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Podcasting 2.0 for February 28th, 2025, episode

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212.

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A song is born.

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Hello, everybody.

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Hello, podcasters.

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Hello, developers.

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Hello, interested people.

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Welcome to Podcasting 2.0. It is the

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board meeting that takes place every week where

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we discuss everything about podcasting, the past, the

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future, and what is yet to come.

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We are, in fact, the only boardroom that

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never reviews the meeting notes.

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I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of

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the Texas hill country and in Alabama, the

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man who will squeeze a banner into any

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app.

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Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones.

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Is it the Fauci wheeze or the Fauci

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squeeze?

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No, it's the Fauci wheeze.

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There we go.

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That's what I sounded like two days ago.

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Yeah, man.

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So last week you were, there you go.

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You had the onset of the flu.

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The onset.

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I like that word, onset.

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Well, it was the onset.

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It makes it sound so dire, though.

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You were an onset of something.

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Yeah, you were.

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What's the term they use during COVID?

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You were, honestly, pre-infection.

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No, when you're infected but it doesn't show.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's a silent killer.

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What was that term again?

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I forget the term.

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Silent spreader.

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No, no, that wasn't it.

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It was.

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Pre-symptomatic.

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Asymptomatic.

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Asymptomatic spread.

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Asymptomatic spread.

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Yes, there it is.

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Asymptomatic spread.

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Yes, yes, yes.

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Oh, yeah.

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I was just spreading it all over the

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place and none the wiser.

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You were typhoid Mary.

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Yes.

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Did you stay home or did you go

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to work?

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Well, I went back to the office Friday.

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By the time I got back to the

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office, I was running a fever.

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I stayed there for about an hour and

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then left home.

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Super spreader.

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Yes, super spreader.

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Exactly.

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You went ahead, contaminated everybody.

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How's the rest of the office?

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Is the office closed now?

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Is that the general idea?

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No.

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Then I was like, guys, I can't handle

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this anymore.

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I feel so bad, so I just left

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and went home.

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I ran a fever through Tuesday and then

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it broke sometime Tuesday afternoon and now I'm

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kind of coming out of it.

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It's all just a bunch of congestion now.

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Well, if it helps any, you sound like

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crap.

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Thanks.

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Just to let you know.

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It's what I was aiming at.

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I hit my target.

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Mission accomplished.

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Yeah.

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So I was in Dallas all week.

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I haven't had any sort of debrief at

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all from you other than it was great.

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I figured I'd give you a debrief on

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the show as it pertains to podcasting.

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Yay.

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So first of all, this is the National

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Religious Broadcasters Conference.

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There's 5,000 people at this conference.

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That's a lot of people.

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That's a lot of people.

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How did it compare size-wise just based

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on your feel to something like Podcast Movement?

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At least twice as big.

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I mean, they had multiple ballrooms, a lot

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less of the small tracks really.

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I mean, this was at the Gaylord Hotel

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in Grapevine, Texas, a little outside of Dallas,

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which is a big hotel.

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It's like a biodome.

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Is it one like in Nashville?

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Like in Nashville that has the whole –

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it's got like a river in it.

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Oh, yeah, the train set that runs through

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the whole place.

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Yeah, a biodome, air pumped in.

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You don't need to leave to go to

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a restaurant.

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They've got everything there.

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At a certain point, I walked outside.

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It had that kind of casino vibe, like

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I need to feel some actual air.

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I just didn't feel right.

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So I was there to do a couple

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of things.

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I was scheduled for two keynotes.

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And the one that I did, I guess

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they were equally as big.

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They were in a ballroom.

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The ballroom was pretty full.

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Compared to Podcast Movement, we had at least

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100 times more people.

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Yay, yay.

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Now, was this a keynote on a particular

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track?

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How did they have this organized?

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Well, they had keynotes every single morning for

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every morning session.

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So this one, although I was there Monday

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and Tuesday, the Wednesday was my keynote day.

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So I had a keynote in the morning

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and a keynote right after lunch.

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Pay attention, Podcast Movement, right after lunch.

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So the first one was scheduled as kind

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of a fireside chat.

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It was my favorite format.

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Oh, nice.

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Yes, fireside chat.

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Is there a fire?

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The fire was in my heart, Dave Jones.

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I got you.

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So I had asked John Fuller if he

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would do that with me, which meant he

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would basically be chatting with me.

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Now, John Fuller is from Focus on the

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Family.

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We know him because he's been a podcaster

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since 2005 or 2006.

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Their suite of programs reaches millions of people

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every single day.

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You've known him personally for a long time,

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right?

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Yeah, many years.

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And I met him a couple of times

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in person.

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And everybody in the business knows John Fuller,

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everybody.

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He's been on air for a long time.

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And I'm not quite sure what his title

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is.

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He's a big boss over there.

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I'm not quite sure what his title is.

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He and Rob Kirkpatrick, I think you met

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both of them at Podcast Movement.

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They were there as well.

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Oh, okay.

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That is his title, Big Boss.

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Big Boss.

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I think it's actually Big Kahuna, I think

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is his business card.

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And I had told him many – I

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had given him my local pitch several times.

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And we had discussed this.

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He was really fantastic.

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I mean, this guy, he knows exactly how

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to do this stuff.

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He's a radio guy.

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So my whole pitch was about the future

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– well, the title of the session was

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The Future of Radio is Local.

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And there were a lot of heads nodding.

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Everybody was in agreement.

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You know, how all radio pretty much has

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given up on local programming.

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They've succumbed, if you will, to national programming,

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which is all syndicated.

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They really don't have the budgets anymore in

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many cases to – you know, just for

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the nature of radio advertising.

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And, of course, many of these stations, probably

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the majority, don't actually have advertising.

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So I'll talk about that.

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It's an important difference with any other conference

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I've been to.

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But when it comes to the importance of

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local, as I've said about podcasts, the radio

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guys get it.

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They're all like, yeah.

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And then when I tell them, hey, you

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know, for you, it's real easy to find

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a partner in local programming, and that's the

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content factory known as your local church.

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And it was really good.

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And, of course, along with that comes our

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Godcaster solution, which I need to talk about

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because I learned so many important things, and

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there's so much that would pertain to what

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we're doing in podcasting 2.0 and people

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building podcast experiences in general.

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So it was, you know, Fuller was nice

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enough to just keep mentioning Godcaster because you're

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not supposed to pitch in these things.

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You're not supposed to do that.

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No, and he just kept weaving in there

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like really casually.

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He knows what he's doing.

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That's sweet of him, yeah.

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So we were also there to present to

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radio stations this solution, and the solution is

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the transition to digital.

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Now, I learned a lot just by—we had

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some of our existing customers there.

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We're on over 235 stations.

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Well, we're more now after this week, but

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already on 235 stations using Godcaster.

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And they're seeing, in some cases, up to

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50% of their audience moving towards streaming,

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which is a lot.

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That is a lot, yeah.

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And everybody says our over-the-air numbers

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are deteriorating.

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They're going down.

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And up until, you know, really—well, even still

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today, what radio stations do is you go

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to their website, and there's a listen live

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button, you know, which just opens up a

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streaming player, and there's pretty much nothing else

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to do.

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And they always have an on-demand section.

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So they're seeing a lot of their customers

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go from over-the-air to digital station

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websites.

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Also, every single station, almost every single one

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has an app, and that's where they're seeing

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the most uptake.

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So I thought that was interesting because people

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really— I mean, you just can't get around

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the App Store solution.

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People really understand apps.

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Like, what's your—oh, app, okay.

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And so now if they want to tune

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in, they just open up the app, which

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kind of validates the idea.

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Also, when it comes to podcasts, wherever you

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get your podcasts is a very powerful statement,

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and it is definitely not so that a

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lot of people get their podcasts from podcast

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apps.

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That was a big eye-opener for me.

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And we kind of already figured that that

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was the way it was going to go.

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So they all have an on-demand page,

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and this has really been killing them.

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This has been killing these radio stations because

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people will hear a program.

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I'll just take Focus on the Family as

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an example.

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They hear it on the air, and then

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Focus on the Family would say, you know,

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go to Focus on the Family to support

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the program.

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Or people might go to the radio station

279
00:10:07,730 --> 00:10:10,330
website or app, and they see the on

280
00:10:10,330 --> 00:10:10,790
-demand.

281
00:10:10,890 --> 00:10:12,410
If they want to listen there, they tap

282
00:10:12,410 --> 00:10:13,650
on it, and all of a sudden now

283
00:10:13,650 --> 00:10:14,870
they're at Focus on the Family.

284
00:10:15,230 --> 00:10:18,130
The radio station has successfully driven their listener

285
00:10:18,130 --> 00:10:18,570
away.

286
00:10:19,610 --> 00:10:22,490
Yeah, you just did a reach around to

287
00:10:22,490 --> 00:10:23,130
the, yeah.

288
00:10:23,230 --> 00:10:24,450
Just sent them away.

289
00:10:25,310 --> 00:10:27,150
So the business, this is what I like

290
00:10:27,150 --> 00:10:32,330
about this group, and there's thousands of faith

291
00:10:32,330 --> 00:10:33,310
-based radio stations.

292
00:10:33,410 --> 00:10:36,250
This group, they pretty much all run on

293
00:10:36,250 --> 00:10:38,950
a value-for-value model, and it's really

294
00:10:38,950 --> 00:10:40,910
a sharing of revenue.

295
00:10:40,910 --> 00:10:47,070
So when you're listening to a station, the

296
00:10:47,070 --> 00:10:48,990
station will say, support the station.

297
00:10:50,750 --> 00:10:54,070
The program, these national programs will say, you

298
00:10:54,070 --> 00:10:55,490
know, support Focus on the Family.

299
00:10:56,170 --> 00:10:58,030
And then, of course, the donation, the people

300
00:10:58,030 --> 00:11:00,010
go to Focus on the Family to support

301
00:11:00,010 --> 00:11:02,190
the programming, and then there will be a

302
00:11:02,190 --> 00:11:04,090
drop-down box, where did you hear us?

303
00:11:04,390 --> 00:11:05,550
Where did you hear about us?

304
00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:07,470
A lot of people, or I don't know

305
00:11:07,470 --> 00:11:09,710
how much, but there's also a portion of

306
00:11:09,710 --> 00:11:11,650
the audience that will call the 800 number,

307
00:11:12,010 --> 00:11:14,810
and the phone operator is supposed to say,

308
00:11:14,870 --> 00:11:16,250
what station did you hear it on?

309
00:11:16,770 --> 00:11:21,990
Based upon that data, the national programming will

310
00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:24,390
share a piece of that revenue back to

311
00:11:24,390 --> 00:11:26,990
the station with predictable results.

312
00:11:28,030 --> 00:11:29,690
That's a long way around.

313
00:11:29,890 --> 00:11:31,190
Yes, predictable.

314
00:11:32,490 --> 00:11:35,710
That is not high fidelity.

315
00:11:36,390 --> 00:11:39,890
Well, so they call this attribution in the

316
00:11:39,890 --> 00:11:40,290
business.

317
00:11:41,070 --> 00:11:44,410
So on the webpage, there's a little drop

318
00:11:44,410 --> 00:11:46,730
-down box, and of course, almost nobody uses

319
00:11:46,730 --> 00:11:48,790
the drop-down box, so that field comes

320
00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:49,350
in empty.

321
00:11:50,250 --> 00:11:53,410
So they don't know where this listener came

322
00:11:53,410 --> 00:11:56,250
from, and often these phone services will just

323
00:11:56,250 --> 00:11:58,550
forget to ask where the person heard about

324
00:11:58,550 --> 00:11:59,590
the program.

325
00:12:00,650 --> 00:12:05,450
So apparently, for the last 40 years, they've

326
00:12:05,450 --> 00:12:09,750
had roundtables and forums and all kinds of

327
00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:12,570
discussions about the problem of attribution.

328
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:13,770
Okay.

329
00:12:14,270 --> 00:12:19,370
So we solve that in one way by

330
00:12:19,370 --> 00:12:22,230
using the funding tag in all of the…

331
00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:25,130
So Godcaster, you can fill up your Godcaster

332
00:12:25,130 --> 00:12:27,010
player on the website and in the station

333
00:12:27,010 --> 00:12:30,330
app, and if the feed doesn't have an

334
00:12:30,330 --> 00:12:32,790
attribution, then we'll add the attribution link.

335
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:36,110
So you can click on Donate right there

336
00:12:36,110 --> 00:12:38,570
from the station webpage instead of going away.

337
00:12:38,670 --> 00:12:40,230
You can also listen to the podcast there.

338
00:12:40,870 --> 00:12:44,930
And then we mark that in the station

339
00:12:44,930 --> 00:12:47,890
stats as a donation button clicked for this

340
00:12:47,890 --> 00:12:53,710
program, this episode, and we send off a…

341
00:12:53,710 --> 00:12:55,910
What do you call that, the tag in

342
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:56,330
the URL?

343
00:12:56,750 --> 00:12:59,970
A query parameter, the underscore from equals…

344
00:12:59,970 --> 00:13:01,890
Yeah, the refer tag, I guess.

345
00:13:01,890 --> 00:13:03,510
And the refer both, yeah.

346
00:13:03,770 --> 00:13:06,050
And we also say, so what station?

347
00:13:06,290 --> 00:13:08,270
Do we do by episode or program?

348
00:13:08,430 --> 00:13:09,030
I can't remember.

349
00:13:09,530 --> 00:13:10,130
Both, yeah.

350
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:10,650
Both.

351
00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:12,370
Oh, who was that?

352
00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:13,130
Who's coming in?

353
00:13:13,170 --> 00:13:13,990
10,000 stats.

354
00:13:14,050 --> 00:13:14,750
Thank you very much.

355
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:17,550
10,000.

356
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:18,350
No, Lincoln.

357
00:13:18,750 --> 00:13:19,090
Lincoln.

358
00:13:19,310 --> 00:13:19,650
Lincoln.

359
00:13:20,250 --> 00:13:20,970
Oh, Lincoln.

360
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:21,930
Lincoln, 10,000 stats.

361
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:23,950
Shout-out to Eric PP and team for

362
00:13:23,950 --> 00:13:25,350
bringing Dojo to Start 9.

363
00:13:25,450 --> 00:13:26,230
Absolute rock star.

364
00:13:26,350 --> 00:13:26,710
Dojo.

365
00:13:26,850 --> 00:13:27,710
I don't know what Dojo…

366
00:13:27,710 --> 00:13:28,290
What is Dojo?

367
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:29,310
Dojo?

368
00:13:29,510 --> 00:13:29,850
Dojo?

369
00:13:29,850 --> 00:13:30,010
Dojo?

370
00:13:30,010 --> 00:13:31,050
I don't know what Dojo is.

371
00:13:31,050 --> 00:13:32,410
Trying to figure out what Dojo is.

372
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:33,310
Anyway, I'll continue.

373
00:13:37,050 --> 00:13:41,050
So this solves a big part of the

374
00:13:41,050 --> 00:13:45,090
problem because now the station knows that someone

375
00:13:45,090 --> 00:13:49,190
clicked on the link and the program creator,

376
00:13:49,450 --> 00:13:52,270
I hate the term, program producer, also knows

377
00:13:52,270 --> 00:13:54,670
that it came from that station.

378
00:13:55,270 --> 00:13:57,790
Now, this was like, I literally saw people's

379
00:13:57,790 --> 00:13:58,990
mouths drop open.

380
00:13:58,990 --> 00:13:59,470
What?

381
00:14:00,010 --> 00:14:01,070
You've solved this?

382
00:14:03,370 --> 00:14:04,410
And so…

383
00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:05,790
It wasn't that hard, actually.

384
00:14:05,790 --> 00:14:07,750
Well, here's what was interesting.

385
00:14:08,530 --> 00:14:11,490
The stations loved it, but the program producers

386
00:14:11,490 --> 00:14:12,610
loved it even more.

387
00:14:12,690 --> 00:14:14,950
You have to understand that unlike any other

388
00:14:14,950 --> 00:14:16,110
radio conference or…

389
00:14:16,650 --> 00:14:17,790
I mean, this is a community.

390
00:14:17,950 --> 00:14:21,050
They all want to survive and make it…

391
00:14:21,050 --> 00:14:23,870
Ultimately, everybody wants to spread the gospel, but

392
00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:25,550
they all want to survive, and they know

393
00:14:25,550 --> 00:14:27,790
that one can't survive without the other.

394
00:14:27,790 --> 00:14:30,110
So they really all want to have this

395
00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:30,450
data.

396
00:14:30,570 --> 00:14:35,730
So we saw program producers saying, wow, how

397
00:14:35,730 --> 00:14:36,410
about this?

398
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:40,550
Why don't I tag all my programs for

399
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:41,190
each…

400
00:14:41,190 --> 00:14:45,210
They have ways of tailoring the outro on

401
00:14:45,210 --> 00:14:45,990
their programs.

402
00:14:46,610 --> 00:14:47,310
It's a system called…

403
00:14:47,310 --> 00:14:47,490
Oh, yeah.

404
00:14:47,630 --> 00:14:48,790
Like a…

405
00:14:49,310 --> 00:14:50,630
Dynamic ad insertion.

406
00:14:51,050 --> 00:14:51,970
Yeah, like a post roll.

407
00:14:52,130 --> 00:14:53,470
Exactly, a post roll.

408
00:14:53,470 --> 00:14:55,790
So they all use this system called…

409
00:14:55,790 --> 00:14:56,710
Well, not all, but a lot of them

410
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:59,550
use this system called AMBOSS, and so there's

411
00:14:59,550 --> 00:15:02,950
a thousand tags in there, and they'll say,

412
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:05,490
thank you for listening to Focus on the

413
00:15:05,490 --> 00:15:08,130
Family on WDCA or whatever.

