Podcasting 2.0 for May 29th, 2026, episode 261, Podhemian Grove.
Well, we are back. Just one week off. Hello, everybody.
Welcome to Podcasting 2.0. This is where it all goes
down. The boardroom, the board meeting where we talk about
all things podcasting, everything that's We are in fact the
only boardroom that actually knows what a podcast is. I'm
Adam Curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill
Country and in Alabama, the man who checks all his
package managers daily. Say hello to my friend on the
other end, the one, the only Podsage Dave! Maybe not
all of them. No, you should be checking every single
one. Every single one! I don't see the pot, the
live. I don't see the live bot. Well, I pinged
the pod. Hmm. Podcasts live at podcastindex.social. Oh, we are
not. No. Hold on a second. It shows nothing. Let
me see what's going on here. Let me see. Let
me see. Okay, here we are. Debugging the show already.
Let me check. That's half of our show. We're live.
I have a good. I'm pretty sure I have. You
know what? Is it bad if I regenerate the GUID
even if I've already done a new one? For the
live Adam? Yeah. No, go ahead. Okay, did it again.
Okay, save, publish. Publish. sending to server successfully, and then
I'll just... Uh... I'll just hit this again. 22. Oops,
hold on. Eleven. Going live. Sam Sethi says we are
live. All right. Well, if Sam says it, then we
are live. I mean, we're. streaming hello boardroom i agree
with that because sam's products have the most stringent rss
feed requirements in the in the universe so you can't
you cannot sneak anything past Even legitimate stuff sometimes you
can't sneak past. Although there was something with the payment
metadata that was... off. payment metadata? Yeah, there was... Oh,
I need to fire up my... For true fans, you
mean? Yeah, there was something. And I've been seeing it,
too. It was like something was... You know, you'd have
to resolve the metadata in Helipad. Yeah, who knows? Is
someone sending invalid data? I don't know. It's amazing, any
of this stuff. works at all, to be honest about
it. Hold on, let me see. Where's my, where my
helipad at? Where my helipad, helipad, helipad? That bears repeating,
honestly. What? It's amazing that any of this stuff works
at all? Yeah. It's the God honest truth, man. I'm
always amazed. I'm like... Yeah. Yeah. But people get so.
I'm mad. jaded. It doesn't work me! Well... A lot
of things don't work. Yes, no kidding. My first and
second marriage being great examples of that. I was restricting
my comments to just the technology sphere. I'm sorry. But
I mean, that's all, you know, feel free. All right.
Feel free. The helipad is up and rolling, so that
looks good. Okay. Captain Sweatpants says that tiles.podping.org shows that.
The pod pings are going through. There must be something
wrong with Spurlock's bot. Well, the live bot, the lit
bot in the... in the boardroom has registered us as
live, so that should be good. Spurbot. Spurbot is broken.
Spurbot. The spur bot. Is that an actual name? The
spur bot? It is now. How you been, brother? Sorry
about last Friday. No, it's fine. Where'd y'all go? Nashville?
Yeah, for the, uh... for the big K-Love Awards fan
weekend. Yeah, which people, a lot of people... will not
know what that is and I'm not entirely clear what
that is. So K-Love is a ministry they bought up
pretty much every single Christian contemporary music radio station in
the country and simulcast one signal now to all of
them. That sounds like a thing that happens a lot
and is never good for anybody. Yeah, well, exactly. It's
removed all local radio, which is, you know, why there's,
for some reason, I have a feeling that someone's trying
to do something about that. What is that company called?
um I know what you're talking about. So they're in
Nashville where all the writers are, the musicians, most of
them, that is. And so, you know, they're all kind
of beholden to K-Love. So K-Love has a concert Friday
night in the Gaylord Hotel at the Biodome, which is
pretty cool because the big ballroom holds probably two and
a half. 3,000 people. And the sound is good and
they got screens. And my favorite, the words are on
the screen so you can sing along. Have a bouncing
ball. No. It should though, that's kind of funny. And
then they have writers round. round tables, you know, the
writers talk about the song and the story behind it,
which is unfortunately a lot of, actually I talked about
this with Pastor Jimmy on We Get to Do This
on today's show. A lot of it's like, well, you
know, my sister died, I got cancer, I backed up
over my dog, you know, it's like. Eh eh. In
fact, the whole weekend was ashes to beauty. I'm like,
ugh. Where's the joy in the Lord when things are
going great? Yeah, it was a little depressing. Well, that's
very 2026, honestly. Yeah, totally straight up. And then Sunday
they had Levi. Lusko, who's a... He was from Los
Angeles. He was in the music entertainment business. He became
a pastor in Montana, of all places. He's got a
pretty big church there. And he's a young guy, you
know, great, great sermon. And, you know, then, of course,
Elevation Worship. And then Sunday night is the big... like
a proper award show from the Grand Old Opry. It
airs tonight on TBN. And if you are into the
Kalshi and Polymarket, CeCe Winans will be the Artist of
the Year, so you can go and bet on that
right now. Polymarket, are you... Former Google employee? No, I
was at the show, so I know who won. So
you can go bet on it. I guarantee you she'll
win. I'm not actually supposed to say that. We're all
sworn to secrecy. Yeah, but there's no NDA, so you're
good. Correct. Correct. So, yeah, so actually it was really
nice, but I just completely spaced. I'm like, oh, man,
we're supposed to do the show. And it was crazy.
We were so busy, but my robot has been working
so well on my show prep. And with that, I
say. so well because Here's my observation all things AI.
I'm sure you have this. It doesn't matter if you're
doing code, show prep, editing clips, whatever you're using your
robot for. There is. very little Consistency? Reproducibility and iteration.
So if you, if I had an intern. And I
said, intern, look at this list and make clips of
every single URL. The intern, once they figured out how
to do it, they would do it. And they'd just
be making clips. Yeah. 40% of the time. The robot
will go, well... You know, I didn't think you needed
a clip of that because you talked about that three
shows ago. And so I just skipped it. And, you
know, yeah, I know I have knitter to get the
X videos, but it wasn't up. So I decided to
just let it go. So that's the consistency part. Reproducibility.
This is my favorite. Everybody can do this. Go to
your favorite robot and type in, show me a house
with a chimney and a cat in the window and
a dog in the yard. And then get the picture
and then do the exact same prompt and see that
it's a completely different picture. Yeah, on a fresh session.
On a fresh session. Iterating is my favorite. And you
can do this with images. I do it with clips
like, hey, could you just take that last word off?
And then it does something completely different. Hey, I love
this picture. Could you just make your hair blue? Sure.
It'll make the hair blue and the sky a different
color and the grass will be gone. It'll be cement.
Yes. So the intelligence part of AI is non-existent. So
it is a great tool. You just have to be
on top of it all the time. I literally... I
have this great little bit for credits. So while no
agenda, end of show, mix is running, I say go
into the spreadsheet and... Actually, we created a code word,
credits, all uppercase. It should know what to do because
it has its memory MD files, knows exactly what to
do. And then yesterday, it just puts one person exec,
all the rest of the associate exec with the numbers
they donated and their titles and their jingle requests. Like,
what are you doing? Why are you doing that? Oh,
yeah, you're right. No, I have a memory file about
this. It won't happen again. Let me take a note
of that so it won't happen again. Well, this is
bull crap. It'll happen again and again and again. So
this is going to create. So I am more productive.
