1
00:00:00,830 --> 00:00:04,370
Podcasting 2.0 for October 24th, 2025, episode

2
00:00:04,370 --> 00:00:05,510
239.

3
00:00:05,870 --> 00:00:06,870
We're fuzzing.

4
00:00:08,210 --> 00:00:11,090
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the boardroom.

5
00:00:11,230 --> 00:00:12,390
This is where it all happens.

6
00:00:12,530 --> 00:00:14,730
The magic takes place right here.

7
00:00:15,129 --> 00:00:17,470
It is time for podcasting 2.0, everything

8
00:00:17,470 --> 00:00:18,910
going on in podcasting.

9
00:00:18,990 --> 00:00:20,710
And there's a lot going on, as always.

10
00:00:21,230 --> 00:00:23,110
We are, in fact, the only boardroom that

11
00:00:23,110 --> 00:00:25,110
does not have an adoption process.

12
00:00:25,490 --> 00:00:27,150
I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of

13
00:00:27,150 --> 00:00:29,250
the Texas Hill Country, and in Alabama, the

14
00:00:29,250 --> 00:00:31,729
man who will not backfill your stats or

15
00:00:31,729 --> 00:00:32,110
mine.

16
00:00:32,510 --> 00:00:33,970
Say hello to my friend on the other

17
00:00:33,970 --> 00:00:36,630
end, the one, the only, the illustrious Mr.

18
00:00:37,510 --> 00:00:38,810
Dave Jones.

19
00:00:40,370 --> 00:00:44,290
I read Justin Jackson's adoption process.

20
00:00:44,410 --> 00:00:45,210
I do too.

21
00:00:45,490 --> 00:00:48,110
Lots of boxes with connectors.

22
00:00:49,190 --> 00:00:52,250
Justin, I love you, man, but that's a

23
00:00:52,250 --> 00:00:52,890
lot of stuff.

24
00:00:53,050 --> 00:00:57,130
It felt a lot like a corporate process.

25
00:00:58,470 --> 00:00:58,690
Yeah.

26
00:00:58,870 --> 00:01:00,250
I mean, is that how it felt to

27
00:01:00,250 --> 00:01:00,470
you?

28
00:01:00,930 --> 00:01:01,630
Maybe it'll work.

29
00:01:01,770 --> 00:01:02,230
Yeah, it did.

30
00:01:02,310 --> 00:01:10,010
It felt like a PowerPoint at an offsite.

31
00:01:11,150 --> 00:01:14,110
We have an away this weekend, and Justin's

32
00:01:14,110 --> 00:01:14,790
bringing the PowerPoint.

33
00:01:15,130 --> 00:01:16,430
Well, there was a lot of talk about

34
00:01:16,430 --> 00:01:17,830
it on Power.

35
00:01:17,950 --> 00:01:19,150
I don't know if you've listened to Power

36
00:01:19,150 --> 00:01:21,470
podcast weekly review.

37
00:01:22,270 --> 00:01:23,070
It was interesting.

38
00:01:25,030 --> 00:01:26,490
Sam is very down.

39
00:01:26,710 --> 00:01:28,210
I think he's very down on everything.

40
00:01:28,770 --> 00:01:29,950
Oh, man, come on.

41
00:01:30,110 --> 00:01:31,190
Sam, I'm sorry, brother.

42
00:01:31,410 --> 00:01:34,110
Somehow he feels like adoption of everything is

43
00:01:34,110 --> 00:01:34,590
key.

44
00:01:35,630 --> 00:01:37,810
Well, not everybody's adopting.

45
00:01:38,170 --> 00:01:42,270
These things take so much time that's just

46
00:01:42,270 --> 00:01:42,790
waiting.

47
00:01:43,050 --> 00:01:45,510
And I think no matter where I look

48
00:01:45,510 --> 00:01:48,490
at the super secret WhatsApp group or the

49
00:01:48,490 --> 00:01:51,350
Slack group or wherever I look, I've been

50
00:01:51,350 --> 00:01:52,510
added to all these.

51
00:01:53,550 --> 00:01:56,390
It's all still, well, is Apple doing it?

52
00:01:56,610 --> 00:01:59,070
That is the same thing we've been hearing

53
00:01:59,070 --> 00:02:00,390
for over 20 years.

54
00:02:01,590 --> 00:02:03,950
And if Apple doesn't adopt it, then it

55
00:02:03,950 --> 00:02:05,470
might as well be a tree in the

56
00:02:05,470 --> 00:02:06,270
forest that fell.

57
00:02:07,570 --> 00:02:09,610
And I just fundamentally disagree.

58
00:02:09,870 --> 00:02:13,430
And also there's a little bit and it's

59
00:02:13,430 --> 00:02:14,030
cultural.

60
00:02:14,710 --> 00:02:19,750
I think the Brits and even though James

61
00:02:19,750 --> 00:02:22,070
is in Australia and I don't know if

62
00:02:22,070 --> 00:02:23,470
he considers himself to be a Brit, well,

63
00:02:23,530 --> 00:02:24,370
it's a penal colony.

64
00:02:28,330 --> 00:02:30,290
I'll get there.

65
00:02:33,450 --> 00:02:35,950
It's like the complaining about the government.

66
00:02:36,850 --> 00:02:39,530
And we come from a different culture.

67
00:02:39,730 --> 00:02:42,330
It's like we, the government is always by

68
00:02:42,330 --> 00:02:44,110
the people of the people for the people.

69
00:02:45,570 --> 00:02:48,570
And there's like, well, no one's funding the

70
00:02:48,570 --> 00:02:50,550
PSP to evangelize.

71
00:02:50,690 --> 00:02:51,670
It doesn't work that way.

72
00:02:51,710 --> 00:02:52,870
It'll never work that way.

73
00:02:53,610 --> 00:02:55,350
And in fact, I think there's a gross

74
00:02:55,350 --> 00:02:59,030
misunderstanding about what we're doing.

75
00:03:01,030 --> 00:03:04,350
We set up the podcast index to allow

76
00:03:04,350 --> 00:03:08,730
for non-censorship.

77
00:03:09,270 --> 00:03:11,850
It's right there on the tin, as they

78
00:03:11,850 --> 00:03:12,190
say.

79
00:03:12,770 --> 00:03:15,430
We do not believe that Apple should be

80
00:03:15,430 --> 00:03:18,010
the ruler of the universe as to what

81
00:03:18,010 --> 00:03:20,830
is in podcasting, what isn't in podcasting.

82
00:03:20,910 --> 00:03:22,650
That's how it's, that's literally the reason why

83
00:03:22,650 --> 00:03:25,970
it started because they started de-platforming people

84
00:03:25,970 --> 00:03:28,690
during an era of de-platforming.

85
00:03:29,950 --> 00:03:33,170
And at the same time, we created a

86
00:03:33,170 --> 00:03:37,930
namespace with the pod love chapters because it

87
00:03:37,930 --> 00:03:41,890
was there and the value tag, because it

88
00:03:41,890 --> 00:03:44,310
was a thought that at the time made

89
00:03:44,310 --> 00:03:44,950
a lot of sense.

90
00:03:45,030 --> 00:03:46,210
I think it still makes a lot of

91
00:03:46,210 --> 00:03:46,550
sense.

92
00:03:47,410 --> 00:03:49,790
And people came in and we set up

93
00:03:49,790 --> 00:03:53,690
podcastindex.social as a way to, you know,

94
00:03:53,770 --> 00:03:54,710
discuss things.

95
00:03:55,170 --> 00:03:57,470
But I need to push back from time

96
00:03:57,470 --> 00:03:59,710
to time, like Adam Curry and Dave Jones

97
00:03:59,710 --> 00:04:01,250
aren't here to do anything.

98
00:04:01,830 --> 00:04:02,870
We're not the government.

99
00:04:03,230 --> 00:04:04,030
We're not your daddy.

100
00:04:04,950 --> 00:04:06,410
You know, we're not here to do anything.

101
00:04:06,790 --> 00:04:07,390
No, we're not.

102
00:04:07,490 --> 00:04:08,870
Well, we do this podcast.

103
00:04:09,530 --> 00:04:11,890
I would say the main reason is to

104
00:04:11,890 --> 00:04:15,709
ensure that people are reminded that the podcast

105
00:04:15,709 --> 00:04:19,610
index is a value for value project and

106
00:04:19,610 --> 00:04:20,570
it needs funding.

107
00:04:20,890 --> 00:04:23,910
And we accept that funding through booster grams

108
00:04:23,910 --> 00:04:25,890
and all those little bits and all the,

109
00:04:26,550 --> 00:04:29,150
all the 1% splits that helps.

110
00:04:29,350 --> 00:04:30,690
It really helps over time.

111
00:04:30,810 --> 00:04:32,970
Certainly we've never had to dip into the

112
00:04:34,750 --> 00:04:37,610
node for any cash for the system.

113
00:04:38,350 --> 00:04:40,390
And of course we have a big red

114
00:04:40,390 --> 00:04:42,310
donate button at the bottom of the page

115
00:04:42,310 --> 00:04:43,170
and that's for PayPal.

116
00:04:43,990 --> 00:04:46,550
And I mean, lots of people have supported

117
00:04:46,550 --> 00:04:48,910
this, continue to support it with monthlies, with

118
00:04:48,910 --> 00:04:51,010
ongoing small bits and pieces.

119
00:04:51,410 --> 00:04:53,550
Some of the hosting companies come in big

120
00:04:53,550 --> 00:04:54,230
once a month.

121
00:04:54,410 --> 00:04:56,550
And that literally, I mean, we're, I look

122
00:04:56,550 --> 00:04:58,590
at our cash balance and, you know, we're

123
00:04:58,590 --> 00:04:59,490
about the same.

124
00:04:59,670 --> 00:05:00,930
We kind of roll on.

125
00:05:01,310 --> 00:05:03,990
We did very well in the beginning and

126
00:05:03,990 --> 00:05:06,570
now we're just about self-sustaining.

127
00:05:06,970 --> 00:05:08,830
You know, it doesn't really go up.

128
00:05:08,870 --> 00:05:09,850
It doesn't really go down.

129
00:05:09,910 --> 00:05:10,690
It just stays there.

130
00:05:10,710 --> 00:05:12,010
And we have enough for a couple of

131
00:05:12,010 --> 00:05:14,010
years should all funding stop.

132
00:05:14,010 --> 00:05:16,990
But that was really the idea.

133
00:05:17,470 --> 00:05:20,410
And somehow when I hear like, well, you

134
00:05:20,410 --> 00:05:22,510
know, what, what does Dave Jones determine?

135
00:05:22,630 --> 00:05:24,910
I'm like, hold on a second, you know,

136
00:05:25,030 --> 00:05:27,510
and well, you know, the, nothing has happened

137
00:05:27,510 --> 00:05:30,610
in phase eight since November, 2024.

138
00:05:30,910 --> 00:05:31,750
Hold on a sec.

139
00:05:31,770 --> 00:05:33,450
There's been a lot of things that have

140
00:05:33,450 --> 00:05:35,570
gotten into the namespace.

141
00:05:35,930 --> 00:05:39,210
It's been, I would say by general consensus.

142
00:05:41,310 --> 00:05:44,290
And, uh, I, I liked the idea of

143
00:05:44,290 --> 00:05:45,970
the podcast standards project.

144
00:05:46,350 --> 00:05:48,790
It doesn't really seem to be functioning.

145
00:05:48,970 --> 00:05:50,930
I sat in the last meeting, one of

146
00:05:50,930 --> 00:05:52,210
the last meetings, I liked it.

147
00:05:52,250 --> 00:05:54,050
And, you know, people were talking about things

148
00:05:54,050 --> 00:05:56,110
that were important to them, which of course

149
00:05:56,110 --> 00:05:58,270
had nothing to do with the namespace.

150
00:05:58,270 --> 00:06:00,290
It was all about HLS video, at least

151
00:06:00,290 --> 00:06:02,090
the session for the time that I was

152
00:06:02,090 --> 00:06:02,450
there.

153
00:06:03,930 --> 00:06:07,470
And, you know, what do you want?

154
00:06:07,690 --> 00:06:09,990
I mean, do you, it's like, it's a

155
00:06:09,990 --> 00:06:12,190
fail, you know, it's deemed a failure because

156
00:06:12,190 --> 00:06:13,950
these tags have gone nowhere.

157
00:06:14,430 --> 00:06:15,510
Well, I disagree.

158
00:06:16,150 --> 00:06:18,830
I think these tags are very valuable and

159
00:06:18,830 --> 00:06:20,810
people can use them for other projects.

160
00:06:20,970 --> 00:06:26,010
If anything, the mindset of podcasting development, both

161
00:06:26,010 --> 00:06:27,830
on the app and the hosting side is

162
00:06:27,830 --> 00:06:31,010
very stuck in a one track mind of

163
00:06:31,010 --> 00:06:33,490
this is what we do, transmitter receiver.

164
00:06:34,130 --> 00:06:37,650
And I, I fundamentally don't think that's the

165
00:06:37,650 --> 00:06:39,010
future of anything really.

166
00:06:39,250 --> 00:06:41,530
I mean, you know, it's, there's, there's ways

167
00:06:41,530 --> 00:06:42,990
to expand and look at things.

168
00:06:43,110 --> 00:06:44,450
We did this with Godcast.

169
00:06:44,510 --> 00:06:48,490
We've created something completely different based on RSS

170
00:06:48,490 --> 00:06:50,670
and the index.

171
00:06:51,010 --> 00:06:52,570
And we've done something completely different.

172
00:06:52,730 --> 00:06:55,130
And just as a quick aside, the pub,

173
00:06:55,130 --> 00:06:58,850
because we were essentially accused of being horrible

174
00:06:58,850 --> 00:06:59,270
people.

175
00:06:59,510 --> 00:07:02,950
I'm exaggerating because we didn't use the publisher

176
00:07:02,950 --> 00:07:04,530
feed in Godcaster.

177
00:07:05,170 --> 00:07:08,130
I just need to read you from the

178
00:07:08,130 --> 00:07:11,650
publisher tag in the namespace.

179
00:07:12,510 --> 00:07:14,730
This element allows a podcast feed to link

180
00:07:14,730 --> 00:07:16,310
to its publisher feed parent.

181
00:07:16,470 --> 00:07:18,750
This is useful when a parent publishing entity

182
00:07:18,750 --> 00:07:22,330
wants to attest ownership over all the podcast

183
00:07:22,330 --> 00:07:23,370
feeds it owns.

184
00:07:23,890 --> 00:07:26,730
These feeds are not owned by the people

185
00:07:26,730 --> 00:07:27,830
putting the feeds together.

186
00:07:28,170 --> 00:07:30,310
Stations don't own those podcasts.

187
00:07:30,870 --> 00:07:31,810
Those are not the publishers.

188
00:07:32,070 --> 00:07:33,190
So it was kind of like, well, you're

189
00:07:33,190 --> 00:07:34,510
not eating your own dog food.

190
00:07:34,830 --> 00:07:36,710
I'm like, simmer down, Sparky.

191
00:07:37,890 --> 00:07:40,390
It's not, it's not, that's not the use.

192
00:07:40,450 --> 00:07:42,310
That's not the correct use case for that.

193
00:07:42,690 --> 00:07:45,690
No, we, we, we, and we do, we

194
00:07:45,690 --> 00:07:47,770
actually do have a plan to use the

195
00:07:47,770 --> 00:07:53,090
publisher feed because we recently, which is not

196
00:07:53,090 --> 00:07:57,630
even released yet, have a publisher feature and

197
00:07:57,630 --> 00:08:00,310
we're a, and we're the actual publisher, not

198
00:08:00,310 --> 00:08:02,090
the station, but the actual publisher.

199
00:08:02,290 --> 00:08:04,470
So somebody like Focus on the Family or

200
00:08:04,470 --> 00:08:07,870
whoever can get in and, and we can

201
00:08:07,870 --> 00:08:11,450
help, we can set a particular set of

202
00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:13,590
podcasts to be owned by them.

203
00:08:14,550 --> 00:08:17,110
And then we will produce a publisher feed

204
00:08:17,110 --> 00:08:19,250
exactly on their behalf.

205
00:08:19,730 --> 00:08:22,910
But that's still not, they have it.

206
00:08:23,290 --> 00:08:25,130
That's just a convenience for them.

207
00:08:25,250 --> 00:08:28,770
If they want to use that, they, they

208
00:08:28,770 --> 00:08:30,650
should be publishing that themselves.

209
00:08:32,230 --> 00:08:36,289
Why would we publish using the example of

210
00:08:36,289 --> 00:08:36,990
Focus on the Family?

211
00:08:37,309 --> 00:08:38,990
They have like, I don't know, 10 or

212
00:08:38,990 --> 00:08:40,870
so podcasts out there in the world.

213
00:08:41,669 --> 00:08:44,930
Why would Godcaster publish a publisher feed for

214
00:08:44,930 --> 00:08:45,270
them?

215
00:08:46,090 --> 00:08:46,190
Exactly.

216
00:08:46,250 --> 00:08:49,350
That's their, that, that, who are we?

217
00:08:49,610 --> 00:08:50,150
Right.

218
00:08:50,270 --> 00:08:53,190
They should be doing that on the, with

219
00:08:53,190 --> 00:08:54,770
their own system.

220
00:08:55,050 --> 00:08:55,530
Exactly.

221
00:08:56,310 --> 00:08:56,870
Exactly.

222
00:08:58,010 --> 00:09:00,390
So it, it was just, it was, and

223
00:09:00,390 --> 00:09:04,730
I understand, you know, but actually I don't

224
00:09:04,730 --> 00:09:08,810
understand what people just want to listen to

225
00:09:08,810 --> 00:09:09,210
podcasts.

226
00:09:09,330 --> 00:09:11,270
And if you tell them there's a cool

227
00:09:11,270 --> 00:09:13,570
feature in a certain app you can use

228
00:09:13,570 --> 00:09:16,630
with your podcast feed, it turns out people

229
00:09:16,630 --> 00:09:19,290
probably use that app for that very reason.

230
00:09:19,850 --> 00:09:21,310
I do this all the time.

231
00:09:21,350 --> 00:09:24,830
I say, use a modern podcast app, podcastapps

232
00:09:24,830 --> 00:09:27,110
.com for two, well, three reasons.

233
00:09:27,710 --> 00:09:30,110
One, you get the bat signal when we

234
00:09:30,110 --> 00:09:32,110
go live and you can listen to our

235
00:09:32,110 --> 00:09:34,270
show as we record it live in your

236
00:09:34,270 --> 00:09:35,150
podcast app.

237
00:09:35,250 --> 00:09:37,510
Hello, mind-blowing legacy apps.

238
00:09:38,310 --> 00:09:41,110
Two, when we publish the show within 90

239
00:09:41,110 --> 00:09:44,030
seconds, thanks to the pod ping technology, you

240
00:09:44,030 --> 00:09:44,830
will be alerted.

241
00:09:44,910 --> 00:09:47,150
So stop waiting around on your legacy apps.

242
00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:50,130
And three, you get chapters in chapter art,

243
00:09:50,190 --> 00:09:51,550
which are fun and entertaining.

244
00:09:52,250 --> 00:09:54,350
And then of course there's the transcript and

245
00:09:54,350 --> 00:09:55,950
other things, but that's what I highlight and

246
00:09:55,950 --> 00:09:57,350
people use it for that reason.

247
00:09:57,350 --> 00:10:00,250
You know, and do I expect the whole

248
00:10:00,250 --> 00:10:04,370
world to listen to No Agenda on modern

249
00:10:04,370 --> 00:10:05,290
podcast apps?

250
00:10:05,430 --> 00:10:07,690
No, it's actually, it's quite a lot when

251
00:10:07,690 --> 00:10:10,750
you look at the OP3 stats, but a

252
00:10:10,750 --> 00:10:12,690
lot of people listen on the website.

253
00:10:13,810 --> 00:10:17,770
To me, for baffling reasons, I would say

254
00:10:17,770 --> 00:10:21,350
there's almost 15% of people listen to

255
00:10:21,350 --> 00:10:24,050
No Agenda, three and a half hour show

256
00:10:24,050 --> 00:10:25,930
at noagendashow.net.

257
00:10:26,250 --> 00:10:30,930
Now there's 2.0 features that show up

258
00:10:30,930 --> 00:10:35,570
there like chapters and transcript and I'm not

259
00:10:35,570 --> 00:10:36,110
sure what else.

260
00:10:36,730 --> 00:10:39,590
And that flows through nicely, but you know,

261
00:10:39,650 --> 00:10:41,390
it's like, what do you want?

262
00:10:41,930 --> 00:10:43,310
What are you expecting?

263
00:10:44,430 --> 00:10:45,550
I mean, what is success?

264
00:10:45,930 --> 00:10:49,410
To me, the fact that the index exists

265
00:10:49,410 --> 00:10:52,170
and anybody can create any crazy idea they

266
00:10:52,170 --> 00:10:54,890
have for podcasting is the success.

267
00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:02,220
Open source projects are only successful and let's

268
00:11:02,220 --> 00:11:03,840
define successful for

269
00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:17,720
a

270
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:18,140
change.

271
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:29,280
And with that definition, there's a better word,

272
00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,600
sticking around long enough to see meaningful impact.

273
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,420
So if your open source projects have success

274
00:11:39,420 --> 00:11:44,460
in that way, only in so far as

275
00:11:44,460 --> 00:11:51,000
they stay around and staying around is 90

276
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,980
% of the success.

277
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,000
That's an excellent point.

278
00:11:58,610 --> 00:12:03,620
Because look at the carnage, look at the

279
00:12:03,620 --> 00:12:09,420
litter of open source projects that are just

280
00:12:09,420 --> 00:12:11,080
scattered everywhere that just don't exist.

281
00:12:11,340 --> 00:12:12,540
They're dead.

282
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,020
They're dead projects.

283
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,780
They won't ever return.

284
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,240
And most of that is because of burnout.

285
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:28,140
People don't, most, I'd say like almost all

286
00:12:28,140 --> 00:12:29,980
open source projects do not get funding.

287
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,080
They are projects that are built out of

288
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,510
love and passion for a particular thing.

289
00:12:37,970 --> 00:12:39,630
And passion wanes over time.

290
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:44,170
If you're not getting paid for it, then

291
00:12:44,170 --> 00:12:47,130
it's purely a passion project that fades.

292
00:12:47,470 --> 00:12:48,370
It does.

293
00:12:49,410 --> 00:12:53,830
And so that's why sticking around is so

294
00:12:53,830 --> 00:12:54,450
important.

295
00:12:55,070 --> 00:12:58,290
Because if you're not there, then the project

296
00:12:58,290 --> 00:13:00,490
has no chance of making impact.

297
00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:05,210
So my focus has always been first and

298
00:13:05,210 --> 00:13:07,510
foremost on just sticking around.

299
00:13:07,690 --> 00:13:08,530
I'm with you.

300
00:13:08,630 --> 00:13:10,070
I'm with you on that.

301
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:12,370
I mean, look at, look at how many

302
00:13:12,370 --> 00:13:17,090
hosting companies have added podcast index to their

303
00:13:17,090 --> 00:13:19,490
lineup of places that they publish.

304
00:13:20,130 --> 00:13:21,490
That to me, I look at that and

305
00:13:21,490 --> 00:13:24,290
go, yeah, win right there.

306
00:13:24,530 --> 00:13:27,370
That's the decentralization we were always looking for.

