Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for August, 23 2024 episode 190
we're in the chateau. Hello everybody. Once again, it is a
Friday. You know what that means? Friday? Fun Day. Yeah.
It's time for the board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 everything
going on in podcasting. There's no other show needed,
James Cridland: trust me, we'll talk about that later. For
Adam Curry: sure, we are the boardroom, the only one that
doesn't need a balloon drop at the end. I'm Adam curry here in
the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man
who gives you more feed Id love than anyone else. Say hello to
my friend on the other end, the one, the only Mr. Dave Jones,
Dave Jones: feed ID. Love,
Adam Curry: it was, I misread it. It's by feed ID. Love is
what I should have said. Oh,
Dave Jones: okay, you made a
Adam Curry: new endpoint. Man, you create an end point, and
everyone's happy. Well,
Dave Jones: it's not technically a new endpoint. It is an
improvement to an existing endpoint.
Adam Curry: You are so awesome. Dave Jones,
Dave Jones: I'm not gonna disagree with you. I'm not gonna
fight you on it.
Adam Curry: I don't think people tell you enough. You know, it's
like people have no idea the work well, some do, but I don't
think people appreciate how much you do purely for the love of
podcasting, because let's be
Dave Jones: here to be appreciated. Hug me.
Adam Curry: Okay, baby, come here. Let me take you in your
arms. It's all good. That's all good. I I'm very excited today
for a couple of reasons.
Dave Jones: Okay, give them to me. Okay, well,
Adam Curry: in a moment, we have a guest coming up, and it's
exciting to have him, and I'm excited to have him on, not so
much to have him on, but to have him on at our regular board
meeting time, because usually it's like we have to do a show
at seven at night to accommodate him.
Dave Jones: I like the I like the derision in your voice.
Adam Curry: I'm excited because he's the ying to my Yang, but
I'm also excited, because you are listening to me right now on
the curry one beta, or beta, as our guests might say, What?
Dave Jones: What does that mean? The curry
Adam Curry: Dvorak microphone company, this is this a joke?
No, no, you are listening. This is my, our first mic. It's going
to be the Curry One is, you're really listening to the capsule.
More than anything, the body isn't it's basically in a toilet
paper roll.
Dave Jones: I cannot tell. I'm still, I'm still not sure if
you're No, no,
Adam Curry: I am telling you the God's honest truth.
Dave Jones: I need a picture of this thing.
Adam Curry: You're going to get a picture. I don't want to
publish it yet,
Dave Jones: in the toilet paper roll.
Adam Curry: It's not actually in a toilet paper roll, but it's in
a it's in a temporary housing and we've been, we've been we've
talked about this for Well, we've talked about exit
strategies. God, please give us anything to get out of this
podcasting gig. I don't know if this will lift us up and out,
but we've been ordering capsules and stuff for microphones for
many years. You know, I've tried many different microphones and
and it's really Dvorak who's been driving it, which is, I
would say extraordinary, because he's the laziest guy I know when
it comes to anything, and also because he has his daughter
working for us now.
Dave Jones: Okay, so things, things actually get done? Yeah,
exactly. So she does the publishing
Adam Curry: company, and we've done the no agenda ABC book, and
she also did too many eggs book, and she's been doing the
spreadsheet for us for about a year now, I think.
Dave Jones: And she's, I mean, the vinegar book is going to get
done one day. Oh, please no,
Adam Curry: this is the microphone companies instead of
the vinegar book, trust me. Okay, and, and, you know, so I'm
very particular. I'm like, Well, we're going to do, and, you
know, sell a branded mic. We're also going to do a valve
microphone. You know, we have a, we'll have a line of three, I
think, and we want to make it competitive to everything out
there. It's cheaper, in fact, than anything out there. So
it'll be the curry one podfather approved microphone, and it will
make it cheaper than anything else that's out there. I
Dave Jones: don't so how, how in the world are you doing this? I
mean, like the hardware is, you've been down the hardware
road before, and it is hard, expensive, and yes, all that
doing
Adam Curry: exactly what Shure and road and all those guys do,
once you find the capsule. And these capsules, they all come
from one place,
Dave Jones: like across so, so across the industry, all of
there's only a it's sort of like my it's sort of like televisions
and computer monitors. There's only one or two people that make
the panels Correct. Okay, it's
Adam Curry: all from China. The actual capsule itself. They're
all from China. And so then, you know, then you have to find the
right construction. So this is very similar, in fact, to me, it
sounds a little bit better than the EV 320 really. Oh yeah,
yeah, it has, it has something extra in there, I mean, and
we're doing this now, because in five years, my ears may be shot.
You know, it's like, I can, in fact, he started no agenda
yesterday, and he's like, before we started, said, he said, What
do you think of this? Mike? I said, it's a dog disconnected
right now. Like, Oh, really? He said, Yes, you know, we've been
through so because I, of course, I could EQ anything to make it
sound right, but I know what it has to have out of the box. And
so now there's still some characteristic, you know, we're
doing scopes and everything, and some of the body becomes very
important. Now I want to, I want to, I want to be, I want to Mike
that you spit down the tube, right? No side talkers. I want a
front talker, which this is, you don't need a pop filter on it,
because it has all the internal, internal very similar to the EB
320 it's smaller than the EV 320 which I like. So it's not that
big, heavy monster.
Dave Jones: EV 320 is a fat, is a large.
Adam Curry: So, yeah, it's a large. So I want something
that's smaller. This is, well, this temporary housing is very
small. It's too small. So there has to be, I want to be about
half of the EV 320 but the price, we're going to go sub 200
Dave Jones: easy, wow. Oh yeah, whoa. That's that. That's huge.
Adam Curry: And I was talking to Fernando from Sigma audio, yeah,
had a call with him, or at least they were going to do a bundle
Dave Jones: with it, with the Sigma and with the audio sigma.
Yeah, that's a great idea, yeah. So
Adam Curry: we'll have a bundle. I mean, I don't know I would
like retail for Mike headphones and the and one of the sigma
boxes for 400 bucks, for between four and 450
Dave Jones: that, if, man, if you could do that, and,
Adam Curry: and that would be killer. I would love to throw in
one of our 2.0 uh, partners, and do like, you know, three months
of hosting, or whatever, you know something like that,
Dave Jones: yeah, yeah, the Yeah, like, cotton gin said the
starter kit, it's the podcast. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Give some
like, like podcast topic ideas
Adam Curry: and like, sermon starters. We'll kick it now.
We'll kick you in the back to get you started with talking,
yeah, a swift kick in the pants.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's that's exciting, dude. I can't if you
had not told me that this was, I know, you wouldn't have known.
This was a different mic. I wouldn't have known
Adam Curry: I know because I I put it on yesterday, I wasn't
telling John that I was using it, and when I told me in the
same reactions like, I don't hear any difference. Now, you're
hearing me through clean feed there. It has a little has a
little higher output, which I think really makes it just the
whole everything. I didn't It's the same eq as the EV 320 so I
haven't changed anything.
Dave Jones: So this was just plug and play. Plug and Play
settings, plug and play.
Adam Curry: Yeah, plug and play. So, yeah, it'll take, it'll take
a little press. It'll take a little bit. But, you know,
because now we're going into design phase of the housing and,
of course, divorced like, I want the top to be yellow. I said
over my dead body, the top is going to be yellow. Why yellow?
I don't know. Man, he's like, but I don't just want a black
and black microphone. Well, okay, you can make it red then,
yeah,
James Cridland: it's actually kind of, yeah. I
Adam Curry: thought red mine, it's to be a differentiator, and
have red on this. Or curry, and then what curry? One cook a gold
curry. One gold. Oh, no, we're gonna do a gold version. Of
course, that's what you do.
Dave Jones: They now, then that one's 800 but of course,
Adam Curry: it's made of platinum. Yes, of course, of
course, that's what you do. Or we give them audio. We give the
gold plated ones to certain sell celebrity podcasters. Oh,
celebretty
Dave Jones: like me, yeah, well, of course, of course. The so the
Audio Technica ath in 20x headphones. Which are good
headphones? Wait, is
Adam Curry: that what I have?
Dave Jones: I think you've got like the M 50s or something, uh,
these are, like the in 20s. Which are I've had these before?
I think what I've got right now is like the M 30 or something.
I'm actually
Adam Curry: looking I took them off, so I don't want to get any
feedback. It doesn't even say on these headphones what it is.
Dave Jones: Let me see what mine is. Hello.
Adam Curry: I can go to my order, I guess, and see what
they are. Let me see I love these headphones because I was
always a Sony pro guy.
Dave Jones: Oh, I lied. Monitor the buyer, dynamic. DT, seven.
Adam Curry: I see, oops, almost i. And so, Audio Technica, let's
see
Dave Jones: the audio. Technica, I've had a pair of the at H, M
20 x's, and they're really nice. Here. I have headphones, and
they're only 50 bucks.
Adam Curry: I have the M 50x
Dave Jones: okay, you've got the step, yeah, you've got, there's
this, like the 20, the 30, and then the 50, yeah,
Adam Curry: these were 149 bucks, what I paid for them.
Yeah, when the and it was, it was a buddy of mine, my old
radio buddy from Holland, he said, because we always, we
started with the, remember the Sony's that were really, like
half a half a melon on each ear, yeah, humongous can, yeah, yeah.
So that was, that's what we used back in the day. And then the
Sony pros. Those were, those were perfect. And I use those
for many, many years. And then the audio, because I need an
over the air close otherwise, you know, I get there you go,
get that. Yep,
Dave Jones: yeah, the 20, the 20s are only 50 bucks. I mean,
so you're already talking, you know, if you bought, I think
that 404 50 is, I think, this hit for a full for
Adam Curry: a full package, and for a rig, yeah. And as you
know, that rig has the noise gate, or what he, we call the,
he calls the denoiser. It has multiple EQ settings. It's
really idiot proof, I mean, and it's just just little buttons
you just press. I love that guy.
Dave Jones: What is okay? So let me, let me go into this just a
little bit. And I've always wanted to know number, I guess,
the internal pop filter stuff. It doesn't always work. Like
sometimes I still get some pop. Yeah, you pop? Sure, yeah. Is
that? I mean, is that at all? Is that just because of lower
proximity, just not fixable? Right proximity? Yeah, there's
no you can't actually do it's not that I don't have a good
one. It's just,
Adam Curry: we'll have a guide. You know, we recommend you fist
your mic, which means one fist between your mouth and the
microphone, yes, oh no, it'd be a complete curry Dvorak product.
Dave Jones: You call me with a mouthful of business. It almost
got ugly over here.
Adam Curry: Yes, yes, so I'm excited, yeah, and I guarantee
you it will not be for sale at any podcast conference. I'm not
gonna go. I'm not gonna have a booth. I'm gonna go stand over
the booth. I think so.
Dave Jones: I just think the image of you standing there at a
booth with Todd like beside you is hilarious.
Adam Curry: Hey everybody, trap my microphone. I'm the
podfather. It would
Dave Jones: just be Todd bitch and the whole time about, you
know, nobody's showing up to my business.
Unknown: There's no carpet. There's no carpet.
Adam Curry: Hey, let's find out exactly how Podcast Movement
Washington DC was, as our guest today, has been sitting through
this very patiently. He rushed through TSA and was able to jump
into the lounge, into the lounge, and has set himself up.
You know him as the radio futurologist, host, producer and
writer of The Daily pod news newsletter and podcast, co host
of the pod news weekly review and friend of the show say hello
to James crittland.
James Cridland: It's very good to be here. Thank you so much.
Adam. I like the noise gate on this new microphone of yours.
It's very nice.
Adam Curry: Well, the noise gate is not on the mic, but okay,
well,
James Cridland: whatever it is, it sounds it sounds better. It
sounds better. Oh, sounds
Adam Curry: better. You think it sounds better than what I had
before. Yeah, really, yeah,
James Cridland: you can't. You can't, you can't hear it
clicking in and out. It's quite so much. So
Adam Curry: it's a good thing. Oh, interesting. Interesting.