This is completely true. I am more productive. I do
spend a lot of my time correcting it, but I'm
a lot more productive. I can live more and show
prep less. Um... It's not going to replace any, it's
not even going to replace an intern. An intern would
be better at this point and cheaper because interns should,
you know, I would pay $200 a month for an
intern to do all the work. I can't find one.
So it's only going to create more jobs and everything
is vastly overvalued. There you go. That is your report
from Boots on the Ground from Adam Curry. So... I
wish I could give you... Let me ask you a
question. Do you see these same issues when using robots
for coding? Oh, well, so yes and no. The For
to back you up, though. first of all. um In
the financial world. you The futurologists and the permanent conference
speaker class, they're still infatuated with AI. And they're making
tons of money talking about it. Yes. Travelling around to
conferences saying how AI is... future and it's going to
replace everybody's job. But on boots on the ground within
the financial world, that is the reality is beginning to
set in. And it is that you give. is the
thing that you most need help with. Like. This is
a... 150 page document that I need to get some
information out of but I don't want to have to
read the whole thing in order to find these bits
of information. You can't, there is absolutely no. um way
to end on the output. of what it tells you.
Right. If you say, if you say, um, you know,
if you ask some questions about what's in this document.
You don't know whether it gave you the right answer,
but if you go and check... You can be assured
that at least 50% of the time... It is wrong.
It's the wrong answer. It is wrong. And I have
documented examples of this from... from people. Because what's happening
is you've, I think the people who are actually building
things with inference. What people have realized is the inference
itself... is not enough. I like how you say inference
where I say inference. Is it inference? Well, I think
I say that because you say that I have to
infer, you know, that somebody inferred something. It makes you
sound very smart. I'm going to try it. Inference. Well,
in that way, it reflects reality. I'm also wearing little
round glasses. Oh, like Ben Franklin glasses? Cool. No, I'm
not. you have to the reality has set in that
you have to build guardrail systems around these things. And
what you really have to do is you have to
build software. that does the thing you want it to
do. And then you bring in little bits of inference
at certain aspects of the pipeline. Right. Right. To do
things. If you just give a chat. bot or or
an or an agent if you just give it something
and let it run you're going to get wildly different
and hallucinated results. Yeah. Yeah. All the time. All the
time. So I, the main. The main tool I use
is Whisper. And I use it on together.ai so I
can... whisper. a Rogan podcast and pull something out very
quick. I mean, it's amazing because, you know, you're... pumping
up a huge GPU and it just goes so fast.
And... And so I use this for clips and I'll
say, all right, go listen to this. five-hour Senate session.
find things that are in that are you know on
my list of things of interest and then pull clips
And. And it would... It would do this with varying
variable success. And then I had this brilliant idea, and
this kind of folds in what you're saying. I said,
do you test your work? No. So, well, when you
do code. Don't you do a test if the code
works? Yes, it's called a unit test. Oh, all right.
So whenever you pull a clip, do a unit test
to make sure that you don't have a dangling word
at the end, a little blip of audio. And that
really improved it by 100%. by telling it to treat
what I'm doing as code. And it got us. Yeah.
Yeah, that's the only way that any of this works.
Yeah. So like things like It's that classic example of...
Why? how An agent like Claude Code can tell you...
can build an entire like html page but it with
javascript things running in it, but it can't tell you
how many letters there are in the, how many letter
R's are in the word strawberry. Because there's like, It
doesn't understand a way. I'm trying to be very careful
of my language. It has no mechanism in the harness.
to test those sorts of things. Right, right, right, right,
right. The only way that... You have to tell us
to do a dictionary lookup. to test it. Well, what?
No, that will actually because because anything that has if
you're asking a question. that the agent doesn't already know
a pattern of language for. then there's no way that
you'll ever get out of the model that thing that
you want. So what you have to, the only way
it can work. and get it right every single time,
is if you ask how many letter R's are in
the word strawberry, if it builds a Python script, and
actually runs code to check. the presence of the number
of the letter R. That's the only way it works.
And it's not doing that all the time because it's
too costly. You can't. I got no time to build
a Python script. I'm just going to tell you. That's
why it's terrible at math. Yeah. Because every time you
ask it a math question, it would have to go.
and create a piece of code that runs the math
to tell you the answer to the math because it
there's no can't do it it can't it can't do
it so it can't do it i know you brought
clips and i and i want to bring you back
to them so that we're not just all about the
this week in ai you We're going to, I'm going
to ask you a question that I'm going to ask
the book of knowledge. The same question. And that question
is very, it's a hot topic today, hot topic. Because
there's an entire industry, the entire podcast industry I'm reading.
No one asked you, no one asked me, no one
even asked James Cridland. What is a podcast? You're asking,
this is a question that's being posed to me. I'm
asking you, what is a podcast? um To me, a
podcast is... Media distributed. over some sort of open protocol.
Ooh, you took the some sort of path. That's interesting.
I don't want to restrict it to just our sense.
I like that. I like it. Shall we ask the
book of knowledge? Oh, Lord, yes. Book of Knowledge. What
is a podcast? According to the Book of Knowledge, a
podcast is a digital audio program made available on the
internet for downloading or streaming. typically released in episodes and
often focusing on specific topics or themes. Modern podcasts can
be accessed through various platforms and applications, allowing listeners to
subscribe and receive new episodes automatically. Thus, It has been
written. did not bring in the open protocol part. To
me, that's what the... The reason it has to be
some sort of open protocol. RSS or I would even
say if even if it's just on a website that
you can watch for free or distribute for free. I
just feel like... I feel like the most critical part
is the distribution. I'm with you on the distribution. But
I'm sure you also saw the big news. Big news.
about YouTube and Spotify and... Who else is in this
group? You talking about amp? Amp, yes, amp. The Alliance
for Measurement in Podcasting. Let's see who was in this.
Oxford Road started this up. Your buddy, Dan. Yeah, I
like Dan. Spotify. Better help. *laughs* DraftKings. Okay. Shocker. Shocker.
tell you guys what a gambling app is if you
can tell them what a podcast United Talent Agency Flight
Story Libsyn Sirius XM and Podscribe Yeah, it's... Yeah, it's...
My favorite part of this whole thing was... You. They,
quote, emerged from secret. That's how podcasting was built, baby.
In secret. Anytime somebody emerges from secret in the world
of podcasting, you can go jump off a cliff. I'm
not interested in anything you have to say. Rob Greenlee.
is uh is delighting in all this in the in
the secret uh whatsapp group he posts The term podcast
is really now defined by the audience now. That is
a challenging reality. Whatever meaning we as an industry apply
to the term podcast. will just be for the business
side of things now. I think the hard truth is
that consumption platforms and the users of those platforms now
control the meaning of podcasts. The terms creator economy and
new media are becoming the top of the funnel now.
Podcasts or podcasting are... part of those terms. We have
hard choices to make here. We are now victims of
our success. I also wonder why the IAB is not
involved in this group. Well, I'll tell you because this
is not about podcasting. This is about advertising money. And
they say so. And that's the thing that... I love
Rob, but he misses this point every single time. is
I remember just Todd going round and round with him
on the new media show about this. I miss Todd
in this moment. Todd, it would have been so great
to have you here. I'm going to kill you. I
miss him. I miss him. It just is. He just
misses, he forgets, and many people do this. It's not
just Rob. Many people do this in the podcasting world.
They forget that like 90% of podcasts... Don't make a
dime off advertising. Yes. They just do it. for either
just purely the fun of it, just for marketing, or
just for donations and buy me a coffee and stuff.
