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Podcasting 2.0 for April 4th, 2025, episode

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217, Post-Economic.

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Hey everybody, welcome once again to Podcasting 2

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.0. We're not just a podcast, it is

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a board meeting of the most important people

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in podcasting today.

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And some of them are from podcasting from

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yesterday and from way, way yesterday.

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Some of us are boomers.

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We are the only board room that isn't

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broadcasting live from Podcasting Movement Evolutions.

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I'm Adam Curry, here in the heart of

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the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the

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man who fights AI email spam 24-7.

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Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one, the only, Mr. on stage

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himself, Dave Jones.

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I will have you know that I tweeted

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and tweeted in the intro.

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During the intro, I hit it at the,

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I mean, you hit the post, I hit

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the post at the exact same time.

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I mean, it's a post-a-thon.

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It is beautiful.

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Right under the wire.

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You said, Dave Jones post.

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Yeah, perfect.

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Perfect.

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Well, everybody, welcome to the official board meeting

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of Podcasting 2.0. Yes, we are not

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coming to you live from Podcast Movement Evolutions.

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And I don't, this says, wait, hello, Fred

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FM in the chat.

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What?

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In the board, in the boardroom, hello, Fred

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dash FM.

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Oh, yeah.

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Announcements disabled, but we'll continue monitoring, but remain

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quiet.

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You have to understand that we have the

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most awesomest people in our community.

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So when, so this Podcasting 2.0 board

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room, when it's not being used by us,

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and of course, we, we allow Oystein Berger

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to come in after the show.

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And, and I mean, he, he really messes

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it up.

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I mean, there's candy wrappers everywhere.

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There's empty cans of soda, but he does

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clean it up.

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He cleans it up.

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And so then in between all that, you

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get song announcements from hello, Fred.

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Like some used, some of those office fluorescent

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bulbs, the long ones like laying in the

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corner, all burned out.

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Yeah.

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Do people still use those?

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Um, the new thing is these led panels

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that replace those.

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Oh, it's so it's horrible.

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Cause you know, we use horrible, you know,

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we used to do with those with the,

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with the, the fluorescent, uh, the, Oh, we

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call them and watch them explode.

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No.

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Well, what you would do is, uh, so

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we go up on the roof where we

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had the pirate radio station in Amsterdam.

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So we'd be on the roof underneath the

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antenna and then we'd each get one and

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they would light up like lightsabers.

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You could have lightsabers.

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Now, of course, if you actually crashed against

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each other, then your lightsaber was gone, but

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it was pretty cool.

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They were the radiation from the radio.

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I guess it's radiation, right?

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Oh yeah.

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I mean, you can, you can hold one

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of those next to your ham radio antenna.

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It'll light up too.

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Yikes.

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As long as you hold onto the metal

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part, but don't worry about it, but don't

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worry about EMF and don't ever touch.

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If you're holding onto the metal part, don't

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ever touch the antenna itself with your, with

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your light.

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That's a bad idea.

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Lord have mercy.

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But that phone in your pocket is fine.

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Don't worry about nothing wrong with that.

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Oh, that'll also light it up.

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I'm sure one of these phones, if it's

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ringing.

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Oh yeah.

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Oh, definitely.

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Those things light up at just with the

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littlest amount of power.

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It's pretty amazing.

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That's kind of creepy, honestly.

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Well, that's why people always got headaches in

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offices and workshops and stuff is, you know,

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if you were susceptible to it and you

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had those lights, they're just radiating all kinds

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of crap down on you.

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The led light panels are, are worse though,

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because they just feel, it's like, it's like

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you're in, it's like you're being questioned in

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a, you know, in an interrogation room.

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You can't dim the power on those.

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It's a, it's only one, one single dimmers

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in offices.

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It's like, it's like the light is either

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own and you, you work slave or the

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light is off and the clean and the

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cleaning crew is there.

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So work slave, that's how this stuff works.

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Oh, that's funny.

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Let me get the ISO of that.

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Yeah, there we go.

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Perfect.

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So, uh, yeah, so, um, as I said

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in the intro, we actually had a little

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back and forth about that this week is

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it's a, it's one, it's probably the toughest

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time of the year for you.

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And so we really appreciate you being here

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today for the board meeting.

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I made special dispensation for this year.

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Well, that's, that's really cool because this is

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the time when the company you work for,

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of course, is doing everybody's tax return and

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they're all late.

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And, uh, and I, and I, and I

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noticed that you were working, it seemed more

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hours and harder than previous years.

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Cause I've, I've gone through these periods with

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you for about 15 years, I think.

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And, uh, and you said, yeah, it's probably

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the worst.

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And then you came back with AI email

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spam is the worst.

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Oh, I'm so bad off the chart right

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now.

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I mean, phishing has exploded in, in like

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new and impressive ways since the LLM stuff,

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because used to, you could really depend on

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poor translation to sort of identify, but now

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you can't.

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Wow.

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You can't, I mean, they all, all the

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emails are grammatically really good.

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So, I mean, you just, it's really hard

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to tell, you know, when something they, they

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look just like normal emails, but they're coming,

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you have to use, you have to go

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to these extra links to find out that

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it, whether or not it's legit, like, um,

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like link detonation and there's these other, you

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know, so you basically in a sandbox environment,

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you, you click, you, you have like a

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VM that spins up that clicks the link,

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goes to where the destination is, is pointing

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you to, which could be, you know, two

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hops away.

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So a common tactic would be, um, some,

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somebody's email account gets hacked at an office

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365 organization.

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Yeah.

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That email is then connected within the office

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365 organization to a SharePoint site in 365.

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And so it has all the whole address

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book, everyone's address book, and it starts to

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email everybody.

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It does have the address book, but what

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happens is the email account, well, the 365

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account gets compromised.

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Then a, a PDF gets uploaded to the

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SharePoint site for that, or the one drive

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for that user.

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This happened to our church.

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Exactly this.

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And then you get an email and says,

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click on this link to download the PDF.

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Uh-huh.

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And what's in the PDF is only another

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link to another website, which takes you.

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And that's where the payload gets detonated.

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Yep.

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It's, it's so, it's just, it's just off

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the chain now.

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It was, it was convincing.

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It was a convincing email because it came

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into me and, uh, Pastor Jimmy always emails

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me his, uh, his file, which is basically

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all of his devotionals.

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And I edit them up, chop them up,

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put them into Hello Fred.

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And it happened to be the very day

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I was expecting that to come in.

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Now it came in from his bridge church

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email address.

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And it says, you know, Pastor Jimmy is

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sharing this file with you.

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And, and I'm looking at it.

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I said, well, that's odd.

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Why would, and it said, you know, bridge

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project or even the name of the file.

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It was, it was pretty sophisticated.

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And I'm like, uh, no, this doesn't look

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right.

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And then of course, everybody in, uh, everybody

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who is in the church date, the main

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database, everybody got a copy.

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Yeah.

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A thousand people at least.

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Yeah.

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Everybody got a copy.

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Yeah.

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Stephen B saying that, um, he got a

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fake email from a claiming to be from

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his, uh, HR department.

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Uh, excuse me, HR department.

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We were seeing a bunch of that too.

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So it's like, uh, a new, uh, the

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latest round is, um, here's the latest revisions

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to the employee handbook.

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Oh, that's well, that's actually a classic one.

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I remember that one.

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Yeah.

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Or salary dot XLS, you know, so, Oh,

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I can find out what everyone's salary is.

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Yeah.

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An X, an XL file is the best

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to open up salary adjustments.

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That's another one here.

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Here's the new salary adjustments, a benefit benefits

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onboarding.

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Here's our new benefits onboarding.

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Yeah.

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It's just all over the place.

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Yeah.

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And of course, uh, we still do not

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have an AI to combat the AI created

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email, which is so disappointing because, and it

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can't, it never will be able to, because

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if the AI creates it, that means that

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it's based on what humans actually wrote.

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And so you'll never be able to tell

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the difference.

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You'll never be able to tell you an

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LLM will never be able to tell you,

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tell you whether something is just based on

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language.

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So here, here's, here's what makes it so

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disappointing.

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Sending links and attachments is sort of old

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school.

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It still happens, but it'll get you blocked

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pretty quick.

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What happens now is they just, they just

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want you to, they just want to bait

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you into replying to them.

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So they establish a look of trust and

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then later they hit you with the link.

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And so what you get, which the, the

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initial phishing email is no longer the payload.

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It's just bait.

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And all it says is, you know, Hey,

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uh, you know, I found your company on,

273
00:09:47,950 --> 00:09:49,070
uh, on Google.

274
00:09:49,370 --> 00:09:51,030
Then I just moved to the area.

275
00:09:51,230 --> 00:09:53,030
Oh, well I'd be out already.

276
00:09:53,090 --> 00:09:54,850
I'm like, no, no, no.

277
00:09:56,030 --> 00:09:57,210
There's nothing about it.

278
00:09:57,250 --> 00:09:59,470
That sounds that you could get 10 emails

279
00:09:59,470 --> 00:10:00,450
that all sound that way.

280
00:10:00,450 --> 00:10:02,710
And two of them are, are legit and

281
00:10:02,710 --> 00:10:04,470
eight of them are phishing and you will

282
00:10:04,470 --> 00:10:06,170
never be able to tell the difference with

283
00:10:06,170 --> 00:10:06,530
software.

284
00:10:06,970 --> 00:10:07,550
You just can't.

285
00:10:07,730 --> 00:10:07,850
Yeah.

286
00:10:08,430 --> 00:10:11,710
So I, um, since we're, uh, since we're

287
00:10:11,710 --> 00:10:15,330
talking about it this week in AI, uh,

288
00:10:15,710 --> 00:10:20,450
twilp, twilp, twilp, twilp, twilp, liquid soap, twilps,

289
00:10:20,590 --> 00:10:20,910
twilps.

290
00:10:20,930 --> 00:10:21,290
There we go.

291
00:10:21,330 --> 00:10:22,350
This week in liquid soap.

292
00:10:22,650 --> 00:10:23,830
So I'd signed up.

293
00:10:23,950 --> 00:10:25,690
I, someone had, I read an article about

294
00:10:25,690 --> 00:10:30,590
this new agentic AI called Manis, Manis dot.

295
00:10:30,690 --> 00:10:32,050
I am wait.

296
00:10:32,210 --> 00:10:33,690
M a N what?

297
00:10:33,850 --> 00:10:34,670
Us dot.

298
00:10:34,770 --> 00:10:36,290
I am man.

299
00:10:36,390 --> 00:10:37,450
It's a gentic AI.

300
00:10:37,690 --> 00:10:38,930
It's the new, new thing.

301
00:10:39,010 --> 00:10:40,270
A gentic AI.

302
00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:42,670
Manis dot.

303
00:10:42,770 --> 00:10:43,610
I am.

304
00:10:43,850 --> 00:10:44,070
Yeah.

305
00:10:44,110 --> 00:10:45,230
What is an IM domain?

306
00:10:45,310 --> 00:10:45,850
Where's that from?

307
00:10:46,010 --> 00:10:47,010
I don't know.

308
00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:48,490
I don't know.

309
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:50,190
Email DeMarcos.

310
00:10:50,450 --> 00:10:51,270
I don't know.

311
00:10:51,570 --> 00:10:52,070
Yes.

312
00:10:53,090 --> 00:10:54,070
The isle of man.

313
00:10:54,350 --> 00:10:55,630
Oh, there you go.

314
00:10:56,070 --> 00:10:56,230
Okay.

315
00:10:56,550 --> 00:11:00,290
So I'd heard about this thing and, uh,

316
00:11:00,290 --> 00:11:01,670
I'm like, ah, you know, and I wasn't

317
00:11:01,670 --> 00:11:03,930
even thinking cause I wasn't actually void zeros

318
00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:05,270
helping with the liquid soap.

319
00:11:05,290 --> 00:11:07,870
And it's even hard for the AI known

320
00:11:07,870 --> 00:11:10,430
as void zero, what I want to do.

321
00:11:11,050 --> 00:11:12,670
Uh, so I'm like, oh, this is interesting.

322
00:11:12,870 --> 00:11:17,430
And so I say create, uh, actually it

323
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:18,930
was very simple prompt.

324
00:11:19,010 --> 00:11:20,490
I was, I was quite surprised.

325
00:11:20,990 --> 00:11:23,970
I said, um, what was my initial thing?

326
00:11:24,250 --> 00:11:26,030
Get me the latest Bitcoin price from the

327
00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:28,250
past five hours, five hours show the price

328
00:11:28,250 --> 00:11:28,890
from each hour.

329
00:11:29,290 --> 00:11:32,790
And it created, uh, a web app, a

330
00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:36,650
PWA that I can refresh and, um, and

331
00:11:36,650 --> 00:11:38,970
actually revise that to say, give me 24

332
00:11:38,970 --> 00:11:39,370
hours.

333
00:11:39,630 --> 00:11:44,190
I mean, it is a stunning, stunning little,

334
00:11:44,190 --> 00:11:45,870
uh, little app that it created.

335
00:11:47,010 --> 00:11:49,210
Um, in fact, I can probably, can I,

336
00:11:49,290 --> 00:11:51,130
uh, can I share that link somewhere?

337
00:11:51,290 --> 00:11:51,550
Hold on.

338
00:11:51,610 --> 00:11:52,750
I should be able to share the link,

339
00:11:52,770 --> 00:11:53,170
I guess.

340
00:11:53,930 --> 00:11:55,910
Um, created an app, but where did it

341
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:56,530
put the app?

342
00:11:56,590 --> 00:11:57,550
Where does it on my desk?

343
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:58,090
No, I did.

344
00:11:58,150 --> 00:12:01,270
It created a, when I created, it creates

345
00:12:01,270 --> 00:12:01,890
a website.

346
00:12:02,730 --> 00:12:03,750
This is what's crazy.

347
00:12:04,410 --> 00:12:06,390
So create, it created a website.

348
00:12:06,490 --> 00:12:06,810
Let's see.

349
00:12:06,830 --> 00:12:08,270
I'm, it's going through all of the things

350
00:12:08,270 --> 00:12:08,550
here.

351
00:12:09,490 --> 00:12:10,870
Let me see if this is the one.

352
00:12:10,950 --> 00:12:13,750
Is that the five hour?

353
00:12:13,890 --> 00:12:15,290
Let me see the 24 hour.

354
00:12:16,410 --> 00:12:19,990
Um, I want to post it into the

355
00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:20,490
boardroom.

356
00:12:21,210 --> 00:12:21,970
Here we go.

357
00:12:22,170 --> 00:12:22,470
Okay.

358
00:12:22,950 --> 00:12:25,450
Manners dot space sounds kind of gross, but

359
00:12:25,450 --> 00:12:25,930
here we go.

360
00:12:26,410 --> 00:12:27,410
So there you go.

361
00:12:27,790 --> 00:12:31,830
And, uh, it's, it's stunning and it did

362
00:12:31,830 --> 00:12:33,450
all this stuff I didn't ask for.

363
00:12:33,550 --> 00:12:35,030
It has a beautiful chart.

364
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:37,390
It shows me the 24 hour change, current

365
00:12:37,390 --> 00:12:39,070
price, 24 hour range.

366
00:12:39,070 --> 00:12:40,810
I'm like, wow, that's, and it, and it

367
00:12:40,810 --> 00:12:41,950
goes through all these steps.

368
00:12:42,030 --> 00:12:44,590
You know, it shows you browsing, looking up

369
00:12:44,590 --> 00:12:45,950
all these different things.

370
00:12:46,030 --> 00:12:48,550
I'm like, okay, this one can help me

371
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:50,150
with my liquid soap problem.

372
00:12:51,050 --> 00:12:51,570
Nope.

373
00:12:51,830 --> 00:12:52,210
Nope.

374
00:12:53,950 --> 00:12:54,470
Nope.

375
00:12:55,630 --> 00:12:58,150
And you can see it browsing the documentation

376
00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:59,970
for the version I have, or at least

377
00:12:59,970 --> 00:13:00,890
it says it is.

378
00:13:01,310 --> 00:13:03,730
And it's, and just, it keeps throwing errors

379
00:13:03,730 --> 00:13:05,650
every single time I throw in an error.

380
00:13:05,790 --> 00:13:08,830
It's like, okay, I apologize for misunderstanding your

381
00:13:08,830 --> 00:13:09,390
requirements.

382
00:13:09,530 --> 00:13:10,430
Let me clarify.

383
00:13:10,750 --> 00:13:11,750
It just keeps on going.

384
00:13:12,110 --> 00:13:13,250
And then of course I ran out of

385
00:13:13,250 --> 00:13:13,630
credits.

386
00:13:13,930 --> 00:13:15,730
It didn't, it ran out of credits, man.

387
00:13:15,810 --> 00:13:17,910
I've got no, just give us some credit,

388
00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:18,750
some credit.

389
00:13:19,330 --> 00:13:22,830
So I'm like, okay, I'll, uh, you know,

390
00:13:22,830 --> 00:13:23,970
I'm, I'm gonna, I'm in it.

391
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:24,430
Okay.

392
00:13:24,450 --> 00:13:25,870
You guys are trying to do something here.

393
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:28,990
So I went to the upgrade much 39

394
00:13:28,990 --> 00:13:31,730
bucks a month, not cheap.

395
00:13:32,350 --> 00:13:33,030
Like, okay.

396
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:36,470
And so I burned through 2000 credits with

397
00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:37,230
a couple of queries.

398
00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:39,330
So now I have 3,500 credits.

399
00:13:39,530 --> 00:13:40,870
So I guess they'll get me 10 more

400
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:41,750
queries maybe.

401
00:13:42,430 --> 00:13:42,910
Yeah.

402
00:13:43,570 --> 00:13:46,010
And with all these errors, mistakes, it's just

403
00:13:46,010 --> 00:13:46,510
not good.

404
00:13:46,590 --> 00:13:48,950
And then now it says, choose the approach

405
00:13:48,950 --> 00:13:50,390
that best fits your needs.

406
00:13:50,810 --> 00:13:53,170
Could be this script, could be this script.

407
00:13:53,890 --> 00:13:56,050
So it just can't do it.

408
00:13:57,330 --> 00:13:58,770
Have you looked at the source code of

409
00:13:58,770 --> 00:13:59,190
this thing?

410
00:14:00,390 --> 00:14:01,330
Of the app?

411
00:14:01,730 --> 00:14:02,190
Yeah.

412
00:14:02,250 --> 00:14:03,810
Have you right-clicked and done view source?

413
00:14:04,870 --> 00:14:06,470
Um, I will do it right now.

414
00:14:07,250 --> 00:14:08,230
Is it crazy?

415
00:14:10,830 --> 00:14:13,630
There's a lot of Chinese, uh, comments in

416
00:14:13,630 --> 00:14:14,570
this, uh, source code.

417
00:14:14,890 --> 00:14:15,370
Really?

418
00:14:15,910 --> 00:14:16,390
Yeah.

419
00:14:17,210 --> 00:14:19,450
Where's the, where's the Chinese comments I'm looking

420
00:14:19,450 --> 00:14:19,710
for?

421
00:14:19,770 --> 00:14:21,470
Oh, oh yeah.

422
00:14:22,450 --> 00:14:22,890
Uh-huh.

423
00:14:23,890 --> 00:14:24,550
Oh man.

424
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:24,750
Yeah.

425
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:25,890
What's, what does all that mean?

426
00:14:26,030 --> 00:14:26,730
I don't know.

427
00:14:26,730 --> 00:14:27,970
The Chiners.

428
00:14:28,250 --> 00:14:29,770
You're, you're in bed with the Chiners.

429
00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:33,030
What is shadow?

430
00:14:33,130 --> 00:14:36,190
What is, what is, uh, symbol, symbol, symbol,

431
00:14:36,290 --> 00:14:36,870
shadow Dom?

432
00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:37,610
What does that mean?

433
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:38,030
I don't know.

434
00:14:38,110 --> 00:14:39,450
It's, it's a shadow Dom.

435
00:14:39,530 --> 00:14:39,850
I'm sure.

436
00:14:39,950 --> 00:14:41,430
I'm sure it's now eating away at my

437
00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:43,470
hard drive doing something I don't want.

438
00:14:45,810 --> 00:14:48,210
So it's, uh, anyway, it doesn't really matter

439
00:14:48,210 --> 00:14:50,410
because everything is in meltdown right now.

440
00:14:50,990 --> 00:14:53,250
And, uh, and they're blaming and they're blaming

441
00:14:53,250 --> 00:14:55,690
the, the stock market meltdown is so cool.

442
00:14:56,750 --> 00:14:59,370
Uh, Scott Besson, our, uh, treasury of the

443
00:14:59,370 --> 00:15:01,290
secretary is saying, well, I just want you

444
00:15:01,290 --> 00:15:03,070
to know that ever since deep seek, we

445
00:15:03,070 --> 00:15:04,370
already reached peak AI.

446
00:15:04,590 --> 00:15:06,030
So it's kind of normal that this is

447
00:15:06,030 --> 00:15:07,270
all falling apart now.

448
00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:08,650
And I agree with him.

449
00:15:08,930 --> 00:15:10,750
I kind of, yeah, I was about to

450
00:15:10,750 --> 00:15:12,050
say, I kind of think that's accurate.

451
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:13,870
I just, we just needed the catalyst.

452
00:15:14,510 --> 00:15:16,930
Let me see if I can, uh, find

453
00:15:16,930 --> 00:15:17,490
that clip.

454
00:15:17,690 --> 00:15:19,030
That was kind of interesting.

455
00:15:20,610 --> 00:15:23,530
Uh, see, was this it?

456
00:15:23,870 --> 00:15:24,650
Yeah, this is it.

457
00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:25,170
Here we go.

458
00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:25,930
This is from Bloomberg.

459
00:15:26,570 --> 00:15:26,790
Okay.

460
00:15:27,010 --> 00:15:30,950
But since the peaks in February, this is

461
00:15:30,950 --> 00:15:33,370
obviously about the tariffs down 8%.

462
00:15:33,370 --> 00:15:35,270
I think the NASDAQ from its high most

463
00:15:35,270 --> 00:15:36,810
recently is down 12%.

464
00:15:36,810 --> 00:15:40,410
So far though, these kind of, this kind

465
00:15:40,410 --> 00:15:43,110
of market down draft so far this year

466
00:15:43,110 --> 00:15:44,350
is not concerning you.

467
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:47,210
Well, look in my old business, I was

468
00:15:47,210 --> 00:15:49,950
very concerned about market movements and I'm trying

469
00:15:49,950 --> 00:15:51,770
to be a secretary of treasury, not a

470
00:15:51,770 --> 00:15:52,670
market commentator.

