2.0 for March 5 2021, Episode 27 certifying the universe it's
that time once again when Friday feels like a Saturday there is
nothing but goodness Friday's for me Why? Because it's time
once again for the free open source board meeting of
podcasting 2.0 podcast index.org I'm out of curry in Austin,
Texas and in Alabama ladies. He's the OG Dev
named Dave, my
friend on the other end.
You really know how to sell it is an open source board meeting.
Well, it is,
but it's free. Exactly. It's
free and open source. Yeah.
Yeah, who wouldn't want to attend that?
Yeah. Free. Oh, it's like it's like clubhouse for podcasting.
Only you don't get to talk.
No stage for you.
Oh, man, I was talking to my sister Willow.
In Italy. Yeah,
she's, yeah, she lives in Florence. And she is currently
doing her master's for cyber psychology.
I burst calm.
Yeah, it's, yeah. She's a real degree. So of course, it
includes actual psychology. And so she's learning a lot of
stuff. And it does also include some things about DNA. So we
were chatting about vaccines and you know, stuff like that. And,
boy, if I only remember what I was coming back to.
Yes, I bet some of us cyberpsychology Yeah.
Shoot, man. I don't remember the whole wrapping my head. It just
flew out the window.
Okay. It'll save you I've got I'm currently drinking out of
my. Oh, yes. Which you doxed me for? Yeah. This. This is the I
just posted a picture of it to the mastodon. It is the not the
regular pot friend mug. But the psychopath friend mug.
I just saw that picture. I'm gonna have to put it in the show
notes. It is. It's hilarious.
This is this is not pod friend. This is your very best pod.
pod friend on drugs, baby.
That is he really really wants to be your best friend. As a
matter of fact, he takes he will not take no for an answer.
I'll have drug put it in. While I'm sure he's hearing us now put
it in the chapter image. My favorite
part of this My favorite part of this image is that psycho pod
friends tongue is upside down. Which I didn't notice and
totally yeah.
Oh, yeah. It's totally it's complete. It's complete. I
didn't know that. He was gonna send you the mug with that image
on it. Man. I want one of those. That's a collector's item. That
thing is fantastic.
archive is the archive quality right here. You know, this.
There's this book was Stephen King's Dark Tower series.
There's this part in that book where he, where one of the main
character says that he was looking at this children's book
with a with a train on the cover. And the train is like
it's like this kid's train. It has a face on it. You know? Yes.
You said like, Thomas the Tank Engine.
mcboatface. Yeah,
yeah. But I mean, there's, there's kids like hanging out of
the railway cars like, like having fun. They look like
they're having a great time. And he said, the longer he looked at
it. He's like, the more I looked at it, the more I realized that
they weren't having fun. They were actually terrified. And the
train was a psycho. It's like, the more the luck, though. And
they were they were screaming for help wanting to jump out. So
like, that's my thing with them. The longer you look at it, the
more psycho it gets.
He was beautiful. Now, I remember what I was talking
about with Willow about thanks for covering about clubhouse.
And how what is what she believes is taking place. And
actually we were talking more about how kancil culture fits
into cyber addiction, which she may even write her thesis about.
Yeah, I
want to read that.
Yeah, well, she wants to get back to me after she's done with
her masters, which one she's near the end. So I was going to
interview her. But we were talking about how difficult
conversation is for people when they're not in a control when
that can't control the conversation. She says look,
social media, text messaging, all this stuff. You control the
conversation. You don't have to answer right away, you have time
to think you know, there's this mirroring that you can do by
just sending an emoji that will automatically make for someone
feel happy putting context in it, but she said there's so much
that you just don't have with text and said facemask another
huge problem because you really can't read something ones
emotion you are, you're missing 70% of the information of
communication between human beings and clubhouse is in
effect, not a podcasting experience. It is a social media
experience with the added dimension that we subconsciously
have been missing, namely that of speech and speech inflection.
So it's much as a much richer experience, and people are just
craving this, and also to show off their skills of immediate
reactionary conversation. So not something you get to think about
before you reply to the tweet or the text message. But you have
it's like debating skills, you know, stuff we used to learn in
school is now kind of, I think it's maybe people don't do that
anymore.
I think I think kids are terrified of it. Kids have grown
up. Now I see it with my own kids. I grew up with text
messaging. And so they've always had this ability to have a slow,
methodical conversation where they have plenty of time to
think exactly, man, when you throw a young person into an
actual conversation, like put them on a phone call, or
impersonal they
they flip out, freeze, they freeze.
Yeah. Because they're afraid they're gonna make a mistake and
look like an idiot, or worse.
They're so over socialized, they're afraid they're going to
make a mistake. While they did not intend to, will hurt the
other person's feelings.
Oh, yes, yes. True. Yeah. Yeah. Which is probably you know,
which actually may be a self fulfilling prophecy, because
they're expecting to have to accidentally hurt the other
person's feelings. The other person is probably expecting you
to hurt their feelings. Yep. At the same time, because they had
that same fear in reverse. It's,
it's so sick.
Willow can just listen to this show. We just pretty much crack
that egg.
Well, then I'll just on the canceled culture thing. She's
really interesting. This was my idea. But she said, Oh, my God,
this fits so perfectly. What I'm what I'm studying right now.
Because there's multiple kinds of addiction. One is compulsive.
You know, there's there's many different versions of this
online. But it's gotten to a point where people are afraid to
speak their mind. Because if they offend, they will get
cancelled. And what happens is their drug goes away. This
isn't, you know, this social media in particular, but also
text messaging with friends. It is it is drugs. I mean, this has
been proven it triggers the same stuff as cocaine in your brain.
Yeah. And so people are so afraid of losing that, that they
are very careful. Because they're really attics
that wow, that
that's what Willow said. She went Yes, yes, my thesis.
That is genius, actually. Now wouldn't expect them to get into
this this fast. But I did have some clips on that. Okay, let's
see what it I mean, you want to do some free fits free speech
stuff, like
it's a board meeting, you have the floor, you have the speaking
stick.
I want to take a point of personal privilege, yes, in
order to please do play disinformation, one algorithms.
And what that means in really simple terms, is people are
getting less information from person to person interactions,
organic interactions, and they're getting more information
kind of filtered through algorithms through these social
media platforms. And what we know about that, is these
algorithms are known to make people more polarized. And
they're, they're, they're known to make people more prone to
believing conspiracy theories.
Okay, yeah. Sounds like some good drugs to me, baby.
It's the algorithms. idea. And so like there's this, there's
this notion within podcasting, that of that of you hear all the
time, about discoverability.
Yeah, term. Yeah.
And I used to think that that I was in that mindset, too, that
the discoverability was a problem that had to be solved,
but I don't think it is anymore. I mean, sure. You want to be
able to find things when you go looking for it. But the idea
that you're going to somehow use an algorithm to surface the
content surface podcasts that you wouldn't otherwise be able
to find, I think is always going to just like out algos, all the
algos are ultimately going to lead you to that in which is
you're being manipulated in some way by the algorithm.
Totally.
So, you know you have I was reading Ben Ben Thompson's piece
on on clubhouse He says, Let's see the key for clubhouse will
be owning its algorithms, honing its algorithms, so that every
time the listener opens the app, they're presented with a
conversation that's interesting to them. This is the other area
where podcasts missed the mark. It is amazing to have so much
choice but all too often that choice is paralyzing. Sometimes,
a lot of times, users just want to scroll their Twitter feed
instead of reading a long blog post, or click through the
stories or sweat tic tocs. And clubhouse is poised to provide
the same, quote, mindless escapism for background audio.
Hmm,
yes. See,
I think that is that would be very damaging to pod to the
world of podcasting to have a system like that course,
of course. And it's, you know, besides the obvious reasons of
hosting companies, not enabling enough space to do video for
many different reasons. But cos YouTube has, its, you know,
YouTube is not podcasting. YouTube is an algorithm that is
continuously showing you things that you should be watching
next, and people go down the rabbit hole, just follow that
trail row, click on this, click on that. And it's drugs. It's
it's some it's useful, no doubt. But it's all kind of
entertainment. It's not. It's harmful. And and you see this
with the mastodon, you know, there's multiple times per day,
usually in the evening. Well check it out, like, Oh, crap,
there's nothing new. There's nothing there's not a single new
post. And then I also think, cuz that's refreshing.
Yeah, it's nice.
I'm up to speed. I know. Okay, good. Now I can go do something
else. It's a very nice feeling. And it's really, and well, since
we're on this trip anyway, Wikipedia co founder Larry
Sanger heard, I've never heard that name. No, neither I but I
guess he had he, I think he left 20 years ago. I mean, he, he
didn't like the way it was going. He was more of a
decentralized guy. And of course, he saw how it was now
what was taking place. And now it's all locked down, you got to
have the secret handshake and all kinds of weird stuff. So so.
So listen to this. Sanger, who parted ways with Wikipedia
almost two decades ago over the project's direction is now
working on developing technical standards that could strip power
over social media from giant companies and give users more
control over the content they produce and see, concerns over
the power of social media platforms have emerged across
the political spectrum in recent years. So blah, blah, blah,
quote, what needs to exist is a system that just makes it really
easy for the average user to push out their social media
content from a place that they own, like a blog, and then make
it available on all these different platforms. So it
doesn't matter which platform you use saying, or the times on
a phone call. So this place is the locus of control back in the
hands of the average person, the end user, Oh, Oh, if only there
were a if there were only there were a protocol. That was only
there was something that was easy to remember, like three
letters.
s s,
it's everything old is new again.