Send me some pickles. Yeah. Advertising is actually... Pain in
the butt. You know what I mean? Like, you have
to bill, you have to handle all the stuff, you
gotta bill it out, you gotta wait months to get
paid. It's a thing that a lot of people just
don't. Unless you're making significant revenue, it's really not worth
even trying. And it's so much easier to do pay.
Patreon or... Um... boosts or anything like that. It's just
got to be PayPal donations or anything because the advertising
route is such a pain. And then you have these
guys coming out of the woodworks, out of the secret.
Out of the secret. Yeah. And then it's like, oh,
we're going to tell you how all you need to
change podcasting in order to make all this stuff better.
I don't even think they're doing that. I think they're
just trying to say, hey. We're podcasts and we want
some of that podcast budget. That's all this is about.
Yeah. And perhaps it's even worse. I think it's even
worse. We're a podcast, but we belong in your new
media budget. I think that's really what it, because the
real money, the podcasting money is good, but apparently billions
and billions. But the true new media, Google, etc. money,
YouTube money, is much, much bigger. So I believe I
should probably ask Dan Granger about it. I like Dan
and we have. We should have Dan on the show.
You know, that's a good idea. He always wants me
to come into like, hey, I'm at South. I couldn't
actually do it, but I probably didn't want to do
it anyway. Like, I'm at South by Southwest. We're going
to have a panel about what is a podcast. I'm
like, oh, man, I'm sorry. I got something else to
do, which I really did. I got to wash my
hair. I got to go poke my eye out. But
that's truly the issue here is that. The podcast people
want more money. from other new media budgets. But... They
know, and this is why IAB was not invited, they
know that they really don't have a good metric. for
measuring success. And so I think it's twofold. It's one,
how do we come up with a standard way of
measuring? a podcast and you know by not inviting any
other podcast app. to the table, you're showing your cards.
Yeah, Paul said that this morning. He was like, he
was like the fact. that on this secret group there's
only one the only podcast app that's listed is spotify
that tells you everything you need to know yeah They're
not interested in any traditional podcast app. I mean, even
just to make it look better, throw Pocket Castle in
there. Somebody. But no. Yeah. I'm trying to... Did they
actually say we... came out of secret is that what
they said that's what james said i'm looking maybe him
being snarky but uh that's i'm looking at this article
He says, uh... um Let's see. Conveined amp assembling a
brain trust of 12 voting members. Voting member parties. to
address an urgent need for radical change. Here it is.
Brought together by Oxford Road, the group. The group, including
voting members from Spotify, United Talent Agency, SiriusXM, DraftKings, Lipson,
and others, have been working in secret since last summer.
Driven by what it calls industry-wide confusion. Both, and this
is their industry-wide confusion. Both a lack of standardized metrics
and disagreement about where podcasts end and social videos begin.
Yeah. This is not. If anybody thinks that what is
going to come out of this... Is some new way
to actually measure podcast Impressions better? That's not what this
is because there is no way to do that. It
is impossible. This is great. The Amp Accords website. It's
like the Abraham Accords. for dumb videos. Amphicords. Was it
signed at Camp David? A billion dollars of demand is
sitting on the sidelines. It's about the money. Which is
why leading platforms, advertisers, publishers, and creators have come together
to create the first podcast. Podcasting Measurement Framework. There it
is. Yeah, and it's going to start, I can already
tell you, it's going to start with... first party data.
Yeah. Yeah. That's what it's going to start with. It's
going to say everybody's going to have to have a
login and we're going to, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Well, here it is. The AMP Accords. The AMP Accords.
Is Trump a part of this? the ampicord. Three goals.
The Amp Accords target the measurement gaps holding podcasting back
across open RSS, closed platforms, buying, selling, and attribution. Number
one, standardize impression metrics, defining the units that all major
platforms can map to, major platforms. to develop cross-platform performance
measurement. Buzzword! create an inconsistent attribution method acceptable to open
RSS and closed systems. Oh, they're throwing us a bone.
Three, define podcast. agreeing on a universal classification for industry
sizing, buying, selling, and measurement. So the developer cross-platform creating
a consistent attribution method acceptable to open RSS and closed
platforms Can't do it. No, it's... It's not possible. It's
inherent. Thank you. Follow the amp chords. As they go
public. Ooh, they've gone public. Yeah, let's get Dan on
the show. Yeah, we do, because this feels like... This
feels like a bunch of people who feel very, who
feel like they are very important. But like thought leaders,
leading platforms, industry experts. You'd think there's a couple of
people they could have invited. Not that I'm not, not
that I feel slighted by it, but. invite Sam Sethi
yes Exactly. He's vocal. He's by the Podcast Standards Project.
Yes. Why does your voice go up when you say
that? DraftKings? Really? Better help. I've got to keep my
voice low now. DraftKings? DraftKings? Better help, yes. I mean,
like, what... This is... I'm sorry. I can't take this
seriously. So let's just... Let's just tabletop this. Let's just
game this out, Dave. Let's game it out. Is there
any type of... Is there anything the podcast index slash
podcasting 2.0 group of vagabonds? can produce for this group
now no longer secret that will be a value and
help to them? Is there something we can do? Is
there something we can provide to them that will help
them on their journey from accords to celebration? Yes, we
can tell them to stop. That will save them a
whole lot of pain. And I'm not even joking. Because
this is, nobody's going to do this. How many times
has this been? tried and expressed. is a new is
What do they really want? Our agency spends more than
half a billion dollars a year inside. inside podcasting and
I still cannot tell a CMO with confidence what counts
as an impression. Impression. Dan Granger said that. Television solved
that in 1950. Yeah, with bull crap metric. Yeah, they
couldn't tell you either. No. Digital solved it in 2005.
No, they didn't. 2005, we were still counting hits. What
are you talking about? The hit counter. Yeah. Podcasting is
the only major medium left where the platforms ask advertisers
to take their word for it and advertisers still do.
No, they don't. Radio. TV, all of it works that
way. That honor system has to end and the amp
accords point to a new beginning. And again, if you
look at this from a technical perspective, the only way...
to get Real? Playback metrics. is with first-party data. Okay,
stop. I'm just, this is, we're just tabletopping here. Okay.
This is how we did COVID. Now we're going to
do, we're going to do it for podcasting. That's right.
Yeah. If... I'm just throwing something out there. So we
have a lot of podcast apps. Spotify actually seems to
have trouble. That's why they're going to video. Um... attracting
people to use their audio product. If we all had
first party data. And we all gave it to the
Accords, the Amp Accords. Would the... amp accords cut the
podcast apps in on some of the money No! Sorry,
I went up again. It's okay. Well, then that is...
That is the The only way, the only way you
could... You could even conceive of making this work and
there's no mention of it. is if you want this
valuable data then you would have to cut the app
developers in on it, which I actually believe would be
very positive for podcasting in general. Do you think UTA...
And DraftKings. Give a shit. whether or not Um. Cast-O-Matic
gets a cut of the playback. They sh- the playback.
Yeah. If somebody listens to an ad. Mm-hmm. On Cast-O-Matic.
in a podcast. I don't think any of these people...