471
00:15:53,150 --> 00:15:55,410
What I would point out is that especially

472
00:15:55,410 --> 00:15:59,370
the NASDAQ NASDAQ peaked on deep seek day

473
00:15:59,370 --> 00:16:02,270
that, so that's a mag seven problem, not

474
00:16:02,270 --> 00:16:03,090
a MAGA problem.

475
00:16:03,310 --> 00:16:06,230
Bam mag seven problem, not a MAGA problem.

476
00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:07,490
And there's your soundbite.

477
00:16:07,790 --> 00:16:08,310
Yep.

478
00:16:09,790 --> 00:16:12,010
So totally disagree with him.

479
00:16:12,070 --> 00:16:13,210
I think, I think it makes sense.

480
00:16:13,270 --> 00:16:13,430
Yeah.

481
00:16:14,530 --> 00:16:17,770
Uh, meanwhile, back in podcast land, everybody's a

482
00:16:17,770 --> 00:16:19,070
podcast movement evolutions.

483
00:16:20,270 --> 00:16:21,470
Not everybody there.

484
00:16:21,610 --> 00:16:21,810
No.

485
00:16:22,170 --> 00:16:25,170
And they're all talking about a video apparently

486
00:16:25,170 --> 00:16:27,030
for what I understand.

487
00:16:28,970 --> 00:16:31,130
What's what's new video is video.

488
00:16:31,170 --> 00:16:31,790
We've got to have video.

489
00:16:31,950 --> 00:16:32,850
Don't forget to do your show.

490
00:16:32,890 --> 00:16:34,330
You got to have your, the short play.

491
00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:35,670
You got to use a short play for

492
00:16:35,670 --> 00:16:37,490
your video, for your podcast, the short play.

493
00:16:37,570 --> 00:16:38,470
You know what the short play is on

494
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:38,650
today.

495
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:39,530
You've got to have a short play.

496
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:40,290
What's your short play.

497
00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:41,870
What is a short play?

498
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:42,790
I have no idea what that is.

499
00:16:42,810 --> 00:16:44,210
You got to have videos of the YouTube

500
00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:47,610
shorts promoting your stuff so people can discover

501
00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:50,590
you discovery, even though the number one way

502
00:16:50,590 --> 00:16:52,190
of discovery is still friends and family.

503
00:16:52,730 --> 00:16:53,070
Yeah.

504
00:16:53,130 --> 00:16:53,650
Word of mouth.

505
00:16:53,850 --> 00:16:54,150
Yes.

506
00:16:54,370 --> 00:16:58,950
And if I, uh, if I may be

507
00:16:58,950 --> 00:17:04,190
so bold to, uh, congratulate, uh, this group,

508
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:08,510
this entire group, uh, on our, on our,

509
00:17:08,569 --> 00:17:09,310
on our achievement.

510
00:17:09,589 --> 00:17:09,849
Yes.

511
00:17:09,930 --> 00:17:13,510
We are the number one podcast directory, everybody.

512
00:17:14,170 --> 00:17:19,109
According to the pod news podcast surveys, the

513
00:17:19,109 --> 00:17:20,750
report card report card.

514
00:17:20,829 --> 00:17:20,930
Yeah.

515
00:17:20,930 --> 00:17:23,589
The report card thumb finger number one.

516
00:17:23,630 --> 00:17:23,810
Yes.

517
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:24,310
Right, baby.

518
00:17:24,829 --> 00:17:26,869
And you see right underneath us is a

519
00:17:26,869 --> 00:17:32,510
Spotify, Apple, Amazon, Google, which one does not

520
00:17:32,510 --> 00:17:33,730
belong in the list.

521
00:17:35,230 --> 00:17:38,210
The one that runs on donations from a

522
00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:41,210
ragtag crew of nut jobs who can't seem

523
00:17:41,210 --> 00:17:42,350
to do anything right.

524
00:17:42,790 --> 00:17:48,890
I wish I wish that, um, that Apple

525
00:17:48,890 --> 00:17:52,490
and Google and Spotify could see our backend

526
00:17:52,490 --> 00:17:53,230
infrastructure.

527
00:17:53,230 --> 00:17:56,230
And I mean, like it would just be

528
00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:57,670
in a complete embarrassment.

529
00:17:57,890 --> 00:17:59,110
We should do tours.

530
00:17:59,270 --> 00:18:01,570
We should do tours through your office.

531
00:18:02,410 --> 00:18:04,830
Look at our Linode dashboard.

532
00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:06,070
Here's the tour.

533
00:18:07,170 --> 00:18:09,890
I mean, like it's, it would be, it'd

534
00:18:09,890 --> 00:18:11,410
be hilarious to just watch it.

535
00:18:11,550 --> 00:18:12,870
It's like, you just have to shake your

536
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:13,030
head.

537
00:18:13,290 --> 00:18:15,110
Why are these guys?

538
00:18:15,210 --> 00:18:15,870
Number one?

539
00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:16,470
What?

540
00:18:16,610 --> 00:18:16,970
Why?

541
00:18:17,170 --> 00:18:17,370
Why?

542
00:18:17,670 --> 00:18:19,710
I just like saying, check out our backend.

543
00:18:21,230 --> 00:18:23,170
They should, they should check out our backend.

544
00:18:23,370 --> 00:18:23,890
It's great.

545
00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:25,910
We've got a good looking backend.

546
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:28,110
We've got a great looking backend.

547
00:18:29,050 --> 00:18:31,970
The backend you've created it, red beans and

548
00:18:31,970 --> 00:18:32,150
rice.

549
00:18:32,190 --> 00:18:32,830
Didn't miss it.

550
00:18:33,210 --> 00:18:34,330
I'm telling you red beans.

551
00:18:36,510 --> 00:18:39,570
Um, let's see, what else have you been?

552
00:18:39,650 --> 00:18:40,010
What do you mean?

553
00:18:40,010 --> 00:18:41,470
I mean, you've just been heads down at

554
00:18:41,470 --> 00:18:42,190
the office, right?

555
00:18:42,190 --> 00:18:43,250
It's been, it's been crazy.

556
00:18:43,450 --> 00:18:44,010
I've got nothing today.

557
00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:46,770
I've got nothing but our, but our boy,

558
00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:47,670
but our boy.

559
00:18:47,790 --> 00:18:49,610
Well, let's bring our boy in because, uh,

560
00:18:50,170 --> 00:18:52,190
uh, you invited him last minute and he

561
00:18:52,190 --> 00:18:53,550
was a happy to oblige.

562
00:18:53,570 --> 00:18:54,710
And, uh, we always love that.

563
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:56,670
And it kind of fits with the guests

564
00:18:56,670 --> 00:18:58,710
that we had on, uh, two board meetings

565
00:18:58,710 --> 00:19:01,710
ago, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the podcasting

566
00:19:01,710 --> 00:19:05,350
2.0 boardroom, the international troublemaker who is

567
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:06,190
Matt Medeiros.

568
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:10,670
Hey, I just showed up to a party

569
00:19:10,670 --> 00:19:12,890
with a bag of AI tricks right before.

570
00:19:15,150 --> 00:19:16,130
What bag of tricks?

571
00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:17,370
You got a bag of tricks, show us

572
00:19:17,370 --> 00:19:18,130
your bag of tricks.

573
00:19:18,610 --> 00:19:20,530
Man, we could talk about it, but this

574
00:19:20,530 --> 00:19:22,070
is a, it's a pleasure and an honor

575
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:22,590
to be here.

576
00:19:22,770 --> 00:19:25,110
And, uh, I find some solace in, um,

577
00:19:25,390 --> 00:19:26,810
you know, being here when everyone else is

578
00:19:26,810 --> 00:19:27,310
in Chicago.

579
00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:28,170
So yeah.

580
00:19:28,170 --> 00:19:29,030
How come you're not there?

581
00:19:29,150 --> 00:19:29,430
I know.

582
00:19:29,550 --> 00:19:31,010
Do you, where do you work?

583
00:19:31,030 --> 00:19:31,530
What do you do?

584
00:19:31,570 --> 00:19:32,730
I lost track of you.

585
00:19:32,990 --> 00:19:34,310
Are you still at Castos?

586
00:19:34,450 --> 00:19:37,190
Are you the, you're not the success manager

587
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:37,610
anymore?

588
00:19:38,350 --> 00:19:40,110
No, not the success manager anymore.

589
00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:41,510
So I haven't been there for two years.

590
00:19:41,530 --> 00:19:43,410
I'm back in the WordPress space proper.

591
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:44,890
WordPress space.

592
00:19:45,230 --> 00:19:45,610
Oh yeah.

593
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:47,770
WordPress space.

594
00:19:48,090 --> 00:19:50,070
Work for a company called rocket genius.

595
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:51,830
And we make a form software.

596
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:54,030
Do you, do you need to wear a

597
00:19:54,030 --> 00:19:57,930
suit in your rocket space in your WordPress

598
00:19:57,930 --> 00:19:58,570
space?

599
00:19:58,590 --> 00:20:00,830
So what does, what does rocket genius do?

600
00:20:01,210 --> 00:20:05,130
They make a WordPress plugin called gravity forms

601
00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:07,250
and it's a contact form plugin.

602
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:07,870
Yeah.

603
00:20:08,050 --> 00:20:09,370
So they're actually the, one of the longest

604
00:20:09,370 --> 00:20:11,670
lasting, uh, plugins in the space.

605
00:20:11,790 --> 00:20:14,630
Been around for 15 years, headquartered out of

606
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:15,050
Virginia.

607
00:20:15,530 --> 00:20:17,570
And, uh, I do their podcasts, some of

608
00:20:17,570 --> 00:20:21,430
their YouTube stuff, marketing stuff, and community advocate

609
00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:23,090
for WordPress and gravity forms.

610
00:20:23,290 --> 00:20:25,570
Oh, and so gravity forms has been around

611
00:20:25,570 --> 00:20:26,070
forever.

612
00:20:26,250 --> 00:20:27,190
I remember it too.

613
00:20:27,330 --> 00:20:27,670
Yeah.

614
00:20:27,870 --> 00:20:29,730
Let me guess, uh, with it, you can

615
00:20:29,730 --> 00:20:32,810
create forms easily with, with it.

616
00:20:32,830 --> 00:20:35,970
You can create forms easily payments, anything you

617
00:20:35,970 --> 00:20:38,310
want with inputting data and having something else

618
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:39,370
happen after that.

619
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:41,670
Well, congratulations on the new gig, man.

620
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:42,590
I'm happy for you.

621
00:20:42,850 --> 00:20:45,350
What, uh, what, what facilitated this move?

622
00:20:45,410 --> 00:20:47,070
If you don't mind me asking why, why,

623
00:20:47,090 --> 00:20:49,690
why did you leave podcast space and go

624
00:20:49,690 --> 00:20:51,110
to the WordPress space?

625
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:55,470
Uh, I think it was, um, the economy

626
00:20:55,470 --> 00:20:56,610
as I'm told.

627
00:20:56,990 --> 00:20:59,530
Oh, you were asked to move to the

628
00:20:59,530 --> 00:21:00,230
other space.

629
00:21:00,290 --> 00:21:00,630
Okay.

630
00:21:01,710 --> 00:21:05,550
We're replacing, we're replacing the director podcast success

631
00:21:05,550 --> 00:21:06,790
with an AI bot.

632
00:21:07,150 --> 00:21:07,350
Yes.

633
00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:08,030
Yes.

634
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:08,570
Yeah.

635
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:10,650
Well, you, you came from, but you came

636
00:21:10,650 --> 00:21:12,510
from WordPress and you're just going back to

637
00:21:12,510 --> 00:21:13,270
your roots essentially.

638
00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:13,990
Yeah.

639
00:21:14,130 --> 00:21:15,450
I mean, that's how I got all the

640
00:21:16,410 --> 00:21:17,490
podcasting, uh, roots.

641
00:21:17,550 --> 00:21:20,010
Cause I started my podcast and WordPress about

642
00:21:20,010 --> 00:21:22,830
15 years ago and I was just covering,

643
00:21:22,990 --> 00:21:24,810
you know, if, if folks in the WordPress

644
00:21:24,810 --> 00:21:27,130
world knew about James Cridlin, they would call

645
00:21:27,130 --> 00:21:28,730
me the James Cridlin of WordPress.

646
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:30,450
Uh, wow.

647
00:21:30,810 --> 00:21:31,230
Wow.

648
00:21:31,310 --> 00:21:32,870
I don't know about that one, brother.

649
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:36,050
I've been covering it for a while and

650
00:21:36,050 --> 00:21:37,390
uh, yeah, it was, it was a natural

651
00:21:37,390 --> 00:21:39,790
fit to, to slide back to that side

652
00:21:39,790 --> 00:21:41,070
of, of my career.

653
00:21:41,690 --> 00:21:42,290
Well, cool.

654
00:21:42,470 --> 00:21:44,410
That's an interesting, I like, so I'm, I'm

655
00:21:44,410 --> 00:21:47,570
glad, yeah, I'm glad to have this conversation

656
00:21:47,570 --> 00:21:52,050
because I've been thinking, um, about this for

657
00:21:52,050 --> 00:21:52,650
a long time.

658
00:21:52,810 --> 00:21:59,450
There's this weird sort of, um, uneasiness between

659
00:21:59,450 --> 00:22:04,290
podcasting and open source, like the, I would

660
00:22:04,290 --> 00:22:07,830
say like the podcast, uh, industrial complex and

661
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:11,090
open source, which is, is ironic when you

662
00:22:11,090 --> 00:22:14,150
think about it because, you know, podcasting was

663
00:22:14,150 --> 00:22:16,890
born in about as open source way you

664
00:22:16,890 --> 00:22:19,350
could, you could possibly imagine with, you know,

665
00:22:19,370 --> 00:22:21,850
RSS and then an OPML directory.

666
00:22:22,930 --> 00:22:27,330
And, and, and then it became like rapidly

667
00:22:27,330 --> 00:22:29,330
when it came, became sort of like an

668
00:22:29,330 --> 00:22:32,070
industry, everybody went secret.

669
00:22:32,490 --> 00:22:34,450
Everybody has proprietary stuff.

670
00:22:34,670 --> 00:22:37,450
You know, nobody shares any code or anything.

671
00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:41,450
And so it's like, it feels like, it

672
00:22:41,450 --> 00:22:42,930
feels like it was born in open source

673
00:22:42,930 --> 00:22:45,490
and then rapidly sort of like open source

674
00:22:45,490 --> 00:22:47,870
was like rug pulled out, but it's still

675
00:22:47,870 --> 00:22:51,930
at the foundation of what podcasting actually is,

676
00:22:52,650 --> 00:22:54,450
you know, it's, it's a weird, it's a

677
00:22:54,450 --> 00:22:55,090
weird dichotomy.

678
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:55,850
Yeah.

679
00:22:56,010 --> 00:22:59,610
I mean, the reason why I get so

680
00:22:59,610 --> 00:23:03,550
emotional about this, about this stuff, uh, like

681
00:23:03,550 --> 00:23:05,010
my response to Tom and like some other

682
00:23:05,010 --> 00:23:07,670
stuff I've, I've published in the past is

683
00:23:07,670 --> 00:23:10,070
because I've heard the same kind of criticisms

684
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:13,150
to WordPress for literally 15 years.

685
00:23:13,630 --> 00:23:16,610
And aside from automatic laying off 16%

686
00:23:16,610 --> 00:23:18,530
of their staff two days ago, Oh, I

687
00:23:18,530 --> 00:23:19,490
didn't hear about this.

688
00:23:19,770 --> 00:23:20,130
Yeah.

689
00:23:20,650 --> 00:23:22,710
Um, Oh, that explains a lot.

690
00:23:22,830 --> 00:23:23,350
Yeah.

691
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:25,450
There's a whole thing happening, um, with automatic,

692
00:23:25,450 --> 00:23:28,330
but I've heard the same criticisms of, of

693
00:23:28,330 --> 00:23:31,190
WordPress for 15 years, you know, bloated software,

694
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:33,590
old, nobody uses PHP anymore.

695
00:23:33,810 --> 00:23:37,010
Uh, the competitors like Wix and Squarespace or

696
00:23:37,010 --> 00:23:38,370
video video is better.

697
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:39,150
Right.

698
00:23:39,290 --> 00:23:40,110
It's the same thing.

699
00:23:40,210 --> 00:23:41,850
It's the same sort of thing happening.

700
00:23:42,110 --> 00:23:43,270
And, but then when you take a step

701
00:23:43,270 --> 00:23:46,710
back and you look for WordPress powers 45

702
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:49,710
% of the websites on the internet, which

703
00:23:49,710 --> 00:23:51,650
is just a massive number.

704
00:23:51,650 --> 00:23:53,850
So it's like, how bad could this be

705
00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:56,610
if people are still using this solution that

706
00:23:56,610 --> 00:23:58,750
you keep telling me is dying year after

707
00:23:58,750 --> 00:23:59,050
year.

708
00:23:59,850 --> 00:24:00,450
Yeah.

709
00:24:00,770 --> 00:24:01,270
Yeah.

710
00:24:01,330 --> 00:24:03,830
The death of the death of PHP has

711
00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:07,730
been, has been proclaimed forever, you know, and

712
00:24:07,730 --> 00:24:12,490
then the, you know, WordPress, one thing that's

713
00:24:12,490 --> 00:24:16,490
interesting to me about WordPress as it relates

714
00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:19,930
to podcasting is that it's probably at least

715
00:24:19,930 --> 00:24:23,270
as responsible for the success of podcasting as

716
00:24:23,270 --> 00:24:23,630
Apple.

717
00:24:24,550 --> 00:24:26,650
I mean, for sure.

718
00:24:26,650 --> 00:24:28,870
Wasn't it baked in very early?

719
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:32,490
Uh, so they didn't have, they had RSS

720
00:24:32,490 --> 00:24:35,610
feed for every link of a WordPress website.

721
00:24:35,610 --> 00:24:38,290
So no matter what page you're on in

722
00:24:38,290 --> 00:24:41,210
WordPress, you can do slash feed and it

723
00:24:41,210 --> 00:24:42,090
will generate.

724
00:24:42,710 --> 00:24:42,950
Yeah.

725
00:24:43,010 --> 00:24:44,590
It'll give you the feed for that category

726
00:24:44,590 --> 00:24:45,690
or that archive.

727
00:24:45,950 --> 00:24:50,010
Um, but Castos was actually, uh, they got

728
00:24:50,010 --> 00:24:52,210
investment from automatic, uh, seed investment.

729
00:24:52,210 --> 00:24:54,170
That's how I got the job.

730
00:24:54,430 --> 00:24:54,530
Yeah.

731
00:24:55,130 --> 00:24:57,930
And the whole time when I was there,

732
00:24:58,210 --> 00:25:00,470
Craig was like trying to tell them, like,

733
00:25:00,510 --> 00:25:02,930
don't, don't you want to, uh, don't you

734
00:25:02,930 --> 00:25:04,830
want to scoop us up and own us?

735
00:25:04,830 --> 00:25:06,310
Cause they had bought pocket cast when I

736
00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:08,630
was at Castos, it was a natural progression

737
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:10,450
to just kind of own a hosting company

738
00:25:10,450 --> 00:25:10,710
too.

739
00:25:10,890 --> 00:25:12,770
So, um, they, they still didn't do it

740
00:25:12,770 --> 00:25:14,290
and spent hundreds of millions of dollars on

741
00:25:14,290 --> 00:25:16,410
other things that have got them in trouble.

742
00:25:16,410 --> 00:25:20,050
But, um, yeah, I mean, certainly like publishing,

743
00:25:20,290 --> 00:25:23,110
uh, you know, putting words onto the internet

744
00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:24,190
with an RSS feed.

745
00:25:24,270 --> 00:25:24,410
Yeah.

746
00:25:24,450 --> 00:25:28,410
I mean, WordPress is, is, is the, the

747
00:25:28,410 --> 00:25:30,190
de facto CMS for that, in my opinion.

748
00:25:30,450 --> 00:25:32,870
So just as I'm sorry, Dave, go ahead.

749
00:25:33,390 --> 00:25:35,290
No, I was just gonna say, am I

750
00:25:35,290 --> 00:25:35,630
wrong?

751
00:25:35,710 --> 00:25:37,010
Or do you still have to have a,

752
00:25:37,170 --> 00:25:38,350
do you have to have a plugin to

753
00:25:38,350 --> 00:25:40,410
do to put an enclosure into an, into

754
00:25:40,410 --> 00:25:41,450
a WordPress RSS feed?

755
00:25:41,870 --> 00:25:42,110
Yeah.

756
00:25:42,430 --> 00:25:42,650
Yeah.

757
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:44,670
So I guess PowerPress.

758
00:25:44,970 --> 00:25:45,490
Yeah.

759
00:25:45,810 --> 00:25:47,870
I guess PowerPress was the first one, right?

760
00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:52,170
Um, PowerPress was probably the first one, but

761
00:25:52,170 --> 00:25:56,430
where Castos has seriously simple podcasting plugin and

762
00:25:56,430 --> 00:25:58,450
it was a different name and Craig acquired

763
00:25:58,450 --> 00:25:59,330
it from a developer.

764
00:25:59,530 --> 00:26:02,150
Um, they came out roughly the same time

765
00:26:02,150 --> 00:26:03,530
ish.

766
00:26:03,650 --> 00:26:05,650
I just remember back in the day you

767
00:26:05,650 --> 00:26:09,090
could, you know, like so many were, um,

768
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:11,570
and still are, but really, but really early

769
00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:14,610
on there were so many, uh, podcasts being

770
00:26:14,610 --> 00:26:15,930
run off of WordPress site.

771
00:26:16,370 --> 00:26:16,570
Yeah.

772
00:26:17,330 --> 00:26:17,890
Yeah.

773
00:26:18,330 --> 00:26:20,410
Uh, since just, we don't have to go

774
00:26:20,410 --> 00:26:22,830
into it too deeply, but of course I've

775
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:28,130
been following the, uh, WP engine WordPress fracas

776
00:26:28,130 --> 00:26:28,950
back and forth.

777
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:30,970
Now, all of a sudden it feels like,

778
00:26:31,010 --> 00:26:33,470
was this some kind of elaborate set up

779
00:26:33,470 --> 00:26:37,010
for a downsizing due to the economy?

780
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:38,030
Yeah.

781
00:26:38,590 --> 00:26:41,990
Um, uh, it, it, there's a lot here.

782
00:26:42,030 --> 00:26:43,070
I could go into it forever, but I'll

783
00:26:43,070 --> 00:26:44,910
try to summarize as quickly as possible.

784
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:50,170
I mean, Mullenweg, uh, fancies himself probably along

785
00:26:50,170 --> 00:26:53,270
the same lines of like an Elon Zuckerberg,

786
00:26:53,550 --> 00:26:57,310
uh, you know, your, your typical tech guy.

