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Podcasting 2.0 for August 15th, 2025, episode

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230, Bacon Polyfill.

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Hello everybody, we are live and lit and

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ready to rock and roll.

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It is time for Podcasting 2.0. That's

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right, everything going on in podcasting.

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Well, everybody's traveling and on vacation, traveling the

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podcast movement.

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No, we're hanging out here at home on

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a Friday.

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We are, in fact, the only boardroom that

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never locks a deprecation discussion.

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I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of

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the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the

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man who can catch any phishing emails from

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Gmail.

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Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones.

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Big, big lungs.

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Yeah.

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Massive pipes.

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I still got him, man.

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I still got him.

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You got, you got, that's a, oh, do

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me a favor.

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Yes.

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On your keyboard, you're on Windows, right?

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Yes.

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On your keyboard, type Windows key.

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Windows.

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Okay, you got, you're going to have to,

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this is a key.

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Oh, key.

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Sequence, you're going to have to hold these

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down.

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Okay, all right, all right, all right.

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All right, Windows key plus control.

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Wait, a plus sign or just control?

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Just control, Windows key, control.

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Yeah, I'm not doing it yet.

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Yeah.

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Okay, Alt.

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Yeah.

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Shift.

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Jeez, yeah.

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You hold all those down and then you

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hit the letter L.

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Now, what do you think that's going to

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do?

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I'm going to do it.

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I mean, if I, will it be the

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show be off the air if I do

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this?

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No, this is not Alt F4.

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No, this is not a reboot.

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Okay, okay.

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So I'd have to hold them down all

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at the same time?

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Yeah, Windows key, control, Alt, shift, and then

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hit the L.

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Okay.

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No, you basically just took me to LinkedIn

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on my browser.

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Yeah, that, LinkedIn, that is in every version

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of Windows.

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Really?

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Baked into the operating system is a hot

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key that takes you, that just opens the

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LinkedIn website.

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That is fake and gay.

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That is not okay.

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That is the grossest use of an operating

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system I've ever seen.

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Wow, wow.

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I could sort of forgive them if it

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was like an M took you to Microsoft's

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website, but LinkedIn?

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Well, don't they own LinkedIn?

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Didn't Microsoft buy LinkedIn?

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Do I have a- Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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they do, but it's a piece of junk

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website.

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I mean, like, it's crap.

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I mean, why not G, why not all

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that and G to open GitHub?

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I mean, they own that too.

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What, GitHub would be a hundred times more

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useful than LinkedIn.

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To be honest, this is not the easiest

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keyboard combo I've ever had in my life.

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You'll only ever open this if the cat

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walks across the keyboard.

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You're never going to open this on purpose,

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but it's still just, it just makes me

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angry.

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I mean, you know- So have you

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tried other, first of all, how'd you hear

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about this?

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It's egregious, it's egregious.

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How'd you hear about this?

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One of my coworkers told me.

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Okay, I'm going to do, I'm going to

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see what happens if I hit G, nothing.

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K, nothing.

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P, nothing.

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L, boom.

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Okay, you want another one?

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You want another one?

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Do the same thing and hit Y.

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Hold on a second, it just opened up

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PowerPoint on why I did that.

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Okay, I do another one, hold on.

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And hit Y.

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Yammer, that's a product that they discontinued.

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They don't even make it anymore.

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Yammer.com.

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They don't even use Yammer anymore and yet

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my operating system has a hot key that

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takes me straight to it.

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That's- You know what I'm going to

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do about it?

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You're going to throw Windows out of your

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entire company.

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I'm going to do nothing.

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Absolutely nothing.

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So- I'm going to get very angry.

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So I've been having all kinds of issues

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with the No Agenda stream.

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Of course, we are lit and live, everybody.

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And we noticed that something was going on

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because part of the Podcasting 2.0 fabulous

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namespace, the podcast namespace, I should say, is

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the lit tag.

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And we have many of the modern podcast

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apps that support it.

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So you get a notification when we go

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live and then boom, you tap it, you're

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listening live in your podcast app.

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It's mind blowing.

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It's mind blowing to witness this.

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Even apps without a backend.

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So you have no excuse.

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That's right.

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And of course, by the same token, thanks

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to the pod ping functionality, when we publish

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the show within 90 seconds, you bam, you

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get a notification it's been published.

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So we've had this problem where our numbers

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were down for the past couple of weeks

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on No Agenda.

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And because we always track that, we do

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a troll count, how many trolls are in

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the troll room, which is a whole different

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chat room from the boardroom, obviously.

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So sometimes- It's like a boardroom, but

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it's all trolls.

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Trolls, yes.

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It's trolls.

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And so the numbers were down by about

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200 on Thursdays and Sundays.

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And by the way, we get up to

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like 22, 24.

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We've had almost 4,000 at one point.

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I think that was the day after the

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Trump assassination.

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We had 4,000 people.

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What are they going to say?

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Well, I don't know.

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So anyway, so it's been down about 200,

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Alex.

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And then people start sending me bug reports.

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Now, your typical bug report from a typical

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user is as follows.

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The stream doesn't work.

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So that's usually how it starts.

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Yeah, what does a bug report from a

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troll look like though?

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Yeah, there's different ones usually.

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You're always talking about those modern podcasts after

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they don't work.

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Okay, that's a troll.

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Yeah, that's a troll.

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And so, you know, so of course I

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try to debug this.

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And I first noticed there was a correlation

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between people using iPhones and AT&T.

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So, you know, because I'd say, hey, trucks,

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they're like, you know, it doesn't work on

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Podverse and Fountain, Castamatic.

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Well, I say what network?

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The first thing I think is we've been

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blocked somewhere.

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That's kind of the first thing.

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Like, this is a network block.

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And so I try to determine, is it

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AT&T?

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And there seems to be a high correlation

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with AT&T mobile server.

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So they will try it on Wi-Fi.

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People say, oh, it works fine on Wi

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-Fi.

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But then the same people would come back

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later and say, well, it suddenly worked on,

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didn't work on Wi-Fi.

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And now it seems to work on AT

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&T.

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And so now I'm kind of digging around.

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Luckily, we have a lot of people.

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So I'm still focusing on iPhones.

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I was like, maybe Apple changed something.

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Wouldn't surprise me.

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So I'm trying to figure out, is that

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it?

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And then finally, it's actually Rocky Thomas who

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sends me a screenshot, Rocky Smart.

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And she sends me- I saw this

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email, yes.

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Yes, she sends me a screenshot of Fountain

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and it has an actual error message in

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Fountain which has some clues.

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And then- Look at Fountain giving us

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the print debug.

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This is awesome.

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That was pretty good.

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Like, yes, this is helpful.

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And then we dig a little bit deeper

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and it appears that some people are experiencing

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a cert issue, a certification error.

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I'm like, that's really strange because we definitely

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have certs running.

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I mean, I'm seeing it here.

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These are not uncertified people.

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These are people experiencing a certification issue.

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Well, some of them may have been uncertified

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as well, but yes, they're experiencing a certification

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issue.

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And then I hear from other people, no,

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it's happening on Android.

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So we're digging and I'm working with Void

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Zero.

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We're digging and digging and digging.

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And then all of a sudden I'm like,

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I think it might be this.

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What do you think the error was?

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Why was it sporadic and really happening more?

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If someone couldn't get it on Wi-Fi,

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they typically couldn't get it on Wi-Fi.

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But on cell phones, sometimes it would work

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and sometimes they'd get a cert issue.

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Just like, this is not a safe stream.

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So an SSL error, basically.

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I mean, the first thing that pops into

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my head is that the certs have a

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thing called an SAN name where you can

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attach a secondary name to it.

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And like naming of the certs have to

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usually match the URL that the cert's being

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delivered from.

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As I would think that my first guess

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would be that this is some sort of

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name mismatch between what the browser thinks the

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stream is and what the cert says it

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should be.

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Well, already, I don't know if, because I

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explained this yesterday on no agenda.

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So I'm just going to presume that Daniel

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J.

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Lewis and Eric PP are honest people and

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they didn't hear the explanation yesterday, but you're

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correct.

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The V host was misconfigured on IPv6.

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So if you happen to spin up your

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phone and it got an IPv6 versus IPv4,

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then you got a certification error.

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Right, because the certificate name, the name in

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the certificate, it's a head fake because the

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name in the certificate is pointing to, it

278
00:09:30,250 --> 00:09:31,790
has a host name attached to it.

279
00:09:31,950 --> 00:09:35,910
And there was no quad A record for

280
00:09:35,910 --> 00:09:37,330
an IPv4 address.

281
00:09:37,330 --> 00:09:38,950
Exactly, exactly.

282
00:09:39,690 --> 00:09:42,050
And so, first of all, IPv6 is just

283
00:09:42,050 --> 00:09:44,490
a scourge in my life in general.

284
00:09:44,810 --> 00:09:46,210
It's just a scourge.

285
00:09:46,590 --> 00:09:48,490
Can we just like go back now and

286
00:09:48,490 --> 00:09:49,590
just rip that all out?

287
00:09:49,650 --> 00:09:51,350
Because I mean, it's like- I can't

288
00:09:51,350 --> 00:09:52,810
remember my IP address.

289
00:09:53,410 --> 00:09:56,130
I know, it's like 20 miles long.

290
00:09:56,230 --> 00:09:57,330
Yeah, so, okay.

291
00:09:57,410 --> 00:09:58,450
So we got that fixed.

292
00:09:58,490 --> 00:09:59,690
I'm telling this whole story.

293
00:09:59,750 --> 00:10:00,810
I'm proud of myself.

294
00:10:00,970 --> 00:10:02,870
I'm like, my troll numbers will be up.

295
00:10:02,910 --> 00:10:03,830
It's going to be great.

296
00:10:04,350 --> 00:10:06,010
And then we do the troll count.

297
00:10:06,010 --> 00:10:07,530
We have a little counting mechanism.

298
00:10:07,730 --> 00:10:08,810
Cotton gin, I think, threw together.

299
00:10:08,890 --> 00:10:10,190
Somebody threw it together, I think so.

300
00:10:10,730 --> 00:10:13,150
And then you get the peak number of

301
00:10:13,150 --> 00:10:13,530
listeners.

302
00:10:14,390 --> 00:10:15,030
And it's low.

303
00:10:15,150 --> 00:10:17,030
I'm like, why is this low?

304
00:10:17,790 --> 00:10:18,550
Well, guess what?

305
00:10:18,790 --> 00:10:21,530
I was so jacked up about being able

306
00:10:21,530 --> 00:10:23,930
to talk about this story that I completely

307
00:10:23,930 --> 00:10:25,690
forgot to send out the bat signal.

308
00:10:29,850 --> 00:10:32,490
So I never pinged all of those modern

309
00:10:32,490 --> 00:10:34,550
podcast apps that were going live.

310
00:10:34,550 --> 00:10:36,990
You almost forgot to send the bat signal

311
00:10:36,990 --> 00:10:38,190
before we were live today.

312
00:10:38,390 --> 00:10:38,830
I know, I know, I know.

313
00:10:39,030 --> 00:10:40,710
I've got to say, I need to vibe

314
00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:41,750
code a script for that.

315
00:10:42,190 --> 00:10:43,030
So it punches me in the face.

316
00:10:43,610 --> 00:10:45,170
You're developing a bad habit.

317
00:10:45,290 --> 00:10:46,370
You got to nip it in the bud.

318
00:10:48,890 --> 00:10:50,590
Yes, you're right.

319
00:10:51,390 --> 00:10:54,050
You know, it's like, your dog's probably like

320
00:10:54,050 --> 00:10:54,330
mine.

321
00:10:55,470 --> 00:10:59,130
If you ever do something twice, suddenly that's

322
00:10:59,130 --> 00:11:00,730
the way everything's going to be from now

323
00:11:00,730 --> 00:11:03,610
on until the end of time, you know?

324
00:11:03,610 --> 00:11:06,010
Like if you change the walk time, like

325
00:11:06,010 --> 00:11:09,230
one day to some other time, the next

326
00:11:09,230 --> 00:11:11,410
day it's like, okay, this is the new

327
00:11:11,410 --> 00:11:11,790
time.

328
00:11:12,190 --> 00:11:13,030
Forever friend.

329
00:11:13,490 --> 00:11:15,830
No, my dog's not like that.

330
00:11:15,890 --> 00:11:18,210
My dog is just laying down all day

331
00:11:18,210 --> 00:11:18,650
long.

332
00:11:20,950 --> 00:11:23,450
This dog will literally go 18 hours.

333
00:11:23,810 --> 00:11:25,110
And just sit there and like, I'm fine,

334
00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:25,830
but I'm okay.

335
00:11:26,490 --> 00:11:26,590
Yeah.

336
00:11:26,810 --> 00:11:27,330
It's like, whatever.

337
00:11:27,490 --> 00:11:28,330
Oh, we're going to go out now?

338
00:11:28,390 --> 00:11:29,250
Okay, I'll go.

339
00:11:29,410 --> 00:11:29,910
That's fine.

340
00:11:30,610 --> 00:11:32,270
How hot is it in Texas right now?

341
00:11:32,890 --> 00:11:34,590
Well, we have summer now.

342
00:11:35,270 --> 00:11:39,310
We've had the coolest summer in, gosh, as

343
00:11:39,310 --> 00:11:40,790
long as I can remember.

344
00:11:41,470 --> 00:11:44,370
Temperature right now in the Hill Country is

345
00:11:44,370 --> 00:11:47,030
89, which is nice for us.

346
00:11:47,090 --> 00:11:48,250
God, that's not bad at all.

347
00:11:48,270 --> 00:11:48,670
That's nice.

348
00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:50,250
And we've had a couple of, we have

349
00:11:50,250 --> 00:11:52,450
not hit triple digits this year at all.

350
00:11:53,230 --> 00:11:55,810
So it's been beautiful, beautiful for us.

351
00:11:55,990 --> 00:11:56,590
Good for you.

352
00:11:57,370 --> 00:11:58,010
Go ahead.

353
00:11:58,510 --> 00:12:00,410
Yeah, we're 89 here, but our heat index

354
00:12:00,410 --> 00:12:01,070
is 105.

355
00:12:01,930 --> 00:12:03,270
It's so humid.

356
00:12:03,510 --> 00:12:04,050
Oh, heat index meeting.

357
00:12:04,330 --> 00:12:06,350
That's like, you know, feels like.

358
00:12:06,630 --> 00:12:07,010
Come on.

359
00:12:07,650 --> 00:12:10,830
Yeah, because it's the humidity is like off

360
00:12:10,830 --> 00:12:11,430
the chart.

361
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:13,130
How do they measure that?

362
00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:14,610
How do they know what it feels like?

363
00:12:14,650 --> 00:12:17,130
Do you know what 104 feels like?

364
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:20,090
I do know what 104 feels like.

365
00:12:20,130 --> 00:12:20,890
If I put you in- In ambient

366
00:12:20,890 --> 00:12:21,430
air temperature.

367
00:12:21,510 --> 00:12:25,130
If I put you in an oven, which

368
00:12:25,130 --> 00:12:26,530
would be a tasty snack.

369
00:12:27,070 --> 00:12:28,950
If I put you in an oven at

370
00:12:28,950 --> 00:12:32,350
93, would you know the difference between 93

371
00:12:32,350 --> 00:12:33,010
and 104?

372
00:12:34,450 --> 00:12:35,970
I think I would know the difference.

373
00:12:36,210 --> 00:12:38,210
I would not know the difference between like

374
00:12:38,210 --> 00:12:39,570
93 and 97.

375
00:12:39,970 --> 00:12:41,550
I think I would know the difference between

376
00:12:41,550 --> 00:12:43,030
93 and 104.

377
00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:45,530
That's a pretty big difference.

378
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:48,490
And why do we even feel bad over

379
00:12:48,490 --> 00:12:49,770
98.6?

380
00:12:49,950 --> 00:12:51,430
I mean, isn't that just our temperature?

381
00:12:52,110 --> 00:12:54,550
What's your humidity there in Fredericksburg?

382
00:12:55,290 --> 00:12:58,690
It's always very low, or typically very low.

383
00:12:58,690 --> 00:13:00,630
Yeah, because we're up high.

384
00:13:01,030 --> 00:13:02,810
It's 70% here.

385
00:13:03,210 --> 00:13:04,790
It's like you walk out and you have,

386
00:13:07,390 --> 00:13:09,910
within 30 seconds of walking out the door,

387
00:13:10,010 --> 00:13:11,270
you just have swamp butt.

388
00:13:11,510 --> 00:13:15,510
I mean, you're just dripping in sweat.

389
00:13:15,970 --> 00:13:16,910
Oh, it's the worst.

390
00:13:17,510 --> 00:13:20,930
Well, I'm indoors more now because I'm a

391
00:13:20,930 --> 00:13:21,770
coder now, man.

392
00:13:21,790 --> 00:13:22,490
I'm just coding.

393
00:13:23,250 --> 00:13:24,290
Man, you're on fire.

394
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:26,970
I'm whipping up stuff.

395
00:13:26,970 --> 00:13:27,670
You're on fire.

396
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:30,850
Yeah, you're texting me stuff like, hey, I

397
00:13:30,850 --> 00:13:31,730
got a new API.

398
00:13:32,050 --> 00:13:32,650
Oh, I'm sorry.

399
00:13:32,850 --> 00:13:33,150
I'm sorry.

400
00:13:33,510 --> 00:13:34,150
I don't know how that happened.

401
00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:34,770
He 33'd me.

402
00:13:35,270 --> 00:13:36,810
You're like, hey man, I got a new

403
00:13:36,810 --> 00:13:37,090
API.

404
00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:37,890
I'm like, what?

405
00:13:39,290 --> 00:13:40,710
I did, I had an API.

406
00:13:41,550 --> 00:13:42,690
This is a whole new Adam.

407
00:13:43,330 --> 00:13:44,130
This is great.

408
00:13:44,390 --> 00:13:44,930
I love it.

409
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:47,030
I can't believe I actually made an API.

410
00:13:48,330 --> 00:13:49,310
Yeah, it was great.

411
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:50,310
I liked the new Adam.

412
00:13:50,630 --> 00:13:51,170
This is awesome.

413
00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:53,850
I'm doing some, right now, I'm doing some

414
00:13:53,850 --> 00:13:54,250
cool stuff.

415
00:13:54,250 --> 00:13:57,930
So I'm connecting Dropbox to an FTP server.

416
00:14:00,190 --> 00:14:01,030
This is cool.

417
00:14:01,230 --> 00:14:02,210
And why are you doing this?

418
00:14:03,190 --> 00:14:05,590
Because we have customers, and I want them

419
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:07,530
to be able to manage something on an

420
00:14:07,530 --> 00:14:10,930
FTP server files by dragging them in or

421
00:14:10,930 --> 00:14:13,150
dragging them out, but not have to deal

422
00:14:13,150 --> 00:14:14,210
with an FTP client.

423
00:14:14,370 --> 00:14:15,810
I want them to use something that they

424
00:14:15,810 --> 00:14:16,410
understand.

425
00:14:16,510 --> 00:14:17,690
Oh, Dropbox, I get it.

426
00:14:19,070 --> 00:14:26,640
Okay, so you are using Dropbox as API

427
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,080
to do this?

428
00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:32,180
No, no, there's, it turns out there's actually

429
00:14:32,180 --> 00:14:34,760
a little widget wadget.

430
00:14:35,020 --> 00:14:39,140
It's called, what is it called now?

431
00:14:39,780 --> 00:14:41,580
I think it's called Maelstra.

432
00:14:42,620 --> 00:14:43,980
I think is what it's called.

433
00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:45,900
I don't even know what that is.

434
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,240
Yeah, well, it's a little service.

435
00:14:48,860 --> 00:14:50,480
I mean, you can, because I didn't want

436
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,760
to have my entire, let me see, hold

437
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:54,100
on a second.

438
00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:55,720
Let me tell you what it's called.

439
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,880
Yeah, Maelstra, M-A-E-S-T-R

440
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:08,560
-A-L.

441
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,560
It's a pip, it's a pip.

442
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,260
So you install this thing and then it

443
00:15:15,260 --> 00:15:17,100
gives you an authentication code and then you

444
00:15:17,100 --> 00:15:21,420
can set up one directory in Dropbox and

445
00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:23,720
then you can have other things, as many

446
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,020
directories underneath that and it synchronizes it with

447
00:15:27,020 --> 00:15:28,540
a headless Linux box.

448
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,120
Which is kind of cool.

449
00:15:31,660 --> 00:15:33,600
You set it up within three seconds, you

450
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:34,440
know, it just works.

451
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,200
By itself, a handy thing to have.

452
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:38,840
Runs as a service.

453
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,980
And- Okay, so you're, so this is

454
00:15:41,980 --> 00:15:44,240
going to be something that the customer would

455
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:44,840
have to install.

456
00:15:45,220 --> 00:15:46,620
No, the customer just- Maestro.

457
00:15:46,940 --> 00:15:47,720
No, no, no, no, no, no.

458
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,820
The customer just gets a Dropbox invite.

459
00:15:51,580 --> 00:15:52,580
So they're like, oh, okay.

460
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:53,920
And then you can use it on your,

461
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,500
in your browser or most people have Dropbox.