Anyway,
James Cridland: not that. And thank you for the mention of
beef, of beef milkshake as well.
Dave Jones: Because, because Adam mentioned something about
it, I had to run and make one really quick.
Adam Curry: Yes. So James, you're set up in the American
Airlines lounge. If anyone wants to come and and I did. I just
Dox you, I guess so,
James Cridland: yeah, I guess you did, although I think there
are two here, and I don't know if I'm in the good one or the
bad one.
Adam Curry: So are you in one of those private rooms, or are you
just sitting amongst other people. Are people looking at
you weird?
James Cridland: No, I'm in. I'm in this sort of working thing.
And I think they call them working chateau, oh, shutell,
yes, where you get to sit? And, wow, how
Adam Curry: do I spell that? How do I spell like I was looking at
because it sounds like shittel, but I guess shadow
James Cridland: Chateau ch
Adam Curry: looks like chattel, yeah? Well, if I put another L
and an E, chattel, well, that's a show title. There you go.
Chattel. Yeah?
Dave Jones: American shit,
James Cridland: I said I. But I said, Do you have a quiet room?
Because I'm going, I need to make a one hour call. I didn't
say a podcast, because I'm not, you know, I need to make a one
hour call, and I don't want to annoy anybody else. And they
pointed me into this, into this room, and it's all, you know,
fake wood paneling and and there's, there's a guy over
there trying to do some work. So, yeah, yeah, that's basically
how it works. We'll
Adam Curry: try not to make you laugh, because he'll be looking
at you like, what is wrong with that guy? Yeah, quiet man, I'm
trying to trade. I'm day trading over here. Yeah, that'll be it.
This
Dave Jones: is a Middle English shit chatel or chattel. I think
it's, I think it's chattel. Is it movable? Movable possession,
often in plurals.
James Cridland: I don't know. I walk past a sign, and I may not
have read it correctly, everything in this hotel
confuses me. Hotel. Everything is sorry, everything in this
airport, everything in this airport, confuses me. So, yeah,
so
Adam Curry: hold on, hold on a second. How can it be worse
than, than, than Melbourne or Sydney's airport? What is so
confusing? Oh,
James Cridland: whoa. I haven't said it's worse than Sydney's
Adam Curry: been to Sydney. I have actually been to Melbourne,
and I've been to Perth with that stupid train, but that's, you
know that story?
James Cridland: Well, yes, yes, yes, exactly. I would. I would
have used that stupid train, but it doesn't go to the stupid
airport that I use at Perth, at the terminal. So yeah, anyway,
it's quite, quite enough of this. So yes, I was actually
sitting next to Todd last night at the bar, and I was getting
exactly that you were mentioning. There's no carpet.
Adam Curry: It's called grousing. Well, you know, I was
talking to to Fernando, and I don't know if he had a, you must
have had a some kind of booth. And he said he lost money on the
deal. He did sell some units, but he said he sold 500% more
than road caster because they sold nothing. Right? What? Now,
what it feels to me and and I appreciate you coming on. I know
you're not flying to later, but it's, it's kind of you to jump
in and jump in on the on the show today, because thank you
for asking. Well, you know the shopping to duty free shopping.
There's all kinds of wonderful you can get your shoes shined,
all kinds of stuff you could be doing instead of being with a
massage. You can see those massage chairs. Yeah, get your T
shirts. So to me, it felt a bit like now, first of all, I agree
with Todd a conference hall without carpet means, man, you
really were slashing the budget and but that doesn't really
matter. The timing of it is so odd, it's during the week, which
is difficult for well, it's difficult for me, because
difficult for most people. And also, school is back, which
would preclude a lot of the, I would say, just people who want
to be hanging out with other podcasters who podcast, not
necessarily, you know, maybe I don't know if you want to call I
hate the word indie, but just people who just want to be part
of what we're doing. Yeah, and that maybe they were more brown
shoes walking around selling stuff to each other. What was
your impression? Yeah.
James Cridland: I mean, I think it's much harder to get
independent podcasters, to get podcasters who do this as a side
hustle, because they've got a real job, it's very difficult to
get them to fly all the way to National Harbor and to come to a
conference that's held Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
Yeah, absolutely it is. Or rather, Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, which it was. So, yeah. I mean, you know, I think
that that's always going to be an issue. There is a pod Fest in
January, which is a good event for getting in front of those
types of creators. It happens over the weekend. It's in
Orlando. So you can take the family, you can go, you know,
and do whatever it is that you go and do in, in in Orlando. So,
yeah. So I think this is a different one in that there was
a lot of the podcast industrial complex there, yeah, there
Adam Curry: it is. Thank you. Thank you. There
James Cridland: you go. There was a lot of that going on
there, particularly on the first day, you know, the there was a
lot of that. So, so it was an interesting side to see. You
know, some of the big money in their Sirius XM stand was three
times the size of anybody else's massive. Great was it? Was
Adam Curry: it invite only?
James Cridland: It was not invite only. There were a few
invite only places. There was Spotify, which looked very, very
nice. I managed to get
Adam Curry: in there. What's on the other side of that velvet
rope?
James Cridland: Well,
Adam Curry: there's coffee snacks.
James Cridland: There are jugglers in there. There are,
you know, those people, those people with those large pine
palm leaves cooling
Dave Jones: down, slaves.
Adam Curry: Just slaves. There was some,
James Cridland: there was some, some chocolate. You said it
Adam, not me. There was some chocolate, chocolate fountains.
No, there was, there was there was there was none of that. But
it was just, it was just a nice room that they had sort of done
it up a little.
Adam Curry: What are they talking about? I mean, are they?
Are they? What is the mission of Spotify at a conference where
it's invite only. Are they looking for advertisers? Are
they looking for it?
James Cridland: It's, it's all for advertisers, all for
advertisers and their, you know, for clients, for the megaphone
side of Spotify, for the Spotify Audience Network, for all of
that kind of stuff, so and and, you know, one of the things that
I said to my Spotify contact was, this is absolutely right.
You do need a special space where you can talk to your, you
know, expensive clients, but you should also be on the on the
floor. You should also be talking to the creators as well.
And, you know, so I think that that's a little bit of a missed
opportunity. So, so there was Spotify. And I also got summoned
to the Libsyn special area,
Dave Jones: that's where they bring people out
Adam Curry: gallows or something, or like, when you sit
in there and they whip you.
James Cridland: I did feel it was miles away, absolutely miles
away the other side of the hotel, really, they had hired a
suite so that they could have the conversations with their ad
partners. And I did feel to as I was walking, you know, three,
three miles, and you know, 80 different corridors to get
there, I was thinking they could actually kill you. I it. If I if
I scream, no one will hear them. Hear me scream.
Dave Jones: You're gonna get black bags.
Adam Curry: I will say I got a lovely email from Rob Walsh, and
we're talking on Monday. He's happy. He's happy to tell me,
did you see him? By any chance? He wasn't there. Was it?
James Cridland: He wasn't there? You gonna be on the show.
Adam Curry: I haven't I he just wants to talk, so I'll chat with
him, and I'll ask him if he wants to be on the show, of
course, of course, yeah. And I love that. I love that he heard
it and that he said, Hey, let's talk. So that's great. It'll be
good. So besides the showcases and then the secret rooms and
and the booths and everything. Did you now, did you speak at
this event?
James Cridland: Yeah, I did. I did three different panels. So I
was on. I was on one panel. I moderated two panels, and I also
spoke on. I also showed lots of live demos of AI tools and stuff
like that, which is quite fun. What AI tools? Oh, you know,
there's plenty of these tools, some of the tools that get rid
of the background noise. Occasionally, if you're
listening carefully, you will hear an elevator that says going
down. So it'll get rid of all of that. And you know, tools to do.
The company, OSHA, launched a new they call it OSHA
intelligence because, of course they did, but it was a new way
of you being able to pre fill, you know, titles and
descriptions and everything else from the transcript that you
have. So all of those sorts of sorts of tools, and it's quite
fun to demonstrate some of those, live, yeah, stuff.
Sometimes the Wi Fi falls over and sometimes it doesn't. It was
only there was only one thing that didn't work, so everything
else worked. I
Adam Curry: hate doing those. We're like, well, you know, and
look over here, oh, oh, the Wi Fi. It's always the Wi Fi slow
here.
James Cridland: So some of it was so I had a I had a
transcript tool on my laptop, so I was able to show that working
really well. We went and used ouzio. I think it is one of
these song making things. And I said, make us make a song about
Podcast Movement. And it, and it made quite a decent, quite
decent song, to be honest. And so there was all of that kind of
stuff, but it was good. It was good, good fun to do. I think,
you know, if 90% of it works, then that's that. Then what were
Adam Curry: the, what were the the tracks in the sessions? Was
it a lot of how to make money, or how to do it, or what was the
main focus? Yeah,
James Cridland: there's a bunch of there's a bunch of tracks.
There is, though, there are still a fair amount of creators
who, who, who turn up. There are still lots of people that just
want to know how to do stuff and knowing how to there's the
technical side, but there's also knowing how to do a good
interview, and knowing how to plan a show out correctly, and
all of that kind of stuff that you know, that we have been
involved in the radio industry for a long, long time, kind of
innately know that actually, it's not, it's not something, if
you're brand new to it, that that you know. So, so there was
a ton of that going on. There was a ton of sort of more
advanced stuff around, uh. Um, okay, well, here's how to
monetize, here's here's how programmatic advertising works.
Here's how you know, here's what you should be doing if you want
to grow your show, grow your show. Yeah, water, grow your
show.
Adam Curry: So how about the 2.0 stuff? I mean, obviously you
were showing transcripts, any other 2.0 talk there, or, yeah,
I
James Cridland: mean, 2.0 was different. Was difficult, you
know, I bumped into quite a few people that actually came to
came to talk to me about that, because they knew that I was
there, and they knew that, and then, and then, you that I
could, you know, help them with all of that, which was good, not
too much on the schedule itself. I think it's very difficult.
It's something that I learned when I was doing working on a
different piece of tech that was all voluntary and all just
people doing it for the love of that particular industry. It's
very difficult to get conference organizers interested in that,
because at the end of, you know, where's the money, where's the
Unknown: pay to play? Yeah, okay, yeah. I
James Cridland: mean, and, to be fair, there isn't too much pay
to play at the at the conference anyway, but it's just, it's just
hard for them to understand how big it is without, you know,
having a big PR company going and going and talking to them
and everything else.
Adam Curry: We only need a big PR company to go talk to them
that'll do it well. I
James Cridland: mean, that that would be, that would be a start.
I mean, so, you know, so one of the one of the panels, for
example, that I was running, that I was moderating, I was
asked to to be moderating that particular panel by the PR
company of one of the panelists. So it was very clearly, you
know, they wanted, I mean, they obviously wanted the best
moderator in the business. They got it, yes, but unfortunately
that they could only find me, but, but, yeah, you know, so. So
what's very clear is that some of these are very corporate,
very let's make sure that you know that everything is said
correctly, and blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, there were
some really good people there talking about, you know, proper.
You know proper, you know how to use microphones, how to start a
video podcast. Lots of talk about video. Of course, as you
as you would expect, YouTube and Google were there, but they
didn't speak, you know, Spotify were there. I don't think that
they had any particular speakers there, but a lot, really,
Adam Curry: that's surprising, because the main players, as far
as I understand that in video or Spotify and YouTube, and they
didn't do much about it,
James Cridland: yeah, there was, it was left to other people to
end up talking about that, that sort of thing. So there was a
there was a speaker from Spotify who who interviewed Stephen
Bartlett Diary of a CEO who's a big name in the UK. And his
session was great. His session was really good. He was
basically sharing all of the information about how he puts
his show together. It's a really big, really big interview show,
yeah, that comes out of the UK. Here's a thing Adam that maybe
you should be doing. He has a in his studio. He has a carbon
dioxide monitor, and he stops the podcast recording if the
carbon dioxide monitor goes above 1000 because he says that
if it goes above 1000 then the interview just gets worse. You
don't get the best. You're also
Adam Curry: killing the world. I mean, come on, stop already. You
can't be That's a funny idea. It's great, yeah, that's cool.
