Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for September 13. 2024, episode 193,
helpful little wizards. Oh, it's Friday, but not just any Friday.
It's Friday the 13th. What could possibly go wrong? Well,
nothing, because you are here in the boardroom, the only
boardroom in all of podcasting, as far as I know, we're so
decentralized. And of course, we are the boardroom that doesn't
care who you vote for. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the
Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who chased his
core to the ends of his Id say hello to my friend on the other
end, the One Only Mr. Dave Jones.
Dave Jones: My dog is looking at me like, I mean, he's, he never
does this, but he's staring at me through the glass door.
Adam Curry: Let him in like he wants to come in. He's,
Dave Jones: he's got a I'm gonna bark look on his face like I've
never seen. Oh, Louis is a count countdown team on this question
mark. Now, does
Adam Curry: he just bark willy nilly, or does he bark at stuff,
at people and trucks and cars and deer and stuff?
Dave Jones: The the triggers for he barks at stuff, but the
triggers to what makes him bark are completely inscrutable. Oh,
we have no idea what it is, but what he will, he'll definitely.
So here's a crazy thing. He will start barking from the amazing
that he's asleep, like dead asleep in the middle of the
house. Oh
Adam Curry: yes, he'll
Dave Jones: start barking go to the door, and there will be a
guy walking a dog down the sidewalk, and it's like, how did
Adam Curry: you know? Yeah, Phoebe does that too, and
they're kind of the same breed, although we, we had her in the
in the paws and claws pet resort while we were in Mexico.
Dave Jones: And claws, this is like a mani pedi place. Oh,
yeah. And
Adam Curry: I always get her the executive suite because I feel
so guilty about boarding her. Because, you know this, we can't
really find anyone here who can. I mean, she's, she's under 100
pounds, but she's a big dog, and, you know, so happy.
Dave Jones: Do they garnish? Do they garnish the dog food with,
like, parsley?
Adam Curry: No, no, they don't. Otherwise, it's pretty regular.
And they say, I'm all excited to go get her, you know, hey,
Phoebe. She's like, wagging her tail a little bit. Okay,
whatever. And she was mad for a whole 48 hours, you'd tell she
was so mad, like, you put me in that place. Yeah, you got the fu
Oh yeah, for a while, that aloof look they can give you, like,
yeah, okay, yeah. Like, I'm
Dave Jones: over you. Ready?
Adam Curry: She's back to normal. Though I hate it. I hate
boarding the dog. I do not like doing that. Not my favorite
thing. How's your week been, brother, pretty good. Is it busy
time again for you? Is September, September 15? Another
busy time? September
Dave Jones: 15? October 15? Are they extension filing? You know,
extension deadlines for for filing. So, yeah, it's like a
little mini, mini tax season, but we're, we're getting through
it that. I mean, last night, I did myself no favors. Uh oh, by
I've been fighting this I've been fighting this thing. I've
been fighting this problem with what I thought was cores. So
cores, for the uninitiated, is cross origin resource sharing.
So for a web browser, by default, is only allowed to to
load, to load resources mean meaning images and JavaScript
and things like that. It's only allowed to load, pull those
things into the page from its own from its own domain. Now,
images are an exception. Images are have always been an
exception to this, to this rule.
Adam Curry: How did images get the exception.
Dave Jones: I, you know, I don't know there's, there's probably,
there's probably some course board, of course, like from Tim
Berners Lee, probably like as he was writing the first thing, he
was probably like, you know what? We ought to just give
images an exception. And that was the way it was. You know how
it goes.
Adam Curry: Does it have to be verified images, though, does it
have to be a JPEG or gif or etc?
Dave Jones: I really don't know how that's determined. I'm
assuming it's my MIME type.
Adam Curry: But you could spoof No, you could spoof it. Yeah,
Dave Jones: you could spoof it. But the browser, but the inter
the the interpreters in the browser, they know the DOM
parsers are probably, yeah, they're gonna reject that Yeah,
but so that the carve out for images has, has always been
there, and yeah, you're you're right. Harf had, it's mostly
JavaScript, but it is more than that, because other tags can
contain JavaScript sometimes. You can load stuff into the
browser and it becomes JavaScript later, which is
always fun, you know, like that's always been, that's
always been an issue. That's how a lot of cross site scripting
attacks work. But if so, cores is basically everything that's
not an image. Cores is, or when I say image, I mean, I think
it's, I think it's actually all of media. I think it's images,
video and audio. I think,
Adam Curry: oh yeah, like mp three would also be exam, yeah,
Dave Jones: right, yeah. So I believe, I believe that's the
case. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. But the so for core,
for cores, you can, you tip. You have to, it's a server side
change you have to make. You have to say, I'm allowing my
stuff to be loaded from this other domain. So my domain is,
you know, davejones.com, and yours is Adam curry.com and you
can't load script and things from, from Dave jones.com on
your web pages, and allow you to,
Adam Curry: oh, you have to allow me, yes. Oh, okay, yeah,
Dave Jones: right. And so there's a bunch of headers that
have to be exchanged, like pre flight headers and that kind of
thing. And there's, there's specific headers for that? Well,
I've been trying to load them this side project that mean
you're working. I've been trying to load this. I was trying to
load some images that were in object storage, and they just
would not they would not load. And I'm comparing the buckets
the object storage buckets, they're both on Linode. So I
have one example that works, have another example that does
not work, and I'm like, dumping out policies.
Adam Curry: Is this the forward back button?
Dave Jones: No, no, no. This is for, like, loading a piece of,
like, just an image. So like, loading an image and you have,
so, like, if I look we we have some stuff that we host for
podcast index that's like, the bucket is feeds, dot podcast
index.org, that's where we put some sort of, like, sandbox
stuff and that kind of thing. And all of those images were
fine. Just stick an image tag in the page. It loads fine. This
other bucket doesn't work, and it's giving me a 403, by 403403,
forbidden. Uh huh. That doesn't even sound like cores I'm like,
so, I mean, I was up for like, that was up to about almost one
o'clock in the morning, no,
Adam Curry: and you get up early too. So that's that was late
trying
Dave Jones: True, true of trying to figure this out. And it
finally, it just, it finally hit me that in setting up the the C
name to pass through Cloudflare to go to this bucket because you
want your buckets to be accessible from like, you know,
feeds. Dot podcast index, I
Adam Curry: want everybody. I want everybody to be able to
touch my buckets.
Dave Jones: Your buckets are so big. Yeah, it's a shame to hide
them. Yes, you but you don't want it to be what it normally
would be, which would be like, feeds, dot podcast, index.org,
dot s3 dot Leno, dot, you know, bucket one, dash southeast.com,
so just,
Adam Curry: does this story end with? It was DNS?
Dave Jones: No, no, no. It ends with, it is with, I stupidly set
up a Cloudflare setting that I did that I wasn't like. So
CloudFlare, when you set up a new site to to pass through
CloudFlare, it wants you to do it has these helpful little
wizards that will turn on a bunch of features
Adam Curry: for you. It's all always suspicious. Helpful
little wizards. Helpful little wizards. That's the show title,
right there.
Dave Jones: Never trust a helpful little wizard. But if
you So, there's a couple of these. And wizard also a great
song by Black Sabbath, yeah. If you, if you just go through each
one of those wizards, it will turn on, like a bunch of basic
stuff that most people want to turn on, and most of it is for
sure, like it's what you want, but this, but one of them was
block hot linking, image hot linking and, and I was like, and
it finally just out of the blue, it hit me. Oh, you know what? I
turned that box on, and I bet you, that's what it was. I
turned I went and flipped the switch off. Worked fine. I was,
like, I was 10 miles deep into AWS. Oh no, trying to find
bucket policy, ACLs and nightmares. Oh no. I could have
just, I mean, I could have gone to bed at like, 1030
Adam Curry: Me, were you on? Was it to overstack Now, what's it
called?
Dave Jones: Oh, Stack Overflow. Stack
Unknown: Overflow.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I was everywhere, dude. I was all over
Google trying to figure out, What in the world is this thing.
But yeah, that was just myself, shooting myself in the foot.
Adam Curry: Well, I'm glad you figured it out. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, we're good. Yeah, we're good now. So yes, we have a
project. We're working on people like side project. What are they
doing? Yeah, we're working on something.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Speaking of, speaking of side projects, and
you got anything you want to jump right into? No, no, I
don't. There's, there's a bunch much happening this week. But
one thing that I'm pretty pumped about is, let me refresh my
page. Where did this go? Okay, there it is. But one thing I'm
pretty pumped about is Alex Gates has been building, by my
request, he has been building a, what is he building? He's been
building a tool, a two. What
Adam Curry: is he building in there? It's, it's a,
Dave Jones: it's a pod, ping, utility, okay, so what this
thing does? Well, let me, let me step back. Pod ping is under
you. Is an underutilized resource. There are hundreds of
1000s of feeds being sent through pod ping every second it
seems. Yes, yeah. So if you want to find out, if you want to find
out what's going on in the world of pub, of podcasting? Yeah, you
just, you just look at that. Tap into pod ping, and you're going
to get the fire hose of information. This from tons of
different hosting companies, the big, the biggest ones, bus
sprout, Spreaker, blueberry man, I need to even look at the
Captivate. I need to look at that list again, because, you
know, the top 10 is well represented in pod ping.
Adam Curry: Oh yeah, it's yes. I wish we had many more. But the
top 10, the big ones, are there cash. I mean, is lips in there.
They're not pods. That would be so good if they, if they jumped
in, that'd be so easy, even I could code that for him.
