podcasting 2.0 February 26 2021 Episode 26 were Manning battle
stations
going to war anything just man in the battle stations why the
hell not? time once again for a Friday show I love the Fridays
not because I get the podcast but because it's time for a
board meeting of podcast index.org podcasting 2.0 I'm
Adam curry in Austin, Texas and in Alabama the man who writes
prose as well as he codes my friend on the other end Dave
Jones
gonna make it to cosmic weenie one of these days. I'm getting
there.
Don't get too excited about it.
It's my goal.
To go straight to the top.
Yes, everybody time once again to get down to business. What it
is Mark Cuban has a What was the name of his service this week?
Well, I think if I'm reading the headlines you just invented
reinvented me. Guy is such a typical venture capitalist kind
of douche.
Oh, fireside that somebody has already been using that for for
a decade. Yeah, podcasting 2.0.
Now, did he actually say that? Or was that just I have a
feeling it might have been like a one line throw away. He had
somewhere in in some zoom conference.
I don't know. I just like I'm such a stickler about don't
read. Don't just read a headline, read the entire
article. And I forced myself to do that. But I saw that and I
was like, I don't want to read I don't want to read.
I don't want to read that.
I would rather just make fun of it. You know? Well, it
is it is fantastically interesting to me the clubhouse
phenomenon.
Yeah.
But, you know, to me, it's like, who was I talking to? I was
talking to, to gene and Gene Has it ever got pushed back up a
little bit? So gene, a friend of mine, and he's been on he's been
kind of looking at podcast index or doing he was on the on the
mastodon and I forget what it was exactly, but we were
celebrating some some when in a thread like, Hey, you know, this
work? And then he popped in with? Well, you know, like, my
mom couldn't figure it out. It's no good. And I just gave him
shit right then and there. So ever since then, of course, he's
completely entrenched in podcasting. 2.0 has a podcast
has chapters, has images, is doing transcripts is excited
about the satoshis.
Yes, like a cat, neither they the more the more you abuse
them, the more they love you. I mean, kick them down the stairs,
get out of the way that they just want to know love and lay
in your lap. Now, were you abused Jean. And now I know he's
loved us all in
now. Why was it bringing him up again? What were we talking
about?
That? Oh, no, come on.
No, no. So then I was talking to him on the phone about about
podcasting. 2.0 and clubhouse. And he said, you know, clubhouse
is kind of like, what you go into a room, and there's all
these podcasts. And you click on one and it drops you right in
the middle of the conversation. And it's a great way, you know,
to sample stuff. And if you want to, you can hang around now you
can't rewind and go back to the beginning, but you can hang out.
And I said, so it's kind of like a push button podcast
experience. You said yes. That Yes. It's a lot like that. I
said, Well, have you seen caste coverage? And I finally
remembered the name. Cast coverage, calm. Anyone over
there. So not just just hit it. And he said, Oh, it dropped me
into a random podcast. With the bright in the middle. I said
yes. Hit it again. Oh, and look at building up a playlist so you
can remember what you listened to out. So I'm thinking of that
and I just want to throw it out there that that's you know, cast
coverage. Why just call it clubhouse coverage? Everyone
seems to be my name is Khalid clubhouse coverage. And then
just have you have it worked the same way. And even. Even pod
friend has pod friender. Although it doesn't, I don't
think it drops you into the middle of a podcast randomly.
But you can swipe left, swipe right if you'd like what you
hear
that needs to be that that needs to be an option like a
preference is like also, jaw drop me into a random podcast,
but also drop me at a random needle drop.
You know, exactly the Neato drugs actually. Exactly. And I
think I think that's, it could be a standalone app. I swear to
God just called clubhouse for podcast. And and it would it I
love what is possible with the index. Yeah, we just need people
to free themselves and see what's possible. Yeah, break out
of the mold.
Like I was reading about clubhouse a little bit this past
week. I didn't realize that they were being so aggressive with
stealing. your address book?
Oh, yeah, you can't invite anyone unless you upload it as
what I understand.
Yeah. I mean, they just suck that entire thing off your
phone, which still, which still kind of is still ticks me off a
little bit or concerns me a little bit about signal because
they do the same thing.
Well, I've been told that that is not true. And you know, look
at this. To me the only secure chat is going to be a lightning
chat. That Yeah, when I do that, I feel like okay, no one else
touched that message. It went from my node to the recipients
node. I can confirm it. It costs me one Satoshi. No one
intercepted that and it's encrypted. So now that that's
the way I love that.
Okay, speaking, have you installed the Sphinx node relay
on your Raspberry Pi?
Blitz, right. Yeah, raspy Blitz, thank
thank you for bringing it up.
Yes, this was one of the easiest things that I've ever done to a
degree. Because my recipe Blitz is not directly accessible. I
have you know, it's like my home bank. So I didn't want to put
that just on my kit hanging off my cable modem. So you can
access it via Tor. And to set up the Sphinx chat, all you do is
just select the service in your recipe Blitz menu, and it
installs it. And then it does the same, just like a zap or
Zeus wallet, which kind of blew my mind because I understood. I
mean, I knew how spinx chat worked. But it wasn't until I
scan the QR code brought up. You know, it said okay, connected to
node. And then I saw Oh, 35 million sets, oh, this is really
a wallet. Because you know, that's what I have on this node,
like, holy shit. So I can stream 35 million sets worth of
satoshis to podcast now. This is cool. And so that in that
moment, it hit me. Like, if you can put anything you want on top
of lmd. You can do all kinds of cool stuff with it.
Okay, so you, essentially, as I'm talking to you on on Sphinx
chat app, yeah. And am I now talking to you on your railay?
Yes.
So how did you manage the x? Did you export your keys? So no,
no, I'd see. Well, I did export my key, but I don't think you
can you can't replace a node with a node.
I don't, you can't, you can't like swap out.
Right. So I have, I still have the iPhone seven. And that has
my Sphinx account on it. And and I switched over now it only
works on my local network, you know, 192 dot 168 cetera. But it
works really well. What I've been trying now what I tried
this morning, which wasn't that successful, because we also had
internet outages. And when that's happening in the
background, you don't know if something's failing, or you just
had no connection was too. And this and I really thought this
was slick. Although it doesn't work yet. You can go right into
the raspy Blitz and say, okay, I'd like to have this on a
dynamic DNS, then it has two providers there and I have my
own, but I figured this use duck DNS org, and through a
subscription menu that you do this. And so then it ties that
domain name to your raspy Blitz. And then you can order a tour to
IP bridge, which costs 24 sets to set up and 24 sets every day
that you use it. And so it gives you a public IP address that you
can map duck DNS to, and then that will tour into the node.
And that you know that Rube Goldberg machine should work
now. Yeah, it doesn't work. It doesn't work for me yet. But
ultimately, yeah, that that is the idea is that you're saying
I'm when you send me a Sphinx chat and message it goes
straight from your node, which would be a Sphinx node goes out
through the router, nothing but net into mine. And it has the
encoded message I decrypt and good to go.
Ah, that is that is. That is it is magical.
Even better. You can also set up tribes.
Yeah, well, the john, he did that. He moved to the move to
Okay, so now the export thing makes sense, because when he did
it, he had to get everybody to resubscribe.
Exactly, yep. Yeah, that's the problem. That's the problem. Now
it's not a problem. It's just the way the system is
architected. So it's really not a problem. You need to you just
need some foresight to know that. That's what you wanted to
do.
Yes. Well, you really set it up.
Well, yeah, before you start making friends because I had to
go through the whole thing and say, Hey, I'm over here now. If
you want to reach me, but I enjoy I really liked the idea.
Just the I wish I had. Well, not really, I guess the swings app
is good, you know? Yeah, there's nothing I guess there's nothing
I really wish for. I wish more people had it. Yeah, but I
talked to Ryan Gentry he has he hasn't set up on he has a
voltage node. And he has his because voltage nodes now also
come with the Sphinx back end that isn't officially up
enrolling yet.
Yeah, I was about to say, I don't know. I don't see that.
And no,
it's it's, it's not a it's not an option yet. Unless you know,
somebody who works there. You can get.
I don't know. Anybody know, anybody
over there.
Yeah, so, you know, it's just, I don't, man, it's exciting. I dig
it. And to me, it's also all new stuff, you know, so I'm, that's
what drives me and this is Oh, yeah. Like this. This is new.
What am I doing? SHINee
do you think? Well, okay, so let me ping pong off of that into
this as we're talking about Bitcoin stuff is enlightening is
the podcast value? documentation? Yes. And that I
put up yesterday. First, you think well, first of all about
that.
Well, okay. Congratulations. fantastic job. You, you can
write you bastard.
