podcasting 2.0 for March 26 2021, Episode 30 with a
digital abolitionists
plant that flag while we still can,
hello everybody
Friday once again time for afford meaning of podcasting 2.0
and everything going on at podcast index.org the podcast
namespace you name it. It's a beautiful day it's Adam Curry
here in Austin, Texas. And in Alabama, the boy wonder of
boosting my friend on the other end.
Thought you were gonna go with like low hanging fruit. I
thought you're gonna go with the flapping in the breeze.
No, no, no, no, no, no. You aren't you are. You are totally
the boy wonder of boosting days.
This is a beautiful day sunshine for once in like two weeks. No
tornadoes.
Well, hold on a second cuz you know you're in Alabama and you
had tornadoes last night, right?
Oh, yeah. Five people down here. Up in North Alabama. Holy crap.
Yeah, this was like normal fare to you guys is like, Ah, it's
this time of year. And this is what happens.
Yeah, I mean, every we have two tornado seasons here. Yeah,
March, April and November, a little bit of December. But I
mean, it's every year, it's just, it's just every year, but
he knows the protocol. In it's typically only typically only
bad if you have if you're if you're rural and don't have good
access to, you know, television, radio, that kind of thing,
right?
You get the big giant voice system. Does that come on and
tell everybody to be careful?
It does. And that's essentially a point of contention. It's not
the voice the tornado siren sound like this? Yes. Yeah,
that's it.
This is actually I think this is from Japan. This one.
From Japan.
That's the tsunami tsunami
warning. Yeah. Tsunami. I think you're right.
We got that. And that's actually been a bone of contention for a
long time is it's county wide. So when a tornado if a tornado
just barely clips the edge of a county. Yeah, it goes a siren
everywhere. Right. Like, oh, crap, you know, it could be like
350 miles away from me. Anyway,
well, glad you're okay. We have tornadoes here as well. Although
not an Austin Hill Country kind of kind of knocks them flat. So
don't get too much. But it's been bad. It's been bad around
here. We had other crap.
Yeah, y'all got a lot of stuff we
worry about. We just freeze to death while you guys are getting
blown away, you know,
in your water goes away. Oh, well. minor
detail. Yeah. minor detail. Wow. I mean, quite awake.
Mr. Jones?
A few things.
Yes. Well, we warned everybody and I think we were warning
ourselves that breeze would drop. And they did and Wow. What
an impact.
Yeah. Seriously.
Prop props. And thanks, upfront to podcast Business Journal. Who
gave us a nice, a nice little blurb there. It's interesting.
I've yet to have one person of the any press mainstream or
otherwise to reach out to me.
Yeah, yes. The ad Ron emailed me yesterday in his want to get he
didn't use it for any kind of, they'd already written it up,
right. But he was like, Hey, we are going to talk about some
sort of show tomorrow. And you know, I guess he's one to kind
of get the lowdown. But he did reach out and heard from email.
But in general, it's always it's just always baffling to me.
Okay, all right. Well, you're writing stories, people are
writing brightened posts everywhere, but no one has asked
anything. And Wow, I've learned so much. First, let me give some
numbers right off the bat, just to tell everybody why I'm so
damn excited. So my podcaster wallet. And this is I mean, I've
no idea what's out there now. So we have Sphinx chat, which has
always been a steady stream, I think that I was making was a
Dave about two or $3 a day maybe it's a switch from anything that
was coming in streaming from swings chat. And now mind you,
that is about 45% of whatever payment is being sent. Because
all of my shows I have three want this one, no agenda and Moe
facts and I think it's probably this one that has the most but
maybe no agenda will be competing now in I have no way
to tell yet.
No agenda can't compete with us. Okay,
I guess he knows. Exactly. So 45% average is going to me that
means the payment is is at least double that. But now this
morning, I'm doing like almost $18 a day.
That's real money.
Well, you know, I've always said hey, just times this 1000 Well,
if I don't, just don't have enough data, I don't have a I
don't have even a week's worth yet. But once I have a couple
weeks worth of data, I mean, if it's truly, you know, like 20
bucks a day, and we can just by sheer numbers of more apps and
users can build that 10x, which I think has to be possible.
Hopefully, we'll 10x with just breeze swings and pod pod
station alone, then you're talking 200 bucks a day.
Yeah, that's really I mean, that's real money. That's less
livable money, right?
Yeah, that's $6,000 a month. That's, you know, you're, you're
working on 70 grand a year. Hell yeah, that's real money.
And I think there's something else to this that, like, there's
always a, trying to figure out a word this, there's always like
that gold rush at the beginning of anything that happens when
there's a new app store that comes online, right, you know,
or some new social network or whatever, there's always this
sort of rush in there. And there's this sort of golden
window of opportunity, where at the beginning, the first sort of
adopters of that, yes, they're taking a risk, because there's
not, it's not proven. But on the on the flip side, there's,
there's basically no risk, you know, with just submitting your
stuff and getting into a system. And then you're, you become for
for this sort of golden period of time. You're one of the few
that's listed there. Right. And prom and prom. Yeah, yeah. So
people are getting into me a breeze and Sphinx and pod
station, and Martin Piper is working on stuff. People are
getting into these apps. And in Mitch, they're getting into
these apps. And like, they'll see which podcast there are
value block enabled. And for a while isn't there's not going to
be a ton of them. So you have this opportunity to get your
your podcast in front of a lot of people upfront, real quick.
Exactly. Which I think he can I don't think you can, you know,
you can't discount that. Because that's, you know, so
you don't run into that opportunity. Very often. It's
interesting. This is now this is not well, it is intentional,
because I've obviously been in close contact with Roy and
Brees. And once we have our bring our guests in today, I
want to continue that story a little bit because it does
pertain to basically expectations of people when it
comes to people who understand crypto. And people understand
podcasting and what are the expectations of what kind of a
combined type of type of app does. But they chose
specifically to only surface anything that's, that has a
value block. And, and although I knew it would disappoint a lot
of people in fact, I had people telling me, hey, it's broken. I
mean, it's broken, the search is broken. Yeah. And he was very
hard when I say Could you tell me what you what you did? So I
can understand. Yeah, it's broken. So someone searching for
their own podcast
or Okay, as I
was searching for their podcast, it's not in the it's not going
to surface so it's broken. So you know, there was obviously
some of that but what it did and as intended was drive people to
go Oh, crap. And I wanted like you said, I want to get on this
list. It's very much like the Oh God, I hated it, by the way, but
that was exclusive. This is anybody can get on it. Because
it's just an algorithm for trending. Twitter friends list,
it was the you know, like a special jack Dorsey lists that
you can get on and it just suggested, suggested followers.
Very gross, very gross. But anyway, we'll get into the into
the depth of all that, but it's, it has just blown me away. In
particular, when you look at the bubble chart that marnix has
been maintaining.
That thing's getting big.
I mean, it's mind blowing, it shows because all of those
connecting lines are represent payments. Now it's it's not you
know, it literally represents value flow. So if it's big fat
and white, which I think you know, we need to change the
colors because of course it's going to be seen as white
supremacy by someone somewhere somehow.
Got a stop, stop the statue. Oh, I have a as a formal complaint
that get dude who is the equity, diversity and inclusion board
for Bitcoin because I want to lodge a personal complaint,
okay, against the term uncle Jim's node. The most racist
thing I've ever heard in my life.
Now. Do you know Do you know who I heard say that first? Yeah.
He told
me like somebody on the street somebody else thinks.
Who the hell is Uncle Gino?
Oh my goodness. Oh, and the funny thing is I haven't I had
he passed away Uncle Jim. We call them Thumper. James because
he was a heart surgeon, a jazz drummer and a raging alcoholic.
So whenever you think of Uncle Jim, it's like I see him you
know, and I was smiling. That guy was living his best life.
Oh, by the way, he died. He died of lung cancer. Of course.
Now we know it's Uncle Jim is actually Jim Eagle,
right? Yeah, I saw this Yeah, he's usually our president said
what's worse than Jim Crow laws? Well, Jim Eagle laws of course.
Yes. Jim Eagles node. Crap, holy crap.
We have we've got stuff is extremely racist
is the good point. Good point that you should have called for
a point of personal privilege. But okay. You did not follow
parliamentarian rules here at
the board me? Yes. All right, you can strike it from the
record.
today. What should we bring our guests in? Because our guests
can speak about all of this and probably a lot better to some of
the things we're going to be talking about? Yes. Very happy
to have with us. A one of our developers, who is part of the
community over there at podcast index dot social, where anyone
is welcome to come and share ideas and, and help kind of
develop all this together. And so I'm very proud to present
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the board meeting your pilot in
charge of the pod verse. Young Master Mitch Downey.
Hey, what's up guys?
What's the correct term is Hey, guys.
Hey, man. Hey, Mitch.
Hey, guys.
There you go. Man, so good to speak with you. Yeah, it's
great to be here.
Please. For people who aren't familiar with your wealth
course, if they're on the podcast index on social they are
but give us a little background? Who is Mitch? And what does he
do? Sure. I'm
a software engineer these days. I'm a full stack JavaScript
developer. And I've been working on pod verse for almost eight
years now. It's pretty much how I learned how to program. In my
younger days. I'm not as young as you think, Adam, I'm actually
36
Well, now this is disappointing because I when I saw you on the
the one jitsi chat that we did, I went to my wife and said, Oh
my god, this is fucking college kid. And brilliant. Man. The guy
is brilliant. I don't know what's going on with him. But I
love having them around. Well, young at heart doesn't matter.
We're all basically the same in in this community. So
yeah, now that you got four, you got four kids, right?
So
just just bought the Tesla.
None of that. But yeah, so in my younger days, I actually was an
English and philosophy major as an undergrad. So Dave, I know
you said I've studied philosophy too.
Yeah. Now I know why you're a programmer. Because there's no
money. There's no money in the liberal arts. Exactly. Right.