787
00:26:57,530 --> 00:27:00,950
And, um, you know, he, he has done

788
00:27:00,950 --> 00:27:05,550
some pretty, some pretty big damage to the

789
00:27:05,550 --> 00:27:08,710
community since August or September of last year

790
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:10,890
when we had WordCamp and that's when he

791
00:27:10,890 --> 00:27:13,010
sort of like roasted WP engine over the

792
00:27:13,010 --> 00:27:15,230
coals and his live, his live talk.

793
00:27:15,330 --> 00:27:17,310
He actually kicked them out of the conference

794
00:27:17,310 --> 00:27:19,110
that we were at, um, or tried to

795
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:19,550
kick them out.

796
00:27:19,950 --> 00:27:20,070
Yeah.

797
00:27:20,070 --> 00:27:20,810
And they were sponsored.

798
00:27:20,930 --> 00:27:23,190
I mean, they dropped probably a hundred, 150

799
00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:25,210
,000 to be there with the booth and

800
00:27:25,210 --> 00:27:27,170
a huge team that they bring.

801
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:31,570
And, um, so, you know, fast forward, what,

802
00:27:31,630 --> 00:27:34,130
what we've kind of uncovered through all of

803
00:27:34,130 --> 00:27:38,010
this stuff is when Matt started, uh, Automatic,

804
00:27:38,110 --> 00:27:40,050
he also started the WordPress foundation.

805
00:27:40,410 --> 00:27:40,550
Yeah.

806
00:27:40,610 --> 00:27:42,050
There's a conflict right there.

807
00:27:42,090 --> 00:27:42,330
Right.

808
00:27:42,590 --> 00:27:44,790
And he's on the board of the foundation

809
00:27:44,790 --> 00:27:47,310
and what kind of came out of this,

810
00:27:47,350 --> 00:27:50,450
which nobody knew, uh, everyone always thought WordPress

811
00:27:50,450 --> 00:27:53,030
.org, which is the biggest distribution point for

812
00:27:53,030 --> 00:27:54,170
free themes and plugins.

813
00:27:54,730 --> 00:27:57,010
Everyone thought that that was part of the

814
00:27:57,010 --> 00:27:57,510
foundation.

815
00:27:57,890 --> 00:28:00,410
Well, through all of this discovery of through

816
00:28:00,410 --> 00:28:02,670
legal, we've just found out that he's just

817
00:28:02,670 --> 00:28:04,190
the sole guy who runs it.

818
00:28:05,050 --> 00:28:07,510
Uh, so there is no like protection.

819
00:28:07,610 --> 00:28:10,270
It's just this dude's website who, which literally

820
00:28:10,270 --> 00:28:12,730
powers, you know, 45% of the, of

821
00:28:12,730 --> 00:28:13,070
the web.

822
00:28:13,470 --> 00:28:16,530
Um, and when things started to go South

823
00:28:16,530 --> 00:28:18,910
with WP engine, he, they have a very

824
00:28:18,910 --> 00:28:22,410
popular plugin called advanced custom fields and it

825
00:28:22,410 --> 00:28:24,590
creates custom fields for custom post types.

826
00:28:25,130 --> 00:28:27,910
And he literally just took over there.

827
00:28:28,090 --> 00:28:30,810
Like eminent domain just came in, took over

828
00:28:30,810 --> 00:28:33,990
their plugin, which had millions of installs and

829
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:38,710
just made it secure custom fields by automatic.

830
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:42,230
And like, yeah, it was like the biggest

831
00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:44,630
egregious takeover of open source.

832
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:46,810
Like I think anyone has ever seen.

833
00:28:47,130 --> 00:28:47,230
Right.

834
00:28:47,910 --> 00:28:50,070
Um, and there's just been a lot of

835
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:51,370
like bad stuff happening.

836
00:28:51,450 --> 00:28:53,270
He's kicked people out of, you know, the,

837
00:28:53,370 --> 00:28:56,130
the community, uh, he's banned people from going

838
00:28:56,130 --> 00:28:58,650
to word camps, which are the events held

839
00:28:58,650 --> 00:28:59,330
around the world.

840
00:28:59,550 --> 00:29:01,330
If you criticize them, you were blocked.

841
00:29:01,570 --> 00:29:03,590
Um, it's been a bit of a roller

842
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:04,210
coaster ride.

843
00:29:04,430 --> 00:29:07,570
So, you know, um, I know Matt, uh,

844
00:29:07,570 --> 00:29:10,210
when I was at pod show, we lived

845
00:29:10,210 --> 00:29:12,130
in the same building, we'd bump into each

846
00:29:12,130 --> 00:29:12,370
other.

847
00:29:12,810 --> 00:29:15,190
He was always a really nice guy.

848
00:29:16,050 --> 00:29:19,050
So I never got any of that kind

849
00:29:19,050 --> 00:29:20,750
of Elon juice from him.

850
00:29:21,070 --> 00:29:22,910
Uh, let me rephrase that, but you know,

851
00:29:22,990 --> 00:29:23,770
you know what I'm saying?

852
00:29:23,930 --> 00:29:24,790
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

853
00:29:25,210 --> 00:29:27,570
Uh, he was on a podcast recently, the

854
00:29:27,570 --> 00:29:30,190
guys from, well now owned by HubSpot, uh,

855
00:29:30,370 --> 00:29:32,650
my first million, Sam Parr, some, and the

856
00:29:32,650 --> 00:29:34,070
other guy, I forget his name, but anyway,

857
00:29:34,550 --> 00:29:37,430
he, Sam doesn't really know Matt and he

858
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:39,490
just had like the biggest backhanded compliment where

859
00:29:39,490 --> 00:29:40,810
he was like, wait a minute, WordPress has

860
00:29:40,810 --> 00:29:43,250
45% of the internet share and you're

861
00:29:43,250 --> 00:29:44,490
not the richest guy in the world.

862
00:29:45,090 --> 00:29:46,950
And this is because, well, that's because it's

863
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:48,310
not how open source works.

864
00:29:48,490 --> 00:29:48,590
Right.

865
00:29:48,670 --> 00:29:51,210
Well, I mean, it's like people still think

866
00:29:51,210 --> 00:29:54,310
I'm a billionaire because, oh, you invented podcasting.

867
00:29:54,370 --> 00:29:55,850
How come you don't, how come you're driving

868
00:29:55,850 --> 00:29:56,610
that car?

869
00:29:59,130 --> 00:30:01,350
But yeah, I mean, there's definitely the vibes

870
00:30:01,350 --> 00:30:03,350
of, of like when you get to know

871
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:05,290
him behind the scenes and hear like one

872
00:30:05,290 --> 00:30:07,070
of the comments he made, like when people

873
00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:09,950
first, uh, when this started all going South,

874
00:30:10,530 --> 00:30:11,870
you know, everyone was kind of afraid about

875
00:30:11,870 --> 00:30:14,170
their business, like their freelance businesses, their agencies,

876
00:30:14,370 --> 00:30:16,150
you know, how I came up in places

877
00:30:16,150 --> 00:30:16,910
like Rocket Genius.

878
00:30:17,050 --> 00:30:17,210
Yeah.

879
00:30:17,230 --> 00:30:18,630
Like we're all kind of like wondering what,

880
00:30:18,850 --> 00:30:19,430
what's going to happen.

881
00:30:19,930 --> 00:30:21,310
And he made a statement that he's post

882
00:30:21,310 --> 00:30:21,710
economic.

883
00:30:21,850 --> 00:30:23,610
So he doesn't really think of those things.

884
00:30:24,050 --> 00:30:27,850
Oh, no, that's not the statement you want

885
00:30:27,850 --> 00:30:28,130
to hear.

886
00:30:29,770 --> 00:30:32,250
Post economic, right.

887
00:30:32,610 --> 00:30:35,090
Well, why, what the current crash could be

888
00:30:35,090 --> 00:30:35,630
his fault.

889
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:38,450
Anytime you say I'm post economic, that's, that's

890
00:30:38,450 --> 00:30:39,390
your crash right there.

891
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:42,410
Because of the WordPress fracas, the Dow has

892
00:30:42,410 --> 00:30:42,830
crashed.

893
00:30:43,010 --> 00:30:43,130
Yeah.

894
00:30:43,430 --> 00:30:45,310
The S&P is down 500 by the,

895
00:30:45,410 --> 00:30:45,590
you know.

896
00:30:45,710 --> 00:30:46,090
All right.

897
00:30:46,090 --> 00:30:46,410
Okay.

898
00:30:46,410 --> 00:30:47,830
Well, that's all very unfortunate.

899
00:30:48,130 --> 00:30:50,790
I mean, that would be Dave, like if

900
00:30:50,790 --> 00:30:52,130
you and I went post economic.

901
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:54,750
I'm post podcasting.

902
00:30:54,910 --> 00:30:55,130
Yeah.

903
00:30:55,290 --> 00:30:55,850
Yeah, really.

904
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:58,350
Well, speaking of such, uh, you sent us

905
00:30:58,350 --> 00:31:00,190
a couple of links to discuss today and

906
00:31:00,190 --> 00:31:02,510
we should probably, uh, and this probably folds

907
00:31:02,510 --> 00:31:03,250
right into it.

908
00:31:03,250 --> 00:31:05,870
I want to talk about the dot CC

909
00:31:05,870 --> 00:31:07,830
site in a second, but let's start off

910
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:11,030
with, uh, your, uh, this, uh, sub stack.

911
00:31:11,130 --> 00:31:12,110
I said sub stack, I guess.

912
00:31:12,830 --> 00:31:14,130
Uh, is it a sub stack?

913
00:31:14,330 --> 00:31:14,850
No, it's WordPress.

914
00:31:15,230 --> 00:31:15,870
Oh man.

915
00:31:15,870 --> 00:31:17,270
It looks just like a sub stack.

916
00:31:17,430 --> 00:31:17,910
Congratulations.

917
00:31:18,130 --> 00:31:19,230
That's a great WordPress theme.

918
00:31:19,810 --> 00:31:22,850
Um, and from your, uh, the podcast set

919
00:31:22,850 --> 00:31:26,190
up.com ladies and gentlemen, the question is,

920
00:31:26,190 --> 00:31:31,130
is the podcast industrial complex dead?

921
00:31:33,210 --> 00:31:35,130
I figured I could get a shot back

922
00:31:35,130 --> 00:31:35,590
at it too.

923
00:31:35,690 --> 00:31:37,730
You know, since everyone asks if podcasting 2

924
00:31:37,730 --> 00:31:39,930
.0 is dead, uh, I feel like I

925
00:31:39,930 --> 00:31:41,210
could, I could have a shot back at

926
00:31:41,210 --> 00:31:45,510
that, but, uh, from Dave's blog posts last

927
00:31:45,510 --> 00:31:46,450
week, right.

928
00:31:46,450 --> 00:31:48,650
When you talked about the live item tag,

929
00:31:48,930 --> 00:31:51,630
um, and sort of like advocating for that.

930
00:31:51,670 --> 00:31:55,050
Uh, see, I've always seen in my critical

931
00:31:55,050 --> 00:31:57,810
take of Tom Webster and that other video

932
00:31:57,810 --> 00:32:00,810
and posts that I put out, I've always

933
00:32:00,810 --> 00:32:02,750
seen the open source side of what you

934
00:32:02,750 --> 00:32:04,430
guys do, just like WordPress.

935
00:32:04,610 --> 00:32:06,570
In other words, there's WordPress.

936
00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:08,650
And then there's companies like rocket genius that

937
00:32:08,650 --> 00:32:09,930
I worked for for 15 years.

938
00:32:10,030 --> 00:32:12,250
They've been making software that sits on top

939
00:32:12,250 --> 00:32:12,790
of WordPress.

940
00:32:13,690 --> 00:32:17,930
And there's a whole economy, a billion, billions,

941
00:32:18,210 --> 00:32:21,590
billions, uh, of the WordPress economy of themes,

942
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:22,970
plugins, hosting providers.

943
00:32:23,270 --> 00:32:25,350
And then you just have WordPress as that

944
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:26,730
framework, if you will.

945
00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:29,170
And that's the way that I see RSS

946
00:32:29,170 --> 00:32:31,150
with podcasting is the way I see how

947
00:32:31,150 --> 00:32:34,930
you all enhance podcasting through podcasting 2.0.

948
00:32:35,650 --> 00:32:38,870
And it's, it's never, it's, it's been unsettling

949
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:41,250
that, that like other folks don't see it

950
00:32:41,250 --> 00:32:42,810
out of our bubble, right.

951
00:32:42,810 --> 00:32:46,710
Of podcasting 2.0. So, um, in today's

952
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:48,890
video, in today's blog post, uh, what I

953
00:32:48,890 --> 00:32:50,910
did is I took to my friend AI

954
00:32:50,910 --> 00:32:55,530
and I built, uh, this app called podcast,

955
00:32:55,610 --> 00:32:59,670
power.cc. And what I've built is just

956
00:32:59,670 --> 00:33:03,630
a demonstration of the, some of the really

957
00:33:03,630 --> 00:33:06,110
cool marketable is the way that I see

958
00:33:06,110 --> 00:33:09,610
it, uh, podcasting 2.0 tags, like chapters,

959
00:33:09,810 --> 00:33:13,990
the live item tag, um, transcripts, location, the

960
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:14,690
person tag.

961
00:33:15,310 --> 00:33:18,270
And I've loaded up, you know, your podcast

962
00:33:18,270 --> 00:33:20,670
and all the other podcasts that cover podcasting

963
00:33:20,670 --> 00:33:23,190
in there in a demonstration for folks to

964
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:26,470
see how, how all of your, how, how

965
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:29,690
all of our podcasts react, uh, to these

966
00:33:29,690 --> 00:33:30,430
different chapters.

967
00:33:31,150 --> 00:33:33,430
And I've made it, I've tried to make

968
00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:36,350
it as like a utility where if somebody

969
00:33:36,350 --> 00:33:38,010
is interested in this, like they're hearing what

970
00:33:38,010 --> 00:33:39,750
we're talking about, or they're, you know, they

971
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:41,090
hear me rattling the cage all the time

972
00:33:41,090 --> 00:33:42,590
about this stuff that they can just learn

973
00:33:42,590 --> 00:33:44,170
about these tags and where to develop.

974
00:33:44,170 --> 00:33:44,650
Yes.

975
00:33:44,730 --> 00:33:45,250
I love this.

976
00:33:45,410 --> 00:33:47,890
I see the little, learn about podcasts, uh,

977
00:33:47,890 --> 00:33:50,530
colon live item podcast person.

978
00:33:50,550 --> 00:33:51,370
Oh, very cool.

979
00:33:51,470 --> 00:33:52,610
Well, this is a great idea.

980
00:33:52,690 --> 00:33:53,350
I love it.

981
00:33:53,890 --> 00:33:56,950
Um, podcast, podcast, power.com.

982
00:33:58,490 --> 00:34:01,330
Yeah, this is interesting because you have the,

983
00:34:01,430 --> 00:34:04,730
you're showing the, you're showing the thing and

984
00:34:04,730 --> 00:34:07,989
then you're linking to, you're not just, it's

985
00:34:07,989 --> 00:34:09,330
not just documentation.

986
00:34:09,330 --> 00:34:13,370
It's documentation baked into an example of the

987
00:34:13,370 --> 00:34:14,710
app as it's functioning.

988
00:34:14,889 --> 00:34:15,469
That's very cool.

989
00:34:16,030 --> 00:34:16,150
Yeah.

990
00:34:16,270 --> 00:34:18,090
And again, it's just, it's what we do

991
00:34:18,090 --> 00:34:19,050
in the WordPress world.

992
00:34:19,110 --> 00:34:20,710
Like if, like if you install a WordPress

993
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:22,650
theme, if there's no content on your WordPress

994
00:34:22,650 --> 00:34:24,210
website, it just looks like nothing.

995
00:34:24,210 --> 00:34:25,510
It's just a header and a footer in

996
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:26,210
an empty middle.

997
00:34:26,969 --> 00:34:29,570
Um, so there's the, the idea in WordPress,

998
00:34:29,710 --> 00:34:32,690
like the style book, where you have all

999
00:34:32,690 --> 00:34:35,070
of like the heading tags, the, the, how

1000
00:34:35,070 --> 00:34:36,790
everything looks like all your content, it's just

1001
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:37,370
one page.

1002
00:34:37,370 --> 00:34:38,909
So a user can go to and say,

1003
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:40,670
Oh, this is what my content is going

1004
00:34:40,670 --> 00:34:42,570
to look like when I use this theme.

1005
00:34:43,389 --> 00:34:45,230
So I was listening to what you were

1006
00:34:45,230 --> 00:34:46,949
saying and reading what you wrote about live

1007
00:34:46,949 --> 00:34:47,110
items.

1008
00:34:47,210 --> 00:34:48,090
Like, you know what, let me just throw

1009
00:34:48,090 --> 00:34:48,989
this together.

1010
00:34:49,290 --> 00:34:50,090
That's crazy.

1011
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:50,790
That's great.

1012
00:34:51,090 --> 00:34:51,830
I love that.

1013
00:34:52,570 --> 00:34:54,630
So, um, you know, and it's, it's a,

1014
00:34:54,650 --> 00:34:57,430
it's a cool little, little project, but also

1015
00:34:57,430 --> 00:34:58,990
a little sample of like what I think

1016
00:34:58,990 --> 00:35:00,210
is really cool about podcasting.

1017
00:35:00,210 --> 00:35:02,070
Like being able to see rant, like randomized

1018
00:35:02,070 --> 00:35:04,330
chapters to find like fun moments.

1019
00:35:04,850 --> 00:35:07,210
Um, not quite the one button of joy

1020
00:35:07,210 --> 00:35:09,090
that, that you all talked about with Tom,

1021
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:11,410
but it is just a way of thinking

1022
00:35:11,410 --> 00:35:14,730
about this stuff differently and visually, I guess.

1023
00:35:16,030 --> 00:35:17,610
How did you, how did you put this

1024
00:35:17,610 --> 00:35:17,970
together?

1025
00:35:18,030 --> 00:35:19,350
I mean, what exactly did you do?

1026
00:35:20,370 --> 00:35:22,410
I said, please make me an app.

1027
00:35:24,630 --> 00:35:26,270
Is that actually how I did it?

1028
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:28,390
Can I give you my liquid soap script

1029
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:30,210
and a couple of things that needs doing.

1030
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:30,910
Yeah.

1031
00:35:31,370 --> 00:35:35,250
So, um, so I, for this particular app,

1032
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:37,470
I've made a couple other apps with AI

1033
00:35:37,470 --> 00:35:39,670
and let me just take a step back.

1034
00:35:39,830 --> 00:35:43,270
I've, I'm not a developer obviously, but I

1035
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:45,950
am why I am good at, I say

1036
00:35:45,950 --> 00:35:47,390
that I feel like I'm good with like

1037
00:35:47,390 --> 00:35:50,970
the community evangelism with WordPress is because I

1038
00:35:50,970 --> 00:35:52,550
can see both sides of it as a

1039
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:53,930
user and a developer.

1040
00:35:53,970 --> 00:35:55,590
And I can kind of chat with both

1041
00:35:55,590 --> 00:35:57,890
teams in the middle, which is, you know,

1042
00:35:57,970 --> 00:35:59,830
what I was doing with Castos as well.

1043
00:35:59,830 --> 00:36:00,010
Right.

1044
00:36:00,070 --> 00:36:03,110
So, um, I use an app called replet,

1045
00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:05,150
R E P L I T.

1046
00:36:05,290 --> 00:36:05,710
Oh yes.

1047
00:36:05,710 --> 00:36:06,690
I've heard of this one.

1048
00:36:06,970 --> 00:36:08,930
People have told me that I should shut

1049
00:36:08,930 --> 00:36:09,130
up.

1050
00:36:09,230 --> 00:36:09,990
AI is great.

1051
00:36:10,050 --> 00:36:11,130
Have you seen replet?

1052
00:36:11,610 --> 00:36:12,010
Yes.

1053
00:36:12,170 --> 00:36:13,030
I have heard of this.

1054
00:36:13,210 --> 00:36:15,750
Um, I wouldn't go that far, but, uh,

1055
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:17,430
it is, it is one of the better,

1056
00:36:17,490 --> 00:36:21,030
more sane versions of coding with AI because

1057
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:23,930
everything's in-house and the infrastructure's in-house.

1058
00:36:23,950 --> 00:36:25,730
So I should say like, uh, you tell

1059
00:36:25,730 --> 00:36:26,930
it what you want for a framework.

1060
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:29,830
In this case, I'm using, uh, react and,

1061
00:36:30,810 --> 00:36:32,250
uh, it has database in-house.

1062
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:34,190
It has, you know, your edge functions in

1063
00:36:34,190 --> 00:36:35,530
-house has everything kind of like in-house

1064
00:36:35,530 --> 00:36:36,370
replet does.

1065
00:36:36,590 --> 00:36:37,850
Uh, you could think of it as like

1066
00:36:37,850 --> 00:36:39,710
the Adobe Photoshop of AI.

1067
00:36:39,930 --> 00:36:41,470
You know what, you know what I like

1068
00:36:41,470 --> 00:36:42,110
about this?

1069
00:36:42,530 --> 00:36:45,470
Um, this could, this type of, this type

1070
00:36:45,470 --> 00:36:47,930
of AI specifically that does these types of

1071
00:36:47,930 --> 00:36:50,830
things, very similar to what Manus did with

1072
00:36:50,830 --> 00:36:53,410
that web app for me, that could actually

1073
00:36:53,410 --> 00:36:56,590
revolutionize what I call universal apps.

1074
00:36:56,930 --> 00:36:57,350
Yes.

1075
00:36:57,530 --> 00:36:59,750
That could actually revolutionize it where people like,

1076
00:36:59,830 --> 00:37:01,870
well, I created a replet app, you know,

1077
00:37:01,950 --> 00:37:06,130
anything but PWA people might be interested in.

1078
00:37:06,730 --> 00:37:08,630
And, uh, it could create, it could create,

1079
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:10,490
it could create quite a storm of a

1080
00:37:10,490 --> 00:37:11,050
web apps.

1081
00:37:11,130 --> 00:37:11,650
That's interesting.

1082
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:13,210
Yeah.

1083
00:37:13,250 --> 00:37:15,770
And that's part of my, uh, my argument

1084
00:37:15,770 --> 00:37:18,930
in today's post video, uh, and demonstration is

1085
00:37:18,930 --> 00:37:24,250
the debate.

1086
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:26,510
The debate shouldn't always be, or for me

1087
00:37:26,510 --> 00:37:29,230
anyway, it's not just about like, Hey, I

1088
00:37:29,230 --> 00:37:32,590
love podcasting 2.0 because it's free, man.