It sucks. I know every minute of it Really?
Well, I don't I'm, well, once I'm into writing, then it goes
pretty well. But I really like how you read it. You haven't
posted the blog post yet? Have you?
No, I haven't there's that's tweaking that a little bit. I
think I may do that. Like Monday or Tuesday,
when my wife looks at something because I said Tina, please
review this. We call it the Tina wash. Just throw stuff through
and it comes out the other end sparkling she said yes.
Beautiful. I really have no changes. She had no question
about something and said, No, consider rewriting this. But
that means you're good, man. Trust me. That means
you're good. It's a little there's a little lens flare on
it. A little flash. Nice sparkle. Yes.
Exactly. Well, I think it's good. I saw Brian of London made
probably a valid point about something consistency of using
share versus split.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That, that balls like that falls into the
category of, I'm not sure. That falls into the category of it
doesn't matter what we name it. But I'm not saying it falls
firmly into that category. I'm not sure I'm just not sure yet.
Right. I'm just, I just gotta think about that.
But once once I see all this stuff working, and Okay, now
I've got it in my head. And you know, knowing how the ln paste
stuff works. It's all API stuff. And it's really quite simple. I
think the, the money part is just a challenge for most people
who look at this with fresh eyes. Because you're not used to
money working this way. Well, I can split this money up, I can
split into little bits, I can, you know, just poop it out
through the system and someone will catch it. I mean, these are
all these are all kind of concepts that you know, goes
against banking, just what we're used to as regular as banking.
It. None of it really seems logical,
but it's programmable money. And that's just like, that should
make every developer sort of salivate a little bit. Yeah, it
should make you scared to but because you can, you know, he
clearly screwed things up. But it should, but it should make it
like, I think the blog post will go into a little bit more of a
some some of the stuff around that that revolves around it
because like, okay, for instance, Chris Crillon in, in
southeast Portland. I was listening to pod land last
night. And by the way, did you shake the dust off yourself?
When you woke up this morning?
I shake the dust off myself. Did I miss something in pod land
that I should know about?
Yeah, listen to
what he said.
And said he said he said that you see you seeing there was a
problem. You shook the dust off of yourself and crawled back
into podcasting?
No, that's nice. Yes. dusted myself off as I was under Yeah.
saw dust.
You got the bet you got the best signal. So yeah.
All right. Time to suit up.
Get out of the crypt. That's funny. Anyway, they they were
talking about all these announcements that Spotify made.
Yes, yes. Yeah. And all this stuff like, wow, you're
reinventing the wheel? How cool.
Yeah, like spot, the Spotify day or whatever this was. And, you
know, so they're like, well, we can do polls and q&a. That's a
feature, but it only works on Spotify.
Yeah. Well, that makes
sense. Yeah. With anchor and I'm like, Okay, well, you can do q&a
and polls in chat in chapters. Yes, you can. I could put a poll
or q&a in a chat in a chapter right now. And we show up on
hyper catcher and pod friend. Yep. And you can do that. Oh,
you can also charge for podcasts, but only in limited,
limited availability in certain parts of the world and you can
you can charge 299 499 99
Well, they're acting like they have captured the industry.
Yeah. And I just don't I'm not buying it. I'm just not seeing
evidence of them having the industry. And I and this just
and they haven't published any docs on these changes have they
that anyone could implement that I know of?
No, I mean, nobody can implement it. It's all siloed. It's all in
the it's all in the, in the walled garden,
probably just making straight API calls.
Oh, yeah. It's within their stack. None of this stuff is
usable without outside of their of their system. You know, and
I'm sitting here listening, I'm listening and listening to this
stuff. And I'm like, you know, there is there is literally
nothing that they can do within a closed system that cannot also
be done in RSS. Absolutely. Nothing. And I'm not I'm not,
that is not hyperbole. There is nothing that they can do. It
can't be done in an open in an open system. And in the old
knock would be what we are. Yeah, but it may take longer.
They're agile, they can move because they don't have to, but
they don't have to worry about interop. Well, that's not true.
Because they're slow as molasses. Yeah. They're slow.
They're, they're I mean, they're saying that, oh, we're gonna
have q&a or you know, paid beta, beta for right nim for
subscribing monetary subscriptions in podcast. And it
only works in an anchor. It only works in Spotify. And it will be
in limited beta in the at the end of the spring. Yeah, got me.
We got we got lightning up and running in five months. Four
months.
We did it was so fast.
Me. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that's just they're not they're not
fast. is not faster. It's not easier to use.
I could do anything better than you.
ourselves on for today. Yeah, you can do I can do better.
Yeah, that's me. That is that's what it sounds like when I'm
Petty.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't, I don't mind being a petulant child. It aggravated
me.
Here's something I was I was thinking about, because my mind
is already going around. And what's there's some app or
something that came out where you can opt in, and your
behavior will be tracked. And I think you get some benefit for
it. I was like one app, and they clearly wants statistics. And I
was thinking we could reverse this process. Now. I'd haven't
thought it all the way through. But we could reverse the
streaming satoshis process easily to allow an Advertising
Bureau to track listening minutes.
stream it, stream it right back and
stream it right on them and they can track they can track the
minutes, you know, it will be a very so MUCH better this. I
mean, it's this is a metric that no one has. You know, it would
it would explode all the IB bullshit overnight.
I've got it. I've got it.
Okay, I'm gonna write it down. I'm gonna trademark it. What's
the domain name? No,
no, no. I've had it. I've got a brainstorm. Okay. So there was
this? Where did I read this? I think I think I read it this
morning. There was a article about paid guesting on
podcasting. And I think it was in Business Insider. And I
didn't print that article. But it was essentially saying that
there's this whole world of people that want you to pay to
be on their show. Okay. And it's it seemed to be a lot of like
these, you know, like marketing guru work,
you know, who people whose business it is to be on show?
Sure,
yeah, yeah, entrepreneur, you can make you know, $10,000 from
home, you know, and have a better life, this kind of stuff.
Like, just become a podcast, app developer.
Yeah.
That's the quick right way to get to the top. But anyway,
there's just like, so there's this whole system going on,
where you can say, well, I've got this, you know, I want to be
on your show, because I want to promote my show, or I want to
promote my book or whatever, will different podcasts will
charge you 250 500 $1,000 to have a guest spot on their show.
And they don't they don't label it as as if the paid as a paid
spot, even though that's what it is. It just, it just shows up as
if it was just a random interview. So right, what if you
reverse the flow, you reverse that flow? Is it okay for you
know, for if you want to gain audience, instead of paying some
other podcast or $1,000 you just say I'll pay all my listeners
per minute for as you as you listen to me for a limited
amount of time until I get I like it. I know. Until I'll
build my audience up to 300 I'll just reverse the faucet and you
know reverse the valve. And for
that good idea, I like it.
Yeah. Pay pay for audio. I mean, that's what clubhouse is doing.
They're paying for audience right now. Yep. Aren't they?
Aren't they paying people to, to club cash or whatever?
Definitely
paying some people. Yes, I'm not sure who, but they're definitely
paying some people.
tankers paying their own people, their their house ads is like
90% of the ads. So I mean, like, I think that's a good idea.
I love it. Hey, a quick mention of buzzsprout. I was already
kind of high on this company. And now I understand why no one
reached out to me left our last show. Like, there were a little
busy. They were a little busy. Yeah, with a DDoS attack, which
I've witnessed in many different forms. It sucks. What I liked is
how they communicated how they were also communicating
publicly, to other podcast community communities, including
ours. And then today, I listened to the to the buzz cast. And
they did a nice job, a whole post production with music and
the facts and everything of what went down. 30 minute podcast, it
was very good. And you know, we obviously believe in the concept
of open open communications with the company and then this is our
board meeting that I've really felt that was not just smart, it
shows you what what their DNA is. And big kudos all around
kicking ass did a great job
where they trying to pull in the true crown. Crap. Well, they got
me starting last week, in the middle of the night.
Wait, so I play a little bit of our new podcast? Oh, yeah, sure.
You don't have a brush, you can
just walk up your mask dividend.
I'd like your three days.
Before
we can do this show, ma'am. That's a great show. It
is capturing the whole headspace craze, you know?
Okay, what do we have anything else we need to discuss before
we get to our guest who has been waiting patiently, although he
has been able to listen in so he kind of gets a free ride. I'm
listening to the show.
I'm not gonna punish him any longer.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have one of our Primo podcast app
developers with us right now. The man who is without a doubt a
renaissance man he is from everywhere and nowhere. He's got
a Brazilian Portuguese background. He's Italian. He's
German. He's lives on Mars. Please welcome Gilly Anima delgo
Steen.