That's actually, that's quite frustrating.
Dave Jones: He was really good. In
Adam Curry: future, gear will actually turn off. It'll be
carbon dioxide built in. And if you talk too much, they'll just
shut down. Say, you got to continue later, because, you
know, climate change. Yeah,
James Cridland: no. But he was, he was really good. And, you
know, so and the one thing you know, if, if it's of if it's of
interest, you don't have to go to Washington, DC, you don't
have to stay in the in the hotel, which was a ridiculous,
ridiculous now,
Adam Curry: where, where, where was everything in, in regard. So
let me ask it this way, did you have a chance to see our
wonderful capital and many of the monuments and buildings and
wonderful structures that are there.
James Cridland: On the Monday, I did, because I was into I was
invited to NPR to go and watch a Tiny Desk concert. Oh,
Adam Curry: that was invited to
Dave Jones: NPR. I thought they should. I didn't think they had
podcasting there anymore, because somehow they're still
number one in, like all these charts, are in the top five, and
they have basically fired everyone. It's just like all
James Cridland: fired everyone, but they've, but they've
certainly, they certainly slimmed their team down, their
team down a little bit, yeah, oh,
Dave Jones: James. They nuked that whole department. I mean,
it's very. A shell of what it used to be. It's like a It's
like somebody rolled the rock downhill, and it's still just
rolling, even
James Cridland: though there's, I did walk. I did, you know,
have a look around. You know, we were queuing up for this, for
this concert, and I, I wanted to walk around a little bit. But
they've got this beautiful, beautiful building that was open
about seven or eight years ago, and all of the desks completely
empty, and
Adam Curry: everybody's working from home, yeah, yeah. All,
James Cridland: all of the desks had a laminated sign on on the
keyboard saying clean.
Adam Curry: But I just detected something. If you come into my
Tiny Desk concert, you've got a VIP backstage pass, brother,
you're not queuing up for anything. What's wrong with
these NPR people?
James Cridland: There was still a queue. There was still a
queue, but that was, but that would, but that was good. That
was a good that was a good start. So
Adam Curry: the did Apple have any presence at the Podcast
Movement?
James Cridland: So, I mean, as you know, Apple never speaks at
any at any conference. That's not Apple's thing. There were, I
saw two people from Apple there. I understand that Apple were
grabbing podcast hosting companies and having quiet
meetings with them. Do we have any idea of their own what was
being discussed? Well, I mean, they all, they always do that.
And so I think they do share a few things of what's coming down
the road, but probably what they were really doing is explaining
how the new Apple podcasts web player, or indeed, the Android
app. Okay, so
Adam Curry: let me just, let me just say this about that. I have
some thoughts about Apple podcasts on the web. The first
one is they are trying to destroy our 2.0 community by
driving a wedge between Adam and James with this Android bet. So
I think that's the only reason they did it. I have other other
theories, but you, for some reason, have, have, have called
me a Welch on the on the bet. Well, I've listened to the pod
news weekly review when you like, well, Adam's not going to
pay up. So,
James Cridland: I mean, I think, I think Fair enough. I was
saying they'll launch an Android app, and you said they'll never
launch an Android app. And what they've essentially done, that,
was it, yeah, yeah, they've essentially done is they've
launched a PWA so you can install it as an app,
Dave Jones: yes, but it's not a PWA. It doesn't have a manifest,
right? And, by the way, it does. It does have
James Cridland: a manifesto. There's one line. There's one
that isn't, that isn't there. I have tipped the wink to the to
the guy from Apple who was there, and he said, it will get
in there, but we're a big organization. We've got to do
some QA and everything else. It's just one line in a
manifesto. It'll take a couple of weeks.
Adam Curry: James, what do you think the strat I actually do
have some thoughts about this. What do you think the strategy
is behind? Do I mean, the timing is obvious, because it's, it's
just around a podcast conference. So that makes sense.
What is the strategy behind them releasing this severely crippled
almost. PWA,
James Cridland: I think the strategy. I think there are two
parts of the of the strategy. And by the way, I do think it's
good news for podcasting 2.0 and I can explain why in a minute,
but, but I think there are two parts of the strategy. One part
is they have a lot of legacy nonsense out there. ITunes for
Windows is the only way of of of actually getting into Apple
podcasts on your Windows machine that that clearly, I mean,
that's, that's okay. That makes ridiculous, yeah, so, so this
gets rid of that. This is also a backdoor. This is a really
clever backdoor. In the same week as Apple has said that they
will take 30% of all creator payments from through Patreon,
yeah, yeah, when it's when it's done on the app, in the same
week, Apple have also launched a web app, which means that they
don't have to pay Google 30% of their premium podcast
subscriptions whenever, whenever anybody signs up. So I think, I
think that's another part of the of the strategy. It's an easy
way into the Android ecosystem without them having to go
through Google Play and get approval through Google Play and
have to pay 30% of the Google I
Adam Curry: think you're right. I think this is, this is their
trial balloon to see exactly how many people they can convert
that. On one hand, it makes sense. On the other hand, it's
kind of cutting their nose off despite their face. So I'm a
little wary of it, because, yeah, it feels to me like, well,
you know, in some kind of antitrust case, we can say you
can also just do it on the web, like we've done, we've proven it
here. You know, I have very mixed feelings about, I despise
them for not communicating, just saying, This is why we're doing
it. Yeah. Or at least lie about it, give me something you know,
other than here it is, and it's great because it's not great. It
doesn't have all the features in it, then they should say it
features coming. And on the hopeful side, I'll say, Gee,
wouldn't it be great if they tested out other things on the
website that they could then eventually move through their
molasses infrastructure and approval and QA process to bring
into their app.
James Cridland: Yeah, well, I so on that the things that the web
app doesn't do, there are only a few things that the web app
doesn't do. One of them is transcripts, for some reason,
and I don't understand why. One of them is downloads and
downloads in a web app, I'm not sure, and Dave will know more
than me on this. I'm not sure necessarily that you can
download third party files into your local storage on a web app,
cause and all of that kind of stuff. So I don't know if you
can do that.
Dave Jones: So then you can, but it's messy. You can. It's very
unpredictable. What you're going to get, because you're going to
get you can do it through look. You can do it through local
storage. But then there's a thing called set, I think it's
called Session dB. There's, there's various ways to do it.
And the new, the new, I think it's the session DB thing,
that's the newest one that can handle larger downloads. But I
think it's very unreliable about which browsers support it and
which ones actually let you do it. I mean, it's, yeah, I don't
think I like, I don't think anybody could rely on that right
now. Yeah. But,
James Cridland: and, and then there's one more thing that
Apple podcasts do, index, TV, yeah, that's right. And then
there's one more thing that Apple podcasts on the web
doesn't do, that I think may be a bit of a Trojan horse, Adam,
and that is chapters, yeah, exactly, exactly. Because right
now chapters, of course, the only chapters that Apple podcast
supports are ID three tags, right and podcasting 2.0 has
JSON chapters or super chapters, or whatever it is that we want
to call them, and that is essentially that information,
but so that your browser can actually see that, so you can,
you can actually make a much better browser experience. And
so I wonder whether Apple is now looking at the lack of chapters
because they because, I think that they do want to make it
feature, you know, to add feature, feature parity to as
much as they possibly can on the web. That will kind of make
sense. And so what does that mean for, for for chapters, are
they going to, as they did with transcripts, look around at the
podcasting, 2.0 stuff, and go, You know what? There's a there's
a standard here that we can use, and we can build, build that in,
well,
Adam Curry: very much like, very much like what they did with the
transcript. In that case, it would because I know how Apple
thinks. I believe. I'd know how they think we can't do it for
all. We don't want to do it at all. So maybe they would do
something like, Well, if we see the mp three, which would has ID
three, you know, the ID three chapters in it, then we'll
create, recreate those for cloud chapters on the web app, and if
you have your own, we'll pass those through that great. I
could see that'd be the best way, wouldn't it? Yeah. And I
would love that. That would be great, because you, because you
can put more more detail into what did you call them cloud
chapters? I
James Cridland: call them cloud chapters, yeah. So you can put,
you can put more detail into that. But if Apple, because
Apple pulls your mp three file anyway, so if Apple pulls your
mp three file and just has a look through for the ID three
chapters and makes one, yeah, that would be, that would
Adam Curry: be good invitation to anyone from Apple, if you
ever want to come and talk, maybe just have the ghost of
Steve Jobs on the show, Dave, we could do that. Yeah, we can have
the ghost of Steve Jobs because, oh, man, it's, that's just
annoying. I mean, there's such a huge community we feel, you
know, this obviously so funny. You know, we've always had these
groups, and we're always talking about stuff. We always want to
do things. And, you know, someone, the thing was, Todd,
someone subscribed me to this Whatsapp group, the podcast,
discourse hub. Oh, yeah. And so there's, there's, there's 55
people in there, and I've been subscribed to this. How long
have I since Saturday? And all it is is, hey, look, who's here.
Hey, you're here. Yeah, I'm here. Hey, everybody's here.
Wow, look at this guy. Look, I just brought in. Hey, should we
do a list of everybody here? It's like, there is zero
conversation. It's like nothing. And I'm restraining myself
because I don't want to, you know. Like, trounce all over it,
but there's nothing, I mean, the amount of discourse and
conversation we have on podcast index dot social just, oh, I
cherish it so much, yeah, because we can all just say
stuff and throw it in wacky ideas out there and work
together, and it never happens anywhere else to my knowledge.
I'm not in all the slack groups and all that, but I just rarely
see it, you know, I rarely see any, any actual work.
James Cridland: And I think, I think, to be honest, that's one
of the things that Podcast Movement does very well, in
that, though there were a lot of, you know, I spent some time
with the Buzzsprout guys. Lips was there, always good. But
blueberry were there. There was a bunch of other folks, OSHA and
a bunch a bunch of other folks, the RSS guys were there, Ben,
Ben and Alberto, and so it's a great time for everyone to talk
about stuff, you know. And the people who were there from from
Apple, they were in the bars. They were chatting to people,
you know. Or were they paying
Adam Curry: for drinks? Are they paying for drinks or just
consuming
James Cridland: I think, I think, Well, I think people were
paying them for drinks, to be honest, Brother,
Dave Jones: brother, you know, biggest company in the world, by
James Cridland: the way. I will. Yes, I know. I know exactly,
exactly, but no, you know. So I think that that's a really
useful thing. It's always good. We shouldn't underestimate No,
Adam Curry: no, it's it's always good to get together just, and I
don't want to only talk about the conference, but again, it's
great that you were there, and we get a piggyback off of, off
of your your attendance. I'm concerned personally about what
Spotify for podcasters is doing with with their hosting, free
hosting offering. Now, as I've learned from from pod News Daily
and the weekly review, they are actively advertising, which is
totally their right to do. They can do whatever, bastards, but
I'm a little, I'm a little concerned about that. You know,
do you see that? First of all, do you think there's uptake that
they are taking away people from the beautifully distributed,
hands on infrastructure that we have, which I would always
recommend to someone over a big company, particularly for
hosting. And do you think it's the uptake is hurting the
existing hosting industry? I
James Cridland: mean, certainly when you look at so there's a
page on the pod news website which shows people migrating
from one podcast host to another, and the winner every
single time is a Spotify company. Now that might be
Spotify for podcasters, the podcast host used to be called
Anchor, or it might be megaphone, but it's one of those
two companies who always takes the majority of the, you know,
of people who are moving away from other other podcast hosts,
and that's that's a concern. I think. Now, of course, the
reason why people are doing that may be that they've lost
interest in their show, and therefore it's free, and it's a
free place to put it. But, yeah, I think that that is a concern.