462
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,420
Okay, so you're, okay, you're manipulating this, you're

463
00:16:01,420 --> 00:16:06,100
using this Maestro, I really don't like the

464
00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:06,760
name of this product.

465
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,800
It's okay, I'm not a hater.

466
00:16:10,940 --> 00:16:11,500
Free.

467
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:12,860
It's so hard to say.

468
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,740
Maestro, Maestro, Maestro.

469
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:22,740
Using Maestro to just as a client and

470
00:16:22,740 --> 00:16:25,060
then it will interact with the Dropbox API.

471
00:16:25,220 --> 00:16:25,560
Correct.

472
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:26,660
Yes, exactly.

473
00:16:27,820 --> 00:16:28,420
Yes.

474
00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:35,960
Okay, and so you're inviting the customer into

475
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,820
a Dropbox account.

476
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:38,760
A Dropbox share.

477
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:40,360
Yeah, just a single folder.

478
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:41,800
Okay.

479
00:16:43,830 --> 00:16:45,190
You sound so negative.

480
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:47,670
No, I'm not.

481
00:16:49,450 --> 00:16:52,730
The first thing I think about, see, I'm

482
00:16:52,730 --> 00:16:56,630
a, you may not, you know, you surely

483
00:16:56,630 --> 00:16:57,610
know this about me.

484
00:16:58,110 --> 00:16:59,730
You're thinking, where can it break?

485
00:17:00,290 --> 00:17:01,110
Yes, exactly.

486
00:17:01,330 --> 00:17:05,270
I'm a software cynic to all, I mean,

487
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:08,109
down to my, the very blood in my

488
00:17:08,109 --> 00:17:08,530
veins.

489
00:17:08,670 --> 00:17:09,349
Yeah, yeah.

490
00:17:09,430 --> 00:17:12,890
I expect all of every, I expect any,

491
00:17:13,150 --> 00:17:18,230
I expect any company to rope you into

492
00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:20,109
an API and then rug pull you.

493
00:17:20,609 --> 00:17:25,410
It's like, I just know, I'm convinced of

494
00:17:25,410 --> 00:17:25,530
it.

495
00:17:25,609 --> 00:17:27,450
Dropbox has been around for a long time

496
00:17:27,450 --> 00:17:27,650
though.

497
00:17:29,050 --> 00:17:30,710
So I trust them.

498
00:17:30,990 --> 00:17:31,870
I kind of trust them.

499
00:17:33,490 --> 00:17:38,450
And this little widget is, Dropbox themselves also

500
00:17:38,450 --> 00:17:42,090
have a Linux client, but if you want

501
00:17:42,090 --> 00:17:45,570
to start it up in just one directory,

502
00:17:45,810 --> 00:17:47,430
you basically have to start it and then

503
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:49,810
start excluding folders really quickly.

504
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:53,070
Well, my Dropbox, I have gigabytes of crap

505
00:17:53,070 --> 00:17:53,350
in there.

506
00:17:53,410 --> 00:17:54,950
It's the last thing I want, is for

507
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:57,110
that to start, you know, to just start

508
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:58,630
filling up.

509
00:17:58,870 --> 00:18:01,610
So this is just one directory, click, boom,

510
00:18:01,670 --> 00:18:01,850
done.

511
00:18:02,290 --> 00:18:04,590
And then so whenever the customer drags something

512
00:18:04,590 --> 00:18:08,250
into their subfolder of that folder, then it

513
00:18:08,250 --> 00:18:12,550
automatically updates these files on an FTP server

514
00:18:12,550 --> 00:18:14,270
for play out, which is a whole nother

515
00:18:14,270 --> 00:18:14,610
story.

516
00:18:15,390 --> 00:18:16,010
Right, right, right.

517
00:18:16,670 --> 00:18:20,170
So, but what you built the other day,

518
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:25,130
and this is a broader topic within podcasting,

519
00:18:25,150 --> 00:18:28,770
specifically Lit, is you built a proxy for

520
00:18:28,770 --> 00:18:29,330
metadata.

521
00:18:30,010 --> 00:18:33,690
Yeah, so it turns out that any type

522
00:18:33,690 --> 00:18:36,190
of web client has a lot of trouble

523
00:18:36,190 --> 00:18:42,030
doing metadata from a stream, at least the

524
00:18:42,030 --> 00:18:44,550
players that are out there, unless you want

525
00:18:44,550 --> 00:18:47,190
to go, I mean, you can speak more

526
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:49,450
to that because when I said, hey, can

527
00:18:49,450 --> 00:18:53,010
we have metadata in these web players for

528
00:18:53,010 --> 00:18:53,490
podcasts?

529
00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:58,670
You're like, oh, oh, after six weeks.

530
00:18:59,190 --> 00:19:01,350
I did exactly that, that's exactly what I

531
00:19:01,350 --> 00:19:01,450
did.

532
00:19:01,450 --> 00:19:03,210
I got to rip the whole player apart,

533
00:19:03,310 --> 00:19:04,710
all the code has to come out.

534
00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:08,130
Oh, yeah, we can do it, but ah.

535
00:19:08,530 --> 00:19:10,570
Yeah, I did lay it on thick.

536
00:19:10,730 --> 00:19:13,290
I did lay it on thick, I'll take

537
00:19:13,290 --> 00:19:13,970
it, I'll take it.

538
00:19:13,970 --> 00:19:18,270
So I'm like, oh man, because that's actually

539
00:19:18,270 --> 00:19:20,830
a thing that a lot of these crap

540
00:19:20,830 --> 00:19:24,510
companies, that's app companies who are rapper apps,

541
00:19:25,550 --> 00:19:28,870
they call them crap companies, which a lot

542
00:19:28,870 --> 00:19:31,750
of radio stations and a lot of churches

543
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:34,770
use them, and so they have all kinds

544
00:19:34,770 --> 00:19:36,750
of player stuff, but if you just have

545
00:19:36,750 --> 00:19:40,750
something playing in a PWA that's in the

546
00:19:40,750 --> 00:19:42,750
app, and a lot of them can't even

547
00:19:42,750 --> 00:19:43,390
do that.

548
00:19:43,390 --> 00:19:45,970
Some of them have just no metadata on

549
00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:46,890
their players.

550
00:19:47,310 --> 00:19:48,870
They just gave up on it.

551
00:19:49,150 --> 00:19:51,170
Like, yeah, but here's your giving page.

552
00:19:51,950 --> 00:19:52,510
You know, okay.

553
00:19:54,370 --> 00:19:56,470
Here's the page that lists all the staff.

554
00:19:56,810 --> 00:19:59,590
Here's your staff page, here's your on-air

555
00:19:59,590 --> 00:20:00,190
schedule.

556
00:20:01,470 --> 00:20:04,410
Can we just say like, if you're a

557
00:20:04,410 --> 00:20:06,770
radio station, I just want to offer a

558
00:20:06,770 --> 00:20:07,390
word of advice.

559
00:20:08,110 --> 00:20:10,030
Nobody's going to your website to see your

560
00:20:10,030 --> 00:20:13,210
staff or like your mailing address.

561
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:14,870
They just want to listen.

562
00:20:14,970 --> 00:20:15,890
Or to your app, yeah.

563
00:20:16,270 --> 00:20:17,650
They just want to listen to your radio

564
00:20:17,650 --> 00:20:17,910
station.

565
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:22,310
Well, that's just inherent radio stuff, and some

566
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:24,630
people are very, very, very in tune with

567
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:25,810
what you and I are talking about, and

568
00:20:25,810 --> 00:20:28,450
a lot not, but they'll come around eventually,

569
00:20:28,550 --> 00:20:28,810
I hope.

570
00:20:29,470 --> 00:20:32,130
So I'm like, oh man, I wish there

571
00:20:32,130 --> 00:20:33,670
was a way that we could do this.

572
00:20:34,790 --> 00:20:37,210
And so I start tinkering around and like,

573
00:20:37,210 --> 00:20:41,230
well, this IC data, this ICY data, I'm

574
00:20:41,230 --> 00:20:43,310
sure I'm telling Cotton Gin nothing new here,

575
00:20:44,350 --> 00:20:47,470
is pretty standard across all radio streams.

576
00:20:48,750 --> 00:20:51,330
And so it's about a 16 kilobit stream

577
00:20:51,330 --> 00:20:53,590
that comes out of the stream, and when

578
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:55,330
the metadata changes, you can pull it right

579
00:20:55,330 --> 00:20:55,670
out of there.

580
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:57,050
I'm like, okay, that's kind of handy.

581
00:20:57,610 --> 00:20:59,150
So what can I do with this?

582
00:20:59,170 --> 00:21:00,990
And I decide to build a proxy.

583
00:21:01,550 --> 00:21:05,110
So when you hit the proxy, it immediately

584
00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:08,870
starts up the stream that you requested, keeps

585
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:12,070
it running for 60 seconds, and writes the

586
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:13,910
metadata to a JSON file.

587
00:21:14,010 --> 00:21:14,890
There you go, Daniel J.

588
00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:15,910
Lewis, I'm in your camp.

589
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:18,470
Writes it to a JSON file, which then

590
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:20,250
is returned through the API.

591
00:21:20,830 --> 00:21:22,310
And that, of course, you can put into

592
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:22,750
anything.

593
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:24,670
You can put it into, you can put

594
00:21:24,670 --> 00:21:26,090
it in an iframe, for all I care.

595
00:21:26,530 --> 00:21:27,950
So you can put it anywhere on the

596
00:21:27,950 --> 00:21:28,410
page.

597
00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:29,750
It doesn't just have to be in a

598
00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:31,770
player that happens to have this functionality.

599
00:21:31,770 --> 00:21:35,410
And every subsequent request for that, if there's

600
00:21:35,410 --> 00:21:38,170
100 people listening, just comes from a very

601
00:21:38,170 --> 00:21:40,190
lightweight API from the cached file.

602
00:21:40,490 --> 00:21:45,430
And then once a minute, it updates the

603
00:21:45,430 --> 00:21:48,630
metadata on, I think, actually, I think I

604
00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:49,270
did 30 seconds.

605
00:21:49,630 --> 00:21:53,110
If there's no subsequent request within five seconds,

606
00:21:53,150 --> 00:21:55,730
then it stops the stream, deletes the cache.

607
00:21:56,170 --> 00:21:57,210
And I built that.

608
00:22:00,050 --> 00:22:03,290
Man, high five, virtual high five, buddy.

609
00:22:04,450 --> 00:22:07,610
I'm kind of happy with that.

610
00:22:08,290 --> 00:22:10,730
I'm, because the first thing I said was,

611
00:22:10,790 --> 00:22:11,590
you know, we're going to need some kind

612
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:11,990
of caching.

613
00:22:12,130 --> 00:22:13,510
We don't want to spend, spending up like

614
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:16,090
20 streams for 20 lists or something.

615
00:22:16,170 --> 00:22:17,130
And you're like, I'm on it.

616
00:22:17,290 --> 00:22:19,550
And then like 30 minutes later, you're like,

617
00:22:19,610 --> 00:22:19,830
done.

618
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:24,010
Yeah, it's, and I've kind of figured out

619
00:22:24,010 --> 00:22:25,710
how to do this with Grok.

620
00:22:26,290 --> 00:22:28,090
So I've settled on Grok.

621
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:31,410
And the trick with Grok is, first of

622
00:22:31,410 --> 00:22:33,690
all, all that stuff, all the AI stuff

623
00:22:33,690 --> 00:22:35,230
in Grok, it's all built on Python.

624
00:22:35,230 --> 00:22:36,990
So don't even try doing anything else.

625
00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:38,130
Just use Python.

626
00:22:39,030 --> 00:22:40,390
It understands Python.

627
00:22:40,650 --> 00:22:41,830
It's built on Python.

628
00:22:42,330 --> 00:22:44,510
It really knows a lot about Python.

629
00:22:44,850 --> 00:22:47,830
And of course, it's reasonably good at syntax.

630
00:22:48,090 --> 00:22:50,750
So it's rare that it writes a script

631
00:22:50,750 --> 00:22:52,190
where the syntax is incorrect.

632
00:22:52,190 --> 00:22:53,190
But it happens.

633
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:56,070
It happens where, you know, curly brace, not

634
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:58,810
close, you know, use something that doesn't exist.

635
00:22:58,930 --> 00:22:59,110
Okay.

636
00:22:59,710 --> 00:23:00,630
So I can get- It's rare that

637
00:23:00,630 --> 00:23:02,690
it gets syntax wrong.

638
00:23:03,130 --> 00:23:05,410
It's very common that it just makes up

639
00:23:05,410 --> 00:23:07,930
function calls in libraries and APIs that don't

640
00:23:07,930 --> 00:23:08,330
exist.

641
00:23:08,450 --> 00:23:10,870
You have to be extremely explicit.

642
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:12,750
And the best way to do it is

643
00:23:12,750 --> 00:23:14,370
just think modularly.

644
00:23:14,530 --> 00:23:16,030
So you build something.

645
00:23:16,150 --> 00:23:18,470
It'll usually come up with, because I write

646
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:19,030
everything out.

647
00:23:19,090 --> 00:23:20,010
Here's what I want it to do.

648
00:23:20,010 --> 00:23:22,010
Then I put that into the prompt.

649
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:24,210
It'll come up with, you know, it makes

650
00:23:24,210 --> 00:23:24,730
decisions.

651
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:25,830
It comes up with something.

652
00:23:26,030 --> 00:23:27,690
Usually it's pretty close, but I take a

653
00:23:27,690 --> 00:23:28,890
small bit of it.

654
00:23:29,010 --> 00:23:30,990
This is the core functionality.

655
00:23:31,530 --> 00:23:33,110
And then you build that out.

656
00:23:33,310 --> 00:23:35,190
You might add one or two things on

657
00:23:35,630 --> 00:23:39,630
and then immediately start a new conversation and

658
00:23:39,630 --> 00:23:42,390
say, evaluate this script, understand what it does.

659
00:23:42,490 --> 00:23:44,030
Here's what I want to add to it.

660
00:23:44,530 --> 00:23:45,230
When you do that- Okay, so you're

661
00:23:45,230 --> 00:23:47,350
wiping it's memory and storing it for-

662
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:49,630
If you let it keep memory, that's where

663
00:23:49,630 --> 00:23:50,530
it all goes wrong.

664
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:52,150
And then, you know, as I've said before,

665
00:23:52,150 --> 00:23:55,070
you wind up with a suggestion to recompile

666
00:23:55,070 --> 00:23:56,930
your kernel because it's all your fault.

667
00:23:59,330 --> 00:24:00,950
Which is the best thing ever.

668
00:24:01,250 --> 00:24:03,570
I love that that's what happens.

669
00:24:03,710 --> 00:24:04,590
That's so great.

670
00:24:04,810 --> 00:24:07,570
But if you don't understand what you're doing,

671
00:24:07,650 --> 00:24:08,610
you'll never get there.

672
00:24:08,830 --> 00:24:10,570
There's just, if you don't, I mean, I

673
00:24:10,570 --> 00:24:15,930
have, I mean, I have arguably 25 years

674
00:24:15,930 --> 00:24:18,050
of, well, more than that since the nineties.

675
00:24:18,570 --> 00:24:19,190
So what is that?

676
00:24:19,270 --> 00:24:21,930
Nineties, it was like 30 plus years of

677
00:24:21,930 --> 00:24:25,310
experience looking at code, understanding how things fit

678
00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:27,570
together and what things are possible.

679
00:24:28,050 --> 00:24:30,290
And I, going all the way back to

680
00:24:30,290 --> 00:24:35,130
my Radio Shack 101 projects breadboard, I understand

681
00:24:35,130 --> 00:24:37,190
how you can link things together, right?

682
00:24:37,250 --> 00:24:38,110
But well, I can link it.

683
00:24:38,250 --> 00:24:39,910
And that's almost like, I've been always been

684
00:24:39,910 --> 00:24:41,570
kind of good at command line pipe.

685
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:42,950
You know, I was like, oh, I can

686
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:44,890
pipe this out into that, into that, into

687
00:24:44,890 --> 00:24:45,190
that.

688
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:46,650
And then I can get something that works.

689
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:49,650
If you have those concepts down, you can

690
00:24:49,650 --> 00:24:51,670
actually make something functional.

691
00:24:52,530 --> 00:24:55,530
And you still have to, you know, ask

692
00:24:55,530 --> 00:24:56,730
for verbose logging.

693
00:24:57,330 --> 00:24:59,250
And, you know, cause I, so with the

694
00:24:59,250 --> 00:25:01,490
FTP part of this, it wasn't getting the

695
00:25:01,490 --> 00:25:02,170
FTP, right?

696
00:25:02,210 --> 00:25:03,850
And I'm like, what are you trying to

697
00:25:03,850 --> 00:25:04,010
do?

698
00:25:04,050 --> 00:25:04,770
Let me take a look.

699
00:25:04,790 --> 00:25:08,250
And I see that it's using FTP commands

700
00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:11,430
that don't exist in the FTP server that

701
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:12,010
I'm using.

702
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:13,350
It's like, oh, okay.

703
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:16,550
So it's just assuming that this FTP server

704
00:25:16,550 --> 00:25:19,510
is of this, this build and has this

705
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:21,350
functionality, but it doesn't.

706
00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:23,150
So you do have to really sleuth.

707
00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:24,730
It's not going to find that stuff out

708
00:25:24,730 --> 00:25:25,050
for you.

709
00:25:25,090 --> 00:25:26,850
It's going to say, let's try something different.

710
00:25:26,970 --> 00:25:29,230
Like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

711
00:25:29,290 --> 00:25:29,770
So.

712
00:25:30,090 --> 00:25:32,830
And it's important to realize why this all

713
00:25:32,830 --> 00:25:33,630
is necessary.

714
00:25:33,930 --> 00:25:38,390
And cause you, why can you not, why

715
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:42,750
can you not just get the, the metadata

716
00:25:42,750 --> 00:25:45,250
and when we say metadata, what we're talking

717
00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:47,450
about is the name of, at the most

718
00:25:47,450 --> 00:25:49,650
fundamental level, we're talking about the name of

719
00:25:49,650 --> 00:25:53,390
the, of the content that is currently playing,

720
00:25:53,490 --> 00:25:55,290
be that a song or a podcast or

721
00:25:55,290 --> 00:25:55,450
something.

722
00:25:55,570 --> 00:25:59,090
Which is typically encoded in the file that's

723
00:25:59,090 --> 00:25:59,650
being played.

724
00:25:59,690 --> 00:26:00,970
Not always, but typically.

725
00:26:01,790 --> 00:26:02,050
Yeah.

726
00:26:02,450 --> 00:26:04,970
So you, so what you want, if you're

727
00:26:04,970 --> 00:26:07,190
listening to a live stream is, whenever the

728
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:12,870
live streams switches from like one episode or

729
00:26:12,870 --> 00:26:15,370
one track to another, you want it to

730
00:26:15,370 --> 00:26:17,710
switch, you want it to tell you what

731
00:26:17,710 --> 00:26:19,190
the title of that new thing is.

732
00:26:19,570 --> 00:26:22,690
And, you know, other stuff, if it's got

733
00:26:22,690 --> 00:26:24,190
it like artist and that kind of thing.

734
00:26:24,530 --> 00:26:26,770
So that, so the question is, how do

735
00:26:26,770 --> 00:26:27,410
you do that?

736
00:26:28,510 --> 00:26:31,930
And there's very, there's various different ways and

737
00:26:31,930 --> 00:26:36,110
different live stream, live streaming servers do it

738
00:26:36,110 --> 00:26:36,730
in different ways.

739
00:26:36,810 --> 00:26:38,710
Some just have a metadata file, it's an

740
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:43,190
XML file that you, that's just published to

741
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:45,770
the side and it's updating that file every

742
00:26:45,770 --> 00:26:49,950
time it updates, which is actually wonderful because

743
00:26:49,950 --> 00:26:51,490
then you don't have, you can just make

744
00:26:51,490 --> 00:26:52,770
calls to it, you don't have to worry

745
00:26:52,770 --> 00:26:53,430
about it.

746
00:26:53,570 --> 00:26:58,790
But what most, all streams do is what

747
00:26:58,790 --> 00:27:01,110
you're talking about is they use this ICY

748
00:27:01,110 --> 00:27:01,650
metadata.

749
00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:06,110
And that metadata delivery is encoded in the

750
00:27:06,110 --> 00:27:07,650
MP3 stream itself.

751
00:27:07,650 --> 00:27:07,950
Right.

752
00:27:08,590 --> 00:27:11,210
And so every frame, I think it's like,

753
00:27:12,450 --> 00:27:14,930
you can set the interval, but every so

754
00:27:14,930 --> 00:27:17,870
many frames, it will deliver the string of

755
00:27:17,870 --> 00:27:18,930
what's currently playing.

756
00:27:19,070 --> 00:27:19,250
Right.

757
00:27:20,110 --> 00:27:24,690
And then, so the problem with this is

758
00:27:26,250 --> 00:27:29,450
you have to, you can only handle this

759
00:27:29,450 --> 00:27:31,210
two ways.

760
00:27:32,270 --> 00:27:35,950
Build your own MP3 decoder.

761
00:27:41,410 --> 00:27:44,330
And that only gets you part of the

762
00:27:44,330 --> 00:27:47,670
way there because the HTML native audio decoder

763
00:27:47,670 --> 00:27:49,290
does not do this for you.