Yeah, it
took me about six years to figure that out and change my
career plans,
get my first job and not and it was the group I was working. I
was working with. There's about five of us. If you went around
the room, it was like an ask everybody what their major was.
It was like, philosophy, English history. Like, there was nothing
It was all liberal arts, you know, everybody went straight
out and like, Oh, wait, I can't get a job. I better go into it.
Yeah, that was that was true for me. When I finally got a
programming job. I it seems like 50% of the people didn't study
programming in college and were mostly self taught, came to it
from different play.
You play an instrument.
I haven't played very much since I've been programming all the
time. I used to play guitar a lot though.
You got musicians that to your point, Dave about philosophy.
But musicians make great programmers, bass players and
drummers I find a really really consistently good yeah,
that's Yeah, cuz they drive the drive. Keep
the drive. Yeah, they keep the beat they drive it. But also
complex music and notation.
Eight years on pod verse Mitch. That's a long time. I had no
idea pod verse had been around that long.
Yeah, well, it started it was called podcast quotes. And it
was like a Reddit clone that would have, you would type in
manually quotes from different podcasts. And that was before I
even knew how to code. I was just trying to learn user
experience design at the time and trying to convince
programmers to actually help me build things, which didn't go
very well because I didn't have any money to offer them. So I
know the feeling So I eventually realized I had to figure this
stuff out for myself and pod versus I've, this is like the
fifth iteration of it. I've just been coming back to it to teach
myself how to program. And it's an outlet for my love of
podcasting and open source software. Oh, beautiful.
Love that. Now you have you have a registration system for extra
features, correct?
Yes, we have all server side features. You have to be
subscribed as a member per pod verse. And right now you get a
one year free trial membership. And beyond that, it's $10 a year
at the current price, the prices aren't supposed to be
prohibitive, like if people can't afford it, we would
probably just give you a free membership if you reach out to
us and ask for one. But we need to have some sort of well,
income because the servers cost money even though the software
you can give away for free the servers we have to spend on a
monthly basis for
Yeah, so do you have a consistent user base? Yeah.
It has been steadily growing thanks mostly to you guys. With
podcasting 2.0.
We,
we had we plateaued for a long time, we had like a very small
amount of people who somehow found it and like the clip
sharing feature. And with ever since, have you been shouting
out our name on various podcasts? We've seen a steady
increase in our user base almost every day, like every week where
we're getting like a 20% gain over Oh, wow. Holy crap. Oh,
I should charge for that.
That is great. And I'm glad you released an app to the app is
really slick. And I find myself go into it. I mean, uh, one of
the clips for today's show. I did. Well, yeah,
definitely. Here's to the clips. And that's kind of in your DNA,
right?
Yeah, that was the original plan for pod verse. It's supposed to
be you know, just a small little podcast clipping app. And now
it's turned into this giant, multi apps. We got iOS, Android,
web, we've got feed parsers. on our server. We've got all of
this stuff going on. But yeah, the core functionality of the
app is clip sharing.
Very nice. Tell us about how you found the index and what what
was your path?
Sure, I think it was through James cred Lin. And pod news,
actually. Boy, it must have been around August or so. I was in a
I was finally like ready to branch out and try to connect
with more like the podcast community and share this app.
And I wanted to get involved in other open source projects. And
I happen to see pod news had some GitHub repos. And it looked
like there were some things here and there I might be able to
help with. And somewhere along the way James sent me. He's
like, you should check out podcasting. 2.0 it's coming out.
It wasn't out yet. At the time. He just like tipped me off to it
early. Yeah. And incidentally, I had been listening to you and no
agenda since like, like six months prior to that. I had to
fairly recently, right before your first Joe Rogan appearance,
like a few months made morish? Yeah. So it was like serendipity
that it just all lined up.
That's cool. What is? So when it comes to, like on the tech on
the tech side of things? No, at one point, you're we're leaning
on the index a lot. But I think you've started doing your own
parsing and like what, what's your back end setup look like as
far as how you're handling your your tech on the back end?
Sure. Well, we are doing all of our own parsing and data
storage. We have been doing that for a few years now. And our
primary motivation for that was because we didn't want to be
solely dependent on iTunes, like everyone is. And now the thing
is, it's a big project to manage by itself. As you guys know,
that's your full time responsibilities. And so we had
a very small version of the database, and we were manually
adding things as people requesting it. And we had about
40,000 podcasts on there. And thanks to your resources and the
endpoints you've provided, and like the ability for us to sync
with your database. We are now up to 1.5 million podcasts.
And you're trying to play catch up from Christopher is named
dumping the entire world into us.
Yeah, actually, I haven't checked recently, maybe it's up
to 2 million if he's no, it's,
it's insane. I mean, it's like it's like, you know, 10,000 a
day. It's crazy. Wow. Yeah.
He's doing great work. So yeah, and beyond that, though, so one
of the keys is you you give us an endpoint that notifies us
when a podcast should be updated. Ah and That has. So we
are able to do all of our parsing through your
notifications get very cheap, like it dropped our server costs
by like 90%. When we switched over to nice, yeah, that
endpoint,
that running to speed, the aggregation stuff has, it has to
be distributed. But it's really difficult to distribute to have
it distributed in a way that doesn't cost you money. And as a
weird thing to say, but like, what so is you rapidly figure
out okay, one, if I, if I'm going to do aggregation with one
server, it's got to be a heavyweight server, it's got to
be a big one. And so the more cost effective way is to split
it out amongst you know, multiple aggregators and have
them all doing the job and feed it back to the main to the main
marks, that then your main box has to be able to handle that
load. So there's this weird balancing effect. And it's
really hard to come out of it without spending a lot of money.
And so you always have to, like handle these caveats of you
know, okay, well, I'm gonna change a little bit here. And
that's gonna make things harder here. It's like this is this
weird, financial, financial and technical balancing act. Yeah,
I heard. I heard Marco somewhere else. Maybe this is what I heard
and then read myself that on a slack or something he posted
that it costs him five grand a month to run his back end for
overcast?
Yeah, man. Yeah, he's got a lot more going on. But I think he
also, I think, my impression is that he's probably doing what a
know what I know, a few other people are doing, which is they
just have some big VMs. Like, right, like some that cost
hundreds of months just for that one virtual machine. Right.
Right. It's our long term goal with this in, because I know,
what we've had to do is prioritize things. Because, I
mean, if there's going to be 2 million podcasts out there. I
mean, number one, you know, you don't want to necessarily pull
all those things all the time, because most of them are dead,
right? I mean, I think Daniel J. Lewis, his latest stats are only
out of the 2 million
1000 or something, it's, um, it's
only 35 is like 30 something percent or even post still
publishing episodes. So mate, like you don't want to be it's a
complete waste of time, money, bandwidth, everything to be
pulling 2 million feeds, when only a third of them are
actually posting content. Right, right, right. So we try, we're
trying to our aggregators look, and just they back off when
something stops posting, they just stopped checking out very
often, if that means if that means you have to go like, it's
going to take a day to pick up a new episode from a podcast that
hasn't published in six months. That's fine. I mean, I don't
really care because then you'll start checking more but it's
just is that in order to not go broke? You have you have to make
trade offs like that. I can I can see I can definitely your
pain. Mitch. It's,
it's hard. Yeah. For real for real?
Well, it's it's been going really well. In the first couple
months there was like, they had to stabilize and some people had
some requests and some bugs but it we've had no complaints for
at least like a month or two. So this integration seems to be
working great.
How about
well, actually hold on a second Come on in he's young lady's
name,
but he can talk hot like anybody.
Don't pay any attention to the wedding ring.
Now what what tags you support in the namespace so far?
We support funding chapters in sound bytes currently.
Nice.
And next up on our roadmap is the value tag and transcripts.
Nice What are you going to how are you how are you going to do
the value tag? what's what's your plan there?
Our plan is to use the Ellen pay integration that will be our
starting point. showed it to our co founder Korean the other day
and he was impressed by how easy it looked. So yeah, we're hoping
to get that in in April.
What will the user experience be like on it?
Probably similar to all the other apps we could have
streaming sets we could have a boost button. That is the
intention nice aside for now.
Nice.
As well go
ahead. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead.
I was gonna say something about the sound bites tag.
Please do because you because you kind of in my forgetting
that you kind of drove that. Dave did that come from some I
remember that bus route
is some I remember the pod verse app being with the clips being
like the shining example. I may be misremembering.
While we are integrated with sound bites, I'm not sure there
are that many apps that are integrated with it. But so I
think that this is the most underrated and underutilized tag
in 2.0. Because a sound bite is just a clip. And what we have
right now, if I check the databases, we have 140,000 sound
bytes that are created by the podcasters themselves and shared
in their RSS feeds. And only about 20 of them have titles. So
we have a ton of the sound bytes, which from pod versus
perspective, we could just start sharing on our homepage and
across the app to help, you know, raise exposure for these
different podcasts. But without a title, we don't want the site
to just be full of untitled clip right? everywhere,
right?
And I'm not entirely sure why that's happening. Because I know
fireside has titles enabled, maybe there's like a
communication thing, maybe podcasters aren't aware of the
value it could bring to them. If they just add a title, these
clips are already creating
this this week, we should get his message out to Dan Benjamin
and Tom Ross and all this guy. We should throw that message out
there and just see, like, what if their UI is allowing you to
do a sound that without a title? It might be worth considering me
to making that mandatory? Because that you're right. I
mean, that really is a PR thing. And I thought about that?
Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, I'll apologize. I'll stand corrected.
If it turns out it's a bug on our end, but every time I've
checked it out, it seems that there just aren't titles with
the vast majority of sound bites that are being shared. So I
think there's a lot of untapped potential there. To raise
visibility for podcasts.
Yeah. And is it as buzzsprout is really the creation tool?
