Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for November 1, 2024, episode 199,
feed bloat, hello everybody. It is a brand new month, and a
brand new board meeting. Podcasting 2.0 is ready to go,
where we discuss all things podcasting, what is ahead, what
is here, now, and sometimes we look over our shoulder. We are
indeed the only boardroom that has no agenda to follow or key
decision making authority. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man with the plan,
that plan is phase eight. Say hello to my friend on the other
end, the one, the only Mr. Dave Jones.
Dave Jones: So I've got so much crap in here in this room now
it's just I the reason we couldn't rip in a timely fashion
is because I had so much like, it's just chaos you've
Adam Curry: been living in that room. That's why you've
literally, I know Melissa. You don't have to call me Melissa. I
know he's living in that room. Am I right?
Dave Jones: Sleeping bag under the desk? Yes, you
Adam Curry: know it's really bad when you know that you've been
working in your in your office too much at home, when your wife
puts the kitty litter box in your office to try to stink you
out. Yeah, you're screwed when that happens. Yeah, they're
Dave Jones: trying to smoke you out. Yeah, you're like, oh
Adam Curry: no, oh no,
Dave Jones: I'm coming out. Brother, no, I've got, I bought,
I bought this car play Android Auto device, and that's set up
in here. And
Adam Curry: what exactly is that? Because I have CarPlay in
my or no auto Android in my car, and now you have a device for
it. How does that work? Yeah,
Dave Jones: okay, so this is like, and then grab it. Okay,
it's, this is an Amazon special. Oh, because it's got, it's just
a white box that says portable, wireless car stereo. It's like
the generic peanut butter container. This is white, and it
just says peanut butter and black, yeah, so, but it's, it's
just seven inch like a wide screen, 16 by nine format
screen, uh huh, touch screen with and it's got Android Auto
and CarPlay, oh, and on on it, so it's like a head unit and
Adam Curry: but now, do you connect portable? How do you
connect it to audio through a Bluetooth or a J really?
Dave Jones: Bluetooth? Yes,
Adam Curry: that's pretty cool.
Dave Jones: It's only 50 bucks. It was 499
Adam Curry: that's not even 50 bucks. It was not even $50
that's interesting. And does it have? Does it come with velcro
to put it on your dashboard?
Dave Jones: It does not. It comes with a little sand, oh,
and a suction cup. Perhaps it's not a suck it's not a sucky
stand. It's, it's the it's a, like a, I don't know, I forgot
what. It's some kind of other stand. It's not the sucky one.
Like,
Adam Curry: well, how does this, how does it stay stable in your
car?
Dave Jones: Oh, wait, I was wrong. It is the sucky stand
that I
Adam Curry: thought it was new. Show title, sucky stand.
Dave Jones: This stand sucks No, it doesn't.
Adam Curry: It's just, what are you doing?
Dave Jones: I'm putting it back together. I'd put it all out of
the total out of the box so I can put it back together. This
says it has wireless CarPlay, Android Auto, screen mirroring,
car stereo with backup camera.
Adam Curry: Is it also a dashboard cam? It
Dave Jones: says no installation fees.
Adam Curry: I think that's your VMI podcasting, 2.0 no
installation fees needed,
Dave Jones: yeah, free estimates.
Adam Curry: Your insurance will pay for it.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So I've got this thing in here. And then
there's also, there's also this my Android phone that I bought
off, you know, to have a test thing with. I've got commentary,
by the way, on it, on PWAs, yes,
Adam Curry: and maybe I'll talk about that right now. But maybe
I should say that what is happening here, what is
happening here is Dave and I have been working on this
project for a couple months now, and it's starting to ramp up,
and we're so in it that when and I was getting ready to start the
board meeting like I only want to talk about our stuff,
honestly, my head's so full. There's some things we can we
can totally discuss without, you know, because it's just not
unclothed yet, and there's a whole bunch of people who need
to be informed about it, but we can certainly talk about some
things and what we've learned. I Well, here's something I learned
on iPhones, which I do not possess, P, W, A's work on Car
Play that they Yes, they do. I had no idea that they worked on
CarPlay.
Dave Jones: So it. Yes, I guess we'll, I guess we'll talk about
it. So the I'm trying to find the link to this thing that I
bought, so I could put it in the board room. There it is. Okay, I
got it now. Yeah, so the car, there's a, there's a PWA aspect
to this thing we're making. And there it is. There's a, there's
a PWA component to this thing. And so I'm like, Well, you know,
we obviously you want, you want this, this media that you're
playing, to be able to show on the lock screen and on Car Play
and all these things, um, you know, the top, the title and the
image, the album art, and all this kind of stuff, yeah. So,
um, even though it's not the main thrust of what we're doing,
we've got this, this PWA thing as a, as a, as a fallback
component. So the, you know, there's a, there's a thing that
enables this, called the media session. The media session API,
and a all apps have access to this through native APIs or
through there's a web API for it. It's just called media
session. So you can check and if Media Session exists as an
object in in the in the the DOM, then you can add your metadata
to that, and then it will then, then globally, the OS will see
that that media session and be able to know what to display for
things like a Now Playing screen. So from any app or web
session you can, you can just add this metadata to the media
session, and then the OS can pick it up. This. This is, it's
an open standard, you know, widely, widely supported. I
mean, literally, every platform that I know of supports the
media session, AP, except Android except and except
Android Auto, except Android Auto, stupid,
Adam Curry: Google. Yeah,
Dave Jones: so the so and the Android apps. You can set it and
it works on the lock screen, yeah? But as soon as you push to
Android Auto, it just nothing reads. It
Adam Curry: doesn't, doesn't, doesn't exist, yeah, yeah.
Because so
Dave Jones: CarPlay has, CarPlay has this notion of a Now Playing
screen. So if there's media playing from somewhere. It
doesn't matter where, where it's coming from. What happens? Okay,
from? Yeah, yeah, you can it'll, it'll just have now playing sort
of like a default home screen that you did you land on right
and or a widget.
Adam Curry: We have no controls. No, you
Dave Jones: have controls. Yeah, you have controls too. No, it
looks beautiful. It looks just like your phone lock screen just
on your car, huh? But Android Auto has no equivalent of this.
Yeah, it only understands apps, and if the app doesn't, if the
if the app is not published through the through the Google
Play Store, and have all the and have like the, we call it the
like permissions, or, yeah, whatever manifest, or whatever
for for enabling Android Auto, it just doesn't show up. You
can't even launch it. It's like, it doesn't exist. You can hear
the audio, but you can't see anything else. This is a huge
this is a weird thing to me, because going into this, I
thought, okay, CarPlay is going to be the hard one to get
working, because this is an open standard. So obviously Android,
exactly
Adam Curry: Apple, would be the hardest guys ever. But no, it's
actually quite, quite easy. Yeah,
Dave Jones: we got, we got, we got Apple for free, and
Android's been the pain in the butt. So I don't know if this so
that's what I discovered. If anybody I believe me, I have
Googled every permutation of this that I can possibly imagine
and come back with zero answers. So and I even went so far as to
put, uh, put the Android Auto interface on the phone into what
they call un or developer mode, where you can, where you can,
quote, unquote, enable unknown Apps,
Adam Curry: extra features that are not the undocumented
features.
Dave Jones: Yeah, advanced, you know, advanced, otherwise known
as normal mode. Yes. And I enabled this thing, and it still
doesn't work. So that's horrible. If anybody has some
some work around some top secret juice, tell me, hmm, I would
love to know about it, by the way, true fans, speaking of PWA,
is true fans enabled offline playback. I would love to know
how they did that, because that sounds super hard and as a PWA,
now that I've had a little bit of dabbling in the PWA universe,
I've got mad respect for what true fans is doing as a PWA. The
performance is excellent. It like it. It operates top notch
as a as a PWA, and that is hard to do because, especially on the
iPhone, because the iPhones PWA support is spotty to begin with,
and it all, and it tends to get bogged down. Yeah, in some Have
you noticed this?
Adam Curry: I can't notice that because I've removed apple from
my life.