Dave Jones: You can always please do. Please send him some
code, yes. So if you, if you tap into you, you can imagine how
pod paint is a what you know, obviously pod ping sends an
update through the through the blockchain every time a feed
gets updated. This is such useful information, but we don't
even pull Buzzsprout or Spreaker. No, of course never
touch. Don't have to never, yeah, we never send a request
for a feed until the end comes through. We just there's no
need. So we wait for them to tell us when the show is
updated, then we check them. So you can imagine building a new
app. This is going to be an immediate resource that you want
to tap into, because that means you don't have to poll them. You
don't have to you can also get great information, historical
information from the blockchain, like, how often does this show
update? What time windows do? Does the show typically update
in you know that what you know what time of what time of day,
how, how many times a week or month? Yeah,
Adam Curry: it's you've got stats. You've got data. By the
way, I just received a boost rss.com, loves pod. Ping, just
letting you know.
Dave Jones: Thank you. Every time I start listing people, I
always listen. Leave somebody out. I should stop listing um.
So what the only drawback to pod ping? And I'm sorry, Brian, but
the only drawback to hi to pod ping is hive is is something
that people just don't understand,
Adam Curry: or they just hear blockchain, they go, Oh no,
Dave Jones: right? And we've lot. We've largely for for the
use case of pod ping, it's what hive is, is irrelevant to what,
yeah, because
Adam Curry: you don't need to know it. You just don't need to
know what, what's doing. Yeah,
Dave Jones: you just tap the fire hose and you're good and
you're good, or you send and so we and we, and we, we abstracted
that with the with the pod ping dot cloud interface. So you just
send your update to pod ping dot cloud, and it takes care. Of all
the hive stuff and on the on the back end, and you don't, you
never have to even understand Hive at all. But that's on the
sending side. We needed a salute. We need a solution
that's just as easy on the receiving side. So
Adam Curry: yes, if app devs can do something with it, and
Dave Jones: there is, there are tools that Brian and then Alex
built called, like, the hive watcher,
Adam Curry: yes, or my, my favorite tiles, dot pod,
ping.org,
Dave Jones: yeah, that, yeah, that's now, that's like, that
would be more like an app.
Adam Curry: It, oh, no, of course it is. It's totally an
app. Yeah.
Dave Jones: So the tool, the tool that I'm talking about,
let's, let's say that you're building a a podcast app, or a
podcast platform of some sort, and you want to watch pod, think
pod ping for updates in a programmatic way that you can
pipe into your system. The Hive watcher Python tool would get
you there. There's also a version of it in JavaScript.
They are, they work, but they're complicated in the sense that
when they fail you, if you don't have expertise in Hive or Python
or or node, you really are kind of lost. So what I'm trying to
do and and actually reading from hive can become complicated,
because you're what you're doing is you're watching a bunch of
API servers on the hive side, and those things can go up and
down. It's a distributed, it's a distributed blockchain. So let's
just, let's say you have 75 API servers. What if one of them
dropped? Just, you know, yeah, if
Adam Curry: that's the one you're watching, then you can
have a problem, yeah.
Dave Jones: So you need to be, it's sort of like, I mean, bad
example, but it's kind of like nostr in that way, if you're, if
you're currently interacting with one nostr relay and that
thing drops you, I mean, you have to be able to intelligently
go somewhere else and figure, you know, you gotta be able to
switch gears. So the same, same type of deal here. So anyway,
there's all that complexity. So what I asked Alex for was, I'm
like, can you build just a super simple hive watcher tool that
will watch the blockchain and then write every update to a to
a file in the file system. Oh,
Adam Curry: yeah, which is the way we actually like stuff like
a JSON exactly,
Dave Jones: because it's JSON in the block. So you just take that
JSON out file. Yeah, got it. So he's been working on that for
for a few months in in rust. He's building in a rust. So
we've got memories, memory safety. We got the memory
stability, and it is already the pod, ping, dot, cloud front end
is written in rust. So we're, we're just kind of making this
all match up well. So he, he got it he he gave me access to the
repo day before yesterday. I got it installed and got it compiled
yesterday, and fired it up this morning, and it works like a
charm. Oh, awesome. So it's, it's just, it's a it's a day.
It's a daemon that just runs 24/7, every time there's a new
hive block, it looks and sees if there's any pod ping information
in it. If there is, it extracts it and sticks it into a file.
And it's just doing that all the time.
Adam Curry: So are you by firing this up, are you actually
connecting to the hive chain, or you just watching the hive
chain? Well, I guess it's the same thing. You're not an active
participant in the chain. You're just a lurker.
Dave Jones: Yeah? I'm trying to figure out maybe an analogy
there. So it's sort of like, you know how? You know how Spurlock
built that blue sky fire hose watcher thing, like every post,
yeah, yeah, that goes through it. He, you know, waterfalls
down the page. That's this thing. It's really not, it's not
participating. It's not posting anything. It's just really, it's
because the the hot, the hive network has full nodes which
participate in creating the
Adam Curry: blockchain right, which has a whole bunch of stuff
in each block you don't need, yeah, and so then
Dave Jones: you and, but you also have API servers where if
you just want to see what's there, you can just tap into
those. And so he's monitoring multiple API servers and
juggling all that stuff.
Adam Curry: And does it write us? An individual file per
block.
Dave Jones: It writes per it writes it as transactions. So it
creates a folder structure that is year, month, day, hour,
minute, second, and within that second folder, it has
potentially multiple files, each with block number, transaction
number, and a couple of other bits of data inside that file
will be the JSON. Wow, cool. Yeah. So then, you know,
obviously, once you have this thing, we can do all and it's
running right now on a just a $5 a month, Linode with, once we
have this data, we can, we can start to my next step will be
create the scripting, or whatever we're, you know, we're
going to do to then push this data to different places. First
on my list will be to put it in object storage, right in a way,
so that developers can tap
Adam Curry: into it easy, yep, yep, with an API or just flat
file access. Listen to me.
Dave Jones: You're a pro. You sell a pro the I think. And I'm
open to suggestions here, but I think the way that I'm going to
do it is the way that we're doing the tracking, object
storage stuff. So there'll be a thing that may be like tracking
or or watch dot pod, ping, dot cloud. And then that will be
just a bucket. And there will be one place, there will be a
starting point there. There'll always be, there'll always be a
file in that bucket called current that has the current
block number or the current file name, and you can just, you can
just walk back the walk back right chain through the
structure into Yeah, until you hit a date or a block number
that you've
Adam Curry: that you've seen. I want an OPML version of it.
Dave, you
Dave Jones: are you? Do you? Do you like, do you like 12 gig
OPML, because that's what, that's what it'll
Adam Curry: be. Yeah. That's cool, you know, yeah. So
Dave Jones: I've also got another idea.
Adam Curry: Well, let me just stick on this for a second,
because, you know, this project that we're working on is, I
don't know how to describe it, but it has given just looking at
the work you're doing. And by the way, Dave Jones doing
interface work is mind blowing.
Dave Jones: Mind blowing is one way to describe it. No,
Adam Curry: I mean, you know, you're, you know. And I say this
with love, your interfaces are, you know, like kind of a mauve
background and text, you know, and some boxes and buttons,
well, they're functional. They're 100% functional.
Dave Jones: She's, she's got such a great personality, no?
Adam Curry: Well, yeah, in a way. But whatever is this, that
framework you're using, Laravel, yeah, whatever you're doing,
it's, it's outputting stuff that is beautiful. Well,
Dave Jones: now, I mean, the stuff you the stuff you're
seeing is now that that's all me from scratch that, oh, okay,
that's some the the stuff on the dashboard side, that's, that's
some Laravel. But the the output that you get on the other end of
it, that's
Adam Curry: all well, okay, well, all right. So blown away,
double blown away. But it's, it's given me so much. It really
makes my brain creative. Like, look at all the things we can
do. It's the same when I look at tiles, dot pod, ping.org, I'm
like, all the things that can be done, because I look at it and
say, Oh, look, think about the data behind it. I mean, this is,
I guess, what I was getting to in the past episode or so about
building different kinds of apps that do different things. It's
this, we're, you know, we're still a little caught in in our
inbox, yeah, motif of frame of mind, right? So, like, Okay,
here's your podcast, here's your episodes. And just the thinking
about different types of experiences with this data, it's
my mind just keeps spinning and spinning. Like, Oh man, you can
do so much stuff, which I hope, I hope, happens.
Dave Jones: Air peeps, he said, You guys are minimalist. Yes,
thank
Adam Curry: you. Yeah, minimalist interface.
Dave Jones: There you go. Minimalist as far as effort
goes, it's usually the way it goes. Is usually what that
means. Yeah, no, I feel, I feel what you're saying. Because
that's See, that's the way I feel with with pod, the pod,
ping, um, Dan. Damon, is that, like one here? Like one thing I
want to do is make this available over activity. Pub,
yeah, baby, you can subscribe to put you can subscribe to feed at
activity. Pub, dot pod, ping, dot cloud interact in an
activity pub client. And then whenever a pod ping comes
through, you get it, you get a note,
Adam Curry: Oh, wow. You'll need a separate, separate timeline
for that. That'll be, that'll be, I mean, we're running about
311 pod ping every three seconds.
Dave Jones: No, like, this is not for, this is not for human
consumption. For,
Adam Curry: no, not at all. Yeah, definitely not, yeah. This
Dave Jones: is totally for, like, architecture, so, but,
but, I mean, we can, you know, we can do it, and that I can see
how this, I can see how this moves the needle, or could
potentially move the needle to get what I want to what I want
to do is just get, get podcasting away from polling.
