Adam Curry: podcasting cuboid over July 1994 Episode 185
everybody we are back once again oh the saddle feels so good
welcome to podcast. We are the official boardroom boy no
family, everything is going on in podcasts and you want to know
what the future is it starts right here we are the only
boardroom that thumbs its nose at the blue screen of death. I'm
Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in
Alabama the man who can reboot four domain controllers with one
hand tied behind his back to a friend on the other end Mr.
Jones
Dave Jones: international blistering day.
Adam Curry: Everybody blue screen
Dave Jones: you never saw like as a as a corporation or
organization or anything you never want to have like a date
named after you like seven nights?
Adam Curry: Yeah. Yeah, no, you don't like Jan
Dave Jones: six? You just don't ever want well, do
Adam Curry: you want me just call it J 19. Make it easy.
That's it's easy to remember J 19. Day everybody. And the thing
that bothers me and I do want because you are a systems
administrator, amongst many other important jobs. The thing
that bothers me so much is when I see reporting that says, You
know what, what am I going to say?
Dave Jones: Glitch?
Adam Curry: Blame it on the glitch? Just working 10 minutes,
it wasn't that hard to blame it
Unknown: on the glitch. Yeah, well, reporters don't care. This
kind of day. Here's a song I
Adam Curry: was going to keep going with intro
Unknown: to the song idea. Find this song. It's Michael Jackson,
blame it on the boogie to blame it on the glitch. You can think
that I think it can be done
Adam Curry: it could be blamed on the button.
Unknown: Now that sounds too similar. I can hear three rights
alerts to get the rhymes right. I
Adam Curry: can hear Chris popping the beer as we speak.
Don't
Unknown: blame it on the bass. Don't blame it on the blame
around the glitch.
Adam Curry: You call this a glitch. All right, I got my
system
Dave Jones: glitch glitch listings, where you're where
your screen blinks and you're like, Wait,
Adam Curry: what is going on? I know that is that
Dave Jones: is a glitch, a a global a global event that
brings down a banking system. And airlines. That
Adam Curry: is not a good it's not a glitch. No. And you know,
so I woke up this morning. I think well, I saw your message
first. But then I looked at my daughter who works in healthcare
in the Netherlands at Holland man Schiphol Airport KLM they
are they part of Microsoft? I mean, are they an annex of
Microsoft? Everything was she could make phone calls, you
know, everything was completely hosed. And then of course, I see
all the messages. And and at that point, I didn't know what
it was. And you're like, Well, probably not going to be a show
today. And like, oh, no, no, we can go three weeks without a
board meeting. No,
Dave Jones: it was so like ag I started reading No, I was I was
rotten, the toilet scroller this morning as one does about 615.
And I start seeing these reports. And I'm like, Ha, what
is this? I start looking at my oh, gosh, that sounds bad. And
then there's like, it's related to crowd a bad CrowdStrike
update. And I was like, Oh, crap. Yeah. So I flip over to my
email and start trying to interpret, start trying to
interpret what I'm seeing in corporate email to what is know
about what's happening in the news. And I'm like, Oh, this is
bad. Yeah. And it turns out like a lot of times, so think, so
here's the, for people who are not like, fully understanding
what the tech is here. I mean, CrowdStrike is what they call a
Adam Curry: piece of crap. Sorry, that just slipped out. I
didn't mean that.
Dave Jones: Grandpa CrowdStrike is an in endpoint security
platform. So you it's, it's what you used to call antivirus. But
it's evolved anti viruses evolved in the corporate world
to be way more comprehensive than this. So it's doing it's
doing so many things that Steve is doing heuristics. It's doing
traditional signature scans. It's looking for behaviors that
are that are funky. So like, for instance, if I open an Excel
spreadsheet in that Excel spreadsheet and goes out and
downloads a binary file off the internet and attempts to run it,
yeah, that's odd behavior. Cloud
Adam Curry: strike will go stop, stop, stop. That's not cool.
Dave Jones: Yeah, right. So that is highly suspicious behavior.
So it looks it has all these heuristics in in it, that, that
looks for these sorts of things. And one of the so it is
constantly getting just like antivirus is constantly getting
fed these new signatures, signature files, to update its
itself to look to see the latest problems. And to recognize them
is this happens with antivirus, we about 10 years ago, the
company I was with had was at the time was using Trend Micro
Trend Micro had is maybe 1012 years ago, Trend Micro
misinterpret pushed out a signature update that
misidentified remote, a remote assistance software that we were
using as a virus. So where you know where you can like take
over somebody's screen and help them out remotely? Yeah. So it
uninstalled it from everybody's machine.
Adam Curry: So it has that permission as well to just
uninstall stuff. Get
Dave Jones: delete files quarantine entire machines. Oh,
it's
Adam Curry: Wow, that's,
Dave Jones: that's very powerful.
Adam Curry: Very powerful. Yeah.
Dave Jones: So what like one thing you can do? There's,
there's settings within a lot. So the two primary competitors
are CrowdStrike and carbon black, right? Like, at the top
level, when we're talking about, you know, enterprise, high value
targets. Yeah, you're usually either gonna find CrowdStrike or
carbon black CrowdStrike is by far the most dominant now, it
used to be the other way around. So those are those are your two
biggies. So crap that both of those products will do things
like if it notices suspicious network activity, it will shut
down the network cards on the on the machine to only allow to
allow nothing but the CrowdStrike agent to communicate
with it. So that you as the administrator could like
remotely go in communicating with the CrowdStrike agent on
that machine. But
Adam Curry: it has to actually have been booted up. Yes. In
order for that to take place.
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah. So that so what happened? Was they
pushed out? Yeah, in this update. So CrowdStrike, that
CrowdStrike? Agent?
Adam Curry: Can I ask? Can I ask you a question? Because this is
highly fascinating to me. First of all, don't blame DNS,
everybody. For this one time. It wasn't DNS, sec. Is it typical
for any company? And maybe specifically CrowdStrike to push
an update on a Friday morning?
Dave Jones: These guys push updates 12. Okay. But look, if
they if they noticed something, they're constantly pushing
updates, I mean, sometimes hourly, okay. So I don't know
exactly what kind of update this was. I don't know if this was a
like a virus signature update. I'm not sure yet. But what the
CrowdStrike agent is, and this applies to, you know, carbon
black and others as well, it is a kernel driver as a kernel
driver. It's just like a video card driver or anything else
like it has access to ring zero. Okay,
Adam Curry: so this is why you can boot up in safe mode because
it bypasses all those kinds of add ons. Right.
Dave Jones: And it's I think, if I'm not mistaken, the part of it
they dot that didn't cause the problem was the part of it.
That's the, what they call a network filter driver. And that,
because if you if you boot up in safe mode at work, if you boot
up in Safe Mode with networking, it doesn't it will still cry,
right? So what you saw what everybody has to do in this
applies to everybody across the globe, if you're affected by
this, every machine that has this problem, you're going to
have to walk to that machine, physically with with either a
flat, Windows bootable flash drive, or just go to the
machine. If it's got a recovery partition and boot into that,
you're going to have to drop to a command line and remove the
latest update file, then reboot the machine. So that's and
that's that's if the that's if the disk is not BitLocker
encrypted if it's BitLocker.
Adam Curry: I've lived in BitLocker encrypted for a couple
of like a two weeks so I'm switching just hearing about it.
Because
Dave Jones: what happened If the if the C drive is BitLocker
encrypted is that which most, if you're doing your job writing
corporate it is, is you you boot up, go into the recovery part
into the recovery tools, go to the command line. And as soon as
it tries to drop into a command line to unlock the C drive, it's
going to come up and ask for a recovery key, which you have to
go get from Microsoft, which you have to either know, well, in a
corporate invite, you're gonna have to get it out of Active
Directory. Yeah. So you're gonna have to go into Active
Directory, find that machine print the Recovery Code, which
is a grouping, like and then
Adam Curry: type it in a million times. You never stop typing. I
know, like, 40883 I know some of those by heart now. Yeah,
Dave Jones: it's it's eight groups of six numbers. Yes, it's
48 numbers. So you type all this stuff on a stuff out, and then
you drop into command line, then you have to go and delete the
file and reboot. You're gonna have to do this, like here. I
heard this morning UAB, the University of
Adam Curry: Birmingham, oh, they must have had hundreds of
machines.
Dave Jones: I mean, no, 10s of 1000s of machines is across
their entire network across the entire college is down. Oh, no.
They had they're the biggest employer in the state. They
have, like 100,000 employees.
Adam Curry: And so every single one of those individual machines
that accesses through the domain controller got this update, is
that how it works? Every
Dave Jones: every agent of CrowdStrike is an independent
entity. So all communicate,
Adam Curry: here's so I so I posted some stuff. And the first
thing I posted was be kind to your IT administrator today. How
were the people in your organization? Kind? Go? Yeah,
they
Dave Jones: were okay. Very cool. Oh, yeah. They're great.
Yeah,
Adam Curry: it was what like, you walk around with like, you
know, like holsters and any Bandito crossbelt of ammo and
stuff. So people have been trained to be nice to you.
Dave Jones: Leave me alone. When it get if they if they see me
walking around with a cup of coffee, they know it's bad.
Because that's like, you know, I need emotional support coffee.
Adam Curry: That Has this ever happened with CrowdStrike?
Dave Jones: No, not that I've not aware of any of this ever
happening before. It happens. It happens with other vendors. Like
Like I mentioned, Lee like 10 or 12 years ago. Yeah, Trend Micro
uninstalled all of our remote assistance software,
Adam Curry: you but it's still updated, still booted up, right?
Dave Jones: It booted up. But there's been other ones like
Kaspersky had a problem a long time ago, where they blue
screened a bunch of computer Russians, it know it, it's
unknown, whenever, whenever you have kernel level, whenever you
have kernel level access, if you do something. So if you if
you're a driver, and you do something that causes a page
fault, that machine is going to crash, I
Adam Curry: just thought of a song they call me CrowdStrike
driver. Road and I'm gone. What's my controller? I wonder
where your domain controllers go doo doo doo doo doo. Yeah, I'm
Dave Jones: working. That's the other thing is that, you know,
by design, things like CrowdStrike, carbon black, these
these endpoint security tools. They're made to look for
suspicious behavior on machines, right? So where where you want
these things to live? is in your most critical servers first?
Yeah. So you're gonna have, you're always going to have this
stuff on your domain controllers on remote access, or like a
remote desktop, windows, remote desktop servers, all the stuff
that's critical points of entry, or authentication, you're gonna
have CrowdStrike on that thing, so that when, when they eff up
like this is going to take out all your critical stuff. First,
all your domain controllers are screwed. You know, it's bad.
