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Podcasting 2.0 for August 22nd, 2025, episode

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231.

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Keep publishing.

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Hello everybody, welcome to Podcasting 2.0. We

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are the official spot to find out what's

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really happening in podcasting.

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We don't hold back on anything.

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We've got the down, the dirty, everything you

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need to know.

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We are in fact the boardroom.

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This is where it all happens.

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And on that, we're the only boardroom that

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was at the Podcast Standards Project meeting.

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I'm Adam Curry, here in the heart of

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the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the

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man who attends all the meetings while holding

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down two jobs and going to school.

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Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones.

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Exactly what episode number was this again?

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Did I say it?

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231.

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You said.

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Yeah, well you won't hear that because that's

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just the fake opening.

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And then once we have a show title,

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I actually expertly edit a new opening on

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to every episode.

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So it's like, wow, he already knew the

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show.

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They know what they're gonna talk about before

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they even did it.

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That's amazing.

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It's magic.

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It's totally magic.

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Welcome to episode 231.

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Hey, Dave Jones, how you doing?

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Good.

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Okay, great.

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That's it everybody.

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See you next week.

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You call me.

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Mid mix swallow, yes, yes, yes, yes.

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Hello boardroom.

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Good to see y'all.

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Good to have everybody here in the board

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meeting.

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Is Nathan back?

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Who's back?

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Because I saw a few of the board

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members in Dallas.

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Who did you see?

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I need a full report.

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You need a report, yes.

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But can I guide the report though?

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Yeah, I would like to guide the report.

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Okay, I'm not sure what that means, but

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I'll fly with you.

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Go ahead.

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Okay, what it means, I would like to

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know, first of all, who did you see

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in person?

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In person?

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Well, of course, Rocky Thomas.

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Oh yeah, Rocky.

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She was the first person I saw, because

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you know me, I'm a baby, and I'm

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like, hey, listen, when I show up, because

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I was flying in in the morning, and

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I've been to the Gaylord hotels, and if

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you don't know where you're going, you can

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get very lost.

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And below 5,000 feet, I'm pretty bad

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with directions anyway.

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So I said, Rocky, can you send someone

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to meet me at the front door?

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And she was there, she was standing right

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there.

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With a limo, with a limo.

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Well, I stepped out of the limo.

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She had the bodyguards, everything ready to go.

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Right away, I think Ben and Alberto and

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Rob Kirkpatrick, so Ben and Alberto from rss

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.com, we walked in, Rocky's husband, Sean, who's

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a member of the whole big streaming conglomerate.

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Yeah, the PSE.

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The, see, James Cridlin, saw James.

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By the way, James, you know, I forgot

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about this.

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Very tall.

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He's handsome.

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He's a handsome man.

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Oh, that's not what I was going to

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say.

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I was just going to say tall.

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He's a handsome man.

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Yeah, he's a very handsome fellow.

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Todd Cochran, another handsome fellow.

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Daniel J.

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Lewis, I'm going to forget half the people,

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of course.

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The boys from Buzzsprout?

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Saw the boys from Buzzsprout.

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Saw Nathan, Nathan G.

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Saw- Spurlock, I'm sure you saw Spurlock.

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I did not see Spurlock.

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Oh, he wasn't there?

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No, I don't think he was there.

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But why would he?

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There's no reason to be there.

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I was only there just to, you know,

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just to plug in.

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One of these days we'll have to ask

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him.

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Yeah, one of these days we'll ask him

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if he was there.

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Oh, goodness.

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I know him.

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Ted, Ted Haussmann from the Apples, he was

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there.

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Oh, man, a lot of people, a lot

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of people were there.

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And yeah, so, you know, I hustled in.

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You know, the whole headphone thing?

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Justin Jackson from Transistor, I'm sure Justin was

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there.

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Justin was there.

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I saw Justin.

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Well, I, so I wound up, you know,

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you're not guiding me anymore, so I'll just

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take the reins.

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I was just, I was just letting you,

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I'm guiding you into, this part of the

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guiding is, freestyle, do whatever you'd like.

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Well, first of all, I'm on the WhatsApp

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groups, the WhatsApp groups, the- Oh, man,

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I'm so glad I'm not on that.

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Oh, yeah, no, this is fantastic.

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And the WhatsApp group, there was one for

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the podcast movement.

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There was a WhatsApp group and I joined

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it.

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And, you know, everyone's nerding out and they're

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like, oh, look how many steps.

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Everyone's counting their steps.

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They're all part of the Borg.

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And they're like, oh, how many steps have

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you done?

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How many steps?

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Then they're going back forth.

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Now, my plan was only to come in

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for one day and go out, cause I'm

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plenty busy, you know, podfather business.

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So, I hooked my buddy, Mitch Maverick, the

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periodontist, he hooked me up with his plane.

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You know, with the jet.

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Well, it is a turbo prop, so it

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is a turbine engine, but it still has

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a massive propeller on it.

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And Jay flew, cause I'm not qualified on

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the powerful machine like that.

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How was the flight, by the way?

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Smooth?

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Comfortable?

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45 minutes from the airport, five minutes from

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my house.

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I mean, you can't beat that going to

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Dallas, which is a five hour drive, five

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hour drive.

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And you literally land at Addison airport and

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you pull up to the FBO, the field

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-based operator, and it's called Million Air.

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I mean, does it get any better than

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that?

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No, beautiful.

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Hey ladies, how are you doing?

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Got any coffee for me?

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I'm just going to freshen up here in

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the lounge.

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So everyone's, and by the way, Starlink is

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on the plane.

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So I'm, you know, I'm doing stuff on

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the, I'm sitting in the back.

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I'm doing stuff on the internet.

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You're vibe coding.

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You're vibe coding in the back.

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I'm vibe coding in the back.

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And I see everyone talking about their steps.

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So I post a picture of me in

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the back of the plane.

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I'm like, these are my steps.

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Flex.

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Big flex.

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Anyway, so Rocky and I did on the

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sound stack stage, Rocky and I did a,

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you know, like a fireside chat.

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Now you have to imagine.

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This is the headphone thing.

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Yeah, but you have to, it's very interesting.

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So it's a huge hall with carpet, which

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for any trade show is incredibly welcomed and

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appreciated and important.

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So you don't, you know, if you're walking

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on cement, you know, you're going to be

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very tired at the end of the day.

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So really nice plush carpeting.

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And just imagine there's maybe seven stages all

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in this big room in different locations, all

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completely open.

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So just a backdrop, chairs in the front,

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standing room.

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And when you come in, everybody gets a

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pair of headphones and the headphones have three

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controls, on, off, volume knob, and a channel

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selector, which the outside of the headsets illuminate

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in the color white, green, red, purple, or

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blue.

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And that signifies the channel.

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So if you want to listen to our,

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if you want to listen to our fireside

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chat, you had to be on the white

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channel, which I did remark was rather racist

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of everybody.

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And I thought this would be the worst

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experience ever.

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It is hands down the best thing I've

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ever witnessed.

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It was- Yes, because we're sitting on

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stage, we have hand mics and you have

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the headphones on yourself, but it's almost-

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I'm seeing a picture of you right now,

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yeah.

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It's almost- You and Rocky.

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Yeah, it's almost like you're doing a podcast

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with everybody in the room because they all

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have the headphones on.

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First of all, you can make, you can

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see everyone's listening to you because if someone

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had a different color, you know, you call

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them out like a body catcher.

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You're like, hey, you're red, get out of

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here.

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But because of that, everybody's engaged.

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You know, I've been on lots of stages

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and you're always looking at the audience and

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you try to, there's always one or two

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people you catch their eye, you know, you

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might look to them a couple of times

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because they smile back or they laugh at

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all your jokes, very encouraging.

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But there's always people like on their phone,

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looking away, talking to their neighbor, none of

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that.

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And then we do Q&A and, you

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know, there was a lady there and she

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was handing out the mic and it was,

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you could hear them perfectly.

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They could hear me.

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It was an incredible experience.

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Yes, and then later I walked to the

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stage where James was interviewing the guy from

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Coat Hanger.

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What is that?

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Goal Hanger.

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I think Coat Hanger is better.

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Coat Hanger.

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And I was standing way in the back

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behind all of the chairs and they had

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the headphones on, just switch it to their

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channel.

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You could hear perfectly.

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It was very enjoyable experience.

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As much as I always like an amplified

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room, I mean, I get it.

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I'm all in.

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I apologize for being negative about it.

277
00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:22,360
I mean, I was too.

278
00:09:22,580 --> 00:09:25,440
Just hearing it described, you're like, oh, this

279
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:26,080
is a train wreck.

280
00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,600
But evidently in person, it works.

281
00:09:30,340 --> 00:09:32,640
Eric PP says, how did they handle applause?

282
00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:34,780
Well, yeah, there's no applause.

283
00:09:34,940 --> 00:09:35,640
No one applauds.

284
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:37,960
You can't hear them applauding.

285
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,200
It's like, you can see people's hands moving,

286
00:09:41,300 --> 00:09:42,240
but you don't hear anything.

287
00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,020
And because it was a big open room,

288
00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:47,660
applause doesn't really carry that far.

289
00:09:47,740 --> 00:09:49,460
And with the carpeting and everything, it doesn't

290
00:09:49,460 --> 00:09:50,100
bounce around.

291
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:56,840
Then had lunch with the RSS boys, which

292
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:57,520
is kind of funny.

293
00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:58,820
Like, come on, we'll take you to a

294
00:09:58,820 --> 00:09:59,420
steak dinner.

295
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:00,600
My restaurant's closed.

296
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:01,980
Well, we'll go to the Italian place.

297
00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:02,820
Restaurant's closed.

298
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:04,500
But we'll maybe we can get some bar

299
00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:05,140
food over here.

300
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:06,180
Bar closed.

301
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,220
I'm gonna say, there's the marketplace, which is

302
00:10:09,220 --> 00:10:11,400
basically stand in line, grab a sandwich.

303
00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:12,120
And that was perfect.

304
00:10:12,420 --> 00:10:12,600
The food court.

305
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:13,640
Yes, the food court.

306
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:15,500
That was perfect.

307
00:10:15,660 --> 00:10:17,100
And then they said, well, why don't you

308
00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:19,460
come over to the PSP meeting, the Podcast

309
00:10:19,460 --> 00:10:20,380
Standards Project?

310
00:10:21,060 --> 00:10:22,200
That was interesting.

311
00:10:24,020 --> 00:10:26,100
Now, I think they were doing a couple

312
00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:26,520
of these.

313
00:10:26,660 --> 00:10:28,300
They had one the previous day.

314
00:10:28,660 --> 00:10:31,860
This is, you know, so it's a nice

315
00:10:31,860 --> 00:10:34,080
room and everybody sat in a big circle

316
00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,280
and held hands and shared a secret.

317
00:10:40,620 --> 00:10:43,560
And Justin from Transistor was kind of running

318
00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:45,440
it, which was, he's very good at that.

319
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,400
And it was an interesting vibe, I would

320
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:50,840
say.

321
00:10:52,300 --> 00:10:54,600
Almost immediately, you know, well, let's talk about

322
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,620
HLS and video and streaming and video and

323
00:10:56,620 --> 00:10:58,040
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, video,

324
00:10:58,180 --> 00:10:59,480
video, video, video, video, video.

325
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:01,720
Now, this was an open session though.

326
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,740
This was not like a closed door meeting

327
00:11:03,740 --> 00:11:04,340
of the PSP.

328
00:11:04,340 --> 00:11:06,740
No, no, anybody could come in and-

329
00:11:06,740 --> 00:11:07,220
Okay, good.

330
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,320
And, you know, see Rob Walsh was there.

331
00:11:09,420 --> 00:11:10,320
Todd was there.

332
00:11:10,460 --> 00:11:12,700
The RSS guys, Buzzsprout guys.

333
00:11:12,700 --> 00:11:15,280
I'm sure I missed many others.

334
00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:19,400
But, you know, obviously they focused on the

335
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:19,900
video.

336
00:11:20,100 --> 00:11:21,920
They're talking about all these different things and

337
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,400
the protocols.

338
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,160
It could be all agree on one type

339
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,820
of encoder and et cetera, et cetera.

340
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,280
And someone said, hey, Adam, since you're here,

341
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:34,300
what are your thoughts?

342
00:11:36,460 --> 00:11:37,480
On video?

343
00:11:37,980 --> 00:11:38,540
Yeah.

344
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:39,620
Buckle up.

345
00:11:39,820 --> 00:11:41,660
Yeah, I said, well, honestly, I think you're

346
00:11:41,660 --> 00:11:43,400
all wasting your time and money, but it's

347
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:43,680
okay.

348
00:11:43,820 --> 00:11:46,680
You can podcast PDFs for all I care.

349
00:11:47,140 --> 00:11:49,160
He said, I'm more interested in lit.

350
00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:50,000
That's where I think.

351
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:51,460
And then it kind of went to the,

352
00:11:51,860 --> 00:11:53,780
well, we can do a lit over HLS.

353
00:11:54,820 --> 00:11:57,620
At a certain point, the one thing that

354
00:11:57,620 --> 00:12:01,040
was interesting is, you know, so what is

355
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,820
your concept of what the Podcast Standards Project

356
00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:04,260
is?

357
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,060
What are they supposed to be doing?

358
00:12:07,060 --> 00:12:10,820
My understanding, the way I see the Podcast

359
00:12:10,820 --> 00:12:15,080
Standards Project is as a way to wrangle

360
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:21,320
the hosting companies to support a base set

361
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,860
of 2.0 tags.

362
00:12:25,260 --> 00:12:27,260
I've always seen it as a way to

363
00:12:27,260 --> 00:12:29,460
get the hosting companies on the same page

364
00:12:29,460 --> 00:12:34,220
so that the hosting companies define the way

365
00:12:34,220 --> 00:12:36,240
that they're going to move forward in phases

366
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,320
to adopt next generation podcasting tags.

367
00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:39,900
Agreed.

368
00:12:39,980 --> 00:12:41,900
And I think that was the general idea.

369
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,060
But what happened pretty soon, and someone actually

370
00:12:45,060 --> 00:12:46,720
said, hold on a second, what's going on

371
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:46,940
here?

372
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,440
They were agreeing on certain standards, you know,

373
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,660
certain tags that will be implemented.

374
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:54,420
And then it's like, okay, well, that'll be

375
00:12:54,420 --> 00:12:55,920
optional and that'll be optional.

376
00:12:56,420 --> 00:12:57,820
And someone said, well, what's the point?

377
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,380
If we're sitting here agreeing on things, but

378
00:13:00,380 --> 00:13:01,060
it's optional.

379
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,840
You know, and then I was getting pings

380
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:05,480
from the pilot.

381
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,300
He's like, you know, unless you want to

382
00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:09,420
wait, we can go now and go in

383
00:13:09,420 --> 00:13:10,440
between the storms.

384
00:13:11,740 --> 00:13:13,220
Oh, yeah, that's a good idea.

385
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,220
Because everything was backed up and you know,

386
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,680
the ATC was routing people around and we're

387
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:21,880
small compared to some of the massive jets

388
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:22,500
that are out there.

389
00:13:22,540 --> 00:13:23,700
And I guess they have priority.

390
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,540
So I had to leave at four to

391
00:13:26,540 --> 00:13:27,860
get back to leave.

392
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,120
And I was, you know, we got back

393
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:30,420
home.

394
00:13:30,420 --> 00:13:30,940
I was happy.

395
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:31,980
I was happy to be home.

396
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:33,580
I'm glad I didn't stay overnight.

397
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,460
Because, you know, it would have meant, because

398
00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:37,420
it was like 9.45, our session.

399
00:13:37,540 --> 00:13:38,420
So I would have had to go up

400
00:13:38,420 --> 00:13:40,440
Tuesday, stay overnight.

401
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,080
They probably would have wait until Thursday, but

402
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,320
I couldn't do that because I got the

403
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:44,560
show.

404
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:47,900
So anyway, thank you, Maverick, for the lending

405
00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:48,620
me your plane.

406
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,380
You did not tell me it drinks 60

407
00:13:51,380 --> 00:13:53,900
gallons of jet fuel an hour, but okay.

408
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,100
You said, I'll chip in for fuel.

409
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,540
And you're like, oh crap, I should have

410
00:13:58,540 --> 00:13:58,900
done that.

411
00:13:58,980 --> 00:14:00,260
I'll pay for fuel, of course.

412
00:14:00,260 --> 00:14:00,920
That's what I said.

413
00:14:00,940 --> 00:14:01,740
I'll pay for fuel.

414
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,360
Cheap, a little bit cheaper than two nights

415
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:05,240
of hotel room.

416
00:14:05,740 --> 00:14:06,860
Well, that's not bad.

417
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,280
Yeah, so it was good.

418
00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:10,860
It was nice to be, everyone asked where

419
00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:11,660
you were, of course.

420
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:12,840
How could, where's Dave here?

421
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,380
How can we get Dave?

422
00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:16,420
Dave's not here, man.

423
00:14:16,580 --> 00:14:17,500
Dave's not coming.

424
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:19,940
Dave's not going to come to this partay.

425
00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:23,060
That would have been a train wreck.

426
00:14:23,740 --> 00:14:23,980
Yeah.

427
00:14:24,780 --> 00:14:31,300
Well, so the, so the PSP stuff did,

428
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,320
when somebody said, if it's, when somebody mentioned

429
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,480
it about the sort of ineffectiveness of things

430
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,140
being optional, did that change the room at

431
00:14:40,140 --> 00:14:40,280
all?

432
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,360
Did they say, well, let's actually enforce some

433
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:43,660
things?

434
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:44,940
Yeah, I think so.

435
00:14:45,460 --> 00:14:47,960
But that was just a little bit before

436
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:48,620
I left.

437
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,400
So I wasn't there for the conclusion.

438
00:14:51,940 --> 00:14:54,060
You know what, what I did say, though,

439
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,560
is I said, I just have to stop

440
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:57,040
for a second.

441
00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,240
And say, we are a quarter of a

442
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,140
century on.

443
00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:06,480
And I am so delighted to see this

444
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:06,800
room.

445
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,500
I'm just, I just love everybody who's here.

446
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,520
I love that you're in it, that you're

447
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,320
all trying to get something going together.

448
00:15:14,540 --> 00:15:19,300
It was truly, I almost choked up a

449
00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:19,700
little bit.

450
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,180
It's just like, wow, look at all these

451
00:15:21,180 --> 00:15:22,180
smart people.

452
00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:24,620
You know, have all gotten into different, because

453
00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:25,940
you always have app guys there.

454
00:15:25,940 --> 00:15:29,200
They're all gotten into different areas of podcasting.

455
00:15:29,260 --> 00:15:31,020
They all really want to make it work.

456
00:15:31,460 --> 00:15:34,920
There's still an inordinate amount of, well, we

457
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,000
want to adopt these, so Apple and Spotify

458
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:37,900
will adopt them.

459
00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:40,620
That would, to me is like, we're still

460
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:41,360
doing this.

461
00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:43,440
Who cares?

462
00:15:43,860 --> 00:15:45,220
You know, that's me, obviously.

463
00:15:46,020 --> 00:15:47,540
But, you know, and I think I said,

464
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,480
look, if you publish, eventually it'll happen.

465
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,500
Just keep publishing.

466
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:54,400
That's just how it works.

467
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,960
Make the content, keep publishing.

468
00:15:57,660 --> 00:16:00,480
We have many apps that already understand it.

469
00:16:01,140 --> 00:16:02,900
You know, Pocket Cast is not small.

470
00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:06,280
You know, they're adopting tags.

471
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:07,920
Just keep on it, keep publishing.

472
00:16:08,180 --> 00:16:11,600
Just keep publishing because it always, these things

473
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,140
come from the bottom up.

474
00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:15,860
There's, you know, there's always some software engineer

475
00:16:15,860 --> 00:16:17,720
like, hey, what's this thing?

476
00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:19,700
Where can I put that?

477
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,040
And then all of a sudden it shows

478
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,620
up and then someone in management goes, wow,

479
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:25,500
you did that?

480
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:26,460
You used a promotion.

481
00:16:28,540 --> 00:16:31,220
That's one of the things I want to

482
00:16:31,220 --> 00:16:35,200
talk to Spurlock about too is the HLS

483
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:36,540
stuff, because I know he's working on some

484
00:16:36,540 --> 00:16:37,400
stuff as well.

485
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:39,560
And I want to see it work.

486
00:16:40,180 --> 00:16:42,140
I mean, I want to see it work.

487
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:43,280
If we have, I mean, if we can

488
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,260
make a viable alternative to, you know, an

489
00:16:47,260 --> 00:16:51,180
open distributed alternative for finding video content, even,

490
00:16:52,460 --> 00:16:54,000
look, you'll never replicate YouTube.

491
00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:57,960
You just can't because you can't replicate the

492
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,200
money losing- Yes, thank you.

493
00:17:02,740 --> 00:17:05,119
Financial incentives that it produces.

494
00:17:06,380 --> 00:17:09,599
It's just, it's a thing that exists.

495
00:17:13,310 --> 00:17:15,770
Well, here's one of the fears that they

496
00:17:15,770 --> 00:17:17,150
had, which I thought was valid.

497
00:17:17,609 --> 00:17:19,770
It's like, well, if we start doing this

498
00:17:19,770 --> 00:17:23,210
and by the way, the general consensus is

499
00:17:23,210 --> 00:17:26,930
to have video in the alternative enclosure, which

500
00:17:26,930 --> 00:17:27,850
I think is very interesting.

501
00:17:28,050 --> 00:17:28,830
Yes, that's the right way to do it.

502
00:17:28,830 --> 00:17:29,770
I love that.

503
00:17:30,010 --> 00:17:30,590
I love that.

504
00:17:30,690 --> 00:17:32,070
I think that's a great idea.

505
00:17:32,850 --> 00:17:34,630
And everyone seems to be on board with

506
00:17:34,630 --> 00:17:34,870
that.

507
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:39,190
But everyone realizes that, well, you know, if

508
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:41,550
we push this, Apple's probably going to do

509
00:17:41,550 --> 00:17:43,630
video, but you'll have to upload your video

510
00:17:43,630 --> 00:17:45,350
to iTunes Connect.

511
00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:47,830
And I think there's a very real danger

512
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:48,390
of that.

513
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:50,230
Very typical.

514
00:17:51,810 --> 00:17:53,750
See, Apple, the reason- I don't know,

515
00:17:53,890 --> 00:17:54,410
I disagree.

516
00:17:54,610 --> 00:17:55,930
I don't think that's accurate.

517
00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:58,230
I disagree with that.

518
00:17:59,110 --> 00:18:00,870
The reason I disagree with it is because

519
00:18:00,870 --> 00:18:01,950
they do video already.

520
00:18:02,670 --> 00:18:05,610
They already support video in a very inefficient

521
00:18:05,610 --> 00:18:05,910
way.

522
00:18:05,970 --> 00:18:07,910
We need to bring the guest in because

523
00:18:07,910 --> 00:18:08,850
this is some tech talk.

524
00:18:08,970 --> 00:18:10,670
Ladies and gentlemen, let's get into the tech

525
00:18:10,670 --> 00:18:10,910
talk.

526
00:18:11,010 --> 00:18:12,390
Let's bring in our special guest.