414
00:15:08,830 --> 00:15:08,930
Right.

415
00:15:09,210 --> 00:15:12,450
And these guys were saying, well, we'll just

416
00:15:12,450 --> 00:15:17,710
tag it saying, go to WDCA's website and

417
00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:20,390
click on the donate button so that…

418
00:15:20,390 --> 00:15:21,850
Smash that donate button.

419
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:24,810
Yeah, so they really got into it, and

420
00:15:24,810 --> 00:15:27,470
they're like, can I have a login instead

421
00:15:27,470 --> 00:15:32,870
of building a whole thing from scratch to

422
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:35,170
parse out their server logs?

423
00:15:35,390 --> 00:15:37,150
They would love to have a dashboard.

424
00:15:37,750 --> 00:15:39,810
And it's interesting because the station's like, yeah,

425
00:15:39,850 --> 00:15:40,810
you should give them a dashboard.

426
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:42,550
So, of course, there's another business line for

427
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:44,790
us because we can now build a dashboard

428
00:15:45,310 --> 00:15:49,990
and serve this as a service to the

429
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:50,950
program producers.

430
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:52,350
They all love this.

431
00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:53,350
Interesting.

432
00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:55,550
And they also want, well, even beyond that,

433
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:58,150
they want to know how many plays they're

434
00:15:58,150 --> 00:16:00,670
getting because all they've had is the same

435
00:16:00,670 --> 00:16:01,570
tired old stuff.

436
00:16:01,690 --> 00:16:05,190
They got downloads, and they all said, we

437
00:16:05,190 --> 00:16:06,690
got a lot of people listening in Peru,

438
00:16:06,850 --> 00:16:08,530
but they never send us any donations.

439
00:16:09,710 --> 00:16:10,010
Yeah.

440
00:16:13,090 --> 00:16:15,550
So they all know how poor it is,

441
00:16:15,650 --> 00:16:17,510
and so when they could see actual play

442
00:16:17,510 --> 00:16:20,750
numbers because Godcaster has first-party data, they

443
00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:22,650
all got really excited.

444
00:16:22,850 --> 00:16:25,190
And then, you should write this down on

445
00:16:25,190 --> 00:16:27,490
your notepad, they would love to have time

446
00:16:27,490 --> 00:16:31,410
listened, which of course we can give to

447
00:16:31,410 --> 00:16:33,450
them because they said, I want to know

448
00:16:33,450 --> 00:16:36,230
if someone's dropping out after eight minutes in

449
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:38,590
Arizona but maybe listening all the way through

450
00:16:38,590 --> 00:16:41,590
in Ohio, you know, I can make better

451
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:42,970
content based upon that.

452
00:16:42,970 --> 00:16:44,990
And the beauty of this is that both

453
00:16:44,990 --> 00:16:47,690
sides were happy in sharing that information.

454
00:16:48,390 --> 00:16:51,450
So it was very interesting because now the

455
00:16:51,450 --> 00:16:55,310
station also knows what's working, is the placement

456
00:16:55,310 --> 00:16:58,990
of that program's player in the right spot.

457
00:16:59,530 --> 00:17:02,590
And they all realized that just having a

458
00:17:02,590 --> 00:17:05,170
sample size of a few percent is enough

459
00:17:05,170 --> 00:17:07,950
to determine what's happening on all these stations

460
00:17:07,950 --> 00:17:09,329
that aren't using our system.

461
00:17:09,329 --> 00:17:13,650
So it was really mind-boggling to see

462
00:17:13,650 --> 00:17:15,970
how something that to you and I seemed

463
00:17:15,970 --> 00:17:21,430
like something pretty simple, really, really made an

464
00:17:21,430 --> 00:17:21,930
impact.

465
00:17:22,750 --> 00:17:28,990
Imagine that whole sort of scenario, I imagine

466
00:17:28,990 --> 00:17:35,890
that that probably replays itself in like the

467
00:17:35,890 --> 00:17:38,510
IAB, you know, this just sort of like

468
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:42,230
entrenched way of doing things with like Nielsen

469
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:44,710
ratings and all these kinds of, where they

470
00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:47,090
just find it so hard to move, just

471
00:17:47,090 --> 00:17:48,690
to just make a simple move to the

472
00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:49,430
next step.

473
00:17:49,910 --> 00:17:51,210
Because they don't have the data.

474
00:17:52,170 --> 00:17:55,050
Yeah, or it's just like, because we look

475
00:17:55,050 --> 00:17:57,550
at these, we look at these industries and

476
00:17:57,550 --> 00:18:01,210
these things from the outside and we're like,

477
00:18:01,290 --> 00:18:04,470
well, you know, why is it so hard

478
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:06,590
to just make a simple move like this?

479
00:18:07,670 --> 00:18:11,230
And, you know, I guess it's because, I

480
00:18:11,230 --> 00:18:12,630
don't know, I guess it's because...

481
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:15,330
We're the right time at the right place.

482
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:16,450
That's what's happened here.

483
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:18,250
Yeah, I guess so.

484
00:18:18,370 --> 00:18:19,070
I guess you're right.

485
00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:21,530
Because they all realize that they have to

486
00:18:21,530 --> 00:18:26,870
turn off the generators and transmitters and pull

487
00:18:26,870 --> 00:18:28,270
down the towers eventually.

488
00:18:29,370 --> 00:18:31,430
How long, let me stop you real quick

489
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:33,790
and ask you on that question, how much

490
00:18:33,790 --> 00:18:35,970
money does it cost to run a transmitter?

491
00:18:37,690 --> 00:18:40,990
I mean, is it, how much power is

492
00:18:40,990 --> 00:18:41,290
that?

493
00:18:41,410 --> 00:18:43,370
You can actually, you can kind of calculate

494
00:18:43,370 --> 00:18:43,610
it.

495
00:18:43,690 --> 00:18:47,750
Let me see how much, let's try this.

496
00:18:47,850 --> 00:18:52,070
Does it cost to run a 100, one,

497
00:18:52,170 --> 00:18:57,550
two, three watt radio station in, okay.

498
00:18:58,410 --> 00:19:01,870
I know the AM transmitters are extremely expensive.

499
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:05,150
But, you know, there's a whole bunch of

500
00:19:05,150 --> 00:19:07,150
things that comes along with it.

501
00:19:07,570 --> 00:19:11,510
Let's see, for a 100 kilowatt FM broadcast

502
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:16,470
package, transmitter cables and antennas could cost about

503
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:20,170
$40,000, but $20,000 operating costs.

504
00:19:20,330 --> 00:19:22,950
So it's several thousand dollars a month.

505
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:27,870
So several thousand dollars a month just in

506
00:19:27,870 --> 00:19:28,830
like electricity?

507
00:19:29,010 --> 00:19:30,950
Yeah, basically, yeah.

508
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:31,550
Power.

509
00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:33,050
Power, yeah.

510
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:36,390
Yeah, so that is a significant expense.

511
00:19:36,850 --> 00:19:41,290
If your monthly income is $20,000 or

512
00:19:41,290 --> 00:19:42,690
$25,000, I mean.

513
00:19:42,810 --> 00:19:45,130
And they probably have to pay for the

514
00:19:45,130 --> 00:19:45,970
license too.

515
00:19:47,630 --> 00:19:49,430
Yeah, for the FCC license?

516
00:19:49,530 --> 00:19:50,810
Yeah, sure, yeah.

517
00:19:51,490 --> 00:19:52,730
Yeah, I wonder how much that is.

518
00:19:53,290 --> 00:19:54,550
I don't know.

519
00:19:55,930 --> 00:20:01,060
I mean, Sam had the right idea so

520
00:20:01,060 --> 00:20:03,400
long ago with the river radio model, you

521
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:08,860
know, just distributing everything across, you know, work

522
00:20:08,860 --> 00:20:11,840
from home, people in a local, in a

523
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,680
hyper local, and then you basically start podcast

524
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,500
first, and then you transmit if you want

525
00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:18,760
to.

526
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,640
The difference is Sam was coming from a

527
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,000
zero starting point, had to launch a new

528
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,860
digital audio broadcast signal.

529
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,360
So he was trying to do both at

530
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:31,180
the same time, you know, building up in

531
00:20:31,180 --> 00:20:33,400
a very crowded space.

532
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,760
Well, actually not that DAB.

533
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,240
I mean, everyone has DAB, but there's so

534
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,080
many choices because it's digital.

535
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,020
And these guys, they have their listeners.

536
00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:45,240
They have the listeners, they have them on

537
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,320
broadcast, they have the listeners on streaming.

538
00:20:49,260 --> 00:20:51,380
And I'd actually seen this, but a lot

539
00:20:51,380 --> 00:20:53,760
of modern car radios, when you get out

540
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,900
of range, the car radio will say, would

541
00:20:57,900 --> 00:20:59,500
you like to continue listening digital?

542
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,480
And the car radio will go and find

543
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,540
the stream, presumably in tune in, and then

544
00:21:05,540 --> 00:21:06,420
we'll switch over.

545
00:21:06,540 --> 00:21:08,440
And then actually, I think from that point

546
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,300
on, you're just listening digital and not even

547
00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:11,740
listening to the broadcast signal.

548
00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:13,220
I never knew.

549
00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:14,340
I didn't know that was a thing.

550
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:14,800
Yeah, yeah.

551
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,380
I don't have it in my car, but

552
00:21:17,380 --> 00:21:18,500
I have seen it before.

553
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,080
And so a lot of them mentioned that.

554
00:21:22,420 --> 00:21:25,820
Anyway, so the point is that they all

555
00:21:25,820 --> 00:21:28,800
understood the three main things, which is incorporate

556
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,640
your live stream into your on-demand.

557
00:21:32,780 --> 00:21:35,640
And they're already seeing people no longer clicking

558
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,780
on the listen live button, but going into

559
00:21:37,780 --> 00:21:38,580
the Godcaster.

560
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,920
It's the first, you know, tiles like listen

561
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:42,280
live.

562
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,780
So they're listening live there, and now it's

563
00:21:44,780 --> 00:21:46,800
just one tap away to the program they

564
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,360
might want to listen to on demand, and

565
00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:50,900
they can start to measure this.

566
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,680
What I didn't expect is how excited the

567
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,000
program producers would be about sharing that data.

568
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,440
But they actually all love it because now

569
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,720
they can have a real conversation about money,

570
00:22:02,300 --> 00:22:03,340
you know, what's really working.

571
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,460
And some of these producers, some of them

572
00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:07,600
buy airtime on some of the really larger

573
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:08,220
stations.

574
00:22:08,220 --> 00:22:10,700
And, you know, there's a share back, and

575
00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:12,040
there's all kinds of, you know, so they

576
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,200
also need to know, is my money being

577
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:14,840
well spent?

578
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,500
And I can imagine that there's probably, I

579
00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:21,820
mean, even though there's probably some that are

580
00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:26,540
close to accurate, I bet on balance, I

581
00:22:26,540 --> 00:22:28,320
bet most of them are undercounting.

582
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:29,480
Probably.

583
00:22:29,620 --> 00:22:32,260
So it would be good to see, you

584
00:22:32,260 --> 00:22:33,740
know, better numbers.

585
00:22:34,020 --> 00:22:35,200
I mean, if you're having to go through

586
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,380
this roundabout process of like calling a 1

587
00:22:37,380 --> 00:22:39,320
-800 number and all this stuff to report

588
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,600
your list, I mean, I can't imagine you're

589
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:43,740
going to get a very good response rate.

590
00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:43,980
Oh, no.

591
00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:44,520
It's horrible.

592
00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:47,920
And the beauty of this crowd is that

593
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,960
they're excited about engagement and people listening.

594
00:22:52,180 --> 00:22:54,780
They don't care about the number.

595
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,340
So they'll see 230 plays on one of

596
00:22:58,340 --> 00:23:01,760
their top programs on a Godcast they just

597
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:02,120
installed.

598
00:23:02,220 --> 00:23:04,740
They're super excited because they know that each

599
00:23:04,740 --> 00:23:07,380
one of those people, A, received the message

600
00:23:07,380 --> 00:23:09,740
they wanted to send them, but B, you

601
00:23:09,740 --> 00:23:12,660
know, that could represent a lifetime donor of

602
00:23:12,660 --> 00:23:13,800
$500 a year.

603
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,180
So if they don't care about getting a

604
00:23:16,180 --> 00:23:20,180
million or 10 million downloads, that's irrelevant to

605
00:23:20,180 --> 00:23:20,340
them.

606
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,560
It's totally meaningless.

607
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,980
They all have very sophisticated CRM systems.

608
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,120
They want to have a donor.

609
00:23:28,260 --> 00:23:30,480
They want to continue to message that donor,

610
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:30,980
et cetera.

611
00:23:31,980 --> 00:23:34,360
And again, the big takeaway for me was

612
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:39,640
their listeners, and they're not all old, their

613
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:45,000
listeners are listening where they're being sent to.

614
00:23:45,620 --> 00:23:48,840
So there's a relatively low number is how

615
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,820
I understood it that are, you know, going,

616
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,080
if they're hearing a focus on the family

617
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,380
program, they're not necessarily searching for it in

618
00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:01,320
their app or subscribing to it in an

619
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:01,580
app.

620
00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:03,760
They just go back to the focus on

621
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,900
the family website or to the radio station

622
00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:07,940
website, or the radio station app is a

623
00:24:07,940 --> 00:24:08,360
big one.

624
00:24:08,860 --> 00:24:10,820
Most of these apps have, of course, very

625
00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:14,700
poor podcast, no podcast management.

626
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,220
They'll just post a recent episode.

627
00:24:16,940 --> 00:24:18,680
Maybe there's a couple of tiles in there

628
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,260
that just go from an RSS feed, and

629
00:24:21,260 --> 00:24:22,780
some of them just pop you right out

630
00:24:22,780 --> 00:24:24,920
of the app to the producer's page.

631
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,400
So, you know, it's a very inefficient way

632
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:29,680
of keeping your customer.

633
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,920
I wonder, this is all curious to me

634
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,460
because I wonder what the psychology is there

635
00:24:36,460 --> 00:24:38,460
of not using a podcast app.

636
00:24:39,380 --> 00:24:40,960
And let me tell you where I'm coming

637
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:41,300
from.

638
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:48,960
Like my wife, she has, she's used Overcast

639
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:49,680
for years.

640
00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:52,100
She knows, you know, she's comfortable with it.

641
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:52,920
She knows how to use it.

642
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:58,760
There's nothing there on that front, but she

643
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,220
oftentimes just doesn't.

644
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:01,100
What does she do?

645
00:25:01,860 --> 00:25:03,700
Well, she'll just, you know, just Google for

646
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:06,060
it or she'll, you know, click.

647
00:25:06,140 --> 00:25:08,500
She just finds this content some other way.

648
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:09,160
Yep.

649
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:11,380
And she's even made comments before about how

650
00:25:11,380 --> 00:25:14,200
she just doesn't, like, she finds the whole

651
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,240
idea, like, she doesn't like a podcast app

652
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,840
because I think it goes back to something

653
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,280
you said where you're like that inbox model

654
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,040
where sometimes podcast apps can make you feel

655
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,140
stressed out because you just see all these

656
00:25:28,140 --> 00:25:28,580
episodes.

657
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:29,740
That you haven't listened to.

658
00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:30,000
Yeah.

659
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:31,880
The un-listened to episodes.

660
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:32,380
Absolutely.

661
00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:32,900
Yeah.

662
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,200
And it feels like work.

663
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:35,180
Yeah.

664
00:25:35,380 --> 00:25:36,840
It's not an enjoyable experience.

665
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:42,460
You know, there's something different about, okay, this

666
00:25:42,460 --> 00:25:47,560
is interesting because there's something different about launching,

667
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:53,180
let's say, let's say Hulu or Amazon Prime

668
00:25:53,180 --> 00:25:55,220
or something like that where you have all

669
00:25:55,220 --> 00:25:56,060
this content.

670
00:25:56,620 --> 00:25:59,560
You don't get the same sense of stress.

671
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,700
You're just scrolling through seeing if there's something

672
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:03,780
you want to watch.

673
00:26:04,620 --> 00:26:09,020
But podcast apps stress you out because they

674
00:26:09,020 --> 00:26:11,560
make you feel like, oh, I was supposed

675
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,920
to do this thing and I didn't.

676
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,400
And, like, I think I feel the same

677
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,660
way because what's happened with me is, even

678
00:26:23,660 --> 00:26:25,800
though, you know, I'm always going to be

679
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,180
an app guy, but what happened with me,

680
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,280
though, is, like, during all this testing of

681
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,300
Godcaster, you know, I've subscribed to a whole

682
00:26:37,300 --> 00:26:38,520
bunch of different stations and feeds.

683
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:38,880
A lot of feeds.

684
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:39,380
A lot of feeds.

685
00:26:39,380 --> 00:26:42,440
And, whoa, I mean, like, my Castamatic is

686
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:43,240
blowing up.

687
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:44,860
I mean, if I opened it up, I've

688
00:26:44,860 --> 00:26:47,900
got, you know, 300 episodes of Unless and

689
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:48,280
Stuff.

690
00:26:48,340 --> 00:26:48,500
Yeah.

691
00:26:48,820 --> 00:26:51,180
And I immediately feel this sense of stress.

692
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,260
And I'll go a few days at a

693
00:26:53,260 --> 00:26:54,860
time without even opening the app.

