Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for August 16, 2024, episode 189,
all carrot and no stick. Hello everybody. Welcome once again to
the official board meeting. Yes, you are in the board room for
podcasting 2.0 what will we be talking about? Well, I'm sure
there's something that's going on with the podcast industrial
complex. We'll touch on it, but more importantly, we celebrate
the freedom of all podcasters around the globe. I'm Adam curry
here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the
man who issues more licenses than the US game and wildlife
agency. Say hello to my friend on the other end, the one and
only Mr. Dave Jones. Freedom, baby, is all about freedom.
Dave Jones: That's what you yell when you're getting your guts
cut out and set on fire.
Adam Curry: Yeah. I have, I have the actual Where is,
Dave Jones: is this the MEL gib Is this the ISO of Mel Gibson,
no,
Adam Curry: it's freedom. That's your vice president. It's
Friday, once again, everybody. That means it's time for the
official board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 what is
podcasting? 2.0 that is the question. Reset, yes. Reset
time, reset No. Reset time, reset time for a second. It's
just reset time. Three and a half, three and a half years
ago, I called Dave, and I said, Hey, man, hey, man,
Dave Jones: that's what you said. And man, I was like, what
up Ken? What
Adam Curry: groovy baby. I said, Hey, man, Apple's messing with
their API, baby, they're taking stuff out. It's no good. We
gotta fix that. And I was like, What's this job? And I said,
Man, them cats, they be screwing with our mojo.
Dave Jones: And it's exact. I have the transcript. It was
exactly like
Adam Curry: I said, Dave, this is a guaranteed no money maker,
are you in my brother and
Dave Jones: I said, yes, no, you went Sign me up.
Adam Curry: And thus podcast index.org was created. And just
just reminder that's that's how this all started. We just wanted
to have an open API accessible to anybody who wants to support
podcasting in its truest form, in nature, so I'm
Dave Jones: gonna, I'm gonna interrupt you for a second and
do something that I never do.
Adam Curry: The audience is riveted.
Dave Jones: I'm going to read a donation at the beginning of the
show.
Adam Curry: Wow. This must be some donation.
Dave Jones: I'm actually going to read two donations at the
beginning,
Adam Curry: not one, but two donations interrupting the flow.
Dave Jones: This is a $20 donation through PayPal from
somebody at with a college.harvard.edu, address.
Oh, and he, he or she says that came in this week. It says, I'm
using the API to perform a couple of 1000 queries. Truly a
lifesaver. Thank you. $20 beautiful.
Adam Curry: Thank you Harvard. Thank you Harvard. Person
Veritas, and
Dave Jones: $10 from Deborah Hanrahan. She says, Thanks for
helping me find some obscure feeds Beautiful.
Adam Curry: Well, there you go. That the idea was always to keep
the original idea RSS based podcasting, as was stewarded for
a decade by Apple, until they steward it wrong. And and we
made an agreement. We said, Hey, man, we'll just run this value
for value. If people find any value in this thing we're doing
here, they'll support us. And if not, then it'll go away. Do
something else. Yeah, well, we're always doing something
else, but, and then, as a part of that, I said, Wow, man, look
at look at this. Yo, yo, cat, yo. Sly slide. Look at this.
Look at this. Lightning. Sly said that could be a nice backup
if, if anybody decided to de platform people from PayPal,
which they were doing,
Dave Jones: and they'll Yeah, they with, which they did within
six months, yes,
Adam Curry: this thing and and then you said, yo, yo, bro, you
need a name space for that. And I went, name space as you wish,
my brother. We created a name space. Hit me with an hit me
with your best name space. And then you you put in a name
space, and the value block was born. And then we sat back and
we said, it's for freedom. People came along and went, Yes,
what are you guys? Are you far right? What is wrong with you?
Freedom? And
Dave Jones: they can't. And everybody came along and said,
What? What sphinx you want? Sphinx? What does that mean?
What is
Adam Curry: Sphinx? Exactly? But what happened then was
miraculous. It was really amazing. People came in and
said, I got some ideas. Guys, I got some ideas. I had some ideas
brewing in the kitchen for 10 years. I want some chapters. I
want some transcripts. I want some people tags. I want some
geolocation tags. I got all kinds of ideas, man. And that
became podcasting 2.0 it is a community. It is not Adam, it is
not Dave, it is not driven by anything other than a bunch of
rag tag ragged muffins who showed up to the orchestra with
a banjo
Dave Jones: and spoon organ behind you.
Adam Curry: I do who showed up showed up with some spoons, some
washboards, banjos. Let me hear it for the fiddle, the guy, the
boom. And then people started saying, You need to market this.
And we went market what we were here? No, we are here for the
API, baby. We're not here for the marketing. And then it took
off from there. And then, you know, all of a sudden, we're
trying to solve some of the world's biggest problems when
the only problem we ever wanted to solve was for that, that
lonely podcaster who as who made a boo boo and son something that
the Silicon Valley people would not like, and they took him
away. By the way, look at what's happening in the UK. Now want to
bet the podcasts are going to be de platformed over there in the
UK. Oh, yeah. Oh for sure, yeah. Has anyone chat the the UK
apples, apple, iTunes podcast thing? I'm a Bobby yet. So
that's all that's all that we ever wanted to do. We never
wanted to do any more, any less. We didn't want to create any
anything additional. It was everybody else who came in and
we said, hey, that's cool. That's cool. Yo. We'll talk
about it. We'll do a board meeting. That's it. And some
people went and said, I'll market it. And it turns out
really, yay, yay. Turns out it's really hard, really hard
podcasting two.org is kind of stalled, so and I was reminded
of of a couple things. So we are a rag tag, bunch of rag muffins.
Yeah,
Dave Jones: rebel, a Rebel Alliance, a
Adam Curry: rebel. Well, we are the Minute Men of podcasting.
And let me explain. Man, yes, let me explain. So we took a
trip. We had, we had watched this documentary called
monumental it's from 2012 Kirk Cameron. Did it? Production
value low?
Dave Jones: Ouch, sorry. Three out of 10.
Adam Curry: Pretty out of tune. Production value low. But it
told the story of the ragtag group who came over on the
Mayflower to the United States. And I had always heard the story
like, you know, a bunch of guys with funny hats, and they had
buckles on their shoes. They showed up, and then they they
said, Hey, we're here. And then killed all the engines with the
germs, stole the stole the land. Yes. And turns out it's a little
different when you when you learn the true history. So we
went to Plymouth, Massachusetts, which is best known for the
Plymouth Rock, Plymouth Rock. And we went now, we went to see
that we didn't see the Plymouth Well, the Plymouth Rock, this is
supposed to be the rock that the Mayflower. By the way, there's a
Mayflower too, man. You consider there were 102 passengers on
that thing. He is like that was no fight for 66 days with no
windows, chickens, goats, everything on board. Very tight,
no good six, only beer to drink, whatever they were living in
tough conditions. And so they came ashore, and 95 years later,
some, some dude went, you know, I think it was that rock, that
one. And they said, okay, cool. Well, we'll, we'll put 1602 on
it, or 1620 on it, and we'll put it over here, and we'll build
the thing around it. But we don't really know if that was
the rock. It wasn't the rock. It's a dumb rock, the rock
Dave Jones: stupid. A lot of that going on in Israel too.
Hey, here's where Jesus, oh, everywhere,
Adam Curry: everywhere. And would you like a T shirt?
Exactly? Yeah, t shirt. So Plymouth itself was beautiful.
The weather was 75 degrees. Could not have been prettier.
You know, you said, yeah, hey, let's have a Sam Adams. Why not
make sense while we're here. But the real reason for our trip was
something called the monument to the forefathers, which I've
never been told about even Dvorak, the book of knowledge.
Dvorak had never heard of it. You say forefathers?
Dave Jones: Are you saying? Fo. Or, f o r, e, f
Adam Curry: o r, e, the forefathers, gotcha. And this
is, in a way, you know, the 12 rocks. With the children of
Israel, they had the 12 rocks remind them of the journey. They
made 12 stones.
Dave Jones: I don't remember that. I just know that they put
up altars everywhere, about everything, right? I mean, if,
if you know, if, if Joseph sneezed, they built an altar,
you know, to commemorate it
Adam Curry: was it 12 rods? No, 12 rod. Rods is the band.
Thanks. Booberry. Booberry, stop distracting me. The board, the
board room will settle down. Um, think Georgia guidestone. You've
all heard the Georgia guidestone, which, which says
this horrible New World Order thing that says, you know, we
don't need more than 500 million people and get rid of everybody
and kill everybody. Okay, so this, this is really a a
monument that was, it's, I think it's 60 or 70 feet tall. It is
the largest single granite structure in America. Never
heard of it, and it is, in effect, a guide to America, and
never heard of it either. Oh, man, you have to look it up. So
it has multiple it's a statue of this woman standing with her
finger pointed toward the sky, and her name, it's all engraved.
Her name is Faith. And on the side, there's four sides to it.
One is law, one is morality, one is education, and then the final
one is liberty. And the Liberty man is looking out over the
harbor, and it gives an explanation of what we knew,
what America was comprised of,
Dave Jones: National Monument to the forefathers. Yes, and that's
big, and
Adam Curry: it's right in, it's right in a little residential
area. There's no no t shirt stand. You can't buy a beer and
ice cream. There's hardly, there's no ropes. There's hardly
anybody there. It's, it's very impressive. They started
building it, I think in 1850 completed in 1889 what might
have been a warrant in between. Then it might have stopped for a
second. So really impressive. Then we decided we're going to
drive up to Lexington green. Are you familiar with Lexington
green?
Dave Jones: I've heard the name Lexington
Adam Curry: green in 1775 is where Reverend Clark had, he had
John Hancock and one of the other signers of the Declaration
will come to me in a moment. And they were kind of hiding out
there, and because they were being hunted down by the
British, and they, you know, they were like, getting ready
because, you know, Hey, man, we want to make this a country, and
we want to declare our independence from Britain. And
this is where Paul Revere road, the British are coming. The
British are coming. Yeah, the red coats, that's right. And so
this and so Reverend Clark had taught the the congregation
there how to load their muskets, and they went on the Lexington
green, and the British, there was 30 guys, and 800 British
solder soldiers show up. Okay? And they stood their ground, and
they the British went away. They said, You know what, we can't
we're not going to fight these guys. And I think eight of them
died. And it's a reminder, and it even has this huge mass with
a big flag on top says, birthplace of American liberty.
And it reminded me that even with 30 people with muskets and
you know, and half a bullet between them, can stand up
against the big powers that be, that, my friends, is podcasting
2.0 we are that ragtag group, and we can stand up against
them, and they will eventually just go away or not, doesn't
matter. They will not get rid of us, is my point. They cannot get
rid of us. They will not get rid of us. Now, of course, if we try
to play their games, it's going to be a very disappointing
journey, which is where I think sometimes we get stuck in. And I
just wanted to reiterate that we are here for for liberty, the
liberty of podcasting, the liberty for anyone to say what
they want to say, and for it to be available wherever you get
your podcasts. That's it. That's all that we ever set out to do,
and I think we're succeeding greatly, and I'm very proud of
everybody for contributing as it comes to podcasting point 2.0,
and what that is and what that means, it's up to you, and it's
up to each individual podcaster to tell their audience, how to
support them, what podcast apps to use, how to listen. That's
what it's about. There's nothing we can do to beat Apple or
Spotify at the games they're playing, because they're just
playing their games. You. We are here to support the liberty of
the podcasters who just want a podcast.