Because unlike the, the cobbler, whose kids have no shoes over
here? Where does that go? Where does the data go? Does that go
in in in a separate JSON file? I am woefully unaware.
For the kritis the sound bites within the RSS feed itself. So
whereas the chapters go on a separate JSON file, okay,
gotcha. sound bites are Yeah, got, which I guess it's kind of
arbitrary. The sound bytes could be in the
notes file. Well, I mean, the reason why and, and this is kind
of an anomaly overall. And this is something started a long,
long time ago, in podcasting, I, I've always come from a life to
tape perspective, like I've and that's just because I've done
radio. And that's the kind of the nature of it. I've done tons
of pre recorded stuff, but I've always found if you do it live,
it's best. And you can always fix something. But because of
the lack of really good studio tools, and I tried, I tried that
was a failed venture. For me, I really tried to put something in
the marketplace that would make it apparent and easy for
everybody. Because what we wound up with is an entire generation
of podcast producers, who were sitting there kind of like, you
know, Phil Spector wall of sound with 29 tracks and like, Okay,
I've got everything, and it's all of this thing done. Post,
which then also, since you're doing that, anyway, gives you
the opportunity to, you know, to do post and do chapters and do
get your transcripts up and running. And, you know, get your
sound bites selected before you publish. And for me personally,
but I think for a lot of timely content, especially if it's
long, the idea of that being dynamic is pretty important. And
so sound clips from being selected before I publish the
RSS feed is always going to be a problem for me. Does that make
any sense?
I'm not sure I'm following you saying that before? Yes, sir.
The sound bites are put in the RSS feed.
No, that's the that's the point. It's like, I need to get the
show out. Before I have time to do all of that stuff, because it
would extend the time between recording and production by at
least another three hours. So for someone Someone has to go
back and say, Okay, here's the here's the chapter, here's a
soundbite. Here's the events, a lot of that's true post
production of the of the end product. And for me, I love the
dynamic nature. So I can say to the community or designate
certain people like Dred Scott, and say, okay, you just do those
chapters, and they'll show up when they show up. And as long
as he's listening a little bit faster than everyone else,
they'll kind of catch up. And this then this works almost
everywhere. Not in breeze, interestingly, because, you
know, it's like, oh, we just thought we'd cash that shit and
it'd be fine and your episode art doesn't work there. There's
all these little nuances that that make it kind of a
Challenge. So it's nothing wrong. It's just it's harder for
me to take advantage of it.
Yes, that's what I thought. That's what I thought about pod
verse with the sound bites. Is it lined up perfectly with what
y'all are doing? because y'all are almost like the soundbite
that that you're the soundbite repository. You know, like there
could be, because you could put eggs, because what you're saying
is like the dynamic nature of chapters where you can just
throw a fall out there, and then it can be slowly built over
time. Yeah. After publishing. Yeah, is beautiful. And then,
but then you have like, the sound bites. If they have to be
in their public publish time, that puts the job back on you
and the community can do it correct. Yeah. I wonder, you
know, and that, that makes me think, okay, that the sound
bites? If I'm not mistaken. Didn't Benjamin Bellamy put that
into his recommendation thing?
Because that could be, I think the sound I think the
recommendation tech can handle those sound buys. And that is an
external, you know, piece of data, which is interesting,
because now it comes back to something I didn't understand in
the beginning, which Daniel J. Lewis was saying, with a j
stands for JSON. was saying, We need a metadata file. And now
I'm slowly starting to see the issue.
Yeah, not that. I'm gonna start sure to say into Daniel J. Lewis
was right. Yeah, please, careful. Because I don't want to
get I mean, I don't want to go that far. No. I think the I
think it makes sense, though. I mean, he, you know, the chapters
really could become that metadata file. I think it will.
Eventually anyway, because we're putting location and stuff in
there that this time around. We're gonna say, Mitch,
I was gonna say that I can see a use case for sound bites also
being updated after Yeah, after the episode goes live,
especially when you integrate community chapters, which could
also be community sound bites. You know, your source. I
mean, I mean, totally, because, what, what some people find
funny sometimes, like, Oh, I gotta send this clip, I'd love
to clip this is not necessarily something that I might find
funny. And, and, and I think the, the, not when it comes to
humor, but a great example is c span, you go to C span.org. You
can make clips of their clips. And man, that is handy. And it
just shows up there. You know, here's this full video for our
hearing. But then people have gone in there said oh, I here's
the bit where we're this guy says this thing. And it's and of
course, they also have searchable transcripts. Hello, I
love that feature on pod friend. These things are all little
little bits that just make it such a better experience.
are y'all doing transcripts? Mitch, now he's
on nice to come in next. Right.
coming next you have value and transcripts for April.
Are you distracted?
Are you considering a search of the transcript?
Yes, definitely. I think it was the you know, the time coded
search fits really well with clips. No, see, there's
another external file, right. That's another thing that that
we use externally. That's another thing because it takes a
good it's almost one to one with AI text transcription.
Yeah, I think that those those sort of cloud based things that
come later, those are, those are really powerful. Because I think
this with the sound, the original idea of sound bites is
that it was always going to be the podcaster who was in control
of it. But he know what is interesting. The one one thing
we're finding out with the whole podcasting 2.0 you know, motion
here is that this stuff is actually way more powerful when
you let give up a little bit of control, and give it to you, you
can retain that control if you want you got a guy like john
cigi which I'm going to plug his causality podcast again that
they taught
us very, and it's got value tag enabled. I was gonna value
block. Oh,
yeah, boosting boost that thing like crazy.
I've already spent I think 30 bucks in three days boosting
making it rain.
I'm doing the same thing. I went up I ran must face dry. And then
when breeze came out, I've almost run it dry.
I ran my Sphinx dry. That's that's a slogan right there.
So I get, you know, I'm thinking, you know, podcasts
like that, you know, he he's just a guy that wants to control
everything. So he wants he and he it fits with his podcast.
Sure. Exactly. Now he he's doing these long complicated in depth
things where He's got like 20 pages of show notes and he's
walking through details of help somebody increment a variable
and rolled over because it was a word instead of a D word. And
they went, they went over to 56. And Oh, damn, Jennifer,
we need a hot math talk jingle now.
assembly language Yeah.
Are you still here? Did you leave us? Did you just like,
fuck these guys? I'm gone.
No. He's looking at his college course catalog for more. Now,
but you get a gala. You know, like that he's doing he's
controlling every part of his podcast. He's an engineer. But
then you get, you know, like you You know, you're a radio guy
love guy. And this was like, shoot, man. I'm just gonna do
this thing live and then I'm gonna let the community take
control. Right like you got both you got both aspects.
Both it's both ends of the spectrum. Sure.
Yeah, it's killer. Yeah. I got I got clips. Oh, I got a couple
clips. You wanna? Yes. You want to listen to play? which one I
want to do first? Let's do let's do the one that brought of
London set. Okay, it's free. I want to call it like BBC some.
The price of song.
Yeah, that's it. Okay.
This can be the year of the song. I think things will happen
this year, the year in which songs are traded alongside gold
and oil premium assets on the stock market, the year in which
songs continue to drive the music biz boom, creating huge
profits for the record companies and the streaming services like
Amazon, Apple and Spotify. But can 2021 also be the year in
which the Songwriters themselves secure a more equitable
renumeration for their work beyond our various knows all
about heads, but he's recently become president of CSAC, the
global confederation of authors and composers like many who
wants a better royalty deal for songwriters. And with the
technology by which we hear music evolving rapidly, beyond
once changes to the way in which our subscriptions to the
streaming services are distributed as royalty payments,
I want my subscriptions to go to the people I play. I think
that's very natural. I mean, when you bought CDs you didn't
buy CDs from Also, if you want that CD, you have to buy that
one, that one, that one and that one too. It was never like that.
But with us centric. And it is technically possible. I'm
absolutely certain that with that. You could be a niche
artist with 2000 3000 loyal followers. And if they pay you,
you get all their subscriptions, which means that you actually
could live off that. But as it is now, it all goes to those
mega artists who have billions of clicks. And that's one thing
we could change
those mega artists that you're referring to include Abba,
you're benefiting from that system at the moment, I guess.
Yes.
That's a great clip. Clip. Did you see that brain fart I had
this morning,
which one?
I was thinking years and years years ago, we set up something
called the pod safe music network. And the idea that and
the idea was and it was it was part of a pod show. But we
bought podcast alley, I think we acquired them. And so the guy
who was running that he took over and did a very good job
with the podcast podsafe music network. And what it was is as
long as it was your material, as you owned it, we had a license
and you signed the license. And the agreement was you make this,
you provide this for podcasters to play in this show, with the
promise that they will report back to you in what show they
played it and any other statistics moving forward or
whatever. And we actually got some, like older musicians who
owned some different material they owned outright and they
were putting it up there. But of course, the value of just a bit
of exposure on podcast wasn't very satisfactory. And I was
thinking if we had a similar type of setup, this is what
podcast index, in essence outside of the decentralization
of the information was set up to do is to take out the Performing
Rights Organizations to Remove these big black boxes, where
your songs played on the radio. And 48 months later, a penny
drips out the other end, you know, forget about the
streaming, that's all the record companies, they get most of that
money. That's that's a, it's a complete joke. They own
significant stakes in Spotify. I mean, that's, it's it's really a
cartel if you ask me. So the idea would be, if you have if
you play a song or a number of songs, I get 100 songs on your
show, you put in the value block splits and sub splits. So there
should be a band block. And that band block has its own
subdivision, amongst the bass player, the singer, the
composer, the writer could be the same people. And then each
payment piece goes to the podcast, and then whatever split
you determine, goes to the individuals who just like a
producer of that actual podcast, you could send that split to the
band to the band block.
Yeah, that said that. Did you see that thing that? That I
tweeted yesterday of listening to the lightning music store?
Oh, yeah. Wait, isn't that um, that is that a an app that they
made for Sphinx?