694
00:26:56,460 --> 00:26:59,180
Now, I know for me, I just go

695
00:26:59,180 --> 00:27:00,060
in there and clean it out.

696
00:27:00,060 --> 00:27:05,460
But I think maybe other people don't, maybe

697
00:27:05,460 --> 00:27:09,560
they don't think about, they don't want to

698
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,460
babysit an app that way.

699
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,780
And maybe we're already, because what got me

700
00:27:14,780 --> 00:27:17,940
thinking about this is, you were talking about

701
00:27:17,940 --> 00:27:20,560
how they, people like the radio station app,

702
00:27:20,660 --> 00:27:22,840
but they may not necessarily want a podcast

703
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:23,460
app.

704
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,520
But then again, the radio station app, if,

705
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,740
like, let's say that they're firing up like

706
00:27:29,740 --> 00:27:33,640
a Godcaster or something like that, or, you

707
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,660
know, some kind of PWA app, then they're

708
00:27:36,660 --> 00:27:39,300
just seeing sort of just the on-demand

709
00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:40,700
available menu.

710
00:27:40,980 --> 00:27:41,160
Yeah.

711
00:27:41,540 --> 00:27:43,180
The guide, so to speak.

712
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,780
You're not seeing, here's all the episodes you

713
00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:46,820
haven't listened to yet.

714
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:47,900
And it's curated.

715
00:27:49,420 --> 00:27:49,900
Yeah.

716
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:50,880
I don't know.

717
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,080
That may be a, that may be a

718
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,700
really, that may be a significant defect to

719
00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:59,240
mass adoption when it comes to podcast apps.

720
00:27:59,500 --> 00:28:00,780
I completely agree.

721
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,680
And that is just a, it kind of

722
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,120
reinforced for me the reason why YouTube is

723
00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:08,920
seen as a podcast place.

724
00:28:09,580 --> 00:28:12,480
It's not because you need to have video.

725
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:13,480
It just isn't.

726
00:28:14,420 --> 00:28:17,640
It's because, oh, it's on YouTube.

727
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:18,560
I just go there.

728
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,440
Boom, I've got it.

729
00:28:20,180 --> 00:28:24,660
You know, if you tell someone, go listen

730
00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:28,460
to this podcast at WDCA.com, people will

731
00:28:28,460 --> 00:28:29,880
go there and they'll probably go back there.

732
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:30,980
That's where I get this podcast.

733
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:34,380
They don't think the way, where we're coming

734
00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:35,140
from anymore.

735
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:36,320
Yeah.

736
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,740
You know, that this is, all podcasts are

737
00:28:38,740 --> 00:28:39,380
in this app.

738
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,840
Because, first of all, they're not.

739
00:28:41,380 --> 00:28:42,280
They're just not anymore.

740
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,200
Not all podcasts are in every app.

741
00:28:45,340 --> 00:28:46,700
My stuff is not on Spotify.

742
00:28:47,620 --> 00:28:49,860
It hasn't hurt my numbers at all.

743
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,740
It hasn't hurt our donations at all.

744
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,620
People just go somewhere else to get that

745
00:28:55,620 --> 00:28:57,260
particular podcast.

746
00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:02,860
So there is a change in psychology for

747
00:29:02,860 --> 00:29:03,220
sure.

748
00:29:03,940 --> 00:29:06,540
And that's really just the number of what

749
00:29:06,540 --> 00:29:08,000
people call platforms.

750
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,620
Like, oh, no, I get that on Rumble.

751
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,160
But I get Rogan on YouTube.

752
00:29:12,300 --> 00:29:15,260
And I get No Agenda on noagendashow.net.

753
00:29:15,260 --> 00:29:16,940
There's a lot of people that use the

754
00:29:16,940 --> 00:29:17,540
player there.

755
00:29:18,540 --> 00:29:20,180
And I'm always amazed.

756
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,720
And I know that Tina, she's listening to

757
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,440
stuff just by clicking a play button on

758
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,260
her iPad all the time.

759
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,020
The only time she uses Fountain is when

760
00:29:29,020 --> 00:29:30,280
she wants to send a boost.

761
00:29:31,940 --> 00:29:34,140
Well, see, Melissa sent me a thing the

762
00:29:34,140 --> 00:29:36,120
other day to listen to an interview.

763
00:29:38,740 --> 00:29:40,880
And she sent it to me.

764
00:29:40,940 --> 00:29:42,740
And it was like a link to somebody's

765
00:29:42,740 --> 00:29:44,340
Substack webpage.

766
00:29:44,340 --> 00:29:46,160
Another place to get a podcast.

767
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:46,960
Yeah.

768
00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:48,660
And so I'm like, well, you know, because

769
00:29:48,660 --> 00:29:51,700
this is just something that's not in...

770
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,160
It's just not in a traditional podcast app.

771
00:29:54,580 --> 00:29:57,000
You know, we had this idea with the...

772
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,660
Not the idea, but I mean, we had

773
00:29:58,660 --> 00:30:02,620
this conviction with the News River that...

774
00:30:02,620 --> 00:30:03,160
Yeah.

775
00:30:03,860 --> 00:30:04,660
Freedom Controller.

776
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:05,940
With Freedom Controller.

777
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,900
Yeah, that we didn't want it to be

778
00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:10,040
an inbox style thing.

779
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,460
That we just wanted to be this, you

780
00:30:11,460 --> 00:30:13,440
know, sort of river of news style.

781
00:30:14,340 --> 00:30:17,480
And yeah, maybe inboxes just, you know, maybe

782
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,420
that idea is showing its age.

783
00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:22,720
Well, I think so.

784
00:30:22,900 --> 00:30:23,900
I think there's a...

785
00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:28,120
We've seen a massive shift from people using

786
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,900
email and corporations to using Slack.

787
00:30:31,060 --> 00:30:33,900
Although that has its own stressful issues because

788
00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:35,680
you can see how many unread messages there

789
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:35,960
are.

790
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,220
People are using Telegram groups.

791
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,560
And they're missing stuff.

792
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,940
But, you know, because Telegram group is basically

793
00:30:43,940 --> 00:30:46,280
a river of news, a river of posts.

794
00:30:47,260 --> 00:30:49,300
You're never going to scroll back very far

795
00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:49,740
in that thing.

796
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:50,000
No.

797
00:30:50,260 --> 00:30:50,820
Because it's just a pain in the butt

798
00:30:50,820 --> 00:30:51,340
to do it.

799
00:30:51,420 --> 00:30:52,920
No, and people repost stuff.

800
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,460
You can catch up and you still have

801
00:30:54,460 --> 00:30:56,720
your ads and all that and your replies

802
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:57,680
and stuff like that.

803
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,560
Well, you know, we all have like...

804
00:31:01,660 --> 00:31:03,840
I bet every single one of us has,

805
00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:09,140
let's say, three podcasts that we just don't

806
00:31:09,140 --> 00:31:09,780
want to miss.

807
00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:14,120
And the rest of them, we're more like,

808
00:31:14,940 --> 00:31:16,740
eh, if I miss them, it's okay.

809
00:31:17,340 --> 00:31:18,660
I'll just pick it up next time.

810
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,780
You know, I'll jump back in some other

811
00:31:21,780 --> 00:31:22,240
time.

812
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:24,180
But there may be just like maybe two

813
00:31:24,180 --> 00:31:26,640
or three that we really do want to

814
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,840
listen to every episode.

815
00:31:28,780 --> 00:31:32,140
And if that's the case, it's really not

816
00:31:32,140 --> 00:31:35,020
that hard to like go to the website.

817
00:31:35,020 --> 00:31:37,640
And I bet it's easy for people to

818
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:42,760
fall back into that thing of like, I'll

819
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,280
just go listen to that thing.

820
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:45,620
I mean, that's what I end up doing

821
00:31:45,620 --> 00:31:46,020
with...

822
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,100
Like America This Week has a live stream

823
00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:51,180
every Monday night on YouTube.

824
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,780
And every Tuesday morning, I go to the

825
00:31:54,780 --> 00:31:58,840
Fire Up YouTube and start listening to the

826
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,820
previous night's live stream.

827
00:32:00,820 --> 00:32:02,640
And it's not...

828
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,960
I mean, I got to go to a

829
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,160
different app to do it, but I do

830
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:05,440
it.

831
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,000
So this whole thing reminds me of the

832
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,940
movie A Song is Born, which you've probably

833
00:32:13,940 --> 00:32:14,700
not seen.

834
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:15,940
I've seen it twice.

835
00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:17,300
It's from 1948.

836
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,060
Is that the one with Barbra Streisand?

837
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,540
No, that's A Star is Born.

838
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,780
No, A Song is Born stars Danny Kaye.

839
00:32:32,460 --> 00:32:33,640
Oh, Danny Kaye.

840
00:32:33,820 --> 00:32:34,160
Yes.

841
00:32:34,380 --> 00:32:36,720
Well, so I'll read the...

842
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,000
I actually pulled up the Wikipedia page.

843
00:32:39,060 --> 00:32:40,980
I'll read you the first paragraph here.

844
00:32:41,660 --> 00:32:44,460
In the Totten Foundation's Victorian mansion in New

845
00:32:44,460 --> 00:32:47,340
York City, mild-mannered professor Hobart Frisbee, that's

846
00:32:47,340 --> 00:32:50,120
Danny Kaye, and his seven fellow academics are

847
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,740
writing and recording a comprehensive musical encyclopedia.

848
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,400
They've been living cut off from the world

849
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,680
for nine years, living without a radio.

850
00:32:58,660 --> 00:33:01,620
And so then these two window washers, seeking

851
00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:05,440
help with a radio quiz, they discover that

852
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,200
this group, who's been writing this full-on

853
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,240
comprehensive musical encyclopedia, but have been cut off

854
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,680
the world for nine years, without their knowledge,

855
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,840
swing, jive, jump, blues, Dixie, boogie-woogie, bebop,

856
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,180
all of this has exploded.

857
00:33:21,180 --> 00:33:23,380
And they didn't even know about it.

858
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:25,920
Oh, I get it.

859
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:26,860
You see the analogy?

860
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:27,860
Yeah.

861
00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:30,580
Where we've been very heads down and concerned

862
00:33:30,580 --> 00:33:33,720
about video, but video wasn't really the issue.

863
00:33:34,140 --> 00:33:38,360
It's people no longer seeing their podcast app

864
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,500
as the only place to get podcasts, because

865
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:41,660
I can get them here, I can get

866
00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:42,020
them there.

867
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,000
So the question is, what interfaces can you

868
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,300
build that work for that certain audience?

869
00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:51,700
And I come right back to, okay, this

870
00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:54,320
is God casters listening to a radio station,

871
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:59,020
but there's also the Rachel Maddow universe where

872
00:33:59,020 --> 00:34:01,200
you need to have something else, including cross

873
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,920
-app comments on Blue Cry, whatever.

874
00:34:04,060 --> 00:34:06,600
And this was completely apparent when I did

875
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,719
my second keynote, which was the future of

876
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:10,440
podcasting.

877
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,600
The first keynote was called what?

878
00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:14,739
The future of radio.

879
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,800
Future of radio, okay, and the second was

880
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:17,659
future of podcasting.

881
00:34:17,659 --> 00:34:17,860
Yes.

882
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:21,820
Now, I started off by saying, I made

883
00:34:21,820 --> 00:34:24,699
very clear that local is a huge market

884
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:27,380
that has been untapped and unserved, and everyone's

885
00:34:27,380 --> 00:34:30,420
like, oh, yeah, wow, hadn't thought of that

886
00:34:30,420 --> 00:34:30,620
one.

887
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:36,860
Then I took your Dallas PowerPoint and I

888
00:34:36,860 --> 00:34:39,040
deleted some stuff and I made it a

889
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:40,860
little less technical here and there and added

890
00:34:40,860 --> 00:34:41,520
some screenshots.

891
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:43,179
By the way, I learned an important lesson.

892
00:34:43,179 --> 00:34:48,480
When you are using PowerPoint and then on

893
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,080
your own laptop you switch to a browser

894
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,860
to demonstrate something, that does not show up

895
00:34:54,860 --> 00:34:56,320
on the screens that are looking at the

896
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:56,720
PowerPoint.

897
00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:00,000
Not if you're in presentation mode, that is

898
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:00,200
for sure.

899
00:35:00,220 --> 00:35:01,180
Well, I didn't know that.

900
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:02,800
Okay.

901
00:35:03,260 --> 00:35:05,680
And I'm like, look how cool this is,

902
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:06,660
and I'm like, ah.

903
00:35:07,420 --> 00:35:08,420
And then Daniel J.

904
00:35:08,580 --> 00:35:09,820
Lewis was sitting in the front row.

905
00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:11,620
He's like, Adam, it's not showing on the

906
00:35:11,620 --> 00:35:11,960
screen.

907
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:12,800
Thank you, Daniel J.

908
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:13,020
Lewis.

909
00:35:13,100 --> 00:35:13,700
That was awesome.

910
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:15,260
The savior.

911
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:15,760
Yeah.

912
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,380
So I had to quit out of presentation

913
00:35:17,380 --> 00:35:19,760
mode, show the browser, then go back to

914
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:20,680
presentation mode.

915
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,200
So it was a lot of alt-tabbing

916
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,740
around, but got through it.

917
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:26,860
Okay.

918
00:35:27,020 --> 00:35:30,960
And every single feature I showed, there were,

919
00:35:31,380 --> 00:35:32,340
you know, it was like this.

920
00:35:32,740 --> 00:35:34,780
And then we have these things called crowd

921
00:35:34,780 --> 00:35:35,360
chapters.

922
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:36,920
Cloud chapters.

923
00:35:37,820 --> 00:35:41,740
You know, and even, you know, the funding

924
00:35:41,740 --> 00:35:43,760
tag, like, you know, you can actually have

925
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,100
a support button right here.

926
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,220
You know, people just like audible gasps, audible

927
00:35:49,220 --> 00:35:49,860
gasps.

928
00:35:50,460 --> 00:35:52,620
And I also showed value for value.

929
00:35:53,020 --> 00:35:58,960
I mean, people loved it.

930
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,600
And, you know, no one had any problems

931
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,160
with Satoshis or Bitcoin.

932
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,800
You know, they just saw money going because

933
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,460
they understand value for value.

934
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:09,840
This is what this crowd is.

935
00:36:10,220 --> 00:36:12,880
And afterwards, that was the most exciting part.

936
00:36:12,940 --> 00:36:14,240
You know, there's always a line of like

937
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:15,600
10 people who want to come and talk

938
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:15,900
to you.

939
00:36:16,060 --> 00:36:18,360
And they said, you know, I use Buzzsprout.

940
00:36:18,460 --> 00:36:20,340
And I'd seen this feature, but I didn't

941
00:36:20,340 --> 00:36:21,340
really know what it did.

942
00:36:22,980 --> 00:36:23,780
Oh, interesting.

943
00:36:24,340 --> 00:36:26,000
And it shows you about the education the

944
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,480
hosting companies are or are not doing.

945
00:36:28,580 --> 00:36:31,000
I'm not saying they're not educating, but it's

946
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,060
not getting through to everybody.

947
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:32,880
It's not getting through.

948
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:33,200
Yeah.

949
00:36:34,380 --> 00:36:36,240
And so a lot of them were saying,

950
00:36:36,340 --> 00:36:39,040
OK, so I could make my own interface

951
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,220
using these features and they'll all show up.

952
00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:43,760
Yes, you can.

953
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,580
And or you can tell people to use

954
00:36:48,580 --> 00:36:49,480
a different app.

955
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:53,760
This group really got it.

956
00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:54,940
They really did.

957
00:36:56,060 --> 00:36:57,560
And who was your audience here?

958
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,020
Was this still radio stations in the room

959
00:37:02,020 --> 00:37:02,920
or was this podcasters?

960
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,400
Radio stations, I would say program producers.

961
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,200
Every person who produces a program for these

962
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,360
radio stations, these syndicated programmers, they all have

963
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:14,000
a podcast.

964
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,880
And so now they're thinking, how can I

965
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,560
make my environment more interesting?

966
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,120
And how can I make it more interesting

967
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:24,080
on the stations?

968
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,240
Because the stations ultimately, whether they're over the

969
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:30,840
air or streaming live, people are listening to

970
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,820
them and they're telling people what's coming.

971
00:37:33,980 --> 00:37:35,360
They're promoting the programming.

972
00:37:35,660 --> 00:37:37,940
They're saying, go listen to it on demand.

973
00:37:39,140 --> 00:37:42,080
So, again, that's the beauty of this group

974
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,960
is they're not like, I want it all.

975
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,440
No, they need the station to be promoting

976
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,200
them as much as they promote themselves.

977
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,720
Because when the station promotes them, then people

978
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:54,080
are much more or not much more are

979
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,540
very willing to support the programming and the

980
00:37:56,540 --> 00:37:59,240
station because it's explained that way.

981
00:37:59,380 --> 00:38:01,460
You know, support our station, support the programming.

982
00:38:01,460 --> 00:38:04,820
So I'm seeing a lot of customization coming

983
00:38:04,820 --> 00:38:09,640
in from the content producers who are going

984
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,480
to say, support me in this manner, i

985
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,880
.e. click on the funding button, the donation

986
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,240
button, which is kind of a call to

987
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:22,080
action for any podcast app developers who don't

988
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:23,600
have that, who don't surface that.

989
00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:30,220
And by the way, why wouldn't you, as

990
00:38:30,220 --> 00:38:34,080
an app developer, track that and reach out

991
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:34,580
to people?

992
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,600
I mean, you can replicate that system that

993
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:38,980
we put in there.

994
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,960
You know, that's not that hard.