Dave Jones: If you want everybody gets the podcasting
2.0 that they deserve Absolutely.
Adam Curry: And so when, when I hear carrots and sticks and all
kinds of things, I'm like, can we just reset for a second what
we are and what is going on here? Ah, what are you drinking?
Dave Jones: Sam Adams,
Adam Curry: nice, very nice. You'll be so hammered by the end
of the board meeting. So we should probably just talk about
this. This, this comment that was made. Do you send clips?
These clips have anything to do with it? Yeah, yeah. Why don't
you bring us up to speed on what is happening? What, what the big
conversation was
Dave Jones: evident. So Rob and Elsie over on the feed,
Adam Curry: paid the lips and podcast lips
Dave Jones: and podcast did a long segment about podcasting
2.0 on their show this week. And you know that they've talked
about it briefly, maybe once or twice before, and, you know,
typically at sort of a negative take, which is fine, you know,
everybody has their own opinion about things, but then they did
a long segment about it, about it this time. And I guess, the
way, yeah, I only pulled one clip because I think it just,
honestly, it just was kind of the same thing over and over. So
just pulled sort of one exempt a, like, an example clip that
kind of sums up the whole thing. But before we get into that,
like, I mean, I'll just, I'm probably, here's what I'll do.
I'll build, I'm going to build a ROB sandwich. Okay, okay. So the
the the way, the way you do in his show business, to my
understanding, is, you, you, you do what you do, what's called
Building a sandwich. You, when you critique somebody, you give,
you start out giving them the good. You say something good
about them. Then you say the thing that you that's negative,
and then you finish it up with something good, like, Hey, Joe,
great job on that line. I would love to we call
Adam Curry: that a shoe sandwich. I don't know what
Dave Jones: great job you really killed it in that scene. If all
you know next time, let's on this next take. Let's try to
just get a little bit more feeling in it. And by the way,
Hey, you look great. All right, listen,
Adam Curry: okay, so you are so tactical.
Dave Jones: Yes, I'm gonna build. I'm gonna build a
sandwich. I have only interacted with Rob Walsh once in my whole
life, and it was over email, and he asked us to take down a bunch
of fraudulent feeds of Dan Carlin that got into the index,
right? And, I mean, I responded and took them down within five
minutes. That is my only time I've ever even spoken with the
with with him. So I'll say, you know, so I'll start, I'll lay
down the first slice of bread and say he's, he's been at
Lipson forever and and I mean, this is I'm being truthful here.
I'm being honest with my feelings. Nobody stays in a
position for that long without having had shown results, right?
So he's clearly, wasn't
Adam Curry: he one of the original founders?
Dave Jones: I thought that, but I didn't, I don't know. So I
thought he was, I mean, I thought he was one of the I
thought he was too, but I don't have confirmation that So, but,
I mean, he's been there for a long, long time. And you, like I
said, you don't stay there that long unless you know what you're
doing and are able to show results. The other thing that I
thought he was right about, so I listened to the whole thing,
and, you know, it's it, it you you can't, if you just pull out
clips of stuff, sometimes it's not, you know, it doesn't give
you a sense of the whole thing. So I listened to the whole
episode, and he had something to say about about making money and
advertising and censorship and this kind of thing. And one
point he made before they started really talking about 2.0
much is he said, um, there's an advertiser out there. I'm kind
of paraphrasing. There's an advertiser out there for
everyone you know. So you know, if you have, and he used the
example of Joe Rogan. I mean, Joe, you know, hey, you could
use the example of call her daddy as well. I mean, these
call her daddy is a nasty show. I mean, they talk about all
kinds of nasty stuff all the time, nasty. Yes, it's not
exactly brand safe. No, neither is a lot of stuff Rogan does is
not brand safe. I mean. But there's tons of quote, not brand
safe shows that are doing just fine on advertising. And
Adam Curry: can we, can we recognize, for a moment, the OG
advertisers, GoDaddy, Squarespace and Fleshlight?
Dave Jones: Yes? Like, yeah,
Adam Curry: I haven't forgotten Fleshlight. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Forgot about that one. I mean, are you gonna make?
Would you make as much as if you're brand safe? I mean, no,
maybe not, but somebody's gonna bite the apple. I mean, no
matter how far down the rabbit hole you go. I mean, Alex Jones
was not. He was doing pretty well. He
Adam Curry: was his own advertiser. He was selling his
own boner pills. It was great.
Dave Jones: And seeds and gold, and I mean that somebody quite
well did quite well. Yeah, you might call it a podcast,
pantage, you know, just you're out there for, you know,
foraging. So that's even, that's, that's kind of, that's
kind of one thing and another. The meat of the sandwich here,
though, is something about us has seemed to annoy rob from the
first day that we've existed. I'm not sure exactly what it is
or why, but it's, it seems to have been there a long time, um,
and and listening to their discussions of 2.0 like, I guess
the only thing that I can the way I would sum it up, is saying
this, it's like listening to somebody describe your political
candidate of choice. And they get in, they just and they get
every single thing wrong, like it was, every tag that they
discussed, every podcast namespace, tag that they
discussed, was just completely wrong the way they described it,
you know? And that's, that's, there's only one way that
happens is you have done no research. Or,
Adam Curry: if you're listening to MSNBC,
Dave Jones: it's like you've done, you've just done no
research. This the spec as written, the namespace spec is
intentionally written in plain English. It's not a bunch of
tech jargon, right? It's not a hard thing to understand those
documents and the goals and methods behind each one. So, I
mean, the only way you could be that dead wrong and everything
is if you just literally done no no research at all.
Adam Curry: Right? And I agree. I also listen to it. I know
exactly what you're saying, yeah. And so you can
Dave Jones: say Sam Adams Oktoberfest
Adam Curry: beer.
Dave Jones: So that that's, I think, just sort of like a way
to bring, bring us into this, is that, I think what they were
doing is they've done no research at all on 2.0 and the
actual way that any of it works. Can I
Adam Curry: interrupt you for a second? I recall, did we not
have a zoom call with someone over at Libsyn at some point?
You and I
Dave Jones: didn't we. We talked to Gibbons, yeah, yeah. And we
Adam Curry: and we said, hey, how can we help? How can we
pitch in? What do you need? You know, is anything? Yeah. And
that's when he said, Guys, look, you know, we'll, we'll, you
know, we're a little tight on budget. I think they were
cutting some things and but 2025 or No, 2024 I think you said,
you know we're gonna, we're gonna hit it hard. Hit it hard.
Q1, 2024
Dave Jones: we had a, yeah, we had that Zoom call with John
Gibbons and their lead developer.
Adam Curry: That was we reached out. We said, hey, here we are.
We are here. We are here. Uh huh,
Dave Jones: December of 20. It may have been December of 2022,
22 and they said, 23 we're gonna do they said, We're gonna do pod
ping. We're gonna do this. They listed off a few things that we
do, and they they did none of it, you know, which is fine,
they've, they've, it's a trouble. It's a troubled
company, okay? And I don't mean that, I don't, I'm not trying to
be ugly. I'm just saying that it, it's obviously been a
troubled company at the time. You know, they had those weird
Chinese investors that were in jail. Oh no, there's a cap
table.
Adam Curry: Must be a nightmare. I mean, the whole financially
ownership structure, it must be very, very complicated,
Dave Jones: yeah. So, I mean, I was like, I was always like,
hey, you know, you got bigger problems, you know, this, this
is just not that big of a thing. So, um, but, you know, every the
description they gave of every tag was just wrong. Here in the
clip I pulled is a good example of this. And then talking about
the I think, let's see me pull up my clips. I thought the dad
bring the live item tag is what you live item tag? Yeah, go
ahead and play that. What
Unknown: are other advantages to podcasting 2.0 standards? People
can. Be notified that you are
Adam Curry: on a second. This is, let me just hear that again.
I'll ring the bell and I'll explain later,
Unknown: what are other advantages to podcasting, 2.0
standards. People can be notified that you are streaming
your show live. This is with a live item tag, and with a modern
podcasting app that recognizes the live item tag, they will be
notified that a show they are subscribed to has gone live. Mix
that with the booster grams, and you've got almost instant
feedback loop that happens during the show, and this allows
your audience to partake in what you are creating. End Quote,
it's a nice option, but there are so many other ways to notify
your audience that you're going live. Most are presenting out
notifications from the live apps you're going to be live in. They
all support that.
Adam Curry: Oh, wow, yeah. So she read it perfectly, and Rob
didn't understand it.
Dave Jones: Yeah, they don't like that's that's that. And it
was that the whole time. It was describing a tag this now they
were reading a letter that somebody had written in about a
lot of different podcasting 2.0 tags. So they were sort of like
going through them in every in every instance it was a
description of a tag, and then their commentary showed a
complete misunderstanding of how that tag works. And in this,
this is a good example, the live item tag, the because, the
because the writer of the letter said you can be notified in the
app when the show goes live, they don't have any they don't
have any understanding that the reason you're getting notified
is because you're listening in the podcast app. They, they
they're still thinking that you get notified through some sort
of push notification, and then you switch over to YouTube, and
so they don't understand that the live stream is in the feed,
right and the podcast app itself is you can listen right there.
So that's why you're getting notified of a live stream, just
like you get notified by your podcast app of a new episode,
because the because you're listening there in the app,
you're not having to switch to some other app. So they went
into this complicated talk about, you know, when we use
email to notify people when we're going to go live and we
put in a link to our YouTube channel and all this kind of
it's like, this is, this is a complete misunderstanding. And
that was just that. That was my biggest beef with this whole
thing, is that I don't, I don't mind anybody having a difference
of opinion about the actual way that any of this works. You
could look at this. You could look at any of the standards and
say any of the tags and say, Okay, look what just like like
James is a good example. He has a couple of tags that he just
doesn't like, you know, but, but he understands what the tags do
in his in his criticisms are from an actual, accurate
understanding of what they do, not from just hearsay. And
that's where you have a problem, is when you think is when you're
just listening and you don't fully understand, and then you
just throw out a hot take it, you end up completely getting it
all wrong.
Adam Curry: All right, can I? Can I give my view on what's
happening here? Yeah, sure. And I have, I have, I will give Rob
a lot of grace. He's in a company that has been troubled
for a long time. It's one of the original OG companies. In fact,
I recall thinking, how do these guys do it? How can they the
bandwidth was so expensive at the time. Like, how can they,
how do they make it so cheap and so affordable it was, it was
quite amazing. So this company has gone through. I mean, I've
started companies, I've been owner, I've taken a company
public. I've done acquisitions, all of it, all of it, all of it
is pain, particularly if you're public, whether you're a pink
slip, OTC, NASDAQ, whatever it is, you have to report numbers.
I mean, the company is the focus of the people in the company.