That's no, that's a breeze. I was listening to that on breeze.
So lightning lightning dot. Where's this? URL? Lightning
does store the
name is Sam. Oh, it's in there. Oh, it's in their marketplace?
What apps, their app sections what it's called, I guess?
Well, if you if you go into breeze and just search for a
podcast called lightning music store.
Oh, hold on a second. I misunderstood
yet. Interesting that that is essential. That is essentially
an album of music in podcast form. And it's it's good music.
And um, it just don't. I helped him get on get his.
Oh, my goodness, this is great.
Yeah, helping get his podcasts listed. And I started listening
to it. And I was like, Oh, well, I'm listening to an album in
breeze and he's getting sets.
So here's the guy that we need to know another example of how
we need to be able to do the splits outside of the RSS feed,
obviously, because that's going to be a while.
Yeah, I mean, like that. So I'm thinking stuff like this makes a
thing like pod verse. like super beneficial. Because you have
like, if people start doing music, if they start doing
albums as podcasts, oh,
man,
bunion you talk about having like clips mid Yeah,
talk to us, bro.
I love the idea of, you know, direct artists to audience
connection, cut out the middleman and process the
payments directly. I think that'd be great. And there is
absolutely the possibility to take music into podcasting as
well. Who knows what's possible with RSS feeds? Alone? Like?
Yeah,
we'd love to be able to support, you
know, in regards to this, and I know he's listening my my
friend, but my partner Mo, Mo facts show. And that's the title
for today's podcast in 2.0 board meeting, he saw he saw the Max
Keiser, and Stacy Herbert bit. Yesterday they were talking
about about podcasting. 2.0. And, well, you know, everyone's
all over the map, you know, it's a it's breeze, it's shrinks.
It's the shrinks model. It's the breeze network and whatever it
doesn't doesn't really matter that that doesn't matter that
much. And Moe all of a sudden that clicked. And we text
regularly during the week. And he says, Oh my god, I get it.
This is your RSS feed is your ticket to freedom that is your
that is that is you. You send out the value through your feed
comes back through through the lightning network. And he said
you are truly digital Ave abolitionists and had to think
about it for a second. You know, I was like, because it's a
really weighted word, particularly coming from Moe.
And like, he said, what I believed him to be saying is we
are helping people out of the digital slavery getting in in
the digital world, but taking away from the digital slavery
that exists within that world. And did you clip that from the
orange pill that bit that Max was talking about the business
model of the Silicon Valley? I was while I was trying not to be
distracted by the crazy get up that Max was wearing
the white hair on the shades?
Yes, I did.
You know when you have, I don't know 1000 or 10,000 Bitcoin or
100,000 Bitcoin in, in cold storage somewhere, anywhere,
whatever you want. This was and and I really appreciate what
they did, because they understand exactly the overall
concept and there's a lot of weeds that the People are wading
through. So what's happening here? But they really got it. So
I'll play this.
Yeah, it's Adam Curry, the prod father is really relaunched.
He's the re repop. Launching podcasting to point out, this is
the newest thing, he's totally got some fantastic product up
there and running in your streaming sets, you know, then I
can see on my, my Twitter feed that the podcasters and
everybody are taking this immediately, it's got traction
instantaneously. And, you know, lasers can stream sets to to the
creators and start off at the de minimis level of, I think, five
cents an hour or something like that. And you can you pick and
choose. And this is going to really challenge the current
market, the current status of social media is everyone gives
all the people in Silicon Valley all have their talent for free,
and they get nothing. That model is ripe for disruption. Looks
like Adam Curry has sorted it and he figured it out. He said,
Wait a minute, why don't we actually have a two way exchange
so that creators and consumers have a market? And let's get rid
of all these gatekeepers and pirates, with these social media
sites? And that's what he's done.
crack me up. I mean, it's so true. It's such a boil that
down. So Silicon Valley, social medias, like it gives them
everything you get nothing.
That's their business model is
the business model is beautiful. Yeah. Now there was a good
question posed. And I want to get Mitchell's opinion on this
by Stephen Bell, on the mastodon. Now, how the how the
developers are feeling about diving into lightning network,
do in some hybrid models like the Ellen pay, which I think
you're implementing? Mitch, it's, you know, there's,
there's, you know, who was holding what, and who's
responsible for what? And his question I think was really
good. It's like, hey, how do all you guys feel about it? What
what you know, and there were some interesting answers. And
I'd love to hear your take on it, Mitch.
Yeah. At a high level, it's not that difficult. It makes sense
that what I have had trickiness is just setting up a node
personally. But if that could be offloaded to a third party
service, you know, we're just putting small sums of money in
then that problem would be solved immediately. So I'm
impressed by how easy it seems to be to be able to make this
work within the Bitcoin lightning network.
Nice. And this, I wanted to mention satoshis stream satoshis
dot stream?
Well, you're gonna tell me what this is. Because Yeah, I've just
been not being I have not understood like, I've been in
and out so much. I haven't even figured out what this is.
Well, so there's two things to this. And then we all the
podcast index crew had a fun experience with one side this
morning, as we start to kind of meld these two worlds together.
So as we'll discuss in a moment, the the lightning Bitcoin
network, people and developers don't know much about podcasting
development and what that means and what users and creators
expect. So simultaneously, it's very complex for people who
really understand podcasting to get their hands quickly around
the notion of how lightning and Greven crypto in general works.
It's counterintuitive. And because of its anonymity and
decentralization, the typical way someone pays you is you send
them an invoice first, this is not Venmo Venmo feels very
differently. And so you know, you have people solving that
problem in those ways. But to set up a node is and there will
be podcaster nodes, that's an offering Brees is going to be
doing. And I believe it'll just be on the same breeze app they
have in their payment structure. They have information coming
through show show name, Episode, name, I think and then was it a
stream or was it a boost. So they will have some reporting
then and that functionality I think will also be available
outside of outside of the breeze app for you. So you can connect
your any any wallet or anything to it. But what Satoshi stream
is doing is a bunch of and I think these are all Dutch
people. And if you look at the the bubble chart, which I'll put
in the show notes, you can see that I think it's lightning
watch is a pretty big node in the network that's theirs. And
so they have a little community on telegram and they've set up a
node with Uncle Jim and Uncle Jim. No
No,
we met your racist.
How about
let's use a Dutch name instead of Jim. Oh use uncle young uncle
young node j n
non non racist.
This is not non racist, unless it's black paper, black.
Alright, so they set up a Black Pete node. And in the end, so
you have a little private I think a virtual node within
there, but you control it completely with telegram
commands. And and what they're doing is they're saying come
over here, we'll help you understand how node works. And
we'll immediately and here's the path, you know, come over here,
then go to podcast or wallet COMM And then we will help you
understand how it works. And you know, it's a complete custodial
service, they hold the keys, anything can go wrong. But the
point is, once you get it working, you can you know,
transfer your money out whenever you want to another wallet back
to your and your own breeze, wallet, whatever it is. But once
you have an understanding, then you can take that knowledge and
set up your own note at home where we will know what to look
for if you're getting one from one of the multiple vendors. So
it's it's a it's an it's a community, right? So there's
people sitting there all day and night, ready to help you out.
It's training wheels,
it's Yes, it's Thank you. It's the Satoshi stream training
wheels precisely. And it's also it's also kind of just fun to
interact with your node that way. Just like you know, like a
command line that you couldn't control from, from your telegram
app.
The node seems like the most complex piece to get people on
boarded with. So if that can be offloaded to a third party, that
would be awesome. Like for pod versus plan, we're going to
integrate with Ellen pay, which simplifies the whole process to
go through their API. But it would be awesome if breeze has
some sort of external integration possibility where
the user can just like, log in with their breeze wallet and
connected to pod verse and then make use of our additional
podcast app features while using the breeze wallet protocols and
the process. Oh, say that again?
Say again, we kind of want to make sure I understand. Well,
I imagine if if breeze, if you said that they're going to
handle the node for an individual
while the node for the proton Well, for podcaster
or a podcaster? Well, I was thinking in my head that if for
a new user, perhaps breeze would have a fully functioning
lightning node, user experience it well.
So for what we're doing, they indeed have done something
quite, seemingly quite impossible. They have moved
pretty much the entire node, you do have a full node in your
pocket, you can address it as even a command line under the
developers menu, you can do all your lncc li commands. But it's
not fully yours because they manage the channels for you. And
they take care of making sure that that's funded so that you
actually don't have to worry about it. And because and when
it's online, and they have a very smart algorithmic payment
storage system. So even stuff you've listened to offline or if
a node may not be available, temporary, temporarily or a
route, he will store that. Or it will store it until the network
fees are the acceptable ratio to send because he's all very low
amounts, you don't want to be paying the same amount of fees
as the payment itself. And but receiving is is almost
impossible on a mobile on a mobile app, which is why you I
think what they're doing is you can have your, your podcast or
node connected to your existing app as a podcaster. So that you
can use that to receive. But I don't think you can tap into the
mobile wallet to use it for other podcast apps if that's
what you're asking.
Okay, gotcha. Well, yeah, that would be ideal from our
perspective. I mean, we would love to add any crypto
processing features we can within the app, but you know,
our primary focus is to make the best podcast listening
experience. So of course, leverage other people's
resources and, you know, connect our apps in a meaningful way
that would be ideal from our perspective,
you know, go ahead,
no, no, please go.
