Podcasting 2.0 for November 15, 2024, episode
200, subcubits.
Well, hello, everybody, we made it.
We made it to our 200th anniversary.
Welcome to Podcasting 2.0. We are the
only boardroom that develops election changing technologies.
That's right.
Go visit any other boardroom.
They can't do it.
We're going to discuss everything going on with
podcasting's past, future, and present.
I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the
man who never clutches his pearls.
He just hates it.
Say hello to my friend on the other
end, the one, the only Mr. Dave Jones.
Okay, this computer does suck.
I agree with you.
I relent.
I just tried to resize a window in
Unity and it's like, I wish you could
see what this is.
What is Unity?
That's, uh, oh, that's the Ubuntu, the latest
Ubuntu.
Well, I just called Ubuntu.
They called it Unity.
Well, it's, it's the, it's their UI, their
windowing system.
Let me see if I can take a
video of this nonsense.
For the show notes.
Carefully take a screenshot.
It might automatically reboot.
This is, this is what I'm currently seeing.
Let me see if I can send you
this.
So wait a minute.
Is this going to hamper the, uh, the
rest of the, uh, of the program or
do we have to, do we have to,
no, I'm a professional.
I can, I can cope.
Oh, you're, you're a pro podcaster right here.
That's wonderful.
It's good to be back with everybody in
the boardroom to those checking in live.
We are live and lit as all, well,
not always on Fridays, almost every Friday.
Um, we, we took a week off last
week.
I said, Dave went to hunting for bear.
I went, uh, yes.
Scat retrieval in the, uh, in the forest.
What is this?
What is, what is, what is going on
with you?
Oh my God.
Oh, you're screaming.
Yeah.
That looks like a video driver issue.
I know.
No, no, no.
The issue at the end of that clip,
I think the issue is that ball of
spaghetti behind your screen.
Oh, oh, all the work.
You don't understand how little desk space I
have to work with.
I wonder why my video was all fuzzy,
dude.
You've got, it must have 18 roll.
I can see ethernet.
I see the, what is that a VGA
adapter just hanging loose.
Yeah, that's a naughty.
That was not even being used.
It's just a standby.
It's a, it's a hot, it's a hot
cable in case I need to do a
hot swap.
Yeah.
A hot swap.
Is that a VGA?
What is that?
Oh, I've got every, I got one of
everything back there.
This, the debt, the depth of this desk
is only from my middle fingertip to, to
let, it doesn't even go to my elbow,
to my elbow.
It's less than a cubit.
That's a proper cubit.
Yes.
In the, if we're, if we're using a
Noah arc metrics, this is less than one
cubit.
It's sub cubit.
Got it.
Yeah.
So I have zero room on this thing
and there's a, there's a UPS behind it.
Let me ask you though, in this, in
this house where you live, um, so you
have less than a cubit of desk space.
Does Melissa by any chance have a nice
closet?
She has two art studios.
And I have a, I have sub, I'm
left with sub cubitness.
Yeah.
Sub cubit.
Yeah.
I know how that goes.
I have, so we have a nice, a
nice walk-in closet.
I have one of the short sides.
It's a rectangle.
So I have one little short side and
the rest is not my domain.
No, no.
You get, you only get what's necessary for
your, for you.
Or what is deemed necessary for you.
Deemed.
Yes.
You don't get an actual say in anything.
You're not in the board meeting that have,
they're not in the meeting.
Oh, I'm sorry.
We're celebrating.
We are celebrating episode number 200 of the
boardroom.
We are now, yes, we are in our
fourth year.
Will this be our fourth or fifth year?
We're in our fifth year.
Fifth year.
We started in 2020.
So, right.
So that's one, two, three, four.
Yeah.
We're in our fifth year.
Wow.
Let me blow the horn.
Blow it again.
Yeah, that's good.
It's good, man.
It's good.
Well, and look at what we've achieved.
Everybody look at what we have achieved.
It's amazing.
Hey, the boost bot, the boost bot is
a functioning.
Look what we've achieved.
We've achieved, uh, Albi hub is Albi, a
hosted wallet is shutting down.
And so we're going to have to like
recreate everything from scratch.
That's what we've achieved.
Good work, everybody.
Yeah.
We could start there.
Um, I got that email.
Yeah.
I just saw the email myself.
So, uh, and that's January 5th, if I'm
correct, everybody has to either move to Albi
hub, which costs 10,000 sats a month.
So that's about nine bucks at their current
prices, which is worse.
It's actually, it's actually worse than that though,
because it says that's the price for three
months.
And then it, and then it goes to
25,000.
Oh, it's an introductory what is an introductory
25.
Yeah.
Oh, that's too much.
That was what I, that was what I
saw this morning.
Let me, let me get back in.
That seems too much.
Um, I mean, maybe they haven't adjusted for
the recent run in sats and the recent
Bitcoin crazy run.
Okay.
Hmm.
Oh my gosh.
This captcha, this captcha is so bad.
Please click on the character that is not
used for counting or writing words.
Uh, dog, parrot, which whose has this captcha.
What captcha is this?
It's on Albi.
Okay.
I got, I got through it.
I got through it.
Uh, log code.
I was just going to, I was going
to try to just make sure that, well,
the bottom line is, you know, we have
to move towards, um, towards the, the proposed
solution.
And, uh, we just have to, we have
to do it.
We have to move forward.
Otherwise, um, you know, it just gets more
painful.
What, what is your understanding of the proposed
solution?
My understanding is somehow we created a, an
OAuth to strike and everybody's happy.
Right.
But it works with fountain and it works
with, uh, other things without 10,500 sets
a month for three, three months intro offer.
Then it goes to 21,000.
Yeah.
That's, that's, that's a lot of money.
I mean, what's 21,000 cents?
About 19 bucks a month currently.
Yeah.
Goodness gracious.
That's pretty expensive.
That's more than a, and do you get
liquidity with that or you have to open
a channel then as well?
Yeah, you get, yeah, you get liquidity.
You get all that.
I mean, that's.
Yeah.
So that's just a no, that's a non
-starter.
So we need, we need to, we need
to get this OAuth thing with the strike
fixed, but what, what will it take?
And Oscar, I know Oscar's busy, so I'm
not blaming him for not coming through, but
I'm not blaming him for not coming through,
dropping the ball, dropping the ball.
I mean, it's like a bowling ball on
my foot, but no, it's okay.
Not, not blaming him, not blaming him, not
blaming him.
Hey, by the way, there's Sam Sethi.
Thank God true fans wallet is free and
you get sets when you join.
That's true.
Yeah, it's absolutely true.
It's absolutely true.
So someone's got to, someone's got to make
a move here.
That's all I can say.
I can't do it.
I wish I could.
It's going to have to be, it's going
to have to be a bigger, I mean
like for the hosted wallet stuff, it's going
to have to be a bigger solution.
It's going to have to be somebody like
strike because it just can't like the smaller,
the smaller entities like Ellen pay and Albie,
they just, they're not, they, I loved him.
I love the guys at Albie, but they
just, they, they're, they don't have the staying
power, like the stability of pricing and the
stability of like just being around to do
it.
This necessary.
Yeah.
So just briefly then it was going to
be bolt 11 invoices.
Was that it?
If I can't really remember exactly, it's been
a while.
Yeah.
Just, I mean, just dropping in the strike
API.
Let's just make that work.
If we can make that work and if
it can send the payments and my node
can receive it without too much hassle.
I'll, I'll do it.
I'll make, I'll make the demo.
Dave is not busy enough.
I know this for a fact.
I know you, you have so much time
and December is a very slow month for
you, so it's going to be great.
It's going to be great.
Yeah.
I feel like, I feel like if I
spent 72 hours, 72 hours is just Mike
knowing you, I think 72 hours.
Three.
Yeah.
Three days.
A weekend plus a Monday.
I, I, I agree with cotton gin.
I think I should step aside for the
enthusiasm you're exuding at this moment.
It is slapping me in the face like
a, like a wet salmon.
It is beautiful.
Oh yeah.
I like a wet salmon.
Yeah.
The, uh, it, I don't, I don't want
to do it just because I'm so busy
with this other project, but I, but I
feel like it's gonna, their, their, their documentation
is pretty good.
Uh, and like their, their, um, developer docs
are pretty good.
So I feel, I feel like it's just,
I don't know.
I don't, I don't think it's going to
be a monumental task to just come up
with some demo code, uh, like a little
test site that shows how to do it.
I'll rub your feet while you're doing it.
I'll do anything you want.
