Podcasting 2.0 for June 13th, 2025, episode
224, Fatima Organa.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome.
It's a beautiful Friday.
It should be a beautiful Friday just about
everywhere.
And we are here to talk about what's
happening in podcasting.
Everything that was, everything that is, and everything
that is still yet to be.
We've got it all.
This is the only boardroom that told you
it would all be okay.
I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the
man who thinks that liquid glass is more
than just gorgeous.
Say hello to my friend on the other
end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones.
The biggest, the most stressful part of the
whole show is always, and I do it
every single time, I get a big old
mouthful of some kind of food right, like,
right when you kick it off.
And then I struggle to get it to
go down before you, before you kick it
to me.
You know, it's, we can always wait, you
know, for you to swallow before we get
going and it's fine.
And you're always telling me to rip it
and then you're like not ready for rippage.
I want, I say rip it because I
want to get, because I'm hungry.
I want to get you going so that
I can eat.
But if you just eat and then we
rip it, then it'll be less of an
issue.
Yeah, but I'm going to keep eating.
I eat through the whole show, you know,
the lunch break.
I eat through the whole show.
Well, I've got the guys working on the
septic tank here.
So they're sucking the poop out.
So sometimes it gets a little bit noisy.
Did you have a backup or?
No, no.
And we have, we have an aerobic system.
So it, it actually turns the waste into
water, just like a water plant, like a
water purification plant does.
And then it goes back into your faucet?
No, we have sprinklers and it, and it
sprinkles the lawn.
And that's basically good water.
But after five years or so, you know,
there's wipes and all kinds of crap that
gets in there.
Wipes?
Wipes.
I'm a big wipe guy, Dave.
What can I tell you?
I would, when we used to live at
the bottom of a big hill, it was
like in a, we lived sort of like
in a bowl.
Mm-hmm.
Shaped kind of valley.
You would get everything rolling down the hill
to you.
And we had constant septic issues.
And so whenever I would call the septic
guys out, I don't know that they call
it out there, but was it the pickle
truck?
Is that what they call it?
The pickle truck?
Yeah.
And so you'd come, whenever the septic guys
would come out, when I would come home,
they would have opened up our septic tank.
And the smell of our septic tank would
just fill the entire community because of this
valley that we're in.
It was, I mean, I was like, I'm
so sorry to my neighbors.
You have to smell, smell our poop from
like houses down.
The honey truck.
Yeah.
The honey truck.
Yeah.
Well, you see, it's because it's already been
purified.
We don't have that issue.
It's just at a certain point, you just,
you just got to do it.
You just got to.
So when you say my poop don't stink,
you mean it.
I mean it, baby.
That's right.
You can drink my poop.
That's for real.
An aerobic septic system is an amazing invention
invented in the swamps of Louisiana.
Did you know this?
I did not know where it was invented,
but I do know that some places require
it, right?
Oh, I don't know about that.
I don't know about that.
Yeah.
There's, there's natural habitats that are like by
regulation if you're going to live or install
septic.
Oh yeah.
You have, it has to be aerobic.
Well, I, I love it.
I really do.
So what it does is it just pumps,
has a little CO2 pump and just continuously
pumping CO2 into it, which, you know, gets
rid of all the bacteria and, and then
just purify this guy.
I think it's got five different tanks and
it flows from one to the next, to
the next, next at the, at the last
one.
It's like, all right, time for the lawn.
And it's, and it's not poopy.
It's just water.
Does it, does it get rid of the
bacteria or does it just generate a different
type of bacteria?
It kills them dead on contact.
Okay.
Just kills them dead.
So it goes through a progressively more and
more like filtration as it.
Yes.
Okay.
And you thought this was the podcasting show.
It's the poop casting show, everybody.
Poop casting 2.0. Poop casting 2.0.
And oh my God, just like that.
Oh no.
One piece of research changes.
Everything.
YouTube is not dominating podcasting.
Oh, everybody.
Everybody's like, wow.
Whoa.
Hey, I rubbed off.
We're about to do a.
Hasn't everybody been saying that for like the
last two years?
Like.
I'm sorry.
No, no, no, no.
There've been a lot of people who have
been saying no video, man.
It's video.
It's all about video.
You got to have video.
Got to do it.
If you listen carefully, listen to the, can
you hear, can you hear this?
You hear that sound?
Yeah.
That is the actual sound of hell freezing
over.
Oh yes.
Yes.
You hear it now?
That's hell freezing over.
As I was listening to the new media
show from just yesterday.
You know, I, I have this perception that
I've been like all this pro video, pro
video stuff.
But if you really listen to what I've
said over the last few months and really
and I'm, I'm trying to emphasize this again
because I think that it's been confused.
My, my position on this is that video
is kind of like getting more attention now.
Right.
But audio is still growing and it's still
a significant contributor to the success of podcasting.
And I think video has just gotten more
attention because it's kind of like, like you
said, Todd, it's a little bit of a,
you know, it's the shiny thing.
Oh, that's what it is.
Kind of in the space right now.
Oh, it's the shine.
Rob, I could not listen to the new
media show for the past year without hearing
you say the market's going that way.
Everyone's going video.
Got to be videos.
Has to be video.
The market says it's video.
We've got to pay attention.
This is what the young people want.
The young people want video.
And then it turns out you were hearing
it wrong.
I was hearing it wrong.
I was holding it wrong.
That was my problem.
I got it.
Uh, I do take a little bit of
issue with this signal Hill insights.
Uh, research conclusion is, um, and that was
the literal title of the, I'm sure you've
heard about this of the, uh, YouTube isn't
dominating podcasting.
Um, and this is what I thought was
kind of a little bit off a majority,
61% of podcast consumers use another platform
other than YouTube most often.
So I just want to stop for a
second.
Apple podcast app is not a platform.
The Spotify player of podcasts is not a
platform.
Podcasting is the platform because it's this.
Yes.
So it's, you know, people have got to
stop.
This is not a platform.
It's not a platform.
And if, if you really want to think
about it, because I did this in my
spare time last night, we have four and
a half million podcasts.
So can we say that on average, if
you take all those four and a half
million podcasts, could we say that the average
of those podcasts is 100 listeners?
Would that be fair?
Do you think if you really did the
average of like Joe Rogan with 10 million,
no agenda with 900,000, I mean, uh,
this show has several thousand.
Do you think you break out a calculator?
Well, you said you did this work.
Did you, how, how deep did you go?
Cause I can, I can, we can just
do a quick one right here.
Cause I grogged it.
You grogged the, the, um, I mean the,
the, the audience size for Rogan that gets
quoted the most often is 21 million.
Oh no, I've heard 10 million, 12 million.
I've not, I've not heard 21 million, but
I'll take that.
Really?
No.
I thought, where did I, did I pull
that out of my butt?
I thought that was a thing.
Um, let's say, well, let's say 21 million.
Um, let's do 21 and then divided by
four and a half million podcasts.
Well, that's going to be, that's not going
to be a hundred.
That's going to be, uh, four, four.
Yes.
Yeah.
So let's, okay.
Well, considering that most of those podcasts probably
don't even have one.
Um, I mean, I mean, there's probably 2
million podcasts on, on, on anchor that nobody
has ever listened to.
Okay.
Not even one time.
Let's take 2 million podcasts.
I have at least a hundred listeners.
Let's take a hundred.
Well, let's take 1 million, 1 million of
those podcasts have at least a hundred listeners.
Is that fair?
Daniel J.
Lewis in the, in the boardroom says, according
to Lipson's hosting data, they say the median
is usually around 150.
Okay.
So that's marketing.
So let's take it down to a hundred.
Good.
Yes.
All right.
A hundred podcasting as a platform has 400
million listeners.
Oh, I'm on board with this.
Okay.
Let's do this.
So that, that, that's how I look at
it.
Yeah.
It's, it's that simple.
And we're joking over to power podcast weekly
review that I, did I say that the
pod father now says podcasting is audio only.
Did I say that?
I think, yeah, I think you did good.
I'm sticking to it.
You wrote it on stone tablets.
I did.
And if it breaks, come back, I'll give
you another tablet.
Don't worry about it.
We'll give you a do over.