You know, I think I think one thing that may be interesting to
talk about here is the fact that you know, what, everybody needs
to get a piece of of the so to speak, when it comes to this
sort of new paradigm. And it's not just the podcasters. But you
know, what we've talked about from day one is that pot the
podcaster? They Yeah, they'll get the lion's share, because
they create the content, that all down the chain, there's
other people adding value. Exactly. There's the ad, there's
the the app that you listen to it on. There's the hosting
company. There's analytics people, there's people like,
there's the services like pod verse, which have, which offer
sort of the tangential service of clipping and other value add
things on top of a podcast. And so like, any way that did a
service, like pod verse, can sort of attach itself to that
value chain, to me is not only legitimate, but necessary,
correctly. So if you have, and, and I guess the way that would
that would play itself out is, you know, when I go to pay for
pod verse, but when I go to pod verse, and I make a clip, like I
did yesterday, last night, you know, there's, there's the
aspect of, I'm a, I'm a paying customer, but then also, that
the clip the Creator, when I, when I clip that there's
probably there needs to be some other way where the podcaster
can get the value when people listen to that clip. And at the
same time,
parsers compression a percentage? And how about the
person who created the clip gets a piece?
Yeah. Yeah, like your throat? There's, you're throwing that
back? Right?
multiple, multiple ways. Yeah. So this is where it gets very,
very beautiful. And this is the gap that I'm trying to close.
Let me see if I can tackle this. So we had, I had a very nice
chat with Roy at breeze this morning. And we both apologize
to each other. It was interesting. He said, Adam, I
apologize. I did not think it all the way through what kind of
users I would be encountering by entering the podcast space. He
says, I completely am familiar and comfortable with the
lightning and Bitcoin space. And, you know, there's all my
god, you know, there's a whole global banking system that is
against people like, like breeze and swings, you know, they don't
like it at all. But he said, You know, I'm really, I'm struggling
with a whole bunch of things. And I said, Oh, my God, I'm
sorry, I didn't prepare you. And so here's an example. There was
a podcast, that additive value block popped up. And Roy got an
you know, a couple of emails and some posts and people saying,
you know, why is that filth being shown? And that now, you
know, the way Brees has it set up is they're only surfacing
podcast with value blocks that we talked about. So this is
someone's like, oh, cool, I'm going to be an early adopter,
I'm going to jump in there. And you know, that, that just the
sight of that person's name is can be triggering to some
people. And he didn't know how to handle it. And he literally
said, I'm looking for guidance, because I don't know, what do I
do? I mean, I said, Well, you know, what we what we can't do?
He said, yeah, we can't censor say we can't block. You know,
we're, that's we won't do that. In fact, we had an internal pre
board meeting. And, you know, we said this, like three reasons
something would be taken off. One was for security or safety
of the index itself, if someone's hacking spamming, etc.
and two is if it's a, like a legal, valid legal takedown by
some legal entity in jurist jurisdiction or a DMCA, so the
copyright violation, and there's no Step three, it's those two,
that's it. And so at the same time, I'm like, you know what,
let me just give you a couple other things. And then I
apologize because I was so excited about getting podcasting
working with lightning that I overlooked Well, they already
did one thing they they got chapters they put chapters in
from the launch fantastic, but didn't understand the dynamic
nature. So if you look at the no agenda, part even this one, I'm
sure when it's published, it'll say you know, help create
chapters at at hypercasual calm and because they cache it, and
it still has the same image for from two shows ago. It doesn't
matter with peace with the podcasting 2.0 but it does with
no agenda, because they're caching it so it's just stuff he
didn't know. He had no idea and for us it's second nature right?
We're like Ah, now he got the two times speed but what what do
I see in the telegram group, so it comes in? Well, we need to
have three times three times speed playback three times. Oh,
my God, what kind of drugs is this girl and
enjoys like what we have two times Yeah. But if you go to
antenna pod and you hold down, you can customize it to three
side three times fate. Thank you very, very, very excited about
the whole thing.
Yeah, Betty was.
So what's all these little nuances, you know? And so I'm
like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a little hitlist for you.
So what we're seeing here is the two worlds not not understanding
enough about each other right now. Because the things that
you're saying, Mitch, holy crap. I mean, how, and also Dave, what
you just said, if you put that all together, and you have
within, let's just say for argument's sake, virtually, my
my pod verse app is a wallet at the same time, just like breeze.
Think of all the crazy shit you can do, then you because then I
am receiving me, for the work I'm doing on that app, it
becomes highly interactive. Because I create a clip, the
clip goes out there, I promote the clip, the clip gets played,
the app gets a piece, the podcaster gets a piece and I get
a piece. Now that now now as as my friend in Alabama would say
you're cooking with gas.
sounds incredible to me. Yeah. I'd say since we're a free and
open source project, that it would be a perfect fit with our,
with what we're doing here. Because we're our priorities are
not fundamentally to make as much money as possible, but to
deliver the most value to our users and the podcasters. So and
the clip creators themselves, because they're content
creators. So yeah, I think it would fit in perfectly. Yeah,
man,
I can I can just imagine, like the army of clip creators that
would come and show up and like feeding clips directly to shows
like no agenda. But if they knew that they could share in the
value of that, of creating that.
So here's what we need. And I don't I mean, lm Putin was great
LMP he has a whole business there. So this is new, and he
has to make his own evaluations. And by the way, he's been super
helpful. We had a routing routing problem for some of the
breeze payments to swings. And, and I spent at least six hours
yesterday, with all three parties, including Graham at
voltage trying to figure out why some payments were failing. And
we could see that the routes were just not there. So I sent
him a message say, Yo, I see you got a channel from from breeze,
can you route to the swings, notice he had no problem. Boom,
there you go. Look at the bubble graph, you can see, you can see
that he's almost the gateway for breeze into the network. I mean,
it's it's phenomenal. So what we need
is, that's like it. Tim is like the most unassuming guy ever.
Loving. He's like the most chill dude. But he's also he's the set
this guy's deceptively intelligent.
Exactly. So what we need, I think, Mitch, is we need someone
who has a service, very much like Ellen pay with the app
because Ellen pays taking responsibility because they are
custodial. For for those wallets that that you're using. If Let
me see if I can phrase this right. It says you have an uncle
Yon node situation where which is kind of in between where it's
noncustodial. But you still could get fuck somewhere. So
there's some trust involved in that. But the service would be
here's an API for wallets. But what else do you need? Someone
who's thinking with us? And is because think about the
business? I mean, if I were a younger man, I would be doing
this already. But like, holy shit, I'm setting up nodes. I'm
providing this. I'm building API's for podcast apps, because
we're never going to get those to me. So right now, anyone
who's in the wallet business has a very rich API to do stuff with
we the index has created so much value there. But we don't have
is the counterparty on the node back end infrastructure
business, who can provide that service with, you know, thinking
with us going Oh, shit, okay, you need an API. So we can
somehow do these clips and get and get the person who's using
the app paid as well hold my beer. That's what I'm that's
what we're looking for.
Yeah, if somebody wanted to take on that challenge, I mean, it
would be fair for us to include a split of the value payments to
them for integrating allowing us to integrate with their
technology,
of course, and I think that and by the way, that's the beauty of
this community, everybody gets paid. If you don't get paid,
this is not going to happen. It's not going to work. And
since we're dealing with literal payments of you know, 1,000th of
a cent. It works out quite well over time. So Satoshi stream
that Take 1%, I think when you transfer your money out of their
wallet, so they make a little bit so they get a little bit,
they get a little fee.
And that's why I like seeing this. I like seeing these
payment models sort of emerge is because the the 1%, when you
take stuff out seems to be becoming a standard from from
what I've seen. Yeah, I
think that's what Tim is doing to at LMP.
Yeah, as far as if, if I understood him, right. He
doesn't take any, any cut until you transfer it to transfer
it out. Which makes sense.
Yeah, that seems like a totally fair thing that makes makes a
lot of sense. It's like a, Nick, because we, when we first talked
to him, he was like, we're like, why are you gonna make money?
He's like, I don't know.
Well, I'm looking at breeze. And you know, and they've been very
clear. And I love that they're very transparent. And they show
you right up front, we're taking 5%. And if you if you go look at
their documentation, they say, and here's why. And Holy crap,
they're doing a lot for you. They're really doing a lot and
they're making money. So Mitch, I know you're doing this to
primarily for a great podcast experience. I think, I think you
should be able to make a living off of this.
Yeah, that's the dream. It's not our top priority. It's we're
trying to deliver value first and then monetize later. But it
you know, we're going to explore this direction with the value
tag, and have other open ended donation features, maybe come up
with some reward tiers for memberships and stuff like that.
But yeah, we're going to focus on innovating first, and growing
our user base before we really try to figure out the
monetization angle because at this current time, it's it's not
overwhelming for our expenses to to support this as it is,
what do you do in? Is this your full time? Your full time job?
Or do you do something else? full time? Oh, no.
I have a full time job. Yeah, I'm a I'm a software engineer
for a company in my day job doing mostly front end
engineering.
I love that. I don't think there's nothing anyone has. Has.
This
is full time. Yeah, that's one of the that's been one of the
coolest things about this whole project is everybody has mean
everybody has day jobs. And everybody's doing this thing on
the side, just out of the love of, of wanting to get it done.
You know, that that's been one of the most rewarding things
about this whole project so far, is seeing everybody just like
taking their side passion and applying it to this whole thing.
It's been it's been really cool. Yeah, I'd
love to be working on this for more hours in the day.