You know, me, I just, I don't have
any capability.
I'm frustrated by it.
You know, it's like, uh, yeah, I was
trying Pearl the other day and I just
hated it so much.
Pearl.
Oh, don't get me up.
Please don't get me started.
Where were you using Pearl?
Uh, we, it's, we get production code, this
at the office.
It's, it's, it's just one of the, like
Pearl is just the worst language ever.
Is that something you developed years ago and
it's still in your life?
Yeah.
It's, you know, it's for reporting.
And so it's not really user facing stuff.
You know, it's all just sort of like,
um, it never touches a human being other
than me.
Yeah.
And that's where most, I mean, these days
that's where most Pearl lives.
Cause it's actually very good at reporting.
It's great.
It takes manipulation, but the problem is I
only deal with it like once or twice
a year.
And by the time I get back around
to making some adjustments to it, I've completely
forgotten how to, I had to relearn Pearl
from scratch all over again.
Um, it's got these, the worst thing about
it is it's got these hidden variables.
So if you're in, like, if you're in
like a for loop or a while loop
or something like that, it sets all these
hidden variables that only exist inside the loop.
And so there's like, there's a lot of
just unspoken things that Pearl, like, you know,
what's that website?
It's like Pearl gurus or something like that.
Let me check my bookmarks.
Pearl Monks.
That's it.
Pearl Monks.
Yeah.
The big Pearl website is called Pearl Monks,
like M O N K.
And that's true.
It's, it's like you have to, sometimes it's
so arcane.
You have to like walk up the thousand
stairs to the top of the mountain and
ask one of the wise men, Hey sir,
how do I, uh, how do I assign
a multidimensional hash?
Well, you have to use this, uh, it's
like, uh, it's just too much.
It's too, they wave some incense around you
and then hold on a second.
We have to, we have to, we have
to bless you before you can complete this
task.
Yes.
Now, however, I'll work, I'll work on the
strike.
Well, you're, you're a beautiful man.
Thank you.
Do you smell what I smell in the
air?
Uh, I smell cashews right now.
I smell freedom.
The free, I smell freedom in the air
somehow.
I'm walking outside something after this election, something
feels different.
Have you interacted with other human beings outside
of your home and office?
Uh, no more than usual.
It just feels like, feels like something's in
the air.
People like they're, they're a little more optimistic
in general.
I feel like it was a, uh, yeah,
we haven't talked since the election cause that
was, no, we haven't.
I'm sorry.
I feel bad for you that your candidate
lost.
I really do.
I mean, there's some people like there's some
people that, uh, are very upset, very, very
upset.
Yeah.
Um, and, and I mean, that's in those
feelings are real.
Yeah.
Feelings are absolutely real.
The, the, I mean, we, you want to
do a on the podcast election?
Well, I have a clip.
Do you think his appearance on Joe Rogan's
popular podcast helped cement him with this new
coalition of Republican voters?
This is CBS news.
Well, if we're thinking about that coalition is
containing young white men under 30, it also
contains a young Latino men and young black
men, but it, but he did particularly well
among young white voters under 30.
I think it's Joe Rogan.
I think it's all the podcasts that he
went on and his general aspect and response
to kind of the norms and the fussiness
of elites and, um, and you know, experts
and all of that, which has been his
thorough message for years.
2008 was the YouTube election, right?
And the blog election, this was clearly the
podcast.
And by fussiness of the leads, do you
mean fact-checking by people who do what
we do for a living?
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, that's, um, absolutely, you know, and
thank you for the clarification, Mark.
It's an important point.
Who's this guy?
Who's the guy?
I don't know.
Some, some Jamoke CBS news guy.
Consumer put it right in your vein, messaging,
whatever you want to say.
Right.
I mean, there used to be, you had
to clear a threshold of, you know, 60
minutes.
He, he didn't do 60 minutes, but he
did the podcast that fed right into this
constituency.
I can so remember occurring George W.
Bush, who, who would say, you guys are
just the filter.
Donald Trump has found a way to surpass
the filter.
And as you said, just get directly into
the veins of his supporters.
So I do want to remind, that's a
great impression.
This is a reminder of this is a
over a year ago, Robert F.
Kennedy Jr. said the following.
If I talked about what I was thinking
about, it would have, I would have been
deplatformed.
But once Elon took over, I started, you
know, they, they, they unshackled me.
And, um, but also I think this is
going to be this year is going to
be the political campaign that will be decided
on by podcasts.
And particularly because the candidates are not wanting
to debate.
So I'm not only not, not only is
Biden not debating, but I think Trump may
not debate.
Um, and, uh, um, so I think people
like me are going to end up going
to, are going to, you know, we're going
to really test whether these podcasts and, you
know, I was talking about.
So I would love to spike the ball
here.
I would love to be going around.
Yeah, podcasting did it.
I'll, I would say we get 60%
credits because the, a lot of the, now
I wish I had the numbers.
Nobody has the numbers.
Nobody really knows.
I know a lot of people listen to
Joe Rogan, to the audio podcasts.
There's the, uh, without a doubt, the YouTube
video, which was hard to search for initially,
which it should be the writing on the
wall for everybody.
If you remember when he did the, the,
uh, the podcast with Trump.
Yeah.
I experienced that too.
Cause I did, I I'm not subscribed to
Rogan.
So I went, but I didn't want to
see that sit down.
I wanted to see all the candidates being
interviewed.
And so I went to, and, and I
went, tried to search for it and I
couldn't find the full, all I found was
clips.
I couldn't find the full episode until I,
until I went and I, I forgot what,
I forgot what magic phrase I used to
finally find it, but it was not, you
know, if you just put in Rogan, Trump
interview or whatever, you did not come back.
So that should be the writing on the
wall.
And you just said it without sub subconsciously,
you said, I wanted to see all the
candidates.
And I think that this was much more
a, um, more about video.
And I'm sure that most people watch Trump,
JD Vance, um, uh, Kamala Harris on call
her daddy.
I'm sure that was much more of a
visual experience.
It's interesting though, because, uh, Joe texted me,
I'm sorry, let me pick up that name.
I just dropped on the floor.
I was going to let that pass, but
go ahead.
And he said, so he said something very
kind.
Let me look it up.
What was it?
He said, America is back.
Thanks to your invention.
I'm like, okay, I saved America.
It was bad.
It was like, nah, thanks Joe.
Um, but we're in a very, very interesting
place.
And I know you have, uh, and I
know the clips you have, uh, because we've
talked about them and I want to get
to those, but I think these are new
clips, but they're new to this.
Okay.
I mean, you've, you've heard parts of them,
but I've clipped them differently.
Okay.
Um, what is happening now is very dangerous.
Uh, I mean, ultimately I'm not worried about
podcasting because we have RSS feeds, RSS feeds
are not going away.
They are indestructible.
They are part of the underpinnings of the
internet.
Uh, they're created automatically by too many systems.
We have, um, you know, we have podcast
index.
We still have other indices around that rely
on RSS and there's plenty of, uh, of
podcasting to go around.
But when I heard the most recent Spotify
announcement and I have the interpretation by the,
uh, the tech journalists at KTLA in Los
Angeles, we're, we're headed for some interesting times
when it comes to what is podcasting and
what does it do and how does it
remain true to its form of, we don't
need transmitters.
We don't need platforms.
We need an RSS feed.
Listen to this.
Uh, first let's start with Spotify.
Take an aim at YouTube.
They want to be the place where you
watch video podcasts.
The company held their annual now playing event
and announced two big moves.
First, it will start paying podcast creators who
get lots of views and it will let
paying subscribers watch.
I just got to stop right there.
So just listen to the interpretation.
First, it will pay podcasters lots of money
to money to get lots of views.
Huh?
Cart before the horse.
It will start paying podcast creators who get
lots of views.
Oh, who get lots of views?
Okay.
Well, uh, this still, and it will let
paying subscribers watch video podcasts without ads, but
keep in mind that does not include what's
called host reads.
Those are the ads that hosts read themselves
that are built into the shows.
Now, according to Edison research, YouTube is the
top place for podcasts with 31% of
weekly listeners.
Spotify has 20.
Listen, I'm, I'm baffled by this reporting.
YouTube is the pot top place for podcasts
with 30% of listeners.
So he's mixing all these metaphors with 31
% of weekly listeners.
Spotify has 27% Apple podcasts.
Surprised to me, 15% share video podcasts
are particularly popular and continue to grow cheap
production.
Yeah.
That's exactly what it's all about.
Yeah.
