podcasting 2.0 for January 8 2021, this is Episode 19.
We're scaling up yet again,
another Friday.
We have a full quorum, that's two out of three. And it's good
to be a podcaster. Adam Curry here in Austin, Texas. And I
present to you the man who can explain podcasting to for no
with far less hype than myself. Jones
I'm assuming you're referring to my recent interview in the
podcast Business Journal,
yes, but
podcast Business Journal, spotlight, hello, spotlight.
It was somehow I managed to get the word Pornhub. In
fact, they really appreciated that
this should be a boost bounty of 1000 SATs every single time
someone uses Pornhub in an interview, that's a very good
idea.
In retrospect, maybe not the best example.
But what's interesting is, you know, I know the story. And I
know you've heard me tell it a million times I saw and I was
really enjoying really loving how, first of all, and I said
this to you privately, man, you got a great voice when you're
just Dave Jones. Well, let me tell you how all this works, you
know. And you have these thoughtful pauses between you
know, the question and the answer. I'm a little envious.
It's just not me. So I can never do that. But you're very good at
and you're enjoyable to listen to. I was like, But Dave Jones
just read the phone book to me.
It's my stage persona as
well. Your stage persona kicks ass.
was good, though.
You did a really good job of it. I enjoy I enjoyed it. Yeah, it
was really good.
He has an easy interview. I think we should be called
experts. At this point in time when we get interviewed. I mean,
like any, anytime in the media, somebody interviewed, they just
say, you know, like, whatever experts.
Yeah, right. Right. Right. Sources sources familiar with
the industry?
Yeah.
I'm sorry. Experts familiar with the industry. Yeah, that'll
right.
podcasting experts, Dave Jones and Adam Curry. j. Jones. Oh,
Paul, man, so much is going I want to get them something out
of the way right off the bat. Because I feel a little bad
about something. I mean, not really. But I just want to set
the record straight. Not with you. We're all good brother. No,
Rob Greenlee of Lipson who had told me privately that Lipson
was going to support the podcast index. namespace. And that kind
of spun out into something which I was like, Wow, what's going on
here? Yeah. And I asked him said, Can I can I say this
publicly? He hadn't replied to me. And then I heard him mention
it himself on the new media show. And I mean, it he said it
and so I brought it up when we were talking to James Cridland.
And then, but but I think the headline is kind of what, what
made this a little weird is because I don't think even in
his private message to me, he was like, yeah, we're gonna
support this. We got a lot going on. And that's kind of what I
hear his answer was when he was queried about this. Well, we're
not, you know, we got a lot going on, we got a new
interface, you know, we support the index, but it was, I think
it was pushing back on the idea that they were gonna put their
head down and, and go work on it. And, and it kind of spun
into it. And I just feel there's a rift here, which is
unnecessary, because just wording and it's, in a way it's,
you know, it was kind of a headline thing that that spun
this a little bit out of control. So
yeah, Rob Rob didn't have the best day yesterday. I don't
think
no. And there's one other thing, because I've been following this
change at the Board of Governors the What's it called? The RS?
Oh, no. The podcast Academy. Yeah. And which I've not I don't
think I've been a member. I think maybe it was a member. I
don't know. I don't know exactly what it does. But I've never
know what you're a member of and what you're not. I don't I am a
member of the Hair Club for men. if that helps. Yeah. throwback,
throwback, everybody. At none. Earlier sighs Sperling. He
passed away this past year, I think. Yeah, what a great, great
pitch, man, great, great company. I mean, I'm reliably
informed you. So I'm not
going to see
the RSS Academy or the podcast Academy. it you know, wants to
be some kind of governing body, which is, it's kind of weird
when you think about it. Because, you know, no, just like
no person is the same. No podcast is the same. We see the
index. Yeah, it's a very diverse universe across the world. And
the main thing is kind of these techniques issues which we just
grabbed and ran with. And all of a sudden you see the spark and
people like, well, if these guys just say an effort, let's do it.
Let's all jump on board. And, you know, so now we're scaling.
And this is, and this is very nice to see. I just wanted to
give a word, a word of warning, because when I heard that, and
I'm not quite sure what happened over there, the Academy, and
then it was Rob was stepping down. And somehow someone said,
Oh, no, we're replacing him, which is like, if you're
replacing someone, someone who's done a service, and then you
want to, you know, you want to let some people off the hook
nicely. You know, he's stepping down, let him step down. It was
shitty move. And I'm gonna tell you right now, what's coming
with this board of governors because I was listening to very
interesting podcasts. I can't remember. Damn, I wish I
remember what it was short one about about podcasting. And they
are adding del Rey McKesson to the Board of Governors. Yes,
I noticed that, that stood out to me to you.
And del del Rey McKesson. I know from one of the earlier mo facts
with Adam Curry shows, this guy is a serious activist. And but
and you know, Black Lives Matter, okay, but he's from
Black Lives Matter, Inc, he's from the the money side, and
this guy is going to i, i predict, he's going to cause a
lot of ruckus, and people are going to be so worried about
things that really don't pertain to the issues that podcasting
has. I prefer to make podcasting more open and more diverse for
everybody by fixing the actual infrastructure and what needs to
be done between development and development. And this feels to
me like you're gonna get a top down nasty ass push, and it's
gonna be about the unions, and it's just, it's gonna ruin and
I'm just saying, This is my experience. I don't know Dell,
right, McKesson, I only know what what has been discussed
about them. And what I've read. just seems like that's going to
be a big pain in the ass. And I think that I think it's a big
mistake. I think whatever they're doing that this this is,
this is not going to turn out well.
Yeah, it's funny. I don't know much about the podcast Academy.
But I don't think there's a lot of question marks about what
actually mean, other than the ones that do the Emmys? Like the
award? I don't I
really don't know. They did the, at some point, I thought the pot
they did the there was a podcast awards that they did. And then
it was the podcast or Hall of Fame? And I don't know, I really
don't know, I have no idea. It's just a different approach a
different set of philosophies there. Because we like if if
you're trying to this is this goes back, I think to our
problems with with all and why we've done things the way we've
done it is the problems with standards bodies and working
groups, and 501, c threes and all this kind of stuff. I mean,
like, if if the answer to the problems with diversity and
equality and these kinds of things, is just putting somebody
on the board, a different person on the board of your nonprofit.
I mean, that's just me, doesn't change anything. It doesn't
really change that isn't actually changed. boots on the
like the way things are on the ground.
It's also not it's not a problem. There's no problem with
anybody, anybody can start a podcast, it's open to all that
this is this is what's insane to me. Now, if you want to be on
Spotify, or highlighted on Spotify. Yeah, I can see people
going after that. Oh, you only highlighted three black
podcasters Oh, the white ones. Yeah, it's like, that's the shit
they're gonna do. It's unproductive, I think
unproductive?
Yeah, that's the I don't understand what the mean, I
guess just understand what the top down approach does. And
we'll see what it gets you other than just like some news
releases and that kind of thing. Yeah, some piece and press and
press and stuff. Yeah. But then at the end of the day, I mean,
like, you really have to help people. I guess it would be more
impressive if to me if if there's going to be like a
political approach to this thing, which who knows what this
will be. But I mean, if it's going to be sort of a political
thing, it will be more impressive to me if they if he
had somebody that said we're going to start we're going to
start this other organizations that is going to actually help
bring in give grants and that kind of thing, like putting
money where your mouth is and actually help get those things
started rather than just pressuring from it it seems like
it's going to end up being if it plays out that way as a
political organizing type. pressuring somebody pressure
group ad advertising pressure curtain? Yeah. Yeah, it's
because and that's kind of why it always is
that will implode it will implode it man, it's just not a
smartwatch. Anyway, I just want to say I like Rob Greenlee. This
from this point on, when Lipson starts implementing the
namespace, we'll know we've achieved success. So now we have
a marker, you know, it's like I'm okay with it. I really I
just ate and I wanted to quit. Any like oh Lipson sucks cuz
they got they got all kinds of stuff going on over there
everybody has stuff going on
so and they seem to really be they seem to really be focused
on that new version of their their Lipson Sheriff and all
this I think they're I think they're very busy right now
but if we achieve enough scale where their clients or customers
are saying hey, we want these tags to implement them that's it
so and and I love what Cridland does Cridland was absolutely
right to report this, you know, but he reports it like a
reporter, which is why you listen to it nuanced in
everything, but yeah, yeah, I agree. Rob probably didn't have
a good day.