995
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,400
And of course, a lot of the stations,

996
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,160
they want to have this functionality in their

997
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:48,640
own app.

998
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,520
They want to be a podcast app for

999
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,980
the programming that they have relationships with along

1000
00:38:56,980 --> 00:38:57,940
with their live stream.

1001
00:38:58,940 --> 00:39:01,060
So, I mean, the meetings we had were

1002
00:39:01,060 --> 00:39:05,060
people just literally going, wow, I can't believe

1003
00:39:05,060 --> 00:39:05,940
you solved this.

1004
00:39:06,340 --> 00:39:07,580
This is the future for us.

1005
00:39:07,660 --> 00:39:08,800
This is the way we got to go.

1006
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,060
And very often you'd have like an older

1007
00:39:11,060 --> 00:39:15,560
guy, you know, mid-60s to mid-70s

1008
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:16,800
who started the station.

1009
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:17,860
It's the owner.

1010
00:39:18,540 --> 00:39:21,820
And a lot of them have, you know,

1011
00:39:21,900 --> 00:39:27,960
own multiple stations and certainly tens of repeaters,

1012
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,320
which they all localize.

1013
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,880
And then maybe a somewhat younger 40 to

1014
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,080
50 general manager or program director.

1015
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,620
And it would be the older station owner

1016
00:39:39,620 --> 00:39:41,720
who's saying, this is the way.

1017
00:39:42,540 --> 00:39:46,340
Local content, drive them towards a website, drive

1018
00:39:46,340 --> 00:39:48,940
them towards our app, make all the numbers

1019
00:39:48,940 --> 00:39:51,420
available to everybody so that we can all

1020
00:39:51,420 --> 00:39:54,760
get the support we need and have the

1021
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:55,980
tide rise all boats.

1022
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,520
It was a phenomenal, phenomenal experience to see

1023
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,640
people kind of seeing for the first time

1024
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,020
what podcasting 2.0 features can do.

1025
00:40:07,140 --> 00:40:07,740
Interesting.

1026
00:40:07,740 --> 00:40:09,280
And podcasting in general.

1027
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,060
But the 2.0 features, that kind of

1028
00:40:11,060 --> 00:40:13,780
was the extra special sauce, particularly the funding

1029
00:40:13,780 --> 00:40:14,200
tag.

1030
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,020
I'm having my...

1031
00:40:19,020 --> 00:40:20,220
And by the way, let me just say,

1032
00:40:20,860 --> 00:40:23,280
when we talk about Christian programming, I want

1033
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,420
people to know that Glenn Beck is Christian

1034
00:40:25,420 --> 00:40:25,960
programming.

1035
00:40:26,420 --> 00:40:26,580
All right.

1036
00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:27,700
It's Christian worldview.

1037
00:40:28,300 --> 00:40:30,200
It's not all, oh, Jesus.

1038
00:40:30,700 --> 00:40:31,580
Oh, Lordy.

1039
00:40:31,980 --> 00:40:33,380
It's not all sermons.

1040
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,500
I mean, it's programs you've probably listened to.

1041
00:40:37,500 --> 00:40:43,680
Charlie Kirk, you know, totally contemporary Christian radio

1042
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:44,300
programming.

1043
00:40:45,020 --> 00:40:48,140
Charlie Kirk crosses over way beyond that.

1044
00:40:48,940 --> 00:40:51,760
So, you know, there's big, big, big shows

1045
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,700
that are in this arena, both broadcast and

1046
00:40:55,700 --> 00:40:56,820
they all podcast.

1047
00:40:59,110 --> 00:41:03,690
Did you talk to any of the publishers?

1048
00:41:05,530 --> 00:41:05,850
What do you mean?

1049
00:41:05,850 --> 00:41:07,770
I mean, like people like Focus on the

1050
00:41:07,770 --> 00:41:08,030
Family.

1051
00:41:08,110 --> 00:41:08,290
Yeah.

1052
00:41:09,290 --> 00:41:11,910
That's what I call the program producers.

1053
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:13,010
Oh, OK.

1054
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:13,670
I see what you mean.

1055
00:41:14,030 --> 00:41:15,550
I thought you're talking about a job title.

1056
00:41:15,630 --> 00:41:17,210
You're talking about the actual...

1057
00:41:17,210 --> 00:41:18,150
No, the publisher.

1058
00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:18,690
Oh, yeah.

1059
00:41:18,770 --> 00:41:18,930
No.

1060
00:41:18,970 --> 00:41:20,590
Those are the ones who are so excited.

1061
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:22,090
They're like, I'm going to change.

1062
00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:23,430
I'm going to do local tags.

1063
00:41:23,550 --> 00:41:25,350
I want to drive people towards the app.

1064
00:41:25,410 --> 00:41:27,390
Tell them to click on the donation button

1065
00:41:27,390 --> 00:41:31,010
at the station, you know, because they still

1066
00:41:31,010 --> 00:41:31,590
get the numbers.

1067
00:41:31,630 --> 00:41:32,490
They don't really care.

1068
00:41:32,490 --> 00:41:36,050
You know, they're not trying to, you know,

1069
00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:38,730
take the listener away from the station.

1070
00:41:38,810 --> 00:41:40,830
They have to work with the station because

1071
00:41:40,830 --> 00:41:43,790
the station brings the new listeners in, promotes

1072
00:41:43,790 --> 00:41:44,830
them continuously.

1073
00:41:46,330 --> 00:41:48,910
Now, the one other thing that was interesting...

1074
00:41:48,910 --> 00:41:50,690
You could say that the station is their

1075
00:41:50,690 --> 00:41:51,630
biggest advocate.

1076
00:41:52,270 --> 00:41:53,150
It's their pod role.

1077
00:41:53,370 --> 00:41:54,990
The station is their pod role.

1078
00:41:55,930 --> 00:41:57,310
That's exactly what it is.

1079
00:41:57,490 --> 00:41:58,310
It's their pod role.

1080
00:41:58,850 --> 00:42:01,230
And the station can also recommend stuff.

1081
00:42:01,230 --> 00:42:04,330
And, you know, there was many, many ideas.

1082
00:42:04,530 --> 00:42:04,990
Many ideas.

1083
00:42:05,130 --> 00:42:05,630
The thing that...

1084
00:42:05,630 --> 00:42:09,070
As an interesting side note, I was talking

1085
00:42:09,070 --> 00:42:10,970
to my buddy Matt Mundt, and I met

1086
00:42:10,970 --> 00:42:13,230
him in Nashville.

1087
00:42:13,950 --> 00:42:15,210
I met him in Dallas and in Nashville,

1088
00:42:15,310 --> 00:42:16,530
two different occasions.

1089
00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:17,630
And he's there.

1090
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:21,050
And then he does social media for contemporary

1091
00:42:21,050 --> 00:42:22,310
Christian music artists.

1092
00:42:22,750 --> 00:42:25,510
So Matthew West being the most notable, but

1093
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:28,350
he does many, many campaigns for people.

1094
00:42:28,350 --> 00:42:34,010
And so music programming has become pretty much

1095
00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:37,950
consolidated into one station called K-Love.

1096
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:43,430
The other network of music stations owned by

1097
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:46,750
Salem Broadcasting, they just recently sold all their

1098
00:42:46,750 --> 00:42:48,750
music stations to K-Love.

1099
00:42:48,750 --> 00:42:51,510
Because, you know, when you're just playing music,

1100
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:54,490
you know, it's hard to, you know, do

1101
00:42:54,490 --> 00:42:56,850
a donation drive and get people to support

1102
00:42:56,850 --> 00:42:57,190
you.

1103
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:59,910
And the cost of running the transmitters was

1104
00:42:59,910 --> 00:43:00,670
just too much.

1105
00:43:01,610 --> 00:43:04,630
K-Love, they are a monster.

1106
00:43:04,970 --> 00:43:06,530
I don't know how many, they may have

1107
00:43:06,530 --> 00:43:07,470
a thousand stations.

1108
00:43:07,690 --> 00:43:12,750
They own the Christian, contemporary Christian music space.

1109
00:43:13,530 --> 00:43:14,790
And they also stream.

1110
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:16,850
But they own all these transmitters.

1111
00:43:17,650 --> 00:43:20,530
And the end result is that they do

1112
00:43:20,530 --> 00:43:23,250
about $300 million a year in revenue.

1113
00:43:24,130 --> 00:43:24,770
K-Love does?

1114
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:25,170
Oh, yeah.

1115
00:43:25,170 --> 00:43:27,510
And they're very sophisticated because they have a

1116
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:27,950
ministry.

1117
00:43:28,490 --> 00:43:30,310
And they, you know, they have all kinds

1118
00:43:30,310 --> 00:43:31,790
of trips and cruises.

1119
00:43:32,590 --> 00:43:37,690
And, you know, they know what they're doing.

1120
00:43:37,930 --> 00:43:38,890
Let me put it this way.

1121
00:43:39,010 --> 00:43:40,710
They really know what they're doing.

1122
00:43:41,110 --> 00:43:43,570
The problem is they're a nonprofit.

1123
00:43:44,590 --> 00:43:45,890
That's not a problem for them.

1124
00:43:46,450 --> 00:43:49,670
But they pay very low ASCAP BMI fees.

1125
00:43:50,310 --> 00:43:53,290
And all of these artists now really only

1126
00:43:53,290 --> 00:43:54,270
have one outlet.

1127
00:43:54,270 --> 00:43:55,170
It's K-Love.

1128
00:43:55,590 --> 00:43:58,010
And they're not making much money at all.

1129
00:43:58,130 --> 00:43:59,430
And then they look at K-Love and

1130
00:43:59,430 --> 00:44:01,730
say, well, K-Love makes $300 million a

1131
00:44:01,730 --> 00:44:01,950
year.

1132
00:44:02,090 --> 00:44:03,670
And they make it off of my music.

1133
00:44:04,050 --> 00:44:05,990
And I'm not really getting anything.

1134
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:12,990
This is the spiritual Spotify effect.

1135
00:44:13,310 --> 00:44:15,110
And, of course, these artists have the same

1136
00:44:15,110 --> 00:44:16,010
issue with Spotify.

1137
00:44:16,330 --> 00:44:18,210
They don't make money off of Spotify either.

1138
00:44:18,530 --> 00:44:19,230
Right, right.

1139
00:44:19,230 --> 00:44:21,690
So this is starting to snowball where now

1140
00:44:21,690 --> 00:44:25,910
K-Love, they've built this $100 million building

1141
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:26,850
in Nashville.

1142
00:44:27,470 --> 00:44:29,210
And the artists can just come there to

1143
00:44:29,210 --> 00:44:29,630
perform.

1144
00:44:29,770 --> 00:44:31,930
They've got big studios, sound stages.

1145
00:44:32,970 --> 00:44:35,910
And I would say 25, maybe 30%

1146
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:38,570
of all the CCM hits right now are

1147
00:44:38,570 --> 00:44:39,710
written by Matthew West.

1148
00:44:39,770 --> 00:44:40,710
It's just his time.

1149
00:44:41,410 --> 00:44:43,410
And, you know, so he looks at this

1150
00:44:43,410 --> 00:44:45,550
building and says, okay, after going to this

1151
00:44:45,550 --> 00:44:47,750
building, I've got to perform like a monkey.

1152
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:49,450
And I just don't get anything out of

1153
00:44:49,450 --> 00:44:49,670
it.

1154
00:44:50,930 --> 00:44:53,150
So I was talking to Matt Mundt and

1155
00:44:53,150 --> 00:44:56,470
he says what this is snowballing into is

1156
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:59,670
the record labels, they no longer need national

1157
00:44:59,670 --> 00:45:00,670
promotion people.

1158
00:45:01,130 --> 00:45:03,370
So the record labels are starting to shut

1159
00:45:03,370 --> 00:45:03,770
down.

1160
00:45:04,890 --> 00:45:08,130
You know, the industry has been so consolidated,

1161
00:45:08,130 --> 00:45:09,210
which is never good.

1162
00:45:09,250 --> 00:45:10,770
I don't care if it's for Jesus or

1163
00:45:10,770 --> 00:45:10,990
not.

1164
00:45:11,050 --> 00:45:13,490
It's never good for an industry to be

1165
00:45:13,490 --> 00:45:14,910
consolidated in that manner.

1166
00:45:14,910 --> 00:45:19,390
And there is a strong interest in value

1167
00:45:19,390 --> 00:45:20,450
for value music.

1168
00:45:21,130 --> 00:45:23,430
I actually showed some of that in my

1169
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:25,210
2.0 demo.

1170
00:45:25,690 --> 00:45:28,140
There's a strong interest in alternative methods.

1171
00:45:28,630 --> 00:45:30,110
And I'm exploring that.

1172
00:45:30,450 --> 00:45:31,930
I'm not sure how that's going to come

1173
00:45:31,930 --> 00:45:32,110
out.

1174
00:45:32,190 --> 00:45:33,490
If we can get a Matthew West to

1175
00:45:33,490 --> 00:45:36,330
put a value for value song up, big

1176
00:45:36,330 --> 00:45:36,650
deal.

1177
00:45:37,410 --> 00:45:40,570
You know, but there's people look and certainly

1178
00:45:40,570 --> 00:45:44,350
the newer artists who can't even get a

1179
00:45:44,350 --> 00:45:46,450
label now anymore because what does a label

1180
00:45:46,450 --> 00:45:47,130
get out of it?

1181
00:45:47,630 --> 00:45:49,010
You know, they're not getting much either.

1182
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:51,210
You know, of course, probably why the labels

1183
00:45:51,210 --> 00:45:52,370
does kind of stopped.

1184
00:45:52,610 --> 00:45:57,590
The labels have really just stopped like generating

1185
00:45:57,590 --> 00:46:02,330
new artists and are really focused on buying

1186
00:46:02,330 --> 00:46:05,170
older back catalogs of stuff now, just as

1187
00:46:05,170 --> 00:46:07,650
sort of like, you know, annuities.

1188
00:46:08,110 --> 00:46:10,290
Well, but that's the publishers, the label.

1189
00:46:10,430 --> 00:46:13,070
So often the label is an arm of

1190
00:46:13,070 --> 00:46:14,150
the publishing company.

1191
00:46:14,410 --> 00:46:16,810
And so what the labels are now doing

1192
00:46:16,810 --> 00:46:18,670
is they're just out there and they'll say,

1193
00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:20,250
Oh, you got some pretty good songs.

1194
00:46:20,450 --> 00:46:21,850
How many followers do you have?

1195
00:46:22,330 --> 00:46:24,490
If you don't have a million followers on

1196
00:46:24,490 --> 00:46:26,330
your social media, they're not going to sign

1197
00:46:26,330 --> 00:46:26,590
you.

1198
00:46:28,070 --> 00:46:30,110
Yeah, this is specifically TikTok.

1199
00:46:30,910 --> 00:46:32,670
TikTok, it's mandatory.

1200
00:46:32,670 --> 00:46:37,670
I mean, even movie actors these days, it's

1201
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:40,370
mandatory that they have a TikTok and an

1202
00:46:40,370 --> 00:46:41,150
Instagram account.

1203
00:46:41,310 --> 00:46:42,210
They have to post.

1204
00:46:42,330 --> 00:46:44,170
That's all part of what used to be

1205
00:46:44,170 --> 00:46:46,110
the labels job has now become the artist

1206
00:46:46,110 --> 00:46:46,470
job.

1207
00:46:46,530 --> 00:46:48,470
And so artists, of course, are seeing that

1208
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:49,390
it makes more sense.

1209
00:46:49,550 --> 00:46:50,890
Well, why do I need these guys?

1210
00:46:51,850 --> 00:46:53,590
So if I can get to a couple

1211
00:46:53,590 --> 00:46:57,050
of them and I can show them, Hey,

1212
00:46:57,130 --> 00:46:58,790
this is the new way forward.

1213
00:46:58,790 --> 00:47:01,750
And I can point to successes such as

1214
00:47:01,750 --> 00:47:05,610
Boostergram Ball Live and, you know, the Skirmish

1215
00:47:05,610 --> 00:47:08,130
and Behind the Schemes.

1216
00:47:08,330 --> 00:47:10,550
And Ellen Beetz also showed Ellen Beetz, you

1217
00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:13,730
know, talked about all these different things.

1218
00:47:13,770 --> 00:47:14,950
And people were just blown away.

1219
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:16,610
They had no idea that this was all

1220
00:47:16,610 --> 00:47:17,050
possible.

1221
00:47:17,230 --> 00:47:19,050
So we're making an inroad.

1222
00:47:20,510 --> 00:47:23,310
Yeah, that contract between that old sort of

1223
00:47:23,310 --> 00:47:25,850
contract between the label and the...

1224
00:47:25,850 --> 00:47:26,590
It's meaningless.

1225
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:27,270
It's meaningless.

1226
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:28,550
It's gone.

1227
00:47:28,690 --> 00:47:29,110
It's broken.

1228
00:47:29,290 --> 00:47:30,390
It's a broken...

1229
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:31,710
It doesn't work that way anymore.

1230
00:47:32,030 --> 00:47:34,830
So we still need, you know, we still

1231
00:47:34,830 --> 00:47:35,530
need wallets.

1232
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:41,470
We still need things to work, but there's

1233
00:47:41,470 --> 00:47:43,250
definitely an excitement.

1234
00:47:43,530 --> 00:47:46,090
There's a hunger or a thirst for new

1235
00:47:46,090 --> 00:47:46,950
ways to do it.

1236
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:50,130
And just being there in that capacity, I

1237
00:47:50,130 --> 00:47:51,710
have a lot of people to follow up

1238
00:47:51,710 --> 00:47:51,910
on.