And I think what's more of a concern is, if Spotify doesn't
care about the little people, then you know, what does that
say about Spotify overall? If the only thing that Spotify does
in these events is to have their own private space where, if
you're a normal podcaster, you can't go and talk to them. You
have to have an invitation. You have to be, you know, you have
to be part of, part of the club, or you have to be big enough,
right? And I think that that's, I just think that that that's a
misstep. And I agree this.
Adam Curry: I agree it's, it's a mistake. I mean, I'm none of my
shows are on Spotify. I refuse to sign a contract to be, you
know, to be on Spotify. I'm just not going to, I don't care what
it is either, you know, you take my feed and you take everybody's
feed freely. And as an aside, it has not hurt me at all.
James Cridland: I don't Yes, and and so here's the thing, and not
something that very many people have realized the buzz sprout,
official podcast, buzzcast is not on Spotify, yeah, and
they've made that very, very clear why they're not on
Spotify. And I, you know, it's interesting seeing many other
podcast hosts who've put their official, you know, official
show on the Spotify platform. And they're thinking, and look
Adam Curry: at what happened. Look at what happened in was it
South America? Was it was it Mexico? Yeah, all of a sudden,
well, we're not going to pay anybody anymore, and the same in
Italy, by the way, because Italy just blew up last summer. All of
a sudden, everyone's talking about podcasts, and that was.
Because Spotify did this huge push, they started paying
people, and they're pulling back. You should, that's a
that's a tip for the for your news, and they're doing the
exact same thing, and it destroys everything, because
people just think, oh, podcasting is on Spotify, and
they don't realize that you can get it somewhere else because of
the marketing push. And they're just like the, you know, 400
pound gorilla trouncing around, and, you know, then they walk
out and they leave everybody high and dry.
James Cridland: Yeah. I mean, I spent some time with the OP
three stats earlier on in the year, just looking at how big
Spotify was in various countries. And, you know, I
mean, Colombia, Spotify has 92% of all of all down exactly,
exactly. I mean, it is, it is absolutely massive. And so for
Spotify to spend a lot of money in getting new shows made, and
then all of a sudden pull the rug from all of those people is,
is really difficult. Well, I think we don't, we don't
appreciate, actually, how big Spotify is outside of, Oh, I do.
I do, and the UK and, yeah, but I also, I also feel
Adam Curry: it's, it's a good cleansing because I know from
the music business that people who really want a certain type
of content, they will beg, borrow, steal, do whatever they
need to do to get it. They will sit by the radio with the pause
button and the cassette deck for hours to wait until that song
comes on. You know, this is old school. Of course, you talk over
it as the day. I was very hated by that and so it will cleanse
out the industry and people who are saying, oh, man, I really
like that show, they will go and find it elsewhere. They will
find it. I mean this so that in that regard is good. I'm also
distraught, honestly distraught, but I knew it was going to
happen about the afropods, you know, and here's my and maybe
have more insight into this. But there was, what, 4000 podcasts
being supported, essentially, I think, by well intentioned
people who had budget, corporate budgets to spend on stuff to
make their corporation look inclusive. And that money went
away because money goes away and they just dropped it.
James Cridland: Yeah? This is Africa podfest. Yeah? The
podfest, yes, yeah, so this is an afropods, which is a network.
This is, yeah, this is there. It was a, it was a podcast festival
which lasted for four years. And, yeah, worked with over 4000
podcasters, advocated for African podcasting on the world
stage, which is one problem that you know, and I would tell you
more, but substack is currently performing a scheduled
maintenance.
Adam Curry: There you go. Thanks, scheduled, scheduled
today. Yeah,
James Cridland: I would doubt you say it is. But anyway, yeah,
and and so and so. I think you know that that was a really
useful organization, because it pulled together all of the
African show. And to be honest, Africa has a real problem in
that many of the countries in Africa, data is so, so, so
expensive, yeah, yeah, which is where the alternate enclosure
comes in. Because the the the alternate enclosure really,
really helps, and pod LPS support of that yeah, means
that, you know, it's just opening up podcasting for new
people to have a listen. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I was worried about pod LP for a while because I
just didn't hear any Yeah. And then, and then he popped up and
said he was, he had been in the middle of converting everything
to to rely on more on the index, I guess he gets his expenses
down and that kind of thing. And so that was good to see that
he's still alive and, you know, and kicking. Yeah, really
James Cridland: good. And, and he's now available on more
phones as well, more more of these smaller phones. So, yeah,
no, I think, I think he's, I get to drop that.
Dave Jones: I can tell you, I just don't understand, in
general, Spotify for podcasters. I don't know. I understand why
they may just leave it as a legacy product that exists for a
long time with no maintenance. I could understand that, but to go
in and start pushing it again, that product just makes no sense
to me, and it never, it didn't when it was anchor. It really
doesn't now, it's got to be costing them a fortune. In 99%
of the podcasts on Spotify, for podcasters, are truly just stuff
that it will never get a single listen by anybody, anywhere,
that is just, it's just a money hole. And I don't understand how
they're cutting back. Sort of, they've, they've really cut back
a lot of the profligate, profligate spending within their
podcast push, but they're keeping this thing alive. And it
is just, it's just confusing to me.
James Cridland: Yeah, I think that that's probably fair. I
would say, um. Anchor itself. I did do some work. When was this?
2020? I did some work on how much anchor is costing Spotify
in terms of bandwidth, which I thought was vaguely interesting.
So that's it's doing 7.7 terabytes of data every, every,
every week, no, every month, every month, which, which adds.
So I worked it out in terms of Spotify whole bandwidth spill,
because obviously Spotify has a lot, a lot a lot of music on
there as well, and it adds an extra 1% onto Spotify. It's
really not that much.
Adam Curry: I have my stepdaughter here. She's 27 we
flew her for she's had a knee operation, she's been here for
10 weeks, and she'll be leaving again soon. We love her, but we
want our life back. And we flew in her, her roommate from New
York, who was kind of our fourth daughter, Mackenzie, and she's
same age, and they were talking because they've all moved to
Apple Music. And the reason why? Can you guess the reason why?
James, no, go for it. They were a being between Apple Music and
Spotify, and felt that the quality of the sound on Spotify
was inferior to Apple Music. Oh, wow. And that's where you save
on that's what, by the way, that's what Sirius XM does. I
know that business quite well. Yeah, they have a lot of higher
bandwidth channels and a lot of stuff. They put on very, very,
very narrow bandwidth, yeah, yeah, just to, just to squash it
onto the Yeah, to be able to fit it all in. So it seems to me
like, although I'm, I'm with you, James, no one cares. I
thought no one cared about it, because, you know, when MP
threes came around, I was even skeptical. Like, wow, man, this
is, this is really degradation of quality. But once people had
it in their ears and they got used to it, it was okay. But
when you and you know, Apple should this is a marketing tip
for Apple, because they clearly are doing something at a higher
bit rate, or whatever it is, and I haven't investigated it, but
these are just two girls who are music enthusiasts, and they're
like, Oh no, no. This sucks. Clearly Apple Music. And then
they don't know why. They're like, it sounds better. Okay,
yeah,
James Cridland: so I played around with Apple Music for a
while, and you can turn it up to 11. You can turn it up to Apple.
Apples, they've got this thing, which they call lossless audio.
Yeah, lossless, yeah, yeah, and and that, and that sounds
amazing. And if you do that, you turn off the the volume
equalization thing, and you turn off the spatial audio, which is
madness, but you turn all of that stuff off, it does sound
fantastic. It does sound really, really good. But yeah, so you've
got the you've got the interesting thing of, we've just
been talking about Africa and the cost of bandwidth, where
actually you need to make stuff as small as possible. And then
there are people on there high end speakers who just want
really, really good sound, yeah? But I mean, if you're going to
put, if you're going to put both the output of Spotify or of
Apple music through some bluetooth headphones, then
you're already squeezing it down, yeah, absolutely, pretty
small pipe as well. Of course. Just
Adam Curry: want to run through a few things, 2.0 related. The
first is I was a little saddened I started promoting because I
always promote the modern podcast apps on no agenda is a
reasonably big audience. I look at the OP three stats, you can
see the very high amount of people using pod verse and
fountain. But really, I mean, I think Apple is like 30% and all
the rest is just all other apps. And I started promoting the
funding tag, which, you know, there's all kinds of reasons
why. I mean, no agenda. Obviously, we do take
boostagrams, we do take streaming SATs, but we give all
that away. All of it is split to other people, to people who help
the show. It's basically, it's a value for value loop. It just
goes right back to other people. Our main source of value for
value is PayPal and Stripe and checks actually about 40% and of
course, we're an American podcast, 40% of our value for
value. People send us paper checks. People send us cash.
People send us gold and silver, nut jobs. But we'll take it
doesn't matter. We'll count, hey, we count dollar reduce from
Australia and dollarettes from Canada, one for one. So even
though you haven't actually given us money to become a
knight, we'll let you become a knight. But besides that, I was
surprised how few of the apps actually have the funding tag
surfaced. And I and especially with Patreon and the ability to
say, hey, just use your modern podcast that, I mean, it is very
it. It removes a step, similar to a boostogram, where you don't
have to go to a browser, go to, in our case, no agenda
donations.com you can just hit that button. And I would really
implore everybody to consider surfacing the funding tag, maybe
even say donate. You know, donate to this podcast or
whatever, because it's, it's really, Surely not. It's very
See, this is why I like you, James, don't worry. I've got one
teed up for you. It's coming. Don't worry, it's coming. Oh,
here we go. So I know pod, but my daily driver, podcast guru
doesn't have it. I'm like, what this is, this is an atrocity.
It's really a shame. So
James Cridland: way, way, way back in 2018 Marco Arment, who
makes overcast, of course, he supported the idea of this
payment link and what he was doing. And I thought this was
just really neat and really clever. He was just looking
through any just shows, yeah, just grabbing something, yeah,
yeah. Just, he was just looking for a link for to Patreon, or a
link to a few other places, or a rel equals payment. I think it
was a bit, it was a bit clutchy, but it meant that there were a
ton of these things. And he added this big green payment
button, which clearly linked to donation pages. Everybody jumped
into supporting it. So Omni studio supported it fireside,
which was a podcast host back then, I think still is supported
that anchor, even anchor, said that they would support it, and
then Marco pulled it out. And you know why he pulled it out?
Because he was, he was worried that Apple would charge 30%
Adam Curry: Yeah, I don't think Apple will do that,
Dave Jones: because, because of the because of the thing that
most, that many people don't understand, which is just
because, well, number one, you, you're not allowed, I think, by
App Store rules, to put a link to an external payment system,
or at least at the time you weren't. I think you can now see
that that that's that's one thing that has changed. I think
the App Store rules have been relaxed, so now you are able to
provide a link to an external payment system, but, well,
you're not,
Adam Curry: but holy, you're not technically linking to another
payment system. Do I just want you to go to my donation page,
Dave Jones: right? And so that the See, there's, there's the
ambiguity that happens where, you know, you think it's one
thing, but then Apple shows up and says, Hey, that's, that's
this other thing. And then you have to just argue it out and
hope they, hope that they side with you. Well, I would
Adam Curry: like people to try it, you know, I would do put
that back in because, I
James Cridland: mean, he was, he was just concerned that this
would be a reason for Apple to block a new release of overcast.
Because, you know, the new intern who's, who's got the job
of checking whether or not overcast is following all of the
rules suddenly sees a green payment link, and thinks and
thinks, no, this clearly breaks the rules. And so, you know, he
saw it as a risk, and so unfortunately, got rid of that.
And I think, you know, for overcast particularly, to have
supported it, because it's such a large, independent app, that
was a real that that was a real shame. But, you know, I mean,
obviously that's going to be one of those things, but if we
could, I agree. How about the funding tag is super good.
