Podcasting 2.0 for December 6, 2024, episode
203.
Tweet my tweeters.
Well, it's getting cold out there, but that
doesn't matter.
We're still going to bring you Podcasting 2
.0 on your Friday afternoon.
This is the place where we discuss all
things podcasting.
Your true north star.
That's right.
The boardroom is here, open for all.
And we are the only boardroom that does
not have a booth at the trade shows.
I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the
man who post-processes his generated tailwind bundle
just for fun.
Say hello to the pod sage, everybody.
My friend on the other end, the one,
the only, Mr. Dave Jones.
The what?
The man who post-processes his generated tailwind
bundle just for fun.
There it is.
Take that and you can just edit that
right in.
Splice it right in.
There's no takesy backsies here in the boardroom.
What's said is said.
Nobody will ever know.
What's said is said.
We're done.
That's how we roll.
We don't edit anything ever, as far as
I can recall.
Nobody will ever know.
No, no.
No one will ever know the difference.
Hey, brother, how you doing?
Good.
Yep.
I'm going to be consuming this plate of
food as we podcast.
So yes, but nobody will ever know because
that's how good I am.
Yes.
What are you eating?
I've got a croissant.
Oh, croissant.
And beef jerky.
Now you do a bite of croissant and
a bite of jerky.
Is that how you roll?
I'm not going to do that because that's
gross.
And then I also have a beef milkshake.
And that's a really weird lunch.
Good for you.
You know what?
When you run, when you run through the
kitchen, trying to grab food, grab whatever's available.
Yeah, it's the French.
Not the French.
Not real big on croissant and jerky.
And jerky.
No, it's well, but we could start a
new restaurant.
Oh, maybe that'll work.
Let me write it down.
Let me see if that looks good.
Yeah, it's probably not.
Jercois.
I think that sounds like a terrible, that
sounds sexual.
What a great product, Jercois.
That sounds way bad.
No, don't do that.
Oh man, it's been crazy here.
I was on a Zoom call with Open
Mike.
Open Mike, we know him from Toonster and
of course the Live Value for Value concerts.
And he's organizing December.
I want to get, I keep getting it
wrong.
Is it December?
It's Monday, December 16th in Austin at Antone's.
Go look on the calendar.
Antone's.
Tickets still available.
And this is for the Live Boostergram Ball.
Yeah, the Boostergram Ball Live.
Adam Curry's Boostergram Ball Live, yes.
Six bands, it looks like.
And he also had the, he's brought in
a guy to do a documentary.
Parker, of course.
He's a Bitcoin guy.
He has another guy named Parker.
Yeah, he's flying him.
Open Mike, he's really been, I mean, he's
really all in on this stuff, man.
He's putting up the goods to make this
happen.
And they've got a whole weekend before that
in Austin with the Costellos are coming in
and they've got like a round table and
all kinds of stuff happening.
He's really taking this to the mat.
So the documentary will be about Value for
Value.
Oh, so is he a documentarian?
Is that what he does?
He is a documentarian, yes.
That is his exact title.
But he's done Bitcoin documentaries.
He's done some good stuff.
And so he's...
The search for Satoshi?
No, not that one.
Okay.
No, he's done some other things.
And he's in New York.
So Open Mike's bringing him into Austin.
He's also going to do stuff in Nashville.
He'll probably come back in the new year
and do stuff out here with me in
the Hill Country.
He's really putting the work into it.
And he has to go to California to
talk to Dvorak.
I said, you can't do a Value for
Value documentary without JCD because he was very
instrumental in forming the original kind of concept
over 17 years ago.
Okay, so it's not Bitcoin specific.
It's a Value for Value documentary.
Correct.
Value for Value as the monetization model, the
programming format, and the international lifestyle.
The international lifestyle.
It's the new international lifestyle.
You didn't know that?
You didn't know Value for Value?
No, I knew this.
It just freaked me out.
I think it's actually...
Let me see.
I think it's actually on the valueforvalue.info
website, which I always tell people to go
look for.
Yes.
Let me see.
valueforvalue.info Let me see what it says.
Uh, I don't think...
Oh, that slogan is not on there.
But it does say monetization model, content form,
and a way of life.
Yes.
Okay.
A way of life.
But I like the new international lifestyle.
It's the new international lifestyle, baby.
That's what we're all about here.
So it was really good, but it screwed
up my morning.
I mean, we got people coming in.
I got...
because we have the parade tonight.
Parade?
Yeah.
Oh, the Fredericksburg Christmas Parade is a big
deal.
They air it live on CBS Austin.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
I've heard about it.
Yeah.
It's the Main Street.
No, I'm kidding.
It's the Main Street Parade.
And we've got the oil baron and his
fiancee coming in.
They're staying overnight.
So I'll learn a lot about oil.
Woo!
And then...
Now, is there floats that go down the
street?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, it's a full-on electrical light parade.
It's good old boys, too.
Hayride?
Hayrides, everything.
Yeah.
Nice.
I mean, we have the quintessential Main Street
in Texas.
I mean, this is the one.
We have the marked plots.
We've got the Eisbahn.
So we have the skating rink open.
We have an entire square that is just
all the trees are lit up.
All the Main Street, all the stores.
It is what you want from an old
-school American German Christmas.
Does the city have a Christmas tree in
the town square?
Yes.
Yeah, the marked plots.
Absolutely.
Nice.
This is a hallmark movie.
But wait for it.
So tomorrow, and they have the market going
on at 6.30. The market officially closes
at 6.30. We kick in.
We're doing a Christmas concert.
We've got the Rev. 1211 Orchestra, which is
about 10 different worship leaders from churches all
around Texas.
And they're doing a multimedia presentation of the
greatest story ever told.
So it's going to be videos running, like,
you know, the chosen Christmas scene and stuff.
It's not jingle bells.
It's going to be, I mean, these are
top-notch musicians.
And so I'm emceeing that.
Nice.
Yeah, so we're all into the Fred Christmas
spirit, man.
We are all in.
Hello, Fred.
Yes, hello, Fred.
So we've got a couple things to talk
about.
Maybe we can just, without going too deep,
we'll do a little update where you think
we are and the stuff I've been seeing
on the wallet switchover.
Let's just call it the wallet segment.
Now, wait, Drip Scott just posted a link
to www.fredericksburgchristmasparade.com.
Oh, virtual viewing.
Is that a real link?
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's a long domain name.
I hope nobody has an email address at
that.
Looks like it's streaming live on YouTube.
Let me click on it.
Let me see what they got.
Do they have anything live yet?
Oh.
We are Fredericksburg Strong.
That's Fredericksburg, Virginia.
No.
No, no.
Look at Virginia trying to steal Texas.
Oh, man.
No, good.
Take that away.
That link is no good.
Take it away.
Delete it off IRC.
Virginia.
Yeah, delete it off IRC.
So people are working on stuff.
There's a lot of talking going on.
I've seen some stuff.
I've been hanging out in the Stephen Bell
cinematic universe.
He's already upgraded sovereign feeds to handle the
new LN addresses.
He even has a value block updater in
there.
So it'll go through all of the feeds
that you use in sovereign feeds and put
in the new blocks when you're ready.
Oh, wow.
Oh, yeah.
He is running.
He's running real hard.
But I think there's still some confusion and
people have thoughts.
I mean, what have you picked up in
the past week?
Uh, well, I mean.
I know it's hard to I've had a
little bit of trouble keeping up with.
Right.
With wherever people are at.
I mean, there's let me see if I
can kind of step back a little bit
because part of the I mean, I think
part of the issue is that.
Nothing is OK.
The main confusion has been who this is
going to affect and who it's not.
Can we agree on that?
Yeah.
Well, it's going to affect everybody.
Well, I mean, yes and no.
See, that's that's the hard.
That's kind of you kind of summed up
the difficulty of this because.
It's going to affect.
Everybody that's not fountain.
Breeze.
Wavelake.
I mean, like there are people that is
not that are not going to be affected.
I mean, like fountains just going to keep
on trucking.
They're not going to be affected at all.
And then, you know, like if you claimed
your if you claimed your show through fountain.
And.
Then you're most of your listeners are also
using fountain.
Then you're not going to see any difference.
Ah, hold on a sec.
Hold on a second.
If people have claimed their show on fountain,
which means they have made use of the
partner API slash shim in the podcast index,
that information will have to change.
No, no.
No, because Keysand will continue to work because
Zebedee is the back end in fountain.
Fountain is going to continue to support the
current.
You know, the the keys and value blocks
on out.
But doesn't fountain want to move to the
Ellen address format?
They will over they will over time.
Yeah, but but they you know, this is
going to be a slow transition for them
as well.