Adam Curry: It's bad. So my, my general feeling about this,
because this the timing of this is interesting. We had the, the
end of the I don't like Christ. CrowdStrike is a company that
had been involved in all kinds of political, even one of the
founders, you know, think tanks and political based activity, I
could go way into it way deep back to the DNC server hack. And
there's a lot of stuff that they've been involved in that
that I just don't like. Yeah. And of course, that's my other
job. So when I see this, and I was kind of thinking, you know,
we had Trump to his his final acceptance speech last night,
think, well, well, how can they disrupt the news? Because
obviously, it was going to be the top story. You know, he did
some interesting things. I think we're good. You know, the news
media, of course, like, oh, with meandering, rambling, whatever,
fine. But I was wondering how would they detract from it
because you know, we just had an assassination attempt on a
former president on a presidential candidate The news
cycle is kind of stuck in this. And I thought since you know,
President Biden, you know, they changed the the DNC rules, well,
we're not going to virtually Crown Him, you know, we're gonna
wait. And then he went home with COVID, after saying the only
reason I'll resign is if I have some medical condition. I'm
like, I'll be perfect. You know, Biden resigns, that'll that'll
change the new cycle. And then this happened. And it was,
although annoying the fix, I mean, I can read the
instructions. Anybody can fix this, like, oh, I can get the
instructions on my phone, I can figure out how to boot in safe
mode, I can go into this directory. And I could probably
fix it for my friends and my family. So I'm looking at this
like, wow, this is what a great distraction this was and
relatively easy to recover from. And then I'm looking a little
bit and I'm looking at some of the material. And here's some
marketing. Cybersecurity in elections security Resource
Center, cybersecurity is a fundamental pillar of election
security. The election community and their partners in government
NGOs, and the private sector must remain vigilant in the face
of potential threats. This is one of the crowd strikes, main
lines of business is voting machines.
Dave Jones: Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't know that.
Adam Curry: Now. They're not these machines are supposedly
not supposed to be connected to anything. But it just seems like
wow, what a what a fun trial run this was
Dave Jones: this right? If it's if it's running the CrowdStrike
agent, it would have to be connected to something. Well, I
mean, make any sense? Oh,
Adam Curry: I mean, please do let's let's not kill each other,
let's not kill each other about the connectedness of these
voting machines. Right? So I'm, I don't know, that concerns me a
little bit, but at least we could get back from this. Okay.
And although there will be a lot of lawsuits, and there's going
to be all kinds of nonsense for CrowdStrike is not not a good
day for those guys.
Dave Jones: Well, there there should, there should be a way to
win. That's always been a point of contention with within user
license agreements. You can't just it's you can't just put
anything into a lender user license agreement and have it be
legally enforceable. Right. So I mean, like, if I'm driving down
the street, in a brand new Ford F 150. And the and the brakes,
you know, fall off and I, you know, run off the road and get
into a horrible accident. Ford can't just say, Don't look at
us. You bought it?
Adam Curry: Well, like just the fact you're on the road, didn't
you see the EULA at the beginning of the road, and you
click the box automatically as you drove by.
Dave Jones: But somehow the software companies think they
can just put, they can put into their EULA? Hey, if anything
happens to you, because of our software, we're not responding
on our problem. That is, just because you write it into an end
user license agreement doesn't mean that that that's true. I
mean, it has still has to be legal. Yeah. You know, and I
think, no, I think all the software companies they claim
just blanket, just blanket, not our problem. Anything. Yeah, but
I just, that's yet to be really challenged in court very hard.
To my knowledge. So
Adam Curry: now did you have to speak to your CrowdStrike
representative, your team member
Dave Jones: now, we're small potatoes to them, they, they're
too busy. Now, I did talk to a vendor this morning. That we
that we use to for like procurement and that kind of
thing. Yeah. And he said, this, this is a big outfit with you
know, I don't know, this guy to have 40,000 employees about 50%
or work from home. And he said every single one of them is
affected
Adam Curry: by my workstation. So they can't even log
Dave Jones: how do you how do you send your IT people out to
somebody's house? I mean, it this is a disaster. Now do you
have to complete this in
Adam Curry: general so this is you know, obviously a very
centralized issue. You know, it shows you how vulnerable
everything really is. Are you going to make any other
decisions in your infrastructure there based upon what happened
here? Days like I've been here 20 years screw it, they can
pounce and whatever.
Dave Jones: Honestly, no, I think those I think make like
changing things. A lot of times after events like this, Charlie
buys he's just much yeah, this is just my general take on
things usually is that that's never it's always it's kind of
awake and less. So so if you're if you're a company that uses
CrowdStrike and and you find out that what caused this was a
deliberate
Adam Curry: we'll find that agents Yeah. Yeah,
Dave Jones: if it was negligence, like pure
negligence, like, and that's the question I have is. So if you're
CrowdStrike? Don't you have testings machine? Yeah, that's
you have 1000 virtual machines that spin up and test every day
before it goes out. Do you think this possibly happen? Yeah. I
mean, this was a note, this was a no brainer. So like, what
happened is, if your computer was, was up and running, with
the, if your computer was up and running between roughly
midnight, and about three o'clock this morning, 3am this
morning, your computer as soon as it got the minute, it got
this update in a blue screen? Right? It was toast, right?
Like, how is that not caught? During the during test? I mean,
you were talking about we're talking about millions of
computers here. This was not hands of millions. Yes. I don't,
I cannot understand how this guy through testing. So if it turns
out that this was just pure negligence. Yeah. And a part of
you says, Okay, well, you know, maybe you started looking for a
change. But then the other part of you says, once you're tested
by fire, you get your act together. And also, you know,
CrowdStrike, to my knowledge has never had a problem when, when
other companies have, you know, this is if you run if you run an
endpoint security products, endpoint security software
platform, this right here, what happened today, this is what
keeps you up at night, because it's so easy to do. If you mess
up, you've just hosed millions of machines all at once. Yeah.
So it's like, it's not it's a risk that you're getting when
you as soon as you install any product on your machine that has
a driver component and is connected to the internet and
gets automatic updates. You are accepting that risk into your
machine? So I mean, it's it's hard to say because, because
once you know, one time in the past, when we had when we had
that Trend Micro problem, you know, at a previous company, we
did switch, we switched to a different result. We're now a
different vendor. And then But then Trend Micro, they never had
that problem again. So you know, it's just, it's one of those
things. I mean, I think I think anytime you This is it doesn't
matter which software you choose. This is the risk you
face across the board. It could be it could be carbon black
tomorrow, it could be Kaspersky a couple of months from now, who
knows?
Adam Curry: So of course, the Linux boys are all smiling. Huh?
Dave Jones: The other all smug.
Adam Curry: Mac boys. Think different.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's amazing. Like, it's amazing that that,
that Linux has not had more instances like this. We've come
close with like Heartbleed and ShellShock. And some of these
some of these issues, but with in with the one was it like a
month or two ago? Where they almost got that xe library?
Where they would backdoor everybody's Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah,
Dave Jones: that's that was
Adam Curry: the estimate that was that the SSH thing? This
Dave Jones: was? Yeah, this was going to put a backdoor in
everybody's SSH server. Right. Yeah. So it's amazing to me
that, that Linux has not had more issues that this hasn't
happened. Yeah. Yeah. You
Adam Curry: know, my buddy, the oil baron he had he had to have
people up in the middle of the night because all of his SCADA
controllers are on Windows. And that controls you know, like oil
flow, minor things, minor things.
Dave Jones: I mean, imagine if you're in an organization that
has that has 25 or 30,000 workstations. Yeah, spread out
across the big geographic canvas or region. You're gonna have to
deputize you know, temporary IT people and teach them how to
cool
Adam Curry: does that come with a badge?
Unknown: It will store
Adam Curry: deputy IT manager here. I'm here to help ma'am.
Now the CEO call you the CEO. Yeah, no. Oh, really? He doesn't
call I'm just checking with you.
Dave Jones: Oh, you mean a vargr? Yeah, we talked Yeah, we
talked. Yeah.
Adam Curry: How does that conversation go?
Dave Jones: No, that's fine. It's fine. I mean, because, you
know, we like a thing that I've always had. And this has been
everywhere. I've worked a thing that sort of a principle I've
always had is every bit every employee turn their computer off
at night. Right. That's always been my because for a lot of
different reasons. Number one is If you have power glitches or
like glitch outs, you know, you have power surges or brownouts
or things like that. I mean, if the computer is off, you know,
anything to worry about, if you have, if you have some, if you
ever had some sort of intrusion or cyber event, if everything's
off, that just lowers your blast radius, right? There's so many
reasons to keep your computer turned off, when you're not
actively working. And because of that, that limits the blast
radius of things like this, you know, so you and you end up if,
if only five people in an organization of 300 have their
computers left their computers on last night? Well, then you
only got five computers to visit and right, you're fine. So I
think
Adam Curry: so you just had to tell people don't boot up this
morning. Was that basically that don't start your computer?
Dave Jones: No, no, if you had your computer off last night,
you were fine. You never you could boot right out and go to
work. You never had an issue. Because Because when CrowdStrike
pushed that update out, started seeing
Adam Curry: the hat and then returning to retract that, yeah,
roll it back.
Dave Jones: Got it gotta go. If you turn your computer off at
five o'clock in the afternoon and left the office yesterday,
thing came in at eight o'clock this morning and booted it up.
You hadn't you never had any?
Adam Curry: Because I'm a guy who always leaves his computer
on always, bright day night. And so you know, should I also
adhere to the sage advice?
Dave Jones: Well, that that advice is applies to people who
have no who have no services running on their machine that
they need to access, which is 99% of all corporate rise,
right? The 1% of people like in in in system admin, or things
like that, or home computers that this applies to it, you
know that that doesn't apply. But you know, there's I leave a
leave of generally about four different machines. I've bounced
between at least two of them own because they have things I need.
And like, like this bill podcast really gets run in my notes. So
yeah, but but if you don't have a reason to Yeah, I think it's
always a good idea to keep it off. Because you don't you
don't. It could be a Windows, the windows. So Windows Defender
had this problem a few years ago. Oh, really started breaking
machines with a bad with a bad antivirus update. And so I mean,
it could be Windows itself that causes
Adam Curry: that's always my fear. Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah, that's not that's a real thing that has
happened. So just in general, in a corporate environment. I have
seen so many issues of so many catastrophes averted by
enforcing a corporate policy of powering off your machines.
Yeah, well, did anyone did anyone give you any button
anytime?
Adam Curry: Did anyone give you any gifts or come in and say
Hey, thanks, Dave.
Dave Jones: No, I got a bunch of rough morning, huh?
Adam Curry: And that's almost like, hey, jiggle the handle
full. rough morning helps.
