Unknown: Podcasting 2.0
Adam Curry: for October 4, 2024 episode 196, redneck Air Force.
Hey everybody, it's time to get your weekend started. You know
what we do? We have a meeting, but not just any old meeting. It
is the official board meeting of podcasting 2.0 where we
discussed everything that's happened in the past week, in
the past 20 years, and for the future 20 years, we are, in
fact, the only boardroom that never discusses our KPIs and
EBITDA. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill
Country in Alabama, the expert who can answer the question,
what is a podcast? Say hello to my friend on the other end, the
one and only Mr. Dave Jones,
Dave Jones: the reason this podcast does not have video is
because of what is, because of what just happened the you're
doing the intro, and I'm just shoving popcorn in my mouth as
fast as I can, because I eat lunch. Yeah,
Adam Curry: you're actually on your lunch hour. You You break,
and you don't even take a break. You're breaking from the day
job, and you're just going straight into the board meeting.
While you're eating, there will be popcorn in the boardroom,
yes, at all times. And beef milkshakes, you have a beef
milk?
Dave Jones: Oh yeah, oh yeah, you got it right here. Do
Adam Curry: you have a good beef now? You're not, not that crap
you were drinking last week, because that was a chocolate.
That was a problem. Was a problem.
Dave Jones: Back to God's flavor. Jonathan feels
Adam Curry: kind of bad doing a fun, energetic show today. Why?
You know, for the past seven boom, thank you. For the past 72
hours, I have been tuned into the ham bands. I'm buying jet
fuel and 100 ll at every airport I can find. I mean, what is
happening in western North Carolina is messed up. Brother
Dave Jones: can Okay, um, let me, let me say we were going so
me and me and Melissa were going to go to, we've had this trip
planned for months. We were gonna go in October, the like,
in a couple of weeks, we were gonna go and hike a section of
the Appalachian Trail, yeah, that's clearly off, you know,
off the table now, because of, because of this so much damage
to to the trail, yeah, so and, and I've seen I've seen little
I've been very busy, and I've seen little bits of of news
coming out of North Carolina, and I've seen some of the places
that I'm familiar with, around Asheville that got just
destroyed, yeah, but like, can I don't feel like I have a full
scope of what's happened, do you?
Adam Curry: Yes, I do, and I think you don't have it by
design. I'll give you the abbreviated version, because we
have a lot of producers in the area, a lot of no agenda
producers. I just become acquainted with this guy,
Justin, who has a shoe company, op way Made in America, handmade
leather sneakers, high end stuff. And he just reached out
to me, you know, a day before the hurricane. It's like, yeah,
I want to make a no agenda sneaker. And we've been
listening for, you know, 10 years, and we're millennials,
and we love it, you know. And and his entire factory is
destroyed, and so he's been kind of my boots on the ground, and
he has, his brother is a firefighter. He's about 30
minutes outside of Asheville. He says, okay, dude, it's not
hundreds. There's 1000s of dead 1000s. He says, You have no idea
how bad it is. There is no response state or federal that
they've seen and they've been without power. They have a well,
but they've been without power for six days.
Dave Jones: Well, do they have a well that can handle that means
electric pump? Well,
Adam Curry: yeah, he put a generator on. He's he says he
was lucky, because he's kind of prepared, but you gotta imagine,
like there's no electricity. ATMs don't work. People don't
have cash. I mean, it's just but people are cut off from from all
civilization up on the mountaintops and so, as is
typical in America, we just jump in. And doesn't matter what your
background, race, creed, religion, age, political
affiliation, none of that matters. We all jump into
chainsaws and you go, right? And so, because it's the mountains,
there's this Redneck Air Force That Is that has kind of
assembled, and it's everybody who has a helicopter. There's
tons of YouTube videos of guys with their own personal
helicopters, taken in water and blankets and taken people out
and and what the travesty is, you know this, there's a lot of
conspiracy theories. And you know, that's my that's my jam.
So I'm looking into everything. It's like, oh, no, they, they've
let this all flood because they want an eminent domain. The
court's mind, the lithium, you know, they, they, they, I'm
like, no, no. What has happened here is all government,
particularly American governments, our federal our
state governments. There. They are incapable. They are, they
are. Are completely not capable of doing anything. We've We've
wound up with this bunch of pencil pushers who, you know,
draw up there in the on whiteboards and plans, and
they're creating ideas and they have, they're unable to do
anything. And
Dave Jones: then there come there comes a point in any sort
of devastation or tra or tragedy of this scale, where, where it
nobody wants to admit it, but it very much gets out. You can't,
you can't even really respond on that level, like we saw it. The
same thing happened with Katrina for for, for weeks. I mean,
people, there was just barely any. Nobody even knew where to
start. You don't know what to do. You don't know where to
begin. Like there really was no way to even start the process
from, from if you look at it from a top down, if you're
looking at it from top down, there is no, there's no way to
even start. It has to be a I mean, but
Adam Curry: dude, just look at the people that we have in
charge. My Yorkers. I mean this. These people are incompetent.
They have completely forgotten and forsaken their true mission.
They're not capable of it. And media can't cover this simple
fact. That's why you're not seeing all that much. They
should have helicopters all over, flying everywhere, showing
the devastation. But they can, because we're electric cycle. I
Dave Jones: saw that there's some city. It's like bat basic
bat chick or something. They got 31 inches. Yeah, right, yeah.
That's, that's
Adam Curry: the numbers I'm hearing too. 31 inches is
Dave Jones: you can't, no infrastructure. It doesn't.
There is not an infrastructure you can build that will survive,
that no,
Adam Curry: it won't. It's gone. But you know, in addition to
that, the the incompetence of our weather system. You know,
they were telling people, oh, it's just some gusts and it's
not too bad, and, oh, it'll be big, but it may be 80 miles, you
know, 35 miles an hour, 80 mile an hour gusts. They they're
running computer models to prove that climate change is real. Man
made climate change, and they're incapable of warning people
properly. This was a mother of all stars, yeah, a mother of all
storms. And so it's all just, you know, especially North
Carolina, I remember, oh, when it was about gender neutral
bathrooms and men playing in women's sports, I push for
abortions. Oh, yeah, oh, we're all out here now this like, oh,
okay, I'm I'm your governor, and we're working on coordinating
what? Meanwhile, there's people just, you know, using trucks and
and helicopters and flying medication and insulin with
their own drones. Then the, then the feds come in and say, okay,
temporary flight restriction area. You can't fly here with
your drone, because we're, you're going to get in the way
of our operations.
Dave Jones: Yeah, Bill Me, you know, that's, I mean, that's,
that's the way that works is, you know, sim, you know, send me
a bill, I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. I mean,
it's just the way people dug out of Katrina, ignoring the Feds
exactly, and just doing what they knew needed to be done down
their own street,
Adam Curry: yes, and that's what's happening. And I feel
very especially as a helicopter pilot. I'm a little too old now
for this. I could have certainly gone, you know, flown copilot
with somebody. I feel so helpless. So I just, I know,
each time you come back to base, it's three to $500 to fill that
bird up. So I'm just like, I'm just calling up airports, and
everyone's doing it like, you need gas. All right, just give
them your credit card. Boom, buy some gas. That's all I can do,
really.
Dave Jones: I went to, I went to Asheville. You know, we went to
Asheville a couple years ago. We were doing the show. Then I
think I talked about it as we went up there for a little bit
of a vacation and went to, is it Chimney Rock? Yeah?
Adam Curry: Oh, no, Chimney Rock is gone. It's completely gone.
Yeah, that
Dave Jones: was a cute, it was a such a cute little town, right
there, yeah, like
Adam Curry: 12,000 people or something, or 20, no more than
20,000 very small like Frederick's book. Basically,
Dave Jones: it's just, I mean, like, it's just gone. It was a
small town on it's a small town on the bank of a basically, some
rapids. And those rapids are, you have to walk down quite a
bit. They're probably, I would say, at least 12 to No. It's
more than that. It's probably 15 feet below the level of where
the town is, is where the is, where these rapids are. So if
it, I mean, if it rose, no, that was crazy. It's crazy. I mean,
then it's, I mean, it's just going to take everything out.
