Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for October, 25 2024 episode 198,
domain experts. Hey everybody. We're back. It feels like it's
been a week or two. It is time for podcasting 2.0 the official
board meeting of all things podcasting, everything is going
on at podcast index on social and boy, was there a lot going
on. We got all kinds of cool things to discuss. We are, of
course, the only boardroom that triggers your podcast app split
alert. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill
Country and in Alabama, the man who was always compliant with
FinCEN regulations. Say hello to my friend on the other end, Mr.
Dave Jones,
Dave Jones: let's see Chad F says, rip, rip. Boost bot. What
happened to the boost
Adam Curry: bot? You know, I don't know. The boost bot ran
out of channel liquidity, and I opened a new channel three weeks
ago, and then somehow, just as gone, went offline.
Dave Jones: I don't know who's in charge. Who's the who's the
VP in charge of who's the
Adam Curry: Yes, exactly. Can we have, can we have some
accountability please here? Who's in charge of the boost
box? It's been down. I mean, I think it was up for that week
when I opened up the channel. I just don't know who's in charge
of it. Cotton Gin is reaching out to reaching out. C dubs
Unknown: reaching out. It's probably,
Adam Curry: you know, a Raspberry Pi somewhere sitting
in a corner, and, you know, something went wrong and
somebody didn't notice. I mean, that's usually how those things
go.
Dave Jones: Got a bad SD card?
Adam Curry: Oh, man, I, I gave up on the Raspberry Pi. I really
had to give up on it. I mean, that was my first lightning
node, which is now four years ago, more than four years ago,
and a certain point, it's just like, ah, there was always
something going on with it.
Dave Jones: From day one, I never went the Raspberry Pi rat,
I always had a real look, a real box, like a small form factor
box. I
Adam Curry: know you've got a real box, baby.
Dave Jones: It did not save me from running out of disc space,
but it did save me from other things.
Adam Curry: Well, then I got the the Bitcoin machines, which is
basically a Raspberry Pi in an enclosure, but it's factory
built, and, and and then, so you have to add a an external SSD
drive to it with a USB. And that's like, the number one
thing that Raspberry Pi says won't work. It's like, don't be
adding external SSDs because the power supply can't handle it,
and there's all these issues. And I just tried that. Then I
ordered another one, and they took my bitcoin money and never
sent it to me. And then, okay, I give up on these guys. And then
I went, start nine, and start nine. I think I've had to reboot
it because of an issue once in over a year, and I don't and it
was like maybe Tor somehow it lost the Tor circuit, but it was
still receiving streaming SATs and everything. I just couldn't
get to it. So it could have been anything else. That thing is
just rock solid. I love it.
Dave Jones: The the start nine is that you have, is that on
their own hardware. Yeah, on your own? No, no,
Adam Curry: they, they sent me one. Okay, yeah. And, you
Dave Jones: know, I had a whole fancy box, or whatever. That was
just a
Adam Curry: box, you know, but I had a whole chat with the CEO,
and, you know, that's how we got helipad and all these other
things starting to run on it, and, and the IPFS podcasting. So
it's all, it's all part of the you know, so we're arm's length,
arm's length, arm's length, man, I I have to share this email
that came in
Dave Jones: the look at podcast index. Email, no,
Adam Curry: it actually came out. Came into Adam at Curry
com, okay, and and I read it, and I and I had to immediately
forward it to Dvorak, who then called the guy and got the
details. Listen to this. Hey, Adam and John, your latest
episode. Oxymoronic. Was a fascinating dive into media
deconstruction. The mention of the 1699 club stood out as a
clever Community Building Initiative. And I couldn't help
but think of how Ashley Matheson, with her 8 million
fans, would bring a fresh perspective to the conversation.
Dave Jones: Oh, this is AI, yes,
Adam Curry: of course it is. So I see this because obviously
that you got the ox, first of all, you got Adam and John
somehow from scraping something. Then you got, yeah, transcript,
oxymoronic from an episode title, but then the mention of
the 1699 Club, which is in the credits. If someone donates the
show number, then you then you're in the 1699 club. So the
AI interpreted that as a club. Ever Community Building
Initiative,
Dave Jones: not wrong. And
Adam Curry: so now, of course, we don't have guests on the
show. Never had. So okay, so I send this to John, and now I'm
like, listen, look at this. Ai crap. So Dvorak reaches out to
him, and it turns out this guy uses something called pod pitch.
Pod pitch.com, pitch. Listen to this pitch podcast easier and
faster than ever before. Stop wasting time looking for
relevant and active podcasts. Pod pitch is the first and only
PR platform that actually removes work from your podcast
pitching, and it's all done with AI. It's amazing.
Dave Jones: Save 13 hours per week and get better results.
Adam Curry: Get your team on 3.84719193 3,000,847. 193
podcasts. How many do we have? This is actually 4.2 Hmm. So
they, they claim that they have, what is it? Let me see what it
is. How
Dave Jones: are you going to get yourself on 3.9 million podcasts
this? This
Adam Curry: is that's obviously bullcrap. There's just,
Dave Jones: there's only, there's only 440,000 that have
published an episode in the last three months.
Adam Curry: We have every podcast host name and verified
email address that's over 3.8 million email addresses. Boy,
I'm glad we took it out of the RSS feeds
Dave Jones: that Okay, wait, this is boy, this is such a bull
crap right off. This is so untrue. 3.8 million verified,
Adam Curry: verified, verified, verified, that's right, that's
that's
Dave Jones: not even, that's not even possible. One point over 2
million of those are going to be anchor, and they don't have an
email. They have an email, but it's a it's an anchor at
something. It's like it's an obscured email address that most
of the time doesn't even work like that this, this is a
complete lie to begin with, because it's not. There's no way
they verified that many people listen
Adam Curry: to all this stuff they've got. We count each and
every episode that podcasts publish in real time, plus the
length and how frequently they publish new ones. We count the
length of every episode and how frequently, oh, that's the same
thing. We have real time or close approximated listener
count data for each podcast in the database.
Dave Jones: Listener count. This is not what they're claim. What
they're claiming is not possible.
Adam Curry: Yeah, well, they're using it. They got through to
me. They got my attention.
Dave Jones: I wonder. Okay, here's my best guess at what's
happening here. Yeah, there I, I bet you. And I know they're not
using us, no, but they don't think they can be because we're
I would have seen them first of all, but I think my guess is
they're using pod chaser. That
Adam Curry: was my listen to this. Listener demographics, the
pod pitch, AI engine. AI engine access vast listener data, such
as gender, age, location, consumer type, consumer type.
What kind of consumer type are you? Dave Jones,
Dave Jones: the one, the one who eats crappy milk
Adam Curry: and more. Our in house, AI engine generates a
score to match you to every podcast in our database based on
your experience and personal goals. Wow.
Dave Jones: The reason I say A, the reason I say pod chaser, is
because there's only, there's really only. There's only three
directories that this, that they could possibly get stuff like
this from now. They can't get, okay, yeah, they can't get email
addresses from us, but they could. They could take our dump
and then go and fetch the feeds and parse the XML themselves and
grab, grab all the email addresses to fill in that hole.
And that's what we tell people to do. We're like, we're not
going to give it to you. You got to go do the work yourself. And
they don't, sorry, and but there's only two other places I
could think of that this stuff would that this data would come
from. One would be listen notes, yeah, and the other would be pod
chaser. But I don't, but listen notes doesn't, to my knowledge,
give out like any sort of demographic data that sounds
more pod chasery to me. Well, the
Adam Curry: bottom line is, it's it doesn't work because they
pitch an interview to a podcast that has never had an. View in
its existence. So the AI is broken no matter what, no matter
what.