It's all about cheap production.
Well, that's not what it's all about, but
from my understanding from the reporting and I
haven't did his weekly review not come out
yet.
I didn't see it.
I don't know.
I didn't have time to look for it
from, from the, from the daily, which is
very soft-spoken by James, who's in Los
Angeles airport.
I guess he's worried about offending people in
the airport.
Is he in the skiff again or whatever
that thing is, whatever that was called.
No, it is the skiff.
He's in the skiff no matter what it
is.
He's in the skiff from now on.
James is in the skiff.
We already know that if you upload a
video version of your podcast to Spotify, it
replaces what is in your feed is no
longer correlated to your feed.
And now from, I understand just from cursory
reading the way they're going to be offering
APIs, presumably to hosting companies to upload your
video to Spotify, which will come as far
as I can see, will completely disconnected from
your RSS feed.
And that's my understanding too.
And so two things, first of all, when
will Spotify learn their lesson?
You are stupid.
It doesn't work when you try to be
the walled garden.
It just, you're not going to be YouTube.
There's just no way you're not going to
be the YouTube of podcasts.
So I don't understand how they can make
this mistake again.
And on the other hand, I'm kind of
like good riddance, like, all right, everybody go
over there and do whatever you think is
going to work.
And video, podcasting is now video and it's
on Spotify that will give free reign for
the audio people and people who do video
in their feeds to just continue on our
happy way.
But it's a, it's, they're about to confuse
things even more than Rob can do.
Uh, no, no disrespect, Rob Greenlee.
I think, uh, uh, you caught me off
guard with that.
Uh, I think this is all about an,
an ad, an advert, an advertising play sort
of in reverse.
So like the, what I thought was good
coverage was, uh, Ashley Carmen's newsletter.
She went into some detail about this and
gave some, some kind of link, a little
bit more lengthy quotes from people who were
at this presentation.
And what Spotify was saying is, um, I've
got, let's see, I've got one of their,
got one of their quotes here.
It says, uh, as part of his presentation,
Spotify characterized advertisements as a pain point for
his subscribers.
Soderstrom, I think that's the guy in charge
of, uh, of this whole thing said the
company found that podcasts increasingly include more ads
during a three month period ads first accounted
for on average 8% of a podcast
length.
And then that jumped to about 11%.
And he says, quote, now extrapolate that over
a few years.
It's not going to be good.
He said, so this just keeps increasing in,
in this weaker podcast ad economy we're in
right now, it's not about to get any
better unquote.
Um, and so like, and he went on
to say, and I don't, I didn't get
that quote out of it, but he went
on to say that when people that basically
YouTube is just an advertising, uh, mud hole,
if you don't subscribe to YouTube, it's almost
unwatchable.
It is a, it is a, it is
five mid rolls, a pre-roll a post
role.
They take over the screen and it is,
it's awful.
So they, it's become basically just a cesspool
of, of in your face, unskippable ads.
And that we, you know, we had, we
had this, um, I don't remember what clip
that was, but we had a clip of
a guy talking about this on, I think
it was like CNBC maybe five months ago.
And what he was saying is everybody does
this.
They hover over the skip button waiting for
the ad timer to hit so they can
hit, skip it.
Like, that's, that's what they do on YouTube.
And it feels like, so what, what Spotify
said was they're going to give video, uh,
video streamers, I'm not going to call them
podcasters because that's not what this is.
He's going to give, they're going to give
video streamers a cut of the ad revenue.
If they use Spotify's built-in insert ad
insertion tools, or they're going to give, and
they're going to give them a cut of
subscription revenue.
If they don't, if they use, if they
just are hit certain thresholds for watching for
watch time for like eyeballs.
So if you hit a certain amount of
minutes of eyeballs over the course of some
time window, you get, you get a payout
of some sort.
And that's going to, that payout is going
to come from their premium subscribers.
So this feels like what they're trying to
do is take advantage of the fact that
YouTube is a complete dump, an ad dumpster
fire and say, Hey, come look, come watch
your stuff over here because you already pay
for Spotify or you can upgrade to premium
and you can get all this stuff.
You get all this music, you get all
this kind of stuff for free and you
get no ads on the videos.
Like, and I just don't know that that,
because if number one, I don't, I don't
think that's, that's just a walled garden strategy.
I don't think it's going to work out.
But the bigger thing is I think that
this is indicative of what we've been talking
about for a while, or at least I
have that, that advertising is not enough to
make these companies profitable.
You're correct.
And I'll, and I'll back you up on
that assertion by looking at what all the
streamers are doing, specifically Amazon, you pay for
prime.
Now you get prime and you're getting ads.
You have to pay even more.
If you want to remove those ads, everybody
is running with an ad strategy.
Wall street is saying, Oh, this is great,
but they have to.
So they need both a subscription and advertising
in order to make the economics work.
Yeah.
Which is very unfriendly.
And, and, and I'll, I'll, uh, Sam Sethi
boosted in, he says, uh, James is flying
pod news weekly review.
We'll drop shortly.
Well, I hope, I hope he lands before
it drops.
Also, when will some of the $60 billion
of political TV advertising money spent during the
election?
I don't think it was 60 billion, but,
uh, become the way of podcasting.
Well, yes, of course, this will be a
big part of the strategy for 2026 and
2024 in the United States.
And it's going to suck because you're going
to have just, you're going to be riddled
with crappy political ads and it's going to
be very tempting for, um, podcasters, video streamers,
whatever you want to call them, uh, to
take the money and do whatever is necessary
for the money.
The objective nature of media is going to
diminish very, very quickly with that.
Well, here's an article from ad week from
four days ago.
It says as Amazon's revenue and stock price
continue to climb, the company is pulling back
between January and August.
Amazon cut its core retail business us ad
spend about 20% equivalent to $700 million
compared to the same time in 2023, according
to estimates from the market.
So, so Amazon in an election year cut
its ad spend by 20%, $700 million is
almost as big as the entire podcast.
Supposedly.
Yeah.
So yeah, supposedly, I mean, this is, this
tells you where advertising is going.
If you are a, if you're a pure
advertising based business, the life is going to
get increasingly more difficult because like when we've
seen this, you know, this list sort of
leads into some of this, uh, on the
media stuff, but we've, we've seen that seeing
like CNN cut starting cuts, they're, they're, they're
doing, they're starting with them at CNN mass
layoffs.
Well, MSNBC, they're talking about selling it.
There's a little nuance there, uh, which is
partially due to the streaming mania and yes,
I will say podcasts.
And that is because people are cutting the
cord on cable.
Cable became too expensive.
And, uh, any cable news station, all cable
stations.
And I have these numbers.
I know what the numbers are.
They get carriage fees.
So if, which is equivalent to a Spotify
premium subscriber, correct.
Correct.
Only you as a customer of cable don't
really see that price directly.
You pay, if you have ESPN and you
probably have ESPN just because you have to
have it, they build it into the package.
Um, it's $7 a month from, of your
bill goes to Disney for ESPN.
And, um, they got really greedy.
Um, you know, the cable price, especially when
they bundled an internet just went up and
up.
And then they did exactly what iTunes did
to the music business.
They unbundled the album.
So I'll just buy a track and everyone's
going like, well, you know, I want to
put my own bundle together and the economics
don't work.
And so people are just saying, no, you
know what?
I'm just going to subscription, hop around and
get whatever I want, which is also going
to stop.
Trust me.
They're going to stop that, that business, uh,
that you can just subscribe for a month
and then unsubscribe.
They're going to make, they're going to make
it difficult for you to do that.
Um, people don't want, you'll have to do
an annual or something.
And it's insane.
People don't want bundles.
And now you're seeing NPR, I'm leading into
your package here.
They are literally now advertising the NPR plus
bundle.
It's like they're reinventing cable for themselves.
It's so stupid.
It is, it is a, yeah, that is
a reinvention of cable because you, even the
most diehard NPR listener probably only listens to
two or three shows.
Exactly.
And you don't want the other, you don't
want to pay for the other 12 that
you don't listen to.
Which is why podcasting is so grand, you
know, and not all podcasting is out there
to make money.
That makes broadcasting even more beautiful.
People just do a podcast cause they want
to do a podcast.
The C like CNN, the MSNBC and all
these, um, these cable news networks that are
having trouble, the, this, and I mean the
broadcast TV as well, ABC, CBS, the, the,
the amount of money these anchors make is
outrageous.
Yeah.
I mean, I thought, I think if Chris
Wallace was like 8 million a year, 7
million.