Wouldn't it be great if Apple supported it on their web
player? Well, yes, but then I suppose that would be the
question around payment links and is this payment, you know,
where's the Apple Pay logo and where's Arthur? Is there
anything
Dave Jones: see here? Here's the Well, here's part of that,
because that's, that's part of the issue is that there's no
sense that I can find, there's no sense in which there's a
differentiation between, between buying something and in a
donation, like it's pay, there's, there's a very there's,
there's no difference there is in terms of App Store rules and
guidance and that sort of thing, yeah, because you one, one is,
you know, one one is, I'm paying to have access to this content.
And the other is, I just want to give you some money, which
that's, you know, nobody's ever going for instance, if you had a
donation to some charitable organization, I don't think
Apple is going to force itself into that, into that payment.
Say, we're going to take 30%
Adam Curry: they're not, they're not that crazy, by the way. Stop
the presses. True fan supports the funding tag. Just want you
to know Sam Sethi is listening. He donated 7777 you heard the
heart playing, just so you know, true fan supports it,
James Cridland: by the way, so does the pod news website as
well. Yes, we support the fun. Fantastic. Yes, you do
customatic
Dave Jones: supports it, and customatic supports it, and it's
been in the app store for as long as I can. Well,
Adam Curry: I'm so now I do what I always do pain. So I will only
be promoting apps that support the funding tag. I'm just full
of pain. Congratulations. We got episode.fm soon, very soon, any
minute now, will be available for all podcasts in the index.
You will not need to have an apple. GUID, is that correct?
Dave, am I understanding this correctly?
Dave Jones: Yes, that's right, Apple and iTunes ID, iTunes,
yes. So what, what what Nathan's going to be doing is putting and
this is actually going to help us a bunch. He's going to be
making it where episodes.fm can link you in the URL using a base
64 encoded Feed URL. So you can just encode that thing, pass it
along, and then it just comes up, and that immediately helps
the activity pub bridge, because then I can take out all that
messiness in those things, in the postings that come from the
bridge and where you have, like, all, you know, all those badges,
or whatever you want to call them, why?
James Cridland: Why would just not use the good?
Dave Jones: I think there was a reason. I think he explained it
once before, and I don't remember exactly we thought
Adam Curry: about it previously, and we can't remember it was so
complicated, so it was just good to go 64 base encoded is the
way. Is the way. I love it though. I think episode.fm is
one of the best improvements we have put into the podcast
ecosystem in a long, long time. It's i. So not all my podcasts
are on on Apple iTunes, but it's so beautiful. I mean, just to
just as a link, you know, to say, Hey, listen to this. Sam
again. No, I don't think so. Listen, listen to this episode.
And no, it's once told Kyle, listen to this episode and
select your your player. And then, hey, if you want have it,
always select your favorite player. It's it's something
that's been long, long, long overdue and needed. And I'd also
like to know how, how episode.fm is going to stay alive. I mean,
is it? Is it going to be value for value based How? How is he
going to make money? How is he going to Yeah, I
James Cridland: mean, I don't know that. By the way, it's
episodes FM with an S on the end, but I don't know whether
episodes FM is a costs an awful lot to host and to run, so maybe
it doesn't need to stay alive too well.
Adam Curry: I want to support it,
James Cridland: so there should be a donation link in there, in
Fiat or stats or cash, stats or cash. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I'm happy to put a split in anything. It's a
beautiful, beautiful system. Now, since we're kind of talking
about activity, pub, etc, James, I know you're not just a
podcaster, but you, I believe you're still an advisor. Nostr
in Fountain released. What do you know about sizing, isn't it?
Well, as much as you. So I, you know, I have not used nostr in a
long time. I have, obviously, I have a pub key. I was able to, I
was able to find it and put it into to fountain and and so it
worked. And I'm still kind of trying to figure out what it is
before I give my thoughts. Have you played around with it, James
or Dave? Have you played around with it yet?
Dave Jones: Yeah. I have, yeah. I have the I was able to, I
guess, the the thing that hit me at the beginning was that, I
mean, I understand what he's doing, and it's not confusing or
anything at all to me. I guess it's What's is it sort of like,
once it presents you with a, sort of like an, I don't know,
it gets in your way a little bit. Is, which was what I kind
of was confused about because it says Connect existing nostra
profile or create one. I guess I kind of wished that I just
already had one, and then it just started to work right it? I
don't, you know, it's sort of, I guess it's like a little bit of
a nitpicky thing, but I kind of wish that it said, hey, you've
already that, basically already had one created by fountain
itself. And then, since they're so easy to generate, it's just a
key pair. And then the thing, maybe there was a thing at the
top that said, you know, hey, you're if you want to switch to
your if you want to use your own master profile, yeah, yeah.
Like, I kind of, rather than sort of. Forcing me into like a
path where I had to choose something. I don't know that's
just my first thought, but I have lots of thoughts about the
downstream activity over them. James,
James Cridland: I have not tried it because I've been busy doing
other things. But I mean, you know, is this, is this a
replacement to streaming sets. Is
Adam Curry: that discussion? Yeah, that was my that was my
confusion as well. The way I understand it, and so, what is
okay? A couple things. So the way I understand it is, if
someone boosts you in the fountain app and you have a
profile, then that boost will also show up on your nostr
timeline, which I think is kind of cool. When I look at fountain
itself, you really have if you're not a nostr user, I don't
think you get any of the benefit, because what I'm able
to, you know, now, I go to my nostr profile, see people
commenting on an episode. The zaps, I think, are basically
just paid likes, which they already had. So you don't, you
can't, as far as I know, you can't, right? You can't zap an
episode from nostr and have that go through your splits, which is
kind of what I thought would happen, but I don't see any
evidence of that. So
James Cridland: it's really adding a social Yes, social
network, yes in and if you happen to be on nostr, and you
have to have a bunch of friends on nostr, yes, all talking about
Bitcoin and beef milkshakes, then you can, you know, connect
with all of those on the fountain app and that, and that
makes sense? I think
Adam Curry: yes. And so that brings me to my point. It's
because of the nature of the community on noster now in my
home feed on fountain. It's very Bitcoin centric, yeah, and so
that is a little irksome. I understand it because, and also
there's a lot of reboosting. And so I see things multiple times
like none of bidness keeps posting about the fountain app
now with noster. You know, it's, it's, it's a little, it's not as
diverse, coming from me, that's funny. It's not as diverse. And,
you know, I can hit, just hit podcasts and only see the latest
episodes or music, I mean, so that's, that's totally you can
filter it out, but I'd like it to just be more, you know, my
friends, I mean, it's okay, it's nice. I'm scrolling through, oh,
there's, there's a Bible verse, because I know the person I
follow, the person on nobster who posts that, like, Oh, that's
nice. But then it's like, Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin,
Bitcoin. And it just seems like, you know, the this type of
integration will. I'd like to be able to change that. So I don't
mind the protocol integration, but I'd like to be able to
change it. And maybe this is and that's immediately what people
like Marty bent and other people have been, have been DMing me
and saying, hey, you know we can bridge this with activity, pub,
so they're already thinking that way, which I think is good, and
I think that that, and I believe, Dave, you were already
thinking along those lines, the ones Oscar got this all up and
running, we would bridge it, and then you can bridge activity,
pub through, is that in the future? Yeah.
Dave Jones: Well, I think, yeah, fountain chat, F has a good,
just as a good, simple statement about that in the in the chat in
the boardroom, he says it moves the social aspect of fountain
onto noster. And I think that's probably what Oscar was really
wanting to do, was offload a lot of that stuff he was doing
proprietarily in in Fountain, and move it on to nostr to sort
of get it off his system. And they and let's be honest,
Fountain has a huge Bitcoin base, and so Master is, yeah,
they have a huge Bitcoin fan base. So that made sense for
them. You know, true I find, I find it interesting that uh, Sam
also released true fans, same time activity post that was next
on the list, yes, yeah, this week, which is exciting to me,
because of, you know, I'm already deep in the AP
ecosystem, and what I what I see is, and it works by the way
they, you can follow, and they don't have, they have not
flipped the switch on, sort of outputting the the activity, the
actions into your stream yet, but you can at least follow your
cell, your true fans, user as a activity, pub, timeline. What
Adam Curry: would make sense to me is if I can log and I'm okay
with doing this per app, I don't really mind it. If I can go to.
True fans and say, okay, connect my existing activity pub profile
to my account on true fans. I don't necessarily want another
Mastodon, an activity pub account. Is that something that
he already has, or is that coming? Is that even on his
roadmap, he'll, he'll boost, I'm sure, and let us know. But
Dave Jones: yeah, but I think, well, they already know you.
There's already a place in true fans to put your, to put your,
your current activity pub user account in there. Okay, see, I'm
of the opposite opinion, like when I go to another activity,
pub, like, I don't want to carry my ID around with me everywhere,
because, like my it feels distinct to me, like what I'm
doing in podcast index, dot, social David podcast induct,
social user account, that thing I want to keep that thing
isolated and clean to what it's supposed to be. Then I go over
here to this other to true fans or to fountain. And I want
different IDs over there. I'll make them look the same, but I
don't want that. I want to be able to pick and choose what
cross pollinates across the feta verse or the nostr verse, or
whatever you want to call it. So, I mean, I can, like, what I
would rather have is some my user presence over here in true
fans being output as activity pub. And then I can choose to
like when we when we figure out how to bridge these things. I
can choose what flows through the bridge, over to nos, over to
fountains, nostra relay, and then back, back and forth. I
think I don't. I'm still of the opinion that I have been for,
for a long time, that whether it's noster or activity pub, the
the future is bridging protocols, because they're just,
it's just obvious that there's no there's not going to be one
social protocol that's going to like win, so to speak. There's
going to be, well, because you have blue sky in there too, blue
Sky's got a pretty big user base. So, I mean, there's,
there's and that's also open. So we can bridge these. We're, I
think we're just going to have to become comfortable with the
fact that we're bridging these things together. And if Fountain
has a huge if it's got a lot of activity going on over there on
their nostr relay, I'm fine with pulling that stuff back into
activity pub so that everybody else can see it. I think that's
just that seems the wise thing to do to me.
Adam Curry: Well, what it certainly taught me, just using
this for the past day or two, is that I do enjoy a nice harp. I
do enjoy the I'm gonna have to take out that triple seven. I do
enjoy the flow into a social network. It makes a lot of sense
to me. I like that I could, I would like to see that stuff
show up on my psyopshop.com account, because that's where I
just do other stuff where I like, I don't want it on my
podcasting next on social. And so there's definitely something
here that that is, I think, compelling and and people will,
will, will, will gravitate towards, yeah. I
Dave Jones: think Eric PP is right. The important thing is
that activity is that the activity is now out there, yeah,
just, just like. The important thing with podcasting 2.0 is
that there's now hundreds of 1000s of podcast feeds that use
the tags. That's that if you don't have that first, then
you're dead, nothing. It doesn't matter how much you want it,
right? Nobody's going to write apps that include features for
content that doesn't exist. So the you know, to me, the the
more interesting question is, and this is a philosophical
question, a technological question, between nostra and
activity pub, when we went down this road before. And I think, I
think James, I think you know enough about activity pub to to
sort of have to, to have an opinion on this. Um, the you
know what we what we went down before, was when you talk about
activity pub, when it comes to things like cross app comments
or just pushing activity out from in a podcast specific
context. Do you create a new quote, unquote language of
activity, pub, action, streams, activity,
Adam Curry: stream and sound, verbs? Yeah,
Dave Jones: like verbs or and objects waiting
James Cridland: for you to say verbs, talking about verbs,
Dave Jones: I'm baiting Sam to send another boost the so if but
do you because what? What I was told when I started thinking
about architecting sort of this activity, pub. Language around
podcast specific actions was, hey, don't do that. You know, I
was quickly told by the, by the the activity pub wizard beards
don't do, don't create new things. Just send everything out
as a note with a media object
James Cridland: attaching that. That's probably, I mean, I, you
know, you, you were saying earlier that you like your
identities to be a little bit separate. And I think that, you
know, I mean, certainly I've got, I've have a personal email,
I have a work email. I really don't like people sending me
press releases to my personal email. I get quite grumpy about
that. Similarly, on fediverse, I think you can see that, you
know, I've got, I've got a My normal fed averse account, and
then I've got a Fed averse account, which is, or I could
sign up for a Fed averse account on pixel fed. And pixel Fed is
very much around photographs. And if you want to follow my
photographs, and you could go and do that similarly. I think,
I think having the choice of being able to filter out the
stuff around my podcast listening, you know, is
important as well. And maybe, frankly, verbs are part of that.