527
00:18:12,510 --> 00:18:14,230
We talked about him on the last board

528
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:15,710
meeting and yes, there he is.

529
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:16,970
He jumped at the occasion.

530
00:18:17,130 --> 00:18:18,950
Oh my goodness, I can't believe I'm being

531
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:19,950
involved in the bar drum.

532
00:18:20,050 --> 00:18:20,990
Here I come, ladies and gentlemen.

533
00:18:20,990 --> 00:18:24,310
He is behind op3.dev and many more

534
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:30,350
podcasting 2.0, podcastindex.socialprojects. Please welcome John

535
00:18:30,350 --> 00:18:31,450
Spurlock.

536
00:18:32,750 --> 00:18:34,890
Yeah, I took my own private jet as

537
00:18:34,890 --> 00:18:35,630
soon as I heard.

538
00:18:35,730 --> 00:18:36,830
It took me a week to get here,

539
00:18:36,930 --> 00:18:37,550
but I'm glad to be here.

540
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:39,750
You rushed over, yes.

541
00:18:40,990 --> 00:18:41,470
Hey, John.

542
00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:43,830
I only spent 30 bucks a gallon.

543
00:18:45,130 --> 00:18:45,890
Oh, no.

544
00:18:47,070 --> 00:18:49,870
Hey, you weren't there, were you, at Podcast

545
00:18:49,870 --> 00:18:50,210
Movement?

546
00:18:51,210 --> 00:18:52,830
No, as soon as, so we lived in

547
00:18:52,830 --> 00:18:55,390
Dallas for eight years and we recently moved

548
00:18:55,390 --> 00:18:57,050
and so I was actually happy to hear

549
00:18:57,050 --> 00:18:59,390
that it's going to be New York going

550
00:18:59,390 --> 00:18:59,750
forward.

551
00:18:59,890 --> 00:19:01,390
Yeah, so we're in New Jersey now.

552
00:19:01,530 --> 00:19:02,290
We're in central New Jersey.

553
00:19:02,550 --> 00:19:03,270
Where, where in New Jersey?

554
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:03,790
That's a big move.

555
00:19:03,970 --> 00:19:04,690
Where in New Jersey?

556
00:19:06,010 --> 00:19:08,350
Sort of central Jersey, so like the farmland,

557
00:19:08,430 --> 00:19:08,810
basically.

558
00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:10,230
I wanted to kind of like move out

559
00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:11,050
as far as I could.

560
00:19:11,170 --> 00:19:12,850
You could tell me the town or the

561
00:19:12,850 --> 00:19:13,790
general county.

562
00:19:14,030 --> 00:19:15,550
I mean, I lived in New Jersey for

563
00:19:15,550 --> 00:19:16,270
12 years.

564
00:19:17,450 --> 00:19:18,990
So you know where Bedminster is?

565
00:19:18,990 --> 00:19:20,490
It's kind of like a little bit south

566
00:19:20,490 --> 00:19:21,410
of that, basically.

567
00:19:22,030 --> 00:19:24,190
So sort of nearer to Princeton, but she

568
00:19:24,190 --> 00:19:26,930
got a job in New Brunswick, which is

569
00:19:26,930 --> 00:19:30,250
Rutgers, which is their big college sort of

570
00:19:30,250 --> 00:19:30,830
there.

571
00:19:31,030 --> 00:19:34,470
So it's like, yeah, horrible bandwidth, but it's

572
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:35,390
really pretty out here.

573
00:19:35,450 --> 00:19:38,010
People don't understand that when they say New

574
00:19:38,010 --> 00:19:40,610
Jersey is the garden state, it's really true.

575
00:19:40,810 --> 00:19:42,830
New Jersey is beautiful.

576
00:19:43,410 --> 00:19:44,110
It's beautiful.

577
00:19:44,290 --> 00:19:46,870
People always say, ah, New Jersey, me, me,

578
00:19:46,890 --> 00:19:47,130
me.

579
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:48,670
It is stunning.

580
00:19:49,270 --> 00:19:51,190
And it has seasons, like nothing against Texas,

581
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:53,170
but it's basically like, I mean, you're in

582
00:19:53,170 --> 00:19:55,210
an oven in the summer, but there's really

583
00:19:55,210 --> 00:19:56,550
not as much nature, right?

584
00:19:56,550 --> 00:19:58,650
So it's like, I love seasons and it's

585
00:19:58,650 --> 00:19:59,530
really great.

586
00:19:59,530 --> 00:20:00,850
Again, except for the bandwidth.

587
00:20:01,070 --> 00:20:04,530
So we have Xfinity here instead of ridiculous,

588
00:20:04,750 --> 00:20:06,470
like 10 gig up and down that we

589
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:06,870
had in.

590
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:09,410
Well, have you tried Starling?

591
00:20:09,550 --> 00:20:11,770
Because I mean, we only use it as

592
00:20:11,770 --> 00:20:14,290
a backup because I've got five gig up

593
00:20:14,290 --> 00:20:19,150
and down fiber, but Starling is surprisingly good.

594
00:20:19,470 --> 00:20:20,350
Surprisingly good.

595
00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:21,750
As a backup, you know, we got the

596
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:22,190
generator.

597
00:20:22,370 --> 00:20:23,570
So we're going, you know, we're ready.

598
00:20:23,710 --> 00:20:24,090
We're ready.

599
00:20:24,590 --> 00:20:27,310
Do you have a landing strip?

600
00:20:28,650 --> 00:20:30,410
We actually, we have enough room in the

601
00:20:30,410 --> 00:20:32,310
back that we could actually, we just need

602
00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:32,650
the plane.

603
00:20:32,890 --> 00:20:36,570
Well, if you mow it, I'll come in.

604
00:20:37,410 --> 00:20:38,810
Mow a strip for me, baby.

605
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:40,110
There's a soybean.

606
00:20:40,350 --> 00:20:42,010
I'm looking at a soybean field here.

607
00:20:42,090 --> 00:20:43,610
So if you land there in the off

608
00:20:43,610 --> 00:20:44,390
season, it could work.

609
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:45,430
Soybeans are soft.

610
00:20:45,710 --> 00:20:46,570
Yeah, you can make that work.

611
00:20:47,130 --> 00:20:48,850
You heard the new, so it's going to

612
00:20:48,850 --> 00:20:49,790
be in New York now.

613
00:20:50,130 --> 00:20:51,910
So podcast movement going forward is going to

614
00:20:51,910 --> 00:20:52,730
be in New York City.

615
00:20:55,570 --> 00:20:56,210
Yeah, exactly.

616
00:20:56,550 --> 00:20:57,710
But at least I'll be able to drive

617
00:20:57,710 --> 00:20:59,530
if I want to go, so.

618
00:20:59,690 --> 00:21:00,310
It's two and a half, two and a

619
00:21:00,310 --> 00:21:00,410
half hours.

620
00:21:00,410 --> 00:21:01,490
But I'm really glad to hear that.

621
00:21:02,350 --> 00:21:04,010
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

622
00:21:04,130 --> 00:21:05,030
Well, I'm glad you had a good time

623
00:21:05,030 --> 00:21:05,150
though.

624
00:21:05,230 --> 00:21:06,010
That sounds good.

625
00:21:06,190 --> 00:21:08,190
It was perfect for me.

626
00:21:08,330 --> 00:21:09,870
I mean, that's exactly, I wanted to see

627
00:21:09,870 --> 00:21:12,310
everybody who I could see and hug everybody.

628
00:21:12,370 --> 00:21:14,290
And that was perfect.

629
00:21:15,010 --> 00:21:15,890
It was nice.

630
00:21:15,930 --> 00:21:16,950
It was nice to be there.

631
00:21:18,570 --> 00:21:19,830
And yeah, it was good.

632
00:21:20,350 --> 00:21:21,310
Yeah, the old Edison Airport.

633
00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:23,050
I think Nathan's from around there too, but

634
00:21:23,050 --> 00:21:24,670
that's about where we lived in Dallas, sort

635
00:21:24,670 --> 00:21:25,970
of that Northeast sort of area.

636
00:21:26,250 --> 00:21:28,290
Another beautiful area of the Texas.

637
00:21:28,290 --> 00:21:29,750
Nathan's in Chicago though, right?

638
00:21:30,350 --> 00:21:31,450
He's in Chicago now.

639
00:21:31,650 --> 00:21:33,070
Now he is, yeah, I believe so.

640
00:21:33,070 --> 00:21:33,990
Yeah, okay, I believe so.

641
00:21:35,310 --> 00:21:36,710
Yeah, but I disagree.

642
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:43,850
I disagree that Apple would somehow force people

643
00:21:43,850 --> 00:21:46,090
to upload video through iTunes Connect.

644
00:21:47,150 --> 00:21:48,050
I mean, I just don't think that-

645
00:21:48,050 --> 00:21:49,490
Can I just give you the reason why

646
00:21:49,490 --> 00:21:50,210
I say that?

647
00:21:50,650 --> 00:21:51,190
Okay.

648
00:21:51,530 --> 00:21:54,350
The reason why Apple is so slow with

649
00:21:54,350 --> 00:21:56,130
everything is part of their DNA.

650
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:58,950
They care about one thing and one thing

651
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:59,270
only.

652
00:21:59,410 --> 00:22:03,190
They want the most outstanding experience for their

653
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:07,270
customer, which is why they haven't put a

654
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:10,270
full-on AI LLM into their product because

655
00:22:10,270 --> 00:22:12,010
they know it sucks.

656
00:22:12,430 --> 00:22:15,450
And they've published research papers on it.

657
00:22:15,490 --> 00:22:17,150
And they're just like, you know, we'll take

658
00:22:17,150 --> 00:22:17,590
the heat.

659
00:22:17,730 --> 00:22:19,750
We'll take the loss on the stock market,

660
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:22,890
but this hype is not good enough for

661
00:22:22,890 --> 00:22:24,170
our customers right now.

662
00:22:24,290 --> 00:22:27,070
So if there's any, if they go heavy

663
00:22:27,070 --> 00:22:29,150
on video, and yes, I agree that it

664
00:22:29,150 --> 00:22:30,270
already does video.

665
00:22:30,270 --> 00:22:32,070
They really don't promote it that way.

666
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:34,570
But if they go heavy and say, hey,

667
00:22:34,930 --> 00:22:37,110
we're really doing video now, and we're an

668
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:43,250
alternative, they are more concerned about the experience

669
00:22:43,250 --> 00:22:46,430
for their customer than being part of an

670
00:22:46,430 --> 00:22:48,230
open ecosystem, in my opinion.

671
00:22:48,890 --> 00:22:50,590
Well, let me counter that because I think

672
00:22:50,590 --> 00:22:51,550
that- Pirate.

673
00:22:52,150 --> 00:22:55,530
I think that this is one of those

674
00:22:55,530 --> 00:23:01,250
situations where it's a self-correct, no, it's

675
00:23:01,250 --> 00:23:01,890
not correcting.

676
00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:05,010
It's like a, so if you have enough,

677
00:23:05,150 --> 00:23:06,330
let me just say, oh, here's a way

678
00:23:06,330 --> 00:23:06,710
to say it.

679
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:10,210
If you have enough money to do a

680
00:23:10,210 --> 00:23:15,830
video podcasting solution, then you, by definition, have

681
00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:17,550
the means to do it well.

682
00:23:18,910 --> 00:23:20,970
So like, if you think, I mean, the

683
00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:28,150
larger hosts, Blueberry, Buzzsprout, RSS, Transistor, you know,

684
00:23:28,250 --> 00:23:32,750
Captivate, these hosts that have solid infrastructure, Lipson,

685
00:23:33,490 --> 00:23:38,190
they're going to charge for the product, for

686
00:23:38,190 --> 00:23:40,630
the privilege, and they're going to build that

687
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:41,490
thing out correctly.

688
00:23:42,370 --> 00:23:45,250
And so, you know, this is not, nobody's

689
00:23:45,250 --> 00:23:47,690
going to be streaming HLS video from their

690
00:23:47,690 --> 00:23:50,110
PowerPress install on their WordPress site.

691
00:23:50,210 --> 00:23:50,690
Understood.

692
00:23:51,450 --> 00:23:54,770
You know, I mean, they technically could, but

693
00:23:54,770 --> 00:23:57,610
that's going to be such an outlier that

694
00:23:57,610 --> 00:24:02,630
I think that the hosting companies that are

695
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:05,750
going to make this thing happen, I believe

696
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:09,790
also lend it the credibility of a proven

697
00:24:09,790 --> 00:24:11,790
track record of content delivery.

698
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:12,530
True.

699
00:24:12,890 --> 00:24:16,090
However, let's look at transcripts as an example.

700
00:24:16,670 --> 00:24:18,430
So they may do an either or.

701
00:24:20,970 --> 00:24:26,050
They recognize the transcript namespace tag, but the

702
00:24:26,050 --> 00:24:27,930
first thing they did to make sure their

703
00:24:27,930 --> 00:24:31,890
customers had an outstanding transcript experience is they

704
00:24:31,890 --> 00:24:33,230
were doing the transcripts.

705
00:24:34,050 --> 00:24:34,990
This is what I mean.

706
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:37,270
They will always want to do it themselves

707
00:24:37,270 --> 00:24:39,710
to give their customers, you know, whenever something

708
00:24:39,710 --> 00:24:41,690
breaks on an app, it's always the app's

709
00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:41,930
fault.

710
00:24:42,410 --> 00:24:45,190
None of the Apple users think, oh, well,

711
00:24:45,250 --> 00:24:47,970
that's probably a problem with rss.com.

712
00:24:48,610 --> 00:24:51,370
Yeah, but there's a huge difference between a

713
00:24:51,370 --> 00:24:55,730
one kilobyte transcript and, you know, three gigs

714
00:24:55,730 --> 00:24:59,150
of video that Apple, in order to support

715
00:24:59,150 --> 00:25:00,950
something like this, would have to build out

716
00:25:00,950 --> 00:25:04,950
an enormous infrastructure to support all the video

717
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:06,210
that they're going to do.

718
00:25:06,570 --> 00:25:11,170
And Spotify was willing, what do you mean?

719
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:11,710
No, no.

720
00:25:12,930 --> 00:25:14,810
I don't think they need infrastructure, right?

721
00:25:14,970 --> 00:25:17,110
So to finish your thought, I didn't want

722
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:17,270
to.

723
00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:20,970
No, I mean, if they're going to say

724
00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:25,690
everybody uploads their video to Apple and then

725
00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:27,770
we will distribute it, they would have to

726
00:25:27,770 --> 00:25:30,890
build out a giant HLS infrastructure.

727
00:25:31,170 --> 00:25:32,490
No, that's why they're not going to do

728
00:25:32,490 --> 00:25:32,710
it.

729
00:25:33,070 --> 00:25:35,030
I mean, they don't, they're not server people

730
00:25:35,030 --> 00:25:35,670
over there, right?

731
00:25:35,710 --> 00:25:38,510
Like name one server product from Apple that's

732
00:25:38,510 --> 00:25:39,430
any good, right?

733
00:25:39,630 --> 00:25:40,550
Mac drive.

734
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:42,430
Mac drive, dot Mac.

735
00:25:43,290 --> 00:25:45,010
Yeah, exactly, iCloud, right?

736
00:25:45,290 --> 00:25:47,890
So they love podcasting, right?

737
00:25:47,890 --> 00:25:50,650
Because it's hosted by other people and they

738
00:25:50,650 --> 00:25:52,330
can just like make it look great in

739
00:25:52,330 --> 00:25:53,370
their player app.

740
00:25:53,450 --> 00:25:54,790
And that's what's great about apps, can kind

741
00:25:54,790 --> 00:25:55,870
of highlight stuff from others.

742
00:25:56,290 --> 00:25:57,570
And I think it'll be the same way

743
00:25:57,570 --> 00:25:57,990
with HLS.

744
00:25:58,130 --> 00:25:59,510
Now the problem is if they turned it

745
00:25:59,510 --> 00:26:02,770
on today, there would be what, like five

746
00:26:02,770 --> 00:26:04,450
videos a day that would show up?

747
00:26:04,530 --> 00:26:05,610
So I think that's part of it.

748
00:26:05,650 --> 00:26:07,590
I was curious about this myself.

749
00:26:07,750 --> 00:26:10,010
So I kind of just wanted to see

750
00:26:10,010 --> 00:26:11,310
like off the fire hose of what was

751
00:26:11,310 --> 00:26:14,070
coming in, like how many podcasts like use

752
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:17,530
this alternate enclosure, HLS thing today.

753
00:26:18,210 --> 00:26:20,750
And so it's really not that many, but

754
00:26:20,750 --> 00:26:22,230
it's cool to see like, you know, Fountain

755
00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:24,890
does some, actually Dystopia does some.

756
00:26:25,610 --> 00:26:25,710
Yeah.

757
00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:27,490
And I actually put together a site instead

758
00:26:27,490 --> 00:26:28,370
of just seeing it myself.

759
00:26:28,370 --> 00:26:30,430
I was like, hey, everyone might be kind

760
00:26:30,430 --> 00:26:31,350
of interested in this as well.

761
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:35,570
So if you go to HLS.livewire.io,

762
00:26:36,430 --> 00:26:38,550
you'll see just like a crappy site with

763
00:26:38,550 --> 00:26:41,230
all the videos that everyone's publishing out there

764
00:26:41,230 --> 00:26:42,010
today, right?

765
00:26:42,030 --> 00:26:43,570
So this is what Apple would see or

766
00:26:43,570 --> 00:26:44,730
any app would see today.

767
00:26:45,290 --> 00:26:46,850
John, did you vibe code this website?

768
00:26:47,220 --> 00:26:47,430
No.

769
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:50,410
I had some pretty good vibes as I

770
00:26:50,410 --> 00:26:50,890
was doing it.

771
00:26:51,090 --> 00:26:52,330
Yeah, mostly coffee vibes.

772
00:26:52,650 --> 00:26:54,230
By the way, the thing, here's the thing

773
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:56,370
that I learned at the PSP meeting.

774
00:26:56,770 --> 00:27:00,030
The actual cost of doing video is not

775
00:27:00,030 --> 00:27:00,590
the bandwidth.

776
00:27:02,530 --> 00:27:04,550
I knew that would make you quiet.

777
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:05,630
I don't agree.

778
00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:06,070
Crickets.

779
00:27:07,130 --> 00:27:08,170
What is it, the encoding?

780
00:27:08,450 --> 00:27:08,690
Yeah.

781
00:27:09,130 --> 00:27:09,430
Compute.

782
00:27:09,770 --> 00:27:12,310
That's, they all agreed on it.

783
00:27:12,450 --> 00:27:14,250
They all- No, see, I didn't.

784
00:27:14,430 --> 00:27:15,130
Well, hold on, hold on.

785
00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:18,470
Wait, listen, listen to what I'm saying.

786
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:20,690
Not the encoding into HLS.

787
00:27:21,230 --> 00:27:23,270
It's what people feed them.

788
00:27:24,130 --> 00:27:26,330
So people are going to give them everything

789
00:27:26,330 --> 00:27:32,650
from Windows video to MP4s, MV4, all these

790
00:27:32,650 --> 00:27:33,310
different things.

791
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:36,030
They have to then re-encode that to

792
00:27:36,030 --> 00:27:37,530
some kind of standard.

793
00:27:38,210 --> 00:27:39,550
I still disagree.

794
00:27:39,970 --> 00:27:42,250
I think they're thinking.

795
00:27:42,430 --> 00:27:43,970
Now, if they're thinking that they're going to

796
00:27:43,970 --> 00:27:48,370
have to have a fleet of transcoding compute

797
00:27:48,370 --> 00:27:52,810
instances, well, on a cloud host somewhere, well,

798
00:27:53,010 --> 00:27:56,310
yeah, sure, but you could run a few

799
00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:57,550
boxes in-house.

800
00:27:57,770 --> 00:27:59,090
I'm just reporting, Dave.

801
00:27:59,230 --> 00:28:00,590
Don't shoot the messenger.

802
00:28:00,930 --> 00:28:03,370
I'm just a roving reporter.

803
00:28:04,250 --> 00:28:06,990
You could do quote unquote on-prem and

804
00:28:06,990 --> 00:28:09,910
run a few boxes and do transcoding for

805
00:28:09,910 --> 00:28:10,690
nothing.

806
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:12,830
Is this going to be one of the

807
00:28:12,830 --> 00:28:14,430
sessions that's recorded, by the way?

808
00:28:14,490 --> 00:28:16,290
I love that they're releasing the recordings for

809
00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:16,630
everything.

810
00:28:16,850 --> 00:28:17,470
No, I don't.

811
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:17,930
At the conference.

812
00:28:18,050 --> 00:28:19,630
I don't think this was recorded.

813
00:28:19,770 --> 00:28:20,350
I don't think so.

814
00:28:20,550 --> 00:28:20,850
Ah, okay.

815
00:28:21,290 --> 00:28:22,290
Maybe it was.

816
00:28:23,850 --> 00:28:24,750
Take a step back, though.

817
00:28:25,130 --> 00:28:26,990
I've been thinking about the whole video, audio

818
00:28:26,990 --> 00:28:27,590
thing as well.

819
00:28:27,630 --> 00:28:28,430
I'm an audio person.

820
00:28:28,550 --> 00:28:29,910
I love listening to audio.

821
00:28:30,450 --> 00:28:32,230
Listened to transistor radio when I was a

822
00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:32,470
kid.

823
00:28:32,590 --> 00:28:34,270
Like, there's something special about audio.

824
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:39,030
And I think where I am now is

825
00:28:39,030 --> 00:28:40,610
that we just don't want to say that

826
00:28:40,610 --> 00:28:41,870
like, hey, if you want to do video,

827
00:28:41,930 --> 00:28:42,970
if you're good looking and you want to

828
00:28:42,970 --> 00:28:45,530
do video, we shouldn't have to say like,

829
00:28:45,810 --> 00:28:46,970
oh, sorry, can't do that.

830
00:28:47,050 --> 00:28:47,830
It's only audio, right?

831
00:28:47,910 --> 00:28:50,430
And we have all of the pieces, right?

832
00:28:50,430 --> 00:28:51,530
It's not like we have to do the

833
00:28:51,530 --> 00:28:52,950
work of how would we do this?

834
00:28:53,390 --> 00:28:54,510
It's like, you guys did a ton of

835
00:28:54,510 --> 00:28:56,190
work to say like, here's a great way

836
00:28:56,190 --> 00:28:57,830
to say an alternate enclosure so we're not

837
00:28:57,830 --> 00:29:00,070
breaking existing audio apps.

838
00:29:00,910 --> 00:29:02,190
And then we have these feeds.

839
00:29:02,350 --> 00:29:04,010
You know, Apple came up with HLS back

840
00:29:04,010 --> 00:29:06,670
in, remember when they hated Flash, right?

841
00:29:06,670 --> 00:29:07,750
They're like, we're not going to have Flash

842
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:08,390
on the iPhone.

843
00:29:09,650 --> 00:29:11,650
So Flash was used for two things.

844
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:13,270
It was used for video and it was

845
00:29:13,270 --> 00:29:15,290
used for interactive stuff.

846
00:29:15,870 --> 00:29:17,710
And the web is actually fairly good now

847
00:29:17,710 --> 00:29:19,810
at interactive stuff, but video was still something

848
00:29:19,810 --> 00:29:20,350
they had to do.