Dave Jones: No, yeah. Well, you, I will, I will notice it for
you. It tends to get bogged down, so that sometimes, like
tapping and moving things just doesn't work and you have to
reload the kill the app and reload it. But true fans seems
very immune to this, and so kudos is all I can say. Now,
Adam Curry: are they still working on native apps. I mean,
I know that Sam Sethi threatened it, but I don't know if he
actually started on it or not.
Dave Jones: I haven't heard any update on it. I don't know. Let
me check my email see if you send an email
Adam Curry: the true fans update of the week, which includes
inline images and and headers and subtitles is always a it's
an interesting read, but I do have to sit down and take my
time to go through it. You
Dave Jones: need a cup of coffee. Yeah, you do. I don't
see anything in here about the native apps in his latest
update. I love these updates, by the way. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I wish everyone update like that,
Dave Jones: straight up. Me too, because
Adam Curry: I need more to do during the day. A lot more.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's anyway, so that's, that's the that's the
latest in my adventures in PWA land. Well, yeah, it'll be,
it'll be fun to talk about things in the open. Because I
think it's like, I think what we're doing fits in so nicely to
everything with podcasting and podcasting to Dotto, I think it
just, I think we're just kind of slotting this thing into a lot
of open spaces. That's what it feels like. What
Adam Curry: I've been so part of what I've been doing for this
project as I've been experimenting with live which
has been really, it's been so good to do that again, and
especially since you can put a live item into your RSS feed,
what a genius move that was. And and when I look back and I have
to keep reminding myself, we've been doing this for 15 years.
You know, doing the podcast like no agenda, doing the podcast
live. We've got the, I mean, for I know that we haven't quite,
ever really finalized the the chat part of the of the live
tag, although it's there, you know, there was never really a
consensus on as far as I know. I mean, I think curry caster, no,
we got cat. Chat tag exists, but chat tag exists, but no one's
really implemented the chat, oh, except for curio caster, I think
has a web frame that that brings up. Maybe it's Kiwi IRC or
something like that. Because IRC, for some reason, just seems
to be the most rock solid, the most developments done on it for
the chat. And it's it's really amazing. I mean, you look at the
boost bot, you look at the integration of split kit and and
the live web socket. So the minute I play something, the
title, the metadata, gets shuttled through from my playout
system into the I mean, IRC is just where all the development
has taken place. And by the way, these are, you know, these are
GitHub available features like boost bot, and it's not Adam
curry level. So for me, it's like, can I install it on my
start nine with one click? If not, okay, it's gonna be
painful. So boost spot, you know, the heli, the helipad
stuff is just phenomenal, and it works so well. When you just do
a live podcast, you know, you just say, Okay, we're going to
start. We hit record. You do the podcast, you know. And it's not
like the live stream, the no agenda live stream, you know.
It's not like we're we're tight, like a radio station tight. Now
we click in. I'm futzing around for five minutes. Sometimes I
play songs, and it has this 24 hour stream has such a nice
appeal. Then, when, when there's no, when there's no live, then
it automatically falls back to a schedule. It pulls in a
scheduled podcast. And, you know, I've just been, just been
enjoying messing around with schedulers and kind of getting
back into it. I mean, I've been doing that for like, I mean,
I've been doing Ray. CEO stuff since I was 13, but I can go all
the way back to, gosh, what were some of the early, I mean, the
early shout cast and ice casts and scripting lineups and
formats and doing stuff like that. And now that we have
music, you know, it's like you can do music stations, value for
value, not all, but many of the podcasting 2.0 apps will, will
let you stream value for value in real time or boost. I mean,
it's, it's such an open opportunity, but it's, it's
always a little scary. You know, for people to go, to actually go
live, like Oy steenberger, that guy's flying without a net, and
he's flying without a wingsuit. He's flying. He just flapping
his arms. He comes on. He just goes, Man, he just goes, it's
fantastic. I love it. I love that. I love that too. You know,
it's just, it's, it's, it's really a lot of fun and and
that's because I've been doing boosted grand ball again, it's
every 14 days, but, you know, at least now it's kind of set
Wednesday, every 14 days, 1pm I go live, and that's where the
interaction, you know, it's, it's one thing to do a music
show, but when you have the corner of your eye, you've got
the chat room scrolling by. It's just great. You know, you feel,
you feel like you're doing so same with the boardroom. Just
feel like something is happening, the interaction is
almost automatic. And then when you go back and listen to the
podcast, it doesn't irritate me that, oh, you know, there's the
guys talking to people in the boardroom or the chat room or
the troll room, you know, fill in whatever name you have for
it. In fact, if anything, it makes me want to be there, which
is what has always been the that's how I was taught with
making shows you you want to make the audience feel like they
should be there. I got to be there. I got to be there for
that thing. Whether I didn't want to like they don't want to
miss it, yeah, yeah. Like you want to be there in person, or
you want, you know, or, of course, that's not possible, but
at least you know, with with all these protocols we have, you can
be there by remote. It's there is something so big happening in
this type of format. We just haven't really pulled it all
together yet, and part of that is the hosting companies. Of
course, we have pod home and RSS blue, and I'm sure there's a few
other I'm sure, I'm sure blueberry does it. But
podcasting, this really goes back to the early days when we
had no gear. You had no gear. So it was very hard even, I mean,
there must have been eight years we were teaching people how to
set up a mix, minus to have, you know, someone on remote and you
know, and not have them hear themselves back through Skype or
whatever we were using in the early days. And so people kind
of since we didn't have live gear like the rodecasters, which
I think really is still the flagship, because there's a lot
of it comes out of the box. There's other ones now as well,
but we were using gear for musicians, and it just really
wasn't appropriate for for a live type of program. And so we
defaulted back to editing. And this after the fat post, yeah,
post. And so we've got, we have an entire industry which now
includes AI to chop out your ers and your UMS. And instead of
honing your skills and getting better at what you're actually
saying at the moment, you're saying it. And we have an entire
category of Podcast Producer, oh, I'm a podcast editor. You
know, which, which is filled up. And of course, now a lot of them
are sadly find themselves out of a job as the as the budgets are
being cut everywhere.
Dave Jones: I've been listening to your live stream and to your
test stream, you know, for a few days now, and it's just, it's
great. I love it. Thank you. I love it the like, just the the
mix of various things that that that come on. It's like, it's
amateur, it's amateur radio, but done by a professional. If that
makes
Adam Curry: any sense, like, I know how to do it. I just can't
quite get there yet.
Dave Jones: It's like, you know, you you know, yeah, you know how
to do it, and you're tinkering with, yeah, yeah. It's like,
you're tinkering with it to get it to be what the thing your
vision is. And it's fun. It's fun to watch. Like, I think that
it's, yeah, yeah. I'm
Adam Curry: learning a lot. I'm learning a lot. And it's
basically, I think, three I can't even get my wife to listen
to it yet.
Dave Jones: Oh, really. I think it's awesome. It's great.
Adam Curry: I love it. She actually said this morning, now,
how do I do that? How do I how do I find this thing? So, who
knows? You know, I've learned, you know, if you push people
will never do it. And yeah, by the way, my family barely
listens to any of my podcasts. You know, Tina listens to Noah.
J. And she never listens to this. Of course, you just nerds.
Just some nerd I know. Did you do your nerd show? George? Did
you do your nerd show? Yet? Her own podcast that we do, curry
and the keeper, I'll show. Listen to that
Dave Jones: for a second time after doing,
Adam Curry: oh yeah. She's like, You never listen to the show. I
was there when I did it. What are you talking about? I know. I
know it was good.
Dave Jones: I don't have time to listen to this show for a
second. Well,
Adam Curry: sometimes right after, right after the show,
I'll take the dog for a walk, and I will listen to it while
I'm on the walk, you know, just to I always am sampling stuff,
you know, just to make sure the sound is good, the interaction
is good. You know, that kind of
Dave Jones: stuff. I've listened to this show maybe six or seven
times when I when I was like, I was worried that I didn't like
that I was confusing, or that didn't or I said something
wrong. And I'm like, did I say that? Right now, I'll go back
and listen to see, like, right did I make a mistake? But like
otherwise, man, I don't have to
Adam Curry: realize well, and all, all props to Dr Scott. I
love the chapter work that he does on every single project I'm
involved in, and he does it for many other people. I appreciate
it so much, because I can go, Hey, what were we talking about?
