,900 own their own pocket cast. And we pitched it. And I think I 833 00:57:27,900 --> 00:57:31,500 followed up with Matt. And then we got another talk to the 834 00:57:31,500 --> 00:57:34,470 project leads. And they've started to implement their small 835 00:57:34,470 --> 00:57:36,450 team, but they started to implement but as I heard her 836 00:57:36,450 --> 00:57:40,980 speaking, I heard her slip in V for V. Oh, well, she said V for 837 00:57:40,980 --> 00:57:43,230 v. So they didn't hear 838 00:57:43,230 --> 00:57:44,250 Dave Jones: that I missed 839 00:57:44,250 --> 00:57:48,480 Adam Curry: the Hey, I heard it. I heard it. But this is this is 840 00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,720 uh, this is great. This is a great game changer for 841 00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:56,340 podcasting to have a an app of that size to validate that it's 842 00:57:56,340 --> 00:58:00,840 a real thing. It lives in all boats. Very, very happy. Very 843 00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:01,770 happy with that. 844 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:07,500 Dave Jones: agreed and like they they are ones that could you 845 00:58:07,500 --> 00:58:12,930 know, the thing I want most from Pocket Casts specifically, is 846 00:58:12,930 --> 00:58:17,340 cross app comments over activity pub. Yes. I think they are 847 00:58:17,340 --> 00:58:21,900 positioned better than anybody else to make that happen. Yes. 848 00:58:21,930 --> 00:58:24,540 Because Because automatic 849 00:58:25,620 --> 00:58:28,500 Adam Curry: bots. Yeah, they're all in on activity pub, right 850 00:58:28,500 --> 00:58:30,240 Dave Jones: activity pub. Yeah, they bought that WordPress 851 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,780 activity pub plugins, and they can integrate it directly. So I 852 00:58:33,780 --> 00:58:38,310 mean, they I think they have definitely the resources to go 853 00:58:38,310 --> 00:58:43,800 in and put activity pub into into a yes app like Pocket 854 00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:44,250 Casts. 855 00:58:44,580 --> 00:58:49,020 Adam Curry: And on that note, true fan Sam and, and Benjamin 856 00:58:49,050 --> 00:58:53,820 caster, PA, they're working on integrating their activity 857 00:58:53,820 --> 00:58:58,680 streams through activity pub, which is great. 858 00:58:59,940 --> 00:59:03,570 Dave Jones: You know, a clip. So a clever podcast app, 859 00:59:04,110 --> 00:59:05,610 Adam Curry: only the clever ones now. 860 00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:15,540 Dave Jones: Could could simply follow podcasts on the bridge. 861 00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:24,480 And inhale and just always be up to date. That's right. You also 862 00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:29,760 like you could have a podcast app that that built activity pub 863 00:59:30,540 --> 00:59:35,640 into its core. And then they follow it when you follow 864 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:40,920 podcasts. It's using the the index to do search. And then 865 00:59:42,030 --> 00:59:51,660 instead of instead of using the API to pull more data, it could 866 00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:56,310 subscribe to the podcast feed obviously like normal, but then 867 00:59:56,310 --> 00:59:59,970 look for updates through activity pub, wait for the push 868 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,030 is basically that you would have want you would have a simple 869 01:00:03,030 --> 01:00:08,850 back end a little $5 a month back end. That just does nothing 870 01:00:09,300 --> 01:00:13,830 at all it was you just have no no it's not even sniffing they 871 01:00:13,830 --> 01:00:18,810 know they there's not even any sniffing it. It just open it 872 01:00:18,810 --> 01:00:23,220 opens up a shared inbox. It has a shared inbox URL through 873 01:00:23,220 --> 01:00:27,690 activity pub. And then it follows into treats each each of 874 01:00:27,690 --> 01:00:32,670 its users as an actor. Do you hear that chicken? Yeah, 875 01:00:33,150 --> 01:00:33,570 actually, 876 01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,700 Adam Curry: I just did my headphone offices and on my end 877 01:00:35,730 --> 01:00:38,910 what I have no fear your checks baby's Dave's chicks. 878 01:00:39,300 --> 01:00:41,400 Dave Jones: These chickens are going nuts. I sent you a picture 879 01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:47,550 of them in the bucket. The so you would have you would have 880 01:00:47,550 --> 01:00:53,400 each each listener would be an actor. On your activity pub back 881 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:58,260 end, in as when somebody follows a podcast it follows the bridge 882 01:00:58,290 --> 01:01:02,670 for that podcast. And then it just waits to be notified when 883 01:01:02,670 --> 01:01:05,280 there's a new episode. By the way, just push it all the way 884 01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:05,610 through. 885 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:10,530 Adam Curry: Your chicks are cute. What's the bowl with the 886 01:01:10,530 --> 01:01:12,330 Roxanne? What's that all about? 887 01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,540 Dave Jones: Well, since they're there, they're so tiny that if 888 01:01:15,690 --> 01:01:19,110 they drown they've they'll drown in the bowl. Yeah. Rocks. And so 889 01:01:19,110 --> 01:01:20,010 they came to the bottom. 890 01:01:20,100 --> 01:01:21,720 Adam Curry: Have you already found one dead? 891 01:01:22,530 --> 01:01:25,230 Dave Jones: No, no. No dead ones. Yeah. 892 01:01:25,230 --> 01:01:27,510 Adam Curry: What's What's the vacuum hose there? What's the? 893 01:01:30,420 --> 01:01:32,670 Dave Jones: Yeah, that's one of the legs that the heaters like 894 01:01:32,670 --> 01:01:37,860 threaded rods with the low heat past. Oh, cool. Yeah. cubes. 895 01:01:38,310 --> 01:01:40,560 They're all up under that heat thing right now. I can't see any 896 01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:42,090 of them. They're just Yeah. Do 897 01:01:42,090 --> 01:01:44,220 Adam Curry: you mind? post this in the in the board meeting in 898 01:01:44,220 --> 01:01:46,410 the boardroom? Oh, no, go ahead. Yeah, that's cool. I want people 899 01:01:46,410 --> 01:01:47,280 to be able to see this. 900 01:01:48,300 --> 01:01:51,570 Dave Jones: But you could you could do that you could build 901 01:01:51,570 --> 01:01:57,570 your app with with an activity pub core. And then not have to 902 01:01:57,570 --> 01:02:04,350 really do any feed polling at all. Period. None. And then 903 01:02:04,890 --> 01:02:08,370 you're already set up with for cross out comments. 904 01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:12,000 Adam Curry: I love it. By love it only clever, clever, clever. 905 01:02:12,450 --> 01:02:16,110 Clever. Has. I have a have a namespace question that makes 906 01:02:16,110 --> 01:02:18,810 sure because if it doesn't do it, we need to figure out how to 907 01:02:18,810 --> 01:02:23,970 do it. And so I've been working on this on this product on this 908 01:02:23,970 --> 01:02:32,640 project to return local radio to Well, so what radio? This all 909 01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:38,160 kind of comes from a couple of things. One is the the cumulus 910 01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:45,540 media 2024 audio scope. Data that pod News reported on 911 01:02:46,770 --> 01:02:48,960 Dave Jones: miss that I didn't see. Well, 912 01:02:48,990 --> 01:02:53,490 Adam Curry: it basically says radios dead. It's not exactly 913 01:02:53,490 --> 01:02:58,470 what it says. But it does say podcast audiences have scale 914 01:02:58,500 --> 01:03:02,940 among 25 to 50 fours, which is very important because the 915 01:03:02,940 --> 01:03:06,930 concept that only young people listen to podcast is clearly not 916 01:03:06,930 --> 01:03:13,950 true. So up to 54 is not in the young person range. As old 917 01:03:13,950 --> 01:03:16,560 dudes, if you listen to podcasts, they are your number 918 01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:22,380 one audio platform, you know so. So podcast, people who listen to 919 01:03:22,380 --> 01:03:25,080 podcasts and that number is increased increasing listen to 920 01:03:25,110 --> 01:03:29,520 32% of their listening time this podcast 22% Is is am or FM 921 01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:35,370 radio. The median age of podcast audience is about 34, which is 922 01:03:35,370 --> 01:03:38,760 actually quite good. Now here's the one that that kind of the 923 01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,120 think is interesting because it's happening to all 924 01:03:42,180 --> 01:03:46,620 traditional media distribution platforms. The podcast audience 925 01:03:46,620 --> 01:03:49,680 is 13 years younger than median age of am FM radio listeners and 926 01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,560 22 years younger than linear television where audiences have 927 01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:57,720 a median age of 56. TV is what's playing in God's waiting room. 928 01:03:59,730 --> 01:04:00,210 Wow. 929 01:04:03,810 --> 01:04:06,990 Dave Jones: Did you see the average Did you see that? I 930 01:04:06,990 --> 01:04:09,270 don't know if this is same report. I don't think it is that 931 01:04:09,540 --> 01:04:13,290 that listed the average Oh, oh yeah, that's yours. Yeah, MTV 932 01:04:13,290 --> 01:04:15,390 that everyday just. Yeah, 933 01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:18,510 Adam Curry: I know. It's not immediate. It's median age. Not 934 01:04:18,510 --> 01:04:20,040 average median age, but 935 01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:24,240 Dave Jones: average. The median age of an MSNBC viewer was like 936 01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:24,870 70 to 937 01:04:24,870 --> 01:04:29,190 Adam Curry: 70 Yeah, no, no. So it comes on so I believe that 938 01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:34,770 you can't save radio with towers. But what we lost with 939 01:04:34,770 --> 01:04:40,590 radio is local programming. Now why did local program so you 940 01:04:40,590 --> 01:04:44,160 know, a even New York I mean, I've I was in New York for many 941 01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:49,290 years. And the whether it's Elvis Duran on Z 100 Or if it's 942 01:04:49,830 --> 01:04:57,810 the Charlemagne to God, and he's on Z on camera what he's on. But 943 01:04:57,810 --> 01:05:00,690 you know, they're not New York local shows. anymore. They're 944 01:05:00,690 --> 01:05:04,770 syndicated nationally. Yeah, sure. In between songs. Yeah. 945 01:05:04,770 --> 01:05:08,700 It's Elvis Duran, z 100. New York. Okay, sure. But they're no 946 01:05:08,700 --> 01:05:13,200 longer talking just about it's all national issues. And we 947 01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:18,300 still have some like Cody, who works in Kerrville, which is, 948 01:05:18,300 --> 01:05:22,230 you know, old school rock station, the rock of Texas, no, 949 01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:26,460 small signal. We have Hill Country FM out here, but they're 950 01:05:26,460 --> 01:05:29,460 dying. And why are they dying because all the local 951 01:05:29,460 --> 01:05:33,030 advertising has been slurped up by Facebook. And it's 952 01:05:33,030 --> 01:05:37,230 successful. Now, if if you want to sell something locally, it's 953 01:05:37,230 --> 01:05:42,360 going to be you know, it's going to be done on on Facebook and 954 01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:46,860 stuff like that. But we still need local programming. In fact, 955 01:05:46,890 --> 01:05:50,910 we need it now more than ever. So my kind of this thing I'm 956 01:05:50,910 --> 01:05:56,190 working on with some people is to recreate that, too, bring 957 01:05:56,190 --> 01:06:01,290 back local programming. And this is where that playlist thing 958 01:06:01,290 --> 01:06:06,060 that I was talking about two or three weeks ago comes into play. 959 01:06:06,060 --> 01:06:08,760 And I just want to make sure I understand how the playlists 960 01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:12,060 work, because I think I think I'm incorrect, or I was my 961 01:06:12,060 --> 01:06:16,860 assumptions were wrong. Okay, but what I'd like to see, if I 962 01:06:16,860 --> 01:06:21,150 have a playlist, and I put in that playlist, can I put in that 963 01:06:21,150 --> 01:06:24,480 playlist shows? Or do can I only put episodes in that playlist? 