I'll take care of you.
Because in general, yeah, there are video podcasts.
Absolutely.
But then there's YouTube and YouTube is great
for what it is.
We've been saying this forever on the show.
Now, the last time we spoke, which I
think was a week ago, I believe I
said, if all the hosting companies who are
now desperately scrambling, maybe it slowed down.
We got to do HLS video.
We got to get the video.
We got the video, video to the video,
the video to get the video, video, video,
video, video, video.
I heard Tom Rossi and he sounded exactly
like that.
That was my Tom Rossi impersonation.
I'm glad you picked up on it.
You nailed it.
Here's what's happening.
If we just focus on creating the, I'll
call them features.
You can call them namespace tags and continue
publishing.
We win case in point.
Spotify now supports namespace transcripts.
Yes.
Now let me, let me, let me read
to you what they wrote.
Okay.
If you choose to provide your own transcript,
you can now also distribute it to other
listening platforms via RSS.
You can head to podcast settings to enable
this feature.
And here's the best part.
This is just the start of our investment
in more creator control.
Oh, okay.
Spotify.
That's fine.
I would like to point out that for
Apple and for Spotify, this happened without marketing,
without leadership, without evangelism, without a website, without
the podcast standards protocol.
It all happens because the podcast hosting companies
are publishing that content.
This is what I've been saying since the
beginning.
Publish and they will ingest and they will
eventually use it.
So the hosting companies, God bless you all.
And I mean that you are driving this
adoption by using it and they can't get
around us.
We are Goliath.
I hate saying that.
No, that's, I said that wrong.
We're David, but we're going to kill Goliath.
We, but we are the, we are the
gorilla.
We are the big gorilla.
When you have hundreds of thousands of feeds,
publishing chapters, cloud chapters, and publishing transcripts and
next publishing funding tags, they can't get around
us.
If you don't need, do we don't need
to be at conferences?
Hi, I'm the podfather.
Join the 2.0 revolution.
Oh, just put it into your feeds.
That's it.
Put it in.
Just stick it in.
Podsage says, just stick it in there.
There's got to be a t-shirt.
Podcasting dude, 2.0, just stick it in.
I, I, I a hundred percent agree with
you.
And, um, things take a long time, but
people don't want to wait.
You know, 90% of, um, 90%
of success in any endeavor is just being
there every day, continuing to do the thing
and just being patient and continuing the work
and not giving up.
Just, just, just showing up is 90%.
Most open source projects, most open source projects
just don't have that sort of staying power
that, you know, because people, because it's, it's,
it's difficult.
It's a time sink.
It's, you know, it's hard to get super
jazzed up about something that you're not getting
paid for is there's, there's a lot of
reasons.
And, you know, like for the love of
the game sounds fun, but it's really not
on a daily basis.
A lot of it's not fun, but you
just, if you just keep showing up all
the time.
Yes.
And I'm talking about everybody who's involved in
podcasting 2.0, which now includes anchor, uh,
excuse me, not anchor a Spotify.
One of these days I'm going to stop
calling him anchor.
Um, but that, which includes them.
Now they've decided to join the party.
It, you just keep showing up and doing
stuff and eventually things will get adoption.
But if you give up and you leave,
you know, because it wasn't happening fast enough,
then you absolutely will not get any adoption.
That's the quickest way to assure that you're
not going to get to the, to the,
to the ends that you want is by
getting impatient and, and, and leaving.
I mean, LL, you know, AI LLMs are,
you know, they're the, the latest rage, but
the, the, the things that the transformer model
that LLMs are based on, that goes back
to a paper written in 2014.
Amen.
It was 10 years ago.
And the, the, uh, we talked about before
activity pub.
That was a decade old before anybody, before
he got any kind of traction.
These things just take time.
And eventually, uh, I think, I think there's
gotta be a clip of me saying this
at some point in the past.
I think it might've been on, um, on
like an interview with Sam Sethi, but we'll
Spotify, you know, adopt these tags.
And I think I said, yes, they will
have to.
Yeah.
Eventually they will because they'll have to, because
they'll have no other choice because it's right
there in front of them.
There's hundreds of thousands of, of feeds doing
things with this content and they can't not
do it.
It's always been, it's always been the defeatist
attitude of apple doesn't, doesn't accept it.
And we change that.
We change that by creating an index that
enables all of this metadata to be transferred
easily.
And what was the, I'm looking for the
actual numbers.
Was this something like 30 to 38%
of all podcasts listening is other.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
But that's us.
And that's not a small amount.
And again, my experience is if you publish,
it will be used.
It just will be.
It's always been that way.
When I started, yeah, no, go ahead.
You're, and you're, you're right.
The hosting companies, they, they, the, the developer
group on podcast index.
Social and the get hub, they created these
things, but the, the hosting companies are the
ones that pushed this thing into the realm
of possibility.
Yes.
By pushing by, by creating content.
If you give, if you give a app
developers enough content, they'll want to do things
with it because it's fun.
Exactly.
You know, and I go back to my
old example for a, when did we start
freedom controller 15 years ago?
Yeah, totally.
For 15 years, I've been publishing my show
notes as OPML files.
So basically machine readable and developer saw it
and went, Hey, that's fun.
Let me make a search engine out of
it.
Hey, that's fun.
I can take these show notes and put
them on a webpage.
Hey, that's fun.
I can ingest this into an LLM, enter
bingit.io, and I can turn it into
a supercharged search engine just because I publish
it.
Did it happen immediately?
No.
Took many years.
Did I go out and evangelize?
No, no.
Somebody finally saw it and went, Oh, Oh,
that's interesting.
I think I will make something from it.
That's how it goes.
You didn't evangelize.
But one thing you did do is you
always brought it up on the agenda all
the time.
You always said something to the effect of,
um, if you want to go find our
show notes, it's all in OPML format.
You can just suck it down and do
whatever you want with it.
Yes.
And somebody finally heard and did something with
it.
A couple of people, a couple of people.
That's the way a lot of this stuff
works is, you know, it's not marketing really,
it's just using the power of the microphone,
which is inherent in podcasting.
There's a saying in, uh, so, you know,
the, the, the branch of philosophy, or maybe
it's a, maybe it's a branch of rhetoric,
you know, polemics.
There, there's a, a, a sort of cliche
and polemics that the man with the microphone
always wins or, or somehow, or another version
is, don't ever argue with the man with
the microphone.
Yeah.
The, the, it's basically like, don't, don't challenge
the professor in class because he's always going
to win because he's got the power of
the microphone in front of him.
And so, you know, the microphone is a
powerful thing in podcasting.
It relies on that power.
And when, so when you just mention things
like, Hey, try out a, try out a
2.0 app.
Hey, we have transcripts if you need them.
Hey, we have chapters, you know, we, we
do, we publish live.
If you just mention these things, eventually it
will get adoption.
Time for me to once again, go to
op3.dev. And, uh, let me see.
No agenda because every single show, every single
one, I tell people why they should be
using a podcasting 2.0 app.
Let's go see what people are using.
And I'm going to scroll down and to
the app section.
We have, let's see.
That's a lot.
Wow.
A lot of, uh, that's interesting.
A lot of, uh, that's browsers and refers.
That's not what I want.
Here we go.
Apple podcast, 36% podverse, 13% podcast
guru, 7% podcast addict, almost 7%
overcast, six and a half pocket casts, almost
five fountain where, whereas, uh, you know, that's,
that's pretty good.
I mean, that's, that's a bigger mix than
I bet you almost any other podcast because
of the polemics.
Yeah.
Because you say it because of the podcast,
polemics, podcast, polemics.
I'm liking that.
Hold on a second.
I mean that it works.
Yep.
It works.
And, and you know, it's, it's the, the,
the hosting company, the, the, the hosting companies,
uh, push out the content, the smaller app
developers, they hammer out these things because it's
fun and they wanted to, and they want
to do cool stuff.
And God bless Stephen B's sovereign feeds for
that.
That's.
And that was the first thing that I
was just adamant about.
Martin tried it for a bit and it's
very difficult to do, particularly ingesting an existing
feed and then adding these new, uh, tags
to it.
But I've been publishing sovereign feeds ever since,
uh, I have the four years now.