But listen to this while he envisions this, this Captain
Obvious of the future. What he envisions is a tool such as a
browser plugin, that would aggregate content from all the
accounts the user follows across the myriad of platforms. Ladies
and gentlemen, that is pure genius. The trick is the trick
is the microblogging systems never heard that word before. I
hope he coined it would have a standardized protocol that would
allow a single plugin to translate the content into the
various formats suitable for different social media
platforms. How much?
How much VC money is he getting for this? Because that is a
question. So just every, every 20 years, just reinvent,
reinvent RSS and slap, slap some VC money on it, and you're good.
And this is what I've come to realize that when you truly have
something decentralized, it has certain properties and how how
it behaves. Bitcoin is the best example. And you know it to a
degree it's self healing, you know, it's it's a community,
they make things go or they don't make things go. And I
think after 1011 years, it's time to say that's pretty solid.
Get podcasting, you know, now 1617 or some would say 21 years.
35 135 years
has displayed similar properties and you're seeing these, these
efforts to to capture everything, and they're just not
happening and Gosh, I was listening to pod land talking to
some new hosting company who was invented text speech to text. Oh
my God is going to be great and and I appreciate critical and he
said, so you're going to integrate with the podcasting
2.0 with the pockets index namespace in the guys answers a
class should have clipped it actually is classic, like, well,
we believe in open. But this is really an end to end experience
and like, Oh my God, he's reinventing transcripts and
searching those like, wow, and he just raised a bunch of money
for it. Well, by the way, a quick programming note to our
buzzsprout friends, the pod land podcast, James and Sam, they
they started off with, I think, a geo targeted automatic
insertion. You know, so it was kind of like, hey, here we are
in the on the, you know, in the United States with our special
message. And they said, we're just testing this out. The
problem is that through the transcript out of sync,
Oh, okay.
Now and i and i remember this being discussed on the mastodon,
so it was a full 30 seconds out of sync throughout the show as
an offset. So for buzzsprout, I would say possibly, if someone's
using your dynamic insertion tool, maybe you rewrite the SRT
file.
I bet that's a bug because I think Tom, I think Tom said that
was the that was the intent.
Okay, all right. Okay, good.
Yeah, that's gotta be a bug he needs once then once again,
I've I've broken it.
Yeah, that by the way, on that note, the mat the guys on the
mastodon. I just wanted to say this are like, expert ninja
level bug reporters.
Notice that and they know how to report to.
Yes, that's the good like, phone boy. Andy layman, Alex gates,
john Spurlock all all those guys. Like they they notice a
bug and they, they explain expertly explain it and give you
exactly what you need. And they do. But here's the most critical
part of good bug reporting is you, you follow up, you give the
developer enough time to a reasonable amount of time to fix
it, right. And then you circle back around and say, Hey, just
let me know this is still a problem. Because programmers get
busy. And everybody gets busy and you you forget about
especially on a medium like mastodon where things can roll
off. So they come back around, they're like, hey, just a heads
up. Man, that is so freakin valuable. And it's not
bothersome. It's not like you're bothering me or anybody else.
When you do that. It's super helpful. It's interesting,
because I'm the intermediary with Tina, who has really
committed herself to pod friends. Please just pick one.
And please,
I need your help. You know, I need to know if this shit is
working for you. Because Tina, she's incredibly smart is great
with marketing. One thing we know if she says that she
doesn't understand why something exists. It'll be very
successful. Case in point, ATMs. Why would anyone want to use the
machine to get money? cell phones? Why would you want to
have a phone in your pocket? And this is, you know, this. We know
now it's like, if she really thinks it's it's questionable,
then we got to pay attention to it. So she she finds bugs and
things that I haven't found. And she'll say, Okay, well, this
thing and you know, the display is still only moving up halfway,
and it obfuscates this and, and then they'll tell Martin, and
then she'll appear in front of me. And you know, six hours
later, like this display thing is still broken. Like, yeah, so
I delay it. I'm like, it'll be a couple days. I'll follow up in a
few days. But yeah, it's a
I'm not a believer in that whole idea of like, there's some
people that are real Nazi about. You have to you have to format
it this way, where it's like, here's what I expected to
happen. Here's what did happen. Here's blah, blah, blah. Don't
completely unnecessary
if you speak the same language, and I could speak most of the
language of, of what we're developing. Although I try not
to make guesses.
But one thing that one thing that irritates me about that
format, is that here's what I you know, it's like, what, what
here's what I'm here's what did happen, and here's what I
expect. Like, you're you're describing the same thing twice.
It's Yeah, exactly. Yes, yes.
90% of the time in the what I expected to happen thing, I end
up just saying, like, you know, what's the point it's, here's
what I did. Here's what I expected to happen. Here's what
did happen. When I say what I did. When I get to the years
what I expected to happen. I just said I expected it to work.
I expected it not to do what it did. I mean, like, I'm not sure
what else to tell you here.
Just just to get back to where we were with decentralization,
this renewed discovery of RSS. You know, which, if we had to go
back and count all the RSS is dead articles, you know, we and
we get $1. For each one, we'd be pretty rich. In combination with
the D, platforming and cancel culture, the world is moving
away from the centralized systems. And, you know, I'm a
broken record on this. But once it's really just education, and
once people understand that, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube,
Google, Instagram, that that is not the internet and and when
they are rejecting your content, or it's not to your liking it,
just consider it a bug route around it. And boom, there's the
mastodons and most valuable website I go to every single
day. You know, no one controls that. But us. We collectively
control what goes on there. And we don't do anything. And it
seems to work out just fine. And there's no algorithm. So people
are are going to start searching for these alternatives and your
blog post, which got some real good traction, about the value
for value model in podcasting. You You explained it expertly.
There has to be an alternative, not a You're a very good writer,
Dave Jones. I'll say it again.
Thanks. Damn,
yeah. Are you like a great lover too? Because that's really gonna
piss me off. You got? You got the whole package?
Now? I'm really bad at that. I'm really bad at the I think the
most important thing in that blog post, I think maybe was
that. And I'm not it wasn't explicitly stated what it was
there's a marriage between the sort of mission one and mission
two, they're not just two, they're not just two roles.
Exactly. It's two, it's Yeah, they're connected. They are
connected? Because you can't the goal overall, is, is free
freedom period for you. Yes. And, and freedom and ownership
of, of your content. And in order to have true freedom and
ownership of your content. You have to be I have to have a way
to be independently rewarded for it and independently, an
independent owner of the infrastructure that delivers it,
yes, you can't have you can't have that you're not you're
never gonna get to the end goal. Unless you have both of those
things tied together. You're only halfway there if you just
do one of them.
Exactly, exactly.
But I think that the advertising part is really not. I mean, yet,
you know, tried to make the point that advertiser, the
advertising model is already bad. It's already dominant.
Like, is this what I mean? is like, there's so many ads in
podcasting, as
well. So if I can just interject, cuz I'm not Yeah, I
guess we're not anti advertising. In fact, if there
were no advertising, it'd be very sad. I wouldn't, I wouldn't
know what to get even if I didn't need it. I mean, that
that's a part of modern life, and I enjoy that. But the two
aren't mutually exclusive. You can I mean, we, in essence,
advertise on a complete 100% value for value podcast, and no
agenda show. we advertise shit all the time. But it's because
we mean it. You know, I don't get paid for talking about
lavender blossoms, or, you know, some winery or whatever it is
that advertising. Yeah, in a way it is, of course, we get free
product, but we're just not we just say it like, Oh, this is
great. If it's a ship product, we'll say well, no, we don't
talk about it. And people send in notes, and they advertise
something that they're doing. It's a form of advertising. But
it's not a programmatic. It's very direct, you know, it's like
the actual producer of the product is telling me about it.
And I'm telling the actual consumer, there's no exchange,
auction, split second determining of what fits best
scanning of your profile, there's a whole machine that
goes on in the background just to present you with an ad.
C and that's what happens when you get into what we were
talking about just a minute ago with with the algos and the
because that's what the point is. The point of those
algorithms is not to Okay, yes, part of it is to give you a
quote unquote a better experience. But the large
majority of of that is to drive your attention towards an
advertisement. Exactly.
That's or or drive you away from a potential advertiser that you
don't want to piss off. I think that's also in play.
Yeah, true.
Let's move this type of user over here. So that person could
never accidentally comment on this thread, where we have this
ad running, I'm sure that's in there's got to be I've run these
kinds of companies.
What you know, and what I was trying to say in this post was
that we're not even at a billion dollars yet. No. And so we're,
we're not even at a billion. And the advertising dominant model,
the only, the only option it has in order to get more revenue out
out of the out of this thing is to put more ads in, right, but
you in so let's just say, let's take the upper end of that,
let's say that you have the debt number of 2.8 million podcasts
out there, which is the highest number I've seen. Let's just say
that is legit. Okay. I mean, the number of podcasts that actually
have ads in it is nowhere near that. I mean, you're talking to,
I don't know, how many of the total podcasts have ads in it,
but it's probably, you know, 10% of that or less, yeah, so you're
gonna take 10% of the total market and cram more ads in it,
because those are the only podcasts that actually have
enough audience. Well, there's no twist, you're gonna get more
ads, and same amount of podcast and the end, the next issue is
just in general, for companies trying to capture these
audiences and contain them inside a wall, the opposite of
freedom, where they determine what your choices Spotify, and I
forget, I should look up the name of that other host, hosting
company.