Adam Curry: So overflow this banks. So the i. So this is a
lesson, a lesson for everybody. Your government is not coming to
help. They're weak, they're wimpy, they're woke. They are
pencil pushers. It's, you know, it's, this is the same
complaints I hear from our military personnel. Who are
these guys? What are they doing? They don't they have no idea
what they're doing anymore. It's just we've we've put an
administrative state in place that is incapable. The only
thing they can do is say, well, we need more money. That's
literally what Mayorkas is saying. Well, I need more money
to do this. Dude spend. Get the credit card. We'll deal with
that later. Go, go, go, go, go, you know. And then they can't
agree. Well, we haven't had title, you 10 approved yet by
the governor, so we can't. They've got Chinook 40 sevens
and 60s ready to go at Liberty base. And, no, we can't fly him
because, you know, we don't have the permit. It's so stupid.
It's, it's, it's disappointing.
Dave Jones: This has happened in my lifetime. This change from
when a disaster happens, you the community recovers. As as switch
to when a disaster happens, everybody looks to the
government, waits for the government. Yes, exactly. It's
it started. You know, I think it started. It started under the
George Bush, senior, yeah, remember brownie? Good job,
Brownie. And then, and then it turned and then it really
accelerated under the first Bush with Katrina and all that kind
of stuff and And what's crazy? I mean, excuse me, the W, W,
everybody thought that what's crazy is they, they showed that
they were incapable to respond properly to Katrina, because
they, what was the first thing they did, they cordon they they
corralled everybody into the Superdome.
Adam Curry: That was, that was horrible people getting ready.
The whole thing was out
Dave Jones: of control. Oh, it was like hell on earth. And
then, you know, and I remember, I still remember, to this day,
for it didn't even start up for, I think, a couple of weeks, all
of a sudden there was just Trent. You'd get stopped by a
train, and it would just be hundreds of these FEMA white
cars going by. Yeah, you remember those trailers? Oh
yeah,
Adam Curry: the one was formaldehyde. Then went on to
poison everybody, uh
Dave Jones: huh. And then New Orleans was never, has never
been the same since. And I guarantee you, the same thing is
going to happen with this. People are going to there's a
certain amount of devastation where people just have to leave
in order to survive. They have to go somewhere else. And a
percentage of them, sometimes a large percentage of them, will
just never come
Adam Curry: back. And what's sad to me is people have such
distrust in their government that that with their where their
brain goes is, this was a setup. This was harp the weather
modification they wanted, the land, eminent domain. No, it's
much simpler. They're incapable. They are not capable of doing
this, and
Dave Jones: was that never, never a tribute to malice.
What's explained by incompetence? Oh,
Adam Curry: beautiful, beautiful. That's, I forgot that
one Absolutely. So we just been buying gas and praying, man,
that's all we can do. That's all we can do down here and
communicating. You know, lots of people got my number, so let me
know whatever I can do if doesn't matter how small it is,
the hams have been actually quite amazing, as disappointed
as I was when we had the snow Apocalypse here in in Texas four
or five years ago. I mean, they've had emergency nets that
have been up 24/7, their hands off. They're they're doing
everything from contacting people to let them know they're
okay to, hey, I need 100 foot of corrugated pipe. You know, it's,
it's, yeah, that, that, to me, is, gives me a lot of hope in
our country. And I so I checked out the radio stations on
TuneIn, TuneIn, annoying, annoying jingle they've got, and
both NPR stations. This is Terry, gross, fresh air. Okay,
so I listened to the country stations, the top 40 stations.
Everybody's on network based programming, just playing music,
the faith broadcasters, the Christian stations, they're
doing food drives. They're organizing at their church.
They're taking in money. Yeah, you know, it's like, okay,
someone's doing something. It's just ah,
Dave Jones: do you remember also in the last, also in the
lifetime of this, of this, of this boardroom, it was Ed guy
from radio, Inc, I can't remember his last name, Ed Ryan.
Oh yeah, sure, sure, sure. Ed Ryan, when Tampa Bay
Adam Curry: got, oh, yes, he, he was doing all kinds of stuff.
Yeah,
Dave Jones: him and his wife, they, they got on a live stream.
They were doing a live stream every single day saying, you
know, and they would take, they were taking call ins. People
would call in, yeah, hey, I live on. I live at 22 Appalachia
drive, or whatever, you know, my I need. Some gas. And, okay,
somebody get this guy a couple gallons of gas. And it was just
like that for, for like, maybe three weeks. Oh,
Adam Curry: and it was and, but already the news move right on
to breaking new allegations against Trump. Like, whoa. This
is so, so so wrong. And there's
Dave Jones: no, I mean, there's, I just, I just looked at, like,
New York Times. There's no, not a single mention of it. No,
anywhere, anywhere on the first page,
Adam Curry: because it's political season and everyone's
pointing fingers at each other. Oh, it's that guy's fault. Oh,
it's lieutenant governor. Oh, okay, well, whatever. So go.
Redneck Air Force. Is what I say. Redneck Air Force, that's
what I'm calling them, the Raymond Air Force. Yes. All
right. Happier news after last week's board meeting, I was at
the podcasters virtual Summit, Bitcoin for podcasters. Host,
yes, I need a report, yes, hosted by DJ Valerie. Be Love.
It was, it was actually I put a link in our show notes. It was
great. It was really on, she did a fireside chat, which was on
Zoom, and so we talked, and, you know, this was obviously Bitcoin
focus, which was fine. And Oscar was on, Barry from pod home,
Moritz from Albie. I know I'm forgetting people now, but it
was good, you know, we did a panel afterwards and talked a
lot of, Oh, Ben, from what's the from Ellen bits. Oh, okay. And I
asked him, right there on the panel, Hey, Ben. Ben, man, can
you bump that. PR for us, the Yes, of course, I'll bump that
Sure. You know, nice. They're about to go into 1.0 so there's
a lot going on with those guys, and I understand, you know, I
comprehend what that means. Let me put it that way. Yeah, sure.
So nice guy, though, the, you know, he's like, oh, you know,
we really want to make this work and and it's interesting,
because at the same time, Albie hub for start nine came out
officially in the marketplace, in the Start nine marketplace.
Oh, okay, now I understand what it does. This is great. It's
very impressive.
Dave Jones: So, we've not, we've not had a clip. I mean, are you
saying that we did that? We've misunderstood what this is.
Adam Curry: No, no, no, no. Haven't misunderstood at all.
But now it's, it's okay. So they've released this for your
own benefit. You can run on your own server, and you know what it
does is it, in essence, transforms your lightning node
into kind of, I would just call it a like an umbrell for for
lightning apps. So there's this whole store, and then you can
connect any lightning app to your node with ease. So linking
my Get out, my get Albie address, so I still had a legacy
wallet, and I think I had maybe 600,000 SATs in there. And
Dave Jones: your Alby, well, in your in your album, yeah, my
Yeah, that's a lie, yeah. Well,
Adam Curry: I use it, you know, I dump stuff. Dump stuff in
there. I take a split on some of my shows to put to keep the keep
the flow going, just a little bit, to keep filling it up. But
I usually deplete it because I'm I like to boost, I like to boost
my balls. And yes, you do and and so you click, it connects,
and then right away, I could send that balance over with one
click of the button. They have their own wallet called albigo,
which is just a very, very simple lightning wallet. Boom,
click. I mean, it works incredibly well. And then, of
course, there's 1000 nostra apps, but there's all kinds of
other stuff that you can connect to it, and you can act as an
Uncle Jim node, so you can, yeah, so that's the equivalent
of Ellen bits.
Dave Jones: So that's the thing, or that's the thing that we
that's the thing that Albie wanted us to do for podcast
apps. Yeah, no
Adam Curry: way. There's no way we can do that now we're going
to go to jail. So no, we can't do that, right? And I get it,
but no, we can't do that. But I am doing it for, I'm doing it
for, for Jimmy, I'm doing for a couple other people who want to
move off of, you know, have over a million SATs in there. Get
Alby accounts, and they're getting messages like, hey, hey,
hey, you gotta, you gotta move stuff out and, and so I'm gonna
set up some accounts for them, just to make it easy anyway. So
that was the, that was the virtual Summit, and, and it was
great. And thank you. DJ Valerie. B, love for hosting
that she's wonderful. I didn't, I didn't know her personally.