You know, if instead of just everything being as notes for me
to be able to have something where, you know, I'm posting a
photograph. Now that is a different verb I am pressing,
pressing play on on the feed. Now that is a that is a
different verb, then that should allow clients to be able to
filter that kind of stuff out so that I follow Dave Jones on on
the fediverse, but I don't get his posts about such and such,
or his photographs, because that's not why I am following
him. You see what I mean? Right,
Dave Jones: right? Yeah, for sure. And that I've fighting
that. I fight that battle all the time on Mastodon, with
people that I follow that I want their technical I want their
technical posts because I, I, yeah, they have a lot of good
technical information to post, but then they also sprinkle in
tons of politics. And I'm trying to, like, keyword, filter that
stuff out, because I don't want that on my timeline. Yeah, and
that, that's repost.
Adam Curry: Reposts are the worst. See that that, yes,
Dave Jones: in, in, I don't it even goes, but it goes before,
you know, farther than that, into the technical, uh, sort of
the technical rabbit hole of, like what you said with verbs,
you know, you can the activity pub language. And this is a
catch 22 that every technology and open source protocol gets
into it is the activity pub language was meant to be
extensible the protocol itself, but you rapidly hit a situation
where there's one dominant platform, which is Mastodon, and
nobody wants to extend beyond that, because if I put In a new
verb, then it's not going to quote, show up in Mastodon,
because all Mastodon understands is
Adam Curry: notes, podcasts like that,
Dave Jones: or Apple podcast, right? You can't, well, I'm not
going to do chapters because it doesn't show up in Apple
podcasts. Or I'm not going to do and so there's this, there's
this, but I think you part of me nostr is young enough to where
it's not suffering from this, because it's still people are
creating 10 new nips every every five minutes for all these news
features that they want, because nothing has been set in stone.
Yet there is no Mastodon equivalent in the noster world.
So it's still being able to evolve. And I think, I really
think the right way for this is to push through that barrier and
and this may be wrong. I'm not ready to die on this hill, but I
feel like doing AP correctly means taking it at its word,
just like we did with RSS and putting a namespace in just to
extend its functionality, and just doing it if Mastodon can't
see the post, well, then, I mean, who cares? Whatever.
James Cridland: I would agree with that. And I think, you
know, Mastodon shouldn't be seeing James. Press pause on
this podcast. James. Press Well,
Adam Curry: James, don't worry, because on true fans, that's all
been taken care of.
James Cridland: It's always taken care of. Everything is
taken care of. I know FM, that's what
Adam Curry: is there. All right, gentlemen, I'm going to break
this party up for just a second. Going to play a little bit of
music to give us a pause here. We will be back. This is from
the value verse of using a modern podcast app. Please boost
and tell them you heard it on podcasting 2.0 it's Chris winsky
with banjo, and you belong to.
Unknown: Everything they say, use a light from the Sun
to carry out your dreams away.
You be alone just because you belong, just because
we belong, just because there were pride. Singing.
I was catching a falling star in my dreams. In my
dreams, Rado, away,
beautiful in between, you'll be alone just because You
us, you belong, just because
we belong, just because
Adam Curry: sing. Chris winsky, you belong. Get a strong Holly's
vibe there, from the from the harmony. It's like you belongs.
Anyway,
Dave Jones: gave me just enough time during the song to try to
desperately figure out what this thing is that John Spurlock has
built this activity, the
Adam Curry: browser. Great. I'm browsing. I can debug it. I can
debug stuff. And
Dave Jones: he dropped it right before the show like, I mean,
browser dot, horrible thing to do.
Adam Curry: Yes, browser dot, pub, by the way. If you want to
boost Chris Wen, you can always rewind go, but you can even
pause it, just pause it right in the middle of that song, and
then boost them. I've found that's very helpful. People seem
to like think that they can't boost anymore if it's gone.
That's the beauty of a podcast. You can go back and do it later.
It lives on forever. I love the banjo in this, yeah, I never get
too much banjo.
Dave Jones: This looks this, yeah, see so this looks like you
can just drop anything in to the browser, to the activity, pub
browser. You know, we'll just show you all the guts.
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's just, it's
James Cridland: another really helpful thing, just, just to
debug
Adam Curry: stuff for debugging. Yes, exactly. I debug so much.
It's great. I'm happy.
Dave Jones: I mean, like, if you've written, if you've gone
down the activity pub, red rabbit hole of wondering,
beating your head against the wall, run, wondering why
something is not working. This is a lifesaver. You'll be highly
Adam Curry: happy with the debugging. Yes, yes. So I didn't
get any wallet demo from Oscar, but that's kind of
understandable. I guess
Dave Jones: he's clearly been busy with the nostr stuff. Yeah,
so I think that's, I mean, we're getting there. I mean, we're,
hopefully we're going to talk to the light Spark,
Adam Curry: yeah, you know that's in the middle of my
vacation. You might have to do that one yourself, Dave, I don't
know if you, if you mind?
Dave Jones: Okay, that's fine. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I'm sorry. You sound very protruded. Well, that's
fine. It's fine. I do do whatever you need to. Fine.
Dave Jones: I'll do it. I'm
Adam Curry: fine. I'm fine. That's good.
Dave Jones: No, that's good. I don't mind doing that at all. Or
we can just, you know, wait to get back or whatever. Yeah, that
matter to me. I'll see what they want to do. I'm good either way.
But, I mean, hope sounds like they have solution there that
could, uh. That could be a, an addition to, you know, the out
the Alby, yeah, management, well, they
Adam Curry: they have a they clearly have an API, which is
great. Still
Dave Jones: waiting on Zebedee to contact me.
Adam Curry: What is wrong with those people? That was, we're
here with clients, with customers.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. I just need somebody to contact me. I
don't know who. I don't remember the name of the I could just
pretend if I, if I remembered her first name, Zebedee makeup
email address, yeah, the Zebedee
Adam Curry: lady, yeah, exactly. And are we good now on the V for
V license, I did? We go through enough iterations, which came
right after Alex gates caught a whole bunch of really good
stuff.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think, I think, I think
we are, Sam mentioned that the short code name we had in place
for the V for free license was different than what he was
using, but so I'll just make it match what his says. Okay,
doesn't matter, all right, good. That's fine. But I think that's,
hopefully that's done, and then we can move on to better things.
Because the licensing stuff is just making me angry. You know,
just a bunch of reading legal stuff
Adam Curry: in all kinds, just the worst favorite, yeah, it's
just the worst. James, you're flying back home now.
James Cridland: Yes, I'm flying back home now and then. Yes, but
I've got a whole quarter full of speaking engagements. I'll be
all over the place. No,
Adam Curry: well, do tell where you going. This is your James's
promo tour. Where are you going to be? Oh, is
James Cridland: this Sam and James's week? Where am I going?
Adam and James's week? So yeah, so I'm going to well, so some of
the ones that I'm looking forward to podcast day, which is
podcast Asia, which is happening in Kuala Lumpur in two weeks, we
should be really good, which is a whole day of that. And the
weirdest one that I'm looking forward to is it's a Pacific
island called new way, and this isn't spelled confirmed. Is
Adam Curry: that one of those, I U, E? Is that one of those that
we blew up in World War Two, still nuclear? Either you
James Cridland: did or we did, but, yeah, but anyway, and so,
yeah. And so there's a big media conference there. I say it's a
big media conference. The the island is tiny. It has 1700
people who live there. Wow. And I've said, and I've said, Look,
I I'll come, but I've got a day job to do, so I need Internet
access. But if the Internet access is good, then I'll go.
Turns out that the Internet access is better than the home
because, of course, it is and Yeah, except they say there is
one flight in and out a
Adam Curry: week. Oh, don't miss it. Don't miss it.
James Cridland: We're gonna be stuck on an island in the middle
of the Pacific for a week. You know, that's gonna be fun. I
Adam Curry: have an unfortunate I have no need for one. But that
Starlink mini man, that thing is pretty amazing. Oh yeah, that
looks good. I mean, I even heard, although there were some
I'll say it glitches. But Todd and Rob were on his his regular
Starlink, it
Unknown: did pretty well.
Adam Curry: I was surprised the low latency. I mean, I've always
been quite worried about the latency. You know, these things
aren't actually in space. I've seen them fly over my house.
It's the weirdest thing. You see this line of lights just flying
on. They don't look like they're very high up. But I'm sure
that's just perception. But
Dave Jones: I mean, could that be an add on to the curry one
starter? Yes, and
Adam Curry: you get Yes. James Islanders, when I send you the
promo package with your gold plated microphone, yes and and
your pod mobile and your three month three subscription to
hosting along with a Starlink Mini, there you go. That's it.
Add on packs, Buy and buy now, all stocks
James Cridland: last, yes, exactly. That's what we need.
That's what we know. We do need to send me a press release.
Yeah, okay,
Adam Curry: I'll send you, I'll make, I'll send you a press
release. Here's your press release. Take a gold microphone.
Are you still using that, that light LIDAR microphone?
James Cridland: Yes, I'm using a when I'm at home, not, not here?
No,
Adam Curry: no,
James Cridland: it's a thing. I forget the brand, the brand
name, but it's got a it's got a laser inside it, laser inside
it. And when you so when you lean, when you're close to it,
it changes the sound to when you're further away. So
Adam Curry: it's the what's the name of it? The LeWitt is a
LeWitt, isn't it blue? Absolutely
Dave Jones: correct.
James Cridland: Absolutely correct. So you like that. I
used to use annoyment A long, long time ago. One of you know,
one of the reasons why I like it is that it's a side address,
mic, not a and. Dress my mic,
Adam Curry: I got a spitter. You like? You like the side address,
right? Huh?
James Cridland: Only because I do quite a lot of video talking
to people, and side address mics mean that you can that your face
can be seen, whereas any dress Mike's is just a little bit it's
a little bit harder. You're like tonight,
Adam Curry: it's not you like the curry valve mic. We're going
to come up with a valve mic. Oh yeah.
James Cridland: Well, that'll that. That'll work in carry on
luggage, won't it?
Dave Jones: What's a valve mic? Valve inside it.
Adam Curry: James, explain what a valve mic is.
James Cridland: Oh, wow. I am, I am so not up with with Mike
technology, but it's the valve made of glass. Is that? Is that?
How?
Adam Curry: Usually gold, really? Yeah, I think it's made
of gold. So, yeah, yeah. Or there's gold in the valve. I
believe it's a, it's a premium, premium product.
Dave Jones: This is the entire Curry One lineup. Yes.
Adam Curry: I mean, I'd love to do a ribbon microphone. I'd love
to do all kinds of stuff. I mean, yeah, carbon, a carbon
micro carbon mic, yeah, well, it'll have a little carbon
dioxide monitor on it, and it'll just shut off
Dave Jones: when the level goes high enough. They're all carbon
Mike,
Adam Curry: so before we thank some people, James as a radio
futurologist. Oh, here we go. Well, I like the term. I have
some thoughts, but I'd like to, I'd like to know your thinking
on specifically, where is radio in all of this? Where is radio
in general, in the world of on demand, media, podcasting. I
mean, obviously it's still a huge business. I mean, just like
many cables not going away tomorrow either. But where do
you think they stand, and what is the industry? What are they
lost? Do they have ideas? Are they moving in a certain
direction? What is your what's your take? So
James Cridland: I think, I think the difficulty for radio
broadcasters is that most of radio is built out of other
people's content. It's built out out of music. And
Adam Curry: music is that really? Most radio is music,
most,
James Cridland: most, most, most radio is music. Is music these
days, and so therefore that that is, that that is hard for them.