They're actually going to have a hard time because the biggest
podcasts are big because they're available universally. You know,
there are a lot of people, then I always noticed this, we had a
problem with no agenda show dotnet our main website, there's
a beautiful website, and there's some confusion about it, or
something not updating. And actually Tim who's been doing
he's been working on community chapters, community community
across the board stuff for for podcasting. 2.0. He's a
brilliant guy. And so there's a miscommunication. I think I
missed an email about how to log in to fix something anyway. I
think is bad today.
You're just losing it.
I am. I was building up to this. I took the B 12. What was it?
What
the fuck was I answering? is we're talking about cramming
more ads into the same amount of podcast space. And you said,
Yes. Oh my God, I've got to do something about this. So what I
learned is because there wasn't updating for five days, the most
recent episode hadn't gone up. A lot of people listen to the show
right there on the website, a lot. Not a hell of a lot. Go
look at the no agenda, social calm to see how many people were
stressed out by it. I never looked at your website just like
yes, it updates automatically, you know, but yeah, and I have
to say Tina is also a web listener. She just sees a link
clicks on something and whether it's a YouTube doesn't use a
YouTube actual to do YouTube, but she's not. She's doing
podcasts now. And I think what she likes the most is the
organizational part. Yeah, no, and a lot of people don't really
have experience. With podcast apps. It's always surprising to
me.
Yeah, I never listen to anything on the web. Really? Unless I'm
trying to get a clip. You know? Yeah. And that just feels feels
wrong. To sit there, like search through a website and find an
audio file and play it.
What I saw emails from people who said, Oh, my God, are you
okay? Did you not have you couldn't do a show during this?
No. COVID in Texas? No, no. Yeah, they've completely missed
it because it hadn't updated on the website.
Oh, that's so weird.
Well, yeah, this is stuff that you don't think about, but you
only learn when, you know, when you when it happens. You want
anything in these two other disinformation clips?
Well, yes, played out play, I think, because I may need to
make a larger point play, to play to basically the underlying
system that Trump used, posting things that were false posting
things that make people either angry or upset to make them
engage with the content. All that is basically still
happening, the system still in place just waiting to be used by
other people. Here's john Donovan, a disinformation
researcher I talked to from Harvard University,
we are in serious trouble. Just information has become an
industry which means the financial incentives and the
political gains are now aligned and we will see more of this.
See more of this Unless we do what what's the path out of
this?
Free dog?
So I disagree with her. I disagree with her with her
premise that like, you know, the the monetary the financial gain
and the political gain are aligned. Man, that's all that's
always been the case. But the so what do you think is the answer
to this? He said, Okay, so how do we get how do we get out of
this? Well, by the way, which was funny, he said, you know,
the the stuff that that Trump used the disinformation tactics
that he used in social media, they're still there, and the
algorithms are still in place. Waiting, waiting, waiting for
the next evil dictator
to jump in hit.
What are you talking about? Waiting? It's already been used.
So okay, what they're sitting there idle,
you know, not doing anything.
Right. So the question is, what dipshit answer will come. Is
that what clip three is,
yet? Well, I already listened to clip right. And I
know how it will pose the question. Wait, hold on a
second. Let
me let me out. This is now a challenge I have right now I
gotta listen to to basically, the underlying system that Trump
used, posting things that were false posting things that make
people either angry or upset to make them engage with the
content, all that is basically still happening, the system
still in place just waiting to be used by other people. Here's
john Donovan, a disinformation researcher I talked to from
Harvard University,
we are in serious trouble. Just information has become an
industry which means the financial incentives and the
political gains are now aligned. And we will see more of this.
See more of this unless we do what what's the path out of
this?
Okay. Well, I'm sure we need much tighter moderation and we
need anonymity to be removed. And is that a good start?
You get in there, but that that's, it's even worse than
that.
I got to do the reveal. There we go.
I don't want to be too bleak, Ari, but we're probably talking
about something that's a generation or two from being
resolved according to people I talked to over the last couple
weeks. Whitney Phillips, a Syracuse researcher who just
released a book on all this stuff told me it might take 15
years to resolve this. Basically she says a redesign of the
entire internet information just spread easily right now. I have
to read you have to rebuild the entire
Oh my goodness. She works at Syracuse if your kids go there
pull them out
that's the only way to fix it. You got to rebuild the entire
internet information
flows to freely Wow Wow. That is that is the essence of the
internet. Information wants to be free. There are no secrets
only information you don't yet have the kidding me. That's the
world redesign the internet. One Direction only.
redesign the internet is code for for rebuild, like come up
with RSS all over again.
Yeah. Good luck with that. Oh,
oh, I bet I did get a good ISO out of it. I saw one
almost second.
We are in serious trouble.
Yeah. Yes, we are. Yes, ma'am.
We're in serious trouble. Well,
not not at podcasting. 2.0 we're not in serious trouble.
No, we're in serious good spirits over here.
Just tacking on to your your post, which is titled opening up
the value of podcasting. It's in the show notes. If you can find
it blog dot podcast index.org. I was listening to a journalist
interpretation of the value for value in the journalist was
thought it was an unfair system. And we actually touched on this
in the last episode, that shorter shows we get
shortchanged. And and I thought to myself, Well, okay, so we
need to re explain the value for value model, and the way it will
be integrated. And I think the breeze podcast app that's coming
we've seen some screenshots of some stuff. They've got the
boost amount and the per minute streaming SATs displayed right
on the front. And the whole idea is, is that you can it's
actually it's analogous to in Bitcoin people talk about time
preference, time value preference, like How high do you
value your time versus what you expect on return. If you just
leave if you put your turn your feet, your cup bucks into
bitcoin, but in a way, it's kind of the same a bit in reverse If
you really, really enjoy the content, you are going to
gravitate automatically towards giving more per minute or, or
multiple boosts. And this is the value, the listener controls all
of that feedback, it just isn't quite apparent yet in our one
implementation on Sphinx, but I was I was thinking about this, I
thought, you know, this is the one place we we kind of do need
an algorithm. And, and it would do multiple things in my mind.
One is, we need to show value for the old world, we need to
have a toggle, or show dollar amount, or euro amount, or
whatever it is, underneath the satoshis is very hard for you,
if you've been in it for a while. He's like, around 50,000.
So 2000 satoshis is $1. But even it gets confusing for everybody
and I enjoy a wallet, that'll show me both one will be bigger
than the other. So you can kind of see that too. I think a value
calculator may be handy. Like your your you will be supporting
this show, if you listen to the whole thing with you know, $10
or $3, or $1, whatever it is. So So and like that, and and some
things that can prompt you that say, Hey, this is a much shorter
show, you're, you're at 10 satoshis per minute, is it time
to re evaluate how much you value this show. Now, on the
other hand, some shows that are five minutes are daily,
collectively, it's a much longer show. I mean, so I guess the
point I'm trying to get to is, let's not get hung up on the on
the time. But you know, most apps are not even spitting out
per minute because it makes more sense to, to aggregate it and
send them one payment, there's less network fees, etc. But the
concept is really the time you spend but how much you value
that and that I think is the point that is hard to get
across. Because people have so little value for the
monetization systems in media today. It's like one ad I don't
give a shit. Like it's just an annoyance that has to be there.
You know, whereas I'm like, isn't it? If I listened to Tales
from the Crypt, I love Marty bent. And I remember when we
were first starting out like what is this crazy nutjob over
there with tfcc he's done some paywall podcast, like, ever, but
now I'm hooked Who? And, and but he starts off it's between three
and five minutes of ads. Now I've heard most of them, they
change. And there's some interesting services. But I do
find myself bopping through, you know? Yeah. And and so I'm glad
that but he has and he's he's all over Sphynx chats. I wonder
how many people listen to how that's doing for him.
I think that's pretty big. That
podcast is a huge audience. I just don't know how many. How
many are on chat.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I get the impression that quite a
few. Yeah. And because you know, you've always got lurkers that
are not active. But wait a minute.
Can I not see who the members are? If I tap on the tribe? And
I don't know, can you? If you can, that'd be neat. Well, I
know you can do it. If you own the tribe. I don't know if you
can do it. I don't
know. I don't think you can No,
no, no, no, no.
No. So, you know, by the way, listening to Cridland explain
this. Explain what value the value tag and how it works is
quite entertaining. Yeah.
Well, and that was that was you know, he doesn't believe Bitcoin
is real, which is fine. But
it says blockchain six times in a row Satoshi Nakamoto appears.
And
by the way, I FPS is not blockchain. Yeah. It Yeah. Yeah.
If you read a little bit further down the Wikipedia entry, you'll
see what it means.
But, but I think the, you know, like, that is a great idea.