Yeah, there's a lot a lot of blood Oh, wait, I said this. But
wait, wait acid, this laser, so much backtracking yesterday,
kinds of things. Now
we have an exciting guest we're going to bring in in a moment.
One of the podcasting 2.0 developers who's been using the
podcast I think started when, when when we popped up, he
popped up pretty quickly. And keep it keep it a secret no
surprise for now. I just wanted to touch briefly on what we're
doing with the lightning payments. So people kind of have
an idea of where we're at.
We can't we cannot talk stats. No, no, we can't talk stats, and
the Dred Scott told me straight up the last episode,
so it was hard. Yes, it was hard, man I but I appreciate it.
Dred Scott, who you'll find a podcast index dot social, was
also doing the chapter markers and images for for everything I
produce, I think, but certainly for this podcast, we appreciate
it. It shows the power of podcasting 2.0 we have the the
listener is participating in the process. It's very, very
enjoyable. And I love it, because I'm like, oh, what did
he choose? You know, what did he find important, it's fun to see.
So where we're at right now is we have still a incredibly
successful proof of concept with Sphinx chat. Sphinx is having
some, just some routing and some issues itself. I mean, this is
all pretty new. And we all of a sudden, we we dropped in, you
know, an additional 14 to 20,000 transactions a month that that
everyone's dealing with, which is, you know, quite excessive
use, compared to what anyone has seen. In the lightning network.
We really hijack their whole their whole thing for
clogged up channels, everything real money was flowing, you
know, real money's flowing. But paulito has been fantastic. He's
been helping everybody. And the main thing we're waiting on is
some scale, we'd like to show more people have more people see
it. And there's, we've been working Dave and I've been
working on a couple other ways to to get this going with some
other players in the market. So you know, we've there's
graham@voltage.io very excited about working with him because
we have a specific way of putting a new proof of concept
into place you want to talk about that real briefly because
I think it's this is probably the the most exciting
progression we've had of this system with the value for value
pledge model.
What do you what do you want me to talk to you specifically
like,
Well, I'll tell you what I think we're gonna do with him and then
maybe you can fill in the missing bits and and the
technical information.
Okay, yeah, cuz I think it's gonna be if I'm not mistaken, it
may end up being similar to what? pod station and Gilman
gear gear man. Man, I can't I struggle to say his name. With
what? With what he's doing with you know, he when he showed his
proof of concept, right talking? Yeah, cuz
he he all sudden popped up. And there he is. He's like, Oh,
look, watch this. Hold my beer boys.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I think so he has a way of Well, anyway, I'll tell you what
my the wireframe of the idea is you have any podcast This is
it's all working. This is the future. Do you have any podcast
app, and you hear your favorite podcasts that you're listening
to host say, hey, join the pledge model. Look at your
podcast app right now. And there's a little a little icon
and it's for the pledge and you hit that and up pops a Hey, do
you want to have a podcast wallet? You want $10? in here?
Okay. Yep, put in your credit card. Alternatively, if you have
Bitcoin, you can do it that way. And then it's authenticated,
paid, you set your value slider, how many sets you want to send a
minute, and you're done.
Yeah, that's,
that's the dream.
That's the dream and the only thing that will the only thing
that makes that complicated and in the current iteration of it
is that if you It involves potentially a macaroon. Right,
right, right, right. And that we're trying desperately I'm
trying to work to get around. And I don't know if it's
possible or not. But if we Because see, that's the thing
with voltage they have. Yeah, they hit you can buy your your
node, but you're not really. You're, they've got that set up
where it's like you, you put your credit card and you buy
your node. That's different. That's there's no currency
conversions or anything like that taking.
Notice that there's no, there's no UX at all, really, for a
simple user. And there's no channels, there's lots of stuff
we got to work on.
Because it's a heat because he doesn't have to do he doesn't
have to do any of the like, know, your customer stuff, and
all that kind of stuff. Because the KYC thing, because he's not
actually he's getting paid to run them. Right? The virtual
hardware he's not getting paid to buy you can exchange money.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that's, that's where it gets tricky is
like, we got to figure out a way to be able to interact with a
node in a way that doesn't put, you know, all that stuff into
place, because I don't think he wants to get involved in that
either. You know, with KYC, and all that, because that's
a big pain in the butt. Right? Then there's this, the next
opportunity to do that is with possibly with L SAP. But that's
where the macaroon comes in. So anyway, we're, we're, we're
pushing.
And trying. Yeah.
And while we're pushing, breeze wallet, they're still heads down
on development, and their ideas to come out with an app that
work the views get in the app store, and it's good to go. You
still have to fill it up with Bitcoin. And you can do that
through an exchange in their app. So I have like, I see, I'm
like the kid who has his nose pressed against the window
looking and seeing the thing they really want, you know, like
what can I just scheming and devising? Like, how can I get on
the other side of that window? I can see.
Right here, I
can see it all I can see it all right. Do you have anything else
that we need to go over everything? We need to do sexy
namespace talk today, or?
Yeah, we do need to be a little bit of 60 namespace talk. We can
do that with Martin, though. Oh,
that's a good idea that you got clips too. I'm kind of saying
this because I see something really nice here in my I haven't
listened to it
yet. We will be able to bring Martin in. Yeah, we'll drop our
new jingle.
Oh my god. Ladies and gentlemen, wake the kids alert the
neighbors. We're dropping a new jingle. Speaking of jingles, the
man who brought us our first jingle ever. In fact, I'm going
to play it for you right here.
You have been listening to podcasting. 2.0 visit
podcast.com for more information,
which was his gift to us. Ladies and gentlemen from Denmark, we
have the developer of pod friend. And just seems like a
super nice guy. We introduced Martin Martin to you.
Hi, I'm, I'm extremely happy to be here. And and first of all, I
just want to say that I think that it's it's a bit unfair that
they made Robert Greenleaf stepped down just because Lipson
didn't didn't want to implement the new namespace.
And he's funny ladies and gentlemen.
You just try it, you're just trying to pile on James Kirtland
is what you're doing more headlines that he has to defend
as if he was the one that did it.
So Martin, I have so many questions, I need to ask a
couple of basic things. Because you live in what the United
Nations has deemed the happiest place on earth. Everybody knows
that Denmark is the best place to live. And what do you think
that is? Is it your life work balance generally, because of
all the people I've ever seen in my life, I think you have the
best.
I think it's the work life balance. And it's probably also
like our social security nets that, like if you lose your job,
you don't end up on the street. And and no matter how rich or
poor Your parents are, you can still take an education, you can
still go to the university and college you will even get paid
to do so I think. I think it's that. You don't have to worry as
much. But I also think that in the media, you know, they always
say that, hey, Denmark is the happiest nation in the world.
And then all the Danish people would be like, what? No. Well, I
also understand that
what I've understand from the numbers is Denmark also has the
most people using antidepressants, which I thought
was kind of interesting, and it makes sense. And everyone taking
an antidepressant you're all real happy. So
but I don't think antidepressants make you happy,
though, but no.
But they make you fill out the form properly.
So yeah. And then and then
the news that reached the United States this week, Martin I Oh,
my goodness. I hope you heard it. I'm so happy to be speaking
to a representative from your country.
explaining to do yeah,
was so what reached our shores. with great fanfare and went
viral is a brand new kids television show in Denmark. Oh,
wow. Featuring a man with the longest penis in the world. And
I'm glad we have you to put that into context for us.
Yeah. Give us your thought. What are you learning?
What are you learning?
Martin? What
are you learning about the man with the largest penis in the
world?
And yeah, so I I've only seen trailers, because of course,
yeah, it went viral. But yeah, it's done pillar man, which is
like john Willie. So,
john, really? Okay.