I'll have to hire you for doing my PRM and
you misunderstood as part of podcasts? index.org. It's free?
Yes. You get it for free. My
brother is in the package. Yeah, you're a you're a man of the
world.
So DMA showed up on the mastodon podcast index dot social podcast
in the CLI social Yes, podcast index dot social, gosh, darn it.
So many of these to remember very early on, and is one of the
premier developers, I would say always, they're always ahead of
the curve. But first, we need to understand exactly what your
background is. Guillermo, because we got you on the on the
zoom call. And so you are are you Portuguese or Brazilian?
So I am Brazilian. And a lot of people get this confused because
like we speak Portuguese in Brazil, right? Yeah, but I am
Brazilian and I lived there until 2013. So basically, I grew
up and became an adult there. And it was like it was 2020 a
lot. And then I moved to Germany. And while I have a
background as a software developer, I still work on the
industry. Now I'm not developing I am in a very confusing role
that it's hard to explain like mainly helping to onboard new
colleagues and new teams into a project that I am working. Yeah,
but I was never a web developer before or at least I am not a
web developer. by trade. I always worked either on the back
end or like it was in the GRP software. And before that, I was
doing extensions for design software, so like completely
different. And while I got in contact with podcasts around
2012 2011 And we've time I started listening a lot of
podcasts. And I still do a lot of listening on my desktop at
that time, and I wanted something, basically to
synchronize between devices. And to be free. Because I'm cheap
guy. And I was learning a bit of web development there, it was
contributing to an internal tool in the company. So it was not my
main job. But on the side, I was learning it. And I also got in
contact with development of browser extensions also, because
of an ad I had before developing pod station. And while I
discovered that this in, if you do a browser extension, or at
least for Chrome, there is a very, very tiny space of sync
storage that you can use. It's 200 kilobytes like, wow, tiny
Whoa. What's that? Exactly, it's back to stone age, I was okay.
If I had a floppy disk, a good start. But it was enough at
least to to store the list of podcasts that I subscribed to.
And that's how it started. So in the beginning, like the first
version that I published, was, it didn't even have a player, it
was just like, you use the iTunes search, and just
downloaded it, just click
download or whatever.
Yeah, you click download, you listen in either directly in the
browser, but not before player like this standard player from
the browser, or you don't load to listen, and then which time I
started adding features and then adding a player playlist. And
well, now today, it's a full fledged thing with some features
that I decided not to implement, because like, for instance, a
lot of people ask, well, Why cannot I mark something as
Leeson that I are already listening? And because it takes
a lot of
storage?
Exactly. So I could do it locally, I guess that a lot of
people listening a single device, but then I have to
distinguish what goes locally, what goes in sync storage. And
it would be very confusing for people that using both devices,
because then you have it marked in one device and it's not
marked in the other device. Yeah. And then I decided, Okay,
if I cannot implement it in a good way, then I will leave it
out. But basically, that's it whatever I can, and I can fit in
this 200 kilobytes goes in. So the playlist the progress of
your podcasts as long as it's not too much, I didn't get this
whole time, only one or two people came to me and say, hey,
it's not working. And then we looked at it and it was full.
Before before you continue going from Brazil to Germany, is that
a typical jump for people? Or is that something you? I mean, how
did that come about? What was your what was the process, if
you don't mind me asking.
But it was a bit particular. So I work for a company that's
German company, and they had a subsidiary there where I live in
Brazil, and also my wife, she's a physicist, and she was looking
for a PhD on Europe. Oh, there it is. Yep,
there it is. Yeah, it's always for a woman, whether you're
looking for one or following
through. And she, she basically brought me to Europe. And we
came together and we managed the winning away that she did her
PhD. And I got a transfer. So she was nice studying near to
the place where I could work here.
Worked out good. Yeah.
Actually stayed. Basically that that was how it worked.
Excellent. So now I use pod station. Almost every day in
that I'm in the studio, because I know I have that's the only
machine I have that I use that. That is a desktop I use my my
graphene Oh, S for everything else. So first of all, thank
you, because it is the easiest, quickest slam dunk player there
is it's always there. You know, I don't I don't have to go to my
start menu and just like oh, click this thing up here. And
the fact that you were outside of savings will really from the
Sphinx, proof of concept, the first one to implement.
Streaming SATs value for value is just phenomenal. And I know
that you're seeing me use it because you say hey, someone
sent some stats, some sass this way. What's going on? Yeah,
that's me. And
it was the first time I got any sets. I think it was from you. I
don't know if anyone else is using but I knew at least from
you, I was gonna get something
that how's How hard is it to write a decent browser
extension? I mean, like, I've done a little bit of it and in
the past of a road, one extension to do to do something
within our company. And in Chrome. It was it was for
Chrome, and I remember just sort of getting so frustrated and
banging my head against the wall about all the limitations you
had to jump through. It means that I couldn't imagine writing
a podcast app. And that is it. I mean, did you just like want to
scream and jump out a window?
No, no, not at all. Actually, it's the opposite. Because it,
it facilitated some stuff for me like, it's basically like a web
app. But there's some stuff that I use the API's from the
extension, one of one big advantage is you can get around
this cross origin resource sharing thing, that dreaded
corollary, the dreaded course, yeah, that's something that have
been keeping me away of trying to do a web version of it for a
long time, it's a big limitation, I even started to
call the web app based on ionic like this framework for hybrid
development. It worked, it works, but it didn't get so far,
because a bae wanted to focus a bit more on the on the
extension, I think that they are. Now with the index, it's
much easier because you can get a lot of stuff from the index.
And get around this. Because if you want only if you get to the
point where it gets to the audio file, like to the URL, then you
can play it because you you can if you don't do like HTTP
requests from inside your code from the JavaScript, and you can
get around this. But if you had, for instance, to fetch the feed
and parse the feed, and then the feed is not corps enabled, then
you cannot do it. And then the index, you can resort to that.
What what's the point of this evil Corps in the first place?
Is it for some kind of hack that people can do? That's, that's
what it's trying to avoid?
I think it's something like, like when you are in your
domain, you cannot look at data from the other domains or post
data to the other domains unless, unless the other domain
allows you to do it. It's a big limitation. I think for
progressive web apps, especially these kind of progressive web
apps, and especially for having a decentralized web. I think
when you have a Chrome extension, you have the
permissions. And in my case, I am very permissive. And then if
you install it, it's gonna say, hey, this extension can read
from all the websites or visit and stuff like that. But that's
because I didn't get the effort to do this more fluent
permission requests, like when you are going to access that
domain, then I ask him, Hey, can I access this domain? But then
this could also be a bit annoying, you can kind of ruin
the experience. Yeah, exactly. But at least something similar
for, for progressive web apps should be there where I say,
Hey, I don't need to post stuff. I only need to get stuff from
this domains. And then I asked for the permission. And then if
the user says, Yeah, you're okay, you can get it. And then
you don't have to refresh that very often. That is, could be an
OK, experience. But it's a very big limitation for for
distributed web apps based on RSS and that kind of stuff.
Yeah,
it's a fairly is,
I don't know, I don't know how you did it. But the, you know,
with with no space to with 200 kilobytes to work with, and you
still got lm pay working fine in there, because you you support
both interfaces, the REST API, the LM pay, I mean, you are so
ahead of the game was fantastic.
I didn't know the I didn't know the macaroon stuff was still in
there. So you can do both? I think so
you can select Yeah, it's both. Oh, well, you go there because
the options. Yep. And you can select it, select an l&d node, I
wanted to implement other nodes as well. But I don't know how
popular they are. I think I had to start with something. So it
went like CSC lightwell. And I think
with lnd
Yeah, I think it's the most popular,
what have you run up against? What were some of the problems
you run up against? For the other developers who were
implementing this now? was anything particularly difficult?
No, not not much, actually. But one of the things it's like the
the conversion of data that you have to do like from binary to
wax to something else, and then figure out exactly what is the
formatting that you have to do when you consume the API's. But
once once it's up, it's quite simple. I mean, it's more like
you spend a little bit of time fine tuning and finding exactly
what you have to send through the API's. And once you get
there, it's it's quite easy. And doing that
without without a back end server. That's, that's, that's
pretty awesome.