964 01:06:25,830 --> 01:06:27,030 Dave Jones: Episodes? Ah, 965 01:06:28,620 --> 01:06:32,160 Adam Curry: what I think I'm looking for, is what an OPML 966 01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:39,840 subscription list used to do. Okay, so if I wait, 967 01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:43,230 Dave Jones: let me let me let me get back Hang on, say, the 968 01:06:43,230 --> 01:06:47,820 remote, the remote item, doesn't it? The remote item allows 969 01:06:47,820 --> 01:06:50,010 either a feed or an episode to be 970 01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:53,010 Adam Curry: it does allow a feed. Right? Okay. So it does 971 01:06:53,010 --> 01:06:54,210 allow a feed but but 972 01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,980 Dave Jones: that's it's the context that matters that 973 01:06:58,980 --> 01:07:02,910 dictates what those things are. A play list is expecting items. 974 01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:03,390 Okay? 975 01:07:03,690 --> 01:07:06,450 Adam Curry: Let me explain what I want. Okay, then we'll figure 976 01:07:06,450 --> 01:07:10,470 out how we make it happen. Because it's important to me. So 977 01:07:10,500 --> 01:07:12,630 I'm just going down, it means I'm just going to be hammering 978 01:07:12,630 --> 01:07:18,300 on it. What I want is I want to be able to say I want to 979 01:07:18,300 --> 01:07:25,200 subscribe to Adam curry station. And I can go into a podcast app. 980 01:07:25,230 --> 01:07:29,100 I mean, I can look for Adam curry station. And it'll be 981 01:07:29,100 --> 01:07:34,410 something I can subscribe to. And that station may include 982 01:07:34,770 --> 01:07:41,820 similar to a pod roll. The five shows that I think are great, 983 01:07:42,090 --> 01:07:45,750 but when you subscribe to my station, you will get the most 984 01:07:45,750 --> 01:07:49,590 recent episode from those five shows that I think are great. 985 01:07:51,900 --> 01:07:55,380 Okay. Do we have something that does that now? 986 01:07:57,930 --> 01:08:06,810 Dave Jones: Okay, so let you let you have W, W K. RB. And you're 987 01:08:06,810 --> 01:08:10,020 going to be searching for that state. You know that local 988 01:08:10,020 --> 01:08:15,210 station in your podcast app? Yes. And then when you find that 989 01:08:15,210 --> 01:08:18,990 you're going to subscribe to it. Yes. And what you're gonna get 990 01:08:18,990 --> 01:08:23,460 is a list of the IS is the each episode is a program in their 991 01:08:23,460 --> 01:08:29,490 programming lineup. The last in reverse chronological correct 992 01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:30,900 with the rest recent to the oldest 993 01:08:30,899 --> 01:08:34,289 Adam Curry: correct. And then I'd also like to take a 994 01:08:34,289 --> 01:08:37,919 percentage of that as my radio station on the ministry 995 01:08:38,729 --> 01:08:44,609 Dave Jones: of I mean, off the cuff. That's just a feed. That's 996 01:08:44,609 --> 01:08:46,739 just a part. That's just a podcast feed. 997 01:08:47,159 --> 01:08:50,309 Adam Curry: Yes, it's a podcast. It's a dynamic podcast feed. 998 01:08:51,179 --> 01:08:51,629 Right? 999 01:08:51,900 --> 01:08:54,120 Dave Jones: Right. Yeah. Which is not a problem we did that 1000 01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,280 with with 100% retro. 1001 01:09:01,949 --> 01:09:08,789 Because 100% Retro underpinned retro was live. You know, we we 1002 01:09:08,789 --> 01:09:12,779 were updating it every I think it was every, every time the 1003 01:09:12,779 --> 01:09:15,449 programming every time the programming grid change to the 1004 01:09:15,449 --> 01:09:18,329 next. Okay, yeah, broken. Okay, we updated the fee. 1005 01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:22,019 Adam Curry: All right, but it's not a linear radio station. It's 1006 01:09:22,019 --> 01:09:26,699 not a stream. It's not a linear radio station. It's literally so 1007 01:09:26,699 --> 01:09:31,889 as a part of my syndication, I'm going to be promoting atom, 1008 01:09:31,979 --> 01:09:34,889 Adams local station, that I'm going to put up billboards. I'm 1009 01:09:34,889 --> 01:09:38,309 gonna say, go to Edit, go to your podcast app, your modern 1010 01:09:38,309 --> 01:09:42,419 podcast app and subscribe to my station, because I have the best 1011 01:09:42,419 --> 01:09:46,859 programs. And I'll probably have my podcast in there. But I'll 1012 01:09:46,859 --> 01:09:51,089 also have five others that I think are and hopefully I have a 1013 01:09:51,089 --> 01:09:53,639 relationship with them. But that I think are these great 1014 01:09:53,639 --> 01:09:57,119 podcasts. So when you subscribe, you're actually subscribing to 1015 01:09:57,119 --> 01:10:01,109 the podcast that I recommend. But the Are all appearing under 1016 01:10:01,109 --> 01:10:05,699 my feed my station feed and what you're seeing is the most recent 1017 01:10:05,699 --> 01:10:09,419 episode. That's why I say it was like an OPML when you subscribe 1018 01:10:09,419 --> 01:10:11,459 to an OPML that's how that would work. 1019 01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:16,380 Dave Jones: Okay. So, okay. So what you want to happen is use 1020 01:10:16,410 --> 01:10:22,140 is I searched for W ADM, yes assigned, assigned it. And 1021 01:10:22,170 --> 01:10:26,580 inside that Thiede is a list of is a are references to other 1022 01:10:26,580 --> 01:10:27,150 fields. 1023 01:10:27,269 --> 01:10:32,069 Adam Curry: Yes. And therefore, when I subscribe to it. So just 1024 01:10:32,069 --> 01:10:35,159 like you described a podcast in 2.0, I mean, and you click on 1025 01:10:35,159 --> 01:10:38,519 the podcast and two point o podcasts in your podcast list, 1026 01:10:38,549 --> 01:10:42,569 there's a list of episodes. Now you're subscribing to K, Ada M. 1027 01:10:43,229 --> 01:10:46,109 And then what you see in the episodes is the most recent 1028 01:10:46,109 --> 01:10:51,869 episodes reverse chronological order of those feeds that I have 1029 01:10:51,869 --> 01:10:53,429 referenced. Referenced 1030 01:10:53,430 --> 01:10:56,010 Dave Jones: feeds Yes, yes. So it's following the trail for 1031 01:10:56,010 --> 01:10:58,560 each feed and getting the most recent index sorting them all 1032 01:10:58,560 --> 01:10:59,370 background. Yes. 1033 01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:03,360 Adam Curry: And then for extra bonus points, I want to make my 1034 01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:07,350 station que ADM that I produce, I want to make that sticky at 1035 01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:12,000 the top. So my EPS, my most recent episode is always at the 1036 01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:12,480 top. 1037 01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:15,750 Dave Jones: Yeah, that's all just, this is all just 1038 01:11:15,750 --> 01:11:19,860 programmatic feed generation stuff like so is there a reason 1039 01:11:19,860 --> 01:11:26,430 why you're wanting it? Because, Okay, couple things. Is there a 1040 01:11:26,430 --> 01:11:31,350 reason to do this app side rather than back inside and just 1041 01:11:31,350 --> 01:11:33,570 surf the generated feed? No. 1042 01:11:33,930 --> 01:11:36,990 Adam Curry: Back end side is perfect if I was just a little 1043 01:11:36,990 --> 01:11:41,730 confused, because we had publisher feeds and, and and 1044 01:11:42,660 --> 01:11:47,040 playlists I'm now now that we're talking about it's I love you so 1045 01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:50,490 much, Dave Jones. Now that we're talking about it, it's just a 1046 01:11:50,490 --> 01:11:55,260 back end generation. I think so. Perfect. That's even better. 1047 01:11:55,770 --> 01:12:00,210 That's that's the best. Yay. I love it. 1048 01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:04,020 Dave Jones: I love it. Like, there can be a feed like a 1049 01:12:04,020 --> 01:12:07,260 publisher feed like yeah, this would be you could create a 1050 01:12:07,260 --> 01:12:11,190 publisher feed or a playlist of feeds, but not in but here's 1051 01:12:11,189 --> 01:12:14,069 Adam Curry: the trick. Now, here's the trick. The trick is, 1052 01:12:14,489 --> 01:12:18,929 when you subscribe to K ADM, my feed, and you listen to one of 1053 01:12:18,929 --> 01:12:23,039 the episodes, I want a piece of the split, and then I want the 1054 01:12:23,039 --> 01:12:28,049 remote item of that episode to flow through. Does that make 1055 01:12:28,049 --> 01:12:33,389 sense? So just just like podcasting, 2.0 we take 5% We 1056 01:12:33,389 --> 01:12:36,179 play Ainsley. And the rest is all split however she 1057 01:12:36,179 --> 01:12:36,899 determines. 1058 01:12:38,250 --> 01:12:43,320 Dave Jones: Right? So you're okay, so you're wanting K ADM 1059 01:12:43,380 --> 01:12:48,780 gets gets a percentage and the rest goes to the source? Yes, 1060 01:12:48,810 --> 01:12:54,090 correct. I think I think the best. I think honestly, the best 1061 01:12:54,090 --> 01:12:56,970 way to do that is just with back end fee, generate Perfect, 1062 01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:00,840 perfect, you've solved my problem. The back end ingests 1063 01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:06,720 the playlist and then assembles a feed in dynamically every so 1064 01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:09,570 every few minutes or however long many times it takes it 1065 01:13:09,570 --> 01:13:12,540 assembles a feed with the proper value recipients and all the 1066 01:13:12,540 --> 01:13:17,700 stuff in it. Yes. Yes. So that so that the app doesn't have to 1067 01:13:17,700 --> 01:13:18,360 do a ton of 1068 01:13:18,359 --> 01:13:22,739 Adam Curry: work. Yes. The app just does what it does. already. 1069 01:13:22,769 --> 01:13:23,249 Yeah. 1070 01:13:23,310 --> 01:13:25,050 Dave Jones: Perfect. Yeah. And then and then there's just 1071 01:13:25,050 --> 01:13:27,780 centralist or there would just be didn't need to be some server 1072 01:13:27,810 --> 01:13:31,230 that is doing all these this feed generation and either in 1073 01:13:31,230 --> 01:13:35,100 the either hosting is centrally or farming it back out. Yes. 1074 01:13:35,100 --> 01:13:37,050 These stations can host themselves. Yes, 1075 01:13:37,050 --> 01:13:42,210 Adam Curry: yes. Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Hallelujah. 1076 01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:43,470 Hallelujah. Yes. 1077 01:13:44,070 --> 01:13:44,820 Dave Jones: All right mag. 1078 01:13:46,949 --> 01:13:50,729 Adam Curry: I'm very happy about that. I am tasking myself with 1079 01:13:50,729 --> 01:13:53,339 creating 1000 local stations in America. 1080 01:13:54,810 --> 01:13:57,000 Dave Jones: Yeah, can Nathan's right Katie and would be a feed 1081 01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,460 filled with items pointing to third party hosted enclosures, 1082 01:13:59,460 --> 01:14:03,750 but includes a value station in cut. Yes. That's it. That's it. 1083 01:14:03,870 --> 01:14:07,770 And which is basically exactly what we did for 100%. Retro. 1084 01:14:08,190 --> 01:14:10,620 Adam Curry: Okay, that's it. I've got it. I'm done. I'm 1085 01:14:10,620 --> 01:14:14,580 happy. I am a super happy man. Because we don't have to change 1086 01:14:14,580 --> 01:14:15,090 anything. 1087 01:14:15,870 --> 01:14:18,330 Dave Jones: The only thing the only thing that has to happen 1088 01:14:18,330 --> 01:14:23,490 here are the the the local station the local stations. Need 1089 01:14:23,490 --> 01:14:26,370 to figure out their playlists. Yes, 1090 01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:29,220 Adam Curry: exactly. By the way, our Marcus Yes, he says sounds 1091 01:14:29,220 --> 01:14:31,830 like a man who just got back from Caleb. Yep, you're right. 1092 01:14:32,970 --> 01:14:37,140 You're right. That's exactly right. Exactly. What Oh, this is 1093 01:14:37,140 --> 01:14:39,090 perfect. That is perfect. 1094 01:14:40,529 --> 01:14:42,839 Dave Jones: That was me happy. That doesn't Yeah, that's that's 1095 01:14:42,839 --> 01:14:44,819 that doesn't sound like a difficult project. 