Unfortunately, you know, but, you know, having a day job also
takes some of the heat off needing to, like, urgently make
money. So
well, the idea here is we want to make a magic money machine
for everybody. You know, and, and my experience so far in what
we've had satoshis flowing for almost four months now. Is it is
I mean, and four months with a full month of like, wow, 60
bucks, but seeing that payment come in, just you know, three
satoshis, five, satoshis, 19, satoshis, 20, satoshis, it gives
me such a great feeling, because I know that someone is listening
to me at that very moment. Yeah, and in a value it
with it. And so, you know, like our, our goal is what if we
could, with the 1% on the index was funded, if we can just fund
it, if we can make it self sustaining, to where we don't
have to wear it covers the hosting costs and everything
every month. That means success on the broader scale to because
like, if if we're if our hosting fees are 350 to $400 a month, at
1%. That may mean think about how much money is flowing
through the entire system. If because that's that's the other
thing that people don't maybe not realize they get, it's a
little easy to get confused whether to get podcast or
wallet, and you get all this kind of stuff. And it looks like
everything's going through the index. But the value block is
not tied to the index, it's completely open source. So
anybody can create can essentially do the exact same
thing we're doing, nobody needs us in order to get paid. So if
you if you take whatever percentage of the total value
flow is, is us, and then take 1% of that. And if that is enough
to cover our bills, one of these days, think about how much money
that is actually flowing through the whole broader ecosystem. I
mean, it could be hundreds of 1000s of dollars, flow, you
know, flowing through the broader system at that point. So
if we ever actually get to the point where where our 1% is care
is covering our costs Man that for the broader system as a
whole and broader goals, that is a total success. Well, that
mean, that means lots of money is flowing and lots of people
are quitting their day job,
it would be it would be probably only 5x what we're doing now.
That would be what our bills like. 380 I'm just trying to
remember that it's like 380 495. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean, right now, login. But I think I mean, I don't have
enough data. But I saw a $4 day for the index.
Yeah. So I told my wife, I was like, I was like, oh, Adam said,
we had $4. And the other day, she was like, Oh,
I know. Like, I got $17.85. She's like, Honey, I'm so happy
for you. What? What,
what is that all about?
I'm like, No, you gotta, you gotta see the big vision. It's,
I tried to save it. I was $4 that didn't exist before.
You say it's made out of thin air. I mean, I've actually, I've
actually got, I've now just resorted to tracking satoshis
it's ridiculous to do it based on the conversion with the
volatility of the price. So I just do it on satoshis. But so
if you do that time, send us 1200 bucks a month. So we just
funded the operation. If you if you do it by, you know, by 5x. I
mean, this is gonna go very fast. I am, I am in fact, almost
speechless.
speechless yourself.
Yeah. I mean, that's serious money. Any, any, any app
participating in this can get up to those numbers, I think pretty
quickly.
That's what I'm saying. Like, if you have, you know, like, like,
you know, met, you're talking about, you know, well, you know,
we we just want the biggest sounds like my house is about to
fall down. Yeah.
Does.
Somebody read about me, they, you know, you say you will, you
know, we're, we're focused on, you know, growing user base, and
that and that kind of thing and making them more valuable
product. And that's, you know, this, the beauty of a thing like
this is that it can happen, or it happens organically.
Thank you. This is and this is what people are missing. And
developers miss it all the time. The whole advertising world
wants to get their messages into podcasting. Why is that? Because
the communication between the audience and the podcaster is
very tight and very loyal. When you and this is my experience
for seven to almost 20 years. When you have an audience that
you can that you communicate with. What happens is, and this
just happened the other day, someone hears Oh, lightning,
Bitcoin, podcasting. 2.0 my god, I'm using it. Hey, favorite
podcast are 1234 and five are tweeting you on Twitter send you
emails, you should get on board with this go look at my
timeline, it's filled with people telling their favorite
podcasters that they should jump on this bandwagon right away. It
is the best marketing tool known to man right now, as far as I'm
concerned, as long as it really is in the interest of those
podcasters. And listeners, they do it. And that's going to work
very well.
I agree that the fact that it's the value tag is taking off so
quickly. And we're seeing so many articles and people talking
about it. I mean, it like you said to do it organically, like
it's just next up in our queue, because the demand is there
right now. So that's what we're gonna focus. Yes,
you know, that I was thinking about it, because what made me
kind of go down that road, Mitch, was that you were talking
to, you mentioned a few times about open source software and
how you just that seems to be really near and dear to your
heart. And the problem with open source, you know, the there has
always been there. Is that, that age old issue of you know, was
it the XKCD comic where you got the whole internet is like
visualized, as you know, as this huge stack of you know,
furniture on top of this one little, some little dudes
project in rural Indiana somewhere, you know, it's like
the NTP guy, you know, then then the Network Time Protocol guy
that nobody knew that he existed, right and this guy's
been keeping the whole internet running for you know, 25 years.
That's that's the that's been the age old problem with with
such valuable open source projects is that they never
produce the they never produce A equivalent value for the people
involved in. And it's not just financial, you know, we do open
source stuff. And that's why, you know, we put all of our open
source stuff on the index. We do it for the love of the code and
the product. But then you also there comes this point where
you, where you, inevitably you're gonna have burnout. And
if there's not something there to just keep the bills paid for
your project. It really it just becomes onerous. And the risk is
always that that thing is going to fail. Because you just can't,
eventually somebody is always going to have a health emergency
or somebody is always going to have a, you know, have to go get
a day job. And there's all these things that can just really come
in and throw a wrecking ball and an open source projects
like having a rock and roll band. really are.
What is that the avoca? Have a guy? Yeah. What's his name?
Bjorn, Bjorn. Yeah, yeah, he's Oh, by the way, he I looked up
his Wikipedia, always billionaire. Did you know, we'll
get a load of this? This is the Guardian called him Sweden's
highest profile cash free campaigner? Yes. explaining that
after his son was robbed several years ago, ovis became an
evangelist for the electronic payment movement, claiming that
cash was the primary cause of crime.
Yeah, he's no friend of mine. Something I wanted to bring up
because I didn't quite finish the issue with the podcast
experience. But I'm interested to hear your take, Mitch. So one
of the issues that came up, as I explained was people not getting
triggered by certain types of content, as you know, the index
is there to provide for all. I actually had a quick back and
forth tweet with Marco from overcast this morning. As
someone said to him, Hey, Marco, do you want to get Are you going
to get it? Are you going to do the podcasting 2.0 payments,
quite frankly, I'd love that if he did anything podcasting 2.0.
And we know that he is very cautious about user feedback,
what they do and do not want to see in his app. And Dave, Eric,
and I were talking this morning about, you know, we'll we're not
going to censor anything. However, we do understand that
certain, first of all, if you make an app, and it's up to you
as to what you're going to show or not, we were thinking it
might be useful to provide a toggle switch, if you only
wanted results, or trending, etc. Where they also exist in
the extremely vetted and safe Apple index. Although they would
still be coming from the podcast index, it would be that subset,
if you only wanted that where you could give your users a
choice. I'm curious about your thoughts, Mitch.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. And we've thought about
similar things like a third party service, basically, that
can be a filtering layer, to control the content that people
want to see. So if something offends you, you can, you don't
have to see it. But at the same time, our freedom of speech
policy, it would be very similar to your own to where we're not
going to censor anything by default, unless there's legal
reasons, basically, or if there's like an imminent threat
related to it. It's just not feasible for us as a small team
on, you know, part time and you can't,
you can't deal with that,
over a million podcasts. There's just there's just no way to do
it. And I'm not sure it's the right thing to do anyway. But so
beyond that, if if people were to take issue with our freedom
of speech policy, I'd say that we have the product is open
source, and you can start your own version of the site and
control the content to your liking. If Yeah, no, that isn't
working for you.
I that's always a good answer. I know. I love that. It would,
would it be helpful for us to provide other filtering tools?
In an AMP? It could be by size by image? It could be anything?
Would it be helpful to have filtering tools built into the
API? I'm speaking on my partner days behalf because he'll build
it? I'm just Yeah,
yeah, I think it would if we could add like a parameter that
would only return let's say what is in the Apple store? Or how
about
a catalog category is also maybe interest, you could actually
literally call Apple Apple a category and you could filter by
that or filter, only if it included that category. And
there's anything you can do we just want to make it easy for
everybody else, so that people can make their own decisions.
And we help them you know, we want we want to provide tools.
Yeah, I think that that will work perfectly. That sounds
good.
Yeah, cuz I'm because you know, the issue was something like
this. And this is what happened with the you know, with breeze.
Whenever you create a new monetization layer level, you
know monetization protocol, the people who have gotten deep
platformed off of other platforms are always going to be
the first ones to jump on board because they they want, they
want another Lifeline into some sort of monetization. And
oftentimes, those are going to be the people who are the most
controversial.
And I guarantee you, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe
next week or next month, Alex Jones is going to pop up my
guarantee, I can guarantee you.
Yeah, and so you've got to be prepared and say, Well, okay,
we're not going to take those people off. But each individual
app can make that choice on their own. Because they know
their customers and their customers may or may not want
that stuff. Yeah, you know, that's the I was actually
listening to a new platform guy the other day. And I never
listened to his stuff before. But I listened to it for the
first time. And just to see what all the hubbub was about, he was
talking about how he got d platformed. Off YouTube. And
then he switched over two, gosh, it was like bitch shoot or
something. And he was like, only 3% of my subscribers followed me
to bitch shoot. And I started thinking, you know, I
wonder if we had that many to start with? Yes,
yes. Yes, exactly. Because the thinking is, if I had a million
subscribers on YouTube, I won't leave, then then and only 3000
of them on bit shoot, then only 3000 of my subscribers left
YouTube and went to bitch shoot. But I don't think that's ever I
don't think that was actually the case. I think that the
million on YouTube was a fake number to begin with. That that
was not a that could not have been a real stat.
Well, there's all the incentive for them to fake these numbers.
I mean, the incentive is there, it will help their their stock
price, the more users are on these platforms. So
yeah, and we know and we know that there's people that are
controversial, and don't get d platformed. And have large user
bases. And those probably are the ones where the numbers are
close to accurate. You know that the other the other people that
do get d platformed. Probably Google's on the backside of that
thing saying oh, okay, yeah, you show me and subscribers, but
we're only really seeing probably 1000 views a week. So
we're just gonna cut you loose. You know, and then and then it
looks like nobody left when there never really had that many
to begin with. The numbers are all phony. You know?