Because it takes there's a bunch of different UI concepts there
that you could do to enhance this. Like, once you get those
juices flowing like you what you're just saying, if you have
value in like, you know, Fiat, is sitting there next to an
episode, it's like, well, if right into this episode, this is
what it's gonna cost. Yeah. But it's really not gonna I mean,
you could listen to it for free, but it's like, it's more like,
here's how much you're gonna donate to this. Yes, you're
constantly changing. Like,
here's the value, we just a value. Here's the value you're
sending back. Here's how, here's how much you value that here's
how much you valued. This podcast so far is another great
one. What have I done so far for this podcast? You know, and why
not have some statistics like, what have I boosted the most I
mean, there's a lot of different things that you can see you
know, for your own behavior, and your own control over over how
you spend your your time. And your value. There's so many cool
things that we can do.
Yeah, what about this, as you're listening to the podcast to that
show that episode, there's an UP DOWN ARROW when you can just on
the right there on the screen, it's like, oh, I need to, like
use that you're moving your slider up as the you know, as
your, you're like, Man, this is such a good episode, and you can
boost or you can just dismiss raise your permitted amount,
I think you and I've learned so over the decade or so that very
often things that are set a certain way, and this is how
it's done. In this case, paying for something is always
obfuscated, where many times if you reverse whatever has been
hidden under the layers for decades, and you pop it to the
front. It's exciting. Yeah. So you have this the value slider
and all this stuff, which is hidden inside Sphinx chat
preferences. You know, I see it on the on the breeze demo, like,
Oh, that makes so much sense. I can change it right there on the
fly while I'm listening. You know? And, yes, anyway, also,
well, you know, I missed pod dad in pod station last night when I
was testing the Ellen pay stuff, or for Andy. I was I was
listening to pot station. And I was sitting there listening,
watching. I'm watching my Elon pay wallet and everything's
moving. SATs are flowing. I'm like, cool. And then and I like
just had this instinct to reach out and do a boost. And then
there's,
there's no yeah, I felt I know. It's totally addictive. Speaking
of. Oh, yeah. boosting Oh my god, it feels so good when you
do it. But
boosting is it boosting is the current. It's this is stupid,
cuz it's all about currency. But this thing quickly becomes the
currency of this whole thing. It's, it's a social feeding
mechanism. Where because like if you go on Spanx, you can just
drop into a tribe on there and see it is what you see is a
bunch of back and forth boosting Yeah, a lot of trash don't even
have much actual chat going on in there. They just have this
weird back and forth, train of boost things. And everybody just
kind of knows what it means.
I know I was in Tales from the Crypt and I boosted my 404 SATs.
And about 30 minutes later I get a notification. Marty's boosted
a toe eight on the on the weekend. They
doubled up but
yeah, it's it's really it. I like your toss and 50 cents
around. You know, it's it's not much when it's a couple of bros
hanging out. But when you got 1000 people started to get
pretty interesting.
Yeah. See, that's the thing is is, you know, the Fiat would be
nice to see. But I don't I don't really even think about that
this goes back to well, we have an education path. Remember,
we've got people who don't even use podcast apps, they use the
web browser. And when I hear someone struggling, even with
the name, it's satoshis, not satoshis. Yeah, because that's
kind of a, you know, just anglicization this is wrong. You
know, and people don't understand the value. It would
be handy to have that there. I think this has been proven in
wallets for many years that people do want to have that
quick conversion, at least within reach.
Yeah, but it goes back to grit to Gresham's law, that idea that
bad money drives out good. So you know, you expect you would
expect, and this is what you pick up from the from the sort
of culture around Bitcoin and the news and that kind of thing.
And you would expect that people with Bitcoin are stingy, they
don't want to spend it, because they consider this to be good
quality. This is quality money, versus Fiat paper money, which
is like, you know, the garbage Well,
it's an extension of the entire value system. The fact that you
have Bitcoin means you already if you have it today, before all
this you understand value. And what what's what spending that
today could mean two years from now. So yes, and I think most
bitcoiners are very philanthropic actually.
See, that's what I'm getting at. Because you have that whole I
didn't get your Did you don't want to spend your good quality
money. But once you get into an ecosystem where, where that's
where everybody is spending in that currency that Gresham's law
falls away, and it doesn't apply anymore, right. So now, now,
people are free to throw their throwing SATs around all over
the place, because it's not because they they just don't
want to train them out for a bus for, you know, for Fiat. But as
long as everything's in the system, like keeping it down
home cars type of thing. That's things change, like the whole
dynamic changes, I guess. And so you, I feel a whole lot freer
to, you know, I don't even think about how much it cost, you
know, I mean, if I see if I see a six digit sad, I mean, of
course, I'm gonna be like, Well, wait, let me think about this.
But I mean, you know, somebody, I'll boost somebody 1000 status,
it doesn't bother me. I mean, I mean, it may should maybe it
should bother me. I don't even know how much I spent on
podcasts the last month, but I don't think about it anymore, I
guess is what I'm trying to say.
Yeah. And I'm with you. I mean, I put 100 bucks into my voltage
podcaster node, which I just go atoms podcaster podcast wallets
as incoming and outgoing. And I never look at it. I mean, I only
look at what's come in just to see trends, etc. And I've spent
time I don't know, I mean, all that if there's, if there's a
podcast I can listen to on either pod station or on Sphinx,
I'll do it. And that that's my thing is like, I listened to
everything on pod friend, but then I've shit man. If I'm gonna
listen to Cridland, then I'm going to listen to Sphinx. I'm
going to listen to orange pill. I'm going to listen in. In
Sphinx or, actually pod station, because I usually open the
studio. Just to moan about Elon pay. So this is big news.
Because Tim over there at Elon pay. He's now enabled. Key send
receive on your Elon pay wallet, correct?
Yeah, we tested it last night. So we're, we're just fine.
How does this work? And how does it work in regard to some extra
parameters that need to be in the feed? Is that something
that's in the database? How does all that work? Oh, yeah,
we want to do some namespace stuff. Well, technically
namespace.
Okay, now it's time for some hot name states on attractive when
you
beg for a Dave Jones.
I'm not ashamed. Another shame a better
name, Jennifer. See? Yeah, so Ellen pay has inbounds Kissin,
but it needs it needs a route around around route parameter.
Yeah. And so the parameter is key value, key value pair. And
it's a it's something that goes into the to the lightning
transaction. So the way Tim's Tim's is, it's got a key as
696969. And then the value is the wallet address. And so you
put that into the new custom key and custom value parameters that
go in the value recipient tag. And that can act as a routing
hint that will let the receiving end know how to get to that if
they're using something like Tim is with like a virtual wallet
system.
So we're poked, so we're pulling that out of the index, then,
yeah, put that into the index the other day, it was not in
there. I had written up the spec before I implemented it in the
back. Okay, but but now it is in there. So that's what we were
testing last night.
It is my belief, I think, and I don't know. And this is a
question for Tim or anybody. I know that I've had an Ellen
bits, wallet, I could connect from an app to my Ellen bits
wallet. Would it technically be possible for me to connect to my
Ellen pay wallet with an app as well?
For instance, like zap,
zap? I think I'm gonna look at it right now. Zap. I have shits
messed up now.
Here we go.
Yeah, I think this is an Elon. Well, I thought I had an Elon
bits. wallet somewhere. Maybe it was, hey, you may know Elon
bits. That's why Elon bits is very similar, similar structure
with a, you know, one node, virtual addresses. Touch just
wondering if, okay, if we can, I mean, it's so beautiful. It's
such a beautiful solution. I mean, it's not you know, it's
you don't have custody of everything you should but just
to get up and started. It's really great if we can if we can
set that up and also for like, I set up. Neal Jones the clip
custodian for no agenda, thank you actually put his his note in
the value block for no agenda. And but I set him up on Spanx.
But you know, which, you know, there's easier ways to get
someone set up to receive key send payments, if they're, no,
maybe they don't need a whole big node solution. They just
want to receive stuff and be able to send it somewhere else
or do something with it.
Did that work for him? Is he getting set? Yeah,
yeah. He said he already had 250 I think last night, he sent me a
message. So it was it was working. I love that. Yeah. So
but Ellen pay, could that also be integrated into podcaster?
wallet.com.
Yeah, yeah. I don't see why. It would just be another
integration just like we do with voltages. Thanks.
Okay, do we need to talk to Tim about that?
Yeah, now that we get to now that we have that key in there,
we do it. And it's a it's a key value pair that also Sphynx
needed anyway, because they're doing Private Channel
doing that, too. Yeah.
So that that thing had to be in there. So that's it should be
good to go. Now on the on the index side.
Ryan Gentry who loves hearing his name on this show. By the
way, thanks for the Twitter love. Brian. He tweeted your
your article. Oh,
yeah, I appreciated that. Yeah.
If he is getting me in touch with the Emerald, guys.
I don't know anything that's like, basically a competitor to
raspy Blitz, right?
He says, Do you want to chat with the Emerald guys, I know
you're on the raspy Blitz, but they're shooting for a bit more
noob friendly version, maybe more palatable for the broader
podcaster ecosystem. And, of course, we want everybody in
whatever I want every single node type provider on podcast or
wallet calm and be great if we can show benefits, whatever. I
know that would make sense should probably talk about this.
Since we're in that realm. Brees has put together a little,
little mini JSON thing that they're going to send along with
every key send for statistics.
Oh, really? I didn't know that. That.
You didn't get the email.
You did? No.
You didn't read the email, man. You're on drugs. Oh, okay. Yeah,
no. Oh, gee, that's interesting. Because I think it's probably
something we should let everybody know about. Let me
just see where I have. I guess
I just totally missed that. No,
that's okay. Here it is. I think I've got it.