1096 01:14:44,879 --> 01:14:47,399 Adam Curry: I did want to mention just because I love the 1097 01:14:47,399 --> 01:14:51,959 guy so much this guy Fernando. He has made this pod mobile 1098 01:14:51,959 --> 01:14:56,489 project product, I should say. Pod mobile things that pod 1099 01:14:56,489 --> 01:15:00,929 mobile. Fernando Fernando is I What'd I say? They said, 1100 01:15:00,929 --> 01:15:07,379 Fernando. Yeah. Pod mobile Missy. It said What's it that it 1101 01:15:07,379 --> 01:15:11,939 said in this email? Now I've been I've been talking to him 1102 01:15:11,939 --> 01:15:19,319 ever since for about a year now. It's audio sigma.com. And he has 1103 01:15:19,319 --> 01:15:22,589 made a device. Which 1104 01:15:22,620 --> 01:15:24,960 Dave Jones: Oh, that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And I've been 1105 01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:25,470 testing 1106 01:15:25,470 --> 01:15:27,990 Adam Curry: and now he's moved it to with a DSP. So it's 1107 01:15:27,990 --> 01:15:31,950 digital signal processing. And this is a device that you just 1108 01:15:31,950 --> 01:15:34,890 plug in a mic, you plug it into your phone, or you plug it into 1109 01:15:34,890 --> 01:15:39,030 your computer, and it just works. And the sound of this 1110 01:15:39,030 --> 01:15:43,980 thing is Adam curry approved. He has because this Dean he calls 1111 01:15:43,980 --> 01:15:47,940 it a D noiser. So you literally just Oh crack your mic, you 1112 01:15:47,940 --> 01:15:52,170 don't talk the press the button until the back it's kind of a 1113 01:15:52,170 --> 01:15:56,550 noise gate filter and all in one. And the preamps on this 1114 01:15:56,550 --> 01:16:01,110 thing aren't just like delicious. They're delicious. 1115 01:16:01,350 --> 01:16:06,090 And you could mix in you could mix in your your your computer 1116 01:16:06,090 --> 01:16:10,230 or your phone audio. And you can also use it with someone on 1117 01:16:10,230 --> 01:16:14,340 remote you know, so it's got a where they call it a loopback 1118 01:16:14,340 --> 01:16:17,640 interface. It's dynamite 1119 01:16:18,210 --> 01:16:22,530 Dave Jones: and it's no is this is this road caster pro 1120 01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:23,610 replaceable. 1121 01:16:25,020 --> 01:16:29,430 Adam Curry: It depends on what you're doing. I think so yes. I 1122 01:16:30,030 --> 01:16:34,170 mean, well that well road caster do Oh replaceable, I would say 1123 01:16:34,170 --> 01:16:37,650 because it he has a single single mic version as well. 1124 01:16:38,250 --> 01:16:42,090 Which is the mic hero I think it's called. Yes. But you know, 1125 01:16:42,090 --> 01:16:45,390 so you'd have to have your if you do sound effects and stuff, 1126 01:16:45,390 --> 01:16:48,030 you have to have a soundboard something that's on your 1127 01:16:48,030 --> 01:16:52,560 computer, or on your phone. But even it's powered by USB. You 1128 01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:58,110 don't even plug it in. I mean, I've sick. I've been I've tested 1129 01:16:58,110 --> 01:17:03,030 it. And I've had three generation of units here. And 1130 01:17:03,030 --> 01:17:05,760 this thing is just it is amazing. 1131 01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:10,620 Dave Jones: This really is the the what was that device that 1132 01:17:10,620 --> 01:17:11,160 you Yes, 1133 01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:13,380 Adam Curry: the Catchmaster probe. This is what I was trying 1134 01:17:13,380 --> 01:17:18,990 to build back in the day. When I was coming out at at road caster 1135 01:17:18,990 --> 01:17:22,890 prices. It was just too expensive and was complicated. 1136 01:17:22,890 --> 01:17:27,090 But he solved a lot with this and it's it's just a dynamite 1137 01:17:27,090 --> 01:17:27,780 device. 1138 01:17:28,439 --> 01:17:32,039 Dave Jones: Me 289 For a single mic. That's pretty doable. 1139 01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:39,000 Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That is it. He's got a lot of 1140 01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:42,360 smart things to views. If you scroll down, you see the back. 1141 01:17:42,510 --> 01:17:49,020 Those are touch buttons. So it's capacity capacitive buttons. So 1142 01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,270 it's not actually a physical button but you touch it and the 1143 01:17:51,270 --> 01:17:55,320 adjust that. The LED turns different colors for your 1144 01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:59,730 equalizer D noise SiC is the right word. It's it's an amazing 1145 01:17:59,730 --> 01:18:02,940 device. And this guy he comes from I think Brazil came to 1146 01:18:02,940 --> 01:18:06,390 America with 100 bucks in his pocket. He just been grinding 1147 01:18:06,390 --> 01:18:09,600 away at some job and he's been building these in his spare 1148 01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:12,120 time. I'm so proud of him. He's really doing something 1149 01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:16,080 beautiful. And he's the engineer guys everything these marketing 1150 01:18:16,140 --> 01:18:21,420 He's He's everything. Yeah, the mic hero DSP. That's the one. 1151 01:18:21,570 --> 01:18:23,100 That's the single mic version. 1152 01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:25,170 Dave Jones: Does he know how to create Alby Wallace? 1153 01:18:27,989 --> 01:18:29,789 Adam Curry: You don't know these Fernando. 1154 01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:33,990 Dave Jones: Need to have a call with Fernando. 1155 01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:36,930 Adam Curry: Make sure it's Fernando Now why am I think it 1156 01:18:36,930 --> 01:18:37,710 is Francisco 1157 01:18:37,740 --> 01:18:38,490 Dave Jones: it's for NASA 1158 01:18:44,340 --> 01:18:47,340 but your bus route has that just want to mention Buzzsprout has 1159 01:18:47,340 --> 01:18:52,260 that they came out with that podcast backup thing. I don't 1160 01:18:52,260 --> 01:18:55,770 know what they didn't like what is that? Like you can point you 1161 01:18:55,770 --> 01:18:59,370 can point their tool at a at your podcast and it'll back it 1162 01:18:59,370 --> 01:19:02,970 up like backup all the audio and all that kind of stuff. Just for 1163 01:19:02,970 --> 01:19:06,120 safekeeping that I just wanted to point out heard about that 1164 01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:10,890 I'm just gonna mention there's a tool that we built a long time 1165 01:19:10,890 --> 01:19:16,350 ago called sucky. They'll do the same thing from the command line 1166 01:19:16,350 --> 01:19:19,650 so you can just like pointed basically just use key space and 1167 01:19:19,650 --> 01:19:23,130 then and then the feed URL and it'll suck all the the 1168 01:19:23,130 --> 01:19:26,490 enclosures down if people want to automate you know downloads 1169 01:19:26,490 --> 01:19:31,920 them an automated backup to like your own to your own storage or 1170 01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:37,080 whatever. Completely there's a bunch of like it's a must have 1171 01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:40,950 happened last couple weeks Stephen crater added episodes.fm 1172 01:19:40,950 --> 01:19:43,290 and podcast AP links to the website. 1173 01:19:43,830 --> 01:19:47,640 Adam Curry: I use episodes FM all the time. I unfortunately 1174 01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:51,480 can't use it without an iTunes ID so I have which I think he's 1175 01:19:51,480 --> 01:19:57,180 working on. But man do I love that I see a lot of uptake. 1176 01:19:57,570 --> 01:20:01,470 Because I just send out the or even when it's The if it's a 1177 01:20:01,470 --> 01:20:06,000 live show I always said that on episodes FM Ling and people like 1178 01:20:06,030 --> 01:20:08,520 oh, this is great. I can just select my favorite app and then 1179 01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:12,360 it remembers it or I can play it right there on the page is 1180 01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:15,300 fantastic. What a smart smart idea. 1181 01:20:16,529 --> 01:20:19,049 Dave Jones: Have you seen the podcast a paid link? 1182 01:20:20,010 --> 01:20:20,580 Adam Curry: No, 1183 01:20:20,610 --> 01:20:24,750 Dave Jones: let me see. So if you go to you know, just any 1184 01:20:24,750 --> 01:20:30,330 podcast on podcast index.org There's a there's a follow 1185 01:20:30,570 --> 01:20:33,480 there's like a little little thing next to the lightning icon 1186 01:20:33,480 --> 01:20:37,290 where you can click on it it'll take you to podcast AP to that 1187 01:20:37,290 --> 01:20:40,680 feed and you can you can follow it in Mastodon or whatever your 1188 01:20:41,370 --> 01:20:44,190 Adam Curry: upline. Oh, cool. 1189 01:20:45,330 --> 01:20:47,670 Dave Jones: Yeah, cuz we're gonna, you know, we're gonna put 1190 01:20:47,670 --> 01:20:51,390 this onto the page itself, then I figure I mean, this Steven 1191 01:20:51,390 --> 01:20:53,880 already built it. So I'm like, we'll just link out to that. 1192 01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:59,520 Adam Curry: So he has a mystery. Oh, okay. So there's episodes 1193 01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,010 dot F m link there as well. Yeah. 1194 01:21:02,490 --> 01:21:05,460 Dave Jones: Nice. So you can click out to eight to either one 1195 01:21:05,460 --> 01:21:09,870 of those, like the replacement for the Chiclets. Yeah, that 1196 01:21:09,870 --> 01:21:13,470 keeps us from having to like, have all those stupid badges. 1197 01:21:13,470 --> 01:21:18,420 Yes. Yes, Nathan. Nathan says he's up to 99,000 500 million 1198 01:21:18,450 --> 01:21:19,410 monthly active users 1199 01:21:19,410 --> 01:21:21,930 Adam Curry: already is. That's all from me. You're welcome. 1200 01:21:26,970 --> 01:21:29,130 He's even used the ma us so boy. 1201 01:21:30,390 --> 01:21:33,870 Dave Jones: Yeah, the I don't know. What do we 1202 01:21:34,470 --> 01:21:37,290 Adam Curry: you listen to our hatless and we got to do our 1203 01:21:37,290 --> 01:21:40,230 hate. Listen. Oh, you wanna do the hatless? Yes, of course. The 1204 01:21:40,230 --> 01:21:44,670 hate listen was great this week. It's a thin line between love 1205 01:21:44,670 --> 01:21:45,540 and hate people. 1206 01:21:47,550 --> 01:21:53,910 Dave Jones: Yes, but where's my clips? Out there? Okay. I've did 1207 01:21:53,910 --> 01:21:59,760 not have a copy of my own clips to look at. So yeah, the I was 1208 01:21:59,790 --> 01:22:03,780 I've been reading this book showing the full room you open 1209 01:22:03,780 --> 01:22:06,720 this up when anyone there this? I've been reading this book 1210 01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:09,630 called. So do you know a guy named Matthew Crawford? 1211 01:22:10,049 --> 01:22:11,579 Adam Curry: No. Can't say that. I 1212 01:22:11,580 --> 01:22:18,030 Dave Jones: do. So he wrote a book called shockcraft as 1213 01:22:18,030 --> 01:22:20,040 SoulCraft that 1214 01:22:20,070 --> 01:22:23,160 Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, we've talked about that. I think this 1215 01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:26,250 is the guy who didn't he build a motorcycle or something or did 1216 01:22:26,250 --> 01:22:28,170 something? Yeah, he's 1217 01:22:28,169 --> 01:22:31,079 Dave Jones: a motorcycle mechanic. Yeah. So I know about 1218 01:22:31,079 --> 01:22:35,579 him. Sure. Sort of motorcycle mechanic turns philosopher type. 1219 01:22:36,509 --> 01:22:38,849 I think he was a journalist and stuff in the past. I'm not sure. 1220 01:22:38,879 --> 01:22:42,149 I don't know all of his history. But shop craft is SoulCraft is 1221 01:22:42,149 --> 01:22:48,959 his big work. But he also wrote a book called Why We drive which 1222 01:22:48,959 --> 01:22:54,509 is a car book. He's a gearhead. So this is a car book that I was 1223 01:22:54,539 --> 01:22:59,429 I was reading. I was reading him. And he was reading this 1224 01:22:59,429 --> 01:23:04,739 book while we drive. And currently, in a couple of days 1225 01:23:04,739 --> 01:23:11,039 ago, he said this. He said future futurism which I like, I 1226 01:23:11,039 --> 01:23:16,349 like this term futurism. Because it's, it's got a you know, you 1227 01:23:16,349 --> 01:23:18,809 can't really say that word without it being a little bit. 1228 01:23:19,379 --> 01:23:22,529 tongue in cheek like, you know, these guys, this is there's some 1229 01:23:22,529 --> 01:23:27,809 shading is there. futurism is a genre of mythmaking that seeks 1230 01:23:27,809 --> 01:23:31,349 to generate a feeling of inevitability around some 1231 01:23:31,349 --> 01:23:35,039 desired outcome. A picture that is offered as though it were a 1232 01:23:35,039 --> 01:23:38,999 prediction, this is a good way to attract investment. And 1233 01:23:38,999 --> 01:23:42,179 reciprocally, the flow of investment dollars is a good way 1234 01:23:42,179 --> 01:23:45,149 to attract public speech of fires, like journalists, thought 1235 01:23:45,149 --> 01:23:48,419 leaders, etc. Who will lend their voices to the chorus of 1236 01:23:48,419 --> 01:23:51,989 inevitability, one must accept the future rather than cling to 1237 01:23:51,989 --> 01:23:55,439 the past, which often means simply accepting the present, 1238 01:23:55,559 --> 01:23:58,709 which presently exists, that's perfectly adequate. Do you 1239 01:23:58,709 --> 01:24:02,129 prefer to wallow in the comfort of self delusions of nostalgia? 