Dave Jones: You also in you know where, when? Anytime. Something
like this happens. You always get a few, like the stragglers
that get in at like a you know, 10am Hey, what's going on, man?
Yeah, they're like, hey, some seeds be wrong with my computer.
Oh, yeah. Really? Hello,
Adam Curry: Captain Obvious. Welcome to the party. Yeah,
well, I'm glad glad it wasn't too bad. Because I was like, oh,
man, if this is really bad day, it's gonna be working all
weekend.
Dave Jones: It's Friday. Yeah, they have a feel for my brothers
and sisters and that T out there that are going to be working for
days. Yeah, fix this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, think about the
and think about you like, like here at UAB Hospital in
Birmingham. Think about the the MRI machines. Yeah. Oh, man.
It's a nightmare. There's gonna be so much fallout. Yeah,
Adam Curry: well change the news cycle. Good job, everybody.
That's all we really needed. Just change the new cycle.
That's how we roll corporate America stretch. Yes. Right of
the week. That's right. And of course this coming to you from
the company who we know very well here podcasting. 2.0 This
is their, this their corporate sound. That was there. That was
their cue map their pew pew map. That's
Dave Jones: right. That was for a blue.
Adam Curry: That was that was CrowdStrike.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but what what would they were tracking
something? No,
Adam Curry: it was it was just like, look at the threat map.
You know, this is every single thing you see is is an attack.
Remember that stupid map.
Dave Jones: But But yeah, but that map they made that map in
to give real time tracking of some
Adam Curry: of bullcrap
Dave Jones: was going across the globe.
Adam Curry: Let me see if I can find it. Let me see. It was like
Dave Jones: it was like bullet bock. What was the name of that
thing that hit Europe so hard a few years ago. Here's
Adam Curry: a live cyber threat map I think they took out a pew
pew though it took out the pew pew
Dave Jones: it was it was poor man's worm. It was that worm
that was going through those hidden Europe like crazy.
Awesome, eternal blue. No, that's not right.
Adam Curry: The threat map is pretty introverted. Too bad that
took out the pews I got to provide my own here. There we
go. I feel better no no looking.
Dave Jones: They still have it they still run it.
Adam Curry: Yeah threat map is it checkpoint? Was that
checkpoint? Who had that? His checkpoint from CrowdStrike I
can't remember now.
Dave Jones: Anyway, I'm trying to it's killing me that I can't
remember the name of that thing. Because there was like a whole
bunch of okay, so you remember this it when it was like this
worm named
Adam Curry: Noah storm warm storm worm. I'm just reading
from from the boardroom.
Dave Jones: It was this worm that started going across
primarily Europe. And then you somebody read this dude
registered a domain that he found in this in the
disassembled code of the worm. And registering that domain
stopped its propagation. Like that's, that's how it knew to
That's it was checking for that domain
Adam Curry: and it was non existent. I can kind of recall
this.
Dave Jones: And then the guy who registered it ended up getting
on like the morto
Adam Curry: worm watch list. The morto worm, the flaccid worm
funny now flat.
Dave Jones: It shouldn't be ended up on the NSA watch
Adam Curry: list. Oh, of course. Of course. Of course. Makes
nothing but sense. Yeah, I can't. Anyway. Welcome back,
everybody. Good to be back in the boardroom. We do have a
number of pressing issues to take care of today. You want to
start with wallets?
Dave Jones: See if I can. I can pull myself away from wanna cry.
That's it.
Adam Curry: No wanna cry? Yeah, I remember that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it was. Yeah, the kill switch. Was a domain
registration. Yeah, want to want to cry. That's, that was the
first time I saw the PPU map was wondering. Cuz somebody built a
tracker anyway. Yeah. So what are we doing?
Adam Curry: What are we doing? Well, we've had a little, little
issue with wallets recently. And we've, since the last boarding
board meeting, you and I, and I guess everybody has kind of been
banging their head, what are we going to do? The main issue
being that custodial wallets with keys and our custodial
wallets in general, are clearly going to be a problem for a
whole bunch of reasons. And we've been looking for solutions
that do not include key sensing is it's pretty much the pardon
me for the gingers, but the ugly redheaded stepchild of
lightning. And it's just not being supported. And people
really don't care much. It's kind of it's there. But
everyone's you know, more interested in Bolt 12. In which
by itself is funny. And so we kind of went through it an
interesting exercise. First of all, there is there are
solutions for people who want to be sovereign. I'll be hub.
There's, you know, there's plenty you can run your own
node, there's plenty of ways that you can do it if you want
to be sovereign. But if you want to have a custodial type
solution where you don't have to think too much, you're really
going to have to do that with a someone with an outfit that has
a money transmitter license. This is why Fountain has no
issue. Seeing as they are their back end is Ebody and Zebedee
except for Florida has money transmitter licenses so they can
legally do this and be custodial. I think that's why
wav Lake move to them as well. Because you know, it's for
music. I mean, really to onboard listeners is a nightmare. To
onboard podcasters is kind of doable if you want to help them
set up an Alby hub or your own node. I mean, there's podcasters
are kind of like the ham radio operators of podcasting. You
know, it's like, yeah, I'm willing to try it and dive in.
As long as Dave Jackson can explain it to me. And but for
listeners, but when you get to musicians, no, no, that's just a
nonstarter and becomes very confusing. When you like, well,
you know, you want to get a fountain wallet and the there's
a lot of steps are kind of complicated. Alby, which we had,
of course centralized on We all knew it, we all knew that this
could be a problem one way or the other. Luckily, the problem
came. And we all saw it. And we started searching for solutions.
And so one of the things that you were the last time we were
in the board meeting, and one of the things we came up with, was
the idea of E cash. And the reason why e cash was
interesting is because it was easy to it can use any transport
mechanism. So you could even you can even send a payment through
email, technically, it's just a, just a token that you're sending
is a long string of of number of characters. And the the mint
side of it, which we don't have to go into was running through
the strike API. And strike, of course, has a money transmitter
license, as strike. But I think that because of this, we started
to start to look at strike. Strike does not implement key
sin. But strike has a lot of other benefits. The number one
being a money transmitter license, number two being Jack
Mahler's number three big corporate interests behind it.
So it's not going to go away, it's not going to run into the
if it runs into legislation issues, they have a corporation
behind it to take care of it. So I think we were kind of looking
at that moment for how do we get something that's easy for
podcast app developers to implement? Ie some kind of
simple API? Oh, auth, etc? And how do we keep it working? You
know, Legacy things working? And how do we look forward to the
future when new things come along? And how do we keep an
open sovereign solution for everybody who doesn't want to be
a part of a corporate system? Does that kind of explain where
we were at?
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think so. And that's pretty much it. Yeah.
And
Adam Curry: so strike has an O off the implementation. And of
course, they have liquidity and back end and everything, which
would make it very easy for podcasters for, for listeners to
just sign up to strike, it has some benefits, which I hadn't
really ever played around with strike, but you can literally
connect it to a bank card or to your bank account, and you just
see fiat money in there. And you can say, this was the test that
I did. I want to send $1 to Adam over at this node. And it just
sent went $1 Now it came in on my notice SATs. But it just knew
whatever it to send and it was very comfortable for for me of
course no problem. I look at Satoshis I get it, but it was
just $1 sent and it went through and it came in and you know,
whatever. 1600 50 SATs so it worked. We both independently
had a talk with Oscar. Oscar Mary from fountain and Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah. Now of course he's smart. He be back doors us like
everybody else's day for everybody back doors. Oh, no,
no, you were you were super special because he backdoored
you first. And I don't think I should use that phrase.
Dave Jones: Please don't say they need back channel.
Adam Curry: Oh, no, that's not good either. And back channels.
Now he, he probably contacted you initially for the same
thing. He contacted me which was for, for his his chat
integration with noster. Which I which I mean, he went through
all this and said, you know, Oscar, this is really
interesting. We have a bigger problem. And it's your problem,
too. We have to figure out what to do with wallets and payments,
because you can't be the only the only guy in town. It won't
work. I mean, it won't take off. And and so I probably had the
same conversation with you. In fact, I'm gonna read. I'm gonna
read his email, which he sent. And then we kind of walk through
this morning. Yeah, then we can work through it because I asked
him can you build a demo to show everybody what we're doing? And
he says, I'll read this. I think the consensus is that if we
include the ln address attribute in the value block the returns
an options file with multiple lightning payment options, we
can achieve the following Bolt 11 invoice payments therefore
give apps and hosting companies the ability to support v for V
payments with easy Oh auth integration with custodial
providers like strike, continue to support key Sen and have a
path to support Bolt 12 Which by the way, right in the middle of
all this strike all of a sudden came up with their bolt, 12
sandbox or play house or whatever they call it ground
playground to continue to support keys and have a path
toward Bolt 12 without having to make another change to the value
block spec. To help facilitate this I'm going to create a demo
flow that includes a test feed with a strike lightning address.
An example app wallet linking flow with strike Oh off. With
this we'll be able to create a demo video where the listener
can send a boost to a podcast or which appears in the local
currency rather than Bitcoin? Okay, I feel pretty comfortable
about what he's saying here.
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, me too. So let me, let me take everything
that the, the Yeah, just
Adam Curry: translate that into something.
Dave Jones: So. So currently historically, when we first
crank this thing out, we had this, you know, to the concept
of two different ways to get paid. And it was streaming
payments per minute. And boosts they're both essentially the
same thing. Under the covers, they both are a lightning
payment, a key a key send lightning payment. The key, you
know, the keys and being the pertinent phrase, they're,
they're a key send lightning payment with a T or V record
attached that has the corresponding metadata about the
payment, who's who is the sending it a message? What,
Adam Curry: what podcast what, what episode, timestamp
Dave Jones: in the episode, all these things. So that's
essentially what's happened, whether it's a per streaming
payment or a boost, the payment, the payload, and they form the
payment takes is exactly the same. They're both key send
payments, but the reason we chose key send is because by
default, lightning required what's called a bolt 11 invoice,
right? So a bolt 11 invoice means that the receiving end of
this of a payment has to create an A in an invoice with what's
called a preimage value, and then send the invoice for the
amount to the payer, then the payer gives that invoice to
their lightning node, which then encrypts the preimage in an
onion, and goes back in and sends it through, which is
basically route
Adam Curry: so glad you're simplifying this.
Dave Jones: The Onion, the onion is like a series of of
Adam Curry: all of a sudden, we're cooking with onions,
what's happened to the story? I'm crying.