Right. Not this one.
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, we're like a blur. Yeah, no,
I know. I know. I
know. I know. Jeez, I'm not quite sure where this was now
off to go. Wait means it.
Didn't his last response to this?
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Let me just see, Roy.
Let you know, though, here we go.
Here we go. Here it is. Here it is, here it is. So this is
something that they're working on implementing this send custom
podcast related metadata on each payment that looks like this for
analytics. And there's and I recognize the JSON brackets. So
I know what's going on here. The tags are podcast title, Episode,
title action, with a option between stream or boost, and
then action time. Neat. And that he is setting up with I think
voltage so that they can provide a little dashboard, where you
have some stats, how cool is that man? And so I'm looking at
that I'm saying, well, we need to expand that. I mean, there's
more stuff in there. I mean, I would love to be able to add my
name or my alias, they just payments from Adam. Yeah, you
know, and stuff like that little message, whatever. And by the
way, none of that is free. You know, eventually you get these
sizes big and more routing comes through is all kinds of
interesting things that take place, but I love it. This to me
is makes so much sense. You know, immediately you're giving
people some some statistics and a way to look at what's going
on.
That solves the problem of not knowing who it comes from, to,
you know if you can add that data and add it in. Yeah,
so that's so you take a look at that email again.
Here's what I would love. Okay, here's what i would love on the
boost side. I would love to have on a mobile app. I would love to
be able to long press the boost button and have a customizable
amount. Nice. So you can
long press and then slide up or down.
Yeah, exactly. Long press it pops up a dialog and you can
just you can get it so easy. So say I want to give a one time I
want to give a one time 10 10,000 said right drop on
this thing. But yeah. namespace stuff. Did you see that? cup to
two things. captivate added? Yes,
yes. They added what they add transcripts.
Yeah, transcripts. And that's their first add. We're gonna
have them on the show in April.
Yes, I saw that. Nice. Nice, nice. Yes, this is good.
Congratulations. And go ahead.
Yeah, and also blueberry. they've released the beta for
their powerpress plugin that has all the tags in it,
all of them.
I think it's got the first phase. I don't remember. Let me
see if I can look and see Man, I just got
a guy just got to get the WordPress thing and just make my
own feet. I'm getting frustrated.
Well, let's see. Let me look. Here's Mike's message to me that
says they got locked transcript chapters funding location to
start with is what he said. He said more coming. Nice a lot, a
lot of transcript chapters funding and location,
which is bad. Which brings us to certification.
Yes, you will be audited.
This is so hilarious. When I say when I say give people a badge,
you know, for certification, your podcasting 2.0 certified.
To me. That's like the top 5% of the internet. If you remember
that back in the in the late 90s.
We're at the original version of the name Alexa. Right?
Who Yeah. Oh, is that what it could be? Yeah, the Alexa
top 100 or whatever?
Well, the there was first a guy, just a guy who had this top 5%
of the internet. And he would send people emails and and of
course, he said, paste this code on your website, which was a
link back to his website. Yeah, that was the genius part of it.
And I got calls from Reebok from the Chief barkos. Whoa, we got
an email. We're top 5% of the internet. Like, we need to put
that badge on there right away. So the whole idea is a badge
that just links back to us. To me if you're on the new podcast
apps.com or the podcasts index.org slash apps page here.
2.0. Certified?
Yeah, you personally, I certified you personally.
Yes, that's what it is. You're on that list. You're certified.
We just need to have really, it may be that list that list that
page needs to? Ooh, I don't know. We got to work on on the
communication. I know, Eric. Eric is thinking about different
paths for people to take when they get to podcast. index.org.
Yeah, we do the listener side developer side, a podcaster.
side. But that's really it. And we're not going to go certify
people. We're not going to verify it. Hey, does your shit
work in my app? Oh, congratulations. Hey, does your
app work with this shit? Congratulations.
Is that the is that the white paper you just laid out?
Yes. Does your shit work here? Just any little piece of this
shit work? You got just the lock tag. Congratulations. You're in
sort of a batch.
A small batch is very small batch. batch. Yeah. So that's,
that's the certification.
I do like the idea of writing up a sort of a guidance thing where
it's like, because there are issues here like let Horwitz
feed to me. They're, they're a disaster. Yeah, what
exactly is the problem with his feed? What's going on? That's a
core
thing. That Yeah, well, no, it's it's HTTPS. So the feed is
consistent, was being served over HTTPS. And then but the day
closures weren't.
That's when you get a course thing I got
you get the you get the mixed content warning and all that
jazz. So like, there needs to be a guidance document that says,
Okay, are you do you want to be podcasting 2.0 you got to put
the namespace in there. But then you also have to, you know, or
not have to, but we also highly encourage you to review your
feed, make sure that this stuff works, because part of cast part
of podcasting 2.0 is that web podcast players are important.
And the web, the pw a guys cannot function properly. If
your webs if your feed rep has mixed content problems or in
court issues and all that kind of stuff. You gotta fix all that
stuff. But I think podcasting 2.0 we should link the badge
back to a page that says I agree. These things namespace
Corps, HTTPS, bah, bah, bah, bah.
Yeah. And I'd like that explanation because pw A's web
apps are critical to podcasting. 2.0 Which brings me to our next
little tidbit to hit, which may or may not be namespace related.
audiobooks,
though, I have audible on my list here.
Yes, I Well, that's brilliant minds. I that was that a link
that I shared with you earlier this week with the in our group
there about? How am I audible is completely boning independent.
Yeah, publishers of books. Or doc or something? Yeah, hold on
a sec. I have it. I have it here. Let me see
the name of something. Hold on a second I think space dot space
dot
here it is. Yes, space doc. Listen, he's he's a real good
voice.
Hey everyone, Daniel from space doc here in a rather different
video from usual today I'm here to talk to you all about the
experiences we've had with Amazon audible whilst trying to
distribute our science fiction audio drama, The sojourn and
what we've learned about how that company treats creators In
July of 2020, we submitted the first volume for serious
platforms, including audible. We did. So three weeks in advance
of the sojourns planned launch date, as we were told that would
be enough time for the files to be approved and processed.
Google Books and various other platforms managed to get the
volume ready to distribute in a couple of days. But as I'm sure
many of you have noticed, it took audible a frankly,
ludicrous four and a half months to get the volume up on their
store.
Jesus, yeah. And then, and then he does the numbers. And he
says, oh, by the way, you really only are winding up with 18% of
the revenue, if you really look at how they do how they
calculate and do everything, and they're stealing. And they're
assholes. And for months is ridiculous. This is all that
needs to happen. Because we'll do whatever and I'm speaking on
your behalf, Dev named Dave, we will create the endpoint,
whatever you need. But you just need a new interface that says
audiobook. And we need people to publish their audio books, in
chapters with streaming value for value, I guarantee you, you
will make more money than you will on Amazon. That's an easy
guarantee for me. And I think it can function under podcasting.
It'll work perfectly in a podcast app. But if you make an
interface that says audiobooks, value for value, I think some I
think it will work. I think it's even easier. It's even it goes
deeper than even that.
So what I had what I had jotted down on here when I watched that
video, so what I watched that video that you sent, and then
the next day on the way to to the office. I was listening to
him Cameron, what audio book it was anyway, I was listening to
an audio book on Audible. And, and I was noticing that it just
said chapter one chapter two chapter. Oh, it was the
yearling. Okay. I was listening to the yearling. The old book
from Marjorie kinnan. Rawlings. And so, each chapter, it's kind
of weird because I'm bouncing back and forth between the audio
book and the printed book. Because I'm sort of reading
along with my daughter who's 10. And the, the printed book, the
chapters have titles, and then the and the audible audiobook.
They're just chapter numbers. It just says chapter one chapter
two, my
god we haven't even fact figured chapters out yet
did they don't even have chapter titles. Oh, my goodness, in this
audible app has been around for free long is
worse than podcasting.
That's what I'm saying. So like, this is not. So this made me
think about this made me think about Spotify, and all the stuff
that they were, you know, doing on their thing last week, and
all the stuff they were touting? And I started thinking like, we
are so far ahead of that entire game. Oh, yeah. Like, oh, yeah,
we got if you want to put you can publish your audio book in a
podcasting 2.0, namespace to certified certified certified, a
certified feed. And you get all this stuff you could get imagine
the experience of going into a podcasting 2.0 app, to listen to
the yearling. Okay, the original book that year, like from Oh,
gosh, was from the 30s or 40s? No, no, no, I'm sorry, for the
early 50s. The original version of that, of that book, had
chapter titles had chapter art. I don't know who did it. I'm
sorry. It was from the 3030 3838. Okay, I don't know
who did the art, but it had art in it. So imagine you're going
into a podcasting 2.0 app, pod friend, podcast, attic pod
station. They know, Piper catcher, any of these, any of
these apps. And you're you start listening to the to the audio
book of the yearling. And it's got chapter titles. It's got the
chapter art in it. You could ran scripts, you can teach your
children to read along with the transcript yet because that that
book, the full text is available in on Gutenberg press. You You
could have a stellar audio book experience today.
Yep. As a
pod and get paid.
Yes. And I think that in this case, you'd have a little
algorithm like suggested price for this book. Yeah, yeah. What
this book Yeah, what do you think what is it worth to you?