1240 01:24:03,389 --> 01:24:07,229 Like, I like this description, because this perfectly described 1241 01:24:07,229 --> 01:24:12,959 he's talking. He's talking here about Uber. Yeah. And how the 1242 01:24:12,989 --> 01:24:17,339 they're not really a technology company. You know, the thing, 1243 01:24:17,429 --> 01:24:20,759 like it's sort of it always reminds me about avoid when you 1244 01:24:20,759 --> 01:24:25,079 said that Apple and Google and these are not really technology 1245 01:24:25,079 --> 01:24:31,259 companies, they're law firms that make some apps. Like 1246 01:24:31,289 --> 01:24:33,869 that's, that's essentially what he's saying about Uber is like, 1247 01:24:33,899 --> 01:24:40,889 Uber is not really a technology company. They're a they're a, a 1248 01:24:40,889 --> 01:24:45,119 regulatory buster. They're more of a political entity that 1249 01:24:45,119 --> 01:24:50,189 happens to make a profit that happens to make an app to enable 1250 01:24:50,429 --> 01:24:54,839 their pulling up sort of political and financial means. 1251 01:24:55,469 --> 01:24:58,679 And you know, the whole the whole thing is there. The Uber 1252 01:24:58,679 --> 01:25:02,219 model is never going to make is never going to turn a profit is 1253 01:25:02,219 --> 01:25:07,139 this We all know that or at least I hope we do. But it also 1254 01:25:07,139 --> 01:25:13,559 ends up creating just like Airbnb. It creates tons of sort 1255 01:25:13,559 --> 01:25:17,339 of like what you want to call supply side bloat. The reason 1256 01:25:17,339 --> 01:25:20,009 I'm bringing this up is because I think this same thing has 1257 01:25:20,009 --> 01:25:24,359 happened with Spotify. I read barabar letters article on 1258 01:25:24,359 --> 01:25:32,549 Spotify as leaving the IB. And I think basically, Spotify is 1259 01:25:32,549 --> 01:25:35,309 essentially done the same thing to the podcast industry to a 1260 01:25:35,309 --> 01:25:40,439 certain degree. You have companies like Uber and Airbnb, 1261 01:25:41,459 --> 01:25:46,979 which have created tons of supply side bloat, like fueled 1262 01:25:46,979 --> 01:25:51,929 by this exit strategy, desire combined with political sort of 1263 01:25:51,959 --> 01:25:55,319 us versus them marketing. I mean, that's the secret to 1264 01:25:55,319 --> 01:25:58,139 technology to tech industry innovation. Now, if they 1265 01:25:58,139 --> 01:26:00,209 Adam Curry: even had a walled garden at the most recent 1266 01:26:00,209 --> 01:26:02,429 podcast conference, you literally couldn't come in. 1267 01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:07,380 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. And so the so you now what you have is 1268 01:26:07,380 --> 01:26:10,770 you have a because of Airbnb, you have a housing market where 1269 01:26:10,770 --> 01:26:14,040 most of the houses are not most, but a humongous percentage of 1270 01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:16,770 the houses sit empty all the time. 25% 1271 01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,560 Adam Curry: of our housing supply in Fredericksburg, Texas, 1272 01:26:19,650 --> 01:26:20,940 is air b&b. 1273 01:26:21,899 --> 01:26:25,649 Dave Jones: And I guarantee you at any given time, there is a 1274 01:26:25,649 --> 01:26:26,699 great majority of that 1275 01:26:26,700 --> 01:26:29,310 Adam Curry: is empty, except on weekends. Yep. Yep, it's 1276 01:26:29,310 --> 01:26:29,880 literally 1277 01:26:29,910 --> 01:26:32,310 Dave Jones: empty all the time. And he makes the same. He makes 1278 01:26:32,310 --> 01:26:38,010 the same statement about Uber. He said, most of these Ubers sit 1279 01:26:38,010 --> 01:26:42,810 empty all the time. That's how they that's how they maintain 1280 01:26:42,810 --> 01:26:46,950 the illusion of tap a button and have a car show up. Yeah. Is 1281 01:26:46,950 --> 01:26:49,710 because most of the time they're empty. They're just sitting 1282 01:26:49,710 --> 01:26:53,100 doing nothing. It's created this huge bloat and the same thing is 1283 01:26:53,100 --> 01:26:55,350 happening in AI. 1284 01:26:56,670 --> 01:26:58,590 Adam Curry: My favorite topic, yes, 1285 01:26:58,620 --> 01:27:00,870 Dave Jones: it same thing is happening with AI and the Bloom 1286 01:27:00,870 --> 01:27:05,700 is starting to come off the rows on the whole thing when you have 1287 01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:12,510 the hatless and on the media. Looking at it, which and so a 1288 01:27:12,510 --> 01:27:16,410 couple of things he what what got me is I had read this thing 1289 01:27:16,410 --> 01:27:21,990 in in while we drive about the about this futurism. futurism is 1290 01:27:21,990 --> 01:27:24,870 a genre of mythmaking that seeks to generate a feeling of 1291 01:27:24,870 --> 01:27:29,730 inevitability around a desired outcome. And then on the media 1292 01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:33,690 talks, there it is about inevitability. All this 1293 01:27:33,690 --> 01:27:36,390 Unknown: while technology companies push the public along 1294 01:27:36,390 --> 01:27:41,130 a path that they and members of the press say is inevitable. We 1295 01:27:41,130 --> 01:27:44,040 know that generative AI that chat GPT is the image 1296 01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:47,190 generators, things like that are much more computationally 1297 01:27:47,190 --> 01:27:49,740 intensive than the types of tools that we were using 1298 01:27:49,770 --> 01:27:52,950 previously. So they require a lot more computing power. And as 1299 01:27:52,950 --> 01:27:56,460 a result of that Amazon and Microsoft and Google are in the 1300 01:27:56,460 --> 01:27:59,700 process of doing a major build out of large hyperscale data 1301 01:27:59,700 --> 01:28:02,970 centers around the world in order to power what they hope 1302 01:28:02,970 --> 01:28:06,990 will be this major demand for these generative AI tools into 1303 01:28:06,990 --> 01:28:09,900 the future. That obviously requires a lot of energy and a 1304 01:28:09,900 --> 01:28:11,130 lot of water to power it. 1305 01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:15,480 I think we have paths now to a massive energy transition away 1306 01:28:15,480 --> 01:28:16,350 from burning carbon. 1307 01:28:16,529 --> 01:28:20,069 And so in this interview in January, with Bloomberg, Altman 1308 01:28:20,099 --> 01:28:22,949 actually directly engaged with that when he was asked about it, 1309 01:28:23,129 --> 01:28:26,669 does this frighten you got this because the world hasn't been 1310 01:28:26,669 --> 01:28:31,319 that versatile when it comes to supply. But AI, as you have 1311 01:28:31,319 --> 01:28:34,229 pointed out, it's not going to take its time until we start 1312 01:28:34,229 --> 01:28:35,159 generating enough power, 1313 01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:38,700 it motivates us to go invest more in fusion and invest more 1314 01:28:38,700 --> 01:28:40,170 in North new storage. He 1315 01:28:40,170 --> 01:28:43,230 said that we're actually going to need an energy breakthrough 1316 01:28:43,380 --> 01:28:47,520 in nucular technologies in order to power the vision of AI that 1317 01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:51,180 he has, he didn't kind of hesitate and say, Well, if we 1318 01:28:51,180 --> 01:28:54,300 don't arrive at it, then maybe we won't be able to roll out 1319 01:28:54,300 --> 01:28:57,780 this vision of AI that I hope to see but rather that we're just 1320 01:28:57,780 --> 01:29:00,660 going to have the power with other you know, energy sources, 1321 01:29:00,660 --> 01:29:03,900 those often being fossil energy sources, and that would require 1322 01:29:03,900 --> 01:29:07,890 us to geoengineer the planet in order to kind of keep it cooler 1323 01:29:07,890 --> 01:29:10,290 than it would otherwise be because of all the emissions 1324 01:29:10,290 --> 01:29:11,190 that we're creating. 1325 01:29:12,779 --> 01:29:14,519 Adam Curry: The Messiah has spoken 1326 01:29:15,359 --> 01:29:19,619 Dave Jones: Yeah, the these people are insane. Yes. They are 1327 01:29:19,619 --> 01:29:21,959 literally they are insane. He's what he's saying is we're going 1328 01:29:21,959 --> 01:29:26,759 to need so much Jeep like forget Airbnb. Forget the way the 1329 01:29:26,759 --> 01:29:33,119 wasted space of Airbnb forget the wasted gas and time of Uber. 1330 01:29:34,019 --> 01:29:40,859 This is going to be so much wasted GPU compute, that we're 1331 01:29:40,859 --> 01:29:45,599 going to need to RIT to re engineer the world's energy 1332 01:29:45,599 --> 01:29:54,419 systems to be able to handle the massive the massive quantities 1333 01:29:54,419 --> 01:29:59,159 of power needed for Google to tell you that you need to put 1334 01:29:59,159 --> 01:30:07,379 glue on your pizza. that that these people are insane. And 1335 01:30:07,379 --> 01:30:09,719 they're also this. So can 1336 01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:12,180 Adam Curry: I just stop you? Yeah, just looking at Sam 1337 01:30:12,180 --> 01:30:15,720 Altman, just if you remove yourself from a moment from the 1338 01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:20,490 technology realm, he's acting insane. He's acting like an 1339 01:30:20,490 --> 01:30:26,280 insane person. Just talk to him. Look at him. He acts like he's 1340 01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:26,940 nuts. 1341 01:30:27,569 --> 01:30:35,999 Dave Jones: He's got dead eyes. Yes, yes. So the this emergent 1342 01:30:35,999 --> 01:30:43,409 properties, idea that it's awesome. What they did here 1343 01:30:43,409 --> 01:30:47,159 because they went back and checked on some of these. Some 1344 01:30:47,159 --> 01:30:50,069 of these things that we've been told. And remember, this is all 1345 01:30:50,069 --> 01:30:56,099 about the tech industry is all about is futurism. It's all 1346 01:30:56,099 --> 01:31:03,059 about the myth of inevitability. And one way you do that is what 1347 01:31:03,089 --> 01:31:06,929 he just did by saying, okay, look, this is so this is so 1348 01:31:06,959 --> 01:31:10,769 crucial to humanity, such a game changer, that we're going to 1349 01:31:10,769 --> 01:31:15,029 have to invent cold fusion, or whatever to to power these 1350 01:31:15,029 --> 01:31:20,189 things. And then the other part is, look, this, this technology 1351 01:31:20,549 --> 01:31:24,449 is doing things itself, you can't even stop it. Like it's 1352 01:31:24,449 --> 01:31:28,049 got. It's got emergent properties that we don't even 1353 01:31:28,049 --> 01:31:29,519 understand. So one of 1354 01:31:29,970 --> 01:31:33,090 Adam Curry: them. Oh, man, I had it so perfectly timed. Oh, yeah, 1355 01:31:33,090 --> 01:31:33,420 sorry, 1356 01:31:33,449 --> 01:31:35,099 Unknown: one of the biggest problems, there was not just 1357 01:31:35,099 --> 01:31:38,159 what Sundar Pichai was saying, but that the hosts of the 1358 01:31:38,159 --> 01:31:40,889 program, who were, you know, interviewing him and conducting 1359 01:31:40,889 --> 01:31:44,189 this, we're not really pushing back on any of these narratives 1360 01:31:44,189 --> 01:31:45,449 that he was putting out there 1361 01:31:45,570 --> 01:31:50,100 of the AI issues we talked about. The most mysterious is 1362 01:31:50,100 --> 01:31:55,710 called emergent property Scott Pelley of 60 minutes, some AI 1363 01:31:55,710 --> 01:31:59,610 systems are teaching themselves skills that they weren't 1364 01:31:59,610 --> 01:32:05,910 expected to have. For example, one Google AI program adapted on 1365 01:32:05,910 --> 01:32:10,800 its own, after it was prompted in the language of Bangladesh, 1366 01:32:10,830 --> 01:32:14,370 which it was not trained to know. After 1367 01:32:14,370 --> 01:32:17,640 the peace came out AI researcher Margaret Mitchell, who 1368 01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:22,500 previously co lead Google's AI ethics team posted on X saying 1369 01:32:22,500 --> 01:32:26,340 that according to Google's own public documents, the Chatbot 1370 01:32:26,370 --> 01:32:30,990 had actually been trained on Bengali texts, meaning this was 1371 01:32:30,990 --> 01:32:33,960 not evidence of emergent properties. Oops. 1372 01:32:35,279 --> 01:32:37,559 Adam Curry: Good show title though. emergent properties. I 1373 01:32:37,559 --> 01:32:38,069 like that. 1374 01:32:38,670 --> 01:32:41,400 Dave Jones: The other so that, you know, that was the one that 1375 01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:44,340 we that we heard from the 60 Minutes interview, they sort of 1376 01:32:44,340 --> 01:32:46,350 propelled this, there's, you know, it's like there's always 1377 01:32:46,350 --> 01:32:50,460 this, there's always this media propellant. Like with COVID. It 1378 01:32:50,460 --> 01:32:57,330 was a poster home on Rogen. That lit the fire of COVID. That that 1379 01:32:57,330 --> 01:33:01,470 60 minutes thing, I think, was a flashpoint that lit the fire of 1380 01:33:01,470 --> 01:33:06,210 MLMs. But that, you know, so we everybody knows about that one, 1381 01:33:06,210 --> 01:33:08,670 but the the other one you hear all the time is it passed the 1382 01:33:08,670 --> 01:33:14,730 bar exam. This is a classic. Yeah, and that was BS, too. 1383 01:33:14,910 --> 01:33:17,400 Unknown: Here's another exaggeration that made its way 1384 01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:21,690 into a TV news piece. The latest version chat GPT. Four can even 1385 01:33:21,690 --> 01:33:25,890 pass the bar exam with a score in the top 10%. And it can do it 1386 01:33:25,890 --> 01:33:30,240 all in just seconds chat GPT four scored in the 90th 1387 01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:33,510 percentile on the bar exam. Was that legit? 