Give one rip. But let's just look at the analogies
they are choosing. Radio, television, etc. If I have a
blog and I put ads on my blog, regardless of
what the content is, my blog gets a cut of
the money. If I have a television station and I
run programming produced by a third party, which I may
or may not pay for, my television station gets a
cut of the money. If I have a radio station,
my radio station gets a cut of the money. But
then when it comes to podcasting, no, we're not going
to give you any money. This is the core of
their problem. If they came out and said, okay, everybody...
who gives us first-party data, and there's ads running in
podcasts, and they're on your app, you're getting a piece
of the money, it would happen overnight. You'd have no
problem. I think almost every day there would be some
developers who do the same thing. Hey, you don't want
us to track you for ads? Pay me. Just like
YouTube does. The model is there, but they're blind. They're
blind to the opportunity. If they really wanted this, I
can sit in this meeting for five minutes. Cut in
the app developers. You got yourself a business. It's that
easy. And are you really going to tell me that?
Well, I don't want to spy my users. No, no.
They'd be going, I'll take the money. They're starving. They're
starving artists. I mean that quite literally. App developers are
starving artists. I think every single one would be like,
yeah, okay, I'll do that. The fact that they did
all this in secret. To me, I can't get past
that. I'm sorry. And it's not because I'm sort of
open source. like Zealot. It's just that you can't get
credibility. Right. For an initiative like this, when you start
it with some kind of secret WhatsApp group. This just,
like, that's not, this is dumb. No, I, I. I'm
completely there with you. I'm handing them the solution to
their problem. No, I feel what you're saying, and I
know exactly what you're saying, and I think it's... It's
the right move and it's exactly what they're not going
to do. Everybody who wants... make money is making money
except app developers. Hosting companies make money. If they have
some kind of ad tech, they're making money off of
that. Everybody is making money except the app developers. Every
single person. And Why do people use a certain app?
Because they love the app. They love the way. It
functions, I love the features. You will solve this problem.
The next accord can be a party. Break out the
champagne, people. We've solved it. Dan Granger. Hello, Dan Granger.
Listen to my voice. Cut the app developers in on
the ad spend and you will have exactly what you
want. End of message. End of message. Well, you say
that, but why is it, why? App developers, raise your
hand. Because look who's involved, because look who the members
are. No, but. SiriusXM, Spotify. They're not going to cut
anybody in on that. What do you mean they're not
going to cut? Listen, if you're hosting and you have
an ad network, you're already cut in. They are. Because
they run the ad networks and the... and the uh
and the app i can literally i can literally run
the numbers and show you that it would be accretive
to their business if they cut the app developers in.
but they don't care. Yep, they do care. They want
this. That would be like Google. Saying that Firefox needs
to get a cut of all the ad revenue that
comes that served from Google's ad service. verse. Well, now
they're not going to do it. Now this is a
very interesting, interesting case. um Apple. gets a huge amount
of ad revenue for sending stuff to Google. to Google
search. - Traffic, yeah. - Traffic, yeah. You know, I
think it's apples and oranges. You saying they're not going
to do it is probably the default correct answer. But
if they did do it, tabletopping, remember. Lab 257. We're
just... We're just gaming this out, baby. Red team, red
team. If If you cut the app developers in, the
problem would be solved overnight. And everybody would have the
same metrics. It'd have better metrics than you can even
imagine. There would be upsell type metrics. You know, hey,
log it. You could even, the app developers could cut
their customers in. I can see the ecosystem right in
front of my face. And I think app developers have
moved beyond the, I just want to be the neutral.
No, you're starving. So why wouldn't you? You know who
doesn't care? Users. don't care. Users get tracked and monetized
everywhere except on podcast apps. Everywhere else, you're monetizing. People
are monetized by apps and by websites and by computer
operating systems. The users actually don't care anymore. So why
don't we all join hands and let's jump in. It's
now called the Atom Accords. And is Netanyahu going to
be signing this? You had to take me there, huh?
I mean, if it's called the Accords, I mean, come
on, that's only a Middle East thing. We will open
the Straits of Podcasting. If you join the Adam Accord.
The oil will flow. It will flow like money, like
black gold, I tell you. That's the way you sell
this thing. You come out of secret and you say,
we're going to reopen the Straits of Hormuz. but we
just need all the podcast apps to give us first-party
data. I'm telling you. Yes. That's it. That's it. And
I just want a show of hands. Well, you know
what? Screw that show of hands. Boost in. Let me
know if you're an app developer. Would you give first-party
data for a cut of the money? Let's see. Uhhhh
I'm Sam Sessy. Sam Sethy. Uh, 777. Do you recall
our conversation on Podcasting 2.0 about reverse sats? I think
with splits you can pay the app dev, the podcast,
and even a small amount for the listener. Then everyone
wants to hear ads. Yes, I recall. Yes. I understand.
No, that is not the way the Adam Accords are
going to work. Straight up Sam Sethi boost me back.
If you could get, if you gave first party data
to the advertising agency. And you got paid, you got,
you know, 10% or 15% or 5%. Of the ad
revenue, would you take it? You are the most commercial-minded
guy I know. Make your choice wisely. Okay, let's just
wait and see what he says. We'll wait until he
comes back. And, you know, Martin's out there listening. Mitch
is out there listening. Everyone's out there listening. Why don't
we bring in Mike and see what he has to
say. I wonder what he says. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome
back. He's been on the boardroom before, I think. Yes,
I'm sure he has. Sam Sethi with a ceasefire violation.
Welcome back to the boardroom. Hey everybody, it's Mike Dell
on the microphone. Hey, how's it going guys? I had
all kinds of comments and if I was recording them
it would be an interesting subtract. Well, we're sorry. We're
sorry. We completely forgot about you. We're in our own
little world. Mike. Tell us exactly what you do at
Blueberry. I am the VP of operations, which basically chief
bottle washer and do a little everything. You know, we're
a small team. So we would now, Blueberry has ad
networks. You have ad monetization systems in place. What do
you think of the Adam Accord's idea of cutting in
the app developers on the ad spend if they deliver
first-party data? Yeah, you know, they're giving data. They should
get something in return for it. On the other hand,
how much data do you actually need? You know, if
I do an ad on somebody's podcast, I'm going to
measure it by how much did I sell because of
that ad, not how many people listened to it or
skipped over it or ignored it. Coming in with three
sevens on the set, Sam Sethi says... Survey says, hell
yes, I'll take the money. Exactly. Of course. That's just
spoken like a true Samson. He now takes a seat
at the right hand here in the Adam Accords. I'm
really getting out there. I got to be careful what
I'm saying. Lightning bolts are in the air. But it's
really that simple. It's that simple. I think it's actually
a great idea. They should do that. Stop monkeying around.
Stop circle jerking with meetings. All right, who's going to
do the coffee and donuts next time? No. Put it
out there. This is the kind of thing that podcast
people have loved for so long is to have. nonprofits.
and steering committees. Oh, yes. Everyone grab the wheel. What
could possibly go wrong? Steer the car. Yeah, exactly. And,
like, we need a, you know, we need a... a
foundation for so-and-so. I mean, it's like, and all that
stuff evaporates. I think you're, I think you're wrong. DraftKings
would love to know exactly how many people heard their
ad. and their location and what app they were using
and their operating system. Were they walking? Were they sitting
down? Were they sleeping? Were they in bed? And, you
know, for a little extra Benny, I want to know
who they are. Now, I'm sure people will give that
up. That's your reverse sat, Sam Sethi. Hey, if you
give me a login and you give me your name
and some details, I will give you 5% of my
5%. This is America. This is how we operate. DraftKings
is probably not... a great example because they would they
have would have the immediate vested interest to, they would
just. or something like polymarket. They would immediately just monetize
that information. was like bet on how many people listen
to our ads in uh well okay On the Roku.