About most books? Yeah, I'd be like five bucks. Just to just to
make it easy. As I'm going along. Maybe something says
still five bucks. Good. Knowing that I increased it a bit.
I finished I finished the yearling and I cried like a two
year old child. Because it was this is this is like one of the
saddest books ever.
Yeah, it's not really uplifting.
I would have boosted the hell out of that book if I had a
boost button. Because it was just a fantastic book. And they
so you could have and think about LibriVox, you know,
everybody's knock on LibriVox is that the narrators are not good
quality. Right now. They're spending they're, they're
spending their time, their valuable time to do this as a
service to humanity. But imagine that the increase in quality
that you would get if they knew they can get paid for it, and it
became a market
Exactly. And it's ready to go. And I've learned all it really
takes is some example of content. This is the main thing
that everyone's been missing for a decade, is you just back and
forth. And you need someone to say, okay, fuck it, I'll support
that. You know, what was a real tipping point for us? buzzsprout
transcript? Yeah, that was it. That was it. They had it
already, you know, so that, so that was just pulling the pieces
together. And someone said, okay, shit, yeah. And I'll make
an app that works with that. And then more people made content.
And that's how it works. This is why I've discussed with Max
Keiser, and Stacy, really, I should say, I discussed with
Stacy because you don't discuss with Max, you just sit back and
enjoy. She she's been putting together this dynamite
documentary 10 episode series of the orange pill called to the
moon. And it's their history, all the people they interviewed
about Bitcoin starting in 2010 2011, when they first got
into it, and you know, they have been around the world have
interviewed 1000s of people probably at this point. And
she's, she's she's edited this into a real fast pace. Dynamite
documentary, two episodes are out now I caught them. And I
listened to them on the swings chat. And it really translated
well to audio. And so I said, I said, Stacey, when you're done
with these, let's make a separate feed just a static feed
10 episodes. I'm sure I can get Tom to throw that on there.
Because they have they used buzzsprout just to separate, you
know, 10 episode feed that has a value block in it. And we're
gonna make it available in audio and video. Nice. And what a
phenomenal piece of content to experiment with value for value
with video as well. dollar apps can do it.
Which thing is things have video? I don't. I don't think
they do. That's a good point. I
don't think that they may not well, and also I'm sure pod
station doesn't play it but most apps will will play video.
I bet you put that bet you get a bet you could put video in
there. So you can do that fairly what I'm
thinking is instead of Oh, it's video podcasting, why not?
Here's your documentary app. Boom, there's a new documentary.
Here's the first one here's the cool thing about it. It's free
but it's value for value so you can boost in the documentary if
you have this is great is it just stream some stats while
you're watching it and make an app call it isn't just another
skin documentaries value for value documentaries
See that's so if you want to see if you want to see real what
real stagnation and lack of innovation looks like go look at
audibles app go look at Spotify as app if that's what you want.
If
that's how you want your your your work of art consumed,
yeah, then then then all you get to do is allow Spotify or Amazon
or any of these guys to get 50 60% market share. Yeah, and
you'll see all innovation come to a screeching halt Yeah,
that's that that's how that's how that works. I mean look like
I said look at the quality of experience that you can have in
a podcasting 2.0 compliant thing today. Yeah, and in it already.
It's not see this is what's been bugging me. This is what bugged
me all throughout the Spotify stuff last week. Is this is not
us trying to catch up to them. We are so far ahead of them or
miles miles ahead. We've got mugs with we got we got we got
mugs. We got mugs, baby we got time for mugs, you're ahead of
the game,
like a like a cougar happy hour. Okay, stop. You can't stop us
this crappy hour.
I just I'm just yeah, that that begins that is beginning to to
bother me is that this is not a keeping pace. We have already,
we're already, we're already way out in front here. Yeah. And
we're not even to alternate enclosure yet. That's good.
That's coming.
closures coming and that's when we're gonna figure out ipfs.
Yeah, because that's just gonna be a switch. And all you got to
do is switch to ipfs. And you're going to get it from, from us
opinion server or wherever else on the network, that's gonna,
it's gonna be amazing.
And that thing that James has been talking about, and like, in
his mind that he, he has this idea that of flipping back and
forth between video and audio streams, like Yeah, all that
stuff works. Yeah, we'll do we'll, we're gonna make we're
gonna make all that stuff happen. Yeah. Because this this
community of people that are committed deter that are
contributing to the namespace now. That's a good group there,
vigilantes
boy, the Cowboys. Yeah,
we can do it. Mm hmm.
It'd be good to have a cow girl.
that that would be that would be nice. Yeah, we know it'd be
nice.
I mean, it is what it is our I find our group to be incredibly
diverse, but it is kind of a lot of men. Yeah, that's what it is.
I mean, I know we've got the female counterparts who
contribute, but not I don't think necessarily in development
that I'm aware of.
Yeah, I think in general, the female, the female person, the
development of the percentage of developers out there that are
female is low anyway, so it's probably just,
I've employed a few good ones. I'll tell you that.
Oh, yeah. No, yeah. There's lots of good ones. They there's just
not enough of them. Yeah. I think but I think my daughter, I
think my 10 year old can be a blessing my daughter. I mean, I
get to get two girls, but my youngest daughter, I think she
can. I think she'd been good developer. Oh, really? Oh, she's
got that head. headspace. Nice. Yeah, nice.
It's funny how you see it early. You can tell when people are
just going to be infatuated with that kind of stuff for the rest
of their life.
Also, where, you know, you talk about being miles ahead. And you
know, I it's only so much time in the day, but I tried to go
past pod verse and pod guru and podcast addict and antenna pod.
And I try to keep up with everything. And everyone's
integrating. I see announcements all the time. Oh, we've added
this. Oh, we've added that.
Oh, Jason at podcast guru. They added some stuff recently, too.
He did his pull request on him. And he's on that page. First and
me I forgot what tag he put in IT WAS IT person. I can't
remember.
And it's so interesting. The different takes on integration.
You know, that's really where art comes down to it. Now,
because pod verse is completely different then than anything
else out there the way we're chapters are, how they're how
they're located. And I will say that one of the thing about pod
verse, which I love, it has internet is that Wait, I said
pod verse? Think of the wrong one. Now who has the radio
station in it?
The radio station?
Yeah. Hold on. Someone has radios whole distances radio and
you got a whole radio app? No, that's podcast addict, I think.
Let me say.
I don't know. I don't have a Android phone. So I guess that's
why
Yeah, podcast addict has there we go radio stations. And it's
better than tuning?
Yeah. Oh, I
want to see span.
Where's he getting that stream from? He's, I don't know, we say
he's tapping into some database. See, because that that's what we
could do that. With alternate enclosure. We're gonna have to,
we're one of the biggest challenges, I think with that
tag is going to be figuring out the live component because you
need a bit the ability to tap into an ice cast server.
Yes. And and boost and stream that to during live.
Yeah,
yeah, that's gonna be that's gonna be a big, big jump, big
feature. And I just hope that we're gonna figure out some of
these cross community things. You know, we had a nice chat
with Brian of London. Oh, yeah, we did, who explained his
developer. He showed his development and showed us what
hive can do. And there's some very interesting Well, firstly,
is a lot of knowledge how you manage assets on the blockchain.
It was very enlightening to me. Certainly, when it comes to how
do you get stuff out there that everybody can tap into and use?
And what are the upsides and the downsides? One of the downsides
is it's up there. There's no delete. You know, stuff like
that. is very interesting.
Yeah, that's kind of a problem.
Yeah, well, it's stuff you got to think about, obviously,
analogous to the history of podcasting. Around 2008. We were
the darlings of the tech media. We had the Oto was going to be
the the hottest new podcast platform and then everything
changed. Then Oto became Twitter and Facebook when opened and
YouTube was bought. And podcasting got pushed to the
bottom of the new stack for several years. Until the serial,
right combination of factors of people being tired of binge
eating and wanting some an audio in general, brought it all
screaming back. This entire project we're doing is so it's
like the simulation rebooted. The same type of things are
taking place the same synchronicity if you will, like
click, oh, this is good. Something else happened. That
person just showed up. Oh, my God, look what these guys are
doing. The Open Source nature of it all of that with with much
better tools. So the timeline has accelerated, things are
happening, which would take several years happens in two
months. And I believe that we're right now on the cusp of a
temporary amount of time that will be that will cloud
podcasting and subsequently podcasting 2.0 with NF T's and
clubhouse type things,
as they need a mini ice a mini
ice age in the timeline of podcasting 2.0 which is great,
because it's not going to last years. I mean, clubhouse is
imploding faster than even I thought it would. No idea, oh,
my God, it's already blowing up. So that's done. That's over.
We'll have some meet twos there on deck, obviously, Twitter is
going to do spaces and basically clubhouse for Twitter,
everyone's going to be running around. That's what all the
press will be focused on. Now, the good news is, this also
doesn't help Spotify or Apple or anybody else. But we're the ones
doing the open innovation and sliding in under the radar.
Because we also have this little magical Bitcoin thing that keeps
a lot of people focused on what we're doing. So to me, this is a
great opportunity to shore stuff up, get stuff deployed, get it
out, get into our next phase of the namespace. Because people
are going to be looking for shit when it's done. And it will end
this, this will end and then it'll probably be a piece of
content, who knows what it will be? Someone's going to show up
with something and it's going to incorporate all these pieces and
it's going to blow up. That is the simulation plays out the way
it did the first time. And so far. I think I've mentioned this
several times to you privately, like holy crap, man, this is
just like the first time.