But I mean, if you've claimed your feed
through fountain and using a fountain wallet address,
anyone else trying to send to you from
another app, which will no longer have keys
and available, that's going to fail.
So it does affect people.
Right.
That's that's that's where you begin to get
affected.
So like if you're if you let's say
that you.
I'm going to paint difference.
The only way I know how to do
this is just to paint different scenarios.
Like so if you are.
Um.
If you're a artist on Wavelake.
And your wallet is through them and people
are listening to your music on fountain.
You will not see a difference.
OK, nothing will change if you are an
artist on Wavelake and people are listening to
you on Wavelakes app or let's say on
Breeze.
Nothing will change.
You will see no difference.
The.
If you are.
If you are a music artist who claimed
through.
Sovereign feeds.
And you claimed to a wallet.
That your own wallet that supports.
Keysend.
Let's say your own node.
And most of your listeners are on fountain.
Or on Wavelake.
You won't see a difference.
Or Breeze.
The the places you're going to see the
places that are going to be affected initially.
Are going to be.
Third are going to be third party.
It's not third party, that's the wrong term.
We're going to be apps that used.
Albies free hosting as a way to get
listener wallets.
Mm hmm.
They're no longer going to be able.
The wallets are just going to go away.
Um, if you don't excuse me, let me
be specific.
If.
You the wallet will go away if you
do not.
Convert it to an Albie hub, which 99
% of those people will not.
Right.
I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.
So.
That's and I heard something about Albie converting.
Those sets into free credits or something like
that for an Albie hub.
I think that's don't know.
I didn't hear about that.
Yeah, I may be wrong.
So.
If you are a listener.
On.
Castamatic.
Um, you're not, you're just not.
And unless you decide that you want to
do an Albie hub, which most of them
will not.
You're going to lose the ability to send
boosts to people.
Same with Podverse.
Right.
True fans.
Uh, you're not there.
If you list, if you are a true
fans listener.
Sending.
Uh, boosts to somebody who claimed on Wavelake
or.
Fountain.
Or their own node.
You're not going to see a, there's, you're
not going to see a problem.
They're going to continue to function.
So as far as I can tell.
There's only two main apps that are going
to be affected by this.
Well, excuse me.
No, I'm sorry.
There's a couple.
Yes.
Podcast addict.
Podcast guru.
Podverse.
And Castamatic.
Podcast addict does never supported streaming sets anyway.
Okay.
So Castamatic, Podverse, Podcast guru.
Yes.
Those three.
So you're going to initially.
And.
I think everybody else is going to.
Um.
Is going to be able to function.
Uh, except those three.
Curio caster is going to integrate strike.
I think, I think Steven said he was
also going to continue to support Albie hub.
Obviously.
Albie hub.
Okay.
Yeah.
So that one.
That's, that's a hard one.
Um, not, I'm not sure there.
Okay.
So in this scenario, how do we transition
to Ellen address?
So that.
The other, the other three big ones, I
consider them to be big.
Podverse podcast grew fountain.
So that they can transition to.
Uh, the new wallet integration.
No podcast guru, Podverse Castamatic.
Castamatic.
I'm sorry.
So they can, uh, transition into the new
Ellen address.
The, all these other services will also need
to turn into Ellen address.
Uh, they will have to have an Ellen
address.
Yes.
The Ellen address will have to slowly come
into the feed and as that, but, but
really that is going to have to happen
on a time scale, uh, on a timeframe
where Albie and fountain are both comfortable doing
that.
So.
I don't know how long is this going
to take?
I mean, because there's a new, there's a
new standard here, right?
So there's the Ellen address options file standard
and that options file format has to be
supported by fountain and Albie, uh, and wave
Lake.
Does, does what strike does, is that actually
Ellen address or is that only Ellen URL
pay?
Strike.
Yeah.
It's Ellen URLP.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
So they don't, so that is not Ellen
address.
No, that is not Ellen address.
And so the, the, this guy, this was
the part of the confusion, uh, last week
with what Oscar was saying that, that is
just, it's just honestly hard to explain is
that Ellen, Ellen URLP, um, Ellen
URLP is a, you know, is, is a
way to get, it's, it's a bunch of
things.
It's, it's an L it's a lightning address
format, but also a way to get payments,
uh, generate invoices so that you can pay
an invoice.
So Ellen, Ellen address, uh, which is the
kind of format we're working with.
Um, Ellen address is the, is a way
to specify more, a bunch of different format
options because the thing, Ellen URLP, Ellen URLP
only, it assumes bolt 11.
So that's the issue.
And, and honestly, what we're trying to build
is something that's a little bit agnostic to,
to podcasting itself.
We're trying to attach lightning addresses to a
options file where you can ask what format
of, of invoice does the other side accept,
which is a step up, which is a,
uh, a layer, a level above Ellen URLP,
which assumes bolt 11.
So now you say, okay, we're not going
to assume anything we're going to ask.
We're okay.
Let me, let me start from me.
It's like, you've got an address, uh, spurlock
at, you know, livewire.com, uh, and that
you say, okay, I, this, he's given me
this as his payment, uh, address, but I
don't know what I can send him in
that.
Now let's talk.
We're, we're talking about this and we're going
to come up with an, I'm going to
actually go back to a similar issue when
it comes to, um, in a moment when
it comes to talking about Alex Gates's proposal
for the meta boost.
So we'll, you know, stick a pin in
this concept because we're going to come back
to it because the, that's the, that's the
issue is the Ellen URLP assumed bolt 11.
And now we're saying, okay, wait, we can't
assume bolt 11.
We can't assume a key send.
We can't assume anything.
Let's ask the, let's ask the owner of
the payment address what they can accept.
And when you do that, we, you need
a new format.
And that's what we built.
We built the options file.
And this was under the advice of Roy
who said, Hey, just build, build it.
There needs to be a way to specify
the different payment formats that the other side
accepts.
So now instead of just seeing a lightning
address, assuming it's bolt 11 and asking for
a payment invoice, now you see the lightning
address, you query an options file that says,
okay, here's the different payment methods I accept.
Is it key send, bolt 11, bolt 12,
or all three?
So you can put multiple ones into your
Ellen address, uh, well-known file.
Well-known options.
Ah, okay.
So that, that's the part I was confused
about.
So you can put different ones in there.
That's cool.
Yes.
So Dave at podcastindex.org may be, may,
might be a lightning address.
And in the past that was always going
to be assumed to be LNURLP, which is
bolt 11.
Now you can look up the options file
and get back.
Oh, I see here.
I can, I can pay Dave through key
send or bolt 12 as well.
Okay.
So just so I understand, so I will
have to, as a, as a sovereign individual
with my start nine, I will somewhere have
to create this file that can be accessed
that has my, uh, well-known options in
it.
Yes.
If, if you're sovereign, yes, if you're sovereign,
you will have to do that yourself in
some way.
Okay.
But even if I use strike, I'll have
to use that.
I'll have to get one of those somewhere.
If you're using strike to receive, yes.
And, uh, yeah, we have no idea where
those come from, uh, from Jesus.
If I pray hard enough, you pray and
you're delivered one.
Okay.
So that's something that, that, uh, that sounds
like a service by the way.
It sounds like a service.
I mean, I mean, well, I mean, I'll
be, I'll be in fountain and yeah, they
essentially have that.
Right.
I mean, I can, I can use my
dad.
Yeah.
So I would love that.
I would love to just be, that'd be
super easy to use my, uh, my, my,
uh, what is it?
Adam at get Albie.com.
And then, and, and, and it went and
I can then connect through them.
I guess I can connect whatever wallet I
want through Nostra wallet connect or whatever it's
called.
Right.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, exactly.
So you would, you would have, yes.
Cause strike strike supports, uh, you know, Ellen
URLP.
Uh, so you went through there, here, here's
the way you would munch this together.
Strikes.
If you're using strike as yours, as your
pay, as your destination wallet in your podcaster,
you would have, you would needs, you would
need an options file, a well-known options
file that lives at the payment address location
that you've designated.
And then in that options file, one of
the, one of the options for your bolt
11 option, you're going to return the strike
Ellen URP in point that belongs to you.
Right.
Got it.
So it allows the app to look up
what it can send you.
Got it.
So it's another, it's another, it's another lookup
step.
Um, you know, but which can potentially be
cashed for a little bit, I guess.
Sure.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
So I'll be, we'll be able to provide
me that, uh, Ellen address, uh, lookup file.
I think, I mean, that's, I think so.
That's the impression I got.
That's the impression I got that they would
be, which I, which is great.
I mean, that would actually, I mean, the
way it seems to me in this scenario
is that Albie can still play a very
important role by, by keeping everyone.