Now you're just being funny. I have delivered a solution
for the podcast industry that held meetings in secret. No,
I believe in the Adam Accords. I will be... The
ambassador for the Adam Accords. I will gladly- I will
gladly go with some sort of tribute to whoever, but
they will not talk to us. Mike, would you like
a title in the Adam Accords? Oh, sure. I'll take
anything. Well, there's your answer, everybody. It's very simple. We
don't have to have any more conversations or meetings. The
top podcast apps will all take your money. It's that
simple. And the users will be even happier for it.
Hey, we're going to promise them to give them the
right ad at the right time. That old yarn. Yeah.
In your fridge, you'll order your milkshake. But it's, you
know, and I actually have this on my list. You
know, I heard the surprising story that the BIPOC podcast
creators has closed. Because no one gave him money anymore.
And the money they got. was to enter into podcast
awards. Are you kidding me? This is nuts! So yeah,
once DEI folded, your money went away. It doesn't mean
that podcasting is racist. or that we don't love you
or that you're not welcome here. It was a virtue
signal to start with. whole thing is just like duh
Sir Spencer said... I have to say. He said they're
not looking for, they just want confidence. They're not like...
They're not looking for – they aren't looking for saying
something true. They're looking for saying something with confidence. Buh-duh
That sounds... to me That is such a... insightful thing
to say, I think. That has connotations. for our entire,
I think that. Well, it's true. Ask connotations for everything
today. Yes, but that's what Nielsen has always been. It's
confidence. They came up with a metric. Everyone agreed on
it early on, 1950s. I'm like, okay, that's it. We
don't question it. We don't say it's no good. We
don't compete with it because it works for everybody. So
yes, it's confidence. And the Atom Accords will deliver mega
confidence and upside you've never even thought of. Stop circle
jerking, you people! Dan Granger, call me. Slide into my
DMs, baby. Let me talk to your group. I will
represent all the independent podcast apps except for Overcast. No,
if you talk to the Abraham or whatever their accords
are called. The Amp Accords. If you talk to the
Amp Accords, they're going to say things like they did
about you. about you and the podcast standards project in
the room. They're like, everybody was in agreement except Adam
who was heckling. What? That happened? Don't do video. That
happens? Somebody's got to heckle, you know. Was that in
a report? Was that in the meeting notes? I missed
that. I think, I don't know who said that, but
I remember it. Except Adam. Yeah, he was sitting there
saying, don't do video. Y'all are doing the wrong thing.
Stop before you go off a cliff. There you go.
Yeah, well, we'll see. The whole video thing, I think,
is all about advertising. Yes, it's part of the... They're
trying to solve... We tried to... to meet them in
the middle, solving a problem that didn't really exist by
making video. Oh, well, if we do video, then all
of a sudden it's understandable. Oh, it's video. It's like
YouTube. Yeah, exactly. No, it's not. It's not because it's
delivered differently. You still have the different metrics. Unless... unless
you listen to the sound of my voice. Well, some
of the platforms are doing the alternate enclosure, which is
closer to... The free and open. You know, there's some
doing it via API. We're right kind of in the
middle of developing all that stuff here at Blueberry. But
you see, the thing is, it's not about open or
closed. That's irrelevant. It's about... Money Flow Yeah. That's all.
You want first-party data? Put your money where your mouth
is. That's it. Is that it? What is my... Mike,
what is Blueberry doing on video? We're going to be
doing the Apple HLS. We'll support as much as we
can, of course, because that's what customers seem to think
they want. How does that get measured? How do you
measure your HLS? video is that a different metric than
uh than you have for audio I assume it's going
to be very similar because, you know, even with Apple,
you know, they're pulling it from our servers. So we'll
have the log files on that. So we'll definitely develop.
Uh... stats. It'll be similar to what we do for
audio here's a question you have advertising products correct We
have for audio, yes. We have audio programmatic. Okay, so
you offer this to your clients, your customers, who pay
you handsomely on a monthly basis, and then you... interface
or your company interfaces with the advertisers, the agencies buying
the ads. It's probably a sound stack. I'm just guessing.
um with some other big conglomerates. It's a third party
that does the ad. And you give them the stats
and they pay you and then you take... your cut
and you pay the podcaster. Correct. If you had... I
mean... just seems so simple to me. Duh. I'm at
a loss for words. It's so simple. It's so easy.
The Adam Accords. You're stuck on the Adam Accords. The
Adam Accords. I mean, I've already, it's in stone. It's
on two tablets. It's good to go. It's good to
go. Don't throw it down the mountain. I'll just make
you two more. Don't worry about it. Stone is cheap.
Make more. I think this is a winning solution. And
we're uniquely positioned. to help them. do this and then
i'm i'm just going to say i think i think
that this will be heard But they don't want help
because they did it all in secret. That tells me
they don't want help. Well, no, they're just misguided. They're
misguided! No they are! They're mis- They don't see the
forest for the trees. Adam, your critical flaw. is that
you are too optimistic. You are not nearly cynical enough
and beat down. They're also aiming at the top. 5%
of podcasters, however you define that. Which is even dumber.
I mean, how many... Just your Sam Sethi. Answer this
question. How many... How many listening hours do you think
that True Fans provides? on a daily, weekly, monthly basis.
I bet it's a lot. And how many ads are
running that you could report back on? I bet it's
a lot. Now you add all of the podcast apps
together, it starts to get pretty interesting. Yeah, and you
know the shows that get 100 downloads an episode. can
be just as valuable to those hundred listeners that, you
know, somebody like Rogan that gets millions. Of course. And
once you know, once the user, the user is told.
Hey, I'm going to give you a... A widget If
you create a login. or I'll cut you in or
whatever it is. You know, we kind of like that
in podcasting. We like distributing to everybody except to the
app developers for some reason. And, you know, how many
times have we heard hosting companies should support app companies?
You know, everyone holds their own, but there's a billion
dollars of money out there. A billion. A billion is
a lot. A billion dollars. Well, way back in the
day, you know, when we had Blueberry, we pretty much
started, you know, as an ad agency for podcasters. Yeah.
And, but we tried to sell a a lot of
little shows getting the same number of downloads as... three
or four big shows. But the ad buyers are lazy
and they don't want to. They don't want to keep
track of 200 shows. Let's run the numbers. A billion
dollars. They're saying a billion dollars extra money. It says
it right there, a billion dollars. On the sidelines. Okay,
we'll help you bring in a billion dollars by creating
a new metric. That's a thousand million. All right. So
what if of that thousand million, we take 10%, well,
5%. That's $50 million. How many podcast apps are there?
starts to get interesting people what if you could make
a hundred grand on your app I don't know about
this billion dollars sitting on the sidelines. Oh, absolutely. Of
course. Like it's just sitting there. No, no. No, no,
no. Waiting to be, quote, deployed? No, it's a billion
dollars of money that's going to YouTube. That's what it
is. Oh, okay. You have to figure out the code
language. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's a billion dollars that's only
going to YouTube, and that's why YouTube's in the group.
This is no good. Those guys suck. Are they in
this group? I didn't think they were. Oh, I thought
they were. I thought they were. Wait, let me go
back to the amp accords. Members. Okay, members. Flight Story,
Lipson, Oxford Road. Podscribe. Better help serious XM Media. Oh,
they're not in there. Yeah, no, they're not in there.