Yeah, it's, it's one of the limitations is like you having
to install the certificate because if you run an old test
on your own, it's going to be HTTPS, and it's going to be its
own certificate. So you have to do it. Probably, yeah. But aside
from that, it's quite simple. It's just consuming an API on a
on a remote system. And the LNP was quite easy to it. So I think
that this technical part of actually consuming the API's and
triggering the transmissions, it's the easy part, I think the
part that's going to be a bit of a struggle is that you have to
start building a small accounting system inside of your
application, because you start having to calculate these
values. If it's offline, you accumulate for a long time. So
you have a persistency, for that you have stuff. And once you
start doing that, you have to think, how do I show this to the
user. So this is something I completely don't do, and I
completely don't have persistency for that. So right,
isolating,
so I go offline. So if your app goes offline, you read now your
best, you're just no payments. And so when it comes back
online, then you you're not, you're not tracking it in a way
where you can batch the stuff together later,
it stays in memory. So as long as it doesn't unload, it would
work. But on the other hand, you need to be online to listen to
the podcast unless it's buffered, and to a certain
point, but it is I don't have the option to download for
offline listening yet. So yeah, if if you went offline, for a
certain time, it's going to accumulate, if you go back, then
it's going to send that cumulated values. But it's a
very short time span. If you wanted to have something more
like a traditional podcast app experience, and really download
and listen offline. No, you need all this accounting and on the
back end, on the background, to to collect all this data to
maybe show Hey, this is spending or this is what you sent before.
And now the challenge is a bit of a UX challenge. How do I show
this to the users? Well show
what you know what I really would I really love it's just
me, so please don't build this. But I love popping up the log.
And, and seeing everything. No scroll by I'm like, okay, and it
says, Oh, yeah, collecting data for the shoe for payment. Oops,
not enough yet waiting. And then it's like, okay, sending
payments, sending completes, like, Oh, this is so nice. It
made me feel good.
When I implemented it, that was mainly for debugging, because I
had no other way of seeing what was happening. Aside from
looking at the log off the node and attach it to it. It's nice
to see it building up.
There's your UX man, I just love seeing that. I mean, it can be
as simple as how much I've sent so far. But for some reason, I
just love seeing that log, you know, it's like, hey, while
you're listening, look at what's going on in the background.
Boom. Another another
another least at least, I'm not the only one that does print
debugging.
And not survive who bought it? Yeah, me too.
I mean, I know. You know, I've used plenty of debuggers. But
I'm like, I just keep falling back to it's so easy just to
drop printf in there and just move on with my life, you know,
for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. So the Yeah, that that's gonna be a challenge, I
guess, how do you present this to the users? Because now what I
am doing is basically am cumulating based on the nodes.
And and I already introduced this custom record, because I am
using LMP to get the 1% Commission. Did you
see that? A? Did you see that? In the documentation that I
posted? Yesterday? I put the custom rec?
No, I didn't see the documentation yet. But I'm very
curious to see that.
Yeah, I mean, it's nothing groundbreaking. I'm just trying
to formalize what you what did what you had talked about
earlier, it's just a custom key and a custom value. And it's
just, they're just optional attributes now, and it turned
out that Sphinx is gonna need that too, because they're doing
some stuff that I'm not sure if they're ready to talk about it
yet. But they're polish and they're doing some things. And
he was like, Yeah, can we really need a way to pass some
metadata? And I will, you know, he needs that same thing, too.
So let's just go ahead and formalize this, how
we do it. Yeah.
And then the custom, because because we're that, you know,
baton around this idea of putting, where do you put all in
the string with a delimiter, or Nino? And I think they and you
both were just like, No, it's just easier to do attributes.
And so hopefully, that'll work for you.
No, I think it'll work. As long as we have at least one custom
record that we can put there with one key and one value. That
should be sufficient that thing for most cases, and in the
future, if we need more than one custom record, then we can
expand the namespace somehow.
You said that you were using something to get the 1%
Commission. Can you just explain what what you're talking? I
think I know what you're talking about, but how that works, what
you're doing there?
Yeah, so basically, we currently have the split that right before
it didn't implement thinking that it had to be 100% Some of
the splits, so it was already treating it as chairs. And what
I do is, I basically normalize it in a way that I will that the
shares will now sum up to 99, let's say and then they take
this 1%. And I add this as one split that sends it to Ellen pay
with this custom record that it identifies the wallet. Right?
Yep. And and the idea, I guess, for the future is that this is
what Dave was mentioning that in the namespace, we can also
support these nodes that have like veered to a wallet on top
based on customer records. And so this is partially implemented
already in BOD station, because I am using to get my 1%. But
once we have this in the index, and also in the namespace, then
I can also parse this, and anyone could could use a wallet
like Ellen pay to also get paid, which I think it's a big deal,
because it will also make the onboarding for podcasters.
matches your index. Yes. Much. Very important.
Yeah. Much easier.
So what do you what do you need? You mentioned the other day, I
think, on the on the masculine that you're needing feed, that
they would implement that so that you could test it?
No, no, that is very easy. For me, I can produce a feed myself,
I was just thinking about somebody that's actually like a
podcaster. That will use it productively like, because it's
so easy to do the onboarding, that if somebody is interested,
then it will be a very good use case. Okay, well,
I'm a podcaster.
Both if you want to, but to switch now to LMP. It's for the
receiving end.
Yeah, I haven't I haven't lm pay wallet.
yet. You could, well, maybe what you could do is but part of the
split goes to your regular node, and the other part goes to LMP.
That could also be a good way of doing it.
Yeah. So you know, you know, because whatever, whenever we're
doing this, I just say to Dave, Hey, can you switch my note,
again? What I have noticed there's some say yes, yes,
there's some client out there somewhere that is still sending
me or maybe there's some feed out there something in the index
is not, is not changed, because I'm seeing, like a three Satoshi
payment from a Sphinx chat coming through on my on my curry
node to my home node and that we haven't used that in ages. Oh,
so I wonder if it's a caching thing? Or? Or if maybe we didn't
change one of them? I don't know. I would presume you just
do a search and replace.
Yeah, and it was just, it's bit yet. There. I'll change. Oh,
wait. Yeah. If you're searching Yeah, yeah. Know that. I know.
It will do this is my my, my first node to go out to do a
different search. Anyway, doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.
But yeah, I'll we can switch at least one of the shows just just
to see how it doesn't matter. I just change them all. See him
come in. I can't wait to Yeah, we'll try that. We'll let you
know. Gilliam?
Oh,
I'll do that. All right. Cool.
No, I'm a very good guinea pig. Because when I break somebody I
just called Dave.
Yeah, thanks. That's not that's not what I call a good guinea
pig.
Once once that's in the index, just let me know when I will
implement that.
So what do you what are your plans with this? Because, you
know, clearly, there is value flowing to you. That's good. I
mean, we know it's not very much we don't have a lot of, you
know, we're still building everything out. Do you Where do
you see this going for you personally?
Oh, man. That's a difficult question. I didn't, I didn't
think that far. I had
quite a few users that right? I mean, did you have like, over
1000
I have 50,000 installations around the browser. They are
active in the sense that they are installed because they I
think the way that the Chrome Web Store does it, if your
browser tries to get new updates, it counts as an active
installation. In my analytics, it's, I have more or less 1500
active users per day, and 5000 per week and 14,000 per month,
something like that. So I did the math and actually, even if
all of them were were streaming value at 1%, I will be getting
like, I don't know, six $6 a day or something like that. So
unless I can expand my customer base I don't even call them
customers because I mean, it's a hobby project. It's free. It's,
it wouldn't be too much Actually, my, my interest is
kind of a hobby interested in. And also, I always wanted to
have this kind of value for validating for podcasts not for,
like, for me as a consumer of podcast, and also for the
podcasters. Because I, I hate to see the podcasters having to do
advertising and stuff and usually send them it's like, it
doesn't sound natural, and I like ham and it shouldn't be
like that. And, and then yet, you can put your money there.
It's nice.
Let me give you a couple suggestions. free advice. First
of all, if you could implement the boost functionality, I don't
know if you're familiar with it, but on the unswervingly they
have a button you can configure a one time payment just by
hitting that button.
So yeah, that's gonna be hard that it's, it's I'm already
thinking about doing that and putting some big button on the
player very can can boost
Yes, because you will see the difference in your 1% as well.
That's really where the money is being made. I'll be honest with
you at these, because I'm tracking you know, the the index
node, and the index node is doing between I think it's like,
I mean, it's between one and $2, depending on what day of the day
of the week, sometimes it's half. And we really don't have a
lot of people using these things. So, but if I if I go in
and analyze what's really nice, is it and of course this changes
over time as we started this project Bitcoin was what Dave
20,000 Yeah, so you know, the the values have gone up, while
the value sliders have stayed relatively the same. So that
default of five or 10 sets, you know, is looking better than it
used to, but man, it is the boosts and and that'll get you
excited. And and I think being Since you're so far ahead of
everybody. And I know you have your restrictions, but it kind
of makes it cool. The more you can surface of that kind of
stuff, you know when boosts occur, but just the fact that
you as a user are sending some value when you have a tally of
that. And I think it'll make it very exciting. And then there's
something else which may or may not be interesting to you,
because I just came out to it. I saw it today. It's been out for
a couple couple days. Apparently Chrome, and I presume chromium
is looking at implementing some kind of RSS aggregation slash
reader functionality. And they're going to be adding a
follow button, so that you can fall into what's the smartest
thing that that odio ever did before they became Twitter is to
you know, so instead of subscribed to this website that
saying follow, and the thinking is that this is some kind of
under the hood, you know, reader that they're putting in there.