I totally think the numbers are phony and and I saw that the
first time I knew for sure was with the Kony 2012 video, you
should go look that up had like 300 million views in 24 hours
and it wasn't all that good. It was totally bogus. No, that was
the African like, yeah, Warlord guy. Yeah, with the with the
child fighters and the guy who ran that that whole campaign
went insane and wound up, you know, PCP out running around
naked jumping on cars on live TV remote. It was awesome. It was
so cool. But anyway, it's but it's the same thing that
Instagram, I know for a fact that if if you're you're you log
onto your timeline, you're scrolling through it. And then
if you're idle, then you're going to get four likes in a
row. They hold that back to you know, to use as bait to get you
back in it's really quite evil.
Well, that's less. Okay, let's go. That's something we'll do
them we'll put in those. We'll put in that ability to say,
okay, only show me stuff that's on other platforms. You know,
like, I want the safety switch.
I wouldn't even call it safety because that's a that's a
judgment. Okay. I would just say it's the it's the apple switch.
Yep. So you go, this is what Apple does. If if you're
uncomfortable with that. Yeah. What kind of you know, you
should talk to Apple? Yeah, there we are. We are using them
as our fact check of fact check network. Yeah, there was no
we're not using them. We can you can use them. And here's how
that's
a fact check equals true.
I think that sounds great. And there's definitely a need for
it. We have heard from some people. Like, if there's just
alex jones on your platform, doesn't matter what else your
platform is doing or what values you represent. It's enough for
people to just run away. That's
Yeah. That's so amazing. So
there's certain deal breakers so and you know, that's not our
intent. Like we want to give people the freedom to decide for
themselves. We also don't want to put things in front of people
they don't want to hear or
you should give him a trigger mode. You know, it's fine. You
use this. Yeah, like
the guy was talking to a gal was listening to I don't even want
to talk about who was the guy I was listening to the other day.
I mean, like, seriously, like 15 minutes into it. I'm like, this
is not for me. I'm out. No,
I'm not gonna go. I think that guy who got the platform because
it was boring. I don't think it was because of anything
controversial.
I think so too. Yeah,
we need to thank some people.
Yes, yes. Now, anybody now who's listening to this show can
participate by helping us. So crank up those SATs per minute,
hit us with a boost. That is a great way to support podcast
index and all the work that we're doing. You know, the
numbers were transparent is it's right up there up front. We love
that everyone has been supporting us so well,
throughout this project six months running. We have not had
the dip in our own pockets. Once that I'm aware of although I'm a
little confused. I think I've sent millions of satoshis I lost
track up the I don't know you don't don't
even add it up, man.
You're like, Yeah, no, I'm opening channels from the my own
nodes everywhere. I have no idea. I'm like, fuck it. This is
just let's just go make it work. Yeah. So yeah, it's value for
value, any type of any type of value get out of the project
we're doing here. We'd love for you to send it back to his time,
talent, or treasure. And, Mitch, of course, is is is putting in a
lot of the two T's. Then we like thanking everybody who supported
us by going to podcast index.org down at the bottom. We got a big
red Donate button. You can hit us there with with some
cookbooks through PayPal. Or you can also use the lightning
invoice that now I'm channeling my best Marty bent. You can use
the lightning the lightning invoice there. You can send a
bulk amount or a subscription even. Let's thank some of the
people who sent us some treasure for this for this week.
Yeah, Brian Perla sent us $133.
Wow. Yes. Nice magic numbers.
sent over a good note to see. He says hey, gentlemen, hope your
day is filled with nothing but red hot namespace talk. And the
producer of the podcast fiddly. dicking.
fiddly. dicking
Yes. Nice. comedies. Yes. All that one embrace a comedy show
hosted by fathers of children. I'm not sure I guess that's the
company. I'm not sure. We put out a short 10 minute ish
episode of every of every day, every day during the workweek.
And then we can remix of all the weekday shorts mashed together.
For the fans that prefer a long form. Listen, I'll have to have
to listen to them. They have a
they have a value. They have a node they have everything
running. Cool. Yeah,
so I'm on break. I haven't seen them on spring. So I don't think
they have a tribe yet, but I have seen him on breeze says
we've been kicking around different ideas on how to make a
little scratch for our efforts. One thing we all consistently
agree on is refusing, refusing to throw in ADS. Our episodes
are too short and no doubt would kill the comedy mood. Yeah,
that's true. I agree. Yeah, we could not be more excited about
the movement that that you and all the dude named these named
Ben have been putting in the hard work into. And while we
have no business programming any lines of code, we still want to
contribute to the cause. Beyond just treasure, we have other
podcasters promoting their shows by calling into our show, and
goof around with us. We hope to become Satoshi Satoshi streaming
experts and help those podcasters realize the value for
value for value. That's right. I successfully used the word value
three times in a sentence. Suck at ninth grade English teacher,
Miss Haynes. Okay. So while you may consider this as a donation,
we see it as an investment for our long term success to be the
fourth best podcast in the universe. And one final bit of
good news. Both of you are now considered on array honorary
fiddly diggers can Nice. Yeah, because yours Brown.
Italy dicker. I got to look that one up. And I don't
know where he's from. That sounds like a British thing.
Is that a British thing? It should be. Yeah, it sounds like
dicker. Hey, I'll wear it.
I'll wear that badge. I'm
a fifth leader. Hey, yeah, their t shirt.
You shouldn't be.
Let's see. Oh, Benjamin Bellamy. $45.70. See what management
says. He says, huge. Thank you from Casta pod go recommended
podcasts. Benjamin Bellamy
got a lot of good feedback. I got a lot of good feedback from
people on on the show we and the episode we did with with
Benjamin.
Yeah, like
that guy's smart for a French guy.
The backhanded compliment,
nod. That was one that was one of my favorite favorite guests.
Actually, he's very surprising very surprising guy.
And me too. Okay, we get let's see Maui. Good gave us $5 Yeah,
it says in a donation. Adam, thanks for this man, my tech
skills suck. So this is the best way I can help the house to 15
best alfonzo
Thank you Alphonse. So this is what I love so much about value
for value. And it's max Kaiser said, you know, we, we allow a
market to be creative. And that market is driven purely by price
discovery. And so whatever you send us make it meaningful to
you. That's the whole point. You need to feel good about the Hey,
I, you know, I am not all day long now with with breeze, it's
nuts. I'm so conscious of the exchange. When I'm when I'm
listening to a podcast, like I'm listening to pod News. I'm so
conscious. I'm like, Oh, this is this is good. I got no short I
got to be at 500 SATs a minute on this thing. I got a boost in
500. Yeah. And it's it's
if you think about it makes you It makes it conscious.
Yes. What
you're doing? Yes,
yes.
You're no longer just a passive listener. I'm actually thinking,
oh my god, Dave, you're a poet.
philosopher philosophy.
Amongst
legends, here it is. Philosophers make the worst
poets. Probably
I make a mean falafel. But that's about as far as I can
get.
That's it. That's our group. Oh, well, thank
you very much. We appreciate that support. And again, anybody
can go ahead and grab the Sphinx app, you can get the pod station
extension. Or you can use the breeze app, crank those value
sliders, let us know you love us and and send some value back
while you're enjoying the value we stream right into your
cerebral cortex.
I got a couple of things. Again, I got two things once one is for
Mitch and one's for James Cridland James Cridland put pod
land. Yes. All on a value block so that I can pay you for that.
Yeah, me
too. I mean, what? Yeah, perfect. I think he believes he
is up on a value on the value block. Because I i pinged him on
the mastodon. I said, Do you ever check your, your your
wallet, you know? And he said, For pod land? Yeah, I do.
Everything's good. I'm like, No, no, that's something Portland's?
Not there. No, it's what I don't understand is.
Yeah, we got we got Sam Sethi on the show next week. Well, we'll
pound him about that.
Oh, wow. They'll be no pounding on my show.
That's for the safety switch. Turn that off.
Yeah, I would love that. Well, there's a number of shows I
would love to have value streaming. But now you now
there's a way to do it. If you just want to try it with the
training wheels go to ces toesies dot stream. And I just
saw that they now have auto withdrawal. So you have very low
risk of losing anything and what comes into your wallet. I guess
I have to look at it. But you can set it to just send it right
back to your mail to I guess you can just do an invoice it'll do
an invoice or something after maybe something that hits a
certain URL. Yeah. When you withdraw. Yeah, that's cool.
Smart.
The other thing is, I'm going to mention to tell you the same
thing I told David Norman, which is like, I need to be able to
give you more money. Yeah. Like the 10 bucks a year is not
enough.
Well, you're in luck, because
this morning for you.
I remember you saying that. And yeah, I created a Patreon page
this morning, if anybody wants to give beyond the $10 a year
payment right now. So it's okay, cool. patreon.com slash pod
verse. And that's hopefully just the first of many different
awkward, you know, ways that you'll be able to send money our
way.
Okay, good. Because that, you know, when the pod verse is
become quickly became my go to thing for making clips. And so,
because I can share them out so easily. And, like the first
thought is, I mean, it's, it's worth at least 100 bucks a year
to me. I mean, if not more, so. I was like, looking around. I'm
like, Oh my gosh, 10 bucks. That's
a crock pot. Well, thanks, Dave.
Yeah, yeah,
well, it's true. And there's an there's, I'll just reiterate
what I usually say. The VAT value has price discovery of
value has been destroyed by Silicon Valley. And as much as I
appreciate Steve Jobs for what he did for podcasting, I despise
his unbundling of the album. The ruination of album art and liner
notes and the art Officially low pricing according to a value
scale of creative work. It's it's beyond me how people have
put up with this for so long. But as Moe pointed out, it's
it's slavery people are enslaved to this system. The Spotify
record company music industry is one big slave pit. And the same
when the App Store came out, I'm like, holy crap. Look at all
this. I did an app. I did it by myself, called the big app show.