Dave Jones: If you're building a system like that, it seems to me
that the first thing that you would do is build into the model
to try to determine from the language of the podcast if they
actually have guests or not first, I'm just throwing that
out there, yeah. How
Adam Curry: does pod pitch work? We meticulously created the
world's largest database of podcasts. Okay? Pitching
utilizing, oh, here it is, AI driven messaging, yeah. So they
go in, they look at the show notes, and then that's the
drivel that came out as AI drivel messaging not driven AI
drivel. Messaging is this really AI driven messaging? You send
tailored pitches via email. Every email is 100% unique, yet
uniquely awful. Oh, man, all right. Well, it says
Dave Jones: they have, we have the title and description of
every active podcast as entered by the host on Apple podcasts
and Spotify, as entered by the host on Apple podcasts and
Spotify, right? So that's just your description. That's just
your description. But it's funny though, that that they say Apple
podcasts and Spotify,
Adam Curry: because you enter your description there, but
that's
Dave Jones: already in the feed. Why would they what? Why would
they say, I don't know Apple podcasts and spot I don't know
Adam Curry: if we should talk about this too long. I'm getting
frustrated. These guys suck
Dave Jones: this. It's just, well, it's, at the very least we
can say they're they're just spamming pod. Well, they're
spamming the podcast. And
Adam Curry: that's okay. I thought it was just funny. It's
like, Come on, man. He's like, you've never listened to the
show. It's obvious. And then this AI sent this flowery
language. So Devorah calls the guy, and the guy says, You are
the first people who picked up on that, it's aI really, yeah,
Dave Jones: that was obvious to me within the first sentence,
Yeah,
Adam Curry: isn't that cool?
Dave Jones: This is AI slot. This way. This is
Adam Curry: it. This is the AI slot. That's right, that's
right. Oh
Dave Jones: yeah, I was actually, I was reading Spotify.
Let me see,
Adam Curry: let me kick. By the way, the guy's name
Dave Jones: is the guy who's
Adam Curry: Yeah, who sent it is Brian gross, okay, okay, Brian
gross, from gross media,
Dave Jones: big se. I was reading this, this document on
that, I think James, I'm pretty sure James linked to this about
engineer is from Spotify engineering, from their R D
thing. It says the title of this. Let me grab the URL so I
can post it over there. The title is how we generated
millions of content, annotations,
Unknown: annotations, annotations.
Dave Jones: Let me post that over there into the boardroom.
Yeah. So this, they don't say, they don't say exactly what this
is, but this is sort of, this is how they tag suspect content,
you know, questionable content and and it goes through and kind
of shows their process of how they built their their system,
which was interesting to me, because This is what Todd talks
about a lot. Where they, they have so many, they just are
pumping out takedown notices all the time,
Adam Curry: yes, well, not just, yeah. Well, they take it down,
and then they notify the host they've taken it down, right? Is
the way I understand it, yeah.
Dave Jones: And so this is, this is the this was interesting to
me, because I'm like, Okay, well, let's see how, what have
they built to make that happen? And they go, they go through
here, and it's, it's a machine learning model. It's interesting
to me that they do not mention, they only mention AI once in
here, like generative AI. They're, they're very focused on
a traditional machine learning approach. And again, you know,
I'll again say that that's notable, because I feel like
Spotify is a very forward looking sort of hype engine
company. And if they're not really talking about generative
AI that much, then that kind of tells you where we're at, you
know, and they're, they're saying, you know, they're not
using that terminology or the they're just using traditional
machine learning, which I mean machine learning is, it is a
real thing. It makes, it makes sense. Been around for a long
time. Yeah, sure. You just, but you know, you're. Training a
model, and then you're just running it through, and you're
all in, sort of implicit in this, in machine learning, is
that you're it embraces the fact that you know that it's not
going to be 100% accurate. And that's that's just built into
machine learning itself. So they go a couple of things that stood
out to me is they said we use, we also use machine learning to
analyze podcast, audio, video and metadata to identify
platform policy violations. So that's what this is. This is
how. Now I don't know how, if they've been using this for a
long time, or if, or if this is fairly recent, but this is how
they ident, identify things to flag for content, for their
platform policy violations. And so then what they're what
they're saying is they go through it says we wanted to
improve the data collection process to be more efficient and
connected, and to include the right context for engineers and
domain experts to operate more effectively.
Adam Curry: Well, to me, it sounds like this is how they
check pod, because I know a lot of people are getting takedown
notices or episodes being removed for licensed music,
which could even be, you know, like a jingle or something, or
even something you've licensed honestly. I mean, I know tons of
churches who pay for their worship music licenses. They get
taken off of Facebook all the time, all the time, then they
have to contest that. Oh, we're sorry, and they get put back on
Dave Jones: this. This seems like says we we increase the
corpus of annotations. I think what do they mean by annotations
is like tagging, tagging, cut certain content on their system,
about what they think a violation was. And I'm not sure
that this shows up publicly. I think it's probably an internal
thing. So like, it would be sort of like a community notes in
Twitter, but internal for their own people to see. It says we
increased the corpus of annotations about 10 times, and
did so with three times the improvement in annotator
productivity. Oh,
Adam Curry: annotator productivity. Nice.
Dave Jones: We established large, yeah, we established a
large scale expert is, this is what kind of got me. We
established large scale expert human workforces, now in several
domains. So what, immediately, when I, when I hear, we
establish large scale expert human workforces. Oh, I know
Adam Curry: what that means. It's AI, 1000 Indians, yeah,
anonymous Indian AI, anonymous Indians, right?
Dave Jones: It's, it's the Amazon 1000 Indians approach,
yes, yeah. In several we established large scale expert
human workforces in several domains to address our growing
use cases with multiple levels of experts. They use the word
expert a lot, including the following, core annotator
workforces. These workforces are domain experts who provide first
pass review of all annotation cases. Quality analysts. Quality
analysts are top level domain experts who act as the
escalation. Oh, wait, this is
Adam Curry: Spotify. Yes, this is Spotify, who was actually
making a profit after they filed, fired all of the podcast
people now that now they're hiring Indians, anonymous
Indians at 15 bucks an hour, if that may be eight, it's
Dave Jones: not anonymous Indians. These are domain,
expert level domain, yes,
Adam Curry: core top level domain, like.fm or which top
level domain are the ends?
Dave Jones: Yeah, dot link, who act as the escalation point for
all ambiguous or complex cases identified by the core annotator
workforce. So this is like level two, and then you have project
managers. This includes individuals who connect
engineering and product teams to the workforce, establishing and
maintaining training materials and organize feedback on data
collection strategies. Oh, my, this, this is, it's interesting
to see a glimpse into how their internal process looks, where it
looks like what's happening is they've created this ML model
that scrapes all of their data internally, tags it with an
annotation, and then delivers it to the to the Indian workforce,
who then, who then goes through and just, I imagine, it's
probably just like a like an assembly line. They're just
like, review, review, review, swipe left, slide, swipe right.
Oh,
Adam Curry: yeah, yeah, dog, cat,
Dave Jones: yeah, exactly, yeah. Like, what was that? Uh, what
was the thing that? Uh, Paul E toy. That's
Adam Curry: exactly what it was. Yeah, he was, he was training,
stock works. Was training. Uh. AI image recognition. So the
dog, dog car for cameras, like ring cameras, yeah,
Dave Jones: except every, like, maybe every 200 uh, swipes, you
get a mate, you get a, I'm not sure, maybe, and you tap that
you know, you swipe up, or something that you know this,
this feels like exactly what what this is, but that that's
that makes sense, because I bet you, the hit rate on this thing
is just all over the map. They're probably taking stuff
down all the time. That is just like, not that's just false
positives, false false hits, because it's all there's so much
automation. Here Did you
Adam Curry: see Satya Nadella of Microsoft with his his
presentation of their AI stuff? No, oh, man, this was my
favorite. My favorite quote from the entire presentation. We're
Unknown: using AI to build AI to build better AI. There
Adam Curry: you go. There you go. And so, not to be outdone by
Google's notebook, LM, podcast, oh, we can do that now with with
Microsoft, you can do you can create podcasts. It's really
fantastic. Notebook. Lm, come on. We're Microsoft, and they,
and they literally created the Clippy of AI generated podcast.