764
00:27:50,460 --> 00:27:53,290
But then even if you do that, you're

765
00:27:53,290 --> 00:27:57,590
still going to run into the biggest hurdle,

766
00:27:59,250 --> 00:28:02,950
which is CORS.

767
00:28:03,650 --> 00:28:04,230
Yes.

768
00:28:04,470 --> 00:28:04,810
C-O-R-S.

769
00:28:04,890 --> 00:28:07,130
Right, which is why I had to do

770
00:28:07,130 --> 00:28:08,970
it because you really have to run, just

771
00:28:08,970 --> 00:28:10,530
grab the stream itself.

772
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:14,470
You can, well, you're better explaining that, I

773
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:14,710
guess.

774
00:28:15,230 --> 00:28:17,270
Well, Cotton Jen said, I watch for the

775
00:28:17,270 --> 00:28:17,930
ICY metadata.

776
00:28:18,050 --> 00:28:19,350
And when I see it, I fetch the

777
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:21,290
JSON file on the IceCast server and parse

778
00:28:21,290 --> 00:28:21,530
that.

779
00:28:23,010 --> 00:28:27,050
A lot of servers don't publish that file.

780
00:28:27,150 --> 00:28:27,490
Right.

781
00:28:28,290 --> 00:28:29,870
Like that's the problem.

782
00:28:30,210 --> 00:28:33,990
So like when you have to, so in

783
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:39,110
order to get the stream to give you

784
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:44,310
the ICY metadata encoded, you have to send

785
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:48,710
a header to it called ICY metadata with

786
00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:49,630
a value of one.

787
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:51,490
You have to send that HTTP header.

788
00:28:52,370 --> 00:28:55,270
Otherwise it won't give you back the metadata.

789
00:28:55,470 --> 00:28:57,350
So you have to specifically request it.

790
00:28:58,790 --> 00:29:03,210
And the problem is, even if the streaming

791
00:29:03,210 --> 00:29:08,890
server supports CORS, cross-origin resource sharing, most

792
00:29:08,890 --> 00:29:11,910
of the time they do not put that

793
00:29:11,910 --> 00:29:14,130
header in the allowed CORS list.

794
00:29:14,610 --> 00:29:15,430
Exactly, exactly.

795
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:19,230
So even if you can stream it, which

796
00:29:19,230 --> 00:29:22,690
browsers can do audio natively and violate CORS.

797
00:29:22,810 --> 00:29:26,110
That's a built-in like acceptable violation of

798
00:29:26,110 --> 00:29:26,510
CORS.

799
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:28,970
When as soon as you try to fetch

800
00:29:28,970 --> 00:29:32,350
the stream with that header, boom, you're blocked.

801
00:29:32,650 --> 00:29:32,770
Right.

802
00:29:33,030 --> 00:29:35,030
So you have to use a server.

803
00:29:35,310 --> 00:29:43,970
So I'm using the Python libraries, urllib.parse

804
00:29:43,970 --> 00:29:48,670
and set the user agent as Winamp slash

805
00:29:48,670 --> 00:29:52,330
5.666. I don't know why that is,

806
00:29:52,330 --> 00:29:56,910
but so that combo using that with that

807
00:29:56,910 --> 00:29:59,330
user agent, the streams always go, oh, hey,

808
00:29:59,570 --> 00:30:00,730
okay, here you go.

809
00:30:00,910 --> 00:30:02,790
And so then I just strip out, looking

810
00:30:02,790 --> 00:30:05,070
for the headers, ICY dash metadata.

811
00:30:06,930 --> 00:30:07,610
And there it is.

812
00:30:07,670 --> 00:30:10,390
And it just, the script is remarkably small.

813
00:30:11,670 --> 00:30:14,450
I mean, if it's 50 lines, it's a

814
00:30:14,450 --> 00:30:14,710
lot.

815
00:30:15,790 --> 00:30:17,250
I don't understand.

816
00:30:22,260 --> 00:30:25,480
You know, I guess I just don't understand

817
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,620
why you would publish an ICAST stream and

818
00:30:29,620 --> 00:30:35,660
not allow the metadata to be delivered through,

819
00:30:36,060 --> 00:30:37,980
you know, not make a CORS exception.

820
00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:42,920
It doesn't, I can't believe, it would be

821
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,480
one thing if you have like a one

822
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:44,880
-off, okay?

823
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,780
It's like somebody's just winging it in their

824
00:30:46,780 --> 00:30:47,180
basement.

825
00:30:47,620 --> 00:30:49,680
Like me, like me, basically.

826
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,580
And they fire up, you know, they're winging

827
00:30:53,580 --> 00:30:54,880
it in their basement and they fire up

828
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,740
an ICAST server to stream their audio collection

829
00:30:57,740 --> 00:30:58,220
or whatever.

830
00:30:58,740 --> 00:30:59,600
Okay, that's fine.

831
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,520
But if you're like a big streaming platform

832
00:31:05,410 --> 00:31:07,820
that serves radio clients and this kind of

833
00:31:07,820 --> 00:31:09,800
thing, why do you not know this?

834
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,440
I mean, I don't get it.

835
00:31:12,660 --> 00:31:16,980
Well, I would say because in general, radio

836
00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:22,240
stations have their version of digital is a

837
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,220
checkbox item.

838
00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:26,240
We've got a live now, listen now, button

839
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,520
on the website, we're good to go.

840
00:31:31,620 --> 00:31:33,980
No thinking out of the box, very much

841
00:31:33,980 --> 00:31:36,620
like RSS was just, here's what it does.

842
00:31:36,780 --> 00:31:38,280
That's all it can ever do.

843
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,260
You know, it's just not creative.

844
00:31:42,340 --> 00:31:44,520
And so now we're getting creative when we

845
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,560
run into all these different little nuances and

846
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:48,040
issues.

847
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,260
Anyway, I can't wait for you to put

848
00:31:51,260 --> 00:31:52,060
that into our player.

849
00:31:52,060 --> 00:31:53,000
When's that happening?

850
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,760
Maybe tomorrow, maybe tomorrow.

851
00:31:58,380 --> 00:31:59,980
I love you, Dave Jones.

852
00:32:00,460 --> 00:32:02,460
That's actually not, so the way that, it's

853
00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:05,000
actually not that hard because the way you

854
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,100
have it now with the proxy, I just

855
00:32:09,100 --> 00:32:10,520
have to do a fetch to the proxy

856
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,980
in the background fetch to the proxy every

857
00:32:12,980 --> 00:32:14,960
15 seconds or so.

858
00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:16,820
Do it every five, man, it's fine.

859
00:32:17,180 --> 00:32:18,320
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

860
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:19,840
Yeah, it doesn't matter.

861
00:32:19,980 --> 00:32:20,780
You're very confident.

862
00:32:20,780 --> 00:32:22,800
You're very confident in your- Oh, yeah.

863
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,820
What is this running on, by the way?

864
00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:27,880
This is running on a eight gig Linode.

865
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,720
Is this the same box as the channel

866
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:31,140
stream server?

867
00:32:31,140 --> 00:32:32,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all good, man.

868
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,420
Don't do that, no.

869
00:32:34,740 --> 00:32:35,080
Yes, it's fine.

870
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,280
No, you have to have separation of concerns.

871
00:32:38,820 --> 00:32:42,600
Don't run multiple, first rule of sysadmin, man,

872
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,200
don't run multiple services on the same box.

873
00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:47,340
Do not, don't do it.

874
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:48,040
Okay.

875
00:32:48,060 --> 00:32:49,420
You have to spin up a five buck

876
00:32:49,420 --> 00:32:52,960
Linode and just a Nanode and- Do

877
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:53,320
it there?

878
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:54,000
Okay.

879
00:32:54,220 --> 00:32:54,340
Yeah.

880
00:32:54,420 --> 00:32:55,280
All right.

881
00:32:55,380 --> 00:32:56,880
Well, I'll, here, I...

882
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:03,280
You must do this, Adam, because what's going

883
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,540
to happen is something in the proxy script

884
00:33:06,540 --> 00:33:07,680
is going to go nuts.

885
00:33:07,980 --> 00:33:09,300
It's going to break in a way you

886
00:33:09,300 --> 00:33:10,860
don't expect and it's going to take all

887
00:33:10,860 --> 00:33:12,300
the other stuff down with it.

888
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:12,940
See?

889
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:13,340
Okay.

890
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,260
Because that's what happened with Snap when you

891
00:33:16,260 --> 00:33:17,660
installed the, what was it?

892
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:18,460
Yeah, right.

893
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,160
Snap, well, there were other reasons that things

894
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,240
were going awry, including a zombie player, but

895
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:26,520
that's a different- That may be-

896
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:27,020
That's a different story.

897
00:33:27,020 --> 00:33:29,000
That may be the only time in history

898
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,800
that the term, oh, Snap, was actually accurate.

899
00:33:32,780 --> 00:33:33,220
Okay.

900
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,000
So I will set it up on the

901
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,840
Linode, which means now I got to like

902
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,620
install Nginx and do all that stuff.

903
00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:41,980
That's the stuff that is most daunting.

904
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,120
It's like, oh, I got to set up

905
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,480
the reverse proxy and the certificate.

906
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,780
And that's the stuff that is just annoying.

907
00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:50,100
Everything else is pretty easy.

908
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,300
Well, see, once we move stuff over to

909
00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:57,580
the main account, the main Linode account, we

910
00:33:57,580 --> 00:33:59,300
can just stick all that stuff behind Cloudflare

911
00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:00,420
and then you don't even have to need,

912
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:01,760
they'll do certificates for you.

913
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:02,800
You don't have to do that anymore.

914
00:34:02,980 --> 00:34:03,400
Oh, really?

915
00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:04,440
Yeah.

916
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,340
Oh, that's kind of cool.

917
00:34:06,940 --> 00:34:07,380
Oh, yeah.

918
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:08,840
Well, how about this?

919
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,760
Why don't you set up a Linode box

920
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:12,280
for me?

921
00:34:13,380 --> 00:34:13,860
Oh, okay.

922
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:14,980
I'll do it.

923
00:34:15,260 --> 00:34:19,239
Set up the Nginx, because I do need

924
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:19,900
a web server.

925
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,560
And then I'll move everything over there.

926
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,179
I'll give you a handoff.

927
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:26,600
Yeah.

928
00:34:27,020 --> 00:34:27,620
Oh, cool.

929
00:34:27,940 --> 00:34:28,900
Thank you.

930
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:31,620
Because that, honestly, that's the stuff that took

931
00:34:31,620 --> 00:34:33,860
me a day to finally get my, you

932
00:34:33,860 --> 00:34:36,120
know, it's like, well, just use Sidecar, whatever

933
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,040
that thing is called.

934
00:34:38,739 --> 00:34:40,400
What is that thing called?

935
00:34:40,659 --> 00:34:42,139
I don't know what you're talking about.

936
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,360
There was a suggestion from the Caddy.

937
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:47,260
That's it, thank you.

938
00:34:47,260 --> 00:34:47,739
Caddy.

939
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:48,920
Caddy?

940
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,480
Just use Caddy, it's easy.

941
00:34:51,100 --> 00:34:52,280
Well, no.

942
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,100
Caddy was like, well, are you using this

943
00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:57,020
kind of certificate?

944
00:34:57,340 --> 00:34:58,040
Are you using this?

945
00:34:58,300 --> 00:34:59,780
Are you using a modern thing?

946
00:35:00,980 --> 00:35:04,400
So I just went reverse proxy Nginx.

947
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:05,200
Good to go.

948
00:35:05,420 --> 00:35:05,740
Boom.

949
00:35:07,980 --> 00:35:08,200
Yeah.

950
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,920
Docker, you know, Docker's the way to go

951
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:13,600
for a lot of this stuff.

952
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,440
But I mean, it's like, you don't, when

953
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,620
it's a small single purpose thing like this,

954
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,820
you don't really, I mean, taking the time

955
00:35:20,820 --> 00:35:22,380
to build a Docker container and all that

956
00:35:22,380 --> 00:35:23,940
stuff, I mean, it's almost not even worth

957
00:35:23,940 --> 00:35:24,300
it.

958
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:26,280
No, be careful what you say.

959
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,720
You're going to get the Docker maxis on

960
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:30,900
you.

961
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:32,420
Docker's everything.

962
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:33,780
It's the best, it's the best.

963
00:35:34,140 --> 00:35:36,280
I use Docker a lot these days.

964
00:35:36,460 --> 00:35:37,580
You know, in the last few years, I've

965
00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:39,600
really, my use of Docker has really gone

966
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,840
up, but I still, there's just times I

967
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,320
don't, it's just not worth it.

968
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,880
Because it's only worth it to me to

969
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,080
go to Docker, a full Docker build out,

970
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,580
if you have, if you're going to invest

971
00:35:52,580 --> 00:35:55,600
the time to also go like CD, you

972
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,560
know, CD, you know, a full pipeline where

973
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,860
you push to your GitHub repo and a

974
00:36:02,860 --> 00:36:04,800
GitHub action kicks in and builds the Docker

975
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,020
container and deploys it.

976
00:36:06,220 --> 00:36:08,340
Like that constant, if you're going to a

977
00:36:08,340 --> 00:36:11,540
constant deployment scenario, like to me, it makes

978
00:36:11,540 --> 00:36:13,720
sense where, because, but otherwise you have to

979
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,280
go through and run the commands and rebuild

980
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:17,840
the Docker container and push it up to

981
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,560
get to Docker hub and all this stuff.

982
00:36:19,660 --> 00:36:22,060
And it's like, well, it's so much easier

983
00:36:22,060 --> 00:36:24,680
to run it in like a, you know,

984
00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:27,920
run it in like a screen, a disconnected

985
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,060
screen or something.

986
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:30,000
I mean, like it's not.

987
00:36:30,620 --> 00:36:32,620
Oh, what do we call it?

988
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,720
I forgot what that's called.

989
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:35,680
Yeah.

990
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:37,840
TMUX.

991
00:36:38,180 --> 00:36:39,880
TMUX, TMUX, yeah, TMUX.

992
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:40,240
Yeah.

993
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,300
I was using TMUX for a lot until

994
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:44,040
I figured out, it's probably easier to do

995
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,340
a system service.

996
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,420
I'm Mr. System CTL now.

997
00:36:49,220 --> 00:36:50,400
Oh, you're all about system data.

998
00:36:51,060 --> 00:36:51,180
Oh, yeah.

999
00:36:51,460 --> 00:36:52,520
Oh, I love that.

1000
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,120
Well, you don't like that?

1001
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:54,760
That's no good?

1002
00:36:55,060 --> 00:36:56,200
No, no, it's good.

1003
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:57,920
No, it's the modern, you know, it's the

1004
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,080
modern way, I guess.

1005
00:36:59,740 --> 00:37:00,560
I love it.

1006
00:37:00,620 --> 00:37:01,960
It's like, oh, set it up and then

1007
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,120
you can get a status, you can restart

1008
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:04,600
it.

1009
00:37:04,660 --> 00:37:06,040
I mean, oh, that's fantastic.

1010
00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:09,000
Forever in a day, I will never be

1011
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,900
able to stop typing dot slash ETC init

1012
00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:15,600
dot D slash the name of the service

1013
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:16,520
space start.

1014
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,380
Like, I can't make myself do the system

1015
00:37:19,380 --> 00:37:20,440
control.

1016
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,560
Pseudo system control restart service.

1017
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,500
Yeah, I cannot get it in my head

1018
00:37:27,500 --> 00:37:29,520
because they kept backwards compatibility.

1019
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:30,500
It doesn't matter.

1020
00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:31,720
And the old way still works, I just

1021
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:32,460
keep doing it.

1022
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:33,200
You just do the old way.

1023
00:37:33,780 --> 00:37:35,820
Yeah, it's like, I still type to open

1024
00:37:35,820 --> 00:37:37,400
the nano editor.

1025
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,880
Oh, interesting.

1026
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,200
Oh, I'm VI.

1027
00:37:40,420 --> 00:37:41,280
I'm a VI guy.

1028
00:37:41,420 --> 00:37:42,500
I've always been a VI guy.

1029
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:44,620
I'm not a, I can't do VI.

1030
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,660
You only need a couple of commands, dollar

1031
00:37:46,660 --> 00:37:48,500
sign to get to the end, A to

1032
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:51,780
append, you know, you don't, I for insert,

1033
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,700
escape key is your friend, unless you're on

1034
00:37:54,700 --> 00:37:55,460
a MacBook.

1035
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,040
My muscle memory for things like control forward

1036
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,720
slash to jump to a certain line number

1037
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:04,180
and control W for search is so strong.

1038
00:38:04,180 --> 00:38:06,400
See, but I never got into Vim.

1039
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:07,820
It was like, it may be the same

1040
00:38:07,820 --> 00:38:08,100
thing.

1041
00:38:08,180 --> 00:38:08,520
I don't know.

1042
00:38:08,780 --> 00:38:09,420
I thought they were the same.

1043
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,380
I type VI and it just works.

1044
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:12,340
I don't want Vim.

1045
00:38:12,700 --> 00:38:17,800
Vim is a Dutch cleaning product.

1046
00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:20,700
Okay, that's funny.

1047
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,260
Vim is like Ajax, you know, abrasive cleaning

1048
00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:24,780
product.

1049
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,120
But yeah, if you set up the Linode,

1050
00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:29,220
it's literally one Python script.

1051
00:38:29,380 --> 00:38:32,520
So I'll be able to install all the

1052
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:32,860
pips.

1053
00:38:33,260 --> 00:38:35,220
I'll do Gladys and the pips, then I'll

1054
00:38:35,220 --> 00:38:36,980
set it up and it should work.

1055
00:38:37,260 --> 00:38:38,340
That's awesome, man.

1056
00:38:38,660 --> 00:38:39,400
I'm so excited.

1057
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:40,740
I'm very excited about this.

1058
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,260
Yeah, I'll do it and I'll send it

1059
00:38:42,260 --> 00:38:42,440
to you.

1060
00:38:42,740 --> 00:38:43,560
Okay, cool.

1061
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:44,340
Well, there we go.

1062
00:38:44,460 --> 00:38:45,580
That's it everybody, good show.

1063
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:46,180
Thanks for coming.

1064
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:47,040
That was fantastic.

1065
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,100
I do have a gripe.

1066
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:51,800
I got a gripe, I got a gripe.

1067
00:38:52,180 --> 00:38:53,100
I hope it's not about me.

1068
00:38:53,260 --> 00:38:54,300
No, it's not about you.

1069
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:55,240
It's about Daniel J.

1070
00:38:55,380 --> 00:38:55,640
Lewis.

1071
00:38:57,180 --> 00:38:58,340
Cool, I'm glad he's here.

1072
00:38:58,580 --> 00:38:58,940
Yes.

1073
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,000
I'm almost not interested in your secret podcast

1074
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:05,960
service anymore.

1075
00:39:06,100 --> 00:39:08,860
You've been teasing it for a week now.

1076
00:39:09,180 --> 00:39:09,740
Look at this.

1077
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,880
Can you find the Easter egg I dropped?

1078
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:13,380
Whoa, what could this be?

1079
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,840
Why does mine have more stuff than the

1080
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:16,420
other people?

1081
00:39:16,820 --> 00:39:18,420
Show me the money.

1082
00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:20,600
Show me what you got, man.

1083
00:39:21,340 --> 00:39:23,060
It's too much teasing.

1084
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,080
Just, yeah, put up or shut up.

1085
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,920
Yeah, I almost don't want to know anymore.

1086
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,060
Oh, okay.

1087
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,500
You know, it can only disappoint at this.

1088
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,760
I mean, this thing is supposed to wash

1089
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,460
my car while I'm doing a podcast.

1090
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,060
I don't know what it does.

1091
00:39:39,740 --> 00:39:40,980
What is it though?

1092
00:39:41,060 --> 00:39:42,000
Do we even know what it is?

1093
00:39:42,020 --> 00:39:43,400
No, we don't know what it is.

1094
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:45,700
We don't know what it is.

1095
00:39:46,540 --> 00:39:48,460
You gotta know when to stop selling and

1096
00:39:48,460 --> 00:39:49,160
close the deal.

1097
00:39:49,260 --> 00:39:51,520
Yeah, and he's like, look at this podcast

1098
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:52,100
episode.

1099
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:54,200
I left my calling card.

1100
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:55,780
I'm like, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh.

1101
00:39:56,540 --> 00:39:56,720
Eh.

1102
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,720
Yeah, Sir Spencer, I'm sorry for, I don't

1103
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:03,280
know why Spencer's feed just deleted itself.

1104
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:04,200
I don't know why.

1105
00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:06,100
Oh, this is not good.

1106
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,580
I restored it, but yeah, I don't know.

1107
00:40:07,700 --> 00:40:10,740
Did you ever figure out, let's see, did

1108
00:40:10,740 --> 00:40:12,560
we ever figure out if it had like

1109
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:13,980
a block tag in it or something?

1110
00:40:14,020 --> 00:40:14,960
This is not good.

1111
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,240
I just, ungovernable misfits still works.

1112
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:24,060
That bug, I've been keeping an eye on

1113
00:40:24,060 --> 00:40:24,480
that thing.

1114
00:40:24,780 --> 00:40:27,100
So I had a question though about the

1115
00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:32,060
index, party time, crawling, updating stuff.