Oh, well, it makes it even better. So this is
starting to make more sense. And UTA. So Spotify. is
in this spotify and sirius they want to take my
youtube money everybody wants they want to get the money
yeah everybody wants okay okay this is not serious this
is not a serious endeavor It could be. I bet
you they got an LLC. you 501 3C. Oh, yeah,
for sure. But this is not a serious endeavor. Hey,
Mike, you were supposed to be on last week. I
apologize. I actually invited you the week before. I mean,
I'm such a mess. That's okay. That actually wasn't me.
That was my robot. Make sure you invite Dell over
there. By the way, congratulations on the 10% increase in
the stock price of Dell. computers. I'm very happy for
your family. They popped today. Congratulations. It's funny. I get
email every once in a while because I have the
email address mike at mike dell dot com. People email
and complain about their Dell computer. I always tell them.
Go buy a Mac. That's what I do. That's great.
Buy a Mac. Dude, you got a Dell. Yeah, what's
your, give me your service ID number and I'll see
what I can do. Let me log into your computer.
Give me your password. No, Mike, you had an exciting
bit of news, which is not. necessarily new news right
now, but we do want to have you promote your
wares. Yeah. Brendan from Podpage and Blueberry got together and
decided that Blueberry sucked at making landing pages that weren't
WordPress. Who decided that? You or him? No, we both
did. All of us kind of did. It was mutual.
Well, you know, we had started on making a competing
product to Podpage. And the further we got into it,
he says, this is hard. These guys are doing good.
So, you know. Brennan reached out to me first, but
I was real close to reaching out to him and
I said, hey, let's do a deal. So now if
you're a hosting customer at Blueberry, you have a choice.
You can use PowerPress and do a WordPress site. Or
you can do a pod page and you get that,
you know, get the free basic. a decent looking page
from Podpage just by having a Blueberry hosting account. -
Do you mind if I ask you some business questions
about this? Just out of pure interest? - Sure, but
I'm under NDA. I'm just, I'm, you know, channeling my
inner Todd. That was good. That was good. That was
very good. Actually, my heart stood still for a moment.
Like he's speaking to me from heaven. So do you
get a benefit if someone converts to a paying customer
on PodPage? Yeah, we have a relationship that way or
either way. If they send us a hosting customer, we
send them a... A pod page customer. Excellent. Well, I'm
a pod page customer. I like them very much, and
I pay a lot of money to them to have
the... my own.com working on their stuff. So it's very
good. You know, I've dealt with customers for, you know,
15 years using PowerPress and I've come to the conclusion
that unless you're into WordPress. it's not a good place
to put a newbie. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Whereas
pod page, you know, you go over there, you can
make it look the way you want and it works
really well. It's just a no brainer. If you just
want a simple landing page, which you want your own.com.
That's awesome. You know. And it's kind of the opposite
of, it's the opposite flow. Whereas with WordPress and PowerPress,
you create your design and then you publish. Whereas with
PodPress, you publish and the design sucks it into whatever
it needs to be. It's the opposite flow. over there
too for Blueberry customers. Ooh, fancy! Does it have a
little Blueberry logo that goes back to your website? In
the dashboard. Yeah, nice! Of course. Nice, nice. Top five
of the web. Brendan's been awesome to work with. Our
dev team and him just knocked it out. This is
probably the quickest project. we've had in a long time
for a major product release. You've been, you've been like
boots on the ground helping customers with like so long
nitty gritty details of launching their stuff. Like in a
way that I honestly don't. No. of any other. podcast
support person that does this. I mean, You're just like...
having phone calls with people to help them set up
word power press and it feels like Man, that has
just got to be... the most frustrating experience sometimes because
there's gonna be like Working on somebody's WordPress site and
they've got 27 plugins. And, you know, it's messing up
everything. Yeah, the worst part of it now is a
lot of the WordPress hosts want to upsell you security.
Oh, my gosh, you know, you got to have your
site locked down like Fort Knox. And, you know, and
they think that. Somebody hitting an RSS feed is, oh,
that's got to be a bot. We'll just block that,
you know, and it's, you know, it's just whack-a-mole, you
know, and there's, and I won't name them, but there
are some WordPress hosts out there that I. Would say,
uh, uh... Don't use them. You know? So, you know,
like I said, WordPress is awesome. I use it on
one of my shows. You know, it's... It's great. But
I also have another show that I do that is
on PodPage. And specifically because... I don't want to have
to deal with all the... Possible problems with conflicts and
all that in WordPress. Like I said, WordPress is great
for those that like WordPress and we support that 100%.
How does PodPage deal with video? Is that a thing
that they're handling yet? Yeah. They have a video player.
They take the player from the host, at least. Like
if you're a blueberry customer, you get the blueberry player
on your pod page. And, you know, as for our
video podcasts, we have a video player and they support
that. So it's really no different. You know, they're just
creating a webpage out of the RSS feed and then
you can go in and... Style it and add pages
and whatnot. I'm curious about this because... We had a
discussion this morning. in our Godcaster Signal chat. We had
a discussion this morning about stats and attribution and these
kinds of things, just going back and forth about things.
You know, the web is such a messy. environment you
have you have like uh mobile apps uh you know
of course the podcast apps and that kind of thing.
And that's a little more reliable just because there's so
many barriers to entry to get to do fraud on
a platform like that as far as like click. and
those sorts of things. Oh, yeah. I've been dealing with
that with our programmatic. Oh, have you? Okay. Oh, yeah.
Well, you can impersonate the user agent of those apps,
but you... But to actually get real traffic from an
installed app is more difficult. There you go. You're singing
my praises once again. Let's get rid of all those...
Stupid browser downloads. Scam. Well, didn't NPR come up with
something like this way back when, you know, where they
wanted the apps to put in this first-party stuff? That
was an acronym with four letters. Yeah, start with R.
Rest, rest, rest, rapid. RDA or something like that. Rad.
Rad. Rad. Rad. There you go. Radio, audio, dumbos. I
can't remember what it stood for. Rad. Something like that.
Yeah, that's close. You're close. But I feel like the
web, though. is just really There's no way to stop
a certain amount of ad fraud. and playback fraud. How
do you... How do you deal with that on something
like... pod page in If you're selling ads against it,
do you just discount? A certain amount of the traffic
that you're unsure of. I mean. Yeah, I'm not sure
how they do web analytics over there. But, you know,
any of the audio advertising is going to come from
Blueberry. Right. I really meant like on your side. like
on your side. There's got to be a certain amount
of traffic that you can't confirm. One way or another,
if it's legit, you know, like how do you deal
with the gray area traffic? Yeah, we have quite a
filter system in our stats. Yeah. You know, we... block
bots and, you know, and, you know, we'll see something.
Oh, geez, look at this. We've got, you know, 40,000
downloads from. From Chrome in New York. Okay, well that's
obviously something going on there. um you know so you
know it's a constant thing we've got you know one
of our devs that's Basically, his main job is to
monitor that stat system and, you know. Blockbots. Okay, it's
good to hear you say that because I keep thinking
that... Just from a, when I say it's good, I
mean from just a personal level, because I'm like. I
think... Sometimes that I'm like, okay, am I missing an
easier way to do this? Because blocking bots feels like
a, literally a full-time job. Yeah. It's a whack-a-mole thing.
You know, there's, they come up from time to time,
you know, it's like, I've been dealing with the programmatic
and. You know, whether do we pay this? person you
know they have they they uploaded 10 episodes in one
day And then it's constantly getting 5,000 hits a day
or 5,000 downloads a day. Okay. And then I'll send
an email and say, Hey, this doesn't really look legit.