Yeah.
Uh, Anderson Cooper, 20, 20 million dollars.
Well, this is what they say.
You never really know.
Um, there's a 7 million for Chris Wallace,
6 million for Aaron Burnett and 3 million
for Caitlin, Caitlin, whatever her last name is,
the new girl.
I want to talk to her agent.
I mean, to be honest about it, no
agenda is like, yeah, we're all in.
Okay.
So does this sound like you, you love
no agendas podcast.
You wish you could get more of your
favorite show and you want to support no
agendas mission to create the best podcast in
the universe.
If all of that sounds appealing and it's
time to sign up for the no agenda
plus bundle, just send your cash.
I love the, uh, the Silicon Valley pitch
music.
That's great.
No agenda plus bundle.
This is, uh, yeah, we were, see that
we were told that this was good.
We were told that this was going to
be the podcast or it was the podcast
election.
But the thing is nobody said why it
was the podcast election.
Um, yes.
I mean, I didn't really say, I mean,
I know why it's the podcast election, uh,
or whatever you want to call it was
the non mainstream media celebrity election.
That's what it was.
And so first of all, celebrities have no
power.
No one cares about them anymore.
The whole industry is sold out.
The gossip industry used to be gossiping about
the entertainment industry and celebrities.
They sold out to movie tickets by creating
fake divorces and fake romances to, to sell
movie tickets or concert tickets.
The, the, the rest of the entertainment industry
sold out to the fashion industry.
Who are you wearing?
This is beautiful.
Go stand in front of our three 60
cam.
Who are you wearing?
So the whole thing is people don't care
anymore.
And the, the, the linear nature of 24
hour, uh, programming based upon a 60 minute
clock with 18 to 20 minutes of advertising
where you have to have a pre-interview,
the questions are known, the jokes are built
in.
It's all phony and fake.
And so what people want, which has been
proven by Joe Rogan and others, they want
to just see two people talking for an
hour or two or three or whatever.
That's how you get a sense of someone.
You get a sense of what someone's personality
is like.
You can form an opinion.
That's what people want.
And the nature of linear broadcasting just doesn't
have that.
So I want to, I want to, I
brought clips of, uh, on the media's post
-mortem of the election.
This was the, the episode title of this
episode was the day after.
Yes.
This is where they, it wasn't, was this
the one where they just talked?
It wasn't a produced episode.
They were just talking.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
And I will have to say I learned
more about Brooke and Micah in this 30
minute zoom chat.
Then I, then I have all the hundreds
of episodes that I've listened to them.
I mean, this, this is my hate listen.
So I've, I've heard many hours of this
show.
Um, and, and I learned more about this,
this, in this non-produced piece than I
ever knew before.
And, and it was interesting.
And I was actually, I was, it's one
of my favorites, maybe my favorite episode they've
ever done.
And, um, at first they, so they're, they're
talking about the election about like, well, you
know, basically just a post-mortem.
Well, first of all, the shock, the shell
shocked as most of the mainstream media was
shell shocked.
They could not believe that after excoriating a
candidate, uh, and having all the celebrities on
one side and calling him a racist or
rapist, a misogynist, the dictator ripping up the
constitution on day one, do I need to
go on?
Uh, they could not believe that the American
people voted for him.
They were, they were all prepared to be,
you know, for another January six and, uh,
another insurrection and more lawsuits and the, the
accusations of, uh, a rigged election.
They were, they were prepared for that.
Like they were prepared for when, you know,
everyone knew the queen was going to die.
They had all their packages ready.
You know, we're good to go.
We're, we're mainstream.
We're set.
We know what's going to happen.
Yeah.
And they, they even said that and that
they were like, well, I guess we don't
need to do that show about the contested
election and lawyers and stuff.
No, I guess, I guess not.
And they were literally on the show saying
like, uh, Oh, what do we do?
What kind of show are we going to
do this week?
We don't even know.
We've got to throw it.
We've got to call an audible.
What are we doing?
Call it 42.
So then at first they seem to get
it.
It's like they, it sounds like they get
it, but if you dig in and you
listen close, they absolutely do not get it.
So the, this first clip is they're basically,
they're like their first crack at what went
wrong was people just didn't hear the facts.
There's something going on that those of us
on the coasts don't understand.
And I can't help, but feel it all
boils down in the end to the bubbles
we're all in.
And the fact that the, that a great
many Americans aren't familiar with the facts.
Okay.
Now, now that's where you said it's like
you, you, okay.
Disadmission that they're in a bubble and you're
like, well, yeah, you are in a bubble
and that you, it gives you the sense
that they, okay, they get it, but that's
not really what they mean.
What, the more I listened to this, what
I, I began to understand that what they
mean by bubble is that is they're not,
they're not critiquing their own, their, their own,
their own font.
Yeah.
They're not critiquing their own content.
What they're saying is that people didn't hear
their content.
They, so their, their use of the word
fact is an example of them like missing
the heart of the real problem.
Like those fact checks didn't help the media
at all.
No, they didn't help.
They didn't help anything.
It just made them look even more biased
because of how many times the fact checks
turned out to be wrong.
Um, I mean, if I, if I never
hear the term fact check again in my
life, it will be a wonderful thing, but
it's just, it got to be so crazy.
Um, it's like, and I want to say
like the, the, well, clip two is, is
another, essentially another version of this, where they
say that the reporting didn't reach people.
You said that there are obviously some, uh,
there are many Americans who don't know the
facts that have been reported repeatedly by the
media, the fact checks, the, the questions about
Trump's policies, reporting on his last administration, all
of that seems to either have been memory
hold or not reached people.
Memory hold.
That's interesting.
You know, he's, he's directly referencing the 2016
era of the first Trump presidency and saying,
you know, uh, we look, we gave you
the facts we get, you know, we gave
you everything.
Everybody, people must not be hearing them with
when the reality is people are hearing them.
They just don't believe you.
Like it's, it's not an assessment of the
quality of their content.
They think that their reach has been diminished.
Yes.
People aren't actually listening to their words.
Yes.
The, they need to, they need more power
on the transmitter, right?
More Watts.
And, and, but the real issue is no,
people are hearing you.
You've just damaged your own credibility to such
an extent that people don't trust you anymore.
Um, like instead of like, it's like, I'm
giving you a fact and you're just, you're
not acting on this information.
You're, you're, you're not, you're not behaving.
You're doing it wrong.
You're holding it wrong.
It's like, is there, say it's like, look,
we, we fact-checked RFK jr and showed
you he's an anti-vax, he's an anti
-vaxxer.
What, what?
And then, you know, and then, and then
RFK jr goes on Rogan and explains that
he really wants safe vaccines, which is not
the same as an anti-vaxxer.
And then there's also, and he, and I
think also there's an air, um, um, uh,
an issue here where we're in a postmodern
postmodernism is the culture is the air we
breathe, whether, you know, whether we think it's
correct or not, we don't get to choose
the sort of milieu of the day that
we live in.
Right.
And we do live in a postmodern world
and we live, and that means there is,
it's not so much about truth anymore.
Even if, even if that was true about
RFK, which I don't, you know, I don't
think it is, but even if it was,
you also listen to a speech he gives
and he says something like this.
He says, America is a war culture and
it's tearing us apart.
Yay.
You hear, so you have these two things.
Now you have this.
So on the one hand you say you
have this person telling you that, Hey, he's,
he's anti-vaxxers, he's anti-vaccine.
And then you have him saying, America has
imported war into our daily life and it's
tearing us up, it's tearing families apart and
we have to stop.
Now, which one of those two things is
more motivating to a person?
Right.
When people hear him say that lamenting how
torn our culture is, it resonates because we
all have relationships in our lives that have
been ruined by like this vituperative left-right
thinking that's just infiltrated our every part of
our life and we all hate it.
And so that is going to meet the
more powerful motivation there.
People don't live their lives in like a
clinical analysis of facts.
We live our lives almost entirely on two
principles, meaningful work and loving relationships.
Those two things are what create the fabric
of life that we, that we want.
And if one of, or both of those
things are threatened, facts really don't matter.
Backseat.
Yeah.
Um, it's like news guard, news guards going
all in on this thing.
I don't know if you've seen this.
Let me see if I can grab the
link.
Oh, what are they doing now?
So they've got this thing called an RFK
junior health killer, healthcare claims depository.
Let me paste this.
This is where they're going to, this is
where they're going to fact check RFK junior
to death during the Trump administration.
And so this is basically this, they carved
out a whole section of their sub stack
where they're going to put all of the
RFK junior disinfo going forward.