1089
00:37:32,590 --> 00:37:34,970
And you guys in the closed gardens, we

1090
00:37:34,970 --> 00:37:35,670
don't, we don't want that.

1091
00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:38,510
It's also about the fact that from a

1092
00:37:38,510 --> 00:37:42,290
development standpoint, because it's open source, the, at

1093
00:37:42,290 --> 00:37:45,850
least in our timeframe timeline right now, AI

1094
00:37:45,850 --> 00:37:48,370
can quickly build with, with these open source

1095
00:37:48,370 --> 00:37:48,770
solutions.

1096
00:37:48,890 --> 00:37:49,870
And it doesn't have to be with AI,

1097
00:37:50,110 --> 00:37:51,630
obviously, if you just know how to develop,

1098
00:37:51,870 --> 00:37:53,830
then you have an advantage, but I can

1099
00:37:53,830 --> 00:37:55,930
build these things because it is open source.

1100
00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:59,110
And you know, like Tom, uh, criticizing the

1101
00:37:59,110 --> 00:38:01,130
apps, you know, again, I, I agree with

1102
00:38:01,130 --> 00:38:03,110
a lot of what he says, but with

1103
00:38:03,110 --> 00:38:04,530
something like this, it's like, you might not

1104
00:38:04,530 --> 00:38:06,410
have to wait for an app or a

1105
00:38:06,410 --> 00:38:08,850
podcast hosting company to catch up air quotes,

1106
00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:09,430
catch up.

1107
00:38:09,510 --> 00:38:12,850
You can just build the experience yourself to

1108
00:38:12,850 --> 00:38:13,450
a degree.

1109
00:38:13,830 --> 00:38:14,350
I like it.

1110
00:38:14,430 --> 00:38:14,910
I like it.

1111
00:38:14,990 --> 00:38:16,930
Well, this is thank you for doing this

1112
00:38:16,930 --> 00:38:18,390
because this is one of the things I've

1113
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:21,410
been saying for months now is we need

1114
00:38:21,410 --> 00:38:23,310
different experiences, different things.

1115
00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:24,150
This is the beauty.

1116
00:38:24,790 --> 00:38:27,890
It's not this set thing that we have

1117
00:38:27,890 --> 00:38:29,330
to create every single time.

1118
00:38:29,370 --> 00:38:31,090
And you've just proved it.

1119
00:38:31,270 --> 00:38:33,150
Uh, by the way, I have a summary

1120
00:38:33,150 --> 00:38:34,770
of your blog post from madness.

1121
00:38:35,090 --> 00:38:35,570
I am.

1122
00:38:36,210 --> 00:38:39,070
No, I'll go straight to the future vision

1123
00:38:39,070 --> 00:38:40,050
and conclusion.

1124
00:38:40,930 --> 00:38:43,950
The post concludes by suggesting that as podcasting

1125
00:38:43,950 --> 00:38:46,190
evolves, the gap between what's possible with open

1126
00:38:46,190 --> 00:38:48,630
standards and what's available on the mainstream platforms

1127
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:50,950
will likely grow rather than waiting for the

1128
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:51,890
industry to catch up.

1129
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:55,530
Podcast power dot CC demonstrates how creators and

1130
00:38:55,530 --> 00:38:58,050
developers can build the future themselves using open

1131
00:38:58,050 --> 00:39:01,890
standards, AI, and commitment to open ecosystems conclusion.

1132
00:39:02,310 --> 00:39:04,310
The blog post makes a case for embracing

1133
00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:06,750
open standards and podcasting to the practical example

1134
00:39:06,750 --> 00:39:09,570
of podcast power dot CC positions podcasting 2

1135
00:39:09,570 --> 00:39:12,510
.0 as not just a technical specification, but

1136
00:39:12,510 --> 00:39:14,730
as a philosophy that preserves the open nature

1137
00:39:14,730 --> 00:39:18,330
of podcasting while enabling innovation and enhanced experiences

1138
00:39:18,330 --> 00:39:20,070
for both creators and listeners.

1139
00:39:22,590 --> 00:39:22,830
Yeah.

1140
00:39:22,930 --> 00:39:24,310
And when you, when you zoom out on,

1141
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:26,910
on this project, um, this is, you know,

1142
00:39:26,930 --> 00:39:30,350
six or whatever, six or seven podcasts here.

1143
00:39:30,770 --> 00:39:32,830
Um, the ones that cover podcasting, but this

1144
00:39:32,830 --> 00:39:35,290
could be, you know, your, if you're like

1145
00:39:35,290 --> 00:39:38,770
a big branded audio play and you have,

1146
00:39:38,770 --> 00:39:41,930
uh, comedy shows, you have sports shows, like

1147
00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:45,770
you can build a whole different experience on

1148
00:39:45,770 --> 00:39:47,390
the web with this stuff.

1149
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:50,250
You could have your live stream with your

1150
00:39:50,250 --> 00:39:51,530
chat box right next to it.

1151
00:39:51,570 --> 00:39:54,230
And that like that competes against that live

1152
00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:58,190
stream, um, experience that Dave wrote about last

1153
00:39:58,190 --> 00:39:58,430
week.

1154
00:39:58,590 --> 00:40:01,310
So what's cool is on like, if you

1155
00:40:01,310 --> 00:40:03,310
go to some, I'm on podcast power dot

1156
00:40:03,310 --> 00:40:07,550
CC and I'm looking at, um, pod news,

1157
00:40:07,690 --> 00:40:09,550
I'll switch over to pod news weekly review.

1158
00:40:10,110 --> 00:40:13,110
And because they have links, uh, in their,

1159
00:40:13,290 --> 00:40:16,950
in their chapters out to various, you know,

1160
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:20,590
articles they've talked about or whatever, uh, they,

1161
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:23,490
these become sort of, these become clickable links

1162
00:40:23,490 --> 00:40:25,510
that you can just go to and see

1163
00:40:25,510 --> 00:40:26,070
the content.

1164
00:40:27,070 --> 00:40:28,630
These are like, like one of them is

1165
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:29,550
this on the screen right now.

1166
00:40:29,830 --> 00:40:31,850
It's a Tom Webster's article and you check

1167
00:40:31,850 --> 00:40:33,990
the chapter link and you go straight to

1168
00:40:33,990 --> 00:40:34,470
his article.

1169
00:40:34,770 --> 00:40:37,770
Like this could be such a, it becomes

1170
00:40:37,770 --> 00:40:40,670
structured, um, like another source of structured data,

1171
00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:44,770
but it's really, but it's highly, uh, relevant

1172
00:40:44,770 --> 00:40:48,830
data because it's been curated by, by actual

1173
00:40:48,830 --> 00:40:51,610
people, uh, sort of like pod roles and

1174
00:40:51,610 --> 00:40:53,490
such is pod role in here.

1175
00:40:53,590 --> 00:40:55,530
I wanted to do pod role, but I

1176
00:40:55,530 --> 00:40:58,250
think I have to look up right through

1177
00:40:58,250 --> 00:41:00,510
the GUID and I'd have to have a,

1178
00:41:00,590 --> 00:41:03,010
this is where my, my shortcomings of being

1179
00:41:03,010 --> 00:41:05,070
a developer show really, really quick.

1180
00:41:05,130 --> 00:41:06,850
I would have to look up that GUID

1181
00:41:06,850 --> 00:41:08,950
on, on the podcast database, right?

1182
00:41:08,970 --> 00:41:10,890
You don't, you don't, that, that, that's a

1183
00:41:10,890 --> 00:41:13,250
common misperception about the, uh, because it uses

1184
00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:15,650
the remote item, which can you, which, which

1185
00:41:15,650 --> 00:41:17,690
can use a feed URL as well.

1186
00:41:18,010 --> 00:41:19,830
So you'd have the feed URL, you'd have

1187
00:41:19,830 --> 00:41:22,450
the feed URL, you'd have to resolve it

1188
00:41:22,450 --> 00:41:25,050
back into a podcast somehow, but yeah, you

1189
00:41:25,050 --> 00:41:26,250
don't have to look it up by GUID,

1190
00:41:26,290 --> 00:41:27,270
you can look it up by URL.

1191
00:41:27,490 --> 00:41:29,370
So, so here's the question.

1192
00:41:31,490 --> 00:41:35,090
Um, the podcasting, what we're doing here at

1193
00:41:35,090 --> 00:41:42,250
roundpodcastindex.org, podcastindex.social colloquially known as podcasting

1194
00:41:42,250 --> 00:41:47,030
2.0. Uh, there's a significant criticism about

1195
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:47,690
the project.

1196
00:41:47,710 --> 00:41:50,410
It's not being led, there's no evangelism.

1197
00:41:50,970 --> 00:41:54,230
Since you come from a long history of,

1198
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:57,350
uh, open source, because you say open source,

1199
00:41:57,410 --> 00:41:58,330
I say open source.

1200
00:41:58,470 --> 00:42:00,030
I'm not quite sure why we're different there,

1201
00:42:00,070 --> 00:42:01,250
but I'll try open source.

1202
00:42:01,970 --> 00:42:06,930
Um, how do you think we could do

1203
00:42:06,930 --> 00:42:09,010
this in a way that is more effective

1204
00:42:09,010 --> 00:42:12,850
that leads ultimately to a success story like

1205
00:42:12,850 --> 00:42:15,170
WordPress so that Dave and I can become

1206
00:42:15,170 --> 00:42:16,370
rich and blow it up later?

1207
00:42:17,170 --> 00:42:17,610
Yeah.

1208
00:42:19,730 --> 00:42:24,850
Well, I mean, when I think of WordPress,

1209
00:42:25,290 --> 00:42:29,190
um, it's just like we're waiting for hosts

1210
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:29,610
and apps.

1211
00:42:29,610 --> 00:42:30,950
Like there's always going to be that, that

1212
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:32,150
tug of war or chicken and the egg,

1213
00:42:32,190 --> 00:42:33,630
whichever like phrase you want to use on

1214
00:42:33,630 --> 00:42:33,830
that.

1215
00:42:33,830 --> 00:42:36,450
But with WordPress, when you go to look

1216
00:42:36,450 --> 00:42:39,270
for themes, right, there's the WordPress theme directory

1217
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:42,390
and it's just, here's a browser, uh, with

1218
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:44,810
all these themes in it and you click

1219
00:42:44,810 --> 00:42:46,730
to preview, uh, and you can, you can

1220
00:42:46,730 --> 00:42:47,450
see the theme.

1221
00:42:47,810 --> 00:42:50,550
And even that is, is something that's finally

1222
00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:52,250
starting to mature where now you can do

1223
00:42:52,250 --> 00:42:54,650
it in your own WordPress website and see

1224
00:42:54,650 --> 00:42:56,730
what it looks like before you actually make

1225
00:42:56,730 --> 00:42:57,230
the change.

1226
00:42:58,190 --> 00:42:59,970
And, you know, I don't have like the

1227
00:42:59,970 --> 00:43:03,710
technical answer to that, but previewing what these

1228
00:43:03,710 --> 00:43:05,710
other experiences look like, like at the, in

1229
00:43:05,710 --> 00:43:08,590
the directory, you know, what I'll say, screenshots

1230
00:43:08,590 --> 00:43:12,290
of these apps, like the different, like, uh,

1231
00:43:12,310 --> 00:43:15,410
podcast listening apps or the podcast hosting companies,

1232
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:18,450
their interface, like there should be maybe like

1233
00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:21,850
these landing pages like WordPress has, here's the

1234
00:43:21,850 --> 00:43:22,970
theme, here's what it looks like.

1235
00:43:22,970 --> 00:43:23,890
It's just screenshots.

1236
00:43:24,590 --> 00:43:27,050
Um, and maybe that'll help people see some

1237
00:43:27,050 --> 00:43:28,290
of this stuff, you know, without having to

1238
00:43:28,290 --> 00:43:31,050
go full blown, build a, you know, a

1239
00:43:31,050 --> 00:43:32,890
demo site like this, although you could build

1240
00:43:32,890 --> 00:43:35,190
a demo site like this that showed off

1241
00:43:35,190 --> 00:43:39,070
the different, uh, the different, uh, uh, tags

1242
00:43:39,070 --> 00:43:40,290
in their different features.

1243
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:45,910
Um, you know, but there's no word, you

1244
00:43:45,910 --> 00:43:48,370
know, there's no WordPress of podcasting and I'm

1245
00:43:48,370 --> 00:43:53,530
curious why and I've got, that's a weird,

1246
00:43:53,670 --> 00:43:56,770
that's a, that's a, I can see Todd

1247
00:43:56,770 --> 00:43:58,670
Cochran squirming in his seat right now, but

1248
00:43:58,670 --> 00:44:01,170
what I mean specifically is like, I mean

1249
00:44:01,170 --> 00:44:02,590
something real specific by that.

1250
00:44:03,070 --> 00:44:05,330
Of course there's, there's things like power press

1251
00:44:05,330 --> 00:44:08,550
and, and, and, uh, castos, but what I'm

1252
00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:12,710
saying is like, there's no, it seems like

1253
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:13,070
work.

1254
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:15,430
So if you look, let's like look back

1255
00:44:15,430 --> 00:44:20,130
and say, okay, what are, if like fundamentally

1256
00:44:20,130 --> 00:44:23,790
the web is based on HTML, podcasting is

1257
00:44:23,790 --> 00:44:26,910
based on, so let me, okay, let me,

1258
00:44:27,050 --> 00:44:28,270
let me do a better job.

1259
00:44:28,570 --> 00:44:31,510
The web is based on HTML delivered by

1260
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:32,130
HTTP.

1261
00:44:32,590 --> 00:44:36,370
Podcasting is built on XML delivered by HTTP.

1262
00:44:37,170 --> 00:44:41,110
They're essentially just parallel tracks of the same,

1263
00:44:41,230 --> 00:44:45,590
the same style of distribution mechanism for content.

1264
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:52,770
But on the website, you had WordPress, which

1265
00:44:52,770 --> 00:44:57,270
sort of came along and made it super

1266
00:44:57,270 --> 00:44:59,270
easy to do sort of, to kind of

1267
00:44:59,270 --> 00:45:04,510
like, democratize owning a website and running a

1268
00:45:04,510 --> 00:45:04,970
website.

1269
00:45:05,630 --> 00:45:08,750
You, you didn't, there's been a few of

1270
00:45:08,750 --> 00:45:11,630
these types of things in podcasting.

1271
00:45:11,650 --> 00:45:13,250
I think of like, it was a podcast

1272
00:45:13,250 --> 00:45:16,930
generator that was Alberto's, uh, early software.

1273
00:45:17,250 --> 00:45:18,850
There's been a few of these things, but

1274
00:45:18,850 --> 00:45:22,350
there hasn't been like the full package where

1275
00:45:22,350 --> 00:45:24,470
you just had like, okay, if you want

1276
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:26,290
to run a WordPress site, you could find

1277
00:45:26,290 --> 00:45:28,170
a million articles on how to spin up

1278
00:45:28,170 --> 00:45:30,850
a lamp stack and be, you know, and

1279
00:45:30,850 --> 00:45:31,950
bada boom, you got a, you got a

1280
00:45:31,950 --> 00:45:32,270
website.

1281
00:45:32,530 --> 00:45:36,510
There wasn't something similar for podcasting where it's

1282
00:45:36,510 --> 00:45:39,610
like do this, this, this, and now you're

1283
00:45:39,610 --> 00:45:41,430
running all of your own stuff.

1284
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:43,290
Instead, what you have to do is go

1285
00:45:43,290 --> 00:45:46,270
and install WordPress first, then install a WordPress

1286
00:45:46,270 --> 00:45:48,630
plugin called PowerPress.

1287
00:45:48,930 --> 00:45:50,270
Then you get what you want.

1288
00:45:50,650 --> 00:45:53,110
Like, I don't, I guess isn't there one,

1289
00:45:53,250 --> 00:45:55,170
isn't there one, uh, an open source one,

1290
00:45:55,250 --> 00:45:57,690
I think the guys from France, I want

1291
00:45:57,690 --> 00:46:00,570
to say like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1292
00:46:01,370 --> 00:46:04,430
Never, never, never successfully installed it.

1293
00:46:06,450 --> 00:46:06,910
Yeah.

1294
00:46:08,210 --> 00:46:10,290
It's still basically a website though.

1295
00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:13,470
You know, you're building a website that also

1296
00:46:13,470 --> 00:46:16,730
delivers a pod, you know, podcast content.

1297
00:46:16,890 --> 00:46:17,530
I guess, okay.

1298
00:46:17,530 --> 00:46:19,470
I guess what I'm talking about more is

1299
00:46:19,470 --> 00:46:23,230
like, where is the, um, it's like internet

1300
00:46:23,230 --> 00:46:23,730
in a suitcase.

1301
00:46:23,790 --> 00:46:26,730
Where's the podcast host in a suitcase that

1302
00:46:26,730 --> 00:46:28,350
you just sort of like flip the switch

1303
00:46:28,350 --> 00:46:30,930
and I've got my own podcast host that

1304
00:46:30,930 --> 00:46:32,090
I'm running myself.

1305
00:46:32,990 --> 00:46:33,390
Yeah.

1306
00:46:33,730 --> 00:46:35,270
There's just not, it doesn't seem to be

1307
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:35,470
one.

1308
00:46:35,550 --> 00:46:36,750
And I always wondered why.

1309
00:46:37,610 --> 00:46:37,910
Bandwidth.

1310
00:46:38,230 --> 00:46:39,690
That's a historical problem.

1311
00:46:39,790 --> 00:46:41,370
The historical problem is bandwidth.

1312
00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:43,230
And it was, it was Lipson were the

1313
00:46:43,230 --> 00:46:44,570
first guys who figured that out.

1314
00:46:44,590 --> 00:46:46,330
And we all sat there scratching our heads

1315
00:46:46,330 --> 00:46:48,410
going like, how are you paying for this?

1316
00:46:49,050 --> 00:46:49,730
How are you?

1317
00:46:49,770 --> 00:46:50,870
And we, I still don't know.

1318
00:46:50,930 --> 00:46:52,950
Well, I mean, I guess they had Chinese

1319
00:46:52,950 --> 00:46:54,650
investors eventually to pay for it.

1320
00:46:55,470 --> 00:46:57,250
I know that's, that's a low blow.

1321
00:46:58,010 --> 00:47:00,970
Um, but that, that, so historically it was

1322
00:47:00,970 --> 00:47:01,570
just an issue.

1323
00:47:01,610 --> 00:47:03,710
Remember the, the daily source code, if you

1324
00:47:03,710 --> 00:47:07,650
know, the, the backstory ran on my, uh,

1325
00:47:07,970 --> 00:47:11,150
uh, was it the Mac drive?

1326
00:47:11,690 --> 00:47:11,890
Mm.

1327
00:47:13,090 --> 00:47:15,770
And, uh, and, and the Apple guy saw

1328
00:47:15,770 --> 00:47:16,450
what was happening.

1329
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:18,650
And this according to Steve Jobs, he said,

1330
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:20,670
yeah, we saw this bandwidth coming from your

1331
00:47:20,670 --> 00:47:22,210
Mac drive, but I just said, just let

1332
00:47:22,210 --> 00:47:22,630
him have it.

1333
00:47:22,650 --> 00:47:25,570
Let's see what happens according to Steve jobs.

1334
00:47:25,690 --> 00:47:27,090
So I'm going to take that for what

1335
00:47:27,090 --> 00:47:27,310
it is.

1336
00:47:27,370 --> 00:47:27,750
Dead man.

1337
00:47:27,830 --> 00:47:28,850
Tell me no, no lies.

1338
00:47:29,110 --> 00:47:29,510
Yeah.

1339
00:47:30,170 --> 00:47:32,230
I mean, the other thing too, like WordPress

1340
00:47:32,230 --> 00:47:36,050
has become a success because it, it, it

1341
00:47:36,050 --> 00:47:37,690
was able to be packaged up, right.

1342
00:47:37,770 --> 00:47:41,990
PHP, HTML, CSS, and then just distributed across

1343
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:44,510
all these major pod, uh, all these major

1344
00:47:44,510 --> 00:47:48,050
web hosts, GoDaddy, Endurance International, like, you know,

1345
00:47:48,090 --> 00:47:50,550
all these massive, uh, hosting companies.

1346
00:47:50,650 --> 00:47:51,850
And that's the moat.

1347
00:47:52,290 --> 00:47:54,730
Essentially that's the moat to WordPress is it

1348
00:47:54,730 --> 00:47:59,530
is distributed, you know, across 3000, 4000 web

1349
00:47:59,530 --> 00:48:00,870
hosting companies across the world.

1350
00:48:01,410 --> 00:48:03,610
And it has the advantage because it is,

1351
00:48:03,670 --> 00:48:04,410
it's open source.

1352
00:48:04,470 --> 00:48:05,550
So they're allowed to do that.

1353
00:48:05,550 --> 00:48:07,490
But then you have like the business side

1354
00:48:07,490 --> 00:48:09,090
of it that, that can distribute it like

1355
00:48:09,090 --> 00:48:09,350
that.

1356
00:48:09,570 --> 00:48:12,150
Um, and I guess that's probably, maybe that's

1357
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:14,590
the difference there is that you have something

1358
00:48:14,590 --> 00:48:17,210
like cast a pod, just, just came too

1359
00:48:17,210 --> 00:48:17,650
late.

1360
00:48:18,010 --> 00:48:21,190
It came too late where, whereas within word,

1361
00:48:21,330 --> 00:48:23,830
WordPress was very, very early in the web.

1362
00:48:24,210 --> 00:48:25,850
I don't know what year it was, but

1363
00:48:25,850 --> 00:48:27,670
it, it, it came very quickly.

1364
00:48:28,030 --> 00:48:30,230
And then 21 years old now, 21 years

1365
00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:30,470
old.

1366
00:48:30,490 --> 00:48:30,630
Yeah.

1367
00:48:30,670 --> 00:48:34,310
Whereas we're, whereas, uh, in podcasting you had

1368
00:48:34,310 --> 00:48:37,550
quickly, you had podcast hosting companies that took

1369
00:48:37,550 --> 00:48:40,430
that role and something like cast a pod

1370
00:48:40,430 --> 00:48:42,710
didn't come until, you know, 20 years later.

1371
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:43,430
Yeah.

1372
00:48:43,530 --> 00:48:45,910
Um, which is kind of like, well, you

1373
00:48:45,910 --> 00:48:47,330
know, it's already a thing now.

1374
00:48:47,330 --> 00:48:49,270
And then I guess what makes me sad

1375
00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:50,750
about that is what you end up with

1376
00:48:50,750 --> 00:48:53,510
is this thing like, um, like James mentioned

1377
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:55,550
the other day on, uh, I forgot.

1378
00:48:56,370 --> 00:48:57,690
Oh, I think it was in the podcast,

1379
00:48:57,890 --> 00:48:59,170
the report card stuff.