It's so I mean, when your stock is rising, everyone's like, Yay,
great. And when it's not, it's like, I'm underwater. Here.
Everyone gets depressed. You see it throughout the hallways. You
integrate a new company. People have to get fired. Things have
to be put together. You know, it's a it's all pain. It's very,
very painful. And, and this is in general, just, you know,
podcasting. Once you bring in the advertising into your walls.
You just, you might as well just say, Come on in, enemy. Come on
in. Come on, come on, come on, come on. Run around here, devil.
Run around here and just cause havoc everywhere. So there's
that. And then, of course, there's really no. I mean, who
is in charge, who makes the call, who says, Yes, we're gonna
develop this. Us see lips in five. I mean, I still don't
think it's done. So there's severe technical debt, or
there's some other stuff going on internally. Maybe it's just
too many captains, not enough captains, no captain, you don't
know they're not communicating to the outside world. And Rob
Walsh is sitting there doing podcaster relations, having had
a podcasting organization, probably the hardest job you can
imagine is the person who has to talk to the podcasters every
single day.
Dave Jones: It's like help desk in it.
Adam Curry: It worse, worse because it's all emotional.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you know, I
Adam Curry: mean, yeah, I'm sorry. I don't I can't say it's
worse, but I think it is because it, you know, a technical thing
you can solve when it comes to an emotional thing. And why am I
not making any money on ads? Why am I not prioritized? Why am I
this? Why am I that? And it's all day long, you know, do you
have people who just need help, like, so do I click the right
mouse button. I mean, there's that. It's frustrating as well.
So when you're dealing with that all day long, and then people
come along and say, I want podcasting 2.0 well, we don't
have that. So right? You are going to as a human being when
you're frustrated and things are going on inside the
organization. I'm sure Rob would love nothing more than to to be
a part of the group and be be hanging with Mr. Cooper, doing
everything cool and and contributing. But he is swamped.
He's swamped in in this world that he's living in which, you
know, people are jumping out of this or getting pushed out of
there's so much going on that we don't know. And it's very human,
I think, to then say, well, you know that stuff is really not it
doesn't work on Apple. Don't worry about it, because you got
these customers. They're your clients. They're saying, How
come we're not getting anything? So then we get to the carrot and
the stick thing. And I thought long and hard, I sent him an
email having her back. And in fact, we might need, I think we
should invite him on the show. I mean, if he feels like it, I'd
love to talk to him about this on the show. The boardroom is
the perfect place to talk about it. But there was this
continuous carrot and the stick. Well, these guys, if they had
only, if they would only use carrots instead of sticks. And
to me when I hear them talking about standards, it, for me, it
all goes back to the podcast, standards group, yes, and I
don't believe they were involved. I don't think Libsyn
either accepted the invitation. Maybe they weren't at the secret
dinner. Because, you know, I don't think it was malicious.
It's just like, well, you know, Rob, maybe someone forgot to ask
him whatever it was. I believe he felt excluded. Then you come
up with certifications and badges, and you got to be a part
of it, and the minute that started to wane and become weak,
which it is. And I appreciate that Sam Sethi stepped up, but I
see no advancement. Then, you know, it's something that you go
and beat. And I think that's what he was talking about. Oh,
they all wanted to make this happen. They all were going to
get together, and we weren't a part of it. We weren't invited,
or whatever happened there. And there was the outreach was not
done. And then, and also, because Libsyn doesn't seem to
be very, be very communicative. They couldn't really do anything
for their internal struggles. And that's where I think that's
coming from, but I don't think it's coming from anything else.
And then, you know, it's easy to just, you know, be mad. It's
mad. I get it. I really do. I think that's that is what's
happening. And let's be honest about it, we have, as a group,
not done a good job with podcast standards group. We have not
done a good job with marketing, whatever this is. I mean, I'd
love that that Daniel J Lewis stepped up and said, Okay, I've
told you I can do this podcasting two.org doesn't
explain anything for a listener. It's like, here's some apps. It
doesn't tell you what it all is. It's, you know, it's, I'm sorry,
I don't think it's a very good marketing website, which I
thought it was going to be, because this is hard stuff. It's
hard. None of this is easy. There's no organization, there
is no company, there's no cash flows throughout all of this,
and along comes the incentives. So what really are the
incentives for everybody? We, as I said in the beginning, you and
I stepped in. Our incentive was freedom. That was the only
incentive, no money, no prospect of money, just let's do it.
Because screw those guys. We know how to do this, and we're
going to do it.
Dave Jones: And freedom is a strong incentive for
Adam Curry: us. Yes, but most people, if you're developing an
app, your incentive is not going to be helping out advertisers,
because you're not in the flow. Why did value for value payments
work with lightning? I. A It was simple to do once we got APIs
working. And two, there was an incentive. That incentive was I
get a piece of the action. That's why it got implemented.
And now we're in in a in a holding pattern, although, thank
you. Oscar, Mary says he's he's figured out his API issues, and
he's working on, on, on the secondary and tertiary payment
mechanisms, yeah, and that will come back, or, you know,
whatever. I sure hope so. But we still are just a bunch of people
trying to make something happen, and without the and we learned
this early on. Without the podcast hosting company
supporting it, we're just farting in the wind. No,
Dave Jones: yeah, it's irrelevant. It's completely
Adam Curry: irrelevant. So kudos to blueberry, kudos to
Buzzsprout, although they could do more. Kudos to pod home, to
RSS, blue to RSS doc all. I mean, everyone has done versions
that they can red circle, red circle, and that they have
cycles for. And we are so far ahead in phase seven of the
namespace, where there's phase one things that I think still
have not been implemented. So if anything needs to happen, and
this is where Libsyn got left out, not purposely, not for and
by any fault of their own, per se, because they just don't have
this the cycles to do it. I guess improving podcasting is a
natural evolution, and it takes time for these things to to
materialize transcripts, I think has been pretty successful. I
think we took three years and we got something that Apple also
supports, you know, then all of a sudden we have these, these
big, you know, the 400 pound gorilla Spotify, who was trying
to eat up everybody's hosting uh, business, you know. Is it
possible that if we all said, let's make sure everybody
accepts Spotify does all this stuff, maybe we can all, you
know, and, and if we could get Apple, I mean, this would be the
dream, right? If Apple said, Hey, we're going to be with you
guys, because we would love to have more features and we can go
kill Spotify, that would be something they need to do, but
they're not doing it because they got other things that they
got, Apple intelligence. You know, the Apple intelligence
says, no, they got to do something else. So, you know,
I'm perfectly happy with all of us just developing our apps, the
apps and services that want to add this. It all comes back to
the podcaster. 35% of people who listen to my podcast use modern
podcast apps, and they love the features that it uses. That's
the win. To me, that's the win. And if we think that it all has
to be some industry or everybody has to be on the same page.
Forget it. That's not how it works in distributed land. It's
just not but it doesn't mean that we can't continue to build
and continue to to move forward, and that I would love for Rob to
be able to, if possible, to move his company or whatever he can
within his company, to come more into where we're at. That would
be fantastic. But when you create clubs and badges and and
names and make it which I'm I'm also guilty of, you know,
podcasting 2.0 it's almost exclusionary by definition,
which, but isn't it was never the intent. But now I see, oh,
well, then these people feel like they're not a part of the
club, but everyone's welcome. We'd love for everybody to come
in
Dave Jones: that I think the, I think I think you're, I think
your instincts are probably pretty accurate on this that I
was thinking about the carrot and the stick. And I didn't pull
that, but he just kept using this phrase over and over, more
carrot, less stick, about 2.0 adoption. And, you know, I think
they, they obviously love Marco from overcast over there. They
talked a lot about him at the beginning of their show, sort of
gushing about overcast and Marco and how great he is, and that
kind of thing. And Marco is also annoyed by 2.0 and so I think
they probably picked up some of that as well from him. And I
think you're right, and that the origin of, I think the origin of
a lot of that stuff is from the podcast Standards Project. I
don't know this for a fact, because I don't have any first
hand knowledge, because let's go back to the beginning of the
podcast Standards Project is a hosting company initiative. We
purposely stayed out of that because it we didn't. We. It,
the freedom of not having to be, you know, in a some sort of
bureaucratic we just didn't want any of that. And so we wanted to
be able to build stuff, be crazy, test stuff, and then if
the podcast Standards Project, people want to do something and
create some sort of standard that they that's their business.
So we sort of stayed out of that, but immediately there was
this confusion between the podcast Standards Project and
podcasting 2.0 project. And they they were always confused as the
same thing from the beginning. And I don't know this for a
fact, but I feel like somebody involved with the podcast
Standards Project reached out to Marco to try to talk about to
try to get overcast on board, because he was, he was all he
was very interested in 2.0 features, up until right about
the time the podcast standards project launched, and then All
of a sudden, he was just flipped because he was talking, he was
on the forum saying, hey, you know, I'm looking to do
chapters, cloud chapters. I'm thinking about doing it this
way. How To what do y'all recommend? There was
communication going on. And then he had an, you know, overcast
started the activity, pub, on podcast, index, dot, social,
there was interaction. And then as soon as the PSP started, that
changed. And I think that something in the original
somebody or somebody, something in the original PSP incarnation,
pissed some people off. And went and because it immediately
became something like, I remember Marcus, you know,
implant, implying that he did not want people telling him what
to do with his own app. And I think there was miscommunication
in some way. Oh,
Adam Curry: no, Dave, of course. No, I don't think there's anyone
tried to do anything nefarious or mean or exclusionary. It just
what we have here is the basic
Dave Jones: lack of communication. Yes, a failure to
communicate. Yes, of course, of
Adam Curry: course. No, no one meant anything bad. But this is
what happens. Is just how it goes. But
Dave Jones: I think that, I think that the you know, that I
think that is or the origin of a lot of this carrot stick stuff.
And I don't, I hate that that is the case, because, you know, I
don't, I 100% guarantee it was not intentional, and it doesn't
really have anything to do with us. 2.0 features have nothing to
do with any sort of standard certification or anything like
that. They're just not the same thing. And so you can, you can
jump on board and add, you know, there's hundreds of 1000s of
feeds out there now that have 2.0 tags in them. And for an app
developer to just ignore that, or a hosting company to ignore
that, doesn't make any sense. It really doesn't, because,
Adam Curry: well, then, well, then you get stuff, well, then
you get into, into personalities and and I'm, I'm definitely
someone who says, Hey, drop that legacy. Why would you deal with
that? You know, and so that and which, with which, I mean
specifically apple and Spotify. And when I say that, I always
add because your favorite podcast may drop away that's
pointing towards the index, not towards anything else.
Specifically, because I know that three to four podcasts per
day are D platform from Apple and from Spotify. And I just, I
find that to be a problem. And and then you add to that are
just the fact that we initially spoke about freedom of speech,
which many within our group said, Oh, man, you got to tone
that down. We did, actually, we did because, you know, okay, you
did okay. You want to stone it down. That's a problem. We
don't, you know, we don't have to make money off of saying
we're for freedom of speech. That's okay. But that was in
that time period, if you recall, was a lot about covid issues,
covid measures, you know, then brand safety came in, racism,
black lives matter. I mean, a whole there's a division in the
world that is much bigger than podcasting, and it's very
difficult to then say, Hey, we're just for anybody you want,
as long as it's within the law. You do whatever you want to do,
and we don't care, we're just going to leave it and as long as
you're technically doing the right thing. Then, then
hallelujah, we'll put you in the index. We, you know, submit it
yourself. It's all good to go. So there's a lot of that playing
into it, you know, what side of the political spectrum are you
on? Look, Marco used to support us with $500 a month. He stopped
that six months ago. Maybe.