And just go in, click, hit the hit the chapter. And I'm always
delighted when I see all the different images that he's
chosen for stuff, because, you know, there's, there's a lot of
easter eggs and funny stuff in in drebs chapters. And of
course, he gets a split of every project that I do for that, so
he feels appreciated. He gets value for the value he's
providing, and that part of the system works.
Dave Jones: I just realized that I didn't put true fans on this
Android phone. Oh, and I need to test it to see if they've
somehow gotten some kind of juice. Wouldn't
Adam Curry: surprise me, if anyone's figured it out, it's
it's the true fans crew. Oh yeah. True fans crew, sounds
like two Live Crew does? Live Crew, two fans. Crew, yeah, kind
of good. Just before we started, I saw that David from hyper
catcher, which, of course, yeah, what have you seen? This
Dave Jones: came back in with a vengeance. He sees me doing some
coding.
Adam Curry: What exactly does this do? It says podcast
mentions, right? Set keyword alerts for your favorite
podcasts and get notified when they are mentioned.
Dave Jones: Yeah. I mean, it sounds to me like a a way to to,
like, find topics mentioned in podcasts that you're interested
in. Like to get an alert.
Adam Curry: Let me see. So get started. Get started. Okay, for
free, for free, sign in with Google. Okay, nope. I like, I
like the logo, though, but I like his, his hyper gum logo.
I'll sign in with Google to free. So I think what he's
doing, choosing, oh, so, okay, so it costs my AI powered
analytics. Ai powered analytics basic support, five projects
limit access to basic AI tools. See what does this do? So if you
so you brand alerts. There's a lot going on here.
Dave Jones: I'm signing in with Google. I'm about to tell you
what it does. Okay, let's see. I
Adam Curry: mean, look, I like the idea for sure.
Dave Jones: Oh, check your mode. What?
Adam Curry: Oh, you gotta check your email for a code.
Dave Jones: Well, it's it's this. Now it's sending stuff to
my Android phone. This is gonna be
Adam Curry: a problem. So the keyword alerts for your favorite
podcast get notified when they are mentioned. So how is he
checking all podcasts for mentions? That's gotta be quite
the quite the job.
Dave Jones: I think he said he's not okay. I think he's somehow
he's doing it a different way. No, okay, so I logged in. It
says Search Credits Remaining too, and it says Search groups.
So I click Search groups, search podcasts. Okay, podcasting. It
Out of maybe, search, um, no, I didn't do anything. Okay, I
don't know what this is. I liked your search group name.
Adam Curry: I like hyper gum. I like the idea. I like the logo.
It's a piece of gum, basically like, like a gummy the hyper Oh
yeah,
Dave Jones: okay, here it is. So I searched pod news. Pod news
weekly review. So I'm gonna put that. Oh, okay, so you pod News
Daily. Uh, no agenda. Let me search for that so you can build
a group of podcasts, which is what I'm doing, a search group
named Dave's stuff. Enter a search term. Okay, Dave, all
right, so I'll search for myself.
Adam Curry: I think that's that's illegal in Alabama, isn't
Dave Jones: it? What it says you have insufficient search
credits. You
Adam Curry: got no credit, right for more credit. Give me credit.
Man, just give me credit. Give me some credit. Give me some
credit. Man, I need a credit. I need a credit. Man, please give
me some credits.
Dave Jones: But I see what it does, but I don't have any
credits.
Adam Curry: Okay, well, maybe we'll have David on soon. Dave
Norman on, well, he can explain what I do. Yeah, bring him on
the show in the board, in my book, yes, in your black book.
So I've identified, uh, something that's presenting to
be a problem. No, no, yeah, you may have seen some of these
emails go back and forth, so apparently, there are some
nefarious actors who are duplicating RSS feeds and and
then monetizing those by claiming those feeds. Since,
since their duplicate feed has their own email address in it,
they're duplicating it through various ways in order to get
value blocks into the database for feeds that are not theirs.
And I've had three or maybe five instances of this happening,
Dave Jones: and is it all coming from the same people?
Adam Curry: No, it doesn't appear to be coming from the
same people. It's not widespread, but it's, it's like
one of those things, like, ah. So you know, what typically
happens is, you know, you search for something, you see there's
three different feet, three different versions of a podcast.
And then there'll be an, of course, an a cast feed. And that
a cast feed will have a different email address in it.
And then they claim that, either through podcasts or wallet or, I
think probably the easiest way they're doing it is through
fountain, which is not, you know, Oscar and I have been in
touch. Now, in some cases, people think that that's
happened, but someone else on the team did it, you know. So
there's some, there's some discrepancy there, but it is
something we need to be on the lookout for. So, you know, feed
feed dupes that have value blocks is a bit of an issue.
Dave Jones: We could put some sort of some sort of alert in
where there's a if there's like a title collision, a brand new
feed with a title collision that has a value block. Maybe there
Adam Curry: you go. Throw flag on the play. Yeah, yellow card.
So the thing that that kind of bugged me is vigilante TV
appears to have done that.
Dave Jones: Well, I thought they were legit. Yes, what I thought,
Adam Curry: too. But someone reached out to me and said, This
is not legit.
Dave Jones: Isn't that? The Hive people? Aren't they a hive
group, I
Adam Curry: don't know. Let me see if I can find the email for
a second, because I was very disappointed by that van t let
me see lantee. Here we go. This was Hello. I recently switched
to a fully podcasting, 2.0 compliant act. I noticed
something. Couple of podcasts I listened to seem to have
lightning addresses listed for donations, but never mentioned
this or listed as a way to support the show is able to
confirm that one of them so far never set this up and doesn't
accept Bitcoin at all. Can you imagine? Lol, so apparently
someone is squatting on their listing. And so I looked at
this, yeah, vigilante.tv had basically taken this feed and
added, I mean, and they do interesting stuff, because they
add a whole bunch of 2.0 features. Alex
Dave Jones: says that's a peer tube instance that allows
uploads of random videos to comment on peer to. So this may
be somebody that went in and created a Rando using the
vigilante TV service, in pure tube instance, and created a
channel of that name and is now uploading the content just to
get a feed in there. By
Adam Curry: the way, shows have anchor, not a cast anchor.
Typically, I
Dave Jones: knew what you meant. Yeah, right. So this, this, this
may not be that this, this is probably not the vigilante TV
people themselves. This
Adam Curry: is people. Oh, okay, all right.
Dave Jones: We should probably, you know, I should probably, I
just sent myself a note so I could remember to put in a
couple of alerts in here. Okay, yeah, well, I'll start watching
for that, because that's not cool now, bastards.
Yeah, by the way, Franco responded my four I forwarded
him that that,
Adam Curry: yeah. What did. You say extortion letter, yeah.
Dave Jones: He says it looks very scammy to me. On their
website, they mention as a pod, as their partner is the Italian
podcasting Association. The President Giulio guadino
guardiano is a friend of mine and a good supporter of open
podcasting. Let me check with him and report back to you.
Okay, yeah. So be thinking, Well,
Adam Curry: I mean, so this literally went to my spam
folder. And not much goes to my spam folder, yeah, let me see it
was. Who were these Jim oaks? What was their name? Again?
Dave Jones: License sync, lice. License sync, yes, like all one
word like
Adam Curry: Amazon licensing, then dear podcast index team, we
are writing to follow up on our previous communications protocol
number 14, slash 23 and 13 slash 24 which is meaningless. And of
course, 24 Oh, my God, of course, I don't know what
protocol they're talking about, dated in 2023 in August 2024
regarding the request for the subscription and settlement of
the streaming and download license for the Italian Italian
cmo licensing administered podcast repertoire, distributed
via your platform, github.com, comma, podcast index.org, like,
okay, yeah,
Dave Jones: it's basically, and then they attach an invoice for
$7,000 yeah, come compliant, you know, yeah, yeah.