849
00:29:20,450 --> 00:29:22,850
So they came up with this HLS format

850
00:29:22,850 --> 00:29:24,470
and it was using the very, you know,

851
00:29:24,510 --> 00:29:26,630
high technology of Winamp playlists.

852
00:29:28,290 --> 00:29:30,910
It's just basically a text file with, you

853
00:29:30,910 --> 00:29:32,070
know, streams in there.

854
00:29:32,350 --> 00:29:34,090
Yeah, and if you remember the Winamp stuff,

855
00:29:34,130 --> 00:29:35,150
it's like, it's the same thing.

856
00:29:35,610 --> 00:29:37,010
So what's cool about it is it's like,

857
00:29:37,010 --> 00:29:38,270
we have the place to put it.

858
00:29:38,590 --> 00:29:40,610
There's all these transcoders now that do it.

859
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:43,870
And in particular, like it works on a

860
00:29:43,870 --> 00:29:45,490
wide variety of devices as well, right?

861
00:29:45,530 --> 00:29:47,470
So it works on a TV just as

862
00:29:47,470 --> 00:29:48,570
well as it works all the way down

863
00:29:48,570 --> 00:29:49,290
to the phone.

864
00:29:49,670 --> 00:29:52,170
And the client, it's like doing the work

865
00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:54,410
of saying like, oh, I see that you're

866
00:29:54,410 --> 00:29:57,870
kind of bandwidth constrained at this point, you

867
00:29:57,870 --> 00:29:59,390
know, let me pick a smaller bandwidth there.

868
00:29:59,550 --> 00:30:00,770
And the client is doing that.

869
00:30:01,270 --> 00:30:04,070
So crucially the server companies, podcast hosting companies

870
00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:05,670
are not doing, they don't have to stand

871
00:30:05,670 --> 00:30:08,830
up a live, you know, real 65 server

872
00:30:08,830 --> 00:30:09,890
or something on the backend.

873
00:30:10,010 --> 00:30:12,130
Like they can just do what they're already

874
00:30:12,130 --> 00:30:15,730
doing, which is do deals with CDNs and

875
00:30:15,730 --> 00:30:18,050
like post static files.

876
00:30:18,130 --> 00:30:19,230
And this is what they're doing already.

877
00:30:19,410 --> 00:30:20,850
And from the client point of view, it

878
00:30:20,850 --> 00:30:21,890
looks like magic, right?

879
00:30:21,910 --> 00:30:24,610
You can scan to wherever you want, you

880
00:30:24,610 --> 00:30:26,510
can go picture in picture, but it's all

881
00:30:26,510 --> 00:30:29,470
running off of just really boring HTTP sort

882
00:30:29,470 --> 00:30:30,070
of technology.

883
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:30,870
Hmm.

884
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:33,510
Yeah, I agree.

885
00:30:33,730 --> 00:30:37,150
This, I think this can be, I think

886
00:30:37,150 --> 00:30:39,750
this can be done for, I just think

887
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:42,910
they have to think outside the box a

888
00:30:42,910 --> 00:30:46,750
little bit and think about, okay, the answer

889
00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:50,390
to everything is not, let's add X more

890
00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:53,730
number of compute notes to our AWS account.

891
00:30:54,350 --> 00:30:56,970
You know, if you think outside that a

892
00:30:56,970 --> 00:30:58,450
little bit, I mean, now at the scale

893
00:30:58,450 --> 00:31:00,330
of YouTube, sure, you're going to have to

894
00:31:00,330 --> 00:31:02,810
like, I think it's going to be incredibly

895
00:31:02,810 --> 00:31:05,330
expensive, but for the limited amount, I mean,

896
00:31:05,390 --> 00:31:06,170
let's be honest.

897
00:31:06,590 --> 00:31:10,990
If you add a podcast option to your

898
00:31:10,990 --> 00:31:15,470
hosting company, you're not, how much percentage of

899
00:31:15,470 --> 00:31:17,370
your user base is actually going to use

900
00:31:17,370 --> 00:31:17,530
that?

901
00:31:17,570 --> 00:31:18,510
It's not going to be huge.

902
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:21,390
So you're already talking about a small.

903
00:31:21,850 --> 00:31:22,670
What's the point?

904
00:31:22,810 --> 00:31:24,310
If it's not going to be huge and

905
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:26,670
it doesn't compete with YouTube, what's the point?

906
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:29,930
Well, I think, no, I mean, now competing

907
00:31:29,930 --> 00:31:33,270
with YouTube is a, that's a question.

908
00:31:33,650 --> 00:31:35,090
That's what everyone's talking about.

909
00:31:35,190 --> 00:31:37,530
Everyone, that's what everyone, oh, YouTube, YouTube, YouTube,

910
00:31:37,650 --> 00:31:38,550
we got to do video.

911
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:43,270
Well, but yeah, but see, compete, quote, competing

912
00:31:43,270 --> 00:31:47,490
with YouTube is, that has to be defined

913
00:31:47,490 --> 00:31:49,690
because you can compete with somebody in multiple

914
00:31:49,690 --> 00:31:50,230
ways.

915
00:31:50,590 --> 00:31:53,110
If you mean competing with, or if they

916
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:58,190
mean competing with YouTube by being YouTube, by

917
00:31:58,190 --> 00:32:00,070
doing the exact same things that they do

918
00:32:00,070 --> 00:32:04,070
at that scale, that's, that's delusional, but I

919
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:05,890
don't, I hope that's not what they mean.

920
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:08,370
I think, you know, the way I would

921
00:32:08,370 --> 00:32:10,390
define, I would say they can compete with

922
00:32:10,390 --> 00:32:13,210
YouTube though, if you define it correctly.

923
00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:19,210
And the competition is, have a legitimate place

924
00:32:19,210 --> 00:32:25,230
to serve video to the mass consumer and

925
00:32:25,230 --> 00:32:29,750
have it available on demand whenever it's needed.

926
00:32:29,890 --> 00:32:33,630
I think that they can absolutely do that.

927
00:32:33,710 --> 00:32:36,050
It just will not be at YouTube scale

928
00:32:36,050 --> 00:32:39,270
in a, and I don't think they want

929
00:32:39,270 --> 00:32:39,830
that though.

930
00:32:40,510 --> 00:32:43,250
Okay, here's the problem I have.

931
00:32:43,530 --> 00:32:45,350
And I like that we disagree because we

932
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:46,270
rarely disagree.

933
00:32:46,810 --> 00:32:47,370
True.

934
00:32:47,770 --> 00:32:48,750
So this is much better.

935
00:32:49,550 --> 00:32:52,790
What I'm looking at here, the HLS podcast

936
00:32:52,790 --> 00:32:58,170
radar at hls.livewire.io is actually very

937
00:32:58,170 --> 00:32:58,650
interesting.

938
00:32:59,770 --> 00:33:02,650
It's an interface that is interesting for video.

939
00:33:03,050 --> 00:33:05,870
Your typical podcast app is not going to

940
00:33:05,870 --> 00:33:07,370
be interesting for video.

941
00:33:08,030 --> 00:33:10,450
So if we really want to compete on

942
00:33:10,450 --> 00:33:15,010
a different level, we need different apps that

943
00:33:15,010 --> 00:33:18,410
when video comes through or when video is

944
00:33:18,410 --> 00:33:21,070
available, function in a different way.

945
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:24,530
I just don't think that, I mean, it's

946
00:33:24,530 --> 00:33:26,050
two pieces or three pieces.

947
00:33:26,190 --> 00:33:27,450
One, YouTube is free.

948
00:33:27,870 --> 00:33:29,550
So you're going to be paying for something

949
00:33:29,550 --> 00:33:30,110
to do this.

950
00:33:30,150 --> 00:33:32,110
So that's already a large barrier.

951
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:35,850
Once you get over that hurdle, what is

952
00:33:35,850 --> 00:33:37,310
the experience for the user?

953
00:33:38,130 --> 00:33:40,410
YouTube has a lot going on in their

954
00:33:40,410 --> 00:33:41,170
interface.

955
00:33:42,130 --> 00:33:44,010
That's part of the appeal of YouTube.

956
00:33:44,010 --> 00:33:46,190
In fact, the only appeal of YouTube, in

957
00:33:46,190 --> 00:33:49,190
my opinion, is the discovery aspect.

958
00:33:49,490 --> 00:33:51,750
That's why people want to be on YouTube

959
00:33:51,750 --> 00:33:53,050
because they're getting recommended.

960
00:33:53,510 --> 00:33:56,070
You trick the algos, you get popped up

961
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:56,630
to the top.

962
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:58,090
There's all kinds of stuff that happens.

963
00:33:58,190 --> 00:33:59,750
It's not just about video.

964
00:33:59,890 --> 00:34:02,430
By the way, if video truly had killed

965
00:34:02,430 --> 00:34:05,510
audio, MTV would still be playing music videos

966
00:34:05,510 --> 00:34:06,350
on the air today.

967
00:34:07,989 --> 00:34:13,830
See, if we can already do all that

968
00:34:13,830 --> 00:34:18,170
stuff that YouTube does, the problem is that

969
00:34:18,170 --> 00:34:20,409
people don't look at their podcast app.

970
00:34:20,989 --> 00:34:24,130
So if there's a reason for them to

971
00:34:24,130 --> 00:34:27,030
look at their podcast app, all those things

972
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:30,590
that people have been dinging podcasting 2.0

973
00:34:30,590 --> 00:34:33,010
features for, like, eh, nobody's going to use

974
00:34:33,010 --> 00:34:34,870
this because nobody looks at their podcast app.

975
00:34:35,449 --> 00:34:36,330
All of a sudden, those people are going

976
00:34:36,330 --> 00:34:37,790
to be like, it's become viable features because

977
00:34:37,790 --> 00:34:42,550
now customers or listeners will look at their

978
00:34:42,550 --> 00:34:45,650
podcast app a little bit more like they

979
00:34:45,650 --> 00:34:49,630
do their YouTube app, where they're now expecting

980
00:34:49,630 --> 00:34:51,550
to sometimes be able to see things and

981
00:34:51,550 --> 00:34:52,510
interact with them.

982
00:34:55,429 --> 00:34:57,770
PeerTube is a perfect example of this.

983
00:34:58,310 --> 00:35:01,590
PeerTube is probably serving, you can correct me

984
00:35:01,590 --> 00:35:03,250
on this, John, but I bet PeerTube is

985
00:35:03,250 --> 00:35:05,530
probably serving most of the HLS content through

986
00:35:05,530 --> 00:35:06,390
podcasts right now.

987
00:35:06,570 --> 00:35:06,810
That's right.

988
00:35:06,870 --> 00:35:08,410
Most of those say PeerTube, for sure.

989
00:35:08,510 --> 00:35:10,590
And they were very early, thanks to Alex's

990
00:35:10,590 --> 00:35:11,150
plugin.

991
00:35:11,970 --> 00:35:12,370
Alex, right.

992
00:35:12,490 --> 00:35:18,190
Yeah, Alex did miracle work in creating the

993
00:35:18,190 --> 00:35:21,150
alternate enclosure tag and then doing all of

994
00:35:21,150 --> 00:35:26,670
the legwork to do pull requests up to

995
00:35:26,670 --> 00:35:30,790
the PeerTube guys to get HLS video in

996
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:34,010
the alternate enclosure tag into RSS feeds.

997
00:35:34,370 --> 00:35:36,490
If anybody wants to see exactly how to

998
00:35:36,490 --> 00:35:39,110
do this the correct way, go find a

999
00:35:39,110 --> 00:35:41,690
PeerTube instance, look at the way that they're

1000
00:35:41,690 --> 00:35:43,550
doing it with the alternate enclosure HLS.

1001
00:35:43,810 --> 00:35:46,010
That is the correct way to do this

1002
00:35:46,010 --> 00:35:46,430
spec.

1003
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:48,010
This would be my recommendation.

1004
00:35:48,430 --> 00:35:52,330
To make this work really well, the first

1005
00:35:52,330 --> 00:35:55,270
person who comes out with a Roku app

1006
00:35:55,940 --> 00:36:01,150
or a smart TV app that understands video

1007
00:36:01,150 --> 00:36:04,350
enclosures will make an incredible impact.

1008
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:07,630
That's a great point.

1009
00:36:08,170 --> 00:36:09,210
Yeah, that's a great point.

1010
00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:12,510
I just, I think this can be done

1011
00:36:12,830 --> 00:36:15,950
because the problem, see, the other problem with

1012
00:36:15,950 --> 00:36:22,930
YouTube is that YouTube, because of what it

1013
00:36:22,930 --> 00:36:26,510
is and the way that it works, has

1014
00:36:26,510 --> 00:36:30,610
tons of content that just would never make

1015
00:36:30,610 --> 00:36:32,230
any sense in a podcast app.

1016
00:36:32,530 --> 00:36:32,830
That's right.

1017
00:36:33,070 --> 00:36:34,930
It just wouldn't.

1018
00:36:35,130 --> 00:36:36,610
Which is good, because there's a signal to

1019
00:36:36,610 --> 00:36:39,150
noise ratio that is compelling.

1020
00:36:39,410 --> 00:36:40,810
I'm totally on board with that.

1021
00:36:41,630 --> 00:36:44,890
Yeah, like these PeerTube videos, these are perfect,

1022
00:36:45,090 --> 00:36:47,090
the ones I'm just scrolling through here on

1023
00:36:47,090 --> 00:36:48,130
HLS podcast radar.

1024
00:36:49,290 --> 00:36:52,570
These things, these videos are perfect for a

1025
00:36:52,570 --> 00:36:53,250
podcast app.

1026
00:36:53,850 --> 00:36:55,830
These make a lot of sense in a

1027
00:36:55,830 --> 00:36:56,590
podcast app.

1028
00:36:58,270 --> 00:37:05,930
And I see no reason why Apple wouldn't

1029
00:37:05,930 --> 00:37:08,390
just play these.

1030
00:37:09,550 --> 00:37:12,490
I don't think they would force everybody to

1031
00:37:12,490 --> 00:37:13,150
re-upload it.

1032
00:37:13,350 --> 00:37:16,430
And I think that it makes sense and

1033
00:37:16,430 --> 00:37:17,390
I think it can work.

1034
00:37:17,930 --> 00:37:19,290
I mean, all you need is a little

1035
00:37:19,290 --> 00:37:19,510
bit.

1036
00:37:20,050 --> 00:37:21,470
It would be more compelling if there was

1037
00:37:21,470 --> 00:37:23,790
more like general content, right?

1038
00:37:24,190 --> 00:37:24,970
Obviously, right?

1039
00:37:24,970 --> 00:37:27,270
So it's like, there's somewhat still the chicken

1040
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:27,750
and egg.

1041
00:37:28,070 --> 00:37:30,050
We'll see how many people really want to

1042
00:37:30,050 --> 00:37:30,910
publish this stuff.

1043
00:37:31,710 --> 00:37:33,810
Hosts like Transistor, I think, will ease that

1044
00:37:33,810 --> 00:37:34,530
tremendously.

1045
00:37:34,830 --> 00:37:36,310
Those, and Fountain that does this.

1046
00:37:36,410 --> 00:37:37,810
I think making it as easy as possible

1047
00:37:37,810 --> 00:37:40,390
for people to just hit a button and

1048
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:41,570
it goes everywhere, basically.

1049
00:37:41,790 --> 00:37:45,110
Including this, I think that'll, you remember back

1050
00:37:45,110 --> 00:37:47,030
in the early days of the iPod, right?

1051
00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:50,150
They were really touting, some of those shows

1052
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:51,430
were really high production, right?

1053
00:37:51,430 --> 00:37:52,770
Some of those early video podcasts.

1054
00:37:52,770 --> 00:37:54,570
I was really surprised by that.

1055
00:37:54,990 --> 00:37:56,690
It's just a matter of like, hey, where

1056
00:37:56,690 --> 00:37:58,330
are people expecting to see this stuff?

1057
00:37:58,810 --> 00:38:01,150
And I listened to this really interesting podcast

1058
00:38:01,150 --> 00:38:02,910
recently from the head of ESPN.

1059
00:38:03,330 --> 00:38:06,350
And they're creating their own streaming service finally.

1060
00:38:06,670 --> 00:38:07,850
And they have an app.

1061
00:38:08,230 --> 00:38:10,330
And he was saying that like the people

1062
00:38:10,330 --> 00:38:13,150
younger than him basically, they don't really have

1063
00:38:13,150 --> 00:38:16,230
a problem like using an app, like going

1064
00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:17,950
to a particular app to watch a particular

1065
00:38:17,950 --> 00:38:18,430
thing.

1066
00:38:18,570 --> 00:38:19,950
You know, I kind of hate that, right?

1067
00:38:20,010 --> 00:38:22,030
But like, this is sort of a bridge

1068
00:38:22,030 --> 00:38:24,430
it's already been crossed because of exclusive deals

1069
00:38:24,430 --> 00:38:25,330
and stuff like that.

1070
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:27,530
So if it's something that doesn't exist at

1071
00:38:27,530 --> 00:38:29,090
YouTube at all, that even wouldn't be a

1072
00:38:29,090 --> 00:38:29,490
problem.

1073
00:38:30,110 --> 00:38:32,570
Now I imagine like, you know, some content

1074
00:38:32,570 --> 00:38:34,330
is gonna, probably all content is gonna be

1075
00:38:34,330 --> 00:38:35,910
there and then some will be here as

1076
00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:36,050
well.

1077
00:38:36,090 --> 00:38:38,110
But it's just a matter of like the

1078
00:38:38,110 --> 00:38:38,710
option, right?

1079
00:38:38,730 --> 00:38:40,290
Just taking a step back, just saying like,

1080
00:38:40,830 --> 00:38:42,090
hey, we can't do this, right?

1081
00:38:42,090 --> 00:38:44,770
As a media hosting company, sorry, video is

1082
00:38:44,770 --> 00:38:46,430
something we don't do, have to go to

1083
00:38:46,430 --> 00:38:46,970
YouTube for that.

1084
00:38:47,050 --> 00:38:48,730
That's, I don't know, that's problematic.

1085
00:38:48,970 --> 00:38:50,210
I don't think it takes away from audio

1086
00:38:50,210 --> 00:38:51,410
in the slightest.

1087
00:38:51,410 --> 00:38:53,790
And I think people, just like they shouldn't

1088
00:38:53,790 --> 00:38:55,730
create bad audio, it's like, no one should

1089
00:38:55,730 --> 00:38:57,870
be forced to create bad video, right?

1090
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:59,870
Like, that's not the idea here.

1091
00:38:59,910 --> 00:39:01,490
It's just an optionality sort of thing.

1092
00:39:01,510 --> 00:39:03,050
It's like, you have the option of also

1093
00:39:03,050 --> 00:39:03,630
doing this.

1094
00:39:05,310 --> 00:39:05,470
Yeah.

1095
00:39:06,030 --> 00:39:09,150
Yeah, no, this can work.

1096
00:39:09,330 --> 00:39:10,310
I like bad audio.

1097
00:39:10,730 --> 00:39:12,170
I like bad audio.

1098
00:39:12,690 --> 00:39:13,110
I do.

1099
00:39:13,350 --> 00:39:14,190
I'm serious.

1100
00:39:14,510 --> 00:39:16,130
I like- Well, I mean that in

1101
00:39:16,130 --> 00:39:17,190
a Jim Rome sense.

1102
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:19,090
Or like, remember Jim Rome always had his

1103
00:39:19,090 --> 00:39:20,750
rules for callers was like, have a take

1104
00:39:20,750 --> 00:39:21,510
and don't suck.

1105
00:39:22,030 --> 00:39:23,830
So bad quality is fine, but it's like

1106
00:39:23,830 --> 00:39:26,510
bad, like uninteresting content is like bad audio.

1107
00:39:26,690 --> 00:39:27,730
Of course, yeah, all right.

1108
00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:28,550
And there's a lot of that.

1109
00:39:30,610 --> 00:39:32,070
Oh, there's a lot of that on YouTube

1110
00:39:32,070 --> 00:39:32,770
as well.

1111
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:36,410
Yeah, that's, I mean, the percentage of like

1112
00:39:36,410 --> 00:39:40,410
quality, actual quality content on YouTube, and I

1113
00:39:40,410 --> 00:39:45,270
always define quality content as somebody somewhere actually

1114
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:46,230
wants to watch it.

1115
00:39:47,230 --> 00:39:51,630
If that number is zero, then that's not

1116
00:39:51,630 --> 00:39:55,250
quality content or watch or listen.

1117
00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:56,230
And so that- Yeah, I mean, you

1118
00:39:56,230 --> 00:39:58,030
can make a personal judgment about the New

1119
00:39:58,030 --> 00:40:01,670
Heights interview with Taylor Swift, but a lot

1120
00:40:01,670 --> 00:40:03,430
of people wanted to watch that and watch

1121
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:03,870
it live.

1122
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:05,790
It actually almost took down YouTube for live

1123
00:40:05,790 --> 00:40:06,030
viewing.

1124
00:40:06,190 --> 00:40:07,810
So it's like, it may not be quote

1125
00:40:07,810 --> 00:40:10,690
unquote, maybe some people wouldn't consider it good

1126
00:40:10,690 --> 00:40:12,230
content, but it is, like you said, compelling

1127
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:13,270
to someone to watch, right?

1128
00:40:13,290 --> 00:40:14,330
Someone wants to watch that.

1129
00:40:15,410 --> 00:40:17,130
Somebody somewhere, yeah.

1130
00:40:17,290 --> 00:40:18,490
Not me, but someone wants to watch.

1131
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:18,650
No.

1132
00:40:20,490 --> 00:40:23,710
All right, let's talk about something else because

1133
00:40:23,710 --> 00:40:25,010
everyone talks about this.

1134
00:40:26,070 --> 00:40:28,590
Well, I think, well, I mean, everybody talks,

1135
00:40:28,670 --> 00:40:30,270
yeah, you're right, everybody talks about it, but

1136
00:40:30,270 --> 00:40:34,130
I mean, I think, I mean, this group

1137
00:40:34,130 --> 00:40:35,790
defined the specs that are going to be

1138
00:40:35,790 --> 00:40:36,250
used.

1139
00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:39,550
And I think we can, I think we

1140
00:40:39,550 --> 00:40:43,850
also have valuable, but I don't mind saying

1141
00:40:43,850 --> 00:40:44,110
that.

1142
00:40:44,110 --> 00:40:46,890
A lot of podcast hosting companies don't even

1143
00:40:46,890 --> 00:40:48,250
know what PeerTube is.

1144
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:52,210
I mean, because this has always been the

1145
00:40:52,210 --> 00:40:56,490
struggle with Podcasting 2.0. Most of the

1146
00:40:56,490 --> 00:40:59,370
people in Podcasting 2.0 that are actually

1147
00:40:59,370 --> 00:41:01,570
writing specs and writing tags and that kind

1148
00:41:01,570 --> 00:41:04,470
of thing are fairly steeped in open source

1149
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:05,170
technology.

1150
00:41:05,810 --> 00:41:07,850
That's where most of us came from.

1151
00:41:07,870 --> 00:41:09,850
We came from other open source projects.