And my feeling is, somehow it makes sense for you to also look
at how you could do streaming value for value payments for
people reading articles.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that
that will be interesting. I mean, I have seen like,
sometimes I see text there on the UI of pod station because
people sometimes mix in the feed articles and podcasts. Mm hmm.
And yeah, I think for data we'll have to have a bottom button
there that says okay, donate or send this much to to this feed.
I'm thinking I do it on the scroll and you scroll down
halfway through boom payment goes out
Yeah, they're just as just boost or just a bit just to boost
maybe Yeah,
I'm only saying it because somehow when these things start
to happen I see RSS coming back into play you know, there's
there may be a whole nother system that needs to be set up a
whole nother index not maybe not that we're gonna do it but I'm
just saying this shit is happening here and with all the
all the deep platforming all the just call it what it is
censorship if you got advertising you're being
censored one way or the other. There's a movement man and and
we are timing for once in my life is probably spot on. This
everyone is looking for alternatives
you've got have so you know if you're, if you're a developer
who can swing getting something as complicated as this time
interval Based Payment Kissin stuff working, then something
like paying like boosting for an article that is like dead simple
compared to this man.
It's not complicated. Now that part is the easy part.
Value block and all that stuff. You know that's still neat.
Yeah.
You know, the thing that the complicated part is like,
building something attractive, that has that functionality,
like building the reader that is nice and have nice features and
that functionality, because I think that's, that's something
very nice, but I think that if you don't have the rest, then
that's not going to fly. It would be a completely different
product. I mean, I wouldn't put it together with pod station, it
would be like a separate extension or something. Oh,
yeah. Yeah. Problem is there is already a lot of other
extensions for that. We'll be competing with them. But yeah,
maybe that will be the differentiator.
substation, call it substantial. capitalize on some of that
substack Mojo.
But I think you guys will want me to focus on the podcasting
part, at least is the
core we want to we want you to focus on 15 different things all
at once. The way we
do I detect some animosity Dave Jones, know that it is the way
we go. Yeah. Okay, let's see, what would did we still have on
deck for Guillermo? He has, he has no plans for the future. He
doesn't know what he's going to do. Okay.
That's the best. If I made plans, and I, before I started
put station, I wouldn't have made it. I prefer to just follow
and it's better. If I start doing plans, I keep up. Well, I
want
to know what you're you're a coder, I want to know what
you're like, what background did you have? But were you
JavaScript from the beginning? Or did you come to Oh, no,
I didn't know. I knew nothing about JavaScript. Actually, from
the all the times I tried to do web development before I kind of
failed. Okay, wait, I'm
gonna guess I'm gonna guess what your what your language was
before? Oh, I doubt you're gonna get it. But let's Oh, that's a
challenge.
So you said it was not web related? I'm going to say that
it had something to do with embedded industrial control.
No, no. So in the very beginning, so the first half of
my career, let's say I was coding in c++. So you know, this
very famous design software. I don't know exactly how it's
pronounced in English. I think it's out to cat or something.
Yes, cat. Yeah, we saw I work it for a company that did some
extensions for AutoCAD. And we did that in c++. Is your
extension
background? Oh, yeah. I
never thought about that. But yeah, that's my extension
background. And then I moved into this. Big companies SAP,
maybe you've heard about it is more in the enterprise world
course. And, and they had a very proprietary still have
proprietary platform and this language up, it's called, and
it's only used in this context. So yeah, never heard of that.
Yeah. Yeah, but But the thing is, the I mentioned before, they
had this internal tool, and it was, this was a web tool. And it
was coded, of course, in JavaScript, but we found guler j
s. So the first one point something version of Angular,
and I learned a little bit of it, to do an extension on that
too, for something I needed. Again, an extension. And that
was how I started and then I started, what station first we
fought Angular. And then I said, Okay, I'm going to use this. And
it's still using AngularJS. So, and I am thinking about moving
little by little maybe to react things. It's so popular now.
Yeah. But the thing is, there is I wouldn't even say there is a
stack or something. What do you get in the browser is what I
call there is no transpiling. There's no bundling. There's no
nothing. It's like less than one less. And although I love that,
it's starting to hit some limitations. So I'm thinking now
about moving to a more modern stack and putting maybe some
TypeScript to get me some type safety and all that kind of
stuff, some bundling. So I have to investigate. There is a bit
of technical depth. One of the reasons I want to look into that
is because Chrome is moving the extension format now to this
manifest v3, and there's a lot of incompatible things. And we
will eventually have to move because they will deprecate the
version two. did that.
Did that break a bunch of stuff for you?
bunch of stuff and one very important thing. I cannot wait
The audio from the background anymore. So I don't know if
that's how you use it use it, Adam. But a lot of users, they
play it and they close the tab and it keeps playing in the
background. And that's something I cannot do with the mp3
anymore. There is already an open feature request, but God
knows when to look at it. No, I
don't close the tab. I like keeping it open. All right,
that's just me. The only thing I I'd love for more people to try
this out. Have you considered a little more documentation for
people who want to try it your experimental section of the
options?
Yeah, I
have to do that and put a link in the in the options. I I did
everything I did in the very rushed away just to get it out
there. But I definitely have to do some some more comprehensive
documentation.
Yeah. Because Because I love promoting stuff. So you know,
whenever I can make it as simple as possible for the people who
are going to pick it up, so they don't get too frustrated. So as
we said at the beginning, you know, whenever you need a PR
push, let me know.
Right? How long When did you first release? busstation? How
long has it been out?
It's a long time. First time was 2015. So that's been the middle
of 2015 mature is
your codebase
I have been maintaining it for quite some time. And it's it's
mature. It's I want to say I am ashamed. What What is Terry? I
couldn't have done it better. But it was my learning project.
Yeah, but when you have a pet project and you have limited
time, you have to accept that you are going to have some cut
some corners. They're all in all it's I think it's a good code
base.
Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to write a review. Because the
Chrome Web stores like not enough with 2018 and now we got
to do some either some 2020s there people like it. Look at
this.
Oh, yeah, that I mean, people do that. Yeah, that leaves reviews
in the parties say the rating is up the roof. It means 4.0 you
got four. Yeah, you got over 4.5
Yeah, yeah, it's not bad. No, it's
excellent. Outstanding. Very nice. It
so do you get contacted with people wanting you to take their
podcast off your pot station?
never I never got that I was reading to threaten the monster
done. Yeah, from Martin they're surprised nobody ever asked to
get something removed from anybody draw you a picture and
crayon of their of your logo. That's interesting. Actually,
that
happens that immediately made me think it was comic strip blogger
in disguise. Okay, he's drawing
what happens from time to time and I get random emails of
people asking do you want to sell but station and they don't
even have an email from a company It's like he may we may
or they say are from a company and stuff like that? Oh, yeah.
And a few people we got back to the ones that were a little bit
more serious. Or look at more series at least. And one guy
offered me like 400 bucks and
I would buy it for
five I'll pay five right now.
I'll pick him up pitching
him Bitcoin.
Come on, you're good. You're gonna buy my hobby? What I'm
gonna do with my free time.
Dude, I'll pay you $400 not to email me anymore.
Well, you know, since you are here, we do have something we
need to do from time to time on the show. And I think it really
pertains to you because I'm very interested. If you are feeling
hot, named Oh,
yeah. Are you feeling the name space?
And I already mentioned namespace twice. where's where's
the Jingo? dropping clues?
You got it? Brother? You got it? So obviously, you support
portions of the namespace. What are the other? It's kind of an
interesting app in that regard. I think, you know, pod station
is something that a lot of people want because it's out of
the way and because it's kind of in the background. What are your
thoughts?
Yeah, so I think I only support funding and Bella. Bella was
very experimental funding. I think I was the one that
suggests that even because I always wanted to make it easy to
hit one button and go to the place where you give money to
the to the podcasters some some of the things I am really not
much into Care location. And I think that there was something
else that was like, I never use no person Personally, I actually
I am into it. I didn't have the time to to engage with the
thing. But there is a lot of nice stuff that uh, that you
could have like search for episodes that somebody
participated in and then it's getting for multiple feeds. I
think that's a nice thing, or, or even is that you don't search
directly for that person. But I am listening to a podcast and
now Who is this guest and then they click there and then I it
show me episodes from other podcasts. I think that's, that's
a very interesting one. Actually, before this, this
namespace, I have created one namespace that I never advertise
it too much. And I never did anything with it. That was
called social RSS. And remember, you're linking to
that. Yeah. Saw that?