307
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:28,470
Right.

308
00:13:29,330 --> 00:13:40,440
And, and the, the sticking around means, sticking

309
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,320
around looks like life.

310
00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:47,620
You know, life, people's actual lives are messy.

311
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,300
And you go through phases in your life

312
00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:57,560
where you have, where things are, where things

313
00:13:57,560 --> 00:13:59,520
are busy, things take your attention away, that

314
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:00,060
kind of thing.

315
00:14:00,980 --> 00:14:03,100
And so you have to expect that there's

316
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:06,020
ebbs and flows in the activity of an

317
00:14:06,020 --> 00:14:07,120
open source project.

318
00:14:08,340 --> 00:14:10,040
And that's, that's fine.

319
00:14:10,140 --> 00:14:11,000
That's to be expected.

320
00:14:11,180 --> 00:14:14,240
People become, there's a flurry of activity around

321
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,660
the images tag and then things settle down

322
00:14:16,660 --> 00:14:17,500
and go quiet for a while.

323
00:14:17,740 --> 00:14:17,840
Right.

324
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,320
And actually, if you look at what James

325
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,420
did with the location tag, I think that's

326
00:14:21,420 --> 00:14:22,540
how you drive something.

327
00:14:23,020 --> 00:14:24,520
He did a great job on that.

328
00:14:25,220 --> 00:14:25,740
For sure.

329
00:14:26,020 --> 00:14:27,620
And then there's, so there's, there's these bursts

330
00:14:27,620 --> 00:14:28,220
of activity.

331
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,340
And then as there's bursts of activity, as

332
00:14:31,340 --> 00:14:39,240
recognition begins to build around the necessity or

333
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,300
the attractiveness of a certain set of features.

334
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,700
And then a lot of people pour their

335
00:14:45,700 --> 00:14:48,160
intensity into that for a period of time

336
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,520
and get it across the finish line.

337
00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:52,820
And then there's a pullback, there's a rest

338
00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:57,460
and that's fine because you can't, the quickest

339
00:14:57,460 --> 00:15:00,860
way to burn out an open source project

340
00:15:00,860 --> 00:15:06,500
is to expect consistent output on an unrealistic

341
00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:07,300
basis.

342
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:07,780
Amen.

343
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,180
And you know, in a funny way, the,

344
00:15:10,260 --> 00:15:14,480
the analog of government kind of fits here

345
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,100
because the podcast index is the true federal

346
00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:19,580
government.

347
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,940
It's only job is to protect your right,

348
00:15:23,340 --> 00:15:24,640
your right to podcast.

349
00:15:24,780 --> 00:15:25,300
That's it.

350
00:15:26,340 --> 00:15:28,920
And then over time, just like the United

351
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,420
States, but this of course is not a

352
00:15:30,420 --> 00:15:31,320
United States project.

353
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,240
We have all these States and all these

354
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,700
States have different things they want and don't

355
00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:37,000
want.

356
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,340
And you can see those as hosting companies

357
00:15:39,340 --> 00:15:43,720
as app companies and, and, and groups like

358
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:50,400
value for value, the, the music group, there's

359
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,300
all these different groups who have pieces they

360
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:55,180
want and pieces they want to use for

361
00:15:55,180 --> 00:15:56,020
different reasons.

362
00:15:56,340 --> 00:15:58,940
If we really think that all podcast apps

363
00:15:58,940 --> 00:16:01,040
are going to have this, all this set

364
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,160
of features and all hosting companies are going

365
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,500
to have some standardized set of features.

366
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:06,900
I say, dream on.

367
00:16:07,020 --> 00:16:08,960
I don't think that's ever going to happen.

368
00:16:09,860 --> 00:16:11,040
And maybe it shouldn't.

369
00:16:13,490 --> 00:16:18,290
Well, Buzzsprout, Buzzsprout is a huge, they've, there's,

370
00:16:18,450 --> 00:16:21,190
they're a huge supporter of, of, of us

371
00:16:21,190 --> 00:16:21,770
financially.

372
00:16:22,890 --> 00:16:26,070
They keep us in the black when we

373
00:16:26,070 --> 00:16:29,830
had a couple of big drop-offs and

374
00:16:29,830 --> 00:16:31,770
they teach every month.

375
00:16:32,430 --> 00:16:35,890
And they're also more than just financially supportive.

376
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:38,150
I hung out with Tom Rossi a couple

377
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:39,130
of weeks ago here in Birmingham.

378
00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:41,050
He was up here and we had, you

379
00:16:41,050 --> 00:16:42,190
know, we had a beer and are you

380
00:16:42,190 --> 00:16:42,750
an advisor?

381
00:16:42,990 --> 00:16:44,150
Are you an advisor?

382
00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:46,730
You need to disclose if you're an advisor.

383
00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:49,690
I have nothing to disclose anywhere because I'm

384
00:16:49,690 --> 00:16:51,690
not any of that.

385
00:16:52,810 --> 00:16:54,830
But you know, we hung out and talked

386
00:16:54,830 --> 00:16:55,350
for a few hours.

387
00:16:55,450 --> 00:16:57,470
We did not even mention podcasting.

388
00:16:57,630 --> 00:17:01,330
I think maybe we mentioned it once during

389
00:17:01,330 --> 00:17:03,210
the whole evening of spending, we talked, we

390
00:17:03,210 --> 00:17:08,290
talked about family and school and kids and

391
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:12,310
and Christianity, sports ball.

392
00:17:12,609 --> 00:17:14,030
No, we did not talk about sports ball.

393
00:17:14,970 --> 00:17:17,010
We just talked about all kinds of stuff.

394
00:17:17,910 --> 00:17:19,890
So they're more than just a financial supporter.

395
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:23,650
They're also a, you know, just a, a,

396
00:17:23,650 --> 00:17:26,250
a motivator and a, and a, just a,

397
00:17:27,050 --> 00:17:28,590
a people that help just like, just like

398
00:17:28,590 --> 00:17:31,130
RSS.com and, and, and, and Todd and

399
00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:34,470
them, they, they, they pour more than just

400
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:35,770
money into these things.

401
00:17:35,770 --> 00:17:37,650
They also pour themselves into it.

402
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:40,410
But the example of Buzzsprout, I brought that

403
00:17:40,410 --> 00:17:43,350
up for a reason because they have not

404
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:46,230
adopted a ton of podcasting 2.0 tags.

405
00:17:46,750 --> 00:17:49,350
They've got a few, you know, they've got,

406
00:17:49,490 --> 00:17:53,210
they've got a handful, but they are going

407
00:17:53,210 --> 00:17:57,590
by what they're going by a timetable that

408
00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:59,590
makes sense to their business.

409
00:18:01,350 --> 00:18:06,670
And when, when they go and make their

410
00:18:06,670 --> 00:18:09,390
next plan for their next feature build or

411
00:18:09,390 --> 00:18:12,550
whatever that is, everything's available to them.

412
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:17,050
The whole, you know, the whole arsenal of

413
00:18:17,050 --> 00:18:19,830
next generation podcasting features is available.

414
00:18:20,370 --> 00:18:22,150
You know, now they, I think they have

415
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:26,130
transcripts, they have a pod role, they support

416
00:18:26,130 --> 00:18:28,850
the GUID tag, they support chapters, they support

417
00:18:28,850 --> 00:18:30,170
a few of these things, but they do

418
00:18:30,170 --> 00:18:32,950
not support all 20 something tags that are,

419
00:18:32,970 --> 00:18:33,730
that are developed.

420
00:18:34,010 --> 00:18:35,410
But every time they do a new cycle,

421
00:18:35,470 --> 00:18:37,370
they have the chance to, and if they

422
00:18:37,370 --> 00:18:39,150
determine it makes sense for them at that

423
00:18:39,150 --> 00:18:40,790
moment, they will pursue it.

424
00:18:41,490 --> 00:18:43,430
And that, and I was thinking about Apple

425
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:46,290
podcast the other day, took them a long

426
00:18:46,290 --> 00:18:49,790
time to adopt their first 2.0 tag,

427
00:18:49,910 --> 00:18:51,070
which was a transcript tag.

428
00:18:51,730 --> 00:18:53,870
It now looks like they're going to probably

429
00:18:53,870 --> 00:18:55,690
adopt the chapters tag as well.

430
00:18:56,490 --> 00:18:58,890
Well, they, they also support the TXT record,

431
00:18:59,190 --> 00:19:02,170
but they, so they support two, it looks,

432
00:19:02,290 --> 00:19:04,190
it looks like they're going to support the

433
00:19:04,190 --> 00:19:04,770
chapters tag.

434
00:19:05,290 --> 00:19:08,970
And I think the way that my impression,

435
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:12,150
and I, you know, Ted may laugh when

436
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:14,250
he hears me discuss, talk about this, but

437
00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:17,750
my impression is that you have to have

438
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:23,010
transcript first because I feel like what they're

439
00:19:23,010 --> 00:19:25,410
going to do with chapters is they are

440
00:19:25,410 --> 00:19:27,030
going to do it similar to the way

441
00:19:27,030 --> 00:19:27,890
they did transcript.

442
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:30,270
They're going to auto-generate chapters for every

443
00:19:30,270 --> 00:19:33,290
podcast based on the transcript.

444
00:19:33,790 --> 00:19:36,150
But then if you bring your own chapter

445
00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:38,090
URL, they're going to support, they're going to

446
00:19:38,090 --> 00:19:39,290
let you override it.

447
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:41,450
That's the same way they did the transcript

448
00:19:41,450 --> 00:19:41,690
tag.

449
00:19:41,710 --> 00:19:43,270
They're going to generate a transcript, but if

450
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:45,910
you bring your own, they'll use that instead.

451
00:19:46,250 --> 00:19:50,050
As long as they have the override automatic.

452
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:52,430
I don't know if they do that for

453
00:19:52,430 --> 00:19:55,930
transcripts yet, because you had to go into

454
00:19:55,930 --> 00:19:59,770
Apple connect and tell them explicitly.

455
00:19:59,950 --> 00:20:01,090
I don't know if that's still the case

456
00:20:01,090 --> 00:20:01,610
or not.

457
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:05,830
I think, yeah, I don't know, but I

458
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:07,250
feel like that's what they're going to do

459
00:20:07,250 --> 00:20:07,490
here.

460
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:09,730
So if that's the case, and there's a

461
00:20:09,730 --> 00:20:11,210
reason I'm kind of laying it all out

462
00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:13,450
like this, if that's the case and they

463
00:20:13,450 --> 00:20:17,850
do, and they auto-generate chapters, you know,

464
00:20:17,890 --> 00:20:23,170
using whatever tools, then you can sort of

465
00:20:23,170 --> 00:20:25,890
reverse engineer and say, okay, they needed transcripts

466
00:20:25,890 --> 00:20:28,870
first because they'll base the chapters on the

467
00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:29,350
transcript.

468
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:31,990
They need the transcript in order to generate

469
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:32,590
the chapters.

470
00:20:33,150 --> 00:20:37,370
So there's your development cycles progressing there.

471
00:20:37,650 --> 00:20:39,670
You have to build this before you can

472
00:20:39,670 --> 00:20:41,490
build this before you can build this.

473
00:20:42,250 --> 00:20:44,810
And that's just the way all of this

474
00:20:44,810 --> 00:20:45,230
works.

475
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:48,870
So that's why when you've come up with

476
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:51,290
a new feature, it can take 10 years

477
00:20:51,290 --> 00:20:52,730
to actually get into production.

478
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:57,890
You know, it, it doesn't, I think, so

479
00:20:57,890 --> 00:21:02,170
like, like we can do things, I can

480
00:21:02,170 --> 00:21:09,090
do things in the index fast because it's

481
00:21:09,090 --> 00:21:09,530
just me.

482
00:21:10,670 --> 00:21:13,590
And James can do things in his stuff

483
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:14,890
fast because it's just him.

484
00:21:15,170 --> 00:21:18,330
We're, we're single or small teams and we

485
00:21:18,330 --> 00:21:20,950
can move quick and make all kinds of

486
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:22,910
changes to our systems.

487
00:21:23,170 --> 00:21:26,650
But the bigger they are, these bigger institutions,

488
00:21:26,650 --> 00:21:28,930
they just, it just takes time because they

489
00:21:28,930 --> 00:21:30,910
have to, they have to develop based on

490
00:21:30,910 --> 00:21:31,470
a strategy.

491
00:21:31,790 --> 00:21:34,750
And the strategy is just, they take multiple

492
00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:37,910
layers in order to come to, you know,

493
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:41,690
something like a stable usable product that can

494
00:21:41,690 --> 00:21:43,630
go out to, you know, millions of people

495
00:21:43,630 --> 00:21:44,170
potentially.

496
00:21:45,550 --> 00:21:48,670
And I still remain that it doesn't all

497
00:21:48,670 --> 00:21:49,630
have to be uniform.

498
00:21:50,030 --> 00:21:53,430
Fountain is what Fountain is because Fountain serves

499
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:55,750
a very specific group currently.

500
00:21:57,150 --> 00:21:59,570
And they're great at serving that group.

501
00:22:00,170 --> 00:22:01,910
And that group uses Fountain.

502
00:22:02,250 --> 00:22:03,230
It's like, that's perfect.

503
00:22:03,470 --> 00:22:06,130
There's no reason why every single app should

504
00:22:06,130 --> 00:22:09,470
have to support Nostr and Bitcoin value for

505
00:22:09,470 --> 00:22:09,950
value.

506
00:22:10,170 --> 00:22:11,530
And there's no reason for it.

507
00:22:11,710 --> 00:22:14,270
In my mind, it's like, that's, that's their

508
00:22:14,270 --> 00:22:15,090
USP.

509
00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:16,750
And it's fantastic.

510
00:22:16,890 --> 00:22:21,390
You know, Podverse started initially as a, as

511
00:22:21,390 --> 00:22:22,190
a clipping tool.

512
00:22:23,170 --> 00:22:24,950
That was the focus, clipping.

513
00:22:25,170 --> 00:22:27,050
And I think accessibility was big for them

514
00:22:27,050 --> 00:22:29,910
as well, which is highly appreciated with our,

515
00:22:29,950 --> 00:22:32,830
with our gunky eyed blind mother, brothers and

516
00:22:32,830 --> 00:22:33,210
sisters.

517
00:22:33,670 --> 00:22:34,550
Yeah, that's right.

518
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:37,010
They really appreciate it.

519
00:22:37,310 --> 00:22:41,050
You know, so, and Overcast, which has, let

520
00:22:41,050 --> 00:22:44,150
me count them, zero podcasting 2.0 features

521
00:22:44,150 --> 00:22:46,750
is adored by its user group.

522
00:22:46,750 --> 00:22:50,550
I think mainly for its sound processing, sound

523
00:22:50,550 --> 00:22:51,170
processing, yeah.

524
00:22:51,170 --> 00:22:54,130
Sound processing and just the, and the UI

525
00:22:54,130 --> 00:22:55,950
or UX or whatever it is.

526
00:22:55,950 --> 00:22:56,190
Yeah.

527
00:22:56,930 --> 00:22:58,910
And it's developer people like him.

528
00:22:58,950 --> 00:23:01,170
And sometimes you, sometimes you use a product

529
00:23:01,170 --> 00:23:02,670
just because you want to support the person

530
00:23:02,670 --> 00:23:05,890
that you have some sort of parasocial relationship

531
00:23:05,890 --> 00:23:06,170
with.

532
00:23:06,190 --> 00:23:06,830
And that's fine too.

533
00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:07,710
Exactly.

534
00:23:08,110 --> 00:23:13,690
And you know, I, the stats are broken

535
00:23:13,690 --> 00:23:17,550
and you know, they're the, we produce stats.

536
00:23:18,970 --> 00:23:22,690
I produced two stats files.

537
00:23:23,170 --> 00:23:25,490
I say produce, they haven't been actually producing

538
00:23:25,490 --> 00:23:26,970
for weeks now.

539
00:23:28,550 --> 00:23:31,570
So there's, what happened is there, let me,

540
00:23:31,610 --> 00:23:32,490
let me just talk about that.

541
00:23:32,510 --> 00:23:34,410
Cause that that's, this is going to tie

542
00:23:34,410 --> 00:23:35,770
into this whole thing.

543
00:23:39,150 --> 00:23:43,550
Stats were stopped working, I think sometime maybe

544
00:23:43,550 --> 00:23:44,350
in September.

545
00:23:44,990 --> 00:23:47,390
So these two, these two JSON files that,

546
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:54,270
that I produce have a lot of baseline

547
00:23:54,270 --> 00:23:57,810
stats about things in the index.

548
00:23:58,290 --> 00:24:01,110
So some are just the high level, how

549
00:24:01,110 --> 00:24:02,690
many shows have published an episode in the

550
00:24:02,690 --> 00:24:05,750
last three days, seven days, 10 days, blah,

551
00:24:05,770 --> 00:24:09,410
blah, others are other stats that it, that

552
00:24:09,410 --> 00:24:12,410
it puts or how many feeds have soundbites,

553
00:24:12,490 --> 00:24:16,250
how many soundbites are there, how many chapters,

554
00:24:16,790 --> 00:24:18,790
how many feeds have chapters, how many episodes

555
00:24:18,790 --> 00:24:20,670
have chapters on and on and on all

556
00:24:20,670 --> 00:24:22,170
the, trying to break down a lot of

557
00:24:22,170 --> 00:24:24,710
useful information about what's in the index without

558
00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:26,030
having to go and query the database.

559
00:24:28,450 --> 00:24:31,810
So the stats broke, James told me, he

560
00:24:31,810 --> 00:24:34,090
said, Hey, you know, heads up, these, the

561
00:24:34,090 --> 00:24:36,090
stats have not updated in a long, the

562
00:24:36,090 --> 00:24:38,330
stats files haven't updated since sometime in September.

563
00:24:39,050 --> 00:24:43,050
So I was like, okay, well, um, I

564
00:24:43,050 --> 00:24:44,090
went and looked at it.

565
00:24:44,270 --> 00:24:47,090
I ran the stats file generation script by

566
00:24:47,090 --> 00:24:50,650
hand and it got to the transcripts tag

567
00:24:50,650 --> 00:24:52,650
and just stuck.

568
00:24:52,970 --> 00:24:53,170
Barfed.

569
00:24:54,050 --> 00:24:58,730
It's, it just hung for half an hour.

570
00:24:59,610 --> 00:25:02,330
Bimro says breaking stats.

571
00:25:04,250 --> 00:25:06,870
You know, you need the little, uh, you

572
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:10,810
need the little, the red alarm lights, flashing

573
00:25:10,810 --> 00:25:11,290
lights.

574
00:25:11,390 --> 00:25:11,550
Yes.

575
00:25:11,650 --> 00:25:12,570
Breaking stats.

576
00:25:12,750 --> 00:25:13,470
Yes, exactly.

577
00:25:13,550 --> 00:25:15,890
That's every other, that's every third post on

578
00:25:15,890 --> 00:25:17,430
Twitter breaking with the real life.

579
00:25:17,530 --> 00:25:17,870
Exactly.

580
00:25:18,590 --> 00:25:23,790
Um, so I ran and I'm like, okay,

581
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:25,450
well this is just, it ran for like

582
00:25:25,450 --> 00:25:27,550
30 minutes and I'm finally, I just control

583
00:25:27,550 --> 00:25:27,850
C.

584
00:25:27,970 --> 00:25:29,490
I'm like, okay, this thing is frozen.

585
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:34,270
Well, it turns out that the explosion of

586
00:25:34,270 --> 00:25:39,610
transcripts in the recent months broke stats.

587
00:25:39,910 --> 00:25:40,010
Ha!

588
00:25:40,590 --> 00:25:42,230
Killed by our own success.

589
00:25:42,890 --> 00:25:43,630
That's right.

590
00:25:43,630 --> 00:25:44,470
There you go.

591
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:45,010
Proof.

592
00:25:45,730 --> 00:25:49,510
So, and, and it broke, here's how, here,

593
00:25:49,730 --> 00:25:51,650
here is the way that it broke.

594
00:25:54,090 --> 00:25:58,010
The stats, the transcripts, the, the NF items

595
00:25:58,010 --> 00:26:02,070
transcript table has currently about seven and a

596
00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:06,070
half million rows in it, which is a

597
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:06,350
lot.

598
00:26:06,790 --> 00:26:10,510
That's as many rows as the entire podcasts

599
00:26:10,510 --> 00:26:10,990
table.

600
00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:12,210
Wow.

601
00:26:13,330 --> 00:26:17,150
And the reason is because some episodes produce

602
00:26:17,150 --> 00:26:20,770
multiple transcripts, sometimes as many as five.

603
00:26:20,970 --> 00:26:23,810
Is that multiple languages or what is that?

604
00:26:25,010 --> 00:26:27,230
Possibly and some, and they're multiple formats.

605
00:26:27,330 --> 00:26:30,250
So you'll have VTT, SRT, TXT, HTML.

606
00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:34,170
You'll have, you'll have sometimes five different formats

607
00:26:34,170 --> 00:26:35,410
in the same episode.

608
00:26:35,670 --> 00:26:39,470
So, you know, if you have a million

609
00:26:39,470 --> 00:26:41,450
episodes with podcasts and they all produce at

610
00:26:41,450 --> 00:26:44,790
least three formats, well then boom, 3 million

611
00:26:44,790 --> 00:26:45,110
rows.

612
00:26:46,110 --> 00:26:49,650
So there's seven, there's over seven, there's like

613
00:26:49,650 --> 00:26:52,770
7.3 million rows in the transcripts table.

614
00:26:54,170 --> 00:26:57,210
And that happened quick.

615
00:26:57,450 --> 00:27:00,090
It went, I mean, it went way up

616
00:27:00,090 --> 00:27:01,090
really fast.

617
00:27:01,730 --> 00:27:02,250
Cool.

618
00:27:03,150 --> 00:27:08,850
And so the way that my SQL database

619
00:27:08,850 --> 00:27:13,110
has what I consider to, it has many

620
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:16,910
flaws, but one of the most annoying is

621
00:27:16,910 --> 00:27:22,050
it's seeming inability to count accurately and quickly

622
00:27:22,050 --> 00:27:23,710
in a table.

623
00:27:24,390 --> 00:27:25,690
It's like an LLM.

624
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:27,390
Exactly.

625
00:27:27,690 --> 00:27:27,890
Yeah.

626
00:27:28,050 --> 00:27:29,690
How many R's are in the word strawberry?

627
00:27:32,010 --> 00:27:38,310
So, um, yes, Eric, the transcript table just

628
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:40,310
tracks the number, you know, like what's in

629
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:42,430
the transcript tag as it comes in.

630
00:27:42,530 --> 00:27:42,650
Yeah.

631
00:27:43,050 --> 00:27:45,330
Uh, the, the URLs to the transcript file.

632
00:27:46,370 --> 00:27:51,290
So going, you know, uh, that's what happened

633
00:27:51,290 --> 00:27:52,230
is trying.

634
00:27:52,330 --> 00:27:55,110
So the way that the, that that table

635
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:58,950
is structured and, and yeah, it, it has

636
00:27:58,950 --> 00:28:00,890
an index on it, Eric, but let me,

637
00:28:00,990 --> 00:28:03,130
I'll tell you what the issue is here.

638
00:28:03,630 --> 00:28:07,630
The issue is that this is, there's a

639
00:28:07,630 --> 00:28:13,830
trade-off between, between like elegance of design

640
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:17,370
and real world needs.