Dave Jones: Yeah, something. Like that.
Adam Curry: I mean, I don't know if he still uses the index. I
mean, we, I thought, we thought we had some synchronizing deal
going on between his database and our database. I don't know
if that, if he does that anymore or not. I have no idea still, he
still syncs with us. Yeah, okay, well, so he clearly didn't feel
that there was enough value coming out of the index for him
to support it, which is fine, which is why we never, even
never made mention of, is, okay, fine, that's good with me.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's not a big deal. No,
Adam Curry: not at all.
Dave Jones: But, you know, I think that. I think, I think
that the free the I think the freedom of speech thing is
probably so one thing they talked about, and this is a
constant source of confusion, is the is value for value is not
Satoshis correct that it is not Bitcoin. It is not value for
value. It two, two examples, two easy examples, value for value,
no agenda does not, does not, does not do, uh, lightning
payments. Nope.
Adam Curry: Well, well, it receives lightning payments. But
I if you look at the splits, you'll see that that goes
everywhere, except to Adam curry and John C Dvorak.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you PERS, you the hosts of the show do not
accept lightning payment. No, the the value tag is for a
different function. It's about privacy, payment, privacy, and
removing the middleman from the process. Because, you know, it
is as much as you as as much as people may not agree with this,
if it's politically hot topic, but the Canadian trucker thing
was a clear example of of getting in for political
reasons, getting involved in the payment flow, right? Russia
getting kicked off Swift. We see these politically motivated
things, getting involved in interrupting the flow of of
money, and Alex Jones getting de platformed and Todd. Todd
Cochran says three or four shows, three or four episodes of
podcasts a week are taken down by Spotify from blueberry. From
blueberry shows, these are being demonetized for largely
political reasons or brand safety reasons. And if you look
like I pulled I was listening to America this week, last Friday,
and Walter Kern, you know, we had just talked about, we had
just talked about UID too. And you know, the the problems with
that whole system, and you are into then right after that, I
started listening to America this week, and Walter Kern
starts talking in this clip about marketing and sales
technologies that that eventually feed back into
government.
Unknown: What bothers me mostly is that all of these sales
techniques, these marketing techniques, and these
information engineering techniques feed back into actual
governance and law enforcement, and then they become part of the
law enforcement and sort of security apparatus of the
country. So what we're watching here is kind of like the, you
know, the profane version the marketing, electoral, you know,
branding, getting somebody into Office part. But what we're not
seeing is that these same tools and these same people, in many
cases, are all then go into government and start to use
these things in an official capacity, a disciplinary
capacity, sometimes a punitive capacity. And it's not just
marketing anymore. It's running our lives astute, to say the
least,
Dave Jones: yeah. And so the, you know, we talked about the
this UID to network. I mean, remember what this thing is.
This is a UID to is a marketing ID that is a hash derived from a
piece of what they call dii, which is personal information,
email address, phone number, and that will feedback that gets
distributed to all these, what they call operator nodes. Um is
so you have a shared hash from your private from from your
private identification, identifying information. It's
getting passed around amongst all these ad marketing servers.
So if you buy something on Amazon and you listen to
something on Spotify, and then you post something on Twitter,
these DSP servers that fulfill the ad placements, they're gonna
they're all going to know that it was you. Now, supposedly they
don't, supposedly the DSP does. Doesn't know who quote you are,
because they're just have a hash, but every player in the
market knows, because they have the actual they're the ones that
created the hash. So you know, you can imagine coder like coder
radio. This week, Chris was talking about cars that now
track your speed by default, unless you opt out, you know,
all of a sudden. So now that that's another player in there
that can they could spin up a UID, a UID to server and hash
your email address, start feeding this stuff back in. All
of a sudden. Now you're getting ads for high risk car insurance
on when you do Google searches. I mean, they this. People who
listen to thrash metal may have more car accidents, so what your
Spotify playlist is determines what your insurance rates are.
That you know, this is a system where everyone knows who you
are, because they've all hashed your email address, except the
DSP serving the ads. Of course, government is going to subpoena
these records as part of just standard procedure. It'll just
become a standard part of the grab the phone, decrypt
everything, get all the information, get your search
history. This is, this is just all going to be part of the same
process, and this is the world that we live in right now. You
know this the other guy, it's all, you know, it's always the
the other guy that you have to worry about. Think about 1988
you had Ronald Reagan. 20 years later, you have Obama. Things
flip, and then you went to Trump, and then you went to
Biden. Things flip very quickly. It's not the it's not your when
you create technologies and you create systems and protocols
that work a certain way, they have to be resilient to stand up
to the worst possible person on the other side of your political
ideas that you can imagine. And if they're not, you're doing it
wrong. So that's the I that's what we went into this whole
thing with, is this idea that we're going to build these
protocols where the feed itself and the app can communicate
together, the listener and the and the and the podcaster have a
direct relationship that doesn't depend on any third parties
being trusted to, quote, do the right thing, okay, man. Because
if you, if you ever put that, if that's in your flow chart, where
you have this person in the middle who you're going to trust
to just be benevolent, you're doing it wrong.
Adam Curry: I want to, I want to take it to another topic that is
along with this. And I want to, I have a suggestion. So just as
expected, uh, Patreon became a problem this week. Yeah, um,
which supposedly Patreon is used by 40,000 podcasts, which, by
the way, if you look at value for value, payments being 20,000
or 22,000 whatever it is, not bad. And so now everybody's
freaking out about, you know, I guess, because, I mean, Patreon,
yeah, podcast, sure, but it's used for all kinds of stuff,
people's poetry, people's art projects, people's blog posts.
It's used for many things, and they are now going to be subject
to the Apple Store tax. I would like to make a proposal that the
most important tag we can promote and promote to. In fact,
Apple is the funding tag, and I am going to start promoting this
very heavily on no agenda, because as far as I know, almost
every single one of the modern podcast apps, the ones that have
namespace understanding, I think they all support funding. Yeah,
it's pretty broad, yeah. And this would also immediately
solve the entire Patreon problem for these apparent 40,000
podcasters, all you do is put your Patreon link in the funding
tag, and Bob's your uncle. Ooh, timing is beautiful. Boom, thank
you. Dee laughs. Who says, Love the conversation. So right now,
on no agenda, the funding tag, I'm gonna tell everyone, Hey,
you want to help it. You want to support us in your modern
podcast app, just hit that little that little money button
up there, it'll take you right to our donation page, and from
there, you can decide how you want to support us. I think this
is, this is a a big problem solving tag, and think of all
the different hosting companies who could be promoting this to a
lot of people use Patreon. A lot. So instead of sending your
people into an app where you're going to get penalized up to 30%
you can now send them off to Patreon or wherever you want to
send them to, to your own stripe pay. You can get a Stripe
account and have your own, your own credit card system.
Dave Jones: And I think that fits well with another, another
misconception that was brought up in in the in the lips and
show is you do not need in app support for this to work. You
just need a QR code. All you need is a link so the funding
tag could take you out just like we saw at bands. When I went to
bands at Bitcoin, I did not, I did not send those boosts
through a podcast app. I sent them. I sent all that, all those
donations. I sent by scanning the QR code that was up on the
screen at the at the event, put in my message, typed in how much
I wanted to send, and I did it that way. I didn't do it
through, through the app itself. I could have, I could have for
apps that support that. It's very convenient, but it's not
required, right? And so the funding tag could easily take
you to a donation page of any type, lightning, PayPal. This
all our show the boardroom gets more donation money, yeah, from
every month from PayPal than we do from from lightning.
Adam Curry: Let me just, let me double check and make sure our
let's see what's in our show. Info owner, info support, like,
sure
Dave Jones: it's still our PayPal Yeah,
Adam Curry: still our PayPal link. Yep,
Dave Jones: yeah, exactly. There's just these, these
missing, these misunderstandings and missed misdescriptions of of
the way these tags work. Don't do they don't help anything. No,
they really don't. They don't. They don't help anybody. They
don't help anything. I mean, if I would say that, if, you know,
I would say that if, if, if Listen, it sounds like what
they're doing is selling off some of their, you know, sort of
extraneous businesses that they had picked up over the past few
years, and they're concentrating, concentrating
back on their core hosting business, you know, I feel like
now is a great time for them to do these sorts of things,
because when you're caught, when you when you're when core, when
you're when, podcast hosting is your focus, the landscape has
changed in the last few years. If feature features really
matter, and the more you can put in there, the better. So, I
mean, I don't, you know, I don't think it makes any sense to sort
of like jettison any features just because you don't
understand. Just go read, go read about them, see what they
really and truly do. Get a get a podcast app, and play with them
with the features. And then you'll, you'll see that it's not
the person, the person tag is not the is not iTunes author.
They don't do the same. They're completely different. They don't
do the same thing. And the, you know, which is another
misconception that they had, the the the idea that, some of the
podcast, I heard this a lot, that the podcasting two point no
tags are reinventing things that already exist in the RSS feed.
In RSS, yeah, that where that happens. So let's discuss that
for a second, where there is overlap. We've and we've
discussed this before, many times where there is overlap,
it's for a couple of reasons, if no the first reason is that we
are trying to add features to namespaces that do not have open
governance, that would be iTunes, right? And things like
the media RSS, the media RSS namespace, the Dublin Core RSS
namespace. These are all namespaces that were invented
many years ago, more than a decade ago, and have long since
had their quote governing bodies or the people who control them,
they've gone away. Yeah, you can't modify those namespaces
because the spec is frozen. And this is the world again that we
came into with podcasting 2.0 there was no podcast specific
name space where the podcast industry, meaning the hosting
companies, the apps and the podcasters and everybody
involved, could have a voice in creating and changing. In the
spec in real time as a living document. That's what we're
doing. And so, because if you want to go back and and make a
modification to the way the i, if you want to make a
modification to the way the iTunes namespace tag works, one
of those tags, you can't, yes, it's not, your is. You can't
change that, right? It's Apple's discretion. They're the only
ones that can change it, and they don't play ball. So we do
things sometimes, like the like the season tag, the podcast
season tag is made to be perfectly backwards compatible
with the iTunes season tag, except it adds another attribute
for name, for naming a season, because that's what, because
people asked us for that specifically, NPR asked us to
build a tag that would do that specific thing, and we did. And
that is something that you will not get from a proprietary
namespace or a name space that who's dot, whose founding
document is dead, you can't do it that way. So where there's
overlap is for one of those two reasons, either it's proprietary
and you and you can't control it, or the governing body for it
is long gone and it's frozen now. What we have now is the
podcast namespace, known as podcasting 2.0 and you can as as
Lipson or or Pocket Casts, or Buzz sprout, or whoever you can
participate in the pro and true true fans, anybody you can
participate in the process, propose pull requests, propose
tags, do all that kind of stuff, and you can create the 2.0 that
you want.