Dave Jones: So if you have three, if you have three hops in
the route from you to this other to the destination, from you to
the to the payee, then you're going to have three layers in
this in this encrypted onion that didn't get successively
unwrapped until the payee itself can validate that preimage
matches. And that's how this thing works, right. So you can
see that they needed to be able, they needed to generate the
invoice at the payee rather than the payer, so that they could do
this verification process on the preimage. The but but the whole
thing is just clumsy. To have in the real world, you never have
to ask somebody whether or not you can pay them and how much
you just write a cheque and hand it to them like or are you just
send it in the mail, and they just get it like there's no,
this, this requirement to require the payee to do
something before you can give them money is just weird. So
that's,
Adam Curry: it's very unintuitive in today's digital
payment world.
Dave Jones: It is if I have a PayPal address, you can just
send me money if you know my email address. That's it, you
don't have to ask my permission. So So key so we chose key sin
because it avoided that process keys and uses the node the nodes
public key as as the the preimage. I believe that's the
way that works. And maybe I may be wrong, but I believe that's
that's the way it works. So you have set the payment can just as
long as you know this other person's lightning node public
key, you can just send them a payment. And they get it as long
as they have Kison. Enabled, which which most of the of the
like self run nodes do. But the big the problem is the big
players like strike Cash App in the in those those lightning
supporting services. They don't they don't support keys. And so
key sin has always been more it's always been a more
efficient way to send payments for payers, but it just doesn't
have very good support amongst the law amongst the broader
ecosystem where people are so So then that so that's that's the
framework that we're that we're working with. So, so when, when
Albie and other custodial providers like LM pay started to
have trouble, it started to back off because of the regulations.
It left us in an environment where we have where we're
requiring keys and but very few lightning providers support it.
So we had to wait like so. It's obvious that we have to switch
them symptom things up. The my dogs freaking out, I can tell
ya, because obviously, we have switched some things some some
things have been change. Change the requirements here. So what
what we do
Adam Curry: when we need to go just talk to the dog? We can
wait, I know how distracting that is.
Dave Jones: Here's a bad joke. Shut up.
Adam Curry: Go. The dog understands English. Yeah, yeah.
I can stop.
Dave Jones: Now it's fine. I'm just like, a mute myself and
hollering at him is proving to be highly, very effective.
Adam Curry: Yes,
Dave Jones: yeah. Let's see. So. So that's where it so that's
where we're at. So what we what we were talking about was, in
order to stay to like fit better with, with the current lightning
ecosystem, meaning custodial world, we need to read we need
to emphasize Bolt 11 We need to sort of move away from a Kison
centric right world and go and start going towards the bolt 11.
Now that's. So here, here, let me lay another thing on top of
this. Bolt 11 is supported primarily, now through what's
called a lightning address, and ln URL. That is an HTML layer of
HTTP calls that are put on top of a lightning node, so that you
can ask the over acing and ask over HTTP for
Adam Curry: the proof for the for the for the payment invoice
basically for
Dave Jones: an invoice yet for an invoice, and then it'll give
you one back dynamically, and then you can pay it. It tries to
get around this idea of having to have the payee participate in
the transaction, right? It's just automating it all. Yes.
Automating the generation of the receivers, invoice, create
Adam Curry: user, create an invoice for X amount of sites,
and then send me the details. Right.
Dave Jones: So Ellen URL is, is the sort of standardized way to
do this thing. We, in talking to Oscar, what we have figured out
is that we need a CIO and let me finish by saying Ellen URL is
Bolt 11 centric. That's all it concerns itself with we need a
way to support multiple payment types. So keys and bolt 11 and
eventually Bolt 12
I know you're
Adam Curry: with us stay with us. Drink Drink, everybody.
Dave Jones: Don't CrowdStrike me bro. So we need a way to support
both keys and both 11 and bold 12. Because key sins exists
already in that should be a thing anything this should be
backwards compatible. But we want to not also just flip from
one thing to another and lock herself into Bolt 11 Because
Bolt 12 is also coming in potentially other things. Cash
you maybe down the line who fatty mints, oh, all these
different things. So first, so here's what we're doing. And
I've already made the initial changes to the documentation.
There will be a new type on the value recipient tag. Currently,
the all the value recipient tags contain the type node. So that's
just it's expecting to have a node type in the value recipient
and the address type attribute is going to be the public key of
the node that's receiving the payment. What we've done is
created a new type called ln address This ln address will
resolve to an to a will dot well known URL that points to an
what's called an options file. So adam@curry.com will read Will
if a if you put that so if you have a value recipient with type
equals ln address and address equal adam@curry.com, the paying
application will resolve adam@curry.com to a to
curry.com/dot well known slash lightning slash options. That
file will be a JSON document that has potentially three
different payment methods doesn't have a can have up to
three different payment methods. Keys end with which would be the
traditional address, custom key custom value, an Ellen URL, an
Ellen URL, specification, or block where you can generate a
bolt 11 address at both Lebanon voice and in the future a bowl
12
Adam Curry: option if at any point you feel dizzy on the
podcasting, 2.0, right, just look at the floor and it will
all go away.
Dave Jones: Okay, so Eric peepee asked a question. He says does
node does the type of node does the type equals node mean key
sand? Originally, it did not mean that in and of itself, but
now it will fall. So if you look at the if you look at the
structure of a value blog, you can go and check one out on the
podcast namespace documentation. In the there's a value if you go
into the if you go into the namespace repo and go to the
value folder, there's a document called Value dot end that's got
loads of examples in there. So if you look through one of those
examples, you'll see the the podcast colon value tag in it'll
have a method equals key send type equals lightning method
equals key send. And then the value recipients inside those
will say type equals node in address equals the pub key of
your lightning node. That was the original structure you're
gonna say okay, all these addresses are going to be key
send addresses. This is important. I hope people have
stuck with me here because type equals excuse me method equals
keys and that attribute is going to be removed. I don't see
seeing as how everything has been kissin from the very
beginning. I don't think that anybody has code that depends on
the on the presence of method equals keys and in the value
block tag. If anybody does, you need to tell me.
Adam Curry: Let me just check. I don't think I don't think I have
done in ours.
Dave Jones: You got nothing in your code. Okay,
Adam Curry: I'm gonna check. No, if you type type equals node is
all I have.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so if you in your podcast colon, if you
public in your podcast colon value, blog, if you have method
equals key sin is not going to hurt anything.
Adam Curry: But if I don't know I do have method equals key
send. Okay,
Dave Jones: that's fine if you put that in there as a producer
of a feed, but if you're consuming feeds I don't think
anybody ever paid attention to that attribute because there was
only one value it ever was always Easton I
Adam Curry: feel like I did unnecessary work now.
Dave Jones: You wasted that wasted bandwidth. You wait you
wasted like 10 bytes of bandwidth
Adam Curry: Yeah, type equals lightning method equals key
send.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so there was always only just one method
that's all it ever was right? Key sin so I seriously doubt
anybody has code that's going to break if value blocks start
coming into existence that don't have the method attribute right.
So that method attribute is going away because the method
now needs to be specified in the options file. Ah, okay. So what
is going to be is the value block is going to say type
equals lightning, and then the value recipient tag, are going
to have a ln Andrew ln address as a type as an available type.
Adam Curry: So all I'll really have to add to my setup as a as
a sovereign. Is this Ellen? Ellen address? The end And I
could I guess I could set it up@curry.com and slash. So the
so the HTTP requests will come in as Get me the page out of
mccurry.com.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So,
Adam Curry: I mean, it's confusing for people who are
used to this as email only, you know, job. This is just a mind
bender. That's all this.
Dave Jones: This makes more sense. This makes more sense as
you think about the other part of this, which is if I felt like
a monologue in here, but it's kind of like almost necessary.
The other the other side of, well, let me let me finish this
up. Let's
Adam Curry: call this a little Liqui.
Dave Jones: This soliloquy, soliloquy. Let me see if I'm
finished. Yeah, let me finish this take up. Okay. So the, so
that's what the new thing is going to be it's going to be
you're going to have a type of a type of node or you're going to
have a type of Ellen address, Ellen address will resolve to
the options file, which will then make available the the
different options for receiving a payment,
Adam Curry: which which could be two or three. Yeah, okay. It
Dave Jones: could be multiple. Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. So
Adam Curry: I can still keep my keys and for clients that are
sending keys and payments to me and I can add my bolt 11 four
bolt 11 apps.
Dave Jones: Right, I'm going to feature bold 12 So the other
part of this is the actual Nashville custodian API service
that apps would use and here is where like it okay so you've
always had to wallets to deal with the vault you're in this is
this is kind of this is going to simplify that Oh, yeah. It's
going to remove one Yeah, so what you've always had to do is
I've had an you know, like okay, let's say I get a great I
grabbed cast ematic download cast ematic cast, thematic says,
Hey, podcasting 2.0 podcast supports value for value. It's
such a friendly app. Do you want to fire up a wallet and support
the show? You say Yeah, sure. I'd love to do that. Behind the
scenes is firing is creating an ABI wallet. All right now you
got now be wallet. Your lb wall is linked to cast thematic is
not helpful because you have zero sets in it right? In order
to get swept away.
Adam Curry: Unless you're true fans, because true fans is the
best. It gives you 5000 SATs right off the bat.
Dave Jones: Right? Yes. I stand corrected. And anybody that
other than true fans. You will have no SATs. So now you gotta
go get some SAT. So what do you gotta do? You gotta go get a
cash app account. You gotta go get a strike account. Moon pay,
you know, in it, some of the one of these other turns to
Adam Curry: the right, turn to the left cough. Okay, yeah. And
Dave Jones: you gotta go get some set somewhere through an
exchange. And then you can send those sets over to your new
shiny Alby wallet, this connected cast thematic. So
you've got it, you've always had to have two wallets. Now, what
what striker has done is they've got a very good OAuth API. So
what can happen now is that you apps can integrate directly with
striker hopefully Cash App and others in the future. That will,
you know, you can an app can choose to use the strike API to
do essentially the essentially the same thing that Al B
provides, but straight into a regulated a financial regulation
compliant wallet. And then your your sin now now striker only
supports Bolt 11 payments, doesn't support keys and, and
not yet, Bolt 12. So that's why we're saying talking about the
Embree emphasizing a bolt 11 going forward is that what you
can have is a is your is your podcast apps tie in through the
OAuth API to strike on the back end as their wallet and then
after and then once they have the once they have the
connection there. They can have the they don't have to have this
to Wallet song and dance, you can just pay directly through
both 11 payments from your strike back wallet to the
podcaster. And vice versa, you can you as the podcaster can
just have a strike, well, you can just sign up for strike. And
you get as part of that you get a lightning address, you can
just put that lightning address directly into your into your
feed value recipient tag and start receiving payments because
everything's Bolt 11. Now, the one thing this requires is bolt,
bolt 11 Since it's not as fast and efficient as keys, and it is
going to require it for per streaming payments, there's
going to need to be like badass. Yeah, because what sending a
payment once per minute, is kind of a big hit, especially when
you have multiple recipients in the value blog. Because you may
you know, you had time to send 567 Or if you're blueberry 24
payments. You know, every minute, that's a big deal, I
Adam Curry: think. No, I know that podcast guru already does
that they already batch every five minutes.