Listen to this. Welcome
Unknown: back. Listeners. This is Dan, and today we're diving
into a topic that's especially relevant for those of you with
busy schedules, embracing AI in content consumption,
Adam Curry: content this is so unnatural. This we'll be
discussing how AI tools
Unknown: are helping us consume diverse content more
efficiently, and how they're making a big difference in our
personal and professional growth. Anna, have you ever
found yourself struggling to keep up with all the content you
want to consume because of your busy schedule?
Absolutely. Dan, finding the time to consume all the content
Dave Jones: Absolutely. Dan, yes,
Unknown: it gets better content we're interested in can be a
real struggle, especially when juggling a busy schedule. That's
why I'm so excited about the ways.
Adam Curry: Doesn't she sound excited? I'm so excited. That's
Unknown: why I'm so excited about the ways AI is helping us
adapt content to our needs. For instance, AI tools like text to
podcast converters are game changers. They're
Adam Curry: game changers. Oh, god,
Unknown: it's definitely changing the game.
Adam Curry: It is changing the game.
Unknown: They allow us to transform articles and other
text into audio formats we can listen to while multitasking,
like during a commute or while doing chores.
Adam Curry: I mean, don't I want to shoot myself after listening
to 30 seconds of this podcast? This horrible what
Dave Jones: I hate it. I hate this new thing of trying to make
uh, ai ai personalities sound like they're they're real
people. Yes, it's not just stop, stop, stop, like, yeah, I was
thinking this morning. It's like, No, you weren't. You're
not real.
Unknown: Oh, man,
Dave Jones: this is acting. This is automated acting. Is what?
This is
Adam Curry: this? Uh, yeah, I'm all for it.
Dave Jones: I'm reading this book called, listen liberal.
Unknown: Oh boy.
Dave Jones: It's written by this guy named Thomas Frank. He wrote
he's pretty
Adam Curry: famous. Sounds familiar? Thomas Frank,
Dave Jones: yeah, he's, he's written a few very, you know,
kind of bestseller books. He's, he's, he's sort of a, he's very
traditional left, you know, left wing political science, common,
I guess you call him a commentator. I think he's like
a, maybe a history professor somewhere. I don't remember
exactly, but really famous book called, What's the Matter with
Kansas? Okay, and, and then I think this was his follow up
book to that. It's called, listen, liberal. And then
there's a, I think he's, he wrote one in, like, 2020, oh,
yes, what it's called, the people know. The people come and
know anyway, it's, he's, he's a, he's a very old, you know, like
old school, old school, traditional FDR style, Democrat,
maybe is what you want to call him. But it's interesting
though, reading this book, it's very good. I don't know how I
mean, it would probably be boring to people outside the US,
but from a from a US sort of political history standpoint,
it's very good. It's like, how did we get where we are today,
with where, sort of how the where the political parties are
at and. But he's FIFA. He focuses specifically on the
Democrat Party, because that's his, that's his, that's his
party, right? And so. But he focuses a lot on the rise of
what he called he's got a lot of good phrases to describe these
things. Like he is the rise of the expert class, yeah, and sort
of a, you know, it's what he's describing, is technocracy, but
he's got a lot of good descriptions for it. But this,
this transition from where you had Harry Truman, who was
basically a shoe store, you know, shoes, shoe salesman, as
the President, to now its president. You know, it's, it's
the executive branch. Is this is always being run by the, quote,
smartest people in the room, the heart, you know, like 25% of
Obama's cabinet graduated from Harvard. It's, he calls them the
wet, the well graduated. And in references, a lot of old
articles and stuff that I did, I just missed at the time. This
is, you know, back in the early 90s, during the presidential,
Presidency of Clinton and that kind of thing. And it's a great,
it's a good book. But what it's he kind of talks about this idea
that the closer, the closer people get to consensus. So
there's this idea on, you know, with back in way he talks about
the Democratic Leadership Council, the DLC, which Clinton
was the head of, and it was this organization that was going to
sort of move the Democrat Party Beyond The Beyond the days of
FDR, and then you deal into this new era of the, you know, the
knowledge worker and the young professional, the professional
class. And so he talks about this, what drives that class of
person so much is this idea of consensus, like, sort of like a
thinking block type thinking, like, I think, like everybody
else does, of my class, and then so he's, like, the closer you
get to consensus, this, this sort of, like II, like the
center, the differentiators between you and everybody else.
Don't really, they're not really becoming about policy positions.
They become more about the incidentals, like, who you are,
like, where did you go to school, who you know, what's
your pedigree?
Adam Curry: These called Identity Politics. No, yeah, it
becomes
Dave Jones: more about identity then, then about because you're
already so close. You know you're, you're, you're no longer
really, are you? I
Adam Curry: go back to this. You're doing the weave. You're
doing the weave.
Dave Jones: I go back to and for some reason, during during the
pandemic, I I got on. I think I Okay. I watched that Oliver
Stone series about American history, yeah, which I thought
was very good. And I ended up watching the entire Bush Gore
debate from, like, from 2000 Wow, in I think Jim Lehrer was
the
Adam Curry: JIM LEHRER, yeah, from the McNeil Lehrer report,
sure. I
Dave Jones: think he was the moderator. And what I took away
from that, from that debate, was they almost were the same
person. Every they were. They spent so much time saying, Well,
you know, I agree with with my phone, with my and I would do so
and so. And then Al Gore say, Well, you know, I agree with
that, but you know, I would tweak it in this way. They
agreed with each other like 90% of the time. And so when you're
at that point where everything is sort of like you're so close
together already giving people a you have to, if you want people
to go with you, versus versus the other side. You have to look
for other reasons to give to to, you know, other reasons because
the policy reasons are they're just not distinct enough. So
that's, this is what. This is why. I think that was a long
worried. Here's
Adam Curry: the weave. He's bringing it back. He's bringing
it back. He's coming into home plate, everybody.
Dave Jones: This is why, I think that story that that articles
like this in the public about what Spotify is doing with their
content annotations. I think this is why they use the term
experts so much. Oh, okay, everybody wants. Because what
you have to do is you have to sell it, not based on the the
the quality of the product like, but
Adam Curry: based the power these, the the pedigree of the
people doing it. Yes, yeah, I got you. Yeah,
Dave Jones: yes, because the difference between an ML model
and a thou in 1000 Indians might be 2% so what you have to do is
you have to just, you have to establish that, no, no, no,
these are domain experts, yeah, but these are the smartest
people in
Adam Curry: the room. We're domain experts. To write that
down. That was a long
Dave Jones: that was a long winded way of saying just that
book's been on my mind a lot, and so I saw this. I saw the
similarity. Well, I,
Adam Curry: as you know, I've changed my tune. I'm all for it.
I want all the social media to be flooded with the AI images.
Am AI text generation AI videos as much as possible. Make it
unattractive and unusable, and it will, the problem will solve
itself. And they're and they're handing out all of these. What
is that?
Dave Jones: That sounds big? That's a million
Adam Curry: Satoshis. Whoa from anonymous.
Dave Jones: How did Ooh and who's anonymous?
Adam Curry: Well, anonymous says, Well, I have an idea
today. True fans added an AI filter in your user setting. So
if host equals AI, we will disable the play button. If you
have chosen that in your user settings.
Dave Jones: True fan. So obviously, that was James that
sent that.