I'd seen her at a value for value I think at the Bitcoin
Conference, she did a value for value panel. She's She's bright,
she's quite an asset to the value verse. Then I. We had
episode 1700 of no agenda
Dave Jones: and that, and that was,
Adam Curry: that was yesterday, okay? And, you know, our, yeah,
these, like these, like milestone numbers, you know,
1700 it'll be 17 years of that show on october 26 that's huge.
Man, congratulations. Almost as long as my first marriage, so
John will be my longest wife ever.
Dave Jones: Congratulations. Man, that's a huge deal. And
just, I mean, the staying power. I mean just, just this show is
to, let's see this show was, has only been a little over four
years, four years just seeing, like, just four years seeing the
the real commitment of time it takes to prep and show up and do
the show every I mean, like, it's 17 years. Or, excuse me, I
mean, 1700 shows is amazing. So
Adam Curry: I just want to remind people of the secrets,
because there are some very basic rules. If you want to have
a successful value for value podcast, you always have to have
your feedback loop when you know however you do it, when people
are sending in money or, well, we don't have boost yet coming,
but we have PayPal and Stripe and and, you know, so we have a
thank you. So we actually have two Thank you segments. We have
incentives like, you know, if you your cumulative $1,000
There's many people who have been doing $4 a week for, you
know, years and oops, all of a sudden they look, they look at
their accounting, like, Hey, I've reached it. They get a
ring. You know, it's like, it's like, our version of the tote
bag, only much cooler. Obviously, we always release,
but we don't release. We record live same time. Every single
time it's we've had one or two, maybe a handful of instances
where we've had to start later for some travel or something
like that. But in general, it's always the same time. The live
stream and the chat room, which we call the troll room, I think,
has been instrumental, and I've always advocated for live
production. It's just, it's just better you have a live studio
audience, you've got a you've got your instant feedback loop
like we have now in the boardroom. It's, it's incredibly
important.
Dave Jones: I would, I don't think you know, we did the first
maybe, what, 50 episodes of this show, not live.
Adam Curry: I usually, I thought we did live right away. We
didn't do it live right away. No, it may
Dave Jones: not have been 50. It was it was early, but we did.
Maybe we did a few months without, without the live. It
may have been like, 30 episodes, 25 something like that. But
Adam Curry: once we got the chat tag in, there's probably like,
hey, there's a chat tag. Let's do it live, right?
Dave Jones: Yes, we were waiting for something like that, and we
did it and like, I don't even think if we had to go back to
doing it, not, I don't even think I'd want to do the show.
No, it's
Adam Curry: not as fun. It's not it's not exactly so there's,
there's that aspect which and we never edit anything. I mean,
yeah, if there's a huge technical issue. I'll take out
the junk if necessary. But in general, we don't edit in fact,
the biggest joke is, don't worry, I'll edit that out. No
one will ever know the difference. I did that to Tina
the other day on curry and the keeper, and then she came to me
next day, Hey, you forgot to edit that out. I'm like, How
long have you known me? Like, I'm not gonna edit that out.
That's great. People love hearing the flubs and that
stuff. And then I think the well, we also, by the way, we
accept checks. I say 40% of our value for value comes in through
people who send checks in America. You can send it
automatically from your bank. You know the processing is
almost no fees and and people get very creative, and they send
in handwritten notes. And anyhow, so the feedback loop is
critical.
Dave Jones: Don't tell me. I never want to hear that people
that this something is, quote, too much friction. If, if
somebody's if 40% of your donations are people that have
sit, sat down with a with a a pen and a check and then mailed
it to you. Yep, that is some serious that's about as the most
friction as you can possibly get.
Adam Curry: Yeah, no, they love doing it. They love it. What was
the other thing I was going to say? Oh, of course, value for
value is time, talent and treasure we have. From the
beginning always said, Hey, you can't support us with money. You
can promote us be online if you know, we've never built our own
website, coded monkey did the most recent one for us. Tim,
which is noagendashow.net. We have the no agenda meetups, all.
Producer organized. Everyone organizes that themselves. We
just. Promote it. We play their promos. We play their reports.
You know, I'll actually spend time editing the really crappy
ones where we're going to hand the phone around, edit all that
out. The art we have, we've, almost from the beginning, we've
had new artwork for every episode, no agenda. Art
Generator, also built by one of our producers, Sir Paul couture,
that has, you know, and then the boots on the ground once we kind
of got people trained, like, if you if you hear us talking about
something, or if there's something in the news that you
know about, because everybody has a specialty, it is your
obligation to email us and tell us what's really going on. And
so, I mean, with this, with this, with this hurricane Helene
thing, it's been almost overwhelming. So my job, I'm
really an information gatherer, and so there's no way on value
for value we could afford producers, by the way, I produce
the show. John does all the he writes the newsletter. This is
the other critical part before every show. The day before a
newsletter goes out, he has a template. He has it templatized
at this point, but there's thought that goes into it. He
sends me the copy. I proofread it. Send it back to him. Stuff
still messes up, of course, I think we even sends it to a
third person, another producer, who checks it, and the whole
purpose of that newsletter is twofold. One, we have another
show coming up tomorrow. Remember, your life is busy.
We're reminding you that we're gonna do another show tomorrow.
And yes, we need you to support us. And it works, and we're not
bashful about it. And And if people found no value, they
would not send us value. And that's the most honest media
I've ever been involved in, coincidentally, the longest
media job I've ever had in my life.
Dave Jones: No, it is, isn't it? Oh,
Adam Curry: by a long shot, MTV was half of the Mt. No. MTV was
seven years, seven and a half years. So, oh yeah, it's
interesting. It's been the longest media gig I've ever had,
and, you know, I'm gonna die spitting in the mic one way or
the other.
Dave Jones: I mean, of course you will. That's who you are.
So,
Adam Curry: so when I you know, so I always approach the podcast
industry in a very different way, because I can also look at
my stats and the majority of people we have. A lot of people
using pod verse, a lot of people using podcast guru, a lot of
people using fountain, like big numbers, like 30, 40% like big
numbers, because I tell them this is you want to get notified
within 90 seconds, use one of these apps. You know, you want
to get a bat signal when we go live. Use one of these apps. You
want to see all the other cool pieces of art that people
created that we didn't choose as album art. Drab, Scott, thank
you. Dr. Scott, another valuable value for value contribution. He
puts in album art that he pulls right from the Art Generator.
This is the new type of media that people need to be looking
at, and the apps, I think can do an even better job at creating
this loop. You know, these feedback loops are critical.
This is where a lot of video falls down, which is why, one of
the reasons I don't think it's that important, you know,
because video, by itself, is very difficult to do video and
be interactive. You know, it's like, I can be doing the show
and and I can be looking at the boardroom and seeing what people
are saying and interacting with them. We've got booster grams
firing off with different sounds. All of these things are
happening in real time. And if I also had to figure out what
camera I'm looking at, or what the shot is, or have someone do
that, forget about it. And it's no longer intimate. This is an
intimacy of epic proportions. And
Dave Jones: I think, I think you're, I mean, the you have
standing to say that, because you did TV for a long time. You
didn't, you did video for many years, yeah, so you, I mean,
it's not like, and you did, you know, you also did video
podcasts, people, you know, sure, I don't think people,
maybe people don't remember, like, the big book show and the
big App Show, big book show, yeah, those were video shows.
Those are video podcasts. And you, and you did them. So you
have, like, when you speak about these things, it's not like,
you're just theoretical. You actually did them and, like, did
them very early too,
Adam Curry: which is why I never made any money very early. Yeah,
Dave Jones: it's always been your problem. Always too
Adam Curry: early. Now I can see interview shows. It's
interesting to see the interview subject. I mean, I get all that.
So when I was listening to power the partners weekly review, and
they had the interview with the Spotify lady, and, you know, and
she goes right into, well, a podcast can be whatever people
call it, not dependent upon RSS. By the way, it's RSS. There's no
such thing as open RSS, just Rs. Us, and to me, I remember we
started podcasting, and I don't know if I still have that, if I
still have that jingle, I guess not. It was transmitters. We
don't need no string stinking transmitters, you know. So to
say that it's it doesn't matter how it's distributed. It does.