1239
00:47:51,970 --> 00:47:53,250
So I'm very excited about it.

1240
00:47:53,250 --> 00:47:55,730
And then Daniel Day-Lewis had a little

1241
00:47:55,730 --> 00:47:59,390
chat with him, and he reiterated.

1242
00:47:59,530 --> 00:48:01,450
He said, man, you need to be the

1243
00:48:01,450 --> 00:48:03,730
leader of Podcasting 2.0. And I said,

1244
00:48:03,770 --> 00:48:04,570
I'm not so sure.

1245
00:48:05,750 --> 00:48:09,010
I'm not so sure that, you know, A,

1246
00:48:09,170 --> 00:48:11,430
I don't think it's...

1247
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:14,510
Until we have people branching out in different

1248
00:48:14,510 --> 00:48:20,570
arenas with receiving side, doing different types of

1249
00:48:20,570 --> 00:48:22,850
things, that's our...

1250
00:48:22,850 --> 00:48:25,450
This comes back to the Song is Born

1251
00:48:25,450 --> 00:48:25,790
movie.

1252
00:48:26,010 --> 00:48:28,590
You know, we've been a little cloistered, and

1253
00:48:28,590 --> 00:48:32,250
we need to expand our listening experiences.

1254
00:48:34,270 --> 00:48:36,950
So, you know, a company like PodPage, you

1255
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:40,890
know, they have an interesting opportunity because they're

1256
00:48:40,890 --> 00:48:45,490
basically creating podcast receiving stations inside their websites.

1257
00:48:46,330 --> 00:48:50,030
I mean, and, you know, True Fans is

1258
00:48:50,030 --> 00:48:51,950
thinking so far out of the box now.

1259
00:48:52,070 --> 00:48:52,610
Yeah, True Fans.

1260
00:48:53,070 --> 00:48:55,890
And by the way, think about the activity

1261
00:48:55,890 --> 00:48:58,350
stream that Sam is implementing.

1262
00:48:58,890 --> 00:49:01,890
That's the kind of stuff that stations as

1263
00:49:01,890 --> 00:49:03,730
well as producers want to see.

1264
00:49:04,270 --> 00:49:05,350
That's fantastic.

1265
00:49:05,550 --> 00:49:06,690
They love that stuff.

1266
00:49:07,730 --> 00:49:07,950
Yeah.

1267
00:49:08,510 --> 00:49:09,610
Yeah, for sure.

1268
00:49:09,610 --> 00:49:13,790
Yeah, I think this becomes like...

1269
00:49:13,790 --> 00:49:17,890
Yeah, that inbox-style app.

1270
00:49:19,290 --> 00:49:20,410
Man, I don't know.

1271
00:49:20,830 --> 00:49:22,730
It may be...

1272
00:49:22,730 --> 00:49:25,090
It's time to rethink that, I think.

1273
00:49:25,850 --> 00:49:26,210
Yes.

1274
00:49:27,150 --> 00:49:29,150
That's been abundantly clear to me.

1275
00:49:30,170 --> 00:49:32,050
It is time to...

1276
00:49:32,050 --> 00:49:33,370
And, you know, you can call it white

1277
00:49:33,370 --> 00:49:36,190
labeling, but, you know, I've said before, pick

1278
00:49:36,190 --> 00:49:38,470
a group, pick a demographic.

1279
00:49:38,470 --> 00:49:40,010
Why is Fountain successful?

1280
00:49:40,450 --> 00:49:42,490
Their demographic is Nostra and Bitcoin.

1281
00:49:43,650 --> 00:49:46,270
Well, do you want to talk about images

1282
00:49:46,270 --> 00:49:46,690
real quick?

1283
00:49:46,970 --> 00:49:48,670
Oh, you know, I'm so excited, David.

1284
00:49:48,850 --> 00:49:50,310
I'm so excited about images.

1285
00:49:50,510 --> 00:49:53,130
I've tried to follow the threads on podcastindex

1286
00:49:53,130 --> 00:49:56,190
.social, and the conversation was so exciting to

1287
00:49:56,190 --> 00:49:56,730
me.

1288
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:58,430
I know.

1289
00:49:59,170 --> 00:50:00,890
You're dripping with sarcasm.

1290
00:50:01,210 --> 00:50:02,090
Yes, I am.

1291
00:50:03,190 --> 00:50:06,550
Because there's so much, you know, like noodling

1292
00:50:06,550 --> 00:50:10,050
and rib-jabbing, and like...

1293
00:50:10,050 --> 00:50:11,530
It was a little bit of...

1294
00:50:12,350 --> 00:50:14,630
So, yeah, set us straight, PodSage.

1295
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:17,790
This...

1296
00:50:18,470 --> 00:50:19,070
Okay.

1297
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:22,130
I mean, I think it's a good transition,

1298
00:50:22,330 --> 00:50:24,630
because if...

1299
00:50:25,810 --> 00:50:26,710
It makes...

1300
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:28,870
Listening to this makes this tag feel even

1301
00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:29,850
more necessary.

1302
00:50:29,850 --> 00:50:31,850
Because now you want...

1303
00:50:32,730 --> 00:50:37,310
If app experiences are going to be broader

1304
00:50:37,310 --> 00:50:39,990
than just an inbox style with a piece

1305
00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:45,910
of episode art, then, like, you're going to

1306
00:50:45,910 --> 00:50:48,490
have to be able to deliver other artwork

1307
00:50:48,490 --> 00:50:49,570
assets, right?

1308
00:50:49,830 --> 00:50:51,230
To make a bigger...

1309
00:50:51,230 --> 00:50:55,750
And now it's time for some hot namespace

1310
00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:56,290
talk.

1311
00:50:56,570 --> 00:50:57,330
Yeah, baby.

1312
00:50:57,330 --> 00:51:00,990
We need something else besides just an image.

1313
00:51:01,430 --> 00:51:03,430
And I want to say, I said right

1314
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:04,470
at the end of that sentence.

1315
00:51:04,670 --> 00:51:05,630
That's pretty bad, yeah.

1316
00:51:05,970 --> 00:51:08,090
To my knowledge, I don't think I've ever

1317
00:51:08,090 --> 00:51:10,350
done that before, and I think it was

1318
00:51:10,350 --> 00:51:13,010
appropriate in the context, but it's still concerning.

1319
00:51:13,210 --> 00:51:14,090
It's very concerning.

1320
00:51:14,810 --> 00:51:17,230
If I do that again, you better call

1321
00:51:17,230 --> 00:51:17,590
me down.

1322
00:51:17,970 --> 00:51:18,870
I'll call you out.

1323
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:21,790
I want an immediate hammer blow.

1324
00:51:22,530 --> 00:51:26,770
Let me just run where we're at real

1325
00:51:26,770 --> 00:51:27,210
quick.

1326
00:51:28,210 --> 00:51:29,910
How did we get here?

1327
00:51:33,850 --> 00:51:39,510
So Russell from Pod2 down under has this

1328
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:40,950
podcast banner tag.

1329
00:51:42,090 --> 00:51:43,830
Podcast colon banner.

1330
00:51:45,090 --> 00:51:47,250
And it does exactly what it says.

1331
00:51:47,330 --> 00:51:49,110
It defines a banner image.

1332
00:51:49,110 --> 00:51:52,130
Banner being something that's longer than it is

1333
00:51:52,130 --> 00:51:53,990
tall, wider than it is high.

1334
00:51:54,110 --> 00:51:54,370
Right.

1335
00:51:55,530 --> 00:51:57,230
That an app can display.

1336
00:51:58,350 --> 00:51:59,770
That's the idea here.

1337
00:51:59,970 --> 00:52:01,850
And so when you think of banner image,

1338
00:52:01,930 --> 00:52:03,710
think of something that's, like, at the top

1339
00:52:03,710 --> 00:52:06,970
of Facebook, your Facebook timeline, or at the

1340
00:52:06,970 --> 00:52:08,770
top of your Mastodon, or at the top

1341
00:52:08,770 --> 00:52:09,390
of your Twitter.

1342
00:52:11,770 --> 00:52:15,250
Some wide but shallow image.

1343
00:52:15,250 --> 00:52:21,450
And so Russell created this thing, and he's

1344
00:52:21,450 --> 00:52:24,610
using it, and that's the thing that exists.

1345
00:52:25,770 --> 00:52:28,890
In the RSS world, so let's just dive

1346
00:52:28,890 --> 00:52:29,090
in.

1347
00:52:29,230 --> 00:52:30,570
What I'm doing right now is just diving

1348
00:52:30,570 --> 00:52:32,730
into podcast image delivery, okay?

1349
00:52:33,170 --> 00:52:36,730
In the RSS 2.0 native world, there's

1350
00:52:36,730 --> 00:52:41,770
an image tag, which has always been sort

1351
00:52:41,770 --> 00:52:43,210
of a weird thing to me.

1352
00:52:44,350 --> 00:52:45,950
It's just a weird tag.

1353
00:52:46,070 --> 00:52:49,850
I don't understand what Weiner was smoking when

1354
00:52:49,850 --> 00:52:54,230
he created this, because it's got, like, it's

1355
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:57,030
got child nodes that are, like, link and

1356
00:52:57,030 --> 00:52:57,510
title.

1357
00:52:58,870 --> 00:53:00,850
And the spec even says that they should

1358
00:53:00,850 --> 00:53:02,730
be, that the title and the link should

1359
00:53:02,730 --> 00:53:04,070
be the same as they are in the

1360
00:53:04,070 --> 00:53:04,430
channel.

1361
00:53:04,670 --> 00:53:05,190
Yeah.

1362
00:53:05,330 --> 00:53:06,530
And then it has max.

1363
00:53:06,530 --> 00:53:11,790
The spec defines a maximum width up to,

1364
00:53:11,890 --> 00:53:14,050
like, 144 pixels or something.

1365
00:53:14,310 --> 00:53:16,190
The whole thing is just super weird.

1366
00:53:16,990 --> 00:53:20,890
And I'm sure that's why Apple created their

1367
00:53:20,890 --> 00:53:22,270
own image tag.

1368
00:53:22,730 --> 00:53:25,230
It was because that one was just almost

1369
00:53:25,230 --> 00:53:25,930
unusable.

1370
00:53:27,490 --> 00:53:30,190
And so the iTunes namespace has an image

1371
00:53:30,190 --> 00:53:36,870
tag, and it's only used for channel art

1372
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:38,750
or episode art, and that's going to be

1373
00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:41,570
square art, sort of a one-by-one

1374
00:53:41,570 --> 00:53:42,710
aspect ratio.

1375
00:53:43,650 --> 00:53:46,710
All the tag has is an href, so

1376
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:49,270
all it does is reference a URL of

1377
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:50,550
an image somewhere on the Internet.

1378
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:57,510
Then in the documentation for the tag, they

1379
00:53:57,510 --> 00:54:00,490
give you their sizing requirements.

1380
00:54:01,110 --> 00:54:03,430
So minimum of 1,400 by 1,400,

1381
00:54:03,630 --> 00:54:05,050
maximum of 3,000 by 3,000.

1382
00:54:05,390 --> 00:54:07,410
So stick a pin in that.

1383
00:54:07,530 --> 00:54:09,110
We're going to come back around to this

1384
00:54:09,110 --> 00:54:09,550
in a minute.

1385
00:54:12,870 --> 00:54:17,370
Then you have the media namespace, what's called

1386
00:54:17,370 --> 00:54:22,150
the media thumbnail tag, which defines a thumbnail

1387
00:54:22,150 --> 00:54:22,670
image.

1388
00:54:23,170 --> 00:54:25,290
I mean, it's in the name, and it

1389
00:54:25,290 --> 00:54:28,130
also, the spec describes it as such, and

1390
00:54:28,130 --> 00:54:29,970
it says it has, like for instance, it

1391
00:54:29,970 --> 00:54:33,950
has a time attribute in it where you

1392
00:54:33,950 --> 00:54:37,850
can give a timestamp to reference a time

1393
00:54:37,850 --> 00:54:45,970
code in the media enclosure, referencing which keyframe

1394
00:54:45,970 --> 00:54:47,610
the thumbnail was taken from.

1395
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:48,030
Right.

1396
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:50,090
So this is a way to say, okay,

1397
00:54:50,170 --> 00:54:53,910
here's an enclosure, and this image represents a

1398
00:54:53,910 --> 00:54:55,370
thumbnail from that enclosure.

1399
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:56,690
This is what you're going to see when

1400
00:54:56,690 --> 00:54:57,390
you hit play.

1401
00:54:59,370 --> 00:55:04,190
So that's kind of the overview there.

1402
00:55:04,750 --> 00:55:09,770
So the art defined, like if you think

1403
00:55:09,770 --> 00:55:14,970
of art in the RSS-based podcasting, really

1404
00:55:14,970 --> 00:55:19,750
you're talking about other than a thumbnail, you're

1405
00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:22,390
talking about square channel or episode art.

1406
00:55:22,890 --> 00:55:24,730
I mean, that's what we're dealing with.

1407
00:55:27,570 --> 00:55:30,490
And the RSS, you know, either using the

1408
00:55:30,490 --> 00:55:32,810
RSS tag itself or the iTunes image tag,

1409
00:55:33,330 --> 00:55:35,770
and then there's the banner tag defined by

1410
00:55:35,770 --> 00:55:36,090
Russell.

1411
00:55:38,930 --> 00:55:43,810
So into this sort of mindset came the

1412
00:55:43,810 --> 00:55:47,850
podcast images tag a few years ago.

1413
00:55:49,050 --> 00:55:53,570
The podcast namespace, the podcast colon images tag

1414
00:55:53,570 --> 00:55:59,890
assumed this paradigm that you would have square

1415
00:55:59,890 --> 00:56:04,030
channel art because that's all we had.

1416
00:56:04,930 --> 00:56:06,970
And it just tweaked it.

1417
00:56:07,410 --> 00:56:11,750
It tweaked it to allow the delivery of

1418
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:16,250
multiple sizes and widths of art instead of

1419
00:56:16,250 --> 00:56:16,810
just one.

1420
00:56:18,130 --> 00:56:21,690
So you could now define a set of

1421
00:56:21,690 --> 00:56:28,070
images and say, okay, this one's 512 pixels

1422
00:56:28,070 --> 00:56:28,470
wide.

1423
00:56:28,570 --> 00:56:30,790
This one's 1024.

1424
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:31,810
This one's 1400.

1425
00:56:32,010 --> 00:56:32,710
This one's 3000.

1426
00:56:34,130 --> 00:56:36,750
And so the idea there is the app

1427
00:56:36,750 --> 00:56:42,650
could choose which image is most appropriate for

1428
00:56:42,650 --> 00:56:44,590
its presentation.

1429
00:56:45,630 --> 00:56:47,870
So like you could have a small KaiOS

1430
00:56:47,870 --> 00:56:51,070
phone screen or like a big monster iPhone

1431
00:56:51,070 --> 00:56:53,150
Pro Max screen.

1432
00:56:53,930 --> 00:56:55,910
And you're just going to pick whatever, the

1433
00:56:55,910 --> 00:56:57,170
app's going to pick whatever is the most

1434
00:56:57,170 --> 00:56:57,530
appropriate.

1435
00:56:58,210 --> 00:56:59,330
That was the idea.

1436
00:56:59,590 --> 00:57:01,650
And so then James stepped into this conversation

1437
00:57:01,650 --> 00:57:05,050
a while back and said that the images

1438
00:57:05,050 --> 00:57:08,990
tag was, to quote him, not fit for

1439
00:57:08,990 --> 00:57:10,050
purpose, unquote.

1440
00:57:11,250 --> 00:57:12,490
Whatever that means.

1441
00:57:12,990 --> 00:57:15,890
I don't really want to get into all

1442
00:57:15,890 --> 00:57:18,570
that because he was very upset with me

1443
00:57:18,570 --> 00:57:22,470
this week for reasons I don't fully understand.

1444
00:57:23,390 --> 00:57:27,410
But I'll just say that we have a

1445
00:57:27,410 --> 00:57:28,650
disagreement about that.

1446
00:57:29,410 --> 00:57:33,150
But saying that I don't agree with him

1447
00:57:33,150 --> 00:57:35,450
is not the same as saying that I

1448
00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:37,770
don't think that I don't see a need

1449
00:57:37,770 --> 00:57:38,550
to change it.

1450
00:57:41,210 --> 00:57:44,550
Because James' point was that the image tag,

1451
00:57:45,330 --> 00:57:48,230
James' point that the image tag is not

1452
00:57:48,230 --> 00:57:53,070
good enough is still valid even if we

1453
00:57:53,070 --> 00:57:56,030
don't come about it through the same steps.

1454
00:57:57,490 --> 00:58:00,610
So I'm willing to accept that.

1455
00:58:01,130 --> 00:58:03,230
So we're left with this need for a

1456
00:58:03,230 --> 00:58:09,390
tag that can deliver images for different purposes.

1457
00:58:09,530 --> 00:58:10,950
That's really where we're at now.

1458
00:58:11,790 --> 00:58:15,430
So, for instance, like a hero banner.

1459
00:58:15,890 --> 00:58:18,010
So what you might call, what Apple might

1460
00:58:18,010 --> 00:58:21,470
call, what Apple does call a channel logo.

1461
00:58:22,330 --> 00:58:24,290
And that's Apple's terminology.

1462
00:58:24,290 --> 00:58:26,590
So it's something that looks sort of like

1463
00:58:26,590 --> 00:58:28,130
a banner, kind of.

1464
00:58:29,090 --> 00:58:32,770
Or perhaps like dark mode, light mode channel

1465
00:58:32,770 --> 00:58:33,730
art, okay?