So I'm publishing all, I'm still publishing social
interact.
I'm publishing all of it.
Yeah.
Does it get used everywhere?
No.
Apple just ignores it.
That's fine.
But I'm seeing market share erode to pod
verse, podcast, guru, podcast addicts, and interestingly overcast.
but the top outside of Apple podcast, pod
verse, podcast, guru, podcast addict, dwarf overcast, dwarf.
And if you take all of these, uh,
together, so that's a seven, seven, five.
We get pretty close to rivaling Apple podcasts
from my podcast with, uh, independent apps.
So I did some math.
I looked at, um, I looked at the
latest weekly feed dump and the latest, the
latest dump shows that.
So this, this, a weekly report, uh, gets
emailed every week and it's, uh, it just
gives a list of the hosting companies.
Uh, each, each hosting company and how many
feeds in the index they represent.
Okay.
So in this, I've been, this, this report
has been automated, uh, generating every week for
almost the entire life of the index.
And, uh, so I just went through, I
printed it off and I just, and I
checked a feed of each one to see
if they declared the namespace.
And then I just totaled up how much
that, how many of the feeds that total
that represents.
So the, uh, anchor, we have a hundred,
we have 1,000,829,777 feeds from
anchor, from anchor.
That's five listeners.
Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, uh, Spotify for podcasters, I need to
change these names.
But so if you go down the list,
you got anchor, Spreaker, Buzzsprout, uh, SoundCloud, iVoox,
RSS.com, Podbean, Lipson, Podomatic, Castbox, Castos, Acast,
Blueberry, uh, Blueberry is, uh, famously difficult to
count because of power press and because of
their 25 different white glove services.
Right.
Uh, feed burner, white glove.
I like white glove instead of white label.
That's nice.
White label.
Yeah.
White label.
Yeah.
Yes.
Right.
Wait, I meant white label.
You're right.
Uh, feed burner, uh, LibriVox, Captivate.
I'm just doing the top 25, uh, Hubhopper,
Transistor, Red Circle, Megaphone, Islam House, Cambridge University,
Simplecast, Omnicontent, and, uh, Gemalaya.
So that's the, that's just the top 25
and by the time you get down to
the, to the 25th position, you've gone from
1.8 million feeds with Spotify for podcasters
to Gemalaya with 16,000 feeds.
So it's a very quick drop off the
top, you know, it's, it's heavily weighted to
the top five.
Yeah.
Top 10 really.
So the, if you, if you look at
out of the top 25, 1, 2, 3,
4, 5, 6, 7, 8 of those do
not declare the podcast namespace.
If you go bigger and go to like,
you know, the top 50, it's, you know,
many more do declare the namespace.
So if you start adding up feed counts,
I just, I just quit counting at a
certain point.
So this number is actually way higher than,
than, than it, than I have here.
Then the real number is way higher, but
I just ran out of patients counting.
I'm adding up at least three and a
half million podcasts out of the four and
a half million that declare the podcast namespace.
Now, I mean, you're pushing 80%.
Yes.
And this James and Sam is why I
declare that mission is accomplished.
You can laugh at me all you want,
you limeys, but mission accomplished.
Are you tired of winning yet?
Yes.
In fact, I'll go one step further.
There is no other media but podcasting.
Podcasting dwarfs it all.
It dwarfs cable.
It dwarfs everything.
It dwarfs it as episodic, independently transmitted and
managed media.
It dwarfs anything.
Go to the platforms all you want.
The platforms steal from you.
This is, this is a, the revolution has
kind of been silent, but it is so
big.
It is so much bigger.
And I, and I appreciate our, our, our
friend from Signal Hill Insights for, I'm like
Paul Rismandel.
I'm not, you know, it's like, I understand
that people listen to me and go like,
oh, what a twat.
I get it.
Not every time.
No, most of the time.
So I, I appreciate, and that's, is it
cumulus media?
Oh, that's interesting.
This is just the beginning of the end
for everybody.
For everything else.
And once we get our heads out of
our butts about, well, I got to be
number one on the chart.
You got to be a God, but grow
my show.
Todd.
It's not all about growing your show.
It's not.
This is what I get to the funding
tag.
And so we now have, um, true fans
and, uh, fountain doing their own version, but
both enabling in obvious ways for people to
support the podcast with a button that says
support this podcast and you click on it.
And, and I think both allow you to
use Google pay, uh, Google, uh, was it,
uh, Google play pay and Apple pay to
send your money.
Now I, we invented, uh, the, what are
you drinking?
Oh, this is a LaCroix pure.
I'm going organic to dynamite.
Um, you know, of course we put in,
uh, the lightning network as a backup for
de-platforming off of PayPal.
That was the initial thought behind it.
And it's incredibly valid and I love it.
And I use it and I love getting,
um, uh, boosts and streaming sats, but we
need to start pushing the funding tag in
our feeds and in our apps.
And you know what?
Apple's going to love it.
Oh, wait a minute.
You click on this and then our people
are, our app users can just use Apple
pay.
Boom, done.
Yeah, this is, I agree.
I'm, I'm gonna, um, I'm, I'm going to
predict since, since we're in a winning mood.
Yes.
Let's go, let's go bold or go home.
Go, go.
The bold is the bold prediction is going
to be that Apple themselves will support the
funding tag.
I completely agree.
It may take five years, but they will
do it.
Yeah.
And I don't think it will take that
long.
And I think the, the winner on the
backend will be Stripe.
Hmm.
I can't exactly say why I think that,
but they just seem to have, I mean,
I've dealt with Stripe now, myself, you've dealt
with Stripe.
They kind of have their crap together on
the backend.
You know, it's reasonably easy to, to get
your Stripe account set up and connect it.
I don't know if it's available everywhere in
the world.
It seems like on no agenda, we started
using Stripe and a lot of foreigners use
it.
Oh, scam likely.
No, I don't think so.
Um, that sounded like a light phone.
That is a light phone.
I'm using my light phone.
I recognize that tone.
I love the light phone ringtone.
Um, yes.
I, I think that Stripe has a very
good chance of being a winner in the
funding tag wars of 2025.
Um, because with Stripe, you can indeed use
your, I know you can use Apple pay.
I'm presuming you can use your, your, your
Google pay, play pay.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
And, uh, PayPal, all that.
Yeah.
They're, they're very reasonable.
So this is a dynamite way to support
your podcast.
It removes tons of hurdles when you can
just say, Oh, just hit on the, on
the donate button, hit the boost button, hit
the give button, whatever.
And that, by the way, something that should
change dynamically as the spec says for the
funding tag, you can put in into the
funding tag what you want that to say.
Now, if you, if you put in a
whole paragraph, that's not going to work, but,
um, I've seen it.
I've seen it change dynamically here and there
out in the wild, if you know what
I mean.
Yes.
And, and I think that this is a
dynamite easy, easy, easy piece to the puzzle.
For not having to chase listeners and just
do, do your podcast.
And if it's any good, if the topic
is on point for what you know about,
people will listen to it and they will
tell other people, Hey, this is an interesting,
uh, interesting podcast about hubcaps.
You know, you're a hubcap guy, aren't you?
Yeah.
I'll listen to the hubcap podcast and true
to the value for value model.
Unless you ask, people will not give you
any money.
If you ask them, they will.
I have lived by this for 17 and
a half years.
Everybody can do it.
And the sooner we stop chasing after the
Fata Morgana, that is a, what I know
you'd like to have Fata Morgana.
Grok it.
What does that mean?
Fata Morgana.
Oh, let me look at it.
I'm going to, I'm going to open web
UI it.
Web UI it.
Are you looking at your own, uh, LLM?
Fata Morgana.
Okay.
What does Fata Morgana say?
No, I use the wrong model.
I use the coder model.
It's going to, it's going to give me
a function.
Fata Morgana is a complex form of mirage,
an optical phenomenon caused by the bending of
light rays as they pass through layers of
air with different temperatures and densities.
This creates distorted or inverted images of distant
objects, often seen over bodies of water or
in deserts.
So this is like, uh, this is like
this, um, seeing, thinking you see an Oasis
when you don't.
Correct.