It does matter because you're not in control. And how many
times do we see someone get kicked off of YouTube? How long
before you build up your audience with spot up video on
Spotify, which only is on Spotify before something happens
or you're not in control? That was the whole point is, you're
in the advertising industry. They should be. They should be
outraged about this. The whole beauty of RSS distribution is
you put your ad in one place. It goes to all the apps. What now
you got to have conversations with everybody else the Anyway,
did, I
Dave Jones: don't know if you pulled any clip of that. I
didn't
Adam Curry: know. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't pull it. I have
the, what are we drinking?
Dave Jones: This is the last of the Lacroix here.
Adam Curry: Oh, I have, I have a Lacroix. I forgot what I have in
it. Though I have, actually the James was kind enough to post.
So what is a podcast? Maybe we should just play that bit here.
I love
Unknown: this question. This is something that I've thought
about a lot over the years, as I think, you know, I was the first
employee at anchor back in the day, way too many years ago, I
stayed with Yes.
Dave Jones: So this, I guess it's just the political season
that we're in, but this is the, I forgot what the original
question was.
Adam Curry: So, what is a podcast?
Dave Jones: What is a podcast? Yes, so this is the I was born
in a middle class family.
Unknown: Podcast. Look,
Adam Curry: I was born in a middle class family. I
Unknown: love this question. This is something that I've
thought about a lot over the years, as I think, you know, I
was the first employee at anchor back in the day, way too many
years ago, I stayed with the company through our sale to
Spotify, and now I lead product for Spotify podcast team. So
I've been through a lot of evolutions of podcasts over the
years. Gotten a lot of thoughts from creators and from
listeners, and I also have a few podcasts myself, so I've seen
this up close, everything from how people distribute to what
formats they're producing to how they find new audiences and how
they interact with the people listening. A lot of that has
been changing and sort of questioned over the years. So
where I've landed is, I think it's less about the delivery
mechanism or whether it's audio or video. It's also really not
up to me or any person or company to define. I think a
podcast is whatever podcast creators and listeners say it
is, and they're telling us more and more that to them, a podcast
can be video, it can be interactive, it can exist
outside of an RSS feed. And since all of those things
introduce new great opportunities for podcasters, I
don't see why we wouldn't lean into them as an industry. I will
try to answer your actual question, though. I think that
at its core, the things that attract people to podcasts as a
medium have remained the same, even as all of these things have
been evolving. It's about information, connection, great
storytelling, and I don't really see that changing, despite, you
know, whatever continues to happen with the with the format
itself.
Adam Curry: So I agree that connection is a big part of it
storytelling, I mean the content. We often in the
industry, we no longer talk about the content just by
growing your show discovery. No, if it sucks, it sucks. If it's
small, it's small. If it's meant for a small audience, it's gonna
be a small audience. That's it's not the thinking is still so old
world, like we gotta grow. It gotta be big. Gotta be the
biggest. No, no, we, right now, have 46 people in the troll
room. We may have twice that listening, and it doesn't
matter. It's the right people. It's our people. We're
sustaining an entire infrastructure on this, this
ragtag crew. That's what it's about now. But then to say it
can exist, it doesn't matter what the distribution is. Well,
I'll argue against that. I think a blog without an RSS feed is
dumb. Almost every system on the internet today poops out an XML
feed of some version, usually RSS with good reason. So it does
matter, and the fact that Spotify is allowing you to
upload video that can't leave their their garden is dumb of on
their accord, it's dumb. It won't work.
Dave Jones: I've got, you know us a. Heard the, heard these. I
heard this, this, you know, quote, unquote interview, which
kind of wasn't really that
Adam Curry: was an email interview, and she recorded some
of the answers, which was, which was nice, like, you can't make
time just have little chat. I mean, they have the Spotify PR
right there to make sure your answers were right. Or, what was
that that was? That
Dave Jones: one thing, one thing I was unclear about is what it
sounded like they reached out and said, Hey, we're now, we're
now going to do some email interviews. Would you like to
ask us some questions? Oh, I
Adam Curry: don't know. I don't know exactly how that went,
Dave Jones: but I may have misunderstood that. Maybe James
can clarify. Maybe he asked for it. But it's that struck I think
that that struck me as odd. But anyway, and I was sitting back
and thinking about this, this whole thing, and they it's
pretty obvious why. It's pretty well obvious from the beginning
why people want to define podcasting as something other
than RSS based delivery. This has always been the case,
because if they broaden the definition of what a podcast is,
just like we heard from Oxford road from Dan Granger, it opens
up the advertising dollars that are locked into certain channels
Adam Curry: like YouTube and Tiktok and reels and Instagram.
Yeah.
Dave Jones: What Granger said was, if they is, if they define
a podcast as as being also a YouTube video or, you know, etc,
then the advertising agencies don't have to go back and ask
for they don't have to walk across the hall and ask for
money from that other group, so that, I mean, that's clearly the
the issue there. But I just don't think, you know, but I
think it's bigger than that. I don't think advertise,
advertising is not a big, huge, is not a huge moneymaker for
Spotify. I don't think, I mean, we've seen their numbers.
They're recently profitable, and they're basking in that,
clearly, and I don't what, what always struck me was that the
advertising revenue is not huge for them. It's if without
subscribers are the bulk of their income. Do they need
people to pay for these? Yes. And so, you know, the people I
think this should be concerned, I've actually got a lot of
thoughts about this, more than I thought I did. It's kind of
coming to me. The the people that I think should be concerned
about Spotify themselves as a threat by the podcast hosting
companies, yeah, um, I don't see how Spotify continues without
turning Spotify for podcasters into some sort of paid, some
kind
Adam Curry: of revenue generator, yeah, yeah. Well, the
only way, perhaps, with video support, you know, well, the
only thing that they can really do now is you upload to us, and
we jam ads in there, and we give you a, you know, like YouTube,
we give you a tiny, tiny bit, right? That's the only, that's
the model that clearly let me just play this, this. This is
the last one I'll do, because you can listen, you can read it,
links in the show notes. James played a lot of it on podcast,
weekly review. This is the how important is open RSS? I just, I
just have to say it's RSS. Is there any closed RSS? I guess
you know, private feeds, but just say RSS to Spotify, and how
will you continue supporting it? Now listen to this, because she
kind of contradicts herself.
Unknown: So obviously, one of the main benefits of podcasting
has always been that creators can really easily distribute
their content to multiple platforms, and consumers have
the choice of where and how they want to listen to it. Yes, and I
think the benefits of wide distribution for creators in
particular are more apparent than ever. You've seen this
reflected in Spotify strategy with shows like Joe Rogan and
science, versus going back to being available everywhere.
Adam Curry: So okay, so thank you for admitting that it was
not a good idea to have Joe Rogan exclusive to Spotify and
because he couldn't make it pay. Obviously, I have no idea what
the actual deal is worth. Up to is meaningless to me. So why
then are you making your the video exclusive to Spotify, and
it can't go to anywhere you want to play it. This is the
contradiction.
Unknown: So we understand that RSS plays an important role in
giving creators more control over their content, and we
definitely plan to continue supporting both on and off
platform distribution for shows that are hosted with Spotify, as
well as allowing podcasters to keep distributing their content
to Spotify from other hosts over RSS. Nothing is changing there,
yeah, except for video that said, do have more tools and
functionality on Spotify that goes beyond what RSS supports,
and for us, that's not about exclusivity. We want to be able
to keep innovating on the format and opening up new. Avenues for
fans and creators to connect with each other, for creators to
have options about how to monetize and how to express
themselves and customize their show. So we will keep doing
that. But as you've noted, and hopefully most of your audience
have noticed, throughout this year, we're going to continue to
invest in the open ecosystem as much as we can. It's a really
big priority to me to make sure that all podcasters can get the
most possible value out of Spotify. So whether it's through
RSS and through or through our own tools, either way, that's
always our goal is just helping podcasters get get the most out
of our platform. Yeah, I just
Adam Curry: don't believe that she's, she's, it's a lie.
Dave Jones: My take on this is a little different. I mean, we
have to look at this in context. Look at the look at what Spotify
podcasting division was four years ago, and look at what it
is today. It's completely different. It's tiny compared to
what it was. This is a company that was putting billions of
dollars into podcasting. Now we don't even, we don't even know
what those numbers are there. It's is insignificant to their
bottom line. Yeah. So the what, what I see here is not, I see a
company that came back down to earth as far as podcasting goes.