You know what I mean for sure,
Adam Curry: polling is for pussies. It's all right, yes, we
definitely need that. Polling is for pussies.
Dave Jones: Yeah? Work on that. Yes. No agenda shop. Yeah,
please. But you know what I mean, like, there's, there's, so
there's just no reason for it anymore. There really isn't. You
know that? The reason, well, that's, let me, let me take that
back. That's, that's too bold of a statement. The reason, the
only reason to poll is if you have to, that's a better way to
say it. If there's a, if there's something, if something happened
where there was some sort of, you know, censorship, or
something that was needing to be avoided. You know, sure, poll,
but, but I don't for 99% of the time. I really think we can get
to a point in podcasting where we don't have to poll anymore. I
mean, pod ping is our popping has already got us most of the
way there, and it's not even this is not, this is not even
for just hosting companies. You know, if you're at rss.com you,
yeah, of course, you're going to send a pod ping every time you
update your feed. But it also, if you're using power press or
seriously, simple on your WordPress site, they also send
pod things. Yeah, and they're on their own domains like this, so
I don't re I really think we can go to a post polling world. Ooh,
Adam Curry: post polling world. I like it. PPW,
Dave Jones: yeah. And this, I think this tool let is the
building block for how, for how we start making, for how we
start making pod ping like, ubiquitous and everywhere?
Adam Curry: Yeah, you know what I have learned throughout the
years is, if you have a fire hose or more data that updates
regularly, it's like, like, honey for the fly developer, you
know, I was like, and they just, they, when they see the data,
they're like, oh, what can I do with this? There got to be
something I could. And that's, that's how Bing it.io was built,
you know, I just always published the knowledge in the
show notes, in XML, and boom. You know, there were, at 1.4 or
five different search engines, and then once we added the
transcripts, oh, man, it just became crazy. Which is, by the
way, is a bit of the stuff David's doing with hypercatcher.
Have you been following his his developments? I have not, no. So
please tell me it was. Yeah, he's back on the stick with
hypercatcher. And so the two things, I don't have
hypercatcher, I think it's iOS only, if I may be wrong, but
there's also a web version. So first of all, on the app itself,
he's generating transcripts on the fly in the app. Not quite
sure how that's happening, but he's doing on device, right on
device, yeah. But also you can do searches and lookups on the
chapter data, so you can research stuff. So whatever, the
whatever is in the chapter, you can, you know, then have the app
go and look up stuff about that particular topic. You
Dave Jones: mean, like, like Google searches and stuff he
Adam Curry: he actually let me see, hold on a second, because
he posted an example, which was Rogan. Let me see,
Dave Jones: is it a real time fact check? Well,
Adam Curry: in a way, because he said, here we go. Yeah. Hyper
catcher, can now take the chapter
Dave Jones: data. The chapter drip stuff said, Hey, Jamie, is
what it's
Adam Curry: exactly what it's called. Yes, can take the
chapter. Thanks for ruining the punchline. Dreb I was getting to
it. Could take the chapter data from podcasts you've listened to
and any research term, Hey, Jamie couldn't quote and compile
it into a markdown file for sharing and note taking apps
like obsidian.
Dave Jones: Nice, yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. So
Adam Curry: I love that. I love that there's different different
ideas and different reasons, and this also gives people a reason
to have multiple apps, you know? And I think we probably already
use multiple apps for different reasons, which is nice when it
all just kind of works, and it would be nice to sync that all
over activity. Pub, no, I'm saying, just saying, wouldn't it
be cool to have my all of my apps syncing with the
subscriptions.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and that's, well, you know, that kind of
leads into that leads into episodes out FM, yes, now
supporting, now supporting all feeds instead of just iTunes
IDs. So like that makes that, makes that part easier. Oh,
Adam Curry: because, first of all, episodes.fm so awesome,
although this was a lesson in UI design. So I brought it up
yesterday to tweet out the live no agenda Show episode and and
I, and I go to episodes.fm, like, whoa, okay, different
homepage. Hold on a second. Like, what? Okay, where's the
search box? Fine. And then it keeps opening up
podcast.apple.com, and I know that you can set it, so whatever
your preferred player is, it always opens that. But I want to
go to the page that just has all the different apps that you can
then select. So when I when I tweet that out, and when I boost
it out, or to it out, when I slash that X, people can choose
their own and the button that selects open up your preferred
player or open up the list had become inverted in the new UI.
Dave Jones: Oh, it used to, it used to be used, right? Yeah,
you
Adam Curry: toggle it to the right, and now it was to the
left. Like, oh. And it took me a, you know, in the, in the, in
the heat of the battle, getting ready to go live, like, Oh, what
is going on here? I don't understand. I immediately got,
immediately someone on mass, on guy. He said, Oh, okay, hey,
Boomer. Like, thanks. Thanks. Didn't even respond to that.
Dave Jones: I need to. I'm gonna actually try this out here. I'm
gonna pick a show that I know does not have an iTunes ID, and
that's gonna be, let's just do murder in the fourth dimension.
Yeah, here we go. We're in the fourth dimension. Oh, there's no
wait. Oh, I'm merged. So Steven crater did a pull request to
bring to enable episodes.fm for pages that, for pages that
didn't, didn't have iTunes IDs on the podcast index. It's not,
you know, curry
Adam Curry: and the keeper also doesn't come up yet. So maybe he
hasn't implemented it all yet, because I'm looking for curry,
and the keeper, which I know doesn't have an iTunes ID and it
does not show up. Hmm,
Dave Jones: maybe I screwed up the the push to production, hmm,
uh, weren't, weren't, weren't. I'll have to figure that out,
because that's supposed to be there on the pay on the podcast
index side. Oh,
Adam Curry: you have to pay. Oh, you have to paste in the feed
URL,
Dave Jones: yeah, but that should be taken care of in the
yeah in the search, in the link, yeah. You know, it's also
bothering me that there's no that there's no left padding on
the podcast index avatar at the beginning, at the top of the
website. There's no one that's super important. But when the
when you shrink the site down, uh, width wise,
Adam Curry: oh yeah,
Dave Jones: the icon goes all the way up hard to the hard edge
on the left. Oh, gotcha.
Adam Curry: Gotcha. Let me see if I podcast feed. Well, that's
good to know. Okay, so put the feed in.
Dave Jones: Steve said it works for him. Maybe. What if I what
am I doing wrong? Okay,
Adam Curry: putting the feed, oh, here.
Dave Jones: No, wait, wait, I had to hard refresh my browser
to get it was a cash thing because I hard. I did a get it,
a control shift R, and now I'm seeing the episodes.fm icon,
Adam Curry: oh, on the podcast index. Oh, okay, no, I have that
I have. Oh, okay, that's interesting. Let me try that. I.
Isn't it fun? Everybody to listen to us do a hard R. A hard
R. That was the title of episode, 100 of mofacs with Adam
curry.
Dave Jones: The hard R was, yeah. Do you got to do the hard
R on the on the page and see if it shows up? Okay,
Adam Curry: hard R, let's see Ben, yeah, it shows up. And I
hit episodes.fm yep, there is, Oh, beautiful. Oh, well, that
makes it easy. Thanks, Steven. Yeah, this is great, brother.
That's beautiful. That is beautiful. Okay,
Dave Jones: see now, because now I can take, um, now I can take
the all those links off of the activity, pub postings, and just
put one link, right, all the pills, or whatever you call it.
Adam Curry: So fantastic. I'm telling you, it's one of the
best developments in podcasting. 2.0 is how episodes.fm
integrates with everything. It's just fantastic. Awesome. It
really is.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so that's, I think, like, I think we're, I
think we're seeing a bunch of different things sort of
coalescing right now where I think what we're in is a phase
where things are becoming easier. Oh, totally, you know,
Adam Curry: I mean, I had this thought, I'm not quite sure
exactly how to explain it, but I had a thought, what if so like,
for instance, episodes.fm is a good, good example. So let's say
I send out the link, it's the episodes.fm and you click on
podcast guru, because that's the app you're using. Now it knows
that this is looking for curry and the keeper. What if, then,
when you hit the app, it starts off with an entirely different
UI that is based upon all kinds of you know, information that
that we send along in our feed, including pod role and all this
stuff, you know. So I could, in fact, send people to a platform
within the app. Does that make any sense? So you could come
into my world and I'm not
Dave Jones: following, not following you, that the
Adam Curry: the URL, whatever the trigger is to open up the
app that it, it doesn't just show you this, you know, because
you're still standard episode, okay, here's an episode here,
you know, here's the here's the main podcast, and then all your
other stuff. I mean, what if it took over the whole UI? What if
it changed everything based upon the data in the feed, right down
to the buttons for all I care, you know, just like, what if?
What if I could, and through pod role and other things and
geolocation, you know, it could show, you know, the podcast that
we recommend that's in the interface. It's showing stuff
that is from the same area. You know what? I mean, it's like, so
that I can tell people to use podcast guru, but it really when
they come in through the door that I'm offering, it's more
like a platform that I'm that I'm influencing, that I'm that I
can change based upon the data that I'm publishing. Does that
make sense? Must be must not be making sense.
Dave Jones: It okay. Let me see if I can sort of mirror this
back to you, my understanding of this like you're kind of saying
that. You're saying that when you get a request for, let's
say, an episode of a podcast, what you what you see, is almost
like a custom web site that's built out of the parts that are
exposed by that episode of that podcast. How about this?