1466
00:58:33,970 --> 00:58:34,610
Yep, yep.

1467
00:58:35,390 --> 00:58:39,530
Or an open graph wide card that's going

1468
00:58:39,530 --> 00:58:41,650
to get displayed as a preview image when

1469
00:58:41,650 --> 00:58:43,030
you post to Twitter.

1470
00:58:44,430 --> 00:58:45,990
These are all different possible...

1471
00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:48,570
All different versions, yeah, of course, of course.

1472
00:58:48,890 --> 00:58:50,930
Different types of art that you may want

1473
00:58:50,930 --> 00:58:52,390
to deliver in your feed.

1474
00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:54,070
Because at this point...

1475
00:58:54,070 --> 00:58:56,170
So you're going to control your branding at

1476
00:58:56,170 --> 00:58:56,630
this point.

1477
00:58:57,190 --> 00:59:00,890
You're going to say, here's, you know, like

1478
00:59:00,890 --> 00:59:02,850
to whatever degree you want to, you're going

1479
00:59:02,850 --> 00:59:06,290
to say, okay, I've got 17 different assets

1480
00:59:06,290 --> 00:59:09,610
here, image assets, and I want to deliver

1481
00:59:09,610 --> 00:59:13,150
these along with my feed so that an

1482
00:59:13,150 --> 00:59:17,330
app can receive it and know exactly all

1483
00:59:17,330 --> 00:59:20,030
the different possible ways to show my branding

1484
00:59:20,030 --> 00:59:20,750
to the user.

1485
00:59:20,750 --> 00:59:23,890
That's kind of the best I can explain

1486
00:59:23,890 --> 00:59:24,470
it.

1487
00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:25,170
Makes sense.

1488
00:59:25,810 --> 00:59:32,370
So Nathan proposed modifying the podcast colon images

1489
00:59:32,370 --> 00:59:32,850
tag.

1490
00:59:33,090 --> 00:59:35,650
And you as project leader completely ignored him,

1491
00:59:35,730 --> 00:59:36,710
you horrible person.

1492
00:59:38,970 --> 00:59:40,470
That's what I do.

1493
00:59:41,910 --> 00:59:44,210
I'm the ignorer in chief, yes.

1494
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:48,290
So Nathan proposed modifying the images tag.

1495
00:59:48,290 --> 00:59:53,490
Let me just, on that topic, just because

1496
00:59:53,490 --> 00:59:58,010
something doesn't immediately get acted upon doesn't mean

1497
00:59:58,010 --> 01:00:00,250
that it's not the same as ignoring it.

1498
01:00:00,750 --> 01:00:03,190
Like, it just came back up.

1499
01:00:03,570 --> 01:00:03,690
Yeah.

1500
01:00:04,230 --> 01:00:05,150
It just came back up.

1501
01:00:05,770 --> 01:00:08,770
No human being can address everything at all

1502
01:00:08,770 --> 01:00:09,270
times.

1503
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:10,370
I mean, it's just not possible.

1504
01:00:10,470 --> 01:00:12,470
There's not enough bandwidth to the human mind

1505
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:15,790
to solve problems on 25 different fronts at

1506
01:00:15,790 --> 01:00:16,090
once.

1507
01:00:16,090 --> 01:00:19,550
Things have to be ignored or set aside

1508
01:00:19,550 --> 01:00:20,630
or come back to later.

1509
01:00:21,070 --> 01:00:23,750
I hate that sometimes people feel that way.

1510
01:00:24,670 --> 01:00:26,290
But it's just life.

1511
01:00:27,650 --> 01:00:31,830
So Nathan proposed modifying the podcast colon images

1512
01:00:31,830 --> 01:00:34,650
tag to serve this purpose.

1513
01:00:35,530 --> 01:00:35,630
Okay.

1514
01:00:38,330 --> 01:00:41,130
And let's look at it real quick.

1515
01:00:41,990 --> 01:00:50,050
So the proposal here is to

1516
01:00:50,050 --> 01:00:56,990
add, what he's saying is add to the

1517
01:00:56,990 --> 01:01:01,670
current source set attribute, which is the attribute

1518
01:01:01,670 --> 01:01:03,630
that existed before.

1519
01:01:04,510 --> 01:01:06,530
Add a bunch of other options, a bunch

1520
01:01:06,530 --> 01:01:07,490
of other attributes.

1521
01:01:09,390 --> 01:01:11,410
Source would be required.

1522
01:01:12,250 --> 01:01:13,890
Source set would become optional.

1523
01:01:15,470 --> 01:01:17,610
And the attributes would be as follows.

1524
01:01:17,850 --> 01:01:20,550
Alt, which is what we're all familiar with,

1525
01:01:20,550 --> 01:01:21,990
with the HTML image tag.

1526
01:01:22,050 --> 01:01:24,270
It would just define some fallback text if

1527
01:01:24,270 --> 01:01:27,870
the image can't be seen or shown.

1528
01:01:28,570 --> 01:01:30,930
There would be an aspect ratio attribute.

1529
01:01:32,190 --> 01:01:35,210
There would be a purpose attribute, and that

1530
01:01:35,210 --> 01:01:37,230
would be just a text-based purpose.

1531
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:42,030
There would be a source attribute, straight up

1532
01:01:42,030 --> 01:01:44,370
just linked to an image.

1533
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:48,230
And there would be a type, so something

1534
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:51,150
like image slash JPEG or video slash MP4

1535
01:01:51,150 --> 01:01:51,930
or something like that.

1536
01:01:53,130 --> 01:01:55,430
So the thing that's interesting here and makes

1537
01:01:55,430 --> 01:01:57,430
this different from what you would expect from

1538
01:01:57,430 --> 01:02:01,530
just a normal image tag is this purpose

1539
01:02:01,530 --> 01:02:02,070
idea.

1540
01:02:02,070 --> 01:02:06,230
I asked for this, and then he took

1541
01:02:06,230 --> 01:02:08,150
it in sort of an interesting direction.

1542
01:02:10,110 --> 01:02:13,110
And this is where some of the problem,

1543
01:02:13,850 --> 01:02:16,150
not a problem, but some of the confusion

1544
01:02:16,150 --> 01:02:22,510
and concern has come from, as expressed by

1545
01:02:22,510 --> 01:02:23,050
Stephen B.

1546
01:02:23,230 --> 01:02:24,230
Yes, I saw that.

1547
01:02:25,930 --> 01:02:26,530
True.

1548
01:02:27,150 --> 01:02:28,390
And I want to say this.

1549
01:02:28,390 --> 01:02:33,410
Stephen and Nathan are so pleasant to talk

1550
01:02:33,410 --> 01:02:37,490
through this stuff with because it's just like

1551
01:02:37,490 --> 01:02:43,790
it's sticking to the point and getting everybody's

1552
01:02:43,790 --> 01:02:46,510
cards out on the table, and there's very

1553
01:02:46,510 --> 01:02:48,350
little ego that gets involved in this wonderful.

1554
01:02:50,910 --> 01:02:55,270
So the purpose here, and Nathan gives a

1555
01:02:55,270 --> 01:03:02,430
few examples, could be something like, we mentioned

1556
01:03:02,430 --> 01:03:05,550
Apple's channel logo, so it could be something

1557
01:03:05,550 --> 01:03:07,870
like Apple dash channel dash logo.

1558
01:03:09,230 --> 01:03:11,470
Now, I'm just spitballing making these up.

1559
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:13,490
I'm not trying to be super specific.

1560
01:03:14,750 --> 01:03:16,210
And the idea here is that you would

1561
01:03:16,210 --> 01:03:22,330
pass through this purpose from one platform through

1562
01:03:22,330 --> 01:03:23,150
to the app.

1563
01:03:25,070 --> 01:03:27,250
This sort of pass-through approach where you're

1564
01:03:27,250 --> 01:03:31,090
saying instead of defining all of the allowable

1565
01:03:31,090 --> 01:03:36,050
image metrics and use cases inside our own

1566
01:03:36,050 --> 01:03:39,210
tag and spec, why don't we take the

1567
01:03:39,210 --> 01:03:43,490
MIME type approach, why don't we take it

1568
01:03:43,490 --> 01:03:48,390
one step further and use the purpose attribute

1569
01:03:48,390 --> 01:03:51,550
to pass the platform's intent through to the

1570
01:03:51,550 --> 01:03:51,890
app.

1571
01:03:53,130 --> 01:03:55,850
So podcasting has sort of three spheres.

1572
01:03:55,850 --> 01:03:58,310
If you think about it, it's got hosting

1573
01:03:58,310 --> 01:04:02,110
providers, Buzzsprout, RSS.com, Blueberry, blah, blah, blah,

1574
01:04:03,110 --> 01:04:07,530
podcast player apps, TrueFans, Podverse, Fountain, et cetera,

1575
01:04:08,790 --> 01:04:10,010
and third-party platforms.

1576
01:04:10,830 --> 01:04:18,130
Episodes.fm, Podnews, Podcast.tech, Podpage, Podcaster, on

1577
01:04:18,130 --> 01:04:18,430
and on.

1578
01:04:19,330 --> 01:04:21,750
So you have sort of three different spheres

1579
01:04:21,750 --> 01:04:24,970
here of interest in what is happening in

1580
01:04:24,970 --> 01:04:27,750
different deliveries going back and forth.

1581
01:04:28,910 --> 01:04:33,030
So instead of saying in our spec, a

1582
01:04:33,030 --> 01:04:35,990
banner is a three-to-one aspect ratio

1583
01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:40,450
with a minimum of 2850 wide, instead you

1584
01:04:40,450 --> 01:04:44,170
could say purpose equals Apple channel logo.

1585
01:04:45,430 --> 01:04:48,930
Then if the app knows that an Apple

1586
01:04:48,930 --> 01:04:51,910
channel logo, knows what an Apple channel logo's

1587
01:04:51,910 --> 01:04:55,490
image constraints are and wants to deliver an

1588
01:04:55,490 --> 01:04:57,950
asset somewhere in its UI that looks like

1589
01:04:57,950 --> 01:05:02,410
that, then it can choose to consume that

1590
01:05:02,410 --> 01:05:03,090
image.

1591
01:05:03,930 --> 01:05:04,490
Or ignore.

1592
01:05:05,370 --> 01:05:07,830
Right, and if it doesn't know about it,

1593
01:05:08,170 --> 01:05:10,910
or if it doesn't want to display something

1594
01:05:10,910 --> 01:05:12,590
like that, it can ignore it.

1595
01:05:13,290 --> 01:05:16,090
So that's sort of where he took that

1596
01:05:16,090 --> 01:05:18,030
purpose idea.

1597
01:05:20,030 --> 01:05:21,950
It's very different.

1598
01:05:27,630 --> 01:05:31,930
It's kind of unique in one way, but

1599
01:05:31,930 --> 01:05:34,650
it's not like we're totally unused to this.

1600
01:05:35,110 --> 01:05:37,090
No, we have that with Medium, we have

1601
01:05:37,090 --> 01:05:38,790
it with all kinds of stuff, don't we?

1602
01:05:39,550 --> 01:05:46,370
Well, see, this feels more like MIME types

1603
01:05:46,370 --> 01:05:47,170
to me.

1604
01:05:48,650 --> 01:05:51,130
Because what you're saying is, with a MIME

1605
01:05:51,130 --> 01:05:52,930
type, you're saying, okay, the MIME type is

1606
01:05:52,930 --> 01:05:55,150
MPEG slash audio.

1607
01:05:55,950 --> 01:06:00,710
Well, we know what that means, but we

1608
01:06:00,710 --> 01:06:03,470
don't know what that means because the HTML

1609
01:06:03,470 --> 01:06:04,730
spec defines it.

1610
01:06:05,050 --> 01:06:07,150
We know what that means because the MIME

1611
01:06:07,150 --> 01:06:10,890
type leads us to the MP3 spec that

1612
01:06:10,890 --> 01:06:12,090
defines what that means.

1613
01:06:12,970 --> 01:06:15,450
And so it's sort of like a standard

1614
01:06:15,450 --> 01:06:17,030
that points to a different standard.

1615
01:06:18,670 --> 01:06:21,930
But instead of what's happening here, it's a

1616
01:06:21,930 --> 01:06:24,170
little bit of a different use of that.

1617
01:06:24,910 --> 01:06:27,390
And it's not necessarily a standard pointing to

1618
01:06:27,390 --> 01:06:29,750
a different standard, it's a standard pointing to

1619
01:06:29,750 --> 01:06:36,530
a provider's documentation of what they want.

1620
01:06:37,870 --> 01:06:41,890
And that's a little bit different than what

1621
01:06:41,890 --> 01:06:43,030
we're used to, I think.

1622
01:06:44,090 --> 01:06:45,630
And I think that's...

1623
01:06:47,270 --> 01:06:49,550
The funny thing is that from my perspective,

1624
01:06:49,990 --> 01:06:51,850
it all made perfect sense to me.

1625
01:06:52,050 --> 01:06:54,190
I don't understand why it was an issue

1626
01:06:54,950 --> 01:06:56,670
because I'm like, yeah, that makes sense.

1627
01:06:56,730 --> 01:06:57,870
I want to use it for this, I

1628
01:06:57,870 --> 01:06:58,630
want to use it for that.

1629
01:06:58,670 --> 01:07:00,310
I don't want to, I don't use it.

1630
01:07:02,590 --> 01:07:03,690
I think I understand.

1631
01:07:03,690 --> 01:07:13,320
We had this discussion on the podcast index

1632
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:13,840
social.

1633
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:17,260
And I think it's really important.

1634
01:07:17,340 --> 01:07:19,400
I want people to listen to me right

1635
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:20,000
here.

1636
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,540
I am simply talking out loud right now

1637
01:07:25,540 --> 01:07:27,560
and thinking these things through because these are

1638
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:28,240
new ideas.

1639
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:35,440
I'm not at the point of saying that

1640
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,120
I think we should do any particular one

1641
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:38,320
thing.

1642
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,120
I really am just thinking all of this

1643
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:41,380
out loud.

1644
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,300
That's what the boardroom is for, is to

1645
01:07:43,300 --> 01:07:45,660
just bat this stuff around.

1646
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,200
So don't get too hung up on any

1647
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:49,760
one particular thing.

1648
01:07:51,460 --> 01:07:53,360
But I think it's important to think about

1649
01:07:55,500 --> 01:07:57,360
directives versus descriptives.

1650
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:03,440
If you think about the HTML spec, the

1651
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:07,300
image tag in the HTML specification, that's a

1652
01:08:07,300 --> 01:08:07,760
directive.

1653
01:08:09,460 --> 01:08:12,600
That image tag is not telling, when you

1654
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,420
include a width and a height in the

1655
01:08:14,420 --> 01:08:17,100
image tag of HTML, it is not telling

1656
01:08:17,100 --> 01:08:20,779
you that that image is that wide and

1657
01:08:20,779 --> 01:08:21,359
that high.

1658
01:08:21,979 --> 01:08:25,200
It's telling you when you show it on

1659
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:27,840
the screen, show it in this width and

1660
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:28,399
this height.

1661
01:08:29,180 --> 01:08:32,939
The image that it's referencing could be something

1662
01:08:32,939 --> 01:08:33,960
completely different.

1663
01:08:34,660 --> 01:08:36,340
And you can see that when you put

1664
01:08:36,340 --> 01:08:39,640
a 16x9 image and then you put it

1665
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,160
in an image tag in HTML that's one

1666
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:42,600
by one.

1667
01:08:42,700 --> 01:08:44,020
It just gets all squished up and looks

1668
01:08:44,020 --> 01:08:44,319
terrible.

1669
01:08:45,399 --> 01:08:46,979
So that's a directive.

1670
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:50,140
What we're talking about and what we're assuming

1671
01:08:50,140 --> 01:08:51,859
that RSS feeds are going to want to

1672
01:08:51,859 --> 01:08:54,660
deliver are things that are descriptive.

1673
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:06,080
When the podcast colon images tag tells you

1674
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,319
the width and the height, we assume that

1675
01:09:09,319 --> 01:09:12,620
it's telling us what the image is.

1676
01:09:14,279 --> 01:09:17,620
And that's a little bit different because it

1677
01:09:17,620 --> 01:09:20,000
sort of changes your mindset as the app

1678
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:21,420
developer.

1679
01:09:21,979 --> 01:09:24,000
You're saying, okay, I know I'm going to

1680
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,840
be getting an image that's this shape and

1681
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:27,439
this size.

1682
01:09:28,140 --> 01:09:30,460
Then what can I do with it?

1683
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,760
And so that's when I say that now

1684
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:34,720
there's these purposes.

1685
01:09:35,859 --> 01:09:43,189
The purposes are there because you're being described

1686
01:09:43,189 --> 01:09:49,510
to what this thing is supposed to be.

1687
01:09:51,410 --> 01:09:52,270
And that's helpful.

1688
01:09:52,529 --> 01:09:56,130
Think about if you're an app developer and

1689
01:09:56,130 --> 01:09:59,910
you just get an image in the feed

1690
01:09:59,910 --> 01:10:01,430
and here's what you get.

1691
01:10:01,530 --> 01:10:09,150
You get URL, width, height, aspect ratio.

1692
01:10:10,530 --> 01:10:11,730
What is that?

1693
01:10:12,690 --> 01:10:13,330
Right.

1694
01:10:14,810 --> 01:10:16,490
What do you do with it?

1695
01:10:16,990 --> 01:10:17,930
I don't know.

1696
01:10:17,950 --> 01:10:19,670
You have no idea.