Adam Curry: Why would James send 1000 SATs? A million SATs? I'm
sorry, a million. Kidding. It can't be any British guy by any
stretch of the imagination. A million Satoshis. Wow. Thank
you, Sam. Thank you. Thank you anonymous. Oh, that's, I've
Dave Jones: got that on my notes to talk about, actually, no,
because they true. Fans also no longer needs an account. You
don't have to have an account just to
Adam Curry: Oh, you can just use it. Pop in and use it. Oh,
that's cool. That's cool, although you don't get all the
benefits of of having an account. I would presume, no,
but you can still use it. Yeah, you know, I was trying to add a
live radio stream to Sonos. These guys have ruined
everything. They upgraded their app and whatever. Maybe six,
eight months ago, you can't even add a live stream anymore. You
have to use a music service, and then you have to do it through
tune in then you have to do it on the tune in app, and then you
do it on the app, and it doesn't synchronize. I just want to add
some other stream that is not connected to some mainstream
system, that is registered in some other service. I just want
to add a URL, well, can't be done,
Dave Jones: or can you? But you can just, you, can you, like,
pipe a podcast app into it, right? Can't you do like, Apple
play or something, I mean, or, I'm sorry, uh, Bluetooth or
something,
Adam Curry: you know that even that I think has become
complicated. I just really, yeah, I just want to be able to
use the app and save this to my favorites, and so I can play it
at home. And it's like, Ah, so
Dave Jones: you're using the Sonos app to do, yeah, yeah.
What is this? I've never had Sonos. I've heard it's super I
mean, like for, for what it costs it it ought to be, because
I've heard it's not cheap. Oh no, the hardware and stuff.
Adam Curry: Oh and they and they totally. Oh, interesting. No.
Song is a Sonos controller for Linux platforms, so you can do
stuff with it. Interesting. They, they kind of break, they
basically downgraded all the old hardware, which I'd had for
eight years, and it just started not working right. And then they
said, Well, you know, you really need to. And then the Oh, yeah,
if Oh, you want to use Sonos, you have to, you know, here's
the new app. But you can use this deprecated app for your old
hardware. They really force everybody into the new hardware.
There was quite disgusting. And then, and then, if you
decommissioned it, it bricked the old speakers. You couldn't
even give them away to somebody. James did lots of reports on
that. It was really, it was a nasty company, because
Dave Jones: I thought, I thought once before about trying to get
into that ecosystem, but I've resisted, because it's so many
people have complained
Adam Curry: about, oh no, it's horrible. It's horrible. I mean,
I was in it, and then, you know, Tina really wanted it, and said,
okay, so she said we upgraded when we moved to the house,
like, okay, just simple, and it was much easier to set up
because it has, it creates its own network, and it's a pretty
simple system. But if you're not in the in the in the ecosystem
of the apps and the approved apps and all the stuff that they
want, yo search for a radio station, but have one that's not
in the listing, can I do use that? Please? No, no, no, no,
you can't do that. No, we'll have none of that. That just
horrible. And I tried to reset password and wouldn't recognize
it. And this, you know, just in the Windows firewalls, I hated
the link, almost as frustrating as the mega meta. I. Hell thread
about that Russell started about pay walls on podcast index, dot
social, my word, my word.
Dave Jones: I've got some notes about that. I don't buy by
personal policy. I don't I just try never to get involved in
those threads. I just, I just want to hear them. I just want
to see them play themselves out. Yeah,
Adam Curry: no, and you're good at that. I think I replied once
Dave Jones: because, I mean, because adding to it doesn't
really help, you know, and so in but I do have some thoughts. I
mean, do you have any thoughts you want
Adam Curry: to Oh, no, the only, the only thought, I mean, the
part that I was concerned with, got resolved pretty quickly,
because everybody said, no, no, this is not value for value.
And, okay, so what, you know? And then there's always, and I'm
used to the Oh, so it's busking, so it's tips, okay, I'm used to
all that. And then I saw plenty of people jump in and say, no,
no, you got this wrong. And and, as you know, sending links. But
I mean, I actually went to the GitHub, to the GitHub, and said,
Look, there's this. There's for what you want to do if you
really want to do that. Because I think what he was looking for
was a way to have, you know, the content that you pay for, and
you can, you know, there's different ways you can create a
pay wall. And, you know, and I kind of reject the notion that,
well, we have to keep up with Spotify. Just reject that notion
out of hand. I'm not interested in that, and, but I'm not even
going to post about that. But the idea of stream, of using
SATs, and, you know, the streaming payments, or booster
gram, there is a solution. It's called LSAT, and we looked at
that years ago, and it's a very elegant, very simple way for you
to not allow an HTTP request unless you've paid some
Satoshis. And it works really well. And I posted that on the
GitHub, and it was just ignored, to which I'm like, Okay, you're
really not even interested in solving this problem, at least
that's the way it came across to me, because I'm giving you a
technical solution that fits in perfectly. I think people were
just more interested in arguing for argument's sake. And I don't
know, it felt incredibly in product, non productive, and it
died. Of course it did, but it was just, it was, it was a head
scratcher. I didn't understand. You know, what are you trying to
do? You know, it's like, their solution, just do it. They felt
like, there you go. Like, trying to build consensus, where, in
our community, code counts, like, hey, implement it, build
it. Have to have both sides of the equation, a hosting company
and an app. And then, you know, it's then we we bang it around.
I mean, that's how we always do things, but this endless trying
to build consensus was irkso,
Dave Jones: did you hear Jane James and Sam's discussion last
week on on power?
Adam Curry: Yeah. Power podcast, weekly pod, news, weekly review.
Yes, I did. I did.
Dave Jones: I thought that was a good discussion. It because it
sort of, you know this podcast, discussions on podcasts are so
much better than discussions on message boards. Oh, no, kidding.
You can get some. You can get into the nuance faster, and you
can understand that. It's just so it's a better experience. So
I took a lot of value away from listening to them hash some
things out back and forth, you know. And Sam was saying, you
know, he's like, I think Sam's coming at it from the standpoint
of, you know, Spotify is doing all these great things. And he,
you know, I want, I'm speaking as Sam here. I want, I want open
the, you know, the open podcast ecosystem, to have those same
things. And I agree, because we're all that's what we're all
here for, is to make sure that that's that that is the case.
Um, there's an issue here that I just think is the elephant in
the room, and it's so big that we just we miss it okay, that,
you know, we could build a payment tag for RSS very easily.
That's that's really not an impediment to any of this stuff.
It, let's say that we want a way to to lock a piece of content
that's referenced in an enclosure. We want a way to lock
that behind a paywall. We could create some sort of payment tag,
and even we could even repurpose one of the existing tags that we
already have, uh, with, uh. Uh, with a so that it's when it's
present in an episode, you have to get some sort of payment,
conference confirmation, some sort of confirmation hash or
something that you then send back with the enclosure URL,
either either in a header or a parameter or something in order
to enable retrieval of the content. That's that's almost
trivial to to design. Now, of course, it would take some
coding to put it into the app, but the design is not difficult,
but what? But what would that look like in the app? It would
have to be some sort of transaction that takes place in
a web view that opens up to a third party payment platform,
sort of like bus sprout does with their subscriptions. What's
the obvious thing that's pro that's wrong here. This violates
apple and Google's platform policy. You can't do that.
Right? You're not allowed to use third party payment provide
payment platforms in order to make a thing like that happen,
so immediately you can't do this. Now you know bus brow
solution, where their their subscription product violates
this. This already to a certain degree, but, but because it's
considered a donation, you know, you don't, it's not unlocking
content. You're not paying, making a payment and then
receiving the content in in return, right? This
Adam Curry: is exactly what Patreon went through, right with
unlocking, with unlocking content, yeah,
Dave Jones: so it's considered a donation, just, you're just
sending this, you're sending the podcaster money. You're not
giving them money to get content in return, right? So that kind
of skirts around this problem. But if it's an actual digital
purchase of an audio book, right, then you run out of
trouble. You can't do it. You just simply cannot do it without
going through the without going through the platforms, payment
system.
Adam Curry: I don't think James and Sam actually discussed that
part of it, did they?
Dave Jones: No, they didn't. And see, that's, but that's, that's
the that's the issue here, this, this is a political problem, not
a technological problem, amen. I mean, I mean Paula and political
in quote, you know, quotes like this is not a problem. No, it's
not, but is a policy problem. Spotify has gotten special
treatment from App Store policies
Adam Curry: because of anti competitive stuff with the music
business apps.