Adam Curry: The fact that it went to my spam is probably
because somebody marked it as such somewhere along the line.
Dave Jones: It's like things like this. It's like, well, you
know, this is, this is obviously bull crap. But then you you
always have to wonder, okay, is it enough to just tell them to
go away, or is it, or do we have to actually get a lawyer to
draft a threatening letter? Well,
Adam Curry: we have some, yeah, we have some lawyers who'd be
happy to draft a threatening letter.
Dave Jones: Yes, I'm like that. That's the only problem with
stuff like this, is you're like, come on, you know?
Adam Curry: Oh, well, it's what it is. It
Dave Jones: is, I have a note. James has had to fight this
battle. He's
Adam Curry: had several things like this happen to him, right?
Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah. One, one guy, I think, got pretty nasty before
they finally quit. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yeah. He's like, Oh, you're using this or that. So I
did get a note from salty crayon. I hate to do this to
you, but we should probably just go through it succinctly,
percentages versus shares in
Dave Jones: block splits, no, no. You want to push it off
again. What like, what,
Adam Curry: I don't know, percent. We just, can
Dave Jones: somebody just look, find the old, the old time that
we talked about it? We can just lay late, like the chapter and
episode number. It's
Adam Curry: probably a good idea. I think sir Dean Anonymous
is, is is doing a Bing? It.io for for podcasting 2.0 which
actually is not, it's clip genie.com Yeah, I think so.
Dave Jones: Clip genie.com was a product that,
Adam Curry: yeah, no, it's a product, yes.
Dave Jones: But is that what powers being? It not? Yes,
Adam Curry: yeah. Thank you. Clip powered by clip Genie,
exactly. So that would be, and what is this? Stephen B had a,
what was that transcripts? She had a transcript search. Well,
there's steno.fm, steno.fm,
Dave Jones: um, am
Adam Curry: okay. Well, here you go, podcasting 2.0 All right,
lot of broken images on that page. Okay, so splits. I'll just
do search splits. Let's see what?
Dave Jones: Oh, Lord, that's gonna come back with a billion
results. No, maybe episode 149, scrape my JSON. Is that it? No,
I just, I just thought that was a cool title
Adam Curry: percentage, let me say no,
Dave Jones: what would be a term that we would have used
discussing that that would be like rare pain,
Adam Curry: pain, pain, search for pain. No episodes found with
pain value. How about fees? Maybe fees
Dave Jones: respect the splits. Discuss this, splitting the tab,
splitting the tab, maybe that might have 91 that seems awfully
long ago, but maybe
Adam Curry: split splitting the tab. That's a standard.fm is
pretty as though it's now it's searching for stuff. We'll find
it here. We'll find it, we'll find it. We'll find it. We'll
put it out there for you. Salty crayon. Yeah,
Dave Jones: I mean, we, we spent, like, literally, an hour
talking about it. Yeah, we did. And when we lost half the half
the border, they killed. They never come back. They died. They
died. Yeah,
Adam Curry: all right, we want to talk about
Dave Jones: brother. Let's see. I've got, yeah, Daniel, I see
you trying to bait me in. I'm not taking that bait. Stop it.
Name. Let's see Alex.
Adam Curry: Well, Alex has worst episode to date, to be honest.
Well, could you just give us the episode number? If you remember,
it was the worst one. What was the number?
Dave Jones: Yeah, it stuck out in your head. And must be the
word you must know about.
Adam Curry: That's the one. That's the one we need.
Dave Jones: Let's see that. Well, I mean, you want to talk
about the the L, 402, stuff that Russell,
Adam Curry: yeah, yeah. I'm happy to see him working on
that.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Um, so, so Russell's trying to build
something around the idea of pay Walling, uh, content. And he's
settled on on the 402 method, the L 4o T,
Adam Curry: which I suggested as the l sat. I suggested look at l
sat. And this is something similar, but different.
Dave Jones: Same idea. Yeah. I mean, with l sat, you you
challenge with a you challenge the API call with a 402
response. And for HTTP status, 402
Adam Curry: is authentication required. It's a payment
required. Payment required. Okay, yeah.
Dave Jones: So you, you respond. So the idea is, you, you make a
call to an end point. So some HTTP endpoint, that endpoint,
that endpoint responds with a with a with a status code of
402, and then you you know that you have to make a payment in
order to retrieve the data from that end
Adam Curry: point. So they renamed it, l 402 l4 oh two.org.
Got it,
Dave Jones: yeah. L, which makes a lot more sense than LSAT, to
be honest. So Alex says maybe episode 146, the So, the, so,
the idea there is, is pretty straightforward. You You know,
you would, you can conceptualize this as you know, you would try
to download a an episode of a podcast, or an audio book, or
whatever this content is you would try to download the
enclosure. The CDN would respond with a 402 saying that you're
gonna have to pay for this to get it. Then you would make some
sort of payment, then request it again with the payment proof,
and you get and you get the content. Didn't
Adam Curry: Alex gates have something already worked out
with this proof of payment stuff? Yes,
Dave Jones: the JS the the JSON payment token, JpT idea in that,
and that's that work. That would work perfectly fine in this, in
this workflow, the issue he's trying to do, yeah, the JpT and
the issue he's trying to do, but, but Russell's trying to
solve this for Fiat as well. The the JpT is, it would work for
Fiat, but it's not going to be supported by like Apple and
Google and these Fiat payment platforms, the So the issue here
as described up until now in this this is a discussion 670,
on the GitHub. Yay. Is the the four, so the you, if you and I
heard James and Sam talk about this on pod news weekly review
today, but they still missed the big problem, which is, again, if
you pay, using, if you, if you pay in app for a digital
purchase, you must use in app purchase, or now, very recently,
you are allowed to kick out to a third party payment platform.
And I'm talking specifically about Apple here. I don't know
if I don't know about Google, I don't know. I've not heard of
them allowing this, but with Apple, you're allowed to kick
out too. You're allowed to have a link which will take you to a
third party payment platform, but then you have to do your own
bookkeeping, so you still owe Apple 30% of that digital
purchase, but you now have to record it and track how much you
owe and then send them a check.
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's a pretty big thing to miss.
Dave Jones: Well, it's, it's so you can so the ideal solution
and. This is what, and that's the way that Russell is dealing
with this. Is he's saying, Okay, I'll build a service that will
allow doing this with with a third party link out but, and
then I'm gonna and then I will do the book, build something
that does the bookkeeping, and then there will be payments that
are processed out to various parties at the end of the month.
So, this is a, I mean, this is, this is a, this is a payment
platform, bookkeeping service that is centralized to pod to
which there's, no, it's not a problem, but, but as
Adam Curry: far as you'll have to kick back the 30%
Dave Jones: Yeah, you got, you've got, you've got, I mean,
you've got to, you've got to do that. So the, you know, the the
ideal issue is, if we really would truly want to do this, if
we truly want to, and see, okay, this is not, and, by the way,
this is not how Spotify Open Access works. Spotify open
access, which is what this is all being compared to Spotify.
Open Access works through going and paying somewhere else for
content, something like through Patreon, and then just making an
OAuth connection back to that thing you paid for so that you
can listen to it in Spotify. Spotify the app is still not
allowed to do a in app payment flow that does not go through
it,
Adam Curry: right? So you still need the OAuth from the app
side, right? You're gonna
Dave Jones: have to go to a website or some other party, pay
for the content, then link it to Spotify through an OAuth
handshake that so, but what everybody wants is not that
Adam Curry: I understand what we want, but the rules of the of
the app road are just different.
Dave Jones: They are and so, you know what? What everybody wants
is an in app payment flow where it's just kind of like but, and
you're done, and that's so, but in order to so the only way that
I can imagine that that works is in a seamless way. Is if the RSS
feed returns a 402 and a 402 can include a response body, some
some HTTP statuses. The spec says that they don't that
they're just a status code. They don't have a body. The 402 can
have a body. So if we can return the body, the 402 body with in
app purchase specifics about how to do it. Okay, so here's this
for Apple, this for Google, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Okay, so you'd have maybe a, maybe return a JSON object that
includes Apple Pay or in app, Apple in app information, Google
Pay in app information, and then lightning and something else.