What I see in different in different markets and different
podcasting markets is you can really see how, how advanced a
podcasting market is by how much. And this is going to sound
very negative, but it really isn't meant to be how much
reheated radio is at the top of the charts in each country. Like
the term, if there's loads of reheated radio shows, then the
podcast market isn't really very, you know, very big. It's
not making its own stuff. And the fewer reheated radio shows,
the better. I think that radio companies have a problem trying
to understand how to monetize podcasting, because it's very
different to monetizing radio. And so I think that there's a
lot of people that don't fully understand that side. And and
frankly, you know, if you're a program director of a radio
station, you are incentivized on the, you know, what I would have
called the Arbitron figures. It hasn't been Arbitron for many
years, but you know, the radio ratings figures. And, you know,
and that's what you're you're incentivized on. And so seeing
lots of podcast downloads or seeing lots of online streams,
well, that's cute, but I'm, I'm, I'm incentivized on the amount
of people tuning in on am and FM. And I just don't think that
that's where the future of the future of radio, very much, is a
multi platform future. It's people consuming that content in
all different ways. And that might be online, it might be,
might still be through AMFM or other ways of broadcasting
radio, but it's, it's, it's a majority. It's loads of
different ways, and I think that's the big difference that
some of the industry still hasn't fully understood. So
Adam Curry: try this on for size. My feeling in podcasting
right now is we are saturated with, you know, people going
big, growing the show, doing you know, being appealing to a wide
audience all over the world, as many as possible. What I think,
what I see radio has left us is this, Why, certainly in the
United States, is this gaping hole of local content. I mean,
it's just not there anymore, and it's not profitable. I think
Facebook has taken a lot of local advertising away. Yelp,
you know, all these types of places where people search and
want to find something in a certain geographical location.
To me, it feels like there's such a and this is really. More
value for value, possibly as a business model, but maybe not. I
mean, if you can grow an audience, that is, you know, for
Austin, let's say, and it's just Austin. I remember when we had
the snowpocalypse, there was only one radio set, one morning
show, and it was kind of the hokey, you know, morning zoo
type dudes who who were still on the air. NPR was playing repeats
of fresh air, you know, no one.
James Cridland: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's ridiculous. Yeah, I
did something recently about Trump's assassination and how
US, US radio dealt with it. And the answer is, it didn't. It was
Erin because it was because it was 20 past six in the evening,
yeah, on a Saturday, and virtually everybody was in
automations and that, and that is not, is not a thing. But I
completely agree. In terms of local stuff, there's a friend of
mine that runs a radio station in a in a small town called
Shaftesbury in Dorset in the UK, and it's a radio station called
Alfred, and there's a website for it. This is alfred.com
because presumably alfred.com wasn't available and and what he
does, and I think that this is really interesting, is he makes
a half hour podcast every day. It's made with volunteers. So
there is a bunch of different volunteers sending him audio,
which he then puts together as a half hour show every single day.
It's full of local news. That's all it is interesting, just
local news. And then by and so we started doing this prior to
the pandemic, and then he won a community radio license. And
what the community radio license is, he's, he's there on, on, on
the FM, and it is that half hour podcast basically repeated quite
a lot of times. Low power. Is
Adam Curry: that low power? FM, yeah.
James Cridland: I mean, I mean it covers his. It covers the the
town of 10,000 people, yeah, and it and not much further. And so
that that is his. It's a community radio license in the
UK, and that, and that is, is his thing, and it is been
tremendously successful in terms of audience, like loads of
people. You know, he'll go into the pub and he'll sit quietly
and have a beer, and there will be other people in the pub
talking about what they heard on Alfred this morning. Nice. It's
the most amazing thing. And, you know, and everybody else doing
it for free, he pays himself a very small No, in fact, I don't,
I don't think he pays himself a salary either, but, but he's
managed to get a few free drinks grants from a few grants from
businesses and that sort of, well, yeah, exactly. And I do
think that that is I'm surprised that there aren't more of those.
In terms of podcasting.
Adam Curry: You know, if I was, if I was a big brand, if I was
like Gillette, I'll just pull something. I would be creating
the Gillette Podcast Network. And I would fund all, all of
these little podcasts all across the country, the world, whatever
you want, and pay them, you know, just pay them some money
now, enough to keep it going. You know, no one has to be a
millionaire. And I would make it the Gillette podcast network
Dave Jones: like the Gillette cattle Cavalcade of Sports,
that's right,
James Cridland: yeah? Because, because, you know, most of
these, I think the radio forgets that a typical American radio
listener listens to, I think it's 13 hours of radio a week
that is all, yeah, so filling 24 hours a day with new and
interesting programming is just a waste of time. It is. You
should be, you should be making some amazing programming and
then broadcasting it as much as you can, as many times as you
can. And that is completely the other way of how a radio a radio
company works, working.
Dave Jones: Didn't try that in the local market. I mean, I
don't, did it not did did it fail financially? Or did he
just, was it covid That hurt his business?
James Cridland: Well? I mean, that, you know, it's a
conversation for Sam, but my understanding is that there was
a, there was a lot more programming on that, on that
station. There was a lot more, you know, different, different
stuff on there and that. And that's very different to, you
know what Alfred, or there's another radio station in a
little place called Petersfield, called shine, and that does much
the same thing. Lots of volunteers making audio, sending
it in, and that being compiled. I think that's a really
interesting, very good, really good model. Yeah, I
Dave Jones: see, I see the difference there now, yeah.
Thanks
Adam Curry: to people who are boosting in throughout the show.
James, of course, is in the split, so we send a percentage
off to him. Thank you. Short of Well, thank you for coming.
Short Row of ducks, 22 to 22 from salty crayon day. If he
says, was it Dez Dickerson from Zebedee, negative, negative, not
Dez. All right, okay, not Dez. All right, we'll keep going. Try
Martin lindisco, 2112 he boosted for Chris wenski, he says, banjo
music. Rush boosts from Martin Linda Coke, very nice. Once told
Kyle also boosted for Chris wenski, always love a good
banjo. Chris and sir. TJ, the raffle should jam together. I'm
sure they will. I'm going to be on the the doorful verse
beginning of September. I'm looking forward to that. Sam
Santa Surprise, a whole bunch of boosts, 500 Dave understands we
need to extend the AP verbs like we did with podcast namespace.
Just because Apple doesn't didn't support chapters, we
didn't stop adding super chapters or cloud chapters or
chapters, uh, equally, because Mastodon doesn't support the
verb, doesn't mean we shouldn't extend the AP namespace. I guess
we'll have to do it first with true fans, if you know what I
mean. Hey, take the take the arrows. Yes, right. 1000 stats
from OYSTEIN Berga. Great song. Heard it on podcasting 2.0 that
is obviously boosting for Chris wensky, boistine Berger, by the
way, also has a couple of songs in the valley verse which are
well worth listening to. D's last 123, ITM from the
podcasting 2.0 community. Saying hi there to the artists. 1000
SATs from Sam James gets verbs to use as filters, okay, and
then he also sends a link another 1000 SATs promoting the
activity. Pub browser from Spurlock browser dot. Pub 777
from Sam we will allow you to follow your true fan social or
publish to another AP account. You just need to change in the
settings our did we are trying to reach the 99% of people who
don't have an AP account. Gotcha. Well, you need the
influencers and wow, my dog is going crazy. Is your dog going
is it your dog or my dog? No, it's
Dave Jones: not my dog. It's James's dog. Does
Adam Curry: your dog bite? Sorry. Throw back to the Pink
Panther. No one left. 333 from salty crayon. He says it should
be called fart circle. 3000 what was that? What we talked Okay,
whatever it is, they like the name, great name. 2222 from
salty if you don't have noser to begin with, the app is useless.
Only basic feature that is left is boost a show you already
follow. Can't edit your own profile. It's no longer
fountain. It's a nostr client. Nostr is showing links to
Spotify links which are not V for V music. There's work to be
done. That's that's clear. Once told Kyle, 7777 howdy Adam and
Dave from the Valley of the Dinos in Glen Rose, Texas.
Hello, Glen Rose. Looking forward to when I have to move
my studio into a 133 degree greenhouse during the Texas
summer to save the planet.
Dave Jones: Wondering, get out of there. You're kidding. Your
interviews are gonna be bad.
Adam Curry: I wonder, wondering, how much AI washing was it
Podcast Movement this year? Keep riding the podcasting 2.0
lightning. Well, that's a question for James. How much AI
did everyone talk about it? I know James. Report, yes. Report,
James,
James Cridland: there was an awful lot of AI talks about, but
I think actually the AI, I think AI is cooling off now. I think
people are realizing that it's not necessarily a good thing.
And certainly AI back in March, podcast, moving evolutions, so
so much more talking about about AI, and I think now we're kind
of understanding that it's not necessarily the be all, the be
all and end all. One of the things that a lot of people were
talking about was using AI to translate using cloned voices of
yourself, yeah, but translating into different languages, which
works for certain things and doesn't work for other things.
It would be awful for this show, but for a kind of, kind of a
news show, it would, it will. It will work quite nicely. I think,
well,
Adam Curry: I like humans. I can hear humans. I agree. I like, I
agree. I like. I like the imperfections. I like the
stuttering. I like everything. You know, it makes human. It's
humanity. So I don't, I don't think it'll ever really catch
on. We've had rendered voices for many, many years, and they
get a little bit better, although Richard grieser has
songs in the value verse, they're actually kind of banging
hits. But then I still hear that kind of auto tune, type voice,
and it always bugs me. Always bugs Yeah,
Dave Jones: on that note, James. James, you I don't know what you
write. You write PHP. What IDE do you use?
James Cridland: Visual Studio?
Dave Jones: You need to try out PHP storm. It the most recent
version of PHP storm will blow your mind. I don't know what
it's doing, because it doesn't seem like it's doing large
language model, because I see no signs anywhere on my machine of
a large language model being being used. I mean, there's no
there's no heavy processing. There was no long install time.
I don't know what voodoo or magic this thing is using, but
it is blowing my mind. I mean, I will type things and it will
just auto complete stuff. And I'm like, How did you know? I
just don't understand how it's so smart. You know, seriously,
give it a try. It
Adam Curry: was interesting. It's interesting. You bring that
up. I listened to Dave Weiner's podcast. You know, for nostalgic
reasons, I've always enjoyed listening to his morning coffee
notes. And he said something very similar. He said that his
and he's been developing for 30 years, that his development has
gone so as exceeded with all of these, well, he uses chat GPT.
It's like he's in love with chat GPT. Should get a room with chat
GPT. But he, he said the same thing. It's like the the answers
that it comes up with, you can describe a problem, and you say,
Okay, I need jQuery for this. I don't know about jQuery. It'll
just spit out code that you know, that is so good that he
hardly has to do anything with it. I mean, I think that that
that may ultimately be the killer app.
Dave Jones: The good thing about about what JetBrains has done is
that I don't have to do anything. I do nothing different
than what I've already done, and it just somehow analyzes the
stuff, my existing code, and it begins to write like what I do.
So, you know, I will go, I will make, start to make a function
that looks it's sort of, you know, there's a lot of
boilerplate stuff where you're just writing the same things
over and over in various with various permutations that are
small, and it's just kind of tedious, and I'll write
something, and then I'll go to write a couple of more methods
in a class, and it will just automatically fill in a bunch of
this boilerplate. And it's impressive. It is flat
Adam Curry: out, does this run local, on your local machine, or
is it from the cloud? No,
Dave Jones: it's, it's a local IDE, and this dedicated to PhD,
Adam Curry: and that's really it. You know that that's, that's
where the investment is all wrong, because I truly believe
in local llms or whatever you whatever AI is doing. I mean, I
have, on my start nine, I've got some some models that are open
source models, and I use it for certain things. You know,
looking up, actually looking up scripture, is really good
because it has it as in all the versions of the Bible, but, you
know, that kind of stuff. It's good, but it's local. You know,
I don't need to pay $20 a month again.