Dave Jones: Exactly, yeah, in order to get around this issue,
as has as have other large players, Netflix and others have
gotten carve outs in order to allow their product to exist
into and to basically violate the rules which everybody else
is forced to comply
Adam Curry: with. Take us one step further about how crazy
this is. So how many times have we had someone who submitted an
app that wants to access podcast index get rejected with a with a
standard form that says, no, no, you have to show that you have
permission from all of these people in order to access their
content and make it playable in your app. Yeah,
Dave Jones: that's happened multiple times,
Adam Curry: and you know. So we have a form letter, a template,
and we send it on their behalf and say, no, no. Hey, look, this
is the terms of service. Here's how everything is submitted to
the index, and then the app gets approved. So I heard yesterday
from one of our no agenda producers. He made an RSS feed
reader rejected under the very same grounds,
Dave Jones: What? What? What service where they was he using
that they were complaining about? Well,
Adam Curry: they say that if you're going to ingest content
from other places, you need to show that you have approval from
those other places. So he hasn't yet, yeah, oh, yeah. So he has
a, you know, like a, like a starter pack, or a hot list or
something. It comes with the number of feeds already pre
installed. No, can't do that. Can't do that. So, so they're
literally creating hurdles for RSS to flow freely through apps
that are distributed through the app stores. It's disgusting.
Dave Jones: And see, this is the the okay V for V is an is an
ideology of, pay of, it's a
Adam Curry: cult of how he's a cult. Yes, V for V is a cult.
Yeah,
Dave Jones: lots of candles, horns, the it's, it's an
ideology about the way that you know. Get supported by your by
your listeners, but it's also the way podcasting works,
because of self defense from these dominant platforms. You
you can't sell content, digital content through through apps.
That's right with without giving Apple 30% of of the of the the
the revenue, and when you have people like that's and that's
even if you're using the in app payment solution through their
APIs. If you want to do it through a do an RSS feed in an
open way that's not proprietary, you can't do that at all. No,
now, now show me a salute. Now, you know, show me a solution
that works like Buzz sprouts, subscription mechanism. Thing
does, but instead of opening up a web a web view, a web view, it
in somehow embeds the Apple Pay and Google Pay data directly in
the RSS feeds, feed itself. Yeah, no. Show me that solution,
and I will gladly drop everything and make that tag a
reality. That's a promise, if, if, maybe it can be done. I
don't know. I'm
Adam Curry: sure true fans already does it
Dave Jones: True. True fans uses the web, the web version of
Apple, pay, right? And, and that works, but see, somehow this
would have to and so that's the way bus sprouts thing works. So
like, what bus sprout does is they put it, they put a link to
a sub to a sort of donation subscription page in the funding
tag, you tap the funding tag, it opens up and you can choose
there to donate to the show or do a monthly recurring
subscription, either through like Apple Pay or credit card or
other things. In order that and like, you know, like I said,
that works. They allow that to go to you to function, because
that's not technically a purchase, it's a donation. If
we, if we make this actually a purchase, then I don't think
that that. I think that is a violation. What, what you have
to have is a way that the app itself interacts with the APIs
without any web view, because you're not allowed to link to a
third party page in order to make a payment. So this data
would have to be the apple, Pay, Google, pay, all these things
would have to be embedded in the feed in a way that the app
itself could process the payment in app, right? And so, like I
said, may show me that that's doable and and I'm glad I will
happily write a tag for that, because, but this, this is not
what. What people always end up with is they describe a scenario
where you go and pay for content, and it unlocks it in
the app. And I'm saying that that that can't work,
Adam Curry: I guess. I guess the at this health thread, there are
two things. One is I just don't understand why we think we are
or even can compete with Spotify or Apple. I've never felt that
was the point. It's like, okay, then why don't you people just
use Spotify? You know, you whether you use Spotify or build
a new Spotify, you're gonna run into all the same issues, all
the same issues. Spotify is already fixed in the best way
they can fix it as a corporate entity. So I don't understand.
It's like, okay, well, I have people of audiobooks who want to
get paid. Okay, well, then they can go to Amazon or where else
they want to go. And you got to live by those rules. That's just
Amazon and Spotify and Apple. They they need to run their
business so you can't be doing it for free, and they don't. And
whatever they charge, they charge. That's Yes, I
Dave Jones: agree with James. I think I he said, The thing I'm
most keen to do is ensure that podcast apps get to benefit.
Basically, they get a piece of the action. I agree. I feel the
same way. That's if, if we can make, you know, I want to keep,
I want to keep up or be, or always be ahead of the of like
Spotify and Apple and these. I want to be ahead of them
technologically in the capabilities that that RSS can
provide. And also want it to be in a way where so if, if
somebody. It wants to sell their audiobook, they can sell it, and
if they choose to put it behind a paywall, hey, that's that's
fine. Doesn't really match my ideology, but that's fine.
They've, they're going to make that choice, and I want to be
able to service that and in some way where, if you buy it through
true fans, or through cast O Matic or podcast guru or
fountain, then then you know Sam and Franco and and Oscar and
Jason and all them can and Mitch can get a piece of that action.
It
Adam Curry: was very interesting. Stephen Bell had
what he called a thought experiment as a part of this
thread. Did you see that?
Dave Jones: I think I did what he said. I
Adam Curry: don't want to misquote him. Hold on a second.
Let me grab it here, because it was, it was, I liked it a lot.
Let me see, I might have to paraphrase it, but he said, Wow,
I wish I could find this. What he basically said is as a
thought experiment, as you know, as you're trying to make money,
and everyone's trying to make well, what does podcast index
do? Do they just decide, oh, well, you know, well, we're
going to charge you for some access in certain cases. You
know, there's a whole infrastructure behind here. You
know, there's a lot of moving pieces, and it's, it's not set
up for this. And so I don't know it just Well, I was more proud
of our little community not going crazy, and it didn't turn
into a massive flame war, because I've seen open source
communities burn out on exactly this type of threat. I agree,
and I thought that was fantastic. People tried to be
helpful. They provided counter perspectives, and it eventually,
and, you know, and of course, people like, Okay, I'm muting.
I'm gone. And yeah, and I like, that's what I thought was the
big win of this. Well,
Dave Jones: this, this ends up this. This is kind of leads
this. This is attached. Yeah, I agree, James. I'm not a fan of
purchasing podcasts, either, but I don't, I'm not gonna, you
know, shame other people for doing it. That's fine I pay for,
there's a couple of podcasts I pay for because they're behind
pay walls, and I just, I want to listen, so I pay for them
monthly that and then I'm not, like, bitter about it. I gladly
pay what, what they want. I think they could earn more if
they didn't do it that way. But that's just me, but it kind of
like attached to this. There's this, you know, we've got this
stealth project we're building, and this is funny. It's what
it's turning into, is basically, we're, it's the same thing we
always do. We're building something that we both really
want, and then other people can use it if they want to, pretty
Adam Curry: much, yeah, that's pretty much the modus operandi,
yes, yeah.
Dave Jones: But I remember, I remembered a while back, Leo
Laporte had a criticism of of what we were doing here, and he
said he's like, you know, Adam. You know Adam's building a
podcast into, you know, podcast directory. Who uses podcast
directories anymore?
Adam Curry: Well, I was just ignorance. He doesn't, didn't
really know what we were doing, right?
Dave Jones: But that, it kind of was a throwaway statement at the
time. But it turns out, who uses podcast directories anymore? The
answer is, everybody
Adam Curry: does, yeah, in one way, and they may not know it,
but they do
Dave Jones: try. And this is, this is related to this thing
we're building. Try getting your try getting a podcast to show up
anywhere if it doesn't exist in in at least one directory,
right? It it's almost impossible. Their directories
are critical to podcasting. They most all apps tag tap into a
directory in some shape, form or fashion, whether it's Apple or
or or us, but Spotify is closed, so that's doesn't really count,
but
Adam Curry: so is apples, for that matter,
Dave Jones: we'll see there. And that's, that's the issue. Is it
turn it turns out, you know, it turns out that the biggest issue
within podcasts. Well, sort of freedom, isn't it? Isn't
necessarily censorship, it's just, it's just existence.