If Fata Morgana, the Fata Morgana, that's a
show title, by the way, I think, I
think we have a show title.
The Fata Morgana of you have to have
dynamic ads inserted.
You have to have at least 10,000
downloads a month or whatever, whatever it's changed.
That's a race to the bottom.
It's already changed.
It was 10,000.
Then it was 2000.
Now it's a thousand.
I think so much saying, Hey, whatever you
got, you got three downloads.
Come on in.
We'll give you a penny.
Come on in.
You're good.
Yeah.
Whatever you got, whatever you got, bring it,
bring it.
We'll aggregate it and we'll get you some
money.
Um, which is just okay.
You know, but if you ask people, they
will support you.
And if not, you come back to me
and said it didn't work.
Um, and when you, and we have, we
have future plans for, uh, the funding tag
as well.
You know, we, there's, there's ideas to extend
that thing and, uh, you know, add new
twist to it.
Uh, it's, it's a good, simple, it's a
dead, simple use case tag.
Do you wish to expand on the, uh,
the future enhancements of the funding tag?
I, I, this may have eluded me.
Uh, no, no, no, I think, I think
you were aware of it.
Just, you know, there's always been sort of,
uh, there's always been people that have talked
about doing things like, uh, given it, giving
an extra attribute for, uh, like a, um,
what would you call it?
Like a, like a hint as to what
type of payment.
Oh, right, right, right, right, right.
Yes.
You know, so that you could sort of
like bake, bake a thing into it where
you could like bring Apple pay or Google
pay, right.
Bring an icon, something like, yes, trade it.
You can bring it straight.
More than a chicklet.
Isn't that a song more than a chicklet?
More than a chicklet.
It's not just chewing gum.
So stuff like that, like, like bring, you
know, bringing in stuff.
And then, yeah.
what was it?
Yeah.
Chad said that, uh, Stephen B had a,
I did a, I used to do a
link tree style thing.
So there's been, Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah.
Right now there's, it's a dead simple tag
and it's, it's just really easy to implement.
but it's hidden, it's hidden in podcasts.
It's hidden behind an innocuous icon.
It's hidden in a menu, uh, even on
my, my daily driver podcast guru.
I, by the way, I, I boosted a
mega baller boost the other day from podcast
guru from my own node.
It went through and I was happy.
Oh, I couldn't, I couldn't believe it.
Oh, um, Twib.
Twib.
Okay.
Did you ever get, did you ever get
the $10 that I sent you?
I did.
Yeah, I got it.
Oh yeah, I got it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Tina and I went out for dinner.
We had a marshmallow.
Y'all shared one.
We shared a marshmallow.
You split it down the middle.
Yeah.
Thank you very much for supporting the cause.
Yeah.
I saw it on the, on the credit
card.
It said to curry.com.
I was like, did he ever get that?
I did.
Yes.
Um, yeah.
So I think there's like, there's a lot
of, and so I've started back working on
the images tag, uh, this week and working
with Nathan, uh, Gathwright to, to try to
get some traction on that.
Uh, and I think that we're, we're in
a good place with 2.0 in the
namespace because it was, you know, we slow,
we slowed down the pace of development and
that is, has been a good thing because
lots of people are now adopting and that
becomes sort of a snowball as people adopt
other people adopt.
And so there's just a lot of that
going on right now.
I mean, Spotify being a, you know, a
completely out of the blue.
And, and I mean, I'm thrilled to death
about it because once you, once you take
the, uh, the big step of putting the
namespace into your XML, once that's, that's the
big step.
If you can cross that Rubicon, then everything
else flows downhill from that because you, you
now can just write to, you can write
to the spec without having to change the
structure of the feed.
you know, you can just know that it's,
you can just know that it's there.
You don't have to touch the feed again.
do you actually see the namespace being declared
and anchor a Spotify for podcasters?
Oh yeah, it's there.
Yeah, yeah, it's there.
No, the winning is, is, is happening.
I mean, we're going to win so much.
We're going to get tired of winning.
So we're just going to be like, Dave,
Dave, stop the winning brother.
Stop it.
It's too much.
It's too much winning.
So this is, you know, that's the big
step.
And, and Spotify will add more things as
time goes on because once a company starts
seeing the, the, the downstream effect of adding
these open interoperable tags, you can't, you, it
just becomes addictive.
I mean, there's just, there, it's just such
easy win.
Yeah.
I mean, you're a developer, you're sitting at
Spotify, you're sitting there and like everything's humming
along and you're like, what am I going
to do today?
Oh, let me see.
What is this?
What is this chapters thing?
What is this funding tag thing?
But where could I make that look like
in our interface?
Let me, let me give it a shot.
Yeah.
We vibe, we vibe code for a bit
and then we make it all work.
And we say, Hey manager, manager, what do
you think of this?
What do you think of this?
Yeah.
That's exactly right.
And we think it's something simple like the
funding tag, the funding tag.
They can, they, they can allow us Spotify
for podcasters, podcast to stick a funding, uh,
link in there.
It can redirect back to a payment landing
page on Spotify for podcasters where they can,
where they can take a donation or to
get a payment.
Yes.
Spotify can get a piece of that action.
Boom, boom, boom.
I mean, there's just so many things.
Yeah.
And all without marketing, leadership, evangelism, just publish,
just publish.
Publish.
That's all it takes.
It's all it takes.
The, the, um, the one thing that we
do need now, uh, is cupcakes or bagels.
One of the two.
Great.
But about now decaf, we're out of decaf,
decaf for your American or you're right.
You're making a run.
Yeah.
Americano.
All right.
Decaf Americano.
Yeah.
We only do pour over.
Why do they tell you that every single
time?
I don't know.
I don't care.
Um, so on the namespace, since we're on
namespace, uh, we kind of entered the namespace,
the back through the back door without going
through the portal.
But, um, the name, while we're on namespace
stuff, somebody who's better with react than me.
Could some, could whoever that person is, please
do a pull request on the, on the
web, web UI repo of podcast index, get
hub and change the, the site to where
the namespace page on the site redirects to
the get hub.
Now, as it came out of my mouth,
I realized that's very garbled.
Yes.
So if you go to any, um, just
find any feed that, that declares the namespace,
let's, let's do this one.
Uh, uh, let me go here.
Well, the first one I clicked on is
just completely Japanese.
That's not going to work.
Mm.
That's Sonic bowl.
What?
This Sonic bowl dot cloud.
Never heard of that host before.
Okay.
Sonic bowl.
Hey man.
Uh, podcasting.
Let's just find this feed.
Okay.
So the podcasting to do, to do, uh,
namespace, uh, as it's declared in the, in
a feed has a URL associated with it.
And that URL goes to our website.
Um, uh, and so what I've always been,
what I've always done is I've, I've taken
the current, uh, markdown version of the namespace
of the primary namespace document.
And then I've created an HTML version off
of that on our website.
But, but that's a B that's a pain
in the butt.
And sometimes I forget to update it.
And so what's, what can happen, what happens
is you'll end up that sometimes people use
that namespace document, that namespace URL as their
primary document source.
And it may be wrong.
We're missing some stuff, but that URL is
important.
It needs to never change.
Um, it's, this gets into sort of the
weeds of XML voodoo here.
But X, when you inside XML, inside most
XML interpreters, the namespace is not the prefix.
The namespace is the URL.
So that, that thing at the top XML
NS colon podcast equal, and it's got a
URL.
That's the namespace.
But, you know, we sort of like we
cheat a lot of times and we just
look for, we just look for the, for
the prefix and that works.
It works most of the time if you
just look for like podcast colon, but, but
inside the state machine of the, of, of
an XML parser, one that actually conforms to
proper XML parsing, it's fall.
It's looking for the URL.
It's making an association, but in the URL
and the prefix.
And so that URL needs to be the
same everywhere.
So we made a decision way, way, way
back at the very beginning of the namespace.
Originally the namespace pointed to pointed to the
get hub URL, but we made a decision
to point it to podcast index.org just
to, you know, have it live on an
actual site and not just be some sub,
you know, sub path of, of get hub
because who knows?
I mean, maybe in the future we move
somewhere else besides the get hub, whatever.