Adam Curry: And it doesn't have to be a website. This is why I'm
interested. Well, obviously that's much easier, perhaps, but
let's say I'm a publisher, and when I publish something, people
have to have, it's if you just open the app, then you're just
going to get whatever the app, however the app functions. But
when you come to it from some other door, a link, which I
think a lot of people think about it that I don't. I mean, I
really don't know, but some mechanism that when I push this
as a publisher, now you're seeing my publisher world an app
takeover, if you will. I don't know needs work.
Dave Jones: I feel like I understand what you're saying.
Adam Curry: I was better when I was smoking weed, was much
easier. No, it wasn't.
Dave Jones: I feel like I understand what you're saying.
It's almost, it's like,
Adam Curry: like, take the thing we're working on. I. Right? So
it has backgrounds. The whole the whole thing changes based
upon where you're coming from,
Dave Jones: right, right, yeah, you like, you get a unique, it's
like, you get a unique experience based on how you get
there.
Adam Curry: How about this? Okay, so, and this all stems
from Rachel Maddow, which is the is so frightening for me to
think of, but
Dave Jones: you are stuck on this. I am this, really, this,
really got, uh, got your hackle up well,
Adam Curry: and, you know, I Yeah, Gordon just said a custom
skin. Yeah, that. That's a good way of looking at it. So Rachel
Maddow her, her main complaint was, you know, I don't
understand. What is the where's the recommendations? How come?
You know, she's what she wants is a platform. She wants a
platform like YouTube for people to be interacting with podcasts.
But what she's really saying is, I want to, I want a platform. I
want a platform because, of course, you we'd all love to
have our own YouTube, and it'd be our own. So when, when people
come in through the Rachel Maddow, God, this hurts me. So
much of you saying this through, through her entry point. Hey,
sugar, it's okay through her entry point. You know that
should be a world, and it's still, it's still, it's still
podcast guru, but it's a world that she has influence over, and
she can become the platform. So you can, and I think that is
part of, it's the publisher feed. I'm thinking, somehow I
might it's part of the publisher function. So you're making the
recommendations the app is doing stuff based upon what I am
publishing, all the things I'm publishing. So all the guests
I've had, you know, look at all the guests I've had, you know,
and it would be less of a navigation inbox tool, and now
it becomes a platform for that particular publisher.
Dave Jones: Okay, first, first of all, I think that you have
always been
Adam Curry: insane.
Dave Jones: You have always been obsessed with, and I think this
is a good obsession with getting away from the inbox view of
podcasting and RSS in general.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I don't know if obsession is fair, but I'll
take it okay, because
Dave Jones: that, and I'm with you on that, I feel like, you
know, we did this in the freedom controller. We had this idea,
you know, we took a news river approach, not an inbox reader
approach. You didn't have unread items that you had to look at
right and again then go through and mark as Mark as read. What
you just had is you just had a stream of things coming a first
in, first out view. And then there's certain things that you
could mark as sticky, where they would stick to the top. And you
can say, okay, now I now most of the time I don't really want to
have to stop and mark this thing as red, but, but there's some
things I don't want to miss. So every now and then one of those
feeds would stick to the top, and you would read that, and
then you would dismiss it, but, and so that was sort of like a
happy compromise between, I don't want to miss these other
things, but, but the rest of 99% of my sort of stream of content,
I really don't care about having to stop and mark it as red,
which feels like work and like that was one way of getting out
of The inbox model of podcasts or RSS feed readers, which to me
is feels, always felt very liberating, because I hate, we
all hate having unread, like unread, unread stuff. Yeah, it
sucks. So you don't want, you don't want that in your life, as
if you don't have to have it. So, I mean, this feels like a
sort of another. This feels like another way out of that inbox
model where you can say where I share an item to you as I say,
Hey, Adam, check out this, this episode of this podcast, and
then you the app opens, or the site opens, or whatever it is
that's going to show you that episode. And what you get is you
get, of course, the episode, but then you also get the last five
people that listen to this episode went on to listen to
this other episode. Do you want to listen to that one next? Do
you want to and and also, most of the people that subscribe to
this show also subscribe to this to this other show. And then
here's the pod
Adam Curry: role, right? But I, but I want that to all be in the
Yes, yes, yes to that. But I that needs to be in in madow
world.
Dave Jones: What do you mean Maddow world? So
Adam Curry: it has to be other Maddow people who came in. My
Rachel Maddow, yes, we are, I know just, it just makes it I
don't know if I'm hurting myself with that in the argument or
not, okay, but I want, I want people to come to apps, because
and the apps are just beautiful. They're such wonderful. There's
so many core functional pieces that have been, you know, been
worked on for decades at this point. And you know, people are
winding up going to YouTube, or winding up, you know, going to
just the web player. And by the way, this is much easier,
possibly in a web environment. And maybe, and maybe this is
something that really only works for PWA is maybe just have more
more real estate you can mess around with, but I can, I just
feels to me like, if you can have the publishers, people who
are publishing RSS feeds, publishing podcasts and with
with the 23 different tags we have now, I should be able to,
you know, the the app should look at this and based upon
other people who come in through the same entry point. Should it
should just be a world that is, you know, the no agenda world
maybe didn't just make that easier. And and I can, and the
things that are coming to the surface are indeed based upon
what other people who come into the world on that app are doing.
So part of its activity streams, maybe, and I think that's almost
unavoidable. And by the way, true fans has already been doing
this for 10 years. So just so you know, I'm sure, I'm sure
that. I'm sure that's a fact.
Dave Jones: But we need to talk about true fans, by the way,
Adam Curry: well, let's talk about it. Because I think this,
I think this folds into it, that that so when I, if I send people
to true fans for no agenda, that should be no agenda world, not
just a true fans app that's playing no agenda. And yeah, and
it's not just a skin, although not unimportant for branding,
but since everyone you can identify that people are coming
in to no agenda world. So now, what are those people doing?
What other so, just like you said, a bit like the freedom
controller, I don't want to necessarily have to follow
someone, but why isn't there a recommendation engine that shows
me what other people have been listening to doing. Oh, this
host, and, you know, people looked at this guest, etc, just
this whole world based upon me sending people in through a
certain portal. And it's, it's easier to consider that. And
again, with it comes to the apps for me, because of episodes.fm
it's like I'm sending people from episodes.fm so you know,
someone is coming to your app. They're opening up something in
the app, but it's an action they've already taken. So it's
not just a Rando. I opened the app. I went to no agenda, no.
They're coming in with with purpose. And that's where it
should be, a platform, and if somehow that can be created,
then you're gonna so that'll be my win. When Rachel Maddow goes,
oh, you know these apps that all of a sudden is a platform. It's
not just an app, it's a platform. And she has the
ability and the the illusion that she actually controls it,
which she kind of does for for her world. But someone coming in
from no agenda gets a whole different world.
Dave Jones: And, like, I like this, yes, go ahead, keep going
and,
Adam Curry: you know, and then I look at the hyper catcher stuff.
So I'm doing a Hey, Jamie, look up on Chapter data. What is it
bringing in from me? Is it bringing stuff in from another
world? And can I switch worlds? You know, I can just see such a
rich just, I'm trying to break my head out of the inbox model.
You're right. It's an obsession. I'll stop.
Dave Jones: Yeah, well, well, I like, I like this because you,
if you, if you take all of the stuff that's there in the feed,
like, all like, so this is where all that stuff could live, like,
social, like, all the social like activity, pub comments,
nostra comments, pod rolls, person tags, like, you could
bring all of this stuff into almost like you. Yeah, you like,
you said, like, a world of this show that exists when people
enter the door from a certain route. Because, like, like, most
of the time I just want my feed in my app, but, but if I'm
getting introduced into the this world of this show from another
spot like it actually be pretty helpful to have the whole
context, yes,
Adam Curry: the whole context of that, of that of the world that
that, that publisher. Controls or influences.
Dave Jones: And then, in order to make this happen, we need, we
need, we need a little bit more. One thing we need is we need the
banner, the ability to do banner. We need better art
specifications outside of the iTunes namespace. We need, we
need a large like we need to finalize the way to put the
banners in there. I know Russell at pod two. He's already, he's
already doing this. He just took the bull by the horns and
started doing it and but we also maybe need some some color,
color information in there. I know Nathan gathright brought
this up and in an old issue on the namespace about some color
picking and that kind of thing. Now there was, immediately,
there's pushback about, well, you know, I don't want to change
the colors of my app based on this other thing, but I think
there's a but if you look at the Apple podcast app, that's one
thing it does very well, is it sort of adopts, it adopts the
colors, the style of the podcast. You know, they really
encourage. They want to make you feel like you're in that
podcast, and you're not just simply in Apple podcast app. So
I think that there,
Adam Curry: yes, that's the start of it, absolutely.
Dave Jones: The thing that Apple podcast is missing is all that
rich data to go on top of it.