And, and I'll put my, all my cards
on the table.
I voted for RFK in this election.
I've read, I've read two of his books.
I've listened to hours of interviews and speeches.
Nothing on that list makes a lick of
difference to me.
I do not care.
You can give me facts all day long,
but you are smart enough to make your
own decision based upon the things that you
sought out and investigated.
Right.
My, I made my decision based on, I
listened to him speak and I get the
overwhelming sense that he cares deeply about fixing
the chronic disease and health problems in this
country.
Right.
That's what matters.
That list I could get, I could care
less.
You can throw it in the trash.
And so like they, they do not understand
any of this, but like, and so they
go even further.
So, so Micah digs in and clip three
and ask what, ask Brooke's opinion of, of
what the issue is.
And I guess Brooke, does that just mean
that the media is fundamentally broken?
I think the media delivery system has a
great deal wrong with it.
The delivery system?
Whoa.
They think that, again, they think the issue
is that people outside of their ideological bubble,
bubble aren't hearing their voices.
No, they hear you.
They just don't believe you.
This is like an extension of the idea
that if we just ban, ban all of
the like wrong thing, like I mean, Russia
today, sub stackers, the, if we just ban
all these wrong thinkers, then people will hear
them more clearly and make better decisions.
But that's not the way this works.
And so she follows it up with she
follows it up with her opinion in clip
two.
And I think probably the mainstream or legacy
media or wherever you want to fit us
in still has a comprehension problem.
We keep trying to understand.
I remember when Bush was elected and there
were a lot of evangelicals in that case.
The first time we were going, wow, this
was happening beneath the service.
We didn't even know, but we should have
known this time.
And we still don't know.
I don't know.
Wait a minute.
Is she saying evangelicals did it?
Is it the Christians, the Christian nationalists, the
crypto fascist Christian nationalists?
Well, I think here's where we find out
that and broker Democrats.
No, I'm shocked, which is fine.
It's fine for them to be that there's
nothing wrong with that.
But we, but that's a low reason I'm
bringing it up is that that's another indication
of the problem here is we, we, we
have this sort of like suspicion of their
political leanings based on the way they do
their show.
Oh, they're just flat out about it now.
Yeah.
But they don't, we didn't.
Yeah.
We never actually get sort of a confirmation
of that until we hear them sort of
quote off the record.
Yeah.
And that's the way traditional media operates.
They operate on this sort of like fake
arms length, dispassionate view of the world.
You know, Hey, we're not telling you how
to vote.
We're just telling you that Trump's literally Hitler.
Yes.
And then I'll, I'll say on top of
that, that was the entire business model of
Fox news was to create the exact, the,
the, an exact copy of this on the
other side of the political spectrum, which I
feel is commercially a great idea, but it's
hurt us because everybody gets into it.
Look at them liberal tears, lives, libtards, which
is just very bad.
I think, I mean, that was the whole
point of Matt Ivey's book, hate incorporated is
that this is the American model.
It's the American business model.
We've talked about this.
Yeah.
Monetizing the extreme ends of the political spectrum
or it tears you apart.
So, you know, news guard has, this is
one of their criteria is do you clearly
delineate between news and opinion?
Like that's one of the like elements of
the score that they give you.
No one, no one does that.
Well, like the New York times or the
Washington post or my dad, they'll label, they'll
label a, an editorial piece as an editor.
Okay.
Do you see what I mean?
Like, yeah, sure.
It's fake.
It's a fake thing because we all, we
all know, I mean, the Trump Russia gate
thing of 2016 that lasted years and turned
out to be a complete hoax was reported
as hard news every single day for three
years.
Yeah.
The opinion, the opinion of the reporter always
seeps through.
It's just that podcasts don't pretend that it
doesn't like good point.
Rogan doesn't Rogan doesn't sit down and say,
you know, and act like he doesn't have
an opinion.
No, he, he, he gives his opinion.
Sometimes he holds back, but this past year
he's been very quick.
I mean, he was pretty much a, a
liberal, a Democrat.
Yeah.
Bernie guy.
Yeah, for sure.
And a lot, he liked, he liked, he
liked what Sanders had to say for sure.
Well, I mean, like if you listen to
a pod news weekly review, James and Sam,
they tell you the news headlines of the
week, but they also give you their actual
opinion and what they think.
And here's the crazy thing.
I still love and like them.
Absolutely.
I have so much more respect for a
person that will do that.
Yeah, of course.
If, if broken Micah would come out and
just say, here's, here's our opinion.
Here's where we stand that I would have
so much more respect for them.
And I would trust them more because I
would have a better mental sort of like
framework of, of what's going on with this
thing I'm listening to.
And I might actually learn something or it
might, it might actually give me something to
think about.
I read so much stuff that I did
from like, quote, the other side of whatever
position I take.
And that it's, I've, come to see this
sort of like dispassionate arm's length news reporting
is just sort of a farce, you know,
just, just, just treat, let's all just treat
each other like adults and we can handle
it, you know?
So the, so then Micah says, what in
clip five, he says, well, what, what is
it?
What did we not know?
I guess I'm, I'm, I'm confused because a
lot of the debates that we had on
the show were about whether journalists took the
threat of Donald Trump seriously and conveyed it
clearly.
We weren't talking so much about reaching people
who had tuned out the media.
I mean, right.
That's almost a separate topic altogether.
I don't, I don't know that it is
Micah.
I mean, I think it's the same topic.
Who are you conveying this stuff clearly to?
The entire nation, hopefully, but of course we
know we don't speak to the entire nation.
No one does anymore.
So we do a damn fine job of
talking to ourselves.
You see that that's again, this, this is
this theme here of they think people aren't
hearing them.
Um, and, and it finally hit me when,
when they were talking at some point of,
of the way this works, it's, it's messaging.
It's not, um, so they, they sort of
package up a message and then send it
to the audience.
It's not a dialogue.
Right.
And podcasting is much more interactive in that
regard.
Much more in, in the messaging model, you're
just creating a package and you're sending it
out.
You're telling the audience what to think.
You'll never understand why people's people exhibit the
behaviors they do, whether it's voting or anything
else.
You'll never understand why, if you don't listen
to them.
It's interesting.
Bemros or Bemros in the boardroom says, you
know, the word, uh, Dave's looking for is
propaganda, but it's not these people actually believe
what they're saying.
I don't think they're being paid by any
government to say this.
So by definition, it's not propaganda.
What are we drinking?
Show beer.
This is a polar orange vanilla.
It's amazing.
The, uh, as I'm listening to this, I'm
realizing that Spotify is going to have a
very interesting time when they start basing, because
they're still going to be basing a lot
of their revenue on advertising.
They've built up the department.
Uh, they're going to run into the same
issues they did during COVID particularly with Rogan.
They held strong on that and I have
respect for them, but they're going to start,
you know, they're going to have to take
people down.
You can't say that you can't say it
that way.
You can't pronounce her name that way.
You can't do that.
And they're going to take stuff down.
It's going to be a very, very messy
situation.
I think you're right.
And I, but I think at the same
time to, um, I feel like there's a
lot of going to be a lot, I
think there's going to be shell shock from
this election that lasts a long time.
Oh, no, no, no.
Not just, you know, there's a lot, there's
ample evidence that a lot of, uh, Democrat
party operatives, but also media are saying, you
know, maybe we made a mistake by forcing
everybody to say Latin X and then use
correct pronouns as being so rabid about how
you pronounce the candidate's name.
There is some self-awareness.
This, I see it as very healthy for,
for the mainstream, but it's a little too
late that we've moved on.
Yeah.
You know, uh, YouTube has pulled way back
on their takedowns of for, for certain speech
related thing.
Like they've, they've really, there's a big New
York times article about three, about three or
four weeks ago, um, criticizing YouTube for not
taking down like a 2020 election denial info
and things like that.
They've, they've actually pulled way back.
I think, I think they're, I think they're
going to have to, um, wait to survive.
Yeah.
But to survive.
Yeah.
But when she talks about distribution, the distribution
mechanism, I mean, it is fundamentally broken.
We knew this would happen 25 years ago.
We knew the internet would disintermediate everything.
We knew that this was going to happen.
Just like we knew that newspapers would run
into financial trouble because their revenue was coming
from the classified ads and not people actually
paying for the news.
It is news by its news has no
value.
It's just news.
That's what Twitter is.
Twitter is going to become, or X is
going to become a news app, just news.
And it'll be AI based and some will
be true and some will be completely fabricated.