1116
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:33,240
Okay.

1117
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,120
So I have a yet another vibe coded

1118
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,560
little Rube Goldberg machine here.

1119
00:40:38,940 --> 00:40:41,480
And it would add an episode to a

1120
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,000
feed on my server that would upload the

1121
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,240
episode and then it would upload the feed.

1122
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,960
And once I was pretty sure that I

1123
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,760
had all the right elements, and by the

1124
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,620
way, another fun thing, just from stupidity of

1125
00:40:54,620 --> 00:40:57,460
the so-called AI, where I said, look,

1126
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,380
just add a new element.

1127
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,560
Here's what the elements look like in the

1128
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:02,220
new item.

1129
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:03,540
Here's what the item looks like.

1130
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,020
Just add this, change the pub date, change

1131
00:41:08,020 --> 00:41:14,240
the, obviously change the enclosure URL, change the

1132
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:16,520
title, all this stuff, which is kind of

1133
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:16,700
cool.

1134
00:41:16,700 --> 00:41:18,940
I got that to pull it out of,

1135
00:41:18,980 --> 00:41:21,400
with FFmpeg, pull out the title from the

1136
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:21,880
metadata.

1137
00:41:22,220 --> 00:41:23,320
It's pretty cool stuff.

1138
00:41:24,540 --> 00:41:27,460
And then it would sit there and it

1139
00:41:27,460 --> 00:41:29,900
just wouldn't get parsed by the podcast index.

1140
00:41:30,100 --> 00:41:33,580
And it was no problem for me to

1141
00:41:33,580 --> 00:41:37,200
initiate a scan manually, but I was kind

1142
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,380
of interested just in how, now I just

1143
00:41:40,380 --> 00:41:42,040
have it with a pod ping, but I

1144
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,040
was interested in when the index would see

1145
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:45,160
it.

1146
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,240
It's a daily episode, a daily show.

1147
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,600
And I mean, it would go beyond 24

1148
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,120
hours, even with priority set at five, and

1149
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:54,920
it wouldn't hit it.

1150
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,720
Is there some, how does the index know,

1151
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,560
or does it not know for those sad

1152
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:01,880
people without pod ping?

1153
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,580
How does it get a daily sweep?

1154
00:42:10,340 --> 00:42:10,820
Oh.

1155
00:42:10,820 --> 00:42:11,040
Oh.

1156
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:15,400
You're, see, I, okay.

1157
00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:21,040
I misunderstood what you were saying when we

1158
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,510
were texting is, are you saying that it

1159
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:28,210
wasn't getting pulled at all?

1160
00:42:28,350 --> 00:42:29,950
No, it wasn't, it wasn't getting, I saw

1161
00:42:29,950 --> 00:42:30,110
it.

1162
00:42:30,330 --> 00:42:33,790
So I'd, before I added pod ping, I

1163
00:42:33,790 --> 00:42:36,030
would upload it, it would upload at 3

1164
00:42:36,030 --> 00:42:40,470
a.m. And I had priority for scan

1165
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:45,230
at five, and then it would be like

1166
00:42:45,230 --> 00:42:48,010
10 a.m. I'd go look, and it's

1167
00:42:48,010 --> 00:42:50,830
like, and I'd see in the podcast index,

1168
00:42:51,170 --> 00:42:53,790
in the api.podcastingindex.org, I'd see that

1169
00:42:53,790 --> 00:42:56,110
it had not been scanned since 8 p

1170
00:42:56,110 --> 00:42:59,290
.m., by 8 a.m. the previous day.

1171
00:42:59,330 --> 00:43:01,890
So it had gone full 24 hours without

1172
00:43:01,890 --> 00:43:02,690
scanning it.

1173
00:43:04,090 --> 00:43:06,230
Okay, so you, okay, that, I miss, I

1174
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:07,890
was misunderstanding what you were saying in your

1175
00:43:07,890 --> 00:43:08,110
text.

1176
00:43:08,190 --> 00:43:09,230
I thought you were saying that it was

1177
00:43:09,230 --> 00:43:11,270
not, it was scanning, but not pulling in

1178
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:11,890
the new episodes.

1179
00:43:15,710 --> 00:43:17,190
I don't know, I mean, I don't.

1180
00:43:17,970 --> 00:43:20,350
I made sure that the GUIDs were different

1181
00:43:20,350 --> 00:43:22,090
on the, well, I wouldn't even pull it

1182
00:43:22,090 --> 00:43:23,290
in if the GUID was the same.

1183
00:43:24,030 --> 00:43:25,770
But if I hit a manual scan, it

1184
00:43:25,770 --> 00:43:26,490
would work fine.

1185
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:28,230
And then I made sure that the modified

1186
00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:30,030
date was changed and everything.

1187
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:34,030
Wait, now, you know, we look at a

1188
00:43:34,030 --> 00:43:37,390
few different things to determine whether or not

1189
00:43:37,390 --> 00:43:38,490
to scan the feed.

1190
00:43:40,990 --> 00:43:45,390
And we try, like, we try not to

1191
00:43:45,390 --> 00:43:47,930
pull it if it doesn't need to be.

1192
00:43:48,110 --> 00:43:49,870
And so one of the things, the two

1193
00:43:49,870 --> 00:43:52,870
is last modified date in the HTTP header

1194
00:43:53,750 --> 00:43:55,270
and the ETAG.

1195
00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:56,830
Ooh, ETAG.

1196
00:43:57,870 --> 00:43:59,770
And so if you, if the ETAG.

1197
00:43:59,790 --> 00:44:00,690
What's the ETAG?

1198
00:44:02,410 --> 00:44:05,170
ETAG is a HTTP response header.

1199
00:44:05,950 --> 00:44:07,550
They get sent along.

1200
00:44:07,870 --> 00:44:10,110
It's just, it's usually just a hash.

1201
00:44:10,170 --> 00:44:12,490
It can be any value, but it's usually

1202
00:44:12,490 --> 00:44:14,250
just a hash, some sort of a hash

1203
00:44:14,250 --> 00:44:15,850
of some of the content or something like

1204
00:44:15,850 --> 00:44:18,510
that, just to give you some indication of

1205
00:44:18,510 --> 00:44:21,670
whether the content has changed since the last

1206
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:22,710
time that you pulled it.

1207
00:44:22,990 --> 00:44:25,430
That should be automatic on any server though,

1208
00:44:25,470 --> 00:44:25,710
right?

1209
00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:27,650
No, not necessarily.

1210
00:44:28,170 --> 00:44:31,010
Where are these files living?

1211
00:44:31,410 --> 00:44:33,730
mp3.nashownotes.com.

1212
00:44:33,790 --> 00:44:35,730
So it's on the kind of the main

1213
00:44:35,730 --> 00:44:37,870
no agenda hosting service.

1214
00:44:38,590 --> 00:44:39,350
Yeah, right, right.

1215
00:44:42,330 --> 00:44:44,530
Is there any caching or anything that's happening

1216
00:44:44,530 --> 00:44:44,830
there?

1217
00:44:47,630 --> 00:44:51,490
Though minimal, because, you know, before Podping, it

1218
00:44:51,490 --> 00:44:56,030
would take about 20 minutes before an RSS

1219
00:44:56,030 --> 00:44:57,370
feed updated from there.

1220
00:44:57,370 --> 00:44:59,190
If you recall, but it would get it

1221
00:44:59,190 --> 00:45:01,490
within 20 minutes to 25 minutes.

1222
00:45:01,610 --> 00:45:05,390
So that was before Void Zero changed whatever

1223
00:45:05,390 --> 00:45:06,690
caching was happening.

1224
00:45:08,010 --> 00:45:09,470
So I don't think so.

1225
00:45:10,850 --> 00:45:12,450
I don't know, man.

1226
00:45:13,090 --> 00:45:14,510
I don't know.

1227
00:45:14,690 --> 00:45:17,370
I'll have to dig into it and see

1228
00:45:17,370 --> 00:45:20,870
why, but that's my only thought is just

1229
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:26,150
if there's some, the reason we use both,

1230
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:27,550
let me just look and see if this,

1231
00:45:27,690 --> 00:45:28,570
what's the name of the?

1232
00:45:28,810 --> 00:45:29,430
You know what I'm going to do?

1233
00:45:29,570 --> 00:45:36,770
I'm going to paste this into the boardroom

1234
00:45:36,770 --> 00:45:39,590
so people much smarter than me can also

1235
00:45:39,590 --> 00:45:40,650
take a look at it.

1236
00:45:41,290 --> 00:45:42,410
So here it is.

1237
00:45:42,750 --> 00:45:46,190
It does not have an XSLT attached to

1238
00:45:46,190 --> 00:45:46,390
it.

1239
00:45:46,670 --> 00:45:47,250
Just letting you know.

1240
00:45:47,690 --> 00:45:49,110
You're not even going to know what to

1241
00:45:49,110 --> 00:45:49,410
do.

1242
00:45:51,210 --> 00:45:52,610
So that's the feed.

1243
00:45:53,010 --> 00:45:53,790
That's the feed.

1244
00:45:54,510 --> 00:45:59,710
And so I diligently changed the pub date

1245
00:45:59,710 --> 00:46:01,110
in the channel.

1246
00:46:04,650 --> 00:46:06,690
It's got an e-tag, so that's good.

1247
00:46:07,170 --> 00:46:09,130
And it's also publishing last modified.

1248
00:46:13,210 --> 00:46:14,350
Man, I don't know how to look.

1249
00:46:14,650 --> 00:46:17,310
And it's fine because, you know, pod ping,

1250
00:46:17,730 --> 00:46:19,050
man, that's so beautiful.

1251
00:46:20,590 --> 00:46:22,130
Especially what is that?

1252
00:46:22,130 --> 00:46:25,590
The index has an endpoint for it.

1253
00:46:26,510 --> 00:46:27,570
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1254
00:46:27,590 --> 00:46:28,430
You can just use the hub.

1255
00:46:28,810 --> 00:46:30,010
That's fantastic.

1256
00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:37,130
But this podcast is in Godcaster too, right?

1257
00:46:37,150 --> 00:46:37,450
Yes.

1258
00:46:37,770 --> 00:46:40,030
So it should be polling from there is

1259
00:46:40,030 --> 00:46:40,470
what I thought.

1260
00:46:40,670 --> 00:46:43,610
Yeah, it should be force polling that automatically

1261
00:46:43,610 --> 00:46:44,510
from that side.

1262
00:46:44,670 --> 00:46:46,530
Something else may be borked.

1263
00:46:47,670 --> 00:46:48,990
I'll have to look at it, man.

1264
00:46:49,350 --> 00:46:50,390
I'll find out.

1265
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:54,090
Well, I'm only bringing it up because, again,

1266
00:46:54,210 --> 00:46:56,330
for me, it's fine because I just put

1267
00:46:56,330 --> 00:46:57,750
the pod ping into my script.

1268
00:46:57,970 --> 00:46:59,970
So, you know, it's like, boom, updates, beautiful.

1269
00:47:01,590 --> 00:47:04,130
But there may be other edge cases like

1270
00:47:04,130 --> 00:47:04,750
me.

1271
00:47:05,010 --> 00:47:06,590
They're like, how come it's not updating?

1272
00:47:06,690 --> 00:47:07,470
Then we get an email.

1273
00:47:07,610 --> 00:47:08,990
My podcast is not updating.

1274
00:47:09,230 --> 00:47:11,330
It's about the, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1275
00:47:12,330 --> 00:47:14,450
Spencer says, something I've always wondered is pub

1276
00:47:14,450 --> 00:47:16,370
date is the first time it was published

1277
00:47:16,370 --> 00:47:18,730
and last build date is the latest update,

1278
00:47:18,770 --> 00:47:18,930
right?

1279
00:47:18,990 --> 00:47:19,470
So, nope.

1280
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:24,430
Pub date is the latest.

1281
00:47:24,730 --> 00:47:25,090
That's a good question.

1282
00:47:25,810 --> 00:47:27,610
Pub date is the late, if you're talking

1283
00:47:27,610 --> 00:47:28,730
about pub date in the channel.

1284
00:47:28,890 --> 00:47:29,110
Yeah.

1285
00:47:30,210 --> 00:47:31,930
Pub date in the channel is the last

1286
00:47:31,930 --> 00:47:35,490
time content was published to that feed.

1287
00:47:35,650 --> 00:47:39,070
So that should typically pub date matches, the

1288
00:47:39,070 --> 00:47:40,890
pub date in the channel matches the pub

1289
00:47:40,890 --> 00:47:43,170
date in the latest item that was published.

1290
00:47:43,890 --> 00:47:47,810
Last build date is just a timestamp of

1291
00:47:47,810 --> 00:47:49,450
when the feed was built.

1292
00:47:49,450 --> 00:47:52,770
So you could rebuild the feed and there's

1293
00:47:52,770 --> 00:47:53,570
no new content.

1294
00:47:54,490 --> 00:47:57,390
And so that last build date just would

1295
00:47:57,390 --> 00:47:58,210
be the last time.

1296
00:47:58,610 --> 00:48:01,430
And so this is why it's very risky

1297
00:48:01,430 --> 00:48:04,230
to base anything on the last build date

1298
00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:06,410
tag in the channel.

1299
00:48:06,530 --> 00:48:08,110
Yeah, because you may be, yeah.

1300
00:48:08,410 --> 00:48:10,590
Yeah, a lot of times, like Anchor, I

1301
00:48:10,590 --> 00:48:11,810
don't know if they still do this, but

1302
00:48:11,810 --> 00:48:14,830
Anchor used to do this forever is they

1303
00:48:14,830 --> 00:48:18,430
had the last build date value in the

1304
00:48:18,430 --> 00:48:18,890
channel.

1305
00:48:19,730 --> 00:48:21,870
It would change every time you refresh the

1306
00:48:21,870 --> 00:48:24,030
feed if you were in a browser because

1307
00:48:24,030 --> 00:48:25,830
that it was literally building it on the

1308
00:48:25,830 --> 00:48:26,070
fly.

1309
00:48:26,070 --> 00:48:28,990
So to it, it was literally building it

1310
00:48:28,990 --> 00:48:30,190
every time you hit refresh.

1311
00:48:31,070 --> 00:48:32,630
And so it would just give you a

1312
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:35,010
different timestamp every time you hit F5 on

1313
00:48:35,010 --> 00:48:35,510
your keyboard.

1314
00:48:38,170 --> 00:48:42,010
Yeah, so that's, it typically doesn't hurt anything

1315
00:48:42,010 --> 00:48:50,970
because like modern parsers, RSS parsers have to

1316
00:48:50,970 --> 00:48:54,570
be so, they have to be really intelligent

1317
00:48:54,570 --> 00:48:58,730
about detecting a feed change that it's usually

1318
00:48:58,730 --> 00:49:01,010
not, you can't just rely on one thing

1319
00:49:01,010 --> 00:49:01,350
or another.

1320
00:49:01,490 --> 00:49:02,830
You have to look at a lot of

1321
00:49:02,830 --> 00:49:04,890
different things in the feed to make a

1322
00:49:04,890 --> 00:49:08,490
decision about whether or not to pull in

1323
00:49:08,490 --> 00:49:09,050
new content.

1324
00:49:09,350 --> 00:49:10,990
So, I mean, if you get the pub

1325
00:49:10,990 --> 00:49:13,410
date or the last build date wrong, most

1326
00:49:13,410 --> 00:49:14,750
of the time it's not going to be

1327
00:49:14,750 --> 00:49:15,310
a problem.

1328
00:49:17,030 --> 00:49:18,830
But, you know, because as long as you

1329
00:49:18,830 --> 00:49:21,590
have a new item GUID for all your

1330
00:49:21,590 --> 00:49:23,870
stuff and you have a pub date and

1331
00:49:23,870 --> 00:49:25,290
you have a pub date that is not

1332
00:49:25,290 --> 00:49:28,150
future dated, as long as it's now or

1333
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:30,110
in the past, as long as you have

1334
00:49:30,110 --> 00:49:32,410
those two things, it's usually the other, the

1335
00:49:32,410 --> 00:49:34,470
channel level dates are usually not a problem.

1336
00:49:35,370 --> 00:49:37,270
But that's what they're supposed to be according

1337
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:37,890
to the spec.

1338
00:49:39,510 --> 00:49:40,950
Well, see, this is good to know.

1339
00:49:42,910 --> 00:49:47,170
You know, did you see the XSLT discussion?

1340
00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:49,870
Yeah, explain it, because yes, I saw it

1341
00:49:49,870 --> 00:49:52,310
because you and Spurlock were posting about it.

1342
00:49:54,190 --> 00:49:55,990
Yes, and we talked a little bit about

1343
00:49:55,990 --> 00:50:00,610
this last week, you know, and XSLT is

1344
00:50:00,610 --> 00:50:03,930
XML, you know, templating and style language.

1345
00:50:08,490 --> 00:50:11,410
So, the way this whole thing started was

1346
00:50:11,410 --> 00:50:14,790
one of the, in the HTML working group,

1347
00:50:15,690 --> 00:50:19,150
which sort of inherited the HTML spec from

1348
00:50:19,150 --> 00:50:21,090
the W3C.

1349
00:50:21,970 --> 00:50:24,410
I don't know whether you'd call it an

1350
00:50:24,410 --> 00:50:26,410
inheritance or more of a hostile takeover.

1351
00:50:26,570 --> 00:50:27,770
I think it may be more of the

1352
00:50:27,770 --> 00:50:31,910
latter than the former, based on, you know,

1353
00:50:33,090 --> 00:50:34,710
my remembering of history.

1354
00:50:35,050 --> 00:50:40,270
But, so, but what it really, what the

1355
00:50:40,270 --> 00:50:42,250
HTML working group really is, is a bunch

1356
00:50:42,250 --> 00:50:45,070
of browser companies, a bunch of companies that

1357
00:50:45,070 --> 00:50:49,930
make browsers that collaborate and other interested parties

1358
00:50:49,930 --> 00:50:56,870
that collaborate on where to take the HTML

1359
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:59,610
spec and other web oriented specs.

1360
00:51:00,590 --> 00:51:02,030
I don't have a list in front of

1361
00:51:02,030 --> 00:51:02,830
me, but there's a few.

1362
00:51:04,990 --> 00:51:08,870
And so, this is really, this group is

1363
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:15,030
really kind of driven by the same names

1364
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:18,170
that everybody is familiar with and that you

1365
00:51:18,170 --> 00:51:22,530
would expect, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Mozilla, you know,

1366
00:51:22,770 --> 00:51:26,730
Opera, just any browser vendors.

1367
00:51:28,570 --> 00:51:30,970
And, you know, the bigger the company, the

1368
00:51:30,970 --> 00:51:34,750
more, you know, voice they seem, appear to

1369
00:51:34,750 --> 00:51:35,090
get.

1370
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:37,530
And that's, you know, probably hard to avoid

1371
00:51:37,530 --> 00:51:38,150
that happening.

1372
00:51:40,750 --> 00:51:45,170
But, so, somebody from Google popped into the

1373
00:51:45,170 --> 00:51:46,690
group the other day and started a discussion

1374
00:51:46,690 --> 00:51:49,170
a couple of weeks ago, about a week

1375
00:51:49,170 --> 00:51:51,290
and a half ago, saying, should we deprecate

1376
00:51:51,290 --> 00:51:52,670
XSLT?

1377
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:55,910
And like we talked about last week, XSLT

1378
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:59,750
is the templating and styling language that you

1379
00:51:59,750 --> 00:52:04,930
can use to style an XML document in

1380
00:52:04,930 --> 00:52:07,330
the browser so that it looks different or

1381
00:52:07,330 --> 00:52:08,550
operates different.

1382
00:52:09,310 --> 00:52:11,670
It's not just styling, it's also a templating

1383
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:12,070
language.

1384
00:52:12,290 --> 00:52:14,510
So, it does more than just style.

1385
00:52:14,750 --> 00:52:19,090
You can actually modify the resulting content on

1386
00:52:19,090 --> 00:52:19,490
the fly.

1387
00:52:21,250 --> 00:52:24,330
And, you know, what the main argument was,

1388
00:52:24,330 --> 00:52:28,950
was that XSLT, the browsers have brought in

1389
00:52:28,950 --> 00:52:33,570
XSLT libraries, literally called LibXSLT.

1390
00:52:33,830 --> 00:52:36,250
Most of them have defaulted to using this

1391
00:52:36,250 --> 00:52:41,050
old C-based LibXSLT library called LibXSLT.

1392
00:52:42,730 --> 00:52:45,490
And it's got, it's proven to have bugs.

1393
00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:49,670
And the core problem of these security vulnerabilities

1394
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:53,810
that it has is because it is C

1395
00:52:53,810 --> 00:52:58,230
code run, which is not memory safe, running

1396
00:52:58,230 --> 00:53:02,550
in a non-JavaScript context.

1397
00:53:02,890 --> 00:53:06,590
So, the security context is not as tight

1398
00:53:07,050 --> 00:53:09,950
as the JavaScript runtime would be.

1399
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:14,270
So, it's basically like they've just bolted on

1400
00:53:14,270 --> 00:53:18,970
this XML styling library to the browsers.

1401
00:53:19,550 --> 00:53:22,470
And now that library has proven to have

1402
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:23,510
some security problems.