So, you know, I'll be, if you use
your Albie address, uh, and you use Nostra
wallet connect to connect to, I'm just going
to use strike as an example, then not
much would have to change.
If I'm using Podverse, I can still use
my Albie API.
I'm just connecting that address.
No longer, I no longer have a wallet
there.
I connected through their Nostra wallet connect service
to strike.
Am I thinking properly that way?
Uh, yes, I think so.
I mean, if, if Albie supports it, you
know, and I, and I think my understanding
is that they're going to support the lookup
and that would be great.
So, you know, we'll, we'll see what they
come up with.
I mean, I think they're grumpy about it
and I don't blame them.
Why are they grumpy about it?
Don't they want people using, I thought that
that's what they wanted.
I thought they were happy about it.
No, no, no.
I don't, I'm not, I'm not being ugly
about it.
I'm just saying, I think like, I don't,
you know, I don't think I get the
impression that Boomi didn't want to have to,
you know, jump through another set of protocols
and I get it.
It was their idea.
No, no.
Well, the Ellen address was their idea.
No.
Yeah, but the options file, I don't think
was, you know, I think, I think we
just could, but it's good for everybody though.
Ultimately, Roy, Roy, I think Roy was right.
I mean, you just need, you need, you
know, and again, we're going to talk about
this with, with Alex's thing.
You're going to need some level of, you
gotta have an extraction layer.
If you're gonna, if you're gonna do abstraction,
here's the thing, if you're going to do
abstraction, you better, you need to go all
the way with it.
Yeah, I agree.
Might as well go.
Don't half-ass it.
Yeah, do it, do it right.
Do it, do it, just do it.
Yeah, I mean, you know, because it's like,
okay, now we've hamstrung ourself and two years
from now, we're going to have to go
through this whole thing again for this new
payment model.
You know, it's just, I don't think, yeah,
you just get, you better go ahead and
do it right the first time.
I'm with you.
Okay.
That piece we've got.
Now, the next piece is the payment information
piece.
The metadata.
And I just want to give my two
cents before you kick into this.
Yeah, go for it.
What I've seen is a lot of discussion
about should the RSS feed determine where the,
where the, where the podcaster wants that information
stored or is that something on the sender
side?
And although I am agnostic, I would say
that to date, it has always been the
sender side that has been responsible for getting
all the information to the recipient.
And there's been no, no control files, no
information in the feed itself about that particular
information because it was being sent along with
the payment in the, in the TLV record.
So for my thinking, my thinking is it
makes sense for the sender to be responsible
for that.
PodSage, go.
You caught me with a mouthful of cork.
Okay.
Yeah, but the, the sender, but I mean,
the difference in the past though, is the
sender only had, the sender was sending the
metadata with the payment.
So the payment, they're, they're in a bundle.
I understand.
So, I mean, now, now this is different.
Okay.
Yeah.
That's why I said I'm agnostic.
I was just setting up.
You just reiterated what I said.
Thank you.
Okay.
So I think, I think this preserves your
sense of, of that whole thing though.
Okay.
So Alex's proposal is why don't we put,
since they're going to be separated, why don't
we put in the feed the, the location
that this data is going to, and I'm
going to be very specific about my language
here.
Okay.
Why don't we put in the feed a
web location where this data will be interchanged?
It doesn't mean that that's where the data
has to live.
It just means that if you want to
get metadata and payment boost metadata, i.e.
the TLV record, if you want to get
that information into a place that the podcaster
can use it, or if you want to
get it back out of a place where
the podcaster owns it, here's the protocol that
you're going to use to interface, to get
it in and out.
So that means this is very similar to
podping by the podping.cloud, by the way.
Podping.cloud is not, is not podping.
Podping.cloud is an interface into podping.
So if you want to send podpings, one
way you can do it is through podping
.cloud. It's a standardized protocol.
It's just an HTTP endpoint.
And it says, okay, if you want to
send a podping, here's how you do it
through podping.cloud. You're going to send us
an HTTP request and it's going to have
to look like this, and it's going to
be this.
And once you do that, we're going to
take it, and then we're going to send
it to the Hive blockchain for you on
your behalf.
That's similar to what Alex is proposing here.
He's saying, why don't we have a standardized
protocol, a REST or a REST-based protocol
where you send, where if you need to
send payment proofs or retrieve payment proofs, here's
the location, here's the endpoint location and the
data interchange format, the API spec.
Now, what you do with that metadata on
the backend, once you receive it as the
podcaster or as the service providing the service
to the podcaster, what you do with those
payment proofs, that's your business.
You can take those payment proofs and then
stick it on Nostr, XMPP.
You can stick it in, you can do
whatever you want.
Wherever it lives beyond that, that is not
of concern.
But in order to be able to have
a sort of a universal way that apps
can speak metadata, a payment proof, this would
be the language of payment proof interchange.
Now, understood.
Is this something that could or should live
in the LN address options file, or is
this another lookup that has to be performed
by the app?
It wouldn't necessarily be a lookup.
I could see where it would be sometimes
beneficial for if you're going beyond podcasting, I
can see where this would be beneficial to
have it in the LN address options file.
It could be there if you wanted to
sort of like get beyond the podcasting use
case, but it doesn't have to.
Like, I'm really kind of agnostic on that
point.
It could or it...
Well, the reason why I ask is because
if it's one thing to say, okay, we're
replacing value block in feeds with an LN
address lookup file, or LN address, which points
to a lookup file.
It's another thing for hosting companies.
I'm thinking on their behalf right now.
Now they have to add another field into
the feed for the metadata information.
So that's the only reason why I thought
maybe it's just simpler to add all of
that into the LN address lookup file, options
lookup file.
Possible.
Yeah, it's possible.
I mean, this is sort of...
Alex is proposing using JPTs, the JSON payment
token for the proof, for the signed proof.
And that's agnostic to podcasting.
It's not domain specific to what we're doing.
So that's generic enough to pull out and
put that into an options file.
I think this can evolve.
It could go...
I could see it going either way.
I'm just looking from the hosting company standpoint
of putting yet another thing that they need
to add into the feed.
I mean, it happens all the time.
It's just you're adding more complexity.
Again, I'm just talking out of my butt
because what do I know?
Well, the benefit of doing it in the
feed, like anything, I think there's probably some
trade-offs here.
The benefit of doing it in the feed
is that you may have podcast apps that
don't support payments but still want to show
some of this data.
Maybe they don't have listener wallets, but if
it's in the feed, they could still speak
the language to do that.
Say that again.
Just repeat that for me.
I got to parse that.
Well, let's say that you just have like
a pod page.
They may not support paying a podcast, boosting
a podcast through Lightning, but they might want
to show boosts on your pod page under
the episodes with all the comments and with
all these kinds of things, but they want
to make sure that they only show verified
ones.
Oh, okay.
So that would be a use case where
it would be more helpful to have it
in the feed because they don't have payment
infrastructure.
They could maybe look up the LN URL,
the LN pay address, but it might just
be easier to have it in the feed.
Okay.
All right.
And Alex is in the boardroom.
He makes a good point.
He's talking about Monero doesn't really have this
options file type of thing.
If we do it in this sort of
payment agnostic way where it's in the feed.
Right.
You don't need an options file if you're
going to use Monero as value.
I got it.
Right.
But that's up to the LN URL people.
But hold on a second.
I'm sorry.
Sorry to interrupt.
Because this is important.
So let's say there's a new token that
comes along.
It's Monero.
They want to utilize value for value.
Totally valid.
Even the naming of LN address is a
misnomer because it's payment specific.
Should it not be even more agnostic than
that?
So that in the future, maybe, you know,
I don't know, real time payments from Fed
now.
I'm just, you know, there's all kinds of
things that could become available to put into
that payment options file.
Do we want to even name that LN
address?
It doesn't matter what it's called, but just
you understand my point?
Shouldn't all payment go in there so that
you can say, well, I prefer Monero, but
fall back to LN URL pay or PayPal
or I don't know what, I mean, whatever
is coming in the future.
Yeah.
But that you're talking about when I'm, when
I've, if I'm a, if I'm a podcaster,
if I'm a podcaster and I've said, okay,
I have a lightning address.
Here it is.
I can accept lightning.
I've put that into my value block as
lightning.
Ah, okay.
I'm with you.
So a Monero guy is going to put
that value block in there as Monero.
So that's going to be a completely different
thing.
Got it.
Okay.
I'm just thinking you might want to have
a fallback, but whatever.
Monero guys probably don't.
Well, the Monero guy will have a, you
know, they'll, they'll just have a different, a
different payment type in the, in the value
recipient.
Yeah.