1152
00:41:10,490 --> 00:41:12,930
Even James, you know, he was deeply involved

1153
00:41:12,930 --> 00:41:16,510
in open source projects, with things like OpenStreetMaps

1154
00:41:16,510 --> 00:41:17,230
and that kind of thing.

1155
00:41:17,890 --> 00:41:20,590
So a lot of us are just used

1156
00:41:20,590 --> 00:41:23,890
to, we're used to living in an open

1157
00:41:23,890 --> 00:41:31,290
source milieu, but the podcast hosting companies didn't

1158
00:41:31,290 --> 00:41:32,770
really have a lot of that.

1159
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:36,850
You know, they were not familiar with a

1160
00:41:36,850 --> 00:41:37,890
lot of these things.

1161
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:40,270
So I'm sure that there's some podcast hosting

1162
00:41:40,270 --> 00:41:41,930
companies out there that don't even know about

1163
00:41:41,930 --> 00:41:44,890
PeerTube and they don't even know that the

1164
00:41:44,890 --> 00:41:48,070
HLS aspect of PeerTube is fully functional today.

1165
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:50,210
It's basically a roadmap for what they need

1166
00:41:50,210 --> 00:41:50,630
to do.

1167
00:41:51,310 --> 00:41:52,730
So I think we have a different perspective,

1168
00:41:52,910 --> 00:41:53,170
you know.

1169
00:41:53,690 --> 00:41:56,790
Conversely, most people in the Podcasting 2.0

1170
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:59,610
group have no idea what it takes to

1171
00:41:59,610 --> 00:42:02,270
run a hosting company with customer service, people

1172
00:42:02,270 --> 00:42:05,690
who can barely hold a mouse, who want

1173
00:42:05,690 --> 00:42:08,770
help understanding, you know, it's a lot more

1174
00:42:08,770 --> 00:42:10,470
than just the technical side of it.

1175
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:12,590
That's true, that's for sure.

1176
00:42:12,890 --> 00:42:13,630
Yeah, yep.

1177
00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:16,330
So, you know, and that's, you know, I

1178
00:42:16,330 --> 00:42:18,810
know that a lot of these companies have

1179
00:42:18,810 --> 00:42:21,570
20 people, not all full-time, but they

1180
00:42:21,570 --> 00:42:26,150
have 20 people, 24-7 on the help

1181
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:26,590
desk.

1182
00:42:27,610 --> 00:42:28,870
And I used to work for Google and

1183
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:30,790
like they do all these tech talks internally

1184
00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:31,970
and I would just go to all of

1185
00:42:31,970 --> 00:42:32,630
them because I'm curious.

1186
00:42:32,850 --> 00:42:34,070
And like one of them was about, and

1187
00:42:34,070 --> 00:42:37,690
this is very early on, about content detection,

1188
00:42:37,810 --> 00:42:37,950
right?

1189
00:42:37,950 --> 00:42:40,270
So like, and sort of like detecting horrible

1190
00:42:40,270 --> 00:42:42,390
stuff, like you kind of go a different

1191
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:44,690
level when you do video, when you start

1192
00:42:44,690 --> 00:42:47,390
hosting video as a provider, then you do

1193
00:42:47,390 --> 00:42:47,990
an audio, right?

1194
00:42:48,030 --> 00:42:49,290
I mean, what's the worst that someone can

1195
00:42:49,290 --> 00:42:49,870
do in audio?

1196
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:51,890
I mean, they could- Blaspheme?

1197
00:42:52,830 --> 00:42:53,190
Blaspheme?

1198
00:42:53,490 --> 00:42:55,170
Yeah, the- Satan.

1199
00:42:57,310 --> 00:42:59,010
But, you know, obviously it takes a lot

1200
00:42:59,010 --> 00:42:59,250
of people.

1201
00:42:59,290 --> 00:43:01,190
I mean, it literally takes people just like

1202
00:43:01,190 --> 00:43:02,650
sitting there and we're looking at the worst

1203
00:43:02,650 --> 00:43:03,430
kind of stuff.

1204
00:43:04,090 --> 00:43:05,910
And that is something that you would have

1205
00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:08,670
to think about as a video hoster.

1206
00:43:08,930 --> 00:43:10,590
So it's not, it's not, and it's an

1207
00:43:10,590 --> 00:43:12,310
order of magnitude more data, but it's also

1208
00:43:12,310 --> 00:43:14,490
an order of magnitude more of that kind

1209
00:43:14,490 --> 00:43:14,730
of stuff.

1210
00:43:14,770 --> 00:43:17,370
And takedown requests and legal issues across the

1211
00:43:17,370 --> 00:43:17,670
world.

1212
00:43:17,950 --> 00:43:18,910
It's just different.

1213
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:21,610
That's, yes, good point.

1214
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:25,750
Yeah, and you know, now you're talking about

1215
00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:28,110
having to run through CSAM filters and all

1216
00:43:28,110 --> 00:43:28,290
this.

1217
00:43:28,650 --> 00:43:29,550
It's a big deal.

1218
00:43:29,890 --> 00:43:31,590
And it's a lot easier now than it

1219
00:43:31,590 --> 00:43:31,950
used to be.

1220
00:43:32,030 --> 00:43:33,610
There's actually some, I've been looking into some

1221
00:43:33,610 --> 00:43:35,290
of the stuff and you can get some

1222
00:43:35,290 --> 00:43:36,730
off the shelf stuff to do it.

1223
00:43:36,730 --> 00:43:38,590
And there's some services that are fairly okay

1224
00:43:38,590 --> 00:43:38,990
to do it.

1225
00:43:39,490 --> 00:43:40,630
And remember, there's not a lot of the

1226
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:41,450
stuff that would be published.

1227
00:43:41,570 --> 00:43:43,130
So I still think it's sort of at

1228
00:43:43,130 --> 00:43:43,990
a manageable level.

1229
00:43:44,090 --> 00:43:46,250
No one is saying like, Transistor is going

1230
00:43:46,250 --> 00:43:47,410
to be the next YouTube, right?

1231
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:48,790
I don't think anyone's saying that.

1232
00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:52,290
It's just like, can we start publishing video

1233
00:43:52,670 --> 00:43:54,370
if the publishers want to do it?

1234
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:56,250
And a lot of publishers want to kind

1235
00:43:56,250 --> 00:43:57,450
of own their own stack these days.

1236
00:43:57,490 --> 00:43:58,670
They want to be their own media company.

1237
00:43:59,170 --> 00:44:00,490
I think part of that is saying like,

1238
00:44:00,550 --> 00:44:02,530
if all else fails, if YouTube takes us

1239
00:44:02,530 --> 00:44:05,190
down, you know, like you can go to,

1240
00:44:05,210 --> 00:44:07,170
you know, myname.com and I have my

1241
00:44:07,170 --> 00:44:10,670
own little publishing world that includes newsletters, podcasts,

1242
00:44:11,090 --> 00:44:11,810
video, whatever.

1243
00:44:14,230 --> 00:44:14,350
Yeah.

1244
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:15,070
Yeah.

1245
00:44:15,210 --> 00:44:18,330
I mean, if all it would take would

1246
00:44:18,330 --> 00:44:20,790
be a few big shows, you know, to

1247
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:22,530
start publishing over it.

1248
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:25,690
I mean, if Rogan started cross-publishing HLS

1249
00:44:25,690 --> 00:44:29,050
video through the podcast feed, that would, that'd

1250
00:44:29,050 --> 00:44:29,450
be huge.

1251
00:44:29,530 --> 00:44:30,850
What do you think that would cost?

1252
00:44:32,890 --> 00:44:34,910
You know, I don't, I don't know.

1253
00:44:35,390 --> 00:44:36,070
That's a good question.

1254
00:44:36,580 --> 00:44:39,490
Well, I know the terabyte costs are around

1255
00:44:39,490 --> 00:44:39,930
$20.

1256
00:44:41,710 --> 00:44:42,150
Mm-hmm.

1257
00:44:42,170 --> 00:44:42,450
Okay.

1258
00:44:42,930 --> 00:44:44,070
You know, yeah.

1259
00:44:44,070 --> 00:44:48,330
You start pushing content, it gets pricey without,

1260
00:44:48,330 --> 00:44:50,710
you know, edge servers.

1261
00:44:51,650 --> 00:44:56,370
Because yeah, personally, I'm much more interested in

1262
00:44:56,370 --> 00:44:57,870
what will the small person do.

1263
00:44:58,090 --> 00:45:00,390
But you know, what, you know, I'm just

1264
00:45:00,390 --> 00:45:03,870
less interested in a big, big show coming.

1265
00:45:04,410 --> 00:45:04,950
Mm-hmm.

1266
00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:06,650
That's kind of always the default.

1267
00:45:06,810 --> 00:45:09,270
Well, if a really big show, if a

1268
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:11,630
really big show starts using value for value,

1269
00:45:11,770 --> 00:45:12,510
it'll be there.

1270
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:13,750
Nah, that's not how it works.

1271
00:45:14,190 --> 00:45:15,510
This has never worked that way.

1272
00:45:15,750 --> 00:45:18,490
It's a very, podcasting is always just a

1273
00:45:18,490 --> 00:45:23,930
very slow, slow growing, slow burn, five, 10%,

1274
00:45:23,930 --> 00:45:26,630
sometimes 10% a year, just inches up,

1275
00:45:26,730 --> 00:45:27,810
inches up, inches up.

1276
00:45:27,870 --> 00:45:29,830
It's never been a, oh, all of a

1277
00:45:29,830 --> 00:45:30,110
sudden.

1278
00:45:31,370 --> 00:45:31,490
Yeah.

1279
00:45:32,010 --> 00:45:33,590
Yeah, I'm excited about it because it unlocks

1280
00:45:33,590 --> 00:45:33,950
content.

1281
00:45:33,950 --> 00:45:36,070
It's things that you would have never found

1282
00:45:36,070 --> 00:45:36,730
otherwise, right?

1283
00:45:36,750 --> 00:45:38,070
That's what I love about podcasts, right?

1284
00:45:38,070 --> 00:45:40,290
You kind of see, especially if you get

1285
00:45:40,290 --> 00:45:42,150
an app that's like showing you random stuff,

1286
00:45:42,170 --> 00:45:43,410
it's amazing what's out there.

1287
00:45:43,550 --> 00:45:44,790
A lot of the apps are actually not

1288
00:45:44,790 --> 00:45:46,250
that great at doing that.

1289
00:45:46,310 --> 00:45:48,770
They're like, subscribe to this NPR show, right?

1290
00:45:48,830 --> 00:45:51,070
But there's actually, if you just do a

1291
00:45:51,070 --> 00:45:54,110
random search, just like what's being published, you'll

1292
00:45:54,110 --> 00:45:55,410
find some really interesting stuff.

1293
00:45:55,510 --> 00:45:56,770
So I think apps could do a much

1294
00:45:56,770 --> 00:46:00,310
better job at, you know, the serendipity aspect

1295
00:46:00,310 --> 00:46:02,550
of like showing the kind of long tail

1296
00:46:02,550 --> 00:46:04,010
of stuff that is out there that will

1297
00:46:04,010 --> 00:46:06,650
be interesting to different people, right?

1298
00:46:08,010 --> 00:46:10,330
And let me clarify, when I say, because

1299
00:46:10,330 --> 00:46:11,790
I made a statement that the hosting companies

1300
00:46:11,790 --> 00:46:15,450
weren't like aware of a lot of open

1301
00:46:15,450 --> 00:46:15,890
source stuff.

1302
00:46:15,970 --> 00:46:17,250
What I mean, like a lot of them,

1303
00:46:19,110 --> 00:46:21,690
a lot of them are from their, they

1304
00:46:21,690 --> 00:46:23,330
use open source stuff.

1305
00:46:23,490 --> 00:46:25,350
That's not, that's not what I'm saying.

1306
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:27,010
Like they use like Ruby on Rails is

1307
00:46:27,010 --> 00:46:29,950
really popular and with a lot of podcast

1308
00:46:29,950 --> 00:46:32,850
hosting, I think they, but using those things

1309
00:46:32,850 --> 00:46:35,150
and being involved in a specific project is

1310
00:46:35,150 --> 00:46:37,910
not the same as sort of like being

1311
00:46:37,910 --> 00:46:40,370
a FOSS person.

1312
00:46:41,490 --> 00:46:44,590
You know, like those people are all in

1313
00:46:44,590 --> 00:46:50,450
on all the, you know, ActivityPub, PeerTube, OwnCloud.

1314
00:46:50,610 --> 00:46:52,070
I mean, you have people who are just

1315
00:46:52,070 --> 00:46:54,590
sort of like all in on the open

1316
00:46:54,590 --> 00:46:56,850
source lifestyle.

1317
00:46:57,530 --> 00:47:01,490
And when you're in that world, you sort

1318
00:47:01,490 --> 00:47:05,250
of, you know, you see things in a,

1319
00:47:05,410 --> 00:47:07,250
you see a lot of things that are

1320
00:47:07,250 --> 00:47:08,230
otherwise hidden.

1321
00:47:08,610 --> 00:47:09,830
A lot of people just don't know about

1322
00:47:09,830 --> 00:47:10,550
some of those things.

1323
00:47:10,670 --> 00:47:11,830
So that's kind of what I meant.

1324
00:47:12,590 --> 00:47:14,370
So Nathan G, and I put it in

1325
00:47:14,370 --> 00:47:16,810
the show notes, just published or just gave

1326
00:47:16,810 --> 00:47:18,870
us a link, HLS costs.

1327
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:24,230
And it's very eyeopening, what it costs.

1328
00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:27,890
I'm seeing here at bit rate, this may

1329
00:47:27,890 --> 00:47:28,950
be audio, I guess.

1330
00:47:29,210 --> 00:47:32,450
Bit rate, 96 kilobit per second, duration, 30

1331
00:47:32,450 --> 00:47:34,710
minutes, file size, 21 megabytes.

1332
00:47:36,750 --> 00:47:38,770
Does he have number of requests here?

1333
00:47:39,610 --> 00:47:40,590
Yeah, I've seen that spreadsheet.

1334
00:47:40,810 --> 00:47:42,790
It really, yeah, it's, there's a lot of

1335
00:47:42,790 --> 00:47:44,630
factors in it, right, like how many things

1336
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:47,410
you're streaming and each bit is very, and

1337
00:47:47,410 --> 00:47:48,590
like you said, it's sort of an order

1338
00:47:48,590 --> 00:47:49,450
of magnitude less.

1339
00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:51,730
So I would really love to see kind

1340
00:47:51,730 --> 00:47:54,330
of some folks publish shows and then actually

1341
00:47:54,330 --> 00:47:55,910
get some real world numbers on these things,

1342
00:47:55,950 --> 00:47:58,510
because this is, honestly, this is what the

1343
00:47:58,510 --> 00:48:00,050
podcast hosts do, right?

1344
00:48:00,090 --> 00:48:02,590
This is their kind of value add in

1345
00:48:02,590 --> 00:48:03,410
the competitive market.

1346
00:48:03,490 --> 00:48:05,190
It's like, what kind of deals can we

1347
00:48:05,190 --> 00:48:06,790
strike with their various providers?

1348
00:48:06,970 --> 00:48:08,710
And how can we do some cool stuff

1349
00:48:08,710 --> 00:48:10,610
with FFA MPEG under the hood to make

1350
00:48:10,610 --> 00:48:13,250
it, because you can spend as much as

1351
00:48:13,250 --> 00:48:13,650
you want.

1352
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:15,450
I mean, there's services that will basically do

1353
00:48:15,450 --> 00:48:17,390
the whole thing at this point and stream,

1354
00:48:17,490 --> 00:48:19,110
but you're paying per minute and it's kind

1355
00:48:19,110 --> 00:48:21,270
of expensive, but that might be okay if

1356
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:23,350
all you're doing is doing a company's press

1357
00:48:23,350 --> 00:48:24,590
release or something like that.

1358
00:48:24,890 --> 00:48:26,690
But then if you're a podcast hosting company,

1359
00:48:26,750 --> 00:48:28,110
your bread and butter is like, how can

1360
00:48:28,110 --> 00:48:29,690
we do this in a clever way?

1361
00:48:29,830 --> 00:48:31,590
And not to give any secrets, but there

1362
00:48:31,590 --> 00:48:32,830
are ways to do this, right?

1363
00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:34,270
There are definitely ways to do this with

1364
00:48:34,270 --> 00:48:36,130
the pieces that are out there now.

1365
00:48:36,130 --> 00:48:37,530
I'm sorry, why won't you give away any

1366
00:48:37,530 --> 00:48:37,850
secrets?

1367
00:48:38,030 --> 00:48:38,910
This is the boardroom.

1368
00:48:39,050 --> 00:48:39,870
What's wrong with you?

1369
00:48:39,970 --> 00:48:41,170
Who are you working for?

1370
00:48:41,290 --> 00:48:42,150
Give us the secrets.

1371
00:48:42,850 --> 00:48:43,790
Working for myself.

1372
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:46,770
Ah, this is, oh, there we go.

1373
00:48:46,850 --> 00:48:48,110
He's sitting in New Jersey.

1374
00:48:48,110 --> 00:48:51,770
He's got a eight gigabit, eight megabit connection.

1375
00:48:51,970 --> 00:48:53,830
He's going to be serving HLS video for

1376
00:48:53,830 --> 00:48:54,350
the world.

1377
00:48:54,490 --> 00:48:55,450
No, not from here.

1378
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:55,870
No, no, no.

1379
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:59,610
I'm on an Xfinity, like 20 meg up.

1380
00:48:59,930 --> 00:49:01,850
Xfinity is already my favorite term.

1381
00:49:02,290 --> 00:49:02,770
Xfinity.

1382
00:49:03,190 --> 00:49:03,670
Xfinity.

1383
00:49:03,990 --> 00:49:05,690
Xfinity, yes.

1384
00:49:07,070 --> 00:49:09,550
No, but it's like, it is, it's interesting.

1385
00:49:09,790 --> 00:49:12,050
And I think it's, I don't know, everyone's

1386
00:49:12,050 --> 00:49:13,530
videoed out and I'm kind of videoed out

1387
00:49:13,530 --> 00:49:15,490
as well to be, I actually don't watch

1388
00:49:15,490 --> 00:49:16,210
a lot of TV.

1389
00:49:16,870 --> 00:49:18,330
I don't know who's watching all these YouTube

1390
00:49:18,330 --> 00:49:19,390
videos, but it's.

1391
00:49:19,550 --> 00:49:20,470
I'm videoed out too.

1392
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:21,350
I agree.

1393
00:49:23,470 --> 00:49:27,310
My video content consumption has just, continues to

1394
00:49:27,310 --> 00:49:29,310
steadily go down and down and down.

1395
00:49:29,530 --> 00:49:30,330
Yeah, there you have it.

1396
00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:32,130
I've gotten to where, I've gotten to where

1397
00:49:32,130 --> 00:49:35,190
the only thing I really watch on YouTube

1398
00:49:35,190 --> 00:49:38,870
is just how-to videos, if I need

1399
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:39,270
to do something.

1400
00:49:39,310 --> 00:49:41,890
Russian dash cam crash videos.

1401
00:49:42,110 --> 00:49:42,750
That's the best.

1402
00:49:42,750 --> 00:49:43,010
Oh God.

1403
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:44,050
That's the best.

1404
00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:47,250
My video watching is basically like my drinking.

1405
00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:49,070
It's basically just social situations.

1406
00:49:49,250 --> 00:49:50,170
That's about it.

1407
00:49:50,210 --> 00:49:51,570
Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

1408
00:49:53,110 --> 00:49:56,410
That, Spurlock, I wanted to ask you about,

1409
00:49:58,470 --> 00:50:02,830
about the SPC, the standard podcast consumption.

1410
00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:04,390
Oh, right, from the last conference.

1411
00:50:04,490 --> 00:50:05,910
That's the proposal that came out of the

1412
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:06,470
last conference.

1413
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:07,050
Yes, yes, yes.

1414
00:50:07,050 --> 00:50:08,910
I like that proposal a lot, by the

1415
00:50:08,910 --> 00:50:09,070
way.

1416
00:50:09,090 --> 00:50:10,150
I really like it.

1417
00:50:11,410 --> 00:50:14,470
It's very small, but yeah, what were you

1418
00:50:14,470 --> 00:50:15,170
interested in, Dave?

1419
00:50:15,890 --> 00:50:18,890
Well, I just- In getting it deployed,

1420
00:50:19,050 --> 00:50:20,610
getting people to use it is what I'm

1421
00:50:20,610 --> 00:50:21,110
interested in.

1422
00:50:21,170 --> 00:50:22,350
I think it's a great idea.

1423
00:50:23,050 --> 00:50:24,350
Well, I've got a ton of notes here,

1424
00:50:24,430 --> 00:50:26,010
but it may be, rather than me trying

1425
00:50:26,010 --> 00:50:30,430
to read this off, do you want to

1426
00:50:30,430 --> 00:50:33,310
give a thumbnail sketch of what it is?

1427
00:50:33,850 --> 00:50:34,870
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

1428
00:50:35,050 --> 00:50:37,230
So if you go to, I think the

1429
00:50:37,230 --> 00:50:38,230
easiest way to get to it now is

1430
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:41,530
just livewire.io slash SPC.

1431
00:50:41,710 --> 00:50:43,090
There's a small blog post and then a

1432
00:50:43,090 --> 00:50:46,390
link to the nitty gritty, but it's really

1433
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:47,530
a very small spec.

1434
00:50:48,390 --> 00:50:50,190
The idea is, hey, we're all in this

1435
00:50:50,190 --> 00:50:50,970
open ecosystem.

1436
00:50:51,490 --> 00:50:53,950
We have the players that are sometimes owned

1437
00:50:53,950 --> 00:50:55,930
differently than the server side.

1438
00:50:56,430 --> 00:50:57,950
And in order to compete with all the

1439
00:50:57,950 --> 00:50:59,750
other folks that are integrated, you kind of

1440
00:50:59,750 --> 00:51:01,950
need the information flow to go both ways,

1441
00:51:02,010 --> 00:51:02,250
right?

1442
00:51:02,310 --> 00:51:05,790
And so right now, apps can kind of

1443
00:51:05,790 --> 00:51:08,350
leech off of the content providers and say

1444
00:51:08,350 --> 00:51:09,910
like, hey, you're providing all this good stuff,

1445
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:12,470
but they can't see what's going on in

1446
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:12,970
the other direction.

1447
00:51:13,050 --> 00:51:15,150
All they get is downloads, which is basically

1448
00:51:15,150 --> 00:51:17,570
like, maybe I auto downloaded it, who knows?

1449
00:51:17,970 --> 00:51:19,410
So it would be great for all of

1450
00:51:19,410 --> 00:51:20,670
us to kind of say like, hey, I'm

1451
00:51:20,670 --> 00:51:23,890
an app and I know some cool stuff

1452
00:51:23,890 --> 00:51:25,770
about what's going on with your show that

1453
00:51:25,770 --> 00:51:26,770
I'm showing in my app.

1454
00:51:28,270 --> 00:51:29,890
Overcast has done this for the longest time.

1455
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:32,410
So when they hit, they have to go

1456
00:51:32,410 --> 00:51:34,290
out and crawl RSS feeds on the server.

1457
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:37,570
But instead of just passing an overcast.fm

1458
00:51:37,570 --> 00:51:40,030
as the user agent, he's like overcast.fm.