It'll be all kinds of stuff, but it's
just going to be a feed of news.
News has no value.
That's why Twitter is free.
Basically opinion will always matter.
People like opinions.
They like listening to opinions.
So NPR, you know, they've got to figure
out, Hey, if they would say, Hey, we're,
we're opinion here.
And here's the news that we're reading that
you're reading.
We think it's true, false, bullcrap, whatever opinion
will matter.
And people will gravitate towards people who they
think their opinion is correct or matters, their
own.
That's just human nature.
And where do you think you can get
opinion?
Where do you, where's the slam dunk place?
You always know you can find people's opinion
is podcasting.
Yeah.
Curry and the keeper.
Yes.
Yeah.
I was going to let you drop that
one.
Thank you.
Clip seven is, is, is about.
See my Micah puts it that they're going
to choose the people have been tuning out
of the mainstream and his, in his words,
choosing other voices to listen to the local
news business has been devastated.
People's habits have changed.
I mean, a lot of younger people are
not watching their local TV stations or not
paying for their local newspaper.
There are still communities with access to local
news, but people are on YouTube.
They're on Tik TOK.
They're listening to podcasts, right?
They have just chosen other personalities.
They've chosen other people, journalists, or those who
LARP as journalists to choose their information.
There's no news monoculture left that is dead.
Those who LARP as journalists, not elitist at
all.
No, well, the politics, the, again, they're like,
okay, people have chosen to listen to other
voices, but they don't ask why they never
asked that simple question.
Why did they, why are people making those
choices?
The, you know, this is, there's an entire,
this, this is the praxeological question, the human
action question.
Why do people do what they do?
And if you never ask that question, you're
just, you're just playing.
You're not serious.
The politics and media, both are bought and
sold using the same currency, trust and authenticity.
That's, that's the only currency that matters within
the realm of politics and media.
That's why there's currently a crisis in both
of those things.
Whether you agree with somebody's opinion or not
is, is, is, whether you agree with somebody's
opinion is by necessity secondary to the issue
of if you trust that this opinion is
truly held in good faith by them.
This is where I'd like to insert some
news, some good news.
Okay.
I was discussing parts of this on no
agenda.
And I said, which I think I've said
here, the future of media is hyperlocal because
there is no, he just said, well, people
aren't watching their local news because it's crap
because it's, it's network, it's network packages.
And then it's, you know, it's human interest
and it's all based on, we got 30
minutes of which eight minutes is commercials.
We don't have any time.
We're rushing through it.
We'll do, we've got the sports story, got
the weather.
Well, now we only have 15 minutes left
to do news, local news.
And it's just going to be whatever grabs
people.
If it bleeds, it leads.
So I was talking about this and I
said, you know, if anybody is interested in
setting up a hyperlocal podcast for your own
town, your city, your community, where you live,
excuse me.
So not, not a community of interest, but
well, by definition is, but a, a geographical
local podcast, which by the way, you'll probably
be supported by your local community.
Probably not enough to do it full time,
but you can do something for your community.
I was overwhelmed.
I had within an hour after the show,
I had 30 inquiries.
I have over a hundred, a hundred.
I've never had a response to something.
I had to write up a webpage for
it.
It's unbelievable.
People like, yes, this is a good idea.
I can be the voice in my community.
I can be not just a voice, the
voice.
There are no more voices.
And, and I think you're going to see
even more disintermediation of, of the networks who
by necessity have had to roll up into
like, you know, Elvis Duran in New York,
Z100.
He's not just New York anymore.
He's in 15 markets.
So he, he by definition can't do all
the local news.
That's the hole that podcasting needs to jump
into.
It's wide open.
The water's clear and fresh and good.
I want to do it.
I want to do a podcast, local podcast
for my little, for my community.
I don't have the time, but I like
the desire is there because I think it
would be so, I know for a fact
that in the little part of town that
I live in, that it would, people, everybody
would tune into that.
Everybody would listen.
Of course.
If you just talking to people in the
community, I mean, even to make it a
call in show.
Whatever.
Take calls and just talk about stuff going
on down the street.
Just have people call into voicemail.
Yeah.
Talk about, you know, aunt Rudy down the
street and how she keeps letting her dog
out of the fence.
I mean, anybody would, would, would listen to
that.
It's like, see, like a, it's like C
-SPAN, but local, you know?
Yes.
But like truth, truth always exists.
Truth always exists downstream from trust.
If you don't trust where the information is
coming from, you're never even going to get
to the point of thinking about whether it's
true that that's, it's so secondary.
I mean, trust takes years to acquire and
it takes minutes to lose.
And that is the problem with that is
the problem that this, that's, that's the whole
reason why people are tuning out of mass
media and going to podcasts because they feel
like the true, they feel a level of
trust there.
And the trust is based on honesty.
They, you may not agree with the, with
the podcaster, with the host or the guests
opinions, but you feel like you can tell,
you feel like you can judge accurately whether
they're honest.
And that sets you up with the proper
framework to then evaluate their truth, the truth
of what they say.
And that's a problem for, for NPR or
excuse me, WNYC or, you know, whoever these,
you know, MSNBC, CNN, Fox.
I mean, it's a problem for all these
people because they've ideologically pigeonholed themselves.
Like that's clip eight.
Yeah.
And every successive Republican administration has said they're
going to cut funding, but in those days,
yes.
And in those days when we've covered it
in the past, we've said, but we have
this solid conservative listenership and they don't want
it to be gone either.
And so it would not be a popular
decision on the part of any kind of
local Republican.
I don't know if that's true.
I don't know if that's true either.
I think it's certainly less true.
It's more vulnerable than ever.
Yeah.
So basically they're saying we used to have
a financial bulwark against our own, you know,
demise because we had a sort of an
ideologically balanced listenership.
It may have leaned a little bit more
heavily to the left, but at least it
was maybe 60, 40, whereas now it's like
90, 10.
And you can't, that is a, you've put
yourself into a precarious position.
And the problem is they don't, since they're
just message passing, uh, clip 10, uh, excuse
me, clip nine.
They, they don't know how to think about
this in any other way than what they've
always done.
I think in the end we, we keep
talking about the messages that are out there,
how they get out there.
And this is the executive producer, I think,
isn't this the executive?
No, this is Brooke.
Oh, that is Brooke.
Okay.
Yeah.
Hope that we can make a contribution.
I don't, again, we can't predict the future,
but, but I, I don't know that we're
going to see a Trump bump again.
I think it could be isolated to like
maybe the New York times.
I'm sure some sub stacks will go gang
buster.
I'm sure some Tik TOK accounts and podcasts
will get a whole bunch of new subscribers,
but I don't know.
I don't know.
I mean, yes, I fear that the mass
switching off.
Well, I don't know.
Yeah.
So the Trump bump they're referencing for those
who don't know the term, um, is the
term means that whatever happens with an election
with Trump and people were flocking to the
news to find out why, what, how, where,
and as is witnessed by not just cable
news down 40, 50% in viewership overnight,
but also many YouTube channels were losing.
So people are walking away from it.
They're just sick of it.
They're tired of all of it.
They're going outside to smell the freedom.
Well, they, they know that this is the
last, this is the last hurrah of Trump.
He's gone after this.
There's, there's not going to be, there's probably
never going to be anything like him again.
And so that's just like, eh, who cares?
I think I'm just going to get this
engagement.
I agree.
Yeah.
I'm just going to go on with my
life.
What's in what happens happens.
And that's a, again, in an election year,
Amazon cutting back ad spending 20%.
This is all very telling, but, but the
clip 10 shows that Amazon, I mean, uh,
that on the media and I think just
NPR in general, traditional media, I just don't
think they can think they can't think of
any other way to function.
I don't know what else we can do.
I mean, it's not like we have the
answers.
We, we know how to do this thing,
tell the truth, try to contextualize it and
send it out into the world, like a
message in a bottle that you throw off
the side of a rowboat.
That is our role.
We can do it differently.
We can see what kind of message resonates,
but we don't run a campaign.
We don't, we're just trying to be honest
brokers.
When I heard that, my first thought was
they actually thought they were running the campaign.
It's like, we were, we're running this, we're,
we're, we're, we're supposed to be making this
happen.
We're the ones that, that, uh, determine who
gets elected or not.
And, you know, listen to Joe Rogan.
He sits down with a guest and lets
them say whatever's on their minds.
It's unfiltered.
Same with Bill Maher.
If you want an example on the left,
Bill Maher does the same thing.