1388 01:33:34,260 --> 01:33:37,410 Yeah, so that claim was debunked recently, 1389 01:33:37,500 --> 01:33:41,550 Julia Angwin is the founder of proof news. She recently wrote 1390 01:33:41,550 --> 01:33:44,880 an op ed for the New York Times titled press pause on the 1391 01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:46,500 Silicon Valley hype machine. 1392 01:33:46,710 --> 01:33:51,720 And MIT researcher basically reran the test and found that it 1393 01:33:51,720 --> 01:33:55,200 actually scored in the 48th percentile. And the difference 1394 01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:59,100 was that when you're talking about percentiles, you have to 1395 01:33:59,100 --> 01:34:01,410 say, who are the other people in that cohort that you're 1396 01:34:01,410 --> 01:34:05,130 comparing with, right. And so apparently, open AI was 1397 01:34:05,130 --> 01:34:09,750 comparing to a cohort of people who had previously failed the 1398 01:34:09,750 --> 01:34:11,130 exam multiple times. 1399 01:34:12,449 --> 01:34:16,199 Open AI compared its product to a group that took the bar in 1400 01:34:16,199 --> 01:34:20,999 February, they tend to fail more than people who take it in July. 1401 01:34:21,510 --> 01:34:26,550 And so when you put it compared to a cohort of people who had 1402 01:34:26,580 --> 01:34:29,790 passed it at the regular rate, then you got to this 48 1403 01:34:29,850 --> 01:34:33,180 percentile. The problem is that paper comes out. It's peer 1404 01:34:33,180 --> 01:34:35,490 reviewed, and it's like goes through the academic process 1405 01:34:35,490 --> 01:34:37,620 that comes out like a year later than the claim. 1406 01:34:38,100 --> 01:34:41,100 Adam Curry: This is if I can just if I can interrupt your 1407 01:34:41,100 --> 01:34:45,300 flow for a second. This is part of the reason why I believe the 1408 01:34:45,300 --> 01:34:50,910 twit network is dying once phones came out, although what 1409 01:34:50,910 --> 01:34:53,580 happened before that for many, many years, and this is 1410 01:34:53,580 --> 01:34:56,220 something I learned from Dave Winer, because he always 1411 01:34:56,220 --> 01:34:59,970 complained about this, and Dave's good at complaining the 1412 01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:07,980 He, that the technology press became cheerleaders. And the 1413 01:35:07,980 --> 01:35:11,550 reason they became cheerleaders is because they would get early 1414 01:35:11,550 --> 01:35:15,660 access to something, then if they weren't a cheerleader, 1415 01:35:15,690 --> 01:35:19,740 their early access would go away. And of course, the hunger 1416 01:35:19,740 --> 01:35:23,880 for the coolest latest widget, the new phone with, you know, 1417 01:35:23,910 --> 01:35:27,540 with the latest cameras in it or whatever the whatever the widget 1418 01:35:27,540 --> 01:35:31,500 is, and they really became instead of critical, because 1419 01:35:31,500 --> 01:35:35,670 they get free, you know, evaluation devices and early 1420 01:35:35,670 --> 01:35:40,560 access and they all work under embargo. And whenever I hear 1421 01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:43,530 embargo, I'm like, Okay, you're just you're promoting something 1422 01:35:43,530 --> 01:35:46,740 because you know, if you get some new if there's news is 1423 01:35:46,740 --> 01:35:49,830 news, and you report on the news, otherwise, you're just 1424 01:35:49,860 --> 01:35:56,400 doing embargo you just really a flowered over pr agents. And so 1425 01:35:56,400 --> 01:35:59,970 everything is always cool and awesome. It doesn't always work. 1426 01:35:59,970 --> 01:36:04,500 See the apple vision Pro, but in general, and boy, by the way, 1427 01:36:04,500 --> 01:36:09,750 Kara Swisher is a huge shill in this way. I mean, I remember her 1428 01:36:09,750 --> 01:36:13,320 saying for months, Apple's thing is going to suck. Who needs it? 1429 01:36:13,320 --> 01:36:16,560 Ben, she got an early demo. This is the future. This is 1430 01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:20,580 fantastic. This is great. So it's that early. The technology 1431 01:36:20,580 --> 01:36:23,850 press is not press anymore. And that started with the twit 1432 01:36:23,850 --> 01:36:27,390 network with the phones. When phones came out it was always 1433 01:36:27,390 --> 01:36:29,460 the new phone. We got to new cool this the cool. That's so 1434 01:36:29,460 --> 01:36:31,440 cool. It's so cool. And everything became cool and 1435 01:36:31,440 --> 01:36:34,860 awesome. And um, they actually became the SAM Altman's the 1436 01:36:34,860 --> 01:36:37,260 people on the panel. Well, you could use it for this. Imagine 1437 01:36:37,260 --> 01:36:39,960 this Imagine that? Well emergent properties? 1438 01:36:41,310 --> 01:36:46,290 Dave Jones: That, you know, I'll put this back to on on Apple as 1439 01:36:46,860 --> 01:36:50,220 access journalism has always been a problem to like put in, 1440 01:36:50,310 --> 01:36:55,200 especially in politics. Yeah. But in the in the tech world, ag 1441 01:36:55,410 --> 01:37:00,060 access journalism was, I think it was refined into an art form 1442 01:37:00,060 --> 01:37:02,850 by Apple and Steve Jobs specifically, I agree with every 1443 01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:05,610 Yeah, everybody wanted to interview him, everybody wanted 1444 01:37:05,610 --> 01:37:09,180 access. And so in order to do that, you had to suck up, you 1445 01:37:09,180 --> 01:37:12,450 know, to the to the Apple corporate machine, and get and 1446 01:37:12,450 --> 01:37:14,700 get in their good graces, because they would cut you off. 1447 01:37:15,570 --> 01:37:17,400 They'll cut you off, you wouldn't get invited to their 1448 01:37:17,400 --> 01:37:21,000 exclusive, you know, new product launches and these kinds of 1449 01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:22,770 things. You know, you couldn't sit there in the audience and 1450 01:37:22,770 --> 01:37:28,380 blog as they were talking on stage. And like this goes back. 1451 01:37:28,530 --> 01:37:30,990 So that goes back to another thing. They talked about this 1452 01:37:30,990 --> 01:37:35,400 interview in this piece about the coveted tech founder 1453 01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:36,990 interview. Today, we're 1454 01:37:36,990 --> 01:37:39,270 Unknown: seeing so many fun, we got 1455 01:37:39,270 --> 01:37:41,460 Adam Curry: to we've got to work on our transitions day, if I'm 1456 01:37:41,460 --> 01:37:43,500 not sure if I'm jumping the gun on Yeah, 1457 01:37:43,979 --> 01:37:47,009 Dave Jones: yeah, I'm getting carried away. And I'm just like 1458 01:37:47,009 --> 01:37:48,059 running off at the mouth. 1459 01:37:49,649 --> 01:37:51,869 Adam Curry: You're literally giving me the what I think is 1460 01:37:51,869 --> 01:37:55,199 the cue and I'm like, Okay, hit it. Let me run again. 1461 01:37:56,430 --> 01:38:00,120 Dave Jones: Okay. All right. And so that brings us back to 1462 01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:02,250 another thing they talked about in this piece, which is the tech 1463 01:38:02,250 --> 01:38:03,930 founder interview. Today, 1464 01:38:03,930 --> 01:38:07,500 Unknown: we've seen so many fawning conversations with tech 1465 01:38:07,500 --> 01:38:11,190 leaders who are at the forefront of artificial intelligence. 1466 01:38:11,340 --> 01:38:13,800 Yeah, absolutely. One of the ones that really stands out, of 1467 01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:17,220 course, is an interview that Sundar Pichai, the CEO of Google 1468 01:38:17,340 --> 01:38:20,940 did with 60 minutes back in April of 2023. And in this 1469 01:38:20,940 --> 01:38:25,530 interview, Sundar was talking about how these AIs were a black 1470 01:38:25,530 --> 01:38:28,230 box, and we don't know what goes on in there. Let 1471 01:38:28,230 --> 01:38:31,470 me put it this way. I don't think we fully understand how a 1472 01:38:31,470 --> 01:38:32,880 human mind works either. 1473 01:38:34,260 --> 01:38:36,090 Adam Curry: By the way, know that on the transition, that was 1474 01:38:36,090 --> 01:38:36,870 great, that was 1475 01:38:38,010 --> 01:38:41,790 Dave Jones: Z. So this goes back to remember principle number one 1476 01:38:41,790 --> 01:38:46,530 is to have tech now of the tech Hype Machine is that these 1477 01:38:46,530 --> 01:38:49,770 people are insane. They smoke crack, actually, 1478 01:38:49,770 --> 01:38:52,560 Adam Curry: they're micro dosing the ketamine, 1479 01:38:53,640 --> 01:38:59,070 Dave Jones: ketamine the I love I love the reason I put this in 1480 01:38:59,070 --> 01:39:03,330 here is because I love what Sundar Pichai the way the thing 1481 01:39:03,330 --> 01:39:06,720 he said, I think it's easy to escape if you're not listening 1482 01:39:06,720 --> 01:39:11,850 close and thinking about what he said. He said, We don't 1483 01:39:11,850 --> 01:39:18,360 understand fully the way the human mind works either. There 1484 01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:25,440 is a real equivocation there between LLS limbs in the human 1485 01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:28,229 Adam Curry: mind, this is quite a bit of space in between the 1486 01:39:28,229 --> 01:39:29,909 two can we 1487 01:39:29,910 --> 01:39:32,880 Dave Jones: just say that if you think if you even attempt to 1488 01:39:32,880 --> 01:39:36,210 equivocate on those two things you're you're literally smoking 1489 01:39:36,210 --> 01:39:42,000 crack Yeah, you are insane. Yeah. But the this one the what 1490 01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:45,540 I love the best part of the whole the whole on the media 1491 01:39:45,540 --> 01:39:49,290 which we sort of bring it brings it back around to the to the to 1492 01:39:49,290 --> 01:39:54,960 his hate listen core. Is this awesome groundbreaking idea. 1493 01:39:55,260 --> 01:39:59,100 Unknown: Journalists shouldn't believe just a video that claims 1494 01:39:59,100 --> 01:40:01,740 to show something how running without actually taking a minute 1495 01:40:02,100 --> 01:40:06,810 to even carefully watch the video or ask to have access to 1496 01:40:06,810 --> 01:40:09,150 the tool themselves. Oh, 1497 01:40:09,209 --> 01:40:13,769 Adam Curry: it's no, it's the demo. It's the demo. The demo. 1498 01:40:13,799 --> 01:40:21,419 Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, the sad thing is that governments 1499 01:40:21,419 --> 01:40:24,719 are all over this. And I know why. Because the government so 1500 01:40:24,719 --> 01:40:28,019 like, hey, wait a minute, if we can control what's in these 1501 01:40:28,019 --> 01:40:31,889 MLMs, we can control the output and we can have, or what goes 1502 01:40:31,889 --> 01:40:35,339 into these MLMs or we can control the companies through 1503 01:40:35,339 --> 01:40:39,449 legislation, they will be able to control the masses who have 1504 01:40:39,449 --> 01:40:44,129 been taught by the access journalist that this is real. 1505 01:40:44,639 --> 01:40:48,689 And that this is reasoning, and that this is the human brain. 