In this video, push number one, I do not trust their numbers at
all. When it comes to how many people want video, they say it's
like 40% Yeah, sure. I just do not. I don't I just do not. Why
don't they
Adam Curry: have, like, only music videos? Why is it just
music tracks? They should be doing music videos. Everyone
loves music video. Everyone loves music videos. Everyone
wants
Dave Jones: music videos, don't they? I think, I think they are
trying to broaden away from being slaves to the music
publishing company. Yes, of course. And they need to flip
the script to get a measure of control over that. So like I'm
I'm gonna compliment Spotify here and say that I think that
this is a company that's good at seeing what the next hype cycle
is and taking advantage of it. That doesn't mean necessarily
jumping in with both feet. It's just they, they've always been
good at riding the whatever the wave is that they need to ride
to get through the next economic cycle. And
Adam Curry: yeah, which is every three months for the next
reporting period. Yeah,
Dave Jones: what does that say about what the next cycle is? I
mean, look at what they're doing. They've they've just
dabbled in AI. They've not really done a lot of serious
stuff with AI, which tells me that AI is dead cat. You know,
that's not a big priority for them. I think they saw that.
That was a waste. They don't call them video podcasts. They
call it video Yeah, I don't think that they are, I don't
think ultimately they're really interested in podcasters.
Adam Curry: I can tell you whether, sorry, go ahead, does.
I
Dave Jones: don't think they're interested in podcasters. I
think what they what they see, is the death of television, and
they're trying to position themselves for what that that
for what that looks like, the post streaming world of video. I
bet you they, I bet you, within a year or two, maybe they'll
make, they'll start to make plays for some video content
sports, right? I think here's what I think their ultimate play
is. I think they want to be Amazon Prime. They already, they
already have merch and tickets and all these things, just like
Sam mentioned on the show, Spotify reminds me of Hulu. It's
a company that's that's owned essentially by the publishing
companies, and they're forever trying to get out of that
pigeonhole, yeah, so that they so that they're not slaves
Adam Curry: to that. Yeah, which they are, they're slaves
companies. So
Dave Jones: I'm not, I'm not really that interested in their
views on RSS, because I think at this point in time, just like
Amazon music is if they have a podcast, a podcast division that
does some stuff from time to time, but, like, if you but I
don't think that's it's really sort of an afterthought to the
company at large. I don't really think that it's just not their
focus. I mean, like, audiobooks was just a tool that Spotify
needed to get leverage over pricing. I think podcasting is
just another tool in their bag that they're used, that they
need, sometimes to get some sort of leverage out of it. I just
don't think ultimately they care that much about it.
Adam Curry: I think you're you're spot on, and kudos to
Chad F because he nails it. What they should be doing next to
make money is they should become Spotify for only fans. You.
Should have, yeah, you should be able to do only fans live stream
on Spotify. You know, pay for it, password, protected, age
verified. They can do all of it. They should do that. They'll
make, they'll make billions.
Dave Jones: Buy only fans. Yeah, well, I
Adam Curry: think only fans out. I even out of their reach at
this point. Yeah, it's amazing how the money they make.
Dave Jones: I think we also forget how big Spotify is
outside of the United States, yeah, outside of the US, like
because they what they could become, is they could become the
Amazon Prime, prime of everywhere others in the US.
Yeah,
Adam Curry: good point. Good point. Anyway.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, good luck to them. That's a good way
to say it, because I don't, I'm just not that interested in what
their views on RSS are. Because I don't think they're that
interested in what their views on RSS I think they have a few
point Yeah, they have a few people left over there who are
actually doing this work, and it's just not, I just don't
think they care that much. I mean, those people do, because
it's their job, but I mean the company at large, I just don't
it's largely uninteresting to me, and and and podcasting, RSS,
the RSS ecosystem of podcasting, which is, you know, the hosting
companies and the in the in the the podcasters themselves, in
the infrastructure people, the we're going to take care of
ourselves, yeah, because spot I mean, Spotify, may they could.
Well, this is another thing too. Is, um, we're talking about AI.
AI is, is people, people who have built on AI hosting
companies and other companies. That concerns me a bit, because
that, that whole thing, but you, you sent me an article, a really
good article called The subprime AI crisis. Yeah, that
Adam Curry: same guy wrote a follow up to it, which is even
better. I haven't sent it to you yet, but yeah. Okay, so open AI,
in essence, for every dollar they make, they spend $2.35
currently, currently, currently, currently, so unsustainable,
they're already talking about everything in technology has
always been to reduce costs, and every improvement in technology
is supposed to make the system more cost efficient, you know,
less power consumption. Look at the laptops. I mean, it's all
about faster processor, lower power consumption, longer
battery life. This
Dave Jones: is the opposite. Yeah, these costs are going up.
Yeah, we
Adam Curry: need thorium reactors, otherwise we can't
handle it. You know, it costs $100 million to build a large
language model, and that's just the entry point at this at this
stage. So, and they're not charging that, just they're not
charging the money that it costs. I mean, open, AI is
already talking about moving, you know, they're going to
increase 10% to $22 a month. Ultimate goal will be $44 a
month in, you know, four or five years, I think it'll go much,
much higher. And at a certain point, how much, how much you're
willing to pay to not write your own description and your own
chapter titles.
Dave Jones: That's yeah, if people have not read that
article, look good search for the Google the search subprime
AI crisis in if you know, in there, it says that less than 1%
of Microsoft's paying office 365, customers have subscribed
to their copilot service. Yeah? Because it's expensive. It's,
it's very expensive, 50 bucks. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's you.
You multiply that times a few 1000 seats at your organization,
that's, that is major cash.
Adam Curry: We got a boots on the ground the other day from a
guy who works at Epic, which is the largest medical health
record company, and so the all the executives are all jacked
and jitty about, oh, we all open now we're going to integrate a
eyes can be great. $3,000 a year per seat, 65 cents per a API
query. What? What? Oh, just, just 65 cents. Just to summarize
reports and then send off a hit to another API that says, okay,
pharmacy, write the prescription. In the meantime,
these doctors, they're so they're so jacked on it, they're
writing their patient reports in in chat GPT, which is completely
against all HIPAA regulation. Oh, yeah,
Dave Jones: that's, that's a travesty.
Adam Curry: It's insane. That's all right, whatever. Meanwhile,
back yes,
Dave Jones: no, I was just gonna say that to circle that thought
back around, is that if hosting, if podcast hosting companies and
podcast apps and, you know. They've built some really cool
stuff on AI, I guess I would just warn to have a backup plan,
yeah, for how, because all of the, all of the material that's
coming out of the no matter who you're at, no matter who's API
you're calling, you're ultimately probably calling open
AI or anthropic. Yeah, you know, you're, you're, you're
eventually getting back to one of those two players. And when
this thing crashes, it may go very fast, yeah, and you may not
have a you may have to rip and replace that product. It
Adam Curry: could bring down the economy. We're talking about,
the whole economy. Economies built on this, the hyperscalers.
We got so many data centers coming online now they better be
ready to mine Bitcoin with it. I don't know what else. I don't
know if you can have all this, all these AI customers, anyway,
meanwhile, also,
Dave Jones: it's all good. No, no, no, please, no, please,
please, please. Now I was just gonna say it's also built on
another thing that this article talked about is also all built
on intellectual property, theft, all of it. Yes, the reason it
is, the thing about a large language model, I've said this
before, is that you are all these generative models. Is that
the the model, the the what a model is, it's the algorithm and
the data combined into one big
Adam Curry: blob, yeah, like an interactive database, basically,
yes.
Dave Jones: And so you're the reason that we the that open
AI's most advanced model doesn't know how many letter RS there
are in the word strawberry is because nobody's ever asked that
question before. Yeah, exactly. So it literally does not know,
because that data is not there, and it does re Same reason it
doesn't know how many states start, you know, have the letter
A in it, because it only knows the words that it's seen before.
Even worse, and it said
Adam Curry: Wyoming, yeah, right. So the whole
Dave Jones: notion of emergent properties and all this is
complete BS, it only knows what it's got. The most advanced
models still give horrible answers. And so this, this whole
thing is in being that is built on intellectual property theft.