Value type or yeah.
Right.
Payment type.
So LN address, the law options look up
and all of a sudden everything comes into
it.
Okay.
Well, that sounds mighty complicated.
Yeah.
All right.
Does it, does everybody have enough to work
with from here?
I mean, I don't think we have to
beat this course even deader than it already
is.
I mean, it seems like this thing is
a bloody stump at this point, but, but,
but, but let's, let's all just, I think
Steve, I think Steven B, God bless him
has made some great points this week.
This, this, the, the thing, these problems we're
trying to solve, these are payment infrastructure problems,
which is not trivial, insignificant.
No, it's not true.
No, these are, we're, we are doing things
that are hard.
And when you do hard things, you're going
to have to make trade-offs.
Things are going to suck.
Sometimes, you know, things are going to break.
People are going to disagree.
Like all of these, all of those things
are going to happen because these are hard
things.
So it's the pod stage.
These are hard things.
It might suck.
The, this, the great wisdom from at the
top of the thousand stairs is things suck
sometimes.
There you go.
Yeah.
Things sometimes suck.
Okay.
Well, I, I, I feels like things are
underway and that people are building things and,
and putting things together.
So it kind of feels like our typical
process.
Yeah.
Um, is everyone, uh, I mean, so.
This is a rebuilding the plane in flight
process.
Yes.
That's right.
That's exactly what it is.
The first time we went through this, there
was no, there was no payments flowing at
all.
And now there are, so, you know, obviously
people don't want to mess that up.
So, so on the, um, the JSON payment
token, uh, you like this?
Oh yeah.
No, I think it's great.
Yeah.
I'm a fan of, of that format.
Um, and Oscar can use that in his
Nostra environment if he wants to go that
way.
Uh, yeah, it could be included for sure.
Yeah.
It's pain.
It's very agnostic to any sort of format.
So, I mean, basically you just, you know,
your site, you're just proving that you had
the pre-image by signing it and sending
it back, uh, with your, with your payment
data and the, you know, no, I like,
I like the format, but there again, you
can have the, the MetaBoost API, the MetaBoost
API, um, protocol that's being proposed in the,
you know, in the MetaBoost tag spec, uh,
proposal.
Let me see, let me, let me get
the discussion number real quick.
I think he posted it in the boardroom.
Oh, okay.
It's a discussion number 676 on, on the
GitHub name space repo.
Six, seven, six.
Yes.
Um, that there, he links to an open
API, a Swagger spec there where you can,
um, where you can grab that and stick
it in a Swagger, um, a compatible API.
I got Swagger.
Yeah.
You can put that in a, in a
Swagger, a compatible API Explorer and, and look
at the spec and, and hash, you know,
we can hash all that out on, on
the GitHub or in the spec or whatever.
Okay.
But again, that's an agnostic thing where you
can say, uh, this is just a way
to, a way to exchange payment proofs.
Then it, it removes this, it removes all
the angstiness around where these things go, whether
it's Noster or something, you know, and it
just kinda, I like the fact that it
removes all of that stuff.
Um, and we don't have to say, you
know, Hey, you know, hey, just trust me.
And we don't all have to just like
start querying fountains relays for stuff.
This lets, this lets people actually say, okay,
you want to see my payment data or
you want to send me payment data?
I'll show you yours.
I'll show you mine.
I'll show you my payment data if you
show me.
It, it lets people say, okay, here, well,
here's where you go and here's how you
interact with it.
And we all just know how to do
it.
And that gives people the opportunity to keep
things private if they want to have it
sent somewhere else or done somewhere else.
That's kind of the idea.
Yeah.
And it's also a single, a single, um,
point of failure.
No, no, uh, uh, what am I trying
to say?
It's, it's, it's a single request type situation,
whereas there's going to be, uh, there's going
to be problems with, with a Noster lookup
because that's a web socket.
Some clients may not want to keep that
socket open.
Uh, this is a little more simplistic because
it's just an HTTP, you know, query.
Um, so it's a little, it's a little
easier to handle, you know, than the web
socket stuff.
So most, most apps could more easily come
on board with something like this than they
would be to build out web sockets.
But anyway, it's, I like it.
I like it a lot.
Okay.
Excellent.
It's going to take time to, you know,
flesh it all out.
We're on the road though.
I'm loving how everybody's working together, questioning each
other, banging stuff around.
And I'll just reiterate one more time.
I've been talking about it.
It started Thanksgiving, actually.
We did our Thanksgiving, some friends and go
around the table.
What are you thankful for?
And I said, I'm thankful.
You said lightning address options.
Exactly.
Well known.
And they were like, what?
Dot well known.
I'm thankful for dot well knowns.
No, I said, I'm incredibly thankful for the
people in this community.
And, and actually evolved into a larger discussion.
I said, you know, open, open source development
and open development communities blow up all the
time.
And usually within this four, almost five year
period.
So the fact that we're all still here
and in one form or the other, you
know, people come, people go, people come back.
I mean, that's, that's life.
But the way that we are interacting with
each other is I'm so, I'm thankful.
I'm just thankful for it.
It is, it is truly a thing of
beauty.
And I want everyone to just, you know,
just pause for a second and realize how
truly awesome this is because we come from
different countries, different cultures, different backgrounds, different
heritage, different political ideas, but we all are
on the, basically on the same page if
we want to make it work.
And this is the exact same vibe that
podcasting had over 20 years ago.
It's the same vibe.
And yeah, there's, you know, there's all kinds
of stuff that happens.
All we had the Adam guys come in
ATOM and they were like, well, I'm going
to stomp it over, you know, and, and
there was some rage quitting, which we haven't
really seen here.
Well, all the people that need to block
each other, they've already blocked each other.
So we're good on that.
They don't even see each other anymore.
And that's okay too, because some people just
need to block each other.
And that is the big difference.
I'll say the Mastodon server where we, where
we hash stuff out has been, I think
a perfect way to do this for the
reason you just said, when it's a, you
know, back in the day, it was a,
I think it was a Yahoo group.
We had an email, a Yahoo group and,
you know, and, and you can't really block
people who post stuff who you want to
block because I just don't want to hear
this person for whatever reason.
And I'll see it leak through in other
places from other people.
It's been a great way to do it.
And it much better.
I mean, the GitHub is good.
We get down to the technical details and
you, and you're talking about implementing stuff and,
you know, the discussions there can go in
and out and get a little bit heated,
but ultimately everybody comes back to, to our
safe space, you know, podcasting, social, it feels
safe.
Yeah.
I think, I think it's, um, I think
this, I think this community has lived, has
lived much longer than most do.
And, uh, that's, yeah, that's just a testament
to, I think the, the focus is people
just, they're just focused on, on just getting
stuff done.
I mean, it's not, you know, I just
want to, I just want to, everybody has
a similar want and that's just to make
the client, the podcast app experience better.
Yeah.
Um, you know, cause we're, we're singularly focused
on that one thing.
Yeah.
Everything else kinds of kind of goes into
fog.
So both of my favorite shows in the
podcasting space, um, power, power, power, podcasting, weekly
review, uh, and, uh, but also, uh, the
new media show both talked about the post
from Dave Weiner and I wanted to, uh,
throw my two cents in about what Dave
Weiner posted.
And, uh, I shouldn't actually be, uh, I
shouldn't, uh, misquote him because boy, you want
to get Dave mad.
Misquote him.
Yeah.
Misquote him.
Uh, let me see.
He had, what was his post now?
Uh, he wanted to clarify is what he
said.
I think it came, where was it?
Somewhere earlier.
Um, here we go.
If I wasn't clear enough yesterday, we're losing
the word podcast very quickly.
It's coming to mean video interviews on YouTube.
Mostly.
Our only hope is to upgrade the open
platform, a way that stimulates the imagination of
creators.
And there's no time to waste.
If you make a podcast client, it's time
to start collaborating with competitors and people who
create RSS based podcasts to take advantage of
the open platforms.
Otherwise, having a podcast will mean getting approved
by Google, Apple, Spotify, Amazon, et cetera.
And they, as we know, are nuzzling up
to the new government.
Okay.
Thanks for making a political Dave who will
want to impose severe limits.
Really?
This isn't a casual request, casual request.
It's urgent.
So, um, a couple of things about that,
because that's being interpreted in many ways.
I think the key here, and so first
of all, people are like, where are you
been?
Like, okay, you know, wherever Dave is, he
can do whatever he wants.
Who cares?
Um, and, and then I'll say right along
with that.
Oh no, I'll hold that for a second.
So where he hasn't been around, he knows
about it.
You know, Dave and I know him reasonably
well from our early days.
Um, uh, he gets mad about things.