1459
00:51:40,590 --> 00:51:44,230
And by the way, your show has 25

1460
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:47,050
subscribers in overcast just as part of the

1461
00:51:47,050 --> 00:51:49,050
string, as part of the user agent string.

1462
00:51:49,590 --> 00:51:50,790
It's a call they were gonna make anyway,

1463
00:51:50,890 --> 00:51:51,010
right?

1464
00:51:51,050 --> 00:51:52,070
It's a call he's gonna make anyway.

1465
00:51:52,190 --> 00:51:53,770
It's a call the server is gonna see

1466
00:51:53,770 --> 00:51:54,130
anyway.

1467
00:51:54,890 --> 00:51:57,390
So SPC is basically just taking that one

1468
00:51:57,390 --> 00:51:58,030
click forward.

1469
00:51:58,190 --> 00:51:59,090
It's the same idea.

1470
00:51:59,890 --> 00:52:02,490
But instead of like passing the numbers down

1471
00:52:02,490 --> 00:52:03,850
in the user agent, cause that could get

1472
00:52:03,850 --> 00:52:04,350
unwieldy.

1473
00:52:05,210 --> 00:52:07,470
It's just saying like, here's a URL.

1474
00:52:07,750 --> 00:52:08,950
You hit the secret URL.

1475
00:52:09,350 --> 00:52:11,570
You get all the information for this show

1476
00:52:11,570 --> 00:52:13,450
that I know about for my app.

1477
00:52:13,850 --> 00:52:16,050
And then what's cool about it is there's

1478
00:52:16,050 --> 00:52:18,050
no new tags, right?

1479
00:52:18,170 --> 00:52:21,130
There's no, even if you hate the podcast

1480
00:52:21,130 --> 00:52:23,450
namespace, podcasting 2.0, it's horrible.

1481
00:52:24,150 --> 00:52:27,070
Like there's nothing, no namespace requirements.

1482
00:52:27,070 --> 00:52:28,950
There's nothing that relies on servers.

1483
00:52:29,110 --> 00:52:31,670
It's calls that are already being made, but

1484
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:33,930
it just exists kind of above that layer.

1485
00:52:34,090 --> 00:52:37,030
So in theory, there's really nothing that prevents

1486
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:39,510
Apple or Overcast or anyone from doing this,

1487
00:52:39,570 --> 00:52:39,710
right?

1488
00:52:39,730 --> 00:52:41,890
This is something that anyone could do and

1489
00:52:41,890 --> 00:52:43,010
it doesn't require a handshake.

1490
00:52:43,130 --> 00:52:45,950
So you could start collecting this data as

1491
00:52:45,950 --> 00:52:49,970
an app and making those URLs available, but

1492
00:52:49,970 --> 00:52:51,370
maybe no one hits it right away.

1493
00:52:51,450 --> 00:52:52,910
And then it takes them a while, but

1494
00:52:52,910 --> 00:52:54,570
let me tell you, if you're on the

1495
00:52:54,570 --> 00:52:56,630
server and you're seeing these cool URLs coming

1496
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:58,310
in and saying like, here's information about the

1497
00:52:58,310 --> 00:53:00,490
show that you're, you are gonna integrate that,

1498
00:53:00,550 --> 00:53:00,690
right?

1499
00:53:00,710 --> 00:53:01,990
You're gonna say, oh, this is great.

1500
00:53:02,670 --> 00:53:04,150
And so none of this requires meetings.

1501
00:53:04,250 --> 00:53:05,310
None of this requires authentication.

1502
00:53:06,150 --> 00:53:09,550
It's secret in the sense that private podcast

1503
00:53:09,550 --> 00:53:10,650
feeds are secret, right?

1504
00:53:10,650 --> 00:53:12,950
So they're just a URL that's unguessable.

1505
00:53:13,310 --> 00:53:14,630
And that's part of the spec on how

1506
00:53:14,630 --> 00:53:15,350
to create those.

1507
00:53:16,090 --> 00:53:17,670
But if the host wants to share those

1508
00:53:17,670 --> 00:53:20,470
with a larger, like an analytics service, they

1509
00:53:20,470 --> 00:53:20,850
can.

1510
00:53:21,510 --> 00:53:23,950
But by default, since it goes directly server

1511
00:53:23,950 --> 00:53:26,090
to server, even your analytics companies will not

1512
00:53:26,090 --> 00:53:26,770
see this, right?

1513
00:53:26,850 --> 00:53:29,610
So it's OP3, for example, won't see this

1514
00:53:29,610 --> 00:53:30,510
going back and forth.

1515
00:53:30,630 --> 00:53:32,890
So the podcaster is always in control of,

1516
00:53:33,330 --> 00:53:35,170
or whoever's hosting their podcast is in control

1517
00:53:35,170 --> 00:53:36,170
of what happens to this.

1518
00:53:37,250 --> 00:53:39,030
And so really the trick is like, what

1519
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:39,630
is the payload?

1520
00:53:39,850 --> 00:53:42,210
What's interesting on the other end?

1521
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:44,470
And when I was back in the, what

1522
00:53:44,470 --> 00:53:47,210
was it, the Evolutions Conference in Chicago, I

1523
00:53:47,210 --> 00:53:48,610
had a bunch of conversations about this.

1524
00:53:48,750 --> 00:53:51,070
And the thing that sort of surprised me

1525
00:53:51,070 --> 00:53:52,750
is like, if you had to stack rank,

1526
00:53:53,010 --> 00:53:54,790
like, what is the information you're not getting

1527
00:53:54,790 --> 00:53:56,010
now from these apps that you would ask

1528
00:53:56,010 --> 00:53:57,230
for in a standard way?

1529
00:53:58,030 --> 00:54:00,030
Number one was the retention graph.

1530
00:54:00,330 --> 00:54:03,370
So kind of like how far, you know,

1531
00:54:03,470 --> 00:54:04,870
it's great, like a play is great, but

1532
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:06,450
like, how far did they get, right?

1533
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:07,630
Like, where did they drop off?

1534
00:54:08,250 --> 00:54:09,630
It's kind of like that cool graph that

1535
00:54:09,630 --> 00:54:11,070
they'll show on OP3 for all the Adam

1536
00:54:11,070 --> 00:54:11,670
shows, right?

1537
00:54:11,730 --> 00:54:14,290
Where you can see who's streaming and where

1538
00:54:14,290 --> 00:54:14,690
it drops off.

1539
00:54:14,730 --> 00:54:15,790
I don't know if that's useful or not,

1540
00:54:15,810 --> 00:54:17,010
but I find it kind of interesting.

1541
00:54:17,090 --> 00:54:19,270
And it kind of like reinforces kind of

1542
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:20,790
anecdotally what I would have thought.

1543
00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:22,650
It's the only stats I ever look at.

1544
00:54:23,090 --> 00:54:24,330
Yeah, it's kind of cool, isn't it?

1545
00:54:24,350 --> 00:54:25,930
Sort of saying like, it's more than just

1546
00:54:25,930 --> 00:54:27,230
like a download is a download.

1547
00:54:27,390 --> 00:54:28,930
It's like, oh, I see that when we

1548
00:54:28,930 --> 00:54:31,070
start this segment, people start to drop off,

1549
00:54:31,070 --> 00:54:32,210
that sort of thing.

1550
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:33,930
And only the apps know this, right?

1551
00:54:33,930 --> 00:54:36,750
There's nothing that the server can tell just

1552
00:54:36,750 --> 00:54:37,730
from downloads coming in.

1553
00:54:37,830 --> 00:54:39,510
So this is one way for the app

1554
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:41,190
to kind of make this available and make

1555
00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:42,130
this available at scale.

1556
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:44,010
It's all static data, right?

1557
00:54:44,050 --> 00:54:46,590
So the app can kind of like recompute

1558
00:54:46,590 --> 00:54:47,490
this whenever it wants.

1559
00:54:47,530 --> 00:54:48,550
It doesn't have to do this in real

1560
00:54:48,550 --> 00:54:51,370
time, but it's kind of a nice, simple

1561
00:54:51,370 --> 00:54:54,250
way for apps to provide this data and

1562
00:54:54,250 --> 00:54:56,890
for servers to obtain it on behalf of

1563
00:54:56,890 --> 00:54:57,550
the podcasters.

1564
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:05,040
Yeah, I was thinking that to start with,

1565
00:55:05,420 --> 00:55:07,980
apps could just give the basics.

1566
00:55:08,140 --> 00:55:09,740
They could just give like a follower account.

1567
00:55:10,660 --> 00:55:10,940
Exactly.

1568
00:55:11,100 --> 00:55:12,140
If they have it.

1569
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:13,380
I mean, there's always gonna be some apps

1570
00:55:13,380 --> 00:55:14,480
that just don't even have this.

1571
00:55:14,620 --> 00:55:17,520
I mean, if they don't have a backend

1572
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:18,180
or...

1573
00:55:18,180 --> 00:55:20,440
I mean, I'd love to give it from

1574
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:24,160
the Godcaster because we stream episodes and I'd

1575
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,280
love to add to that a report of

1576
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,360
how many people just dumped into an episode

1577
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:30,540
and streamed it.

1578
00:55:30,860 --> 00:55:32,740
And I'd like to get those numbers back

1579
00:55:32,740 --> 00:55:34,780
too, which is something they can't get at

1580
00:55:34,780 --> 00:55:35,060
all.

1581
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,460
That's exactly why I got to thinking about

1582
00:55:39,460 --> 00:55:43,040
the SPC and talking to John is because

1583
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:44,800
I was like, I was thinking the other

1584
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,100
day, as I was doing some work on

1585
00:55:47,100 --> 00:55:49,200
Godcaster, I was like, we need to start

1586
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,040
thinking about a way to give some stats

1587
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,840
back and this actually makes some sense.

1588
00:55:53,980 --> 00:55:59,320
And we could be an app that pushes

1589
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:00,940
how to do this.

1590
00:56:02,020 --> 00:56:04,440
We could start the ball rolling on this.

1591
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,120
We already have a producer login.

1592
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:07,260
We could add it right there.

1593
00:56:08,340 --> 00:56:09,200
That's a good idea.

1594
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:11,300
Yeah, that's a great idea.

1595
00:56:11,540 --> 00:56:12,680
And it can be done incrementally.

1596
00:56:12,820 --> 00:56:13,860
So you don't have to add it to

1597
00:56:13,860 --> 00:56:14,540
all your shows.

1598
00:56:14,660 --> 00:56:15,680
You could start out with one or two

1599
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:16,320
shows, right?

1600
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:17,780
It's nothing that says you have to do

1601
00:56:17,780 --> 00:56:18,880
this for all the shows.

1602
00:56:19,720 --> 00:56:21,700
It's just like, as you do it, Apple

1603
00:56:21,700 --> 00:56:23,040
the same way, like if they wanted to

1604
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:24,600
do it on some, but not others, it'd

1605
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:25,740
be totally possible, right?

1606
00:56:26,260 --> 00:56:27,760
So it's all very loose, right?

1607
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:29,540
The big thing that I guess we would

1608
00:56:29,540 --> 00:56:31,580
all need to agree on is like, it's

1609
00:56:31,580 --> 00:56:34,040
just a JSON document that comes back.

1610
00:56:34,100 --> 00:56:36,120
Like what are the standard fields in there?

1611
00:56:36,180 --> 00:56:38,420
Like what are people mostly interested in and

1612
00:56:38,420 --> 00:56:41,600
what is worth the trade-off of like

1613
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,560
expensive for the app to compute, but also

1614
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,480
it provides a lot of value to the

1615
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:47,660
show.

1616
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:49,260
And like you said, I like the idea

1617
00:56:49,260 --> 00:56:50,680
that it's almost like advertising.

1618
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,360
It's saying like, hey, Godcaster is great because

1619
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,480
it sends all this interesting stuff that you

1620
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,060
weren't getting otherwise without a portal.

1621
00:56:59,500 --> 00:57:02,420
Yeah, because we don't have followers per se.

1622
00:57:03,100 --> 00:57:05,880
So in most of our stats, I mean,

1623
00:57:05,940 --> 00:57:09,200
we would on the podcast side because when

1624
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,280
we publish our stuff back out to podcast

1625
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,700
apps, you know, that's just goes out as

1626
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:15,340
an RSS feed.

1627
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,500
So we could probably, but then that goes,

1628
00:57:17,620 --> 00:57:18,860
that's into the hand of the app.

1629
00:57:18,940 --> 00:57:20,920
So we really don't have those numbers very

1630
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:22,760
much, but we would have like total listen

1631
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:23,940
time and things like that.

1632
00:57:23,980 --> 00:57:26,740
We could push that back out and that

1633
00:57:26,740 --> 00:57:28,080
would probably be really helpful.

1634
00:57:28,260 --> 00:57:30,100
I don't, some of the examples you have,

1635
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,560
I don't really know what a histogram is.

1636
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:33,960
So I don't think I could do that

1637
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:35,240
cause I don't even know what it is.

1638
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,320
I always scroll past that.

1639
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,440
I'm like, all right, whatever that is, it's

1640
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:40,660
pretty.

1641
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:41,700
I mean, it looks pretty.

1642
00:57:41,700 --> 00:57:43,280
Dave, have you seen the graphs that we

1643
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,680
have at OP3 for the value for money

1644
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:46,000
shows?

1645
00:57:46,780 --> 00:57:48,680
So it's the live listen graph.

1646
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:49,980
It'll show, it's just a bunch of bars,

1647
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:50,380
right?

1648
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,740
So it'll show like, now that one is

1649
00:57:52,740 --> 00:57:54,700
actually fairly detailed, but some of them are

1650
00:57:54,700 --> 00:57:55,220
just like- I can do a bunch

1651
00:57:55,220 --> 00:57:56,440
of bars if that's all it is.

1652
00:57:56,460 --> 00:57:57,480
I can just make a bunch of bars.

1653
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,580
Yeah, it's just grouped into, some histograms are

1654
00:57:59,580 --> 00:58:00,400
very low resolution.

1655
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,180
It's just like 25%, 50%, 7,500.

1656
00:58:04,780 --> 00:58:06,560
But that one is like, you know, it

1657
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,360
got to this minute cause you can calculate

1658
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:09,960
that, but just whatever.

1659
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:11,420
It's like, you know, they're in the desert

1660
00:58:11,420 --> 00:58:11,620
here.

1661
00:58:11,620 --> 00:58:13,940
We got to give them some water, right?

1662
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:14,480
It doesn't matter.

1663
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,040
Just anything is better than what they have

1664
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:16,280
now.

1665
00:58:16,460 --> 00:58:18,140
Even if you give back the listens, I

1666
00:58:18,140 --> 00:58:19,900
mean, they know what you're getting from a

1667
00:58:19,900 --> 00:58:20,720
download point of view.

1668
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:22,480
So they can do that math on their

1669
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,560
side and say like, oh, this many downloads

1670
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:28,160
results in this many listeners.

1671
00:58:28,420 --> 00:58:30,880
Then they can take that ratio and apply

1672
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:31,160
it else.

1673
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:32,860
So it's super useful.

1674
00:58:33,340 --> 00:58:34,360
It's like signal, right?

1675
00:58:34,420 --> 00:58:36,400
It's a signal that they do not have

1676
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:36,800
right now.

1677
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:39,180
Yeah, so that would be a good way

1678
00:58:39,180 --> 00:58:41,220
to say, well, yeah, I like that idea.

1679
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,680
Cause you're saying, here's total, I'm giving you

1680
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:46,480
back total listen hours and I already know

1681
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:47,340
what the downloads are.

1682
00:58:47,380 --> 00:58:49,080
And here's a correlation I can make.

1683
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:50,720
And that correlation may be different for every,

1684
00:58:50,860 --> 00:58:53,540
it will be different for every single show.

1685
00:58:54,980 --> 00:58:55,900
You know, that's not going to be the

1686
00:58:55,900 --> 00:58:56,000
same.

1687
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,320
It'll be different for every app too.

1688
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,140
But listen, like I'm sure everyone knows the

1689
00:59:00,140 --> 00:59:03,140
math that happens in podcast world is not

1690
00:59:03,140 --> 00:59:06,960
as precise as, we're not launching rockets with

1691
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:07,320
this math.

1692
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:11,240
That's the George Bush fuzzy math is what

1693
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:12,860
the podcasting uses, yeah.

1694
00:59:14,620 --> 00:59:18,440
No, I think we should do this.

1695
00:59:19,140 --> 00:59:23,420
Cause this falls under the category of things

1696
00:59:23,420 --> 00:59:27,720
that I think need to exist just so

1697
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:32,440
that somebody else coming along later doesn't try

1698
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,580
to reinvent a wheel that is going to

1699
00:59:35,580 --> 00:59:36,180
fall off.

1700
00:59:37,340 --> 00:59:42,240
This is the best proposal for a way

1701
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:43,780
to do this that I have seen.

1702
00:59:44,820 --> 00:59:48,040
And I cannot think of a different way

1703
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:51,160
to do this that would not be just

1704
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:52,180
an immediate no.

1705
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:55,540
I mean, everything, every proposal we've seen about

1706
00:59:55,540 --> 00:59:57,100
stuff like this has always been some different

1707
00:59:57,100 --> 00:59:58,480
version of rad.

1708
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,300
Oh yeah, very complicated.

1709
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,440
And I just don't think that's, I think

1710
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:05,880
every one of those things are just going

1711
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:07,040
to fall flat on their face.

1712
01:00:07,620 --> 01:00:08,980
This one actually seems doable.

1713
01:00:09,220 --> 01:00:10,940
So if we, but we just need somebody

1714
01:00:10,940 --> 01:00:11,520
to do it.

1715
01:00:11,540 --> 01:00:14,260
And I'm willing to put that work in.

1716
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,280
It's worth saying like there is nothing listener

1717
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:18,360
specific about this, right?

1718
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:21,560
So all of these statistics are aggregate numbers,

1719
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:21,820
right?

1720
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:23,680
They're just like, there's nothing that would ever

1721
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,340
be at the level of a listen in

1722
01:00:25,340 --> 01:00:25,900
these ads.

1723
01:00:26,500 --> 01:00:27,640
So in that case, it's not like-

1724
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:28,920
Now, where do you stick this?

1725
01:00:29,020 --> 01:00:30,800
You just stick this in the header response?

1726
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:32,800
In the request.

1727
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:37,000
So as the app, when you're requesting the

1728
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:38,260
no agenda feed, right?

1729
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,880
So you're, it's just a HTTP request.

1730
01:00:41,260 --> 01:00:43,500
Instead of saying like, I'm coming from Godcaster,

1731
01:00:43,620 --> 01:00:45,580
you say, I'm coming from Godcaster and for

1732
01:00:45,580 --> 01:00:49,120
your show, hit this URL for it.

1733
01:00:49,140 --> 01:00:50,580
And then they can choose to do nothing

1734
01:00:50,580 --> 01:00:52,380
with it or hit the URL periodically to

1735
01:00:52,380 --> 01:00:53,100
see what's going on.

1736
01:00:53,300 --> 01:00:55,400
That's literally it, like it's so basic.

1737
01:00:55,820 --> 01:00:57,500
Everything else would complicate it, right?

1738
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:01,060
And every time you introduce more complications, you

1739
01:01:01,060 --> 01:01:01,840
just lose people.

1740
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:02,960
You're like, no, I'm not going to do

1741
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:03,080
that.

1742
01:01:03,180 --> 01:01:04,320
Nope, I'm going to push this off.

1743
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,040
So the idea here is to make it

1744
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:07,160
as simple as possible.

1745
01:01:07,500 --> 01:01:09,080
I think the proper way to do this,

1746
01:01:09,100 --> 01:01:11,580
if you agree, is would really probably just

1747
01:01:11,580 --> 01:01:19,360
be push, compile, compile this response, this JSON

1748
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:23,880
response, compile that into a document, stick it

1749
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,900
in object storage, and then send that back

1750
01:01:26,900 --> 01:01:28,320
as the URL, the callback.

1751
01:01:28,340 --> 01:01:30,560
Exactly, so that would be the idea is

1752
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:32,660
that you do this periodically every day, every

1753
01:01:32,660 --> 01:01:34,000
week, whatever, right?

1754
01:01:34,020 --> 01:01:35,880
And then on your time, we don't want

1755
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:37,480
to bankrupt the apps here, but it's just

1756
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:39,720
like, if they already have this, they can

1757
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:41,860
go through for some shows and it could

1758
01:01:41,860 --> 01:01:43,420
be a threshold where you only do it

1759
01:01:43,420 --> 01:01:46,780
for shows above 100 downloads or something like

1760
01:01:46,780 --> 01:01:47,060
that.

1761
01:01:47,220 --> 01:01:48,300
So it's not like it has to be

1762
01:01:48,300 --> 01:01:51,520
everyone, but it could be a static, so

1763
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:52,460
that was the idea, right?

1764
01:01:52,460 --> 01:01:53,540
There's nothing that's dynamic.

1765
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:55,860
It could be, it doesn't take query parameters

1766
01:01:55,860 --> 01:01:58,520
like query by year, right?

1767
01:01:58,540 --> 01:01:59,740
And give me the minute by minute.

1768
01:01:59,740 --> 01:02:02,000
No, it's like, this is a static file.

1769
01:02:02,100 --> 01:02:03,600
And so it can be stored on object

1770
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,180
storage or your CDN of choice.

1771
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:09,540
Yeah, that makes sense.

1772
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:10,900
I mean, if you already have the stats,

1773
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:12,340
why not?

1774
01:02:12,900 --> 01:02:13,660
You just need a server.

1775
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,220
So like you said, it's like, it's not

1776
01:02:15,220 --> 01:02:16,580
gonna work for an app that's like purely

1777
01:02:16,580 --> 01:02:18,540
in the app store, but a lot of

1778
01:02:18,540 --> 01:02:20,020
the apps nowadays, and I know even the

1779
01:02:20,020 --> 01:02:22,860
ones that started out app only, they introduce

1780
01:02:22,860 --> 01:02:23,560
a server, right?

1781
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:25,300
Because there's some good stuff that you have

1782
01:02:25,300 --> 01:02:26,900
to kind of have on a machine that

1783
01:02:26,900 --> 01:02:28,820
you control and that sort of thing.

1784
01:02:28,820 --> 01:02:30,020
So that's where this would live.

1785
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:35,720
Now, sometimes they don't, sometimes apps don't have

1786
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,560
a, they'll have a backend, they'll have a

1787
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,360
server, but the server's not really doing this

1788
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:42,040
type of stuff.

1789
01:02:42,140 --> 01:02:44,480
It's like Castamatic, you know, he's got a

1790
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,220
server now, but it's mostly doing like pod

1791
01:02:46,220 --> 01:02:46,860
pings and stuff.

1792
01:02:46,900 --> 01:02:48,060
It's not doing this.

1793
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:48,900
Right.

1794
01:02:49,300 --> 01:02:52,000
So that would be different.

1795
01:02:52,180 --> 01:02:54,200
The other, yeah, and the other thing I

1796
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,500
think you just mentioned, did the other potential

1797
01:02:56,500 --> 01:02:59,480
barrier here is that nobody really wants to

1798
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:00,480
be in the stats business.

1799
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,260
You know, it's kind of a sucky business.