Yeah, I think Yeah, exactly. And I think when I proposed the
funding I linked to it because in that one, I already had the
funding or monetization or something like that. And and
also links to the social handles off the podcast and also from
the participants and stuff like that. But it was a bit
complicated. Like I define it i think i only defined it
participant and then there was like permanent participant and
guest or something like that. And also something that was like
a reference to a participant because you could find it on the
channel and then in the items but you didn't want to duplicate
everything on the item so your reference to the to the one in
the channel it's a bit more complicated for parsing and
stuff but it saves you let's say if you are building the thing
manually and it saves you a bit space in the feed I think that
channel sorry that the chapters and the transcription they are
nice I want to implement at some point they just didn't have the
time and also these are a bit more demanding to me because I
think on the user experience and then that's the part where it
always take a little bit more time I didn't know how he does
because he comes up like you You think of a tag and he comes up
with in pod friend there is already a very nice user
experience where it
does UI guys like him drive me crazy because I'm late to my
head against the wall trying to make something look like a
button look pretty and you know they can do it in like five
minutes.
One station is not minimalistic just because of a design
decision. It was by my lack of skill. I couldn't do something
more
failing human
and it's actually a big advantage because a lot of
people that give reviews say wow that's very simple and
minimalistic and Stephanie yeah because that's what I can do.
And I like to keep it that way so I always think very carefully
before doing changes Adams still use it for his email
I do
I have no idea what that is.
Yeah, it's a great command line email I have a tricked out have
scripted
you know I may have used it one time long oh
I'm sure I'm sure we all use it at one point so I was just
messing around while you guys were talking I don't see the I
don't think the the funding tag works or at least not what I
wasn't I whenever I click on the donate it goes to you which I'm
happy to donate to you but stop now it's like a lot in the army.
Yeah.
I need to work in the UX there actually I want to if you go
into the list of podcasts you will see a bit of hidden not
hidden but it's it's there like if you look in the podcasting
2.0 you will see like fun this podcast or something, but it
doesn't call your attention. I really need to do something
about that. I think at least what I wanted to do. First I
want to make that maybe the same yellow that I have in the donate
button. The main Yeah, that was me. Yeah, that went home. And
when you play an episode of both cast that test funding I want to
show a button on the player too. So that guy
what's really sexy though, is if you're using pod station and the
flip over to your Ellen pay wallet. It's kind of cool
because now you have to refresh but it shows you the the the
share split payment shows you when it went what time. I mean,
it would take a small, small amount to translate that and say
oh, this is part of the podcasting 2.0 podcast you were
listening to. I just find it exciting.
You mean the log so
I'm in I'm in Ellen pay just looking at the LM pay, wallet
pay. Okay, yeah, kind of technical.
So you're seeing it going out and then on one side and coming
in on the other said
no, because I, my incoming is to my voltage node. That's my
personal and this is just I put 10,000 satoshis every time on
the LM pay wallet. And I guess, yeah, it's, it's, I just can't
tell you how much I appreciate that you're doing this to the
airmen it's it's, it's so nice to have a stable operating
implementation of this outside of what we already had with a
proof of concept with swings who are also doing their upgrades. I
just love it, man. And I hope we can get more people to use it.
Yeah, I hope so. Is
there nice to implement this? It's now just a I have to think
on how to make it more accessible. On the namespace
side, what?
Are there any tag tags that are not in there that you're that
you really think would be a good thing to focus on for like phase
three?
Oh, not from the top of my mind, though, I was so focused on this
valid thing that I kind of forgot a little bit about the
other ones. Because I'm
really thinking about the alternate enclosure tag, it
really seems to be Oh, that one is nice need to be able to do to
flip it, like be able to flip back and forth between audio and
video in the same feed and not have to produce two feeds for
it. That seems like a great yeah.
Yeah, I think one big use case for that is the quality of the
audio, or bitrate or however you want to call it, I think,
especially for people that are listening on the mobio or stuff
like that, that there are many countries where the bandwidth is
not great. So So having this all in one feed, and then you can
select like a default quality and then it falls back to that
to be great.
What is it is bandwidth, okay, in Brazil?
for desktop, sorry, for not desktop, but if you use it at
home with your Wi Fi and landline? It's it's quite okay.
And it's unlimited. You don't have to worry about that. And
you don't have mobile, it's it's a bit more expensive and a bit
more limited. So I think most people probably downloaded
before, or offline usage.
Okay. Yeah, I would think that that can be easily, you know,
like an auto selection, too. If you're, if the app detects that
the rate, you know, it's yellow, and it's running out of buffers,
that means he can just automatically downgrade to the
lower audio quality.
Yeah, it could do that. Yeah. So it's kind of this automatic
quality on YouTube and stuff like that, that
adjusts automatically. Are you does your disposition support
video? Or do you plan on supporting it? No, I
did a proof of concept once. I have to tweak it a little bit,
because by default, it plays on the background. So I don't
render anything on the app. And by the in the video, I of course
will have to play it, but it on the tab. But there was so little
demand for that so far, that they never put a lot of effort
there.
Especially being a background or kind of thing seems like,
exactly, yeah. You don't want to foreground Yeah,
yeah. But I have been thinking more and more about that. And to
be honest, I don't like YouTube very much. I mean, it's has a
lot of functionality is great. I even pay the premium thing. But
I hate the fact that people put all their content in a single
platform is maddening. And, yes, I cannot understand them. And
even the big channels that they they could simply say, hey, I
want to have some leverage. So you know, it's not that hard to
put in other platforms. And I've been
looking at this, and I finally understood the problem. And, you
know, when we started podcast index, and people said, Oh, this
would be you know, can't wait when you do it for video, and
I'm sitting there going, but it's, it's already there. But I
figured out what the problem is. And it's it is it is such a
monolithic problem from so many angles, that there's almost no
incentive to solve it. And I shall explain it. If you because
I have, I've now been playing around for several months with
buzzsprout with the libsyn with the blueberry. Any others? Those
are the main ones
rss.com.
I haven't haven't used the RSS calm. But I think they'll
probably have, they all have the same issue. Because of the
bandwidth and the storage necessary. If you open an
account with any I think as far as I know, with any of these,
you have an X number of megabytes or gigabytes, usually
megabytes to store and at the lowest plan. And they have to
because they're, you know, well the disk storage is one thing
that's gotten pretty inexpensive. But if you have an
episode and it's a gigabyte of video because it's an hour or
that way, you could compress it a lot more but let's say it's
half a gig. That's going to cost them A lot more in transfer
costs, particularly. And so they've they've artificially
made this inaccessible to people. And people have no idea
they don't understand why this can't be done. So I just got
this many megabytes whatever, I can't do video, I guess you
can't do a video. If we had an alternate storage solution. This
would be this would revolutionize everything
overnight. It's just because people have learned over at
least 10 years, I can upload video, I don't have enough
space. That's the only reason every player pretty much handles
it.
Yeah, yes.
It's on the hosting side, this is a big problem. And, of
course, many in YouTube, people were used to a get a video on
the best quality possible way upload, and they handle
everything to storage. Forget it, yeah. And then they would
expect something similar from the hosting like a I upload this
video, and then you will produce feed with many different
qualities or even have some way to have this adaptative quality
with a single URL, I don't know, there's a lot of expectation
there we fall do is way simpler. And
yes, but the beauty is the receiving end pretty much
everybody. Even cellular phones, now it's going to eat up more
more data, which could be a problem in some countries. But
in general, the receiving side is set up, you know, I have
enough bandwidth to to progressively download and start
playing a video. in almost any device can do that almost any
connection can do that. It is purely a hosting pricing issue.
And I and I understand that, I'm just saying I'm repeating this
because I know they're listening, I understand it's
scary to give up one of the things that that you're
providing. But think about how beautiful it will be when for
your customers, they will seamlessly not know that it's
distributed in half space, or in ipfs, or whatever it is. And you
can charge them progressively with small increments for their
file access instead of button file storage and transfer
instead of just making it a hard No. And having your user
interface your user experience be what people pay for. And, and
yes, YouTube is free. And free comes with a lot of expensive
downsides if you build a business on it. And all of a
sudden you get cancelled or any of this stuff. It is it is
something that we can solve together podcasts index is
ready, willing and able to be an ipfs node to be a pin node. And
we can I know and we know there's business models that
will work. We just have to all kind of do it. And so that's my
final call out to the hosting companies.