So calling it podcasting 2.0, that's just
flip the switch in his brain.
He's like, I'm not a part of that.
That's not podcasting.
So he misunderstood.
Doesn't matter.
He may not like me.
He probably doesn't like me.
Um, there's all kinds of reasons why he's
not been involved.
And now he's calling for something very specific.
And I just want to explain what I
think he means and where I think he's
right.
And it's particularly about the podcast client.
So when he says client, that's a podcast
app.
Now, what Dave's vision has always been, has
been to integrate OPML into podcasting.
It got integrated early on and it basically
became a subscription list.
Okay.
There's a lot more you can do with
OPML, but as a subscription list, it's kind
of usable between most apps for importing and
exporting your subscriptions.
Not a bad feature.
What Dave wants is he wants to see
more of what, um, the reason is that
people go to get podcasts on YouTube.
It's not because of the video.
I'm just going to say that it's not
because of the video.
If it was really because of the video,
then Joe Rogan would be putting out video
files in his RSS feed.
If it really, really, really mattered.
It doesn't.
It's because of the platform.
The platform, it's where people are.
It's where there are some big name podcasts
that are indeed interviews with video with, you
know, with interesting subjects.
It is not the end all be all
of podcasts.
Otherwise, no agenda would do it.
Otherwise, a pivot would do it.
Otherwise, NPR would do it.
None of these are all successful podcasts that
don't have a video component.
People are able to find it just fine
without YouTube.
There's external forces that want to, um, have
people go onto platforms where you have first
party data, data where you already have advertising
infrastructure.
Those forces are very, very strong.
That's the podcast industrial complex.
And if it infects people's minds like a
worm in their brain, and that's why we
have this incessant nonstop talk about, should I
do video?
No, nobody cares.
You either do video or you don't do
video.
It has nothing to do with other than
people want you to be on YouTube because
it's easy.
What does YouTube do?
This is, we are, this is the same
cycle we saw with early blogging.
Blogging was great.
People love blogging.
What blogging is to, was then is Nostr
today.
Why is Nostr not growing?
Because it's not exciting.
It's not that it's not exciting for the
creator.
That's where I disagree with Dave.
It's not exciting for the user.
It's a utility.
It's like a fork.
Let me go get some podcasts.
Let me stick my fork into my app
and I'll eat it.
What is exciting about YouTube and TikTok is
the algorithms.
Algorithms present things.
Algorithms can make something go viral.
RSS almost by default cannot go viral with
the apps that we have.
This comes back to something I talked about
a while ago with Rachel Maddow, where she's
saying, how come these apps don't do anything?
They're not exciting.
I'm paraphrasing, but she's saying, no surprise, she
and Dave Weiner are on the same page.
They're not exciting.
Now, how can we make it exciting?
I think Sam Sethi is already a long
way.
He understands this.
He's already a long way towards the goal.
None of us are going to do algorithms.
We'll never have the horsepower to power our
apps with algos that look at everybody and
make recommendations.
In Dave Weiner's world, this was something called
share your OPML.
You could upload your subscription file and then
you could mix and match.
You can do all kinds of fun things
if you have a central repository of people's
subscriptions.
Now you can get some recommendations and interesting
data out of there.
That is how Dave Weiner thinks.
He doesn't think in APIs.
He thinks in feeds and just files.
So I think that's very old-fashioned, although
perfectly valid.
What Sam is doing with his activity data,
this is the kind of stuff you want.
This is the kind of stuff you want
to work together on.
And a version of that is comments.
That's true.
A version of it, the illustrious, the ever
-just-out-of-reach cross-app comments.
Two weeks.
Coming in two weeks.
But understanding what...
So Fountain, in a way, is also kind
of doing this where you follow people on
Nostr.
I find it confusing, but I understand the
idea is if I'm following someone, and this
is what TrueFans does, and also Fountain.
I'm following Dave.
Suddenly something shows up in my timeline from
Dave because he played or he subscribed to
or listened to or he did something with
another podcast.
I like Dave Jones.
I like Dave.
Whoa.
What is Dave listening to?
Boom.
Now, from there, I want to be able
to see who else is connected to this.
This is the surfing that kind of is
a reverse algorithm that makes the product exciting.
The majority of our podcast apps are just
utility, and nothing wrong with it that we
made radios.
Now, if we want to compete, and I
don't really feel we have to, but I
feel there's a huge opportunity, and by accident,
you and I took our own advice and
we created Godcaster, which I'll tell a little
bit about here because it's a super secret
project, but people are learning about it now.
It's a business-to-business product.
It is a podcast player with a lot
of functions, and we're very specific to a
specific market.
At this point in time, it is faith
-based radio stations.
So we give them a way, our pitch
to them is we're giving them a way
to transition from towers and broadcast signals to
a stream, and all of their nationally syndicated
content that they already have now can be
found in one place in their player, because
the Godcaster becomes their podcast player, which is
managed by and made exciting by the manager
of that radio station.
That's a very, very short view of what
it is.
There's a lot more to it, but it
is an exciting product because it has an
opinion.
The opinion is this is the type of
content we're showing, and that content is actually
being managed by someone who's doing that for
you.
This could be done in many different ways,
but it is an exciting podcast player.
It's not an app.
It's not, you know, we're really not trying
to compete with anybody here.
It's very, very specific for this audience.
We might expand, but this is where it
starts, and we're seeing great success.
People really enjoy this, and wherever you get
your podcast is so powerful because now these
radio stations are saying, hey, you can get
this.
We've already set this up for you.
The podcast is right here, and I don't
have the numbers, and I've tried to get
data.
It's somewhere between 25 and I think 40
percent.
I'm just guessing.
I'd love to hear more from James or
from Tom or from anybody who knows, but
I think my experience is a lot of
people find it very enjoyable to just go
to a web page and hit play.
Not everybody uses a podcast app, and I
think it's because of the reasons I just
mentioned.
They're interested in a very small subset, and
the podcast app is not delivering that experience
to them.
Right.
So there's work that we can do, and
I think definitely by working together and exchanging
some of this data, we can make these
products more exciting because what RSS feeds and
blogging turned into was social media.
Twitter was RSS feed-based, which is why
it failed because they centralized all these RSS
feeds.
Their architecture was all off for moving to
a very quick updating type system, but that's
what made it exciting.
And Blue Sky, Blue Cry, as I call
it, they also have algorithms.
Now, their pitch is they're going—now, it's a
pitch.
I haven't seen it in motion yet.
Their pitch is, well, we're going to let
you choose your algorithm.
We'll see how that works out because they've
just announced they're probably going to do ads,
and it's all going to suck.
It's all going to suck.
It's all going to start to suck just
as bad instead of being able to interchange
information between the users themselves.
And I think that is what's missing, and
that's being kind of wiped away by saying,
you need to do video.
No, it's just not true.
Now, are we going to lose the word
podcast?
I don't think so.
A podcast, yeah, I get my podcasts on
YouTube, fine, but we know people are also
getting their podcasts in podcast apps.
We know they're getting it on Spotify.
We know they're getting it in TikTok, where
they think is a podcast, but they're also
getting it on Apple.
They're getting it on Fountain, Podverse, Podcast Guru,
CurioCast, or wherever.
They're getting it wherever you get your podcasts.
So let's make it exciting, and let's work
together on some of these ideas and get
the data flowing between the apps.
I think that is critical for the future
of apps, not for the future of podcasting.
Everybody who goes to YouTube and turns on
a camera and gets some mics and is
on YouTube eventually gets distressed, whether they're deplatformed,
demonetized, they don't hit the algo, they hit
the algo one day, they don't hit the,
they don't understand it, they have no control,
all kinds of, you know, lose your password,
all kinds of things, bad things happen when
you're not RSS feed based.
That's an education piece that the hosting companies
are very good at and will continue to
teach their customers.
And if they're really, if it really was
about video, then people would be demanding video
on podcast, from podcast hosting companies at any
cost.
But they're not.
And you can't, and you can't compete with
YouTube or any of these large systems who
have incredible infrastructure for delivering this video.
You can't.
So let's not try to.
And let's just stop with that.
Make great experiences with your podcast apps.
I think value for value, that interaction is
something very unique, boosting.
It's very unique.
How do we make that more enticing, interesting?
Again, I think Podverse made a bold decision.
They said, we're going to show these booster
grams underneath the episodes.
There's a lot of engagement there.
And look at what TrueFans, Sam is gamifying
all kinds of stuff.
He's in, I think he's pointing in the
right direction.
Right.
That's my spiel for today.
Well, I think what you, I think you've
come up with a good point in there
when you were talking about the, the excitement
is not there because things can't really kind
of go, things can't go viral.