1800
01:03:04,460 --> 01:03:07,660
We should also probably address the elephant in

1801
01:03:07,660 --> 01:03:09,660
the room and it's the feedback I get

1802
01:03:09,660 --> 01:03:10,120
sometimes.

1803
01:03:10,220 --> 01:03:11,820
It's like, oh, this is valuable.

1804
01:03:11,900 --> 01:03:13,040
I can charge for this.

1805
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:15,220
Give me half a cent for this, for

1806
01:03:15,220 --> 01:03:15,540
sure.

1807
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:16,840
Yeah, right.

1808
01:03:17,100 --> 01:03:18,780
And to me, that is just like totally

1809
01:03:18,780 --> 01:03:19,800
missing the point.

1810
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,800
It's like, this is information so that these

1811
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,040
loose pieces, so that we can stay a

1812
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:27,200
loose confederation, right?

1813
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,620
If we don't pass this information back and

1814
01:03:29,620 --> 01:03:31,480
forth, then we're just not going to be

1815
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,060
as interesting as a full stack, right?

1816
01:03:34,060 --> 01:03:35,140
We're never going to be able to compete.

1817
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,100
And yes, I guess if if like Apple

1818
01:03:38,100 --> 01:03:40,040
podcasts wanted to charge, maybe.

1819
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:41,320
I'm trying to think of like the largest

1820
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,800
app that you would actually pay to get

1821
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:44,980
this in a standard way, maybe.

1822
01:03:45,140 --> 01:03:47,040
But even then, I mean, this is not

1823
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:48,340
rent money that we're making here, right?

1824
01:03:48,380 --> 01:03:50,120
This the job of an app is to

1825
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:52,140
have something worth paying for, either from the

1826
01:03:52,140 --> 01:03:54,880
listeners or from the sponsors or advertisers.

1827
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:55,160
Right.

1828
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,080
Like it's not to like nickel and dime

1829
01:03:58,080 --> 01:03:59,440
you on the stats on the back end

1830
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,260
for podcasters that don't have any money anyway.

1831
01:04:01,260 --> 01:04:01,580
Right.

1832
01:04:01,660 --> 01:04:03,080
So right.

1833
01:04:03,300 --> 01:04:03,520
Yeah.

1834
01:04:04,300 --> 01:04:04,540
Yeah.

1835
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:05,940
No, but yeah, I agree.

1836
01:04:06,180 --> 01:04:08,300
We can just we can just give this

1837
01:04:08,300 --> 01:04:08,800
back.

1838
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:14,440
And, you know, with the the apps may.

1839
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:18,600
They may be resistant from the standpoint of

1840
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,100
wanting to of not wanting to be in

1841
01:04:21,100 --> 01:04:21,920
the stats business.

1842
01:04:22,500 --> 01:04:23,580
You know, hey, we don't want it like

1843
01:04:24,140 --> 01:04:26,800
because the thing about stats that blows.

1844
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:31,500
Is that it takes so much storage.

1845
01:04:32,100 --> 01:04:34,620
I mean, these the hosting companies, if you

1846
01:04:34,620 --> 01:04:36,140
know, if you see it, when you when

1847
01:04:36,140 --> 01:04:37,540
you see there or hear them talk about

1848
01:04:37,540 --> 01:04:38,720
their stats databases.

1849
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:44,100
I mean, they're just terabytes of, you know,

1850
01:04:44,100 --> 01:04:47,980
gigantic databases that are just like so easy

1851
01:04:47,980 --> 01:04:48,660
to break.

1852
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,700
And and it's it's a really bad business

1853
01:04:51,700 --> 01:04:53,220
to be in is the stats business.

1854
01:04:53,220 --> 01:04:55,280
So and if you get them wrong, you

1855
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,560
know, like if suddenly you realize that you

1856
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,300
were recording stats wrong, maybe you had a

1857
01:05:00,300 --> 01:05:02,540
bug in your stats collection that was calculating

1858
01:05:02,540 --> 01:05:05,160
something wrong for even a few days.

1859
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,200
I mean, going back and fixing that is

1860
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:09,180
really difficult.

1861
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:11,940
I mean, if there's one thing about the

1862
01:05:11,940 --> 01:05:15,140
IAB that's positive is that they come in

1863
01:05:15,140 --> 01:05:17,700
and try to, you know, and give you

1864
01:05:17,700 --> 01:05:20,060
they give you as a hosting company a

1865
01:05:20,060 --> 01:05:22,240
reason to audit your stats and find out

1866
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:23,320
if there are bugs.

1867
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:27,120
Now, now the end result is fuzzy math

1868
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:29,620
like we all like we all know, but

1869
01:05:29,620 --> 01:05:32,780
at least some it gives you a legit

1870
01:05:32,780 --> 01:05:35,920
reason to like really do some intense code

1871
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:37,660
review for a while and check your stats

1872
01:05:37,660 --> 01:05:39,540
and make sure that you're not messing something

1873
01:05:39,540 --> 01:05:39,840
up.

1874
01:05:39,900 --> 01:05:41,500
But it's just a messy business.

1875
01:05:41,500 --> 01:05:43,460
And I'm sure some some apps are probably

1876
01:05:43,460 --> 01:05:46,040
just like, nah, we know we'll never want

1877
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:46,880
to fool with this.

1878
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,680
But if you have it, you might on

1879
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,320
the on the hosting side, if you don't

1880
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:53,560
want to do this, you can always use

1881
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:54,960
OP three or get my OP.

1882
01:05:55,020 --> 01:05:56,120
How's that going, by the way?

1883
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:56,660
How's that?

1884
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:58,620
How how is OP three doing?

1885
01:05:58,680 --> 01:05:59,620
I love OP three.

1886
01:05:59,700 --> 01:06:01,820
And whenever someone asked me about something, I

1887
01:06:01,820 --> 01:06:03,880
I've been, oh, you can look over here

1888
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:05,900
because we don't care about stats.

1889
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:07,500
We just care about value.

1890
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:09,640
I mean, I see I see the hits,

1891
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:09,920
Adam.

1892
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:10,260
I see.

1893
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:11,240
I see who's looking at that.

1894
01:06:11,260 --> 01:06:12,900
I'm burning your late at night, baby.

1895
01:06:14,500 --> 01:06:16,680
I mean, but Dave's totally right.

1896
01:06:16,820 --> 01:06:19,640
And like OP three does about 17 million

1897
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,820
podcast downloads a month at this point.

1898
01:06:23,060 --> 01:06:25,160
And I think there's about thirty three hundred

1899
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:26,400
non music shows.

1900
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:28,320
There's a ton of music shows as well.

1901
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:29,480
But the non music, I think is about

1902
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:30,220
thirty three hundred.

1903
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:30,940
Wow.

1904
01:06:31,100 --> 01:06:33,520
And but it is it's not cheap.

1905
01:06:33,540 --> 01:06:33,780
Right.

1906
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:34,920
So you can look at our costs.

1907
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:36,300
You can go to OP three dot dev

1908
01:06:36,300 --> 01:06:37,280
slash costs.

1909
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:40,060
I thought it would be given the nature

1910
01:06:40,060 --> 01:06:40,600
of this project.

1911
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:41,760
I wanted to make sure that all of

1912
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:43,300
our costs are fully out there in public

1913
01:06:43,300 --> 01:06:43,700
as well.

1914
01:06:44,100 --> 01:06:46,160
And I had to do some things once

1915
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:48,060
it started growing and we started having larger

1916
01:06:48,060 --> 01:06:50,620
shows on board to like really cut off

1917
01:06:50,620 --> 01:06:52,140
the various filters that are provided.

1918
01:06:52,380 --> 01:06:54,380
You can you can save it all, but

1919
01:06:54,380 --> 01:06:56,200
it's you pay for it on coming back

1920
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:56,520
out.

1921
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:58,720
So slash costs with an S.

1922
01:06:59,400 --> 01:06:59,720
Yeah.

1923
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:02,040
So OP three dot dev slash costs.

1924
01:07:02,300 --> 01:07:04,200
Yeah, it's not it's not opening for me.

1925
01:07:05,500 --> 01:07:07,140
I already broke your server.

1926
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:07,820
Oh, here we go.

1927
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:09,080
I got holy moly.

1928
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,540
And so that I'm not hiding anything there.

1929
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,180
So that's everything either 500 bucks a month.

1930
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:16,780
And yeah, yeah.

1931
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,380
So it's not it's not inexpensive.

1932
01:07:19,380 --> 01:07:21,940
Now, you could probably do this cheaper if

1933
01:07:21,940 --> 01:07:24,220
you had a secret server chomping away on

1934
01:07:24,220 --> 01:07:24,400
this.

1935
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,480
But I'm running this all on public cloud

1936
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:26,760
flare.

1937
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,000
So like in theory, you can say you

1938
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:30,520
can see if you wanted to.

1939
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:32,940
You could trace every request back to like

1940
01:07:32,940 --> 01:07:34,220
where it's stored and you can see that

1941
01:07:34,220 --> 01:07:35,600
like no IPs are being lost.

1942
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:38,740
But so it's a little more expensive than

1943
01:07:38,740 --> 01:07:39,500
otherwise might be.

1944
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:41,620
But the upside is it never goes down.

1945
01:07:41,900 --> 01:07:44,280
So it's never been down for the I

1946
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:45,960
think three years now that it's been running.

1947
01:07:46,180 --> 01:07:47,920
And it's yeah, people are coming on board

1948
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:48,380
all the time.

1949
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:50,000
A lot of agencies like it because they

1950
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,260
can put it on all their shows and

1951
01:07:52,260 --> 01:07:54,380
get kind of an apples to apples comparison.

1952
01:07:54,540 --> 01:07:56,260
And did I mention it's free, right?

1953
01:07:56,360 --> 01:08:00,020
But why don't you have just you don't

1954
01:08:00,020 --> 01:08:03,600
have a an open value giving link?

1955
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:06,980
You know, we did back in the day.

1956
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:08,400
Oh, you mean like a little button there

1957
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,140
that's like, give me a coffee sort of.

1958
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:12,160
I won't give you a coffee.

1959
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:14,840
I'll give you a gourmet.

1960
01:08:15,899 --> 01:08:18,180
But I can only buy sponsorships.

1961
01:08:18,300 --> 01:08:19,279
I want to support you.

1962
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:22,760
Well, I do like the idea of kind

1963
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:24,160
of a one time sort of payment.

1964
01:08:24,260 --> 01:08:25,660
I should get my act together on that.

1965
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:27,460
So maybe right by the costs or something.

1966
01:08:27,660 --> 01:08:29,580
Yeah, I think I even the sponsorship links

1967
01:08:29,580 --> 01:08:30,899
are on GitHub, which is not ideal.

1968
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:32,000
That's what I'm looking at.

1969
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:32,240
Yeah.

1970
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:33,899
But again, this is a free sort of

1971
01:08:33,899 --> 01:08:34,100
thing.

1972
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,240
Like I do this with out of goodwill,

1973
01:08:36,279 --> 01:08:36,600
basically.

1974
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:37,819
So I have to kind of limit the

1975
01:08:37,819 --> 01:08:37,979
time.

1976
01:08:38,100 --> 01:08:40,180
There's a lot of management that actually is

1977
01:08:40,180 --> 01:08:40,660
involved.

1978
01:08:40,939 --> 01:08:43,479
So like yesterday or two days ago, like

1979
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:47,180
every year, La Liga, which is the Spanish

1980
01:08:47,180 --> 01:08:48,460
football sort of a.

1981
01:08:48,620 --> 01:08:49,060
Yeah.

1982
01:08:49,300 --> 01:08:49,740
League.

1983
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:50,300
Yep.

1984
01:08:50,620 --> 01:08:52,960
They have these insane blocks, so they will

1985
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:57,560
go to the orange and like all of

1986
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:00,760
the Wi-Fi mobile providers in Spain and

1987
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:03,300
be like, block these IPs during this time

1988
01:09:03,300 --> 01:09:03,660
period.

1989
01:09:03,700 --> 01:09:04,000
Wow.

1990
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:05,460
When the football matches are live.

1991
01:09:06,140 --> 01:09:07,680
And now a lot of people run stuff

1992
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,819
on these, you know, cloud services like Azure

1993
01:09:10,819 --> 01:09:11,520
and CloudFlare.

1994
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:13,680
So they can pirate the signal and get

1995
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:14,140
it anyway.

1996
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:15,140
Yeah.

1997
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:16,640
So all of these sites will like, you

1998
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:18,740
know, stand up a quick CloudFlare thing to

1999
01:09:18,740 --> 01:09:20,960
do so that they are legitimate things that

2000
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:21,540
need to be blocked.

2001
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,240
But unfortunately, these IPs are shared.

2002
01:09:23,620 --> 01:09:23,760
Yeah.

2003
01:09:23,779 --> 01:09:25,380
So every time these blocks go into a

2004
01:09:25,380 --> 01:09:27,479
they do a network block and you're out.

2005
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,180
GitHub goes down and GitHub uses CloudFlare for

2006
01:09:30,180 --> 01:09:30,340
this.

2007
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:33,180
And unfortunately, OP3 sometimes is hit by this.

2008
01:09:33,380 --> 01:09:36,260
So and every I get emails every every

2009
01:09:36,260 --> 01:09:37,920
year at about this time, like, oh, it's

2010
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:38,600
La Liga time.

2011
01:09:39,020 --> 01:09:40,560
And this actually CloudFlare is taking them to

2012
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:41,520
court in Spain.

2013
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:43,300
So it's a little better this year.

2014
01:09:43,500 --> 01:09:44,880
But anyways, I had to do a fire

2015
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,000
drill a few days ago and upgrade.

2016
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,420
I'm paying a little bit more now to

2017
01:09:49,420 --> 01:09:51,819
get into a different pool of IPs that

2018
01:09:51,819 --> 01:09:53,260
I think right now will will escape.

2019
01:09:53,340 --> 01:09:54,240
But it's really hit or miss.

2020
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,540
CloudFlare was telling me that some of their

2021
01:09:56,540 --> 01:09:58,560
enterprise customers are affected, right?

2022
01:09:58,580 --> 01:10:00,240
They can't do anything about it, basically.

2023
01:10:00,540 --> 01:10:03,380
So it's really a region by region thing.

2024
01:10:03,540 --> 01:10:05,040
But anyways, that sort of stuff comes up.

2025
01:10:05,180 --> 01:10:07,440
But I spend, you know, a little bit

2026
01:10:07,440 --> 01:10:09,180
every day making sure that new shows are

2027
01:10:09,180 --> 01:10:10,940
onboarded and spam is taken out and that

2028
01:10:10,940 --> 01:10:11,360
sort of thing.

2029
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,140
So it's but I really I love this

2030
01:10:14,140 --> 01:10:15,980
idea, right, that anyone can have stats.

2031
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:17,280
It's not something that you need to pay

2032
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:18,160
through the nose for.

2033
01:10:18,340 --> 01:10:20,620
And it's something I would use that's like

2034
01:10:20,620 --> 01:10:23,340
not going to sacrifice listener privacy, which is

2035
01:10:23,340 --> 01:10:25,040
actually a tough tradeoff.

2036
01:10:25,140 --> 01:10:26,480
And really, no one in their right mind

2037
01:10:26,480 --> 01:10:27,180
should do it.

2038
01:10:27,380 --> 01:10:29,760
But I could like I could kind of

2039
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:31,880
see, you know, being a tech person, I

2040
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:32,940
can see how to put that together.

2041
01:10:33,140 --> 01:10:34,760
So what are you doing these days, John?

2042
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:35,620
What's the big plan?

2043
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:37,340
What do you what do you I'm sure

2044
01:10:37,340 --> 01:10:38,920
it's all secret because, you know, you're still

2045
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:40,280
a Silicon Valley kind of guy.

2046
01:10:40,440 --> 01:10:42,380
But we have an NDA for the whole

2047
01:10:42,380 --> 01:10:42,860
boardroom.

2048
01:10:42,860 --> 01:10:44,020
So you can feel free to talk.

2049
01:10:44,260 --> 01:10:44,620
We're good.

2050
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:44,980
We're good.

2051
01:10:45,020 --> 01:10:45,240
We're good.

2052
01:10:45,540 --> 01:10:47,100
I am not a Silicon Valley type of

2053
01:10:47,100 --> 01:10:47,440
guy.

2054
01:10:47,940 --> 01:10:49,480
I just had to slip it in.

2055
01:10:50,380 --> 01:10:51,300
What are you working for?

2056
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:52,680
Google in Cambridge.

2057
01:10:53,020 --> 01:10:54,180
So that was definitely not Silicon Valley.

2058
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:54,700
That's true.

2059
01:10:54,940 --> 01:10:55,420
That's true.

2060
01:10:57,360 --> 01:10:58,820
Well, I've been working on a podcast app

2061
01:10:58,820 --> 01:10:59,520
for a while.

2062
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:03,320
And I'm a you know, I work for

2063
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:04,420
Android on Google.

2064
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:05,180
And I love it.

2065
01:11:05,220 --> 01:11:07,240
You know, I think obviously most people listen

2066
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:10,020
and and watch podcasts on their phone, on

2067
01:11:10,020 --> 01:11:10,680
their mobile devices.

2068
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:13,200
So, you know, I've been working on an

2069
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:13,460
app.

2070
01:11:14,340 --> 01:11:17,320
I don't want to ideally compete with all

2071
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:18,480
the other cool apps that are out there.

2072
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:18,620
Right.

2073
01:11:18,660 --> 01:11:20,000
So I don't want to be another like,

2074
01:11:20,540 --> 01:11:22,340
hey, this is overcast, but a little bit

2075
01:11:22,340 --> 01:11:24,020
better and doesn't crash and doesn't look horrible.

2076
01:11:24,220 --> 01:11:25,860
You know, it's like, yes, the world probably

2077
01:11:25,860 --> 01:11:26,540
needs one of those.

2078
01:11:26,620 --> 01:11:28,300
But I would hate to take away share

2079
01:11:28,300 --> 01:11:30,240
from those sorts of apps.

2080
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:30,580
Right.

2081
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,220
And so it's like I don't.

2082
01:11:33,380 --> 01:11:34,120
Yes, I could do that.

2083
01:11:34,140 --> 01:11:35,320
And I have actually an app that I

2084
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:36,460
use that kind of does that.

2085
01:11:36,460 --> 01:11:38,080
But I kind of wanted to take a

2086
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:40,740
step back and say, like, what could a

2087
01:11:40,740 --> 01:11:41,760
podcast app look like?

2088
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:41,960
Right.

2089
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:43,740
So this is like podcast app from the

2090
01:11:43,740 --> 01:11:44,780
future kind of thing.

2091
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:46,740
And I did I do think I hit

2092
01:11:46,740 --> 01:11:50,160
on something that there's one thing that I,

2093
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:52,340
again, ideally, like we just take stuff away

2094
01:11:52,340 --> 01:11:54,860
from YouTube and Spotify and not from the

2095
01:11:54,860 --> 01:11:55,120
others.

2096
01:11:55,260 --> 01:11:57,020
I did think I think I hit on

2097
01:11:57,020 --> 01:11:58,820
one thing that I could do as the

2098
01:11:58,820 --> 01:12:01,760
first like major feature of the app that

2099
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:03,180
both of those do that no one else

2100
01:12:03,180 --> 01:12:03,460
does.

2101
01:12:03,500 --> 01:12:04,600
And then it kind of like is in

2102
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:05,340
its own space.

2103
01:12:05,500 --> 01:12:05,900
Cool.

2104
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:07,900
So I'm hoping to get it out this

2105
01:12:07,900 --> 01:12:09,600
year because, you know, they have the new

2106
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,640
new OS cadence.

2107
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:13,560
Yeah, I think it's coming.

2108
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:15,660
The new phones are being announced on the

2109
01:12:15,660 --> 01:12:17,940
9th of September, but I probably won't be

2110
01:12:17,940 --> 01:12:18,560
ready for that.

2111
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:20,520
But it's going to be it's going to

2112
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:21,240
be a weird app.

2113
01:12:21,260 --> 01:12:22,280
Let's just put it that way.

2114
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:23,620
You know me.

2115
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:25,880
I like I like different weird apps with

2116
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:26,340
an attitude.

2117
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:27,740
That's what I've been waiting for.

2118
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:29,220
So I anticipate that.

2119
01:12:29,480 --> 01:12:31,120
Let me ask you, since you did work

2120
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:32,220
on the Android side.

2121
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:34,880
Any insight?

2122
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:39,760
I'm very, very sad, actually, because apparently Google

2123
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:43,960
will no longer be supporting the AOSP hooks

2124
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,000
on their pixel phones, which means graphene OS

2125
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:48,600
is pretty much going to die.

2126
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:51,820
From what I understand, I was already having

2127
01:12:51,820 --> 01:12:54,520
all kinds of problems texting people.

2128
01:12:54,820 --> 01:12:55,300
Yeah.

2129
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:56,540
You got a real phone, brother.

2130
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:56,960
I do.

2131
01:12:57,040 --> 01:12:59,920
I had to get an actual phone, which

2132
01:12:59,920 --> 01:13:00,300
sucks.

2133
01:13:01,140 --> 01:13:01,440
Yeah.

2134
01:13:01,440 --> 01:13:04,080
I mean, it's open source in theory, right?

2135
01:13:04,100 --> 01:13:06,040
Android, but it's kind of like backwards open

2136
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:06,360
source.

2137
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:08,860
So all the development is done internally at

2138
01:13:08,860 --> 01:13:09,120
Google.

2139
01:13:09,220 --> 01:13:12,260
Then every year they poop out, oh, here

2140
01:13:12,260 --> 01:13:12,640
it is.

2141
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:13,180
Boom here.

2142
01:13:13,260 --> 01:13:15,040
And like they have an issue tracker.

2143
01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:19,780
But as I'm sure you know, like it's

2144
01:13:19,780 --> 01:13:20,740
the same sort of thing anywhere.

2145
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:23,400
Like there's actually very few developers working on

2146
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:23,660
Android.

2147
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:25,360
And so they just are hit with this

2148
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:27,040
fire hose of like, this doesn't work.

2149
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:27,600
This doesn't work.

2150
01:13:27,780 --> 01:13:30,780
And so the the feedback from the AOSP

2151
01:13:30,780 --> 01:13:31,100
stuff.

2152
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:32,660
I mean, that's the last on the list,

2153
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:32,880
right?

2154
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:33,140
Yeah.

2155
01:13:33,140 --> 01:13:34,520
Unless it comes from a partner or that

2156
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:35,040
sort of thing.

2157
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:37,300
So it's a very difficult position to to

2158
01:13:37,300 --> 01:13:37,900
do all of this.

2159
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:41,120
And again, they do this out of their,

2160
01:13:41,220 --> 01:13:42,880
you know, those the goodness of their heart

2161
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:43,400
or services.

2162
01:13:43,620 --> 01:13:43,840
Yes.

2163
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:44,980
Well, no, I mean, but it's sort of

2164
01:13:44,980 --> 01:13:45,260
funded.

2165
01:13:45,580 --> 01:13:46,940
No one could do this if they didn't

2166
01:13:46,940 --> 01:13:48,740
have alternate sources.

2167
01:13:48,740 --> 01:13:49,020
Right.

2168
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:50,200
So it's sort of like they're in a

2169
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:50,760
weird position.