Yeah, I think it's, it's such a Yeah, I think you're right, I
think you nailed it. It's the scary part. It's the scary part
from just an unknown. I mean, you open the floodgates to that.
And it's like, Ah, man, what,
but also, if it works, the gamble, if it works, you can
double your profit, maybe triple. Yeah, think about that.
What's that, you know, that it's, there's got to be
somewhere that you've got to almost go to that next level up
in order to that's where Google, that's where Google and you
know, CloudFlare and these guys, they're, they're sort of they
have they have elevated their, their business up to the next
level of internet infrastructure to where the bandwidth is not so
much of a problem, because they're all their virtue there.
They're living in the carrier domain anyway. Yes, they are.
Yeah. And so they, they just really have a strong advantage.
And it does that if you're anywhere in any tier below that
you have to play in their playground. Well, how about
this?
So yeah, I'm very familiar with with what they do, you know,
just like Netflix, you know, Netflix is not streaming from
one server in California, obviously. But they get boxes,
they drop boxes into exchanges, and, and then into cable
companies themselves, and they will. And they'll pick it up
from there.
That's the way to do it. And
but we can use the same basic system ology as Microsoft uses
for their updates, where if you're on a segment of, of a
cable network, you should be able to be serving portions of
video files to other people on that network. Yeah, and the
technologies are there all of its there, we just have to do
it. And I'd hate to have to do it and then have to become a
hosting provider to do it. I don't want that.
I don't know what would be really cool would be if we go
into this ipfs game and people can have like In their houses,
piece of storage where the content that they consume, they
also store and serve there and plug this into the developer of
Hello thing with the lightning. Yep. Imagine you could get a
piece for the hosting. And that's because you don't know
where you are hosting from. And you cannot put this into the RSS
directly. But I mean, eventually we we can think about
ipfs. And Dave will correct me if I'm wrong. ipfs has a way to
interact. And we could do this with when we talked about it a
million times L SATs milset l SATs where there's a payment for
the for the API exchange, and it's in satoshis. Which is just
beautifully simple. I was met that was with with my my my
raspy blitz that we were talking about earlier. I just I just hit
the tour to IP bridge and said, Okay, this is gonna cost you
24 724 sets every every 24 hours. And I just said yes. I
never authenticated anything. I never I just said yes. And it
went because everything was already connected. So this can
be done the same way for hosting. I think ipfs has that
built in, doesn't it? Dave?
I don't think it I don't know that it has I think they're
using filecoin. What else that isn't?
No, no, no. But file coin is I don't think it's necessary to
use file coin as the value mechanism. You can layer on I
think you can layer anything on top of ipfs Yeah, I think so. If
not, we'll just make it so
well. We just need to have that PFS guys on the show and ask him
about it.
Who are the ipfs? Guys?
I don't know. ipfs
ipfs. Guys,
hit us up infoed podcast index.org.
There's always underscore guys, it's there somewhere.
Speaking of guys, why don't we take a moment Dave to thank
people who support the podcast index, project podcast in 2.0,
this podcast and have really been supportive. And we've been
able to run on donations since the almost since the very
beginning. If you'd like to support us it's value for value.
Whatever you get out of this. It may be just like, listen to this
podcast, you learn a little bit about what's happening. Maybe
you're a podcaster and you're excited about these features,
whatever it is. Just turn that into a number and send it back
to us. You can find our our Donate button. It's hidden in
pod station. But if you go to podcast index.org scroll down to
the bottom. Big Red Donate button to hit that up. And Dave
who can we thank as our supporters for for this week.
We're podcasting. index.org
Well, the first speaking of hosting companies rss.com Ah,
there you go. Bit basement and now and Alberto. They gave us
$500.
Wow, man and not only do they they they live up to their name,
don't say hey rss.com It's ours. It's important. Thank you. Thank
you guys. So they are very, very nice.
bins, they sent us a message he says, Adam and Dave here some
treasure for podcast index. Feel free to convert to SATs and test
sending to your faves. Might we might we suggest David Norman
and Martin as a start? Right? Yes, yes. We're working on
namespace updates. And hope to have some news soon. There's
your There's your teas from your friends@rss.com podcast hosting
Alberto and
wait a minute. What's the T's here? Are they are they teasing
all kinds of namespace
things? I don't know. Where work is just as we're working on
namespace. Okay, I
love it.
It says go podcasting. Ah,
there's the crumble. Everybody loves the crumble. Okay,
do you know this person? It is Rene. Nigar Nigar spell it KNI
gg
canessa. No, I don't think so.
Can you can you from the Netherlands?
Is that Dutch? Okay. It could be it looks like it says let me let
me let me read it. At em gents. I've been listening to na since
the start on and off. And mo FX on and off. And next these next
these high quality podcasts a bunch of other ones. The podcast
in this podcast need to point gnosis to start love how it's
evolved so far. The new index deserves all the support and
love it gets. Here's my small part in supporting this Gertz
from Dan hildur, the Netherlands. Very nice.
Thank you.
Greetings, I guess Yes.
Well in in Dutch, we say crutches. That would be like
Bruce in German. And, and and somehow that when you say that
it, it turned into greets gr etc. Is that what it says? Or
your yard?
Yes gr Tz. Yeah.
It's a very Dutch thing to do. Okay. Yeah. Okay. We appreciate
it. Thank you.
Yes, that was a he gave us $50. Nice.
Thank you. I don't understand it says Rene. And then it says Dan
Helder.
10 Helder is the place he's from. That's northern Holland.
been there many times? Alright. So thank you, Renee.
They have a helicopter landing pad of their military.
Thomas umstead. He gave us $25. He said you should create a
podcast 2.0 certification badge that compliant apps and hosts
can use it. Don't we have those somewhere? We do. And I just put
it up on the namespace. Oh, nice. Yes. Although I'm not
happy with it, because it says it says podcast index namespace.
And I feel like it should just say like, podcasting 2.0 or
something like, Oh, yeah, let
me take a look.
If you go to the names, if you go to the namespace repository,
and it's on the readme and scroll all the way down to the
bottom. It's pretty it's very pretty. Benjamin Bellamy made it
for us. But I feel like it shouldn't say our name. No,
it what it should say is podcasting. 2.0 certified.
Yeah, yeah, that's what we need. Okay, so my, if somebody can can
grab that and morph it and change.
I love that so much. Like, Hey, I gotta change to the to your
website. Just pull request. Okay. I love that. That's the
way it's supposed to work, man.
This will allow those of us on other apps to put pressure on
our hosts to get podcasting. 2.0 certified. I saw this happen
with IB certification, that peer pressure was intense. IB
certified hosts cool. Hey, even that,
I got an idea. Right?
When you are podcasting, 2.0 certified, which means you have
you're implementing multiple tags, you get instead of paying
for that badge from us, we give you a free node for a year. Like
it with a badge. So you get a badge that says you're
compatible. And we give you a gift. I like it. Yeah, you don't
pay us we pay you exactly. We'll give you a node. And that will
incentivize you to put up to add the value tags because you can
and will add your node to the index and you're good to go free
from delicate value for value. Gatsby. Don't pay 40 grand for
an IAB certification have a free node.
don't pay anything at all. I be certified hosts were cool. Even
though most podcasters had no idea. No idea what AIB
certification Really?
Right. Yeah.
No one knows exactly what it is.
Thank you, Thomas. 25 bucks. Thank you. Yeah, he I think he
was on the mastodon yesterday. Oh, cool. Yeah. Let's see. Who's
this? Oh, okay. Dred Scott. Came gave us 26 bucks,
drab, Dred Scott.
Dude, you need to stop man. Yeah, it's
like time, talent, treasure. It doesn't have to be all three.
You're doing time. Now. I'll get time. Okay, because you'd listen
to the show anyway. But your talent you're very talented at
at making these chapters, adding images to it. Fuck it. That's
time to you don't need to keep it in the treasure, man. I
appreciate it. And we were just sending it right back to him.
Does he have a node now? Do we get him a node? Yeah,
no, yeah, he's getting set up. He's gonna stop or he's got a 5%
split.
Where's this node? Is he a Sphinx node? Or is it God?
Yes. Thanks. Yes.
That's how it should be man.
Stop giving it back to us.
We're sending it to you. Stop, stop. Stop the circular stuff.
Yeah.
It says Happy ponemos supporter. Give me a give me a you've been
defragmented jingle so I can hear My Sassy little four year
old while working on chapter markers.
Show number donation to go with my monthly aggregator donation
Keep up the great work nice. Oh, man.
Thank you so much, man. Yeah, a big part of this revolution.
Yes. Thank you,
you know, without without his chapter creation and the images
we wouldn't have wouldn't have pushed over the edge so quickly.