Yeah. So so I think our national television station, you know,
they're always trying to push the boundaries. And I like that.
And, yeah, basically, I think what they're trying to say is
that adults will see this as like sexualized, but kids in the
target group, which is like between five and eight, they
will not they will just think it's funny. And it's probably
right. Yeah. You see on Facebook and stuff that that is that is
true children just like, yeah, that's really funny.
That's very interesting. And I'm changing my thoughts on this.
When I was growing up in the Netherlands, sexuality was a
very different thing than it is today. It was, you know, you go
to the Sport Club, you know, like play hockey or soccer,
football. And there would be men and women dressing rooms and
showers. I mean, this was this was, and now we're talking 40
years ago, longer, longer than that 45 years ago. But it was
much more open. And I remember specifically, in fact, coming
from the United States, how people who had disabilities were
much more open in Europe. Whereas where we were coming
from at the time that we like, wow, this someone who's really
messed up, you know, you didn't really see that in America,
these people were kind of kept behind closed doors. And so
there's been this interesting shift where the United States
has gotten more open, I think, much more open towards
sexuality. But at the same time, the puritanical Americanism has
kind of spread across the rest of the world. It's really it's
really high.
So yeah, yeah, that's definitely true. Yeah,
now they think about it that that long penis thing, there's
something to it
that late, but Oh, okay. Well, you need to drop our new jingle
then.
Which one is that?
Yes. The jingle hot. namespaced. Oh,
oh, yeah, baby.
And now it's time for some hot namespace.
That Jennifer, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah.
I gotta hear that one more time. Let's just say Hey, guys, we're
here on the show. Now
it's time for some
hot names. That's right, ladies, throw your panties on the stage.
We're gonna show you the namespace.
She did that one for me on this on this slot?
is phenomenal.
national treasure?
Yes, national treasure. So Martin. I'd love to know a
little bit more about you. But maybe we just start with how you
heard about podcast index. And, and how you kind of jumped in.
And just your whole feeling about it so we can understand.
You know, what we've seen from you. It's just nothing but a
super nice, optimistic positive guy who implements my dreams
within 30 seconds. So you're on my real good side. Like really
good. Because, you know, this is like, holy shit. I'm getting
everything I asked for.
That's very nice works. Well, I
mean, it I mean, the pod friend, the web app now that I'm on
what's that? Damn oS? I'm on grafico OS. I mean, even kicks
ass. I have it as a web app. And it's it functions it does
everything I want it to do.
Well, the feedbacks funny, that's, yeah. It's funny, as you
know, I used to be an Android and and everything was just
working. And it was so nice. And then I got an iPhone as my
primary phone just you know, also so I could do development
and it's just crap. It's only working in the browser. And and
there's so many, you know, problems developing for the
mobile Safari. So
it really it really is interesting. I mean, even a day
if you know the river
on
freedom controller, sometimes my pins articles will get stuck.
Okay, turns out that's, that's not the server. It was the
iPhone, the Safari browser can handle that. And I did it on
graphene. It's like, boom, done. Three seconds. Sounds weird
going on was what they're doing. What do you think that is?
Martin? They just hate us.
No, I, I think it's partly because mobile Safari is just
not very good. I mean, I'm sure they have great developers. But
I don't know if it's not prioritized. And then I think
definitely, progressive web apps are certainly not prioritized. I
think it's good. You'd like as a danger to the business model of
the App Store.
Yeah, it is. I mean, it totally is. That's not that's not just
a, you know, that's not just fear. That's true. Because if
progressive web apps become a strong competitor, yeah, no, you
know, native apps. I mean, that's a that's a deal. Killer.
They
talk a big, big game about it, though. Yeah. And that was the
original vision, I think.
Yeah. But on the other hand, I don't know if you know, but on
the Google Play Store, they actually allowing progressive
web apps in the store. Now you can submit a progressive web
app, and people can buy it and download it. That's, that's
amazing. That's, that's cool. That's a dream. Yeah. Yeah. And
the same actually, with the Microsoft Store. They also like
as a desktop app. They also allowing it now. So I plan to
submit part rent.
Oh, that's cool. Well, that is progressive. It has
the Mac App, go and go in is that I haven't had a chance to
download it yet. I was gonna do it last. Oh, yeah. You
got a nice plug there for. For pod. Mac. Yep. And so So yeah, I
think it's working out great. Except I found out that auto
update will only work if it's signed. Everyone who's
downloaded it so far, I will have to ask them to redownload
it. And that's, that's just that. So to get that done before
I push it more? Okay, I've
got a question for you on that. Because if if you? Did you
initially push it through the website, not through the app
store?
Yeah, it's also the Web Store. And you even have to right click
and press open to avoid like to have that will allow you to meet
at all, which is how I think like to prevent it being
malware and stuff. How can you sign it? If you're not good?
Does that mean you're gonna have to put it in the Mac App Store,
or you're just gonna have to put a developer certificate on it?
I think you can do it outside the App Store if you sign it.
But of course, I want to put it in the App Store. And I'm just
been holding off because I definitely want to auto update
to work before I do that.
Yeah, that because I don't I don't know how that works. I
know. And though on the windows side, you can sign you can
digitally sign any executable. But then on the Mac side, I
wasn't sure how that works. Because I think in order to not
get that prompt, I think it's not enough. And then correct me
if I'm wrong. I don't think it's enough to just sign it. I think
you have to sign it and be on Apple's approved. vendor. list
that might be true. Like, I haven't looked into it. That
much it I know you have to use Xcode, which is a pain because
Windows is my platform of choice. So I have I have an old
MacBook Pro, which I'm using for it because the new m one. Mac
Mini is not doing it like that some of the tools is not there
yet, but
I Oh yeah, I've got an M one. And I've struggled with it with
some of the it's like everything works on most of the stuff
works. But then when you have to go in and like I was installing
a Ruby developer environment, and a bunch of those things
didn't compile. So he had to jump through a bunch of hoops to
get it.
Yeah. Also, I just want to say that it's amazing that now this
show, you know, covered namespaces. And now we can get
like the hot developer talk as well like to scale up the last
few people.
We're trying our formula.
We're driving to zero audience on this show. We're really
driving hard. So Martin, tell us about yourself, man, you're
where do you live in Denmark? What do you do? I we presume you
have a day job?
Yeah, so so I live in Copenhagen, or just, I guess for
most people, it will be at the Copenhagen. I live just outside
of Copenhagen. And I work as a product manager for a company
called trustpilot, which is like they do an online review
platform. And it's it's great, but I just missed developing.
Before joining trustpilot I had 20 years of programming
experience it well, if not more, but. And yeah, I've just always
been enjoying it. And suddenly I found myself, you know, not
coding and there's like, ah, I need something to do. And and of
course, I have had other projects. But then I, I think
roughly a year ago, I started developing pot friend and I used
the apple API, you know, as people did back then. And and I
actually looked through my old emails and I and I found that on
August 2020. I wrote James Crippen and actually and said,
Hey, James, you seem like the expert on podcasts? Like what
what are options for for for podcast directories? Because,
you know, apple, you know, their API is rate limited. So as soon
as you have just a tiny bit of success, then listen to that
people. I
didn't know that. What's the what's the rate limit? I'd know
Oh, it of course because it would be from a central source
or not? No. All right for you pulling it in. Yeah.
Yeah. So so
I think can you pay a ping? Can you pay to get more a higher
rate limit from Apple?
No, but I actually wrote them. Because they do have an
enterprise program where once a day, you can get like a huge
thing. 10 gigabyte file set up in information. And, and that
would be perfectly fine for me. But basically, they replied
that, like, they were being kind, but basically, between the
lines, they said, You're too small scram. And also, they said
that, you know, if you're just making a podcasting app, then
you're not interesting. You have to actually promote music and
books and TV shows for partnership program. It's not
the podcast, actually.
I get you.