1380
00:48:59,910 --> 00:49:03,350
He said, um, uh, in his write-up

1381
00:49:03,350 --> 00:49:06,830
about the, the different directories and how they

1382
00:49:06,830 --> 00:49:10,090
were ranked, um, and show saying, showing that

1383
00:49:10,090 --> 00:49:12,450
the index was the number one, he made

1384
00:49:12,450 --> 00:49:12,850
a comment.

1385
00:49:12,930 --> 00:49:15,370
He said, this is before Apple fixed their

1386
00:49:15,370 --> 00:49:19,030
problems with podcast submission, but, but they really

1387
00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:21,650
didn't fix any problems with podcast submission because

1388
00:49:21,650 --> 00:49:23,470
you still, the only thing they changed was

1389
00:49:23,470 --> 00:49:25,890
now your, your hosting company can submit for

1390
00:49:25,890 --> 00:49:28,350
you, but you still can't submit yourself.

1391
00:49:28,990 --> 00:49:31,450
Like you can't as a, as a person,

1392
00:49:31,610 --> 00:49:34,270
just go in there and randomly stick a

1393
00:49:34,270 --> 00:49:36,970
show into Apple's directory.

1394
00:49:37,210 --> 00:49:39,930
Like it still goes through these gatekeepers of

1395
00:49:39,930 --> 00:49:42,790
the hosting companies, or you have to go

1396
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:43,830
create an Apple account.

1397
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:46,190
Like there's no, there's no open source way

1398
00:49:46,190 --> 00:49:48,130
to, to put these things into the directory.

1399
00:49:48,210 --> 00:49:50,610
And that's sort of like this unfortunate side

1400
00:49:50,610 --> 00:49:53,630
effect that we had where the way into

1401
00:49:53,630 --> 00:49:55,990
podcasting, at least before the index came around

1402
00:49:55,990 --> 00:50:00,490
the way into podcasting distribution, all gets funneled

1403
00:50:00,490 --> 00:50:03,130
through, through, you know, companies we know.

1404
00:50:03,290 --> 00:50:04,950
I mean, we love the hosting companies.

1405
00:50:05,050 --> 00:50:07,950
They're great, but it's not like in the

1406
00:50:07,950 --> 00:50:09,950
web, you don't have to ask anybody's permission,

1407
00:50:09,950 --> 00:50:12,730
you know, to get in, to get listed

1408
00:50:12,730 --> 00:50:13,230
somewhere.

1409
00:50:13,330 --> 00:50:14,790
I mean, it's just the way it just,

1410
00:50:14,850 --> 00:50:15,430
it's just open.

1411
00:50:16,170 --> 00:50:17,750
One of the things I was trying to

1412
00:50:17,750 --> 00:50:20,570
advocate for, for at Castos and also like

1413
00:50:20,570 --> 00:50:23,450
still scratching my head that it doesn't really

1414
00:50:23,450 --> 00:50:23,810
exist.

1415
00:50:23,850 --> 00:50:25,370
And maybe it's because there is no market

1416
00:50:25,370 --> 00:50:27,350
for it, but I disagree because I think

1417
00:50:27,350 --> 00:50:31,270
James just talked about, I'm going to forget

1418
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:33,370
the name of it now, the Patreon.

1419
00:50:33,770 --> 00:50:34,810
So he just met, I think it was

1420
00:50:34,810 --> 00:50:35,770
on the air today.

1421
00:50:35,870 --> 00:50:37,390
Like, I don't know how many millions of

1422
00:50:37,390 --> 00:50:41,630
dollars in, in paid subscription podcasts, Patreon just

1423
00:50:41,630 --> 00:50:42,010
announced.

1424
00:50:42,350 --> 00:50:46,250
But with like, again, looking at podcastpower.cc,

1425
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:48,970
every podcast hosting company should just have their

1426
00:50:48,970 --> 00:50:51,410
own version of Patreon built right into the

1427
00:50:51,410 --> 00:50:55,030
websites, you know, because that's the, that's eventually

1428
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:55,670
what happens.

1429
00:50:55,710 --> 00:50:56,830
This is what happened at Castos.

1430
00:50:57,450 --> 00:50:59,290
You'd have the customers go, okay, I'm all

1431
00:50:59,290 --> 00:50:59,510
set.

1432
00:50:59,590 --> 00:51:00,610
And maybe this is part of the problem.

1433
00:51:00,870 --> 00:51:01,890
Customers would go, okay, I'm all set.

1434
00:51:01,910 --> 00:51:02,790
I got my RSS feed.

1435
00:51:02,850 --> 00:51:05,190
Now let me go to 18 other places

1436
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:06,910
and get the stuff that I need.

1437
00:51:07,110 --> 00:51:11,690
The website, the Patreon, the email service, you

1438
00:51:11,690 --> 00:51:14,850
know, the, the clip maker, the recording studio.

1439
00:51:15,210 --> 00:51:18,870
And then now the podcaster has 18 different

1440
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:22,690
tools to do all this stuff with open

1441
00:51:22,690 --> 00:51:23,030
source.

1442
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:25,250
And with the podcasting 2.0 stuff and

1443
00:51:25,250 --> 00:51:28,350
RSS, you could just have a Patreon page

1444
00:51:28,350 --> 00:51:31,250
for every customer on your hosting company and

1445
00:51:31,250 --> 00:51:33,590
have them push to that URL.

1446
00:51:33,970 --> 00:51:35,550
And then they don't have to pay the

1447
00:51:35,550 --> 00:51:36,730
absorbent at Patreon fees.

1448
00:51:37,230 --> 00:51:38,610
They would just have a link out to

1449
00:51:38,610 --> 00:51:40,950
Stripe or wherever that they want to get

1450
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:41,830
their donation from.

1451
00:51:41,930 --> 00:51:43,690
And, and that's why I look at this

1452
00:51:43,690 --> 00:51:43,970
too.

1453
00:51:44,330 --> 00:51:46,230
If you look upstream, you know, to the

1454
00:51:46,230 --> 00:51:48,530
criticisms I give, you know, at the top

1455
00:51:48,530 --> 00:51:50,530
of the market with these big, you know,

1456
00:51:50,570 --> 00:51:53,770
Hollywood plays or, or, or big brand plays.

1457
00:51:54,070 --> 00:51:57,010
Um, yeah, but they're also giving a big

1458
00:51:57,010 --> 00:51:59,610
percentage to YouTube and Spotify for their ad

1459
00:51:59,610 --> 00:51:59,850
deals.

1460
00:51:59,970 --> 00:52:02,050
Why not just build an experience right on

1461
00:52:02,050 --> 00:52:03,370
a, on a landing page?

1462
00:52:03,370 --> 00:52:05,130
And then they don't have to share in

1463
00:52:05,130 --> 00:52:05,830
the revenue cut.

1464
00:52:05,970 --> 00:52:08,470
They could just sell their goods right alongside

1465
00:52:08,470 --> 00:52:09,350
their live stream.

1466
00:52:09,590 --> 00:52:11,310
Uh, isn't that what everyone wants?

1467
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:13,250
So like, I just look at it as

1468
00:52:13,250 --> 00:52:15,790
like, this stuff is, is very flexible.

1469
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:19,010
Um, and it's all right there at everybody's

1470
00:52:19,010 --> 00:52:19,650
fingertips.

1471
00:52:19,730 --> 00:52:20,810
You know, like if you look at the

1472
00:52:20,810 --> 00:52:23,130
new media show on podcast power and scroll

1473
00:52:23,130 --> 00:52:25,730
to the bottom, Todd has his, um, a

1474
00:52:25,730 --> 00:52:26,890
scroll to the, I put it below the

1475
00:52:26,890 --> 00:52:27,390
episodes.

1476
00:52:28,130 --> 00:52:31,550
Uh, Todd uses the location tag and I

1477
00:52:31,550 --> 00:52:34,770
quickly integrate with open street map and it

1478
00:52:34,770 --> 00:52:36,850
just plots out where he put his longitude

1479
00:52:36,850 --> 00:52:37,330
and latitude.

1480
00:52:37,970 --> 00:52:40,110
So, you know, you know, like if you're

1481
00:52:40,110 --> 00:52:43,190
like a city or a town and you

1482
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:45,030
have a tourism thing and it's like, Hey,

1483
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:47,630
we have this whole audio experience and it's

1484
00:52:47,630 --> 00:52:48,870
plotted out across your town.

1485
00:52:48,930 --> 00:52:51,990
Like this stuff can be built rather quickly.

1486
00:52:52,090 --> 00:52:53,930
Again, I'm using AI because I'm not a

1487
00:52:53,930 --> 00:52:56,850
developer, but it does quickly build these things

1488
00:52:56,850 --> 00:52:57,110
out.

1489
00:52:57,450 --> 00:52:59,410
Um, I mean, don't look under the hood,

1490
00:53:00,530 --> 00:53:01,310
but I think you're right.

1491
00:53:01,370 --> 00:53:01,470
Yeah.

1492
00:53:01,470 --> 00:53:02,590
I think you're right about that though.

1493
00:53:02,610 --> 00:53:05,750
Because like bus, bus sprout did it, you

1494
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:07,510
know, they put the, the bus sprout.

1495
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:09,910
Um, I forget, I keep on wanting to

1496
00:53:09,910 --> 00:53:14,230
call it buzz bucks, but I forgot the

1497
00:53:14,230 --> 00:53:14,770
name of it.

1498
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:17,250
It's like, uh, where you can like click,

1499
00:53:17,330 --> 00:53:18,690
you know, they, they put a funding link

1500
00:53:18,690 --> 00:53:20,270
in, in your feed and then they go

1501
00:53:20,270 --> 00:53:21,550
and you can pay for it right there

1502
00:53:21,550 --> 00:53:24,390
on, on like a site that's run by

1503
00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:24,790
them.

1504
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:27,170
And that makes, uh, you know, that, that

1505
00:53:27,170 --> 00:53:30,250
makes perfect sense to me that rather than

1506
00:53:30,250 --> 00:53:32,050
having, yeah, you're so right.

1507
00:53:32,050 --> 00:53:33,430
Rather than having to go to this other,

1508
00:53:33,650 --> 00:53:35,670
these other services, you know, I was watching

1509
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:38,310
this video of, uh, or watching the video

1510
00:53:38,310 --> 00:53:40,110
of Linus tech tips and how they didn't

1511
00:53:40,110 --> 00:53:41,390
make their revenue the other day.

1512
00:53:41,650 --> 00:53:43,550
And I think if I'm not mistaken, I

1513
00:53:43,550 --> 00:53:46,010
think they said that they, the rev share

1514
00:53:46,010 --> 00:53:51,130
for subscriptions, uh, gets divvied up in some

1515
00:53:51,130 --> 00:53:52,430
based on some algorithm.

1516
00:53:52,490 --> 00:53:53,370
I forgot the way it works.

1517
00:53:53,390 --> 00:53:55,750
And then they get, they get, I think

1518
00:53:55,750 --> 00:53:58,690
it's 45% or 35% of that.

1519
00:53:58,690 --> 00:53:59,930
And if they go over a certain view

1520
00:53:59,930 --> 00:54:01,430
count is 45% of that.

1521
00:54:02,390 --> 00:54:05,210
So, I mean, YouTube is, you know, they're,

1522
00:54:05,210 --> 00:54:09,370
they're keeping 70% plus of, of what,

1523
00:54:09,470 --> 00:54:10,910
you know, 60 or 70% of what

1524
00:54:10,910 --> 00:54:12,830
your, of, of that revenue share.

1525
00:54:13,070 --> 00:54:16,430
So the podcasting host running that thing directly

1526
00:54:16,430 --> 00:54:17,570
makes a ton of sense.

1527
00:54:18,810 --> 00:54:19,210
Yeah.

1528
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:21,450
So cast a pod should put that in

1529
00:54:21,450 --> 00:54:23,230
there, basically bake it in there with a,

1530
00:54:23,250 --> 00:54:24,430
with a stripe API key.

1531
00:54:25,710 --> 00:54:27,570
So I heard you on a podcast weekly

1532
00:54:27,570 --> 00:54:30,050
review, also known as power.

1533
00:54:31,050 --> 00:54:34,750
And, uh, you were talking about, uh, what

1534
00:54:34,750 --> 00:54:37,050
Tom Webster had written and then the conversation

1535
00:54:37,050 --> 00:54:40,450
we had had, and you were heartbroken over

1536
00:54:40,450 --> 00:54:41,310
something we said.

1537
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:42,870
And I, and I want to, I want

1538
00:54:42,870 --> 00:54:43,730
to explore that.

1539
00:54:43,830 --> 00:54:45,150
How did, how did we, how did we

1540
00:54:45,150 --> 00:54:48,030
show me on the podcasting 2.0 doll

1541
00:54:48,030 --> 00:54:49,110
where we touched?

1542
00:54:51,190 --> 00:54:52,930
You've got a heart out there too, I

1543
00:54:52,930 --> 00:54:54,230
want to be careful of your time.

1544
00:54:54,510 --> 00:54:55,730
Just let us know when you get it.

1545
00:54:55,830 --> 00:54:56,070
Oh yeah.

1546
00:54:56,410 --> 00:54:58,350
I still have 30, I have 30 minutes.

1547
00:54:58,510 --> 00:54:58,870
Okay, cool.

1548
00:54:58,970 --> 00:54:59,350
Okay, good.

1549
00:54:59,410 --> 00:54:59,530
Cool.

1550
00:55:00,010 --> 00:55:03,470
Um, yeah, again, I I'm just, I I'm,

1551
00:55:03,550 --> 00:55:06,770
I'm comparing my, uh, so my experience of

1552
00:55:06,770 --> 00:55:09,330
evaluating the podcast 2.0 experience, same thing

1553
00:55:09,330 --> 00:55:10,390
with, with WordPress, right?

1554
00:55:10,390 --> 00:55:11,990
Cause I've, I've heard this in the WordPress

1555
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:14,750
world so many times of, of people who

1556
00:55:14,750 --> 00:55:19,070
are literally giving, uh, tens hours, hundreds of

1557
00:55:19,070 --> 00:55:21,630
hours, thousands of hours of their lives, free

1558
00:55:21,630 --> 00:55:24,110
open source, uh, contributions to WordPress.

1559
00:55:24,110 --> 00:55:27,510
And then people come in and just bash

1560
00:55:27,510 --> 00:55:28,750
WordPress.

1561
00:55:29,570 --> 00:55:31,610
Um, but at the same time, they're making

1562
00:55:31,610 --> 00:55:34,970
money with WordPress and it blows my mind

1563
00:55:34,970 --> 00:55:37,950
that you can, you can bash the foundation

1564
00:55:37,950 --> 00:55:39,550
that is making your money.

1565
00:55:39,630 --> 00:55:41,170
And I'm not saying that Tom was, but

1566
00:55:41,170 --> 00:55:43,090
I had, that was a tipping point, right?

1567
00:55:43,130 --> 00:55:45,270
After like seeing all like is podcasting 2

1568
00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:47,330
.0 dead is value for value dead.

1569
00:55:47,330 --> 00:55:49,150
Like, and it was just like, ah, the

1570
00:55:49,150 --> 00:55:50,390
sentiment was just driving me nuts.

1571
00:55:50,450 --> 00:55:52,430
And then I finally cracked, but there was

1572
00:55:52,430 --> 00:55:53,290
the line from Tom.

1573
00:55:53,370 --> 00:55:54,570
I think he said, it's a, uh, I

1574
00:55:54,570 --> 00:55:56,210
think the, I think he said maybe leadership

1575
00:55:56,210 --> 00:55:57,990
was rudderless or something like that.

1576
00:55:58,230 --> 00:56:00,070
Um, sounds about right.

1577
00:56:00,570 --> 00:56:04,670
I heard you guys say sounds about right.

1578
00:56:04,690 --> 00:56:06,550
And I was like, no guys, no.

1579
00:56:06,890 --> 00:56:08,790
Like, cause I still look at, at you,

1580
00:56:09,350 --> 00:56:12,250
um, as, as you both, as, as the

1581
00:56:12,250 --> 00:56:13,910
leaders of, of the space.

1582
00:56:14,830 --> 00:56:17,570
And you know, I, I, then I think

1583
00:56:17,570 --> 00:56:19,690
it was a few episodes ago, Dave, you

1584
00:56:19,690 --> 00:56:21,450
were sounding pretty stressed out about a lot

1585
00:56:21,450 --> 00:56:22,910
of criticisms over the image stuff.

1586
00:56:23,030 --> 00:56:24,290
And I won't pretend to know like the

1587
00:56:24,290 --> 00:56:26,770
full conversation about that, but I, I was

1588
00:56:26,770 --> 00:56:28,510
just like, man, I, I need to stick

1589
00:56:28,510 --> 00:56:28,810
up.

1590
00:56:29,350 --> 00:56:31,110
I need to stick up for these guys,

1591
00:56:31,130 --> 00:56:33,030
uh, because I don't think anyone else is

1592
00:56:33,030 --> 00:56:33,530
going to do it.

1593
00:56:33,530 --> 00:56:36,510
So, you know, that's, that's how that moment

1594
00:56:36,510 --> 00:56:38,950
of, uh, emotion, you know, came out because

1595
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:40,670
I, I just look at all the work

1596
00:56:40,670 --> 00:56:42,310
that not only you, you two, but all

1597
00:56:42,310 --> 00:56:44,950
the other folks that are in, uh, Macedon

1598
00:56:44,950 --> 00:56:47,750
that I see, you know, chatting, um, all

1599
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:48,630
the time about this stuff.

1600
00:56:48,650 --> 00:56:50,530
And I really look at this as this

1601
00:56:50,530 --> 00:56:51,570
is hard work people are doing.

1602
00:56:51,690 --> 00:56:53,850
And it's, it shouldn't just be brushed over

1603
00:56:53,850 --> 00:56:55,530
because I see it get brushed over and

1604
00:56:55,530 --> 00:56:56,990
on the WordPress side all the time.

1605
00:56:57,710 --> 00:57:01,450
And, uh, you know, this is, it's important

1606
00:57:01,450 --> 00:57:01,990
stuff, man.

1607
00:57:02,770 --> 00:57:04,290
Like you can't just let this stuff go

1608
00:57:04,290 --> 00:57:04,550
away.

1609
00:57:04,830 --> 00:57:06,550
So let's look at the analog here.

1610
00:57:07,270 --> 00:57:10,190
Um, now the difference between the WordPress space

1611
00:57:10,190 --> 00:57:13,750
and the podcast space is, uh, there's very

1612
00:57:13,750 --> 00:57:15,710
few podcasts app developers.

1613
00:57:16,170 --> 00:57:19,610
Um, um, that's historically been that way because

1614
00:57:19,610 --> 00:57:22,170
of the feed generation and what Apple would

1615
00:57:22,170 --> 00:57:23,010
accept, et cetera.

1616
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:29,430
Um, but in both cases, it really kind

1617
00:57:29,430 --> 00:57:31,890
of went wrong the minute it got commercialized

1618
00:57:31,890 --> 00:57:35,590
because the, so, you know, there's, there's big

1619
00:57:35,590 --> 00:57:38,450
WordPress conferences and it's, uh, and it's, it's

1620
00:57:38,450 --> 00:57:39,550
paid for by someone.

1621
00:57:39,570 --> 00:57:41,050
And the money's coming from somewhere.

1622
00:57:41,150 --> 00:57:43,210
We don't really have all of that.

1623
00:57:43,410 --> 00:57:45,510
We, I mean, our funding comes in small,

1624
00:57:45,770 --> 00:57:48,750
very welcome donations and monthly we get some

1625
00:57:48,750 --> 00:57:50,230
nice big ones from some of the hosting

1626
00:57:50,230 --> 00:57:50,850
companies.

1627
00:57:51,370 --> 00:57:54,470
Uh, but the podcast, uh, movement, if you

1628
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:57,390
will, the podcast industrial complex, they don't give

1629
00:57:57,390 --> 00:57:58,050
a crap.

1630
00:57:58,450 --> 00:57:58,710
Sorry.

1631
00:57:58,990 --> 00:57:59,870
Sorry, Jesus.

1632
00:58:00,090 --> 00:58:01,110
They don't give a crap.

1633
00:58:01,250 --> 00:58:05,530
They just, they just don't care about what

1634
00:58:05,530 --> 00:58:07,210
we're, you know, they care by saying it's

1635
00:58:07,210 --> 00:58:07,750
no good.

1636
00:58:07,870 --> 00:58:08,950
This is rudderless.

1637
00:58:08,990 --> 00:58:09,810
There's no leadership.

1638
00:58:10,050 --> 00:58:11,050
There's no evangelism.

1639
00:58:11,210 --> 00:58:13,130
And my favorite is Adam should do a

1640
00:58:13,130 --> 00:58:13,410
keynote.

1641
00:58:13,570 --> 00:58:14,030
Yeah, sure.

1642
00:58:14,330 --> 00:58:14,550
Sure.

1643
00:58:14,630 --> 00:58:14,790
Sure.

1644
00:58:14,870 --> 00:58:16,410
They don't invite me for that.

1645
00:58:17,050 --> 00:58:17,650
You know?

1646
00:58:17,710 --> 00:58:20,890
So it's like, it seems like when someone

1647
00:58:20,890 --> 00:58:26,750
commercializes open source, see, I'm learning, um, that's

1648
00:58:26,750 --> 00:58:29,050
when it, that's when it goes wrong.

1649
00:58:29,230 --> 00:58:31,950
That's when it kind of, it goes askew

1650
00:58:31,950 --> 00:58:34,350
and you, you bifurcate and it just doesn't

1651
00:58:34,350 --> 00:58:34,750
work.

1652
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:35,670
Yeah.

1653
00:58:36,050 --> 00:58:38,710
Uh, you know, I, I believe I'm not

1654
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:40,190
trying to pick a fight, but, and I

1655
00:58:40,190 --> 00:58:43,030
totally believe in what Tom and Brian, uh,

1656
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:43,750
and team are doing.

1657
00:58:43,790 --> 00:58:44,570
It sounds profitable.

1658
00:58:44,590 --> 00:58:48,030
Like there has, there has to be, I

1659
00:58:48,030 --> 00:58:50,390
guess, folks in that space talking to that

1660
00:58:50,390 --> 00:58:53,070
demographic of, of podcasters and audio people.

1661
00:58:53,890 --> 00:58:56,470
And it makes total sense.

1662
00:58:57,130 --> 00:58:59,970
Um, you know, but I, I just don't

1663
00:58:59,970 --> 00:59:02,990
want to, uh, I just don't want that,

1664
00:59:03,070 --> 00:59:04,870
this podcasting 2.0 stuff to be passed

1665
00:59:04,870 --> 00:59:05,050
over.