1697
01:10:20,010 --> 01:10:20,250
No.

1698
01:10:20,530 --> 01:10:22,730
It doesn't tell you anything.

1699
01:10:22,730 --> 01:10:24,730
And if we go into the spec and

1700
01:10:24,730 --> 01:10:31,610
say, okay, anytime you receive an image that's

1701
01:10:31,610 --> 01:10:35,710
three to one aspect ratio, that's going to

1702
01:10:35,710 --> 01:10:37,090
be this thing.

1703
01:10:40,190 --> 01:10:42,150
Well, every now and then it may not

1704
01:10:42,150 --> 01:10:47,250
be because that doesn't stop people from putting

1705
01:10:47,250 --> 01:10:48,610
whatever they want to in there.

1706
01:10:49,370 --> 01:10:52,050
But if you have an image that has

1707
01:10:52,050 --> 01:10:57,230
a purpose of X, Y, Z, now at

1708
01:10:57,230 --> 01:11:01,310
least you can see it and say, oh,

1709
01:11:01,790 --> 01:11:06,050
okay, well, this is telling me that it's

1710
01:11:06,050 --> 01:11:08,170
supposed to be a hero image.

1711
01:11:10,990 --> 01:11:13,510
And I know what that is.

1712
01:11:13,650 --> 01:11:14,730
What is a hero image?

1713
01:11:14,790 --> 01:11:16,410
Because I've never heard that term before this

1714
01:11:16,410 --> 01:11:17,110
conversation.

1715
01:11:18,090 --> 01:11:20,650
It's like a big thing at the top

1716
01:11:20,650 --> 01:11:22,330
of a website that's sort of like a

1717
01:11:22,330 --> 01:11:23,210
background graphic.

1718
01:11:23,410 --> 01:11:25,250
That actually has the name hero image?

1719
01:11:25,250 --> 01:11:26,370
I've never heard that before.

1720
01:11:27,150 --> 01:11:27,430
Yeah.

1721
01:11:27,610 --> 01:11:28,950
Let's see.

1722
01:11:29,450 --> 01:11:31,370
A term used to describe the full screen

1723
01:11:31,370 --> 01:11:31,710
video.

1724
01:11:32,210 --> 01:11:32,750
Oh, web design.

1725
01:11:33,190 --> 01:11:34,450
Above the fold page.

1726
01:11:34,550 --> 01:11:35,770
I've never heard about that.

1727
01:11:35,910 --> 01:11:36,070
Okay.

1728
01:11:36,770 --> 01:11:36,950
Yeah.

1729
01:11:38,110 --> 01:11:39,670
And so you can see, we want to

1730
01:11:39,670 --> 01:11:42,250
make these rich image-filled experiences.

1731
01:11:44,030 --> 01:11:46,570
So you need more to go on.

1732
01:11:46,770 --> 01:11:48,950
What if somebody gives you, what if somebody

1733
01:11:48,950 --> 01:11:55,370
gives you a 3,000 pixel wide, 1

1734
01:11:55,370 --> 01:11:59,950
,000 pixel tall picture of themself?

1735
01:12:01,390 --> 01:12:04,290
And what they intended it for was like

1736
01:12:04,290 --> 01:12:05,630
an avatar.

1737
01:12:05,970 --> 01:12:06,550
Right.

1738
01:12:06,970 --> 01:12:08,870
But you don't know what to do with

1739
01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:08,990
it.

1740
01:12:09,090 --> 01:12:09,250
Yeah.

1741
01:12:09,770 --> 01:12:14,710
So I think, so Stephen is concerned about

1742
01:12:14,710 --> 01:12:16,050
interrupting complexity.

1743
01:12:16,810 --> 01:12:18,630
And I respect that.

1744
01:12:18,750 --> 01:12:21,730
And I want to think about that.

1745
01:12:21,850 --> 01:12:22,890
And I want us all to think about

1746
01:12:22,890 --> 01:12:23,230
that.

1747
01:12:24,050 --> 01:12:27,470
I mean, a tag doesn't have to define

1748
01:12:27,470 --> 01:12:30,710
everything about itself as long as it references

1749
01:12:31,450 --> 01:12:34,710
sort of appropriate definitions that can be found

1750
01:12:34,710 --> 01:12:36,430
in other places.

1751
01:12:39,010 --> 01:12:41,070
So like the enclosure tag.

1752
01:12:41,290 --> 01:12:42,990
The enclosure tag has a mime type in

1753
01:12:42,990 --> 01:12:43,110
it.

1754
01:12:43,770 --> 01:12:45,970
We know that somewhere off on the internet,

1755
01:12:45,970 --> 01:12:48,390
there's a mime.

1756
01:12:48,730 --> 01:12:50,810
We can go find whatever that mime type

1757
01:12:50,810 --> 01:12:52,290
is if we needed to.

1758
01:12:55,550 --> 01:13:00,110
And, you know, I don't think Stephen's opposed

1759
01:13:00,110 --> 01:13:02,470
to this, to that necessarily.

1760
01:13:03,030 --> 01:13:05,110
If I had to sum up his concern,

1761
01:13:05,290 --> 01:13:09,210
I think it's that he feels the weight

1762
01:13:09,210 --> 01:13:12,510
of like too many of these indirect references

1763
01:13:12,510 --> 01:13:16,910
to other things that if he's like, well,

1764
01:13:16,930 --> 01:13:18,890
I got to go look up this thing

1765
01:13:18,890 --> 01:13:20,010
and this thing and this thing and this

1766
01:13:20,010 --> 01:13:22,130
thing and I got to, that it's just

1767
01:13:22,130 --> 01:13:23,410
sort of like it's going to make your

1768
01:13:23,410 --> 01:13:28,530
brain spin and it's going to become too

1769
01:13:28,530 --> 01:13:31,410
complicated to try to accept all these different

1770
01:13:31,410 --> 01:13:32,090
things.

1771
01:13:36,430 --> 01:13:38,650
And there's also like implementation difficulty.

1772
01:13:39,070 --> 01:13:40,210
I'm sympathetic to that.

1773
01:13:40,210 --> 01:13:44,450
If it's just an overly complex, then it

1774
01:13:44,450 --> 01:13:46,490
can be a real barrier to adoption.

1775
01:13:46,690 --> 01:13:47,930
I mean, a tag like this needs to

1776
01:13:47,930 --> 01:13:52,450
be, okay, so it needs to be fully

1777
01:13:52,450 --> 01:13:55,230
usable with just like a minimum of attributes.

1778
01:13:57,990 --> 01:14:01,150
So I guess here's my current thoughts at

1779
01:14:01,150 --> 01:14:02,630
this moment about it.

1780
01:14:07,710 --> 01:14:09,610
Names of things don't matter, but we might

1781
01:14:09,610 --> 01:14:12,390
need to rename this tag to avoid just

1782
01:14:12,390 --> 01:14:15,350
confusion and to make a clean break with

1783
01:14:15,350 --> 01:14:16,850
the podcast colon images.

1784
01:14:17,010 --> 01:14:18,370
We may need to just say, okay, this

1785
01:14:18,370 --> 01:14:20,390
thing is not called podcast colon images.

1786
01:14:20,670 --> 01:14:24,430
This thing is called podcast colon image and

1787
01:14:24,430 --> 01:14:25,410
just start fresh.

1788
01:14:25,430 --> 01:14:27,350
That way we can drop the source set

1789
01:14:27,350 --> 01:14:35,590
attribute and then go move and we will

1790
01:14:35,590 --> 01:14:38,610
push the podcast images tag to some sort

1791
01:14:38,610 --> 01:14:42,350
of deprecated appendix of the namespace.

1792
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:51,070
You know, that's probably, I think a good

1793
01:14:51,070 --> 01:14:51,770
thing to do.

1794
01:14:52,510 --> 01:14:57,390
And then also choosing to not account for

1795
01:14:57,390 --> 01:15:00,730
optional attributes is kind of the same as

1796
01:15:00,730 --> 01:15:03,250
ignoring certain tags you don't support.

1797
01:15:04,590 --> 01:15:09,110
So if like in Steven's case, like if

1798
01:15:09,110 --> 01:15:15,230
Steven doesn't want to take on like the

1799
01:15:15,230 --> 01:15:21,070
complexity of the purpose attribute, it is optional.

1800
01:15:22,050 --> 01:15:24,690
And he could just choose to ignore that

1801
01:15:24,690 --> 01:15:28,710
and say, okay, I'm only going to process

1802
01:15:28,710 --> 01:15:33,410
images using just aspect ratio, width and height.

1803
01:15:34,750 --> 01:15:37,690
And I'm going to just, that's what I'm

1804
01:15:37,690 --> 01:15:38,490
going to look at.

1805
01:15:39,590 --> 01:15:42,130
And to me, that's really not much different

1806
01:15:42,130 --> 01:15:45,470
than saying, if we're talking about optional attributes,

1807
01:15:45,550 --> 01:15:47,730
that's not much difference than saying, I'm going

1808
01:15:47,730 --> 01:15:49,490
to support the social interact tag, but I'm

1809
01:15:49,490 --> 01:15:51,970
not going to support the chapters tag.

1810
01:15:53,370 --> 01:15:54,910
I mean, you're just sort of, you're just

1811
01:15:54,910 --> 01:15:57,890
ignoring the thing that you don't want to

1812
01:15:57,890 --> 01:16:06,030
consume because it's backwards compatible down to just

1813
01:16:06,030 --> 01:16:09,110
an image, just an image href.

1814
01:16:10,470 --> 01:16:12,810
I mean, really at its barest bones, if

1815
01:16:12,810 --> 01:16:15,430
you think about, let's say we took Nathan's

1816
01:16:15,430 --> 01:16:18,510
tag, rename it to podcast colon image.

1817
01:16:19,870 --> 01:16:22,130
It's usable just with an href.

1818
01:16:22,670 --> 01:16:25,270
So at that point, it's semantically equivalent to

1819
01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:27,070
the iTunes image tag.

1820
01:16:28,230 --> 01:16:30,210
Now you can, now you add the ability

1821
01:16:30,210 --> 01:16:33,870
to have an aspect ratio, a width and

1822
01:16:33,870 --> 01:16:34,310
a height.

1823
01:16:35,790 --> 01:16:40,750
Okay, now you've stepped up the possible power

1824
01:16:40,750 --> 01:16:43,290
of this tag to now be able to

1825
01:16:43,290 --> 01:16:45,690
encompass these other things that are desired.

1826
01:16:46,950 --> 01:16:49,070
Then you add to that, you can go

1827
01:16:49,070 --> 01:16:51,650
one step further and consume purpose.

1828
01:16:52,990 --> 01:16:58,150
Now you've gone into the realm of, I'm

1829
01:16:58,150 --> 01:17:02,210
looking at other people's, I'm looking at other

1830
01:17:02,210 --> 01:17:05,510
specifications in the podcast world like Apple's spec,

1831
01:17:06,710 --> 01:17:10,530
Spotify's spec, YouTube's spec, looking at what their

1832
01:17:10,530 --> 01:17:15,370
art direction says and choosing whether or not

1833
01:17:15,370 --> 01:17:19,510
to consume things that adhere to that.

1834
01:17:21,350 --> 01:17:24,630
Now I think that's sort of three, if

1835
01:17:24,630 --> 01:17:26,110
you look at it that way, that is

1836
01:17:26,110 --> 01:17:29,470
three layers of complexity that you can step

1837
01:17:29,470 --> 01:17:31,330
up or down to as an app developer

1838
01:17:31,330 --> 01:17:33,110
depending on how far you want to go.

1839
01:17:36,260 --> 01:17:45,620
And so I think, because what's your other

1840
01:17:45,620 --> 01:17:46,220
alternative?

1841
01:17:47,460 --> 01:17:52,260
The other alternative is for us to start

1842
01:17:52,260 --> 01:18:01,060
defining these particular pixel ratios and widths.

1843
01:18:01,700 --> 01:18:04,720
When you see these in the wild, it's

1844
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:05,500
this thing.

1845
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:10,740
Now just, see, that's not the way these

1846
01:18:10,740 --> 01:18:12,000
other things are defined.

1847
01:18:12,300 --> 01:18:15,160
Like what Apple says, I'm just going to

1848
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:16,000
use Apple as an example.

1849
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:23,440
Apple doesn't say that a 2850 by 750

1850
01:18:23,440 --> 01:18:25,780
image is a banner.

1851
01:18:27,260 --> 01:18:31,700
They say a banner is 2850 by 750.

1852
01:18:33,260 --> 01:18:36,080
See, I mean, that's a huge distinction.

1853
01:18:38,700 --> 01:18:39,620
Do you get what I'm saying?

1854
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:40,520
I do.

1855
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:44,560
I'm baffled why this is so complicated, why

1856
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:49,440
there's a kind of religion around how this

1857
01:18:49,440 --> 01:18:50,220
should work.

1858
01:18:50,220 --> 01:18:53,980
I can see the analogy to the MIME

1859
01:18:53,980 --> 01:18:54,260
type.

1860
01:18:54,380 --> 01:18:55,560
I can see everything you're seeing.

1861
01:18:56,060 --> 01:18:58,380
I'm not a software developer, so that makes

1862
01:18:58,380 --> 01:18:59,440
it easy for me to say.

1863
01:19:00,440 --> 01:19:02,980
I'm not confused by why this is hard

1864
01:19:02,980 --> 01:19:04,840
because I think it actually is hard.

1865
01:19:06,420 --> 01:19:10,380
I think it actually is difficult because you're

1866
01:19:10,380 --> 01:19:16,260
trying to solve for a problem that has

1867
01:19:16,260 --> 01:19:20,960
two opposing sides to it and you're always

1868
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:24,800
going to fall a little afoul one way

1869
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:25,380
or another.

1870
01:19:26,220 --> 01:19:27,800
You know, you're going to make it a

1871
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:29,260
little, it's going to be a little messy

1872
01:19:29,260 --> 01:19:32,760
and complicated on one side or it's going

1873
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:35,400
to be weak, you know, too weak on

1874
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:36,100
the other side.

1875
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:39,280
And so it's like, I mean, I truly

1876
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:45,920
am sympathetic to the difficulty here because that

1877
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:50,060
description really is the heart of the problem.

1878
01:19:50,940 --> 01:19:52,460
And that's what it comes down to is

1879
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:57,300
you either have to define the spec as

1880
01:19:57,300 --> 01:20:01,880
here's a banner, I'm just using banner as

1881
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:05,300
an example, here's a banner and a banner

1882
01:20:05,300 --> 01:20:11,140
is this metric or here's this metric and

1883
01:20:11,140 --> 01:20:12,140
that means it's a banner.

1884
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:17,600
There's a tension between those two things and

1885
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,480
one is much easier, but one is an

1886
01:20:21,480 --> 01:20:23,440
easier spec, but it's error prone.

1887
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:26,560
The other one is more difficult, but it's

1888
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:30,280
more rigid and you're more, it's almost like

1889
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:37,580
in programming terms having strict typing and compile

1890
01:20:37,580 --> 01:20:43,860
time checking versus, you know, loose non-typing.

1891
01:20:44,780 --> 01:20:47,460
It's easier to program in an untyped language,

1892
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:50,540
but on a typed language, once you compile

1893
01:20:50,540 --> 01:20:52,100
it, you know that thing's going to run.

1894
01:20:53,300 --> 01:20:55,180
If it compiles, it runs.

1895
01:20:56,440 --> 01:20:59,040
And so there's a trade-off there and

1896
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:00,600
I think that's what we're running into.

1897
01:21:02,220 --> 01:21:05,760
I don't know the actual answer to it

1898
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:09,200
yet, but I think we can work it

1899
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:10,480
out and get a good spec out of

1900
01:21:10,480 --> 01:21:16,040
it mostly because I really believe that the

1901
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,200
people who are involved in trying to get

1902
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:23,720
it done, I just think that they're capable

1903
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:24,940
people who are going to get it done.

1904
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:26,940
I'm not so sure, Dave.

1905
01:21:29,180 --> 01:21:31,840
I love your confidence.

1906
01:21:34,140 --> 01:21:36,240
I'm sure we can work this out.

1907
01:21:36,380 --> 01:21:37,260
I'm sure we can.

1908
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:39,480
And I'm going to have to stop you

1909
01:21:39,480 --> 01:21:40,940
there, brother, because I got to get you

1910
01:21:40,940 --> 01:21:42,040
out in time.

1911
01:21:42,980 --> 01:21:46,960
Oh, Lord, it's 1.57. Yes, yes, yes.

1912
01:21:47,340 --> 01:21:49,200
I'm just talking and talking.

1913
01:21:49,420 --> 01:21:50,460
Yeah, well, we both talked.

1914
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:52,080
I don't even have time for a song.

1915
01:21:52,180 --> 01:21:52,780
It's crazy.

1916
01:21:53,300 --> 01:21:54,100
Oh, sorry, man.

1917
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:54,860
No, that's okay.

1918
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:55,820
Listen, everybody.

1919
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:58,760
Wow, this has been an intense board meeting.

1920
01:21:58,880 --> 01:21:59,440
This is good.

1921
01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:01,220
Well, it's intense.

1922
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:03,340
It's intense, yeah, because there's a lot of

1923
01:22:03,340 --> 01:22:04,260
stuff to think about.

1924
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:10,220
We're rattling cages here with inbox discussions and

1925
01:22:10,220 --> 01:22:12,360
this image stuff.

1926
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:15,260
I think it's going to turn out great

1927
01:22:15,260 --> 01:22:17,340
when we have agreement on it.

1928
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:19,660
It always turns out great.

1929
01:22:20,060 --> 01:22:23,140
Ultimately, we're value for value.