Adam Curry: Well, that's they'll never, they'll never get there
where they will, you know, when we're dead and gone, because
they'll just keep plugging away at their own pace. That's just
the nature of a slow company. I guess. I'm trying to get away
from, oh, great. Here's a pod roll. Click here to see
recommendations by this podcast. I'm trying to get away from
that, because that's not, you know, when you go to Youtube, it
doesn't say, Click here to look at videos like this. It shows
stuff. It's showing you stuff everywhere. It's it has it had,
and they're doing it behind the scenes. And you can't really
control that as a publisher, but in our world, you can, because
we are publishing the data. There's so much data we're we're
pushing. And, yes, it is Bruce, it's, uh, it's, you know,
instead of making it one, you know, just a list that leads to
another list. You know, how do you turn it into a world? In a
world
Dave Jones: there's, yeah, it's, it's taking, this is, it's not
just simply showing the data is taking sort of, like the next
step and and putting it in, like, arranging it in a way that
that makes you feel like you're in that, that thing, yeah, in
Adam Curry: that world just, I'm just Calling what it is Rachel
Manos world, because if she, if she sees that, she has that
capability, she'll promote it, you know, yeah,
Dave Jones: it's Rachel's world. Yeah, I get it. Rachel's world,
yeah, I like, I like the idea, I like this concept, yeah? And I
think we can, I think we can bring some of that into what
we're doing now, you know,
Adam Curry: well, in a way, what we're doing with our project is
some of that we're presenting a world, yeah, yeah. We're
presenting a world that, you know,
Dave Jones: it's not app centric, right? That's been
about this other project is that the app is not the center of the
universe. It's, it's creating, it's, it's pushing the center of
the universe. It ends up being somewhere else. And you have,
you have to live by the rules of that other thing, right? And
it's actually kind of a mind bender, and it's a little bit
hard to get used to. I think this makes, well, let's talk
about true fans, okay? Because, because Sam, Sam said that he,
he posted a couple of things on Mastodon this week. He said that
he's, they're gonna put downloads, like local storage,
downloads into true fans for all, for offline playback.
Adam Curry: That's, that's tricky, which
Dave Jones: is cool, but he, he posted and said that he's, he's
kicking he's, he's giving up, and he's gonna put it, he's
gonna build a native app. Oh,
Adam Curry: really, yes, I missed that post. Really.
Dave Jones: Let me see. Let me see if I can find it.
Adam Curry: Sam, I'll bet you that, I bet you that investors
kind of demand that investors can't wrap their head around a
web app as as valuable think so, yeah, I know. So
Dave Jones: let's see,
Adam Curry: see things that's, that's, uh, it's a big. I mean,
that's a big that is quite big, that he, that he's going that
way, and that's on a. Perspective. Actually,
Dave Jones: I can't find the original post here, but he bet
he basically said, you know, I give up, in the sense that, you
know what he said, specifically said, for whatever reason,
people just don't like web apps. It's not, you know, it's like,
it's just not getting it's just people are not, you know,
Adam Curry: let me just, let me just jump right back in. Okay, I
think if you approach it from the app perspective, so, I want
a podcast app. Yes, I can see where people think, oh, I want
an app. I don't want this thing. But if you're being pushed into
a world from from the outside in and not you know, it's just wow,
it's a major change.
Dave Jones: Let me. Let me read to you what he posted. Okay? He
said, we give in people don't un don't understand or like
progressive web apps. We're going to build native iOS
Android versions of true fans. By the end of October, we will
have native apps with support for CarPlay, Android Auto, Apple
Watch and Alexa integration. Huh?
Adam Curry: Well, in that case,
no goodbye, progressive web apps,
Dave Jones: the PWA, they had a good run. No, I think that I've
got, I've got some thoughts on this, but
Adam Curry: let me put it this way. All right, back to Rachel.
If Rachel said, Go to podcast.rachelmano.com, and
you're sent to a a Rachel world that is based on true fans. So
it has all the true fans functionality, but it's just,
but everything is is built around Rachel's world with stuff
that she can, quote, unquote, control by what she puts in her
feed, which would, you know, require a 2.0 feed. And from
there, people also see, oh, wait, I can listen to all my
podcasts here, you know. And even if you go to it on mobile
phone, it'll be like, Oh, well, this is nice. I can see people,
you know. So instead of saying, use my app, say, point your,
point, your people to this, you know, to here, and then that
will just become the app that they use for that show. And then
maybe they'll start using it for other shows, maybe other, you
know, it's like, it's, it's a reverse way of getting people to
use your app. So instead of please use my app, we show all
podcasts in all the best possible way. Because, I mean
curry and the keepers not on, I not on on Apple. People don't
care. They listen to it on the web or whatever they do. But if
I sent and these are quote, unquote unsophisticated podcast
listeners, a lot of them don't even know that there's a thing
called the I know because I see him in church. They don't even
know about a podcast app. No, they don't. They know. They know
the podcast. But I said, but we have podpage.com and everyone
uses that. They love it. So this is great. We could do all kinds
of stuff. Now, what if you know that? What if you can send
instead of I have to set up my okay, just take the app out of
the equation, because you can do it in apps or web. Doesn't
matter. But what if you say, like pod page was, I'm a big
fan. I'm a paying member. It cost me a lot of money, this pod
page outfit, by the way, I saw that bill come through, because
I got a lot of domains mapped to it.
Dave Jones: Is that? Is that what curry and the keeper.com
is? Yes, yeah, yeah.
Adam Curry: That's pod page, you know. So what if, instead of you
have to set up your pod page? What if the app is pod page, and
you send people there, and based upon the feed it shows you that
page? Does that make sense? What I'm saying? So instead
Dave Jones: of yes, yeah, yeah, you're, you're, you're almost
white labeling a full, a full podcast app, yes,
Adam Curry: but just by sending people there from from a link,
yeah, right. So instead of you have to go to curry
inthekeeper.com but I spent hours setting it up. That thing
is a full blown app which can also do other things for, you
know, for other podcasts, which would be, you know, and then the
whole idea is, people say, tell their other podcast friends, the
podcasters, hey, if, if you point at this thing, then it
changes. It becomes your world,
Dave Jones: right? Well, that's really what, you know. Okay,
well, I
Adam Curry: just ruined pod. Page's entire business model.
But you know what I'm saying? It's like, No,
Dave Jones: I think you I think they could, I think they could
easily do become, you know, them and true fans and these I think
they could become this thing you're talking about without too
like, they could just become this, like, because pod page is
essentially a podcast app, yes, just with different but you just
don't scroll. You just don't scroll through a timeline.
Adam Curry: So instead of acting like a web page for a podcast,
act like a podcast app. That's what I'm saying, like and you
can send anybody there. Now it'll be pretty standard if you
don't have 2.0 tags, but if you got 2.0 tags, oh, man. Imagine
all that. Imagine what a cool app that would be. And I'm a
little enamored by, you know, some of the gesture stuff that
I've seen you working on. It's like, oh, I can just swipe back
and forth. It's like, it's rock solid. This actually feels more
solid than some apps I use, like, Oh, this is good. Boom,
boom, boom. Very responsive.
Dave Jones: Well, this is something that I've been
thinking about because of that as well. Is when I saw what,
when I saw what Sam had written, I get it and I think he's I
think he's right. People don't like a lot of people don't like
PWAs, and I think that, I think there's a lot of reasons for
that. I think it's because there's sort of an inherent
rubber banding that kind of happens with web with websites
Nate, native apps. Native apps feel solid because they don't
have left to right wonkiness. Yes, yep. The the problem the
the inherent problem with mobile browsers and putting something
on a mobile web page is that there's many different ways that
you can make that thing scroll in ways that you don't want it
to. Yes, yeah, for sure, that happens. It breaks the illusion
of it being an app. And now you look, now you feel like you're,
you're no now you feel like you're no longer in an app. You
feel like you're reading a PDF on your phone, and you have to,
you have to scroll to find the button, and it just, it's sort
of whole it really throws you out of the whole illusion. I
think that's the biggest problem with PWAs and web page based
apps is that issue. You can get around a lot of it, but you
can't fully get out of it. And then right at it the worst
moment when you're trying to go to tap on something. You tap a
little too low and it brings up the address bar. Yeah? You know
now, now chrome electron did a great job of solving this by
just removing all web browsers Chrome. Yeah, right, yeah.
There's no more chrome at all. It's just purely a empty window,
and you put in it what you want, right? That helps a lot, but
there's no equivalent of that on the PDA, PWA. Try to be that,
but they don't. It just don't, right? So
Adam Curry: stop trying to be an app that people are supposed to
treat like an app, because they're not fooled. It's not an
app. I got it. I didn't go to the App Store. It's not an app,
whatever, whatever, the whatever you're trying to pull on me.
It's not an app. So instead of that, just pull them into a
world.
Dave Jones: Yeah, apps don't have sort of real native apps,
whether it's on the on the phone or on the desktop, a real,
actual native app, don't have any they don't have a notion of
a viewport, right? You know, you're there's no viewport that
you're peering into, and you can move all around in there. So
they that once you eliminate that sort of visual wonkiness,
if you take if it wasn't for that, I can tell you, based on
the last few weeks of development that I've been
doing, a web browser is a very not, it's pretty nice. Like it
the one, here's one great thing about a web browser is the media
continues to play even when the phone screens
Adam Curry: off. Yes, no kidding, you hit
Dave Jones: play on a on a piece of content, yeah, just work. And
that thing just, it just
Adam Curry: works unless it's YouTube and you're not a
subscriber, but that's a different issue. Exactly
Dave Jones: in that way, it's so much better than the native app
of YouTube, and so I think, like, I understand, I fully
understand why he's doing it, and it's probably the right
thing to do. Well,
Adam Curry: is it though? Is it though? Because he has all the
elements of what I'm talking about. He has it all. Sam, don't
give up yet. He has all the elements. But like all apps,
he's trying to be, use me. Use me for all your podcasts. I'm
just saying. Why? Right? Why not just let the publishers tell
people, hey, use this or click, click on, you know, this C name
that I have, or type this into your browser, Adam Curry's
world.com then it automatically shuttles you to this place. And
that's a world. It's not an app.