And all of a sudden, no traffic. Right. Yeah. It
just disappears. Yeah, they just disappear. And, you know, we
used to have a free trial, you know, where, oh,
for a month, you don't have to give us a
credit card or anything. You can spin up a podcast.
Well, they'd spin up a podcast, sign up for programmatic,
and then hit it with a bot farm. And, you
know, so we had to get rid of that free
trial thing. So you did get rid of the free
trial. Interesting. There's a promo code free trial. So if
you ask, we'll give you the promo code. But, you
know, but you have to put your credit card in
now. That was the differentiator. I gotcha. I gotcha. Now,
because that, I know that's been a big. Back and
forth discussion that happens in a lot of the hosting
world is. How lenient can you be? Because I know
a lot of hosts feel like, well, if I get
rid of my free trial, period, then... you know, it
is going to hurt my, my sign up, my conversions
and these kinds of things. But I. It sounds like
y'all haven't, sounds like y'all thought the trade-off was worth
it. Yeah, it... Again, you know, free is a lousy
business model for what we're doing. For one thing, you
know, look at, you know, look at the anchor when
it started. You know, there was so many. Like, you
know, they weren't fake or whatever, but there was, you
know, hello world. And that was it. And you know,
we just don't want to. deal with that. But we
have a pretty low bar of entry. So people want
to try us out. We're pretty easy going that way.
If it doesn't work, we'll help you move. How is
the company PT? P.T. Posts. post Todd. Oh, yeah. Okay.
Because that, we're doing good. The thing was, you know,
he was kind of our vision guy, you know, and,
and definitely he had his hands in a lot of
what we did. And so, you know, we've all kind
of stepped up and took over certain parts of it.
uh He did. Here's a question. And it's just a
question because... It's a question. Were there like issues like
passwords and stuff that nobody knew how it worked because
Todd was in charge of it? Not as much. We
have Todd's son on staff. He's one of our developers,
and of course he had access to all that stuff
as well. So that, you know. Like a continuity question.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Continuity of government. Now, the other thing
is, you know, we have implemented a lot more of
that, you know, because there are people on staff that
are the only ones that do a certain thing. So
now we're done. definitely cross training and, you know, you
know, payroll we've got now three people that can do
payroll where you know before that we only had one
it wasn't time but you know you got a you
know in a small outfit like that you got to
be careful with that kind of stuff you know and
we have you know a shared one pass account, one
password account that has a lot of the company related
stuff in it. These are uncomfortable but important discussions for
small businesses. Absolutely true. Because a lot of the hosting
world is small, is very small. I mean, there's a
lot of people who are one-man shops, two-man shops, three-man.
Dude, dude. When Dvorak went in for his... double bypass.
There was some panic. Yeah. Of course. No one knew
how to get into anything. Like, what are we doing?
We can't send out the newsletter. Wake him up. Yeah,
I mean, like one day I'll see. you the passwords
for get for uh for the linode you're never you're
never gonna send me that one one day i'll put
all my servers on the godcaster account but when when
tina sees the bill she'll be like hey what is
all this yeah i guess one of the other things
that's changed at blueberry postod uh is We're now focusing
more on what we're good at and what we're interested
in doing versus trying to do everything. Right. So, you
know, this pod page deal was just one of those
things. We're not particularly good at web designs. So, you
know, why don't we give that to somebody that... does
it for a living. Good idea. and focus on what
we're good at. You know, we've got a couple other
products that are going to get shipped out to different
places. because, you know... You know, I don't want to
be in the business of worrying about what font is
on somebody's landing page. You know, I... I sent a
buddy of mine to you guys for your YouTube to
podcast feature. That is so good, man. I love that.
Yeah, and we're really going to be pushing that a
lot more because there's a lot of YouTubers out there
that their stuff would be great on audio. It's so
good because my friend, he was like, I'm going to
do a podcast. I said, what are you going to
do? I'm going to get it on YouTube. I'm like,
oh, okay, here we go. Now I got to talk
about this again. And I said, do me a favor,
sign up for this. And he did. And so this
called 10,000 miles, Vic Pepe. And I, and I, and
I always get the podcast. I'm so happy. Cause I,
I've known Vic since I was. you know, 26. I
don't need to see it. I saw that one come
in. Yeah. I don't need to see his face. So
I just want to listen, just want to listen to
you. And that's easier for me. And, and he's so
happy because it was set and forget it. You know,
he doesn't, he sees a, a charge once a month.
He's like, Oh yeah, that's for Adam. But I think
actually he's doing quite well. I think. I think it
gets a lot of downloads. What's nice about the VidDapod
thing is... Vinterbar. For the users. You know, like, I
watch a lot of YouTube. That's probably my... You know,
if I say I'm going to watch TV, chances are
it's going to be YouTube on the big screen, you
know, and, but you know, it's not, I'm not. talking
about watching a podcast and just watching a YouTube channel.
Yeah. And there's some of them that, you know, geez,
I'd like to really watch this. hour-long video but I
don't really have an hour. I'd rather have it on
my... phone stick the earbuds in and go do something
else while i'm consuming this content and That's the selling
point. Plus distribution. You're just on YouTube if you're just
on YouTube. That's right. You can distribute to 125 or
more other apps. Is that how many there are? How
many? 125? That's the best I can get. I've been
trying to figure that out. That's a lot. About 125
ways to listen to an audio podcast. Wow. That's pretty
good. You know, and then there's a certain subset of
those you can actually watch video, but I'm not the
demographic to watch long form video on a phone. Just
before we run out of time pretty soon, I want
to welcome Leo Laporte. to Podcasting 2.0. welcome welcome leo
wow yeah yeah i heard he did chapters on something
chapters yeah yeah doing chapters that's right chapter transcript setting
never would do it never be a part of that
curry group person tag and the funding tag. You're French.
boom come on we're fringe i'm happy i'm happy he's
doing that and i hope that certainly the funding tag
i hope that helps him That does well for him.
Dave, did you want to do anything with these clips
you had? Do you want to push those to the
next show? What do you want to do? Uh, we
can try, we can, yeah, we can- Flip it over
to the next show. That's fine. Okay. That's not a
problem. Yeah, that's fine. We can do that next week.
Okay. I'm just looking at the time. Should we thank
some people here? Then we'll have a few more minutes
left with Mike. Yeah, sure. Sounds good. Oh, Sam Sethi
actually comes in. as we serve thousands of listening hours
per week. We stream all MP3, MP4, or HLS content.
We can then measure the actual plays, total listen time.
We also know if an ad was played and for
how long. We have first-party data for all apps. He's
looking at this from a hosting perspective. He would, that's...
I always forget they're double. That's happening a lot, Mike.
We're seeing apps becoming hosting companies. Yeah, there's all kinds
of competition coming in, and I guess I understand it.
If you have both ends of it, that's... even better
if you got that if you have an app and
you have hosting you can do even more One time
we were thinking about making an app. I'm going to
make you guys so rich. I'm going to make you
all so rich. Well, good. Stick with me. Stick with
the Adam Accords. Success will bring us together. Let's see.
We had Martin Lindeskog with 1776's Freedom Boost. Laissez faire.
Let the market decide. I will continue podcasting without regular
ads. I have no problem listening to ads or skipping
them, but I will not be joining the secret group.