Dave Jones: And so does fountain. Yeah. has always done
that. Okay. Yeah, makes sense. So I think I mean, I think it
doesn't sound like too big of a lift to me. You're gonna you
know, you just, it's it's an emphasis on both 11 over key
send. And then the lightning address just means you're,
you're great. You're going to be doing here we get an Ellen URL
addresses, excuse me, Ellen URL invoice. Okay,
Adam Curry: a couple of questions. Good job, the T O V
record data. So all of the payment information, is that
able to be sent along with these bolts 11 invoice payments?
Dave Jones: That is an unknown? I do not know. And I'll just be
honest with you, I have no idea yet. Okay. And if I hope, I hope
we can figure out, I hope we can figure out a proper way to do
out of band confirmations. Because when
Adam Curry: I when I sent my test I sent from strike I sent
$1 to my breeze wallet knowing that both they both do this
stuff. And I just send it to whatever Adam See 1999 breeze.io
This is one of those. And I put a note in there and the note was
received on the other side. So they're doing something they
both know that hey, here's a note so that there's a note
adding capability that is known.
Dave Jones: And we might just need to we might we might be
able to like ENCODE encode the JSON into the note field
somehow? I'm not not sure. Okay. I just don't know yet. We need
I'm looking forward to Oscar's demo app, where we can all see
how this is going to work in a clearer way. So that if we just,
you know, then we can figure out okay, do we just need to put a
JSON some JSON data in the memo field, which is kind of ugly,
but I just don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's not. It would
not be horrible to send, like some out of out of band. Data.
But But if the when you have a confirmation, like the thing
about bolts 11 It's a it's a payment confirmation is part of
the bride. So you don't you you could include that data in
there. And it is not as bad as keys and which is just sort of
like, you know, wild west.
Adam Curry: Open up here I come. Exactly,
Dave Jones: exactly. By casting 2.5 Yeah, this is what it feels
like. Yeah. But I mean, what I'm really grateful that Oscar is
willing to put into a demo app because I think that's really
what people need to see. Because this is what way I described it
on on the on the mastodon was, this is a subtle and not subtle
change at the same time. Because it it's not that different than
what we're already doing.
Adam Curry: 640 bytes is what I'm seeing 640 characters max
for the Yes.
Dave Jones: It's a little bit small. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.
We're just gonna have to figure that part out.
Adam Curry: Okay. So, well, this is good and the part that I
really like about it, but we do have to admit, I think we've got
all the people who understand Bitcoin, I think they're all
pretty much in in the pocket. Now we need to start onboarding
quote unquote, normies. I don't like that term. But what I like
a lot about the strike experience is I didn't even put
a card in I just had a strike account. And I just Send some
sets to it. And it told me how much was in there in dollars.
And I could just send that around. So I didn't even have to
onboard really? Yeah. But you can I think they actually take a
bank card. So it doesn't have to be a credit card but a bank card
or you can connect it through a debit card, the debit card, or
you can connect it through some some horrible middleware to your
to your lab to plan it. I think literally plaid to your to your
bank account. And then you just kind of good to go. And it's in
Fiat denomination, that's the strike app. You know, you can
switch it around, but the default is dollars, or euros or
whatever your dollar redos, whatever you use your local,
your local fiat currency. I know that's going to simplify it for
a lot of people, because I've helped onboard a lot of people.
And I love church people. Because they're typically a
little bit older, a little bit less sophisticated. Not all of
them, but the ones who listen to my shows. And they'll come up to
me in church like, hey, you know, holding up the app. And as
I explain this, how do I get this? What are the sets? And you
know, if I can just say, hey, just open this account here. And
you connect this to your, to the app you're using, and you're
good to go? And here's dollars Oh man, it's gonna simplify so
much.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think that's what that's, it's, we need to
keep that in mind. What what's the goal here? The goal is that
you that you save somebody says, How do I get? We can
Adam Curry: also just not have to take people you don't have to
orange pill someone? Yes, on both ends on both ends. Because
for musicians, I really look at the musicians as with all
respect, you know, dead like hmm, most of them are just, you
know, they just want to put their music up somewhere and
like, how do I get the money and said, Okay, here's my strike,
here's my strike wallet, okay, I see money coming in, I got
$5 $10 $50 That's very understandable to people. And
it's the same step to get it from your paypal or your Venmo
into your bank account, etc. Or to use it just as money and pay
other people with it. And I think that obfuscation although
not what a lot of the Bitcoin people want, I think is
incredibly important for podcasting.
Dave Jones: I think so too. Yeah, yeah, that's it if you
have yet I did would be to because because if you been
supporting, supporting these custodial wallets in no way
means you can be sovereign. You can still I mean, you can
completely you can be sovereign. You want to have options you
want to people a, do you want to run your own node? Be a go for
it. Yes. That we that, that that's fully supported? Do you
want to just have a strike account and have that or a cash
app account? I have that work to the as your wallet? Yes, fully
support like, you just want to remove as many barriers as
possible and lips so that people can dial up and down their their
risk and their sovereignty based on their own preference. Without
having and without having to like you know, hey, you know,
Grandma wants to send me some money you know, okay, go by
mastering the Lightning Network first and read that. Read the
first six chapters then let's talk.
Adam Curry: Exactly, yeah, just I mean, yes, we used to say
jeans mom, but she passed away. So it's not appropriate anymore.
To say jeans mom can understand it. But that is the idea. Yeah.
Stacy, Stacy, Stacy's mom, Stacy's mom, Stacy's mom. So I'm
very excited about this. I do want to add a couple things to
this to remind everybody to look at value for value dot info,
value number four value dot info, because there is creeping
in. I just have to say that it was actually Matt from Matt
Madeira, who did a great like 10 minute video on this saying your
value for value can be time talent, treasure, it's a concept
is still requires asking that we've kind of we're starting I'm
seeing some slippage into what we're just replacing buying
something with micropayments it's not micro payments, it's
not streaming payments. It's a it's something you ask people to
do to support you. It's not an automatic thing that is not like
a set amount. In fact, that's the opposite. The streaming part
just became really nice because it's literally you're you're
playing some you're playing and then you're paying but boosting
I think is equally as important. And, you know, let's not get
confused that this is a replacement for 99 cents song,
you know, the song should still be worth $99 to you over it's
$99.
Dave Jones: Yeah, just need to put that out there in the
streaming payment the like, per minute payments. And that'll say
this, I think it's a good idea. So I guess it wouldn't, it
wouldn't hurt, it wouldn't hurt me too bad if, if the streaming
payments just didn't even exist, I'm in
Adam Curry: agreement with you. Now, I'd like it personally,
because I know that so for instance, I do, you know, 200
SATs for any, for any podcasts that I really enjoy, and listen
to regularly, up to 200 sets per minute streaming. So I know at
the end of that show, I've given them some real value. And along
the way, if I, if there's something I like, or I want to
provide some feedback, I'll boost with typically 10,000 sets
in me. And that's, that's pretty nice, you know, for for one
listener, so, but it really does require, and the only people who
can explain this, by the way, and this is another thing, value
for value cannot be explained properly, or at least to an
extent by your app, it has to be the podcasters pot. And that's
why value for value dot info, gives you some examples and how
to do it. Dave Jackson, and Daniel J. Lewis, they you know,
they've done episodes on this, of course, chyron has done an
entire series, it's critical that that that mentality stays
in, in there, because you can still do value for value with
just with just someone sending you some pay pals. You know, in
fact, you're selling yourself short at this point, because not
everybody is going to be on this system is not a replacement,
it's, it was always a, like the index itself initially was, hey,
we you're not gonna get D platformed. Over here. And
here's a way for your money not to get the platform to see, you
know, the poor YouTube guys who are living off of their YouTube
ads. And all of a sudden YouTube said, Ah, you know what, you
can't have anything about ammo or guns, and they had ammo and
guns podcast, I say podcasts in air quotes, a YouTube. So that
that was always the idea. So, you know, we have a ways to go
before this replaces everything else. And it's still going to be
the podcasters who have to learn how to ask for people to support
them in this manner.
Dave Jones: Eric, Eric said in the boardroom, he said, I think
I think streaming stats are extremely important that I do to
Eric, let me let me just be a little more clear. I realized
that wasn't that wasn't clear enough. What a mean, is that I
wouldn't, is that the concept of sending a payment every single
minute. That's what I'm not as tied to is I used to like, going
Adam Curry: out with my homie five, five minutes or whatever
is what you're saying? Yeah,
Dave Jones: I just want to know, like, my app could just
periodically as I'm listening, even after I'm listening, after
I'm finished, he could just say, Hey, you listened to Lou, he
could do this, like three times a day, he could say, you listen
to 20 minutes of that show here. I'm just gonna go and send those
payments on your behalf. It's just the concept of the the
like, per minute streaming. I don't know if that is what I'm
at the point now, where if that's what's holding us up? It
shows the per minute. Yeah, right. I think we need to and,
Adam Curry: and this, along the same lines, what I thought I
think what true fans has done is interesting, where I can set my,
my true fans app and I can say, whenever a new episode drops
from these guys, I want to send them a payment even if I'm not
listening. That's a perfectly valid value for value. Exchange.
Dave Jones: I think I think we don't necessarily, we don't we
don't think about the listener side of the V for V mindset as
much as we do the podcaster side, correct. So the the pipe,
the podcaster side has flipped been fleshed out so well by you
over the years to say okay, here's here's the podcasters
investment into V for V. Here's what that looks like. There is a
mental thing that happens and the reason I'm bringing this up
is because I saw the chat. So when he said was streaming I
don't have to remember to boost and I do do that, too. So I
found out that what I've noticed in myself, and I think this
probably is true for a lot of people is that on the listener
side, you start out when you're when you begin to, when you
begin to think in terms of V for V. Meaning that you know that
it's your support. That is the reason this podcast is able to
continue. Yeah. When you start to think about it that way,
initially, you're, you're really excited about having about
boosting and sending a message, to be deemed it to be part of
the show and these kinds of things. But eventually, that
sort of fades, and you just want to send the show money
consistently. Yeah, your lesson, you're less enamored with
wanting to be part of the show than just making sure the show
continues to be funded. And that's what I that's what where
I've fallen, I don't boost nearly as much as I used to. But
I just want to make sure that when I do listen, that money is
being sent, because I don't want to, I don't want to take without
giving. And
Adam Curry: along those lines, I mean, apps could do a lot with
reminding people or saying hey, you know, you've listened to the
show a couple of times you think about supporting it, or, you
know, there's all kinds of things just from the listener
perspective. Absolutely. But again, again, podcasters have to
teach their audiences. I mean, I have taught audiences to do the
craziest things. And they'll do it. And what I mean, is like,
it's my audience, it's my producers, it's my people. I
asked him, they'll do something. It's that simple.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. That mean, because so if you take,
Adam Curry: like, what I mean, what I'm saying, but this comes
back to I was saying earlier, it's not, we're not moving into
a world where everyone pays for the content with micro payments,
it's just not going to happen. For us, that's not how the world
operates, people are not going to get that mindset, they're
going to be reminded by the content producers, that they
need to support them. And here's an easy way.