2170
01:13:50,900 --> 01:13:52,440
Well, I've gone full in on the Borg,

2171
01:13:52,500 --> 01:13:52,760
man.

2172
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,800
I'm on a Galaxy Z seven flip.

2173
01:13:58,280 --> 01:13:58,900
Oh, really?

2174
01:13:58,940 --> 01:13:59,780
I thought you meant Apple.

2175
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:00,040
All right.

2176
01:14:00,100 --> 01:14:02,000
Once we know, no, no, no, no, I,

2177
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,360
I, I will not go to Apple.

2178
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:05,520
Nope, nope, nope, nope.

2179
01:14:05,580 --> 01:14:06,000
It's funny.

2180
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:07,720
Like, as soon as I quit Google, I

2181
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:09,420
got an Apple phone and just to kind

2182
01:14:09,420 --> 01:14:10,780
of get familiar with that ecosystem.

2183
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:12,580
So I've been on Apple ever since.

2184
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:15,480
I like their I like their world.

2185
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:16,820
I like their nice, comfortable world.

2186
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,800
But well, enjoy that.

2187
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:21,500
You need you need to have both.

2188
01:14:21,580 --> 01:14:23,100
You need to have both, especially for one

2189
01:14:23,100 --> 01:14:23,240
thing.

2190
01:14:23,380 --> 01:14:24,900
Don't you have to have like an Apple

2191
01:14:24,900 --> 01:14:25,720
device for testing?

2192
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:28,000
Well, that's what Dave and Paul have.

2193
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:30,900
We're for Tina.

2194
01:14:30,900 --> 01:14:33,440
Tina has a Apple and I'm constantly saying,

2195
01:14:33,740 --> 01:14:35,160
hey, babe, can I just install it?

2196
01:14:35,220 --> 01:14:36,740
Let me just put test flight on.

2197
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:38,040
She's like, what are you doing to my

2198
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:38,600
phone?

2199
01:14:38,980 --> 01:14:39,600
Yeah, don't worry.

2200
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:40,120
It'll be fun.

2201
01:14:40,180 --> 01:14:41,280
Let me just kind of just put this

2202
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:41,480
in your.

2203
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:42,980
Can I just test out your car, play

2204
01:14:42,980 --> 01:14:43,860
in your car for a second?

2205
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:45,040
I'm sitting in the garage.

2206
01:14:45,300 --> 01:14:47,100
She's like, you should you should at least

2207
01:14:47,100 --> 01:14:49,020
open the garage door when you have the

2208
01:14:49,020 --> 01:14:49,700
engine running.

2209
01:14:49,740 --> 01:14:50,500
You're going to die.

2210
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:52,700
Tragedy struck today.

2211
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:57,600
Podfather down to testing, beta testing a podcast,

2212
01:14:57,600 --> 01:14:58,600
died in the car.

2213
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:00,540
The car play will kill you, though, so

2214
01:15:00,540 --> 01:15:01,500
I can confirm that.

2215
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:06,080
The the thing about Android, though, is that

2216
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:07,420
I was talking to Alex about this the

2217
01:15:07,420 --> 01:15:11,260
other day is that Android is has way

2218
01:15:11,260 --> 01:15:16,280
more like weird restrictions and bugs than iOS.

2219
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:16,820
Goodness.

2220
01:15:16,860 --> 01:15:17,700
Yes, it does.

2221
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:19,780
Well, just think about the position that they're

2222
01:15:19,780 --> 01:15:20,200
in, right?

2223
01:15:20,220 --> 01:15:21,760
Like Apple has they can work.

2224
01:15:21,780 --> 01:15:23,400
They can go knock on the door of

2225
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:25,320
their hardware team and be like, yeah, this

2226
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:26,020
isn't working.

2227
01:15:26,020 --> 01:15:27,660
Yeah, they got one house.

2228
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,320
Yes, they have their like pixel devices, and

2229
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:31,300
those are actually fairly new.

2230
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:32,860
Like they used to have the Nexus devices.

2231
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:34,940
And so those would actually work very well.

2232
01:15:35,500 --> 01:15:37,600
But and, you know, they you know, they

2233
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,100
have they talk with Samsung and that sort

2234
01:15:39,100 --> 01:15:39,380
of thing.

2235
01:15:39,460 --> 01:15:42,360
But it's hard to make that is, I

2236
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:43,720
don't know, as bug free as possible.

2237
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:44,140
I got it.

2238
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:44,600
It's just this.

2239
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:45,520
Sorry.

2240
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:46,820
Yeah, go ahead.

2241
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:48,460
I was going to say the amount of

2242
01:15:48,460 --> 01:15:50,760
crap you go through with a brand new

2243
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:54,440
Android phone, the amount of I mean, you've

2244
01:15:54,440 --> 01:15:56,560
got T-Mobile installing stuff.

2245
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:00,620
You've got a Galaxy, Samsung installing all kinds

2246
01:16:00,620 --> 01:16:01,160
of stuff.

2247
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:05,140
Now I'm using a vault warden, bit warden,

2248
01:16:05,940 --> 01:16:08,920
password manager, and every single time I don't

2249
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:10,420
you want to use the don't you want

2250
01:16:10,420 --> 01:16:11,940
to use the Galaxy password manager?

2251
01:16:12,100 --> 01:16:13,960
You know, even though you've clearly said, no,

2252
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:15,080
this is what I want.

2253
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:15,940
I want to use this.

2254
01:16:15,980 --> 01:16:17,220
They keep popping it up.

2255
01:16:17,540 --> 01:16:20,440
Now, just all and then and also Gemini.

2256
01:16:20,440 --> 01:16:22,280
Hello, I'm Gemini.

2257
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:24,880
I can fix your email like, no, go

2258
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:25,240
away.

2259
01:16:25,260 --> 01:16:27,420
And it just keeps coming back like bad

2260
01:16:27,420 --> 01:16:28,280
Mexican food.

2261
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:31,160
You know, it's just, oh, no, it's just

2262
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:31,960
like TVs, right?

2263
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:33,500
They're not making any money off the device.

2264
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:35,560
It's all about the upsells after the fact.

2265
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:36,900
Yeah, like at least they're not upselling you

2266
01:16:36,900 --> 01:16:37,500
on podcasts.

2267
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:39,300
They used to also Samsung also used to

2268
01:16:39,300 --> 01:16:41,380
have a podcast thing where they say free

2269
01:16:41,380 --> 01:16:42,120
podcast.

2270
01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:43,500
Yeah, that's gone.

2271
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:45,020
At least you're.

2272
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:46,640
And it's actually interesting.

2273
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:49,820
It's a great opportunity for Android podcast apps,

2274
01:16:49,860 --> 01:16:50,040
right?

2275
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:53,380
There's really no equivalent of, you know, and

2276
01:16:53,380 --> 01:16:55,200
this is why YouTube is really taken off

2277
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:57,140
is like that's always on the device.

2278
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:57,520
Yeah.

2279
01:16:57,740 --> 01:16:58,320
Every device.

2280
01:16:58,460 --> 01:16:58,580
Yeah.

2281
01:16:58,580 --> 01:16:58,740
Right.

2282
01:16:58,880 --> 01:16:59,040
Yeah.

2283
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:03,600
Now that dog catchers died, we there's nothing

2284
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:03,960
left.

2285
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:05,500
Dog catcher was what?

2286
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:06,600
Who was it, Dave?

2287
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:08,600
Early on, dog catcher.

2288
01:17:09,020 --> 01:17:11,520
If I recall correctly, we killed we broke.

2289
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:12,420
We killed it.

2290
01:17:12,540 --> 01:17:13,000
Broke down.

2291
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:15,000
We broke dog catcher because it did not

2292
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:16,420
handle namespace.

2293
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:17,420
Yeah, exactly.

2294
01:17:17,420 --> 01:17:20,000
We don't get this namespace and we'll correct.

2295
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:21,440
No, it was it was it was a

2296
01:17:21,440 --> 01:17:23,160
very specific thing.

2297
01:17:23,260 --> 01:17:25,180
What I think it was transcripts was live.

2298
01:17:25,420 --> 01:17:26,900
And it was the live item tag.

2299
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:27,760
Yeah, you're right.

2300
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:28,280
You're right.

2301
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:29,980
You threw the live item.

2302
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:31,940
If if you throw a live item tag

2303
01:17:31,940 --> 01:17:34,100
in a channel, dog catcher just like barfed

2304
01:17:34,100 --> 01:17:35,520
its guts out and died.

2305
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:37,480
And it was and it was really sad.

2306
01:17:37,820 --> 01:17:40,500
It was sad because because, you know, people

2307
01:17:40,500 --> 01:17:42,720
would email the developer and the developer would

2308
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,820
email back and then copy me and say,

2309
01:17:45,820 --> 01:17:48,320
these guys are doing it wrong.

2310
01:17:49,420 --> 01:17:49,900
Oh, really?

2311
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:50,620
You got that email?

2312
01:17:50,700 --> 01:17:51,980
Oh, I got several of them.

2313
01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:54,000
Yeah, that's that's the publisher.

2314
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:55,320
Their feet is broken.

2315
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:56,720
Like, oh, OK.

2316
01:17:57,040 --> 01:17:57,560
All right.

2317
01:17:58,320 --> 01:17:59,780
You can always have a soft spot in

2318
01:17:59,780 --> 01:18:00,860
my heart for dog catcher, though.

2319
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,440
It's I got Android on day one and

2320
01:18:03,440 --> 01:18:05,340
they actually had a listen.

2321
01:18:05,440 --> 01:18:06,140
They called it listen.

2322
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:07,960
I think it was part of the operating

2323
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:08,900
system back in the day.

2324
01:18:08,980 --> 01:18:10,840
It was a great podcast player that shipped

2325
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:13,900
with the old, really old looking Android day

2326
01:18:13,900 --> 01:18:14,360
one.

2327
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:16,500
And then they went through all sort of,

2328
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:19,220
you know, they had Google Music, Google Podcasts.

2329
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:21,040
But it was just some, you know, someone

2330
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:22,900
on the team really like listening to podcasts.

2331
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:23,940
And I was like, hey, this is great.

2332
01:18:24,020 --> 01:18:24,760
Like, let's do this.

2333
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:27,340
As I always say, as I always say,

2334
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:29,600
it's always someone on the team down below

2335
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:31,120
who's like, what is this thing?

2336
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:32,740
Maybe I can add that in there.

2337
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:34,240
I can just put this in here.

2338
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:37,180
That's a keep publishing people keep publishing.

2339
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:38,700
There's your show title.

2340
01:18:38,780 --> 01:18:39,360
Keep publishing.

2341
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:42,320
Yeah, I'm looking for dog catcher on that

2342
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:43,240
place.

2343
01:18:43,340 --> 01:18:44,080
Play Store.

2344
01:18:44,220 --> 01:18:45,640
And it's it's a gets a goner.

2345
01:18:45,940 --> 01:18:46,300
Yeah.

2346
01:18:46,460 --> 01:18:46,560
Yeah.

2347
01:18:46,620 --> 01:18:47,560
No, it's still there.

2348
01:18:47,660 --> 01:18:50,000
I listen to Libsyn to get their stats

2349
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:51,520
and it has, you know, about the same

2350
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:53,320
number as Podverse, that sort of thing.

2351
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:54,840
It's like they're always like neck and neck.

2352
01:18:54,860 --> 01:18:55,920
And I was like, who's going to win

2353
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:56,140
this?

2354
01:18:56,340 --> 01:18:56,580
Really?

2355
01:18:56,740 --> 01:18:56,900
Yep.

2356
01:18:57,140 --> 01:18:57,320
Yep.

2357
01:18:57,400 --> 01:18:59,380
Because Podverse is my number two app for

2358
01:18:59,380 --> 01:18:59,960
no agenda.

2359
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:02,860
Well, this is a cross on Libsyn shows,

2360
01:19:02,940 --> 01:19:05,140
so it's probably a sense of like, I

2361
01:19:05,140 --> 01:19:05,960
guess, and stuff.

2362
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:08,340
But yeah, it's not on the Play Store.

2363
01:19:08,500 --> 01:19:09,360
It's not on the Play Store.

2364
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:11,360
You must be people must be sideloading it

2365
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:11,900
or something.

2366
01:19:11,900 --> 01:19:13,620
I don't know what that is.

2367
01:19:13,820 --> 01:19:15,040
Or there's not update right?

2368
01:19:15,060 --> 01:19:16,220
Android doesn't update.

2369
01:19:16,620 --> 01:19:16,720
So.

2370
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:18,120
Huh.

2371
01:19:18,740 --> 01:19:21,100
This yeah, there's no there's you you can't

2372
01:19:21,100 --> 01:19:21,440
find it.

2373
01:19:21,480 --> 01:19:24,600
There must be like that would be an

2374
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:29,400
interesting investigative reporting is to go and find

2375
01:19:29,400 --> 01:19:32,060
where these dog catcher downloads from Libsyn are

2376
01:19:32,060 --> 01:19:32,680
coming from.

2377
01:19:33,220 --> 01:19:35,760
How how are people downloading with dog catcher

2378
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:37,420
when dog catcher hasn't existed on the Play

2379
01:19:37,420 --> 01:19:38,460
Store for three years?

2380
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:39,280
Phantom.

2381
01:19:40,220 --> 01:19:40,580
Yeah.

2382
01:19:40,580 --> 01:19:41,580
I see some of those three.

2383
01:19:41,700 --> 01:19:42,460
So I'll do that.

2384
01:19:42,500 --> 01:19:43,160
Also, we'll see.

2385
01:19:43,340 --> 01:19:44,280
We'll see where they're coming from.

2386
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:45,580
We need to track these people down.

2387
01:19:45,740 --> 01:19:47,560
I used to I remember when I had

2388
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:52,300
my very first Android phone and I'm trying

2389
01:19:52,300 --> 01:19:54,160
to remember what I think it was.

2390
01:19:55,500 --> 01:19:57,140
Man, I can't remember what what phone that

2391
01:19:57,140 --> 01:20:00,620
was, but yeah, I had dog catcher and

2392
01:20:00,620 --> 01:20:02,740
it would immediately fill up the internal storage.

2393
01:20:02,820 --> 01:20:03,900
So I had to put an SD card

2394
01:20:03,900 --> 01:20:05,600
in it specifically for dog catcher.

2395
01:20:07,460 --> 01:20:08,580
Good times, baby.

2396
01:20:08,660 --> 01:20:09,420
Good times.

2397
01:20:09,420 --> 01:20:10,480
Very good times.

2398
01:20:10,900 --> 01:20:12,440
Hey, we're speaking of time.

2399
01:20:12,540 --> 01:20:13,480
We're at one twenty.

2400
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:14,940
So, Dave, I don't know what your day

2401
01:20:14,940 --> 01:20:15,700
looks like.

2402
01:20:15,980 --> 01:20:18,320
I got a yeah, I got a hard

2403
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:20,080
out pretty quick because I've got to.

2404
01:20:20,440 --> 01:20:22,120
Did you get the power back on at

2405
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:22,620
the office?

2406
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:25,580
Yeah, that's yeah, that was resolved.

2407
01:20:25,780 --> 01:20:28,040
Man, Transformer blew up right next to the

2408
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:28,180
office.

2409
01:20:28,440 --> 01:20:30,360
And that's that's like the third time since

2410
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:31,080
I've known you.

2411
01:20:31,460 --> 01:20:35,040
We're on an old like we're in an

2412
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:39,720
office park area that was built like in

2413
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:40,420
the 70s.

2414
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:43,680
And all the buildings themselves have been refurbished

2415
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:45,260
and are all very new and nice.

2416
01:20:45,440 --> 01:20:48,780
But the actual infrastructure for like.

2417
01:20:48,980 --> 01:20:51,200
So here's so here's something funny.

2418
01:20:51,340 --> 01:20:55,140
Like when our when our firm moved into

2419
01:20:55,140 --> 01:20:59,260
this building, the this building had sat empty

2420
01:20:59,260 --> 01:21:01,120
for quite a few years and it used

2421
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:01,900
to be a bank.

2422
01:21:02,450 --> 01:21:05,520
And so then there was fiber coming through

2423
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:06,300
that area.

2424
01:21:08,100 --> 01:21:12,560
And unbeknownst to all the contractors and everybody

2425
01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:16,060
who was working on renovating that building for

2426
01:21:16,060 --> 01:21:19,920
us to move into there, the fiber that

2427
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:22,700
served all of the offices around that area

2428
01:21:22,700 --> 01:21:25,280
went through this one vacant building.

2429
01:21:25,780 --> 01:21:27,860
There was it was like a loop that

2430
01:21:27,860 --> 01:21:29,020
went through this building.

2431
01:21:29,020 --> 01:21:31,440
And so when the when the contractors came

2432
01:21:31,440 --> 01:21:33,360
in, they just saw all this all this

2433
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:35,680
fiber and wiring hanging out of the wall

2434
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:37,300
and they just ripped it all out.

2435
01:21:37,500 --> 01:21:39,000
And as soon as they as soon as

2436
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:41,040
they cut it, boom, everybody was down for

2437
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:42,200
like blocks.

2438
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:45,780
So the fiber had been running through this

2439
01:21:45,780 --> 01:21:48,020
building and serving this wide area for so

2440
01:21:48,020 --> 01:21:48,320
long.

2441
01:21:48,340 --> 01:21:49,420
And it was this huge ordeal.

2442
01:21:49,460 --> 01:21:51,020
I mean, those didn't have anything to do

2443
01:21:51,020 --> 01:21:54,060
with us, but it's just this old infrastructure.

2444
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:55,600
So there are a lot of the electrical

2445
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:59,160
in that, you know, is like run underground

2446
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:01,500
and so there's like, you know, some of

2447
01:22:01,500 --> 01:22:02,600
it's rotten and stuff.

2448
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:05,060
Anyway, as we learned, as we learned with

2449
01:22:05,060 --> 01:22:08,560
the Godcaster app, a lot of people buy

2450
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:11,600
competitors names in the app store.

2451
01:22:12,060 --> 01:22:12,720
Oh, yeah.

2452
01:22:12,820 --> 01:22:13,020
Yeah.

2453
01:22:13,260 --> 01:22:17,400
So guess who's bought sponsorship on dog catcher?

2454
01:22:18,580 --> 01:22:19,440
Oh, who?

2455
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:20,840
Cast box.

2456
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:24,600
Why not?

2457
01:22:24,860 --> 01:22:25,580
Why not?

2458
01:22:25,740 --> 01:22:27,900
You picking up the dog catcher people?

2459
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:28,260
Yeah.

2460
01:22:29,340 --> 01:22:31,060
You spend some money on that.

2461
01:22:31,500 --> 01:22:33,080
No, but I got the kid, the kiln

2462
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:33,960
guys coming.

2463
01:22:34,980 --> 01:22:36,700
So we have a kiln.

2464
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:38,820
My wife, you know, she's an artist.

2465
01:22:38,980 --> 01:22:40,720
She does pottery and stuff.

2466
01:22:40,900 --> 01:22:41,020
Yeah.

2467
01:22:41,020 --> 01:22:42,080
That's what she's telling you.

2468
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:43,860
Who knows what she's doing in that kiln?

2469
01:22:45,780 --> 01:22:47,740
I'm just drying out the weed, Dave.

2470
01:22:47,780 --> 01:22:48,600
Don't worry about it.

2471
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:48,980
It's OK.

2472
01:22:49,240 --> 01:22:49,780
It's all good.

2473
01:22:51,300 --> 01:22:53,000
Yeah, we got a we got that guy

2474
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:53,480
coming soon.

2475
01:22:53,540 --> 01:22:54,120
So I got a bail.

2476
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:54,760
All right.

2477
01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:57,020
Let us thank a few people.

2478
01:22:57,020 --> 01:22:58,280
John, hang around if you can.

2479
01:22:58,500 --> 01:23:01,360
Be nice, because we did get some boost

2480
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:02,100
during the show.

2481
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:05,640
We got Martin Linda's Coke, who always for

2482
01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:07,020
some reason boosts twice.

2483
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,620
Amazing always is 1776.

2484
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:13,300
He says the long tail of indie podcasters,

2485
01:23:13,420 --> 01:23:14,220
freedom of expression.

2486
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:15,820
Go podcasting, Adam.

2487
01:23:16,100 --> 01:23:18,160
Thanks for sharing your experience from the conference.

2488
01:23:18,220 --> 01:23:20,600
I like the debates between you, Dave, and

2489
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:22,020
your guest, John Spurlock.

2490
01:23:22,460 --> 01:23:24,460
I'm not good looking, but maybe I will

2491
01:23:24,460 --> 01:23:26,520
start a video show doing a Western style

2492
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:27,540
tea ceremony.

2493
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:29,400
But I'd watch that.

2494
01:23:29,900 --> 01:23:30,380
All the best.

2495
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:34,720
Martin, author of a tea book, sketches, ideas

2496
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:37,220
and notions about the second most popular beverage

2497
01:23:37,220 --> 01:23:37,940
in the world.

2498
01:23:38,480 --> 01:23:40,720
P.S. Ombudsman is a Swedish word.

2499
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:41,380
OK.

2500
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:46,320
Triple five from Salty Crayon, which is a

2501
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:47,000
swan boost.

2502
01:23:47,420 --> 01:23:49,280
Audio is king and so is key sent.

2503
01:23:49,480 --> 01:23:50,740
Go podcasting.

2504
01:23:50,740 --> 01:23:54,340
Yeah, Sam Sethi checks in with seven, seven,

2505
01:23:54,580 --> 01:23:54,800
seven.

2506
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:56,100
And wouldn't you know it?

2507
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,260
True fan supports peer to HLS via the

2508
01:23:59,260 --> 01:23:59,920
Alt enclosure.

2509
01:24:00,060 --> 01:24:00,840
Here's an example.

2510
01:24:01,700 --> 01:24:02,640
Yes, of course.

2511
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:03,580
Of course it does.

2512
01:24:04,020 --> 01:24:06,700
That's Sam is whatever we talk about.

2513
01:24:06,820 --> 01:24:07,580
Sam implements.

2514
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:09,180
I love that.

2515
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:11,780
Anonymous was triple eights.

2516
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:14,160
We've got Eric PP with three, three, three

2517
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:15,080
with a pew pew.

2518
01:24:15,820 --> 01:24:17,380
Dreb Scott, one, two, three, four with a

2519
01:24:17,380 --> 01:24:18,200
pre-show boost.

2520
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:21,020
And T.J. the raffle with triple seven.

2521
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:22,660
And I hit the delimiter.

2522
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:26,860
See, we get these are not sorted.

2523
01:24:26,980 --> 01:24:28,200
So I'm going to go through here.

2524
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:30,140
So we got Jesse Anderson.

2525
01:24:30,440 --> 01:24:33,420
This is a paper, some PayPal's Jesse, Jesse

2526
01:24:33,420 --> 01:24:34,700
Anderson, 15 bucks.

2527
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:35,500
That's a one off.

2528
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:36,080
Thank you, Jesse.

2529
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:36,760
Appreciate it.

2530
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:37,880
And there's no note on that.

2531
01:24:38,440 --> 01:24:40,580
But Silicon Florist, 10 bucks.

2532
01:24:40,620 --> 01:24:41,620
Thank you, Silicon Florist.