This the same thing I've seen with mid journey when I've been
using mid journey last few weeks, is in order to get it to
give you good stuff, you have to start giving it keywords of of
known things that you've seen before. You have to you have to
tell it things like, you have to use phrases like, taken with a
Nikon camera, because what that means is it's going to go off
and begin to assemble gender is generative data from things like
Flickr, yeah, and things that it's, or you'll say, you know,
in the style of Norman Rockwell or blah, blah, you start to have
to use these things, which, you know, what you're telling it is
go over here and grab this stuff that you scraped. So this whole
thing is just, it's just a disaster. It's gonna collapse.
Adam Curry: Meanwhile, in the value verse, hot news, December
16 at the famous antones in Austin, Texas. Adam curry. Adam
Curry's booster gram ball live, December 16. No way, way. I had
a chat with open mike. He's the guy that he actually had a hand
in saving small venues during covid. So much longer story. Oh,
nice. But he, of course, set up the Minneapolis show with just
loud and Ainsley Costello, etc, and he called me, you know, he
reached out, and he said, you know, would you be interested
in? Well, it's been an ongoing conversation. He said, Hey, can
we brand this Adam Curry's booster Graham ball live? And I
said, Yeah, but I need some help, because we can't have Adam
Curry's booster Grand Ball live. If booster Graham ball is on,
you know, some kind of permanent ice pack,
Dave Jones: which just doesn't happen when he is in the
freezer, it's in
Adam Curry: the freezer. And so, lo and behold, Jim Costello
reaches out to me the same day before this, before this phone
call. And I say, Jim. And so I said, Jim, I got to talk to you.
And I say, Jim, I realize my problem. It's the same as no
agenda. No agenda. I have producers. And these producers,
they produce stuff, and I just have to bring it all together,
you know, it's a very, it's a very interactive creative
process. And I also have a co host who also is doing this
work, and, and, um, after, you know, 17 years, we have a pretty
good flow, and we don't have a script or anything. We just, it
just melds together and we make. Work. I need someone to do the
work of getting me songs. If you can do that, I can bang out a
boost to Grand Ball. That's easy. I you know. So give me the
songs. Give me the songs you think are good. Here's, you
know, you know what I like, you know, pretty much everything.
Dave Jones: Give me 10 songs a week, you know, something like
that, 14,
Adam Curry: actually. And, and he said, Okay, he's gonna do it.
And so starting next Wednesday, we'll do it every two weeks to
start off with, because it's still, it's, you know, this,
there's and also talking about format, like, you can't a lot of
p, everyone likes, oh, it's the new song. It's the new song that
that's, that's not how you build up artists. That's not how you
make hits. So you give me 14 Songs I'm going to play in in
one hour, I'm going to play three songs, you already know,
and one song that goes way back, you know. So that's, that's how
radio that's how music radio formats work, that you have to
be, oh yeah. That's, oh, I recognize that song,
Dave Jones: you know, like a deep cut, and then stuff, you
know, and then the new stuff. It's actually
Adam Curry: a formula for it. It's called a format block. So
you start off with a banger, then you go into recurrent,
which is between three months and a year old. Then you can do
something that's hot now, then you can do a new song, another
recurrent, you can do another, you know, there's different
formats for it, and it's tried and tested throughout the ages.
So I'm very excited about that, because now, because, you know,
on Wednesdays, it'll be it's for me, it's like, oh, here's the
songs. Throw them together, click the stream on go. I mean,
I don't need much more preparation other than, okay,
let me listen to the songs that these are the ones that have
been chosen for me. And of course, I could say, well, I
want to play this one, or I want to change it out, or whatever,
you know this, I'll have the obvious freedom, but I love Jim
for doing that. And of course, the only other we had talked
about a lot of things, actually. And you know, we're, we're
fortunate that we still have RSS, blue pod, home, wave Lake
and and fountain, because that's the only wallets that we can
really talk about, right? So, you know, we're still desperate
for the Zebedee solution, light, Spark, strike integration. We
need, we need a lot more options for these other apps to tap
into, because otherwise it becomes a very one sided story.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but Eric asked if is phantom power music hour
still gonna go or is that folding into booster grand bowl?
No,
Adam Curry: no, I think he's gonna continue to do that. Okay,
yeah, no, I would hope he doesn't, but he understands the
problem,
Dave Jones: and that's providence. I mean, it's
providence that he, you know, that that those two things came
together on the same day?
Adam Curry: Yeah, yes, it is a god NOD is, as we say, Yes,
Dave Jones: God nine, yeah, totally, totally. And
Adam Curry: I just wanted to mention, with this project.
We're going to be talking about our project in a couple of
weeks, probably, but funding tag will be a big deal. So Apps, you
may see people who have funding tags in their in their feeds,
who are going to want to see that surface in a way that is
clear to see and as interactive as a boost button.
Dave Jones: So I'm just saying they said, Well, we can do a
little namespace if you want to. Yeah, a
Adam Curry: little bit of namespace. And
Unknown: now it's time for some hot namespace talk. Okay,
Adam Curry: I also have a song, so just for your timing,
Dave Jones: on the, I mean, on the side, project, front, uh,
front end, sucks.
Adam Curry: Yeah, gooey. Good. Gooey stuff is, is gooey. It's
gooey.
Dave Jones: Oh, it's the worst. I mean, I had a problem last
night where it was I had one behavior when, this is the
double ad thing that we're not trying to fix, that you know
about that had one behavior when the dev console, Dev Tools,
console of Chrome, was open, and a different behavior when It was
closed. Oh, what that one to me? Wow. I think it's, I think this
is, I think it's all fixed now, but I was for about an hour and
a half. I was like, I hate everything, and I hate the whole
world, and I'm just, I want to quit.
Adam Curry: Don't quit.
Dave Jones: But it's all it's all good, but face phase seven,
I just, I just polish that turd out and just just send it off
into space.
Adam Curry: It's done. It was a turd. And you polish it. Is
that? What you're saying?
Dave Jones: No, it's, it's fine. It's phase seven is now closed,
and I never. Want to see it or hear the term face, okay?
Because it was a long, painful process, very
Adam Curry: painful phase.
Dave Jones: Eric, it was not caching that. I know what you're
talking about. With disabling caches, there's a checkbox that
was, that was not, that did not have anything to do
Adam Curry: with it. How dare you question the pod sage,
Dave Jones: that's the first as the first thing I did had it did
not affect this issue at all. Phase, yeah, so phase seven is
just, is done. Funding. The funding tag is now item level.
Item level. Yes, I
Adam Curry: saw made that change. Stephen B made those
changes in sovereign fees, which I highly appreciate. So he did
added also a publisher feed. You can, you can now be a publisher
feed. Couple other things. It's good. I love sovereign fees.
I've been running on it for four years. That was without
sovereign feeds, this project would be in big trouble. Oh,
yeah for sure. Because if we can't publish the stuff that
that we're talking about. Then why would anybody else? So,
Dave Jones: yeah, bless, bless Stephen Bell, yes. So that
changed. The funding tag changes now, now in effect, and I put
announcements on these things for the only GitHub and on and
on the podcast, index, social plant, you know. So I wanted to
talk briefly about a plan to make the changes to the images
tag this week. We discussed that before with Nathan's changes,
but this relates to Russell, Russell's, ish Russell's want of
the banner tag, and so that whole thing for I just want to
speak briefly about that. So the the images tag, I'm going to
change to fit Nathan's changes, because I think that makes a lot
of sense, that can, that can exist regardless of the banner
stuff. So the banner stuff does not. It does because those
changes are being made doesn't mean that you can't have a tag
called banner um. So don't get too upset about that, but it it
got me thinking about a plan for the for things like the banner
tag. So and what I mean is, what I mean is that we have
situations that come up like this sometimes, and we always
will, where somebody like Russell just he's already got
code that's written. He's thinking in a particular way
about his use case and the way it solves his problems. Yep, and
he's like, I just seriously think this is the right way to
do things. And we may have a a honest to God, difference of
opinion within within the
Adam Curry: group. Well, pod ID is a fine example of that. He's
basically already coding that. Yeah,
Dave Jones: right. And so, and I think, you know, I'm not sure
exactly what he's doing, but I think we're, I think we can,
like, make that work in person. Yeah,
Adam Curry: he's, he's creating a new way of doing the person
tag, which is fine,
Dave Jones: you know, that's that sounds fine to me for IDs
or whatever, but, but it got me thinking about, what do we do in
those circumstances? Because, you know, I'm never, I don't
like to, I don't like any I don't like any project to be
like, there's one person who gets to win that doesn't feel
communal to me. No, but at the same time, there's there needs
to. We are making sort of a, we are making a reference. Is this
Adam Curry: your? Is this your dei pitch that you're about to
do? Yes,
Dave Jones: yeah, yeah. So we have quotas, so the so I'm
trying to, I'm trying to find a way to marry those things
together. I specifically did not use the word standard because I
don't think that the namespace is a standard. I think it's a
reference. It's a reference to say, if you want to put this
type of information in your feed, here's the way to do it.