Adam Curry: And everyone always seems to forget the podcasters.
You know, podcasters who really care about what they're doing,
really want to make it successful, need to understand
it's not a radio show. It's not a not just a YouTube thing. It's
an interaction with your audience. No agenda has just shy
of 900,000 unique audience members per month, according to
OP three, which is all I have to go on, and which I think is
pretty, pretty good. I love looking at my top Apps page,
Apple podcasts, and we're not even on Spotify. I refuse to
sign a contract to have my feed featured somewhere, so we're not
on Spotify. It didn't hurt us at all, by the way, 34% is apple.
Pod verse is number two. Then podcast attic, overcast, podcast
guru, Pocket Cast fountain, four and a half percent unknown Apple
app. Then antenna pod cast box, I guess we're in iHeartRadio, 1%
cast O Matic, and it goes on and on. You know the there is no
Spotify, and our measurement has always been, can I pay my rent?
Oh, we'd had a good month. Good shows. You know it that's that's
successful podcasting is we're talking about the features that
we have use the apps, please, that we recommend people will do
it. No app can force itself on people. It's not, that's not how
it works. No,
Dave Jones: and we can't force any. We can't force any of our
stuff on anybody. No, it's everybody's choice. There is no
stick. There's no there is absolutely no stick.
Adam Curry: There's no stick. There's no stick, man, it's
Dave Jones: just one giant carrot that's all that all
that's all there is. There's no stick. There's no string.
There's nothing there that I I don't blame, I don't blame
Marco. If I had gotten that call or that email from some, from
somebody wanting to, like, put a standard sticker on my app or
something like that. I get pissed off too. I mean, I
bristle at being told, what be at somebody being told, like,
feeling like I'm being told what to do. I get it. You know, I get
it. I hope that's not what happened, but that's the only
thing I can think of. But, but the other side of this. Let's,
let's talk about this, though, the other side of this, who has
a bigger stick us, or Apple and Spotify, right? I mean, their
stick is huge. They love sucking their stick. I mean, they've
got, they've got a tree trunk size stick that they're willing
to that they will hit anybody over the head with they, they
just up and say, you know, hey, here's what we're doing. You
either get on board or you can, you know, go pound sand. Yeah,
that's this. That's the stick. We don't have a stick. They do,
you know. And I know there's personal stuff going on here as
well. I mean, when you hear, when you hear people like. Dave
Weiner and Leo Laporte, you know, pooping all over
podcasting 2.0 those are personal issues. Yeah, they
don't, they don't like, you know, they don't like you or me
or both of us. Those are personal. They just don't say it
out loud. And, you know, James said that Rob doesn't like him
very much. And that may be the case there. So there may be some
of this stuff may be personal, and I can, I'm just gonna leave
that alone, and that's that's something that I don't want to
get into. But I hope, as far as you know, as for my biggest
concern is that P is that people were turned off by the Standards
Project talk, because that that was an it wasn't, I don't think
anybody intended to make anybody upset. No, I really don't know.
I don't I know everybody. We know everybody involved in
podcast editors project, no, that was never the intent. I
think
Adam Curry: it was some people just thought, Who made you the
boss of podcasting?
Dave Jones: Exactly, if you got a guy like Rob has been around
for 20 years in podcasting, he's probably going to get pissed off
because he's like, Hey, I've been here forever, you know.
Like, who are you? Like, nobody. Nobody gave you the, you know,
the ball as so anyway,
Adam Curry: can I play a song?
Dave Jones: Oh, well, we there yet? Yeah,
Adam Curry: okay, yeah, okay, well, I scoured the universe
known as the value verse, and which I love doing in the split
kit before every show. And this was just like, so bluesy.
There's some great horn in this. There's a lot of like that. It's
Cara Frazier boosted everybody. Let them know you heard about it
on 2.0
Unknown: to the days when we were young, when I was just a
girl and you were the boy next door, then you left this town To
make something yourself. Now they brought you back around.
Background, but don't put me on the shelf. I
Oh, oh, I wanna be
I don't you see your heart will I can't change your mind. Change
your mind. Just remember, I
give you a Man.
He will win
I wanna Be Oh.
Adam Curry: I want to be your woman. Cara Frazier, here in the
boardroom, if you are listening to this, get a modern podcast
app. Figure out how to use some of those sweet, sweet Satoshis.
Or find her website. Find her on wave Lake, whatever it is,
support these artists. And this is really my, my final point on
this. We did bands at Bitcoin, 1000s of dollars, went to the
artists who performed. I mean, some was it, Andy rock and roll
break hard, drove from Ohio to be there. Why? Because there
were enough people. There's enough people in the group, in
the community who want to show appreciation, who want to
deliver value when I do a boost to Grand Ball for a couple 1000
people, I don't care if I'm number one on the charts or so.
I don't care I'm there because I love what I do. I love my truck.
I love what I do. I love the fact that people can support
these artists directly through the modern podcast apps. That's
what it's about. The day the future of media is small. It's
very, very small. We're going to see many streaming companies
fold and go out of business because the ad based model is
not going to work for them. It's too expensive. You know, I think
I see shows going and maybe small production houses going to
their own systems, which are just their system for the people
that appreciate them. We are in a very painful birthing process,
but once you set your mind to it, like it doesn't matter. We
don't need to have streaming micro payments be the future of
media. There is no future of media. It's small, small. That's
what it is.
Dave Jones: I just, I mean, we, we had a discussion, like we
talked about earlier. We had a call with, with this, you know,
the CEO of of Lipson, and their lead developer, and I thought it
went great, and I hope we can, oh, we can have another call
with them at some point in the future when they're ready.
Because I think, I still think it's just a great idea for them.
And I think they're, I think they're talented, you know,
they, they don't, you don't last this long in this interest in
this industry, without being talented. And I think they have
a lot of, you know, I think they just got stuck in a lot of bad
situations over the years. And then they seem like they're,
they seem like they're coming out of that, which is what I
see. It seems like they're like they survived. They survived all
that, you know, all that trouble and financial nonsense. And I
think that now is probably a good time to to, you know, recon
order, and say, what are the features that our customers
would like the most? And, you know, I'm happy to jump on a
call with them anytime. I hope we can
Adam Curry: Well, unfortunately, I think what most of their
customers are looking for is the same. Is to say, I've been
around same thing we went through with blogging. How do I
make money with this? That's the number one feature, and that's
why there's they spent a lot of time, money and effort, as do
most people in the quote, unquote industry. Is, how do we
make advertising work? Well, guess what? There's too much
inventory. You can make as much inventory as you want. It's
irrelevant. You know, it's a race to the bottom of CPMs.
That's exactly what happened to banner ads. That's what happened
to blogs. You know, it's just going to keep happening over and
over again until we wake up and say, Oh, that's really not the
way forward. It's just not,
Dave Jones: you know, you know who so true fans is putting
their I don't know if you saw a sand post about their activity
pub server, they're about to launch that. Yes, that I'm like,
so I'm really stoked about that, by the
Adam Curry: way, just just looking at our numbers, true
fans has popped up all of a sudden. You really have you
noticed that?
Dave Jones: I haven't. I don't look out because
Adam Curry: we get a daily email it shows how many transactions
each app has done in 2.0 and Oh, that. Oh yeah. Good. Look. Yeah,
then I would say that many days true fans wouldn't even be on
there. So, I mean, I'm not sure. I think that they add 1%
Dave Jones: I'm not, I believe. So it's in the top five. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah. All of a sudden, true fans is popping up.
So something, something's happening over there. And I'm
delighted. I'm delighted with the with the activity pub
integrations. Great, good idea.
Dave Jones: Yeah, me too. And I think that like so that it fits
so well. I'm really eager to see what that looks like, because I
think it just that is a launch pad for cross app, comments,
everything. And, you know, I, I still hope to, at some point,
get time to to write some code that will pull this stuff out,
the stuff that's going on out of nostr, and then bring it, bring
it over to bridge all this stuff together so that we can so that
both, both sides of the coin can play nice with each other. Yeah.
And I think that true true fans is, I wonder if we need, I
wonder if we need to create something, some open source,
lightweight server code that will allow some that will allow
apps to implement this. Basically do what true fans is
doing with activity problems, activity streams like, because
essentially, what he's what they're doing is pushing out
like, as you do things in the app, they're creating an
activity stream feed, yeah, of actions you've taken, playing,
you know, liking an episode, Playing a episode, following a
podcast. All of these things are actions that they create a feed
off of that is you and you, you know, you can disable it the
activity stream, yeah. And you can keep that stuff private if
you want to, but, but, but you, if you make it public or not,
you choose the visibility. That's how that works. You
choose that visible it is. Well, I mean, if other apps want to do
that, and then they start, you know, maybe we should write,
like, an open source reference implementation for that sort of
activity, sort of like, or maybe, maybe it should be added
into something like, what's Andrew grumman's thing called,
it's not the wherever player. It's anywhere,
Adam Curry: anywhere. Got audio,
Dave Jones: yeah, but what's, what's his back end? Oh, the
proxy. Yeah, the proxy. What I can't I'm drawing a blank right
now. Anyway,
Adam Curry: his Andrew, Andrews yelling at his is, it's not
anywhere. It's not anywhere to audio player, but it's not
that's, that's not it either. Oh, I feel stupid now.
Dave Jones: It's, I thought it's where. It's wherever, not
anywhere, but, but, but the the proxy, I can't remember the
Unknown: name audio,
Dave Jones: but like it, maybe it could be plugged into that or
something. But I'm just because. What I'm just thinking is I
would love to have like the show umbilical, umbilical, umbilical,
thank you. That does not start with a P,
Adam Curry: nope. Not even close. I'll put it in the show
notes. Okay,
Dave Jones: so I would love being a custom addicts, my daily
driver. I would love for my cast O Matic, uh, activity, to just
go into a feed somewhere, to go, to go into an active my, my
activity, pub, feed, I wouldn't mind that at all. I would love
that. And then, because that's kind of like, uh, you know,
that's kind of, that's freedom controller.
Adam Curry: Ish, yeah, yes, it is. You're so right. It
Dave Jones: is, you know, because, because the idea, and
always in freedom controller was, as you're reading articles
and saving articles, it's creating an RSS feed that other
people can follow, so that they can follow along with what you
read. Yeah, and that's, that's the way this, the true fans
activity works, and I would love to have that in my podcast app.