1666
00:59:05,130 --> 00:59:07,790
He, we had an exchange once, uh, online

1667
00:59:07,790 --> 00:59:09,850
and I was like, I was like, well,

1668
00:59:09,850 --> 00:59:11,530
we have to, we have to support podcasting

1669
00:59:11,530 --> 00:59:13,530
2.0 more in, in the media, in

1670
00:59:13,530 --> 00:59:14,090
the news, right?

1671
00:59:14,110 --> 00:59:15,310
Aside from just pod news.

1672
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:17,030
And he has asked like, well, how would

1673
00:59:17,030 --> 00:59:17,450
I do that?

1674
00:59:17,490 --> 00:59:18,470
It's just like, well, you would have to

1675
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:19,210
cover it more.

1676
00:59:19,830 --> 00:59:21,610
Like you'd have to write about it more,

1677
00:59:22,210 --> 00:59:22,370
you know?

1678
00:59:22,710 --> 00:59:24,070
And, you know, that's interesting.

1679
00:59:24,310 --> 00:59:26,690
In five years, I've never been interviewed about

1680
00:59:26,690 --> 00:59:27,430
this project.

1681
00:59:27,570 --> 00:59:30,230
Well, you listen when you, I mean, outside

1682
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:34,770
of pod news, um, you know, and the,

1683
00:59:34,770 --> 00:59:38,050
uh, new media show, nothing.

1684
00:59:38,710 --> 00:59:40,810
I was, I was listening to, to the,

1685
00:59:40,850 --> 00:59:42,910
the conversation with Tom and I literally threw

1686
00:59:42,910 --> 00:59:45,430
my hands up when, when you were like,

1687
00:59:45,470 --> 00:59:46,750
Hey, so what does Sounds Profitable do?

1688
00:59:46,830 --> 00:59:47,950
And you're like, Hey, and he said, we're

1689
00:59:47,950 --> 00:59:51,570
trying to build a, um, uh, I forget

1690
00:59:51,570 --> 00:59:53,190
what it was called a vendor membership or

1691
00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:53,830
something like that.

1692
00:59:54,030 --> 00:59:55,730
And you were like, where's my email?

1693
00:59:56,610 --> 00:59:57,930
And like, he was just like, well, I

1694
00:59:57,930 --> 00:59:59,450
guess I never sent you one or trade

1695
00:59:59,450 --> 01:00:00,190
a trade, right?

1696
01:00:00,190 --> 01:00:01,650
Like a trade organization of podcasts.

1697
01:00:01,690 --> 01:00:03,150
And you said, where's, why didn't I ever

1698
01:00:03,150 --> 01:00:03,650
get an email?

1699
01:00:03,650 --> 01:00:06,330
And I was like, yes, that's, that's my

1700
01:00:06,330 --> 01:00:09,690
point is that you have to include the

1701
01:00:09,690 --> 01:00:13,150
podcasting 2.0 guys and the app makers

1702
01:00:13,150 --> 01:00:14,830
and the hosting providers that are doing this

1703
01:00:14,830 --> 01:00:15,230
stuff too.

1704
01:00:15,230 --> 01:00:17,310
It can't just be about that full on

1705
01:00:17,310 --> 01:00:18,130
commercial side.

1706
01:00:18,730 --> 01:00:20,410
That goes back to, that goes back to

1707
01:00:20,410 --> 01:00:22,830
the very, to the very first thing that

1708
01:00:22,830 --> 01:00:24,510
I brought up or, you know, earlier in

1709
01:00:24,510 --> 01:00:28,430
the discussion is that there is a uneasy

1710
01:00:28,430 --> 01:00:32,630
tension between open source and the podcast and

1711
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:34,110
the commercial side of podcasting.

1712
01:00:34,190 --> 01:00:37,630
They don't, they don't really, they don't get

1713
01:00:37,630 --> 01:00:38,150
along.

1714
01:00:39,250 --> 01:00:42,330
And I think it's more than just, uh,

1715
01:00:42,850 --> 01:00:47,510
well, open sources is sort of antithetical to

1716
01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:51,830
the needs of commercialized media.

1717
01:00:52,410 --> 01:00:54,790
Um, cause you, you have to be able

1718
01:00:54,790 --> 01:00:58,510
to proprietize the stack in order to keep

1719
01:00:58,510 --> 01:01:00,070
it away from other people.

1720
01:01:00,070 --> 01:01:02,510
Yes, you're, you're correct.

1721
01:01:02,730 --> 01:01:04,810
And, but let's go straight to the end

1722
01:01:04,810 --> 01:01:05,230
here.

1723
01:01:05,530 --> 01:01:07,530
The kind, it's always about the content.

1724
01:01:07,610 --> 01:01:10,850
People are drawn to content and the content

1725
01:01:10,850 --> 01:01:12,290
is what's being monetized.

1726
01:01:12,330 --> 01:01:13,930
They got pipes, they got pipes everywhere.

1727
01:01:14,030 --> 01:01:17,090
That hence the video, video, YouTube, Tik TOK,

1728
01:01:17,170 --> 01:01:20,630
Instagram, it's the content, what matters and they're

1729
01:01:20,630 --> 01:01:21,730
monetizing the content.

1730
01:01:21,830 --> 01:01:23,990
They're not monetizing podcasting.

1731
01:01:25,510 --> 01:01:27,330
That's, that's the issue right there.

1732
01:01:27,330 --> 01:01:30,310
And well, won't make any, many difference if

1733
01:01:30,310 --> 01:01:31,950
it's have some chapters, that's not going to

1734
01:01:31,950 --> 01:01:33,490
make the monetization any easier.

1735
01:01:33,670 --> 01:01:35,690
We need downloads and we need measurement and

1736
01:01:35,690 --> 01:01:40,090
which is why true measurement is not desired

1737
01:01:40,090 --> 01:01:43,830
by the podcast industrial complex because, and Tom

1738
01:01:43,830 --> 01:01:45,390
Webster kind of danced around it a little

1739
01:01:45,390 --> 01:01:48,090
bit, but I don't think anyone really wants

1740
01:01:48,090 --> 01:01:49,490
to know what the real numbers are.

1741
01:01:51,700 --> 01:01:54,060
And you can tell me a million times

1742
01:01:54,060 --> 01:01:56,420
that it's pretty accurate, but I don't believe

1743
01:01:56,420 --> 01:01:56,560
it.

1744
01:01:56,660 --> 01:01:57,580
I just don't believe it.

1745
01:01:58,020 --> 01:02:00,020
I've told, I've, you know, I've alluded to

1746
01:02:00,020 --> 01:02:03,160
this before, but you know, some, somebody, uh,

1747
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:06,800
gave me an example one time, uh, somebody

1748
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,380
at a hosting company gave me an example

1749
01:02:08,380 --> 01:02:13,340
one time of, of a podcast that used

1750
01:02:13,340 --> 01:02:17,240
one of these, uh, services that will put

1751
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:22,300
your podcast in a, um, into like banner

1752
01:02:22,300 --> 01:02:24,100
ads that are in mobile games.

1753
01:02:24,540 --> 01:02:24,800
Oh yeah.

1754
01:02:25,260 --> 01:02:28,500
And then you, uh, click the banner ad

1755
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:30,940
and what, what you have, what you have

1756
01:02:30,940 --> 01:02:34,480
to, you get rewarded in game for, uh,

1757
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:37,440
for subscribing in Apple podcast is the long

1758
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:38,040
and short of it.

1759
01:02:38,180 --> 01:02:39,900
So what you do is you, it, it,

1760
01:02:39,900 --> 01:02:42,460
it artificially, because of the way that the,

1761
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,620
the Apple download, uh, Apple app download algorithm

1762
01:02:45,620 --> 01:02:49,960
works, it artificially inflates your download numbers by

1763
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:53,180
a certain amount, you know, in a short,

1764
01:02:53,420 --> 01:02:55,000
in a short term, on the short term.

1765
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:56,380
And so what you have to do is

1766
01:02:56,380 --> 01:02:57,580
you have to keep, you have to keep

1767
01:02:57,580 --> 01:03:00,500
re upping with this service because if you

1768
01:03:00,500 --> 01:03:03,460
don't, you're, you're, you're, you'll fall out of

1769
01:03:03,460 --> 01:03:06,040
the ad rotation and your numbers will come

1770
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:06,500
back down.

1771
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:10,640
So you keep resubscribing to this, uh, artificial

1772
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,700
subscription, uh, artificial boosting service to get your,

1773
01:03:14,700 --> 01:03:17,680
your podcast subscription and download numbers up.

1774
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:22,060
And then that flows through to the, to,

1775
01:03:22,300 --> 01:03:23,960
you know, to your host, to your hosting

1776
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:25,620
company and your numbers look big.

1777
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,940
Well, then you go as the rep, you

1778
01:03:28,940 --> 01:03:31,380
know, as the producer of the podcast, you

1779
01:03:31,380 --> 01:03:35,100
go and show the company that's, you know,

1780
01:03:35,180 --> 01:03:37,520
this, this, uh, whose name is on the

1781
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:37,800
podcast.

1782
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:39,360
You go and show them, look at how

1783
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:40,640
big our download numbers are.

1784
01:03:41,060 --> 01:03:43,320
Well, these download numbers are not real, but

1785
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,920
nobody in the chain actually cares.

1786
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:48,260
I think the funniest, the funniest thing is

1787
01:03:48,260 --> 01:03:49,920
that I don't know if he's provided a

1788
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:51,900
recent update, but James says that, you know,

1789
01:03:51,980 --> 01:03:54,720
pod news is being download spanned by some,

1790
01:03:54,780 --> 01:03:56,360
some bot somewhere at Google.

1791
01:03:56,500 --> 01:03:59,440
He's got 40,000 downloads per day on

1792
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:00,600
the pod news daily.

1793
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:02,400
And no one cares.

1794
01:04:02,780 --> 01:04:04,220
No, no one cares.

1795
01:04:04,900 --> 01:04:08,140
I mean, it's obvious that something scammy is

1796
01:04:08,140 --> 01:04:10,300
going on or there's something that has been

1797
01:04:10,300 --> 01:04:12,220
activated and no one even cares to turn

1798
01:04:12,220 --> 01:04:12,720
it off.

1799
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:14,160
It's unbelievable.

1800
01:04:14,620 --> 01:04:17,400
The one, the producer who signs up for

1801
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:21,540
a service like that, they are happy because

1802
01:04:21,540 --> 01:04:24,720
they get to show big numbers and the

1803
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:26,640
brand that the, that whose name is on

1804
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:28,760
the podcast, they're happy because they see big

1805
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:29,060
numbers.

1806
01:04:29,140 --> 01:04:31,200
It's a win-win and the numbers are

1807
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:32,840
all fake and everybody's happy.

1808
01:04:33,140 --> 01:04:35,940
It's like, nobody cares that they're not real.

1809
01:04:36,260 --> 01:04:37,000
They don't, you know?

1810
01:04:38,220 --> 01:04:41,480
And yeah, I think there's a, this is

1811
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:41,980
what I think.

1812
01:04:42,060 --> 01:04:43,940
This is why I think that's that layer

1813
01:04:43,940 --> 01:04:46,280
that sounds profitable is trying, trying to protect

1814
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:49,440
is, you know, the money side of audio

1815
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:50,940
and making sure that that doesn't go away.

1816
01:04:51,020 --> 01:04:53,020
And what I mean by that is, cause

1817
01:04:53,020 --> 01:04:55,640
I've, when I was at Castos, you'd always

1818
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:57,880
have the folks that I'm starting a podcast

1819
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:58,840
so I can be like Rogan.

1820
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:00,820
And this is all at the height of

1821
01:05:00,820 --> 01:05:01,840
like post COVID.

1822
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:03,420
So like everyone was trying to do this

1823
01:05:03,420 --> 01:05:06,220
thing and it's like, it's not, it shouldn't

1824
01:05:06,220 --> 01:05:07,700
just be about your number count.

1825
01:05:07,980 --> 01:05:10,300
Like if there's a hundred people listening, 10

1826
01:05:10,300 --> 01:05:13,120
people listening, if, if you're making an impact

1827
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,240
and they're in and they're interacting with you

1828
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:16,520
and they're talking with you and they're recommending

1829
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:17,880
it, what more do you want?

1830
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:20,300
So, so it's, I feel like we, I

1831
01:05:20,300 --> 01:05:21,460
hate to say it, but I feel like

1832
01:05:21,460 --> 01:05:24,320
it needs a reset in expectation for audio.

1833
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:26,620
Like does it need to have, does it

1834
01:05:26,620 --> 01:05:28,900
need to compete with video?

1835
01:05:28,980 --> 01:05:31,240
It's a totally different thing in my opinion.

1836
01:05:31,460 --> 01:05:33,980
And you should actually want a more engaged

1837
01:05:33,980 --> 01:05:36,340
audience with lower numbers because at least, you

1838
01:05:36,340 --> 01:05:38,900
know, they're listening and talking back to you.

1839
01:05:39,180 --> 01:05:39,280
Yeah.

1840
01:05:39,380 --> 01:05:42,140
Well, I think the, the podcast industrial complex

1841
01:05:42,140 --> 01:05:43,440
is its own worst enemy.

1842
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:45,720
They're the ones, they're the ones that keep

1843
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:47,160
asking if video is right.

1844
01:05:47,260 --> 01:05:48,840
They're the ones that keep talking about, they're

1845
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:50,320
the ones that do forums about it.

1846
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,280
And what they're really doing is they're just

1847
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:55,780
making, changing perception, changing everything.

1848
01:05:56,380 --> 01:05:58,860
But that's why I love what Dave and

1849
01:05:58,860 --> 01:06:00,680
I are doing with the Godcaster because it's,

1850
01:06:00,700 --> 01:06:01,660
it's a whole different audience.

1851
01:06:01,860 --> 01:06:03,440
It's not about podcasting.

1852
01:06:03,500 --> 01:06:06,820
It's about getting content, managing content, having it

1853
01:06:06,820 --> 01:06:07,820
in a certain place.

1854
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:13,960
And it's, it's, it's about the content and

1855
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,500
how it's organized and how people consume it.

1856
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,700
And there's no real issue about what apps

1857
01:06:20,700 --> 01:06:22,740
we're, we're, we're giving you all the features

1858
01:06:22,740 --> 01:06:24,940
and we actually basically just do it on

1859
01:06:24,940 --> 01:06:27,740
a, on a, with a webpage, a drop

1860
01:06:27,740 --> 01:06:31,840
-in and, you know, which, which also some,

1861
01:06:31,980 --> 01:06:34,620
some customers are using in their, in their

1862
01:06:34,620 --> 01:06:35,680
web-based apps.

1863
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:37,260
I mean, it's, it's a native app, but

1864
01:06:37,260 --> 01:06:39,400
they have a web view in there and,

1865
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:41,060
and everyone thinks it's fantastic.

1866
01:06:41,340 --> 01:06:42,140
They don't care.

1867
01:06:42,300 --> 01:06:44,680
They, they love the whole, the whole system,

1868
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:45,360
the whole setup.

1869
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,480
They love the audio shows they want, and

1870
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,360
it's a relatively small group.

1871
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,020
You know, it's a, it's a, it's a,

1872
01:06:53,020 --> 01:06:57,440
a, a subset of all podcasting, but it,

1873
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:02,260
it's, you know, it's, it's, it's successful.

1874
01:07:02,700 --> 01:07:04,400
These things are all successful.

1875
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:06,660
Small, small things are successful.

1876
01:07:07,220 --> 01:07:09,520
I mean, when I sat on Rogan Hyperlocal

1877
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,680
Podcasting, it was like a, like I turned

1878
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:14,760
on a huge light bulb and everybody went,

1879
01:07:15,420 --> 01:07:15,520
what?

1880
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:17,640
I don't have to be Rogan.

1881
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:19,640
I can just do a podcast for my,

1882
01:07:19,660 --> 01:07:22,140
for my town, for my community, for my,

1883
01:07:22,300 --> 01:07:24,300
for my club, for my church.

1884
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:24,760
What?

1885
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:29,400
That has, that has left people's minds because

1886
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:32,360
of all you hear about is big numbers,

1887
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:34,960
number one charts, et cetera, which is fine.

1888
01:07:35,180 --> 01:07:39,000
But the internet has always, has always been

1889
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:42,620
comprised of small, successful projects and groups everywhere.

1890
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:46,480
So even our own conversation shouldn't be it.

1891
01:07:46,620 --> 01:07:49,440
I'm not interested in, in every podcast app

1892
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:49,860
doing it.

1893
01:07:49,900 --> 01:07:51,820
I'm just, maybe I used to be, but

1894
01:07:51,820 --> 01:07:52,740
I've seen the light.

1895
01:07:52,980 --> 01:07:54,680
I don't, it's not necessary.

1896
01:07:54,940 --> 01:07:59,260
It's just not necessary to be successful with

1897
01:07:59,260 --> 01:08:01,060
whatever project you set out to do.

1898
01:08:01,300 --> 01:08:05,920
This podcast power.cc is an excellent example

1899
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:06,300
of that.

1900
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,200
If this was the only way you could

1901
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,060
get my podcast or the only, the only

1902
01:08:10,060 --> 01:08:11,560
thing I promoted, people would go to this

1903
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:12,040
website.

1904
01:08:12,340 --> 01:08:12,780
Right.

1905
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:14,020
And they use that.

1906
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:15,319
They really would.

1907
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,380
The, the hyperlocal thing is also much more

1908
01:08:18,380 --> 01:08:18,800
fulfilling.

1909
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,520
Like personally, I ran a local podcast too.

1910
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:23,800
And people, you walk into the restaurant and

1911
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:25,340
people are like, Hey, I listened to your

1912
01:08:25,340 --> 01:08:25,740
podcast.

1913
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:27,920
I don't get that on my WordPress podcast

1914
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,920
because nobody around me is like following WordPress

1915
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:31,920
like, like I do.

1916
01:08:33,060 --> 01:08:35,939
And this is another point I wanted to

1917
01:08:35,939 --> 01:08:38,140
make about like value for value in the

1918
01:08:38,140 --> 01:08:38,760
local market.

1919
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:42,140
It's actually easier to sell on value.

1920
01:08:42,580 --> 01:08:43,060
Absolutely.

1921
01:08:43,620 --> 01:08:45,740
Even if you only have a hundred downloads,

1922
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:47,620
you could get a monthly sponsor for a

1923
01:08:47,620 --> 01:08:50,620
thousand dollars who just wants to be a

1924
01:08:50,620 --> 01:08:51,319
part of this thing.

1925
01:08:51,500 --> 01:08:52,979
And that is very real.

1926
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,560
Um, and often, you know, overlooked.

1927
01:08:56,340 --> 01:08:56,819
Yeah.

1928
01:08:56,899 --> 01:08:58,540
I've always thought I've thought for a long

1929
01:08:58,540 --> 01:09:00,740
time that it would be just a local

1930
01:09:00,740 --> 01:09:04,180
podcast that only interviewed local businesses and had

1931
01:09:04,180 --> 01:09:06,200
got the owners to tell their stories about

1932
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,260
how they got into the business, how they

1933
01:09:08,260 --> 01:09:09,979
started the business, all this kind of stuff,

1934
01:09:10,500 --> 01:09:12,660
things like that, where you just go around

1935
01:09:12,660 --> 01:09:15,140
and interview local people and have a super,

1936
01:09:15,319 --> 01:09:17,560
like you could easily get sponsored for that

1937
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:20,359
and have a lucrative side gig, if not

1938
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:22,680
a full-time gig for sure.

1939
01:09:22,779 --> 01:09:25,060
And it's all, it's all just reducing scope

1940
01:09:25,060 --> 01:09:27,800
down, down to the, to the local level.

1941
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:29,580
And I, and that's kind of been the

1942
01:09:29,580 --> 01:09:31,880
ethos of, like you said, Adam, the ethos

1943
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:32,979
of the web for a long time.

1944
01:09:33,260 --> 01:09:35,779
I remember the first blog I ever had.

1945
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:38,279
Um, it was so specific.

1946
01:09:38,279 --> 01:09:41,220
It was about, uh, different types of tobacco

1947
01:09:41,220 --> 01:09:42,520
because I used to smoke a pipe.

1948
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:47,640
I don't remember you smoking a pipe.

1949
01:09:48,180 --> 01:09:49,720
This is before we met.

1950
01:09:49,819 --> 01:09:49,960
Yeah.

1951
01:09:50,020 --> 01:09:51,800
This was before we met.

1952
01:09:52,100 --> 01:09:52,540
Yeah.

1953
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:54,380
Uh, and so like I had, I did

1954
01:09:54,380 --> 01:09:56,340
this big write up on this one specific

1955
01:09:56,340 --> 01:09:58,140
type of, it's called twist tobacco.

1956
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:01,340
It's this old, uh, really old, like they

1957
01:10:01,340 --> 01:10:03,560
would take their tobacco and twist it up

1958
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:04,920
into these things that look like ropes.

1959
01:10:05,100 --> 01:10:06,540
And then you just, you know, like take

1960
01:10:06,540 --> 01:10:08,240
a, take a plug off of it or

1961
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:08,420
whatever.

1962
01:10:08,700 --> 01:10:11,280
And it would preserve it on long trips.

1963
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,140
And then I had this guy email me

1964
01:10:14,140 --> 01:10:16,400
and say, Hey, uh, can I, you know,

1965
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:18,000
I'm a, like a research student and I'm

1966
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,580
doing my, some kind of thing on a

1967
01:10:20,580 --> 01:10:22,180
research project on tobacco.

1968
01:10:22,180 --> 01:10:24,100
Can I use your post and all this

1969
01:10:24,100 --> 01:10:24,220
stuff?

1970
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:25,260
And I was like, Oh sweet.

1971
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:25,580
Yeah.

1972
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,020
It was, it was this sort of like

1973
01:10:28,020 --> 01:10:30,300
the more niche you get, the more narrow

1974
01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:32,260
your focus is, or the more local your

1975
01:10:32,260 --> 01:10:34,860
focus is, you get much more engagement.

1976
01:10:35,100 --> 01:10:37,220
And then you do, if you try to

1977
01:10:37,220 --> 01:10:39,880
just replicate whatever the big thing is.

1978
01:10:40,060 --> 01:10:40,460
Yeah.

1979
01:10:40,460 --> 01:10:41,740
I think it's, I think it's always that

1980
01:10:41,740 --> 01:10:42,060
way.

1981
01:10:42,500 --> 01:10:42,900
Yeah.

1982
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:46,060
There's one other thing I just wanted to

1983
01:10:46,060 --> 01:10:48,200
add about the, about the WordPress stuff and,

1984
01:10:48,260 --> 01:10:50,500
and podcast index and being successful with all

1985
01:10:50,500 --> 01:10:50,920
this thing.