I was a bit depressed. I can understand. Yeah. And then and
then in pop news, in when was it? I can't remember. But it was
in September, I think, you know, suddenly, James robear that
Curry is talking about making, you know, podcasting. 2.0. And,
and I look in my emails, and I wrote you right after and say,
hey, I want to be part of this. And and then you put me in touch
with Dave. And it was before the website was even live. And then
it was just super easy to get started. And then yeah, yeah,
the rest is history, as they say. Yeah. So that was amazing.
Yeah, as seen,
there's there's another. There's another app that I've just
launched, called, I think it was on, I think it was in pod news.
Today, Ted got a horrible name, tap tape, or something like
that. And they seem to be using the lesson notes API. And, you
know, there's, I think that's a paid thing. It's like 100, and
something dollars a month or something like that. And that
that's another thing that we do, we try to keep this thing free
as much as you can. Because even 100 bucks, if you're not making
any money off your app, even 100 bucks hurts me, it hurts because
you don't know how long it's gonna last. It's like, Well,
okay, maybe I'll get some paid users. But if it lasts a year,
that's like, 12 $100 out of my pocket, that I can't get back,
you know, not if you if you got Venus, not like you have most of
these people have VC backers, or anything like that. I mean, just
be trying to launch in, you know, not lose your shirt on it
at the same time. So, yeah, there may be other options out
there, but they hurt
September,
I did actually look at the at listen notes back then. And, and
I was thinking of starting to use less notes. But the price
model, you know, when you're when you're making software, you
always have this dream? Or maybe at some day, it will, like just
take off and then just like, how much would that cost? And like,
would they just cut taxes? And then?
Yeah, well, that we think about that in the in the other way
around? Because we have people like somebody contacted me a
couple of days ago, and asking, you know, as I'm thinking about
bringing a potentially bigger service to use the index, will
you'll be able to handle that load. And I said, you know,
first of all, thank you for asking first. Yeah, because that
makes it really nice. But then, you know, it's like, we don't
want to necessarily grow the index super big, super fast,
because we can't handle that either. I mean, like, you know,
I mean, the more people that use our service, the more you're
gonna it's gonna cost us on monthly hosting and that kind of
thing. So
Dave Jones bandwidth
today? Yeah. So you mean, you got to be careful about the way
you scale things just the Internet has, it is a two edged
sword, it can allow you, it allows you the ability to scale
way faster than you can then you actually should you get to kind
of control that a little bit, you know?
Well, we're experts at launching things slowly. Dave.
I like it terminology.
Squish. Yeah, definitely. Also, I like a human factor for that
as well. I mean, you might have noticed that that in the start,
I developed like insanely fast sometimes. And, and, and I think
my girlfriend at one point called me pot cysts. Like she
loved that I'm really passionate about it. But I think you know,
at one point, it was like more sprinting. For me and now I
think, Okay, this is actually a marathon like, I need I need to,
you know, move things slow. But also I
really want to thank you when when I asked you to build the
RSS builder how you jumped on that was so incredibly kind
because you solved an enormous problem at that moment. And that
was really above and beyond. And I just want to thank you again
for doing that. And yeah,
no problem. And I, it's always a pleasure to make things that,
you know, will actually solve a problem and and is getting used,
I hope I can improve it even more, because I think right now
it's, it ended in a bit of a black hole, but, but I hope I
hope we can expand upon it even more in the future.
Definitely. And so I'm actually looking at the email September
2, when I got I got your first email, interestingly enough,
it's very nice to reread that I completely forgotten about that.
Now, what what I like the most about your work is you are to me
a perfect example of, of developers really, it's an art
and a science. And it's not just the what you're doing with the
code under the hood, but you're also kind of a really good
developer designer. I mean, you you design interfaces, that, I
think Firstly, you design them real fast. Do you have
experience with this?
I mean, you should see, I think I actually have a screenshot on
my, on my desktop. That shows how many iterations I go through
sometimes. Yeah, I think I had like over 20 different
variations of the front page of the mobile app. And I think I
drove my girlfriend crazy one time at like sending her like,
we don't live together, so I kept sending her on an
unchecked. Like, what about this one? Or this one? Oh, yeah, this
one.
Martin's girlfriend's like, Hey, I'll get back to you. I'm
watching that new TV show with the guy with a super long penis.
I'll
be right back. Gotta be
careful, man. You can't leave your woman alone can't
do that is true. Oh, yeah. So
I'm trying not to be too fanboy ish, because I really enjoy so
much what you've done. And it is my daily driver. I mean, I I
tried to use every single app that comes out of the out of our
development. And some Actually, I use in different use cases
like pod station. I use in the studio all the time, because
it's, you know, it's a browser extension, pop, boom, he got
something right away. It's incredibly handy for me. Hyper
catcher, of course, they use for currently for creating the
chapters. But I also asked my wife, Tina, to, I want you to
use because she she's a fan of Tim Poole. She likes Megyn
Kelly, of course, no agenda show mo facts. She does not listen to
the hot namespace talk. She has tried to appreciate it. But I
said, Oh, well, I'd like you to try pod friend. And and you
know, these are the things you really find out right. And now
she will be very honest with me. And she says, Now, I want you to
tell Martin, when you talk to I'm still using it. I really,
really like and she had two pieces of feedback for you.
Yeah, one. She says she would really love some kind of
explainer video or something that just quickly shows the main
features because she found them hard to discover, which I'm sure
is and we talked about the mini player, which she had no idea
and I see you've changed things and the flow feels better. I
can't quite even put my own finger on it. So that was one
piece of feedback. But the funniest one this morning was
how come I can't create a chapter on it. Like, Ooh, okay.
So so I can definitely it talks about, like the onboarding. Like
actually learning how to use the app is something that I
definitely want to do. Like, I actually share the podcast app
on both my facebook profile and my LinkedIn profile. And, and I
felt really bad doing that, because I like, oh, there's so
many things that I've done or not done and yeah. And and I
think giving people an introduction to how to use it.
Like, even just something as simple as, like a, you know,
arrow pointing, like search for a podcast here. Like, I will
definitely do that.
Yeah, I'm a fan of those kinds of tutorials. I like that better
than a video myself. I like that too.
Yeah, as long as there's a skip button for the empower. Yeah,
exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But But, um, yeah, I think my to do list
is like, you know, insanely long like every time I get an idea,
write it down. And, and I tried to be selective to select, or to
develop a little bit of quality of life that just makes the app
better. A little bit of new things that will, you know, give
it a bit of exposure like then you will share the link or the
news like because something is new and interesting and And also
thinks that we'll just move it forward, like, you know, the
login so that that that's not interesting in itself. But as
soon as I have the synchronization right on mobile
and and and the best of app, then it's interesting as I tried
to, you know, split out. And then, of course that things
where it's a little bit hit and miss, like, I've worked a lot on
the chat lately, and it's working nice. But then I'm
thinking like, how many people actually use like a real time
chat? Maybe, you know, it would be better with like, a feed
structure. But no, it's there. And well, I haven't released it
yet.
But what are you using for the back end for that?
So I programmed my own server, of course, as you do, but no,
that was a joke. Because that would be nice. But in the end, I
thought it was kind of easier for my own purposes to do to
work my own, because then I know, I can save each chat
message with a timestamp for the specific point in the episode
like that.
But a lot of
Yeah, but on the other hand, then it's like, do I really want
to do that? Do I want to save the conversations? Or do I just
want it to be a live chat? Because I also want to make it
into a widget so that I can tell podcast host Hey, crap, this
chat chat widget and put it on your own website? Yeah.
That's a good idea.
And and, yeah, so so I haven't completely, you know, finished
that. But I do hope that, you know, over the next couple of
weeks, that's to finish the Chat Chat. And then there's the
matter of two chapters, which I think is interesting, because I
made the whole chapter builder thing, which was not really a
success. And I, I can, it's not that nice to use, I think I can
easily improve it, but as a road on podcast, index that socials
that, right now, there's like this competition that that hyper
capture is really good at, like, the chapters and the community
chapters. And I felt like, hey, if I, if I do something like
that, it's just like a meet who really wants to solve, like how
we can work together as apps to share this. chapters. Like
that's, that's, that's what I would like to solve. I
agree. I'm glad you're thinking that way. Because that's that,
you know, Mo Mo facts does, he gives me a lot of feedback on
was he's a real YouTuber, and he's a little more down. He
always said, Adam, I'll give you something from the street, man,
you gotta listen up for podcasting. 2.0. And without a
doubt, the the ability to chat is huge. That's what YouTube is.