James Cridland: Ai Pro is $100 a year plus, plus you're also
spending another $100 a year on the on the IDE. Well, that's
Dave Jones: probably worth thing is, I didn't, I didn't pay for
it. When it asked me, When it asked me, when I installed, when
I installed PHP storm, it asked me, Do you want to use the AI
module? And I said, No. So this is something else well. And I
already pay for I pay for JetBrains annually, because I
just love I love it so much, and so I'm already paying for it,
and then the new version just dropped in some sort of, like,
you know, magic potion. Yeah, yeah. Give it a
Adam Curry: shot. Let's see. Then we have the 7777 from Sam.
True fans support the funding tag. People just don't know how
to find true fans, because we are only a progressive web app.
They look for apps in the flash two App Store. Maybe Apple's new
PWA ish app will help people find more PWA mad. I added that
D's last and I understand Sam and and as Steve Jobs told me
himself, it was never the idea his he wanted the iPod touch
with Wi Fi. He never wanted a he was he, in fact, I remember when
I had my meeting, he was yelling and mad like they effed up Wi
Fi. And so you had the right idea. These last with 1000 SATs.
ITM happy casual Friday. Go ahead and break out that
Hawaiian shirt if you'd like chat after 3333 tune in live to
hear the latest news about podcasting. 2.0 from noster
colon and pub 13, lots of end pubs there exactly that
booberry, 17,776, big freedom boost there, and has a link,
which I'm sure will show up in some in some apps, or maybe a
Nasser. Check out one of the new visual boost alerts for the
upcoming satellite skirmish album, rust. There's three more
of these bad boys. I hopefully be on a Sunday so I can promote
it on no agenda. Rove ducks from Martin lindiskirch, 22 Mind to
Adam, please give the backstory regarding James cridlins Bet
Apple podcasts and Android phones. Well, we did that, I
think, and I believe, I believe, I've hit the delimiter. Oh,
wait, there's some a new one came in. We had a new dirty
Jersey whore no 7777 peachy Hoddle was Zb was Zebedee was at
the vinyl lounge. Was that who Dave talk with? PG? Huddle, is
it peachy huddle? Hi, we did it.
Dave Jones: But what's peachy huddles email address? Is it
okay? Well, that's where the emails go. That's
Adam Curry: the guest. Peachy huddle. Shout out to peachy
huddle community. Come together. Let's find her. Let's make a
love connection with Dave, Ashley Jones and peach Lee
huddle.
Dave Jones: Peachy huddle is everybody's getting my email.
That's my bounce, but it's getting what
Adam Curry: you got on your list. I'm sorry. Can I?
James Cridland: Can I just ask two? Two of those said ITM, what
does ITM mean for the
Adam Curry: means in the morning. That is a no agenda
moniker, which has been going on, yes and, and if you really
want to know where that comes from, hold on a second. That is
from a very here's the origins clip. Oh, that's a little too
long. Think that's good. What if I here we know what it means.
Here we go. Look at me. I'm driving.
Unknown: I'm driving a real car. I don't believe it. Well, I'd
say we need to put on some tunes. Hey, welcome back to
weenie and the butt on 97.1 we in the butt just like the grown
ups listen to and that was baby by Justin Bieber featuring
Ludacris, which means it's time to give away some Justin Bieber
tickets. Oh, that's right, but our fifth caller, will we know
tickets? Okay,
Adam Curry: so in the longer version, they keep saying, in
the morning, in the morning, in the morning. So that was the
origin of in the morning. Yes, we in the butt in the morning.
Or if
Dave Jones: you're here, it's a itbr in the board,
Adam Curry: itbr, that's right, in the boardroom. That's right,
Dave Jones: we do have some, see, we've got some PayPals
here. Let me grab the PayPals. Buzz sprout, $1,000
Adam Curry: Whoa, Impala. Thank you boys at Buzzsprout. Not only
do you sponsor the pod news weekly review, but power that's
right, podcasts, podcasting 2.0 powered today by Buzzsprout.
Thank you boys. That's really appreciated. That's the big
deal.
Dave Jones: I thought I was, I was conniving in the background.
Uh, since before, since an hour before the show started, since
Tom is in town. Tom Rossi is in town. He's in Birmingham today.
Oh, I almost got him to show up to my house to be on the show
with James, but he's got,
Adam Curry: he's afraid of dogs. He's afraid of dogs, yes.
Dave Jones: And she's like, how big is your dog? Exactly. No,
but he, he got sidetracked into, into having lunch with his
family. So he had to, you know, he had to bail, please,
Adam Curry: family first, and all that nonsense. Okay, yep,
Dave Jones: let's see. He still may show up, though. We got to
see Tom, oh, here we go. Thomas, Thomas Rademacher. I hope I'm
saying his name, Rademacher. Rademachers, Thomas Rademacher.
They gave us $200 and there was no note, but he did say, I love
you. Everything you and Adam are doing. The board meeting is
always entertaining. Thank
Adam Curry: you. Thank you, brother.
Dave Jones: Since it's Rademacher, is that Dutch? Yes.
Thank you. You would it does come in as strong as usual.
Yeah, you would expect it. And we got, thank you, Thomas, we
got Daniel Hollingsworth, $50 Thank you. One office is nice,
he says, For a resume that gets results, I've created a podcast
app called digilor. Thanks for the inspiration and your work on
podcast index
Adam Curry: that is a crossover. What?
Dave Jones: What do you mean? Well,
Adam Curry: so something interesting started happening
about two years ago, on no agenda. As you know, we solicit
value for value, and if it's $200 or above, you become an
Associate Executive Producer, you get the credit. In fact, if
you go to imdb.com you can see over 1000 people have opened up
IMDb accounts as producers of the no agenda show. And if it's
$300 or above, then it's you're an executive producer. And in
that case, we read your note. And so Linda lupatkin showed up,
and she has an executive resume service. And for two years,
every single show, twice a week, she sends $200 and her tagline
is for a resume that get gets results go to Image makers. Inc,
that's image makers. Inc, with a k.com and talk to Linda Lou. And
it's people are sending in jingles for her now, and it's
become the whole they're donating on her behalf is.
Become this whole thing. And apparently it's, it's worth it
to her, so, yeah, and so now it's been crossed over here.
This
Dave Jones: is the best way to do advertising. Is because
Daniel sent in, uh, $50 he got advertising, and nobody had to
do any meetings.
Adam Curry: No meetings. That's, that's the secret. No meetings.
There's none of this. Well, I didn't like your read, you know,
wasn't quite exciting enough. Can
Dave Jones: we jump on a zoom call? Because make sure you
highlight this aspect of the product. Did
Adam Curry: you get the product? We want to make sure you try out
our product. Yes.
Dave Jones: We got some booster grams. We've got Andrew Grumman.
It says grooving on a Friday afternoon.
Adam Curry: 22
Dave Jones: Yep. 2222 get 11 111, from chimp. He says, I
heard it on podcasting 2.0 with the pod sage and sometimes Adam.
So Brian of London, 11, 948, he says, imagine the pitch from
Netflix and Amazon. We can show your ad to our subscribers, only
the poor ones, though not the big spenders who paid not to see
the ads. For me,
Unknown: excellent point,
Adam Curry: very good point, very good point, only the poor
ones. Nice.
Dave Jones: See coming in with hard truth. Ron, who we got
here. Gene bean, 2222 he says, check this out. Apple podcast is
now available for Android and everything else. Oh, he's
digging the nicest he
Adam Curry: is right now, poking the bear. Man, poking the
Dave Jones: bear. Yes. Bill Prague, from fountain through
fountain. He's 2000 sets, he says. But Prague, it always the
hive. Guy, people who using hive have the same problem explaining
this as more people get de platformed and definanced, more
will understand. PS, not Brian. He boosts like a champ. I am
cheap, yes. So that confusion is cleared up. Is not Brian in
disguise?
Adam Curry: Good to know.
Dave Jones: Good to know. Do we got any please get the back,
okay, yeah, we got that one. So this is the delimiter. Blogger,
25,000 sets through fountain. He says, howdy, Dave and Adam. Are
you tired of the same old, same old in your daily cartoon fix?
Do your funny pages not tickle your funny bone anymore? Fear
not dear listener, for we've got the pan galactic gargle blaster
of cartoon entertainment. Just visit www. Dot. CSB, dot. Lol,
exclamation point, yo. CSB, oh.
Adam Curry: He promoted himself this time he did. Oh, that's
treat
Dave Jones: yourself. That's cool. Yeah, we got some, uh, got
some monthly forget. Charles current, $5 thank you. Charles,
guess Satan's lawyer from down under $5 Jorge Hernandez $5
Michael Goggin, $5 Cohen gloss Buck $5 Christopher reamer $10
James Sullivan $10 and Jordan dunville $10 thank you all for
that group.
Adam Curry: Thank you all so much. This is a value for value
project. It goes beyond this podcast, although Dave and I are
always happy to just catch up with each other, the only time
we talk really during the week is on Fridays during the board
meeting. Podcast index dot social is where you can if you
want to join, shoot me an email. Adam@curry.com
dave@podcastindex.org and of course, you can go to
podcastindex.org down at the bottom, you see a big red donate
button. You hit that takes you the PayPal page. You can support
us with your Fiat fund coupons. We do like it, though, very
much. When you send us booster grams through any of the modern
podcast apps at podcast apps.com and all of the money goes into
the project keeps it running, hopefully for a long, long, long
time, certainly with supporters like you, you, you, you and you
and you and I see you over there too. You. Thank you.
Dave Jones: I'm sure James appreciates the the boosts in
his chattel, or wherever you are, the Chateau Chantelle.
James Cridland: I will take a photograph, and I'll find out
what they call it. Yes,
Dave Jones: please do
Adam Curry: James. Thank you so much for being with us today. At
the end of what I'm sure was a tiring trip, and you still have
a good what is it? 14 hours to fly? You have a direct flight
or,
James Cridland: Oh, I've got more than that. I've got, I've
got five hours to get to LAX, and then another 14 hours. So,
yeah, so, but also thank you to you too, as well. You know you
do a fantastic job. Not, not enough people say that you both
do a fantastic job, especially Dave, with all of the stuff that
I get to see, some of the emails that you have to deal with. So,
so you both do a fan. Oh, is
Adam Curry: he? Is he on the general email as well? The the I
can't add my podcast or refresh it?
James Cridland: No, no. But I always get the I always get CC
into some of these, they
Dave Jones: go through James. See, they gripe at James first.
Yeah,
Adam Curry: we spend quite a bit of time during our day answering
emails and refreshing feeds and but, you know, it's a lot. It's
actually fun. What I like the most is when people say, Wow,
thanks. They're really they're really grateful. Like, oh, you
fixed it. Thank you so much. Yes, I have
James Cridland: an actual thought. There was an actual
human being. The End, yes. Surprise,
Adam Curry: surprise, yeah, James, as we like to do over at
the no agenda show, I want to give you travel karma. So here
you go.
Unknown: You've got Thank you karma.
Adam Curry: It's been it's been known to help, it's been known
to help. It's been known to help, hope. So thank you,
boardroom for being here in spirit and in verb as you've
been chatting along with us. Very much. Appreciate it. Thank
you everybody. Brother, Dave, have yourself a great weekend.
You too, guys, both of you and well, we'll see you all next
week. James, safe travels, thank you all right, everybody that's
podcasting 2.0 it's a wrap. We'll be back next Friday with
another edition of the podcast in 2.0 podcast. See you then.
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast
index.org for more information. Go podcasting.
Adam Curry: I can debug stuff. I.