And actually
yeah, maybe we can do podcasting. 2.0 you kind of set
the universe up for it.
Yeah, and I can see it going that way. You had the you have
the mini ice age, and then you have somebody brings all the
elements together into a killer product. Like not prosecuting
that product into a piece of killer content. Yeah, yeah.
Look, if somebody releases like an awesome, you know,
documentary that has all the different, it's got the chapter
art, it's got the transcripts, got them, but you can you can
send them money. They take all and you can flip back and forth
between audio and video on the road, automatically. It's an
app, you know, that can tell when you're driving, so it sends
the video off, and flips to audio only. But like all these
different pieces come together, and it's got located it's got
location. So it's showing you on an interactive map all the
different places that whatever this documentary is talking
about my
God, will it massage my scroll to him as well.
That's your, that comes from an extra boost. The this I mean,
like you have that, that piece of content that happens and then
all of a sudden, it's like,
it's gonna blow up. Yeah, it's gonna blow up. It's gonna blow
and we'll be pretty far along, I think weeks, maybe a couple
months, but we just have I just know how media works. I've been
in all my life. This is what it is NF T's all the way, which is
really kind of God. It's kind of funny. Yeah, it's it's like the
opposite of the whole idea of cryptocurrencies. It's like,
let's get something worse. Let's get something that you can't
trade. Except. Yeah, you can't you can't change it in anything
else. It has to be in this in this realm on this on this
trading platform. You can't we can't exchange it for anything.
It's a Beanie Baby. But yeah,
exactly. Yes. The Beanie Baby of kryptos exactly what it is. But
I thought Bitcoin was Beanie Babies. No. Nf T's are the
beanie babies of crypto.
Do you remember when driving through town and there would be
people on the side of the road on their car park and They would
have like 300 Beanie Babies. Oh yeah. And you could go in like
beanie bomb right off the hood of somebody's car. That's that's
what this is.
I tried it was that guys I tried to buy him when I had my public
company. The guy who had the original Beanie Babies trading
thing
is I don't know.
And I saw that coming a mile away and he said Dude, you can't
bring me enough money a couple things I tried I tried to buy
the CD database. Oh the CD DB Yeah, yeah, they just sold it
just sold it like two months before I got a hold of them.
Whatever happened to that is it still functional?
I you know, it's probably a godsend because it probably make
any money for whoever got it. I don't know. Why not it I think
it got cheese didn't get bought up by when amp or something.
Maybe I remember when lame. Do you remember when lane or lane
the lame mp3 encoder? Yes. Yeah,
of course. Lane. Of course. Of course. Yes.
So though there was a version of it called win lane. And it was
always getting DMCA takedown everywhere because it used the
Fraunhofer and codec and all that jazz. But when lane had a
CD Ripper, and it was all automated, so then you would in
one of the options was you can put a check mark into when I put
a CD into rip it, pull all the information from the CD dB. And
you were just like automatic, right? And I always kept
thinking like, this guy's making any money. Like this doesn't
make any sense. But you know, the answer was they weren't.
So they tried to get bought by Microsoft. Okay, so yeah, so the
guys who bought it, who they sell it to, to a high tech,
consumer electronics manufacturer, SC ENT and that
was in 1998. That's when I tried to buy them. And it turns out
that Essien all they wanted to do was turn around, actually,
they want it to do a little extortion, legal extortion, they
want to flip it off to and sell it to Microsoft.
Oh, okay.
So that. Yeah, they want to flip it that didn't work out. Then
they renamed it grace note, and this I know, shows up in my car,
it shows up everywhere.
Oh, I didn't realize that it became great. Yeah,
they rebranded it and became great. And then Sony in 2008.
Fully acquired grace note. Okay, I have no and oh, and they
resold it to Nielsen in 2016. It's a horror scene of sloppy
fifths. It's not even seconds anymore. I'm glad I didn't tap
that. Yes.
Yes, it's the VI D, venereal diseases CD DVD.
To thank a few people. For this, this would be talking about
value for value, which is exactly what this show is what
this project is what the podcast index is. If you get any benefit
from any value that you drive, please consider returning that
it seems to be a real good karmic experience. And whatever
you decide to support us with, and we'll take any of the
trifecta time, talent, treasure, a lot of people spending time
and talent, treasure wise, whatever it is, make it
meaningful to you. That's what value is when it's meaningful to
you. Because it's not about us necessarily being able to pay
the bills, which we can do. We're doing okay. It's about the
feeling you get from it. And by the way, when I see those
PayPal, emails coming,
I always feel good. Yeah,
I always look who's this? Okay. Yeah. 10 bucks, five bucks. Oh,
a new recurring. Oh, this is great. It works. It works. And
it's part of the foundation. And it's a great way to, to for
price discovery for creative works in a fair and
decentralized way. And one thing? Yeah, I was gonna say
that I just got an email that voltage is adding bitpay to
their services. So I will set up a proper Bitcoin and lightning
QR code etc. experience for us to integrate into the homepage
of podcast index. org.
I'll be nice.
Yeah. So it's easier for people to send us just the other thing
we use was, I think, still something that came from Sphinx
chat.
Oh, yeah. The embed. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So
which is fine, but I think was time to upgrade. So what came
came in as cookbooks?
Well, we get we'll get a good group. Our bill this month, our
hosting bill is higher than normal. It's usually around 300.
But asking me 380 this month.
Oh, what did we do? Well, it's
from that date. database migration, we had to. So instead
of, you know, what I did was I spun up a new server that's our
biggest VM costliest server. So I spin up a new server and then
did in migrated the data from the old one to the new one. So I
left it running for a few weeks. I don't
I don't see any mention of this in your TPS report.
You didn't you don't remember. My rampant bitching about, about
the stupid database migrate? Yeah,
I think I heard some of that. Yeah.
And that was that was a noise have
taken days.
It was one of those things where it got all the way done and they
didn't fail. They get all the way down again, and it failed.
Again.
It's like trying to restore your Microsoft Windows 10 on the
laptop. From a backup, you know, it's like it's all the way Oh,
sorry. To start over.
Come to find out. restoring a 47 gig database is not a quick
process.
It's a lot of data,
a lot of data. But John's Bernheimer. He is helping us to
cover that he sent us $41
Wow. Thank you. Yeah,
he says, I'm a loyal listener who absolutely loves your work
and just listening into the discussions. Distributed work
like this needs to be kept alive. Please take the remnants
of my paypal account. You deserve it.
Yes. Thank you. Perfect. Empty out the wallet. Love it. Very
much, john.
Thanks, john. Oh, Dame Jennifer Buchanan.
Oh, man, she does so much. She doesn't have to talk. She's
doing more than just time and talent. She's doing the
treasure. Okay.
$33.33 he says in the morning, y'all. I'm loving listening to
your progress on pc 2.0 even though it has zero relevance to
me right now. I'm not a podcast or coder or a bit corner. But my
brain has a tickle from it. Someday I will figure out why.
Oh, but I will admit I have a thing for hot namespace talk.
We know why you're here, Jennifer. We know why you're
here. You just like the hot namespace talk.
Hugs and kisses named Jennifer. Ah,
thank you, Jennifer. So
let's see here. Okay, I had to get my oxygen tank for this
long note. Yes, it is. Is this from the show business show
guys.
Simon aronowitz I hope I'm saying your name right. I think
I am. For super cereal marketing. A they sent us $20
and he says the note says Hey, guys note note read coming. It's
shorter this time. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. He said in the
morning, Adam and Dave, I've tried to make this week's note
from get super cereal shorter than last week, you'll be happy
to know I didn't do a word count in case I failed. By the time
you say wait Dave, you have permission to disclose what I
write here and double check with the other party. By the time you
get to reading out this note. The second episode of the
business of the show business show should be available as a
podcast and as an online TV show. All all links can be found
at www dot show business dot show. Our guest this week was
Dave Jackson from the School of podcasting. And very
appropriately, we played a clip from Sunday's no agenda 1325
Adam the timecode for the episode is 221 and 17 seconds.
Think of this combination. I think of this combination. I
just listened to no agenda and Adams gripe about road not
giving him road caster Pro. Then knowing that we had Dave Jackson
booked for an interview. I was reading his book profit from
your podcast, his research. Adam, he dedicated the book to
you and Dave Weiner. Really? Then I read it. It didn't I read
in the book that Dave scored a free road caster pro What? So we
asked Dave what he did differently. It's worth a
listen, the timing was perfect was perfect again timecode
Well, I didn't I didn't ask for anything.
You had somebody asked for it on your behalf.
No one someone who's a dealer, a road dealer, I think in
Australia is where they are. had sent a clip of me saying man, I
could you know, I could fix this. Almost it's almost good.
And he sent it to the marketing department and got a Yeah, we're
not gonna pursue this. We're doing other things now.
It's like yeah, they gave you the middle finger
pretty much.
If any podcast 2.0 podcasting 2.0 listeners want to know about
profiting from their podcast. This second episode is the show
business show with Dave Jackson's another great episode
to understand what's going on right now and where things are
headed. Dave said somewhat tongue in cheek that if you want
to make money in podcasting, go into editing To wrap this
shorter note up. Number one podcast production is hell.