Dave Jones: If and also, we I think we need to just focus on
if we can, you know, the free is not that much is, it's really
not different than what we already do. Like this. It's not
like you have ed the entire world out here operating one
way, and then you have V for v this operating some other some
different way, correct. Like when you go to a restaurant, if
you if nobody ever tipped at a restaurant, if nobody ever gave
a tip, and everybody just paid what was on the on the on the
receipt, the restaurant would go out of business. That you you
can't the you had adding the tip to the bill, you consider the
bill to be from the from the restaurants point of view to be
basically zero. And then what you tip is the is the gravy on
top that makes that thing continue to exist. So if we take
if we just modify that a little bit and say, you know, if you
don't support the show is not going to exist. Speaking
Adam Curry: of which, it's been 45 minutes since anyone boosted
anything. Just
Dave Jones: Yeah. Your Europe they don't tip. Well. In the US
though. If you don't if you don't tip you don't have any
employees
Adam Curry: that well. We don't say I don't like the tipping
example. I just don't like it. Because it puts it into a
tipping thing. Like you're already working for me. Somehow
you getting paid. And here's something extra, no, it's the
it's the pain. It's a value exchange. I'm just a heartless
about that.
Dave Jones: It is a value exchange. But the if you I'm
taking the restaurant out of the equation, and say and you know
the tip. If, if, if if there are no tips at the restaurant,
there's not going to be anybody working there. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I just devalues it. I don't work for tips. I work
for value. Thank you. So
Dave Jones: there's restaurants where the dish restaurants were
the people were the people working for tips make six
figures. I know.
Adam Curry: But it's it's different. It's just the minute
you'd call it tipping. People consider it tipping. It's a
small amount. And I've had $10,000 tips on no agenda, if
you want to call it that is that a tip? Was that someone who
really valued something over over two years time and said, I
need to give you some value back?
Dave Jones: I guess I was thinking about like, Sam had
said once before that, you know, the VA is fine, but we you know,
if you're running a service, you have fixed costs and that kind
of thing. And what I'm saying is it's not different. What
Adam Curry: I'm what I'm saying is what I'm saying is I've
experimented with this for 17 in yours, I know what works.
Calling it tipping does not work as well as value as a value for
value pitch. That's what I'm saying.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I'm not arguing against that. I was
talking about something different, like just the concept
of trying to make the concept that trying to find an analogy,
because because V four v is not different than then the rest of
the economy, it's a different, it's, nobody's the same, the
economics are the same, you're just doing it in a different
way.
Adam Curry: Well, here's, here's the difference when it comes to
what we're doing. For the first time in a podcast app
development history, the app developers are able to
participate in the value flow, that's what's significantly
different. It used to be you got a free app, and you're using it
for you know, you're creating this app, because you like
building apps, you could do remove the ads, and pay for it
or support the app. And now you can be a part of the actual
value flow. So this podcast and no agenda, podcast, app apps,
who, who are in that, in that value flow they get, they get
more than they would ever receive from from many other
avenues. So that's where it's a real difference is, you know,
we're supporting the infrastructure.
Dave Jones: Well, yep, busting my bag. That's a decent term.
Gluskin
Adam Curry: busking is yes, I agree, busing is fair.
Dave Jones: It's our archaic term that nobody knows what it
means anymore. Now,
Adam Curry: but like, I mean, I've always supported musicians,
I don't care how good or how bad. I mean, just because I come
from a musical background. And I'm in the airport, you got some
guy in the corner, I'm always gonna drop 20 bucks, always.
That's just that, just always do that. It's not a tip. It's like,
Thank you for the value you provide. Even if you suck, you
came out here. You're playing. This is your thing. Someone
loves us. Let's see how much chat F 7777 Mini stripe chatter
chatter. So
Dave Jones: I'm the same way if you're, if you're, if you're a,
if you're a guy, or a girl playing guitar and singing at a
little restaurant, even if you suck, I'm dropping, I'm dropping
at least 10 bucks in your drawer.
Adam Curry: Right. But let me let me just drop you some money
and just put it this way. If we said, hey, podcasts index is
here for tips. The machines would not be running at this
moment.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. But yes, I think I
get your I get it, I get it. And the fact the fact that the
podcast index servers do run when our expenses are almost
$1,000 A month means that even if you run a platform or service
value for value still works. Yeah. This like, you know,
that's the thing, just because just because you have fixed
costs doesn't mean that value value is not exactly, exactly.
Adam Curry: Now, if you want to get if you want to get VC money
and show a return on investment, I think it's going to be
difficult.
Dave Jones: Yeah, probably,
Adam Curry: probably, you know, movies of its, you know, some
people call it crowdfunding, you know, it's ongoing crowdfunding,
you can call it that, or you can call it that to
Dave Jones: the people, your business makes money, when the
people that care that want your product, or want when the when
the when your customer wants a product. And they see that they
need to return value in order for them to get it. Yeah, that's
universal. Yeah, it doesn't matter. That is just flat
economics. And everybody understands that. You don't get
something for free. But you know, value for value is not
giving stuff away. For nothing. It's because just as I've tried
to make this analogy before, if you're if you have products in a
store, and people come in, and they don't value the product
more than they value the cash in their wallet, they're just not
going to buy it. They're still seeing the shirt, they're
evaluating it. If you're doing a podcast, they will get to hear
it, they get to evaluate it. And they get to decide whether or
not as valuable to them and allow them transaction is just
the same. Allow
Adam Curry: me to add a few elements here. It is a
programming format that does need certain elements. It needs
an Ask and it needs the feedback loop. That's why booster grants
became super important because somewhere you need to thank at
least some some portion of the people who are sending you value
back that feedback loop and is the thank you segment. That mean
go look at At GoFundMe, you go to go fund, you're like, Oh,
hey, I've got this thing going on, I need some, I need some
support. Here's my story. And then underneath that you see a
whole list of names and how much they donated. It's aspirational
and inspirational. At the same time. The people will show up
anonymous, like, I don't need to attach my name, but they do have
a message and they do have an amount. And you know, you pretty
quickly, you'll see people giving 100 bucks, oh, everyone's
gonna 100 bucks, I'm gonna give 100 bucks, or 50 bucks, or
here's all that I can afford. Now, here's a little secret. I
probably mentioned it before. The afternoon slash evening
before every no agenda show. Jhansi Dvorak sends out a
newsletter. And the newsletter is often correctly identified by
people as you're just begging for money, correct? It 40% of
our value for value comes in before we've even started the
next show the next day, because people were reminded, and the
end the reminders clear, they says it right at the top and
right at the bottom. Without your support, no agenda can not
survive as a reminder, and then people also Oh, yeah, that's
right. If I do it now, then they'll also read my message
tomorrow or they'll say happy birthday to my wife or whatever
it is. And yeah, there's a drop off in those segments, but it's
only 30 35%. And of course, we try to make it entertaining. So
it's a it's a critical part of how the value for value model
works. You can't just say oh yeah, we're value for value get
the found nap. It's not going to work for you.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, it's not it's not a it's not a technology
that you plug in. Exactly.
Adam Curry: Should we take a little breather with some new
music?
Dave Jones: Oh yeah. I gotta go the bathroom so it's perfect
time
Adam Curry: so I'm I'm looking through the split kit and and
I'm looking at all the new music that's coming out and lo and
behold a brand new dorsals track everybody couldn't get any
better on this Friday here's possible on 2.0 She's
Unknown: back she I can see she said you're okay well you and
you always knows just want to say she's the straight line and
you just proved it
she's
She she's dead so I can fly the sky. She's as she always knows
just one.
When I was on my back out
everyone have fans
Adam Curry: love me some doorbells in the afternoon
everybody.
Dave Jones: That's a good that's a good team guys. So good. So
good. Last thing they do is good. So
Adam Curry: on that note, we have the big Bitcoin Conference.
Oops, coming up on his next week I guess I will be there in
Nashville. Yes. So this is what I wanted to discuss. Now the the
days were already complicated for me because it's Thursday,
Friday, Saturday. My, my stepdaughter is has been with us
for two weeks waiting for an operation date for her torn
meniscus and ACL, which is happening on the 23rd. And I
kind of have to be here to help out. So I do have a great
excuse. However, of course, we had the big bands at Bitcoin
taking place which the Costello's are organizing, which
is gonna be very exciting. And I had a thought, and I'm going to
announce it here. Um, I hope it'll be okay with the
Costello's and I've already tested out the rig and
everything I'm thinking, why don't I do alive, boosted grand
ball with video, breaking my cardinal rule? Hey, now with
video because I have it set up so I can have the camera, the
camera can switch down to the to the mixer, which is kind of
cool. With a screencast at the same time, so you can see what
I'm doing on the screen and have the booths coming in at the same
time. Wow. Yeah, yeah. So I figured I'd just do a live one.
I don't know what camera shot yet. Well, basically a two
camera shot. I don't have a third camera, it'll be a two
camera shot with one one that will move back and forth between
me. And, and and the mixer. So I'll just hit that manually. So
everybody can see kind of how it works. And we'll just be
blasting out some tunes there. Because I figured there's no
real difference between sitting there or doing it here that I'm
just not there. And the question is, do you want to do the board
meeting? While you're there as well, which you could just do
from the hotel room, I guess. Do you want to Are you are you
staying overnight just going up for the day?
Dave Jones: No, so here's my schedule is I'm going to I'm
going to head to Nashville. Right after work on Thursday. So
that's the 25th. So I'm going to head I'm going to leave right at
five o'clock. from Birmingham. It takes about two hours to get
to Nashville from here. And so I'm staying, Karen, Karen down
from mere mortals. He's coming. He's flying in from Brazil to
cool. Yeah. And so we're going to meet up and share an Airbnb
for Thursday night and Friday night and I'm going to drive
back to Birmingham on Saturday. So do you want me there Thursday
night and Friday night? Do
Adam Curry: you want to do the board meeting Friday as regular?