2533
01:24:41,940 --> 01:24:43,380
Timothy Voice, ten dollars.

2534
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:45,660
Oh, look at this.

2535
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:48,700
The boys from Buzzsprout, one thousand dollars.

2536
01:24:48,900 --> 01:24:49,600
Holy moly!

2537
01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:50,340
Bam!

2538
01:24:50,380 --> 01:24:53,700
Shot caller, 20 inch blades on the Impala.

2539
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:55,300
Keeping it alive, boys.

2540
01:24:55,440 --> 01:24:56,500
Thank you so much.

2541
01:24:56,780 --> 01:25:00,540
Thank between Buzzsprout, RSS.com, Blueberry.

2542
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:03,520
You guys really, really make a difference.

2543
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:04,080
Fountain.

2544
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:04,500
Yes.

2545
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:05,720
Appreciate you.

2546
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:07,760
Appreciate you all so much.

2547
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:10,360
Thank you, Buzzsprout.

2548
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:12,880
Did you talk to Kevin and Tom?

2549
01:25:13,020 --> 01:25:13,240
How are they?

2550
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:14,800
Briefly, briefly.

2551
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:17,540
I really didn't have the time I wanted

2552
01:25:17,540 --> 01:25:18,260
to spend with him.

2553
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:19,800
It was I mean, it was insane.

2554
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:20,900
It's insane, the old man.

2555
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:23,020
Like everyone's pulling at me, you know, like,

2556
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:23,740
oh, come over here.

2557
01:25:24,100 --> 01:25:26,580
Let me take a selfie, selfie, selfie.

2558
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:28,860
We're going to do a selfie, selfie.

2559
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:31,700
Oystein Berra, five bucks.

2560
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:33,860
Michael Goggin, five bucks.

2561
01:25:34,020 --> 01:25:34,500
Thank you, Michael.

2562
01:25:35,100 --> 01:25:36,520
Christopher Reamer, ten dollars.

2563
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:38,540
James Sullivan, ten dollars.

2564
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:40,160
Cone Glotzbach, five bucks.

2565
01:25:40,740 --> 01:25:42,020
And that's that's our PayPal.

2566
01:25:42,300 --> 01:25:43,500
Thank you all very much.

2567
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:44,920
Thank you.

2568
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:47,760
We need to have Tom and Kevin back

2569
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:48,020
on.

2570
01:25:48,180 --> 01:25:49,260
I don't even know what they're doing.

2571
01:25:49,580 --> 01:25:51,440
And I've completely lost track.

2572
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:52,120
You know, you know what?

2573
01:25:52,580 --> 01:25:54,840
In the PSP circle.

2574
01:25:55,940 --> 01:25:57,780
They were all that, you know, like, well,

2575
01:25:57,800 --> 01:25:58,860
what are you guys going to do?

2576
01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:00,920
We're doing stuff.

2577
01:26:01,020 --> 01:26:03,100
They're very secretive, very secretive.

2578
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:05,680
We're we're we're doing stuff.

2579
01:26:06,060 --> 01:26:07,860
You know, don't don't love podcast.

2580
01:26:08,540 --> 01:26:08,980
Yeah.

2581
01:26:09,060 --> 01:26:10,180
Don't worry about us.

2582
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:11,260
We're doing stuff.

2583
01:26:11,260 --> 01:26:11,660
Sorry.

2584
01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:13,660
Just upload to our pod roll.

2585
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:15,000
Upload to our pod roll.

2586
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:17,480
Upload to our Buzzsprout Connect.

2587
01:26:18,980 --> 01:26:19,380
Yeah.

2588
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:22,140
By the way, wasn't there some fracas over

2589
01:26:22,140 --> 01:26:22,820
pod roll?

2590
01:26:23,940 --> 01:26:24,640
A fracas?

2591
01:26:25,100 --> 01:26:25,860
I don't know.

2592
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:26,020
Yeah.

2593
01:26:26,180 --> 01:26:26,360
Yeah.

2594
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:26,920
Here's what I think.

2595
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:28,080
If you want there to be, there is.

2596
01:26:28,300 --> 01:26:29,440
Here's what I think happened.

2597
01:26:29,580 --> 01:26:32,580
Not what I think happened is Lipson.

2598
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:35,040
I think they bought a company.

2599
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:37,520
No, they're just called Podroll.

2600
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:38,140
Yes.

2601
01:26:38,580 --> 01:26:41,440
So Podroll.fm was started in 2022.

2602
01:26:41,900 --> 01:26:43,480
I met the guy or the tech guy

2603
01:26:43,480 --> 01:26:44,460
that's part of it.

2604
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:46,560
He went to one of the conferences and

2605
01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:48,280
then that term was in the air.

2606
01:26:48,480 --> 01:26:50,500
And then Kevin, if you know, next month

2607
01:26:50,500 --> 01:26:52,100
was like, hey, I have this great idea

2608
01:26:52,100 --> 01:26:54,240
called, you know, for a new tag called

2609
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:54,640
Podroll.

2610
01:26:54,700 --> 01:26:55,560
It's a different idea.

2611
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:58,220
You know, Podroll.fm is kind of the

2612
01:26:58,220 --> 01:26:59,160
feed drop sort of thing.

2613
01:26:59,200 --> 01:27:00,700
It's like, we'll take over your RSS feed

2614
01:27:00,700 --> 01:27:01,260
and insert stuff.

2615
01:27:01,780 --> 01:27:03,140
So it's kind of a different concept.

2616
01:27:03,220 --> 01:27:04,380
But if you look at the Lipson, what

2617
01:27:04,380 --> 01:27:05,440
they did is what they are.

2618
01:27:05,500 --> 01:27:06,640
You know, they integrate, right?

2619
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:08,200
They don't develop, you know, do a lot

2620
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:08,680
of development.

2621
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:11,000
They integrate with and make the other person

2622
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:12,300
do the integration.

2623
01:27:13,740 --> 01:27:15,520
But that's that's basically what it is.

2624
01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:16,700
So they didn't acquire them.

2625
01:27:16,780 --> 01:27:18,820
They're just like making it easy for podcasters

2626
01:27:18,820 --> 01:27:21,780
to basically like integrate Podroll on Lipson.

2627
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:22,140
Right.

2628
01:27:22,300 --> 01:27:23,800
But the problem is.

2629
01:27:23,940 --> 01:27:25,800
It's got nothing to do with podcasting.

2630
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:26,300
Exactly.

2631
01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:28,620
It's a naming issue.

2632
01:27:28,860 --> 01:27:29,460
Yeah, that's what.

2633
01:27:29,500 --> 01:27:31,120
Oh, well, Lipson can say that they support

2634
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:31,780
Podroll now.

2635
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:33,100
Is that what we're saying?

2636
01:27:33,240 --> 01:27:34,780
But the craziness of this service.

2637
01:27:34,780 --> 01:27:35,960
I'll put them on the apps list.

2638
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:38,560
The craziness of this service is that you

2639
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:43,600
basically sell an episode in your feed to

2640
01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:44,540
somebody else.

2641
01:27:45,860 --> 01:27:48,400
Which this is a that's crazy.

2642
01:27:48,780 --> 01:27:51,340
When if I'm subscribed to a show and

2643
01:27:51,340 --> 01:27:54,520
somebody and somebody does a feed drop, I

2644
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:56,140
will unsubscribe from that show.

2645
01:27:56,540 --> 01:27:56,640
Yeah.

2646
01:27:57,240 --> 01:27:58,580
Yeah, of course.

2647
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:01,100
That is the that is the worst rude

2648
01:28:01,100 --> 01:28:02,000
thing.

2649
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:04,360
Like I used to I used to listen

2650
01:28:04,360 --> 01:28:07,580
to Club Random, the Bill Maher podcast all

2651
01:28:07,580 --> 01:28:07,920
the time.

2652
01:28:08,060 --> 01:28:08,220
Yeah.

2653
01:28:08,260 --> 01:28:10,720
And he started he started feed dropping some

2654
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:11,420
other show in there.

2655
01:28:11,480 --> 01:28:12,400
It happened like twice.

2656
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:12,940
Wow.

2657
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:13,480
And I was done.

2658
01:28:13,540 --> 01:28:14,280
I just unsubscribed.

2659
01:28:14,380 --> 01:28:16,220
I was like, no, I'm out of this.

2660
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:18,920
Unless they that just makes people mixing in

2661
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:20,920
like, OK, like, you know, they have the

2662
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:23,400
original podcaster mixing in like, oh, you know,

2663
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:24,200
check out this part.

2664
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:25,660
And it's like but they don't do that

2665
01:28:25,660 --> 01:28:26,200
a lot of times.

2666
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:28,200
It's just like, boom, here's another episode.

2667
01:28:28,360 --> 01:28:29,460
Just drop right in.

2668
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:31,860
A lot of the NPR shows now will

2669
01:28:31,860 --> 01:28:32,680
at the end.

2670
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:34,480
So it'll like the show will be done,

2671
01:28:34,500 --> 01:28:36,680
but then they will include in the same

2672
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:38,700
episode, like eight minutes of another show.

2673
01:28:39,160 --> 01:28:41,560
And I like the idea of that.

2674
01:28:41,620 --> 01:28:42,840
I mean, it's easy to skip out.

2675
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:44,720
But if if there was more metadata around

2676
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:46,480
that, I think that'd be nice because I'm

2677
01:28:46,480 --> 01:28:48,040
sure it doesn't work that well.

2678
01:28:48,100 --> 01:28:48,340
Right.

2679
01:28:48,340 --> 01:28:49,460
It's just more of a word of mouth

2680
01:28:49,460 --> 01:28:49,980
sort of thing.

2681
01:28:50,100 --> 01:28:51,200
And it's not at the beginning.

2682
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:51,560
Yeah.

2683
01:28:52,140 --> 01:28:54,000
As a listener, I'm with you guys.

2684
01:28:54,060 --> 01:28:54,640
I hate those.

2685
01:28:55,420 --> 01:28:57,940
Yeah, it's just like, why would you why

2686
01:28:57,940 --> 01:29:00,480
would you sell your your listeners that way?

2687
01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:02,340
It just seems short sighted to me.

2688
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:05,720
But I'm sure it's apparently very high CPO.

2689
01:29:05,820 --> 01:29:07,100
Now you can do it on Lipson's.

2690
01:29:07,280 --> 01:29:07,400
Yeah.

2691
01:29:08,380 --> 01:29:10,020
Piss off your listeners on Lipson.

2692
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:10,520
Whoo.

2693
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:11,400
There we go.

2694
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:15,200
Salty Crayon, thirty three thousand three hundred and

2695
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:15,900
thirty three cents.

2696
01:29:15,980 --> 01:29:16,760
I'm going to hit a ball.

2697
01:29:17,260 --> 01:29:18,240
That was nice.

2698
01:29:18,700 --> 01:29:21,220
A 20 inch blade on the Impala.

2699
01:29:21,620 --> 01:29:23,680
Nice, nice booster gram.

2700
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:24,200
Thank you.

2701
01:29:24,480 --> 01:29:25,280
Curio Castor.

2702
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:27,260
It says, Howdy Dave and Adam.

2703
01:29:27,260 --> 01:29:28,620
Just want to say a huge thanks for

2704
01:29:28,620 --> 01:29:30,660
all you've done to build and built with

2705
01:29:30,660 --> 01:29:32,380
everyone for podcasting 2.0 and the music.

2706
01:29:32,580 --> 01:29:34,560
I think the remaining ones of us music

2707
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:37,760
podcasters can confidently carry the banner of V4V

2708
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:39,900
music when you all move on to full

2709
01:29:39,900 --> 01:29:41,840
on God casting like Hello Fred.

2710
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:44,620
It's been full of scissors and we're happy

2711
01:29:44,620 --> 01:29:45,480
to keep running with them.

2712
01:29:45,580 --> 01:29:46,800
Five by five in the pipe.

2713
01:29:47,160 --> 01:29:48,800
I don't think we're going anywhere.

2714
01:29:49,440 --> 01:29:50,440
Nobody's moving on.

2715
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:51,640
Yeah, I think we're good.

2716
01:29:51,820 --> 01:29:52,560
I think we're good.

2717
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:54,640
It just adds to the pile.

2718
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:56,000
Yes, it does.

2719
01:29:57,280 --> 01:29:58,080
Let's see.

2720
01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:01,120
Oh, let's see.

2721
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:02,780
This is oh, this is last year.

2722
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:05,000
Martin Lindis got the true fans 1776.

2723
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:07,300
Adam, best premises with your fire chat at

2724
01:30:07,300 --> 01:30:08,500
the podcast movement conference.

2725
01:30:08,740 --> 01:30:10,700
I asked Rocky Thomas on LinkedIn if it

2726
01:30:10,700 --> 01:30:12,340
would be possible to listen to your conversation

2727
01:30:12,340 --> 01:30:14,320
on a new modern podcast app.

2728
01:30:14,740 --> 01:30:16,960
She replied, quote, Working on it.

2729
01:30:16,980 --> 01:30:18,440
We'll let you know, unquote.

2730
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:20,940
I will do an episode on podcast events

2731
01:30:20,940 --> 01:30:21,720
on my new podcast.

2732
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:22,780
Swing that gig.

2733
01:30:22,780 --> 01:30:27,980
We planned an unconference potluck conference in in

2734
01:30:27,980 --> 01:30:31,040
Gutenberg some time ago, but the pandemic came

2735
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:32,720
along and it was not possible to arrange

2736
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:33,080
it.

2737
01:30:33,300 --> 01:30:33,980
Bummer.

2738
01:30:34,620 --> 01:30:35,760
Let's see.

2739
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:38,160
And we got a few of those.

2740
01:30:38,460 --> 01:30:39,580
Here's the delineator.

2741
01:30:39,820 --> 01:30:43,260
Comedy blogger 13320 through fountain.

2742
01:30:44,340 --> 01:30:45,360
Howdy, Dave and Adam.

2743
01:30:45,980 --> 01:30:50,040
Yesterday on no agenda, Adam mentioned a certain

2744
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:53,420
PayPal co-founder and his transhumanism.

2745
01:30:54,400 --> 01:30:58,140
Well, race for immortality is one of the

2746
01:30:58,140 --> 01:31:01,060
main topics of the best science fiction TV

2747
01:31:01,060 --> 01:31:02,420
show of 2025.

2748
01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:06,280
Alien Earth that I hereby recommend today.

2749
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:09,200
It's available on Hulu and Disney Plus.

2750
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:11,120
It's an epic sci fi.

2751
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:14,500
Alien Earth is set in the year 2120

2752
01:31:14,500 --> 01:31:18,160
and tells a story of synths, cyborgs and

2753
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:19,620
body horror aliens.

2754
01:31:20,100 --> 01:31:21,200
Too scary for ladies.

2755
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:23,980
So watch alone or with your man friends.

2756
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:28,180
Yo, CSB, with your man friends.

2757
01:31:28,780 --> 01:31:30,640
Yeah, that's awesome.

2758
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:32,340
I think I think CSB may have been

2759
01:31:32,340 --> 01:31:34,220
drinking because there was a lot of misspelling

2760
01:31:34,220 --> 01:31:34,620
in that.

2761
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:36,660
Yeah, it happens.

2762
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:40,840
Oh, the Mary Oscar, Mary.

2763
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:42,660
Oh, send us 2000 sets through fountain.

2764
01:31:42,740 --> 01:31:43,720
He said, thank you.

2765
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:45,240
Thank you, Dave, for all the hard work

2766
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:46,240
on fixing this issue.

2767
01:31:46,240 --> 01:31:47,700
I think he means the soundbites issue.

2768
01:31:48,180 --> 01:31:50,560
Oh, yes, it was quite an issue, Oscar.

2769
01:31:50,820 --> 01:31:50,980
Yeah.

2770
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:51,560
Yeah, you're welcome.

2771
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:52,280
Oh, thank you.

2772
01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:54,680
By the way, on that same note, John,

2773
01:31:55,660 --> 01:31:55,760
what?

2774
01:31:56,960 --> 01:31:59,860
Do you I think the jump in transcripts

2775
01:31:59,860 --> 01:32:01,160
might be Spreaker.

2776
01:32:02,980 --> 01:32:03,700
Oh, OK.

2777
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:05,600
I didn't take the time to actually look

2778
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:06,520
into it.

2779
01:32:06,540 --> 01:32:07,420
So that's great.

2780
01:32:07,440 --> 01:32:09,420
If they're producing more transcripts, that's awesome.

2781
01:32:10,300 --> 01:32:11,820
What made you identify them?

2782
01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:15,720
Because I look I just reverse sorted that

2783
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:19,160
table just to see what the you know,

2784
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:21,320
to see if there was like an obvious

2785
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:25,920
trend of one host over the other, like

2786
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:28,160
with the most when the most recent transcripts

2787
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:28,680
are coming in.

2788
01:32:28,780 --> 01:32:31,660
And I see like an overwhelming number of

2789
01:32:31,660 --> 01:32:32,280
Spreaker.

2790
01:32:32,460 --> 01:32:34,360
And I don't think they were producing it

2791
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:35,520
in that volume before.

2792
01:32:36,360 --> 01:32:36,900
Oh, that's great.

2793
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:38,560
I'm just taking a look here to see

2794
01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:40,140
it's still like they're still taking off.

2795
01:32:40,140 --> 01:32:42,060
And Spreaker produces a ton of shows.

2796
01:32:42,180 --> 01:32:45,080
So if they're auto transcribing, that would definitely

2797
01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:46,220
be very nice.

2798
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:48,460
Did we know that?

2799
01:32:48,660 --> 01:32:50,360
I don't think we knew that they were

2800
01:32:50,360 --> 01:32:52,160
doing transcripts, did we?

2801
01:32:53,660 --> 01:32:54,640
The royal we here.

2802
01:32:55,300 --> 01:32:56,260
Yes, yes, we.

2803
01:32:57,420 --> 01:32:58,180
Yes, we.

2804
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:00,740
I don't remember.

2805
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:02,320
Did they put out some sort of announcement?

2806
01:33:02,440 --> 01:33:03,640
Because I don't remember that.

2807
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:06,360
So I think this must be something that

2808
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:08,540
they just flip the switch on.

2809
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:09,660
Well, we love that.

2810
01:33:09,660 --> 01:33:10,740
This is good news.

2811
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:11,800
Good news, everybody.

2812
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:14,180
Yeah, they have good guys over there.

2813
01:33:14,380 --> 01:33:14,700
They they're.

2814
01:33:14,940 --> 01:33:15,420
Yeah, yeah.

2815
01:33:15,420 --> 01:33:16,940
They were there at the conference as well.

2816
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:18,540
Did you talk to them, Adam?

2817
01:33:18,920 --> 01:33:20,760
I I'm sure I only took selfies with

2818
01:33:20,760 --> 01:33:21,200
them.

2819
01:33:22,540 --> 01:33:25,680
No, I wish I wish I had.

2820
01:33:26,220 --> 01:33:27,500
It was it was tough.

2821
01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:29,340
Everyone's walking around doing stuff.

2822
01:33:29,460 --> 01:33:30,880
You know, it's just it's tough.

2823
01:33:30,980 --> 01:33:32,020
It's hard being me, John.

2824
01:33:32,340 --> 01:33:33,160
Hard being me.

2825
01:33:33,820 --> 01:33:34,440
Celebrity life.

2826
01:33:34,620 --> 01:33:35,180
No, please.

2827
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:37,160
Well, thank you very much, John, for being

2828
01:33:37,160 --> 01:33:37,360
here.

2829
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:38,180
We appreciate you.

2830
01:33:38,180 --> 01:33:40,620
Appreciate all you're doing for for podcasting, for

2831
01:33:40,620 --> 01:33:42,980
podcasting 2.0. Put no I subscribed.

2832
01:33:43,260 --> 01:33:45,460
I got on your subscription here to help

2833
01:33:45,460 --> 01:33:46,420
out with OP3.

2834
01:33:47,420 --> 01:33:48,020
Appreciate it.

2835
01:33:48,120 --> 01:33:49,300
No, I appreciate you, man.

2836
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:51,880
This is I realize like you're not shoving

2837
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:52,840
it in my face enough.

2838
01:33:53,480 --> 01:33:55,780
Remember, the number one reason people don't give

2839
01:33:55,780 --> 01:33:57,300
you money is because you didn't ask for

2840
01:33:57,300 --> 01:33:57,460
it.

2841
01:33:57,460 --> 01:33:58,360
So you got to you got to be

2842
01:33:58,360 --> 01:33:59,400
a little more assertive.

2843
01:33:59,460 --> 01:34:00,860
Put a big button there like we have

2844
01:34:00,860 --> 01:34:03,020
on podcast index that or get the bottom

2845
01:34:03,020 --> 01:34:04,900
of that page, a big red donate button.

2846
01:34:05,340 --> 01:34:08,140
People can send their fiat fund coupons and

2847
01:34:08,140 --> 01:34:08,980
PayPal to us.

2848
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:10,220
And it's really appreciated.

2849
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:13,400
And well, we'll have to have you on

2850
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:13,620
again.

2851
01:34:13,700 --> 01:34:14,660
Of course, we will.

2852
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:17,020
When when I'm looking forward to your app,

2853
01:34:17,020 --> 01:34:18,240
I'm very excited about that.

2854
01:34:19,460 --> 01:34:20,300
Yeah, nice, nice.

2855
01:34:20,580 --> 01:34:20,720
Yeah.

2856
01:34:20,920 --> 01:34:22,480
Believe me, once that's out, you're going to

2857
01:34:22,480 --> 01:34:23,540
get hit in the face with that.

2858
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:25,200
Everyone's going to hear about that.

2859
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:26,360
Cool.

2860
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:27,100
All right, brother.

2861
01:34:27,180 --> 01:34:29,540
Dave, have have a good time with your

2862
01:34:29,540 --> 01:34:30,060
kiln.

2863
01:34:30,900 --> 01:34:32,620
You can kill things.

2864
01:34:32,620 --> 01:34:34,860
I don't this thing is a three phase

2865
01:34:34,860 --> 01:34:36,820
and it needs to be rewired for single

2866
01:34:36,820 --> 01:34:37,300
phase.

2867
01:34:37,780 --> 01:34:39,620
It's so far beyond my electrical.

2868
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:40,660
Just stay away.

2869
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:42,520
Stay far away when the guy come our

2870
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:42,660
way.

2871
01:34:42,860 --> 01:34:43,100
Do that.

2872
01:34:43,220 --> 01:34:43,600
Exactly.

2873
01:34:44,020 --> 01:34:44,640
All right, everybody.

2874
01:34:44,780 --> 01:34:45,480
Thank you very much.

2875
01:34:45,820 --> 01:34:46,960
Boardroom for being here.

2876
01:34:47,060 --> 01:34:49,020
We will return, of course, next Friday for

2877
01:34:49,020 --> 01:35:08,270
another board meeting of podcasting 2.0. You

2878
01:35:08,270 --> 01:35:11,470
hope you have been listening to podcasting 2

2879
01:35:11,470 --> 01:35:15,190
.0. Visit podcast index dot org for more

2880
01:35:15,190 --> 01:35:16,050
information.

2881
01:35:16,330 --> 01:35:17,790
Go podcasting.

2882
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:20,490
I like bad audio.