Dave Jones: It's See, he's, he's almost there already, really,
yes,
Adam Curry: he has, particularly with activity streams, he's got
all these things that he can start to correlate that people
are already doing interacting with the same content. Now
you're talking about something that is really different, and
make the whole so don't promote other pods. Don't promote your
forget about your trying to be a podcast that try to be a world
for that one show that someone just went to
Dave Jones: like. If I Okay, so if I go to true fans, I just
went to truefans.fm and I'm going to click on buzzcast. What
I come up with is this page that looks almost like pod page with
Buzz cat with the big buzzcast logo. It's got the hosts of the
show. They're, they're, it's there,
Adam Curry: I have to sign in again. I'm getting tired. I
don't understand why I always have to sign in. Is that,
Dave Jones: is that I'm on the brow, I'm on the desktop
browser,
Adam Curry: but I'm on the desktop browser too. That always
makes me sign in again. I don't understand. And of course, I use
the password manager, so it's not something I can easily
remember. It
Dave Jones: wanted me to, but I just clicked away from it, oh,
just so I could get in and see the page, and then see, now, as
you see all, I see all the I see all the stuff on the page. If
this, this feels like I'm on the buzzcast website, because
there's this nice art, and there's all these things there.
There's the pod role, there's activity. I mean, this could be
white labeled into just buzzworld. Yes, like you're
talking about,
Adam Curry: yeah, and I'm not sure how I can control it as as
as the buzzworld as the buzzword publisher, but it's right now
you're seeing become a fan. So I should already be a fan. You
know? It's like, I'm in, I'm already in, and they should be
showing me a whole bunch of things. And this still has the,
oh, now you're seeing all the old episodes, right? Turn this
into a world and and make it instead of true fans at the top.
Make it buzz fans and buzzworld. What? This just all that's,
that's this, that's the, the obvious stuff. But, you know, it
should already be showing me what other things Kevin is doing
and Jordan is doing, and it should be showing me people who
are listening and it. And instead of a a poll where people
use an app to pull stuff in and should be push buzzwords. Should
know they won't, because they have their In fact, they just
did their own new websites. I know I'm just, I'm becoming
repetitive,
Dave Jones: but everything's in the feed, you know, like, like,
I think, I think what you're saying just a few tweaks, I
think would make this become that thing. Yes, because all the
stuff is there. It's just arranged in sort of, like a,
like a, like a file, folder. Yes, okay, here's episodes,
yeah, pod roll, here's activity, here's comments. Instead, just
munge all that stuff onto the page in a big and, you know, and
maybe if make it all there.
Adam Curry: So if you're, if you're coming to and from from
an external source, and that external source can be
recognized, take it over. Take it over. Make it. Make it
buzzword, if you're just using it as an app, okay, fine. But
make it. Make it the but, man, I would be telling people use this
app or go to this, go to this URL, and it'll open it up. And
you got all your stuff in there, all of it. So in a way, it's, I
guess I am saying, be a, be a destination that that podcasters
push you, push people towards and and not worry about people
using your app for everything. Have the podcasters say, go
here, and then they're using your app. I know it's just a
different mindset. It's different mindset.
Dave Jones: You abstract away the idea of the app. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah, I guess that's what I'm doing. Todd. Todd
boosts in. Welcome to level two. Hold the line. Hey, should we
play a song just to clear the palette for a second here? Yeah,
sure. Okay, pick this up from the from the value verse says. I
was scrolling through the split kit this morning. Thank you very
much. Steven B, love that work you're doing. Brad johnner, and
this is free, and I watched
Unknown: you leaving silhouette of all the time that we shared,
and there's no reason for you to turn around and come back. You.
I guess I knew that you grew up to be the woman that you are. No
doubt that you're leaving. I never thought the day would come
so soon. But you gotta be free walk down the path of
uncertainty. You gotta be leading that junk a
gotta be leading that you're gonna make it. You gotta be free
to take the chances that you need to take. You gotta be
leading that you're gonna make you.
I thought I saw you smiling at me from a billboard sign. I
guess I'm looking just a little too hard. Singing to me from the
Broadway stage. And you were a queen man finally found her
star. I can't deny that you're a dreamer, I want to spread your
wings and fly away forever, but when you said goodbye, I knew
that you gotta be free to walk down the path of uncertainty.
You gotta believe it.
You're gonna make it shit you gotta be free take the chances
that you need to take. You gotta believe that you're gonna make
it a chance. Still remember when I looked into your baby blue
eyes. I thinking that you can be what you want to
be. Understand why you're so sad, but there's a world out
there for me, so I must be falling my way out, and you
gotta be free to walk down the path of uncertainty. You gotta
be leading that you're gonna Make it you gotta do
Adam Curry: I hope on, I guess that's fitting for today. You've
got to be free to walk the path of uncertainty. Brad joner on
podcasting, 2.0 if you like that song, go back a little bit.
Boost. Boost, go back in your time. You can even pause it.
Boost, let him know you heard it. On podcasting, 2.0 any song
that has banjo and cello in the same track is good with me.
Dave Jones: I'm a fan of those things being merged together
into one thing. It's good.
Adam Curry: All right. What else you got on your list? Just had
to cleanse the palette of everything.
Dave Jones: I like it. Oh, did
Adam Curry: you do the you talk to the Zebedee folks? Can you
talk about it yet?
Dave Jones: I can't. I can't say a ton because they they just
explicit me, explicitly asked me to hang loose about talking
about it.
Adam Curry: You're under NDA, you're under NDA, we're
Dave Jones: under friend. We're under friend. EA, not NDA,
you're under what
Adam Curry: do you call? What's they call it when, when you
can't release until a certain date? What's it called
Dave Jones: this embargo, embargo,
Adam Curry: embargo, thank you, embargo.
Dave Jones: I think I mean the skit, the basic thumbnail
sketch, is pretty, I mean, it's the same as what you laid out
last week. There's that's pretty much it. He's as far as, like,
pricing. And things like that, and how, how that whole thing is
gonna sort of fit together. Oh, they're writing it up for us,
right? Yeah, he already sent me sort of a so here's what I can
say, that what they're doing is like a one pager where it's
like, Here's how. And I've got that, I've got that page now.
I'm just
Adam Curry: embargo. You're under an embargo. You can't, you
can't talk about it yet.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so as, yes, I'm under an soft embargo. And
the so I'm working, I'm like, going through the page to check,
to check, like, kind of see how it works. And, you know, just
kind of get a, get a feel for what they've put together.
Adam Curry: Is there technical stuff in there? Implementation
stuff? Yeah, oh, cool, yeah.
Dave Jones: It's, like, it's, it's a really simple write up
of, like, if you're an ad developer and you want to
integrate, you do this, this, this and this, and it's nice,
Adam Curry: so simple how to do MD, readme.md,
Dave Jones: and so he said, he said, with the like, sometime
this week, they'll, he said, they just want to clear the last
stuff, to the last bits, to make sure that that it's all doable.
Because it sounded like, it sounds like what they it's
similar to what they were telling you about last week that
they they kind of had all the pieces in place. They just
needed to rearrange some things to sort of put together a
podcast centric solution, right? And they've kind of got that,
but they just need to make sure that, that it's what, that it
all fits with, like, you know, their legal stuff, and got it
because they're because they have the money licenses and
everything. So right, as soon as they find that out and give us
the thumbs up, then, you know, we can, like, put out this one
pager, and it's supposed, it's gonna, yeah, it's pretty simple.
No, nice,
Adam Curry: nice. Yeah, they're nice people, and they really
believe in value for value. That's what I like about them. I
Dave Jones: had a it was a very enjoyable call. Yeah, there
they,
Adam Curry: I guess Katie was on the call. They get it, yeah, for
sure.
Dave Jones: Yeah. It was, yeah. It wasn't all dudes, exactly.
Adam Curry: It wasn't all dudes. Oh, that's, that's the elements
of a good call. Breath of fresh air. Yes, yes, indeed, indeed.
Dave Jones: No, no, but no, it's gonna be, it's gonna be, it's
gonna be good. As soon as I get the thumbs up, we'll, you know,
I'll go do it on the show.
Adam Curry: Yeah, excellent. Um,
Dave Jones: the, AG, see, the aggregator went down, I guess.
So neither,
Adam Curry: yeah, that was, uh, that was, so, here's the
sequence of events. Um, so you had the Bitcoin and podcast
that, turns out there's a lot of podcasts with the words Bitcoin
and, and, and died, yeah, wasn't updating. And so, you know, I
saw the Bat Signal go out on, on the mastodon, like, Okay, let me
see what I can do. And I do a refresh, or I did a scan, didn't
scan. I'm like, Okay, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hit the
refresh. Are you sure? Yes, and, and still wasn't up to him like
this. And I'm like, you know, so I start looking in his feed, you
know, me, I'm seeing if there's anything weird in there. I can't
see anything. So I figured something had broken. And I
guess something had broken. Yep, had broke. Yeah, something had
broke. It
Dave Jones: for sure, broke in, not in a fun way, because, like,
I was, I was at the rock climbing gym when, when I saw
this come through, I was just, I
Adam Curry: was just, was hanging, you're hanging on a
rock looking at your phone. Seriously? Dave Jones,
Dave Jones: yeah, no, um, some, I'm between climbs, and I'm just
kind of scrolling the mastodon to keep track of things and and
I saw this, and so I went, of course, I go over to the API
site, hit the hit the reset on that feed, and just like he was
like, now there's no episodes, yeah, there's no scan. Oh, crap.
So, oh man. So, you know, when I got home, wait, did
Adam Curry: you know I'm disappointed you did an SSH from
your phone. I mean, that's why
Dave Jones: so many good SSH apps on the iPhone,
Adam Curry: Mini termics. I
Dave Jones: use termix. Can you imagine doing that on an iPhone
mini No?
Adam Curry: No, that would be awful.