1986
01:10:50,980 --> 01:10:53,500
There's, well, it's kind of been shuttered now

1987
01:10:53,500 --> 01:10:55,700
because of everything that Matt did, but there,

1988
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,900
he did start this, um, I don't know

1989
01:10:58,900 --> 01:10:59,420
what you would call it.

1990
01:10:59,440 --> 01:11:00,440
Cause mantra.

1991
01:11:00,580 --> 01:11:02,260
It was called five for the future.

1992
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:05,260
And basically his thing was, yeah.

1993
01:11:05,340 --> 01:11:08,040
If you can invest him largely talking to

1994
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:10,740
like other WordPress, like web development agencies and

1995
01:11:10,740 --> 01:11:13,220
freelancers, if you can develop, if you can

1996
01:11:13,220 --> 01:11:17,420
invest 5% of your time monthly to

1997
01:11:17,420 --> 01:11:20,460
WordPress, it was sort of like a, you

1998
01:11:20,460 --> 01:11:21,940
know, rising tide lifts all boats kind of

1999
01:11:21,940 --> 01:11:22,140
thing.

2000
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:24,240
And that was, that could be anything that

2001
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,680
could be logging into wordpress.org and answering

2002
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:27,460
forum tickets.

2003
01:11:28,020 --> 01:11:29,520
It could be writing documentation.

2004
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,260
Um, it could be obviously contributing code to

2005
01:11:32,260 --> 01:11:35,240
WordPress, uh, solving bugs on, on GitHub, uh,

2006
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:35,740
or issues.

2007
01:11:36,460 --> 01:11:37,980
Uh, and it was just this thing, like

2008
01:11:37,980 --> 01:11:39,220
if you just gave 5% of your

2009
01:11:39,220 --> 01:11:40,820
time, how much better could WordPress be?

2010
01:11:41,340 --> 01:11:43,940
Um, not saying that that's the exact thing

2011
01:11:43,940 --> 01:11:46,200
that we would replicate in the podcasting space,

2012
01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:48,340
but, uh, you know, it could be something

2013
01:11:48,340 --> 01:11:50,260
to chew on of how other folks who

2014
01:11:50,260 --> 01:11:53,160
might feel like myself, like I couldn't help

2015
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:55,780
you write code, Dave, but like, can I

2016
01:11:55,780 --> 01:11:57,060
do some marketing things like this?

2017
01:11:57,140 --> 01:11:57,300
Yeah.

2018
01:11:57,700 --> 01:11:59,160
Uh, can I write blog posts to support

2019
01:11:59,160 --> 01:11:59,260
it?

2020
01:11:59,300 --> 01:11:59,440
Yeah.

2021
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:01,580
But maybe there's folks that can kind of

2022
01:12:01,580 --> 01:12:02,600
contribute in different ways.

2023
01:12:02,660 --> 01:12:03,760
They, they haven't thought of yet.

2024
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:06,000
Yeah.

2025
01:12:06,020 --> 01:12:06,880
That's a great idea.

2026
01:12:07,300 --> 01:12:08,280
That's a really good idea.

2027
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:11,400
Some sort of like, because you can't, everything

2028
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:14,460
that you, everything that I feel it, I

2029
01:12:14,460 --> 01:12:15,260
feel it constantly.

2030
01:12:15,500 --> 01:12:15,800
Everything.

2031
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:18,580
When I, when I spend three hours in

2032
01:12:18,580 --> 01:12:21,200
a week writing a blog post, that's three

2033
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,480
hours of something else I had to not

2034
01:12:23,480 --> 01:12:23,820
do.

2035
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:24,480
Right.

2036
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:27,220
And you know, and it's, and sometimes it's,

2037
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:28,140
it's welcome.

2038
01:12:28,300 --> 01:12:32,040
Sometimes a respite from, you know, from the

2039
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:34,920
thing that you're, that you are constantly doing

2040
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:36,380
is what you need.

2041
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:38,940
But a lot of times it really is

2042
01:12:38,940 --> 01:12:40,000
a distraction.

2043
01:12:40,180 --> 01:12:42,120
And I think a lot of the, I

2044
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,160
think a lot of the, um, the hardship

2045
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:48,780
of open source comes from when you log

2046
01:12:48,780 --> 01:12:52,560
into get hub and you see 300 unclosed

2047
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:56,540
issues, you know, and you're just like 299

2048
01:12:56,540 --> 01:12:57,840
created by Adam.

2049
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,440
You just, your head drops and you're just

2050
01:13:01,440 --> 01:13:02,980
like, Oh, I give up, you know?

2051
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:05,400
And then, and then, you know, 10 of

2052
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:08,140
them are critical and all, you know, hypercritical

2053
01:13:08,140 --> 01:13:09,320
of what it's of something.

2054
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:11,840
And it's just like you, a lot of

2055
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:15,260
open source boils down to that just sort

2056
01:13:15,260 --> 01:13:16,620
of like people getting exhausted.

2057
01:13:17,380 --> 01:13:19,540
Um, and yeah, no, I, I, I think

2058
01:13:19,540 --> 01:13:20,880
that's a good idea for sure.

2059
01:13:24,140 --> 01:13:26,480
I love a moment of silence.

2060
01:13:27,740 --> 01:13:28,860
I really do.

2061
01:13:30,140 --> 01:13:32,400
Well, first of all, I'd love, uh, whenever

2062
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:34,780
you write one of these, uh, blog posts

2063
01:13:34,780 --> 01:13:38,060
or anything, please, uh, please ping me, uh,

2064
01:13:38,060 --> 01:13:39,820
Matt, because I'll, uh, I'll send it out

2065
01:13:39,820 --> 01:13:42,400
to my incredibly vast network of followers.

2066
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:45,540
Uh, how am I doing our followers by

2067
01:13:45,540 --> 01:13:45,840
the way?

2068
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:47,060
I'm some reason I'm stuck.

2069
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:50,440
I'm, I'm for always stuck at 98,000.

2070
01:13:50,480 --> 01:13:51,840
I can't seem to get over it.

2071
01:13:52,420 --> 01:13:53,420
Let me see.

2072
01:13:53,480 --> 01:13:55,060
You tell me that on, on Twitter.

2073
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:55,460
Yeah.

2074
01:13:55,620 --> 01:13:58,100
99.3. It never goes over.

2075
01:13:58,300 --> 01:13:59,620
I don't know why it goes up.

2076
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:01,020
It just never hits a hundred K for

2077
01:14:01,020 --> 01:14:01,560
some reason.

2078
01:14:02,660 --> 01:14:05,100
Um, because I mean, this is, this is

2079
01:14:05,100 --> 01:14:07,500
the, this really the best I can do.

2080
01:14:07,860 --> 01:14:10,120
Um, talking about it here is, is a

2081
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:13,680
good thing, but also let's just keep doing

2082
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:14,340
what we're doing.

2083
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:17,760
I mean, I, it's like Stephen B and,

2084
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:20,500
uh, and, uh, and all those guys that

2085
01:14:20,500 --> 01:14:23,580
are doing a whole bunch of, um, uh,

2086
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:24,580
uh, what is it?

2087
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:28,940
Uh, Nostra integration and there's still a thriving

2088
01:14:28,940 --> 01:14:31,600
2.0 value for value music community.

2089
01:14:31,700 --> 01:14:33,220
And it's all good.

2090
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:36,380
You know, it's all, it's all little pieces

2091
01:14:36,380 --> 01:14:38,900
and bits and bobs and everyone's using the,

2092
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,740
uh, what's available for their own, uh, for

2093
01:14:41,740 --> 01:14:43,440
their own, for the love of their own

2094
01:14:43,440 --> 01:14:44,080
projects.

2095
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:45,900
And, and I, and that to me is

2096
01:14:45,900 --> 01:14:46,240
success.

2097
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,900
And if something catches and goes viral and

2098
01:14:49,900 --> 01:14:51,920
people start using it, that'd be great.

2099
01:14:52,060 --> 01:14:54,140
You can't make it happen.

2100
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:57,520
You know, it's like, uh, back in the

2101
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:59,960
think new ideas days, we have Reebok and

2102
01:14:59,960 --> 01:15:01,380
say, Hey, uh, okay.

2103
01:15:01,380 --> 01:15:04,040
So your agency, our digital agency, uh, we

2104
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:05,200
want a viral video.

2105
01:15:05,480 --> 01:15:06,200
Oh, okay.

2106
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:07,180
I'll hop right on that.

2107
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:09,020
I'll make that happen right away.

2108
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:11,460
You know, you, you can't do that.

2109
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:13,500
If something catches, it's great.

2110
01:15:13,780 --> 01:15:16,120
And until then just use what you want

2111
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:17,280
to use for what you want to use

2112
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:17,440
it.

2113
01:15:17,660 --> 01:15:18,920
And it's perfectly valid.

2114
01:15:19,100 --> 01:15:21,420
No, you know, it, it just, it's not

2115
01:15:21,420 --> 01:15:23,280
one homogenized big thing.

2116
01:15:24,500 --> 01:15:27,380
Well, uh, John Spurlock posted earlier on the,

2117
01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:30,160
um, uh, on the mastodon, he's like, uh,

2118
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:31,660
you know, at the end of the day,

2119
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:33,800
podcasting is just people doing stuff they like

2120
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:34,140
to do.

2121
01:15:34,260 --> 01:15:35,360
Yeah, exactly.

2122
01:15:35,540 --> 01:15:38,220
That's pretty, that's pretty much sums it up.

2123
01:15:38,260 --> 01:15:38,440
Yeah.

2124
01:15:38,540 --> 01:15:39,500
It's exactly right.

2125
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:41,160
And, and it's, it's fantastic.

2126
01:15:41,420 --> 01:15:42,620
You know, it's like, that's open source.

2127
01:15:42,820 --> 01:15:43,760
That's not just podcasting.

2128
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:45,100
That's open source is what that is.

2129
01:15:45,260 --> 01:15:45,620
Absolutely.

2130
01:15:46,100 --> 01:15:46,460
Absolutely.

2131
01:15:47,140 --> 01:15:49,680
So maybe I'm just going to ignore these

2132
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:50,960
conversations from now on.

2133
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:53,680
How about that?

2134
01:15:53,740 --> 01:15:55,300
I'm just not going to participate in it.

2135
01:15:55,460 --> 01:15:56,380
It's not important.

2136
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:58,140
If people want to do video, do video.

2137
01:15:58,260 --> 01:15:58,800
That's great.

2138
01:15:59,480 --> 01:16:00,540
You know, if you think that's great, you

2139
01:16:00,540 --> 01:16:02,580
know, but so we had a, for God

2140
01:16:02,580 --> 01:16:05,120
cast, we had a, a request because the

2141
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:07,460
old version of our, of the product before

2142
01:16:07,460 --> 01:16:10,040
Dave and I came in, uh, had some

2143
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:11,940
YouTube scraper functionality.

2144
01:16:11,940 --> 01:16:14,980
So people could add YouTube videos into their

2145
01:16:14,980 --> 01:16:16,040
God caster player.

2146
01:16:16,540 --> 01:16:18,080
And we don't have that anymore.

2147
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:19,680
It's, it's not podcasting.

2148
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:22,380
And so, you know, you get a, you

2149
01:16:22,380 --> 01:16:23,920
get someone saying, oh, I really missed that

2150
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:24,320
feature.

2151
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:25,660
And I had to think about, I had

2152
01:16:25,660 --> 01:16:27,180
to walk around the block for a second.

2153
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:29,620
I was like, we really shouldn't do that.

2154
01:16:29,980 --> 01:16:32,220
It's like, no, I mean, if, if, if

2155
01:16:32,220 --> 01:16:34,860
it's in the, in the index, if it's

2156
01:16:34,860 --> 01:16:36,300
an RSS feed, if it's not, then you

2157
01:16:36,300 --> 01:16:37,480
will get it into the index.

2158
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:39,600
They have a feed, a feed of the

2159
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:40,000
channel.

2160
01:16:40,100 --> 01:16:41,700
That's, you know, it's not even an RSS.

2161
01:16:41,900 --> 01:16:43,080
I'm not even sure what it is, some

2162
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:44,460
XML thing.

2163
01:16:44,540 --> 01:16:46,040
Although the index does eat them.

2164
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:48,200
I noticed it does.

2165
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:48,420
Yeah.

2166
01:16:48,440 --> 01:16:50,180
But you, but you don't get anything out

2167
01:16:50,180 --> 01:16:50,440
of it.

2168
01:16:50,440 --> 01:16:52,360
You get nothing out of it, but it

2169
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:53,320
does, it does eat it.

2170
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:54,900
So I immediately marked it dead.

2171
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:58,140
I'm like, no, if you want YouTube videos

2172
01:16:58,140 --> 01:17:00,920
on your, on your site, get an embedded

2173
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:02,120
YouTube video.

2174
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:04,020
The index eats everything.

2175
01:17:04,220 --> 01:17:05,940
It's like Mikey from the, from the Kix

2176
01:17:05,940 --> 01:17:08,260
commercials or whatever it's, or is it Kix?

2177
01:17:08,460 --> 01:17:09,120
What was that cereal?

2178
01:17:10,180 --> 01:17:11,300
Life, life cereal.

2179
01:17:11,660 --> 01:17:12,060
Life cereal.

2180
01:17:12,300 --> 01:17:12,400
Yeah.

2181
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:13,060
Mikey, yeah.

2182
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:13,980
The index ate anything.

2183
01:17:14,100 --> 01:17:15,160
Now, what you get out of the other

2184
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:17,220
end is not exactly, you know, great always.

2185
01:17:21,470 --> 01:17:23,690
Well, anyway, so that's, that's kind of, that's

2186
01:17:23,690 --> 01:17:24,930
kind of where, where I'm at, where I'm

2187
01:17:24,930 --> 01:17:25,270
thinking.

2188
01:17:25,370 --> 01:17:28,370
I, I've listened with great interest to, you

2189
01:17:28,370 --> 01:17:30,530
know, the reports coming in from, from podcast

2190
01:17:30,530 --> 01:17:33,590
movement evolutions, but I'm like, yeah, you know,

2191
01:17:33,750 --> 01:17:35,350
y'all are running after dollars.

2192
01:17:35,510 --> 01:17:37,770
And meanwhile, I'm having a lot of fun.

2193
01:17:37,930 --> 01:17:39,370
I, I, I like all the things that

2194
01:17:39,370 --> 01:17:41,710
we're doing with, with the capabilities that we've

2195
01:17:41,710 --> 01:17:43,270
built and we all do it for different

2196
01:17:43,270 --> 01:17:43,710
reasons.

2197
01:17:44,310 --> 01:17:46,390
And you know, it's, it's good.

2198
01:17:46,910 --> 01:17:49,930
You can, you know, Apple app, when Apple

2199
01:17:49,930 --> 01:17:53,570
integrated podcasting at the beginning, I mean, how

2200
01:17:53,570 --> 01:17:55,530
many years of not making any money?

2201
01:17:57,850 --> 01:18:00,270
What podcasting for them was never a moneymaker.

2202
01:18:00,490 --> 01:18:01,870
No, it still isn't.

2203
01:18:02,410 --> 01:18:05,190
It was, it wasn't even really a feature

2204
01:18:05,190 --> 01:18:08,490
that was, that was being demanded.

2205
01:18:08,610 --> 01:18:11,650
I mean, no, they, they really just, to

2206
01:18:11,650 --> 01:18:13,450
this day, I'm not sure exactly why they

2207
01:18:13,450 --> 01:18:13,850
did it.

2208
01:18:13,910 --> 01:18:14,850
I don't know.

2209
01:18:15,590 --> 01:18:19,470
And you know, at best with subscriptions, it

2210
01:18:19,470 --> 01:18:20,610
might be break even.

2211
01:18:20,750 --> 01:18:21,690
And I still doubt that.

2212
01:18:21,890 --> 01:18:23,250
Oh no, no, no.

2213
01:18:23,610 --> 01:18:25,350
I mean, how many people do they have

2214
01:18:25,350 --> 01:18:25,830
on staff?

2215
01:18:25,970 --> 01:18:27,550
They've, they've got a, they must have at

2216
01:18:27,550 --> 01:18:30,070
least 10 people, maybe 15.

2217
01:18:30,070 --> 01:18:30,450
Yeah.

2218
01:18:30,610 --> 01:18:32,610
And they probably don't even meet payroll, you

2219
01:18:32,610 --> 01:18:34,750
know, on that, on that division.

2220
01:18:34,950 --> 01:18:36,890
No, I, I really don't see that as

2221
01:18:36,890 --> 01:18:38,910
a, as being a moneymaker for them other

2222
01:18:38,910 --> 01:18:41,710
than people use their iPhones for it.

2223
01:18:41,730 --> 01:18:43,110
And at the time, I think it was

2224
01:18:43,110 --> 01:18:44,910
to make sure that no one else used

2225
01:18:44,910 --> 01:18:46,930
it a different air and an MP3 player.

2226
01:18:47,050 --> 01:18:49,610
If, if anything, that's why jobs, oh, let's

2227
01:18:49,610 --> 01:18:50,910
keep this, you know, we can't have people

2228
01:18:50,910 --> 01:18:51,810
using iRiver.

2229
01:18:53,230 --> 01:18:53,670
iRiver.

2230
01:18:53,890 --> 01:18:54,070
Yeah.

2231
01:18:54,710 --> 01:18:55,890
That's not going to work.

2232
01:18:58,020 --> 01:19:00,140
I just want to mention one last thing

2233
01:19:00,140 --> 01:19:02,700
about what Adam just says, like people are

2234
01:19:02,700 --> 01:19:04,660
doing this thing because, you know, we love

2235
01:19:04,660 --> 01:19:05,480
it and we just want to make our

2236
01:19:05,480 --> 01:19:05,840
stuff.

2237
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:09,520
Adam was interviewed by my colleague for a

2238
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:11,660
podcast that we're doing called Our Beloved Medium.

2239
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,980
And it's a series that highlights all the

2240
01:19:15,980 --> 01:19:19,360
most important milestones, well, not all, but most

2241
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:21,680
of them, all the most milestones of radio

2242
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:22,640
throughout human history.

2243
01:19:23,060 --> 01:19:25,420
Episode one opens up talking about World War

2244
01:19:25,420 --> 01:19:29,360
II, but there's, it's wrapped in a fictional

2245
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:32,680
fight for radio.

2246
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:34,880
And there's one radio station left on earth.

2247
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:37,200
It's trying to get acquired by this big

2248
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:37,940
streaming company.

2249
01:19:38,260 --> 01:19:40,480
And what this radio station is doing is

2250
01:19:40,480 --> 01:19:41,800
broadcasting these stories.

2251
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:44,160
So again, we open up with World War

2252
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:44,400
II.

2253
01:19:44,700 --> 01:19:49,600
Adam's episode is about MTV and the rise

2254
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:50,820
of MTV and stuff like that.

2255
01:19:51,100 --> 01:19:53,100
But if we were turning this into a

2256
01:19:53,100 --> 01:19:54,500
video, it would have to be a film

2257
01:19:54,500 --> 01:19:57,880
with actors and cameras.

2258
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:00,560
We wouldn't be able to create this thing

2259
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:02,660
we really want to create if it weren't

2260
01:20:02,660 --> 01:20:03,180
for audio.

2261
01:20:04,020 --> 01:20:05,960
And, you know, we have voice actors and

2262
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:07,140
we're trying to set a world and a

2263
01:20:07,140 --> 01:20:09,380
stage and all this stuff, but we could

2264
01:20:09,380 --> 01:20:11,020
never do it if it was a video.

2265
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,280
So where's that at?

2266
01:20:13,420 --> 01:20:13,940
Where's this?

2267
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:18,080
That's ourbelovedmedium.com.

2268
01:20:18,100 --> 01:20:19,860
And it's being released as a podcast?

2269
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:20,820
Yes.

2270
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:22,980
We've got episode one out and we're just

2271
01:20:22,980 --> 01:20:23,600
raising funding.

2272
01:20:23,820 --> 01:20:26,120
Shout out to the RSS guys because they

2273
01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:27,120
sponsored our first.

2274
01:20:27,260 --> 01:20:28,360
RSS.com?

2275
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:28,540
Yeah.

2276
01:20:29,540 --> 01:20:30,480
Oh, yeah.

2277
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:31,500
Small league productions.

2278
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:31,920
Is that?

2279
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:33,040
Yeah, that's Stewart.

2280
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:33,660
Yeah.

2281
01:20:33,820 --> 01:20:34,220
Oh yeah.

2282
01:20:34,300 --> 01:20:34,500
Cool.

2283
01:20:34,700 --> 01:20:34,920
Okay.

2284
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:37,280
So it starts off with BBC World Service.

2285
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:38,080
Oh, wait.

2286
01:20:38,220 --> 01:20:38,540
Hold on.

2287
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:39,120
Hold on.

2288
01:20:43,140 --> 01:20:44,520
This is London calling.

2289
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:46,340
You're listening to a news bulletin read in

2290
01:20:46,340 --> 01:20:48,240
the overseas service of the BBC.

2291
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:52,380
Yeah, baby.

2292
01:20:52,820 --> 01:20:54,060
It was preordained.

2293
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:55,060
Yes, it was.

2294
01:20:55,180 --> 01:20:55,620
It was.

2295
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:57,440
You know, I'll just say one other thing.

2296
01:20:57,480 --> 01:20:58,680
Look at what we're doing right now.

2297
01:20:58,740 --> 01:20:59,800
I mean, this is this.

2298
01:20:59,940 --> 01:21:01,840
Yes, it's a podcast, but this is a

2299
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:02,860
this is a board meeting.

2300
01:21:03,020 --> 01:21:07,120
We have fifty one people in a chat,

2301
01:21:07,220 --> 01:21:10,320
which is not integrated into any podcast app

2302
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,720
or curiocaster to a degree.

2303
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:16,540
It is kind of integrated into podcastpower.cc,

2304
01:21:16,740 --> 01:21:17,660
but it's irrelevant.

2305
01:21:18,300 --> 01:21:19,900
You know, there's a couple thousand people listen

2306
01:21:19,900 --> 01:21:21,140
to this podcast at best.

2307
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:22,380
I don't even know how many people listen

2308
01:21:22,380 --> 01:21:24,620
to it, but it's it's functional.

2309
01:21:24,620 --> 01:21:25,360
It's great.

2310
01:21:25,660 --> 01:21:27,080
And Dave and I are happy.

2311
01:21:27,300 --> 01:21:28,600
We love doing it still.

2312
01:21:28,820 --> 01:21:30,480
Dave takes a chunk out of his day

2313
01:21:30,480 --> 01:21:32,200
has to go home in that in that

2314
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:32,900
old jalopy.