And, and there's, that's, I never really thought
about it in that way.
But the, I think what we, if you,
if you take it back, if you take
what you said back to, to podcast, quote
unquote, industry, I don't think there actually is
one, but the quote unquote podcast industry, what
gets everybody excited?
It's money, money, money.
Well, across the board, people get excited when
people, when, when they get their unwrapped, when
they get there.
There you go.
Perfect example.
When they get, uh, uh, the, the top
10 lists come out.
Oh yeah.
Now you're talking about the podcast of the
year.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
And that's what podcast apps are not good
at showing that sort of thing.
Uh, they, you know, there may be some,
Hey, here's, here's some recommendations, but when you
log into something like YouTube, what you see
is, and this is YouTube way more than
something, or, uh, X is a good example.
Uh, Spotify, I don't think is very good
at this at all, but things like YouTube
and, and Twitter slash X, they are very
good at gra at, at using an algorithm
to just throw a bunch of stuff in
front of you.
And then see what sticks and give you
more of that.
I mean, they're, they're tracking that on an
individual level.
Absolutely.
And that's not something that podcast apps are
traditionally very good at, uh, as is doing
that sort of thing.
And it can, it can be done, but
what really you need is, um, is, uh,
you, so you, there's two, you can go
about it kind of two ways.
Like the, this, the, the true fans approach,
which is sort of activity based.
It's like, well, I'm going to have an
activity feed where I follow people and see
and what they're doing.
And I know, like you mentioned, I'm, you
know, I like, you know, I like Adam,
I see his stuff and then his stuff
influences, you know, my feed.
And I begin to get recommendations and stuff
based on what I'm seeing from him.
But then there's another way, which is sort
of the Godcaster thought process, which is I'm
going to, I'm the, I'm the program director
for this station.
And these are all the things that I'm
going to say represent me.
Or you could say a church would be,
would be this way too.
The church staff may all have specific podcasts
that they listen to.
And then they assemble all of that into
a, into a player and they present this
program grid to you.
They present a, a batch of podcasts that
they recommend.
They're advocating for this stuff.
The same thing could be done for open
source software.
You may have people that are heavy in
the, you know, in the podcasting 2.0.
You may have some, the podcasting 2.0
community may have a set of podcasts that
a lot of us listen to that we
would say, okay, yeah, this is, these are
these, if you're a part of this community,
here's what we recommend you listen to.
And, and yes, a bit punk FM, that
is pod role is a part of that,
but where's, where's the support people on, what
are we drinking?
Pabst.
Michelob.
LaCroix.
The king of, the king of beers.
The king of LaCroix, the king of water.
So yes, it is absolutely, but you know,
we're all busy.
We have other things to do.
Where's the support?
I mean, there's some big hosts that support
pod role.
So this is a perfect example.
Even stuff your app can do with geolocation
or the location tag or the people, there's,
there's a lot of stuff that can be
done.
If you want, if you want to be
a utility, that's fine, but let's take it
away from it has to be video.
Cause that's just, forgive me, Lord bullshit.
It really is.
It's bullshit.
It is.
Yeah.
And, and I think it doesn't work if
only, this is another thing we have to
understand about, about podcasting is that we are
all in this together from an app standpoint.
And that is something that I respect so
much about everybody here is Oscar, you know,
and, and Stephen B and Mitch, and everybody
is so willing to play ball with each
other, because I think we all understand that
we're in this together.
We're not independent silos of, you know, so
what, in some way Oscar, Oscar can't survive
without other apps.
Because all, they all play a role.
Everybody has their favorite sort of app and
everybody, it plays a role to lift everything
up and create more and keep them, you
know, content flowing.
So when you have things like pod roll
and, uh, oh, I'm going full mush.
When you have, when you have things like
pod roll, publisher feeds, you, if, if all
of that is flowing cross platform, I mean,
that's like a united front to say, here's
what podcasting can be, right?
Here's what RSS based podcasting can be.
It can be decentralized and still have a
sort of global algorithm at its core.
And we have nothing to lose by trying
this in our apps.
We have nothing to lose.
Oh, nothing.
Yeah.
And there's still some kind of old school
ethos that came in, you know, of everyone's
equal.
It's all the same.
Everyone has the same weight.
And no, no, you have users and fountain
users are different from podcast guru users are
different from pod verse users.
And you'll have different user groups within that.
And, um, we need to start.
This is why I said we need the
Rachel Maddow app.
You make the Rachel Maddow app, which can
be the same version of your other app.
Just brand it differently.
Throw it in.
I'm telling you, she will glom towards it
because she wants it.
She wants to get all of this certain
type of content.
She wants to see where, where she is
in the number of people on that.
That's it using.
It's the same thing.
It's the same thing as likes and follows.
It's all the same thing.
It's all the stuff that people like.
They enjoy it.
They enjoy seeing these things.
And we have a lot of these, this
data at our disposal.
And by the way, I'm fine if you
just, again, I'll just say making utility apps
are fine.
It's there's the opportunity.
Dave Weiner is pointing it out in a
Dave Weiner kind of way.
I mean, he has a Dave Weiner type
of solution and he's, um, under informed, perhaps
ignorant about what we have done here.
Willingly.
Yeah.
But we have all the, and just, and
I'll come back to that.
One thing I was going to, that I
didn't say earlier, um, Sam and Dave, Sam
and Dave, Sam and James, Sam and Dave
is different guys.
Hold on.
I'm coming.
Sam and James said, well, we need a
figurehead for podcasting 2.0. It's too bad.
Adam doesn't do that.
Okay.
So I'm going to just make it very
clear.
Tried that.
Got the back room at podcast movement.
No mass, no mass.
Those guys are in a different plane.
They're doing different things.
They have different motivators.
We got nothing.
And, you know, and, and with respect, I
got invited to it's short day, January 17th
to, you know, MC the podcasting hall of
fame.
I'm going to respectfully decline.
You know, I, first of all, I don't
have time in my life for running around
doing all this stuff.
I'm doing other things that I find more
important for what I'm doing in life.
Um, but also it's a circle jerk.
It's not, this is not important for podcasting.
It really isn't the podcasting hall of fame.
It's, it's like saying it's like a top,
like Apple's chart.
You know, this, everyone has a different chart.
How many award shows do we have?
It's a million award shows.
It's just another part of money stuff running
around in different circles.
It's irrelevant.
The podcast academy is not important.
All this stuff.
It's all just stuff that's been Velcroed to
the side of podcasting.
It's irrelevant.
Yes.
Velcroed.
So it's, it's, you know, what is it?
What even does a podcast hall of fame
mean?
You know, hall of fame for what it's
marketing opportunity.
And then you can speak about podcasting two
point.
What am I going to say?
It's podcasting.
We have new apps.
Good night, Cleveland or Orlando, Miami, wherever it
is.
Now we have, we have cool new stuff.
I talk about it twice a week for
a reasonably large audience.
I say, go to podcastapps.com.
We got all kinds of cool stuff.
We got chapters.
We got location.
We got chapter images.
We have, you get, uh, uh, you get
my podcast updated within 90 seconds.
You get a bat signal when I'm going
live.
And it's the podcasters that need to promote
it.
The podcasters, they need to be passionate about
it.
And the ones that are and that do
it succeed.
And the people follow the content.
You, you know, you've made this point many
times.
People follow content.
They don't necessarily, they don't follow, um, platforms
necessarily.
Nope.
And so they will follow.
I will follow the content that I like
to wherever platform it goes to.
That's right.
If, you know, I listened to no agenda
twice a week for, you know, I don't
know how many, 15 years now.
And if no agenda went subscription behind a
paywall on right on rumble, I would, I've
never looked at rumble in my entire life.
Right.
Yeah.
Uh, I would go there tomorrow and set
up an account and do all that kind
of stuff.
Just cause I mean, that's the way this
stuff works.
The platforms are not as important.
I don't think as people make them out
to be.
Um, now there is an excitement factor with
certain types of, of platforms.
Um, you know, and, and with the algorithms
and the push and the nudging and all
this kind of stuff, I will, I totally
understand that.
I totally understand that.
And, and podcast apps can be better about
that way.
And we will get better about that over
time.
Yes.
But, um, I don't really think the platforms
matter that much.
In fact, I know they don't.
Um, I mean, this is like, this is
like anything else.
Everybody thought, you know, everybody thought that Google
was going to eat RSS and then they
just got bored with it and gave up.
Well, they gave up to try a social
media network and they failed three times.
Right.
It's not in their DNA.
And RSS is still fine.
It's not, it's been completely unaffected by them.
Yeah.
So I, I just, I just don't think
that, and Spotify is going to get tired
of podcasting.