No, you didn't I sure did. I did it in Xcode and everything. And
it was an early days, it was 2008. I think that's called the
big app show, or I commissioned a piece of art for it. And I
did, there's my submission to the App Store. And I had an
android version. And it was way I was way out of my league. But
I understood how much work goes into this. And then to have it
priced at 99 cents, because that's what the market has been
turned into. It's disgusting. Disgusting. And when I hear any
with all, with all love to James Cridland, I keep hearing him
being very excited about the prospect that Apple may allow
for people to subscribe, and in a payment form to podcast. And
he literally said, I would love it, if you could get my whole
season. So let's say that's 10 episodes for $2.99. And I and I
and I hear that and I'm like, No, no, your whole season is
worth $200.
And people
do that for you. And people will gladly pay for an app experience
that they like more. That means I hope that we get a feature for
for, for users to you know, to up their amount for the for the
app they're using mean all of this is price discovery that
we're now going to learn to do together. But it turns out that
not everybody's the cheap asshole that they that they're
thought to be by Silicon Valley. Because that's what Silicon
Valley does. I think they consider their actual customers
as stealing and horrible people.
Yet,
whoa,
whoa, did you kick off your noise gate?
There's a vacuum going on above me nothing. My kids don't
understand I'm doing a podcast.
All right, remind them when it's time for allowance.
I will mute myself.
Well, what these
are? No, these are very exciting times. And hopefully, I mean,
between Bitcoin and lightning network and the value block and
podcasting 2.0 hopefully, we're at a turning point where open
source will actually be able to be monetized in a way that
actually makes sense for the value that it creates.
From from your lips to God's ears, man. Absolutely. And
something else I've noticed with with the, I guess the FOSS free
open source software is, you know, no one's afraid of someone
swooping in and copying it. It's it's somehow is this beautiful
poison pill. Where most like the index, anybody could come in, if
you had a little bit of money and a bit of time or resources
and grab all the code from the index, recreate the index and
build it probably better stronger elsewhere. But no one
does it. Because they know that the value is not just in the
code. It's all the stuff that the people who built the code
learned and how they and how they do stuff. So Sphinx is open
source breeze is open source, anybody can recreate In fact,
breeze use an open source player that already was podcasting. 2.0
aware and compatible.
Now Yeah, the any is at anytime, player
anytime player. Yeah. You know this. And I have no idea if
they're getting a piece of that or not. And I guess they don't
have to it's under MIT license. But it's so beautiful to see
that. That it's kind of this protection airy measure because
the smart people go like that's what they're doing. I'm happy I
can look into the code, should I need to change something or if
there's something I don't like or want differently or want to
suggest? simultaneously, Silicon Valley doesn't want to touch it
because they can't own it. They can't own it. They can lock
people in with it.
Yeah, that's the good. That's what Max said the Silicon Valley
model is you give us everything and we give you nothing.
exactly what it is. Mitch. Is there anything else we can do
for you? Do you have something on your wish list is there I
mean, it can be anything. We'd love to hear what we can improve
make better for you or go beg, steal or borrow.
Oh boy. Not at the top of mine. I mean, there's all kinds of
features, but I can save it for another day. For longer
discussion, don't
say, No.
You got features we want to hear features.
Um,
well, there was one topic that I thought was pretty cool. You
brought up a couple weeks ago about live chats. And yes, and I
guess thinking for this is kind of a big topic I can't really
cover but just to move more towards the ability to be like a
twitch alternative, where if there's a live stream feature,
that it could be accessible through an R SS feed, and also
have live chats that are decentralized. And also possibly
what I've been calling super chats on the blockchain. So
there's the these things that if you're not familiar on YouTube,
people can submit comments along with some money with the
comment. And then usually the live streamer will read whoever
like submitted the super chats that with the most money
attached to it. And you were talking couple of weeks ago
about doing that with crypto. And I can just see there being a
big market for that. And also, what's cool is, so you could
have the live stream that where you have the Live Super chats.
But then you can also have super chats that are applied to the
recorded file, where I'm not listening live, but I met, you
know, minute 33. And I decided I want to share a comment there
and I send a payment with it. And then that comment will be
available for every podcast app to render, they choose to do so.
And and yeah, and that could be like an ongoing way for
podcasters to monetize their old comment content.
I love this idea. It is Moe has been hammering this into my head
for a long he in fact, he alerted me about clubhouse A
long time ago. He said they're paying black creators, so people
are gonna move over there and something cool, but it'll
probably get ruined and he was Nostradamus. But he's a total
YouTuber. That's what he was doing before we met each other
and started doing a podcast. He understands YouTube inside it
out. And exactly what you said Mitch is like the live
streamers, they, if it's a Super Chat, that's the ones that they
respond to. That's the one that said that talking about. So I'm
very excited. From what I've seen the alternative enclosure,
it looks like there's work being done on making that a live
stream. So that the way I understand that is the RSS feed
is published. Within whatever time you get an alert, it's
updated. You click it you're you're now hitting the live
streams that have the enclosure. regard it be going yeah,
that's that's no, that's. Yeah, that's the current thinking. And
so there's so that is, I don't think we can do that into the
next phase. But like I'm thinking, you know, it may be a
phase or two down the road, because it's so complicated to
get that right. If you don't get it right, it can be a disaster.
Yeah.
So simultaneously, and I'll tell you now that Brees is
considering building exactly what you said, they're building
the distributed chat. And they've looked at the Sphinx
relay, the way they do tribes, they find that it's that's not
the approach that they that they would take. And I'm not saying
they're doing it, but I'm certainly pressuring for someone
to do something. But the idea would be very simple, you know,
one Satoshi per message, but you can. So the the Satoshi becomes
the carrier, and the message is in the payload. And that because
it's blockchain, it can be synced against timecode. And you
can do exactly what you said you can have a live chat, but then
the recorded version could have those comments. And your
comments added to it in the timeline is it plays back it
were a ways off from that, but I think that will happen.
Awesome. I, I would like people to be able to think beyond
podcasting as just these audio, you know, basically radio shows
in your pocket and realize that any form of media is pretty much
possible through this format.
Oh, and the only problem Mitch, the only reason why video is not
prevalent in podcasting is because of the cost. YouTube
solve the storage and bandwidth issue by running definite
deficit finance, they're losing money on that. Yeah, they're
losing tons of money on that, probably even with the
advertising for most of the for most of his existence. So, you
know, you log into a blueberry and you get, you know, 250 gigs,
megabytes, or whatever it is, you know, but it cost more. And,
you know, if you send a, you know, no agenda is like 130
megabyte file at 96k, you want to do video, you know, quadruple
that. And it's a problem for everybody. So that's the only
most of the players I think handle it. Does
this podcast handle video?
No, we don't have video currently. Nobody has requested
yet. We could. It's it's totally feasible for us to do. We just
haven't. Yes. It's just not the culture yet. I
mean, we were the way I would look at it. And I know one
professional YouTube streamer, my friend Mo, and he would say,
was it the open broadcast? OBS?
No. Yeah. In that platform? No, no, it
is a software software. He's open Broadcast System. Yeah. And
I'll confirm with him, but I think that's what most
everybody's using for streaming. So you know, whatever, whatever
comes out of there. And since it's open source, that could be
possibly a plug in module or something that does a web sub
notification, a million different things. But I guess my
point is, once we have that figured out, and we can do that
efficiently, combining the decentralized chat slash
comments with with payment, I think is the way to go.
And live. Yeah. Yeah, all that together. Exactly.
So you wish your wishes granted. Mitch, anything else? You got
three?
I guess one more thing. I won't use the third wish would be you
always
have to wish for three more, that's always wish
would be in I haven't. I'm not totally up to date with the cast
upon recommendations, but some sort of rating, like, like
popularity stats of some sort. So that we would not have to
necessarily track like pageviews with pod verse to give a ranking
system. So right now we have like just a really bare minimum
page view tracker, and whatever clips get the most page views go
up in our rankings. So it's a really crude algorithm and
improve
as messy because you can it can be gamed and all it's not good.
Yeah. Well,
one way ours works. One way to do it. If it were based on on
blockchain, on lightning payments, is not by the payment
amount, but by the number of transactions.
That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, that's good idea.
There's many different things we could potentially sort by and
yeah, that would be a valuable one. And because people are
actually putting money into it. Yeah, it would be. It'd be
harder to game.
more costly.
Yeah. having to pay for having to pay for things stops a lot of
spam. It does. It really does. Yeah.
Okay.
What else? That's it. Are we done that? You're going to keep
your third wish for another time? Sorry. That's,
that's all I got. For now.
Mitch, thank you so much for everything that you've been
doing. And for the outstanding work, it's because it pod
verse.com that fm.fm I'm sorry, yes, pod. verse.fm. It's a great
app. It's no I have four I think on my box and I somehow I have
two pod versus now on my graphene. Oh, s Lucky you. Yes.
Cool. Which one is the newest one? Whichever one the chapters
work in. Right. That's the that's the one really appreciate
you coming on and, and for being a good sport. And just being a
good guy and being a great developer. It's it's a lot of
fun to have you in the group and, and you always have
thoughtful things to say so it's really it's good to be working
with you.
Well, thanks, Adam. Yeah, it's awesome to be here. I'm so glad
you guys put this community together. We were working pretty
much in isolation for those seven years. I was like doing
our own thing. And
years of Coronavirus.
quarantine though fortunately, not that but yeah, just the
community is so great. Being able to go on the mastodon
channel. And I mean, not only podcast questions, just
developer questions, it's better than Stack Overflow for me to
just adore Smith.
Now I'm stuck on something. Yeah, I posted there and there's
like three or four people who give me solutions. It's It's
really amazing. So yeah, thank you guys for putting this
together and taking podcasting to the next level. Thank you,
Dave.
Yeah, that's I'm overdue for a return to work. So I'm mad at
this thing. More I have no more things.
All right. Joe. Thank you both very much. That's in podcasting.
2.0 for this week, we'll do another board meeting next week.
Join us there for podcasting. 2.0
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast.com
for more information