Yeah. Okay. And you'll just bring your gear and just plug it
in? Yeah,
Dave Jones: I'm bringing my gear plant board meeting as usual.
I'll just do it from the Airbnb. Excellent.
Adam Curry: And because I mean, that's pretty boring. I mean, I
don't think we should be streaming that it's like, who
wants to see these dudes. But, so I guess I'm looking for some
help here.
Dave Jones: So what what time, we'll see, I will do the board
doomed. I'm not I'm not going to the conference. By the way. I
don't have tickets. I don't care anything about going to the
conferences. So I'm just basically there to meet up with
people and hang out and just have fun. I'm glad you can make
it. So the 28th So you got this thing you're doing with the live
booster Grand Ball? Is that gonna be the 25th or the sixth?
Adam Curry: It has to be on the 26th it could be on that side.
It can do the Saturday too. So I'm looking forward looking to
the Costello's to tell me what they need. And then of course my
my number one question is and this is where blueberry or
Spencer anybody can help me out what I mean I have stream yard.
I just need to know where to point it. I mean, obviously I
can output to YouTube. That's how I tested it that works fine.
So I need to know where to point my my stream. And then I guess I
need to incorporate that into a feed or I mean can I just move
that put it all into booster ground balls feed? I need a
little help there because I've never done this with video.
Dave Jones: Okay. Yeah, so if you're gonna do that oh, so
there's the seed bands that Bitcoin is the 25th is every day
right? 26 and 27? I think so. Yeah. Okay, so I hope you do if
you don't on the 27th I'm not. If it's at night, I'm not going
to be in I'll already be gone from Nashville.
Adam Curry: What's the 27th is that Saturday? That's Saturday.
No, I'd hope I can do it during the day, I mean, I don't know,
but I'll leave it open to them. Because obviously, they they're
gonna I know they're gonna have screens so it'll be on the
screen and the whole point of me is promoting it promoting what's
going on. I mean, I've done these and, and I've done stuff
where there's a live audience and I'm just hitting a booth so
I know how to how to interact and how to make that happen.
admit there's even extra stuff we can do. You know, also I'd
like some help from the Costello's on songs song choice
for the bands that are there, you know, that's kind of the
stuff you want to do. So I'm open to it but um, so I'm just
saying I will make myself available all day Friday, all
day Saturday, whatever is needed for me to set it up. Tell me how
long you want it. And I'm happy to do it.
Dave Jones: Looks like it looks like you're getting some advice
in the boardroom. And the the 26th is my my sort of loose very
loose agenda is 20 Thursday the 25th I plan to go to the bands
of Bitcoin thing one I think it might be the 26th I'm going to
have to check I want to go to the V wavelengths having
something at the vinyl lounge in Nashville I want to go to that
and then if the if I'm still if then I'm basically gonna go to
the band's with Bitcoin every time I can and then the vinyl
lounge and then the board and then the board meeting on the
26th on Friday Okay, in any time around anytime Other than that,
um, you know if anybody wants to hang out me just hit me up and
we'll and we'll hang out I'll just be you know, be me and Kira
and and then I know I'm going to meet up with Oscar and gas from
fountain and things like that. So let's, let's all just,
anybody can find me. Let's all meet up. Excellent.
Adam Curry: And maybe, well, you can probably use podcasts index
out social to coordinate stuff because everyone seems to have
an account there. So we can just, you know, say hey, I'm
over here. I'm doing this right now.
Dave Jones: Eric said the vinyl lounge thing is the 25th I guess
I'll go to that the first 25th and go to the bands of Bitcoin
on the 26th Okay, cool.
Adam Curry: Let's see. I don't I mean, do you have anything on
your on your list for today?
Dave Jones: I mean, I've got a I've got a big list. He's
Adam Curry: got a big list and he's mad you know, I really
missed our Fridays. You know, I know you had a good time. Can
you integrate with your family?
Dave Jones: Yeah. That's awesome. That that so so we got
to Yosemite so we do getting out there the first few days were
interesting. So we flew out on American American landed from
Birmingham to Dallas Fort Worth. So we landed in Dallas with 20
minutes to make it to our next flight. And because of lightning
they sat on the runway for 30 minutes so we missed our
connecting flight. So they had to reschedule us for we had
ended up five hour layover.
Adam Curry: What did you do? Did you play games? You got
something to eat? Of course, we all do that? Yeah. Vape in the
bathroom? Oh, I'm sorry. You know, vaping allows I'd be in
the 00 vaping where you you walk out and you inhale and then you
just let it sit in your lungs for like a minute and then
nothing comes out as great. I
Dave Jones: did not do that. The so most of the time, and most of
the time spent was trying to figure out okay, this this
because what we did was we flew into Fresno and we stayed one
night in Mariposa, which is real near to Yosemite. We stayed
where we had one night, like stay at an inn in Mariposa. So
I'm caught with vibrating
Adam Curry: beds and shaped
Dave Jones: my heart and the big, big hot tubs.
Adam Curry: It smells kind of weird.
Dave Jones: Don't don't bring the black light. Okay. So we I
was I called them I'm like, Hey, we're gonna be late late check
in and they were like, oh, have you not been reading the news?
I'm like, what? They're like there's a big wildfire here. I
was like, Oh crap. So the half of Mariposa was evacuated. Oh,
wow. Oh no. The entrance to Yosemite from this from the west
side was closed because of the wildfire and all this I'm like,
Oh crap. So it ended up we got in and they were able to get the
fire under control. So we got in we stayed. Then we got to our
Airbnb the next day in Oakhurst, which is just south of this
empty. We get to that. The first night we were there. The
plumbing backs up and there's like sewage coming into the
toilet you know Don't flush the toilet Ah, man. So they ended up
refunding part of our stay and they got a plumber out there the
next day and fixed it. It was it was once the first three days of
it were over the rest was okay. The rest was great. And your
expectations are super low. Yeah, like and
Adam Curry: thank you people. Yes do okay. Well, thank you all
for boosting very nice. We have anonymous podcast guru user. I
see that person a lot with 2112 Consider broadcasting I know
agenda tube supports live splits and generates the feed for you.
Why yes, that I could do that. But I want to use the booster
gram ball feed and I see there's already some some good advice
coming through. 777 from Macintosh and Macintosh
Macintosh actually boosted twice 2100 and 777 to get the heart
playing. Can we organize a PC 2.0 meetup please, at the
Bitcoin Conference? Well, sounds like something will happen.
It'll probably be pretty organic, but it sounds like
something will happen. I think it will evolve. Call McCormick
row six or eight eggplant emojis. Thank you Eric PDP 1111
V four v is the only way I can build reputation along side
financial gain and fair market every door to send talent and
treasure needs to be open to the listener. As a podcaster I think
there's more to work on showing the system works more so than
pitching Bitcoin to the listener. I've been hyper
focused on pushing fountain is V for V about having more money
apps available or doing more to build value between me and the
audience. I think it's the relationship between you in the
audience. And then however they want to send value is fine. Time
talent treasure can be all kinds of things having someone build
your website is worth a lot of money. 808 from blueberry boo
boost if you're producing concerts a great way to recap is
to go back at a later date and read through every boost as its
own episode. I did that for Aynsley slash just loud and 12
rods disco ball show and we just published the one for the
satellite skirmish yes is a great idea. It's a great way
it's like you know we watch the chosen
Unknown: the Dallas who's the show? Yeah,
Adam Curry: it's it's the Jesus series. You haven't watched the
chosen? I don't think so. What kind of freak Are you?
Dave Jones: Substandard whenever daily so the chosen
Adam Curry: they're now on Season Four it started season
one and and I think they actually the this the original
script or you know was at a Hollywood studio in Hollywood
didn't want to produce it like now we want to do on a Jesus
stuff. And it's it's literally the story of Jesus but it's done
in a very modern way. You know, with just it's not like a hokey
you know, low budget thing because what they did it they
crowdfunded it. And at the end of the season, there's 15
minutes of credits on the screen, and oh, for all the
crowd for all the crowdfunding. Yes. And in season two. They
actually invited people above a certain level who crowdfunded
and they were extras.
Dave Jones: Oh, that's that's a great so a
Adam Curry: lot of people like there's no there's you see those
5000 people getting love getting loaves of bread and fish. Well,
look, there's me and my kids.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's great. And it's
Adam Curry: been very successful. Very successful. Oh,
I
Dave Jones: need to watch that. Yeah. Oh,
Adam Curry: you remember what you gave me for Christmas? Yeah,
the visual Bible. So it's like that only it's it's only about
Jesus and and it's the production values are very high.
So
Dave Jones: it's 16 by nine instead of four by three VHS.
Adam Curry: Yeah, amongst other things. We got many striper
booths from Sam Sethi true fans 7777 Next week we launched true
fans ball with one click account setup with wallet we did this
for one click wallet top up and we think we've done it again
with wallets so there's Sam Sam is thinking like the thinking
about the listener. Hard Hat 7777 Remember to boost Yes,
thank you once told Kyle 777 Hey, David Adam, I'm still not
sure how this V for V alchemy works. But it sure is fun to run
full speed with these systems every Friday. Have a great
weekend. Thank you. You have a great weekend. 7777 from chat F
just says boost 5000 from DS laughs This boost is worth $3.33
As of this moment, love the podcasting 2.0 Project ecosystem
and all the users interaction as do we are you seeing bariga 3333
Here's more value exchange. Thank you. Champ comes in with
12,621 and says here's your tip. But the day Thank you. RG black
316 1111 Here's a boost to help break up the silence go
podcasting. Se Brooklyn Hill is broken. That's right see
Brooklyn. One 112 3333 Good luck. And let me see we have a
there's more here RG black 316. Again, with 1000 SATs corporate
Windows environments definitely should have nightly shutdowns in
place even if by automation via group policy. Oh,
Dave Jones: there's something Dave. Yeah. Or or in the past
I've also set up things that will shock collars. The shock.
Yes. thing oh, I've also set up automated notices where it says,
you know, everybody if your machine is on at three o'clock
in the morning, you get a pop up the next day that says, hey, you
left your machine if you do it again. Shut down.
Adam Curry: I like shock collars better. Meaty tone wrecker?
3333. Boosting Dave sage advice of shut off of the machines when
leaving the office. Macintosh 777 Thank you. No boost no Dred
Scott 7777. He sent us a test boost. Great. And he sent us a
pre shot boost. Got the bad signal via pod verse 2345. And I
think that is Wait, no, I have no, that's probably on your
list. Blueberry came in 14 hours ago. So why don't you take it
from there, Dave? Yeah, I
Dave Jones: got Eva. I'm starting out with some papers
and I got Buzzsprout for 1000 bucks. With
Adam Curry: blades on him. Paul. Thank you, brothers. Thank you
so much. We appreciate it. Yeah, keeping us rollin. There's a
month right there.