Adam Curry: That point isn't easy just to build in the Apple
Pay and Google Pay. SDK, I mean, you're going to pay for it
anyway. You're going to pay the 30% anyway. That's
Dave Jones: what I'm saying. If that's exactly what you just
read my you're Yes, that's what I'm saying. If you have, if
you're having to do all this and still pay 30% then it's better
to just have it as an in app purchase. Yeah, and don't and
forget all the bookkeeping and record keeping and all that
stuff. So if we could return something that has, uh, every
possible payment method in it, and then the apps can choose
what they support. So if, if cast O Matic tries to play an
enclosed download an enclosure, and it gets a 402 back, it can
throw up a message to the user saying, you know, we only
support Apple Pay, because that's their restriction that
they're have, that they have to abide by on as being an app in
the App Store. So we only here's, here's your what do you
hear? Here you go in app, purchase so, and you would tap
it, do your thing, and go, Okay, that that doesn't affect value
for value at all, because V for V is, is a separate flow, right?
You know you, you can't. So what I'm you know that to me, that's
the way forward here is we need to in we need to the feed needs
to provide, excuse me, the 402, needs to provide back the
information needed in order to make payment right. And it could
even, it could even make, you know, send back to payment like
a here's a payment for the content, and then here's a
payment for going to the app. So, like, there would be some
percentage of payment going to the app. So the decisions, you
said the app could pay itself, or something like that as a sort
of kind of pseudo split. It. So anyway, that's okay. Do you see?
Adam Curry: Yeah, no, I'm with you. It seems like a lot of work
for something that you could do in a different manner. What
Dave Jones: is and that's the problem with the app stores.
Adam Curry: So we need more lawyers,
Dave Jones: because, because if, if James is, you know, James is
saying, Well, you could do all this with stripe, but you can't.
It's, and this is what we talked about last week. It's, this is
not a tech problem. This is a politics problem, right? And,
well, let me take that back. You can, but it's, it's, it's
intense, apples, apples, policies are intentionally
difficult, so that nobody will do it right. You're now, you're
now by by law or not law, but by by by policy, you are
technically allowed. But who's gonna do all that? Right? And,
and, and Russell's saying, Well, I volunteer. I'll, I'll do it,
but then it's centralized around pod two. But, you know, I mean,
if we, if we can make it just an in app purchase, then just in
that purchase, it just works. It just works. Yeah, okay. The
problem is, I just don't know how to do that. No, like, I
don't know what information is required to make an in app
purchase. In that way, somebody who's got a lot of Apple app
experience would need to tell us. I don't
Adam Curry: think we need to go much further than we need to
spend time on other things.
Dave Jones: I don't mind. I love the idea. I love the idea of
enabling this, because you think about it, you could give back.
You could give back if you're returning a payment, an object,
if you're returning a JSON object with various options for
payment. One of them could be bolt 11, and you could make your
payment and enable content of the content download, right? But
Adam Curry: you still need to keep your books and pay 30% to
Apple.
Dave Jones: No, I'm talking to so, no, I'm talking about like,
I'm talking about so things off platform. So I'm saying like, if
you, if you always return all your options. Then the the app
can choose the specifics that are best for it. So then it can
say, Okay, well, I'm an Apple app. I have to use Apple in app.
Purchase. I'm an Android app. I have to use Google and purchase.
I gotcha, I'm curio caster. I can use lightning, right, right,
right. So I'm going to choose both, both 11 or I'm fountains
website, I'll use bolt 11, or I'm true fans, right?
Adam Curry: It becomes a lot easier when you're not an app,
right,
Dave Jones: right? Yeah, yes. Nathan says Spotify is getting
around this by never mentioning or leak linking how to pay for
open access shows, yes, it's exactly right, right?
Adam Curry: You don't do that in the in the in the in the content
itself,
Dave Jones: right? And they don't take a cut the the that's
part of the rules in the App Store policies. Up until
recently, you were not allowed to even
Adam Curry: Whoa. Boost. Thanks. Tim F received what he's got
three boobs. It's a three. Boom, boost. Oh my.
Dave Jones: Up until recently, you were not allowed to even say
in the app that there was an alternative payment method.
Yeah,
Adam Curry: this is so lame. Yep, and
Dave Jones: I want to do this. I want to make it happen, but we
got to do it in a way that makes sense. You need to
Adam Curry: do that on your own time, Dave, because I'm falling
asleep.
Dave Jones: Okay,
Unknown: move on. Phase eight.
Dave Jones: What you got? Big man. Hey,
Adam Curry: listen, big man, I got phase eight. I see that
you're you got a plan. You got a plan for phase eight. Can we
want to hit the hit the hot name space for a minute here. Just do
a little bit of a little bit of hot name space.
Unknown: Please hit it all right. Hello, Jennifer, and now
it's time for some hot name space talk. Yes.
Adam Curry: I'm awake now. Hot name space, hot.
Dave Jones: You really, you really dug out that? Yes,
because it
Adam Curry: was real. Man, yeah, I like me some hot name space
talk on a Friday.
Unknown: Dig it out. Digging it
out.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So James, location tag changes,
Adam Curry: yeah, this is good. This is, I mean, he fought it
for years, and now he's relented. He's given in. He's
given in to optional ways to use the tag.
Dave Jones: Okay, he's melted into the void. Yes, so here's
what, here's what I'm thinking for phase eight. These. I think
these should be fairly straightforward. He said James's
location tag changes consist of the following, and these are
enhancements to the existing location tag. Change to location
tag. He wants to add a rail attribute. So that's like short
for relationship, a rail attribute to say, Okay, this
location is what is it telling me? Is it telling me this thing
is about the location, or this is where the podcast is made,
Adam Curry: right? This was the big question, yeah, yep,
Dave Jones: yep, and I'm and then he's got another, another
proposal, where he's sort of pre calculating the, what you might
call the the relevance of the location, so that you don't have
to so that makes it easier for the apps to ingest it. So this,
it's already got all this sort of like relevance data about,
you know, these things are in this location or around this
area, and then, and then the last change is just having
multiple allowing multiple locations per episode, okay? So,
you know, you could imagine if maybe an episode is about, you
know, the Eiffel Tower and the, what's that? What's that real
polluted river? Which one the sand? Yes, yeah, maybe it's
about the the sand and the and the the Eiffel Tower. So you put
both of them in there, the stinky River and the in the I
did not know this. Did you did you know? And maybe, I'm sure
you probably did. I did not notice this until recently, that
the Eiffel Tower was created for the World's Fair. Yes, I
Adam Curry: did know that. Actually, I had no idea. Yeah,
it was like the 1889 or something. Yeah, sure. Yeah,
that was cool. Well, they
Dave Jones: had the stuff
Adam Curry: back at the world fairs. I mean, they don't do
those anymore. Do they the world's fairs? No,
Dave Jones: but that, like, I read this. Do you know the book
Devil in the White City? No, I don't just finished reading that
about three weeks ago. Great book about the world, the
Chicago World's Fair of 1893 and man, that's those things were
nuts. Well,
Adam Curry: I remember in New York, which, of course, was
featured in Men in Black. They had the all those structures out
there near the airport, which was also the site of one of
those early world fairs. Sir bemro says, Seattle Space Needle
was also built for one of the world's fairs. That was cool.
Dave Jones: That was cool. Ferris Wheel. The Ferris Ferris
was created as part of the World's
Adam Curry: Fair, and now all we have when it comes stuff like
that is house of the future. Yeah, home of the future. I've
been to those. It's such a scam. I know James went to one, and
where was it? He was one of his travels. He was he wrote a piece
about it. And they're always a scam, because they had one in
the Netherlands, home of the future, and all it is is just
Phillips and, you know, and Braun and all these other home
goods companies who just put their concept models into this
home. Oh, you can have this in the future. It's just an it's an
ad. It's an ad.
Dave Jones: It's gonna, it's just all refrigerators. They're
gonna order your milk for you and stuff
Adam Curry: like one day, baby, one day, one day, one day. It's
gonna happen. I know it's gonna happen. All of a sudden, my
refrigerator will know that I'm out of milk, will automatically
order it, and the man will come in and put it right in my
fridge, right where it belongs.