And then, you know, because I found that I find the history of
what I do to be very valuable, because you like, you're trying
to remember something you listen to the other day. This is, yeah,
this is my,
Adam Curry: my daily driver, podcast guru has a bringing it
up now, has a couple of tabs, and one of them is playlist, and
it also has a history. And there's all kinds of stuff there
that I can Oh, yeah, I was listening. And, you know,
obviously it picks it right up where I left off listening. And,
yeah, it's very valuable, very valuable. And to be able to
share that, or have that in multiple places, or flow through
to something else, totally agree,
Dave Jones: yeah, yeah. And I think, I think that's so I'm
thinking about, you know, I'm thinking about that. I'm kind of
glad I did, kind of glad I didn't start working on the
nostr Bridge stuff yet, because. Because now I kind of want to
see what Sam did is, was Sam, what they built, and to be able
to know exactly like I want to, I want to make, make it work
well. And, you know, in addition to true fan, like true, you
know, Sam's always plowing forward with a million things,
but then, and, but I think blueberry also, you know, I got
mad respect for Todd. And then the guys at blueberry just
taking arrows in the legs all the time. You know, this many
hosts and apps, they take the safe approach, yeah, which
there's nothing wrong with. I mean, you, you they take, they
take a safer approach. But blueberry and true fans are just
slamming it. And sometimes they, you know, sometimes it's messy,
yeah, like, I mean, you know, blueberries getting a lot of,
you know, they're getting, having trouble with their
alternate enclosure stuff, but using YouTube, their YouTube
alternating closure playground thing, but that they're trying
new stuff, by
Adam Curry: the way. Sam, Sam, just boosted in and true fans
thought social is live. And I actually just sent him a toot.
Sam at true fans, thought social. I looked him up at
podcasting style social. Sam Sethi, there it is. Shows it
right there. Shows the four accounts, but you know,
including his threads. And
Dave Jones: if you go to true fans, dot social, just in the
web browser, what you get is hello world.
Adam Curry: It works. It's all you need. It's all you need. I
do, was
Dave Jones: it? Sam at true fans, yeah. Sam
Adam Curry: at true fans of social I did just want to, just
to follow on the advertising thing. I mean, I just, I have
visions about things, and I want to point out one thing are you
familiar with, to be,
Dave Jones: yeah, the ad supported movie thing, yeah,
which
Adam Curry: I think has the largest catalog of old stuff
available, which, of course, is very is much cheaper for them to
maintain. I hear rumblings that they expect their ad revenue to
drop by 50% five, zero, and we've already seen this
continuous race to the bottom, because everybody now has, you
know, we've gone from pay for streaming, oh, gee, yeah, it's
too expensive for people. Oh, gee, they just sign up and then
quit after a month, after they've binge watched everything
they want to. Oh, gee, that's not working. Let's bring back
ads. You mean, like television, yeah, like television, but now
you have too many channels with unlimited inventory. Unlimited.
It's not 24 hours in a day. No, it's unlimited. So there's no
way to put in scarcity. So it's going the way of banner ads. I
think the future Go ahead.
Dave Jones: I think just to add Ron, one real quick thing, I
think, I think there's a problem mentally with the advertiser as
well. When you have unlimited inventory, you don't know what
to even buy.
Adam Curry: No, well, there's a million dashboards and companies
who will help you.
Dave Jones: Yes, yeah, that there is of it. There is,
Adam Curry: for me, the future of advertising based income for
media properties is going to go back to the brands. You're going
to have, the dove Podcast Network, and they will hire and
fire shows, and they'll do deals with those shows. You'll have
the kibble and bits. Podcast Network, for dog food. You'll
have, you know, probably the the gold, you know, the buy my gold
coins Podcast Network. It's an obvious route. It's obvious and
you'll get all the numbers you need. You get to have control.
You get to know what people are doing. You get to select who you
want to be a part of, and you can very easily see who's
performing or who's not performing. That seems like a
logical next step for advertising based media in
general is, you know, the brands, Paramount, Disney, etc,
that's long term. There is just no long term future for that.
Even Disney can barely make it work, and they have the,
arguably the most valuable catalog in the world.
Dave Jones: There was a let's see,
Adam Curry: and then have one, one other tip. Tip, yeah, go,
go. If you're going to start a podcast, I would say the biggest
hole right now is geographic location. The. Do a podcast for
your city. Do a podcast for your town. Do a podcast that is
something in a geographic location because that is no
longer served by television, no longer served by radio, barely
served by local newspapers. That's where you can win. You
Dave Jones: let's see this was, this was a story from July 30,
and is saying in the point here is that the first party data.
The providers of streaming television that have access to
first party data are the ones that have generally the lowest
CPMs. Sure you know which you would think would be the other
way around. But it said uh, according to Advertising
Insiders, Amazon's move into the video ad market has already
forced rivals to lower their rates. One rival executive
mentioned Amazon's vast supply of inventory has pressured
prices lower. He said they knew what they were doing in terms of
flipping everybody over into their tier. Amazon converted
more than 200 million global subscribers to the advertising
tier, unless they opted out by paying for the premium ad free
service. This means the platform has one of the most massive
audiences to attract advertisers. Netflix, on the
other hand, has about 40 million on its ad tier. And so like they
it goes on to talk about how the CPMs are basically lowest
amongst those, amongst those like Amazon and Netflix, which
have the greatest access to the to the actual playing and
streaming data. You know, they're not depending on third
parties. And so this is this. This is exactly opposite of what
you would think it would be. Yeah. It says Yeah. The chief
executive, Andy Jassy, believes Prime Video can be a large and
profitable business on its own. So as the streaming wars
progress, Amazon's move into move to convert its entire Prime
Video subscriber base to a new ad supported version will be
enough to increase market share in the ad space, driving down
rage, which in turn crushes competition. So there is
basically, they're just, they're like, it's race to the bottom,
yes. And the way you handle that is by going as broad, as fast as
possible. You just have to kill everybody, because the only way
you're going to make money is by being the only player left.
Yeah.
Adam Curry: Yep. But okay, see, y'all a Podcast Movement,
Dave Jones: yeah, that's, that's, that's where, you know,
that's, that's the thing, you know, the this, the stick, the
stick carrot thing is, I think everybody with sticks is
probably a Podcast Movement. The people who are not there
probably don't have a very big stick. No, no, that you want to
talk about licenses real
Adam Curry: quick. Yeah, yeah, I saw that. You. You got that
fixed, added in the namespace, I believe.
Dave Jones: So. I think I'm almost done, but I need some I
need some help. I need people to look at this thing.
Adam Curry: This is the value for value license, yes, remote
item. Well,
Dave Jones: it's the whole shebang, okay, it's all the
license restructuring. So the we had the license tag, but it was
just like a free for all, with a whole humongous, like, 1000
license list that was main, this open source list that was
maintained. So James it said, you know, he had complained
about that bitterly a couple of times, saying that, you know,
it's just too much. I mean, there's licenses that have
nothing to do with podcasting anywhere in them that are in
that huge spdx list. And he was right. So what we, what I've,
what I've done is I've paired the list down, so there's now
the the original namespace, excuse me, the namespace XML and
s document is it now links to a licensed sub folder in the repo
with four files in it. Okay? One is just the overview, the
podcast license specification that just describes how the tag
works. The next file is a license, licenses, dot JSON
file. This is meant to be ingested by host by platforms,
so any, any hosting platform, should be able to ingest this
license and show it in like a drop down, where you can pick
what license you Oh, yeah, I
Adam Curry: see it. I see it. All rights reserve, Creative
Commons, yeah,
Dave Jones: and yeah, all right reserved. Is there almost? Is
there almost as a null value, because if you don't do
anything, what you get is all rights reserved. That's law,
right? But, but is there anyway, as, just like I said, like a
null value as the default. And so then you have creative, yeah,
Creative Commons. And then at the bottom, now you have
podcast, V for V license. That's what, that's what was, what is
new. And I also added a couple more properties. So each one of
the entries in the JSON file has a few properties. It's got the
name, the short name, the version of the license, a short,
a description, which is meant to just be a brief description of
what the licenses purpose is, whether it'll whether this
license allows for commercial use. And that's a Boolean. It
can be either true, false or false, oh, yeah, whether,
whether it requires attribution, and that can be either true,
false or and whether it allows derivative works, and that's
either true or false. And then there's a link to the actual
text of the license.
Adam Curry: So we have, was it 512345,
Dave Jones: yeah, yeah. So that's, that's what's in there.
So this is meant to be very much ingestible and parsable
programmatically, so that you can give you can build a UI off
of this. Then you have licensed slugs, which is just a quick
sort, which is just the the short names for each of the
codes for each of these licenses, again, which is you
can use that to validate your XML, because that's what's going
to go into the license tag in the feed. And then finally, you
have the V for v dash four.o.md, that which is very long. It is
very long. This is, this is the license that Julie sent me,
Yeah,
Adam Curry: I'm good with let me just scan. Yep, looks good to
me. It's like a EULA, yeah, I agree with that. That's fine,
yeah, Agree, Agree. Click, agree, yeah, it's good.
Dave Jones: So here's the, here's the help I need. I need.
I need somebody who knows about formatting and the layout of
like legal documents to look at that value for value license and
make sure, because what she sent me was marked it said, draft all
over it and ready. And so, like, I need somebody to check it out
and make sure that it's formatted correctly, that is
laid out correctly, and that it doesn't have any just like crazy
Adam Curry: stuff. What it does have, which I always love, is
there's one paragraph in here, paragraph 15, limitations of
liability. It's all caps. That always looks official, doesn't
it? Oh, it's all caps. That's, that's, that's how it's supposed
to be, because that's, you never read all caps. You don't read
it. That's why they put it that's why they put it in all
caps, remedy, yeah, don't, don't read this,
Dave Jones: except for any remedies that cannot be excluded
or limited by law, neither party nor any affiliate will be
allowable under the
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly, exactly the legalese that you
never can understand.
Dave Jones: So somebody needs to look at that and give me a heads
up on whether or not it's it's got horrible errors in it
because I don't even know what I'm reading. Yeah. Does the JSON
file work as as I've structured it? You know, the booleans and
all that kind of thing that, you know, somebody tell me if
there's if they think that that's not going to work or
needs to be changed. Does the list have enough coverage, like,
is there an there's five of the most common licenses from
Creative Commons in there, and from for podcast V, for V, is
there something I'm missing? Is there one that's obvious that I
didn't put in? Those are the types of things I need to know.
So if, if, if people want to help, check that out, give me
feedback, and let's make sure that this thing looks good, so
that by the end of this week, I can hit the formalize and go,
cool, cool.
Adam Curry: I guess the next thing we need to work on is
tags. Because I'm a little and I say this because I'm a little
confused. I thought we were going to where I thought at one
point we said, hey, let's do free form. Is free form now? No
longer in play. No, that's right. We're still doing that.
Okay? Because I keep getting people pointing me to a list.
Dave Jones: Well, see that's, that's the thing is, there's
going to be the list is going to be, there's going to be a seed
list for initially, okay, off of a, off of a taxonomy. And then I
think, I think, I think Sam's got that right now, there's
gonna be an initial list based off of a of a taxonomy. Then we,
like, that's then what? Then it's just a free for all after
that, okay? And we'll, we'll, we'll see what's being used, and
then update the list in the future, going forward, just to
give, like, a. If 1000s and 1000s of people are using a
particular tag, and it's not in the list, and it needs to be in
the list, right? Got it? So we'll just update the list.
Adam Curry: Okay, cool. And then hopefully a lot of that will
flow through to and from the activity. Pub,
Dave Jones: yeah, yeah, you would hope so they just become,
they just become hashtags.
Adam Curry: Nice, yeah. So,
Dave Jones: yeah, I think so the license thing, and then we're
gonna boot authorization to the to phase eight, key send
address, yeah, keys, so key send address, I need to finish.