1506 01:40:49,019 --> 01:40:53,669 And so now of course, it's backfiring. Specifically, 1507 01:40:53,879 --> 01:40:57,839 though, particularly for Google is backfiring. Big time, because 1508 01:40:57,839 --> 01:41:01,259 you Yeah, it's now they're just a mean, they're just an ongoing 1509 01:41:01,259 --> 01:41:05,609 meme about the latest, crazy thing that Google search is 1510 01:41:05,609 --> 01:41:08,609 throwing back at people. You know, I don't have to mention 1511 01:41:08,609 --> 01:41:12,329 them all. But the cockroaches is a fun one. Oh, that's great. 1512 01:41:12,629 --> 01:41:14,039 And, and the glue on? 1513 01:41:15,270 --> 01:41:17,850 Dave Jones: My favorite one is the dog in a hot car. Did you 1514 01:41:17,850 --> 01:41:22,440 see that? What's that? Is it okay to leave in a dog in a hot 1515 01:41:22,440 --> 01:41:24,810 car? And the answer was, yes, it's perfectly fine to leave a 1516 01:41:24,810 --> 01:41:28,380 dog in a hot car. And it kept going. And it said there's even 1517 01:41:28,380 --> 01:41:31,470 a Beatles song called dog in a car and they started giving 1518 01:41:31,470 --> 01:41:38,850 lyrics. I love that's great. I love it. Because when you it, it 1519 01:41:38,850 --> 01:41:45,210 takes away the mystery of all this. When you can follow the 1520 01:41:45,390 --> 01:41:49,230 the answer it gives and see the Reddit post that it pulled from. 1521 01:41:49,740 --> 01:41:53,550 Exactly, exactly. And and makes it where it's no longer 1522 01:41:53,550 --> 01:41:54,270 mysterious. And 1523 01:41:54,269 --> 01:41:58,859 Adam Curry: this whole thing is circular. Because the news 1524 01:41:58,859 --> 01:42:02,219 business who is always looking for a daddy, they've been ever 1525 01:42:02,219 --> 01:42:05,429 since the internet, the news business has been dying because 1526 01:42:05,429 --> 01:42:09,239 they mistakenly thought that people would pay for news. And 1527 01:42:09,239 --> 01:42:12,239 it was always been a loss leader. Back in the days of 1528 01:42:12,239 --> 01:42:16,439 Cronkite and CBS and the Tiffany network. It was literally a loss 1529 01:42:16,439 --> 01:42:20,969 leader. The newspapers found out that oh wait a minute, people 1530 01:42:20,969 --> 01:42:23,999 weren't actually paying to read our news. They were they it was 1531 01:42:23,999 --> 01:42:26,699 the classifieds that were paying for them to print the news, 1532 01:42:26,909 --> 01:42:31,049 along with the classifieds. And now it's come full circle where 1533 01:42:31,049 --> 01:42:34,019 these news outlets, the latest being the Atlantic are like, 1534 01:42:34,019 --> 01:42:37,829 yeah, we'll sell you our data for your LLM. So it's a circular 1535 01:42:37,829 --> 01:42:42,569 thing now. So it's gonna be their crap being fed right back 1536 01:42:42,569 --> 01:42:45,179 into their crap. It's just it's going to go on forever and ever 1537 01:42:45,179 --> 01:42:48,419 and ever. And, and I've predicted this, I'm going to say 1538 01:42:48,419 --> 01:42:53,459 one more time, the future is dark, it's a dark winter. And 1539 01:42:53,459 --> 01:42:56,099 there will will be a pivot to the next hype, which will be 1540 01:42:56,099 --> 01:43:00,479 quantum computing. That's the next pivot. The pivot is quantum 1541 01:43:00,479 --> 01:43:03,689 my sister is in this business. And she says her customers are 1542 01:43:03,689 --> 01:43:07,619 already asking for Quantum. They've heard it and Google is 1543 01:43:07,649 --> 01:43:11,759 has products they are now they're unaffordable for 1544 01:43:11,759 --> 01:43:14,369 shopping sites, etc. Because that's what most of this stuff 1545 01:43:14,369 --> 01:43:19,109 is being used for. She has clients who know they and she 1546 01:43:19,109 --> 01:43:23,609 integrates AI into their shopping systems. So that 1547 01:43:23,609 --> 01:43:26,969 there's never an an empty answer. It never comes back and 1548 01:43:26,969 --> 01:43:30,539 says no, I don't have that product for you ever. So it's 1549 01:43:30,539 --> 01:43:35,009 it's built to lie and say no, but you might want this. And her 1550 01:43:35,009 --> 01:43:37,409 customers are already saying well, can we get quantum because 1551 01:43:37,409 --> 01:43:41,879 we see Google as a as again, a very spiffy demo. But once you 1552 01:43:41,879 --> 01:43:45,179 actually add on the features, it's unaffordable to me there's 1553 01:43:45,179 --> 01:43:50,159 no way it just it'll never the numbers never work out. But that 1554 01:43:50,159 --> 01:43:52,769 will be the next hype. And this is the this is the issue. 1555 01:43:53,219 --> 01:43:56,009 Because you look at the stock market right now in video makes 1556 01:43:56,009 --> 01:44:00,329 up a big part of the s&p 500 Spike. Oh, 1557 01:44:00,330 --> 01:44:03,450 Dave Jones: yeah, it's like something like 5% of the index 1558 01:44:03,450 --> 01:44:04,260 by itself. 1559 01:44:04,830 --> 01:44:07,140 Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, 1560 01:44:07,139 --> 01:44:10,769 Dave Jones: it's it once this but when this bubble pops, it's 1561 01:44:10,769 --> 01:44:11,549 going to be bad. 1562 01:44:11,970 --> 01:44:14,970 Adam Curry: So I have a clip that I played I think we could 1563 01:44:14,970 --> 01:44:19,260 go on no agenda is from a New York University professor who 1564 01:44:19,260 --> 01:44:23,520 was on CNBC and I love CNBC because they kind of have to 1565 01:44:23,520 --> 01:44:27,900 report some truth because it is financial. And a lot of it is 1566 01:44:28,020 --> 01:44:31,230 this numbers you know this real income and you know, once you 1567 01:44:31,230 --> 01:44:34,680 get past the EBIT, da and all that, all that kind of fuzzy 1568 01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:37,710 numbers which actual market participants understand very 1569 01:44:37,710 --> 01:44:38,220 well, 1570 01:44:38,550 --> 01:44:40,170 Dave Jones: this Becky on Squawk Box. 1571 01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:43,740 Adam Curry: This is the result of this guy kind of tells it as 1572 01:44:43,740 --> 01:44:44,310 it is. 1573 01:44:44,700 --> 01:44:47,100 Unknown: You've consistently offered gut checks about 1574 01:44:47,160 --> 01:44:50,580 hallucinations, lack of progress, the way in which this 1575 01:44:50,580 --> 01:44:54,120 is not the pipe dream that some envision. Have any of the recent 1576 01:44:54,360 --> 01:44:58,050 product introductions changed your mind? No, I 1577 01:44:58,050 --> 01:45:00,450 mean, we're still basically working with With the same 1578 01:45:00,450 --> 01:45:04,350 technology, it's still designed in the same way. It takes a lot 1579 01:45:04,350 --> 01:45:06,960 of statistics from a lot of words and tries to predict what 1580 01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:10,290 happens next. And as soon as these things come out, people 1581 01:45:10,290 --> 01:45:13,110 start playing with them on Twitter and so forth. And you 1582 01:45:13,110 --> 01:45:15,330 see a lot of examples where they're still making the same 1583 01:45:15,330 --> 01:45:18,540 boneheaded mistakes as they were before. Nobody has actually 1584 01:45:18,540 --> 01:45:21,090 solved to loosen nations. And I don't think we can with large 1585 01:45:21,090 --> 01:45:24,690 language models. I think we need genuine innovation here. So what 1586 01:45:24,690 --> 01:45:27,630 happens is we have a trap right now where people propose things 1587 01:45:27,630 --> 01:45:31,170 like the humane AI, then imagining that AI is solved, and 1588 01:45:31,170 --> 01:45:33,270 then they put it out in the world. And we realize, no, it's 1589 01:45:33,270 --> 01:45:36,510 not solved. And I'm afraid that hasn't happened yet. 1590 01:45:36,540 --> 01:45:39,960 Are you going so far as to argue that the wave of investment that 1591 01:45:39,960 --> 01:45:43,410 very smart companies are making right now is misplaced? 1592 01:45:43,860 --> 01:45:46,590 I think people are putting in too much money too fast. I do 1593 01:45:46,590 --> 01:45:50,370 think it's kind of premature. Sam Altman talked about raising 1594 01:45:50,370 --> 01:45:55,500 $7 trillion. That's like series H money, or something like that, 1595 01:45:55,500 --> 01:45:57,780 when you've really established your business model, and so 1596 01:45:57,780 --> 01:46:00,810 forth. And that just hasn't happened here. I will publicly 1597 01:46:00,810 --> 01:46:03,870 predicted that open air, I might turn out to be the WeWork of AI, 1598 01:46:04,050 --> 01:46:06,240 people might scratch their heads and say, Well, this is a 1599 01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:09,180 solution. In search of a problem. We haven't really found 1600 01:46:09,180 --> 01:46:12,690 the problem. The whole industry spent something like $50 billion 1601 01:46:13,170 --> 01:46:17,070 last year made $3 billion in revenue, that is not sustainable 1602 01:46:17,070 --> 01:46:19,650 in the long term. So either they have to make it better, which is 1603 01:46:19,650 --> 01:46:22,440 proven really difficult, or they have to find some killer use 1604 01:46:22,440 --> 01:46:24,660 case, which they haven't really because the performance is 1605 01:46:24,660 --> 01:46:27,570 unreliable. So yeah, my guess is that a lot of investors are 1606 01:46:27,570 --> 01:46:28,380 going to be left holding 1607 01:46:28,380 --> 01:46:32,280 Adam Curry: back 50 billion and 3 billion out. Wow, that's 1608 01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:35,550 Dave Jones: not that's not sustainable. Unless it's a war. 1609 01:46:35,700 --> 01:46:40,080 Adam Curry: This is fine. Yeah, the thing is, this all stems 1610 01:46:40,080 --> 01:46:48,270 from really a math sex cult called Effective Altruism. Oh, 1611 01:46:48,270 --> 01:46:52,320 Dave Jones: yeah. The the, that that, that Australian chick that 1612 01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:56,910 sounds like she's from America. Yeah. She's she's in that too. 1613 01:46:56,940 --> 01:46:57,300 Yeah. 1614 01:46:57,509 --> 01:46:59,759 Adam Curry: This is they were all in they thought they could 1615 01:46:59,759 --> 01:47:03,149 solve the world's problems through math. And but it's 1616 01:47:03,149 --> 01:47:06,929 really a sex cult. And that's what that's what look at Sam 1617 01:47:06,929 --> 01:47:07,619 Altman. 1618 01:47:08,250 --> 01:47:10,950 Dave Jones: And and what's his name of SPF? 1619 01:47:11,069 --> 01:47:14,519 Adam Curry: It's same also Effective Altruism, the another 1620 01:47:14,519 --> 01:47:17,129 sex cult, with a nicer apartment. 1621 01:47:19,140 --> 01:47:21,150 Dave Jones: Cisco was better dig? Yeah, it's 1622 01:47:21,150 --> 01:47:23,940 Adam Curry: much better digs. Exactly. Exactly. 1623 01:47:23,939 --> 01:47:27,359 Dave Jones: This, you know, bring it back around to to 1624 01:47:27,359 --> 01:47:31,319 podcasting for a second spot. This is what I just get echoing 1625 01:47:31,319 --> 01:47:34,889 when I was reading Brian Bartlett, his piece on Spotify, 1626 01:47:34,889 --> 01:47:36,749 which I which I think is a good piece I think everybody should 1627 01:47:36,749 --> 01:47:40,349 read it is from if you're thinking about podcasting from 1628 01:47:40,349 --> 01:47:47,609 his frame, which is advertising, so selling and selling ads. He's 1629 01:47:47,939 --> 01:47:52,949 seeing the result of, of this same process that happened in 1630 01:47:52,949 --> 01:47:57,569 the podcasting world, Spotify, I keep thinking back to a couple 1631 01:47:57,569 --> 01:48:04,799 years ago, James had mentioned he said, that Spotify as press, 1632 01:48:04,829 --> 01:48:09,599 their media department was just an absolute machine pumping out 1633 01:48:09,629 --> 01:48:13,949 press releases, like two or three a week. And it's that same 1634 01:48:13,949 --> 01:48:22,199 process of trying to manufacture a, a myth of inevitability, that 1635 01:48:22,229 --> 01:48:26,249 that pot, you know, the future of Spotify is, it's going to be 1636 01:48:26,249 --> 01:48:28,379 you know, it's, you're going to come everybody everything's 1637 01:48:28,379 --> 01:48:30,389 going to be first party data, everything's going to be going 1638 01:48:30,389 --> 01:48:33,299 through our app, where the Kings, you better to get on 1639 01:48:33,299 --> 01:48:38,009 board, or you're gonna get left behind. And now that they've now 1640 01:48:38,009 --> 01:48:42,419 that they've gotten once they got religion, and decided to 1641 01:48:42,419 --> 01:48:46,169 turn a profit, they've just cut everything and now they're just 1642 01:48:46,169 --> 01:48:49,229 getting now they're ruthless. They're cutting out the they're 1643 01:48:49,229 --> 01:48:52,079 cutting out direct sale, they're gonna be they're gonna start 1644 01:48:52,079 --> 01:48:54,779 undercutting all of their publishers on the advertising 1645 01:48:54,779 --> 01:48:59,369 side. It's about to get ugly, because they, they saw, and I 1646 01:48:59,369 --> 01:49:02,399 think they got emboldened by YouTube coming into podcasting. 