1930
01:22:23,580 --> 01:22:25,680
Help keep the servers running on the podcast

1931
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:26,160
index.

1932
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:27,820
You can do that in multiple ways by

1933
01:22:27,820 --> 01:22:29,540
going to podcastindex.org.

1934
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:30,820
Down at the bottom, you'll see a red

1935
01:22:30,820 --> 01:22:31,540
donate button.

1936
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:34,340
You can use that to send your PayPal

1937
01:22:34,340 --> 01:22:34,920
to us.

1938
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:35,980
That's highly appreciated.

1939
01:22:36,300 --> 01:22:38,900
Of course, we encourage using a modern podcast

1940
01:22:38,900 --> 01:22:39,220
app.

1941
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:42,420
Go to podcastapps.com and sending us a

1942
01:22:42,420 --> 01:22:42,620
boost.

1943
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:43,620
We got a couple of boosts.

1944
01:22:43,660 --> 01:22:45,120
There's one coming in right now.

1945
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:46,320
Cole McCormick, 1111.

1946
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:48,300
Love you guys, he says.

1947
01:22:48,620 --> 01:22:49,800
Podcasting is intense.

1948
01:22:50,180 --> 01:22:50,840
Yes, indeed.

1949
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:53,960
420 stats from Cannabis Records.

1950
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:54,980
I see what you did there.

1951
01:22:55,480 --> 01:22:57,120
Preview art is very important for us.

1952
01:22:57,220 --> 01:22:59,100
On a marketing perspective, would love to see

1953
01:22:59,100 --> 01:23:00,500
that on the images tag.

1954
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:01,440
There you go.

1955
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:04,640
1107 from Salty Crayon.

1956
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:05,320
Howdy, boardroom.

1957
01:23:05,500 --> 01:23:07,580
Tomorrow at noon to sometime late in the

1958
01:23:07,580 --> 01:23:10,340
evening, local V4V artists in downtown Waco.

1959
01:23:10,480 --> 01:23:11,640
Battle of the bands.

1960
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:13,580
Yes, that's going to be good.

1961
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:16,900
That'll be streamed live, I presume.

1962
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:18,650
Go podcasting.

1963
01:23:19,580 --> 01:23:22,760
54321, no, 5432 from Dreb Scott.

1964
01:23:23,260 --> 01:23:25,660
Boosted McBoost boost, hashtag go podcasting.

1965
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:29,600
Cannabis Records again now with 4,200 stats.

1966
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:31,540
Just checking in on the boardroom.

1967
01:23:31,620 --> 01:23:33,620
The tech solutions here are mind-blowing.

1968
01:23:34,420 --> 01:23:35,180
You bet.

1969
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:37,800
We did the 10,000 from Lincoln.

1970
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:40,900
Did the shout-out to Eric PP for

1971
01:23:40,900 --> 01:23:42,420
bringing Dojo to start nine.

1972
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:43,420
I got to go check that out.

1973
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:46,160
2112 from Eric PP.

1974
01:23:46,340 --> 01:23:48,920
He says, 2112 for episode 212.

1975
01:23:49,140 --> 01:23:49,520
Thank you.

1976
01:23:49,660 --> 01:23:51,800
That's a show number boost expanded.

1977
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:55,160
1234 from Dreb Scott with his pre-show

1978
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:55,620
boost.

1979
01:23:56,100 --> 01:23:58,580
And 123 from Salty Crayon who confirmed the

1980
01:23:58,580 --> 01:23:59,100
bat signal.

1981
01:23:59,100 --> 01:24:00,020
Appreciate that.

1982
01:24:00,500 --> 01:24:02,060
And we are straight.

1983
01:24:02,100 --> 01:24:03,240
Oh, wait, who do I have here?

1984
01:24:03,420 --> 01:24:04,380
Let this come in.

1985
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:08,120
420 from Lyceum.

1986
01:24:08,300 --> 01:24:09,380
Let me see when this came in.

1987
01:24:09,420 --> 01:24:10,520
Did this come in recently?

1988
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:12,960
Four hours ago.

1989
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:14,960
No, I'll leave that for, you have it

1990
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:15,920
on your list, I'm sure.

1991
01:24:17,300 --> 01:24:18,160
Yeah, go ahead.

1992
01:24:18,260 --> 01:24:19,140
Give us the list, Dave.

1993
01:24:20,040 --> 01:24:21,740
This is going to be the, I'm going

1994
01:24:21,740 --> 01:24:23,840
to do the PayPals because they're mixed up.

1995
01:24:23,900 --> 01:24:25,140
I didn't have time to print them.

1996
01:24:25,380 --> 01:24:27,040
We got, I'll do them all together.

1997
01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:28,160
Cone Gloss Buck, $5.

1998
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:29,240
Thank you.

1999
01:24:29,300 --> 01:24:29,960
Appreciate that.

2000
01:24:30,100 --> 01:24:31,620
James Sullivan, $10.

2001
01:24:32,480 --> 01:24:33,980
Christopher Reamer, $10.

2002
01:24:35,420 --> 01:24:40,020
Michael Kimmerer, $5.33. Dreb Scott, $15.

2003
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:42,660
Chris Bernardik, $5.

2004
01:24:43,460 --> 01:24:45,420
And then we had a one-off from

2005
01:24:45,420 --> 01:24:46,780
Daniel Noblog.

2006
01:24:46,940 --> 01:24:49,210
He says, I've been, it's $20.

2007
01:24:50,140 --> 01:24:50,760
Thank you.

2008
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:51,540
Thank you, Daniel.

2009
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:53,520
He says, I've been having fun building a

2010
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:54,900
podcast web app with your API.

2011
01:24:55,100 --> 01:24:56,120
Thanks for running this project.

2012
01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:57,320
Oh, let us know what it is.

2013
01:24:57,420 --> 01:24:58,160
We want to check it out.

2014
01:24:58,860 --> 01:24:59,540
Yeah, absolutely.

2015
01:24:59,980 --> 01:25:03,920
And 99% of people who use the

2016
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:06,940
index never donate, so it's always appreciated.

2017
01:25:07,260 --> 01:25:09,340
It might be 99.5, actually.

2018
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:10,260
Yeah, right.

2019
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:13,500
And we got some booster grams.

2020
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:15,560
We got anonymous podcast guru user.

2021
01:25:15,780 --> 01:25:17,700
I love that guy, 2222.

2022
01:25:18,380 --> 01:25:19,080
Nice row of ducks.

2023
01:25:19,780 --> 01:25:21,960
He says, thanks for being there, even when

2024
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:23,040
someone doesn't feel good.

2025
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:25,400
Enjoy the podcasting 2.0 updates with a

2026
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:27,780
professional but enjoyable casual way.

2027
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:30,420
Bruce from the ugly quacking duck.

2028
01:25:32,950 --> 01:25:33,610
Let's see.

2029
01:25:33,790 --> 01:25:35,050
Oh, we got, let me see if I've

2030
01:25:35,050 --> 01:25:36,550
got Martin Lindeskog.

2031
01:25:36,630 --> 01:25:37,870
I don't have Martin Lindeskog.

2032
01:25:38,210 --> 01:25:39,190
You want to read him?

2033
01:25:39,830 --> 01:25:41,450
Do I have Martin Lindeskog?

2034
01:25:41,710 --> 01:25:43,310
You said you thought I may have him.

2035
01:25:43,830 --> 01:25:44,210
No, no.

2036
01:25:44,530 --> 01:25:45,410
It's a lyceum.

2037
01:25:45,450 --> 01:25:45,830
Oh, I do.

2038
01:25:45,830 --> 01:25:46,510
Yes, yes.

2039
01:25:46,510 --> 01:25:47,830
He says, 420 stats.

2040
01:25:47,970 --> 01:25:49,530
I am flying high at this moment.

2041
01:25:49,530 --> 01:25:51,570
I am now listed on the Superfans chart

2042
01:25:51,570 --> 01:25:53,810
as number four, as being a superfan of

2043
01:25:53,810 --> 01:25:56,450
the Mere Mortals Conversations, Mutton Meat & Music,

2044
01:25:56,610 --> 01:26:00,290
Mere Mortals Book Reviews, Into the Dorfelverse, Diabetic

2045
01:26:00,290 --> 01:26:02,710
Reel, and Disco Swag, a tune by the

2046
01:26:02,710 --> 01:26:03,070
Dorfels.

2047
01:26:03,450 --> 01:26:06,330
I have achieved 8,213 points according to

2048
01:26:06,330 --> 01:26:08,150
truefans.fm slash fans.

2049
01:26:08,510 --> 01:26:10,830
Total listen time, one day, 16 hours and

2050
01:26:10,830 --> 01:26:11,330
11 minutes.

2051
01:26:11,450 --> 01:26:15,250
I have paid 58,019 satoshis.

2052
01:26:15,590 --> 01:26:17,330
Where will I be on April 20th?

2053
01:26:17,330 --> 01:26:18,170
Martin Lindeskog.

2054
01:26:18,270 --> 01:26:19,830
High five for him, podcast.

2055
01:26:20,310 --> 01:26:21,650
Lyceum on truefans.

2056
01:26:22,010 --> 01:26:22,590
All right, Martin.

2057
01:26:22,910 --> 01:26:23,250
Very nice.

2058
01:26:23,550 --> 01:26:26,710
See, that's what Sam's doing something interesting there.

2059
01:26:27,390 --> 01:26:29,750
He's giving people bonus points and all kinds

2060
01:26:29,750 --> 01:26:30,190
of things.

2061
01:26:30,430 --> 01:26:31,030
I like it.

2062
01:26:31,310 --> 01:26:31,890
Very cool.

2063
01:26:32,710 --> 01:26:33,190
Gamification.

2064
01:26:33,650 --> 01:26:34,810
Yes, that's what we call it.

2065
01:26:35,730 --> 01:26:38,530
Brian of London, 10,948.

2066
01:26:38,710 --> 01:26:39,430
Sass through Castomatic.

2067
01:26:39,570 --> 01:26:41,410
He says, podcasting 2.0 has been so

2068
01:26:41,410 --> 01:26:43,470
successful, it's become part of the background.

2069
01:26:43,990 --> 01:26:45,910
Podping is a brand-new internet protocol for

2070
01:26:45,910 --> 01:26:48,750
notifications without any central control of the infrastructure.

2071
01:26:50,830 --> 01:26:51,270
Infrastructure.

2072
01:26:53,190 --> 01:26:55,750
We've barely even touched the future uses.

2073
01:26:56,770 --> 01:26:57,110
Thank you, Brian.

2074
01:26:57,210 --> 01:26:58,870
I will tell you, I showed the tiles

2075
01:26:58,870 --> 01:27:02,170
.podping.org during my presentation.

2076
01:27:02,350 --> 01:27:02,910
Did you?

2077
01:27:03,110 --> 01:27:03,450
Oh, yeah.

2078
01:27:03,590 --> 01:27:05,750
Then I said right up front, now, you

2079
01:27:05,750 --> 01:27:06,950
don't know what could come through.

2080
01:27:07,550 --> 01:27:09,510
The images you see may not be safe

2081
01:27:09,510 --> 01:27:11,530
for this room, but luckily it was okay.

2082
01:27:11,770 --> 01:27:14,610
But people were just like, whoa, what is

2083
01:27:14,610 --> 01:27:14,870
this?

2084
01:27:14,870 --> 01:27:16,830
And I said, yeah, that's podcasting 2.0

2085
01:27:16,830 --> 01:27:18,930
features updating in real time.

2086
01:27:19,430 --> 01:27:21,470
They were very blown away by that.

2087
01:27:22,350 --> 01:27:25,510
CommaStreetBlogger, 18,720 through Fountain.

2088
01:27:26,130 --> 01:27:29,970
He says, howdy, fellow Bitcoin bros, Adam and

2089
01:27:29,970 --> 01:27:30,230
Dave.

2090
01:27:30,890 --> 01:27:32,470
I am hobby cartoonist.

2091
01:27:32,670 --> 01:27:33,750
That's my main hobby.

2092
01:27:34,210 --> 01:27:35,910
So today I want to promote some of

2093
01:27:35,910 --> 01:27:36,590
my stuff.

2094
01:27:37,310 --> 01:27:40,810
My cartoons can be found at www.csb

2095
01:27:40,810 --> 01:27:43,570
.lol. There is RSS feed there.

2096
01:27:43,570 --> 01:27:46,350
And please follow me on X at handle

2097
01:27:46,350 --> 01:27:47,770
at csb.

2098
01:27:48,390 --> 01:27:52,510
Yes, just three letters, C, S, and B.

2099
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:55,230
I bought that handle from a guy in

2100
01:27:55,230 --> 01:27:56,610
Portugal a long time ago.

2101
01:27:56,730 --> 01:28:01,390
And on the Fediverse at csb at poa

2102
01:28:01,390 --> 01:28:06,110
.st. On an extreme free speech instance, poa

2103
01:28:06,110 --> 01:28:08,010
.st. Yo, CSB.

2104
01:28:08,350 --> 01:28:08,530
Wow.

2105
01:28:08,810 --> 01:28:11,230
Yes, that is quite the extreme free speech

2106
01:28:11,230 --> 01:28:11,690
instance.

2107
01:28:12,250 --> 01:28:13,590
Oh, yeah.

2108
01:28:14,070 --> 01:28:16,710
Whenever you get a mention from someone on

2109
01:28:16,710 --> 01:28:19,510
poa.st, it's usually not good.

2110
01:28:19,870 --> 01:28:20,810
You just run to the hills.

2111
01:28:21,310 --> 01:28:22,630
And then you mute, mute, mute.

2112
01:28:22,750 --> 01:28:22,950
Yeah.

2113
01:28:23,330 --> 01:28:25,250
No, I actually never mute anybody.

2114
01:28:25,410 --> 01:28:26,710
I'm interested to see what people, I may

2115
01:28:26,710 --> 01:28:28,350
not respond, but I don't mute people.

2116
01:28:28,450 --> 01:28:29,350
I want to see what they're saying.

2117
01:28:29,510 --> 01:28:30,030
I'm interested.

2118
01:28:30,490 --> 01:28:31,170
I don't get triggered.

2119
01:28:31,270 --> 01:28:31,390
That's it.

2120
01:28:32,070 --> 01:28:33,410
Oh, thank you all so much.

2121
01:28:33,530 --> 01:28:33,890
Thank you.

2122
01:28:33,970 --> 01:28:35,150
That is a beautiful group.

2123
01:28:35,230 --> 01:28:36,370
We appreciate you so much.

2124
01:28:36,410 --> 01:28:38,790
Thank you very much, boardroom, for being here

2125
01:28:38,790 --> 01:28:41,530
with us and for continuing the conversation at

2126
01:28:41,530 --> 01:28:44,310
podcastindex.social. We'll get through this, people.

2127
01:28:44,610 --> 01:28:46,050
There is a very bright future.

2128
01:28:46,170 --> 01:28:49,750
Just remember that we've been writing the encyclopedia

2129
01:28:49,750 --> 01:28:52,210
while not listening to everything that's happening on

2130
01:28:52,210 --> 01:28:52,810
the outside.

2131
01:28:53,090 --> 01:28:56,710
And so, hope you're able to gain some

2132
01:28:56,710 --> 01:28:58,870
wisdom from this Boots on the Ground report.

2133
01:28:59,830 --> 01:29:02,770
Now, is this, is A Song is Born,

2134
01:29:02,910 --> 01:29:04,590
is that a movie that should be watched

2135
01:29:04,590 --> 01:29:05,810
or is it a movie that should just

2136
01:29:05,810 --> 01:29:06,530
be talked about?

2137
01:29:07,810 --> 01:29:10,110
I would recommend watching it, actually.

2138
01:29:10,550 --> 01:29:11,810
It's quite interesting.

2139
01:29:12,370 --> 01:29:13,510
It's a cute movie.

2140
01:29:13,650 --> 01:29:14,790
There's cute girls in it.

2141
01:29:14,930 --> 01:29:15,110
Yeah.

2142
01:29:15,610 --> 01:29:16,050
Okay.

2143
01:29:17,690 --> 01:29:19,490
Danny K, man, how can you go wrong?

2144
01:29:19,590 --> 01:29:20,990
It's Danny K, everybody.

2145
01:29:21,130 --> 01:29:21,630
He's perfect.

2146
01:29:21,870 --> 01:29:22,450
That dude can dance.

2147
01:29:22,690 --> 01:29:23,010
Yes.

2148
01:29:23,050 --> 01:29:25,870
Thank you very much, Dave, and feel better,

2149
01:29:25,990 --> 01:29:26,090
brother.

2150
01:29:26,230 --> 01:29:27,950
I hope you get through this very quickly.

2151
01:29:28,630 --> 01:29:29,090
Thanks, man.

2152
01:29:29,230 --> 01:29:30,930
And thank you so much, boardroom.

2153
01:29:31,070 --> 01:29:32,190
We appreciate you.

2154
01:29:32,250 --> 01:29:33,990
We will return next Friday to bring you

2155
01:29:33,990 --> 01:29:36,870
another episode of the one and only Podcasting

2156
01:29:36,870 --> 01:29:52,750
2.0. Why

2157
01:29:52,750 --> 01:29:53,530
is that so cool?

2158
01:29:54,270 --> 01:29:58,450
You have been listening to Podcasting 2.0.

2159
01:29:58,530 --> 01:30:02,150
Visit podcastindex.org for more information.

2160
01:30:02,710 --> 01:30:04,090
Go podcasting!

2161
01:30:04,090 --> 01:30:06,150
I want an immediate hammer blow.