And when you think about it as that, then you can say, Well,
okay, a standard means that that I'm gonna I'm gonna have to do
it this way, or else nobody's gonna be able to look and see my
stuff right? A reference is more like, here's the way you can do
it, and this will make sense if other people write their stuff
Adam Curry: to do. Read it yet, to decode it, right?
Dave Jones: If we're all looking at the same as long as we're all
looking at the same reference implementation, then we'll all
be able to read the same stuff. So this got me thinking about
sort of an, like, a quote, unquote appendix. So, you know,
we have things like, we will have things like the images tag
and funding tag and all the and blah, blah, blah. But if we're
we could also have like an, sort of an, I don't know if appendix
is the right thing to call it, but some other section of the
document that says, Hey, these are not things that have been
formally adopted into the namespace XML and s document,
but these are other tags that are in the wild that use the
podcast namespace. So they here are some. Here are some other
examples of tags that we have seen that we know are in use,
that we want you to know that you may encounter. So in that,
in that respect, you could have some, some and the reason I
think this is important, you could have some player, excuse
me, some feed producers that use a tag, and we know this is
already the case in slot, you know, they use a tag in slightly
the wrong way, and that could be documented so that we just are
all aware that this is the case. It could be that. Look, you may,
you may see this tag, this thing called a banner tag. We know
that this thing is in use because it meets a particular
need. When you see it, here's what to do with it, even though
the reference is not saying we would, you know, we think that
the way to do a banner is this way. It's really, I guess what
I'm saying is it's a way for the reference that is the namespace,
to stay a little less opinionated. And I know that's
going to drive people nuts, because people love to nerd.
Nerds love to be super opinionated about stuff, but I
don't know if you think about it, I don't know that that's
ever been the way that we've approached this. And I feel like
this is a way that where people could satisfy their own needs
and also have
Adam Curry: a place where that right and then say, Okay, this
is, this is what I'm doing. Here's how you read it. This is
how this is how it's this is how it's happening.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so think about, think about it this way.
It's on. It's not that much different than what already
happens in the world of namespaces. There's a Media
namespace, there's an iTunes namespace, there's a podcast
namespace, there's a Dublin Core namespace, there's all these
namespaces, and some of them have over overlapping
functionality. The media the Media namespace has a thumbnail
tag, the iTunes namespace has an image tag. Podcast, Sethi
Adam Curry: and Daniel J Lewis are going to create millions of
references. I
Dave Jones: feel like we just open the open the barn door and
let Sam run out with you know, on a stallion, he's going to go
nuts now, but it you we already have these different namespaces
that have sometimes overlapping tag functionality, and what we
have is a reference for all of them that says, Okay, if you see
this thing, here's how you handle it. If you see this other
thing, here's how you handle it. If you see this other if you see
media thumbnail, here's what you do with do these things
Adam Curry: eventually migrate into the namespace. If there's
broad adoption,
Dave Jones: I don't think they have to. I mean, they're
already, once we do they're already essentially, if we do it
this way, they're essentially there already, you because that
that's what this is, sort of a formalizing of community. Okay,
here's a perfect example, Stephen Bell. Stephen Bell added
in an attribute to the live item tag that was not, that was not
supposed to be there, right? That's the the web socket, the
chat URL. Oh, right, yes, yes, yes, for live, for IRC, that
was, that was an attribute he purely made up and just stuck it
in there himself. It was never in the standard. It was never in
the, excuse me, the namespace. But everybody saw it, and
everybody knew how to handle it, and so pod verse started using
it too, and that's what, that's what I'm saying those. Kinds of
things. When we see them happen, they could be documented in a
separate part of the namespace that says, here's some things
that you may see that will fall under the podcast name, that
will be claiming to be a part of the podcast namespace, even
though they've never gone through the formalization
process. And I think that that's fine.
Adam Curry: I'm good with it. If you're good with it, I'm
Dave Jones: good with it, as long as we document it, yeah.
Then the reference stays what it is a reference.
Adam Curry: It's about to get real fun everybody.
Dave Jones: I don't think it will. I
Adam Curry: really don't see it's gonna be fun. Because
people see you kind of as the as the guy who's like, oh, well,
we're gonna put this in the namespace or not. You watch.
It's gonna be interesting,
Dave Jones: you know? And that's the thing that I'm trying to
tame a little bit. I don't, I don't necessarily want to be the
guy.
Adam Curry: I understand. You're good. We like you as dictator.
You're good people like dictators, don't you know that?
Dave Jones: Oh, yes, I've heard this. But I think, I think that
this was, this is a and I'm not simply trying to be to find
compromise. I just think, I think it's a good idea. I think
it's already happening, and I think this is a way to
acknowledge that it's happening, and in a way that doesn't make
anybody lose their mind, yeah, and get mad at each other and
stuff. Well,
Adam Curry: this is the perfect moment to play some music. I
don't know why, but it just feels, it feels like the perfect
moment so we can all just reflect on that. Tony Salamone
released some fresh music into the value verse, and it's kind
of one of those Friday jams, you know, like, let's shred a little
bit already. This is unleash on podcasting 2.0 remember to
boost.
Unknown: I guess this is goodbye.
We know it's been a long time coming, but now we gotta fight.
Yes, we've been keeping our demons hit us. There's fire in
your words, and I know it's gotta hurt buttons in your
mouth, and if You want to, you can let it out. Something's
changing.
Boost we victims to our face?
Am I guilty or just the first to walk away? But now you're
talking down to me, and it makes me kind of glad I didn't say
Show me your words that
It show me your words.
I show my got a hold on for me, thank.
Adam Curry: Unleash, oh yes, your weekend has officially
started.
Dave Jones: That's some good riffs. Yeah, as
Adam Curry: a, as the as a C loss on Linux, boosted, wow. Ai,
music has gotten really good. He says that's not a, of course,
not, of course not as good as great risk. That's
Dave Jones: good stuff. Yeah, yeah. Miss booster, Grand Ball.
Adam Curry: Well, it's coming back, baby, Wednesday.
Wednesday, taking
Dave Jones: it out of the freezer.
Adam Curry: Okay, yes, yes, we're going to thaw it out.
Let's thank some people, as we're still in the summer.
Summer hours here, the summer hours over, Dave's got to get
back to work. Randall black, 1000 SATs for unleash, right
there. Heard on podcasting, 2.0 hashtag V for v is the only way
that's right. I just read C loss on Linux with his 2000 SATs. We
have 1776 from salty crayon howdy boardroom. Another big
shout out to Eric PP. He was helping myself sir libre and
Kevin bay from SATs and sounds, with some minor issues of Alby
hub talking to helipad in regards to how boostograms show
up when they are funky percentages, or however the
splits read from the different V for V apps running with boost
sauce. All good. That's interesting because I just got
one Satoshi from IPFS podcasting, and it says it was a
200% split. So maybe that's the issue they're talking about.
Dave Jones: You get, you're getting splits over 100%
amazing. It's
Adam Curry: amazing. 500 from Randall black. What time will
boost the ground ball? Live be starting. I'm thinking 3pm on
Wednesday. I think that's a free slot on the stream, if not, but
it'll be on both streams. I'll have the my own stream and the
no agenda stream. See lost in Linux again, 6969 bro, if you
don't have 4 million YouTube subs, are you even a real
podcaster? No 187 million tick tock views. Actual failure,
dude. Yeah, exactly. Uh, hey, citizen, 6969 how many stats to
unlock? The IRC premium skins and chat icons? That's funny.