2315
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:34,220
You know, it's like it's dangerous.

2316
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:35,440
There's no radio.

2317
01:21:36,220 --> 01:21:37,820
It's like the Beverly Hills, Billy's.

2318
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:39,700
He's got grandma on the roof coming home.

2319
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:40,800
Hey, granny.

2320
01:21:42,260 --> 01:21:43,580
Yeah, Texas tea.

2321
01:21:44,180 --> 01:21:47,000
So it's that that if anything, that is

2322
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:49,400
the most important takeaway from this conversation for

2323
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:53,660
me is we're building fantastic functionality that anybody

2324
01:21:53,660 --> 01:21:55,960
can use however you want to use it.

2325
01:21:56,100 --> 01:21:58,560
And if and if it's if we believe

2326
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,280
that this is somehow going to be the

2327
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:03,560
next big thing that Apple's going to integrate.

2328
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:05,440
No, it's not going to happen.

2329
01:22:05,940 --> 01:22:08,140
And I don't think we ever really intended

2330
01:22:08,140 --> 01:22:08,560
it to be.

2331
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:10,040
We didn't even intend for the index to

2332
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:10,900
be number one.

2333
01:22:11,740 --> 01:22:13,920
It was a pure accident.

2334
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:17,520
You know, so so it's like, cool your

2335
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:18,340
jets, everybody.

2336
01:22:18,420 --> 01:22:18,880
It's good.

2337
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:20,880
You know, we're doing cool stuff.

2338
01:22:20,980 --> 01:22:22,260
We use it for different things.

2339
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:24,660
And I would have to say the same

2340
01:22:24,660 --> 01:22:25,860
about the Nostra folks.

2341
01:22:26,460 --> 01:22:28,500
You know, it's a limited audience and they're

2342
01:22:28,500 --> 01:22:29,360
happy with it.

2343
01:22:29,460 --> 01:22:32,480
Now, they still run around saying, you know,

2344
01:22:32,500 --> 01:22:33,960
this is the future of social media.

2345
01:22:34,080 --> 01:22:34,840
I don't think so.

2346
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:37,080
You know, that's OK.

2347
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:37,520
Yeah.

2348
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:38,180
And that's OK.

2349
01:22:38,300 --> 01:22:38,740
Exactly.

2350
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:40,980
One day, something may catch you.

2351
01:22:41,020 --> 01:22:43,100
I don't care that Mastodon is one percent

2352
01:22:43,100 --> 01:22:46,080
of all social social media systems.

2353
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:47,200
Who cares?

2354
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:50,740
Podcast index on social is super good.

2355
01:22:51,100 --> 01:22:53,320
It's the first thing I check every day.

2356
01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:57,560
You OK?

2357
01:22:57,680 --> 01:22:57,800
Yeah.

2358
01:22:58,380 --> 01:22:58,660
Yes.

2359
01:22:58,820 --> 01:22:59,020
Yeah.

2360
01:22:59,060 --> 01:22:59,340
Almost.

2361
01:22:59,540 --> 01:23:00,440
All right.

2362
01:23:01,340 --> 01:23:04,280
And and here's proof that it works.

2363
01:23:04,460 --> 01:23:06,380
This little open source project.

2364
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:08,240
We have people who support us.

2365
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:10,220
They support us in a multitude of fashions

2366
01:23:10,220 --> 01:23:13,640
with our value for value system, which I

2367
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:15,280
also check every single day just to make

2368
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:16,760
sure my start nine is still working, to

2369
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:17,520
be honest about it.

2370
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:19,260
Like I got this.

2371
01:23:19,420 --> 01:23:20,140
I got Chad's.

2372
01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:22,340
I got the IPF podcasting email.

2373
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:24,260
I'm going to have to reboot this.

2374
01:23:24,420 --> 01:23:25,040
What did you get?

2375
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,380
The IPFS podcasting email.

2376
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:28,140
Oh, you.

2377
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:29,240
Oh, you got the email.

2378
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:29,800
Oh, no.

2379
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:30,500
Reboot.

2380
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:30,760
Yeah.

2381
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:31,840
Yeah.

2382
01:23:32,480 --> 01:23:34,200
No, my my umbrella is dead.

2383
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:35,320
I gave up on it.

2384
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:36,240
I don't care.

2385
01:23:37,160 --> 01:23:38,500
I'm done with that thing.

2386
01:23:38,740 --> 01:23:40,640
You know, it's too flaky for me anyway.

2387
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:42,900
I also got a thank you from podcasting

2388
01:23:42,900 --> 01:23:45,640
2.0 for hosting by IPFS podcasting three

2389
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:45,980
sets.

2390
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:46,400
All right.

2391
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:46,900
That's cool.

2392
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:47,840
I love that.

2393
01:23:48,860 --> 01:23:51,860
But people did send in some legit boost

2394
01:23:51,860 --> 01:23:52,460
for us.

2395
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:56,340
Let's take a blueberry who sent us seventeen

2396
01:23:56,340 --> 01:23:58,420
thousand seven hundred and seventy six sets.

2397
01:23:58,480 --> 01:23:59,000
Thank you, blueberry.

2398
01:23:59,580 --> 01:24:01,560
And he says bits plus plus them bubbles

2399
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:02,140
plus plus.

2400
01:24:03,340 --> 01:24:03,820
Cool.

2401
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:05,460
Twelve seventeen.

2402
01:24:06,060 --> 01:24:07,860
Twelve seventeen from Salty Crayon.

2403
01:24:08,300 --> 01:24:10,700
V4V still works for podcasting 2.0. 2

2404
01:24:10,700 --> 01:24:12,280
.0. Everyone else says it's dead.

2405
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:12,900
Quit.

2406
01:24:13,140 --> 01:24:14,580
Went over to the YouTube to be a

2407
01:24:14,580 --> 01:24:14,840
show.

2408
01:24:15,060 --> 01:24:16,900
Good luck to bronies in the pipe.

2409
01:24:17,580 --> 01:24:17,900
Exactly.

2410
01:24:18,300 --> 01:24:19,760
To be a show.

2411
01:24:19,980 --> 01:24:20,880
To be a show.

2412
01:24:21,380 --> 01:24:22,960
I grew up and became a show.

2413
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:23,880
Became a show.

2414
01:24:24,740 --> 01:24:27,020
This thing live on Fountain for the first

2415
01:24:27,020 --> 01:24:29,700
time says Douma.

2416
01:24:29,980 --> 01:24:30,460
Douma.

2417
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:31,060
Douma.

2418
01:24:31,160 --> 01:24:33,080
I think we need to defragment to Douma.

2419
01:24:35,620 --> 01:24:38,600
How do I change playback speed to two

2420
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:39,220
point five?

2421
01:24:39,380 --> 01:24:40,980
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

2422
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:41,680
I don't think you can.

2423
01:24:41,860 --> 01:24:42,800
I don't think you can do that.

2424
01:24:42,900 --> 01:24:44,380
You can't do that on a live show.

2425
01:24:46,580 --> 01:24:51,300
There's Martin Lindeskog with 1982, presumably his birth

2426
01:24:51,300 --> 01:24:53,560
year, sending you a super comment of 1982.

2427
01:24:53,780 --> 01:24:54,880
Oh, London's age.

2428
01:24:55,060 --> 01:24:55,800
London's age.

2429
01:24:55,900 --> 01:24:57,500
Forty three C.E. Satoshi's.

2430
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:00,360
I would like to attend Sam Unconference.

2431
01:25:01,020 --> 01:25:04,340
And then he has some kin to conference

2432
01:25:04,340 --> 01:25:06,800
in Swedish is potluck in English.

2433
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:09,700
OK, and the podcast show between May twenty

2434
01:25:09,700 --> 01:25:10,360
twenty two.

2435
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:12,800
Adam, do you have any suggestions on how

2436
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:15,160
to find affordable hotels or other accommodations?

2437
01:25:16,480 --> 01:25:17,000
Yes.

2438
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:18,840
Gives it gives it gives you tips, Adam.

2439
01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:20,020
I have no tip.

2440
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:21,340
I have not been traveling.

2441
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:23,320
I've not been to London in a while.

2442
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:25,120
Travel tips.

2443
01:25:26,020 --> 01:25:26,900
Ask Sam.

2444
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:28,880
I'm sure he'll help you out.

2445
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:31,080
Triple seven from Salty Crayon.

2446
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:33,460
He says the bat signal received.

2447
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:34,040
Good.

2448
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:34,880
Thank you very much.

2449
01:25:35,440 --> 01:25:36,960
And I've hit the delimiter.

2450
01:25:37,300 --> 01:25:38,580
Low boostage today.

2451
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:39,860
Very low boostage, people.

2452
01:25:40,220 --> 01:25:40,820
Where's your boost?

2453
01:25:41,380 --> 01:25:44,120
We got we did get a this is

2454
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:47,400
discombobulated because I didn't have time to organize

2455
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:48,640
before I left the office.

2456
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:51,440
But we did get a one off.

2457
01:25:51,540 --> 01:25:54,920
We got one hundred dollars from Languatalk Incorporated.

2458
01:25:55,300 --> 01:25:56,580
Languatalk Incorporated.

2459
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:03,320
What does Languatalk do?

2460
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:06,300
Says I just want to thank you for

2461
01:26:06,300 --> 01:26:06,980
a great API.

2462
01:26:07,260 --> 01:26:08,640
We just donated one hundred dollars to your

2463
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:08,940
project.

2464
01:26:09,100 --> 01:26:10,740
It allowed it allowed us to add a

2465
01:26:10,740 --> 01:26:13,920
podcast player for language learners with interactive transcripts

2466
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:14,380
and more.

2467
01:26:14,900 --> 01:26:16,720
See, this is exactly what I'm saying.

2468
01:26:17,180 --> 01:26:17,540
Boom.

2469
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:18,360
Languatalk.

2470
01:26:18,500 --> 01:26:20,720
Learn language with five star tutors.

2471
01:26:20,860 --> 01:26:21,520
Oh, that's awesome.

2472
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:24,020
Now, see, I hear that.

2473
01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:25,180
That bring that.

2474
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:27,100
That'll make me happy throughout the whole weekend.

2475
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:28,200
Straight up.

2476
01:26:28,540 --> 01:26:29,360
Yeah, it really does.

2477
01:26:29,460 --> 01:26:31,340
Not a podcast app, but they needed podcasts.

2478
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:33,200
That's why we built this thing.

2479
01:26:33,300 --> 01:26:33,640
Perfect.

2480
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:34,200
Beautiful.

2481
01:26:34,420 --> 01:26:34,680
Love it.

2482
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:34,980
Love it.

2483
01:26:35,020 --> 01:26:35,480
Love it.

2484
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:37,160
Let's see.

2485
01:26:37,220 --> 01:26:37,900
We got.

2486
01:26:38,460 --> 01:26:39,280
Oh, yeah.

2487
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:40,440
So let me go back to or I'm

2488
01:26:40,440 --> 01:26:41,680
just going to do the monthlies in here

2489
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:42,960
to Chad Farrow.

2490
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:44,580
Twenty dollars and twenty two cents.

2491
01:26:44,660 --> 01:26:45,180
Thank you, Chad.

2492
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:46,800
Cameron Rose.

2493
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:47,640
Twenty five dollars.

2494
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:48,300
Thank you, Cameron.

2495
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:49,500
Kevin Bay.

2496
01:26:49,620 --> 01:26:50,360
Five dollars.

2497
01:26:51,380 --> 01:26:52,640
Brendan over a page.

2498
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:53,460
Twenty five dollars.

2499
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:54,020
Thank you, Brendan.

2500
01:26:54,620 --> 01:26:55,420
New Media.

2501
01:26:55,700 --> 01:26:56,600
That is Martin Lindescope.

2502
01:26:56,700 --> 01:26:57,220
One dollar.

2503
01:26:57,440 --> 01:26:58,060
Mark Graham.

2504
01:26:58,220 --> 01:26:58,680
One dollar.

2505
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:00,020
Joseph Maraca.

2506
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:00,740
Five dollars.

2507
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:02,320
Oscar Mary.

2508
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:04,300
Two hundred dollars.

2509
01:27:04,540 --> 01:27:05,020
Whoa.

2510
01:27:05,580 --> 01:27:06,300
Thank you.

2511
01:27:07,260 --> 01:27:09,760
Twenty inch blaze on the Impala.

2512
01:27:10,180 --> 01:27:10,780
Love it, brother.

2513
01:27:10,900 --> 01:27:11,360
Thank you.

2514
01:27:11,460 --> 01:27:13,200
That'll keep the machines humming for a day

2515
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:14,360
or two.

2516
01:27:14,480 --> 01:27:16,760
And Oscar May talked over email the other

2517
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:16,920
day.

2518
01:27:16,940 --> 01:27:18,380
He said they've got some cool stuff coming

2519
01:27:18,380 --> 01:27:19,080
for Fountain.

2520
01:27:19,860 --> 01:27:20,300
Yes.

2521
01:27:20,820 --> 01:27:21,800
The new release.

2522
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:23,560
We've got some booster grams.

2523
01:27:24,220 --> 01:27:26,600
McIntosh says I would love to see twenty

2524
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:28,080
one, twenty one through Fountain.

2525
01:27:28,180 --> 01:27:29,720
He says I would love to listen in

2526
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:31,200
on that liquid soap session.

2527
01:27:31,780 --> 01:27:33,400
Any chance it could be recorded and made

2528
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:33,780
available?

2529
01:27:33,780 --> 01:27:34,580
Go podcasting.

2530
01:27:35,980 --> 01:27:39,900
You should record yourself talking to a eye

2531
01:27:39,900 --> 01:27:42,840
on liquids about liquid soap as a podcast

2532
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:43,620
and release it.

2533
01:27:44,140 --> 01:27:46,500
That is a really horrible idea.

2534
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:47,220
It is.

2535
01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:50,100
I don't think we want to do that.

2536
01:27:50,740 --> 01:27:52,580
I regretted it before I finished that sentence.

2537
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:54,700
Bruce, the ugly quacking duck.

2538
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:55,100
Twenty two.

2539
01:27:55,140 --> 01:27:58,560
Twenty two through podcast guru need artwork showing

2540
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:00,800
Dave with big shoulders holding off a shoe

2541
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:02,000
sole with the name.

2542
01:28:02,220 --> 01:28:03,040
Blame it on Dave.

2543
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:04,840
Seventy threes.

2544
01:28:05,020 --> 01:28:06,180
That's seventy threes.

2545
01:28:07,540 --> 01:28:10,060
Cole McCormick, Satchel Richard one one one one.

2546
01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:13,540
Wait, did you read this one as a

2547
01:28:13,540 --> 01:28:13,920
podcaster?

2548
01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:15,760
Live streaming my podcast has been a game

2549
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:16,120
changer.

2550
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:18,900
Really happy pod home has the lit tag.

2551
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:20,900
It's very simple to set up.

2552
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:23,620
I've recently been their video creator for tutorials

2553
01:28:23,620 --> 01:28:25,480
and have a couple of videos to walk

2554
01:28:25,480 --> 01:28:26,740
you through how to set up your broadcast

2555
01:28:26,740 --> 01:28:28,860
tool and a link and link it up

2556
01:28:28,860 --> 01:28:29,760
with Podhome server.

2557
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:32,280
Go to any of Podhome socials or the

2558
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:34,320
podcast Norma YouTube channel to check it out.

2559
01:28:34,440 --> 01:28:37,020
Maybe I could make Godcaster tutorials for you

2560
01:28:37,020 --> 01:28:37,820
guys if you need them.

2561
01:28:38,100 --> 01:28:38,360
Whoa.

2562
01:28:38,660 --> 01:28:39,280
Who's this?

2563
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:40,720
Cole McCormick.

2564
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:41,520
Cole McCormick.

2565
01:28:41,620 --> 01:28:42,680
Shoot me an email, brother.

2566
01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:44,600
I got some needs.

2567
01:28:45,460 --> 01:28:46,420
Got some needs.

2568
01:28:46,780 --> 01:28:47,620
Got some needs.

2569
01:28:48,620 --> 01:28:51,540
And the delimiter comes to blogger eighteen thousand

2570
01:28:51,540 --> 01:28:53,100
sixty sats through fountain.

2571
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:54,520
He says, howdy, Dave and Adam.

2572
01:28:55,220 --> 01:28:57,360
I'd like to invite your audience to subscribe

2573
01:28:57,360 --> 01:28:59,780
to a 30 minute long podcast called Under

2574
01:28:59,780 --> 01:29:04,340
the Radar, available at www.relay.fm slash

2575
01:29:04,340 --> 01:29:04,840
radar.

2576
01:29:05,320 --> 01:29:07,340
Both co-hosts are millionaires.

2577
01:29:07,980 --> 01:29:11,020
Marco Armit, the developer of Overcast podcast app

2578
01:29:11,020 --> 01:29:14,180
who got rich off Tumblr and David Smith,

2579
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:17,480
independent iPhone developer whose Widget Smith app went

2580
01:29:17,480 --> 01:29:17,840
viral.

2581
01:29:18,260 --> 01:29:19,820
So he got very rich and moved to

2582
01:29:19,820 --> 01:29:20,980
Scotland from USA.

2583
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:23,120
Good talk about solo dev.

2584
01:29:23,340 --> 01:29:24,160
Yo, CSP.

2585
01:29:25,260 --> 01:29:27,080
Did Marco sell Tumblr?

2586
01:29:28,100 --> 01:29:30,180
He he was one of the original founders

2587
01:29:30,180 --> 01:29:30,620
of Tumblr.

2588
01:29:31,100 --> 01:29:33,200
He was he owned a bunch of Tumblr

2589
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:34,760
stock and got rich when they sold.

2590
01:29:35,080 --> 01:29:36,360
Oh, I didn't realize that.

2591
01:29:36,460 --> 01:29:37,020
Oh, that's cool.

2592
01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:37,340
Yes.

2593
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:39,340
I think he was like employee number two

2594
01:29:39,340 --> 01:29:39,640
or three.

2595
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:40,980
Oh, nice.

2596
01:29:41,140 --> 01:29:41,640
That's cool.

2597
01:29:42,480 --> 01:29:45,540
Oh, late boost from Darren O.

2598
01:29:45,780 --> 01:29:48,320
Darren O'Neill, the rock, the rock and

2599
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:49,820
roll pre-show guy, Chef Darren.

2600
01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:52,140
Fifty five, fifty five in the pipe.

2601
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:55,800
If podcasting was all about money, unrelenting wouldn't

2602
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:56,240
exist.

2603
01:29:56,520 --> 01:29:57,400
Go podcasting.

2604
01:29:57,860 --> 01:29:58,560
Thank you, Darren.

2605
01:29:59,220 --> 01:29:59,920
Yeah, that's true.

2606
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:01,960
Unrelenting is always on the stream before we

2607
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:02,280
start.

2608
01:30:03,900 --> 01:30:05,040
And yeah, exactly.

2609
01:30:05,780 --> 01:30:08,320
And before Darren has a rich wife, so

2610
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:09,520
easy talking for you.

2611
01:30:10,780 --> 01:30:12,480
Some of us got to pay rent, Darren.

2612
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:18,060
Oh, man, I'm I'm excited about what's what's

2613
01:30:18,060 --> 01:30:18,800
taking place here.

2614
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:20,220
I'm excited about this community.

2615
01:30:20,340 --> 01:30:22,020
I'm excited about all the things that we're

2616
01:30:22,020 --> 01:30:22,460
developing.

2617
01:30:22,760 --> 01:30:24,900
I'm not so excited about the podcast industrial

2618
01:30:24,900 --> 01:30:27,100
complex, what they're doing.

2619
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:28,980
So where there's no excitement, I'm not going

2620
01:30:28,980 --> 01:30:29,740
to venture anymore.

2621
01:30:30,460 --> 01:30:32,120
And I don't go where I'm not asked.

2622
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:33,760
It makes sense.

2623
01:30:33,900 --> 01:30:34,100
Yeah.

2624
01:30:34,420 --> 01:30:34,540
Yeah.

2625
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:37,360
Hey, Matt, congratulations again on the new gig,

2626
01:30:37,480 --> 01:30:37,600
brother.

2627
01:30:37,780 --> 01:30:38,960
I'm so happy for you.

2628
01:30:39,240 --> 01:30:42,780
You sound happy and keep keep blogging, keep

2629
01:30:42,780 --> 01:30:45,480
posting these these good articles.

2630
01:30:47,460 --> 01:30:48,300
Why are you laughing?

2631
01:30:48,420 --> 01:30:48,900
Why are you laughing?

2632
01:30:49,240 --> 01:30:49,740
Why are you laughing?

2633
01:30:50,140 --> 01:30:52,920
I just think back to last week when

2634
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:54,620
you when you call me mad Matt on

2635
01:30:54,620 --> 01:30:55,280
the podcast.

2636
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:56,080
Well, no, you are.

2637
01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:57,900
You are the international troublemaker.

2638
01:30:58,060 --> 01:30:58,720
Of course you are.

2639
01:30:58,860 --> 01:31:00,940
But that's what we love about you, man.

2640
01:31:00,980 --> 01:31:01,840
I love it a lot.

2641
01:31:02,480 --> 01:31:05,080
And thanks for doing the podcast power dot

2642
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:05,480
cc.

2643
01:31:05,580 --> 01:31:06,760
I'm going to I'm going to post that

2644
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:07,160
as well.

2645
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:09,560
And more stuff like that, people, more stuff

2646
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:10,020
like that.

2647
01:31:10,580 --> 01:31:12,440
Brother Dave, I know you're working this weekend.

2648
01:31:12,580 --> 01:31:14,020
You are you got a lot to do.

2649
01:31:14,480 --> 01:31:15,920
Oh, man, man.

2650
01:31:16,060 --> 01:31:17,340
Can I can I talk to the boss?

2651
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:17,760
We're getting there.

2652
01:31:17,980 --> 01:31:18,860
Can I talk to the boss?

2653
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:21,160
Melissa?

2654
01:31:21,160 --> 01:31:23,920
Hey, boardroom, thank you very much for being

2655
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:24,240
here.

2656
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:25,520
We appreciate all of you.

2657
01:31:25,580 --> 01:31:27,700
This is podcasting 2.0. We are your

2658
01:31:27,700 --> 01:31:31,200
weekly board meeting of all things podcasting 2

2659
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:33,560
.0. Remember one thing when you go to

2660
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:34,080
sleep tonight.

2661
01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:35,300
Go podcasting.

2662
01:31:50,290 --> 01:31:55,090
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0.

2663
01:31:55,190 --> 01:31:58,810
Visit podcast index.org for more information.

2664
01:32:01,410 --> 01:32:02,210
Dadgummit.

2665
01:32:02,470 --> 01:32:04,350
Another fine presentation.