Dave Jones: Pfeiffer, the Ferris wheel at Six Flags St Louis is
not the one from the World's Fair. That is fake news. Fake
News. The ones from the one from the World's Fair was exploded
with dynamite after the st Louis World's Fair. Awesome. Why
dynamite? I had no idea. Why not, but that's how you rolled
in 1903,
Adam Curry: did somebody say, boom. They're like, what
Dave Jones: are we going to do with this thing? Absolutely,
Adam Curry: so that. So what else is in a is that it for
eight No,
Dave Jones: no, there's also Nathan's follow tag. Ah, yes,
Adam Curry: explain the follow tag again.
Dave Jones: Well, I've got a I've got so I've got a couple
comments, though. So Nathan's follow tag is just a way to is a
way to list out all the various places that a podcast can be
found on these different platforms. Yes, and the So
originally it was, let me read. It's kind
Adam Curry: of an outgrowth of episodes.fm or comes from the
same Yeah. So. Same feeling, same vibe, Yeah, same
Dave Jones: same milieu, million you gotta get along, yeah?
Matching feeds to their corresponding URLs and third
party podcast apps can be tricky. The follow tag would
allow podcasters to verify their presence on various platforms by
providing an array of URLs and linked in a linked JSON file.
This is particularly useful for locating shows on platforms with
no public lookup method, or identifying shows with common
names, like real talk in platforms that only provide a
search API. And so this is originally it was in XML, so it
was all this would have gone into the feed, you know, yes,
Adam Curry: I remember this, yeah, yeah. Then now it's an
external JSON,
Dave Jones: yeah, and that's, that's what I that's what I
think is, that's what I think is the problem here that. So I
understand why he did it. He based it on feedback, saying
from hosting companies, saying that, well, that's gonna bloat
the feed a lot, and we're sensitive to feed size because
of bandwidth costs and that kind of thing. To
Adam Curry: feed bloat, feed below. I like this term feed
bloat,
Dave Jones: and which is understandable, but there's a
couple of things I just want to talk about around this. And I
think, I think Daniel J Lewis was right, because, I mean, he
Unknown: said, what
Dave Jones: he said? He said, we've not talking about, talking
about whether, you know, like bloating the feed with stuff. He
said we've not consistently followed that logic. For
example, wallet switching is in the feed instead of episode
metadata, Jason, where it logically belongs with chapters.
And I think, I think he's right that the So, for instance, pod
love chapters are now in the feed or in the XML. So basically
we have, we originally kept chapters out of the XML because
it would have bloated the XML. No, that's
Adam Curry: not. The reason why. Why? The reason why is for
community based chapters so that you can have external chapter
creation apps that can be done outside of publishing or
republishing the feed.
Dave Jones: Oh, I'm sorry, What? What? You're right, what? What
is the what's the other one that has a transcript? Yeah,
transcript. That's that one is originally was, was in a
separate file to keep it from bloating the XML,
Adam Curry: but it's still in a separate file. No, it is, yeah.
It is, yeah.
Dave Jones: But what I'm saying is, like, we some things. So my
example of pod love chapters that's originally people hosting
companies did not want to put that in their feed because it
bloated the feed. Would rather have it in a separate file, but
now, because Spotify supports pod love chapters, everybody
starts putting pod love chapters in the XML, yes. So I think
Daniels ride that the logic is not, it's like it's not being
followed consistently. That's that's one thing. You know, we
can't tell hosting companies what to I mean their their costs
and their, their sensitivities, things like that. Those belong
to them, and they have to make those decisions. But, but it
does seem to be inconsistent, and I know I never know when
it's okay and when it's not right. But that leads to this
other thing, which is, which is, well,
Adam Curry: if I may, I would say that feed bloat is also
important for podcast app developers who, in many cases do
parse a feed. And you know, if you're choking on five feeds
that are, you know, 20 megs, because there's all kinds of
stuff in it, I can see where that could possibly create
problems.
Dave Jones: Oh, for sure, yeah, for sure. And yeah. And Nathan
says he the difference. And this is what I was going to talk
about. Nathan the you know, you have two separate you kind of,
they kind of have two separate feature concepts here. Some
things are are you can just think about this and say, Okay,
this is a feature that would be in every single feed, like title
or description or image, things that are going to be in every
single feed. It doesn't really make sense to have that in a
separate file, but for things that are just, that are never,
that are going to be sort of selective enhancements to a
feed, those do make more sense in a separate file. But, you
know, like, and I understand that's a little bit backwards,
because you would think, well, things that are going to be in
every single file, you. Those are going to cause feed bloat.
So you may what not want to put it in there, but if they're
going to be in every single file, and now you're going to
generate two downloads. And so it doesn't really matter if it's
in the feed or not, you're still paying, you're still paying the
bandwidth, right, right? So if it's, if it's an item of of
almost universal desire,
Adam Curry: item of universal desire. Look at that girl. Look
at that girl over there. She's an item of universal desire.
Dave Jones: This is odd name space time. So if it's like, if
it's like a universal want, where you can imagine, and
that's what this is like. You can imagine that every platform
is going to want to see this data, because it tells them
where all the I mean, like, pod page. Pod page wants this. Yeah,
they're going to grab that data from every feed that has it.
They're going to want every link, pod news, us. Everybody's
gonna want this data. So you're, if you're a host and you're
gonna provide the follow information, you're gonna be
serving that data, whether it's in a separate file, or wherever
there's in the feed. You're gonna, you're gonna be sending
it. So at that point, having it in a separate file is kind of an
un makes it unnecessarily complicated. Yes,
Adam Curry: yes, I'm with you. Affirmative, Captain, I Yes, I'm
with you. So
Dave Jones: that's, you know, that's fine. That's why, that's
why it seems to make me ultimately, if that, you know,
it's whatever I don't, you know, I'm not gonna die on that hill.
If, if everybody, if the hosting company, I mean,
Adam Curry: it's really not that huge. I mean, when it comes to
the follow stuff, it's pretty limited in scope.
Dave Jones: I don't think it would be much bigger than
chapters, right?
Adam Curry: Well, but, you know, again, chapters, the reason for
chapters is for external editing purposes. No,
Dave Jones: no, I'm talking about pod love chapters, the
ones that are in the XML. Um,
Adam Curry: no, no, yeah, not real. It's not like a
transcript. It's not, it's not. I mean, look, I'm You're right.
I'm sure that they, the hosting companies, look at everything
because of bandwidth, but whether you're pulling it off
their server as an external file or in the feed. I don't really,
I don't really see that as a difference in the bandwidth,
because it's still, you're still serving it. I'm looking at it
more from the aggregation side. It's like just a little bit of
extra data.
Dave Jones: I mean, initially, initially, you're going to have
probably not very much, like, if you, if you left it out of the
feed, when the when you first implement it, if you leave it in
a separate file, you are going to save bandwidth, yeah. But
over time, as people start realizing this data is there and
start downloading it, then stuff will happen with it. You're just
not gonna say. I don't think you're gonna see much savings.
No, I don't know. Well, I
Adam Curry: like that. I like this is a good tag. I like it,
but I think it's a good tag.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I will ask for
Adam Curry: valid, ask
Dave Jones: for more feedback. Valid tag. I've, I've declared
this ballot.
Adam Curry: Let's take a breather. Sure I have this is a
great track. This is from Texas boy. In fact, he's right down
the road in Austin, Texas, and I think we were trying to get him
for the boost to Grand Ball live December 16. I'm not sure if
that's gonna happen or not. And I played this one on boosted
Graham ball, a new booster grand ball this Wednesday, one o'clock
central time. This is Abel James. This is the Voodoo Queen
on podcasting 2.0 remember to boost and let me know about
Unknown: every bedroom. We're the Voodoo queen. This cold
sweat is clinging to my bones. She's like Tiger. It gr
and I'm trembling because I know she's sharpening her claws.