641
00:28:19,550 --> 00:28:24,210
The, the, the elegance part of your, of

642
00:28:24,210 --> 00:28:33,010
the development cycle is you don't want to

643
00:28:33,010 --> 00:28:35,210
duplicate data in multiple tables.

644
00:28:35,910 --> 00:28:39,910
So you have a newsfeeds table in this,

645
00:28:40,110 --> 00:28:41,390
you know, I'll meet, let me speak in

646
00:28:41,390 --> 00:28:43,590
regular language and not freedom controller language.

647
00:28:43,750 --> 00:28:46,830
You have a podcast table, then you have

648
00:28:46,830 --> 00:28:49,570
an episodes table, then you have a transcripts

649
00:28:49,570 --> 00:28:49,810
table.

650
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:50,250
Okay.

651
00:28:50,270 --> 00:28:52,450
I think we all can understand that layout.

652
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:58,650
The podcast, the, the, the podcast table links

653
00:28:58,650 --> 00:29:02,750
to the episode table through a column called

654
00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:03,550
feed ID.

655
00:29:04,490 --> 00:29:07,410
And so you've got a link back to

656
00:29:07,410 --> 00:29:10,010
this, uh, this episode belongs to this podcast,

657
00:29:10,810 --> 00:29:14,990
the transcript table links to the episodes table

658
00:29:14,990 --> 00:29:16,510
on an episode ID.

659
00:29:17,730 --> 00:29:20,130
So now you have this transcript goes with

660
00:29:20,130 --> 00:29:21,030
this episode.

661
00:29:22,870 --> 00:29:25,710
Well, you can walk back, right?

662
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:27,210
You can walk back from the train.

663
00:29:27,250 --> 00:29:29,310
If you want to know what feed that

664
00:29:29,310 --> 00:29:32,270
transcript came from, you can walk back up

665
00:29:32,270 --> 00:29:35,310
the chain and say, this transcript came from

666
00:29:35,310 --> 00:29:37,610
this episode, which came from this podcast.

667
00:29:38,970 --> 00:29:40,570
Well, that's great.

668
00:29:40,690 --> 00:29:43,510
If all you're doing is that sort of

669
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:47,530
work, if you want to actually count how

670
00:29:47,530 --> 00:29:51,930
many feeds, how many podcasts are using the

671
00:29:51,930 --> 00:29:52,890
transcript tag.

672
00:29:52,990 --> 00:29:54,430
Oh, you can't walk at all backwards.

673
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:55,510
That would take forever.

674
00:29:56,530 --> 00:29:57,570
But exactly.

675
00:29:58,350 --> 00:29:58,450
Wow.

676
00:29:58,630 --> 00:29:59,910
I'm a sequel developer.

677
00:30:02,690 --> 00:30:07,090
And so you, what you could do this,

678
00:30:07,210 --> 00:30:09,090
what I was doing before is I was

679
00:30:09,090 --> 00:30:13,690
just grabbing every row out of the transcripts

680
00:30:13,690 --> 00:30:14,030
table.

681
00:30:14,690 --> 00:30:16,770
And then walking it back and finding out

682
00:30:16,770 --> 00:30:18,270
what podcast it belonged to.

683
00:30:18,550 --> 00:30:18,710
Right.

684
00:30:18,750 --> 00:30:19,350
With a join.

685
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:19,990
Yes.

686
00:30:20,010 --> 00:30:20,530
With a join.

687
00:30:20,650 --> 00:30:22,670
And then going through and sorting it all

688
00:30:22,670 --> 00:30:23,430
out.

689
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:25,810
Well, as soon as it gets over a

690
00:30:25,810 --> 00:30:31,810
particular size, then MySQL begins to have to

691
00:30:31,810 --> 00:30:33,230
create a temporary table.

692
00:30:33,330 --> 00:30:35,430
Because what you're counting is the number of

693
00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:38,410
podcasts that use transcripts, not the number of

694
00:30:38,410 --> 00:30:39,790
transcripts.

695
00:30:39,790 --> 00:30:40,250
Right.

696
00:30:40,370 --> 00:30:40,650
Okay.

697
00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:40,930
Got it.

698
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:43,290
And so you can easily solve the how

699
00:30:43,290 --> 00:30:46,650
many episodes use transcripts by doing what's called

700
00:30:46,650 --> 00:30:47,750
a select distinct.

701
00:30:48,170 --> 00:30:54,070
So you can say select, select count distinct

702
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:58,090
ID in the transcripts table.

703
00:30:58,310 --> 00:31:00,250
And that will give you on the distinct

704
00:31:00,250 --> 00:31:01,710
on the episode ID row.

705
00:31:01,810 --> 00:31:04,230
And that will give you how many episodes

706
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:06,350
quickly, it will quickly give you how many

707
00:31:06,350 --> 00:31:08,390
episodes use transcripts.

708
00:31:09,710 --> 00:31:11,670
You, there's no, as soon as you do

709
00:31:11,670 --> 00:31:16,190
a join, you immediately have to create a

710
00:31:16,190 --> 00:31:18,890
temporary table on disk and you're toast.

711
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:21,410
Because the count day you're, I mean, it

712
00:31:21,410 --> 00:31:23,430
could take you 45 minutes to complete that

713
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:23,750
query.

714
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:26,750
And that is just, it's just too, it's

715
00:31:26,750 --> 00:31:27,350
too costly.

716
00:31:28,430 --> 00:31:31,290
And so there's, there's, you have this elegant

717
00:31:31,290 --> 00:31:35,190
design where you're not duplicating data across tables,

718
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:40,150
but that elegance of design harms you because

719
00:31:40,150 --> 00:31:43,430
now it, you can't actually in the real

720
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:46,170
world get the data out that you want.

721
00:31:46,170 --> 00:31:48,850
Can I ask an Adam Curry question?

722
00:31:49,370 --> 00:31:49,730
Sure.

723
00:31:49,970 --> 00:31:51,330
Can I fix this with money?

724
00:31:55,530 --> 00:31:57,370
It's not worth fixing with money.

725
00:31:57,510 --> 00:31:57,650
Okay.

726
00:31:58,450 --> 00:32:03,970
You could technically, you could technically scale way

727
00:32:03,970 --> 00:32:07,130
up and pay ridiculous amounts of money to

728
00:32:07,130 --> 00:32:10,490
get an insane piece of horsepower VM that

729
00:32:10,490 --> 00:32:11,870
would make this go faster.

730
00:32:12,670 --> 00:32:14,890
But it does, it would, it would eventually

731
00:32:14,890 --> 00:32:16,690
drop as well with scale.

732
00:32:16,990 --> 00:32:19,310
You just can't, it's not, that's not the

733
00:32:19,310 --> 00:32:19,990
right solution.

734
00:32:20,590 --> 00:32:23,970
The right solution is to, as a developer,

735
00:32:24,190 --> 00:32:30,390
get over yourself and say, it's not, elegance

736
00:32:30,390 --> 00:32:32,450
is not the, is not the most important

737
00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:32,950
thing here.

738
00:32:33,870 --> 00:32:38,310
What's the most important is to get something

739
00:32:38,310 --> 00:32:38,990
that's usable.

740
00:32:39,650 --> 00:32:42,370
So you get something that works well and

741
00:32:42,370 --> 00:32:44,370
fast for all of the use cases that

742
00:32:44,370 --> 00:32:45,030
you need it to be.

743
00:32:45,510 --> 00:32:46,770
And what that means is I'm going to

744
00:32:46,770 --> 00:32:50,850
have to put another, another column on the

745
00:32:50,850 --> 00:32:52,950
transcripts table that's going to hold, that will

746
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:56,150
hold the podcast ID, the feed ID.

747
00:32:57,450 --> 00:33:01,830
Now that it, that's clearly a duplication of

748
00:33:01,830 --> 00:33:02,130
data.

749
00:33:02,290 --> 00:33:03,450
Now I've got the pod, now I've got

750
00:33:03,450 --> 00:33:07,490
the podcast ID in two places, which, you

751
00:33:07,490 --> 00:33:10,750
know, it doesn't make any, it shouldn't have

752
00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:11,850
to be that way, but it is.

753
00:33:12,930 --> 00:33:17,010
And I've been trying to find, you don't

754
00:33:17,010 --> 00:33:19,130
do changes like this on a production database

755
00:33:19,130 --> 00:33:19,930
without planning.

756
00:33:21,810 --> 00:33:26,130
And so I've been, I've been trying every

757
00:33:26,130 --> 00:33:31,970
SQL trick I can think of to make,

758
00:33:32,730 --> 00:33:34,470
to avoid having to do this.

759
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:36,030
And I can't, it's just not going to

760
00:33:36,030 --> 00:33:36,350
work.

761
00:33:36,730 --> 00:33:38,830
So now in the last couple of days,

762
00:33:38,910 --> 00:33:40,390
I've decided I'm going to have to make

763
00:33:40,390 --> 00:33:41,110
this change.

764
00:33:41,630 --> 00:33:42,690
I'm going to have to make this schema

765
00:33:42,690 --> 00:33:43,830
change on the database.

766
00:33:45,550 --> 00:33:47,650
And which is going to be a, it's

767
00:33:47,650 --> 00:33:49,190
going to be a three-step process.

768
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:53,950
It's going to be number one, add a

769
00:33:53,950 --> 00:33:55,750
column to the transcripts table.

770
00:33:55,890 --> 00:33:58,610
Now remember, the key to all this is

771
00:33:58,610 --> 00:34:00,890
the transcript table has seven and a half

772
00:34:00,890 --> 00:34:01,630
million rows.

773
00:34:02,510 --> 00:34:03,750
So it's not small.

774
00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:05,890
Now it's, it's not gargantuan.

775
00:34:06,330 --> 00:34:08,750
It's not like the episodes table, which has

776
00:34:08,750 --> 00:34:10,330
170 million rows.

777
00:34:11,210 --> 00:34:13,989
But it is, but it's big enough to

778
00:34:13,989 --> 00:34:15,510
where it is a problem.

779
00:34:16,110 --> 00:34:19,590
If you lock, if you lock the table,

780
00:34:20,010 --> 00:34:23,290
because if you lock the table, everything stops.

781
00:34:24,350 --> 00:34:30,710
No API requests, no aggregators, everything halts for

782
00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:32,429
the duration of that table lock.

783
00:34:33,230 --> 00:34:37,969
Because there's relation, there's foreign key constraints across

784
00:34:37,969 --> 00:34:38,810
these tables.

785
00:34:39,110 --> 00:34:40,949
And when you lock, when you lock a

786
00:34:40,949 --> 00:34:42,489
table that has a foreign key constraint, it

787
00:34:42,489 --> 00:34:43,650
locks it all the way up the chain.

788
00:34:44,730 --> 00:34:46,530
So there's going to be, you have to

789
00:34:46,530 --> 00:34:48,170
do it, do it in three steps.

790
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:51,150
Step one is going to be adding a

791
00:34:51,150 --> 00:34:54,330
column using the instant algorithm with my SQL.

792
00:34:54,350 --> 00:34:55,850
I've done this before with other tables.

793
00:34:55,989 --> 00:34:57,670
It's, I know how to do it, but

794
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:58,750
it does take planning.

795
00:34:59,590 --> 00:35:03,230
Um, you add it with instant algorithm and

796
00:35:03,230 --> 00:35:06,530
with no foreign key constraints initially, and then

797
00:35:06,530 --> 00:35:07,970
you add a nullable column.

798
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:10,530
And so everything comes in there, null, stop

799
00:35:10,530 --> 00:35:13,170
after that test, make sure nothing is broken.

800
00:35:14,610 --> 00:35:17,750
Once you do that, uh, you go in

801
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:20,030
and you, I'll write a script that will

802
00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:25,810
backfill all the rows in that transcripts table

803
00:35:25,810 --> 00:35:28,490
with the appropriate feed IDs.

804
00:35:30,190 --> 00:35:34,010
Then step three, add the foreign key constraint

805
00:35:34,010 --> 00:35:38,770
to connect the, uh, to relate the feed

806
00:35:38,770 --> 00:35:41,770
ID column on the transcripts table to the

807
00:35:41,770 --> 00:35:42,970
podcasts table.

808
00:35:44,690 --> 00:35:47,610
Um, so you, you, you do it in

809
00:35:47,610 --> 00:35:49,790
that order because you'll have, because if you

810
00:35:49,790 --> 00:35:53,070
try to, if you try to, I have

811
00:35:53,070 --> 00:35:55,170
not had very much success trying to add

812
00:35:55,170 --> 00:35:57,430
it all at once, even though it should

813
00:35:57,430 --> 00:35:58,330
technically work.

814
00:35:58,750 --> 00:36:01,570
I don't, I've not, I have seen my

815
00:36:01,570 --> 00:36:05,810
SQL eight fall back to an in-place

816
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:08,710
locking table change, even when you give it

817
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:09,650
the instant algorithm.

818
00:36:10,670 --> 00:36:12,570
So if you try to do it for

819
00:36:12,570 --> 00:36:14,750
a key constraint that it doesn't, that is

820
00:36:14,750 --> 00:36:15,490
not simplistic.

821
00:36:16,210 --> 00:36:21,510
Um, so anyway, that's, that's what stats are

822
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:22,710
broken because of that.

823
00:36:23,350 --> 00:36:23,830
Wow.

824
00:36:24,110 --> 00:36:25,810
So that's, that's great as a part of

825
00:36:25,810 --> 00:36:26,510
the conversation.

826
00:36:26,510 --> 00:36:28,690
As I said, it's broken because of the

827
00:36:28,690 --> 00:36:30,050
success of transcripts.

828
00:36:30,070 --> 00:36:31,990
This is kind of good news.

829
00:36:33,950 --> 00:36:35,870
You know, I don't know if you remember,

830
00:36:35,930 --> 00:36:37,130
we talked about it at the time, but

831
00:36:37,130 --> 00:36:41,090
there was a, uh, Lex Friedman did an

832
00:36:41,090 --> 00:36:46,350
interview with John Carmack and you know, John

833
00:36:46,350 --> 00:36:46,930
Carmack, right?

834
00:36:47,170 --> 00:36:49,870
The developer, they created Doom and Quake.

835
00:36:50,250 --> 00:36:50,550
Oh yes.

836
00:36:50,670 --> 00:36:50,910
Okay.

837
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:51,230
Sure.

838
00:36:52,110 --> 00:36:52,550
Yeah.

839
00:36:52,670 --> 00:36:54,470
And he, and he said in that, uh,

840
00:36:55,690 --> 00:36:58,130
uh, yes, Eric, there is a lot of

841
00:36:58,130 --> 00:36:59,510
exceptions to the instant algorithm.

842
00:36:59,650 --> 00:36:59,810
Yeah.

843
00:36:59,810 --> 00:37:03,370
It's, it's very hit or miss, but, uh,

844
00:37:03,450 --> 00:37:06,230
Carmack at the time, um, in that interview,

845
00:37:06,250 --> 00:37:09,290
he said that he was a big fan

846
00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:11,450
of hard limits on things.

847
00:37:12,570 --> 00:37:15,470
So when you're writing, when he writes software,

848
00:37:15,870 --> 00:37:17,790
he'll put in some limit.

849
00:37:17,790 --> 00:37:19,950
Like if he thinks that this thing could

850
00:37:19,950 --> 00:37:26,650
probably handle, um, a million, whatever's a million

851
00:37:26,650 --> 00:37:29,550
transactions, uh, you know, I don't know, we're

852
00:37:29,550 --> 00:37:30,410
making up stuff here.

853
00:37:31,010 --> 00:37:32,890
Then he would put in a hard limit

854
00:37:32,890 --> 00:37:37,830
of like 750,000 in the code, just

855
00:37:37,830 --> 00:37:39,470
a number in the code.

856
00:37:41,230 --> 00:37:44,610
And that way, when he hits that number,

857
00:37:46,150 --> 00:37:47,770
the key knows that the code's going to

858
00:37:47,770 --> 00:37:50,470
break, but he'll, it'll be, it's like a

859
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:53,710
way point to say, okay, I thought that

860
00:37:53,710 --> 00:37:56,210
this could do, I thought this particular metric

861
00:37:56,210 --> 00:38:01,390
was achievable and we've gotten there and it's,

862
00:38:01,710 --> 00:38:02,810
how did it go?

863
00:38:03,410 --> 00:38:03,530
Right.

864
00:38:03,690 --> 00:38:06,410
Is it broke or did we never even

865
00:38:06,410 --> 00:38:07,650
get there because it broke?

866
00:38:08,350 --> 00:38:11,030
And I think that that's kind of similar

867
00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:12,830
to what's going on here.

868
00:38:13,610 --> 00:38:16,450
We have some, we have some metrics that

869
00:38:16,450 --> 00:38:21,750
we're hitting that actually are important.

870
00:38:22,130 --> 00:38:24,950
They, they mean, they mean things.

871
00:38:26,430 --> 00:38:30,090
Um, they mean that, you know, the, that

872
00:38:30,090 --> 00:38:32,050
the index doesn't just exist on its own.

873
00:38:32,110 --> 00:38:33,690
That means that there's a person behind it

874
00:38:33,690 --> 00:38:35,310
who's having to actually make changes when this

875
00:38:35,310 --> 00:38:36,350
stuff gets popular.

876
00:38:38,610 --> 00:38:41,810
And we try to, we're probably a pretty

877
00:38:41,810 --> 00:38:44,450
good canary in the coal mine because our,

878
00:38:44,510 --> 00:38:46,110
I mean, our directory is bigger than Apple's.

879
00:38:46,190 --> 00:38:47,750
It's bigger than, I guess it's bigger than

880
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:48,410
everybody's.

881
00:38:48,450 --> 00:38:49,070
It's huge.

882
00:38:49,890 --> 00:38:50,750
It's huge.

883
00:38:51,490 --> 00:38:56,710
Um, and so we're, you know, when things

884
00:38:56,710 --> 00:39:00,010
break and when they break, it means that

885
00:39:00,010 --> 00:39:01,490
we have to stop.

886
00:39:01,490 --> 00:39:03,150
That's a good time to stop and say,

887
00:39:03,290 --> 00:39:07,150
okay, well, is it, is everything working?

888
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:07,470
Okay.

889
00:39:07,530 --> 00:39:08,870
Do we need to change things?

890
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:11,070
And that's the mental process I've been going

891
00:39:11,070 --> 00:39:13,090
on going through for the last couple of

892
00:39:13,090 --> 00:39:14,910
weeks is trying to sort of figure this

893
00:39:14,910 --> 00:39:15,290
out.

894
00:39:16,850 --> 00:39:18,850
Um, and these are the, this is what

895
00:39:18,850 --> 00:39:24,290
I meant earlier by, you can't expect out

896
00:39:24,290 --> 00:39:29,510
of an open source project, consistent, like unreasonable

897
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:30,690
levels of output.

898
00:39:31,830 --> 00:39:33,490
Because when you only, you know, when you

899
00:39:33,490 --> 00:39:36,410
have a loose affiliation of people that are

900
00:39:36,410 --> 00:39:40,570
working on things, um, it takes time.

901
00:39:41,090 --> 00:39:42,990
It takes time to, to, to reason through

902
00:39:42,990 --> 00:39:46,050
these things and make, and not just willy

903
00:39:46,050 --> 00:39:47,950
nilly push to production, you know, you have

904
00:39:47,950 --> 00:39:49,050
to figure this stuff out.

905
00:39:49,550 --> 00:39:53,010
And once there's, it's not just, it's not

906
00:39:53,010 --> 00:39:54,030
just this as well.

907
00:39:54,030 --> 00:39:56,770
I mean, we, I'm hoping to have, um,

908
00:39:57,150 --> 00:39:59,090
uh, Archie on the show.

909
00:39:59,210 --> 00:40:00,330
I need to reach back out to him,

910
00:40:00,350 --> 00:40:04,410
uh, in email, uh, Archie helps, uh, Podverse

911
00:40:04,410 --> 00:40:06,250
a lot with their database stuff and infrastructure.

912
00:40:06,730 --> 00:40:08,010
And I want to have him on the

913
00:40:08,010 --> 00:40:10,150
show to talk about open sourcing the index

914
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:13,050
even more and maybe redesigning our database.

915
00:40:13,350 --> 00:40:18,290
Some who's Archie, uh, he's on a podcast

916
00:40:18,290 --> 00:40:20,490
index dot social as SUCD.

917
00:40:20,610 --> 00:40:21,070
Oh, okay.

918
00:40:21,190 --> 00:40:21,450
Yes.

919
00:40:21,830 --> 00:40:22,130
Yeah.

920
00:40:22,970 --> 00:40:24,410
Um, yeah, it seems like a nice guy

921
00:40:24,410 --> 00:40:26,630
and, uh, I want to get him on

922
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:26,970
the show.

923
00:40:27,050 --> 00:40:30,270
He's, uh, to, he's been at, he's been

924
00:40:30,270 --> 00:40:31,190
asking for a while.

925
00:40:31,210 --> 00:40:32,350
He's like, Hey, can I help you all?

926
00:40:32,410 --> 00:40:33,570
You know, I'd be glad to get in

927
00:40:33,570 --> 00:40:36,710
and do some infrastructure work and be glad,

928
00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:37,550
you know, glad to help.

929
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:39,930
And so, uh, I just want to see

930
00:40:39,930 --> 00:40:40,830
if he wants to get on the show

931
00:40:40,830 --> 00:40:42,270
and we, it'd be a good opportunity to

932
00:40:42,270 --> 00:40:47,150
just talk out how can we make the

933
00:40:47,150 --> 00:40:51,610
index be more, uh, managed by the community.

934
00:40:53,370 --> 00:40:57,130
Um, because rather than trying to kind of

935
00:40:57,130 --> 00:40:59,530
figure all this stuff out myself in isolation,

936
00:40:59,530 --> 00:41:01,150
it would be helpful to talk this out

937
00:41:01,150 --> 00:41:03,810
and in the, you know, in the podcasting

938
00:41:03,810 --> 00:41:07,710
2.0 group and get pull requests and

939
00:41:07,710 --> 00:41:09,710
that kind of thing for more than just

940
00:41:09,710 --> 00:41:10,310
the website.

941
00:41:11,330 --> 00:41:11,810
Excellent.

942
00:41:12,410 --> 00:41:12,890
Yeah.

943
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:14,710
So I think it's, all of this wraps

944
00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:18,350
up into, you know, the broader discussion of

945
00:41:18,350 --> 00:41:21,950
just, you know, we're an open source project

946
00:41:21,950 --> 00:41:24,910
and James is part of it.

947
00:41:24,970 --> 00:41:25,610
Sam's part of it.

948
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:28,790
We're, we're all in this together and Justin

949
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:30,450
and I, and the PSP and everything.

950
00:41:30,990 --> 00:41:32,610
We're all, we're all a part of this

951
00:41:32,610 --> 00:41:35,570
and there's just going to be some, um,

952
00:41:35,590 --> 00:41:36,970
there's going to be ebbs and flows of

953
00:41:36,970 --> 00:41:37,410
activity.

954
00:41:37,410 --> 00:41:39,310
And I, I don't, I don't want to

955
00:41:39,310 --> 00:41:40,710
try to push it to be more than

956
00:41:40,710 --> 00:41:42,170
that because I think if you try to

957
00:41:42,170 --> 00:41:44,250
push the, put the pedal to the floor

958
00:41:44,250 --> 00:41:49,370
and expect constant output, I think it that

959
00:41:49,370 --> 00:41:55,370
people will just get tired and leave and,

960
00:41:55,370 --> 00:41:57,530
and, and move on to other things.