But also, there's this new app, it's iOS only, I think it's
called.
God, it's
not cloud share. It's he told me about it. It's on waitlist right
now. But that's pretty much listening to your favorite
podcasts. And I think there's some kind of simultaneous chat,
he says that's Bubbling Under. But really, anyone who can solve
the cross app problem, have a chat is going to really
invigorate the entire the entire ecosystem, that will be huge.
And I did think about just making, you know, open
endpoints, so that that, that if people want to, you know,
implement the chat, then they can just do that in their own
client and just call like, send message and get messages right,
then I'm like, that that's not really open. That's just very
centralized API server. And I'm not I'm not even ready to become
that centralized point. So
you don't
know. I've looked at things there is, I think it's called
matrix.org. And I haven't tried it. So it might be horrible, but
I think they they're trying to be like a distributed chat. So I
would love to try something like that. But like the nonprofit
also, I think, and
I think the lightning stuff, really the effects that comes
into play too, because I agree. One thing you see with with
things is that the real sort of revolutionary thing that they
did was charging per message. And if you charge like a tiny
little amount, you know, tiny little micro payment per
message. It doesn't really if you don't, you don't it's small
enough to where you don't think about it. You're not thinking oh
my god, this is expensive. I'm not going to chat very much each
t few chat freely because it's really not costing you very much
at all. But there's also that anti spam protection. Yes, yes,
you can't just spam and and Like, if you just mouthed off
and put a bunch of racist comments in into something mean,
it's going to get deleted and you're going to lose your money.
Yeah. And what's cool about what they put it in is they have this
concept of a stake. So if you look at it, when you, when you
post a message, it doesn't cost you one Satoshi it can cost you
51, Satoshi, some even more. So, you know, and so you get that
back the the extra 50 after a set amount of time, which I
think standard is two hours. So if within that two hours, you
turn into incredible douchebag or you're spamming, then you can
be blocked from the group, and then you lose all the state
money that you put in. So and and i think it works. And it was
interesting is even when you join one of those Sphinx tribes,
you see, hey, it costs 10 cents to send a message. I'm like,
wow, do I really want to send a message and 10 satoshis? You
know, it's like, it's like nothing. It's a speck of dust.
But still it so it really has a psychological effect. And I
think what Dave is saying is that, yeah, we're not there yet.
But man, we're getting damn close. Because that you know,
what people would call web 3.0. I really am seeing this type of
blockchain, particularly for the, you know, for a
decentralized community type thing, even what Brian of London
would do is doing with this hive blockchain yet, that's also
something we should look at. I mean, that, that seems you also
pay money for that, you know,
I don't know how well it would be open, maybe open cross cross
app chat runs on hive or something. Because that's the
thing is, you know, when you're talking, Martin, I'm thinking
immediately of all the ways that you know, this is going to
number one is going to be abused, and it's going to hurt
you. And then you also have this idea of like, Okay, well, then
he has some sort of moderation because you're going to have
some whack job come in and start spewing out, you know, the
racism or something like that. So then, then you're, then
you're gonna, that's going to be on your dime down to, you know,
shoulder, but then if you put if you put if you go back to sort
of like this decentralized, pay, like, pay per message, steak,
steak a certain amount of money anti spam type deal, then what
it does is it it lets the community moderate itself, and
you don't have to have some sort of top down moderation. Where
did you see like, on Twitter, where they're having to cut, you
know, they're, they, it's on them to moderate their platform?
If, if every, if the message is cost you money, and there's a
way to stake it and revert it, then the community can police
itself? And you know, I You don't have to do that.
Yeah, I think, you know, every time I build a feature, I always
think, Okay, how much headache? Is this gonna cost me in the
future? Because I've had ideas like, for people to, like, I
love True Crime podcast, but like, that's my dirty secret.
Now, we
see what you highlight on the homepage.
We see Yeah, exactly. So um, and in those, you know, I always,
like, that's actually one of the reasons also why I started pot
friend, I was like, I wanted to have like, it well, preferably
interactive content, but also just content, like the chapters,
and things like that. And going even further than that. So you
could see, like, let's say, a timeline, and you could scroll
in it, and, and you could see a map and all these things that, I
think that I want to look at, at some point, and hopefully, you
know, in an open fashion, but yeah,
that's, that's the secret to the best software. The best software
is the is the software that the developer uses himself, or he
has created for his or herself and uses on a daily basis.
Because they, when they're using their own app, and it's, you
know, it's gonna be good because they're gonna have the same
issues that you have.
Exactly. And I do use parchment everyday like both on the
desktop, which was also one of the driving factors, because I
work and when I program, I love listening to podcasts sometimes.
And I was really lacking a good desktop app as well. And so that
was also one of the motivations and then now I've been working
from home since last March. So I try to always, like take a daily
walk for close to an hour and and I listen to podcasts as
well. So that's under mobile then so it's good to get that
mixed. Use of your own product. Yeah.
Yes. Good.
Yeah. Okay. So going back to like the rich content that I was
considering, like, okay, so so users need to be able to upload
photos as well and stuff and I was just thinking, that probably
means that I would have to look through every single image
uploaded
And I thought, just as I think I've mentioned this to you
before, but well two things one, thank you both for fixing the
your latest episodes bug because I was trying to I was I was
noticing a tune like, why don't I see pod news here and I'm
seeing other things. I didn't know what I was missing really.
And I was like, something's wrong. So you guys figured that
and this morning I was delighted like,
wow, okay, yeah, that was grateful.
And thank you for the for the interface to my car.
That's awesome.
Oh, nice. It's beyond It's so nice. You know, I don't have to
connect anything. And I just hit the the media button which knows
is looking for a Bluetooth that connects it picks up where I was
where I was playing when I had it. On my on my earphones. The
only thing that would be super superduper is if album art and
chapter art came through and displayed, but that may be more
challenging.
Yeah, so I've really tried to solve that. And it's just not
possible. And it's not because of like the pot friend app. It
is because no Universalist extending it. Yeah. Yeah. And
maybe, I would guess if it's a native app, then then it would
show up, maybe. So I have hopes that as soon as, as you know, I
bundle it together as a native app, then maybe it will come
through. So let's cross our fingers.
Yeah, no, I'm just saying it's more about how phenomenal would
be to be in the car listening, and then see the image change. I
mean, that's how sad My life is. But really, I would be so happy
like, James. Yeah,
yeah.
So are you gonna, are you gonna go to a native app? At some
point?
Yeah. So it's actually interesting, because pop friend,
at one point did have a native app for iOS and Android. Like I
just never released it. And I made like, you might know that
the web app and the desktop apps are in react, and then their
mobile apps I made in React Native. And that allowed me to
reuse, like a lot of the code, but not all, like all the UI,
you have to code from scratch. And, and, and it's just, you
know, maintaining these two versions, then I just decided,
you know, what, I really want to make really sure that the core
of the app is good. Before I commit to whenever I make a
feature that I bet that I make it in two versions instead of
one version. So I decided to hold a little bit back on the
native app. But yeah, I've found other tech things like just to
go completely geeky Apache Cordova that allows you to pack
a normal web app into a mobile app. And I'm hoping that maybe I
can use that to just have one version. Because that would be
extremely awesome. Because Yeah, when you're just one developer
on your to do list is already like 10 miles long. And yeah,
you're just always looking for, like, how can I work smarter
instead of harder?
Yeah, because that's gonna be a lot of work to get into UI is
what takes 90% of the effort in any in any software, at least
you can have. It's like it's doing is doing 5% of the work,
but it takes 95% of the effort.