Adam Curry: It's hard to exist.
Dave Jones: It is if you aren't in the directories, you just
don't exist, right? So what's what's happening is we know
we're trying to push some feeds in. To we're trying to, if we're
trying to link out that I've talked about this, I think,
couple weeks ago, when we're talking about episodes that FM,
I'm trying to link out for some from some newly created feeds to
to the podcast apps directly. So I want you know, I want you to
be able to, you've done this thing
Adam Curry: open, to open this podcast, and you're in the in
this app, right?
Dave Jones: You just created this thing. It has a feed, and I
want you to be able to, within 30 seconds, tap, oh, tap,
podcast guru or fountain, or cast a Matic, or pod verse or
podcast addict, and just have it there. It's where you can hit
subscribe. That's actually pretty tricky. It's not that
easy because most of them do not support a direct subscription by
URL, by Feed URL. Now, oddly, Apple is the easiest one of
these, because they have the sort of direct link where you
can just say podcast, colon, slash, slash in the feed URL,
um, you know, the the downside of that is, Apple doesn't
support most of the podcasting 2.0 tags we want to use, right?
So the other apps, they have various ways to get around this,
but in most circumstances, the feed has to exist in one of the
directories, whether Apple or us first. Now, for us, it's not,
you know, that's a pretty quick fix. I mean, we, you know, you
submitted and it's there within, you know, five minutes. But with
Apple, it's kind of impossible.
Adam Curry: You need an account. Look at comics, your blogger.
Yes, he, he wanted to be in he had to have someone else add it
to their account, because he doesn't, he wants to be
anonymous, and so he doesn't, he didn't want to open an account.
Dave Jones: And I guess it's related to our previous this is
where we're talking about just second ago, because it
podcasting is it has a lot of gates. There's a lot of
gatekeeping around, around this supposedly open protocol, and
there's a lot of things that keep it from operating in a
smooth, well oiled, open protocol fashion. And so these
are, these are things that they shouldn't be this way, but they
are. It should. It should not be that Apple gets to decide
whether or not you, as a podcaster, can sell an episode
of your of your audio book to your customer, right to your to
your listener. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. I don't
know. You have to work around it.
Adam Curry: I don't know if you noticed, but I think Spurlock
posted about this, that on iOS 18, you can now choose what
browser, what email client, you want to open automatically, but
you still can't choose which podcast app you want to open
automatically, because that would imagine, if Apple did
that, how much that would change?
Dave Jones: It would be huge. Oh, man, it would just be giant.
Yeah,
Adam Curry: it would be enormous. But for some reason,
they didn't do it. Gotta wonder. I gotta wonder
Dave Jones: part, I think I've said, I've mentioned this
before, part of me is sort of glad they haven't done it until
now, in a weird way. And that's that seems like a, it's like a
hypocritical from based on what I just said. But I think there
would have been a lot of people who set their default to be
Spotify, maybe, or something, you know, or something else. So
I think that was a move on their part to sort of like, hold some
of that at bay for a long time when Spotify was on its mega
podcast. Kick maybe now that, maybe now that that's, yeah, a
little, a little apple backyard mischief, yeah, probably.
Adam Curry: I mean, what do they care? People are using their
devices. That's the whole point. Yeah. Why do they care? Yeah,
Dave Jones: Apple podcast is in the net. It's an appendix and
anachronism on the entire organization. It doesn't make
any money.
Adam Curry: It's a dangling appendix. Is what it is. It is
no no participle, no disrespect to the team over there. No
disrespect at all.
Dave Jones: Oh, I'm glad they exist. I'm thankful that they
still have jobs. Yeah, so
Adam Curry: time to play a little music. I'm very excited
about this song for today. Oh, cool. You know, I'm back doing
boosted grand ball every 14 days. Jim Costello, phantom
power music is is producing with me, which I really love, because
it made it possible. And again, I will reiterate, December 16
antones, very famous venue in Austin will be Adam Curry's
booster Grand Ball. Live. I feel like Dick Clark. I feel like
I'm, you know, like we're coming full. Is that your dog or mine?
No, that's you. I feel like we're coming full. Cycle. You
know, I'm doing a sock hop, and I think we're gonna have four,
four or five bands, but I think Jimmy V on boarded, these guys
into into the value verse. This is Rebel hero and Run you.
Unknown: You walk in sleep.
You tell me, some broken things you
can't repay. It'll
be Dead. Can they fall down
to make it up to The people on air?
Adam Curry: Uh, so that's music for a Friday, right there.
Dave Jones: That's, do you remember the band extreme? Of
course, yeah, that's that sounds like extreme to me, huh?
Adam Curry: Well, some people say it sounds like Lenny Kravitz
and but you know what? There you go. At least it's not AI,
Dave Jones: yes, absolutely
Adam Curry: not AI, not AI. Music, I love that. What are you
drinking? Show, beard,
Dave Jones: this is, this is, this is a polar SEL, sir,
Mandarin, oh, polar cell. You know what's good is the polar.
Seltzer, orange, vanilla
Adam Curry: with natural flavors.
Dave Jones: No doubt that's very natural.
Adam Curry: Thanks for boosting. Eric PP, Eric PP, boosted in for
rebel hero. Very nice. Nice.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so Alex is working on, he's working with
some people on Monero,
Adam Curry: oh, to bring that into value for value. Oh, cool,
Dave Jones: yeah, value for value, he said, he said to be to
ask that if anybody wants to help him, he's open call. Very
nice there, yeah, there's, evidently, serious about it, and
gonna get some work done on that.
Adam Curry: I am on the beta for fountain. And, you know, so
Oscar already launched the music tab in 1.15 I think, which is
very cool. And now they have fountain radio, so kind of the
way they have, remember, they had that test page on a on a web
page, so that that's in the app now. Oh, cool. Yeah, that's very
cool. It's a great way to discover music. I love that
they're doing that. I think that's really cool.
Dave Jones: Uh, Nate, Nathan, Nathan, I'm working with a few
of the apps to get some direct, uh, some like, more direct URL
launching support, and I'm going to push that stuff to your repo
as as that becomes better. Now you're
Adam Curry: literally talking to the tro to the boardroom. No one
listen to the podcast knows what you're talking about, yeah,
Dave Jones: but you should have been here. That's my, oh, I'm
Adam Curry: sorry. Okay, all right.
Dave Jones: The So, and Nathan said, you know, basically he
wants more, because he keeps the sort of master list of how,
Adam Curry: yeah, yeah, that's right, how to, how to launch
him. Yes, that's correct, right? He
Dave Jones: does have that. And so I've been so far, Frank
Franco has added direct URL support for customatic links.
Oh, cool. So you can do customatic colon, slash, slash
the feed URL that's in the test flight version right now.
Adam Curry: Well, since we're in the in the board meeting, we're
doing this. I have a bug report for for Nathan. So when, so
whenever I want to send a link to a lit episode from episodes
that FM The title is undefined.
Dave Jones: Oh, interesting, yeah. Like, would that happen
right now to our show, let me take a look. Let me see, let's
go to let me click on the boot on the Toot, toot.
Adam Curry: I think so. Let me see podcasting 2.0 podcast.
There it is, episodes, live,
Dave Jones: yeah. Here it is. Listen, yeah, and
Adam Curry: see, look at the title bar. Undefined. See the
title bar if you look at the title of the title bar of your
tab.
Dave Jones: Months is podcasting two point. No, no, I haven't
clicked into the episode. Yeah,
Adam Curry: click into the episode. Okay, all right. Yeah,
it does live bug reports, everybody,
Dave Jones: yep, undefined, you're undefined, I'm
Adam Curry: undefined. I've been, I've been trying to remind
myself to report that bug, and now I did it.
Dave Jones: That's a great that'd be a great t shirt.