And so we, we changed it to podcast
index.org slash namespace, something I've, I've forgot.
Um, so that page needs to always stay
the same.
And then, but it can just be a
redirect over to the get hub so that
I have to stop so that I can
stop manually updating the website.
Okay.
Did that make sense?
No, no, but, but someone out there got
it.
Okay.
I love you.
Uh, that's, let's see.
Um, yeah, right now it, right now it
points to, uh, HTTPS colon slash slash podcast
index.org slash namespace slash one dot O.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I understand what you're saying now.
Yes.
That page needs to bounce over to the
get hub when people land there.
I got it.
Okay.
So that's a simple, uh, pull request.
I'll do that in a minute.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
If someone could do that for me, I
mean, I, I can do it.
I just don't want to fight with react
cause I just don't know it very well.
Um, but that would be helpful.
Um, because I just noticed yesterday that, that,
that I forgot to update it on the
last batch on the last phase.
Okay.
I got you.
Yeah.
Uh, let me just, uh, punch down a
second again.
Um, YouTube says, yeah, YouTube's impact report.
They, uh, their response, YouTube is responsible for
$55 billion of GDP, 490,000 jobs.
Wow.
What a way to say we might not
be profitable with our business.
Yeah, that, that is exactly what I thought
is the first thing.
How much money do you make really?
But how are you doing in there with
all your specialized, uh, ASICs and everything for
encoding and all these different formats you're doing
and storage and how are you doing with
that?
That, that was a dumb stat.
Yeah.
I mean, we, I wish we could do
this for, for podcasting.
We probably could.
We could be just as fuzzy.
Of course we have to have the Oxford
school of economics to help us out.
Well, that's what they got.
Well, I mean you could do that with
anything.
You could say, um, you could say all,
all the billionaires in the, in the U
S are responsible for contributing X number of
jobs to the economy.
Well, okay.
Let me, like you could do that with
anything.
I mean, come on.
I was, I was drilling down in their
report and I'm like, do you include the
people who, uh, work at, in Australia at
Roadcaster?
I mean, you know, how far do you
want to go?
How far do you want to go?
So, yeah.
But to me it sounded like, well, we're
having a tough time making money, but look
how good we are for everybody.
Please don't, please don't, please don't split us
off from Google.
Please don't, please don't.
We're good for everybody.
I still think that if they were highly
profitable, they would be talking about it nonstop
in their, in their quarterly.
Of course they would.
It would be the fact that they don't
tell you that they're not.
Yeah.
I agree.
It's a good day in podcast land, Dave
Jones.
It is.
It is a very good day in podcast
land.
I like it.
And, and, um, you know, I, I'm just
happy for, I'm happy for everybody involved.
From, from, uh, you know, from the smallest
podcast app, all the way up through Apple
and the hosting companies, the self hosters, the
self hosters, everybody, everybody who has, everybody who's
taken their own time to contribute to, you
know, to furthering what, what we're all trying
to do here.
That's, this is, this is ever, this is
a win for everybody.
Big time, big time.
And it's, and it's good because now people
are talking differently.
The defeatists like YouTube, you know, research says
YouTube video, the market wants video.
The kids don't listen.
And I hope Spotify gets off the video
tip cause that's dumb too.
And they're going to waste all their money
on that.
They, they, they're good at that.
They're good at wasting money.
Yeah.
Nobody can compete with, with the YouTube behemoth.
It's just, just stop.
And, what Spotify, Spotify, now that they have
decided to, now that they've decided to play,
uh, to play in the 2.0 sandbox,
they should just, honestly, just let the video
thing right off and to be, and to
be whatever it wants to be and focus
on, uh, adding great double down on already
exists.
Yeah.
Double down on it.
Exactly.
You know, they, only a year ago.
Oh, we're audio.
We're an audio platform.
We got audio books.
We got a, we got podcasts, we got
music, we got it all.
You'll always, you're always going to be a
music platform.
It's just, there's no money in it for
them.
Right.
I mean, there's money in it, but whenever
they start to make more money than the,
uh, owners of the content, just raise the
price.
Right.
Yeah.
And so then it goes away again.
Um, but yeah, I just doubled down and
become a double down and become a really
good podcast listening app.
Yeah.
It's going to be hard for them.
It's not in their DNA.
You're right.
It is, but they can, they can be
better.
They can be so much better.
Yeah.
But we also thought that they would never
do 2.0 and they did.
So people can change, you know, I don't
know if we never thought it, you know,
I'm not so sure.
No, I mean, we, we said they would
eventually, but I mean, like we, we never
said like, we tend to just be so
pessimistic and people surprise, people will surprise you.
Yeah.
I don't think you or I have ever
really been pessimistic.
I think we've been nothing but optimistic.
We're still doing this, this podcast.
Oh yeah.
Right.
If we didn't have optimism, we would be,
we wouldn't be doing this podcast for five
years.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Hey, I mean, like I am, I'm eternally
optimistic about this stuff.
I mean, I, I had, I believe for,
for sure that Apple will do the funding
tag.
I think they're going to do live and
I think they'll support the live item.
Oh, they would be so crazy not to
do that.
I mean, that's such an obvious, easy win
for them.
And, you know, there's so many radio stations
that would just love to be in, in
the Apple podcast app.
It's like, yeah, put my stream in man.
Let me, let me create a feed.
You got it.
I'm in.
And that'll, that'll create more business for hosting
companies.
All kinds of good stuff comes from that.
I think it was Sam the other day
that mentioned, I think he said something sort
of pessimistic about Apple's adoption of, of something.
And you know, it, this in this, this
is not just Apple, but this is all
these big companies.
This is Spotify included.
Um, this, the developers inside these companies, they
like doing cool things.
Yeah.
And they're just, they're just, um, and like
Apple podcasts specifically, that is the Apple podcast.
That team is sort of like a, it's
like a, a vestigial tail on the, on
this huge corporate behemoth.
They, they, I think they are a group
of people who genuinely love RSS.
Yeah.
And opens in the, in the open standards
and they want these, they want to do
cool stuff with RSS.
There just happened to be embedded in a
gigantic corporation that moves at just a glacial
pace.
Yeah.
And they have to align their interests with
the release cycles of the rest of the
company and all these things.
It's just, it's just a big, it's just
a hard thing to do.
Yeah.
But the people involved, I think, no, I
think they absolutely do, do care about moving
things forward.
And, uh, in an open standards way.
And I think spot, you know, Spotify just
proved that as well.
But, you know, obviously pocket casts, you know,
does it, while we're talking about, you know,
automatics, a big company, I think these big
companies all, they, they have people in them
that look, that are, that love RSS and
open standards.
So I, I'm eternally optimistic about that stuff.
And in the meantime, you got, you know,
you got the, the, the scrappy 2.0,
you know, upstart apps that are just like
flying all over the place, doing all kinds
of killer stuff.
Yeah.
And being promoted.
Yeah.
And being used.
Yeah.
Franco put in live support.
And he's going to be on the show
next week, by the way.
Yes.
I saw that.
Franco put in live support to cast a
manic.
He's one guy with a day job.
He's a doctor.
Dim.
He's not a podcast developer.
Damn it.
He's a doctor.
He's one.
He's a, he's a physician who does this,
who writes cast a manic on the side.
If he can do it, then the rest
of them have no, you know, they, they
absolutely can do it.
And man, when, when they start looking at
pod ping, everybody's going to win so big.
Cause right now, you know, the 2.0
apps are eating your lunch.
I mean, every single show I say you
want to get a 2.0 app because
you will be notified.
When we go live, you get the live
stream right there in your podcast app.
If you can't listen live, no problem.
90 seconds after I published the podcast, it's
on your app.
You don't have to wait 15 minutes or
four hours for any of the legacy apps
to catch up and people respond and they
like it.
Like, yeah.
And by the way, I think the, the
research showed the signal, the signal Hill insights
that people don't just use one app.
Oh, how about that?
They don't.
They use more than one app.
And Hey, there's stuff that I just hit
the link on the, on the website.
There's all kinds of people listening in different
ways.
It's not just, you know, I got my
one radio.
That's what I'm using.
No, people use different apps for different podcasts
for different reasons.