961
00:41:57,530 --> 00:41:59,190
And I just don't want that to happen.

962
00:42:00,270 --> 00:42:01,330
I'm with you.

963
00:42:01,870 --> 00:42:05,370
And I want to give big props to

964
00:42:05,370 --> 00:42:11,510
Chad F who continues tirelessly to work on

965
00:42:11,510 --> 00:42:13,510
wallet solutions.

966
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:17,430
And he's, I was blown away.

967
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:22,970
He built this Vercel app for V4V music

968
00:42:22,970 --> 00:42:25,330
with the Breeze SDK.

969
00:42:26,830 --> 00:42:30,250
And I'm really impressed by all of this.

970
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:33,010
And I'm actually quite impressed with the Breeze

971
00:42:33,010 --> 00:42:35,890
SDK because they have a Vercel demo.

972
00:42:37,070 --> 00:42:40,570
And I created a wallet within three seconds.

973
00:42:41,210 --> 00:42:45,210
And in fact, I changed our, um, our

974
00:42:45,210 --> 00:42:49,090
splits because people have been saying, Hey, you

975
00:42:49,090 --> 00:42:53,050
guys want LN URL, but you're using keysend.

976
00:42:53,790 --> 00:42:56,290
So I changed our splits and it's currently

977
00:42:56,290 --> 00:43:00,170
going into a Breeze just on the web,

978
00:43:00,230 --> 00:43:02,870
just a Breeze Vercel app, demo app wallet.

979
00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:04,090
And it's working fine.

980
00:43:05,730 --> 00:43:07,530
It's just, it's, it's working.

981
00:43:08,310 --> 00:43:09,370
Just popped it up.

982
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:10,930
Chad, Chad's going to be on the show

983
00:43:10,930 --> 00:43:11,370
next week.

984
00:43:11,630 --> 00:43:12,590
Good, good.

985
00:43:13,050 --> 00:43:15,790
Now, of course, there's no metadata coming through.

986
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:18,510
So I still have 1% going to

987
00:43:18,510 --> 00:43:21,290
my helipad and actually I'll have to send

988
00:43:21,290 --> 00:43:24,850
whatever comes in so far, a whopping 1

989
00:43:24,850 --> 00:43:26,530
,342 sats.

990
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:30,210
Whatever comes in, I'm going to send to

991
00:43:30,210 --> 00:43:36,090
Barry's wallet because somehow I made a copy

992
00:43:36,090 --> 00:43:38,470
paste mistake when I released the last episode.

993
00:43:39,010 --> 00:43:41,490
And it was, uh, I forgot the T

994
00:43:41,490 --> 00:43:44,230
at the end of .NET. So he missed

995
00:43:44,230 --> 00:43:45,370
out on some Instagrams.

996
00:43:45,690 --> 00:43:47,030
So I'll send this to him.

997
00:43:48,110 --> 00:43:50,970
But it's amazing how well this works.

998
00:43:51,150 --> 00:43:54,410
And even the, and of course I still

999
00:43:54,410 --> 00:43:57,050
have to talk to Graham over at Voltage

1000
00:43:57,050 --> 00:43:59,330
since we can't seem to set up, uh,

1001
00:43:59,530 --> 00:44:02,910
um, anything on top of our node, any

1002
00:44:02,910 --> 00:44:04,770
kind, anything that'll do LN URL.

1003
00:44:04,770 --> 00:44:06,590
I can't set it up because it just

1004
00:44:06,590 --> 00:44:08,750
breaks the minute, uh, the minute I activate

1005
00:44:08,750 --> 00:44:14,870
it due to our humongous girth, I guess,

1006
00:44:15,050 --> 00:44:18,470
or whatever we may be running on special.

1007
00:44:18,590 --> 00:44:20,070
I, I, I always had the feeling he's

1008
00:44:20,070 --> 00:44:22,370
got like five servers running just to serve

1009
00:44:22,370 --> 00:44:23,390
the podcast index.

1010
00:44:23,450 --> 00:44:24,010
I don't know.

1011
00:44:24,510 --> 00:44:26,270
You know, I don't, I don't know how

1012
00:44:26,270 --> 00:44:27,970
he, it's always a special case.

1013
00:44:27,970 --> 00:44:30,050
He's always taken very, very, very good care

1014
00:44:30,050 --> 00:44:30,510
of us.

1015
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:31,710
He has, yes.

1016
00:44:31,710 --> 00:44:33,030
Downtime zero.

1017
00:44:33,410 --> 00:44:34,930
As far as I can tell, we never

1018
00:44:34,930 --> 00:44:36,710
had down except when we had to reboot

1019
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:39,810
the node for an update downtime, seven hours,

1020
00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:40,330
but okay.

1021
00:44:40,970 --> 00:44:41,470
Yeah.

1022
00:44:42,170 --> 00:44:43,070
All night.

1023
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:44,910
Minor, minor thing, minor thing.

1024
00:44:45,570 --> 00:44:48,690
Um, but it is, it's beautiful to see

1025
00:44:48,690 --> 00:44:50,910
because you, you see that, you know, this

1026
00:44:50,910 --> 00:44:53,670
type of solution, which can easily be baked

1027
00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:54,930
into any app.

1028
00:44:55,390 --> 00:44:55,630
Yeah.

1029
00:44:55,630 --> 00:44:56,970
You don't have your onboarding.

1030
00:44:56,970 --> 00:44:58,710
You don't have your buy sats and all

1031
00:44:58,710 --> 00:45:02,410
this stuff, but they're already doing liquid, which

1032
00:45:02,410 --> 00:45:05,270
is, I don't even know.

1033
00:45:05,350 --> 00:45:07,270
I don't even understand liquid very well, but

1034
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:10,610
it's not really even a layer two solution

1035
00:45:10,610 --> 00:45:12,830
at some mystical other thing.

1036
00:45:13,310 --> 00:45:13,530
Side chain.

1037
00:45:13,610 --> 00:45:15,290
I thought it was a side chain between

1038
00:45:15,290 --> 00:45:17,470
two that I thought it was a side

1039
00:45:17,470 --> 00:45:20,230
chain that, that exchanges used between themselves.

1040
00:45:20,370 --> 00:45:20,750
Yeah.

1041
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:23,430
But it's not like a settlement on chain

1042
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:25,270
is I'm not sure what it is, but

1043
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:27,470
I'm sure that breeze will be doing any

1044
00:45:27,470 --> 00:45:29,310
other type of system that comes along.

1045
00:45:29,390 --> 00:45:30,950
I just have that general feeling.

1046
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:33,710
Did you, did you see that arc launched?

1047
00:45:34,250 --> 00:45:34,970
What's arc?

1048
00:45:35,530 --> 00:45:37,950
That was the, that's the competitor to lightning.

1049
00:45:38,090 --> 00:45:39,290
That's the other layer two.

1050
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:40,470
No, I didn't.

1051
00:45:40,530 --> 00:45:41,050
I didn't.

1052
00:45:41,110 --> 00:45:41,850
I didn't.

1053
00:45:41,950 --> 00:45:43,250
What, what, what are their, what are their

1054
00:45:43,250 --> 00:45:43,770
benefits?

1055
00:45:43,890 --> 00:45:45,150
What do they have in arc?

1056
00:45:45,850 --> 00:45:46,530
Let's see.

1057
00:45:46,610 --> 00:45:48,370
Arc layer two, the big, I think the,

1058
00:45:48,490 --> 00:45:50,830
the arc protocol, I think the biggest benefit

1059
00:45:50,830 --> 00:45:53,190
with it was, um, off chain receive.

1060
00:45:53,970 --> 00:45:55,910
Oh, I mean, I'm sorry.

1061
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:57,570
Not off chain, uh, offline receive.

1062
00:45:57,870 --> 00:45:58,370
Offline receive.

1063
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:58,630
Yeah.

1064
00:45:58,770 --> 00:45:59,630
Oh, very cool.

1065
00:46:01,170 --> 00:46:03,730
Um, I wonder how it does that.

1066
00:46:04,430 --> 00:46:04,910
Yeah.

1067
00:46:05,050 --> 00:46:07,530
Arc layer arc is layer two protocol for

1068
00:46:07,530 --> 00:46:09,250
making off chain Bitcoin transactions.

1069
00:46:10,830 --> 00:46:13,370
Uh, we talked about it at the time

1070
00:46:13,370 --> 00:46:18,010
and I remember it actually, it made a

1071
00:46:18,010 --> 00:46:19,910
lot of sense when we went over it.

1072
00:46:20,610 --> 00:46:23,350
Uh, the arc, see arc protocols built around

1073
00:46:23,350 --> 00:46:26,930
shared UTXOs while lightning also uses shared UTXOs.

1074
00:46:27,350 --> 00:46:27,450
Okay.

1075
00:46:27,450 --> 00:46:27,770
I got it.

1076
00:46:27,970 --> 00:46:30,050
They're only shared between two channel catapult and

1077
00:46:30,050 --> 00:46:32,090
arc UTXOs are shared among a large number

1078
00:46:32,090 --> 00:46:33,890
of users, potentially hundreds of thousands.

1079
00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:34,550
Hmm.

1080
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:38,870
Oh, um, sounds a bit like a cashew

1081
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:41,210
thing in a way, in an odd kind

1082
00:46:41,210 --> 00:46:41,510
of way.

1083
00:46:41,930 --> 00:46:42,370
Yeah.

1084
00:46:42,370 --> 00:46:44,070
I remember when we went over it on

1085
00:46:44,070 --> 00:46:47,370
the show, it makes like seeing how they

1086
00:46:47,370 --> 00:46:48,630
did it made a lot of sense.

1087
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:49,710
I was actually pretty.

1088
00:46:50,290 --> 00:46:52,090
Oh, I remember this is where you could

1089
00:46:52,090 --> 00:46:52,310
eat.

1090
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:54,010
You can basically email somebody.

1091
00:46:55,350 --> 00:46:56,310
I think so.

1092
00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:56,630
Yeah.

1093
00:46:56,770 --> 00:46:57,270
I think so.

1094
00:46:58,410 --> 00:46:58,830
Interesting.

1095
00:46:59,570 --> 00:46:59,990
See.

1096
00:47:01,230 --> 00:47:01,650
Yeah.

1097
00:47:01,690 --> 00:47:02,830
I don't, I'm sorry.

1098
00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:04,410
I don't remember much about it, but I

1099
00:47:04,410 --> 00:47:05,150
did see it launched.

1100
00:47:05,230 --> 00:47:07,010
I expected it to just be kind of

1101
00:47:07,010 --> 00:47:09,330
like a, a failed, you know, like an

1102
00:47:09,330 --> 00:47:11,830
idea that never You mean like, like podcasting

1103
00:47:11,830 --> 00:47:12,930
2.0 basically.

1104
00:47:14,770 --> 00:47:15,190
PSP.

1105
00:47:16,170 --> 00:47:19,510
You know, one more thing on that.

1106
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:24,010
We, as an open source project that just

1107
00:47:24,010 --> 00:47:25,890
came out, you know, just kind of grew

1108
00:47:25,890 --> 00:47:28,070
up out of nowhere.

1109
00:47:28,590 --> 00:47:31,010
You can't argue that we have not been

1110
00:47:31,010 --> 00:47:31,610
successful.

1111
00:47:32,190 --> 00:47:32,570
Exactly.

1112
00:47:33,630 --> 00:47:34,410
I mean, wow.

1113
00:47:34,530 --> 00:47:37,090
I mean, we have a self-sustaining open

1114
00:47:37,090 --> 00:47:40,550
source project, self-sustaining by the users and

1115
00:47:40,550 --> 00:47:41,310
stakeholders.

1116
00:47:41,790 --> 00:47:43,790
I don't know if that's ever been done.

1117
00:47:46,130 --> 00:47:50,650
It, the, the growth, the growth first mindset,

1118
00:47:50,870 --> 00:47:53,530
just, I don't know.

1119
00:47:53,850 --> 00:47:57,410
It, it, it kills, it kills momentum.

1120
00:47:58,090 --> 00:47:59,910
Oh, this is a, this is the philosopher,

1121
00:48:00,090 --> 00:48:00,390
Dave.

1122
00:48:00,490 --> 00:48:02,610
You've been, you've been posting stuff about this.

1123
00:48:02,810 --> 00:48:05,250
The growth, the growth mindset.

1124
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:05,950
I guess I did.

1125
00:48:06,070 --> 00:48:06,710
Yes, you did.

1126
00:48:06,830 --> 00:48:07,510
Yes, you did.

1127
00:48:07,710 --> 00:48:07,870
Yeah.

1128
00:48:07,870 --> 00:48:12,350
I'm reading Wendell Berry's book called Life is

1129
00:48:12,350 --> 00:48:12,930
a Miracle.

1130
00:48:13,790 --> 00:48:15,890
An essay on modern superstition.

1131
00:48:17,810 --> 00:48:19,670
And this is the book that you will

1132
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:21,110
be getting as your Christmas present this year.

1133
00:48:21,330 --> 00:48:21,890
So don't buy it.

1134
00:48:22,190 --> 00:48:23,410
You ruined it.

1135
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:27,870
I already have your Christmas present picked out,

1136
00:48:28,130 --> 00:48:29,510
but I'm not going to tell you what

1137
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:29,810
it is.

1138
00:48:29,890 --> 00:48:30,230
Yes.

1139
00:48:30,290 --> 00:48:32,390
Because I received something.

1140
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:33,550
I'm like, oh, I got to send this

1141
00:48:33,550 --> 00:48:33,890
to Dave.

1142
00:48:34,650 --> 00:48:35,290
Oh, nice.

1143
00:48:35,490 --> 00:48:36,070
Thank you, brother.

1144
00:48:36,070 --> 00:48:42,970
But that, this is, um, he goes off

1145
00:48:42,970 --> 00:48:43,710
on...

1146
00:48:43,710 --> 00:48:45,430
By the way, you're the only other person

1147
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:46,890
in my life who I give a Christmas

1148
00:48:46,890 --> 00:48:47,690
gift to.

1149
00:48:48,450 --> 00:48:51,070
I mean, besides my, my kids and my

1150
00:48:51,070 --> 00:48:51,590
wife.

1151
00:48:52,310 --> 00:48:56,930
Oh, that's, I'm like, I'm in a rarefied

1152
00:48:56,930 --> 00:48:57,190
air.

1153
00:49:00,330 --> 00:49:00,930
Yes.

1154
00:49:01,050 --> 00:49:01,310
Yes.

1155
00:49:01,310 --> 00:49:02,670
It's very rare up here.

1156
00:49:02,790 --> 00:49:04,250
You just roasted my chestnuts.

1157
00:49:05,010 --> 00:49:05,530
Bring...

1158
00:49:13,430 --> 00:49:16,730
So the, what, one of the things that

1159
00:49:16,730 --> 00:49:21,670
he mentions in there is, you know, we

1160
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:25,650
didn't see the earth for fully for the

1161
00:49:25,650 --> 00:49:31,130
first time when, uh, when, when astronauts went

1162
00:49:31,130 --> 00:49:32,830
to space and started taking the pictures of

1163
00:49:32,830 --> 00:49:34,690
the big blue orb hanging in the blackness,

1164
00:49:35,770 --> 00:49:39,850
we, we, we saw the earth, artists saw

1165
00:49:39,850 --> 00:49:42,510
the earth from the first, you know, centuries

1166
00:49:42,510 --> 00:49:48,830
before, um, through poetry and through, uh, philosophy.

1167
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:54,770
He quotes Dante and we just, we, we

1168
00:49:54,770 --> 00:49:56,870
just forget that we have a, we have

1169
00:49:56,870 --> 00:50:01,390
sort of a, um, a physical, a very

1170
00:50:01,390 --> 00:50:02,770
physicalist mindset.

1171
00:50:03,690 --> 00:50:04,170
Physicalist?

1172
00:50:04,810 --> 00:50:05,170
Yeah.

1173
00:50:05,290 --> 00:50:07,890
You know, like, like, uh, if it's not,

1174
00:50:08,110 --> 00:50:10,010
if it's not a, um, if it's not

1175
00:50:10,010 --> 00:50:12,550
material, we don't, it's not, it's not real.

1176
00:50:12,930 --> 00:50:13,410
Okay.

1177
00:50:13,530 --> 00:50:13,850
Yeah.

1178
00:50:14,590 --> 00:50:18,370
And we forget that we've seen...

1179
00:50:18,930 --> 00:50:21,270
Science is just one part of the human

1180
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:21,990
experience.

1181
00:50:22,350 --> 00:50:24,330
It's not every, it's not all of it.

1182
00:50:25,290 --> 00:50:32,250
And we, we make ourselves poorer, you know,

1183
00:50:32,270 --> 00:50:39,070
spiritually by taking one aspect of human life

1184
00:50:39,070 --> 00:50:42,170
and putting it over all else, whether that

1185
00:50:42,170 --> 00:50:48,850
be economics, you know, uh, philosophy, the, you

1186
00:50:48,850 --> 00:50:50,570
know, the sciences, the hard sciences.

1187
00:50:51,250 --> 00:50:55,270
We, we need as, as Westerners, we have

1188
00:50:55,270 --> 00:50:59,870
a, we, we only use one half of

1189
00:50:59,870 --> 00:51:01,450
our brain really most of the time.

1190
00:51:01,890 --> 00:51:03,510
Some people use much less, I found.

1191
00:51:03,890 --> 00:51:06,270
Some people only use one quadrant.

1192
00:51:06,530 --> 00:51:06,790
That's right.

1193
00:51:07,070 --> 00:51:07,470
That's right.

1194
00:51:08,210 --> 00:51:11,030
Um, you know, but we really have, um,

1195
00:51:11,650 --> 00:51:15,890
we really have a, a physicalist growth at

1196
00:51:15,890 --> 00:51:21,310
all costs mindset, uh, the, the capitalist urge

1197
00:51:21,310 --> 00:51:26,190
and, you know, capitalism is fine.

1198
00:51:26,250 --> 00:51:27,330
It's just the worst.

1199
00:51:27,630 --> 00:51:30,670
It's just the best of, it's the best

1200
00:51:30,670 --> 00:51:32,330
of all the worst systems.

1201
00:51:33,050 --> 00:51:35,650
Everything else, capitalism is fine.

1202
00:51:36,010 --> 00:51:37,830
It's just that everything else sucks worse.

1203
00:51:38,310 --> 00:51:40,630
It doesn't mean that it's actually perfect in

1204
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:42,010
any way, shape, form, or fashion.

1205
00:51:42,010 --> 00:51:45,650
And the, the one cost that it comes

1206
00:51:45,650 --> 00:51:49,750
with is just this perpetual never ending growth

1207
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:50,890
at all costs mindset.

1208
00:51:52,170 --> 00:51:56,670
And the, and it elevates the, you know,

1209
00:51:56,830 --> 00:52:01,910
the, it elevates the materialist, uh, outcome based

1210
00:52:01,910 --> 00:52:03,390
model above everything else.

1211
00:52:03,390 --> 00:52:04,750
And I just think that that has been,

1212
00:52:04,830 --> 00:52:05,930
and we apply it to everything.

1213
00:52:05,970 --> 00:52:08,470
We apply it to every aspect of our

1214
00:52:08,470 --> 00:52:08,710
life.

1215
00:52:08,710 --> 00:52:12,150
It's an urge within us in the West.

1216
00:52:12,250 --> 00:52:15,010
And we just can't like, it's an infection.

1217
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:17,550
And I think that it comes out in

1218
00:52:17,550 --> 00:52:19,590
these kinds of ways too.

1219
00:52:20,110 --> 00:52:20,470
Yes.

1220
00:52:20,510 --> 00:52:21,810
The number must go up.

1221
00:52:22,070 --> 00:52:22,890
It can never go down.

1222
00:52:24,310 --> 00:52:25,390
Number go up.

1223
00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:27,330
That is just all we care about.

1224
00:52:28,190 --> 00:52:29,410
And you know what?

1225
00:52:29,450 --> 00:52:31,070
I mean, sometimes when the number goes up,

1226
00:52:31,310 --> 00:52:32,290
your database breaks.

1227
00:52:33,570 --> 00:52:34,050
Precisely.

1228
00:52:34,370 --> 00:52:35,410
You break shit.

1229
00:52:35,670 --> 00:52:37,510
I mean, like it's, it's not, it's sometimes

1230
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:40,950
it's not, it's not fun to go for

1231
00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:43,870
the number to go up, but, but I

1232
00:52:43,870 --> 00:52:46,150
just think that we, sometimes you build something,

1233
00:52:46,990 --> 00:52:49,770
you some, sometimes you build something just because

1234
00:52:49,770 --> 00:52:53,750
it's beautiful or just because it's meaningful or

1235
00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:54,990
just because it's useful.

1236
00:52:55,390 --> 00:52:57,190
And if the rest of the world picks

1237
00:52:57,190 --> 00:52:58,830
it up, great.

1238
00:52:59,130 --> 00:53:02,170
If they don't, it's still great.

1239
00:53:03,030 --> 00:53:04,070
It's fine.

1240
00:53:05,590 --> 00:53:06,550
It's okay.

1241
00:53:08,030 --> 00:53:09,130
We, we did, we did that.

1242
00:53:09,670 --> 00:53:12,010
One of the funnest things we've ever done

1243
00:53:12,010 --> 00:53:15,210
in podcasting 2.0 is going, is going

1244
00:53:15,210 --> 00:53:18,010
to the Bitcoin National Conference a couple of

1245
00:53:18,010 --> 00:53:22,550
years ago and doing that live thing and,

1246
00:53:22,710 --> 00:53:23,290
and all that stuff.

1247
00:53:23,450 --> 00:53:25,770
I mean, in the grand scheme of things,

1248
00:53:25,830 --> 00:53:28,130
maybe there was a couple of thousand people

1249
00:53:28,130 --> 00:53:30,410
that participated like online and that kind of

1250
00:53:30,410 --> 00:53:30,550
thing.

1251
00:53:30,810 --> 00:53:32,210
Those are tiny numbers.

1252
00:53:32,650 --> 00:53:34,470
I mean, that's, that's just like.

1253
00:53:34,670 --> 00:53:35,990
But how fun was it?

1254
00:53:36,010 --> 00:53:37,390
But it was so fun.

1255
00:53:37,390 --> 00:53:39,510
And everybody got such a kick out of

1256
00:53:39,510 --> 00:53:39,670
it.

1257
00:53:39,850 --> 00:53:41,870
And it showed what was possible.

1258
00:53:43,790 --> 00:53:48,570
And that, that the, the, the showing of

1259
00:53:48,570 --> 00:53:51,110
what was possible will stick in somebody's mind

1260
00:53:51,110 --> 00:53:53,370
and some, at some point in the future,

1261
00:53:53,730 --> 00:53:56,250
fruit will be born from that.

1262
00:53:57,430 --> 00:53:59,190
In some other way, maybe in some other

1263
00:53:59,190 --> 00:54:00,710
way, not even connected to podcasting.

1264
00:54:00,730 --> 00:54:01,170
I don't know.

1265
00:54:02,370 --> 00:54:03,130
I'm with you.