That's why I said that this episode should be available by
the time you read this. It's not held for this podcast. There is
no post production for this podcast, right?
We go live baby.
Yeah. Number two, Adam, we have some thoughts about streaming
value for value value, both with regard to one show we're
producing for a client and also more widely for the whole
ecosystem. So we want to have you as a guest on an upcoming
episode of show business show. Yes, we are video first and I
know you don't like that. But get this. Billy. My business
partner also has Tourette's knows.
Dude, we can tick off each other. It'd be hilarious.
it cracks me up the desk the end. Dude,
we got one of us has two rats join us.
We got one of you people too. Yeah, you're
one of us. Your family. That's brazen
man. I like it.
I appreciate that. Bold, very bold. Billy, my business partner
also has Tourette's and knows that if you know what to look
for, you can notice his takes on camera, Dave. Check with Billy
and he gave me full permission to share this.
Okay, that's hilarious. Yeah, that's all here's the problem.
Are they 2.0 certified?
And they have
somebody they need to be audited?
Well, I'm trying to find maybe it's all one word show business.
It's show business show. You know, I had trouble finding an
index too. And I ended up having to combine two words together. I
think
types show business
as one word.
No, I do show business as one word and I get two results. mici
Bach and man who Stein? Does their podcasts on own meet me
Chibok?
some reason I'm thinking that's not that's not the one.
So that's weird.
Well, I found them the other day, but it did. I did have to
search a couple times and see show business with a very
reasonable cost.
Sorry about that. That's my pod friend. No, no.
No, that is she means business the show that's not that easy.
If I
do show space business, I get nothing. No results. Right.
Yeah, we get to figure this out.
What's his name?
Simon Simon around with and it's show business show? is super
serial marketing is the
EU maybe a super cereal
basin?
Well, this is not what kind of index you running Dave Jones.
That's a piece of crap.
We got to figure out what's going on with that.
So my file a bug report.
Well, so to answer his question, of course, I'm flattered. I'd
love to be on your show. I think a Tourette's off would be
hilarious to tick off. That said, you do have to wait
because I've promised many other people mainly grime, Erica. But
also i'm going to do I'd like to max and Stacy again when we're
ready to launch some stuff. So I'm sure in the future
definitely. Got a lot of requests.
And and we understand where you're coming from. We'd love to
have you as a guest we'll see if we'd love to have you have the
guests video thing didn't put you off. When you did Rogen and
two we can work around it if you have to three A big thank you to
listeners of podcasting 2.0 who listened to our first episode,
we were pleasantly surprised by the stats. Oh, have a great
weekend. Everyone from the guys at WWW dot show business show.
Simon there aronowitz and Billy fansler Thanks, guys. Nice.
Thank you so much, gentlemen. Thanks very cool.
See
this show business show? How about that? Will that work?
Did that work? I don't know.
I'm just looking at their website right now.
The show business shit
I'm still not finding they have maybe the doing hyphens. I found
it I swear I found it the other day. Yeah, but this can't be
this hard. The dash show. business. I want to see it.
The business show. No. show business. Remember that no
matter no matter how I combined this No, I
can't get it either. I will absolutely do that one out.
It's too many. There's too many generic words. There's there's
nothing there. Okay. This is a $10 donation from Sterling
Ellsworth. And Sterling just says his home messages.
Everything Adam does is super Awesome.
And how much did I pay him to do that? No.
It's a wash. That's it. Oh, that's great.
Well, good group and we'd really appreciate it. value for value.
It's definitely the way forward price discovery of creative
stuff. Everything creative code is creative. extremely creative.
podcasting is creative. It's all creative. And it's hard to show
hard costs. So yeah, you know, Waldo you just did 380 a month.
Well, that's still very, very reasonable.
Yeah, our our expenses are basically the hosting costs,
which are roughly 300 to 350 a month. The cost of our email
accounts, which is about $5 a month. What else do we have?
Well, we we've been doing some legal stuff.
Oh, you have to get it to get Terms of Service and all that.
Yes. So don't go to jail. Yeah.
Or at least Eric doesn't go to jail. You and I were clear, man.
We're not going to jail. We're sending IRA
Rossi to jail.
We had nothing to do with it.
He would hold up better there anyway.
Yes. Which is sensitive.
Oh, my goodness. That's, that's pretty. That's pretty much it. I
think. And oh, no, I'm sorry. We've got got her CloudFlare
that's 20 bucks a month. And they were running. been running
somewhere south of 400 a month
easily. So good, man. That's unbelievably cool. Hey, now you
also have the the whole database dump on ipfs?
Oh, yeah, forget, I can't blame forgets all about that. That was
fun. That was a fun project. So it's in that it is really good
that we have lots of bandwidth headroom, because that's gonna
chew up some bandwidth clearly. But we have. So what it's doing
every night at midnight is it takes a dump of the database.
And all the it's just the feeds table. So all the feeds get
dumped into into a temporary file. And then they get imported
as a CSV. And then they get imported into a sequel lite
database. And this nasty, yeah. And then with a schema with the
table schema, and all that stuff gets imported into a sequel lite
database. And then, and then it gets tarred and jesup. And then
published to ipfs. And then our excuse me, added to ipfs. And
then published under an IP ns, a static new slate. Yeah. So it's
all it's all IP, ns ipfs?
Are people getting this through? ipfs? Or just through our
gateway?
Everybody seems to be getting it through ipfs because that's the
only way it's available. I mean, there's no HTTP downloaded this
thing. Alright. We're not providing a gateway. Now we're
using CloudFlare. ipfs.
Okay, excellent. Excellent. Wow. What is that costing us?
Nothing?
Well, I mean, it costs us a little bit $5 for a server.
Yeah.
$5 a month for a server? This is so the future?
Yeah, I think so. ipfs is such an exciting idea to me. It is to
me to the only thing is it just needs better DNS integration.
You know, there needs to be friendlier names for these
things. You know, a slash ad, he just can't tell somebody, well
go get it go to slash ipfs slash bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla, but for under the hood stuff, just for an
alternative enclosure? ipfs. Click, suck it down.
Oh, yeah, totally. That's an issue. The other the, you know,
because this is part of the master plan here. Because the
master plan is, at least in my mind, is put the all this like
this database. Now that we have the IP net, the IP ns addresses
the folder. Yeah. So it's a static address by folder. So
then now we have basically a static IP address mapping to
this folder. So what I plan to do is break the database up into
small chunks, so that there's like, maybe every 10,000 fields
is it separate as a separate chunk, oh, handy. And then what
we can do is start working on the distributed polling client,
to babbit come from all different places
to have every so that anybody who wants to run a polling agent
can can download it can download the agent onto a server or the
desktop or whatever, in the background. It will go out grab
a chunk of the database, bring it down and begin to slowly pull
the feeds in their chunk and then let us know if an update
has happened to that feed. Yeah, distributed aggregation. So
yeah, that's I thought hot namespace talk was everything
but when you get the sexy sequel light baby
distributed aggregation data hit the sexy boost or whatever that
is.
I don't have a 60 boost
that Yeah, no, that's, that's, um, I'm happy with that I think
this is the this is the first very exciting journey.
So just from a general focus, my takeaway from this board
meeting, since we're very bad at doing minutes, more
or less doing minutes
we have a period of several weeks, maybe a couple months,
where we're gonna have a lot of noise about other stuff in the
marketplace. You know, the I already see especially NF T's in
in clubhouse type stuff, I'd love to get a couple more
implementations of lightning and really get as much integration
with phase one and phase two of the namespace. So we have that
solid, you know, and then when people are ready, we're already
on to onto three and G In the meantime, audiobooks, all this
type of stuff and then I think once this is kind of up and
running and we have podcasters can point their listeners to
apps that are intuitive and understandable or they can say
to their app developer hey, these guys have it can you
integrate it and which is where hopefully airline pay comes in
as a solution then we go from there we go you know full in my
mind force Full speed ahead to alternate enclosure with ipfs
high on the agenda.
Go Yeah, no, I think that's that I approve these minutes.
I second them. Alright, that's it. All right, everybody where
we haven't been to drinks.
box lunches.
Hey, man, it's so good to catch up with you. I love it. I love
having guests on the show. But it's also nice for you me just
catch up. And so just so people know. This is literally our
ketchup. I don't do we talk any differently when we're just
talking privately on the phone?
Didn't notice exactly like this phone call? Yeah,
yeah, we did that. We just air our grievances about other
people. We just don't do that here. yet.
The the pot friend mug. I just want to say that that thing is
perfect size to fit one entire can of beer.
That's not what they drink up in. Martin's neck of the woods.
They drink something it looks like urine. But he says it's
lemonade. You saw it? You saw what was that glass? I like is
that beer? What are you drinking? Man?
I don't know what the name of that what that name was. It's
like coffee or something like
that with brown cheese. Which by the way that brown cheese is
dynamite. I think it's best if that's from maybe from Finland.
Around cheese. Probably a big mistake to confuse those
countries with stuff.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Your your dish now?
Yeah. Oh, well. defragment Alright, Dave, have a great
weekend and dude. Next week we go full bore into whatever comes
our way. Yeah, it's a new week. Look forward to seeing you back
here at the board meeting next Friday for podcasting 2.0
podcasts. index.org
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast.
For more information.