1403
00:53:23,510 --> 00:53:28,890
Which is, you know, hey, that's a problem.

1404
00:53:29,190 --> 00:53:30,690
This problem's gotta be, it's gotta be solved.

1405
00:53:32,650 --> 00:53:37,610
And when they have problems, the browser gets

1406
00:53:37,610 --> 00:53:38,310
blamed for it.

1407
00:53:39,070 --> 00:53:40,990
So, you're gonna have, you know, it's a

1408
00:53:40,990 --> 00:53:41,970
legitimate concern.

1409
00:53:42,570 --> 00:53:47,510
The issue is that, you know, is that,

1410
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:56,350
well, their solution was- Yeah, the proposed

1411
00:53:56,350 --> 00:54:01,910
solution was deprecate LibXSLT.

1412
00:54:02,890 --> 00:54:06,870
So, basically just remove XSLT support altogether from

1413
00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:08,110
the browser code.

1414
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:12,610
And then if you need XSLT, what you

1415
00:54:12,610 --> 00:54:14,650
would need to do is publish an HTML

1416
00:54:14,650 --> 00:54:20,010
page with a XSLT JavaScript polyfill that would

1417
00:54:20,010 --> 00:54:23,410
then load the XML content and run it

1418
00:54:23,410 --> 00:54:25,390
through the JavaScript.

1419
00:54:26,570 --> 00:54:30,750
So, that would bring this XSLT pipeline into

1420
00:54:30,750 --> 00:54:33,210
the security context of the JRE.

1421
00:54:34,270 --> 00:54:37,190
And then that solves the security problems.

1422
00:54:37,810 --> 00:54:41,270
But now you have to publish everything as

1423
00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:43,590
HTML first.

1424
00:54:44,830 --> 00:54:47,510
Oh, well, that's beyond the scope of the

1425
00:54:47,510 --> 00:54:47,950
idea.

1426
00:54:49,290 --> 00:54:51,050
Yeah, so like you would no longer be

1427
00:54:51,050 --> 00:54:53,090
able to just like go to an XML

1428
00:54:53,090 --> 00:54:55,830
doc, like a URL that points directly to

1429
00:54:55,830 --> 00:54:58,390
an XML document and the browser just style

1430
00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:59,210
it for you.

1431
00:54:59,750 --> 00:55:03,810
You would have to go somehow bounce that

1432
00:55:03,810 --> 00:55:06,430
to HTML, then have the HTML page loaded

1433
00:55:06,430 --> 00:55:10,590
in JavaScript and then produce the content.

1434
00:55:12,590 --> 00:55:17,050
And so, this was the, you know, this

1435
00:55:17,050 --> 00:55:19,690
has been the discussion for the last week

1436
00:55:19,690 --> 00:55:20,230
and a half.

1437
00:55:21,230 --> 00:55:23,070
And lots of people on there saying, the

1438
00:55:23,070 --> 00:55:24,890
only people on there saying that they're not

1439
00:55:24,890 --> 00:55:26,610
the only, but most of the people on

1440
00:55:26,610 --> 00:55:28,210
there saying, yeah, yeah, let's deprecate it are

1441
00:55:28,210 --> 00:55:29,290
the other browser vendors.

1442
00:55:30,290 --> 00:55:32,950
Of course, well, it's about to get worse.

1443
00:55:33,830 --> 00:55:35,390
You hear the latest about Chrome?

1444
00:55:36,290 --> 00:55:37,310
No, what is it?

1445
00:55:37,530 --> 00:55:39,450
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that AI

1446
00:55:39,450 --> 00:55:42,970
startup Perplexity is making a surprise $34.5

1447
00:55:42,970 --> 00:55:46,190
billion offer to buy Google's Chrome browser, even

1448
00:55:46,190 --> 00:55:48,390
though Perplexity itself is valued at just $18

1449
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:48,710
billion.

1450
00:55:49,410 --> 00:55:51,830
Now, this unsolicited bid comes as a federal

1451
00:55:51,830 --> 00:55:54,330
judge is weighing right now whether to force

1452
00:55:54,330 --> 00:55:56,830
Google to sell Chrome to loosen its grip

1453
00:55:56,830 --> 00:55:59,410
on web search after that ruling last year

1454
00:55:59,410 --> 00:56:01,430
that the company illegally monopolized the market.

1455
00:56:01,730 --> 00:56:04,250
Now, Perplexity says that major investors are backing

1456
00:56:04,250 --> 00:56:05,470
the deal, that's according to the Wall Street

1457
00:56:05,470 --> 00:56:07,970
Journal report, and it would keep Google as

1458
00:56:07,970 --> 00:56:10,990
Chrome's default search engine while running the browser

1459
00:56:10,990 --> 00:56:11,710
independently.

1460
00:56:12,170 --> 00:56:14,150
Now, Google, which controls more than 60%

1461
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:16,810
of that global browser market, hasn't signaled any

1462
00:56:16,810 --> 00:56:17,750
interest in selling.

1463
00:56:18,310 --> 00:56:20,890
Analysts see a forced sale as unlikely, but

1464
00:56:20,890 --> 00:56:22,930
the offer signals that there's at least one

1465
00:56:22,930 --> 00:56:24,790
willing buyer if the court orders it.

1466
00:56:24,910 --> 00:56:26,850
We're out to both Perplexity and Google, but

1467
00:56:26,850 --> 00:56:28,110
didn't immediately hear back.

1468
00:56:28,750 --> 00:56:29,630
Imagine that.

1469
00:56:30,070 --> 00:56:31,770
Think XSLT is a problem.

1470
00:56:31,910 --> 00:56:34,990
Wait until Perplexity AI is in your browser.

1471
00:56:35,530 --> 00:56:35,950
Seriously.

1472
00:56:36,270 --> 00:56:37,250
That's the last thing.

1473
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:38,610
I know why they want it.

1474
00:56:38,650 --> 00:56:40,350
They're like, give us all your data.

1475
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:41,830
We want to suck it up.

1476
00:56:42,630 --> 00:56:45,030
Oh yeah, they would just pipeline all that

1477
00:56:45,030 --> 00:56:49,870
stuff straight into the AI brain or whatever.

1478
00:56:50,750 --> 00:56:54,350
Training funnel.

1479
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:03,630
So, the people coming back, including me, saying

1480
00:57:03,630 --> 00:57:07,710
we should not be deprecating this because it's

1481
00:57:07,710 --> 00:57:11,050
still got a lot of use cases.

1482
00:57:14,430 --> 00:57:17,430
There's just, it's just kind of, I mean,

1483
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:21,610
there's some cursory things being thrown, some cursory

1484
00:57:21,610 --> 00:57:24,410
responses being made to it, but it's, it

1485
00:57:24,410 --> 00:57:27,130
got to a point where, let's see if

1486
00:57:27,130 --> 00:57:28,230
I can find it.

1487
00:57:30,450 --> 00:57:32,570
Yeah, so the guy, the original poster from

1488
00:57:32,570 --> 00:57:40,650
Google said, I'm trying to find his post.

1489
00:57:41,210 --> 00:57:43,150
Basically, he's trying to boil it all down

1490
00:57:43,150 --> 00:57:45,370
and it felt like he was trying to

1491
00:57:45,370 --> 00:57:46,950
wrap this thread up in a way.

1492
00:57:47,870 --> 00:57:48,710
Here it is.

1493
00:57:51,890 --> 00:57:54,630
See, the reason for this issue in this

1494
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:57,110
discussion is because XSLT that is shipped in

1495
00:57:57,110 --> 00:58:00,150
browsers today is A, very old, B, not

1496
00:58:00,150 --> 00:58:03,790
well maintained across browsers, C, barely used by

1497
00:58:03,790 --> 00:58:06,710
websites, and D, a serious security risk to

1498
00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:07,370
all users.

1499
00:58:10,070 --> 00:58:12,850
So while we, the Chrome team, do understand

1500
00:58:12,850 --> 00:58:15,850
the post suggesting a renewal and improvement instead

1501
00:58:15,850 --> 00:58:19,370
of a removal, what he means is many

1502
00:58:19,370 --> 00:58:21,250
posts saying, hey, why don't you just upgrade

1503
00:58:21,250 --> 00:58:22,890
to a better version of XSLT?

1504
00:58:23,310 --> 00:58:23,430
Right.

1505
00:58:24,270 --> 00:58:26,410
We are strongly convinced that this would not

1506
00:58:26,410 --> 00:58:27,910
be the right way to spend our limited

1507
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:28,470
resources.

1508
00:58:28,930 --> 00:58:34,110
Now, the beginning of this post was, the

1509
00:58:34,110 --> 00:58:37,150
post is literally titled, should we remove XSLT

1510
00:58:37,150 --> 00:58:37,350
from the library?

1511
00:58:37,350 --> 00:58:38,050
From the web platform.

1512
00:58:38,550 --> 00:58:40,370
And now what he's saying is we, the

1513
00:58:40,370 --> 00:58:42,890
Chrome team, are strongly convinced that it should

1514
00:58:42,890 --> 00:58:43,550
be removed.

1515
00:58:44,370 --> 00:58:47,690
So this was never just a neutral discussion.

1516
00:58:47,830 --> 00:58:50,450
This was always gonna end with, we're gonna

1517
00:58:50,450 --> 00:58:51,510
remove XSLT.

1518
00:58:51,690 --> 00:58:54,550
So it's clear now that this was just

1519
00:58:54,550 --> 00:58:59,310
sort of like a waste of everybody's thought

1520
00:58:59,310 --> 00:58:59,790
power.

1521
00:59:01,610 --> 00:59:04,070
Doing so would reduce our ability, let's see,

1522
00:59:05,110 --> 00:59:09,130
so, he's saying that spending the time to

1523
00:59:09,130 --> 00:59:13,430
upgrade the XSLT library would reduce our ability

1524
00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:16,590
to work on other platform features where there

1525
00:59:16,590 --> 00:59:20,110
is measurable developer interests and impact in which

1526
00:59:20,110 --> 00:59:21,330
drive the web forward.

1527
00:59:22,970 --> 00:59:24,970
One such example is Interop 2025.

1528
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:28,330
Most of the features in Interop 2025 have

1529
00:59:28,330 --> 00:59:30,810
widespread developer interests, and many of them already

1530
00:59:30,810 --> 00:59:33,390
have much higher usage than XSLT, despite some

1531
00:59:33,390 --> 00:59:34,930
being relatively new.

1532
00:59:35,630 --> 00:59:38,810
This technology, XSLT, is simply one that did

1533
00:59:38,810 --> 00:59:40,810
not stand the test of time for client

1534
00:59:40,810 --> 00:59:43,370
-side usage in web browsers that does not

1535
00:59:43,370 --> 00:59:44,890
take away from the technology itself.

1536
00:59:46,590 --> 00:59:56,430
And so, so this comment pissed everybody off.

1537
00:59:57,210 --> 00:59:58,110
I'll say.

1538
00:59:58,870 --> 01:00:01,210
Yeah, because it was basically, he's basically saying,

1539
01:00:01,370 --> 01:00:08,290
hey, I appreciate everybody's thoughtful responses, but we've

1540
01:00:08,290 --> 01:00:12,550
already decided not to do this, not to,

1541
01:00:12,610 --> 01:00:15,090
we've already decided basically not to listen to

1542
01:00:15,090 --> 01:00:15,370
you.

1543
01:00:16,050 --> 01:00:18,690
We're gonna do what we wanna do, regardless

1544
01:00:18,690 --> 01:00:22,730
of the strength of your conviction or the

1545
01:00:22,730 --> 01:00:24,350
quality of your argument.

1546
01:00:26,430 --> 01:00:29,270
And so the first response back was, quote,

1547
01:00:29,350 --> 01:00:30,230
limited resources.

1548
01:00:30,690 --> 01:00:32,210
You're literally a two and a half trillion

1549
01:00:32,210 --> 01:00:32,910
dollar company.

1550
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:33,750
Right?

1551
01:00:34,410 --> 01:00:35,030
Yeah.

1552
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:40,830
But they're all on their stupid AI project.

1553
01:00:41,740 --> 01:00:43,530
Well, and then how many years did they

1554
01:00:43,530 --> 01:00:48,550
spend building that stupid Google advertising sandbox stuff

1555
01:00:48,550 --> 01:00:51,210
in there that then they immediately stopped?

1556
01:00:51,870 --> 01:00:52,910
I don't remember that.

1557
01:00:53,630 --> 01:00:55,870
Yeah, the Google privacy sandbox.

1558
01:00:56,310 --> 01:00:57,250
Oh, I don't remember any of that.

1559
01:00:57,250 --> 01:00:59,110
It was built into Chrome and it was

1560
01:00:59,110 --> 01:01:01,250
supposed to replace third-party cookies.

1561
01:01:01,770 --> 01:01:04,130
Oh, yeah, yeah, sure.

1562
01:01:04,690 --> 01:01:07,570
And they went through, first it was Flock.

1563
01:01:08,210 --> 01:01:10,670
Flock, yes, I forgot about Flock.

1564
01:01:11,370 --> 01:01:13,330
That was gonna replace third-party cookies.

1565
01:01:13,590 --> 01:01:15,530
And then everybody balked at that.

1566
01:01:15,610 --> 01:01:16,850
And then they went back and did the

1567
01:01:16,850 --> 01:01:19,890
Google privacy sandbox and then everybody balked at

1568
01:01:19,890 --> 01:01:20,250
that.

1569
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:22,250
And- Well, hold on a second.

1570
01:01:22,870 --> 01:01:24,550
Can't they just put a lot of that

1571
01:01:24,550 --> 01:01:28,190
incredibly useful code generating AI on the project?

1572
01:01:28,310 --> 01:01:29,110
They don't need people.

1573
01:01:29,870 --> 01:01:31,390
Gemini will do it for them.

1574
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:35,510
Yeah, point Gemini at libexslt and just say,

1575
01:01:35,830 --> 01:01:37,630
hey, Gemini, fix all the bugs.

1576
01:01:37,830 --> 01:01:38,470
Yeah, yeah.

1577
01:01:39,010 --> 01:01:41,410
You gotta wonder if that's actually possible.

1578
01:01:41,530 --> 01:01:42,830
They all say it is possible.

1579
01:01:43,410 --> 01:01:45,290
Everyone's saying, well, 30% of our code

1580
01:01:45,290 --> 01:01:46,630
is built by AI.

1581
01:01:47,870 --> 01:01:52,490
Yeah, get Gemini to run a fuzzer against

1582
01:01:52,490 --> 01:01:55,230
libexslt and find all the security vulnerabilities.

1583
01:01:55,330 --> 01:01:56,750
A fuzzer, a fuzzer.

1584
01:01:57,370 --> 01:01:59,930
I think we're being lied to, Dave.

1585
01:02:00,130 --> 01:02:01,870
I think they're being lied to.

1586
01:02:02,170 --> 01:02:03,750
I sense dishonesty.

1587
01:02:03,990 --> 01:02:05,490
Yes, I do have that feeling.

1588
01:02:07,630 --> 01:02:11,990
But so this may, you predictably get a

1589
01:02:11,990 --> 01:02:15,250
lot, the comments started flooding in about, hey,

1590
01:02:15,350 --> 01:02:15,850
okay.

1591
01:02:17,350 --> 01:02:22,450
All right, guys, you're not being truthful here,

1592
01:02:22,770 --> 01:02:24,010
or I don't wanna say truthful.

1593
01:02:24,190 --> 01:02:26,250
That implies some moral stuff I don't mean.

1594
01:02:26,250 --> 01:02:29,190
It's like, you've already decided not to do

1595
01:02:29,190 --> 01:02:30,610
it and you're just kind of wasting everybody's

1596
01:02:30,610 --> 01:02:30,890
time.

1597
01:02:31,710 --> 01:02:34,790
And my response was, if all the, if

1598
01:02:34,790 --> 01:02:36,430
all roads, and cause this is what I

1599
01:02:36,430 --> 01:02:38,310
had suggested earlier in this thread, I was

1600
01:02:38,310 --> 01:02:40,630
like, well, if the solution is a poly,

1601
01:02:40,770 --> 01:02:48,120
is a JavaScript polyfill and the polyfill correctly

1602
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:53,040
renders all of this XML styling, then why

1603
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,120
not just ship the polyfill right in the

1604
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:57,740
browser and trigger it automatically?

1605
01:02:58,060 --> 01:03:02,420
Get rid of libexxlt, but stick the polyfill

1606
01:03:02,420 --> 01:03:05,320
in the browser so that it triggers automatically

1607
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,180
when a content type on a delivered document

1608
01:03:08,180 --> 01:03:08,800
is XML.

1609
01:03:10,180 --> 01:03:13,160
And that solves all the security problems because

1610
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:16,400
it brings everything into the JavaScript engine and

1611
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,340
it would be in it, but it would

1612
01:03:19,340 --> 01:03:22,680
also put it into a separate module of

1613
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,580
the code base so that people who do

1614
01:03:25,580 --> 01:03:30,720
know XSLT and have the desire to upgrade

1615
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,820
that could submit PRs to the Chrome team,

1616
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:36,060
to the Chromium team.

1617
01:03:36,060 --> 01:03:39,260
Well, as we discussed last episode, last board

1618
01:03:39,260 --> 01:03:43,080
meeting, they should be all for this for

1619
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:46,920
the very reasons of their web scraping AI

1620
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,640
ingesting pipeline.

1621
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,240
They want structured data.

1622
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:55,940
If anything, they should want HTML to go

1623
01:03:55,940 --> 01:03:58,760
away and for everything to be XML rendered

1624
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,700
with style sheets because that'll make their hungry

1625
01:04:02,700 --> 01:04:04,500
AI machine that much happier.

1626
01:04:05,460 --> 01:04:06,420
Yes, exactly.

1627
01:04:06,420 --> 01:04:08,020
I would think, I would think, makes a

1628
01:04:08,020 --> 01:04:08,240
lot of sense.

1629
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:10,700
And XML is a beautiful markup of structured

1630
01:04:10,700 --> 01:04:13,460
language because it has schema, which JSON does

1631
01:04:13,460 --> 01:04:14,080
not have.

1632
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:14,640
Yeah, JSON.

1633
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:16,060
So you don't have to, yeah.

1634
01:04:16,220 --> 01:04:18,540
JSON, I spit on you JSON.

1635
01:04:19,180 --> 01:04:21,320
You have no schema, you have no schema.

1636
01:04:23,020 --> 01:04:25,160
And so I'm like, well, why not just

1637
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,460
bake this polyfill into the browser and just

1638
01:04:28,460 --> 01:04:29,060
trigger it.

1639
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,460
And now people who are good at JavaScript

1640
01:04:32,700 --> 01:04:35,000
and have an interest in XSLT can go

1641
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,400
and submit pull requests directly to the Chromium

1642
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,940
project and they can maintain this for you.

1643
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:42,000
Yeah.

1644
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:47,760
And the response to this was, the response

1645
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:51,260
to that suggestion was, because, and this is

1646
01:04:51,260 --> 01:04:54,060
a quote, because there will be bugs, feature

1647
01:04:54,060 --> 01:04:56,020
requests, and additional maintenance.

1648
01:04:56,300 --> 01:04:57,900
Actual work involved, oh no.

1649
01:04:58,780 --> 01:04:59,120
Yes.

1650
01:04:59,740 --> 01:05:02,220
And additional maintenance that will then be needed

1651
01:05:02,220 --> 01:05:03,740
on the polyfill going forward.

1652
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,260
This just shifts the problem to another area.

1653
01:05:06,900 --> 01:05:09,000
Well, okay.

1654
01:05:09,460 --> 01:05:11,040
Everything has bugs.

1655
01:05:11,220 --> 01:05:11,480
Yeah.

1656
01:05:12,140 --> 01:05:13,400
It's code.

1657
01:05:14,100 --> 01:05:15,660
It's got bugs.

1658
01:05:15,820 --> 01:05:18,680
But that again was not, that was not

1659
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:20,220
the point of this thread.

1660
01:05:20,700 --> 01:05:22,880
The point of this discussion was, should we

1661
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,120
remove XSLT because it's a security vulnerability?

1662
01:05:27,580 --> 01:05:30,600
And now I've said, here's how you get

1663
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,580
rid of security vulnerability and maintain the backwards

1664
01:05:33,580 --> 01:05:34,360
compatibility.

1665
01:05:35,260 --> 01:05:37,820
But now they shifted the argument to where

1666
01:05:37,820 --> 01:05:39,160
now it's not about security anymore.

1667
01:05:39,300 --> 01:05:41,040
Now it's about the overhead of having to

1668
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:41,640
fix bugs.

1669
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:42,060
Yeah.

1670
01:05:42,340 --> 01:05:48,020
Okay, now it's very clear that they just

1671
01:05:48,020 --> 01:05:49,060
want this thing gone.

1672
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,520
They do not care and they want to

1673
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,060
eliminate it and they're not going to listen

1674
01:05:53,060 --> 01:05:53,840
to any feedback.

1675
01:05:54,900 --> 01:05:56,640
And so it's like, okay, so then everybody

1676
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:58,520
just goes nuts and starts posting a bunch

1677
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,400
of just basically ad hominem attacks against Google,

1678
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:02,720
which some are justified.