Yeah, definitely. I cannot, I can already feel it now. Like,
I'm finally starting to get like some solid UI components, like,
like a pop friend component library done. So when I make
things, I can reuse them, but but when I have to do new stuff,
for example, like if I had to do this onboarding, showing like,
this is how we get started. But it just takes time. Yeah,
that's for sure. We need a new jingle. And now sexy component
library
named Jennifer
Martin.
Now, you know, part of our, our mission or part two of our
mission is to retool podcasting as a platform of value for all
parties. What are your thoughts on that? in general? I know
you're familiar with the lightning stuff. I know, it's,
it's not you know, you can't you can only focus on so much. What
are your thoughts in general?
So actually, let me just cover the first part of your mission
statement. The open platform for free speech is free speech.
Yeah. But I just think that it's so important. Like, I've had
conversations with some of my friends and colleagues that know
that I'm doing pot brand and they're like, well, free speech.
Like, it's not that important. But when you look around the
world, it's just you know, you look at China with their you
know, social platform where you get points for being it being a
good citizen, and you can lose the your travel privileges, if
you're not, and you look at Russia, and like, you know, the
opponent of the states like you know, they they will get
poisoned and stuff and the media, you know, they're not
really reporting on it and Well, yeah, that at least afraid of
it. It's just, it's so so important. Like, even in, in, in
Denmark, where we are, you know, we feel like, Oh, we have a free
press and everything is like, Yeah, but we also have to fight
for it. So well, thank thank you.
I appreciate that man, I think you're doing you're a big part
of that of that mission. And the reason why we've been talking
about mission number two is because I feel we have already
achieved the foundation. And yeah, with developers like you,
and and all the plethora of developers we have and the
holsters and everything we're doing. Yeah. I mean, we are
absolutely doing it. It's happened. It's really, we should
all be very proud of that.
Yeah. And then the value part. I mean, I definitely plan to
monetize print at some point, if I can. And I haven't really
figured out why. No, not why not how, and I would love to do the
lightning node. It's simply just outside of my area. Cheese. And,
and I would just be very careful throwing my resources. Well,
resource. Sure. Yeah, at it before I feel that that part
friend in itself is like good enough that it can actually
drive to get users like, I'm actually surprised every time I
get an email and someone is using it and asking, Hey, you
know, can I get a sleep timer? Or I'm like, oh, people are
using it.
That's interesting. Just, just last night, I was hoping for a
sleep time because I wanted to listen to this one podcast, I
knew I would fall asleep. And I know that the default is to go
to the next next episode. Like I wish I could remember to ask
Martin about asleep.
Well, now you did and is already there. Oh, no, the three dots.
And then there is a set sleep timer. It's a Yeah, it's a it's
hidden behind the three dots. I guess. That could be? How long?
Did I did that? I thought it was a month or so I think someone
else was asking for it. But yeah, that that's the
sleep timer dog. Oh my god, oh my god.
But But actually, that highlights the, you know, ever
existing problems of user interface. It's like, okay, you
know, yeah, I want to hide some things that I use that much. But
then how do people find them? And
yeah, that's crazy, because I was looking for it. And I
thought I tapped on the three dots. Hmm. There you go.
Do you think you'll support? Would you support video at any
point?
It does support video, actually. Yeah. geek news central podcast,
and then we'd like they have a video version, then you can
actually see that video.
You know, I, I've always been baffled by this now, because
people and I'm glad you brought that up, and that many people
have approached me on email, etc. Social media say, you gotta
do this for video. And, you know, so fuck YouTube. And, and
I say two things. One, one, as far as I know, every podcast app
can can play video, as long as it's, you know, within a certain
format realm. And, secondarily, it's never going to be like
YouTube, because inherently it's not an algorithm. And that's
what makes YouTube YouTube. And what, what it we're kind of in
this interesting place where I see this entire infrastructure,
and I can see the same infrastructure being used for
music, I can see the same infrastructure being used for
video. And I just, it's whatever a developer decides to surface
and how to, you know, to focus their energy. And I was going to
wonder if you were, maybe you need to do like one of your home
banners, your latest episode, your latest podcast, maybe
latest video podcast to show people that it exists, and that
it works. It works fine. I agree. It works super well.
Yeah, I think that's actually a great idea. I think I actually
already asked Dave, if he could make an endpoint for me with
latest videos, or maybe I thought about it, but yeah, oh,
if he did, I
don't
know. Maybe I just thought about it. But I think what's
interesting, like in the in the video podcasts is that it just
works smoothly, but but actually answering Dave like, our Yeah,
like it produced iOS. I think it was Adam. Maybe that, like old
podcast app could play videos. No, that's actually not true.
Like, it's, it's not. It's not that many apps actually that
have implemented it. And I think it's just because maybe people
don't think about that, like podcasts as video but
yeah, I think that some of them can play. They'll play the
video, but it'll, they won't show that they'll just play the
audio. They play the video file, but You can't see.
Yeah. And I just popped up. It just popped up the new media
show in video. proxy works perfectly. I mean, yeah, Martin,
I mean, yeah, I would love to let us get that if we get that
endpoint going, that'd be great. Because I'd love to just see
what was rotating. And what's Yeah, you know, what, what,
what's unique about the web app? And I think, you know, when I
hear people use this lots of conversation, well, when I'm an
airplane, this won't happen, statistics won't happen.
Payments won't happen, all that stuff. And I'm saying to myself
self, the world is I mean, you get on an airplane, who's not
connected on the airplane anymore, everybody's connected
on the airplane, and it's only going to get better, there's
only going to be more bandwidth, more conductivity, etc. 5g,
besides trying, our brains will have conductivity everywhere.
And the problem with podcast apps and why they not, I think
probably been wary of supporting video is device storage, because
the default is to download down subscription, and then have it
for which was the which was necessary. This was the whole
the whole way podcasting came into life. And the enclosure
element was to download something to present a better
experience for the user. So you have a Oh, there's a new show,
click play, it works immediately. That's no longer
necessary. This is streaming, I'm not storing anything on my
device. When I'm watching the new media show. It's streaming.
And and that'll stream just fine to me. So I think this is
there's a revolution waiting to happen here. For a video.
I think I had, you know, to two thoughts and what you said there
one, like the, you know, whole web app that you know, blah,
blah, blah. And I think a pop friend of the web app itself is
not the selling point. But I think it's amazing that there
isn't weapon but but I'm thinking, hey, the web app is
there. So you can you know, just try it out. And because people I
think people are very careful, just, you know, getting new apps
and stuff I even saw like on the phone, the phones, the average
install rate per month is zero apps. Like that's how few brand
new apps people actually install. Right? So here, you can
try it out. And then once you're like, Hey, you know, pop friend,
it works great, then, you know, I'll start putting up a banner
like saying, hey, looks like you're using iPhone, you should
know get the app, right? Or looks like you're using Windows
and then and then you can you know, easily transition over to
the native experience.
Can I make you a marketing suggestion? Yeah, I wouldn't I
would remap the player to pod friend calm and then put your
messaging in there. This is where the iPod friend calm?
Yeah, I will definitely do that. And it is. I do plan to do that.
Because suddenly, I actually had a talk with with one of my
friends about it. Like, what do I actually need pot friend.com
for like this almost business like websites like LinkedIn.
Just just show them what it can do. And yeah, so exactly would
be a bit like if sweet, sweet. I had like a front page that's
like explained fully on like, oh, how social media works.
podcasting is a new feature in the media landscape.
Yeah. Well, and then regards to actually downloading video
podcasts, of course, I guess some some properties, 4k now and
stuff. But actually, mobile phones do have a lot of space
now. I'll
surely do sure they do.
Yeah. I don't see that as a I mean, I'm waiting for some
I'm waiting for someone to show up. Who says you know, I see all
these video podcasts. Here's a, you know, here's an apparent
endpoint that gives me video podcast. Why don't I just create
a front end? That is that looks like YouTube. And then maybe
I'll throw an algo in the back. And you don't have to call it
podcasting. That's fine with me too.
I don't care.