Adam Curry: I'm undefined. No, it's just undefined,
Dave Jones: undefined, yeah, okay, so and the other one that
we've that's that I have discovered, and I don't think
that this is on the repo for Nathan. Stuff is that you can
launch Alex from podcast Guru said, if you you can launch
podcast guru using a deep link URL. So this would be, let me go
here. Let me go over here and make sure I'm given the right
URL format. Hang on one second radio
development. Okay, so if you go to versus feed, if you do ape,
that's not on here, oh, I gotta go to my phone, my bed. Sorry,
I'm trying to find the link so I can give the exact so while
you're doing that, I
Adam Curry: have another bug report with episodes that FM,
no, no, no. When, when launching a deep URL to open on fountain
on Android, the app crashes,
Dave Jones: okay, yeah. Oscar is also putting in a straight link.
I talked to him about it, too. He. I
Adam Curry: want a queer link. If you don't mind, I'm not.
Dave Jones: You would. Where's numb? Everything's crashing over
here on me. I'm, I'm just in such a
Adam Curry: world of hurt. What are you doing? Mine? What are
you doing? Apple notes
Dave Jones: crashed now. What now when? Apple I
Adam Curry: love it. Tina will share me also. I'll send this to
you on email, and I get an apple notes, and then you click on it
and says you have to log in. Like, no,
Dave Jones: I don't think so. No, you're being the appleness
is being too helpful. This is the stupidest thing. Oh, here it
is. All right. So the URL is app, dot. Podcast
guru.io/podcast/capital, x and then the full Feed URL, hex
encoded. So just do a straight Oh, okay, Hex encoding of the
characters and append that after the capital X, and that that
will have confirmed it worse, that will open podcast guru to
that exact feed.
Adam Curry: It's amazing. All Apple has to do is just let you
set a default app and all these problems would be solved for 80%
it's amazing. It's amazing because Android does it already.
Don't they do podcasts, colon, slash, slash, I think so.
Dave Jones: We need an Android person to to let us know that I
ordered an Android phone for development. What did you order?
Ordered? Actually ordered two, ordered that small device that
you have, the cat, the
Adam Curry: cat s 22 was my driver, man, my daily driver.
You're gonna love it. You're gonna want nothing else but this
phone, the cat, yeah, it's fantastic.
Dave Jones: And then I ordered, uh, cow. What was that other
thing? I ordered galaxies, like a larger, a larger screen phone.
It wasn't, it was a larger screen phone, just because I
needed, I wanted both to test with, see what the different,
you know, covers, sort of all that thing. But I've been
meaning to do that forever, because there's this whole
world, like podcast addict. I don't even know what it looks
like. Never used it before.
Adam Curry: It has ads, yeah, if you, if you're not a if you
don't pay for it, it has ads, little banners, kind of old
school that way. It's like, oh, look at those little, cute
banners.
Dave Jones: Oh, here it is. It's the Motorola. Oh, goodness, oh,
goodness, Motorola Moto. And
Adam Curry: we need a pod. LP, we need a Chios. I can't find my
kyos. I had a kyos flip phone, but I can't find it anymore. Is
the
Dave Jones: Motorola Moto, g5, g20, 23 Yeah, Android 13. I hope
that's good enough. Anyway, I'm
Adam Curry: feeling a lot of developer pain, brother, I'm
feeling your developer pain. I'm feeling Marco's developer pain.
Oh, my God, he's going through so much. Developer, pain.
Dave Jones: Marco Armin, oh, yeah, really? Oh,
Adam Curry: come on. Oh, when? I mean, he did a complete
relaunch. You know, you know what happens? Like, stuff
doesn't work. Stuff breaks. Stuff works differently. People
are mad. People are upset. They're yelling. I mean, I'm
getting people like, boosted and go through, ah, this new
fountain that might be the Lightning Network. Okay, you
know, it's the pain, the pain of refactoring, of upgrades, as
it's so people have no idea. These developers just make it
look easy. Oh, it's just a little, a little icon on your on
your phone. Click open. It should work. Everything perfect.
For free. I um,
Dave Jones: having, having now done some, some serious UI work,
which I haven't done in a, you know, a few years, like, like,
real UI work where I'm actually trying to make it look good, not
just I'm
Adam Curry: withholding comment is
Dave Jones: it is so tedious. Yeah, I know, so tedious, even
with the modern tools, which are great. I mean, like, tailwind is
great. The modern CSS standards are wonderful. Like, grid, the
grid system and the Flex System are amazing. Like, all this
stuff is wonderful, but it's still just so tedious. You make
one change and then you like the other day, I found that for some
reason, flex, flex, justify start, is the default on every
browser, except,
Adam Curry: except edge. Oh, goodness, of course, of course.
Edge would do something different,
Dave Jones: yeah. And so then you have to, then, you know, I
have to go back, and I'm like, why is it doing this? Why is it,
why is it centering this content instead of putting it left
justified? And you. Works everywhere. Why is this working?
And then I go, and it's because it was working everywhere else.
I just assumed it was worried, but I had to go and explicitly
define justified and left. It's just wow, tedious. So tedious.
Yeah, Everything's ruined. To feel the pain. Everything's
Adam Curry: ruined. Just Everything's ruined. Oh, hold on
a second. Yes, I will, Alex, I will put your contact details in
the show notes, you bet. So people want to work on Monero
with them. Okay, in touch with them. Absolutely done. Well, let
me see, should we thank some people? Because I have to still
get you out of time. We got the summer hours here. Let me go
through some of the boosters that have come in. Oy
steenberger, 3333, and that was for rebel hero. And he says to
all the rebels out there, heard it on podcasting 2.0 yes, thank
you for for that's always good to put it in there, because
doesn't always show up everywhere where you heard it
from Flo Gnar Kyle 1776 to go podcasting, Freedom boost. Have
a great weekend. Thank you very much. Eric PP, 3333 for rebel
hero. 1000 from blueberry, who says more play walls. Yes,
please and thank you. Instead of paying for a podcast, pay for a
hearty recovery potion for your favorite hero, when RPGs and PC
2.0 combined forces you speak in riddles, my friend, you speak in
noodles. Let me see br, let me know about Stephen Bell's
comment with 1000 sets. Thank you. I found it sir libre,
lightning thrashes, 1111. Thanks for making podcasting great
again. And remember for all your resume and job search needs,
visit image makers. Inc.com, that's image makers. Inc, with
the k.com while listening to lightning thrashes. This is a
very, very weird crossover
Dave Jones: cross promotion, yes. And then
Adam Curry: we have that 1 million SATs from anonymous,
although I'm seeing weirdly in the This is very strange in the
in my helipad, it says 1% split. No, that, no, that's right,
that'd be one, yeah. So that must Wow. And you know what,
Daniel J Lewis was still in the splits. Oh, Daniel got a bonus
today
Dave Jones: in the in the in in an out on the Al Gore scale
hills, 273 Hiroshi mclas,
Adam Curry: beautiful salted crayon with a short row of
ducks. 2222 howdy boardroom. We had a fun discussion the V for V
jockeys channel that's on telegram before the show with
shares versus percentages. Oh, we're back to that. For fun, I
looked up my feet and sovereign fees. I had a total of 9,200%
splits for five splits, whole lot. Stephen B was breaking it
down for us, but if you all could take a crack at it, would
love to hear it go podcasting. I don't understand. I don't know
he yet it's shares versus percentages. He's willing
Dave Jones: to break to hear somebody go over how it's
calculated.
Adam Curry: Yeah, so why do we're not gonna do that today,
next week, next week. But how do you get 9200 percentages? I have
to go look at that. Yes. Crayon, of course, no. Eric PP, 777, and
we got a 7777 from cotton gin. It br milkshake boost from salty
crayon. 333, another, anonymous with 777, and we've hit the
delimiter.
Dave Jones: We got, um, speaking of Buzz Brow from earlier, with
the subscription, uh, talk, they gave us
Unknown: $1,000
Adam Curry: keeping it alive, brothers, thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. That's
appreciated. We are value for value. After all, that's how
everything keeps running, and they care and they show it.
Dave Jones: Tim at technology one Inc, $100
Adam Curry: Wow. Tim, thank you. That's great. That's a new he's
a new donor. Is he not?