1647 01:49:02,759 --> 01:49:05,639 YouTube was like, that was like, no, no, we're not doing passthru 1648 01:49:05,639 --> 01:49:07,379 we're just going to host everything ourselves. Yeah. And 1649 01:49:07,379 --> 01:49:10,769 you get nothing. Yes, right. Yeah, we're gonna do that, too. 1650 01:49:10,799 --> 01:49:17,219 Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if if it's vodka if Spotify ditches 1651 01:49:17,219 --> 01:49:19,139 pass through in the next Oh, here. 1652 01:49:19,649 --> 01:49:23,969 Adam Curry: And the end, the only way RSS works is if it 1653 01:49:23,969 --> 01:49:27,509 works everywhere. Yeah. And that's, you know, wherever you 1654 01:49:27,509 --> 01:49:30,599 get your podcast is one of the most powerful statements and 1655 01:49:30,599 --> 01:49:36,659 media ever created, ever created. Then you can't just 1656 01:49:36,659 --> 01:49:40,859 have it work on one in one place. It just it's that's what 1657 01:49:40,859 --> 01:49:44,699 we've learned is 20 years of experience here. It has to work 1658 01:49:44,699 --> 01:49:45,329 everywhere. 1659 01:49:46,529 --> 01:49:48,629 Dave Jones: Yeah, and that's and that's what we talked about the 1660 01:49:48,629 --> 01:49:52,109 very beginning of the show. I mean, if if this stuff, if we 1661 01:49:52,109 --> 01:49:54,749 can't fix the lightning thing, if it doesn't work everywhere, 1662 01:49:54,749 --> 01:49:56,849 then it doesn't work. That's right. It's got to work 1663 01:49:56,849 --> 01:49:57,359 everywhere. 1664 01:49:58,439 --> 01:50:01,019 Adam Curry: Let's make it work everywhere, everybody Let's make 1665 01:50:01,019 --> 01:50:05,369 it work everywhere well thanks people yeah I'll kick it off 1666 01:50:05,369 --> 01:50:08,159 with the boost that came in during the show during this 1667 01:50:08,159 --> 01:50:11,639 board meeting these laughs with 1000 SATs I'm late to the 1668 01:50:11,639 --> 01:50:16,169 meeting what did I miss? Oh cool the cool the planet yeah that's 1669 01:50:16,169 --> 01:50:22,049 right cool the planet 11 11,948 years Israeli freedom booths 1670 01:50:22,049 --> 01:50:26,159 from Sir Brian of London. Cuz I'm back on track. I'm beating 1671 01:50:26,159 --> 01:50:28,919 the flak nobody's gonna get me on another rap. Glad to have you 1672 01:50:28,919 --> 01:50:34,739 both back. Hey, you made another brass. Surprise. Beautiful 606 1673 01:50:34,739 --> 01:50:38,729 from blueberry to small boobs boost from pod verse. Tune in 1674 01:50:38,729 --> 01:50:43,169 June June 30. To catch the hot lift Tyler managed by Carolyn 1675 01:50:43,169 --> 01:50:48,839 Blaney. Frankie paint the first boost of a lightning designer, d 1676 01:50:48,839 --> 01:50:51,929 mu d j's Mary Kate, altra, and DeLorean have homegrown hits to 1677 01:50:51,929 --> 01:50:56,639 get tuned turned into cartoons and MC a live Battle of the 1678 01:50:56,639 --> 01:51:02,099 Bands featuring $2 Holla Delta OG Survival Guide, Emily Rana 1679 01:51:02,129 --> 01:51:06,719 Hey citizen mellow Cosette Empath eyes and herbivore that's 1680 01:51:06,719 --> 01:51:11,099 going to be a hootenanny. Like $2 Holla. I like that a lot. I 1681 01:51:11,099 --> 01:51:13,859 like it a lot. That's exactly the stuff that we needed to be 1682 01:51:13,859 --> 01:51:20,159 doing with music on podcasting to porno, more wallets. Sam says 1683 01:51:20,159 --> 01:51:27,899 the 1000 SATs, his usual opening line, we already do this. For 1684 01:51:27,899 --> 01:51:31,019 playlists, if you create a playlist and someone plays it, 1685 01:51:31,019 --> 01:51:34,079 he's coming in from true fans. Of course, we pay the creator of 1686 01:51:34,079 --> 01:51:37,499 the playlist, the percentage we paid the podcast episode. In the 1687 01:51:37,499 --> 01:51:40,469 playlist, we just need to add V for V splits the publisher 1688 01:51:40,469 --> 01:51:44,459 feeds, we're doing this for our new event feed. And another 1000 1689 01:51:44,459 --> 01:51:47,519 sets. Oh, that's this Oh, he sent it twice a message twice. 1690 01:51:47,549 --> 01:51:51,029 He sent it and the origin of the 1000 SATs. says this is a 1691 01:51:51,029 --> 01:51:53,459 publisher feed we do this already. So you have a radio 1692 01:51:53,459 --> 01:51:58,019 feed. I don't think it's the same thing was what I described. 1693 01:51:58,889 --> 01:51:59,219 It, 1694 01:51:59,670 --> 01:52:02,610 Dave Jones: it's it is the same thing, but it depends on how you 1695 01:52:02,610 --> 01:52:08,760 handle it. But that's the thing is that is how you parse it. You 1696 01:52:08,760 --> 01:52:13,620 know, are you expecting to parse it as a pod roll type, right 1697 01:52:13,740 --> 01:52:17,160 linkage or are you expecting to follow the feeds to their 1698 01:52:17,160 --> 01:52:19,260 sources and then grab the items out? 1699 01:52:19,290 --> 01:52:23,010 Adam Curry: Okay, so that's an app specific way of parsing? 1700 01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:25,860 Dave Jones: Yeah, it can it can do whatever you want depending 1701 01:52:25,860 --> 01:52:27,720 on you know, the on the medium or whatever. 1702 01:52:27,720 --> 01:52:32,850 Adam Curry: Got it. Yeah. 2222 from lavish row of ducks Ainsley 1703 01:52:32,850 --> 01:52:35,610 galactic premier boost Thank you, brother that will help. 1704 01:52:36,239 --> 01:52:39,119 Dave Jones: Daniel Lewis in the chat says Sam says he needs a t 1705 01:52:39,119 --> 01:52:40,349 shirt. We do this already. 1706 01:52:42,270 --> 01:52:46,110 Adam Curry: 3333 from cotton gin, people pleaser beautiful 1707 01:52:46,440 --> 01:52:51,180 5000 from see Brooklyn 112 and also for people pleaser. 1708 01:52:51,210 --> 01:52:56,670 Beautiful people. Ainsley Costello boosted 5000 from 1709 01:52:56,850 --> 01:53:01,560 fountain now she busied herself I think it's illegal in some 1710 01:53:01,560 --> 01:53:07,500 states. Dirty Jersey whore 19,760 Boost y'all be good 1711 01:53:07,500 --> 01:53:10,260 boosted from the podcasting 2.0 boardroom meeting 1712 01:53:11,220 --> 01:53:14,040 Dave Jones: owner of a shiny new Apollo to money, 1713 01:53:14,700 --> 01:53:17,700 Adam Curry: bro, are we starting our pool? Now? I 1714 01:53:17,700 --> 01:53:19,440 Dave Jones: think I'll have one shortly. though. 1715 01:53:19,439 --> 01:53:22,139 Adam Curry: I love it. I love it. It's a waste of resources. 1716 01:53:22,169 --> 01:53:27,059 By the way it is. I like wasting resources. I waste a lot of 1717 01:53:27,059 --> 01:53:32,189 resources in my life. This is one way I love doing it. 77 7777 1718 01:53:32,189 --> 01:53:36,689 from it's a mood Mike. Also for people pleaser as first heard on 1719 01:53:36,689 --> 01:53:40,259 podcasts in 2.0. The value for value a great tune Ainsley. 1720 01:53:40,919 --> 01:53:48,779 Nice. We've got a 12,621 from chimp and also heard it on 1721 01:53:48,779 --> 01:53:55,379 podcasting. 2.0 and he adds with the pod sage. Do you don't count 1722 01:53:56,099 --> 01:54:02,669 guess not. Sorry, man. 50,000 SATs from Adam curry for Ainsley 1723 01:54:02,789 --> 01:54:05,639 that couldn't resist. Oh, nice. Yeah, I want to make sure 1724 01:54:05,639 --> 01:54:08,789 something nice came through there. 5000 received Brooklyn 1725 01:54:08,789 --> 01:54:14,129 112 For Ainsley people pleaser, this great guys. And another 1726 01:54:14,129 --> 01:54:17,729 2500 from Ainsley. This is for Nathan DOS and Christian harger 1727 01:54:17,759 --> 01:54:20,669 the collaborators as I think that's music mama music mama 1728 01:54:20,669 --> 01:54:27,959 doing that. Billy Bones 333 friendly tone record 333 33 For 1729 01:54:27,959 --> 01:54:30,209 Ainsley This is great guys. This is gonna this is gonna make some 1730 01:54:30,209 --> 01:54:34,769 people pay attention 5150 from the tone record adequate 1731 01:54:34,769 --> 01:54:37,019 catalogue count of artists on wavelike platform the other 1732 01:54:37,019 --> 01:54:40,019 night it showed over 900 accounts now seems like a big 1733 01:54:40,049 --> 01:54:44,129 recent jump. I don't know it's possible makes sense than a 1734 01:54:44,129 --> 01:54:48,449 millennial. Hope this helps cover your doom hole 5000 sets 1735 01:54:48,509 --> 01:54:52,949 does the does tone record with a row of ducks Kachin show live 1736 01:54:52,949 --> 01:54:57,299 today always a treat Alberto from rss.com with 1000 SATs with 1737 01:54:57,299 --> 01:55:01,409 a whole bunch of really happy fun emojis. Alberta 1738 01:55:01,710 --> 01:55:05,100 Dave Jones: rss.com they're lit now. Yeah, you could do it. Yes. 1739 01:55:05,100 --> 01:55:05,460 There. There's 1740 01:55:05,460 --> 01:55:07,140 Adam Curry: Yeah, their platform. That's another thing, 1741 01:55:07,140 --> 01:55:12,090 ma'am. The live and live stuff is a future for sure. For sure, 1742 01:55:12,090 --> 01:55:12,450 Nene. 1743 01:55:12,749 --> 01:55:14,699 Dave Jones: I'm gonna get them on the show here. Yes. 1744 01:55:14,729 --> 01:55:16,829 Adam Curry: We have Andrew Grumman next week, right? 1745 01:55:17,310 --> 01:55:18,060 Dave Jones: We do. Yep. Yep. 1746 01:55:18,270 --> 01:55:20,310 Adam Curry: excited. I'm excited. I'm excited to have him 1747 01:55:20,310 --> 01:55:24,180 on. Seventh seventh central Dred Scott. Dave, he says 3000 days 1748 01:55:24,180 --> 01:55:30,330 weaksauce we really heard that earlier. 70 777 from Dred Scott 1749 01:55:30,330 --> 01:55:35,040 pre show booths got the bat signal. And then we have the you 1750 01:55:35,040 --> 01:55:41,610 get Eric, our podcast Eric on your list. You might not have 1751 01:55:41,610 --> 01:55:45,270 came in just before we started. I'll do it. I'll do it just in 1752 01:55:45,270 --> 01:55:53,220 case. 32,768 which is an interesting number. How do you 1753 01:55:53,220 --> 01:55:55,680 Adam and Dave at least you had a perfectly logical reason for 1754 01:55:55,680 --> 01:55:58,530 your break last week. As for me, I forgot to hit the record 1755 01:55:58,530 --> 01:56:04,950 button from my our weekly highlights podcast last week. Or 1756 01:56:04,950 --> 01:56:08,880 you only do that once or twice in your life. Even with my show 1757 01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:13,200 notes doc having press record everywhere, no AI bot overlords. 1758 01:56:13,200 --> 01:56:16,650 I've taken over this guy yet. Man. I'm sorry. I know how that 1759 01:56:16,650 --> 01:56:21,180 hurts. That hurts so much. It's the worst. It's the worst. And 1760 01:56:21,180 --> 01:56:22,140 that's what I got from the live 1761 01:56:22,140 --> 01:56:25,050 Dave Jones: use. Have you ever done a whole show? And it's not 1762 01:56:25,050 --> 01:56:25,740 recorded? Yes, I 1763 01:56:25,739 --> 01:56:32,819 Adam Curry: have. Now luckily, it actually happened in the 1664 1764 01:56:32,819 --> 01:56:35,519 episodes I've done have no agenda. It's happened probably 1765 01:56:35,519 --> 01:56:40,799 twice. And luckily, there are many producers out there who 1766 01:56:40,799 --> 01:56:45,539 automatically spin up recording stream recording devices and and 1767 01:56:45,539 --> 01:56:48,509 actually make a link of that it's all automated. So if that 1768 01:56:48,509 --> 01:56:51,689 happens again or if I have some disaster, I can always go to 1769 01:56:51,689 --> 01:56:55,799 that link and and grab the show from the stream which granted 1770 01:56:56,099 --> 01:56:58,709 has a little different sound processing once it comes back. 1771 01:56:58,709 --> 01:57:03,359 But it has been a save saving grace couple of times. Yeah, 1772 01:57:03,359 --> 01:57:07,319 Dave Jones: I think I think I remember one time a long time 1773 01:57:07,319 --> 01:57:11,159 ago or maybe Darren O'Neill had to send you a copy or somebody 1774 01:57:11,159 --> 01:57:11,399 liked 1775 01:57:13,170 --> 01:57:16,470 Adam Curry: and back in the day when I was on wi TB FM Salem 1776 01:57:16,470 --> 01:57:19,980 West Virginia at the college radio station sunrise to sundown 1777 01:57:19,980 --> 01:57:23,400 everybody I did a whole show in the morning before I realized I 1778 01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:24,840 forgot to turn the transmitter on 1779 01:57:29,939 --> 01:57:37,259 yep cavemen all groggy you know, college kid came in all groggy 1780 01:57:37,259 --> 01:57:45,869 and like, start the show, Mike. Oh, no. Oh, no. There's a nice 1781 01:57:45,869 --> 01:57:49,739 row of Doc's. In fact, it's 22,000 to one and 22 from lavish 1782 01:57:49,739 --> 01:57:51,899 who says good meeting. Good meeting. I thank you. I 1783 01:57:51,899 --> 01:57:54,569 appreciate you. What else you got on your list there Dave? 1784 01:57:54,779 --> 01:57:58,169 Dave Jones: Oh, I got some paper towels. I guess I'm these did 1785 01:57:58,169 --> 01:58:01,559 not have time to print these. So there's gonna be a mix of Okay. 1786 01:58:01,619 --> 01:58:05,579 Have everything in one batch get Paul Saltzman 2222. Thank you, 1787 01:58:05,579 --> 01:58:13,739 Paul. Oh, get oh, the boys from Buzzsprout. Tom, Kevin, Alvin. 