His interview, listen to Bill Maher's interview with
Ben Shapiro.
I love listening to Bill Maher's interviews.
I don't agree with him.
I actually agree with a lot of things
with him, but it's, it's nice.
It's comfortable to listen to.
I get an opinion of the guy.
I don't hate him.
If it was just soundbites of like, I
hate you, but no, it's because it's, it's
unfiltered.
It's comfortable.
He did interviews with Ben Shapiro, uh, Candace
Owen.
He's done, he's interviewed tons of people on
the, what you might call far right.
And he is, and those interviews are very
delightful to listen to.
And they, you hear, you hear them have
points of commonality.
You hear them have points of, of disagreement.
It's a, it's, it's fantastic.
You can, you feel like you have space,
mental space to make up your own mind
about what you think.
That's what podcasting is.
Wow.
Now, you know, I love how you've, how
you've done this.
That was good.
Authenticity.
That's the currency of podcasting to me.
That's that to me.
That's why this was a podcast election.
It's a shitty bumper sticker, but yes, it's
true.
Also not a great t-shirt.
Podcasting is authenticity.
Yeah.
That's too much.
How about this?
How about we take a breather and we
play, play a little music, play a little,
a little, a value verse music.
How does that sound?
Do it.
I got this from, uh, our, uh, from,
uh, from Jim from phantom power music.
He said, check it out.
TJ Wong kingdom come here on two point.
I'll do my best not to let you
go.
It doesn't matter what you've done.
So don't
you know, we don't need to fight.
Turns out to be a pretty appropriate song
for the topic today.
TJ Wong, Kingdom Come, Value for Value.
If you like the song, just scroll back
a little bit, hit your back button.
You can even pause it, boost the artist,
support them, putting their music up value for
value everywhere in the value verse.
I like it.
Yeah, I like that one.
Yeah, it's a good song.
It's a toe tapper.
It's a good one.
It is a toe tapper.
It's a toe tapper, I tell you.
Well, that was a good deconstruction, Dave.
I think you've nailed it.
And it doesn't really matter what the topic
is, whether it's politics or anything.
I mean, just hearing like ATP, you know,
they talk technology.
They all they have a very different political
view of the world than I do.
But, you know, it's interesting to hear people
just talk.
We've this is we've known this forever.
And that was sort of a long series
of clips.
But but, you know, but I think that.
I think it really matters.
I don't know, I think it matters to
know why it did.
We I think everybody says, you know, yeah,
podcasting played a big role in this election.
But you have to say, why did it
play a big role?
You can't just say that it did.
Right.
I mean, you have to you have to
have a sort of an explanation for it.
And yes, sometimes, yeah, it takes a while
to get sort of to the point.
And but it's it's and now that you've
said it like that, it's so true with
everything, with with with all you know, it's
a funny because for a while there, I
don't know if it's still in play, but
it's like you've got to make shorter shows,
got to be snappy.
People want short content.
I don't agree with that.
I have never agreed with that.
I do two, three and a half hour
shows a week.
But I don't know that people tune out
sometimes.
You know, the by the time we're done
at the end, it's 40, 50 percent of
what we started with.
But.
I know that, you know, people listen as
long as they want to, and they'll come
back and they'll try the next show and
they may stay longer, they may not.
But or the the topics may not interest
them.
You know, chapters are kind of helpful for
that.
Some people just don't want to listen to
some things.
But they.
Dvorak and I, we talk about this often,
why are people listening to us?
Why?
Why are they listening to us?
And, you know, the conclusion is, first of
all, we're doing it as a service.
We're not you know, it's not a product.
It's not a product and it's not a
bundle or a plus or a subscription or
anything like that.
We also don't interrupt your time with ads.
I think that's an important part of it.
And and we're doing it as a service
because we we're giving we are definitely only
giving our opinion now based on what we
think are facts.
And we come with clips and other things
to to try and make a case.
Sometimes I would say most of the time
I'm just trying to convince him.
He's trying to convince me.
And the audience listens along.
I'm not trying to really convince anybody in
the audience, though, by the way.
Yeah, you're you're not passing messages here.
You know, you're not you're not message passing,
you're just like giving your opinion.
Exactly.
And sometimes we're right.
Yeah, passing passing messages is that's not it's
just not natural.
People don't talk that way.
You know, that's that's the way politics.
That's the way politicians use car salesman.
Yes.
And just like all politics is local, all
podcasting will be local.
Frank Franco, he he got he got us
a he got us the skinny on the
Italian licensing.
Oh, yeah.
The license, the licensing dudes who are like,
you owe us thirty thousand dollars.
Yeah.
Basically, he somebody within the Italian podcasting world
kind of it looks like they're going to
call their bluff.
And so we're we're we sent him a
you know, we don't owe you anything.
We don't owe you any money letter.
So I think we've handled that for now.
But however it shakes out, we'll if we
can, we'll let everybody know.
So in case they get some similar letter,
you'll know how to respond.
Yeah, we never I don't think we ever
heard back from him, by the way.
Now, I haven't seen anything back from him
either.
No, of course not.
I said, go pound sand, boy.
All right.
Well, it's time to thank some people, seeing
as we're on on your winter schedule.
OK, yeah.
I'll start it off.
We've got some live boost.
Cole McCormick, 1111 with mainstream media dying.
I want to encourage the boardroom to check
out my conversation with Zach from Indie Hub.
That's Indie with double E.
We spoke for two hours on episode one
nine one thirty nine of America Plus, which
is a great show.
He's a real innovator who sees the value
in authentic art and expression.
Movies are not products.
They are a service.
We're just talking about that.
Yeah, I know Zach from Indie Hub.
Yeah.
Thirty three.
Thirty three from Bit Punk FM.
Podcasting is authenticity.
Bumper stickers for the wind.
No, no.
One, two, three from these laughs.
This is fire, he said.
That was for TJ Wong.
We got 50 cents from Sockeye the horse.
Thank you.
Sockeye always 50 cents.
Two thousand for Booberry.
Nick, the rat has the best show about
a locale, which is the sewers of Brooklyn,
New York.
Call him nine one seven seven one nine
five nine two three.
Then we had the two boosts from Sam,
his triple sevens.
Whoa.
They buy a bio drone.
Fifty thousand sats.
Oh, at these prices.
Goodness gracious.
Yes, I think that deserves a shot.
Twenty is blaze on the Impala and bio
drone says happy two hundred lads.
My business partner and I have been inspired
by podcast index.
So we've created the smart home index at
smart home index dot com.
Quick question for the professionals.
How do we do the acknowledge part of
the feedback loop with the website?
Or is the answer do a podcast dummy?
OK, well, I think I can answer.
I think I can answer.
So he's talking about values, doing this value
for value.
Look at how GoFundMe works.
GoFundMe.
You have the GoFundMe.
You have the the explanation of why people
are raising money.
And then on the side, there's a banner
like a scrolling thing.
And it says so and so donated so
much so and so donated so much.
And you can put a little message in
there.
You can be anonymous.
It's very much like a booster grant.
So just put a place on your website
where people can where the support messages come
through with the with the payment.
And I think it's very important to have
the amount there because that works aspirational and
inspirational.
And that's your feedback loop.
Mike Mike Dell, 1701, happy 200.
Thank you, Mike.
Salty crayon.
Seventy seven, seven, seven, two hundredth where Dave
is studio two hundredth where Dave is pseudo
the Linux and Adam is pinging the pongs.
We are all still loving running with scissors
in the boardroom in the pipe.
Go podcasting.
Lyceum 111, congrats on your milestone.
Think Biodrone again.
One, three, three, seven leaps, boost and 20
,000 sets from dreads.
Dred Scott coming in from Castamatic.
Congrats on 200.
Go podcasting.
And I have up 22,000 from cotton
gin.
Happy 200.
Thank you for your courage.
Thank you, guys.
And I believe I've hit the delimiters.
Yes, is is reaching a milestone of many,
many episodes.
I mean, it's a thing.
That's really just that's really just an like
a judgment on how much you love to
hear yourself talk, right?
It's something very interesting that I've learned about
value for value over the years.
People first of all, people love to support
you.
They love to support you for a reason
and they love numerology.
See all these eleven, eleven, seven, seven, three
threes.
People love numerology.
So when a round number pops up like
a 200 or a 500 or a thousand,
they like to match that number and they
like to celebrate that number.
It's like, I don't know, humans like that
birthdays, anniversaries.
We just like to celebrate things.
And it's always been and it's now we
don't do a newsletter.