I think they already are.
Oh, and they're going to get tired of
video and people are going to get tired
of how they handle it.
Cause no, it's, it's all, there are, I
mean, what a botched launch.
Now you can do video on a, we
just like YouTube only better.
How much money can I make?
Uh, we're not, we're not sure yet.
Yeah.
We're not sure yet.
Stand by.
And, you know, and look at the beautiful
infrastructure we have with hosting companies.
Look at the diversity, look at the, the
scope, look at the different types of help
and all the things you can get.
And people often come crying to them like,
Oh, it didn't work out over there.
Okay, do this.
And then we can help you with this
piece.
Um, you know, you get none of that.
You get none of that, that, that support
and, and level of control over your own
content.
And people will figure that out.
I mean, they always do.
And when the content leaves somewhere, just like
you said, it goes somewhere else, they'll find
it.
And often I'm accused of, well, you know,
you're famous.
Dude, it's only gotten harder.
The more podcasts, the more places to get
podcasts has only gotten harder.
And the older I get, the less relevant
I get.
There's people listening to no agenda who never
saw a video on MTV ever.
Didn't even know they had videos on MTV.
And you don't, you don't get an automatic
gimme.
I don't think that's true.
I mean, like this happens in the sort
of app, uh, world to, um, you, you
could say that, uh, Marco is a good
example of that.
He's got sort of a cult following of
people who always are interested, interested in his
stuff, but they didn't, people have not kept
using overcast for 10 years because Marco is
Marco.
Right.
They, they use it because it's a good
app.
Yeah, it's, it's a good app.
If he had made it, if he had
made a crap, a crummy app, it would
have fizzled.
And an app, an app is content.
An app is also content.
Totally.
It's totally content.
Yeah.
If you've had a podcast for five years
and you still only have 12 listeners, it
doesn't mean that you need to stop because
you may enjoy, you may be doing it
just because you enjoy it.
But it does mean that it's probably not
content that a lot of people are ever
going to be interested in.
So it may, you know, if your goal
is to do some sort of like make
a living that way, it's probably, you need
to switch gears.
Yeah.
Do something else.
Well, then this is always the problem, you
know, it's like, uh, fame, uh, which is
often associated with money, but it's absolutely not
perpendicular or linear.
Um, uh, you know, the promise, uh, the,
the way that, uh, successful people are put
on a pedestal and you can do this
too.
I've been, I've been guilty of, uh, of,
Hey, quit your day job as well.
And I've really tried to make that happen
for some people.
Some succeeded, most didn't.
Um, you know, it always, you know, if
anything, uh, this move, this talk of videos
is discouraging people from getting started.
And as, and as a group, I think
we should just cut it out, just cut
it out, stop talking about it.
Now that's hard to do because money is
so tied into a lot of the podcast,
uh, press and, and reasons for people to
talk about it is it always.
And that's our, that's our culture, you know,
always comes down to money, but I do
tons of things for no money, like this
very podcast.
Oh yeah, for sure.
But I get a lot of satisfaction out
of doing this podcast.
It's for me.
I love it.
I, it, it floats my boat, fills my
buckets, tweaks my tweeters.
Okay.
That's the show title.
What's the title?
Tweaks my tweeters.
Tweak my tweeters.
Um, I've got a, uh, man, what's our
time?
Well, I may have to, yeah, we, we
may have to, we got to do a
double thank you because we didn't do it
on the last board meeting.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
I w I've got, I got two things
that we got to talk about this next
week.
Okay.
I'm going to write it down.
Okay.
Next week.
All right.
Uh, uh, chat, chat transcripts for live items.
Okay.
And, uh, uh, pod, uh, pod ping D
okay.
Uh, Alex, Alex open has open source, the
repository for pod ping D, which sounds like
all things D, which, which is also ironic
because, um, all things D is run by
Kara Swisher, who's a lesbian, who's a lesbian,
which is, uh, this, uh, what does that
have to do with anything?
All things D I'll leave that up to
the listener as an exercise.
Oh, okay.
I'm sorry.
Sorry.
You, you took my brain into a place.
I try not to visit more than twice
a week.
Um, yeah.
Okay.
We got to talk about those two things
next week.
It's been on the list for like three
weeks.
Yeah.
Let's, uh, let's thank, uh, people who have
supported the show.
Uh, and subsequently, uh, so not the board,
the boardroom goes straight into podcast index.org,
uh, keeps everything running.
I'll do the, uh, the live boost that
came in today.
One, two, three, four from salty crayon.
Howdy boardroom today in the boardroom.
Dave goes all in on that MRE lunch
to clog the pipes.
Hey, I've been slowly consuming this lunch the
entire show.
I'm almost done.
I haven't had anything to eat today.
Uh, we'll have to, uh, we'll have to
have this on relisten.
Love your pod Sage.
He says a triple seven from Sam Sethi.
Uh, we have added Ellen address support and
backward compatibility to key send.
We also have a transfer sats into true
fans rolling out Monday.
So a true fan's wallet, uh, and bring
your sats.
So get a true fan's wallet and bring
your sats.
Oh, excellent.
Very good.
Um, a thousand from Eastside, Tony, ITM boardroom
testing my Albi hub via podverse, getting ready
for booster Graham ball live.
See you in Austin, Adam.
Yes.
Uh, reminder, uh, December 16th.
Anton's Austin is going to be a hootenanny.
I already saw Boobury has put together and,
um, a neon booster Graham ball sign that
will be controllable through a specific boost numbers.
Sweet.
So it's going to be fantastic.
Had a great meeting today.
I'm very excited about it.
And did Boobury set that up for you?
Boob with Eric PP.
Eric PP.
Yeah.
I've had enough.
I just have to show up.
I mean, this is the easiest gig for
me.
I'm this is everyone knows just tell Adam
where to be and he'll be there and
he'll do his thing because that's, that's what
I'm good at.
And everything else has just been done.
Dovey Doss is involved.
The music mama, the Costello's everybody's all an
open mic.
Everyone's in this is a perfect example of
how beautiful this group can be.
Um, one 11 from sir.
TJ, the raffle.
Uh, oh yeah.
It's just, we had a small problem in
sovereign feeds, deleting existing splits.
Turns out to be a viewport issue.
If you go full screen with sovereign feeds,
you hover over the trash icon.
It turns red.
You can delete it.
I got that on the fly.
Thank you very much.
Stephen bell.
Um, be dancy.
Uh, oh, he said pod is weekly review
or just, I was playing pod in his
weekly review while we were waiting for you.
Um, then we have 10,001 Oh one.
Thank you.
C dubs from C dubs.
She has my concern with pod pay is
trusting specific end pubs from hosted providers.
Boots CLI has no server and would always
be signed by the user.
Oscar said this should be fine.
I'll try to find some proof of concept
for boost CLI.
Boost bot will be harder because it requires
a web server and domain for the LN
URL.
I have no idea what that means.
Well, I mean, this is the same problem
as PKI, the public key infrastructure.
I mean, always trusting.
I mean, you have to decide who you're
going to trust.
I mean, there isn't, there's no, there's no
trust.
No one in PKI.
Right.
And that's essentially, this is going to suffer
from the same problem, but you know, you
have, you eventually build up a web of
trust of keys of keys that you trust.
Yeah.
And I mean, there's no way there's really
no way around that.
We, we know of yet.
Okay.
All right.
That's what I have.
Then I see stuff that you should have
in your, uh, in your readout screen.
Whatever that is your heads up display.
Uh, I got two, two that I somehow
missed two PayPal's that I somehow missed like,
uh, August 3rd.
I mean, this, I was looking through my
email has 1,153 unread messages in it,
in my podcast.
Now you're talking, we're getting there, man.
I'm trying to, uh, it's my all-time
high.
It's ATH beautiful.
1153 ATH, uh, Randall black is five bucks.
He sent us five bucks in August.
Thanks, Randall.
Sorry for missing that.
Um, let's see, we got an $20 from
Zenon entertainment.
Yeah.
Nick is Zenon.
Thank you, Nick.
Appreciate it.
And he says in his message in here
is, can you please remove the following feeds
from the index, which I clearly never did
since I just saw this.
We'll fix it.
So that's not good.
Jesse Hunter gave us $10.
Thank you, Jesse.
Appreciate that.
Uh, and this is going to be, this
is going to be monthlies as well in
here.
And remember you have to get comics for
comics or blogger.
Uh, you have to get his, uh, I
got him.
I got it.
All right, cool.
Yeah.
These are the monthly PayPal.
These are a mix of one awesome monthly
PayPal's here.
Um, Chad Faro, $20 and 22 cents.
Thank you, Chad.