1266
00:54:03,230 --> 00:54:04,390
I'm with you on that.

1267
00:54:04,570 --> 00:54:05,010
Absolutely.

1268
00:54:05,670 --> 00:54:08,090
I plan on being here doing this show

1269
00:54:08,090 --> 00:54:11,410
five years from now and, and whether we

1270
00:54:11,410 --> 00:54:13,830
got a single new tag at that point

1271
00:54:13,830 --> 00:54:15,070
or not, I don't care.

1272
00:54:17,110 --> 00:54:19,670
Well, we've, we've held onto that for, are

1273
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:21,190
we in our sixth year already?

1274
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:23,830
Is this our fifth or sixth year?

1275
00:54:24,150 --> 00:54:26,230
We started in 20, we're in the sixth

1276
00:54:26,230 --> 00:54:26,670
year now.

1277
00:54:26,690 --> 00:54:26,890
Let me see.

1278
00:54:27,170 --> 00:54:27,730
Let me see.

1279
00:54:27,890 --> 00:54:33,310
Our first 2020, uh, August.

1280
00:54:33,990 --> 00:54:34,570
August, June.

1281
00:54:34,570 --> 00:54:36,650
August 28th, 2020.

1282
00:54:37,870 --> 00:54:39,090
So we're, you know, yeah, we're in our

1283
00:54:39,090 --> 00:54:39,590
sixth year.

1284
00:54:40,510 --> 00:54:40,650
Wow.

1285
00:54:41,410 --> 00:54:41,870
Wow.

1286
00:54:42,570 --> 00:54:44,470
Think about all the stuff that's happened in

1287
00:54:44,470 --> 00:54:45,090
those six years.

1288
00:54:45,850 --> 00:54:49,490
And you know, all these things, it's like,

1289
00:54:50,490 --> 00:54:54,270
you know, so on Sunday, Dvorak and I

1290
00:54:54,270 --> 00:54:56,710
celebrate 18 years of no agenda.

1291
00:54:57,730 --> 00:54:58,210
Wow.

1292
00:54:59,030 --> 00:55:00,910
I mean, that's almost as long as my

1293
00:55:00,910 --> 00:55:01,770
first marriage.

1294
00:55:01,870 --> 00:55:02,150
Okay.

1295
00:55:02,190 --> 00:55:03,790
And he's been through all three of them.

1296
00:55:03,790 --> 00:55:05,790
And the third one is still going strong.

1297
00:55:05,870 --> 00:55:06,710
I'm happy to report.

1298
00:55:08,830 --> 00:55:11,630
But you know, the first three years and

1299
00:55:11,630 --> 00:55:13,070
we was all value for value.

1300
00:55:14,250 --> 00:55:16,550
Um, it was not a lot and, you

1301
00:55:16,550 --> 00:55:19,750
know, it took consistency and, well, that's it

1302
00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:23,090
really a consistency, just consistently being there every

1303
00:55:23,090 --> 00:55:25,710
single, initially Sunday, then, or yeah, Sunday, then

1304
00:55:25,710 --> 00:55:26,690
Thursday and Sunday.

1305
00:55:27,350 --> 00:55:30,210
And this was amidst the rise of Facebook,

1306
00:55:30,650 --> 00:55:31,110
Twitter.

1307
00:55:33,930 --> 00:55:36,810
YouTube, uh, all of this was happening right

1308
00:55:36,810 --> 00:55:39,410
in those first years and none of it

1309
00:55:39,410 --> 00:55:40,210
slowed us down.

1310
00:55:40,370 --> 00:55:42,650
It was a 5% per year gain.

1311
00:55:42,830 --> 00:55:45,650
It took a while and it took, it

1312
00:55:45,650 --> 00:55:47,970
just took just being there, just being there,

1313
00:55:48,190 --> 00:55:50,730
doing it every single time over and over

1314
00:55:50,730 --> 00:55:50,970
again.

1315
00:55:50,970 --> 00:55:52,570
And I remember the first time I was

1316
00:55:52,570 --> 00:55:55,710
in Texas that really, it wasn't until I

1317
00:55:55,710 --> 00:55:58,430
was in Texas that, uh, it was like,

1318
00:55:58,450 --> 00:56:00,850
okay, I can barely live off of this.

1319
00:56:01,970 --> 00:56:03,890
And I had a very expensive second wife.

1320
00:56:04,050 --> 00:56:06,410
That was, that sucked, but that's a problem.

1321
00:56:06,850 --> 00:56:07,290
Yeah.

1322
00:56:07,610 --> 00:56:08,970
That's I sold my plane.

1323
00:56:09,090 --> 00:56:13,750
I remember, I completely gobbled it up.

1324
00:56:15,090 --> 00:56:17,150
Um, but it all works.

1325
00:56:17,190 --> 00:56:18,930
It all can work, but yeah, it's not

1326
00:56:18,930 --> 00:56:20,610
like today's everything's free.

1327
00:56:20,710 --> 00:56:21,330
Number go up.

1328
00:56:21,350 --> 00:56:22,270
It's all going to be great.

1329
00:56:22,350 --> 00:56:23,150
I'm an influencer.

1330
00:56:23,370 --> 00:56:25,490
No, it's just not the way it goes.

1331
00:56:26,390 --> 00:56:28,590
And so, and luckily I'm seeing this whole

1332
00:56:28,590 --> 00:56:31,130
video conversation, except for Rob Greenlee.

1333
00:56:31,330 --> 00:56:34,630
I'm seeing the whole video conversation finally died

1334
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:35,210
down.

1335
00:56:35,950 --> 00:56:37,570
You know, everyone's okay.

1336
00:56:38,350 --> 00:56:39,730
Boy, that was really scary.

1337
00:56:39,810 --> 00:56:44,610
Mainly due to Google PR and marketing.

1338
00:56:44,830 --> 00:56:46,010
They're good at it.

1339
00:56:46,250 --> 00:56:47,250
Well, they have, let's put it this way.

1340
00:56:47,250 --> 00:56:49,310
They have a lot of money and they

1341
00:56:49,310 --> 00:56:51,750
have complete, they're putting all they're all in

1342
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:53,030
on AI all in.

1343
00:56:53,230 --> 00:56:54,390
By the way, I saw the numbers.

1344
00:56:55,050 --> 00:56:57,530
The revenue numbers got broken out somewhere for

1345
00:56:57,530 --> 00:56:57,870
YouTube.

1346
00:56:58,010 --> 00:57:00,530
I saw $8 billion was the YouTube revenue.

1347
00:57:00,530 --> 00:57:01,790
On an annual basis.

1348
00:57:02,610 --> 00:57:03,310
No, really?

1349
00:57:03,550 --> 00:57:06,270
That tells me that I think we're right.

1350
00:57:06,330 --> 00:57:07,790
I think they're losing money on it.

1351
00:57:08,730 --> 00:57:10,930
I don't see the more I think about

1352
00:57:10,930 --> 00:57:12,270
it, the more I don't see how they

1353
00:57:12,270 --> 00:57:13,310
can be making money.

1354
00:57:13,390 --> 00:57:13,570
Yeah.

1355
00:57:13,650 --> 00:57:15,550
Now, you know, of course they, they have

1356
00:57:15,550 --> 00:57:18,330
all these other, other pieces that are highly

1357
00:57:18,330 --> 00:57:21,170
profitable, but even that I, I predict before

1358
00:57:21,170 --> 00:57:24,290
we're done with this podcast, we'll see someone

1359
00:57:24,290 --> 00:57:27,450
else usurp Google for search because they are

1360
00:57:27,450 --> 00:57:30,090
literally killing their own business model.

1361
00:57:30,550 --> 00:57:33,210
In so many ways, one, where are you

1362
00:57:33,210 --> 00:57:35,570
going to stick your ads in, uh, in

1363
00:57:35,570 --> 00:57:39,210
your AI search results to, if you, if

1364
00:57:39,210 --> 00:57:41,890
you stop sending people to websites, there'll be

1365
00:57:41,890 --> 00:57:43,310
no one to buy ads from you.

1366
00:57:43,570 --> 00:57:44,790
It's just that simple.

1367
00:57:45,110 --> 00:57:46,470
It doesn't make any sense.

1368
00:57:46,990 --> 00:57:48,050
It really doesn't.

1369
00:57:48,110 --> 00:57:48,950
It really doesn't.

1370
00:57:49,010 --> 00:57:50,850
And I'm, I'm sure they're sitting around going,

1371
00:57:50,950 --> 00:57:51,830
what are we going to do it now?

1372
00:57:52,230 --> 00:57:52,410
Sure.

1373
00:57:52,450 --> 00:57:53,970
They're $40 billion a year.

1374
00:57:54,110 --> 00:57:55,470
I'm sure, but still, I think they're sitting

1375
00:57:55,470 --> 00:57:56,490
around going, what are we going to do?

1376
00:57:56,550 --> 00:57:57,310
How are we going to, how are we

1377
00:57:57,310 --> 00:57:58,090
going to manage this?

1378
00:57:58,090 --> 00:57:59,190
How are we going to make this happen?

1379
00:58:00,850 --> 00:58:04,470
Yeah, we're, they, from all, from all I

1380
00:58:04,470 --> 00:58:06,030
can tell, they get off with just basically

1381
00:58:06,030 --> 00:58:07,330
a slap on the wrist with all the

1382
00:58:07,330 --> 00:58:08,150
antitrust stuff.

1383
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:11,970
Um, but that's not, but that doesn't matter

1384
00:58:11,970 --> 00:58:16,310
because, you know, if you, if you're, if

1385
00:58:16,310 --> 00:58:19,370
your whole product drives up, well then antitrust

1386
00:58:19,370 --> 00:58:20,570
is the least of your concerns.

1387
00:58:21,070 --> 00:58:23,030
By the way, Eric PP is just going

1388
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:23,910
back to no agenda.

1389
00:58:24,030 --> 00:58:24,710
There were episodes.

1390
00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:26,390
We threatened to quit the show for low,

1391
00:58:26,410 --> 00:58:27,390
low donations.

1392
00:58:27,570 --> 00:58:27,870
Yes.

1393
00:58:27,870 --> 00:58:29,770
How about every episode?

1394
00:58:30,650 --> 00:58:33,190
Because it's value for value for value goes

1395
00:58:33,190 --> 00:58:34,130
both ways.

1396
00:58:34,570 --> 00:58:36,830
If I don't get enough, the value I

1397
00:58:36,830 --> 00:58:38,970
need, which is honestly not all that much

1398
00:58:38,970 --> 00:58:42,170
in return for the, and Hey, if people

1399
00:58:42,170 --> 00:58:44,090
stop supporting the index, guess what?

1400
00:58:44,850 --> 00:58:47,730
Dave and Adam will probably dig into our

1401
00:58:47,730 --> 00:58:50,870
own pockets to keep it running, but there

1402
00:58:50,870 --> 00:58:52,470
won't be much other activity.

1403
00:58:53,750 --> 00:58:57,110
No, I mean, like I plan on running

1404
00:58:57,110 --> 00:58:58,910
this thing in for the rest of my

1405
00:58:58,910 --> 00:59:01,830
life, but, you know, I mean, uh, if

1406
00:59:01,830 --> 00:59:04,830
people don't use it or support it financially,

1407
00:59:04,970 --> 00:59:06,850
I mean, we have a lot of, now

1408
00:59:06,850 --> 00:59:08,150
we have a lot of use.

1409
00:59:08,450 --> 00:59:13,290
I mean, um, usage has steadily usage of

1410
00:59:13,290 --> 00:59:15,910
the index by apps has steadily gone up

1411
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:19,110
over the years and it never, that number

1412
00:59:19,110 --> 00:59:20,010
does not go down.

1413
00:59:20,250 --> 00:59:20,770
Number go up.

1414
00:59:20,890 --> 00:59:21,650
Number go up.

1415
00:59:21,650 --> 00:59:22,610
Well, it is.

1416
00:59:22,670 --> 00:59:25,690
It is absolutely beautiful resource.

1417
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:27,190
It's so beautiful.

1418
00:59:27,350 --> 00:59:29,110
There've been so many people have tried to

1419
00:59:29,110 --> 00:59:32,990
do commercial indexes and while they've certainly had

1420
00:59:32,990 --> 00:59:37,730
success, you know, with 40 employees, 140 employees,

1421
00:59:37,890 --> 00:59:39,690
like, no, you don't need that.

1422
00:59:39,790 --> 00:59:41,470
This just needs to be around.

1423
00:59:41,590 --> 00:59:44,630
And I'm sure that the biggest fear I

1424
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:46,070
have is you, that's the problem.

1425
00:59:46,190 --> 00:59:47,730
When you're like, as long as I'm around,

1426
00:59:47,770 --> 00:59:50,030
when you're not around, it's like cut off

1427
00:59:50,030 --> 00:59:53,650
his thumb, put it on the iPhone app,

1428
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:57,710
get the biometrics, take the imprinted into some

1429
00:59:57,710 --> 01:00:00,870
clay, please quickly, you know, and then we're

1430
01:00:00,870 --> 01:00:02,050
going to have to figure out how you

1431
01:00:02,050 --> 01:00:02,670
did it.

1432
01:00:02,750 --> 01:00:05,510
The fly out to Alabama and be camping

1433
01:00:05,510 --> 01:00:07,290
out, you know, your body's still going to

1434
01:00:07,290 --> 01:00:09,510
be there, you know, laying in state like,

1435
01:00:09,630 --> 01:00:10,490
Hey Dave, how you doing?

1436
01:00:11,010 --> 01:00:11,710
We're going to be thinking.

1437
01:00:11,970 --> 01:00:12,990
I've got a dead man's switch.

1438
01:00:13,030 --> 01:00:13,930
No, you don't.

1439
01:00:14,190 --> 01:00:15,230
No, you don't.

1440
01:00:15,470 --> 01:00:16,130
You don't.

1441
01:00:16,130 --> 01:00:21,230
Uh, this, the, uh, yeah, the, yeah, the

1442
01:00:21,230 --> 01:00:22,630
number just keeps going up and I'm, I

1443
01:00:22,630 --> 01:00:27,830
tried desperately to keep from having to upsize

1444
01:00:27,830 --> 01:00:29,130
servers and all that stuff.

1445
01:00:29,150 --> 01:00:31,370
I mean, I've, I just pull out all

1446
01:00:31,370 --> 01:00:34,250
every trick I've got to try to keep,

1447
01:00:34,250 --> 01:00:36,710
because I do not want our expenses to

1448
01:00:36,710 --> 01:00:38,510
go up any more than they already are.

1449
01:00:38,510 --> 01:00:42,250
Uh, I just, even though traffic has gone

1450
01:00:42,250 --> 01:00:44,770
up in the last year and a half,

1451
01:00:44,850 --> 01:00:46,890
probably 30%.

1452
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:50,050
Um, and most of those people don't, they

1453
01:00:50,050 --> 01:00:51,230
don't ever pay us a dime.

1454
01:00:52,250 --> 01:00:54,590
No, no, you know, but the bus, bus

1455
01:00:54,590 --> 01:00:55,970
route pays us every month.

1456
01:00:56,150 --> 01:00:58,470
Uh, fountain pays us every month.

1457
01:00:58,590 --> 01:01:00,270
Mitch at podverse pays us every month.

1458
01:01:01,990 --> 01:01:05,670
They pitch in stuff, you know, periodically, but

1459
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:08,230
that's about it.

1460
01:01:08,330 --> 01:01:10,710
I mean, we, we have monthly, we have

1461
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:12,310
a lot of monthly supporters, you know, the

1462
01:01:12,310 --> 01:01:15,210
$25, the $5, all of that matters.

1463
01:01:15,390 --> 01:01:17,670
Believe me, $5 is a Linode server.

1464
01:01:18,010 --> 01:01:19,970
Uh, a little one gig serve.

1465
01:01:20,050 --> 01:01:22,010
That's a party time party time.

1466
01:01:22,490 --> 01:01:25,050
But all the, uh, Brandon at pod page,

1467
01:01:25,310 --> 01:01:27,410
but most of the people, like we have,

1468
01:01:28,410 --> 01:01:32,890
we have a person that people would probably

1469
01:01:32,890 --> 01:01:37,310
know that their entire product is built on

1470
01:01:37,310 --> 01:01:39,550
the index, paid a paid product.

1471
01:01:41,710 --> 01:01:46,150
Um, and they don't ever give, they don't

1472
01:01:46,150 --> 01:01:47,090
ever donate anything.

1473
01:01:47,710 --> 01:01:49,590
And w which is fine.

1474
01:01:49,770 --> 01:01:50,850
That's, that's fine.

1475
01:01:50,930 --> 01:01:54,110
But I'm saying like this, the only time

1476
01:01:54,110 --> 01:01:56,190
I ever hear from this, from this guy

1477
01:01:56,190 --> 01:01:59,810
is when he emails me to say, Hey,

1478
01:01:59,890 --> 01:02:01,690
this, I'm trying to get this podcast and

1479
01:02:01,690 --> 01:02:04,210
it's broken and I've got a paid customer.

1480
01:02:04,210 --> 01:02:07,310
So I'm like doing tech support for this

1481
01:02:07,310 --> 01:02:10,250
person for their broken stuff.

1482
01:02:10,790 --> 01:02:13,690
When they moved to us because they were

1483
01:02:13,690 --> 01:02:15,730
having trouble with Apple's API, they moved over

1484
01:02:15,730 --> 01:02:18,330
to ours and they, it's a paid service

1485
01:02:18,330 --> 01:02:19,730
and they, they don't donate a thing.

1486
01:02:19,810 --> 01:02:24,550
So we're, we're supporting tons of, of apps

1487
01:02:24,550 --> 01:02:28,790
that, that make money that don't pay us.

1488
01:02:28,790 --> 01:02:32,110
So like, and that costs money for us

1489
01:02:32,110 --> 01:02:35,950
and time, you know, and so like, that's,

1490
01:02:35,990 --> 01:02:38,330
it's not a, some, some days it's not

1491
01:02:38,330 --> 01:02:39,770
fun to do this.

1492
01:02:41,470 --> 01:02:44,130
But you know, you just keep on, you

1493
01:02:44,130 --> 01:02:45,170
just keep on doing it.

1494
01:02:45,270 --> 01:02:46,470
Keep on keeping on baby.

1495
01:02:46,810 --> 01:02:47,690
Keep on keeping on.

1496
01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:49,490
We give us some of that AI cash,

1497
01:02:49,530 --> 01:02:49,810
baby.

1498
01:02:50,970 --> 01:02:51,150
Yeah.

1499
01:02:51,230 --> 01:02:53,050
Marco gave us 500 a month for years

1500
01:02:53,050 --> 01:02:55,330
and I will always be appreciative of that.

1501
01:02:55,410 --> 01:02:56,290
Certainly in the beginning.

1502
01:02:56,610 --> 01:02:56,810
Yeah.

1503
01:02:56,930 --> 01:02:57,290
Yeah.

1504
01:02:57,290 --> 01:02:57,810
Yeah.

1505
01:02:57,990 --> 01:03:02,650
And he knows, he knows that even at

1506
01:03:02,650 --> 01:03:06,490
any moment I've corresponded with him before.

1507
01:03:06,650 --> 01:03:08,850
He knows that at any moment if Apple's,

1508
01:03:09,050 --> 01:03:14,290
if Apple's API goes down, he can switch

1509
01:03:14,290 --> 01:03:14,910
over to us.

1510
01:03:15,690 --> 01:03:16,350
Drop in replacement.

1511
01:03:16,670 --> 01:03:16,790
Yeah.

1512
01:03:17,030 --> 01:03:19,110
Drop in replacement and then when they come

1513
01:03:19,110 --> 01:03:20,330
back up, he can flip back over.

1514
01:03:20,950 --> 01:03:22,350
That's always the case.

1515
01:03:22,750 --> 01:03:24,690
Nobody has to pay us in order to

1516
01:03:24,690 --> 01:03:25,750
use our service.

1517
01:03:25,750 --> 01:03:29,370
But it does, but it is expensive and

1518
01:03:29,370 --> 01:03:30,530
it has real world consequences.

1519
01:03:30,750 --> 01:03:32,890
So we do actually have to have some

1520
01:03:32,890 --> 01:03:33,190
money.

1521
01:03:34,810 --> 01:03:37,910
Speaking of such, if you feel so moved

1522
01:03:37,910 --> 01:03:41,230
by the value that the podcast index provides

1523
01:03:41,230 --> 01:03:44,050
to you, your project, your listening pleasure, the

1524
01:03:44,050 --> 01:03:48,210
app you use, consider supporting us by sending

1525
01:03:48,210 --> 01:03:50,670
us a booster gram, which you can do

1526
01:03:50,670 --> 01:03:52,470
from many of the modern podcast apps.

1527
01:03:52,470 --> 01:03:54,630
You can even do it on podcastindex.org

1528
01:03:54,630 --> 01:03:55,810
by connecting your Albi hub.

1529
01:03:55,890 --> 01:03:56,970
I just did that today.

1530
01:03:58,050 --> 01:04:00,490
Yeah, I sent a sad puppy boost to

1531
01:04:00,490 --> 01:04:04,710
This Week in Bitcoin because I've been using

1532
01:04:04,710 --> 01:04:05,830
the Godcaster to listen.

1533
01:04:05,970 --> 01:04:08,210
So I'm not streaming sats anymore at the

1534
01:04:08,210 --> 01:04:08,550
moment.

1535
01:04:09,170 --> 01:04:10,850
Down the road, that'll change.

1536
01:04:11,130 --> 01:04:13,550
But because that app has gotten so good,

1537
01:04:13,730 --> 01:04:16,210
it has all the podcasts I want and

1538
01:04:17,690 --> 01:04:19,310
he was low on donations.

1539
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:20,670
I'm like, oh no, this is no good.

1540
01:04:20,670 --> 01:04:22,750
And I just went over there and you

1541
01:04:22,750 --> 01:04:24,690
do have to hit it multiple times for

1542
01:04:24,690 --> 01:04:26,830
the because of the splits that the Albi

1543
01:04:26,830 --> 01:04:28,790
plugin asks you to.

1544
01:04:29,010 --> 01:04:31,430
I guess if you pre-approve it, then

1545
01:04:31,430 --> 01:04:32,670
it's OK, but I don't use it that

1546
01:04:32,670 --> 01:04:32,910
often.

1547
01:04:33,590 --> 01:04:34,850
But it works really well.

1548
01:04:34,910 --> 01:04:39,310
And it went straight from through Albi's, you

1549
01:04:39,310 --> 01:04:42,990
know, my Adam at AlbiHub.com, I guess,

1550
01:04:43,090 --> 01:04:45,090
or Albi.com to my node here at

1551
01:04:45,090 --> 01:04:45,410
home.

1552
01:04:45,550 --> 01:04:46,330
Worked fine.

1553
01:04:46,490 --> 01:04:47,070
It's amazing.

1554
01:04:47,390 --> 01:04:48,770
Any of the stuff works at all.

1555
01:04:49,530 --> 01:04:50,990
It was quite beautiful.

1556
01:04:51,430 --> 01:04:52,870
So you can do it that way.

1557
01:04:53,310 --> 01:04:55,570
And of course, on podcastindex.org, if you

1558
01:04:55,570 --> 01:04:57,070
scroll down to the bottom, there's a big

1559
01:04:57,070 --> 01:04:57,910
red donate button.