But when no agenda has we had seventeen
hundred.
We had 17 years.
I didn't get a mention in the pod
news.
I was a little disappointed by that.
What, what, what?
Seventeen years, you know, people were sending seventeen
dollars, one hundred and seventy dollars, seventeen hundred
dollars.
People love doing that.
And yes, of course, we love hearing our
own voice.
Hello.
It's like birthdays.
It's like congratulations on not dying.
Yeah, you're still here.
Congrats on still being in my life.
See, we got.
Oscar, Mary, two hundred dollars.
Whoa, Oscar.
So I call up when he is blaze
on the Impala.
Thank you.
Thank you, Oscar.
I think Oscar's getting fountain back on track.
Yes, it's the stability is back.
Rough patch, but it looks like he's getting
getting the ship on course.
Yeah, it's hard, man.
It's I've had so many people like church
people.
You know, who are not the most not
I don't want to pigeonhole, but a lot
of them are a little older.
They're in their 60s, late 60s, some early
70s.
And they're like, I'm having some problems.
And the first thing I say is, it's
amazing.
Any of this stuff works is what I
say.
And they're like, oh, OK.
So I frame I frame it right there
for it's amazing.
Any of this stuff works.
And then I say, stick with it.
This is just a couple of guys.
And when you put it in that context,
like, oh, OK, I'll stick with it.
You know, I'm all I never say, you
know, don't switch or switch.
I just take it.
You know, and they have a feedback mechanism.
If there's something you can't figure out, they're
very responsive.
There's something you don't understand.
They can help you or I can try
and help you.
But I'm always putting it in that for
the first frame is it's amazing.
Any of this stuff works at all.
Believe me, we're not Google.
That's for sure.
Yes, that's truer words were never spoken.
Kyle Bondo sent us 50 bucks through PayPal.
Wow.
Thank you, Kyle.
Yeah, Kyle says Kyle from Flogner out here
in the Valley of the Dinosaurs.
Wishing you both a happy 200th episode.
Bravo Zulu to your both as you ride
the lightning.
Go podcast.
Yes, thank you.
Go podcasting.
Let's see.
We got some boosts.
We got up.
There's Kyron.
No more podcast.
2000 sats through fountain.
He says happy 200 episodes.
Thank you.
Glad for all your sanities.
We didn't have.
Let's see.
Glad for all our sanities.
We didn't have a fees versus splits round
two discussion.
No.
Well, we we dodged the bullet.
Dave's blood pressure would have reached 200 as
well.
True.
Yes.
Anonymous through Podverse.
Test two from CSB.
Twenty thousand twenty to twenty thirty three sets.
All right.
CSB, we got you.
Comma strip blogger.
This is test three from CSB.
Thank you.
Comma strip blogger.
Twenty thirty three.
I had to slap him around a bit.
So on the on the mastodon, he was
complaining.
And this sucks.
And I'm leaving podcasting to Bono.
I said, listen, it's classy.
SB is like if we love that you
break things and find flaws and report them.
This is very helpful.
But if you want to leave, just leave.
You have to announce it.
And I've been doing this to him for
almost 20 years.
And he's still here.
And I love him for it.
Let's see.
By a drone, 51 sets out of 10,
10.
He says, what a tune.
Heard it on podcasting 2.0. Oh, that
was for the previous show, I guess.
Yeah.
Pod home.
Barry, that's our buddy, Barry, through podcast guru.
He says, when can I download your podcast
apps?
Spill the beans on your secret project already,
boys.
Yeah, we were going to we were going
to talk about it today, but we ran
out of time.
And that's not that's the truth.
We ran out of time.
Well, we're we're definitely going to lift some
of the veil.
It's not really an app.
No, it's not an app.
It's a it's a vision.
We're selling a vision.
That's a vision of the future.
Cotton?
Question my question, my question, my gin.
I think that's the brother of cotton gin.
Oh, yes.
Twenty two thousand two hundred sets.
He says, happy 200.
Thank you for your courage.
Wow.
Thank you.
I think those were supposed to be emojis.
Oh, OK.
Got it.
A commissary blogger.
Is this make sure make sure I've got
17000 sets, I think.
Oh, wait, wait, wait.
Music Mama's first.
That's yes, Julie.
She says Abel James Austin is going to
be legendary.
Yeah.
Yes, yes, yes.
Abel James is.
Oh, that was for the song.
Yes.
I need to plug.
I need to remind everybody.
December.
Is it 16th now?
No, no, I'm a douche bag.
Get your calendar.
Yeah, I do have to get my calendar.
I'm pretty sure it's the 16th or 17th.
I think it's the 16th.
Oh, gosh, I feel like a douche.
It's I don't even know when my own
show is.
Adam Curry's you've only got 12 of them.
I know.
Adam Curry's booster gram ball live will be
on Monday, December 16th, live from Antone's famous,
famous venue in in Austin, Texas.
We've got Ainsley.
We've got we've got FM Rodeo.
There's a couple of surprise guests I can't
talk about yet.
There's going to be neon that you can
control with boost.
I think I'm going to be able to
control the miss machine.
It's going to be a nanny.
There will be actual music people who I've
invited, you know, like people who care about
music and also come from the music industry.
I want to show them what's going on.
And I think it's it's it's reasonably small.
I think it's two, 300 people at Antone's
and tickets are on sale now.
Tickets are on sale.
Get them while they last.
That's right.
While stocks last.
What?
What are the how many?
So how many times is ZZ Top played
at Antone's?
Oh, it's got to be many, many times
for Stevie Ray Vaughan.
Mm hmm.
Comic strip blogger.
17,000 sass through fountain, he says.
How do you feel a bit corners, Adam
and Dave?
Please subscribe to podcast from grumpy old dames
dot com.
Oh, they are the ambassadors of mature womanhood.
I have not heard this show yet.
I know grumpy old bands were grumpy old
dames.
Cool.
They are the ambassadors of mature womanhood.
They're the moms you should have listened to
when you were kids, but did not featuring
Lady Vox, the singer from Ketchikan, Alaska, and
Dame Loka, the baroness of Bora Silicate from
Smithville, Texas.
Yo, CSB.
Wow.
That's cool.
That's I'm subscribing to that one.
I didn't know they were doing a podcast.
Love it.
I like their ambassadors of mature womanhood.
We need more of that.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
We need a lot more.
We got some monthlies.
We got Mark Graham, one dollar Martin Lindesay,
one dollar pod page.
That's Brendan.
Twenty five dollars.
Oh, Randall Black.
Hey, Randall.
Five dollars.
Joseph Maraca.
Five dollars.
Podverse.
Fifty dollars.
Thank you.
Lauren Ball.
Twenty four dollars.
Twenty cents.
Thank you, Lauren.
Basil Philip.
Twenty five dollars.
Thank you, Basil.
Mitch Downey.
Ten dollars.
Christopher Harabarek.
Ten dollars.
Terry Keller.
Five dollars.
Silicone Florist.
Ten dollars.
Chris Cowen.
Five dollars.
Yara and Rosenstein.
Steinstein.
One dollar.
Paul Saltzman.
Twenty two dollars and twenty two cents.
Derrick J.
Viscar, the best name in podcasting.
Twenty one dollars.
Damon Casajak.
Fifteen dollars.
Jeremy Gerds.
Five dollars.
Gene Liverman.
Five dollars.
Michael Hall.
Five dollars and fifty cents.
And New Media Productions.
That is Todd and Rob.
Thirty dollars.
Beautiful.
Thank you so much for sending some value
back to the value we provide.
This all goes into podcast index dot org,
into the machinery, into the liquidity and anything
else we can provide.
We are happy to help.
We are here to serve.
We're on a mission from God.
And we appreciate the boardroom being here as
always.
And we look we're going to do a
show next week, right?
Board meeting next week.
Regular time.
Regular, regular bat channel.
Beautiful.
My brother.
Have yourself a great week.
Oh, I'm sorry.
You can't have a good weekend because you're
going to be doing the strike wallet stuff.
That sucks.
No, no, no.
I'm going to be.
I'm actually going to be in Kennesaw, Georgia
tomorrow.
Oh, what's going on?
Climbing competition for my daughter.
Whoa, whoa.
All right.
So she's in pictures.
She's competing.
All right, everybody.
Thank you so much for hanging out with
us here for the 200th board meeting of
podcasting 2.0. We'll be back next Friday.
See you then.
Adios.
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0.
Visit podcastindex.org for more information.
Go podcasting!
They're listening to podcasts, right?