Silas, again, 1000 SATs, I also draw on white boards. Okay?
Salty crayon, 333, his favorite one is, it's harp. Yes, that's
right, that's that was from our discussion about hurricane
Helene, hi from the blueberry staff retreat in Florida. Says
Mike Dell 1701, with his his Star Trek. Boost. Go podcasting.
Booberry, 3333 ah, a promo. Catch, legendary concert and
Podcast Producer, Chad F on bowls with buds tonight, found
in the bowl after bowl feed or bowl after bowl.com. 7pm
Central, right on. Chad, advertising, that's right.
Boost, for taisman 1000 from Chad F and let's see. Then we
had it was all test stuff that came in early. I do a pre stream
about 10 after 12 central time to get everything, everybody
into the mood, make sure all systems are working. And I hit
the delimiter. So what you got on your list?
Dave Jones: Dave, just following up on that on air stuff with
Eric PP, yes, Eric PP is always jumping in to fix, to help fix
stuff. I also also want to say that David marzol and Steven
crater constantly jump in to fix, to fix all kinds of they do
all kinds of pull requests for the web, for the website, oh,
cool, and stuff like that. And it's very, very helpful. And
fixing, fixing bad feeds in the index and stuff. I just wanted
to say, much appreciated. Yeah, we got some. We got got a
PayPal. We got one PayPal. Oh no, you know who it is. Yes, I
give up. Oscar Mary, $200.20
Adam Curry: inch Blaze only Impala. Thank you very much,
Oscar. Mary, appreciate that keeping the index running.
Brother, thank you.
Dave Jones: We got some booster. Grams, we got odd. Odyssey West,
okay. Odyssey Westra dash, nostr. Odyssey, Westra, Nostra,
okay.
Adam Curry: Zapping, five zapping, 5000 says, Okay, I
don't know. I don't know. Don't know how it works.
Dave Jones: 5000 stats through fountain. He says, Great show
you guys have, I love to hear about the behind the scenes work
when it comes to podcasting. 2.0 with regards, with regards to
with auto generating voices for podcasting. This is happening
with YouTube shorts and a lot of summary type videos for movies
and show. Those, I wouldn't be surprised. The same thing is
happening in podcasting. You're all right, though, for me, I do
prefer the personal touch with podcasts, so hopefully it will,
it won't be as big of an issue as it is on video sharing sites.
Gene Everett 3333 through fountain, he said for the
episode, grep pipe, he says.
Adam Curry: He says, boost boost boost, yeah, boost boost boost
boost boost boost boost. There it is.
Dave Jones: Cole McCormick, 2222 through fountain. He says, I saw
that Forbes article and thought it was great, except for Frank,
the author, calling V for V tipping. Yes,
Adam Curry: I know it hurt me too, but I looked at it when you
know, you know, it's better than nothing.
Dave Jones: I also want to share with the boardroom that I'm
producing videos for pod home on YouTube and other socials. Look
for the podcast. Normie, YouTube channel. Videos will be up
weekly. Go podcasting.
Adam Curry: Oh, podcast. Normie. Go podcasting. You. Casting.
Dave Jones: Gene bean, 2222 through fountain. He says the
person href is not suitable as an identifier because sometimes
the link goes to a page, like the staff page of a church,
instead of a page for the single person. This means all staff
members get the same URL. Good point. Now it's a good point.
And this also is,
Adam Curry: is a that's publisher error in my in my
book. Well,
Dave Jones: I was go, I was going there. But, you know, this
is sort of like one of those things where people are going to
do stuff the wrong way.
Adam Curry: Yes, it happens in all tags, every single tag
Dave Jones: and and I can see what he's trying to say is stay
as far away from from allowing people to do things the wrong
way as you can. So like that, I think, and I think I understand
the spirit of what he's saying, and I think that's a good point,
that if you, if you have an open href, then you're making it
pretty easy to just not do the right thing, right because I
keep going back to Tom Rossi's thing that he said, If you stick
an empty text box on a page, somebody's going to stick
something in. Something in it, yeah, for sure, what it is you
don't know. You never know. You never know. That's true. Okay,
the message heard Geneva, okay. 5000 sets from G anonymous
through fountain, he says, Party on Wayne. Party on Garth. Grep,
cut. F3, dash six. Dash D, comma, boom, pipe, grab the
pipe, sort and your data analyst. Golf, Victor, Lima,
Adam Curry: I'm in total agreement.
Dave Jones: I'm gonna have to run that command through,
Adam Curry: right? Don't do it as root, whatever you do. No,
Dave Jones: I'm all fair, okay. Delimiter, commentary. Blogger,
25,000 SATs Duke fountain, he says, howdy. Fellow microphone
connoisseurs, Adam and Dave, I'd like to invite your audience to
subscribe to a podcast called bandrew says, podcast available
at www dot geeks rising.com/bandru, says, both in
audio and video and on YouTube, Andrew is talking there about
vital content content creator topics including polishing
microphone sound quality to achieve total microphone bliss
is Separate from his super popular, huge microphone review
YouTube channel, podcastage, yo. CSB, oh,
Adam Curry: I'll have to check out his his content creator
topics, podcast on YouTube. I
Dave Jones: thought he was about to say that he's covering topics
such as polishing your microphone.
Adam Curry: That actually helps polishing I always polish my mic
before I start. I'm a big, good proponent of polishing the mic.
Dave Jones: Yeah, just the top, just just the
Adam Curry: top, just the tip.
Dave Jones: And what do we got? We got some monthly so we've got
Cameron rose, $25 Pedro gun, Calvin's $5 Kevin Bay, five
bucks. Chad Farrow, Chad F, 22 $20.22 Brendan from pod page, we
got to get Brendan on the show, right? Oh,
Adam Curry: definitely, definitely, definitely, we have
Daniel. Daniel J, next week I see
Dave Jones: Yeah. DJ L, coming live on the show. Now, did
Adam Curry: he? Did he just badger you long enough until you
gave in. You're like, okay, no,
Dave Jones: no, he did not. I reached out of my own volition.
There was no pressure. I'm
Adam Curry: just kidding. Just kidding. Daniel J, just kidding.
Dave Jones: I was I was doing, I was driving to work, and I
thought, and I had an epiphany,
Adam Curry: need Daniel. Need more. Daniel J, Lewis, yeah,
need
Dave Jones: more. DJ L, and then I. Reached out, and he was like,
Yep, let's do it. Excellent. Excellent. Mark Graham, $1 New
Media $1 Randall black $5 and Joseph Morocco, $5 that's our
group.
Adam Curry: Thank you very much, everybody for your boost, for
your PayPals. We are a value for value operation here as who said
that? Someone said it here, well, I'm looking for it. It was
a Pfeiffer said you can tip through value for value. But not
all value for value is tipping various dudes if you want to
find out more value for value. Number four, value, dot info.
And thanks for keeping everything running your your
support is keeping the index running everything that goes
along with it. We're able to open up big, big boy channels to
people when they need them. So we're happy to help. We're here
today. It's, it's so odd, man, we had a follow up call with did
we talk about that? Was it this week? When we do have the, we
have that follow up call this? No, I I talked to, I talked to
KJ, I did a follow up with him. And, and it's so hard for these
commercial companies when we say, you know, we don't really
need any money. You know, we don't want a business
relationship with you, but if you're taxing our machines,
we'll probably say, hey, you know, can you, can you flip some
money our way so we can put another machine in that they
find it so it's so hard for them to understand. I
Dave Jones: hate contracts. I never want to sign one. I just
can we just always do handshakes. I'm with you. I'm
with you. Nods, nods and winks and handshakes. That's fine with
me.
Adam Curry: Let me nod and wink and shake your hand right now.
Dave Jones, I got you out four minutes early. How beautiful is
that? Oh,
Dave Jones: that's beautiful. All right, boardroom.
Adam Curry: Thank you very much for being here, brother, Dave,
have yourself a great weekend. You too, man, and we will be
back next week, same time, same bat channel, podcasting 2.0
where we discuss the future of podcasting. Be here. You know
you want it. You
Unknown: podcasts are cool. You have been listening to
podcasting 2.0 visit podcast index.org for more information.
I like to boost my balls podcasting. You.