That that's the thing we thought about. Do you remember Adam when
we were first putting the skeleton up the the podcast of
the podcast index homepage, and we had the we had the carousel
that was you know, kind of lame. But the firt I was noticing that
the first thing that hits you is that sometimes video podcasts
pop up on your thing. It's like Well, okay, you have most recent
here. You could easily change that. Algo up a little bit.
Yeah. And then you have you basically just reinvented tik
tok, but in an open distributed RSS way. Yep. And everybody's
posting videos and it's just,
it's just a different wrapper. I mean, this this is the thing
that always gets me is like, especially when we get payments
working man. You can do it for all kinds of stuff. But it's
everyone and this is a testament to you, Martin. Most People are
stuck in the Gmail inbox model when it comes to podcast apps.
That's just how it always has worked. And that's a shame.
Because once you smoke some weed and get out of the box thinking
like, oh, man, we could do all this other stuff. And just
create a YouTube looking thing. And have this it's the same
mechanisms everywhere. The only difference is it only does
video. And it has an algorithm that presents things to you that
you may or may not like. Hmm,
that's really good. Definitely. I could definitely see, you
know, pot friend having like a chocolate top where you switch
between audio and video or something. And then whatever
you're in the mood for, like, Ah, you know, different
experience. Yeah,
yeah, exactly. And maybe, and maybe even like, I also thought
about because there are API endpoints out there like for
audiobooks and stuff? And I thought, That's quite close,
like maybe maybe introducing that as well. Like, just,
yes, yeah. I think we're gonna change our names to this. This
is not going to be the podcasting 2.0 2.0 show anymore.
This is going to be audio books. 2.0. Again, if audible can claim
that they're their podcasts, and I can claim that podcasts or
audiobooks if we're just making up words. Yeah. Audio. Great is
a great untapped territory for podcasting, I think.
Yeah, I think so. Because you know what, I think a lot of
people when they like listening to podcasts, that's probably the
same time where they could be listening to an audiobook. Like
when they're out walking or on their commute to work or
something. So and for me, like sometimes I like listening to
true crime. Sometimes I like listening to, you know, show
about podcasting sometimes, like just listening to the news, but
but I could definitely see myself listening to an audio
book at some point. So I think they're a good fit. And it's
also one way, you know, that could be a monetization because
most audiobooks cost money. So it could be like taking a cut
there or something. But yeah, currently under brainstorm
level, but yeah.
Do we want to pause and do a donation, I was just going
to say, let's, let's remind everybody that the entire
podcast index.org project, including this podcast is under
the value for value model. It's real simple. If there's anything
that we're doing here that gives you value that adds value to
your life, where there's just enjoyment of listening to this,
you might be just a podcast listener who wants to see
podcasting preserved as a platform for free speech, it's
all kinds of reasons. Just turn that into a number and send it
to us. That's it. And value can only be determined by you, if
it's whatever the value is, we'd love to see that and, and we'd
love to we'd love receiving that in exchange and we love doing
what we do. And that includes thanking the people who have
supported the project this week Dave's got his crumble paper
list
that David is right here. We the this makes me happy the very
first donation $50 from add Ryan. Ryan is is who interviewed
me for the podcast Business Journal.
Oh, man, that's
cool. That's, well, a thank you.
B.
I've never succeeded in doing that after an interview. So hey,
man, here's some money for your for your project. Nice. Well
done, Dave. more interviews for Dave.
Thank you. He's had a message said Dave and Adam. Thanks for
everything you guys do for the industry at Ryan radio, Inc. and
podcast Business Journal. Nice. Thanks for propagating. We'll
see. We get here's Okay. Here's another donation for $25. from
Daniel, Nevada. No, Daniel, Nevada, Nevada. And Daniel says
the podcast index project is becoming more important every
day. Adam for once, I think you've got your product timing
right on yours too soon. Please keep up the work and preserving
free speech.
I don't know man. We're on the cutting edge of the keys and
lightning payments. Not 10 years too early for that one.
Yeah, I'm gonna editorialize and say that's to be determined.
Right.
Yeah, we're, we try to do better try to be better.
Raphael Negron sent us $10 and he has no notes. Thank you.
Thank you.
See, is there a note on this one? Okay, yes. Stephen. Sent
Tony. He gave us $5 and said kicking in when I can I'm just a
podcast listener.
Oh, great. Thanks, Steve. Appreciate that. Well, we're
just a podcast API.
That's all we are, man.
That's, that's it. That's our guest for this week.
Well, shortlist shortlist, but the value was coming in and love
it. And thank you so much. If you want to contribute to the
entire proposition, go to podcast index.org. Scroll down
to the bottom, there's a big red Donate button, you can also
donate to a lightning payment. And thank you, thank you all
very much. And everybody who was on the recurring subscriptions,
which we see you. It keeps everything running and and it
keeps, keeps the dream alive.
Considering that, considering that Dred Scott said that last
week's show sucked, then I think that was pretty good to get for
donations.
We are ahead of the curve. We are ahead of the curve.
ej dropped a DC the you've been defragmented the clip in there.
He does that too.
If someone gives a donation for the first time, is that what
they get? Yes. That's almost a ringtone.
Oompa Loompa.
Love that. That's great. Yeah.
But I mean, considering that this week's episode has has
Martin on it. No, no.
Through the obvious, obvious through the roof.
Martin, what
what can we do you have any? Anything we can do for you
specifically? Is there Do you have any vision that you'd like
to see us? would look at work on? I'm sure you have dreams?
Yeah. What
do you want in the namespace?
Oh, hold on.
Oh, it's time for some namespace.
Bringing that.
I think every time I am, I want something I write Dave. Hey,
could this be you know, possible? And then he wrote,
writes back? Oh, yeah. Hey, you know, give me five minutes. And
then you know, it comes
back with a name. Unless it's a recent videos endpoint and that
doesn't ever get done. Yeah.
So my latest idea when I was working on the community
chapters for Pol Pot friends, because I have started working
on it was that, hey, it could be amazing if you could, like use
other texts as a chapter. So you could like give a location as a
as a chapter or you could give a person as a chapter. Oh, that's
just one thing. I was thinking. But yeah, yeah. Because then the
chapter chapter could be at Google map where you could
scroll and zoom. That would actually be pretty, pretty
nifty. But and Whoa,
oh, I'm wrapping my brain around that one. So you put elements of
other namespace elements referred into a separate node
into a different element.
I don't know exactly how it would work since since this
is namespace inception, and it's gonna break it's, everything's
gonna be destroyed if you can't rip the space time continuum.
Okay, no, but But no, I think, I think, you know, I tried to keep
up with the GitHub with the namespace talk, sometimes I get
a little bit caught up in development, and then I take a
break from it. But you know, there's so many things that are
interesting and, and, and happening. And if something goes
against something, you know, where I have a strong opinion,
like, you know, how it should work, for example, the person
tech, I did have some strong opinions on that, then then I
bought in and otherwise, I'm just, Oh, this looks like it's
on the right track. You know what, I'm not gonna I'm not
gonna bother. You know,
are you happy with the way it turned out? With the podcast
person tag?
Yeah. So I'm happy. The only thing that I'm sad about and you
know, we had a talk about that early on, is that I would still
love to be able to click, for example, Adam Curry and then
see, all the podcasts has been in all the episodes. So I still
think we need that. Somehow a unique ID that but I don't know
how to do it without a centralized thing, but that
would still be amazing. Do you want to
so you want to give me a number?
Yeah, so basically, somehow of identifying, it could be a
barcode on your forehead.
Say QR code.
QR code right there, baby. Beautiful scanning.
Oh, yes. No, but but it works. Wouldn't be nice like, because I
could definitely see the user experience like that. I'm
clicking Hey, this guy, Martin Martin, who has been on the
podcasting. 2.0. Which other podcasts has hasn't been in? Of
course, not. The first time I've ever seen a podcast, but you
know, in the future, it could be cool. Yeah,
I mean, in the future. I mean, everybody already does have a
number. Of course, we have credit card numbers, social
security numbers, phone numbers, we all kinds of numbers. I hope
that in the future, every citizen who was born or enters
the United States and becomes a citizen receives a Bitcoin ID.