1679
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,020
And then they just, and so then somebody

1680
01:06:07,020 --> 01:06:09,660
from Apple steps in and just locks the

1681
01:06:09,660 --> 01:06:14,120
thread and hides all the comments, the nasty

1682
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:16,260
comments, and now it's just gone.

1683
01:06:16,460 --> 01:06:19,260
Now you just, nobody can give feedback anymore.

1684
01:06:19,420 --> 01:06:21,980
Rage quits, we're done, we're out, we're Google,

1685
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:23,120
we're history.

1686
01:06:24,500 --> 01:06:27,340
Yeah, Google alley-ooped it and then the

1687
01:06:27,340 --> 01:06:29,980
Apple guy slam dunked it and now it's

1688
01:06:29,980 --> 01:06:32,920
just going to, and now, and so my

1689
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,120
takeaway from that is if you're a podcast

1690
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:41,340
hosting company and you rely on style sheets

1691
01:06:41,340 --> 01:06:43,240
for XML to make your feeds look pretty,

1692
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:46,120
you need to start working on your backup

1693
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:46,480
plan.

1694
01:06:47,020 --> 01:06:47,200
Yay.

1695
01:06:48,820 --> 01:06:53,680
You know, this is also silly because like

1696
01:06:53,680 --> 01:07:03,540
web browsers already, the unjustified sort of

1697
01:07:03,540 --> 01:07:08,540
assumption here or what's being, the idea that

1698
01:07:08,540 --> 01:07:11,560
is being transmitted with this way of speaking

1699
01:07:12,620 --> 01:07:21,280
is that everything should be the, all web

1700
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:27,260
content should be somewhere on the HTML, JavaScript,

1701
01:07:28,380 --> 01:07:29,960
JSON axis.

1702
01:07:31,100 --> 01:07:33,380
Right, which again makes no sense from their

1703
01:07:33,380 --> 01:07:35,660
overall company directive, but okay.

1704
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:40,540
Correct, and that's just not, that's not the

1705
01:07:40,540 --> 01:07:40,960
web.

1706
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:44,240
The web has always been content agnostic.

1707
01:07:45,340 --> 01:07:48,740
Yes, HTML is a first-class citizen for

1708
01:07:48,740 --> 01:07:52,340
sure because of the linking, but browser, but

1709
01:07:52,340 --> 01:07:54,080
that's not the definition of the web.

1710
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:55,800
The definition of the web is not HTML.

1711
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,740
The web is just a universal way to

1712
01:07:59,740 --> 01:08:03,560
link to documents and those documents can be

1713
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:04,360
of any type.

1714
01:08:04,740 --> 01:08:06,580
That's why there's such a thing as the

1715
01:08:06,580 --> 01:08:08,980
content type header in the HTTP response.

1716
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,620
The web is defined, you can define the

1717
01:08:12,620 --> 01:08:22,140
web as a universally addressable document location

1718
01:08:22,140 --> 01:08:22,819
system.

1719
01:08:24,020 --> 01:08:28,380
That's what it is delivered over HTTP.

1720
01:08:30,380 --> 01:08:34,319
And so browsers already make lots of concessions

1721
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:35,979
for various document types.

1722
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:39,060
If you load a direct link to a

1723
01:08:39,060 --> 01:08:41,620
PDF in any of the browsers, it will

1724
01:08:41,620 --> 01:08:41,840
show you.

1725
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,160
It opens in a PDF viewer, yeah.

1726
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,920
Yes, it doesn't show you a binary blob

1727
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:49,279
of blobby goop on the screen.

1728
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:50,300
Blob of data.

1729
01:08:51,100 --> 01:08:51,300
Yeah.

1730
01:08:51,460 --> 01:08:52,720
I remember those days though.

1731
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:53,899
I remember those days.

1732
01:08:54,939 --> 01:08:55,420
Yeah, me too.

1733
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,340
I remember them so much that I know

1734
01:08:57,340 --> 01:09:01,680
what the little header looks like for the

1735
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:04,340
binary blob when it's like the little, you

1736
01:09:04,340 --> 01:09:07,840
know, binary header of what a PDF looks

1737
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:08,020
like.

1738
01:09:08,020 --> 01:09:10,880
It's like percent PDF or something like that.

1739
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:13,540
Yes, when I was a kid, we had

1740
01:09:13,540 --> 01:09:14,620
percent blobs.

1741
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:20,899
But like, see, this is different than deprecating

1742
01:09:20,899 --> 01:09:22,920
something like, so if you're a browser and

1743
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:25,720
you're gonna deprecate something like FTP, which they

1744
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:28,880
did a few years ago, that makes sense.

1745
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:31,399
That's a different protocol.

1746
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:33,120
That's not HTTP.

1747
01:09:33,569 --> 01:09:34,600
Has that been deprecated?

1748
01:09:35,020 --> 01:09:35,760
Is that deprecated?

1749
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:38,580
Yes, you can't go to an FTP site

1750
01:09:38,580 --> 01:09:39,359
in the browser anymore.

1751
01:09:40,399 --> 01:09:45,200
But the web is documents delivered over HTTP.

1752
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,600
FTP was never part of the web.

1753
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:51,520
It was just a convenience feature that was

1754
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:52,020
placed on.

1755
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:53,760
I fully get that.

1756
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,000
But XML is a document.

1757
01:09:57,340 --> 01:10:00,920
And if you address it with a URL

1758
01:10:01,500 --> 01:10:04,720
and deliver it over HTTP, the browser should

1759
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:05,980
handle that properly.

1760
01:10:07,260 --> 01:10:09,760
And just like it does with audio, if

1761
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:11,020
you put in a direct link to an

1762
01:10:11,020 --> 01:10:14,200
MP3 file in your browser and deliver that

1763
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:17,360
over HTTP, it doesn't just show you the

1764
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:20,040
binary of the MP3, it gives you a

1765
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:21,640
little player with a play button on it.

1766
01:10:22,940 --> 01:10:26,040
I just think it's a breaking of the

1767
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:27,980
contract of the web.

1768
01:10:27,980 --> 01:10:28,480
Hmm.

1769
01:10:29,620 --> 01:10:34,880
When browsers start making decisions about what content

1770
01:10:36,890 --> 01:10:42,580
they are going to treat as not worth

1771
01:10:42,580 --> 01:10:44,500
displaying correctly.

1772
01:10:45,020 --> 01:10:48,940
Well, the problem ultimately is that users no

1773
01:10:48,940 --> 01:10:51,140
longer understand what a browser is.

1774
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:54,220
They say, I've got my Google or I've

1775
01:10:54,220 --> 01:10:55,440
got my DuckDuckGo.

1776
01:10:56,140 --> 01:10:57,240
That's all they know.

1777
01:10:57,240 --> 01:10:59,020
They don't understand that they're in a web

1778
01:10:59,020 --> 01:10:59,420
browser.

1779
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:01,580
They don't, they're on their phone.

1780
01:11:02,620 --> 01:11:05,960
And I have an app for that, which

1781
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:06,520
is fine.

1782
01:11:07,220 --> 01:11:10,820
In fact, it's actually better except for the

1783
01:11:10,820 --> 01:11:12,920
default browser that opens.

1784
01:11:13,100 --> 01:11:14,360
But I think there's a lot of room

1785
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:17,560
still for people to create apps that have

1786
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,900
at its core search functionality and then a

1787
01:11:20,900 --> 01:11:21,220
browser.

1788
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:23,540
And I think there's plenty, that's probably what

1789
01:11:23,540 --> 01:11:24,720
perplexity is seeing too.

1790
01:11:25,620 --> 01:11:29,400
Because users do, they just don't, Dave, there

1791
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,240
are people, we've been keeping track on no

1792
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:32,720
agenda.

1793
01:11:34,580 --> 01:11:36,980
People, first, we know that people can't read

1794
01:11:36,980 --> 01:11:38,020
clock anymore.

1795
01:11:39,140 --> 01:11:40,620
An analog clock.

1796
01:11:41,420 --> 01:11:42,300
Don't know how to read it.

1797
01:11:42,300 --> 01:11:43,020
Oh yeah, with hands, yeah.

1798
01:11:44,540 --> 01:11:48,320
We have an example of a DoorDash worker

1799
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:50,980
standing at a deli counter saying, I need

1800
01:11:50,980 --> 01:11:54,900
five LBS of this, and I need 10

1801
01:11:54,900 --> 01:11:56,340
LBS of this.

1802
01:11:56,780 --> 01:11:59,860
And did not know that LBS means pounds.

1803
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:03,320
There was a person giving change saying, how

1804
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,220
much is this worth holding up a nickel?

1805
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:06,760
How much is this worth?

1806
01:12:07,180 --> 01:12:11,580
And then my favorite, how much is 12

1807
01:12:11,580 --> 01:12:12,580
Florida ounces?

1808
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:21,580
A Florida ounce is slightly different than a

1809
01:12:21,580 --> 01:12:22,260
Georgia ounce.

1810
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:23,900
They're not the same thing.

1811
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,960
Exactly, so there's a lot of things that

1812
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,500
we take for granted that people just don't

1813
01:12:29,500 --> 01:12:30,120
know anymore.

1814
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:32,720
And it's quite bad.

1815
01:12:32,820 --> 01:12:34,920
You know one thing that people, I remember

1816
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:41,840
being taught when I was, my first job

1817
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:45,200
out of high school was working at a

1818
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:47,040
grocery store stocking shelves.

1819
01:12:47,740 --> 01:12:50,760
But my next job was at a pet

1820
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:51,100
store.

1821
01:12:52,460 --> 01:12:54,160
I remember when the owner of the pet

1822
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:57,800
store showed me, he's like, when you give

1823
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:01,400
back somebody's change, if they give you, if

1824
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:05,120
it's $5.27 and they give you back,

1825
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:08,000
and they give you a 20, here's how

1826
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:09,180
you count it back to them.

1827
01:13:09,380 --> 01:13:11,020
And you start with what they gave you

1828
01:13:11,020 --> 01:13:12,360
and you count up to 20.

1829
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:16,520
Man, that blows people's minds today.

1830
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:18,540
They're lost, they have no idea how to

1831
01:13:18,540 --> 01:13:18,940
do it.

1832
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:21,720
It's not even that they don't understand the

1833
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:22,940
math, they don't even know what you just

1834
01:13:22,940 --> 01:13:23,220
did.

1835
01:13:23,340 --> 01:13:23,840
They're like, what?

1836
01:13:25,220 --> 01:13:27,640
Or how many bagels is a half dozen?

1837
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:29,400
I just don't, I gotta look up the

1838
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:29,700
code.

1839
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,740
I'm not kidding, true example.

1840
01:13:34,220 --> 01:13:35,720
If I can just switch for a moment,

1841
01:13:35,780 --> 01:13:38,140
I'd like to do a shameless plug for

1842
01:13:38,140 --> 01:13:40,020
those of you going to Podcast Movement.

1843
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:43,420
This coming week, I will be there on

1844
01:13:43,420 --> 01:13:48,700
Tuesday, the 19th of August, 9.45 a

1845
01:13:48,700 --> 01:13:50,360
.m., which I guess is kind of prime

1846
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:51,060
time.

1847
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:54,680
That sounds pretty prime time, because that's right

1848
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:56,580
after everybody gets coffeed up and everybody's ready

1849
01:13:56,580 --> 01:13:56,860
to go.

1850
01:13:57,300 --> 01:13:59,380
Shall I read you what they've written on

1851
01:13:59,380 --> 01:14:04,220
their Podcast Movement website about my speech here?

1852
01:14:04,580 --> 01:14:07,800
First, the headline is, Adam Curry, the Podfather,

1853
01:14:08,060 --> 01:14:10,020
returns to Podcast Movement.

1854
01:14:10,900 --> 01:14:11,500
Wow.

1855
01:14:12,180 --> 01:14:13,420
Adam Curry returns.

1856
01:14:14,300 --> 01:14:15,000
I've returned.

1857
01:14:15,620 --> 01:14:20,220
Information, like every media slash technology slash cultural

1858
01:14:20,220 --> 01:14:24,700
darling throughout history, podcasting is full of speculation.

1859
01:14:25,780 --> 01:14:27,180
What will keep it flourishing?

1860
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,100
How can it grow without losing its unique

1861
01:14:30,100 --> 01:14:30,520
magic?

1862
01:14:31,340 --> 01:14:33,980
What will make it a mainstay for advertisers?

1863
01:14:36,460 --> 01:14:40,380
Everyone's perspective and efforts across the ecosystem are

1864
01:14:40,380 --> 01:14:40,780
worthy.

1865
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:43,420
That, of course, includes the perspective of the

1866
01:14:43,420 --> 01:14:45,900
man who effectively started it all.

1867
01:14:47,860 --> 01:14:50,140
Did they say Podfather in there?

1868
01:14:50,620 --> 01:14:51,300
Let me see.

1869
01:14:51,980 --> 01:14:54,380
One of the storied MTV VJs in the

1870
01:14:54,380 --> 01:14:58,180
80s and 90s, Adam Curry, in parens, along

1871
01:14:58,180 --> 01:15:03,240
with Dave Weiner, is the, little asterisk, podcast

1872
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:03,800
pioneer.

1873
01:15:04,440 --> 01:15:05,800
Wait, they put an asterisk on it?

1874
01:15:05,940 --> 01:15:09,060
No, between, the word the has two asterisks,

1875
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:10,280
so it's emphasized.

1876
01:15:11,100 --> 01:15:13,280
It's markdown, it's markdown language.

1877
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:15,280
Markdown, markdown, yes, that's right.

1878
01:15:15,780 --> 01:15:18,340
Having developed the concept, format, and technology in

1879
01:15:18,340 --> 01:15:20,360
2004, he's never stopped.

1880
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:23,420
Principal in the Podcast Index Collective.

1881
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,360
Oh, if I'm the principal, you, Dave Jones,

1882
01:15:26,460 --> 01:15:27,880
are surely the hall monitor.

1883
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:31,260
Safety patrol.

1884
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:34,260
Safety patrol, crossing guard.

1885
01:15:34,780 --> 01:15:36,180
Yes, Dave Jones, safety patrol.

1886
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:40,540
Adam champions open and independent podcasting, and no

1887
01:15:40,540 --> 01:15:42,340
great mystery, he has a lot to say

1888
01:15:42,340 --> 01:15:45,060
about the technology and approach that's going to

1889
01:15:45,060 --> 01:15:48,920
keep this space on its rockstar trajectory.

1890
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:54,260
More interactivity, better delivery protocols, easier ways for

1891
01:15:54,260 --> 01:15:57,300
creators to make money in the context of

1892
01:15:57,300 --> 01:15:59,140
Podcasting 2.0, wow.

1893
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:04,580
He joins audio luminary Rocky Thomas, Soundstack CSO,

1894
01:16:04,660 --> 01:16:06,280
who has just as much to say about

1895
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:09,460
all of this for this intimate and specific

1896
01:16:09,460 --> 01:16:10,220
discussion.

1897
01:16:11,020 --> 01:16:13,220
Takeaways will include, oh, they already have takeaways.

1898
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:15,700
Oh, you haven't even talked yet, they get

1899
01:16:15,700 --> 01:16:16,540
to, okay, all right.

1900
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:19,020
Current lay of the land on Podcasting 2

1901
01:16:19,020 --> 01:16:22,560
.0 and what's working for publishers now, in

1902
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:26,520
parens, location tags, funding tags, et cetera.

1903
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:31,400
Coming features that will truly move the needle,

1904
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:33,600
lit, et cetera.

1905
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:36,760
That's not a coming feature, that's- That's

1906
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:37,160
bait.

1907
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:40,900
And the finally, ways for any of us

1908
01:16:40,900 --> 01:16:44,820
to get involved, the podcast standards project, et

1909
01:16:44,820 --> 01:16:45,300
cetera.

1910
01:16:45,780 --> 01:16:49,440
And here's my favorite part, headphone color white,

1911
01:16:49,740 --> 01:16:50,640
channel six.

1912
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:52,160
Wait, what?

1913
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:52,860
I know.

1914
01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:53,560
What does that mean?

1915
01:16:53,660 --> 01:16:54,540
What does that mean?

1916
01:16:54,620 --> 01:16:56,980
I didn't know what this meant until Rocky

1917
01:16:56,980 --> 01:16:58,340
Thomas explained it to me.

1918
01:16:58,880 --> 01:16:59,080
I'm sorry.

1919
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:03,700
When I feel like I should have this

1920
01:17:03,700 --> 01:17:05,260
on my phone.

1921
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,160
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Rocky Thomas.

1922
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:10,180
Rocky Thomas.

1923
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:11,000
Ha.

1924
01:17:12,460 --> 01:17:14,860
Yes, yes, I have to have that at

1925
01:17:14,860 --> 01:17:15,200
the ready.

1926
01:17:15,480 --> 01:17:17,800
A little bit, a little bit more intro

1927
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:20,120
music and then you can do the smoke

1928
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:21,940
machine when she comes out the door with

1929
01:17:21,940 --> 01:17:22,040
it.

1930
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:25,880
Yeah, the smoke machine, pyrotechnics.

1931
01:17:26,500 --> 01:17:26,700
Yeah.

1932
01:17:27,940 --> 01:17:32,840
So apparently, this was unbeknownst to me, in

1933
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:39,100
the sessions, everybody has a headphone and I

1934
01:17:39,100 --> 01:17:43,720
guess if you, maybe there's multiple sessions and

1935
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:48,240
you put on your headphones, white colored headphones

1936
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:51,900
and use channel number six because it's not

1937
01:17:51,900 --> 01:17:53,180
an amplified session.

1938
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:54,920
It's kind of like a deaf disco.

1939
01:17:57,970 --> 01:17:58,380
Yeah.

1940
01:17:58,380 --> 01:17:58,640
Yeah.

1941
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:00,780
Isn't that crazy?

1942
01:18:02,900 --> 01:18:06,780
And Rocky said, the problem is, or at

1943
01:18:06,780 --> 01:18:08,540
least last year, she said, because this is

1944
01:18:08,540 --> 01:18:11,040
not a new thing, is that you don't

1945
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:13,540
hear yourself in the headphones, which is like,

1946
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:15,400
wow, that's going to be difficult.

1947
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:18,460
Okay, you're going to have to stop because

1948
01:18:18,460 --> 01:18:21,440
I still do not understand what is being

1949
01:18:21,440 --> 01:18:22,500
told to me right now.

1950
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:22,940
Okay.

1951
01:18:23,100 --> 01:18:25,380
You're saying that everybody in the audience is

1952
01:18:25,380 --> 01:18:26,220
going to have headphones on.

1953
01:18:26,220 --> 01:18:28,100
Yes, like a bunch of drones.

1954
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:32,080
And you're going to be talking, are you

1955
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:33,200
going to have headphones on too?

1956
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:34,200
I guess so, yeah.

1957
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:38,300
So I can hear questions or people burping

1958
01:18:38,300 --> 01:18:38,760
apparently.

1959
01:18:38,940 --> 01:18:39,320
I don't know.

1960
01:18:39,380 --> 01:18:41,800
I don't know if there's someone switches like

1961
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:43,960
headphone number 37, you go.

1962
01:18:44,580 --> 01:18:45,120
I don't know.

1963
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:45,820
I don't know.

1964
01:18:46,580 --> 01:18:49,000
Do the headphones have mics on them?

1965
01:18:49,620 --> 01:18:50,060
Presumably.

1966
01:18:51,780 --> 01:18:53,320
Wow, this is so weird.

1967
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:56,660
Why does this have to happen?

1968
01:18:57,380 --> 01:18:58,400
I don't understand.

1969
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:00,900
What is, why is this better than just

1970
01:19:00,900 --> 01:19:02,100
a, hey, if you got a question, come

1971
01:19:02,100 --> 01:19:03,540
to the mic, it's over there in the.

1972
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:04,560
Yeah, I don't know.

1973
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:06,580
But that's what they're doing now so that

1974
01:19:06,580 --> 01:19:10,420
everybody can hear and I guess.

1975
01:19:10,900 --> 01:19:13,060
And so maybe it's so it doesn't bleed

1976
01:19:13,060 --> 01:19:15,320
over into, maybe it's all in one big

1977
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:16,980
room and you just sit at different tables

1978
01:19:16,980 --> 01:19:19,840
and you're talking, you can switch between channels

1979
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:21,360
and listen to a different session.

1980
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,500
Okay, Daniel says the stage is in the

1981
01:19:25,500 --> 01:19:27,780
expo hall, so it's too noisy for a

1982
01:19:27,780 --> 01:19:28,080
PA.

1983
01:19:28,940 --> 01:19:31,000
So they use this headphone system so the

1984
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:33,180
audience wears headphones so they can hear the

1985
01:19:33,180 --> 01:19:33,560
session.

1986
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,560
Sometimes they'll have sessions literally right next to

1987
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:37,040
each other.

1988
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:38,620
Wow.

1989
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:39,880
Whew.

1990
01:19:40,440 --> 01:19:41,920
Wow, wow, wow.

1991
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:42,740
Man.

1992
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:44,420
That's pretty interesting, huh?

1993
01:19:44,740 --> 01:19:45,980
Look, I believe in you.

1994
01:19:46,860 --> 01:19:49,000
Look, they have, he has a picture of

1995
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:49,540
the headphones.

1996
01:19:49,540 --> 01:19:52,380
Looks like my first Sony headphones.