Yeah, he he got chapters off the wall. The runway.
Yeah, I mean people see it like, holy crap, look at all this
stuff. And then you see the fun stuff he's doing with it. And
even now he said, What did he say? He he he had an interesting
question about chapters that I just wanted to add this to our
hot namespace talk. On a second I think it was it was no agenda
social.com a second. It was something Hold on one moment.
Here's
something about chat about the way the chapters work.
It was it was snow about putting something a link into the into
the chapters when someone mentioned something. Ah. Oh,
gosh, darn it. I can't remember now.
But it had to do with the automated the GPT three chapter
stuff, maybe?
I don't know. Here's the problem. I don't know if it was
on. If he sent that message to me on the mastodon for
podcasting index. What Yeah, what why don't you get it? Why
don't you continue?
Why don't we get one last year?
I'll see if I can find this real quick.
This is $20 from see super cereal marketing LLC. It's Simon
Aaron aronowitz. And this is a long note. Let me see if I can
do it justice here. In the morning, Adam and Dave and thank
you for your courage. Since shortly after you launch podcast
index and podcasting 2.0 podcast I've been following your
progress intently. My business my business gets super cereal
fell into podcast and online TV show production last year after
the lockdown mitt nobody wanted to invest in marketing services.
Our modest $20 is a small financial contribution to your
worthy efforts to modernize, modernize podcasting, while
keeping it open. And to celebrate the launch of our
first show to show business show. Oh, yeah. Listen, I
started listening to it yesterday. Yeah. Yep. Our first
episode was released yesterday. And both video and podcast links
can be found at www dot show business show. Our focus is the
business of podcasting and online shows. On our premiere
episode, our guest was James Cridland editor of pod news. We
talked about the new announcement from Spotify,
including monetization for podcasters. And I wonder if he
if James was as cranky on that show. As he is on pod land,
because he is cranky about the value tag. He is not down with
it. He was cranky about
it.
Yeah. Isn't it?
What did he say?
He said he doesn't think that it's a good idea to have to
incentivize to basically reward people people for just having
long shows like The per minute. Whoa, buddy. Know About the
boost? Well, how
about how about just increasing your SATs per minute? You can do
it by show individually?
Yeah, just are boosted. Yes. Yeah, man.
Burn what a burn. And I'm always I'm always sending him SATs and
I'm always boosting in Hmm.
You gotta take some of that back. No, no, no, he's
an advertising guy. He's they're invested in all that
is he's he's he's he's in Australia's in a funky timezone.
He misses all the good stuff. And he just aggravated about it.
So I thought I found the note from Dred Scott. And it was it
was it wasn't all it was spectacular, I thought. But he
said when people plug a website in their donation notes, such as
we just did, yep. Are you okay with me creating a chapter that
links to that?
Yes, yes.
That's beautiful. So, on this donation, say it again? And then
we'll tell people they can click on the link in the chapter.
Yeah. See, www dot show business dot show. Let's see. Wait, where
was lost my place? Oh, yeah, here it is. We talked about the
new announcement Spotify bubble. We played several clips,
including one from podcasting 2.0 Episode 24. Adam, the
timecode is 5335. Though I hope you'll find time and time to
listen to the whole thing. And see, as well as some opinions
about Adams views on free speech and streaming value for value.
James also has some very spicy comments about Joe Rogan who now
wait a minute not to that point.
Wait a minute. So James was was grumpy about the value for value
on the show business show?
No in the pot, pot pot land.
All right. Yeah. I don't know what to listen to first.
We'd like James a lot, and this is anything but throwing him
under the bus. We know we get some great content from our
first episode, and we'll be clipping it accordingly. We're
video first so we're hoping for some verb virality from the
interwebs. We were always marketers first, but also also
always through creating high quality and persuasive content,
grab them with a strong headline. That's why in part,
we're big fans of podcasting to point, those objectives. My
business partner, Bailey and I are very much looking forward to
making the most out of the new feature set, including streaming
value for value. We're also both free speech advocates. And so
according, I'm not going to read this location, so accordingly
has a constitutional right to say what, what he wants. I, on
the other hand, living in the northwest of England to see live
under the crown is, this is a long note. I'm not sure if I can
read all this well.
Okay, can you finish the note?
Yeah, I'll just I'll just jump jump in. Say I'll wrap this up
now and apologize for the verbosity of this note. However,
this is a huge vote of support for what y'all are doing. In
closing, I'd like to invite those listening again to check
out the show business Show at www dot show business does show.
And if you didn't see that pop up and your podcast app, you've
got an old app, you need to get one of those newfangled apps,
then go to new podcast apps.com. And I was can't get over this.
And we need to bring Guillermo back in because Are you still
there? Gilliam? Are you asleep? Are you with us?
I'm here, I think they should read the full note. Because then
who have more sets training?
Let me think you know, this is this is a very interesting if
they had never considered this as an objection. But isn't it
the same? Isn't it ultimately your time? That time is money
your your time is valuable? If you have a short podcast, you
can't have a mid roll and a beginning roll and enroll, you
know, so you also will have less income? Technically, unless you
jam it full of ads. I I don't see how it's unfair. I think
it's one of the most fair things I've ever heard of, particularly
because you can set the money you send yourself.
Oh, okay. So the, the the example you use was pod news.
Bad news is a very short show. But he makes a valid point. He
says it's very short, but it's very valuable. And I agree. I
agree. But that's where the boost is. And that's where you
jack your slider up.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I'm always hitting a boost on him.
Yeah, you set your boost to me know, to five 5000 SATs or
10,000 sets. And you
this is where we could really use the I think was part of your
your documentation, the recommended SATs per minute.
Mm hm.
You know, that should be for a shorter show that should be that
should be set higher.
Or if somebody just believes their show is very valuable.
Yeah. Well, okay. I have to listen to what exactly what he
said, No, I really appreciate this kind of I appreciate all
criticism and all kinds of feedback. I just want to make
sure if I'm understanding the problem, right, because I think
I think this is something that's easily addressed without even
changing anything. It's just it's just a philosophy. Yeah, I
think so too. And I think it's already I think the parts are
already there.
Well, well, what I'm going to do now is let me see so I'm
streaming it let me just see when I'm because I always listen
to it on pod station. Almost always. So let me just see. So
Outlander
pod news.
pod news. Got some just think so pod news is typically about
three minutes. So let's just say for now, three minutes is
probably fair or four minutes. And let me see I'm streaming at
3000 SATs per hour. So what is that? 50 SATs a minute? Am I
saying that? Right?
Don't ask me to do that. I think so.
Right? You've had your head into it. Right?
I have no idea. I'm terrible at
50. If I have 50 SATs times 60 minutes, that's 3000.
Yes. Okay.
All right. I'm gonna up that. I'm gonna boost him. $5
Oh, yeah. You're putting your money where your mouth is just
right at a baller baller. Boost, right? baller boost. All right,
I want it. I want him to be happy. I want everybody to be
happy. Guillermo, how can I make you happy? What can we do to
make your life better as a developer?
Just keep using both station and distributor sets to me and I'm
happy.
Baby.
Very nice. Very nice. All right, Dave, anything we can do for you
to make your life easier.
Oh, gosh. Maybe? I don't know what it is though.
Okay, well, you will send me a memo and I will I will put me on
the distribution list on mail. What do we have coming up in the
next week? Do you think the breeze guys are getting close to
releasing next week? Do you think anything like that?
Feels what I needed that. I spent the last few days heads
down to documentation, mostly for them because they needed.
They, they really wanted to have some stuff to link to when they
did their release, which is cool. Yeah. And I've got I've
got the documentation come in, excuse me documentation posted.
And then there's wrote a blog post just to give some context
to it. So I think, I think they're close. I don't know if
they're, I don't know how many how close but
they follow. Follow breeze mobile and GitHub. And you know,
there's there's pull requests, like, which I thought was really
cool. Get notify the user if funds are running low while
playing a podcast. This is good. This is good. Just a little hint
there. guiliana just saying, you know, there's us stuff that
people like get more money, get more snaps.
Yeah, all of pod stations, funding links, go back to gamma
anyways. Yeah,
that's right.
He just sent it to him directly. Yeah. All right, gentlemen.
We'll get there. But thank you so much for joining us. It was
great to get to know you a little bit better. And thank you
guys so much for the value you're bringing to the entire
project is really appreciated.
Thank you. It was great to be here.
Dave, last words for you.
I've got to return to work and actually do real day job stuff.
So we all my words and my words are over.
We all have a job. Alright. Thanks again, man. Have yourself
a great weekend. Have a good weekend, my friend. We'll do
another one next week podcasting 2.0 podcast index.org. See you
then.
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