You're welcome to join the Adam Accords. It's going to
be fun. three, three, two, one, and one, two, three,
four, all with test boots. And he says the bat
signal has been received. We have a Amsterdam boomer, seven
51. Uhhhh... Coming in with 91 sats from Fountain. Miss
you guys. Hope you're back tomorrow. Well, here we are.
And then thank you, user. or 940-187-348888328 if found. change
it for your $64.97, probably about $65. The fountain is
doing weird with their numbers. I'm not sure what they're
sending out weird numbers. I'm sure this 91 sass was
probably 100. I'm not sure why that's happening. Fuzzy math?
I don't know what it is. And then I hit
the delimiter. So Dave, what do you have on your
list? We've got some PayPal's here. We've got Timothy voice.
$10. Thank you, Timothy. Appreciate it. Oh, here's a one-off.
Here's a $61.64 from Patrick Bomer. Ooh. I onboarded way
back by mention from Adam, probably on no agenda since
I learned a lot and like to support your good
work. Love the technical exploration Dave does too. Patrick Bomer,
it's B-O... B-O-M-L-O-T-M-E-R. Even the Dutch government can't do it
right. How do you pronounce it? You don't. You just
say, hey, Patrick, how you doing? Okay. Thanks, Patrick. Appreciate
it. Uh, uh, let's see. Oh. Buzzsprout. Thousand bucks. Blaze
on the Impala. Thank you, boys and girls of Buzzsprout.
It's the big hosting companies who support us. Big and
small, I should say. Lots of hosting companies support us.
And just wait until these apps start making hundreds of
thousands of dollars a year thanks to the Adam Accords.
We will be remembering you. We will keep you in
mind. We will. We'll keep you in mind. The Adam
Accords. I'm telling you. It's a thing. It's going nowhere
fast. Jorge Hernandez, $5. Thank you, Jorge. Michael Goggin, $5.
Cohen Glotzbach, five bucks. Thank you, Cohen. Christopher Reamer, $10.
Thank you, Christopher. James Sullivan, $10. Randall Black. Hey, Randy.
Five bucks. Thank you. Drebscott, $15. Thank you, Dreb. Thank
you, Dreb. Chris Bernardick, five bucks. Michael Kimmerer, $5.33. Charles
Hicks, five bucks. And that's our PayPal group. We got.
I've only seen, I only see one Boostergram and that's
from CSB. Oh, okay. Well, that's the one. Well, we
were gone last week, so I guess people just said,
screw those guys. We shot ourselves in the foot. Big
time. Uh, that is, let's see, it comes from a
bar of 20,000. sets Through Fountain, he says, Howdy Dave
and Adam. Please go to youtube.com slash at AI-ArchWizard and
watch the latest 50 minutes long video. It's my interview
with Andrew Gromit. Adam's Pal from Mevio Podshow Times, where...
Andrew is showing how to yield force of vibe coding
like Yoda to the max. Yo, CSB. He somehow wrangled
Andrew into an episode. Yes, and we should correct him
by saying that Andrew was not just from... I hired
him as the first hire at MeVio, a pod show.
because I'd worked with him in the early days on
the iPod-er stuff. He goes way back before Mevio. Does
he go back to on-ramp? No, he doesn't go back
to on-ramp, but no. But he goes back to the
very first days. And who were the guys who did
the iPod or X? One guy was in Australia. I
think, or New Zealand. I forget who they were. There
was a couple people. Grumet, you know, we work really
well together. I always enjoyed working with Andrew. We did.
We had something called the Golden Ticket. Oh, yeah, you've
told me about that. Which predates... Uh... ad insertion. where
we would have a promotion across the net across network
promotion I bet you that's what the Amp Accords, I
bet you that's what they're going to reveal. It's a
golden ticket. It's been 12 months of Podhemian Grove secrecy.
Hemian Grove. Oh, man. Oh, Dave. Oh, man. Now, if
CSB is going to be doing 50-minute interviews on YouTube,
he needs to be on VidDapod so he can listen
to it. No kidding. Yeah, for real. Yeah, really. Come
on, CSB. Support the blueberries. Mike, we're... Was Blueberry consulted
by the Ampicords? No, we were not. Oh, shock, shock.
This is an outrage, I tell you. A stunning revelation.
Well, you know, Lipson's really, you know, since they got
into the advertising side of things, you know, they're not.
They're not what they used to be. Is Libsyn a
podcast hosting company anymore or are they just an advertising
agency? I had somebody ask me that on the phone
earlier today. I said, yeah, they're still around. No, I'm
serious. It's a serious question. Yeah, you can still go
over there and get your $20 account or whatever. Do
a podcast. But I don't think that's their focus. Yeah,
it sounds like that's an, it sounds like that's like
a, what do they call those things that are like
your appendix? An appendix. No, no, but I mean like
a vestigial organ. It's a vestigial organ. Well, Rob and
Elsie left there. Side gig. Rob and Elsie left there
and now they're at Captivate. Congratulations to them. Are they
both there? Yeah. Rob's over there and Elsie. I don't
know. There's still a couple people over at Libsyn that
I know, but that's it. I used to know everybody
that worked there. Here's my final pitch. I've just been
sitting here. my creative juices. You're right, Dave. I am
a perpetually optimistic, happy guy. I really am. My pitch
would be, and this is something, I mean, maybe Sam
Sethi could organize it. I'm very bad at organizing. If
we all get together. And we just, and it can
be done, it can literally be done on the mastodon.
It's not that hard. In Davos? What's that? In Davos?
Is that where we're going to meet? Well, we will
eventually all meet in Davos, of course. We're going to
be so big. all the app developers get together and
we say, okay, here's, here's the pieces of data that
we're going to make available. And here's what we want
in return. We want this percent of your ad buy.
And we're going to give you exactly exact numbers, tell
you who heard the ads. And we're going to have
extra tiers where we talk to our customers, our users
and tell them, you know, and we'll work out something
with them. Think about that. I mean, this is totally
the reverse Sats model. Yeah, we're going to give you,
and you know what? Give them Sats. Give them stable
coin, whatever you want. Pay them easy in the app.
It doesn't have to be a lot of administration. If
you give us your name or some other personal details,
people will do this. They don't care. and especially don't
care if they know they can make some money. Be
honest with them. Be open. It'll work. Everyone will be
happy. I guarantee you we will have a summit. We're
going to do the summit in Alaska. where the amp
accords and the atom accords will meet on the tarmac
we will We'll be coming in with a DC3. We'll
all fall out of this thing like a clown car.
Full of cash. Full of cash. Just pallets of cash.
Pallets of cash, exactly. We're ready. We're here for the...
chords we're good to go so yeah somehow some ac10s
get bought i don't know a couple of groundhog no
problem we're opening the straights yeah we'll bring in the
davos girls it's gonna be for so much fun. We're
going to get Spurlock high. I mean, it's going to
be great. Mike, your name is going to be on
Wikipedia as one of the members of the Adam Accords
that opened up the Straits of Podcasting. There you go.
All right, gentlemen. Thank you so much. This has been
one of the more enjoyable episodes. Mike, thank you for
contributing. Loved it very much. Boardroom went silent. They basically
went, uh, whoa, what? They're like, these guys are off
the rails. They just left. They were confused, I'm sure.
Yeah, very much so. All right, everybody, we'll be back
next week to bring you another board meeting where the
Fun is always to be had right here on Podcasting
2.0. See you then, everybody. Bye-bye. You have been listening
to Podcasting 2.0. Visit podcastindex.org for more information. Go podcasting!
is actually Pain in the butt.