1560
01:04:58,190 --> 01:05:03,490
We gleefully accept your Fiat fund coupons through

1561
01:05:03,490 --> 01:05:03,770
PayPal.

1562
01:05:05,070 --> 01:05:05,930
There we go.

1563
01:05:06,150 --> 01:05:07,850
See, Laszlo on Linux comes in with one,

1564
01:05:07,950 --> 01:05:08,950
two, three, four sats.

1565
01:05:09,650 --> 01:05:12,830
He says, can the stats page show other

1566
01:05:12,830 --> 01:05:13,550
things too?

1567
01:05:14,290 --> 01:05:16,690
Request amounts or bandwidth or other.

1568
01:05:20,230 --> 01:05:20,830
What?

1569
01:05:21,330 --> 01:05:24,570
I guess he's looking more for stats from

1570
01:05:24,570 --> 01:05:26,710
the index on the stats page.

1571
01:05:28,940 --> 01:05:31,780
Like how many requests we're getting or how

1572
01:05:31,780 --> 01:05:33,260
much bandwidth we're using.

1573
01:05:34,420 --> 01:05:37,960
Oh, oh, like, OK, I see.

1574
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:41,560
So like more than just the content of

1575
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:44,000
the index, but actually like the performance metrics

1576
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:44,580
of the index.

1577
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:45,900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1578
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:46,660
A dashboard.

1579
01:05:46,900 --> 01:05:48,480
I see a dashboard coming.

1580
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:49,400
Dashboard, yeah.

1581
01:05:49,740 --> 01:05:52,760
Uh, the health, the health dashboard.

1582
01:05:54,940 --> 01:05:56,320
That's an interesting idea.

1583
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:58,180
If you're in there anyway, if you're doing

1584
01:05:58,180 --> 01:06:00,540
stuff anyway, you know, you got some spare

1585
01:06:00,540 --> 01:06:00,800
time.

1586
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:03,820
Yeah, I guess there's plenty of that.

1587
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:05,780
Yeah, that's an interesting idea.

1588
01:06:05,980 --> 01:06:06,660
Yeah, I'll think about that.

1589
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:08,300
RoaDux from Eric PP.

1590
01:06:08,580 --> 01:06:08,960
Value!

1591
01:06:09,540 --> 01:06:10,280
Exclamation mark.

1592
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:15,000
Just got two sats from IPFS Podcasting.

1593
01:06:15,060 --> 01:06:18,380
I still run my IPFSPodcasting.net node.

1594
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:21,640
I'm hosting a lot of stuff, which, by

1595
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:23,960
the way, what a beautiful thing to see

1596
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,000
working perfectly when all these, uh, when AWS

1597
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:28,140
outage happened.

1598
01:06:28,380 --> 01:06:30,420
And I had no idea how many people,

1599
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:33,080
how many podcast company hosting companies were dependent

1600
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:33,880
on AWS.

1601
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:35,040
That was rather interesting.

1602
01:06:36,500 --> 01:06:38,500
DynamoDB was the culprit, evidently.

1603
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:39,040
And I've used it.

1604
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:40,540
Well, it's DNS basically, right?

1605
01:06:41,180 --> 01:06:43,320
Yeah, but I think, yeah, it took every,

1606
01:06:43,420 --> 01:06:46,500
like DynamoDB, I think, if I'm not mistaken,

1607
01:06:46,500 --> 01:06:49,280
was the very first AWS service.

1608
01:06:50,340 --> 01:06:51,360
I think.

1609
01:06:51,620 --> 01:06:51,860
Oh, really?

1610
01:06:52,020 --> 01:06:54,940
Other than just VMs. I think DynamoDB was

1611
01:06:54,940 --> 01:06:57,880
like in their original service launch because they

1612
01:06:57,880 --> 01:06:58,600
used it.

1613
01:06:58,780 --> 01:07:00,400
They used that internally.

1614
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:04,040
That's like part of Amazon's core infrastructure.

1615
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:06,640
They depend on DynamoDB.

1616
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:07,420
Yeah, they depend on it.

1617
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:07,740
Yes.

1618
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:11,260
So Eric PP sent that from CurioCaster.

1619
01:07:11,260 --> 01:07:12,900
Class on Linux through Fountain.

1620
01:07:13,180 --> 01:07:16,220
Salty Crayon sends three, three, three from Podcast

1621
01:07:16,220 --> 01:07:16,780
Guru.

1622
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:19,420
Uh, says backup Boostergram.

1623
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:20,180
Howdy, boardroom.

1624
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:22,600
It's day 24 here at the DOW.

1625
01:07:23,660 --> 01:07:25,620
And I'm just here keeping the lights on

1626
01:07:25,620 --> 01:07:27,840
while everybody is off on vacation in other

1627
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:28,300
states.

1628
01:07:28,700 --> 01:07:30,960
We living in peak clown world, five by

1629
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:31,680
five in the pipe.

1630
01:07:31,780 --> 01:07:34,180
I would say DOW's Department of War is

1631
01:07:34,180 --> 01:07:34,840
what I'm thinking.

1632
01:07:35,700 --> 01:07:36,320
Thank you.

1633
01:07:36,340 --> 01:07:38,140
Thank you for your service, Salty Crayon.

1634
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:41,600
The 1701 from Lyceum.

1635
01:07:41,820 --> 01:07:42,860
That's Martin Lindeskog.

1636
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,300
I'm sticking around, but I could be lost

1637
01:07:45,300 --> 01:07:46,600
in space now and then.

1638
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:49,280
Starship Boost with 1701, Satoshi's PS.

1639
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:51,340
I like the real money, silver and gold

1640
01:07:51,340 --> 01:07:53,160
talk at the end of the previous episode.

1641
01:07:53,620 --> 01:07:53,820
Wait.

1642
01:07:54,900 --> 01:07:55,160
Yeah.

1643
01:07:55,220 --> 01:07:56,140
Did we talk about that?

1644
01:07:56,820 --> 01:07:57,260
Yeah, we did.

1645
01:07:59,610 --> 01:08:00,750
And then I hit the delimiter.

1646
01:08:00,930 --> 01:08:02,250
So you're up, Davey.

1647
01:08:03,270 --> 01:08:04,550
Uh, we, let's see.

1648
01:08:04,730 --> 01:08:06,450
Oh, I just, of course, I lost my

1649
01:08:06,450 --> 01:08:06,610
page.

1650
01:08:06,630 --> 01:08:07,510
You got Buzzsprout.

1651
01:08:07,770 --> 01:08:08,370
Speak of the devil.

1652
01:08:08,510 --> 01:08:09,190
Thousand dollars.

1653
01:08:09,190 --> 01:08:09,650
Bam.

1654
01:08:09,730 --> 01:08:10,310
There it is.

1655
01:08:10,350 --> 01:08:12,030
Baller, shot caller.

1656
01:08:12,270 --> 01:08:14,870
20 inch blades, only in baller.

1657
01:08:15,270 --> 01:08:17,649
Thank you, boys and girls of Buzzsprout so

1658
01:08:17,649 --> 01:08:18,229
much.

1659
01:08:18,510 --> 01:08:20,529
That, that makes a huge difference.

1660
01:08:20,729 --> 01:08:21,910
It really, really does.

1661
01:08:23,170 --> 01:08:23,609
Yep.

1662
01:08:23,649 --> 01:08:24,710
It basically pays the bills.

1663
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:25,149
Yep.

1664
01:08:25,250 --> 01:08:25,450
Yep.

1665
01:08:25,710 --> 01:08:26,410
Thank you guys.

1666
01:08:28,069 --> 01:08:29,850
And J, uh, see donors.

1667
01:08:30,050 --> 01:08:33,210
A Jacob Salinas sent us $10.

1668
01:08:33,529 --> 01:08:34,050
Thank you, Jacob.

1669
01:08:34,090 --> 01:08:34,590
Thank you, Jacob.

1670
01:08:34,649 --> 01:08:35,529
Appreciate that.

1671
01:08:35,710 --> 01:08:36,569
Uh, let's see.

1672
01:08:36,630 --> 01:08:38,510
We got, uh, oh, oh, Oistein Barra.

1673
01:08:38,510 --> 01:08:39,149
$5.

1674
01:08:39,529 --> 01:08:40,790
I guess he's coming up after the show.

1675
01:08:40,970 --> 01:08:41,310
Yes.

1676
01:08:41,630 --> 01:08:44,630
Mutton and Mead, Mutton Mead Music is, uh,

1677
01:08:44,630 --> 01:08:46,470
always takes over the screen right after the

1678
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:47,050
board meeting.

1679
01:08:47,770 --> 01:08:49,189
Michael Goggin, $5.

1680
01:08:49,609 --> 01:08:50,250
Thank you, Michael.

1681
01:08:50,569 --> 01:08:51,470
Jorge Hernandez.

1682
01:08:52,830 --> 01:08:53,790
That's $5.

1683
01:08:54,050 --> 01:08:54,590
Thank you, Jorge.

1684
01:08:55,170 --> 01:08:56,410
James Sullivan, $10.

1685
01:08:56,689 --> 01:08:57,310
Thank you, James.

1686
01:08:57,370 --> 01:08:59,109
I hope the, I hope the person or

1687
01:08:59,109 --> 01:09:01,970
company or whoever is, uh, is making you

1688
01:09:01,970 --> 01:09:03,149
do tech support for free.

1689
01:09:03,210 --> 01:09:05,130
I hope they hear this and they, and

1690
01:09:05,130 --> 01:09:07,710
they understand that these people are actually paying

1691
01:09:07,710 --> 01:09:10,930
for the support they need.

1692
01:09:10,990 --> 01:09:13,170
Although it's not paying you, but they're supporting

1693
01:09:13,170 --> 01:09:14,490
the service they use.

1694
01:09:14,850 --> 01:09:16,930
You must tell me offline who this is

1695
01:09:16,930 --> 01:09:18,770
so I can pray for them.

1696
01:09:20,010 --> 01:09:22,189
That was what I always appreciated so much

1697
01:09:22,189 --> 01:09:24,990
about, uh, about Marco's donations is he was

1698
01:09:24,990 --> 01:09:27,870
funding other, he's funding his competitors.

1699
01:09:28,950 --> 01:09:29,050
Yeah.

1700
01:09:30,609 --> 01:09:32,210
Christopher Reimer, $10.

1701
01:09:32,470 --> 01:09:33,170
Thank you, Christopher.

1702
01:09:33,290 --> 01:09:33,970
Appreciate that.

1703
01:09:34,270 --> 01:09:35,810
And, uh, Cohen Glotzbach, $5.

1704
01:09:36,590 --> 01:09:37,790
Uh, Randall Black.

1705
01:09:38,029 --> 01:09:38,470
Hey, Randall.

1706
01:09:38,569 --> 01:09:39,029
Thanks, brother.

1707
01:09:39,330 --> 01:09:39,890
Uh, $5.

1708
01:09:40,750 --> 01:09:41,710
And, uh, that's it.

1709
01:09:41,750 --> 01:09:43,550
We got some Boostergrams.

1710
01:09:43,870 --> 01:09:45,609
Let me flip over here to the Boostergrams.

1711
01:09:45,770 --> 01:09:45,910
Let's see.

1712
01:09:45,990 --> 01:09:47,689
Someone was asking me the other day, how

1713
01:09:47,689 --> 01:09:49,410
does Dave get the Boostergrams?

1714
01:09:49,450 --> 01:09:51,430
And I think the answer is you have

1715
01:09:51,430 --> 01:09:55,990
a script that runs, um, probably through, what's

1716
01:09:55,990 --> 01:09:57,670
the command line tool we always like?

1717
01:09:57,750 --> 01:10:01,590
Uh, you pull it out of the node

1718
01:10:01,590 --> 01:10:02,370
directly, right?

1719
01:10:03,410 --> 01:10:06,890
Yeah, I have a, I have some PHP

1720
01:10:06,890 --> 01:10:10,530
scripts that run, that pull, uh, boost, that

1721
01:10:10,530 --> 01:10:15,330
pull all of our, uh, for tax, for,

1722
01:10:15,450 --> 01:10:18,130
to keep track of taxes for, for us,

1723
01:10:18,290 --> 01:10:22,610
I have a script that downloads everything, every

1724
01:10:22,610 --> 01:10:25,610
transaction out of our lightning node, uh, once

1725
01:10:25,610 --> 01:10:26,150
a minute.

1726
01:10:26,890 --> 01:10:26,990
Nice.

1727
01:10:27,330 --> 01:10:29,330
And so then it, and it sticks it

1728
01:10:29,330 --> 01:10:31,610
into a local database on that machine.

1729
01:10:31,610 --> 01:10:33,670
And so then at any moment I can

1730
01:10:33,670 --> 01:10:35,170
go and give it a range of time

1731
01:10:35,170 --> 01:10:37,930
and say, give me, extract all the Boostergrams

1732
01:10:37,930 --> 01:10:40,250
out of these donations for this rain time

1733
01:10:40,250 --> 01:10:40,590
range.

1734
01:10:40,770 --> 01:10:43,690
And so what does the, uh, what does

1735
01:10:43,690 --> 01:10:45,330
the communication with the node?

1736
01:10:46,630 --> 01:10:49,190
Uh, it's just, it's the REST API, context

1737
01:10:49,190 --> 01:10:50,010
of the REST API.

1738
01:10:50,410 --> 01:10:50,630
Huh.

1739
01:10:51,910 --> 01:10:53,210
That's a cool little widget.

1740
01:10:54,190 --> 01:10:54,830
Yeah, it's cool.

1741
01:10:54,850 --> 01:10:56,410
It's just a, uh, it's just a PHP

1742
01:10:56,410 --> 01:10:56,770
script.

1743
01:10:56,890 --> 01:10:57,810
Yeah, I like it.

1744
01:10:57,850 --> 01:10:57,990
Yeah.

1745
01:10:57,990 --> 01:10:58,670
It's a set of them.

1746
01:10:58,730 --> 01:10:58,830
Yeah.

1747
01:10:58,830 --> 01:10:59,930
And then I got another set of them

1748
01:10:59,930 --> 01:11:01,350
that exports everything at the end of the

1749
01:11:01,350 --> 01:11:02,710
year so we can do our taxes and

1750
01:11:02,710 --> 01:11:03,030
all that.

1751
01:11:03,270 --> 01:11:03,370
Hmm.

1752
01:11:03,970 --> 01:11:07,790
Um, it's homegrown stuff, you know, uh, let's

1753
01:11:07,790 --> 01:11:10,270
see, Bruce, the ugly cracking duck, 2222, do

1754
01:11:10,270 --> 01:11:10,930
podcast guru.

1755
01:11:11,370 --> 01:11:11,870
Thank you.

1756
01:11:11,970 --> 01:11:13,310
It says, uh, what?

1757
01:11:13,450 --> 01:11:15,830
You mean that video is the zombies platform

1758
01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:18,070
and audio still shines life into our brains?

1759
01:11:18,130 --> 01:11:20,290
Wait, you guys probably didn't say that.

1760
01:11:20,330 --> 01:11:20,530
Haha.

1761
01:11:20,590 --> 01:11:21,210
I just dreamed it.

1762
01:11:21,610 --> 01:11:21,970
73s.

1763
01:11:22,970 --> 01:11:23,330
73s.

1764
01:11:23,450 --> 01:11:25,830
Cole McCormick, Satchel Richards, one, one, one, one

1765
01:11:25,830 --> 01:11:26,230
through fountain.

1766
01:11:26,230 --> 01:11:28,170
He says, while you were discussing short form

1767
01:11:28,170 --> 01:11:30,710
video, my mom sent me five different reels

1768
01:11:30,710 --> 01:11:32,530
on Instagram and Facebook in a 30 second

1769
01:11:32,530 --> 01:11:32,870
span.

1770
01:11:34,710 --> 01:11:36,350
Yeah, we, I'm sorry for that.

1771
01:11:36,630 --> 01:11:37,890
We set up this, uh, this group.

1772
01:11:38,030 --> 01:11:39,930
We had about 14 people over the other

1773
01:11:39,930 --> 01:11:42,730
night at our house and, uh, it's kind

1774
01:11:42,730 --> 01:11:43,970
of hokey, but I'll tell you what it

1775
01:11:43,970 --> 01:11:44,130
is.

1776
01:11:44,410 --> 01:11:47,110
So we, um, there's a movie by Kirk

1777
01:11:47,110 --> 01:11:50,450
Cameron called fireproof and this.

1778
01:11:50,670 --> 01:11:51,810
Yeah, I remember seeing that.

1779
01:11:52,030 --> 01:11:52,970
Yeah, I don't think I saw it.

1780
01:11:53,250 --> 01:11:55,170
15, 20 years ago or something.

1781
01:11:56,410 --> 01:11:58,650
And, you know, he's going through a marital

1782
01:11:58,650 --> 01:12:00,830
problems and then his dad gives him this

1783
01:12:00,830 --> 01:12:02,310
book and it's called the love dare.

1784
01:12:02,350 --> 01:12:04,150
And for 40 days you do this thing

1785
01:12:04,150 --> 01:12:06,410
and it's, it's based on scripture and it's,

1786
01:12:06,450 --> 01:12:07,390
it's kind of fun.

1787
01:12:07,430 --> 01:12:10,550
And so, uh, someone said, Hey, let's do

1788
01:12:10,550 --> 01:12:10,970
this.

1789
01:12:10,970 --> 01:12:12,870
And we'll, you know, so, and some of

1790
01:12:12,870 --> 01:12:14,170
us have been married for one year.

1791
01:12:14,230 --> 01:12:15,330
Some of us have been married for 30

1792
01:12:15,330 --> 01:12:15,750
years.

1793
01:12:15,950 --> 01:12:20,630
So we all got together and, uh, and

1794
01:12:20,630 --> 01:12:22,170
we, and, and, you know, so we did,

1795
01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:23,570
you know, we talked about it, did this

1796
01:12:23,570 --> 01:12:24,750
and we set up the startup.

1797
01:12:24,750 --> 01:12:27,190
It's basically hang out, you know, everyone brought

1798
01:12:27,190 --> 01:12:29,430
food, but then they put together a text

1799
01:12:29,430 --> 01:12:31,190
group and I'm like, okay.

1800
01:12:31,350 --> 01:12:33,290
And then the purpose of the text group

1801
01:12:33,290 --> 01:12:35,830
was supposed to be for the organizers to

1802
01:12:35,830 --> 01:12:39,270
post at in the evening, post the love

1803
01:12:39,270 --> 01:12:40,490
dare for the next day.

1804
01:12:40,750 --> 01:12:41,730
You know, so you don't have to guess

1805
01:12:41,730 --> 01:12:44,730
it turned into nothing but memes, dude, dude,

1806
01:12:44,750 --> 01:12:48,870
like pictures, Instagram, little mini reels.

1807
01:12:48,990 --> 01:12:51,250
I'm like, this is, this is the problem.

1808
01:12:51,450 --> 01:12:52,550
People I'm out.

1809
01:12:53,310 --> 01:12:54,330
It's like, please.

1810
01:12:54,610 --> 01:12:56,910
And of course everyone hates me because I

1811
01:12:56,910 --> 01:12:58,970
turned the whole group into green bubble with

1812
01:12:58,970 --> 01:13:00,110
my Android phone.

1813
01:13:00,290 --> 01:13:03,990
Like who has the Android?

1814
01:13:04,850 --> 01:13:05,110
Yeah.

1815
01:13:05,210 --> 01:13:06,170
You're gross.

1816
01:13:09,070 --> 01:13:09,950
Chad F.

1817
01:13:10,330 --> 01:13:11,830
Sasser Richards, one, one, one, one.

1818
01:13:11,890 --> 01:13:12,470
Thank you, Chad.

1819
01:13:12,850 --> 01:13:15,030
Great hearing Barry from Noster.

1820
01:13:15,710 --> 01:13:17,830
He's got a Noster handle there on the

1821
01:13:17,830 --> 01:13:18,050
show.

1822
01:13:18,250 --> 01:13:20,210
He's building some cool stuff and I always

1823
01:13:20,210 --> 01:13:21,410
hear great things about Podhome.

1824
01:13:21,990 --> 01:13:24,350
And again, Chad will be on the show

1825
01:13:24,350 --> 01:13:25,010
with us next week.

1826
01:13:28,070 --> 01:13:30,370
Chad's voice sounds very different than I envisioned

1827
01:13:30,370 --> 01:13:30,730
it.

1828
01:13:31,470 --> 01:13:31,750
Oh yeah?

1829
01:13:31,950 --> 01:13:32,170
Yeah.

1830
01:13:32,210 --> 01:13:35,230
He posted a video of his, uh, of

1831
01:13:35,230 --> 01:13:36,630
his, his, uh, test app.

1832
01:13:36,850 --> 01:13:38,750
I'm like, ah, I never thought that that's

1833
01:13:38,750 --> 01:13:39,610
how he would sound.

1834
01:13:39,790 --> 01:13:42,230
You know how you, you put a, I

1835
01:13:42,230 --> 01:13:43,210
don't know if you had, you put a

1836
01:13:43,210 --> 01:13:45,150
voice to a, to someone who you only

1837
01:13:45,150 --> 01:13:45,970
see online.

1838
01:13:46,750 --> 01:13:48,310
And somehow I thought he would have this

1839
01:13:48,310 --> 01:13:49,970
really high pitched whiny voice.

1840
01:13:50,030 --> 01:13:50,650
I'm sorry, Chad.

1841
01:13:50,670 --> 01:13:51,270
I can't help it.

1842
01:13:51,270 --> 01:13:52,230
That's just what I thought.

1843
01:13:52,390 --> 01:13:53,410
And he doesn't.

1844
01:13:53,510 --> 01:13:54,750
I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool.

1845
01:13:54,830 --> 01:13:55,830
I can't wait to talk to him.

1846
01:13:56,010 --> 01:13:56,170
Okay.

1847
01:13:56,370 --> 01:13:59,010
I always do the, uh, the reverse.

1848
01:13:59,110 --> 01:14:00,890
I hear somebody's voice and I picture what

1849
01:14:00,890 --> 01:14:01,510
they look like.

1850
01:14:01,530 --> 01:14:02,630
And then I see them and I'm like,

1851
01:14:02,730 --> 01:14:04,330
whoa, that's not what I thought.

1852
01:14:05,610 --> 01:14:06,010
Yes.

1853
01:14:07,130 --> 01:14:10,570
Um, see, uh, see loss on Linux 2222

1854
01:14:10,570 --> 01:14:11,090
through fountain.

1855
01:14:11,230 --> 01:14:13,070
He says, Dave talking about a second vibe

1856
01:14:13,070 --> 01:14:15,030
coding pass to check for errors and issues.

1857
01:14:15,450 --> 01:14:17,470
There's at least one service called code rabbit

1858
01:14:17,470 --> 01:14:20,330
.ai. You connect it to your GitHub or

1859
01:14:20,330 --> 01:14:20,650
other.

1860
01:14:21,270 --> 01:14:22,490
And then on a pull request, it will

1861
01:14:22,490 --> 01:14:24,730
do things like read the code, make a

1862
01:14:24,730 --> 01:14:28,210
change, uh, see, make a changes graph, spin

1863
01:14:28,210 --> 01:14:30,390
up linters and static analysis tools and check

1864
01:14:30,390 --> 01:14:31,710
your code for all sorts of issues.

1865
01:14:33,210 --> 01:14:35,350
They have a CLI and plugins for editors

1866
01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:35,590
too.