F appreciate you.
Uh, Cameron rose $25.
Thank you, Cameron.
Uh, Kevin Bay, $5.
Thanks, Kevin.
Uh, Mark Graham, $1, uh, pod page.
That's Brendan.
We just talked about pod page earlier.
$25.
Thanks guys.
Uh, new media.
That is a Martin Lindesco $1.
Uh, and here's the December from Randall black
to accompany his August.
Wow.
For the previous one, $5.
Okay.
And Joseph Morocco, $5.
Uh, Oscar Mary, $200.
Thank you.
Oscar.
I'll give you a little baller for that,
brother.
Thank you so much.
And upbeat, the upbeats music podcasts in us.
$11 and 11 cents with a note.
Salty crayon.
Yes.
Thank you.
Salty says just a short row of cut
bucks before we kick off the Christmas giving
season of sets, the pongs, juicing the Jason's
and slashing the pseudo's in the pipe.
I like it.
Good one.
Yeah.
I like this.
Um, we got some boosts here.
Let me scroll down.
All right.
We got, uh, Steve Webb.
Oh, Hey, Steve.
Uh, right there.
Yeah.
Striper boost.
Great sound.
Heard it on podcasting 2.0. Uh, we
got 20,000 sats from, uh, Chris lass
from Chris at Jupiter.
He says, happy to help test and transition
things at Jupiter broadcasting as apt transition off
the Albie API.
After listening today, my biggest concern would be
losing the info in the TLV record and
how to handle the transition in our value
tags.
Yes, Chris, I think we've, we're, we're working
on that.
Yep.
Stay tuned.
Yeah.
Jump in the, uh, jump in the discussion
over there, Chris at, uh, discussion, six 76
on the repo.
That's right.
In the show notes, uh, 1701 be Dentsy
true fans zap from episode two Oh one
fugue state.
Thank you.
Be Dentsy.
Uh, we've got Scott and that is spelled
S dot C dot O dot T dot
T.
3420 sats through podcast.
I'm also on the spectrum and certain sounds
can be extremely amplified for me.
You know, okay.
So he was, he was boosting this live
during the last show because when I did
the update to roadcaster, they completely screwed up
something.
I haven't quite figured it out yet.
Um, and so my noise gate was tripping
and it was all kinds of stuff going
on.
He said he could hear my vape, although
I'm very careful to mute when I vape.
Um, and, uh, I, I'm very disappointed in
road for doing that.
So they, they upgraded, they upgraded my experience
and they ruined my processing settings.
So I've been dialing in every single podcast
all over again.
Um, are you taking screenshots?
It's has, it's impossible to do.
Um, I just do it by ear and,
and I save it.
I save frequently.
Um, but actually it's given me an opportunity
to reevaluate the processing.
So, uh, it's kind of a good thing,
but I still think that, uh, the technology
company dealing in audio, if you do an
update, it should not change processing.
Shame on you.
Um, I just checked, I haven't done anything
on mine.
I just checked and it says there's a
firmware update available.
Should I do it right now?
Do you really want pain before the weekend?
No, out of London, 1948 sets through podverse.
He says it's been a while since I
could boost live.
Seems like only after I publicly criticized things,
I was able to read off my podcast
apps without me.
I also suffered a 14 million sat loss
in a deliberate attack on my API, exploiting
a technical failure in my coding back here
again, though, boosting live.
All right.
14 million sats is not an insignificant number.
No, no, that's a lot of money.
Uh, sorry to hear that, brother.
Sorry.
Yeah, man, that, that blows dude.
You tripped with the scissors.
Uh, right in the neck, right in the
jugular.
Karen from the memorials podcast, a satchel of
Richards one, one, one, one through fountain.
He says, because I know you guys like
being careful with your words.
Bitcoin is disinflationary, not deflationary.
Thank you.
Good point.
IE more comes out, but at a slower
rate.
Ethereum with its burn mechanism makes it at
times deflationary.
IE there is less of the total supply.
Yes, you're correct.
Disinflationary, not deflationary.
He makes a point.
I believe he's okay.
So deflationary would be.
He actually, the money supply actually goes down.
Yes.
Although there has to be some sort of
steady rate of loss, right?
Yeah.
There has been loss over time.
Probably less now than there used to be.
Oh, there's millions of Satoshi's are gone.
They're just, they're just millions of bitcoins.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Okay.
Interesting.
All right.
Thanks Karen.
Cole McCormick.
One, one, one, one.
Satchel Richards through fountain.
He says, I'm ride or die with fountain.
Thanks for introducing me to Nostra, Oscar.
I see the vision.
No, we've got a believer.
All right.
Laser eyes.
Laser eyes, laser eyes.
Yeah.
Chad F 77, 77 through Curio Castor.
He says, thanks for all you do, Oscar.
Uh, salty crayon.
Satchel Richard through Curio Castor.
He says, ping in the palms, using the
Jason's go podcasting.
Uh, Jew, Jew hole.
Oh, I don't know how to say.
J U H O E E, uh, J
U H O E E M E L
I.
Do you hold them?
Do you hold Emily?
Okay.
I don't know.
Uh, Satchel Richards, uh, through fountain and just
a smiley face.
Thank you.
That's a 22, 22 total boost.
We got a fraction of that.
Gene Everett, 33, 33 through fountain.
He says boost.
Yeah.
Okay.
We can do one of those.
I don't know.
Where is that?
Oh, there we go.
Uh, let's see.
Oh, is this, uh, did you read this
one?
It says, uh, about your vaping.
Yes.
That was the same, same thing.
Yeah.
Okay.
Uh, and let's see.
I have a deep dive into Albie hub.
I'm concerned about failures.
Like you were just talking about.
Let's see.
That's D D Schwartz.
Uh, it says, have you done a deep
dive into Albie hub?
I'm concerned about failures.
Like you were just talking about.
And as a listener, I don't want to
pay upwards of $20 a month for the
cloud version of Albie hub.
So the question is, can I use podcast
guru without an Albie wallet?
And I think the answer to that is
no, not right now.
Not now.
No.
Now, now what, what Jason and Alex over
there have cooked up for that?
I don't, I don't know.
I mean, I'm assuming they're going to try
to allow you to connect to strike, but
that's just an assumption on my part.
I can't, I don't know that for a
fact.
Um, yeah.
So let's stay tuned is all I can
say.
Uh, ginonymous 69 69 and no note.
Thank you.
Ginonymous.
Appreciate that.
And we got the delimiter.
Yeah, go ahead.
I'll say something afterwards.
16,000 sats through fountain.
He says, howdy, Dave and Adam.
Hey there.
Audio fetishists.
Are you tired of podcasts that are about
as stimulating as a flatline?
Do you crave something that tickles your eardrums
in all the right places?
Introducing 20,000 Hertz from www.twentyk.org.
The podcast that'll make you feel like you're
getting a sensual massage from the sound waves
hosted by Dallas Taylor.
This show dives deep into the world of
sound.
It's not just a podcast.
It's an oral assault.
You won't forget.
Yo, CSB.
Thank you.
CSB.
I'm going to strike what I was going
to say.
Thank you.
I'm going to say jet.
This feels chat.
GPT ish.
You think?
Yes.
Chat.
CSB chat.
Chat.
CSB.
That's it.
Chat.
CSB.com.
Everybody.
Uh, that's it.
That's our, that's our group.
Well, thank you all for supporting us.
Value for value.
This is, uh, and actually this will be
in the documentary to how this entire project,
how the podcast index.org, all the machines,
all the, all the aggregators, everything that's running,
it all runs because of you.
We have, uh, liquidity available on the note.
I keep seeing people saying, I can't get
a channel.
Just, just tag me or email me.
Adam mccurry.com.
I'll be happy to open a channel to
you.
That is part of the service that we
provide.
And we appreciate it.
Go to podcast index.org down at the
bottom.
If you want to send us some fiat
fund coupons, there's a big red donate button.
You can send us a PayPal.
And of course we always appreciate your boost.
All right.
Um, you're only 15 minutes late and I,
I got a boogie.
In fact, the show will not be up
as quickly as usual.
Cause I'm running right out of the studio.
I got to go take my dog to
the vet.
Got to get back before the parade closes
off the streets in Fredericksburg.
And you got to get back in this
time to drive the float.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
The big come and take it float.
That's the one.
Yeah.
All right, brother.
Have a great weekend, Dave.
All right, man.
You too, bro.
All right.
Everybody else.
Boardroom participants of podcasting 2.0. Have a
great weekend.
Thank you for being here.
We'll be back next Friday for another edition
of podcasting 2.0. You
have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit
podcastindex.org for more information.
Do it, do it.
Just do it.