Dave Jones: He is? Yeah, he's a one time dinner. Let me defrag
it exactly. Thank you. He says, Thank you for this service.
You're welcome to Oh, let's see we got some boosts. Where's our
boots? At you? Flip over to boosts. Oh, wait, wait, wait,
oh, I flipped over to boost, and I just boost when, when I
flipped over, I just happened to see from 55 minutes ago,
donation from rss.com ben@rss.com 1100 OH. 11
Adam Curry: Blaze only Impala, a row of satchel of Richards.
Dave Jones: He says, Hey Adam and Dave, a row of sticks and
bricks to add to the frame of the podcast index and in honor
and celebration of Aaron Schwartz's birthday on November
the
Adam Curry: eighth. Oh, that's right. Oh, thanks, brother.
That's so cool. That's
Dave Jones: a good one. Keep up the great work from your
friends@rss.com go podcasting.
Adam Curry: Yes, you got podcasting? Wow, nice.
Dave Jones: Yes. Thank you guys. Appreciate this. So much support
today. This is lovely. Love this, yeah. Thank you so much.
Adam Curry: Let's see that's about 16. Well, what is it? 1.6
million sets?
Dave Jones: What 1111? 16 million? No,
Adam Curry: no, no, no, no, it's 1.6
Dave Jones: 1.6 okay, I've totally screwed up my inbox. Oh,
I've got a sword by size. That's what did I do that?
Adam Curry: Oh, bad idea. Never know, because we always wind up
at the bottom. That's
Dave Jones: right, speak for yourself. Oh, we got music,
Mama. That's Julie. Julie Costello, 10,000 SAS, Thank you,
Julie. Thank you fountain, beautiful she says, need to
catch up soon. Just Yes, brunch with the podcast, lawyer about
licensing and V for V music distribution chat soon. Went
back from California. Yes,
Adam Curry: you know she was, she and Jim were in Florida
helping clean up for Helene. Such beautiful people. Oh,
Dave Jones: they're, they're great people. They really are.
Oh, another music mama, 5000 says. She says, yeah. AV, for V
music, she gives a not a nostr key, okay, not an in pub.
Thanks, AC and DJ for all you do for music,
Adam Curry: then we're doing it for love,
Dave Jones: anonymous, 100 sets listening on podcasting to
Dotto, thank you. That's for the best for the tunes. Steve Webb,
hey, the podcaster. Steve Webb, 7777 through fountain. He says,
love it. Heard it on podcasting 2.0 episode 197, all right. And
the delimiter, comic strip. Blogger 23,000 says this is from
last week because he didn't realize we were on hiatus. He
says, howdy, Adam and Dave, are you ready to take your podcast
from good to great? Dive, dive into podcast tips with Rob
Greenlee. Oh, wow. He's doing a promo for Rob Greenlee
Adam Curry: right on All right, that's fantastic. I
Dave Jones: love that reaching way out. Dive into podcast tips
with Rob Greenlee, where every episode is packed with
actionable advice, the latest trends and insider tips on
making your podcast stand out. Whether you're a beginner or a
seasoned podcaster, please subscribe in your podcast player
apps or directly on their website, podcast
tips.blueberry.net. Yo. CSB,
Adam Curry: oh, thank you. CSB,
Dave Jones: we got some monthlies. We got silicon
florist, $10 Chris Cowan, $5 Paul Saltzman, $22.22 Derek J
visker, $21 yarn Rosenstein, $1 Damon cast Jack, $15 Jeremy
gerds $5 New Media Productions that's Todd and Rob. $30 gene
Liverman $5 Michael Hall $5.50 Timothy voice, $10 Satan's
lawyer, $5 holistine Bear $5 Charles current $5 Michael
Goggin $5 Jorge Hernandez $5 James Sullivan 10. Christopher
Reimer 10. Cohen Glasgow, five and Jordan dunville $10
Adam Curry: Oh, wonderful. Thank you all so much. We are, of
course, value for value. The whole index runs value for
value. No pay walls here, no no premium content, no bonus stuff,
no. It's all out in the open, all for you to enjoy. You can
support us with your time, your talent, your treasure. Join our
community. Podcast index, dot social. Add your feed to
podcast. Index.org, jump in, help out. And of course, we
always love your treasure, your financial support, which you can
help out by boosting us when we're doing the show, just to
get a modern podcast app or go to podcast index.org, down at
the bottom is one big red donation button that takes you
to our Fiat fund coupon interface, known as PayPal. You
can also do that from a lot of the modern podcast apps. You can
tap on support this podcast. There's little, little stack of
dollar signs. You can get to it directly from there. Value for
value, it is more than just a monetization. Model, it's a
lifestyle, and it's a cult.
Dave Jones: And a lifestyle,
Adam Curry: is there a difference? Hey, that's
interesting. But just a boost came in from a second boost came
in from Chad F says the 1 million sat boost is fake news.
I'll post about it on the mask that I want to get home, huh?
Fake News. Fake News.
Dave Jones: No, where we were. We scammed
Adam Curry: what was sent through curio caster. So I don't
know if you, I don't know. Well,
Dave Jones: I mean, you can always fake a TLV record.
There's no, there's no confirmation to that. Did it say
that you can fake all? I mean, you can fake the TLVs. It's
like, it's like an email. You can, like, you can put anything
in the from address.
Adam Curry: Oh, hold on a second. No. I mean, let me, this
is interesting. Let me see. I mean, I'm seeing, I mean, it
tripped all the tripped, all the bits. Oh, 35 minutes ago. I can,
I can load the TLV
Dave Jones: on your helipad, yeah,
Adam Curry: no, I see the total value, M sat total, yeah, but
Dave Jones: that's in the TLV, right, yeah. You can fake the
to, did your balance go up by a million cents?
Adam Curry: Well, no, because I only get 1% on the on my note,
the rest goes to podcast index.
Dave Jones: Did it get did it go up by by 1% of a million cents?
Adam Curry: I don't know. I wasn't paying attention. I don't
look at that stuff. Hmm, interesting. All right, well,
we'll find out. But the value m, SAT, 123120, hold on, a second.
No, yeah, so I so I would have received 10,000 SATs, 1% I'll
have to say, oh, I can download the TLV. Wow, this helipad
thing, man, that's outrageous. Cool. That was just cool.
Dave Jones: Whoever built that deserves it, I know,
Adam Curry: yeah. And I mean, Eric PP, but whoever's
maintaining it deserves a pat on the
Dave Jones: back. But yes, thank you.
Adam Curry: Let me see. Oh, so they're already showing this in
the chat. F is showing it? I don't know.
Dave Jones: In the boardroom, yeah, I don't know. I don't
know. We either got we either got scammed
Adam Curry: or doesn't I'm happy. I'm happy no matter what.
I'm happy either way. And fun, yeah, exactly. We had a good
time. All right, everybody, that is the the board meeting for
today. Dave back. You're coming up on another busy season, I
guess. Oh, what is it? No, December. It's not. This is okay
right now this month, or you still have right
Dave Jones: now to say, Yeah, December. December is the
busiest time for me. But right now we're in a, we're in a cool
we're in cool down here, cool down
Adam Curry: period. Well, I'm glad, I'm glad you're back,
brother, it was good to have another board meeting. I missed
it last week. I felt very strange.
Dave Jones: I was in the middle of nowhere. There's a, we're in
the sipsy wilderness, which is up in north Alabama. It's a
designated wilderness area.
Adam Curry: So there's, there's, oh, no, a designated Wilderness
Area, hmm,
Dave Jones: yeah. It's like, it's, there's no, there's no,
like Rangers, there's nothing. I mean, it is your own. Melissa
Adam Curry: could have killed you, and no one would have
known.
Dave Jones: Thanks for putting that in my head for next time.
Adam Curry: Hey brother, have yourself a great weekend. All
right, everybody. We'll be back next Friday, right here in the
boardroom of podcasting 2.0
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast
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