Now, here's your node ID, and welcome to the country citizen.
And then yeah, and that's your ID. And you can use it for
payments for authentication for all kinds of stuff.
That's actually, you know, interesting, because, like, for
dictatorships and stuff, they could actually really use that
like, okay, so you spent how much money on propaganda this
week? Well, you know, what, Martin, and this is not exactly
the right form for it. But yeah, I see that coming. And it's
going to be the central bank, digital coins, and they're going
to have complete control over your money. They already have a
lot of control over it now. But it's going to be very easy. It's
going to be like, Oh, the government just gave me Venmo I
love it. And you're going to feel real good about it until
they start to do things that you won't feel good about. And
Bitcoin, you know, doesn't have that restriction. has all the
benefits.
Interesting. It's actually interesting. Some Danish banks
actually reject your payment if you're if you're trying to buy
bitcoin. Yeah. Wow. So and that's a lot of people that are
you know, unhappy about that. Like, it hasn't hasn't declined
any payment yet. So Wow, that's
proof that some of the Danish are unhappy.
Mythbusters
it's a lie.
I think a lot of Danish people are very great at like
complaining. Maybe that makes people happy. Tom.
Yeah, that's funny. But we that's Yeah, so we're getting
off topic here. But the I have a buddy who is a does mission
work. And he went over the summer he went to Japan. And he
said, Padre, even get in? I don't don't remember. You know,
we with this? No, I'm sorry. This wasn't over the summer.
This wasn't this was at the towards the end of last year.
Okay, it was Jan, January, December. Okay. Okay, so he said
that the the suicide problem in Japan is so bad that they have
like, little signs that light up or something like this. But
you'll have to correct me on this base, that there's some way
of signaling to the passengers on a train their trains that
they've had, when the train stops, they had stopped because
of a suicide. Oh, wow. People jumping in front of the train in
the Netherlands. This happens quite regularly in the code,
which is well known amongst citizens now. Because when they
say we have a delay, the trains going to stop because we have
some problems with the overhead wiring. That in fact is code
that someone jumped on the tracks.
Okay. Yeah. So some, something similar to that in Japan. And
I'm wondering if you know, if it's because there's, there's
validity to what you're saying, Martin, I mean, like, if you if
you're free to just express your anger and in, you know, complain
about something freely, then you get it all out? And then you're
fine, you're happy, you know, but if you press it, like an
honor, culture type thing, it just festers and how was that?
How was that?
If you don't mind me asking, since we're way off topic, how
was that politically in Denmark, of which I know nothing about
the different parties and the different movements? But are you
feel just everyone's like here? I would say in the United
States. There's, that's a good point. Dave, that's the biggest
problem is that there's a large group of people who are
apprehensive or maybe even afraid to express their
opinions. Not even politically, but social justice warrior Lee.
And, and I think that's the worst thing is the worst thing
that can happen is when people aren't afraid or afraid to tell,
to speak their mind. How is that in Denmark? Is everyone free?
And they feel free to do that, or is it similar?
I think people are actually quite free to express. Yeah, and
and we have a much more nuanced political system that the US
like, we don't have a two party system we have. I don't know 10
or something. Yeah, you
get you get a parliament parliamentary system. Right.
Yeah, exactly.
Where that helps. where no one's happy in the end.
Yeah.
It's funny because, you know, some of the small parties, you
know, suddenly in one election, they will get like, you know,
10% of the votes just because they have like some things like
where they like I mean, I know a lot of parties competed, like
being more and more racist, because that was like the site
guys at some point. The cool thing. And then of course, like
all the mainstream parties, they didn't do it but you know, there
always be something popping up. But But I do in general think
that that people are I wouldn't say completely free but but a
lot more free to like express
their points of view. Yeah, that's my that's my that's my
feelings on it has been for a long time I don't I'm just full
disclosure, I don't vote I haven't voted in 20 years on any
election, I just, I've completely opted out of all
them. I'm an imago was Emma Goldman fan, if voting change
anything, they wouldn't let you do that be illegal? Yeah. And so
that, you know, that that's the whole thing with me is my thing
is people are the most equal when they're the most free. And
when you if you take, if you restrict freedom, even a slight
amount of freedom of speech for you know, freedom of the press,
even as small quantities, immediately, equality, equality
goes way down. Because we that's, I think, I believe that
to every part of my being in that I think that's probably the
fight that we that all people will be fighting into, as things
go forward, sort of from here on out is that trying to preserve
equality through some measure of freedom?
Well, what I see, go ahead, go ahead, Martin.
No, it's just a funny thing. But more tragic, but I remember,
it's probably like four or five years ago, when there was the
whole, you know, that Apple was, like the people in China that
was assembling the phones, they were committing suicide on the
factory. And the way they solved it was not by improving
conditions and put, put nets around. And then all the
employees had to sign a contract that said they wouldn't commit
suicide while on the job. And there's
so many forms to fill out, please don't kill yourself on
our premises. Yeah, well, what I what I what I see. And what I
love so much is i and i look at podcasts index dot social, which
is really the, the, the petri dish of the whole project. And I
see all these people from different countries, different,
different backgrounds, and it's just beautiful to see everyone's
like, kind of working on the same thing. Do we butt heads?
Yeah, sure, once in a while. That's cool. But it's it's a
very, very, very productive civil
group. Yeah, I also love that there are so many different
people like James Kirtland, who represent us, like the new side,
and we have a, you know, a few people that are just, I just
listened. And you know, my opinion, and then we have a lot
of developers and I love, you know, reading what other
developers are doing. And you can, you know, like, me and
Dave, we were sitting there giving advice to to David J.
Lewis, yesterday about DNS, and it's just a great community. And
I really hope it's growing. So yeah. If anyone is listening and
you're interested in podcasting, or developing, you should really
join it's it's free to join. Yeah.
Yeah. Speaking of speaking of speaking of Daniel, Jason Lewis,
his, that that's his new middle name, JSON,
JSON. json Lewis. Yeah.
Yeah, he gave me He gave me early access to his new API's,
the biggest a podcast industry insights API s statistics API.
And so he gave me some early access to check it out and do
some testing on it and that kind of thing. And how is it? It's
great. Yeah, it's really good. It's gonna be really good. I
wanted to give him some kudos on that, because he's been working
hard at it for a couple of months for
a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So net nets. gonna be a really good product. I can. I
can vouch for it.
Yeah. But really, and just to reiterate, we want to add, like
we've had a lot of the hosting companies who want to talk to
all the developers. And Dave Jones is in charge of bookings.
So he's podcast index.org and you want to hit him up and now
but I want to meet David from hyper catcher, I want to I want
to meet the the pod station guy wanted to talk to everybody. I
mean, let's get let's get it all. Let's get as much out there
as possible. Your hopes, your dreams, etc. which leaves you
with the last word, Martin?
Yeah, like being a guest only cost me 20% of my future
earnings. So no, brilliant. No, I would, I would just say thank
you very much for having me. It was amazing to talk to you guys.
Yeah, and keep on doing the good work. I'm just so happy to be
part of this. This community.
Well, we can't thank you enough. And, and I personally can't
thank you enough because I really enjoy your product. It
just fits perfectly in my life right now. So that's Martin
Morton. Now you can find him. Well, most importantly, I would
say pod friend.com any other places at Martin that podcast?
podcast index out social, any other places to promote for you
know I think pot friend.com and and podcast, index or social.
Those are the places to find me. Okay
fantastic Martin, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
Thanks, Martin. Yeah, thank you,
Dave. Anything for the for the last few minutes?
Yeah, no, I don't think so. We get I got a stack of stuff here.
But we at least we know the next week. Yeah, we'll do that next
week.
Another board meeting next week. Again, thanks to our guests
Martin Morton, and my co founder and partner Dave Jones. Thank
you. Thank you. It was it was a good day is a good way to wrap
up the week. Did the Danes are
happy I feel happy right now. I
know it's rubbing off. It's fantastic.
Take some of that dangerous love and go enjoy your weekend. We'll
talk to you next week here on podcasting. 2.0
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