That's mostly finished. I just need to,
Adam Curry: yeah, there was some confusion over on the value for
value telegram group. I'm sure not everybody joins the board
room every Friday. But yes, there is a proposal to add
lightning addresses as an option for sending value. And yes, it
will work with splits, etc. And just to remind everybody, the
reason behind it is so that apps who don't want to manage hubs et
cetera, or have their customers manage their own stuff, we'll
just be able to use APIs such as those from initially strike in
future, maybe Cash App or whatever other apps come online.
So it's a very simple I like strike a lot. You can still for
the simple reason, if it's just an API and you get your strike
wallet, you put dollars in there, you can send dollars.
Yeah, I still think, yeah, we should. For newbies, it's better
to be using dollars. I mean, we don't have to explain the whole
Bitcoin thing. We don't have to. And moving forward, that seems
to be and we'll make room there, of course, for bolt 12 when it
comes along. So these are all just all options, and everything
else will be backwards compatible.
Dave Jones: And you know, Eric PP said is key send address
separate from the wallet stuff Huskers working on Yes, yes, it
is. So the key send address is a spec change in the value block.
And then what Oscar is working on is a demo, a demo, a demo web
app of how OAuth, OAuth integration from a podcast app
to your strike wallet would work. And we didn't hear
Adam Curry: back from the what's the outfit name, Zebedee. We
didn't hear back from those guys. Never I
Dave Jones: haven't heard from them. The lady I talked to it in
Nashville, she said that she listens to the show, so I was
hoping she would contact me, because I never got an email
from her. But holding out, get my got my fingers. Fingers
crossed, yes.
Adam Curry: Should we thank some people? Yeah, yeah. Let's think
so. As we mentioned at the top of the show, the whole index
project is value for value. If you get any value out of the
services we provide for free, then support us. That'll keep it
going for for a long, long time. Everything stays within the the
index, LLC, Adam and Dave. Take nothing out of it. What are you
doing? What are you throwing around there?
Dave Jones: No, I'm shifting in my shifting in my seat. We did
Adam Curry: get a couple of boosts that we want to talk
about that came in live. And of course, you can do that with a
modern podcast app in many different places. Podcast
apps.com Sam Sethi just boosted with 100 sets. If a podcast does
not have a copyright in the feed, we that would be true.
Fans add a default year name, and we add all rights reserved
if no license makes sense. So that's the default Yes. Roved
ducks from Martin lindisco. Hyper local podcasts have become
pretty popular in Scandinavia. Great suggestion. Adam, all the
best. There you go. Hyper local. I like it. 1776 from Martin
Linda's Coke, which is the freedom boost I says. I started
blogging in 2002 in order to spread better ideas, not to earn
money. But I had some advertising with blog ads,
pajamas, media, and my own ad banner for sponsors I knew liked
and trusted. My blogging got me in touch with other bloggers,
and I've had freelance gigs as a guest blogger for moderator,
etc. I'm open for new opportunities. Best premises,
Martin linsko, we have once told Kyle who boosted 777 for I want
to be your woman. And he says, getting some Christina Aguilera
vibes off of this one good song. Cole McCormick, say,
Dave Jones: Well, you were right. You were right. There
was, there was a lot of horn in that song.
Adam Curry: Horn is beautiful.
Unknown: Oh, my God,
Adam Curry: listen to that horn. Yeah, baby, it's good horn. Sam
also just boosted again, another 1000 SATs. Oscar. I are meeting
in London while everyone is in Washington to discuss working
together using activity. Pub, nice. The unconference, the
uncon That's right, unconference the then we have Cole McCormick
rove ducks, 2222 Wow. This song is incredible. This moment just
brought a burst of inspiration for a new podcast. Wow. All
right, Cole, whoa, let us know. Boy. Steam Berger, 777, great
song, great voice. Heard it on podcasting, 2.0 thank you for
boosting her. D's laughs. Nice song, 123, 2112, from Martin.
Linda Coke, how do I update the funding tag? Is it at the
dashboard on Captivate FM and pod home.fm, that would be good
to have a donation page with several options, ie PayPal, buy
me coffee, get Albie, lightning address, etc, for my podcast,
yes, I have it in sovereign feeds, and you can add multiple
blocks or multiple places. So I don't know about Captivate or
the other ones. I would hope all of them have. It seems like an
easy one.
Dave Jones: Let me do this. Let me check the Apps page. There
Adam Curry: you go. App page. I'll keep reading triple seven
from D's laughs, as long as I can pay my rent here in Toronto,
I'll keep boosting how beautiful brother. Thank you. Once told
Kyle another triple seven love how you guys always take the
high road. Is there any other road, really, than the high
road. Triple seven from D's last love the conversation, salty
crayon with 1111, howdy boardroom. If Oscar is
listening, can he bring back podcasting? 2.0 booster grams
from other podcasting, two apps. I remember, when doing the I am
Texas slim podcast, we used to be able to see booster grams
from other apps inside the activity feed. And it did indeed
show up, what app it came from, in my opinion, that should help
boost the signal on fountain, where, instead of fountain, only
inside the perimeter of booster, grams in the pipe, go
podcasting. I think what happened there is the, you know,
they changed their back end, and you have to make sure that you
are using the new boost bot. I think it still works. Okay, add
boost bot, and then it will show up in the fountain. The their
their feed of boosts. Chad F 1776 Thank you, Chad, you sent
that twice, actually. Well, there's another Martin. Linda
Coke, I have 2222 I have now sent booster grams and stream
SATs with POD verse and podcast Guru, I am now listening on the
podcast index site as my phone, iPhone 6s plus, had issues with
the Wi Fi connection. Next time I'll send a booster gram with a
progressive web application. True fans. Martin Luther Coke,
supporter of the podcasting 2.0 initiative. You need a badge
that says that.
Dave Jones: Love it. 2100
Adam Curry: from Macintosh. This week, I was listening to a
podcast that I only listened to off and on. It had five minutes
and 50 seconds of ads to begin the show. It was maddening. A
simple 32nd ask for V. For V is so much more a carrot than that
awful stick. Oh, here's Sam 1000 SATs Rob, I'm presuming means
Rob Walsh was invited, and he walked out of the meeting and
the podcast Standards Project our meeting in Washington to
decide if they want to put real money behind promoting
podcasting 2.0 or not. I can't do my evangelist role with no
marketing budget. Well, there you go. Thanks for the update. I
wonder why Rob walked out of the meeting. It's, it's worth going
up and say, Hey, man, what's up? What's up? Can we invite him on
the show? Is that a weird thing, Dave?
Dave Jones: I mean, I'm fine with it. Yeah. So we had, we've,
we've had people that disagree with us on the show before. We
had brown Barletta on the show, yeah, and
Adam Curry: they're dead. Now,
Dave Jones: Brian's not dead. Oh, I'm sorry.
Adam Curry: Just kidding, Brian.
Dave Jones: Listen, don't think he is. No,
Adam Curry: I hope not. I hope not. 2100 from Macintosh had
listened to the Libsyn promo podcast earlier this week. Let
me put the N, a set. Let me put pull the NA saying from Bitcoin.
What that is podcasting 2.0 doesn't lib send Libsyn will
need podcasting 2.0 at some point. Don't sweat it. We really
don't need Libsyn. And one day they will come around, or they
will die off, go podcasting. I don't know. Maybe it's, I don't
think it's a do or die thing. Don't 2500 from Matt podcasts,
he says, and he's from truth boosting from true fans. Yep, I
find it funny that no credit is paid to podcasting 2.0 by a
group of insiders that bend the knee to closed source solutions
while Apple showed them. They are our biggest ally in adopting
a podcasting 2.0 standard by transcripts tag. Will any of
them at least say thanks? Well, I'm okay. I don't need, I don't
need to hear thanks. I'm I'm good. I've said
Dave Jones: it before the the podcast industry. What? But
podcasting was born in open source, but then quickly it just
went, it became closed source, and it lived in that world for,
you know, a decade, 17 years. Oh, yeah, longer even Yes, in
law, yeah, a long time. And then in it, when we when we came
along. It took a couple of years for people to in the podcasting
world to become comfortable with the with the idea of releasing
their ideas and their code in public. I just don't think, I
think it was just something that had not it's an ethos, it's a
it's an attitude, and I just don't think that was part of the
conversation, no, and so now, but now, now it's common. I
mean, now, I mean, I think I really, if there's anything we
if there's anything I can hang our hat on that, I think that we
had an impact on it, more than just any sort of like spec or
features. I think it's changing the culture and the conversation
around open source within podcasting. Yes, I really think
that that. I think we did have an effect on that, and I think
podcasting is better for it.
Adam Curry: I hope so. I hope so.
Dave Jones: Because, I mean, I'm looking at, you know this, I'm
looking at the Apps page, by the way, Captivate does support the
funding tag. I'm looking at the Apps page, podcast
index.org/apps, just look at all. I mean, it is ridiculous.
How many? How many true fans? Cast garden, blueberry, power
press pod home, sovereign feeds, pod verse, podcast guru, RSS,
blue, rss.com, fountain, cast a pod. Captivate, once told.
Podcast mirror, peer to pod friend, just cast dino.fm, ln
beats, podcast addict, curio caster, split kit, transistor
dystopia, vodio music side project, Buzz, sprout podcast,
see podcast chapters, my web blog, pod page, podcast, AI MP,
dot money, cast, O Matic, fireside prodigy, seriously
simple podcasting, metacast, Caproni, pod station, breeze,
anytime. Podcast, player, pod, LP, red circle. Podcast page.io,
Alito, pine pods, castos. Pod, love three, speak IPFS,
podcasting, Sphinx, antenna. Pod Ivy, dot, FMT, tsec, dob, hub,
hop hopper. Pod, news, boost, CLI, focus. Podcast, eye
catcher, pocket, cast Odyssey, Lipson has locked in.
Transcript, text, hyper catcher. Pod, news, directory. Pod,
serve, Plink. Pod, browser, value for value. I mean, it just
keeps going and going and going. There's a million P I mean,
this, it's not, this is not just a tiny, this is not just a tiny
thing anymore. I mean, you, really have to, I think this is
what Todd was saying on new media show this week, is you
sort of have to decide what you're going to do at this
point. Yeah,
Adam Curry: it's a lot of fun in this sandbox. And we share our
toys. You can use my shovel, my
Dave Jones: bucket, talk a truck
Adam Curry: 8888 from once told Kyle riding the lightning as you
guys fist your nuts and teach American history. I'm five
episodes in on my V for V music podcast flow. Nar, with the G,
F, l, O, W, g, n, a, r, and having fun making mountain
biking sound tracks. Meanwhile, have a great weekend. Get
yourselves out into the back country and F that sinking ship
called the SS libs in now, now, now, now, now, settle down. Now,
now, now, go podcasting and another Martin Linda's coke.