1997
01:19:54,140 --> 01:19:56,240
Oh, silent sound system?

1998
01:19:57,020 --> 01:20:00,720
Huh, the white head, you got the white

1999
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:01,140
headphones.

2000
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:06,440
Yes, yes, it's a much valued color, white.

2001
01:20:07,260 --> 01:20:09,060
Yes, the absence of all color.

2002
01:20:10,260 --> 01:20:10,940
So anyway.

2003
01:20:13,300 --> 01:20:14,720
Yeah, so.

2004
01:20:14,900 --> 01:20:16,260
Good luck, is all I can say.

2005
01:20:16,340 --> 01:20:17,480
Because that feels weird to me.

2006
01:20:17,540 --> 01:20:18,040
Good luck.

2007
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:24,220
Well, I'm very, I'm very thankful that Soundstack

2008
01:20:24,220 --> 01:20:25,780
paid for the room.

2009
01:20:25,900 --> 01:20:26,940
That's why I return.

2010
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:29,560
I don't return, I would never return for

2011
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:33,140
those guys because they did us dirty, man.

2012
01:20:34,460 --> 01:20:36,940
The audience can switch, Nathan said the audience

2013
01:20:36,940 --> 01:20:38,640
can switch audio channels at will.

2014
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:40,740
So that means they can just stop listening

2015
01:20:40,740 --> 01:20:42,320
to you and start listening to somebody.

2016
01:20:42,580 --> 01:20:43,960
Literally tune out.

2017
01:20:44,900 --> 01:20:46,600
Somebody's, there's going to be a dude in

2018
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:47,400
the front row.

2019
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:48,380
Yeah, who's going to be.

2020
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:50,700
Staring at you and nodding and listening to

2021
01:20:50,700 --> 01:20:51,500
some other session.

2022
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:56,140
Conferences are not what they used to be.

2023
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:58,100
And then he's going to ask a question

2024
01:20:58,100 --> 01:20:59,520
and you're going to think he's talking to

2025
01:20:59,520 --> 01:20:59,840
you.

2026
01:21:00,020 --> 01:21:02,020
And he's actually talking to the guy two

2027
01:21:02,020 --> 01:21:03,080
stages down.

2028
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:04,580
This is the, this is weird.

2029
01:21:04,900 --> 01:21:05,400
It's bizarre.

2030
01:21:06,060 --> 01:21:09,900
But anyway, so I'm going to meet, I'm

2031
01:21:09,900 --> 01:21:14,960
going to meet Rob Kirkpatrick from Focus on

2032
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:15,380
the family.

2033
01:21:15,440 --> 01:21:17,120
Going to meet him after that.

2034
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:22,540
And then hopefully I'll get to have a

2035
01:21:22,540 --> 01:21:25,880
coffee or something with Cridland because he's like,

2036
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:28,280
I want to have a coffee with you.

2037
01:21:28,460 --> 01:21:30,900
Of course we should, we need to catch

2038
01:21:30,900 --> 01:21:31,060
up.

2039
01:21:31,180 --> 01:21:32,820
We haven't, we've never really caught up properly.

2040
01:21:34,260 --> 01:21:35,680
Yeah, I mean, the only time, the only

2041
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:39,580
time I've ever met him in person, it

2042
01:21:39,580 --> 01:21:41,460
was that it was during COVID.

2043
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:43,500
And so nobody was allowed to touch each

2044
01:21:43,500 --> 01:21:43,720
other.

2045
01:21:44,260 --> 01:21:46,560
Yeah, and when I see James Cridland, I

2046
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:48,060
obviously want to touch him.

2047
01:21:48,140 --> 01:21:49,840
Let's be fair, let's be honest.

2048
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:53,340
Everybody, he's got, he's just so touchable.

2049
01:21:53,340 --> 01:21:55,120
He's touchable, he's touchable, he's huggable.

2050
01:21:55,580 --> 01:21:56,780
He's just so very touchable.

2051
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:58,940
Yeah, and then he and Sam Sethi were,

2052
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:00,900
didn't do a regular power today.

2053
01:22:01,140 --> 01:22:04,140
So I miss my Crid, miss my Crid

2054
01:22:04,140 --> 01:22:04,880
fix, man.

2055
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:07,260
It was my Crid fix, you know.

2056
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:11,040
I love how these guys are like, well,

2057
01:22:11,220 --> 01:22:14,760
you know, if American customs let's me in

2058
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:15,920
to the country.

2059
01:22:16,660 --> 01:22:18,380
Well, why would they not?

2060
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:22,720
Ah, this is, it's- They have contraband?

2061
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:25,380
Are they bringing- No, it's this perception

2062
01:22:25,380 --> 01:22:28,620
outside of America that we're horrible people.

2063
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:30,280
Oh, because of Trump.

2064
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:33,560
Yeah, Trump, basically, because of ICE, Trump, you

2065
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:33,760
know.

2066
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:35,580
Look, just don't bring any fruit.

2067
01:22:35,900 --> 01:22:37,100
If you don't bring any fruit, you'll be

2068
01:22:37,100 --> 01:22:37,200
fine.

2069
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:39,100
If you don't bring fruit, you'll be fine.

2070
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:41,760
Oh, goodness.

2071
01:22:41,980 --> 01:22:42,780
Do we have anything else?

2072
01:22:42,780 --> 01:22:44,380
We got a couple more minutes here before

2073
01:22:44,380 --> 01:22:45,440
we have to thank some people.

2074
01:22:45,660 --> 01:22:46,880
I want to make sure you got everything

2075
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:47,480
out today.

2076
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:51,940
Oh, that's the- You're walking away.

2077
01:22:52,780 --> 01:22:54,480
So I was looking at my sheet, which

2078
01:22:54,480 --> 01:22:57,420
I had, which had slipped onto the floor.

2079
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:01,180
I think that's, I think that's all I

2080
01:23:01,180 --> 01:23:03,860
had, because I don't, I want to talk

2081
01:23:03,860 --> 01:23:09,800
about, I've got an idea, I've got an

2082
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:16,020
idea for maybe how we can try to

2083
01:23:16,020 --> 01:23:19,100
get something rolling with Spurlocks.

2084
01:23:19,660 --> 01:23:21,160
Oh, wait, stop right there.

2085
01:23:21,340 --> 01:23:22,020
Do a David J.

2086
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:22,760
Lewis tease.

2087
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:25,820
I have, next week, on the board meeting,

2088
01:23:25,900 --> 01:23:27,300
we have an idea how we can get

2089
01:23:27,300 --> 01:23:31,920
something rolling with Spurlocks, and leave it right

2090
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:32,280
there.

2091
01:23:35,060 --> 01:23:36,060
Let's see, where is it?

2092
01:23:36,060 --> 01:23:36,520
Here it is.

2093
01:23:38,480 --> 01:23:39,620
I couldn't remember it.

2094
01:23:39,700 --> 01:23:41,900
First, SPC, Standard Podcast Consumption.

2095
01:23:41,900 --> 01:23:43,560
Oh yeah, no, good, because I like that.

2096
01:23:43,740 --> 01:23:45,880
That's something I want to, I have some

2097
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:46,800
use cases for.

2098
01:23:47,020 --> 01:23:48,400
We're doing the show next week.

2099
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:49,160
Are we?

2100
01:23:50,180 --> 01:23:50,840
Yeah, we are, right?

2101
01:23:50,980 --> 01:23:51,160
Yeah.

2102
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:53,280
You'll be here, okay.

2103
01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:55,000
Yeah, this is something, am I gone?

2104
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:56,420
Do you know more than I do?

2105
01:23:57,960 --> 01:23:59,760
Have I not told you your calendar yet?

2106
01:23:59,820 --> 01:24:00,600
I guess not.

2107
01:24:02,220 --> 01:24:03,380
I'm being live, man.

2108
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:04,140
I'm being live.

2109
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:05,520
We should have Spurlock on the show to

2110
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:06,040
talk about it.

2111
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:07,320
Yeah, let's get Spurlock on the show.

2112
01:24:07,480 --> 01:24:08,300
Hold on, let me see.

2113
01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:09,340
He's never doing anything.

2114
01:24:09,500 --> 01:24:10,160
Let's get him on the show.

2115
01:24:10,660 --> 01:24:11,800
Does he have a job now?

2116
01:24:11,980 --> 01:24:13,660
I don't, I can never keep track of

2117
01:24:13,660 --> 01:24:14,140
him.

2118
01:24:14,460 --> 01:24:16,620
Oh, Spurlock would wilt with a real job.

2119
01:24:17,220 --> 01:24:18,480
Yeah, me too, by the way.

2120
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:21,260
He can't, he's not, it's not, yeah, he'll

2121
01:24:21,260 --> 01:24:22,220
never have a real job.

2122
01:24:22,340 --> 01:24:25,020
He's got, he needs to be free to

2123
01:24:25,020 --> 01:24:29,840
float and take, and be taken where his

2124
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:30,920
mind wants to lead him.

2125
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:32,040
Okay, all right.

2126
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:35,380
Let's thank some people for boosting during this

2127
01:24:35,380 --> 01:24:36,500
fine board meeting.

2128
01:24:36,580 --> 01:24:38,280
We kick it off with Martin Lindiskog.

2129
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:39,860
Let me make sure I read them in

2130
01:24:39,860 --> 01:24:41,460
reverse chronological order.

2131
01:24:43,140 --> 01:24:45,940
Actually, he sent the same one twice, so

2132
01:24:45,940 --> 01:24:47,300
we always appreciate that.

2133
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:52,920
17, oh no, he sent 1776 and 1701.

2134
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:54,220
So we thank you for that.

2135
01:24:54,460 --> 01:24:58,480
Same message, though, BoosterGram from true fans.

2136
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:01,680
Adam, best premises with your fire chat.

2137
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:05,300
I'll be doing a fire chat for sure.

2138
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:08,240
At the Podcast Movement Conference, I asked Rocky

2139
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:10,260
Thomas on LinkedIn if it would be possible

2140
01:25:10,260 --> 01:25:12,020
to listen to your conversation on a new

2141
01:25:12,020 --> 01:25:13,620
modern podcast application.

2142
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:15,900
She replied, working on it, we'll let you

2143
01:25:15,900 --> 01:25:16,240
know.

2144
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:19,080
I will do an episode on podcast events

2145
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:21,180
at my new podcast, Swing That Gig.

2146
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:25,480
We planned an unconference, potluck conference is keynote

2147
01:25:25,480 --> 01:25:29,040
conferences in Swedish, in Gothenburg some time ago,

2148
01:25:29,060 --> 01:25:30,760
but then the pandemic came along us some

2149
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:32,520
time ago and it was not possible to

2150
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:32,900
arrange it.

2151
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:36,540
I actually, I saw an email thread that

2152
01:25:36,540 --> 01:25:42,760
Rocky asked Rob Greenlee to bring his fancy,

2153
01:25:42,940 --> 01:25:45,160
like two and a half thousand dollar multi

2154
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:46,600
-microphone recording system.

2155
01:25:47,780 --> 01:25:48,240
Oh, really?

2156
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:49,060
Do you know about this?

2157
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:50,020
No.

2158
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:53,140
Yeah, it's a crazy thing.

2159
01:25:53,340 --> 01:25:55,400
He was talking about it, here, let me

2160
01:25:55,400 --> 01:26:03,340
see, it's called the Nomono, the Nomono, nomono

2161
01:26:03,340 --> 01:26:06,280
.co. Nomono, I've heard of that, but I

2162
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:07,320
didn't know it was two grand.

2163
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:08,380
Yeah, two and a half.

2164
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:11,120
Turn any great conversation into a podcast.

2165
01:26:11,420 --> 01:26:16,480
It's basically a portable blob and it has

2166
01:26:16,480 --> 01:26:19,240
four microphones and it's almost like you're playing

2167
01:26:19,240 --> 01:26:21,720
a game of Hungry Hippos, but instead of

2168
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:25,680
smashing on the Hungry Hippos, you grab the

2169
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:28,200
microphone and then it records your conversation.

2170
01:26:28,680 --> 01:26:29,940
Oh, that's kind of a cool idea.

2171
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:34,940
So I'm presuming that that will be recorded,

2172
01:26:35,460 --> 01:26:36,040
so hopefully.

2173
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:41,360
Hey, 33,333 sats from Salty Crayon, dude

2174
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:43,940
named Ben, coming in from the Castamatic.

2175
01:26:44,180 --> 01:26:45,240
I'm Sir Curacaster.

2176
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:47,240
Howdy, Dave and Adam, just wanted to say

2177
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:48,800
a huge thanks for all you've done and

2178
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:51,540
built with everything, everyone for Podcasting 2.0

2179
01:26:51,540 --> 01:26:52,300
and the music.

2180
01:26:52,780 --> 01:26:54,520
I think the remaining ones of us, the

2181
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:57,160
music podcasters, can confidently carry the banner of

2182
01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:57,860
V4V Music.

2183
01:26:57,860 --> 01:26:59,720
When y'all move on to go full

2184
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:03,220
God casting, like, hello, Fred, it's been full

2185
01:27:03,220 --> 01:27:03,780
of scissors.

2186
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:06,060
It's full of scissors and we're happy to

2187
01:27:06,060 --> 01:27:07,660
keep running with them five by five in

2188
01:27:07,660 --> 01:27:08,020
the pipe.

2189
01:27:08,100 --> 01:27:13,100
I will tell you that I predict many

2190
01:27:13,100 --> 01:27:18,300
Godcaster people will be using V4V Music in

2191
01:27:18,300 --> 01:27:18,700
the future.

2192
01:27:19,100 --> 01:27:21,100
They are all ready for it.

2193
01:27:21,700 --> 01:27:24,800
And a lot of these churches make music

2194
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:28,540
and they're looking for alternative ways to distribute

2195
01:27:28,540 --> 01:27:31,520
it and for people to send them value.

2196
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:36,300
So I think we're not done yet with

2197
01:27:36,300 --> 01:27:36,540
that.

2198
01:27:36,660 --> 01:27:38,020
We're not walking away from anything.

2199
01:27:39,480 --> 01:27:41,740
Yeah, I don't, you know, walking away, I'm

2200
01:27:41,740 --> 01:27:42,500
not sure about that.

2201
01:27:43,300 --> 01:27:45,440
I've actually got, I had some notes that

2202
01:27:45,440 --> 01:27:46,880
had written down to talk about, we didn't

2203
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:50,700
get to it, but about, and maybe we

2204
01:27:50,700 --> 01:27:51,900
can talk about this next week with Spurlock,

2205
01:27:52,100 --> 01:27:55,520
I'll jot it down, but this, about the

2206
01:27:55,520 --> 01:28:00,260
idea of having, of some features you have

2207
01:28:00,260 --> 01:28:03,700
to sort of shepherd and push and other

2208
01:28:03,700 --> 01:28:05,640
features kind of live and grow on their

2209
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:05,980
own.

2210
01:28:06,100 --> 01:28:06,460
Yeah.

2211
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:09,620
And I think V4V has just been, or

2212
01:28:09,620 --> 01:28:11,860
the value tag has been one of those

2213
01:28:11,860 --> 01:28:13,460
features that you have to push.

2214
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:16,340
You know, you have to get traction.

2215
01:28:16,580 --> 01:28:20,520
You have to, it's a complicated feature.

2216
01:28:20,740 --> 01:28:21,360
It is.

2217
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:24,500
You have to, you have to have a,

2218
01:28:24,580 --> 01:28:32,280
almost like an ombudsman for that feature to

2219
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:38,000
be able to guide normal people into its

2220
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:38,440
use.

2221
01:28:38,980 --> 01:28:41,020
Whereas other features are just, they're just more

2222
01:28:41,020 --> 01:28:44,360
simplistic and they kind of will live and

2223
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:45,140
grow on their own.

2224
01:28:45,980 --> 01:28:49,600
And the value tag, you know, the value

2225
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:54,040
tag became more complicated when Albie made their

2226
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:54,420
changes.

2227
01:28:54,620 --> 01:28:56,080
Well, I can tell you what's going to

2228
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:58,300
happen, what should happen.

2229
01:28:58,640 --> 01:29:03,640
And this will be controversial, but I already

2230
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:05,180
predicted it and already said it was going

2231
01:29:05,180 --> 01:29:07,460
to happen and stable coin will be a

2232
01:29:07,460 --> 01:29:08,900
part of our lives globally.

2233
01:29:09,460 --> 01:29:11,600
There are already 400 million users.

2234
01:29:12,420 --> 01:29:14,100
It's divisible digitally.

2235
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:16,520
So you can send little bits and bobs

2236
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:18,660
and little pieces just like we do today

2237
01:29:18,660 --> 01:29:19,380
with Bitcoin.

2238
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:21,800
But if we want it to catch on

2239
01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:24,240
big, the actual value for value part, it

2240
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:27,960
will have to, there will have to be

2241
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:30,520
a payment rail that is stable coin.

2242
01:29:31,500 --> 01:29:34,780
And I don't think the people who are

2243
01:29:34,780 --> 01:29:36,640
doing it right now will feel like doing

2244
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:37,180
that.

2245
01:29:39,970 --> 01:29:40,250
Probably not.

2246
01:29:40,550 --> 01:29:41,610
Yeah, probably not.

2247
01:29:41,930 --> 01:29:44,870
We never had programmable money until we had

2248
01:29:44,870 --> 01:29:49,890
programmable money and there will be programmable money

2249
01:29:49,890 --> 01:29:51,550
in the form of stable coin.

2250
01:29:51,690 --> 01:29:53,950
The entire world will be using it.

2251
01:29:54,630 --> 01:29:56,530
That's just a fact.

2252
01:29:56,750 --> 01:29:59,650
I mean, it's law, it's written in the

2253
01:29:59,650 --> 01:29:59,990
books.

2254
01:30:00,490 --> 01:30:03,450
It's a big part of the American financial

2255
01:30:03,450 --> 01:30:08,970
strategy to keep dollar dominance.

2256
01:30:09,590 --> 01:30:12,930
And it is not within the DNA of

2257
01:30:12,930 --> 01:30:14,810
the V4V people.

2258
01:30:17,810 --> 01:30:19,790
So someone will have to pick that up

2259
01:30:19,790 --> 01:30:21,150
and run with it if they want it

2260
01:30:21,150 --> 01:30:21,590
to work.

2261
01:30:22,730 --> 01:30:24,890
But I'm not sure that's going to happen

2262
01:30:24,890 --> 01:30:25,970
very quickly, but.

2263
01:30:26,510 --> 01:30:28,410
Well, I mean, it's good that TrueFans and

2264
01:30:28,410 --> 01:30:31,290
Fountain made the changes that they did to

2265
01:30:31,290 --> 01:30:35,710
be able to show things in like country

2266
01:30:35,710 --> 01:30:40,670
denominated currency instead of just in sats and

2267
01:30:40,670 --> 01:30:41,970
that kind of thing, because that sets the

2268
01:30:41,970 --> 01:30:44,410
stage for if they want to also support

2269
01:30:44,410 --> 01:30:49,950
stable coin under the hood, they won't have

2270
01:30:49,950 --> 01:30:50,450
to do any more.

2271
01:30:50,570 --> 01:30:52,470
You know, they want to change that idea.

2272
01:30:52,750 --> 01:30:53,190
I hope so.

2273
01:30:53,450 --> 01:30:57,310
And I think TrueFans probably sees the opportunity.

2274
01:30:57,990 --> 01:30:59,950
It may not be so married to the

2275
01:30:59,950 --> 01:31:00,950
Bitcoin part.

2276
01:31:01,070 --> 01:31:02,710
Listen, I'm a Bitcoin maxi.

2277
01:31:02,770 --> 01:31:03,430
I love Bitcoin.

2278
01:31:03,670 --> 01:31:04,690
I don't have anything else.

2279
01:31:04,770 --> 01:31:08,230
Don't have any, what is that super thing?

2280
01:31:10,350 --> 01:31:11,530
Ripple, what is that?

2281
01:31:12,050 --> 01:31:12,450
Really?

2282
01:31:12,570 --> 01:31:12,970
XRP.

2283
01:31:12,970 --> 01:31:14,530
I don't have XRP.

2284
01:31:15,070 --> 01:31:17,270
Oh my, my hair girl, my hair girl.

2285
01:31:17,790 --> 01:31:19,230
So I set her up with a wallet

2286
01:31:19,230 --> 01:31:21,330
two years, no, three years ago.

2287
01:31:21,350 --> 01:31:22,830
I'm going to say, I'm going to tip

2288
01:31:22,830 --> 01:31:24,090
you in Satoshis.

2289
01:31:25,150 --> 01:31:27,690
And so she sends me a note saying,

2290
01:31:27,810 --> 01:31:30,850
hey, so I'm getting back into this now.

2291
01:31:30,950 --> 01:31:33,010
I'm trying to be hip with the kids.

2292
01:31:33,590 --> 01:31:35,710
And she has like over a million sats

2293
01:31:35,710 --> 01:31:36,950
from my tip.

2294
01:31:36,990 --> 01:31:37,330
Ooh.

2295
01:31:37,710 --> 01:31:39,750
And she's like, this is so cool.

2296
01:31:40,150 --> 01:31:41,650
Of course, when I was tipping her early

2297
01:31:41,650 --> 01:31:44,590
on, a million sats wasn't a thousand dollars.