Lord, I can't escape this tangle If she eats. No, no, I used to
laugh. Used to laugh at magic, but now I do believe
my eyes are red and my body wakes up bruised and blue, she
can't be tamed. There's nothing I can do when she's standing up.
That witch is bruised, Lord, I can't escape this tangle where
she breathes.
Me now, I do believe now,
well, I sail a bedroom where the Voodoo Queen just cold, swear
you clinging to my bones. She's like tigress, and I'm trembling
because I know she's shopping at Her claw Lord, I can't escape.
Just Tama with now,
laugh at magic. Now I do booze. You Believe now I Do believe.
Adam Curry: Dance. Abel James voodoo Queen podcast in 2.0 and
just like any any boardroom when the band's on stage, everybody's
mulling around talking to each other. Hey, man, why don't we
offload that to pod ping, we can do this. We can do this. You
guys are not even paying attention to the band. The band
is feeling bad.
Dave Jones: No, I was, it does. It counts, though, that I was
like jamming while I was as
Adam Curry: long as you were playing air guitar, it's okay.
Dave Jones: Air drums. What is the, by the way, what is the
etiquette? The texting etiquette around, like, when you reply to
somebody around, like, Ha versus haha, versus hahaha, like, is it
is Ha is just, if somebody says something funny and that you
just say, Huh, oh, okay,
Adam Curry: here's, here's how I look at it. Okay, if I'm
surprised because someone made a remark that was like, wow, okay,
you, you pointed something out to me that's ha, capital H, and
then a, lowercase a, exclamation mark, ha, ha. Now, now I now,
instead of doing an LOL, if I'm really happy about something,
then it's a hahaha, I've added that to my dictionary, actually,
so I can type in just a couple of has, and then it
automatically auto corrects. Usually no exclamation mark.
Dave Jones: This makes sense to me, because sometimes I will
send you something and you will come back with a with, like, an
A nine character string, hahaha, with an exclamation point, and
it's super fast. I'm like, I know you didn't have time to
type that,
Adam Curry: especially not on my cat s 22 which is still my daily
driving jam, baby. I love this phone. I love it.
Dave Jones: I'm like that thing has real buttons. You can't tell
you can't hammer that out real fast.
Adam Curry: It's a great phone. It's a great phone.
Dave Jones: Nobody uses Rafflecopter anymore, by the
way,
Adam Curry: okay, Boomer, no, no one uses that. No one uses that
anymore. Thank you, Dr Scott, for boosting. Abel James, by the
way, Suzanne Santo is onboarded, I think, into a value for value.
Oh, nice. Yeah,
Dave Jones: you, uh, you played her. I think you were the first
one to play her. I think you played her.
Adam Curry: I've been, I've been working her for two years,
trying to get working. Like, come on, girl, come on, get it
together. Uh, yeah. Open Mic is, uh, he's the one organizing this
whole. A antones thing. So I'm just the MC slash host. You want
Dave Jones: to talk quickly about the, about the nasty API
bug that that I fixed, yeah,
Adam Curry: yes, that would be good one, because, I mean, yes,
it was a nasty bug, a nasty bug.
Dave Jones: So Adam alerted me that one of the, one of the that
he was getting a random episode from, from just a he was getting
an episode, he was getting an episode from a Rando podcast.
Rando, yes, just and I was like, he was like, okay, it
Adam Curry: wasn't even a good podcast. It was some wonky
podcast. It was not the right, no,
Dave Jones: it was dumb. It was dumb. And so he's like, Well, I
added these podcasts to my collection here, and and, and it
all looks fine, except I keep getting this random this episode
from a random podcast that I've never heard of before, and the
podcast was delight, the life of JB,
Adam Curry: die, life of JB. Exactly. How does this even
happen? Yeah,
Dave Jones: l, y, F, E, of, J, J, a, y, b, like, oh, like,
okay, so I started looking in. The first thing that popped out
to me was that the the feed ID in the in podcast index for this
feed was 25,000 to 25 000, mmm. Now, now that's a suspiciously
round number, yes
Adam Curry: for a Rando podcast. Oh, what are we drinking?
Dave Jones: Oh, this is a montane grapefruit, peach,
sparkling water.
Adam Curry: You're gonna die so early.
Dave Jones: This is zero calories or no sugar.
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, natural flavors, yeah, all natural Yeah.
All natural flavors, which is code for chemical
Dave Jones: the No, it's m, O N, T, A, N, E. So I'm like, okay,
25,000 that's pretty unlikely, right? So start look at what the
the end point that I was using to get these episodes was the
episodes by feed ID, using the new using the new parameter on
the end of newest. So if you tack newest onto the end of that
call, what you can do is you can give it an array of feed ID of
podcast IDs. So let's say you say you could give it like five
podcast IDs, and then you can also give it a max parameter. So
I was like, I want no more than this many episodes returned. And
then you can give it the newest unary operator, and it will and
that will just give you the the max number that you specified,
newest episodes from this, from this array of podcast IDs. And
so I start looking through this. I isolated it to it was a
problem on the index. So then I start digging through this end
point, and what I figured out was, and everybody, this is
going to make sense to everybody. So SQL, when you do
SQL queries on when you do SQL queries, you you don't you use
what's called bound parameters. So what you do is you would say
something like this. You would say like, select, select from
episodes where ID equal question mark, max equal question or
limit equal question mark. So that was that. And so then you
would go back later, and you would do what's called binding
those the values to the statement. So later, you would
fill in those question marks with the values that you're
actually going to use. And what it does, what this does is it
prevents SQL injection attacks, because bound parameters are not
x i hate. I knew you. I know you do. Bound parameters are not
executed as SQL code their own. They're only allowed to be
values. So this is a, this is a fundamentally, this is a
fundamental security thing that everyone has to do. You have to
use bound parameters. Yes, exactly. No. Bobby Tables, the
so what? And so it should be clear now probably to what's
happening here. I got the order of the bound parameters wrong,
so that the max parameter, which I was calculating as 25,000 was.
The first parameter in the list and the feed ID array was all
the rest of them, right? So that's why it was giving 25,000
it was interpreting that as one of the feed IDs to return, and
then it was just chopping off the last value from the array.
So I was, I was never getting curry in the keeper, because it
thought that was the, the max parameter and so, but I was
getting the life of JB, yeah, exactly. So this was, this has
been a bug in the index, evident for about, I think for about two
months.
Adam Curry: Oh, only a month. Okay, is because
Dave Jones: that's a fairly new parameter anyway, so, yeah,
nasty bug. As
Adam Curry: as we've learned, my whole existence in life is to
break things that Dave built.
Dave Jones: And you're and you do that so well, I
Unknown: mean, like you, it's amazing.
Dave Jones: I don't know how you do it.
Adam Curry: It's why there's two of us, brothers. It's one of
your magical abilities. That's my superpower. Before we thank
some people. I did just want to ask you, since I kind of have I
tuned out from the thread a little bit, what is the problem
with comic strip bloggers, podcast, not updating? Can we
help this man?
Dave Jones: What is it? Did it happen again? I
Adam Curry: don't know. It's always like, I mean, he's using
some, what is he, I'm sure he's using some free host somewhere.
Dave Jones: Well, he's using red circle. And they use, they
Adam Curry: use pod ping, pod thing, yeah, because he's like,
Oh, it's like, I have 15 episodes on red circle, but only
12 in the index. You suck. That's, I mean, not literally
saying that. But he always comes across that way.
Dave Jones: He didn't put it through a chat, CSB to calm that
down at all.
Adam Curry: That's just my I just hear him that way. So that
could just be all on me. But it seems like, yeah, yeah, comic
should. Blog has a podcast. We records nature sounds, his
lightning and stuff and thunder.
Dave Jones: He says, Is it unreliability of ping pong that
can only do so bad.
Adam Curry: I said, when I read I'm like, What can we help this
man? Is there anything we can do?
Dave Jones: I don't understand why that's happening, I really
don't, I'm, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to dig in.
Adam Curry: Has he somehow been automatically de prioritized in
the index parsing system?