It may be just organizational.
Like here's where I put all these and
I use it.
You can't fight the research.
It's in the numbers.
I pulled up, uh, I pulled up cast
thematic this morning.
It's my daily driver when I went, I
started to go on my walk and, uh,
so I pull, I pulled it up.
I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to
listen to power, power, power.
And I noticed when I opened it up,
it said, uh, so what Franco's doing, he's
got a really cool thing where it'll show
you like what's coming up.
What's coming up live.
Yeah.
But it's in a plate.
Like you, your playlist, he's got your playlist
at the top and it'll every night.
If there's a live episode, if there's an
episode you subscribe to this currently or a
podcast described to this currently live, or if
there's one pending, it will pop up a
new playlist called live.
Oh, that's kind of cool.
You just tap into the playlist and you'll
see it there.
And it was like, and I opened it
up and I saw the live playlist.
I'm like, Oh, what's I wonder what's live.
And I tapped it and it was us.
Yeah.
Cause I actually put it into the feed
early today.
Yeah.
And it was said pending.
I was like, Oh, well that's cool.
Yeah.
Pending.
We're pending patent pending.
Every app should do this.
Yes.
Every single.
Yes.
It's beautiful.
You okay?
Hang on a second.
Oh, what's wrong?
Pod Sage.
He's parched.
The pod is parched.
You okay?
I'm going to take a drink here too.
Yeah.
All right.
Sorry.
I'm, I was struggling through that.
You okay?
Yeah.
I had a, I had some, some almonds
that went down the wrong.
Oh no.
All right.
I'm good.
You're good.
Okay.
You're good.
Yeah.
I'm sorry.
So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's a beautiful,
beautiful, beautiful feature.
It really is.
I, and I love it.
I use it for, for two shows three
times a week.
And yeah, we need to, um, should we
talk, should we talk about it?
What are we gonna talk about?
Should we talk about images?
What do I talk about?
I'm thinking that, uh, you know, so I
started talking with Nathan about images tag and
we're, we're going to try to develop a
set of examples that show uh, show how
to the power of this tag.
Okay.
And I wondered, do you fully understand what
it is or what it can be right
now?
Nope.
Absolutely not.
I checked out of that a long time
ago.
Which is a good at this.
Here's what I think it is.
Uh, to me, it's similar to the funding
tag conversation, but I can have different types
of images that will show up and we'll
give the app, the apps, the ability to
display different images in different ways to make
it more interesting.
Does that, is that anywhere close to what
it is?
Yes.
So I could have a banner.
I could have a square icon.
I could have a hero sandwich, whatever.
I can have all these different things if
I upload those different size and style images.
That's one that yes, but, but it's, I
would describe it a little differently than that.
Uh, in some aspects.
Well, you are the pod Sage, so I
expect no less.
Yes.
Right.
So what you're saying is not wrong.
You're absolutely correct.
But the, one of the real sort of
powerful ways to use this tag is that
you can target specific apps.
Oh, so, so if I'm a, if, if
I'm a, if I'm the marketing team for,
uh, I don't know, um, smart list, the
smart list bucket.
Wow.
That hurts.
I'm the market.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, I'm, I'm, there's, there's a reason I'm
not using you or any of your stuff.
Smart list.
Those guys are great.
Yes.
Yeah.
If I'm the mark, because they actually have
a marketing team, you, you, there's no such
thing as that.
They sure have a marketing team.
Yes.
So if you're the marketing team for smart
list, you and you have, uh, all kinds
of image assets that you, that you want
to use.
You go and you go through and you
start looking at your podcast and all these
different apps, you start pulling up your show.
You may want to see like what you,
what you might want is, Oh, I see
that this particular app has space for this
type of image at the top, like a
banner.
So the B the best example of this
are not best, but one example of this
is Apple podcasts, uh, web, uh, client.
So if we do, let me put this
in the boardroom, I'll paste it over here.
So this is just an, this is an
example of their, of a channel in, in
the Apple podcast web client.
Okay.
And I'm sure, I'm sure it probably looks
similar.
And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
I got you.
Yeah.
So I could, I could target this with
that banner at the top.
Right.
And they have a specific, they have a
specific documentation of what size that banner is
supposed to be.
Focus needs to work on that because it's
kind of tiny.
Oh, it's terrible.
Yeah.
They need to get the team on that.
So in, in for this, for this, uh,
specific use case, this like, we're looking at
focus on the family's channel on Apple podcasts.
They, that is an image.
I'm almost a hundred percent positive that image.
They have to upload through Apple.
Oh, sure.
Apple's.
Yeah.
The, the, the podcast connect.
Yes.
So imagine that you can do this essentially
the same thing.
You can deliver a non-standard podcast image
like this, but you can target a specific
use case.
So you can say somehow in the XML
tag, you could say, look, here's an image
for Apple podcast channels, or here's an image
for true fans, background banner.
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm, I'm with you.
And where, where does this repo live for
all these, uh, targets?
Well, that's, that's defined in the spec.
So we have, we have that in the,
it's in the proposed images, tag spec.
Okay.
And so then you could go through, you
know, a marketing team could go through and
say, okay, here's, here's the asset for this.
I think, I think I just heard, I
just think I just heard a Ted Haasman
pop a chubby and I'll tell you why.
I'll tell you why.
The beard curled up because he is such
a sweet man.
So from, because I'm using sovereign feeds and
for a whole bunch of different reasons, and
it's just, it's a complicated post post-production
process because it's not, you know, a swanky
swift automated system.
I sometimes will accidentally upload the 512 by
512 image into the feed instead of the
1400 by 1400, which on Apple podcast is
an automatic reject.
The Europe, your episode will not appear if
you don't have the right size image.
Right.
And that man is so sweet because I
know he listens to the show and he'll
email me and said, I approved it, but
could you fix it?
So he sees the reject coming and then
he says, ah, just put it through.
And then he emails me and I fixed
the fee.
This happened.
It happens.
It's been six months.
It happened just two weeks ago.
He's got his hand on the knob.
He's ready to punch it through.
That's his hand on the knob.
Okay.
Yes.
So I'm sure that when he, and he
works at Apple in the podcast division somewhere.
So when he looks at this, this example
you gave a focus on the family, I
bet he's just like, Oh, this sucks so
bad.
It makes our stuff look like crap.
Yeah.
So to have that be able to be
done properly at the production end, at the,
at the, the program production end is a
dream.
This is exactly what they want.
And every single app should, can, you know,
now, yes.
Okay.
Image tag is great.
I love it.
Here's, here's another example.
Here's a better example that where the image
is not garbage.
The, the 2020 true crime channel from ABC.
That, that's a better, better sort of banner.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you can imagine.
So now we put these things together and
we say, all right, you got a publisher
feed.
That's going to be an art.
That's an RSS feed with a medium equals
publisher.
And here's the image tag for that.
Well that now you've just built a channel,
you know, you've just built a channel with
appropriate image artwork, and links to your different
pro to your different, uh, your different shows.
I'm already listening to bad rap the case
against Diddy.
So just keep talking.
Okay.
Um, the, so that's the, that's sort of
the gist of this thing is you can,
you can get really specific and begin to,
it's a two way street, um, uh, platforms
and apps and services who have specific styles
can add this art work and add this
to the spec.
Yeah, they, they can define their spec publicly.
If it's not already, then we can take
that spec or they can hopefully with their
help to define sort of the, the, the
naming convention to how to define it.
Right.
What it does.
Yeah.
And then as, and then the content creator
can, can create that artwork and deliver it.
So in this, because there's a fine line
here, um, um, you, app developers want their
apps to look and behave in a certain
way.
And they're not going to seed control over
that.
No.
To some other, they're not going to, they're
not going to let a creator restyle the
interface for their app.
That's just, I mean, that's dumb.
They're not going to let, they're not going
to do that, but it can't, but there
is a balancing thing that happens there where
the app developer does really need there to
be specific high quality image images to make
it, to make it look cool.
Yeah.
Of course.
Right.
I mean, we, we've run into that with
the Godcaster app.
I mean, there's some of the artworks just
terrible and it looks and it comes through
and it looks like garbage.