Dave, cheers, enjoy your Sam Adams beer. Great sandwich
illustration, Adam, have you visited Berkeley plantation
history of the first Thanksgiving in Virginia? No, I
haven't it's on the list now, though, Liberty boost 1776
Satoshi is best premises Martin Linda's covid podcast was since
2006 1776 from Chad. F7, 777, from chat F, let's lift those
spirits. I was, I played a real bummer song in the pre, the pre
in the pre show, yeah. The suicides, yeah. 11,111 from
Martin Linda Coke, this time from pod verse. Podcasting, 2.0
sticks. I like carrots. Listen to episode 247, of the feed
podcast by Elsie and Rob. I'm glad that they read Brian's
email. Go podcasting, Martin Linda Coke, using pod verse. And
thank you to Dr Scott for the 4567, the boosted MC boost test,
making sure it all worked and it did indeed. And I've hit the
delimiter, Dave, who do you have on your list?
Dave Jones: See, we've got, we already read the read the one
offs. So we've got, let me flip here. Got some booster grams got
gene B in 2222 through cast O Matic. He says, pure curiosity.
Dave, how come you shuttled a clip to Adam instead of playing
it yourself through the rodecaster?
Adam Curry: Well, that's a good question.
Dave Jones: Well, yeah, but here's. The issue Linux. I'm on
Ubuntu as my desktop for my podcast rig, and Linux does not
recognize both inputs from the rodecaster.
Adam Curry: If I can say something about that for a
moment, but I had a so Dvorak sent me a link to a YouTube
video, and he says, Did you know this was going on? Say, Yeah,
since 2015 then what it was is Apple is deprecating their
lightning, I think it's called lightning. Was that their cable?
Their lightning cable? Yeah. So they're deprecating that
support, which you're they're taking the code out of their
drivers in the new in their newest operating system. And
what it's done is it's really screwing up a lot of studio
people who have bought gear based upon lightning support,
which I guess is supposed to work with Thunderbolt. But Apple
is just saying, Nope, no more software, all kinds of things
and, and I said, Well, you know, I switched from, I was a Mac guy
since my apple too, you know, so I've been an Apple guy for all
my life. And then they started screwing around with USB, and
the USB wasn't working, right? And I saw the writing on the
wall. I said, they don't really care. That was the same time
they came out with Final Cut Pro X, which was a nightmare, coming
from seven to nine. They completely changed the
interface, and it made it just like, What have you done here?
So you either had to work with deprecated OSS, try and go ahead
and try and buy a new Mac and deprecate it down to older OS.
It's lots of fun. Some people are trying to hack the drivers.
And I really, I hate to say it, but this is, this is what we do
not have drivers for high end gear on Linux, and it's because
there's collusion of planned obsolescence between companies
like Apple and the software and hardware companies, they want
people to continuously upgrade, and it's built in obsolescence,
and they just will not. If they made any company that makes
drivers available for Linux, I suggest they will win, because,
man, I would be on linux in a heartbeat like, oh, okay, buy
Windows, but they won't do it because it's built into their
business model at this point. And so we basically all get
screwed, and I just don't think we're ever gonna see Linux
drivers for modern devices ever. They just won't do it. They're
too closely tied in to all these other companies. And
Dave Jones: there's there. I mean, it's, it does not work. I
mean, I've tried. I've gone down the rabbit hole of audio forums
where people are trying to, you know, they're like, Okay, get in
here and edit this config file. And it's like, oh, you need to
switch from, you need to switch to, you know, to also yes or
whatever.
Adam Curry: Okay, it's Dave at podcast index.org, email him
with all your solutions, because I've been down this hole many
times, and people keep emailing me. I have no problem. You have
no idea what you're talking about. It doesn't, it doesn't
work. It
Dave Jones: doesn't work. It doesn't, it does not work. I've
tried it all. I spent hours on this thing, and the only reason
I don't switch it to Windows on this rig is because I just, is
because it's running my lightning node. Yeah, and I love
the Ubuntu interface. I love the desktop so, you know, and I'm
comfortable in Linux, so I just, I don't know, I'm, I'm willing
to I'm willing to offload my work to Adam to keep my own
comfort, and Adam
Adam Curry: is willing to take on your load. I'm 15. I can't
help it.
Dave Jones: More. Horn Chiron, for the mere mortals. Podcast,
2222 through fountain says this is why I advocate for multiple
nodes for redundancy. I can get my boost data from fountain,
Satoshis, dot stream and Alby, no boosts will be lost on my
watch.
Adam Curry: The Minute Man,
Dave Jones: call me straight. Oh, wait, wait, let me make
sure. When do we? Do we miss the
Adam Curry: that was the delimiter. Oh, did Sir, did
Dave Jones: you get sir, Bill's 10,000 SATs, boosting that sweet
sequel? Talk,
Adam Curry: I did not.
Dave Jones: Well sir, Bill boosted 10,000 SATs and said,
boosting that sweet sequel. Talk,
Adam Curry: nice.
Dave Jones: They said, Gene bean, 2222 he says, I agree with
on the UID two stuff, but thought it would be worth
mentioning that there is actually quite a bit of
attribution in TV ads, like the visa wonder in the Olympics,
thanks to smart TVs and set top boxes. In many cases, you and
your neighbor will get a different ad because of this
stuff. It's seriously creepy.
Adam Curry: Oh, you have no idea. I mean, when you have
someone visit. In your home, if they, if they connect to your to
your Wi Fi network, it's great, because then all of the things
that you're doing on YouTube and Facebook all connect all of a
sudden, if you're not friends with that person, they'll pop up
as a friend potential. Even proximity between people always
say, well, they're listening to my phone. No, no. You were
talking to your girlfriend about handbags, and she's been looking
at handbags. And then your phones got close together. And
then there are advertising companies that you can go to,
and they'll give you this full spectrum, and it will determine
what ads you're seeing on television. Roku is amazing at
this. I mean, then go ahead and put a network sniffer on your
Roku and pick up the remote. The minute you pick up the remote,
it's sending off all kinds of data somewhere. We got a love
one, yeah, it's right. We got some. That's it's like political
ads. I mean, the biggest mistake you can make of text messages
that are political is saying stop, because the minute you say
stop, you get five more messages from different phone numbers.
It's the worst. Don't ever click on one of those links, either.
That's horrible.
Dave Jones: And that's like, don't ever click the unsubscribe
link on the bottom of a spam mail Exactly, yeah, just because
they just use that to determine whether you actually have a live
account. If you're
Adam Curry: alive, yeah, if you're a human, oh, well, I
didn't want this one. I'll send them that one. Yeah, it's the
worst. Yes, yes, that's your attribution. It's everywhere.
And now your car, yeah, your car will, your car is sending it
forward, I think, is known now that it's sending off your
driving habits so that winds up somewhere and your insurance
rates go up. Not my Ford, I know I'm very, very jealous of your
Ford. Your Ford is great, not great on the air conditioning or
the sound system, but otherwise not private,
Dave Jones: very private as I sweat my balls off into Alabama
heat
Adam Curry: with your eight track.
Dave Jones: There is no radio at all. Uncut. Who uncut? Uncut,
baby, Sir Brian of London, 11, 948, to cast O Matic. He says,
You don't waste no time at all. Don't hear the bell, but you
answer the call. It comes to you as to us all, yeah, we're just
waiting for the hammer to fall. Yeah, yo. He
Adam Curry: made a rhyme or two. Very nice, cool cat that Brian
of London
Dave Jones: and the commissary ball. Your delimiter? 26,000 SAS
through fountain. He says, howdy, Dave and Adam. I'd like
to recommend another great podcast about podcasting, the
pod master. Use no space between pod and master to find in apps
or take from URL, www.podmastery.co,
parentheses.co. Not.com. Close parentheses.
Unknown: Quote,
Dave Jones: I'm the pod master here to help you with podcasting
growth, advice and insights, whether you're a brand or an
individual who's looking to grow your podcast and attain pod
mastery. My name is Neil veglio, and I've been in the podcasting
game since 2001 in quote, yo, CSB, 2001
Adam Curry: Oh, okay, that's interesting.
Dave Jones: That's that we
Adam Curry: didn't have the podcasting.
Dave Jones: It's well that was in the room with you and day
one. Well, the
Adam Curry: enclosure existed, that's for sure. Did that?
Dave Jones: When did the enclosure comes that 2001 2000
Adam Curry: 2000 Yeah, became an early adopter. He jumped on
board. He did. He did. All right, nice, sweet. Any
monthlies?
Dave Jones: We got some monthlies we got, by the way, Dr
Scott, thank you brother. Dr, sent me personally to my strike
account, 82,023 SATs. And he says, wow for your audiobook
project. Oh,
Adam Curry: how sweet. Yes, thank
Dave Jones: you. That's what? 100 bucks. That's beautiful. Is
that $100 84,000
Adam Curry: 82,000 that's a lot of SATs, brother, oh, it's
Dave Jones: a lot of SATs. Yes, yeah, that's great. Thank you.
Dread that shifting bucks. I
Adam Curry: think it's 50 bucks. 50 bucks. Yeah, nice
Dave Jones: letter. Cover my hosting calls because I was
saying how didn't thank you. Terry Keller, $5 Chris Cowan, $5
silicon florist, $10 Derek J visker, the best name in
podcasting. $21 Damon, Casa Jack, $15 Paul Saltzman, Hey,
Paul. $22.22 yarn. Rosenstein, $1 Jeremy gerds, $5 Michael
Hall, $5.50 New Media Productions, that's Todd and
Rob, $30 Thank you Rob and Timothy voice, $10 and that's
our group.
Adam Curry: Thank you all so much for supporting us. It's
highly appreciated you're supporting. Really the podcast.
Index.org, podcast index, dot social. And of course, you are
always motivating us to talk more about podcasting. On this
weekly podcast, everything stays on the note. If you need a
channel, hit me up. Happy to open one for you. Everything
stays in the bank account, which we use to keep this thing going
for as long as we can if it's of any value to you, send some
value back time, talent, treasure. We accept it all.
Podcast index.org, use a modern podcast app to boost us. We love
that. The more you boost, the higher we are in those fountain
Top 10 charts, which I like because it's another marketing
opportunity. People see that like, Hey, look at those guys. I
wonder what that podcast is. And of course, there's a big red
donate button there, which takes you right to our PayPal. Or in
the modern podcast app, look for that little dollar sign or some
other value funding Tag button. It's different on every single
one of them. We need a universal button for that. I think
Dave Jones: we need a t shirt in the in the no agenda shop. This
is podcasting 2.0 all carrot, no stick.
Adam Curry: Yeah, now you're talking, you can hit that. It'll
take you right to the PayPal page as well. And thank you all
so much. Thank you boardroom. Good to see you here. Hello,
sir. TJ, the raffle just just entered. So yes, Sup, bro. And
thank you for everybody who has been a part of this today and a
part of the project. Brother, Dave, have yourself a great
weekend, my friend. You
Dave Jones: too. I got two Boston butts on the smoker right
now. We're gonna chow down today. Yeah,
Adam Curry: chowing down is the best part of the weekend. We'll
be back next Friday with another board meeting of podcasting. 2.0
Take care, everybody. Bye, bye. Guys
Unknown: are cool. You have been listening to podcasting? To
point oh, visit podcast index.org for more information.
Go podcasting.
Adam Curry: It's for freedom. You.