Dave Jones: And just it teaches me that I should, how dare I be
at the gym without a laptop in my bag? You know? Seriously, you
know. But, but I got in there and some German podcast had put
a Unicode character in their URL. And what was crashing was
the insert on the My seat was the MySQL insert. So the way the
aggregator works is it, it runs. It collects all the, all of the.
Uh, feed updates into one big batch, sequel batch insert, and
then executes that to update, like, you know, potentially 2000
feeds at once. And so the insert, the insert crashed, and
it was one, it was this one character, and it
Adam Curry: would, it would bring down the whole aggregator,
when, when, when it, when it, when it
Dave Jones: crashed. No, it just crashed the process. And so then
it would start again. Oh, and try that one. It would try it
was stuck on that same feed. I think, I
Adam Curry: think we just need to cut Germany off.
Dave Jones: I already did. I blocked him. Oh, no, yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah. If equals, gr, D, E, yes, then block, yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah. But one, one bad at Germany didn't bring
enough for the whole classroom, so everybody gets punished,
yeah, but it, but it's, I've got a worker, I've got a workaround
in there now. And so we're, what character
Adam Curry: was it and what and how does that wind up in the
feed URL? Well, you know
Dave Jones: how it is? I mean, you have no idea like this, you
know how Unicode is? You look at and you're like, what is that?
Right? Right? Because there's 8 million Unicode characters, and
half of them are, like, not even visible, you know, like, they're
like, control characters. You know, this one means this
character. Like, this character means, like, go back three
spaces and you're like, what? Huh, like, it's just not even
like a real character. And so I couldn't even tell. So someone
Adam Curry: probably typed in a URL manually and hit the
backspace or something, and sounds like a manual input
issue?
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think, if I think, if I wonder what
Adam Curry: the generator was for it,
Dave Jones: the generator was pod love. I think I'm pretty
sure I saved the feed, but I haven't gotten back to it yet.
Pretty sure it was a pod love feed, interesting and which I
did not think pod love supported funky characters in their URL. I
mean, like, technically, I don't think there's any spec anywhere
that exists that says you can't do that in a URL, in a URL, but
you You're asking for trouble if you do it clearly,
Adam Curry: the pod sage, stop it. Yeah,
Dave Jones: it was a stupid oversight on my part. I should
have, I mean, it's been running for four years. I
Adam Curry: mean, never happened before,
Dave Jones: millions and millions of feeds, and so I just
it was, yeah, it was, sometimes you just don't know what you
don't know to quote until we know it. Rumsfeld, yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah. Well, thanks for fixing it. That's
appreciated. I'm my nightmare is, Dave Jones is no longer on
this planet.
Dave Jones: That's kind of my nightmare too. Well, there's
Adam Curry: that. But think of the podcasts.
Dave Jones: Well, somebody, please, think of the podcast.
Adam Curry: We need a we need a succession plan.
Dave Jones: I see key man insurance is that what? No, not
the insurance
Adam Curry: we need, like a, you know, a dead man's switch if you
don't hit it after X amount of time, like a, you know, like a
multi SIG wallet. You know, it has to release passwords, at
least to Alex gates or something,
Dave Jones: a dead man switch goes to Alex,
Adam Curry: somebody. Why not? You could send it to me, but All
right, here you go. What am I gonna do with it?
Dave Jones: No, the dead man switch goes to Alex, and he goes
to three people. Goes to Alex, Eric PP and Archie over at pod
friend. I mean, pod verse, okay, yeah, those, those guys will
handle it, okay. And Spurlock and goes to all four of those
guys, just saying, if Dave doesn't SSC in once a week, and
just, yeah, the Dave's dead credentials, or
Adam Curry: we just need a way to do wellness check so we can
see if you know he's alive. Okay,
Dave Jones: sorry. James needed a wellness check. His feed went
that was
Adam Curry: a wall. That was, do we ever figure out what
happened? His
Dave Jones: server was crashing, is what he said.
Adam Curry: That sucks. I've never had that where you wake up
one morning like, wait a minute, there's no there's no pod news.
What am I going to do? Wait, there's no pod. There's no pod
news anywhere. It's not, how does this what? Yeah,
Dave Jones: it's not just an episode missing. The whole
thing's gone. It's like, James doesn't even exist anymore. It
felt like, and I thought he just decided
Adam Curry: to quit, yeah, rage quit. Like, I'm getting out of
the business. I'm gonna go fishing.
Dave Jones: Spotify. Send him one too many. Press Release. He
says that, Danny's like, I screw it, yeah, let's see what else I
got. Actually, I kind of need to be conscious of time. I've got
kind of a soft out, okay, around 215 so we might want to go ahead
and, oh yeah,
Adam Curry: we can do that. Sure. Oh, short board meeting.
Boy, All right, everybody, yeah, less options for you this week.
No warrants. Yeah, this the, you know, nature, the nature, the
nature of the IRS Code, yes, I hear you. Yeah, no problem.
Well, let me read the boost that came in while we were yapping
away. Br, 1000 SATs pod stage podcasting, salty crayon, 404.
There's an unholy amount of bitcoin podcast saying the exact
same talking points, less parrots, more music. Podcasts,
salty crayon, he's very regular with this podcast as well, which
is great. But love the love the upbeat. Uh, 4567, from Dr Scott.
He says, free by Brad John, a nice tuner. John the podcasting.
2.0 podcast, good stuff. There's the 20,000 stats from Todd.
Thank you, Todd. He said, Welcome to level two. Hold the
line. Go podcasting. Podcasting. Another salty crayon. Short Row
of ducks. 222, f5, jiggle the handle. Always have this running
scissors handy. There's br again with the rss.com. Loves pod.
Ping. Dreb Scott, 12345, boosting. Oh, this was doing the
pre stream. Heard you on the pre stream for podcasting. 2.0 pod,
point zero podcast. Good stuff. Another 2345, from dreb, going
to the artist, which is great. Thank you very much. And Mike
Dell, who was listening 1701 Star Trek, boost. And he said,
Wow, I got on the pre show for a change. So yes, I start around
10 after 12 our time, and just play some songs, a little disc
jockeying, which is always fun, hitting the post, trying to hit
that post. After 45 years, I still can still do it. Can still
do it. What you got there to
Dave Jones: do that in your sleep? I got we got the pod
verse as a PayPal for 50 bucks.
Adam Curry: Thank you very much. That is highly appreciated. Yes,
waiting,
Dave Jones: highly anticipating pod verse next gen. That's
right,
Adam Curry: by the way, by the way, yep, you know, though, this
is a thought I just had, you know, Mitch was saying, hey,
it's going to be a while for us to get the app done. But, you
know, he was looking at, you know, serving up an API, like a
backup or an alternative source. Why, you know, consider the
ideas we were talking about earlier. Maybe that's something
you guys can do.
Dave Jones: Yeah, and, and I, and I encourage, you know, I
encourage anybody wants to run, you know, some sort of API. I
encourage you. I mean, if you could, I would say, like, if
somebody like Mitch or anybody else wants to run an API. I
mean, I don't want to tell anybody what to do, but it would
be kind of cool if, if it mimicked sort of our API format,
so that it could be sort of like a backup, sure, or, you know,
like, if we're, if we're kind of both, if we're all doing the
same sort of thing, I don't know that would be kind of cool,
because we, you know, we've always said we want, you know,
we want people to replicate the index for sure, as things for
sure, but, but then you Do, I guess you just don't want to
have two people, for people to have to learn new like, I have
two different APIs,
Adam Curry: right? Yeah, the same,
Dave Jones: yeah. That would be a that would be hard. Um,
anyway, it sounds like what I mean, they're spending a lot of
time on their database schema. It sounds like it's going to be
really cool. I can't wait to see it. We got some boosts. Oh, I
see we got McDermott six. I don't know McDermott, that's a
new one. And McDermott 64444, through true fans says listing
on a 1.0 app because I lose signal in the woods when I run.
But had to pull over to give you a standing zero for this spot on
for the spot on commentary about the media. No, no, a standing O,
not zero.
Adam Curry: Standing zero. Standing O, a standing zero.
Hey, I got a standing zero at that conference. Awesome.
Standing
Dave Jones: O for the spot on commentary about on the media
and that that's always, always a fun Hey, listen. Mike Dale,
1701, Star Trek boost through fountain. He says, yes, it's
Spotify. Okay. Be Dinty. BB, dint see 1701, oh, there's a
Star Trek boost.
Adam Curry: Do we? Do we know? Be dinsey. Do.
Dave Jones: I don't know. Be dense. I'm gonna defragmented.
Adam Curry: Welcome to the club. Be densey through
Dave Jones: true fans. Another true fans boost. Glad Do you
have the comment? Federation working? Sam, very nice. Cool,
cool, cool. See what else we got. Gene bean, 2222 also three.
True fans, Dave, I'm sure you have been through this before,
but can you tell me the requirements of the podcast
index database, not how it's implemented today, but what it
needs to accomplish, asking, because I'd like to run it by
some co workers who have some pretty crazy experience with
high performance databases requirements. I mean, you know,
Adam Curry: patience,
Dave Jones: patience is a requirement.
Adam Curry: I would say so.
Dave Jones: I mean, you know, that's a hard thing to guess. I
would need somebody like, probably, like Macintosh to kind
of tell me, or Archie to tell me what that would be. But, I mean,
I would have to boil it down to, I'll give you a better answer on
the next show. I would have to boil it down to, like,
transactions per second, a number of no not just for all
transactions. But I would have to say the biggest bottleneck is
inserts, right
Adam Curry: as we discuss even I know that now, whenever I'm out
with my buddies talking database stuff like, how about those
inserts? I know the table locks are nuts.