Dave Jones: Not that I know of. I mean, well,
Adam Curry: look at that's something wrong with the ping
Dave Jones: pong, all of the, all of the feeds from pod ping
enabled hosts. They're all deep power test, and they don't pull
right. We just wait for the problem with, I
Adam Curry: think red circle is if he uploads things too fast,
or maybe they're not, they're not pod, they're not ping
ponging enough. Seems like they don't seem to slurp the things.
Slurp,
Dave Jones: yeah, that's, that's, uh, Brian of London's
thing where you can look up a feed URL to see how many like
when it's been pod pinged or ping pong. From
Adam Curry: now on, his ping pong, ping pong and pod ping
Hello, oh.
Dave Jones: Eric PP just got the boost bot to ping it, so make
sure there's crap flying around. I don't even know what's going
on at the time. I didn't know you could even do that from
boost, but nonsense. It's
Adam Curry: amazing. It's amazing. All right, we got to
wrap this up. All right, thanking a few people who
boosted in live. 12345, from Dr Scott for voodoo queen. Great
tune heard on Friday. 11 slash one episode. 199 podcasting. 2.0
podcast with Adam curry and Dave Jones. Yes, we still don't have
all podcast apps sending off that information, which would be
great so that, so that someone knows that this was a boost for
for a certain song. 1776 freedom boost from salty crayon. Howdy
boardroom. I got nothing. Have a great weekend in the pipe. And
then we got to the pipe. Three boob boosts from Tim f we got
333. From salty crayon. He says, lol, no worries. He'll look for
it this weekend. So we've figured out that the fees
discussion was in episode 120. Splits versus fees, and that is
in the show notes. So it's linked right there if you want
to go listen to that. D's, laughs, 1000 SATs. Shout out to
all the garbage supporters from Canada, political boost. Triple
seven from Mike Newman. Oh, that was just a test boost for the
boost spot, and I've hit the delimiter, so you're good to go,
Dave.
Dave Jones: We do. We have no one. We have no monthly or,
excuse me, one offs on the pay pals, but we do have some. I'll
just go ahead and read the monthlies, and I'll read the
boot the boost. The monthlies are. Cameron rose, thank you,
Cameron. $25 nice drab. Scott $15 thank you. Dr, Thank you,
Chris, uh, Chris Bernard, Dick, $5 uh. Michael Kimmerer $5.33
Pedro gun calvis $5 Kevin Bay $5 and Chad Farrow, $20.22
Adam Curry: row of ducks and thank you. Those Sustaining
monthly donations. Those are really important. Those are
great. You know, it adds up. It adds up, it really does Yes,
thank you so much.
Dave Jones: Oh, Franco, just emailed me back a more extensive
thing. Oh, okay, I'll forward this to you.
Adam Curry: We're going to jail. All right, Italian jail. Italian
jail.
Dave Jones: See you guys later. Let's see. Let me sort my thing
here. Okay, but boo. Boost from curry, 8008. 808. From fountain.
He says, I'm back. Baby, nice, surprisingly, normally,
surprisingly normal sized Brazilian booties and pretty New
Zealand landscapes had me distracted for a while. Is the
secret project on? Okay, let's see, is the secret project an
app dedicated to your favorite person ever, Rachel Maddow,
thank you everyone.
Adam Curry: Close, close. Even more favorite than Rachel
Maddow, which is
Dave Jones: hard to do. Yes, thank you everyone for all your
hard work. Thank you curry. Thank
Adam Curry: you Chiron. Good to hear from you brother, glad
you're okay. Glad you, uh, you extracted yourself from
Brazilian booty.
Dave Jones: He's got Chiron is a fun guy to hang out with. He's
got some great stories. I'll bet Chad F 3333 to pod verse, he
says, re listening to see what I missed since I had a heart
attack during this episode, what Chad f are you for real? Is that
for real? You just kidding? You're gonna have to. You're
gonna have to,
Adam Curry: yeah. Are you alright?
Dave Jones: Yeah? Me freaked Yeah. Freaked out. Don't
Adam Curry: make jokes about this man chat, if his typing. I
can see that in my in my you
Dave Jones: can see when he's typing, yes, yeah. Oh, sat
boost,
Adam Curry: yeah, oh yeah. That was interesting. So he did send
a million SATs by accident. He fat fingered it, but his Alby
hub restricted that to 50,000 so I still got the TLV record in my
helipad, which said, Here's because I get 1% split for the
so I can get the live boost. So it still came through as a
million, but the payments basically didn't go out because
of the restriction on Albie hub, which is a good thing and
protect You're saved by I would have refunded you, Brother, no
worries. But I'm glad, glad you got saved.
Dave Jones: Yeah, comes your blogger, the delimiter, 22,000
SATs. Speak of the devil fountain. He says, howdy Adam
and Dave, today, I invite your audience to the podcast. The
podcast gauntlet hosts Mike Wilkerson and Brian insminger
Throw down. Discuss Rise and shine in podcasting. Join Mike
and Brian as they uncover the Art and Science of Successful
podcasting with real world tips, tech insights and cultural deep
dives. Perfect, perfect for aspiring and seasoned podcasters
eager to create captivating content and grow their shows,
tune in and step up your podcasting game. Yo. CSP,
Adam Curry: what is the name of his podcast? Again, I want to
promote CSB podcast. Let
Dave Jones: me see, it's honestly kind of generic, and I
forget, Oh, hold on, we
Adam Curry: should be able to find that. See, CSB
Dave Jones: made it. Let me see, I think it's kind of a generic
name, like, uh, great stuff, or something like that,
Adam Curry: great stuff, or what
Dave Jones: it's like, something like that. You know, he doesn't
really real talk.
Adam Curry: He doesn't he that's funny. He doesn't have it in his
in his profile, or anything. What is know it? I've
Dave Jones: pinged it so many times.
Adam Curry: What is the name of that show? Comic, sort of
blogger, hmm, okay.
Dave Jones: CS Oh, it's a CSB field. Is the name of CSB?
Adam Curry: Well, hold on a second. Let's go check it out.
CSB field, because it's field recordings. Let's see what he
has here. CSB field recordings, let's listen to the most recent
episode.
Dave Jones: Recording part podcast by CSB, rain
Adam Curry: drapes the Iberian plains anew. Silver drops adorn
the morning dew as chat GPT palm trees sway beneath the gentle
rain, nature song unfolds across the terrain. Oh, I gotta pee
real bad. Now
Dave Jones: it's killing me.
Adam Curry: That's it's an interesting idea for a podcast.
And now, here's winds of Iberia. Oh, cool. And there's Iberia.
Now, here is his neighbor's drill. I. A
Dave Jones: boost garbage there's one of a garbage truck.
Oh,
Adam Curry: this isn't a garbage truck.
You can hear moving the mic too. That's great. It's great. That's
what podcasting is all about, baby. I'm telling you, that's
fantastic. I love it. I love it.
Dave Jones: I don't understand why it's not updating, though.
Adam Curry: He has high priority now, on the on the bug, on the
bug list, we'll ping pong the pod ping and figure it out.
Brother, we'll take care
Dave Jones: of somebody just ping pong him in the boost. But
Ellie, like three times a day, somebody be on call.
Adam Curry: All right. Brother, Dave, we'll be back next week.
No,
Dave Jones: no, we will not. Oh, I am gonna be gone Friday.
Adam Curry: Can I ask what you're doing? I
Dave Jones: will be in the forest in the me and my son are
going backpacking.
Adam Curry: Oh, can you, can you record some sounds as a special
episode for CSB?
Dave Jones: I will. I'll send it to him as a field recording.
Excellent. It's gonna be, it's gonna be the new, like, it's in
the sipsy wilderness, which is in North Alabama. It's, it's
like tons of of audio potential. So I will send you the field
recording. Okay,
Adam Curry: thank you very much. Boardroom. Thank you for being
here. Itbr in the boardroom. We'll be back in two weeks with
another episode of podcasting 2.0 Have a great weekend. Dave,
so cool. You
Unknown: podcasts are cool. Do you hope you have been listening
to podcasting to point oh, visit podcast index.org for more
information.
Adam Curry: Go podcasting. We like pork in the morning. You.