So there's a, there's sort of a, a
balance that has to happen where, and I
think this respects that balance.
It says, here's a, it says, I know
you want this kind of, Hey app, Hey,
true fans.
I know you want this type of artwork.
I'm going to give it to you.
Hey, um, Spotify, pocket casts overcast.
I know y'all want these dimensions.
These look really good in your app here.
Here's those pieces of art.
And also here's sort of like fallback art
for more generic use cases.
Right.
So you can sort of like, like blanket,
I think all of the different possibilities.
I think what will come out of this
is we'll, we'll have an array of, uh,
of image sizes, types and uses.
And that will, some, I think that'll kind
of become standardized, uh, but it doesn't have
to be.
And that's what, that's what I like about
it.
It's like, okay, I want to use this.
Here's how I want to display the podcast.
It's going to change podcast apps.
It's going to be great.
This is a very good feature.
I like it a lot.
I think so too.
It's, it's, I'm pretty, I'm pretty jazzed about
it.
And what needs to happen though, before, that's
one of the reason I asked you at
the beginning, what do you think this thing
is?
Because this is going to be a tricky
thing to explain to people.
And so, um, I want like, so what,
well, here's, here's the great news.
If I may interject.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
The great news.
We already have a very popular podcast client,
namely the Apple podcast app, which by the
way, has liquid glass.
It's gorgeous.
Um, that thing that I'm sorry, but that
thing's a train wreck.
It's gorgeous.
That just, it's so gorgeous.
Some of those controls are woo.
Yeah.
So we already have an app that we
could, if, if they would just give us
a naming convention, otherwise we'll make one up.
Uh, and people could already start using that
for Apple.
And if we start pushing it, I guarantee
you, Apple's going to go, Hey, what's this?
Well, let's put this in here.
That's much better.
Don't you think?
Oh, for sure.
Um, and, and the other place, this is
great is that most, uh, podcast apps also
have a web version and those web versions
tend to have like sort of, because they're
not mobile constrained, they have like a, a
bigger, they have bigger, wider layouts that need
more coverage.
And so that, you know, would naturally lead
itself to be something like, Hey man, give
it, give it to me.
I'll publish it, but I'll start publishing it.
I'll put it in.
We have, we have artists who make the
craziest stuff.
I'll change it every episode.
Um, let's see, let me look at, uh,
here's what, yeah.
Okay.
So like a podcast guru, they're, they're, they're
web version has a big bang, you know,
has like a big banner area at the
top of it.
Okay.
You know, um, and Nathan's right.
A lot, like a lot of these apps,
true fans does this fountain, does it a
podcast guru is doing it.
It's just a big blurry version of the
album art that, that kind of becomes the
background.
It would be so much cooler if that
was actual art.
Yeah.
Take a look.
So no agenda could do that right away
because we have people doing, Oh yeah, that
blue, that whole, so yeah, he's basically taking
the image and using a version of it
as a blurry banner, but it could be
something fantastic.
Yeah.
And it could be some high quality.
And then, so what we need in order
to get this thing, uh, I think, I
think me and Nathan are sort of in
agreement about this.
I think what we need in order to
get this over the finish line is we
need a set, a set of examples where
we can show, okay, here's, here's the definition
of an image tag in the, in some
XML.
And then here's how it would be displayed
on the screen.
And so you can see, you can sort
of, you know, I don't know how many
of these examples we need.
Uh, Nathan, just, he talked about, uh, building
some sort of a quick, like, a UI
to create these where you could like, you
know, put your, put your stuff in there
and see what it looks like on the,
on the other side.
So you sent, you just posted a smart
list example in the chat room, the boardroom.
So that could be their heads.
Yeah.
It could be, it could be just fancy,
you know, textual artwork.
Yeah.
Artwork.
Yes.
Um, so yeah, I think that's, so that'll
be the next step.
Hopefully we can, we can get something, something
like that pumped out, you know, and, and
not have it take forever.
Uh, but that, I think that's where we're
headed with this.
And it's, I think it's actually going to
be, I mean, this is going to be
one of those tags where it's going to
be, it'll go all the way from just
an H ref and that's it all the
way up to like very specific, you know,
uh, very specific image like hierarchy references and
that kind of thing.
So, you know, it's, it's a cool, very
cool, very powerful tag.
By the way, the, uh, war, the war
of rockets between Israel and Iran is temporarily
paused for a commercial break because I'm, well,
I have the quad screen up in my
studio.
So I have Fox, MSNBC, CNN, and BBC.
They're all in commercial right now.
Funny enough, safe light repair, safelight.com.
So if you've got broken glass Israel, so
it's a, it's a pause.
We're on a short commercial break.
You can start bombing again in a minute.
It's unbelievable.
What was the, uh, what was that thing
back in Iraq war one where like they,
people, uh, journalists were pretending to be in
the war zone.
Yeah.
They were in the basement in front of
a, what was yes.
Back when it was still a blue screen,
blue screen before it became green.
Yeah.
The, the, the scud missiles flying.
Yeah.
The scud, the scud hunk.
What was his name?
The scud Chad.
Some guy was one of those reporters.
He was scud guy.
Yeah.
Hey, let's thank some people, Dave.
I'm being respectful of your time.
We've done a lot.
We've covered a lot.
We've, we've Arthur Kent.
The scud stud.
There it is.
The scud stud.
Yeah.
Salty crayon comes in with 1776 freedom boost.
He says, howdy boardroom.
Here's some freedom sats for your ammos shortage.
Yeah.
Go podcasting.
Well, that'll buy a bullet.
Uh, Lyceum Martin Linda's Kog.
He sent a hundred sats here.
Good for them.
Wake up call for the spot for the
folks.
I should read them in reverse order, I
guess.
Let me see.
Because he always sends a lot free Persia
down with the mullahs.
Okay.
Uh, Dave, what are you eating?
I will test the Finnish brand poppies this
weekend.
Blue, blue Buffalo, blue cheese, chili peanuts, mild
spicy snack with tango Buffalo wing and rich
blue cheese favor.
I was doing a Buffalo wing pistachios, which
were quite nice.
He almost killed you.
Spotify is finally taking a cue from Adam
and Dave.
What a surprise.
Well, you know, no, it's just, it's just
in the feed, man.
It's just what they're seeing in the feeds.
That's it.
Uh, one, two, three, four from Dreb Scott,
who of course does our chapters pre-show
boost boosting and listening live from the Castamatic
app.
I go podcasting.
Oh, there it is.
Yes.
And that is it.
There's low boostage.
The boost is just low during the show.
Oh no, we got, we got more regular
boost than we do than we have normally
does.
So that's good.
Okay.
Um, which is what you got.
We got a pod verse.
We got, they gave us, uh, Mitch gave
us 50 bucks.
Oh, thank you very much, Mitch.
That's much.
And, uh, uh, Paul who's doing the, our
app for Godcaster, he, um, he used some
of the, uh, open source code out of
the pod verse app to do the boot
up.
Like I think he's selling the bootstrapping code.
Yeah.
And he's fixed a lot of bugs in
it.
And, uh, he's going to put, he said
he's going to push that back upstream.
Oh, good.
Yes.
To the pod verse.
Yeah.
Good.
So you expect some fixes coming.
Yeah, that's, um, uh, see, we got some
booster grams.
We got Sue.
Oh, Hey, now, see loss on Linux one,
two, three, four, five, six, one, two, three,
four, five, six.
That's 123,456 sets.
Bala shot Carla 20 is blaze on the
Impala.
I love that brother.
Thank you.
See loss on Linux, man.
That's from fountain.
Nice.
Sending you the same appreciation boost amount.
I sent to pod news weekly review last
week.
This whole thing is a group effort, but
I don't think it would exist if you
had not started the index and weren't doing
the boardroom every week.
Thanks guys.
It's our pleasure.
We do it as a public service.
Yeah.
Thank you.
See loss on Linux.
Appreciate, appreciate that.
Um, anonymous 5,000 sats, the pod verse,
please tell life spring that none of their
lightning stuff is working.
Really?
I try to boost the audio Bible rewind
every day and keep getting errors, both fountain
and Albie.
Steve, is that Steve?
Yes.
Steve Webb.