Dave Jones: Rachel maddows entry point
Adam Curry: number for Rachel maddows entry point, which by
itself, is just very odd term, not a show title. But no, no,
not a show title.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I can get you like, I would have to say, I'll
have to come up with a number of like, updates and inserts per
second, and I'll get that for you in the next show. We got
McDermott six again, 4444 listening on one. Oh, that's,
that's a double. He can give us a double boost. Oh,
Adam Curry: thank you. Kyron,
Dave Jones: through satchel. Richards, 1111, through
fountain. He says, wow, there's some really amazing music making
its way into V for V feels like the quality and, dare I say,
diversity.
Adam Curry: Oh no, oh no, oh no, not the D word. Heard
Dave Jones: it on podcasting 2.0 very nice. See you got gene
Everett, 5000 stats through fountain. Anyone else hate that?
Fountain went full nostr. Now I'm not following half my old
peeps, plus new version keeps glitching like it's two years
ago. Just me, ooh, I don't know. Well, I know Oscar did a big
update. Yeah, no, it's a lot of stuff, yeah.
Adam Curry: I mean this, it's always hard. I applaud what,
what Oscar is doing. You know, he took a real bold move. Said,
Okay, I'm going to serve this community and make it available
to others if they want to come in, it's and so, you know, I'm
sure he knew that he was going to alienate some people in some
ways, that just happened. So I applaud that kind of, that kind
of risk taking.
Dave Jones: Is it doing? Am I misunderstanding or is it
doesn't this eventually resolve itself when, when everybody's
like, switches to just get an it's not like, if you're in
Fountain, it's not like you have to be on nostr No fountain is
just, they've just switched their internal messaging format
to be that. But that does, that shouldn't affect you. No. It
Adam Curry: affects what you see in your home feed. Okay, so when
you open the app now, you're seeing a lot of nostr messages,
which is heavy Bitcoin.
Dave Jones: Okay, so you're seeing nostr messages come into
your fountain fee from outside of the fountain universe.
Adam Curry: I don't know where it's coming from. Well, let me
just see. Let me just check right now, because I subscribe
to all kinds of stuff in Fountain. And let me see what I
see when I go to the home screen. I'm just taking a moment
to load. Okay, so I see guys roundtable Bitcoin and, uh, uh,
well, homesteading, oh, maybe it's changed. None of your
business. The the soul
Dave Jones: chat said it shows anything with a fountain or wave
or wave like link from nostr.
Adam Curry: It's actually it's gotten less noisy, but you know
so what I did, and this is probably my fault, I use my
existing nostr credentials, so whatever I was following on,
nostr is now. Going to start showing up. So I yeah, what? I
don't know. I don't know what it looks like if you come in with
a, if with a fresh, uh, noster ID, so which is just, I just
realized that now it's like, Oh, I know all these people. Why do
I know these people? Oh, okay,
Dave Jones: I haven't done so here's where I'm at when I when
I saw the change, I stopped, and I haven't done anything yet. And
and so when I just fired it back up, I when I just, when I just
fired it up, and now what I get is a message at the top saying,
connecting, connect noster for cross app Activity. Activity on
fountain is now powered by noster. Create a nostr account
or connect an existing account to interact with other users,
right? And I get and I get two options. I get connect nostr
button, and I get another link that says, What is noster. So
if, if I hit Connect nostr, I get to another page that says,
connect an existing nostra profile or create a new profile.
And so here's what like, here's what I wanted to happen. What I
wanted to happen was that fountain would auto create a new
nostr profile for me that already had all of my previous
fountain account information in it.
Adam Curry: Yeah. So if you click on your profile, find your
followers, find people you followed previously on fountain
before connecting, Nasser to continue seeing their activity.
So I that's that may be new. I hadn't seen that either. So you
can do, find my followers, and then you can find, find my
followers, or find my follows.
Dave Jones: Find your fault, find people who that's like all
listening fountain before connecting. It's definitely
Adam Curry: a lot less noisy than it was, because I was
seeing all of the the the reposts and everything and so
that that seems to be less noisy now. So, like, it's actually
pretty good. Now, let's see it,
Dave Jones: if I would, if I would have, if, if they had, if
Oscar had auto created my profile and then said as a nostr
profile, and then said, Hey, if you want to connect your
existing nostra profile, you can do it this way. Yeah, right. I
think right now I'm kind of forced to make a choice that I'm
not sure afraid to make,
Adam Curry: yes, and I made it. And initially was difficult, but
I don't know, no, but now it's settling down. Yeah, it does
seem to be settling
Dave Jones: down. I feel, I feel like that'll like once as all of
the fountain user maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I feel
like as as all the fountain users do this process, then
eventually it kind of goes back, similar to the way it was
before, right? But with just some extra stuff in the feed.
Adam Curry: Also you can select people you're following or
global. I hadn't done global yet, so, yeah. Anyway, there's
definitely stuff working. Gene,
Dave Jones: never. 3333 through fountain. He says, I hate this.
Nostr comment format, like, I hate it.
Adam Curry: Okay, thanks for the positive feedback.
Dave Jones: Gene, not. Gene, not a fan of the new nostra stuff,
and found gene Everett again, 50,000 Sasser found and he says,
so now we can't boost comments, man, I wish I had never updated
to the legs to have version. I really had fun on fountain, and
it seems like it was finally working well after early years
being buggy. But now I can't boost comments. Nostra sucks. So
maybe
Adam Curry: I know, maybe you should have a friendly
conversation with a developer. And although we love, we love
the boost. It's, it's kind of harsh, you know, when you're
working on an app and people are, you know, bitching and
moaning on other shows about it, and just saying,
Dave Jones: yes. I mean, shoot, shoot. Oscar an email, maybe he
can explain what's going on,
Adam Curry: yeah, and try not to use the word hate or sucks. Try
to be positive. You know,
Dave Jones: we got the commentary blogger delimiter,
26,000 SATs through fountain. He says, howdy, Dave and Adam
howdy. Some podcasts about podcasting are made by Grifters
from mainstream media who are just pretentious pricks. Some
other are genuinely useful for all podcasters. Example, School
of podcasting podcast that you can
find@www.schoolofpodcasting.com a useful podcast by Dave
Jackson, cousin of Michael Jackson.
Adam Curry: Boost of the week.
Dave Jones: Please subscribe to it, to polish your pod, to
polish your podcasts. Oh, he I see what you did there to polish
your podcast. Bros, yo. CSB, PS No. Ai, no. AI was used to
compose this Bitcoin. Gram, not even yesterday, released high
IQ, chat, GPT, 010, okay.
Adam Curry: You know, comic strip bloggers never going to
die. The AI will just take over, and it'll just continue boosting
us. And just, you know, for. The rest in perpetuity. That's
Dave Jones: what he's been building for. That's his life.
That's like his magnum opus. Yes,
Adam Curry: he'll reproduce himself,
Dave Jones: so that when he dies nobody will know. Yeah, maybe
he's already dead. Who knows? He may have died during the
pandemic. We still know it.
Adam Curry: Careful now, because he's gonna get all huffy about
it. I am not dead. What are you talking about? That is not nice
to talk that way about me. See
Dave Jones: it now. CSB is current. See it. What
constitutes the the physical manifestation of CSB currently
is, is a tower PC with about 5g with like five NVIDIA GPUs. That
is basically what CSB is. No, this is corporeal self. Now
Adam Curry: I can already, I can already see him composing the
toot. No, I use, I use Azure,
Dave Jones: whatever, AMD, whatever, whatever. We got some.
See, we got some monthly. See, here we got basil. Phillip, $25
Thank you basil. Saying, maybe it's basil, it's probably,
probably Yeah, basil, yeah, basil. Phillip, $25 Hey, I'm
from Alabama. Lauren ball, $24.20 Thank you, Lauren. Thank
you. Lauren Mitch Downey, $10 Thank you Mitch. Christopher
harabarik, $10 Terry Keller, $5 silicone florist, $10 Chris
Cowan $5 Yaron Rosenstein, $1 Paul Saltzman, $22.22 Thank you.
Paul Derek J visker, the best name in podcasting, $21 and
Damon kasak, $15
Adam Curry: thank you all very much. That's great. Good group.
Value for value. The whole project here. Go to
podcastindex.org read all about it right there on the homepage.
And we get the bottom you see a red donate button that is for
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website, the Bitcoin Conference podcast that the artist did
about value for value. Have you seen that? It would just showed
up on on YouTube. It's really good. And is
Dave Jones: that the one Chad ethling today? Yes, yes.
Adam Curry: They start off with, tell me what value for value is,
and they nail it. All of them. They get it completely.
Especially DJ Valerie B love I think is that her name, she's
pretty cool. Yeah, very cool. And thank you. Thank you
everybody. We really appreciate it. This is a public service. Is
a public boardroom. Everybody is welcome. We do every single
Friday, except around tax time. We make things a little shorter.
It's about two hours all right, brother, get back to work. Get
back to get back to the mill. You got to grind some more
numbers.
Dave Jones: I just realized something I wanted that that I
had forgotten to put on my notes to talk about. And Dang it,
we'll have to talk about next week. You
Unknown: want to give a
Dave Jones: teaser? No, no, it's, it's no, it's too much to
get into. Well, yeah, it's too much to get Okay, yeah,
Adam Curry: something really complicated is coming up next
week. All right, brother, have yourself a great weekend. Dave,
all right, Timmy and the same. To the boardroom. Thanks for
being here on podcasting 2.0
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0
Adam Curry: visit podcast index.org for more information.
Go podcasting. Polling is for pussies. You.