2298
01:31:45,050 --> 01:31:46,350
It's like, this is so cool.

2299
01:31:46,430 --> 01:31:46,990
This is great.

2300
01:31:47,330 --> 01:31:49,430
I'm also investing in an XRP.

2301
01:31:49,790 --> 01:31:52,050
I'm like, oh goodness, oh goodness.

2302
01:31:52,890 --> 01:31:54,630
Investing in XRP.

2303
01:31:55,310 --> 01:31:57,910
Like now, so just keep those sats in

2304
01:31:57,910 --> 01:31:59,770
your wallet and then we'll talk in five

2305
01:31:59,770 --> 01:32:01,430
years and maybe you can buy a car.

2306
01:32:02,470 --> 01:32:02,630
Yeah.

2307
01:32:03,450 --> 01:32:03,970
So.

2308
01:32:05,510 --> 01:32:07,470
We got some PayPals.

2309
01:32:07,630 --> 01:32:07,870
Yes.

2310
01:32:07,870 --> 01:32:13,130
We got a one-off from theboysatrss.com,

2311
01:32:13,250 --> 01:32:13,830
Ben and Alberto.

2312
01:32:14,330 --> 01:32:14,710
Yes.

2313
01:32:15,910 --> 01:32:16,470
$777.

2314
01:32:17,010 --> 01:32:17,150
Bam.

2315
01:32:17,790 --> 01:32:21,270
Paula, shot caller, 20 inch blades, only in

2316
01:32:21,270 --> 01:32:21,710
Paula.

2317
01:32:22,570 --> 01:32:23,410
Thank you.

2318
01:32:23,590 --> 01:32:24,610
We love you guys.

2319
01:32:24,710 --> 01:32:25,450
Thank you so much.

2320
01:32:25,490 --> 01:32:26,630
We had a nice call with them.

2321
01:32:26,930 --> 01:32:29,570
Those guys, they're good guys, man.

2322
01:32:31,270 --> 01:32:32,390
Go podcasting.

2323
01:32:32,450 --> 01:32:33,490
Adam, see you in Dallas.

2324
01:32:33,610 --> 01:32:34,950
And Dave, we hope the other board meetings

2325
01:32:34,950 --> 01:32:36,970
are as smooth as a perfect wave.

2326
01:32:37,670 --> 01:32:40,570
Alberto and Ben and the rss.com team.

2327
01:32:40,770 --> 01:32:40,990
Yes.

2328
01:32:41,070 --> 01:32:42,970
Thank you, boys and girls from rss.com.

2329
01:32:43,070 --> 01:32:45,630
Thank you so much for keeping podcast index

2330
01:32:45,630 --> 01:32:46,050
rolling.

2331
01:32:47,390 --> 01:32:50,910
We got a nice one from Amy.

2332
01:32:51,670 --> 01:32:53,070
I don't know if she wants me to

2333
01:32:53,070 --> 01:32:53,650
use her last name.

2334
01:32:53,830 --> 01:32:56,270
So it's $100 from Amy.

2335
01:32:57,350 --> 01:32:57,650
Wow.

2336
01:32:57,810 --> 01:32:58,230
Hold on.

2337
01:32:58,570 --> 01:32:59,510
That's a bottle.

2338
01:33:00,350 --> 01:33:03,370
Paula, shot caller, 20 inch blades, only in

2339
01:33:03,370 --> 01:33:03,790
Paula.

2340
01:33:04,010 --> 01:33:04,610
Thank you, Amy.

2341
01:33:04,930 --> 01:33:06,190
What does Amy say?

2342
01:33:06,890 --> 01:33:09,590
She says, please credit this to Sir Dudechink

2343
01:33:10,210 --> 01:33:12,330
and wish him a happy birthday for August

2344
01:33:12,330 --> 01:33:13,070
14th.

2345
01:33:13,090 --> 01:33:14,610
Thanks from Dame Slammy.

2346
01:33:16,070 --> 01:33:18,050
Dame Slammy, I think it is actually.

2347
01:33:18,190 --> 01:33:19,290
Slammy, Dame Slammy.

2348
01:33:19,370 --> 01:33:19,830
I think so.

2349
01:33:19,890 --> 01:33:21,130
S-L-A-M-Y.

2350
01:33:21,230 --> 01:33:22,250
Thank you, Dame Slammy.

2351
01:33:22,310 --> 01:33:22,730
Awesome.

2352
01:33:22,990 --> 01:33:23,850
Thank you very much.

2353
01:33:24,650 --> 01:33:25,090
Love that.

2354
01:33:25,090 --> 01:33:25,690
Very appreciated.

2355
01:33:25,690 --> 01:33:26,430
Thank you.

2356
01:33:27,390 --> 01:33:28,970
Got some booster grams.

2357
01:33:29,270 --> 01:33:29,510
Let's see.

2358
01:33:29,850 --> 01:33:30,870
What do we got in the booster gram

2359
01:33:30,870 --> 01:33:31,250
department?

2360
01:33:31,430 --> 01:33:31,970
Booster grams.

2361
01:33:35,310 --> 01:33:36,870
Let me sort the old email.

2362
01:33:38,330 --> 01:33:39,070
Oldest first.

2363
01:33:39,250 --> 01:33:39,870
Is that Fauci?

2364
01:33:40,010 --> 01:33:40,610
That is Fauci.

2365
01:33:40,670 --> 01:33:41,430
That is Fauci.

2366
01:33:42,090 --> 01:33:42,490
Boost.

2367
01:33:43,010 --> 01:33:43,370
It's Fauci.

2368
01:33:43,930 --> 01:33:45,630
5,000 sats from Anonymous.

2369
01:33:45,790 --> 01:33:47,390
The podcast index says, keep up the great

2370
01:33:47,390 --> 01:33:47,650
work.

2371
01:33:47,790 --> 01:33:48,230
Thank you.

2372
01:33:48,510 --> 01:33:48,990
Appreciate that.

2373
01:33:48,990 --> 01:33:49,490
Thank you, Anonymous.

2374
01:33:50,550 --> 01:33:53,390
Mike Dale, 1701, Star Trek boost.

2375
01:33:54,010 --> 01:33:56,710
Through podcast guru, he said, I gave up

2376
01:33:56,710 --> 01:33:57,410
on Castamatic.

2377
01:33:57,510 --> 01:33:58,270
I'm trying guru.

2378
01:33:59,990 --> 01:34:00,750
Why'd you give up?

2379
01:34:00,750 --> 01:34:01,650
Why'd you give up, man?

2380
01:34:01,670 --> 01:34:02,190
It works.

2381
01:34:02,390 --> 01:34:03,230
What's up with that?

2382
01:34:05,090 --> 01:34:05,690
Let's see.

2383
01:34:05,770 --> 01:34:09,130
Did you get, today's August 15th, right?

2384
01:34:10,210 --> 01:34:11,290
Yes, August 15th.

2385
01:34:11,370 --> 01:34:13,890
I'm watching President Trump and President Putin both

2386
01:34:13,890 --> 01:34:17,610
come down the ladders of their individual aircraft

2387
01:34:18,130 --> 01:34:21,670
onto the tarmac at Alaska, moving towards each

2388
01:34:21,670 --> 01:34:21,830
other.

2389
01:34:21,950 --> 01:34:23,790
This is a seminal moment, ladies and gentlemen.

2390
01:34:24,490 --> 01:34:26,790
Will they be, who will do the power

2391
01:34:26,790 --> 01:34:27,410
handshake?

2392
01:34:27,490 --> 01:34:28,890
Who will have the power move?

2393
01:34:29,070 --> 01:34:30,150
Oh, I can put my glasses on so

2394
01:34:30,150 --> 01:34:31,330
I can watch on the quad screen.

2395
01:34:31,890 --> 01:34:33,970
No one else, the whole world has stopped

2396
01:34:33,970 --> 01:34:34,350
at this.

2397
01:34:34,350 --> 01:34:36,030
Where am I?

2398
01:34:37,090 --> 01:34:39,690
The whole world has stopped for this moment

2399
01:34:39,690 --> 01:34:43,310
as BBC World Service is here to witness

2400
01:34:43,310 --> 01:34:45,870
this incredibly historic event.

2401
01:34:46,150 --> 01:34:48,730
There he is, the President of Moscow, President

2402
01:34:48,730 --> 01:34:49,370
of Russia.

2403
01:34:49,770 --> 01:34:51,590
He is walking on the red carpet and

2404
01:34:51,590 --> 01:34:53,430
the President of the United States with his

2405
01:34:53,430 --> 01:34:55,190
tie, his red tie that is always a

2406
01:34:55,190 --> 01:34:55,990
little bit too long.

2407
01:34:56,230 --> 01:34:58,650
He is walking down as well and they're

2408
01:34:58,650 --> 01:34:59,410
looking at each other.

2409
01:34:59,550 --> 01:35:01,170
They are going at a nice pace.

2410
01:35:01,490 --> 01:35:03,410
Will they intersect right in front of those

2411
01:35:03,410 --> 01:35:06,270
beautiful, beautiful F-35 jets that are on

2412
01:35:06,270 --> 01:35:08,510
the tarmac in front of the Alaska 2025

2413
01:35:08,510 --> 01:35:09,230
sign?

2414
01:35:09,370 --> 01:35:10,890
Yes, it looks like they will.

2415
01:35:11,230 --> 01:35:12,710
All right, I'm waiting for it.

2416
01:35:13,730 --> 01:35:15,870
Putin is in the purple trunks.

2417
01:35:16,390 --> 01:35:18,310
Trump is in the green trunks.

2418
01:35:19,810 --> 01:35:21,990
Mere Mortals Podcast, that's our buddy Kyron over

2419
01:35:21,990 --> 01:35:23,830
there in the down unders.

2420
01:35:24,090 --> 01:35:26,710
Satchel Richards, 1111 through Fountain.

2421
01:35:27,170 --> 01:35:27,370
All right.

2422
01:35:28,010 --> 01:35:29,970
Kyron, he says, I finally caught back up

2423
01:35:29,970 --> 01:35:31,830
after traveling around Europe for a couple of

2424
01:35:31,830 --> 01:35:32,050
months.

2425
01:35:32,050 --> 01:35:36,010
Appreciate all the hard work and exciting new

2426
01:35:36,010 --> 01:35:36,590
developments.

2427
01:35:36,710 --> 01:35:37,550
Go podcasting.

2428
01:35:37,670 --> 01:35:39,350
Yeah, indeed, go podcasting.

2429
01:35:39,470 --> 01:35:40,910
And Kyron is a world traveler.

2430
01:35:41,110 --> 01:35:41,610
Yes, he is.

2431
01:35:41,750 --> 01:35:42,490
He is all over the place.

2432
01:35:42,630 --> 01:35:43,170
He's everywhere.

2433
01:35:44,070 --> 01:35:47,310
Bruce the Ugly Cracking Duck, 2222, RoaDucks through

2434
01:35:47,310 --> 01:35:47,910
Podcast Guru.

2435
01:35:48,490 --> 01:35:50,410
Maybe you could do a database record for

2436
01:35:50,410 --> 01:35:53,050
our government officials and remove all the duplicated

2437
01:35:53,050 --> 01:35:53,470
wasters.

2438
01:35:54,010 --> 01:35:56,850
Love, LOL, if only, a little sci-fi

2439
01:35:56,850 --> 01:35:57,850
there, 73s.

2440
01:35:58,690 --> 01:36:01,030
Hey, so Trump basically just stood on the

2441
01:36:01,030 --> 01:36:03,370
red carpet and Putin came towards him.

2442
01:36:04,250 --> 01:36:07,070
Power move, power move, power move.

2443
01:36:07,230 --> 01:36:08,810
Yeah, big power move.

2444
01:36:09,330 --> 01:36:13,250
That's just a different version of the grab

2445
01:36:13,250 --> 01:36:14,630
you by the shoulder when you do the

2446
01:36:14,630 --> 01:36:15,190
handshake.

2447
01:36:15,230 --> 01:36:16,750
Yeah, that was good.

2448
01:36:16,970 --> 01:36:19,450
Well, you know, Putin's like, yeah, it's good,

2449
01:36:19,550 --> 01:36:19,650
man.

2450
01:36:19,690 --> 01:36:21,330
I'll walk to you, I'm fine.

2451
01:36:24,110 --> 01:36:25,190
Comedy Strip Blogger.

2452
01:36:25,430 --> 01:36:27,210
Yeah, the delimiter, there he is.

2453
01:36:27,770 --> 01:36:30,110
12,615 sats through Fountain.

2454
01:36:30,350 --> 01:36:30,710
Nice.

2455
01:36:31,630 --> 01:36:32,670
Howdy, Dave and Adam.

2456
01:36:33,270 --> 01:36:35,430
Your president is meeting a Russian dictator in

2457
01:36:35,430 --> 01:36:40,040
Alaska today, so I would like to recommend

2458
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:44,360
a YouTube channel entitled Inside Russia so that

2459
01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:47,160
y'all, y'all, CSB said y'all.

2460
01:36:47,220 --> 01:36:51,420
Y'all, y'all, y'all.

2461
01:36:51,740 --> 01:36:56,300
So that y'all can learn the no

2462
01:36:56,300 --> 01:36:59,420
-nonsense, no-sick-of-fancy truth about Russia.

2463
01:36:59,810 --> 01:37:03,100
Go to YouTube, search for Inside Russia.

2464
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:06,580
Its host is Konstantin, who was living a

2465
01:37:06,580 --> 01:37:07,960
couple of years in the USA.

2466
01:37:08,560 --> 01:37:09,840
He's one of two wives.

2467
01:37:09,980 --> 01:37:10,260
What?

2468
01:37:10,380 --> 01:37:11,320
And he's two of six.

2469
01:37:11,340 --> 01:37:13,520
How many wives do you get?

2470
01:37:14,980 --> 01:37:16,580
Russia sounds like a bargain.

2471
01:37:19,380 --> 01:37:21,460
He's one of two wives, and his two

2472
01:37:21,460 --> 01:37:24,140
of six kids are American, so his English

2473
01:37:24,140 --> 01:37:24,860
is decent.

2474
01:37:25,220 --> 01:37:27,320
Sadly, no audio-only variant.

2475
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:28,680
Yo, CSB.

2476
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:30,140
CSB getting serious.

2477
01:37:30,540 --> 01:37:31,300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2478
01:37:31,300 --> 01:37:33,960
He's, he doesn't, he does not like the,

2479
01:37:34,020 --> 01:37:35,200
are they gonna get in the same car

2480
01:37:35,200 --> 01:37:35,520
together?

2481
01:37:35,640 --> 01:37:36,340
That's pretty cool.

2482
01:37:36,460 --> 01:37:36,700
Yeah.

2483
01:37:37,260 --> 01:37:39,680
Do you think, do you think Trump will

2484
01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:41,200
let Putin change the radio?

2485
01:37:41,200 --> 01:37:41,620
Drive, drive.

2486
01:37:41,740 --> 01:37:42,280
Change the radio?

2487
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:43,660
Change the station.

2488
01:37:45,320 --> 01:37:46,500
Hands off, stop it.

2489
01:37:46,780 --> 01:37:47,440
Don't touch my radio.

2490
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:51,100
Yeah, they're both getting in the beast.

2491
01:37:51,440 --> 01:37:51,880
Amazing.

2492
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:52,800
Oh, boy.

2493
01:37:52,980 --> 01:37:54,760
What times we live in, Brother Dave.

2494
01:37:54,820 --> 01:37:55,920
What times we live in.

2495
01:37:56,300 --> 01:37:57,260
We got some monthlies.

2496
01:37:57,260 --> 01:37:58,860
We got Christopher Harabarek, $10.

2497
01:37:59,300 --> 01:38:00,420
Mitch Downey, $10.

2498
01:38:01,440 --> 01:38:02,920
Terry Keller, $5.

2499
01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:05,360
Chris Cowan, $5.

2500
01:38:05,820 --> 01:38:08,240
Damon Kasejak, $15.

2501
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:09,860
Derek J.

2502
01:38:10,020 --> 01:38:12,580
Visker, the best name in podcasting, $21.

2503
01:38:13,120 --> 01:38:16,740
Paul Saltzman, $22.22. Thank you, Paul.

2504
01:38:17,280 --> 01:38:18,460
Jeremy Gerds, $5.

2505
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:21,100
New Media Show, that's Todd, $30.

2506
01:38:21,940 --> 01:38:26,320
Michael Hall, $5.50. And Gene Liverman, our

2507
01:38:26,320 --> 01:38:27,080
buddy Gene, $5.

2508
01:38:27,480 --> 01:38:28,440
Oh, awesome.

2509
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:31,160
Thank you all so much for supporting podcastindex

2510
01:38:31,160 --> 01:38:31,600
.org.

2511
01:38:31,660 --> 01:38:33,360
Whenever I tell people the story, they're like,

2512
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:35,140
really, people support that?

2513
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:37,480
I say, yes, yes, they do.

2514
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:39,460
Surprisingly, they do.

2515
01:38:40,040 --> 01:38:42,820
People actually give you real American dollars?

2516
01:38:43,180 --> 01:38:47,100
Yes, yes, and Satoshi's in big, what?

2517
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:48,020
Really, what?

2518
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:48,880
Yes.

2519
01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:52,520
Believe it or not, open source, complete open

2520
01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:54,340
projects like this can work.

2521
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:57,760
And this group, this entire group, everyone hanging

2522
01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:00,020
out at podcastindex.social, which, by the way,

2523
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:00,660
is open to all.

2524
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:02,220
If you want, just send us an email

2525
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:05,020
and we'll be happy to send you an

2526
01:39:05,020 --> 01:39:05,440
invite.

2527
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:09,580
Of course, it is federated across the Mastodon

2528
01:39:09,580 --> 01:39:13,640
infrastructure, so you can always follow and hit

2529
01:39:13,640 --> 01:39:14,820
that like button and subscribe.

2530
01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:18,880
You can follow and comment, and it does

2531
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:22,200
work across instances, but if you'd like to

2532
01:39:22,200 --> 01:39:23,800
be a closer part to it, you're more

2533
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:24,400
than welcome to.

2534
01:39:25,020 --> 01:39:27,080
Everything goes to podcastindex.org.

2535
01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:30,360
Everything stays within the confines of what we

2536
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:32,120
need for dedicated machines running.

2537
01:39:32,260 --> 01:39:33,640
It's quite a bit of infrastructure, as you

2538
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:35,460
can imagine, and we're happy to do it.

2539
01:39:35,660 --> 01:39:36,960
We do it as a public service.

2540
01:39:37,320 --> 01:39:38,380
If you'd like to support us, you can

2541
01:39:38,380 --> 01:39:40,160
boost us with the modern podcast apps.

2542
01:39:40,240 --> 01:39:43,460
Get those at podcastapps.com, or you can

2543
01:39:43,460 --> 01:39:44,760
go to podcastindex.org.

2544
01:39:44,860 --> 01:39:46,120
Down at the bottom, there's a big red

2545
01:39:46,120 --> 01:39:46,900
donate button.

2546
01:39:46,980 --> 01:39:48,720
Hit that, and it'll take you to the

2547
01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:52,660
PayPal page for your fiat fund coupons, and

2548
01:39:52,660 --> 01:39:55,400
we appreciate everyone who supports us, either with

2549
01:39:55,400 --> 01:39:56,720
time, talent, or treasure.

2550
01:39:57,780 --> 01:39:59,480
It's a value-for-value system.

2551
01:40:00,460 --> 01:40:02,080
All right, Brother Dave, you have a busy

2552
01:40:02,080 --> 01:40:02,460
weekend?

2553
01:40:02,860 --> 01:40:04,200
Are you doing anything?

2554
01:40:04,840 --> 01:40:08,660
It's actually my wife and I, it was

2555
01:40:08,660 --> 01:40:11,100
our 26th wedding anniversary yesterday.

2556
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:13,320
Wait, but you went into the woods for

2557
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:14,000
that, didn't you?

2558
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:14,960
You guys went into the woods?

2559
01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:16,820
That was for the 25th, which was actually

2560
01:40:16,820 --> 01:40:18,400
last year, but we didn't get to do

2561
01:40:18,400 --> 01:40:19,100
our 25th.

2562
01:40:19,100 --> 01:40:21,380
Big trip last year, so we did it

2563
01:40:21,380 --> 01:40:21,500
this year.

2564
01:40:21,500 --> 01:40:22,940
So this year, it's just sex, that's it?

2565
01:40:23,020 --> 01:40:23,580
Nothing else.

2566
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:25,440
Finally.

2567
01:40:27,380 --> 01:40:29,040
It's been 26 years.

2568
01:40:31,680 --> 01:40:33,980
All right, everybody, we know what Dave's doing.

2569
01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:34,900
What will you be doing?

2570
01:40:35,220 --> 01:40:37,520
You'll join us here next week for Podcasting

2571
01:40:37,520 --> 01:40:46,740
2.0. Podcasting 2.0.

2572
01:40:46,940 --> 01:40:53,140
Podcasts are cool.

2573
01:40:53,800 --> 01:40:57,080
You hope you have been listening to Podcasting

2574
01:40:57,080 --> 01:41:01,800
2.0. Visit podcastindex.org for more information.

2575
01:41:02,220 --> 01:41:03,700
Go podcasting!

2576
01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:06,000
It's too much teasing.