Yeah.
Steve listens to the show.
He'll hear this and fix it.
Let me see.
Life spring.
Let me just see.
We have, I noticed, I noticed that, um,
Oh, interesting.
So we now have, I don't know who,
who pushed this, but I like it a
lot, but there's a little, uh, warning sign
next to the value for value block on
the podcast index page.
Who did that?
I think it was that Eric PP, I
think, which essentially says it's not going to
work.
Yeah.
So I see Steve web at fountain.com
is not working.
Hmm.
I'm good.
Medium text.
You see it.
You see the little, uh, the little yellow
triangle with an exclamation point.
Yeah.
And I'm thinking, I'm trying to find the
PR.
I think that was Eric PP.
Check your, uh, that was Eric PP.
Check your nodes.
People check your nodes.
No check.
This is what democracy looks like.
Oh yes.
My check, my check, my check.
Uh, Paul Erskine, 7777 striper boost.
Oh, that's very nice.
Little striper fountain.
Yes.
He says, uh, I agree.
Well, so do we.
Primary video podcasts are silly, but what I'd
love is for an app to have a
go view video function so that when I'm
listening to the audio version and the people
reference something that's on the screen, I can
go to the player, it's see video and
it takes me somewhere to see the video
at the timestamp or maybe 30 seconds prior.
Easy to say.
I understand.
It's hard to implement.
No interesting, but list.
Okay.
Here's something I've discovered.
Hang on.
Let me get my paper going to the
discovery desk.
He is now digging around.
He's getting his paper.
He is walking back.
Watch out for that peanut.
Okay.
And he's, I got it.
Yes.
As part of my digging process for figuring
out which hosting companies declared the namespace, I've,
I made a discovery.
And I don't know if I'm rediscovering this
for the second time or if this is
something that's truly a new discovery.
Uh, LibriVox LibriVox declares the namespace.
Okay.
And I don't think I knew that first
of all.
All right.
Did you?
No.
Okay.
But that's not the only cool thing.
Go to podcast index number one seven nine
87 41 podcast index number one seven nine
one seven nine eight seven four one eight
seven four one coordinates locked in Henry V.
LibriVox Henry the fifth on LibriVox.
Click on, click on that.
Uh, click on that.
RSS feed RSS feed.
Yeah.
And I got to do and scroll, scroll
down to the first item.
Scroll down to the first item.
Yes.
Act one.
What do you, yeah.
What do you see there as far as
podcast colon stuff goes?
Well, I, yeah, I'm looking at the feed,
uh, cause it, it renders as a webpage.
Uh, what am I looking for here?
You view source on that?
I'm view source.
I'm a view source.
Okay.
In the first item, there's a podcast alternate
enclosure.
Oh, I see it.
Oh, how about that?
They are using the alternate enclosure to deliver
multiple bit rates.
Huh?
A high, they have a high quality and
a low quality.
They do.
I see it.
That is killer.
That's very cool.
And I did not.
And they also are using the podcast episode
tag.
Dang Sparky.
Yeah, they're on it, man.
That's cool.
Great.
Go LibriVox.
Nice.
Yeah.
Nice little, a pleasant surprise when you go
digging in the, in the, in the XMLs.
Very pleasant.
Podcast person, William Shakespeare.
Hey, it's valid.
It's valid.
It works.
Uh, where was I?
See, but, but I lost my place.
Oh, Paul.
Yeah.
We're on Polish again.
Okay.
So we got, uh, the ugly quacking us,
Bruce, the ugly quacking duck to, to, to,
to podcast guru of thesis is behind on
my listening.
Therefore behind on my boosts podcasts forever.
Yeah.
And we got the, uh, got the, uh,
common strip blogger.
Yeah.
Come straight blogger 14,250 sats through fountain.
He says, howdy, Adam and Dave.
Today I'd like to recommend a YouTube channel
owned by daily caller.
Just search in YouTube for ask America with
Edgar.
It can't be an audio only podcast because
it features eye candy, like sexy boobalicious ladies.
It's a street interview Muppet show created by
Roger, a former no agenda artist admired by
my Slavic bro Dvorak.
It's like triumph, the insult comic dog, but
with a right wing agenda.
Yes.
CSB.
Yeah.
That thing is pretty funny.
Roger speaking is speaking of commissioner blogger.
I, so I ordered, you know, we're going
on a, uh, backpacking trip in US three
Yosemite next month for our 25th wedding anniversary.
Are you going through camp Curry?
I asked you this before.
I think we're ending our trip in camp.
We're we're putting, we're starting as silver Lake
in Inyo national forest and hiking six days,
about 50 miles over to Yosemite Valley.
And we're going to be landing, so to
speak in Curry village.
And that's another penny.
Every single time you visit Curry village, I
get a penny, you get a penny in
the trust fund.
That's right.
Um, but so I ordered, I ordered this,
uh, sleeping bag.
I needed a 20 degree bag.
And, uh, and the, the bag out orders
from this Polish company called, uh, cumulus.
And they sent me, they sent me an
email.
And let me see if I can find
this email.
The, it was really funny because the email
was all in English, um, except for the
status and the status was, uh, was in
Polish.
And I'm like, I have no idea what
you're talking about here.
Cause it said, um, you're, uh, your order.
Okay.
Here's your order status is colon.
Yeah.
I said, your order number, blah, blah, blah.
Has been updated with the status of the
gong shing Nick.
Oh, it's on its way.
I was like, what does that even mean?
I mean, it was canceled.
I wouldn't like, I don't know what this
word is.
Z a K O N C Z O
N E.
So I'm like, okay, whatever that is.
I hope it gets Z what?
Spell it again.
Z a K O N or the end
with the little, uh, accent sign above it.
Yeah.
C Z O N E.
Oh, you're screwed.
I'm like, it's your order has been updated
with the status of the congestion.
I'm like, okay.
That may, I mean, that could mean that
it blew up mid-flight on its way
over here.
I don't know.
Good news.
It's on its way.
Bad news.
We put it on air India.
I'm sorry.
Um, all right.
We got monthly.
Z a K O N C Z O
N E translates to completed or finished.
Oh, yay.
Okay.
Well, we're all good then.
Well, no, they completed your order.
It doesn't mean they're shipping it out.
It's just, it's thanks for your money.
Yeah.
Thanks.
We're all good.
Thanks.
We're good.
Uh, if, but see, I know somebody in
Poland now, so I can have him go,
you know, kick some butt if necessary.
Um, uh, say we got a Basil Phillip,
$25 Lauren ball, $24 and 20 cents.
Thank you.
Uh, Mitch Downey, $10.
Nice.
Christopher Harbaric, $10.
Terry Keller, $5.
Silicon florist, $10.
Chris Cowan, $5.
Derek J.
Viscar, the best name in podcasting, $21.
Paul Saltzman, $22 and 22 cents every single
time.
And Damon Casajak, $15.
Beautiful.
Thank you so much.
Are those the monthlies or those, the, that's
it.
That's it.
Thank you all.
That's all very much for supporting the podcast
index project with value for value.
Thank you.
Spotify for your support.
Uh, we appreciate that.
Um, we wouldn't mind a couple shekels from
you, but yeah, it's all right.
We'll, we'll keep plugging away.
We're happy.
We're happy to do it.
And thank you.
Shekels to spare.
They're profitable now.
Yeah.
So they say, um, and, uh, thank you
to all the developers and, uh, and hangers
on and everybody who's using this stuff.
Uh, you are all responsible for making this
move forward.
That's how it works.
And I'm, I'm tickled pink and very proud
of everybody.
I think it's fantastic.
And I'm also on the attribution tip right
now.
So, um, if you, uh, if there's a
tag that you contributed significantly to or invented
yourself, um, I'll be digging for that stuff
and putting attributions on the namespace pages.
And so, but if you want to go
ahead and ping me and let me know
that, um, that would make my dig easier.
So feel free to help the sage, dig
the hole, everybody.
And that is it for podcasting 2.0.
Thank you very much boardroom.
Thank you very much, brother.
Dave.
We'll see y'all next week right here
on podcasting 2.0. Cool.
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0.
Visit podcastindex.org for more information.
I'd say just stick it in.