1788 01:58:14,519 --> 01:58:20,489 All the other guys. John. Eric, everybody. $1,000 1789 01:58:21,989 --> 01:58:26,669 Adam Curry: Sakala 20 is Blaze on am Paula. Man, I can't thank 1790 01:58:26,669 --> 01:58:30,239 you guys enough. You are really keeping it going for us. Thank 1791 01:58:30,239 --> 01:58:34,169 you so much. That's big. That's big as huge, huge. much 1792 01:58:34,170 --> 01:58:38,190 Dave Jones: appreciate it. Thanks, guys. Send us some fan 1793 01:58:38,190 --> 01:58:43,410 mail goes. away when we have to send no it doesn't work that 1794 01:58:43,410 --> 01:58:43,560 way. 1795 01:58:43,590 --> 01:58:45,960 Adam Curry: We got to put a link, we need a link with a fan 1796 01:58:45,960 --> 01:58:47,460 mail link and your family link. 1797 01:58:48,840 --> 01:58:51,420 Dave Jones: Trevor Satan's lawyer from Zeno are down in 1798 01:58:51,420 --> 01:58:52,770 Australia $5. 1799 01:58:52,890 --> 01:58:55,140 Adam Curry: I appreciate that Satan at least is listening to 1800 01:58:55,140 --> 01:58:56,430 us. Yeah, 1801 01:58:56,430 --> 01:59:01,500 Dave Jones: I mean, I just hope he doesn't sue us. But see, oh, 1802 01:59:01,500 --> 01:59:07,020 yeah. Paul airson longtime donor to the show. He's he said I'm 1803 01:59:07,020 --> 01:59:11,010 just a cynic. No doubt. Just want to Yeah, sure. Read a 1804 01:59:11,010 --> 01:59:13,470 little bit of he said, I'm just listening to the 180th for the 1805 01:59:13,500 --> 01:59:16,740 boardroom where you're talking about local podcasting. Sorry if 1806 01:59:16,740 --> 01:59:20,340 this comes up, but I'm only part of the way through. He says we 1807 01:59:20,340 --> 01:59:22,680 were just on vacation with a rental car and wanted to find 1808 01:59:22,680 --> 01:59:25,110 some local stations. So we hopped on the radio in the car 1809 01:59:25,110 --> 01:59:28,110 and started searching. That was very easy. And everyone knows 1810 01:59:28,110 --> 01:59:30,360 how to do that. How do we do this for podcasting? Is there a 1811 01:59:30,360 --> 01:59:34,800 geography tag or something similar that there that that is 1812 01:59:34,800 --> 01:59:38,880 there or could be added? Then podcast apps could use location 1813 01:59:39,510 --> 01:59:42,330 or zip code or something like that to find local bottom line 1814 01:59:42,330 --> 01:59:44,850 thought if local discoveries easier than the local digital 1815 01:59:44,850 --> 01:59:47,040 distribution may allow for faster uptick. 1816 01:59:48,270 --> 01:59:51,810 Adam Curry: When we changed the the geolocation tag to reflect 1817 01:59:51,810 --> 01:59:54,480 that if if that is something that someone is doing in that 1818 01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:56,070 tag? Well, 1819 01:59:56,069 --> 01:59:59,219 Dave Jones: the location tag is still for what the podcast is 1820 01:59:59,219 --> 02:00:01,589 about. Not What Yes, where it's I thought I 1821 02:00:01,589 --> 02:00:03,869 Adam Curry: heard James relenting and saying we should 1822 02:00:03,869 --> 02:00:09,809 change that to have an option to be where it's from. Who didn't 1823 02:00:09,809 --> 02:00:13,109 hear that? Yeah, yeah. Which I think is a good idea to make it 1824 02:00:13,109 --> 02:00:17,159 an option. That way, there's no confusion. It's either about 1825 02:00:17,159 --> 02:00:19,589 where it's about or where it originates from. 1826 02:00:21,510 --> 02:00:23,730 Dave Jones: Maybe there's maybe we need an attribute in there 1827 02:00:23,730 --> 02:00:26,280 that will toggle that. Yeah, I 1828 02:00:26,310 --> 02:00:28,920 Adam Curry: think that's what he was talking about. Okay, there 1829 02:00:28,920 --> 02:00:31,620 may be there may be a GitHub discussion about this. 1830 02:00:32,220 --> 02:00:36,630 Dave Jones: No, I'm gonna go look. Yeah. Michael Gagan $5 1831 02:00:36,630 --> 02:00:40,110 Thank you, Michael. Appreciate that. Charles current $5 Thank 1832 02:00:40,110 --> 02:00:44,370 you, Charles. We got a new monthly subscriber for $5 a 1833 02:00:44,370 --> 02:00:49,920 month Jorge Hernandez. Thank you. Appreciate that. We've got 1834 02:00:49,950 --> 02:00:55,890 Christopher reamer $10 The Chris Cohen glotzbach $5 James 1835 02:00:55,890 --> 02:01:02,520 Sullivan. $10. Jordan Dunnville $10 drips got $15 Thank you, 1836 02:01:02,520 --> 02:01:08,970 Joy. Thank you. Michael. Kimmerer $5.33 Pedro gun compass 1837 02:01:09,000 --> 02:01:13,650 $5 And that's all of our papers. Now. We got some boosts. See? 1838 02:01:15,780 --> 02:01:22,140 Here's some boosts. It sounds a boost. Chat F 33 333. That's a 1839 02:01:22,140 --> 02:01:25,740 big and three shout and he says great discussion on bringing 1840 02:01:25,740 --> 02:01:32,370 podcasting back to his roots. We try it we do try Sam Sethi. This 1841 02:01:32,370 --> 02:01:36,750 is from May the 18th 2625 through true fans he says true 1842 02:01:36,750 --> 02:01:40,770 fan support from Episode 180 serial churn Okay, so that it 1843 02:01:40,770 --> 02:01:41,880 must be an automated message. 1844 02:01:42,000 --> 02:01:46,950 Adam Curry: No, that's that's that is auto message his and it 1845 02:01:46,950 --> 02:01:50,760 shows up here my helipad as well so whether he listens to it or 1846 02:01:50,760 --> 02:01:55,230 not the way true fans works is it automatically sends a payment 1847 02:01:55,230 --> 02:01:58,230 when an episode drops that you've set up auto payments for 1848 02:01:59,010 --> 02:01:59,520 with 1849 02:01:59,550 --> 02:02:02,430 Dave Jones: with a message saying yes like the automated 1850 02:02:02,430 --> 02:02:03,390 boost. Yeah, cool. Cool. 1851 02:02:03,420 --> 02:02:05,040 Adam Curry: That's very cool. Yeah. 1852 02:02:06,180 --> 02:02:10,080 Dave Jones: Anonymous podcast guru users. 5000 SATs do podcast 1853 02:02:10,080 --> 02:02:13,830 guru he says I so love where all this is headed. This is what 1854 02:02:13,830 --> 02:02:16,950 gets me firing on all cylinders forward motion, progress and 1855 02:02:16,950 --> 02:02:20,040 dreaming all while recognizing the reality of just how fast 1856 02:02:20,040 --> 02:02:23,100 this is all materializing. Plus, Adam is speaking my language 1857 02:02:23,100 --> 02:02:24,210 today. NanHu NanHu. 1858 02:02:25,470 --> 02:02:27,870 Adam Curry: Progress is a process. 1859 02:02:30,120 --> 02:02:34,140 Dave Jones: Gene been 5000 says to cast Matic gene says y'all 1860 02:02:34,140 --> 02:02:37,230 are spot on podcasting is perfect for local. I think 1861 02:02:37,230 --> 02:02:40,140 that's one reason it works so well for church sermon podcasts 1862 02:02:40,140 --> 02:02:43,620 like the one I put out for my church called encouraged and 1863 02:02:43,620 --> 02:02:47,250 emboldened at E does CBN podcast.org. 1864 02:02:47,310 --> 02:02:51,420 Adam Curry: Nice. Yep. I believe in that. Brian 1865 02:02:51,420 --> 02:02:54,390 Dave Jones: Ensminger 1701 That's what you call a Star Trek 1866 02:02:54,390 --> 02:02:56,790 boosts. He says, Wow, the Google AI clip 1867 02:02:56,789 --> 02:03:00,689 Adam Curry: was hilarious. I don't remember what was it? That 1868 02:03:00,689 --> 02:03:05,249 Dave Jones: was two weeks ago. I don't remember either. 44 or 44 1869 02:03:05,249 --> 02:03:12,239 sets through from dwelve he's part of the social cast pod crew 1870 02:03:12,239 --> 02:03:15,989 Ah yes. Through cast Matic he says talking about scams is a 1871 02:03:15,989 --> 02:03:19,229 good time to promote one of my favorite listens darknet diaries 1872 02:03:19,229 --> 02:03:21,359 by Jack reciter Oh, yeah. 1873 02:03:22,500 --> 02:03:23,250 Adam Curry: Show Yeah. 1874 02:03:24,270 --> 02:03:27,630 Dave Jones: Jean been 2222 through cast ematic he says I 1875 02:03:27,630 --> 02:03:31,230 absolutely love the idea of titles and images for seasons. 1876 02:03:31,980 --> 02:03:36,240 Cool. Yep, we're gonna do this. Yes, yes. Alan see Paul striper 1877 02:03:36,240 --> 02:03:39,900 boosts 7777. To fountain he says this is a deep dive into the 1878 02:03:39,900 --> 02:03:42,810 nature of intellectual property in the way it will work in this 1879 02:03:42,810 --> 02:03:43,530 new system. 1880 02:03:44,189 --> 02:03:46,769 Adam Curry: We tried that too. Yeah. Everything's coming 1881 02:03:46,769 --> 02:03:49,589 together it but progress is a process. 1882 02:03:51,090 --> 02:03:55,500 Dave Jones: In the delimiter, comic strip blogger 23,000 sets 1883 02:03:56,700 --> 02:04:01,560 says it was a long one. It says Howdy, Dave and Adam. I'd like 1884 02:04:01,560 --> 02:04:05,040 to again recommend a podcast by two Texans. Been the 1885 02:04:05,040 --> 02:04:08,550 cybersecurity expert in gene the corporate efficiency expert, the 1886 02:04:08,550 --> 02:04:12,510 good old boys. They talk about fun stuff, quote from the latest 1887 02:04:12,510 --> 02:04:16,830 episode. Gene. I really wish they'd focus on some Linux stuff 1888 02:04:16,830 --> 02:04:21,000 but they haven't done that yet. Then Hey, you know, it's the 1889 02:04:21,000 --> 02:04:24,690 year of Linux. This is the official year of Linux. Find 1890 02:04:24,690 --> 02:04:32,430 their podcast at www was that a transcript? By now what it 1891 02:04:32,430 --> 02:04:34,590 really reels you in and makes you want to listen to the show. 1892 02:04:35,640 --> 02:04:40,230 Find their podcast@www.ge Just two good old boys.com or search 1893 02:04:40,230 --> 02:04:45,120 for it in podcasting 2.0 apps to use their transcript yo CSB. 1894 02:04:45,150 --> 02:04:46,080 Adam Curry: Yo, 1895 02:04:46,260 --> 02:04:48,150 Dave Jones: yo Thank you CSB. Yeah, brother, 1896 02:04:48,149 --> 02:04:52,499 Adam Curry: thank you. Help. He's mad when we slag off AI. 1897 02:04:54,299 --> 02:04:58,649 Believer, he's a believer. He's a believer in AI. And he'll 1898 02:04:58,650 --> 02:05:01,080 Dave Jones: be a believer in it in take yours. 1899 02:05:03,689 --> 02:05:06,419 Adam Curry: Well, I think we were jam packed with a board 1900 02:05:06,419 --> 02:05:10,049 meeting. Let's build some wallets. Everybody. Yes, let's 1901 02:05:10,049 --> 02:05:13,229 come up with some stuff that we'll be looking at when we see 1902 02:05:13,229 --> 02:05:16,949 if we can offer some some ideas and solutions. And if you have 1903 02:05:16,949 --> 02:05:20,339 them, let us know if there's anything out there, so we can 1904 02:05:20,339 --> 02:05:24,269 keep this going. I think it's a good idea. It does work. It does 1905 02:05:24,299 --> 02:05:27,179 work. You see it right here, right here on this program. 1906 02:05:27,840 --> 02:05:29,520 Dave Jones: I'll send that way late. Just send me an email 1907 02:05:29,520 --> 02:05:33,180 saying there's a duplicate feed for Ainsley that 1908 02:05:33,180 --> 02:05:36,390 Adam Curry: may the I may have done that. Did you? Okay, I 1909 02:05:36,390 --> 02:05:38,820 might have but the question is, which one do we delete? 1910 02:05:40,050 --> 02:05:43,290 Dave Jones: He's shows me the one to delete. I'll take care of 1911 02:05:43,290 --> 02:05:43,800 it. But 1912 02:05:43,800 --> 02:05:46,590 Adam Curry: will that screw up the boost that we've done here 1913 02:05:46,590 --> 02:05:47,460 on the show? 1914 02:05:49,080 --> 02:05:51,210 Dave Jones: No, no, I don't think so. Well screw up 1915 02:05:51,210 --> 02:05:53,820 Adam Curry: my value time split that I'm going to put in after 1916 02:05:53,820 --> 02:05:58,650 the fact. No, no, no, because it points to the feed right? Yeah. 1917 02:05:58,680 --> 02:06:01,920 Okay. All right. You'll take care of it. Again. Yeah, I think 1918 02:06:01,920 --> 02:06:04,680 it was my fault because I needed to grab the track with the value 1919 02:06:04,680 --> 02:06:08,370 time split stuff. And it wasn't in there yet. And I didn't know 1920 02:06:08,370 --> 02:06:11,370 if they were going to put it in on time. So I think I dropped 1921 02:06:11,370 --> 02:06:13,230 it. I dropped it. I'm sorry. Both of these. 1922 02:06:13,259 --> 02:06:14,819 Dave Jones: They both did. They have the same good so they 1923 02:06:14,819 --> 02:06:15,329 should okay, 1924 02:06:15,360 --> 02:06:17,790 Adam Curry: I duped it. I'm sorry. I created a dupe I try 1925 02:06:17,790 --> 02:06:24,120 not to do the power of the good. Let's have a great weekend 1926 02:06:24,120 --> 02:06:27,480 Brother Dave. And thank you everybody in the boardroom. 1927 02:06:27,480 --> 02:06:30,510 We'll be back next week Friday podcast 2.0. 1928 02:06:45,899 --> 02:06:50,489 Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast 1929 02:06:50,489 --> 02:06:53,219 index.org. For more information, 1930 02:06:53,550 --> 02:06:57,780 Adam Curry: go podcast. TV is what's playing in God's waiting 1931 02:06:57,780 --> 02:06:58,200 room.