Dave Jones: Thank you both. I appreciate that. And right
behind them Oscar marry $200.
Adam Curry: I'm gonna hate him to hold on a second. Shot call
out 20 blades on him, Paul. Very nice. Thank you.
Dave Jones: Did you Eric said his boost from Alby hub didn't
go through.
Adam Curry: Eric VP?
Dave Jones: I don't see I don't know if I saw them in the
Adam Curry: in when did he send it recently boost by?
Dave Jones: I don't know. Maybe during the show? No. Mercy. Very
fun in a minute. Oh, we got a ROB policeman. No note they sent
us 24 $25
Adam Curry: This sounds like someone new. I haven't heard of
yeah, I've never
Dave Jones: heard that name before.
Adam Curry: defragmented. Brother. Thank you. Good call.
Dave Jones: Good call. See Brooklyn. 112 gave us $20 Cisco
podcasting.
Adam Curry: Thank you, ma'am.
Dave Jones: Thank you see Brooklyn. Appreciate that. See,
we got some booths. Mr. Graham's
Adam Curry: people didn't really booths much while while we were
gone. We didn't deserve it. There's no value. We're no
valuate Oh, man, we were laid off. We are valueless. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Let's see. Let me make sure that I've got Yes
Okay, so I'm gonna have to do this a little differently
because comments from Blogger boosted long time ago. Okay,
here we go. Yeah, anonymous. Podcast guru user is all over
the place. Oh, Christian is unstoppable. May is amazing song
20 to 22 sets. Thank you.
Unknown: Thank you. See.
Dave Jones: Resort. This isn't working right. Okay, newest
first. There we go. Hey, I got 17 776 through party through
boosts. CLI says it has been set into motion. Coming soon. A
boost. A boost double Mall. It'd be working with a new site
headed up by a consignment shop and help turn the area into live
streaming venues for live music comedians and artists. Hmm, that
sounds cool. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Interesting. Boost.
Dave Jones: Double boost double Mall. Okay.
Adam Curry: Good.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you're you're crazy.
Adam Curry: Weary as always.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Todd from Northern Virginia 22 to 22 nice
boost. He says sets on sale go podcast. I must have bought the
dip.
Adam Curry: Yeah, definitely. It's been a roller
Dave Jones: coaster. The last couple of months has been nuts.
Andrew grommet Hey, Andrew 2222 He's boosting the tune. He says
boost
Adam Curry: No, I can do that for you. Almost I can't where's
my
Dave Jones: wherever at? There we go. Oh, he's got the reply
address reply key. Yeah, he's got everything in here. As you
would expect, oh, Karen from mere mortals. 1111. Sasha
Richards he says yep, we have strike in Australia for at least
a year. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Why is that only for at least a year? What's going
on? I'm gonna have
Dave Jones: it but have never used it for anything. The amount
of apps I have downloaded after hearing it on here and then
never used is pretty high. It happens. So Andrew coming in
again. 2222 says Greenlight is super cool, but yeah, it looks
like the fee payout from individual noncustodial wallets
does not justify the liquidity lockup. Yeah, I look forward to
checking out cashew. Yeah, yeah, it's just I mean, everybody's
everybody who knows. It's just saying don't do it. No. Wish pod
home 15,000 SATs. Oh, nice. Do podcast guru says I love that
there are more and more options for live podcasting. At pod
home.fm. We provide the streaming server for you. Just
flip a switch to configure it. We can also record your session
or play a recording as a live session. or small busy lots of
people using the live feature.
Adam Curry: Excellent. I'm glad I'm glad more of that, please.
Yes.
Dave Jones: Oh Clarkie. And this is my buddy. From up the road.
He says he's boosting through fountain 5000 Sassy synesthete
mint. E cash be a solution for multiple funding source meant
something to keep an eye on something to keep your eye on.
Adam Curry: It can all be in the options file.
Dave Jones: Fitty mint e cash. S T. Interesting. Yeah, I guess. I
guess Fetty meant I don't understand the difference
between 30 Min. And cashew? I mean, the
Adam Curry: Fetty men I think the fatty man is a bunch of
people who create a mint together. Okay, but I'm I'm a
little unclear on it myself.
Dave Jones: I think one thing that makes people nervous about
the minutes is that you can easily fractional reserve that
thing.
Adam Curry: Yes. Yes, that is an issue. You
Dave Jones: would I don't see it being trustworthy at all, unless
you have some sort of an attestation to balance what it
Adam Curry: brought us to strike into the O auth. And so I'm
grateful for that.
Dave Jones: And that's and I still think it's I think I still
think it's a feature thing. I mean, the only thing about
cashyou is us talking to Alex about this earlier. It feels a
little immature. I just don't sure that it's ready for Oh
yeah. Oh
Adam Curry: no, I think it's very immature at this point.
Yeah,
Dave Jones: I think in the future I could see mince being a
thing by
Adam Curry: the way. Bitcoin 67,002 79.
Dave Jones: Lord what did it why did it jump? Tron?
Adam Curry: Baby Trump. Trump crops on risk on risk on That's
right.
Dave Jones: Oh, and we got the delimiter call Mr. Blogger
28,000 SATs Nice. Thank you. Through fountain he says,
remembers this from two weeks ago. He says howdy David Adam.
Instead of the podcast this week in guns by Texans Ben and Jean,
aka two good old boys Podcast. Today I'd like to recommend a
good podcast about podcasting industry title in and around
podcasting by Mark Asquith, Danny Brown and friends. To find
it, please go to www.in and around podcasting.com or search
for in and around podcasting. In podcast player apps. It's better
recommended by podcast index for social users so good to CSV.
Adam Curry: Thank you CSB. always appreciated man always
appreciate. Thank you. Bunk.
Dave Jones: I wonder if the doubt Mark Asquith knows that
CSB paid to advertise his pledge. He
Adam Curry: did. This is a beautiful thing he does. I
really like it. It's good. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Any
monthlies Oh, yeah, we
Dave Jones: do. Thank you. I was it was sitting right in front of
my face. Trevor, the Satan's lawyer. Five $5 from Down Under.
Thank you had Pharaoh $20.22 Thank you, Brother Chad. Cameron
Rose $25 Martin lindskog. $1 Brendon. apod page $25. Nice
smart gram $1 Randall black $5. Joseph maraca $5. Emilio canto
Molina $4 Mitch and Kreon over a pod verse 50 bucks. Thank you.
Ah, beautiful. Basil fill up. $25 Thank you, basil. Lauren
ball. $24.22 Excuse me. $24.20 Thank you, Lauren. Christopher
hora, Barak $10. Mitch downy coming in again. 10 bucks. Terry
killer $5 longtime supporter Yes. Silicone florist. $10 Chris
cow and five bucks. Paul Saltzman $22.22 Beautiful
DePaul. Daymond Cassie Jack 15 bucks. Longtime Derek J.
Vickery. The best name In podcasting, $21, Jeremy gerdts
$5 New Media Productions that would be Todd and Tom Rob Yeah.
30 bucks. Thank you, Michael Hall $5.50 And Timothy voice
$10,
Adam Curry: thank you all very much for supporting us value for
value and keeps everything running. Dave and Adam don't do
not take any of this home, we leave it in the bank to keep all
of this running when we're long gone. Of course, the Bitcoin
stays on the node, we've been opening up channels with people
looking for alternate solutions going as sovereign, if you need
to, if you need some liquidity hit us up. It's, it's crazy, you
know, it's like they just open a million sat channel to Pete to
people not even thinking about it. And I'm like, Yeah, that's
700 bucks. Whoa, yeah, take
Dave Jones: some thought. Think
Adam Curry: about that for a second. Yeah, maybe 500,000 SATs
will be enough. But it doesn't matter. We don't mind locking it
all up. It's, it's all part of the service part. And including
podcasts index is social, you get it all. If you get any value
out of what we do, particularly the index, of course, which is
now powering 10s. if not hundreds of 1000s of listening
experiences, then support us with the value you get out of it
for your app for your, for your hosting service for just for
enjoyment for being a part of a great community, because it
really is and and I'm reminded once again, that podcasting
unites in such incredible ways. If you look at our podcast, the
podcasting 2.0 community, people from very diverse backgrounds,
very diverse ideals and thoughts, and somehow just all
working for the same goal of keeping this moving forward,
keeps us cohesive, keeps us together. And I appreciate how
everyone participates in that. It's really it's a great thing
that's happening here. It's unique, I would say unique.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I agree. But if, if we if we start
putting if if app start using strike a lot more, do should we
chant? Should we open a Fat Channel to strike?
Adam Curry: We can.
Dave Jones: I just, I just don't know. Who to contact over there.
I don't know that we have any connection there. Maybe I can
figure that out? By asking around at the conference or
something? I mean, it seems like it would make the the liquidity
better. Well, yeah.
Adam Curry: I mean, the it was, of course, we opened a pipe,
it's inbound for them. But a lot, a lot of their stuff will
just stay internal. Who knows how they even you know, if you
send from strike while to strike, while they may have
their own ledger, for all I know, just
Dave Jones: feels like if somebody's if somebody's
listener, app listener wallet is in strike, and they're boosting
to some somewhere else. Like, yeah, yeah. Or somebody's node?
Adam Curry: I think it's, I think it's the courteous thing
to do regardless.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you would think so. Find out some more at
the conference, we
Adam Curry: can probably we can just find on one, one mL,
whatever. Or M boss. Just find out what their nodes are and
just open it up. I mean, I'm sure they have a minimum
requirement, but we could open 10 million sets to them.
Dave Jones: And no cash app at least at one time. When they
first started doing lightning. They were really restrictive.
Yeah, well of course couldn't you couldn't open a channel to
them without basically without them knowing about it. Yeah.
Well, I'm
Adam Curry: happy I'm happy to do it. But we like being good
neighbors.
Dave Jones: We do good neighbor has really good no neighbors.
All right. Beautiful.
Adam Curry: Ha almost two hours on the nose. Brother Dave, thank
you so much. Glad to have you black back and black. Glad to
have Vanua Glad to have you here safely. And back in the
boardroom. I really miss talking to you.
Dave Jones: Yeah, me too. It was it was weird being like, it just
becomes part of your life and you're like, Wait a second. I'm
supposed to be doing something you are
Adam Curry: now officially a podcaster. That's alright,
everybody out there in the boardroom. Thank you very much
for tuning in. We'll be back next Friday live here on
podcasts and I know.
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