1867
01:14:35,710 --> 01:14:36,070
It's good.

1868
01:14:36,130 --> 01:14:39,090
Even if you don't vibe code, well, that's

1869
01:14:39,090 --> 01:14:39,210
good.

1870
01:14:39,350 --> 01:14:40,150
I mean, yeah.

1871
01:14:40,210 --> 01:14:42,370
Fuzzing would be a good thing to do

1872
01:14:42,370 --> 01:14:44,510
for AI fuzzing fuzzing.

1873
01:14:45,490 --> 01:14:45,890
Yeah.

1874
01:14:45,890 --> 01:14:48,430
That's where you take a piece of where

1875
01:14:48,430 --> 01:14:49,790
you take a piece of code and you

1876
01:14:49,790 --> 01:14:53,070
just throw all kinds of, let's say that

1877
01:14:53,070 --> 01:14:55,110
your code expects a particular protocol.

1878
01:14:55,390 --> 01:15:00,810
You throw every different weird bug and permutation

1879
01:15:00,810 --> 01:15:03,350
and wrong thing at this code to see

1880
01:15:03,350 --> 01:15:04,090
how it breaks.

1881
01:15:04,350 --> 01:15:05,170
That's called marriage.

1882
01:15:05,190 --> 01:15:09,510
My friend, baby.

1883
01:15:09,630 --> 01:15:10,590
Stop fuzzing me.

1884
01:15:12,130 --> 01:15:12,830
Yeah.

1885
01:15:12,910 --> 01:15:13,150
Yeah.

1886
01:15:13,150 --> 01:15:15,350
That's a, a marital fuzzer is what it

1887
01:15:15,350 --> 01:15:15,700
is.

1888
01:15:16,330 --> 01:15:17,490
Oh, beautiful.

1889
01:15:18,370 --> 01:15:19,730
Seals and laces back again.

1890
01:15:19,850 --> 01:15:20,630
One, two, three, four.

1891
01:15:21,410 --> 01:15:23,230
Uh, through founding, he says, Dave said no

1892
01:15:23,230 --> 01:15:25,010
one under 30 or whatever number he said

1893
01:15:25,010 --> 01:15:26,870
doesn't use eggs and used Instagram.

1894
01:15:27,130 --> 01:15:28,090
I'm 25.

1895
01:15:28,210 --> 01:15:30,390
I'm probably addicted to eggs, but not using

1896
01:15:30,390 --> 01:15:30,810
Instagram.

1897
01:15:30,810 --> 01:15:32,850
And I see many people similar age and

1898
01:15:32,850 --> 01:15:35,510
younger use eggs, maybe just nerds, developers, gamers

1899
01:15:35,510 --> 01:15:36,810
and other weirdos.

1900
01:15:36,870 --> 01:15:42,430
We'll see part of CLAs part of one

1901
01:15:42,430 --> 01:15:45,530
of the, one of the privileges you gain

1902
01:15:45,530 --> 01:15:49,090
when you get to be, you know, old

1903
01:15:49,090 --> 01:15:52,810
in your old of any caliber is that

1904
01:15:52,810 --> 01:15:56,090
you get to just say things like no

1905
01:15:56,090 --> 01:15:57,870
one under 30 dot, dot, dot.

1906
01:15:58,010 --> 01:15:58,190
Yeah.

1907
01:15:58,470 --> 01:16:00,590
You don't have to have justification approved.

1908
01:16:00,770 --> 01:16:01,790
You just get to say it.

1909
01:16:01,850 --> 01:16:02,370
It's a right.

1910
01:16:02,590 --> 01:16:04,130
It's, it's, it's a human right.

1911
01:16:04,350 --> 01:16:04,750
Exactly.

1912
01:16:05,370 --> 01:16:05,610
Yeah.

1913
01:16:05,630 --> 01:16:07,070
And you just have to, and you as

1914
01:16:07,070 --> 01:16:08,710
an under, as an under 30, you just

1915
01:16:08,710 --> 01:16:09,410
have to take it.

1916
01:16:09,690 --> 01:16:11,010
Take it, take it like a man.

1917
01:16:11,310 --> 01:16:11,710
Yeah.

1918
01:16:11,710 --> 01:16:12,790
Take it and like it.

1919
01:16:14,130 --> 01:16:15,790
CLAs again, four, three, two, one.

1920
01:16:15,890 --> 01:16:18,270
He says, uh, four, three, two, one sats

1921
01:16:18,270 --> 01:16:18,590
through found.

1922
01:16:18,630 --> 01:16:20,390
He says, get to work is actually a

1923
01:16:20,390 --> 01:16:21,030
good motivation.

1924
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:23,230
It's not like I haven't been coding.

1925
01:16:23,370 --> 01:16:24,890
I just didn't spend a lot of time

1926
01:16:24,890 --> 01:16:28,930
on bounce pad anymore after realizing most podcast

1927
01:16:28,930 --> 01:16:30,990
app developers can kind of take back in

1928
01:16:30,990 --> 01:16:31,610
the costs.

1929
01:16:31,610 --> 01:16:33,710
And then that's it, which is too small

1930
01:16:33,710 --> 01:16:34,050
for me.

1931
01:16:34,050 --> 01:16:35,750
I think I don't need to build Facebook

1932
01:16:35,750 --> 01:16:38,070
level things, but a thing with barely any

1933
01:16:38,070 --> 01:16:39,430
users isn't fun either.

1934
01:16:39,430 --> 01:16:41,650
I was supposed to build it out a

1935
01:16:41,650 --> 01:16:43,350
bit more and then get on a call

1936
01:16:43,350 --> 01:16:45,330
with Todd because he wanted a specific thing

1937
01:16:45,330 --> 01:16:47,150
built to integrate with, but then his passing

1938
01:16:47,150 --> 01:16:49,610
was basically stopped me fully for now.

1939
01:16:49,670 --> 01:16:52,390
What qualifies someone to get on the show?

1940
01:16:52,970 --> 01:16:54,250
Well, there's no qualification.

1941
01:16:54,590 --> 01:16:56,570
Let me just product helps.

1942
01:16:57,350 --> 01:16:57,790
Yeah.

1943
01:16:57,790 --> 01:16:58,650
Having something to talk about.

1944
01:16:59,170 --> 01:16:59,610
Yeah.

1945
01:16:59,810 --> 01:17:01,890
It qualifies when you have something to talk

1946
01:17:01,890 --> 01:17:02,190
about.

1947
01:17:02,250 --> 01:17:03,390
So let us know what you want to

1948
01:17:03,390 --> 01:17:03,850
talk about.

1949
01:17:03,910 --> 01:17:06,850
We are, we are open and, um, and

1950
01:17:06,850 --> 01:17:08,230
equitable, equitable.

1951
01:17:08,230 --> 01:17:09,670
If you, I mean, if you're, if you're

1952
01:17:09,670 --> 01:17:11,690
developing stuff and doing stuff with podcasting and

1953
01:17:11,690 --> 01:17:12,550
two dot oh, come on the show.

1954
01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:13,350
Yeah, for sure.

1955
01:17:14,250 --> 01:17:15,470
Doors open, hit us up.

1956
01:17:15,650 --> 01:17:16,490
DMs are open.

1957
01:17:17,190 --> 01:17:18,330
Hit me up.

1958
01:17:19,390 --> 01:17:23,550
Comic strip blogger, delimiter, the perpetual delimiter 14

1959
01:17:23,550 --> 01:17:25,530
0 1 5 through fountain.

1960
01:17:25,630 --> 01:17:28,630
He says, howdy fellow bit corners, Adam and

1961
01:17:28,630 --> 01:17:31,330
Dave, this promo written by grok based on

1962
01:17:31,330 --> 01:17:31,990
his website.

1963
01:17:31,990 --> 01:17:35,490
Join Martin Lindeskog as he navigates the gig

1964
01:17:35,490 --> 01:17:40,290
economy, sharing candid stories, triumphs and hacks from

1965
01:17:40,290 --> 01:17:42,730
podcasting trends to LinkedIn strategies.

1966
01:17:43,230 --> 01:17:45,370
Get inspired to thrive as a freelancer.

1967
01:17:46,110 --> 01:17:48,370
Tune in for insights and community vibes.

1968
01:17:48,870 --> 01:17:52,450
Listen now at gig.elitoo.com or search

1969
01:17:52,450 --> 01:17:55,230
in podcasting 2.0 apps for swing that

1970
01:17:55,230 --> 01:17:57,010
gig exclamation point.

1971
01:17:57,270 --> 01:17:59,690
Yo, CSB AI arch wizard.

1972
01:17:59,690 --> 01:18:02,470
Of course, he's an arch wizard.

1973
01:18:03,590 --> 01:18:06,590
He's interesting to see what the vibe coders

1974
01:18:06,590 --> 01:18:06,770
do.

1975
01:18:06,870 --> 01:18:08,290
I mean, I think Chad F is basically

1976
01:18:08,290 --> 01:18:09,110
a vibe coder.

1977
01:18:09,830 --> 01:18:11,070
I believe he is.

1978
01:18:11,230 --> 01:18:12,910
I want to ask you this as, as,

1979
01:18:13,110 --> 01:18:15,050
as, I mean, I've, I consider you to

1980
01:18:15,050 --> 01:18:17,050
be a certified vibe coder at this point.

1981
01:18:17,170 --> 01:18:18,710
I, I, I, I concur.

1982
01:18:21,010 --> 01:18:26,330
My question is, do you know, no, I

1983
01:18:26,330 --> 01:18:28,210
know sort of the answer to this already.

1984
01:18:28,210 --> 01:18:30,590
I know that you are part of what

1985
01:18:30,590 --> 01:18:32,150
you're going to say is that you do

1986
01:18:32,150 --> 01:18:34,750
this because you, of the pure enjoyment of

1987
01:18:34,750 --> 01:18:35,030
it.

1988
01:18:36,750 --> 01:18:39,590
But the other side of this question is,

1989
01:18:41,450 --> 01:18:48,590
would you, do you think that vibe coding

1990
01:18:48,590 --> 01:18:55,770
this product that you've created, do you think

1991
01:18:55,770 --> 01:18:58,270
that it has gone any faster than it

1992
01:18:58,270 --> 01:19:00,770
would have if you would have had a

1993
01:19:00,770 --> 01:19:03,370
developer to communicate with and build the product

1994
01:19:03,370 --> 01:19:04,750
per your instructions?

1995
01:19:05,930 --> 01:19:07,530
I've thought about this a lot.

1996
01:19:10,690 --> 01:19:12,790
It would not be the product that I

1997
01:19:12,790 --> 01:19:16,950
wanted you and I now we've worked together

1998
01:19:16,950 --> 01:19:17,890
for a long time.

1999
01:19:18,250 --> 01:19:21,130
So I think that what I've spent now,

2000
01:19:21,290 --> 01:19:24,010
the product has a number of different angles

2001
01:19:24,010 --> 01:19:24,510
to it.

2002
01:19:24,610 --> 01:19:26,850
There's an, there's a bunch of different pieces

2003
01:19:26,850 --> 01:19:29,610
that you could say is all part of

2004
01:19:29,610 --> 01:19:31,850
the same product, but it's kind of separate

2005
01:19:31,850 --> 01:19:32,450
products.

2006
01:19:34,770 --> 01:19:37,450
Um, because we've done this, we, we built,

2007
01:19:37,590 --> 01:19:38,810
we built Freedom Controller.

2008
01:19:40,190 --> 01:19:43,750
And, and of course, what was most beautiful

2009
01:19:43,750 --> 01:19:48,050
about Freedom Controller is that your creativity went

2010
01:19:48,050 --> 01:19:48,450
in there.

2011
01:19:50,030 --> 01:19:53,230
Um, and we had lots of conversations like,

2012
01:19:53,370 --> 01:19:53,890
how about this?

2013
01:19:53,950 --> 01:19:54,530
Let's try this.

2014
01:19:54,590 --> 01:19:55,210
Let's try that.

2015
01:19:55,210 --> 01:20:00,970
But ultimately your creativity was what created the

2016
01:20:00,970 --> 01:20:04,490
end product with my input, what I have

2017
01:20:04,490 --> 01:20:08,430
built, the end result, which is streaming products,

2018
01:20:08,570 --> 01:20:14,770
live takeover products, a proxy for metadata and,

2019
01:20:15,150 --> 01:20:16,870
uh, uh, something else.

2020
01:20:17,350 --> 01:20:21,990
Um, we could have probably built this in

2021
01:20:21,990 --> 01:20:23,510
three weeks time together.

2022
01:20:25,550 --> 01:20:28,730
But because of the vibe coding aspect, the

2023
01:20:28,730 --> 01:20:32,790
way it came together, I didn't even envision

2024
01:20:32,790 --> 01:20:34,910
it to be doing what it does.

2025
01:20:36,070 --> 01:20:39,450
I mean, it's, it's mind blowing what came

2026
01:20:39,450 --> 01:20:41,510
out of this and I'll give an example.

2027
01:20:42,510 --> 01:20:46,010
So as I'm, and this, this was the

2028
01:20:46,010 --> 01:20:47,830
first time I was really blown away by

2029
01:20:47,830 --> 01:20:48,570
the vibe coding.

2030
01:20:48,730 --> 01:20:50,470
And of course it comes from something in

2031
01:20:50,470 --> 01:20:52,850
the corpus and Lord knows how it got

2032
01:20:52,850 --> 01:20:55,070
in there or how it, how, how it

2033
01:20:55,070 --> 01:20:56,570
wound up in my project.

2034
01:20:57,350 --> 01:20:59,830
Um, so it's a streaming radio station system.

2035
01:20:59,890 --> 01:21:01,270
Very, very simple.

2036
01:21:01,630 --> 01:21:05,370
That's intended for really for churches and ministries.

2037
01:21:05,370 --> 01:21:09,150
If, if you're managing a YouTube channel and

2038
01:21:09,150 --> 01:21:11,950
an Instagram thing, and you're doing live streams,

2039
01:21:11,950 --> 01:21:14,050
you should technically, if you have a little

2040
01:21:14,050 --> 01:21:17,270
bit of understanding of scheduling, then you should

2041
01:21:17,270 --> 01:21:18,590
be able to use this product.

2042
01:21:20,310 --> 01:21:22,490
And, um, and so I gave it to,

2043
01:21:22,630 --> 01:21:24,150
I don't think you've had time to really

2044
01:21:24,150 --> 01:21:25,610
mess around with it, but I gave it

2045
01:21:25,610 --> 01:21:26,070
to Gordon.

2046
01:21:26,210 --> 01:21:28,890
Gordon's a long time radio guy.

2047
01:21:29,750 --> 01:21:32,710
And, um, and so I got some valuable

2048
01:21:32,710 --> 01:21:33,670
feedback from him.

2049
01:21:33,690 --> 01:21:36,450
And so there's a, there's a page that,

2050
01:21:36,550 --> 01:21:39,330
you know, so there's basically production, a scheduling

2051
01:21:39,330 --> 01:21:41,790
page where you schedule everything, whether you want,

2052
01:21:42,070 --> 01:21:44,550
you know, your lineup hour to hour, what

2053
01:21:44,550 --> 01:21:47,130
elements you want in there, your format, as

2054
01:21:47,130 --> 01:21:48,110
we would say in radio.

2055
01:21:48,590 --> 01:21:50,550
If you want to see, you know, most

2056
01:21:50,550 --> 01:21:52,830
recent episode from an RSS feed to play

2057
01:21:52,830 --> 01:21:53,690
at a certain time.

2058
01:21:54,650 --> 01:21:56,430
And so that's kind of the, the, the,

2059
01:21:56,790 --> 01:21:58,190
that's what people are doing most of the

2060
01:21:58,190 --> 01:22:00,270
time, but then there's also a studio page.

2061
01:22:00,290 --> 01:22:03,250
And I built the studio page, um, because

2062
01:22:03,250 --> 01:22:07,070
not everybody is able to, um, get someone

2063
01:22:07,070 --> 01:22:08,610
to record a local report.

2064
01:22:08,610 --> 01:22:11,270
And so it's connected to 11 labs and

2065
01:22:11,270 --> 01:22:13,230
you just, you know, you, you copy paste

2066
01:22:13,230 --> 01:22:14,770
or you type it in whatever you want.

2067
01:22:15,970 --> 01:22:18,030
And, uh, and it spits it out and

2068
01:22:18,030 --> 01:22:19,110
you can preview it there.

2069
01:22:19,310 --> 01:22:21,690
And Gordon said, well, okay, I put it

2070
01:22:21,690 --> 01:22:22,930
in a folder, but what else is in

2071
01:22:22,930 --> 01:22:23,410
the folder?

2072
01:22:24,070 --> 01:22:25,650
Can I listen to the other things in

2073
01:22:25,650 --> 01:22:26,050
that folder?

2074
01:22:26,130 --> 01:22:27,830
Well, that's actually on a different page.

2075
01:22:28,870 --> 01:22:31,210
So I'm like, oh, I need to put

2076
01:22:31,210 --> 01:22:35,990
a preview section on this studio page so

2077
01:22:35,990 --> 01:22:39,190
that you can preview other stuff and determine

2078
01:22:39,190 --> 01:22:41,170
where you want to put your newly created

2079
01:22:41,170 --> 01:22:42,630
AI voice stuff into.

2080
01:22:43,310 --> 01:22:47,030
And without me asking for it, it automatically,

2081
01:22:48,370 --> 01:22:51,470
um, when you create a new report, let's

2082
01:22:51,470 --> 01:22:52,630
say, and you want it to be in

2083
01:22:52,630 --> 01:22:55,670
the local folder, the local bin, as it

2084
01:22:55,670 --> 01:22:59,570
were, the preview section automatically selects that bin

2085
01:22:59,570 --> 01:23:02,370
and that file that you just created negating

2086
01:23:02,370 --> 01:23:05,330
the whole necessity for having a separate player

2087
01:23:05,330 --> 01:23:07,570
pop up to preview what you just did.

2088
01:23:08,010 --> 01:23:10,730
It was something that I loved it.

2089
01:23:10,730 --> 01:23:11,510
I'm like, wow.

2090
01:23:12,190 --> 01:23:15,210
And actually against all my rules, it went,

2091
01:23:15,710 --> 01:23:16,310
good job.

2092
01:23:18,450 --> 01:23:20,350
I was so happy with it.

2093
01:23:20,470 --> 01:23:23,250
And that, and that was something that I

2094
01:23:23,250 --> 01:23:26,490
don't know if that would have come up

2095
01:23:26,490 --> 01:23:27,670
if you and I were working on it

2096
01:23:27,670 --> 01:23:28,010
together.

2097
01:23:28,250 --> 01:23:30,350
And there's, there's a lot of other small

2098
01:23:30,350 --> 01:23:31,170
little things.

2099
01:23:31,830 --> 01:23:34,110
Um, but time-wise, dude, I've been working

2100
01:23:34,110 --> 01:23:37,030
on this for almost eight months and, you

2101
01:23:37,030 --> 01:23:38,610
know, I started off with liquid soap.

2102
01:23:38,790 --> 01:23:39,570
I killed that.

2103
01:23:39,670 --> 01:23:42,730
And I wound up building with the Swiss

2104
01:23:42,730 --> 01:23:44,890
army knife of all things, audio and video

2105
01:23:44,890 --> 01:23:45,790
FFmpeg.

2106
01:23:46,390 --> 01:23:48,150
I want, and that was actually after podcast

2107
01:23:48,150 --> 01:23:50,850
movement, talking to Rocky and her husband, like,

2108
01:23:51,010 --> 01:23:52,610
oh man, you should, you know, you should

2109
01:23:52,610 --> 01:23:53,930
take a look at FFmpeg.

2110
01:23:54,350 --> 01:23:57,270
And it's, I mean, it's rock, rock solid.

2111
01:23:57,370 --> 01:24:00,290
It's, it's unbelievable how, how well that works

2112
01:24:00,290 --> 01:24:02,510
compared to, I mean, and I don't want

2113
01:24:02,510 --> 01:24:04,690
to get into a, you know, a religious

2114
01:24:04,690 --> 01:24:08,910
war about liquid soap versus FFmpeg, uh, but

2115
01:24:08,910 --> 01:24:11,010
the way it functions, how it works.

2116
01:24:12,550 --> 01:24:14,710
Um, I don't think it would have, it

2117
01:24:14,710 --> 01:24:16,030
would have been a great product.

2118
01:24:16,870 --> 01:24:18,570
Uh, but it wouldn't have been what I've

2119
01:24:18,570 --> 01:24:20,990
wound up with now, because I was just

2120
01:24:20,990 --> 01:24:22,850
jamming with the machine, you know, I'm just

2121
01:24:22,850 --> 01:24:24,030
like, oh, let me try that.

2122
01:24:24,090 --> 01:24:24,890
Oh, you give me this.

2123
01:24:24,970 --> 01:24:26,770
So it was a different kind of jam

2124
01:24:26,770 --> 01:24:28,630
than you and I would have had, but

2125
01:24:28,630 --> 01:24:30,190
we would have been done with this in

2126
01:24:30,190 --> 01:24:33,630
three weeks, guaranteed hands down, instead of six

2127
01:24:33,630 --> 01:24:34,310
to eight months.

2128
01:24:35,870 --> 01:24:39,030
So would you, I think what I hear,

2129
01:24:39,370 --> 01:24:40,630
I think what I'm hearing you say is

2130
01:24:40,630 --> 01:24:44,850
that the ability for you to do this

2131
01:24:44,850 --> 01:24:52,010
yourself, um, you're trading time for sort of

2132
01:24:52,010 --> 01:24:55,470
inspirational control over the end result.

2133
01:24:57,250 --> 01:25:00,810
Um, well, you're seeing things as you, since

2134
01:25:00,810 --> 01:25:03,270
you're, you're doing it and seeing things and

2135
01:25:03,270 --> 01:25:06,450
getting the feedback that inspires you to do

2136
01:25:06,450 --> 01:25:09,430
perhaps different things than you thought you intended

2137
01:25:09,430 --> 01:25:09,810
to.

2138
01:25:10,950 --> 01:25:11,590
Yes.

2139
01:25:11,650 --> 01:25:15,890
It's because it's so wonky and so crazy

2140
01:25:15,890 --> 01:25:18,930
and so like stuff that, I mean, once

2141
01:25:18,930 --> 01:25:21,170
I got over the, why did you change

2142
01:25:21,170 --> 01:25:23,530
something that I liked five hours ago?

2143
01:25:23,530 --> 01:25:27,410
And I figured out, okay, you can usually

2144
01:25:27,410 --> 01:25:28,830
stop it from doing that.

2145
01:25:29,430 --> 01:25:30,970
The things that would come out of it

2146
01:25:30,970 --> 01:25:32,990
sometimes were incredibly surprising.

2147
01:25:33,590 --> 01:25:34,930
I'm like, oh, oh, okay.

2148
01:25:35,150 --> 01:25:36,730
I can use that in this way.

2149
01:25:37,130 --> 01:25:39,090
So it was a, it's a very creative

2150
01:25:39,090 --> 01:25:41,130
process because I don't know what I'm doing.

2151
01:25:41,470 --> 01:25:43,310
If I just sat down and I, you

2152
01:25:43,310 --> 01:25:45,250
know, I, I went through the, the Python

2153
01:25:45,250 --> 01:25:48,310
course and I, and I learned everything and

2154
01:25:48,310 --> 01:25:50,550
all these bits and bobs, but you know,

2155
01:25:50,610 --> 01:25:53,270
it'll just pull, it'll pull in, um, a

2156
01:25:53,270 --> 01:25:55,630
library that I'd never, I'd never even heard

2157
01:25:55,630 --> 01:25:57,570
of or considered like, oh, that's interesting.

2158
01:25:58,170 --> 01:25:58,530
Okay.

2159
01:25:58,670 --> 01:26:00,650
Well, now I see that we can do

2160
01:26:00,650 --> 01:26:02,810
this in this way or we can add

2161
01:26:02,810 --> 01:26:03,030
this.

2162
01:26:03,110 --> 01:26:05,690
So it is a very creative aspect to

2163
01:26:05,690 --> 01:26:08,570
it, but it was like, you know, like,

2164
01:26:08,730 --> 01:26:12,230
uh, you know, like doing, um, pet sounds

2165
01:26:12,230 --> 01:26:16,250
album, you know, it's Brian Wilson, 15 years

2166
01:26:16,250 --> 01:26:17,270
to complete or whatever.

2167
01:26:17,830 --> 01:26:20,730
Um, so, so it is, I find it

2168
01:26:20,730 --> 01:26:23,210
very creative because I don't really know what

2169
01:26:23,210 --> 01:26:23,650
I'm doing.

2170
01:26:24,570 --> 01:26:26,710
And so what came out of it were

2171
01:26:26,710 --> 01:26:30,690
surprising, surprising things that perhaps someone who was,

2172
01:26:31,070 --> 01:26:34,670
um, you know, I, I kind of know

2173
01:26:34,670 --> 01:26:35,990
how you work and you set out a

2174
01:26:35,990 --> 01:26:36,990
plan, you structured.

2175
01:26:37,530 --> 01:26:39,790
And I mean, there's a lot of things

2176
01:26:39,790 --> 01:26:41,690
I can never achieve that you can do

2177
01:26:41,690 --> 01:26:42,090
never.

2178
01:26:42,090 --> 01:26:45,270
I mean, just the beautiful, like how you've

2179
01:26:45,270 --> 01:26:48,850
done the dashboard in Godcaster is such a

2180
01:26:48,850 --> 01:26:49,870
work of art.

2181
01:26:50,010 --> 01:26:51,610
So everything makes sense.

2182
01:26:51,990 --> 01:26:54,210
My dashboard is like, oh, okay.

2183
01:26:54,790 --> 01:26:57,050
You know, it feels like someone just threw

2184
01:26:57,050 --> 01:26:58,890
some spaghetti against the wall and it looks

2185
01:26:58,890 --> 01:26:59,990
kind of, that looks like art.

2186
01:27:00,070 --> 01:27:00,170
Yeah.

2187
01:27:00,170 --> 01:27:02,330
I'll keep it because there's not much I

2188
01:27:02,330 --> 01:27:03,950
can change because I just don't know what

2189
01:27:03,950 --> 01:27:04,450
I'm doing.

2190
01:27:05,710 --> 01:27:09,070
But aren't there old, successful, very, very successful

2191
01:27:09,070 --> 01:27:12,170
softwares that have like, I think of things

2192
01:27:12,170 --> 01:27:15,150
like e-tools and the UI is just

2193
01:27:15,150 --> 01:27:19,210
a complete disaster, but everybody, but it's like,

2194
01:27:19,230 --> 01:27:21,470
once you learn it, you can be highly

2195
01:27:21,470 --> 01:27:22,030
productive.

2196
01:27:23,030 --> 01:27:24,310
Well, and, and that's kind of where I

2197
01:27:24,310 --> 01:27:27,190
started because I looked at every single streaming

2198
01:27:27,190 --> 01:27:27,950
platform.

2199
01:27:28,530 --> 01:27:30,870
I looked at, you know, liquid soap has

2200
01:27:30,870 --> 01:27:31,830
a lot of UIs.

2201
01:27:33,490 --> 01:27:35,430
I want to say CentoCast.

2202
01:27:35,530 --> 01:27:37,230
I mean, there's all kinds of UIs that

2203
01:27:37,230 --> 01:27:39,010
have been on top of it and it's

2204
01:27:39,010 --> 01:27:41,230
just not how I wanted it to work.

2205
01:27:41,230 --> 01:27:44,030
I really just wanted it to be something.

2206
01:27:44,530 --> 01:27:47,570
In fact, the, where I started was, I

2207
01:27:47,570 --> 01:27:48,750
want you to be able to do this

2208
01:27:48,750 --> 01:27:51,490
from a Google calendar and that turned out

2209
01:27:51,490 --> 01:27:53,650
to not be so handy in the end,

2210
01:27:53,730 --> 01:27:55,330
but the idea was kind of good.

2211
01:27:55,730 --> 01:27:57,210
I remember that phase of you.

2212
01:27:57,430 --> 01:27:57,750
Yeah.

2213
01:27:57,870 --> 01:27:59,970
And, uh, and you know, I built the

2214
01:27:59,970 --> 01:28:02,490
bridge, the GCAL and all that stuff, but

2215
01:28:02,490 --> 01:28:04,410
it's just, yeah, it just didn't feel right.

2216
01:28:04,690 --> 01:28:05,290
That's a mess.

2217
01:28:05,690 --> 01:28:06,950
And then, you know, and I felt very

2218
01:28:06,950 --> 01:28:09,470
dependent upon, upon Google, of course.

2219
01:28:10,050 --> 01:28:13,490
Um, and, but what, what came out of

2220
01:28:13,490 --> 01:28:15,130
it is, is pretty close to, to what

2221
01:28:15,130 --> 01:28:15,450
I want.

2222
01:28:15,470 --> 01:28:17,630
I just want something very simple that doesn't

2223
01:28:17,630 --> 01:28:21,070
deal with, you know, format clocks and all

2224
01:28:21,070 --> 01:28:21,530
this stuff.

2225
01:28:21,530 --> 01:28:23,490
I want it to feel like a calendar,

2226
01:28:23,630 --> 01:28:26,350
like, okay, I understand every day at eight,

2227
01:28:26,350 --> 01:28:28,750
I want this devotional to run.

2228
01:28:28,790 --> 01:28:30,890
I want, you know, at the top of

2229
01:28:30,890 --> 01:28:33,290
the hour, I want Salem radio news.

2230
01:28:33,290 --> 01:28:35,350
And then I want a live break in

2231
01:28:35,350 --> 01:28:37,290
for the Sunday sermon, all this stuff.

2232
01:28:37,290 --> 01:28:39,550
And I, and I, it just came out

2233
01:28:39,550 --> 01:28:40,770
kind of the way I want it, but

2234
01:28:40,770 --> 01:28:44,530
to just through constant re-recording, if you

2235
01:28:44,530 --> 01:28:44,750
will.

2236
01:28:44,810 --> 01:28:45,930
It's like, this track's no good.

2237
01:28:45,970 --> 01:28:46,730
Let's do it again.

2238
01:28:46,830 --> 01:28:47,270
All right.

2239
01:28:47,350 --> 01:28:49,590
But now, now I've got this mix is

2240
01:28:49,590 --> 01:28:51,390
good over here, but now it sounds crap

2241
01:28:51,390 --> 01:28:52,330
with this track in it.

2242
01:28:52,430 --> 01:29:00,130
So it feels very creative, but I personally

2243
01:29:00,130 --> 01:29:01,710
would have preferred to have done it with

2244
01:29:01,710 --> 01:29:02,170
you.

2245
01:29:03,130 --> 01:29:05,630
I would, because we've done it before and,

2246
01:29:05,630 --> 01:29:06,930
and I, and I love how we work

2247
01:29:06,930 --> 01:29:08,610
together, but you know, you're, you're working on

2248
01:29:08,610 --> 01:29:09,190
other things.

2249
01:29:09,290 --> 01:29:10,730
So it was out of necessity that I

2250
01:29:10,730 --> 01:29:13,130
did this, not because I was so gung

2251
01:29:13,130 --> 01:29:15,110
ho on becoming a developer.

2252
01:29:16,310 --> 01:29:17,870
But yeah, I mean, I've been meaning to

2253
01:29:17,870 --> 01:29:18,470
ask you about that.

2254
01:29:18,470 --> 01:29:21,470
Cause it's interesting to like from, from a,

2255
01:29:22,830 --> 01:29:26,690
there are times when trading time for other

2256
01:29:27,350 --> 01:29:28,670
things makes sense.

2257
01:29:29,170 --> 01:29:29,610
Yeah.

2258
01:29:29,930 --> 01:29:32,870
And I was curious as to if that

2259
01:29:32,870 --> 01:29:36,130
was the act, sort of an active thing

2260
01:29:36,130 --> 01:29:40,390
in this case, cause you're, I agree with

2261
01:29:40,390 --> 01:29:40,510
you.

2262
01:29:40,550 --> 01:29:42,810
I think you, you, you have to live

2263
01:29:42,810 --> 01:29:44,790
with a product in a way, like when

2264
01:29:44,790 --> 01:29:46,990
you, if you're building it, you're just going

2265
01:29:46,990 --> 01:29:49,870
to see things that, you know, in a

2266
01:29:49,870 --> 01:29:51,530
way there it's, it's two, there's two sides

2267
01:29:51,530 --> 01:29:51,810
to it.

2268
01:29:51,810 --> 01:29:53,730
Like if you're building it, you see things

2269
01:29:53,730 --> 01:29:55,270
that the user will not see.

2270
01:29:55,450 --> 01:29:55,670
Right.

2271
01:29:55,670 --> 01:29:57,470
And if you're using it, you're going to

2272
01:29:57,470 --> 01:29:59,330
see things that the developer's not going to

2273
01:29:59,330 --> 01:30:00,790
see because they're too close to it.

2274
01:30:01,030 --> 01:30:01,130
Yeah.

2275
01:30:01,570 --> 01:30:06,430
And so like you're, you're, you don't normally

2276
01:30:06,430 --> 01:30:08,250
see it from the developer side.

2277
01:30:08,250 --> 01:30:10,850
And so you're having seen it, like doing

2278
01:30:10,850 --> 01:30:15,150
it from that side of things is, I

2279
01:30:15,150 --> 01:30:17,110
think, I think one thing you, one thing

2280
01:30:17,110 --> 01:30:18,790
about the way you approach things as well

2281
01:30:18,790 --> 01:30:22,410
is that you tend to look at something

2282
01:30:22,410 --> 01:30:25,590
visually and kind of, you visualize something and

2283
01:30:25,590 --> 01:30:28,330
you immediately get like an explosion of ideas.

2284
01:30:29,010 --> 01:30:29,410
Yeah.

2285
01:30:29,970 --> 01:30:31,010
This is true, right?

2286
01:30:31,170 --> 01:30:31,410
Yes.

2287
01:30:31,650 --> 01:30:32,030
Yes.

2288
01:30:32,490 --> 01:30:34,510
You, but you, cause you do this all

2289
01:30:34,510 --> 01:30:34,810
the time.

2290
01:30:34,830 --> 01:30:36,550
You're like, Hey, I just saw so-and

2291
01:30:36,550 --> 01:30:38,550
-so, you know, we could do this and

2292
01:30:38,550 --> 01:30:39,350
this and this and this and this.

2293
01:30:39,550 --> 01:30:40,770
I mean, you just, like, there's just like

2294
01:30:40,770 --> 01:30:42,070
an orgasm of explode.

2295
01:30:42,510 --> 01:30:43,510
Ah, there it is.

2296
01:30:43,530 --> 01:30:44,750
An orgasm of ideas.

2297
01:30:44,870 --> 01:30:45,270
Okay.

2298
01:30:45,450 --> 01:30:45,850
Yes.

2299
01:30:46,450 --> 01:30:48,690
Um, that, that happened.

2300
01:30:48,790 --> 01:30:53,270
And then, but, but when you see it

2301
01:30:53,270 --> 01:30:55,990
as a developer, you can actually test the

2302
01:30:55,990 --> 01:30:57,150
idea like immediately.

2303
01:30:57,430 --> 01:30:57,710
Yes.

2304
01:30:58,230 --> 01:31:01,990
You don't have to like hope and explain

2305
01:31:01,990 --> 01:31:02,790
it to somebody.

2306
01:31:03,330 --> 01:31:05,330
You can just immediately like boom, boom, boom,

2307
01:31:05,390 --> 01:31:05,690
boom, boom.

2308
01:31:05,750 --> 01:31:07,350
And then you feel like, then you find

2309
01:31:07,350 --> 01:31:08,230
out, ah, that's not going to work.

2310
01:31:08,270 --> 01:31:08,850
Ah, that's not going to work.

2311
01:31:08,890 --> 01:31:10,110
Oh, wait, that, that works.

2312
01:31:10,190 --> 01:31:10,470
You know?

2313
01:31:11,150 --> 01:31:11,510
Yeah.

2314
01:31:11,590 --> 01:31:12,250
That's interesting.

2315
01:31:12,250 --> 01:31:15,930
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm in, I have enjoyed

2316
01:31:15,930 --> 01:31:17,310
watching you do all this.

2317
01:31:18,150 --> 01:31:20,630
Well, uh, and I will say for those

2318
01:31:20,630 --> 01:31:24,310
who are interested, um, I, I actually asked

2319
01:31:24,310 --> 01:31:26,750
God, why are you putting me through this?

2320
01:31:29,290 --> 01:31:30,730
That's, that's my prayer.

2321
01:31:30,790 --> 01:31:31,890
Maybe three or four times a week.

2322
01:31:32,010 --> 01:31:32,370
Yes.

2323
01:31:32,430 --> 01:31:34,290
And, uh, and interesting.

2324
01:31:34,410 --> 01:31:36,210
And this was a several months ago after

2325
01:31:36,210 --> 01:31:38,010
I kind of completed the first phase and,

2326
01:31:38,150 --> 01:31:40,090
and the word I got back was, I

2327
01:31:40,090 --> 01:31:42,310
wanted you to understand what AI is and

2328
01:31:42,310 --> 01:31:43,770
what it can and what it can't do.

2329
01:31:44,390 --> 01:31:45,890
And that was, I was like, wow.

2330
01:31:46,030 --> 01:31:46,390
Okay.

2331
01:31:46,510 --> 01:31:50,050
That's very helpful because, and, and also I'm

2332
01:31:50,050 --> 01:31:53,510
just like, I'm, I'm amazed at this period

2333
01:31:53,510 --> 01:31:54,890
of time that we can do this for

2334
01:31:54,890 --> 01:31:56,010
$20 a month.

2335
01:31:56,130 --> 01:31:57,870
I'm just blown away by it.

2336
01:31:57,890 --> 01:32:00,970
And I'm, I'm afraid for the day will

2337
01:32:00,970 --> 01:32:03,090
come, you know, when it's like, well, the

2338
01:32:03,090 --> 01:32:04,990
only business model we have is to charge

2339
01:32:04,990 --> 01:32:05,970
you what it really costs.

2340
01:32:05,970 --> 01:32:08,190
You know, I, I, I just like what,

2341
01:32:08,290 --> 01:32:11,290
what an amazing $350 a month, you know,

2342
01:32:11,290 --> 01:32:13,210
it's, it's an amazing time to be alive,

2343
01:32:13,210 --> 01:32:14,410
to be able to do this.

2344
01:32:15,090 --> 01:32:17,170
Um, well, by the time that day comes,

2345
01:32:17,170 --> 01:32:20,590
we'll have enough or we'll have an enough

2346
01:32:20,590 --> 01:32:23,990
horsepower to just do it at home because

2347
01:32:23,990 --> 01:32:26,230
I have actually, I have tried that and

2348
01:32:26,230 --> 01:32:27,330
it does actually work.

2349
01:32:27,630 --> 01:32:29,230
I mean, I've, I've done, I've done a

2350
01:32:29,230 --> 01:32:31,110
couple of, uh, you know, a couple of

2351
01:32:31,110 --> 01:32:34,390
small pieces of the coding, um, on my,

2352
01:32:34,510 --> 01:32:37,210
uh, on my own, uh, start nine that

2353
01:32:37,210 --> 01:32:38,750
has, uh, you know, was it the web,

2354
01:32:39,030 --> 01:32:40,070
web, what does that call?

2355
01:32:40,190 --> 01:32:42,290
WebView, WebGBT, you know, what is it called?

2356
01:32:42,450 --> 01:32:42,850
Yeah, right.

2357
01:32:42,950 --> 01:32:43,690
Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

2358
01:32:43,710 --> 01:32:45,190
You can just load them up and you

2359
01:32:45,190 --> 01:32:46,750
can, yeah, yeah.

2360
01:32:46,750 --> 01:32:48,650
You can load the models in there and

2361
01:32:48,650 --> 01:32:50,310
it spits back code and like, oh, that's

2362
01:32:50,310 --> 01:32:51,690
pretty cool, but it took forever.

2363
01:32:52,530 --> 01:32:53,190
Yeah, it's slow.

2364
01:32:53,470 --> 01:32:55,090
You have to have some, you have to

2365
01:32:55,090 --> 01:32:56,030
have a decent GPU.

2366
01:32:56,270 --> 01:32:56,470
Yeah.

2367
01:32:56,550 --> 01:32:58,370
So, you know, that, that, that didn't work,

2368
01:32:58,410 --> 01:32:59,210
but yeah, yeah.

2369
01:32:59,270 --> 01:33:00,470
That, that day will come.

2370
01:33:00,530 --> 01:33:00,950
We'll see.

2371
01:33:01,830 --> 01:33:02,190
Wow.

2372
01:33:02,270 --> 01:33:02,510
Okay.

2373
01:33:02,510 --> 01:33:06,170
Brother Dave, uh, what are you doing?

2374
01:33:06,210 --> 01:33:08,030
You hanging out this weekend, taking some time

2375
01:33:08,030 --> 01:33:08,250
off?

2376
01:33:08,410 --> 01:33:09,990
We have a very busy weekend.

2377
01:33:10,110 --> 01:33:12,930
We're going to a rock climbing competition for

2378
01:33:12,930 --> 01:33:14,150
my daughter in Atlanta.

2379
01:33:14,350 --> 01:33:15,790
We'll probably be going all day tomorrow.

2380
01:33:16,050 --> 01:33:16,750
All right.

2381
01:33:16,790 --> 01:33:19,090
And then, uh, we're going with them.

2382
01:33:19,310 --> 01:33:23,270
My daughter has, um, she's 15.

2383
01:33:23,350 --> 01:33:26,510
She started, she's, she teaches part-time at,

2384
01:33:26,850 --> 01:33:31,730
uh, a local, uh, outfit called the, uh,

2385
01:33:32,410 --> 01:33:33,770
Firehouse Community Arts Center.

2386
01:33:34,110 --> 01:33:34,630
Oh, wow.

2387
01:33:34,830 --> 01:33:37,270
And they teach, uh, she teaches kids how

2388
01:33:37,270 --> 01:33:38,450
to play instruments.

2389
01:33:39,190 --> 01:33:40,770
And so she, they, yeah, they have a

2390
01:33:40,770 --> 01:33:42,650
big block party about three times a year.

2391
01:33:42,690 --> 01:33:44,810
And so all the kids form into bands

2392
01:33:44,810 --> 01:33:45,310
and play.

2393
01:33:45,430 --> 01:33:46,250
Oh, that's cool.

2394
01:33:46,670 --> 01:33:48,190
And they play their favorite tunes.

2395
01:33:48,330 --> 01:33:51,070
And so she's playing is she, her band

2396
01:33:51,070 --> 01:33:52,770
is playing, and then she's playing on about,

2397
01:33:52,770 --> 01:33:55,050
she's playing bass on one song and drums

2398
01:33:55,050 --> 01:33:55,610
on another song.

2399
01:33:55,650 --> 01:33:56,870
So that's a, that's an all day affair

2400
01:33:56,870 --> 01:33:57,110
too.

2401
01:33:57,250 --> 01:33:58,670
So I love that the kids are still

2402
01:33:58,670 --> 01:34:00,570
playing music at all, ma'am, these days.

2403
01:34:00,570 --> 01:34:02,790
They only play music from the old, they

2404
01:34:02,790 --> 01:34:04,110
only play old music.

2405
01:34:04,490 --> 01:34:07,550
They, they, they, nobody plays anything new.

2406
01:34:07,870 --> 01:34:09,770
They all love the oldies.

2407
01:34:10,070 --> 01:34:13,450
Like eighties, oldies, seventies, oldies, sixties, oldies.

2408
01:34:13,550 --> 01:34:14,370
What kind of oldies?

2409
01:34:14,710 --> 01:34:16,450
You, you go to this, you go to

2410
01:34:16,450 --> 01:34:17,110
the block party.

2411
01:34:17,270 --> 01:34:20,170
On the last one, I heard, uh, War

2412
01:34:20,170 --> 01:34:25,390
Pigs, uh, the, um, the song that, uh,

2413
01:34:25,390 --> 01:34:27,490
duet between Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers.

2414
01:34:28,310 --> 01:34:29,230
Islands in the sun.

2415
01:34:29,650 --> 01:34:30,410
Islands in the sun.

2416
01:34:30,530 --> 01:34:30,630
Yeah.

2417
01:34:31,110 --> 01:34:33,330
That, uh, that there was an old, uh,

2418
01:34:33,330 --> 01:34:34,890
old radio head song.

2419
01:34:35,250 --> 01:34:35,650
Wow.

2420
01:34:35,770 --> 01:34:39,170
Uh, there was a David Bowie, uh, star

2421
01:34:39,170 --> 01:34:39,730
man.

2422
01:34:40,170 --> 01:34:41,610
It's really old stuff.

2423
01:34:41,790 --> 01:34:42,530
Holy crap.

2424
01:34:42,610 --> 01:34:43,530
That's amazing.

2425
01:34:44,910 --> 01:34:47,030
Probably the newest song I heard was from

2426
01:34:47,030 --> 01:34:48,010
like 2000.

2427
01:34:48,590 --> 01:34:49,870
That gives me hope, brother.

2428
01:34:50,310 --> 01:34:51,390
That gives me a lot of hope.

2429
01:34:51,530 --> 01:34:51,910
I'm loving that.

2430
01:34:51,910 --> 01:34:53,390
Even the kids, the kids may listen to

2431
01:34:53,390 --> 01:34:54,550
new music, but they don't want to play

2432
01:34:54,550 --> 01:34:54,710
it.

2433
01:34:56,030 --> 01:34:56,690
All right.

2434
01:34:56,710 --> 01:34:57,710
You have a good weekend.

2435
01:34:57,710 --> 01:34:58,870
Bored room.

2436
01:34:59,010 --> 01:35:00,450
Thank you very much for being here.

2437
01:35:00,570 --> 01:35:01,590
Remember to support us.

2438
01:35:01,670 --> 01:35:03,030
Podcast index.org.

2439
01:35:03,090 --> 01:35:04,990
We'll be back next Friday with another board

2440
01:35:04,990 --> 01:35:06,130
meeting of podcasting.

2441
01:35:06,290 --> 01:35:23,210
2.0. You

2442
01:35:23,210 --> 01:35:27,650
have been listening to podcasting 2.0. Visit

2443
01:35:27,650 --> 01:35:30,930
podcastindex.org for more information.

2444
01:35:31,190 --> 01:35:32,790
Go podcasting.

2445
01:35:33,550 --> 01:35:35,250
He just roasted my chestnuts.